# Full Form Lectures



## tomasball (Jun 8, 2011)

Does your lodge give the lectures in full form, including the monitorial parts?


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## Charpersr (Jun 8, 2011)

We give all lectures in full form from memory in Illinois.


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## Bboc (Jun 11, 2011)

*yes we do in tn*

We give the full ceremony from memory in tn. With the exception of 2. 1. Being when there are several mm then only the last one raised gets the full. To save time all are raised properly but only the last is the long performance. 
2. Being when the grand master of the state of tn. Chose's to raise someone they can modify it if need be. (if someone is about to die and they want to be raised to mm).


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## Bill Lins (Jun 12, 2011)

No- we only give the esoteric lecture. Personally, I feel that giving the lecture at the end of the degree is wasted- the candidate has already seen & heard more than he can absorb in one evening. I believe it would be more to the candidate's benefit for us to wait a week or so and then present it to him. It would help him to understand the degree & possibly help him with the memory work.


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## Beathard (Jun 12, 2011)

Really good idea.


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## jwhoff (Jun 12, 2011)

Bro. Bill has a good idea.  One of my lodges has, of late, taken to blocking (stepping through) much of the lecture with the candidate on the floor as opposed to having him set and listen.  Candidate appears to get more out of it that way.  Although it _is_ a departure.  Still not sure how I stand on _departures._


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## dbindel (Jun 12, 2011)

jwhoff said:


> Bro. Bill has a good idea.  One of my lodges has, of late, taken to blocking (stepping through) much of the lecture with the candidate on the floor as opposed to having him set and listen.  Candidate appears to get more out of it that way.  Although it _is_ a departure.  Still not sure how I stand on _departures._


 
Bro. Hoff, can you elaborate on what you mean by blocking/stepping through? Is it like a walking lecture, or splitting the lecture into more easily memorized chunks that can be handled by multiple people?


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## Bill Lins (Jun 12, 2011)

jwhoff said:


> One of my lodges has, of late, taken to blocking (stepping through) much of the lecture with the candidate on the floor as opposed to having him set and listen.  Candidate appears to get more out of it that way.


 
I really like that idea. Wonder what the Committee on Work would have to say about it?


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## jwhoff (Jun 12, 2011)

dbindel said:


> Bro. Hoff, can you elaborate on what you mean by blocking/stepping through? Is it like a walking lecture, or splitting the lecture into more easily memorized chunks that can be handled by multiple people



Walking lecture.  Have you seen one?


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## jwhoff (Jun 12, 2011)

Bill_Lins77488 said:


> I really like that idea. Wonder what the Committee on Work would have to say about it?



My thoughts exactly.


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## David Duke (Jun 12, 2011)

From what I've been told it is definitely NOT approved.


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## tomasball (Jun 13, 2011)

Since there are other parts of the ritual where the Master is required to leave the East, I wonder if there is really a reason why the lecture MUST be given from the East, or if it's just another example of the CoW insisting on minute consistency in the work from lodge to lodge.


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## Brother Jason Eddy (Jun 14, 2011)

Bill_Lins77488 said:


> No- we only give the esoteric lecture. Personally, I feel that giving the lecture at the end of the degree is wasted- the candidate has already seen & heard more than he can absorb in one evening. I believe it would be more to the candidate's benefit for us to wait a week or so and then present it to him. It would help him to understand the degree & possibly help him with the memory work.



While I understand where you are coming from Brother, I do not fully agree with you here.  Admittedly, I did not understand much if any of the lectures given to me after each degree and was frustrated at the time by my lack of understanding.  However, since then I have found that the lack of comprehension has actually been my motivation to learn more.  If I had left the Lodge after my EA with the ritual memorized or written on a piece of paper, I would not have necessarily felt a need to dig deeper.  But in leaving with several small seeds planted (rough ashlar, trestle board, cardinal virtues, etc) I was highly motivated to spend time studying on my own and conversing with other Brothers to understand it.  If anything, I believe that it helped me tremendously.  I think that the lecture is intended to give the candidate a glimpse and give the Brethren that are listening a lesson.  Just my thoughtsâ€¦

S&F

Jason


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## Timothy Fleischer (Jun 15, 2011)

Brothers,
I was raised June 1995 (hard to believe it has been 16 years). During my 3 degrees, I received the full lectures given to me by memory alone. At some point during the time when my cable tow prevented me from attending Lodge very often and at a point where my Lodge was not having many new members, Masonry made the decision to forego the long form of the lectures. Now the initiate, fellow and master receive the short form lectures.

While I will freely admit that the long form makes for a very, very long night (especially when you had to wait for the lodge to open in a MM and then call off and go to labor in the appropriate degree), I think that younger Masons are missing something. I mentioned the term "rough ashlar" the other day and got a blank stare from a young Mason. 

I hope to learn the lectures (short and long form) and one day surprise my younger brothers with a long form lecture given from memory.

It is what the older brothers did for me.


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## jwhoff (Jul 31, 2011)

I was told yesterday that lecture should be given no where but the East.  No "walk-arounds," etc. permitted.  

Any discussion should be brought to the attention of the Committee on Work.  

This I totally expected, but was not sure.  Anyone else have a different take or has anyone else carried the issue up the line?


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## barryguitar (Aug 2, 2011)

I cant resist chiming in on this, as it is something I feel quite strongly about. The full form fellowcraft lecture is the Meat and Potatoes of Masonry! It is many times more beautiful and meaningful to the brother being passed than the stripped down lecture. There is a certain Past Master of my lodge who used to travel across this state delivering the Fellowcraft lecture in its full form with the charge, tools of the degree in hand to point out the various lessons of the lodgeroom layout. I have only seen it done one time and it was one week after my passing. There were two of us there to receive it. His descriptions of the pillars and the globes, there deep meaning conferred upon the listener in the most captivating way, left the newly passed Craftsman with a deep desire to expand his knowledge of the seven liberal arts. How many brothers are raised without ever even hearing or being made aware of the beauty of the degree. 
     It is my understanding that Grand Lodge does not condone the giving of the full lecture anymore. I do not know if this is true. If it is, this is a mistake that does nothing to improve Masonry. The Lodges should be allowed to choose if they want their Fellowcrafts to receive the full lecture or the stripped down one. Our elders who can cite the full lecture and charge should be celebrated and the committee on work should strongly oppose the cheapening of Masonry and ensure that it remains the masonry that made our Grandfathers the great men that they were. 
      I think this is another area where Texas Masonry would benefit greatly from a Traditional Observance lodge.


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## Mac (Aug 2, 2011)

jwhoff said:


> I was told yesterday that lecture should be given no where but the East. No "walk-arounds," etc. permitted.
> 
> Any discussion should be brought to the attention of the Committee on Work.
> 
> This I totally expected, but was not sure. Anyone else have a different take or has anyone else carried the issue up the line?



We are having a forum at Ingleside 1361 this Friday, and I will ask about this at that time.  I'm definitely interested in hearing more.


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