# Trayvon Martin's Dad from a clandestine lodge?



## Cookboy4200

I heard that Tracy Martin is apart of some international master mason group. 


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## OES513

I am seeing the same thing..that he is international

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## Mason653

http://www.internationalmasons.org/index.html


/G\
FHC
357
FLT


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## bro jimmie

Wow very interesting


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## SDJob278

Whats wrong with International and when did it become clandestine?

Traveling Light


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## Bro. Stewart P.M.

Cookboy4200 said:


> I heard that Tracy Martin is apart of some international master mason group.
> 
> 
> Freemason Connect Mobile



What is your point?


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## muata

He is. I met him at a convention for unions last year in St. Louis and he greeted me as a brother.

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## Cookboy4200

Bro. Stewart said:


> What is your point?



No point. It was just something I heard. 


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## tldubb

What would you consider clandestine? Because to me there is a difference between unrecognized and clandestine? So, I would like to hear from the Brothers and Sisters in this forum. To clarify I would like the opinions of MM and OES.   


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## widows son

Unrecognized could still mean they are regular, just not recognized. Clandestine is neither.


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## bupton52

International is a clandestine organization that was created out of the blue with no lineage to the mother GLs. Their website states the following:

Having been incorporated and chartered in August of 1950; our Charter empowered International Masons to practice Freemasonry, and operate as a Masonic Order, throughout the United States, its possessions and territories. This American issued charter empowers International Masons to the same rights as those charters issued directly from the Grand Lodge of England or the Grand Orient of France. Dr. Banks and his host of friends established a National Jurisdiction. Through their diligent efforts the same year, three States were incorporated: Ohio, New York and Illinois.

They also receive bonuses for bringing in new members.


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## OES513

Freemasons or men whom improperly claming that they r freemasons and they unite in a lodge that has no consent of a Grand Lodge....or they continually perform work after ones charter has been revoked..
And to my knowledge Banks charter was revoked ..I'm in a group on facebook and one lady was claming she was a Pha....but researched showed her on a international page as a Past GM ..when confronted about it by the masonic group...it brought lots of drama about international and how Banks charter was revoked and they started the meetings in a beauty salon because grand lodge would not allow consent..now I'm not 100 on this ...I study eastern star not Masonic things...



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## OES513

What I have been taught in my 8yrs of traveling is that I recgonize AFAM and FAM and PHA as my SiStars and brothers..

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## bupton52

OES513 said:


> And to my knowledge Banks charter was revoked



Banks never had a "charter" to operate as a masonic body from a body that possessed the lineage discussed before.



OES513 said:


> I'm in a group on facebook and one lady was claming she was a Pha....but researched showed her on a international page as a Past GM ..when confronted about it by the masonic group...it brought lots of drama about international and how Banks charter was revoked and they started the meetings in a beauty salon because grand lodge would not allow consen



What is your name on FB? We may be in many of the same groups. I know the situation you are talking about.


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## OES513

Sent you a PM

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## Cookboy4200

They're conferring degrees without a charter. 


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## jvarnell

This is what I found.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZok0-kLRBc


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## BigDre357

The ignorance of this individual bothered me in this video

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## BigDre357

I have always been taught that clandestine lodges are operating without a charter or warrant but you can be regular and not recognized I don't know much about international but I know they are recognized and you can find their regalia on pretty much any Masonic website or in stores. I don't know if his lodge has a charter or not but I would hope that they do.

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## MarkR

BigDre357 said:


> ...I don't know much about international but I know they are recognized and you can find their regalia on pretty much any Masonic website or in stores.


I don't know of a single Grand Lodge that recognizes International.  If you can point one out, I'll stand corrected.  Someone selling their regalia simply means that someone is willing to make money from them, not that they're recognized.


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## BigDre357

MarkR said:


> I don't know of a single Grand Lodge that recognizes International.  If you can point one out, I'll stand corrected.  Someone selling their regalia simply means that someone is willing to make money from them, not that they're recognized.



All of the A.F.@A.M grand and subordinate lodges here in Tennessee that I know of recognize them and I don't see reputable sites such as lauterer.com and McCoy Publishers would just sell their regalia for profit and I have met a couple of those Brothers that has Tennessee Masonic license plates which you have to have documentation from a grand lodge from a recognized affiliation of Freemasons which the Tennessee Grand Lodge provides the state with that list per the agreement they have with the state for the license plates. PHA had to get their own tags so that they could have Masonic tags for their vehicles due to this. When I got my tags I had to have a letter from my Grand Secretary, a current dues card and could not be PHA affiliated which I am not, I am Scottish Rite.

SMIB /G\


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## Heart of Stone

They're considered clandestine in Chattanooga Tn.They have their meetings at the local Library.

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## BigDre357

Heart of Stone said:


> Not recognize in Chattanooga Tn.They have their meetings at the local Library..
> 
> Freemason Connect Mobile



They are recognized in the Nashville area where I am located the only 2I know of here that are not recognized is Universal and American

SMIB /G\


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## BigDre357

There is another one I forgot about them but they I forgot what they call themselves but they refer to lodges as chapters and they don't have grand lodges they have what they call the Illude 9 they are governed by a supreme body of 9 33Â° masons and they don't recognize all high houses they have about 9 lodges "chapters" here in Tennessee

SMIB /G\


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## OES513

INTERNATIONAL F. & A.M. MASONS AND OES Organized in 1950 by Dr. William V. Banks This fraternal organization was incorporated and chartered in August of 1950 in Detroit, Michigan by the UNITED STATES CHARTER AUTHORITY, DOVER, DELAWARE. (Per their website) This Charter empowered International Masons to practice Freemasonry, and operate as a Masonic Order, throughout the United States, its possessions and territories. This American issued charter empowers, International Masons to the same rights as those charters issued directly from the Grand Lodge of England or the Grand Orient of France. INTERNATIONAL MASONS WAS ISSUED AN AMERICAN CHARTER. ITS COST WAS $50,000.00. * Research has proven that there is no such entity entitled â€œ United States Charter Authority. What they use as a charter is incorporation papers from the State of Delaware. As was stated before, a State cannot create a Masonic organization.

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## bupton52

BigDre357 said:


> There is another one I forgot about them but they I forgot what they call themselves but they refer to lodges as chapters and they don't have grand lodges they have what they call the Illude 9 they are governed by a supreme body of 9 33Â° masons and they don't recognize all high houses they have about 9 lodges "chapters" here in Tennessee
> 
> SMIB /G\



The International organizations is not recognized as a legitimate masonic organization in Tennessee by either the MWPHGL of TN or the GL of TN. Please provide a source that says otherwise. What Grand Lodge are you a member of that recognizes them?


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## Heart of Stone

Most internationals drive all the way to Atlanta to attend lodge most would like to be healed by PHA, but since they paid a arm and leg to join the internationals.They refuse to go through the degree work all over.

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## tldubb

Does it really matter?


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## tldubb

If I find a Brother in need or duress I would come to his aid and or family members aid. Hope, faith and charity irregardless of affiliation.


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## crono782

tldubb said:


> If I find a Brother in need or duress I would come to his aid and or family members aid. Hope, faith and charity irregardless of affiliation.
> 
> 
> Freemason Connect Mobile



Well said. If I see a bro in need of help, I'm not going to check his dues card first, hah. 


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## Heart of Stone

I would help anybody Mason or not.

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## tldubb

Heart of Stone said:


> I would help anybody Mason or not.
> 
> Freemason Connect Mobile



True


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## Jamarr/G\

bupton52 said:


> The International organizations is not recognized as a legitimate masonic organization in Tennessee by either the MWPHGL of TN or the GL of TN. Please provide a source that says otherwise. What Grand Lodge are you a member of that recognizes them?




I 2nd that motion!  Being a member of the MWPHGLOTN.  To my knowledge that organization is NOT recognized!  If so show proof and I'll stand corrected. . I also agree with bro tldubb matters not if he is recognized or not if any brother is in need or distressed for any reason I have a obligation to lend a hand. . I'll help any brother or sister of any appedant body and any person in any community. 

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## BigDre357

crono782 said:


> Well said. If I see a bro in need of help, I'm not going to check his dues card first, hah.
> 
> 
> Freemason Connect Mobile



Lol I would hope not, but I have met brothers that wouldn't help you if you were bleeding to death if you were not black and or didn't have the right credentials. I wasn't RAISED that way you we were taught to help any brother in distress regardless our race or affiliation because we are all in it for the same reason supposedly. 

SMIB /G\


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## OES513

I must say I have seen SIStars that way as well....I am my SIstars keeper...but I have met some whom don't go by that at all and will curse another SiStar out in a heart beat....I've met brothers and SiStars universal whom helped my family before some Members in my lodge did......me personally once again will always b my SiStars keeper....

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## lourocks

We have them here in nyc they are every where we do not reconize them and due not talk masonary with them for the penalty in this state is bad we have Grsnd Lodge of New York and Grand Lidge of Pha that's it

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## lourocks

They are not massons international are con artists in nys if you talk massonary with one the penalty may be expulsion

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## lourocks

They dont have a grand lodge

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## dfreybur

tldubb said:


> Does it really matter?



I don't need science to teach me that all humanity is one family, but science teaches me that.  I don't need church to teach me that all humanity is one family, but church does teach me that.  Masonry teaches me that fellow Masons are brothers, one step closer than my cousins in the rest of humanity.  This is of course by adoption.

If I see someone giving the sign I'm not going to wait to check dues cards before I help them.  But there is more to it than that.  It does matter whether a lodge is valid.  There are degrees of regularity and irregularity but with recognition it's only yes or no.

If Masonry is to mean something in my actions then it needs to mean something that I can define and grasp.  Lineage is included in that.  So I don't object to clandestine lodges calling their members Masons but I don't have to acknowledge them as Masons.  I get there's all sorts of gray zone in there.  But eventually it comes down to whether I will ever try to pass their tiler.  And that's where the rubber meets the road because if there is no clear cut answer the meaning of Masonry gradually dissolves towards nothing.


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## Mosaic

tldubb said:


> True
> 
> 
> Freemason Connect Mobile



Bro Tldubb, it does matter as far as masonic conversation. Many irregular/clandestine/bogus groups perform ritual inconsistent with the norm, and speaking too deeply with them would reveal things that shouldn't be. 

As far as helping someone on the side of the road or in distress, my philosophy is we're humans before we're Masons.


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## tldubb

Mosaic said:


> Bro Tldubb, it does matter as far as masonic conversation. Many irregular/clandestine/bogus groups perform ritual inconsistent with the norm, and speaking too deeply with them would reveal things that shouldn't be.
> 
> As far as helping someone on the side of the road or in distress, my philosophy is we're humans before we're Masons.



I said nothing about Masonic intercourse or what you have stated "conversation". I wish some of us would do due diligence and look at the whole thread. If someone is in duress I would assist in aiding them. If the happen to be Main stream, PHA, or other I would assist them. Masonic intercourse is something totally different. Therefore, has nothing to do with what i have stated on this thread. God's Peace be upon you!   




Bro. TL Wilson,MM
Clarence C. Kittrell # 149(PHA)
MWPHGL Jurisdiction of PA
Philadelphia, PA
www.princehall-pa.org/


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