# Do you consider others from unchartered lodges your brother?



## Cookboy4200

I don't but would like feedback 


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## Bro. Stewart P.M.

There is a very small part of me that wants to say Yes. However...

If we acknowledge every so-in-so from anywhere USA without a standardized recognition system enforced... who's to say, at that point that any self professed individual choosing to call himself a Mason would then become deserving, worthy Brother!?! In my opinion, if we choose to support this rouge fraternal existence by way of recognition, if even through terminology... we are supporting the negative behavior that will inevitably be harmful to our legitimate fraternity.


Just because a Cherry calls itself a Orange, does not make it an Orange.


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## Brother JC

In my Obligation, I swore not to hold Masonic converse with a clandestinely-made Mason, so no, I can not _in good conscience _call him Brother. This does not, however, stop me from discussing Freemasonry in general terms, or attempting to lead him to a healing, and knocking on the "approved" door.


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## dfreybur

I don't need lodge to teach me that all men are brothers, but I do learn that there.  I don't need church to teach me that all of humanity are one family, but I do learn it there.  I don't need science to teach me that all of humanity is kin, but I do learn it there.  That said the capitalization to Brother is a matter of regularity and regularity comes in a range.  If a brother is a member of a clandestine lodge and he came their without knowing I pray that he will have the heart to step to the door of a recognized lodge to be healed.  So my answer is a mixture of yes and no depending.


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## Cookboy4200

Bro. Stewart said:


> There is a very small part of me that wants to say Yes. However...
> 
> If we acknowledge every so-in-so from anywhere USA without a standardized recognition system enforced... who's to say, at that point that any self professed individual choosing to call himself a Mason would then become deserving, worthy Brother!?! In my opinion, if we choose to support this rouge fraternal existence by way of recognition, if even through terminology... we are supporting the negative behavior that will inevitably be harmful to our legitimate fraternity.
> 
> 
> Just because a Cherry calls itself a Orange, does not make it an Orange.



Could not have explained it better


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## Brother_Steve

These lodges are most likely made up of men who quit the fraternity because they were at odds with the landmarks or were expelled for some reason or another. These men now form lodges and catch unsuspecting people with genuine intentions. The lodge however is at odds with our regular/recognized grand lodges. If you read the wording on their website they seem to try to say they do more than us or the wording is put in such a way as to put us down.

While I would be friendly with someone I would not talk masonically with them knowing them to be clandestine


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## AAJ

Maybe instead of 'Brother', members from clandestine or unrecognized lodges can be 'Cousin'. They are kindred spirits, with presumably similar philosophical ancestry, even if you don't have the same history with them as with your immediate family(recognized lodges).


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## Brother JC

Heheh, I like that. Perhaps step-brother?


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## dfreybur

Brother_Steve said:


> These lodges are most likely made up of men who quit the fraternity because they were at odds with the landmarks or were expelled for some reason or another. These men now form lodges and catch unsuspecting people with genuine intentions.



I suspect many or most clandestine lodges re formed by expelled former Brothers.  I do not think that's true of the majority of their members.  I suspect the vast majority of their members are good men and true who came to their door not knowing the distinction between regular and clandestine.


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## bgeorge

They are not brothers sad to say. The leadership of those clandestine lodges are just wrong. A mason should be living in truth and for them to deceive millions of good men is just wrong. If i had the power i would shut them down.

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## JTM

a brother in need is a brother indeed.


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## jwhoff

Everything is relative.  So ... half-brother may not be a bad start.  :001_rolleyes:


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## willgreen23

A brother is a brother regardless of his race or affiliation. If I see a brother in distress that is in good standing and show of good will,  I will come to his aid. 

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## bgeorge

Yes a brother is a brother if in distress. If a brother give the grand hailing sign i am not goin to ask if he is four letter, pha , international or what ever I will help him, but my obligation states I shall not be entering non prince hall made masons. I cant invite them to my lodge they are not chartered masons. Their leaders went against the first thing we are taught in masonry which is Truth. Caldestine lodges are not masons. They cant travel free so whats the  point

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## Bro. Stewart P.M.

I have watched this thread over time, and my mind remains unchanged. YES, a Brother is a Brother... Er, A legitimate Mainstream or legitimate Prince Hall Affiliated Brother is a Brother!

The subject of RACE has nothing to do with the question at hand. Period.

What we are dealing with... Is this. Joe Smith from Nowhere, USA gets up one morning and decides that he wants to be a Freemason. So, he gets one the internet, reads the degrees, practices the modes of recognition, and ultimately declares himself a Mason without ever stepping foot in a Lodge nor meeting with anyone else. It's happening folks, each and every day. People are opening their own Lodges, initiating members, raising Brothers whilst lying directly to their faces.

To belong to a "Masonic Lodge" that can not trace it's origins back to Europe through the recognized, honored, and respected methods, is no different IMO than "Joe Smith" already mentioned.

I mean really!?! If this is where our Fraternity is today, then why do we bother tiling the door??

If I wake up one morning with a desire to be a Fireman, go out buy all the stuff from clothing to trucks, and declare myself a "fire fighter" does that legitimately make me a real Fireman?? Would you trust me the same as the legitimate professionals? Many of us when in college belonged to fraternities... What happens to the outsider who who's never been a pledge walks around in public wearing your colors & letters?? It's the same thing guys!


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## widows son

^^^truth.


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## ChaplinMike277

All are entitled to their own opinion, but please have your facts anyone can be a book mason. IIS

So true.

The Key Word "TRUTH" without  Truth the Brotherhood name will be polluted by Lies...

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## Cookboy4200

If I put on a Lakers jersey, does that make me a Laker?


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## mando_dando

I cannot consider a clandestine mason a brother. 

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## mando_dando

Clandestine lodges are recognized by my grand lodges. The problem I have is with these clandestinodges charging absurd fees to make a profit and giving these csndidates 3 degrees in one night. Anything that is not standard ritual does note go well with me. I am PHA in the state of Florida.  I dont have to worry about being clandestine

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## Michael Hatley

Fact is I call every man brother, until he gives me a reason not to. Been doin that since way before I heard about Freemasonry and I'll do it way after I've rode off into the sunset.  Its just how I do.  And I'll help any man in distress unless he is committing a crime or something - thats just humanity, man.  Truth is I don't need any grand hailing signs to help people in need, ya know?

Brother, with a capital B, that means the letter of the law.  And to me thats a very small slice of life when taken on the whole.  Tiled meetings, ritual, etc.  But thats about it.

It is a very small fraction of life we're talkin about.  Or rather, not talkin about.  Just is what it is, gotta get right between Grand Lodges and so on and so forth to bring that onto the table.


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## deford

*Re: Do you consider others from unchartered lodges*

Its a respect level for me. Dont grip me if you cant get past the first letter let alone even knowing the actual password. I have dealt with this on campus a lot. 


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## Bro glenn mcdaniel

*Re: Do you consider others from unchartered lodges*

If they r unchartered then they r not yo bro ijs

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## LittleHunter

*Re: Do you consider others from unchartered lodges*

It depends. In my jurisdiction some Masons consider Prince Hall clandestine. Personally I consider them brothers... "Step-brothers"... "Half brothers" ... "Brothers disowned by our dysfunctional father" but Brothers nonetheless.

I would not hold Masonic communication  with anyone considered clandestine by my GL but that doesn't mean I can't respect them if they lead a Masonic life and honoring our shared heritage and culture.


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## bupton52

*Re: Do you consider others from unchartered lodges*



LittleHunter said:


> It depends. In my jurisdiction some Masons consider Prince Hall clandestine. Personally I consider them brothers... "Step-brothers"... "Half brothers" ... "Brothers disowned by our dysfunctional father" but Brothers nonetheless.
> 
> I would not hold Masonic communication  with anyone considered clandestine by my GL but that doesn't mean I can't respect them if they lead a Masonic life and honoring our shared heritage and culture.
> 
> 
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What state are you in?


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## LittleHunter

*Re: Do you consider others from unchartered lodges*



bupton52 said:


> What state are you in?



Florida.


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## ChaplinMike277

*Re: Do you consider others from unchartered lodges*

Arkansas

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## Chillimaru

*Re: Do you consider others from unchartered lodges*

I have no problem with people of any race creed or color trying to become a better person and being a very good masonic role model, I can't hold Masonic Communication with a clandestine mason as my obligation says, I didn't even know anything about Prince Hall until I found this site so I'm still learning about all of this!!!!!


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## ChaplinMike277

*Re: Do you consider others from unchartered lodges*

Well we are recognized by the GLOE so it makes us legit

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## mando_dando

*Re: Do you consider others from unchartered lodges*

Things are changing in Florida. The Mainstream Shriners just accepted mutual recognition with PHA Shriners. I know this because I just became a Noble. Also, the reason mainstream doesn't recognize PHA is because of Racism. The original 13 confederate states are the ones that have issues with PHA masonry.

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## bupton52

*Re: Do you consider others from unchartered lodges*



ChaplinMike277 said:


> Well we are recognized by the GLOE so it makes us legit
> 
> Sent from my SPH-L710 using Freemasonry mobile app




The GLoE doesn't exist anymore. Perhaps you meant the UGLE. Are you a member of the GLoAR or the MWPHGLoAR?

Also, being recognized doesn't make one legitimate. I just want to put this out there for clarification. Any jurisdiction can recognize whomever they want. That wouldn't make a clandestine body legitimate though.


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## MarkR

*Re: Do you consider others from unchartered lodges*



bupton52 said:


> The GLoE doesn't exist anymore. Perhaps you meant the UGLE. Are you a member of the GLoAR or the MWPHGLoAR?
> 
> Also, being recognized doesn't make one legitimate. I just want to put this out there for clarification. Any jurisdiction can recognize whomever they want. That wouldn't make a clandestine body legitimate though.


Exactly right.  And the United Grand Lodge of England, while a pretty good barometer, is not the final authority on recognition of Grand Lodges.  Each Grand Lodge is completely autonomous, and makes its own decisions on recognition.


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## kendrick

*Re: Do you consider others from unchartered lodges*

Whence came you


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## dfreybur

*Re: Do you consider others from unchartered lodges*



LittleHunter said:


> It depends. In my jurisdiction some Masons consider Prince Hall clandestine. Personally I consider them brothers... "Step-brothers"... "Half brothers" ... "Brothers disowned by our dysfunctional father" but Brothers nonetheless.
> 
> I would not hold Masonic communication  with anyone considered clandestine by my GL but that doesn't mean I can't respect them if they lead a Masonic life and honoring our shared heritage and culture.



If I read your posting history correctly you're in Florida.  Florida does not recognize PHA yet (The best time to put it up for vote is the next GL session!).  Recognition and regularity are two different topics.  That Florida does not recognize PHA does not mean that Florida considers PHA irregular.  Not that you're currently allowed to visit anyways.


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## bupton52

*Re: Do you consider others from unchartered lodges*



kendrick said:


> Whence came you
> 
> 
> My Freemasonry HD Pro



?


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## Dis1Recording

*Re: Do you consider others from unchartered lodges*

Before u can become a Master Mason. U hafta understand who you can acknowledge as a Brother. And who you can't. 


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## BroBook

*Re: Do you consider others from unchartered lodges*



mando_dando said:


> Things are changing in Florida. The Mainstream Shriners just accepted mutual recognition with PHA Shriners. I know this because I just became a Noble. Also, the reason mainstream doesn't recognize PHA is because of Racism. The original 13 confederate states are the ones that have issues with PHA masonry.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Freemason Connect HD mobile app



Question are you saying that 3'a & 4's in fl (ph&pa) are recognizing each other?


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## mando_dando

*Re: Do you consider others from unchartered lodges*

No I'm not saying that.


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## bupton52

*Re: Do you consider others from unchartered lodges*



BroBook said:


> Question are you saying that 3'a & 4's in fl (ph&pa) are recognizing each other?
> 
> 
> My Freemasonry HD


 3's and 4's is such an inaccurate term. Also, what is PH&PA?


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## bupton52

*Re: Do you consider others from unchartered lodges*



mando_dando said:


> Things are changing in Florida. The Mainstream Shriners just accepted mutual recognition with PHA Shriners. I know this because I just became a Noble. Also, the reason mainstream doesn't recognize PHA is because of Racism. The original 13 confederate states are the ones that have issues with PHA masonry.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Freemason Connect HD mobile app




I haven't heard anything about any recognition agreements in Florida. The GLs don't even recognize each other yet. The way that the Shrine is set up, wouldn't that require the approval of the national body?


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## Blake Bowden

*Re: Do you consider others from unchartered lodges*



Cookboy4200 said:


> I don't but would like feedback
> 
> 
> Freemason Connect HD



Nope. They aren't a Brother Mason but that doesn't mean I wouldn't come to their relief.


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## Bro_Vick

*Re: Do you consider others from unchartered lodges*



AAJ said:


> Maybe instead of 'Brother', members from clandestine or unrecognized lodges can be 'Cousin'. They are kindred spirits, with presumably similar philosophical ancestry, even if you don't have the same history with them as with your immediate family(recognized lodges).



We can't use cousins, we use that for the Order of Knight Masons. 

S&F,
-Bro Vick


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## NativeSteel

*Re: Do you consider others from unchartered lodges*

Well, I think some of these guys have been duped into thinking they are truly Brother masons. I mean we are a society with secrets and dont truly know until we are one. I think some of them have taken the right step to brotherhood just in the wrong direction. We as true masons must follow our masonic obligations and hope they drop the fake and find a regular and well governed lodge and make petition to the true Brotherhood!

" SEMPER ANTICUS "


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## BroBook

*Re: Do you consider others from unchartered lodges*



Cookboy4200 said:


> I don't but would like feedback
> 
> 
> Freemason Connect HD



For clarification you mean those chartered by "unrecognized " bodies also???


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