# Masonry For Women--HOT TOPIC!



## CLewey44 (Jul 15, 2017)

With the long conversations on women and Masonry, would you suggest to a woman interested in joining to join a group considered irregular or clandestine, hence possibly revealing the secrets of Masons to those not 'qualified'?


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## cemab4y (Jul 15, 2017)

not sure how to answer. I know a female freemason here in suburban WashDC. She is a fine person. Her lodge is not recognized.


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## CLewey44 (Jul 15, 2017)

I know, it's such a difficult scenario. I've heard people say that women would be a distraction in lodge. If that is the only reason we don't allow them to join our lodges, then female Masonry could and should maybe be recognized. Have all female lodges.  That way you take out the 'sexual' element.


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## coachn (Jul 15, 2017)

What's a continental lodge?


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## Ripcord22A (Jul 15, 2017)

CLewey44 said:


> With the long conversations on women and Masonry, would you suggest to a woman interested in joining to join a group considered irregular or clandestine, hence possibly revealing the secrets of Masons to those not 'qualified'?


Your not revealing anything.  No different in my opinion then a Bro in 1 of the 9 jurisdictions that doesnt recognize PHA recommending a PHA lodge to someone.

Sent from my LG-H918 using My Freemasonry mobile app


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## CLewey44 (Jul 15, 2017)

coachn said:


> What's a continental lodge?



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continental_Freemasonry

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Orient_de_France

I'm sure there are others as well.


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## CLewey44 (Jul 15, 2017)

Ripcord22A said:


> Your not revealing anything.  No different in my opinion then a Bro in 1 of the 9 jurisdictions that doesnt recognize PHA recommending a PHA lodge to someone.
> 
> Sent from my LG-H918 using My Freemasonry mobile app



That's true. Not directly.


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## Elexir (Jul 15, 2017)

In Sweden I would recomend LDH for anyone who is truly intressted in freemasonry (if intressted in orders in general I have a few other options).
My main reason is that they are a stable order and pretty serious in their work.
Fun fact is that the Scandinavian federation has the requirment of a supreme deity.

The reason for not including OES is that they dont exist here and most likley never will. Most masons wifes that are intressted in sororital(?) orders go to other orders.


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## MasterBulldawg (Jul 15, 2017)

I think I am going to pass on this one.

Sent from my SM-G930P using My Freemasonry mobile app


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## CLewey44 (Jul 15, 2017)

MasterBulldawg said:


> I think I am going to pass on this one.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930P using My Freemasonry mobile app


Lolololololol...I feel you.


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## Glen Cook (Jul 15, 2017)

Why didn't you include feminine freemasonry in the poll?


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## Bloke (Jul 16, 2017)

Glen Cook said:


> Why didn't you include feminine freemasonry in the poll?


Probably was not in his mind Glen. We don't have it here.... and while I know its a thing in England and in the USA, it's very low profile to most of us.

Generally, I answered yes, I would recommend a woman to join a Female or Co-Masonic order, and have often done so. I also mention Eastern Star and Amaranth....  but that's not helpful to strangers. Their only option "irregular" group here ("irregular" being a subjective, not universal but widely and frequently consistently defined word)  is Le Droit humain (LDH) , and we only have two lodges working in a city of 4.6 million people.. I'd actually be very sad to hear of LDH demise here; it is quite weak and could use the members ! HOWEVER, I would not recommend a male to them, unless he, after explanation, objected to "us" being a male only fraternity, then I would send him to LDH.

If my partner wanted to join, I'd ask her to try OES first.. but if she wanted to join LDH, there is no way I would object... to do so opens me to double standards, I want to be a member of Ancient Free and Accepted Masons (or what ever your local regular GL is called) and I cannot see how I would have any right to object to her joining any lawful group which she wanted to join... oh, unless it is the local swingers group...


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## CLewey44 (Jul 16, 2017)

@Glen Cook The question line wouldn't hold anymore words lol.


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## acjohnson53 (Jul 16, 2017)

they have their Charters and Aux. Why they trying invade my privacy, like golf...but they took gook golf from us. curious to see what's really going on


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## acjohnson53 (Jul 16, 2017)




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## Ripcord22A (Jul 16, 2017)

acjohnson53 said:


> they have their Charters and Aux. Why they trying invade my privacy, like golf...but they took gook golf from us. curious to see what's really going on


I have no idea what ur talking about.  What is gook golf?

Sent from my LG-H918 using My Freemasonry mobile app


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## CLewey44 (Jul 16, 2017)

I thought the word 'gook' was sort of off the table these days....


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## coachn (Jul 16, 2017)

CLewey44 said:


> I thought the word 'gook' was sort of off the table these days....


Gook?  Isn't that a Klingon delicacy?


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## Elexir (Jul 16, 2017)

coachn said:


> Gook?  Isn't that a Klingon delicacy?



Gagh


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## coachn (Jul 16, 2017)

Elexir said:


> Gagh


Qapla'


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## CLewey44 (Jul 16, 2017)

Martianic Lodge #1


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## Brother JC (Jul 16, 2017)

I think my opinion on this is fairly well known but I'll bite...
If a woman I know sincerely wanted to pursue a Masonic education I would send her here  http://www.co-masonry.org  and gladly answer basic questions and help guide her. I would do the same if it were a woman I was intimate with. It could only add a new level of possible conversation and study to our lives.


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## goomba (Jul 17, 2017)

Yes to the basic question.

I would argue that our secrets are revealed to most brothers in our (all male) lodges.  Of course that depends on what you consider a secret.


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## chrmc (Jul 17, 2017)

CLewey44 said:


> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continental_Freemasonry
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Orient_de_France
> 
> I'm sure there are others as well.



I feel that mixing this up with Co-Masonry is two very different points though. One is a debate about whether the gender of a person should disqualify them from Freemasonry, or how we should possibly make allowances for that. 

The issue with GODF is mainly that they have removed the requirement for a belief in Deity from their rituals and requirements. To me that is something much different than a gender debate that is largely based on historical traditions.


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## CLewey44 (Jul 17, 2017)

*Female membership[edit]*
When the Grand Orient took shape in 1773, it inherited several _Lodges of Adoption_ attached to its own lodges. These were open to masons and admitted their female relatives in their own set of rituals. They received an implied seal of approval when the Duc de Chartres, then Grand Master of France, became "Grand Master" of a new lodge of adoption in Paris, with the Duchess of Bourbon as "Grand Mistress". Briefly eclipsed by the revolution, they again became fashionable under Napoleon, before being declared unconstitutional in 1808.[42] They were revived in 1901 as a women's society, before a final separation in 1935. The resulting organisation is now the Grande Loge féminine de France.[43]

For many years, the Grand Orient would not allow its lodges to initiate women, but did recognize and receive women who were made Freemasons in other jurisdictions. This changed in 2010, and after some setbacks, the Grand Orient currently allows the initiation of women.[44]

Not an expert on this, but they do allow women so it's very much like co-masonry. Whether they require a belief in a deity or not is beside the point of this particular forum.


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## Elexir (Jul 17, 2017)

http://freemasonsfordummies.blogspot.se/2010/09/grand-orient-de-france-officially-co.html?m=1


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## chrmc (Jul 17, 2017)

CLewey44 said:


> *Female membership[edit]*
> Not an expert on this, but they do allow women so it's very much like co-masonry. Whether they require a belief in a deity or not is beside the point of this particular forum.



Thanks to both the posters above. Must admit that I was not aware of that.


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## Brother_Steve (Jul 18, 2017)

I've read several posts where mainstream masons in Georgia would love to go their PHA counterpart 's fundraising events, but feel they would be cast aside for fraternizing with PHA Masons even though it is not a "masonic" setting.


I kind of have that sentiment here...I'd support a woman's-only lodge, but I don't know if I would be able to take that step publicly...yet.

Their Lodge would have zero effect on my life and masonic career. Regardless of their existence, I still wake up every morning, commute back and forth to work (shouldn't it be forth and back? Oh well) and look forward to meetings, degrees and rehearsals.

I am all over the place with my reply because I can't convey my exact feelings.


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## Brother_Steve (Jul 18, 2017)

Ripcord22A said:


> I have no idea what ur talking about.  What is gook golf?
> 
> Sent from my LG-H918 using My Freemasonry mobile app





CLewey44 said:


> I thought the word 'gook' was sort of off the table these days....



I have a feeling, given the proximity of G to T on the keyboard, that the Brother typed out "took" twice on accident, and fatfingered the T on the second attempt.


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## Roy_ (Jul 20, 2017)

About the Grand Orient de France. In short (and on top off my head). In the early days of FM when lodges of adoption, the GODF recognised them. This became a problem later on and the lodges of adoption were taken out of the organisation and the Grand Lodge Feminine de France was formed so that the GODF would not loose regularity.

This happened later on of course when they dropped the requirement to belief in 'something higher'. 

Last, but finally within the scope of this thread, the GODF allowed their lodges to initiate women in 2010, but each lodge decides for itself if they do. In their own communication about 2013/4 the GODF writes (Google translation):
1,319 women distributed
In 350 lodges. 757 were initiated at the GODF
And 562 joined him, from another Obedience.​
As for other points mentioned in this thread. In the Netherlands there is usually an independent organisation taking care of the building which can be rented by both "regular" and other lodges. The management of that organisation may well contain both men and women. Also on open door days, both lodges may together receive guests (there is one building that houses the whole spectrum, "regular", mixed gender of two organisation, a women's lodge and a weavers lodge and their open door day they do together). 
In the early days, "regular" Masons often helped out founding mixed gender lodges and they were member of both. This is no longer allowed, so when they help, it's usually on the background.


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## Warrior1256 (Jul 20, 2017)

Have done a lot of soul searching and thinking and, at this point at least, I would have to answer "no".


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## CLewey44 (Jul 20, 2017)

Warrior1256 said:


> Have done a lot of soul searching and thinking and, at this point at least, I would have to answer "no".



I can buy that for sure, brother. As it stands, it is in a way 'passively' revealing what we aren't supposed to reveal to people 'not worthy' of such knowledge. Would I be open down the road to allowing female only lodges, probably so, but for now it's against our obligations *in a way.*


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## Warrior1256 (Jul 20, 2017)

CLewey44 said:


> As it stands, it is in a way 'passively' revealing what we aren't supposed to reveal to people 'not worthy' of such knowledge.


Exactly!


CLewey44 said:


> Would I be open down the road to allowing female only lodges, probably so, but for now it's against our obligations *in a way.*


I certainly try to keep an open mind.


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## CLewey44 (Jul 20, 2017)

I say it is similar to this scenario, although clearly not as vital. If I have the nuclear passwords and instructions and someone asks me "Hey, give me those nuclear passwords and instructions." If I'm sworn not to give them away and I say "I can't give them to you, but I know where you can get them", that could be a problem.


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## Warrior1256 (Jul 20, 2017)

CLewey44 said:


> I say it is similar to this scenario, although clearly not as vital. If I have the nuclear passwords and instructions and someone asks me "Hey, give me those nuclear passwords and instructions." If I'm sworn not to give them away and I say "I can't give them to you, but I know where you can get them", that could be a problem.


Agreed!!!


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## rpbrown (Jul 20, 2017)

Just think of them going through the degrees. Some may be okay but some I wouldn't want to see.


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## coachn (Jul 20, 2017)

rpbrown said:


> Just think of them going through the degrees. Some may be okay but some I wouldn't want to see.


Makes me wonder how many of "them" would have the same sentiments about seeing you.


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## rpbrown (Jul 20, 2017)

↑
Just think of them going through the degrees. Some may be okay but some I wouldn't want to see. 
Makes me wonder how many of "them" would have the same sentiments about seeing you. 

You have a point


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