# One Day Classes



## Blake Bowden (Feb 18, 2009)

http://www.la-mason.com/stb83.htm

Your opinion...


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## jonesvilletexas (Feb 18, 2009)

I am going to give this some thought before making any judgment!


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## fairbanks1363pm (Feb 18, 2009)

this is the same thing that our Scottish rite does except you go through more degrees in the SR.  I was interested in the statistics on how many of the brothers stuck around and participated in lodge. We make our guys learn the esotoric work and then many of them dissapear.  Ive always thought memory work doesnt make you a mason. I think this has merrit although im glad I did it the way I did it.   Brother Blake you are doing a great job with this website!


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## jwardl (Feb 18, 2009)

I do not support it at all. Perhaps it would bring in more members, but at what cost?

Agreed, masonry isn't ABOUT the memory work -- but it is a traditional part of what we are. If we're to swing in the breeze, what makes us any different than any other organization? Part of what makes masonry different and special is that we stick to our old traditions, and WORK is actually required to join and belong. The memorization prepares us for the real work we begin upon becoming a master mason.

IMHO, men who join masonry through one day classes haven't joined the fraternity at all. They've joined something that USED to be the oldest and largest fraternity in the world.


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## Bro. Stewart P.M. (Feb 18, 2009)

Just call me a stubborn old "younger" goat.

I believe that every new petitioner should discover the Mysteries of Freemasonry in the EXACT same way that I did, and my Brothers before me. I am one of the ones who is dead set against the removal of the 2nd and 3rd sections of the EA degree as discussed at Grand Lodge, for the simple reason that I worked too hard to learn all those Questions and Answers for some newbie Brother to only be responsible for a 3rd of the information.

Some of the elder Brothers were suprised of my reaction to the EA lecture discusson of the Grand Lodge. I assume because of my youth. Most were pleased how much respect I developed for the estorical lectures and thier teachings.


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## Jon D. Smith (Feb 18, 2009)

I feel like it is a reflection of what has been going on in American across many areas in increasing (and alarming) frequency..."curves" or "balancing adjustments". In order to make things "fair", in order to make things "equal".

Gentlemen, I submit that this does not make things fair or equal. It diminishes the work of those that work hard to obtain their personal goals and gives the impression to those that enjoy the "free ride" that all of life should be adjusted to make things "fair" for them. These broad statements are made reflecting upon what has been happening in our schools, in our politics, in our jobs.

This is no way meant to say that nothing good can come from it. 
Certainly there are individuals that would strive to learn the work after being accepted and Raised via this fast track method.
Certainly there are members that came in via this method that can and probably do make wonderful contributions to our beliefs and their communities.

It is my postion that if our country, as a whole continues, allows this overall method of "curving" to give those of less desire to work their goals so readily, those that are willing to work hard may (over time and generations) cease to work as hard. 
This would not apply to all however; increasing numbers as time progresses...

My .02


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## Bill Lins (Feb 18, 2009)

According to numerous articles and studies on the subject, Grand Lodges which have "All the way in 1 Day" do not draw or retain members any more than we do. Some years ago, at GM Patterson's Fiat Lux Conference, we heard from a Brother who had become a Mason in a "one day class" in another state. He told us that after seeing how we do it, he felt cheated by how he had been initiated. He wished he had done it the old-fashioned way.


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## Robert Marshall (Feb 18, 2009)

Call me a traditionalist, and I'm much like Brother Stewart. I'm quite young, but I think it would be kick in the nuts to Masonry's ideals for the memory work to be thrown out in any capacity. I recently purchased a Monitor that was published in 1889. Now, in the grand scheme of things, this isn't too long ago, but it IS 120 years. As with modern Monitors, scattered throughout the book are bits and pieces of the memory work. It's dang near word for word with what we have now. To me, this IS Masonry. We are a fraternity of like-minded individuals who are joined together for a common cause, to improve ourselves in Masonry. If we drop these time-tested Q&A, can we even say that George Washington would consider us as his Masonic brethren? Gentlemen, I'm only 18. I'm aware that until quite recently, I would not have been allowed to join the Fraternity, and that this rule was changed in hopes of encouraging new members, and I'm very grateful for that. BUT, this was a change in age requirement, NOT a change in work requirement. I was raised on January 31, and as of today, February 18, I'm halfway through the three sections of EA memory work. Upon first hearing this work, I was amazed and thought that certainly, I would graduate from college before becoming a Master. Now, I'm equally amazed at how fast a mind can absorb information in so short a time, if one so dedicates himself. And THAT'S the real driving point of my perception on this subject. If an entering Mason doesn't want to learn the memory work, then, as many have done before him, let him slowly soak it in over time, and when he's ready, he'll be ready, but let's not take away tried and true tradition for the sake of appeasing us new guys. If this had already been done before I was entered, I'm confident that I would have opted to memorize the work anyway. It's integral. Necessary. It proves one's intentions in joining the fraternity. Without it, any person, whether he be true and worthy or refractory and refusing, can easily be among us. I'm all for exploring new ways to expand masonry, but not at the expense of its integrity. The last thing I want is to doubt whether the new guy in my very lodge is nothing but a note-takin, eaves-droppin, intruder. In my honest opinion, with the removal of the memory work, masonry, itself, dies shortly thereafter. How ironic would it be that in our efforts to attract more brothers, we kill the whole tradition.


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## fairbanks1363pm (Feb 19, 2009)

Do we know that George Washington had to learn Q&A.  I know to this day in England they dont.  They have a page of code that they turn in.  Dont get me wrong brethren im teaching two ea's now and got an A cert a year ago.  I love the ritual.  Douglass McArthur was basicly made a mason in a day.  Do we consider him any less a brother?  Not all states require q&a.  We still call these men brothers..


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## owls84 (Feb 19, 2009)

Just going to say I'm not a big fan of it.


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## jonesvilletexas (Feb 19, 2009)

This has been going around for some time now and I believe that there might be a purpose in makeing a man a Mason in one day, for one example, a man going to war, but would be required to finish his work upon returning. I for one fell that by working through the lessons in the three degrees I have learned a little more that a brother that received it all in one day.


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## Wingnut (Feb 19, 2009)

If it were easy everyone would have a S&C.  Im not a supporter of "McMasonry".  By lowering our standards and our expectations we may temporarily increase numbers, but the cost will be too great.  The proficiency isnt just about learning to parrot the words.  You should also be learning the meanings behind them.  The bonds formed by most instructors and candidates are life long.  These bonds are what make good men better, not learning how to repeat the words.  

Learning the words however, does set brothers up for learning the degree work.  I learn something new at every degree I witness, and Ive been to well over 100 degrees and participated in most of them in some form.


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## C_Cabra (Feb 27, 2009)

I am against one day classes. 

In certain instances I feel exceptions could be made. 

If I am being perfectly honest the fact that you get all the Scottish Rite degrees in a few days is probably the main reason I did not bother to join the Scottish Rite.  Before I became a Mason I had invisioned working my way up through all of these degrees. Working to pass to a 19th degree Scottish Rite Mason for instance.  I was very dissapointed when I discovered it was not structured this way.


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## Blake Bowden (Feb 27, 2009)

Oh, I forgot to add my opnion. Should we allow one day classes?

*NO*


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## rhitland (Feb 27, 2009)

I find the memory work to act as a sail so to speak, to allow me to more quickly and better navigate the Craft for the betterment of my life. The memory work is part of Masonry's directions to assemble your spiritual building, and like all uf us I have put together that toy on Christmas eve or whenever and not followed directions, which usauly leaves a piece or two for me to wonder where it goes. I think the root of the mempry work problem is teacher and the stundent, almost 90% of the time they are 2 generations apart and cannot keep each other intrested so it seems as if your are just going through the motions and there is no real reason for the memory work. This is an outgoing problem though with more and more younger guys joining and having mediums such as this website to express their feelings about the work and hear others, all the while the "older guys" are coming outta the wood works to help and assist their younger Brothers.


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## jwardl (Feb 27, 2009)

jonesvilletexas said:


> This has been going around for some time now and I believe that there might be a purpose in makeing a man a Mason in one day, for one example, a man going to war, but would be required to finish his work upon returning. I for one fell that by working through the lessons in the three degrees I have learned a little more that a brother that received it all in one day.



I have the utmost respect for our military, but wouldn't support a one-day class even in this instance. A man who is capable of going through the normal process should do so -- no exceptions. IMHO, ramming one through is cheating the craft, every brother who learned the work the proper way, and more importantly -- the candidate himself.

I'm aware of a candidate who is being put through in this manner, presumably for this very reason, tomorrow -- with the blessing and presence of GM Counts. It is the GM's prerogative to make such a decision, of course -- but I must say, I disagree.

Anyone aware of this, and what the circumstances/reasons are?


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## eagle1966 (Feb 27, 2009)

do we want masons or do we want dues payers?


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## TCShelton (Feb 27, 2009)

I got all three degrees done on me within a week and a half several years ago for that very reason, on the condition that when I returned, I would give back all the work.  When I got back, I gave back all three proficiencies back-to-back-to-back.  I think it works fine if you are dedicated to learning it, and a high standard is set.


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## Nate C. (Feb 28, 2009)

This is increasingly commonplace in other GL jurisdictions.  It is the norm in California, where it seemed going through the 'long form' was viewed almost as a novelty.  I think the candidate misses out when this path is taken, but I think jurisdictions should be able to as they deem appropriate.


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## Joey (Feb 28, 2009)

blake said:


> Oh, I forgot to add my opnion. Should we allow one day classes?
> 
> *NO*



I agree.


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## js4253 (Feb 28, 2009)

TCShelton said:


> I got all three degrees done on me within a week and a half several years ago for that very reason, on the condition that when I returned, I would give back all the work.  When I got back, I gave back all three proficiencies back-to-back-to-back.  I think it works fine if you are dedicated to learning it, and a high standard is set.




I agree.  The Brothers who have the desire, whether they spent one day or seven years to become a Master Mason, will stick with the learning process and excel.


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## nick1368 (Feb 28, 2009)

Not a big fan either


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## Robert Marshall (Feb 28, 2009)

js4253 said:


> I agree.  The Brothers who have the desire, whether they spent one day or seven years to become a Master Mason, will stick with the learning process and excel.



This is more than acceptable. Several have mentioned that the one day thing should be permissible to those with special circumstances. A soldier should certainly be allowed to, with the intent of learning the work when he can. I fully back this, but I don't like the idea of someone "all the way, in one day" just because they didn't want to do the memory work. It's such a meaningful part of Masonry. On this, we rear our future moral and masonic edifice.


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## Blake Bowden (Jan 6, 2010)

Does that mean  I'm not a legit SR or YR Mason? Most of my SR experience was like a blur as everything happened so fast and many of the degrees were communicated via power point. 

Do we learn more from our initiation and proficiencies, or the light that we receive once we become active Masons?


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## JTM (Jan 6, 2010)

blake said:


> Does that mean  I'm not a legit SR or YR Mason? Most of my SR experience was like a blur as everything happened so fast and many of the degrees were communicated via power point.
> 
> Do we learn more from our initiation and proficiencies, or the light that we receive once we become active Masons?


 you took the proficiency, didn't you?


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## Blake Bowden (Jan 6, 2010)

Nah, I skipped all of it :8:


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## Smokey613 (Jan 6, 2010)

Same here. I really enjoyed the Scottish Rite degrees I experienced but to be honest, my travels through all the degrees and orders  in the York Rite were more memorable. It took me almost a year to complete them all.


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## js4253 (Jan 6, 2010)

blake said:


> Does that mean  I'm not a legit SR or YR Mason? Most of my SR experience was like a blur as everything happened so fast and many of the degrees were communicated via power point.


 
Sorry Blake!


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## drapetomaniac (Jan 6, 2010)

For those who don't know, the Austin Valley is trying to exemplify one degree every month.  Which means in two years, anyone who attends regularly will have seen all the degrees.

Tonight is the 11th degree.

Also, going through the Master Craftsman program has helped significantly in retention because you go through the details of each degree.  I haven't been able to find the same level of introspection on the blue degrees, except in independent readings.


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## Bro_Vick (Jan 16, 2010)

I am going to play devil's advocate, first those that think that men who have gone through one day classes are less of a Mason, or not really one at all is false.  Bro Chris Hodapp Masonic author and founding member of the Masonic Journal is a product of one day classes, that happened because the lodge he joined was dying and was only able to properly perform the EA, they couldn't get anyone to come out an help for the other two degrees so he went to a one day class to get the FC and MM.

Also, history has shown that Masonry has done one day classes, Joseph Smith founder of the Church of Ladder Day Saints was made a "Mason at sight" and was given all three degrees in 48 hours, so the concept of one day classes isn't by any means a "new" idea.

I see them as being a tool to potentially help lodges that can't support themselves in the work, I know we have "degree teams" but those are usually centered around urban areas, and not so much in the rural towns.  They also could help for men that are deploying, as of right now you can only surpass the EA question and answers, but not FC or MM.  The Grand Master usually won't wave that as being a member of a lodge with a high number of military men, we usually have to deal with this situation once or twice a year.

That being said I do think that one day classes do cheapen the experience for the candidate as opposed to going through the degrees, and that they are a quick way for the Shrine to get men into their organization (which is a completely different subject).  If they are offered once a year and are for only special circumstances, than I don't see them as beginning of the end of Freemasonry.

-Bro Vick


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## Christopher (Jan 18, 2010)

I disagree with one-day classes for everyone, and honestly, I do think that includes SR and YR.  I think the question is what is a man supposed to get out of Freemasonry.  What does it give him?  The two sides of the coin, IMHO, are inculcation in him of a particular system of ethics and guidance in living his life by them, and fellowship with men who follow the same path as he.

The first purpose is bound up in the ritual.  As is so often quoted, Masonry is a system of ethics taught through symbols veiled in allegory (or something like that).  We inculcate in ourselves the morals of Masonry when we receive the degrees, when we confer the degrees, and when we learn and teach the memory work.  The second is bound up within the time spent with the Brothers, usually over pre-meeting meals.

It is often said that the symbolism and allegory of Masonry is so rich and deep that a man could spend a lifetime searching it and never exhaust it possibilities or its teaching potential.  If that is so, how could we ever expect a man to absorb all there is to absorb in just the outer coat of the three degrees when he has all three of them thrust upon him in one day?  As someone pointed out, Scottish Rite presents even more information in one day, and York Rite even more.    No, it doesn't make you not legitimately a Master Mason, a 32 degree Mason, or Sir Knight, but it takes half the purpose of each of those bodies, the inculcation of certain moral lessons, and attempts to fulfill it in 24 hours.  Anyone here fancy taking a full calculus course in a week?

Now let me ask a heretical question:  What is so special about being a Mason?  The practice of our Craft, the way it is currently done, is really quite boring.  Don't get me wrong, becoming a Mason was one of the best things I ever did, and the day I was raised will forever be a highlight of my life.  But the stated meetings, the business, the administration of our lodges and charities...it's not exactly a barrel of monkeys.  The reason that we do it, though, the reason that it's so important to be involved in how the lodge is run, is that keeping the lodge open means that the degrees in Masonry will continue to be available to good men in your community.  IMHO, the administration of the lodge is subservient to the degrees.

In regards to a soldier being a Mason, what does he even get out of it?  A Masonic funeral if killed in action?  What is so special about *being* a Master Mason that a man should prefer it over the profound and life-changing process of *becoming* a Master Mason?  I see no reason that being a Mason is so critical a life-goal that a soldier should be allowed to dispense with the regular workings of the Craft to ensure that when he deploys to a hostile environment he is a Mason upon arrival.  Freemasonry neither gives you protection in battle, a stronger camaraderie with your fellow soldiers (what bond could surpass that shared amongst men who have faced death together?), nor promise of a better afterlife should you die in war.  The only advantage I could see is the ability to attend lodge if there are travelling lodges active in the armed forces.  However, if that is the case, I see no reason to deny those lodges the honor of raising their brother-in-arms themselves, and certainly that means that he will have brothers available to him to teach him his memory work, though I can't imagine you really have time for that during an active duty deployment.

If all a man is looking for is the opportunity to fellowship with good men and give to charity, there are many places and organizations for him.  But Masonry, unlike all of those other organizations has another part to it, and that's the reason it has survived all these long years when other fraternities have withered with the passing of the age of fraternalism and the coming of the age of television and the Wii.  That part is only found in the conferral of the three degrees in Masonry and the learning of the memory work.

As for the appendant bodies, I recently petitioned my local York rite bodies.  I chose the York Rite specifically because I did not want any "festival" degrees.  In fact, I spoke with someone and made certain that I would be able to receive the York Rite degrees in the traditional manner if my petition was approved.

My not-nearly-as-humble-as-it-probably-ought-to-be, stuck-in-my-ways-traditionalist-at-23-years-old opinion...


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## Bro_Vick (Jan 19, 2010)

<i>In regards to a soldier being a Mason, what does he even get out of it?</i>

I don't know if your intent was, but I don’t appreciate your tone.  I am assuming from what you wrote here that you have never served, but the reason that men who are going through the progression of the degrees sometime have to be accelerated due to deployment is because they may die in harms way.  The brother would like to experience the rights, lights and privileges before he deploys to enable him the same enlightment that you had.  While chances are good that the brother would return, the looming fact of death hangs over his head.  This makes the Master Masons degree much more powerful to him when he experiences it.  It has nothing to do with the afterlife, protection in battle or the other "reasons" you mentioned.  If you are raised in a Texas A.F. & A.M. lodge chances are very slim that you would ever sit in lodge in a deployed environment because charters aren't being issued at this time by grand jurisdictions recognized by the GLoTX, if you are raised in Prince Hall, then chances are you will have that opportunity.

I know this response seems "short" but your glib attitude about men in deployed situations seems that you really didn't think your response through, or understand their mindset or sacrifices they endure.  I would encourage you to discuss this with brothers who have deployed to better educate yourself on the matter.

-Bro Vick


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## owls84 (Jan 19, 2010)

I have not posted in some time on here but I have been hanging back and reading. Brother Christopher, we as a lodge felt that the Brother that is serving his country and his fellow man has learned much of what is taught. Yes there are the exceptions to the rule. You call yourself a traditionalist and at one time I felt the same way about EVERYONE must know the memory work but now being a Mason for over 2 years and probably have dealt with 10 years of issues in my Lodge I feel my thoughts on this have changed just as yours may one day. 

The memory work is fairly recent. Back in the 1920's none of that was mandatory and in foreign jurisdictions, even outside of Texas, they have gotten out of the habit of mandatory memory work. If a Lodge mandates itself to bring in ONLY those worthy then what does it matter how well he can remember. I have members that have tried until they were blue in the face to remember the work but just could not retain it. However they have a place in my lodge because we have placed them in a position that is their strong point. I don't think they will ever be in a chair but not every swinging Richard should. 

I guess my question is how far of a traditionalist are you? If you want to get to the meat and potatoes of Masonry who better deserving of being raised to the sublime degree of Master Mason that a man that is putting his life on the line for TOTAL strangers? I know I have never done any act of Brotherly Love that could even compare to this. Remember also, it is not a given that dispensation will be granted. The Lodge must first request it. Remember we all choose a path in this fraternity and someone else’s may not be the same but that doesn't make it the wrong path, it makes it our path. 

I hope this helps give you insight as to why I asked for dispensation for the Brother in Iraq.


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## drapetomaniac (Jan 19, 2010)

Josh, 
Thanks for the explanation of why, I've been mulling it over for a while and it's good to see a masonic reason attached.

Bro Vick,
I think Christopher's question was a fair one.  Outside of masonry, what other things do people do before being deployed?  Other memberships?  The way its talked about is almost like a baptism.  And yes, for those who have never deployed with a group of men, we don't know.  Likewise, I imagine soldiers who don't have family or friends who were freemasons might care less.  

Most of the reasons I've heard have to do with prior family being masons, and "always meaning to do it." Which is fine for them, but there should be internal masonic reasons for admitting men as well.  I come from a multigenerational military family and I don't know a single one who would want to be made a mason before deploying - and believe most would avoid it.

I think for those who aren't soldiers, a lot needs to be explained and verbalized in various situations.  And probably vice versa.

"If you are raised in a Texas A.F. & A.M. lodge chances are very slim that you would ever sit in lodge in a deployed environment because charters aren't being issued at this time by grand jurisdictions recognized by the GLoTX, if you are raised in Prince Hall, then chances are you will have that opportunity."

Another reason for visitation ;-}  We've had men deployed again and again from Texas for almost a decade now in these recent wars.  Men in 41 (?)  other states can sit in lodge together over there.


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## Christopher (Jan 19, 2010)

Brother Vick, my father is a former Marine who served in Vietnam; my grandfather was in the Navy and served in World War II.  Almost all of my close friends are prior service, including combat in Bosnia, Iraq, and Afghanistan.  I have no illusions about deployed life.  Our difference of opinion isn't because I don't think men die in war.  I wasn't trying to be either rude, offensive, glib, or minimizing, and I'm sorry if it came across that way.  I'd appreciate the benefit of the doubt from a Brother.

Brother Josh, thank you for your response.  One of the reasons for my post is so many people talk about special dispensations for deploying soldiers like it's a complete given, part of the way the world works.  I've never heard anyone give a reason why they requested it.  I see your point about the memory work not being "ancient", but at the same time, the time between the degrees was greater, I believe.  Current GLoTX law states that 14 days is the minimum time between degrees, if I'm not mistaken.  In many jurisdictions in the world, however, I think 6 months to a year is customary.  If we go back even further, an operative mason was expected to be a Fellowcraft most of his life.  Even with proficiency in the memory work being requisite for advancement to the degree of Master Mason, I don't think I'm far off to say that men now spend less time as Fellowcrafts than as any other degree. So the point isn't really about the memory work, so much as it's about allowing men sufficient time to savor the lessons of one degree before giving them the lessons of the next one.  Obviously the world's not ideal, and I understand some understand some people wanting special dispensations.  Maybe this is just my bias towards what I love most in Masonry.  I don't have any problem with other Brothers not seeing it my way, and maybe I will feel differently in 10 years.  But I still think my opinion's valid.

As for a deploying soldier already showing the virtues of a Master Mason, I see your point.  But I would ask, if our job is to take good men and make them great men (paraphrasing the usual slogan), what do we expect to teach a great man?


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## drapetomaniac (Jan 21, 2010)

Christopher said:


> As for a deploying soldier already showing the virtues of a Master Mason, I see your point.  But I would ask, if our job is to take good men and make them great men (paraphrasing the usual slogan), what do we expect to teach a great man?


 
I honestly keep thinking of the first working tool in this regard.


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## Wingnut (Jan 21, 2010)

My question is and has been when this has come up in my lodges...  why havent they petitioned before if Masonry is that important to them?  Especially if they are older than say 23.  Its not an automatic exclusion just a question that goes to WHY they want to be a Mason now.  Bro Rich brought up an excellent point.  There is no lodge overseas recognized by the GLoTX they can attend.  Ive seen 6 of these type initiations in the last few years but have yet to see someone that got the one day come back and do their work...

and before someone asks, yes I was in the military, for 21 years.


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## Raven (Jan 22, 2010)

I do not agree with 1 day clases for making a master mason.


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## owls84 (Jan 22, 2010)

> This is something that I had always knew that I wanted when I saw my Grandfather's apron when I was 12.  I do not want my apron placed in or on my grave is because of a family tradition that I have just became apart of. The brothers of 148 that met my Uncle when I was raised, will know that we are not sure how much long he will be with us. He just turned 81. After I was raised, he of coarse rode with me, so I took him home. Once we got to his house he presented me with his apron and my great grandfather's apron that he was named after. They both were raised in the same lodge in Morton TX. He never had a son so I was like the son he never had. So now I will continue the tradition. I have a son that is only 5 yrs but who knows, maybe some day...



This is a quote from a guy that in RIGHT now in Iraq about 6 hours north of Baghdad. This is SSG_Morrison on this website. He is able to communicate with us every single day. Yeah there may not be a Lodge in Iraq but there are MANY Brothers and this Brother is now surrounded by family. So, you now see why we are not so quick to rule out a Brother serving. If we did not give him this oppurtunity his uncle may have never been given the the chance to do what he did. Guys we can't get caught up in the logistics of Masonry but the lessons that are important and that isn't decided by a text on a dues card.


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## drapetomaniac (Jan 22, 2010)

owls84 said:


> TSo, you now see why we are not so quick to rule out a Brother serving.


 
I don't think the questions was of ruling out soldiers.  It was more of the question of special exceptions (at least for those not deployed around the same time they come of age).


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## owls84 (Jan 22, 2010)

I apologize if I misread the statement but I though Brother Wingnut was asking why should them going to Iraq or being deployed have any bearing on them being raised before they go. To that I gave why I thought it was important. Is that incorrect?


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## drapetomaniac (Jan 22, 2010)

Meh.  no need for apologies I might be misreading too.

Here's what I see in this conversation - getting deployed is a "come to jesus moment"  (in my un-deployed opinion).  People probably do "come to Jesus" and the other thing we all see is a spring of weddings before deployments.

While serving your country is an extremely admiral thing, I don't think a 30 year old man deciding to do all of the degrees in an extremely short time necessarily show a good reason for becoming a mason.  It sounds a bit like "I'm scared as sh** and I've been suddenly forced to think about my legacy and have to hurry really fast"

A perfectly reasonable and human response.  But what of the plumber  on their deathbed or diagnosed with terminal disease?  What if they're soldiers with terminal diseases?

I'm not sure I fully object to this.  But running through the degrees (unless your 18 or 21, just turning of age and signed up) seemed very much like an "O S**" moment instead of an meditated ASK moment. 

The only reason I don't fully object is because I believe the Chamber of Reflection is a pretty solid way of making a good man better.


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## TexMass (Jan 31, 2010)

I've helped with a state wide One Day Class.  I don't care for it but I support it if the GL ask me to help.  Of the several Brothers I've kept intouch with who were raised like this, they all say the same thing "I wish I would have gone through the degrees naturally".


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## Wingnut (Feb 1, 2010)

That was my point exactly!  If they have been eligible to become a Mason for many years and have not sought initiation, why suddenly should the craft make exceptions for them?  If it is that important it should have been done earlier.  Again, there is NOT a lodge in Iraq they can attend as all are PHA because of the exclusive jurisdiction issue and no 'mainstream' lodges have issued a charter or dispensation to meet.


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## S.Courtemanche (Feb 2, 2010)

Hey everyone new here, I have my EA ceremony in two weeks. I myself am actually looking forward to the work to become a master mason (o:


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## Blake Bowden (Feb 3, 2010)

Awesome!


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## Raven (Feb 4, 2010)

Great! Welcome to the forum, friend!


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## cemab4y (Feb 11, 2010)

I am a civilian Mason, currently deployed to Iraq. Unhappily, there are no operating F&AM lodges, anywhere in Iraq or Afghanistan. There are only Prince Hall lodges here. 

During WW2, many lodges operated "round the clock" to assist deploying soldiers in completing the ritual work, when the soldier was deploying. Many of these Masons went to war, and made the supreme sacrifice. Many returned, and went on to serve Masonry well.

I reside in Virginia (My masonic membership is in Kentucky). Virginia has One-Day classes, and has had them for several years. In the Washington DC metro area, where I live, many men have to spend several hours per day commuting, and thus attending degree work during the week is impossible. Having ODC's on Saturdays, has enabled many men to be able to participate in Freemasonry, who otherwise never could.

Several states currently permit ODC's, most have had favorable success with their programs. The current GM of Florida, has stated that there will be no ODC's during his time in office. 

I prefer to keep an open mind, with respect to ODC's. In my state of residence, many of the ODC grads have gone on to serve Masonry ( and the appendant/concordant bodies) well. 

If a man completes a ODC, and then wishes to view the degree work on a more traditional schedule, he is certainly free to attend degree work, later on.


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## Andrew Makin (Feb 11, 2010)

cemab4y said:


> I am a civilian Mason, currently deployed to Iraq. Unhappily, there are no operating F&AM lodges, anywhere in Iraq or Afghanistan. There are only Prince Hall lodges here.
> If a man completes a ODC, and then wishes to view the degree work on a more traditional schedule, he is certainly free to attend degree work, later on.


 
Greetings Can you not visit a Prince Hall Lodge? I was under the impression that they were now recognised Mind you I am speaking as an English Mason
Sorry what is an ODC
Mind how you go Brother and get home safe

Andrew


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## Andrew Makin (Feb 11, 2010)

sorry I had not worked out how to show the entire thread Now I do know what an ODC is

We do not have them in England

Andrew


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## JTM (Feb 11, 2010)

ODC = one day class.


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## Zack (Feb 11, 2010)

QUOTE The current GM of Florida, has stated that there will be no ODC's during his time in office.QUOTE

APPLAUSE, APPLAUSE


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## cemab4y (Feb 11, 2010)

My Grand Lodge considers all Prince Hall lodges to be "clandestine". If I attend a Prince Hall lodge, I can be suspended or expelled.


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## Andrew Makin (Feb 12, 2010)

I wonder why that is
I am sure it cant be because they are Black can it?
I am sure we recognise PH Lodges so I probably cant correspond with you as we probably don't recognise your mother constitution

Read your Kipling and hope the guy in the gun tower protecting you is not a racist shit like you

Andrew Makin
4525 English cons 
And very angry that you were even admitted

*This post earned this user an infraction (5 pts)

-JTM*


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## Zack (Feb 12, 2010)

How did a discussion on ODC's turn into this?


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## Blake Bowden (Feb 12, 2010)

Andrew Makin said:


> I wonder why that is
> I am sure it cant be because they are Black can it?
> I am sure we recognise PH Lodges so I probably cant correspond with you as we probably don't recognise your mother constitution
> 
> ...


 
You should brush up your history before you come to this site and personally attack a Brother Mason.


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## drapetomaniac (Feb 12, 2010)

Andrew Makin said:


> Read your Kipling and hope the guy in the gun tower protecting you is not a racist shit like you


 
Besides being defamatory and entirely uncivil - this is like calling an abolitionist or freedman in a slave state a slaveowner.

GL laws and actions are separate from the men in those jurisdictions.  On any issue, a man can only be judged on the stance or action he himself took or is able to take.


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## cemab4y (Feb 14, 2010)

My Grand Lodge accepts men of all races, colors, and creeds. The current Grand Master has issued an edict stating this fact. At the current time, there are about 13 Grand Lodges, that do not recognize Prince Hall Masonry.  Sadly, my Grand Lodge is one of them. Negotiations are underway, to recognize Prince Hall Masonry. I am thrilled that my home Grand Lodge is moving towards this worthy goal. I belong to three lodges, two of which recognize Prince Hall Masonry. But my home lodge membership "trumps" my other two memberships, and I could be disciplined for attending a Prince Hall lodge meeting.


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## JTM (Feb 15, 2010)

Woah.  where did this come from?

Feel free to report those posts.  

Get it back on track or it'll be locked.


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## Stewart Cook (Mar 26, 2010)

Unacceptable. Thoroughly unacceptable. 
Mouth to ear...as it has always been done...nothing less...or a lesser Mason it will make.


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## Huw (Mar 28, 2010)

Hi Wes.



fairbanks1363pm said:


> Do we know that George Washington had to learn Q&A. I know to this day in England they dont.


 
That's not quite fair, Bro.  We do have some Q&A here in England, but it's quite brief.  But yes, I understand that over there you have a significantly longer version.

T & F,

Huw


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## Huw (Mar 28, 2010)

A view from England:  I don't like the idea of ODCs at all.  Freemasonry isn't a bunch of words, it's a transformational experience.  I can't see how an ODC could give a Candidate the same sort of experience which the rest of us have had, going through each Degree, thinking about it, letting the lesson sink in a little, wondering about what might come next, and then progressing:  the waiting-time between Degrees is an important part of how it works.  I can accept that some ODC Candidates can come back afterwards, and see the work done in the traditional manner, and thereby catch up on what they missed out during the ODC ... but if they've got time to do that, then surely they're showing that they would actually have had time to do it the traditional way in the first place?  And if they don't come back afterwards, then what the heck was the point of putting them through the ODC at all?  In England we've never done a mass ODC (and I doubt that we ever will), and we've very rarely done an all-in-one-day ceremony even for one Candidate at a time (although dispensations have been granted for that in a few special cases - but there's got to be an exceptional reason, it might happen once per decade in the whole country).

Another view from England:  I apologise for my fellow English Brother who posted in this thread earlier and became abusive, especially since he had jumped to an incorrect conclusion on the basis of incomplete information.

T & F,

Huw


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## JEbeling (Mar 28, 2010)

Well in Texas the question and answers as we know them today were only adopted in the 30's and 40's ... ! They have been under change by the committee on "Hope and Change" from that time forward... ! up until that time I understand a few sign, few grips.. etc were all that was required...?


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## Bill Lins (Mar 28, 2010)

Huw said:


> A view from England:  I don't like the idea of ODCs at all.  Freemasonry isn't a bunch of words, it's a transformational experience.  I can't see how an ODC could give a Candidate the same sort of experience which the rest of us have had, going through each Degree, thinking about it, letting the lesson sink in a little, wondering about what might come next, and then progressing:  the waiting-time between Degrees is an important part of how it works.  I can accept that some ODC Candidates can come back afterwards, and see the work done in the traditional manner, and thereby catch up on what they missed out during the ODC ... but if they've got time to do that, then surely they're showing that they would actually have had time to do it the traditional way in the first place?  And if they don't come back afterwards, then what the heck was the point of putting them through the ODC at all?


 
I agree entirely. Great post, Huw!


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## Chuckfw (Apr 7, 2010)

I agree 100%. I have known brothers who were disappointed that their proficiency before the lodge was interrupted and the vote was positive before they could finish. The numbers game will make the fraternity weak over a period of time. Just my .02!


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## S.Courtemanche (Apr 7, 2010)

I just turned in my EA proficiency this past Monday 1 1/2 months after my EA ceremony, my FC ceremony will be on the 5th of May (o: 

I personally wouldn't want it any other way. 

I also worked the Jr Warden role for two other EA ceremonies and three Master of Ceremonies, for three other EA Degrees.


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## JBD (Apr 7, 2010)

I am completely opposed to it - in the Blue, York and SR - 

I went through BL fairly quickly, without strict requirements for proficiency and I had to learn it on my own and fast since I travel. 

In SR it was 1 day, terminal degrees only - retained 2-3% - again had to (and am continuing) study on my own.

YR - Old school - one degree at a time - GREAT Experience - less "memory" work in YR, but the esoteric meanings are tough to come by.

In the way TQ&A is typically looked upon - it is nothing but memorization.  *The key to Masonic work is Masonic interaction*.  I have access to a number of long time Masons - don't put them in the corner, LISTEN - LISTEN CLOSELY - I have learned more about BEING a Mason from those men than all the Q&A, Certificates, Protocols that I have completed and there are several.

The ALL Program - it is NOT outdated- what it is, i*s poorly presented in most cases* - it is not a filli-in, turn in.  It never was designed that way - it is a review, mark in pencil and discuss with the old guy who comes in and doesn't do anything any more because he doesn't recognize anything anymore.  You cannot get 5 guys who know anything about Masonry at all around a table without at LEAST 2-3 different answers to a lot of the questions.

This site and forum are invaluable for the 21st century Mason - but it is neither more nor less valuable than traditional one on one.
The same is true for multiple day degree work.

I one day Zero to Hero is crazy - this fraternity  is not about obtaining degrees - it is not about the"ritual" either - it is about a change.
The change in a man to make a good man better is in companionship, understanding, awareness, study, emulation, example, reflection.

The degree may "Make" or give you the name "Mason"  but it is the understanding the Makes A Mason - Making one is easy Making Yourself a Mason is the difficult part. 

In TX until you begin to understand the meaning (not the words) of the 2nd section you are not even close to your Masonic train leaving the station -your journey is still stuck at the gate.

NONE of this happens in a one day anything - it doesn't matter what.  We are talking CHANGE not titles

OK,did anyone see where Blake put the ladder so I can  get down off my soapbox?


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## jim9361 (Apr 7, 2010)

I just completed part one of my EA.  I will soon turn in my part 2 & 3.  I can tell you that each and every time I have sat down with a MM to practice my work I have gotten something out of it.  Each session has made the what, how and why's more and more clear just through the memory work.  I do not think I could have or will get the same out of a ODC.


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## Bill Lins (Apr 8, 2010)

JBD said:


> The ALL Program - it is NOT outdated- what it is, i*s poorly presented in most cases* - it is not a filli-in, turn in.  It never was designed that way - it is a review, mark in pencil and discuss with the old guy who comes in and doesn't do anything any more because he doesn't recognize anything anymore.  You cannot get 5 guys who know anything about Masonry at all around a table without at LEAST 2-3 different answers to a lot of the questions.


 
There shouldn't be "2-3 different answers" to the questions in the A.L.L. program. The correct answers are in the resource materials. The problem is that the program hasn't been updated to reflect changes in the GL Law, thus some of the "correct" answers no longer are correct. GL is aware of the problem- it's just a matter of finding time to update the program & finding the money to pay for it.


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## JBD (Apr 9, 2010)

Bill - you and I agree about almost nothing, at least the way I write things, and your responses to my posts.  Where I was going is if you rephrase the question or redefine some of the terms to encourage discussion it is possible to come up with more than one answer to the question.  It was not designed to be fill-in - the real value I find is in the discussion and interaction between students and mentors.  

In any event there is value in the program regardless of the few issues you have to deal with related to changed GL Law.


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## PeterLT (Apr 17, 2010)

I am not a big fan of it at all. Just a cursory read of the GL description of the one-day Masons sounds like they are running a sausage factory. We have one day Brethren in some Canadian jurisdictions although overall it hasn't been well received here. Personally, I think it cheapens the experience and (dare I say) work involved in becoming a Freemason and practicing our gentle craft. 

Would you feel confident in a one day plumber? How's about a one day neurosurgeon? Masonry is a lifetime thing, if you don't have time to enter it properly, will you have time to practice it?

My two bits...


Peter


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## Bill Lins (Apr 17, 2010)

Excellent post!


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