# Can anyone enlighten me on THE AMERICAN NATIONAL SUPREME COUNCIL



## mm357 (Jul 18, 2016)

The way they are operating throes out suspicion they are not giving out dispensation but warrants to operate and a couple months you get a red and white charter it doesn't add up to me


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## Glen Cook (Jul 19, 2016)

As to the first issue, a dispensation rather than directly to a warrant is not an element of regularity.


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## mm357 (Jul 19, 2016)

Glen Cook said:


> As to the first issue, a dispensation rather than directly to a warrant is not an element of regularity.


So they are irregular


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## Glen Cook (Jul 19, 2016)

Hmm. Let me try that again. Receiving a warrant rather than a dispensation at first has nothing to do with regularity; it is irrelevant to the issue


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## mm357 (Jul 19, 2016)

Glen Cook said:


> Hmm. Let me try that again. Receiving a warrant rather than a dispensation at first has nothing to do with regularity; it is irrelevant to the issue


Are they a legit body that's what I am asking


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## chrmc (Jul 19, 2016)

With out digging very much into it, I'll say with 98% certainty that no they are not a legitimate body.


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## Ripcord22A (Jul 19, 2016)

something ive noticed as ive looked through these various bogus "supreme" councils is that they also include the OES under their jurisdiction.  as in their SGCs have power over the OES, they hold joint meetings and the like.  its so sad that these people continue to deceive.


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## Warrior1256 (Jul 19, 2016)

chrmc said:


> With out digging very much into it, I'll say with 98% certainty that no they are not a legitimate body.


I've only been in the AASR for 8 months but I've never heard of The American National Supreme Council.


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## mm357 (Jul 19, 2016)

Warrior1256 said:


> I've only been in the AASR for 8 months but I've never heard of The American National Supreme Council.


They say they are building they're operating under a guy name ILL.BROWN and Ray McLean they say their grand lodge is in Georgia but check this their grand lodge is MW MOUNT SINAI GRAND LODGE #1 AF&AM hmm throws suspicion


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## Ripcord22A (Jul 19, 2016)

mm357 said:


> They say they are building they're operating under a guy name ILL.BROWN and Ray McLean they say their grand lodge is in Georgia but check this their grand lodge is MW MOUNT SINAI GRAND LODGE #1 AF&AM hmm throws suspicion


it doesn't throw suspicion, that right there tells you they are bogus.  1st off AASR doesn't have 1 GL there are many GLs whose membership are members of the AASR, 2 GLs arent numbered, 3 there are only two legit GLs per state...GLoXX and MWPHGLoXX.  That's it, plain and simple!


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## mm357 (Jul 19, 2016)

Nlah


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## Warrior1256 (Jul 19, 2016)

jdmadsenCraterlake211 said:


> it doesn't throw suspicion, that right there tells you they are bogus.  1st off AASR doesn't have 1 GL there are many GLs whose membership are members of the AASR, 2 GLs are numbered, 3 there are only two legit GLs per state...GLoXX and MWPHGLoXX.  That's it, plain and simple!


Yup.


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## Ripcord22A (Jul 20, 2016)

mm357 said:


> When u seen their paperwork I said they were bogus after an EA approached me I asked where was his WM and I met him after he showed me his paperwork I told him it wasn't legit he got angry but I asked the EA how much did he pay the answer was $150 + an additional $45 before they could be issues an certificate or membership card I told him that it was bogus as I was raised in an constituted masonic lodge


That is so hard to read bro.  Im not sure what ur saying here.

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## mm357 (Jul 20, 2016)

They are self proclaimed 33°


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## Ripcord22A (Jul 20, 2016)

not necessarily; some of them could very possibly be expelled masons who started the "GL"


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## mm357 (Jul 20, 2016)

Oh they say they are over north america


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## Glen Cook (Jul 21, 2016)

mm357 said:


> Oh they say they are over north america


Hmm. Finally someone I can complain to about North American Freemasonry.


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## Glen Cook (Jul 21, 2016)

Edited:





mm357 said:


> When u seen their paperwork.  I said they were bogus after an EA approached me.  I asked where was his WM.  I met him after he showed me his paperwork. I told him it wasn't legit.  He got angry, but I asked the EA how much did he pay?  The answer was $150 + an additional $45 before they could be issues an certificate or membership card. I told him that it was bogus, as I was raised in an constituted masonic lodge



What does the way he pays his degree fees have to do with being bogus?


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## Warrior1256 (Jul 22, 2016)

Glen Cook said:


> Hmm. Finally someone I can complain to about North American Freemasonry.


Lol!


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## mm357 (Jul 22, 2016)

Warrior1256 said:


> Lol!


Lol


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## mm357 (Jul 22, 2016)

Glen Cook said:


> Edited:
> 
> What does the way he pays his degree fees have to do with being bogus?


Anytime you pay for your first 3 degrees and then they tell you you have to pay extra money before you can receive anything is bogus


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## Ripcord22A (Jul 22, 2016)

no not necessarily.  It all depends on the lodges bylaws.  maybe it was 150 +45 for dues and GL per capita.  I mean in this case they are completely bogus but, you cant say with ANY amount of certainty that every lodge has just a flat rate for initiation.


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## Glen Cook (Jul 23, 2016)

mm357 said:


> Anytime you pay for your first 3 degrees and then they tell you you have to pay extra money before you can receive anything is bogus


Is it?  Citation?  
Note,my lodges require payment for each degree.


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## dfreybur (Jul 23, 2016)

mm357 said:


> Anytime you pay for your first 3 degrees and then they tell you you have to pay extra money before you can receive anything is bogus



Or maybe the Brother explaining it uses poor wording or has poor understanding.  In all of my jurisdictions there is an application fee just to make it to the ballot, plus a fee for each degree.  None are large amounts compared to the typical wage but if you work at minimum wage you'd need to scrape to come up with them.

What varies widely among lodges I've seen and among candidates I've met is how many of those fees are paid together.  Some want to pay the fees as they go.  Others ask what the total is and enclose a check for the grand total with the petition.


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## BullDozer Harrell (Jul 25, 2016)

mm357 said:


> So they are irregular


Actually they're clandestine. 

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## BullDozer Harrell (Jul 26, 2016)

This is how it works pretty much...

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## mrpierce17 (Jul 27, 2016)




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## Ripcord22A (Jul 27, 2016)

lol...both those r great


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## Warrior1256 (Jul 27, 2016)

Lol....Funny!


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## Ill357 (Aug 14, 2016)

Greetings Brothers,

I can enlighten you on this jurisdiction.  Yes it is operating clandestine.  They are using Freemasonry for financial gain.


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## mm357 (Aug 16, 2016)

BullDozer Harrell said:


> This is how it works pretty much...
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910P using My Freemasonry Pro mobile app


Exactly what I'm saying brother


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## mm357 (Aug 16, 2016)

Ill357 said:


> Greetings Brothers,
> 
> I can enlighten you on this jurisdiction.  Yes it is operating clandestine.  They are using Freemasonry for financial gain.


That's exactly what I'm saying brother they're operating to accumulate money for personal uses they're hoodwinking and bamboozling a lot of people


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## Ill357 (Aug 16, 2016)

I've meet a few brothers who are with them that are brainwashed


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## mm357 (Aug 16, 2016)

Ill357 said:


> I've meet a few brothers who are with them that are brainwashed


Tell Them brothers to get away from them immediately


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## Ill357 (Aug 17, 2016)

How do we stop clandestine jurisdiction from using Freemasonry as a front for financial gain


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## Ripcord22A (Aug 17, 2016)

Lengthly amd costly law suites

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## mrpierce17 (Aug 17, 2016)

Ill357 said:


> How do we stop clandestine jurisdiction from using Freemasonry as a front for financial gain


I have heard at one time it was illegal for someone to impersonate being a Freemason maybe this needs to be put back in effect


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## Winter (Aug 17, 2016)

A lot of states still have laws on the books. For instance, Wisconsin State Statute 132.16 &17 makes it a misdemeanor for anyone to make or wear anything Masonic who is not entitled to do so. But I serious doubt one of these obscure statutes has been prosecuted in a very long time.  I'm not even sure if we could apply them to clandestine organizations. Do we really want the courts determining which group is legitimate? 

Transmitted via my R5 astromech.


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## mrpierce17 (Aug 17, 2016)

Winter said:


> A lot of states still have laws on the books. Do we really want the courts determining which group is legitimate?
> 
> Transmitted via my R5 astromech.


Agreed that would open up a whole new can of worms


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## Ripcord22A (Aug 17, 2016)

Winter said:


> A lot of states still have laws on the books. For instance, Wisconsin State Statute 132.16 &17 makes it a misdemeanor for anyone to make or wear anything Masonic who is not entitled to do so. But I serious doubt one of these obscure statutes has been prosecuted in a very long time.


This would get shredded if it ever went to court.  the GOVT cant tell someone what they can and cannot wear. 
as long as they are not presenting themselves as something they are not with the intent to defraud someone.<-------This is where the law suit against these groups that are for financial gains would have to focus.  as for the groups that "are forces of good" in their communities they are Freemasons, just not ones that are recognized as such by us.  The conference of GMs and the PHA conference of GMs and the UGLE need to get together and file trademark and copy right on the name FREEMASON, the S&C with and with out the G and our designations of AF&AM, F&AM, FAAM and the couple other varients out there


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## Winter (Aug 17, 2016)

The Square & Compass is a registered trademark in some jurisdictions. 

http://freemasonry.bcy.ca/grandlodge/trademark.html

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## Ripcord22A (Aug 17, 2016)

Winter said:


> The Square & Compass is a registered trademark in some jurisdictions.
> 
> http://freemasonry.bcy.ca/grandlodge/trademark.html
> 
> Transmitted via my R5 astromech.


I didn't know that.  Like I said both GM conferences and the UGLE need to get together and file on behalf of all GLs that those three bodies recognize


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## Winter (Aug 17, 2016)

jdmadsenCraterlake211 said:


> I didn't know that.  Like I said both GM conferences and the UGLE need to get together and file on behalf of all GLs that those three bodies recognize


That assumes the UGLE speaks for other jurisdictions as well as that the Council of Grand Masters can agree on something!  

Transmitted via my R5 astromech.


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## Ripcord22A (Aug 17, 2016)

Winter said:


> That assumes the UGLE speaks for other jurisdictions as well as that the Council of Grand Masters can agree on something!
> 
> Transmitted via my R5 astromech.


well they don't speak for other jurisdictions but if the list all the GLs that they recognize as being authorized to use the S&C and the af&am, f&am ect ect in their regions, as the link you provided said the GL of Idaho did with the PHA counterpart, that would cover all recognized jurisdictions and allow those named jurisdictions a source for law suit if a spurious jurisdictions appeard within its borders


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## Scoops (Aug 18, 2016)

jdmadsenCraterlake211 said:


> well they don't speak for other jurisdictions but if the list all the GLs that they recognize as being authorized to use the S&C and the af&am, f&am ect ect in their regions, as the link you provided said the GL of Idaho did with the PHA counterpart, that would cover all recognized jurisdictions and allow those named jurisdictions a source for law suit if a spurious jurisdictions appeard within its borders


But where would that leave a body like the Grand Orient of France? Yes, we consider them irregular and haven't recognised them since they started to admit atheists but they are almost as old as UGLE and it's forerunners and are the largest masonic body in France.

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## Winter (Aug 18, 2016)

Scoops said:


> But where would that leave a body like the Grand Orient of France? Yes, we consider them irregular and haven't recognised them since they started to admit atheists but they are almost as old as UGLE and it's forerunners and are the largest masonic body in France.
> 
> Sent from my D5803 using Tapatalk


They admit atheist. So they are not a Masonic organization. I hate to be blunt about it, but facts are facts. 

Transmitted via my R5 astromech.


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## dfreybur (Aug 18, 2016)

Scoops said:


> But where would that leave a body like the Grand Orient of France? Yes, we consider them irregular and haven't recognised them since they started to admit atheists but they are almost as old as UGLE and it's forerunners and are the largest masonic body in France.



If you want you can think of the branches like Pepsi and Coke.  The situation does rather parallel how the Girl Scouts and Boy Scouts diverged in the US.

I figure they are great guys but not us.  They had a revolution that took over and now they aren't the same.  I like the term step-brothers for the situation.


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## Glen Cook (Aug 18, 2016)

Winter said:


> That assumes the UGLE speaks for other jurisdictions as well as that the Council of Grand Masters can agree on something!
> 
> Transmitted via my R5 astromech.


If you are referring to the Conference of Grand Masters of North America, what disagreement are you referring to?  I do not recollect any in some years.


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## Glen Cook (Aug 18, 2016)

jdmadsenCraterlake211 said:


> I didn't know that.  Like I said both GM conferences and the UGLE need to get together and file on behalf of all GLs that those three bodies recognize


Umm, that would likely be difficult to do given the use for centuries by others.  

Just a clarification:  CGMNA does not recognize GLs. The Commission makes recommendations to the member GLs.


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## Ripcord22A (Aug 18, 2016)

Glen Cook said:


> .
> 
> Just a clarification:  CGMNA does not recognize GLs. The Commission makes recommendations to the member GLs.


Right i get that..mshoukd have beem clearer...i.meant all the GLs that the member GLs recognize


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## Glen Cook (Aug 18, 2016)

jdmadsenCraterlake211 said:


> Right i get that..mshoukd have beem clearer...i.meant all the GLs that the member GLs recognize
> 
> 
> Sent from my LG-H811 using My Freemasonry Pro mobile app


Well, I'm pedantic on the issue.

However, not all the member GLs recognize the same ones. NA GLs are a mess over Paraguay (two GLs of the same name at the same address).  US and UGLE recognize different ones in Italy...


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## Ripcord22A (Aug 18, 2016)

I had to look pedantic up....thays a 50 dollar word right there

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## Winter (Aug 19, 2016)

Glen Cook said:


> If you are referring to the Conference of Grand Masters of North America, what disagreement are you referring to?  I do not recollect any in some years.


I was merely being tongue in cheek over different grand jurisdictions here recognizing different bodies in other jurisdictions. I actually think the CGNMA is a good thing.  

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## Bloke (Aug 19, 2016)

Scoops said:


> But where would that leave a body like the Grand Orient of France? Yes, we consider them irregular and haven't recognised them since they started to admit atheists but they are almost as old as UGLE and it's forerunners and are the largest masonic body in France.
> 
> Sent from my D5803 using Tapatalk



In our  (UGLV) view, it's an irregular masonic body.


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