# When is a lodge clandestine? What is a clandestine Mason?



## Bro. Kurt P.M. (Feb 9, 2010)

In general, a lodge or a Mason is clandestine when not legally constituted or made. But â€œnot legally constitutedâ€ may not necessarily mean â€œclandestine.â€ A Fellowcraft receiving the Master Mason degree in a lodge in which the Charter has been lost is not â€œlegallyâ€ made and must be reobligated to be â€œhealed,â€ but such a making is not â€œclandestine.â€ The clandestine lodge today is one which is set up by an unrecognized Grand Lodge which is spurious, unlawful. Any group of men-even men not Masons might declare themselves a lodge and â€œmake Masons,â€ but all these actions, being illegal, would produce only a clandestine lodge and clandestine Masons.

Modern scholarship distinguishes between the â€œclandestineâ€ and the â€œnot recognized.â€ For instance not necessary to go into here, the Grand Lodges of Ireland and of Utah are not in fraternal relations each with the other. But no Utah Mason would term the Irish Grand Lodge â€œclandestineâ€; he would say merely that it s â€œunrecognized.â€


----------



## Warrior1256 (Aug 21, 2014)

Good info.


----------



## Glen Cook (Sep 1, 2014)

Bro. Kurt said:


> ?..For instance not necessary to go into here, the Grand Lodges of Ireland and of Utah are not in fraternal relations each with the other...



Just a note, this would be a surprise to the Grand Lodge of Utah which shows a representative of the GL of Ireland.


----------

