# At what point?



## dew_time (May 15, 2013)

When are you an official mason? I've heard it's after you become master that you are a brother but others say its after your voted in. 

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## JJones (May 15, 2013)

I'd say it's the moment you take on the EA obligation.

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## jwhoff (May 15, 2013)

I've often pondered this very question.  But, how could a man call himself a mason until after he's taken, understood, and began living by the full obligations?


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## dew_time (May 15, 2013)

jwhoff said:


> I've often pondered this very question.  But, how could a man call himself a mason until after he's taken, understood, and began living by the full obligations?



To me your statement says your not a mason until you've reached the 3Â° or maybe even higher degrees.

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## JJones (May 15, 2013)

I'll elaborate now that I don't think I'm going to get blown away by a tornado. 



> To me your statement says your not a mason until you've reached the 3Â° or maybe even higher degrees.



You're made a mason when you take the EA obligation.  Those of us who remember the catechism should recall what was done with us at the altar and what was said to us in the NE corner.



> I've often pondered this very question. But, how could a man call himself a mason until after he's taken, understood, and began living by the full obligations?



It's pretty black and white, at least in my mind.  You're either a mason or you're not.  The masonic teachings are to be implemented in our lives and this should, in theory, make us more independent, reliable, well rounded, and charitable men.  We are given more responsibilities as we develop but I'm not convinced that more responsibilities more one more or less of a mason.

Different degrees are, or should be, representative of the personal development masonry should instigate in us.

Just my .02 though, as always. :001_tongue:


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## Brother Anthony (May 15, 2013)

I'm an entered apprentice and consider myself and have been told I'm a Freemason. 


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## dew_time (May 16, 2013)

Glad the tornado didn't get you.. I didn't see OZ on the list of recognized lodges 

Thank you all for the information!!

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## MarkR (May 16, 2013)

You are a Mason when you take your 1Â° obligation.  However, since you're an apprentice, you're not able to travel and work as such without the supervision of a Master Mason. That's why you can't visit another Lodge without a MM who saw you initiated who can vouch for you, and why you shouldn't wear Masonic jewelry yet.  But once you are an EA, you are called "brother" and you are a Mason.


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## widows son (May 16, 2013)

In Canada, since work is done in the first degree, an OB EA can sit in the lodge. He is also a dues paying member at this point and is very much a Mason. I'm not sure on the traveling aspect, I didn't travel on my own when I was an EA.


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## CStevenson (May 16, 2013)

From what I have heard, different countries/regions will have different opinions.  In Texas, from the first degree on you are a Mason.  However, as a EA, you just have recieved only a part of the benefits of a MM.  Is an EA a Mason, in Texas, yes.  Will he recieve further benefits of being a Mason as he moves up throught the degrees, again yes.


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## Pscyclepath (May 16, 2013)

You are a Mason from the point when you complete the EA obligation.  You might have noticed a change in what you were called from that moment forward.  The rest of it, from Fellowcraft to master mason and beyond, to York rite, Scottish Rite, or whatever, is simply a never-ending quest for more light and understanding thereof.


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## RWApplebaum (May 16, 2013)

You are considered a brother or mason after you receive the grip and word of EA. after that point you can prove yourself a mason.


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## crono782 (May 16, 2013)

Following the obligation. The EA catechism makes plain when, where, and what made you a mason. 


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## dew_time (May 16, 2013)

crono782 said:


> Following the obligation. The EA catechism makes plain when, where, and what made you a mason.
> 
> 
> Freemason Connect Mobile





RWApplebaum said:


> You are considered a brother or mason after you receive the grip and word of EA. after that point you can prove yourself a mason.
> 
> 
> Freemason Connect Mobile



I am looking forward to fully understanding what this all means!! Right now it all seems like a riddle but I'm time will make it clear too me.

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## j_gimpy (May 17, 2013)

Haha i know exactly how you feel, Dew. I'm waiting on my interview to be scheduled! 


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## Roy Vance (May 18, 2013)

MarkR said:


> You are a Mason when you take your 1Â° obligation. However, since you're an apprentice, you're not able to travel and work as such without the supervision of a Master Mason. That's why you can't visit another Lodge without a MM who saw you initiated who can vouch for you, and why you shouldn't wear Masonic jewelry yet. But once you are an EA, you are called "brother" and you are a Mason.



Well said, Brother Mark. My mentor/instructor made fairly clear to me after just a few days of instruction, that, as an Entered Apprentice, there were certain things that I was not yet entitled to know, therefore, I could not visit another lodge unless I was in the company of a Master Mason and he was certain that the lodge would be opened in the first degree. I was also taught the Tiler's Oath after about two weeks of instruction. It took about another week to figure out why, because he never told me what it was for. Go figure!


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## tommason (May 18, 2013)

My great grandfather was a master mason at the Scottish lodge over 100 years ago I want to join and carry on his legacy how do I go about this as none of my remaining family are involved in any of the mason lodges ?? 


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## Bro_Carl (May 18, 2013)

Look online to find the grand lodge in your state and the site will usually list the local lodges in your area with either a phone number or email address, or you can stop by your local lodge before the next meeting, meet the brothers and inquire about joining


Br Carl
Morning Star #47
Seymour, CT


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## tommason (May 18, 2013)

Thanks brother Carl much appreciated 


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## AnthonyPomilia357 (May 18, 2013)

You become a brother when you are brought to the light of the Entered Apprentice degree (1Â°). You are an official Freemason when you receive the Sublime Degree of a Master Mason (3Â°).

Master Mason from Metamora/Hadley Lodge No. 210 of the GL of MI


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## jwhoff (May 19, 2013)

dew_time said:


> To me your statement says your not a mason until you've reached the 3Â° or maybe even higher degrees.
> 
> Freemason Connect Mobile



You are correct brother.  I don't consider a man a mason until he is raised, understands, and begins living by the obligations he has taken. "Higher" degrees, or to be precise those leading to a more learned mason do not enter into this equation.  

I do not think a man who shows up for one degree, possibly pursues it for a time, and does not complete his third degree to be a mason.

You are very correct in your synopsizes.


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## crono782 (May 19, 2013)

While I agree w/ that to an extent. Why do we call it "master mason" as in someone who has mastered being a mason? Why not just call that "mason". The ea should then be called "pre-mason" and the fc called "almost mason". Should the ea not be called brother?


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## jwhoff (May 19, 2013)

Neither the EA nor the FC owe dues to the lodge.  Neither have the ability to vote.  They are not full members of the lodge.  They are not aware of all the obligations of a mason.  They are not prepared to assume their position in the brotherhood.  Like the operatives, they cannot build a strong edifice on their own knowledge.

MOPB.


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## AnthonyPomilia357 (May 19, 2013)

jwhoff said:


> Neither the EA nor the FC owe dues to the lodge.  Neither have the ability to vote.  They are not full members of the lodge.  They are not aware of all the obligations of a mason.  They are not prepared to assume their position in the brotherhood.  Like the operatives, they cannot build a strong edifice on their own knowledge.
> 
> MOPB.



Well said, brother!

Master Mason from Metamora/Hadley Lodge No. 210 of the GL of MI


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## jwhoff (May 19, 2013)

That said Brother Anthony, I'll be there tomorrow night for three hours teaching EAs and FCs how to get down the road to that sublime degree.  

Our lodge has been blessed with 13 new master masons raised since 10-NOV-12.  We're on a roll and are going to get these next seven or eight through as well.  It's like I imagine it to be when a new lodge comes on board.  

There are serious men out there yearning for that missing part of their existence.  Those of us who have made the journey owe it to them to see that they get that enlightenment.  I, for one, am hell-bent on making sure that happens.

Let's all work this thing together and in the end, make a better world of it for us all.

I'll never lose this optimism!  As long as there's one yearning sole out there and one man still left out there to provide the light we MY DEAR BRETHREN are still in business and still RELEVANT to the hopes of mankind.


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## dew_time (May 19, 2013)

jwhoff said:


> There are serious men out there yearning for that missing part of their existence.  Those of us who have made the journey owe it to them to see that they get that enlightenment.  I, for one, am hell-bent on making sure that happens.



Thank you... this particular statement sums up how I feel. Somethig is missing from my life.  I work, I have kids, a wife, a truck or a house in the country but I don't have enlightment and the brotherhood that the freemasons of the world love so much.

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## promason (May 19, 2013)

interesting!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!definitely!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!definitely!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## promason (May 19, 2013)

sincerely believe great spirit which founded Masonry lies in each of us!just have to search and find!


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## stuntman98 (May 20, 2013)

You are a mason after your initial obligation has been taken.

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## dfreybur (May 20, 2013)

jwhoff said:


> Neither the EA nor the FC owe dues to the lodge.  Neither have the ability to vote.  They are not full members of the lodge.



Just checking - Are you aware that it is the worldwide standard that EAs owe dues, have a vote and are full members of their lodges?  Everywhere outside of the US (or maybe US and Canada) follows this worldwide standard.

Across the US GLs are moving back towards the worldwide standard in small steps.  Almost all US GLs once again admit EAs and FCs to our business meetings.  Some US GLs have resumed changing EAs and FCs dues.

The time will come when it's time to move on to the next step and charge dues.  Looking at my wrist watch, the year is now different from the year EAs and FCs were allowed into our Stated meetings.  To me it's time.  When will it be time for you?  Be sure to answer in terms of the world wide standard not in terms of "we've always done it that way" because that's the wrong "we".  The US made that change in the 1840s when the anti-Masonic movement and political party were in full swing.  The reasons we diverged from the worldwide standard are long gone and long obsolete.

Hey look!  A soap box appeared under my feet ...  Chortle.


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## dew_time (May 20, 2013)

dfreybur said:


> Just checking - Are you aware that it is the worldwide standard that EAs owe dues, have a vote and are full members of their lodges?  Everywhere outside of the US (or maybe US and Canada) follows this worldwide standard.
> 
> Across the US GLs are moving back towards the worldwide standard in small steps.  Almost all US GLs once again admit EAs and FCs to our business meetings.  Some US GLs have resumed changing EAs and FCs dues.
> 
> ...



The fee I paid included cost for my degrees and my dues for 1 year.

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## James F Jackson (May 20, 2013)

Do all lodges mandaite dues? Since when did becomming a Mason turn into a Corporate Venture , this concerns me. 

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## jaanthony (May 20, 2013)

Dues are used to pay for expenditures of the lodge and also some of the dues go to Grand Lodge for operations.  Electric bills etc. must be paid to keep the doors open.  It's charitable funds must also be maintained. Any Fraternally organization must be funded somehow. 

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## James F Jackson (May 20, 2013)

Thank you

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## crono782 (May 20, 2013)

James F Jackson said:


> Do all lodges mandaite dues? Since when did becomming a Mason turn into a Corporate Venture , this concerns me.



How do you suppose the lodges keep the lights on and the toilets flushing, hah?


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## dew_time (May 20, 2013)

crono782 said:


> How do you suppose the lodges keep the lights on and the toilets flushing, hah?



Mice on wheels wired up to generators that charge batteries so that when the switch is flipped the light comes on 

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## James F Jackson (May 20, 2013)

dew_time said:


> Mice on wheels wired up to generators that charge batteries so that when the switch is flipped the light comes on
> 
> Sent from my LG-VM696 using Freemasonry mobile app



Wow u got some growing up to do making jokes like that, brothers like you stop people from wanting to join the masonic order, stand firm and re-evaluate you staments . I am so disappointed in you for your failed attempt at trying to make me look stupid when its  brothers like you who will continue tarnish the masonic order shame on you, next time lift me up help me make my pillars firm instead of  making inmature jokes, may the lord give you wisdom to bite your tounge next time you look silly it may be a joke to you, but for me my brother i will never faulter and ridicule one who is seeking light.....

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## JJones (May 20, 2013)

Well Freemasonry is one of the oldest and most noble organizations still in existence (IMO) so I really don't think anyone needs to look at is like it's a scam to get their money (assuming the lodge you join is regular).

I didn't find anything about dew_time's comment to be overtly offensive.  If a man wears his heart on his sleeve so much that an small joke such as that offends him then he might have a hard time getting along with the brethren in any lodge...or any fraternity for that matter.


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## dew_time (May 20, 2013)

That was a little harsh...

First off I quoted and jested a simple question posted by crono. There was no intention to make a fool of anyone.

Second, I'm not the one that questioned the motives of the Masons collecting dues... You did sir. 

If, as a Mason, I raised such a question as you did.. I would look deep inside myself and question whether I truely am in the right place. I would definately talk to my WM and most certainly not.post such doughts in a public forum sucu as this.

I know my place in life.. I don't need to question whether my dues will be put to good use or just for capital gain by some corp. entity as you described. And the next time you feel the need to insult someone... do it in private because you sir are the one that gave just made Masonry look bad.

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## James F Jackson (May 20, 2013)

I do applogise for my failed judgement towards you i am the one who rushed to judgment i appologize


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## dew_time (May 20, 2013)

This post was removed by me..


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## James F Jackson (May 20, 2013)

No need to do that i will remove myself since i made the mistake
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## dfreybur (May 20, 2013)

James F Jackson said:


> Do all lodges mandaite dues?



Of course.  All organizations that have assets have bills.  The bills must be paid.



> Since when did becomming a Mason turn into a Corporate Venture , this concerns me.



Vast numbers of non-profit organizations are registered as non-profit corporations.  Why would you be concerned about so mundane a situation?

Your profile says you're not a Mason.  Are you here looking for reasons to not become a Mason?  Anti-Masons are easily found and their material shows who they are at a glance.  Read a few pages of their material then ask yourself if you want to be among such people.


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## dew_time (May 20, 2013)

JJones said:


> Well Freemasonry is one of the oldest and most noble organizations still in existence (IMO) so I really don't think anyone needs to look at is like it's a scam to get their money (assuming the lodge you join is regular).
> 
> I didn't find anything about dew_time's comment to be overtly offensive.  If a man wears his heart on his sleeve so much that an small joke such as that offends him then he might have a hard time getting along with the brethren in any lodge...or any fraternity for that matter.



Thank you... I didn't realize that was a non mason and I was a little offended by his lashing out at suh a small joke. I would hope that not all brother are wound so tight.

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## James F Jackson (May 20, 2013)

I am not an EA or FC 


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## James F Jackson (May 20, 2013)

Once again i appologize sir

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## dew_time (May 20, 2013)

James F Jackson said:


> Once again i appologize sir
> 
> Freemason Connect Mobile



No harm done. My happiness and well being will never be in the hands a a single man behind a keyboard whom I don't even know. 

I really hope you find the enlightment and knowledge you seek whether it be in freemasonry or anything you pursue.

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## James F Jackson (May 20, 2013)

Thank you i look forward to meeting you one day and extending my hand to you

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## dew_time (May 20, 2013)

James F Jackson said:


> Thank you i look forward to meeting you one day and extending my hand to you
> 
> Freemason Connect Mobile



Same to you. Are you planning to petition a lodge?

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## James F Jackson (May 20, 2013)

Yes i am 

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## dew_time (May 20, 2013)

James F Jackson said:


> Yes i am
> 
> Freemason Connect Mobile



Have been to the lodge you plan to petition? Please don't take my questions as an investigation. I am trying to mend our fence and get to know you better 

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## James F Jackson (May 20, 2013)

Will visit next week just found one

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## dew_time (May 20, 2013)

That will be good... I've meet a lot of great people at the public social functions.

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## James F Jackson (May 20, 2013)

I have been surrounded by masons my whole life and never knew until recently when a good freind was  towards the end of his journey when he told me he was a mason and he wanted me to visit him more often prior to his passing on. Through my visits with him he opened my eyes in regards to masonry, and gave insight on various aspects of life. Before his passing he gave me his ring and asked me if i ever became a mason would i wear it in his honour, i told i would if i ever took that jounrney. So now years later after studying  masonic history i feel i am know ready to stand on the square.

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## dew_time (May 20, 2013)

James F Jackson said:


> I have been surrounded by masons my whole life and never knew until recently when a good freind was  towards the end of his journey when he told me he was a mason and he wanted me to visit him more often prior to his passing on. Through my visits with him he opened my eyes in regards to masonry, and gave insight on various aspects of life. Before his passing he gave me his ring and asked me if i ever became a mason would i wear it in his honour, i told i would if i ever took that jounrney. So now years later after studying  masonic history i feel i am know ready to stand on the square.
> 
> Freemason Connect Mobile



That's a great story.

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## James F Jackson (May 20, 2013)

Just lucky to have been in his presence i stop questioning why yrs ago just gonna do my part the best way i can now


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## streeter (May 21, 2013)

CStevenson said:


> From what I have heard, different countries/regions will have different opinions.  In Texas, from the first degree on you are a Mason.  However, as a EA, you just have recieved only a part of the benefits of a MM.  Is an EA a Mason, in Texas, yes.  Will he recieve further benefits of being a Mason as he moves up throught the degrees, again yes.


hello,  in Tennessee it is an obligation - does not say which one - AND HAVING BEEN RAISED....in Massachusetts its first degree - but not a 'full' member until you have signed the bylaws... in England they still don't know!!....Robert Streeter manor royal 8296 England king 461 Tennessee tyrian massachcusetts


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## david j zometa (May 21, 2013)

Even though I am not a mason, I admire all of you with great compassion . The reason being is because of what you as people represent , brotherhood , loyalty ,love , honestly and respect  something I have always admire in any one because I to share these feelings and opinions and any one that thinks as I do is a brother of mine and has my respect. Bless you all, family ,friends and foes. 


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## dfreybur (May 21, 2013)

James F Jackson said:


> So now years later after studying  masonic history i feel i am know ready to stand on the square.



I sigh for the lost years of opportunity.  The best way to stand on the square to me was to go to lodge and try my best to emulate the men around me who were already doing that.

In our early years in lodge our elders are our mentors.  We work to be like them.  In our late years in lodge our youngsters are our charges.  We work to be worthy of them.  Nearing the 20th anniversary of my raising I am now in the middle between both.  I try to be that perfect ashlar by working at improving in some way each year.

The circle, the square, the triangle.  We stand on the square.  We stand in a circle. The triangle that supervises us is actually a square with one point infinitely far out - The points of the triangle surround us and point us in that direction.  Look to the East my brothers but we all end up working towards the North.


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## James F Jackson (May 21, 2013)

Is there light in the north?


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## bupton52 (May 21, 2013)

James F Jackson said:


> Is there light in the north?
> 
> 
> color=#B22222]Freemason Connect Mobile[/color]



Thats a question that you may want to ask the brothers in your lodge. 

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## dew_time (May 21, 2013)

James F Jackson said:


> Is there light in the north?
> 
> 
> color=#B22222]Freemason Connect Mobile[/color]



Masons.. correct.me if I am wrong please. I believe the Brethren are searching for enlightment in the masonic craft which is different than light.

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## James F Jackson (May 21, 2013)

When time is right i will thank you

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## bupton52 (May 21, 2013)

I think I'm a tad bit confused at what is being asked now. 

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## James F Jackson (May 21, 2013)

Sir this doubt to shall pass as it did in the begining and you have been rejuvinated grab that trowel and continue your journey 

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## dew_time (May 21, 2013)

bupton52 said:


> I think I'm a tad bit confused at what is being asked now.
> 
> Freemason Connect Mobile



I didn't ask anything. My friend James asked about light in the north. I mentioned that I don't think masons are seeking light as much as enlightment but I could be wrong.

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## James F Jackson (May 21, 2013)

Glad to hear the fence is mended

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## James F Jackson (May 21, 2013)

You answered my question thank you

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## dew_time (May 21, 2013)

James F Jackson said:


> Glad to hear the fence is mended
> 
> Freemason Connect Mobile



It was mended yesterday as I recall. 

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## dew_time (May 21, 2013)

thebackman said:


> Wow! Grammatically false sentences are found a lot.



Didn't you say in other post that it was wrong to judge or say people are wrong? So when you stated this you were only reffering to your own feeling and how someone offended you? But should you also apply that same thing to other people here? 
Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. You have written some slightly strange things and we have givin you respect and been polite.. I think we deserve the same treatment. We are humans and we are not perfect.. yourself included. 
As far as grammatical errors goes.. most of us are typing with our thumbs on our "smartphones". Some of us are looking at clocks that say its 12am... errors happen.

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## James F Jackson (May 22, 2013)

Ok gentleman play nice

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## dew_time (May 22, 2013)

James F Jackson said:


> Ok gentleman play nice
> 
> Freemason Connect Mobile



I guess I could have said that instead of getting on soap box, lol

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## dfreybur (May 22, 2013)

dew_time said:


> I believe the Brethren are searching for enlightment in the masonic craft which is different than light.



Exactly.  This makes it very hard to answer the question "Is there light in the north?"  At some points light is physical illumination by the Sun.  At other points light is knowledge or wisdom.  Darkness could be either the unknown or the unknowable.  Depending on approach and layer of symbolism the answers yes and no both work.


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## James F Jackson (May 22, 2013)

Interesting thank you

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## jwhoff (May 25, 2013)

dfreybur said:


> Just checking - Are you aware that it is the worldwide standard that EAs owe dues, have a vote and are full members of their lodges?  Everywhere outside of the US (or maybe US and Canada) follows this worldwide standard.
> 
> Across the US GLs are moving back towards the worldwide standard in small steps.  Almost all US GLs once again admit EAs and FCs to our business meetings.  Some US GLs have resumed changing EAs and FCs dues.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the information brother.  Didn't know that to be the case.  Still the full obligations are more necessary to my thinking.  But this is all a personal belief.  I have no strong objection to your point of view.


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## Bill Lins (May 25, 2013)

roy.vance said:


> I was also taught the Tiler's Oath after about two weeks of instruction.



You were taught the Tiler's Oath while still an EA?


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## stuntman98 (May 25, 2013)

Seriously

PM Pride of Walton #110
SW Sons of Light #77
Spain Military Consistory Orient of Europe
Grand Technician WFOT


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## Blake Bowden (May 26, 2013)

EA you're a Mason, just shouldn't wear the bling yet.


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## stuntman98 (May 26, 2013)

I agree

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SW Sons of Light #77
Spain Military Consistory Orient of Europe
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## dew_time (May 26, 2013)

Blake Bowden said:


> EA you're a Mason, just shouldn't wear the bling yet.



As I understand it no one who isn't a MM can't wear the bling as the di.t understand the symbolism of it and don't know how to respond if they are test by other MM's. Is this correct?

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## Bro. Vincent (May 26, 2013)

dew_time said:


> As I understand it no one who isn't a MM can't wear the bling as the di.t understand the symbolism of it and don't know how to respond if they are test by other MM's. Is this correct?
> 
> Freemason Connect Mobile


Bingo!




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## Roy Vance (May 26, 2013)

Bill_Lins77488 said:


> You were taught the Tiler's Oath while still an EA?



Yes sir, I was. I just did not understand what it was all about at the time. I was turning in my EA proficiency about a week later and overheard the SD examining a visitor and the light bulb lit up. I suppose I was tampering with that untempered mortar, but, I was not being an intentional eavesdropper, I was just passing the prep room on my way back to the lodgeroom from the men's room when I heard a part of it. I just kept walking, thinking, 'This is not for me to know, yet'. LOL.


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## jwhoff (May 26, 2013)

Me thinks you were *right* my good brother.

:38:


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