# Free born vs Slavery



## pha (Oct 8, 2009)

Good to be able to post again, been very busy, in an effort to help some of our Brother's with the age old problem of Prince Hall Mason's not being free born, if we will recall during the Slavery era many a Child was born to Enslaved parent's, but that child was born FREE, he or she had to be taught to be a Slave, made to believe and to realize by their surrounding's that they were inferior, no one is born anything except what they are by gentic's ..ie color, ethnicity, height, we are taught to be what ever we turn out to be, weather it be by force, parent's choice or circumstance or surrounding, and by the way the African American is not the only race of people to suffer such misfortune (by the way I am African American) there have been other race's that suffered injustice's, People  (Brothers) like us that are a part of this GREAT FORUM WILL SHAPE OUR NEXT GENERATION, let us not take this obligation Lightly, *Brother* *Blake* may not know it just yet but let me be one of the first to say that he is on the CUTTING EDGE of that Change


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## owls84 (Oct 8, 2009)

This is a great topic. I have personally argued this same topic with uneducated members. My response to confusing slavery with free born was, "through out time most, if not, all of the cultures have been a slave as some point in history. Why whould you single out one period in history without going all the way throughout history?" That pretty much shot down the persons arguement. 

Great topic!!!


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## TCShelton (Oct 8, 2009)

Thanks for that PHA.  I've had that talk as well.  The list does go on.  Jews were held by the Egyptions, Saxons were bondsmen to the Normans, conquered Germanic tribes to the Romans, etc.


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## TCShelton (Oct 8, 2009)

And PHA, Brothers like you being a part of this forum is what allows it to be on the cutting edge.  Thanks for being here and being an active poster.  We need more like you on here, that is for sure.eace:


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## Wingnut (Oct 8, 2009)

Welcome back and great post!  Times are changing just not as fast as most of us would like.  I would respectfully make the argument however that, at least in the south during the times of slavery, children born of slaves were considered slaves and were treated as such.


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## TCShelton (Oct 8, 2009)

..And we forgot about the concept of serfdom, which was prevalent in fuedal society back in the Middle Ages.  I daresay most of us fall into that category, and serfs most definitely were bondsmen.


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## Sirius (Oct 8, 2009)

To me this is a code. If you here someone say you're not freeborn because you're descended from slaves, look out.


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## rhitland (Oct 8, 2009)

It is all in our minds. Great post and it cannot be said enough, God does not make slaves, men do so no one is created a slave they can only be made one.


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## Wingnut (Oct 8, 2009)

freeÂ·born
Pronunciation: \ˈfrē-ˈbȯrn\
Function: adjective
Date: 13th century

1 : not born in vassalage or slavery
2 : of, relating to, or befitting one that is freeborn

the last known slave died in 1979 at 137 years old and slavery ended on Dec 6, 1865 (officially).  Saying a man is not freeborn because his great great grandfather may have been a slave is, without any doubt, bastardizing a word to suit the racist motives of the person doing so.


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## TCShelton (Oct 8, 2009)

Wingnut said:


> Saying a man is not freeborn because his great great grandfather may have been a slave is, without any doubt, bastardizing a word to suit the racist motives of the person doing so.



+1.


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## Blake Bowden (Oct 8, 2009)

TCShelton said:


> And PHA, Brothers like you being a part of this forum is what allows it to be on the cutting edge.  Thanks for being here and being an active poster.  We need more like you on here, that is for sure.eace:



Amen!


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## HKTidwell (Oct 8, 2009)

Wingnut said:


> freeÂ·born
> Pronunciation: \ˈfrē-ˈbȯrn\
> Function: adjective
> Date: 13th century
> ...



I would like to point out that slavery is still present in today's world society.  Even in the US you hear of criminal cases involving it, while they are limited and happen only once every 5-10 years it still occurs.   In other areas of the world slavery is alive and well.  This behavior should be abhorred and made into extinction, but it is a disease that is still in existence.

This is not in reference to the bastardizing of the word.  I was more just commenting on the fact that this practice is still in existence.


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## Sirius (Oct 8, 2009)

HKTidwell said:


> I would like to point out that slavery is still present in today's world society.  Even in the US you hear of criminal cases involving it, while they are limited and happen only once every 5-10 years it still occurs.



I think they are more common. Except they don't call is slavery, they call it kidnapping. Think about that girl who was taken at age 8(?) and they recently found her at almost 30 with two kids by the guy that took her. She was his slave. Not to mention all of the girls brought in the US for forced prostitution. Those  poor girls are slaves too.


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## HKTidwell (Oct 8, 2009)

Sirius said:


> I think they are more common. Except they don't call is slavery, they call it kidnapping. Think about that girl who was taken at age 8(?) and they recently found her at almost 30 with two kids by the guy that took her. She was his slave. Not to mention all of the girls brought in the US for forced prostitution. Those  poor girls are slaves too.



You are probably right I was pulling times out of the air and had not even thought about that case.


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## JTM (Oct 8, 2009)

lol, i'm glad you made this post.  people are so skittish around "sensitive" subjects like this, and that leads to an overall distrust towards each other.  keeping it out in the open like this is a much better way to deal with it.  This subject needs more light, in my opinion.

i think I could like this guy.


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## Wingnut (Oct 8, 2009)

Very true comments, I was however keeping it restricted to what I thought the original post was referring too:  using the word freeborn as a reason that a man of color can not be made a mason.


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## pha (Oct 16, 2009)

First LET ME  thank every brother for their comment's, I can not explain the feeling I get from this great fraternal order of ours, thanks for the nomination of my post, But be reminded that only the freedom that this forum promotes inspired my thought's and provided me the opportunity to share them, I thank you all and continually look forward to being a part of the MASONS OF TEXAS.


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## RedTemplar (Oct 17, 2009)

IMHO, this subject along with many others is why Freemasonry will continue to exist and flourish. As long as time lasts and man has personal and societal challenges, Freemasonry will be there to fill the voids.


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## scottmh59 (Oct 18, 2009)

tcshelton said:


> and pha, brothers like you being a part of this forum is what allows it to be on the cutting edge.  Thanks for being here and being an active poster.  We need more like you on here, that is for sure.eace:



+2:17:


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## Scotty32 (Oct 18, 2009)

Thanks pha.
 I am going to use that to read one night.


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## Hippie19950 (Oct 18, 2009)

Most people we think of, and know are in today's world/words freeborn. In my travels around this Country, I find some people who try to keep a form of slavery intact. I have worked for those who will order you as though they own you, and sometimes your family. They will pay wages only of enough for you to get by, but to the point you will have to borrow against future wages hence keeping you indebted to them. Many feel obligated, and will not leave that employment, knowing they have an obligation to repay it. They also know the one employer will try to cause trouble with another employer, or get them to take the money from the wages to pay the last debt, again putting them in debt to the current employer. Fortunately I have not fallen into this, but have helped others out of it, and been chastised for it. This does not seem to be anything in the larger cities with larger employers, but I have seen it in the smaller rural communities, where slavery was once a very organized form of life. Though the current employers were not owners of the past, these principles have been passed down from older generations. As a Law Man, I had to investigate some assaults in the past that were a "payment" for money owed by the husband... It is sickening to see this happen, and worse when you try to prosecute the case. I could go on for a while, but it still goes back to the days slaves were held, and traded/sold. I feel it is a time past, and needs to go away...


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## pha (Oct 26, 2009)

Thank everyone for the Nomination, I feel all warm and Cozy (In a masonic way guy's), this forum is inhabited by pure-de Masonic Brother's


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## Gerald.Harris (Oct 27, 2009)

This is a subject that has always bothered me, not on a racial basis, but just on the grounds that slavery of any kind has no place in the country that most of us live in or in the entire world for that matter. I am thankful to all of you for voicing your opinions and discussing the tough issues. I am glad to say that I feel our fraternity is still responsible, and always will be for the propagation of ideas of what is right for mankind.


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