# Becoming worshipful master of your lodge



## jermy Bell (Jan 22, 2020)

I belong a lodge that I really enjoy being apart of. We have our senior warden come back to lodge after 20 years and will be master this coming masonic year. We have exhausted most of our savings, and need to think about fund raisers, and also trying to become a thing in our community again. But we have one member that wants to spend money we don't have, but when we need to fix something or replace something, this member becomes Mr technical, and trys to make it sound like we are spending more money than we really would be. We have a new young member who has watched to many you tube videos on freemasonry, yet they let him waste time yapping about nothing during business meetings. When asking the new master coming in about any of this or old business that he will inherit, we get, well, I don't wanna step on anyone's toes, and all I'm here for is the friendship etc,etc. If you can't fix or choose to not address problems why become master ?


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## TheThumbPuppy (Jan 23, 2020)

First of all, congratulations.



jermy Bell said:


> they let him waste time


I'm talking here with some experience managing groups. I had a similar situation where one member was taking up a disproportionate amount of time. It is not rude to politely bring back the conversation to where it belongs and invite the talkative member to postpone some of points to the "social" part of the evening. With tact of course.



jermy Bell said:


> wants to spend money we don't have


Anybody can run their personal financial affairs as they like and run up their credit card debts if they so wish.
Check the budget and see if some funds can be moved around to allow some repairs.
However, if the money is not there, the money is just not there and you have to opt for a more thrifty solution.

When you're in charge of a group, you're never going to please everybody. Make sure you listen to them, and also ask questions 1-on-1 to show that you're listening. Unfortunately when you're in charge, you cannot be everybody's best friend and sometimes you have to show just a pinch of assertiveness.


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## CLewey44 (Jan 23, 2020)

Have you guys considered raising dues? If the business model isn't working and the members don't see any value in raising the dues (with inflation) then it may not be able to withstand the financial hardships and ultimately close shop. If the building is dilapidated then new members are less likely to show interest. It's funny, dues in most lodges have been about the same for the last 25 years thinking that'll keep members active and paid up but it has actually backfired to a degree.

This is all assumptions, your dues may be perfectly suited and it could actually just be other issues. But just out of curiosity, what are your dues cost and how many members do you have that are paying dues annually(roughly)?


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## Thomas Stright (Jan 23, 2020)

CLewey44 said:


> dues in most lodges have been about the same for the last 25 years thinking that'll keep members active and paid up but it has actually backfired to a degree.



Endowments are what backfires IMHO. Members get one and then never pay dues again.
Lodges loses out on everyone.

IMHO an Endowment is for when you lay down your working tools.
Get the endowment if you must have one, but continue to pay your dues.
Doing so allows you to tell the lodge what you want your dues to be used for.


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## jermy Bell (Jan 23, 2020)

That seems to be the quickest answer. Raise the dues. We are at $55. And some say I pay over $200-300 . for that kind of money I hope your getting entertainment with dinner. If we keep raising dues to fix all the problems, it'll be like grand lodge. You will only have maybe 2 lodges in your state with a handful of 80 year olds. And the death of freemasonry dying with them. What gets me is that in today's world if you wanna play, how much are you willing to pay, then with no new members or interest, you have nothing but a memory. So start thinking outside your deep wallets


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## CLewey44 (Jan 23, 2020)

Thomas Stright said:


> Endowments are what backfires IMHO. Members get one and then never pay dues again.
> Lodges loses out on everyone.
> 
> IMHO an Endowment is for when you lay down your working tools.
> ...



Yes, they were an ok idea at one time but longterm they certainly have failed.


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## CLewey44 (Jan 23, 2020)

jermy Bell said:


> That seems to be the quickest answer. Raise the dues. We are at $55. And some say I pay over $200-300 . for that kind of money I hope your getting entertainment with dinner. If we keep raising dues to fix all the problems, it'll be like grand lodge. You will only have maybe 2 lodges in your state with a handful of 80 year olds. And the death of freemasonry dying with them. What gets me is that in today's world if you wanna play, how much are you willing to pay, then with no new members or interest, you have nothing but a memory. So start thinking outside your deep wallets



That's the hope. A good lodge experience is key. Only way to make that happen is more money.  As for the 2 lodges and 80 year olds; that's sort of where we are headed now anyways with low dues.


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## jermy Bell (Jan 23, 2020)

If you are paying high dues and looking to keep raising dues, then maybe we should send people to our grand lodges, and say we are closing the doors, and here is your charter back. Because no one is making 100k a year for unattainable dues to go to a lodge to pay bills and nothing more.


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## CLewey44 (Jan 23, 2020)

Either raise dues or close lodges. The latter seems more common now... Masonry has to maintain a standard and it's simply not for everyone. It shouldn't be a burden on anyone financially but it also can't be cheapened down to dilapidated buildings/lodge rooms and Little Caesars on paper plates for the sake of staying open. That's where the image starts to hurt and people view it as a boring, supper club with funny handshakes. That's the image most younger non-masons view it as that Ive asked. It needs to feel special not a boring, time burden.


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## Glen Cook (Jan 24, 2020)

If I understand correctly, there is a building involved. Selling the building is not the same as closing the lodge.


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## Thomas Stright (Jan 24, 2020)

jermy Bell said:


> If you are paying high dues....



Define High.... Some think $120/yr is plenty but some think $350-$500 is the norm.
I beleive there is one lodge in the Dallas area that has what I call extreme fees and dues and is doing great. (Name escapes me tho...)


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## CLewey44 (Jan 24, 2020)

Glen Cook said:


> If I understand correctly, there is a building involved. Selling the building is not the same as closing the lodge.


Very true. Do you mean also absorbing lodges or just selling the building but then sharing a building with another lodge (or two) somewhere else? I've seen several buildings that share up to three different "Lodges" which when you think about it, is sort of silly or odd...to me anyways.


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## Glen Cook (Jan 24, 2020)

CLewey44 said:


> Very true. Do you mean also absorbing lodges or just selling the building but then sharing a building with another lodge (or two) somewhere else? I've seen several buildings that share up to three different "Lodges" which when you think about it, is sort of silly or odd...to me anyways.


I know of buildings with multiple lodges in them. The SLC Masonic Temple has six lodges. I can’t tell you how many are at Great Queen Street. Bunches. My HRA chapter in Cheshire meets at a building with at least three lodges. My Cheshire lodge meets in a building with four other Lodges.

But does it need to be a dedicated lodge building?  My UGLE lodge met for about 100 years at pubs and inns. One of the Cheshire lodges meets st the Alma Hotel.
Eltham Palace Lodge meets at the Eltham Palace Hotel. Christopher Diehl Lodge (Utah) sold their building and meets at a hotel. St Andrew’s lodge (Utah) meets today at the Alta Club.


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## Bill Lins (Jan 24, 2020)

CLewey44 said:


> I've seen several buildings that share up to three different "Lodges" which when you think about it, is sort of silly or odd...to me anyways.


Economically, it makes sense, particularly when there are multiple Lodges in near geographic proximity. It's quite common in Houston, Dallas, San Antonio, & Austin.


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## Bill Lins (Jan 24, 2020)

Glen Cook said:


> But does it need to be a dedicated lodge building?



It doesn't and shouldn't. My home Lodge sold our building in 2007 and met in the private dining room of a local restaurant for 4 years. It worked out very well for us until a Grand Master outlawed the practice.


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## TheThumbPuppy (Jan 24, 2020)

Glen Cook said:


> I can’t tell you how many are at Great Queen Street. Bunches



I was curious, so I googled it:

_Approximately 1800 lodges and chapters meet regularly in London, and a high proportion of these meet at Freemasons' Hall._ [Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freemasons'_Hall,_London)


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## Glen Cook (Jan 24, 2020)

TheThumbPuppy said:


> I was curious, so I googled it:
> 
> _Approximately 1800 lodges and chapters meet regularly in London, and a high proportion of these meet at Freemasons' Hall._ [Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freemasons'_Hall,_London)


This citation includes lodges _and_ chapters, and even accepting a a wiki cite, I’m not sure where “a high proportion “ gets us, but it definitely sounds like bunches. .


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## Brother JC (Jan 24, 2020)

Bill Lins said:


> It doesn't and shouldn't. My home Lodge sold our building in 2007 and met in the private dining room of a local restaurant for 4 years. It worked out very well for us until a Grand Master outlawed the practice.



Silly law. Best practices should be followed, not one mans idea of “tradition.”


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## TheThumbPuppy (Jan 25, 2020)

Bill Lins said:


> outlawed



Oh my! There have been quite a few pubs that hosted Masonic Lodges in the UK. Most famously the _St Dunstan and the Devil_ in Fleet Street, often referred to as _the Devil Tavern_.


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## Glen Cook (Jan 25, 2020)

Samuelmason said:


> Can meetings be held at any rooms??
> Regardless of the Masonic symbols and rituals?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using My Freemasonry mobile app


My UGLE lodge met for about 100 years at pubs and inns. One of the Cheshire lodges meets st the Alma Hotel.
Eltham Palace Lodge in London meets at the Eltham Palace Hotel. Christopher Diehl Lodge (Utah) sold their building and meets at a hotel. St Andrew’s lodge (Utah) met yesterday at the Alta Club.


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## Brother_Steve (Jan 25, 2020)

jermy Bell said:


> I belong a lodge that I really enjoy being apart of. We have our senior warden come back to lodge after 20 years and will be master this coming masonic year. We have exhausted most of our savings, and need to think about fund raisers, and also trying to become a thing in our community again. But we have one member that wants to spend money we don't have, but when we need to fix something or replace something, this member becomes Mr technical, and trys to make it sound like we are spending more money than we really would be. We have a new young member who has watched to many you tube videos on freemasonry, yet they let him waste time yapping about nothing during business meetings. When asking the new master coming in about any of this or old business that he will inherit, we get, well, I don't wanna step on anyone's toes, and all I'm here for is the friendship etc,etc. If you can't fix or choose to not address problems why become master ?


I have a have a policy in place. If you are going to make a motion, come to me before the meeting with what you're going to propose. We will talk about it. If it is bad for the lodge or it requires more thought, it won't be heard that night. 

I would always consult my wardens and part masters before flat out saying no. However, if you still stand up under new business, you're not going to be acknowledged unless I know you have other business that has been agreed upon.


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## Glen Cook (Jan 25, 2020)

Brother_Steve said:


> I have a have a policy in place. If you are going to make a motion, come to me before the meeting with what you're going to propose. We will talk about it. If it is bad for the lodge or it requires more thought, it won't be heard that night.
> 
> I would always consult my wardens and part masters before flat out saying no. However, if you still stand up under new business, you're not going to be acknowledged unless I know you have other business that has been agreed upon.


If, in your view, it is bad for the lodge, will it be heard eventually?


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## jermy Bell (Jan 25, 2020)

Brother_Steve said:


> I have a have a policy in place. If you are going to make a motion, come to me before the meeting with what you're going to propose. We will talk about it. If it is bad for the lodge or it requires more thought, it won't be heard that night.
> 
> I would always consult my wardens and part masters before flat out saying no. However, if you still stand up under new business, you're not going to be acknowledged unless I know you have other business that has been agreed upon.


Not good business. But like I've been told, it is up to the worshipful master to run his lodge as he sees fit. But I guess it only falls down to who will keep coming back for that masonic year and who won't be back at all.


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## Brother_Steve (Jan 26, 2020)

Glen Cook said:


> If, in your view, it is bad for the lodge, will it be heard eventually?


I bring everything like this before my wardens, secretary and treasurer so I get different viewpoints


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## Brother_Steve (Jan 26, 2020)

jermy Bell said:


> Not good business. But like I've been told, it is up to the worshipful master to run his lodge as he sees fit. But I guess it only falls down to who will keep coming back for that masonic year and who won't be back at all.


It's common courtesy to let the master know what you're thinking before a meeting. Sometimes certain things are proposed by a brother that is above and beyond the normal request for money.

IE we have a charity budget. All requests for charity get funnelled through the charity committee. They include me in their decision making. If they find it worthy and within reason, they present it to the lodge to be voted on.

Otherwise, we would have to entertain every motion for charity and spending can get out of control.


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## Glen Cook (Jan 26, 2020)

Brother_Steve said:


> I bring everything like this before my wardens, secretary and treasurer so I get different viewpoints


Ok. But the question remains: if in your view the motion is bad, will it ever come before the brethren?


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## Bill Lins (Jan 26, 2020)

Brother_Steve said:


> It's common courtesy to let the master know what you're thinking before a meeting. Sometimes certain things are proposed by a brother that is above and beyond the normal request for money.


While what you're saying is true, EVERY Brother has the right to speak. To deny a Brother his right is, to say the least, unMasonic. If you cannot have a civil discussion with differing viewpoints and maintain peace & harmony, you might want to rethink your style of "leadership".


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## jermy Bell (Jan 26, 2020)

Bill Lins said:


> While what you're saying is true, EVERY Brother has the right to speak. To deny a Brother his right is, to say the least, unMasonic. If you cannot have a civil discussion with differing viewpoints and maintain peace & harmony, you might want to rethink your style of "leadership".


SO MOTE IT BE !


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## Pointwithinacircle3 (Jan 26, 2020)

Bill Lins said:


> While what you're saying is true, EVERY Brother has the right to speak. To deny a Brother his right is, to say the least, unMasonic. If you cannot have a civil discussion with differing viewpoints and maintain peace & harmony, you might want to rethink your style of "leadership".


Um, are you sure?  My understanding is that no Mason has the right to speak in Lodge without the Worshipful Masters permission.  Also, that the WM can instantly gavel down any member at any time.  As I understand Masonic law, it is the WM job to direct and govern his Lodge as he sees fit.  I am interested in having one of your civil discussions with any one who has a differing opinion.


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## jermy Bell (Jan 26, 2020)

In our lodge, we are given the right by the worshipful master to make a motion, or discuss anything in open lodge. Some things you may not like, but you aren't beatin down and told to shut up. And actually in the end no one goes home mad. We are given a small amount of time to make our statement, and discussion, and then move on to other new business. But we all have a voice. In our lodge and we get a lot covered. But yes, the master has the right to not hear discussion, or continue it as old business.


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## Glen Cook (Jan 27, 2020)

Bill Lins said:


> While what you're saying is true, EVERY Brother has the right to speak. To deny a Brother his right is, to say the least, unMasonic. If you cannot have a civil discussion with differing viewpoints and maintain peace & harmony, you might want to rethink your style of "leadership".



I admit my own style of leadership has evolved over the years to one tending toward guidance and persuasion and structuring of the debate, rather than prohibiting discussion. Yes, in many Lodges* the master can prohibit discussion on legitimate matters. But is this style of leadership one that leads towards happiness within the lodge? 

Sometimes, people just wish to know that they have had a fair shake. To refuse them the opportunity to have their concern heard by their peers can lead to a sense of disenfranchisement, resentment, and a sense that they are of less worth. 

“There are, it may be, so many kinds of voices in the world, and none of them is without signification.”

1 Corinthians 14:10.

*Grand body sessions are more formal, but even in that venue the presiding officer may not refuse to hear matters properly raised, depending on the jurisdiction.


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## TheThumbPuppy (Jan 27, 2020)

Glen Cook said:


> Sometimes, people just wish to know that they have had a fair shake. To refuse them the opportunity to have their concern heard by their peers can lead to a sense of disenfranchisement, resentment, and a sense that they are of less worth.



I have no experience in leading a Lodge, but this is certainly true leading a team at work or in a volunteer organisation. I find that people most of all want to know that they have been heard. The majority is prepared to compromise and have their wishes postponed or rejected as long as they know that you've taken them seriously into consideration. A very small minority will end up disenfranchised and resentful no matter what you do.


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## Glen Cook (Jan 27, 2020)

TheThumbPuppy said:


> ....
> A very small minority will end up disenfranchised and resentful no matter what you do.



and, on occasion, some need to be disenfranchised.


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## Keith C (Jan 27, 2020)

While I understand the desirability of having anyone be heard, I also have seen meetings drag on for hours as anyone and everyone wants to bring up their pet project, complaint, charity or point of information.  There is ample time between and before meetings to approach the appropriate committees or the WM or one of the Wardens to bring up whatever issue you may have and want to discuss.  If a Brother stands and wants to discuss some proposal that has not been previously discussed preliminarily outside of the Tyled meeting, I will direct them to the appropriate Committee and the members thereof to discuss.  I won't "gavel someone down" but will ask if they discussed it with "X" committee and if they haven't I direct them to do so and have the Committee bring forth a motion if appropriate.


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## Bill Lins (Jan 27, 2020)

Pointwithinacircle3 said:


> Um, are you sure?  My understanding is that no Mason has the right to speak in Lodge without the Worshipful Masters permission.  Also, that the WM can instantly gavel down any member at any time.  As I understand Masonic law, it is the WM job to direct and govern his Lodge as he sees fit.  I am interested in having one of your civil discussions with any one who has a differing opinion.


Legally, the WM DOES have those powers. A *GOOD* WM will only use them extremely sparingly. A heavy-handed WM will learn the meaning of the phrase "voting with their feet" when he is sitting alone on his throne, wondering where his Brethren have gone. To lead by persuasion, after giving every Brother who so desires the opportunity to speak their piece, constitutes "best practice" in the East. The willingness to cheerfully accept a situation where one loses the vote is an admirable trait in a WM. "Servant leadership" should always be the goal in volunteer organizations such as our Fraternity.


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## jermy Bell (Jan 27, 2020)

Harmony being the strength and support of all institutions, especially ours.


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## Bill Lins (Jan 27, 2020)

A few years back, there arose some contention in one of my Lodges. Some *EVIL* PM, who shall remain nameless , stopped by the grocery store on the way to the next meeting. When Lodge was opened there was a can of peas & a can of hominy sitting upon the WM's podium as a not-so-subtle reminder to all. It worked.


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## jermy Bell (Jan 27, 2020)

What is the meaning behind it ?


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## Glen Cook (Jan 27, 2020)

jermy Bell said:


> What is the meaning behind it ?


It is an incredibly bad old man pun (we do those things).


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## jermy Bell (Jan 27, 2020)

Glen Cook said:


> It is an incredibly bad old man pun (we do those things).


Hmmmm. I've never heard of it. But I'm still just a kid at 48. Lol


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## Glen Cook (Jan 27, 2020)

Pointwithinacircle3 said:


> Um, are you sure?  My understanding is that no Mason has the right to speak in Lodge without the Worshipful Masters permission.  Also, that the WM can instantly gavel down any member at any time.  As I understand Masonic law, it is the WM job to direct and govern his Lodge as he sees fit.  I am interested in having one of your civil discussions with any one who has a differing opinion.


I can’t answer for every jurisdiction. In some jurisdictions the  “as he sees fit”  part has limitations. In my mother jurisdiction, a WM can have his jewel suspended, that is, his right to act removed.  If a WM was not allowing proper business to come to the floor, there could be a grievance filed for abuse of office.


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## TheThumbPuppy (Jan 27, 2020)

Bill Lins said:


> a can of peas & a can of hominy



The joke is wasted on me. Perhaps we don't have it over here.

I actually had to look up what _hominy_ is. Never heard it before.

Could the can of _peas_ have something to do with _peace_?

The only thing that I can think of that sounds like _and_ _hominy_ is _ad hominem_ (latin: to the man)

Am I getting warmer?

Where's an EVIL PM when you need one?

EDIT: could it be _and hominy_ = _domini _?

EDIT2: ok, I got it, it's _harmony_, isn't ? Sorry for being sooo slow. My excuse is that it's sleepy time over here.

EDIT3: What do I win? : )


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## Pointwithinacircle3 (Jan 27, 2020)

Take a bowl, fill it half full of water, add peas and stir briskly. Now you know how to visualize whirled peas.


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## TheThumbPuppy (Jan 27, 2020)

Is hominy something typically Texan? In the UK, I've never seen it in a supermarket.

I could get a can of corn, but the joke wouldn't work – peas and corn?


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## Glen Cook (Jan 27, 2020)

TheThumbPuppy said:


> Is hominy something typically Texan? In the UK, I've never seen it in a supermarket.
> 
> I could get a can of corn, but the joke wouldn't work – peas and corn?


Not limited to Texas.  I’ve never seen it, or grits, in the UK.  When my parents ran the Masonic Home for the Aged in Guthrie, Oklahoma, grits were expected.


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## TheThumbPuppy (Jan 28, 2020)

Glen Cook said:


> I’ve never seen it, or grits, in the UK.



Darn, we miss all the good food over here ! : )


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## Glen Cook (Jan 28, 2020)

TheThumbPuppy said:


> Darn, we miss all the good food over here ! : )


Cheesy grits with shrimp (prawns ) is mighty tasty.


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## Brother_Steve (Jan 28, 2020)

Keith C said:


> While I understand the desirability of having anyone be heard, I also have seen meetings drag on for hours as anyone and everyone wants to bring up their pet project, complaint, charity or point of information.  There is ample time between and before meetings to approach the appropriate committees or the WM or one of the Wardens to bring up whatever issue you may have and want to discuss.  If a Brother stands and wants to discuss some proposal that has not been previously discussed preliminarily outside of the Tyled meeting, I will direct them to the appropriate Committee and the members thereof to discuss.  I won't "gavel someone down" but will ask if they discussed it with "X" committee and if they haven't I direct them to do so and have the Committee bring forth a motion if appropriate.


pretty much what we do. I took the East and stuck with what works for our lodge as it has been done that way in the past since I joined. The members are happy and used to that method.


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## bro.william (Jan 30, 2020)

Glen Cook said:


> Not limited to Texas.  I’ve never seen it, or grits, in the UK.  When my parents ran the Masonic Home for the Aged in Guthrie, Oklahoma, grits were expected.



You can get grits (and sometimes dried hominy) in asian/indian/pakistani supermarkets in big bags. East End brand is what my local sells. My Welsh-born boys regard cheesy grits as both comfort food and a breakfast staple. 

As to the topic at hand, I don’t have experience chairing masonic things, but ample experience with parish councils. My policy is to give everyone his or her due, but not to set myself up to be blindsided. In other words, everyone has the right to speak, but i have the right to shepherd.

Standard practice is to require Any Other Business items to be presented seven days prior to the meeting.  And the proposer must be there. (You’d be surprised how often I get a note from the secretary saying “Thus and such can’t be there, but they want us to talk about ...”  The answer is no; you don't get to just assign me tasks for your own entertainment.) 

I can often be persuaded to admit items at shorter notice because I try to be generous. But the policy is there not to slap people down. rather it’s there to (a) ensure that things better talked about privately or in committee are directed to those places before they arrive at the full council (if they even need to after being dealt with elsewhere), (b) allow me to think, consider, and prepare a response (or at least know where the meeting is likely to head), and (c) allow me to manage the meeting effectively.  basically, everyone will be heard and should be heard. but i think it’s ok to ask them to take their proper turn, and to respect the chair.


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## jermy Bell (Jan 30, 2020)

I know this is off topic, but I've read older threads and someone tries to sneak in some kind of food references to or about , maybe someone should start a recipe thread. Lol


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## Brother_Steve (Jan 31, 2020)

Glen Cook said:


> I can’t answer for every jurisdiction. In some jurisdictions the  “as he sees fit”  part has limitations. In my mother jurisdiction, a WM can have his jewel suspended, that is, his right to act removed.  If a WM was not allowing proper business to come to the floor, there could be a grievance filed for abuse of office.



A Lodge cannot prescribe the duties of the Worshipful Master. (In New Jersey)

However, a Master that exercises his gavel too often will have an empty Lodge.

A Brother can stand up, but the Master does not have to recognize him. (I'm not saying it is right, but it is the Master's pleasure to do so if it is warranted.)

A Brother can make a motion. It can be seconded. The Master can gavel it down before it goes to a vote. (See above regarding duties)

A Master can Make, Second and Pass any motion. (Again, you will have an empty Lodge)

I can navigate the Edicts, Rules and Regulations of Grand Lodge, the By-Laws of my Lodge and be a dictator without repercussion. However, a Master that exercises this practice will have an empty Lodge room.


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## Bill Lins (Jan 31, 2020)

To build upon the above- it is easier to stay @ home than it is to go to Lodge. WMs, don't make things easier for your Brethren- give them reasons to come to Lodge, not to stay away.


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## GaTnMason (Feb 1, 2020)

Being elected WM of a lodge is not for every brother. It’s a long rugged road and  you must be a team player. We’re  not supposed to have politics in the lodge correct??. Well you start going thru chairs and the closer you get to becoming Worshipful Master you will see it happen, at least I did in my lodge. I’m the last generation of masons  in my family. My brother and grandfathers did not have a chance to go through the line and be a WM. I have set bar higher and this year i am serving as WM of my lodge. I have had deal with lot of ****  to get there. I’m the first new WM of my lodge in 5 years. Recycling PM cause no one wanted to be WM. WM is responsible for everything during his year whether he has a part in it or not cause he is WM of the lodge. Like I said earlier it’s not a position for every brother. I have had to let many things just roll off since I was  junior warden and senior warden to be the WM.


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## Brother JC (Feb 4, 2020)

GaTnMason said:


> Being elected WM of a lodge is not for every brother. It’s a long rugged road and  you must be a team player. We’re  not supposed to have politics in the lodge correct??. Well you start going thru chairs and the closer you get to becoming Worshipful Master you will see it happen, at least I did in my lodge. I’m the last generation of masons  in my family. My brother and grandfathers did not have a chance to go through the line and be a WM. I have set bar higher and this year i am serving as WM of my lodge. I have had deal with lot of ****  to get there. I’m the first new WM of my lodge in 5 years. Recycling PM cause no one wanted to be WM. WM is responsible for everything during his year whether he has a part in it or not cause he is WM of the lodge. Like I said earlier it’s not a position for every brother. I have had to let many things just roll off since I was  junior warden and senior warden to be the WM.


I didn't even need to go through the chairs to see lodge politics in action, and when I did I saw Grand Lodge politics in action...
As to your first line it is absolutely true. Some of us are far better equipped to whisper good counsel. And some of us are wise enough to realize it.


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## Brother_Steve (Feb 6, 2020)

Brother JC said:


> I didn't even need to go through the chairs to see lodge politics in action, and when I did I saw Grand Lodge politics in action...
> As to your first line it is absolutely true. Some of us are far better equipped to whisper good counsel. And some of us are wise enough to realize it.


I think I was lucky. I see the Grand Lodge aspect, however there was not any politics in my lodge. We went through the chairs, we all got along very well and we did what had to be done and enjoyed our time doing it.


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## Bloke (Feb 6, 2020)

jermy Bell said:


> That seems to be the quickest answer. Raise the dues. We are at $55. And some say I pay over $200-300 . for that kind of money I hope your getting entertainment with dinner. If we keep raising dues to fix all the problems, it'll be like grand lodge. You will only have maybe 2 lodges in your state with a handful of 80 year olds. And the death of freemasonry dying with them. What gets me is that in today's world if you wanna play, how much are you willing to pay, then with no new members or interest, you have nothing but a memory. So start thinking outside your deep wallets



Our Lodge Dues are $250 AUD with GL $125. Our Lodge is part owner of the building. We pay rent, but that's the only financial contribution the lodge makes to the Building OR that the building seeks - we ask for co-operation and labour, but that's not cleaning, its generally business acumen in properly administering the hall and to see it generate an income to funds its operating expenses. Lodge dues are for running the Lodge, not the building. The Lodge does not pay a peppercorn rent anymore, but have long recognized that income derived from Lodges and Masonic Activity will not fund the building. Our biggest project over the last decade (as we have done a quite a few) was probably about $30K. Lodge rent is not going to fund that, so the building must generate an income and seek grants from other sources, mainly external users. 

The Lodge and the Building Association (once a Trust but we converted it into a better structure) are run by two distinct legal entities with distinct roles and officers. Discussions on one generally do not enter the official meetings of the other, but sometimes they write to each other with requests, suggestions and information. 

The main discussion which is useful in a Tyled Lodge is philosophical. Other discussions should be encouraged outside the lodge, and if necessary at specific meetings to talk about operational matters, for both the Lodge (being a separate meeting, WM generally presiding) and the Building (being a separate meeting again, President, a PM, presiding). Speculative Freemasons should not be talking roof repairs or plumbing works in their meeting.. that's for other forums and mixing the two sees competing goals, often with long and tedious "contributions" of very little worth. They are counterproductive. its a good way to kill a lodge.

If you want to address the building, keep it out of your Lodge meetings.. and lodge meetings, when it comes to any operational matter, should be to ratify a decision already thrashed out in other inclusive and open forums.


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## Brother_Steve (Feb 7, 2020)

Bloke said:


> Our Lodge Dues are $250 AUD with GL $125. Our Lodge is part owner of the building. We pay rent, but that's the only financial contribution the lodge makes to the Building OR that the building seeks - we ask for co-operation and labour, but that's not cleaning, its generally business acumen in properly administering the hall and to see it generate an income to funds its operating expenses. Lodge dues are for running the Lodge, not the building. The Lodge does not pay a peppercorn rent anymore, but have long recognized that income derived from Lodges and Masonic Activity will not fund the building. Our biggest project over the last decade (as we have done a quite a few) was probably about $30K. Lodge rent is not going to fund that, so the building must generate an income and seek grants from other sources, mainly external users.
> 
> The Lodge and the Building Association (once a Trust but we converted it into a better structure) are run by two distinct legal entities with distinct roles and officers. Discussions on one generally do not enter the official meetings of the other, but sometimes they write to each other with requests, suggestions and information.
> 
> ...


I love this. I have to look into promoting this. I'll also have to look into the legal aspects of it. We were forced to consolidate our Craftmans's Club account with our Lodge account by Grand Lodge. This meant that any money spent during our CC meetings had to be motioned for in a tyled meeting. So, as it stands now, any lodge repair has to be discussed in a tyled lodge...


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## Keith C (Feb 7, 2020)

Brother_Steve said:


> I love this. I have to look into promoting this. I'll also have to look into the legal aspects of it. We were forced to consolidate our Craftmans's Club account with our Lodge account by Grand Lodge. This meant that any money spent during our CC meetings had to be motioned for in a tyled meeting. So, as it stands now, any lodge repair has to be discussed in a tyled lodge...



Very similar scheme here.  The Hall Association manages the building and the Lodge pays rent to the Hall Association, as do the HRA Chapter and Commandery  for use of the building.  The Hall Association can spend the money they collect in rent on upkeep of the building without a Lodge vote, but any major expenditures require the Lodge to vote to move funds from a Trustee fund to the Hall Association.  So fixing a toilet or replacing a light fixture, etc do not need to be discussed in Lodge, replacing the roof, redoing the mortar on the building exterior, replacing windows, renovating the Lodge Room, Social Hall or Kitchen need to be discussed and voted on in Lodge.


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## Bloke (Feb 9, 2020)

Brother_Steve said:


> I love this. I have to look into promoting this. I'll also have to look into the legal aspects of it. We were forced to consolidate our Craftmans's Club account with our Lodge account by Grand Lodge. This meant that any money spent during our CC meetings had to be motioned for in a tyled meeting. So, as it stands now, any lodge repair has to be discussed in a tyled lodge...


Be careful to linking it to a single Master's term.. it might take longer to properly manage the stakeholders, but also the Constitution (Rules of Association or what ever you need for the building in the State) must give the lodge members comfort the building will still be controlled by Freemasons and that the long term preservation of the building in Masonic Hands with Masonic Presence is key. Ironically, that often means our lodges are put second behind external hirers, esp when it comes to capital investment, but we're building for sustainability, not the comfort of needs of the Freemasons of today, but don't consider the latter and manage it, and you will loose the support of your stake holders. For me it was easy, "We can have quiet enjoyment of our building for a few years and see a For Sale Sign, or be inconvenience and many even suffer some damage to the hall, but we will have the cash to fix it, and be able to hand on our building to future generations". 

We need to see ourselves as custodians of the future, not owners of assets. We need to turn them actually into assets, rather than liabilities.


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## Brother_Steve (Feb 10, 2020)

Bloke said:


> Be careful to linking it to a single Master's term.. it might take longer to properly manage the stakeholders, but also the Constitution (Rules of Association or what ever you need for the building in the State) must give the lodge members comfort the building will still be controlled by Freemasons and that the long term preservation of the building in Masonic Hands with Masonic Presence is key. Ironically, that often means our lodges are put second behind external hirers, esp when it comes to capital investment, but we're building for sustainability, not the comfort of needs of the Freemasons of today, but don't consider the latter and manage it, and you will loose the support of your stake holders. For me it was easy, "We can have quiet enjoyment of our building for a few years and see a For Sale Sign, or be inconvenience and many even suffer some damage to the hall, but we will have the cash to fix it, and be able to hand on our building to future generations".
> 
> We need to see ourselves as custodians of the future, not owners of assets. We need to turn them actually into assets, rather than liabilities.


I was thinking of an Entity or Corporation where the WM, IPM and Three elected Members of the Lodge run the building. From there, the Lodge would pay a nominal fee to rent from the Entity. The "Entity" would then be free to make investments for the building over the long term without fear of the Lodge Membership voting to spend or raid those funds.


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## jermy Bell (Feb 10, 2020)

I still see that as a bad idea. From what I see, we want to sell our temples, lodges, consolidate 10 lodges into one, so you don't have to worry about nothing anymore. I see in maybe 20 years, or less that we will meet on a forum like this, and traditional freemasonry with its rituals will be gone like the dodo bird.


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## Bloke (Feb 12, 2020)

Brother_Steve said:


> I was thinking of an Entity or Corporation where the WM, IPM and Three elected Members of the Lodge run the building. From there, the Lodge would pay a nominal fee to rent from the Entity. The "Entity" would then be free to make investments for the building over the long term without fear of the Lodge Membership voting to spend or raid those funds.


Keep the WM out of it. Maybe an IPM - but most of our active building guys were MMs... you don't need dudes who know ritual, You need men who know how to run a commercial enterprise. Turn over and retirements in the board should be as per any other Company or NFP. Our best recent pickup in the last two years was appointed when a FC. The only thing I would have is 75% of the membership of the Committee (or Board) running the building should be Freemasons who meet in the building. We use 100% and co-opt others - but those others voting rights and are often there just as advisors.. nothing stops that group forming a subcommittee of non-Freemasons - they could be wives for instance.. In another (sophisticated and very commercial) Company I am involved in (non-masonic) we have a shadow youth board... there are lots of ways to approach this...



Brother_Steve said:


> ...The "Entity" would then be free to make investments for the building over the long term without fear of the Lodge Membership voting to spend or raid those funds.


A great idea. Another reason why a WM should not be on the Board..


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## Pointwithinacircle3 (Feb 12, 2020)

jermy Bell said:


> I still see that as a bad idea. From what I see, we want to sell our temples, lodges, consolidate 10 lodges into one, so you don't have to worry about nothing anymore. I see in maybe 20 years, or less that we will meet on a forum like this, and traditional freemasonry with its rituals will be gone like the dodo bird.


It seems to me that the rituals serve a purpose that cannot be accomplished by an Internet forum.


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## jermy Bell (Feb 12, 2020)

True, but when you can no longer afford dues that are the same price as a landrover payment, and you can't get new members, and everyone trying to sell off their lodge, so they don't have to maintain them, and, and, everything is being on line, I see it inevitable.


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## Pointwithinacircle3 (Feb 12, 2020)

jermy Bell said:


> True, but when you can no longer afford dues that are the same price as a landrover payment, and you can't get new members, and everyone trying to sell off their lodge, so they don't have to maintain them, and, and, everything is being on line, I see it inevitable.


What do you believe the work of the Lodge to be?  How can this work be accomplished on an Internet forum?


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## jermy Bell (Feb 12, 2020)

I would ask those who are trying to abolish freemasonry from within. The ones who want to raise dues so high no one but a select few can afford. Ask the ones who are desperately trying to sell off our temples and lodges. These are the so called brothers who hold the answers and the future of our craft in their selfish hands. the rituals and obligations are loosing their purpose and meaning. They have become motions and empty words to many anymore, in the past couple of years I see it more and more.


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## Glen Cook (Feb 12, 2020)

jermy Bell said:


> I would ask those who are trying to abolish freemasonry from within. The ones who want to raise dues so high no one but a select few can afford. Ask the ones who are desperately trying to sell off our temples and lodges. These are the so called brothers who hold the answers and the future of our craft in their selfish hands. the rituals and obligations are loosing their purpose and meaning. They have become motions and empty words to many anymore, in the past couple of years I see it more and more.


I would be gentler in my critique. As a rule, we have the same goals for Freemasonry.  We often have different methods of getting to those goals.  Ad hominem arguments, labeling those who disagree as “so called brothers” and selfish, does not advance us toward the goals, and certainly not toward the brotherhood that is thought to be missing.


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## Pointwithinacircle3 (Feb 12, 2020)

jermy Bell said:


> I would ask those who are trying to abolish freemasonry from within. The ones who want to raise dues so high no one but a select few can afford. Ask the ones who are desperately trying to sell off our temples and lodges. These are the so called brothers who hold the answers and the future of our craft in their selfish hands. the rituals and obligations are loosing their purpose and meaning. They have become motions and empty words to many anymore, in the past couple of years I see it more and more.


Brother, I do not wish to seem argumentative, but you did not answer my question. I asked the question for a specific reason. Without the knowledge of what you are searching for no reply I can make will be of much use.  I believe it was Seneca who said “Unless one knows to what port one is sailing no wind is favorable”.

A more modern poet put it this way:

Some ships sail east, and some sail west
On the self same wind that blows
Tis the set of the sail, and not the gale
That determines which way she goes

It took me many years to discover that I could set my sail against the winds which batter Freemasonry.  Sailing against the wind takes more skill and effort than running with the wind.  But it does allow me to reach any destination I choose.  Hence my question: What work do you wish to accomplish?


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## Brother_Steve (Feb 14, 2020)

jermy Bell said:


> True, but when you can no longer afford dues that are the same price as a landrover payment, and you can't get new members, and everyone trying to sell off their lodge, so they don't have to maintain them, and, and, everything is being on line, I see it inevitable.


Where are you a member that costs 700 a year?

As a counter point: My Grand Lodge dues in the 1800's were 22 a year. That translates to 450 a year if you calculate inflation. As of right now, my dues are 65 a year to Grand Lodge and another 105 to my Lodge for a total of 170~

The curve is in my favor ... for now.


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