# Head Covered



## Papatom (Nov 15, 2010)

How can a Muslum sit in the east wearing a turban?


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## Blake Bowden (Nov 15, 2010)

Papatom said:
			
		

> How can a Muslum sit in the east wearing a turban?



I don't see why not.


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## JohnnyFlotsam (Nov 15, 2010)

Why do you ask?
BTW, in general, "Muslims" don't wear turbans. They are not required to wear any particular headgear. Perhaps you were thinking of members of the Sikh faith?


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## coachn (Nov 15, 2010)

Papatom said:


> How can a Muslum sit in the east wearing a turban?


Just a wildly uninformed guess:  Just like any other person would sit in the East wearing a turban.


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## JTM (Nov 15, 2010)

i thought in texas it had to be a full brimmed hat.



JohnnyFlotsam said:


> Why do you ask?
> BTW, in general, "Muslims"  don't wear turbans. They are not required to wear any particular  headgear. Perhaps you were thinking of members of the Sikh  faith?



while not required, they are popular in the middle east, northeast african, and southwest asia... the sikh "turban" is a very specific kind of turban (actually a Dastar)


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## Bro. Stewart P.M. (Nov 15, 2010)

I am with JTM on this one, I also was under the impression (at least in Texas) that the hat has to have a full brim.


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## ShadyGrove821 (Nov 15, 2010)

It is my understanding that Sikhs never wear any headgear on top of their turbans. If a Sikh Mason were to be elected Master of a Texas Lodge, I would hope that the Grand Master would grant dispensation for him to preside wearing his turban only.


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## Bill Lins (Nov 16, 2010)

Bro. Stewart said:


> I am with JTM on this one, I also was under the impression (at least in Texas) that the hat has to have a full brim.


 
Art. 278. (New). Master Presiding “Covered.” 

The ancient custom of the Master presiding “covered” must be complied with, except that the Brother presiding at Masonic funerals, memorial services, graveside services or during open meetings of the Lodge, may at his discretion, preside over such services and ceremonies uncovered. To be “covered” shall mean the wearing of a hat, and a hat is described as a head covering with a shaped crown and full circle brim. (Revised 1997)


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## JTM (Nov 16, 2010)

ShadyGrove821 said:


> It is my understanding that Sikhs never wear any headgear on top of their turbans. If a Sikh Mason were to be elected Master of a Texas Lodge, I would hope that the Grand Master would grant dispensation for him to preside wearing his turban only.


 
this would make a lot of sense to me.


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## Papatom (Nov 16, 2010)

Another question, esotric work requires the word GOD, how would he get around this?


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## ShadyGrove821 (Nov 16, 2010)

Papatom said:


> Another question, esotric work requires the word GOD, how would he get around this?


Are you referring to Muslims or Sikhs?


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## ShadyGrove821 (Nov 16, 2010)

Papatom said:


> Another question, esotric work requires the word GOD, how would he get around this?


 
Are you concerned with what is on his head, or what is in his heart?


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## JohnnyFlotsam (Nov 16, 2010)

Why would he need to "get around" it?


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## QPZIL (Nov 16, 2010)

I don't think a Muslim would have a problem using the word "God". In fact, that's exactly what "Allah" translates to. It is not a separate name or a separate entity. It's the same as saying "Dios" in Spanish, "Gott" in German, "Dieu" in French, "Elohim" in Hebrew, or "God" in English. It's all referring to the same Grand Architect of the Universe.

And if he believes in a monotheistic god that punishes vice and rewards virtue and has revealed his will to man; if he has the principles of Masonry in his heart... well, I have no problem calling him Brother.


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## JTM (Nov 16, 2010)

Papatom said:


> Another question, esotric work requires the word GOD, how would he get around this?


 if his religion has a veda as the volume of sacred law and he wants to say something else besides god, he's just fine to change it in the esoteric work, according to GLoT law.


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## bullrack33 (Nov 16, 2010)

> If a Sikh Mason were to be elected Master of a Texas Lodge, I would hope that the Grand Master would grant dispensation for him to preside wearing his turban only.



I would hope for this too. Especially since Freemasonry encompasses all religions without prejudice. I fear however, that way to many of our brethren do not hold this to be true. 



> Another question, esoteric work requires the word GOD, how would he get around this?



I sincerely hope that I don't offend *anyone* by this but since Freemasonry encompasses *all* forms of religion, I personally believe that all references to Deity should be made through the phrase "Grand Architect Of The Universe".


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## JohnnyFlotsam (Nov 16, 2010)

JTM said:


> if his religion has a veda as the volume of sacred law and he wants to say something else besides god, he's just fine to change it in the esoteric work, according to GLoT law.


 
Excellent.
It's nice to know that, in this case at least, Masonic rules and regulations can't be used by some misguided brethren to exclude members of certain religions.


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## JTM (Nov 16, 2010)

JohnnyFlotsam said:


> Excellent.
> It's nice to know that, in this case at least, Masonic rules and regulations can't be used by some misguided brethren to exclude members of certain religions.


 we get people trying every year.  aka, someone making an amendment so that only the king james version of the bible can be used on the altar as the VSL.  wait... what?  not only is someone trying to make it so that we can't have other books on there, it has to be their specific version?  :: sigh ::


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## JohnnyFlotsam (Nov 16, 2010)

JTM said:


> we get people trying every year.  aka, someone making an amendment so that only the king james version of the bible can be used on the altar as the VSL.  wait... what?  not only is someone trying to make it so that we can't have other books on there, it has to be their specific version?  :: sigh ::



It is depressing, I grant you, but it is also an opportunity for understanding and, I suspect, teaching. I'd be quite keen to hear just why someone, and a Freemason in particular, would feel the need to discriminate so. I have my suspicions, but I'd genuinely like the hear it from the horses... mouth. Why should the language or required religious garb be used as a reason to abandon the use of the Level?


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## bullrack33 (Nov 16, 2010)

JohnnyFlotsam said:


> I'd be quite keen to hear just why someone, and a Freemason in particular, would feel the need to discriminate so. I have my suspicions, but I'd genuinely like the hear it from the horses... mouth.


 
I would be willing to bet that Thornton Lodge withdraws this proposal just like they did with the similar one they made last year.


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## Dave in Waco (Nov 19, 2010)

bullrack33 said:


> I would be willing to bet that Thornton Lodge withdraws this proposal just like they did with the similar one they made last year.



You mean it's not the first time they have done something like this?


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## bullrack33 (Nov 19, 2010)

Dave in Waco said:


> You mean it's not the first time they have done something like this?



Yep, last year they submitted this resolution. "9. Amend Art. 397 so that* only* the King James Version of the Holy Bible may be placed upon the Altar during the conferral of degrees. (Thornton Lodge #486)"


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## JohnnyFlotsam (Nov 19, 2010)

How is it that an entire Lodge of Master Masons so does not "get it" that they thought this was a good idea? What possible reasons, other than some which are decidedly _un_-Masonic, could they have for making such a proposal? Why has no one seen to their reformation?
These are not meant as rhetorical questions. I am truly interested in the answers.


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## Dave in Waco (Nov 19, 2010)

JohnnyFlotsam said:


> How is it that an entire Lodge of Master Masons so does not "get it" that they thought this was a good idea? What possible reasons, other than some which are decidedly _un_-Masonic, could they have for making such a proposal? Why has no one seen to their reformation?
> These are not meant as rhetorical questions. I am truly interested in the answers.



I wish I had a good answer for you, but I would say lack of direction and/or leadership.


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## Traveling Man (Nov 19, 2010)

JohnnyFlotsam said:


> How is it that an entire Lodge of Master Masons so does not "get it" that they thought this was a good idea? What possible reasons, other than some which are decidedly _un_-Masonic, could they have for making such a proposal? Why has no one seen to their reformation?
> These are not meant as rhetorical questions. I am truly interested in the answers.



Because, believe it or not there are entire lodges that seem to think that Freemasonry is entirely Christian based. Sad but true. I actually heard this in lodge, 





> Masonry is for Christians only and if a Jew petitioned this lodge I would make sure that he would be blackballed.


 This statement was made in front of a brother that was indeed Jewish and had already been IPR. Duh!


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## Blake Bowden (Nov 20, 2010)

JohnnyFlotsam said:


> How is it that an entire Lodge of Master Masons so does not "get it" that they thought this was a good idea? What possible reasons, other than some which are decidedly _un_-Masonic, could they have for making such a proposal? Why has no one seen to their reformation?
> These are not meant as rhetorical questions. I am truly interested in the answers.


 
"Birds of a feather flock together"

This is what happens when so-called "Brothers" allow race, religion and/or politics to enter the Lodge room. When a similar resolution was proposed last year, I was the only one who stood up against it in my Lodge. There were Brethren who were adamantly against allowing another VSL on the altar, but after I gave my .02, many changed their mind. Battle ignorance with knowledge. Remind your Lodge members of the obligations we took and that Freemasonry teaches tolerance in an intolerant world.


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## Bro. Stewart P.M. (Nov 20, 2010)

All I can say about the whole VSL issue is this; If the resolution were to ever pass it would be the death notice for our fraternity in Texas. Just as racism has no place in the Lodge, it is not for us to determine another Brother's as improper.

The fact of the matter is this, no resolution will ever pass declaring the Holy Bible be the only VSL allowed to be placed on the altar. It is against our obligation to the ancient tenants to which our GL Laws are obligated to uphold; that only a petitioner or Brother declare a belief in a Deity.

This kind of Resolution has no place in Masonry.


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