# The Worshipful Master and his Wardens



## Blake Bowden (Jul 12, 2009)

I may be wrong, but can these Officers and/or Lodge Members refuse to sit in Lodge with a visitor? If so, can that extend to actual Lodge Members? For example, if your Lodge had a particular "trouble maker", does the WM and/or Wardens have the power to prohibit that individual from coming to Lodge?


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## rhitland (Jul 12, 2009)

My understanding you cannot refuse anyone addmission who is a MM, now anyone can refuse to sit with someone but that means they have to leave not the visitor unless the WM has no backbone. I did not look in the blue book but I think refusing a MM in good standing with the GLoT addmission into lodge is against Masonic law?


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## nick1368 (Jul 12, 2009)

Interesting question...will have to get the law book out and see.


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## TCShelton (Jul 12, 2009)

I've never seen anything in the lawbook that allows a MM to be removed from the lodge, unless he has to be called to order twice.


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## Wingnut (Jul 12, 2009)

I believe its covered by art 383.  If he is a member of the GL of TX he can NOT be denied entrance unless there are masonic charges pending.  If from outside the GL of TX the WM has more leeway.


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## Wingnut (Jul 12, 2009)

UPDATE:  here is the full wording...

  Art. 383. (419).  Visitors Excluded:   When . A visitor, who is not a member in good standing of a Lodge working under the  jurisdiction  of  the  Grand  Lodge  of  Texas,  may  be  excluded  on  the  objection  of  a  member  of  the Lodge at the discretion of the Worshipful  Master.  When three  members make the objection, such  visitor must be excluded.

  Like  objection may  be made  to  a member  of a  Lodge working under  the  jurisdiction of  the  Grand  Lodge of Texas only if such member is under charges preferred against him.


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## rhitland (Jul 12, 2009)

That I feel will be put to the test in the near future and be the good guys loop hole.


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## nick1368 (Jul 12, 2009)

Thanks Wingnut...I looked through the law book pretty quick and didnt see anything.  Of course you just about have to go to night school to understand how to look anything up in that thing....lol


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## Wingnut (Jul 13, 2009)

This came up recently when we had the racism issue that's why I knew it off hand.    Speaking of that I'm trying to find out a definitive answer to voting for proficiencies.  Some say that anyone supporting the GL of TX can vote, but my feeling is that only members of that lodge can vote on a proficiency since its a lodge matter (kinda like officer elections).  That may be my project today is to look through for that issue...


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## Bill Lins (Jul 13, 2009)

Wingnut said:


> Speaking of that I'm trying to find out a definitive answer to voting for proficiencies.  Some say that anyone supporting the GL of TX can vote, but my feeling is that only members of that lodge can vote on a proficiency since its a lodge matter (kinda like officer elections).



Any Texas Master Mason may vote on a petition for the Degrees or a petition for advancement ONLY. (Art. 417)

ONLY members of the Lodge may vote on proficiencies (Art. 433) and any other matters to be balloted upon. (Art's. 355, 369, 388, 392, 417, & 625).

Hope this helps.


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## owls84 (Jul 14, 2009)

rhitland said:


> That I feel will be put to the test in the near future and be the good guys loop hole.



I have not responded to this because I wanted to make sure I was reading it properly so I have came back several times. Where is the loop hole? The way I read the law is the only way to deny someone access to a lodgeroom is if they have charges pending. Where do the good guys win?


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## rhitland (Jul 14, 2009)

Because when I come to visit and I bring my friend you cannot refuse him the right to sit in Lodge and I know alot of those old trouble makers will not sit in Lodge with my Friend for one reason or another and if this is how we git rid off them then so be it or so mote it be.


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## owls84 (Jul 14, 2009)

Ah ha. I was looking on the flip side. How to keep the trouple makers out. I like your thinking Bro. I just needed to step back and look at the bigger picture.


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## 4thgenPM (Jul 14, 2009)

Wingnut said:


> This came up recently when we had the racism issue that's why I knew it off hand.    Speaking of that I'm trying to find out a definitive answer to voting for proficiencies.  Some say that anyone supporting the GL of TX can vote, but my feeling is that only members of that lodge can vote on a proficiency since its a lodge matter (kinda like officer elections).  That may be my project today is to look through for that issue...



I can answer this one for you...proficiencies are at the sole discretion of the Lodge the Brother belongs to.  As such, they can only be voted upon by members of that Lodge.  The only time a Texas Mason can vote in a Lodge he does not belong to is on a petition for the degrees.


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## 4thgenPM (Jul 14, 2009)

I actually faced this as WM when one of my PMs made comments about not allowing a PM from a neighboring Lodge to attend our meetings.

The WM has the responsibility of ensuring the peace and harmony of his Lodge within the confines of the Law.  If he faces a situation where the inclusion of a visitor would disrupt that and cause a serious rift in his Lodge he needs to deal with the situation in the manner that he feels is best for his Lodge.  The secondary concern is the comfort level of the visiting Brother.

Please note that I'm not advocating for the exclusion of any qualified Mason from any Masonic meeting, but I do believe there are times when a Brother's attendance at a meeting (for a multitude of reasons) could cause lasting damage to the Lodge.  If this is the case, those concerns need to be expressed by the WM privately and the Brother given the opportunity to help preserve the peace and harmony of the Craft.  

I also believe that it is devolvent upon all of us to respect any other Brother that is qualified to attend our Lodges and leave all personal differences at the door...and these differences are what usually causes the rifts inside the Lodge room.  In my individual situation, I explained to my PM (who was also in an elected officer position) that I would allow the Brother to attend any and all of our meetings and events during my year.  He either needed to accept that and be civil or he could choose to not attend and I would have someone pro-tem his office.  He chose not to attend and the peace and harmony of my Lodge was maintained.


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## Wingnut (Jul 14, 2009)

That was my thinking just needed to find/verify it.  Reason it came up... the same people that wanted to keep a GL of TX mason out of the lodge room based only on race commented they would go and vote against his proficiency to keep him from advancing any further.

Personally Id rather vote to remove the weight and responsibility of having a dues card from these 'masons'...


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## david918 (Jul 14, 2009)

Wingnut said:


> That was my thinking just needed to find/verify it.  Reason it came up... the same people that wanted to keep a GL of TX mason out of the lodge room based only on race commented they would go and vote against his proficiency to keep him from advancing any further.
> 
> Personally Id rather vote to remove the weight and responsibility of having a dues card from these 'masons'...




Agree 100%


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## Nate Riley (Jul 14, 2009)

This may not speak to this case, but I heard of a situation where a WM and some of the brethern, knew that a couple of vistors were coming to the lodge with bad motives (maybe black balls, but not sure).  So, the WM had the visting and would be trouble making brothers examined thoroughly before entering, which took a considerable period of time. It may have been a BS story, but sounded interesting at the time.


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## rhitland (Jul 15, 2009)

GL law say that a TX Brother can get in with a dues card and DL although examantion may take place is unnecsary and redundent in the end they could not be keep out with a valid dues cards, we say it in all our obligations "OR lawful information". I could see you having to bring back some big wigs to get into some of these backwood Lodges if you fail examanation though.


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## Bill Lins (Jul 15, 2009)

Nate Riley said:


> This may not speak to this case, but I heard of a situation where a WM and some of the brethern, knew that a couple of vistors were coming to the lodge with bad motives (maybe black balls, but not sure).  So, the WM had the visting and would be trouble making brothers examined thoroughly before entering, which took a considerable period of time. It may have been a BS story, but sounded interesting at the time.



That's great!


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## Bill Lins (Jul 15, 2009)

4thgenPM said:


> The only time a Texas Mason can vote in a Lodge he does not belong to is on a petition for the degrees.



Not correct, sir- see Art. 417.


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## Blake Bowden (Jul 15, 2009)

rhitland said:


> GL law say that a TX Brother can get in with a dues card and DL although examantion may take place is unnecsary and redundent



I don't agree with that law. It's easy as hell to fake a dues card, but it's much harder to pass an examination.


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## Bill Lins (Jul 15, 2009)

rhitland said:


> GL law say that a TX Brother can get in with a dues card and DL



Remember- that is at the option of the WM.


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## owls84 (Jul 15, 2009)

How can that be at the liberty of the WM? The obligation says OR lawful ... so that leads me to believe if he has a dues card and ID then by gosh we must let him in. And with the Articles listed above we must. I would say that if a Brother is not let in and he is in posession of the proper identifications then he is in. 

I know also what the Tyler says contradicts this. He says AND. So does the Master's Degree. 

Am I wrong?


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## Wingnut (Jul 15, 2009)

Bill_Lins77488 said:


> Remember- that is at the option of the WM.



_
Art. 380. (416). Good Standing. Upon notification to the Worshipful Master, and at his discretion, a member of a Lodge under the jurisdiction of this Grand Lodge may visit any Texas Masonic Lodge working under this jurisdiction without the avouchment and or examination process providing that he is in good standing and presents a receipt from his Lodge showing that his dues are current at the time of said visitation along with a photo identification; except in cases provided for in Art. 382. Sojourning Masons from other jurisdictions must possess a current dues card and shall be vouched for or examined in accordance with Art. 381. (Revised 1999)_


Just my reading and understanding of course but: This, taken with Art 383 means that a GL of TX Mason can visit any lodge within the GL of TX and his entrance can not be denied.  However, the WM can request an examination above that of him showing his dues card and photo ID.  Even then, if 383 is understood correctly a member of the GL of TX can ONLY be denied entry into any TX LODGE if 

_Art. 383. (419). Visitors Excluded: When. A visitor, who is not a member in good standing of a Lodge working under the jurisdiction of the Grand Lodge of Texas, may be excluded on the objection of a member of the Lodge at the discretion of the Worshipful Master. When three members make the objection, such visitor must be excluded.

Like objection may be made to a member of a Lodge working under the jurisdiction of the Grand Lodge of Texas only if such member is under charges preferred against him._


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## Nate Riley (Jul 15, 2009)

blake said:


> I don't agree with that law. It's easy as hell to fake a dues card, but it's much harder to pass an examination.



Since I brought the issue examination up and was then informed of the dues card issue, I went back to my instructor who is a past master.  He said that is occurred when he was Jr. or Sr. Warden, so it was long before the 1999 revision I guess. He couldn't remember exactly what it was related to, but it came up in a recent conversation about voting and one brother who invited some vistors to vote with him.  

Blake, he agrees with you that simply presenting the dues card and ID is junk.  He thinks you should have to "scratch in" if there is any question.  But he also adds that a suspended or expelled (who was willing to violate the test oath) could "scratch in", if you didn't make him show his dues card.

It seems to me that the new law (1999) regarding the dues card and id, which is more convenient and less time consuming is contradictory to the traditional (ancient) method of proving oneself and authentic mason.


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## rhitland (Jul 15, 2009)

blake said:


> I don't agree with that law. It's easy as hell to fake a dues card, but it's much harder to pass an examination.




Someone would have to go through some trouble to get an embossing emblem for a lodge but it could be done. I always felt that if someone is that motivated they will learn the work off the internret also b/c that is just as easy to get. Do not get me wrong I love the examination process but the law is the law and it says dues card gets you in. I think this is one of those GL laws though that only is enforced when a multi-titled Mason complains.


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## Bill Lins (Jul 15, 2009)

rhitland said:


> Do not get me wrong I love the examination process but the law is the law and it says dues card gets you in.



Not quite. Art. 380 says the dues card & photo ID gets you in IF it's OK with the WM- otherwise, you get the examination.


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## Bill Lins (Jul 15, 2009)

owls84 said:


> How can that be at the liberty of the WM? The obligation says OR lawful ...



See Art. 381 to learn what constitutes "lawful information".


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## Wingnut (Jul 16, 2009)

Is the objective of the examination to get a Visiting Brother INTO the Lodge or to KEEP a Visiting Brother Out?  The answer to that question says a lot about a lodge...

Exercise 3 of the SW book of the LIFE program states:  _"---Assure him that he has nothing to be worried or embarrassed about, and that is is the committee's intent to enable him to sit with them in lodge."  _


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## rhitland (Jul 16, 2009)

Bill_Lins77488 said:


> Not quite. Art. 380 says the dues card & photo ID gets you in IF it's OK with the WM- otherwise, you get the examination.



I am defintley misinterperting this law then because it clearly says in art 380 that a reciept is good enough, now it also says the WM has discrestion whiether he lets you in or not but the art says if you have dues card you can get in without an avouchment or exam. 

I have no dought you are correct Brother Linns as I know experience is the real teacher. This does make this law contradict itslef and make it meaningless. Why do they not word the art like "No one enters a Lodge untill the WM is satisfied" I mean this is what the laws says first then goes on on and about dues card and avouchments for no reason. 

Let me ask if the WM refuses a Mason of the GLoT in good standing addmission does he have to have a reason or could it be just b/c he does not like you?


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## Wingnut (Jul 16, 2009)

A Texas Lodge may not refuse entry to a member of the Grand Lodge of Texas that is in Good Standing (current dues card) and does NOT have charges pending against him. 

This came up for reasons of race and the GM told the DDGM to read article 383 and to make it very clear that refusing a GLoT Masons entry for any reason other than him having charges pending would be a violation of Masonic Law and could result in removal of the charter.


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## rhitland (Jul 16, 2009)

Wingnut said:


> A Texas Lodge may not refuse entry to a member of the Grand Lodge of Texas that is in Good Standing (current dues card) and does NOT have charges pending against him.
> 
> This came up for reasons of race and the GM told the DDGM to read article 383 and to make it very clear that refusing a GLoT Masons entry for any reason other than him having charges pending would be a violation of Masonic Law and could result in removal of the charter.



This is the way I interpet the law but what is the addition about the WMs discretion? What does he have discretion about?


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## Bill Lins (Jul 17, 2009)

rhitland said:


> This is the way I interpet the law but what is the addition about the WMs discretion? What does he have discretion about?



He has the right to decide if a photo ID & dues card will be sufficient for entrance into the Lodge or if an examination will be required.


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## Bill Lins (Jul 17, 2009)

rhitland said:


> the art says if you have dues card you can get in without an avouchment or exam.



At the option of the WM. He has the right to decide if a dues card & photo ID will be good enough or if an exam will need to be given.



rhitland said:


> Let me ask if the WM refuses a Mason of the GLoT in good standing addmission does he have to have a reason or could it be just b/c he does not like you?



If a Texas Mason in good standing & not laboring under charges is refused admission, the WM better have a very good reason why. As stated above, the WM may require avouchment or an examination, but as long as the visiting Brother agrees to such & passes, he MUST be admitted.


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## rhitland (Jul 17, 2009)

Bill_Lins77488 said:


> He has the right to decide if a photo ID & dues card will be sufficient for entrance into the Lodge or if an examination will be required.




What would be a sceniro a WM would not be satisfied with dues card and photo ID? I mean barring it is not a total fake which is a whole other question for another time. GL law saying dues card is good basicaly said there is no need to remember the tilers oath or prepare for an exam at all from a lodge so what would constitute an exam as well as dues card and id? 

Brother Bill I hope I am not leaning on you to hard for your wisdom, the proper understanding of our law is very important to me and this one is just not adding up to me but as usual I bet it is because I am overlooking something and need a second set of eyes to show me to the light.


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## rhitland (Jul 17, 2009)

Well nix my last post you answered in your last post. Thanks Brother Bill you are a enrichment to the craft.


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## Bill Lins (Jul 17, 2009)

rhitland said:


> What would be a sceniro a WM would not be satisfied with dues card and photo ID? I mean barring it is not a total fake which is a whole other question for another time. GL law saying dues card is good basicaly said there is no need to remember the tilers oath or prepare for an exam at all from a lodge so what would constitute an exam as well as dues card and id?



Bro. Rhit- let's look at this from another angle. Before Art. 380 was revised in 1999, the WM did not have the option of allowing a Brother into Lodge with just his dues card & photo ID. Avouchment or examination was REQUIRED. The law was modified to make it EASIER for a visiting Brother to attend Lodge, not the other way around.

BTW, thanks for the kind words- I'll try to be worthy of them!


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## owls84 (Jul 17, 2009)

Good Topic and Explination Thank You Both Bro. Rhit and Bro. Bill


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## rhitland (Jul 17, 2009)

Bill_Lins77488 said:


> Bro. Rhit- let's look at this from another angle. Before Art. 380 was revised in 1999, the WM did not have the option of allowing a Brother into Lodge with just his dues card & photo ID. Avouchment or examination was REQUIRED. The law was modified to make it EASIER for a visiting Brother to attend Lodge, not the other way around.
> 
> BTW, thanks for the kind words- I'll try to be worthy of them!



I see said the blind man! I was looking at that from a negative stand point thank you for calling me on that Brother Bill I see why now b/c change is hard and if they took that option away from the WM then the law probably would have never been voted in and it would still be exam and dues card which frankly I am a fan of, anybody that has examined me or I them have ended up becoming good buddies and I always remember their names after it.


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