# Shriners, Scottish Rite or York Rite



## MikeMay

If you could only join one, which one would you join?  (If your finances/time were limited and you still want to be active in the Lodge)

For those of you who are in several, which would you give up if you could only do one?

I added OES for those who are married and your spouse is involved, but if you want to exclude that and pick another that's okay...I'm just curious.

---------- Post added at 01:46 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:41 PM ----------

This one is hard for me, my grandfather was a Ben Hur Shriner...but I think if I had to chose now, it would be the Scottish Rite...I'm Scottish.  ;-)


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## Ashton Lawson

The Scottish Rite is French :laugh:

This is easy for me. Personally, I have zero interest in the Shrine. It offers no learning or education whatsoever from what I've seen and been told, however, it does offer multitudes of fun fraternal and charitable activities if that's your thing.

I have done the York Rite degrees, and thoroughly enjoyed them, though the York Rite in Texas seems to be struggling to survive from what I've seen so far. 

I am currently going through my Scottish Rite degrees, and they are without question the most enjoyable of anything I've done as Mason. They are very educational, deeply mystical, and filled with layer upon layer of meaning and depth.

If I had to choose one of your three, for me, it'd be the Scottish Rite, without hestitation.


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## Txmason

I am considering either York Rite, Scottish Rite or Shrine. Are York and Scottish active in the community like the Shrine? I'm a photographer and would love to join a group that I can do photography with. Any suggestions?

Best,
Jerry


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## MikeMay

Txmason said:


> I am considering either York Rite, Scottish Rite or Shrine. Are York and Scottish active in the community like the Shrine? I'm a photographer and would love to join a group that I can do photography with. Any suggestions?
> 
> Best,
> Jerry


 
http://www.austinscottishrite.org/arm-in-arm/32o-photography-club

The Austin Valley has a shutterbug club...I know the Scottish Rite is active in the community, I cannot answer about the York Rite.


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## dpteskeys

York Rite for me. I like be part of the degrees personally, instead of sitting at a table for a day watching acting on a stage ( Scottish rite) also most York rite bodies meet at blue lodges, instead of going to a huge stated meeting with alot of other guys who always ask you to join a unit (shrine)


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## RobinWinslett

Many in my Blue Lodge are involved in the Shrine, but for me, I enjoy learning more. So that's why I went to the Scottish Rite. It's been a great decision, I feel, as I've been heartily welcomed and I've found a place where I can continue the quest for light.


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## tom268

dpteskeys said:


> York Rite for me. I like be part of the degrees personally, instead of sitting at a table for a day watching acting on a stage ( Scottish rite) also most York rite bodies meet at blue lodges, instead of going to a huge stated meeting with alot of other guys who always ask you to join a unit (shrine)


 In Germany, the AASR also works the degrees and meet in the same buildings as blue lodges. There is no "stage work", always "floor work" with one to five candidates. I know that of other european AASR too. It seams, that it is typical US development. AASR is of french origin, but what we know as AASR nowadays, is of american origin. And as most european supreme councils were chartered by Charleston, it irritates me, that traditions are that different.

Does anyone know, when the US supreme councils changed from standard degree work to this stage performances of today?


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## AAJ

I am just a member of the blue lodge; I haven't been a Mason long enough to feel i need more. I am sure that eventually I will join both but I am not sure yet which I will join first.  York rite is popular at my Lodge, but I like what I have read on the Scottish rite. I have little interest in Shrine, Grotto, OES, etc.


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## jwhoff

Esoteric Theurgist said:


> The Scottish Rite is French :laugh:
> 
> This is easy for me. Personally, I have zero interest in the Shrine. It offers no learning or education whatsoever from what I've seen and been told, however, it does offer multitudes of fun fraternal and charitable activities if that's your thing.
> 
> I have done the York Rite degrees, and thoroughly enjoyed them, though the York Rite in Texas seems to be struggling to survive from what I've seen so far.
> 
> I am currently going through my Scottish Rite degrees, and they are without question the most enjoyable of anything I've done as Mason. They are very educational, deeply mystical, and filled with layer upon layer of meaning and depth.
> 
> If I had to choose one of your three, for me, it'd be the Scottish Rite, without hestitation.


 
I can't commit on the York Rite as I haven't dabbled to date.  I do see the valued work done by the Shrine and do lend a hand in the fun raising activities.  But my heart is indeed in the Scottish Rite.  These are my interests and this is my home away from (blue lodge) home.


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## Bro. Stewart P.M.

I voted for York Rite. If there was no Blue Lodge, there would be no York Rite in Texas or in many other States here in the U.S.

Of course some of _US_ are lucky enough to enjoy both Blue (YR) and Red (SR) Lodges....


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## Ashlar

My vote goes for York Rite . Though I am a member of both YR and SR , I found the YR degrees by far more beautiful and meaningful . Also there is a few things I do not agree with concerning the SR that I will not go into , I am only a member because of a dying wish of a man I respected , if not for that I would not be a member .

The Shrine , I want nothing to do with for a few reasons and though I am a Past and present WP in the OES and enjoy it , if my Chapter turned in it's Charter tomorrow , I would lose no sleep over it .


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## Traveling Man

At the present rate of attrition this poll may become irrelevant; or maybe it might just be pointing out the problem?


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## Christopher

I'm surprised that the Shrine has had such a bad showing so far.  About half of the active members of my lodge are active in the Shrine and love it.  Maybe more than half.  About half are member of SR and YR but I think I'm the only active member.


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## gnarledrose

I went with Blue Lodge, but my area's in a bit of a pickle-- Scottish Rite meets 50 miles away, York Rite is barely hanging onto our local Chapter/Council/Commandery, and Shrine's not much "fun" when there's only four of you doing all the work.


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## SWATFrog

I joined the York Rite and have enjoyed my experience there. I enjoy being involved in the festivals. I don't know a lot about the Scottish Rite but I've applied for the march 26th Reunion. I'm sure I will enjoy it as much as I have enjoyed my time at York Rite.


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## Bro.BruceBenjamin

This being the case I would focus only on the blue lodge.


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## Beathard

I am all if the above. I like blue lodge and OES. I would probably do shrine next and the Scottish rite. Honestly if I did it all again I would probably do blue lodge and OES only until I retire.


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## RTidwell

I'm going to have to go with the shrine.  But that's only because the FMRC isnt up there and Ben Hur has a motorcycle club.

I am a member of the Shrin, scottish and York rites. But if I only had to pick one that is what it would be.


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## Tony Siciliano

Bro. Stewart said:
			
		

> I voted for York Rite. If there was no Blue Lodge, there would be no York Rite in Texas or in many other States here in the U.S.
> 
> Of course some of US are lucky enough to enjoy both Blue (YR) and Red (SR) Lodges....



This fall I am transferring to NOLA, and I'm really looking forward to witnessing some Red Lodge degrees.

I chose AASR.  I like what it has to offer.


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## Michaelstedman81

Tony Siciliano said:


> This fall I am transferring to NOLA



What is the NOLA you are talking about?  I am thinking that I have heard of it before, but not sure I have seen it in acronym form...lol  I hope I don't come out of this one looking too ignorant..lol


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## Beathard

I had the same question. Nola is a city near Napels, Italy. It is also an abbreviation for New Orleans. No idea what the reference is here.


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## Bill Lins

Beathard said:


> NOLA is also an abbreviation for New Orleans.


 
That is what Bro. Tony's referring to- "red Lodges" is the giveaway.


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## Bill Lins

RTidwell said:


> only because the FMRC isnt up there and Ben Hur has a motorcycle clu


 
FMRC isn't up where?


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## Jacob Johnson

I suppose if I could only choose one, it'd be blue lodge... if i could only choose one appendant body, it'd DEFINITELY be AASR.


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## Tony Siciliano

Yeah, sorry guys.

New Orleans, LA (NOLA). There are only 5 or so "Scottish Rite" symbolic Lodges ("Red Lodges") operating in the U.S. They are all under the jurisdiciton of the GL of Louisiana.

Here's *a little write-up* on it.


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## JJones

I voted York Rite.  I've been a member for several years and I'm just now starting to appreciate the significance of the York Rite degrees.  If blue lodge was a 3 layer cake then the degrees from York Rite would be the icing.


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## SWATFrog

JJones said:
			
		

> I voted York Rite.  I've been a member for several years and I'm just now starting to appreciate the significance of the York Rite degrees.  If blue lodge was a 3 layer cake then the degrees from York Rite would be the icing.



So mote it be


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## choppersteve03

Joining the sr next year,we dont have very much yr here in iowa.


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## chadwalker67

I would really like to join the Grotto especially because they do so much for Special Needs children.  I'm proud to be a member of the OES, Scottish Rite, York Rite and Shrine but next to Blue Lodge it's the York Rite for me.


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## Mac

I've appreciated all the further light the Scottish Rite has to offer, especially in the form of guided self study.


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## jwhoff

Kinda what they call the *money shot* out in the high mountains ... ain't it?  

Brothers I love the Scottish Rite.


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## MikeMay

jwhoff said:


> Kinda what they call the *money shot* out in the high mountains ... ain't it?
> 
> Brothers I love the Scottish Rite.



You keep talking like that I may have to petition......


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## jwhoff

You will!  You're looking too closely for more light.


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## MikeMay

I can't argue with that...


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## Txmason

Jim,

When does the Scottish rite meet? 

Jerry


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## jwhoff

Third Thursday night at Holland 1, starting with dinner at seven and lodge at eight PM.  Dark in August.

Check out the Houston Valley website for calendar.  We have a reunion coming up in September as well. 

If you aren't in, get with me and I'll get you petition. Light is available for those who search.


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## Bro_Vick

I did York Rite, it's a natural extension of the Blue lodge.


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## Wingnut

If you can only do one, Blue Lodge.  Without it there are no others.  If you dont count blue lodge and mean one OTHER... Scottish Rite.  The University of Masonry.  Want more light?  Join Scottish Rite... Lite beer?  Shrine


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## MikeMay

jwhoff said:


> You will!  You're looking too closely for more light.



I did.  Austin Valley had their Lodge of Perfection on Nov 5th.  Now I'm waiting on my second Master Craftsman Lesson to arrive.  Man, talk about drinking from a fire hydrant...that's a lot of light!


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## Timothy Fleischer

I have been a Mason for over 15 years, involved in my hometown Lodge (Salado #296). I have been giving a great deal of thought to the other bodies, but not sure if I am willing to make the commitment in time and/or money.
I may yet join York or Scottish Rite (or both).


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## jwhoff

MikeMay said:


> Man, talk about drinking from a fire hydrant...that's a lot of light!



Yep ... never fails.


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## KSigMason

I'm in both the York Rite and the Scottish Rite, but I am a bigger proponent of the York Rite.


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## OxfordNY175

York Rite for me.  My Lodge,  Chapter and Commandry all meet in the same building , on wh different nights . I catch Council in a town about 30 miles away but the only meet once a month and are really struggling.  The closest SR is about 44 miles away which is too far away for me and here in NY YR is 'floor work' which i prefer


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## jwhoff

Every time I go to New England and upstate New York I get caught in that syndrome.  "Ghee, it's only a few miles away!" 

Before I know it, I've emptied a tank of gas.  I soon learned the way to distinguish city from city and township from township by counting the rock walls.  

Don't make the same mistake here in Texas brother.  A few fellows from a company I once worked with came to Houston and, having an afternoon off, decided they would check out San Antonio.  They gave up at Segiun!  :blink:


Not to worry ... it's an inside joke among us living and dying in the Lone Star State.


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## Txmason

@jwhoff

Where do you go when your in New England? I have a summer home on Cape Cod, MA.


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## jwhoff

Lowell, Lexington, Concord and Sheffield, Massachusetts, Providence, Rhode Island, and Hartford, Connecticut.  Especially loved those little towns of Norman Rockwell fame.  Also the coastal area from Salem through Bar Harbor.  But haven't been up that way since switching job assignments several years back. 

Haven't been out on the cape.  I hear it's nice though.  I do like Boston!


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## Txmason

@jwhoff

If you are coming to Boston this summer let me know perhaps you could come to the cape for a visit and come to lodge two Texans are better than one! It's about an hour from Boston Logan to being on Cape. I petitioned in MA because I met a Shriner soliciting donations at a supermarket and when I got home told my mom and dad and turns out my grandfather and uncle were masons. As were the guy that built our house in Texas and one was a PM two streets over! The PM mentored me and taught me my work. So I petitioned where I thought my grandfather was a mason but turns out he was a member in Southbridge, MA. I got to see his and his brothers signature on the bylaws signed dec 1, 1941. I am a native texan and I did all my degree work here in Texas. 

So let me know if you will be in the area. Hopefully I'll be there in June or July. Lodge in MA is cool. They wear tuxedos for stated meetings very sharp. 

I wish the Masonic license plates were more Texany. 

Best,

Bro. Jerry


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## Billy Jones

I am involved Blue Lodge SR and YR but if I had to chose only one it would have to be Blue Lodge. I know here in Ms you must maintain your Blue Lodge dues to remain active in any of the rites or shrine


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## jwhoff

Txmason said:


> @jwhoff
> So let me know if you will be in the area. Hopefully I'll be there in June or July. Lodge in MA is cool. They wear tuxedos for stated meetings very sharp.


 

That may be a possibility brother.  My niece is receiving her doctorate in voice from Boston University sometime this spring or early summer.  Given a chance in the time of an oil boom, and dates matching somewhat, I'd love to set in lodge with you on the Cape!  

God speed


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## Txmason

Wonderful! We (my parents and I ) haven't left yet. We drive from Texas to Mass it takes about four days. I will certainly let you know when we leave and you'll love the cape and Boston. If you head up that way before I do let me know and I'll be glad to put together a list of non tourist places to eat at and things to see. 

I've always wanted to be a concierge and wish I knew how to get into the business as I love helping people discover new things.


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## Plustax

I am some what surprised also that there are few votes for Shriners. Personally I find it to be more "family involvement/oriented" than my Blue Lodge. I am kinda considering whether to continue thru the chairs (just started) as I enjoy the social family fellowhip with the Shrine. Also, the philanthropy done by the Shriners is awesome. I guess I am becoming more & more disappointed in my lodge with the same group of masons doing all of the work (charities, visits, fundraisers, etc...) for the lodge when there are 200+ members. I know this happens, but that doesn't make it right. I also know that the officers can cause "change", but they also need to work together without the "politics" & "bickering" which I know also exists every where.


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## Txmason

@plustax

The opposite is true for me, while I love the shrine and enjoy being a member often times events are too far away to attend. Instead I attend the shrine club meetings once a month (I'm the secretary), but I want to focus more on lodge and learning so one day I can go through the chairs. 

Don't give up on lodge just yet. Perhaps help to organize events such as a BBQ benefit for the lodge, scholarships for high school students, family night etc  Wait a year before joining the shrine if your a new mason, if not join you never know what you'll find you enjoy. Ask a lot of questions about units, clubs etc. ask to attend a local shrine club meeting. Seek members in your lodge whom are Shriner's. 

If you have any questions feel free to PM me and I'll help as much as I can. 

Best,
Jerry


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## Cigarzan

Just the opposite here.  I've been a Mason long enough to know *I* don't need more, and that's just me.  I joined the Valley of Fort Worth around 2000 but have since demitted.  The Lodge has all I need...to take from and give back to.



AAJ said:


> I am just a member of the blue lodge; I haven't been a Mason long enough to feel i need more.


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## Phre-massen.nash

I have gone YR and SR and if I could choose just 1 then it would be the SR. I love the teaching and the philosophical ideas behind each degree.  But at the same time I do not suggest going for your 32nd until you are a Sir Knight in the Commandery.


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## Bro_Vick

I have chosen one for six years and that was York Rite, this Saturday I will be going to the reunion in San Antonio.  Maybe then I can honestly answer this question. 

I also like that no one marked Grotto, poor Grotto. 

S&F,
-Bro Vick


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## Brent Heilman

I noticed that too. Any thoughts as to why? I am not familiar with it so I really don't know much about it.


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## Bro_Vick

Brent Heilman said:


> I noticed that too. Any thoughts as to why? I am not familiar with it so I really don't know much about it.



There are a couple of reasons, the biggest is that unlike the Shrine the Grotto never required you to go through the degrees of the Scottish Rite which was a requirement until recently of the Shrine, so the Grotto was considered the "poorman shrine".  It doesn't nearly have the face nor the sizable charities of the Shrine and isn't nearly as readily available as the Shrine to most Master Masons.  The main charity is Cerebral Palsy Child, and does contribute yearly.

Apparently the ritual is one of the most extravagant by most Masonic standards, but I have no idea when it was last performed in full form.  The initiation now is very condensed.  There are Grottos in most major metro areas in Texas (not Austin for some reason), and I am sure would be happy for MM to petition. 

S&F,
-Bro Vick


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## Plustax

one of the many reasons I enjoy being a shriner

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djHMu4WysRc&amp;feature=relmfu


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## Michael Hatley

I voted the Shrine as well.  If I had to choose between the Shrine and blue lodge, I'd pick blue lodge, but that isn't the question being asked here.

I'm not a Christian (Unitarian Universalist), and personally speaking a "Christian" arm of masonry isn't my cup of tea, it runs contrary to my views of universality.  I know York Rite isn't just that (I've been pitched by several worthy brothers), but thats just the brass tacks of it for me.  

SR is interesting, but if I am honest I'd pick the Lodge of Research over it if it were down to the nut cutting. 4-32 in a day, enough said.

The Shrine is a different critter.  My wife is interested and involved, I'm in an active unit, and I live very close to a very active Shrine.  They have fun activities constantly.  Not to mention my lodge is physically inside the Shrine building.  We have a large Shriners Hospital in Houston.  No contest.


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## mattcaler

Wow, such an amazing video.  My grandfather was a Shriner, my uncle is a Shriner and I'm sure I will be a Shriner as well.  Some great work being done there.



Plustax said:


> one of the many reasons I enjoy being a shriner
> 
> A Tale of Two Patients: Alissa Perkins and Kate Hickman - YouTube


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## MarkR

Phre-massen.nash said:


> ...I do not suggest going for your 32nd until you are a Sir Knight in the Commandery.


I'm curious why you'd say this. I'm Venerable Master of the Scottish Rite Valley of Rochester, and I find my Scottish Rite involvement to be very fulfilling.  Even if I decided to do any of the York Rite bodies, I have long decided that I wouldn't do Commandery for several reasons.  I don't see where doing Commandery is some kind of prerequisite to doing Scottish Rite.


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## KSigMason

MarkR said:


> Phre-massen.nash said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have gone YR and SR and if I could  choose just 1 then it would be the SR. I love the teaching and the  philosophical ideas behind each degree.  But at the same time I do not  suggest going for your 32nd until you are a Sir Knight in the  Commandery.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm curious why you'd say this. I'm Venerable Master of the Scottish Rite Valley of Rochester, and I find my Scottish Rite involvement to be very fulfilling.  Even if I decided to do any of the York Rite bodies, I have long decided that I wouldn't do Commandery for several reasons.  I don't see where doing Commandery is some kind of prerequisite to doing Scottish Rite.
Click to expand...

Part of me wants to agree with him as that is the route I went, but each member must seek further light in his own way.

A lot of people don't join the Commandery for obvious reasons, but I will say as beautiful as the ceremonies are, they didn't affect my perspective when I went through the degrees of the Scottish Rite.


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## scialytic

Cigarzan said:


> Just the opposite here.  I've been a Mason long enough to know *I* don't need more, and that's just me.  I joined the Valley of Fort Worth around 2000 but have since demitted.  The Lodge has all I need...to take from and give back to.


 
So what happens when you demit from an appendant body? Obviously you aren't going to be going to any functions. Because you've already received that Light along with the "Degrees," can you still refer to (or consider) yourself a "32nd Degree Mason" (not that that's "more" than a MM) if you demitted?

It's quite a conundrum...how do you lose something you've already attained?


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## scialytic

Plustax said:


> one of the many reasons I enjoy being a shriner
> 
> A Tale of Two Patients: Alissa Perkins and Kate Hickman - YouTube


 
Well if I don't join, I'll sure as hell donate! Thanks for making me cry. (I didn't cry...well, maybe a little...)


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## MarkR

scialytic said:


> So what happens when you demit from an appendant body? Obviously you aren't going to be going to any functions. Because you've already received that Light along with the "Degrees," can you still refer to (or consider) yourself a "32nd Degree Mason" (not that that's "more" than a MM) if you demitted?
> 
> It's quite a conundrum...how do you lose something you've already attained?


I don't know how the appendant/concordant bodies view it, but remember that in the Blue Lodge, your vows "can never be repudiated or laid aside."  If you demit from a Blue Lodge and go inactive, you're a Mason who's not in good standing, as opposed to if you've been expelled, in which case you're no longer a Mason.  I would suspect it's the same with Scottish Rite, because if you decide to come back, you'll just have to satisfy some dollar amount for past dues, not go through the degrees again.


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## Bro_Vick

MarkR said:


> I'm curious why you'd say this. I'm Venerable Master of the Scottish Rite Valley of Rochester, and I find my Scottish Rite involvement to be very fulfilling.  Even if I decided to do any of the York Rite bodies, I have long decided that I wouldn't do Commandery for several reasons.  I don't see where doing Commandery is some kind of prerequisite to doing Scottish Rite.



I did the opposite, I just went through the Scottish Rite, and did the York Rite first.  I would say that in regards to the completion of the story of the 3rd Degree, the York Rite is they way to go, as the Scottish Rite tells it differently.  For Commandery, it is completely independent (story line wise) from any of the other degrees, and isn't a pre-req to anything, and really doesn't complete your journey in the York Rite either.

But I wouldn't agree with the statement you need to be in the Commandery before you join the Scottish Rite.

S&F,
-Bro Vick


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## dfreybur

scialytic said:


> So what happens when you demit from an appendant body? Obviously you aren't going to be going to any functions. Because you've already received that Light along with the "Degrees," can you still refer to (or consider) yourself a "32nd Degree Mason" (not that that's "more" than a MM) if you demitted?
> 
> It's quite a conundrum...how do you lose something you've already attained?



Masonry is sort of like the Marines.  There's no such thing as a "former" Marine.  When you demit from any Masonic order you're "on open demit".  It means you can petition for affiliation to rejoin at any time and you're considered in good standing.  A better status that going NPD.  Get Suspended or Expelled and you're no longer in good standing.

To heal being on an open demit you just have to affiliate without any need to make up missed dues.  You just didn't earn service time towards a 50 year pin.

To heal being suspended you do have to make up some amount of missed dues.  To heal being expelled a lot more is involved.


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## stuntman98

I say consistory

PM Pride of Walton #110
SW Sons of Light #77
Spain Military Consistory Orient of Europe
Grand Technician WFOT


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## Brother

I have to say York Rite. But if you are not a christian Scottish Rite would probably suit you better. This is not a knock against Scottish Rite just my opinion.

Senior Deacon Empire Lodge 586
Haggai Chapter 53
Haggai Council 38
KT Sword Bearer McKinney Commandery 34


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## Bro_Vick

Brother said:


> I have to say York Rite. But if you are not a christian Scottish Rite would probably suit you better. This is not a knock against Scottish Rite just my opinion.



I disagree for the mere fact that some of our most active brothers in the York Rite are Jewish, and not Christian.  The belief that the Order of the Temple is some how the finishing of the York Rite is incorrect.  You get the final word in the Cryptic Degrees, not in the Order of the Temple.  I think that men see the Order of the Temple as being the capstone because in a lot of states you have to be a member of he Royal Arch and he Royal and Select Masters.  Really, KT could just require you to be a Master Mason.

Just my $.02

S&F,
-Bro Vick


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## Brother

I agree that the cryptic degrees cap off the blue lodge work. But I have never met a fellow sir knight who was not a devout christian. I don't see how a Jewish person could fulfill the obligations taken during the order of the temple. Please note I have nothing against Jewish brothers, just don't understand how they could make such promises.

Senior Deacon Empire Lodge 586
Haggai Chapter 53
Haggai Council 38
KT Sword Bearer McKinney Commandery 34


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## athelstane839

Masonry masonry it's what your seeking but I advise you to join all branches so you can learn all there doctrines. Remember masonry does not ask you for you religion instead for your belief in god religion has nothing to do with masonry.


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## stuntman98

Yeah.....but york rite is more religious based

PM Pride of Walton #110
SW Sons of Light #77
Spain Military Consistory Orient of Europe
Grand Technician WFOT


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## crono782

I'd suggest Scottish Rite is heavily religious based, but more of a "crash course in comparative religion and philosophy" kinda way. 


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## Txmason

Learn blue lodge first. Scottish rite is great if you are in business. I'd recommend spending at least a year in the blue lodge and try different positions. I have been the Marshal and will be master of ceremonies for the second time around. 

I am a member of SR and Shrine. I suggest the SR first it is a great extension of the blade lodge degrees. If you have any questions just ask. 


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## Nat Geo 357

York Rite without a doubt for me. In the Scottish Rite you can become a 32nd degree overnight, but the journey in York Rite will last a lifetime.


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## crono782

I wouldn't sell the Scottish Rite short. Most reunions when ALL the degrees are done properly will still take a 2-3 days. Granted that's still a lot of degrees in a short time, but the SR degrees are VERY meaty and can easily give two lifetimes of study and contemplation. I love YR as well, but SR is fascinating for me. 


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## Nat Geo 357

I agree I will never sale any Masonic body short, I truly believe both bodies offer something very unique and rewarding for the seeker of more light. 


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## The Widows Son

York Rite is the side I travel on....it should be no difference in YR or SR but time has changed things...Shriner is the fun house


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## perryel

I've travelled AASR thru 32 & YR thru R&SM.  I prefer SR, but in PHA AASR NJ we still get the K--H, which makes a big difference IMHO.


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## Bro_Vick

Brother said:


> I agree that the cryptic degrees cap off the blue lodge work. But I have never met a fellow sir knight who was not a devout christian. I don't see how a Jewish person could fulfill the obligations taken during the order of the temple. Please note I have nothing against Jewish brothers, just don't understand how they could make such promises.
> 
> Senior Deacon Empire Lodge 586
> Haggai Chapter 53
> Haggai Council 38
> KT Sword Bearer McKinney Commandery 34



I never wrote that a member of the Jewish faith could be a member of the KT, I said that you could be Jewish and still be a member of the York Rite, that the Templar degrees while having a prerequisite of being Royal Arch and Cryprtic could easily not be there as the Orders of the Temple don't complete the story.

S&F.
-Bro Vick


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## 219SMack

What are the differences exactly?


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## Heart of Stone

So since I'm a Muslim, it would be wise to join SR and not YR?

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## perryel

Heart of Stone said:


> So since I'm a Muslim, it would be wise to join SR and not YR?
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747



This answer to the question is both challenging and highly nuanced.   Assuming I grasp your underlying premise, I will share that I have met several Muslim and Jewish Freemasons who have chosen not to progress beyond the Lodge of Perfection in the SR or the Council in the YR.

Here's an excellent commentary on the relationships between the 2 "rites" from themasonictrowel.com


EXPLANATION OF THE YORK RITES

by Pete Normand
33rd Degree in the Scottish Rite 
K.Y.C.H. in the York Rite

Please let me add my two cents worth. As both a York Rite Mason, and I am a Past Presiding Officer in all the York Rite Bodies and a K.Y.C.H. (Knight York Cross of Honour), and a Scottish Rite Mason, 33rd Degree and a Board Member of the Scottish Rite Research Society, I have to correct some of the things that have been said here.  

THREE IN ONE:

First of all, the York Rite is not actually a "rite" in the same sense that the Scottish Rite is. That is, the York Rite is not unified under one governing body, but is rather split into various components, each with its own governing body. The first of these, the "Royal Arch Chapter," forms the "Capitular Rite." The second is the "Cryptic Rite." And the third is the "Chivalric Rite."  

CHRISTIANS ONLY:

The third of these, and therefore the entirety of the York Rite, is not open to all Freemasons. It is open to Christian Masons only. However, the Scottish Rite, as a unified Rite of Freemasonry, is open to all good Freemasons of whatever faith. If you live in one of the 15 northeastern states you will be joining the Scottish Rite Northern Jurisdiction. If you live in one of the remaining 35 U.S. states or in our nation's capital, you will be joining the Scottish Rite Southern Jurisdiction.  

CRYPTIC RITE:

The degrees of the Cryptic Rite were actually side degrees of the Scottish Rite that had fallen into disuse. They were then taken over by and worked in Royal Arch Chapters until they were reclaimed by the Scottish Rite. Finally they were relinquished by both the Scottish Rite and the Capitular Rite and were allowed to be worked in separate Councils, becoming what we now call the "Cryptic Rite."  

CAPITULAR RITE:

In the Articles of Union agreed to by the two rival grand lodges in England at their Union in 1813, it stated "that pure ancient Masonry consists of three degrees, and no more, viz., those of the Entered Apprentice, the Fellow Craft, and the Master Mason (including the Supreme Order of the Holy Royal Arch)." You will notice that it does NOT say "the E.A., F.C., M.M., AND the Holy Royal Arch." Rather, it actually "includes" the H.R.A. degree as part of the M.M. degree. This was added to appease the members of the Ancients Grand Lodge who worked the degree in their lodges as a completion of the M.M. degree, whereas the lodges under the Moderns Grand Lodge did not. To this day, the United Gr. Ldg. of England still follows this system, conferring the Royal Arch Degree on its Master Masons. But, it is done in Chapters of the Royal Arch, which are a part of the Supreme Grand Chapter of the Royal Arch.  

THE ROYAL ARCH DEGREE:

The Royal Arch Degree is conferred in BOTH the York Rite and in the Scottish Rite. In the York Rite it sits atop the 4-degree Capitular Rite and is therefore the 7th Degree of the York Rite. In the Scottish Rite, it is the 13th Degree. In the York Rite version of the degree, the degree is set during the building of the Second Temple, that is, the Temple of Zerubbabel, built about the year 516 B.C.E. (although the Degree uses the date 530 B.C.E.), and relates to the discovery of a secret vault beneath the ruins of Solomon's Temple which had been built about 1000 B.C.E. and destroyed by the army of Nebuchadnezzar, King of the Chaldeans, in 586 or 587 B.C.E., thus beginning the period known as the Babylonian Captivity. 70 years later, Prince Zerubbabel returns from the captivity and builds the Second Temple.  

However, the older version of the degree appears to be the Scottish Rite Thirteenth Degree which places the degree not at the end of the Babylonian Captivity in 530 B.C.E., but much earlier, at the building of the original Temple of Solomon, about 1,000 B.C.E. This is why the degree in its Scottish Rite version is called "Royal Arch of Solomon." In this degree, three workmen discover a secret vault within the mount upon which they plan to construct Solomon's Temple.  

WHICH RITE IS OLDER?

Well, that depends on what you mean by older. If you mean, "which Rite, in its present form, with all the degrees together, is older?", then the answer has to be "The Scottish Rite." The Scottish Rite of 33 Degrees came together in its final form in the year 1801. But there were older versions of the Rite that collected together a lesser number of degrees as early as the mid-1700's and prior to 1750: that is, "The Rite of Perfection," etc.  

The York Rite, with all four of the degrees of the Royal Arch Chapter, and the degrees of the Council, as well as the degrees of the Commandery, did not solidify until the late 1800's. As late as 1871, the Grand Council of Massachusetts called a convention of Grand Councils from 14 states and adopted a resolution that Cryptic Degrees should be under the exclusive jurisdiction of Grand Councils and that no Cryptic Mason should be recognized unless he had received the degrees in a Cryptic Council or by the Scottish Rite, and NOT under the authority of a Royal Arch Chapter.  

So you can see, that even as late as 1871, the York Rite had not quite "come together" as a "Rite" by any loose definition.  

KNIGHTS TEMPLAR:

Some misquided Masons join the York Rite, instead of the Scottish Rite, under the impression that this is the only way to "become a Knight Templar." What they don't understand is that the Scottish Rite IS the Knights Templar, and no less a Templar body, and possibly more so, than the York Rite Templars.  

The full name of the Scottish Rite is "The Knights Commander of the House of the Temple of Solomon of the Thirty-Third and Last Degree of the Ancient & Accepted Scottish Rite of Freemasonry." (whew) This IS the Knights Templar, or Knights of the Temple of Solomon, "Militiae Templo Hierosolomitanae."  

Further, there is not just one "Templar" Degree in the Scottish Rite, but several. The 27th Degree is "Knight Commander of the Temple." In the 28th Degree, "Scottish Knight of St. Andrew," the candidate represents a Knight Templar after the suppression of the Order. He seeks admission into the Order of Knights of St. Andrew who are but Templars who have been given refuge by Robert the Bruce, King of Scotland. The candidate is captured by what appears to be the Holy Inquisition of the Church who accuse him of being of the heresy of being a Freemason. But this is only a test, and because he refuses to renounce his previous vows, he is admitted and made a Knight of St. Andrew.  

KNIGHT KADOSH.

But the most important Knight Templar degree of the Scottish Rite is the 30th Degree of "Knight Kadosh." The word "Kadosh" means "Holy" or "separated," as anything "holy" is "separate" and apart from the rest. It refers to the "Kadosh Kadoshem," or "Sanctum Sanctorum," of Solomon's Temple. Part of the degree is set in an asylum of Knights Templar where the assembly decides whether the candidate is worthy to be advanced any further. While standing guard as part of his vigil, he is confronted by the spirit of a deceased knight who advises him to abandon his post and flee with his life. He remains steadfast and is eventually rewarded.  

As a side note, just to show the pedigree of the name "Kadosh" as part of the Templar orders of the Scottish Rite, in 1791, a controlling body of the order in England was known officially as "the Grand Elect Knights Templar Kadosh and Holy Sepulchre of St. John of Jerusalem, Palestine, Rhodes and Malta." Two years later, the Duke of kent, Grand Patron of the Order, name Thomas Dunckerly Grand Master of the Knights of Rosy Cross, Knights Kadosh, and Knights Templar."  

Many would argue that the Scottish Rite 18th Degree, "Knight Rose Croix," is a Templar Degree in disguise. I would agree.  

Nevertheless, the structure of the Supreme Council, the governing body of the Rite, is that of the Knights Templar. That is why the presiding officer is called "The Grand Commander." The Scottish Rite Caps are in fact caps of knighthood. They are the last remaining vestige of chivalric regalia. And, I have to tell you, its a lot easier to wear than a Knights of Columbus uniform.  

I have to advise you that in the Scottish Rite you get more degrees and more "bang for your buck." But, both are wonderful and neither should be avoided.



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## part on the square

I belong to a lodge in Louisiana.  I am a Mason, Shriner, Scottish Rite, and very recently a York Rite Mason.  Each group has its great benefits.  I am a third generation Master Mason,  I was fortunate enough to go through the York Rite with both my father and grandfather.  From a Christian standpoint the York Rite is very informative and fulfilling.  The Scottish Rite degrees were also very interesting. I find for lore charitable reasons the Shrine can not be beat.  I have a great wife who stands by me and supports and participates in my many Masonic endeavors.  She enjoys the Shrine more,  but all four give me a very unique heart filled satisfaction that I am making a difference.  It's all about charity and these four practice it very well.  


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## Txmason

Our shrine dues are going up from $86.00 to $115 (over the course of 5years) I don't know it's getting expensive 


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## darrel hearn

Shrine dues going up. Lots of folks on fixed income are already struggling. Hope we don't loose any more members.

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## Bill Lins

Welcome aboard, Bro. Darrel!


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## darrel hearn

Thanks for the invite!!!

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## Brother_Bob

As with all things my brother but at least in following your obligation you know the added dues will go to a worthy cause.

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## malkirn

Here in the United Kingdom Craft dues are averaging Â£120.00 per annum ($190.00) so when you say the dues are going up to $115, I would welcome that figure over here in ole blighty! 


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## MarkR

malkirn said:


> Here in the United Kingdom Craft dues are averaging Â£120.00 per annum ($190.00) so when you say the dues are going up to $115, I would welcome that figure over here in ole blighty!
> 
> 
> My Freemasonry



As it should be. Our dues are less than men spend on coffee, but nothing gets people more upset than proposing to raise dues. A brother once asked "when are we going to stop raising dues?" I answered "when the property taxes, heating bills, electric bills, insurance costs, etc. stop going up."

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## Brother JC

If I'm accepted into the lodge I'm presently petitioning, my dues there will be $300 for 2014.


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## Pscyclepath

Being in Arkansas, the Shrine is clandestine for me, so I have no hopes or ambitions there.  I've done both York and Scottish Rites, and am active in the Royal Arch chapter, though not so much in the Council or Commandery, and I am strictly a knife-&-fork Prophet.   Of them all, I guess I personally get a little more out of the Scottish Rite due to my involvement with the Valley's kitchen committee and the brothers in and around that little group.

My heart belongs to my blue lodge, and the fraternal activities in both the Chapter and the Consistory keep me coming back.


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## tldubb

Bro.BruceBenjamin said:


> This being the case I would focus only on the blue lodge.



I agree with you frat! Blue house is the foundation of all under the fraternal umbrella. 

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## Txmason32

Try square where are you located ... it's crazy when we say your dues are 100 the candidate always says "a month" and is shocked when we say no a year lol . I love the blue lodge and the chapter . I have fun in the shrine but it's not why I am a Mason . I am endowed  in SR but it did not catch my interest like the YR has . I still have the council and commandry degrees to go thru but so far really like the way it all ties in and makes me want to learn and study more 

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## Brother JC

Txmason, I'm in California now, though I was Raised (and raised) in New Mexico.


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## Warrior1256

York Rite for me. I'm a new MM and am in the process of joining the YR.


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