# An honest question for all.



## BEDickey (Oct 25, 2011)

Hello, I'm Brandon and I'm a Hermeticist. I wish to ask an honest question about Volume of Sacred Law. As a Hermeticist the 78 loose leaf pages of the Tarot, also called the "Book of Thoth" or "Emerald Tablets of Hermes" is my Holy Book. In fact my studies have proven to me that the Tarot predates the Bible as a Holy Book. Man learned to write symbols before words, so it only stands to reason that the first Holy Book was written in picture and symbols. As such I wish to ask, would I be with in my rights to ask for my Holy Book to be present on the alter at my initiation?  I have accepted that I can't take my oaths on them, but another poster said it best, as a Christian if he was told to take his vows on a Koran or Torah it would be the equivalent of taking his vows on a dictionary, no meaning to him. I understand the request seems a bit off, but I would like everyone's honest opinion. Thanks for your time. 

Brandon

Also if anyone wishes I would gladly explain my reasoning as to how the Tarot is in fact Holy Scripture.


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## JJones (Oct 25, 2011)

Hello there, welcome to the forums.

I have to ask, as I haven't delved into Hermetism much myself, but I'm curious what your beliefs are as a Hermeticist?  More specifically however, what are a Hermeticist's belief in deity?

I hope you don't mind me asking.


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## BEDickey (Oct 25, 2011)

*Of Course*

I have no problem with that at all! The search for Light is the search for answers to life mysteries.
 Hermeticism is a philosophical religion dating from around the same time as Christianity, though it's roots are much older, going back to the Ancient Egyptian and Greek Mystery schools, similar in that respect to Freemasonry. It's deity is "panetheistic", called The All, The Absolute, The Father, The Universal Mother, among many names. "Panetheistic" beliefs are best described with the Hermetic maxim "While All is in The All, it is equally true that The All is in All." Our deity is by necessity androgynous, containing both masculine and feminine aspects in perfect equilibrium. 
The Story goes that Hermes Tristmegistus (thrice great Hermes, also Thoth or Mercurius ter Maximus) fell asleep on a hill and met Poimandres the Nous(mind) of the Supreme, who taught Hermes the 3 parts of the Wisdom of the Whole Universe,  Alchemy(knowledge of the sun/light/nature), Astrology(knowledge of the moon/stars/darkness) and Theurgy(knowledge and use of Divine Magic). Those who master all 3 as Hermes did, is able to move with the Universe in such a way as to be in a state similar to Lucid Dreaming, even while awake.
To acquire these teaching we use the 4 Hermetic Arts - Astrology, Qabalah, Numerology and especially the Tarot, where the 3 others come together, in a most amazing way. It is said that someone with the Tarot, true knowledge of its use, locked away for years can emerge with complete knowledge on any subject.
An easy way of seeing it is this way, if God is the shepherd and we are the sheep, could you imagine God running around with a shepherds' crook trying to gather the sheep together or defend them? No of course not, the thought alone makes me laugh honestly. He uses the Sheep dog for that reason. Hermes is that sheep dog, conveying God' gnosis and love to those who are ready for it, but it is not for the faint hearted or uncommitted. The knowledge will only be available to the just, the true, the honest and moral Man or Woman. Some evil people can and have gained some of that Gnosis but the All will never give it's highest secrets to the undeserving. Hermes himself was told to be the one to gift Man with all knowledge inc. writing, geometry, medicine and all other "high arts", and has been thought of as possibly being Moses, or even King Solomon himself.
 So much could be said about Hermeticism I could not list it all here, but feel free to ask any and all questions, I will gladly answer. I hope this has some what answered your question.


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## LCWebb (Oct 26, 2011)

Hermes as in Mercury?


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## BEDickey (Oct 26, 2011)

*yes*

Yes indeed they are one in the same. Mercurius Ter Maximus was his Roman name, Hermes Tristmegistus his Greek and Thoth his Ancient Egyptian.


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## JJones (Oct 26, 2011)

That sounds like a very interesting subject, thank you for sharing.

I remember that I've tried getting into the subject once before and tried looking up the emerald tablets online, but what I found was either very condensed or I simply wasn't very receptive at the time.  Maybe after I finish college I won't feel so distracted when trying to study things like that. 

As for using the Tarot as your holy book, I'd suggest your best bet would be to discuss it with the WM of your lodge.  I hope someone would correct me if I'm wrong, but if I understand correctly, as long as you have a belief in a monotheistic deity then you have a right to request usage of the appropriate holy book.

Don't quote me on that unless someone else confirms it though, I've been known to be mistaken before, once.


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## Paul E. Wunsche (Oct 26, 2011)

If you don't mind my asking, why do you want to be a Mason?


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## BEDickey (Oct 26, 2011)

I do not mind at all! I, as most here I believe, think of my self as a good man. However I also wish to be a better man. I have seen most Freemasons as honest, independent, moral, upstanding members of their community. Those are the same foundations I wish for me and my family. Some of my Hero's, the Founding Fathers mostly, were Freemasons and I would very much enjoy sharing that with them. Also I will admit, the esoteric nature of Freemasonry draws me a bit as well, as my own religion once was a "mystery religion" just as Christianity once was, complete with its own rituals, those have long sense disappeared but I believe, for me, Freemasonry can help to fill the void that is left. While I know Freemasonry is not a religion, it can help Men find their own way of becoming closer to God. The Charity done by Freemasons is another aspect in and of it self, I have a great desire to give back to the world that has given me so much beauty to behold.  Also a lot of what I know of my Faith comes from Masonic writers such as Manly Palmer Hall and A.E. Waite. And a Knight Templar Mason once told me that the 3 greatest libraries in the USA are Masonic in origin, and I do so love books and knowledge. These are but a few of the reasons, but I think they are the most important


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## LukeD (Oct 26, 2011)

Well said.


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## gnarledrose (Oct 27, 2011)

'Round these here parts (Utah), you would be invited to use whatever holy writings you chose for both your degrees and to have them available along the Holy Bible in regular meetings. The brothers around here, however, seem shy about asking, so I've only seen an alternate book used in lodge once.


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## Bill Lins (Oct 27, 2011)

JJones said:


> if I understand correctly, as long as you have a belief in a monotheistic deity then you have a right to request usage of the appropriate holy book.



You are correct.


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## mathew (Nov 1, 2011)

*good on you*

I am from a lodge in Australia and I think it it is great what you want to do. 
What you wish to do with your own holy book is just the kind of thing (and person) to carry freemasonry into the 21st century. 
Well done.


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## peace out (Nov 2, 2011)

BEDickey, I think you should ask if important to you.  Just prepare yourself for what ever answer you may receive in return.


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## bullrack33 (Nov 6, 2011)

BE, it is my personally opinion that you would be well within your right to ask that your Book of Faith be present on the Alter. You might it interesting to know that there are a few Wiccans in my Lodge.


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## BEDickey (Nov 6, 2011)

*indeed*

Indeed I have heard of that, but have never seen it. If I might ask do they use the Wiccan Rede as their Holy Scriptures? Does their faith cause much contention between them and those brothers more fundamental religious beliefs?


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## bullrack33 (Nov 6, 2011)

While the Rede is indeed a important part of Wicca, it is only a small part of their Book of Faith and there has been absolutely no contention caused by their faith.


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## BEDickey (Nov 6, 2011)

*good*

This is good to hear! And most encouraging I might add.


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## A7V (Nov 11, 2011)

I think you are walking a very thin line.   Not to speak ill of any Worshipful Brother but most of them are not going to be well read enough in this topic to give you a fair answer on being in their lodge. 

My issue is not with the Hermeticism but with the pantheism.   I have known many Christian Hermeticist but pure Hermeticism and the requirements of Freemasonry worry me on a personal level.

You identify as a pantheist   Pantheist, I would argue do not fit with the requirement of a monotheist God, because as a pantheist you can not say that you do not recognize one creator or GAOTU.   Pantheist recognize all gods, because they are part of The All, this is where it gets so sticky.

I wish you luck, but I have my doubts.


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## BEDickey (Nov 11, 2011)

*good!*

Happy to see you know a bit about Hermeticism. Thought I must correct myself, I typed Panetheistic rather then Panentheistic, thought they are similar, the later holds that a slightly different meaning.  Pantheistic beliefs hold that nature and god is one, and creation is a natural act, and generally has many different gods. Where as Panentheistic beliefs hold that there is one creator who grows with the universe, but recognizes other beliefs as being a part of itself. An easy way to think of it is this way. Think of a beautiful stained glass window, with all of its colors. As light that shines threw the window(religion) might be of a different color(denomination) but the light behind the window is all the same. Thus you can have people practicing Hermeticism as Christians or Muslims, but the pure Hermeticist worship the light behind the glass, the universal truth behind all religions.


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## A7V (Nov 11, 2011)

My eyes must be bad, could have sworn you put Pantheistic in your original not Panetheistic.   Panetheism is monotheistic whilst Pantheism is not.


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## BEDickey (Nov 11, 2011)

*that's ok*

That's no problem, I missed the n in Panentheistic anyway, so it came out Panetheistic. If your eyes are getting bad them my typing is too.


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## Dion (Jun 20, 2012)

BEDickey said:


> Hello, I'm Brandon and I'm a Hermeticist.
> 
> Also if anyone wishes I would gladly explain my reasoning as to how the Tarot is in fact Holy Scripture.


 
Hello again, Brother Brandon;

First, *I do wish to hear your reasoning* as to how the Tarot is in fact Holy Scripture (of Hermeticism, in particular), because I would certainly have asked you that question had you stated you wanted to be obligated on a deck of cards (there is a Masonic deck, btw).  This thread is coming dangerously close to violating a major prohibition pertaining to discussion topics - just a reminder.  If you are going to allow your faith to become a divisive element (I expect Hermeticists can proselytize, although I don't ever recall anyone knocking on my door wanting to talk about Hermes 3G), then I see it as a potential problem.  The first care of a WM is harmony within his Lodge.  Your intro is a case in point, and suggests to me you are wearing things on your sleeve.

Are there correspondences between the study of Freemasonry and the study of Hermeticism?  Of course there are (and I congratulate you on your stated reading of A.E. Waite (do look at the Rider-Waite deck, card #I and compare it to your pic - right hand, right path, etc.), because I find him to be a tough read.  But the same can be said for most schools of religion and philosophy and science . . . is that not the beauty of Freemasonry, and does it not speak to that universality we claim?  But at the end of the day Masonry is the primary topic for the study of Masonry.

One last thing, and I believe this is an important bit of advice if you don't mind.  In another post you made, you compared the Eucharist with cannibalism.  Given that you have joined an organization that is predominately Christian (its membership, at least in the USA), I suggest you come up with a different argument for justifying the Tarot as your VSL.  For more on that topic, if you haven't read it, I recommend Waite's _The Hidden Church of the Holy Graal_, specifically Book IX. Chapter III (_The Latin Literature of Alchemy and the Hermetic Secret in the Light of the Eucharistic Mystery_).  You can find it online for free (the copy I have was printed in 1909, but I believe 
it can still be purchased as a paperback).  Good luck


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