# Interested in YR but NOT KT



## David Alexander (Jul 18, 2016)

I'm interested in doing the YR degrees but not in doing the Knights Templar.  Is this possible?  I'm in Houston, Texas, BTW.  The local YR web site seems to have bad contact links, and I'm at a loss as to how to proceed.


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## chrmc (Jul 18, 2016)

Yes you certainly can. The Houston York Rite meets at the Holland Lodge building on the 2nd Monday as far as I know. 
Check http://www.yorkritetexas.org/chapter/info-Chapter-list.php

You'll most likely get the option of taking all the degrees at an upcoming Festival or you can ask to have them done individually. I'd greatly suggest to take them as individual ones though it'll take longer.


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## dfreybur (Jul 18, 2016)

York Rite has separate bodies.  A fair number of Brothers join Chapter and Council but not Commandry.


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## Ripcord22A (Jul 18, 2016)

just curious, im not a YR mason BTW, but what makes you not want to join the commandry?


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## Winter (Jul 18, 2016)

A common reason that many Masons, including myself, might not want to join Commandary is they are not Christian and would not feel comfortable in a Christian appendant body. 

Transmitted via my R5 astromech.


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## Ripcord22A (Jul 18, 2016)

true, but I've been told that some commandrys only require you to declare that you would defend the Christian faith. 

I am a Christian and I have no problem defending anyone's religion.  Even in todays global climate I speak out in defense of Islam all the time


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## Winter (Jul 18, 2016)

True.  But it doesn't mean those members would be comfortable in a Christian masonic group or wearing Christian symbols on their uniform or regalia.  

Transmitted via my R5 astromech.


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## Ripcord22A (Jul 18, 2016)

Agreed.


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## Warrior1256 (Jul 19, 2016)

Here in Kentucky you can go as far as you want in the York Rite and stop where you are at any time.


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## Companion Joe (Jul 19, 2016)

You can always stop where you want; you just can't start where you want (i.e.: you couldn't skip the Chapter and go straight into the Council).


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## Warrior1256 (Jul 22, 2016)

Companion Joe said:


> You can always stop where you want; you just can't start where you want (i.e.: you couldn't skip the Chapter and go straight into the Council).


Right.


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## Brother JC (Jul 25, 2016)

I know a number of Companions who didn't take the Orders for religious reasons. And there is more to it than just "defend the Christian Faith."
I also know Companions who refuse to join solely because of the American KT uniform.


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## Warrior1256 (Jul 25, 2016)

Brother JC said:


> I also know Companions who refuse to join solely because of the American KT uniform.


Do you mean because of the cost involved?


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## Winter (Jul 25, 2016)

Warrior1256 said:


> Do you mean because of the cost involved?


I believe he means because of the Christian crosses on the hat, coat, sword, etc.  I know companions who will not join for that reason as well.  

Transmitted via my R5 astromech.


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## Warrior1256 (Jul 25, 2016)

Thanks for the clarification. I can certainly understand why a member of another faith would feel this way. I saw on a forum, I think it was this one, that a Jewish brother joined the Knights as he did not have to profess to the Christian faith, he only had to swear to defend the Christian faith. He said that he had no problem with this as he was sure that his Christian Brothers would also defend the Jewish faith.


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## Brother JC (Jul 25, 2016)

Winter said:


> I believe he means because of the Christian crosses on the hat, coat, sword, etc.  I know companions who will not join for that reason as well.


No, that's not it at all. They would be happy to west the sash and mantle, both of which have crosses and are styled in a more chivalric manner.


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## Brother JC (Jul 25, 2016)

Warrior1256 said:


> Do you mean because of the cost involved?


No, they find it ludicrous. It does nothing to convey the image of a "Knight Templar."


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## Winter (Jul 25, 2016)

Brother JC said:


> No, that's not it at all. They would be happy to west the sash and mantle, both of which have crosses and are styled in a more chivalric manner.


Oh, well disregard my comment then. But I do know Brothers who are not Christian and would not join so as to not wear the emblems of another faith. Even with the current liberal attitude towards the oath.  

Transmitted via my R5 astromech.


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## Dontrell Stroman (Jul 25, 2016)

Winter said:


> Oh, well disregard my comment then. But I do know Brothers who are not Christian and would not join so as to not wear the emblems of another faith. Even with the current liberal attitude towards the oath.
> 
> Transmitted via my R5 astromech.


You have peaked my interest by your comments. If you don't mind me asking brother, what is your religious belief ?


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## Ressam (Jul 26, 2016)

Warrior1256 said:


> Thanks for the clarification. I can certainly understand why a member of another faith would feel this way. I saw on a forum, I think it was this one, that a Jewish brother joined the Knights as he did not have to profess to the Christian faith, he only had to swear to defend the Christian faith. He said that he had no problem with this as he was sure that his Christian Brothers would also defend the Jewish faith.




Greetings, Mr.Warrior!
Could You, please, explain -- what do you mean by saying: "Defend Faith"?
Thank You!


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## Warrior1256 (Jul 26, 2016)

Brother JC said:


> No, they find it ludicrous. It does nothing to convey the image of a "Knight Templar."


I have to agree with you there.


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## Warrior1256 (Jul 26, 2016)

Brother JC said:


> No, that's not it at all. They would be happy to west the sash and mantle, both of which have crosses and are styled in a more chivalric manner.


Agreed! I would like to see a change to this.


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## Companion Joe (Jul 26, 2016)

The whole uniform dead horse debate is a danged if you do, danged if you don't. I've been on both sides of it.
For clarification, I am not a fan of the uniforms. Before I had one, I was all for changing. Now that I have a full Past Commander's uniform, no way in heck am I changing. You can't get new guys because they don't want to buy the uniform (mine was pieced together over time and through hand-me-downs). Old guys who have long since paid for their current uniform aren't going to buy something new.


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## Ripcord22A (Jul 26, 2016)

im not a YR Mason, but why not just get rid of it all together


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## Companion Joe (Jul 26, 2016)

Without the uniforms, swords, and military aspect, the Commandery would be just like every other appendant body.
Without the swords, you would have to rewrite every piece of ritual in the entire organization.


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## Ripcord22A (Jul 26, 2016)

Companion Joe said:


> Without the uniforms, swords, and military aspect, the Commandery would be just like every other appendant body.
> Without the swords, you would have to rewrite every piece of ritual in the entire organization.



Like I said im not a YR so I don't know how it works but you could keep the sword.....


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## Warrior1256 (Jul 26, 2016)

Companion Joe said:


> You can't get new guys because they don't want to buy the uniform (mine was pieced together over time and through hand-me-downs).


This is what I am doing now.


Companion Joe said:


> Old guys who have long since paid for their current uniform aren't going to buy something new.


No kidding! By the time that I get my entire uniform together I'll have a tidy financial investment in it.


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## Warrior1256 (Jul 26, 2016)

Companion Joe said:


> Without the uniforms, swords, and military aspect, the Commandery would be just like every other appendant body.
> Without the swords, you would have to rewrite every piece of ritual in the entire organization.


Exactly!


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## Brother JC (Jul 28, 2016)

It can, and eventually will, change. At least one US Grand Commandery has already done it.
The worst part of the hand-me-down method is that those uniforms look like hand-me-downs, which only makes the dead horse look worse.


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## Warrior1256 (Jul 31, 2016)

Brother JC said:


> It can, and eventually will, change. At least one US Grand Commandery has already done it.
> The worst part of the hand-me-down method is that those uniforms look like hand-me-downs, which only makes the dead horse look worse.


Agreed, that's why I am buying new stuff a little at a time.


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## Dontrell Stroman (Jul 31, 2016)

Sounds like an expensive organization to be a part of. I have no idea why these organizations cause so much money. That's another conversation in itself

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## dfreybur (Aug 1, 2016)

Travelling Man91 said:


> Sounds like an expensive organization to be a part of. I have no idea why these organizations cause so much money.



I take the opposite view.  Masonry has always had a reputation for being expensive.  When I was handed my dues bill the night I was Raised I looked at the number and asked "This is per month, right?".  Nope, dues per year.

Dues prices have not tracked with inflation but all other expenses have.  When dues were a week of wages for a skilled laborer, it was all expensive.

Costing money is an odd thing.  Shrine Brothers buy a new motorcycle to join a unit to be in parades to raise money for the hospitals.  The amount raised doesn't seem like it would be more than the amount spent on the new motorcycle.  And thus the Shrine is a party body with a side purpose of the hospitals.


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## Companion Joe (Aug 1, 2016)

I have always been of the mind that if the cost of an organization gives you reason to pause, you honestly don't need to join. Paying your household bills is far more important in the grand scheme of things.


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## Warrior1256 (Aug 3, 2016)

dfreybur said:


> I take the opposite view. Masonry has always had a reputation for being expensive. When I was handed my dues bill the night I was Raised I looked at the number and asked "This is per month, right?". Nope, dues per year.
> 
> Dues prices have not tracked with inflation but all other expenses have. When dues were a week of wages for a skilled laborer, it was all expensive.





Companion Joe said:


> I have always been of the mind that if the cost of an organization gives you reason to pause, you honestly don't need to join. Paying your household bills is far more important in the grand scheme of things.


I agree with both. Blue Lodge dues are very inexpensive as far as the ones that I know of. However, if these dues or those of an appendant body would cause even a slight financial burden then put off joining until you are in a better place income wise. Those that depend upon you come first.


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## Ripcord22A (Aug 3, 2016)

Warrior1256 said:


> I agree with both. Blue Lodge dues are very inexpensive as far as the ones that I know of. However, if these dues or those of an appendant body would cause even a slight financial burden then put off joining until you are in a better place income wise. Those that depend upon you come first.


Everyone knows that dues are a yearly thing.  I am by no means well off, I work for the govt after all..lol, all I do is set some aside and when dues come im good to go, Also tax time helps a lot!


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## Dontrell Stroman (Aug 4, 2016)

It's not so much a burden financially as I just can't fathom why it's so expensive. I've spoke with multiple brothers from different PH jurisdictions and it's been high across the board.

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## Companion Joe (Aug 5, 2016)

With the exception of a nice chapeau, it really doesn't have to be that expensive. 
You can buy a brand new complete uniform for $130. My jacket is a 50+ year old hand-me-down (free) that looks brand new because it has been taken care of. My pants came from the department store for $30. Any black shoes, black socks, white shirt, and black tie that a grown man should already own will do. So, for the uniform, the expense is minimal. With the exception of the jacket, all those other items can be worn as a regular part of your wardrobe.
You can get swords all across the board. Mine is a mass-produced new sword that I paid either $40 or $45 for. I know guys who have paid $700 for a really nice, custom made sword. I know people who have struck gold on eBay and bought really nice antique swords for $100. Again, it's up to the individual. Most Commanderies have a stock of swords, so some people never even buy their own.
Sword belts can be expensive ($150) or you can luck up and get a deal. I think mine was $75 brand new. Just like the swords, most Commanderies have a few extra for people to use. You really don't even have to buy a sword belt (at least in Tennessee) because a shoulder sling is authorized, and they cost about the same as a fancy cup of coffee.
The chapeaus are the biggie. You can go cheap or find an antique one, but it shows. If you wear an old, beat up chapeau, it looks really bad. The chapeaus are expensive because they are hand made one at a time. I started off with an old loaner from the Commandery for a few years and waited until I just before I was voted in as Commander and bit the bullet. I figured it was a once in a lifetime expense, and I wasn't going to go cheap. I think mine was $400, but I got what I consider the best. You can get new ones for less than half that, but the difference is appearance is night and day.
You don't even have to get everything all at once. Most people piece together a nice uniform over time. With the exception of a nice chapeau, I think the sticker shock of joining the Commandery is blown out of proportion.


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## chrmc (Aug 5, 2016)

A thing they do in many "Templar degrees / bodies" around the world is provide the clothing to the brethren. When you arrive there's a changing room where the necessary gear can be donned. Often they aren't as nice as if you had your own, but it usually works pretty well. Many of these places also wear hats, though not as fancy ones as the chapeau. 
Not sure if that has ever been considered in the US.


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## Glen Cook (Aug 5, 2016)

chrmc said:


> A thing they do in many "Templar degrees / bodies" around the world is provide the clothing to the brethren. When you arrive there's a changing room where the necessary gear can be donned. Often they aren't as nice as if you had your own, but it usually works pretty well. Many of these places also wear hats, though not as fancy ones as the chapeau.
> Not sure if that has ever been considered in the US.


Some with the mantle in the US do provide.  Providing the GEKT uniform would be somewhat difficult, due to sizing.


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## Warrior1256 (Aug 5, 2016)

Glen Cook said:


> Some with the mantle in the US do provide.  Providing the GEKT uniform would be somewhat difficult, due to sizing.


I am very new to the York Rite having been knighted in the KT this past December. So there are some jurisdictions that use a mantle and no other official uniform?


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## Glen Cook (Aug 5, 2016)

I'm unaware of any that are completely cap and mantle, but would be interested if there are


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## Brother JC (Aug 7, 2016)

I remember in a KT magazine they had the pictures of all the Grand Commenders and at least one was wearing the cap and mantle. Now I wish I'd saved them...


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## J.D. (Sep 4, 2016)

Winter said:


> True.  But it doesn't mean those members would be comfortable in a Christian masonic group or wearing Christian symbols on their uniform or regalia.
> 
> Transmitted via my R5 astromech.



KT is a cross and crown. Take that how you want to.


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## Warrior1256 (Sep 4, 2016)

J.D. said:


> KT is a cross and crown. Take that how you want to.


Right, the meaning of which is why I took the obligations. However, for the same reason it's not everyone's cup of tea.


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