# "The Big East opens for Women"



## Blake Bowden (Aug 25, 2010)

http://www.lefigaro.fr/actualite-fr...00104-le-grand-orient-s-ouvre-aux-femmes-.php

Translated:

The decision of the utmost obedience in France closes a debate that lasted for years.

Surprise move Friday at the Grand Orient of France. This first assignment Freemason in France, always remained male, has officially decided to admit women into its midst. It becomes a de facto obedience where the boxes are free to initiate women, without becoming a formal obedience mixed. This decision thus closes a debate that divided the Grand Orient for many years .

Subsequent Conventions - annual general meetings of autumn - the prospect of admitting women in the boxes was regularly voted but never find a majority in favor.

Initiations "wild"
At the point of causing internal damage as last September , in Lyon, where several delegates had left the meeting in protest. Stormy meeting in the context where several lodges of Grand Orient had chosen not to wait for approval and were conducted initiations "savages" of six women at risk of exclusion. Procedures had even been launched against them at the national level.

To resolve this problem the way chosen by the grand master, Pierre Lambicchi was not proposing a new meeting time this issue but to seize an internal committee responsible. That is to say the Supreme Chamber Masonic Justice (CSJM). This body is able to evaluate and then decide on the application of internal regulations.

When asked whether it was contrary to the rules of the Grand Orient lodges that can initiate women, she said at a meeting April 8, there was nothing wrong in the internal regulations of this boxes that take the initiative.

Its implementation is immediate since it is prescribed. It should, however, satisfy many of the 47,000 members of the Grand Orient, as the decision remains subject to each of 1,150 boxes.

Opposition to this measure was in effect often associated with culture and history of boxes and not specific to the authority as such which regularly hosts "Sisters" to work together.


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## Jamesb (Aug 25, 2010)

This is why I will never allow women into my blue lodge...reading this is like reading the mind of a crazy person.  I read it three times and it make absolutely no sense.


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## Dave in Waco (Aug 25, 2010)

Jamesb said:


> I read it three times and it make absolutely no sense.


 
Well said!!


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## Blake Bowden (Aug 25, 2010)

Gotta love google translate.


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## Wingnut (Aug 25, 2010)

so... we will no longer recognize any of the French lodges?


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## tomasball (Aug 25, 2010)

We never recognized the Grand Orient of France, at least in modern memory.  We do recognize the National Grand Lodge of France.  It all goes back to the "culture and history of boxes," I suppose.


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## Jamesb (Aug 26, 2010)

If we as Masons ever allow "Boxes" to join I am leaving.  For when we start allowing paper products where does it stop.  Oh, unless the Orental French are speaking in the Vernacular about "Boxes" which is just wrong.


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## owls84 (Aug 26, 2010)

That is good James. I got a little chuckle out of it.


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## tom268 (Sep 3, 2010)

Since this decision of the Grand Orient, the recognized GL in France is growing fast. It seems, not all members agree with the grand decision.


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## tomasball (Sep 6, 2010)

tom268 said:


> Since this decision of the Grand Orient, the recognized GL in France is growing fast. It seems, not all members agree with the grand decision.


 
Where can I read about that growth?  I'm curious how easy it is for members of the GO to join the GLNF.  Wouldn't work here.


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## Frater Cliff Porter (Sep 6, 2010)

Some of the members that are opposed to women are going to be illuminist Atheist who, although would like a male obedience, would not find a home in the Grand Lodge of France, because the GLoF requires a belief in Deity


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## tom268 (Sep 7, 2010)

Sorry, I don't have a source for that, it came out of a talk I had with a brother, who is quite active in France.

Cliff is correct, before this decision, the GOdF attracted many atheistic males into its ranks. It is also very politically active in the french society. But there are other irregular, male only grand lodges in France. Those, who have no problem with belief usually join the regular Grand Loge National.
Here it is not such a problem, to become regular. You have to petition at a lodge and you need the OK of the grand master.

I don't know if the person needs to get through the whole degrees again, but I believe, that only a new obligation to the rules of the new GL is needed.

I don't know how irregular masons are handled in Texas, but I have heard from US brothers, that they have the opinion, that they aren't even allowed to talk to them. That is surely different here. Irregular masons are treated as any other profane. We respect the person, but we don't consider him/her a mason.


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## Bill Lins (Sep 8, 2010)

tom268 said:


> I don't know how irregular masons are handled in Texas, but I have heard from US brothers, that they have the opinion, that they aren't even allowed to talk to them. That is surely different here. Irregular masons are treated as any other profane. We respect the person, but we don't consider him/her a mason.


 
Same here. We cannot have _Masonic_ communication with them, but otherwise no difference.


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## Christopher (Sep 8, 2010)

My understanding is that there are no irregular lodges in Texas.  I know there are a handful in the US, but from what I understand, they're all in the Northeast.  Am I wrong?


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## tomasball (Sep 8, 2010)

What an amazing notion!  Suggest you start by looking up the thread on the Regular Grand Lodge of Texas.


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## Christopher (Sep 8, 2010)

Interesting.  Thanks for the tip.


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## Bill Lins (Sep 8, 2010)

Not to mention the Most Worshipful Scottish Rite Grand Lodge, headquartered in the Fourth Ward on Andrews, whose "Grand Medical Officer" is the doctor accused of killing Michael Jackson.


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## Frater Cliff Porter (Sep 9, 2010)

Bogus Grand Lodges
in Texas



Company Information: MOST WORSHIPFUL ABRAHAM GRAND LODGE ANCIENT FREE A 
     4302 DACCA DR
     HOUSTON, TX 77047-1234
Status: IN GOOD STANDING - EXEMPT CORPORATION 
Registered Agent: EDWARD MARTIN HUNTER
     4302 DACCA DRIVE 
     HOUSTON, TX 77047 
Registered Agent Resignation Date: 
State of Incorporation: TX 
File Number: 0035332901 
Charter/COA Date: December 13, 1974 
Charter/COA Type: Charter 
Taxpayer Number: 30002320486 




Company Information: MOST WORSHIPFUL JACOB GRAND MASONIC LODGE ANCIENT 
     14534 LORNE
     HOUSTON, TX 77049-4314
Status: NOT IN GOOD STANDING 
Registered Agent: RONALD E YOUNG
     14534 LORNE
     HOUSTON, TX 77049 
Registered Agent Resignation Date: 
State of Incorporation: TX 
File Number: 0137212201 
Charter/COA Date: September 29, 1995 
Charter/COA Type: Charter 
Taxpayer Number: 17604817886 




Company Information: MOST WORSHIPFUL JOSHUA GRAND LODGE ANCIENT FREE
     9319 CORNER OAKS LN
     HOUSTON, TX 77036-8601
Status: NOT IN GOOD STANDING 
Registered Agent: DONALD JONES
     9319 CORNER OAKS LN 
     HOUSTON, TX 77036 
Registered Agent Resignation Date: 
State of Incorporation: TX 
File Number: 0120586901 
Charter/COA Date: September 16, 1991 
Charter/COA Type: Charter 
Taxpayer Number: 30114834523 




Company Information: MOST WORSHIPFUL MOUNT BELLVIEW GRAND LODGE AF-AM 
     4705 NICHOLS ST %BANKS RICHARD SR
     HOUSTON, TX 77020-2705
Status: NOT IN GOOD STANDING 
Registered Agent: SR BANKS RICHARD
     4705 NICHOLS
     HOUSTON, TX 77020 
Registered Agent Resignation Date: 
State of Incorporation: TX 
File Number: 0113015401 
Charter/COA Date: October 16, 1989 
Charter/COA Type: Charter 
Taxpayer Number: 30113585993 




Company Information: MOST WORSHIPFUL MOUNT CARMEL GRAND LODGE OF ANCIEN 
     1704 E 12TH ST
     AUSTIN, TX 78702-2139
Status: NOT IN GOOD STANDING 
Registered Agent: WILLIAM C STEELE
     1704 E 12TH ST
     AUSTIN, TX 78702 
Registered Agent Resignation Date: 
State of Incorporation: TX 
File Number: 0009148601 
Charter/COA Date: June 20, 1951 
Charter/COA Type: Charter 
Taxpayer Number: 32000691660 




Company Information: MOST WORSHIPFUL MOUNT CARMEL GRANDLODGE A F & A M 
DBA CALIFORNIA MOST WORSHIPFUL MOUNT CARMEL GRANDLODGE
     1452 E FERNROCK ST
     CARSON, CA 90746-3106
Status: IN GOOD STANDING NOT FOR DISSOLUTION OR WITHDRAWAL through May 15, 2006 
Registered Agent: BEATRICE RUGELEY
     5511 THURST STREET
     HOUSTON, TX 77033 
Registered Agent Resignation Date: 
State of Incorporation: CA 
File Number: 0012687907 
Charter/COA Date: May 28, 1999 
Charter/COA Type: COA 
Taxpayer Number: 32001580805 




Company Information: MOST WORSHIPFUL MOUNT LEBANON GRAND LODGE, A F & A 
     PO BOX 667
     MILLICAN, TX 77866-0667
Status: IN GOOD STANDING - EXEMPT CORPORATION 
Registered Agent: ABRAHAM JOHNSON
     5635 TRAFALGAR
     HOUSTON, TX 77085 
Registered Agent Resignation Date: 
State of Incorporation: TX 
File Number: 0028096601 
Charter/COA Date: September 25, 1970 
Charter/COA Type: Charter 
Taxpayer Number: 30000921459 




Company Information: MOST WORSHIPFUL NEW COVENANT GRAND LODGE A F & A M 
     18054 GLENLEDI DR
     HOUSTON, TX 77084-5907
Status: NOT IN GOOD STANDING 
Registered Agent: EARLY J COPELAND
     18054 GLENLEDI 
     HOUSTON, TX 77084 
Registered Agent Resignation Date: 
State of Incorporation: TX 
File Number: 0800169009 
Charter/COA Date: January 24, 2003 
Charter/COA Type: Charter 
Taxpayer Number: 32010406463 




Company Information: MOST WORSHIPFUL ST JOHN GRAND LODGE, ANCIENT FREE 
     7418 MALLARD DR
     TEXAS CITY, TX 77591-3612
Status: NOT IN GOOD STANDING 
Registered Agent: JOHN N WYATT
     1602 WHITE WING CIRCLE 
     FRIENDSWOOD, TX 77546 
Registered Agent Resignation Date: 
State of Incorporation: TX 
File Number: 0160630001
Charter/COA Date: November 20, 2000 
Charter/COA Type: Charter 
Taxpayer Number: 17605845852 




Company Information: SUPREME GRAND CHAPTER ORDER OF EASTERN STAR 
     7440 COFFEE ST
     HOUSTON, TX 77033-3456
Status: IN GOOD STANDING NOT FOR DISSOLUTION OR WITHDRAWAL through May 15, 2006 
Registered Agent: ETHEL M HAYES 
     7440 COFFEE
     HOUSTON, TX 77033 
Registered Agent Resignation Date: 
State of Incorporation: TX 
File Number: 0137659401 
Charter/COA Date: November 9, 1995 
Charter/COA Type: Charter 
Taxpayer Number: 30118263687 




Company Information: SUPREME GRAND COUNCIL AND ENCAMPMENT ORDER OF THE 
     7440 COFFEE ST
     HOUSTON, TX 77033-3456
Status: NOT IN GOOD STANDING 
Registered Agent: EDNA HEYWOOD-COX
     7440 COFFEE ST.
     HOUSTON, TX 77033 
Registered Agent Resignation Date: 
State of Incorporation: TX 
File Number: 0140777601 
Charter/COA Date: July 17, 1996 
Charter/COA Type: Charter 
Taxpayer Number: 30118857520 




Company Information: UNIVERSAL GRAND LODGE OF TEXAS A F &A M 
     670 LOUIS HENNA BLVD APT 908
     ROUND ROCK, TX 78664-7372
Status: IN GOOD STANDING NOT FOR DISSOLUTION OR WITHDRAWAL through November 1, 2006 
Registered Agent: WILLIAM A. LOCKWOOD
     670 LOUIS HENNA BLVD. #908
     ROUND ROCK, TX 78664 
Registered Agent Resignation Date: 
State of Incorporation: TX 
File Number: 0800527630 
Charter/COA Date: August 4, 2005 
Charter/COA Type: Charter 
Taxpayer Number: 32017945398 




Company Information: ANCIENT FREE AND ACCEPTED MASONS OF TEMPLE #4 INC 
     4055 W BELLFORT ST
     HOUSTON, TX 77025-5306
Status: IN GOOD STANDING NOT FOR DISSOLUTION OR WITHDRAWAL through April 17, 2006 
Registered Agent: KEVIN T BINDER
     4055 WEST BELFORT
     HOUSTON, TX 77025 
Registered Agent Resignation Date: 
State of Incorporation: TX 
File Number: 0800441702 
Charter/COA Date: January 18, 2005 
Charter/COA Type: Charter 
Taxpayer Number: 32016571724




Company Information: PRINCE HALL GRAND CHAPTER OES OF TEXAS 
(Not in amity with MWPHGL of Tx)
     3433 MARTIN LUTHER KING FWY STE 2
     FORT WORTH, TX 76119-2815
Status: NOT IN GOOD STANDING 
Registered Agent: DOROTHY M YOUNG 
     3433 MARTIN LUTHER KING FREEWAY, ST
     FORT WORTH, TX 76119 
Registered Agent Resignation Date: 
State of Incorporation: TX 
File Number: 0144807901 
Charter/COA Date: June 2, 1997 
Charter/COA Type: Charter 
Taxpayer Number: 30119828793 




Company Information: UNITED MOST WORSHIPFUL SCOTTISH RITE GRAND LODGE, 
     1102 ANDREWS ST
     HOUSTON, TX 77019-5120
Status: IN GOOD STANDING - EXEMPT CORPORATION 
Registered Agent: TERRY L. HOWARD
     1102 ANDREWS 
     HOUSTON, TX 77019 
Registered Agent Resignation Date: 
State of Incorporation: TX 
File Number: 0003636401 
Charter/COA Date: May 5, 1921 
Charter/COA Type: Charter 
Taxpayer Number: 32016338728 




Company Information: UNITED SUPREME COUNCL THE ANCIENT ACCEPTED SCOTTI 
     1102 ANDREWS ST # 13408
     HOUSTON, TX 77019-5120
Status: NOT IN GOOD STANDING 
Registered Agent: LAURENCE H BOSTICK
     1102 ANDREWS ST. 
     HOUSTON, TX 77019 
Registered Agent Resignation Date: 
State of Incorporation: 
File Number: 0008016707 
Charter/COA Date: May 8, 1989 
Charter/COA Type: COA 
Taxpayer Number: 30113394206 




M. W. KING SOLOMON GRAND LODGE OF ANCIENT SCOTTISH RITE MASONS
Business Type*: CORPORATION 
Profit/Nonprofit: 
Status*: INACTIVE 
Date of Formation/Qualification: 06/07/1932 
Domestic/Foreign: DOMESTIC 
Place of Incorporation/Organization: SHELBY 
Duration: PERPETUAL 
FYC(Fiscal Year Closing) Month: JUNE 
Principal Office: 
     Address Line 1: ROUTE 4, BOX 38 
     Address Line 2: 
     City: MEMPHIS 
     State: TN 
     Zip: 000000000


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## Bill Lins (Sep 9, 2010)

Had to ask, didn't you?  :wink:

Actually, the following _IS_ a righteous Lodge- Temple #4

Company Information: ANCIENT FREE AND ACCEPTED MASONS OF TEMPLE #4 INC 
4055 W BELLFORT ST
HOUSTON, TX 77025-5306
Status: IN GOOD STANDING NOT FOR DISSOLUTION OR WITHDRAWAL through April 17, 2006 
Registered Agent: KEVIN T BINDER
4055 WEST BELFORT
HOUSTON, TX 77025 
Registered Agent Resignation Date: 
State of Incorporation: TX 
File Number: 0800441702 
Charter/COA Date: January 18, 2005 
Charter/COA Type: Charter 
Taxpayer Number: 32016571724


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## Frater Cliff Porter (Sep 10, 2010)

Oops, sorry about that.  Good catch.


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## athelstane839 (May 29, 2013)

Stop being sexist brothers understand freemasonry transcends the flesh and gender you still only functioning on a male vibration won't you study Sophia. The password to the knight Templars 
Stop beating on your chest bc we all live out our lives with woman fall in love with woman even be willing to kill for woman give up all our riches for woman. Some of us have daughters so what are we suppose to tell of our daughters" no honey you can't join freemasonry bc they still think like the 1700"s that men are more important than woman and that's the reason you cant join the craft that god has given his children" grow up already this mind state is setting masonry back i love what france decide to do by letting woman join about time they realize the global change of equal rights for all. We need to just open woman only lodges and allow females to join but we rather be like cavemen's " no me mason you woman you not smart like me man" please stop the bull! Who are we to judge if someone can or can not be allow. 
( taken from the ritual ) 
What makes you a mason? 
Being a freeman and of law full age 
Genesis 2:23 read it.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Biblical woman can be a mason bc there are a version of man and was made from man!!!!!! Step ya way of thinking up!!!!!!!!!! 

If woman decided to take a action law suit out on the bases of equality they can very well force there way into our lodges so before that happens if it does that happen lets at least prepare for the change for the evolution of the craft just like New York is doing little by little. 
Thank god I'm a ny mason!!!!!





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## crono782 (May 29, 2013)

I think it is sad that some folks say that there should be no place for men to come together as brothers and call it their own, even Fraternities. *sigh* It seems the PC police are never satisfied though. 

Private organizations can restrict their membership how they see fit. Masonry is not relying on public funding for its existence. A CA lawsuit is unlikely to end well.


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## bupton52 (May 29, 2013)

athelstane839 said:


> If woman decided to take a action law suit out on the bases of equality they can very well force there way into our lodges so before that happens if it does that happen lets at least prepare for the change for the evolution of the craft just like New York is doing little by little.
> Thank god I'm a ny mason!!!!!
> 
> Freemason Connect Mobile



I would like to draw your attention to the forum rules with regard to information taken from the ritual: 



Masonic ritual work ("memory work") shall not be posted on these forums, including the Sanctum Sanctorum area. This is a public forum, not a tyled Lodge.

Also, how is New York preparing for the evolution of the craft? What is it that they are doing?


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## athelstane839 (May 29, 2013)

You have to keep in mind its what the grand master decides what is a rite and noti cant speak for him but i been told by many grand line officers there are planing to allow co-masonry in new York. But I can't speak for what the outcome may or may not be. 
 I was referencing Ritual to show woman are allow to join its doesn't have be a tyled lodge I'm not writing the whole lecture word for word here it for my agreement their no need to tell me what can and can not be written im a master mason like you all i no what can and can not be spoken about. but hopefully the hoodwink of intolerance towards woman may come to an end at least in my generation but for this to happen we men with open minds must support our woman. Genesis 2:23 is there line into masonry and remember brothers what's the great light of masonry. You can not change the word of god to fit what you want it to fit. 
The brother who responded to me thank you was getting bored lol. But bring this agreement within lodge and see how be go left and right it's truly a screen 


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## bupton52 (May 29, 2013)

athelstane839 said:


> i been told by many grand line officers there are planing to allow co-masonry in new York
> Freemason Connect Mobile



Is this the Grand Lodge of New York that is thinking about this? I am almost certain that recognition would be pulled from them immediately. Sorry, I just don't see that happening.


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## tomasball (May 29, 2013)

Athelstane 839, your profile says you are not a mason.  I can't imagine what "New York" body you are referring to, that has "many grand line officers" "planing" to allow co-masonry there.


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## athelstane839 (May 29, 2013)

Idk know how to work the profile I'm a master mason in good standing my lodge is athelstane lodge number 839 located in pearl river ny. 
Ready to be tested at any point 
Im also a member of aasr for valley of the Hudson and a member of Mecca Shriner. Ram chapter 204 and member Oes chapter 371 

I got a question does Texas have tylers oath. Bc in new York we don't I went to jersey and they pressed me for the Tyler's oath so I had to show them my
Dues card and go and adjust the square and compasses on the great light was thinking of taking a vacation to Texas want to know if ya have a oath. 

Let me ask ya a question well to brother who says there pull our charters. Who issues charters to lodges in Texas  the grand lodge of Texas correct not England correct not since 1734 has ny been a provincial lodge meaning under the authority of the crown no one could pull a grand lodge charter at least not ny they can not recognize us that's all.  
Who cares who recognize us where one doesn't another will recognize Us. 

So how u update the profile ya should join the grand college of rite and see how many version of masonry there all. 



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## athelstane839 (May 29, 2013)

The grand line been talking any asking brothers to could be a while or may never happen no the less it's being talked about. 

Ny paves the way for masonry grotto Shriners co-masonry just another to join. 

Woman will only be with woman 
Men with men 
And possible a mix but it won't be a rite but an order like Oes. 


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## athelstane839 (May 29, 2013)

No it be an order like eastern stars. 
We're do you think masonry started bc it didn't start In England that when they organize masonry. 
Who think the first grand master was 
Answer these questions before I go any further in this convo bc it's not Solomon of h.a ? 






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## crono782 (May 29, 2013)

Yeah I just can't fathom that NY would play with fire like that. Only looking at it from the lodge level (non-traveling mason), having recognition pulled doesn't sound terrible. On the GL level, it's suicide if you ask me. 


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## tomasball (May 29, 2013)

athelstane839 said:


> No it be an order like eastern stars.
> We're do you think masonry started bc it didn't start In England that when they organize masonry.
> Who think the first grand master was
> Answer these questions before I go any further in this convo bc it's not Solomon of h.a ?
> ...



Actually, I don't think I will.  Ciao.


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## crono782 (May 29, 2013)

athelstane839 said:


> No it be an order like eastern stars.
> We're do you think masonry started bc it didn't start In England that when they organize masonry.
> Who think the first grand master was
> Answer these questions before I go any further in this convo bc it's not Solomon of h.a ?


 In my personal opinion, freemasonry did not start as far back as king Solomon nor was it spawned from the knights Templar. I believe masonry began in its current form during renaissance Europe. Such was when the operative stonemason guilds phased to speculative freemasonry. It is of my view that the Solomon/Hiram abiff legend is purely allegorical. 



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## bupton52 (May 29, 2013)

athelstane839 said:


> Let me ask ya a question well to brother who says there pull our charters. Who issues charters to lodges in Texas  the grand lodge of Texas correct not England correct not since 1734 has ny been a provincial lodge meaning under the authority of the crown no one could pull a grand lodge charter at least not ny they can not recognize us that's all.
> Who cares who recognize us where one doesn't another will recognize Us.
> 
> Freemason Connect Mobile



Grand Lodges are not chartered. Grand Lodges issue charters to subordinate lodges. I can only say that if that did happen, other GLs will probably pull recognition from them, the PH GLs will probably pull recognition, and the UGLE would pull recognition. It can get cold out there all by yourself. It would be a travesty to see the GL of NY become just another blip in the world my brother.


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## bupton52 (May 29, 2013)

athelstane839 said:


> No it be an order like eastern stars.
> We're do you think masonry started bc it didn't start In England that when they organize masonry.
> Who think the first grand master was
> Answer these questions before I go any further in this convo bc it's not Solomon of h.a ?
> ...



How long have you been traveling?


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## athelstane839 (May 29, 2013)

Been traveling four years. 

We just recognize ph lodges. In my not to long ago. And ph has a great set up for female masons. Lady knights etc

Co-masonry 
Remember the Shriners were did it start ny look at it now all over. When we do it others will follow It's ny. Than when its gets to Texas ya could do it bigger lol everything bigger in Texas. 

Remember this is just Being talked about doesn't mean it"ll happen 

this blog thing ya Texas mason got is nice I'm have to make one for ny very well done. 

Read Hiram key masonry started in Egypt read also a book call stolen legacy.  



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## bupton52 (May 29, 2013)

athelstane839 said:


> Been traveling four years.
> 
> We just recognize ph lodges. In my not to long ago. And ph has a great set up for female masons. Lady knights etc
> 
> ...



Stolen Legacy?? What is your name bro? I know a few brothers in New York that have interesting views about that book. 

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## athelstane839 (May 29, 2013)

Bro. Michael olmo 


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## Bro. Vincent (May 29, 2013)

tomasball said:


> Actually, I don't think I will.  Ciao.



I think the answer you are looking for is Imhotep. And to correct one thing the craft did not start in Egypt(khmet)It started before them... They are direct descendants of the Nubians and and the people's of ancient Kush( Ethiopia).

Stolen Legacy is a great document. But Mr. James had a few inaccuracies. As all historical documents do... But I would say he and Dr. Ben were at least 80% correct in the research.


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## athelstane839 (May 29, 2013)

What


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## athelstane839 (May 29, 2013)

Very good. I still believe Egypt to be the cradle but I see why kush could be two. 

The god Thoth everyone should study


The what was a person I was trying to text my bad. 


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## Bro. Vincent (May 29, 2013)

I read the Hiram Key as well. My biggest issue in that document is tge blatant omission of the moors. 

I just do not believe modern day masonry's  history can be written without them.


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## Bro. Vincent (May 29, 2013)

Thoth is the Greek corruption of tihuti.
Who in Egyptian lore was a representation of the divine will.


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## Bro. Vincent (May 29, 2013)

Bro. Vincent said:


> Thoth is the Greek corruption of tihuti.
> Who in Egyptian lore was a representation of the divine will.
> 
> 
> Freemason Connect Mobile



Forgot to add divine wisdom 


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## athelstane839 (May 29, 2013)

Bro. Vincent you are a true master mason. A brother who studies deeply. Masonry should be proud to have brothers like you. You are my brother. A seeker of light and truth. 


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## athelstane839 (May 29, 2013)

Love to talking with moors my only problem is their concept on race and ethnicity. I believe their is no race or ethnicity Bc this type of thinking causes division among people and we have enough division in this world we need to become one again. The Law of One. 

But besides that the moors are a great spiritual movement. 


For those who want to get there studies up check these web sites 
http://esotericonline.net/docs/index.php
Masoniclub.com
Freemason-freemasonry.com


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## Bro. Vincent (May 29, 2013)

athelstane839 said:


> Bro. Vincent you are a true master mason. A brother who studies deeply. Masonry should be proud to have brothers like you. You are my brother. A seeker of light and truth.
> 
> 
> Freemason Connect Mobile



I appreciate that brother. But I am just a student just like you and the rest of the brothers that have joined the craft. PHA and MS alike...

There are some really knowledgable brethren here...trust me I've learned lol. 

Your point about women is interesting though and I'm on the fence about it honestly, as it regards to today's masonry.  I know there have been Queen Mothers,  Devine  in their own right. And were shown equal respect and honor amongst the nations they governed... 

But atleast in Africa the boys are initiated separately into manhood away from the girls. I don't think this society of freemasonry is prepared to integrate women  at this point. And I'm not sure its wrong. My question is, is the craft consistently creating ,good, intelligent creative, respectful men? We have figure that out first.

Because if it isn't, then bringing in women makes the situation that much more complicated. 

Modern masonry is still grappling with recognition between PHA and MS GLs 
( which is ridiculous) and then you want throw women in the mix and that is an instant combustible situation.

The life blood of mankind is through a women's womb. That is the Devine "black hole of life" and should be treated that way...

But I simply remain on the fence because part of me  hears what you're saying and the other part says I really enjoy the fellowship of the brothers in the lodge and how we partake before, during and after lodge meetings. 

It's not sexist at all to me... My wife likes to watch the Real House wives of Atlanta then get on the phone with her girlfriends to discuss it. I like going to the lodge to fellowship with the brothers. Lol, not exactly the same but I hoped  you catch my drift...

I am a freethinking Master Mason my brother.


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## athelstane839 (May 29, 2013)

Lol I watch real house wives. What's wrong with that lol. 

Its understandable about women there are very few who are interested in such a craft as ours but were im trying to get with female masonry is these women will be in a lodge of there own no men overseeing there works like oes or daughters of the sphinx but be allowed to practice freemasonry in there own lodge like we men are allowed to do. 

The prince hall situation been crazy. 
Let's not get me started bc it's 2013. 
I converse with ph masons and they are dead serious about there masonry and on point. 

What Egyptian resources does people have to share. 





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## Bro. Vincent (May 29, 2013)

athelstane839 said:


> Lol I watch real house wives. What's wrong with that lol.
> 
> Its understandable about women there are very few who are interested in such a craft as ours but were im trying to get with female masonry is these women will be in a lodge of there own no men overseeing there works like oes or daughters of the sphinx but be allowed to practice freemasonry in there own lodge like we men are allowed to do.
> 
> ...



Well you can message me and we can discuss some of these things instead of posting back and forth.

I don't people want to keep seeing our post pop up back and forth. Message me brother and we can chat there...


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## athelstane839 (May 29, 2013)

Lol I watch real house wives. What's wrong with that lol. 

Its understandable about women there are very few who are interested in such a craft as ours but were im trying to get with female masonry is these women will be in a lodge of there own no men overseeing there works like oes or daughters of the sphinx but be allowed to practice freemasonry in there own lodge like we men are allowed to do. 

The prince hall situation been crazy. 
Let's not get me started bc it's 2013. 
I converse with ph masons and they are dead serious about there masonry and on point. 

What Egyptian resources does people have to share. 





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## athelstane839 (May 29, 2013)

Here's my email m.olmo@ymail.com I'll send you a lecture I did 


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## Bro. Vincent (May 29, 2013)

athelstane839 said:


> Here's my email m.olmo@ymail.com I'll send you a lecture I did
> 
> 
> Freemason Connect Mobile



My email is: umgunimind@gmail.com


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## Bill Lins (May 29, 2013)

Bro. atherstane,

To begin with, your statement that women may gain admission into Freemasonry by way of filing lawsuits is erroneous. Masonry is a _fraternity, _which by definition excludes women. It does not claim to confer any advantage in business, which is what has caused courts to force Rotary, among others, to admit women. Everything Masonry offers is available to women in the form of sororities and any such lawsuit would be adjudged to be without merit, with sanctions most likely applied against the plaintiff(s).

Your statement that New York leads & others follow is similarly without merit. We in Texas are known for going our own way and, quite frankly, couldn't care less what New York, or any other jurisdiction, does.

In addition, for New York to admit women would violate the Ancient Charges, and would certainly result in your GL being declared irregular and denied recognition by every legitimate GL elsewhere in the world. The pertinent section from Section III of the Charges  is attached:

_"The persons admitted members of a Lodge must be *good and true men*, freeborn, and of a mature and discreet age; no bondmen, *no woman*, no immoral or scandalous men, but of good report."_


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## Bro. Vincent (May 29, 2013)

I think we need to get away from this state v that state...

Because there are 48 other states thAt could chime on this and then different jurisdictions within that state could chime in...and out of control and crazy.

After my last thread I think I'm an authority on that lol.

Keep it simple and respectful. No disrespect, but Texans and New Yorkers egos can be a bit large. I'm a Midwesterner so I always find that Funny Lol.

You guys think you're state is its own country.


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## Bill Lins (May 29, 2013)

Bro. Vincent said:


> You guys think you're state is its own country.



No, we _know_ it is!  :wink:


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## Bro. Vincent (May 29, 2013)

Bill_Lins77488 said:


> No, we _know_ it is!  :wink:



LMAO!!!!!!!


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## Heart of Stone (May 30, 2013)

I believe in equal opportunities for eveyone, but I'm not feeling the female mason stuff.

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## paul782 (May 30, 2013)

A male lodge free from distraction (women) is a good thing ;-).....for those of us who are not perfect yet ;-)



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## dfreybur (May 30, 2013)

crono782 said:


> Yeah I just can't fathom that NY would play with fire like that. Only looking at it from the lodge level (non-traveling mason), having recognition pulled doesn't sound terrible. On the GL level, it's suicide if you ask me.



Athelestan's statements don't make sense.  They can't be any sort of stance by a GL even a clandestine one.  Men have their own opinions and we do teach free thought after all.  So he disagrees with the majority.

In Ohio there was the example of Halcyon Lodge.  They had a feud with the GL over real estate issues.  Probably the issue went deeper.  They left the regular Ohio GL and took their building with them.  Eventually they re-chartered with Le Driot Domain.  Suicide?  Maybe.  Crazy?  It was to me.  I wonder how they've been doing since then.


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## cool ron00 (May 30, 2013)

my name is bro ron mcnair i was in #285 deer creek  lodge in north carolina
now ilive in new york


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## El Dud3rino (May 31, 2013)

Thanks Brother Bill, that is what I miss about Texas.........
My wife asked the other day if people from TX were all independent and ready to handle any thing at the drop of a hat. I said yes, it's how we were raised in that state.
I do not believe women should join Masonry. There is the EOS, and co-Masonry. 
Please let us have one thing to our selfs. It's not about segregation, but brotherhood.


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## BryanMaloney (May 31, 2013)

Bro. Vincent said:


> Thoth is the Greek corruption of tihuti.
> Who in Egyptian lore was a representation of the divine will.
> 
> 
> Freemason Connect Mobile



Thoth is no more a Greek corruption than "God" is an English corruption of "HaShem" (etc.) Thoth is essentially the Greek VERSION of _ḏḥwty/_ḏiḥautī. What might be a corruption would be the English pronunciation of "Thoth", which doesn't actually match the ancient Greek. The ancient Greek pronunciation would be something like "t-eh-o-t-eh", with very weak "e" sounds. The Greek theta was not pronounced as an english "th", but as an aspirated t, sometimes with a strong aspiration. How well would any of us, when hearing words from an unknown language, be able to phonetically represent them using only standard English letters?

One might as well claim that the English pronunciation of "Weiss" is a corruption of the German pronunciation. I know several people in this country who consider the correct pronunciation of their name to be the English one, regardless of what might have been done in the old country.


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## Bro. Vincent (May 31, 2013)

BryanMaloney said:


> Thoth is no more a Greek corruption than "God" is an English corruption of "HaShem" (etc.) Thoth is essentially the Greek VERSION of _ḏḥwty/_ḏiḥautī. What might be a corruption would be the English pronunciation of "Thoth", which doesn't actually match the ancient Greek. The ancient Greek pronunciation would be something like "t-eh-o-t-eh", with very weak "e" sounds. The Greek theta was not pronounced as an english "th", but as an aspirated t, sometimes with a strong aspiration. How well would any of us, when hearing words from an unknown language, be able to phonetically represent them using only standard English letters?
> 
> One might as well claim that the English pronunciation of "Weiss" is a corruption of the German pronunciation. I know several people in this country who consider the correct pronunciation of their name to be the English one, regardless of what might have been done in the old country.



I could rebuttals this but I won't.  Staying topic. What would brethren do if a civil lawsuit was brought against masonic lodges to admit women what would be the lodges argument? Just curious. 


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## Bro. Vincent (May 31, 2013)

Sorry for the typos. Typing and walking is not a smart move.


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## crono782 (May 31, 2013)

Consider the recent Boy Scouts decision. Public opinion/funding is largely what swayed that whole situation. In the beginning, BSA's argument was they are a private org and thus can choose its members. This is all well and good, but BSA's member base and funding looked in jeopardy, thus the cave to pressure. Freemasonry faces no such pressure on a large scale. Private orgs are in no way forced to admit anyone and everyone. I'd wager a lawsuit would fall apart quite easily without any legal standing. 


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## Bro. Vincent (May 31, 2013)

Hmmm... But what would be the PR hit just by bringing the case to the public and having to argue the case publicly. But because a decision like that has global realmifications 


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## crono782 (May 31, 2013)

Bro. Vincent said:


> Hmmm... But what would be the PR hit just by bringing the case to the public and having to argue the case publicly. But because a decision like that has global realmifications
> 
> 
> Freemason Connect Mobile



Yeah, but still. A PR problem of "news flash, fraternities are for men" seems rather captain obvious-ish to me. I can't imagine the public eye would be too scrupulous. If anything the public eyes would be just be rolling at another frivolous lawsuit, hah. 


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## dfreybur (May 31, 2013)

Bro. Vincent said:


> What would brethren do if a civil lawsuit was brought against masonic lodges to admit women what would be the lodges argument?



I am not a lawyer.  This is a second hand report of what I heard from one lawyer in one state about "Unruh laws" that determine who is a business and who is not in that state -  Anti-discrimination laws apply to businesses profit  or non-profit not to private non-profit organizations.

The reason the Girl Scouts started admitting boys, atheists and gays is their cookie selling empire makes pushes them across the boundary to a business.  They are non-profit in general as they use the profits to fund their activities.

Compare this with the Boy Scouts who lost a lot of funding and support when they stuck with refusing girls, atheists and gays.  The Boy Scouts have to rely on private donations to avoid being declared a business.

We don't take money from any external source for anything but the Shrine hospitals (one reason the Shrine keeps considering exiting the Masonic family).  We openly discriminate by excluding atheists and women.  Membership is subject to unanimous secret ballot.

It is my completely unqualified opinion that any such lawsuit would be baseless and easily defeated.  Except for that bit about the Shrine hospitals accepting outside donations.  That might be a problem for the Shrine that might force them into separating.


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## crono782 (May 31, 2013)

But aren't the shrine and SR hospitals not for profit and any outside donation is a private charitable one?


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## Bro. Vincent (May 31, 2013)

dfreybur said:


> I am not a lawyer. This is a second hand report of what I heard from one lawyer in one state about "Unruh laws" that determine who is a business and who is not in that state - Anti-discrimination laws apply to businesses profit or non-profit not to private non-profit organizations.
> 
> The reason the Girl Scouts started admitting boys, atheists and gays is their cookie selling empire makes pushes them across the boundary to a business. They are non-profit in general as they use the profits to fund their activities.
> 
> ...



Hmmm...that is an interesting thought about the Shrine. I posed that question because we are such a sue happy society now and I could see some group claiming gender discrimination. I don't think the suit would win initially,  but I do think it would bring more negative PR to the craft. Which would bring the anti-masonic nuts out of the woodwork. And then you would have them constantly bringing up more and more lawsuits. One thing I know, some of these groups are relentless in their pursuit to invoke a lawsuit aganist an entity. And once they get started they dig their heels in for the long haul.


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## Blake Bowden (Jun 1, 2013)

Old post and I think everyone has put in their $.02.

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