# I am interested in "Square and Compass Clubs" and "Widow's sons clubs"



## cemab4y (Dec 26, 2010)

Does anyone have experience participating in informal Masonic clubs? I did some work in New Hampshire in 1982, and I was introduced to "Square and Compasses Clubs". Many NH lodges close down entirely for the summer. During the summer, Square and Compasses clubs have barbecues, and dinners, and all types of social activities for the Masons and their families. Meetings are OPEN to anyone who is interested. 

In Iraq, we could not have a working lodge, so we set up a Square and Compasses club, so that we could fellowship, and keep track of each other.


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## cemab4y (Jan 6, 2011)

Here is a directive from the GM of Masons in Texas:

-------- GRAND MASTER'S EDICT, WIDOWS SONS MASONIC MOTORCYCLE RIDERSASSOCIATION --------------------------------------------------------- January 6, 2011   To the Masons of Texas:   Grand Master's Edict      I have been advised that some Texas Masons presently belong to anorganization operating under the name of "Widows Sons Masonic MotorcycleRiders Association". At the 2007 Grand Annual Communication this organizationwas denied recognition as an organization to which Texas Masons could belong.      Texas Masons are not permitted to belong to, or be identified with, theorganization known as "Widows Sons Masonic Motorcycle Riders Association"unless and until such organization is recognized by the Grand Lodge of Texas,and to do so constitutes a Masonic Disciplinary Violation. This Edict iseffective immediately. Acts contrary to this edict will result in MasonicDisciplinary action against the violator.      This edict is issued to enforce the 2007 decision of the Grand Lodge ofTexas concerning the "Widows Sons Masonic Motorcycle Riders Association".   Sincerely and fraternally, T. E. "Gene" Carnes Grand Master of Masons in Texas


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## TX_Traveler (Jan 7, 2011)

Anyone got an idea what prompted the last minute edict being enforced?  They reference 2007 when a resolution was PASSED to recognize the riding club but on the last day, after  most people had left, a Brother got up and asked to reconsider the vote  because their patch depicted a woman on a stripper pole.  The vote was receded  and the club was not recognized. The Texas Widows Sons Masonic Motorcycle Riders  Association did not then nor do they now have a patch with a woman on a stripper  pole.  The club however has raised great amounts of money over it’s existence  for Grand Lodge charities.   
G.M. Carnes is working on bad information or someone is deliberately  providing him false information. When the  membership in our jurisdiction is waning, I would hope cooler heads prevail and  something like this can be reconciled so that harmony is kept within the  jurisdiction.


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## tomasball (Jan 7, 2011)

TX_Traveler said:


> G.M. Carnes is working on bad information or someone is deliberately  providing him false information. When the  membership in our jurisdiction is waning, I would hope cooler heads prevail and  something like this can be reconciled so that harmony is kept within the  jurisdiction.


The Most Worshipful Grand Master is enforcing the laws of the Grand Lodge of Texas.  This organization is not recognized, they know they're not recognized, so they shouldn't be flouting the law.  Whether we agree with the decision of the Grand Lodge in not recognizing them is immaterial.  The decision was made, and somewhere I recall swearing that I would be bound by those decisions and do my best to uphold them.  

As to the patch, I agree she's not necessarily a stripper, just a shapely woman in a very tight-fitting leotard.


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## TX_Traveler (Jan 7, 2011)

I suspect the only action is to introduce a new resolution in December to attempt to reverse the edict.  It's a petty though that an entire year will go by with these Brethren experiencing a hardship. I pray that we can find a happy medium so Texas Masonry doesn't lose any fine Brothers to this situation.


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## tomasball (Jan 7, 2011)

It's a pity that for three entire years the Widows Sons chose to act as if they owed no allegiance to the Grand Lodge.  They knew they were breaking the rules, and I can't find any way to fault the Grand Master for deciding not to ignore it.


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## Blake Bowden (Jan 7, 2011)

tomasball said:
			
		

> It's a pity that for three entire years the Widows Sons chose to act as if they owed no allegiance to the Grand Lodge.  They knew they were breaking the rules, and I can't find any way to fault the Grand Master for deciding not to ignore it.



+1


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## rwmoore (Jan 7, 2011)

As Masons, we owe our allegiance to the Grand Lodge of Texas and the sitting Grand Master. We have never done anything contrary to our obligations. Our main goal as an organization has always been to "introduce Masonry to motorcyclists, and motorcycling to Masons", and to that end we have been very successful.  We have had a good number of men who have ridden with us, as our rides and events are always open to anyone, who have become Masons and are now productive members of the fraternity. The Widows Sons of Texas, since 2003, have NEVER claimed to be a Masonic Organization, we are simply Brother Masons who enjoy the camaraderie of their motorcycles and the company of like minded Brothers and friends. We were denied recognition in 2007 , after receiving recognition, due to some falsely presented information concerning our patch which depicts an ashen faced widow, not a stripper on a pole. Why this Brother's vendetta would be so strong as to present a falsehood to GL is beyond me. I was raised in 2005 a Widows Son of the Tribe of Naphtali, and remain one today, as you all were. We do charity work,  Assist our Brothers, Widows and Orphans, and fellowship together ... If that isn't what Masonry is about, then I don't feel we have misrepresented.
Roger Moore
Metropiltan #1182


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## tomasball (Jan 7, 2011)

It's good to get some knowledgeable input from the organization in question.  I'm curious about how this could not be a "Masonic Organization" for several reasons.  First, the name of the group, according to its website, is "The Widows Sons Masonic Motorcycle Riders Of Texas."  Second, the website says, "We are an organization of Master Masons..."  Third, the website says, "All members of the Widows Sons of Texas must be in good standing with his Lodge."  So I think it's easy to see where someone would get the idea that this is a Masonic organization.  Please, what do your by-laws say are the rules for joining?

On a personal note, the contention that the crouching, leotard-clad lady depicted on the patch is supposed to represent a Mason's widow does not inspire my sympathy.

Tom Ball
PM, Mercedes 1010


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## cemab4y (Jan 7, 2011)

( I am not a Texas Mason, so I "Ain't got a dog in that fight"). Nevertheless, I am fascinated by this discussion, and I am keenly interested to see how it plays out. Some years ago, I attempted to start a "Square and Compasses Club", in Kentucky. The only requirement for membership, was an "interest in Freemasonry". Masonic membership was NOT required. I only wanted to have a club of men, who would meet up once a month for breakfast at a local diner, and talk about Masonry. 

A Past Grand Master, found out about our club, and went "ballistic". He called the sitting Grand Master in my state of residence, and the Grand Master, then called me, and told me in no uncertain terms, that I could not have my club. He made some blather, about if someone got into an accident, at one of the meetings, then the Grand Lodge would be sued for negligence. I referred him to the First Amendment of the US Constitution, which guarantees the people the right to assemble peaceably.

We had our club, ate some ham and eggs, and talked about Masonry.


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## rwmoore (Jan 7, 2011)

h4 { margin-left: 0.13in; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0in; text-align: justify; }h4.western { font-family: "Liberation Serif",serif; font-size: 14pt; font-weight: normal; }h4.cjk { font-family: "DejaVu Sans"; font-size: 14pt; font-weight: normal; }h4.ctl { font-family: "DejaVu Sans"; font-size: 14pt; font-weight: normal; }p { margin-bottom: 0.08in; }   Brother Ball,
Our By Laws were amended in 2003 so as not to be in violation of Grand Lodge Law, these By Laws are on record with the GLoT in the Resolution for recognition, and were used against us by the same Brother that took exception with the patch stating that "anyone can be a Widows Son ... Bandito, Hells Angel*, *etc." but isn't this also true about Masonry? If a man can pass the requirements as stated on the petition to join. I have had numerous conversations with so called "Outlaw Bikers", members of the aforementioned Clubs, who were members in good standing with their Lodges. Again, the mission is to "Promote Masonry amongst the motorcycle community, and motorcycling amongst Masons". How is it that this isn't a laudable mission, and what is it that we have done that others feel is so bad? A patch? I would draw your attention to EVERY Shrine unit, Lodge Bowling League, etc. whose only mission is to get together and have fun. 



My only reason to reference the Widow on my patch was to respond to the "stripper on a pole" allegation, and to point out that there is nothing immoral about her. She is fully dressed, and in no way disrespectful to the craft.


Please see the following Article VI of the Widows Sons of Texas by laws.


Respectfully and Fraternally,
Roger Moore


*Article VI MEMBERSHIP*


*Sec.1*

Any man may petition for membership to the Widow Sons. New members are considered “Guests” for not less than six months. They are welcome to attend regular meetings but have no voice in chapter business and do not wear a patch. They must attend all rides and functions unless family or employment obligations will not permit. Guests ride behind the Secretary and Treasurer.


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## tomasball (Jan 7, 2011)

That's useful and interesting information.  Thanks.  It seems to be contradictory to some of the policies stated on the website.  I'm confused over the name of this group.  The website says the name is "The Widows Sons Masonic Motorcycle Riders Of Texas," but you call it simply, "Widows Sons of Texas."  What do the bylaws call it?

I have a useful insight I would like to make privately.  I'm going to try to send you a private message.


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## rwmoore (Jan 7, 2011)

Our By Laws are written as such ...

                     h6 { margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0in; text-align: center; }h6.western { font-family: "Liberation Serif",serif; font-size: 14pt; font-weight: normal; }h6.cjk { font-family: "DejaVu Sans"; font-size: 14pt; font-weight: normal; }h6.ctl { font-family: "DejaVu Sans"; font-size: 14pt; font-weight: normal; }p { margin-bottom: 0.08in; }  *
THE WIDOWS SONS*

*Chapter Organization By-Laws*
*Tribe of Naphtali*

*Written: April 12, 2002*

Approved: April 12, 2002
Revised: September 12, 2003

I will look forward to your message, unfortunately I have never been able to send a private msg due to not having posted enough.
Roger


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## Dave in Waco (Jan 7, 2011)

"All members of the Widows Sons of Texas must be in good standing with his Lodge, own a licensed street legal motorcycle and valid drivers license with the motorcycle designation."  That is taken directly from the Texas Widows Sons website at Texas Widows Sons

That site was linked to from the Widows Sons Masonic Riders Association.  So while your Chapter by-laws don't have it, your parent chapters do.  And the Texas Widows Sons website even states to start a new cha[ter there must be 6 Master Masons.


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## barryguitar (Jan 7, 2011)

If this decision winds up being measured in remissions. How does it benefit Masonry?


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## owls84 (Jan 7, 2011)

Well Bro. Moore this is all great information on the issue. It seems though that the Grand Master has ruled on the issue and really we have a bigger issue now. I understand your frustration, trust me I do and perhaps MasonsofTexas can be used as an education tool for the Masons of Texas. 

I highly recommend a resolution be drawn up for another vote to be taken this upcoming Annual Communications. If you need help we have many people that have been successful in their submissions of resolutions and I bet they can help you. Feel free to use the "contact us" link at the top if that help is needed. Be sure and leave your personal email in the comments so we can respond privately. I for one would like to see the organization be given another chance for recognition if in fact the organization would like that recognition. Could boost membership.


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## rwmoore (Jan 7, 2011)

Bro. Dave ,
You are absolutely correct on most points. "All members of the Widows Sons of Texas must be in good standing with their Lodge" our mission is to promote Masonry, and I have a right to ride with whom I choose. Our Parent Organization can have this in their by laws ... they are recognized by their Grand Lodges, both domestically and Internationally.  The GLoT seems to be the only, or one of the only(I haven't researched this) that refuses recognition(and again, this refusal was based on false information given AFTER they had recognized us). 

It seems that a lot of people who have no knowledge of our group, and all it has done to promote the craft, want to wade in on this matter and that is fine with us ... with Light comes Understanding.
Fraternally,
Roger Moore Sr. Deacon
Metropolitan #1182




Dave in Waco said:


> "All members of the Widows Sons of Texas must be in good standing with his Lodge, own a licensed street legal motorcycle and valid drivers license with the motorcycle designation."  That is taken directly from the Texas Widows Sons website at Texas Widows Sons
> 
> That site was linked to from the Widows Sons Masonic Riders Association.  So while your Chapter by-laws don't have it, your parent chapters do.  And the Texas Widows Sons website even states to start a new cha[ter there must be 6 Master Masons.


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## Dave in Waco (Jan 7, 2011)

Question Bro. Moore, and this is me playing Devil's Advocate in bringing up a question that I'm sure could arise in GL if the Widows Sons submit a new resolution seeking recognition.  Do any of the Texas Chapters use the "Widow" patch in question?  I ask because from looking through the website information, it looks like the Widows Sons have a few patches which their chapters might choose from.  

Personally, the group's recognition doesn't matter to me one way or the other, with exception of if it follows Grand Law.  But I can see by your passion that you believe the group has its place in Masonry, so I am willing to aid a worthy brother.  I am not a PM, so I can not write a resolution, but I can help make sure we cover all the bases in getting it written and easing concerns.


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## tomasball (Jan 7, 2011)

Wait.  Now I'm really confused.  There's a rule or there's not a rule.  Do you have to be a mason to join the Texas Widows Sons or not?

That's the only point that matters.  Doesn't matter if the organization raises the dead, gives ponies to little children, or does any other good thing.  Doesn't matter if everyone at Grand Lodge the day that vote was taken was temporarily insane.  (actually, I think that happens more than we believe).  If you have to be a mason to join, then it is a violation of Article 505-22 to belong to it.

If not, then they should really consider changing their website to eliminate that confusion.


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## rwmoore (Jan 7, 2011)

Bro. Dave,
Good question, All WSoT Chapters wear the Widow except one, which was a decision made by a previous Pres. of the State Grand Chapter.  We are working toward unification under one patch, but that has not yet been accomplished.  The Widow is the original patch of the organization, and the one that Texas chose from the beginning. Texas is the 3rd Charter issued in the organization following Florida and Illinois. We have chosen to remain true to our roots.
Thanks,
Roger




Dave in Waco said:


> Question Bro. Moore, and this is me playing Devil's Advocate in bringing up a question that I'm sure could arise in GL if the Widows Sons submit a new resolution seeking recognition.  Do any of the Texas Chapters use the "Widow" patch in question?  I ask because from looking through the website information, it looks like the Widows Sons have a few patches which their chapters might choose from.
> 
> Personally, the group's recognition doesn't matter to me one way or the other, with exception of if it follows Grand Law.  But I can see by your passion that you believe the group has its place in Masonry, so I am willing to aid a worthy brother.  I am not a PM, so I can not write a resolution, but I can help make sure we cover all the bases in getting it written and easing concerns.


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## Dave in Waco (Jan 7, 2011)

Well Bro. Moore, I can say that GL will most likely continue to have an issue with the original patch.  They are mostly going to argue that portraying a woman in such a fashion harkens too much to a Biker Gang.  I would say that you would need to either change the patch to be successful in gaining recognition from GL or take being a MM out of your official qualifications and make it a "tradition" instead.


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## LRG (Jan 7, 2011)

I hope the WS seek approval and achieve as well. Some wonderful brethren are affiliated with same. But, I really don't care for non masons petitioning a lodge to become a MM just to belong to a riding club or any appendant body.


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## rwmoore (Jan 8, 2011)

Please,
Don't misunderstand me, these Brothers didn't join to ride with the WS, our rides are open to anyone ... Male, Female, Brother or not.  These men became Brothers, and not all became WS, because of their realization that the Fraternity really did have something to offer them. 
Roger Moore





LRG said:


> I hope the WS seek approval and achieve as well. Some wonderful brethren are affiliated with same. But, I really don't care for non masons petitioning a lodge to become a MM just to belong to a riding club or any appendant body.


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## Lynn Graham (Jan 8, 2011)

I am the founder of the Widows Sons of Texas.  It is time for the HONEST truth about this organization and it's history.  Our original by-laws clearly stated that we required our members to be Master Masons in good standing.  During PGM Boyd Patterson's year, I was advised that we were in violation of Article 506.29 of the Grand Lodge Constitution which prohibited any Texas Mason to belong to any organization which predicates it's membership on being a Mason.  Several discussions occurred between myself and members of the Committee on Juris Prudence.  I sought their advice on how we might structure our by-laws in such a way as not to be in violation of Grand Lodge Law.  It is important to point out that we had over 100 members at that time and were 16 months into building our membership.  The long and short of it was that our only alternative was to open our membership to anyone and remove all Masonic references from our by-laws.  Simply, we were abiding by the Constitution of the Grand Lodge of Texas as we had sworn to do in our obligation.  Now, the references made here regarding our website are valid with the following explanation.  The website was constructed prior to the afformentioned incident and is a part of my personal Verizon account.  It has never been updated because for some reason Verizon stopped providing that service and I have never been able to take it down because there is no access available.  Sorry, but I have tried to correct that situation and am stuck at this point.  Moving on to 2007.  I am not certain as to the year but it was either 2005 or 2006, Grand Lodge passed an amendment to Article 225 which provided for organizations to offer Resolutions for recognition which would be kept on a list at the Grand Secretary's office.  At least, this was how it was explained to me.  Seeing this as our first opportunity to get our Masonic by-laws back in place, I conferred with Juris Prudence again on how to prepare the Resolution in "proper form".  The total text of that Resolution was written for me by a member of Juris Prudence.  It is important to state that Juris Prudence authored the Resolution because some of the content of that document is now being used against us.  It was that document which identified us as the Widows Sons Masonic Motorcyle Riders and not the name in our existing by-laws at that time.  Now, that is the name we were hoping to go to should we be recognized through this process.  Lawyers, go figure.  Everyone should be advised that we received recognition on the first vote to that Resolution.  Unfortunately, I became sick and left after the vote.  About two hours later, I was advised that there was a Motion to Reconsider the previous vote and because I was not present to defend the accusations presented, the original vote was overturned.  The two objections were that our bylaws were open to anyone up to and including "the Ku Klux Klan, Bandidos, Hells Angels" etc and our logo depicted a "stripper dancing around a stripper pole".  As to objection number one:  We would have been in violation of Grand Lodge Constitution had our membership requirements been predicated on being a Mason as previously stated.  Number two:  You may argue that our logo is not to your liking; however, it is nowhere close to depicting a stripper dancing around a stripper pole.  One final important point.  In August or September prior to the 2007 Grand Lodge Communication, a group of Masons from Harris County petitioned me for a chapter charter in the Widows Sons.  Long story short, they did not want to abide by the by-laws and rules of the organization and I obviously was not willing to give them free hand to do whatever they wanted to do.  I POLITELY apologized to them and offered my assistance to get them in with another organization which might be able to accommodate their needs.  I began to receive phone calls and emails from this group threatening to discredit us at Grand Lodge in December.  After numerous pleas to my Brothers to not engage in that type of endeavor, I was assured that they would not follow through with their threat.  The rest is history and the derogatory statements at Grand Lodge were made by a member of Holland Lodge.  Take a guess as to what Lodge the majority of this group belonged to.  You got it, Holland Lodge in Houston, Texas.  Now you tell me who is acting against the teachings of the craft.

It is not my intention to disrupt "peace and harmony" within the Fraternity but right is right and the truth is the truth.  Respectfully submitted for your consideration.


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## Crash (Jan 8, 2011)

I have a hard time thinking with our great fraternity we should be happy to see new members. If we are not careful we will be a dead fraternity. We should let all mason's bring in new guys. We let our brothers take care of a blue lodge members, so we need to let the widowsons ensure only good men join the blue lodge. If they choose to join masonary and then become members in the brothers who ride and enjoy the fellowship of the open highways.


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## Dave in Waco (Jan 10, 2011)

Well, as I have advised, I would have a petition ready to for GL in 2011.  I would have good speakers lined up who can prove good facts about the WS.  I would also get a different hosting company to host your website and domain name.  Then change your website DNS servers to point ot the new site that you can update.  Having that old incorrect info floating around out there is going to hurt you when it comes to GL.  After you get the resolution ready, get with some people and try to get them to shoot it full of holes.  Then fix those holes so they can't be used against you at GL.

I would also recommend officially changing the patch.  I know you don't feel it's not offensive, but some are going to take it as such.  Right now, it's a stick they can still beat you with.  What you do after recognition is your business, but then you'll have a record of Masonic service to fall back on.


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## tomasball (Jan 10, 2011)

How many non-masons are members currently?  What would you propose to do with them if you successfully petitioned to be recognized?  

As long as we're talking patches...unless I'm mistaken, another of the WS patches incorporates the official Grand Master's logo from 1999.  Did anyone get permission for that?


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## Lynn Graham (Jan 10, 2011)

Website issues have been corrected.  To make the statement "have good speakers lined up" is an insult and totally disregards the previous facts presented.  Resolutions must be submitted in "proper form" and approved by Juris Prudence before proceeding to the Committee on Masonic Relations.  The Committee on Masonic Relations makes it's recommendation to accept or reject Resolutions before the sponser even presents it to the GL body.  I had a file folder 2 inches thick with all of the relative facts, current by-laws, proposed new by-laws and any and all possible supporting documentation.  I was never asked to present that material to the committee and they made their recommendations with zero input from me.  Is that a fair process?  That not withstanding, lets not forget that we received a favorable vote following my presentation and it is my opinion that outcome was later corrupted by what I consider to be un-masonic behavior.  It appears that some here have the same negative and biased opinions as those who ultimately prevailed.  Ignore the facts, consider the source and continue to resist because you don't now and probably never will be willing to be objective.  If you see a stripper and we see a widow in mourning, I would suggest that you may be the ones with dirty minds and ill intent towards your Brothers.  If you would be disloyal enough to abandon a logo you have supported for over 10 years just because some see it as something different than you, it would be just as believable to me that you would abandon the square and compasses under some unforeseen circumstance.  With all of the problems Grand Lodge needs to be addressing at this time, it seems to be a waste of good time and talent to be paying attention to this.  First thing out of the box, this Grand Master finds it important to make his first order of business an edict against nearly 300 Master Masons who ride motorcycles.  Go figure.


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## owls84 (Jan 10, 2011)

Brother there is a lot of things that we don't understand that GL does but the bottom line is as long as we are masons in Texas they govern what we do masonically. I for one appreciate the insight you and a couple other Brothers have given into the WS. Since there has been an edict I only see two options from this point. You can disregard the edict and be in violation of GL law as a master mason from the Grand Lodge of Texas or you can seek recognition as spelled out in the laws. I know there were some shenanigans the last time but that just shows you can get recognition if you tried. As stated before there are many of us that have experience in getting the political backing on things if you would like to use those resources at Masonsoftexas.  

Keep in mind I don't think the previous Brothers are attacking the WS but rather offering advice and trying to counter any questions they may face if they speak about the edict in lodge. This tends to do wonders on getting word out among the lodges to help your cause. Thank you again for signing up to the site to explain the history of the WS but let us help you achieve the ultimate end by getting that recognition this year in Dec. That is if your organization chooses to do so.


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## Lynn Graham (Jan 10, 2011)

owls84 said:


> Brother there is a lot of things that we don't understand that GL does but the bottom line is as long as we are masons in Texas they govern what we do masonically. I for one appreciate the insight you and a couple other Brothers have given into the WS. Since there has been an edict I only see two options from this point. You can disregard the edict and be in violation of GL law as a master mason from the Grand Lodge of Texas or you can seek recognition as spelled out in the laws. I know there were some shenanigans the last time but that just shows you can get recognition if you tried. As stated before there are many of us that have experience in getting the political backing on things if you would like to use those resources at Masonsoftexas.
> 
> Keep in mind I don't think the previous Brothers are attacking the WS but rather offering advice and trying to counter any questions they may face if they speak about the edict in lodge. This tends to do wonders on getting word out among the lodges to help your cause. Thank you again for signing up to the site to explain the history of the WS but let us help you achieve the ultimate end by getting that recognition this year in Dec. That is if your organization chooses to do so.



True, they do govern what we do masonically but we are not a masonic organization.  Since our by-laws are open to anyone, there is no way anyone can honestly define us as a masonic organization.  And I do consider it to be an attack when someone implies we had an inaffective speaker.  Remember again, we were granted recognition in the original vote!!!! There is a third option.  We can continue on since we are not in violation and wait for Grand Lodge to suspend 100's of Widows Sons Master Masons.  At that time there will be numerous other options become available to us in State and Federal courts.  I personally am up for the fight.  I am a man, free born and sound of mind and members.  I also have the time and the money.  The Grand Master has justified his decision with this single statement.  "Because I can".  That statement has been made to more than one Texas Mason and I find that to be extemely disturbing.  Think what you want but I will not go down quietly.


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## owls84 (Jan 10, 2011)

Well good luck but this site is not the means to do it that way.

I think the staff will agree that we are now beating a dead horse with this discussion. This thread is closed.


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## JTM (Jan 10, 2011)

I support this lock.  Someone will inevitably be offended, but that's not our hope.  MoT doesn't support either side of this, though.


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