# Masonic Law concerning petitioners who are felons.



## Jim Rohrman

I am looking for factual answers to an issue that has come up in my lodge regarding a petition that has been thru the investigation process, found to be favorable.  However, the potential candidate is still on deferred adjudication until 2015.  Cant find any rule about this other than a mason who is convicted and removed.  Question:  Can the petitioner apply and be given favorable recommendation while being a felon, and if so, why then do we expel Masons for becoming Felons?


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## Bill Lins

Excellent question! While I find nothing in the Law that specifically addresses this scenario, IMHO (which, with a couple of bucks, will buy you a cup of coffee most anywhere except Starbucks) the following would be a reasonable guide:*

Art. 393. Qualifications.* 
<snip> if a candidate has been finally convicted of a felony offense, he shall be deemed disqualified to receive the degrees. <snip>

*Art. 506. Automatic Suspension Or Expulsion.

*c. <snip> in the event a defendant is charged with the offense of a felony and enters a plea of guilty or enters a plea of nolo contendere and the court, after
hearing evidence, finds that such evidence substantiates the defendant’s guilt and defers further proceedings without entering an adjudication of guilt and
places the defendant on probation, such proceeding shall be deemed a conviction of a felony for all purposes relative to this article <snip>

As I read the above, I suspect that the Grand Lodge considers a person under deferred adjudication for a felony to be a convicted felon, and convicted felons are not qualified, under current Law, to petition for the Degrees.

Also IMHO, a prudent WM would contact the Grand Master & ask for his decision before proceeding any further in this matter.


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## eagle1966

Submit your question in writing to your DDGM and will forward to GM for answer


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## jvarnell

To have "deferred adjudication" I think you would have had to plea "nolo contendere". 

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In short, Deferred Adjudication is a type of probation. A defendant is placed on a probation for a certain period of time. If the probation is successfully completed, the case is "dismissed." A defendant will enter a guilty plea, but the judge does not find the defendant guilty and instead "defers" the finding of guilt. Pleading guilty for Deferred Adjudication is not considered a conviction under Texas law. A criminal background check will show the arrest for the charge, will show the Deferred Adjudication, but it will not show a conviction.

Written by: Robert Hampton Tuthill 
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## Jim Rohrman

Thank you Bill.


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## Jim Rohrman

Then would it be fair to say, the candidate should not be allowed to petition until the probation is met?


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## jvarnell

I am just telling you how the law treats it.  I personaly think yes but the GLoT would say no because probation means gilt.  In another thread I tried to get to this problem.  Do we as masons want to dicount someone because they make the Freemasons look bad or do we want to discount them because of there moral charitor.  Look at the thread about a felony.   I think if you are left brain you will say he can't be a Freemason strict GLoT.  If you are right brain you will question it.  Off the top of my head you would have never seen the Deferred Adjudication if he would have waited before potishining.  So is there gilt there of moral problems?

Another delima I may have steped into.

Bill_lins is the expert of the letter of the law so you should listen to him at this time.


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## Frater Cliff Porter

Because you must stand up in court and admit and plead guilty, usually a deferred is considered guilt.  In Colorado we allow convicted felons technically, although I happen to disagree with it.

The Brethren have indicated they like lodges to have discretion in this decision (for fear of the whole...what about a guy who was 18 years old, committed a felony traffic offense, and then at 60 years old after 40 years working as a pastor, etc. etc.) so they can show forgiveness if forgiveness is needed.


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## jvarnell

Frater Cliff Porter said:


> The Brethren have indicated they like lodges to have discretion in this decision (for fear of the whole...what about a guy who was 18 years old, committed a felony traffic offense, and then at 60 years old after 40 years working as a pastor, etc. etc.) so they can show forgiveness if forgiveness is needed.



When it comes to Masonary where is forgivness and grace are they only a Christian concept.  Those two thing I have not seen much on the way the GLes treat them in Masonic law.


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## chrmc

jvarnell said:


> When it comes to Masonary where is forgivness and grace are they only a Christian concept.  Those two thing I have not seen much on the way the GLes treat them in Masonic law.



You have a point, and then again I think you don't. To me Masonry is about taking a good man and making him better. It's about working on the temple of the body and soul to hit high standards and goals that are hard to reach. Masonry isn't about taking a man and not teaching him how to steal, lie, break the law etc. or whatever got him a felony in the first place. 

So whilst I see the point that forgiveness should be a part of a mason's character I also think that if we have to spend a lot of time teaching our members the basics, we'll never ever reach the heights that we should. Masonry isn't for everybody and I personally don't think it should be. 

But as most things, this certainly isn't a black and white discussion.


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## jvarnell

My point was to point out that you can not just go by writen rules you have to use your head and hart. I know for entrance we have to fallow the rules.  But i always think of our US founding fathers and how they were felons untill the war for independant was over then they were heros.!

Since the court alowed derferd adguacation it must have been a dui and was deamed a mistake and did not have all the evedince they needed.  The guy probly took a plee to save money and makesure he did not go to jail so he could still suport his famly.  All supastion.


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## Bill Lins

jvarnell said:


> you would have never seen the Deferred Adjudication if he would have waited before potishining.



If the petitioner did not disclose it on his petition, that is grounds for expulsion in and of itself.


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## jvarnell

Bill_Lins77488 said:


> If the petitioner did not disclose it on his petition, that is grounds for expulsion in and of itself.


If you have done a FOIA request for his record after it was fully adjudication it will say he has had a Deferred Adjudication for a trafic offince between  start date to stop date and nothing eles I beleive.  And the question I would have is do we know if it was a mistamener of folny.

I should not have got into this thread because y'all will say I am argumentative but I beleive I am discusing points I am passionate about.  So what I have said above is what the lodge needs to know about the words "Defferred Adjudication".  What Bill_Lins77488 said is the letter of Masonic Governance.  Remember governance is not gidance it is what must be done.


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## Frater Cliff Porter

I was looking at Texas traffic laws and a first offender DUI is not a felony (it is not a felony in any state at the moment).  Texas has a felony traffic for multiple convictions and also if you kill or harm somebody.  So this guy does NOT have a deferred felony for a simple DUI.


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## jvarnell

Frater Cliff Porter said:


> I was looking at Texas traffic laws and a first offender DUI is not a felony (it is not a felony in any state at the moment). Texas has a felony traffic for multiple convictions and also if you kill or harm somebody. So this guy does NOT have a deferred felony for a simple DUI.



Ok thanks that was supastition on my part.


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## jvarnell

Since a felony is anything that comes with more than one year in jail it could have been alot of things.  As laws are passed with zero trolance and mandtory sentiances you will see thing the normal person would not think are problems become a felony.  Look up what happens when a CHL holder get a DUI and his gun is on or about his person.  I am told that certian munisapalitys in Texas stack everything they think they can get so they will get at least one of them.

Please Look at *PC Â§46.02*

I am not arguing I am giving you suporting information.


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## CajunTinMan

In Louisiana you can have a felony. Personaly I am not in favor of a flat out ban against all felons. A felony does not make for a bad person. A guy who cuts down his shotgun to 17 3/4 inches; felon. A guy copies a movie; felon. A guy who beats someone to within an inch of thier life for molesting his child; felon.


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## THurse

Are there checks done of the candidate, before consideration of membership? Petitioning a lodge for membership the candidate was examined thoroughly before membership. I myself was.


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## Bill Lins

Yes.


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## jvarnell

CajunTinMan said:


> In Louisiana you can have a felony. Personaly I am not in favor of a flat out ban against all felons. A felony does not make for a bad person. A guy who cuts down his shotgun to 17 3/4 inches; felon. A guy copies a movie; felon. A guy who beats someone to within an inch of thier life for molesting his child; felon.


I agree with you .


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## jvarnell

One more thing I do not beleive it is agenst anything to ask questions of any rule it is just wrong to not follow them while they are in existence.


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## rpbrown

Although I do not agree with GLoT on thios matter (in fact strong disagreement), It is GL law and must be followed.


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## jvarnell

rpbrown said:


> Although I do not agree with GLoT on thios matter (in fact strong disagreement), It is GL law and must be followed.



Yes I agree


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## Chris McKean

CajunTinMan said:


> In Louisiana you can have a felony. Personaly I am not in favor of a flat out ban against all felons. A felony does not make for a bad person. A guy who cuts down his shotgun to 17 3/4 inches; felon. A guy copies a movie; felon. A guy who beats someone to within an inch of thier life for molesting his child; felon.


I am currently in contact with friends who are members of a local lodge and I have asked to submit an application for membership. I have a felony conviction which is 10 years old for battery. I plead guilty in court. I am not on probation. I am searching for answers as to whether or not I would be denied membership based solely upon that conviction or whether the recommendations by and opinions of my peers in regard to my character would be possibly enough to allow me to be considered. I see that your also in Louisiana, which is why I decided to inquire about your thoughts on this


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## rpbrown

I cannot speak for Louisiana GL law but in Texas, the article was repealed a couple of years ago and now leaves it up to the individual lodge to decide.

The reason behind this repeal was because of things men did while they were young and stupid were determined to be felonies but either they turned their lives around or some of the charges are no longer considered felonies.

One man I know in particular was convicted of felony drug possession in 1977 because he had a joint in his car. He was sentenced to 2 years and out in 9 months. Not only has been his only arrest, he is now a pastor of a church. However, under the old GLoT law, he was not eligible to become a Mason.


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## Warrior1256

From what I have heard from more experienced Brothers in the lodge here in Kentucky you are simply ineligible for Masonry if you have a felony record. As one Brother said: "We take good men and make them better, we don't take bad men and make them good." 


rpbrown said:


> The reason behind this repeal was because of things men did while they were young and stupid were determined to be felonies but either they turned their lives around or some of the charges are no longer considered felonies.
> 
> One man I know in particular was convicted of felony drug possession in 1977 because he had a joint in his car. He was sentenced to 2 years and out in 9 months. Not only has been his only arrest, he is now a pastor of a church. However, under the old GLoT law, he was not eligible to become a Mason.


An excellent example and point.


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## fmasonlog

Chris McKean said:


> I am currently in contact with friends who are members of a local lodge and I have asked to submit an application for membership. I have a felony conviction which is 10 years old for battery. I plead guilty in court. I am not on probation. I am searching for answers as to whether or not I would be denied membership based solely upon that conviction or whether the recommendations by and opinions of my peers in regard to my character would be possibly enough to allow me to be considered. I see that your also in Louisiana, which is why I decided to inquire about your thoughts on this



Explain yourself to the worshipful master at the lodge you're trying to petition to. Our lodge judges people on their present not past. 


Sent from my  using My Freemasonry


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## Cody Buck

My grandfather was a 32nd degree Shriner out of Wichita, KS. I am his only grandson out of 4 that is interested in joining however, I plead guilty to a harmless felony 20 years ago when I was a kid. One of my best friends is a lawyer and offered to expunge my record to restore my civil rights (I've lead a productive/successful life since and have never needed a reason to file for it other than this). Is there anyway that it might be sufficient enough to join?


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## Glen Cook

Cody Buck said:


> My grandfather was a 32nd degree Shriner out of Wichita, KS. I am his only grandson out of 4 that is interested in joining however, I plead guilty to a harmless felony 20 years ago when I was a kid. One of my best friends is a lawyer and offered to expunge my record to restore my civil rights (I've lead a productive/successful life since and have never needed a reason to file for it other than this). Is there anyway that it might be sufficient enough to join?


You may have gathered that it varies with the jurisdiction. Even if the petition asks for expunged offenses, I still recommend that an expungement be sought. This demonstrates that the judicial process has extended its forgiveness for the criminal act, specifically finding that you are deserving of such. 

However, from one who has been substantially involved in the  criminal justice process, I recommend you do not use the term “harmless felony.”  That will be considered by some to be minimizing. Be honest and direct.  You committed a crime.  Then you can demonstrate it was not consistent with your life in the years since.


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## Warrior1256

Glen Cook said:


> However, from one who has been substantially involved in the criminal justice process, I recommend you do not use the term “harmless felony.” That will be considered by some to be minimizing. Be honest and direct. You committed a crime. Then you can demonstrate it was not consistent with your life in the years since.


Excellent point Brother.


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## Rifleman1776

Cody Buck said:


> My grandfather was a 32nd degree Shriner out of Wichita, KS. I am his only grandson out of 4 that is interested in joining however, I plead guilty to a harmless felony 20 years ago when I was a kid. One of my best friends is a lawyer and offered to expunge my record to restore my civil rights (I've lead a productive/successful life since and have never needed a reason to file for it other than this). Is there anyway that it might be sufficient enough to join?



Interesting situation. I don't understand what a "harmless felony" is. But, understand, there really is no such thing as a record being totally expunged. It may get barred from public access but any investigative agency can, and usually will, find it. OTOH, an inquiry to the local Lodge Secretary might get your question answered. Not knowing you, I have no opinion on whether or not you would make a good Mason. I wish you well.


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## LK600

Cody Buck said:


> My grandfather was a 32nd degree Shriner out of Wichita, KS.



I've never met a 32nd degree Shriner.  Is that a KS thing?  



Cody Buck said:


> I plead guilty to a harmless felony 20 years ago when I was a kid.



I would say it depends on the rules of the Grand Lodge where you live, but beyond that, it's more gray.  What do you mean by "kid"?  I have a great deal of exposure to (investigating and arresting) Felons, so I understand your meaning to "Harmless Felony".  But again... it would depend on who's version of harmless and several other factors involved.  I wish you luck.


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## Warrior1256

LK600 said:


> I've never met a 32nd degree Shriner. Is that a KS thing?


Agreed....lol.


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## dfreybur

LK600 said:


> I've never met a 32nd degree Shriner.



It's only a few years ago the Shrine required membership in either Scottish or York Rites. I know a lot  of Shriners who are still Scottish Rite 32nd degree.



> I have a great deal of exposure to (investigating and arresting) Felons, so I understand your meaning to "Harmless Felony".  But again... it would depend on who's version of harmless and several other factors involved.  I wish you luck.



I have read the term "moral turpitude" as a qualifier. There are administrative felonies like broadcasting FM radio over a certain wattage without a license, where finding a victim would be very involved.


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## Brother JC

California still uses the phrase “crimes of moral turpitude.”


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## Cody Buck

.


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## goomba

Cody Buck said:


> It was a burglary charge however, I didn't break into anything /no theft charge/didn't hurt anyone/no weapons or drugs. More of a formality because I was work at the time. *My lawyer freaked out on me because they didn't have anything without my confession but I was 20 years old and felt bad so spilled the beans under the hot light. If I had been smart and "Lawyer'd up" - this never would have happened...*My grandfather was; Darwin James Buck out of Wichita, KS. Look him up - He was a 32nd degree mason (He was a Shriner - I have all of his Shiner jewelry . The ring looks like a super bowl championship ring - has a huge diamond in the center).  My grandfather ran away from an abusive home and joined the army - stormed Omaha beach on D-day, received a bronze star and a purple heart. Only 1 of a handful of  Army Ranger forward observers that came home alive. Also, he was only 15 years old when he joined the army and told them he was 18. That's a felony.



Without more details I can say this statement would cause me to believe you shouldn't be a Mason.  I find it smart to be honest.  If I have taken your words out of context please feel free to correct me.


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## Warrior1256

Cody Buck said:


> It was a burglary charge however, I didn't break into anything /no theft charge/didn't hurt anyone/no weapons or drugs. More of a formality because I was work at the time. My lawyer freaked out on me because they didn't have anything without my confession but I was 20 years old and felt bad so spilled the beans under the hot light. If I had been smart and "Lawyer'd up" - this never would have happened...My grandfather was; Darwin James Buck out of Wichita, KS. Look him up - He was a 32nd degree mason (He was a Shriner - I have all of his Shiner jewelry . The ring looks like a super bowl championship ring - has a huge diamond in the center). My grandfather ran away from an abusive home and joined the army - stormed Omaha beach on D-day, received a bronze star and a purple heart. Only 1 of a handful of Army Ranger forward observers that came home alive. Also, he was only 15 years old when he joined the army and told them he was 18. That's a felony.





goomba said:


> Without more details I can say this statement would cause me to believe you shouldn't be a Mason. I find it smart to be honest. If I have taken your words out of context please feel free to correct me.


I don't know....if I could I would probably give him the benefit of the doubt. However, in my jurisdiction ANY felony disqualifies a person from entering Masonry.


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## Rifleman1776

Cody Buck said:


> It was a burglary charge however, I didn't break into anything /no theft charge/didn't hurt anyone/no weapons or drugs. More of a formality because I was work at the time. My lawyer freaked out on me because they didn't have anything without my confession but I was 20 years old and felt bad so spilled the beans under the hot light. If I had been smart and "Lawyer'd up" - this never would have happened...My grandfather was; Darwin James Buck out of Wichita, KS. Look him up - He was a 32nd degree mason (He was a Shriner - I have all of his Shiner jewelry . The ring looks like a super bowl championship ring - has a huge diamond in the center).  My grandfather ran away from an abusive home and joined the army - stormed Omaha beach on D-day, received a bronze star and a purple heart. Only 1 of a handful of  Army Ranger forward observers that came home alive. Also, he was only 15 years old when he joined the army and told them he was 18. That's a felony.




Still a felony. Several unanswered questions in that statement. Regardless of the laws in a jurisdiction, a petitioner still has to get past the investigation committee and ballot box. In most places a single black ball or cube will keep you out.


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## Warrior1256

Rifleman1776 said:


> In most places a single black ball or cube will keep you out.


That's the way it is in Kentucky.


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## Cody Buck

Thank you for your time gentlemen.


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## Bloke

Cody Buck said:


> It was a burglary charge however, I didn't break into anything /no theft charge/didn't hurt anyone/no weapons or drugs. More of a formality because I was work at the time. My lawyer freaked out on me because they didn't have anything without my confession but I was 20 years old and felt bad so spilled the beans under the hot light. If I had been smart and "Lawyer'd up" - this never would have happened...My grandfather was; Darwin James Buck out of Wichita, KS. Look him up - He was a 32nd degree mason (He was a Shriner - I have all of his Shiner jewelry . The ring looks like a super bowl championship ring - has a huge diamond in the center).  My grandfather ran away from an abusive home and joined the army - stormed Omaha beach on D-day, received a bronze star and a purple heart. Only 1 of a handful of  Army Ranger forward observers that came home alive. Also, he was only 15 years old when he joined the army and told them he was 18. That's a felony.


Did you commit the crime ?
Rules vary from place to place, and sometimes Grand Masters have the power to set them aside. I recently arranged for a man to become  a Freemason who has been convicted of stealing a boat on a trailor. Friends had taken it and put it in his parents yards and he refused to name who did it, so was charged and convicted - but 30 years ago as a 19 year old and since he seems to have lived an exemplary life. He has not been balloted, but the GM has given his consent for him to proceed.

Many Nth Americans often present a very black and white view on this - but I often wonder if that is truly the case. I know a man I know who has actually been in jail for stealing cars as a 18 year old. He was poor and dumb. He is now over 60, two grown children, a grandchild and works tirelessly to look after his family in a low paid shift job,  and I would stake my masonic honour and membership on him. He would be a great Freemason. Only problem is, he is too busy looking after others and hence feels he does not have time for lodge.  I think I would be able to get him in fully complying with our Law, Customs and Constitution. He has volunteers with Lodge several times, simply to help me,  and several people have spotted his merit. I have known him since I was 15 and he has always been a good role model for me.

I would say the circumstances of your conviction, the crime and your current life would have great bearing if you were in my jurisdiction, I would be looking for a pattern of merit since your youth.

Assuming you are a good man, (and with no disrespect, that might be a big assumption), I would recommend trying to find an advocate in the place you wish to you join.

And despite all the above, I have blocked men (not blackballed them, but certainly blocked them) because I thought they were of low or unreliable character.  Freemasonry is not for everyone, but I do have the view that it is better to miss out on worthy members than admit unworthy ones.


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## Warrior1256

Bloke said:


> I would say the circumstances of your conviction, the crime and your current life would have great bearing if you were in my jurisdiction, I would be looking for a pattern of merit since your youth.


Agreed.


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## Cody Buck

I've decided not to petition for new membership but thank you so much for your time.


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## Bloke

Cody Buck said:


> I've decided not to petition for new membership but thank you so much for your time.


I wish you luck Cody. Freemasonry is just one of many paths to be a better man, regardless of the path you walk to get there, being a better man is always a worthy goal.


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## Warrior1256

Bloke said:


> Freemasonry is just one of many paths to be a better man, regardless of the path you walk to get there, being a better man is always a worthy goal.


Well said Brother Bloke!


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## rpbrown

Just to throw this out there, a member of our lodge was convicted of a felony a long time ago (60's). His crime was a single marijuana "joint" in his car. The judge decided to make an example out of him and gave him the maximum sentence (10 years I think). He got out on parole in 2 years. He has led an exemplary life since, in fact has become a pastor of a church. Under the old GLoT law, he would not have been admitted.  However, since that law changed and left it to the discretion of the lodge, he was admitted. He was honest with the investigative committee of which I was a member and that held a lot of weight with me. Besides that, his charge today would only be, I think, a class C misdemeanor which is a simple speeding ticket.
It is for reasons like this that I believe it should be left up to the individual lodge.


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