# Short form or long form?



## rebis

Hello brothers, here on the left coast, a candidate can chose to do his proficiency for EA and FC in short form. Which means only the obligation.

After only repeating the obligation, he would advance to the next degree.

To me this does not seam fair and just to all brothers that worked hard at their "long form" proficiencies.

Why should a candidate that worked at less than half the proficiency get the same honor and distinction as all other candidates that put in day after day of work to get the entire proficiency down?



My Freemasonry


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## scw538

Long form is the only way to go in my op.  I put in tons of hours and enjoyed all of them. It makes you respect each degree more when you know what that brother has done to get to each new step. 


My Freemasonry


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## crono782

The "short form" sounds like a completely tragic neutering of the craft IMO. I can't understand taking the Masonry out of Freemasonry by taking out the need to actually learn the meaning of the degree and boiling it down to a few short paragraphs. Just terrible. 


My Freemasonry


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## JJones

There are so many lessons to be learned from the long form that it'd be a shame not to have to learn it.


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## jmiluso

I also feel that the longform is the correct form to use when giving your degree. I know that I would not have learned as much if I had done the short form return, part of masonry is to learn and be patient. If you do the short form you're not really given a chance to understand what was just done with you. 


My Freemasonry


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## Starr

How do you feel about the idea of the one day class?  I personally don't understand why anyone would allow it.  I feel it takes away from all the learning. 


My Freemasonry


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## rebis

Starr said:


> How do you feel about the idea of the one day class?  I personally don't understand why anyone would allow it.  I feel it takes away from all the learning.
> 
> 
> My Freemasonry



Freemasonry is getting hacked left and right.
Short form...one day classes...opening each stated meeting on the first degree...etc

To me it is indicative that GL wants to hurry everybody through the degrees to get the candidates to pay dues ASAP assuring revenue streams.


My Freemasonry


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## Brother JC

I'm not sure how opening on the first can be considered a "hack." It actually increases the skills of the officers (they must learn three opening and closing rituals in NM), and it keeps new members in the fold. I was glad I could attend meetings as soon as I was Initiated.


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## JJones

Actually, stated meetings used to always be opened in the first but it was changed like 150 years ago or so.  There's a good article on this somewhere on the net I'll try to dig up sometime when I'm home.  My point though, is that allowing meetings to be opened on the first is more a return to the old ways.


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## bezobrazan

I did all mine long form & I'm glad I did.  Whether short or long, they should be said with conviction. 


A true man learns to soften his heart and stiffen his spine.


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## dfreybur

JJones said:


> Actually, stated meetings used to always be opened in the first but it was changed like 150 years ago or so.  There's a good article on this somewhere on the net I'll try to dig up sometime when I'm home.  My point though, is that allowing meetings to be opened on the first is more a return to the old ways.



Outside of North America there never was the switch to Stated meetings in the third degree in the first place.  For that matter there never was a time when EAs weren't charged dues or weren't allowed a vote at Stated meetings.  Correcting back towards the world-wide standard was absolutely not a "hack".

That leads me to wonder about proficiencies as well.  A reference to real history might well be equally educational.  Are complaints about reduced standard equally ignorant of history and world wide standards?  What are the history and world wide standards with regards to proficiencies?

I've read references to the brethren instructing a candidate privately.  This sounds like teaching even less than the wording of the obligation.  I've also read of requiring a candidate to present a research paper before advancing.  This sounds very different from but a similar amount of work as the long form.

I didn't even consider the short form for my proficiencies.  But by the time I got to learning the Master's lecture for the third degree I didn't even consider the long form of it when I was qualifying to take the east the first time around.  All things are relative.


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## Warrior1256

We have to do the long form in Kentucky as fas as I know.


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## jwhoff

JJones said:


> Actually, stated meetings used to always be opened in the first but it was changed like 150 years ago or so.  There's a good article on this somewhere on the net I'll try to dig up sometime when I'm home.  My point though, is that allowing meetings to be opened on the first is more a return to the old ways.



Yes, probably the biggest thing that came out of the 1846 meeting between grand jurisdictions in the United States.  Yes, most grand lodges did open in the EA.


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## GKA

I think this experiment between long and short form should be concluded.
Those whom I have witnessed who took the short form are nowhere around, they do not attend Lodge, nor are they in the officer corps
It appears to be the distinction between those who join for themselves and those who join to be part of.
Long form rules.


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## Glen Cook

In the UGLE, the candidate answers about 11 questions, with the deacon there by his side to assist.

As for one day classes, in Scotland the _two _degrees were confirmed at the same time. Stephenson, _The First Freemasons_.


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## LAMason

GKA said:


> short form



Are you talking about one day classes or some other abbreviated format?  Does California have one day classes and if so in what circumstances are the allowed?


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## GKA

LAMason said:


> Are you talking about one day classes or some other abbreviated format?  Does California have one day classes and if so in what circumstances are the allowed?


Short form proficiency


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## dfreybur

LAMason said:


> Are you talking about one day classes or some other abbreviated format?



This particular thread is about lectures or other ritual that have optional forms.  Examples in California ritual - There is an optional long form closing that replays all of the parts of the opening, as well as the more common short for that takes about half as long.  There long and short forms of the apron presentation lecture available in California.  There is an optional extension of the third degree lecture that adds several paragraphs.



> Does California have one day classes and if so in what circumstances are the allowed?



When I was still in California (I left in 2000) about once per year the GM declared "all the way in one day" classes.  They generally included either SR or YR appendent body degrees as well.  I don't know if those are still conducted with any regularity in California.  I have not seen mention of any such classes in the quarterly California Freemason magazine for a number of years.


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## Michael Burke

rebis said:


> Hello brothers, here on the left coast, a candidate can chose to do his proficiency for EA and FC in short form. Which means only the obligation.
> 
> After only repeating the obligation, he would advance to the next degree.
> 
> To me this does not seam fair and just to all brothers that worked hard at their "long form" proficiencies.
> 
> Why should a candidate that worked at less than half the proficiency get the same honor and distinction as all other candidates that put in day after day of work to get the entire proficiency down?
> 
> 
> 
> My Freemasonry


I went through the degrees in a lodge that only performed the short versions.  I have recently become attached to a Nevada lodge that uses the long version.  I have found the long version to be quite repetitious and in my opinion is unecesary.

The lessons are sound in both forms, and in our fast paced, overworked society the long form can be quite a time burden for a new young applicant with a family and other life distractions.  Perhaps that is why some lodge memberships have stagnated or dwindled.

I believe that we as Masons must represent the cement that holds use together,  and by being the best example of Free Masonry,  our new members will learn by our examples regardless of weather we use the short or long form.


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## HerrickMusic

I'm a music teacher and people remember best with repetition, not only with learning music but with everything we do.... We get better with everything when its repeated!  Well that is just my thoughts only so I say long form....


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## Brother JC

"Practice makes permanent."


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## Bloke

Brother JC said:


> "Practice makes permanent."



I like it ! I am going to use that when mentoring


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## TXStrat

In the word of my instructor, "again."


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## Warrior1256

TXStrat said:


> In the word of my instructor, "again."


Yep. In all three i went over it over and over and over.......


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## Overworked724

Me too....over and over and over and over...and over...and over and over and over....LOL  I am horrible at memorization, but once it is there, it's there to stay.


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## Thomas Stright

Short form or one day class... Why even bother?
IMHO it means nothing when given to you.


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## Bro. Stewart P.M.

Thomas Stright said:


> Short form or one day class... Why even bother?
> IMHO it means nothing when given to you.



Yes my Brother, as I would agree with you. However, there are those who like the ideology of the ready made Mason.

It seems this is yet another warmly debated topic of discussion.


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## Warrior1256

Thomas Stright said:


> Short form or one day class... Why even bother?


I can not agree Brother. We do a two or three day reunion of the AASR when we bring in new members (I was one of these) and we are very loyal members. I will be helping in my fourth reunion as a member in 7 days.


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## dfreybur

Thomas Stright said:


> Short form or one day class... Why even bother?
> IMHO it means nothing when given to you.



Because now that I've been through my own degrees, degrees are now about the candidate not about me.  It's a very hard lesson to learn.

The fact that it means less to you is not relevant.  It's not about you just like it's not about me.

I am gratified with the trend preferring individual degrees, but those degrees are not about me just like they are not about you.

The only objective way to judge is attendance and chances of going through the line.  The studies on that are done by Brothers determined to reach specific conclusions one way or the other.  The studies fail to prove those conclusions.  It's an important result.

So far I've only seen one set of studies that gives a consistent answer.  Illinois conducts "blue lightning" degree events.  All of the candidates at least got their first degree individually at lodge.  The events do second and third in groups rather like the way Scottish Rite degrees are conferred.  Again and again the statistics keep coming out that Brothers who go through blue lightning events are more likely to go through the line.  The studies keep getting done because so few believe the result.  I have no idea why this happens.  I do understand why people don't believe it - Your post shows that.


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## LK600

dfreybur said:


> The studies keep getting done because so few believe the result. I have no idea why this happens.



Could it be that their ability to participate in the Lodge quicker reinforces the feeling of belonging while others who wait 6 months to a year to be allowed to participate in most things find themselves more jaded?  I have no idea... just a thought.


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## Warrior1256

LK600 said:


> Could it be that their ability to participate in the Lodge quicker reinforces the feeling of belonging while others who wait 6 months to a year to be allowed to participate in most things find themselves more jaded? I have no idea... just a thought.


Your thought makes a lot of sense Brother.


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## Thomas Stright

dfreybur said:


> I do understand why people don't believe it - Your post shows that.



Like I said.... In My Honest Opinion. 

I know it's all about the one taking the degree, I just wouldn't feel right participating in a degree that I know is a short cut.
That to me would be a dis-service to the candidate.


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## LK600

Thomas Stright said:


> Like I said.... In My Honest Opinion.
> 
> I know it's all about the one taking the degree, I just wouldn't feel right participating in a degree that I know is a short cut.
> That to me would be a dis-service to the candidate.


Which is why I have not done so for myself.


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## goomba

Long form or short form are relative for each grand lodge.  If the option even exist.  What one grand lodge might consider long and the "right" way might be short to another grand lodge.  Learning a string of questions and answers, for most Masons I've seen, teaches them nothing but how to mimic sound.  You can find different examples of different advancement requirements across the globe.  You can also find various ways to deliver the degrees throughout our history.

I was raised in Alabama.  The only option for degrees is one at a time with one candidate at a time.  You then must turn in an EA and FC Q&A.  The MM is optional.  None of this is written down.  Then if you want to be active you must learn the ritual.  Again nothing is written down.  Within a year I easily able to travel and assist with various parts in each of the three degrees.

But there is a problem with focusing on just learning words and only mimicking sound.  The problem is you can be replaced with Duncan.  If the only thing transmitted are the words then a book is just better at it than we are.  What is better is understanding of the words.  Not just know them but knowing what they mean.  

I remember hearing a story one time about this man who truly believed what our craft teaches.  He was willing to follow those teachings his entire life.  Tragedy his life was cut short by someone who wanted to know words without know what those words meant.  I fear the spirit of those people just wanting to know words are responsible for the fate of our craft now.  The words are they important, yes.  But the meaning that is worth dying for.


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## goomba

dfreybur said:


> Because now that I've been through my own degrees, degrees are now about the candidate not about me.  It's a very hard lesson to learn.
> 
> The fact that it means less to you is not relevant.  It's not about you just like it's not about me.
> 
> I am gratified with the trend preferring individual degrees, but those degrees are not about me just like they are not about you.
> 
> The only objective way to judge is attendance and chances of going through the line.  The studies on that are done by Brothers determined to reach specific conclusions one way or the other.  The studies fail to prove those conclusions.  It's an important result.
> 
> So far I've only seen one set of studies that gives a consistent answer.  Illinois conducts "blue lightning" degree events.  All of the candidates at least got their first degree individually at lodge.  The events do second and third in groups rather like the way Scottish Rite degrees are conferred.  Again and again the statistics keep coming out that Brothers who go through blue lightning events are more likely to go through the line.  The studies keep getting done because so few believe the result.  I have no idea why this happens.  I do understand why people don't believe it - Your post shows that.



I could be completely off base, but the IL results make sense to me.  I have always believed the EA degree is the most important degree in all of Freemasonry.  I believe every teaching in the FC and MM degree are contained within the EA degree.  I would love to see those studies!


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## jermy Bell

rebis said:


> Freemasonry is getting hacked left and right.
> Short form...one day classes...opening each stated meeting on the first degree...etc
> 
> To me it is indicative that GL wants to hurry everybody through the degrees to get the candidates to pay dues ASAP assuring revenue streams.
> 
> 
> My Freemasonry


As much as I love long boring business meetings,  my home lodge opens and closes on the 1,2,3. It' fine to a point, but when you have a ton to get through besides paying bills, this can be a pain. If you have an EA, open on the 1st. If all a MM, open and close on that and move along.


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