# Blue Lodge Dues



## Brother Mark (Apr 7, 2012)

Hey 
I am wondering how high is to high for blue lodge dues? I was a member of a lodge that is now considering 200 for blue lodge dues. To me that is way to high.


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## BryanMaloney (Apr 7, 2012)

$200/month sounds pretty steep.
$200/year is petty cash.


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## JJones (Apr 7, 2012)

$200 bucks a year comes out to $16 bucks a month, which is far less than most people spend on luxuries such as cable or satellite.  If someone can't afford it (I'd have a hard time justifying it ATM) that's one thing, but if someone can justify spending $50 a month on some superfluity but not $16 a month on lodge then I'd tell them just to stay home and watch TV.


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## Brother Mark (Apr 8, 2012)

True. I told them that I don't believe raising dues is the right thing to do, they need to control their spending. Their budget for this year is 45k.


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## Ashton Lawson (Apr 8, 2012)

Lodge dues are too cheap. I think they should be at least $50 per month. We don't take care of our lodges because dues are so low...

My $0.02


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## BryanMaloney (Apr 8, 2012)

No more than 45k? I wonder how many other groups that meet regularly on their own property can keep things that low? I'm not joking. Like I said, $200/year is petty cash.


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## jwhoff (Apr 8, 2012)

... :001_rolleyes:

I'm trying to think of anything else I spend less than $200 a year for.

You know ... something that *really / or really does not* mean so much to me.


:glare:


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## TexasMason73 (Apr 8, 2012)

Currently working thru EA, I haven't gotten to the point of being a due paying brother but I do currently throw on average $50.00 per month in the Kitty jar at the premeeting lunch. I would gladly pay $500.00 per year in dues as a MM.


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## Mac (Apr 8, 2012)

I definitely think dues are too low.  As a college student, though, I think I would find it difficult to have $200 set aside for just Freemasonry at the end of December (after buying all those Christmas gifts, etc).  If we were to increase dues to a level where they actually helped, I would hope that a payment plan would be an option.


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## Brother Mark (Apr 8, 2012)

See guys I am currently an engineering student. 200 or the 300 is out of my budget for just blue lodge dues. On top of the 100 that I owe to the York rite, for their dues. If I wasn't going to college then I would agree that it wouldn't be that much, but as it stands it is. And 45k that is way to much for a yearly budget. I know several  lodges with a budget of 22k.


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## BryanMaloney (Apr 8, 2012)

Freemasonic Fables:Â  And Other Essays on Freemasonry from the Middle Chamber - By Terence Satchell

Just pick what's apropos...


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## TexasAggieOfc1273 (Apr 9, 2012)

We went to $75 this year from $45 in previous years. We knew we needed to raise to accomodate the increase from GL, and we also knew that we could do better to have a little more in the bank. I still think it's a deal. I understand concerns about the costs for people on fixed incomes, like the two students. We don't have any college students in our Lodge, but we have more than a few folks whose sole source of income is social security. 

45k may not or may not be all that much depending on that Lodge's individual circumstances. We own our building, so we have to pay a light, gas, & phone every month. Additionally, our building is an older building, we recently replaced some very large air handlers that nearly broke us.


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## Benton (Apr 9, 2012)

Our dues are at $65.00, I believe, and let me tell you, that is cheaper than any college organization I've been in by a long shot. (Currently still in school.) Most college frats are $150 per school year minimum. (Often times half each semester.) And those are the service organizations. The drinking frats often pay $300.00 a semester or more to afford their keggers etc. 

So yeah, Masonry is a steal. I don't understand why our dues are so incredibly low. I really don't.


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## kyfreemason357 (Apr 9, 2012)

200 is cheap? Buddy I get your reasoning but that is way to high like way way high.


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## BryanMaloney (Apr 9, 2012)

I did a little quick online research from a variety of sources, and what I found was that, when adjusted by Consumer Price Index, historical lodge annual dues were around $65 +/- $13 (95% confidence interval). When adjusted by Consumer Bundle, it came out to $120 +/- $41. Constant dollar dues started fairly low (yes, even for CPI/CB adjustment) in the late 1800s, rose and peaked around the 1930s, and then have fallen, since.


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## Benton (Apr 10, 2012)

My frustration comes in when we can't even cover basic expenses with our dues. It's one thing to have fundraisers to do things like hand out scholarships and other charitable activities. Those things I think are fundraiser worthy. But if you need new carpet, shouldn't you have enough money in the bank from dues to cover something like that? Dues don't have to be extremely high, they just have to be slightly higher than necessary and the money will accrue over time and be there when you need it, assuming you're a wise spender.


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## KSigMason (Apr 10, 2012)

A few years ago during our Fall District Communication, the Sr. Grand Warden had a list of every Lodge with their initiation fees and annual dues at the establishment of the Lodge, what it is now, and what it should be if it followed inflation.  Comparatively most Lodges around the country have extremely low dues today than what they were in the early 20th century.

The Sr. Grand Warden split us into two groups: one for those under 65, and the other for 65+.  The younger group was more willing to raise dues.  In retrospect, I belong to a college fraternity that charges $300 per semester or $600 per year.

I don't think $200 a year would be too bad and right now my Lodge in Idaho currently sits at $125 a year, but they can fluctuate each year as our By-Laws state our dues are "per capita + $80".


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## Brother Mark (Apr 10, 2012)

I hear ya Benton. When I hear the money report, and we are running a negative balance. I get upset and wonder where our money from dues went.


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## Benton (Apr 10, 2012)

Yeah, I can see how if you're retired and having health problems, $200 would be a lot. But for the average person, its not that much. I think of how much money I blow on fast food or coffee that I could make/brew myself, and all I would have to do is be wiser with how I spend to make up the financial district. And I bet most of us, if we're truly honest with ourselves, are the same way.

I'd be willing to pay $100 annually easily. That'd give my lodge an extra $35 it didn't have before. Since we need new light fixtures soon, wouldn't it be nice to be able to just take that money from the bank account instead of worrying where it would come from? I bet an extra $35 from everyone in the lodge would easily cover the cost of replacing all the lights in the building. It's things like that I'm talking about.


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## JJones (Apr 10, 2012)

It's all about what Freemasonry is worth to you.  I often find that if a brother doesn't feel he's getting his due's worth already then there's no justification in raising dues and, to be fair, there's plenty of lodges that don't offer much for their membership.

It's already been pointed out that dues used to be much higher and still would be if inflation was accounted for.  I personally believe that dues should be high enough to cover the lodge's operating cost at least and the constant need for us to fry fish and sell BBQ just to keep our doors open a bit disgraceful.  If our dues aren't high enough to keep the lodge in operation, then we quickly find most or efforts geared towards raising money instead of obtaining more light.


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## BryanMaloney (Apr 10, 2012)

"Why, dues were $20.00 when I joined 60 years ago, and they got no reason to change! That's what's wrong with this country, people let things change! I remember in my day, back in 19-tickety-seven--we had to say 'tickety' because the Kaiser had stolen all our FIVES! I went down to the drugstore, wearing an onion on my belt, which was the fashion of the day. And there it was, plain as day. So, you see. That's my whole point."


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## TexasMason73 (Apr 10, 2012)

Two options here. $100.00 per year in dues or a one time payment of $500.00 to become an endowed member. That is where we currently stand.


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## owls84 (Apr 10, 2012)

Perhaps someone may want to look at the possibility of a resolution that would allow a member on a fixed income (SSN, retired, out of work) to pay the minimum GL amount and the rest of the members pay a different amount such as the $200. I know for the Lodges I was a member we would pay dues for anyone that told us they were on hard times. Too often members won't even tell you. I know there is nothing that would allow some members pay one fee and others pay another.  You could go as far as saying the member must have 25 years of continual service to qualify for the exemption. Every secretary could get this information with their database. Brainstorming out loud.


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## JJones (Apr 10, 2012)

Our lodge has options for brothers on fixed income in our guidelines, but it's mostly just for older brethren.

The problem with raising dues is you almost -have- to increase the price for endowed membership or it'll start looking far more appealing than continuously paying your dues yearly.  Don't lodges usually end up losing money from endowed members or have returns become strong and stable enough?


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## Bro_Vick (Apr 10, 2012)

JJones said:


> Our lodge has options for brothers on fixed income in our guidelines, but it's mostly just for older brethren.
> 
> The problem with raising dues is you almost -have- to increase the price for endowed membership or it'll start looking far more appealing than continuously paying your dues yearly.  Don't lodges usually end up losing money from endowed members or have returns become strong and stable enough?



Lodges had lifetime memberships before the endowed memberships.  My mother lodge had it so you would pay 20 years worth of dues to "lock in a rate" then after 20 you didn't have to pay any more, and you had the same rate.  When lodges stopped inreasing dues regularly, this became unappealing.  After the endowment started became extinct

S&F,
-Bro Vick.


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## jimmy (Apr 15, 2012)

$83 a year 

Lodge budget around $5000


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## cemab4y (Jun 13, 2012)

I pay $65 for my KY lodge, and $85 for my Mass lodge. I feel that dues are way too LOW, and should be increased annually. I have seen proposals, like going back to 1925, and multiplying for inflation. That would make my KY lodge dues about $400 per year. 

My KY lodge is able to operate, pay all its bills, and show a slight surplus. (They have some additional income, such as a CD, and some rental payments made by the appendant bodies). If an unexpected expense crops up, like a new carpet, or a new water heater, the lodge will throw a fund-raiser.


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## Ashlar (Jun 14, 2012)

A lodge should never throw a fundraiser to make repairs to their building . My lodge needed to remodel our old building and all money came from the members by donations out of their own pockets . Look at it this way , would you throw a fundraiser to replace the hot water heater in your home , or replace the roof on your house ? No you would not , your home belongs to you and you should pay for it yourself . Same with your lodge , it belongs to all the members and when we needed to make the necessary repairs , the Craft wrote the checks . If a lodge's dues are not high enough to cover any repairs or a remodel , then the brethren should be writing the checks . IF the members can not afford to do that , then maybe they do not need a lodge building since they can not afford to take care of it themselves .

We should not be relying on money from the community to make repairs or remodeling our lodges .


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## Cigarzan (Jun 15, 2012)

I spend more than $200/month on cokes! That's gotta go. Boom, lodge dues taken care of!


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## Brent Heilman (Jun 15, 2012)

Ashlar said:


> A lodge should never throw a fundraiser to make repairs to their building . My lodge needed to remodel our old building and all money came from the members by donations out of their own pockets . Look at it this way , would you throw a fundraiser to replace the hot water heater in your home , or replace the roof on your house ? No you would not , your home belongs to you and you should pay for it yourself . Same with your lodge , it belongs to all the members and when we needed to make the necessary repairs , the Craft wrote the checks . If a lodge's dues are not high enough to cover any repairs or a remodel , then the brethren should be writing the checks . IF the members can not afford to do that , then maybe they do not need a lodge building since they can not afford to take care of it themselves .
> 
> We should not be relying on money from the community to make repairs or remodeling our lodges .


 
Well said. I firmly believe that the purpose of public fundraisers is for the sole purpose of benefiting the public. Your analogy is spot on. My Lodge would never consider (at least I hope) a fundraiser for our benefit.


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## Benton (Jun 15, 2012)

Absolutely agree as well regarding fundraisers and public benefit. I only wish everyone shared that attitude.


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## cemab4y (Jun 15, 2012)

I am in agreement, that lodges should "stand on their own". I would like for my lodge dues to INCREASE, so that we would have enough in our treasury, to pay our expenses, and have a "rainy day fund" to cover unexpected costs (new water heater, new carpet,etc. ). 

On the other hand, I have no problem at all, with "fund-raisers" ,fish-fries, pancake breakfasts, etc. They are enjoyable for the lodge, and it gets us out into the "public eye". We generate good will in the community, and even pick up some petitions. For many people, a fund-raiser is the only time they will ever be in a Masonic lodge, and it will be the only contact they ever have with Masonry. The point I am trying to make, is that there are non-cash benefits to fund-raisers. 

Non-profit organizations, have traditionally held events to obtain donations from the community, so that the non-profit can continue to operate, and provide services back to the community. Definetly a win-win situation for all concerned. 

I know of a lodge in KY, which needed a new air-conditioning system. The lodge decided to dedicate a memorial plaque in their entrance hall. Anyone who donated $50-$100 (or more) will have their name engraved on a brass plate on the plaque. The lodge received enough donations (almost all from members of the lodge, and surrounding area lodges), to purchase the new air-conditioning.


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## Ashlar (Jun 16, 2012)

cemab4y said:


> On the other hand, I have no problem at all, with "fund-raisers" ,fish-fries, pancake breakfasts, etc. They are enjoyable for the lodge, and it gets us out into the "public eye".
> 
> .


 
I do have a problem with them , I do not find them enjoyable because as a long standing officer and active member in my mother lodge , it is the same members working every function , and I am one of them . I am tired of working every function coming and going , watching the other brethren come in , eat and leave or not show up at all . 

Yes many non-profits throw fundraisers to cover operating costs , but most all of these are service organizations (Lion's club , Red Cross , Salvation Army , etc; etc . Freemasonry is not a service organization . We are a group of men who's members just so happen to charitable .


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## chrmc (Jun 16, 2012)

Ashlar said:


> A lodge should never throw a fundraiser to make repairs to their building . My lodge needed to remodel our old building and all money came from the members by donations out of their own pockets . Look at it this way , would you throw a fundraiser to replace the hot water heater in your home , or replace the roof on your house ? No you would not , your home belongs to you and you should pay for it yourself . Same with your lodge , it belongs to all the members and when we needed to make the necessary repairs , the Craft wrote the checks . If a lodge's dues are not high enough to cover any repairs or a remodel , then the brethren should be writing the checks . IF the members can not afford to do that , then maybe they do not need a lodge building since they can not afford to take care of it themselves .
> 
> We should not be relying on money from the community to make repairs or remodeling our lodges .



I do see your point, and agree with it to a certain extent, but think it is viewing it a little simplistic. 
I do not have a problem with a lodge doing a fundraiser to repair the roof, help the lodge economy etc. As I see it that is the communities way of helping the lodge, so we can give back to them. Many of the activities we undertake do not necessarily cost money, but they do cost time for the members and benefit the community.  If the lodge was not there these charities would not be undertaken. 

And on another note very much agree that it's a shame when we see that it's the same 10-20 brothers that help out with activities each time. How to get more brothers involved in charities, fundraisers and lodge activities could be a good topic for another discussion.


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## Ashlar (Jun 16, 2012)

I am sorry , but it is not the communities responsibility to help pay our bills , make repairs etc; etc; just so we can help them out with our own charities . It is counter productive , we are taking their money so we can give them money , it just does not make sense to me . And if many projects do not cost money , then no fundraisers are needed , we are not paying our members to help the communities , it is supposed to be out of the goodness of our hearts .

Again , we are not a service organization , our charity is a product of being a Mason , it is not our sole purpose .


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## Ashlar (Jun 16, 2012)

Okay , I am sorry for my posts BUT because of my second lodge I have a different mind set . When we make repairs or give to charities , all monies comes from the members by "passing the hat" . We do not believe in taking money from the community to help the community or the lodge . We take the stand that if we as a lodge want to help the community , then it should be up to the individual Mason by making a donation themselves to what ever cause it is , and we have some who write some big checks . I give what I can on my limited budget , but I perform my charities in other ways .


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## SeeKer.mm (Jun 16, 2012)

We just moved into a new lodge building.  The building needed painting.  One older brother who was physically unable to work actually donate the paint and the supplies, and some of us other brothers donated a small amount each to get supplies also.  We worked every Saturday morning and I found that it was a lot of the same brothers who donated their time and efforts, myself being one of them.  We needed some more help than the small group that showed up each Saturday so we decided hey, lets make it a cookout...you want a burger?  Grab a paint brush!  Heck it worked! The lodge building now has a nice fresh coat of paint and the lodge did it on it's own.  I know this concept can be debated but for one, I believe in the beehive concept of the lodge and the fraternity at large.  We should all work together within our due bounds as Masons in order to give back.  Fundraising for a charity or service group is certainly acceptable but fundraising for the lodge, in my opinion, makes it way too easy for brothers to become uninvolved in the well being of the lodge...it supports the whole "Hey the guys did a fundraiser so I am off the hook" mentality I think...charity is not all about money my Brothers.  Time, effort and skill are sometimes more valuable than people think.


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## Ashlar (Jun 16, 2012)

Ashlar said:


> Okay , I am sorry for my posts BUT because of my second lodge I have a different mind set . When we make repairs or give to charities , all monies comes from the members by "passing the hat" . We do not believe in taking money from the community to help the community or the lodge . We take the stand that if we as a lodge want to help the community , then it should be up to the individual Mason by making a donation themselves to what ever cause it is , and we have some who write some big checks . I give what I can on my limited budget , but I perform my charities in other ways .


 

Sorry to quote myself , but is it not we as Masons who are the men who are supposed to be charitable ? IF we are throwing fundraisers and taking the money of non-Masons to help with our own projects , then is it not the non-Masons who are the men and women being charitable ? Other than our time and energy , Are we not merely acting as the middle man in all this ? Now , if we are throwing a fundraiser and the brethren (and not from lodge funds) say they will match what is brought in from the community , then that is another story but ...... 

I am sorry , it just does not compute with me . We can not say we are being charitable when it is funds from non-Masons who are funding our charities . This is why my second lodge thinks the way it does .

Now , do not think I am anti-fundraising , if the Red Cross asked us (or we took it upon ourselves) to hold a fundraiser to raise funds for some natural disaster , then by all means , throw a fundraiser . If it is for some other outside (true) service org , then go for it , but I just do not think it is right to use outside , non-mason , money for a lodge charity .


A little story to prove my point , my mother lodge took it upon themselves to raise money for a church who needed to make repairs to their church . We threw a fundraising dinner . Over a thousand dollars was raised . Great , huh? Well only a couple of hundred came from the lodge members (we would have made more by passing the hat at our stated meeting and much of that paid for the food) , the rest came from the church members themselves . They could have given that money they "donated" to us directly to the church , and we could have passed the hat and it would have saved us both a lot of time .


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## Ashlar (Jun 16, 2012)

My apologies for veering so far off topic . I can get passionate about certain subjects and fundraisers/charities are one of those subjects .

And all this is merely my opinion , I realize others think differently and more power to them , we are all brothers .


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## chrmc (Jun 16, 2012)

Ashlar said:


> I am sorry , but it is not the communities responsibility to help pay our bills , make repairs etc; etc; just so we can help them out with our own charities . It is counter productive , we are taking their money so we can give them money , it just does not make sense to me . And if many projects do not cost money , then no fundraisers are needed , we are not paying our members to help the communities , it is supposed to be out of the goodness of our hearts .
> 
> Again , we are not a service organization , our charity is a product of being a Mason , it is not our sole purpose .


.

I just think I have a very different opinion on fundraisers in the community than you do. We are not taking their money like a thief in the night. Just as our work helps us support them and does good, their support to us via fundraisers help us in various ways. It's a two way street. And the whole nature of fundraising means that it is voluntary to contribute. We are not forcing anyone. 

I don't think you can find many organizations that do not use fundraising to support their operating expenses. Red cross, World Wildlife foundations, Shriners hospital etc. all use some of the money they get to pay the rent, fix holes in roofs and do similar good things. How is that different from the blue lodge?

I will agree that we need to be open and honest about what we are doing though. Having a fundraiser where we say the money is going to the needy, and then spending 90% of it on the lodge is not upright. But in my experience that is not what is happening either.


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## JJones (Jun 16, 2012)

I think the point is that fundraisers generally consist of a small amount of brethren doing a lot of work just to turn around and donate the money back to the community or give to charity.

I also agree that the state of our building shouldn't be a financial burden on the community.  If something needs fixed, the lodge should pay for it (or brethren should make appropriate donations).  If the lodge can't afford it then it's the responsibility of the lodge members to donate what they can or be willing to pay higher dues.

Our lodge raises money by selling barbecue twice a year.  We usually have about twenty briskets that are donated by a minority of lodge members and it's usually the same members each year who are cooking, chopping, and selling it when the time comes.  Why should ten out of eighty members shoulder all the burden?  By the time brethren donate the brisket and take time off from work to cook, chop, and sell we could have just raised dues.


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## Ashlar (Jun 17, 2012)

Exactly , on all counts .

My apologies if I offended anyone , but I did not become a Mason to work fundraisers to pay for the running and making repairs to the lodge . This is why we pay dues .


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## jwhoff (Jun 17, 2012)

I took brother Martin's post is a somewhat different light.  

Though it is a shame that fundraisers, for a lack of a better term, have to be done to pay such costs as new AC units, carpet,_ et al_, it should be noted that the same few members of the lodge always end up carrying the burden.  Whether that number be 15 or 80 of 200 plus members.  Higher dues would go more toward such projects.

I am going into the East at one of my lodges in July.  I fully expect that I will, at some point, be required to ask the brethren for extra monies to cover out of the ordinary expenses.  It is a sign of the times.


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## anthonywilson (Jun 18, 2012)

Ashlar said:


> Exactly , on all counts .
> 
> My apologies if I offended anyone , but I did not become a Mason to work fundraisers to pay for the running and making repairs to the lodge . This is why we pay dues .


 
Say it brother!!!!!! Our dues might being going up $50 ($100 to $150) this coming year and my view is "ok, don't know why because our outgoing WM came in under budget." However, if they do, then the fundraisers need to stop. There are brothers who can't pay their dues and are only $1-$2 in the kitty at dinner time; but we're passing the hat for donations so an event can be funded. -_-


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