# Rosicrucian?



## rhitland (Jun 24, 2009)

Have you ever heard of this order and would you ever join?
They have similiarties to Masonry but yet much much diffrent, I was first turned onto the order when I found out Ben Franklin was one whom I idiolize and then after researching it more and more I find myself drawn to it, but wanted to see what you Brothers knew or thought about it? 


http://www.rosicrucian.org/
they website is very well done.


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## cambridgemason (Jun 24, 2009)

heard of them, read very little on them, and there is a what they call a Lodge over in Boston, Massachusetts. All I know.


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## tomasball (Jun 26, 2009)

Could you offer some documentary evidence that Benjamin Franklin was a member of AMORC?

T. Ball
San Juan 1173


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## rhitland (Jun 26, 2009)

Below is a brief explanation on how it is known Ben Franklin was a Rosicrucian along with a link to the Rosicrucian's offical website and their claim to his membership.

http://www.rosicrucian.org/about/mastery/mastery08history.html

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/2216/Ephrata_Presentation/56_Ephrata.htm

Benjamin Franklin was born in Boston 
[1706-1790] We all have wondered how it is known that Benjamin Franklin [1706-1790] was a Rosicrucian.  Well, it is partly by reading what he wroteâ€”through his writing, we can recognize his Rosicrucianism.  However, Manly P. Hall wrote that Franklin's signature appears on the ledgerâ€”above that of Marquis de Lafayette, he pointed outâ€”at the Lodge of Perfection in France.   That Lodge is considered to have been "the greatest of all French lodges" as Hall wrote it.  In The Secret Destiny of America, he said of Franklin in America: 
"Franklin spoke for the Order of the Quest, and most of the men who worked with him in the early days of the American Revolution were also members.  The plan was working out, the New Atlantis was coming into being, in accordance with the program laid down by Francis Bacon a hundred and fifty years earlier. 
"The rise of American democracy was necessary to a world program.  At the appointed hour, the freedom of man was publicly declared."

Imperator Gary L. Stewart, in 1984, stated that it is known that both Rosicrucians and Martinists attended that French Lodge of Perfection.  The Order of the Quest is another of different spiritual Orders tied with the Rosicrucian movement of initiatic individuals, that functioned generally in connection with the western esoteric tradition.  It was  sometimes referred to as the western mystery tradition.  Brethren of the Rosicrucians were usually members of more than one secret society.  Chapters of Perfection included leaders from religions and scientific organizations, as well as esoteric and humanitarian orders.


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## gortex6 (Jun 26, 2009)

The original 1614 Rosicrucian order
The Fraternitas RosÃ¦ Crucis
(famous members of this order)

Masonic Rosicrucians
The Societas Rosicruciana in Civitatibus Foederatis

anything else is a hoax and a ripoff


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## gortex6 (Jun 26, 2009)

rhitland said:


> Have you ever heard of this order and would you ever join?
> They have similiarties to Masonry but yet much much diffrent, I was first turned onto the order when I found out Ben Franklin was one whom I idiolize and then after researching it more and more I find myself drawn to it, but wanted to see what you Brothers knew or thought about it?
> 
> 
> ...



Mail order enlightenment


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## tomasball (Jun 26, 2009)

In other words, it's fun to imagine that Benjamin Franklin was a Rosicrucian, just like it's fun to imagine Da Vinci was, but unlike his membership in Masonry, there's no documentary evidence.



rhitland said:


> Below is a brief explanation on how it is known Ben Franklin was a Rosicrucian along with a link to the Rosicrucian's offical website and their claim to his membership.
> 
> http://www.rosicrucian.org/about/mastery/mastery08history.html
> 
> ...


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## rhitland (Jun 27, 2009)

I was not trying to convince you, I was merly sharing info I have found and yeah it is fun and spiritual so why would you try and rob that of someone when you do not know if he was or was not for sure either?


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## rhitland (Jun 27, 2009)

Brother tomasball I am very intrested in seeing the documentation that proves Brother Ben Franklin was not a Rosicrucian.


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## Traveling Man (Jun 28, 2009)

*Mail Order Enlightenment...*



rhitland said:


> Brother tomasball I am very interested in seeing the documentation that proves Brother Ben Franklin was not a Rosicrucian.



Brother rhitland, not to be contrarian, but wouldnâ€™t it be wise to use the scientific proof positive approach?
Not using this type of analysis is what starts fables such as Thomas Jefferson being declared a Mason, when in fact, there is no proof that he was and therefore it is a false claim.

Here is a reinforced myth; Thomas Jefferson was supposed to be a Rosicrucian but according to my research (at the time) one had to be a Mason in order to be a Rosicrucian, and he was not. So how does that work? 

There is a lot of romanticism, some true, some wishful thinking. This sounds like an interesting project, but be warned some of these myths have been already debunked.


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## rhitland (Jun 28, 2009)

Ben Franklin's membership in the rosicrucians does have a shroud of dought in that the Martinist met at the Lodge of Perfection on occasion also but seeing that his way of life and believes did not line up with the Martinists as well as the teaching of Rosicrucianism it is believed by almost all scholars he was there for a Rosicrucian meeting which is what normaly took place in that lodge. I myself am merley agreeing with the findings of the majority who have researched the subject more thurley. I would not ask anyone to believe it on my say so. 
Alot of things we are told as facts are merley based on context clues of history and writtings of the most powerful at the time and we are left to believe them as false or true with sometime no physical evidence at all such as the Temple of Solomon. 
Well we have really wonder from my intention on the thread but it has turned into a great conversation non the less thanks for all the input and keep it coming.


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## tomasball (Jun 29, 2009)

rhitland said:


> I myself am merley agreeing with the findings of the majority who have researched the subject more thurley.




Are we talking about the Lodge of Perfection in Bordeaux, that gave Stephen Morin the patent he used to propagate the forerunner of the Scottish Rite?  

Is there any source for Franklin attending this lodge other than Manly Hall?  I have noticed that a lot of his "research" comes from divine revelations.


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## rhitland (Jul 4, 2009)

tomasball said:


> Are we talking about the Lodge of Perfection in Bordeaux, that gave Stephen Morin the patent he used to propagate the forerunner of the Scottish Rite?
> 
> Is there any source for Franklin attending this lodge other than Manly Hall?  I have noticed that a lot of his "research" comes from divine revelations.



Could not find anything that said Lodge of Perfection in Bordeaux it only refrenced it as being in France no specific town or village I could find but I did not spend nearly enough time looking so I will check into that more in my free time.

I am not sure what else could be discovedred from a secrect meeting, I always thought Brother Hall was lucky to even find the sign in sheet but I do not believe this alone is proof as the sheet has no refrence to the actual purpose of the gathering we are just left to reason. Looking into this the last couple of days I found quite a few books making refrence to Ben Franklin being a Rosicrucian but as there was no better explanation than what I offered earlier I will leave this one at "Divine revelation". 

It has been awhile since I read up on Franklin and I forgot how much he inspires me that man was something else, thanks for the nudge Brother tomasball.


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## Traveling Man (Jul 4, 2009)

*Les Neuf SÅ“urs*

Source Wiki Encyclopaedia: Benjamin Franklin

Les Neuf Sœurs (The Lodge of Nine Sisters (or Muses)) 

Note: French Grand Orient de France(FWIW) 

In 1778, the year Voltaire became an honorary member, Benjamin Franklin and John Paul Jones also were accepted. Benjamin Franklin became Master of the Lodge in 1779, and was re-elected in 1780. When Franklin, after a long and influential stay in Europe, returned to America to participate in the writing of the Constitution, Thomas Jefferson took over as American Envoy.

Source: Masonic Dictionary indicates his Masonic initiation as: 

1730-1, February, initiated in Saint John's Lodge, Philadelphia.

However as the above date time line “may” suggest he may have been present at one of Cagliostros presentations of “Egyptian Freemasonry” (an adoptive rite) which some have conveniently interpreted as Rosicrucian. Which of course claims “antiquity” as in “time in memorial” and so on…

After reading about AMORC rituals and Joseph Smith and Cagliostros Egyptian Rite (and some of the American York Rite) they appear all the same. Coincidence? I don’t think so… But hey that’s just me. VBG


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## A7V (Jul 6, 2009)

gortex6 said:


> Mail order enlightenment



I believe you are wrong on this one.   It is not mail order enlightenment, AMORC has lodges and they do work in those lodges.   There is one here in San Antonio.


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## A7V (Jul 6, 2009)

gortex6 said:


> The original 1614 Rosicrucian order
> The Fraternitas RosÃ¦ Crucis
> (famous members of this order)
> 
> ...



Wow, anything else is a hoax and a ripoff?  Where do you get this from?   Is it because they are not tied to Freemasonry you think this?

It is true that the SRIA and MSRICF are older than the AMORC but neither can truly trace itself back to 1614 just like no current Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn can trace itself back to what Mathers, Westcott and Woodman founded without argument.

It can be argued that AMORC can trace its lineage to a working lodge of Rosicrucians in France when Lewis was initiated in 1909, while SRIA was founded in 1867 in Scotland and bases its claim to lineage from the original German texts.  Anyone can do that.   The work that SRIA did was created just like the work of AMORC from a multitude of places.

Okay, I will stop ranting, but I hope you can see how claiming a true lineage and dismissing others on matters esoteric is like pissing in the wind, it can blow back on you!

Your claim that these other organizations are hoax's and ripoffs is basically just puffing up your chest and pretending to be important because you are a member of this organization and not that one.

I hate to tell you this but no one organization has a monopoly on enlightenment or wisdom.


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## TCShelton (Jul 7, 2009)

A7V said:


> I hate to tell you this but no one organization has a monopoly on enlightenment or wisdom.



+1.


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## ftwthFATS (Jul 10, 2009)

none of them were members. its all a fairy tale


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## rhitland (Jul 10, 2009)

ftwthFATS said:


> none of them were members. its all a fairy tale



Fairy Tale?, never thought of it that way. That suits me just fine fairy tale it is.


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## Griffin (Oct 24, 2009)

Brothers,

The following reading list is offered for anyone with a serious interest in this topic. These books are the best historical scholarship available today on the origins and development of the Rosicrucian movement. (Click on the title to see the Amazon.com listing)


The Golden Builders


The Invisible History of the Rosicrucians

The Rosicrucians

The Rosicrucian Enlightenment

The Rosicrucian Enlightenment Revisited


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## Griffin (Oct 25, 2009)

Regarding the SRICF (Societas Rosicruciana in Civitatibus Foederatus)



> _THE AIM OF THE SOCIETY
> 
> The aim of the Society is to afford mutual aid and encouragement in working out the great problems of Life; and in searching out the secrets of Nature; to facilitate the study of the system of Philosophy founded upon the Kabalah and the doctrine of Hermes Trismegitus, which was inculcated by the original Fratres Rosae Crucis, A.D. 1450; and to investigate the meaning and symbolism of all that now remains of the wisdom, art and literature of the ancient world.
> _
> http://www.sricf-ca.org/aim.htm



My understanding is that a few colleges of the SRICF have long been Rosicrucian in name and symbolism only.  By that I mean they apparently have little interest or effort given to the aims stated above.  Not being a member, I can't make any claims about the concerns of the Texas College, but would invite anyone with firsthand knowledge to speak on this point.

In any case, as it has been noted, this body is by invitation only and so I would encourage Masons interested in Rosicrucianism to not wait for membership in the SRICF before seeking more light within this beautiful tradition.


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## Griffin (Oct 25, 2009)

Brothers,

I can personally recommend the following Rosicrucian related resources online:

History & Doctrines of the Rose-Croix

Spiritual Healing

The Rosicrucian Impulse: Magic, Mysticism and Ritual

Unfurling the Rose of the Rosicrucian Cross

Manifestations of the Neo-Rosicrucian Current 
(This is no longer a complete listing of recently or currently functioning orders, but still helpful.)


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## Jamesb (Dec 21, 2009)

Be careful though brothers:  If you ever had the thought of being "invited to join" the Masonic Rosicrucians (at least here in Texas) do NOT join the Rosicrucians.  They have seperated themselves and if you are a member of one you cannot be a member of the other.  I asked about it, and was told by a member of the Texas College.


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## dhouseholder (Dec 21, 2009)

Why can you not be a Mason and a RC? Who separated from who?


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## Jamesb (Dec 22, 2009)

I was informed that you cannot be a Masonic Rosicrucian and a AMORC

You can be a Mason and a Rosicrucian but not a member of the Masonic Rosicrucians


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## Jay (Dec 22, 2009)

Brother Rhitland please P.M. me, I have a old book I would be pleased to lone you.


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## Frater Cliff Porter (Dec 22, 2009)

Just a note on the reference to Benjamin Franklin.  He was a "joiner" and appears to have found much enjoying the different mystical traditions, especially those that would "revolutionize" the Enlightenment.  It is known that he was associated with the degrÃ©s Ã©cossais, which, I believe it was stated, would later lend some of their material to the Scottish Rite's degrees.

Martinism in the manner and form it exist today had not truly been "born" although the man who would espouse its ideas had.  Louis Claud de St. Martin was influenced a bit by degrÃ©s Ã©cossais himself, especially that of Order des Elus-Cohens, where he would be exposed to the ritualized progress of initiatic tradition, although, it is fair to say his emphasis was on meditation and Papus or Gerard Encausse would lend more to the form and structure of the Martinism we recognize today.

Last, Martinism, from what I can gather, is much different than the Masonry we have come to know, in that, it treats itself much like a secret society.  Its members names are not written, they wear items to conceal their identity even from one another, etc. and what is known of their inner doctrine is still limited to the outside world even in this world of brochure initiation.  The one so called Martinist order that sold on-line initiations and the like is not recognized by any legitimate Martist order in the world.

So, just for playing devil's advocate.....if Franklin was a Martinist, he likely would have told no one, there would be no written record of it, and it is likely only those who shared the way with him would know it.


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## dhouseholder (Dec 24, 2009)

Jamesb said:


> I was informed that you cannot be a Masonic Rosicrucian and a AMORC
> 
> You can be a Mason and a Rosicrucian but not a member of the Masonic Rosicrucians


 Specifically why not? Who told you that?


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## Payne (Dec 26, 2009)

I find them interesting...


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## Jamesb (Dec 28, 2009)

I asked the Top Dog of the Rosicrucians here in Houston, about "What is a Masonic Rosicrucian?"( he is in the Scottish Rite here) {I am sorry but I cannot remember his name} and after he told me that it was an invitation only organization that "You will not be ask to join if you are an AMORC"  I ask him why and he stated that the we are seperate organizations and to allow them to intermingle would disrupt the intent of one or both.  He did not elaborate.


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## Frater Cliff Porter (Dec 28, 2009)

In Colorado if you are AMORC you would not be invited.  So it is the same here.  We specifically ask if you are a member of any other Rosicrucian Order.


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## JEbeling (Dec 29, 2009)

I may be slow... ! but I read thru these post and I don't have a clue what they are talking about...? the first thing that came to mind is WHO are these people and WHAT are they trying to do...? when ask to join are they part of masonary..? this just seem strange to me...? not sure I want any part of people who are not above board... in the open ... and clear about their agenda...?


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## Ecossais (Mar 27, 2012)

In the words of Alvy Singer, after being asked if he was a Rosicrucian, "No. I could never join a religion that advertises in Mechanics Illustrated."


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## BryanMaloney (Mar 27, 2012)

rhitland said:


> Brother tomasball I am very intrested in seeing the documentation that proves Brother Ben Franklin was not a Rosicrucian.


 
I would be very interested in seeing the documentation that proves Ben Franklin was not a Martian.


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## Traveling Man (Mar 27, 2012)

I see we are still trying to prove a negative, good luck with that...:12:


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## promason (Apr 12, 2012)

I think Rosicrucian are related to Templars spirituality and may be a templar spiritual way,I will check the site


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