# Diversity in the Nomination of Awards



## SeeKer.mm (Jan 22, 2016)

I am wondering what everyone thinks about the recent racism accusations made by some actors in the media due to the "Lack of Diversity" in the Academy nominations? I personally haven't seen any of the movies nominated as I am not much of a movie buff, but when people continue to light the racism torch I tend to pay some attention as all too often we hear racism this and racism that in the media for one reason or another.

  My thought is that there are so many things going on this world as a whole and this is what the actors and Western entertainment community are taking a stand on?  I don't hear many "Unpaid" actors talking up agricultural issues, the lack of sustainability across many of our resources, or encouraging diversity in how we treat each other as fellow human beings.  How about using their talent and resources to help programs that would discourage those who would spread hatred in the name of God, feeding the hungry, empowering the abused.  We have school shootings, starvation, terrorism, domestic/ child abuse and a lack of "willingness to co-exist" all across the world and I find myself having to turn the channel on many a radio and TV station because all I hear is noise about who is boycotting a Hollywood award show? I'd much rather hear those with power and ability take on the real problems of the world.   Is there something terribly wrong with this big picture or am I off in what I am feeling?  I am hoping to listen to  the opinion of others on the issue, especially those with whom I share the working tools of our profession.  

Thanks


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## NY.Light.II (Jan 22, 2016)

Is it not more racist and infantilizing to nominate people solely because they typify a racial demographic?


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## dfreybur (Jan 22, 2016)

Every industry that goes from being policed by outsiders to policing itself, I'm for that transition.


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## AndreAshlar (Jan 23, 2016)

NY.Light.II said:


> Is it not more racist and infantilizing to nominate people solely because they typify a racial demographic?


Maybe I missed something.  My understanding is there's disappointment because equal consideration to non-whites isn't given for the awards.  And it's based on race.  If actors/actresses from diverse backgrounds produce outstanding work, thespians from diverse backgrounds should receive nominations.  Demanding equal opportunity to combat racist policies isn't racist.  To think so is preposterous.  To verbalize that stance is double talk.  No one wants nominations for non whites based on race.  I'd like to see them based on superb acting.  2 years in a row, there hasn't been a single non white actor or actress nominated for an Oscar.  Have only whites been worthy of nominations?


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## Bill Lins (Jan 24, 2016)

AndreAshlar said:


> Maybe I missed something.  My understanding is there's disappointment because equal consideration to non-whites isn't given for the awards.  And it's based on race.


That is the accusation, based MERELY upon the fact that no persons of color have been nominated for the past 2 years. Look a little further back, not only at the nominees but the winners. 


AndreAshlar said:


> Have only whites been worthy of nominations?


According to those who made that decision, yes. Remember that those are the same folks who made the decisions in earlier years, as referenced above. Can't have things both ways.


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## AndreAshlar (Jan 24, 2016)

Bill_Lins77488 said:


> That is the accusation, based MERELY upon the fact that no persons of color have been nominated for the past 2 years. Look a little further back, not only at the nominees but the winners.


It's sad that you can't see the problem with this...


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## AndreAshlar (Jan 24, 2016)

Bill_Lins77488 said:


> Can't have things both ways.


Why not?


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## Bill Lins (Jan 25, 2016)

AndreAshlar said:


> It's sad that you can't see the problem with this...


So you think that every year, persons of color should receive nominations just because of their color?


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## AndreAshlar (Jan 25, 2016)

Bill_Lins77488 said:


> So you think that every year, persons of color should receive nominations just because of their color?


No.  I KNOW that they should receive nominations AND win awards for excellence in their craft.  That does not happen with the frequency that it should.  It's not even close...


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## AndreAshlar (Jan 25, 2016)

2015 - 20 acting nominations.  20 white nominees.
2016 -  20 acting nominations.  20 white nominees.

Part of the problem is that The Academy is an honor society, in which industry experience is the primary consideration to join.  The Academy is 94% white, 77% male and overwhelmingly old school.  Chronologically and in their thinking.  Middle age to elderly white males with longevity in Hollywood make the decisions. Study the history of racism in Hollywood to gain further insight into the mind of the typical Academy voter.  It's not tough to see unless your eyes are wide shut.


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## Bloke (Jan 26, 2016)

Out of interest Andre, what actor missed out on a nomination this year ?


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## AndreAshlar (Jan 26, 2016)

Bloke said:


> Out of interest Andre, what actor missed out on a nomination this year ?


You just want one?  That's easy.  Idris Elba.  Beasts of No Nation.


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## Dontrell Stroman (Jan 26, 2016)

Denzel Washington is my favorite actor. That brother need a nomination for any movie he plays in. I haven't seen him act in a movie that wasn't good yet.


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## AndreAshlar (Jan 26, 2016)

Travelling Man91 said:


> Denzel Washington is my favorite actor. That brother need a nomination for any movie he plays in. I haven't seen him act in a movie that wasn't good yet.


Apparently, he's never been good enough.  Ever.


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## Dontrell Stroman (Jan 26, 2016)

Name a movie he hasn't been good in. Don't worry I'll wait......... Ha ha


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## SeeKer.mm (Jan 26, 2016)

I have a question and please no one take this the wrong way but have any Native Americans,  Hispanics,  Whites,  Asians or otherwise ever been nominated  for a BET award? If so pray tell.   If not... Then why not and what's the difference? I am not interested in Hollywood but I am concerned about the unity of our Brotherhood and our Nation for that matter as it relates to racial issues.  For perspective's sake I'll put it out there that I am neither black nor am I white, nor do I believe color of skin matters.   From a completely neutral point of view on the whole Awards B.S going on in the news,  I ask.. What is the difference? If persons of color have not been the only ones nominated for BET awards then I would find that refreshing and call that progress. Which is it?


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## Dontrell Stroman (Jan 26, 2016)

SeeKer.mm said:


> I have a question and please no one take this the wrong way but have any Native Americans,  Hispanics,  Whites,  Asians or otherwise ever been nominated  for a BET award? If so pray tell.   If not... Then why not and what's the difference? I am not interested in Hollywood but I am concerned about the unity of our Brotherhood and our Nation for that matter as it relates to racial issues.  For perspective's sake I'll put it out there that I am neither black nor am I white, nor do I believe color of skin matters.   From a completely neutral point of view on the whole Awards B.S going on in the news,  I ask.. What is the difference? If persons of color have not been the only ones nominated for BET awards then I would find that refreshing and call that progress. Which is it?


I agree with you brother, but you are aware that there has been controversy over BET for some time right, over the same matter.


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## SeeKer.mm (Jan 26, 2016)

Hi Traveling man91 and thank you for your response.  I have  not seen or heard much controversy about BET to be honest with you.  Definitely not to the extent of media coverage the Academy is getting. It's like a waste of airwaves and information with all that's going on in the world right now.   This is what we worry about in America today? It saddens me that the people of our great Nation have their priorities so Damn twisted,  no matter what color or heritage they claim.  Pardon the rant, Brothers,  I just want to see us do better than this.


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## Dontrell Stroman (Jan 26, 2016)

SeeKer.mm said:


> Hi Traveling man91 and thank you for your response.  I have  not seen or heard much controversy about BET to be honest with you.  Definitely not to the extent of media coverage the Academy is getting. It's like a waste of airwaves and information with all that's going on in the world right now.   This is what we worry about in America today? It saddens me that the people of our great Nation have their priorities so Damn twisted,  no matter what color or heritage they claim.  Pardon the rant, Brothers,  I just want to see us do better than this.


No, not to this extent, but the matter has been brought up on multiple occasions. When people feel oppressed/ inferior they become passionate about what they want to see changed. I feel the same way about racism in freemasonry. I don't like it, I think we are all brothers working toward the same common goals. Again, I agree with you but until people stop allowing skin color to affect their judgment on other people, race will always be on the front line of debates and division. One of my favorite quotes "we are all one race, the human race"


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## Dontrell Stroman (Jan 26, 2016)

It is sad that we blows up issues such as this as if there is nothing else to talk about. I once heard a man say " the way to end racism is stop talking about it" I believe that quote has some truth to it.


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## Randy81 (Jan 26, 2016)

Actors and actresses get paid millions of dollars to do little and less. I've never watched nor cared about any awards but I'm sure there are flaws as with everything. The true shame is actors get paid more than Soldiers and Marines!


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## Randy81 (Jan 26, 2016)

I should mention police officers and teachers as well...


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## Dontrell Stroman (Jan 26, 2016)

Randy81 said:


> Actors and actresses get paid millions of dollars to do little and less. I've never watched nor cared about any awards but I'm sure there are flaws as with everything. The true shame is actors get paid more than Soldiers and Marines!


Couldn't agree more. I feel the same way about politicians also. The working man has always been paid less.


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## Randy81 (Jan 26, 2016)

Travelling Man91 said:


> Couldn't agree more. I feel the same way about politicians also. The working man has always been paid less.


Lol, I know right! I'm not trying to take away from the issue as I am quite sure it is indeed unfair but they're still millionaires! In my book, that's a win.


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## Dontrell Stroman (Jan 26, 2016)

Randy81 said:


> Lol, I know right! I'm not trying to take away from the issue as I am quite sure it is indeed unfair but they're still millionaires! In my book, that's a win.


Yes they are, but to them it's more than just money. The struggle for equality.


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## AndreAshlar (Jan 26, 2016)

The bulk of these late responses serve as window dressing that completely overlooks the issue.  One more place where inequality has run amok.


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## Randy81 (Jan 26, 2016)

AndreAshlar said:


> The bulk of these late responses serve as window dressing that completely overlooks the issue.  One more place where inequality has run amok.


I'm Hispanic.... Were there any Latin nominees? I highly doubt it! Nor will we be getting anything on any BET awards either. I'm overlooking nothing. I just stated that I find it hard for an actor or actress to complain when they get so much to do so very little.


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## SeeKer.mm (Jan 26, 2016)

AndreAshlar said:


> The bulk of these late responses serve as window dressing that completely overlooks the issue.  One more place where inequality has run amok.



I don't get it... How has inequality run amuck.   Opinions are opinions we aren't segregating or oppressing anyone by disagreeing or agreeing.   It's called a discussion.   Why does it need to be more than that?


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## AndreAshlar (Jan 26, 2016)

SeeKer.mm said:


> I have a question and please no one take this the wrong way but have any Native Americans,  Hispanics,  Whites,  Asians or otherwise ever been nominated  for a BET award? If so pray tell.


I'm glad you asked.  Despite BET being created due to the lack of programming for Black Americans, non-blacks are not "blacked out" of being nominated and even winning at the BET Awards on a regular basis.  Let's look at 2015:

Mark Ronson, a white man, was nominated for the Centric Award
Sam Smith, a white man, was nominated for the Centric Award
Mark Ronson was nominated for the Best Collaboration Award
Iggy Azalea, a white woman, was nominated for the Best Female Hip Hop Artist Award
Ed Burke and Todd Tourso were nominate for the Video Director of the Year Award.  THEY WON.
Tinashe, whose maternal lineage is Norwegian, Danish and Irish, was nominated for Best New Artist.
Sam Smith was nominated for Best New Artist.  HE WON.
Let's go back another year to 2014...

Justin Timberlake, a white man, was nominated for Best R&B/Pop Artist
Macklemore & Ryan Lewis, both white men, were nominated for Best Group
Daft Punk, a duo of white men, were nominated for Best Group
Justin Timberlake was nominated for Best Collaboration
Robin Thicke, a white man, was nominated for Best Collaboration.  HE WON
Iggy Azalea was nominated for Best Female Hip Hop Artist
Colin Tilley, a white man, was nominated for Video Director of the Year
Ariana Grande, a white woman, was nominated for Best New Artist
There is no excuse for what continues to go on with the Oscars.  Some have eyes but simply refuse to see.  In a fraternity of men who believe in the brotherhood of men under the fatherhood of God, that's sad...


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## AndreAshlar (Jan 26, 2016)

Randy81 said:


> I'm Hispanic.... Were there any Latin nominees? I highly doubt it! Nor will we be getting anything on any BET awards either.



The nominees list last year was indeed diverse...  It included:

Majid Jordan - Bahrainian
Jhene' Aiko - Japanese, Jewish, Native American
Carmelo Anthony - Puerto Rican
Blake Griffin - Haitian
Rita Ora - Albanian

This list is shorter than previous years but coupled with all of the white nominees and winners, it's ions more diverse than what we see at the Oscars...


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## AndreAshlar (Jan 26, 2016)

SeeKer.mm said:


> I don't get it... How has inequality run amuck.   Opinions are opinions we aren't segregating or oppressing anyone by disagreeing or agreeing.   It's called a discussion.   Why does it need to be more than that?


Please allow me to clarify.  I wasn't referencing the opinions on this board when I stated that it's another example of inequality running amok.  I was actually referencing the Oscars...


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## SeeKer.mm (Jan 26, 2016)

Wow that is a long list and certainly does show a major amount of progress on eliminating racial divisions. Pardon my ignorance on the subject since I am not a big follower of the entertainment industry.  It is sad when there is racial imbalance in any industry.   Thanks for taking the time to write that list as it does open my eyes as to BET and there racial progression as an organization.   I think my major beef with the media coverage this issue has gotten is that it has  made it a black and white issue when there are so many more heritages and cultures in our Nation that are not represented. It seems these issues are always Black vs.  White or vice versa.   What about the rest of us? Perhaps if the argument was a lack of general diversity versus a lack of nominations of a particular group Ide be less inclined to get upset about it,  although another issue I have as stated in my original post is the importance we put on Hollywood as opposed to the many other injustices happening around the world.   Thanks for the post Ashlar.


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## SeeKer.mm (Jan 26, 2016)

AndreAshlar said:


> Please allow me to clarify.  I wasn't referencing the opinions on this board when I stated that it's another example of inequality running amok.  I was actually referencing the Oscars...


Thank you, sir,  for this clarification, I get it now.


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## Randy81 (Jan 26, 2016)

AndreAshlar said:


> This list is shorter than previous years but coupled with all of the white nominees and winners, it's ions more diverse than what we see at the Oscars...


Brother Andre, I was in no way saying that there isn't racism involved. There absolutely 100% is! I've never watched an Oscar or Grammy award show but I doubt it's much different than most things. I would assume if Denzel Washington has never won one there is something wrong for sure.


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## AndreAshlar (Jan 26, 2016)

SeeKer.mm said:


> I think my major beef with the media coverage this issue has gotten is that it has  made it a black and white issue...


The media can always conveniently highlight the black/white angle because of the deep, long, complex, history shared in America among the two groups.


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## SeeKer.mm (Jan 26, 2016)

AndreAshlar said:


> The media can always conveniently highlight the black/white angle because of the deep, long, complex, history shared in America among the two groups.


Sad but so very true. They play that angle and keep the drama going for the sake of ratings.  It's pretty damned sickening if you ask me.


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## Bill Lins (Jan 26, 2016)

AndreAshlar said:


> 2015 - 20 acting nominations.  20 white nominees.
> 2016 -  20 acting nominations.  20 white nominees.
> 
> Part of the problem is that The Academy is an honor society, in which industry experience is the primary consideration to join.  The Academy is 94% white, 77% male and overwhelmingly old school.  Chronologically and in their thinking.  Middle age to elderly white males with longevity in Hollywood make the decisions. Study the history of racism in Hollywood to gain further insight into the mind of the typical Academy voter.  It's not tough to see unless your eyes are wide shut.


My point, which you conveniently choose to ignore, is that the same group you claim to be racist simply because they haven't nominated any blacks _in the past 2 years _not only have nominated but have awarded Oscars to blacks in the years immediately preceding. This tells those of us with no ax to grind that it is quite possibly and most probably the case that, rather than being biased against blacks, they just decided that in the past 2 years, the performances of those who were nominated were superior to those who were not.


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## Bloke (Jan 26, 2016)

You'd have to survey them over time, 1980 or 1990 would be a good starting point, then look at potential winners who were not nominated.


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## AndreAshlar (Jan 26, 2016)

Bill_Lins77488 said:


> My point, which you conveniently choose to ignore, is that the same group you claim to be racist simply because they haven't nominated any blacks _in the past 2 years ..._



Your point has been conveniently addressed.  You mention that I claim that the Academy is racist simply because they've not nominated any blacks in the past 2 years.  You misquote me.  The history of the Academy and their selection of nominees and winners speaks for itself.


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## AndreAshlar (Jan 26, 2016)

Bill_Lins77488 said:


> This tells those of us with no ax to grind...



You're an upright man who seeks freedom, justice and equality for ALL people.  ALL the time... as I am.  Riddle me this: do you think that's a reality or an ideal that we still must achieve?  After providing that answer my brother, please define what it means to have "an ax to grind".


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## AndreAshlar (Jan 26, 2016)

Bill_Lins77488 said:


> rather than being biased against blacks, they just decided that in the past 2 years, the performances of those who were nominated were superior to those who were not.



87 years.
66 nominations.  That's a 0.76 nominations per year average.  Pathetic... wait it gets better.
During that same 87 year time frame, there have been 14 African American winners... that an average of less than one every 6 years. 
Looks like the past 2 years aren't an anomaly.  Either all of the on screen performances of African Americans suck or the selection process isn't equitable.  The impartial observer has no other choice than to select the latter.


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## AndreAshlar (Jan 26, 2016)

Bloke said:


> You'd have to survey them over time, 1980 or 1990 would be a good starting point, then look at potential winners who were not nominated.



Great point. Of the 14 African American winners, 12 have won in the last 33 years.  That's progress... an average of one winner every 3 years.  There are currently 24 categories.  72 winners every 3 years.  

Your second point  is great as well.  Potential winners who were not nominated transcends the construct of race.  That disappoint is felt by actors and actresses of all backgrounds.


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## AndreAshlar (Jan 26, 2016)




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## SeeKer.mm (Jan 26, 2016)

Hey Denzel did win one   Good video Andre,  I am surprised anyone not white won an Oscar before the 70s with all the racial injustice that went ton in those days.


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## Bloke (Jan 26, 2016)

Sidney Poitier...


He got on for Lilies of the Field(1964). He should have got one for Guess Who's Coming to Dinner ( the recent redux was terrible)


"In 1999, the American Film Institute named Poitier among the Greatest Male Stars of classic Hollywood cinema, ranking 22nd on the list of 25."


Well deserved....


On other matters, wikipedia claims "Whites constitute the majority of the U.S. population, with a total of about 245,532,000 or 77.7% of the population as of 2013"


That's from here


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demography_of_the_United_States

Call it 75% or 1 in 4, assuming "non whites" are correspondingly represented in the acting profession and written for and cast in the same ratios in decent movies, one might expect one nonwhite winner one in every 4 years..... but life is as rarely tidy as maths


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## Randy81 (Jan 26, 2016)

I recently moved to the southeast... If you want to see racism, come


SeeKer.mm said:


> Hey Denzel did win one   Good video Andre,  I am surprised anyone not white won an Oscar before the 70s with all the racial injustice that went ton in those days.


Hey wait, as I said I've never watched the program. I was going off of what they said when I said Denzel hadn't won! Lol.


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## Bill Lins (Jan 26, 2016)

AndreAshlar said:


> You're an upright man who seeks freedom, justice and equality for ALL people.  ALL the time... as I am.  Riddle me this: do you think that's a reality or an ideal that we still must achieve?


Obviously, it is an ideal we still must achieve, and that day will not come until we quit claiming racism based on things as trivial as the Academy Awards on evidence as flimsy as what a certain group has done over the past 2 years as opposed to what they have done in the years immediately preceding. The answer to the original poster's question is that we have much more important issues to resolve than who has and has not been nominated for awards that don't affect any of us outside the entertainment industry.


AndreAshlar said:


> After providing that answer my brother, please define what it means to have "an ax to grind".


That's too obvious to waste time answering.


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## Bill Lins (Jan 26, 2016)

AndreAshlar said:


> Your point has been conveniently addressed.  You mention that I claim that the Academy is racist simply because they've not nominated any blacks in the past 2 years.  You misquote me.


I think not- here's what you posted: "_2 years in a row, there hasn't been a single non white actor or actress nominated for an Oscar. Have only whites been worthy of nominations_?"


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## AndreAshlar (Jan 27, 2016)

Bill_Lins77488 said:


> I think not- here's what you posted: "_2 years in a row, there hasn't been a single non white actor or actress nominated for an Oscar. Have only whites been worthy of nominations_?"


I posed a legitimate question, no?


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## Bill Lins (Jan 27, 2016)

No- you changed your argument when your original one was proven wanting.


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## AndreAshlar (Jan 27, 2016)

Bill_Lins77488 said:


> That's too obvious to waste time answering.


Actually what's obvious to me is that we've both axes to grind.  Just different axes.  Mine is geared towards addressing inequality.  Not so with you.  Yours is geared towards people who voice displeasure with inequality.  See the difference?


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## AndreAshlar (Jan 27, 2016)

Bill_Lins77488 said:


> Obviously, it is an ideal we still must achieve, and that day will not come until we quit claiming racism...


I've a revolutionary thought.  What if we stopped DENYING obvious racism?


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## AndreAshlar (Jan 27, 2016)

Bill_Lins77488 said:


> No- you changed your argument when your original one was proven wanting.


Nice try.  My original statement was quote, "Maybe I missed something.  My understanding is there's disappointment because equal consideration to non-whites isn't given for the awards.  And it's based on race.  If actors/actresses from diverse backgrounds produce outstanding work, thespians from diverse backgrounds should receive nominations."  If you will, please highlight which part of that original statement was 1) false and 2)proven "wanting".  I'll wait.  Meanwhile, the 2 year Oscar snub just served as support to my original statement that you unsuccessfully attempt to twist.  I then, as you requested, provided a broader historical view of the obvious.


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## Bill Lins (Jan 27, 2016)

Your original post posited that the lack of nominations over the past two years was solely due to racism. When shown that, by the actions of the same group of voters over the immediately preceding years, your theory didn't hold water, you tried to base it on the actions of the Academy over its entire history, which could only be true if those voters had discovered & partaken of the Fountain of Youth. No sale. Quite frankly, I'm bored with this nonsense and will no longer respond to trolling, as my point has been proven.


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## AndreAshlar (Jan 27, 2016)

Bill_Lins77488 said:


> Your original post posited that the lack of nominations over the past two years was solely due to racism. When shown that, by the actions of the same group of voters over the immediately preceding years, your theory didn't hold water, you tried to base it on the actions of the Academy over its entire history, which could only be true if those voters had discovered & partaken of the Fountain of Youth. No sale. Quite frankly, I'm bored with this nonsense and will no longer respond to trolling, as my point has been proven.


See below


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## AndreAshlar (Jan 27, 2016)

AndreAshlar said:


> You respond, unsolicited to me.  When I address every single, weak comment you make and prevent you from hijacking my stance on inequality, you accuse me of trolling.  That's laughable.  Intelligent, fact based discourse doesn't work like that.  You must do better.  I hope you keep your promise of not responding.  It should be clear that your tactics don't phase me.


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## SeeKer.mm (Jan 27, 2016)

Thank you my Brothers for a vibrant discussion and your strong and valid opinions on the matter.  It seems to have gotten to the point where we should circumscribe our passions,  keep within due bounds and agree to disagree.   Thanks again everyone!


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## Blake Bowden (Jan 27, 2016)

Thread closed 

Sent from my SM-N920T using My Freemasonry Pro mobile app


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