# Montana Grand Master Removed



## My Freemasonry

In Montana today, at a Tribunal in Billings, four Past Grand Masters removed the sitting Grand Master, Tom Duffy. I have no other information than this at this point. Can anyone provide more details? No gossip, just the facts please.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			






More...


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## KSigMason

This is very sad to hear.  He had his right to remove the Grand Secretary for conduct I consider to be very unbecoming of a Mason.


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## Benton

Yuck. It's sad when situations spiral. I hope Montana Masonry can heal after this ordeal.


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## JJones

Seems like a lot of stuff like this has been going on lately, none of it shows us in a favorable light.


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## KFerguson84

KSigMason said:


> This is very sad to hear.  He had his right to remove the Grand Secretary for conduct I consider to be very unbecoming of a Mason.



You're absolutely correct, Bro. Barry. I've heard horror stories about the GS, and his real life brother, the Asst GS in Montana.


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## SeeKer.mm

So.... what happened?


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## felix_mason

KFerguson84 said:


> You're absolutely correct, Bro. Barry. I've heard horror stories about the GS, and his real life brother, the Asst GS in Montana.


 
Brother Ferguson, what are the horror stories about the GS and his real life brother, the Asst GS, that youve heard?


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## Frater Cliff Porter

Hey Daniel I think its fair to let the Brother know that you used to post here under the name Dion and that you are the Asst. Secretary of Montana in question.


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## davidjones201

What happened?


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## bupton52

Frater Cliff Porter said:


> Hey Daniel I think its fair to let the Brother know that you used to post here under the name Dion and that you are the Asst. Secretary of Montana in question.



That would be very fair!!


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## Spring TX MM

Frater Cliff Porter said:


> Hey Daniel I think its fair to let the Brother know that you used to post here under the name Dion and that you are the Asst. Secretary of Montana in question.




 Always on top of things, Brother. Very nice∴

S&F
Kyle


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## KSigMason

KFerguson84 said:


> You're absolutely correct, Bro. Barry. I've  heard horror stories about the GS, and his real life brother, the Asst  GS in Montana.


 It should be fair to note that the AGS is the biological son of the GS, not his brother.


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## Mac

Brethren, I must admit I am disappointed.  Our obligations should be binding, in whole.  We should not be quick to defame the name of any of our brothers, otherwise Freemasonry is no different than any other organization out there.  We can read and write as many books as we want, discuss the beauties of the Craft, etc.  It's all for naught when we do not conduct ourselves as Masons.


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## Brotimpa62

I am new to this site and saddened with what seems like conduct that is beneath us as masons.


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## LOOSE_TEKZ_911

*911*

I am seeking knowledge here in New Jersey but after reading this im second guessing my thoughts of it.


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## Frater Cliff Porter

Duplicate....


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## Frater Cliff Porter

*Re: 911*

This issue is a bigger issue than the limited comments on this forum would allow and I think the Brethren are trying to post their support on one side of the issue or another without providing too much that would be improper.

The Grand Lodge of Colorado was saddened to see the Grand Master removed and had suffered great harm at the hands of the secretary and his son in this and I don't believe Montana has seen the last of what will be a tumultuous road for them.

They have my prayers and my thoughts our with the Brethren.  

911 if you are looking for a Fraternity that has no hiccups, obstacles, or occasional frustration, you need to find one without human beings...and Masonry is full of them.

We fail, we succeed, we rise and we fall.  It is part of life and thus part of the Fraternity.  But it is full with some of the greatest men in the world and some of the best experiences of my life have been Masonic.

It is likely the wonderful men and the great experiences that make the negative ones stand out.  So much so, we as a Fraternity don't even want to hear about them they are so hard to take.

But that does not mean the Craft is not worthy.

I would also provide that if you are the same Loose Tek 911 that posted:
Goin away Â« PSYCHOTIK and you are in fact heading back to prison...then the Fraternity should be the last thing on your mind.


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## Mac

*Re: 911*



Frater Cliff Porter said:


> This issue is a bigger issue than the limited comments on this forum would allow and I think the Brethren are trying to post their support on one side of the issue or another without providing too much that would be improper.
> 
> The Grand Lodge of Colorado was saddened to see the Grand Master removed and had suffered great harm at the hands of the secretary and his son in this and I don't believe Montana has seen the last of what will be a tumultuous road for them.


Do you represent the Grand Lodge?  And what did the Secretary and Son (insert Sanford & Son theme) do that caused great harm?  I personally do not know all of the details, and this kind of statement is EXACTLY what I'm driving at:  we are defaming the good names of brother masons, and we don't know all the facts.  Back-channel PMs, etc, are not exemplary of "meeting on the level."



> They have my prayers and my thoughts our with the Brethren.
> 
> 911 if you are looking for a Fraternity that has no hiccups, obstacles, or occasional frustration, you need to find one without human beings...and Masonry is full of them.
> 
> We fail, we succeed, we rise and we fall.  It is part of life and thus part of the Fraternity.  But it is full with some of the greatest men in the world and some of the best experiences of my life have been Masonic.


Agreed.


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## Frater Cliff Porter

I do.  I am a voting member of Grand Lodge and the Chair of Grand Lodge Education for the Most Worshipful Grand Lodge of Colorado.  

The Grand Secretary and the Assistant Grand Secretary for instance created an unauthorized webpage defaming the Rocky Mountain Masonic Conference that would occur in Colorado and encourage people not to attend.  There campaign to ask people not to come and not support the conference while it was in Colorado was successful enough that attendance was cut in half initially.  

After we contacted the various Grand Lodges, we recovered some of the numbers, but unable to meet contractual deadlines for the numbers THOUSANDS of dollars were taken from the GL of Colorado budget to cover the cost that otherwise would have been covered through registrations.

The defaming nature of the statements was eventually removed by order of the GM in Montana.

Reid, the GS of Montana, also tried to rally the Conference of Grand Secretaries against Colorado speakers at the Conference and created an embarrassing situation for some when he stood up and made a big deal out of refusing to listen.

The Assistant GS called Colorado's Masonic educational programs several names and has implied that we are boarding on irregular Masonry because we allow Traditional Observance lodges in the state.  He believes we are creating a Masonic religion.  Very tin foil hat type accusations, but they were enough to cause concern and our GM reached out to ask it to stop.


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## scialytic

KSigMason said:


> It should be fair to note that the AGS is the biological son of the GS, not his brother.


 Good catch! 

I must admit...the schoolboy in me is screaming for answers! But we are above that. That only makes this situation worse. I hope all goes well with the constituency that they are able to vote in the right Leadership--even if the "best qualified" had just been removed. Prayers to the affected communities and parties...I truly believe that good will prevail.


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## scialytic

I use the term "We" loosely...it shall be "We" soon...


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## KSigMason

While I have my opinions on this matter, due to personal knowledge, I must say I should stay out of it and let the wheels turn.  I am going to back out of the discussion for a bit.


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## SeeKer.mm

Frater Cliff Porter said:


> I do.  I am a voting member of Grand Lodge and the Chair of Grand Lodge Education for the Most Worshipful Grand Lodge of Colorado.
> 
> The Grand Secretary and the Assistant Grand Secretary for instance created an unauthorized webpage defaming the Rocky Mountain Masonic Conference that would occur in Colorado and encourage people not to attend.  There campaign to ask people not to come and not support the conference while it was in Colorado was successful enough that attendance was cut in half initially.
> 
> After we contacted the various Grand Lodges, we recovered some of the numbers, but unable to meet contractual deadlines for the numbers THOUSANDS of dollars were taken from the GL of Colorado budget to cover the cost that otherwise would have been covered through registrations.
> 
> The defaming nature of the statements was eventually removed by order of the GM in Montana.
> 
> Reid, the GS of Montana, also tried to rally the Conference of Grand Secretaries against Colorado speakers at the Conference and created an embarrassing situation for some when he stood up and made a big deal out of refusing to listen.
> 
> The Assistant GS called Colorado's Masonic educational programs several names and has implied that we are boarding on irregular Masonry because we allow Traditional Observance lodges in the state.  He believes we are creating a Masonic religion.  Very tin foil hat type accusations, but they were enough to cause concern and our GM reached out to ask it to stop.


 


We allow traditional observance lodges in CT too.....we are not irregular by any means....I don't understand the BS that some people strum up in the name of...what?....drama?.....


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## Traveling Man

SeeKer.mm said:


> We allow traditional observance lodges in CT too.....we are not irregular by any means....I don't understand the BS that some people strum up in the name of...what?....drama?.....



Could it be "the breaking of tradition"? That would be their perception of "tradition". Lest we forget there are those that hold steadfast, "that there not be any innovation in masonry", without a clue as to what "Traditional Observance", is or might be. We must remember that we all think masonry "should be" that which we were taught, within our limited perceptions.

Or as I originally stated a lonnnng time ago, there will be those that will contest the formation of these types of lodges, fearing the loss of control!


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## Frater Cliff Porter

> Or as I originally stated a lonnnng time ago, there will be those that will contest the formation of these types of lodges, fearing the loss of control!



Very true.  

Speaking two years in a row to the Conference of GM's of North America I was actually heartened by our leadership.  The majority were hardworking and loving men who desired to see the Craft grow, progress, and fulfill the lives of its members.

Some, a very few, but still some, would rather be the captain of a sinking ship than a sailor on a healthy one and will drag a ship down versus surrender what they fell is control.

There are other issues with the above scenario.  Allegations if misplaced monies, etc.  

Again, for we should guard our gates, guard our Grand Lodges through votes and active participating and keep our Montana Brothers in our prayers and thoughts.


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## BryanMaloney

If Masonry is transmitted solely by word of mouth, then how can there be any records of "traditional observance" that differs from how things are done currently? It is that simple. If it is truly all by word of mouth, then what is currently done is the only way it can be done--if everything truly is 100% solely by word of mouth.


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## Traveling Man

I remember playing a game in school where the teacher whispered in ones ear, each student was required then in turn to do the same, until the end. The last student then was to say out-loud what they had heard. It doesn't require much imagination to figure out what happened. I say this in response to the above statement.

The other item I would like to suggest is that if one has never attended a lodge or lodges where this all began, then how can one say what is proper? And attending "a few lodges somewhere else" doesn't cut the mustard. Maybe this is sidetracking off the original thread and might have to be moved to the TO thread, but I'm still trying to get over the "elitist note" there, after all we are an elitist group <VBG>.


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## chrmc

BryanMaloney said:


> If Masonry is transmitted solely by word of mouth, then how can there be any records of "traditional observance" that differs from how things are done currently? It is that simple. If it is truly all by word of mouth, then what is currently done is the only way it can be done--if everything truly is 100% solely by word of mouth.



While that may hold true with regards to the actual wording of the ritual there are plenty of things in masonry that have changed. When you look at old pictures you'd see brethren meeting dressed in their finest outfit, drinking allowed in lodge and I'm certain they didn't have electricity. Those all differ from how things are done today.


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## Traveling Man

chrmc said:


> While that may hold true with regards to the actual wording of the ritual there are plenty of things in masonry that have changed. When you look at old pictures you'd see brethren meeting dressed in their finest outfit, drinking allowed in lodge and I'm certain they didn't have electricity. Those all differ from how things are done today.


 
Neither hold true; you must remember it's only in the teetotaling U.S. where the drinking is frowned upon.  The working (and wording) ritual varies greatly between these United States, in Europe even more-so. To make such wild assertions is misleading at best.


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## Ronald D. Martin

View attachment MT GM Letter.pdf


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## scialytic

*Worth Repeating*



Frater Cliff Porter said:


> This issue is a bigger issue than the limited comments on this forum would allow and I think the Brethren are trying to post their support on one side of the issue or another without providing too much that would be improper.The Grand Lodge of Colorado was saddened to see the Grand Master removed and had suffered great harm at the hands of the secretary and his son in this and I don't believe Montana has seen the last of what will be a tumultuous road for them.They have my prayers and my thoughts our with the Brethren.  911 if you are looking for a Fraternity that has no hiccups, obstacles, or occasional frustration, you need to find one without human beings...and Masonry is full of them.We fail, we succeed, we rise and we fall.  It is part of life and thus part of the Fraternity.  But it is full with some of the greatest men in the world and some of the best experiences of my life have been Masonic.It is likely the wonderful men and the great experiences that make the negative ones stand out.  So much so, we as a Fraternity don't even want to hear about them they are so hard to take.But that does not mean the Craft is not worthy.I would also provide that if you are the same Loose Tek 911 that posted:Goin away Â« PSYCHOTIK and you are in fact heading back to prison...then the Fraternity should be the last thing on your mind.


I decided to read through these posts again after reading the letter. I felt the Brother Porter's sagacity in this post was worth the second post of it. May the Brothers in Montana flourish from the shadows of these incidents...


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## Henry

What I find interesting is that the aGS involved is trolling this board whilst he is supposed to be working for the GL of MT


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## apursell

I am saddened to see Montana's reputation appears as this outside the state. I had not heard of any of these "incidents".

I did have the "pleasure" of attending the "Tribunal" as part of the Defense Co-Council for Duffy and I have my own opinions of what I saw first hand; of which I will keep to myself and not post online. PGM Tom Duffy is a good man and a mentor to many in our lodge and around the state.

Aaron Pursell, Secy
Euclid Lodge No. 58


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## Charles Coward

Montana List  This web page lists some emails which were supposed to be spread throughout the craft but then sent an order of silence by the sitting GM. In effort to observe more light I would look on as the masonic calendar progresses for further posts. The masons in Montana do appreciate and need your prayers and help. Grand Lodge is only empowered by the craft, and through the craft a wrong will be righted.


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## Mac

Brethren, there are men on both sides of this issue claiming that those involved on their respective sides are good men, mentors, ideal masons, etc.

Both sides might be right.  Both sides might be wrong.  The events that have taken place are proof enough that this is not a black and white issue.

What I know for sure is this:  acidic conversation such as this does nothing to benefit the Craft.  It only points out just how human we are, and how prone to such follies we may be.


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## LOOSE_TEKZ_911

Frater Cliff Porter said:


> *Re: 911*
> 
> This issue is a bigger issue than the limited comments on this forum would allow and I think the Brethren are trying to post their support on one side of the issue or another without providing too much that would be improper.
> 
> The Grand Lodge of Colorado was saddened to see the Grand Master removed and had suffered great harm at the hands of the secretary and his son in this and I don't believe Montana has seen the last of what will be a tumultuous road for them.
> 
> They have my prayers and my thoughts our with the Brethren.
> 
> 911 if you are looking for a Fraternity that has no hiccups, obstacles, or occasional frustration, you need to find one without human beings...and Masonry is full of them.
> 
> We fail, we succeed, we rise and we fall.  It is part of life and thus part of the Fraternity.  But it is full with some of the greatest men in the world and some of the best experiences of my life have been Masonic.
> 
> It is likely the wonderful men and the great experiences that make the negative ones stand out.  So much so, we as a Fraternity don't even want to hear about them they are so hard to take.
> 
> But that does not mean the Craft is not worthy.
> 
> I would also provide that if you are the same Loose Tek 911 that posted:
> Goin away Â« PSYCHOTIK and you are in fact heading back to prison...then the Fraternity should be the last thing on your mind.


I'm sorry it took 9 years to respond to this, but you were absolutely right about what you said. Thank you.


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## coachn

re: _*I'm sorry it took 9 years to respond to this*_, but you were absolutely right about what you said. Thank you.


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## LOOSE_TEKZ_911

Ha. Nice meme


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