# Why do people leave/ become inactive?



## Lowcarbjc (Aug 8, 2013)

Was just wondering about the question in the topic. 

Do people go through the degrees until MM and maybe even side degrees and get the teachings like someone who goes to university and learn the things, and then leave because they have now learned the main "basics" of what can be learned at lodge level, or what would the general reasons be? 


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## Michael Hatley (Aug 8, 2013)

They don't get made into a vampire or a werewolf and figure fish fries and wrangling over who mows the grass is a poor substitute :51:


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## Mlugo1247 (Aug 8, 2013)

Mike your funny bro lol. In my experiences they leave due to typical day to day life struggles. 


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## forever_young (Aug 8, 2013)

Mlugo1247 said:


> Mike your funny bro lol. In my experiences they leave due to typical day to day life struggles.
> 
> 
> Freemason Connect HD



My brother


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## Jericho2013 (Aug 8, 2013)

Wait... I thought I would be a vampire when I got to the 33rd deg.??  Dangit!!!


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## JJones (Aug 8, 2013)

Michael Hatley said:


> They don't get made into a vampire or a werewolf and figure fish fries and wrangling over who mows the grass is a poor substitute :51:



I was led to believe that I'd receive my share of the templar treasure every lodge has in their hidden basement after I became a MM. :1:

Still waiting on that check...

On a more serious note though, there is a wide range of reasons for people to go inactive but I personally feel the biggest reason is the disappointment from each lodge not living up to the expectations of the new brother...I know that's why I went inactive for a few years after being raised.  Many people join expecting something marvelous but end up with something that appears mundane on the surface...poor ritual, a wide open west gate, and fish fries are part of the culprit.


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## Lowcarbjc (Aug 8, 2013)

Some funny replies. Well, my initiation is on the 17th (next Saturday) and I have decided if they don't give me an opportunity to feet the goat some of the cabbage I'm bringing with, I'm leaving! No way I pay for the cabbage and don't get an opportunity like everyone else 


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## JTM (Aug 8, 2013)

Burnout is a big reason.


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## rpbrown (Aug 8, 2013)

We have had several "older" members stop coming for a while. After a few years of contacting them, I had one ask me if the lodge had gotten any younger. I looked puzzled but informed him that yes, we had indeed become younger and with more members. He stated that one of the reasons that he stopped coming was that when he did come, he would have to take a chair and he had served 6 years as the master and was tired, as was a lot of the older members. I assured him that we have a full slate of officers and several in the wings to take the chairs in years to come. The very next week, there were 6 of these gentlemen that came, some of which I had never seen. They were all dues paying, card carrying members just never came for fear they may have to serve as an officer again. They all said they had grown weary of the officers and wanted to be "just members". Told them to have a seat and watch the show.
Had a great night and they taught me so much that one night that I look forward to seeing them next week.


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## Mac (Aug 8, 2013)

Some people don't find what they're looking for on the other side of the door.  They find "Rotary with a ritual" when they expected a pseudo-religious experience, or they find a pseudo-religious experience when they wanted Rotary with a ritual.  Freemasonry, for better or worse, is not a uniform organization with cookie cutter chapters all doing the same thing.  I recommend people approach a lodge when they're interested in joining, but perhaps I should consider tempering that recommendation with "but make sure that lodge is the kind of lodge you want to join."


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## robert leachman (Aug 8, 2013)

I became inactive for several reasons:
Moved out of neighborhood-though my Lodge is on the way home from work

My kids are young and I'm needed at home

Promotion and shift change at work

Mandatory overtime at work 





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## PM Fendrick Gabaud (Aug 8, 2013)

I believe that some people just get tired of all the BS that goes on in the lodge or grand lodge? The older member need to sit back and let the young brother take over the lodge. It's a new generation now, and I strongly believe that the young are tired of the old?? 


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## FlBrother324 (Aug 8, 2013)

Jericho2013 said:


> Wait... I thought I would be a vampire when I got to the 33rd deg.??  Dangit!!!



Sorry Brother, but you need to get to the 66th Degree to become a werewolf ! Better luck next time. Lol


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## PM Fendrick Gabaud (Aug 8, 2013)

Sorry bro FIBrother324, try 98th degree. Lol


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## stevens43 (Aug 8, 2013)

So you telling me I'm not going to be a werewolf. I'm so disappointed now. Just kidding around.i love masonry I think no I know it was the best choice I made beside join the military. I put my masonic working tools to work from day one and still putting in work at my lodge. I was in the senior  steward chair and now in the filling in for SD chair 


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## FlBrother324 (Aug 8, 2013)

Lowcarbjc said:


> Was just wondering about the question in the topic.
> 
> Do people go through the degrees until MM and maybe even side degrees and get the teachings like someone who goes to university and learn the things, and then leave because they have now learned the main "basics" of what can be learned at lodge level, or what would the general reasons be?
> 
> ...



All joking aside,  

One reason for new Brothers leaving Blue Lodge is because they aren't being given any type of fulfilling duties within the Lodge. This is especially true in the bigger Lodges, where some of the "old guard" seem to run most committees, not giving the newer Brothers an opportunity for reasonable advancements.  

Some joined to be part of something bigger than themselves, they want to participate and be accepted amongst the Brethren, and they haven't seen that from the Brothers.

There have been some cases in our district where they have joined just to be part of appended bodies, spending only minimal physical time at their Blue Lodge, but still maintaining membership in good standing. Though this may be frustrating as a Blue Lodge Brother, ask yourself this: aren't they still doing Masonic work in those appended Bodies? 

That is why Masonry must be a "calling" for an individual, a way of life, not something you do a few times a month.
Learning to find one's  path to Light in Masonry is a "Life's Journey" not a day or weekend trip. You must decide the right path for yourself, while having the guidance of the Brethren to help educate you along the way, otherwise you will go elsewhere to find Light. 

You will only get out of it what you put into it, but at the same time you can't let it consume you either. Like anything we do in life we must stay balanced.

Yours in His service.


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## Txmason (Aug 8, 2013)

I would also say the cost of dues. 


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## PM Fendrick Gabaud (Aug 8, 2013)

Wow! Bro, FIBrother324 said it best. I totally agree! 


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## Aeelorty (Aug 8, 2013)

So what body do I join to become a vamp because i am getting impatient


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## Mac (Aug 8, 2013)

Aeelorty said:


> So what body do I join to become a vamp because i am getting impatient



I think the group you're looking for meets in the park at dusk.  The meetings end when the ring leader's mom picks everyone up and drops them off at home.


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## Aeelorty (Aug 9, 2013)

> I think the group you're looking for meets in the park at dusk. The meetings end when the ring leader's mom picks everyone up and drops them off at home.



sweet homie now i can get what i always wanted from masonry, that is an excuse for why i am so pale. Now no one can make fun of me!


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## Brother_Steve (Aug 9, 2013)

Some may watch shows on the History Channel and feel that being a Freemason is cryptic in some way and that you will be shown the underbelly of society.

I watched a three hour Youtube documentary "Freemasons Revealed" and some of the claims by anti masons are ... wow.

Now, who knows what goes on in individual lodges? Freemasonry in and of itself is innocent. It is the man or men that shape it to their will and doing whether overtly or subversively.

Once one discovers that the water and utility bills are of top priority, they might become disenchanted.

The best thing for a lodge is education officers and contacts to get outside speakers in.

Our WM likes to take our lodge to travel to other lodges in our district to maintain contacts for that very purpose. I have yet to do this as I was raised the last night before going dark but look forward to a travel night.


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## Aeelorty (Aug 9, 2013)

Freemasonry is cryptic and pretending it is not is detrimental to the craft. If freemasonry is not cryptic then there is little value in it.


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## Brother_Steve (Aug 9, 2013)

Aeelorty said:


> Freemasonry is cryptic and pretending it is not is detrimental to the craft. If freemasonry is not cryptic then there is little value in it.


I agree it is cryptic but I think it is cryptic in its own right and not the way it is portrayed by sensationalistic shows.


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## cemab4y (Aug 9, 2013)

There are many reasons why men join the Craft, and then drop out. I find it interesting (but sad) that more men leave due to resignations, demits, and suspension for non-payment of dues, than leave due to death. See  http://www.freemasoninformation.com/2009/06/there’s-a-hole-in-our-bucket/ 

Dues are cheap, (in most cases) dues have not kept up with inflation. My lodge charges $85 per year, which in inflation-adjusted dollars, is less than what it was in 1930. Lodges often have fund-raisers to meet their expenses. So there is no reason to blame costs for men dropping out.

I believe that if a man does not get "value" for the money and time that he invests in Freemasonry, he will leave. If a man finds his masonic experience valuable, and he derives enjoyment from Masonry, he will be coming back.


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## Aeelorty (Aug 9, 2013)

I think it is a mix of feeling out of place, disappointment and other obligations. Any multifaceted problem needs a multifaceted solution.


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## Brian Morton (Aug 9, 2013)

JJones said:


> I was led to believe that I'd receive my share of the templar treasure every lodge has in their hidden basement after I became a MM. :1:
> 
> Still waiting on that check...
> 
> On a more serious note though, there is a wide range of reasons for people to go inactive but I personally feel the biggest reason is the disappointment from each lodge not living up to the expectations of the new brother...I know that's why I went inactive for a few years after being raised.  Many people join expecting something marvelous but end up with something that appears mundane on the surface...poor ritual, a wide open west gate, and fish fries are part of the culprit.



I concur,  in the words of Ben and Jerry "if it's not fun why do it?"

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## coachn (Aug 9, 2013)

Lowcarbjc said:


> Was just wondering about the question in the topic.
> 
> Do people go through the degrees until MM and maybe even side degrees and get the teachings like someone who goes to university and learn the things, and then leave because they have now learned the main "basics" of what can be learned at lodge level, or what would the general reasons be?
> 
> ...



Aside from participating in ritual and hanging out with good men, there are no functional educational aspects to the Lodge that actually make good men better. Many do not come back because they come to find that they are expected to run the gym and keep the equipment maintained rather than get the Workouts and education that they signed up for.


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## Kaseman (Aug 9, 2013)

I believe in many thing for the reason. I have heard air of them. Getting into position brothers help learning the teaching or lack there of. My concern in my area you here a lot about the work our Shriner brothers do in the area but never the blue lodge. My understanding is out lodges are suppose to very active in our community and I just don't see that happening. Making connection with other brother to help. It's even harder for me now because my lodge is on hour away from where I live son there is no involvement for me. I have high aspiration on why I would like to do in masonry but I am concern. That's when money becomes an issue when I can't justify in me what I am getting back is worth it. I hope to transfer lodges and be reenergized. I want to finish my journey an reach my original goal in the York rite and Scottish rite so brother pray for me as I struggle in my journey.


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## jwhoff (Aug 9, 2013)

Should one look to the lodge to keep him devoted to masonry he is barking up the wrong tree.  Masonry is best learned in those quiet, introspective times when you stand face-to-face with yourself and the GOATU.  I have taken to teaching other members of my lodge to do the degree parts and be active participants while I lend them encouragement from the sideline.  This will keep them involved for a period of time.  And, hopefully that extra time will bring a few to the discovery of masonry.  Even that is not assured to keep them active.  Sad as it may be, I am a believer that there may just be too many men in masonry.  Maybe it should be a smaller group and a tighter nit organization.  Yes, I think we should have special evenings where we talk, discuss, and offer masonry to those brothers most interested who do not, for whatever reason, search for themselves.  AND there are those magic moments that come around three or four times a year (IF YOU BELONG TO AN EXCEPTIONAL LODGE) when masonry pops up like a bright sunny day.  For these I live and for these I never fail to be in a lodge room somewhere at least twice a week.  Yes, my wife will tell you those two-a-weeks are rare.  She'd rather dwell on those as frequent four-night weeks.  She thinks I am a lodge room junkie!  hmy:


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## widows son (Aug 10, 2013)

I think most people leave the lodge is because of lack of Masonic education. Our fraternity is founded on ancient principles and philosophies that have in some way shape or form, existed from time immemorial. Our ritual is of a great importance to our Craft and within it contains these teachings. To disregard this and make it as one brother put it "Rotary with a ritual" then the very reason for the ritual is not needed. Giving to charity and helping the community comes with living the life of a Master Mason, but is not the sole focus for his reason to be a Master Mason. 

We need to educate our new brothers so they can perpetuate the Craft into the future, and to do so without diverging from the time honored standards that has been maintained since its inception. The ancient philosophies and principles that are within our ritual are what legitimize our Craft, and without education on those teachings we only serve to dilute its existence. 

I know too many Masons that would much rather fly through a meeting, not have any education, just to go and have some refreshment.  This bothers me as a young Mason. I did not become a Mason to find another venue to have drinks and eat mediocre food, when I have plenty of friend to do that with already. I really do enjoy the fellowship with my brothers and enjoy having drinks and eating mediocre food with them, but it seems that everything else is emphasized except the education. 

I try to do my part by bringing in some work, but is usually someone else's work, however I am working in my writing skills and am trying to produce something of my own. I think if I didn't have a previous background knowledge of Freemasonry prior to joining, I would have left by now. But my love for what Masonry is, or at least what I think it is, has kept me from leaving.


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## dfreybur (Aug 11, 2013)

widows son said:


> I think most people leave the lodge is because of lack of Masonic education. Our fraternity is founded on ancient principles and philosophies that have in some way shape or form, existed from time immemorial....



Some lodges have tried education and were successful.  Other lodges have tried it with no success.  The only pattern I see is the amount of direct personal mentoring has an effect of attendance.

Many men seem to join so they can be a part of our history.  I'm okay with cashing their dues checks.  many men join because it is required so they can join an appendent body.  I'm okay with cashing their checks.

I joined for the civic activities.  There are some of those.  I kept coming back for the fellowship.  Men with highly social jobs don't need that.


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## widows son (Aug 12, 2013)

"Some lodges have tried education and were successful. Other lodges have tried it with no success. The only pattern I see is the amount of direct personal mentoring has an effect of attendance."

• I couldn't agree more. I think both mentoring and education are two side of the same coin, and when one side lacks so will the other. If an experienced and knowledgable Mason is not willing to imparting his knowledge for the good of the order, what drive will he have to mentor the newly made Masons? It just seems like a waste if all this experienced is gained and its not put to good use. Masonic knowledge is only good when other Masons learn from it. 

"Many men seem to join so they can be a part of our history. I'm okay with cashing their dues checks. many men join because it is required so they can join an appendent body. I'm okay with cashing their checks."

• the problem is if those are the only reasons why someone wants to join. It is hard to know just what the end result of being in the fraternity is if you are not a Mason, but I think there is enough info out there to suggest that it's not just a fork and knife club.


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## dfreybur (Aug 13, 2013)

widows son said:


> We need to educate our new brothers so they can perpetuate the Craft into the future, and to do so without diverging from the time honored standards that has been maintained since its inception. The ancient philosophies and principles that are within our ritual are what legitimize our Craft, and without education on those teachings we only serve to dilute its existence.



To me this sounds like "More masonry in men".



> I know too many Masons that would much rather fly through a meeting, not have any education, just to go and have some refreshment.  This bothers me as a young Mason. I did not become a Mason to find another venue to have drinks and eat mediocre food, when I have plenty of friend to do that with already. I really do enjoy the fellowship with my brothers and enjoy having drinks and eating mediocre food with them, but it seems that everything else is emphasized except the education.



To me this sounds like "More men in Masonry".

When discussing "More Masonry in men" versus "More men in Masonry" we really do need both.  It's like discussing if the purpose of a lodge is to make more Masons.  Of course that's the purpose of a lodge.  Without that we're the last generation of Masons.  But the expression of "making Masons" means something more than the degrees.

When we were a candidate our purpose was more men in Masonry, ourselves.  When we were an EA and FC our purpose was more Masonry in men, ourselves.  Remember that the date of our Master Mason degree is called our "Masonic birthday".  Our journey goes from our life leading up to becoming a MM to our life living as a MM.  We reboot into a new spiritual life and the whole question starts over.  We learn about masonry, more Masonry in men.  We offer petitions, more men in Masonry.  We go through the line and/or the degree team and our duty is to move the lodge into the future, more men in Masonry.  We mentor new brothers, more Masonry in men.  And all the while we live our lives out in the mundane world acting with more Masonry in ourselves hopefully with the side effect that someone will petition because they have observed our example and wish to be among men like us.

So why do men lose interest?  Maybe because some lodges or Masons don't do that.  Maybe because some lodges or Masons *do* do that but in ways that aren't visible on the surface so it doesn't get noticed.  And without noticing what's going on they lose interest.  Although smooth waters run deep smooth waters aren't interesting.


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## bjdeverell (Aug 14, 2013)

I'm with most of you in my belief that it's the lack of education. The catechism is nice but let's face it; you aren't learning Masonry, you're learning the Degrees. My downfall is that my Lodge is in a town of about 500, so most of our Brothers are old and don't see any need in teaching beyond the catechism. Also, in such a small town, all the young men move away as soon as they graduate high school and never look back so there isn't really anyone remotely in my age group of which I can identify on a personal level. These are the main problems I think that are hurting Lodges everywhere. Lack of education and willingness of youth to join because all they see are old guys. It's a vicious cycle. It's kinda like how I am towards Religion. I love Masonry (the Faith) but not really into Lodge (the Church) because it can be a lot of unnecessary politics and the older members aren't willing to listen to any/all of the ideas coming from the younger Brethren. Lodge opened a door for me and gave me a good foundation of knowledge and understanding but almost all of my Masonic knowledge has come from countless hours of private study over the last 5 years.


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## Michael Hatley (Aug 14, 2013)

I was (mostly) kidding with the vampire/werewolf thing, of course :24:


My real take on the whole thing - well.  First of all, a small number of men get rode hard and put up wet.  Just is what it is.  Those fellas are the ones who are capable and willing to not just do work, but to take ownership of issues.  In my experience, just like everywhere else, those men get put into positions of responsibility, a lot - because they are doers.  If they join an appendant body or two, they get put to work there too.  If they join a masonic discussion group or some kind of masonic thing, they get looked to for answers.  

Its just gravity at work and has a lot less to do with being smart, or a "natural leader" or any of that kind of stuff.  Its just that this is a very large volunteer organization with many branches and arms, and doers are in high demand in every part of it.  And since it takes one to know one, when you are yourself looking to staff a project, you spot other doers and put them to work the same way.  So it is a cycle - and those doers get burned out.  Masonry becomes like a second job.  

And for fellas who understand what I'm saying, thats not so much a Masonry thing - its a life thing.  You get that no matter what you turn your hand to until you learn to say no to things and to let some stuff be ran slipshod so you can focus your time, you just can't do it all.

Personally, the education bit - sure, I think that minutes spent not wrangling over what brand of stapler to buy or what kind of seasoning to put on the fish for the fundraiser is good stuff.  But the truth is that I've seen men who clamored over having education nod off within five minutes of a good program.  So I think it is in theory good, but it isn't a panacea, not really.  Its just a necessary component.

And back to my original tongue in cheek bit, I do think that a lot of younger folks are coming in and looking for - if not the Illuminati, magic, and so forth - then at least a certain level of mystery and adventure.  What they find is work, and work that seems a lot more like maintenance than shared self improvement if you catch my drift.

Thats a lot to do with the fact that what they envision, in my opinion, is European style Masonry, and what they get is American style Masonry.  The sort of Masonry that exploded in popularity after WWII, and has since lost so many members over the last several decades that it is rare to find a truly healthy lodge anymore.  So what you have, instead of one healthy lodge with 40 men at a stated meeting, you have four little lodges each with 10 men at their stated meetings - all within a short drive from one another.  Because we _*had*_ lots of men, practicing a far more informal Freemasonry than in the past, with full lodge buildings on every other street corner.

What we as men in our 20s, 30s, and 40s have is a few men, practicing far more informal Freemasonry than in centuries past, with mostly empty lodge buildings on every other street corner - each struggling to hold on to said lodge building.

In my opinion 3 out of 4 lodges could combine with other lodges, harken back to the formal days of centuries past, and retention rates would improve in a big way.  Why?  Because you wouldn't have to feel as if you had to spend your Masonic time pulling your hair out to fill the chairs in a degree, or to pay the bills so that you weren't the SOB that lost your lodge's building.


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## jwhoff (Aug 14, 2013)

Agreed Brother Mike.  Another thing I'm beginning to notice is that the "bang for your buck" is not being rewarded for the "working class" of masonry.  One busts one's butt to get a man through and the man disappears into that unknown oblivion.  All the hopes of coming back and teaching a little masonry collapses.  Year after year and experience after experience of the same tends to dull one's enthusiasm.  Everyone has a responsibility.  Too few are fulfilling those responsibilities.  Again, oft-times I consider the West Gate ajar.


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## Mac (Aug 15, 2013)

Is it that the west gate is open?  Or is the bigger issue the fact that sometimes the gate keeper doesn't know what he's guarding?


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## JJones (Aug 15, 2013)

Mac said:


> Is it that the west gate is open?  Or is the bigger issue the fact that sometimes the gate keeper doesn't know what he's guarding?
> 
> 
> Sent via mobile app (Freemason Connect HD)



I'd put forth that both are culprits but if we, as the gate keepers of our lodges, took more pride in what we're guarding then I don't think the west gate would be open quite so wide.


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## jwhoff (Aug 15, 2013)

That is a big double "So Mote it Be" brethren.


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## dfreybur (Aug 15, 2013)

bjdeverell said:


> I'm with most of you in my belief that it's the lack of education. The catechism is nice but let's face it; you aren't learning Masonry, you're learning the Degrees. My downfall is that my Lodge is in a town of about 500, so most of our Brothers are old and don't see any need in teaching beyond the catechism.



I suggest this is a generational difference on what masonry is to most. Very many of the previous generation joined for the fellowship and social activities and that really is what Masonry is to them.  I've heard former military describe the camaraderie we experience as parallel to what they experienced in the military and it's something they wanted.  Very many men of the WWII and Korea era see masonry this way and for them that's what Masonry is.  Asking them for education is a question that doesn't make sense to them because of that.  They never studied that because they were never interested.

Now a young generation is at our door and many or most are interested in something else.  Either we deliver what they expect or our lodge is in trouble.



> Lodge opened a door for me and gave me a good foundation of knowledge and understanding but almost all of my Masonic knowledge has come from countless hours of private study over the last 5 years.



To a great extent that's deliberate.  It's one of the meanings of "You get out of Masonry what you put into Masonry".  Some men put social events into Masonry and for them that's what we are.  Some men put mystical studies into Masonry and for them that's what we are.


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## bjdeverell (Aug 15, 2013)

very true.


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## TDJ One (Dec 29, 2013)

I'm struggling to stay myself, and I was raised a little over a year ago. For me, I see a combination of things. The combination of burnout, lack of Masonic education, and older Brothers setting a poor example. Granted no one is perfect. Some internal conflicts inside of me I don't agree with that I see going on. I do agree with the comment everyone become a Mason for their own reason.


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## RedTemplar (Dec 29, 2013)

Many are called but few are chosen. There is a saying currently popping up on masonic facebook sites that proclaims, "Any man can be a Mason. But not every man can be a Mason". There is a lot of truth to this.


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## TDJ One (Dec 29, 2013)

I've heard that one before...


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## Mac (Dec 30, 2013)

I've been a member of several campus and professional organizations, and I've just never felt the same level of preparation with Masonic lodges. Oftentimes, the lodge is run by a new leader each year, with a salty secretary backing him up. 

The identity of the lodge (and the focus of the same) can change annually, and there isn't always a consistency there. 


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## dfreybur (Dec 30, 2013)

TDJ One said:


> I'm struggling to stay myself, and I was raised a little over a year ago. For me, I see a combination of things. The combination of burnout, lack of Masonic education, and older Brothers setting a poor example. Granted no one is perfect. Some internal conflicts inside of me I don't agree with that I see going on. I do agree with the comment everyone become a Mason for their own reason.



Lack of Masonic education - When is the last time you prepared a talk for Stated meeting?  We all get out of Masonry what we put into Masonry.  The last time I presented a talk at Stated was December.  Just sayin ...


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## Browncoat (Dec 30, 2013)

I think most who expect the Lodge to provide their entire Masonic experience are going to end up disappointed. 

Sent From My Freemasonry Pro App


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## JJones (Dec 30, 2013)

Browncoat said:


> I think most who expect the Lodge to provide their entire Masonic experience are going to end up disappointed.
> 
> Sent From My Freemasonry Pro App



This is very true.  Until a certain point in our masonic careers we have our experience provided to us but afterwards we are usually left to our own devices.  At that point we have to provide our own experiences through study and reflection.  At least that's my opinion.


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## BroBook (Dec 30, 2013)

Just remember masons are not made by the initiation process it only allows them to prove they have been initiationed.


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## Mac (Dec 30, 2013)

JJones said:


> This is very true.  Until a certain point in our masonic careers we have our experience provided to us but afterwards we are usually left to our own devices.  At that point we have to provide our own experiences through study and reflection.  At least that's my opinion.



We should have these meetings to discuss those reflections, or share them with our brothers, though. 


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## JohnnyFlotsam (Dec 30, 2013)

dfreybur said:


> Lack of Masonic education - When is the last time you prepared a talk for Stated meeting?  We all get out of Masonry what we put into Masonry.  The last time I presented a talk at Stated was December.  Just sayin ...



That's more true than not, but you and I both know that there are Lodges that "...don't have time for that stuff." I'll spare us the rant on what they _do _have time for, because we all know that refrain.

It is not reasonable to expect our newest members (the one's we're worried about attracting and retaining) to provide the "Masonic education". They joined to _get_ that. Unless and until they have achieved a certain level of proficiency, and I mean far more than memorized catechism, most will not be able to contribute meaningfully in that area. 

I have seen remarkable young men work hard to put together something interesting for the benefit of the assembled members. The back-row kibitzing never ceased, and at the end the WM barely offered a thank you before moving on to the more important business of dealing with the building's infrastructure. Most of those members don't show up anymore. 

The sad fact is that (with some rare exceptions) we don't deliver anything close to what the ad copy promises.


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## TDJ One (Dec 30, 2013)

Mac said:


> We should have these meetings to discuss those reflections, or share them with our brothers, though.
> 
> 
> Sent via mobile app (Freemason Connect HD)




In my experience most of these discussions happens in private with a select few Brothers, not in open lodge. This should be the platform for Study Hall meetings.


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## TDJ One (Dec 30, 2013)

JohnnyFlotsam said:


> That's more true than not, but you and I both know that there are Lodges that "...don't have time for that stuff." I'll spare us the rant on what they _do _have time for, because we all know that refrain.
> 
> It is not reasonable to expect our newest members (the one's we're worried about attracting and retaining) to provide the "Masonic education". They joined to _get_ that. Unless and until they have achieved a certain level of proficiency, and I mean far more than memorized catechism, most will not be able to contribute meaningfully in that area.
> 
> ...



This is my point.


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## crono782 (Dec 30, 2013)

TDJ One said:


> In my experience most of these discussions happens in private with a select few Brothers, not in open lodge. This should be the platform for Study Hall meetings.



Yes, I contend that an open lodge is the utmost perfect time and place for that rather than in private.
To make a few quotations from MacBride:

"In the lodge there are two significant terms in common use. Money matters, election of officer-bearers, laws and bye-laws and such like, are called _Business_. The ceremonies of the degrees, etc., are named _Work_. The Work or *main function* of the lodge, consists of certain ceremonies symbolical in character and mainly, but not exclusively, based on the work of operative masonry."
"The true mason lodge provides an environment for the development of the nobler nature of man, for the formation or building up of high character... To provide a suitable environment wherein this work may be carried on, the Lodge is isolated from all the ordinary conditions of life... This is the *Chief End--the Alpha and the Omega*--of a lodge. This, and not the petty prosperity of a Pounds-shillings-and-pence-balance, the tinsel Ã©clat of a crowd of intrants, or the beggarly boast of a rank-and-title membership... We can scarcely desire a more exalted ideal: we should *never* be content with a lesser one." (bold mine)


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## JJones (Dec 30, 2013)

Mac said:


> We should have these meetings to discuss those reflections, or share them with our brothers, though.
> 
> 
> Sent via mobile app (Freemason Connect HD)





> In my experience most of these discussions happens in private with a select few Brothers, not in open lodge. This should be the platform for Study Hall meetings.



I agree with you both.  Ideally I think we should be working to improve ourselves and sharing what we've learned with one another.  I think one-on-one is a a great way to share, especially if one of the brothers is a mentor.  I also think presentations given during lodge meetings that cover and share what a brother has learned would really help to make the meetings more...well, masonic.



> Yes, I contend that an open lodge is the utmost perfect time and place for that rather than in private.
> To make a few quotations from MacBride:
> 
> "In the lodge there are two significant terms in common use. Money matters, election of officer-bearers, laws and bye-laws and such like, are called _Business. The ceremonies of the degrees, etc., are named Work. The Work or *main function of the lodge, consists of certain ceremonies symbolical in character and mainly, but not exclusively, based on the work of operative masonry."
> "The true mason lodge provides an environment for the development of the nobler nature of man, for the formation or building up of high character... To provide a suitable environment wherein this work may be carried on, the Lodge is isolated from all the ordinary conditions of life... This is the Chief End--the Alpha and the Omega--of a lodge. This, and not the petty prosperity of a Pounds-shillings-and-pence-balance, the tinsel Ã©clat of a crowd of intrants, or the beggarly boast of a rank-and-title membership... We can scarcely desire a more exalted ideal: we should never be content with a lesser one." (bold mine)*_



That's a great quote! Thank you for sharing that brother.


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## dfreybur (Dec 30, 2013)

JohnnyFlotsam said:


> It is not reasonable to expect our newest members (the one's we're worried about attracting and retaining) to provide the "Masonic education". They joined to _get_ that. Unless and until they have achieved a certain level of proficiency, and I mean far more than memorized catechism, most will not be able to contribute meaningfully in that area.



Unfortunately it's also not reasonable to expect a member who joined for social reasons to make presentations that aren't about social events of the past.  So how to get past the chicken-and-egg issue here?  Some group has to boot strap past it.  That group includes us on my Freemasonry even the brand new brothers.  You're pioneers my new brothers!  Go for it!



> I have seen remarkable young men work hard to put together something interesting for the benefit of the assembled members. The back-row kibitzing never ceased, and at the end the WM barely offered a thank you before moving on to the more important business of dealing with the building's infrastructure. Most of those members don't show up anymore.



My challenge - Glare down the kibitzers and congratulate the presenter.  I've always thought that any brother other than myself presenting is better than my presenting and I always thank brothers for doing so and ask questions after the meeting.  They delivered value so we need to let them know that.  Because boot strapping the chicken and egg takes doing that.


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## crono782 (Dec 30, 2013)

dfreybur said:


> My challenge - Glare down the kibitzers and congratulate the presenter.  I've always thought that any brother other than myself presenting is better than my presenting and I always thank brothers for doing so and ask questions after the meeting.  They delivered value so we need to let them know that.  Because boot strapping the chicken and egg takes doing that.



Yup, show those nay sayers what for! Seriously though, it seems to me as well that propping up the do-doers is the best method for putting down the poo-pooers. lol


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## Brother_Steve (Dec 31, 2013)

I asked to be on the ritual and advisory board for this year.

We discuss more on the porch of the lodge after a meeting than we do during a meeting.

The more I speak about masonry outside of lodge the more I discover that it is not about putting on an apron and sitting in a room.

It is about the interactions with your Brethren outside of a stated meeting that makes masonry work for the individual. You have to find those who love talking about the Craft. Grab on and get as much as you can out of them. Everything you need to start out as a MM is in your rituals. Learn them for your foundation and go from there.

Yes, it is nice to meet everyone and socialize before and after a meeting but it should not stop there. Those interactions should happen more than once or twice a month.

I'm not saying you should dump your life long non mason friends but you should make it a point to have a beer with those you fit in with the best to keep those ties tight.

That is the issue today though. Our lives are so hectic and fast that I have to put my masonic schedules on my Google calendar and sync it to my wife's account so she knows the five W's for the month. Getting out for socialization outside of stated meetings is tough.

Look at us here and now. We use a forum to communicate and seek out each other. Some of us post on multiple masonic forums for that connection because we do not have what our fathers and grandfathers had...Time...

How many Masons here find that they use this and other forums to try to fill the gaps that you seem to be left with from your own lodge?

I'm not embarrassed to say I'm one of those Masons.


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## cemab4y (Dec 31, 2013)

Thumbs up! This is why I have always been so supportive of "Square and Compasses" clubs, and informal Saturday morning breakfast meetings. You can learn so much more about the Craft, when you are out of the formal meetings.


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## Rob427W (Dec 31, 2013)

Brother_Steve said:


> I asked to be on the ritual and advisory board for this year.
> 
> We discuss more on the porch of the lodge after a meeting than we do during a meeting.
> 
> ...





I am certainly one of them.  The lodge where I am a FC at is rather social in nature, and likely not willing to hear about the educational, let alone the esoteric, aspects of Masonry.  I don't think it will be that way for a very long time, if ever.

It is high on ladder of possibilities that my wife and I will move back to Central PA within the next year or two.  When we move, I'd like to find a lodge that is very interested in Masonic Education.


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## Browncoat (Dec 31, 2013)

As the newest member of my Lodge (currently FC), it's very easy to tell already who the doers are. The ones who serve in chairs year after year...the ones who help organize the pancake breakfasts...the few who seem eager and willing to help me advance. We have around 200 members because we absorbed another Lodge last year. Those men are from my hometown, but I have only ever seen two of them in a meeting. At best, we have 20 show up for meetings, and its rare to see a new face.

It's all a bit discouraging for a newbie. It's the doers who keep me coming back and interested. There's only a handful of them, but that's all it takes. A couple of them have served at the district and state level, so I feel like I'm in good hands.

Sent From My Freemasonry Pro App


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## dfreybur (Dec 31, 2013)

Rob427W said:


> The lodge where I am a FC at is rather social in nature, and likely not willing to hear about the educational, let alone the esoteric, aspects of Masonry.  I don't think it will be that way for a very long time, if ever.



Nothing succeeds like success.  A lodge with an active social calendar will also have an active degree calendar.  If Stated meetings run long because of discussion of activities and events to the point there is no time for educational presentations, then that lodge is successful enough to be used as an example.  Social activities are Masonry in action.  They just happen to be a part of Masonry that isn't what you are looking for.



> It is high on ladder of possibilities that my wife and I will move back to Central PA within the next year or two.  When we move, I'd like to find a lodge that is very interested in Masonic Education.



There is occasional discussion of preferring a large lodge versus preferring a small lodge.  If you want a lodge that is a thought leader you may want to affiliate with a small lodge that is struggling.  Start doing presentations at Stated meetings where nothing else is being discussed anyways.  Start drawing other men interested in doing that.  In a small lodge one brother makes a bigger difference.  Of course if you do this you will necessarily become one of the doers and shakers so plan for that.

Importantly have a long term plan for not getting burned out.  One pattern you'll notice is after a merger the brothers of one lodge who were holding it up by their doing and shaking tend to relax and drop in activity.  Brothers love their lodges enough that almost every time there is a consolidation it happened too late and it happened because the doers and shakers holding it up started to burn out.


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## Rob427W (Dec 31, 2013)

Bro. dfrey,

Thank you for pointing out an underlying arrogance in my thought process, that I unfortunately wasn't noticing.

And thanks for the advice!


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## cemab4y (Jan 1, 2014)

Many excellent points raised here. I have often discussed, that Masonry needs to take a "holistic" approach, about how to move Masonry (and Masons) into the 21st century. We need to find out what causes men to become inactive and drop out, and also what makes them keep coming back, and contributing. 

Then we can work to eliminate the negatives, and push up the positives. Grand Lodges and Lodges can learn from each other.

I have often pushed the concept of giving each Mason a "calling". That is, to stress that a man's obligations to the Craft do not end with the paying of a dues check once per year.

Each Mason, should also contribute some "sweat equity", to the Craft, when possible. Each Mason should be assigned to a "calling" that can utilize his talents and skills. IT geeks can be assigned to the IT committee. Men who are skilled in the carpentry and building trades can be assigned to the building upkeep committee. Men with cooking skills to the kitchen-krew. And there is always the cleanup and yard-mowing division. If there is no easy match, then have each man come up with his own calling, example: visiting Masonic widows,etc.

I believe sincerely, that each man needs to feel that he is important to Masonry. In this way, Masonry will become important to _him_. I believe that there are men who could contribute to the Craft, and to their individual lodges, if they only are provided with the proper 'avenue of support'.


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## cemab4y (Jan 1, 2014)

Rob427W said:


> I am certainly one of them. The lodge where I am a FC at is rather social in nature, and likely not willing to hear about the educational, let alone the esoteric, aspects of Masonry. I don't think it will be that way for a very long time, if ever.
> 
> It is high on ladder of possibilities that my wife and I will move back to Central PA within the next year or two. When we move, I'd like to find a lodge that is very interested in Masonic Education.




This is an interesting comment, that I hear often. "My lodge is not interested in X" or "My lodge has never done Y". 

If there is some activity that will benefit your lodge, and the members, then propose it. You may find that there are members in your lodge, who are also interested in the educational aspects of Masonry, but have never spoken up. 

You should contact a "lodge of research", and get some advice. You can also contact nearby lodges, and invite speakers to give a program about some aspect of Masonry (or the appendant/concordant bodies), that would prove interesting to the membership. 

Masonry is a "work in progress", and you may just find that there are more men in your lodge who are interested in the same aspects of Masonry as you are.

If you are unable to find a lodge in your current area (or in your new area), which is interested in Masonic education, then introduce the topic at your lodge meeting. You might even consider starting your own "lodge of research", with other Masons in your area.

Good luck!!


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## Rob427W (Jan 1, 2014)

Bro. cemab4y,

Thanks you for the great advice.  When the time comes I'll certainly look into it.  I am not to be Raised until February 18th.


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## cemab4y (Jan 2, 2014)

I am delighted to have been of help. The enthusiasm of most Masons, to accept or even consider my "advice", has been somewhat "uneven". 

Your posting "made my day"


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## dfreybur (Jan 2, 2014)

crono782 said:


> "In the lodge there are two significant terms in common use. Money matters, election of officer-bearers, laws and bye-laws and such like, are called _Business_. The ceremonies of the degrees, etc., are named _Work_.



The terminology varies by jurisdiction -

Stated meetings are called that because it is "stated" in the by-laws.  Since every brother raised or affiliated has signed the by-law book he at least in theory knows the time and location of all Stated meetings.  Because of that all matters of money that require a vote and all matters of candidates that require a ballot may only happen at a Stated meeting.  These meetings are opened for business and no other type of meeting is opened for that reason - This distinction is lost in Texas.

Special meetings are called that because they are not stated in the by-laws.  They are also named called meetings in some jurisdiction.  They are named this because these emergent meetings are called out on the events calendar and/or the members involved are called by summons or other means to come to the meeting.  These meetings except in Texas are opened for work, though I have seen some opened explicitly for proficiency as a more specific term at the moment.

Lodges of instruction tend to be opened at district or other meetings with brothers of several lodges.  These meetings should be opened for instruction but it is common for the brother in the east to use the wording of the meeting type that is being practiced instead.

Brothers interested in Masonic education need to learn that ritual is taught by "instruction" so anything referred to by "education" automatically excludes ritual recitation and vice versa.


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## crono782 (Jan 2, 2014)

Yeah, I noticed the incongruence in the phrasing too, but is a tad forgivable given that the author wrote those words oh about 90+ years ago or so. But the gist is still there... Business is necessary, but the true purpose is the Work.


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