Is the end really near for freemasonry ?

[Glen Cook]

Nice picture. Not Freemasonry. Pretending that the Craft is any older than the late Middle Ages/Early Renaissance at the very earliest is wishful thinking at the best and cannot be supported no matter how much you want it to be true. The fact that our Order has adopted symbols used by earlier cultures and religions in no way implies or proves an origin in/of/or contemporary to those groups. Are you asserting that Freemasonry existed in prehistory as a divinely ordained mystical group that gave a common set of symbols to developing civilizations? You have to realize how ridiculous that theory is to legitimate Masonic scholars and historians.

Apophenia.

 

[Glen Cook]

>Apophenia.

Too smart.

Yes, the evil serpent Apopis was killed by having its body cut across and burned to ashes. Apopis was traditionally trampled under the left foot

Thanks for providing an example. The word “Apophänie” was coined by a German psychiatrist.

 

[coachn]

...The word “Apophänie” was coined by a German psychiatrist.

And for good, sound, and valid reasons too! Not like some of the other bad, unsound, and invalid reasons offered on this thread...

 

[coachn]

There is plenty of evidence for those that wish to look. You will recall that the Widow Isis and her deceased husband Osiris were brother and sister and often depicted as serpents. She is alleged to have come from Sirius - the Blazing Star

Here they are again founding China as brother and sister

Here are the square and compasses, knee to knee, hand over back, and the sun, moon and stars

Can you find Masonic references in South America, and in the rituals of the Australian Aborigines. Where do they say they got those practices?

You've shoved this before. The nonsense didn't work then. Doesn't work now. Won't work the next time you shove it, either.

 

[fkebld]

I read through this somewhat meandering thread and will add my two cents on the original topic.

I was raised 13 years ago in a small lodge in Kentucky. After my 3rd degree I was encouraged (good advice) to travel for a while and visit many lodges around Western KY (many have since closed or combined) - I found this to be refreshing for a time. But inevitably I would go to lodge, we'd raise (with barely enough members to do so), go through some drama over trivials of funding or charities, and then end at breakneck speed to eat.

The point in which I became annoyed - and this gets to the point, I think, of why we lose many members - is that I once drove to Lodge from college (about a 2 hour drive on a school night both ways) to have a communication which lasted barely 15 minutes.

I don't want to ramble on and on, but I think when we join Masonry we do so through a desire for esoteric fellowship and ritualistic allegory & once the MM is earned, there isn't much for a small lodge to do. Some larger lodges are able to offer SR or YR & have some dedicated ritual study, and I support that greatly - but study is something only a fraction of people enjoy, and I think that maybe it will always be a bleeder on the membership once MM is achieved.

I do not think Masonry will die out though, because that small percent will always keep it alive. I think the "worries" we have now are inflated and are a reaction against lowering numbers from a "heyday" period, not so much that we'll be gone next week.

 

[Winter]

I read through this somewhat meandering thread and will add my two cents on the original topic. /snip

Your post highlights an experience all to common. Rush a man through the degrees so they can be an active participant in the Lodge only for them to find out that it consists of paying the bills and maybe reading some communications from GL. And everyone scratches their hoary heads as they wonder why the young man stops attending. But the next recruitment drive will fix it!

Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk

 

[Warrior1256]

I was raised 13 years ago in a small lodge in Kentucky.

Which lodge? I am in Louisville.

 

[fkebld]

Which lodge? I am in Louisville.

Fordsville Lodge 600 (it's in Ohio County)

 

[Winter]

I have asked some very senior brethren this very question:

- When a lodge has only well-trained MMs and no candidates are in sight, what is the work of the lodge?

No brother was ever able to answer this.

The work of the EA is develop morality (right relationship). When this is sufficiently developed, the FC will be progressively admitted to the hidden mysteries of nature and science. What this is sufficiently developed the MM will be admitted to the work of the MM. But what is it?

I'm going to go ahead and call bullshit on your statement that no "very senior Brothers" have any clue what Master Masons are supposed to be doing with their time when they aren't initiating candidates. Are you actually saying on a public forum that all the Masons around you are that ridiculously dense as to not be able to come up with a single answer? Seems like another attempt by you to insert "your" version of what Masons should be doing since you have made it clear numerous times that you are the only one doing the true work of Freemasonry.

 

[coachn]

I have asked some very senior brethren this very question:

Really? What exactly are "very senior brethren"?

- When a lodge has only well-trained MMs ...

Well-trained? in what?!?!? What does this mean to you?

and no candidates are in sight, what is the work of the lodge?

That depends upon how you define "lodge". If no candidate is in sight, usually the lodge is either royally failing OR royally promoting, recruiting and soliciting prospects. Either way, what they ARE and AREN'T doing speaks volumes.

No brother was ever able to answer this.

You are likely hanging with an uninformed group of Brothers then...

The work of the EA is develop morality (right relationship).

No. The Work of the Apprentice is to move himself from youth to adulthood. To Mature! That is the SOLE purpose of Apprenticeship. Anything else is a subcategory of that effort. And since they are left to their own devices to do this, they don't do the Work and lodges "progress" them anyway.

When this is sufficiently developed, the FC will be progressively admitted to the hidden mysteries of nature and science.

LOL! FANTASY! Does YOUR lodge do this? This does not occur in any lodge that I know of. FCs are told what they "should" do, (just as EAs are!) but there is no "progressive admission" into any of that doing. It simply does not occur.

What [SIC - When???] this is sufficiently developed the MM will be admitted to the work of the MM.

So, you're admitting that your lodge is still filled with just FCs? No small wonder that you get the responses you get.

But what is it?

If no one in your lodge can answer this for you, why are you in that lodge?

What's more, if you do not know the answer to this yourself, what does this say about you?

 

[fkebld]

I've spent the 13 years since being raised contemplating the 3 Degrees and trying to develop a deeper understanding of them. Also, I've tried to commit as much to memory as possible so that when I'm out of lodge, in the normal course of my life, I can better reflect the moments back at the lodge where we imperfectly attempt to best ourselves with the recitation of allegory and moral ritual.

 

[GKA]

I will tell you what I was told
The purpose of MM is to make more Masons
Seriously.....I was told that, and the person who rold me ended up a Hiram Award winner....go figure.

 

[Glen Cook]

I will tell you what I was told
The purpose of MM is to make more Masons
Seriously.....I was told that, and the person who rold me ended up a Hiram Award winner....go figure.

Are you indicating he didn’t deserve the award?

Who selects recipients in your jurisdiction?

 

[GKA]

No, and it is not my place to decide who does deserve the Hiram award, as it is defined, the award is for contributions made to Freemasonry, I suppose increasing membership could be considered a contribution....at least by some.

 

[Glen Cook]

No, and it is not my place to decide who does deserve the Hiram award, as it is defined, the award is for contributions made to Freemasonry, I suppose increasing membership could be considered a contribution....at least by some.

And do you think that’s all he did for his lodge?

 

[GKA]

Not likely, however I know quite a few Hiram award recipients and what their contributions to Freemasonry were. I am sure that increasing membership by the person in question is his major contribution.

 

[Bloke]

I seem to have offended some brethren. So what is the work of a MMs lodge when all the brethren are trained in the ritual and no candidates are in sight?

I thought that was not a hard question, but I never found a brother that could answer it.

You and I have a slightly different view of Freemasonry, but nonetheless, ritual is simply a teaching vehicle, and as a Past Master, I still have a lot to learn from it, so simply, the work of a MM lodge with no candidates is to see each member grow...there are a lot of ways to do that, but trying to understand and master what the ritual is teaching us should always be the work...

 

[Glen Cook]

You and I have a slightly different view of Freemasonry, but nonetheless, ritual is simply a teaching vehicle, and as a Past Master, I still have a lot to learn from it, so simply, the work of a MM lodge with no candidates is to see each member grow...there are a lot of ways to do that, but trying to understand and master what the ritual is teaching us should always be the work...

Yes. We have many “trained” in the rituals, like a clever parrot, but understanding the rituals? Not so much.

So, we continue our education, we care for each other, we do good works, we help other lodges, we fellowship. In sum, we mason.

 

[coachn]

I seem to have offended some brethren.

Nah! You're confused. The responses are clearly showing how entertaining your posts are.

So what is the work of a MMs lodge when all the brethren are trained in the ritual and no candidates are in sight?

Fundraising to reduce overhead expenses! Didn't you get the memo?

I thought that was not a hard question, but I never found a brother that could answer it.

It isn't a difficult answer either! Fundraising! Maybe you're not hearing it...

 

[coachn]

>The purpose of MM is to make more Masons

That has not gone so well.

According to who? The purpose is as stated and the purpose of the lodge has been underway for over 300 years now. If you don't think that has gone well, what is your measure of "well"?

But my question was slightly different: what is the work of a MMs lodge when all the brethren are trained in the ritual and no candidates are in sight?

FUNDRAISING!

The issue is whether the brethren in lodge formation have work beyond reproducing themselves

Yes... fundraising...

Personally I think that the work of a lodge of MM is made quite clear in the EA TB.

Nah! That's something that clearly is done on the side, individually. If it were the actual work of the lodge, lodges across the globe would have been doing it for the last 300 years. Clearly they have not.[/quote][/QUOTE]