Why is the north a place of darkness?

[hanzosbm]

In the context of Mythology, Light battles Darkness, when the Autumn approaches, the darkness seems to come from the North, because the Sun rises to a point lower in the sky daily until the Winter Solstice. and is never directly over head anywhere North of the Tropic of Cancer, at about 27 degrees Latitude

I'm not good with putting multiple quotes in a post, so I'll just restate them as I address them.

"Light battles Darkness, when the Autumn approaches, the darkness seems to come from the North"
That's true, but I think it's kind of a shakey argument. If we were to look for an example of the Light battling the Dark, we could do so with a daily reminder of the rising sun chasing away the darkness, but in that case, the west would be the place of darkness.

"is never directly over head anywhere North of the Tropic of Cancer"
That's also true, but just because the sun isn't directly overhead doesn't make one area dark. You and I both live in California. It's a little after 1pm here, if I go outside and look up to the sun, I could hardly say that it's dark in the north.

 

[hanzosbm]

I had another theory on this recently. Let's think back to our opening and closing. The sun rises in the east, sets in the west. Okay, sure, everybody knows that. But, "it is at its M. H." in the south. If we look at this as a flat earth, would this then translate into the north being under us and therefore dark?

 

[GKA]

You are correct, also, it is a difficult task to analyze mythology, can't really be done outside of the civilization where that mythology is relevant.
Most myths, which I am aware of, deal with the cycles of life beyond the apparent daily ones. that make the cycle of the seasons a prime topic within the mythical frame

 

[GKA]

I had another theory on this recently. Let's think back to our opening and closing. The sun rises in the east, sets in the west. Okay, sure, everybody knows that. But, "it is at its M. H." in the south. If we look at this as a flat earth, would this then translate into the north being under us and therefore dark?
View attachment 4707

Interesting, that could very well be a part of it.

 

[hanzosbm]

I'll freely admit that it's a pretty loose theory, but maybe it'll spark a better theory in someone else's mind.

 

[hanzosbm]

Doing some more reading today, I wanted to add some additional thoughts. W.L. Wilmshurst suggests that while the East may be the place of spiritual light, at the opposite side of that is the idea of rationale, scientific light; thus denoted by the West. At either extreme and completely lacking the other, there IS light, but it is limited. Rather, it is through the combination of the two that we see the most of the world around us. This perfect combination would be the South where the S. is at it's M.H.. However, if one were to turn their back on both types of light, one would be facing to the North, thus metaphorically making it both a place of darkness and ignorance.

 

[hanzosbm]

In the far northern summer the Sun never sets. How is the North a place of darkness?

There is another meaning.

And in the winter it is never seen, so that debate doesn't really fly here.

Nonetheless, I'm always open to new ideas; please enlighten me.

 

[dfreybur]

There is another meaning.

These are the meanings I think of when I ponder the topic. What are the meanings you think of when you ponder the topic?

1)
I rather like the fact that dark in this context means hidden. Yet what is it that is hidden? The image of the divine in the heart of each brother.

That's hidden because we may well have a very different idea of the divine than the brother next to us but we don't know that because of our landmark to not discuss sectarian religion in our assemblies.

What's dark is the light. What's hidden is what's so clear inside each of us. It's one of those wonderful contradictions that gives us our strength. We openly discriminate against atheists because we are men of faith who have decided to assemble amongst ourselves and in the process we become a force for freedom of religion in the world.

2)
There's also the view that the pedestals symbolize the phases of human life. With youth/beauty, adulthood/strength and senior/wisdom we also have a phase of darkness that comes after the wisdom. It's a darkness from whose borne no man returns.

Were we to order our pedestals differently it would symbolize both the time before birth and the time after death. To me that would convert the message to one about reincarnation which would push us too far into sectarian topics. The placement is carefully tuned on this topic.

 

[hanzosbm]

Well, as I am not a member of the SR, I'll have to take your word for it.

 

[Bloke]

I've avoided this thread because I knew what I was going to read...... but it's all very simple.

The North is the place of complete darkness, void of good, warmth and knowledge, light and growth.. because that is where we place the Secretary and Treasurer..

*smiles*

Just jokes my brothers... just a little humour...

 

[hanzosbm]

FUNNY!

Although, in both KY and CA the Secretary are in the south. Come to think of it, I don't believe we had a separate office for Treasurer in my lodge in KY, but if we did, he sat in the South also.

 

[hanzosbm]

I wanted to add to this from something I just read today. It is from a book called Masonry Dissected (the particular copy I'm reading from is dated 1730. In it is a catechism which a question and answer around this, but with a little more explanation than we're used to. They first talk about what we would call the three lesser lights. But, in addition to those, it goes on to ask:

"Have you any fix'd Lights in your Lodge?
Yes.
How many?
Three."

The author then gives a bit of a sidebar saying "These fix’d Lights are three Windows, suppos'd (tho' vainly) to be in every Room where a Lodge it held, but more properly, the four Cardinal Points according to the antique Rules of Masonry."

"How are they situated?
East, South, and West.
What are their Uses?
To light the men to, at, and from their work.
Why are there no Lights in the North?
Because the Sun darts no Rays from thence."

So, there are two possible additional aspects about why the north is dark. First, it makes it sound like there were supposed to be windows, but only 3 since the north one wouldn't have let in any light. In a closed room, this would indeed have made the north dark.
The second explanation is a bit more perplexing. "To light the men to, at, and from their work". Is this supposed to indicate that workmen were using the sun rising and setting for navigation to and from the worksite? Is it just a broad way of saying 'so they can see what they're doing'? Or is there a more esoteric reasoning?

Thoughts?

 

[Warrior1256]

There is an interesting legend of a Temple workman whose name was Cavelum. He was kinsman of King Solomon and was the house of David; thus he had high status among the other workmen. In the process of inspection of work in progress on the north wall of the Temple at a place where the north gate was to be, Hiram Abif accidentally dislodged a stone. It fell and struck Cavelum, who was killed. Hiram Abif was so overcome by grief that he ordered the north gate sealed and closed forever. (5)

This legend was once used as the basis for a degree called Fellow Craft Mark. Dr. Albert Mackey has stated that this was an early trace of the present Mark Master degree.

http://www.masonicworld.com/education/files/artfeb02/OLD LEGENDS OF HIRAM ABIFF.HTM

Sounds good.

Some orders place a chair in the north - for the hidden master

Are those Recognized Masonic Blue Lodge Orders?

I don't know if I am understanding these posts correctly but in all of the lodges I have been in there is a chair in the north that remains vacant.

 

[mrpierce17]

In my jurisdiction the north being a place of darkness has to do with the way King Solomon's temple was situated


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[Brother JC]

Is an explanation given for the vacant chair?

Not every lodge I've been in has had a chair in the north. In the ones that had them, the explanation I was given was that "Eastern Star used it."
The lodge layout in my Mother Jurisdiction specifically shows No Chair in the north.

 

[Ripcord22A]

Not every lodge I've been in has had a chair in the north. In the ones that had them, the explanation I was given was that "Eastern Star used it."
The lodge layout in my Mother Jurisdiction specifically shows No Chair in the north.

But yet both 1 and 19 have chairs there. In Oregon when u look at the floor plan the Chaplain should sit in the North...in.practice the chaplain sits in the NW.

 

[Warrior1256]

In my jurisdiction the north being a place of darkness has to do with the way King Solomon's temple was situated


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To be honest I have never thought to ask.

in.practice the chaplain sits in the NW.

In the two lodges that I belong to the chaplain sit on the floor level to the left of the WM.

 

[hanzosbm]

To be honest I have never thought to ask.

It's the same in KY. I don't have my monitor with me, but something along the lines of "it being situated so far north of the meridian..."

 

[Ripcord22A]

It's the same in KY. I don't have my monitor with me, but something along the lines of "it being situated so far north of the meridian..."

mine too.....what has always confused be about that line though is that if that were geographically correct that would put the temple in the Arctic Circle. and if it were in the Arctic Circle then the North would be a place of prolonged light as well as prolonged darkness.......

 

[hanzosbm]

mine too.....what has always confused be about that line though is that if that were geographically correct that would put the temple in the Arctic Circle. and if it were in the Arctic Circle then the North would be a place of prolonged light as well as prolonged darkness.......

Agreed. But, I think looking at some of the historical catechisms helps here. In Masonry Dissected from the year 1730, the questions of whether there are any fixed lights in the lodge is asked. The answer is yes and that there are 3. When asked for an explanation, it is explained the these fixed lights are three windows that are supposed to be found in every lodge. When asked why there is none in the north, the answer is 'because the sun darts no rays from thence'. In this case, the idea is that these windows are the form of light by which the brothers work. In the north (notice, there is no mention of the temple, only the actual lodge) the window was absent. Why? Probably because windows were very poorly insulated and if you weren't going to get much light through there, why go through the added effort and expense to add something that will only make the room colder? Furthermore, the north might allow some light in, but the rays that would truly illuminate a room would likely not extend far enough into the room to make it worthwhile.