# Traveling past master



## JMartinez (Aug 22, 2016)

How can you prove that you are a past master when traveling? I've noticed that the dues cards look the same. I guess the lodge you're visiting would have to make enquiries to your home grand lodge?


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## Ripcord22A (Aug 22, 2016)

In OR our dues cards are different for different levels.  PM, PGLofficer, PGM ECT

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## Bloke (Aug 22, 2016)

JMartinez said:


> How can you prove that you are a past master when traveling? I've noticed that the dues cards look the same. I guess the lodge you're visiting would have to make enquiries to your home grand lodge?



Or you prove you are a FM then they take your word for it ?


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## Brother JC (Aug 22, 2016)

Installed Masters have their own secrets...


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## Bill Lins (Aug 22, 2016)

JMartinez said:


> I've noticed that the dues cards look the same.


If you look more closely, you'll notice that "Past Master" is printed on the dues cards of GLoTX members who rate it.


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## Glen Cook (Aug 23, 2016)

JMartinez said:


> How can you prove that you are a past master when traveling? I've noticed that the dues cards look the same. I guess the lodge you're visiting would have to make enquiries to your home grand lodge?


Why does it matter in the US?


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## MarkR (Aug 23, 2016)

Brother JC said:


> Installed Masters have their own secrets...


Not in all states.  Minnesota doesn't do the Board of Installed Masters installation.

I'm curious why, when you're visiting, you'd need to prove anything other than your status as a MM?  Unless it's to witness the installation of a WM in a state that does confer the secrets of the chair.


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## JMartinez (Aug 23, 2016)

Glen Cook said:


> Why does it matter in the US?



It was just a question I had been pondering.


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## Derinique Kendrick (Aug 23, 2016)

Dues cards normally, depending where you are show that they are a PM. At least where I am they do


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## Dontrell Stroman (Aug 23, 2016)

JMartinez said:


> It was just a question I had been pondering.


In my jurisdiction, a PM or visiting PM can sit in the east with the WM


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## Glen Cook (Aug 23, 2016)

Travelling Man91 said:


> In my jurisdiction, a PM or visiting PM can sit in the east with the WM


That is common in the US, I agree.  Do people actually avail themselves of the courtesy?


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## Bloke (Aug 23, 2016)

Glen Cook said:


> That is common in the US, I agree.  Do people actually avail themselves of the courtesy?


In Victoria, a lodge opens in the First Degree, traditionally without visitors. Once open and biz transacted, a report is taken. Visiting MMs (EAs &FCs) are then admitted. Another report is given, then visiting PMs are admitted, but escorted by the DC and introduced to the WM "WM i present WBro x, past master of Lodge of y". PM goes to WM but stays on floor, PM and WM shakes hands, say G'day and pleasantries, PM generally seats in East to left of WM. Another report is taken. Visiting WMs - all rise, deacons and dc get into position and WM received under crossed  (rods) and escorted to East. DC intros " WM, I present the WM of X Lodge, WBro y" Visiting WM approaches WM, ascends dias, they shake hands, chat, shake ends and deacons break wands, WM sits, visiting WM sits to WM right.

It matters here cause WM and PMs represent their lodges when visiting via forml intro. During Installations, a board of installed WMs opened ( PMs stay ) and WM installed. It matters then as well. PMs distinguished by their apron (MMs and above have and use own apron here)...

It's common for visitors to ask for permission to be present during Opening which sidesteps the above ... but WMs should enter under wands and represent their lodge...


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## Glen Cook (Aug 23, 2016)

Bloke said:


> In Victoria, a lodge opens in the First Degree, traditionally without visitors. Once open and biz transacted, a report is taken. Visiting MMs (EAs &FCs) are then admitted. Another report is given, then visiting PMs are admitted, but escorted by the DC and introduced to the WM "WM i present WBro x, past master of Lodge of y". PM goes to WM but stays on floor, PM and WM shakes hands, say G'day and pleasantries, PM generally seats in East to left of WM. Another report is taken. Visiting WMs - all rise, deacons and dc get into position and WM received under crossed  (rods) and escorted to East. DC intros " WM, I present the WM of X Lodge, WBro y" Visiting WM approaches WM, ascends dias, they shake hands, chat, shake ends and deacons break wands, WM sits, visiting WM sits to WM right.
> 
> It matters here cause WM and PMs represent their lodges when visiting via forml intro. During Installations, a board of installed WMs opened ( PMs stay ) and WM installed. It matters then as well. PMs distinguished by their apron (MMs and above have and use own apron here)...
> 
> It's common for visitors to ask for permission to be present during Opening which sidesteps the above ... but WMs should enter under wands and represent their lodge...


Umm, yeah. My comment was about the US


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## dfreybur (Aug 23, 2016)

Glen Cook said:


> That is common in the US, I agree.  Do people actually avail themselves of the courtesy?



I checked in my wallet.  The two jurisdictions where I am a PM it is mentioned on both cards.  They both also list my life/endowed member status.

Among my jurisdictions only one mentions in the opening that WMs and PMs are invited to seats in the east.  None ever went unless specifically asked during awards meetings.  In my mother lodge it was always a joke that when welcoming a new PM at the Stated meeting after his out-stalation that all PMs stand, take a step, step back, sit down.

I've had to prove myself an MM in several states during visits.  I have never needed to prove I'm a PM by any means other than pulling out the PM apron from my briefcase or comparing detailed differences in the PM symbol on rings.

And by offering to give Masonic Education presentations but that's more correlated with my activity on this forum than with being a PM.


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## Warrior1256 (Aug 23, 2016)

Glen Cook said:


> That is common in the US, I agree.  Do people actually avail themselves of the courtesy?


I've only been an MM for two years but I've visited a lot of lodges and I've not seen this happen.


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## Dontrell Stroman (Aug 23, 2016)

Glen Cook said:


> That is common in the US, I agree.  Do people actually avail themselves of the courtesy?


I have seen it on one occasion. I say that to say, if a brother was visiting another jurisdiction and wanted to sit in the east with the WM there should be a way for him to prove he is a PM via dues card etc. And yes I know, not every jurisdiction has dues card, so there should be another way


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## Glen Cook (Aug 23, 2016)

Travelling Man91 said:


> I have seen it on one occasion. I say that to say, if a brother was visiting another jurisdiction and wanted to sit in the east with the WM there should be a way for him to prove he is a PM via dues card etc. And yes I know, not every jurisdiction has dues card, so there should be another way


Well, it isn't about what we "want" to do, is it?  Surely the pleasure is in attending the lodge, not where we sit as a visitor?  
I will tell you that the lodges I visit in the Highlands don't know of my grand rank. My goal is to go and have a good time, not to show an apron.


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## Dontrell Stroman (Aug 23, 2016)

Glen Cook said:


> Well, it isn't about what we "want" to do, is it?  Surely the pleasure is in attending the lodge, not where we sit as a visitor?
> I will tell you that the lodges I visit in the Highlands don't know of my grand rank. My goal is to go and have a good time, not to show an apron.


That's good brother. Some brothers want a little more recognition


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## Canadian Paul (Aug 23, 2016)

a Dues Card may indicate that the holder is a Past Master by, in a Scottish lodge, here, putting the letters 'PM" after his name, or, in our sister constitution, giving him the title 'Wor. Bro. '

As our lodges always open in the EA degree a visiting brother will only have to prove himself in that degree. If the lodge goes to a higher degree ALL brethren are 'on their masonic honour' to retire before the lodge is passed or raised, or, at an installation,  a Board of Installed Masters is opened, if they have not received that degree.

As long a a visiting brother has been Installed as Master in  a lodge under a Grand Lodge recognised by the GL of Scotland he may remain in a Board of Installed Masters even if he is not in possession of the Secrets of that Ceremony.


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## Glen Cook (Aug 23, 2016)

Travelling Man91 said:


> That's good brother. Some brothers want a little more recognition


Yeah, but then they recognize me from America's Most Wanted and everything gets so awkward


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## Winter (Aug 24, 2016)

My dues card has a W:. before my name to indicate my status as a Past Master. 

Transmitted via my R5 astromech.


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## MarkR (Aug 26, 2016)

I've been invited to sit in the east at several lodges I've visited, but I always respectfully decline.  At some lodges, if every past master sat in the east, it would get very crowded up there!


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## Bloke (Aug 26, 2016)

MarkR said:


> I've been invited to sit in the east at several lodges I've visited, but I always respectfully decline.  At some lodges, if every past master sat in the east, it would get very crowded up there!



We have the opposite problem in my lodges now...


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## Dontrell Stroman (Aug 26, 2016)

Don't tell me every one wants to sit in the east lol


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## Bloke (Aug 26, 2016)

Travelling Man91 said:


> Don't tell me every one wants to sit in the east lol


Nope, we've only got a few (5) attending PMs at my mother lodge who are idle, the rest (normally around 20) are MMs


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## Jim Barr (Aug 26, 2016)

In South Carolina, dues cards do not indicate if you are a Past Master. That said, the Past Master's degree in South Carolina is open to all "Ancient Free Masons" a designation that only South Carolina lodges have, so out-of-state Masons are respectfully asked to vacate the lodge during this degree.


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## Bill Lins (Aug 26, 2016)

Jim Barr said:


> In South Carolina, dues cards do not indicate if you are a Past Master. That said, the Past Master's degree in South Carolina is open to all "Ancient Free Masons" a designation that only South Carolina lodges have, so out-of-state Masons are respectfully asked to vacate the lodge during this degree.


I'm a bit confused here. The thread is referring to those who have actually served a full term (or more) as the WM of their Lodge, not to those who have received the PM Degree. Are you saying that any SC MM can take part in (or be present during) the PM Degree? It is my understanding that, here in Texas, only sitting WMs can receive that Degree, although I stand to be corrected.


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## Jim Barr (Aug 26, 2016)

Bill_Lins77488 said:


> I'm a bit confused here. The thread is referring to those who have actually served a full term (or more) as the WM of their Lodge, not to those who have received the PM Degree. Are you saying that any SC MM can take part in (or be present during) the PM Degree? It is my understanding that, here in Texas, only sitting WMs can receive that Degree, although I stand to be corrected.


No, I wasn't clear. Only South Carolina Past Masters can participate in or view the Past Mater's degree. Newly elected Worshipful Masters are given the Past Master's degree upon installation.


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## pointwithinacircle2 (Aug 26, 2016)

Bloke said:


> Nope, we've only got a few (5) attending PMs at my mother lodge who are idle, the rest (normally around 20) are MMs


My home Lodge currently has two living PM's.  We have a somewhat unusual situation.


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## Bloke (Aug 26, 2016)

pointwithinacircle2 said:


> My home Lodge currently has two living PM's.  We have a somewhat unusual situation.



That's not many at all !


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## Bloke (Aug 26, 2016)

Bill_Lins77488 said:


> I'm a bit confused here. The thread is referring to those who have actually served a full term (or more) as the WM of their Lodge, not to those who have received the PM Degree. Are you saying that any SC MM can take part in (or be present during) the PM Degree? It is my understanding that, here in Texas, only sitting WMs can receive that Degree, although I stand to be corrected.



(here...) A Past Master is just that - a Past Worshipful Master  - it cannot be conferred, you must have been installed in a Craft Lodge as its Master.


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## Bill Lins (Aug 26, 2016)

Bloke said:


> (here...) A Past Master is just that - a Past Worshipful Master  - it cannot be conferred, you must have been installed in a Craft Lodge as its Master.


Same here, but the York Rite here has what is called a "Past Master's Degree". Here it has nothing to do with the Blue Lodge, except only sitting WMs are eligible to receive it, I am told.


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## Bloke (Aug 26, 2016)

Bill_Lins77488 said:


> Same here, but the York Rite here has what is called a "Past Master's Degree". Here it has nothing to do with the Blue Lodge, except only sitting WMs are eligible to receive it, I am told.


Understood.


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## MarkR (Aug 27, 2016)

No, the York Rite "Virtual Past Master" degree can be conferred on any MM.  It was invented because it used to be that only PM's could be exalted to the Holy Royal Arch.  In order to open it up to more members, they created the VPM to confer before exaltation.

There is a "secrets of the chair" degree, called by various names, that is conferred on an incoming lodge Master by a "board of installed masters" in private at some point in the installation of lodge officers for the year.  Minnesota doesn't do this; I don't know how many states do.


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## Bill Lins (Aug 27, 2016)

MarkR said:


> There is a "secrets of the chair" degree, called by various names, that is conferred on an incoming lodge Master by a "board of installed masters" in private at some point in the installation of lodge officers for the year.  Minnesota doesn't do this; I don't know how many states do.


I don't think Texas does that either.


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## Bloke (Aug 28, 2016)

This whole PM thing here is so important, because we open Boards of Installed Masters to install our WMs.... had one last night - and a PM was there from New Zealand, if he was a MM, he would not have seen it... funny thing was... a few years ago, only a handful of men (MM and below) would have to leave.... at the one last night - most of the room left which was noticeable, because there was about 60 in the lodge room.. and only about 20 for the Board of Installed Masters..


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## Ripcord22A (Aug 28, 2016)

Every intallation ive been to the WM is installed last.  Hes invested with his jewel and gavel amd given his charge, right there in front of everyone.....does this "secret" board of installed masters do something more then that?

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## Bloke (Aug 28, 2016)

jdmadsenCraterlake211 said:


> Every intallation ive been to the WM is installed last.  Hes invested with his jewel and gavel amd given his charge, right there in front of everyone.....does this "secret" board of installed masters do something more then that?
> 
> Sent from my LG-H811 using My Freemasonry Pro mobile app



Without being silly, I cant answer the question beyond, yes, more happens.. i actually want to make a comment in our newsletter about the Board we held Sat, but cant figure how to do it and will take advice from PMs..


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## Bill Lins (Aug 28, 2016)

Generally we install our officers in a MM Lodge which has been called from labor so that the honored Brethrens' families may attend and share in the honors.


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## Bloke (Aug 28, 2016)

Bill_Lins77488 said:


> Generally we install our officers in a MM Lodge which has been called from labor so that the honored Brethrens' families may attend and share in the honors.



Thanks Bill

Here, that would be called an "Open Installation". SW and JW are installed in front of the public, other officers as invested - exactly as per ritual with signs removed.. Prior, the lodge is closed. They are moderately common- my mother lodge has only done one, a lodge I was a founder of has done 7 of its 8 Installations that way.. You need GL's approval to do an Open.

A Master here is only ever made a Master in a Board of Installed Masters which only admits brethren who have attained the rank of Worshipful Master and Past Masters


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## dfreybur (Aug 29, 2016)

Traveling past master - Is that like a traveling gavel?  If you visit with five or more members you get to take him home with you ...  ;^)


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## Brother JC (Aug 29, 2016)

That would be one way to clear the peanut gallery!


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## Bloke (Aug 29, 2016)

dfreybur said:


> Traveling past master - Is that like a traveling gavel?  If you visit with five or more members you get to take him home with you ...  ;^)


 Hehehehe


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## Bill Lins (Aug 29, 2016)

That's one way to get rid of those pesky PMs!


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## MarkR (Aug 30, 2016)

Brother JC said:


> That would be one way to clear the peanut gallery!


We call it "buzzards' row."


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