# Visiting Internationally



## Blake Bowden (Jul 1, 2012)

I know there are many Brethren who've visited Lodges abroad. My question, did you go through your respective Grand Lodge or did you *gasp* contact the Lodge you wished to visit directly? I've heard stories where Grand Lodges abroad can become quite irritated if you don't go through your Grand Secretary.


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## Traveling Man (Jul 1, 2012)

I was visiting internationally with the recommendation of a brother I had communication with for a long time.

I would never violate protocol and went to our grand secretary to get my traveling papers. The brother I was visiting vouched for me and introduced me to their investigating committee. I was pre-introduced to their sitting master and formally introduced in the tiled meeting to their sitting grand master. I mentioned the above to demonstrate the why of the protocol.


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## KSigMason (Jul 2, 2012)

I visited the Grand Orient of Italy, but I actually went through the Grand Commandery of Italy to visit and then went with one of the Sir Knights to Lodge on another day.


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## Frater Cliff Porter (Jul 2, 2012)

I have done both, but the best course of action is to arrange the visit through your Grand Secretary and make certain you have a patent as the rest of the world doesn't do dues cards.


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## KSigMason (Jul 2, 2012)

Frater Cliff Porter said:


> I have done both, but the best course of action is to arrange the visit through your Grand Secretary and make certain you have a patent as the rest of the world doesn't do dues cards.


 Normally I would have gone through my Grand Secretary, but due to the time change in Iraq and Italy, I couldn't get a hold of them in time.  You are right Cliff about the dues cards and patents.  I lucked out though with my dues cards.

I had a friend who copied and shrunk all of his various patents and certificates down into business card size so he had a copy in his wallet at all times.  Kind of ingenious.


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## tomoso (Jul 2, 2012)

I visited Argentine, Paraguay, Italy, and Malta.  Each time, I had a local sponsor, so I just went straight through them.  Seems like the first time, I contacted the GL of Texas, but I don't think I got a response before I left.


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## Timothy Fleischer (Jul 3, 2012)

I think the proper protocol is through your own Grand Secretary. You can browse the List of Lodges for the one you want to attend, but contact should go through the Grand Secretaries.


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## Blake Bowden (Jul 6, 2012)

Define patent. I presume it's like a Masonic Passport?


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## optargueta (Mar 12, 2013)

My fraternal greetings to all Brethren.


I will be in Houston next month to make a course, requested by the company that I work.


I am a Brazilian Freemason (First degree - apprentice) and would like to know if I can make a visit in one Lodge there.


I am not intending to stay in session, only know the place and people.


I am open to reply any questions, if you want to know more informations.


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## Wayne Simpson (Mar 29, 2013)

I would be interested in the answer from Houston.  Here in my part of Nova Scotia (Canada), if it can be shown you are indeed an EA in good standing, you would be very welcome to attend our meeting. We would just open and conduct business in the First Degree, especially for you.


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## Txmason (Mar 29, 2013)

Brother,

What part of Houston will you be staying in and what dates will you be in Houston?

I'd be glad to help! Texas is a great place to visit and eat! Let me know what I can do to help. 

Bro. Jerry Johnston 


Freemason Connect Mobile


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## rmorenc (Mar 29, 2013)

Blake Bowden said:


> I know there are many Brethren who've visited Lodges abroad. My question, did you go through your respective Grand Lodge or did you *gasp* contact the Lodge you wished to visit directly? I've heard stories where Grand Lodges abroad can become quite irritated if you don't go through your Grand Secretary.



I contacted the Grand Lodge of India directly once I moved here to inquire about what lodge to attend, especially since I was not sure which lodges met in English.  Luckily they were very welcoming, and put me in touch with a great lodge here outside of Pune.  Now we are trying to navigate the course for me to affiliate with this lodge (Level #41 in Kirkee, India).  The lodge secretary and I joke that by the time my expat assignment is over in mid-2014 that the paperwork just might be finished navigating from Level #41 - Western Regional Grand Lodge of India - GLI - GLoT and back again.


Freemason Connect Mobile


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## dfreybur (Apr 4, 2013)

Blake Bowden said:


> Define patent. I presume it's like a Masonic Passport?



When I've read on newsgroup soc.org.freemasonry about them they are Masonic documents endorsed by the GL confirming you are a Mason in good standing.  So it should be a big dues card by another name.

Lodges outside of the US or maybe outside of North America apparently use patents not dues cards.  I figure if I'm ever asked for my patent I'll ask "Do you mean a Masonic document endorsed by the GL confirming I'm a MM in good standing?  Here's mine" hand them my dues card and point out the GL crest on it.


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## optargueta (Apr 6, 2013)

Bro. Jerry Johnston and Bro. Wayne Simpson, thanks for the reply. I was consulting the Grand Orient of Brazil website and only M.`. M.`. can visit Lodges in other countries. There we can check all procedures to take the letter to be presented before the visit (through Grand Secretary) and other recommendations. Many many thanks, one more time, for replies. 

Bro. Jerry Johnston, I`ll be in Houston between Apr. 20th - Apr. 27th.

Fraternally,


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## HDJacome (Aug 21, 2013)

optargueta said:


> Bro. Jerry Johnston and Bro. Wayne Simpson, thanks for the reply. I was consulting the Grand Orient of Brazil website and only M.`. M.`. can visit Lodges in other countries. There we can check all procedures to take the letter to be presented before the visit (through Grand Secretary) and other recommendations. Many many thanks, one more time, for replies.
> 
> Bro. Jerry Johnston, I`ll be in Houston between Apr. 20th - Apr. 27th.
> 
> Fraternally,



Hi Bro. I am from Brazil too. My Lodge is located in Fortaleza. 


Freemason Connect HD


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## HDJacome (Sep 4, 2013)

Hi Bro. Next year will be soccer FIFA WC in my city. If some Brothers need information, just let me know. 


Freemason Connect HD


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## cemab4y (Oct 3, 2013)

I have attended lodges in five(5) foreign nations. I have never contacted my Grand Lodge ,prior to visiting. If you have a valid dues card (or patent) from a recognized Grand Lodge, just go to the international lodge, and ask for admittance. I did some research, though. I was traveling to Moscow, so I checked out the Grand Lodges of Russia, and got the schedule and location for Phoenix lodge #17. It was a great experience.

Visiting lodges, is part of the wages of a Master Mason.


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## rhunker (Oct 19, 2013)

I've traveled internationally also and have always requested a letter of introduction from my grand lodge and also attempted to contact the lodge I want to visit.  

I was recently reminded that it's important to find out if the lodge you plan to visit is recognized by your grand lodge AND to find out if  your grand lodge is recognized by the grand lodge you plan to visit.  For example, there are many GL's in Brazil, only one is recognized  by my GL.

My Freemasonry HD


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## Echevin (Nov 8, 2013)

Brethren

I'm visiting Rio in December. Does anyone have a suggestion of a lodge there that I may visit please?
I don't speak Portuguese unfortunately and am an English Freemason under UGLE and am a PM. 

Thank you!!

My Freemasonry HD[/QUOTE]


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## optargueta (Nov 8, 2013)

Bro Echevin, do you have a estimated date of your arrival? Many lodges have a break due the X-mas and New Year's Eve. My personal e-mail is optargueta@gmail.com
Rgds
OlegÃ¡rio Targueta
FC
ARLS Austin - 1952 (Grand Orient of Brazil)
Nova IguaÃ§u - RJ



My Freemasonry


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## Mike Martin (Nov 10, 2013)

Echevin said:


> I'm visiting Rio in December. Does anyone have a suggestion of a lodge there that I may visit please? I don't speak Portuguese unfortunately and am an English Freemason under UGLE and am a PM.



This post is a perfect case in point of one of the reasons why the protocols exist! 

If you ask your Lodge Secretary he will tell you that there are UGLE Lodges in Rio under the District Grand Lodge of South America , Northern Division and he will be able to give you the contact details or you can take them from the UGLE Website. You have no need of going any higher up the protocols as they are Lodges under your own Grand Lodge and despite the distance it is the same as visiting a Lodge in a different Province.


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## Mike Martin (Nov 10, 2013)

It should not be forgotten that although international Masonic protocols dictate that you may not communicate with a foreign Grand Lodge without going through your own Grand Secretary (or Grand Chancellor) that changes if you are actually in that Grand Lodges jurisdiction.

So for example if you were a Texas Mason in London we would not expect you to phone up the US before approaching the UGLE, however, there can be complications when proving yourself at an individual Lodge although in Grand Lodge we would just phone or email your Grand Secretary to check your membership status.

It's always worth remembering that elsewhere Freemasonry is not the same as in the States, a perfect example is that English Freemasons do not have such a thing as a "Dues Card", so if you came to one of our Lodges it would not prove anything to us. Another is that some of your signs are different to ours and so you might have difficulty proving yourself. The minimum thing that you MUST bring would be your Grand Lodge certificate and regalia.


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## dfreybur (Nov 11, 2013)

Mike Martin said:


> It should not be forgotten that although international Masonic protocols dictate that you may not communicate with a foreign Grand Lodge without going through your own Grand Secretary (or Grand Chancellor) that changes if you are actually in that Grand Lodges jurisdiction.
> 
> So for example if you were a Texas Mason in London we would not expect you to phone up the US before approaching the UGLE, however, there can be complications when proving yourself at an individual Lodge although in Grand Lodge we would just phone or email your Grand Secretary to check your membership status.



This makes short term trips problematic.  It can take longer to arrange a visit that the trip to the UK lasts I've heard.  Jurisdictions get to make rules like that if they want.  I happen to like the US system where I can show up and ask permission to visit, but that's because my mother jurisdiction encourages that.  I've been on business trips under a month long and been able to visit local lodges here in the US.  But your jurisdiction your rules, vive la difference.



> It's always worth remembering that elsewhere Freemasonry is not the same as in the States, a perfect example is that English Freemasons do not have such a thing as a "Dues Card", so if you came to one of our Lodges it would not prove anything to us. Another is that some of your signs are different to ours and so you might have difficulty proving yourself. The minimum thing that you MUST bring would be your Grand Lodge certificate and regalia.



The Grand Lodge certificate is a form printed by the GL issued within the last year and signed by your lodge's Secretary attesting that you are a member in good standing, right?  I've seen sizable papers of that sort.  In the US we have exactly that same type of form but we print them on smaller paper and use a different name for them.  We call them dues cards.  Different name, same system.

As to bringing your own regalia that's a very nice idea.  I like encouraging brothers to bring their own apron.  As US lodges keep a supply of aprons most brothers who bring aprons bring PM ones or other aprons of office.


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## Echevin (Nov 11, 2013)

Thanks all. This is very helpful.


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## Mike Martin (Nov 11, 2013)

dfreybur said:


> This makes short term trips problematic.  It can take longer to arrange a visit that the trip to the UK lasts I've heard.  Jurisdictions get to make rules like that if they want.  I happen to like the US system where I can show up and ask permission to visit, but that's because my mother jurisdiction encourages that.  I've been on business trips under a month long and been able to visit local lodges here in the US.  But your jurisdiction your rules, vive la difference.


Hi Doug you might have read my post too quickly, so just to be clear, The protocol is that if you are physically in the territory of a foreign Grand Lodge you can talk to it with out going through your own Grand Secretary



dfreybur said:


> The Grand Lodge certificate is a form printed by the GL issued within the last year and signed by your lodge's Secretary attesting that you are a member in good standing, right?  I've seen sizable papers of that sort.  In the US we have exactly that same type of form but we print them on smaller paper and use a different name for them.  We call them dues cards.  Different name, same system.


A slight confusion here and as always it is the differences that makes it interesting. A Grand Lodge certificate is the certificate issued by the Grand Secretary and signed by the Candidate on the completion of his Third Degree, he is issued only the one at that one time. It does not in any way illustrate a brother's standing, financially or otherwise, with his Lodge it proves that he has been made a Master Mason by a Lodge under the UGLE. So as I said we do not have dues cards, although when a brother resigns from a Lodge he can request a "clearance certificate" I think you would call it a "Demit" which proves that he resigned in good standing, he can also request one of these if he wishes to join another Lodge but they are not issued generally. 



dfreybur said:


> As to bringing your own regalia that's a very nice idea.  I like encouraging brothers to bring their own apron.  As US lodges keep a supply of aprons most brothers who bring aprons bring PM ones or other aprons of office.


Another difference! The only aprons that an English  Lodge will have spare will be a couple of EA and FC ones. This is because when a brother under the UGLE has been Raised he purchases his own MM apron and will use that until such time that he becomes the Master of a Lodge when he will change it for the apron of an Installed Master.


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## MarkR (Nov 16, 2013)

Mike Martin said:


> Another difference! The only aprons that an English  Lodge will have spare will be a couple of EA and FC ones. This is because when a brother under the UGLE has been Raised he purchases his own MM apron and will use that until such time that he becomes the Master of a Lodge when he will change it for the apron of an Installed Master.


That's interesting, because I read the The Square Magazine that UGLE regulations specify that foreign visitors to UGLE lodges MUST wear UGLE regalia, and cannot wear their own if it doesn't conform.  My Past Master apron does not have the levels of a UGLE PM, it has the square, quadrant and compasses with a blazing sun in the center that is appropriate for a PM in my jurisdiction.  Since you don't have loaners and mine isn't permitted, I wonder what I'd do?


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## Mike Martin (Nov 16, 2013)

MarkR said:


> That's interesting, because I read the The Square Magazine that UGLE regulations specify that foreign visitors to UGLE lodges MUST wear UGLE regalia, and cannot wear their own if it doesn't conform.  My Past Master apron does not have the levels of a UGLE PM, it has the square, quadrant and compasses with a blazing sun in the center that is appropriate for a PM in my jurisdiction.  Since you don't have loaners and mine isn't permitted, I wonder what I'd do?


Hi Mark,
I would suggest that you re-read it because either you misread it or the person who wrote it is an idiot. The ONLY Masons who MUST wear UGLE regalia in UGLE Lodges are UGLE Masons.

The only time where there might be a small hesitation would be a Freemason who holds dual membership. For example if they were a subscribing member of a foreign GL AND a subscribing member of a UGLE Lodge (such as the Internet Lodge), under those circumstances he should wear the appropriate regalia and for you that would be an MM's apron as you are not an Installed Master under the UGLE.

Having been a (correspondence) member of Quatuor Coronati Lodge 2076 for nearly 20 years I can confirm not just the rule but the practise. We nearly always have overseas visitors (usually correspondence members too) at meetings and I have yet to see any one try and get them into English Regalia.


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## MarkR (Nov 17, 2013)

Yes, I misread it.  It was referring to Past Masters from other jurisdictions who *join *an English Constitution lodge, not merely visit. 

 It says they may not wear the PM apron of the other jurisdiction, but may wear the PM apron of the UGLE with the three levels, but may not wear the collar of a PM until they have sat in the east in an English lodge.

There was a rather confusing sentence in the article: "The Board wishes to remind Brethren who have joined Lodges of the English Constitutions from other Constitutions that they must wear English regalia in English Lodges, whether they are present as members or as visitors."  That is a bit unclear. (The Square, Sept. 2013 issue, P. 55)


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## Mike Martin (Nov 17, 2013)

Hi Mark,

As I wrote it's the difference between Visiting and Joining (aka becoming a subscribing member) a Lodge within the UGLE.


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## cemab4y (Dec 1, 2013)

Interesting responses. I would encourage any Mason, who wishes to visit a lodge in a foreign country, to do your research. You should contact the WM/Secretary or a member of the lodge, and inquire. Get the location, meeting time, and as many specifics as you can. Some foreign lodges, require you to wear a coat and tie. Also check with your home lodge and Grand Lodge, and ensure that the Grand Lodge which holds the charter for the lodge you wish to visit, has fraternal relations with your home Grand Lodge. You might be charged with visiting a "clandestine" lodge. 

When I lived in Paris, there were five (5) different Grand Lodges, only one of which was recognized by my home Grand Lodge. Unhappily, the National Grand Lodge of France (GLNF) has be de-recognized  by my Grand Lodge.  :-(  I could not attend if I lived in France now. 

Be on your guard. I have enjoyed international visitation very much. My experience in Moscow, was unforgettable.


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