# When visiting a lodge for first time.........



## Plustax (Apr 4, 2011)

I understand that when a person visits a lodge here in Texas, all that is required is ID (Tx Drivers License) and your membership card?  If so, what ever happened to "checking" a candidate before being permitted in to the lodge? Now a day anyone can make a dues card. Someone mentioned that the Grand Lodge made this decision quite some time ago and I'm wondering if it's true and curious as to why this was passed (if so).  Thanks.


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## Beathard (Apr 4, 2011)

True, but most lodges still give some sort of exam. I visit lodges all over TX. I have always been tested.


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## Plustax (Apr 4, 2011)

Understand, but do you know if it's true that the Grand Lodge passed something that it is no longer necessary to perform a small exam on a person requesting entrance?  Just seems that it contradicts about ensuring that we're supposed to make sure that a candidate is "thoroughly" investigated before becoming a mason, yet anyone with a card can enter a lodge. Again, this is only if in fact it is true that exams are no longer needed.


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## Bro. Bennett (Apr 4, 2011)

The way I understood this rule is as follows; The ID and Dues card is to ensure one is up to date on their dues, and semi in good standing with their home lodge, the exam is still to make sure that in the event someone does in fact duplicate or defraud themselves by making a dues card, they will not be allowed entry into the lodge.


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## Plustax (Apr 4, 2011)

Excellent.  That makes more sense to me. The "exam" is just to further recognize the brother for whom he says he is. Sure hope that's the way it's been sent out.


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## relapse98 (Apr 4, 2011)

Art. 380. (416). Good Standing. Upon notification to the Worshipful Master, and at his discretion, a member of a lodge under the jurisdiction of this Grand Lodge may visit any Texas Masonic Lodge working under this jurisdiction without the avouchment and or examination process providing that he is in good standing and presents a receipt from his Lodge showing that his dues are current at the time of said visitation along with a photo identification; except in cases provided for in Art. 382. Sojourning Masons from other jurisdictions must possess a current dues card and shall be vouched for or examined in accordance with Art. 381. (Revised 1999)


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## cemab4y (Apr 4, 2011)

I last attended a TX lodge in 1991. I visited Fraternity lodge #1111, in El Paso. I presented my (KY) dues card, and I was given a brief examination. I have visited lodges in 13 states, WashDC, and five foreign countries. The depth and intensity of the investigation on a visiting Freemason, varies greatly. As a rule, when you visit a lodge, where no one can vouch for you , you should be prepared to do the following:

Arrive 30 minutes prior to the meeting time, in order to give the lodge officers time to do the exam.
Bring a current dues card, and one other form of identification.
Be prepared to show the signs, and the grips, and state the words.
Be prepared to take the "tyler's oath", where you will have to swear that you a Master Mason in good standing.


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## gnarledrose (Apr 5, 2011)

This is JUST the topic I came to this forum for! I'm going to be visiting St. John's Lodge #51 in late August, and I was just stopping by to ask about traveling protocol. Your advice is timely, my brothers!  :laugh:


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## Blake Bowden (Apr 5, 2011)

In New Mexico I had to give the Tylers Oath. They had a card for me to read but I went ahead and memorized it earlier that day. Other than that, I haven't been examined by any other Lodge. Kinda sad actually.


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## Tony Siciliano (Apr 5, 2011)

In NC, one must have a current dues card, be from a recognized GL (the Secretary has a book), and be examined by an ad-hoc examination committee.  Nothing too challenging, just what a MM would know.  Some places do the Tyler's Oath.

Conversely, the visitor has the right to ask to see the Charter to ensure the Lodge is regular.


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## cacarter (Apr 6, 2011)

I just had my temporary card (the 2011 dues cards had not arrived yet) when I visited my hometown lodge in Arizona.  I showed it to them, and asked "Do you need to investigate me any?"  I was disappointed when they said "No, usually the dues card is enough for us."  I wanted to "wow" them with my mastery of the work.  Oh well.


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## tom268 (Apr 6, 2011)

If you want to visit a lodge outside the US, you should get in contact with the lodge/GL over there via your own Grand Secretary. For example, in Germany (similar in the rest of Europe) we don't use due cards, and the test is difficult, as signs, words and even the general layout of the lodge is different.

I experienced that when I visited a lodge in Mass. many years ago. The test took me over half an hour, just to explain the differences.


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## Plustax (Sep 10, 2016)

I recently learned that if the SW has not sat in lodge with a mason attending that night, he HAS to plead NOT SATISFIED and go thru process of vouching of all members. I know what the GLoT book states, but it's still not clear that this falls on the SW.  Example.. if SW has never sat in lodge with GM(visiting), he must NOT BE SATISFIED, yet he knows many sitting in the lodge room to have already sat with him previously. Whether it's GM or any of his representatives for that matter. If a lodge happens to be popular that people like to come and visit then that's going to be NOT SATISFIED at every Stated meeting.  Just my thoughts and wondering.....


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## Brother JC (Sep 10, 2016)

NM goes through the process every time lodge opens, whereas in CA the SW does a scan before lodge opens and makes his determination.


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## Ripcord22A (Sep 10, 2016)

Oregon is the same as CA in that matter JC


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## Bill Lins (Sep 10, 2016)

Plustax said:


> I recently learned that if the SW has not sat in lodge with a mason attending that night, he HAS to plead NOT SATISFIED and go thru process of vouching of all members. I know what the GLoT book states, but it's still not clear that this falls on the SW.  Example.. if SW has never sat in lodge with GM(visiting), he must NOT BE SATISFIED, yet he knows many sitting in the lodge room to have already sat with him previously. Whether it's GM or any of his representatives for that matter. If a lodge happens to be popular that people like to come and visit then that's going to be NOT SATISFIED at every Stated meeting.  Just my thoughts and wondering.....


Absolutely, and something we went over @ the DDGM orientation in Houston this morning.  If the SW has not sat in a tiled blue Lodge *OR* Grand Lodge with the Grand Master, he CANNOT be satisfied and the Lodge must go through the avouchment procedure. In our larger Lodges, it does indeed happen at every stated and some called meetings. Now, for extra credit:
1. Who _*CANNOT*_ be examined? (Hint- 2 persons + 1 group of people).
2. In the instance above, who is responsible for vouching in the event that no one present can vouch for any of the Brethren who, by law, cannot be examined?


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## Ripcord22A (Sep 11, 2016)

Not a Texas Mason but ill take a stab.....GM and Assistant GM and GM entourage.  Tiler Vouches?


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## Bill Lins (Sep 11, 2016)

jdmadsenCraterlake211 said:


> Not a Texas Mason but ill take a stab.....GM and Assistant GM and GM entourage.  Tiler Vouches?


You're 1 for 3. Sitting GM is one of the two individuals. Tiler only vouches for if they show up after the Lodge has been purged. Anyone else?


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## Warrior1256 (Sep 11, 2016)

Bro. Bennett said:


> The way I understood this rule is as follows; The ID and Dues card is to ensure one is up to date on their dues, and semi in good standing with their home lodge, the exam is still to make sure that in the event someone does in fact duplicate or defraud themselves by making a dues card, they will not be allowed entry into the lodge.


Exactly the way that it is here.


Tony Siciliano said:


> Some places do the Tyler's Oath.


You have to recite it here also along with something "extra".


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## Bill Lins (Sep 12, 2016)

Bill_Lins77488 said:


> for extra credit:
> 1. Who _*CANNOT*_ be examined? (Hint- 2 persons + 1 group of people).
> 2. In the instance above, who is responsible for vouching in the event that no one present can vouch for any of the Brethren who, by law, cannot be examined?


OK, Texas Masons- if y'all cannot answer these questions, get yourselves to a Briscoe Workshop & learn some things! They're going on right now- this coming Saturday in my District.


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## Ripcord22A (Sep 12, 2016)

Whats the answer?


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## mrpierce17 (Sep 12, 2016)

Bill_Lins77488 said:


> You're 1 for 3. Sitting GM is one of the two individuals. Tiler only vouches for if they show up after the Lodge has been purged. Anyone else?



GM ,PGM & WM vouches ??


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## Bill Lins (Sep 13, 2016)

The Brethren who cannot be examined are 1. The sitting Grand Master, 2. The sitting DDGM of your District *when on an official visit*, and 3. members of your Lodge.  In the event no one else can vouch for the above, it falls to the WM of the Lodge to vouch for the GM & DDGM (the theory is that the WM attended Grand Lodge & should have met both while there), and to the Lodge Secretary, who is supposed to be able to verify the membership of any member of his Lodge. Ain't this fun?


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## Warrior1256 (Sep 14, 2016)

Bill Lins said:


> The Brethren who cannot be examined are 1. The sitting Grand Master, 2. The sitting DDGM of your District *when on an official visit*, and 3. members of your Lodge.  In the event no one else can vouch for the above, it falls to the WM of the Lodge to vouch for the GM & DDGM (the theory is that the WM attended Grand Lodge & should have met both while there), and to the Lodge Secretary, who is supposed to be able to verify the membership of any member of his Lodge. Ain't this fun?


Nice. I'm going to see if this applies here.


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## Bobby V (Feb 13, 2018)

I'm a 45 year member of Fairport-Flower City 476 F&AM (GLoNY) now living in Texas. On my first visit to a Texas lodge in 2011, I was asked to show my current dues card and my drivers license. I was also gently asked if I remembered the Tyler's Oath. The first time I heard of this oath was when I relocated to Michigan in the early 90's. I don't remember NY lodges ever asking visiting brothers  for the Tyler's Oath. Dues cards should be hard to counterfeit as I believe most lodges emboss them with a raised seal.


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## Warrior1256 (Feb 13, 2018)

Bobby V said:


> I was also gently asked if I remembered the Tyler's Oath.





Bobby V said:


> I don't remember NY lodges ever asking visiting brothers for the Tyler's Oath.


Being asked to recite the Tyler's Oath is very common when being examined in my jurisdiction. I can almost guarantee that that this will be asked.


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## dfreybur (Feb 13, 2018)

Bobby V said:


> I was also gently asked if I remembered the Tyler's Oath.



I ask if I can recite the one I know.  Most deacons are used to doing the "repeat after me".  That's not nearly the fun.


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## Warrior1256 (Feb 14, 2018)

dfreybur said:


> Most deacons are used to doing the "repeat after me". That's not nearly the fun.


I'm not familiar with this Brother. Could you explain please?


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## dfreybur (Feb 14, 2018)

Warrior1256 said:


> I'm not familiar with this Brother. Could you explain please?



Not all that many Brothers memorize the Tyler's Oath.  It's not a mandatory part of the third degree proficiency in every jurisdiction.  The third degree proficiency is not mandatory in every jurisdiction.

More still forget it by the time they visit some lodge years later.

So deacons tend to do it the way we have candidates repeat their obligations during degrees.  Say to repeat after me, then spoon feed the words a bit at a time.


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## Warrior1256 (Feb 14, 2018)

dfreybur said:


> So deacons tend to do it the way we have candidates repeat their obligations during degrees. Say to repeat after me, then spoon feed the words a bit at a time.


O.K., got it. I didn't know this. Thanks for the explaination.


dfreybur said:


> Not all that many Brothers memorize the Tyler's Oath. It's not a mandatory part of the third degree proficiency in every jurisdiction. The third degree proficiency is not mandatory in every jurisdiction.


It's not in our proficiency either but in my jurisdiction it is very likely that you will be asked to repeat it when being examined for entrance into a lodge where there is no one to vouch for you.


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## CLewey44 (Feb 14, 2018)

I visited at least two Texas lodges and neither even checked my ID or dues card nor did they 'test me'. I probably shouldn't announce that but it's true.


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## Warrior1256 (Feb 14, 2018)

CLewey44 said:


> I visited at least two Texas lodges and neither even checked my ID or dues card nor did they 'test me'. I probably shouldn't announce that but it's true.


Yeah, that's not good.


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## dfreybur (Feb 14, 2018)

CLewey44 said:


> I visited at least two Texas lodges and neither even checked my ID or dues card nor did they 'test me'. I probably shouldn't announce that but it's true.



I walked into an Indiana lodge and asked if they were opening that night.  When they said yes I put on my PM apron and asked if I could be put on the agenda to deliver one of my masonic education talks.  They didn't even ask to see my ID.  After closing I pointed that out to the SD.  He just laughed.  Hey, I could have been clandestine ...

At least a couple of Texas lodges asked to see my ID.  Only one asked me if I knew the Tyler's Oath - I asked to please let me do the Illinois one as that was the one I knew.  Once I'd affiliated Brothers started knowing me from various events.


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## Martin Strarup (Aug 23, 2018)

Bill Lins said:


> The Brethren who cannot be examined are 1. The sitting Grand Master, 2. The sitting DDGM of your District *when on an official visit*, and 3. members of your Lodge.  In the event no one else can vouch for the above, it falls to the WM of the Lodge to vouch for the GM & DDGM (the theory is that the WM attended Grand Lodge & should have met both while there), and to the Lodge Secretary, who is supposed to be able to verify the membership of any member of his Lodge. Ain't this fun?



How's it going Bill...thought I was looking for something and found this old thread. It was good seeing you tonight buddy.

Martin


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## texanmason (Aug 24, 2018)

We had a visitor from New York who had a valid dues card + ID, but did not know the Tyler's Oath. When I tried him, he instead gave the entire Master Mason's trial lecture! I was satisfied.


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## Keith C (Aug 24, 2018)

texanmason said:


> We had a visitor from New York who had a valid dues card + ID, but did not know the Tyler's Oath. When I tried him, he instead gave the entire Master Mason's trial lecture! I was satisfied.



I guess I better never try to go to a lodge in Texas.

1) In PA we do not have the "Tyler's Oath."
2) The oath we do have ("Oath of Examination") is a read & repeat that no one has to memorize
3) No one outside of PA would recognize any of our Degree Lectures!


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## texanmason (Aug 24, 2018)

What do you do when you go visit lodges in other Jurisdictions?


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## Warrior1256 (Aug 24, 2018)

texanmason said:


> We had a visitor from New York who had a valid dues card + ID, but did not know the Tyler's Oath. When I tried him, he instead gave the entire Master Mason's trial lecture! I was satisfied.


Wow!!!


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## MarkR (Aug 25, 2018)

Almost no one in Minnesota knows the Tyler's Oath from memory.  That's not the way we use it.  After we've seen the visitor's dues card and asked him some questions, and are satisfied, we use the oath in a "repeat after me" manner to have the visitor confirm that he's a Master Mason in good standing.


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## Warrior1256 (Aug 25, 2018)

MarkR said:


> After we've seen the visitor's dues card and asked him some questions, and are satisfied, we use the oath in a "repeat after me" manner to have the visitor confirm that he's a Master Mason in good standing.


I hadn't heard of this before. Thanks for the info Brother.


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## Bill Lins (Aug 25, 2018)

Martin Strarup said:


> How's it going Bill...thought I was looking for something and found this old thread. It was good seeing you tonight buddy.


Hope to see you again, & soon!


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## dfreybur (Aug 27, 2018)

MarkR said:


> Almost no one in Minnesota knows the Tyler's Oath from memory.  That's not the way we use it.  After we've seen the visitor's dues card and asked him some questions, and are satisfied, we use the oath in a "repeat after me" manner to have the visitor confirm that he's a Master Mason in good standing.



The California version of the Tyler's Oath is part of the third degree proficiency.  Which is optional unless you get elected to a lodge office.  It being a part of the extremely long California MM proficiency it's shorter than other versions I've learned.

When I first started visiting in Texas I asked to recite it and they had no idea how to react.


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## Keith C (Aug 27, 2018)

texanmason said:


> What do you do when you go visit lodges in other Jurisdictions?



I have yet to visit a lodge outside of PA.. I guess I will find out.

When we have visitors from outside PA, we have to see their dues card, check with the Secretary that PA recognizes their jurisdiction, then examine them with a couple questions any MM can answer and have them show the FPOF and the adopted word.  Then we administer an Oath which is read by the Chair of the Examining Committee and repeated by the visitor.


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## dfreybur (Aug 27, 2018)

Keith C said:


> Then we administer an Oath which is read by the Chair of the Examining Committee and repeated by the visitor.



So your jurisdiction calls it by some name other than "Tyler's Oath" but it is still, in fact, the same thing.

I've seen similar in claims that some jurisdictions don't use dues cards and therefore don't accept dues cards.  But they do accept a signed embossed document printed by a recognized jurisdiction and signed by both the member and the lodge's secretary.  "Here's my dues card."  "We don't take dues cards."   "What do you take?"  "We take a signed embossed document printed by a recognized jurisdiction and signed by both the member and the lodge's secretary."  "Okay, here's a document that is all that stuff but is not what you would cal a dues card." (Hands over dues card).


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## Keith C (Aug 27, 2018)

dfreybur said:


> So your jurisdiction calls it by some name other than "Tyler's Oath" but it is still, in fact, the same thing.



Having never been informed of the content of the "Tyler's Oath" I personally can't say for sure, but others I have spoken to from PA who have traveled to other jurisdictions have told me the content of the oaths are very different. That and the fact that we do not memorize ours makes me wonder what would happen if I were to attempt to visit a lodge in Texas, or other jurisdictions that expect a visiting MM to be able to recite their oath from memory.


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## Warrior1256 (Aug 27, 2018)

Keith C said:


> I have yet to visit a lodge outside of PA.. I guess I will find out.


Same here. I haven't visited outside of Kentucky.


dfreybur said:


> "Here's my dues card." "We don't take dues cards." "What do you take?" "We take a signed embossed document printed by a recognized jurisdiction and signed by both the member and the lodge's secretary." "Okay, here's a document that is all that stuff but is not what you would cal a dues card." (Hands over dues card).


LOL!!!!!!


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## Elexir (Aug 27, 2018)

dfreybur said:


> So your jurisdiction calls it by some name other than "Tyler's Oath" but it is still, in fact, the same thing.
> 
> I've seen similar in claims that some jurisdictions don't use dues cards and therefore don't accept dues cards.  But they do accept a signed embossed document printed by a recognized jurisdiction and signed by both the member and the lodge's secretary.  "Here's my dues card."  "We don't take dues cards."   "What do you take?"  "We take a signed embossed document printed by a recognized jurisdiction and signed by both the member and the lodge's secretary."  "Okay, here's a document that is all that stuff but is not what you would cal a dues card." (Hands over dues card).



I think the reason the term dues card is not used is becuse the term is unknown. Here in Sweden we have a membership card that is electronic thats not changed over the years unless you lose it.


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## acjohnson53 (Aug 28, 2018)

When I visit a LOdge for the first time, I always extend myself to assist on any activity that the Lodge as going on, and try understand the Law of the Lodge ie. Degree work, sit in a seat and what not....I try to leave with a lasting impression of what it is to be a Master Mason, because I am an extension of my Lodge....


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## Warrior1256 (Aug 29, 2018)

acjohnson53 said:


> I try to leave with a lasting impression of what it is to be a Master Mason, because I am an extension of my Lodge....


Excellent point. I feel exactly the same way.


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## Bill Lins (Aug 29, 2018)

Keith C said:


> the fact that we do not memorize ours makes me wonder what would happen if I were to attempt to visit a lodge in Texas, or other jurisdictions that expect a visiting MM to be able to recite their oath from memory.


In practice, we don't expect everyone to recite the Oath from memory. The visitor & the examining committee members each hold one corner of a VSL while giving the Oath in a "repeat after me" manner. Thus, the visitor is swearing upon the VSL that he is worthy & qualified to enter. If that's not good enough, I don't know what would be.


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## Keith C (Aug 30, 2018)

Bill Lins said:


> In practice, we don't expect everyone to recite the Oath from memory. The visitor & the examining committee members each hold one corner of a VSL while giving the Oath in a "repeat after me" manner. Thus, the visitor is swearing upon the VSL that he is worthy & qualified to enter. If that's not good enough, I don't know what would be.



That makes total sense and is essentially what we do as well.  That is not what other Brothers from Texas have indicated is done at their Lodge.


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## Warrior1256 (Aug 30, 2018)

Keith C said:


> That is not what other Brothers from Texas have indicated is done at their Lodge.


...or in Kentucky. Here reciting the Tyler's Oath by memory is part of the trial.


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## MarkR (Aug 31, 2018)

Warrior1256 said:


> ...or in Kentucky. Here reciting the Tyler's Oath by memory is part of the trial.


So, if I were to try to visit a Kentucky lodge, I'd be turned away because I don't have the Tyler's Oath memorized?


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## Warrior1256 (Aug 31, 2018)

MarkR said:


> So, if I were to try to visit a Kentucky lodge, I'd be turned away because I don't have the Tyler's Oath memorized?


No. It would be taken into consideration that you were from another jurisdiction and other questions would be asked instead.


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## texanmason (Aug 31, 2018)

MarkR said:


> So, if I were to try to visit a Kentucky lodge, I'd be turned away because I don't have the Tyler's Oath memorized?



I can't speak for Kentucky, but here in Texas, I've done much more free-form examinations for brethren from Jurisdictions that don't use the Tyler's Oath (or do not require memorizing it).


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## acjohnson53 (Sep 9, 2018)

if a Brother comes to visit out of know where of course it would impress me to see him walk the Tyler, but if invited by another Brother from that Lodge, then that Brother is vouching for that visiting Brother,, also I am always trying to get them Past Masters to Walk the Tylers Sword....


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## Warrior1256 (Sep 9, 2018)

acjohnson53 said:


> it would impress me to see him walk the Tyler,





acjohnson53 said:


> I am always trying to get them Past Masters to Walk the Tylers Sword....


I am not familiar with these terms Brother. For my education could you explain them?


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## hfmm97 (Sep 9, 2018)

I believe that test is specific to PHA and may involve esoteric work...we do not do that test as part of admission into a Waco MWGLofTX lodge


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## Bill Lins (Sep 9, 2018)

Keith C said:


> That is not what other Brothers from Texas have indicated is done at their Lodge.


Those "other Brothers" would do well to check with the Committee on Work or, better yet, attend some of the Forums the Committee conducts around our state. They could then learn the prescribed procedure.


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## Elexir (Sep 10, 2018)

Bill Lins said:


> Those "other Brothers" would do well to check with the Committee on Work or, better yet, attend some of the Forums the Committee conducts around our state. They could then learn the prescribed procedure.



So GL of Texas should define what the PHAGL of Texas should do?


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## Bro. David F. Hill (Sep 10, 2018)

Someone is giving out incorrect info. As of last year the process for intervisitation has been streamlined. It's preferred that a Traveler first contact the lodge Secretary to confirm that there is nothing on the agenda that would preclude visitors. Other than that, all they need is a current dues card and photo ID. If anything, they might have to recite the  "Tiler's Oath" that both Grand Lodges agreed on. All of our members are required to recite it before every meeting. Walking the sword is totally different but impressive to see. 

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## Bill Lins (Sep 10, 2018)

Elexir said:


> So GL of Texas should define what the PHAGL of Texas should do?


I took Bro. Keith to be referring to GLoTX Masons.


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## Bill Lins (Sep 10, 2018)

Bro. David F. Hill said:


> Walking the sword is totally different but impressive to see.


I hope someday to see that.


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## Warrior1256 (Sep 11, 2018)

Bro. David F. Hill said:


> Walking the sword is totally different but impressive to see.


I know that this is a public forum but is there anything that you are allowed to say in general terms about Walking the Sword? Or perhaps private message me concerning same?


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## Keith C (Sep 11, 2018)

Bill Lins said:


> I took Bro. Keith to be referring to GLoTX Masons.



Indeed!


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