# Socialism vs. Capitalism: Which is the Moral System?



## JTM (Feb 9, 2010)

From: http://lilt.ilstu.edu/rrpope/rrpopepwd/articles/socvcap.html

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]C. Bradley          Thompson is Assistant Professor of Political Science at Ashland University          and Coordinator of Publications and Special Programs at the John M. Ashbrook          Center for Public Affairs.[/FONT]

Noteworthy clips:



> [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Socialism          is the social system which institutionalizes envy and self-sacrifice:          It is the social system which uses compulsion and the organized violence          of the State to expropriate wealth from the producer class for its redistribution          to the parasitical class.



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> [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Capitalism          is the only just system because the sole criterion that determines the          value of thing exchanged is the free, voluntary, universal judgement of          the consumer. Coercion and fraud are anathema to the free-market system.[/FONT]


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> [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Welfare,          regulations, taxes, tariffs, minimum-wage laws are all immoral because          they use the coercive power of the state to organize human choice and          action; they're immoral because they inhibit or deny the freedom to choose          how we live our lives; they're immoral because they deny our right to          live as autonomous moral agents; and they're immoral because they deny          our essential humanity. If you think this is hyperbole, stop paying your taxes          for a year or two and see what happens.[/FONT]


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> [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The requirements          for success in a free society demand that ordinary citizens order their          lives in accordance with certain virtues--namely, rationality, independence,          industriousness, prudence, frugality, etc. In a free capitalist society individuals must choose for          themselves how they will order their lives and the values they will pursue.          Under socialism, most of life's decisions are made for you.[/FONT]


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> [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]According          to socialist doctrine, there is a limited amount of wealth in the world          that must be divided equally between all citizens. One person's gain under          such a system is another's loss.[/FONT]


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> [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]According          to the capitalist teaching, wealth has an unlimited growth potential and          the fruits of one's labor should be retained in whole by the producer.          But unlike socialism, one person's gain is everybody's gain in the capitalist          system. Wealth is distributed unequally but the ship of wealth rises for          everyone.[/FONT]


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> [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]As a consequence          of our sixty-year experiment with a mixed economy and the welfare state,          America has created two new classes of citizens. The first is a debased          class of dependents whose means of survival is contingent upon the forced          expropriation of wealth from working citizens by a professional class          of government social planners. The forgotten man and woman in all of this          is the quiet, hardworking, law-abiding, taxpaying citizen who minds his          or her own business but is forced to work for the government and their          serfs.[/FONT]


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## drapetomaniac (Feb 9, 2010)

> While every ox and horse can find work, and is worth being fed, it is not always so with man. To be employed, to have a chance to work, at anything like fair wages, becomes the great engrossing object of a man's life.
> 
> The capitalist can live without employing the laborer, and discharges him whenever that labor ceases to be profitable. At the moment when the weather is most inclement; provisions dearest, and rents highest, he turns him oft' to starve.
> 
> ...



--Albert Pike - Morals and Dogma


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## JTM (Feb 9, 2010)

> while, in a great, free, Republican State, in the full vigor of its youth and strength, one person in every aeventeen is a pauper receiving charity.



hrm?


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## drapetomaniac (Feb 9, 2010)

Here's a good video for a history of The Corporation and ethics.

http://www.hulu.com/watch/118169/the-corporation

Even if you disagree with its ethical calls, the history of corporate development from the founding fathers days to now is interesting.


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## JTM (Feb 9, 2010)

oh, i've seen "the corporation" and agree.  it's this manipulation of a mixed economy that allowed it, though.  not capitalism.


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## drapetomaniac (Feb 9, 2010)

Neither system has an inherent ethical system built in.  You need moderation in either - and I think the "socialist urges" in this country are a reaction to the hyper-capitalism which has been permitted.

A lot of the "leftists"  elected in Latin America in the past decade are heads of businesses or have economics degrees, experience or backgrounds.  They come with moderation built in.

I use to debate with a co-worker on a regular basis and in many instances he would end with "but everyone does it" or "that's how businesses run" or "its legal."  He was right, but I finally realized we were discussing ethical issues and capitalism isn't a morality in its own. You had to include it. And those were the situations we were discussing, where morality fell by the wayside and the legalistic application of the process became its own defense.  

Because it was, it was good.


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## HKTidwell (Feb 11, 2010)

Hey ya'll are missing the "New" type of government.  It is called Market Socialist, Geez not sure how many times you can rebrand the same screwed up mentality before people get tired of buying into the same failed Socialism of yesteryear.  

By the way the reason we have the capitalism that we do is due to the socialist influence.  I'll use a recent example, bank bailout.  If a business is greedy and does bad business practices then they should fail and so should the people backing them.  Sorry guys nobody is to big to fail, the failures of people, companies, etc allow for new growth, new ideas, and better innovation.


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## drapetomaniac (Feb 11, 2010)

I think people are too big to fail - but that's because they violate the anti-trust measures of capitalism.  

Anyone so big they can cripple the economy when they fail is a monopoly or too close to being one.


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## JTM (Feb 12, 2010)

drapetomaniac said:


> Neither system has an inherent ethical system built in.  You need moderation in either - and I think the "socialist urges" in this country are a reaction to the hyper-capitalism which has been permitted.
> 
> A lot of the "leftists"  elected in Latin America in the past decade are heads of businesses or have economics degrees, experience or backgrounds.  They come with moderation built in.
> 
> ...


 what this article is claiming (and provides extensive argument for) is that the moderation is inherent in capitalism.


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