# MWPHGLCA



## Alfred Taylor (Jun 6, 2018)

Is it common practice to ask for a Brothers financial records when trying to demit into the MWPHGLCA?


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## Thomas Stright (Jun 6, 2018)

Alfred Taylor said:


> Is it common practice to ask for a Brothers financial records when trying to demit into the MWPHGLCA?



No. It’s not common to ever ask that. 


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## Warrior1256 (Jun 6, 2018)

Alfred Taylor said:


> Is it common practice to ask for a Brothers financial records when trying to demit into the MWPHGLCA?





Thomas Stright said:


> No. It’s not common to ever ask that.


I would have been very surprised in the answer was otherwise.


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## Alfred Taylor (Jun 6, 2018)

This is going to be a very interesting turn of events I feel like


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## MarkR (Jun 7, 2018)

I've heard this in other PHA jurisdictions.


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## Alfred Taylor (Jun 7, 2018)

And what purpose did it serve? If you don’t mind me asking?


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## Bloke (Jun 7, 2018)

Depends on who you mean by "financial records" and who is asking.
For instance, if leaving, you will not get a clearance certificate showing you left in good standing without having paid your dues.

Some more context might be good to answer your question..


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## Alfred Taylor (Jun 7, 2018)

The secretary where I am going asked the secretary where I came from for a copy of my financial records.. 

The way the questions were posed was if I was current on my dues, and secondly if they could send a copy of my financial records.. 

I have Demitted once before and that particular question was never asked. It also took the secretary by surprise as well.. 

Really just trying to find some kind of understanding as to why that would be required without rocking the boat with my new lodge


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## Bro. David F. Hill (Jun 7, 2018)

They are not asking for the person's private financial records. There are two questions asked when a brother wants to demit; (1) is he financially square with the lodge that he is leaving, and (2) is he currently under any charges in that lodge.

If he still owes any dues or assessments, they must be taken care of first. If he is currently facing masonic charges or has been expelled/suspended, those issues must be resolved.

When a demit request is given to the secretary, he must address those two questions.

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## dfreybur (Jun 7, 2018)

One issue with historical demits is they determine when a Brother becomes a 50 year member.  You're not a 50 year member on the 50th anniversary of your raising.  You're a 50 year member once you have a record of 50 years in paying status or an equivalent.  A period on open demit extends the date when a Brother is a 50 year Mason.

I remember that happening in my mother lodge.  A Brother reached the 50th anniversary of his raising so he applied for the award.  His records showed he'd been on open demit for 9-10 years at one point.  Show his award was 9-10 years later.

Paying equivalent includes remitted dues, paying status in some other lodge, having a life/endowed membership and so on.


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## Bloke (Jun 7, 2018)

Bro. David F. Hill said:


> They are not asking for the person's private financial records. There are two questions asked when a brother wants to demit; (1) is he financially square with the lodge that he is leaving, and (2) is he currently under any charges in that lodge.
> 
> If he still owes any dues or assessments, they must be taken care of first. If he is currently facing masonic charges or has been expelled/suspended, those issues must be resolved.
> 
> ...


Indeed. As  a joining member here, as a Secretary, Constitutionally, I must make sure you were in good standing when you left your last lodge and that means you had no unresolved disciplinary action, no expulsion or suspension and that you own your old lodge(s) no money for dues. Before I ascertain those things, I cannot allow you to be voted upon as a joining member. The most simple form of evidence of that is a Clearance Certificate (also called a Demit in the States) but even with that in hand, I would double check with GL (or your old GL via my GL if you're from another Jurisdiction) that you were not owing money or such in a second lodge.

Sounds like the Sec at your new lodge is not giving you a hard time but following a process, which is probably constitutional or established under regulation or by-laws. Simple solution is to provide proof or contacts that you were (or are) in Good Standing with your previous Lodge(s). If he wants your credit card statement - politely decline.


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## Alfred Taylor (Jun 7, 2018)

I’ve already produced them with my Demit from my current lodge. So that already shows I’m a member in good standing with my lodge as well as the Grand Lodge. 

Nowhere near applying for any type of longstanding membership awards or anything of that nature. As per the constitution I have not seen anything that deems this as procedural (I have family members who are PM of the lodge I am trying to demit to). 

It raised a flag to my secretary and made me question some things so I’m just trying to understand.


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## Bro. David F. Hill (Jun 7, 2018)

Check your constitution to see what it says on demits as there's separate requirements for every jurisdiction. If you have met the requirements and believe that you are being given bogus information, contact your Grand Secretary.  

But my best advice is to be informed and ask questions. So many times in life we accept things as truth without question. Two things that govern all lodges; the lodge bylaws and the Grand Lodge constitution.

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## Bloke (Jun 8, 2018)

Alfred Taylor said:


> I’ve already produced them with my Demit from my current lodge. So that already shows I’m a member in good standing with my lodge as well as the Grand Lodge.
> 
> Nowhere near applying for any type of longstanding membership awards or anything of that nature. As per the constitution I have not seen anything that deems this as procedural (I have family members who are PM of the lodge I am trying to demit to).
> 
> It raised a flag to my secretary and made me question some things so I’m just trying to understand.


We have a secretaries handbook - there might be something there he is following....or he might be just trying to make your life hard, but give it some time and it might just get sorted...


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## acjohnson53 (Jul 2, 2018)

Alfred Taylor said:


> Is it common practice to ask for a Brothers financial records when trying to demit into the MWPHGLCA?


 "NO"


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## acjohnson53 (Jul 2, 2018)

where are you in California???


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## acjohnson53 (Jul 2, 2018)

When I demitted to my lodge, my dues were current, with two years left.(I paid in advance)


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## Alfred Taylor (Jul 7, 2018)

acjohnson53 said:


> where are you in California???


Vacaville, trying to demit to a lodge in Vallejo Northern California


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## Alfred Taylor (Jul 7, 2018)

acjohnson53 said:


> When I demitted to my lodge, my dues were current, with two years left.(I paid in advance)


My dues are current thru the 2018-19 Masonic year


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## acjohnson53 (Jul 21, 2018)

it should not be a problem, because there are allot of Prince Hall Lodges in that area. Fairfield, Richmond, Vallejo, Oakland, San Francisco, Sacramento, Stockton< Marysville. I can keep going....


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