# "That's not how we do it..."



## LK600 (Dec 21, 2018)

Hello,

     So I've been in Freemasonry for 2 years at this point and am about to be installed as Secretary.  I mentioned this in a previous post, but I thought I would ask for perspective since I am becoming more and more frustrated.  It seems that any idea I (or anyone else fairly new) conveys is summarily ignored, shot down, or excuses are given why it can't or shouldn't be done.  A recent example would be due to our elections having recently taken place and installations soon coming, I put together a small "cheat sheet" for the several newer members.  In it I listed all of the lodge officers, breaking them down into position, mandatory or not with a brief description of each.  I also did the same for committees (brief descriptions with which are mandatory and not).  In the following week, I have been warned to be careful before I make someone mad, That I shouldn't be trying to tell the members what they are suppose to do, and that my paper wasn't all that accurate.  Mind you, I pulled every bit of it from the Digest and the Grand Lodge Officers manual.  When I pointed that out, I was told that the GL Officers manual is just best practices and did not have to be followed.  

That was just one example out of dozens.  The newer people are told to bring forth their thoughts and feelings but it usually ends along these lines.  My question is should I not be frustrated?  Should I just bide my time until I have more time in and experience?  Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.  (I also want to state the the Brothers are wonderful people who have been in all other areas great to be with.)


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## Thomas Stright (Dec 21, 2018)

Doesn't matter if some say that's not We do things here... Those that say this are usually misinformed or never researched the babble they are repeating.

What matters is the lodge does things the way GL dictates.


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## Warrior1256 (Dec 21, 2018)

Thomas Stright said:


> What matters is the lodge does things the way GL dictates.


Agreed. Your lodge is very lucky that with only two years in that you are willing to take on the responsibility of Secretary. In my opinion Secretary is the most important job in the lodge. I have made the statement that a lodge can survive a bad Master as long as it has a good Secretary. As long as you are within GL guidelines and those of your Constitution you are in great shape. You are always going to have that someone(s) in lodge that resists any and every change large or small. When I was installed as WM I made a very small change in the way that we opened the lodge. I was well within the fore mentioned guide lines. One of the Old Guard immediately came forth with well known...."We don't do it that way here!" My reply was that we do it that way here for the next twelve months.


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## Winter (Dec 21, 2018)

I can see where it would be frustrating as you try to take the initiative and do things that may need to be done.  But also look at it from the other side of the situation.  When you create any documents for the Brothers in your Lodge without the direction or permission of the WM it can be interpreted as undercutting their authority.  Neither the content or message was reviewed by the Lodge's leadership to make sure it matches the tone and message that he wants to convey to the Lodge.  While I have no doubt you were diligent in its accuracy, the push back may be a result of others seeing your actions as overstepping their bounds.  My advice would be to slow down.  Remember that nothing in Freemasonry ever happens as fast as it needs to or we would usually like it to happen.  Put together a list of ideas you have for the Lodge.  Make sure every idea is supported by chapter and verse from your GL's Code that shows it is allowable as well as a clear statement on how that idea would benefit your Lodge.  And then submit those ideas in writing to the Master, preferably at an officer's meeting, so they can be discussed by the Lodge's leadership.  (Not to mention, your ideas become part of the record that way.)  You will need to sell your ideas with clear cost/benefit analysis to Brothers who may be very happy to continue doing things as they always have.

Most importantly, do not let the frustration you will inevitably experience turn you off from trying.  You will encounter resistance.  Don't take unwillingness to try your new ideas as a personal attack.  Just put that one on the shelf to try again later.  Your best bet may be to work through the progressive line until you sit in the East and can then dust off your rejected ideas and start delegating them to your officers to enact.


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## dfreybur (Dec 21, 2018)

I've received numerous summaries of officer duties as you described. All are similar. All have slight differences. Whatever.

When someone complains can you bring yourself to respond like this? "You Brothers are hilarious. Thanks for the entertaining story."


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## CLewey44 (Dec 21, 2018)

LK600 said:


> Hello,
> 
> So I've been in Freemasonry for 2 years at this point and am about to be installed as Secretary.  I mentioned this in a previous post, but I thought I would ask for perspective since I am becoming more and more frustrated.  It seems that any idea I (or anyone else fairly new) conveys is summarily ignored, shot down, or excuses are given why it can't or shouldn't be done.  A recent example would be due to our elections having recently taken place and installations soon coming, I put together a small "cheat sheet" for the several newer members.  In it I listed all of the lodge officers, breaking them down into position, mandatory or not with a brief description of each.  I also did the same for committees (brief descriptions with which are mandatory and not).  In the following week, I have been warned to be careful before I make someone mad, That I shouldn't be trying to tell the members what they are suppose to do, and that my paper wasn't all that accurate.  Mind you, I pulled every bit of it from the Digest and the Grand Lodge Officers manual.  When I pointed that out, I was told that the GL Officers manual is just best practices and did not have to be followed.
> 
> That was just one example out of dozens.  The newer people are told to bring forth their thoughts and feelings but it usually ends along these lines.  My question is should I not be frustrated?  Should I just bide my time until I have more time in and experience?  Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.  (I also want to state the the Brothers are wonderful people who have been in all other areas great to be with.)


Like Bro. Warrior, I can't get passed you being Secretary so quickly but kudos to you for sure. 

I definitely think you had the right idea and perfectly good intentions for the lodge and fraternity as a whole but like like Bro. Winter mentioned, the WM or Wardens may have felt a little left out of this endeavor and therefore were concerned with your motives. Again, I know your motives were for the good and I 100% agree with your idea.  I think it's a great tool to help people make an informed decision. 

I'm curious, who was it that said you shouldn't do this? A current line officer, PM or otherwise? That may help point to THEIR motives for coming to you about this and then disregarding GL guidance as just "recommendations".


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## Warrior1256 (Dec 21, 2018)

dfreybur said:


> When someone complains can you bring yourself to respond like this? "You Brothers are hilarious. Thanks for the entertaining story."


Lol! Great....I like this!


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## David612 (Dec 21, 2018)

Secretary is a big job, congratulations on taking it on, it’s interesting that you are being actively discouraged- I actually just encountered the same thing for taking on charges.. no idea why


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## LK600 (Dec 21, 2018)

Warrior1256 said:


> Your lodge is very lucky that with only two years in that you are willing to take on the responsibility of Secretary.



lol, well I guess that remains to be seen.  Lucky... or unlucky!  



Winter said:


> And then submit those ideas in writing to the Master, preferably at an officer's meeting, so they can be discussed by the Lodge's leadership. (Not to mention, your ideas become part of the record that way.)



That's actually a very good idea.  Maybe my informal approach is an issue unto itself?  



dfreybur said:


> When someone complains can you bring yourself to respond like this? "You Brothers are hilarious. Thanks for the entertaining story."



I could, but I feel that would most likely cause hurt feelings.  We have several alpha personalities (myself included) and this would be viewed by some as out right disrespect.  I only want to contribute to the Lodge, but I think you are correct in that I need to find a way to brush some of these things off.  



CLewey44 said:


> but like like Bro. Winter mentioned, the WM or Wardens may have felt a little left out of this endeavor and therefore were concerned with your motives.



Until recently, it would never have occurred to me that in a Lodge ANYONE would second guess the motives of another Brother (yea.. I was naive).  In some ways, I am finding we or not separate from, but a reflection of society.



David612 said:


> I actually just encountered the same thing for taking on charges.. no idea why



Sometimes (and I mean this internally and not accusing anyone of actually thinking this)... it can feel like new people are wanted as long as they pay dues, fill seats, and sit quietly and support the grownups in the room.


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## David612 (Dec 21, 2018)

LK600 said:


> lol, well I guess that remains to be seen.  Lucky... or unlucky!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


In regards to your reply to my quote, I’m inclined to agree- I mean trying to organise all these ambitious young masons must be hard- 
Honestly if I had not accepted the role of Chaplain and the EA I’m mentoring I would be looking at another lodge that does need people to fill in roles in degrees-
I’m keen and ready to work, last thing I want is to be told is to slow down without reason.


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## JanneProeliator (Dec 22, 2018)

Now I don't know if I come out as stupid saying this but in deed if you just go and do stuf that effects the whole lodge that might be considered rude. WM is the one running the show and that's how it should be. Ofcourse you should have ideas and you should be bale to present them but do it first to your WM and WITH him to the rest of the lodge. By just doing stuf that effects the whole lodge might seem like you are stepping on some toes or that ypou don't trust your WM to be able to run the lodge.

I don't know if this is the case or if there is something lost in translation but I hope I make sense.


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## David612 (Dec 22, 2018)

I feel as though the master of the lodge is more akin to an MC at any event- while it may appear that they are running the show they are up there because a large group of people put them there-representing them and their interests.


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## Warrior1256 (Dec 22, 2018)

David612 said:


> I feel as though the master of the lodge is more akin to an MC at any event- while it may appear that they are running the show they are up there because a large group of people put them there-representing them and their interests.


I agree but sometimes it just comes down to making a decision and everyone is not always happy with the decision that you make.


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## Winter (Dec 22, 2018)

David612 said:


> I feel as though the master of the lodge is more akin to an MC at any event- while it may appear that they are running the show they are up there because a large group of people put them there-representing them and their interests.



The Master is not analogous to an MC despite the fact that some WM behave that way.  The Master of Ceremonies introduces speakers and generally keeps the event moving along but has no power to compel.  Even though we elect the Master of a Lodge, he wields absolute power during his term in the East.  It is better described as akin to the office of Dictator in the ancient Roman *Republic *(not Empire) where one man is given absolute power to wield for a set period of time.  Look at the example of Lucius Quinctius Cincinnatus. In my home jurisdiction a sitting WM cannot even be brought up on Masonic charges until after his term.


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## David612 (Dec 22, 2018)

Winter said:


> The Master is not analogous to an MC despite the fact that some WM behave that way.  The Master of Ceremonies introduces speakers and generally keeps the event moving along but has no power to compel.  Even though we elect the Master of a Lodge, he wields absolute power during his term in the East.  It is better described as akin to the office of Dictator in the ancient Roman *Republic *(not Empire) where one man is given absolute power to wield for a set period of time.  Look at the example of Lucius Quinctius Cincinnatus. In my home jurisdiction a sitting WM cannot even be brought up on Masonic charges until after his term.



The Masters “Absolute power” is only applicable if people show up to be subjected to it.


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## David612 (Dec 22, 2018)

Warrior1256 said:


> I agree but sometimes it just comes down to making a decision and everyone is not always happy with the decision that you make.


Absolutely-a good master will justify himself to the lodge explaining his reasons and while they may not agree they will understand.


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## Bloke (Dec 22, 2018)

LK600 said:


> Hello,
> 
> So I've been in Freemasonry for 2 years at this point and am about to be installed as Secretary.  I mentioned this in a previous post, but I thought I would ask for perspective since I am becoming more and more frustrated.  It seems that any idea I (or anyone else fairly new) conveys is summarily ignored, shot down, or excuses are given why it can't or shouldn't be done.  A recent example would be due to our elections having recently taken place and installations soon coming, I put together a small "cheat sheet" for the several newer members.  In it I listed all of the lodge officers, breaking them down into position, mandatory or not with a brief description of each.  I also did the same for committees (brief descriptions with which are mandatory and not).  In the following week, I have been warned to be careful before I make someone mad, That I shouldn't be trying to tell the members what they are suppose to do, and that my paper wasn't all that accurate.  Mind you, I pulled every bit of it from the Digest and the Grand Lodge Officers manual.  When I pointed that out, I was told that the GL Officers manual is just best practices and did not have to be followed.
> 
> That was just one example out of dozens.  The newer people are told to bring forth their thoughts and feelings but it usually ends along these lines.  My question is should I not be frustrated?  Should I just bide my time until I have more time in and experience?  Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.  (I also want to state the the Brothers are wonderful people who have been in all other areas great to be with.)


I guess a good question is this; what did you learn and how might you introduce such things more effectively in the future?

It is easy to blame others, but the one thing you can control is how you approach trying to effect change, so don't look to those resisting it, keep looking to yourself how you can better lead or influence it (remembering as sec - your job is to administer and support the WM - not run the lodge - working out the difference, esp how your action are *perceived *by those around you is key to operating as a good sec). 

As a Freemason of two years, in the lodge culture you seem to describe - it might be that you are seen as lacking experience or legitimacy... keep that in mind as something you need to address. With something like your cheat sheet - add "Summary from Grand Lodge Officers manual" and when someone says you have it wrong, tell them where you got it, and if they still object - ask "for their help" and get them to review it and offer any suggestions... Acting on the WM's instructions is a good way to get legitimacy - so get his instructions to write a cheat sheet... Cc'ing Wardens - create a team so it is not just you.

Hasten slowly bro - in my third year as sec, after working with the Treas and WM to financially get us off the rocks,as a PM x3 and 15 years experience I was Cc'ed to a long email from a PM to the WM saying I was "running the lodge" - not true, beyond admin, all the stuff I was doing was at the request or with the express consent of the WM which completely legitimized what I had been doing. I am a big believer in letting the WM be the WM - and that as Sec I am his servant -  that approach gave me legitimacy, esp as the Wardens had been Cc'ed in emails and included in discussions.

Sounds like the first thing you need to do is pick your battles, and get the plan to change endorsed by the WM and others...


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## Warrior1256 (Dec 22, 2018)

Winter said:


> In my home jurisdiction a sitting WM cannot even be brought up on Masonic charges until after his term.


Same here in Kentucky.


David612 said:


> Absolutely-a good master will justify himself to the lodge explaining his reasons and while they may not agree they will understand.


Agreed.


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## Bill Lins (Dec 23, 2018)

Bloke said:


> I was Cc'ed to a long email from a PM to the WM saying I was "running the lodge" - not true, beyond admin, all the stuff I was doing was at the request or with the express consent of the WM which completely legitimized what I had been doing


Hopefully your WM straightened that PM out.


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## Bloke (Dec 23, 2018)

Bill Lins said:


> Hopefully your WM straightened that PM out.


No - neither of us have been able too.  Just giving it some time.. must be about 4+ months now.. The reality is, we cannot sort everything out - it is beyond our power, but nothing is done until it is done - so who knows where it will get to, hopefully somewhere better than now...


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## Warrior1256 (Dec 23, 2018)

Bloke said:


> Cc'ed to a long email from a PM to the WM saying I was "running the lodge" - not true, beyond admin, all the stuff I was doing was at the request or with the express consent of the WM which completely legitimized what I had been doing. I am a big believer in letting the WM be the WM - and that as Sec I am his servant


I have nothing but the utmost respect for Secretaries. 


Bill Lins said:


> Hopefully your WM straightened that PM out.





Bloke said:


> No - neither of us have been able too. Just giving it some time.. must be about 4+ months now.. The reality is, we cannot sort everything out - it is beyond our power, but nothing is done until it is done - so who knows where it will get to, hopefully somewhere better than now...


No matter how good and charitable an organization is you will always have things like this, internal politics. As long as what you are doing is at the will and pleasure of the WM you're good.


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## tldubb (Dec 23, 2018)

Warrior1256 said:


> I have nothing but the utmost respect for Secretaries.
> 
> 
> No matter how good and charitable an organization is you will always have things like this, internal politics. As long as what you are doing is at the will and pleasure of the WM you're good.



So true!


Sent from my iPhone using My Freemasonry Mobile


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## LK600 (Dec 26, 2018)

JanneProeliator said:


> Ofcourse you should have ideas and you should be bale to present them but do it first to your WM and WITH him to the rest of the lodge.



Yes, I will start presenting all ideas at the officer meetings (regardless of how minimal they may be).



Bloke said:


> what did you learn and how might you introduce such things more effectively in the future?



I have learned that power and control are closely monitored, in my view both legitimately and also at times ridiculously.  I will stop making judgement calls on how minor or major an idea I may have is, an present all at officers meetings or directly to the WM.  Time will tell one way or another.



Bloke said:


> (remembering as sec - your job is to administer and support the WM - not run the lodge



Never have I ever tried to "run the lodge".  If running the lodge means putting forward ideas, or trying to provide something for Brothers not so inclined to read up on roles and rules; educating the new guys... then there's a problem, and I would argue it doesn't lie with me.  I have never presented anything to anyone in the lodge (except the cheat sheet for new guys) without bringing it to the current Sec, WM, SW first.  (it never gets further than them).



Bloke said:


> As a Freemason of two years, in the lodge culture you seem to describe - it might be that you are seen as lacking experience or legitimacy...



If I am seen as lacking experience or legitimacy... then asking me repeatedly to become the next Sec was a very poor idea.



Bloke said:


> Sounds like the first thing you need to do is pick your battles, and get the plan to change endorsed by the WM and others...



I haven't asked to change anything though (except in officer's meetings).  The cheat sheet was a description of various roles and duties via the GL.  I have lost every battle to date with a smile.  I am frustrated Brother, that's all.


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## Bloke (Dec 27, 2018)

LK600 said:


> Yes, I will start presenting all ideas at the officer meetings (regardless of how minimal they may be).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I understand. I remember 15 years ago in business, I fought and fought for some documentation which kept getting rejected and shot down by smarter and more experienced people than me; until the right person read it and it became the gold standard; your cheat sheet sounds like a good idea...  I hope someone steps forth and supports you in your lodge... or you can find such a person..


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## Keith C (Dec 28, 2018)

Very interesting conversation.

I will note that our Secretary, who is a PM and has been Secretary for 7 years NEVER distributes ANYTHING to the Brethren without an OK from the WM and it being sent ahead of time for comment to the SW and JW.  It is obvious to the observant that our Secretary is vital in assisting the WM in his role, especially the first few months.  Correspondence, minutes, collecting funds maintaining the membership lists, all very important, but support and wise counsel to the WM are the most important duties, in my opinion.

We do not have a single Secretary in our District who is not a PM.  It isn't a requirement here, but it is highly recommended.

This is just my opinion, but I see distributing something in Lodge, which would appear, coming from the Secretary, as coming FROM the Lodge, without the WM's prior knowledge and consent as a serious breach of protocol.  Again, my opinion only, if this is the case, that you gave out this "cheat sheet" without the WM's knowledge and consent, than if I were you I would sincerely apologize and guard my actions going forward.  NOTHING should happen in Lodge that is not at the Will & Pleasure of the Worshipful Master.


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## David612 (Dec 28, 2018)

So other than being the target of criticism and large amounts of thankless work.. why take on the role?
What makes this worthwhile for you?


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## Warrior1256 (Dec 28, 2018)

David612 said:


> So other than being the target of criticism and large amounts of thankless work.. why take on the role?
> What makes this worthwhile for you?


The Secretaries that I know do it out of a genuine desire to be of service to their lodge. Sometimes it is a thankless job but, in my opinion, the most important job in the lodge.


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## Bloke (Dec 28, 2018)

David612 said:


> So other than being the target of criticism and large amounts of thankless work.. why take on the role?
> What makes this worthwhile for you?


The question was probably not directed at me, but it saved our Warrant. If we are supposed to be giving as Freemasons and interested in spreading our values, the benefit to our lodge was obvious


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## LK600 (Dec 31, 2018)

Keith C said:


> This is just my opinion, but I see distributing something in Lodge, which would appear, coming from the Secretary, as coming FROM the Lodge, without the WM's prior knowledge and consent as a serious breach of protocol. Again, my opinion only, if this is the case, that you gave out this "cheat sheet" without the WM's knowledge and consent, than if I were you I would sincerely apologize and guard my actions going forward. NOTHING should happen in Lodge that is not at the Will & Pleasure of the Worshipful Master



I might agree with you, though I am not the Secretary yet, nor was I for anything I put forward at the Officer's meetings, to include the "cheat Sheet" (which was not brought forward to the officers meeting due to in my mind, I only copied and pasted GL rules and descriptions).  If your description is accurate, and no brother is allowed to contribute to each other regardless if it's only parroting GL requirements... I will have a sincere issue with this.  I did not join Freemasonry to be a warm body with no voice who pays dues.  In regards to the Secretary position, I would agree since the role is what the role is.  



David612 said:


> So other than being the target of criticism and large amounts of thankless work.. why take on the role?
> What makes this worthwhile for you?



I agreed to take on the role to assist the lodge after being asked multiple times (for no more than 2 years).


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## LK600 (Dec 31, 2018)

Keith C said:


> We do not have a single Secretary in our District who is not a PM. It isn't a requirement here, but it is highly recommended.



I would completely understand why.



Keith C said:


> NOTHING should happen in Lodge that is not at the Will & Pleasure of the Worshipful Master.



Of course to qualify,  as long as it is in accordance with GL, the digest, and the by-laws.   I would argue that a WM that rules with such an iron fist to need to control EVERYTHING great or small is a piss poor Leader, but that is a separate subject entirely.


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## David612 (Dec 31, 2018)

LK600 said:


> I would completely understand why.
> 
> 
> 
> Of course to qualify,  as long as it is in accordance with GL, the digest, and the by-laws.   I would argue that a WM that rules with such an iron fist to need to control EVERYTHING great or small is a piss poor Leader, but that is a separate subject entirely.


Personally, I say F it.
If it’s not what you want, not appreciated and a PITA to navigate the lodge can find someone to conform to their way of doing things


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## Winter (Dec 31, 2018)

LK600 said:


> I would completely understand why.



Most lodges I belong to or visit also have a PM in the Secretary position precisely because of the myriad rules and regulations (written and unwritten) they need to navigate.  I also know some Brothers who have never been a WM and performed exemplary as Secretary.  My home Lodge has had the same Secretary for well over a decade and he has never sat in the East. And I would put him against any other Lodge Secretary.



LK600 said:


> Of course to qualify,  as long as it is in accordance with GL, the digest, and the by-laws.   I would argue that a WM that rules with such an iron fist to need to control EVERYTHING great or small is a piss poor Leader, but that is a separate subject entirely.



From what you have said, it doesn't sound like a case of ruling with an iron fist.  More a case of you accidentally taking action without the express permission or consent of the WM.  Now that you understand better how it works you know how to avoid the situation in the future.  We've all made faux pas. 



David612 said:


> Personally, I say F it.
> If it’s not what you want, not appreciated and a PITA to navigate the lodge can find someone to conform to their way of doing things



Your comment serves no purpose other than as an example of how a Brother should not react to this situation.  The Brother conforms to the Lodge. Not the other way around.


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## David612 (Dec 31, 2018)

Winter said:


> Most lodges I belong to or visit also have a PM in the Secretary position precisely because of the myriad rules and regulations (written and unwritten) they need to navigate.  I also know some Brothers who have never been a WM and performed exemplary as Secretary.  My home Lodge has had the same Secretary for well over a decade and he has never sat in the East. And I would put him against any other Lodge Secretary.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If they aren’t going to take the time to teach him the role but get all pissy when he dosnt meet their expectations how is this an his problem, simply knuckleing under for the good of the lodge says that this behaviour is okay- which it’s not, badgering somone into a role in order to fill it is how you alienate new masons.


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## LK600 (Jan 2, 2019)

I thank everyone for their contributions to this.  Understand I love my Lodge and the members in it.  I have taken a great deal of time and effort to educate myself on the Digest and By-laws that govern my Lodge.  What I was not expecting, and to be truthful which frustrated me to no end, is the unwritten, undeclared rules which may have been functionally in place for years.  I would never attempt to put forth ANY new idea or changes to the existing method(s) in place without first taking it to the WM / Officers meeting.  I'm unaware of any reason why I would need the permission from anyone to disseminate information which is ALREADY required by Law from the GL, especially since we are already functioning under the same.  My goal was to educate the newer members in Lodge so they have a basic understanding on how things work.  The more they understand, the more engaged they can be.  

Anyway, it is over and I will not be passing out anything to anyone.  I will follow through on my commitment and be installed on Saturday as Secretary.  Whether the newer members are treated inclusively and/or have a basic understanding of events will be someone else's concern.  I had no intention to bruise feelings or to be perceived (if I was) to be operating independently or counter to anyone's desires.  This has been eye opening, and at minimum a learning experience.  

Again, Thank you all for your thoughts and comments.  I value them greatly.


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## Warrior1256 (Jan 2, 2019)

LK600 said:


> I will follow through on my commitment and be installed on Saturday as Secretary.


The best of luck to you Brother! From out interactions I know that you will do a great job!


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## Bloke (Jan 3, 2019)

LK600 said:


> I thank everyone for their contributions to this.  Understand I love my Lodge and the members in it.  I have taken a great deal of time and effort to educate myself on the Digest and By-laws that govern my Lodge.  What I was not expecting, and to be truthful which frustrated me to no end, is the unwritten, undeclared rules which may have been functionally in place for years.  I would never attempt to put forth ANY new idea or changes to the existing method(s) in place without first taking it to the WM / Officers meeting.  I'm unaware of any reason why I would need the permission from anyone to disseminate information which is ALREADY required by Law from the GL, especially since we are already functioning under the same.  My goal was to educate the newer members in Lodge so they have a basic understanding on how things work.  The more they understand, the more engaged they can be.
> 
> Anyway, it is over and I will not be passing out anything to anyone.  I will follow through on my commitment and be installed on Saturday as Secretary.  Whether the newer members are treated inclusively and/or have a basic understanding of events will be someone else's concern.  I had no intention to bruise feelings or to be perceived (if I was) to be operating independently or counter to anyone's desires.  This has been eye opening, and at minimum a learning experience.
> 
> Again, Thank you all for your thoughts and comments.  I value them greatly.


Brother - the only way to avoid failure and criticism is do nothing, which will ultimately lead to failure.. .so I wish you luck and keep pushing on to try to make your Lodge a better one.


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## CLewey44 (Jan 3, 2019)

Again, I think it was a great idea and it's a shame it's not a requirement to have that information available on election night. Probably wpuld help reduce the "guarantee to progress to the next chair" system we have now.


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## Rifleman1776 (Jan 5, 2019)

Often new eyes see things with more clarity than than those who have become accustomed to the "way we do things here". In business, a smart manager will approach new hires after they have been on the job only a short period of time and ask their view of the situation. Hang in there, the know it alls will continue to be an aggravation. Ignore them and outlive them. Congrats on the new responsibility.


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## Markjr1997 (Jan 6, 2019)

My preacher used to say last words of a dying church "we've always done it this way."

Sent from my SM-G960U using My Freemasonry mobile app


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## Warrior1256 (Jan 6, 2019)

Markjr1997 said:


> My preacher used to say last words of a dying church "we've always done it this way."


Great example!


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## Brother JC (Jan 6, 2019)

Last words of a dying anything...


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## jermy Bell (Jan 10, 2019)

My favourite reply. ( that's not the way we did , do , done,  gonna do) it.

 Why can't it ever be like that's the way ( we are, would like, gonna try ) it ? At times it just seems like your whipping a dead horse.

 In the Times we are facing, it's time to send that dead horse to the glue factory, and start fresh with new ideas and ways to keep and preserve old tradition. Seriously, it it really that hard ?


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## Warrior1256 (Jan 11, 2019)

jermy Bell said:


> In the Times we are facing, it's time to send that dead horse to the glue factory, and start fresh with new ideas and ways to keep and preserve old tradition. Seriously, it it really that hard ?


Totally agree!


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## Winter (Jan 11, 2019)

Markjr1997 said:


> My preacher used to say last words of a dying church "we've always done it this way."
> Sent from my SM-G960U using My Freemasonry mobile app



Just as important is to understand that some things that have always been done a certain way are that way for a valid reason.  All too often the reasoning gets lost because there was nobody to pass it on to in time.  Look how many parts of our ritual are only in there because they have always been, regardless if anyone remembers why.  Innovation can be great, especially when getting away from the ridiculous way most of our Lodges conduct business instead of Freemasonry.  But at the same time, innovations can be damaging.  One day degrees, no memorization or proficiency, artificially low dues, absent education program, etc. At one point in time, every Lodge who is in the negative situation it is today added one or more of these innovations and did something different.


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## Warrior1256 (Jan 11, 2019)

Winter said:


> Just as important is to understand that some things that have always been done a certain way are that way for a valid reason.


I certainly agree. Change just for change sake is useless. If it works, don't fix it. However, when something no longer works or changing times call for different measures the old refrains "That's not the way we do it here" or "We've always did it this way" are no longer valid arguments.


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## Bloke (Jan 12, 2019)

Markjr1997 said:


> My preacher used to say last words of a dying church "we've always done it this way."
> 
> Sent from my SM-G960U using My Freemasonry mobile app


Reading some of the further quotes, it really is a question of wisdom in knowing what to change and what not, while still holding onto the essence of the organisation while using change to create a vibrant future... but what people see as the "essence" will vary.  It is not having a pancake breakfast on the 3rd Sunday of odd months at 9:30 am on Saturday - that's just a tool to meet greater ends..


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## Rifleman1776 (Feb 10, 2019)

My hometown (and where my* former *Lodge is located has a large retiree population. All too often someone in Lodge would jump up and say "You aren't doing it right. That's not how we did it up north".  This has been heard so many times over the years the Lodge has earned a very unfavorable reputation. Just like any segment of the population we have our share of jerks. Ignore them.


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## CLewey44 (Feb 10, 2019)

Rifleman1776 said:


> My hometown (and where my* former *Lodge is located has a large retiree population. All too often someone in Lodge would jump up and say "You aren't doing it right. That's not how we did it up north".  This has been heard so many times over the years the Lodge has earned a very unfavorable reputation. Just like any segment of the population we have our share of jerks. Ignore them.


That is sort of rude and I hear you but masonry often slides towards a more "relaxed" or casual version of itself. Sometimes it's ok to call out when people are doing things incorrectly or in a lackadaisical manner. Depends on the situation I suppose.


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## BroCaution (Feb 10, 2019)

LK600 said:


> Hello,
> 
> So I've been in Freemasonry for 2 years ....



Currently going through this right now Brother. I hear the "bring forth ideas" talk all the time, but everything gets shot down or given an excuse. Very disheartening for the Mason with zeal. Sadly, I dont know the solution yet. It seems like some of the "old guard" has to move on.


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## jermy Bell (Feb 10, 2019)

This was exactly what was happening at the lodge I was raised. And still continues. They do the same pancake breakfast fund raiser , the business meetings are the same every time, and screwing up ritual, then teaching it to what new members they can get to stay. But also will say we need new ideas, we want your input on how to improve things here at the lodge. Then when you offer an idea, it's sit down that's not how we do things. So I demitted to another lodge where everyone has a voice. 9 out of 10 times we will give an idea a whirl. And business meetings are always fun. It's sad that you need to kinda push the old guard to the side to show them that new ideas = growth .


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## jermy Bell (Feb 10, 2019)

But if you can't find what your looking for, there are lodges out there that would love to have you and new ideas.


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## BroCaution (Feb 10, 2019)

As to why i'm spending this Masonic year traveling between PHA and GLoS , seeing how different Brothers operate.

But yes, its very frustrating, especially watching grown men make excuses as to why we arent operating to our fullest abilities. I was raised with 9 men and only me and 1 other Bro show up consistently. I suggest we focus on Masonic Education, and having more social events for Brothers and Candidates to raise money instead of the 1970s' "ticket pandering" mess. Older Bros and PMs agree, but when its time to put up or shut up, nothing changes...still the S.O.S.  I'd rather try and influence change in my Lodge than demit, or change Jurisdictions (GLoS) but sometimes its like beating a dead horse.


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## JJones (Feb 10, 2019)

LK600 said:


> I was told that the GL Officers manual is just best practices and did not have to be followed.



This quote really stuck out to me. If a brother is upset with you trying to follow and share best practices with your lodge then I'd be very curious what type of lodge he wants to be a member of.

Anytime you settle for less than what you believe is the best then you are lowering your standards. This applies to everything in life, not just lodge.



Bloke said:


> I guess a good question is this; what did you learn and how might you introduce such things more effectively in the future?



This.

You really have to know your target audience. It's good that you want to improve your lodge but sometimes you have to take baby steps, especially when the brothers are being obstinant. The good news is that you have plenty of time to ease in new practices unless you just decide that you're tired of being a secretary soon.

I invite you to check out my blog in my signature below if you haven't before, hopefully, some of my content will help you out on your journey.


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## Bloke (Feb 10, 2019)

BroCaution said:


> Currently going through this right now Brother. I hear the "bring forth ideas" talk all the time, but everything gets shot down or given an excuse. Very disheartening for the Mason with zeal. Sadly, I dont know the solution yet. It seems like some of the "old guard" has to move on.


On thing for sure, perseverance is required.


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## Bloke (Feb 10, 2019)

jermy Bell said:


> This was exactly what was happening at the lodge I was raised. And still continues. They do the same pancake breakfast fund raiser , the business meetings are the same every time, and screwing up ritual, then teaching it to what new members they can get to stay. But also will say we need new ideas, we want your input on how to improve things here at the lodge. Then when you offer an idea, it's sit down that's not how we do things. So I demitted to another lodge where everyone has a voice. 9 out of 10 times we will give an idea a whirl. And business meetings are always fun. It's sad that you need to kinda push the old guard to the side to show them that new ideas = growth .


*"So I demitted to another lodge where everyone has a voice. 9 out of 10 times we will give an idea a whirl."*
Good to read Bro !


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