# Out of all the animals why a goat?



## JMartinez (Nov 21, 2016)

We've all been through the whole "we're getting the goat ready" and "hope you're ready, the goats awfully mean today" thing. So why a goat? Is it ritually or historically significant at all? 


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## Bloke (Nov 21, 2016)

I don't actually know, cause I tend to ignore the volumes written on this because it really does not interest me anymore, but I guess it would be the goats association with male subversiveness and the " occult " (Templar, Masonic, etc ) associations made by writers and critics with Baphomet. But I'm keen to hear other views, I should know more about this than I do..


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## Bloke (Nov 21, 2016)

Oh, and the fact we've been feeding this for over 150 years....


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## coachn (Nov 21, 2016)

JMartinez said:


> We've all been through the whole "we're getting the goat ready" and "hope you're ready, the goats awfully mean today" thing. So why a goat? Is it ritually or historically significant at all?


Although it started out as a joke in an expose targeting the Oddfellows fraternity in 1845, the fact remains that the origin of what the Craft practices and the tragedy that it re-enacts both allude to goat.  However, you'll have to dig deep to understand the connection 'cause your lodge education won't educate you I any way to help you understand.  It is both ritually and historically significant, but it's significance to the re-enacted tragedy is even more telling.


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## deministri (Nov 21, 2016)

Same here, i think is more of the Templar Legends, and the people tend to refer us to Cults including Baphomet. My father left me several templar books, but cant say i really know about the subject.


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## MBC (Nov 21, 2016)

coachn said:


> Although it started out as a joke in an expose targeting the Oddfellows fraternity in 1845, the fact remains that the origin of what the Craft practices and the tragedy that it re-enacts both allude to goat.  However, you'll have to dig deep to understand the connection 'cause your lodge education won't educate you I any way to help you understand.  It is both ritually and historically significant, but it's significance to the re-enacted tragedy is even more telling.



I heard two versions of it before, the one is the same exactly as John said about the Oddfellows.
The other one is because they sometimes refer the GAOTU as God Of All Things at that time...


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## billyjfootball (Nov 21, 2016)

No idea. The Goat talk was also popular when I was pledging my college fraternity.


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## dfreybur (Nov 22, 2016)

Hazing is forbidden.  Solemnity is mandatory.  Jocularity happens anyways.

Near anagram for Grand Of Architect The universe.

Scapegoat was separated from society and blamed for the sins of the year.  An okay metaphor for some of the worst of views by outsiders, but its also a metaphor for breaking off the rough and superfluous parts of our lives using the lessons of our working tools so it's not a bad double layered meaning.  Classic hidden mystery of the sort that we can shout from the rooftops and most don't get it so it remains secret.

Billy goats eat anything.  You've been to enough rubber chicken and canned green bean meals at enough Masonic functions to get that meaning, right?  ;^)

Kid skin is softer than lamb skin, so it would make a really nice apron other than the fact that it's a physical error.  And yet I know lodges that give out Naugahyde aprons.  I figure the group that tells stories of the wild Nauga is the Loyal Order of the Water Buffalo not us.  ;^)

Slight of hand of the parlor magic type.  Sets the candidate up to be more impressed by the story he might have already known.


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## Brother_Steve (Nov 23, 2016)

I thought goat stood for God of All Things.

I guess I was wrong!


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## JMartinez (Nov 23, 2016)

Brother_Steve said:


> I thought goat stood for God of All Things.
> 
> I guess I was wrong!



No I still that that's right, it's what everyone's been told here in Texas


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## MRichard (Dec 2, 2016)

JMartinez said:


> No I still that that's right, it's what everyone's been told here in Texas
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using My Freemasonry



Trust me, not everything you are told in Texas is right.


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## MRichard (Dec 3, 2016)

Several organizations use the term riding the goat. Not sure the reference is necessarily masonic in its beginnings.


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## MRichard (Dec 3, 2016)

Here are a couple of links on the subject matter. I do not vouch for accuracy of either.

http://www.masonicdictionary.com/goat.html

http://www.dummies.com/religion/spirituality/debunking-common-myths-about-freemasonry/


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## MRichard (Dec 3, 2016)

This appears to be the best explanation and expounds on Coach's explanation. http://phoenixmasonry.org/Moore_Riding_the_Goat.pdf


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## dfreybur (Dec 4, 2016)

MRichard said:


> Trust me, not everything you are told in Texas is right.



True of all jurisdictions and all lodges.  Brothers teach what they learned, whether it was ever correct or not.  The ritual is standardized in US jurisdictions.  The rest is not.  Brothers also lose track of what has changed since they were taught.

I've heard all sorts of statements that weren't the case.  Some jokes some misconceptions.


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## Levelhead (Dec 4, 2016)

Been a long time. 







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## acjohnson53 (Dec 4, 2016)

It's hard to break a GOAT, cause they are as awnry as hell.....LOL


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## acjohnson53 (Dec 4, 2016)

Think about what them Shriners do, they got a camel called Clyde, go figure/G\


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## acjohnson53 (Dec 4, 2016)

G-greatest
O-of
A-all
T-time

Don't get it twisted we all had to mount that stead at one time or another, I just so happen to catch him when he was half full, and I rode the whole 8 seconds, before he kicked dirt in my face....


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## MRichard (Dec 9, 2016)




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## coachn (Dec 9, 2016)




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## coachn (Dec 9, 2016)




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## CLewey44 (Dec 9, 2016)

This conversation is making me uneasy! Between mention of kid's skins and some garrulous chatter, I'm going to have to bow out lol.


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## acjohnson53 (Dec 14, 2016)

If it eases the thought of riding a goat...that's just talk in some Lodges...Trust me know one will touch you in know kind of way for hazing is strictly forbidden in masonry, any fraternal order....


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## fmasonlog (Dec 14, 2016)

Levelhead said:


> Been a long time.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Haha. How do I share that? 


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## fmasonlog (Dec 14, 2016)

The real question is: Why not a goat 


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## JMartinez (Dec 15, 2016)

dfreybur said:


> True of all jurisdictions and all lodges.  Brothers teach what they learned, whether it was ever correct or not.  The ritual is standardized in US jurisdictions.  The rest is not.  Brothers also lose track of what has changed since they were taught.
> 
> I've heard all sorts of statements that weren't the case.  Some jokes some misconceptions.



Well said Brother. 


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## coachn (Dec 16, 2016)

CLewey44 said:


> This conversation is making me uneasy! Between mention of kid's skins and some garrulous chatter, I'm going to have to bow out lol.


Don't bow out Bro.!  Ride that goat out!


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## CLewey44 (Dec 16, 2016)

Levelhead said:


> Been a long time.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



This should be apart of every Masonic 'marketing' plan.


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## Warrior1256 (Dec 20, 2016)

deministri said:


> Same here, i think is more of the Templar Legends, and the people tend to refer us to Cults including Baphomet. My father left me several templar books, but cant say i really know about the subject.


Hadn't considered this. Could be true.


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## acjohnson53 (Dec 24, 2016)




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