# Pros and Cons of Consolidation



## bupton52 (Feb 19, 2017)

What are your thoughts on this? Is there any advantage or disadvantage to having a single GL made up of a merger of the GL and PHGL of the respective state? What of one for the entire US modeled off of the way the UGLE is structured with provincial (state) GLs?


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## Brother JC (Feb 19, 2017)

The first and greatest hurdle I see is writing a single Constitution. With nearly 100 variations already in play, trying to get all 52 provinces to agree would be epic.


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## Ripcord22A (Feb 19, 2017)

Could you imagine if there was a Natl GL? Man I can barely handle GLs as they are.  Always trying to get involved in lodge business and force that YRs GMs agenda down ur throat.  

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## Warrior1256 (Feb 19, 2017)

IMHO the only thing that a national lodge would accomplish would be to cause further confusion and just be one more fee to pay.


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## Bloke (Feb 19, 2017)

bupton52 said:


> What are your thoughts on this? Is there any advantage or disadvantage to having a single GL made up of a merger of the GL and PHGL of the respective state? What of one for the entire US modeled off of the way the UGLE is structured with provincial (state) GLs?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using My Freemasonry



Two questions here in your post.
1 One GL per state?
Not a fan. Someone has to give up traditions and sign over assets. I like diversity in the Craft..

2 National GL?
Creates systemic risk and consolidating or regulating all GLs would be trick. You realize Sovereignty is important when someone tries to make you do something that you don't want to do...

I see economy of scale and administrative advantages, but they never outweigh the downsides.. nor the mindset it's often proposed in the context of managing decline which upsets me, stop the decline, or stop viewing it as decline....


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## Ripcord22A (Feb 19, 2017)

Warrior1256 said:


> IMHO the only thing that a national lodge would accomplish would be to cause further confusion and just be one more fee to pay.


Can you imagine how much that would be? The pet capita alone would be outrageous!

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## Brother JC (Feb 19, 2017)

Warrior1256 said:


> IMHO the only thing that a national lodge would accomplish would be to cause further confusion and just be one more fee to pay.


No, your dues would be similar, they'd just go to the UGLA instead of your province (state). Dues would also be the same nationwide.


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## Bloke (Feb 19, 2017)

Brother JC said:


> No, your dues would be similar, they'd just go to the UGLA instead of your province (state). Dues would also be the same nationwide.


Another problem would be the big states would swamp the small, unless you allot votes per Grand Lodge, but then a state of 1K masons has a the same vote as 100K.

Really, the only way to talk about this is what would be the advantages and a lot of people would see strengths as weaknesses..


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## Brother JC (Feb 19, 2017)

More the number of lodges per state, but yes, I can see that.


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## Warrior1256 (Feb 19, 2017)

Bloke said:


> You realize Sovereignty is important when someone tries to make you do something that you don't want to do...


Yep.


Ripcord22A said:


> Can you imagine how much that would be? The pet capita alone would be outrageous!


Yep.


Brother JC said:


> No, your dues would be similar, they'd just go to the UGLA instead of your province (state). Dues would also be the same nationwide.


Not necessarily.


Bloke said:


> Another problem would be the big states would swamp the small


Yep.


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## Glen Cook (Feb 19, 2017)

I  am a member of a national GL.  It offers  no inherent benefits. 

You would have one more layer between you and GL; you would be that much more detached from the decision making process. 

This suggestion is sometimes driven by dislike for the policies of a particular GL.  Those policies could become nationwide policies. 

I am an officer in national bodies. Are you willing to travel across the country?

A national GL would require a full time GM.  Either you rule out those without the means, or you pay a salary, and travel.


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## Glen Cook (Feb 19, 2017)

Brother JC said:


> No, your dues would be similar, they'd just go to the UGLA instead of your province (state). Dues would also be the same nationwide.


Not necessarily. Subs in East Lancs are different than Cheshire


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## Warrior1256 (Feb 20, 2017)

Glen Cook said:


> I am a member of a national GL. It offers no inherent benefits.
> 
> You would have one more layer between you and GL; you would be that much more detached from the decision making process.
> 
> ...


Excellent points!


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## Brother JC (Feb 20, 2017)

Glen Cook said:


> Not necessarily. Subs in East Lancs are different than Cheshire


Yes, I realized I misspoke after the conversation had moved on. My sub for an East Lanc lodge this year was £80, no idea what other lodge's paid.


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## Glen Cook (Feb 20, 2017)

Brother JC said:


> Yes, I realized I misspoke after the conversation had moved on. My sub for an East Lanc lodge this year was £80, no idea what other lodge's paid.


Move on?  Oh, I can not only beat the dead horse, but stuff it and put it on a stand for admits.


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## Brother JC (Feb 20, 2017)

I didn't mean it that way, Glen, I just meant it seemed counterproductive to go back and recant.
It does bring up a question; does UGLE have "per capita?" My subscription is just a number with no breakdown.


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## Warrior1256 (Feb 20, 2017)

Glen Cook said:


> Oh, I can not only beat the dead horse, but stuff it and put it on a stand for admits.


Lol!


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## Glen Cook (Feb 20, 2017)

Brother JC said:


> I didn't mean it that way, Glen, I just meant it seemed counterproductive to go back and recant.
> It does bring up a question; does UGLE have "per capita?" My subscription is just a number with no breakdown.


A (poor) attempt at a joke. 

http://www.freemasonrytoday.com/ugle-sgc/ugle/report-of-the-board-of-general-purposes-10-june-2015


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## Ripcord22A (Feb 20, 2017)

Subscription?

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## Glen Cook (Feb 20, 2017)

Ripcord22A said:


> Subscription?
> 
> Sent from my LG-H918 using My Freemasonry mobile app


Dues. We charge more for the big words


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## Brother JC (Feb 20, 2017)

Glen Cook said:


> Dues. We charge more for the big words


My UGLE lodge is actually cheaper than regular dues in either of my US lodges. But it does sound like it should cost more.


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## Bloke (Feb 20, 2017)

Brother JC said:


> My UGLE lodge is actually cheaper than regular dues in either of my US lodges. But it does sound like it should cost more.


A "country" or other discounted membership perhaps ?


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## Glen Cook (Feb 20, 2017)

Brother JC said:


> My UGLE lodge is actually cheaper than regular dues in either of my US lodges. But it does sound like it should cost more.


Amounts?


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## Brother JC (Feb 20, 2017)

300, 240, and approximately 100.


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