# Who wrote the first three rituals.



## Center (Dec 21, 2017)

The first three rituals are for me, as student the most amazing ones. 
I read and meditate them since  years and they always surprise me for their deep meaning.
Who was the original author of them? Anderson with some other fellows?

And how is experimentally true that the Royal Arch ( that has in my opinion the same insightful meaning of the first three degrees) was inclusive of the Master Degree.


----------



## Elexir (Dec 21, 2017)

The rituals have slowly been worked on over time with things added and things removed.
In the beginig it was only two.


----------



## David612 (Dec 21, 2017)

Read up on Preston and webb, besides being interesting guys of their own accord they both have a lot to do with ritual


----------



## coachn (Dec 21, 2017)

David612 said:


> Read up on Preston and webb, besides being interesting guys of their own accord they both have a lot to do with ritual


At least, for most of the USA jurisdictions.  Not so much in other areas, were others playwright combinations were involved.


----------



## David612 (Dec 21, 2017)

coachn said:


> At least, for most of the USA jurisdictions.  Not so much in other areas, were others playwright combinations were involved.


I just assume the vast majority here are USA based, personally I’m in Australia


----------



## chrmc (Dec 21, 2017)

This book is an excellent reference on the development of the rituals. 
https://www.amazon.com/Masons-Words-Robert-Davis-ebook/dp/B00EJTV84A/


----------



## coachn (Dec 21, 2017)

David612 said:


> I just assume the vast majority here are USA based, personally I’m in Australia


Good assumption! ;-)


----------



## Center (Dec 22, 2017)

Thank you very much all of you for your precious contributions. The rituals of the Craft are almost not human for their beauty, wisdom and force.
I will definitely buy the book of Robert Davis, it looks really clear-sighted from what I can see. Great reading for the Christmas period vacation Also  I was thinking about reading again the famous Duncan as starting point, but William Preston and   T.S.Webb look fantastic,  I read them only in small portions so far.

Your interventions were really pertinent to me,  furthermore just to quote one, @JamestheJust brought forward indirectly an essential question in my opinion regarding the rituals:Is more important the cultural reference that presented for the first time a symbol, or is a successive "modification" even more meritorious as insight? This is a question not easy to reply and make central the continuity and the importance of an association as the Freemasonry in the world.

Dear Friends, almost certain that the light will keep always shining in the darkness, my best wish is that the winter solstice may bless you your temple three times


----------



## Warrior1256 (Dec 22, 2017)

JamestheJust said:


> Three working tools per degree can be seen in the Mithraic lodge - along with a 7 rung ladder with a star at the top.
> 
> Raising with the lion's grip comes from Egypt - as does the Widow's Son.
> 
> ...


Good info!


----------



## coachn (Dec 22, 2017)

Warrior1256 said:


> Good info!


Not really.  You might want to do your due diligence on all this before you accept what was provided.


----------



## coachn (Dec 22, 2017)

JustJames said:
			
		

> It may be inaccurate to assume that the originals were symbolic.  My limited observation is that the ancient rituals were literal.  In modern times we lack the spiritual technology and thus perform imitations.


----------



## Warrior1256 (Dec 22, 2017)

coachn said:


> Not really. You might want to do your due diligence on all this before you accept what was provided.


Very true, but with most questions of this nature I will find multiple answers anyway.


----------



## Bro Asad (Dec 23, 2017)

Macoy of Macoy publishing.


----------



## BullDozer Harrell (Dec 23, 2017)

Center said:


> The first three rituals are for me, as student the most amazing ones.
> I read and meditate them since  years and they always surprise me for their deep meaning.
> Who was the original author of them? Anderson with some other fellows?
> 
> And how is experimentally true that the Royal Arch ( that has in my opinion the same insightful meaning of the first three degrees) was inclusive of the Master Degree.


I haven`t heard much about Anderson and his involvement  with assisting to frame early English masonic ritual. In fact this is the 1st time i`m hearing it.

I remember Anderson and the early English Constitutions.

Sent from my SM-T377P using My Freemasonry mobile app


----------



## coachn (Dec 24, 2017)

BullDozer Harrell said:


> ...I remember Anderson and the early English Constitutions...


Darn Bro.!  How old ARE you? ;-)


----------



## Warrior1256 (Dec 24, 2017)

coachn said:


> Darn Bro.! How old ARE you? ;-)


***snicker snicker***


----------



## Center (Dec 27, 2017)

@JamestheJust
Thank you very much for your link, the edge between symbolic and literal is one of the most complex to disentangle.
I went trough your interesting link with the Herodotus quotations.
The dispute about how sacred texts have to be read is still present today. For instance as I chosed to be part of a rosicrucian fringe order, I  agree to partake to a current of thought that would like to see the bible with symbolic meanings that overweight the literal ones, but still today you are going to find a lot of students (more o less catholic) that will defend the literal aspect.

For instance I start to independently give credit that Isis could be more o less identified with the Holy Ghost in the Christian trinity. But would open another post for that.

Most of the ancient rites were literal and using drugs and sex. But still the archeoastronomy showed some wisdom that suggested a much more  articulated symbolic system. The thoughtfulness of thinkers as Plato  when mentions the pythagorean methaphors (for instance a perforated cup to contain the passions), put forward for consideration the ability from the ancients to use the symbols. Much-debated have been in the modernity the structuralist french studies of Vernant and Levi Strauss about the importance of the symbols for the ancient Greeks, how the polymorphic meanings of the deities, namely a no unilateral interpretation makes these symbols so important to us, because open to several interpretations, this is also a masonic principle as far as I spoke in some lodges, where there is not a dogmatic meaning for a particular symbol.
Said that, all the roots of the religions are in really literal rituals, where the female fecundity, as in Artemis, Potnia Theron, Diana, Cybele is all a recall with enrichments of the more simple Paleolithic and Mesolithic themes of big breasted females. So still you could see in some documentary, modern men from "civilizations without the writing techniques" that were inserting their erected penis into the ground as way to have prosperous harvests, as to sustain the fact that initially the literal part, the sun and the nature were playing a role much more practical than esoteric.
But the point that even some masonic authors miss at my advice is that outside the external manifestation of astronomic phenomena the role of corrispondence between micro and macro cosmos play an important role in the mystery, I read Know thyself on the entrance of some Lodges I visited after all.

@BullDozer Harrell
the famous 1717 Goose and Giridon story comes from Anderson second edition of the constitutions. The problem is that the sources he quotes are not always reliable, and also he was putting is point of view. With these premises I would not be surprised that Anderson  wrote/elaborate them together with other enlightened minds. These are the years  where  the landmarks are taking a substantial form, far before the categorizations will see a century after from Albert Mackey. But mines are only speculations, as I would like to shed light on who wrote the rituals as written in the title of this thread.


----------



## acjohnson53 (Dec 27, 2017)

It's funny how we discuss Rituals, I know each Jurisdiction has a revised version of their original Ritual, for instance when I retured back to the states in 1994 and started working out a Lodge in Victorville, I had to buy a new Ritual for California, because you couldn't use a Ritual from another Jurisdiction which was Oklahoma. But I have several Ritual that were used in the past like the Old Duncans which is used in the Southern States it is also encrypted..


----------



## CLewey44 (Dec 27, 2017)

acjohnson53 said:


> It's funny how we discuss Rituals, I know each Jurisdiction has a revised version of their original Ritual, for instance when I retured back to the states in 1994 and started working out a Lodge in Victorville, I had to buy a new Ritual for California, because you couldn't use a Ritual from another Jurisdiction which was Oklahoma. But I have several Ritual that were used in the past like the Old Duncans which is used in the Southern States it is also encrypted..


Btw, brother, welcome home.


----------



## hanzosbm (Dec 27, 2017)

David612 said:


> Read up on Preston and webb, besides being interesting guys of their own accord they both have a lot to do with ritual


Not to disagree with brother David612, but rather to offer some context that I think a lot of American Masons miss;

Preston wrote most of the _lectures_ we are now familiar with (Webb basically edited Preston's work).  You know the very long parts that you take a deep breath before reciting?  Those were Preston/Webb.  For one thing, Preston's Illustrations of Masonry was written about Freemasonry, not as the ritual itself.  It's freely available online and I'd encourage you to look through it to see not only what is the same and different from what we know today, but also the context in which it was written.  Personally, I think it's a long stretch to say they wrote the ritual, but rather, they commentated on the ritual and their writings were later incorporated into the ritual to better explain it.  I don't believe that was ever Preston's intention, Webb is a different story.

Prior to this, Anderson's Constitutions outlined a lot of Old Charges which included a lot of the rules and obligations we see in our current degrees, but in different verbiage.  This was also the time that the Grand Lodge was trying to at least somewhat standardize the rituals.  We don't really know what the degrees looked like around this time or before.  We have catechisms from earlier and some of them, like the Edinburgh House Register, do mention the candidate going through a series of events similar to floorwork.  Other than that, the early catechisms are about the symbols of the fraternity, so we don't know what, if any, degree work there was.  It's possible that it consisted solely of swearing a short oath on the constitutions and then listening to the catechism spoken by others, or, it could've been as elaborate as what we have today, we simply don't know.


----------



## David612 (Dec 27, 2017)

hanzosbm said:


> Not to disagree with brother David612, but rather to offer some context that I think a lot of American Masons miss;
> 
> Preston wrote most of the _lectures_ we are now familiar with (Webb basically edited Preston's work).  You know the very long parts that you take a deep breath before reciting?  Those were Preston/Webb.  For one thing, Preston's Illustrations of Masonry was written about Freemasonry, not as the ritual itself.  It's freely available online and I'd encourage you to look through it to see not only what is the same and different from what we know today, but also the context in which it was written.  Personally, I think it's a long stretch to say they wrote the ritual, but rather, they commentated on the ritual and their writings were later incorporated into the ritual to better explain it.  I don't believe that was ever Preston's intention, Webb is a different story.
> 
> Prior to this, Anderson's Constitutions outlined a lot of Old Charges which included a lot of the rules and obligations we see in our current degrees, but in different verbiage.  This was also the time that the Grand Lodge was trying to at least somewhat standardize the rituals.  We don't really know what the degrees looked like around this time or before.  We have catechisms from earlier and some of them, like the Edinburgh House Register, do mention the candidate going through a series of events similar to floorwork.  Other than that, the early catechisms are about the symbols of the fraternity, so we don't know what, if any, degree work there was.  It's possible that it consisted solely of swearing a short oath on the constitutions and then listening to the catechism spoken by others, or, it could've been as elaborate as what we have today, we simply don't know.


As an Aussie the works of Preston and Webb are pretty irrelevant to be but in a US context I think it’s interesting to know the history of those two and the impact they had on ritual in their time and the events surrounding the changes, it sort of reframes the question being asked in my opinion.


----------



## hanzosbm (Dec 27, 2017)

David612 said:


> As an Aussie the works of Preston and Webb are pretty irrelevant to be but in a US context I think it’s interesting to know the history of those two and the impact they had on ritual in their time and the events surrounding the changes, it sort of reframes the question being asked in my opinion.


Agreed.  I wish I could attend lodge in some of the jurisdictions which were not influenced by them to see the differences.  Topics like this always fuel my curiosity and I went back and reread some of the old catechisms.  There's a lot of information there and you can definitely see that more was going than just what the catechism lists (just like today), but it would be interesting to know just how much explanation was happening.  Was the degree something that took 15 minutes or 3 hours?  We'll never really know, but its fun not only to wonder, but also to read them and see which pieces have stayed the same and which have changed, and how they've changed.


----------



## David612 (Dec 27, 2017)

hanzosbm said:


> Agreed.  I wish I could attend lodge in some of the jurisdictions which were not influenced by them to see the differences.  Topics like this always fuel my curiosity and I went back and reread some of the old catechisms.  There's a lot of information there and you can definitely see that more was going than just what the catechism lists (just like today), but it would be interesting to know just how much explanation was happening.  Was the degree something that took 15 minutes or 3 hours?  We'll never really know, but its fun not only to wonder, but also to read them and see which pieces have stayed the same and which have changed, and how they've changed.


Exactly how I see it, I think Preston especially is interesting and the impact he made on the ritual and the way he went about it is just fascinating so it makes you wonder the circumstances around all the developments between lodges, states and countries.


----------



## Center (Dec 27, 2017)

hanzosbm said:


> Preston's Illustrations of Masonry was written about Freemasonry, not as the ritual itself. It's freely available online and I'd encourage you to look through it to see not only what is the same and different from what we know today, but also the context in which it was written.



First of all I want to express how is deep and beautiful your signature
*"Wisdom might be defined as Virtue plus Knowledge multiplied by Contemplation." -- Bro. Hal Riviere*

Thank you, to wrap up I am getting that my research does not have to be really historical, but much more philosophical. This gives space to this rhetorical question that tautologically does not need any reply: How is important to know who wrote the BL rituals, if I can enjoy different versions? If by comparison I should find rituals version that I feel I can contemplate in a better way than others,  I can always invest some time trying to understand the historical context, the type of obedience, and its familiarity with some particular appendant bodies, and only at end I could isolate a group of individuals that wrote them and go trough their biography or their life curiosities. What matters is to build on in ourselves the moral lessons, not to try to find the sources of this association. To repeat your reply we would find often a 'we do not know', does not relatively matter if  the operative thing is if started in 1717, or 1721, or with the medieval corporations, or since the beginning of the humanity, what is much important is what is written and how that context is adaptable today to a seeker of the light.


----------



## hanzosbm (Dec 27, 2017)

Center said:


> First of all I want to express how is deep and beautiful your signature
> *"Wisdom might be defined as Virtue plus Knowledge multiplied by Contemplation." -- Bro. Hal Riviere*
> 
> Thank you, to wrap up I am getting that my research does not have to be really historical, but much more philosophical. This gives space to this rhetorical question that tautologically does not need any reply: How is important to know who wrote the BL rituals, if I can enjoy different versions? If by comparison I should find rituals version that I feel I can contemplate in a better way than others,  I can always invest some time trying to understand the historical context, the type of obedience, and its familiarity with some particular appendant bodies, and only at end I could isolate a group of individuals that wrote them and go trough their biography or their life curiosities. What matters is to build on in ourselves the moral lessons, not to try to find the sources of this association. To repeat your reply we would find often a 'we do not know', does not relatively matter if  the operative thing is if started in 1717, or 1721, or with the medieval corporations, or since the beginning of the humanity, what is much important is what is written and how that context is adaptable today to a seeker of the light.


I completely agree.  Our rituals are full of symbolism which I personally feel are the most important part of Freemasonry and while the history by itself is of little concern to me, one reason I have read as much of it as I have is that I feel that over the years, the way that symbolism has been taught and transmitted has changed.  Reading the rituals (or at least the catechisms of the past) to me is like seeing the lessons from a different angle which helps deepen my understanding, or at least, my contemplation. 
Then again, maybe that's the point.  The more vague the lesson, the deeper the contemplation.  Perhaps the goal wasn't to give the initiate a roadmap, but instead to leave it vague enough to cause him to search so much that he eventually turns that search inward.  What better way to learn to 'know thyself'?


----------



## Elexir (Dec 27, 2017)

Calling back to forces occultes, clips from the movie is in the video for "from the pinnacle to the pit" by Ghost.


----------



## hanzosbm (Dec 27, 2017)

JamestheJust said:


> >I wish I could attend lodge in some of the jurisdictions which were not influenced by them
> 
> In 1943 the Nazis produced a film about French Masonry.   There were various rituals in use in France, and it seems that the version in the film is an accurate representation of an initiation of that time.
> 
> ...


Thank you for that.  I've seen this pop up a few times on Exodus when I search Freemason, but I just figured it was junk.  I'll have to check it out.


----------



## Glen Cook (Dec 27, 2017)

hanzosbm said:


> Agreed.  I wish I could attend lodge in some of the jurisdictions which were not influenced by them to see the differences.  Topics like this always fuel my curiosity and I went back and reread some of the old catechisms.  There's a lot of information there and you can definitely see that more was going than just what the catechism lists (just like today), but it would be interesting to know just how much explanation was happening.  Was the degree something that took 15 minutes or 3 hours?  We'll never really know, but its fun not only to wonder, but also to read them and see which pieces have stayed the same and which have changed, and how they've changed.


Attend in Scotland, PA , England for a TI ritual and join the operatives. Make sure you do English HRA. My next meeting is 18 Jan, tyle at six,and you listen to my flat lander voice deliver Midlands HRR ritual. 

Read Harrison’s new book on lost rituals and Stephen’s First Freemasons 

Of course you could have come with me as G lecturer when I saw, regrettably, a variety rituals ,regrettably  all denominated as Utah work.


----------



## hanzosbm (Dec 27, 2017)

Glen Cook said:


> Attend in Scotland, PA , England for a TI ritual and join the operatives. Make sure you do English HRA. My next meeting is 18 Jan, tyle at six,and you listen to my flat lander voice deliver Midlands HRR ritual.
> 
> Read Harrison’s new book on lost rituals and Stephen’s First Freemasons
> 
> Of course you could have come with me as G lecturer when I saw, regrettably, a variety rituals ,regrettably  all denominated as Utah work.


Regarding the work in Utah, that got a good chuckle out of me.  My old lodge in Kentucky had so many brothers from around the country and so little oversight to force them to adopt KY ritual that it tended to be a bit of a hodgepodge.  Usually it wasn't an issue, occasionally there was an unexpected question to which the answer was unknown.

As for Harrison's new book, I just happened to come across that recently and I was curious if anyone had read it and their thoughts, so that's very good to hear.  As for English HRA...I'm a bit confused.  Are there different versions performed?  I suppose that's a dumb question considering all the variation in ritual, but how would I know which one was practiced in the California York Rite bodies?


----------



## Glen Cook (Dec 27, 2017)

hanzosbm said:


> Regarding the work in Utah, that got a good chuckle out of me.  My old lodge in Kentucky had so many brothers from around the country and so little oversight to force them to adopt KY ritual that it tended to be a bit of a hodgepodge.  Usually it wasn't an issue, occasionally there was an unexpected question to which the answer was unknown.
> 
> As for Harrison's new book, I just happened to come across that recently and I was curious if anyone had read it and their thoughts, so that's very good to hear.  As for English HRA...I'm a bit confused.  Are there different versions performed?  I suppose that's a dumb question considering all the variation in ritual, but how would I know which one was practiced in the California York Rite bodies?


California has a standard work which is very common in the US. Yes, different versions in England. My chapter in Cheshire uses the Midlands ritual and some of their own  concoctions, including when to give the Penalty sign. My Cheshire lodge has its own third degree (est 1806).


----------



## Bloke (Jan 8, 2018)

David612 said:


> As an Aussie the works of Preston and Webb are pretty irrelevant to be but in a US context I think it’s interesting to know the history of those two and the impact they had on ritual in their time and the events surrounding the changes, it sort of reframes the question being asked in my opinion.


I've read several versions of Preston Webb and suggest they are not irrelevant. For instance, here in Australia, Lodges used to have Dinners and functions on St John's Day, reading something like a PA ritual helps understand why... When I was a history undergraduate, I will never forget something a professor told me - "You can understand what something is by understanding what it is not"....  I think reading other rituals is quite useful to that end, and also generally understanding Freemasonry in other countries.. Unfortunately, its restricted to the English Language for me - which leaves big gaps I suspect..


----------

