# Station and Place Questions



## Rick Carver (Aug 28, 2014)

The WM, SW and JW are said to have a "station" while the other officers are said to have a "place." Any thoughts on why this is? In many jurisdictions, it is said that the Tyler "is stationed" but I think this may be erroneous and that he actually has a place. My reasoning behind this belief is that both the Kansas and Colorado manual of movements make direct reference to the Tyler doing something or other, and then returning to his "place." Is my belief valid? How goes this in other jurisdictions?

Robert Herd commandeth me to investigate this, and I agreed to do so for a future article in _*Living Stones Magazine*_.  Names are changed to protect the innocent.


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## Pscyclepath (Aug 28, 2014)

May depend on the ritual in your particular jurisdiction...  Here in AR, it refers to "stations" for all officers in the opening and closing.


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## Levelhead (Aug 28, 2014)

I think its because they stay somewhat in the area of their station as in the word "stationed"

The Wm does move from the podium but stays on the east side of the lodge and never passes the east side if the lodge, (unless he takes it upon him self to shake the hand of a candidate who had done something proficient) the candidate or brother is standing in the west opposite of the alter facing east.  

The same goes for the wardens , and tyler.

The others Deacons, and Stuarts have floor work to walk about the lodge.

Thats just how i see it. Brothers are always conducted to the stations, the brothers AT the stations are never conducted or asked to move out of the section of their station (section meaning: East, South, or West.


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## dfreybur (Aug 28, 2014)

I learned it as referring to the movable and immovable ashlars in one of the lectures.

Movable ashlars are placed somewhere for the moment.  Immovable ashlars are stationed permanently as a part of an edifice.  In architecture let's call it load bearing or not.  This isn't just a matter of floor work during degrees.  It has to do with the evolution of the line of officers.  Different jurisdictions have different sets of officers, but what jurisdiction does not have wardens and a master?  It also has to do with which officers might be either elected or appointed and which officers must be elected.


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## Rick Carver (Aug 28, 2014)

Personally, I think the Secretary should have a pedestal so all can adore him and tremble beneath him. Places? I don't need no stinkin' places!


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## Rick Carver (Aug 28, 2014)

See if anyone disagrees with this:  (if so, feel free to say so)

In the Kansas jurisdiction, the Worshipful Master, Senior Warden, Junior Warden and Tyler are said to have a _station_ while all other officers have a _place_. This terminology and usage varies somewhat in other jurisdictions.

In Germany, the Worshipful Master is said to have a _seat_ while the Senior and Junior Wardens each have a _place_. This is because in the old rituals of the 18th century, all Brothers, including the officers, literally remained standing and only the Worshipful Master had a chair to sit. Today, everyone is seated but the Wardens knock their gavels on the pommel of their swords because they have no pedestal or other furniture to knock on.http://myfreemasonry.com/#_edn1_

In Australia, the Worshipful Master, Senior and Junior Wardens have a place while the Senior and Junior Deacons and the Inner Guard (Tyler) are said to have a situation.[ii]

The use of station and place have changed through the years in the United States, however many of the US jurisdictions denote the Worshipful Master, Senior and Junior Wardens as having a station while the remaining officers have a place. Kansas is somewhat outside the norm in that we conclude that the Tyler has a station. I personally believe this may be a misconception, and I will explain my thinking on this later.

In order to fully understand the difference, it is important to look at the root of the words as well as the psychological meanings each holds to the human ego. Station or sta refers to a fixed point; a beginning for a measurement; or originating from a specific point. Place is from the root plat, and means to spread or to have motion.

Thus, one is a fixed point and the other movement. They relate to the microcosm of the human psyche and it remains a good argument that the stations are parts of the psychological makeup of man and, likewise, the places are extensions of our interaction in the material world as they move on the mosaic of the material existence.[iii]

Place and situation have important meanings in the psychology of the ego as well. Both terms are found regularly grouped together in various Masonic rituals and relate specifically to communication and sense of perception. Again, one is fixed, the other not; one is capacity, the other potential. Capacity exists in the present, while potential relates to the past, present, and future.[iv]

These beliefs also align with the lectures of the Entered Apprentice degree regarding immovable and movable jewels. There, we are told that the immovable jewels are the square, plumb and level, which are emblematic of the three principal officers of the Lodge. Since they wear these immovable jewels, the Worshipful Master, Senior and Junior Wardens are themselves immovable, and are thus assigned “stations” at the East, West and South entrances of the temple, which are likewise immovable.

The other officers serve as intermediaries for the three principal officers and they move about the Lodge according to orders received. The importance of their locations is not tied to any specific place, and their relationships are relative to the stations of the various principal officers.[v]

Among their other duties, the principal officers of the Lodge are tasked with instruction and examination of the candidate. This is done entirely from their fixed stations. The Stewards, Deacons and Marshal (when used) are nearly always in transition while performing their duties, and are thus assigned a place, as in: the place they currently occupy to perform them.

The Treasurer and Secretary have few duties in Masonic ritual. Since nether office is associated with an immovable jewel, it seems logical to conclude that they would also be said to occupy a place in the Lodge.

This leaves the Tyler and why he may or may not have a station. Since the Tyler does not wear an immovable jewel, it could be argued that his place is neither stationary nor fixed. Yet, in the lectures of the Entered Apprentice degree, we are instructed about the duty and propriety of our respective stations.

We are also instructed that our ancient brethren usually met on a high hill or a low dale, so they could guard against the profane. This explanation perfectly dovetails with the duties of the Tyler. As he performs this duty, he is always stationed as a fixed point outside the door of the Lodge. This duty is so necessary and well-regulated that he must be relieved by another officer in order to enter the Lodge and cast his ballot to accept a candidate. The adherence to this rigid practice makes a strong argument for the Tyler being said to hold a station, at least in our jurisdiction.

My personal and contrary argument that the Tyler has a place is a direct reference to the printed and accepted books of Uniform Manual of Movements for both Kansas and Colorado. Both of them make direct references to the Tyler performing a duty here or there, and then he “returns to his place.” I am the first to admit this is a somewhat weak argument.

Either term seems perfectly acceptable and proper, but since our Ritual says that the Tyler is stationed, this is the usage we should follow.

Regardless if the jewel they wear is immovable or movable, in every opening/closing of the Lodge each officer is questioned directly or through the previous officer regarding his station or place, and then his duty there. This location and duty serves not only as a teaching tool for those who attend Lodge, but also provides a ritualistic catechism. It is a test — much like the Pass, the Grip and the Step. Each officer must ritualistically and correctly announce where they are located and why there.

This ritualistic catechism of questions and responses are quite prevalent in the old rituals of Masonry, but have become more and more abbreviated in the modern rituals. In doing so, we have unfortunately often lost some of the meaning as to what was being conveyed in them._


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## hollywoodbwc (Aug 28, 2014)

Here in SC the WM, SW and JW are all in stations while are the other officers are in places. I agree with Bro. Doug in that with the evolution of the terms, those 3 officers are the "load bearing" officers of the lodge. You only need 3 people to open a lodge of master masons, and one of those HAS to be a warden of the WM.


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## Warrior1256 (Aug 28, 2014)

So really the only difference is the wording, they all mean the same?


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## Willys (Aug 28, 2014)

My Texas Monitor of the Lodge doesn't say much but does define Station as _'a place where a person or thing usually stnads or is; an assigned location.'_

I would take it then that the other Officers have a place, as in no (somewhat) immovable landmark that denotes where they may always be found.


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## Warrior1256 (Aug 28, 2014)

Willys said:


> My Texas Monitor of the Lodge doesn't say much but does define Station as _'a place where a person or thing usually stnads or is; an assigned location.'_
> 
> I would take it then that the other Officers have a place, as in no (somewhat) immovable landmark that denotes where they may always be found.


Thank you brother.


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## hollywoodbwc (Aug 28, 2014)

Brother Warrior,

 To expand on what Brother Willys has said, the JW will always be found in the south, the SW always in the West and the WM always in the East. Some other officers may move, but those will always be in their respective stations.


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## Bill Lins (Aug 29, 2014)

Something else to consider- while a "place" may be left vacant temporarily, "stations" must always be occupied while a Lodge is @ labor.


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## Brother JC (Aug 29, 2014)

NM is "stations" for the WM & Wardens, "places" for everyone else. I can't remember any specification regarding the Tyler, but I've always understood it to be "place."


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## Companion Joe (Aug 29, 2014)

Maybe it's probably a whole lot more simple. Station is used for the three primary elected* officers, and place is used for the appointed officers. It's just a turn of phrase to denote the difference with no deeper meaning.

*yes, the secretary and treasurer are elected, but they don't play a major role degree work, etc.


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## pointwithinacircle2 (Aug 29, 2014)

Bill_Lins77488 said:


> Something else to consider- while a "place" may be left vacant temporarily, "stations" must always be occupied while a Lodge is @ labor.


This idea sounds like a worthy candidate for a short talk during Lodge education night.  Can you point me towards any documentation on this idea?


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## Warrior1256 (Aug 29, 2014)

hollywoodbwc said:


> Brother Warrior,
> 
> To expand on what Brother Willys has said, the JW will always be found in the south, the SW always in the West and the WM always in the East. Some other officers may move, but those will always be in their respective stations.


Thank you brother. I'm a new MM and trying to learn.


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## Brother_Steve (Aug 29, 2014)

dfreybur said:


> I learned it as referring to the movable and immovable ashlars in one of the lectures.
> 
> Movable ashlars are placed somewhere for the moment.  Immovable ashlars are stationed permanently as a part of an edifice.  In architecture let's call it load bearing or not.  This isn't just a matter of floor work during degrees.  It has to do with the evolution of the line of officers.  Different jurisdictions have different sets of officers, but what jurisdiction does not have wardens and a master?  It also has to do with which officers might be either elected or appointed and which officers must be elected.


Similar here.

The furniture of the lodge. You have movable furniture and immovable furniture.

The Square, Level and Plumb are immovable pieces of furniture and thus are stations.


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## coachn (Aug 29, 2014)

My sons have a Place Station 3.  Does that help?


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## pointwithinacircle2 (Aug 29, 2014)

Brother_Steve said:


> The Square, Level and Plumb are immovable pieces of furniture and thus are stations.


 Interesting, but not universal.  In some jurisdictions the Square, Level and Plumb are the movable jewels and in others they are the immovable jewels.


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## Willys (Aug 29, 2014)

trysquare said:


> NM is "stations" for the WM & Wardens, "places" for everyone else. I can't remember any specification regarding the Tyler, but I've always understood it to be "place."


Seems at some point the Tiler is induced to confirm your understanding.


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## Warrior1256 (Aug 29, 2014)

coachn said:


> My sons have a Place Station 3.  Does that help?


Good one!


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## Bill Lins (Aug 29, 2014)

pointwithinacircle2 said:


> This idea sounds like a worthy candidate for a short talk during Lodge education night.  Can you point me towards any documentation on this idea?



Let me do some research on that & get back to you. AFAIK, it is part of the floorwork promulgated by our Committee on Work, but I'll see if I can find something written on it. I can cite examples, if that'll help. Under GLoTX, if a Warden or Master needs to leave his station, he hands his jewel to another Brother, who fills the station until the Warden or Master returns. When receiving Grand Lodge officers, while the Brethren form 2 lines between the door & the altar, the Wardens & Master are not to vacate their stations. In the absence of the Master, the SW takes his place, but the JW remains in his station- he does not move up to the SW's station. (That one is in our Law- see below)

*Art. 286.  Junior Warden: Not Affected: When.* 
_The Junior Warden is not affected by the Senior Warden having to act as Worshipful Master, nor by the absence of the Senior Warden from a meeting at which the Master is present, nor by vacancy in the office of Senior Warden, but retains his station and a pro tempore Senior Warden shall be appointed._


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## Brother JC (Aug 29, 2014)

Brother_Steve said:


> The furniture of the lodge. You have movable furniture and immovable furniture.
> 
> The Square, Level and Plumb are immovable pieces of furniture and thus are stations.


In NM and CA, the furniture of the lodge consists of the three Great Lights. It's the "jewels" that are moveable and immovable.


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## Brother JC (Aug 29, 2014)

Willys said:


> Seems at some point the Tiler is induced to confirm your understanding.


Not really. With the exception of someone wanting to enter after Opening, the Tyler never speaks.
I checked the Installation, as well; no mention of station or place.


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## Willys (Aug 29, 2014)

trysquare said:


> Not really. With the exception of someone wanting to enter after Opening, the Tyler never speaks.
> I checked the Installation, as well; no mention of station or place.


I do believe, at a very early point, there is a question directed at the Tiler, to which he responds and is then 'put in his _place_'.


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## Brother JC (Aug 29, 2014)

During the Opening? Not in my neighborhoods.


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## BroBook (Aug 29, 2014)

Rick Carver said:


> The WM, SW and JW are said to have a "station" while the other officers are said to have a "place." Any thoughts on why this is? In many jurisdictions, it is said that the Tyler "is stationed" but I think this may be erroneous and that he actually has a place. My reasoning behind this belief is that both the Kansas and Colorado manual of movements make direct reference to the Tyler doing something or other, and then returning to his "place." Is my belief valid? How goes this in other jurisdictions?
> 
> Robert Herd commandeth me to investigate this, and I agreed to do so for a future article in _*Living Stones Magazine*_.  Names are changed to protect the innocent.


J.W. might've been the only one that did not move !!!


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## MarkR (Aug 30, 2014)

In most American Lodges, the square, level and plumb are considered immovable jewels because they always stay in the same location (east, west, south) and the rough ashlar, perfect ashlar, and trestle board are considered moveable jewels because they can be placed anywhere.  In England, it's the opposite, because the officers jewels move from brother to brother as officers change while the ashlars and trestle board stay in one place.


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## Bill Lins (Aug 30, 2014)

trysquare said:


> During the Opening? Not in my neighborhoods.


It is under GLoTX. In the opening of every Lodge, the Tiler is asked where his "place" is, and is then told to go to his "place".


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## Brother JC (Aug 30, 2014)

Interesting. I've never seen the Tyler inside the lodge room, or spoken to by anyone other than the JD.


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## Morris (Aug 30, 2014)

trysquare said:


> Interesting. I've never seen the Tyler inside the lodge room, or spoken to by anyone other than the JD.


During balloting perhaps? I can't remember the verbiage if any after te Tyler votes


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## Brother JC (Aug 30, 2014)

Ah, yes, he does get instructions when brought in to ballot, but (in NM) returns to the anteroom without further instruction.


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## Bill Lins (Aug 30, 2014)

trysquare said:


> Interesting. I've never seen the Tyler inside the lodge room, or spoken to by anyone other than the JD.


 In our opening of every Lodge, he is in the Lodgeroom. He is called to the altar, asked questions by the WM & answers them, and is then ordered without to perform his duties.


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## Pscyclepath (Aug 30, 2014)

Arkansas is different, in that the Tyler is always outside.  The Junior Deacon is sent to mak sure he's out there, and close the door.  The JD answers the questions otherwise asked of the Tyler.


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## MarkR (Aug 31, 2014)

Pscyclepath said:


> Arkansas is different, in that the Tyler is always outside.  The Junior Deacon is sent to mak sure he's out there, and close the door.  The JD answers the questions otherwise asked of the Tyler.


Same in Minnesota.


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## Willys (Aug 31, 2014)

Bill_Lins77488 said:


> In our opening of every Lodge, he is in the Lodgeroom. He is called to the altar, asked questions by the WM & answers them, and is then ordered without to perform his duties.


This is exactly my reference in posts #20 and 25, as practiced by the GLoTexas.

Before any Lodge is open there is no order other than social.  The WM gavels and initiates proceedings through which stations, places, and duties become identified, and others vouched.


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## dfreybur (Sep 1, 2014)

trysquare said:


> Interesting. I've never seen the Tyler inside the lodge room, or spoken to by anyone other than the JD.



That's how the opening happens in 2 of my 3 jurisdictions.  Texas is different (That could be a tautology, chuckle) in this detail.  The JD work got moved the the TL in this case.


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## Bloke (May 18, 2016)

MarkR said:


> In most American Lodges, the square, level and plumb are considered immovable jewels because they always stay in the same location (east, west, south) and the rough ashlar, perfect ashlar, and trestle board are considered moveable jewels because they can be placed anywhere.  In England, it's the opposite, because the officers jewels move from brother to brother as officers change while the ashlars and trestle board stay in one place.



Somewhere someone asked a question on this recently but I can't find it

Looking at the Baltimore Convention, 

Under the title "Immovable Jewels" Dr. Mackey's Lexicon says:

"According to the old system in England, the immovable jewels of the Lodge are the Rough Ashlar, Perfect Ashlar and Trestle Board; but in this Country, by the decision of the Baltimore Convention, in 1843, they are made to consist of the Square, Level and Plumb."

Source http://www.themasonictrowel.com/masonic_talk/stb/stbs/36-01.htm


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## MarkR (May 23, 2016)

Bloke said:


> Somewhere someone asked a question on this recently but I can't find it
> 
> Looking at the Baltimore Convention,
> 
> ...


Correct; and the square, level, and plumb are considered movable because they are passed from brother to brother when the offices change hands.


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## dfreybur (May 23, 2016)

Bloke said:


> Under the title "Immovable Jewels" Dr. Mackey's Lexicon says:
> 
> "According to the old system in England, the immovable jewels of the Lodge are the Rough Ashlar, Perfect Ashlar and Trestle Board; but in this Country, by the decision of the Baltimore Convention, in 1843, they are made to consist of the Square, Level and Plumb"



I find it odd that a convention that changed Stated meetings to the third degree would also make this particular change that is associated with a different degree.


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## Bill Lins (May 23, 2016)

dfreybur said:


> That's how the opening happens in 2 of my 3 jurisdictions.  Texas is different (That could be a tautology, chuckle) in this detail.  The JD work got moved the the TL in this case.


In other words, had you never come to Texas, it is unlikely that you would ever have seen a Lodge opened in the _correct_ manner.


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## Brother_Steve (Jun 1, 2016)

Think of the opening. The WM, SW and JW are stationed at cardinal directions. E, W and S

The deacons, secretary and treasurer are all referenced from a station.

The JD place in the lodge: <Referenced from a station>

The SD place in the lodge: <Referenced from a station>

The Secretary's place in the lodge: <Referenced from a station>

Then the WM asks the T about the JW station. However, it is interesting to note that no one is referenced to the right or left of that station. Sorry stewards....


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## Brother_Steve (Jun 1, 2016)

Brother JC said:


> During the Opening? Not in my neighborhoods.


interesting. We have the tiler enter the lodge and approach the East. He is asked where his place is. He answers <blah blah> He is then asked what his duty is. He mentions something about cowans and such. The WM then tells him to receive something and to be in discharge of his duty.


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## Bloke (Jun 1, 2016)

Brother_Steve said:


> Think of the opening..... .... However, it is interesting to note that no one is referenced to the right or left of that station. Sorry stewards....



The SD is "at or near the right of the WM" - all other officers are fixed.  The Tyler, Inner Guard, SD & JD all have a "situation in the lodge" while the JW SW and WM have a "place in the lodge". The sec nor any other office is mentioned. The JW reports on the "situation of the tyler"who remains outside..

All trivia I guess


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## Ripcord22A (Jun 1, 2016)

Interesting..in both my jurisdictions the WM asks the JD what his 1st job is. He amswers to make sure its tyled.

Hes then told to do that. Then he tells the WM that it is and the WM asks HOW? And the JD answers with some stuff about MM and a sword/implement of his office then the WM asks the JD what the T duties are and the JD answers with some stuff about cowans.....

I love hearing about the differences jurisdiction to jurisdiction...@Brother_Steve where u from?

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## Bloke (Jun 1, 2016)

jdmadsenCraterlake211 said:


> Interesting..in both my jurisdictions the WM asks the JD what his 1st job is. He amswers to make sure its tyled.



The JD carries all messages and communications of the WM from the SW to the JW.... the JW answers on behalf of the tyler that its the tylers job to see the lodge is properly tyled.

(edited to correct error in fact)

SD carries all messages and commands of the WM to the SW
JD carries all messages and communications of the WM from the Senior Warden to Junior Warden.


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## Ripcord22A (Jun 1, 2016)

Hmm thats interesting...here the SD carries messages the messages from the WM and the JD carries messages from the SW

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## Brother_Steve (Jun 1, 2016)

jdmadsenCraterlake211 said:


> Interesting..in both my jurisdictions the WM asks the JD what his 1st job is. He amswers to make sure its tyled.
> 
> Hes then told to do that. Then he tells the WM that it is and the WM asks HOW? And the JD answers with some stuff about MM and a sword/implement of his office then the WM asks the JD what the T duties are and the JD answers with some stuff about cowans.....
> 
> ...


New Jersey.

The JD is instructed to check the ... and, informs the WM and sits.

He is then ordered to request the tiler to enter the lodge. He approaches the east, does what I mentioned before and then exits. (Note: The JD tks h pl while this is all going on.)

Then we pick up where you are now when asked the first care of ... However, instead of repeating what has already been said by the tiler in lodge, the JD is directed to inform the tiler that the WM is about to open ... and direct him to tile accordingly.


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## Bloke (Jun 1, 2016)

jdmadsenCraterlake211 said:


> Hmm thats interesting...here the SD carries messages the messages from the WM and the JD carries messages from the SW
> 
> Sent from my LG-H811 using My Freemasonry Pro mobile app



Sorry Jdmadsen - I typed incorrectly.
SD carries all messages and commands of the WM to the SW
JD carries all messages and communications of the WM from the Senior Warden to Junior Warden.


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## Brother_Steve (Jun 2, 2016)

Bloke said:


> Sorry Jdmadsen - I typed incorrectly.
> SD carries all messages and commands of the WM to the SW
> JD carries all messages and communications of the WM from the Senior Warden to Junior Warden.


It's a good thing the WM, SW and JW speak directly to each other. Could you imagine if this was the literal case?

<WM> Bro. SD, Please inform the SW that ..... and he to the brethren that it may be ..... done.

<SD> Bro. SW, The Worship master has .... and he to the brethren that it may be.....

<SW> Bro JD, Inform the JW that ... blah blah blah

<JD> Bro JW, repeats...

<JW> Brethren, you have heard the order communicated by way of the west. Take ....


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## Bloke (Jun 2, 2016)

Brother_Steve said:


> It's a good thing the WM, SW and JW speak directly to each other. Could you imagine if this was the literal case?............. "Junior Master of Ceremonies".



Indeed ! Now... Junior Master of Ceremonies - what do you get up to in that job ?


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## Brother_Steve (Jun 2, 2016)

Bloke said:


> Indeed ! Now... Junior Master of Ceremonies - what do you get up to in that job ?


 The Jr. chair is all floor work and assisting the Sr MoC in the preparation of the candidate or brother for advancement.


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## Ripcord22A (Jun 2, 2016)

That is the job of the stewards in oregon and new mexico...we dont have a master of cermonies....jr or sr...we do have a Marshall

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## Brother_Steve (Jun 3, 2016)

jdmadsenCraterlake211 said:


> That is the job of the stewards in oregon and new mexico...we dont have a master of cermonies....jr or sr...we do have a Marshall
> 
> Sent from my LG-H811 using My Freemasonry Pro mobile app


We have a marshal also. The SD leads the column and the Marshal physically guides the candidate.


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## Ripcord22A (Jun 3, 2016)

In Oregon the sd conducts the candidate.  In NM the stewards do.  The only thing the marshall does here in NM is lead our procession in to lodge. In OR he leads the GL official visit procession

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## Bloke (Jun 3, 2016)

Brother_Steve said:


> The Jr. chair is all floor work and assisting the Sr MoC in the preparation of the candidate or brother for advancement.



Thanks, here, the Director of Ceremonies leads the deacons around the lodge and the deacons escort candidates. Stewards here step in if a deacon is absent, but mainly attend to matters in the festive board, but are more than just "masonic waiters" because they should have an organizing and meeting and greeting role.


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