# I need advice - Wait or start over?



## Kyle Gonzalez (Jan 29, 2019)

Good afternoon everyone,

I need some advice, but first Ill give you a little background.

I joined the lodge around the age of 21 (im 32 now). I started in New York, but then moved to Kansas due to being in the military. After some inquiries from the Masonic lodge there, I decided to take up membership  with their lodge. Shortly after, I was discharged from the military and moved back to Michigan. Once there, I took up membership at a lodge in my hometown. Heres where the problems start.

First, I think the path I was guided down was probably not the best approach. When moving from my home lodge that I was raised in, I signed the paperwork for Kansas, and stopped paying dues in New York. (to be fair, I was young and under the impression that I no longer needed to pay dues since I "transferred"). When going from Kansas to Michigan, under the impression that it was the correct thing to do, I took the same approach. This meant that in the end, I was only paying dues in Michigan.

Shortly after taking up membership, I fell on hard times (no job and homeless). I was unable to afford dues, so I stopped paying. Everything seemed hopeless at the time.

Fast forward several years, I attended and graduated college and took up residency in yet another state. Now that I am in a good financial position, I am able to afford to get back in (i was VERY active in the past. Sat in chairs, conferred degrees, etc). I spoke with a local lodge and was instructed to get right with one of the lodges i've attended. This was in November. So I started with Michigan since that was the last lodge I attended. However, even with the dues card and number on it, i was finally told two months later that they can't find me and to get right with my home lodge in New York.

I finally got in touch with them after multiple attempts, and its looking like I may be waiting several more months before reinstatement would occur (having to wait over the course of multiple communications for voting and whatnot).

*breathe* Ok, so heres where I need the advice. Although its starting to look like it may be possible to get back in, it looks like itll take several more months. I am very eager, and ive already been working on this for several months. I have several friends who'd like to join and I can vouch for, but, you know, I have to get right first. 

Another option was pitched my way. Once I heard it, my heart sank as i've worked so hard to not only accomplish and finish blue lodge, but york rite as well. But this other option, is to start all over here in Kentucky. As a MM and Knight Templar, to hear that I would have to restart as an EA is a heartbreaking option. I cant say that everything about that option is bad, because doing it that way will give me a much needed refresher. But I can get that simply by studying, so..... I'm sure that my fellow brothers can understand the dilemma and how having to go back through the degrees all over again would feel. To add to it, not being able to attend meetings until you obtain something that you've already obtained. To be fair, I'd totally jump on this option if all three degrees were conferred in a day, but that doesnt appear to be the case.

Ok, so for all those that skipped to the bottom to get to the point, I joined the Lodge, fell on hard times, but am now square with my personal affairs and want to rejoin. Do I wait several months to be reinstated as an MM from my home lodge, or should I just suck it up and restart from Day 0? Why?

Any advice would be helpful


----------



## Warrior1256 (Jan 29, 2019)

My advice is to do the right and moral thing as I see it. Get right with BOTH of your former lodges before starting a Masonic journey here in Kentucky. I believe that you will be much happier in your Masonic life if you start with a clean slate behind you. JMHO.


----------



## David612 (Jan 29, 2019)

I’m inclined to agree with the above.
How much is the arrears?


----------



## Kyle Gonzalez (Jan 29, 2019)

David612 said:


> I’m inclined to agree with the above.
> How much is the arrears?


Two years cleared, plus current years dues

Sent from my SM-N950U using My Freemasonry mobile app


----------



## JanneProeliator (Jan 29, 2019)

I'm with brother Warrior on this one.

Seems that you want to do everything right and that's how it should be done. Get square with your old lodges and talk with your brothers from the past lodges and the lodge you want to join. After that you can let all that be history and you can focus on bettering your self eaven further.

Plus taking the degrees to start over would be kinda funny because you already have taken the, and conferred them. There is no experience anymore.


----------



## Kyle Gonzalez (Jan 29, 2019)

JanneProeliator said:


> I'm with brother Warrior on this one.
> 
> Seems that you want to do everything right and that's how it should be done. Get square with your old lodges and talk with your brothers from the past lodges and the lodge you want to join. After that you can let all that be history and you can focus on bettering your self eaven further.
> 
> Plus taking the degrees to start over would be kinda funny because you already have taken the, and conferred them. There is no experience anymore.


I agree wholeheartedly. I mean I love conferring degrees, but if I had to do it again I'd be wondering "why am I doing this?" while kneeling at the alter taking the MM OB for the second time.  But communication with my home lodge has been rough at best, so theres no telling how thatll play out

Sent from my SM-N950U using My Freemasonry mobile app


----------



## Warrior1256 (Jan 29, 2019)

Kyle Gonzalez said:


> But communication with my home lodge has been rough at best, so theres no telling how thatll play out


Just do the best that you can to "square" things with your home lodge. No one can expect more. If you can not get them to communicate with you that is not on you.


----------



## Kyle Gonzalez (Jan 29, 2019)

Warrior1256 said:


> Just do the best that you can to "square" things with your home lodge. No one can expect more. If you can not get them to communicate with you that is not on you.


I see what you're saying, but if they dont communicate I cant get reinstated 

Sent from my SM-N950U using My Freemasonry mobile app


----------



## jermy Bell (Jan 29, 2019)

Ok, I'm confused. I thought once you was raised to the sublime degree of MM. You was always a master mason. How is this possible to start all over as a EA ? or did I miss something somewhere ?


----------



## Brother JC (Jan 29, 2019)

“Regularity is in the eye of the beholder.”

Indeed.
And like any large organization there is red tape. Sometimes far too much.


----------



## jermy Bell (Jan 29, 2019)

So he isn't a regular mason I presume ?


----------



## Glen Cook (Jan 29, 2019)

Actually, I’m not sure I do understand the dilemma. First, it’s hardly a laborious process to take the degrees.  More importantly, upon what do you place the greater value: being a mason, or the masonic rank you perceive

You’ve not told us the grand lodges involved. That may change our view.


----------



## David612 (Jan 30, 2019)

Kyle Gonzalez said:


> Two years cleared, plus current years dues
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using My Freemasonry mobile app


How much in terms of actual dollars does that amount too?


----------



## Kyle Gonzalez (Jan 30, 2019)

David612 said:


> How much in terms of actual dollars does that amount too?


Not sure. I've only received one communication from them, and that's all they said

Sent from my SM-N950U using My Freemasonry mobile app


----------



## Kyle Gonzalez (Jan 30, 2019)

Just do theres no confusion,  I AM a regular mason. I was suspended for NPD (re read the original post). I'm trying to get back in, but I'm having trouble getting in contact w my home lodge. So my options are to wait it out and hope they can help me get reinstated,  or start over with the lodge in the state I'm currently in and retake all my degrees. As far as not understanding what grand lodges are involved,  that's also in the original post.  NY, MI and KS

Sent from my SM-N950U using My Freemasonry mobile app


----------



## Kyle Gonzalez (Jan 30, 2019)

Sorry if it seems like I'm snappy. This is something that I've been wanting to do (get reinstated and start participating in lodge functions again) deep down in my heart, so the fact that this "process" has been taking so long has been really bothering me. 

Sent from my SM-N950U using My Freemasonry mobile app


----------



## Mike Martin (Jan 30, 2019)

As a Freemason and therefore (hopefully) a man of honour who is upstanding and honest you must surely wish to put right what went wrong and I am sure that you will remember the lesson learnt (about not rashly rushing forward) when you entered the Lodge for the very first time.

Nuff said!


----------



## David612 (Jan 30, 2019)

As someone who has taken the degrees I’m surprised that your suprised that a Masonic process is slow.


----------



## Kyle Gonzalez (Jan 30, 2019)

David612 said:


> As someone who has taken the degrees I’m surprised that your suprised that a Masonic process is slow.


I actually got a chuckle from that

Sent from my SM-N950U using My Freemasonry mobile app


----------



## Kyle Gonzalez (Jan 30, 2019)

Mike Martin said:


> As a Freemason and therefore (hopefully) a man of honour who is upstanding and honest you must surely wish to put right what went wrong and I am sure that you will remember the lesson learnt (about not rashly rushing forward) when you entered the Lodge for the very first time.
> 
> Nuff said!


I definitely would like to correct the mistakes. It's not that I rashly rushed through, but rather was misguided and misinformed 

Sent from my SM-N950U using My Freemasonry mobile app


----------



## CLewey44 (Jan 30, 2019)

I don't even think you could retake the degrees to be honest unless you completely lied about any previous affiliations. If all three GLs are in amity, and I think they are, you would have to 'catch-up' on your NPD and just pick up where you left off. I would say be patient and get it right or it'll bite you in the tail eventually anyways. I'm surprised your current secretary or GL Secretary couldn't get in touch with NY and KS to help get this figured out. I've been through the ringer with the demit/re-affiliation process and it takes a long time sometimes. It took my lodge well over a year just to get NY and OK GLs to jive up and I was in good standing. If starting over is somehow an option and they don't mind the fact that you are behind in two separate GLs, then you could go that route and probably be good to go quicker. My concern is when you fill out the affiliation form or petition for that matter, you would be disqualified for being in 'bad standing' in two different GLs. Then if you withheld that information, as I mentioned before, it could bite you in the end.


----------



## Kyle Gonzalez (Jan 30, 2019)

CLewey44 said:


> I don't even think you could retake the degrees to be honest unless you completely lied about any previous affiliations. If all three GLs are in amity, and I think they are, you would have to 'catch-up' on your NPD and just pick up where you left off. I would say be patient and get it right or it'll bite you in the tail eventually anyways. I'm surprised your current secretary or GL Secretary couldn't get in touch with NY and KS to help get this figured out. I've been through the ringer with the demit/re-affiliation process and it takes a long time sometimes. It took my lodge well over a year just to get NY and OK GLs to jive up and I was in good standing. If starting over is somehow an option and they don't mind the fact that you are behind in two separate GLs, then you could go that route and probably be good to go quicker. My concern is when you fill out the affiliation form or petition for that matter, you would be disqualified for being in 'bad standing' in two different GLs. Then if you withheld that information, as I mentioned before, it could bite you in the end.


I'm not withholding any information. One GL lost my information when transitioning to a new system. Even with my dues card, they couldn't validate me (which is strange considering that this was a chartered lodge). So I pretty much dont exist according to that GL. So that one may have settled itself. The other State has been very difficult to get ahold of and correspond with.

I think some people are looking way too deep into my inquiry.  

I'm just as confused as to what to do. All I'm simply saying is that my previous lodges have been difficult to get ahold of, and "starting from scratch" was the option I've been given by the current lodge I'm inquiring with. I'm merely asking what you guys would do in this situation. 

- I am/was a regular mason
- Im not withholding any info. If anything,  I'm not being provided with enough info
- I've been out for 8 years due to financial hardships 
- I'm simply trying to get reinstated
- Yes, I'm being put through the wringer, which is causing more confusion 

Sent from my SM-N950U using My Freemasonry mobile app


----------



## CLewey44 (Jan 30, 2019)

Kyle Gonzalez said:


> I'm not withholding any information. One GL lost my information when transitioning to a new system. Even with my dues card, they couldn't validate me (which is strange considering that this was a chartered lodge). So I pretty much dont exist according to that GL. So that one may have settled itself. The other State has been very difficult to get ahold of and correspond with.
> 
> I think some people are looking way too deep into my inquiry.
> 
> ...


Just FYI, NY's Grand Secretary passed away last year I believe and that is probably one major hiccup there. They were slow for me as well. They have someone else now and are getting caught up. You may could go through NY's GL website (maybe you have already) and solicited information through there.


----------



## Kyle Gonzalez (Jan 30, 2019)

I've done that. I finally got a response yesterday,  now I'm awaiting follow up to figure out next steps

Sent from my SM-N950U using My Freemasonry mobile app


----------



## Mike Martin (Jan 30, 2019)

Kyle Gonzalez said:


> I definitely would like to correct the mistakes. It's not that I rashly rushed through, but rather was misguided and misinformed


The rash bit was about your situation now, there is no rush in Freemasonry


----------



## rpbrown (Jan 30, 2019)

I am not sure if KY petition is worded the same as TX but ours asks if you have ever belonged to or petitioned another lodge in any other jurisdiction (not sure of exact wording). If you were to answer yes then you would be disqualified without good standing certificates, and if you answered no, then you have effectively lied on your petition.


----------



## Kyle Gonzalez (Jan 30, 2019)

rpbrown said:


> I am not sure if KY petition is worded the same as TX but ours asks if you have ever belonged to or petitioned another lodge in any other jurisdiction (not sure of exact wording). If you were to answer yes then you would be disqualified without good standing certificates, and if you answered no, then you have effectively lied on your petition.


I have not yet done anything with a petition. Weve  been simply waiting on responses from the other lodges

Sent from my SM-N950U using My Freemasonry mobile app


----------



## CLewey44 (Jan 30, 2019)

rpbrown said:


> I am not sure if KY petition is worded the same as TX but ours asks if you have ever belonged to or petitioned another lodge in any other jurisdiction (not sure of exact wording). If you were to answer yes then you would be disqualified without good standing certificates, and if you answered no, then you have effectively lied on your petition.


This is what I was thinking and trying to explain earlier. It simply won't happen most likely, as you said, if they ask about past affiliations.


----------



## Kyle Gonzalez (Jan 30, 2019)

I havent yet seen a KY petition. We've been simply looking for solutions that could lead to reinstatement. The idea of "starting over" may have just been something suggested without being entirely sure if that could even happen. I would love to just pay my back dues and be done with all of it, but for that to happen I need to hear back from my home lodge. In all honesty, i'm starting to get discouraged by the whole situation and almost want to just give up altogether


----------



## CLewey44 (Jan 30, 2019)

Kyle Gonzalez said:


> I havent yet seen a KY petition. We've been simply looking for solutions that could lead to reinstatement. The idea of "starting over" may have just been something suggested without being entirely sure if that could even happen. I would love to just pay my back dues and be done with all of it, but for that to happen I need to hear back from my home lodge. In all honesty, i'm starting to get discouraged by the whole situation and almost want to just give up altogether


One thing I've heard of and I think @dfreybur had mentioned it a few months ago, is that some GLs will just make you pay the last two years payments instead of the last 8 or 10 or whatever the person is behind on. NY and/or MO may have that as an option so you don't owe as much.


----------



## Kyle Gonzalez (Jan 30, 2019)

Yea, that's the rule as far as I'm aware (two years paid, plus current year).

Sent from my SM-N950U using My Freemasonry mobile app


----------



## Kyle Gonzalez (Jan 30, 2019)

UPDATE: I was contacted by someone who was at my raising,  and sounds like this is all going to sort out.  Thanks to everyone who shared constructive advice

Sent from my SM-N950U using My Freemasonry mobile app


----------



## Warrior1256 (Jan 30, 2019)

rpbrown said:


> I am not sure if KY petition is worded the same as TX but ours asks if you have ever belonged to or petitioned another lodge in any other jurisdiction


Kentucky does ask this on our petition.


----------



## Bloke (Feb 2, 2019)

rpbrown said:


> I am not sure if KY petition is worded the same as TX but ours asks if you have ever belonged to or petitioned another lodge in any other jurisdiction (not sure of exact wording). If you were to answer yes then you would be disqualified without good standing certificates, and if you answered no, then you have effectively lied on your petition.


Ours asks. 

 I read all the responses. It is a tricky one, but I think you need to be patient and sort our a clearance certificate from your old GL, at least one of them anyway... that's gonna help. The trick will be finding the right advocate - but last year, as a lodge sec, with all the paperwork required, it still took me 4 months to let a joining member be voted on because his GL was so slow replying to our GL..


----------

