# Clandestine Masons and Clandestine Freemasonry



## My Freemasonry

In this installment of Symbols & Symbolism we look at a reading from Albert G. Mackey’s _Encyclopedia of Freemasonry_ on the meanings behind _Clandestine_, _Clandestine Lodge_ and a _Clandestine Freemason_.

The video, deals with the first two subjects, the third is a subject of much contention creating clear vernacular delineation of what IS and what IS NOT considered by the various denominations of the fraternity.

You can find more installments of these educational pieces under Symbols & Symbolism, and on YouTube.


*Clandestine*


The ordinary meaning of this word is secret, hidden. The French word _clandestin_, from which it is derived, is defined by Boiste (_Pierre-Claude-Victor Boiste_ – _Dictionnaire universel de la langue française_, first published in 1800) to be something:


fait en cachette et contre les lois.​
Translated to mean – _done in a hiding-place and against the laws_ (or, as translated by Google Translate – _made secretly and against laws_), which better suits the Masonic signification, which is _illegal, not authorized_. _Irregular_ is often used for small departures from custom.





The Frontispiece to Noorthouck’s 1784 Constitution.

*Clandestine Lodge*


A body of Masons uniting in a Lodge without the consent of a Grand Lodge, or, although originally legally constituted, continuing to work after its charter has been revoked, is styled a “Clandestine Lodge.” Neither Anderson nor Entick employ the word. It was first used in the _Book of Constitutions_ in a note by Noortbouck, on page 239 of his edition _(Constitutions, 1784)._ Irregular Lodge would be the better term.

*Clandestine Mason*


One made in or affiliated with a clandestine Lodge. With clandestine Lodges or Masons, regular Masons are forbidden to associate or converse on Masonic subjects.

In the _Book of Constitutions_, Noortbouck’s comments read, first under the Abstract of the Laws Relating to the General Fund of Charity

IV, page ii:


No person made a mason in a private or clandestine manner, for small or unworthy considerations, can act as a grand officer or as an officer of a private lodge, or can he partake of the general charity.​
Interestingly, they tell us their reasons:










And then Under the Making of a Mason (page 394 and 395), ART V


A brother concerned in making masons clandestinely, shall not be allowed to visit any lodge till he has made due submission, even though the brothers so made may be allowed.​
and, ART VIII, page 395:


Seeing that some brothers have been made lately in a clandestine manner, that is, in no regular lodge, nor by any authority or dispensation from the grand master, and for small and unworthy considerations, to the dishonor of the craft; the grand lodge decreed, that no person so made, nor any of those concerned in making him, shall be a grand officer, nor an officer of a particular lodge; nor shall partake of the general charity, should they ever be reduced to apply for it.​
From a _Short Talk Bulletin, Vol.XIII, No, 12_, from 1935 says definitively (for that time) that,


Today the Masonic world is entirely agreed on what constitutes a clandestine body, or a clandestine Mason; the one is a Lodge or Grand Lodge unrecognized by other Grand Lodges, working without right, authority or legitimate descent; the other is a man “made a Mason” on such a clandestine body.​

















 







Continue reading...


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## coachn

There is one thing that is constant in Freemasonic Lore, the zeal of its story-tellers is only outweighed by their historic fabrications.


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## LAMason

*Ahiman Rezon*

“...In the preface or address to the reader, Dermott pokes fun at the history of Freemasonry as written by Doctor Anderson and others, and wittily explains the reason why he has not published a history of Freemasonry….”

 Source: Mackey's Encyclopedia of Freemasonry

“THE EDITOR TO THE READER

IT has been the general Custom of all my worthy Brethren, who have honoured the Craft with their Books of Constitutions, or Pocket-Companions for Free-Masons, to give us a long and pleasing history of Masonry from the Creation to the Time of their writing and publishing such Accounts, viz, from Adam to Noah, from Noah to Nimrod, from Nimrod to Solomon, from Solomon to Cyrus, from Cyrus to Seleucus Nicator, from Seleucus Nicator to Augustus Caesar, from Augustus Caesar to the Havock of the Goths, and so on until the Revival of the Augustan Steyle, &c., &c., &c. Wherein they give us an Account of the drawing, scheming, planning, [vi] designing, erecting, and building of Temples, Towers, Cities, Castles, Palaces, Theatres, Pyramids, Monuments, Bridges, Walls, Pillars, Courts, Halls, Fortifications, and Labyrinths, with the famous Light-house of Pharos and the colossus at Rhodes, and many other wonderful Works performed by the ARCHITECTS, to the great Satisfaction of the Readers and Edification of Free-Masons.1 HAVING called to Mind the old Proverb, Better out of the World than out of Fashion, I was fully determined to publish a History of Masonry, whereby I did expect to give the World an uncommon Satisfaction; and in order to enable myself to execute this great Design, I purchased all or most of the Histories, Constitutions, Pocket-Companions, and other Pieces (on that Subject) now extent in the English Tongue. My next Step was to furnish myself with a sufficient Quantity of Pens, Ink, and Paper;

This being done, I immediately fancied myself an Historian, and intended to trace Masonry not only to Adam in his sylvan Lodge in Paradise, but to give some Account of the Craft even before the Creation; and (as a Foundation) I placed the following Works round about me, so as to be convenient to have Recourse to them as Occasion should require, viz. Doctor Anderson and Mr [a 2-vii] Spratt directly before me, Doctor D'Assigny and Mr Smith on my Right-hand, Doctor Desagulier and Mr Pennell on my Left-hand, and Mr Scott and Mr Lyon behind me; A Copy of (that often called) the Original Constitutions (said to be in the Possession of Mr John Clark, in Paris), and another Copy of the same Magnitude handed about in England, together with the Pamphlet printed at Frankfort in Germany. I tied up in the Public Advertiser of Friday, October 19, 1753, and threw them under the Table. HAVING tried my Pen, and wrote a Line not unlike the Beginning of a Chapter in the Alcoran2 , I began to flourish away in a most admirable Manner, and in a few Days wrote the first Volume of the History of masonry, wherein was a full Account of the Transactions of the first Grand Lodge, particularly the excluding of the unruly Members as related by Mr Milton3. By this Time I imagined myself superior to Josephus, Stackhouse, or any other Historian whom the Reader shall please to think on. And as I intended to give the [viii] World a History of Masonry for several Years before the Creation, I made no manner of Doubt but my Work should live (as least) two Thousand years after the general Conflagration. PERHAPS some of my Readers (I mean those that are best acquainted with my Capacity) Will say, he has more Vanity than Wit; and as to Learning, it is as great a Stranger to him, as Free-Masonry is to Women; yet he has the Folly to think himself an Historian and expects to become a great Man, &c. WHETHER such an Opinion be true, or false, it matters nought to me; for the World must allow, that (tho' no Man has yet found out the perpetual Motion) all Men ever had, has now, and ever will have, a perpetual Notion; And furthermore, we read that the following Person, so much fam'd in History, were not only poor Men, but many of them of a very mean Extraction. The wise Philosopher Socrates, was the Son of a poor Stone-Carver; the tragic Poet Euripides, was the Son of poor Parents; as was Demosthenes, the Honour of Greek Eloquence; Virgil, the famous Latin Poet, was the Son of a poor Mantuan labouring Potter; Horace, the incomparable Lyric, was the son of Trumpeter in the Wars; Tanquinian Priscus, King of the Romans, was begotten on a Woman-slave; Septimius Severus, is said to come of [ix] a very base Degree; Agathocles, King of Sicilly, was a Potter's Son; Ælius Pertinas was a poor Artificer, or some say a simple Seller of Wood; the Parents of Venadius Bassius, are said to be very miserable poor People; and Arsaces, King of the Parthians, was of so mean and obscure Parentage that no Man's Memory could make a Report of his Father or Mother; Ptolomy: King of Egypt, was the Son of a Squire in Alexander's Army; the Emperor Diocletian, was the Son of a Scrivener; the Emperor Valentinian, was the Son of a Rope-maker; the Emperor Probus, was the Son of a Gardener; and the parents of Aurelius, were so obscure that Writers have not agreed who they were; Maximinus was the Son of a Smith, or as some say a Waggon-Wright; Marcus Julius Licinius, was the Son of a Herdsman; Bonosus, was the

Son of a poor stipendiary Schoolmaster; Mauritus Justimus, Predecessor to Justinian, and likewise Galerus, were both Shepherds; Pope John, the Twenty-second of that Name, was the Son of a Shoe-maker; Pope Nicholas the Fifth, was the Son of a Man who sold Eggs and Butter about the Streets; and Pope Sixtus the Fourth, was a Mariner's Son; Lamusius, King of the Lombards, was the Son of a common Strumpet, who (when he was an infant) threw him into a Ditch, but was taken out by King Agelmond; Primislaus, King of Bohemia, was the Son of a country Peasant; Tamerlane the Great, was a Herdsman; Casius Marius, seven Times Consul of Rome, was [x] born of poor Parents in the Village of Arpinum; and Marcus Tullius Cicero, Consul of Rome and Pro-Consul in Asia, was from the poor Tuguriole of Arpinum, the meanest Parentage that could be; Ventidus, Field-Marshal and Consul of Rome, was the Son of a Muleteer; and Theophrastus was the Son of a Botcher, i.e. a Mender of Garments, &c. I have heard of many others of later Date (not so far distant as Fequin) that have preferr'd to Places or Offices of great Trust, and dignified with Titles of Honour, without having the least Claim to Courage, Wit, Learning, or Honesty; therefore if such Occurrences be duly considered, I humbly conceive it will not deem'd as a capital Offence, that I should entertain my own perpetual Notion, while I do not endeavour to disinherit any Man of his Properties. I DOUBT I have tir'd the Reader's Patience; and if so, I humbly beg his Pardon for this long Digression. But to return: While my Mind was wholly taken up with my fancied Superiority as an Historian, &c. I insensibly fell into a Slumber, when me-thought four Men entered my Room; their Habits appeared to be of very ancient Fashion, and their Language also I imagined to be either Hebrew, Arabic, or Chaldean, in which they addressed me, and I immediately answered [xi] them after the Pantomine Fashion; After some formal Ceremonies, I desired to know their names and from whence they came; to which one of them answered me (in English) We are four Brothers, and came from the holy City of Jerusalem; our Names are Shallum, Ahiman, Akhub, and Talmon. Hearing they were Sojourners from Jerusalem, I asked them whether they would give any Account of SOLOMON'S temple; to which Shallum(the chief of them) made Answer and said, The wise King SOLOMON, GRAND-MASTER of Israel, appointed up head Porters at the Temple, in the thirty-second Year of his Age, the twelfth of his Reign, and about the Year of the World 2942; and therefore we can give a full and particular Description of that wonderful Fabrick, and likewise of the ingenious Artists who perform'd it. I was glad to meet with such Brethren, from whom I did expect a great deal of Knowledge; which the many Ages they had lived in must have taught them, if their memories did not fail; Upon this Consideration I told them, that I was writing a History of Masonry, and beg'd their Assistance, &c. A HISTORY of Masonry! (says Ahiman) from the Day of the Dedication of the Holy Temple to this present Time, I have not seen a History of Masonry, [xii] though some have pretended (not only) to describe the Length, Breadth, Heighth, Weight, Colour, Shape, Form, and Substance of every Thing within and about the Temple; but also to tell the spiritual45 6 meaning of them, as if they knew the Mind of him who gave Orders for that Building, or seen it finished; But I can assure you, that such Surveyors have never seen the Temple, nay never have been within a thousand Miles of Jerusalem: Indeed (continued he) there was one Flavius (I think he was a Soldier) took a great deal of Notice of the Temple, and other Matters about it; as did another Man, called Jerry; There were two others whose Names I have forgot, but remember one of them as an excellent Dreamer, and the other was very handy in collecting all Manner of good Writing after the Captivity. Those were the only Men that have wrote most and best upon that Subject, and yet all their Works together would not be sufficient for a Preface to the History of Masonry; but for your further Instruction, you shall hear an eminent Brother who can inform you in every Particular that is necessary to your present Undertaking. The Words were scarce ended, when there appeared a [xiii] grave old Gentleman, with a long Beard; he was dressed in an embroidered Vest, and wore a Breast-Plate of God, set with twelve precious Stones, which formed an oblong Square; I was informed that the Names of the Stones were Sardine, Emerald, Ligure, Beryl, Topas, Saphire, Agate, Onyx, Carbuncle, Diamond, Amethyst, and Jasper; Upon these Stones were engraved the Names of the twelve Tribes, viz. Reuben, Judah, Gad, Zebulun, Simeon, Dan, Asher, Joseph, Levi, Naphthali, Issacher, and Benjamin. UPON his entrance, the four Sojourners did him the Homage due to a Superior; and as to me, the Lustre of his Breast-Plate dazzled my Sight, in such a Manner that I could scarce look at him. But Ahiman give ing[sic] him to understand that the People of this Country were weak-sighted, he immediately covered his Breast-Plate; which not only gave me an Opportunity of perceiving him more distinct, but also of paying him my Respects in the best Manner I was capable of; and making a very low Bow, I presented him with the first Volume of the History of Masonry, hoped he would do me the honour of perusing it, and beg'd his Advice for my further proceedings. He kindly received it and read it over, whilst I impatiently waited to hear his Opinion; which at last (to my Mortification) amounted to no more than an old Hebrew Proverb (which Ahiman translated thus: Thou has div'd deep [xiv] into the Water, and hast brought up a Potsherd); Nevertheless he took me by the Hand, and said789 10 : My Son, if thou wilt thou shalt be taught, and if thou wilt apply thy Mind thou shalt be witty; if thou love to hear thou shalt receive (Doctrine); and if thou delight in hearing thou shalt be wise; And although your History of Masonry is not worth Notice, yet you may write many other Things of great Service to the Fraternity. CERTAIN it is (continued he) that Free-Masonry has been from the Creation (though not under that Name); that it was a divine Gift from GOD; that Cain and the Builders of this City were Strangers to the secret Mystery of Masonry; that there were but four Masons in the World when the Deluge happened; that one of the four, even the second Son of Noah, was not Master of the Art; that Nimrod, nor any of his Bricklayers, knew any Thing of the Matter; and that there were but a very few Masters of the Art (even) at Solomon's Temple; Whereby it plainly appears, that the whole Mystery was communicated to a very few at that Time; that at Solomon's Temple (and not before) it received the name of Free-Masonry, because the Masons at Jerusalem and Tyre were the greatest Cabalists then in the World; that the Mystery has been, for the [xv] most Part, practiced amongst Builders since Solomon's Time; that there were some hundreds mentioned (in Histories of

Masonry) under the Titles of Grand-Masters, &c. for no other Reason that that of giving Orders for the building of a House, Tower, Castle, or some other Edifice (or perhaps for suffering the Masons to erect such in their Territories, &c.) while the Memories of as many Thousands of the faithful Crafts are buried in Oblivion; From whence he gave me to understand, that such Histories were of no use to the Society at present; and further added, that the Manner of constituting new Lodges, the old and new Regulations, &c. were the only and most useful Things (concerning Free-Masonry) that could be wrote; To which I beg'd to be informed, whether Songs were to be introduced: His answer was:

11If thou be made the Master, lift not thyself upl but be among them as one of the rest; Take diligent Care for them, and so sit down. And when thous has done all thy Duty, sit down, that thou mayst be merry with them; and receive a Crown for thy good Behaviour. Speak thou art the elder; for it becometh thee; but with sound Judgment; and hinder not Music. And all Times let thy Garments be White.12

WHILE he was speaking these last Words, I was awakened by a young puppy that (got into the Room [xvi] while I slept, and, seizing my Papers, eat a great Part of the, and) was then (between my Legs( shaking and tearing the last Sheet of what I had wrote. I HAVE not Words to express the Sorrow, Grief, Trouble, and Vexation was in, upon seeing the Catastrophe of a Work which I expected would outlast the Teeth of Time. Like one distracted (as in Truth I was) I ran to the Owner of the Dog, and demanded immediate Satisfaction; He told me he would hang the Cur; but at the same Time he imagined I should be under more Obligation to him for so doing, then he was to me for what happened. IN short, I looked upon it as a bad Omen; and my late dream had made so great an Impression on my Mind, that Superstition got the better of me, and caused me to deviate from the general Custom of my worthy Predecessors; otherwise I would have published a History of Masonry; and as this is rather an accidental than a designed Fault, I hope the Reader will look over it with a favourable Eye. IN the following Sheets I have inserted nothing but what are undeniable Truths, which will be found (if observed) to be of great Use to the Fraternity, and likewise to Numbers that are not of the Society; to the [xvii] latter, because it will (in some Measure) show them their Folly in ridiculing a Society founded upon Religion, Morality, Brotherly-Love, and good Fellowship; and those of a more gentle and better polished Nature, give them an Opportunity of examining themselves, and judging how much they are endued with the necessary Qualifications of a Free-Mason, before they apply to be Members of the Society. HOW far I may succeed in this Design, I know not; but as my Intent is good, I hope my Brethren and others will accept the Will for the Deed, and receive this as the Widow's Mite was received; which will amply reward the Trouble taken by him who is,

With all due Respect, The Reader's Most obliged Humble Servant

L. D.”

Source:  Ahiman Rezon 1756


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## coachn

*FREEMASONS*, _n._
An order with secret rites, grotesque ceremonies and fantastic costumes, which, originating in the reign of Charles II, among working artisans of London, has been joined successively by the dead of past centuries in unbroken retrogression until now it embraces all the generations of man on the hither side of Adam and is drumming up distinguished recruits among the pre-Creational inhabitants of Chaos and Formless Void. The order was founded at different times by Charlemagne, Julius Caesar, Cyrus, Solomon, Zoroaster, Confucious, Thothmes, and Buddha. Its emblems and symbols have been found in the Catacombs of Paris and Rome, on the stones of the Parthenon and the Chinese Great Wall, among the temples of Karnak and Palmyra and in the Egyptian Pyramids -- always by a Freemason.
Source: _The Devil's Dictionary_ by Ambrose Bierce


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## coachn

What Fact?


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## dfreybur

JamestheJust said:


> So are lodges derived from the Grand Lodge of 1717 clandestine  by that fact?



Consider - Jurisdictions that found themselves, other than the lineage from 1717, would consider us clandestine if they followed the same rules.  They don't, so no they are not clandestine from the fact that the 1717 meeting was the first time a jurisdiction of any sort was created.

Immemorial lodges that predate the formation of the 3 mother jurisdictions did exist and were eventually annexed by regular jurisdictions.  Clandestine or not, they joined us.  One such lodge is Mother Killwining Number 0.  They has been functioning for a very long time before they joined their jurisdiction so they asked fro and got the lowest number of any lodge.


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## LAMason

JamestheJust said:


> Although according to the first post above the 1717 Grand Lodge was a "revival", hence there must have been a previous jurisdiction.
> 
> This is supported by the youngest of the 4 lodges apparently being formed in 1717.  Was that a clandestine lodge, or did it have a charter?
> 
> "The second Lodge which originally met at the Crown Ale-house is believed to have originated in 1712"  http://www.phoenixmasonry.org/goose_and_gridiron_ale-house.htm
> 
> The other 3 lodges had all commenced within human memory, so the same question can be asked: from where did they get their charters?
> 
> So if these lodges were self-chartered, what is the status of the 1717 GL?



Legend is not fact.
…

As to the authority under which the four old lodges, as well as all others that existed in England, acted, it must be admitted that they derived that authority from no power outside of themselves. "The authority," says Bro. Hughan, "by which they worked prior to the advent of the Grand Lodge was their own. We know of no other prior to that period for England."

Preston admits that previous to the year 1717 "a sufficient number of Masons met together within a certain district, with the consent of the sheriff or chief magistrate of the place, were empowered to make Masons and practice the rites of Masonry without Warrant of Constitution."

…

The only allusion made to the manner of organizing a lodge is contained in the Harleian MS., which prescribes that it must consist of not less than five Freemasons, one of whom must be a master or warden of the limit or division wherein the lodge is held.

From this regulation we are authorized, I think, to conclude, that in 1670, which is the date of the Harleian MS., nothing more was necessary in forming a lodge in which "to make Masons or practice the rites of Masonry," as Preston gives the phrase, than that a requisite number should be present, with a Master or Warden working in that locality.

…

We arrive, therefore, again at the legitimate conclusion that the establishment of the Grand Lodge of England in June, 1717, was not a revival of the old system of Freemasonry, which soon after became extinct, but its change into a new system.

...

Source:
 THE HISTORY OF FREEMSONRY VOLUME FOUR BY: ALBERT GALLATIN MACKEY, MD
CHAPTER XXX  WAS THE ORGANIZATION OF THE GRAND LODGE IN 1717 A REVIVAL?


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## coachn

JamestheJust said:


> Unfortunately the extinct form of Masonry formed its own Antient Grand Lodge of England and that continued until the 2 English GL united in 1813 - at which time the extinct form of Masonry had 260 active lodges  in England.
> 
> "After the Union the ritual forms adopted were largely those the Antients had championed"
> http://antients.org/antients-grand-lodge-brief-history.html
> 
> Still, every one is entitled to write their own history.


Unfortunately, the illusion that there existed a form of Masonry that is now extinct that was championed by some competitive theatrical group is still infecting Freemasons to this day.  Masonry is not extinct.  It exists and is still practiced, just not in the way that Freemasons have been taught to imagine and depict it. 

And Freemasonry, as much as many of its plays use an imagined Masonry as a backdrop to communicate Moral ideas, has little to nothing to do with Masonry as it was and is still practiced.  It does however have everything to do with Theater in the Round as practiced by many of the guilds of year's past.


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## jdmadsen

What do you coach?


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## coachn

jdmadsen said:


> What do you coach?


Please refer to my personal information here: http://www.myfreemasonry.com/members/coachn.2329/

I noticed you have no information denoting who you are.  Who are you and where are you located?  Are you a Freemason?


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## jdmadsen

Sorry that was a typo....i meant to say what do you mean, coach? In reference to your last post.  I dont have any info as this is my backup profile.  Somehow i got locked out of my other one..jdmadsencraterlake211.  Yes i am a freemason,  i am a member of Crater Lake Lodge 211 in Klamath Falls,OR and Cerrillios Lodge #19 in NM.  I am a US Army recruiter currently stationed in NM


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## LAMason

JamestheJust said:


> Still, every one is entitled to write their own history.



If the history they write is inaccurate then it is historical fiction.


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## LAMason

coachn said:


> Masonry as it was and is still practiced.  It does however have everything to do with Theater in the Round as practiced by many of the guilds of year's past.



Will you elucidate?


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## coachn

coachn said: ↑
Masonry as it was and is still practiced. It does however have everything to do with Theater in the Round as practiced by many of the guilds of year's past.


LAMason said:


> Will you elucidate?


What is referred to as "Masonry" by most all Freemasonic Organizations is* total emersion live action role playing theater* constructed with a backdrop of symbols associated by way of allegory, metaphor and lore with Stonecraft.  It is not Masonry though.

*Masonry* is a Craft that requires both Speculation (thoughtful planning) and Operation (physical application) in harvesting, shaping and building with physical stone.  All this requires training, none of which is provided by most all existing Freemasonic Societies.  This Craft, Masonry, is still practiced to this day, _only not by the majority of Freemasonic Societies_.  There are a few exceptions (lodges) but they are not the norm, are extremely rare and are Freemasonic lodges that have kept both theater and Stonecraft activities in their practices, making every effort to play the role of Mason for real.

*Freemasonry* is a Craft that is theatrically based.  It requires the memorization and application of specific Scripts to perform Morality Plays (in the form of initiatory dramas) for patrons who participate in the performances as their central characters or support characters. Its plays are fashioned as theater in the round (and half-round in some of the more advanced degrees), much like those put on by many medieval guilds (not just stonecraft) did long ago.

With rare exception, what masquerades as speculation by its membership is conjecture.  Most members do not know the difference.  What masquerades as history is fabricated lore.  Most members do not realize how much Freemasonic history has been fabricated to support the total emersion Role Playing reality needed to entertain its members and keep them interested.  What masquerades as Freemasonic reality is well-scripted role playing that has little to nothing to do with actual history. Many members get pulled into its fantasy never to return.

Freemasonry's central purpose is to preserve and propagate what it does while providing men opportunity to examine and improve their morality as a secondary purpose. * 
*
In Freemasonic practice, the word* Masonry* is a hijacked and redefined word to denote Building Concepts as applied by Freemasons in the bettering of good men.  Unfortunately, very few Jurisdictions actually have programs that follow and support that which its rich Script allude.  Most all of a Jurisdiction's efforts goes into preserving and propagating its Organizations and their Structures.  Should you want to better yourself (without participating in something that is designed to support its organizational structures), don't expect the organization to provide you with programs to do so.

_*This being said, Freemasonic Structures are brilliant in their design!  They offer excellent opportunities for good men of all faiths to come together, to work together and to be together to follow specific scripts that focus their attention of becoming better, creating social harmony and improving social conditions, should they follow them.*_

All of this is done under the guise of total emersion live action role playing theater _without overtly saying so._

It could not and cannot be designed any better.


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## coachn

jdmadsen said:


> Sorry that was a typo....i meant to say what do you mean, coach? In reference to your last post.  I dont have any info as this is my backup profile.  Somehow i got locked out of my other one..jdmadsencraterlake211.  Yes i am a freemason,  i am a member of Crater Lake Lodge 211 in Klamath Falls,OR and Cerrillios Lodge #19 in NM.  I am a US Army recruiter currently stationed in NM


LOL!  Too funny.  Thanks for clarifying all this.

I just posted what I mean Bro.!


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## Ripcord22A

Got back in to my account,


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## acjohnson53

Too much reading, might be informative, but to deep for me....


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## Warrior1256

coachn said:


> There is one thing that is constant in Freemasonic Lore, the zeal of its story-tellers is only outweighed by their historic fabrications.


***gasp*** You mean all of the stories we learn in lodge are not true???!!!  "snicker snicker"


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## coachn

Warrior1256 said:


> ***gasp*** You mean all of the stories we learn in lodge are not true???!!!  "snicker snicker"


Well, not "all" of them...


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## Warrior1256

coachn said:


> Well, not "all" of them...


Oh....thank heaven. I was about to have a coronary.


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## acjohnson53

I do have an Uncle Name Hiram Abiff???


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## Ripcord22A

acjohnson53 said:


> I do have an Uncle Name Hiram Abiff???



Is that a question?  I don’t understand the use of the ???s


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## Dontrell Stroman

Maybe off topic, but I have to say this. I went to a brothers store today to purchase some items. I knew he was a brother because I have sat in Lodge with him. While in the store we got to chatten about freemasonry. He wanted to let me know how "Much" of a mason he was. He pointed at his ring, which showed  33rd and stated im a Past GM. I said really, of what GL.  He said a Scottish Rite GL. He didnt know I knew that was clandestine. He is now a PHA mason but its funny how some people throw their titles around regardless if its clandestine or not.

Sent from my LG-LS997 using My Freemasonry mobile app


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## Warrior1256

Travelling Man91 said:


> He pointed at his ring, which showed 33rd and stated im a Past GM. I said really, of what GL. He said a Scottish Rite GL. He didnt know I knew that was clandestine. He is now a PHA mason but its funny how some people throw their titles around regardless if its clandestine or not.


Interesting!


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## Dontrell Stroman

Warrior1256 said:


> Interesting!


Very interesting, could you imgaine an unsuspecting man how wants to join our craft approach aman like that and he states yes im a Past Grand Master, automatically the man will become intrigued as his "Title" speaks volume.

Sent from my LG-LS997 using My Freemasonry mobile app


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## Warrior1256

Travelling Man91 said:


> Very interesting, could you imgaine an unsuspecting man how wants to join our craft approach aman like that and he states yes im a Past Grand Master, automatically the man will become intrigued as his "Title" speaks volume.


Absolutely. I was 58 years old when I petitioned and had done some previous research so I knew something about clandestine Masonry. However, many petitioners do not.


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## Glen Cook

Travelling Man91 said:


> Very interesting, could you imgaine an unsuspecting man how wants to join our craft approach aman like that and he states yes im a Past Grand Master, automatically the man will become intrigued as his "Title" speaks volume.
> 
> Sent from my LG-LS997 using My Freemasonry mobile app


Well, PGMs tend to speak volumes anyway


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## Warrior1256

Glen Cook said:


> Well, PGMs tend to speak volumes anyway


Lol....very true!


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## dfreybur

Glen Cook said:


> Well, PGMs tend to speak volumes anyway



No need for the G in that acronym ...


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## Warrior1256

dfreybur said:


> No need for the G in that acronym ...


Very true!!! Lol.


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## Glen Cook

dfreybur said:


> No need for the G in that acronym ...


I didn’t want to get too many people grumpier.


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## Joe Ellis

Interesting reading Brethren..!


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## Glen Cook

Joe Ellis said:


> Interesting reading Brethren..!


It’s my understanding you resigned during you mastership and did not complete your year.  If my recollection on this point  is correct, you are not a PM in UGLE.  _See_  P 47,  Information for Guidance of Members of the Craft:

PAST MASTERS OF PRIVATE LODGES
(i) Who are the Past Masters referred to in Rule 264, Book of Constitutions?
Those who have served a year as Master of a Lodge under the English Constitution and have not been promoted to Grand Rank, Provincial, District, London, or Overseas Grand Rank.

Just to be clear for those who are reading, this individual has chosen to join a co -ed lodge. While I do not criticize the choice, there should be candor in describing the affiliation.


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