# Concerned Wife



## JonnyMM

Greetings Brethren

I'm in a bit of a pickle regarding the craft and my now wife. She's had her mind polluted by the many growing conspiracy theories doing the rounds regarding the craft.  I was raised to MM last year and had full intentions on progressing into the Royal Arch. She's since withdrew her support off the back of some web site that claims the craft is a "marriage wrecking ball" I've read this material and tried to talk her round, but alas no she's under the impression that the craft is a sinister organisation hiding all sorts of dark secrets and practices. Despite my best efforts she won't allow me to show her the truth of the matter...she refuses to attend any functions, she refuses to speak with other masons. She was keen to begin with but she says is not what she thought it was. I had issues during my research as I too was caught up in the tangled web of lies you can find on the internet. I've told her many times people fear what they don't understand. I wish to take my Masonic career further but of course my wife would need to be on board. If I have to choose between her and the craft of course she'll win. She's said she's ok with me staying in the blue lodge but said it would break her heart if I went into the Royal Arch. I'm clutching at straws here but I was wondering if anyone had had a similar experience? If so how did you manage it? 

S&F 
Bro Jon Mack 
Commercial Travellers Lodge #3700
United Grand Lodge of England 


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## JonnyMM

Pardon my manners gents...


I'm new here! 

I'm Brother Jon Mack 
Commercial Travellers Lodge #3700 Newcastle 
United Grand Lodge of England 


Sent from my iPhone using My Freemasonry


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## goomba

Slightly different (and by slightly I mean REALLY different), but my father in-law was against me becoming a Mason.  About 5 years later he saw a Masonic funeral service and it changed his mind.  So time worked for me. 

If it had been my wife I don't know how I would have reacted.  Wish I could be more helpful brother.


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## JonnyMM

goomba said:


> Slightly different (and by slightly I mean REALLY different), but my father in-law was against me becoming a Mason.  About 5 years later he saw a Masonic funeral service and it changed his mind.  So time worked for me.
> 
> If it had been my wife I don't know how I would have reacted.  Wish I could be more helpful brother.



Many thanks none the less...clearly I can't give up on my wife and I'd hate to have to turn my back on my family legacy...I come from a long line of Freemasons. She's convinced it changes people...one lad who was raised around the same time I was had a nervous breakdown from the constant finger pointing that goes on in every conspiracy theory...."it's always the masons to blame" too much illuminati rubbish doing the rounds...it's got her worried sick and me backed into a corner. 


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## Bloke

JonnyMM said:


> Many thanks none the less...clearly I can't give up on my wife and I'd hate to have to turn my back on my family legacy...I come from a long line of Freemasons. She's convinced it changes people...one lad who was raised around the same time I was had a nervous breakdown from the constant finger pointing that goes on in every conspiracy theory...."it's always the masons to blame" too much illuminati rubbish doing the rounds...it's got her worried sick and me backed into a corner.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using My Freemasonry



Welcome to the forum and sorry to hear you have this trouble.

Has she read material like this http://www.lodgedevotion.net/devotionnews/education-editorial-articles/reflections-of-a-mason-s-wife

The problem is, it's hard to rationalise with someone who's being irrational. The simple truth is, fear of Freemasonry is irrational. Do you know where she got the idea we're an evil bunch of guys ?

She is right on one thing- Freemasonry does change people, hopefully for the better  That's the whole point !

I had a friend who's wife was not against it, but wanted nothing to do with Freemasonry. My GF wanted to go to a restaurant with a banquet so I got  group of friends together including this friend and his wife. About 14 of us.... Has a wonderful time.. very enjoyable. Afterwards he told her every male there except one was a Freemason. She changed her mind and she attends several functions a year (but always checks my GF will be there, because she wants to hang out with her friend... which she made via Freemasonry.)... It was important we didn't talk "shop" ie Lodge over dinner.... but there was guys from two lodges there.. many of whom did not know the others were Brothers... Likewise, my GF was hassling me to organise breakfast the otherwise with a couple who lived near where we were visting; same deal, she met them through Freemasonry... mind you, she met me through Freemasonry because she had good friends in my lodge..

PS - the guy who was not a Freemason but went to that dinner .... he became an EA about 6 years after that dinner, and we made him a MM last meeting.


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## JonnyMM

Bloke said:


> Welcome to the forum and sorry to hear you have this trouble.
> 
> Has she read material like this http://www.lodgedevotion.net/devotionnews/education-editorial-articles/reflections-of-a-mason-s-wife
> 
> The problem is, it's hard to rationalise with someone who's being irrational. The simple truth is, fear of Freemasonry is irrational. Do you know where she got the idea we're an evil bunch of guys ?
> 
> She is right on one thing- Freemasonry does change people, hopefully for the better  That's the whole point !
> 
> I had a friend who's wife was not against it, but wanted nothing to do with Freemasonry. My GF wanted to go to a restaurant with a banquet so I got  group of friends together including this friend and his wife. About 14 of us.... Has a wonderful time.. very enjoyable. Afterwards he told her every male there except one was a Freemason. She changed her mind and she attends several functions a year (but always checks my GF will be there, because she wants to hang out with her friend... which she made via Freemasonry.)... It was important we didn't talk "shop" ie Lodge over dinner.... but there was guys from two lodges there.. many of whom did not know the others were Brothers... Likewise, my GF was hassling me to organise breakfast the otherwise with a couple who lived near where we were visting; same deal, she met them through Freemasonry... mind you, she met me through Freemasonry because she had good friends in my lodge..
> 
> PS - the guy who was not a Freemason but went to that dinner .... he became an EA about 6 years after that dinner, and we made him a MM last meeting.



I've just read through that link and I wish she had been reading such material...this is what I'm up against 

https://www.henrymakow.com/freemasonry-marriage-wrecking-ball.html 

There are many sites I've found including one dedicated to the "victims of Freemasons" even forums where they paint some very grim pictures of what we're all about. I'm working on her to get her to come and see first hand but she wants nothing to do with it. Our young son (13) won't be allowed follow me into the craft...my father and grandfather were both proud Mark Master Masons... now my legacy dies for misinformation...she studied with me through all my degrees and has a good understanding of symbolism...I proposed to her at the famous Rosslyn Chapel in Scotland....I'm sure you are all aware of the Masonic connection to this building. I wish to follow my father and his before him but I risk breaking her heart and I can't do that. Unfortunately conspiracy theories have got the better of her...I've told her theres no facts just speculation...but she's standing firm in me not progressing into the Arch...I've informed my father of her stance on the matter and he's disappointed to say the least. My father never speaks of the craft...my mum of course was aware of his membership but knows little else. She says it's more fool me for telling her too much...was I wrong to share this with her? Should I have kept it to myself? Her curiosity has driven her to the darkest corners of the internet...and this is the end result.  


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## Bloke

JonnyMM said:


> I've just read through that link and I wish she had been reading such material...this is what I'm up against
> 
> https://www.henrymakow.com/freemasonry-marriage-wrecking-ball.html
> 
> There are many sites I've found including one dedicated to the "victims of Freemasons" even forums where they paint some very grim pictures of what we're all about. I'm working on her to get her to come and see first hand but she wants nothing to do with it. Our young son (13) won't be allowed follow me into the craft...my father and grandfather were both proud Mark Master Masons... now my legacy dies for misinformation...she studied with me through all my degrees and has a good understanding of symbolism...I proposed to her at the famous Rosslyn Chapel in Scotland....I'm sure you are all aware of the Masonic connection to this building. I wish to follow my father and his before him but I risk breaking her heart and I can't do that. Unfortunately conspiracy theories have got the better of her...I've told her theres no facts just speculation...but she's standing firm in me not progressing into the Arch...I've informed my father of her stance on the matter and he's disappointed to say the least. My father never speaks of the craft...my mum of course was aware of his membership but knows little else. She says it's more fool me for telling her too much...was I wrong to share this with her? Should I have kept it to myself? Her curiosity has driven her to the darkest corners of the internet...and this is the end result.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using My Freemasonry



I've seen that video in many places. If a lodge did that; they'd likely get their warrant pulled by their Grand Lodge if regular.

There is a real issue here; your wife trusts what she reads on the Internet more than what you tell her.

There are many lists of famous freemasons on the web, does she really think that political, social and religious leaders are involved in the sort of thing she's reading about false accusations made against the Craft ?


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## JonnyMM

Bloke said:


> I've seen that video in many places. If a lodge did that; they'd likely get their warrant pulled by their Grand Lodge if regular.
> 
> There is a real issue here; your wife trusts what she reads on the Internet more than what you tell her.
> 
> There are many lists of famous freemasons on the web, does she really think that political, social and religious leaders are involved in the sort of thing she's reading about false accusations made against the Craft ?



God only knows! I think it's mostly down to a lad from my lodge who had a full nervous breakdown...he got himself all caught up this New World Order theory....convinced himself it's was real and being driven by the craft across the world. He was spoken to several times by different people on the topic and told to leave it alone. I told him he appeared to be in the craft for the wrong reason...but like me his father was a mason and his before him. There's so much misinformation out there...and because we won't enter into debate with non masons we get tarred with a rather unpleasant brush. She's seemed to develop a very sinister opinion or an organisation I hold so dear! And I've no idea why...she's said she's seen it do bad things to people. I'll be honest I was offered little guidance or support on my journey through the blue lodge...I had little to no understanding what it was all about. So I took to old books to find the answers I was looking for...but researching anything Masonic you're met with some of the most disturbing things...now having spent some time in the lodge and held discussions with men I know and respect I know the truth...but because it's not on YouTube I can't convince her. I'm sure this will sort itself out as we both support each other in everything we do....she says she doesn't want to lose me to the craft...as many others have! 


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## coachn

JonnyMM said:


> ...I'm in a bit of a pickle regarding the craft and my now wife. *She's had her mind polluted ...*
> 
> ...If I have to choose between her and the craft of course she'll win. She's said* she's ok with me staying* in the blue lodge *but said it would break her heart* if I went into the Royal Arch. I'm clutching at straws here but I was wondering if anyone had had a similar experience? *If so how did you manage it?*
> 
> S&F
> Bro Jon Mack
> Commercial Travellers Lodge #3700
> United Grand Lodge of England



Bro. Jon,

You may not want to read this.  Be prepared for major bluntness...

<coach turns on "blunt mode">

FAIR WARNING (AGAIN!)... Brace yourself: 

_There are bigger problems here than the organization that you chose to join._​
*How do you manage this? *

*Short Version: *_Just Stop It!  You can't "fix" your wife.  The more you try, the less that you'll have a healthy marriage.
_
*Long Version:  *You're making her problems your problems.  She has you in fear as a result because you believe Freemasonry threatens your relationship and marriage; _*It Doesn't!*_  But she wants you to believe that Freemasonry is the problem; *It Isn't!* 

Consider the following:

_She is scared because she has chosen to be scared; nothing you do can change that so stop trying to fix her.  *Be aware she may be wanting you to play the fix it game and get angry with you if you don't play along.*_
_She has got a bigger problem and it's not fear; it's a control issue.  *Be aware that she may be oblivious to this.*_
_She has power over you by expressing this fear and it is being used to manipulate you and your relationship.  *Be aware that she may not understand why she is doing all this.* _
_She is also telling you in a very subversive and underhanded way that she DOES NOT TRUST YOU OR YOUR JUDGEMENT.  If she did, she would not have this insanity polluting your relationship.  *Be aware that this is foundationally the biggest issue of all and that she may have no clue that she is sending you this message of mistrust.*_
She is lying to you (and likely to herself) about her being _*"okay with [you] staying...".*_ _*Don't buy into it, but be aware she may be incapable of seeing the truth due to her upbringing.*_
You would do well to explore The Drama Triangle!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karpman_drama_triangle
http://www.johngouletmft.com/Breaking_The_Drama_Triangle_Newest.pdf
BTW - The brother who snapped and had a nervous breakdown: _That was going to occur whether he joined Freemasonry or any other organization, or not.  He was a booby trap with a hair trigger ready for the right condition to go off.  All the signs were there and it is a shame he made it through the West Gate.  *Those who guarded it do not know what they are doing.*

_
<coach turns off "blunt mode">

You have _some serious things to consider here_, and they _are not_ related to Freemasonry.

I wish you well!

F&S,

Coach


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## Brother JC

You won't always hear this from me but Coach N is spot on. There are deeper issues here than you at lodge. And that kid? Yeah, he wound himself into that ball, it had nothing to do with the Craft.


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## coachn

Brother JC said:


> You won't always hear this from me but Coach N is spot on. There are deeper issues here than you at lodge. And that kid? Yeah, he wound himself into that ball, it had nothing to do with the Craft.


What?!?!  No "LIKE"?!?!?!


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## rpbrown

coachn said:


> Bro. Jon,
> 
> You may not want to read this.  Be prepared for major bluntness...
> 
> <coach turns on "blunt mode">
> 
> FAIR WARNING (AGAIN!)... Brace yourself:
> 
> _There are bigger problems here than the organization that you chose to join._​
> *How do you manage this? *
> 
> *Short Version: *_Just Stop It!  You can't "fix" your wife.  The more you try, the less that you'll have a healthy marriage.
> _
> *Long Version:  *You're making her problems your problems.  She has you in fear as a result because you believe Freemasonry threatens your relationship and marriage; _*It Doesn't!*_  But she wants you to believe that Freemasonry is the problem; *It Isn't!*
> 
> Consider the following:
> 
> _She is scared because she has chosen to be scared; nothing you do can change that so stop trying to fix her.  *Be aware she may be wanting you to play the fix it game and get angry with you if you don't play along.*_
> _She has got a bigger problem and it's not fear; it's a control issue.  *Be aware that she may be oblivious to this.*_
> _She has power over you by expressing this fear and it is being used to manipulate you and your relationship.  *Be aware that she may not understand why she is doing all this.* _
> _She is also telling you in a very subversive and underhanded way that she DOES NOT TRUST YOU OR YOUR JUDGEMENT.  If she did, she would not have this insanity polluting your relationship.  *Be aware that this is foundationally the biggest issue of all and that she may have no clue that she is sending you this message of mistrust.*_
> She is lying to you (and likely to herself) about her being _*"okay with [you] staying...".*_ _*Don't buy into it, but be aware she may be incapable of seeing the truth due to her upbringing.*_
> You would do well to explore The Drama Triangle!
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karpman_drama_triangle
> http://www.johngouletmft.com/Breaking_The_Drama_Triangle_Newest.pdf
> BTW - The brother who snapped and had a nervous breakdown: _That was going to occur whether he joined Freemasonry or any other organization, or not.  He was a booby trap with a hair trigger ready for the right condition to go off.  All the signs were there and it is a shame he made it through the West Gate.  *Those who guarded it do not know what they are doing.*
> 
> _
> <coach turns off "blunt mode">
> 
> You have _some serious things to consider here_, and they _are not_ related to Freemasonry.
> 
> I wish you well!
> 
> F&S,
> 
> Coach



I agree with Coach on this. A couple of other things to think about:
(1) Any of the appendant bodies of Masonry will take additional time away from your family. I am not trying to sway you either way but you said she was okay with the blue lodge. I know as I was going through the chairs and especially when I became the WM, time at the blue lodge seemed to be required more and more. It is quite a bit less now that I am a PM but we meet at least once a week for study/practice and once a month for Stated. I am a SR but do not attend very many functions of the SR because of time constraints away from my family.
(2) As for your son, once he becomes old enough to become a part of Masonry, then he is an adult and should be allowed to make his own decisions. 

Just don't push it on her or him or you will be fighting a losing battle on all fronts.

Good luck


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## Brother JC

coachn said:


> What?!?!  No "LIKE"?!?!?!


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## Bro. Stewart P.M.

coachn said:


> What?!?!  No "LIKE"?!?!?!




LOL, even I hesitated before I clicked it.


Stewart M. Owings, 32 °, P∴ M∴
Lead Moderator


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## Warrior1256

coachn said:


> Bro. Jon,
> 
> You may not want to read this.  Be prepared for major bluntness...
> 
> <coach turns on "blunt mode">
> 
> FAIR WARNING (AGAIN!)... Brace yourself:
> 
> _There are bigger problems here than the organization that you chose to join._​
> *How do you manage this? *
> 
> *Short Version: *_Just Stop It!  You can't "fix" your wife.  The more you try, the less that you'll have a healthy marriage.
> _
> *Long Version:  *You're making her problems your problems.  She has you in fear as a result because you believe Freemasonry threatens your relationship and marriage; _*It Doesn't!*_  But she wants you to believe that Freemasonry is the problem; *It Isn't!*
> 
> Consider the following:
> 
> _She is scared because she has chosen to be scared; nothing you do can change that so stop trying to fix her.  *Be aware she may be wanting you to play the fix it game and get angry with you if you don't play along.*_
> _She has got a bigger problem and it's not fear; it's a control issue.  *Be aware that she may be oblivious to this.*_
> _She has power over you by expressing this fear and it is being used to manipulate you and your relationship.  *Be aware that she may not understand why she is doing all this.* _
> _She is also telling you in a very subversive and underhanded way that she DOES NOT TRUST YOU OR YOUR JUDGEMENT.  If she did, she would not have this insanity polluting your relationship.  *Be aware that this is foundationally the biggest issue of all and that she may have no clue that she is sending you this message of mistrust.*_
> She is lying to you (and likely to herself) about her being _*"okay with [you] staying...".*_ _*Don't buy into it, but be aware she may be incapable of seeing the truth due to her upbringing.*_
> You would do well to explore The Drama Triangle!
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karpman_drama_triangle
> http://www.johngouletmft.com/Breaking_The_Drama_Triangle_Newest.pdf
> BTW - The brother who snapped and had a nervous breakdown: _That was going to occur whether he joined Freemasonry or any other organization, or not.  He was a booby trap with a hair trigger ready for the right condition to go off.  All the signs were there and it is a shame he made it through the West Gate.  *Those who guarded it do not know what they are doing.*
> 
> _
> <coach turns off "blunt mode">
> 
> You have _some serious things to consider here_, and they _are not_ related to Freemasonry.
> 
> I wish you well!
> 
> F&S,
> 
> Coach


Yep, gotta agree!


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## Bloke

coachn said:


> Bro. Jon,
> 
> You may not want to read this.  Be prepared for major bluntness...
> 
> <coach turns on "blunt mode">
> 
> FAIR WARNING (AGAIN!)... Brace yourself:
> 
> _There are bigger problems here than the organization that you chose to join._​
> *How do you manage this? *
> 
> *Short Version: *_Just Stop It!  You can't "fix" your wife.  The more you try, the less that you'll have a healthy marriage.
> _
> *Long Version:  *You're making her problems your problems.  She has you in fear as a result because you believe Freemasonry threatens your relationship and marriage; _*It Doesn't!*_  But she wants you to believe that Freemasonry is the problem; *It Isn't!*
> 
> Consider the following:
> 
> _She is scared because she has chosen to be scared; nothing you do can change that so stop trying to fix her.  *Be aware she may be wanting you to play the fix it game and get angry with you if you don't play along.*_
> _She has got a bigger problem and it's not fear; it's a control issue.  *Be aware that she may be oblivious to this.*_
> _She has power over you by expressing this fear and it is being used to manipulate you and your relationship.  *Be aware that she may not understand why she is doing all this.* _
> _She is also telling you in a very subversive and underhanded way that she DOES NOT TRUST YOU OR YOUR JUDGEMENT.  If she did, she would not have this insanity polluting your relationship.  *Be aware that this is foundationally the biggest issue of all and that she may have no clue that she is sending you this message of mistrust.*_
> She is lying to you (and likely to herself) about her being _*"okay with [you] staying...".*_ _*Don't buy into it, but be aware she may be incapable of seeing the truth due to her upbringing.*_
> You would do well to explore The Drama Triangle!
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karpman_drama_triangle
> http://www.johngouletmft.com/Breaking_The_Drama_Triangle_Newest.pdf
> BTW - The brother who snapped and had a nervous breakdown: _That was going to occur whether he joined Freemasonry or any other organization, or not.  He was a booby trap with a hair trigger ready for the right condition to go off.  All the signs were there and it is a shame he made it through the West Gate.  *Those who guarded it do not know what they are doing.*
> 
> _
> <coach turns off "blunt mode">
> 
> You have _some serious things to consider here_, and they _are not_ related to Freemasonry.
> 
> I wish you well!
> 
> F&S,
> 
> Coach



I'm another one who thinks Coach is spot on. It might just be the most important post I've seen him make. It might be "blunt", but I think it's true and correct, I'd listen Bro Jonny


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## Bloke

coachn said:


> What?!?!  No "LIKE"?!?!?!


I still think we need a double like button for posts like the one you made above..


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## JJones

Coach has this one, especially the judgment call.

My advice is this: if your marriage is otherwise healthy and you are both happy then just let it go. Otherwise Freemasonry being a 'wrecking ball for marriage' will become a self-fulfilling prophecy.


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## Matt L

Coach, that's money.  Bro. John, good luck.


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## JonnyMM

Lads...many thanks for your time and feedback regarding this somewhat sensitive issue. All points taken on board....we don't have any issues...we don't fight/argue on anything we work together to fix issues. I'm working on her but till then in the blue lodge I stay...I thank you all again for your time. Bro Jonny 


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## Warrior1256

Bloke said:


> I still think we need a double like button for posts like the one you made above..


Lol, True!


JJones said:


> My advice is this: if your marriage is otherwise healthy and you are both happy then just let it go. Otherwise Freemasonry being a 'wrecking ball for marriage' will become a self-fulfilling prophecy.


True.


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## jermy Bell

Every time there is degree work, my wife and mother in law tell me and my father in law to go, leave ,see ya later. Have a good time. Lol but then again my mother in law was in eastern star, and my wife is mother advisor of the rainbow girls. And my father in law and I are also on the rainbow board of advisors.


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## Warrior1256

jermy Bell said:


> Every time there is degree work, my wife and mother in law tell me and my father in law to go, leave ,see ya later. Have a good time. Lol but then again my mother in law was in eastern star, and my wife is mother advisor of the rainbow girls. And my father in law and I are also on the rainbow board of advisors.


Very cool concerning this family tradition!


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## TonyStarks357

rpbrown said:


> I agree with Coach on this. A couple of other things to think about:
> (1) Any of the appendant bodies of Masonry will take additional time away from your family. I am not trying to sway you either way but you said she was okay with the blue lodge. I know as I was going through the chairs and especially when I became the WM, time at the blue lodge seemed to be required more and more. It is quite a bit less now that I am a PM but we meet at least once a week for study/practice and once a month for Stated. I am a SR but do not attend very many functions of the SR because of time constraints away from my family.
> (2) As for your son, once he becomes old enough to become a part of Masonry, then he is an adult and should be allowed to make his own decisions.
> 
> Just don't push it on her or him or you will be fighting a losing battle on all fronts.
> 
> Good luck




Coach and RP have it covered.  One thing I wondered about is who came from the lodge during your investigation, to speak with you and your wife.  Any insecurities should have been covered during that meeting, before you were initiated.  Oh, and YES, the Blue Lodge will require more of your time than any other house of Masonry. I can attest to it.

Sr Deacon, Pikes Peak Lodge No. 5
Ill 2nd Lt Commander, Pikes Peak Consistory No. 81


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## CLewey44

This is a side effect of freedom of speech and information overload. People can get on the internet and say whatever they want, dress it in a bow (fancy websites and 'references') and call it fact. The difficult part is deciding what is truth and what is malarkey.


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## Glen Cook

TonyStarks357 said:


> Coach and RP have it covered.  One thing I wondered about is who came from the lodge during your investigation, to speak with you and your wife.  Any insecurities should have been covered during that meeting, before you were initiated.  Oh, and YES, the Blue Lodge will require more of your time than any other house of Masonry. I can attest to it.
> 
> Sr Deacon, Pikes Peak Lodge No. 5
> Ill 2nd Lt Commander, Pikes Peak Consistory No. 81


Well, it can control more time, depending on the lodge and your role. AASR, Chapter and Rectified Rite  each take more of my time.


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## Warrior1256

CLewey44 said:


> This is a side effect of freedom of speech and information overload. People can get on the internet and say whatever they want, dress it in a bow (fancy websites and 'references') and call it fact. The difficult part is deciding what is truth and what is malarkey.


Very true!


Glen Cook said:


> AASR, Chapter and Rectified Rite each take more of my time.


AASR and Commandery for me.


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## Mike Martin

Hi Jon,
You could always suggest that she might like to join an English Masonic Forum (there's one in my Sig file) where she could ask her questions anonymously and get answers from other Freemasons to find out if she's barking up the wrong tree or not.


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