# Demits



## Ripcord22A (May 17, 2016)

I know that this is gonna very jurisdiction by jurisdiction, maybe even lodge to lodge but my question is...If a member demits due to a move, joins another lodge then moves back to the area he demitted from does he have to petition the lodge all over again or is there like a reinstatement type deal?


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## dfreybur (May 17, 2016)

If a Brother demits he's no longer a member.  If a Brother demits he's still a Brother.  Both apply whether he demits to another lodge or if he just goes to open status.

Whatever the process is for affiliation, that's the process he would need to go through.  Having previously been a member of that lodge the steps are likely to happen faster and more smoothly but all the steps will need to be done.

As you suggest what those steps are vary jurisdiction to jurisdiction.


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## Ripcord22A (May 17, 2016)

dfreybur said:


> If a Brother demits he's no longer a member.  If a Brother demits he's still a Brother.  Both apply whether he demits to another lodge or if he just goes to open status.
> 
> Whatever the process is for affiliation, that's the process he would need to go through.  Having previously been a member of that lodge the steps are likely to happen faster and more smoothly but all the steps will need to be done.
> 
> As you suggest what those steps are vary jurisdiction to jurisdiction.


Thanks! That's what I assumed.  It was just the wonderings of a Bored Freemason at work!..lol....maybe I could turn that in to a blog....


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## Christopher Quinten (May 17, 2016)

I would def read that blog...


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## Bloke (May 19, 2016)

jdmadsenCraterlake211 said:


> I know that this is gonna very jurisdiction by jurisdiction, maybe even lodge to lodge but my question is...If a member demits due to a move, joins another lodge then moves back to the area he demitted from does he have to petition the lodge all over again or is there like a reinstatement type deal?



Here, as above, he needs to submit a "joining member" application and prove he is (or was when he left the Craft) in good standing (his dues were paid). Vote here is by show of hands for a joining member. (Candidates for Freemasonry done by secret ballot, elections for officers done via ballot paper if more than one candidate for an office or else they are simply declared )


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## Companion Joe (May 20, 2016)

The real key to that whole scenario is don't demit from one lodge before becoming a member in another. You demit AFTER you have joined the other lodge. It makes the process a whole lot smoother.


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## Glen Cook (May 20, 2016)

Companion Joe said:


> The real key to that whole scenario is don't demit from one lodge before becoming a member in another. You demit AFTER you have joined the other lodge. It makes the process a whole lot smoother.


Indeed, I've seen a Demitted member fail the ballot in another lodge.


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## Brother JC (May 21, 2016)

Except some GLs require a letter of demit when applying for affiliation.


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## Warrior1256 (May 21, 2016)

Something that had never crossed my mind, thanks for the info.


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## The Traveling Man (May 22, 2016)

If you demit, but never join another Lodge, are you still considered a Mason? Is there an expiration to the demit?


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## dfreybur (May 22, 2016)

The Traveling Man said:


> If you demit, but never join another Lodge, are you still considered a Mason? Is there an expiration to the demit?



In most jurisdictions you end up on "open demit".  No accrual towards a 50 year pin.  Limited number of visits with the purpose of deciding if you will affiliate.  Exact details vary but that's the pattern.

No idea if you die in that state if you get a masonic funeral.  One of my jurisdictions suggests that we conduct the ceremony first and look up standing second just in case.  I don't think that's a standard policy.


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## The Traveling Man (May 22, 2016)

After checking my book I see that once you demit, you become Unaffiliated. Regardless of his present residence, a Brother holding a Demit may, within 12 months from the date on which the Demit was issued, petition for re-affiliation in the issuing lodge. The Demit, together with current dues, must accompany the Petition for Affiliation. The petition must take the same course as any other Petition for Affiliation.

If an Unaffiliated Brother petitions a Lodge and is rejected, his demit is returned to him and he remains an Unaffiliated Mason (with no expiration), as long as he continues to petition a Lodge at least once a year.

If an Unaffiliated Brother doesn't petition any Lodge within 12 months, he is afforded all of the disabilities of a suspended Mason.

In addition, no Unaffiliated Mason, residing within the Jurisdiction of a Lodge, shall have the privilege of visiting the same Lodge more than three times, and can't visit a Lodge more than once if it is beyond the Jurisdiction of which he may be a resident.

While there is no mention of Masonic funerals for a demitted Brother, if a valid demit constitutes good standing then it would make sense that he would be entitled to a funeral.


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## Warrior1256 (May 22, 2016)

The Traveling Man said:


> After checking my book I see that once you demit, you become Unaffiliated. Regardless of his present residence, a Brother holding a Demit may, within 12 months from the date on which the Demit was issued, petition for re-affiliation in the issuing lodge. The Demit, together with current dues, must accompany the Petition for Affiliation. The petition must take the same course as any other Petition for Affiliation.
> 
> If an Unaffiliated Brother petitions a Lodge and is rejected, his demit is returned to him and he remains an Unaffiliated Mason (with no expiration), as long as he continues to petition a Lodge at least once a year.
> 
> ...


Excellent info! Thanks Brother. I'm going to check up on this with the Kentucky Grand Lodge.


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## Bloke (May 22, 2016)

The Traveling Man said:


> If you demit, but never join another Lodge, are you still considered a Mason? Is there an expiration to the demit?



My view is once you have taken the obligation, you can never "untake it" but I see your other post - yes you become an unaffiliated brother, but still a brother..


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## The Traveling Man (May 22, 2016)

Bloke said:


> My view is once you have taken the obligation, you can never "untake it" but I see your other post - yes you become an unaffiliated brother, but still a brother..



In America it could be problematic trying to prove someone's good standing in that situation. We have dues cards here and it isn't out of the ordinary, when meeting Brothers, to show a current dues card if requested. Obviously a demitted Brother would not have one. Neither would a suspended or expelled one. So I'm not sure, in that case, how you would prove a Brothers good standing, unless he carries his demit around with him. But I guess that's an entiterely different matter.

With regards to the funeral, it doesn't seem that there would be a way to check to see if a deceased Brother has met the requirements of his demit (petitioning a Lodge at least once per year)? So, like you said, it'd be a situation where you can't untake an Obligation. Once a Brother, always.

Now what about a Brother who didn't demit, but instead resigned from Masonry altogether. Is that even possible, or would one just demit and then never petition another Lodge? How is that Brother viewed, as a Brother, or as no longer a Mason?


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## Bloke (May 22, 2016)

The Traveling Man said:


> In America it could be problematic trying to prove someone's good standing in that situation. We have dues cards here and it isn't out of the ordinary, when meeting Brothers, to show a current dues card if requested. Obviously a demitted Brother would not have one. Neither would a suspended or expelled one. So I'm not sure, in that case, how you would prove a Brothers good standing, unless he carries his demit around with him. But I guess that's an entiterely different matter.
> 
> With regards to the funeral, it doesn't seem that there would be a way to check to see if a deceased Brother has met the requirements of his demit (petitioning a Lodge at least once per year)? So, like you said, it'd be a situation where you can't untake an Obligation. Once a Brother, always.
> 
> Now what about a Brother who didn't demit, but instead resigned from Masonry altogether. Is that even possible, or would one just demit and then never petition another Lodge? How is that Brother viewed, as a Brother, or as no longer a Mason?



We do not have dues cards.

Funeral - if requested we will do it and dont ask questions. I know we've done them for brothers who left the Craft yet requested it.

If you resign and owe dues, it would be "that _brother _was not in good standing.." but dont really know. To rejoin, you need to settle the dues at your old lodge, obtain a clearance certificate before rejoining. Without a clearance cert or confirmation from a sec he is in good standing, we will not ballot for a joining member


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## Bill Lins (May 22, 2016)

The Traveling Man said:


> Now what about a Brother who didn't demit, but instead resigned from Masonry altogether. Is that even possible? How is that Brother viewed, as a Brother, or as no longer a Mason?


Yes, it is possible, and one who has done so would be viewed as no longer being a Mason.


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## The Traveling Man (May 22, 2016)

Bill_Lins77488 said:


> Yes, it is possible, and one who has done so would be viewed as no longer being a Mason.



And that would make sense. But so would what Bro. @Bloke said, you can't untake an Ob., you can't unlearn the Secrets, etc. Would you converse, Masonically, with a Brother who resigned in good standing? I was at a cousin's house before and her boyfriend approached me, let me know he used to be a Mason when he was in college (I believe their used to be a college Lodge). I didn't speak Masonically with him, and was young in Masonry. But I thought, after the fact, could I have. Then I also worked with a Brother who was a member of the Grand Lodge of Cuba 30 years ago. He left when he moved to America. We're close but we've never talked Masonically (although we do talk about Masonry, in a general sense). He's still close with his old Lodge Brothers and his mentor, who he still speaks to regularly, is the former Grand Master (current SGC of the AASR there). He's never attempted to speak Masonically with me in the 10 years that we've been close. But again, that question comes to mind, what would I do if he did try to?


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## Bill Lins (May 22, 2016)

The Traveling Man said:


> And that would make sense. But so would what Bro. @Bloke said, you can't untake an Ob., you can't unlearn the Secrets, etc. Would you converse, Masonically, with a Brother who resigned in good standing?


No, I would not. As I stated before, any Brother who voluntarily resigns from Masonry of his own free will is no longer a Mason. A Brother who demits from his Lodge IS still a Mason. A very important distinction, as you can see.


The Traveling Man said:


> I was at a cousin's house before and her boyfriend approached me, let me know he used to be a Mason when he was in college (I believe their used to be a college Lodge). I didn't speak Masonically with him, and was young in Masonry. But I thought, after the fact, could I have. Then I also worked with a Brother who was a member of the Grand Lodge of Cuba 30 years ago. He left when he moved to America. We're close but we've never talked Masonically (although we do talk about Masonry, in a general sense). He's never attempted to speak Masonically with me in the 10 years that we've been close. But again, that question comes to mind, what would I do if he did try to.


In both cases, it depends. If the Brother demitted, one would still treat him as a Mason. If he resigned or was suspended, then one would NOT treat him as a Brother.


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## Glen Cook (May 22, 2016)

Bloke said:


> ....
> 
> If you resign and owe dues, it would be "that _brother _was not in good standing.." but dont really know...



Difference in terms: In US Masonry, "resign" is usually taken to mean renouncing membership in the fraternity. 

We take our lore from a craft. There are other professions for which one may retain the knowledge, but no longer entitled to use the professional designation, such as attorney and solicitor. One may be disbarred or stricken from the Roll. The knowledge is retained, but one is no longer a solicitor.


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## The Traveling Man (May 22, 2016)

Glen Cook said:


> Difference in terms: In US Masonry, "resign" is usually taken to mean renouncing membership in the fraternity.
> 
> We take our lore from a craft. There are other professions for which one may retain the knowledge, but no longer entitled to use the professional designation, such as attorney and solicitor. One may be disbarred or stricken from the Roll. The knowledge is retained, but one is no longer a solicitor.



Definitely makes sense. Such as Doctor no longer able to practice medicine. But would still speak, medically, with a someone who no longer practices medicine? Would you allow him to treat you. I must say that I probably would. But I understand what you are saying and it makes sense.


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## Glen Cook (May 22, 2016)

The Traveling Man said:


> Definitely makes sense. Such as Doctor no longer able to practice medicine. But would still speak, medically, with a someone who no longer practices medicine? Would you allow him to treat you. I must say that I probably would. But I understand what you are saying and it makes sense.


Umm, no, I would not assist him in committing a crime.


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## The Traveling Man (May 22, 2016)

Glen Cook said:


> Umm, no, I would not assist him in committing a crime.



You may have taken that the wrong way or read too far into what I was saying. I wasn't talking about an operation or anything major. More like "With Aleve, is it best to take 1 or 2. What are the side effects if I mix this medicine with that medicine?"


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## Glen Cook (May 22, 2016)

The Traveling Man said:


> You may have taken that the wrong way or read too far into what I was saying. I wasn't talking about an operation or anything major. More like "With Aleve, is it best to take 1 or 2. What are the side effects if I mix this medicine with that medicine?"


I've handled criminal allegations for practicing outside of the scope of one's licensure (apparently dentists are not allowed to remove moles, stitch up arms and prescribe amphetamines. Who knew?). Giving medical advice is giving medical advice. 

To your more narrow point, there is a reason people lose their licenses.  Often it is for dishonesty, drugs or sex.  They are not reliable people.


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## Bloke (May 22, 2016)

Glen Cook said:


> Difference in terms: In US Masonry, "resign" is usually taken to mean renouncing membership in the fraternity.



An interesting point. Folk resign here all the time from lodges... that only puts you outside Freemasonry if it is your last Craft Lodge.... we do not use the term in the same way and  "demit" is neither in our vocabulary nor mentioned in our constitution. We have two terms "resign" and "excluded", they're the two ways you leave lodge... or I guess you die.. Within "resigned" you have in "good standing" or "not in good standing" which refers to if you've paid your dues. If you have paid your dues, then you can get a "Clearance Certificate".

In terms of renouncing membership, I guess that's still a resignation here, but the content would be different, but I'm note sure the affect is.


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## dfreybur (May 23, 2016)

Bill_Lins77488 said:


> If the Brother demitted, one would still treat him as a Mason. If he resigned or was suspended, then one would NOT treat him as a Brother.



This can depend on the generosity of the lodge - Who considers who a Brother does not have to be mutual.

I recall a Stated meeting where a communication was read that a Brother resigned.  He was in good standing at the time.  He was sent a demit form in case he ever wanted to change his mind.

I recall meetings where a Brother listed as NPD was contacted by the committee and said he was not interested and that he had no intention of paying his dues.  He was sent an NPD form that explained how to come current again.


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## Brother_Steve (May 23, 2016)

jdmadsenCraterlake211 said:


> Thanks! That's what I assumed.  It was just the wonderings of a Bored Freemason at work!..lol....maybe I could turn that in to a blog....


Again, by jurisdiction, but if I recall correctly, it is a two year gap in NJ that would require a secret ballot to get back in. If you come back within two years, I *think* the process is a bit more simplistic.

Also, I think you can be *at large* for a year before you have to either join another lodge or fall off the ranks as far as Grand Lodge is concerned.


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## Bill Lins (May 23, 2016)

Bloke said:


> If you have paid your dues, then you can get a "Clearance Certificate".


That sounds exactly our "demit"- one must be in good standing to receive it. And, as Bro. Glen put it, one "demits" from one's Lodge but "resigns" (or is suspended or expelled) from the Fraternity.


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## Bloke (May 23, 2016)

Brother_Steve said:


> Also, I think you can be *at large* for a year before you have to either join another lodge or fall off the ranks as far as Grand Lodge is concerned.



"At large" LOL... the only similar thing we have is when a warrant gets returned, then the members are put into Lodge of Transition # 0 for 1 year, but 1 year only. We also have a stupid rule here (which EVERYONE ignores) that if unaffiliated, you can only visit a lodge once, then you have to join it...


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## Warrior1256 (May 24, 2016)

Bill_Lins77488 said:


> That sounds exactly our "demit"- one must be in good standing to receive it. And, as Bro. Glen put it, one "demits" from one's Lodge but "resigns" (or is suspended or expelled) from the Fraternity.


Same here.


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## king82 (May 28, 2016)

The Traveling Man said:


> If you demit, but never join another Lodge, are you still considered a Mason? Is there an expiration to the demit?


Ur always a mason. As far as demit in my u have to repetition like a new member


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## Warrior1256 (May 28, 2016)

king82 said:


> As far as demit in my u have to repetition like a new member


I believe that it is the same here in Kentucky.


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## acjohnson53 (May 29, 2016)

Oklahoma, you have 90 days...


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## Ripcord22A (May 29, 2016)

What happens after 90 days?

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