# Questioning My Decision to Become a Mason



## Hancock (Nov 23, 2018)

In less than a week I will be raised. I should be thrilled, but I'm not. What I have found at the lodge barely qualifies as a "Knife and Fork Lodge."



It's been over a year since I petitioned. It took 4 months to assign an investigation committee. None of my references were contacted. The interview took five minutes: "Do you believe in God?"-"Yes." "Got a check for the initiation fee?"- "Well, yes, but I thought we should get to know each other first." "No, just give me the check, and I'll sign your petition." Somehow, I thought it would be more comprehensive.



No mentor was assigned. I only had two phone numbers; one was always too busy to answer questions, and the other had no answers.



The rituals were unimpressive-they knew about half of the ritual, required many prompts, and spoke as if they knew the words, but not the meanings. The EA and FC proficiency exams were akin to an open book test where you were encouraged to copy from each other. There is no MM exam. We have 80 members in the lodge; maybe 15 ever attend.



I've asked about Masonic education in the lodge-short talks and reasearch papers- "We don't do that" is the answer. We eat, open, take care of business, close and go home. Other lodges in the area seem to be the same-I've asked. The person I went through the EA with showed up for initiation in cutoffs, tee shirt and no socks. The lodge was fine with this. He went through the degree wearing a shoe.



I could give more examples, but from what I've read, my experience is not uncommon; you probably know what I'm talking about.



I could really use some encouragement right about now.


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## Brother JC (Nov 23, 2018)

I can understand your frustration. My Mother Lodge didn’t fulfill my expectations so I visited another and discovered the Brethren that had literally been hidden from me. I still cherish that second lodge the most.
Stay strong, true Masonry is within you.


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## Bloke (Nov 23, 2018)

Hancock said:


> In less than a week I will be raised. I should be thrilled, but I'm not. What I have found at the lodge barely qualifies as a "Knife and Fork Lodge."
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I encourage you Brother. 

Your Lodge is *your* Lodge and they evolve through time and influence, both to strength and to weakness. Sounds like your Lodge is at an low ebb where  it might fail. 

I would definitely get your MM Degree then go visiting to see if you can find a better lodge or like minded men. One influential and inspirational member can transform a lodge, but unfortunately the influence takes time, and even when a man sits as Master, sometimes they will discover they cannot change the status quo. Sometimes it is just better to find a better environment. 

Also remember this - even students at the worse University excel, because they realise that need to take control of their own destiny and not reply on others.

Do your MM - then let's see if we cannot support you with some tools or resources to deepen your understanding of Freemasonry. I mainly did it on my own, but did have a great Proposer.. Did you have a Proposer or did you enter by another mechanism ?


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## Hancock (Nov 23, 2018)

Bloke said:


> Did you have a Proposer or did you enter by another mechanism ?



Yes, my proposer and I have known each other for years, and worked on the same team in disaster response.


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## Glen Cook (Nov 23, 2018)

What the other brothers said, and you may also find your place in the appendant bodies.


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## CLewey44 (Nov 23, 2018)

Glen Cook said:


> What the other brothers said, and you may also find your place in the appendant bodies.


This is unfortunately so. However, wouldn't it be grand if everything we dreamed Masonry would be was found right in our BLs?


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## CLewey44 (Nov 23, 2018)

Hancock said:


> In less than a week I will be raised. I should be thrilled, but I'm not. What I have found at the lodge barely qualifies as a "Knife and Fork Lodge."
> 
> It's been over a year since I petitioned. It took 4 months to assign an investigation committee. None of my references were contacted. The interview took five minutes: "Do you believe in God?"-"Yes." "Got a check for the initiation fee?"- "Well, yes, but I thought we should get to know each other first." "No, just give me the check, and I'll sign your petition." Somehow, I thought it would be more comprehensive.
> 
> ...



Knee Jerk Reaction: "Welcome" to North American Freemasonry (U.S. specifically)...Jerk Reaction: Oh suck it up, that' s how it has always been.... Real Reaction: I feel you completely and have almost identical experiences.... Proper Reaction: Brother, I encourage those that recognize this problem to please make the proper changes needed for the survival of our great fraternity.


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## David612 (Nov 23, 2018)

I don’t have an answer but that’s not, in my understanding what freemasonry should be-
All I can recommend is finding a more appropriate lodge-
It’s unrealistic to expect you to shoulder the weight of changing an entire lodge culture especially if it isn’t what the lodge wants nor would you as a soon to be raised mason know what changes are needed as you are inexperienced in all the politics and grand lodge blah blah that goes on.

All lives end and this is true of lodges aswell


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## David612 (Nov 24, 2018)

JamestheJust said:


> >What I have found at the lodge barely qualifies as a "Knife and Fork Lodge.
> 
> It seems that you will have to work to discover the real Freemasonry.   Have you started the work of the FC - investigation into the hidden mysteries of nature and science.  This work is open to all people of good will and you may need to look outside Masonry to get some assistance.



The above is good advice-


The real secrets of freemasonry are not unique too freemasonry.


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## Okla. MM (Nov 24, 2018)

I would definitely go ahead and be raised and then I would visit other lodges in your area to see if one meets your expectations of Masonry.


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## Winter (Nov 24, 2018)

Your experience is unfortunately not unique. But you should know that the Freemasonry you are experiencing is not how it is found everywhere. You have a few options before you and a tough decision to make.

1. You can decide that the Craft is not as advertised or that your Lodge is not what you want to be part of and that the best option for you is to just walk away. No shame. A lot of new Brothers take that path.  Just look at the number of new members that don't renew after their first year.

2. You can become just another warm body and dues paying member that doesn't take an active interest in their Lodge.

3. You can decide that the Order is important enough that you want to make a difference and try to revitalize your Lodge. Expect resistance and phrases like, "We've never done it that way", or "We've always done it this way", or "Nobody wants to do that."  And a host of many more reasons why any revitalization won't work. 

Best advice I can give, get into the line and become part of the group that makes the decisions.  Without a doubt I can tell you that you are not alone and there are other Brothers in your Lodge that you likely haven't met that would love for someone to take the lead with a new perspective.  Spend the time to become an expert in Masonic ritual and jurisprudence. Be the one that everyone goes to when they have questions.  Find 6 other Brothers that want to make a difference and make a degree team to make sure the experience new members have is better than yours.  Look into the Masonic Restoration Foundation and use any tools they may provide.  You have options.

I joined over 20 years in a small rural Lodge.  The Brothers are some of the finest men it has been my privilege to know.  But our ritual wasn't the greatest and our "Festive Board" was the usual boiled hotdogs on paper plates.  Masonic education wasn't much focused on and our annual fish fry was far better attended than our stated communications.  But I got into the line and spent that time learning every facet of every position on my way through until my time as WM.  I brought back Table Lodges for the Feasts of the Holy Saints John.  I worked to streamline the business of the tiled meetings so we could devote more time at each meeting to some form of Masonic education.  More education and study groups began forming and we attracted a younger membership.  I began associating with more and more like-minded Brothers who wanted the Craft we were promised and were willing to work to make it happen. And in 2006 was honored to be one of the 25 founding Brothers of Benjamin Franklin Lodge #83, a European Concept Lodge working in the Emulation Rite that is still going strong today and setting the example.

Brother Hancock, maybe now you see why I was questioning the usefulness of programs like MERT in the other thread.  We have enough work to do in our Craft Lodges to keep us busy for a long time.  Don't make more work for yourself.  So you decide what you want from Freemasonry and what you are willing to do for it.  You can leave the Craft.  You can run away to the appendant bodies like many Brothers and just be another name on the books that nobody sees.  You can sit on the sidelines and kibbitz without actually trying to change anything.  But maybe your perspective is just wrong.  Maybe the G.A.O.T.U. put your Lodge in front of you in the condition it is to give you the opportunity to rise to the challenge and show what you can do.


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## Pointwithinacircle3 (Nov 24, 2018)

Hancock said:


> I could really use some encouragement right about now.


Pay close attention during the lecture and they will tell you what a lodge is.


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## Martlet (Nov 24, 2018)

I view that as opportunity. 


Sent from my iPhone using My Freemasonry mobile app


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## goomba (Nov 24, 2018)

Sorry for your lackluster journey brother. I digress being acting online and reading.  If it wasn't for sites like this I would had stopped a long time ago.


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## CLewey44 (Nov 24, 2018)

goomba said:


> Sorry for your lackluster journey brother. I digress being acting online and reading.  If it wasn't for sites like this I would had stopped a long time ago.


It took me awhile to realize the same thing you just said.


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## Hancock (Nov 24, 2018)

Brothers,



I thank all of you for your advice. I will finish my MM in my current lodge, then search out a lodge where I can continue my education.



I chose my current lodge because of a promise I made to my wife. Her father was a member of the lodge, her mother was the WM in OES, and she belonged to Job's Daughters. She had fond memories of that lodge.



She passed away last year on my birthday, after a prolonged illness which left me no time to do anything but take care of her. This was known to the lodge after my initiation. Not one "brother" ever called to see how I was doing. Between my EA and FC I had a complete emotional meltdown-also known to the lodge. Again, not one person asked how I was doing. At this point I suspected that "brother" meant something different to them than it did to me.



I will not base my opinion on one lodge, you folks on this forum have shown me that not all Masons are the same-I thank you for that. My current lodge is half an hour away. There is a much larger lodge 5 minutes away. Perhaps what I am searching for was in my backyard all along. If not, that's what highways are for.



Some have suggested that I might try to reform my lodge, but I know I am not up to that task. That's like asking a soldier, fresh out of basic, to lead a company.



I miss my Army brothers, and I miss Texas.



Again, thank you.


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## David612 (Nov 24, 2018)

Martlet said:


> I view that as opportunity.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using My Freemasonry mobile app



Yeah, to leave and never look back.
Life’s to short to waste on lip service lodges.


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## David612 (Nov 24, 2018)

Unless of cause you joined the craft to get that sort of administrative experience of trying to reform a lodge, for me it’s not the hill I want to die on, forgive the familiarity but no flipping way-
I have had my own issues with my Masonic experience but I know that if I had hard times my brothers would offer relief, in fact they did, on several occasions- I never needed to accept it thankfully however the foundations are solid in that lodge.


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## CLewey44 (Nov 24, 2018)

Hancock said:


> Brothers,
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Brother Hancock, I am very sorry you had to experience, firstly, such a heartbreaking loss and secondly, such a weak showing of "brotherly love". I've witnessed similar situations. Not personally thank goodness but other brethren. Perhaps an 8th (and lost) art form added should be that of empathy. We may be the most seasoned, well spoken and well versed mason on the block with all the "light" in the world but then suddenly turn into a nine year old boy when it comes to facing grief with someone. That' s when you separate the men from the boys; when your brother is down and out, not always your memorization skills.


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## Bloke (Nov 25, 2018)

Hancock said:


> Brothers,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I am sorry for your loss Brother. 

I always say "Brother" is an easy title to get, but a very hard one to truly earn. 

Empathy, compassion and care for all people, especially Freemasons,  I believe and practice are critical to being a Freemason - our WM and myself (sec) recently dropped everything to travel and meet with a very distressed FC having a personal melt-down. I think we might have saved his life in meeting him and he was completely distraught and he is now in care working through his issues. The last Brother in my lodge with a terminally ill wife had people calling him and most of the lodge attended to him during the illness and supported at the funeral. I was there when he scattered her ashes. The last terminally ill member of the lodge had a 2 week vigil by lodge members at his bedside, starting at 7 am and the first person rostered on was 90. While your experience is sadly not unique, nor is it universal. After meeting the WM and the departure of our FC, I told our WM that we hear all sorted of amazing stories about Freemasons, and we just created another - that same brother recently wrote (by hand) to our WM and myself thanking us. I think that man will never forget what we did for him as Brother, and I always challenge the current generation to create new stories of the benevolence of Freemasons. All I can say is try to be the Freemason you should be, "_What you observe praise-worthy in others you should carefully imitate, and what in them may appear defective you should in yourself amend_. " Life can be a hard teacher - but I think in electing on your experience in the context of the line from our ritual I just quoted, perhaps there is a great lesson on how the culture of your lodge should be. Even if your lodge is incapable of that culture, I would encourage you to try to live that way, improving yourself as a man and treating those around you well being the two core ideas in Freemasonry.

I wish you well for your Third Degree. It will be close to home,  but it holds great lessons. Unlike many places in Nth America, where EAs and FCs seem often treated like some sort of probationary period before you become a MM, in our jurisdiction, you're a full member as an EA and we have a great duty to you. It sounds like your lodge members failed in their duty, but I challenge you not to fail in yours, no doubt looking after your wife you have already met one of the greatest trials you can and my heart goes out to you.


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## Martlet (Nov 25, 2018)

David612 said:


> Yeah, to leave and never look back.
> Life’s to short to waste on lip service lodges.



Not for me.  I prefer trying to make things better than when I found them.


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## David612 (Nov 25, 2018)

Martlet said:


> Not for me.  I prefer trying to make things better than when I found them.


Yeah it’s a nice idea but in practice if you get everyone just tying to change the lodge into what they want it to be you will just have a lot of infighting nonsense-
By the OPs report it sounds like he’s the odd man out-
It would be more pleaseing to align with brethren that share your focus.


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## Warrior1256 (Nov 25, 2018)

Brother JC said:


> My Mother Lodge didn’t fulfill my expectations so I visited another and discovered the Brethren that had literally been hidden from me. I still cherish that second lodge the most.





Bloke said:


> I would definitely get your MM Degree then go visiting to see if you can find a better lodge or like minded men.





Glen Cook said:


> you may also find your place in the appendant bodies.





David612 said:


> All I can recommend is finding a more appropriate lodge-





Okla. MM said:


> I would definitely go ahead and be raised and then I would visit other lodges in your area to see if one meets your expectations of Masonry.





Winter said:


> You can decide that the Order is important enough that you want to make a difference and try to revitalize your Lodge. Expect resistance and phrases like, "We've never done it that way", or "We've always done it this way", or "Nobody wants to do that." And a host of many more reasons why any revitalization won't work.
> 
> Best advice I can give, get into the line and become part of the group that makes the decisions.


Good advice!


goomba said:


> If it wasn't for sites like this I would had stopped a long time ago.


I, too, have learned A LOT on this site!


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## dfreybur (Nov 27, 2018)

Hancock said:


> What I have found at the lodge barely qualifies as a "Knife and Fork Lodge."



I have seen shriveling lodges saved by young blood. Be the change you seek.

There's something not obvious about the Masonic plan to make good men better. It's not even that we don't discuss how it happens nor that many of us have no idea how it happens. It's that it's up to each one of us. Individual initiative.



> I've asked about Masonic education in the lodge-short talks and reasearch papers- "We don't do that" is the answer.



YOU do that starting now. Start by reading the work of others. Move on to presenting your own thoughts.

A lot of Brothers are here for the fellowship. They become old friends but in time become clicks. It happens and many don't learn to resist it. Being a knife and fork lodge is exactly what they want. These are the men who keep the lights on for whoever shows up and starts doing activities. Every tempt is made with walls and every wall must be made of blocks. These Brothers are those blocks.

If you want your living stone to be a part of the lodge's ornamentation, be that.


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## Warrior1256 (Nov 27, 2018)

Hancock said:


> We don't do that" is the answer.


When I became Master of my home lodge I instituted some changes at opening and closing. One of the old guard told me "We don't do it that way here". My reply? "We do for the next 12 months".


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## David612 (Nov 27, 2018)

I think it’s worth spending some time observing how things operate in the craft-
In my area for example you have the opportunity to become involved in the board of the temple, involved with the lodge management committee, investigation committees, building committees, masonicare officer and so on however, let’s be real, that’s not freemasonry- it is required for freemasonry to continue and it could be argued that learning administrative skills is making men better but your local school can do that and get you a recognised accreditation too.
You need to figure out what YOU want from the craft and persue that actively- you will hopefully find brethren who share your interest and expand your circle.


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## Bloke (Nov 27, 2018)

Warrior1256 said:


> When I became Master of my home lodge I instituted some changes at opening and closing. One of the old guard told me "We don't do it that way here". My reply? "We do for the next 12 months".


Exactly. As long as a WM is not trying to bring strippers in, what he says goes. As a member of the "old guard" and a PM, that has usually served us well.... it has lead us down some not-so-great ideas - like a WM talking about education without actually doing it.. but I am a big believer of electing decent WMs and then let them be a WM.... it is why, as Sec, I call them "boss".... mind you I've deal with decisive ones, but never a bossy or a WM who tried to micromanage me... but it will happen... then I will come back and read this post


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## Warrior1256 (Nov 27, 2018)

Bloke said:


> it is why, as Sec, I call them "boss".... mind you I've deal with decisive ones, but never a bossy or a WM who tried to micromanage me... but it will happen... then I will come back and read this post


Many thanks to you and all lodge Secretaries! I have always said that a lodge can survive a bad Master as long as they have a good Secretary!


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## Bill Lins (Nov 27, 2018)

Bloke said:


> As long as a WM is not trying to bring strippers in, what he says goes.


Had to go there, didn't you...  ;-)


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## CLewey44 (Nov 28, 2018)

Bill Lins said:


> Had to go there, didn't you...  ;-)  View attachment 6380


Looks like the SW has some explaining to do.


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## Glen Cook (Nov 28, 2018)

Bloke said:


> Exactly. As long as a WM is not trying to bring strippers in....


Ya know, they want better meetings and then they complain. You guys.


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## Bill Lins (Nov 28, 2018)

CLewey44 said:


> Looks like the SW has some explaining to do.


He vouched for her!


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## Warrior1256 (Nov 29, 2018)

Glen Cook said:


> Ya know, they want better meetings and then they complain. You guys.


***snicker snicker***


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## CLewey44 (Nov 29, 2018)

This may be a scenario where a woman would be allowed to be present during a stated. There are exceptions to every rule...


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## Keith C (Nov 29, 2018)

CLewey44 said:


> This may be a scenario where a woman would be allowed to be present during a stated. There are exceptions to every rule...



You could easily have a woman do a presentation before opening the Lodge, we have had many presentations by non-Masons in this way.  You just have to get the program done first, then open the Lodge and do the business that can only be done in a Tyled Lodge.


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## CLewey44 (Nov 29, 2018)

Keith C said:


> You could easily have a woman do a presentation before opening the Lodge, we have had many presentations by non-Masons in this way.  You just have to get the program done first, then open the Lodge and do the business that can only be done in a Tyled Lodge.


Thats true too.


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## Warrior1256 (Nov 29, 2018)

Keith C said:


> You could easily have a woman do a presentation before opening the Lodge, we have had many presentations by non-Masons in this way. You just have to get the program done first, then open the Lodge and do the business that can only be done in a Tyled Lodge.


Done the same way here.


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## Bloke (Nov 30, 2018)

CLewey44 said:


> This may be a scenario where a woman would be allowed to be present during a stated. There are exceptions to every rule...


We do something here called "an open investiture" where non-freemasons come into the lodge and see the investiture of all officers (except the WM which a MM cannot see because it is done in an Installed Board) where the words are unchanged and only signs omitted; my sisters and partner have been in the lodge to see this.... but we close it before they are admitted.


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## Warrior1256 (Nov 30, 2018)

Bloke said:


> We do something here called "an open investiture" where non-freemasons come into the lodge and see the investiture of all officers (except the WM which a MM cannot see because it is done in an Installed Board) where the words are unchanged and only signs omitted;


This is the way that officer installations are done in my jurisdiction, including WM, so that family members can attend.


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## dfreybur (Nov 30, 2018)

Keith C said:


> You could easily have a woman do a presentation before opening the Lodge, we have had many presentations by non-Masons in this way.  You just have to get the program done first, then open the Lodge and do the business that can only be done in a Tyled Lodge.



There is also a system called the "Stated meeting dinner". The lodge is opened. The lodge is called from labor to refreshment. There is a dinner (refreshment) that is usually in the dining room but that can be in the lodge room. The lodge room is purged of non-masons. The lodge is called from refreshment to labor. The business resumes. In the case of an actual Stated meeting dinner the wives have a program of their own during the business.

The last time I attended a blue lodge that used this process I lived in Seattle metro. It's my understanding that there are entire states were the process is not even taught as an option. But every ritual I've learned had calling from labor to refreshment and back as an option. Here is Texas the only group I know that does this is my Shrine. My wife loves being at the wives' programs during the Shrine stated meeting as she remembers them from when we lived in Seattle metro.

In my Illinois blue lodges I've been to presentations from members of the Masonic Homes board. The lodge used the process so she could give us her presentation while at refreshment from a Stated meeting. There's no need to do the presentation *before* the meeting. You just need to know the ritual to call from labor to refreshment and back, and to know this is one of the reasons we have that feature in our ritual options.

I also remember calling from labor to refreshment for one of the youth orders to come in to demonstrate a living cross ceremony with each of the girls reciting ritual as she took her place in the formation. I don't remember which of the two orders it was but I do remember it being a wonderful bit of lecture ritual combined with floor work ritual. Then they left and we called from refreshment to labor to resume the business.


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## Brother JC (Dec 1, 2018)

In one of my Lodges the partners went out together while we were in lodge, then we’d meet them after for a pint or tea and some conversation.
We also brought non-mason speakers in during refreshment, and had open installations with the other lodge in the building. It was after witnessing an installation that I asked for a petition.


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## jermy Bell (Dec 2, 2018)

Bill Lins said:


> Had to go there, didn't you...  ;-)  View attachment 6380


I want one. Where do you find one ?


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## Bill Lins (Dec 2, 2018)

jermy Bell said:


> I want one. Where do you find one ?


Dunno- somebody sent me the photo years ago.


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## Keith C (Dec 3, 2018)

dfreybur said:


> There is also a system called the "Stated meeting dinner". The lodge is opened. The lodge is called from labor to refreshment. There is a dinner (refreshment) that is usually in the dining room but that can be in the lodge room. The lodge room is purged of non-masons. The lodge is called from refreshment to labor. The business resumes. In the case of an actual Stated meeting dinner the wives have a program of their own during the business.
> 
> The last time I attended a blue lodge that used this process I lived in Seattle metro. It's my understanding that there are entire states were the process is not even taught as an option. But every ritual I've learned had calling from labor to refreshment and back as an option. Here is Texas the only group I know that does this is my Shrine. My wife loves being at the wives' programs during the Shrine stated meeting as she remembers them from when we lived in Seattle metro.
> 
> ...



We do have that option here as well.  It is just the majority opinion that that takes longer and requires more herding  of cats to make it work!


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## jermy Bell (Dec 3, 2018)

Bill Lins said:


> Dunno- somebody sent me the photo years ago.


I found one. On eBay $12.99 item #1518584716518


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## Rifleman1776 (Dec 11, 2018)

Hancock said:


> Brothers,
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Very sorry for your loss and sorry experiences with your lodge. Your reply indicates you have the right attitude. Like others have said, I recommend you finish your MM then visit other lodges and let time determine what you do with regards to Masonry in the future. Lodges vary, some considerably. The Lodge I was raised in, more than 35 years ago, has a widespread reputation as the unfriendliest many have ever seen. The small, rural Lodge I now belong to epitomizes what Masonic Brotherhood really means.


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## ERHansen (Dec 11, 2018)

I'm going to pose a potentially unpopular opinion: if you don't find fulfillment in your lodge involvement, perhaps you can supplement it by getting involved with the youth groups in your area or even in Eastern Star/Amaranth. Some of the best Masons I know (or knew) were advisors to both DeMolay and one of the girl's groups in NY--Triangle. Masons make good men better? How about the nobility in the task of making young people better?

Don't get me wrong....a good many folks are still involved in their lodges and chapters. But those who get involved in the youth groups and serve them well and for the right reasons (I'm not talking about the power hungry title hoarders or control freaks)....it seems to fill a void. I'm not a Mason, nor do I want to be one (though I do find that thread to be fascinating...) so I imagine only other Masons could say what said void is.


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## Warrior1256 (Dec 11, 2018)

ERHansen said:


> f you don't find fulfillment in your lodge involvement, perhaps you can supplement it by getting involved with the youth groups in your area





ERHansen said:


> Some of the best Masons I know (or knew) were advisors to both DeMolay and one of the girl's group in NY--Triangle. Masons make good men better? How about the nobility in the task of making young people better?


Excellent advice!


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## Bro Book (Dec 11, 2018)

CLewey44 said:


> This is unfortunately so. However, wouldn't it be grand if everything we dreamed Masonry would be was found right in our BLs?


Let's work toward that goal, I tell my Craft all the time i just want to do MASONRY !!!

Sent from my RCT6973W43 using My Freemasonry mobile app


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