# Is Freemasonry Dead or Alive



## Blake Bowden (May 29, 2009)

Where do you see Freemasonry in 5-10 years?


----------



## cambridgemason (May 29, 2009)

seems to me at least that here in the NE. area we seem to be reverting almost back to where Freemasonry was in the prior 1860 era.  What I mean is that I see a large group of diverst men becoming masons today and getting involved and many wanting knowledge and wanting to join other Masonic bodies in numbers.  I also see lodges still merging together and see YR bodies still hurting for numbers to work the degrees. We seem to be reverting to a time where there were less Masonic Lodges and other Masonic Bodies but that membership is on the upswing.  Maybe history does repeat itself in a way, maybe in 5 to 10 years we may see a boom in Freemasonry paralleling itself to that of the early 1860 where at least here in the NE area a Lodge could bring in 25 to 50 men a year and 5 to 10 new lodges forming a year.  It would be nice to see this event take place all over the US.  What I see is less number of Masonic Lodges and Masonic Bodies but a greater number of members coming into the lodges, a greater number of younger members and a greater number of members staying and getting involved.


----------



## Scotty32 (May 29, 2009)

Wonder if there will be a boom of petitions after 'The Solomon Key' releases.
Was there a jump after _National Treasure_?


----------



## Robert Marshall (Jun 2, 2009)

Scotty32Âº said:


> Wonder if there will be a boom of petitions after 'The Solomon Key' releases.
> Was there a jump after _National Treasure_?



That's a pretty interesting question. I hadn't considered it.


----------



## RJS (Jun 3, 2009)

I wonder if it will hurt masonry.  I wonder if we are going to have to do a lot of "No, No, that is not what masonry is about."


----------



## A7V (Jun 8, 2009)

I personally believe a smaller more tight knit Freemasonry is needed.   I am not saying we go "underground" but we need more people who are involved in the "esoteric" aspects and less in the social club aspect.   

Things such as astrology, tarot, qabbalah, and alchemy are all major parts of Freemasonry and they are all but gone from the lodge, they are still in the degree work but how many Brethren can tell you that?  

I think there will be more people who are interested in these aspects joining and they won't find what they are looking for, even though in my opinion it should be there and it should be the place to go to find these things,  hopefully though as more join, we can get back to the esoteric work that was originally intended, by the founders such as Brother Ashmole.


----------



## JEbeling (Jun 8, 2009)

Wrong... ! have been listening to the "Committee on Change" .. ! what we need is more Masons.. !


----------



## A7V (Jun 8, 2009)

JEbeling said:


> Wrong... ! have been listening to the "Committee on Change" .. ! what we need is more Masons.. !



More is not always better!  This draw down is a good thing, we can get back to our "Work" and not be so focused on superfluous activities that Masonry was drawn into in the post war years.   

Things like golf tournaments and dinners and so forth are nice but IMHO these social club meet and greet activities have taken over, so much so that most members believe this is what Masonry is all about.    

In our esoteric work is truly what Masonry is all about, it is believed that the Knowledge of God, is contained in the symbolism of our degree work,  yet as I say most members are either ignorant of this or choose to ignore it.   

It is going to take a smaller Masonry with more esoterically knowledgeable members to work out this knowledge.   Why can't you see this as a good thing?   

I believe this is the true purpose of our fraternal society, to learn, study and decipher this knowledge that is in plain sight, yet unknown.


----------



## JEbeling (Jun 8, 2009)

Wrong.. ! the esoteric work is only a small part of Masonary.. ! when we make it the corner stone of masonary we will end up with a bunch of Lodges ordained by the "Committee on Change" and forget the Tennents of freemasonary.. ! 

for hundred of years masonary trived without all of this focus on "The Work" and a few Past Grand Masters forgot about masonary and wanted to turn this into one big "Club" for all the Committee on work members.. ! just so they wouldn't have to deal with the unwashed masses.. ! and could sit around and impress each other about how much they can say from memory.. ! they forgot about helping brother master masons, their widows or the children.. ! they forgot about respect among master masons because if he couldn't say all his work perfect in some way he was defective.. ! not worthy to be a member of the flock.. ! 

its going to take More Masons.. and less perfect esoteric judgemental members.. !


----------



## A7V (Jun 8, 2009)

JEbeling said:


> Wrong.. ! the esoteric work is only a small part of Masonary.. ! when we make it the corner stone of masonary we will end up with a bunch of Lodges ordained by the "Committee on Change" and forget the Tennents of freemasonary.. !
> 
> for hundred of years masonary trived without all of this focus on "The Work" and a few Past Grand Masters forgot about masonary and wanted to turn this into one big "Club" for all the Committee on work members.. ! just so they wouldn't have to deal with the unwashed masses.. ! and could sit around and impress each other about how much they can say from memory.. ! they forgot about helping brother master masons, their widows or the children.. ! they forgot about respect among master masons because if he couldn't say all his work perfect in some way he was defective.. ! not worthy to be a member of the flock.. !
> 
> its going to take More Masons.. and less perfect esoteric judgemental members.. !



Sorry,  I forgot that in Texas the terms Work and Esoteric =  Repetition. 

You have me all wrong.   Esoteric does not mean just being able to say things back and be judged on it.   

It involves the hidden knowledge in the degrees, learning the Qabbalah that is in symbolism, learning about how much astronomy is in our degree work.    Learn the alchemical principles that are in the degree work.

I could care less if you can repeat it back to me, that is not what I mean when I say the "Work" or "Esoteric",  I am speaking of the Knowledge of God!   The Gnosticism that is in our degree work is precious and it has been forgotten. 

Elias Ashmole understood this when he was helping to form the first Grand Lodge, and even Albert Pike knew this but he thought it better focused on in the Scottish Rite.

I don't get why in Texas they call the repetition esoteric work.   I think it will always confuse me.   They have an esoteric class here in San Antonio, and I expected them to be learning about the symbolism and things of that nature, but from what I understand it is just memorization.


----------



## TCShelton (Jun 8, 2009)

A7V said:


> You have me all wrong.   Esoteric does not mean just being able to say things back and be judged on it.



You are exactly right.  Once we start getting back into REAL esoterica, we won't have as much of a problem with member retention...


----------



## LRG (Jun 8, 2009)

If your bright enough -+ to dwell in the alice crowley stuff; then your probably already doing it.
I do not look at Free Masonry as hocus pocus, hidden stars, or secret conversations with the Almighty, but more of Brotherhood and charity towards all.


----------



## A7V (Jun 8, 2009)

LRG said:


> If your bright enough -+ to dwell in the alice crowley stuff; then your probably already doing it.
> I do not look at Free Masonry as hocus pocus, hidden stars, or secret conversations with the Almighty, but more of Brotherhood and charity towards all.



I am sorry but Aleister Crowley has nothing to do with Freemasonry,  he was a member of the Golden Dawn and formed his own society known as Thelema.

I am also sorry that you do not look at Freemasonry as "hocus pocus, hidden stars, or secret conversations with the Almight, but that is exactly what is in the degree work you practice.

Freemasonry is Brotherhood and Charity, but please be open to the fact that it may not have been intended in the way you think of it.

I would encourage you to learn more about the history of Freemasonry, and learn that what you call "hocus pocus" is a very integral part of your fraternal organization.


----------



## LRG (Jun 8, 2009)

I understand quite a-bit. I also understand to not, read in between lines.
Trying to figure out the galaxy, when your missing all the beauties which lie in front.


----------



## cambridgemason (Jun 9, 2009)

let us leave Crowley out of it, he was a sick little puppy.  Many factors contribute to today's Freemasonry.  The best way is to balance out these different activities to all to enjoy.  This is extremely difficult, but there are men that like ritual, the hidden meanings behind the symbols, history, golf, and club like atmosphere. We have also gotten away from what we did so best in the past, is helping out a brother, his widow and orphans.  Remember our early lodge were community lodges, were 95% of the members lived in town or just across into the next. Today unless you are from a small town community I know of men that come 40 miles from home to attend, and with mergers, lodges move.  It was easier years ago where one member would see half a dozen of his brethren in a day or week going around town.  We are no longer that close nit group, we have emerged into a newer Fraternity. Today a balance is needed to TRY to please everyone, this is hard.  It can be done, we can not always put the blame on our lodges or GL;s even though I think our GL's can do more for their lodges.  I also in some ways blame the candidate, if there is something that he does not understand or finds missing why does he not speak up, why just leave.  Human nature, sometimes for some men it is easier just to give up and walk away.  I know been there, done that, not for my fathers memory I would have dropped out of this great Fraternity of ours.  But I stayed and today a PM of that Lodge and now speak up on anything that I see needs change. Maybe some of our lodges need to change, which some are, some are getting into books clubs, and extra instruction classes and the esoteric side of Freemasonry. The virtual i fully enjoy and for me explains Freemasonry is Brotherly love, unites men of every county, sect and opinion.  If a man that joins a club and does not get what he thinks he needs out of it then say something, open your mouth, what better place then in Freemasonry where everyone is entitled to his own opinion. There is always room for more knowledge and work to be done.


----------



## rhitland (Jun 10, 2009)

A7V said:


> Freemasonry is Brotherhood and Charity, but please be open to the fact that it may not have been intended in the way you think of it.



FreeMasonry was built with the intentions that it would be diffrent for us all. Masons who are figuring out for themselves what Masonry is to them and then they get so excited at what they have found that it becomes very hard to keep their emotions within due bounds but if we all pull out our compasses and allow each other to find Masonry for themselves with quality leadership, conversations and teachings from those who have then the flower of Masonry will bloom again. Be open to each other and realize you are right for you but wrong for me that is why God made you, you and me, me the rest we need just let be.


----------



## JEbeling (Jun 10, 2009)

Whoa.. ! let me see if I understand you..? 

We should figure out ourselves what Masonary is.. ! 

From what I understand about Masonary the symbols are used to make sure we understand what the meaning of each one.. ? I understand it clear to me what morality, brotherly love, and the tennents of freemasonary have been thru the years.. ! this isn't something new that someone turned a page last week and said " so thats what it means " ...? they haven't changed..? 

keep emotions in due bounds.. ! does that mean we should except anyone's changes and point of view because we don't want to damage the feelings..? 

didn't understand ..?


----------



## A7V (Jun 10, 2009)

JEbeling said:


> Whoa.. ! let me see if I understand you..?
> 
> We should figure out ourselves what Masonary is.. !
> 
> ...



The symbols in Masonry are like an onion, they have layers.  IMHO the outer layers are there and are what you are told in the degree, but you can choose to go deeper and find the other meanings as you peel back the layers.   

He is right, it is up to each man whether they are happy at the outer layer of the onion or if they want to peel back the layers and go deeper into the onion.


----------



## TCShelton (Jun 10, 2009)

LRG said:


> I understand quite a-bit. I also understand to not, read in between lines.
> Trying to figure out the galaxy, when your missing all the beauties which lie in front.



If that is what you understand, then do that.  Some of us "understand" a bit differently.  One can easily see the beauties that lie in front, while also contemplating the meanings beyond.  Such is the beauty of life.  What Rhit is trying to say is that Masonry may be one thing to you, and something else to another.  Masonry to me is definitely not limited to charity and brotherly love.  If I thought that, then there are another dozen organizations with that focus.  Mysticism is what seperates us from them.  Nobody says you have to believe what I do, but you can't tell someone else what they have to believe.  This is one of the first lessons taught in Masonry, and is the reason that men of all faiths and beliefs are alowed in the same lodge.  To suggest otherwise is pretty close-minded.


----------



## TCShelton (Jun 10, 2009)

As for Aleister Crowley, like it or not, he WAS a Freemason, as were all of the founding members of the Golden Dawn.

So were other great mystical writers such as A.E. Waite, and our very own Jewell Lightfoot.


----------



## LRG (Jun 10, 2009)

What do you expect to get out of FreeMasonry and what have you obtained?

To find yourself is where the beauty lies. If one finds this mystical beauty within, then others may look upon the same as closed minded.


----------



## david918 (Jun 10, 2009)

Here is a link about  Crowley

http://freemasonry.bcy.ca/texts/AleisterCrowley.html

It closes with this statement"The United Grand Lodge of England does not recognize Crowley as a member of the Craft. All his affiliations were with irregular bodies, and so they deny him recognition"


----------



## LRG (Jun 10, 2009)

Thank you Brother Broman.
some say he / not. 
Apologize for using his name as a hocus pocus example.


----------



## TCShelton (Jun 10, 2009)

LRG said:


> To find yourself is where the beauty lies. If one finds this mystical beauty within, then others may look upon the same as closed minded.



That is a pretty sad misinterpretation of what I said.


----------



## LRG (Jun 10, 2009)

two-fold


----------



## rhitland (Jun 10, 2009)

JEbeling said:


> Whoa.. ! let me see if I understand you..?
> 
> We should figure out ourselves what Masonary is.. !
> 
> ...



I am saying, Masonry is not there to figure out, it helps us as individuals figure ourselves out and that is diffrent for each of us. Sure the ultimate goal of Masonry is to make good men better but how that happens is diffrent for us all and in turn makes Masonry diffrent to us all. 

Sure a symbol has one meaning but when I look at the square and comapsses the same memories and experiences that lead me to square my actions are diffrent than yours everything on the surface of Masonry stays the same and is very easily memorized or learned but to actualy apply them is the challenge that makes Masonry diffrent for every man and woman. It makes Masonry christian to some and to some they see only kabalism or judaism, making us all right and wrong at the same time. A symbol sparks feeling that cannot be written or describe only symbolized and as humans we do the best we can to put OUR feelings into words but in the end they are OURS only. 

Feelings have nothing to do with it, this has to do with the basic right of doing and feeling as we please. If someone is wrong I say bulldoze their feelings if need be and bring them to justice but the intepertation of Masonry has no right or wrong so to say Masonry is all esoteric or all Brotherly Love or Charity is to be right and wrong at the same time.


----------



## TCShelton (Jun 10, 2009)

rhitland said:


> Feelings have nothing to do with it, this has to do with the basic right of doing and feeling as we please. If someone is wrong I say bulldoze their feelings if need be and bring them to justice but the intepertation of Masonry has no right or wrong so to say Masonry is all esoteric or all Brotherly Love or Charity is to be right and wrong at the same time.



Exactly.


----------



## rhitland (Jun 10, 2009)

I can say one thing for certain we did answer the question if Masonry was dead or alive b/c it is certianly alive in all of us in one way or another. lol


----------



## LRG (Jun 11, 2009)

Perfect Bro Rhitland


----------



## owls84 (Jun 12, 2009)

Brother Rhit hit the nail on the head. 

The other night I did a presentation on how the 3 degrees could be symbolic of the levels of consciences, as we master each one we become the FC and then the Master. Basically saying that I may have a Master’s dues card but I am but merely a FC mentally in my opinion and some members could relate while others just didn't get it. It is not to say those members are wrong it just means something else to them. When I teach what I learn I am sure to tell them that this is just what I think, and that their symbolism could mean something totally something else. All I am trying to do is to get the brethren to look deeper at what we are taught and find their own "light" if that makes sense.


----------

