# European co-Mason



## Roy_ (Aug 14, 2014)

Goodday all. I have been searching the web for an international and active forum and stumbled upon this one. Quite America oriented with a few European members it seems. Also I see the usual (and understandable) views on co-Masonry, but also misunderstandings.

That is to say, if you allow a co- and therefor 'irregular'/'clandestine'/whatever Mason to be member of this board. (Yes I am fully aware of that discussion.)

So, in short. I am a co-Mason since spring 2014. I live in the Netherlands. Before joining I have been studying a lot of different things, Freemasonry in this was one of the subjects. In another environment I have had close contact with a Freemason and combined I am relatively well informed, so perhaps I can help a bit with information about co-Masonry and Masonry in Europe in general.

Yours,

Roy


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## crono782 (Aug 14, 2014)

For an EA, you are quite informed!


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## Roy_ (Aug 14, 2014)

Flying start I guess. For over 20 years I've been studying a lot of different topics and for a couple of years I have had a spiritual teacher who was a Freemason (but he will not think me a brother now). It was time to put theory to practise and in the end I ended up at a co-Masonic lodge!


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## pointwithinacircle2 (Aug 14, 2014)

I have often puzzled over the prohibition of women in the UGLE Lodge system.  I do not know if it is merely tradition or if there are other reasons.  Perhaps it relates to the Esoteric work, but that is rarely, if ever, taught at any of the Lodges that I have attended.


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## Roy_ (Aug 14, 2014)

There is a thread about co-Masonry where I replied too. Your question seems more fitting there.


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## Warrior1256 (Aug 31, 2014)

I know that I am running a risk of being called sexist for saying this but one of the many things that drew me to Masonry is the "men only" rule. Women have their sorority organizations, what's wrong with men having a fraternal organization.


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## Roy_ (Sep 1, 2014)

Nothing, but it wasn't the best option in my situation. Besides, what's wrong with a mixed organisation?


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## Levelhead (Sep 1, 2014)

Roy_ said:


> Besides, what's wrong with a mixed organisation?


Man just stop. You are going to make a argument. Tired of it already. YOU already know how most people think about your situation. Just be it, and so be it.


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## Roy_ (Sep 1, 2014)

Sorry man, I don't provoke, I just answer provocations. Besides, all you regulars can point us irregulars to our 'status' on each and every possible occasions, but I can't reply?

No don't answer this question since you get tired of it and I don't feel like yes/no discussions anyway. Just put me on your ignore list. This is probably better for your heart.


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## Levelhead (Sep 1, 2014)

You can answer all you want. Just don't ask what the regulars think about co..  because you know the answer and know it has potential for an argument. Especially when I'm guessing 99 percent or more of the members here on this forum are regular. Thats it man.


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## Glen Cook (Sep 1, 2014)

Roy_ said:


> Nothing, but it wasn't the best option in my situation. Besides, what's wrong with a mixed organisation?


I didn't see a statement that there was anything "wrong" with co-ed organizations.  Rather, that the poster preferred a fraternal.  I am a member of a coed fraternal.  I too prefer the male only.  Not a question of right or wrong, just preference.  If you do an internet search you can see the benefits put forth for fraternal and sororal groups and there is no need to rehash them here.


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## Roy_ (Sep 1, 2014)

Nor did I, nor did I intend to raise the suggestion that I did! I just quoted the replier who answered this to me in the first place. Do you people *try *to be offended? Is it because I do not fit into your picture that everything I say is supposedly meant to attack regular Freemasonry? I chose another path. I highly respect yours, but it wasn't for me. There is nothing more underlying me being present here. I am not trying to undermine regular Freemasonry or it's validity to be a male-only organisation, just read back some of my posts. I am member of another group, is that such a big deal? Would have have been a member of AMORC, would every word I write have been taken to be offensive? Let's agree that you regulars are real Freemasons and I am bogus and we can all just be friends.


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## Glen Cook (Sep 1, 2014)

Roy_ said:


> Nor did I, nor did I intend to raise the suggestion that I did! I just quoted the replier who answered this to me in the first place. Do you people *try *to be offended? ...
> ..rant deleted.



I have no idea what brought that on.  I'm not sure how one reads offense into my comments. 

It would appear this has degenerated into a discussion of what was/was not said.  Those are seldom useful. I will let readers review the material and make their own decisions.


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## Levelhead (Sep 1, 2014)

Roy_ said:


> Nor did I, nor did I intend to raise the suggestion that I did! I just quoted the replier who answered this to me in the first place. Do you people *try *to be offended? Is it because I do not fit into your picture that everything I say is supposedly meant to attack regular Freemasonry? I chose another path. I highly respect yours, but it wasn't for me. There is nothing more underlying me being present here. I am not trying to undermine regular Freemasonry or it's validity to be a male-only organisation, just read back some of my posts. I am member of another group, is that such a big deal? Would have have been a member of AMORC, would every word I write have been taken to be offensive? Let's agree that you regulars are real Freemasons and I am bogus and we can all just be friends.






I see it like (and not to be offensive to the religion AT ALL)

But your like the jehova's witness who knocks on my door, its like "ok i get it your a jehova's witness and you seem like a good person and pray away", just stop knocking on my door telling me about it cause apparently you know im not or id be out knocking on doors also! or i guess trying to convince me thats the route thats right. 

And i will say AGAIN no disrespect to that religion thats what they actually do.


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## Warrior1256 (Sep 1, 2014)

Glen Cook said:


> I didn't see a statement that there was anything "wrong" with co-ed organizations.  Rather, that the poster preferred a fraternal.  I am a member of a coed fraternal.  I too prefer the male only.  Not a question of right or wrong, just preference.  If you do an internet search you can see the benefits put forth for fraternal and sororal groups and there is no need to rehash them here.


That's it exactly, I prefer a fraternal organization. If others prefer coed I don't have a problem with that. Just don't try to insinuate to me that a fraternity is wrong or shouldn't be.


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## Mike Martin (Sep 1, 2014)

Levelhead said:


> I see it like (and not to be offensive to the religion AT ALL)
> 
> But your like the jahovas witness who knocks on my door, its like "ok i get it your a jahovas witness and you seem like a good person and pray away", just stop knocking on my door telling me about it cause apparently you know im not or id be out knocking on doors also! or i guess trying to convince me thats the route thats right.
> 
> And i will say AGAIN no disrespect to that religion thats what they actually do.


Levelhead, the word you are looking for is "proselytise" , he is proselytising like Jehovah's Witness.


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## Levelhead (Sep 1, 2014)

Yes! Correct. Thank you brother.


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## dfreybur (Sep 1, 2014)

Roy_ said:


> Nothing, but it wasn't the best option in my situation. Besides, what's wrong with a mixed organisation?



There doesn't have to be anything wrong.  It doesn't have to be about that.  It's against rules that we knowingly agree to - Right and wrong don't enter into that situation.  For or against the rules is not about right and wrong.  There is a clear cut favorite in popularity as world wide male only  jurisdictions have over a hundred members per members of female only or mixed gender jurisdictions put together - Right or wrong don't enter into that situation either.  No matter the claims of direct democracy folks popularity is not about right or wrong either.

Single gender organizations have a set of advantages.  Mixed gender organizations have a different set of advantages.  Which set is valued more is a personal matter not about right and wrong.


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## Roy_ (Sep 2, 2014)

Why do you (plural) continue to quote my "what's wrong" sentence out of context? I rephrased Warrior's question: "what's wrong with men having a fraternal organization?" Warrior can ask me the question (which I am sure there was no pun intended) but I cannot jokingly return it?

People please stop putting word in my mouth and intentions in what I write. I DO NOT want anyone to step over to co-Masonry, I DO NOT have problems with male-only Freemasonry. I can't get rid of the idea that the fact that I know about regular and irregular and still chose to be irregular somehow gets on your nerves. Just because I chose another type of organisation does IN NO WAY make value judgement. Mixed Freemasonry has been here for about 120 years and in some countries it is bigger than regular Freemasonry. That's just a fact, again no value judgement. I'm just saying: we are here. Slightly different but not much. I joined this forum because it does not explicitly exclude non-regular Freemasons. I asked a couple of times and some members think I am welcome.

I mean no offence, just stop finding it in everything I write. I am just who I am and I have made the choices that I made. Excuse me for being different...................


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## Bro. Stewart P.M. (Sep 6, 2014)

Welcome to the online community here.


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## Roy_ (May 18, 2015)

If all goes as planned, I'll be FC by the time I get back to bed.


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## dfreybur (May 18, 2015)

Being irregular I'll use a slightly different term than my usual -

Welcome again to the family twice adopted step-brother.

Here our worldly differences keep us from encountering each other in a lodge made with hands.  We walk by choice on different sides of the same river.

There will come a day when we have both reached the source of that river.  Then I believe our differences will be mortal memories and I take it on faith that we will be able to encounter each other in a lodge not made with hands.  So may it be for all of us.


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## Roy_ (May 19, 2015)

Thank you Doug. 
It was a less exiting Rite as that of the initiation, but besides some expected elements, it also had a few surprises. It contains some nice symbolism to overthink. I guess I'll have about a year for that!


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## Roy_ (May 19, 2015)

The Rite says as much. The same for EA of course. That that work is to be repeated is much intwined in the FC Rite (in particular in the steps).
I just started reading the Rite. Let me see what I remember and what not.


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