# What would or did you do?



## Luke (Jul 28, 2009)

If you find out your brother, friend or loved one has joined up with a clandestine lodge what would you do? Have any of you had to deal with this before? Do you tell them even if they seem happy? Do you inform the GL? 

Any answer is a good answer even if this makes you mad. It kind of makes me mad.


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## TCShelton (Jul 28, 2009)

You don't do anything.  Let him be happy.


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## RJS (Jul 28, 2009)

TCShelton said:


> You don't do anything.  Let him be happy.



+1


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## js4253 (Jul 28, 2009)

I would explain the difference to the person.  If he is involved and happy with his lodge, what can you say, let him do his thing.  There is something special about belonging to a Lodge that is recognized by thousands of other Lodges around the world.


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## Blake Bowden (Jul 28, 2009)

TCShelton said:


> You don't do anything.  Let him be happy.



Agreed


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## cemab4y (Jul 29, 2009)

Here in the USA, I would say "MYOB". However, in Europe, the case is much different. France has five (5) grand lodges. Only one, the National Grand Lodge of France, is recognized by the mother grand Lodge in England. The other four, admit atheists, and pratice rituals that are far removed from anything remotely "Masonic".  Their reputation is so bad, that many legitimate masons do not wear any masonic jewelry, nor identify themselves as Masons. 

If a friend of mine participated in a lodge of this nature, I would feel duty-bound to warn him.


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## JTM (Jul 29, 2009)

i get the impression you are saying "clandestine" in a derogatory manner.  it's only clandestine because our GL doesn't recognize theirs... not necessarily that they are in any way a bad lodge.

but i would obviously want them to be able to sit in lodge with me.


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## scottmh59 (Jul 29, 2009)

as long as the person knows that we couldnt sit in a lodge together,and is cool with that.. then to each his own. who am i to tell him that my lodge is better than his.


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## rhitland (Jul 29, 2009)

I would embrace the fact he had an intiatiac experience and enjoy the conversations that ensued.


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## Luke (Jul 29, 2009)

I wasn't asking for advice for my and my brothers situation. I was merely asking the question "What would you do" if you were in this position. I am going to leave this alone for several reasons. First, he and his brothers are happy and I wouldn't want to change that. Secondly, I get a kick out of him being in a fake lodge. Finally, they aren't doing anything to give Freemasons a bad name and they might do something good for their community.  
As far as I know there are only two GL's, Prince Hall and Blue lodge. If you are in a lodge not recognized by those two GL's you are not a mason. (In my opinion of course) On the other hand, if you just, willy nilly, create lodges when or where ever you want wouldn't this be wrong? What says I have to follow the rules when that other guy doesn't? If I break the rules for a long enough time everyone will just accept it as the rules.  If I find I don't like some aspects of "real" Freemasonry could I run off and start my own lodge? If this is the case what stops me from telling anyone, especially my fiancee, the "secrets"? 
I believe we should follow the rules and this is why it upsets me that my brother is in a fake lodge and doesn't even know it. I believe the fake Freemasons that started that lodge should be held responsible for their actions. If my brother would just stop and research a little he would know he was in a fake lodge. 
Sorry to just stop but I have to cook dinner. There are more issues I see with this topic but it will have to be saved for another time.


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## TCShelton (Jul 29, 2009)

I gotta agree with Bro. Scott on this one.  Who are we to judge what is "fake?"  Odds are, their degrees are quite similar to ours, and the obligations are probably almost identical.  If that is indeed the case, what is the difference between you and your brother, other than the Grand Lodges/Lodges you belong to?  Like Bro. Rhit said, the initiatic process is the important part.  Just because we don't masonically recognize it, it is no less "real."


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## js4253 (Jul 29, 2009)

Luke,
Your brother probably didn't know that he was joining a clandestine lodge.  The people he is dealing with didn't explain the situation to him.  I know they know the difference but don't want to address the issue. 
 You as a Texas Mason are not allowed to attend a clandestine lodge nor have Masonic discussions with clandestine masons.  This will be covered with you when you become a Master Mason.
However, it is like JTM said, just because GLOT considers your brother's lodge clandestine, that doesn't mean they are bad people.  They just don't have a charter from a recognized Grand Lodge.
The problem is that before you become a Mason, you really don't know anything about it if you don't have a friend or family member who is a Mason that can advise you.


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## TCShelton (Jul 29, 2009)

js4253 said:


> The problem is that before you become a Mason, you really don't know anything about it if you don't have a friend or family member who is a Mason that can advise you.



Man, ain't that the truth.


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## scottmh59 (Jul 29, 2009)

Quote:
Originally Posted by js4253  
The problem is that before you become a Mason, you really don't know anything about it if you don't have a friend or family member who is a Mason that can advise you 

i am the first in my family to become a mason,so for all i knew the lodge i was joining wasnt real. so how do we as freemasons let the world know who we are? with all the stuff that is posted online,who can really say what is real and what isnt. it all comes down to your own faith in the work you are entering upon. and if that is masonry to you then that is all that counts in the end....just my opinion of course


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## Taurus27 (Jul 29, 2009)

Luke said:


> If you find out your brother, friend or loved one has joined up with a clandestine lodge what would you do? Have any of you had to deal with this before? Do you tell them even if they seem happy? Do you inform the GL?
> 
> Any answer is a good answer even if this makes you mad. It kind of makes me mad.



I'm glad that this topic has come up as it's realism at it's best.
There are many Masons out there who really don't know the term "Regular" or worse still "Clandestine" and until they find out, then they'll never learn, nor take the steps to correct the error in which they find themselves.
I belong to another forum and we have actually had members join and then they have discovered that they are members of a Clandestine Lodge and the worst thing is that the members of these Clandestine lodges do not tell the new members that the lodge that they have joined is "BOGUS".
Well, when these "newbies" find out, to their credit......they do something about it and on advice from Regular members, have demitted from the bogus lodges and joined Mainstream.
If my memory is correct, there have been two who have joined M/S and have been thankful for the help and assistance provided to them.
Both stated that they were never told that they were joining a bogus lodge.


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## Roostor (Jul 30, 2009)

Luke said:


> If you find out your brother, friend or loved one has joined up with a clandestine lodge what would you do? Have any of you had to deal with this before? Do you tell them even if they seem happy? Do you inform the GL?
> 
> Any answer is a good answer even if this makes you mad. It kind of makes me mad.



In my opinion, you should explain in a considerate manner, that his lodge is not recognized by your Grand Lodge, which will prevent you from having Masonic communication with him, including the fact you will not be able to go to his lodge or vice versa.

So far as informing the GL.....what's to inform? The only reason to inform the GL would be if he is a member in the Grand Lodge of Texas, and now goes to a clandestine lodge...but that's a whole different can of worms.


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## drapetomaniac (Jul 30, 2009)

I think I would want to know.  Imagine investing a lot of time and energy, and years only to try to affiliate or do something else in the Masonic community and be rejected.  Whether its traveling or joining an appendant body.

It would be worse if there was someone close to me who knew the whole time.


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## owls84 (Jul 30, 2009)

I would inform them that you couldn't sit in Lodge or speak of the work but you can still discuss anything you can with a candidate. Who is to say our Masonry is right? There are "clandestine" Lodges that are just as effective, if not more, than "Mainsteam" Masonry. 

Again I would just let them know that the Lodge is not recognized by your Lodge. It doesn't make them evil.


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## Sirius (Jul 30, 2009)

TCShelton said:


> You don't do anything.  Let him be happy.



To many things to do to keep up with my friends and loved ones social habits. 

Which reminds me, Tom you need to quit that Hell Fire Club. Those people have _way_ to much fun.


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## TCShelton (Jul 30, 2009)

Sirius said:


> Which reminds me, Tom you need to quit that Hell Fire Club. Those people have _way_ to much fun.



Haha, I only wish I knew what you are talking about...


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## rhitland (Jul 31, 2009)

TCShelton said:


> Haha, I only wish I knew what you are talking about...



the natural response of a hellfirian!


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## Bro. Gerry Kendle (Aug 1, 2009)

js4253 said:


> I would explain the difference to the person.  If he is involved and happy with his lodge, what can you say, let him do his thing.  There is something special about belonging to a Lodge that is recognized by thousands of other Lodges around the world.





Ditto


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