# How serious do you take your obligations?



## CLewey44 (Dec 12, 2016)

As EAs, we learn a lot of things, but one of the more important things we swear an obligation to is not to reveal any of the secrets Masonry from this degree or any degree we may hereafter receive. One of those things is the obligation to (summarize) not write the secrets of Masonry in any way that would allow non-Masons to learn the secrets of Masonry.

I realize all of the secrets are already out there, but I'm a little confused as to why an actual, presumably active, Master Mason would post all over the internet these secrets and then seemingly think it's ok to do so. If everyone had the idea that putting it on the internet is not 'writing' it or communicating it in some form or fashion, then we'd really have nothing as a fraternity to hold on to that is unique to us.


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## Glen Cook (Dec 12, 2016)

How "seriously" do I take my obligation?  Very. However, the OP begs the question: what is a secret? What may be considered a secret in your  jurisdiction may not be so considered in mine.


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## MarkR (Dec 13, 2016)

I, too, would be interested to know what you consider to be divulging of secrets, but we have the conundrum that you cannot tell us that without yourself revealing what you consider to be secrets.  Catch 22!

In my jurisdictions, they aren't many, and I've not seen them revealed on here, if that's what you're talking about.


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## Glen Cook (Dec 13, 2016)

MarkR said:


> ....Catch 22!
> 
> .....


You've put me in the mind to re-read it.


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## Companion Joe (Dec 13, 2016)

Whether or not any information is out there is irrelevant. I promised that _I _wouldn't discuss it.


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## coachn (Dec 13, 2016)

MarkR said:


> I, too, would be interested to know what you consider to be divulging of secrets, but we have the conundrum that you cannot tell us that without yourself revealing what you consider to be secrets.  Catch 22!
> 
> In my jurisdictions, they aren't many, and I've not seen them revealed on here, if that's what you're talking about.


Almost everywhere, Specific Words, Signs and Grips are considered "Secret" by Freemasons, but they are only things members promised not to reveal under specific conditions.  They are not secrets;  Never were;  Never will be.


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## dfreybur (Dec 13, 2016)

The hard part is defining what the secrets are.  There is far more to that question than what happens around the altar during our degrees.  Those have been published so for us in this era we promised to not help outsiders look it up.  Seems underwhelming but it is part of what I do.

What about the other secrets, though?  Some are the type we can shout them from the rooftops and they remain secret.  We treat each other as kin, no method.  There are a lot of these where it might be possible to get them without attending lodge regularly but it's equally possible to attend lodge regularly and still not get them.


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## Levelhead (Dec 13, 2016)

I take my obligations VERY seriously.

Sometimes ill mentally revisit dealings I've had with other masons and i see how serious i take mine by realizing how they don't understand theirs.


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## David Duke (Dec 13, 2016)

Companion Joe said:


> Whether or not any information is out there is irrelevant. I promised that _I _wouldn't discuss it.



Exactly, I don't know what others may reveal but I know what I  promised not to and I intend to keep my promises. 


David Duke
Secretary 
Sam B Crawford #1418
New Caney,  TX


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## CLewey44 (Dec 13, 2016)

Yea I do too take them seriously and bothers me people post websites on here that have every single thing most of us keep 'secret'. I'm pretty sure all modes of recognition are secrets, tks, sgs, dgr, and psw, SWOAMM, lns pw etc. It's a little careless and don't know why anyone would think it's ok.


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## JMartinez (Dec 15, 2016)

I take my obligation extremely seriously. I joined masonry at 18. I'm now WM. As a young Mason I've noticed some need to take there obligations a lot more seriously. 


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## Matt S (Dec 16, 2016)

bothers me people post websites on here that have every single thing most of us keep 'secret'. I'm pretty sure all modes of recognition are secrets, tks, sgs, dgr, and psw, SWOAMM, lns pw etc. It's a little careless and don't know why anyone would think it's ok.[/QUOTE]

I feel like I know what and who your talking about and I feel to some degree the same as you.


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## Dontrell Stroman (Dec 16, 2016)

I take mine very seriously. I consider myself a "Ole school" mason. I try to govern myself the way traditional masons did. 

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## Dontrell Stroman (Dec 16, 2016)

Very good thread brother. Not to get off topic, but there has been something on my mind. Any other brothers tired of seeing masons act like its a college fraternity ?

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## CLewey44 (Dec 16, 2016)

Travelling Man91 said:


> Very good thread brother. Not to get off topic, but there has been something on my mind. Any other brothers tired of seeing masons act like its a college fraternity ?
> 
> Sent from my LG-LS997 using My Freemasonry mobile app



I'm not sure how I'd feel about that. Never came across it yet. It may be a bit off putting. I've heard the Elks had turned a lot of people off with the partying and excessive drinking etc. I've never been to an Elks event so if I'm wrong about them, I apologize.  Fun is good and times change but no need for breaking our goal of temperance.


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## JJones (Dec 17, 2016)

I take my obligations very seriously.

I swore an oath before God and my brethren, that's a pretty significant in my mind.



coachn said:


> Almost everywhere, Specific Words, Signs and Grips are considered "Secret" by Freemasons, but they are only things members promised not to reveal under specific conditions. They are not secrets; Never were; Never will be.



Those are definitely secret, I'll agree. That being said, I feel as though the catechisms are meant to be kept secret as well. I don't know of any place that states it's secret, unless it's in the law book for my jurisdiction, but the memory work feels as though it's part of what makes Freemasonry what it is.


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## CLewey44 (Dec 17, 2016)

JJones said:


> I take my obligations very seriously.
> 
> I swore an oath before God and my brethren, that's a pretty significant in my mind.
> 
> ...



Yes, I think it's a part of it for sure.


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## jermy Bell (Dec 17, 2016)

Are there any real secrets?  Everything is on the Internet.


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## CLewey44 (Dec 17, 2016)

jermy Bell said:


> Are there any real secrets?  Everything is on the Internet.


Of course they're on the internet but as Masons, is it ok to post whatever secrets on the internet or anything? It is not.


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## David Duke (Dec 17, 2016)

jermy Bell said:


> Are there any real secrets?  Everything is on the Internet.



That is not the point, I (we) promised to not revel them. If that promise is broken can we be trusted not to break our other promises or obligations? I for one intend to uphold my obligations. 


David Duke
Secretary 
Sam B Crawford #1418
New Caney,  TX


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## JJones (Dec 17, 2016)

jermy Bell said:


> Are there any real secrets?  Everything is on the Internet.





Companion Joe said:


> Whether or not any information is out there is irrelevant. I promised that _I _wouldn't discuss it.



+1


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## Brother JC (Dec 18, 2016)

In theory I'm supposed to be able to trust my Brethren with something as important as my life. Sadly I can't trust some of them with something as simple as a handshake.


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## JJones (Dec 18, 2016)

Brother JC said:


> In theory I'm supposed to be able to trust my Brethren with something as important as my life. Sadly I can't trust some of them with something as simple as a handshake.



This is true in many lodges. I personally believe this is partially due to the fact that we do not guard the west guard diligently enough.


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## CLewey44 (Dec 18, 2016)

JJones said:


> This is true in many lodges. I personally believe this is partially due to the fact that we do not guard the west guard diligently enough.



You hit the nail on the head there Bro. Jones.


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## Glen Cook (Dec 18, 2016)

CLewey44 said:


> You hit the nail on the head there Bro. Jones.


We sometimes get pigeon holed in the fraternity. One of mine is our disciplinary process. I was informed  third hand this last week of a member who had suffered a criminal conviction. I checked. This was correct, but he actually had three convictions, and  a felony, and jail time, all in about the last year.  I then had to take official action because the local body  hadn't bothered, even though they were aware of rumours of such. 

Sometimes we leave the west gate bangin' open in the wind. Folks may need to be helped back out through it.


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## CLewey44 (Dec 18, 2016)

Glen Cook said:


> We sometimes get pigeon holed in the fraternity. One of mine is our disciplinary process. I was informed  third hand this last week of a member who had suffered a criminal conviction. I checked. This was correct, but he actually had three convictions, and  a felony, and jail time, all in about the last year.  I then had to take official action because the local body  hadn't bothered, even though they were aware of rumours of such.
> 
> Sometimes we leave the west gate bangin' open in the wind. Folks may need to be helped back out through it.



Lolol, true.


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## JJones (Dec 18, 2016)

Glen Cook said:


> We sometimes get pigeon holed in the fraternity. One of mine is our disciplinary process. I was informed  third hand this last week of a member who had suffered a criminal conviction. I checked. This was correct, but he actually had three convictions, and  a felony, and jail time, all in about the last year.  I then had to take official action because the local body  hadn't bothered, even though they were aware of rumours of such.
> 
> Sometimes we leave the west gate bangin' open in the wind. Folks may need to be helped back out through it.



Bro Cook, what actions can a lodge take in that situation in your jurisdiction?


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## Glen Cook (Dec 18, 2016)

JJones said:


> Bro Cook, what actions can a lodge take in that situation in your jurisdiction?


Referring to Utah, felonies aren't an automatic expulsion as in some jurisdictions. The GM can take suspension action until such time as a Masonic trial is held. Utah places requirements on certain lodge officers to take some action on the matter when such an issue comes to their knowledge.


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## fmasonlog (Dec 19, 2016)

CLewey44 said:


> As EAs, we learn a lot of things, but one of the more important things we swear an obligation to is not to reveal any of the secrets Masonry from this degree or any degree we may hereafter receive. One of those things is the obligation to (summarize) not write the secrets of Masonry in any way that would allow non-Masons to learn the secrets of Masonry.
> 
> I realize all of the secrets are already out there, but I'm a little confused as to why an actual, presumably active, Master Mason would post all over the internet these secrets and then seemingly think it's ok to do so. If everyone had the idea that putting it on the internet is not 'writing' it or communicating it in some form or fashion, then we'd really have nothing as a fraternity to hold on to that is unique to us.



I'm a recent fellowcraft and am very disappointed. What I've worked so hard for has been thrown out. I know of the website and it should be taken down. 


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## Glen Cook (Dec 19, 2016)

fmasonlog said:


> I'm a recent fellowcraft and am very disappointed. What I've worked so hard for has been thrown out. I know of the website and it should be taken down.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using My Freemasonry


I've not seen any new websites.


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## fmasonlog (Dec 19, 2016)

Glen Cook said:


> I've not seen any new websites.



Would you like me to message you the website? 


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## Glen Cook (Dec 19, 2016)

fmasonlog said:


> Would you like me to message you the website?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using My Freemasonry


Sure. Thanks.


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## fmasonlog (Dec 19, 2016)

Glen Cook said:


> Sure. Thanks.



Sent. What are your thoughts? 


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## Glen Cook (Dec 19, 2016)

Ahh, yes.  Been up for over a decade. 

No, I don't approve of the posting. I don't approve of the clandestine Masons behind it.  I don't approve of citing to an anti group. I don't like green eggs and ham. 

Exposes have been around for, oh, about 300 years. I'm less sanguine about them.


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## fmasonlog (Dec 19, 2016)

Glen Cook said:


> Ahh, yes.  Been up for over a decade.
> 
> No, I don't approve of the posting. I don't approve of the clandestine Masons behind it.  I don't approve of citing to an anti group. I don't like green eggs and ham.
> 
> Exposes have been around for, oh, about 300 years. I'm less sanguine about them.



Why do we not take it down... I haven't got the power or I would. 


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## David Duke (Dec 19, 2016)

fmasonlog said:


> Why do we not take it down... I haven't got the power or I would.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using My Freemasonry



Simply put freedom of speech, who ever is posting it that is their right, I don't have to like it.

Once again I say it is irrelevant what someone else does, it is what I do that enables me to polish my ashlar. 


David Duke
Secretary 
Sam B Crawford #1418
New Caney,  TX


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## Kenneth NC Mason (Dec 19, 2016)

I took an obligation I wouldn't discuss the lectures, floor work , or anything related to our Ritual in our GL. The modes of recognizing a brother aren't really secret as much as they are " sacred " . What I mean is by those means of identification we assume a brother will be truthful , not lie , and have our back. It's a sacred trust we are charged to uphold ..

What makes it tricky is that the York Rite Chapter Ritual for my state is in PDF format and is in plain English , which means anyone could easily access it . Not the case with ciphers .. 




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## CLewey44 (Dec 19, 2016)

Maybe then our obligations are a little hazy and need to specify what exactly we will forever conceal and never reveal.


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## Glen Cook (Dec 19, 2016)

Kenneth NC Mason said:


> I took an obligation I wouldn't discuss the lectures, floor work , or anything related to our Ritual in our GL. The modes of recognizing a brother aren't really secret as much as they are " sacred " . What I mean is by those means of identification we assume a brother will be truthful , not lie , and have our back. It's a sacred trust we are charged to uphold ..
> 
> What makes it tricky is that the York Rite Chapter Ritual for my state is in PDF format and is in plain English , which means anyone could easily access it . Not the case with ciphers ..
> 
> ...


One of the Provincial Grand Chapters in England has the ritual on their website, omitting some words.


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## Glen Cook (Dec 19, 2016)

CLewey44 said:


> Maybe then our obligations are a little hazy and need to specify what exactly we will forever conceal and never reveal.


 And when we decide differently on what constitutes secret work, our obs will differ even more?


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## Bloke (Dec 20, 2016)

I used to get upset about ritual being posted, but the reality is, you can read it ad nauseum but it's gotta be experienced... Now days, I love finding ritual on line from reliable sources for comparative study.... but it still needs to be experienced to understand it.


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## Warrior1256 (Dec 20, 2016)

Companion Joe said:


> Whether or not any information is out there is irrelevant. I promised that _I _wouldn't discuss it.


Same here.


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## dfreybur (Dec 20, 2016)

Bloke said:


> I used to get upset about ritual being posted, but the reality is, you can read it ad nauseum but it's gotta be experienced...



To me the experiential parts are other than the ritual itself.  The teamwork of practicing the ritual happens independent of the content of the ritual.  The direct personal contact happens independent of the content of the ritual.  The fellowship with eminent men of all walks of life happens independent of the ritual.

It's sort of like a box from Amazon.  The cardboard box is the ritual.  It's the part the outsiders see.  Then there are the knurdles or plastic bubbles or other cushioning that are the teamwork at practice that the person who opens the box sees.  Then there is the gift in its own layers of packing.  And finally at the center is the unseen gift that is the secret.

Do others use the word knurdles for the plastic peanuts?  I've use the word for so long I've forgotten where I learned it.


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## CLewey44 (Dec 20, 2016)

dfreybur said:


> To me the experiential parts are other than the ritual itself.  The teamwork of practicing the ritual happens independent of the content of the ritual.  The direct personal contact happens independent of the content of the ritual.  The fellowship with eminent men of all walks of life happens independent of the ritual.
> 
> It's sort of like a box from Amazon.  The cardboard box is the ritual.  It's the part the outsiders see.  Then there are the knurdles or plastic bubbles or other cushioning that are the teamwork at practice that the person who opens the box sees.  Then there is the gift in its own layers of packing.  And finally at the center is the unseen gift that is the secret.
> 
> Do others use the word knurdles for the plastic peanuts?  I've use the word for so long I've forgotten where I learned it.



Lol, love the analogy. Funny how the oddest things can strike such a great comparison. I'm assuming you've been getting plenty of Amazon boxes lately.


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## Brother_Steve (Dec 20, 2016)

CLewey44 said:


> Maybe then our obligations are a little hazy and need to specify what exactly we will forever conceal and never reveal.


It does.

That I have, am about to R and hereinafter blah.

The "Have" is the step and how your hand(s) were placed upon the bible depending on the degree you're on as you're being instructed before taking the oath or obligation for that particular degree.

The blah is "since you have not been instructed yet, the SW will answer for you."

This is where you are instructed on the word(s) and grip(s)...again, degree dependent.

The rest is jurisdictional by constitution as to what is secret.


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## CLewey44 (Dec 20, 2016)

Brother_Steve said:


> It does.
> 
> That I have, am about to R and hereinafter blah.
> 
> ...




I totally agree but some people are questioning 'what is a secret in Masonry' etc. I know it's sort of jurisdictional as you stated but I think there are pretty much some that are the same across the board.  Definitely mds o rcg, dgd, and so fourth.  As for not worrying about what others do, I would question that by doing nothing, are we allowing those secrets to be revealed maybe? Sure, we as individuals maybe aren't but putting up zero resistance(at least when within our power to prevent) is only a step or two off from doing it ourselves really.  Idk, just a thought.


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## Glen Cook (Dec 21, 2016)

Brother_Steve said:


> It does.
> 
> That I have, am about to R and hereinafter blah.
> 
> ...


Actually, most of that is jurisdictional


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## Bloke (Dec 21, 2016)

dfreybur said:


> ....Do others use the word knurdles for the plastic peanuts?  I've use the word for so long I've forgotten where I learned it.



Never heard of that one bro..


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## Glen Cook (Dec 21, 2016)

Bloke said:


> Never heard of that one bro..


Again with discussing the secret work in public?


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## Bloke (Dec 21, 2016)

Glen Cook said:


> Again with discussing the secret work in public?



Yikes ! Did i just get excluded ! ? !!...  ... ..... .... I think I've heard about that one, isn't it from the Royal Order of Zorro ? I am not a member and hence not bound by the ob


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## fmasonlog (Dec 23, 2016)

And I don't even think we should say on public threads: "all secrets are out"


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## the_widows_son (Jan 31, 2017)

Travelling Man91 said:


> Very good thread brother. Not to get off topic, but there has been something on my mind. Any other brothers tired of seeing masons act like its a college fraternity ?
> 
> Sent from my LG-LS997 using My Freemasonry mobile app


That is a very good point brother. Somewhere along the line things got blurred. Because did not most if not all the BGL organizations come from or were created by Brothers? I'm not in any BGLs if there is any brother on here that is in a BGL (Black Greek Letter) could they please elaborate. I was at a Black and White Ball last year and a brother who was a principle officer got on the dance floor and started "stomping the yard " while in his black and whites. Mind you the Grand Lodge officers were present. When I talked to him off line about his Frat, he was very proud of it and should be Im sure it took alot of fortitude and preserverance to be made one. However he didnt like the fact when I reminded him that it was the very oraganization that you are representing yourself as a principle officer that birthed your Frat. Do you brother know of any brothers that hold their fraternity in equal stature? If they do thats their prerogative I just feel that we chose the more noble and glorious path and we shouldnt be wearing or displaying jr. Frat stuff at a Masonic gathering. IMHO

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## Dontrell Stroman (Jan 31, 2017)

the_widows_son said:


> That is a very good point brother. Somewhere along the line things got blurred. Because did not most if not all the BGL organizations come from or were created by Brothers? I'm not in any BGLs if there is any brother on here that is in a BGL (Black Greek Letter) could they please elaborate. I was at a Black and White Ball last year and a brother who was a principle officer got on the dance floor and started "stomping the yard " while in his black and whites. Mind you the Grand Lodge officers were present. When I talked to him off line about his Frat, he was very proud of it and should be Im sure it took alot of fortitude and preserverance to be made one. However he didnt like the fact when I reminded him that it was the very oraganization that you are representing yourself as a principle officer that birthed your Frat. Do you brother know of any brothers that hold their fraternity in equal stature? If they do thats their prerogative I just feel that we chose the more noble and glorious path and we shouldnt be wearing or displaying jr. Frat stuff at a Masonic gathering. IMHO
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930P using My Freemasonry mobile app


I understand what you are saying. Brothers ordering paddles, letter jackets, embroidering SPR of when ever they were raised on the jacket etc. Instead of saying initiated they say "pledged." dont even get me started on that. But yet, many wonder why PHA GLS are looked down upon. In no way am I speaking on any one particular lodge. Just stating what I have observed with some of the brethern.


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## Bloke (Jan 31, 2017)

Travelling Man91 said:


> I understand what you are saying. Brothers ordering paddles, letter jackets, putting on the jacket when they "pledged" dont even get me started on that. Its crazy brother.



We don't have college fraternities so their  culture does not  creeep into our lodges. The sort of semi-hazing and jokester behaviour is rare in our lodges and generally not well received...


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## the_widows_son (Jan 31, 2017)

Travelling Man91 said:


> I understand what you are saying. Brothers ordering paddles, letter jackets, embroidering SPR of when ever they were raised on the jacket etc. Instead of saying initiated they say "pledged." dont even get me started on that. But yet, many wonder why PHA GLS are looked down upon. In no way am I speaking on any one particular lodge. Just stating what I have observed with some of the brethern.


Exactly Bro, most GLs write the edicts, but you still have some rogue lodges that still wanna do those type of things such as consuming wages and what not. Fortunately I was made in a lodge that didnt play that stuff. But Im wondering where does it come from you have a lot of brothers who were BGL first then became Masons do you think that might be where some of these practices originate?

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## Canadian Paul (Jan 31, 2017)

Isn't the whole point of the 'secrets' the fact that we have, _as a test of our fidelity_, obligated ourselves not to disclose them? In other words, it is not the secrets themselves that are important, but whether we can keep our sworn word.


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## acjohnson53 (Jan 31, 2017)

The internet doesn't tell the real story.....ummmm
I take my obligation very serious........


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## acjohnson53 (Jan 31, 2017)




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## Tyler Atkinson (Feb 1, 2017)

What are your thoughts on masonic tattoos?


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## CLewey44 (Feb 1, 2017)

Tyler Atkinson said:


> What are your thoughts on masonic tattoos?



I think they are ok personally if done tastefully. I think too, subtle is better than a big full canvassed back tat lol.


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## Carl_in_NH (Feb 1, 2017)

Not a fan of tattoos myself. I know of a brother that spent a hefty amount on a tattoo - nice ink, but the brother wasn't in a position to spend that kind of money on a tattoo. How do I know? Because he couldn't pay his dues due to other financial obligations. After years and years of non payment, we had to suspend him for NPD. He never even tried to make arrangements to pay part of his dues - but showed that tattoo to everyone that would look. Good counsel fell on deaf ears with this brother.

A classic case of not subduing ones passions; he loved the Masonic ink, but lost sight of his obligation to pay his dues to the lodge. Eastwood was right; 'A man has to know his limitations'.


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## Brother JC (Feb 1, 2017)

Tyler Atkinson said:


> What are your thoughts on masonic tattoos?



A personal choice that I feel has no bearing on my obligations.


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## jermy Bell (Feb 1, 2017)

Um,are we not to judge our brothers by their appearance,  but by their actions ? I have a full sleave, and several other tats.  Most  the ones I sit in lodge with are way older brothers. They don't seem to care, but how I conduct my self as a man and a mason.


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## Glen Cook (Feb 1, 2017)

jermy Bell said:


> Um,are we not to judge our brothers by their appearance,  but by their actions ? I have a full sleave, and several other tats.  Most  the ones I sit in lodge with are way older brothers. They don't seem to care, but how I conduct my self as a man and a mason.


Sooo, I remember sitting in court next to another attorney, waiting for our cases to be called. Defendant walks up to the podium. Bald. Penis tattooed on the back of his head. 
Sometimes, appearances do tell us something about the individual


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## SimonM (Feb 2, 2017)

Glen Cook said:


> Sooo, I remember sitting in court next to another attorney, waiting for our cases to be called. Defendant walks up to the podium. Bald. Penis tattooed on the back of his head.
> Sometimes, appearances do tell us something about the individual



Sometimes the actions of a man is reflected in his appearance. I think thats why tattoos are so special.


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## Tyler Atkinson (Feb 2, 2017)

jermy Bell said:


> Um,are we not to judge our brothers by their appearance,  but by their actions ? I have a full sleave, and several other tats.  Most  the ones I sit in lodge with are way older brothers. They don't seem to care, but how I conduct my self as a man and a mason.


Im covered in tattoos too. I just always thought that there would be a problem actually getting the S&C tattooed onto you. Just a curious question.


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## Bloke (Feb 2, 2017)

Tyler Atkinson said:


> Im covered in tattoos too. I just always thought that there would be a problem actually getting the S&C tattooed onto you. Just a curious question.



Ours JW has a S&C on his sleeve tattoo, I think it's way cool


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## jermy Bell (Feb 2, 2017)

I don't  have a S&C tattoo yet, being raised little over 2 years. Right now money is very very  tight. But I would like my other  sleeve done with the pillars at the bottom of the winding stairs, king Solomons temple or the s&c at the top with a starry deck heaven ? Idk.


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## Brother JC (Feb 2, 2017)

I'm planning J&B on the back of my upper arms, one on each.


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## Ripcord22A (Feb 2, 2017)

Brother JC said:


> I'm planning J&B on the back of my upper arms, one on each.


Id like to see that

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## dfreybur (Feb 3, 2017)

Tyler Atkinson said:


> I just always thought that there would be a problem actually getting the S&C tattooed onto you.



Wearing a symbol, including as a tattoo, implies it is a status you have earned.  As an EA yours would be in the arrangement you were taught in that degree.  You'd be allowed to wear it that way forever as we are all EAs in addition to our other degrees, but I do suggest you earn the rest of your degrees then decide when your list of choices is longer.

One alternative I've seen is "In loving memory", S&C, then the name of a passed family member.  That's wearing a symbol in a way that implies that person earned it.

You knocked on our doors and were told to wait a time with patience.  This is one of the applications of the lesson.[/QUOTE]


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## Warrior1256 (Feb 3, 2017)

jermy Bell said:


> I have a full sleave, and several other tats. Most the ones I sit in lodge with are way older brothers. They don't seem to care, but how I conduct my self as a man and a mason.


Totally agree.


Glen Cook said:


> Sooo, I remember sitting in court next to another attorney, waiting for our cases to be called. Defendant walks up to the podium. Bald. Penis tattooed on the back of his head.
> Sometimes, appearances do tell us something about the individual


Also totally agree, lol.


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## acjohnson53 (Feb 3, 2017)

to each his on, that's branding, I'm not omega phi si


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## acjohnson53 (Feb 3, 2017)

they brand animals, and stuff like that...


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