# The Ancient Accepted Scottish Rite used in the U.S. in the Symbolic Degrees



## guajiro1 (Nov 13, 2010)

There  are approximately twenty-nine Lodges in the United States using the  "Scottish Rite" version of the ritual of the three symbolic degrees, these are concentrated in New York, New Orleans, California. Awareness  of the location of "Scottish Rite Blue Lodges" can help a brother  interested arrange their travel plans to include a visit to one of the  Masonic cities mentioned above.

In the lodges that use the Ancient Accepted Scottish Rite, They are commonly known as "Scottish Rite Lodges" and are:

1. Lodge Le Progress de l'Oceania No. 371, Honolulu
2. Etoile Polaire Lodge No. 1. New Orleans
3. Perseverance Lodge No. 4 New Orleans
4. Cervantes Lodge No. 5 New Orleans
5. Germania Lodge No. 46 New Orleans
6. Kosmos Lodge No. 171. New Orleans
7. Union Lodge No. 172 New Orleans
8. Dante Lodge No. 174 New Orleans
9. Galileo Mazzini Lodge No. 368 New Orleans
10. Albert Pike Lodge No. 376. New Orleans
11. Paul M. Lodge Schneidauer No. 391 New Orleans
12. Alba Lodge No. 891, New York City
13. Archimede Lodge No. 935, New York City
14. Cavour Lodge No. 872, New York City
15. Dante Lodge No. 919, New York City
16. Garibaldi Lodge No. 542, New York City
17. Italy Lodge No. 786, New York City
18. La Clemente Amitie Lodge No. 410, New York City
19. Fraternity Lodge No. 387, New York City
20. The SinceritÃ  Lodge No. 373, New York City
21. The Universal Lodge No. 751, New York City
22. L'Union Francaise Lodge No. 17, New York City
23. Leonardo Lodge No. 937, New York City
24. Mazzini Lodge No. 824, New York City
25. Roma Lodge No. 854, New York City
26. The Parfaite Union Lodge No. 17, San Francisco
27. Italian Speranza Lodge No. 219, San Francisco
28. Vallee de France Lodge No. 329, Los Angeles
29. Aurora Lodge No. 30, Milwaukee

Suffice to say that the continued use of these different rituals in Louisiana, New York, California, etc. is unique, and Brother Masons from other jurisdictions that have witnessed the ceremonies of different grades,  had nothing but praise for their beauty, eloquence and depth of meaning.

Emilio R. Ruiz 32Âº


----------



## AhimanBeard (Nov 20, 2010)

woah, wait. Are these regular/recognized lodges affiliated with a good standing Grand Lodge? If so, I would love to see the degrees done the old fashioned way rather than the theatrical.
(speaking of which, last night I got my Rose Croix and Prince of Jerusalem)


----------



## Bill Lins (Nov 20, 2010)

I hear that we may have SR Blue Lodges here in Texas in the near future.


----------



## jwhoff (Nov 20, 2010)

I'd like to have an answer to that one myself.  For instance, if the Grand Lodge of Louisiana recognizes the New Orleans lodges, aren't we connected?


----------



## Bro. Stewart P.M. (Nov 21, 2010)

AhimanBeard said:


> woah, wait. Are these regular/recognized lodges affiliated with a good standing Grand Lodge? If so, I would love to see the degrees done the old fashioned way rather than the theatrical.
> (speaking of which, last night I got my Rose Croix and Prince of Jerusalem)


 
Yes, theses "Red Lodge" degrees are supported by the Grand Lodge of Louisiana, a LARGE amount of GL officers show up to these ceremonies to support them. Yes, the GLoTX received it's charter from the GLoLA and is recognized. Yes, Texas Brothers are encouraged to attend these degrees.

Yes, I have personally seen some of these degrees and it was my great pleasure to have been examined by sitting GL officers prior to the degrees.

The only "catch" to viewing any of these degrees is that you must be a MM in good standing (dues card, drivers license) and expect to be examined beforehand. GLoLA requires all work to be preformed in the Masters Degree, then the lessor opened.


----------



## AhimanBeard (Nov 21, 2010)

well it's highly unlikely that I'll be down south anytime soon to witness these degrees. It is, however, fascinating to know that some lodges still work the A.A.S.R. in its initial ritualized fashion (Rather than the theatrical one). 

Furthermore, as a ritualist at heart, I would love to witness the Rose Croix, which was beautiful in so many ways, done in its initial form. 

Having been examined for the first time the other week, I feel more confident in traveling to meet with brethren and being examined (understandably and respectfully) .


----------



## Dave in Waco (Nov 22, 2010)

Bill_Lins77488 said:


> I hear that we may have SR Blue Lodges here in Texas in the near future.



I heard that rumor too.


----------



## jwhoff (Nov 26, 2010)

Anyone.  Did this rumor spur the Grand Lodge of Texas communication of a month or so ago regarding degree work?

I am quite aware of the work in the "Red Lodge" degrees and find them to be very stimulating, rich with symbolism and meaning.  But I understand the York Rite heritage of the degrees here in Texas.

That leads to another question.  Does anyone have information as to how the grand lodges involved reconciled the differences?


----------



## dbindel (Nov 26, 2010)

jwhoff said:


> Does anyone have information as to how the grand lodges involved reconciled the differences?


 
I am not sure of the internal Grand Lodge mechanisms that were involved in Louisiana, but essentially, the lodges practicing the Scottish Rite were grandfathered in, and all newly chartered lodges work the Preston-Webb symbolic degrees.

Each lodge in New Orleans originally had its own version of the Scottish Rite degrees since they came from different countries and spoke different languages (French, Italian, Spanish, and English). As I understand it, they have all since standardized the Scottish Rite ritual used in New Orleans, and it is in English form. However, each of them have retained some of their own deviations and traditions they follow that give special character to each degree.

Interestingly, after visiting some of the Scottish Rite lodges in New Orleans last year, it became apparent that they are not purely Scottish Rite, but now actually work an amalgamation containing elements from both the Scottish and the York Rites.


----------



## Bill Lins (Nov 26, 2010)

jwhoff said:


> Did this rumor spur the Grand Lodge of Texas communication of a month or so ago regarding degree work?



There _may_ have been some connection.



jwhoff said:


> That leads to another question.  Does anyone have information as to how the grand lodges involved reconciled the differences?


 
Last I heard, said differences have _not_ been reconciled.


----------



## Frater Cliff Porter (Dec 1, 2010)

> I hear that we may have SR Blue Lodges here in Texas in the near future.



I had heard the incoming Grand Master wanted to yank recognition of the Scottish Rite all together....


----------



## Bill Lins (Dec 1, 2010)

Not just him & that's the reason we may be getting "red" Lodges. Didn't I say something a while back about shooting ourselves in the feet?


----------



## Frater Cliff Porter (Dec 1, 2010)

> Not just him & that's the reason we may be getting "red" Lodges. Didn't I say something a while back about shooting ourselves in the feet?



Are you saying that Texas would revoke recognition and then try to run lodges with the Scottish Rite's ritual under the Grand Lodge after revoking recognition of the 4th through the 32nd degrees?  That seems extra wrong....


----------



## Bill Lins (Dec 1, 2010)

No- the way I hear it is that GLoT wants control of SR in Texas, which ain't gonna happen. Thus, GLoT would revoke recognition of SR, forcing SR Masons to choose between SR & GLoT. Then, SR would open their own Lodges & confer the 1st through 32nd Degrees.

Most areas can barely support one Lodge as it is- what do you think would happen if our Lodges split up into SR v. GLoT? Personally, I think it might be the end of Masonry in Texas. I can only hope cooler heads prevail.


----------



## Frater Cliff Porter (Dec 1, 2010)

Man Brother I didn't realize it was that bad of a deal.  I honestly can't imagine the SR just opening lodges.  I would think they would try to stay calm and ride the wave of megalomania until relations were restored.

I will keep you guys in my prayers.  I hope that it works out.  

If the rumors I heard a true, the reasons for revoking the recognition probably won't sit well with most.


----------



## jwhoff (Dec 1, 2010)

dbindel said:


> Interestingly, after visiting some of the Scottish Rite lodges in New Orleans last year, it became apparent that they are not purely Scottish Rite, but now actually work an amalgamation containing elements from both the Scottish and the York Rites



So I've been told by other traveling brethren.  Louisiana has many charters including those from _Port Au Prince _and Pennsylvania.  I suppose there was much levity through the 1830s when things began to come together.  Talk about a true melting pot; gotta love my home state.


----------



## Dave in Waco (Dec 3, 2010)

I think it will be a very sad day for Masonry in Texas Bro. Bill. I also think that GL would be more then shooting itself in the foot in cutting relations with SR. I would especially so since I know many of the mainstays and fixtures around GL in Waco are big time into Scottish Rite including at least one candidate for the Grand South this year. 

Plus I think that could put GL on an island with other Grand Jurisdictions IMO.  In this day and time, we need to pulling our brothers and appendent bodies closer, not separating from them. 

I haven't looked it up, but say if they did wish to revoke recognition what would that take?


----------



## david918 (Dec 6, 2010)

Did anything about this come up at Grand Lodge?


----------



## Bill Lins (Dec 6, 2010)

Frater Cliff Porter said:


> I honestly can't imagine the SR just opening lodges.  I would think they would try to stay calm and ride the wave of megalomania until relations were restored.


 
They wouldn't have a choice. GLoT Masons couldn't attend without getting kicked out of GLoT, in which case they couldn't attend because they would no longer be Masons. If SR didn't open their own Lodges, they'd have no other option but to close the Valleys.


----------



## Bill Lins (Dec 6, 2010)

Dave in Waco said:


> I think it will be a very sad day for Masonry in Texas Bro. Bill. I also think that GL would be more then shooting itself in the foot in cutting relations with SR. Plus I think that could put GL on an island with other Grand Jurisdictions IMO.  In this day and time, we need to pulling our brothers and appendent bodies closer, not separating from them.


 
I agree entirely.



Dave in Waco said:


> I haven't looked it up, but say if they did wish to revoke recognition what would that take?



AFAIK, the GM could just issue an edict. Of course, it would have to be ratified @ GL, but by then the damage would already have been done.  :sad:


----------



## Bill Lins (Dec 6, 2010)

david918 said:


> Did anything about this come up at Grand Lodge?


 
Almost. When the GM gave his report & asked that it be approved, Bro. Harold Collum got up & asked why there was nothing in the report about it. If he had asked that the report be rejected as incomplete, they'd have had to speak to it. As he didn't call for an action, they just ruled his comments irrelevant & shut him off. :sad:


----------



## Ashton Lawson (Dec 7, 2010)

I don't know enough about the present GM (Gene Carnes) to have any idea what his feelings on this are, but I can't help but think the PGM wouldn't have leaned this way given his past and present involvement with the Scottish Rite. His Bio speaks for itself found here: http://www.grandlodgeoftexas.org/node/1935



> He received the fourth through the thirty-second degrees of Scottish Rite of Freemasonry in Dallas in 1981; the Investiture of Knight Commander of the Court of Honour in 1993 and in 1999 was nominated and elected by the Supreme Council of the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite of Freemasonry, Southern Jurisdiction to receive the Thirty-Third Degree to assume the title of Inspector General Honorary. Orville served as General Secretary of the Dallas Scottish Rite Bodies in Dallas from 2001 through 2004 where he is an Endowed Member, and in addition holds Endowed Memberships in the Fort Worth and Waco Scottish Rite Bodies. He serves as a Trustee of the Texas Scottish Rite Hospital for Children in Dallas, and is also a member of Hella Shrine, and Alla Grotto.


 
While his Scottish Rite history is far outweighed by his York Rite history, it seems a far-fetched rumor to think he'd wish any ill will to an organization he is still an influential member of in Texas. His recent edict regarding exemplification of the work does give one pause for thought, but that seems more of an administrative warning regarding territory than a sign of a schism between organizations.


----------



## Bill Lins (Dec 7, 2010)

I hope & pray that you're right.


----------



## jwhoff (Dec 7, 2010)

david918 said:


> d anything about this come up at Grand Lodge?



There was a disturbance of sorts when the Grand Master's report of his activities came up.  It was short, and to the point.  The claim was that the report was not totally complete, that something had been left out.  I too wondered if this was in reference.


----------



## tom268 (Dec 8, 2010)

AhimanBeard said:


> It is, however, fascinating to know that some lodges still work the A.A.S.R. in its initial ritualized fashion (Rather than the theatrical one).


 This is standard for most AASR bodies outside of the USA. The theatrical fashion is a very US thing. So, maybe, with the next trip to good old Europe, you take your cap with you.


----------



## dbindel (Dec 8, 2010)

I'm visiting an English Constitution Chapter Rose-Croix tonight in Hong Kong. Not quite the same as an AASR symbolic lodge, but the English, too, did not follow the Americans in making the Rite more of a theatre-style performance.

They accept Christians only, and they perfect one candidate during any given conferral, the only degree worked being the 18th (those preceding are conferred in name and under an umbrella obligation only). The Chapter Rose-Croix as they hold it is a very mystical experience.

The next degree conferred is the 30th, but it is restricted to those who have served their Chapter as Most Wise Sovereign, and the degrees beyond that are high honors that few receive.

You can imagine their shock when I first visited two years ago (at the age of 21) and was introduced as a 32nd degree Scottish Rite Mason.

They also use the full traditional regalia of the Rite whenever they meet (similar to what can be seen in the SR Ritual Monitor)... not a bellboy cap!


----------



## tom268 (Dec 9, 2010)

Seem to mirror my surprise, when I first chatted with a 32nd, who had no idea about masonry and admitted at last, that he was a brother for 2 weeks. At that time I was a humble 6th degree Swedish Rite with 5 years membership.


----------



## Benton (Dec 11, 2010)

tom268 said:


> Seem to mirror my surprise, when I first chatted with a 32nd, who had no idea about masonry and admitted at last, that he was a brother for 2 weeks. At that time I was a humble 6th degree Swedish Rite with 5 years membership.



How could he have only been a brother for two weeks? Did he go through some sort of one day blue lodge course, then immediately go into the SR?


----------



## tom268 (Dec 11, 2010)

Yes, something like that. I was very surprised that he couldn't even understand what I mean with the term "blue lodge". I don't know any more, from which state he was, but aparrently, they do one-day-classes in a kind of masonic college without ever seeing a blue lodge temple of know any brother.
But it was a forum for regular brother masons only, so that must be the way in some maintream US grand lodges.


----------



## Benton (Dec 11, 2010)

There have been some US Grand Lodges that have done one day classes.

Stories like yours are why I think they're a terrible idea.


----------



## tom268 (Dec 11, 2010)

I must confess, that experiences like this heavily influenced my picture of US masonry. It took several years to realize, that it is indeed different to what I know, but that there are still some extremes with what the US brothers are not happy, too.


----------



## Benton (Dec 11, 2010)

I think the one day degree programs are extremes even within the US. Not many Grand Lodges in the US have held them, and they seem to be a dying fad because of stories like yours. While I'm sure you get some amazing brothers in the one day degrees, I think you're far more likely to get some less than amazing brothers as well. And it only takes a few to cast a bad light on the rest of us.


----------



## tom268 (Dec 13, 2010)

Benton said:


> And it only takes a few to cast a bad light on the rest of us.


 It takes only one ..... and a press release or public law suit.


----------



## Dave in Waco (Dec 13, 2010)

I don't think the one day classes will be catching on any time soon.  We overwelmingly voted down the shortening of the work in this past Grand Lodge...!


----------



## jwhoff (Dec 13, 2010)

Indeed!  Far too many go the long route and have trouble digesting their instruction.  The possibility that a man can obtain three Blue Lodge and 29 Scottish Rite degrees in a couple of weekends is horrendous.  Initiation implies some form of transformation.  Couldn't see how anything but the craft can be transformed with this going on.  Not the best of ideas.  Should we not guard against those comments about numbers?  Can you have quantity and quality in so short a time? Impossible?


----------



## Benton (Dec 14, 2010)

I really think the one day initiations turn Blue Lodge Masonry into McBlue Lodge Masonry, and I hope they go away for good. Contrary to what some people and brothers may think, I don't believe my generation wants something so devoid of meaning that in can be digested in one day. Freemasonry can't be digested in that time, and we're doing it a disservice if we think otherwise. It's one thing for the appendant bodies to have degree festivals, as they have Masons who have gone through the three degrees regularly and served a proper time as such. They know the caliber of men they're getting. 

Blue Lodge, however, needs to be wary. The youth of today doesn't want cheap, easy Freemasonry, they want it to mean something and have impact in their life. And while a good portion from that comes from each of us internally applying that meaning ourselves, another good portion of that meaning comes from us treating the fraternity with respect. If you truly believe its a philosophy to live your life by, treat it with some reverence. Then others will want to know what secret you have that has changed your life so much.


----------



## tom268 (Dec 14, 2010)

I belong to the Swedish Rite. We have 10 degrees, including the 3 blue degrees in our own, special form. We need 12-15 years, in Scandinavia even up to 20 years, to get to the 10th degree.


----------



## Benton (Dec 14, 2010)

Wow, that's pretty amazing. I've heard of the Swedish Rite, but I admit I know nothing about it. One to two decades is a pretty big commitment!


----------



## tom268 (Dec 14, 2010)

As you sign a paper in the 8th degree, that your connection to the order can never be broken or loosened, that is not the deal. You have a lifetime to learn, and being in a degree for 2 or 3 years before advancing, you can get the tone of that degree very good.


----------



## Mindovermatter Ace (Feb 19, 2016)

I don't know where to begin as there is a lot of erroneous information in this thread and it's quite old. 
There are ten lodges under the jurisdiction of the Grand Lodge of Louisiana which comprises its 16th District. These lodges are the Scottish symbolic lodges. Cervantes #5 is the oldest continuously ran Scottish Symbolic lodge in the world and all of the Orients in South America trace lineage to it. 

There are currently 3 Grand Lodges in America, that hold Scottish symbolic lodges under its obedience. The Grand Lodges of NY, CA, and Louisiana. 

In 1833, The GLoLA founded what it called the "Chamber of Rites" to house the 3 different Rites and the chamber issued new charters under the GL jurisdiction. Prior to that, there was much confusion among masons when visiting lodges. In 1812 the GLoLA was founded by French Masons who worked the French or Modern Rite and the Scotch Rite as well as the English York Rite. 

Mississippi accusing the GL of being irregular for accommodating all of the Rites, invaded Louisiana and chartered several lodges that formed an English Grand Lodge of Ancient York Masons for the state of Louisiana. They ratified their issues in 1850 forming the GLoLA that we have today. The English eventually took over Freemasonry in Louisiana, however the 1833 agreements are still valid, which is why The Grand Lodge of Louisiana currently still has these ten SR lodges.  The Scottish Rite literally came into America, on the ports of New Orleans.


----------



## Warrior1256 (Feb 28, 2016)

jwhoff said:


> The possibility that a man can obtain three Blue Lodge and 29 Scottish Rite degrees in a couple of weekends is horrendous.


As far as I know here in the Valley of Louisville AASR degrees are only confered in one or two day reunions.


----------

