# I am interested in the diffrences between prince hall and f&am



## dstone13 (Apr 20, 2013)

As being a young mason myself in the deep south there is still some race issues sonetimes and im just curious on veiws and diffrences between the two
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## widows son (Apr 21, 2013)

*I am interested in the diffrences between prince hall and f&amp;am*

From what I understand, the GLoTX and the MWPHGLoTX recognize each other, but don't have visitation yet.


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## stuntman98 (Apr 21, 2013)

There shouldn't be a difference.

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## stuntman98 (Apr 21, 2013)

stuntman98 said:


> There shouldn't be a difference.
> 
> Freemason Connect Mobile



http://www.princehall.org/history.html

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## stuntman98 (Apr 21, 2013)

If you read the history, you will understand why PHA lodges are the same, PHA accepts all races of men just as long as they are of legal age, believe in a SINGLE God and is well recommended. The same should be said about all "mainstream" lodges. 

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## dstone13 (Apr 21, 2013)

I understand some of it but its just wierd to me we are sopose to be a brotherhood but yet we still seperate ourselves

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## widows son (Apr 21, 2013)

*I am interested in the diffrences between prince hall and f&amp;am*

Well the thing is, Freemasonry itself is an organization that's been set up so as to be tolerant etc. but MASONS are still people, who succumb to temptation just as any other human would. I think a good example would the situation within the Catholic Church. While the church itself represents holiness, and the purity of Christ, still some priests, WHO ARE STILL MEN, perform heinous acts on innocent children. Is all of the church abusers? No. Is all of Freemasonry prejudice? Of course not. Don't let a few rotten apple ruin the whole batch.


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## bro. woodson (Apr 21, 2013)

My lodge is prince hall f&am im in va

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## dstone13 (Apr 21, 2013)

That is very true. See like we are not sopose to carry on masonic converse with with clandestant masons or men made in such a lodge and they consider prince hall as such. I have several friends that are prince hall and I think that they have some good knowledge too

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## bro. woodson (Apr 21, 2013)

Bro we go to af&am they come to ours knowledge is knowledge prince hall was strong on the military lodge very uniformed with pride not shame this is what ive experienced in va

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## bro. woodson (Apr 21, 2013)

I died for mine like you did for yours brother overstand we are mwphglva we are not affiliated with pha overstand the difference

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## bupton52 (Apr 21, 2013)

bro. woodson said:


> I died for mine like you did for yours brother overstand we are mwphglva we are not affiliated with pha overstand the difference
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Freemasonry mobile app



What? This doesn't make any sense. You are a member of the MWPHGLoVA but your lodge is not PHA? Please help me understand. I think I see what you are saying but I need a little help. 


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## bro. woodson (Apr 21, 2013)

Brother I was speaking of prince hall origin I didnt make myself clear my apologies I am pha

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## stuntman98 (Apr 21, 2013)

PHA and PHO are not the same, some may speculate that is "close" but pho is around because of the national compact. Very confusing  I will link it.

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## stuntman98 (Apr 22, 2013)

http://www.thephylaxis.org/bogus/education.php

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## BryanMaloney (Apr 22, 2013)

In Texas, we're not F&AM, so I'm not sure how the question would apply.


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## kingtroy1972 (Apr 30, 2013)

Dear brother i am a international free mason i got raised in Richmond,Va but i now live in Pensacola,Fl what can i do to stay active? There are no international lodges here????

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## dfreybur (May 1, 2013)

kingtroy1972 said:


> Dear brother i am a international free mason i got raised in Richmond,Va but i now live in Pensacola,Fl what can i do to stay active? There are no international lodges here????



As International is clandestine I suggest you approach one of the regular and recognized lodges in your area.  Request "healing".  You may need to go through your degrees again or they may let you do your proficiencies over again.


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## PHA KD#50 (May 31, 2013)

I am currently an E.A. In a princehall lodge and I have already learned so much. I look forward to the day I earn my 3rd degree!!! 


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## dew_time (May 31, 2013)

dstone13 said:


> See like we are not sopose to carry on masonic converse with with clandestant masons or men made in such a lodge and they consider prince hall as such.
> 
> Sent from my SPH-D710 using Freemasonry mobile app



Just curious... no intentions or disrespect intented... your lodge doesn't recognize PHA and see's them as clandestant?


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## Jamarr/G\ (May 31, 2013)

If I'm not mistaken some southern states are now starting to recognize PHA.(if not all by now) I know personally that TN does and a couple of others here in the south. 

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## dfreybur (Jun 2, 2013)

Jamarr/G\ said:


> If I'm not mistaken some southern states are now starting to recognize PHA.(if not all by now) I know personally that TN does and a couple of others here in the south.



Most recent was North Carolina.  Slowly I turn.  Step by step.  Inch by inch ...


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## pecolaman (Jun 3, 2013)

If you visit a lodge or a tlyed meeting and your Grand Lodge do not recognize the organization you are visiting then you just broke your obligation no ands if or buts about it. Please please please my brothers understand that tbere are only two legitimate Masonic bodies in America, that is tbe Grand Lodge of state and Prince Hall of state there are only two Prince Hall Grand Lodges that do not go by the name MW Prince Hall Grand Lodge. They are MW Stringer Grand Lodge F&AM (PHA)MS and MW Union Grand Lodge F&AM (PHA) FL but they are regular recognize body.There is also MW Prince Hall AF&AM of Liberia. 

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## pecolaman (Jun 3, 2013)

There are only 9 Southern states that do not recognize The Prince Hall Grand Lodges of state in those states. Here are those state. Al,Fl,Ga, Ky,Ms,Nc, Sc, Va and Wv. 

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## Spawny (Jun 3, 2013)

These states aren't recognized by there jurisdiction, and others who feel the same way. I hail from the MWGLPHA of DC. We regularly visit NC with permission from the GL. In March I attended a raising at AS Hunter in Raleigh. Bros from FL, SC, MD, PA, VA, DC, MS, and other places PHA, AF&A all in attendance. It was a beautiful thing that we all shared. To see whites and blacks, north and south in one place on the level was incredible. I will always help aid and assist my worthy brethren.


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## bro. woodson (Jun 3, 2013)

Well put brother

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## dfreybur (Jun 3, 2013)

pecolaman said:


> There are only 9 Southern states that do not recognize The Prince Hall Grand Lodges of state in those states. Here are those state. Al,Fl,Ga, Ky,Ms,Nc, Sc, Va and Wv.



Your list is not quite current my brother.  The good news is North Carolina recently achieved recognition.  Virginia was a few years ago.  Two more jurisdictions have moved into the modern era.  I notice Arkansas is not in your list, though.  There was some sort of mess going on there with recognition.  According to UGLE they still don't have recognition resolved.  I don't see Louisiana listed either.  Here's the list of North American jurisdictions that do have recognition.  I was surprised to see that not all states have PHA listed.  England has been rubber stamping them as they confirm their lineage and apply.

http://www.ugle.org.uk/about-ugle/recognised-foreign-grand-lodges/grand-lodges-in-north-america/

AL, AR, FL, GA, KY, LA, MS, SC, WV

One other thing to do is completion.  Some states like my own Illinois do blanket recognition as England reports recognition.  Some states like my own California include them in the annual meeting.  Other states wait on applications.  So the details are a mess.  I suggest everyone in either regular GL to offer blanket recognition with visitation as they get added to the UGLE list.


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## pecolaman (Jun 3, 2013)

You are correct my mistake I did leave off La and Ak and put Va and Nc in there place.

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## James F Jackson (Jun 3, 2013)

Good afternoon. To  all just read all these threads and it seems like a petioner must watch where they petition
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## pecolaman (Jun 3, 2013)

Most differently do your research. Most F&AM (PHA) consider the ifamm as bogus. They do mot have any linage to any lodge or grand lodge. There founder William V. Banks use a business license from Delaware for a radio station and beauty school too say it has the same authority as a Masonic charter from a competent jurisdiction given them power to work something call and american charter. They where sue by another bogus organization from Alabama  that is why the had to put a key under the S&C. 
They even tell the lie that their founder was apart of F&AM (PHA) and now the rumor is that he was apart of the ngl. The worst part is when you try to educate men and women from there group they think you are the ones lying even when you have the documented court case's as evidence. 
When Banks die his wife took over their organization and would not step down as the CEO until she was paid. It was a feature story in the jet magazine a few years ago. Now you tell me BOGUS or what. They are just as in the dark as members from John G Jones and HC Scott af&am, were was expelled masons and lied that they got a charter from Romania. The problem is Romania did not have a anyone from there gl here in the United State at that time with the authority to grant a charter to start a singel lodge yet alone three to start a grand lodge that is from Romania themselves. Research do your research or be taken advantage of. One last thing don't get mad when you show up to a regular recognized Grand Lodge of state lodge or a regular recognize  Prince Hall Lodge F&AM and you are told you can't come in it's nothing personal it is the rules, guidelines and  by laws we all follow we will not break our obligation and we hope you do not want to break whatever obligation you said you will follow.
Go to the commission on bogus masonry to find out more the truth is out there.
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## dfreybur (Jun 3, 2013)

James F Jackson said:


> To  all just read all these threads and it seems like a petioner must watch where they petition



Clandestine lodges exist.  They are less common than regular lodges but they are out there.  Petitioners rarely know they are joining a clandestine lodge.  This is one of the reasons the brothers on this forum post lodge locator links to interested men - If you find a lodge to petition using one of these links it is one of the genuine ones.

Are clandestine lodges bad in most senses?  Not really.  They practice local charity and do good deeds.  They teach their members.  But regular Masonry now spans two planets (good luck getting to the Moon to actually attend Tranquility Lodge but it is a valid dream that will happen some day over the rainbow).  As a Master mason member of a regular lodge you can approach a nearly any lodge in the two worlds and be among the brethren with varying amounts of paperwork and advanced notice.  Join a clandestine lodge and you're in for a shock if you travel.  Best to find a lodge through the lodge locator links of the regular grand lodges as posted.

My method for finding regular lodges is simple.  I start at the United Grand Lodge of England and look for the lists of districts and  foreign grand lodges.  I follow the links and post the lodge locator link.

If I don't find a lodge in that geography I Google for a grand lodge "in exile".


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## James F Jackson (Jun 4, 2013)

Well tonight will be my first visit to a lodge in Miami shores fl known as village lodge 315. Will be in touch and let you guys know how it went. Thank you for your support
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## dew_time (Jun 4, 2013)

James F Jackson said:


> Well tonight will be my first visit to a lodge in Miami shores fl known as village lodge 315. Will be in touch and let you guys know how it went. Thank you for your support
> Freemason Connect Mobile



You got this!!

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## James F Jackson (Jun 4, 2013)

Thank you Dew 

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## BroBook (Jun 14, 2014)

kingtroy1972 said:


> Dear brother i am a international free mason i got raised in Richmond,Va but i now live in Pensacola,Fl what can i do to stay active? There are no international lodges here????
> 
> Freemason Connect Mobile


No my brother you cannot stay active here you should/must join a PHA if you are duly and truly!!!


Bro Book
M.W.U.G.L. Of Fl: P.H.A.
Excelsior # 43
At pensacola


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## Willys (Jul 10, 2014)

James F Jackson said:


> Good afternoon. To  all just read all these threads and it seems like a petioner must watch where they petition
> Freemason Connect Mobile


You're absolutely right about that.  When searching for a lodge to petition, knowing nothing about local lodges, I used the Yellow Pages.  Found a good suspect, gave a call and made my inquiry about joining.  The good fellow answering the call asked, 'When is the last time you had communion?'  It didn't take long for me to realize that wasn't a Constituent Lodge of the Grand Lodge of Texas.

Thank the good Lord for telephones.  I'd have hated to have done that in person.


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## Morris (Jul 10, 2014)

Willys said:


> You're absolutely right about that.  When searching for a lodge to petition, knowing nothing about local lodges, I used the Yellow Pages.  Found a good suspect, gave a call and made my inquiry about joining.  The good fellow answering the call asked, 'When is the last time you had communion?'  It didn't take long for me to realize that wasn't a Constituent Lodge of the Grand Lodge of Texas.
> 
> Thank the good Lord for telephones.  I'd have hated to have done that in person.


Communion, I can only imagine the surprise. That's pretty funny. 

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## BroBook (Jul 11, 2014)

It's good that you recognized that as an illegitimate inquiry!!!


Bro Book
M.W.U.G.L. Of Fl: P.H.A.
Excelsior # 43
At pensacola


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## Pscyclepath (Jul 13, 2014)

pecolaman said:


> There are only 9 Southern states that do not recognize The Prince Hall Grand Lodges of state in those states. Here are those state. Al,Fl,Ga, Ky,Ms,Nc, Sc, Va and Wv.



Arkansas currently does not have recognition between the Grand Lodge of AR and the PHA GL of Arkansas.  There was an attempt to build some sort of bridge several years ago, but the PHA folks said they liked things the way they are.   Individually, we all get along well, but there is no mutual recognition, so we are still clandestine to one another.


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## jwardl (Dec 24, 2014)

stuntman98 said:


> There shouldn't be a difference.
> 
> Freemason Connect Mobile


I'd expect there would be some -- just as there is from one state to the next. However, I'd also expect the differences to be small.
Now that we can, I'm looking forward to finding out firsthand!


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## Warrior1256 (Sep 19, 2015)

widows son said:


> *I am interested in the diffrences between prince hall and f&amp;am*
> 
> From what I understand, the GLoTX and the MWPHGLoTX recognize each other, but don't have visitation yet.


Same here in Kentucky.


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## Warrior1256 (Sep 19, 2015)

pecolaman said:


> There are only 9 Southern states that do not recognize The Prince Hall Grand Lodges of state in those states. Here are those state. Al,Fl,Ga, Ky,Ms,Nc, Sc, Va and Wv.
> 
> Freemason Connect Mobile


Kentucky now recognizes PH but does not yet have visitation rights between the two.


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## Dontrell Stroman (Sep 19, 2015)

Warrior1256 said:


> Kentucky now recognizes PH but does not yet have visitation rights between the two.


When did The GL of Tn start recognizing Prince Hall Affiliated ?


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## bupton52 (Sep 19, 2015)

Travelling Man91 said:


> When did The GL of Tn start recognizing Prince Hall Affiliated ?



They don't as far as I know of. Neither GL recognizes the other.


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## montkun (Oct 1, 2015)

Both Grand Lodges are included in my third degree obligation here in Pennsylvania.


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## Dontrell Stroman (Oct 2, 2015)

That's awesome brother. Glad to hear some GLs are moving forward.


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