# Recently raised but have questions



## paul2426 (Feb 20, 2016)

i was recently raised but have some questions that are making me feel a little uncomfortable most of which resolves around religion.  

I know that masonry does not care what religion you are and allows you to believe whatever you want. However, it seems to me that Mason's believe that all religions worship the same God and this is a belief that I simply cannot accept as a Christian.  

This has been weighing heavily on me o the point of questioning if I should retract my membership from my lodge. I have family asking me if Jesus would have been a mason? Sounds crazy, I know, but it does make a point. 

Any insight brother Mason's can provide will be appreciated.


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## Bloke (Feb 20, 2016)

Um... this is an old topic which people get different answers to. For me, Christianity and Freemasonry are completely compatible. Smarter people than me have given answers in both camps.

I dont think Freemasons or their lodges worship any God. I think its members each all have their own religion and they think of their God when terms like the GAOTU are used. I think Freemasonry does call on you to respect the faith of others. If you're ritual speaks of "One God" then for you, it might be Jesus. (Or a Trinitarian view).

Personally, I think one religion *might* be right... but that means a lot of us are getting it wrong.  As an individual, that is a view I had before becoming a Freemason.

One thing I know, is if you google this, you will certainly get Christians forcefully saying Freemasonry and Christianity are not compatible. You also get many Christian Freemasons (and Brothers of other religions) saying they are completely compatible.

Another question is, because Parliament (or Congress) open with  prayer, does that make those legislative bodies religions, no, like Freemasonry, they ask their God to bless and support what they do as we do as Freemasons.

I guess a good question is this. Do you think Freemasonry is a religion, and do you feel you are Worshiping a single God as a lodge ? I say "no" to both of these questions.

Reflection is good. Men often say Freemasonry brings them closer to their God.... looks like it's providing a prism for you to do some reflection...

Let's hope some smarter brother than me comes along to help


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## paul2426 (Feb 20, 2016)

Thanks for the insight. Like you say, just about every Christian point of view is negative. I would really like to meet a pastor or something that is a mason so I could pick their brain. I guess I'm worried about getting to vested making friends and forming bonds with my new brothers. If I turn around feeling it's not for me, it will put me in a bad position.


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## Ressam (Feb 20, 2016)

paul2426 said:


> However, it seems to me that Mason's believe that all religions worship the same God and this is a belief that I* simply cannot accept* as a Christian.



Hello.
Could you, please, explain this words a little bit?


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## paul2426 (Feb 20, 2016)

As a Christian I of course do believe in a single God, but do not believe all religions worship the same God. I do respect all other religions, just do not believe that they all have the same idea in who our creator is.  Or instance if someone was to tell me God looks like an elephant or something, I couldn't assume it's the same...  I just have a hard time generalizing all religions into one.


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## paul2426 (Feb 20, 2016)

I'm really not trying to get into a debate, just wanting to know if freemasonry teaches that everyone's God is the same.  if everyone's God was the same, then there would be no reason for me to believe that Jesus is my savior since another religion doesn't believe in him... I am ok with everyone praying together and for your prayer to be to whoever your God is. I just want to know if masonry believes everyone's God is in fact the same God.


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## Glen Cook (Feb 20, 2016)

I am a Christian.   I am not aware of anything which would prohibit a Christian from accepting we believe in the same God. There are many Christian ministers of many faiths who are Masons. They have no problem with this.  

Let me suggest we do all worship the same God, we just aren't all correct in how we view  him (by which I mean my view is correct and all the rest of you are wrong ).
However, so what if we don't all worship the same God. Why is that a problem?


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## Ressam (Feb 20, 2016)

JamestheJust said:


> could God have left





JamestheJust said:


> God spoke





JamestheJust said:


> God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt





JamestheJust said:


> a jealous God, punishing





JamestheJust said:


> God does not permit



Thanks for your answer!
IMO, God is -- The Perfection. And, He, how to say correctly, does not have all these emotions, which Humans have.



JamestheJust said:


> Thus we can agree there is a Creator without having to argue about whose Lord God is superior.



Agree!
God is One, for everyone.
And, -- The Spiritual Development Law is -- *same* too, for everyone.


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## paul2426 (Feb 20, 2016)

I'm not concerned if grand lodge allows different beliefs or religions. Just asking if they assert that whatever your religion is, you are all worshiping the same God. Basically, what I am getting at is that for me to feel comfortable in being a member, I would have to hear that masonry requires a belief in A God, but not require that we believe everyone's idea of who God is is the same. Of course I believe there is only one God that created everyone and everything, but someone else may have a completely different version of God. Like I said I really don't care if brothers believe in another God, just don't want to be told that everyone's version is ultimately the same


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## paul2426 (Feb 20, 2016)

Thanks glen, you are sort of getting what I am getting at.


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## BroBook (Feb 20, 2016)

Mr. Paul we accept men of all faiths, so, no we do not think that all faiths are the same: but I think that if all faiths meet the level they might find the truth. And for the RECORD, I vote for Jesus/ Yeshua / Yahweh. IJS


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## Ressam (Feb 20, 2016)

paul2426 said:


> f everyone's God was the same, then there would be no reason for me to believe that *Jesus is my savior* since another religion doesn't believe in him...



How Jesus is Saving you?


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## paul2426 (Feb 20, 2016)

I am new to masonry and hope I'm not ruffling any feathers.  I love the friends I'm making and enjoy the rituals and lodge, it's just the religious aspects that give me questions. I not only want to figure it out for my own well being, but also so I can defend the craft and its ideas if need be.  I know I should be asking the brothers in my own lodge about this stuff and I probably will. I just don't want them to think I may leave after spending so much time teaching me the work.  Just trying to find clarity I guess.


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## Bloke (Feb 20, 2016)

paul2426 said:


> I am new to masonry and hope I'm not ruffling any feathers....Just trying to find clarity I guess.



Both are good things 




paul2426 said:


> .. I not only want to figure it out for my own well being, but also so I can defend the craft and its ideas if need be.  .



I would simply say, Freemasonry is not a religion but a fraternity which accepts men of all Faiths. 

Like Parliament, it opens with a prayer, but that does not make it's activities a Religion or even religious. Parliament is hardly a religious group. That said, a requirement of membership is a belief in a Supreme Being. This nebulous term allows diverse men of faiths such as Christianity, Islam, Judaism, etc, as well as men who are not from any particular religion to all unite. Freemasonry looks for common humanity that unites rather than beliefs which divided. Indeed, the only two topics which cannot be discussed in lodge are religion and politics , because these are often two topics which divide rather than unite. As Freemasons, through prayers, we do ask what/who  we refer to as the Great Architect of the Universe to bless our activities and our members, but what the GAOTU means to each member will vary and is in no way really defined, nor is there any demand or suggestion (in my ritual). For one Mason, the GAOTU might be Allah, for another Jesus, or for another something else. When I hear the phrase GAOTU, I know it is used in the Bible and interpret it according to my own faith. Freemasonry is designed for members to do that, and for many, it deepens their connection to their own religious beliefs as Freemasonry can act as a trigger to do so because it calls Brothers to become reflective and examine their own beliefs according to their own compasses, their particular religion often being a significant guiding principle. That's exactly what you are doing Paul.


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## Dontrell Stroman (Feb 20, 2016)

Although this is a good conversation, this is one of the reasons why religion is not discussed in a tyled lodge. 

Sent from my 831C using My Freemasonry Pro mobile app


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## CLewey44 (Feb 20, 2016)

I didn't read all of the replies, but the point of believing in a God or Allah or whatever you may call it, is to have something binding you to your obligation. The use of GAOTU is to sort of be generic. I don't mean that disrespectfully but that way it covers all names that represent the creator of our universe or God. 

Masonry is not a religion so any religion is accepted except no religion. The fact of the matter is, there will always be Christians, Muslims, Jews and numerous other religions in the world and Christians will never convert all non-Christians, Muslims will never convert all non-Muslims and so-on, so for you to coexist with them, interact in a social manner doesn't mean you're believing less in your God. It doesn't mean that your opinion of Jesus being our savior is any less or whatever a man's belief is. Masonry is not a strictly Christian fraternity. If you think that it's causing spiritual injury to your relationship with God, then it may not be for you. If you see it for what it is, and that's a beautiful system of morality, veiled in allegory and illustrated by symbols, you will further see how it will not interfere with your religious beliefs and you should fear no danger. It's a great fraternity that I think will bring you closer to God and spirituality.


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## Brother JC (Feb 21, 2016)

When we "invoke the Blessing of Deity," one Brother sees an elephant, one sees a bearded man in a cloud, one sees a woman, one sees a state of mind...
none of us are perfectly right, none are perfectly wrong, but each and every one of us sees our Creator, our Divine Spirit, our god. We have all reached the same place in our belief.
Don't get hung up on words and definitions when approaching the Divine. (My 2p.)


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## Albert_Emerich (Feb 21, 2016)

Hello. I'm a Catholic Christian and feel very comfortable in my lodge. When someone asked me for my religion, I said: all the paths that's lead me to the Light. 
As a science man, I think nobody really knows if God exist or not. If we have an eternal soul or don't. What happens once we are death. Nobody in this planet knows that. 
So, I choose to believe in God, but this is just faith. No evidence is required to have faith. 
You become a Mason when begins with this kind of questions, that's all. 

 

Enviado desde mi ONE E1003 mediante Tapatalk


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## Albert_Emerich (Feb 21, 2016)

By the way, sorry for my poor english skills... 

Enviado desde mi ONE E1003 mediante Tapatalk


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## pointwithinacircle2 (Feb 21, 2016)

The word "God" is a religious term.  It's definition has always been determined by the people who are in power in any given religion.  That is why different religions mean different things when they use the term.  However, I have come to believe that underneath the various religious definitions of God there are certain specific, scientific principles which govern spiritual phenomena.  I find this concept to be consistant with the idea of "_*that Religion in which all Men agree*".  _

Of course some people will be upset by my use of the words "scientific" and "God" in the some sentence.  This is usually because the people in power in their specific religion have taught them that God and science are enemies.  I see science simply as a word that denotes our accumulated understanding of what is real.  I see God as a word that denotes that which is not understood, but is just as real.


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## Ressam (Feb 21, 2016)

pointwithinacircle2 said:


> have taught them that God and science are enemies.



Scientists are materialist. They just don't believe that -- "soul is existing".
Actually, the issue is very simple:
Spirituality & materalism  *are not Oppositions*.
Spirituality is just -- *The Continuation* of Materia. More Perfect Occurence. Another Universe Law.


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## dfreybur (Feb 21, 2016)

paul2426 said:


> I know that masonry does not care what religion you are and allows you to believe whatever you want.



Right.  That should be the end of the discussion.  We require a belief in a supreme being.  We do NOT impose a definition of what that means.  We tell a story out of the Old Testament.  We do NOT require that our members be Jewish.  End.



> However, it seems to me that Mason's believe that all religions worship the same God



So why are you making this random sounding stuff up, knowing that we are forbidden from discussing religion in our meetings?  Lodge is supposed to be a sanctuary from this sort of divisive topic.



> and this is a belief that I simply cannot accept



If you want to make stuff and use it as an excuse to demit, go right ahead.  I'm not going to debate stuff that's made up about us.  You're imposing a definition, which we don't do.

You knew before joining that we have members of every religion you have ever heard of and many you haven't.  You knew before joining that when we perform our degrees we adopted you into our family and you adopted us into your family knowing full well that about our membership.  Now you're making stuff up after the fact?  Pass.


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## Ressam (Feb 21, 2016)

dfreybur said:


> We do NOT require that our members be Jewish. End.



Mr.Doug,
man of any ethnicity can become -- "Inspector General"(Scottish Rite)?


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## MarkR (Feb 22, 2016)

Of course, jurisdiction differ on these things, but nowhere in mine is it taught that we all worship "the same God."  Freemasonry here takes no position on that at all. What is required is that we all accept a creator god, a "Grand Architect," and how you envision that creator and how you worship is entirely between you and the deity.


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## MarkR (Feb 22, 2016)

Ressam said:


> Mr.Doug,
> man of any ethnicity can become -- "Inspector General"(Scottish Rite)?


Yes.


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## Bloke (Feb 22, 2016)

dfreybur said:


> Right.  That should be the end of the discussion.  We require a belief in a supreme being.  We do NOT impose a definition of what that means.  We tell a story out of the Old Testament.  We do NOT require that our members be Jewish.  End.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Based on some rituals, I can easily see how a Brother could come to such conclusions, and after discussion and though, he could easily come to a different one consistent with what is basically being said in this thread... i'm sympathetic because I've examined the same question but came to a conclusion that there is no group worship going on in a lodge.. each man being left to his own belief. I can worship in a car, doesn't mean a Ford (Holden !!*) is a Church...

*It's a make of an Australian Car... or it used to be...


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## Bloke (Feb 22, 2016)

I was thinking Craft when I made the Statement... but understand what you are saying...


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## Glen Cook (Feb 22, 2016)

Ressam said:


> Scientists are materialist. They just don't believe that -- "soul is existing".
> Actually, the issue is very simple:
> Spirituality & materalism  *are not Oppositions*.
> Spirituality is just -- *The Continuation* of Materia. More Perfect Occurence. Another Universe Law.


My son is a neuroscientist. He is also a dedicated Christian


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## Ressam (Feb 22, 2016)

Glen Cook said:


> My son is a neuroscientist. He is also a dedicated Christian



Congrats, Mr.Glen!
Hope Your son loves his job! 
Does Your son thinks that -- "Brain is The Temple of the Soul"?


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## flipster (Feb 23, 2016)

Glen Cook said:


> My son is a neuroscientist. He is also a dedicated Christian


My eye surgeon is a fine Christian man.  He always will ask his patient if he can pray with them before a procedure.  One can not make sweeping statements about an entire grouping of people.


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## Donald R. Hufham (Feb 23, 2016)

Brother Paul,        The Tenets of a Masons Profession ,    Brotherly Love, Relief And Truth.   By the Exercise of these tenets     We Become  Just And Upright Masons.   By this Practice We As A Whole  Will make This World A Better Place.      We Are Not Practicing Religion, But Practicing Morality . By Practicing Morality Your Tenets As A Christian Are Being FulFilled  With Honor.   Read your Bahnson.    Learn The Lectures With Heart   And You Will Better Understand Masonry.  
                Brotherly Love , Relief And Truth.


Fraternally,
Donald R. Hufham, M,CL
Atkinson, Lodge # 612
Atkinson, NC.


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## coachn (Feb 23, 2016)

paul2426 said:


> i was recently raised but have some questions that are making me feel a little uncomfortable most of which resolves around religion.



Congratulations!



paul2426 said:


> I know that masonry does not care what religion you are and allows you to believe whatever you want.



"Allow" is not something the society has control over.  Freemasonry encourages you to practice your belief.  That is all.  There is no "Faith Police" overseeing religious practice.



paul2426 said:


> However, it seems to me that Mason's believe that all religions worship the same God and this is a belief that I simply cannot accept as a Christian.



Although it may seem that way to you, members believe what they want to believe about other members; just as you have done here... along with your intolerance about your assumptions.



paul2426 said:


> This has been weighing heavily on me o the point of questioning if I should retract my membership from my lodge. I have family asking me if Jesus would have been a mason? Sounds crazy, I know, but it does make a point.



Yes.  It does indeed sound crazy.  You've imagined an intolerant situation, based upon unconfirmed assumptions and are ready to flush it all away based upon unfounded conclusions.



paul2426 said:


> Any insight brother Mason's can provide will be appreciated.



Please see last comment.



paul2426 said:


> Thanks for the insight. Like you say, just about every Christian point of view is negative.



Yet, there are quite a few that you're not being pummeled by that are quite positive.  Perhaps you're simply hanging with negative people who claim to be Christians, but truly are not Christ-like in their hearts.

Let me cite an example: *Jesus Heals a Centurion’s Servant*

5 Now when Jesus had entered Capernaum, a centurion came to Him, pleading with Him, 6 saying, “Lord, my servant is lying at home paralyzed, dreadfully tormented.”
7 And Jesus said to him, “I will come and heal him.”
8 The centurion answered and said, “Lord, I am not worthy that You should come under my roof. But only speak a word, and my servant will be healed. 9 For I also am a man under authority, having soldiers under me. And I say to this _one,_ ‘Go,’ and he goes; and to another, ‘Come,’ and he comes; and to my servant, ‘Do this,’ and he does _it._”
10 When Jesus heard _it,_ He marveled, and said to those who followed, “Assuredly, I say to you, I have not found such great faith, not even in Israel!  11 And I say to you that many will come from east and west, and sit down with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven.  12 But the sons of the kingdom will be cast out into outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”  13 Then Jesus said to the centurion, “Go your way; and as you have believed, _so_ let it be done for you.” And his servant was healed that same hour.

This is what Jesus did in similar situation when confronted with a man who believed differently.  He PRAISED him and put him forth as a good  EXAMPLE.  _*He was more concerned that a man had faith than what faith the man had.*_



paul2426 said:


> I would really like to meet a pastor or something that is a mason so I could pick their brain.



Ya got one.  Start picking.



paul2426 said:


> I guess I'm worried about getting to vested making friends and forming bonds with my new brothers. If I turn around feeling it's not for me, it will put me in a bad position.



I suggest you be more worried about those who would cause division between you and good men.  They are not after your best interests.



paul2426 said:


> As a Christian I of course do believe in a single God, but do not believe all religions worship the same God.



This is your personal view.  Everyone has his own.  Even Jesus accepted, supported and encouraged those who worshipped differently, as long as they had Faith!



paul2426 said:


> I do respect all other religions, just do not believe that they all have the same idea in who our creator is.



So What!  If you're looking to hang with those who have exactly your view, you're going to find the world a very lonely isolated place. 



paul2426 said:


> Or instance if someone was to tell me God looks like an elephant or something, I couldn't assume it's the same...  I just have a hard time generalizing all religions into one.



And no one within the society OR the society in general is asking you to do this.  This is something that you have assumed, latched on to and have run into the ground. 

Belief in God is the ONLY religious requirement to join.  Your religious views are not in question!  Yet, you are making every effort to question those of others.  That is NOT what our membership focuses upon, AT ALL!



paul2426 said:


> I'm really not trying to get into a debate, just wanting to know if freemasonry teaches that everyone's God is the same.



This is a religious view.  Freemasonry does not teach religious views.  Your quest is focused upon a dry well. 



paul2426 said:


> ...if everyone's God was the same, then there would be no reason for me to believe that Jesus is my savior since another religion doesn't believe in him... I am ok with everyone praying together and for your prayer to be to whoever your God is. I just want to know if masonry believes everyone's God is in fact the same God.



Freemasonry leaves belief in God in the hands of each member.  You're assuming a lot about Freemasonry that has nothing to do with Freemasonry.



paul2426 said:


> I'm not concerned if grand lodge allows different beliefs or religions.



Good!  



paul2426 said:


> Just asking if they assert that whatever your religion is, you are all worshiping the same God.



Freemasonry asserts nothing in this respect.  Almost every jurisdiction, like Jesus, is more concerned that you have a belief in God (as you understand God), than what faith you actually have and practice.

Also, Freemasons don't "worship God".  They believe in God.  Worship is left to the individual member to do in his own way and on his own time.



paul2426 said:


> Basically, what I am getting at is that for me to feel comfortable in being a member, I would have to hear that masonry requires a belief in A God,



Freemasonry requires a belief in God.  There!  Feel better!  



paul2426 said:


> ...but not require that we believe everyone's idea of who God is is the same.



Freemasonry has no such requirement.



paul2426 said:


> Of course I believe there is only one God that created everyone and everything, but someone else may have a completely different version of God.



It is not "may"; even Christians do battle to the death over whose version is correct.



paul2426 said:


> Like I said I really don't care if brothers believe in another God, just don't want to be told that everyone's version is ultimately the same



Actually, it does come across that you do care and that you do care a lot.



paul2426 said:


> I am new to masonry and hope I'm not ruffling any feathers.



It's gonna take a lot more than what you offered here to ruffle.



paul2426 said:


> I love the friends I'm making and enjoy the rituals and lodge, it's just the religious aspects that give me questions.



As they should!  Kudos for bringing them up.



paul2426 said:


> I not only want to figure it out for my own well being, but also so I can defend the craft and its ideas if need be.  I know I should be asking the brothers in my own lodge about this stuff and I probably will. I just don't want them to think I may leave after spending so much time teaching me the work.  Just trying to find clarity I guess.



Are you clearer now?


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## BodhiD (Feb 23, 2016)

paul2426 said:


> As a Christian I of course do believe in a single God, but do not believe all religions worship the same God. I do respect all other religions, just do not believe that they all have the same idea in who our creator is.  Or instance if someone was to tell me God looks like an elephant or something, I couldn't assume it's the same...  I just have a hard time generalizing all religions into one.



If you believe in a single God, I'm curious who/what you think "other religions" worship?  You should perhaps follow this line to its logical conclusion.

I also wonder if you think the Deity is overly concerned with what OUR idea(s) of him/her/it is?

If you're hoping to hear "sure, in Masonry, all religions are equal, but *some* are more equal than others" /wink wink... Sorry, but I hope you don't find what you're looking for, and you shouldn't in Freemasonry.

Just food for thought, I hope.


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## flipster (Feb 23, 2016)

Brother John, a well thought out and timely response.  I am not making light of bro. Paul's questions, but I don't think Jesus would have joined my bowling team, our local community orchestra, our historical society.  You get my drift.  The disciples gave up all, and joined Jesus.  It's a tough question, and each man needs to answer the questions themselves.  And beware of busy bodies from all walks of life who may not like the things we do.  By the way, John, I knew your name was familiar.  I went hunting and found it on Ira Beck Lodge.  Small world.   I hope we can meet some time.


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## Ressam (Feb 23, 2016)

flipster said:


> but I don't think Jesus would have joined my bowling team, our local community orchestra, our historical society.



Of course, I respect everyone Faith! It's obvious necessity for everyone. Respecting everyone's Religion!
But, IMHO(maybe I'm mistaken), many Christians have wrong understanding of -- "Why(*For what purpose*) Jesus'd come?"
They think that -- Jesus *came to -- die by takin' their sins*, atoning by death.
It's wrong. Jesus came for -- bringing "Good News"(εὐαγγέλιον) from God, Who is Loving everyone, equally.
He came for showing -- True Path. But, unfortunately, "Mission failed".
Just look at the sky, and see how many stars there.
Do you think that  -- all these Billion Stars, Galaxies, were being created "by accident", for *humans*,
so that -- our *purpose is  finally -- to die, dissapear(to Paradise forever)* one day? It's not serious.


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## flipster (Feb 23, 2016)

Ressam, the question I addressed was one put to John by his acquaintances: would Jesus join lodge.  The question could also then apply to my bowling team etc.  Your comment, "Mission failed" bewilders me.  I won't try to change your opinion.  It's just I have never heard that said about Jesus.  Oh, well.  Istanbul may see things differently than in this neck of the woods.


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## Bloke (Feb 24, 2016)

Respectfully; I think we' ve had a really good discussion on this, let's be careful not to let this get into an argument about an individual's faith or statements made about faith with which we disagree with the statements made, let's not get personal.  Let's not proselytize.


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## coachn (Feb 24, 2016)

flipster said:


> Brother John, a well thought out and timely response.  I am not making light of bro. Paul's questions, but I don't think Jesus would have joined my bowling team, our local community orchestra, our historical society.  You get my drift.



No.  Would you please go into more direct detail please?



flipster said:


> The disciples gave up all, and joined Jesus.



Only if you believe they each made a decision.  If they made a choice, then there was nothing that they gave up.  They merely chose to do and have something different.



flipster said:


> It's a tough question, and each man needs to answer the questions themselves.



What is this question you allude to?



flipster said:


> And beware of busy bodies from all walks of life who may not like the things we do.



Sage overall advice for sure!



flipster said:


> By the way, John, I knew your name was familiar.  I went hunting and found it on Ira Beck Lodge.  Small world.   I hope we can meet some time.



Me too!  I'll be at Clinton Lodge #175 on April 23 doing a Building Better Builders Workshop.  Can you make it?


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## dfreybur (Feb 24, 2016)

Ressam said:


> Of course, I respect everyone Faith!



I don't have to agree with a guy to respect him or his faith.

In fact I respect folks who don't have faith.  I just have zero interest in having them petition lodges.


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## Ressam (Feb 24, 2016)

flipster said:


> would Jesus join lodge.



Of course -- no.
Jesus is -- Everyone's Saviour, not only Freemasons'.
Jesus's Teaching is for everyone, not only for "Society with Secrets(Knowledge)".


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## flipster (Feb 24, 2016)

I'm not very good at discussion on forums.  I think I often skip putting my thought in writing.  John, about the Better Builders at Clinton Lodge, I would likely not attend.  I am pretty busy until about middle of April.  I hope it is a success.


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## Glen Cook (Feb 25, 2016)

flipster said:


> I'm not very good at discussion on forums. ....



Doesn't stop the rest of us!


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## Warrior1256 (Feb 28, 2016)

Glen Cook said:


> Doesn't stop the rest of us!


Lol.....very true.


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## Classical (Mar 3, 2016)

There are so many great answers here! I am a pastor, so obviously I don't think Christianity (even the fairly conservative/traditionalist versions) are in any way in conflict with Freemasonry! I find the philosophical system of Freemasonry to be tremendously supportive of my religious convictions and I also find the fellowship of Freemasonry likewise compatible. My advice is to enjoy being a Christian, practice the faith and enjoy being a Freemason!


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## Warrior1256 (Mar 3, 2016)

Classical said:


> There are so many great answers here! I am a pastor, so obviously I don't think Christianity (even the fairly conservative/traditionalist versions) are in any way in conflict with Freemasonry! I find the philosophical system of Freemasonry to be tremendously supportive of my religious convictions and I also find the fellowship of Freemasonry likewise compatible. My advice is to enjoy being a Christian, practice the faith and enjoy being a Freemason!


This is great. My pastor is not a Freemason but he doesn't have a problem with it.


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## The Traveling Man (Mar 13, 2016)

paul2426 said:


> i was recently raised but have some questions that are making me feel a little uncomfortable most of which resolves around religion.
> 
> I know that masonry does not care what religion you are and allows you to believe whatever you want. However, it seems to me that Mason's believe that all religions worship the same God and this is a belief that I simply cannot accept as a Christian.
> 
> ...



Masons do not worship one God, as Masonry isn't a religion. Masonry instructs you to read your own Sacred Law (whether that be the Bible, Koran, etc.). There are many ministers who are Masons and there's nothing in Masonry that conflicts with your duty to your Deity. Because you mentioned the thought of retracting your membership I was wondering if you are currently a member or a Lodge, just curious, have petitioned or are you currently waiting to be Initiated?


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## pipoyviste (Aug 7, 2016)

If you traveled well in the rough and rugged road no further question shall be made


Sent From My Freemasonry Pro App


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## Bloke (Aug 7, 2016)

pipoyviste said:


> If you traveled well in the rough and rugged road no further question shall be made
> 
> 
> Sent From My Freemasonry Pro App



Ummmm...okay... but i doubt that response is gonna work..


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## coachn (Aug 7, 2016)

Bloke said:


> Ummmm...okay... but i doubt that response is gonna work..


LOL!  I'm glad you said it.


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## Warrior1256 (Aug 7, 2016)

Bloke said:


> Ummmm...okay... but i doubt that response is gonna work..





coachn said:


> LOL!  I'm glad you said it.


Uhhh....I'm ashamed to admit that I don't even know what the refered to statement means.


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## coachn (Aug 7, 2016)

Warrior1256 said:


> Uhhh....I'm ashamed to admit that I don't even know what the refered to statement means.


re: Post #51


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## Warrior1256 (Aug 8, 2016)

coachn said:


> re: Post #51


I know, that is the post that I do not understand.


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## coachn (Aug 8, 2016)

Warrior1256 said:


> I know, that is the post that I do not understand.


What's  understand?  It's nonsense.


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## Warrior1256 (Aug 8, 2016)

coachn said:


> What's  understand?  It's nonsense.


Lol, then I guess that is why I didn't understand it. As a two year MM I thought that this was something that I should understand but had not run into yet.


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## coachn (Aug 8, 2016)

Warrior1256 said:


> Lol, then I guess that is why I didn't understand it. As a two year MM I thought that this was something that I should understand but had not run into yet.


From my view, it does not even qualify as fertile thought.


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## Bloke (Aug 8, 2016)

coachn said:


> From my view, it does not even qualify as fertile thought.


Only because youve not yet done the 103.587645 degree. You're inadequate and must make much more effort to obtain true light *presents proposition application for 103.5 degree requiring $75 application fee*


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## coachn (Aug 8, 2016)

Bloke said:


> Only because youve not yet done the 103.587645 degree. You're inadequate and must make much more effort to obtain true light *presents proposition application for 103.5 degree requiring $75 application fee*


But I already paid twice and a third and took that degree three times!!!!


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## Bloke (Aug 8, 2016)

coachn said:


> But I already paid twice and a third and took that degree three times!!!!


But not in my super-dooper-ancient-accepted-august&supreme Terrestrial lodge which works under the Ex-terrestrial Lodge... you know the one...

You've been duped.... but I can help... really, I can.... please send me money which I need not only to help pray for your masonic success, but to buy new incense, candles and swords necessary for your advancement...


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## coachn (Aug 9, 2016)

Bloke said:


> But not in my super-dooper-ancient-accepted-august&supreme Terrestrial lodge which works under the Ex-terrestrial Lodge... you know the one...
> 
> You've been duped.... but I can help... really, I can.... please send me money which I need not only to help pray for your masonic success, but to buy new incense, candles and swords necessary for your advancement...


<sigh> Okay, I had no idea!  Where do I send the money?


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## Bloke (Aug 9, 2016)

coachn said:


> <sigh> Okay, I had no idea!  Where do I send the money?


I climbed through your window last night and made off with the equivalent and appropriate amount of your personal wealth (at porn shop prices).


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## Warrior1256 (Aug 9, 2016)

Bloke said:


> Only because youve not yet done the 103.587645 degree. You're inadequate and must make much more effort to obtain true light *presents proposition application for 103.5 degree requiring $75 application fee*


Lol....good one.


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## dfreybur (Aug 9, 2016)

Warrior1256 said:


> I know, that is the post that I do not understand.



The wording is very close to a part near the middle of my long California third degree proficiency.


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## BullDozer Harrell (Aug 9, 2016)

paul2426 said:


> I'm really not trying to get into a debate, just wanting to know if freemasonry teaches that everyone's God is the same.  if everyone's God was the same, then there would be no reason for me to believe that Jesus is my savior since another religion doesn't believe in him... I am ok with everyone praying together and for your prayer to be to whoever your God is. I just want to know if masonry believes everyone's God is in fact the same God.


Whomever is telling you these things are leading you by their own personal opinions and perceptions of Masonry.

Be cautious and learn to judge Masonry by your own experience. Even great writers of Masonry, like Mackey, Pike, Morris etc can only help you so much.

You're the best judge for yourself as you experience more Freemasonry.


paul2426 said:


> i was recently raised but have some questions that are making me feel a little uncomfortable most of which resolves around religion.
> 
> I know that masonry does not care what religion you are and allows you to believe whatever you want. However, it seems to me that Mason's believe that all religions worship the same God and this is a belief that I simply cannot accept as a Christian.
> 
> ...




Sent from my SM-T377P using My Freemasonry Pro mobile app


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## Warrior1256 (Aug 12, 2016)

BullDozer Harrell said:


> You're the best judge for yourself as you experience more Freemasonry.


This is exactly what my mentor told me.


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## Center (Aug 18, 2017)

Being Christian is an abstract concept to me. The study of the history of the Christianity taught me that there are more Christian  currents, and some of them  have differences really remarkable. I think a free thinker,  could possibly open himself to the more o less irrational dimension of his faith, but also should question with his marvelous and allegedly limited mind the origin of his own religion, and not accepting it on the base that is born in this way. Is just my personal opinion as seeker of the light and as Christian that studies with respect and unutterable zeal the Judaic tradition, the ancient mysteries and the constitutive and comparative influence on them by the  really old western religions. Then I would say cum gran salis and prudence that the concept of Architect is really coincident with my personal opinion of Christian, and also that is claimed by some Freemasons that in some appendant bodies the concept of Christianity can be  further become matter of observation, introspection and study. After all Gnosis Seauton(Ken Uzelf, know thyself) was written on the front of the door of a Dutch Masonic temple I visited few months ago.


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## Derek Harvey (Aug 18, 2017)

For me I assume they use the Gaotu term so as not to offend any brother who may have a different religion.  I too am Christian. 

Sent from my SM-G360T1 using My Freemasonry mobile app


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## coachn (Aug 19, 2017)

Derek Harvey said:


> For me I assume they use the Gaotu term so as not to offend any brother who may have a different religion.  I too am Christian.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G360T1 using My Freemasonry mobile app


You can take it to be for that reason.  However, a less PC socially conscious reason is that the GAotU term is merely a denotation for "God" that is in line with the theme of Masonry, which is "Building" and makes the created role-playing game have more continuity for all those involved.


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## Derek Harvey (Aug 19, 2017)

Thanks for that information 

Sent from my SM-G360T1 using My Freemasonry mobile app


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## Warrior1256 (Aug 19, 2017)

coachn said:


> However, a less PC socially conscious reason is that the GAotU term is merely a denotation for "God" that is in line with the theme of Masonry, which is "Building" and makes the role-playing game created for all those involved have more continuity.


There are many ways to look at one subject.


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## coachn (Aug 19, 2017)

Warrior1256 said:


> There are many ways to look at one subject.


Yep.  But when your non-off road tires stray off the well-paved path and onto soft "out of context" and unclear shoulders, you're vehicle is likely to suffer greatly from performance incompatibilities and, by default, so are the passengers.


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## Warrior1256 (Aug 19, 2017)

coachn said:


> Yep. But when your non-off road tires stray off the well-paved path and onto soft "out of context" and unclear shoulders, you're vehicle is likely to suffer greatly from performance incompatibilities and, by default, so are the passengers.


Sometimes true!


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## David612 (Aug 19, 2017)

Ultimately it's my opinion that if you feel that it conflicts with what you perceive to be your duty to your faith no amount of rational reasoning form the internet will help.
personally, as many have said before me, i believe the term GAOTU is used for the individuals to internally subsitute their own faith to what ever extent they feel is required.


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## SCStrong (Aug 20, 2017)

Brother JC said:


> Don't get hung up on words and definitions when approaching the Divine. (My 2p.)


Well said.  I think we, as humans, try too hard to assign a definition to something that in not definable. We try  to limit God to our understanding and I think we forget that He is not bound to the laws of physics nor limited by our understanding.
But, to answer the question:
 I am  Christian but I have yet to find anything in Masonry  that interferes with my faith and or contradicts it.   My understanding is that Masonry is not universal - ist in its approach to God  - but it acknowledges that men may approach God differently.

 It does not force one Brother to accept the beliefs of another but instead, allows them to approach their own God without infringing on any other's rights. It lets them approach God together but separately all at the same time.
  It allows us to come together and share a spiritual moment without division.

( When I pray in the lodge  - I am praying to my God...... the God of Abraham and Jacob -  The Christian God -   the Father Almighty. If the Brother standing next to me is praying to a different God...... that is his business.)

Masonry, as it was explained to me, is not a religion as it offers no dogma,  no path to salvation, and no theology. It requires a man to believe in a Supreme Being because if a man does not feel obligated to a higher power he has  no one / nothing   to be accountable to...... Without a God, a man can have not true moral center.  ( One man's humble, poorly written opinion)  Peace, Brothers


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## Derek Harvey (Aug 20, 2017)

Oh I like that

Sent from my SM-G360T1 using My Freemasonry mobile app


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## Center (Aug 21, 2017)

At this purpose it is just popping up in mind for the few that do not know it, the book from Mario Livio
The Golden Ratio: The story of Phi, the world's most astonishing number.


Kinda does not matter if you pray in a Jewish synagogue or in a Buddhist temple, both in Israel and in China the symmetrical geometry of the nature will be the same whatever people is going to preach


EDIT:Actually there is a bit of math, but quite easy in the book


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## pointwithinacircle2 (Aug 25, 2017)

I recently heard a TED talk which proposed the idea that language is experienced in the left hemisphere and spirituality is experienced in the right side.  That the part of the brain that creates descriptions cannot experience spirituality, it can only observe it.  Might be worth a listen:


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## coachn (Aug 25, 2017)

pointwithinacircle2 said:


> I recently heard a TED talk which proposed the idea that language is experienced in the left hemisphere and spirituality is experienced in the right side.  That the part of the brain that creates descriptions cannot experience spirituality, it can only observe it.  Might be worth a listen:


I have seen this video before.  Very interesting.


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