# Has the time come to reach out and ask for new members?



## Les Verts (Sep 15, 2020)

Given the ongoing decline of numbers in the Gentle Craft, has the time come to reach out and ask for new members?  Through the years, I've met a good few men who would probably make fine Masons but never asked for a petition.  I don't hide my membership and have a great pride in the Gentle Craft but perhaps we need to change our approach.  A friend and colleague joined the Knights of Columbus some years ago after an invitation from a member - he was welcomed as a new member and is now an active Knight.  Thoughts?  Comments?


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## jermy Bell (Sep 15, 2020)

I dont see a reason not to. But just remember, be careful  on who you invite, because  if they really aren't  who they seem, it is very hard for some reason  to get them out.


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## Pointwithinacircle3 (Sep 15, 2020)

That would certainly be a lot easier than becoming such an exceptional human being that people would be attracted to the craft.


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## Glen Cook (Sep 15, 2020)

Many GLs do allow solicitation.


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## Winter (Sep 16, 2020)

If potential brothers are not coming to you and knocking on the door asking to join, the problem isn't whether you can ask someone to join or not.  It is because they do not see anything interesting enough to them that makes them cross the street.  Fix that and you will never have to go beat the bushes for members.  This is not new information.  So many Brothers have crowed this from the rooftops for years to little effect.  And the road map to a more engaging Lodge experience is no secret either with stacks of books and treatise on the subject.  What good is it to ask someone to join if you don't change the problem that is causing people to not come find you?


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## Pointwithinacircle3 (Sep 16, 2020)

If you want to be better, act better.  When I saw that my Lodge had nothing to teach me I joined Toastmasters.  They have an actual program that teaches Grammar, Rhetoric, and Logic.  Using their program I designed and presented short talks on Masonic topics in open Lodge.  However I was not able to find any Brothers who were interested in participating in a Masonic Speakers group.


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## Warrior1256 (Sep 18, 2020)

My way around the "No Solicitation" rule is simple. If I know someone that I believe would be an asset to Masonry I simply bring up Freemasonry in a conversation and talk about what a worthwhile and interesting organization it is. If he then asks how to become a Mason my reaction is: "Well, since you asked....."


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## Pointwithinacircle3 (Sep 19, 2020)

It is my observation that Freemasonry no longer has a cohesive purpose.  Perhaps we might attract men of good character if we found one.


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## Forthright (Sep 19, 2020)

Les Verts said:


> has the time come to reach out and ask for new members?



It was never a bad time to talk to people in your network about it if they show interest.  And to generally have conversation with good people in your life about what they want out of life.  No change today.

If you have the right relationship with someone, I see no harm in suggesting that they look into Freemasonry, and providing them the means to do that.  Rather than outline every little thing you can/can't do with potential members, just refer back to the principles: it's important they know what they're doing and come of their own free will and accord. That probably means offering real inducements is not a good idea.  But offering honest discussion & your opinion, well if that's ever off-limits, we're all in trouble.


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## Pointwithinacircle3 (Sep 19, 2020)

Forthright, post: 210181, member: 23448“]If you have the right relationship with someone, I see no harm in suggesting that they look into Freemasonry [/QUOTE] 

I can think of some harm.  It is my opinion that if you: talk to a man about joining, if you hand him a petition, or sign a petition, you have accepted an obligation to make him feel like he is your brother.    The fewer people who feel an obligation to make the new man feel like a Brother the greater the chance that he will stop coming back.


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## Elexir (Sep 19, 2020)

JamestheJust said:


> The tide has being going out on modern Freemasonry for some centuries.  Blavatsky, writing in the 1880s, said that no Masonic lodges still had the genuine secrets.   (She did not state that no Masons had the genuine secrets.)
> 
> The task of that which what we call Freemasonry still exists and it is evident that the human race feels the need to manage the planetary temple.
> 
> ...



Madame Blavatsky did get a lot of things wrong.
Böhme is better.

The "ancient scottish freemasonry" still survives since the stuarts named their sucessor and gave him authority. Considering that it has either been transferd down the line or it died inside a GL.


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## Jim In Bozeman Montana (Sep 19, 2020)

Pointwithinacircle3 said:


> Forthright, post: 210181, member: 23448“]If you have the right relationship with someone, I see no harm in suggesting that they look into Freemasonry



I can think of some harm.  It is my opinion that if you: talk to a man about joining, if you hand him a petition, or sign a petition, you have accepted an obligation to make him feel like he is your brother.    The fewer people who feel an obligation to make the new man feel like a Brother the greater the chance that he will stop coming back.[/QUOTE]
Sorry, but I am confused by your wording. Do you mean to say "The more Brothers who make a new Brother feel welcomed and valued the better. The new Brother is then more likely to stay active."?


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## Pointwithinacircle3 (Sep 20, 2020)

.


Jim In Bozeman Montana said:


> Sorry, but I am confused by your wording. Do you mean to say "The more Brothers who make a new Brother feel welcomed and valued the better. The new Brother is then more likely to stay active."?


Yes.


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## Pointwithinacircle3 (Sep 21, 2020)

JamestheJust said:


> It is called "love bombing" and the term was coined by a church.


Hmmmmm.  Well, this conversation has taken such an interesting turn that I am no longer sure that the message I hoped to convey in my original post was clear.  I was trying to say that if we don’t treat our new Brothers like Brothers it might be our fault if they do not return.  

Perhaps this belief is based on my personal experience.  When I was raised I attended Lodge religiously.  It was a small rural Lodge so it was just me and a bunch of GOPM’s (Grumpy Old Past Masters).  After a year I really felt like no one cared if I showed up or not.  No one talked to me unless it was to ask me to perform some task.  Quite honestly I began to think “I know what it means to be a Mason and these guys don’t”.  (My father and grandfather were Mason’s, so Masonry was something very meaningful to me)  I almost quit attending Lodge.  

But then something interesting happened.  The next time a petition was read in Lodge I recognized the man’s name although we had never met.  (It was a small town)  So I sought him out.  I introduced myself, told him I had heard his petition read in Lodge, and that if he was accepted we would be Brothers so I wanted to get to know him.  I invited him to my home.  I showed him my Masonic books and offered to loan him one if he wanted.  I fixed him lunch. All this happened before he was raised.  After he was raised I sat next to him in Lodge and explained things like whose column was up and why, J&B, and the reasons behind why certain things happened in Lodge.  In short, I treated him like a brother.  

Interestingly, when the next petition was read in Lodge he treated the petitioner the way I had treated him.  Apparently because he thought that’s how Masons acted.  So yes, I have an attitude.  Maybe I’m wrong.  Maybe ignoring the new guy is some kind of traditional Masonic hazing that I just don’t know about.  Either way I am going to keep doing what I do unless I am told not to.  I hope that’s clear.


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## Thomas Stright (Sep 21, 2020)

I find those that seek stay...


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## M8925 (Sep 21, 2020)

Enviado desde mi iPhone utilizando My Freemasonry Mobile


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## Bloke (Sep 29, 2020)

Pointwithinacircle3 said:


> Hmmmmm.  Well, this conversation has taken such an interesting turn that I am no longer sure that the message I hoped to convey in my original post was clear.  I was trying to say that if we don’t treat our new Brothers like Brothers it might be our fault if they do not return.
> 
> Perhaps this belief is based on my personal experience.  When I was raised I attended Lodge religiously.  It was a small rural Lodge so it was just me and a bunch of GOPM’s (Grumpy Old Past Masters).  After a year I really felt like no one cared if I showed up or not.  No one talked to me unless it was to ask me to perform some task.  Quite honestly I began to think “I know what it means to be a Mason and these guys don’t”.  (My father and grandfather were Mason’s, so Masonry was something very meaningful to me)  I almost quit attending Lodge.
> 
> ...


I vehemently disagree with you Brother, if someone tells to you stop, please don't !
Well done. I need more members like you. We all do.


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## Brother RG (Oct 10, 2020)

Winter said:


> If potential brothers are not coming to you and knocking on the door asking to join, the problem isn't whether you can ask someone to join or not.  It is because they do not see anything interesting enough to them that makes them cross the street.  Fix that and you will never have to go beat the bushes for members.  This is not new information.  So many Brothers have crowed this from the rooftops for years to little effect.  And the road map to a more engaging Lodge experience is no secret either with stacks of books and treatise on the subject.  What good is it to ask someone to join if you don't change the problem that is causing people to not come find you?



I agree! The question I get asked a lot is what do Freemasons do... If we were not out there doing some type of Charity work or anything to be part of the community what would i be able to tell someone to even gain a little interest. Luckily i have a small Youtube channel that has some of the events we have participated in and i direct them to that, then thats when i get the "thats awesome' acknowledgement! I actually have three individuals who want to join but with this halt we can't proceed.

My advice is utilize the social media tools to an extent, you're not promoting but you can show how you are working. We are in a virtual era, so lets utilize the virtual platforms to show our charity work. Food banks, clothes drives, holiday presence, etc. Show the people that Square and Compass and they will start knocking!


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## Winter (Oct 11, 2020)

Brother RG said:


> I agree! The question I get asked a lot is what do Freemasons do... If we were not out there doing some type of Charity work or anything to be part of the community what would i be able to tell someone to even gain a little interest. [snip]
> Food banks, clothes drives, holiday presence, etc. Show the people that Square and Compass and they will start knocking!



Those are all laudable endeavors.  But none of them are the actual purpose of Freemasonry.  It seems like you are portraying the Craft as a charity/volunteer group.


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## Pointwithinacircle3 (Oct 11, 2020)

Winter said:


> Those are all laudable endeavors.  But none of them are the actual purpose of Freemasonry.  It seems like you are portraying the Craft as a charity/volunteer group.


Every time I see a statement like this I feel compelled to point out that it seems like the number of Masons who know the actual purpose of Freemasonry is either few or none. Those who claim to know the actual secrets are keeping them so secret that they never pass them on. This leaves each man to guess at the secrets as best he can and make his Masonry the best way he can. We call it a fraternity but in my experience Freemasonry is a very lonely road. Or perhaps I am just to dense to get it.


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## Winter (Oct 11, 2020)

Pointwithinacircle3 said:


> Every time I repair statement like this I feel compelled to point out that it seems like the number of Masons who know the actual purpose of Freemasonry is either few or none. Those who claim to know the actual secrets are keeping them so secret that they never pass them on. This leaves each man to guess at the secrets as best he can and make his Masonry the best way he can. We call it a fraternity but in my experience Freemasonry is a very lonely road. Or perhaps I am just to dense to get it.



This bothers me because our purpose isn't a secret at all.  It's laid out pretty clearly in the degrees.  I think the problem lies in that so many Lodge's see the degrees as a hurdle to get over so the new initiate is a dues paying member rather than seeing the rituals for what they are, the blueprint for our Masonic journey.  Yet, so many Lodges never revisit the teachings set out in the Work after their Raising.  But I guarantee there are half a dozen Brothers putting a petition in their hand for this appendant body or that.


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## Brother RG (Oct 11, 2020)

Winter said:


> Those are all laudable endeavors.  But none of them are the actual purpose of Freemasonry.  It seems like you are portraying the Craft as a charity/volunteer group.



Sounds to me like all you want to do is stay in your lodge with the rest of the brothers, by all means go for it, but one of our greatest tenants is Charity! Why wouldn't you want to be part of a community! Freemasons do good in the world and if it takes going out and volunteering I'm okay with that! Please don't assume that i'm portraying anything! You speak of a blueprint for our Masonic journey but isn't this journey supposed to be Making good men better? If your journey means keeping yourself behind that door in your lodge, eating dinner and going back home then hey good for you.  You also mentioned something about "change the problem that is causing people to not come find you"... maybe not being part of the community is the problem since no one knows you exist.

If my response bothered you then I would love to know what your answer would be if someone approached you with the question of "what do freemasons do".


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## Winter (Oct 11, 2020)

Brother RG said:


> Sounds to me like all you want to do is stay in your lodge with the rest of the brothers, by all means go for it, but one of our greatest tenants is Charity! Why wouldn't you want to be part of a community! Freemasons do good in the world and if it takes going out and volunteering I'm okay with that! Please don't assume that i'm portraying anything! You speak of a blueprint for our Masonic journey but isn't this journey supposed to be Making good men better? If your journey means keeping yourself behind that door in your lodge, eating dinner and going back home then hey good for you.
> 
> If my response bothered you then I would love to know what your answer would be if someone approached you with the question of "what do freemasons do".



Please reread my post where I clearly stated that charity and volunteering are laudable activities but are not our actual stated purpose as laid out in our degree work.  My statement was challenging your patently false accusation that Masons who know our purpose are few or none.  If it is that way in your area, I am sorry. But that is not the case in every jurisdiction. I am trying to read your post "assuming positive intent" but your wording and several exclamation points is making it hard for me to take your replay as anything other than as an insult.


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## Pointwithinacircle3 (Oct 12, 2020)

There appear to be, as often happens, two topics under discussion in this thread.  One being “How do we make good men better” And the other being “How do we conduct ourselves as better men”.  Both topics are valuable.


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## Bloke (Oct 13, 2020)

Brother RG said:


> Sounds to me like all you want to do is stay in your lodge with the rest of the brothers, by all means go for it, but one of our greatest tenants is Charity! Why wouldn't you want to be part of a community! Freemasons do good in the world and if it takes going out and volunteering I'm okay with that! Please don't assume that i'm portraying anything! You speak of a blueprint for our Masonic journey but isn't this journey supposed to be Making good men better? If your journey means keeping yourself behind that door in your lodge, eating dinner and going back home then hey good for you.  You also mentioned something about "change the problem that is causing people to not come find you"... maybe not being part of the community is the problem since no one knows you exist.
> 
> If my response bothered you then I would love to know what your answer would be if someone approached you with the question of "what do freemasons do".



I am focusing on


Brother RG said:


> ....If my response bothered you then I would love to know what your answer would be if someone approached you with the question of "what do freemasons do".



Here is a challenge for you Bro, talk about Freemasonry without mentioning charity. Why ? Because Freemasonry is neither a charity nor a service organisation. In my opinion, talking about Freemasonry without mentioning charity will refine your understanding of it.


Brother RG said:


> ... , but one of our greatest tenants is Charity! ...".



I agree - charity is one of our greatest tenets. (And I will help you as someone once helped me when I made the same easy mistake, it's not "tenents" but "tenets" - it's super easy to slip the extra "n" into "tenets"). Lodges do not exist as a fund raising body or a workgroup for community service, they exist because of the ceremonial and social aspect and for _education _and self development. Charity and Benevolence are core activities of  most Freemasons, and they certainly are core values, but they are not the reason Freemasonry exists, at its core, improvement of the individual is why lodges exist, and we do that together as a social group supporting each other in that goal - but ultimately is an individual pursuit.

Getting out and helping makes us feel good. It helps others. But it is simply one small part of much wider lessons. That's why we speak of Charity _AND _Benevolence and not just charity.


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## Bloke (Oct 14, 2020)

W


JamestheJust said:


> I rather think that the common use of the term Charity is not what is meant in the ritual.  The Latin word Caritate is translated to Love.
> 
> Thus Faith, Hope and Charity is better as Faith, Hope and Love.  After all "our God is a god of love".
> 
> ...


We're topic drifting, but that's what good conversations do.

Bro James, why do you think we speak of both Benevolence and Charity. What's the difference ?


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## Bloke (Oct 15, 2020)

JamestheJust said:


> Benevolence is literally wishing good thereby it is an attitude.  Charity in modern (but not ancient) parlance is doing things that are intended be good for the target/recipient.
> 
> It is common that good deeds are done in a way that makes the doer feel good.
> 
> I read that a billionaire gave laptops to African villages that did not have electricity.  Mostly charity is less obviously giver-oriented.


Thanks


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## Brother RG (Oct 17, 2020)

Bloke said:


> I am focusing on
> 
> 
> Here is a challenge for you Bro, talk about Freemasonry without mentioning charity. Why ? Because Freemasonry is neither a charity nor a service organisation. In my opinion, talking about Freemasonry without mentioning charity will refine your understanding of it.
> ...




I appreciate the correction on the word Tenets. 

I don't really want to keep this thread going but I guess i'm still somewhat cloudy on the topic that I was originally responding to which was "changing the problem that is causing people to not come find you".  How are people supposed to know that a fraternity of  "good men" exist if they aren't seeing it with their own eyes. Masonry is an individual pursuit but if no one knows a group that can help with that pursuit exists how will they come knocking? No one is promoting community services but are we to disregard it? Why learn how to be a great man and not apply it to the world... it seems to me like thats referring to keeping it bottled up inside because its an individual pursuit. 

You made great points but I feel like the conversation went off somewhat, I never questioned the existence of Freemasonry all I stated was that one way we can change the problem that is causing people to not come find you is by being out there with the community. Of course its a self improvement but what good does learning a craft if we can't apply it. What good is a doctor if he doesn't want to heal people? 

Like I said maybe i'm just not understanding where this conversation is going but I appreciate all of you brothers.


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## Brother_Steve (Oct 18, 2020)

Invite: 
make a polite, formal, or friendly request to (someone) to go somewhere or to do something.
"we were *invited to* a dinner at the Embassy"

Inviting people to join implies that they are already accepted. How disappointed would they be if they were then told there is a process to join and a possible rejection?

I am not opposed to hint that someone would make a good mason, but I would never lead them on to believe there was no vetting purpose.


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## Todd M. Stewart (Oct 18, 2020)

This question takes me back to a more fundamental question that I think Freemasonry has been avoiding for too long.  I spoke to it in reference to MWB Dwight L. Smith's essay's  "Whither are we Traveling" and "Why This Confusion at the Temple"  and "Laudable Pursuit: A 21st Century Response to Dwight Smith" from the Knights of the North in the thread here:
https://www.myfreemasonry.com/threads/are-you-a-born-again-fundamentalist-freemason.30565/

The thread also has all three essays attached.


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## Bloke (Oct 20, 2020)

Brother RG said:


> ....Like I said maybe i'm just not understanding where this conversation is going but I appreciate all of you brothers.



I don't understand where it is going either.. but that's okay  I like a good meandering conversation.

And I agree. We do need to be seen. We've picked up members by eating at the pub.... but I think the main thing is that people know about us and the best way is when good men own their membership by talking about it. 

I'll PM you..


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