The legend of hiram abiff

[coachn]

My lodge's Scottish ritual says: "but the remaining three being of a more atrocious and determined character than the others, persisted in their iniquitous design"

It has always interested to me that a building site with 3 GMs could initiate and pass atrocious brethren.

It has not always amused me that there exist people who steadfastly talk about blatantly patent allegory as if it were historical events, that is not until I saw how humorous this type of talk actually is when coupled with who I have met who associate with the fraternity.

 

[Winter]

It has not always amused me that there exist people who steadfastly talk about blatantly patent allegory as if it were historical events, that is not until I saw how humorous this type of talk actually is when coupled with who I have met who associate with the fraternity.

The same type of people who use religious texts as their history books.

 

[coachn]

The same type of people who use religious texts as their history books.

Exactly!

 

[Brother JC]

One, specific version of their religious texts, at that!

 

[coachn]

One, specific version of their religious texts, at that!

 

[Warrior1256]

After your last few responses, it appears you don't understand many things, and from how you responded, you may never change that.

Yep....sad but true!

 

[K4DL]

I have encountered some anti-masonic claims that Hiram is used to replace Jesus Christ and that the death, burial, and raising of Hiram was supposed to be a substitute for baptism.

I wondered if you have countered such claims and how you responded if you did.

 

[Glen Cook]

Hiram was still dead. Christ was and is alive. As noted by John Nagy, we know Hiram is dead because the word of a mason was lost. If he was not dead, the word would not be lost.

Similarly, Hiram‘s body was raised for the purpose of reburial. Christ’s body was not.

Hiram’s body was raised by men. Christ’s body was raised by his own power.

Baptism requires water. No water is used in any Masonic third degree ritual of which I am aware.

Baptism is an act of cleansing. No such claim is made by a masonic raising.

 

[coachn]

Hiram was still dead. Christ was and is alive. As noted by Hohn Nagy, we know Hiram is dead because the word of a mason was lost. If he was not dead, the word would not be lost.

Similarly, Hiram‘s body was raised for the purpose of reburial. Christ’s body was not.

Hiram’s body was raised by men. Christ’s body was raised by his own power.

Baptism requires water. No water is used in any Masonic third degree ritual of which I am aware.

Baptism is an act of cleansing. No such claim is made by a masonic raising.

 

[coachn]

I have encountered some anti-masonic claims that Hiram is used to replace Jesus Christ and that the death, burial, and raising of Hiram was supposed to be a substitute for baptism.

I wondered if you have countered such claims and how you responded if you did.

The problem is the misuse of the word "raised". Manipulators want to claim all sorts of things about Hiram and misuse the word "raised" to twist things and justify things so that the allegory seems to be something that it isn't. Paying close attention to the details, carefully applying Grammar, Logic, & Rheteric helps to dismiss these claims.

To clarify: Christ was resurrected. On the other hand, Hiram's decaying corpse allowed for only his bones to be pulled from the grave and then these same bones were reburied decently elsewhere.

 

[Winter]

Anti Masons perform some amazing mental gymnastics when they are coming up with their theories. The Jack Chick pamphlets are my favorite.

 

[Glen Cook]

Legend of the 3rd degree' God Hiram Abiff and now my time to shine. God Anonymous ;-)

 

[Winter]

I don't even want to know where you found that pic, Brother Glen! haha

 

[Winter]

Yall be clowning too much. I don't play games, sorry.

That's all you've done since you got here.

 

[Winter]

Nope. Never played games. You just do not deserve the Knowledge inside my cranium.

Fair enough. Have a nice day.

 

[Glen Cook]

Of what grand lodge are you a member?

Yall be clowning too much. I don't play games, sorry.

 

[K4DL]

If you can't handle a little Brotherly fun, you need not visit my lodge.

 

[Glen Cook]

If you can't handle a little Brotherly fun, you need not visit my lodge.

I’m not sure he is qualified to do so.

 

[Winter]

Nope. Never played games. You just do not deserve the Knowledge inside my cranium.

You showed up here, on a Masonic discussion forum, made no attempt to introduce yourself as a member of Freemasonry or someone interested in our organization, then posted a bunch of random quotes from the apocryphal Book of Wisdom with no context, and a Goat Rider pic for some strange reason. Which doesn't even address your use of the hacker group Anonymous' symbol as your profile pic. So I ask you, at what point were we supposed to take you seriously?

 

[K4DL]

You showed up here, on a Masonic discussion forum, made no attempt to introduce yourself as a member of Freemasonry or someone interested in our organization, then posted a bunch of random quotes from the apocryphal Book of Wisdom with no context, and a Goat Rider pic for some strange reason. Which doesn't even address your use of the hacker group Anonymous' symbol as your profile pic. So I ask you, at what point were we supposed to take you seriously?

Not a Mason. Cowen!