# A.F.&.A.M. Vs. F.&A.M.



## LastKingSha174 (Nov 4, 2013)

Hey I am an E.A. out of a NY lodge going to get my F.C. on 11/13/13 and I was just wondering what the difference is between A.F.&.A.M. And F.&A.M. Thanks for any help on this in advance. By the way I'm F.&A.M.


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## MarkR (Nov 5, 2013)

LastKingSha174 said:


> Hey I am an E.A. out of a NY lodge going to get my F.C. on 11/13/13 and I was just wondering what the difference is between A.F.&.A.M. And F.&A.M. Thanks for any help on this in advance. By the way I'm F.&A.M.


For the most part, nothing in a modern context.  It is a relic of the 1751 creation of the Antient Grand Lodge, separate from the Premier Grand Lodge (Moderns.)  The 1813 unification into the United Grand Lodge of England ended the split.  Many State Grand Lodges were aligned with one or the other before the unification.  I don't know how Grand Lodges that formed after unification decided whether to be AF&AM or F&AM.  Then there are those that are neither, such as South Carolina which is AFM, and the Grand Lodge of the District of Columbia, which is FAAM.

PHA Grand Lodges are all F&AM as far as I know.  As I said at the beginning, the distinction is largely meaningless today.  It's just an historical artifact.


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## LastKingSha174 (Nov 5, 2013)

Thanks on the detailed answer. So I'm assuming FAAM is Free Accepted and Antient Mason or am I mistaken? Also I know it's just a tangent but do you know why South Carolina and D.C. Decided to be different with their abbreviations?


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## Brother JC (Nov 5, 2013)

The Master of the Lodge I am petitioning in CA has asked my help in preparing a presentation called "F&AM, AF&AM, the Same But Different. NM is AF&AM, CA is F&AM, but the ritual is similar, with subtle (yet striking) differences.


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## crono782 (Nov 5, 2013)

So my understanding is that F&AM were chartered by the Moderns and AF&AM were chartered by the Ancients and their ritual derived respectively. Granted the Moderns and Ancients had pretty similar ritual to begin with given that they were one body prior to the split. This would be the cause of a similar yet different ritual, correct?

My understanding of South Carolina's different AFM is thus: The Moderns chartered a lodge in SC, the Ancients chartered a lodge a year later. A merger was done and a compromise in the name was chosen, Ancient Free Masons
As for DC, I've never heard of a good reason for the difference other than they just picked it so as to be different. I'm sure there's a better explanation, but I've yet to find it in any histories of the GLoDC.


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## cacarter (Nov 5, 2013)

Every time I've encountered a Prince Hall Mason he asks me "3 letter or 4 letter?" or "3 legged or 4 legged?" I know of no real difference between AF&AM vs F&AM, but it seems the distinction is important in PHA, but I don't really know for sure.


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## LastKingSha174 (Nov 5, 2013)

So basically the language in the ritual differs a bit? Or is it certain action differ?  I'm not too sure about Prince Hall myself as I only know about 2 of them but I did hear them refer to 3 letter or 4 letter


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## dfreybur (Nov 5, 2013)

LastKingSha174 said:


> So basically the language in the ritual differs a bit? Or is it certain action differ?



Even that isn't consistent.  The ritual is a little bit different in every jurisdiction and the details of the differences are all over the map.  They don't much correlate to the different initials.

That they sprang from the Antients and Moderns would have made more sense but we can find examples from each lineage that don't match.  The different initials mean no more than what sounded cool at the time when each GL formed itself and decided.


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## LastKingSha174 (Nov 5, 2013)

Lol I wouldn't doubt it that's pretty funny


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## BryanMaloney (Nov 6, 2013)

crono782 said:


> So my understanding is that F&AM were chartered by the Moderns and AF&AM were chartered by the Ancients and their ritual derived respectively.



Once upon a time, maybe, but Texas (AF&AM) was chartered by Louisiana (F&AM).


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## Brother JC (Nov 6, 2013)

BryanMaloney said:


> Once upon a time, maybe, but Texas (AF&AM) was chartered by Louisiana (F&AM).


You find many of those switches as you move west. When TN split from NC they dropped the A, yet when MO formed from TN lodges, they took it back. NM formed from MO lodges and retained the A.


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## Bro. Stewart P.M. (Nov 6, 2013)

I get both!


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