# "White Lodge" vs. Prince Hall



## DPK42 (Oct 29, 2014)

Hello my future brothers. I have been debating in my head for a long time about which way I want to go. I am classified as Caucasian and the man that I originally asked about Freemasonry is a super cool African American guy and has always been extremely helpful, and is excited for me to join. Now, with political correctness out of the way, I will say that I get along better with black people than I do with white people, probably because I was black in my past life, but I can fit in almost seamlessly anywhere because I get along well with all people in general. Here is my dilemma...I really want to join Washington Lodge 22 because I love history and want to be a member of the same lodge that George Washington and other greats belonged to. It's like I can feel a connection to history itself when I walk in there! On the other hand, and I'm not saying anyone is better than anyone else by any means (we are all equal), since I naturally get along with black people, why would I not want to surround myself with Prince Hall Masons? This debate with myself is almost painful because it's literally holding me back. I realize that nobody is supposed to steer me in any particular direction because it is up to me, but if anyone has any advice on how to end this debate, it would be greatly appreciated! Thanks in advance!!


----------



## Zack (Oct 29, 2014)

Since you asked......I would go where the tangible connections make me the most comfortable rather than the intangible connections with the past.

Whatever you decide, I wish you the best experience possible.


----------



## Warrior1256 (Oct 29, 2014)

I don't see this as a black or white issue, we are all the same and obviously you feel the same way. Simply visit the lodges in question and go with the one that you are most comfortable in.


----------



## dfreybur (Oct 29, 2014)

Ask the local lodges if they allow multiple affiliation and if they have exchanged recognition with the jurisdiction that has Washington 22.  If either answer yes to either question you have your answer.  If both answer yes to both questions go with your heart because there will be no hurdle to affiliating later.


----------



## crono782 (Oct 29, 2014)

I assume by your avatar that you're in Texas?


----------



## Brother JC (Oct 29, 2014)

Unless you live in NoVa or the DC metro area, joining A-W 22 will be difficult. I would advise introducing yourself to local lodges (state or PH), getting to know the Brethren, and making an informed decision.
When a man shows interest in our lodge, the WM will take him to dinner at the other lodges, as well, to see who really "clicks" with him. Sometimes they end up petitioning our lodge, sometimes they petition another.


----------



## MBC (Oct 29, 2014)

I have a weird thought brethren.
Why not suggest him to initiate in the Washington 22 and join the Prince Hall Lodge that he has friends on?
Just similar to Bro dfreybur's suggestion.
Sorry that I'm not familiar with American jurisdiction.


----------



## Brother JC (Oct 29, 2014)

MBC; There are a hundred jurisdictions in the US. Generally, you need to live within a specific geographic range of the lodge you wish to receive your Degrees in. If a man lives in Dallas, TX (for example) it would be difficult, if not impossible, to receive the Three Degrees in Washington, DC.


----------



## MBC (Oct 29, 2014)

trysquare said:


> MBC; There are a hundred jurisdictions in the US. Generally, you need to live within a specific geographic range of the lodge you wish to receive your Degrees in. If a man lives in Dallas, TX (for example) it would be difficult, if not impossible, to receive the Three Degrees in Washington, DC.


Right bro. trysquare.
I think whole world's jurisdiction restrict this.
In England jurisdiction, you need to live in the jurisdiction for a year before you initiate.


----------



## DPK42 (Oct 30, 2014)

crono782 said:


> I assume by your avatar that you're in Texas?


No, I'm actually in Virginia, about 4 miles from Washington Lodge 22. I have been a Dallas Cowboys fan since birth...


----------



## DPK42 (Oct 30, 2014)

trysquare said:


> Unless you live in NoVa or the DC metro area, joining A-W 22 will be difficult. I would advise introducing yourself to local lodges (state or PH), getting to know the Brethren, and making an informed decision.
> When a man shows interest in our lodge, the WM will take him to dinner at the other lodges, as well, to see who really "clicks" with him. Sometimes they end up petitioning our lodge, sometimes they petition another.


Yes I live very close to Washington Lodge 22. That's great advice! Thank you.


----------



## DPK42 (Oct 30, 2014)

MBC said:


> I have a weird thought brethren.
> Why not suggest him to initiate in the Washington 22 and join the Prince Hall Lodge that he has friends on?
> Just similar to Bro dfreybur's suggestion.
> Sorry that I'm not familiar with American jurisdiction.


Interesting thought, but I'm not sure how that works...


----------



## crono782 (Oct 30, 2014)

DPK42 said:


> No, I'm actually in Virginia, about 4 miles from Washington Lodge 22. I have been a Dallas Cowboys fan since birth...


Nothing wrong with that!


----------



## dfreybur (Oct 30, 2014)

DPK42 said:


> Yes I live very close to Washington Lodge 22.



In my previous post I asked about recognition and multiple affiliation policies.  You'll have to approach both jurisdictions and ask them about their multiple affiliation policies.  I can answer the recognition question now that I know your geography.  You are good to go for recognition -

http://bessel.org/masrec/phachart.htm

"Nov. 10, 2001 & Nov. 2003  Limited recognition (without visitation) was adopted in 2001. Full recognition, including visitation, was adopted in November 2003."

Since you live close you won't have a problem.  You can attend both the local PHA lodge and Washington #22 * .  The questions are which you want to take your degrees in and whether you can be a member of both lodges or just remain a regular visitor at one.

Because there are two questions to be answered there are 4 variations on your options.

1a) Take your degrees in the local PHA lodge.  Once you have completed your proficiencies start visiting #22.  Apply there for "multiple affiliation".  They might use the words "dual" or "plural" instead of "multiple.

1b) Take your degrees in the local PHA lodge.  Once you have completed your proficiencies start visiting #22.  Since one of the two jurisdictions only allows you to be a member of exactly one lodge keep your membership and visit forever.

2a) Take your degrees in Washington #22.  Once you have completed your proficiencies start visiting the local PHA lodge.  Apply there for "multiple affiliation".  They might call it "associate membership".

2b) Take your degrees in Washington #22.  Once you have completed your proficiencies start visiting the local PHA lodge.  Since one of the two jurisdictions only allows you to be a member of exactly one lodge keep your membership and visit forever.


----------



## Brother JC (Oct 31, 2014)

You will have to verify this in Virginia, but it is my understanding that no PHA GLs allow multiple membership.


----------



## MarkR (Oct 31, 2014)

trysquare said:


> You will have to verify this in Virginia, but it is my understanding that no PHA GLs allow multiple membership.


Both Minnesota Grand Lodges allow plural membership between the Grand Lodges, but if we're not the only one, there are only a couple.  We have quite a few men who belong to both PHA and GLoM lodges, including the current AF&AM Grand Master and the PHA Senior Warden (who is a lodge secretary and District Rep in AF&AM.)


----------



## dfreybur (Oct 31, 2014)

trysquare said:


> You will have to verify this in Virginia, but it is my understanding that no PHA GLs allow multiple membership.



In MWPHGLofTX it is called "associate membership".  They may not use the same words but the status is the same.  So some do and the terminology varies.  Need to ask the local jurisdictions in question and vary the wording of the question a few times to get past language barriers.


----------

