# Does Freemasonry accept Catholics?



## Blake Bowden (Sep 18, 2013)

There is nothing prohibiting a Catholic from petitioning, much less join Freemasonry.


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## Plustax (Sep 18, 2013)

It's only vce versa.  one would think the Pope would change this.


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## Brother JC (Sep 19, 2013)

Many of my Brethren are Catholics, including one of our most prolific Ritualists.


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## RedTemplar (Sep 19, 2013)

They are Catholics in my Lodge.


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## NativeSteel (Sep 29, 2013)

Freemason accept all good men who believe in a higher power.

" SEMPER ANTICUS "


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## NativeSteel (Sep 29, 2013)

nativesteel said:


> freemasonry accepts all good men who believe in a higher power.
> 
> " semper anticus "





" semper anticus "


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## ess1113 (Oct 28, 2013)

I truly wish there was some way to discretely compile statistics on Catholics in Freemasonry.
After my condemnation (I am Catholic and a Freemason), my parish priest asked me for the names of other Catholics in my lodge.
Of course, I firmly refused, but it would be an interesting statistic to just throw back at them.

We did reach a stalemate between the priest and me.  I told him I would be happy to limit my Masonic activity when he refunded the last 11 years of my Church donations.  I am still waiting for that check, meanwhile I attend every Masonic activity that I can fit into my schedule.


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## dfreybur (Oct 29, 2013)

ess1113 said:


> I truly wish there was some way to discretely compile statistics on Catholics in Freemasonry.



I'm glad there is not.  It's an example of Freemasonry living up to our religious freedom and of the landmark to not bring up sectarian religion in lodge.

We ask a question on the petition if you believe in the existence of a supreme being.  In the investigation process we ask your recommenders if you have a reputation for honesty (your lodge does teach this as part of the process, right, hint, hint).  then we take you at your word and the topic is completed.

Having some preacher ask for a membership list with the potential of hassling members is exactly why we keep such data private.  Being loud and proud is a choice many of us make but it is a personal choice.


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## bezobrazan (Oct 29, 2013)

I was raised in a staunch Catholic family. They would all freak if they found out I was a mason. I'm pretty private about my involvement, I have always been about all my ventures. I'm not one to stand on a soap box or put up a billboard. After joining masonry my first thought was, "what is all the fear & fuss about"?


My Freemasonry


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## Rod_Duran (Mar 25, 2014)

My WM is a devout Catholic.


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## brother josh (Mar 25, 2014)

Indeed we do


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## nixxon2000 (Mar 25, 2014)

I am catholic and my church would freak out if they knew. Not that I really care but they'd come after my wife and that I care about. 

Seems to me that masonic and catholic teaching have similarities. You would figure that anything that makes a person better the church would like. 

I know I go to church more now than I did before I was a mason. Part of me really hates how they discriminate. 


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## vangoedenaam (Mar 26, 2014)

The church doesnt like ppl to think freely... 


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## Chromedome37 (Mar 29, 2014)

Mo synd Lutherins are just strict out here in the midwest. 

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## dfreybur (Mar 31, 2014)

Chromedome37 said:


> Mo synd Lutherins are just strict out here in the midwest.



It would seem there are two branches of Missouri Synod Lutherans.  One has tons of Masons including in their clergy.  One objects to Masonry.  Why the two branches have come to this is something I've asked brothers who have mentioned attending events at those churches.  It seems to be beyond their understanding.  Of course like me they are Masons so they are biased on the topic of masonry.


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## Chromedome37 (Mar 31, 2014)

Interesting thanks. I had always been told no. But good to know that isnt always the case.

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## Brother_Steve (Apr 4, 2014)

Chromedome37 said:


> Interesting thanks. I had always been told no. But good to know that isnt always the case.
> 
> Sent From My Freemasonry Pro App


You can do whatever you want in life.

However, the caveat is not discussing your membership openly at church or with those who would otherwise make it an issue.

It kind of makes volunteer work at the Lent Fish Fry or sausage and pepper stand hard though.

"Hey Chrome, I didn't know you were a mason." "Wait till Father John hears about this one."


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## Chromedome37 (Apr 4, 2014)

Who is father John? Is here in Nebraska?

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## Chromedome37 (Apr 4, 2014)

I make the point because out of courtesy I asked my father in law before joining the Masons it made him uncomfortable but because of what the Shriners have done for our daughter he could understand my reasoning behind it and accepted it it was simply a courtesy that I chose to afford him as he would have afforded me if something that affected me came up being Missouri Synod Lutheran it could have been uncomfortable for him I'm Methodist so it doesn't matter much to me. As you said brother Steve being both free and over 21 a man can choose to do as he pleases I'm proud to be able to Mason and Shriner

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## afd004 (May 15, 2014)

I was confirmed Wisconsin Synod Lutheran, and they are very anti-Mason, to the point of booting out Masons who do not "repent." Or maybe it was just my minister who was particularly rabid...  I'm currently happy as an ELCA Lutheran and a Mason, and my current church couldn't care less about it.  I believe we should make our own decisions and place our faith in Deity, not in the churches of man.


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## Flatworlder (Jul 1, 2014)

If we were to read history.. it might shine light on this topic. I'm still trying to figure it all out. Anyone care to share?


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## ess1113 (Jul 1, 2014)

Flatworlder, 
I admit that it can be confusing and often times it is difficult to understand.  While I am not the subject matter expert on this topic I can speak with some knowledge.
Yes.  Freemasonry takes Catholics. A Roman Catholic possesses all the requirements for membership in a Masonic lodge.  A belief in a divine being is what I am referring to. 

The bigger issue is how the Roman Catholic Church handles Masonic members.
As a life long Catholic and being a dedicated member of the Masonic lodge, I have experienced a myriad of reactions ranging from: what is Freemasonry, to the popular accusation about worshiping Lucifer.  I have had anonymous notes on my windshield and I have been approached as a heretic.  The reactions are totally varied depending on how indoctrinated they are in their beliefs.

As a Roman Catholic that is very strongly in the Church, I proudly wear a Masonic ring to receive Holy Communion, and at times I even wear a Masonic belt buckle.  I am comfortable with both being strong in my life and they are not in opposition to each other.  Each has made me stronger in the other whether by design or default.

Hope that meandering answer helps somewhat.


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## Flatworlder (Jul 1, 2014)

ess1113 said:


> Flatworlder,
> I admit that it can be confusing and often times it is difficult to understand.  While I am not the subject matter expert on this topic I can speak with some knowledge.
> Yes.  Freemasonry takes Catholics. A Roman Catholic possesses all the requirements for membership in a Masonic lodge.  A belief in a divine being is what I am referring to.
> 
> ...


Thank you for your posting. In no way was I questioning your previous posting. I am myself a Roman Catholic, but I have pulled away from attending church more as an adult. My children attend a Catholic Private school. Im jaded to what happened to a fellow brother when he decided to take the steps to become a Roman Catholic. They noticed his Masonic ring and kicked him out of the classes. The way to which it was done was very uncivilized.. I was embarrassed but the whole ordeal.


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## pointwithinacircle2 (Jul 1, 2014)

Flatworlder said:


> If we were to read history.. it might shine light on this topic. I'm still trying to figure it all out. Anyone care to share?



"In eminenti apostolatus specula was a Papal Bullissued by Pope Clement XII on 28 April 1738, banning Catholics from becoming Freemasons."  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_Eminenti_Apostolatus

"The last known heretic executed by sentence of the Roman Catholic Church was Spanish schoolmaster Cayetano Ripoll in 1826."  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heresy

So if I do the math right, the Catholic church continued to execute people for their religious beliefs for another 88 years after they decided that Freemasons are bad people.  They sure took the high ground on that one.


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## ess1113 (Jul 1, 2014)

I has a very similar experience. 
I had a brother from lodge ask me about becoming Catholic.  He attended the RCIA classes as much as he could, he was a police officer at the time.
When they found out that I was his sponsor they stopped all his sacraments until they received guidance.  It was blatantly stated that since I was his sponsor, and I was a Mason then he could find a new sponsor.  To his credit, he persisted that I was his sponsor even after I volunteered to step away.  He received his sacraments one Thursday evening with just me, him, and two of his friends present.  
I was proud of him as a Mason and I was proud of him as a Catholic.


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## dfreybur (Jul 2, 2014)

Flatworlder said:


> If we were to read history.. it might shine light on this topic. I'm still trying to figure it all out. Anyone care to share?



Maybe it's confusing because some people think it takes two to fight.  Not so.  One person can attack and it's a fight no matter what the attacked person thinks about the situation.  At one point the Catholic Church attacked Masonry a long time ago, very one directional.  While it is natural that some Masons of that era would have rejected Catholics because of the attack it was not a matter of any Masonic principles.

Maybe it's confusing because some people think once a fight always a fight.  Not so.  Catholics are not banned because of some now obsolete encyclical.  But some clergy don't learn much history.

Both issues are conflated with issues of authority taught by the Church and of free thought taught by Masonry.


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## Flatworlder (Jul 2, 2014)

Free thought from Freemasonry is what drew me to it..


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## Levelhead (Jul 3, 2014)

Im catholic. And act as a catholic should as a mason. Seriously the catholic church dont pay my bills. You can say " i pray to god for this and that", and nothing happens. Until the day the catholic church takes care of me and pays my bills they can say what they want.

I pray every day, believe in god and consider myself catholic. And i am a proud mason.

But on a serious note google how many popes and cardinals are masons. Lol.


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## BryanMaloney (Jul 4, 2014)

Levelhead said:


> Im catholic. And act as a catholic should as a mason. Seriously the catholic church dont pay my bills. You can say " i pray to god for this and that", and nothing happens. Until the day the catholic church takes care of me and pays my bills they can say what they want.
> 
> I pray every day, believe in god and consider myself catholic. And i am a proud mason.
> 
> But on a serious note google how many popes and cardinals are masons. Lol.




1: If "paying your bills" is the criterion, then you should simply be an atheist. God isn't paying your bills, either.
2: Claims found via Google about popes or cardinals being Masons always link to pages that are simultaneously saying that Masons are evil and Catholics are evil. Therefore, if you take those online claims as true, then you must also believe that Masons are evil.


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## Levelhead (Jul 4, 2014)

Might have been misunderstood. Just saying that im not gonna let anyones words effect me. 

I run my own life. And i am a proud mason. 

Telling me i should be an atheist is the most insulting thing you could say to me. 

With that said. Good night.


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## BryanMaloney (Jul 5, 2014)

You flatly stated that your standard for validity of whether or not something (like the Catholic Church) should be honored was whether or not it paid your bills. That would also apply to God, in such case.


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## Flatworlder (Jul 5, 2014)

Someone once said that as a freemason we should refrain from discussions of Religion..does that apply here. It is after all a touchy subject. 
Just a thought, my fellow brothers.


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## Willys (Jul 6, 2014)

Flatworlder said:


> If we were to read history.. it might shine light on this topic. I'm still trying to figure it all out. Anyone care to share?


I would suggest if you're looking for permissions then you'll probably be more satisfied by receiving them from a mirror than from a religious organization.  Just try to ensure it's your own moral authority making your decisions and not that of the mirror.

See... _'Light'_


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## Levelhead (Jul 6, 2014)

Flatworlder said:


> Someone once said that as a freemason we should refrain from discussions of Religion..does that apply here. It is after all a touchy subject.
> Just a thought, my fellow brothers.


Very true


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## dfreybur (Jul 6, 2014)

Flatworlder said:


> Someone once said that as a freemason we should refrain from discussions of Religion..does that apply here. It is after all a touchy subject.
> Just a thought, my fellow brothers.



Technically, the landmark applies to discussion in a tiled lodge meeting.  Tradition extends that restriction farther.  The farther we get from a tiled meeting the less the restriction applies.  As this forum is publicly available on the Internet we are far away from our private meetings.  Still care should be taken and we should tread lightly.

It's the internal not the external criteria.  Faith is internal.  Religion is one type of external expression.


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## Danbeaux (Jul 6, 2014)

Two interesting points here. 

First, yes Freemasonry accepts Catholics, we have Brothers in my lodge who are Catholic.  The Catholic Church is historically Anit-Mason.
Second, "afd004" makes an interesting point...I too grew up and was confirmed in a Wisconsin Synod Lutheran.  And I think that particular minister was indeed too rabid.  While the church teaches its members to not join secret fraternities because they do not want a member to violate his oath of secrecy. (They feel violating such an oath is a very serious sin)  Yet, I joined a fraternity in college (Kappa Alpha Order) and was not thrown out of the church.  Later in life I became a Freemason....at no time have I betrayed any of the secret work to anyone other than a true brother. (we actually have so few secrets in masonry) 

So I agree with afd004; we all make our own decisions.  We each have our own relationship with God.  And there is nothing about Freemasonry that conflicts with the Catholic or Lutheran church.


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## pointwithinacircle2 (Jul 6, 2014)

When I was taking RCIA classes in 2001 I explained to the priest that I was a Freemason and asked of I could still be a Catholic.  He looked at me strangely and said "You lay bricks?".  He had never heard of Freemasonry.


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## nixxon2000 (Jul 6, 2014)

pointwithinacircle2 said:


> When I was taking RCIA classes in 2001 I explained to the priest that I was a Freemason and asked of I could still be a Catholic.  He looked at me strangely and said "You lay bricks?".  He had never heard of Freemasonry.


Ok that's funny. 

The bishop in my area will not just go after the mason but him family. So we have to keep it hidden. 

Sent from my freemasonry pro app on my galaxy s5.


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## MBC (Jul 8, 2014)

When I was petitioned to the lodge, the brethren told me it is ok for a Catholic to join because the only requirement on religious view is believe in a supreme being.
I asked a Father in my diocese, "Can a Catholic join Freemasonry?" and he answered me no without a reason. LOL
However, I joined and enjoy the times with my brethren.


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## Warrior1256 (Aug 20, 2014)

dfreybur said:


> I'm glad there is not.  It's an example of Freemasonry living up to our religious freedom and of the landmark to not bring up sectarian religion in lodge.
> 
> We ask a question on the petition if you believe in the existence of a supreme being.  In the investigation process we ask your recommenders if you have a reputation for honesty (your lodge does teach this as part of the process, right, hint, hint).  then we take you at your word and the topic is completed.
> 
> Having some preacher ask for a membership list with the potential of hassling members is exactly why we keep such data private.  Being loud and proud is a choice many of us make but it is a personal choice.


I am one of the loud and proud. My pastor isn't exactly happy that I joined the Masonic Lodge but he doesn't make a big deal out of it either.


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## Jraiford (Sep 15, 2014)

Chromedome37 said:


> I make the point because out of courtesy I asked my father in law before joining the Masons it made him uncomfortable but because of what the Shriners have done for our daughter he could understand my reasoning behind it and accepted it it was simply a courtesy that I chose to afford him as he would have afforded me if something that affected me came up being Missouri Synod Lutheran it could have been uncomfortable for him I'm Methodist so it doesn't matter much to me. As you said brother Steve being both free and over 21 a man can choose to do as he pleases I'm proud to be able to Mason and Shriner
> 
> Sent From My Freemasonry Pro App


I was raised Baptist, and the Baptist preacher does not mind one bit doing a Masonic funeral. The Methodist preacher at the church i go to buy ribs from our fundraiser every time we have one.. It is a very small congregation and there are a few of my lodge brothers there. However, in a really small town where they compete for members, he will not step on any toes. My thoughts are if the church does not accept masonry, i will find another church


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## ess1113 (Sep 16, 2014)

Brother Jraiford, 
I wish it was that simple.


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## MaineMason (Sep 16, 2014)

As an Episcopalian, there are lots of brothers in any Episcopal church you might visit, and have never known an Episcopal Priest who would have a problem with members of the Vestry or the congregation being Freemasons. I know Roman Catholic Freemasons. They tend to keep it quiet. We Episcopalians, on the other hand, will wear blue lodge rings and lapel pins to the Eucharist on Sundays.


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## Jraiford (Sep 24, 2014)

ess1113 said:


> Brother Jraiford,
> I wish it was that simple.



We all find God in different ways. Otherwise, there would only be one church. There is only 1 catholic church here (in this county) and i dont know who all goes there. I guess when people are searching for a church home, they find the one they feel comfortable in, the one they feel welcome in, and one that fits their thoughts and beliefs. That said, I can understand how someone would choose Baptist, Methodist, Lutheran, and so on. It isnt that easy to some, but even easier to others. 
I guess my point is, our beliefs are passed down from our parents and even our closest friends. We dont understand why we are who we are, we just accept it. 
And i guess if a man wanted to join the lodge, what right (even tho they disagree with it) does the church have to tell me how to worship, or how to spend my free time? 
I heard a story of a Brother Mason who went to the Assembly of God church here. He was told they didnt allow masons, and if he was a mason and still wanted to attend, he had to keep it a secret. He told them that wasnt the church home he was looking for and moved on. 
Im sorry my point wavers all over the place, and sometimes never hits where i want it too. But i think you get the picture. (maybe)


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## MaineMason (Sep 24, 2014)

Jraiford said:


> We all find God in different ways. Otherwise, there would only be one church. There is only 1 catholic church here (in this county) and i dont know who all goes there. I guess when people are searching for a church home, they find the one they feel comfortable in, the one they feel welcome in, and one that fits their thoughts and beliefs. That said, I can understand how someone would choose Baptist, Methodist, Lutheran, and so on. It isnt that easy to some, but even easier to others.
> I guess my point is, our beliefs are passed down from our parents and even our closest friends. We dont understand why we are who we are, we just accept it.
> And i guess if a man wanted to join the lodge, what right (even tho they disagree with it) does the church have to tell me how to worship, or how to spend my free time?
> I heard a story of a Brother Mason who went to the Assembly of God church here. He was told they didnt allow masons, and if he was a mason and still wanted to attend, he had to keep it a secret. He told them that wasnt the church home he was looking for and moved on.
> Im sorry my point wavers all over the place, and sometimes never hits where i want it too. But i think you get the picture. (maybe)


I am one of several Episcopalians in my lodge and others are American Baptists, UCC, one is Roman Catholic, (also in Chapter) and other denominations. We don't talk about church or politics, because the Constitution of our Grand Lodge, like all others, forbid it. 

My father describes himself as a "Deist", which several Masons and Founding Fathers of this country did in the 18th Century. I am a fifth generation Master Mason. I have no problem with that even if I'm an Episcopalian.  My father's, or any other Mason's belief is none of my business as long as he believes in a being higher than himself and is willing to take his oaths and obligations in Lodge. 

Fun anecdote: we only said "grace" at table in my family at Thanksgiving, Christmas, and Easter. As a kid, my grandfather said grace (he was a Mason) and he said "Amen" at the end and the other generations of men who were Masons replied "So Mote it Be". I'll never forget that. 

My grandfather was nominally Anglican/Episcopalian, but far from devout. He was, however, a great Freemason.


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## NY.Light (Nov 17, 2014)

Jraiford said:


> We all find God in different ways. Otherwise, there would only be one church. There is only 1 catholic church here (in this county) and i dont know who all goes there. I guess when people are searching for a church home, they find the one they feel comfortable in, the one they feel welcome in, and one that fits their thoughts and beliefs. That said, I can understand how someone would choose Baptist, Methodist, Lutheran, and so on. It isnt that easy to some, but even easier to others.
> I guess my point is, our beliefs are passed down from our parents and even our closest friends. We dont understand why we are who we are, we just accept it.
> And i guess if a man wanted to join the lodge, what right (even tho they disagree with it) does the church have to tell me how to worship, or how to spend my free time?
> I heard a story of a Brother Mason who went to the Assembly of God church here. He was told they didnt allow masons, and if he was a mason and still wanted to attend, he had to keep it a secret. He told them that wasnt the church home he was looking for and moved on.
> Im sorry my point wavers all over the place, and sometimes never hits where i want it too. But i think you get the picture. (maybe)




You have to keep in mind that, for Catholics (in my own experience), we trust in the teaching of the Magisterium and the Holy Father. They are direct links to the first apostles, and ultimately to Christ, through Apostolic Succession.  Also, a point of correction.  There is 1 Catholic Church, and her members are beyond the United States.  The Roman Church is catholic (which means universal) in our beliefs and practices, and this goes beyond any man-made political borders, or even geographical borders.  The Church, clergy and laity, constitutes the mystical body.  It is not particular to the United States or any other country.


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## MaineMason (Nov 17, 2014)

I am both a Master Mason (and a Royal Arch Mason, and a Sublime Prince of the Royal Secret) and also an Anglican. Within Anglicanism, I am also a member of lay associate of the Confraternity of the Blessed Sacrament. Apostolic succession means something to Anglo-Catholics ("High Church" Episcopalians). Many monks, Priests, Deacons, and Bishops that I know in the worldwide Anglican Communion (the third largest body of Christians in the world, of which I am a member beyond my membership in my Blue Lodge, Consistory, and Holy Royal Arch Chapter) are also Freemasons. No Roman Catholic of upstanding character would ever be denied membership in the Masonic bodies where I belong.


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## NY.Light (Nov 17, 2014)

Essentially, the issue arises not from the POV of the lodge, but rather from the POV of the teaching of the Roman Catholic Church.  In another thread, I have laid out an argument for why I think Catholicism and Freemasonry are compatible.


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## Brother JC (Nov 17, 2014)

Actually, there is more than one Catholic Church; the question is regarding the Roman Catholic Church.
Carry on...


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## MaineMason (Nov 17, 2014)

trysquare said:


> Actually, there is more than one Catholic Church; the question is regarding the Roman Catholic Church.
> Carry on...


Indeed, and Anglo-Catholics consider themselves to be in Apostolic Sucession and many of our Priests and Deacons and lay members also happen to be Freemasons,
and I'll add that we also tend to worship the Blessed Mother, Our Lady, as well.


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## NY.Light (Nov 17, 2014)

The Roman and Orthodox hold that the Anglican communion broke Apostolic Succession when they ordained women.  I realize many call themselves catholic. I only meant that when most people think of the Catholic (Capital "C") Church, they are referring to the Roman Church.

Also there are many Catholic masons.  Some are just more open about it than others.


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## MaineMason (Nov 17, 2014)

NY.Light said:


> The Roman and Orthodox hold that the Anglican communion broke Apostolic Succession when they ordained women.  I realize many call themselves catholic. I only meant that when most people think of the Catholic (Capital "C") Church, they are referring to the Roman Church.
> 
> Also there are many Catholic masons.  Some are just more open about it than others.


Apostolic Succession cannot be broken by ordaining women. Anglicanism is NOT Freemasonry. Freemasonry is NOT Anglicanism. That said, the third largest body of Christians in the world are Anglicans. They are not Southern Baptists, or Methodists, or Disciples of Christ but Anglicans, many of which are also Masons including members of the House of Windsor.


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## NY.Light (Nov 18, 2014)

Yes. However, from the perspective of the Magisterium of the Roman Church, ordained women do not have valid orders, because for the RCC and Orthodox only a man can be ordained.  So from their perspective, anyone ordained woman in the Anglican Communion, and anyone that a female bishop ordains, has invalid orders.  Thereby, apostolic succession in the view of the largest two branches of Christianity (Catholicism and Orthodoxy, 1st and 2nd, respectively) is not present any longer within the Anglican Communion.


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## MaineMason (Nov 18, 2014)

NY.Light said:


> Yes. However, from the perspective of the Magisterium of the Roman Church, ordained women do not have valid orders, because for the RCC and Orthodox only a man can be ordained.  So from their perspective, anyone ordained woman in the Anglican Communion, and anyone that a female bishop ordains, has invalid orders.  Thereby, apostolic succession in the view of the largest two branches of Christianity (Catholicism and Orthodoxy, 1st and 2nd, respectively) is not present any longer within the Anglican Communion.


From the perspective of the Roman Church Eastern Orthodox and Anglican Christians in valid orders do not have validity. It would pain me to suggest the condemnation you suggest. I would go further and suggest it might be unmasonic.


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## NY.Light (Nov 18, 2014)

Listen, this is not my personal opinion.  That of the Magisterium of the Roman Church and the Orthodox Patriarch is that Anglican Christians do not have valid orders.  It is not unmasonic to state this fact of the official view.  If you like, I can provide documentation for these claims.  This was not a slight against you, Anglican Christians, or any other Christian sect.


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## MaineMason (Nov 18, 2014)

NY.Light said:


> Listen, this is not my personal opinion.  That of the Magisterium of the Roman Church and the Orthodox Patriarch is that Anglican Christians do not have valid orders.  It is not unmasonic to state this fact of the official view.  If you like, I can provide documentation for these claims.  This was not a slight against you, Anglican Christians, or any other Christian sect.


Ick. Just Ick. I would like to see what you have to say about the Baptists. Just ick. 
Furthermore, I have no interest in what the Holy See has to say about me or any of my brothers. Icky.


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## dfreybur (Nov 19, 2014)

NY.Light said:


> It is not unmasonic to state this fact of the official view.



It is if you are in any tiled meeting.  No discussion of sectarian religion in any tiled meeting.  This landmark is expanded to a tradition of no discussion of sectarian religion in our buildings or at scheduled but not tiled events.  Our assemblies are sanctuaries from such topics.

This forum does not fit any of those criteria so such discussion is allowed.  Asserting that it is not unMasonic is a bit much even in this forum.  The reactions here show exactly why our landmark is in place.  Even when treading lightly the topic of religion is a mine field and quoting one sect's official policies is treading heavily.


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## Warrior1256 (Nov 21, 2014)

dfreybur said:


> It is if you are in any tiled meeting.  No discussion of sectarian religion in any tiled meeting.  This landmark is expanded to a tradition of no discussion of sectarian religion in our buildings or at scheduled but not tiled events.  Our assemblies are sanctuaries from such topics.
> 
> This forum does not fit any of those criteria so such discussion is allowed.  Asserting that it is not unMasonic is a bit much even in this forum.  The reactions here show exactly why our landmark is in place.  Even when treading lightly the topic of religion is a mine field and quoting one sect's official policies is treading heavily.


Agreed, We do not even ask anyone in my lodge what church a member attends or even whether or not he attends a church whether in tiled lodge or the meal before the tiled meeting.


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## jwardl (Dec 24, 2014)

Absolutely. No man is turned away because of his faith -- so long as he has one.


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## drw72 (Sep 24, 2015)

I was raised Catholic, am still active in the Catholic Church and even send my daughter to Catholic School.
After much searching, studying, and praying I made my decision to become a Freemason last year. In my quest I found a lot of conflicting and confusing information on the Catholic Church and Freemasonry but here is what I got out of it.

First the Papal Bulls:

“Papal Bull: As for the binding force of these documents it is generally admitted that the mere fact that the pope should have given to any of his utterances the form of an encyclical or bull does not necessarily constitute it an ex-cathedra pronouncement and invest it with infallible authority.” (Bulls and Briefs. In The Catholic Encyclopedia)

In 1736, the Inquisition investigated a Masonic Lodge in Florence, Italy, which it condemned in June 1737.

This investigation led, in 1738, to Pope Clement XII, himself Florentine, issuing ‘In eminenti apostolatus’, the original papal prohibition on Freemasonry. The reasons for the prohibition were stated as:

“Now it has come to Our ears, and common gossip has made clear, that certain Societies, Companies, Assemblies, Meetings, Congregations or Conventicles called in the popular tongue Liberi Muratori or Francs Massons or by other names according to the various languages, are spreading far and wide and daily growing in strength; and men of any Religion or sect, satisfied with the appearance of natural probity, are joined together, according to their laws and the statutes laid down for them, by a strict and unbreakable bond which obliges them, both by an oath upon the Holy Bible and by a host of grievous punishment, to an inviolable silence about all that they do in secret together. But it is in the nature of crime to betray itself and to show itself by its attendant clamor. Thus these aforesaid Societies or Conventicles have caused in the minds of the faithful the greatest suspicion, and all prudent and upright men have passed the same judgment on them as being depraved and perverted. For if they were not doing evil they would not have so great a hatred of the light. Indeed, this rumor has grown to such proportions that in several countries these societies have been forbidden by the civil authorities as being against the public security, and for some time past have appeared to be prudently eliminated.”

So Pope Clement XII, as stated in his own Bull, that his information was based on common gossip, suspicion, and rumor. On top of that, a Papal Bull is not “infallible”.

The ban of In eminenti was reiterated and expanded upon by Benedict XIV (1751), Pius VII (1821), Leo XII (1826), Pius VIII (1829), Gregory XVI (1832), Pius IX (1846, 1849, 1864, 1865, 1869, 1873), and notably Pope Leo XIII in the encyclical Humanum genus (1884).

Several of these Bulls and encyclicals also condemned Protestantism as “as dangerous for the souls of the faithful”; salvation only comes from the Catholic Church, and the supremacy of the Papacy. All of which the Church has changed its stance on. It now recognizes Trinity based Protestant denominations and teaches that they are paths to salvation (so you won’t go to hell if you are not Catholic). They also don’t preach the supremacy of the Catholic Church but instead teach that it is merely the only one with the “fullness” of the Christ’s church.
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Then we have “Canon Law”:

The Corpus Juris Canonici (lit. ‘Body of Canon Law’) is the collection of significant sources of Canon Law of the Catholic Church that was applicable to the universal Church or specifically to Churches of the Latin Rite or Eastern Rites. It was replaced by the 1917 Code of Canon Law which went into effect in 1918.

The 1917 Code of Canon Law explicitly declared that joining Freemasonry entailed automatic excommunication. The 1917 Code of Canon Law also forbade books promoting Freemasonry.

In 1983 the Church revised the Code of Canon Law. Unlike its predecessor, however, Canon 1374 does not explicitly name Masonic orders among the secret societies it condemns. It states:

“A person who joins an association which plots against the Church is to be punished with a just penalty; one who promotes or takes office in such an association is to be punished with an interdict.”

Many people, including many Catholic scholars, took this to mean that it was now OK for Catholics to become Masons. And many Catholics did – especially in the United States—where the Church itself was already more liberal.

To “remove the confusion” in the wording, in November of 1983, the Congregation for the Doctrine of The Faith issued a declaration stating that the prohibition was still in force.

Prefect Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith issued a Declaration on Masonic Associations, which reiterated the Church’s previous objections to Freemasonry. The Declaration states:

“The faithful who enroll in Masonic associations are in a state of grave sin and may not receive Holy Communion….” and “…the Church’s negative judgment in regard to Masonic association(s) remains unchanged since their principles have always been considered irreconcilable with the doctrine of the Church and therefore membership in them remains forbidden.”

Here is the catch; The Doctrine of Faith is not Canon Law, and cannot overturn Canon Law. Many Catholic scholars saw the response as an attempt by right wing elements in the Church to use “interpretation” to put laws back in that had been taken out. To quote one scholar, “It would have been very simple to have kept the word Freemasonry in the Code. It was taken out. It really isn’t something that needs interpretation.”

At this point, the Catholic Church in America has been somewhat indifferent about the whole thing. For example:

On September 15, 2000, the Reverend Thomas Anslow, Judicial Vicar of the Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Los Angeles, wrote a letter to David Patterson, Executive Secretary of the Masonic Service Bureau of Los Angeles. In reply to the question “whether a practicing Catholic may join a Masonic Lodge” Father Anslow said that “at least for Catholics in the United States, I believe the answer is probably yes”.

Of course when his superiors found out about it the letter was publicly retracted by Father Anslow on with the explanation that his analysis was faulty. He said that Freemasonry fostered a “supraconfessional humanitarian” conception of the divine “that neutralizes or replaces the faith dimension of our relationship with God.”

Then there is Bro. Danny Thomas, possibly one of the more famous Masons of my generation and founder of St. Jude Children’s Research Hospital. A devout Maronite Catholic, Thomas was named a Knight Commander of the Order of the Holy Sepulchre by Pope Paul VI in recognition of his services to the church and the community. After which he became a Mason and Shriner…did the Pope ever revoke his Knighthood? No, in fact a lot of Catholic ‘authorities’ claim the Freemasons are lying about him being a Mason/Shriner.
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So here is my reasoning.

I see the Catholic Church as not really being able to make up its mind and even being hypocritical when it comes to Freemasonry. Heck, it openly condemns contraception in Cannon Law, in writing, in Church teaching and yet turns a blind eye to the *98% of Catholics who use it (*2012 poll). It gives communion and/or does nothing about big name Catholics who openly support abortion and homosexual marriage (Andrew Cuomo, Joseph Biden, Nancy Pelosi and Jerry Brown) yet harasses and/or denies communion to Catholic freemasons.

I do not see any infallible Catholic doctrine or cannon law that puts me in a condition of sin by being a Mason, only a long history of Church opinions that are ultimately based on suspicion, rumor, and gossip.

Every man must join Freemasonry by his own free will. I did not feel I was going against my beliefs or Church law to join, or that I am sinning by remaining a member.

I have never known anyone personally who has had an issue, and I know many Catholic Masons.

Again, this is my opinion only. Freemasonry does not hold an opinion on this matter.


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## Warrior1256 (Sep 25, 2015)

You obviously really did your homework on this brother. Glad to have you with us.


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## jwhoff (Sep 25, 2015)

Monotheism.

Belief in a supreme deity.

That you have a relationship with that deity.

Recognition that you must have a relationship with your neighbor, also made by that deity.

Thus, the triangular relationship, which takes many forms.  

Yes,  freemasonry accepts our Brothers of all faiths adhering to imperatives above.  

Be they religious faiths or sects within a particular religious faith.

Pretty clear and simple.  Of course, one has to forgo the tribal urge to judge ones' own neighbor.  Something masonry also cherishes but that is often lost in the material world in which we all must live.


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## Glen Cook (Sep 25, 2015)

jwhoff said:


> Monotheism.
> 
> Belief in a supreme deity.
> 
> ...


Are you indicating these are requisites for membership?


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## jwhoff (Sep 26, 2015)

Are you saying your jurisdiction has not these requisites?  If so, you please explain what your jurisdiction goes by.


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## Glen Cook (Sep 26, 2015)

jwhoff said:


> Are you saying your jurisdiction has not these requisites?  If so, you please explain what your jurisdiction goes by.


I'm aware of no jurisdiction which has all these.


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## jwhoff (Sep 27, 2015)

My Brother.  You are either being argumentative or refusing to understand the spirit of freemasonry in MANY jurisdictions.  For one, Texas.  

I do not wish to swap similar emails with you in this manner.  

It may be better to let each post his feelings without such close criticism.  Remember, you or / and I may be absolutely wrong.


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## Glen Cook (Sep 27, 2015)

I apologize.  I'm not trying to be argumentative, but to clarify your statement.   I specifically asked if you were indicating your list were requisites.  You declined to answer my question, posing your own, asking what "requisites" my jurisdiction uses.  You now indicate that you refer to the "spirit" of Freemasonry. I'm good with that.

However, I'm aware of no jurisdiction that requires a "relationship" with deity or one's neighbor, including Texas. Certainly, knowledgeable Masons can correct me. 

Certainly, there are jurisdictions which require monotheism, but not all.  As you indicate there are monotheistic requirements, clearly we do not accept brothers of all faiths in all jurisdictions. Indeed, there are jurisdictions which are Christian only.


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## jwhoff (Sep 27, 2015)

No need Brother.  Texas does require a belief in deity.  Christianity is not required, only desired as a requirement by some.


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## dfreybur (Sep 29, 2015)

jwhoff said:


> Monotheism.



Not a requirement in any of my jurisdictions, though I have met brothers who incorrectly think so.  Thinking so does not make it so.  Search all you like for monotheism as a requirement but you will not find it in almost any jurisdiction.  We explicitly do not exclude men of faiths that don't teach monotheism.  Consider what happened a couple of years ago in Florida when an errant GM issued an edict on the topic.  His edict was voted down in a collective act of Masonic values.

The requirement is "Do you believe in the existence of a supreme being".  The question of the word "supreme" can be easy or difficult depending on the individual polytheistic faith in question and the individual's view of the matter.

More accurately than that the requirement is a "yes" answer to the question, which leaves all of that up to the candidate.


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## Warrior1256 (Sep 30, 2015)

dfreybur said:


> The requirement is "Do you believe in the existence of a supreme being". The question of the word "supreme" can be easy or difficult depending on the individual polytheistic faith in question and the individual's view of the matter.
> 
> More accurately than that the requirement is a "yes" answer to the question, which leaves all of that up to the candidate.


Agreed.


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## Bill Lins (Sep 30, 2015)

dfreybur said:


> The requirement is "Do you believe in the existence of a supreme being".


The operative word here is "a". Meaning only one. Meaning above all others. Pretty simple, actually.


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