# Does Grand Lodge Law Help or Hurt Individual Lodges?



## rhitland (Sep 22, 2008)

Grand Lodge Law specifically covers mostly what a Lodge or a Brother may or may not do, is this a good thing for individual Lodges or should Lodges have most of the power, & limit GL to major state wide laws?


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## JTM (Sep 22, 2008)

to be honest, i haven't really studied them past what the JW reads at the stated meeting. 

is it an "inclusive" or "exclusive" list of stuff we can/can't do?

as in, if they list all the things we can do, and say "nothing but this," well, then, I'd say that would hurt us pretty bad... but i don't get that impression.


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## Wingnut (Sep 22, 2008)

A little of both actualy.  There are things that you are supposed to go (order of business etc) and some not.  What surprised me the most was how much there is on Masonic trials!  Im fascinated by the GL Laws and try to read a little every day.  I keep it, my Monitor, lodge by-laws on my desk at home to read and easy reference.


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## TCShelton (Sep 22, 2008)

Gotta go with both as well.


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## JTM (Sep 23, 2008)

a lodge cannot sponsor a team of any sort... aka, we can't have our lodge on the back of the jerseys of a soccer team for example. 

can anyone explain this rule?


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## Wingnut (Sep 23, 2008)

I can only guess at the logic, but the rule is Art 339.  Lodge Shall Not Sponsor Other Organizations.  No lodge shall stand as sponsor for any other organization, even though such organization be composed exclusively of Master Masons or the wives, sister, sons, daughters of Master Masons.  Provided that this article shall not apply to the Chapters of the Order of DeMolay for boys, Assemblies of the Order of Ranbow Girls, and Bethels of the International Order of Job's Daughters. (revised 1989).  

isnt one of the those barred now in Texas?  Id guess to keep from a sponsored group getting in trouble and reflecting badly on Masonry.  How bad would it look if a soccer coach was later found to have been abusing the kids and then the news saying the team was linked to the Masons?  Just my first blush look at why possibly...


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## TexMass (Sep 23, 2008)

Every GL says they are there for the members and not the other way around.  Does any one feel like this is true?  We should do everything we can to get our square and compasses in the publics eye.   Whether that be to hold our own public functions or to sponsor something that would recognize us.  If I'm not mistaken, the SR Southern Jurisdiction has their own NASCAR entry with the SR emblem across the whole hood.  Also I believe the TX Masonic Home played football many years ago and was called the "Masons".  Sounds like sponsorship to me.  In MA, the GL purchases and donates police dogs that can track from the saliva left on dental imprints (perfect for CHIP material).  Traditionally, these German Shepards are named "Mason".  Rural Lodge in Quincy, MA just purchased a small, wheel chair accessible school bus for their local school district for $49,500.  The school plans to paint a S&C on the side.  Sponsorship?  What's wrong with it?  Just my humble opinion.


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## Bill Lins (Sep 23, 2008)

I'd bet it has something to do with liability. If the "sponsored" organization gets sued, so does not only the "sponsoring" Lodge, but also the Grand Lodge.


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## rhitland (Sep 24, 2008)

To me that is one of societies BIGGEST problems, we all live in fear of being sued by one another, and US laws are so twisted people who are innocent bystanders i.e. sponsors can get into trouble as well, especially with a good lawyer. It is a vicous cycle, we make Human laws to protect each other then someone who does not follow MORAL law uses them against us. What a world gotta Love it!!


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## owls84 (Sep 24, 2008)

See I believe that GL is there to help. I think they are in place to bring the state to a unified belief. I like having a larger body in control of this. I think you open up WAY more grey area when you allow individual Lodges make decisions for themselves. Look at how many GL jurisdictions differ from one to the next. Now, could you imagine having 1500 lodges make their own decisions, CHAOS!!


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## Blake Bowden (Sep 25, 2008)

I agree.             .


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## jonesvilletexas (Jan 7, 2009)

I'm with you brother Josh, when I go to another lodge I wont to know what to expect.


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## jwardl (Jan 7, 2009)

owls84 said:


> See I believe that GL is there to help. I think they are in place to bring the state to a unified belief. I like having a larger body in control of this. I think you open up WAY more grey area when you allow individual Lodges make decisions for themselves. Look at how many GL jurisdictions differ from one to the next. Now, could you imagine having 1500 lodges make their own decisions, CHAOS!!


 
Agreed.


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## Gerald.Harris (Jan 7, 2009)

I believe that Grand Lodge is definately good for all of our lodges across this great state. 
 Without it there would be no consistency in what we do. If there was no Grand Lodge , our Lodges would all soon go their own seperate ways, and in a short time NOTHING would be recognizable as Masonic except maybe the square and compasses. 
  The beauty of the Grand Lodge, is that if a brother or a lodge is dissatisfied with any law, he or they have the option of changing it during the annual communication. Some will argue that if a brother isn't a member of Grand Lodge he has no voice. I believe this to be  erroneous as each brother is a member of a Lodge, and that Lodge has a voice. If ones convictions are strong enough, he will be able to communicate his feelings and find someone who is a member of Grand Lodge who will sponsor his idea


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## Jon D. Smith (Jan 28, 2009)

I agree with Bro Harris.

I would add that how far does one think that our organization would have come from its beginnings if there had not been order? 
Would it still exist as a recognizable group?
I sincerely doubt it.
As with any organization, not everyone will be pleased with every rule. Humans are often creatures of debate. For every logical reason for thinking/believing one way, an equally strong and compelling argument might be made to the contrary.
The MWGL is our collective voice as an organization. Our respective Lodges submit their votes for or against changes. This is the way it should remain if we wish to survive as a collective.


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## fairbanks1363pm (Feb 16, 2009)

I dont think Grand Lodge hurts lodges. I do feel they have not done anything to help local lodges.


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## Smokey613 (Feb 16, 2009)

Well, the feeling around our lodge is if you do not like what Grand Lodge is doing just wait until next year because it will change.


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## Joey (Feb 16, 2009)

Smokey613 said:


> Well, the feeling around our lodge is if you do not like what Grand Lodge is doing just wait until next year because it will change.



True..... And, I have a feeling that there are going to be some reversals on several things from this past Grand Lodge.


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## Gerald.Harris (Feb 16, 2009)

Change! Did I hear CHANGE ? Seriously guys- who makes the changes at Grand Lodge? How many of your Past Masters and Three Principal Officers attended the last communication of the Grand Lodge of Texas? I for one did attend and I assure you some of the proposals I voted for, and some of them I voted against. The one constant associated with all of the changes is that :  the changes were all voted on by the Grand West who far outnumber the Grand Lodge Officers and Committie Members...
Who is the Grand West?
Who changes the Ritual ?


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## Smokey613 (Feb 16, 2009)

It may be the same way some people feel about voting in political elections... what's the point. I vote because it is my obligation as a citizen to do so and I want the right to complain about the results. 
I think the same could be said for going to Grand Lodge and participating.


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## owls84 (Feb 17, 2009)

Ok I want to update my response from earlier. I have heard all sides of this debate and I feel that it does both. The intentions of Grand Lodge was to do what I said earlier and create a system of unification but due to the problem with some Lodges or individuals pushing Grand Lodge Law to the edge, it has caused them to govern closer, basically micro-managing. I see areas that I am confused about why Grand Lodge would even waste their time controlling that (mainly confused due to ignorance). Things like why can I not have a raffle for the Lodge fundraiser, with the money going to the Lodge? Why make that mandatory that the money go to a charity. Why would Grand Lodge feel the need to step in and mandate how we raise money for the Lodges or what we must do with our money as a Lodge, yet we are not a charity? Just little things like that. I just see so many resolutions and edicts being passed eventually our law book will be much like the Constitution changed so many times no one knows why or what it was originally written for. 

When was the last time someone from Grand Lodge read the Law book to fix the contradictions? I know at the businesses I have worked at we look at our procedures annually to see if they need to be changed, removed, or kept. I mean it seems like from year to year the past Grand Master's programs get dropped and forgotten about. Take the ALL Program or the LIFE Program. These programs are so far outdated it is a shock they are still required. How hard would it truly be to update these programs annually? I guess what my complaint is why do we appoint people to these committees but do not require them to do any real merit work. If you are going to be on an education committee give me an education program. If you are going to be on the internet committee then give me a website that will knock people’s shoes off. The sad thing is the more I see the more I wonder why some, not all, the committee members are appointed or even serving. Is it just for personal recognition? Do these members just want a name badge and be announced at each meeting? I am not saying EVERYONE on a committee is like that but I have seen some that just get down right upset if you don’t mention their name and title at a meeting yet you never see production from them. I would like to see accountability with these committees. Give reports monthly and have them sent out with the Secretaries Monthly Maintenance Report. Let the Lodges see what you are working on and how much progression you are making. Let’s hold people accountable and in turn make Lodges and Masonry stronger. Due to these reasons I am changing my answer to this to both, Grand Lodge helps and hurts individual Lodges.

Sorry for the rant but I just believe if you put good resources in then you will get a better product out and I see our Grand Lodge spinning their wheels on a lot of issues. I did not mean to step on anyone’s toes on this either but I feel like someone needs to say it and put it out there.


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## TCShelton (Feb 17, 2009)

owls84 said:


> Letâ€™s hold people accountable and in turn make Lodges and Masonry stronger.



Yeah, but accountability is a tricky thing.  The quickest way to run people off is by holding them accountable.  What I hate is when we keep looking to Grand Lodge for solutions to problems we don't even want to work out ourselves.  GL isn't here to hold our hand.  If we want them to have less control, we need to stop running to them for everything.  Which of these committees do you want to see do more?  

The real issue is that we like to complain about our problems more than we like to look for solutions.  We want Big Brother to fix everything, but at the same time, stay out of our hair.  Doesn't work that way.


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## owls84 (Feb 18, 2009)

Well put Brother Tom. I could see myself doing that as well, I guess when you think of it, Grand Lodge is just like any public election, 100% of the people complain but only 15% vote. I guess I just never thought of it as being the indiviual Lodges responsibility to keep checks and balances on the Grand Lodge. Regardless it starts with the individual Lodges.


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## TCShelton (Feb 18, 2009)

That is only part of it.  It is up to individual lodges and Masons not to NEED GL to do everything and be as involved with all we do.  It is like our federal government.  Our individual lack of initiative is what makes them interfere and get involved.  When lodges start handling their own business, this thread will not have a purpose.


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## Bill Lins (Feb 18, 2009)

Bro. Josh,

The reason for the restrictions concerning raffles is because those restrictions are mandated by Texas state law, and we MUST follow the civil law.


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## owls84 (Feb 19, 2009)

Thank you Brother Bill, I did not know that. I have been looking for that answer for a long time now. 

I have a question, If I were to raffel off a shotgun and any profits made from the raffle could I give them to the Lodge as a donation? Then I would be the one raffeling and not the Lodge. The only reason I bring this up is I see a raffle as a way to make money just by walking around and asking if someone wants to buy a ticket, basically the fundraiser goes the the person.


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## RJS (Feb 19, 2009)

That's a good question.


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## caeservi (Feb 19, 2009)

owls84 said:


> Thank you Brother Bill, I did not know that. I have been looking for that answer for a long time now.
> 
> I have a question, If I were to raffel off a shotgun and any profits made from the raffle could I give them to the Lodge as a donation? Then I would be the one raffeling and not the Lodge. The only reason I bring this up is I see a raffle as a way to make money just by walking around and asking if someone wants to buy a ticket, basically the fundraiser goes the the person.



The problem is a taxation issue: if you, as an individual, raffle the gun, the proceeds would be considered earned income and should be reported (whether the IRS would ever actually ever find out about the income is an entirely different matter ).  Even if you reported the income and the subsequent donation, you would not be able to use it as an deduction.  If you don't mind the tax hit you would take, then there is nothing wrong with it, and it would be a very generous gift to the lodge on your part.


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## Wingnut (Feb 19, 2009)

owls84 said:


> Thank you Brother Bill, I did not know that. I have been looking for that answer for a long time now.
> 
> I have a question, If I were to raffel off a shotgun and any profits made from the raffle could I give them to the Lodge as a donation? Then I would be the one raffeling and not the Lodge. The only reason I bring this up is I see a raffle as a way to make money just by walking around and asking if someone wants to buy a ticket, basically the fundraiser goes the the person.



I had a thread on that earlier asking the question about raffle restrictions...

doing  a raffle on your own would most likely get you sideways with the state of Texas.  Raffles and lotterys are very strictly controlled in Texas due to all the scams.


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## TCShelton (Feb 19, 2009)

owls84 said:


> I have a question, If I were to raffel off a shotgun and any profits made from the raffle could I give them to the Lodge as a donation?



I know of one unamed lodge that does that.


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## Bill Lins (Feb 19, 2009)

owls84 said:


> I have a question, If I were to raffel off a shotgun and any profits made from the raffle could I give them to the Lodge as a donation? Then I would be the one raffeling and not the Lodge. The only reason I bring this up is I see a raffle as a way to make money just by walking around and asking if someone wants to buy a ticket, basically the fundraiser goes the the person.



IIRC, only non-profit organizations may legally conduct raffles. It's a great idea, but I don't believe it'll fly. 

Some time back, the Grand Secretary sent out a set of the rules regarding raffles to the Lodges. You might check with your Lodge Secretary & look them over- you might come up with something that might work for your Lodge.


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## 4thgenPM (Mar 6, 2009)

Brethren, I always find this topic interesting as it usually involves some sense of an "us vs. them" mentality between Grand Lodge and the Consituent Lodges.  It is important to remember that our Constituent Lodges and the Grand Lodge are one and the same.  If it weren't for the Constituent Lodges fulfilling their charges to make Master Masons and electing officers, there would be no members of Grand Lodge.  

Our Grand Lodge can only be as helpful as we, its Members and Representatives, allow it to be.  At the same time, we cannot expect that all of the issues and concerns of every local Lodge can be remedied by Grand Lodge law.  This is why Lodges must have the ability to govern themselves and make their own decisions on a daily basis based on their own circumstances, but with guidance from their Brethren in the form of the Grand Lodge Laws.  

If we did require Grand Lodge to settle every issue or problem that a Lodge had, we would need to meet far more than the day and a half we have allows...in fact, it would need to become a paying job for all of the Grand Lodge members (the Past Masters of Texas Lodges) to meet to fulfill that requirement.  

Brethren, if we say that "Grand Lodge isn't here for us" we're essentially saying that we're not here for ourselves...I'm not prepared to say that...I don't agree with everything that we've passed in Grand Lodge, but I've had my opportunity to debate it and cast my vote, which is the same opportunity I've had in my local Lodges...and I don't agree with everything that's passed their either!

Christian D. Moore, PM


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## Ruffian1 (Apr 16, 2009)

*Grand Lodge - Helpful? Hurtful?*

The simple answer is "Both".  The GL of Washington is a megalith of conflicting, unworkable and inglored rules.  It is every Mason's whipping boy.  It reeks of pomp and circumstances - Yet......

Who is the Grand Lodge?  It is us!  We have met the enemy and it is us.  Over time we have created this ediface and now have to live with it.  The GL officers do the best they can with a set of codes that beggers those of the IRS. Where did this monstrosity come from?  Us!  Over the years we have created it and don't have either the will or the desire to throw the whole thing out and start over.

Our Grand Master this year is trying.  A resolution to come before our Grand Lodge Communication tosses the whole code section on Masonic trials, that has become unworkable and divisive, and is replacing it with a vastly improved rendition.  It will be interesting to see if the voting delegates have the wisdom to adopt it.

Our GL Secretary and staff do a remarkable job given the limitations of funds and the artificial administrative burden thrust upon them.  They have finally developed a computerized database of members - a great help to Secretaries.

So Brothers.... our Grand Lodge, like yours, is archaic, bureaucratic and demanding.  It is so because we have burdened it with an unworkable set of rules that we are unwilling to change.  Within this framework some good things are happening.


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