# Do you stay for the meal?



## David612 (Dec 22, 2017)

Just curious how many of you stick around for the meal afterwards, personally I will if there is someone specific I want to speak with but as we get out late I generally leave early after thanking the WM for allowing me to visit


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## goomba (Dec 22, 2017)

The lodges I've belonged to have all had their meal before the meeting.  I'd say at least 75% of the time I attend.


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## David612 (Dec 22, 2017)

goomba said:


> The lodges I've belonged to have all had their meal before the meeting.  I'd say at least 75% of the time I attend.


I don’t get how that works, my lodge just celebrated the 90th anniversary and we where doing dishes and cleaning for about an hour and a half afterwards.


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## Thomas Stright (Dec 22, 2017)

Ours is before as well. The Stewards do the kitchen work, sometimes with help from their wives.


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## Warrior1256 (Dec 22, 2017)

goomba said:


> The lodges I've belonged to have all had their meal before the meeting.





Thomas Stright said:


> Ours is before as well.


Same here.


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## Brother_Steve (Dec 22, 2017)

David612 said:


> I don’t get how that works, my lodge just celebrated the 90th anniversary and we where doing dishes and cleaning for about an hour and a half afterwards.


Meal is before the meeting.

Dinner at 6:30. Opening at 7:30.
The stewards stay down to clean up and come upstairs later in the evening. Usually, they just miss the opening which some say is not a big deal. To me, it is. You have the potential of having two full years of observing what you're going to be doing if you choose to advance.

Anyhow, not to get sidetracked...We must open on the MM and do all business that requires us to be on the MM degree. We drop down to whatever degree we must to accommodate everyone once that is done. That means, as Junior Warden, I'm going to get the EAs and FCs to get their butts in the kitchen and help get done what needs to get done so the line officers can be upstairs.

Also, those of us that stay afterwards help clean up the collation room.


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## Elexir (Dec 22, 2017)

Most of the time unless its to late or I have something special the next day.

Dinner is always after the lodge.
We cater our food so they take care of the dishes etc.


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## Brother_Steve (Dec 22, 2017)

Elexir said:


> Most of the time unless its to late or I have something special the next day.
> 
> Dinner is always after the lodge.
> We cater our food so they take care of the dishes etc.


Do you mind me asking how much of a dues increase it is to cater or do the Brethren pay out of pocket per meal with the Lodge making up any shortage?


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## dfreybur (Dec 22, 2017)

For my lodges, two have the meal before, two have the meal after the meeting.  In each there are members who attend the first part then leave.

One lodge (GLof WA) I affiliated with for a couple of years had a "Stated meeting dinner".  Officers opened lodge then called to refreshment.  Meal was served.  Members went to meeting, while in parallel the ladies had a program.  Then all gathered for clean up and coffee.  I think there are entire states where no lodge uses this system as I've seen Brothers who never heard the term before.  This system literally has the dinner during the meeting but not in the same room.

At least two of my lodges do annual Table Lodge.  Both involve the entire district.  Table Lodge has the meal served in the tiled meeting room with toasts and/or talks.  It's the founding ritual of Grand Lodge Masonry.


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## Elexir (Dec 22, 2017)

Brother_Steve said:


> Do you mind me asking how much of a dues increase it is to cater or do the Brethren pay out of pocket per meal with the Lodge making up any shortage, if any be due?



We pay for each meal out of our pocket with the lodge paying a bit to keep prices down. If a brother is short on cash on some ocasion it can be taken care of. The current cater charges a little more then the old did so maybe dues will increse.


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## Glen Cook (Dec 22, 2017)

David612 said:


> Just curious how many of you stick around for the meal afterwards, personally I will if there is someone specific I want to speak with but as we get out late I generally leave early after thanking the WM for allowing me to visit


You are missing out on an important part of the Masonic experience. The meal and the bar afterwards (though I don’t imbibe) have the places where I’ve developed friendships, learned, and had terrific conversations.


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## Keith C (Dec 22, 2017)

For Stated meetings the meal is before Lodge.  It is generally catered  by a group of ladies from a brother's church, we get great PA Dutch food inexpensively (typically $10pp) and they make a little money for their mission projects.  Some of the best interactions with other brothers takes place at the meal before lodge if you want it to.  I try to sit with some different group of brothers for each meal, as it can seem a bit "cliquey" since most tend to sit with the same people every meal.

For extra meetings the meal is after the degree and is prepared by a brother, under the direction of the JW.  That is the JW is responsible for assuring their is a meal, but he can have Stewards do it, have it catered, get take out, etc.  We don't charge for this as we consider the meals for degrees as part of the initiation fee.

If you knew me well, you would know that I never miss a meal!


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## JanneProeliator (Dec 22, 2017)

In my short experience the meal is essential part of the meeting. That is the part where I get to know my brether better and socialise with them. I would never miss the meal if I don't have more important things to do that night. And why would I...


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## David612 (Dec 22, 2017)

For me our meeting dosent finish until 10:00 to then eat, get home and I won’t be in bed untill 1am which would be fine but I’m up again at 5am for work the following day. Sorry but not happening.

I get togeather with my brothers outside of lodge but we normally grab a few drinks before meetings and I catchup with individual brothers for coffee during the week to get to know them better, those meetings are invaluable and are at a time where we both are in no rush.


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## Canadian Paul (Dec 22, 2017)

My lodge tried a dinner before each meeting but that didn't work out so we reverted to 'light refreshments' (sandwiches, cookies, tea/coffee and an open bar) after the meeting. That works much better as almost all brethren stay for at least a short while and stand around and chat while eating. our District Grand Lodge has a 'pot luck' supper before each Quarterly Communication. Many of the wives are also present and have their own 'DGL Ladies' meeting during our meeting.


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## hanzosbm (Dec 22, 2017)

Our lodge is small so doing a full dinner proves difficult.  We used to all meet up at a restaurant down the street before the meeting for dinner, but due to disagreements on the venue, that has fallen apart.  We always have wine and snacks (usually a meat and cheese platter) after the meeting and during the presentation.


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## David612 (Dec 22, 2017)

hanzosbm said:


> Our lodge is small so doing a full dinner proves difficult.  We used to all meet up at a restaurant down the street before the meeting for dinner, but due to disagreements on the venue, that has fallen apart.  We always have wine and snacks (usually a meat and cheese platter) after the meeting and during the presentation.


Personally I see that as a Plus for you, personally I’d be happy enough to do away with the meal altogether in favor of using the time and energy for work and in lodge discussions.


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## Warrior1256 (Dec 22, 2017)

JanneProeliator said:


> In my short experience the meal is essential part of the meeting. That is the part where I get to know my brether better and socialise with them.


Same here.


hanzosbm said:


> Our lodge is small so doing a full dinner proves difficult.


Our lodge is also small but the only time that we do a full meal is at a special occasion such as an installation and this is catered. For a regular meeting we bring something simple...a pot of soup, beans, chilli, etc. When it is my turn to bring the refreshments I bring cold cuts, bread, cheese and fixings and we have sandwiches with cookies for desert and a couple of bottles of cheap soda pop.


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## Symthrell (Dec 22, 2017)

We have the meal before the lodge meeting. So 6:30 PM dinner and 7:30 PM the meeting starts. Paper plates are used so clean up is kept to a minimum. The Stewards have time to start clean up and finish after the meeting is over. The best time to socialize is at dinner before the meeting. 
As for drinks after or before, Georgia GL does not allow drinking in the lodge!


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## David612 (Dec 22, 2017)

Symthrell said:


> We have the meal before the lodge meeting. So 6:30 PM dinner and 7:30 PM the meeting starts. Paper plates are used so clean up is kept to a minimum. The Stewards have time to start clean up and finish after the meeting is over. The best time to socialize is at dinner before the meeting.
> As for drinks after or before, Georgia GL does not allow drinking in the lodge!


Haha we enjoy whiskey at lodge regularly  amazing that in the US hand guns in lodge is a discussion but alcohol is just a big no-no


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## Glen Cook (Dec 22, 2017)

At what time do you tyle?


David612 said:


> For me our meeting dosent finish until 10:00 to then eat, get home and I won’t be in bed untill 1am which would be fine but I’m up again at 5am for work the following day. Sorry but not happening.
> 
> I get togeather with my brothers outside of lodge but we normally grab a few drinks before meetings and I catchup with individual brothers for coffee during the week to get to know them better, those meetings are invaluable and are at a time where we both are in no rush.


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## David612 (Dec 22, 2017)

Glen Cook said:


> What time do you tyle?
> 
> at


7, keep in mind in Aus we open in the 1st and my lodge has actual work booked untill mid next year, plus we have rural lodges help when we have too much work, I’ll be doing my second at a nearby historic country lodge


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## Glen Cook (Dec 22, 2017)

David612 said:


> 7, keep in mind in Aus we open in the 1st and my lodge has actual work booked untill mid next year, plus we have rural lodges help when we have too much work, I’ll be doing my second at a nearby historic country lodge


And you don’t finish until 10?  You need to talk faster.


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## hanzosbm (Dec 22, 2017)

Glen Cook said:


> And you don’t finish until 10?  You need to talk faster.


Agreed.  One of the things I like the most about my current lodge is that we regularly conduct our meetings in about 20 minutes. I think our record is around 18, and considering that it's a very large lodge room and the CA opening and closing has a bit of floor work, that's FAST.


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## David612 (Dec 22, 2017)

Glen Cook said:


> And you don’t finish until 10?  You need to talk faster.


They might take offence if I surgest this. Typically a business meeting, admitting visitors then a degree or lecture then you don’t have a lot of change from 3 hours, occasionally it’s faster but not commonly.


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## Warrior1256 (Dec 22, 2017)

David612 said:


> amazing that in the US hand guns in lodge is a discussion but alcohol is just a big no-no


Yep, the former most especially in southern lodges.


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## goomba (Dec 22, 2017)

David612 said:


> I don’t get how that works, my lodge just celebrated the 90th anniversary and we where doing dishes and cleaning for about an hour and a half afterwards.



Disposable dishes.  If needed a few of us stay after the meeting to finish cleaning.


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## billyjfootball (Dec 22, 2017)

Our meals are always after meetings and degrees.  We are expected (that may be too strong a word) to leave a small donation (dollar or two).  Our Stewards make/heat up food downstairs.  The food is not anything extravagant; it ranges from hot dogs, hamburgers, sausage hoagies, ziti, etc.  we have a family night dinner once a year which is catered by a local restaurant.  Most choose to stay and eat.  


Sent from my iPhone using My Freemasonry


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## MarkR (Dec 23, 2017)

David612 said:


> Haha we enjoy whiskey at lodge regularly  amazing that in the US hand guns in lodge is a discussion but alcohol is just a big no-no


That varies by state.  Alcohol is okay in Minnesota anywhere except in the actual lodge room.

We have dinner beforehand.  No way I want to wait until 9-9:30 to have dinner.  Then after lodge it's snacks and beverages downstairs.


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## Warrior1256 (Dec 23, 2017)

goomba said:


> Disposable dishes.


Exactly, same way here.


MarkR said:


> We have dinner beforehand. No way I want to wait until 9-9:30 to have dinner.


I with you Brother.


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## jrnteach (Dec 23, 2017)

My Lodge has dinner before the meeting. Our junior warden and his family typically prepare the meal and our various youth like DeMolay and Jobs Daughters assist. For us, the dinner is not only a time to socialize but also to learn what is going on in the life of our Masonic family. We hear about the various appendant organizations, who is in need of help, etc.  stated dinner is important in the life of our Lodge. Some of the brethren (especially our older members) come for dinner but don’t stay for the stated meeting.


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## Warrior1256 (Dec 23, 2017)

jrnteach said:


> My Lodge has dinner before the meeting. Our junior warden and his family typically prepare the meal and our various youth like DeMolay and Jobs Daughters assist. For us, the dinner is not only a time to socialize but also to learn what is going on in the life of our Masonic family. We hear about the various appendant organizations, who is in need of help, etc. stated dinner is important in the life of our Lodge.


EXACTLY why we have meals in our lodges.


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## jermy Bell (Dec 23, 2017)

Elexir said:


> We pay for each meal out of our pocket with the lodge paying a bit to keep prices down. If a brother is short on cash on some ocasion it can be taken care of. The current cater charges a little more then the old did so maybe dues will increse.


That' nice and all, but


Elexir said:


> We pay for each meal out of our pocket with the lodge paying a bit to keep prices down. If a brother is short on cash on some ocasion it can be taken care of. The current cater charges a little more then the old did so maybe dues will increse.


My lodge tried that, and a ot of brothers would just skip dinner. So it' a donation thing. Don' know why either because we put back money for these things.


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## Glen Cook (Dec 23, 2017)

jermy Bell said:


> That' nice and all, but
> 
> My lodge tried that, and a ot of brothers would just skip dinner. So it' a donation thing. Don' know why either because we put back money for these things.



My Cheshire Chapter has the meal and the subs all as one. You don’t come. You don’t eat. You still pay.


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## Warrior1256 (Dec 23, 2017)

Glen Cook said:


> My Cheshire Chapter has the meal and the subs all as one. You don’t come. You don’t eat. You still pay.


Lol....Nice.


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## David612 (Dec 23, 2017)

I have heard the argument from many that disposable dishes and basic meals are one of the reasons they skip the meal, I mean in generations gone it was linnen table cloths and fine bone china plates, dining was an experience.
My lodge still use our lodge plates and linnen table cloths but food is very basic of cause to keep costs down.


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## Go49ersuk (Dec 23, 2017)

The lodges in my Province Devonshire UK have the festive board after the meeting in the Temple, my particular Lodge Sun 106 tyle at 6:30pm and generally have the meal booked for 8:15pm the bar generally opens at around 5:30pm. The cost of the 3 course meal is around $17.50 and a bottle of wine ranges from $12 to $15. The festive board is a time for socialising and making money for charity we have a whisky draw and a bottle raffle every meeting. After the meal we have various toasts and partake of Masonic fire, this time of year we have carols after the meal. I Personally feel the festive board plays an important part of the Lodge experience. Lodges with a good festive board tend to be larger so a good festive board can lead to joining members. Our stewards used to wait table but now they only serve wine and sell draw tickets not a move I was wholly supportive of.


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## Brother_Steve (Dec 23, 2017)

Glen Cook said:


> My Cheshire Chapter has the meal and the subs all as one. You don’t come. You don’t eat. You still pay.


I wanted to do a program based on the following:

We have roughly 16 meetings a year. Our dinners are 6 dollars which is 96 dollars for the year. I wanted to suggest that if you front load 80 dollars, your meals for the year are paid. If you don't show up, it's your loss.

I wanted to do same for fundraisers, but that gets complicated.


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## Elexir (Dec 23, 2017)

M


jermy Bell said:


> That' nice and all, but
> 
> My lodge tried that, and a ot of brothers would just skip dinner. So it' a donation thing. Don' know why either because we put back money for these things.



Could be that since its a change some people just dont feel right about it.

I think the main reason it works here is that people are used to it, its a good place to get change if nothing else. Besides if the lodge had to pay the full cost of a meal, dues would have to be raised dramaticly.


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## jermy Bell (Dec 23, 2017)

It sounds like it's more of a hassle than anything. Then why not just skip dinner, and start the meeting / degree early then leave. The other thing I have seen is masonry is getting to expensive to do anything.


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## Brother_Steve (Dec 23, 2017)

jermy Bell said:


> It sounds like it's more of a hassle than anything. Then why not just skip dinner, and start the meeting / degree early then leave. The other thing I have seen is masonry is getting to expensive to do anything.


 we have nice dinners and expect a 6 dollar donation. The dinner is cooked in site by the stewards. We usually break even. Sometimes we even have a surplus.

Besides, dinner is half the fun!


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## Ripcord22A (Dec 23, 2017)

My NM lodge used to have Dues include the meal... $240...120 for dues 120 for meals....GL recently put a stop to that. Said meal cost couldn't be included in Dues.   Every meal is serve your self type catered.

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## Warrior1256 (Dec 24, 2017)

jermy Bell said:


> It sounds like it's more of a hassle than anything. Then why not just skip dinner, and start the meeting / degree early then leave.


For the following reason.


jrnteach said:


> For us, the dinner is not only a time to socialize but also to learn what is going on in the life of our Masonic family. We hear about the various appendant organizations, who is in need of help, etc. stated dinner is important in the life of our Lodge.


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## Scoops (Dec 24, 2017)

We pay separately for the festive board after our meetings which is about £16 for a three course meal. The hall where we meet has a professionally run kitchen with waiting staff (I'm sure Bro. Glen knows Christleton well!) I find the festive board is a vital part of my masonry. A time for fellowship.

Much like Glen's chapter, the Mark Lodge I'm joining include the price of the meal in the dues. If you don't attend, you've still paid and this helps to keep the dues for everyone down.

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## Warrior1256 (Dec 24, 2017)

Scoops said:


> Much like Glen's chapter, the Mark Lodge I'm joining include the price of the meal in the dues. If you don't attend, you've still paid and this helps to keep the dues for everyone down.


Nice.


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## goomba (Dec 25, 2017)

Ripcord22A said:


> My NM lodge used to have Dues include the meal... $240...120 for dues 120 for meals....GL recently put a stop to that. Said meal cost couldn't be included in Dues.   Every meal is serve your self type catered.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G386T using My Freemasonry mobile app



That seems insane.  This basically means you cannot set your dues based on the lodges operating cost.  So now just say dues are X and we cannot give a reason because grand lodge has rules.  What was the cause of the new rule?


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## Brother_Steve (Dec 25, 2017)

goomba said:


> That seems insane.  This basically means you cannot set your dues based on the lodges operating cost.  So now just say dues are X and we cannot give a reason because grand lodge has rules.  What was the cause of the new rule?



My speculation...

A building requires insurance, utilities, etc. A building does not have to eat. I'm betting someone complained about having to pay for non-essential costs and won.

The problem with my theory is that it most likely bypassed the master and the complainer went right to the district or Grand Lodge level.


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## dfreybur (Dec 26, 2017)

Brother_Steve said:


> A building requires insurance, utilities, etc. A building does not have to eat. I'm betting someone complained about having to pay for non-essential costs and won.



I suggest this is about the internal not the external qualifications.  At lodge there are Brothers who have to save up to afford the annual dues.  At times I can only guess who they are other than the fact that I don't see them at events that cost extra money.  Our reputation for being expensive may keep poor men from petitioning but there's no way I want a dues system that pushes poor members out.  It's a puzzle with the Traditional Observance system that I have not yet pondered.


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## Warrior1256 (Dec 26, 2017)

dfreybur said:


> At lodge there are Brothers who have to save up to afford the annual dues. At times I can only guess who they are other than the fact that I don't see them at events that cost extra money.


I am one who somewhat fits this description. While we are not poor my wife and I are both retired and living on a fixed income. As I belong to a number of Masonic organizations I must pick and choose what activities I participate in that costs extra money.


dfreybur said:


> there's no way I want a dues system that pushes poor members out.


Agreed.


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## dpk Shah (Dec 26, 2017)

At my Lodge's festive board, food is generally brought by everyone. There is a $2 for a ticket or $5 for 3 tickets which goes towards raffle prizes. I work night shifts and festive boards generally start from 9ish so most of time I can't stay when visiting other lodges.


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## Ripcord22A (Dec 26, 2017)

goomba said:


> That seems insane.  This basically means you cannot set your dues based on the lodges operating cost.  So now just say dues are X and we cannot give a reason because grand lodge has rules.  What was the cause of the new rule?



So you can...the thing is apparently GL has always had a rule that meals can’t be included in the cost of dues.  There has also been an understanding in my lodge that you can speak to the WM and work something out.  Like me, since I am in the Army they only charged me the out of state dues of 78$ but I paid for individual meals.  We could set dues to 1000$ if we wanted but it just couldn’t include the cost of meals.....as I’m writing this I wonder why when we rewrote our bylaws to fix this we didn’t just take out the part about meals....


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## hanzosbm (Dec 27, 2017)

Ripcord22A said:


> So you can...the thing is apparently GL has always had a rule that meals can’t be included in the cost of dues.  There has also been an understanding in my lodge that you can speak to the WM and work something out.  Like me, since I am in the Army they only charged me the out of state dues of 78$ but I paid for individual meals.  We could set dues to 1000$ if we wanted but it just couldn’t include the cost of meals.....as I’m writing this I wonder why when we rewrote our bylaws to fix this we didn’t just take out the part about meals....


I'm no fan of Grand Lodge, and generally don't like them getting involved in much of anything, so take this with a grain of salt, but could the lodge do something where they don't itemize it?  Basically, our dues are $240 per year, period.  Oh, and by the way, as a courtesy, all our meals are free.
In my college fraternity (which, by the way, the dues were always more than Freemasonry's, which blows my mind when brother complain about expensive dues) we couldn't sell alcohol at our parties (no liquor license).  So we always just charged a large cover for the party, and then 'gave away' the beer inside.  Seems like a similar idea would work here.


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## Thomas Stright (Dec 27, 2017)

Brother_Steve said:


> We must open on the MM and do all business that requires us to be on the MM degree. We drop down to whatever degree we must to accommodate everyone once that is done. That means, as Junior Warden, I'm going to get the EAs and FCs to get their butts in the kitchen and help get done what needs to get done so the line officers can be upstairs.



We open on the first tuesday in a MM and the second tuesday in an EA, Business can be conducted in any degree.
There is no requirement for EA or FC to help in the kitchen unless they want to.



David612 said:


> Haha we enjoy whiskey at lodge regularly  amazing that in the US hand guns in lodge is a discussion but alcohol is just a big no-no



I've never lost my ability to make clear and concise decisions when carrying a sidearm, Wish I can say the same when drinking.
And most I know here in Texas are armed if they have pants on.


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## Warrior1256 (Dec 27, 2017)

hanzosbm said:


> but could the lodge do something where they don't itemize it?


The way we do it in my mother lodge is three of us take turns bringing some type of simple refreshment.


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## David612 (Dec 27, 2017)

I’m not 100% but I think our meals are officially paid for, we chip in some cash $5 or so and that money goes to the relief/charity fund as does the $2 for the “honest” raffle.


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## MarkR (Dec 28, 2017)

hanzosbm said:


> ...In my college fraternity (which, by the way, the dues were always more than Freemasonry's, which blows my mind when brother complain about expensive dues) we couldn't sell alcohol at our parties (no liquor license).  So we always just charged a large cover for the party, and then 'gave away' the beer inside.  Seems like a similar idea would work here.


Yeah, I don't know about where you were, but I was a cop for 25 years.  That "clever" ruse didn't fly where I worked.  We'd still bust you for lacking a liquor license, and judges never believed "the beer was free" nonsense.  If you charged to get in, you needed a license.


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## Warrior1256 (Dec 28, 2017)

MarkR said:


> Yeah, I don't know about where you were, but I was a cop for 25 years. That "clever" ruse didn't fly where I worked. We'd still bust you for lacking a liquor license,


Lol....and then I would get them. I was a correctional officer for 29 years.


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## dfreybur (Dec 28, 2017)

MarkR said:


> Yeah, I don't know about where you were, but I was a cop for 25 years.  That "clever" ruse didn't fly where I worked.  We'd still bust you for lacking a liquor license, and judges never believed "the beer was free" nonsense.  If you charged to get in, you needed a license.



The system, or something like it, is legal in California.  Alcohol laws vary widely by state.  In the California case I think the difference is it has to be at a meal not at a party without food.

My mother lodge has a family dinner on the second Tuesday of every month.  There's a charge to have the meal with invited guests who are considering a petition comped.  There's a table with beer and wine.  There's a box for donations but no listed price.  It's allowed in California but not all states.  In California it's against Masonic bylaws for a lodge to own alcohol, so the supplies involved are handed down to the Junior Warden very year.

Guys tend to pay for sodas, even though the lodge has a budget for those.  The money makes sure the been and wine stay well stocked.  Not much is consumed so there's extra money each year that gets donated to the Masonic Homes.


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## Warrior1256 (Dec 28, 2017)

dfreybur said:


> There's a table with beer and wine. There's a box for donations but no listed price. It's allowed in California but not all states. In California it's against Masonic bylaws for a lodge to own alcohol, so the supplies involved are handed down to the Junior Warden very year.


Alcohol in the lodge or dining hall is not allowed in Kentucky. I think that this is unfortunate as we are grown men and should be allowed to have a beer, or drink, or two before or after the meeting. JMHO.


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## Brother_Steve (Dec 28, 2017)

tolerance ... to be used in such a manner only when appropriate!


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## Warrior1256 (Dec 28, 2017)

Brother_Steve said:


> tolerance ... to be used in such a manner only when appropriate!


Agreed!


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## hanzosbm (Dec 28, 2017)

MarkR said:


> Yeah, I don't know about where you were, but I was a cop for 25 years.  That "clever" ruse didn't fly where I worked.  We'd still bust you for lacking a liquor license, and judges never believed "the beer was free" nonsense.  If you charged to get in, you needed a license.


California.  Never had a problem with it.


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## hanzosbm (Dec 28, 2017)

Warrior1256 said:


> Alcohol in the lodge or dining hall is not allowed in Kentucky. I think that this is unfortunate as we are grown men and should be allowed to have a beer, or drink, or two before or after the meeting. JMHO.


Yes, many of my brothers lamented that fact in Kentucky, as did I.

As brother dfreybur mentioned, there are ways around it here in California.  More especially, we rent a room in the Scottish Rite building here (there are quite a few lodge rooms and banquet halls within the building).  The layout basically has a central lobby at the end of which is a large set of double doors.  Inside that is a room about 40'x40' with a few large tables and chairs set up.  Off that room is the door to the lodge.  So, we literally close the lodge, walk out the door and sit down.  Since the Scottish Rite doesn't have such prohibitions, and we're no longer in the lodge room, we're good.  We rotate each month for which brother will bring the wine and refreshments and since it's a small lodge and we remember who did it last and we all take a turn, we don't bother with reimbursements. 
It's really a pretty amazing system.  We pay rent (which includes utilities) to the SR once a year.  Almost everything else we do (dinners, group visits to plays or the opera, etc) are paid for our of pocket, so there's no need to vote on it.  Our lodge is a small European Concept lodge made up almost exclusively from affiliations and Past Masters, so we rarely have petitions or ballots.  We generally open, read the minutes, say there's no new business, and close in about 20 minutes.  (California has a jewel march as part of the opening and our lodge room is massive, so it takes some time).  Then it's outside for wine and a lecture that one of the brothers has prepared for the evening followed by discussion.
Compared to 3 hours of arguing about whether we should form a committee to see if we can find a cheaper company to mow the lawn, like my old lodge did, it's heaven.


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## Thomas Stright (Dec 28, 2017)

I like the fact that our lodges here in TX do not allow alcohol...
I for one do not need another outlet to drink....


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## David612 (Dec 28, 2017)

Thomas Stright said:


> I like the fact that our lodges here in TX do not allow alcohol...
> I for one do not need another outlet to drink....


It’s not about needing an outlet to drink, it’s more the disconnect in thought between “we are good men, pondering deep thoughts and huge questions but can’t be trusted to have a glass of wine with dinner”


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## Thomas Stright (Dec 28, 2017)

David612 said:


> It’s not about needing an outlet to drink, it’s more the disconnect in thought between “we are good men, pondering deep thoughts and huge questions but can’t be trusted to have a glass of wine with dinner”



I was always told that is what the Shriners are for....


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## David612 (Dec 28, 2017)

Thomas Stright said:


> I was always told that is what the Shriners are for....


Besides the the difference in ritual, VSL and regalia I understand there is no difference.
Where I’m at there are no Shriners but we can drink at meetings (not in the lodge room obviously) but it’s jist an interesting US abnormality.
Ruined it for yourselves you lot!


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## dfreybur (Dec 28, 2017)

Thomas Stright said:


> I was always told that is what the Shriners are for....



It's why the Shine exists.  Not quite the same meaning.  Masonry was founded over Table Lodge of dinner and drinks.  Then the US had its prohibition movement.  So the Shrine was created to get around that.  In other countries there never was a prohibition movement so they don't have the issue.

When I was considering fraternities I did side by side comparisons.  The final entries were Masons, Elks and AMORC.  The Masons beat the Elks for me partially because we don't have a bar.  Not the only reason but it did matter.

Here I am pointing out in the same post why I think we should never have dropped the wine and why I'm glad we did.  I'm not internally consistent.


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## Glen Cook (Dec 28, 2017)

David612 said:


> Besides the the difference in ritual, VSL and regalia I understand there is no difference.
> Where I’m at there are no Shriners but we can drink at meetings (not in the lodge room obviously) but it’s jist an interesting US abnormality.
> Ruined it for yourselves you lot!


Not all US jurisdictions


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## David612 (Dec 28, 2017)

Deleted, fish ain’t biting


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## Thomas Stright (Dec 29, 2017)

David612 said:


> Ruined it for yourselves you lot!



I'll keep my CC over having the ability to have a drink or two....


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## Glen Cook (Dec 29, 2017)

Thomas Stright said:


> I'll keep my CC over having the ability to have a drink or two....


Agreed, but I would clarify that the two are not mutually exclusive.


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## Warrior1256 (Dec 29, 2017)

David612 said:


> It’s not about needing an outlet to drink, it’s more the disconnect in thought between “we are good men, pondering deep thoughts and huge questions but can’t be trusted to have a glass of wine with dinner”


Exactly.


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## Glen Cook (Dec 29, 2017)

David612 said:


> It’s not about needing an outlet to drink, it’s more the disconnect in thought between “we are good men, pondering deep thoughts and huge questions but can’t be trusted to have a glass of wine with dinner”


There is no prohibition on having wine with dinner in the jurisdictions with which I am familiar. Rather, it is serving alcohol in that particular building.


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## hanzosbm (Dec 29, 2017)

I think the prospect of enjoying a few alcoholic drinks before or during the meeting would greatly depend on your individual lodge.  My current lodge I'd have no concerns about.  Our meetings are fast, efficient, and everyone who is there conducts themselves well.

My old lodge...not so much.  Our meeting were LONG with a lot of (in my opinion, pointless) arguing about small things and all kinds of private conversations on the sidelines, not to mention a lack of solemnity during degrees.  Adding alcohol into that mix I don't feel would be a good idea, though I'm sure the brethren would've been all for it.


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## Elexir (Dec 29, 2017)

hanzosbm said:


> I think the prospect of enjoying a few alcoholic drinks before or during the meeting QUOTE]
> 
> We originaly had alchol in lodge on a table when freemasonry came to Sweden.
> Its caused a lot of movment in lodge and was later removed.
> In general when it comes to during meetings only brothers who have a need for drink (WM, SW,JW etc.) should have a glass of water tops.


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## David612 (Dec 29, 2017)

hanzosbm said:


> I think the prospect of enjoying a few alcoholic drinks before or during the meeting would greatly depend on your individual lodge.  My current lodge I'd have no concerns about.  Our meetings are fast, efficient, and everyone who is there conducts themselves well.
> 
> My old lodge...not so much.  Our meeting were LONG with a lot of (in my opinion, pointless) arguing about small things and all kinds of private conversations on the sidelines, not to mention a lack of solemnity during degrees.  Adding alcohol into that mix I don't feel would be a good idea, though I'm sure the brethren would've been all for it.


Yeah fair enough, no need to add fuel to that fire, Culture is everything in the lodge and it looks as though I’m a bit spoiled in that respect.


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