# Investigation Committee



## jfree7997 (Oct 25, 2013)

Once you turn in your petition I know an investigation of some sort is done.  But what all is involved in the investigation?  What exactly is investigated?


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## ErvAlmighty (Oct 25, 2013)

You yourself are investigated. Your personal life and your intentions with the fraternity. 


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## JJones (Oct 25, 2013)

The depth of the investigation depends on a lot of factors such as your jurisdiction, the lodge your petitioning, as well as the investigating brothers themselves.  My lodge, for example, conducts background checks and usually has the petitioner come eat with us before our stated meetings for a few months so we can all get to know him.


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## jfree7997 (Oct 25, 2013)

Ok.  I don't have anything to hide I have just seen a lot of talk about an investigation committee and was just wondering what they look for.


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## jmiluso (Nov 6, 2013)

We do the same thing at my lodge J. Think about it like having a check done on you for a job. Making sure your intentions are true, and you are worthy of the fraternity. 


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## jfree7997 (Dec 5, 2013)

I turned in my petition 2 weeks ago and have not heard anything about an investigation committee yet.  Should I be worried?

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## crono782 (Dec 5, 2013)

I wouldn't be. here, the IC has a month to meet with you.


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## ErvAlmighty (Dec 5, 2013)

No you should not be worried. Meetings are done on an average of every 2 weeks in most lodges (like the 2nd and 4th Wednesday of a month) but in some lodges only once a month. They may have not picked your committee yet or had a meeting yet.


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## Zack (Dec 5, 2013)

jfree7997 said:


> I turned in my petition 2 weeks ago and have not heard anything about an investigation committee yet.  Should I be worried?
> 
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Not in my opinion.  In my jurisdiction everything slows down at this time of year what with lodge elections, installations, the holidays, etc.
It wouldn't be unusual around here for you not to hear anything until January.


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## crono782 (Dec 5, 2013)

as you can see, things are done differently in different jurisdictions. another thing to remember that may be your case: here, the lodge must vote to "accept" your petition before an IC is assigned. this is done at a stated meeting. my lodge only has stated business meetings monthly. so in theory, depending on when you turn it in, it could be nearly a month before they formally accept it. then an IC is assigned. then they have until the next stated to meet with you and report their findings. at that next stated, your petition for the degrees would be voted on. so... again, in theory, it could be a month before an IC is assigned and another before you'd be voted on. it all depends on your lodge and the timing.


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## Bro Darren (Dec 5, 2013)

My investigation consisted of a Q&A session with 2 Brothers and it was not threatening in anyway. They asked me about my background, family background, Do I believe in a supreme being, why I wanted to join and what I wanted to get out of it.
My name was also brought up in Lodge meetings 3 times at my Lodge and once or twice at the other lodges in my area.

That was pretty much the end of it.


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## jfree7997 (Dec 5, 2013)

Ok thank you.  I know they are meeting tonight for elections so maybe it will come up tonight.  Just super excited.

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## Bro Darren (Dec 5, 2013)

jfree7997 said:


> Ok thank you.  I know they are meeting tonight for elections so maybe it will come up tonight.  Just super excited.
> 
> Sent from my VS950 4G using My Freemasonry HD mobile app



Enjoy each step, as each one taken leads to the next


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## jmiluso (Dec 7, 2013)

jfree7997 said:


> Ok thank you.  I know they are meeting tonight for elections so maybe it will come up tonight.  Just super excited.
> 
> Sent from my VS950 4G using My Freemasonry HD mobile app



Just remember, being a freemason is about patience.


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## Browncoat (Dec 7, 2013)

I petitioned during Lodge dark months (August/Sept) so it was nearly 2 months before my petition was even looked at. The IC finally met with me and there was a Q&A, but its not like it was the Spanish Inquisition. Mostly a get to know you thing and the typical questions already mentioned above. Our SW is a sheriff, and is on the IC, so the background check was more thorough than most...but just about anyone can order that stuff online these days.

Be patient. I never heard of any Lodge being in a hurry. 

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## juni83 (Dec 29, 2013)

Does being arrested in the past for possession of marijuana disqualify someone from trying to join?

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## JJones (Dec 29, 2013)

juni83 said:


> Does being arrested in the past for possession of marijuana disqualify someone from trying to join?
> 
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Generally speaking, if it's considered a felony (which I have no clue about possession) then it can be much harder to join (in some jurisdictions it's an outright 'no').  Lesser charges can also weigh against you but it's still much better to be forthright and honest.  I hope that helps.


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## juni83 (Dec 29, 2013)

Thank you for answering. The possession is a misdemeanor charge. And I was never convicted. 

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## MarkR (Jan 2, 2014)

How recent the infraction was is also considered.


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## juni83 (Jan 2, 2014)

It was the beginning of 2012

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## Plustax (Jan 2, 2014)

Being charged but not convicted of a felony is 2 completly different things. However, even that depends on the Lodge being solicited as some still go by "local" rules of preference.


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## jfree7997 (Jan 23, 2014)

So I turned in my petition in December.  Found out a week ago one of my signers was no good.  So I redid my petition and the lodge Secretary said they would take care of my signatures that night.  Am I thinking too much to think that they would have voted that night and that if not accepted I would have gotten a call by now.

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## jmiluso (Jan 23, 2014)

Free your application has to first be approved by the grand lodge then it's voted on in a stated meeting. 


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## jmiluso (Jan 23, 2014)

Jfree what state are you in?


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## jfree7997 (Jan 23, 2014)

Virginia

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## jfree7997 (Jan 23, 2014)

Oh didn't know it had to go up then back down

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## dfreybur (Jan 24, 2014)

jfree7997 said:


> Am I thinking too much to think that they would have voted that night and that if not accepted I would have gotten a call by now.



The first month the petition is accepted and an investigation committee appointed.  If the petition was not accepted you would be notified at that point.  Whatever happened with the signatures you would know today.

There is no ballot for at least one month maybe two.  The committee needs to meet you, make sure your wife is okay with it, do reference checks and so on.  The GL does not need to approve as such in most jurisdictions.  All they check to make sure you have not petitioned other lodges, but more and more jurisdictions are doing the criminal background check part of the investigation.


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## jfree7997 (Jan 24, 2014)

Oh ok so it's at least a month before I should expect to hear from an investigation committee?

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## crono782 (Jan 24, 2014)

Possibly. I tell guys that the process from petition to vote can be up to two months, typically with the investigation in the middle.


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## jfree7997 (Jan 24, 2014)

Ok thank you

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## Radical540 (Feb 4, 2014)

Speaking of acceptance, I'd be curious to know what the "ratio" was of petitioners that get turned away.   I get the impression that membership is SO low, that most petitioners get "rubber-stamp" approval.Can anyone share any experiences where someone got turned away, and why?


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## dfreybur (Feb 4, 2014)

Radical540 said:


> Can anyone share any experiences where someone got turned away, and why?



It is a landmark that the secrecy of the ballot is sacrosanct.  Our votes can not be discussed and none may ask how we vote.  When it happens that a petitioner gets rejected those who know why are forbidden from saying and those who don't know why are forbidden from discussing.  So why is a speculation generally not discussed by those present.

What I have seen is rejections are very rare but I have no idea how much that is selection of lodges on my part nor how much of that is careful screening by top line signers.


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## Brother JC (Feb 4, 2014)

As most of our rejections occurred prior to going to vote, I see no problem paraphrasing the reasons... I've seen negative investigations for crimes, for patterns of recklessness, and for flat-out mercenary motives.


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## Radical540 (Feb 5, 2014)

dfreybur said:


> It is a landmark that the secrecy of the ballot is sacrosanct.  Our votes can not be discussed and none may ask how we vote.  When it happens that a petitioner gets rejected those who know why are forbidden from saying and those who don't know why are forbidden from discussing.  So why is a speculation generally not discussed by those present.
> 
> What I have seen is rejections are very rare but I have no idea how much that is selection of lodges on my part nor how much of that is careful screening by top line signers.



Thanks.  Actually, I was asking in terms of thread topic the Investigative Committee.  That being said, I was curious to how many never even make it to a "vote" and why.  But since you brought up the topic, when I had my IC I actually asked, what happens if someone get "black balled" and was told by the WM (who was part of my IC) that the WM would address the group and say "someone has voted unmasonically" and would possibly need a re-vote.

I only ask this, because there are members amongst my lodge that I can't help but scratch my head and think  "how in the world did you make it past an IC, much less past a vote??"       Not exactly the most savory characters.


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## jfree7997 (Feb 5, 2014)

I talked to the Secretary of the lodge today and he said that my petition is going up for vote on the 20th of this month.  I have not been contacted by the ic yet is that nofmal?

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## Radical540 (Feb 5, 2014)

Sounds about right. My lodge only has 2 meetings per month, and one of them is usually always cancelled.   So everything moves at a snails pace.....


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## jfree7997 (Feb 5, 2014)

Would a vote still happen even if the ic does not meet with me

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## Radical540 (Feb 5, 2014)

I would think not.  The purpose of the meeting is to get to know you, your family, etc.  BEFORE the lodge votes.


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## dfreybur (Feb 5, 2014)

jfree7997 said:


> I talked to the Secretary of the lodge today and he said that my petition is going up for vote on the 20th of this month.  I have not been contacted by the ic yet is that nofmal?



There is a "vote" to receive a petition into the lodge records.  It should happen the stated meeting after you submit the form.  Submit the form the day after a stated meeting and that's a month later.  Submit the form the day before a stated meeting and that's a day later.  The investigation committee is assigned after the petition form is received.  No investigation committee exists before then.  Some lodges have a standing committee, not quite the same thing.

There is a "ballot" to accept a candidate to receive the degrees.  It should happen one or two months after the petition is received to give the investigating committee time.  To come to ballot you had to already meet with the committee.

As today is the 4th it's possible they are taking it on faith that the committee does it work in the next two weeks.  For many lodges it's plenty of time.


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## dfreybur (Feb 5, 2014)

Radical540 said:


> Thanks.  Actually, I was asking in terms of thread topic the Investigative Committee.  That being said, I was curious to how many never even make it to a "vote" and why.  But since you brought up the topic, when I had my IC I actually asked, what happens if someone get "black balled" and was told by the WM (who was part of my IC) that the WM would address the group and say "someone has voted unmasonically" and would possibly need a re-vote.



So far I have learned two rituals on the topic and followed the ballot process in a third.

In California we once voted on 3 candidates together (standard practice there).  There was a cube.  Maybe someone did not like balloting together.  The ritual in California only allows the ballot to be re-done that evening and there is a specific provision that any multiple ballot on a first try be split into individual ballots on the second try.  That evening we all went through the ballot process 4 times for 3 candidates.  Reading twice to make sure I didn't mention the actual outcome, check.

One of the stated meetings during one of my years in the east in Illinois I was once handed a ballot box with the door jammed.  I think one of the balls went underneath and kept it from sliding open.  The force it took to open sprayed the balls and cubes from both chambers all over the place.  I was very apologetic that we had to redo the ballot.  Not a ritual situation but these things can happen when a new SD has never carried a ballot box before.

In Illinois when there are more than one candidates there are more than one boxes on the altar so there is never a need to convert from together to individual.  Some candidates do run in parallel but they are not merged.  The WM reports on all approved candidates.  In Illinois if there is a dark ballot the WM has the option of an immediate re-ballot or doing the ballot again the next month.  Once that rule was read in open stated meeting at a lodge in my district that I was visiting.  Let's just say I recommend that any WM take the option of balloting again the next month if they are ever given that option.

Investigating - Once we were at the house of a petitioner.  We asked his wife if she was okay with him becoming a Mason.  It turned out her minister disapproved.  He said they were going to switch to the church down the street (to me this was a natural response that I would do in that situation).  She glared at him with dagger eyes.  Suddenly all three of us felt the need to go out in their yard and admire their bushes and flowers.  When they asked us back in he was apologetic that he had petitioned.  We arranged to return his petition and check to him.  I think technically we were supposed to make a negative report to the lodge but it worked for us to report the petition had been withdrawn.

Thinking if I recall negative recommendations by committees I was not on.  Something I would deliberately want to blank out of my memory.  Tabla rasa.


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## rfuller (Feb 6, 2014)

jfree7997 said:


> I talked to the Secretary of the lodge today and he said that my petition is going up for vote on the 20th of this month.  I have not been contacted by the ic yet is that nofmal?
> 
> Sent from my VS950 4G using My Freemasonry HD mobile app



Odd question.  If you don't feel comfortable answering I understand.  Which part of the world are in?  

The reason I ask is because I was assigned to an IC but haven't received contact info on the candidate yet as our secretary is overwhelmed with an infant at home.  The vote at my lodge will be on the 20th.  I'm curious if you're one of my candidates.


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## jfree7997 (Feb 6, 2014)

Virginia 

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## rfuller (Feb 6, 2014)

jfree7997 said:


> Virginia
> 
> Sent From My Freemasonry Pro App



Well, just an odd coincidence I suppose.  

Keep in mind at some lodges the IC likes to interview you all together to be more efficient with your time and theirs.  Maybe their schedules don't all meet up until later in the month.  Maybe they haven't gotten your information from a very busy secretary (as is my case).  

Either way, best of luck, and don't sweat it.  It's not a rubber stamp process, but you're not trying to join the CIA either.  They just want to make sure you're a good guy and will fit into Masonry well.


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## Plustax (Feb 7, 2014)

Curious to know if there are some here who may have documents or presentations willing to share on methods of how they perform investigations.... ie.. tools used like Google, myspace, facebook, etc..


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## Bill Lins (Feb 7, 2014)

dfreybur said:


> There is a "vote" to receive a petition into the lodge records.


Not under GLoTX- the petition is "received" and an investigating committee assigned. The only vote occurs after the committee makes its report- usually a month later, sometimes longer.


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## Plustax (Feb 9, 2014)

I still find it surprising & disappointing as to how many still don't perform very good background investigations on petitioners. Even having tools on the internet @ our disposal, many still don't know how to use these free tools. I believe until this is fixed (or learned), our guarding of the "West Gate" will continue to let "unwanted" persons in. This is the reason I'm trying to start a conversation on some methods that are used in doing background investigations. It seems that with all of our modern technology and our younger generation learning about the internet at an early age, it should be fairly easy to run this part of our investigations. I hope we (all 800+ lodges in Tx) tighten up our "West Gate" entrances or it will become as effective as our Texas borders. As harsh as that sounds, there is much truth to that.


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## RyanC (Feb 18, 2014)

One thing I have so far learned is the first lesson in Freemasonry is patience, relax all good things come to those who wait. Get to know the brethren and when the time comes they will truly be you're brothers. I sumitted my petition in Oct of this past year, and than came to every meeting to join in the Lodges pre-meeting meal.


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## jfree7997 (Feb 23, 2014)

Tonight was a great night.  The IC came to see me and my wife.  I feel it went well.  The vote will be on 3/20.  Can't wait so excited.  And my little brother just got his petition also.

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## Ricky.G (Feb 24, 2014)

Congrats jfree, I just received my first degree last week. It was a amazing experience! Good luck!

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## jfree7997 (Feb 24, 2014)

Congrats Ricky I can't wait till I do

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## eXillmatic (Feb 24, 2014)

I can't speak for VA, but in MD we read the petition aloud in a regular scheduled meeting, we can't vote on the petition until 30 days passes after this meeting. We also are required by the Grand Lodge to perform the investigation (3 brothers, none of which can be signers or have a prior relationship to the individual) BEFORE we vote. I have seen it happen where the investigation is performed the day before the initiation and even up to the point that the investigation paperwork was turned in minutes before the meeting commenced.


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## jfree7997 (Feb 24, 2014)

It was read in 2 months ago.  

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## Warrior1256 (Aug 21, 2014)

JJones said:


> The depth of the investigation depends on a lot of factors such as your jurisdiction, the lodge your petitioning, as well as the investigating brothers themselves.  My lodge, for example, conducts background checks and usually has the petitioner come eat with us before our stated meetings for a few months so we can all get to know him.


That's how it happened with me.


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## Pscyclepath (Aug 21, 2014)

We do a criminal background check, and also send out the investigation committee to meet with the petitioner and his family, if possible.  It's not only a quick check on the new candidate, but also a time for him to be able to ask any questions that may be on his mind, as well as for his family to ask any questions they may have.  It's not a negative or intrusive thing at all...


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## Warrior1256 (Oct 3, 2014)

jfree, give us an update please. How is everything going?


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## jfree7997 (Oct 3, 2014)

Going good working on my ea mouth to ear.  Worshipful says should be going up for my fellow craft soon


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## Warrior1256 (Oct 3, 2014)

jfree7997 said:


> Going good working on my ea mouth to ear.  Worshipful says should be going up for my fellow craft soon


Great to hear brother. Keep us posted.


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## jfree7997 (Oct 3, 2014)

Indeed


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## MaineMason (Oct 6, 2014)

I have served on IC committees for my lodge and we certainly don't look for or ask for people's involvement in social media sites. We are old-fashioned in that regard. Personally, I think one can tell a lot about the character of a person by talking to them and to their references. I find the idea of tracking everything anyone has ever said on the internet to be abhorrent, and I suspect would disqualify every candidate if you dug far enough down.


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## Warrior1256 (Oct 7, 2014)

MaineMason said:


> I have served on IC committees for my lodge and we certainly don't look for or ask for people's involvement in social media sites. We are old-fashioned in that regard. Personally, I think one can tell a lot about the character of a person by talking to them and to their references. I find the idea of tracking everything anyone has ever said on the internet to be abhorrent, and I suspect would disqualify every candidate if you dug far enough down.


Excellent points and well said.


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## Chad Paige (Sep 18, 2015)

Hoping someone can wisely advise me on this... and sorry guys, I do tend to get a little breathy.

I am petitioning my local lodge (State: CA) and I have some concerns regarding the criminal history portion of the application... I need to know if these two incidents are worthy of disclosure, because truthfully, I hate having any blemishes on my application if they aren't entirely necessary.

A: 1994 (21 years ago) - I was 17 years old and it's the summer before my SR year of HS.  I and some friends were swimming at a rock quarry where "No Trespassing" signs were clearly posted.  Although this spot was a local's favorite swimming hole for decades, this time the Sheriff rolled through and issued all of us tickets for trespassing.  Being the knucklehead teen that I was, I ended up missing the court date which resulted in a warrant and a few months later I was actually arrested at school and taken downtown until they released me to my parents... new court date, paid a fine, end of story.

B: 1995 (20 years ago) - I and a group of friends were at a SR Prom party that was sadly interrupted by the cops when some tipsy little angels decided to get into a hair-pulling fight out in the hotel parking lot.  Everyone there was issued a ticket for "MIP" _Minor Possession of Alcohol_ - I was 18 years old at the time, so I was a legal adult even though I was still an HS student living with mommy and daddy.  Went to court, paid a fine, end of story.

That is the entirety of my "criminal" history... I've been squeaky clean ever since.  Both of these incidents happened in my home state of VA while I was a high school student two decades ago.  So future brothers, please tell me - is it necessary to list these incidents on the application?  I will admit that I really wish I could just leave that section blank considering the man I am today is no longer the child I was back then.

Looking forward to your advice!


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## LAMason (Sep 18, 2015)

Chad Paige said:


> Looking forward to your advice!



I am not from California and do not know the specifics of their requirements or the language on the petition.  It is my understanding that California is one of the States that does a criminal background investigation, so I would advise you to disclose the information to avoid any potential question that may arise from not disclosing it.

That said, due to length of time since the incidents, your age at the time, and their minor nature, I can not imagine that they would result in anyone having a negative opinion of you.


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## Warrior1256 (Sep 18, 2015)

I don't believe that these two incidents would disqualify you from membership here in Kentucky but I would disclose them on the application. If they run a background check and find these items and you haven't disclosed them then they may question your honesty and integrity.


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## Glen Cook (Sep 18, 2015)

Why don't you look at getting them expunged?


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## Brother JC (Sep 28, 2015)

So, you aren't actually asking a question, just trolling a different topic for like-minded people?


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## Akiles (Sep 28, 2015)

Chad Paige said:


> Hoping someone can wisely advise me on this... and sorry guys, I do tend to get a little breathy.



Freemasonry is, among others things, a big family. You are asking for being part of that family. Do you really think it is a good idea to omit that information???

Think about it....I don't know if you are a father, but imagine that you are, and that your daughter come, one day to your home, in order to present you her fiance, them you ask him if he is clear and have good intentions....and he says "of course"....and a time after that you discover he lied you. Could you trust him anymore????

Sincerely....I wouldn't have into consideration your "criminal" history but your honestity.

We, all of us, are imperfect, and we have to work hard to be better....you, like me, like all, have made some mistakes on your live, but the important thing is: you want to change, you want to be a better man, for yourself, for  your family, and for your community. So, IMHO, I think you mustn't to be afraid about  telling to your future family that you made some mistakes in the past...

Good luck!.

Sorry for my English, I expect you understand what I mean...Saludos.


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## Brother JC (Sep 29, 2015)

Telling people not to respond if they don't agree with you is not respectful, it's rude. As is high-jacking someone else's thread.


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## pointwithinacircle2 (Sep 29, 2015)

B.A.M said:


> do any members believe are Forefathers vision that all American citizens would someday be free and accepted masons, and that we all must be to actually be free?


I need to check and see if I understand your question.   I think you are asking if anyone here believes that our forefathers had a vision that all Americans would someday become Masons.  I have never heard of this idea before.  Where did you find this information?


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## Glen Cook (Sep 29, 2015)

B.A.M said:


> No I'm asking a question is there any supporting evidence that this could be true or a common belief to some.
> I also don't understand and have the question do any members believe are Forefathers vision that all American citizens would someday be free and accepted masons, and that we all must be to actually be free?


No


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## Warrior1256 (Sep 30, 2015)

Glen Cook said:


> No


Agreed.


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## dfreybur (Sep 30, 2015)

B.A.M said:


> Do any of  today's Freemasons believe a individual can receive the three degrees from God,who follow in the footsteps of Jesus's receive these gifts from the Three Wisemen  known as the The three Master Masons?



No.  Our degrees are performed by brothers who are currently alive humans.  Any candidate may take any lesson he wishes from the degrees.  Meanings we find are our own, but they do need to make sense when compared to the meanings found by others.



> If your answer is No cool but please don't respond because I do.



Have fun with that take.

If you are searching for something specific in our family, at this point it does not appear that we have what you seek.


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## Glen Cook (Sep 30, 2015)

dfreybur said:


> No.  Our degrees are performed by brothers who are currently alive humans.....



Hmm. I've seen a couple that made me wonder.


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## dfreybur (Oct 1, 2015)

Glen Cook said:


> Hmm. I've seen a couple that made me wonder.



Note to self.  Do not sip coffee while reading Br Glenn's posts!  Snort/chortle.


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## Warrior1256 (Oct 1, 2015)

Glen Cook said:


> Hmm. I've seen a couple that made me wonder.


Lol!


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## dfreybur (Oct 4, 2015)

B.A.M said:


> I just assumed that this was part of the separation from England and the positions (seats) in Freemasonry that (I assume) were only handed down Father to Son.



There are no hereditary positions within Freemasonry.

Maybe you are confused by the fact that one of the original roles in 1717 was a patron of the royal blood so ever since the Grand Master chair (only) in the Grand Lodge of England (only) has been a member of the royal family whenever a member of the family has been willing to take the chair.  It's just family membership and just for that one post in that one jurisdiction.

Masons do like it if their sons follow and also become brothers but no chairs are ever reserved for them.  The term for a Mason whose father was also a Mason is "Lewis".


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