Greetings, Are you asking me can I name 1 Grand Lodge (PHO) that do not have an lineage back to African Lodge 459. My next question is that you attempt to answer the question yourself by stating that I cannot. My question to you is, have you done extensive research on this subject. I have been doing some research on this subject due to the history that exist amongst The African American Masonic Family as it relates to the organization as a whole. Some people tend to follow without thoroughly researching the topic for themselves. I have family members who are in both groups and I here the history from different perspectives. I also have read several proceedings that detail certain movements within jurisdictions that did not agree with The National Grand Lodge for certain reasons. Some motives was sovereignty, leadership, rebellion, and a few others. Most of the Grand Lodges that came into existence was a result of the National Grand Lodge. At that time there was no distinction in regards to PHA and PHO. It was one body. I recently viewed a masonic discussion on Phoenix Masonry that discussed the lineage of PHO with Alton Roundtree as its guest. He stated that "In 2012 at The Conference of Grand Masters (PHA) stated that the (PHO)National Grand Lodge can trace their lineage back to African Lodge #459. and they had continuity of operations. Now they may not be recognized but regular. I have more proceedings to read as well as producing a work entitled Parallel Proceedings during that time. Now as far as regularity amongst Grand Lodges, I think that we should research the irregularity amongst the start of some Mainstream Grand Lodges and their history. Its not that quite square and exact. This is an ongoing research study that I'm pursuing and if you have any proceedings that you would like to provide or any documentation to bring forth then please produce your work. Even The UGLE has a distorted beginning with its history are you aware of that.
Greetings my brother, I would like to know what is not true about Brother Roundtree works and what is not remotely true about the information that I posted. Mr. Roundtree is not my only source, but I mentioned him because he obviously has some facts in regards to the NGL not shutting down. I found that to be very interesting. I've been doing research on this topic off and on for quite sometime and recently decided to put forth more time in finding out information leading up to the dissension that took place with several Grand lodges as well as cross referencing proceedings prior to and after 1888. There are some proceedings that I would like to reference regarding the leave and how some jurisdictions that left the NGL wanted recognition from neighboring jurisdictions to maintain unity within the order. If you could post some of your research on the topic regarding your statements, I think it would be historically helpful.I intend to research the history because that is something I enjoy doing and often times when travelling you just can't take anybody's word on a topic as historical as this one.
Here is the cliff notes version:
The National Grand Lodge (NGL) was meant to be like a COGM to stop clandestine freemasons and spread "negro" freemasonry. Once they started to try to exercise authority over GLs, those GLs started separating themselves (becoming independent like they are today) By the time the convention of 1878 came in Delaware, hardly anybody showed up. There wasn't enough representation to even open the session (quorum) Convention after that, same thing. GL's had pulled away and became independent, thus returning sovereignty to the State GL and not having a GM over state GMs like the NGL is set up. The NGL even started putting replacement GLs in some of the states where the existing regular PHGLs are today! The structure of the NGL/PHO is irregular. The fact that they continued to operate after dying is clandestine. Also the fact the National Grand Master (NGM) put out Standard Operating Procedures (SOPs) that include goals to "Establish recognition with Modern Free Masons, Scottish Rite Masons and International Masons." ,which are known clandestine organizations, makes it even less likely that the NGL/PHO will ever be considered a regular organization or recognized by the rest of the masonic community.
Any grand lodge/lodge not recognized by The Grand Lodge of Texas is clandestine to me...
For clarification, are you saying that regular Prince Hall Grand Lodges are operating for profit or are you incorrectly assigning the predominantly black spurious organizations the name Prince Hall?
100% of men that I have met that said they were Prince Hall Masons were members of Grand Lodges located here in Texas other than The Most Worshipful Prince Hall Grand Lodge of Texas located in Fort Worth.... Like I said Clandestine.