# Major victory for Army warrior questioning Obama's birthplace



## Blake Bowden

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=104009


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## Wingnut

this may be a dangerous precedent being set...


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## Leomarth

Isn't he actually taking orders from his unit commander?

And I wonder if this is some Klinger-esqe attempt at staying out of the fighting? Or does he actually believe this is a possibility?


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## Blake Bowden

From what I've read, Obama has refused to provide his Birth certificate.


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## Wingnut

Thats true, Obama has refused to release the long form birth certificate.  

However, a soldier questioning orders is a very bad precedent to set!  More especially by taking it to court!!! Imagine the outcome of an officer/NCO NOT following an order! ("attack the right flank now so the left flank can move up"!!!  Hummm Capt.  Im not sure thats a good order blah blah blah blah... Why thank you LT you just got the entire company on the left flank killed because you didnt do what you were told)

Military members are supposed to be neutral when it comes to politics.  It obviously isnt being enforced like it used to be judging by the number of military members I see at campaign rallies in uniform.  Giving the impression that the military backs one party or leader over another is a slippery slope and illegal under federal statue and The Uniform Code of Military Justice.


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## Leomarth

blake said:


> From what I've read, Obama has refused to provide his Birth certificate.



Well, the person in charge of the Department of Health in Hawaii verified it. By law, nobody is required to release it. And quite honestly, I'd be shocked if he did. There is too much that can be done with a birth certificate to make it safe.

Did Bush have to release such sensitive information? Clinton? Reagan? Carter? And that's not rhetorical. I'm in the dark about if they had to release it.

But if you really want to get technical, McCain would not have been eligible either. He was born on land in Panama that later became an American base, but it wasn't at the time. So he, technically, was born in Panama.


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## Bill Lins

Leomarth said:


> Did Bush have to release such sensitive information? Clinton? Reagan? Carter? And that's not rhetorical. I'm in the dark about if they had to release it.



There was never any question about Bush's or any of the others' citizenship status.



Leomarth said:


> But if you really want to get technical, McCain would not have been eligible either. He was born on land in Panama that later became an American base, but it wasn't at the time. So he, technically, was born in Panama.



Not so. Although he was not born on American soil, McCain's parents were both American citizens, plus his father was a naval officer. No question about his status, either.


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## Leomarth

Bill_Lins77488 said:


> There was never any question about Bush's or any of the others' citizenship status.



This may make me slightly unpopular, but in general the people who do question it seem to be sore losers, raging at their last hopes of keeping Obama out of office.

I don't like the man's policies. I think he's leading the country in the wrong direction, especially with the government taking stock in companies. But, when the director of DoH in Hawaii says his birth certificate is legit, I'm likely to believe him. Unless, for some reason, he's in on some huge worldwide conspiracy.


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## Blake Bowden

Leomarth said:


> Unless, for some reason, he's in on some huge worldwide conspiracy.



Blame the Freemasons! They're trying to take over the world!!!


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## js4253

Leomarth said:


> Did Bush have to release such sensitive information? Clinton? Reagan? Carter? And that's not rhetorical. I'm in the dark about if they had to release it.



I had to provide my birth certificate to play little league baseball.  Can you imagine?


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## Bill Lins

Leomarth said:


> when the director of DoH in Hawaii says his birth certificate is legit, I'm likely to believe him.



Why, when all they have to do is make a righteous document public? Why let things fester? Seems pretty stupid to me, unless they have no other option.
YMMV.


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## Leomarth

Bill_Lins77488 said:


> Why, when all they have to do is make a righteous document public? Why let things fester? Seems pretty stupid to me, unless they have no other option.
> YMMV.



After posting that yesterday, I read that Hawaii isn't legally allowed to make public long form birth certificates. So they'd have to change the state laws from what they are now.

Now, if that's totally accurate, I don't know. But still, even if I were Obama, I wouldn't release it for privacy reasons.


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## Blake Bowden

He shouldn't be forced to disclose, it should be voluntary. I had to provide a copy of my birth certificate just to petition my Lodge. My son had to for school, medical shots and little league. One would think the Pres should cough up his. I see both sides though.


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## Leomarth

blake said:


> He shouldn't be forced to disclose, it should be voluntary. I had to provide a copy of my birth certificate just to petition my Lodge. My son had to for school, medical shots and little league. One would think the Pres should cough up his. I see both sides though.



huh. I didn't have to provide anything to join my lodge. Just my petition. I didn't even have to show my drivers license. And since we homeschooled our kids, the others weren't relevant.

I wonder how common it is that you need your birth certificate to join a lodge? Or how common it is that you need nothing?


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## Blake Bowden

Under my Jurisdiction, The Grand Lodge of Texas, one MUST provide a certified copy of their birth certificate:

http://www.grandlodgeoftexas.org/26.pdf


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## Wingnut

Yep, cant accept a petition without one.


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## Bill Lins

Leomarth said:


> After posting that yesterday, I read that Hawaii isn't legally allowed to make public long form birth certificates. So they'd have to change the state laws from what they are now.
> 
> Now, if that's totally accurate, I don't know. But still, even if I were Obama, I wouldn't release it for privacy reasons.



I don't feel that it's up to the State of Hawaii to make the document public- I think Obama should do it just to put the matter to rest. 

I don't understand your concern with his privacy. Not only is he no longer (by choice) a private person, but is there anyone on the planet who doesn't already know that he's the President and what the names of his parents were?


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## Leomarth

Bill_Lins77488 said:


> I don't feel that it's up to the State of Hawaii to make the document public- I think Obama should do it just to put the matter to rest.



I don't think it's even up to Obama. If the law says the long form document can't be released, then he's also bound by law. He is the President, and while it may seem the President is above the law, or makes the law, that just isn't how it goes.

And I don't ever buy the line that he's no longer a private person. He has a job, yes. But he also still has a private life. And I don't know all the in's and out's of what can be done with a birth certificate, or the information on it. But I do know it's often abused by criminals, and it's never a good idea to release it. I know I wouldn't go about giving mine to anyone who wanted it.

I think the matter is honestly rested. Even if he were to somehow release it, it wouldn't satisfy the people who doubt it right now. I believe they'd then call it some conspiracy involving the state of Hawaii, or that it was a forged document. I don't think there is anything he can do to satisfy the doubters.


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## Wingnut

The law says the STATE cant release, not that the person its for cant.  Big difference.


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## Leomarth

Wingnut said:


> The law says the STATE cant release, not that the person its for cant.  Big difference.



Can you point to that? From what I have read, the state can't make it available. Which covers to the person, and from the state.


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## Wingnut

Yea, I was married in Hawaii and had 2 kids in Hawaii, (one in Denver) I have their long form birth certificates in my safe...


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## Leomarth

Wingnut said:


> Yea, I was married in Hawaii and had 2 kids in Hawaii, (one in Denver) I have their long form birth certificates in my safe...



I just read this morning the actual statement by the director of the department, and you're right. He said that they can release it only to interested parties.

What I read before was wrong.


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## js4253

Leomarth said:


> I just read this morning the actual statement by the director of the department, and you're right. He said that they can release it only to interested parties.
> 
> What I read before was wrong.



Here in Texas I can only get a birth certificate for myself or my children.


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## Blake Bowden

More happenings..

Retired general, lieutenant colonel join reservist&rsquo;s lawsuit over Obama's birth status - News - Ledger-Enquirer.com


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## Blake Bowden

[video=youtube;9V1nmn2zRMc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9V1nmn2zRMc[/video]


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## Wingnut

BTW, I dont disagree that Obama and all politicians should have to release certain information.  What I have the problem with is a military member refusing to deploy based on some political reason or political partisanship!!!


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## owls84

I just want to side step this one. I do love reading the information and a GREAT debate. The fact searching is great info and great work. Probably one of the best, as far as thoroughness, on the forum in my opinion.


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## owls84

Fox News Today


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## Sirius

These 'Birthers' are 'teabagers' gone wild. I'm not sure whats in that tea. But it must be delicious because they wont stop drinking it. 

Here is the Presidents birth certificate.


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## LRG

I'm a teabagger and love it.

 Sorry but i can't tell you the teabagger contents but its' good


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## LRG

Sirius said:


> These 'Birthers' are 'teabagers' gone wild. I'm not sure whats in that tea. But it must be delicious because they wont stop drinking it.
> 
> Here is the Presidents birth certificate.


 
Get out of town. I was born on Aug.4th .

We have something in common, maybe he grant me huge tax breaks


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## JTM

that looks legit.  i'm convinced.  :: cough ::


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## owls84

I mean the State has certified it. Then a newpaper in Hawaii got there hands on a copy, per FoxNews. What else do you need?? If the law states he don't have to then why would he? Don't you think if there was merit to the story then FoxNews would be all over it? You know Sean Hannity would.


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## Sirius

owls84 said:


> Don't you think if there was merit to the story then FoxNews would be all over it? You know Sean Hannity would.



Even more, Hillary Clinton would have used it if there was something to it.


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## drapetomaniac

This was from the article posted above.
"However, Obama's birth certificate along with birth notices from the two Honolulu newspapers were brought forward even before he took office."

Two different Hawaii newspapers have the original birth announcements that ran in their paper when Obama was born. The Republican governor of Hawaii has said he was born there. The head of vital records says he was.  

This is akin to asking the President to show his belly button to prove he's not a repitialian freemason overlord hatched in a Kenya bloodletting cult.

He could do it - but it won't fix the crazy. Paranoia doesn't run on logic or common sense.

I feel sorry for the soldier because he's been encouraged in this by all kinds of angles and the consequences should be severe.  And it's basically on the premise that if an American marries a foreigner and that child is born on foreign land - they are no longer America.  Or at least not as American as someone born in the Panama Canal Zone.

For a moment of flashback, I'm sure y'all remember the outrage about McCain's citizenship question and how that was answered.  There was no outrage even though there were serious legal questions which most scholars and lawyers took seriously.

Because there were serious questions and nobody thought there should be, there was a unanimous bill passed to support McCain as a natural born citizen - during the election.  It was introduced by Democrats and cosponsored by several including Obama and Clinton - while they were running against McCain..  

However, in the case of Obama, we have people introducing and supporting bills basically endorsing birther paranoia. 

If someone sees me coming out of lodge, I'm not going to show them my bellybutton to prove I'm not a reptilian over lord. 

Here is the text of the McCain bill which passed unanimously



> SRES 511 RS
> 
> Calendar No. 715
> 
> 110th CONGRESS
> 
> 2d Session
> 
> S. RES. 511
> 
> Recognizing that John Sidney McCain, III, is a natural born citizen.
> 
> IN THE SENATE OF THE UNITED STATES
> 
> April 10, 2008
> 
> Mrs. MCCASKILL (for herself, Mr. LEAHY, Mr. OBAMA, Mr. COBURN, Mrs. CLINTON, and Mr. WEBB) submitted the following resolution; which was referred to the Committee on the Judiciary
> 
> April 24, 2008
> 
> Reported by Mr. LEAHY, without amendment
> 
> RESOLUTION
> 
> Recognizing that John Sidney McCain, III, is a natural born citizen.
> 
> Whereas the Constitution of the United States requires that, to be eligible for the Office of the President, a person must be a `natural born Citizen' of the United States;
> 
> Whereas the term `natural born Citizen', as that term appears in Article II, Section 1, is not defined in the Constitution of the United States;
> 
> Whereas there is no evidence of the intention of the Framers or any Congress to limit the constitutional rights of children born to Americans serving in the military nor to prevent those children from serving as their country's President;
> 
> Whereas such limitations would be inconsistent with the purpose and intent of the `natural born Citizen' clause of the Constitution of the United States, as evidenced by the First Congress's own statute defining the term `natural born Citizen';
> 
> Whereas the well-being of all citizens of the United States is preserved and enhanced by the men and women who are assigned to serve our country outside of our national borders;
> 
> Whereas previous presidential candidates were born outside of the United States of America and were understood to be eligible to be President; and
> 
> Whereas John Sidney McCain, III, was born to American citizens on an American military base in the Panama Canal Zone in 1936: Now, therefore, be it
> 
> Resolved, That John Sidney McCain, III, is a `natural born Citizen' under Article II, Section 1, of the Constitution of the United States.
> 
> Calendar No. 715
> 
> 110th CONGRESS
> 
> 2d Session
> 
> S. RES. 511
> 
> RESOLUTION
> 
> Recognizing that John Sidney McCain, III, is a natural born citizen.


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## Sirius

drapetomaniac said:


> This is akin to asking the President to show his belly button to prove he's not a repitialian freemason overlord hatched in a Kenya bloodletting cult.
> 
> If someone sees me coming out of lodge, I'm not going to show them my bellybutton to prove I'm not a reptilian over lord.



Great Post and great points. The President will never be able to convince these people because they are the same folks who believe the Masons are part of a conspiracy involving the trilateral commission done according to the "protocols of the Elders of Zion' and with the help of Barney Fife.  These folks have been suckling the loony tit for far to long and need medication. Medication they would be able to afford if health care reform passes.


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## Wingnut

Or not be able to get because its rationed, they are too old or dont have any money left because they are paying for all the handouts being given out on the backs of our grandchildren.


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## Sirius

Wingnut said:


> Or not be able to get because its rationed, they are too old or dont have any money left because they are paying for all the handouts being given out on the backs of our grandchildren.



You get a point for sticking to the talking points.


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## Wingnut

deleted....


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## Sirius

Wingnut said:


> deleted....


I liked your response , you shouldn't have deleted it.


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## Luke

Hmm. *scratches head* That's all I have.


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## Wingnut

Sirius said:


> I liked your response , you shouldn't have deleted it.



Passion, Due Bounds, not the place


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## Bill Lins

Sirius said:


> The President will never be able to convince these people because they are the same folks who believe the Masons are part of a conspiracy involving the trilateral commission done according to the "protocols of the Elders of Zion' and with the help of Barney Fife.



You mean we're NOT??????????


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