# Burnt One, Looking for Clearity



## Brother Will (Jun 5, 2017)

Hey brother's I will try to make this post short as possible.

I joined  Masonic Lodge Phalander #100 out of Norfolk VA which is of Scottish Rite Affiliation. I have been part if the lodge for a year now and have not advanced once. I am still an EA. I have not learned anything but the first degree, which I taught myself. I am currently looking for a new lodge to join but is very sceptical now due to my experience.

My question here is What is the difference between Prince Hall and Scottish Rite? How do I find if the lodge is a regular lodge or bogus?

Also I read that you need to be raised to Master Mason in a blue lodge before being able to join SR? Which i did not achieve before joining my current lodge. 

Just looking for clarity and help in any way.


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## Brother JC (Jun 5, 2017)

What's the name of your Grand Lodge? If it's not the GL of VA or the MWPHGLVA then you've likely joined a bogus organization.


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## Glen Cook (Jun 5, 2017)

There is no regular Scottish Rite grand lodge in the US. As indicated, there are  only two legitimate grand lodges in VA.

What is the name of this grand lodge?


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## LK600 (Jun 6, 2017)

There is no Lodge Phalander #100 out of Norfolk VA, at least not one recognized that I can locate.  I could be wrong but...


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## Brother Will (Jun 6, 2017)

I stopped communication with them because of how everything played out but I'm not sure whats the name of the grand lodge is. I searched around and could not find anything on them at all.


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## Brother Will (Jun 6, 2017)

Glen Cook said:


> There is no regular Scottish Rite grand lodge in the US. As indicated, there are  only two legitimate grand lodges in VA.
> 
> What is the name of this grand lodge?



So are there not any Legitimate SR lodges in Virginia or US?


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## SimonM (Jun 6, 2017)

Brother Will said:


> So are there not any Legitimate SR lodges in Virginia or US?



There are no legitimate SR lodges in the US that works in the craft degrees. 

The legitimate bodies that exists works only in the 4-33 degrees


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## Elexir (Jun 6, 2017)

Glen Cook said:


> There is no regular Scottish Rite grand lodge in the US. As indicated, there are  only two legitimate grand lodges in VA.
> 
> What is the name of this grand lodge?



However isnt there lodges in Louisiana that gives the SR Craft degrees that are under the GL of Louisiana?


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## Ripcord22A (Jun 6, 2017)

Yes, however its not the whole GL.  Its only a few lodges from my understanding that were working them before the GLoLA came to be.

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## Bloke (Jun 6, 2017)

Brother Will said:


> I stopped communication with them because of how everything played out but I'm not sure whats the name of the grand lodge is. I searched around and could not find anything on them at all.



I also looked and could not find anything on them...


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## Glen Cook (Jun 6, 2017)

There are some good lodges in Norfolk, both Prince Hall and GL of VA. Seek one out.


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## coachn (Jun 7, 2017)

Brother Will said:


> Hey brother's I will try to make this post short as possible.
> 
> I joined  Masonic Lodge Phalander #100 out of Norfolk VA which is of Scottish Rite Affiliation. I have been part if the lodge for a year now and have not advanced once. I am still an EA. I have not learned anything but the first degree, which I taught myself. I am currently looking for a new lodge to join but is very sceptical now due to my experience.
> 
> ...


It sounds like you've been conned.  Lick your wounds, contact either a mainstream or PHA GL in your area, and start over. 

If you have any doubt as to which GL you are joining, come back here and run it by us.  We will NOT provide you with bad direction.


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## Warrior1256 (Jun 7, 2017)

coachn said:


> It sounds like you've been conned. Lick your wounds, contact either a mainstream or PHA GL in your area, and start over.


Sounds right.


coachn said:


> If you have any doubt as to which GL you are joining, come back here and run it by us. We will NOT provide you with bad direction.


Agreed!


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## Brother Will (Jun 7, 2017)

Can anyone tell what is the difference between Mainstream and PHA besides That PHA is predominantly African American lodges?


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## Ripcord22A (Jun 7, 2017)

PHA(Prince Hall Affiliated)-traces is lineage to African lodge 451 in Boston.  It was founded by Prince Hall and chartered by, I believe, Scotland

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## Brother Will (Jun 7, 2017)

So as far as the teachings, rituals, and degrees... are they the same?


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## Glen Cook (Jun 8, 2017)

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Brother Will said:


> So as far as the teachings, rituals, and degrees... are they the same?



Ritual varies between grand lodges and even lodges. The teachings and degrees are same as other US GLs.


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## coachn (Jun 8, 2017)

Brother Will said:


> So as far as the teachings, rituals, and degrees... are they the same?


I believe that you'll find the PHA lodges using ritual very similar to that which is found in historical USA focused exposes, leaning toward military style lodge activities/performances with a heavy bias toward Christian slants. 

This is from word of mouth from those I have talked with within the PHA world.


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## Bill Lins (Jun 8, 2017)

Glen Cook said:


> Ritual varies between grand lodges *and even lodges*.


Boy, ain't that the truth!


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## MarkR (Jun 9, 2017)

Bill Lins said:


> Boy, ain't that the truth!


Fully accepted in England and Scotland.


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## coachn (Jun 9, 2017)

MarkR said:


> Fully accepted in England and Scotland.


Yep.  But in some jurisdiction, conformity is  required and deviation even in pronunciations will get your ashlar kicked.


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## Warrior1256 (Jun 9, 2017)

Glen Cook said:


> Ritual varies between grand lodges and even lodges.





Bill Lins said:


> Boy, ain't that the truth!


Yep!


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## Brother Will (Jun 9, 2017)

Thanks for all the help brothers...

 I read an article saying that Mainstream Scottish rite recognizes Prince Hall Scottish Rite in all states...... Why the separation still? And is Ph apart of SR just under a different jurisdiction?


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## Ripcord22A (Jun 9, 2017)

The Scottish Rite(SR) is a seperate body.  You must be a 3° MM in order to join the SR.  The SR only works the 4-33°.  And yes the Supreme Council of the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite of Freemasonry, Southern Jurisdiction USA(SR, SJ) does in fact recognize its PHA equivalent.  The Northen Jurisdiction is also recognized by the Southern and vice versa and they both recognize the others PHA equivilents.

The above mentioned Supreme Councils are National Bodies holding power only over the SR bodies that are broke in to Orients(states) and Valleys(think like counties or regions in a state), however the members of the SR are composed of members of said states GL and the members loyalty is to the GL first as you must be in good standing with your GL in order to join the SR.  Even Illustrious Soverign Grand Commander Seale(head of the SR, SJ) must follow the rules of his home GL and is technically subordinate to his GLs Grand Master. SO even though the SR recognizes PHA SR, if are from say Alabama whose GL does not recognize the MWPHGLoAL then you cant attend the PHA SR meetings and vice versa....does this make sense?  
I know it can be hard to follow

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## Warrior1256 (Jun 9, 2017)

Ripcord22A said:


> the members of the SR are composed of members of said states GL and the members loyalty is to the GL first as you must be in good standing with your GL in order to join the SR.


Absolutely! Just today I received the periodical covering the Valleys and AASR Clubs in Kentucky. In it the Secretary / Registrar of the Valley of Louisville, David Carter, PGM, 33rd Degree, plainly states, as he has on more than one occasion, that as Scottish Rite Masons our first and foremost priority is to our Blue Lodge.


Ripcord22A said:


> Even Illustrious Soverign Grand Commander Seale(head of the SR, SJ) must follow the rules of his home GL and is technically subordinate to his GLs Grand Master.


Also agree! Whenever the national head of the AASR or the national leaders of any of the three bodies that make up the York Rite appear with the Grand Master of a state they show deference to the Grand Master.


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## Bloke (Jun 9, 2017)

Ripcord22A said:


> ....  Even Illustrious Soverign Grand Commander Seale(head of the SR, SJ) must follow the rules of his home GL and is technically subordinate to his GLs Grand Master. ..



Nothing technical about it. He is. Brother Seale should also comply with requests and directions a Master presiding in the Craft gives him in that craft lodge. Technically, practically and actually a WM "outranks" him in his own lodge .  I make the point to eternal readers who think SR is a supreme body over all Freemasons. It's not. You can be Grand Master without having ever having anything to do with SR and if a Craft Sec or bunch of MMs excluded Grand Commander from the Craft, they can. By virtue of that exclusion, he's not longer Grand Commander. (A Grand Master once excluded a Shrine Potentate.. creates a real mess)


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## Warrior1256 (Jun 9, 2017)

Bloke said:


> Technically, practically and actually a WM "outranks" him in his own lodge .


Very true!


Bloke said:


> I make the point to eternal readers who think SR is a supreme body over all Freemasons. It's not.


Also true! AASR is an appendent body of Freemasonry.


Bloke said:


> You can be Grand Master without having ever having anything to do with SR and if a Craft Sec or bunch of MMs excluded Grand Commander from the Craft, they can. By virtue of that exclusion, he's not longer Grand Commander.


True, since he has to be a Master Mason in good standing in his Blue Lodge in order to belong to the organization that he is the Grand Commander of.


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## Ripcord22A (Jun 9, 2017)

Bloke said:


> Nothing technical about it. He is. Brother Seale should also comply with requests and directions a Master presiding in the Craft gives him in that craft lodge. Technically, practically and actually a WM "outranks" him in his own lodge .  I make the point to eternal readers who think SR is a supreme body over all Freemasons. It's not. You can be Grand Master without having ever having anything to do with SR and if a Craft Sec or bunch of MMs excluded Grand Commander from the Craft, they can. By virtue of that exclusion, he's not longer Grand Commander. (A Grand Master once excluded a Shrine Potentate.. creates a real mess)


Correct!

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## Brother_Steve (Jun 13, 2017)

SimonM said:


> There are no legitimate SR lodges in the US that works in the craft degrees.
> 
> The legitimate bodies that exists works only in the 4-33 degrees





Elexir said:


> However isnt there lodges in Louisiana that gives the SR Craft degrees that are under the GL of Louisiana?


http://freemasonsfordummies.blogspot.com/2017/05/those-notorious-first-three-scottish.html


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## Warrior1256 (Jun 13, 2017)

Excellent article.


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## Brother_Steve (Jun 15, 2017)

coachn said:


> Yep.  But in some jurisdiction, conformity is  required and deviation even in pronunciations will get your ashlar kicked.


our cipher has words in the back with how they are to be said. You said Divested? (Die-vested)

no! It is Duh-vested!

I like messing with my ritual guy though.

Say superfeces and eh-feces instead of superfi(sh)ies and ephesus and he goes crazy.

annddd if I really want to screw with him, I suffer from a trifling defect during rehearsal.


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## Bloke (Jun 15, 2017)

Brother_Steve said:


> our cipher has words in the back with how they are to be said. You said Divested? (Die-vested)
> 
> no! It is Duh-vested!
> 
> ...



Hehehe... we once had a 3 min conversation on how to say "command".   As a mentor I recommend http://howjsay.com/ it's much better to listen than read a pronunciation.

I'm the "ritual guy" and train all in two lodges. Slightly related:  "Worshipful mother" "sacred suppository" and similar are amusing the first time you hear them but they get old very quickly...
 But if you use them during rehearsal, they can pop out more easily in lodge.. using them and you've just trained yourself to make a mistake. Just like when you use serious but inaccurate ritual in Lodge, your training others to make mistakes.... as I hope at rehearsal "remembers, the kids are always listening to you".


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## Alfred Taylor (Jun 24, 2017)

Ripcord22A said:


> PHA(Prince Hall Affiliated)-traces is lineage to African lodge 451 in Boston.  It was founded by Prince Hall and chartered by, I believe, Scotland
> 
> Sent from my LG-H918 using My Freemasonry mobile app




African Lodge 459 bro


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## Ripcord22A (Jun 24, 2017)

Alfred Taylor said:


> African Lodge 459 bro


Yup typo my bad

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## Brother Will (Jun 24, 2017)

How long does it usually take to get a petition for PHA lodge? I been talking to a brother for about a month now.


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## Ripcord22A (Jun 24, 2017)

Brother Will said:


> How long does it usually take to get a petition for PHA lodge? I been talking to a brother for about a month now.


Could take months....but just curious if you arent yet a member why is your handle "brother will"?

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## Brother Will (Jun 24, 2017)

Ripcord22A said:


> Could take months....but just curious if you arent yet a member why is your handle "brother will"?
> 
> Sent from my LG-H918 using My Freemasonry mobile app



Oh wow, but my handle is brother Will because as stated in my initial post,  I joined a Scottish Rite lodge a year ago and recently found out that the lodge is a bogus lodge (from my understanding), so I was trying to get a petition for PHA to start my journey the right way.


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## Ripcord22A (Jun 25, 2017)

Brother Will said:


> Oh wow, but my handle is brother Will because as stated in my initial post,  I joined a Scottish Rite lodge a year ago and recently found out that the lodge is a bogus lodge (from my understanding), so I was trying to get a petition for PHA to start my journey the right way.


Ok

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