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National Supreme Council A.A.S.R.

Ripcord22A

Site Benefactor
If a territory doesn't have a GL of its own, how is it infringement? Isnt that how pretty much every GL in the states was founded? by multiple GLs founding lodges in a territory then those lodges consolidate and form a GL? I don't see how either of these things are grounds for recognition to be pulled. Especially when PH is trying so hard to get recognition from our side of the family tree. If you guys don't even recognize each other how do you expect us to?

and just for clarification I think every state needs to recognize its PH counterpart.
 

mrpierce17

KOP Council director / Lodge instructor
Premium Member
If a territory doesn't have a GL of its own, how is it infringement? Isnt that how pretty much every GL in the states was founded? by multiple GLs founding lodges in a territory then those lodges consolidate and form a GL? I don't see how either of these things are grounds for recognition to be pulled. Especially when PH is trying so hard to get recognition from our side of the family tree. If you guys don't even recognize each other how do you expect us to?

and just for clarification I think every state needs to recognize its PH counterpart.
The USVI falls under FL jurisdiction as well as Belize & Central America and btw lets not start pointing fingers a few of you guys GL' s are pulling recognition from each other because of Men's sexual preference
 

Ripcord22A

Site Benefactor
The USVI falls under FL jurisdiction as well as Belize & Central America and btw lets not start pointing fingers a few of you guys GL' s are pulling recognition from each other because of Men's sexual preference
Not pointing fingers. I don't agree with the pulling of recognition for that either. And I don't agree that GA and TN should ban gay men either. But they are a sovereign entity and can do as they want, as can PHA FL...doesn't mean I have to agree with it.

I didn't know that PHA FL covers that much ground. That must be hard on the GM, travel wise.
 

JB93

Registered User
What do you mean by this statement below? Im just trying to understand everything btw..

I didn't know that PHA FL covers that much ground. That must be hard on the GM, travel wise.[/QUOTE]
 

Ripcord22A

Site Benefactor
What do you mean by this statement below? Im just trying to understand everything btw..
I didn't know that PHA FL covers that much ground. That must be hard on the GM, travel wise.

the MWUGLoFL, which is the PHA GL of FL, covers Belize and all the countries of Central America and the USVI the GM must be traveling all the time. and the GL must haveone hell of an expense account
 
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dfreybur

Premium Member
The USVI falls under FL jurisdiction as well as Belize & Central America

So the Virgin Islands are a disputed territory that has become even more disputed. What a mess. Bureaucrats will love to deal with that paperwork.

Usually jurisdictions ask each other and grant permission and no one worries. But since neither LA nor FL have recognition within their states that's not an option. Everyone needs to complete the set on local recognition so this sort of nonsense smooths itself out. "Hey Brothers across the hall, any objection if we charter a lodge in Outer West Wawhovia?" "Nah, go for it." "Cool, we'll send a FAX to make it official." "What's a FAX?" "Never mind we'll send paper snail mail." "Or you could deliver by hand at a Stated meeting next week. Just saying."

It's very confusing to have it linked to a fraud case.
 

mrpierce17

KOP Council director / Lodge instructor
Premium Member
So the Virgin Islands are a disputed territory that has become even more disputed. What a mess. Bureaucrats will love to deal with that paperwork.

Usually jurisdictions ask each other and grant permission and no one worries. But since neither LA nor FL have recognition within their states that's not an option. Everyone needs to complete the set on local recognition so this sort of nonsense smooths itself out. "Hey Brothers across the hall, any objection if we charter a lodge in Outer West Wawhovia?" "Nah, go for it." "Cool, we'll send a FAX to make it official." "What's a FAX?" "Never mind we'll send paper snail mail." "Or you could deliver by hand at a Stated meeting next week. Just saying."

It's very confusing to have it linked to a fraud case.
Simple fix who was there first??
 

mrpierce17

KOP Council director / Lodge instructor
Premium Member
Hmmmm, isn't that the same solution which saw PH GLs and Lodges outside the mainstream of Freemasonry for hundreds of years? With hindsight, "who is first" is not always the best solution or clear cut...
Even in that situation wasn't it still the lodge that was recognized and there first for instance if a IF&AMM who aren't recognized outside of there own circle where to move into a Territory in witch there was no GL of state or PHA GL if either of the two above where to move in would they write that GL notifying them of their plans to establish lodges in that area ,a lodge that isn't recognized doesn't necessarily play by anyone's rules they make up there own as they go
 
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Ripcord22A

Site Benefactor
IF&AAM? never heard of them. if they are in irregular group then no they wouldn't. As for PHA and State GLs UGLE says that PHA is regular, they may not all recognize each other BUT.....Lets look at it like this....
Mars: no lodge there; TN PHA establishes one, Then TN GL establishes one. Since TN and TN PHA don't recognize each other its no big deal. No difference then TN PHA establishing a PHA GL in TN even though TN GL already existed- 2 regular but not mutually recognizing entities operating with in each others area. Now Both of those GLs get 3 or more constituent lodges who join together to form their own GLs. They can then decide if they will recognize each other.
Where there would be a problem is if after said MARS GL or Mars PHA GL was formed that a GL that recognized them also tried to form their own lodge with our permission. getting permission to do so is not unheard of.....
 

mrpierce17

KOP Council director / Lodge instructor
Premium Member
IF&AAM? never heard of them. if they are in irregular group then no they wouldn't. As for PHA and State GLs UGLE says that PHA is regular, they may not all recognize each other BUT.....Lets look at it like this....
Mars: no lodge there; TN PHA establishes one, Then TN GL establishes one. Since TN and TN PHA don't recognize each other its no big deal. No difference then TN PHA establishing a PHA GL in TN even though TN GL already existed- 2 regular but not mutually recognizing entities operating with in each others area. Now Both of those GLs get 3 or more constituent lodges who join together to form their own GLs. They can then decide if they will recognize each other.
Where there would be a problem is if after said MARS GL or Mars PHA GL was formed that a GL that recognized them also tried to form their own lodge with our permission. getting permission to do so is not unheard of.....
That's my point exactly and the above was a typo IF&AMM International free and accepted Modern Mason
 

mrpierce17

KOP Council director / Lodge instructor
Premium Member
In regards to two lodges that don't recognized each other it doesn't really matter but when you have two regular lodges that do recognize each other up to that point there's going to be a problem , if the GL of FL decided to start forming lodges in TN or one of their jurisdictions/ territories with out permission and I doubt they would get it being TN was already established there the new lodge should come up under GL of TN because they are already there wouldn't you think
 

Ripcord22A

Site Benefactor
Alrighty then. Pull recognition all day long in that situation. Im by no means a subject matter expert in masonic jurisprudence but I think it is justified in this case. Thanks for clearing that up Brother!
 
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