# "What you permit, you promote"



## Bloke (Feb 16, 2017)

Hi Brothers. I just read


> What you permit, you promote



What an interesting statement.

I am sure many will have different views on if it's accurate... what "permit" and "promote" means.. but as someone who realises so many things are beyond my control, and also not being very authoritarian and respecting the right of people to do legal things which I do not like and has a belief in freedom and hence many things should not be made illegal based on what I do and don't like. I will permit (tolerate) things I would never promote...

I think of a brothers recent post on attending a gay wedding when he does not believe in them but the statement was made in the context of leasing a masonic building to an " irregular group" and the fact I've leased ours on occasion to the OTO, which a group I would not promote, the phrase "What you permit you promote" is one I would like to discuss.

Perhaps this should be in the philosophy section in the context of ethics versus morals ... but what are the thoughts of members of the  forum on the phrase "What you permit you promote" ?


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## Ripcord22A (Feb 16, 2017)

Gotta think.....I'll be back

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## Bloke (Feb 16, 2017)

Ripcord22A said:


> Gotta think.....I'll be back
> 
> Sent from my LG-H918 using My Freemasonry mobile app



I understand the problem !!! LOL...I hope to hear from you my friend, I'm still thinking about it too, but not sure I will get an answer I am happy with by myself.. hence the post..


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## Bloke (Feb 16, 2017)

(oh, and did you notice in another thread Coach avoided the words "morals" and "ethics" and used  more neutral word "mores" ?)

*end of Coach bait, puts hand back  in burley tin, watches water....*


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## Companion Joe (Feb 16, 2017)

I 100% disagree with the statement "What you permit, you promote."
If everyone would concern themselves with their own business and keep their own business to themselves, we'd all be better off.
The act of minding your own business when something isn't your concern doesn't equate to promoting it.


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## Bloke (Feb 16, 2017)

Companion Joe said:


> I 100% disagree with the statement "What you permit, you promote."
> If everyone would concern themselves with their own business and keep their own business to themselves, we'd all be better off.
> The act of minding your own business when something isn't your concern doesn't equate to promoting it.


Thanks Joe. Its interesting, even "what you do, you promote" is something I disagree with, because not everything I do is good. Smoking being the best example.. but I've twisted the statement and it is probably too yearly for that...

I think one of the problems with the statement is it kinda calls you to be some sort of policemen of other peoples behavior... but again, if we say, permit someone to break the law, especially in a way which hurts others, then are we not promoting what we permit ?

I'll be really interested to see others responses..

Thanks for replying Joe..


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## Brother JC (Feb 17, 2017)

I disagree (as I did in the original thread). If I own a music venue and I only allow bands I personally like to play, I'm going to go broke.


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## Companion Joe (Feb 17, 2017)

Too many cases of hard stances such as this have gotten the world in the shape it is. Nobody has tolerance, and nobody is willing to process any information if it doesn't support what they already believe.
(I'm not talking about crime or something that harms/injures people.)
Not publicly condemning something or permitting it to be done doesn't mean I am promoting it. That means I am minding my own business.
Just because I don't wave the flag for whatever the public cause du jour is doesn't make me an "...ist" or a "...phobe." It simply means it doesn't affect my life one way or the other, so I'm staying out of it.


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## coachn (Feb 17, 2017)

Bloke said:


> (oh, and did you notice in another thread Coach avoided the words "morals" and "ethics" and used  more neutral word "mores" ?)
> 
> *end of Coach bait, puts hand back  in burley tin, watches water....*


<snicker> Wording is sometimes crucial.


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## coachn (Feb 17, 2017)

Bloke said:


> ... but what are the thoughts of members of the  forum on the phrase "What you permit you promote" ?


It's a BS phrase thrown about to justify deeply entrenched bigotry.
Much of the time the word "permit" can't possibly or rightfully apply to what is being targeted.
As for the word "promote", it's an unbelievably guilting-shaming word used to manipulate and it has nothing to do with who would be accused based upon their participatory behavior.
I dismiss it as irrelevant.


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## Brother JC (Feb 17, 2017)

To promote something is to advertise it. Even if you actively permit something to happen (as opposed to tolerating it and allowing it to happen) you are not actively promoting it.


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## Bloke (Feb 17, 2017)

Doesn't sound like the phrase is getting much traction with respondents so far.

Let's narrow it down.

How about bullying? If you have a lodge officer who bullies others and you do nothing, doesn't that tacitly endorse the behaviour ? Would the phrase apply then ?

What about with your children, if you let them lie to get what they want, does the phrase apply then ?


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## Ripcord22A (Feb 17, 2017)

Bloke said:


> Doesn't sound like the phrase is getting much traction with respondents so far.
> 
> Let's narrow it down.
> 
> ...


This is what i was leaning towards.  JCs example of a music venue and Joes about waiving the flag i agree that the term doesnt apply there.  But in Allowing a clandestine lodge to use our building and initiate possibly unsuspecting men into their order says that they are endorsing clandestine masonry.  As for the Wicans that meet there...of course Freemasonry accepts that as we accept all religion.  
As you mentioned in the OP about the gay wedding...your not permitting that as you cant stop it.  But if i allow my kids to be bullies and liars then yeah im promoting that.

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## Keith C (Feb 17, 2017)

Like most things this idea isn't an absolute in my opinion.

The original situation this phrase was applied to, I do not think it is applicable.  While my lodge does not rent space to outside organizations the church I belong to does and I think the situation is equivalent.  We rent space to a Day Care, but other than how the building is used we have no input on how or what they teach. We only insist on assurances that they remain in compliance with all applicable regulations.  Additionally we rent our sanctuary to a small congregation from another denomination, who's Theology, form of governance and philosophies are quite different than ours.  We do not promote these beliefs but have no problem allowing them to use the space as long as it is done respectfully and all is left as it was found.  So in renting out space I do not think you promote another groups beliefs, philosophies, etc by the act.

However, where that phrase is true is in governing the behavior of your own lodge.  There have been several threads recently regarding different issues observed in lodge, cell phone use, side conversations, unmasonic behavior, etc.  I am of the opinion that if these things are permitted or left un-checked they are promoted.  If someone sits through an entire meeting engaged with their cell phone, and nothing is said or done, they will continue in this behavior, and others seeing it who are so inclined will follow suit.  A recent example from my lodge.  Our SW last year, now our WM is hard of hearing.  We have several more senior members, who I might add, have never been through the chairs, but see themselves as experts in the conducting of ritual.  Apparently through most of last year anything the WM did that they thought was "not right" would elicit chatter among themselves. They always sit in the West, just to the right of the SWs station.  The SW, being hard of hearing did not ever notice this chatter.  The JW would speak to these brothers after meeting and politely ask them to refrain, but to no avail.  At our first stated meeting this year the new WM hesitated several times during the opening charge to remember the words.  The peanut gallery started to do their usual chatter.  The new SW, aware of their past behavior noted it, struck his gavel and announced "The brethren will conduct themselves with the respect due the Oriental Chair."  The chatter stopped and hasn't returned.  So in the case of condoned behavior I think it is perceived as promoting poor behavior if it is permitted.


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## coachn (Feb 17, 2017)

Bloke said:


> ...How about bullying? If you have a lodge officer who bullies others and you do nothing, doesn't that tacitly endorse the behaviour ? Would the phrase apply then ?


No


Bloke said:


> ...What about with your children, if you let them lie to get what they want, does the phrase apply then ?


No


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## Brother JC (Feb 17, 2017)

See, I don't feel like we are the Masonic Police Force. The co-masons do not see themselves as "clandestine." Look at that charter, it's addressed to "all regular masons." If someone wants to join them they will, it's neither my job or my duty to work against that.
These people do good work and are proud of their lodge. They don't advertise, very few people outside of their or our organizations know they meet there, and someone who does due diligence will select the lodge they truly want.


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## Bloke (Feb 17, 2017)

Brother JC said:


> See, I don't feel like we are the Masonic Police Force. The co-masons do not see themselves as "clandestine." Look at that charter, it's addressed to "all regular masons." If someone wants to join them they will, it's neither my job or my duty to work against that.
> These people do good work and are proud of their lodge. They don't advertise, very few people outside of their or our organizations know they meet there, and someone who does due diligence will select the lodge they truly want.



The article by Bro Karen Kidd titled  "Am I regular" changed my thinking on regularity- it's relative.


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## Ripcord22A (Feb 17, 2017)

Bro? Karen?

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## Bloke (Feb 17, 2017)

coachn said:


> No
> 
> No


LOL... Short and sweet.

So are all are moral duties purely concerned with the inner man Coach?

( and I can see your next response.... a single "no".....  )


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## Bloke (Feb 17, 2017)

Ripcord22A said:


> Bro? Karen?
> 
> Sent from my LG-H918 using My Freemasonry mobile app



Yep. She's a Co-Freemason.  Read the article. It's pretty short...


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## Bloke (Feb 17, 2017)

Ripcord22A said:


> Bro? Karen?
> 
> Sent from my LG-H918 using My Freemasonry mobile app



Here Rip... it's linked off this url and is short. It is an excellent article and really clarified my thinking on regularity and the Sovereignty of GLS..


http://internet.lodge.org.uk/81-library/shortpapers


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## coachn (Feb 17, 2017)

Bloke said:


> The article by Bro Karen Kidd titled  "Am I regular" changed my thinking on regularity- it's relatively.


Yes.  Indeed it is.


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## coachn (Feb 17, 2017)

Bloke said:


> LOL... Short and sweet.
> 
> So are all are moral duties purely concerned with the inner man Coach?
> 
> ( and I can see your next response.... a single "no".....  )


Heck no.  But it certainly helps when your inner man is moral.


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## goomba (Feb 17, 2017)

If, what your permit, you promote then God permits evil, God promotes evil.  It also means the activities of others requires my permission.  Or on a more personal level:  God permitted my grandfather to die from cancer, God promotes my grandfathers death from cancer.  So God killed by grandfather with cancer.  God killed my grandfather.

God permits X, God promotes X.  This is a very harsh and short sighted view to hold.


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## tldubb (Feb 17, 2017)

Ripcord22A said:


> Bro? Karen?
> 
> Sent from my LG-H918 using My Freemasonry mobile app



See you got jokes..lol


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## Bloke (Feb 18, 2017)

I actually used to interact with Bro Karen quite a bit on another forum, she taught me a lot. Read her article. I'm a very strong advocate of our fraternity staying a fraternity, but I'm also a strong advocate of respecting others traditions, esp long established organisations like the Honourable Fraternity of Woman Freemasons and Le Driot. Karen is a Co-Freemason. We can't talk ritual, but can talk history and symbolism, but she clarified my position on "regularity" and led me to the realisation most Freemasons view their GL as legitimate regardless of if mine will extend amity...


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## tldubb (Feb 18, 2017)

I just read the article my take is, looking at her point of view she has every right to call herself a "regular" mason as far as her jurisdiction.

In my jurisdiction I would not be able to sit in lodge or have any type of Masonic intercourse with her. Violation of 18th landmark and my OB of a MM.


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## Bloke (Feb 18, 2017)

tldubb said:


> I just read the article my take is, looking at her point of view she has every right to call herself a "regular" mason as far as her jurisdiction.
> 
> In my jurisdiction I would not be able to sit in lodge or have any type of Masonic intercourse with her. Violation of 18th landmark and my OB of a MM.
> 
> ...



100% agree.


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## Ripcord22A (Feb 18, 2017)

I agree and disagree.  While we can't tell other people they are clandestine we also don't call brothers/lodges within our jurisdictions clandestine...we tell brothers/lodges within our jurisdictions who, outside, our jurisdictions are/nt clandestine.

Where the split is, is that if i wanted to ignore my obligation, i could go to their meetings and they would let me in, but not vice versa.

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## Brother JC (Feb 18, 2017)

Ripcord22A said:


> Where the split is, is that if i wanted to ignore my obligation, i could go to their meetings and they would let me in, but not vice versa.


Nope. GL(insert state here) Masons are not allowed in their meetings. In fact, while they are renting the facility we aren't even allowed past the front office.


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## coachn (Feb 18, 2017)

Ripcord22A said:


> I agree and disagree.  While we can't tell other people they are clandestine we also don't call brothers/lodges within our jurisdictions clandestine...we tell brothers/lodges within our jurisdictions who, outside, our jurisdictions are/nt clandestine.
> 
> Where the split is, is that if i wanted to ignore my obligation, i could go to their meetings and they would let me in, but not vice versa.
> 
> Sent from my LG-H918 using My Freemasonry mobile app


It's simple.  You must continuously own your division for it to be universally valid.

We can tell other practicing Freemasons that they are clandestine or irregular *to us*, regardless of whether they are within or without.  That is all that matters in the eyes of our respective GLs.  But to label them irregular or clandestine without "*to us*" is to be disrespectful.  Irregularity and Clandestine are terms that apply only to the GL that is using the terms.  

When it is not owned, you start having members talking through their butts and it is most embarrassing to observe.


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## tldubb (Feb 18, 2017)

Yes, it seems like the word clandestine more than often misused. Where the word recognition, recognized should be used instead of clandestine. As Regularity is determined by each of our own Masonic Jurisdictions. At our next district council meeting, I'll ask our GM or his representatives what is their definition of a clandestine mason or made mason as the Grand Lodge defines it.


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## Brother JC (Feb 18, 2017)

In my own lexicon "clandestine" would be a lodge that springs out of nowhere, charges exorbitant fees for profit, and disappears just as quickly.
Just as UGLE has informal cordial and cooperative relations with the Order of Women Freemasons, we can exist in the same reality as the Honoursble Order of American Co-Masonry.
As far as conversation, the Seven Liberal Arts and Sciences are safe, common ground. Play billiards, get Quadrivial.


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## Bloke (Feb 18, 2017)

tldubb said:


> Yes, it seems like the word clandestine more than often misused. Where the word recognition, recognized should be used instead of clandestine. As Regularity is determined by each of our own Masonic Jurisdictions. At our next district council meeting, I'll ask our GM or his representatives what is their definition of a clandestine mason or made mason as the Grand Lodge defines it.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using My Freemasonry



Do American Freemasons use the word "amity" ? I know your GLs do, but I rarely see it in a post.... We often just use the word "Amity" meaning recognised and mutual visitation and "not in Amity" meaning we can't visit. 

We just don't have the same level of irregular and clandestine Masonry that you do in America.... here it's generally regarded as a curio rather than "threat" which seems the posture of many Masons in the States... which I guess I can understand in that they bring a bad name to our regular  organisations when in fact they are nothing to do with it.


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## coachn (Feb 18, 2017)

Bloke said:


> Do American Freemasons use the word "amity" ? ....


Yes


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## tldubb (Feb 18, 2017)

I don't consider them a threat. I know brothers that by my GL would call "clandestine". I personally recognize them as my brothers. But I know that not all would agree on that, but who am I to say what's right or wrong, just following my heart.

I know as a Prince Hall mason, there is strong dislike of "clandestine masonry" especially in the AA/Black community. Mostly coming from our PHA GL's. Which there is a history as far as former Prince Hall masons, for political reasons and or egotistical reasons that have started there own Masonic orders.


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## goomba (Feb 18, 2017)

I generally use the terms "recognize" and "fraternal relations".

Here is where confusion can come into play.  Regular means they meet certain shared beliefs and practices.  Irregular means they do not meet certain shared beliefs and practices.  Clandestine can mean, we don't recognize.

So you can have clandestine masons made regularly, regular mason made irregularly, clandestine masons made irregularly, etc.

In Alabama both Mainstream and PHA grand lodges are regular.  However, they both view each other as clandestine.  Were as some co-masonic bodies are clandestine but can do things regularly in practice.  Or Grand Orient of France who is both clandestine and irregular.  This is why in most conversations I use the two terms I started off with.  It's simpler in my mind.


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## jermy Bell (Feb 19, 2017)

Ripcord22A said:


> Bro? Karen?
> 
> Sent from my LG-H918 using My Freemasonry mobile app


I'm just as lost as you, and will leave this thread more confused.


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## coachn (Feb 19, 2017)

jermy Bell said:


> I'm just as lost as you, and will leave this thread more confused.


It's less confusing when you realize the word "Brother" is used as a title, not a gender designator associated with siblings. 

However, if you can't get past the latter, the former will never be understood much less accepted.


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## bupton52 (Feb 19, 2017)

coachn said:


> It's less confusing when you realize the word "Brother" is used as a title, not a gender designator associated with siblings.
> 
> However, if you can't get past the latter, the former will never be understood much less accepted.



I believe that to be true in a sense that all of mankind (not in gender) is a brotherhood, but as far as the membership requirements of our fraternity RIGHT NOW, that isn't the case. If all GLs changed this tomorrow, this would be different. 


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## bupton52 (Feb 19, 2017)

As the poster of "what you permit, you promote" I'll say that it is a phrase used frequently at my place of employment with regard to management of our respective teams. I can completely agree that this doesn't apply across the board, but it certainly applies to some of those behaviors that directly counter the rules and guidelines given to us at work. 


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## bupton52 (Feb 19, 2017)

For example, our handbook calls for all males to be cleanly shaven and shirts tucked in. As a manager, if I permit one employee to do the opposite of this, I'm effectively allowing everyone to do it. 


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## Ripcord22A (Feb 19, 2017)

bupton52 said:


> For example, our handbook calls for all males to be cleanly shaven and shirts tucked in. As a manager, if I permit one employee to do the opposite of this, I'm effectively allowing everyone to do it.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using My Freemasonry


What do u do?

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## coachn (Feb 19, 2017)

bupton52 said:


> I believe that to be true in a sense that all of mankind (not in gender) is a brotherhood, but as far as the membership requirements of our fraternity RIGHT NOW, that isn't the case. If all GLs changed this tomorrow, this would be different.


Your mindset assumes that the GLs of which you speak govern this; they do not. 

Each GL governs only itself. The GLs that have other genders involved in their workings dictate the application of this "title" according to their rules, not yours.  No matter how you might want to dismiss reality, it shall persist, and do so long after you can no longer make comment.


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## bupton52 (Feb 19, 2017)

coachn said:


> Your mindset assumes that the GLs of which you speak govern this; they do not.
> 
> Each GL governs only itself. The GLs that have other genders involved in their workings dictate the application of this "title" according to their rules, not yours.  No matter how you might want to dismiss reality, it shall persist, and do so long after you can no longer make comment.



Sorry for not being clear and speaking generally, I do understand that each GL is sovereign. I speak for my own GL and what I know of the membership requirements of the GLs here in TX. I haven't heard anything different in any of the other GLs in the States, but I understand that there are different situations overseas. 


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## coachn (Feb 19, 2017)

bupton52 said:


> Sorry for not being clear and speaking generally, I do understand that each GL is sovereign. I speak for my own GL and what I know of the membership requirements of the GLs here in TX. I haven't heard anything different in any of the other GLs in the States, but I understand that there are different situations overseas.


Agreed!  With the caveat added,  "GLs that are recognized by yours and mine."  There are other unrecognized GLs that have a whole different assignment of this title.  Our GLs do not recognize them and hence, it matters not, unless we encounter them.  When we do, it is best to act civil.


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## bupton52 (Feb 19, 2017)

coachn said:


> Agreed!  With the caveat added,  "GLs that are recognized by yours and mine."  There are other unrecognized GLs that have a whole different assignment of this title.  Our GLs do not recognize them and hence, it matters not, unless we encounter them.  When we do, it is best to act civil.



Freemasons are masters of civility aren't we? I would expect nothing less. lol 


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## coachn (Feb 19, 2017)

bupton52 said:


> Freemasons are masters of civility aren't we? I would expect nothing less. lol


I have found that my Masonic Brothers are indeed masters in this respect. 

My Freemasonic Brothers though are often a mixed bag of nuts when it comes to civility.


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## Brother JC (Feb 19, 2017)

As Masons we are expected to be tolerant of those who worship the same Deity, but differently, and who vote for the same office, but differently. How is it that this tolerance does not extend to those who practice the same gentle Craft, but differently?


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## bupton52 (Feb 19, 2017)

Brother JC said:


> As Masons we are expected to be tolerant of those who worship the same Deity, but differently, and who vote for the same office, but differently. How is it that this tolerance does not extend to those who practice the same gentle Craft, but differently?



Just throwing this out there, but according to my GL constitution, this would just be different. It would be unlawfully. *Im certain this comment will generate some convo* lol 


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## coachn (Feb 19, 2017)

bupton52 said:


> Just throwing this out there, but according to my GL constitution, this would just be different. It would be unlawfully. *Im certain this comment will generate some convo* lol


Although the terms used denote "unlawefulness", a more accurate term would be "not in accordance with our rules".  There is a huge difference.


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## Brother JC (Feb 19, 2017)

My obligation says I won't be present at a degree or sit in lodge with them, and even parts of that are subjective based on the definition of "clandestine."
What my obligation does NOT say is that I will vilify them, degrade them, or publicly denounce them. It does not say I cannot do business with them, be friends with them, date them, or work with them.


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## Warrior1256 (Feb 19, 2017)

bupton52 said:


> Freemasons are masters of civility aren't we? I would expect nothing less. lol


We are.


coachn said:


> My Freemasonic Brothers though are often a mixed bag of nuts when it comes to civility.


Also true.


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## Warrior1256 (Feb 19, 2017)

Brother JC said:


> My obligation says I won't be present at a degree or sit in lodge with them


True. 


Brother JC said:


> What my obligation does NOT say is that I will vilify them, degrade them, or publicly denounce them. It does not say I cannot do business with them, be friends with them, date them, or work with them.


Also true. I just don't "recognize" them.


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## Bloke (Feb 19, 2017)

Brother JC said:


> As Masons we are expected to be tolerant of those who worship the same Deity, but differently, and who vote for the same office, but differently. How is it that this tolerance does not extend to those who practice the same gentle Craft, but differently?



I like this and agree. I often draw a parallel between Christianity and Freemasonry. Just as Christianity is a broad label incorporating many groups like Methodists, Anglicans, Baptists and Catholics etc etc with diverse practices and beliefs, they all still sit under the umbrella of Christianity with beliefs common to all. Such is it with Freemasonry, we have groups like AF&AM of men only, others of woman only, others that are mixed all sharing a common heritage and common beliefs... If Karen Kidd believes in many of the things I do and works hard to keep her group going sharing in many of the struggles in do, while I will not admit her to my lodge ( interestingly many co-masons groups will recognise and admit a AF&AM (and F&AM) and will not sit in hers, I can see enough in common and respect her to call her Bro if she wants... indeed, anyone who's nice I'll call bro for as bupton52 said, are we all not in the same journey and often vale of tears ?

Regularity is not really what I had in mind when I posted the phrase "What you permit, you promote".. I was thinking more about wider morality and ethics, but the conversation is interesting...nice to see you bupton52, I don't think we've run into each other much...


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## bupton52 (Feb 19, 2017)

Bloke said:


> I like this and agree. I often draw a parallel between Christianity and Freemasonry. Just as Christianity is a broad label incorporating many groups like Methodists, Anglicans, Baptists and Catholics etc etc with diverse practices and beliefs, they all still sit under the umbrella of Christianity with beliefs common to all. Such is it with Freemasonry, we have groups like AF&AM of men only, others of woman only, others that are mixed all sharing a common heritage and common beliefs... If Karen Kidd believes in many of the things I do and works hard to keep her group going sharing in many of the struggles in do, while I will not admit her to my lodge ( interestingly many co-masons groups will recognise and admit a AF&AM (and F&AM) and will not sit in hers, I can see enough in common and respect her to call her Bro if she wants... indeed, anyone who's nice I'll call bro for as bupton52 said, are we all not in the same journey and often vale of tears ?
> 
> Regularity is not really what I had in mind when I posted the phrase "What you permit, you promote".. I was thinking more about wider morality and ethics, but the conversation is interesting...nice to see you bupton52, I don't think we've run into each other much...



It's a pleasure to meet you as well. I've been on a bit of a hiatus from many Masonic forums. Just easing my way back in for a bit. 


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## Brother JC (Feb 19, 2017)

@Bloke  My thinking, too, nearly verbatim.


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## Bloke (Feb 19, 2017)

bupton52 said:


> It's a pleasure to meet you as well. I've been on a bit of a hiatus from many Masonic forums. Just easing my way back in for a bit.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using My Freemasonry


My first ones are gone T3P then TSS, glad I found this place..


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## Bloke (Feb 19, 2017)

Brother JC said:


> @Bloke  My thinking, too, nearly verbatim.


I often thing it would be better us us another analogy other than a religion, like ball sports; baseball, versus football, vrs soccer vrs basket ball... but it just does not seem to work as well..


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## Brother JC (Feb 19, 2017)

Bloke said:


> I often thing it would be better us us another analogy other than a religion, like ball sports; baseball, versus football, vrs soccer vrs basket ball... but it just does not seem to work as well..


I like it as it encompasses one of our most fundamental teachings.


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## Warrior1256 (Feb 19, 2017)

bupton52 said:


> I've been on a bit of a hiatus from many Masonic forums. Just easing my way back in for a bit.


Nice to have you back Brother.


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## bupton52 (Feb 19, 2017)

Warrior1256 said:


> Nice to have you back Brother.



Nice to be back. 


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## Brother_Steve (Feb 20, 2017)

Companion Joe said:


> I 100% disagree with the statement "What you permit, you promote."
> If everyone would concern themselves with their own business and keep their own business to themselves, we'd all be better off.
> The act of minding your own business when something isn't your concern doesn't equate to promoting it.


I've had this argument with a few non-masons. I'm told that my very statement is contrary to the message being conveyed. I'm told, "You're telling me what to do!" when I'm telling them to practice tolerance. Oh well.


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## Bloke (Feb 20, 2017)

Brother_Steve said:


> I've had this argument with a few non-masons. I'm told that my very statement is contrary to the message being conveyed. I'm told, "You're telling me what to do!" when I'm telling them to practice tolerance. Oh well.



I remember a wonderful conversation on the web on the topic "Should we no longer tolerate too much tolerance". He struck the topic for discussion which was particularly interesting because he was a very liberal  San Francisco Democrat ( sorry if that is a politically charged description, but I plead being a dumb Australian). The conclusion, was, your right to Freedom ends when it impinges on my right to Freedom. In that context " what you permit you promote" does not survive examination..


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## coachn (Feb 20, 2017)

Bloke said:


> ...your right to Freedom ends when it impinges on my right to Freedom. In that context " what you permit you promote" does not survive examination..


Bingo!


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## Bloke (Feb 20, 2017)

coachn said:


> Bingo!



Thanks Coach. It's a good test to apply to situations.


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## Brother_Steve (Feb 21, 2017)

Bloke said:


> "Should we no longer tolerate too much tolerance".


I wanted to start a P.O.O.P. club but the idea was flushed.

People Offended by Offended People.


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## Warrior1256 (Feb 21, 2017)

Brother_Steve said:


> People Offended by Offended People.


This offends me, lol.


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## coachn (Feb 21, 2017)

Warrior1256 said:


> This offends me, lol.


_I should! _


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## Warrior1256 (Feb 21, 2017)

coachn said:


> _I should! _


Lol....you sometimes do but I usually end up agreeing with you.


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