# Light



## JB93 (Aug 30, 2016)

I think this subject have been discussed before but I really dont remember reading about it here. Idk if this is too much to discuss on here,
if you want to privately text me this information,I have my dues card to verify that I am a master mason and I will need to see yours also..  
but if it is not too much, I would love for someone to chop it up for me.


My WM is awsome he teaches me a lot but Im kind of still confused on this "challenging some one for their light" thing.

I don't wear paraphernalia nor do I ride with emblems. Not because I am scared but I just dont think about wearing it. Even though I know my knowledge, my wm taught me how to protect my light for when ever I decided to wear it. I only wear it at masonic events... I hear people try you in other states.. and I like visiting lodges.. so I may visit a few when I am on the road. I just dont know if I will ever get tried by one of them.. I can answer masonic questions but how they ask it might be weird to me.. He basically gave me a way to protect my light but how he know they ask it in that order...?? Plus it kind of sounded crazy because its not in the ritual that way...


1.What are the most common things asked when you driving with a emblem?

2.what are the most common thing asked when wearing your paraphernalia?


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## coachn (Aug 30, 2016)

None of this occurs in my jurisdiction.  No one challenges for light.


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## Ripcord22A (Aug 30, 2016)

I get asked "hey ur a mason?  What lodge?"  if someone ever tried to take my ring or sweatshirt or car emblem for any reason but especially becuse i cant answer some silly question they are gonna be dealing with me as a Man not a Mason.  Ill protect whats mine at all costs.  Actually id probably let em take after getting their name and lodge name and then show up with the police.  Also ive noticed that this is mainly a PHA and more so a clandestine thing.  What GL do you hail from?

Sent from my LG-H811 using My Freemasonry Pro mobile app


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## Glen Cook (Aug 30, 2016)

May I ask of what GL you are a member?

This silliness in some Mssonic cultures  of taking property has a definition. It is called theft. It is to be deplored.


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## JB93 (Aug 30, 2016)

PHA GLOG.. its not so much of taking my light but embarrassing me or something like that... its almost impossible to know everything in masonry.... I thought it was something you have to know or a way to answer things


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## mrpierce17 (Aug 30, 2016)

JB93 said:


> I think this subject have been discussed before but I really dont remember reading about it here. Idk if this is too much to discuss on here,
> if you want to privately text me this information,I have my dues card to verify that I am a master mason and I will need to see yours also..
> but if it is not too much, I would love for someone to chop it up for me.
> 
> ...



As far as the taking someone's property that's flat out theft and frowned upon by regular Mason's PHA & GL of state alike as for wearing Masonic paraphernalia I do almost all the time , never been challenged or felt as if someone asking me a question was challenging as I am duly qualified to answer any such question pertaining to the 1st , 2nd & 3rd degree of masonry secondly everyone should know me because I'm always at most events and festive days but anyone wanting to cross that bridge better be ready to answer a few questions themselves and that's even if I feel like playing the Q&A game at that time i may just decide to be off there is a short section in my ritual titled HOW TO PROTECT YOUR EMBLEM I think it pertains more to protecting the secret meanings than the emblem itself ....I'm 6ft 3" & 200+lbs I wish someone would try to take something from me this is one of the oldest and most honorable fraternity's Not a college frat


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## mrpierce17 (Aug 30, 2016)

JB93 said:


> PHA GLOG.. its not so much of taking my light but embarrassing me or something like that... its almost impossible to know everything in masonry.... I thought it was something you have to know or a way to answer things



If someone is asking you questions in public there probably 1 clandestine or 
2 not even in good standing


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## JB93 (Aug 30, 2016)

mrpierce17 said:


> As far as the taking someone's property that's flat out theft and frowned upon by regular Mason's PHA & GL of state alike as for wearing Masonic paraphernalia I do almost all the time , never been challenged or felt as if someone asking me a question was challenging as I am duly qualified to answer any such question pertaining to the 1st , 2nd & 3rd degree of masonry secondly everyone should know me because I'm always at most events and festive days but anyone wanting to cross that bridge better be ready to answer a few questions themselves and that's even if I feel like playing the Q&A game at that time i may just decide to be off there is a short section in my ritual titled HOW TO PROTECT YOUR EMBLEM I think it pertains more to protecting the secret meanings than the emblem itself ....I'm 6ft 3" & 200+lbs I wish someone would try to take something from me this is one of the oldest and most honorable fraternity's Not a college frat


Thanks for that info bro. Well i know no one is taking anything..I dont mind being tried. I just want them to try me by the ritual only.. lol


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## Dontrell Stroman (Aug 30, 2016)

Explain questions ?


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## Ripcord22A (Aug 30, 2016)

Pha glog?  MWPHGLoGA?

Sent from my LG-H811 using My Freemasonry Pro mobile app


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## Glen Cook (Aug 30, 2016)

JB93 said:


> PHA GLOG.. its not so much of taking my light but embarrassing me or something like that... its almost impossible to know everything in masonry.... I thought it was something you have to know or a way to answer things


Purposefully embarrassing a brother?  Umm, yeah, that's kindly


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## Glen Cook (Aug 31, 2016)

JB93 said:


> Thanks for that info bro. Well i know no one is taking anything..I dont mind being tried. I just want them to try me by the ritual only.. lol


Unless I am seeking entry to lodge or seeking a Masonic privilege, I can't think of a  need to try me. I am not going to come up to a stranger and converse on the secrets of Freemasonry. 

Of course, at my age, there is the issue of whether I could remember any secrets anyway.


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## Bloke (Aug 31, 2016)

JB93 said:


> I think this subject have been discussed before but I really dont remember reading about it here. Idk if this is too much to discuss on here,
> if you want to privately text me this information,I have my dues card to verify that I am a master mason and I will need to see yours also..
> but if it is not too much, I would love for someone to chop it up for me.
> 
> ...



Same - first time I'd heard of it was here... prior I'd never heard about this and would not have a good reaction to someone taking my property.


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## Bloke (Aug 31, 2016)

JamestheJust said:


> Not being from the US I can't reply too precisely, but with a significant variation of ritual and signs between states and countries, there is a fair degree of tolerance for differences and minor errors.
> 
> I proved a Colombian visitor the other day.  After inspecting his MM certificate I required him to advance to me as an EA.  He made the common mistake of a new brother, he made a mirror image of the first regular step.   I accepted that.  He then correctly provided the sign, grip and word of an EA.



Cool - we're getting *heaps* of South American visitors (students) here too... not sure what's up with that.... but its great to see them..


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## Warrior1256 (Aug 31, 2016)

jdmadsenCraterlake211 said:


> if someone ever tried to take my ring or sweatshirt or car emblem for any reason but especially becuse i cant answer some silly question they are gonna be dealing with me as a Man not a Mason. Ill protect whats mine at all costs.


Exactly!!!


Glen Cook said:


> This silliness in some Mssonic cultures of taking property has a definition. It is called theft. It is to be deplored.


Right!


Glen Cook said:


> Unless I am seeking entry to lodge or seeking a Masonic privilege, I can't think of a need to try me. I am not going to come up to a stranger and converse on the secrets of Freemasonry.


Right. How do I know that the other guy really is a Mason? Besides, why would anyone "try" me on the street? Ridiculous.


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## MRichard (Aug 31, 2016)

It's unmasonic behavior and violates your Obligations.


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## Ripcord22A (Aug 31, 2016)

MRichard said:


> It's unmasonic behavior and violates your Obligations.


ABSOLUTELY!!!


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## Dontrell Stroman (Aug 31, 2016)

Do you not ever exchange tokens with brothers outside the Lodge ?


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## Ripcord22A (Aug 31, 2016)

Normally I just shake their hands and introduce myself.  A few times with older breathen Ive extenden my hand and given the token of an EA.  Usually its in a crowd when speaking up would be hard to do.  Just a quick way to let them know that if the emblem they are wearing is theirs that Im here too. But the Tokens can easily be mistaken for just a weak handshake by nonMasons, and weak handshakes are also mistaken as the tokens by masonic conspiracy nuts


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## Glen Cook (Aug 31, 2016)

Travelling Man91 said:


> Do you not ever exchange tokens with brothers outside the Lodge ?


I will have some give me such if they know me.


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## Warrior1256 (Aug 31, 2016)

MRichard said:


> It's unmasonic behavior and violates your Obligations.





jdmadsenCraterlake211 said:


> ABSOLUTELY!!!


VERY true. I have seen before on this forum where someone has approached a Brother that was wearing Masonic bling and was told that if he could not prove that he was a Mason that he would have to hand over the ring, tie pin, whatever. This makes my blood boil. My reply would be..."You're going to take my personal property? Well, if you get it you will have to take it".


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## mrpierce17 (Aug 31, 2016)

Warrior1256 said:


> VERY someone has approached a Brother that was wearing Masonic bling and was told that if he could not prove that he was a Mason that he would have to hand over the ring, tie pin, whatever.".



LMFAO someone better call nine eleven because it would be about to go down that's the kinda thing that gets you suspended or even expelled from the order


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## mrpierce17 (Aug 31, 2016)

Seen it happen once when a brother left the clandy's for regularity they wanted there stuff back after the guy refused to play the Q&A game with them


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## Warrior1256 (Aug 31, 2016)

mrpierce17 said:


> LMFAO someone better call nine eleven because it would be about to go down that's the kinda thing that gets you suspended or even expelled from the order


....or beaten to a pulp!


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## JB93 (Aug 31, 2016)

I left a clandy. we never had workshops.. I basically studied on my own the whole time lol They never tried ne though. Probably scared i knew more


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## Bill Lins (Aug 31, 2016)

Travelling Man91 said:


> Do you not ever exchange tokens with brothers outside the Lodge ?


Extremely rarely. Generally not done outside of a tiled Lodge.


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## Dontrell Stroman (Sep 1, 2016)

If extremely rare, what is an occasion that you would ?


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## Ripcord22A (Sep 1, 2016)

Bill_Lins77488 said:


> Extremely rarely. Generally not done outside of a tiled Lodge.


I respect this Bill and here is where I am going to kinda flip flop on the subject......the token is so that we can know each other in the light as well as the dark.  To me this means in and out of lodge.  As I explained above the token isn't really a secret and gets confused by nonmasons all the time.  If someone sees you shake a hand that's all they are gonna see.  but it lets that man who you just gripped know that a friend and more importantly a Brother is near by should he need you!

Due Guards, penal signs, words are to be giving in a lodge or for instruction only.  Tokens are our way of IDing ourselves to others.  IMO


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## Warrior1256 (Sep 1, 2016)

Bill_Lins77488 said:


> Extremely rarely. Generally not done outside of a tiled Lodge.





jdmadsenCraterlake211 said:


> Tokens are our way of IDing ourselves to others. IMO


I can see both sides of this. Tokens are a way that we can identify each other outside of the lodge. But, at least in my case, it is rare. I've been a Freemason for two years and wear a Masonic ring all of the time and Masonic shirts a lot of the time. I have yet to exchange tokens outside of lodge.


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## Dontrell Stroman (Sep 1, 2016)

Have you not ever had a brother give you a penal sign outside of the Lodge ?


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## Ripcord22A (Sep 1, 2016)

I once had a older Black mason( I make this distinction as when ive told this story before PHA Masons seemed to recognize it more then nonPHA masons)  Notice my decal on my truck.  He asked me what it was and I asked him if he was a Mason.  He then asked me "have you seen my little dog(giving the EA dueguard) hes about this tall(giving the MM dueguard) last time I saw him he was heading East(gave the MM penal sign to point east) and was wearing a Blue collar(gave the EA penal sign).  I responded by saying that I had seen him but it had gone from west to east but was on his way back east.  He smiled, I had obviously passed his test we shook hands and I told him if he was ever in Santa fe to come by my lodge.  Never saw that man again.  While at the time it was fun to interact with a brother like that I started thinking about it and in my jurisdictions those signs are only to be given in a lodge or for instruction.  it made me wonder what his jurisdiction says on the subject.


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## Ripcord22A (Sep 1, 2016)

Having just retyped this encounter and having bro @mrpierce17 tell me about his jurisdictions "how to protect your emblem"  It made me realize that I have been tried in public, however it was in good fun and not in a "ima take your crap if you don't pass" kinda way.


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## MRichard (Sep 1, 2016)

jdmadsenCraterlake211 said:


> I respect this Bill and here is where I am going to kinda flip flop on the subject......the token is so that we can know each other in the light as well as the dark.  To me this means in and out of lodge.  As I explained above the token isn't really a secret and gets confused by nonmasons all the time.  If someone sees you shake a hand that's all they are gonna see.  but it lets that man who you just gripped know that a friend and more importantly a Brother is near by should he need you!
> 
> Due Guards, penal signs, words are to be giving in a lodge or for instruction only.  Tokens are our way of IDing ourselves to others.  IMO



The token is definitely a secret, whether someone can see it or not is another issue. Until I sit in lodge with you or you are vouched for by someone I know, then I am not sure if someone is a freemason or not. Dues cards can be counterfeit.


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## Ripcord22A (Sep 1, 2016)

[QUOTE="MRichard, post: 166286, member: 14602" Until I sit in lodge with you or you are vouched for by someone I know, then I am not sure if someone is a freemason or not. Dues cards can be counterfeit.[/QUOTE]
Completely Agree.  I wasn't saying that the Tokens aren't secret I was just saying that in my jurisdictions there is nothing that says they can only be given in secret...IE lodge or instruction.


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## Dontrell Stroman (Sep 1, 2016)

I don't think you were tried from that encounter. I believe and I could be wrong, that the brother was just greeting you in a different way. If a brother greeted me that way, I would have answered it the same way. I believe those questions help identify each other in places were you don't really want to discuss masonry. Example, my wife and I were at a dine in restaurant eating. A gentleman noticed my ring and approached the table and said "Are you travelling man" I said "I Am" he then shook my hand and walked away. My wife said what's that about, I said I guess the brother wanted to see if I have been to other states. She left it at that. As I have stated before, I have seen both PHA and GL masons use this sign in public. I believe it's more of a cultural thing.


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## mrpierce17 (Sep 1, 2016)

MRichard said:


> The token is definitely a secret, whether someone can see it or not is another issue. Until I sit in lodge with you or you are vouched for by someone I know, then I am not sure if someone is a freemason or not. Dues cards can be counterfeit.



I agree wit you that a token is a secret I have been griped many times outside of lodge but only by brothers I know to be such and who knew me as the same ( always covered ) never so the public can see it one could say the GHSOD is also a secret would you expect a brother to use this as well only in a tiled lodge just something to think about and I will also point out the part in the OB Where it says something like knowing them to be such


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## Dontrell Stroman (Sep 1, 2016)

Very well put. That's why lectures on these topic should be given in Lodge meetings, so there's no confusion.


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## Ripcord22A (Sep 1, 2016)

This thread actually led me to email my WM this morning and ask if we had a presentation for this months meeting and if not I had a discussion topic......


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## Dontrell Stroman (Sep 1, 2016)

Good job. Is there something in your by laws or constitution forbidding you from given signss etc ?


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## Ripcord22A (Sep 1, 2016)

the due guards and penal signs and words that accompany them are only to be given in lodge or for instruction.  The tokens are those things that allow brothers to know a fellow bro in darkness and in light.  so those can be given in public, but your not gonna like look at your wife and say "hey watch this" and then go grip a man.  Ive done it when I see a brother with a pin or hat or something and I just walk up and say "hey Brother hows it going?" and extend my hand and give the EA grip.  They usually look you in the eye give a nod nod then you go about your day.


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## JB93 (Sep 1, 2016)

I think you can use your signs in public.. thats how brothers help eachother in need... I helped a brother who was broke down on the side of the road because of his due guard


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## Dontrell Stroman (Sep 1, 2016)

So he was given a  due guard or the GHSD ?


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## Bloke (Sep 1, 2016)

Travelling Man91 said:


> Do you not ever exchange tokens with brothers outside the Lodge ?



"Token" actually appears in our ritual. When I first read the question, I was thinking "gifts" like S&Q pins, but then read on and thought it might be about proving Freemasons - you could read it either way and decided not to respond about gifts because that's not where the thread was going.... but gifts are back on the table.

I have a big pin collection - few have been purchased by me, many mailed to me by American Brothers.. but I always try to keep an Australian or Victorian S&Q or lapel badge in my case to give visitors...  Melbourne Shriners went to CA a few years ago, they purchased or were given heaps of pins ad I got many as gifts. My most treasured one is a small S&Q from PA and a brother I used to talk to often via email and even phone. I sent him the MM pin I was presented in Open Lodge - the one I wear is his...  I wear it more often than I do my apron... its treasured because of the friendship with this brother who I've never met and they way the common bond of Freemasonry brings men together.


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## mrpierce17 (Sep 1, 2016)

Bloke said:


> "Token" actually appears in our ritual. When I first read the question, I was thinking "gifts" like S&Q pins, but then read on and thought it might be about proving Freemasons - you could read it either way and decided not to respond about gifts because that's not where the thread was going.... but gifts are back on the table.
> 
> I have a big pin collection - few have been purchased by me, many mailed to me by American Brothers.. but I always try to keep an Australian or Victorian S&Q or lapel badge in my case to give visitors...  Melbourne Shriners went to CA a few years ago, they purchased or were given heaps of pins ad I got many as gifts. My most treasured one is a small S&Q from PA and a brother I used to talk to often via email and even phone. I sent him the MM pin I was presented in Open Lodge - the one I wear is his...  I wear it more often than I do my apron... its treasured because of the friendship with this brother who I've never met and they way the common bond of Freemasonry brings men together.



I would love to exchange a MWUGLofFL lapel pin for one of yours it would be the firs one I received outside of my jurisdiction and also the first I ever gifted


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## Bill Lins (Sep 1, 2016)

Travelling Man91 said:


> If extremely rare, what is an occasion that you would ?


I wouldn't, but have had others do it. As tokens are modes of recognition, my obligation, as I understand it, prohibits me from displaying them in public. But that's just me- others' mileage may vary.


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## Bill Lins (Sep 1, 2016)

Travelling Man91 said:


> Have you not ever had a brother give you a penal sign outside of the Lodge ?


No, not ever.


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## Brother JC (Sep 2, 2016)

Bill_Lins77488 said:


> As tokens are modes of recognition, my obligation, as I understand it, prohibits me from displaying them in public. But that's just me- others' mileage may vary.



I was taught to give the "two-handed shake" when giving a token in public, blocking it from view.


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## Bloke (Sep 2, 2016)

Brother JC said:


> I was taught to give the "two-handed shake" when giving a token in public, blocking it from view.


"Cover your work" is a Scottish thing in my experience, we don't do it here which always seems weird to the Scots we examine. but it might be an "Ancients" thing and used in the States ?


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## Bloke (Sep 2, 2016)

mrpierce17 said:


> I would love to exchange a MWUGLofFL lapel pin for one of yours it would be the firs one I received outside of my jurisdiction and also the first I ever gifted


It's a slippery slope, because suddenly you're sending pins all over the place. There is some sort of extra cost sending mail into the States for scanning in a post 9/11 word... but I think that's for larger items... I actually owe a few people some mail... I will contact you privately on this...


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## Warrior1256 (Sep 2, 2016)

Travelling Man91 said:


> Have you not ever had a brother give you a penal sign outside of the Lodge ?


Now that I think about it, yes. Once not long after I was raised.


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## Dontrell Stroman (Sep 2, 2016)

Was he a GL mason or PHA mason ?


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## Warrior1256 (Sep 2, 2016)

Travelling Man91 said:


> Was he a GL mason or PHA mason ?


PHA.


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## Dontrell Stroman (Sep 2, 2016)

If you don't mind me asking, what did you do ?


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## Warrior1256 (Sep 2, 2016)

Well, being a brand new MM I returned the sign and we proceeded to talk about Masonry for a minute or two, nothing "secret". He was at his place of employment and was on the clock so we couldn't talk long. I understand now that maybe I was wrong to perform the penal sign (EA) outside of lodge.


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## Dontrell Stroman (Sep 2, 2016)

Why was it wrong ? Does your GL forbid it  ?


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## Warrior1256 (Sep 2, 2016)

Travelling Man91 said:


> Why was it wrong ? Does your GL forbid it  ?


nNot as far as I know but I will be checking. I believe that a Brother on the forum stated that you were not supposed to use the penalty sign outside of lodge. Im only a two year MM and still learning.


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## JB93 (Sep 2, 2016)

If we're going by our obligations on exchanging tokens and signs.. then we must follow the rules all the way through! Remember the cut and carve part?? That Mean we shouldn't be wearing paraphernalia in public..


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## mrpierce17 (Sep 2, 2016)

JB93 said:


> Remember the cut and carve part?? That Mean we shouldn't be wearing paraphernalia in public..



There is one key word in that ( secret ) nothing secret about displaying them


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## Brother JC (Sep 2, 2016)

JB93 said:


> If we're going by our obligations on exchanging tokens and signs.. then we must follow the rules all the way through! Remember the cut and carve part?? That Mean we shouldn't be wearing paraphernalia in public..



That part is about the written word, it says nothing of the symbols. If it did, every lodge, grand lodge, and temple would be in violation, what with a big S&C on the building, not to mention all those posters of the symbols of each degree inside.


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## Dontrell Stroman (Sep 2, 2016)

Where does it say you can't use a penal sign in public ? I have yet to see it. I have looked though all my material and I can't find it.


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## Dontrell Stroman (Sep 2, 2016)

The best thing to do is check with your jurisdiction. I have never been told it was  to only be used in a tyled lodge. New to me


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## MRichard (Sep 2, 2016)

Travelling Man91 said:


> Where does it say you can't use a penal sign in public ? I have yet to see it. I have looked though all my material and I can't find it.



Why would there ever be a need to use the penal sign outside of lodge?


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## Glen Cook (Sep 3, 2016)

JB93 said:


> If we're going by our obligations on exchanging tokens and signs.. then we must follow the rules all the way through! Remember the cut and carve part?? That Mean we shouldn't be wearing paraphernalia in public..


Only if you're wearing paraphernalia with Masonic secrets on it, then yeah, that's a problem.


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## JB93 (Sep 3, 2016)

The square and compass is a secret. We all have pictures on social media in our regalia which our secrets are carved on it. Some lodges have pictures inside their temple. We violated on a lot when it comes down to those obligations! Especially the pluck your heart out etc. I have witness plenty violations and Ive yet seen a man suffer consequences for his actions lol.. my point is we dont follow our obligations and our obligation was written in ancient times... I dont know any fraternity that broadcast their information but we all should be able to use certain things in public when it comes down to recognizing another brother... plus its fun to greet on a masonic level..and no one knows what's going on.. Even though I rarely catch on to catechisms.. I like them. Kind of entertaining lol


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## Bloke (Sep 3, 2016)

JB93 said:


> The square and compass is a secret....



Not in my world. The only secrets are how we recognized each other...


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## MRichard (Sep 3, 2016)

JB93 said:


> The square and compass is a secret.



Not sure what jurisdiction you belong to, but the Square and Compasses are not a secret. No need to go any further.


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## MRichard (Sep 3, 2016)

JB93 said:


> The square and compass is a secret. We all have pictures on social media in our regalia which our secrets are carved on it. Some lodges have pictures inside their temple. We violated on a lot when it comes down to those obligations! Especially the pluck your heart out etc. I have witness plenty violations and Ive yet seen a man suffer consequences for his actions lol.. my point is we dont follow our obligations and our obligation was written in ancient times... I dont know any fraternity that broadcast their information but we all should be able to use certain things in public when it comes down to recognizing another brother... plus its fun to greet on a masonic level..and no one knows what's going on.. Even though I rarely catch on to catechisms.. I like them. Kind of entertaining lol



Were you ever healed? Didn't you belong to a clandestine lodge?


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## Glen Cook (Sep 3, 2016)

JB93 said:


> The square and compass is a secret. We all have pictures on social media in our regalia which our secrets are carved on it. Some lodges have pictures inside their temple. We violated on a lot when it comes down to those obligations! Especially the pluck your heart out etc. I have witness plenty violations and Ive yet seen a man suffer consequences for his actions lol.. my point is we dont follow our obligations and our obligation was written in ancient times... I dont know any fraternity that broadcast their information but we all should be able to use certain things in public when it comes down to recognizing another brother... plus its fun to greet on a masonic level..and no one knows what's going on.. Even though I rarely catch on to catechisms.. I like them. Kind of entertaining lol


May I ask of what GL you are a member? Treating the S&C as a secret, as compared to the interpretation thereof, is an  unknown concept to me and I am familiar with the usual positions of CGMNA GLs.  It would appear we are confusing  the symbol for the thing symbolized.


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## Dontrell Stroman (Sep 3, 2016)

It's a sign of recognition. If me and another mason give each other the sign, we are acknowledging the same thing as walking up and saying "I'm a mason"  I'm here if you need me. I have seen the sign given when two brother could not talk.


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## JB93 (Sep 3, 2016)

Yes I WAS a clanny and I was healed in the GLOG PHA. 
I hate to post this from our obligation but 


I will not print, paint, stamp, stain, cut, 
carve, mark, or engrave them, or cause the same to be done, on any thing movable or 
immovable 
... Do you guys know what immovable mean or no??


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## JB93 (Sep 3, 2016)

Or I could be wrong.. remind you I am still young and learning! Take it easy on me and enlighten me if I am wrong. I am no longer a clanny.. well I am no longer a SUPER clanny because Phaga not recognized yet


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## Glen Cook (Sep 3, 2016)

JB93 said:


> Yes I WAS a clanny and I was healed in the GLOG PHA.
> I hate to post this from our obligation but
> 
> 
> ...



You do realize that in many jurisdictions you just violated your ob.by writing those words?  

Yes, son, I know what the word means.  The issue here is what we are writing, not what we are writing it on.  We are not to write the secrets.  The symbol itself is not a secret. The meaning of the symbol may be a secret.  I am wearing a ring now authorized  by the statutes of my order. .  I won't tell uou the meaning of  the ring as you are not a member of that order. That does not mean you cannot see the ring. To  the contrary, as I am allowed to wear the ring in a specific manner, it is expected you will see it.. 

I commend your move to regular Freemasonry  and the courage it took.   However, it appears you still rely upon some of your clandestine knowledge which, I'm afraid is error.


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## Glen Cook (Sep 3, 2016)

JB93 said:


> Or I could be wrong.. remind you I am still young and learning! Take it easy on me and enlighten me if I am wrong. I am no longer a clanny.. well I am no longer a SUPER clanny because Phaga not recognized yet


GA PHA is regular, just not fully recognized.  There is a problem as it is reported that it maintains Masonic relations with the grand Lodge of France, a clandestine Grand Lodge. If correct, this could be problematic in the future


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## Warrior1256 (Sep 3, 2016)

mrpierce17 said:


> There is one key word in that ( secret ) nothing secret about displaying them


Agreed! If a Masonic lodge can publically display the Square and Compasses, a Commandery display the Cross and Crown, the Scottish Rite display the Double Headed Eagle then surely I can wear these emblems on my person.


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## mrpierce17 (Sep 3, 2016)

JB93 said:


> Yes I WAS a clanny and I was healed in the GLOG PHA.
> I hate to post this from our obligation but
> 
> 
> ...



As I have stated before there's a key word before all of this also read a line or two before before witch should put things into perspective  

what is them is it sylla....or symbols ???


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## Warrior1256 (Sep 3, 2016)

Glen Cook said:


> You do realize that in many jurisdictions you just violated your ob.by writing those words?


It certainly is in my jurisdiction.


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## mrpierce17 (Sep 3, 2016)

Glen Cook said:


> You do realize that in many jurisdictions you just violated your ob.by writing those words?
> 
> Yes, son, .


This is kinda disrespectful remember we are all Mason's and meet on the level regardless of age 




Glen Cook said:


> There is a problem as it is reported that it maintains Masonic relations with the grand Lodge of France, a clandestine Grand Lodge. If correct, this could be problematic in the future



IMO this is being used as a crutch in some jurisdictions PHA  GL's could easily withdraw recognition from GLOF  why burn bridges when no one is trying to replace them and I get the whole connecting of the dots theory but has GLofGA  sent correspondence stating MWPHGLofGA needs to do this or are both sides just happy with the way things are not being in amity with one another ?


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## JB93 (Sep 3, 2016)

So its nothing secret about exchanging signs in public then right? The meaning of the sign may be a secret. But the sign itself is okay to display?? Or The signs are secrets point blank period?


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## JB93 (Sep 3, 2016)

mrpierce17 said:


> and


I was being disrespectful?? If so I apologize


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## mrpierce17 (Sep 3, 2016)

JB93 said:


> So its nothing secret about exchanging signs in public then right? The meaning of the sign may be a secret. But the sign itself is okay to display?? Or The signs are secrets point blank period?



Who would know what you where doing unless they where a Mason themselves I have never seen someone give a DG accompanied by a sign or step in any order outside lodge its pointless try it in lodge and see if you don't get called out for it


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## JB93 (Sep 3, 2016)

mrpierce17 said:


> Who would know what you where doing unless they where a Mason themselves I have never seen someone give a DG accompanied by a sign or step in any order outside lodge its pointless try it in lodge and see if you don't get called out for it


Yea you right bro


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## Glen Cook (Sep 3, 2016)

mrpierce17 said:


> This is kinda disrespectful remember we are all Mason's and meet on the level regardless of age
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It was not meant as such. Rather, I was pointing out the irony of his public use of secret ritual language to prove that symbols are secret. A bit of irony, isn't it?  

I've not heard that GA is tuned into the issue nor  did I assert that was the current issue. I quite agree that  bigotry is the basis for the separation in that Grand Lodge


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## mrpierce17 (Sep 3, 2016)

Glen Cook said:


> It was not meant as such. Rather, I was pointing out the irony of his public use of secret ritual language to prove that symbols are secret. A bit of irony, isn't it?
> 
> I've not heard that GA is tuned into the issue nor  did I assert that was the current issue. I quite agree that  bigotry is the basis for the separation in that Grand Lodge



Oh ok got it


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## JB93 (Sep 3, 2016)

mrpierce17 said:


> Oh ok got it





Glen Cook said:


> It was not meant as such. Rather, I was pointing out the irony of his public use of secret ritual language to prove that symbols are secret. A bit of irony, isn't it?
> 
> I've not heard that GA is tuned into the issue nor  did I assert that was the current issue. I quite agree that  bigotry is the basis for the separation in that Grand Lodge[/QUOTE
> 
> ...


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## Brother JC (Sep 3, 2016)

And I reiterate; my obligation says nothing about symbols.


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## JB93 (Sep 3, 2016)

Brother JC said:


> And I reiterate; my obligation says nothing about symbols.


You know what movable and immovable mean?


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## mrpierce17 (Sep 3, 2016)

Movable body, car ,chair etc 
Immovable tree, mountain ,building etc


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## JB93 (Sep 3, 2016)

Brother JC said:


> And I reiterate; my obligation says nothing about symbols.


And our obligation doesn


mrpierce17 said:


> Movable body, car ,chair etc
> Immovable tree, mountain ,building etc


Lol correct


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## mrpierce17 (Sep 3, 2016)

Glen Cook said:


> I quite agree that  bigotry is the basis for the separation in that Grand Lodge



I could be wrong but I think the real issue is y'all GLofState Mason's don't won't us to know what y'all are putting in that spaghetti and we don't won't to give up the secret recipe to the fish seasoning IJS


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## JB93 (Sep 3, 2016)

mrpierce17 said:


> I could be wrong but I think the real issue is y'all GLofState Mason's don't won't us to know what y'all are putting in that spaghetti and we don't won't to give up the secret recipe to the fish seasoning IJS


We should have one big regular meeting in usa! State and PHA  Its time for a change !


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## mrpierce17 (Sep 3, 2016)

JB93 said:


> We should have one big regular meeting in usa! State and PHA  Its time for a change !



Change is long overdue it will happen eventually I have faith in the order


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## JB93 (Sep 3, 2016)

mrpierce17 said:


> Change is long overdue it will happen eventually I have faith in the order






mrpierce17 said:


> Change is long overdue it will happen eventually I have faith in the order




After I say this I am done with this thread but I think pha and state should have a grand gathering ceremony basically fraternizing and coming up with new ideas etc every two years! We should share a charity event every two years and we should have a state party every two years to meet n greet! All these events should take place every two years! Should be mandatory but hey Its ok to have imagination i guess


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## Glen Cook (Sep 3, 2016)

mrpierce17 said:


> I could be wrong but I think the real issue is y'all GLofState Mason's don't won't us to know what y'all are putting in that spaghetti and we don't won't to give up the secret recipe to the fish seasoning IJS


Maybe down where you are, but in Utah we have a Masonic Family Picnic with our PHA brethren every year.  PHA meet in GLUT buildings.


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## mrpierce17 (Sep 3, 2016)

Glen Cook said:


> Maybe down where you are, but in Utah we have a Masonic Family Picnic with our PHA brethren every year.  PHA meet in GLUT buildings.



That's awesome


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## Glen Cook (Sep 3, 2016)

mrpierce17 said:


> That's awesome


I was one of the installing potentates for a dual installation of our two Shrines this year. PHA COL attends the UT GL and speaks. 
I knew some of the PHA brothers before I was a Mason through the NAACP Board. Sadly, I think they've all passed now.


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## Ripcord22A (Sep 3, 2016)

Ur whole cut carve thing is about revealing secrets.  A due guard is secret as it would allow a profane to be thought of as a mason. And therefore get masonic secrets.  The s&c is not

Sent from my LG-H811 using My Freemasonry Pro mobile app


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## Brother JC (Sep 3, 2016)

JB93 said:


> You know what movable and immovable mean?



Yes, and it still doesn't allude to symbols, merely the items upon which one would write, etc.
It refers to the words, the words we learn from our mentor's mouth. The symbols mean nothing, or at least something else, to the profane. I had squares hanging all over my woodshop, but unless you were a Brother, they were just tools I used in my job.
Search the forum for "tattoos" and you will see this horse was beaten to death long ago.


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## Glen Cook (Sep 3, 2016)

JB93 said:


> You know what movable and immovable mean?


Immovable is me before the morning ibuprofen


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## mrpierce17 (Sep 3, 2016)

Glen Cook said:


> Immovable is me before the morning ibuprofen


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## JB93 (Sep 3, 2016)

good bye.. see yall on another subject


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## Bill Lins (Sep 3, 2016)

JB93 said:


> Or I could be wrong.. remind you I am still young and learning!


YOU should remember that, and learn to ask questions and qualify what you post rather than make declarative statements that are incorrect.


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## Bloke (Sep 3, 2016)

JB93 said:


> So its nothing secret about exchanging signs in public then right? The meaning of the sign may be a secret. But the sign itself is okay to display?? Or The signs are secrets point blank period?



Depends on what you define as "signs" for me, they are the "secrets" taught in lodge to show another Freemason you are a Freemason, consisting of masonic signs (salutes), grips and tokens....

It is always  better to err on the side of caution on these things.. we have the same sort of obligation you do, about not carve, mark, etc etc and the words movable and immovable .. but out obligations here are interpreted within a pretty open culture... I only have to worry about two things around this 1. my conscious and 2. holding my secrets so as to remain in good standing.. I would type me whole obligation out with a couple of blanks and still be on safe group, but I am a comparability old war horse on these thing who have had some "quality chats" with GMs about some of my writings -


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## Bill Lins (Sep 3, 2016)

Glen Cook said:


> Immovable is me before the morning ibuprofen


For "experienced" Master Masons, the Word is "Mo-Trin"!


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## JB93 (Sep 4, 2016)

Bill_Lins77488 said:


> YOU should remember that, and learn to ask questions and qualify what you post rather than make declarative statements that are incorrect.


No actually I am not wrong. My statements are far from incorrect. I just dont feel like going back and forward.


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## MarkR (Sep 4, 2016)

JB93 said:


> No actually I am not wrong. My statements are far from incorrect. I just dont feel like going back and forward.


I won't say you're wrong, because I don't know the rules of your jurisdiction.  I will say that the Minnesota Masonic Manual clearly makes the symbols monitorial, meaning NOT secret.  

I am always amazed at how many people can quote part of the EA obligation, but just don't understand what it is saying, because you left out the last part of that phrase , the part that says "whereby."  It's only a violation to do any of those things if they result in revealing the secrets.  And I don't know of any jurisdiction that treats the S&C, in and of itself, as a secret, now or in the past.


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## Dontrell Stroman (Sep 4, 2016)

That's what I'm getting at. The signs are for recognition


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## Warrior1256 (Sep 4, 2016)

Brother JC said:


> Yes, and it still doesn't allude to symbols, merely the items upon which one would write, etc.
> It refers to the words, the words we learn from our mentor's mouth. The symbols mean nothing, or at least something else, to the profane. I had squares hanging all over my woodshop, but unless you were a Brother, they were just tools I used in my job.
> Search the forum for "tattoos" and you will see this horse was beaten to death long ago.


Exactly, plus the symbols can mean different things in various circumstances.


Glen Cook said:


> Immovable is me before the morning ibuprofen


Lol...naproxen for me.


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## dfreybur (Sep 4, 2016)

When I heard moveable I understood it referred to a printing press, versus carving into or writing on a fixed wall.


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## Bill Lins (Sep 4, 2016)

JB93 stated "No actually I am not wrong. My statements are far from incorrect. I just dont feel like going back and forward."
Your statements may be correct _*in your own jurisdiction.*_ My point is that you tend to make blanket statements that are demonstrably incorrect in others.


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## Warrior1256 (Sep 4, 2016)

Bill_Lins77488 said:


> JB93 stated "No actually I am not wrong. My statements are far from incorrect. I just dont feel like going back and forward."
> Your statements may be correct _*in your own jurisdiction.*_ My point is that you tend to make blanket statements that are demonstrably incorrect in others.


Agreed.


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## Bloke (Sep 4, 2016)

Bill_Lins77488 said:


> JB93 stated "No actually I am not wrong. My statements are far from incorrect. I just dont feel like going back and forward."
> Your statements may be correct _*in your own jurisdiction.*_ My point is that you tend to make blanket statements that are demonstrably incorrect in others.



It's why i'm often  saying " here" in my posts to make it clear/remind that my statements are not blanket


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## JB93 (Sep 4, 2016)

I never said we couldn't wear our S&C.  Someone said we shouldnt use signs in public to get attention from another mason because our obligation stats we shouldn't use our signs in public, which it does not say we cant use our signs to flag another brother. My point is if you are going to use our obligation to justify certain behavior, then apply it for everything.. no matter what yall are saying. A immovable object is what it is and I see masons publicly wearing it.. to sum up what I am saying. IM BASICALLY PROVING MY POINT THAT WE CAN USE SIGNS IN PUBLIC TO ANOTHER BROTHER. But thanks to everyone for clearing up the difference in jurisdictions. I understand now


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## Ripcord22A (Sep 4, 2016)

JB93 said:


> . A immovable object is what it is and I see masons publicly wearing it..


I see where your confusion is now brother.  You are confusing the movable and immovable furniture of the lodge and a movable or immovable object.  


Sent from my LG-H811 using My Freemasonry Pro mobile app


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## JB93 (Sep 5, 2016)

jdmadsenCraterlake211 said:


> I see where your confusion is now brother.  You are confusing the movable and immovable furniture of the lodge and a movable or immovable object.
> 
> 
> Sent from my LG-H811 using My Freemasonry Pro mobile app


Correct bro. Everything is clear on my end now. You cant learn if you dont speak right lol


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## Ripcord22A (Sep 5, 2016)

Alright so you now understand that an immovable object as reffered to in the obligation is like a building or tree and a movable is like a notebook

Sent from my LG-H811 using My Freemasonry Pro mobile app


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## Warrior1256 (Sep 5, 2016)

JB93 said:


> Correct bro. Everything is clear on my end now. You cant learn if you dont speak right lol


With my track record I'm certainly not going to be critical of someone for getting confused, lol.


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## Ripcord22A (Sep 12, 2016)

A few days ago I posted a Picture of a couple Tshirts one of which I had purchased, They are from a line called "not So secret Society" from a brand by the name of Stead Fast Brand.  on Saturday evening I saw a young man wearing the Tank top version of the one I bought at the Gym.  Being that there is only 2 lodges here in town and I know most of the Younger Members, I was fairly certain he wasn't a Freemason.  In between sets I approached him and asked if he was a Freemason.  he looked at me kinda silly and I told him the reason why I asked was because of his shirt.  He pointed to a triangle with the "All seeing Eye" and said "Cause of this?" I said "no, the Square and Compasses.  Im a freemason and it caught my eye and I actually just bought the Tshirt version yesterday." he then said "Oh no Im not  a freemason I just thought it looked cool" to which I replied "oh alright Cool man, have a good rest of your workout"

Another time I was paying for a haircut at a local Babershop here and I picked up the barbers business cards and on them the straight razor and scissors were placed to look like the S&C, I was new to town and still looking for brothers, so I asked if he was a Mason at first he said yes and after talking to him and some of his answers to my questions had us both confused I realized that he thought I was talking about Operative Masons.  His whole family are Stone workers.

Neither time did I chastise either of these men or try to "take their Light"  and ya know why?  because as Freemasons we are taught to constantly chip away at our rough edges and by getting upset at someone for wearing or using a symbol that is not copy righted and trying to take someones property surly isn't masonic.


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## Warrior1256 (Sep 12, 2016)

jdmadsenCraterlake211 said:


> Neither time did I chastise either of these men or try to "take their Light" and ya know why? because as Freemasons we are taught to constantly chip away at our rough edges and by getting upset at someone for wearing or using a symbol that is not copy righted and trying to take someones property surly isn't masonic.


Agreed! Not too long ago I saw a young man wearing a wind breaker with the S & C. I introduced myself and asked what lodge he belonged to. He didn't understand what I was talking about. I explained and he informed me that the jacket belonged to a friend of his and that he was not a Mason. I then told him to have a nice day. I wondered if the friend that he borrowed the jacket from was a Freemason, and, if so, why he would let a non-Mason wear his jacket.


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## Bloke (Sep 12, 2016)

jdmadsenCraterlake211 said:


> A few days ago I posted a Picture of a couple Tshirts one of which I had purchased, They are from a line called "not So secret Society" from a brand by the name of Stead Fast Brand.  on Saturday evening I saw a young man wearing the Tank top version of the one I bought at the Gym.  Being that there is only 2 lodges here in town and I know most of the Younger Members, I was fairly certain he wasn't a Freemason.  In between sets I approached him and asked if he was a Freemason.  he looked at me kinda silly and I told him the reason why I asked was because of his shirt.  He pointed to a triangle with the "All seeing Eye" and said "Cause of this?" I said "no, the Square and Compasses.  Im a freemason and it caught my eye and I actually just bought the Tshirt version yesterday." he then said "Oh no Im not  a freemason I just thought it looked cool" to which I replied "oh alright Cool man, have a good rest of your workout"
> 
> Another time I was paying for a haircut at a local Babershop here and I picked up the barbers business cards and on them the straight razor and scissors were placed to look like the S&C, I was new to town and still looking for brothers, so I asked if he was a Mason at first he said yes and after talking to him and some of his answers to my questions had us both confused I realized that he thought I was talking about Operative Masons.  His whole family are Stone workers.
> 
> Neither time did I chastise either of these men or try to "take their Light"  and ya know why?  because as Freemasons we are taught to constantly chip away at our rough edges and by getting upset at someone for wearing or using a symbol that is not copy righted and trying to take someones property surly isn't masonic.



Good reactions Warrior and JD- you can image the impression "taking their Light" would make - it would make us appear like a street gang. I've had a similar experience with the business logo. Such situations are actually a "selling" opportunity; even if they seem not interested "That's the main symbol of one of the oldest and largest fraternities in the world called the Freemasons. There is  a lot of rubbish conspiracy theories about them, but I'm a member and  if you every want an overview of them, the wikipedia article is not bad, when it has not been vandalized.." The conversation will either end of continue but at least you plant the seed to look them up.


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## Warrior1256 (Sep 13, 2016)

Bloke said:


> you can image the impression "taking their Light" would make - it would make us appear like a street gang.


I would never attempt to do this because if the other guy was anything like me I would probably get hurt!


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