# How much are you willing to teach?



## hanzosbm (Apr 1, 2016)

We've seen a growing trend (which I like very much) of more and more discussion within our lodges.  For those brethren who either offer papers/discussion within their lodge or simply those that help other brethren on their journey, how much are you willing to give freely versus having them connect the dots themselves?  I think this particularly pertains to more esoteric topics and deeper symbolism.  Are you willing to dive right in and lay out your thoughts openly?  Do you prefer to give some hints and points in the right direction and have them search it out?  Or do you feel that they should be on their own to find these things as a kind of rite of passage or as a way to guard it against those who see no value in it?


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## Ripcord22A (Apr 1, 2016)

Brother seeing as how the working tools are explained to us as well as what the other symbols represent I have no problem what so ever in giving my take and what they mean to me.  Ive always dispised people who tell you to "GO look it up" when you ask them a question.  Being in the Army im pretty good and memorization.  I amy not know all the answers but I probably know where to ffind it at.  If I am asked a question depending on the situation I will either A. give them the answer, b. tell them where they can find it or c. if time allows pull up the reference and show them.  In all three instances we will have a discussion about the q&a and make sure that myself and the one/s asking are on the same page.

Alway lead, coach and mentor!


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## Ripcord22A (Apr 1, 2016)

JamestheJust said:


> If Masonic Science exists then it must be subject to experiment but I have hardly ever found a brother interested in going past speculation.
> 
> And having speculated a few hundred times, most brethren fall silent.


 and what type of experiments are you talking about?


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## Ripcord22A (Apr 1, 2016)

JamestheJust said:


> But the "working tools" can be unveiled and used in a "moral sense" to test the trueness of propositions.


 That is exactly what we are taught to do with them.


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## coachn (Apr 1, 2016)

hanzosbm said:


> We've seen a growing trend (which I like very much) of more and more discussion within our lodges.  For those brethren who either offer papers/discussion within their lodge or simply those that help other brethren on their journey, *how much are you willing to give freely versus having them connect the dots themselves?*



I give freely far too much and it is always with the strict understanding that I am not spoon-feeding anyone.



hanzosbm said:


> I think this particularly pertains to more esoteric topics and deeper symbolism.  *Are you willing to dive right in and lay out your thoughts openly?*



Yup.  Put only to those who have shown that they are at a place to invest in it as well.



hanzosbm said:


> Do you prefer to give some hints and points in the right direction and have them search it out?



Always!



hanzosbm said:


> Or do you feel that they should be on their own to find these things as a kind of rite of passage or as a way to guard it against those who see no value in it?



Non-sense.  The right person seeking for the right reasons will not want to spin their wheels AND does not want to get on the bus.  They want direction and their own vehicle.


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## hanzosbm (Apr 1, 2016)

coachn said:


> I give freely far too much and it is always with the strict understanding that I am not spoon-feeding anyone.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Brother Coach, I think you're getting what I'm saying.  So, let me reword this a bit to get your thoughts a bit further; how much would you be willing to teach to the entire lodge?  In other words, would you be willing to write a paper on it and share it openly with the entire lodge?


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## coachn (Apr 1, 2016)

hanzosbm said:


> Brother Coach, I think you're getting what I'm saying.  So, let me reword this a bit to get your thoughts a bit further; how much would you be willing to teach to the entire lodge?  In other words, would you be willing to write a paper on it and share it openly with the entire lodge?


Do you have any idea the number of papers, articles, books, videos, memes and "daily points to perpend" that I have produced and shared in open lodges and with Brothers daily around the world?


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## hanzosbm (Apr 1, 2016)

coachn said:


> Do you have any idea the number of papers, articles, books, videos, memes and "daily points to perpend" that I have produced and shared in open lodges and with Brothers daily around the world?


No, I don't.  But do you hold back things in those that you might otherwise share one on one?


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## coachn (Apr 1, 2016)

hanzosbm said:


> No, I don't.  But do you hold back things in those that you might otherwise share one on one?


The only time that I hold back is when the person obviously won't value or get what I share. 

Well, that and when they don't want to do the work or make the investment to get what I got already.


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## Bloke (Apr 1, 2016)

I would certainly hold back. When we have EA's around, we dont discuss the meaning of the third degree in depth... I think you need to address the student according to the class he is in, it is no good talking the specifics of calculus with a kid in the third grade, but there is nothing wrong with a third grader knowing calculus is something which exists and they can aspire to... Likewise, I've got a few friends deeply into the esoteric, and sometimes when they talk, my eyes glaze over.... and not only because sometimes I'm note sure where they are at, but sometime I know exactly and they are drawing very long bows...

What annoys me is when men say "you're not ready" or "you need to work harder" to an intelligent question where the respondent is ignorant but using this as a cover for it. Nothing wrong with saying "I don't know"

Part of being a speculative Freemason is to speculate... but one of the best pieces of advice I got was on my initiation - never stop asking questions..


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## Classical (Apr 1, 2016)

I'm reading what the great ones on this board are writing.


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## Warrior1256 (Apr 2, 2016)

Very good topic! I would be willing to help any way that I could although I still have a lot to learn myself.


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## goomba (Apr 4, 2016)

JamestheJust said:


> So how would you use the "working tools" to test the proposition that I had ice cream yesterday?  Is it a true statement?



So you want speculative Masons to use symbolic tools to deduce if you did or did not consume an actual item?  That would be like asking operative Masons to use actual tools to know my thoughts (also it would be odd to try to use them to know my dietary history).  Only use the tools for the job that are built for the job.  

I wouldn't use Masonry to find out if you had ice cream yesterday.  I would just say "Did you eat ice cream?"  Then based on your reply I would take you word on the matter of your diet.

As to the truthfulness of the statement about the ice cream there is not enough information to know you dietary history.  

Side note:  This is one of the oddest things I have ever seen show up in a Masonic discussion.


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## goomba (Apr 4, 2016)

How much would I be willing to teach.  Regretfully about twice as much as I actually know.  As with most other topics I think I know more than I actually do.  Which is a paradox since I know this about myself are the preceding statements true?  Who knows, but I would be willing to share anything I do or think I know to those who want to learn not just those who say they want to learn.


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## hanzosbm (Apr 4, 2016)

goomba said:


> Side note:  This is one of the oddest things I have ever seen show up in a Masonic discussion.


Oh, just stick around...


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## hanzosbm (Apr 4, 2016)

goomba said:


> ... I would be willing to share anything I do or think I know to those who want to learn not just those who say they want to learn.


And I completely agree with this.  My concern, however, is with 2 separate situations.  Let me break each of them down and hopefully that'll make my question a little clearer.

1)  A young EA has sat down with you to discuss the degree.  Assuming that you feel him to be worthy and he shows an interest to learn, would you push information to him, or simply give him some things to think about and see if he gets there on his own?
2)  You are addressing a large audience of Masons.  Some you feel worthy and interested in learning, some have no interest whatsoever.  Would you freely share your insights with the masses?


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## Ripcord22A (Apr 4, 2016)

hanzosbm said:


> And I completely agree with this.  My concern, however, is with 2 separate situations.  Let me break each of them down and hopefully that'll make my question a little clearer.
> 
> 1)  A young EA has sat down with you to discuss the degree.  Assuming that you feel him to be worthy and he shows an interest to learn, would you push information to him, or simply give him some things to think about and see if he gets there on his own?
> 2)  You are addressing a large audience of Masons.  Some you feel worthy and interested in learning, some have no interest whatsoever.  Would you freely share your insights with the masses?


 

See heres the thing about Masonry, there is no hard info.  It is all up to the individual to "get there on their own."  you can explain that the Wages of a FC are the C, W, and O, however what they represent will be different to each person.  so you can give all the info you want but what it means to you will not be the same to the person you are speaking too.


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## coachn (Apr 4, 2016)

jdmadsenCraterlake211 said:


> See heres the thing about Masonry, there is no hard info.  It is all up to the individual to "get there on their own."  you can explain that the Wages of a FC are the C, W, and O, however what they represent will be different to each person.  so you can give all the info you want but what it means to you will not be the same to the person you are speaking too.


And when you start working on the wages of a MM, things become a bit tastier.


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## dfreybur (Apr 4, 2016)

hanzosbm said:


> I think this particularly pertains to more esoteric topics and deeper symbolism.



I currently do monthly articles for the trestle board about symbolism.  In each I include a challenge to come up with more meanings yourself.  In written articles it's what I can do.

When it comes to discussing mysticism, the few times it happens I always learn more than I teach.  Since there aren't many brothers interested in mysticism I wonder if both of us feel that way after parting.  It would be the ideal outcome.


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## Bro Asad (Apr 4, 2016)

.


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## Levelhead (Apr 4, 2016)

My goal is to be a District Instructor so im willing to teach whatever a brother wants to learn or be refreshed on.


Sent from Mossy Oak Swamp Bottom


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## goomba (Apr 4, 2016)

hanzosbm said:


> And I completely agree with this.  My concern, however, is with 2 separate situations.  Let me break each of them down and hopefully that'll make my question a little clearer.
> 
> 1)  A young EA has sat down with you to discuss the degree.  Assuming that you feel him to be worthy and he shows an interest to learn, would you push information to him, or simply give him some things to think about and see if he gets there on his own?
> 2)  You are addressing a large audience of Masons.  Some you feel worthy and interested in learning, some have no interest whatsoever.  Would you freely share your insights with the masses?




1.  That would depend on the person as each person learns differently.

2.  I have four thoughts on this:  lowest common denominator, average level, a requested topic and what I want talk about.  The issue with one and two is they are subjective and you might not be able to get the information.  Three would be a good idea for the lodge as they would know the climate of their lodge.  Four I would be most passionate about this as it would something I felt strongly about at the moment.


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## Bloke (Apr 4, 2016)

hanzosbm said:


> And I completely agree with this.  My concern, however, is with 2 separate situations.  Let me break each of them down and hopefully that'll make my question a little clearer.
> 
> 1)  A young EA has sat down with you to discuss the degree.  Assuming that you feel him to be worthy and he shows an interest to learn, would you push information to him, or simply give him some things to think about and see if he gets there on his own?



I think Freemasonry is about discovery and developing the tools to make those discoveries through teaching a man to reflect. If you are spoon feeding him, you are not teaching him to reflect. Mind you, you mgiht spoon feed him starting with the line "I want you to reflect on this then tell me what you think next time we meet......<insert spoon full>"




hanzosbm said:


> 2)  You are addressing a large audience of Masons.  Some you feel worthy and interested in learning, some have no interest whatsoever.  Would you freely share your insights with the masses?



Yes. They are not "masses", they're Freemasons and I think we have a duty to mutually educate each other in the spirit of brotherly love and assisting brothers ... if they really are not interested and I could not interest them, then why waste our time ? Let's talk about something that engages them, when engaged, then you can go back to the point you want to share...

Step 1 is always engaging an audience...


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## Mel Knight (Apr 4, 2016)

You can never go wrong with briefly discussing something directly out of the Blue Book during lodge


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## pointwithinacircle2 (Apr 5, 2016)

JamestheJust said:


> So how would you use the "working tools" to test the proposition that I had ice cream yesterday?  Is it a true statement?





JamestheJust said:


> Is this too hard?


Yeah, actually I tried to figure it out and you stumped me.


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## Derinique Kendrick (Apr 6, 2016)

I would like for the instructor to teach without giving it a way. I like nudges in the right directions. I think I personally learn better that way.


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## BroBook (Apr 6, 2016)

I will and do teach/discuss what ever comes up, I favor nudging, a lil at a time, because, I really want people to grow into what they should be, not what I want them to be.


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## hanzosbm (Apr 7, 2016)

BroBook said:


> I really want people to grow into what they should be, not what I want them to be.


I really like that. Thank you.


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## Derinique Kendrick (Apr 7, 2016)

BroBook said:


> I will and do teach/discuss what ever comes up, I favor nudging, a lil at a time, because, I really want people to grow into what they should be, not what I want them to be.


Excellent viewpoint!


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