# Freemasons role in religious wars



## DIllon Nauta (Dec 19, 2018)

i'm a big prospect that is trying to become more educated in the history of Masonry. I try to see things through a zen lens. The beginning of my question is well-started with the Knights Templar and the Crusades. Was it a masonic intention to place christianity over other religions?


----------



## coachn (Dec 19, 2018)

DIllon Nauta said:


> i'm a big prospect that is trying to become more educated in the history of Masonry. I try to see things through a zen lens. The beginning of my question is well-started with the Knights Templar and the Crusades. Was it a masonic intention to place christianity over other religions?


Although Freemasonic Morality plays spotlight a variety of themes, such as Stonecraft, Templars, etc., it is wise not to confuse the lore of these plays with actual history.  These plays _are not history_, even though they borrow heavily from historic characters and eras.

Freemasonic Grand Lodge Masonry started around 1717 and it borrowed from a whole host of different themes to construct its ever increasing demand for role playing all for a moral purpose - to make good men better.  When you start believing the lore is history, you've gotten lost in the metaphor.

As this relates to your question: Freemasonry in the USA and at the Blue Lodge level favors no one faith.  At other levels and in other countries is a different bag o' worms.


----------



## Elexir (Dec 19, 2018)

DIllon Nauta said:


> i'm a big prospect that is trying to become more educated in the history of Masonry. I try to see things through a zen lens. The beginning of my question is well-started with the Knights Templar and the Crusades. Was it a masonic intention to place christianity over other religions?



The knights templar has nothing to do with freemasonry, no one has yet proven that there is a historical connection.


----------



## LK600 (Dec 19, 2018)

DIllon Nauta said:


> Was it a masonic intention to place Christianity over other religions?



I would answer by making a change to the question.  It was very much the intention of the Knights Templar to place Christianity over other religions, and to guard the road.  No accepted connection has been found to date linking Freemasonry with the KT.  Now if you want to talk Egypt...


----------



## Brother JC (Dec 19, 2018)

The KT protected all pilgrims, not just Christians (originally). It wasn’t until the later crusades that they became essentially mercenaries for the church.


----------



## DIllon Nauta (Dec 19, 2018)

Thank you all so much.


----------



## DIllon Nauta (Dec 19, 2018)

coachn said:


> When you start believing the lore is history, you've gotten lost in the metaphor.


i don't know if it's silly for me to think this way but i'm trying to see if freemasonry aligns with the change i want to put forth to the world. bettering mankind is certainly up for interpretation but in a broad view i wouldn't want to see my brothers supporting the U.S in propping up regime's like in Israel. 
In the weeds but thank you for the output.


----------



## DIllon Nauta (Dec 19, 2018)

I know there is a lot of judaic symbolism used, is there any importance to the masons that Israel represents a christian faith over muslim?


----------



## Glen Cook (Dec 20, 2018)

DIllon Nauta said:


> i don't know if it's silly for me to think this way but i'm trying to see if freemasonry aligns with the change i want to put forth to the world. bettering mankind is certainly up for interpretation but in a broad view i wouldn't want to see my brothers supporting the U.S in propping up regime's like in Israel.
> In the weeds but thank you for the output.


We do not discuss politics in lodge. Like most organizations, there a variety of views.


----------



## Elexir (Dec 20, 2018)

DIllon Nauta said:


> I know there is a lot of judaic symbolism used, is there any importance to the masons that Israel represents a christian faith over muslim?



Dont take anything in freemasonry litteral. 
Freemasonry is based on allegories and ledgends wich serves to teach lessons on morality and life.


----------



## Elexir (Dec 20, 2018)

The first masonic grandlodge was created in 1717 in England and there existed lodges hundreds of years prior to that.
Israel was created 1947-48.

So based on facts there is no connection.


----------



## Warrior1256 (Dec 20, 2018)

Brother JC said:


> The KT protected all pilgrims, not just Christians (originally). It wasn’t until the later crusades that they became essentially mercenaries for the church.


Interesting!


----------



## Elexir (Dec 20, 2018)

Intressting fact.
During a cease-fire between the muslims and catholics both sides started going after the orthodox.


----------



## Winter (Dec 20, 2018)

DIllon Nauta said:


> ... but in a broad view i wouldn't want to see my brothers supporting the U.S in propping up regime's like in Israel.



Start by realizing that Freemasons don't take any side in politics nor do we have any global agenda regarding any national policy.  But I suggest that if you have any issues with Israel that you consider that Freemasonry is strong in that country and serves as a wonderful example where Christians, Muslims, and Jews regularly come together in harmony.


----------



## CLewey44 (Dec 20, 2018)

I'm just trying to figure out what a 'big prospect' is. I'm very sick of these anti-Semitic  allusions btw. Getting old...


----------



## Winter (Dec 20, 2018)

CLewey44 said:


> I'm just trying to figure out what a 'big prospect' is. I'm very sick of these anti-Semitic  allusions btw. Getting old...



There do seem to be more of them finding their way here.


----------



## dfreybur (Dec 20, 2018)

DIllon Nauta said:


> I know there is a lot of judaic symbolism used



Our degrees draw from events in the Old Testament. Members of other faiths need to be secure enough in their faith to not be bothered by learning lessons from some other religion. Based on your posts you are not currently secure enough in your own faith to be able to handle that. You are not ready to join our assemblies for this reason.



> is there any importance to the masons that Israel represents a christian faith over muslim?



Grand lodge Masonry was founded in 1717. By 1750 we no longer favored any one religion. Being open to members of every religion is one of our core teachings. You have been told this again and again but you still keep asking the same questions. Unfortunately that means you are acting like a troll so I will enter you on my ignore list. As we teach the moral and social virtues this is an additional reason why you are not ready to join our assemblies.


----------



## coachn (Dec 20, 2018)

CLewey44 said:


> I'm just trying to figure out what a 'big prospect' is. ...


Good thing "huge" was not used. It might become a problem during the 3rd.


----------



## CLewey44 (Dec 20, 2018)

coachn said:


> Good thing "huge" was not used. It might become a problem during the 3rd.



Oh for sure...call in the reinforcements!


----------



## LK600 (Dec 20, 2018)

DIllon Nauta said:


> but in a broad view i wouldn't want to see my brothers supporting the U.S in propping up regime's like in Israel.



Your view on Israel is your own.  You are allowed to hold the personal view that Israel is a propped up regime.  Other Brothers will hold completely different views.  We do not discuss politics as Mason's, nor do we discuss religion in any form that would be considered offensive.  If you can accept that, then you will be fine.  If you can not, Freemasonry will not be for you.  You check your religious and political opinions at the door. 



DIllon Nauta said:


> is there any importance to the masons that Israel represents a christian faith over muslim?



Considering both Christian and Muslim faiths have both sprung from Judaic teachings / backgrounds... I wouldn't think so.  Freemasons have many Christian Brothers, Muslim Brothers, Jewish Brothers, and also Odenists, Wicken, Deists, Mithra... the list goes on and on.  Opinions on these subjects are checked at the door.  Believe what you want, but understand every other Brother can believe what they want as well (with the exception of Atheism).



DIllon Nauta said:


> I'm a big prospect



You may be a great guy.  You may be famous, or rich, or influential.  What you are is the same as any other person looking into Freemasonry, who if applying and found acceptable, will become a Brother no better or worse than any other.  We are equals.


----------



## Warrior1256 (Dec 20, 2018)

Winter said:


> Start by realizing that Freemasons don't take any side in politics nor do we have any global agenda regarding any national policy. But I suggest that if you have any issues with Israel that you consider that Freemasonry is strong in that country and serves as a wonderful example where Christians, Muslims, and Jews regularly come together in harmony.


Right!


CLewey44 said:


> I'm very sick of these anti-Semitic allusions btw. Getting old...


Agreed!


----------



## Warrior1256 (Dec 20, 2018)

LK600 said:


> What you are is the same as any other person looking into Freemasonry, who if applying and found acceptable, will become a Brother no better or worse than any other. We are equals.


Great reply!


----------



## DIllon Nauta (Dec 20, 2018)

coachn said:


> Good thing "huge" was not used. It might become a problem during the 3rd.


i've really wanted to join the past year and research daily sometimes for hours. desire?


----------



## DIllon Nauta (Dec 20, 2018)

dfreybur said:


> Our degrees draw from events in the Old Testament. Members of other faiths need to be secure enough in their faith to not be bothered by learning lessons from some other religion. Based on your posts you are not currently secure enough in your own faith to be able to handle that. You are not ready to join our assemblies for this reason.
> 
> 
> 
> Grand lodge Masonry was founded in 1717. By 1750 we no longer favored any one religion. Being open to members of every religion is one of our core teachings. You have been told this again and again but you still keep asking the same questions. Unfortunately that means you are acting like a troll so I will enter you on my ignore list. As we teach the moral and social virtues this is an additional reason why you are not ready to join our assemblies.



S


----------



## DIllon Nauta (Dec 20, 2018)

dfreybur said:


> Our degrees draw from events in the Old Testament. Members of other faiths need to be secure enough in their faith to not be bothered by learning lessons from some other religion. Based on your posts you are not currently secure enough in your own faith to be able to handle that. You are not ready to join our assemblies for this reason.
> 
> 
> 
> Grand lodge Masonry was founded in 1717. By 1750 we no longer favored any one religion. Being open to members of every religion is one of our core teachings. You have been told this again and again but you still keep asking the same questions. Unfortunately that means you are acting like a troll so I will enter you on my ignore list. As we teach the moral and social virtues this is an additional reason why you are not ready to join our assemblies.



Sorry you don't like my questions. I'm trying to see the limitations of masonic ideals. Christianity was my example of a limiting ideal, sorry. i still love Jesus Christ. All ideals have a limitation.


----------



## Winter (Dec 20, 2018)

DIllon Nauta said:


> Sorry you don't like my questions. I'm trying to see the limitations of masonic ideals. Christianity was my example of a limiting ideal, sorry. i still love Jesus Christ. All ideals have a limitation.



I'm not sure what sites you are doing your daily research on for hours but they seem to have given you a very inaccurate view of Freemasonry.  Not sure what you mean by "limitations of Masonic ideals."


----------



## DIllon Nauta (Dec 20, 2018)

Winter said:


> I'm not sure what sites you are doing your daily research on for hours but they seem to have given you a very inaccurate view of Freemasonry.  Not sure what you mean by "limitations of Masonic ideals."



dao/zen seem to commit least to beliefs. reality versus concept. truth, death, meaning, is imagination. 'nothing is closest to everything' etc of similar revelations will be fundamental throughout my recontextualization of consciousness. 

I guess I’m questioning things that need to be experienced throughout my path in freemasonry. If Masonry asks me to hold/grow a position/opinion I will definitely always see opinions as they leave out more than they give. Meaning through meaninglessness


----------



## DIllon Nauta (Dec 20, 2018)

i do need to get out of my own way. zen is christ, jihad, freemasonry, etc. (though zen and masonry not being religions). i favor eastern thought because in essence they are not beliefs but so is everything else lost in translation aside from what drove my objection that religions show partiality to other religions in its framework. in the end, i already knew that everybody is reaching for the same thing, and eastern thought likely has limitations that are not posed in masonry. not even "limitations", just different.


----------



## Elexir (Dec 20, 2018)

JamestheJust said:


> We are told that Masonry is a science.  If so, Masonic scientists progress through observation, hypothesis, experiment and peer review.  Beliefs are not particularly useful.  Most brethren, however, do not seek Masonic science but are content with uprightness, ritual and brotherhood.



What you are told in ritual depends on wich ritual is used. There is no such thing as universal ritual.


----------



## Elexir (Dec 21, 2018)

JamestheJust said:


> Here is Albert Mackey in his "The Symbolism of Freemasonry"
> 
> "_He must not confound the doctrine of Freemasonry with its outward and extrinsic form. He must not suppose that certain usages and ceremonies, which exist at this day, but which, even now, are subject to extensive variations in different countries, constitute the sum and substance of Freemasonry. ... But it must be always remembered that the ceremony is not the substance. It is but the outer garment which covers and perhaps adorns it, as clothing does the human figure. ... And so take from Masonry these external ceremonies, and you still have remaining its philosophy and science. These have, of course, always continued the same, while the ceremonies have varied in different ages, and still vary in different countries.
> 
> ...



Maybe thats not all there is to it. Maybe there is other traditions and wiews in other juristictions.
Again there is diffrences in how freemasonry works around the world.


----------



## coachn (Dec 21, 2018)

DIllon Nauta said:


> i do need to get out of my own way.


If you can direct yourself toward this end and accomplish it, you have my support.


----------

