# Wizards, Wackjobs, and Weirdoes



## Frater Cliff Porter (Jul 9, 2010)

From www.therelevantmason.com

They snickered when he walked by, the two Brothers, longtime past masters and longtime members of the lodge, both slightly deaf, thought they were whispering.  â€œIs he a wizard or just a wackjob?â€ the man had asked.  Both giggled and snorted a bit, the other responded, â€œI donâ€™t see a wand in his hand, but nothing would surprise me with this lot.â€

The Wizards actions that brought such ridicule, the study of the esoteric areas of Masonry.  He had read a paper the other day during good of the order and the paper was about speculative alchemy, since which time he was branded â€œone of those.â€  

Generally, my style is not a rant so much as it is a story.  This writing is categorically a rant, so if you suffer from rantaphobia, I recommend reading no further.  If you believe that men with less than 50 years in the Craft should keep quite and learn their place and that holding a dues card deems a man a Mason or an event merely taking place in a Masonic lodge is enough to deem it a Masonic event, again, I implore you, read no further.

Long gone are the fun filled days of my Masonic youth when I was overtly offended by statements that started with â€œback in my dayâ€ and ended with some sort of immoral moral story that included me sitting down, shutting up and simply being happy I was a Mason.  I have reached a point that I am only saddened that a Brother has sat in lodge so many times and found so little in the way of Masonry.  It seems that you can have 20 years of experience, or one days worth of experience over and over again for 20 years, depending on how you choose to see it, or more importantly for this rant, choose not to see it.

There is a shift in the Craft right now, a rent in the fae* as it were.  Like all transitions, even the initiatory one that all Masons are supposed to go through, there are ripples and currents and instabilities.  There is always a death before a rebirth.  (For those who are now thinking, â€œMan, this guy must be one of those wizards, wackjobs, or weirdoesâ€â€¦that answer is yes, and had you paid the least attention during your MM degree, your 18th degree, or the Order of the Temple you would have noticed there is a slight allusion death and rebirth in all of these).  

The Craft as a whole is undergoing regeneration, an evolution of devolution as it were, a return to the philosophical, alchemical, and psychological aspects of Masonry.  I am a proud to be a member of the transitional team, and donâ€™t mind the ripples.  Nonetheless, I have noticed that as the pendulum swings, the grumblings of those who would prefer to do nothing have grown louder.  Because the cacophony has drowned out a few voices of education I find far more melodious lately, I have decided to address them.

First, I would like to address the statements that seem loudest.  

â€œJust because you want Masonry to be mystical, spiritual, or include other hocus pocus, does not mean that it does.â€

â€œWhat in the heck does alchemy have to do with Masonry at all?â€

â€œPike, Wilmshurst, Hall and others were weirdoes or oddballs and donâ€™t speak for the Craft.  Heck, most men in Masonry are never going to read those crackpots anyway.â€

I have addressed these individually before and/or with groups.  But, today I want to discuss, at least briefly, the converse or the root of the argument.  Not the psychological or philosophical origins which are likely to do with unfit men being made Masons with little or no thought given to the work in attempts to bolster numbers and keep dues artificially lowâ€¦.that, is another argument for another day.

No, I want to discuss the foundation of the argument from rhetorical standpoint.  I mean rhetorical in the traditional and academic sense of invention or discovery, arrangement, style, memory, and delivery.  I believe that the invention or discovery of the argument against Masonry as an alchemical art, a mystical tradition, or spiritual undertaking is flawed.  So, I will make my argument here.

The converse to Masonry as a mystical tradition of metaphysical transformation generally takes the position that Masonry is a highly stylized social group with moral lessons imparted to its members.  In short, it is a social order for good men to get together on occasion and help serve their community.  

If this is the case, I find most of Masonry difficult, if not impossible to explain.  When Masonry is regarded as a purely mystical tradition designed for transformation all of these misgivings and difficult explanations dissolve.

So, if Masonry is nothing more that a social and charitable order and all of the mystical and metaphysical â€œstuffâ€ is drummed up by the wizards, wackjobs, and weirdoes, then I ask WHY:

1.  Do we (the Craft) bother with a tiered initiatic system that includes archaic language modeled after the mystical traditions of Greece, Egypt, Persia, etc?  Why not simply allow people in after a back ground check?  Shared experience is attained easily enough by going to dinner together or consuming alcoholic beverages together.  Why initiate at all?

2.  Do the penalties and passwords directly correlate to alchemical operations in place and written about in the 1400 and 1500â€™s long before the public acknowledgment of Freemasonry in 1717.  Alchemical operations include taking an herb that is torn out by its roots, placed in liquid, agitated twice in a day while remaining buried in a sand bath during the remainder of the operation.  Any of this seem familiar?  The passwords for the various degrees have direct alchemical allusions, why would the drafters of the operation make these connections, for pure coincidence?  The highest point of a distillation apparatus was referred to as the pinnacle of the temple.  It continues like this throughout all of alchemy and ancient alchemical text.

3.  Does the neophyteâ€™s journey culminate in an ancient death ritual similar to those found in ancient mystery schools designed for the sole purpose of spiritual enlightenment?

4.  Is the word â€œmysteriesâ€ or â€œmysteryâ€ specifically included in many Masonic rituals if there isnâ€™t one?  Is this a lie?

I will be honest, if Masonry is a purely social order with some charitable intentions; it does a miserable job it.  My arguments for this are as follows:

1.  You canâ€™t talk to the lodge without first addressing the Master which slows communication, which is the primary objective in a purely social event.

2.  There is very little actual socializing during lodge and many lodges donâ€™t have dinners anymore or the dinners are so terrible they have become a point of jest and humor within the ranks of the Fraternity.

3.  We give very little money away for a charity.

4.  We barely help ourselves.  Brothers will fall away from lodge without being noticed and rarely receive so much as a phone call before his NPD letter is mailed.

5.  Men rush home instead of socializing because meetings are filled with minutes, paying bills, and petty arguments all while sitting in the same seat and next to the same person you always sit next to.  This is not social.

As a purely social or charitable order, Masonry utterly fails and becomes nothing more than bizarre and archaic ritual with no meaning.  Further complicating the issue, it would mean that several parts of the rituals used throughout the world are filled with outright lies.  The rituals and charges of the various orders of Masonry speak to mystery, enlightenment, and a need to study the deeper meanings and converse with well informed adepts and Brothers.  If Masonry is a social club that teaches the golden rule, what is left to â€œstudy.â€  We could some it up with, â€œHey thatâ€™s naughty, stop it.â€  Those lessons are learned prior to grade school for most and certainly donâ€™t require an elaborate death ritual to inculcate them.

So it is, I must relegate myself to the denizens of the wizards, wackjobs and weirdoes that will study as the ritual begs, search as the charges recommend, and never stop trying to build the temple, hone the stone, and perfect the ashlar.


----------



## Ashton Lawson (Jul 9, 2010)

Well said! I try to live most of what you are ranting.


----------



## ShadyGrove821 (Jul 10, 2010)

Well said, my Brother! Excellent rant.


----------



## Blake Bowden (Jul 10, 2010)

As always...excellent post!


----------



## JTM (Jul 11, 2010)

sweet post


----------



## PeterLT (Jul 11, 2010)

Great post! Gimme a bit of time and I'll take a stab at addressing some of your points.


----------



## PeterLT (Jul 11, 2010)

So, if Masonry is nothing more than a social and charitable order and all of the mystical and metaphysical “stuff” is drummed up by the wizards, wackjobs, and weirdoes, then I ask WHY:

1. Do we (the Craft) bother with a tiered initiatic system that includes archaic language modeled after the mystical traditions of Greece, Egypt, Persia, etc? Why not simply allow people in after a back ground check? Shared experience is attained easily enough by going to dinner together or consuming alcoholic beverages together. Why initiate at all?


  Because we do. I know that sounds like a brush off but hear me out. There are several viewpoints on the origins of the Craft, all of which stress the need to initiate as a means of impressing the mind with the seriousness of the Brother’s journey in the Craft. It is a journey of discovery, within and without. The degree of that journey, its intensity, its depth, is largely up to the individual but the basic tools are presented from initiation into the Order. By the time one has been raised, all has been imparted, much of what is taught in the concordant bodies is largely an expansion of the first three, an elaboration, if you will.

For many, that is enough, for it fills the need in their lives nicely. For others, more is needed, deeper thought and study. Again, the journey is personal and in many respects forms the “mysteries” of Freemasonry. 

2. Do the penalties and passwords directly correlate to alchemical operations in place and written about in the 1400 and 1500’s long before the public acknowledgment of Freemasonry in 1717. Alchemical operations include taking an herb that is torn out by its roots, placed in liquid, agitated twice in a day while remaining buried in a sand bath during the remainder of the operation. Any of this seem familiar? The passwords for the various degrees have direct alchemical allusions, why would the drafters of the operation make these connections, for pure coincidence? The highest point of a distillation apparatus was referred to as the pinnacle of the temple. It continues like this throughout all of alchemy and ancient alchemical text.


Possibly, if that is what the penalties of the Craft’s obligations mean to you. To me, I regard the penalties as a means to instil fear in the minds of candidates. Why fear? Because in the times when they were devised a man could be horribly tortured and killed because of what the craft sought to teach, that we are a Brotherhood of Man, equal under the Fatherhood of God. Thoughts like that could get you burned at the stake (or worse) in the 14 and 1500’s. A penalty such as is found in the obligations would be in keeping with the times they lived in and would ably serve to keep the Craft safe. Today, they still serve, although in a tongue in cheek way, to impress upon the mind the seriousness of the undertaking. 

3. Does the neophyte’s journey culminate in an ancient death ritual similar to those found in ancient mystery schools designed for the sole purpose of spiritual enlightenment?


  I would say yes. It reinforces the important lesson of the immortality of the soul and that our actions in this life have repercussions beyond the grave.

4. Is the word “mysteries” or “mystery” specifically included in many Masonic rituals if there isn’t one? Is this a lie?

No, it is not a lie. But one should be careful not to think that the “mysteries” implied are in the ritual. They are not in print. They are in a life well spent on the level. They are in what we learn about ourselves and how we deal with our obligations we have to all around us. The best secret in Masonry is that there isn’t one. The secret is in each Brother.  

I will be honest, if Masonry is a purely social order with some charitable intentions; it does a miserable job it. My arguments for this are as follows:

1. You can’t talk to the lodge without first addressing the Master which slows communication, which is the primary objective in a purely social event.

It is not a purely social event. The Master is there to direct the proceedings and guide the Officers and Brethren in the performance of obligations and the direction of the Lodge. Communication is slowed down considerably if the meeting is allowed to be uncontrolled, it would quickly descend into a mass of arguing and yelling; it’s human nature to be so.

2. There is very little actual socializing during lodge and many lodges don’t have dinners anymore or the dinners are so terrible they have become a point of jest and humor within the ranks of the Fraternity.

That’s not the fault of the Craft or it’s teachings. In all jurisdictions there are lodges that have been neglected to the point of near death. Many should be shut down for their own good and absorbed into better run and more active lodges.

3. We give very little money away for a charity.

Probably true to a point but again this is not the fault of the Order, it is the fault of neglect and poor management. The economy has some blame also, although many lodges have long become near sighted as far as charity is concerned. In my lodge, the quickest way to earn a reprimand from the WM is to say one of two things, “We are not a charity”, and “ That’s not the way we used to do it”.  We are obligated to be charitable, not only with money but also with our time and efforts. 

4. We barely help ourselves. Brothers will fall away from lodge without being noticed and rarely receive so much as a phone call before his NPD letter is mailed.

Again, not the fault of the Craft. Lodge administration is something that must be taught and practiced. I think we have collectively failed on that front but changes are coming in many jurisdictions. If you notice such a thing in your lodge, stand up during the Good of the Order and make it known that the Officers are not doing their jobs! Peer pressure works both ways, up and down. 

5. Men rush home instead of socializing because meetings are filled with minutes, paying bills, and petty arguments all while sitting in the same seat and next to the same person you always sit next to. This is not social.

A common issue. Nothing can kill a meeting like the Secretary droning on and on, especially if the lodge room is hot! Talk to your Secretary and WM, together they can change that. I’m not sure about your jurisdiction, but in mine minutes must be “adopted as read”. There is nothing requiring they be read aloud. We have the Wardens read them and certify in open lodge that they have, plus they are posted. This gives an additional 20 minutes in Lodge for education or an extended Good of the Order or whatever.

As a purely social or charitable order, Masonry utterly fails and becomes nothing more than bizarre and archaic ritual with no meaning. Further complicating the issue, it would mean that several parts of the rituals used throughout the world are filled with outright lies. The rituals and charges of the various orders of Masonry speak to mystery, enlightenment, and a need to study the deeper meanings and converse with well informed adepts and Brothers. If Masonry is a social club that teaches the golden rule, what is left to “study.” We could some it up with, “Hey that’s naughty, stop it.” Those lessons are learned prior to grade school for most and certainly don’t require an elaborate death ritual to inculcate them.

You’d be surprised. A bit of revision is a good thing, even for the Golden Rule. But one thing we seem to overlook sometimes is that Brethren are *charged* to study and advance their knowledge. But again, the means and degree to which that is done is up to the individual. For some it is a limitless quest in boundless arenas; for others it is memorizing the bus schedule. Both are honourable. Be careful not to judge others based on your self perceived abilities lest ye be judged as pretentious.

So it is, I must relegate myself to the denizens of the wizards, wackjobs and weirdoes that will study as the ritual begs, search as the charges recommend, and never stop trying to build the temple, hone the stone, and perfect the ashlar.

And right you should, we need Brothers such as you! You are not afraid to tread where others dare not and suffer the ridicule of those less enlightened. I look forward to your rants because they make us think and who knows where that will lead?:SNC:


----------



## rhitland (Jul 13, 2010)

If this where a social club it would be where the other social clubs like the Oddfellows ended up, in some book as history.  Masonry's rabbit hole is much deeper than any social organization allowing the Masons curiosity to run free and while most are scared to death of the depths of the hole some Masons realize this is a rough and rugged journey one in which lives have been lost.  Humans are notorious for believing what they want to be true and I think the Inquisition proved how futile it can be to attempt to change another's believes.  I feel about all we can do is what has been done here and that is voice our feelings as to what the craft is so others are not scared to mold their believes by what they truly believe not what somebody pressures them into believing.  I did hide my wand out of respect when I took into lodge, after reading this though I will never again.  Great post Brother.


----------



## Frater Cliff Porter (Jul 14, 2010)

Thank you for the kind words Brother...


----------



## cog41 (Dec 12, 2012)

After reading the threads about events surrounding the Florida Grand Lodge, I found this to be a timely thread for sure.

Brothers Cliff Porter and PeterLt present interesting words indeed.


----------



## BryanMaloney (Dec 12, 2012)

Why have the rituals? Why to spontaneous "clubs" formed by little boys have elaborate and impenetrable rituals, passwords, etc? Because it makes it more fun to play.
Masonry is no more successful as a substitute for religion than as a social club or charitable organization.


----------



## widows son (Dec 12, 2012)

Frater cliff I wholly 100% agree with you


----------



## bjdeverell (Dec 12, 2012)

Thank you! I'm in the same boat. Dedicating time, every day, over the years studying on my own would have meant so much more if I had others with me along the way. Sadly, it's just not the kind of thing to bring up in most Lodges today.


----------



## widows son (Dec 12, 2012)

It's a shame to deny the roots of masonry.


----------



## bjdeverell (Dec 12, 2012)

Too true. I still blame the 19th century anti-Masonic movement. We had to hide the "mystical" from all the cowans and eavesdroppers that were on the warpath and looking for proof of our evil deeds. Sad consequence is that we no longer felt comfortable talking to anybody about it and it became a lost art.


----------



## widows son (Dec 12, 2012)

Well hopefully the new generation will breathe some new life in the order. I'm proud of the roots that freemasonry has, the ideas of those roots propelled society


----------



## cog41 (Dec 12, 2012)

Well done brethren.

Good response to an old yet sound and relevant thread. 

Nicely done brother Frater Cliff Porter!


----------



## jwhoff (Dec 12, 2012)

Great post Brother Cliff!  Great post indeed.

Say ... if you have a little spare time, you are welcome to come down to Houston and stomp on the biggest soap box I can get my hands on.  

WOW!  That was flat putting it into words they should all be able to understand.


----------



## Brother JC (Dec 13, 2012)

Thanks for bumping this. I remember when it hit the blog "back when."
I'm fortunate to have found a lodge that thinks being is "whackjob" is a bonus. Even if my Mother Lodge  (well, 70% of) still shakes their heads.


----------



## Bubba (Apr 5, 2013)

Well. I dont know about all that, but all I ever herd was thet Masonary isnt ocult, and we arent nothing but a fraternity. Thats why we always invite the woman and famlies when ever we eat or have an isntalations


----------



## widows son (Apr 5, 2013)

I just receive the royal arch degree, and let me tell you, my wand just got bigger.


----------



## jwhoff (Apr 5, 2013)

Of course.  We're the worst of both sides of the argument.  

Kinda puts us in everyone's wheelhouse doesn't it?


----------



## dfreybur (Apr 9, 2013)

Bubba said:


> Well. I dont know about all that, but all I ever herd was thet Masonary isnt ocult, and we arent nothing but a fraternity.



Occult means hidden.  That a brother doesn't notice the occult content does not mean there is no occult content.  And that's as it should be.  Brothers can and do ignore the plentiful occult content of our gentle craft.  But seek and ye shall find.  It's there aplenty.  Ignore it and it doesn't effect you but ignoring it does not make it go away.

Consider a wider reason why there exist churches that object to Masonry.  Some churches have objected to the occult content.  Some brothers have responded by denying there is any occult content and that reaction became very common for a couple of generations.  It's the apologist approach.

I have no interest in apologizing and I don't want to ignore.  That some very strict churches object is to me a good sign that our activities are working.

When I was new I traded emails with a person who was clearly a brother.  We made veiled references that could only be understood by a brother.  Never giving out any of the secrets that are taught to every brother we managed to trade other secrets that are not mentioned.  In this case that the due guards and signs are chakra activations.  To understand this you need to know what the due guards and signs are as well as know what chakras are.  Fail to know either and the meaning is missed.  Chakras come out of Hindu teaching.

I quietly asked around for years until I encountered a brother of my generation who knew what chakras are.  I spent the evening in discussion with him ignoring the dinner and entertainment for the event.  I hadn't encountered in person a brother interested in the occult aspects before that.

Now many of the new men are interested in the history, the philosophy, the occult aspects. At one district meeting a young visitor used a keyword so as the others left I took him aside and asked about his interests.  When I mentioned the chakra activation aspect he pulled out a notebook and flipped to a page where he had drawn a color coded diagram of chakras.  I was thrilled to learn this young fellow new the field better than I did.  Asymmetrical for a reason - excellent.


----------



## JJones (Apr 9, 2013)

Bubba said:


> Well. I dont know about all that, but all I ever herd was thet Masonary isnt ocult, and we arent nothing but a fraternity. Thats why we always invite the woman and famlies when ever we eat or have an isntalations



This is just my opinion.  If we were simply a fraternity or a charitable organization (you didn't mention it, but some people seem to think it) then we wouldn't have all the ritual.  There's far more to Freemasonry than what's often taken at face value.


----------



## widows son (Apr 9, 2013)

Great responses. I agree.


----------



## Roy Vance (Apr 9, 2013)

rhitland said:


> If this where a social club it would be where the other social clubs like the Oddfellows ended up, in some book as history. Masonry's rabbit hole is much deeper than any social organization allowing the Masons curiosity to run free and while most are scared to death of the depths of the hole some Masons realize this is a rough and rugged journey one in which lives have been lost. Humans are notorious for believing what they want to be true and I think the Inquisition proved how futile it can be to attempt to change another's believes. I feel about all we can do is what has been done here and that is voice our feelings as to what the craft is so others are not scared to mold their believes by what they truly believe not what somebody pressures them into believing. I did hide my wand out of respect when I took into lodge, after reading this though I will never again. Great post Brother.



I also feel it was a great post. I am a relatively "young" Mason, having been Raised in May of '11, but I look around me in the Lodgeroom and see other Brothers who have been there for 30 or 40 years and just sit on the sidelines, some never having been in a 'chair' and it sort of disturbs me. I wonder if that is all they want from Masonry? You mentioned the depth of our 'rabbit hole', I, for one, am crawling as deep as I can go, just to see what is down there and I will take my wand with me, just in case.


----------



## widows son (Apr 10, 2013)

I like this.


----------



## Michael Neumann (Apr 10, 2013)

Bit confused here. I have only seen rods and staffs in a lodge room... never a Harry Potter wand... Can someone expand.


----------



## BryanMaloney (Apr 10, 2013)

Let's define the issue starkly:

If the "occult" elements (i.e., Theosophy, religious Gnosticism, Chakras, etc.) are necessary elements to fully be a Mason, then there is no way that someone can be a conventional Trinitarian Christian* and be a Mason. However, if all this stuff is really just extra baggage that is thoroughly disposable, then there's no problem. You cannot be both a conventional Trinitarian Christian and adopt Theosophy, Gnosticism, etc. The doctrines are mutually exclusive. There's nothing wrong with Masons of similar interest getting together, but to claim that these interests are more than sidelines to Freemasonry turns Freemasonry into a religion, and one that would not be compatible with the religions of the majority of Freemasons.

It's really simple, if the "occult" stuff really is necessary to fully be a Freemason, all the way, deep down, breadth and depth, then Freemasonry is incompatible with conventional Trinitarian Christianity, with the majority of Judaism, with Islam, etc. If the "occult" stuff is what separates "true" Masons from mere "surface" Masons, then nobody who adheres to the doctrines of the larger conventional religions in the USA could ever become a "true" Mason.

*A conventional Trinitarian Christian would include Baptists, Methodists, Church of Christ, Roman Catholic, Orthodox Christian, most "nondenominationals", and a lot of other groups.

If the "occult" stuff floats your boat, no problem, but to claim that it is somehow mandatory for a "complete" Masonic experience is to ultimately deny the "complete" Masonic experience to anyone whose religion does not share those "occult" beliefs--it makes Freemasonry into a religion.


----------



## dfreybur (Apr 10, 2013)

roy.vance said:


> ... I look around me in the Lodgeroom and see other Brothers who have been there for 30 or 40 years and just sit on the sidelines, some never having been in a 'chair' and it sort of disturbs me. I wonder if that is all they want from Masonry?



Brother Roy,

Do not discount the value of fellowship.  I think this is a largely ignored reason why some brothers attend regularly while others do not.  The fellowship aspect is there as long as other brothers are there.

I originally petitioned because I wanted to be active in the service and charity events.  I very much like participating in those events but as I went though my degrees and worked with my mentor I learned something new about myself.  Being with my brothers filled a gap that before joining I hadn't known was there.  Likely many men who need company go into work that requires a lot of personal interaction.  I ended up in work with email interaction.  As much as I love my work it only fulfills some of my needs.  Family, church, work are coed yet somehow I need time with other men.  I'd continue attending even if little ever happened at Stated meetings other than paying the bills because I know of this need.

I suggest the same is true of the regularly attending brothers you mentioned.  They find something deeply satisfying being in a group of fellow men.  For me just being there is enough.  I want to make more of my efforts so I've been through the line a couple of times, have studied the philosophies etc.  But to me those are all supporting staff to the fellowship that keeps me coming back.

I further suggest that being in a group of fellow men isn't enough for other men.  So we work on making our business meetings interesting and/or brief, on degree teams for shared activity, on beneficial or interesting activities.


----------



## dfreybur (Apr 10, 2013)

BryanMaloney said:


> Let's define the issue starkly:
> 
> If the "occult" elements (i.e., Theosophy, religious Gnosticism, Chakras, etc.) are necessary elements to fully be a Mason, then there is no way that someone can be a conventional Trinitarian Christian* and be a Mason.



Brother Bryan,

I in no way assert that interest in the occult elements of our craft is necessary.  What I assert is that they are there whether a brother has any interest in them or not and whether a brother thinks they are absent or not.  I in no way assert that study or practice of the occult elements of our craft are expected.  What I assert is that they don't have any obvious impact on those brothers who ignore them but there is more to solid than the superfices, more to the whole than the surface, more to the impact than the obvious.  The occult aspects are present and have been as far back as speculative members have been admitted.



> However, if all this stuff is really just extra baggage that is thoroughly disposable, then there's no problem.



There's a difference between optional as in it works to ignore them and disposable as in it works to remove them.  The occult aspects pervade the degrees.  They can be ignored but that does not change the fact that they are present.  They can not be disposed of.



> You cannot be both a conventional Trinitarian Christian and adopt Theosophy, Gnosticism, etc. The doctrines are mutually exclusive.



There are various elements of Masonry that conflict with plenty of religions to one degree or another yet we have brothers of every religion any of us have ever heard of and many that none of us have heard of.  Our degrees come out of the Bible as a lesson yet we've been admitting members of non-JCI religions for centuries.  There are active lodges in Japan where the majority of the population includes Shinto which is polytheistic and Buddhism which does not teach about deity.  Masonry includes dealing with the mutually exclusive through tolerance.

Membership in and doctrine of the Shinto religion and Christianity are mutually exclusive yet here we are an organization with plenty of members of both.  As Masons we have joined lodges that teach coexistence among and tolerance of all faiths.  And since we do not discuss religion in lodge we don't know the religion of every brother.  We rarely have an idea of how much religious diversity our own lodges actually have.  We accept the presence of that which we find mutually exclusive.  So it is with religious membership; so it also is with what happens in our degrees.



> There's nothing wrong with Masons of similar interest getting together, but to claim that these interests are more than sidelines to Freemasonry turns Freemasonry into a religion, and one that would not be compatible with the religions of the majority of Freemasons.



Fundie folks often claim that Masonry is a religion.  Please resist sharing that tactic with them.



> It's really simple, if the "occult" stuff really is necessary to fully be a Freemason, all the way, deep down, breadth and depth, then Freemasonry is incompatible with conventional Trinitarian Christianity, with the majority of Judaism, with Islam, etc.



Some of the occult content of Masonry comes out of the Kabbalah.



> If the "occult" stuff is what separates "true" Masons from mere "surface" Masons, then nobody who adheres to the doctrines of the larger conventional religions in the USA could ever become a "true" Mason.



Tolerance is respect not agreement.  Tolerance is peace not acceptance.  Tolerance is open mindedness not approval.  Tolerance is getting past whether you agree, accept or approve and finding common ground.  Tolerance when done right has the same type of overlap as our ambiguous mixing of the words charity and love.  Tolerance is generosity rather like charity is love.

So don't agree but do respect.  Don't accept but do be at peace.  Don't approve but be of open mind.  Get past that to the common ground of the experience of the degrees.  Degrees which include elements that you have stated are mutually exclusive.  Degrees that trigger intolerant actions by the intolerant and tolerant actions by the tolerant.

... on all regular Masons ...  Not just the ones we agree with or approve of.


----------



## BryanMaloney (Apr 10, 2013)

dfreybur said:


> Membership in and doctrine of the Shinto religion and Christianity are mutually exclusive yet here we are an organization with plenty of members of both.


 
Specifically because Freemasonry requires adopting the unique doctrines of neither. What bothers me are those who take Gnostic/Theosophical/etc. elements and proclaim them as some sort of "deeper" or "higher" Masonic teaching. You don't do this, but there are those who do. The teachings might or might not be "deep" or "high" but they are not a mark of being "more Masonic".



> Fundie folks often claim that Masonry is a religion.  Please resist sharing that tactic with them.



There are those on these message boards who essentially claim that to be a "true" Mason, one must become a Gnostic--adopt a specific religion, and make it plain that they think it is a good thing, that those Masons who do not embrace Gnosticism are somehow falling short.



> Some of the occult content of Masonry comes out of the Kabbalah.



So? Does that mean that Masons must become kabbalists?



> Tolerance is respect not agreement.  Tolerance is peace not acceptance.  Tolerance is open mindedness not approval.  Tolerance is getting past whether you agree, accept or approve and finding common ground.  Tolerance when done right has the same type of overlap as our ambiguous mixing of the words charity and love.  Tolerance is generosity rather like charity is love.



And this has what to do with the price of tea in China? I say again, if the "occult" stuff is what separates "true" from "surface" Masons, then nobody who isn't into the "occult" stuff can be considered a "true" mason.  It's got nothing to do with tolerance, it's got to do with immutable logic.

If A is a necessary condition to be B, then whatever lacks A cannot be B. If something can be B without having A, then A cannot be a necessary condition to be B.



> Degrees which include elements that you have stated are mutually exclusive.  Degrees that trigger intolerant actions by the intolerant and tolerant actions by the tolerant.



What I have seen has in no way looked like I must delve into anything "occult" to "truly" be a Mason. What is an eye above a structure? I can easily answer that it is the all-seeing eye of Divine Providence. What is a column? What is an obelisk? None of these things must have a specific "occult" interpretation. This is part of the wisdom of our forebears in harvesting so many symbols from so many sources--they underpin the fundamental unity of brotherhood. For while there may be differences in what each of us considers the ultimate source of Light, we all agree that we need Light.

Is a ladder to the sky a reference to Mount Meru, Jacob's Ladder, or the Ladder of Divine Ascent? It is a reference to the journey from the worldly world to the enlightened world. Beyond that, the specific "meaning" is chosen by each individual Mason and none can say one is "more true" than the other by virtue of it being more or less "esoteric" or "occult".

We are so very easily entrapped by the romance of the "esoteric", thinking that the more obscure and outre an interpretation, the more "true" it must be. "Manchmal ist eine Zigarre aben nur eine Zigarre."


----------



## widows son (Apr 10, 2013)

Dfreybur, I wholly agree with you. Although I do agree that the interpretation is open to the individual. I'd like to think that our order is general in that department to allow such openness and tolerance. JM2C


----------



## Frater Cliff Porter (Apr 10, 2013)

> There are those on these message boards who essentially claim that to be a "true" Mason, one must become a Gnostic--adopt a specific religion, and make it plain that they think it is a good thing, that those Masons who do not embrace Gnosticism are somehow falling short.



I have enjoyed the study of a number of aspects and sects of the Christian faith from the Catholic church, to Lutheranism, to Gnosticism and have not found a single Gnostic declare that it is a MUST.  The closest I can find is the fourth degree of the Scottish Rite which states a basic understanding of the concepts of Kaballah are necessary to fully understand some of Masonry.  I am not certain that statement is accurate out of context, but understand it in the format of the degree.

Could you provide a direct example of a Brother making the claim you indicate?  

The reason I find this difficult is that the claim would be decidedly un-Gnostic.  The very nature of the faith would provide that the knowledge you are seeking is within you and around you all the time and all at once...and so, although initiation was a tool in the Gnostic sects, the more modern Gnostic groups even came to reject ritual in some circumstances because they feared the symbol would be mistaken for the think symbolized.

I wrote the original paper...and I am no occultist or magical guy or what have you...but I do believe men should be allowed to seek a deeper meaning to their Masonry and should not be ridiculed for it.


----------



## Michael Neumann (Apr 10, 2013)

Frater Cliff Porter said:


> a basic understanding of the concepts of Kaballah are necessary to fully understand some of Masonry.



My wife and I were cruising etsy looking for antiques. I crossed a book from the 1800's called Cabala Or the Rites and Ceremonies of the Cabalist. It just arrived and is setting on my desk. The thing is encoded so I am going to have a fun time guessing what the symbols mean based upon my knowledge of the blue degrees and the York degrees I have been through. Any insight would be nice.


----------



## dfreybur (Apr 11, 2013)

BryanMaloney said:


> Specifically because Freemasonry requires adopting the unique doctrines of neither. What bothers me are those who take Gnostic/Theosophical/etc. elements and proclaim them as some sort of "deeper" or "higher" Masonic teaching. You don't do this, but there are those who do. The teachings might or might not be "deep" or "high" but they are not a mark of being "more Masonic".



Appendent bodies claim to be "further" rather than "higher".  Should a Masonic historian claim his studies are "deeper" I'd be okay with that.  That mystics call their studies "deeper" thus does not bother me.  Claims of "higher" tend to draw correction from me.



> There are those on these message boards who essentially claim that to be a "true" Mason, one must become a Gnostic--adopt a specific religion, and make it plain that they think it is a good thing, that those Masons who do not embrace Gnosticism are somehow falling short.



I've missed such boards but that sort of mistake does not surprised me.



> So? Does that mean that Masons must become kabbalists?



No and that's my point.  By participating in the degrees we partake in some kabbalistic practices.  Doing so does not make us kabbalists.  Nonetheless those kabbalistic practices are there to any who know what to look for.  Not knowing what to look for does not mean they are not present.



> And this has what to do with the price of tea in China? I say again, if the "occult" stuff is what separates "true" from "surface" Masons, then nobody who isn't into the "occult" stuff can be considered a "true" mason.  It's got nothing to do with tolerance, it's got to do with immutable logic.
> 
> If A is a necessary condition to be B, then whatever lacks A cannot be B. If something can be B without having A, then A cannot be a necessary condition to be B.



It is not necessary to accept the validity of occult practices to be a Mason.  But any of us who give a due guard and sign do an occult practice whether we know it or not, whether we accept occult practice or not.  The occult is present.  Learn more occult principles and more examples can be found in our practices.  I suggest this can be a mind opening experience - It teaches that since we regularly do occult practices, often without even knowing we do so, those practices are not harmful in spite of some teachings to the contrary.  There are many ways to have mind opening experiences of that sort.  Something we've been doing at lodge for decades and we learn about it.  Boom another internal limitation falls.  It happens with brothers who think they can't memorize until they present their proficiencies as one of the first such lessons we learn.

It isn't doing the occult practices like the due guards and signs that make us Masons.  What makes us Masons is what is in our hearts.  But what Mason does not do the due guards and signs?  We all do.  Knowing such an action has deeper meaning can be called deeper.  Not knowing such an action has deeper meaning does not make one a false Mason.  Not knowing doesn't even make one not a contemplative Mason as there are many topics on which to contemplate.



> What I have seen has in no way looked like I must delve into anything "occult" to "truly" be a Mason.



Occult means hidden.  There are many levels of hidden.  Keeping the modes of recognition secret makes them occult even though non-Masons can go to any library and search for exposes.  That you do not see other hidden actions does not mean they are not there.  As in my case of pointing out that the dues guards and signs.  Not knowing they are chakra activations does not make them not chakra activations.



> What is an eye above a structure? I can easily answer that it is the all-seeing eye of Divine Providence. What is a column? What is an obelisk? None of these things must have a specific "occult" interpretation. This is part of the wisdom of our forebears in harvesting so many symbols from so many sources--they underpin the fundamental unity of brotherhood. For while there may be differences in what each of us considers the ultimate source of Light, we all agree that we need Light.
> 
> Is a ladder to the sky a reference to Mount Meru, Jacob's Ladder, or the Ladder of Divine Ascent? It is a reference to the journey from the worldly world to the enlightened world. Beyond that, the specific "meaning" is chosen by each individual Mason and none can say one is "more true" than the other by virtue of it being more or less "esoteric" or "occult".
> 
> We are so very easily entrapped by the romance of the "esoteric", thinking that the more obscure and outre an interpretation, the more "true" it must be. "Manchmal ist eine Zigarre aben nur eine Zigarre."


----------



## widows son (Apr 11, 2013)

I like this.


----------



## BryanMaloney (Apr 12, 2013)

dfreybur said:


> Appendent bodies claim to be "further" rather than "higher".


 
Alas, not true. The front page of the official web site for the Scottish Rite for Australia states that the 33rd degree is "the highest and last in Freemasonry".  That's pretty darn specific. Likewise, Pike made it quite plain that Blue Lodge is deficient and insufficient.



> No and that's my point.  By participating in the degrees we partake in some kabbalistic practices.  Doing so does not make us kabbalists.  Nonetheless those kabbalistic practices are there to any who know what to look for.  Not knowing what to look for does not mean they are not present.



I never denied they were present.



> It is not necessary to accept the validity of occult practices to be a Mason.  But any of us who give a due guard and sign do an occult practice whether we know it or not



In one sense, EVERYTHING that is not openly published through legitimate Masonic outlets is "occult". That's such a broad use of "occult" that one ought not use "occult", given the word's connotations. There is a vast difference between happening to use a symbol that other groups might attach theurgic/thaumaturgic power to but without such an attachment and actually attempting to practice such theurgy/thaumaturgy. Should I presume that everyone who says "bless you" after I sneeze believes that demons haunt us to steal our souls, which emerge from our bodies when we sneeze? The "bless you" in this case is "occult" in other overly-broad use, but it is not "occult" in the more precise use.



> Occult means hidden.


 
"Tits" means "mammaries". Why don't we say "tits" instead of "breasts"? Occult does mean "hidden" but it means a LOT MORE than merely "hidden". "Occult" carries a lot of other baggage, as well. Connotation usually has far more meaning than the simple denotation. Using "occult" means that one wishes to embrace all the other bagggage. Using "esoteric" means that one wishes to dump the baggage and be more neutral, closer to "hidden" by itself. If "occult" merely means "hidden", what is wrong with using "hidden"?[/QUOTE]



> Not knowing they are chakra activations does not make them not chakra activations.



But they are not chakra activations. They are gestures that happen to strongly resemble chakra activations and are possibly descended from these chakra activations. What does "girl" mean? Well, if one traces the etymology, it means a child of either gender. Therefore, using your reasoning, all boys are really girls!


----------



## Michael Hatley (Apr 12, 2013)

> Why don't we say "tits" instead of "breasts"?



"Teets" is a funny word when applied to humans - but my wife doesn't think its very funny :30:




> Therefore, using your reasoning, all boys are really girls!



Well, shit.  Some of you could do with a wax job :scared:

I don't care who a fella is, if they have a chemistry set and claim to be an alchemist, they are a funny fellow.  If a person wants to worship the sun, why, worship it.  Or whatever.  One man's snake oil is another man's ambrosia.

But once a fella sells books and travels the speaking circuit profiting from their good word then they are in a different category.  But debate em as an equal?  Haha, that gives em cred.  They make their livin building their personal brand while the rest of us do more useful things, their brand is a reflection of the men they out rhetoric.  Pshaw.  Let em buy a bigger chemistry set.

Hey, it just occurred to me - the CIA isn't clandestine, it is occult!  Anyone wanna start a for profit website on the expose? 

And don't mind me, I'm tongue in cheek brethren, tongue in cheek!


----------



## dfreybur (Apr 12, 2013)

BryanMaloney said:


> Alas, not true. The front page of the official web site for the Scottish Rite for Australia states that the 33rd degree is "the highest and last in Freemasonry".  That's pretty darn specific. Likewise, Pike made it quite plain that Blue Lodge is deficient and insufficient.



Alas indeed.  I'm an AASR-SJ Scottish Rite Mason so Australia doesn't get to speak for me, my valley or my jurisdiction.  Pike may be a former SGC of the AASR-SJ but he's long dead and never did speak for me or my valley.  His influence on my jurisdiction is large but old.  My bias - I think my mentors at my reunion who taught me to call the SR degrees "further not higher" knew late 20th century Masonry better than Pike.  Now that it's the 21st century I figure they also know 21st century masonry better than Pike.  His being dead makes him not able to learn about our centuries so it is a slam dunk.



> I never denied they were present.



As to the rest I point out that neither of us get to speak for the other and that's as it should be.  We disagree and that's okay.

You've referred to others who claim it is necessary to be gnostic.  Neither they nor either of us get to speak for each other and that's as it should be.  I disagree with them as well and that's okay also.

One of the reasons this is a good topic is because it hits on a point with much disagreement.  It's a point some Antis have used for leverage.  It's a point some members deny is applicable.  It's a point some members assert is applicable.  It's a point some members are unapologetic about the issue, both among the deniers and asserters.  Another reason is the new generation of brothers have a wide range of interests that include this topic so it helps us to discuss it.


----------



## widows son (Apr 12, 2013)

I like this.


----------



## widows son (Apr 12, 2013)

Well put dfreybur.


----------



## Michael Neumann (Apr 13, 2013)

I have read volumes on the craft, both the bland and the ... occult (baggage included). Generally I am serious and approach my posts in the same manner but I have been out for a bit of fun lately so I am going to contribute to this thread with that in mind. Here is an interesting book that Google pulled for mehttp://www.amazon.com/Alchemical-Keys-Masonic-Ritual/dp/1435704401 that seems to show our rituals and how they are actually alchemical guides. Here is a guide to the hermetic symbolism behind our work http://www.levity.com/alchemy/bamberg.html
"Against the background of the Zodiac,Venus completes a five pointed star shape every eight years and returns to itsexact starting place after five cycles, or forty years.  Every eight years it marks a point in time when the solar calendar, the lunar calendar and the sidereal calendar all coincide within two minutes. After five cycles, i.e.forty years that time is synchronized to within fractions of a second,providing a calendar and a clock that was used to set the time of day until the 1950’s when even more-accurate atomic clocks were developed. Put simply, Venusis the metronome of our world. Understand this and such other vital functions as the seasons and the tides, and you master your environment both in terms of farming and seamanship, ensuring that you will eat and trade efficiently. This was of great importance to early civilizations and well repaid the centuries of observation necessary to learn this." http://www.masoniclibrary.org.au/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=59:venus-a-freemasonry&catid=23:lecture&Itemid=30

The Golden Ratio http://www.goldennumber.net/solar-system/our solar system can be measured and those measures accurately reflected in the perfect human body. Essentially we are a mathematical reflection of our solar systems position at the time of our development. As we grow the planets pull on us like the moon pulls the tides. “Venusa nd the Earth are linked in an unusual relationship involving phi.” Many structures were built using the golden mean according to some random guy who wrote the wiki article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_works_designed_with_the_golden_ratio
Since we are a reflection of the cosmos and we all have a divine spark within us I understand that Jesus might have stated at one point “yea are GODs” meaning that each of us has GOD within us “There is much that is contained within these rituals but to an outside observer it certainly would not be understood as one who has experienced it. Its modes of symbols, words and allusions to sacred geometry, cosmology, living and dying or renewal. I recall a particular Bro. Barry Jones who spoke at a Masonic Educational Workshop and who recounted his visit to Germany and his experience of Freemasonic initiation there. He explained portions of their work which culminated in the initiate being asked to look into the V.S.L and there being a mirror placed upon it, the candidate seeing himself, was given explanation that all the secrets were to found within himself.”http://www.nmmasons.org/index.php/news/115-masonic-ritual
I was once asked what was GOD backwards? Thus I was told that we are to serve GOD as man’s best friend serves man.

Now for a dip in the loony  waters, am I there already?  -  “In1935, Paul Foster Case wrote: "Since the date, 1776, is placed on the bottom course of the pyramid [on the Great Seal], and since the number 13 has been so important in the history of the United States and in the symbols of the seal, it is not unreasonable to suppose that the thirteen courses of the pyramid may represent thirteen time-periods of thirteen years each." The13 time-periods of 13 years each equaled 169 years. From July 4, 1776 to July 4, 1945 equaled 169 years. From July 4, 1945 to August 6, 1945 (Hiroshima) was 33 days. 13& 33. The Freemasons 'Signature” & http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/hardtruth/uspresidentasmasonspt3.htm

The links and quotes are endless so I will complete this post with the funniest one I could find – We must try not to interfere in the fight between the reptilians and the Anunnaki, but as illuminati I guess we are already involved? http://www.krschannel.com/illuminati-.html ;-) hmy:


----------



## Frater Cliff Porter (Apr 13, 2013)

Brother Bryan could you provide that message board or forum you mentioned.  I have true interesting in reaching out to them to find out why such a claim would be made.  If you overstated things a bit and the board or such does not exist I think an apology to our Gnostic brethren might be in order don't you?


----------



## Michael Neumann (Apr 13, 2013)

You can find anything if you search hard enough. That is why this is an educational, yet unending debate. Mutual respect is the only rule, beyond that Masonry is what it will be for each man. No more and no less.


----------



## jjjjjggggg (Mar 2, 2014)

Nice post, brother Porter!


Sent From My Freemasonry Pro App


----------

