# Aprons



## safehouse (Sep 7, 2013)

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## widows son (Sep 7, 2013)

I think it has to do with the style of dress. Most tuxedos with coattails have a broader jacket, and its usually with this attire that I see aprons under the jacket, with it unbuttoned.


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## Bro. Stewart P.M. (Sep 7, 2013)

safehouse said:


> According to logic and common sense, a man wears an apron outside his cloths, why is it then in some lodges the apron is worn inside your jacket??
> 
> 
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Because some Brothers are ignorant to the proper protocol as to how to wear their aprons.


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## JJones (Sep 7, 2013)

I find that when I button my jacket it kind of bunches up above my apron when I sit and I need to tug it down when I stand up. :1:

I was always taught that you unbutton your jacket when you sit down and button it when you stand back up so, when in lodge, it seemed to make the most since to just leave my jacket unbuttoned and wear my apron under it.  I was correct on this very quickly.

You still see brothers wearing aprons under their jackets.  I could correct them but, to be honest, I'm usually just glad to see people wearing jackets to lodge and I don't want to embarrass or discourage them from wearing one.


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## Godfrey Daniel (Sep 7, 2013)

Bro. Stewart said:


> Because some Brothers are ignorant to the proper protocol as to how to wear their aprons.



Do tell.


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## Bro. Stewart P.M. (Sep 7, 2013)

Godfrey Daniel said:


> Do tell.
> 
> View attachment 3519



Your point is well founded but does not change or modify my position. There is a large difference between a coat with tails, and a suit or sports coat.

Regardless, the proper way to wear an apron in my jurisdiction is  over the coat.


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## Godfrey Daniel (Sep 7, 2013)

double-breasted?


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## Bro. Stewart P.M. (Sep 7, 2013)

Godfrey Daniel said:


> I'm not certain I understand the difference.  Then it follows that certain types of jacket/coat are exempt from the proper protocol of which you say some Brothers are ignorant?  How about double-breasted?



One difference between the tails configuration and a standard suit jacket is the length of the coat at the front. Sorry, I assumed that you knew the difference. A tails configuration nominally does not extend below the waist line in the front, as to the full length (to finger tips, arms fully down and fingers extended) of the standard suit coat.

Brother Washington (as pictured) was from a different era. There are a lot of protocol differences between the 1700's and the 2000's, of course I am sure that you are well aware of that.


As to "ignorant"; Ignorant in this usage is defined as: {lacking knowledge or information as to a particular subject or fact}. In this case, in Texas it is standard protocol that the apron be worn above or outside all other garments. Rest assured that if you choose to enter a Texas Lodge room with your apron under your coat, you will (as my Brother JJones mentioned) be quickly corrected by the Brethren of the Lodge.


I sincerely hope that I have now satisfied your interest in my commentary.


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## Godfrey Daniel (Sep 7, 2013)

Sartorial acumen


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## Mac (Sep 7, 2013)

In Texas, grand lodge law used to allow for the apron to be worn under the coat. Look at the old pictures in your lodges. 

Different jurisdictions have different rules. I always recommend caution when people say "well common sense dictates..."

After all, we are masons. 


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## safehouse (Sep 8, 2013)

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## Bro. Stewart P.M. (Sep 8, 2013)

Godfrey Daniel said:


> Is wearing the apron over all clothing a sign of respect for the accessory or are there more esoteric aspects being considered?



Wearing of the apron "above" all other clothing is out of respect for the apron itself and it's meaning to the craft.


I suppose another way to view the practice would be to ask ourselves, "how would our ancient Brethren wear their aprons?" We do not know for certain how the workmen of the great temple wore their aprons, but it is hard to imagine them wearing their aprons "under" an other attire of the day. Especially the Entered Apprentices and Fellow Crafts, who wore their aprons in such a manner to suit purpose, of which all Masons are aware.


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## Bro. Stewart P.M. (Sep 8, 2013)

safehouse said:


> Imagine been an inner guard. Where you had a provincial lodge meeting with guests, and your job is to see that they are proper clothed,  it be a nightmare, innies to the left outies to the right
> 
> 
> Freemason Connect HD



For me, it is the Junior Warden's duty to insure that all of the Brethren in attendance are to his "satisfaction". For the JW to be satisfied, it would include items such as aprons and how worn, as well as regalia and other appropriate attire.

There have been instances where Brethren have been asked to correct their attire/dress before beginning a meeting. Around this part of the country, such correction is not that big of an ordeal and most already know the "drill".


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## safehouse (Sep 8, 2013)

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## widows son (Sep 8, 2013)

As Bro Anthony Mongelli wrote in his book the craftsman symbology, the wearing of the apron symbolizes androgyny, especially where we are in the lodge when we receive the apron. I recommend his book to all Masons.


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## Godfrey Daniel (Sep 8, 2013)

_control and restraint_


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## Mac (Sep 8, 2013)

Godfrey Daniel said:


> Regardless, play by house rules.


Exactly.  It's possible to find justification for wearing it either way, and Texas has done so in the past.  Other jurisdictions have different rules.  They wear different aprons for each degree, or wear the same apron in a different  way depending on the wearer's degree.  

I personally don't see any issue with it being worn either way, the way being dictated by the coat the person was wearing.  He's still a mason.  I don't think he's any less pure or less symbolic.


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## Godfrey Daniel (Sep 8, 2013)

aprons from fig leaves


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## jwhoff (Sep 8, 2013)

Okay.  Any Grand Lodge of Ireland brethren out there?  

I am told by a regular visitor of my home lodge that members of that jurisdiction wear their aprons across the trousers with the coat open outside the apron.  I am told that this means an Irish mason is always prepared to take off his coat and do honest work for the brotherhood. 

Any verifications on this information?

Down here in Houston, as is everywhere in Texas, the custom is to wear the apron above one's clothing.  Brother Stewart's post above seems most logical to me.  But, then, I tend to find most everything Brother Stewart says to be most logical and weigh heavily his opinion as a learned brother among us.


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## dfreybur (Sep 8, 2013)

jwhoff said:


> Down here in Houston, as is everywhere in Texas, the custom is to wear the apron above one's clothing.



I wear a medal of religious devotion inside my shirt so it is on my heart visible to only me.  I wear an apron of Masonry outside my clothing but inside a tiled lodge so it is visible to my brothers.  I rather like how that is both a contrast of visible to me versus visible to others but also both invisible to outsiders.


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## widows son (Sep 8, 2013)

"Seriously? I'm thinking of Cinderella's ugly step-sisters trying to stuff their huge feet into the petite glass slipper - some things just don't fit. I've read about analogies of the descent of spirit into matter, geometrical significances, and controlling passions, but androgyny? Reflections on the Cause, the Source, or the ultimate Unity?"

• I think he's referring to the unity of polarity, and the similarities to our aprons. Male/female, left brain/right brain etc. By wearing the apron we mask our gender. I dunno, he explains it much better than I do. I think its a great book. And thanks ill check those books out brother.


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## safehouse (Sep 8, 2013)

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## FlBrother324 (Sep 13, 2013)

Godfrey Daniel said:


> Do tell.
> 
> View attachment 3519


Br. Godfrey i must agree with you regarding this statement from our esteemed Brother.

I am currently the W:. M:. of my Lodge in Florida, the proper protocol per our Grand Jurisdiction is to wear the Apron under the jacket. I take exception to a Brother stating another to be ignorant of protocols. For all you know it is the way they are expected to wear their Apron accordingly to their local or state's Jurisdictions protocols. 

We are all Brothers on the Level, and if you feel you must be corrective of another, please before you cast judgement on your Brother, find out if they work under differing rules. Remember, you could be the one incorrectly wearing of your Apron when Traveling to other Lodges, how would you feel if a Brother called you "ignorant"?

If a Brother from your Lodge or Jurisdiction is improperly wearing his Apron then the ignorance is do to a lack of proper training from their fellow Brethren, especially if they are recently raised MM.

Remember your tenets, to keep one's emotions controlled towards another Brother at all times.
Surely you were taught this during your teachings as a Brother?

May the Almighty, bless you and protect you during your Travels my Brother.

Yours, in His service.


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## Bro. Stewart P.M. (Sep 14, 2013)

FlBrother324 said:


> Br. Godfrey i must agree with you regarding this statement from our esteemed Brother.
> 
> I am currently the W:. M:. of my Lodge in Florida, the proper protocol per our Grand Jurisdiction is to wear the Apron under the jacket. I take exception to a Brother stating another to be ignorant of protocols. For all you know it is the way they are expected to wear their Apron accordingly to their local or state's Jurisdictions protocols.
> 
> ...



I do believe that I properly addressed the concerns of the Brethren regarding my usage of the word "ignorant". However since you feel the need to address this once again, here is my earlier response.



> As to "ignorant"; Ignorant in this usage is defined as: {lacking knowledge or information as to a particular subject or fact}. In this case, in Texas it is standard protocol that the apron be worn above or outside all other garments. Rest assured that if you choose to enter a Texas Lodge room with your apron under your coat, you will (as my Brother JJones mentioned) be quickly corrected by the Brethren of the Lodge.



I will not clarify this again, and I take offense to your "rant" towards me as you seem to be the only one who has taken the verbiage so personally. It is a curse and blessing to live in a society who's language offers such diversity and meaning within its vocabulary.


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## Godfrey Daniel (Sep 14, 2013)

*


FlBrother324 said:



			Remember your tenets, to keep one's emotions controlled towards another Brother at all times.
Surely you were taught this during your teachings as a Brother?
		
Click to expand...



*Well stated, Worshipful.  Much time is spent extolling the need for Masonic "education," but so little time, it seems, is spent studying Masonry: * 
"Judge with candor, admonish with friendship . . . "



*


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## Godfrey Daniel (Sep 14, 2013)

Bro. Stewart said:


> I will not clarify this again, and I take offense to your "rant" towards me as you seem to be the only one who has taken the verbiage so personally.



When I first responded to this thread, it was because I took exception to your use of the word "ignorant" in the context which it was used.  How about, ". . . as you are uninstructed?"  Just a thought.


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## Bro. Stewart P.M. (Sep 14, 2013)

Godfrey Daniel said:


> When I first responded to this thread, it was because I took exception to your use of the word "ignorant" in the context which it was used.  How about, ". . . as you are uninstructed?"  Just a thought.



How about people not reading threads or posts "looking" to be offended!?!

We have a plague in our society today relating directly to this very subject matter. There is a large amount of people who honestly perceive that everyone else is out to get them. I am by no means accusing you, I do not know you personally and can not arrive at such conclusion without advanced knowledge. My choosing to use the word ignorant in the referenced context is what it is, I could have chosen numerous other substitutions from a thesaurus which I can only assume may have been taken just as offensively.

Choose an alternate from these: http://thesaurus.com/browse/ignorant

We have also run in to similar discussion with the usage of the words "Clandestine, Irregular" in this forum.

I did not take an issue with the manner in which you handled my original post, however the most recent post by our other Worthy Brother "FlBrother324" was a direct "attack" towards me personally no matter the "politeness" of his verbiage selection or sentence construction.

I do feel that my choosing to use the term "ignorant" was clarified by myself quite thoroughly previous to recent commentary.


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## dfreybur (Sep 14, 2013)

FlBrother324 said:


> Remember, you could be the one incorrectly wearing of your Apron when Traveling to other Lodges



As a visitor I should and do wear my apron as specified in my own jurisdictions.  Variations of this type are one of the beauties of Masonry and a good conversation starter once the lodge is at refreshment.



> how would you feel if a Brother called you "ignorant"?



Visiting a Florida lodge or a lodge in any jurisdiction other than my own list, I would wear my apron in the California, Illinois or Texas manner consistent with the custom in my jurisdictions.  Were I to be called ignorant for doing that, my knowledge of the jurisdiction would be increased but I would no longer be the ignorant one.  I would have on the spot learned that the local custom is different from the custom in my three jurisdictions.  Just as your post just educated me about this detail of apron customs in your jurisdiction.

The local brother calling me ignorant would in fact be the ignorant one.  Having learned his jurisdiction's custom I would inform him of my jurisdictions' customs.  Of course we all know how that works - Ignorance is cured by education.


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## FlBrother324 (Sep 14, 2013)

Bro. Stewart said:


> I do believe that I properly addressed the concerns of the Brethren regarding my usage of the word "ignorant". However since you feel the need to address this once again, here is my earlier response.
> 
> 
> 
> I will not clarify this again, and I take offense to your "rant" towards me as you seem to be the only one who has taken the verbiage so personally. It is a curse and blessing to live in a society who's language offers such diversity and meaning within its vocabulary.



My esteemed Br. Stewart, 

As my Masonic Brother I would like to apologize to you  publicly for my previous post directed to you. 
It was directed to you, because it was your post I took exception to. It would be rather odd to address it to someone else.  It was done sincerely and without malice towards you.

I was just trying to point out that as a Brother,  I took exception to your post. I'm well aware that it was not directed to me personally,  nor did I say it was.  Regarding your statement it was presumptuous of you to make a blanket statement such as you did. 

Regarding my "rant" as you put it, I was merely stating my reasons for taking exception to the content of your post.  

I take nothing said in this forum "Personally", we are all Brothers here, and I find it refreshing to be able to discuss things with my Brethren from around the globe. I do expect varying responses to things I might say in my posts, and if I've stated things incorrectly or caused offense, then I gladly accept those critiques from my Brethren and apply it to my growing knowledge base of all things Masonic.

Finding this forum was a delight for me, and though I am a veritable " new comer" here, I find it to be quite enlightening at times, and have enjoyed many topics that have been discussed within it. 

Let us agree to disagree and move on to more Light together as Brothers. I hold no animosity towards anyone on this forum ( even the Crazy People we've encountered here ), I only want to enjoy learning from my Brethren whenever possible.

I thank you, and all the Brethren responsible for making this such a wonderful forum to be a part of.

May the GAOTU watch over you and your family, and you be blessed with peace and harmony through your daily travels.

Yours, in His service.

W:.Br. Richard Corcoran

P.S.

If you are ever in N. Central Florida (west coast) please come visit with us as my guest, I promise  that you will be well fed, and treated like Family.

God Bless you my Brother.

Goodnight Y'all !


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## Bro.Hill (Sep 15, 2013)

I agree with you because I have been to different lodges up north and are way different from the south. Great experience to be apart of


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