# PHA,how are we so different



## choppersteve03 (Apr 21, 2011)

i am wet behind the ears, so can someone tell me why PHA and AF&AM cant seem to roll together? why are there two organizations and not just one for all of us? i mean where all brothers,right? i almost joined a PHA lodge when i was stationed in germany, but i let people talk me out of it because it was the black masons. i was young back then and chose to listen to them, and it is too bad because i missed out on a lot of cool stuff that they did. but hey things happen for a reason, i guess thats why i started my journey later than most.


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## Blake Bowden (Apr 21, 2011)

There are many helpful threads on this matter on the forum. FYI PHA isn't just for "black Masons", in matter of fact one of our founding members who happens to be white recently demitted from the GLofTX and joined Prince Hall. He couldn't be happier. 

In Texas we're now in the process of working on visitation with our Prince Hall Brethren and if all goes well it should come up at our next annual communication. But yeah, it's a confusing issue..lol.


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## Bro.BruceBenjamin (Apr 21, 2011)

choppersteve03 said:


> i am wet behind the ears, so can someone tell me why PHA and AF&AM cant seem to roll together? why are there two organizations and not just one for all of us?.



I am confused by your question. Are you asking why can't PHA and the clandestine AF&AM get along? Are you asking why can't PHA and Mainstream AF&AM get along?  There are a few groups with the name AF&AM please give me some more information so I can accurately answer your question. On a side note the Most Worshipful Grand Lodge of South Carolina is AFM.


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## choppersteve03 (Apr 21, 2011)

iam sorry, i was talking about mainstream and PHA. i am just new and am confused, brother bruce i read the blog about bogus masons and it helped me to grasp it a bit.


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## Bro.BruceBenjamin (Apr 21, 2011)

Recognition has to be something that both sides want and agree to. Most of the states are on board for mutual recognition and few for visitation. However there are some hold out states with bigots on both sides that slow the process. Ignorance doesn't better the craft or society it only begets ignorance. That being said I have been studying the document that Texas Mainstream and PHA used to close the gap on their differences in hopes of fostering a similar agreement in the jurisdiction of South Carolina. On a side note I voted for an edict to speed up talks, but the three other square lodges voted against thus killing the edict. All craft lodges or at least a majority in some jurisdictions must agree to share territory and recognize each other. "We are not so different just parallel." 

I hope this answers your question.


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## choppersteve03 (Apr 21, 2011)

thank you brother bruce, yes it did help to awnser my question. like i have seen time and time again, you have been a valuble source of info, you are a very knowlegable brother. thank you.


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## Michael Hatley (Apr 23, 2011)

choppersteve03 said:


> i am wet behind the ears, so can someone tell me why PHA and AF&AM cant seem to roll together? why are there two organizations and not just one for all of us? i mean where all brothers,right?



I'm brand new to masonry too (EA), so I'll bide my time for just a little longer....but this is precisely how I feel.  

I'd see this changed.  I'm ashamed of the division, to be direct about it - and I've got many black friends who if they decide to rock on within my lodge one day I would go to bat for them.  And I'd darned sure visit PH lodges if I was able. 

I'll try not to ramble about it, but I have strong views on the issue, and intend to do my part when I can.  I think any division would really hinder the ability to bring in good men in the next generations, as they will find it inexplicable.  And masonry would simply be more fun and enjoyable without artificial barriers.  Just my opinions.

In the Army especially I had many black men that I looked up to, that helped me, and that I deeply respected and still do.  In fact all my best NCOs were black, and it was a tough outfit I was in.   I served in one of the old Buffalo Soldier units actually, while it was at Ft. Hood.  It just comes down to that, for me.  The only snag in a beautiful system of morality, from what I see so far.


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## jwhoff (Apr 23, 2011)

Michael Hatley said:


> I'm brand new to masonry too (EA), so I'll bide my time for just a little longer....but this is precisely how I feel.
> 
> I'd see this changed.  I'm ashamed of the division, to be direct about it - and I've got many black friends who if they decide to rock on within my lodge one day I would go to bat for them.  And I'd darned sure visit PH lodges if I was able.
> 
> ...


 
There is always a chance I'll live long enough to see the younger generation rule the world.  I certainly hope so.


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## kosei (Apr 26, 2011)

i know the brother personally in which you speak of. as a matter of fact i was with him on saturday. real cool dude. if we can resolve this in Texas it will be great for the craft. Pslams 133





Blake Bowden said:


> There are many helpful threads on this matter on the forum. FYI PHA isn't just for "black Masons", in matter of fact one of our founding members who happens to be white recently demitted from the GLofTX and joined Prince Hall. He couldn't be happier.
> 
> In Texas we're now in the process of working on visitation with our Prince Hall Brethren and if all goes well it should come up at our next annual communication. But yeah, it's a confusing issue..lol.


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## tom268 (Apr 26, 2011)

Maybe a note to mention, that the black GL - not-black GL is only a matter in the USA. The rest of the world has no issue in that division.


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## jwhoff (Apr 27, 2011)

tom268 said:


> Maybe a note to mention, that the black GL - not-black GL is only a matter in the USA. The rest of the world has no issue in that division.


 
Precisely.  This curse has drained our nation of energy and spark.  Hopefully is is overcome soon.


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## Beathard (Apr 28, 2011)

Anybody know if a resolution hs been submitted?


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## Brent Heilman (Apr 28, 2011)

If Texas passes a resolution of this nature and starts allowing visitation I hope Oklahoma will do what it does best and follow the lead of Texas. I have a friend that I served with in the Navy who is a Prince Hall Mason. I just found out the other day when he changed his Facebook profile pic to one of him wearing his officer jewel. I would love to have the chance to go visit him and sit in Lodge with him sometime.


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## brandon.prewitt (Apr 28, 2011)

I had an opportunity to join 15 years ago, but the guy made Mason's sound like the KLAN and was proud of it, and i wanted no part of any racist organizations, still don't.  I'm glad to see that was just one lone idiot and not the lot of you.


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## dwntwnsb (Apr 28, 2011)

choppersteve03 said:
			
		

> i am wet behind the ears, so can someone tell me why PHA and AF&AM cant seem to roll together? why are there two organizations and not just one for all of us? i mean where all brothers,right? i almost joined a PHA lodge when i was stationed in germany, but i let people talk me out of it because it was the black masons. i was young back then and chose to listen to them, and it is too bad because i missed out on a lot of cool stuff that they did. but hey things happen for a reason, i guess thats why i started my journey later than most.



I do not believe the issue is black and white anymore as much as it is two different GL not wanting to share jurisdiction. I am in favor of full visitation


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## Beathard (Apr 28, 2011)

They don't want to share and defiantly don't want to merge. I really don't blame them either. But visitation is definitely a possibility. Will it take a resolution? Has anyone put one in?  The deadline is the 15th of May.


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## Bro.Speight (May 16, 2011)

choppersteve03 said:


> but i let people talk me out of it because it was the black masons



Bro. Smith, 

I am just starting my travels and I am PHA F&AM. We have Brothers of all race in or lodge and I feel that this is the true meaning of Masonry. We all meet on the level and part on the square. I agree we all should "Roll together" but that is up to each Brother to make happen. To me a Brother is a Brother. I am happy to say that you are my Brother and my cable-tow stretches past the lines of race. Nice to meet you.


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## Roach (May 18, 2011)

Finding that the core values are the same across mainstream and PHA may I ask are the teachings the same?


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## nwendele (May 18, 2011)

I am so glad to see so many others share my feelings.  Many years ago, I asked a man who I truly respected, about Masonry.  He thanked me for asking, but then told me I really needed to "ask my own kind".  As an army brat who grew up in what I though was a color-blind society, it was quite shocking.  It tarnished my view of both him and Masonry.  I now see and understand what he meant, but if he had explained it in a bit more detail, I would have taken it very differenty.
I deeply hope for full visitation very soon.


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## kosei (May 20, 2011)

The teachings and degree work are the same,one difference is that we teach the hisory of Prince Hall and his contribution of making Masonry available to African Americans here in the U.S.A. Prince Hall was made a Mason along with 14 other African Americans on March 6, 1775 in Lodge No. 441, A British military Lodge attached to the 38th Regiment ot Foot. A year later, the military Lodge that had initiated Hall was leaving Boston, but before they left, the lodge granted Prince Hall & his brethren authority to meet as a Lodge, bury their dead, & march in the processions for St. John's Day. However, they were not given authority to confer degrees or perform any other "work". With this authority granted to them, Prince Hall & his brethern organized as African Lodge No. 1, on July 3, 1775, with Hall as Master. In order to become a fully functioning Lodge that could confer degrees, African Lodge No. 1 needed to be charterd. Unable to obtain a Charter from a Grand Lodge in the United States, they appealed to the Grand Lodge of England & were granted Charter on Sept. 29, 1785, as African Lodge No. 459. it wasn't until later that those lodges and Grand Lodges that descended from African Lodge No. 459, chose to give their fraternity Hall's name to distinguish it from predominantly white "mainstream" Lodges that generally excluded blacks throughout the 19th & part of the 20th century. 





Roach said:


> Finding that the core values are the same across mainstream and PHA may I ask are the teachings the same?


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## Beathard (May 20, 2011)

Thank you for the history Kosei.


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## kosei (May 20, 2011)

You're most welcome and believe it or not their are alot of PHA brothers that want to mend and strengthen our relationship between the GLoTX and the MWPHGLoTX





Beathard said:


> Thank you for the history Kosei.


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## Beathard (May 20, 2011)

Yes, I know that PH masons want to meet and have fellowship. I am good friends with several.  My comment above was PH Grand Lodge does not want to become part of our Grand Lodge. I don't  believe either will ever want to merge and cease to exist. Visitation is probably all we can hope for now. Demit/Transfer capabilities in the distant future.


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## TCShelton (Jun 13, 2011)

I'd be glad to answer this question for any serious inquirers via pm.  And yes, I am that founding member who switched over to PH.


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