# EA's serving on committees?



## JJones (Aug 8, 2011)

I haven't been able to find anything about this in the law book but this just doesn't seem right to me.  It seems (to me) that EAs should be spending all of their Masonic time trying to learn whatever is required of their degree and not be occupied with any duties related to serving on a committee.

What do you gentlemen think?


----------



## JTM (Aug 8, 2011)

noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo


----------



## choppersteve03 (Aug 8, 2011)

No ea,they need to put there efforts towards becoming a mm,not comitties.


----------



## Dow Mathis (Aug 8, 2011)

Holey Underwear, Batman!  Certainly not.  an EA wouldn't have enough knowledge of the workings of the lodge to be of any real use.  My gosh, I was raised in May and breathed a silent sigh of relief to learn that I WASN'T selected for a committee this year.  Things are still too dim for me at this point.  Give it a year (or more) to sit, watch, and learn how things work first.


----------



## jwhoff (Aug 8, 2011)

So ... I get the feeling you've come across this.  Not where? But in what capacity?


----------



## Mac (Aug 8, 2011)

Brethren, I'm actually kind of surprised by these opinions.  I'm not saying I'd like to be a slave driver, and put the new brother straight into the quarries, but if you have a graphic designer come into the Lodge, and he volunteers to be part of your web or publications committee, would you honestly tell him "no, you can only handle one thing at a time... focus on your EA memory work"?


----------



## JJones (Aug 8, 2011)

I guess that's sort of the question.  The brother in question isn't on a major committee and he was sort of doing the job anyhow, I kind of wonder if it's some sort of a gray area or I'm just strict?



> So ... I get the feeling you've come across this. Not where? But in what capacity?



Due to one of our projects we have going on involving the community, the brother was put on the committee as a sort of advisor.  Again, this is something he was doing anyhow but the whole reason this came up is because I had never heard of an EA serving on a committee before.


----------



## Nate Riley (Aug 8, 2011)

I could see where it would be OK depending on the committee and the Brother's abilities/positions in life.  

With the number of EAs who "fall off the wagon", creating a program that gets EAs and FCs involved Lodge activites would be a good idea.  Particularly for Brother's who are having trouble with the memory work, being more plugged into the Lodge might keep their enthusiam up.  I also like the idea of getting EAs and FCs involved in working in the degrees.

While is not necessarily my stance, some might make the argument that taking a few months to advance is a good thing. Although I am not certain of it, I understand that in some jurisdictions (Europe maybe) the required time between degrees is longer as a rule.


----------



## Preston DuBose (Aug 9, 2011)

My first job out of college was for an old laboratory supply company. It was said that the founder (long since deceased) was dead-set against publishing a catalog. He thought the customers should ask his sales people if his company carried a given item, then the salesman would say yes or no and for how much. "If we publish a catalog, then our competitors will know what we sell and our prices," he said. "Yes, but so will our customers!" was the counter-argument.

I know Brothers (whom I greatly admire and respect) who feel that we should hold back until the man has become a Master Mason. That if we share the "good stuff" too early, the brother may feel no call to keep advancing. My personal opinion is that if an EA or FC feels genuinely connected with the Lodge, the pressure of the time limits imposed by the Grand Lodge will keep them from tarrying too long. The greater danger is from EAs and FCs dropping out altogether, not losing interest in advancing. 

A sound argument can be made that EAs and FCs should be focusing 100% of their memory work. Memory work of any sort is easier when you have the luxury of practicing several times a week. Trying to advance in the work by practicing only once a week (or less) is considerably more difficult, so in that respect filling a person's time with other activities that _take time away from practice_ is doing that individual a disservice. 

However, I think a more reasoned approach would be to look at the individual and assess their capabilities rather than setting forth an "Always" or "Never". Some may be busy enough that the memory work alone will strain their time, whereas others may have time on their hands and be eager to pitch in. There are always opportunities to become involved in the Lodge that don't interfere with practice time. Some committee work may be time-consuming, but other work might be largely a matter of making a phone call or sending an email. I see committees as an excellent opportunity to pair an EA or FC with seasoned members other than their instructor. It's always easier to get to know someone in a small group, and working on a shared goal helps members develop stronger bonds. Those bonds are a great strength of our Fraternity, and in my opinion they should be cultivated wherever and whenever possible.


----------



## Brent Heilman (Aug 9, 2011)

Preston DuBose said:


> My first job out of college was for an old laboratory supply company. It was said that the founder (long since deceased) was dead-set against publishing a catalog. He thought the customers should ask his sales people if his company carried a given item, then the salesman would say yes or no and for how much. "If we publish a catalog, then our competitors will know what we sell and our prices," he said. "Yes, but so will our customers!" was the counter-argument.
> 
> I know Brothers (whom I greatly admire and respect) who feel that we should hold back until the man has become a Master Mason. That if we share the "good stuff" too early, the brother may feel no call to keep advancing. My personal opinion is that if an EA or FC feels genuinely connected with the Lodge, the pressure of the time limits imposed by the Grand Lodge will keep them from tarrying too long. The greater danger is from EAs and FCs dropping out altogether, not losing interest in advancing.
> 
> ...



I couldn't agree more. While I have the drive to progress and be active in my Lodge I understand that some may not. Not being able to participate in anything until after you have been raised may be the one thing that leads some one to drift away. I have not done anything other than my memory work and there are times when I feel like I need to hurry to get through it all so I can actually feel like I am a part of something. With EAs and FCs not being able to be involved in anything of than memory work it sometimes can feel like we don't belong or that we really aren't a part of the Lodge until we are raised.


----------



## Dow Mathis (Aug 9, 2011)

Duplicate post.  Please disregard.


----------



## Dow Mathis (Aug 9, 2011)

jwhoff said:


> So ... I get the feeling you've come across this.  Not where? But in what capacity?



Perhaps I should try to explain my viewpoint a little better, especially in light of what others have said.  My initial statement was:



dow said:


> Holey Underwear, Batman!  Certainly not.  an EA wouldn't have enough knowledge of the workings of the lodge to be of any real use.  My gosh, I was raised in May and breathed a silent sigh of relief to learn that I WASN'T selected for a committee this year.  Things are still too dim for me at this point.  Give it a year (or more) to sit, watch, and learn how things work first.



In regards to my statement about EAs not having enough knowledge of the working of the lodge, I stand by that, in light of my lodge not opening EA lodges except for the initiation and proficiency of EAs.  Because of this, EAs don't get any insight into the workings of the lodge.  The same goes for FCs.

Obviously our opinions and viewpoints are colored in great part by our own experiences and situations.  In my case, with a full-time job, a 16 year-old son, an 18 month-old son and a wife with a full time job, along with a fairly active church life and a 90 mile round trip commute for work each day, my time is somewhat limited (to say the least, lol).  Also, having served on several committees in the past in my church, I'm aware of how committee work can grow to take up all the time you have and more.  As I progressed through the degrees and worked on my memory work, I found myself scratching and scraping for whatever time I could get that would work with my instructor's schedule.  The thought of doing all of this AND juggling the requirements of a committee assignment as well frankly gives me the heebie-jeebies.  I would save the EA and FC the headache and frustration that I would face in that position.  I think that, for the EA and FC especially, learning the memory work is enough, unless, of course, they are planning on taking more rather than less time in gaining their proficiency.  If time is not of the essence then maybe there's enough to spare for committee work as well.


----------



## Roach (Aug 9, 2011)

I hope to be an EA soon and believe I should learn the work before i begin the work. Now if I have a skill that is needed and ask to assist then all the better. If a new EA is discouraged because he is only doing memory work then he might be looking for a quick fix to something and not ready for the journey ahead of him.


----------



## MikeMay (Aug 9, 2011)

Focus on the memory work...there are enough brothers in a lodge to do the "other" work....

The most important thing an EA can do is completing the memory work for EA so they can be passed to Fellowcraft, then Raised to the Sublime degree of a Master Mason.  That should be a new Mason's "ONLY" priority.  There will be plenty of "other" work to come later.


----------



## CHarris (Aug 9, 2011)

Being a fairly new Master Mason, I can remember when I was wanting to be more involved with other work, being that of an EA. Let me tell you I am sure glade that wasn't allowed at my lodge. I would have never got the memory work done. Now that I do have the honor of doing other work, let me say it's not to hard to take on more than you want sometimes. So no I don't think EA's or Fellow Crafts should be allowed to be involved in other work. Just my 2 cents.


----------



## Michaelstedman81 (Aug 10, 2011)

I can honestly feel for both sides of this topic.  But, I do lean more towards not letting EAs take part in committees.  It's like this to me:

Mac brought up the point of a graphic designer entering the lodge and volunteering to help with stuff that is right up his alley.  I do see that it can benefit the lodge in the long run to have someone that is well versed in a specific task help out or even be and advisor. 

However, as far as I was tracking our fraternity is realy big on tradition.  In the building of the temple, each level of worker had certain tasks that they had to become proficient in.  They had to learn those parts and work to be proficient in those before continuing on to the next level.  

Though, we aren't building a real temple and things are symoblic for us, I do like to hold on to a lot of that tradition and think that the EAs should concentrate on getting the work set in front of them done before trying to take on other responsibilities in the building of their own "temple".  Get done with all the work required of them, then they can be allowed to take on further work.  I also think that allowing only Master Mason's to take part in committees would be a bit of motivation to get their work done and be proficient at it in a timely manner.  

Just my dime minus eight pennies.


----------



## Mac (Aug 10, 2011)

As an organization, we like to compare things.  Symbols, allegories, stories, etc.

When I think of the EA, I remember my days in the Navy's nuclear power program.  To qualify as a reactor operator on a ship, it took about a year.  Before you qualified that position (with exams, oral boards, etc), you were not allowed to perform maintenance on equipment in the power plant.  Neither could you stand watch on the actual reactor.

You were a NUB (non-useful body)!

There were two kinds of nubs: the kind that still found ways to be helpful and the kind that didn't.

The good nubs couldn't do maintenance, but still showed up to be go-fers, to learn, and generally tried to take one responsibilities open to them.  The other nubs would try to avoid work, saying that "my studies should come first."  

We're smart men.  We initiate smart men.  If a gentleman is brought into the Craft, and wishes to assist the Lodge, I say he should be able to do so, if only in a minor role.  I find it extreme to suppose that if a man is a member of a committee, he will be completely unable to learn his memory work.  I would just remind the brother that he cannot have his name published in any way associated with the Lodge, so his work will go mostly unpublished until he is an MM.  He might be the cat's meow in his given field, but he can't be an official "member" or chair of the committee until he's an MM.

The impetus is still there for him to pursue his memory work.  I still believe getting someone involved, via committees, is the next natural step.  I'm sure brothers from 100 years ago would be blown away that EA's can attend meetings now!


----------



## Dow Mathis (Aug 10, 2011)

> If a gentleman is brought into the Craft, and wishes to assist the  Lodge, I say he should be able to do so, if only in a minor role.



:laugh: This reminds me of the first time I went to lodge after being initiated.  I got there early and ended up mashing potatoes.  Minor role, but necessary and appreciated.  And you're right, it didn't interfere with my memory work.  :001_smile:


----------



## Brent Heilman (Aug 10, 2011)

Kind of like what happened with me. I showed up for a breakfast to help out and I am now one the "official" cooks.


----------



## JJones (Aug 10, 2011)

That sounds reasonable to me and his role on the committee is quite minor.  Thank you for that!



Mac said:


> I would just remind the brother that he cannot have his name published in any way associated with the Lodge, so his work will go mostly unpublished until he is an MM.  He might be the cat's meow in his given field, but he can't be an official "member" or chair of the committee until he's an MM.



Could you point me in the right direction where I could find this in the law book?  I've spent a good bit of time reading through it trying to find anything relevant to my original question with no luck. :/

It'd be much appreciated if so!


----------



## Bro.BruceBenjamin (Aug 10, 2011)

I can follow the line of thinking of wanting a new initiate to be connected early with those already in the quarry. However I think we should be caring for the initiate during this stage. The new apprentice compares to a caterpillar in terms of development. If we want more perfect butterflies then we should feed them from the beginning. Our focus being on quality what kind of man are we really building?


This society has turned into a fast pased have to have it right now place. During the times of the operative masons they worked together and in most cases lived together. It was easy to see that masonry embrued their very being.To some masonry is a hobby, but for me masonry is a lifestyle that is lived daily as the brothers did who traveled this road before me.


The process of turning a rough ashlar into a finished one is long, but the rewards are great. I heard it said, "Grand Lodges make lodges and Lodges make masons."


----------



## Mac (Aug 10, 2011)

I can understand that viewpoint, brother Benjamin, but I would not necessarily equate rote recitation of a catechism with the making of a true Mason.

How many Lodges require their EA's to prepare some kind of masonic education program or present a paper on a topic related to the EA degree and its tracing board?  Honestly, I think that, paired with the catechism, would be far more worthwhile in terms of learning our Art than recitation alone.


----------



## Michaelstedman81 (Aug 10, 2011)

Mac said:


> I would just remind the brother that he cannot have his name published in any way associated with the Lodge, so his work will go mostly unpublished until he is an MM.  He might be the cat's meow in his given field, but he can't be an official "member" or chair of the committee until he's an MM.



VERY good idea, Mac!  I didn't even think of that.  It allows the new member to assist where necessary, but also holds fast some of the older ideas.  I hate not giving credit where it is due to someone, but I do think that this really meshes both sides of things.  At least the Brothers in the lodge and also the others on the committee would know that he was a major asset when accomplishing the goal.  Even if it isn't listed officially.


----------



## Michaelstedman81 (Aug 10, 2011)

Bro.BruceBenjamin said:


> To some masonry is a hobby, but for me masonry is a lifestyle that is lived daily as the brothers did who traveled this road before me.



Well said there, Bro. Benjamin.  I try to make Masonry as much of a lifestyle as possible as well.  I really like how you worded that.


----------

