# Prince Hall Severs Ties With The Shrine



## Squire Bentley

The Grand Master of Prince Hall Texas has severed fraternal recogniton of The Shrine.


----------



## david918

Didn't the same thing happen in Virgina?


----------



## Squire Bentley

Yes and I am going to bet it goes through the whole PHA system.

The PH GM of Texas is Vice President of the Conference of Grand Masters and is well respected.  If he goes down this road it's only a matter of time before the rest of the GLs follow suit.


----------



## Curtis Wilson

What were the reasons behind the severed ties with the Shrine?


----------



## JEbeling

My feeling is... ! OK .. ! so.. !


----------



## Squire Bentley

Shrine admitting suspended or expelled Masons.


----------



## Joey

Squire Bentley said:


> Shrine admitting suspended or expelled Masons.


How is that even possible?


----------



## Bill Lins

Squire Bentley said:


> Shrine admitting suspended or expelled Masons.



Shame on 'em!


----------



## gortex6

Joey said:


> How is that even possible?



Destinguishing the differences between PHA and PHO?


----------



## rhitland

That had to be a tough decision


----------



## JEbeling

with our declining membership in Blue Lodge.. ! the Shrine will have no choice but to admit non-mason in the near furture.. ! The Blue Lodge seems to resist anything that will help with membership.. ?


----------



## Curtis Wilson

I disagree.  If you start to bypass the Blue Lodge as a requirement, your decline in the Blue Lodge will decrease more.  At one time it was a requirement to be a member of the Scottish Rite or York Rite bodies to become a member of the Shriners.  If you remove the Blue Lodge Requirement, then I fear you would also loose more membership in the Shriners as members would fall out in protest.  The Shriners organization is a worthwile organization to join, but that is because of the ties to the Blue Lodge, not just the work they perform.  I could go into detail about the Shriners on both sides of being a Mason and as one that has recieved benefits from their Hospital in Galveston.  Not all positive, but the care given by the Nursing Staff and the volunteer Masons/Shriners can't be matched anywhere.  My concern right now is what the effects of the UTMB cutbacks are going to have with the Shriners Hospital as they share many common services.


----------



## JTM

I understand why the shrine does it, but then again, everyone has to accept the consequences of their own actions.  If they accept suspended and expelled masons, then, well, I have to say that they are no longer a masonic organization. 

Either way, though, that probably won't stop me from eventually joining their noble cause... it just won't be masonic.


----------



## jwardl

I don't currently belong to the Shrine, but look forward to it once I advance farther as a blue-lodge mason.

A large part of the appeal to me is the fact that it's a masonic organization. If it begins opening to the general public, I think alot of that appeal will vanish. This isn't to say they couldn't still do good work, or might not remain a fine organization -- but they would cease to be a masonic organization, and thereby much of their fascination to masons, including me. I can see a significant number of brothers resigning over that.


----------



## TexMass

I know the Shrine, at one time, considered taking anyone who would petition.  They would not have to be a Mason but that eventually got voted down and letting just Master Masons enter did pass.  But to hear that they are letting suspende or expelled masons could make them irregular.  This is dangerous ground here.


----------



## Bro Mike

Just so I am clear on this, we are talking about the Prince Hall affiliated Shrine permitting  suspended/expelled Masons, correct?  This is not something that is going on, or being considered, at Shriners of North America. correct?


----------



## Curtis Wilson

Correct, Prince Hall has their own Masonic Structure as does the AF&AM.  It is the Prince Hall Shrine known as AEAONMS or Ancient Egyptian Arabic Order Nobles Mystic Shrine PHA.  It is their organization that has allowed suspended Masons to join their ranks.


----------



## Jamesb

Bro. Berry
I would like to learn more about some of the things your lodge is doing.  Could you maybe start a new thread and relate some of the things you are doing?  I would like to institute some things in my lodge like what you have stated.


----------



## AndreAshlar

It's been a few years since anyone has added on to this post... What is the status of the blue lodge requirement for A.E.A.O.N.M.S. around the country?  Are ties still severed between the MWPHGLTX and the PH Shrine?  Have any other PH Shrines abandoned the MM requirement?


----------



## acjohnson53

Very interesting conversation, because that was the more reason I became a Mason in order to be part of the Majistic Shrine...either by way of the York Rite or the Scottish Rite.....


----------



## AndreAshlar

acjohnson53 said:


> Very interesting conversation, because that was the more reason I became a Mason in order to be part of the Majistic Shrine...either by way of the York Rite or the Scottish Rite.....


Did you ever join the Shrine?


----------



## acjohnson53

Not yet, hopefully I'll get petitioned this year...I know I will get petitioned this year, it's been along time coming...Bro Ennis u ever follow any of the Brothers in the Aberdeen, Maryland area???


----------



## AndreAshlar

acjohnson53 said:


> Not yet, hopefully I'll get petitioned this year...I know I will get petitioned this year, it's been along time coming...Bro Ennis u ever follow any of the Brothers in the Aberdeen, Maryland area???


Absolutely. Several.  Have anyone in mind?


----------



## acjohnson53

it's been well over 20 years since being in Maryland..I done forgot half the people I know..


----------



## AndreAshlar

acjohnson53 said:


> it's been well over 20 years since being in Maryland..I done forgot half the people I know..


My DDGM lives in Aberdeen.  I know several other brothers from that area as well.


----------



## Glen Cook

DeusLuxVitam said:


> Man why cant all masonic lodges be proper.. I bet  you it aint like this in England!


Oh, there are personality conflicts and even crimes  committed by English  Masons as well.


----------



## Glen Cook

DeusLuxVitam said:


> Cripes!... Wouldn't it just be awesome if all lodges followed the same strict, yet welcoming open arms kind of policy.. just harmonious goodness and all that? I mean I hear too much about my lodge this.. my lodge that.. my worshipful master's a drunk who did this..
> 
> For someone curious about masonry It's just a tad bit offputting but.. There's always bad peaches to every tree, aye.


We recruit from the human species, which has human frailties. The difference with the Craft is that we DO care. What would passfor the rough  and tumble of daily life is not our standard. We even sanction those who behave inappropriately.


----------



## Bloke

DeusLuxVitam said:


> For someone curious about masonry It's just a tad bit offputting but.. There's always bad peaches to every tree, aye.



Indeed, and what I am seeing from you, you're a bad peach... I will report every post you made which contains inappropriate posts. You're welcome if you respect the place and those here... I've seen several posts from you which do not do that.


----------



## Glen Cook

DeusLuxVitam said:


> I .... However, I do have ADHD.. Maybe that has something to do with it.. I just didn't realize that others would find my posts rude..
> 
> *I always thought to myself .. in life.. some people will like what you have to say, others wont, but as long as you're okay with it.. you shouldnt care what others think.. Because if they choose to invest emotion or energy toward you or something you said, that's their own reactivity.. *



That's not ADD.  That's narcissism.


----------



## Glen Cook

DeusLuxVitam said:


> I find that very offensive and even a bit hurtful but you are entitled to your opinion so I respect you anyways.


But didn't you just claim, "I always* thought to myself .. in life.. some people will like what you have to say, others wont, but as long as you're okay with it.. you shouldnt care what others think.. Because if they choose to invest emotion or energy toward you or something you said, that's their own reactivity..*


----------



## Bloke

DudDark, I dont think we needed to check your profile to work out you were not a Freemason. I've already seen several things you have written which would see you admonished at best.

Lift up your socks or leave


----------



## Bloke

DeusLuxVitam said:


> ....so I respect you anyways.



Excellent. Start by respecting this forum or be proved a liar.


----------



## the_widows_son

I personally don't blame MWPHGLoTX for their decision, IMHO all the PHA GLs should withdraw recognition, and this is coming from a Ex member of the AEAONMS. I got an email yesterday from my old shrine asking me to pay $135 to get back on the rolls and also 2018 dues and it does not matter if I am current with my blue house, scottishrite or yorkrite. This bothers me because. The PHA Shrine will cause True and lawful Brothers to break their MM Obligation, with this type of buffoonery. You wont know if there is an expelled member or a non current blue lodge member in the mist. The AAONMS should also pull their recognition as well. Hopefully the AEAONMS gets their stuff together quick this is ridiculous. 

Sent from my SM-G930P using My Freemasonry mobile app


----------



## acjohnson53

Just had a conversation with one of my Past Masters about this subject.  it seems that we forgot from whence we came especially this matter. Regardless which direction a Brother takes in Masonry, he should always be in "Good Standing" with his Blue Lodge, because it is the foundation, With out one you shouldn't be able to progress to the next level, point blank. they are taking away from tradition.


----------



## acjohnson53

Exactly what the Widows Son said. I am a Sottish Rite Mason myself, and I am in good standing with my Dues in my Lodge, but I will not progress to the next level until I am current with my dues in the Consistory.....


----------



## Thomas Stright

acjohnson53 said:


> it's been well over 20 years since being in Maryland..



I'll be so happy when I can say the same.....


----------



## Kenneth Munn

the_widows_son said:


> I personally don't blame MWPHGLoTX for their decision, IMHO all the PHA GLs should withdraw recognition, and this is coming from a Ex member of the AEAONMS. I got an email yesterday from my old shrine asking me to pay $135 to get back on the rolls and also 2018 dues and it does not matter if I am current with my blue house, scottishrite or yorkrite. This bothers me because. The PHA Shrine will cause True and lawful Brothers to break their MM Obligation, with this type of buffoonery. You wont know if there is an expelled member or a non current blue lodge member in the mist. The AAONMS should also pull their recognition as well. Hopefully the AEAONMS gets their stuff together quick this is ridiculous.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930P using My Freemasonry mobile app


Greetings my brother, This is a problem that started several years ago under one of the Imperial Potentates administration. This caused quite a bit of confusion amongst the craft. There were guys coming in off the street joining the shrine just for the playhouse mentality. This caused a leadership disconnect with other leaders who totally disagreed with the move and as a result of that mentality, we are faced with the manifestation of the disproportion of continuity with our Grand Masters. If I'm correct, I think that the same leader whom the change had taken place under is now self styled as a Sovereign Grand Commander of The New Progressive Scottish Rite PHA D.C. We really have to deal with these issues that affect the craft as a whole. We tend to gripe about issues with irregular bodies, clandestine bodies, and non recognized bodies but we are faced with those same mentalities in our own front and backyard. Most brothers do not care to hear this, but this is true. When you have GMs who are part of this new Scottish Rite Body that supposed to represent leadership within a jurisdiction and a craft who doesn't question it, then you tend to have a serious problem at hand. We have to challenge these leaders to inculcate their obligations through action and knowledge. There are too many brothers who are striving to wear the Fez with no intention on studying the history of it.


----------



## Warrior1256

Bloke said:


> DudDark, I dont think we needed to check your profile to work out you were not a Freemason. I've already seen several things you have written which would see you admonished at best.





Bloke said:


> Excellent. Start by respecting this forum or be proved a liar.


Yep!


----------



## Matt L

My feeling is, if you are an appendant body of Freemasonry and you accept for membership men that have been tried and cast North or have not been initiated, passed and raised,  you are no longer a Masonic body.


----------



## the_widows_son

Kenneth Munn said:


> Greetings my brother, This is a problem that started several years ago under one of the Imperial Potentates administration. This caused quite a bit of confusion amongst the craft. There were guys coming in off the street joining the shrine just for the playhouse mentality. This caused a leadership disconnect with other leaders who totally disagreed with the move and as a result of that mentality, we are faced with the manifestation of the disproportion of continuity with our Grand Masters. If I'm correct, I think that the same leader whom the change had taken place under is now self styled as a Sovereign Grand Commander of The New Progressive Scottish Rite PHA D.C. We really have to deal with these issues that affect the craft as a whole. We tend to gripe about issues with irregular bodies, clandestine bodies, and non recognized bodies but we are faced with those same mentalities in our own front and backyard. Most brothers do not care to hear this, but this is true. When you have GMs who are part of this new Scottish Rite Body that supposed to represent leadership within a jurisdiction and a craft who doesn't question it, then you tend to have a serious problem at hand. We have to challenge these leaders to inculcate their obligations through action and knowledge. There are too many brothers who are striving to wear the Fez with no intention on studying the history of it.


PHA has been infighting for a very long time. IMHO Harmony being the support of all institutions especially this...ir lack there of...Too many Chiefs and not enough Indians. John G. Jones and his bastardization of Freemasonry which has begat so many spurious lodges, not to mention PHO. What it boils down to is Brothers refusing to work by the trowel and keeping the order cemented to a common mass. Mainstream Masonry had its share if the Antients and Moderns feud. But guess what they subdued their passions, and created harmony and in 1717 Premier Grand Lodge of England was born. This situation has been able to fester and grow and its Malignancy is going to destroy all that is good ignoring it has caused this problem to go way out of proportion.

Sent from my SM-G930P using My Freemasonry mobile app


----------



## Warrior1256

Matt L said:


> My feeling is, if you are an appendant body of Freemasonry and you accept for membership men that have been tried and cast North or have not been initiated, passed and raised, you are no longer a Masonic body.


I agree!


----------



## Ripcord22A

the_widows_son said:


> Mainstream Masonry had its share if the Antients and Moderns feud. But guess what they subdued their passions, and created harmony and in 1717 Premier Grand Lodge of England was born.


If im not mistaken the Premire GL was formed in 1717 but it wasnt in till almost one hundred yrs later that the anctients and moderns had their fued and at the conclustion you had the UGLE formation.  Hence the name "UNITED"  i might have my order mixed up though.......but I get what you were trying to say brother!



Sent from my LG-H918 using My Freemasonry mobile app


----------



## the_widows_son

Ripcord22A said:


> If im not mistaken the Premire GL was formed in 1717 but it wasnt in till almost one hundred yrs later that the anctients and moderns had their fued and at the conclustion you had the UGLE formation.  Hence the name "UNITED"  i might have my order mixed up though.......but I get what you were trying to say brother!
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my LG-H918 using My Freemasonry mobile app


I have to double check it I might have fudged it thank you for the correction, however Mainstream Scottishrite Divided itself and created the Northern Jurisdiction in order to wage war with a Clandestine Scottishrite order. Did they not finally absorb they order and reconstructed the Northern Jurisdiction? 
What Im saying is ignoring the issue of the clandestine bodies is not effective anymore. Mexico has more Clandestine lodges than a little and they are reaching out to the, Clandestine Prince Hall descendants. Regular Freemasonry needs to start copyrighting the symbols or something, other countries are organizing a conglomerate of bigus masonry, that the Clandestine in the states are now bragging that they too can now travel to foreign countries etc. 

Sent from my SM-G930P using My Freemasonry mobile app


----------



## acjohnson53

SMIB/G\


----------



## Brother JC

Ripcord22A said:


> If im not mistaken the Premire GL was formed in 1717 but it wasnt in till almost one hundred yrs later that the anctients and moderns had their fued and at the conclustion you had the UGLE formation.  Hence the name "UNITED"  i might have my order mixed up though.......but I get what you were trying to say brother!



And even after 1813 there were GLs formed that didn't agree with the uniting of the Ancients and Moderns. See the Wigan Grand Lodge for example.


----------



## Bloke

Brother JC said:


> And even after 1813 there were GLs formed that didn't agree with the uniting of the Ancients and Moderns. See the Wigan Grand Lodge for example.



I've not heard of Wigan.
It's not the best article but from a reputable source;
http://www.mqmagazine.co.uk/issue-13/p-34.php


----------



## Brother JC

http://www.academia.edu/19232884/Th..._and_Cheshire_Vol.160_Liverpool_2011_pp.67-88


----------



## Warrior1256

the_widows_son said:


> What Im saying is ignoring the issue of the clandestine bodies is not effective anymore.


True.


----------

