# Mainstream Masonry and PHA Masonry



## Brother JB (Mar 22, 2013)

I have a grandpa who is a 32 degree Mason PHA and I'm a AF AM I would like for him to be at my raising ceromony when it happens would that be possible for him to attend my raising even tho he is a PHA?

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## credo73 (Mar 22, 2013)

I'm only an EA, but what I've read in other posts it sounds like it depends on the Grand Lodge recognition of PH and extending visitation rights.

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## crono782 (Mar 22, 2013)

It depends on your GL and his GL if they have extended recognition and visitation rights to each other.


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## Brother JB (Mar 22, 2013)

Thanks for the info brother I'm an EA as well and I asked the question because my grandpa was one of the influential sources that inspired me to Join the Masonic fraternity he is a good and honest man who I want to be like and it would mean the world to me if he could see me get raised or help raise me when my raising comes

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## crono782 (Mar 22, 2013)

You'd do well to look at my reply to your post in the "masonry in the military" thread concerning your Grand Lodge.


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## Bro. Stewart P.M. (Mar 22, 2013)

When all else fails... Consult your Secretary!


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## bupton52 (Mar 22, 2013)

Brother JB said:


> I have a grandpa who is a 32 degree Mason PHA and I'm a AF AM I would like for him to be at my raising ceromony when it happens would that be possible for him to attend my raising even tho he is a PHA?
> 
> Freemason Connect Premium App



You have stated your GL here before. It is not a regular or recognized organization. Unfortunately, he won't be able to attend based on that. 


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## towerbuilder7 (Mar 26, 2013)

The only way he would be able to attend your ceremony is if YOU were to join a PHA Lodge in your Jurisdiction, Young Brother........Bro Upton is correct.......your Lodge and Grand Lodge are not recognized by either the Prince Hall Grand Lodge of California, nor the "Mainstream" Grand Lodge of California................Masonically, he would not be allowed to visit your ceremony.     A good website for you to browse is the *www*.*phylaxis.org*, which is the website of the Phylaxis Society, the research arm of Prince Hall Masonry.................this site will provide more LIGHT on predominantly Black AF&AM LODGES, AND GRAND LODGES.    I have first hand knowledge of this issue, as I was raised in a "4 Letter" Grand Lodge here in Houston.......with more LIGHT, I was eventually able to petition and join a PHA (Prince Hall Affiliated) Lodge in Aug 2010...........I hope this information will assist you in your Masonic travels........also, I would strongly suggest you have a talk with your Grandfather-----he would be the best source of advice and guidance, sicne he is a PHA MASON......................Bro. Jones


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## widows son (Mar 27, 2013)

Brother jones, what do you mean by a 4 letter grand lodge? Just curious that's all.


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## bupton52 (Mar 27, 2013)

widows son said:


> Brother jones, what do you mean by a 4 letter grand lodge? Just curious that's all.



That is the term that 99% of the African American clandestine GL members use to refer to their designation as AFAM versus what would be "three letter" PHA 

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## widows son (Mar 27, 2013)

Gotcha. What is it that makes these GLs clandestine? Do they not have a proper warrant and charter? Or is more than just that?


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## bupton52 (Mar 27, 2013)

widows son said:


> Gotcha. What is it that makes these GLs clandestine? Do they not have a proper warrant and charter? Or is more than just that?



Basically, they either CAN'T trace their lineage to one of the mother GLs, they CAN trace lineage to an expelled PH mason named John G. Jones, or they just pop up out thin air and form a GL. Some believe that article of incorporation they receive from their respective states are what gives them the authority to operate as a GL. Most of the time they are made up of almost entirely African American men, they have many members because they trick them into thinking that white men "stole" masonry from Egypt. They tell their members that they don't need the white man to legitimize them, etc. The list goes on and on. In California one of these clandestine GLs PGM snuck into a meeting for a lodge subordinate to the GLoCA. He wasn't dressed as a PGM nor did he present himself as such. It's really a huge problem that exists.


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## widows son (Mar 28, 2013)

Crazy. In what era do they say the white man stole masonry from Egypt? Egyptians have been in contact with Caucasians for thousands of years, and also how did they go about doing this? Europe and other parts of the world that supported caucasian populations were not as advanced as the Egyptians. Even during the Roman era the Europeans were considered barbarians, uncivilized and didn't have the technology to make them powerful.  They didn't stand a chance against the Romans, so i think its safe to say that when Egypt was the big dog on the block, they wouldn't of  stand a chance either, so I can hardly see any truth in that claim. Also from what I understand the Egyptians from classical antiquity were quite strict and protective of the imparting of their sacred knowledge. I don't have the info off hand but I've read that Plato had to wait 30 years or something before he was allowed to know the secrets of the Egyptians.  It looks like these guys are just looking for an excuse. Bro Upton, have you had any personal experience with any of these guys?


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## bupton52 (Mar 28, 2013)

widows son said:


> Crazy. In what era do they say the white man stole masonry from Egypt? Egyptians have been in contact with Caucasians for thousands of years, and also how did they go about doing this? Europe and other parts of the world that supported caucasian populations were not as advanced as the Egyptians. Even during the Roman era the Europeans were considered barbarians, uncivilized and didn't have the technology to make them powerful.  They didn't stand a chance against the Romans, so i think its safe to say that when Egypt was the big dog on the block, they wouldn't of  stand a chance either, so I can hardly see any truth in that claim. Also from what I understand the Egyptians from classical antiquity were quite strict and protective of the imparting of their sacred knowledge. I don't have the info off hand but I've read that Plato had to wait 30 years or something before he was allowed to know the secrets of the Egyptians.  It looks like these guys are just looking for an excuse. Bro Upton, have you had any personal experience with any of these guys?



I interact with them daily in several facebook groups where when all else fails, blame it on the white guys. Seriously. I also used to be a member of a clandestine GL. This is something that was taught to us. I can honestly say that it always sounded fishy to me and I have never regurgitated that foolishness.


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## Bro. Stewart P.M. (Mar 28, 2013)

bupton52 said:


> I interact with them daily in several facebook groups where when all else fails, blame it on the white guys. Seriously. I also used to be a member of a clandestine GL. This is something that was taught to us. I can honestly say that it always sounded fishy to me and I have never regurgitated that foolishness.



And... We thank you for that!


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## widows son (Mar 28, 2013)

Well I'm sure a lot of brethren appreciate your efforts to set things straight. I know I am. We can't have people masquerading around as masons making outlandish claims.


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## bupton52 (Mar 29, 2013)

widows son said:


> Well I'm sure a lot of brethren appreciate your efforts to set things straight. I know I am. We can't have people masquerading around as masons making outlandish claims.



Follow the link and join the group. You can see it for yourselves.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/101888519960825/


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## Ecossais (Apr 1, 2013)

The GL of Texas does not have visitation with any PHGL. We do "recognize" the PHGL of Texas, but again, our treaty with them does not include visitation. That is how the PHGL wanted the treaty worded when they first proposed it, and that is how it was approved. Since then, talks have been scheduled to open visitation between the two GLs. The last scheduled meeting for these discussions was scheduled in the Spring of 2012. However, shortly before the meeting took place, the PHGM abruptly cancelled the meeting. At the 2013 Grand Lodge Session in Waco, the Chairman of the Fraternal Relations Committee reported on this and stated that they stand ready to resume the discussions. However, since then, nothing has been heard from the PHGL or the PHGM. The ball seems to be in the PHGL's court.


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## widows son (Apr 2, 2013)

Bro. Upton thank you for the invite.


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## bupton52 (Apr 2, 2013)

Here is an article about what PH masons deal with concerning these other groups of so called masons. 

http://www.thephylaxis.org/bogus/crime.php



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## bupton52 (Apr 2, 2013)

widows son said:


> Bro. Upton thank you for the invite.




Now do you see what I was talking about? lol


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## widows son (Apr 3, 2013)

Ya.  I threw a few pennies out but it's like being in a cage with a couple of hungry pitbulls. I'm just gonna read. Some of these guys have some pretty wacky ideas. But to be honest I'm not educated enough on the subject to make a comment. My two cents was just what I know mixed with an opinion, but that's it. I also don't want to compromise my membership.


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