# Vietnam



## Bloke (Sep 20, 2016)

I love the way folk see Freemasonry in a certain light, then the Craft throws up a surprise....i've not researched this, but in a news article, there is a report Ho Chi Mihn was a freemason...



*As a result of rains and humidity, the building suddenly caved in on 22 September. Located in central Hanoi, the two-storey villa housed the Tonkin branch of the masonic order. The mishap has exposed the place of freemasonry in Vietnam’s modern history, which includes one illustrious member by the name of Ho Chi Minh City.*
Hanoi (AsiaNews/EDA) - The recent collapse of a historic building in central Hanoi has re-opened a hitherto little-known chapter in the history of Vietnam, namely the role played by freemasonry in the country. Emerging in the nineteenth century in the heyday of French colonial rule, the fraternity of free stonemasons included Ho Chi Minh among its members.

In the afternoon of 22 September, the colonial-era building located at 107 Tran Hung Dao St suddenly caved in. Two people were killed and many more were injured.

The local press gave the story broad coverage, raising questions as to why the building caved in. However, what has caught the attention of many intellectuals and history buffs is the role played by the building in the modern history of Vietnam.

Following the establishment of French Indochina in 1887, freemasons came to the Asian country. Once upon a time, the two-storey old French villa was the seat of the Masonic Lodge of the Tonkin.

Rapidly, the lodge (and the villa) grew in influence, so much so that Masons soon held the most important offices and positions of power throughout Indochina.

Based on historical records, 22 out 32 governors-general of Indochina, six out of eight high commissioners, four commissioners general, nine out of 16 military leaders were members of the Masonic fraternity. Many senior French colonial officials had sworn allegiance to the association.

However, this power did not go unchallenged. Catholic missionaries were among the staunchest opponents of Freemasonry in Vietnam, and soon began clashing with local leaders loyal to the lodge.

Such a struggle did not stop the fraternity from growing; especially local educated and wealthy elites soon became keen on belonging to a secret society, beginning with lodges in France.

Such was the case of Nguyen Van Vinh, an intellectual and writer, who translated the main French authors into Vietnamese.

He was the first to join a lodge, taking advantage of a trip to France for the 1908 Universal Exhibition, after meeting resistance from Masonic lodges in Vietnam.

He was soon followed by other Vietnamese, including Emperor Duy Tân, artists and writers such as Tran Trong Kim and Pham Quynh, and even Ho Chi Minh, who at the time (1922) went by the name of Nguyen Ai Quoc.

In 1920s, the Vietnamese lodges opened up to local elites, setting up the ‘Confucius’ lodge in Hanoi and the 'Kong Phu Tseu' in Saigon (now Ho Chi Minh City).

According to the police investigation, the building, which collapsed on 22 September, had been restored in the 1990. However, the work was not enough to stabilise it.

Age (110 years), poor maintenance, heavy rains and high humidity dealt the villa a fatal blow, leading to its subsequent collapse

http://m.asianews.it/index.php?art=35579&l=en


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## MBC (Sep 20, 2016)

Wow interesting.
A famous communist is reported as a Freemason...
So he should be in GOdF those jurisdictions that admit Atheists?


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## Bloke (Sep 20, 2016)

MBC said:


> Wow interesting.
> A famous communist is reported as a Freemason...
> So he should be in GOdF those jurisdictions that admit Atheists?
> 
> ...



Maybe not... lots of communists were not atheists.... but we'd need to do some research on him....


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## Warrior1256 (Sep 20, 2016)

Very interesting article Brother Bloke.


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## Thanh Chau (Feb 18, 2017)

By Vietnam communist rules that gathering more than 4 people is considered as a threat to goverment therefore Freemason is not an acceptable in Vietnam. HCM had lied that he was a Mason but in fact by history, he had asked many Vietnamese Mason at that period of time in France to recommend him but they didn't find him trust worthy because of his reputation. So he had never been initiated but often refered to Freemason with native French for his political advantage.


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## Bloke (Feb 18, 2017)

Thanh Chau said:


> By Vietnam communist rules that gathering more than 4 people is considered as a threat to goverment therefore Freemason is not an acceptable in Vietnam. HCM had lied that he was a Mason but in fact by history, he had asked many Vietnam Mason at that period of time in France to recommend him but they didn't find him trust worthy because his reputation. So he had never been initiated but often refered to Freemason with native French for his political advantage.



That's really interesting. Reminds me of Attaturk of Turkey who could be ruthless in his struggle for an independent state which would be democratic and secular. Not sure how his honesty was regarded though, and he was definitely a Freemason who later outlawed Freemasonry...

What is your source for your comments on HCM.. is there on oral history on this ? The problem with such a loved and also hated guy is truth often gets distorted...

Freemasonry never does well in Authoritarian Systems, the French Colonia era would be the place to look for Freemasonry...

Thanks for the additional information.


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## Thanh Chau (Feb 18, 2017)

Bloke,
I lived under Vietnam communist for 5 years after we, South Vietnamese, lost the war to them. I learned within that 5 years and my parents paid for my younger brother and I to escape by boat in 1980


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## Bloke (Feb 18, 2017)

Thanh Chau said:


> Bloke,
> I lived under Vietnam communist for 5 after we, South Vietnamese, lost the war to them. I learned within that 5 years and my parents paid for my younger brother and I to escape by boat in 1980


I has a school friend here who is the son of the Sth Vietnamese Officer. They came to Australia as Boat People (another business associate as the same). Her, there is no negativity with being a "Boat Person"... His father was sent for "re-education" but they did not know he has been a Colonel and thought he was  lower ranked soldier which saw him survive. One of my best friends in lodge is ex-AATTV serving in the early 60's after also seeing service in the Malaya Emergency. There is high awareness of the Vietnam War here in Australia.


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## Bro. Stewart P.M. (Mar 22, 2017)

~ Post Edited - Inappropriate Personal Attack & Rebuttal Removed ~


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## Bro. Stewart P.M. (Mar 22, 2017)

General Santa Anna of Texas history is also "rumored" to have been a Mason. Many believe this Fraternal tie in spite of violations to the same oath, is the reason the Texians allowed him to escape back into Mexico unharmed.


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## Bloke (Mar 22, 2017)

Bro. Stewart P.M. said:


> ~ Post Edited - Inappropriate Personal Attack & Rebuttal Removed ~



Thanks for letting me know Brother.. but unless something new emerged in the last 9 hours, there was nothing worthy of intervention...

I've said it several times, but I think this forum is over moderated..... to the point of censorship. I've seen this twice in the last 4 days and it seriously grates on me.

The idea that Ho Chi Mihn was a Freemason might distress some, but that he's suggested to be a Freemason is interesting in itself.  I did some digging and not got any evidence beyond the above but continue to ask around.  As webmaster of a masonic website with over 100k unique visitors, I'd be keen to clarify this, perhaps via this thread, but know this is one of the only places where the topic has been discussed in English and is great Google bait for  new members and scholars  ( not me btw).... just as the threads on Landmarks of out father's were, also "Moderated" ( destroyed actually) and an interesting author lost... i think the success of the site is undermined by editing and removing content and that should only be done in very extreme cases


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## Bloke (Mar 22, 2017)

Bro. Stewart P.M. said:


> General Santa Anna of Texas history is also "rumored" to have been a Mason. Many believe this Fraternal tie in spite of violations to the same oath, is the reason the Texians allowed him to escape back into Mexico unharmed.



Many think this is fact rather than rumour, but will take that discussion to an existent thread https://www.myfreemasonry.com/threads/santa-anna.801/#post-176189


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## Thanh Chau (Mar 22, 2017)

Thank you Bloke



Bloke said:


> Thanks for letting me know Brother.. but unless something new emerged in the last 9 hours, there was nothing worthy of intervention...
> 
> I've said it several times, but I think this forum is over moderated..... to the point of censorship. I've seen this twice in the last 4 days and it seriously grates on me.
> 
> The idea that Ho Chi Mihn was a Freemason might distress some, but that he's suggested to be a Freemason is interesting in itself.  I did some digging and not got any evidence beyond the above but continue to ask around.  As webmaster of a masonic website with over 100k unique visitors, I'd be keen to clarify this, perhaps via this thread, but know this is one of the only places where the topic has been discussed in English and is great Google bait for  new members and scholars  ( not me btw).... just as the threads on Landmarks of out father's were, also "Moderated" ( destroyed actually) and an interesting author lost... i think the success of the site is undermined by editing and removing content and that should only be done in very extreme cases


Very


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## Ripcord22A (Mar 22, 2017)

Did my comment about politics get removed?

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## Blake Bowden (Mar 23, 2017)

Bloke said:


> I love the way folk see Freemasonry in a certain light, then the Craft throws up a surprise....i've not researched this, but in a news article, there is a report Ho Chi Mihn was a freemason...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Great article!


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## Minh V.Hoang (Mar 24, 2017)

Hey,how was my comment be considered as personal attack?


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