# Inter-visitation Procedure



## Blake Bowden (Sep 1, 2016)

Say a member of the Grand Lodge of Texas A.F. & A.M. wants to visit a Prince Hall Lodge in Texas, which is under the jurisdiction of the Prince Hall Grand Lodge of Texas, what would they need to do?


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## Bill Lins (Sep 1, 2016)

I'll email the packet to you. Basically, the Brother(s) who wish to visit send an application to their Grand Secretary, who forwards it to the other Grand Secretary, who forwards it to the Lodge to be visited. They vote upon the application at a stated meeting, and send the app, either approved or disapproved, back to their GS, who sends it to the other GS, who sends it back to the applicant(s).


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## Bloke (Sep 2, 2016)

Bill_Lins77488 said:


> I'll email the packet to you. Basically, the Brother(s) who wish to visit send an application to their Grand Secretary, who forwards it to the other Grand Secretary, who forwards it to the Lodge to be visited. They vote upon the application at a stated meeting, and send the app, either approved or disapproved, back to their GS, who sends it to the other GS, who sends it back to the applicant(s).


That's very clunky....


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## Ripcord22A (Sep 2, 2016)

Not being a texas mason I cant say for sure but id bet that process came from the PH side.  I say this because i have a buddy whose PH and I invited him to my Lodge and he told me he would have to contact his worshipful master and make sure it was okay that he visited another Lodge. Even though he knows that New Mexico recognizes New York Prince Hall and vice versa. I could be Way Off the Mark though and it could be the Grand Lodge of Texas who wanted that extra four steps

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## Bill Lins (Sep 2, 2016)

I'm not sure who is to blame for it, but I don't think the word "clunky" is nearly strong enough to describe our convoluted procedure. Of course, my opinion plus about $2.00 will get you a cup of coffee @ most places around here.


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## Bloke (Sep 2, 2016)

Bill_Lins77488 said:


> I'm not sure who is to blame for it, but I don't think the word "clunky" is nearly strong enough to describe our convoluted procedure. Of course, my opinion plus about $2.00 will get you a cup of coffee @ most places around here.



So, there's the question Bill, does the procedure apply to all Masons visiting from a foreign GL - or just to Texan Prince Hall Freemasons ?


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## MRichard (Sep 2, 2016)

jdmadsenCraterlake211 said:


> Not being a texas mason I cant say for sure but id bet that process came from the PH side.  I say this because i have a buddy whose PH and I invited him to my Lodge and he told me he would have to contact his worshipful master and make sure it was okay that he visited another Lodge. Even though he knows that New Mexico recognizes New York Prince Hall and vice versa. I could be Way Off the Mark though and it could be the Grand Lodge of Texas who wanted that extra four steps
> 
> Sent from my LG-H811 using My Freemasonry Pro mobile app



Trust me, it was mutual if the PHA side wanted it. Inter-visitation is also at the discretion of the WM. Most of the lodges under the GLOT have never had a Black member. It is slowly changing.


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## Bill Lins (Sep 3, 2016)

Bloke said:


> So, there's the question Bill, does the procedure apply to all Masons visiting from a foreign GL - or just to Texan Prince Hall Freemasons ?


Prince Hall Masons (Texas & Maryland) only- hence, my aggravation. IMHO, all Masons visiting from other recognized jurisdictions should be treated equally, but remember what I posted earlier about coffee.


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## Bloke (Sep 3, 2016)

Bill_Lins77488 said:


> Prince Hall Masons (Texas & Maryland) only- hence, my aggravation. IMHO, all Masons visiting from other recognized jurisdictions should be treated equally, but remember what I posted earlier about coffee.


I agree... you would have to think it is an effort to keep the two groups apart.. which is probably nothing to do with "race" and all about GLs preserving their power... yes, I am a remember of our GL - but does not mean I trust them to be wise or just .. mind you, when I read of some of the shenanigans which go on on GLs in the States, espe what GMs get up (Haas etc) I realise how lucky I am to be part of UGLV. The irony is, the better you now the other local jurisdiction, the better you are proving them...


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## Ripcord22A (Sep 3, 2016)

Bill_Lins77488 said:


> Prince Hall Masons (Texas & Maryland) only- hence, my aggravation. IMHO, all Masons visiting from other recognized jurisdictions should be treated equally, but remember what I posted earlier about coffee.


Since you guys recognize texas PH do you also recognize all other PH that have local recognition?  And if so lets say a NM PHA from Las Cruces wants to vist a el paso lodge....he doesnt have to go through all that shenanigans?

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## Bill Lins (Sep 3, 2016)

As I stated earlier, to date GLoTX *ONLY* recognizes the PHGLs of Texas & Maryland. Until & unless the PHGL of NM applies for & receives recognition from GLoTX, their members may NOT visit our Lodges. Should they become recognized and our GL maintains the same policy it has with the currently-recognized PHGLs, their members WILL have to follow the same procedure for visitation.


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## Bloke (Sep 3, 2016)

Bill_Lins77488 said:


> As I stated earlier, to date GLoTX *ONLY* recognizes the PHGLs of Texas & Maryland. Until & unless the PHGL of NM applies for & receives recognition from GLoTX, their members may NOT visit our Lodges. Should they become recognized and our GL maintains the same policy it has with the currently-recognized PHGLs, their members WILL have to follow the same procedure for visitation.



Thanks for the clarification...


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## Ripcord22A (Sep 3, 2016)

Bill_Lins77488 said:


> As I stated earlier, to date GLoTX *ONLY* recognizes the PHGLs of Texas & Maryland. Until & unless the PHGL of NM applies for & receives recognition from GLoTX, their members may NOT visit our Lodges. Should they become recognized and our GL maintains the same policy it has with the currently-recognized PHGLs, their members WILL have to follow the same procedure for visitation.


Oh ok...i thought you were saying that only texas and MD pha had to do that...not that they were the only ones you recognized...

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## MRichard (Sep 4, 2016)

It's probably much easier to visit the PHA grand lodge in Maryland. @Bill_Lins77488 Or is it the same process, Brother Bill?


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## Bill Lins (Sep 4, 2016)

MRichard said:


> It's probably much easier to visit the PHA grand lodge in Maryland. @Bill_Lins77488 Or is it the same process, Brother Bill?


You know, no one has ever said if we'd have to do that stuff for a visit to a Grand Lodge- the paperwork only refers to visiting a blue Lodge.


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## Bloke (Sep 4, 2016)

Bill_Lins77488 said:


> You know, no one has ever said if we'd have to do that stuff for a visit to a Grand Lodge- the paperwork only refers to visiting a blue Lodge.


Loop hole ?   take lots of pictures and lots of brothers !


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## Plustax (Jan 30, 2018)

Since inter-visitation is now permitted is there a process that must be followed?


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## Christopher Thompson (Jan 30, 2018)

Plustax said:


> Since inter-visitation is now permitted is there a process that must be followed?


All that needs to be done now is to bring your current dues card and you should be good to go. This goes for both GLofTX and MWPHGLoTX.  IMO this is how it should be across the US but one small victory at a time


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## Bill Lins (Jan 30, 2018)

Plustax said:


> Since inter-visitation is now permitted is there a process that must be followed?


What we have been told is that we are to directly contact the Lodge we wish to visit instead of going through Grand Lodges.


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## dfreybur (Jan 31, 2018)

Bill Lins said:


> What we have been told is that we are to directly contact the Lodge we wish to visit instead of going through Grand Lodges.



Which is exactly how it works with any other jurisdiction.

There is one major caveat.  It's trivial to look up which lodges are in your area, but only if you are aware of some methods to check recognition.  There are plenty of men who have no idea how to tell truth from fiction on the Internet.  It may be trivial to look up a local lodge once you know how, but learning how is not trivial.

Since a lot of clandestine jurisdictions exist, it can range from trivial to impossible for any one Brother to tell which ones are the regular and recognized ones.

https://grandlodgeoftexas.org/lodge-locator/
https://www.mwphglotx.org/about/affiliated-lodges/

It would be very nice if every jurisdiction had a recognition list on its web page so members can start at their own jurisdiction and go to the correct web sites from there.  Doing that would have fewer errors than going through the Conferences of Grand Masters and Committees on Recognition.  Doing that would also have a lower error rate than starting at the United Grand Lodge of England.  http://www.ugle.org.uk/about/foreign-grand-lodges

I combine the methods I listed plus knowing where to look in some of my jurisdictions.  The combination works better than any one method, but I had to learn how first.


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## Plustax (Feb 3, 2018)

Has anyone done any intervisitation between GLs yet? I'm curious if visiting a PHA if the visitor must wear formal attire? I ask because formal attire is not required in mainstream lodges. Just curious on how things are moving along since the approval has been announced. 

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## Bro. David F. Hill (Feb 3, 2018)

Still awaiting official announcement from your Grand Secretary to Grand Secretary.  Until the official announcement is sent, the old rules will be followed. 

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## Bro. David F. Hill (Feb 3, 2018)

As for attire, that varies. Best suggestion is to just ask. 

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## Plustax (Feb 4, 2018)

I understood that there is no more G Sec to G Sec before visiting. All intervisitation is approved. Did anyone else at GLoT hear something different?

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## Bro. David F. Hill (Feb 4, 2018)

Unofficially that is true but the Grand Lodge of Texas has yet to officially communicate the result of your resolution vote to the Prince Hall Grand Lodge of Texas. Not official until that happens. 

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## Christopher Thompson (Feb 4, 2018)

Plustax said:


> Has anyone done any intervisitation between GLs yet? I'm curious if visiting a PHA if the visitor must wear formal attire? I ask because formal attire is not required in mainstream lodges. Just curious on how things are moving along since the approval has been announced.
> 
> Sent from my LG-H910 using My Freemasonry mobile app


I am in the GLoTx and I recently visited a Prince Hall Lodge. Every lodge in both jurisdictions have their own attire preferences. My lodge Jewel P Lightfoot is a “traditional observance” lodge so we are in suits at every meeting. Some other lodges don’t do that. As for the visitation at the Prince Hall lodge, the agenda was a speaker (Fred Milliken) and the attire was casual. On degree days they are formal.


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## Plustax (Feb 4, 2018)

Christopher Thompson said:


> I am in the GLoTx and I recently visited a Prince Hall Lodge. Every lodge in both jurisdictions have their own attire preferences. My lodge Jewel P Lightfoot is a “traditional observance” lodge so we are in suits at every meeting. Some other lodges don’t do that. As for the visitation at the Prince Hall lodge, the agenda was a speaker (Fred Milliken) and the attire was casual. On degree days they are formal.


Bro Thompson was your visit since January approval or before when you had to go through GL Secretaries..etc?

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## MRichard (Feb 5, 2018)

If you are planning on visiting, you should contact the lodge first. My Bridge Builders group has a visit planned for February 7. I know the JW so he has been assisting us. I had already submitted an approved request and we have additional members who want to go. So it will be a combination of both.


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## MRichard (Feb 8, 2018)

We were able to visit True Square #108 (Houston) of the MWPHGLTX. Great experience. #bridgebuilders


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## tldubb (Feb 10, 2018)

Bill Lins said:


> I'm not sure who is to blame for it, but I don't think the word "clunky" is nearly strong enough to describe our convoluted procedure. Of course, my opinion plus about $2.00 will get you a cup of coffee @ most places around here.



Gotta agree with you Brother Bill, here in PA we just show up. Right Worshipful Grand Lodge of PA and MWPHGL of PA have good relations hopefully the Brethren in Texas could eventually come to same out come as we here in the Keystone state.


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## Bill Lins (Feb 11, 2018)

tldubb said:


> hopefully the Brethren in Texas could eventually come to same out come as we here in the Keystone state.


From your lips to God's ear, my Brother.


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## MRichard (Feb 12, 2018)

tldubb said:


> Gotta agree with you Brother Bill, here in PA we just show up. Right Worshipful Grand Lodge of PA and MWPHGL of PA have good relations hopefully the Brethren in Texas could eventually come to same out come as we here in the Keystone state.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using My Freemasonry mobile app



They actually did simplify the process. No paperwork involved anymore but it is recommended that you contact the lodge first before visiting. But we just need ID and our grand lodge id to visit now.


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## David Duke (Feb 12, 2018)

MRichard said:


> They actually did simplify the process. No paperwork involved anymore but it is recommended that you contact the lodge first before visiting. But we just need ID and our grand lodge id to visit now.



That is what I understood it to be, exactly like visiting any Lodge in another Grand Jurisdiction we are in amity with. I was beginning to think my ears lied to me after reading a few of the posts that seemed to be saying that you still had to jump through hoops. 


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## MRichard (Feb 12, 2018)

David Duke said:


> That is what I understood it to be, exactly like visiting any Lodge in another Grand Jurisdiction we are in amity with. I was beginning to think my ears lied to me after reading a few of the posts that seemed to be saying that you still had to jump through hoops.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using My Freemasonry mobile app



No, you heard right, my Brother.


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## MRichard (Feb 12, 2018)

The only confusion is that the PHA lodges hadn't received anything official from their grand lodge regarding the new protocol. They might have by now. Not sure.


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## Bro. David F. Hill (Feb 12, 2018)

After talking to our Grand Master, the issue is that no one from the Grand Lodge of Texas has notified them of the outcome. That's the correct protocol.

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## MRichard (Feb 12, 2018)

Bro. David F. Hill said:


> After talking to our Grand Master, the issue is that no one from the Grand Lodge of Texas has notified them of the outcome. That's the correct protocol.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G955U using My Freemasonry mobile app



Well, I will email the Grand Secretary's secretary next week to check on it. She's real nice. Hopefully it's resolved before then.


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## Bro. David F. Hill (Feb 12, 2018)

I will be glad when it has been put to bed.


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## dfreybur (Feb 13, 2018)

Bro. David F. Hill said:


> After talking to our Grand Master, the issue is that no one from the Grand Lodge of Texas has notified them of the outcome. That's the correct protocol.



It makes us all feel at home that no matter what the topic, the answer is a stack of paperwork and that ever repeated expression about waiting a time with patience.  Lodge, military, college, office, you name it.  It's a universal that organizations work on paper and coffee.  Or across the pond paper and tea.


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## MRichard (Feb 13, 2018)

Okay, I contacted her and she sent me the Report of the Committee on Fraternal Relations. There is a timeline and it states at the bottom that "this action will not require any change in Grand Lodge Law or the "Amended and Restated Compact" approved by this Grand Lodge in 2014". If you would like a copy, I could email to you.


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## MRichard (Feb 13, 2018)

Or perhaps your grand secretary could request a copy from them. Not sure of the exact protocol.


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## PM. Lewis (Oct 27, 2019)

I’ve just relocated from California and live in downtown Dallas. I’m a PH Mason and would definitely like to learn more about this process so I can fellowship with Brethren. 


Maurice D. Lewis
Past Master 
Good Hope #29 F & AM
MWPHGLCA 
Oakland, CA


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## MRichard (Oct 27, 2019)

PM. Lewis said:


> I’ve just relocated from California and live in downtown Dallas. I’m a PH Mason and would definitely like to learn more about this process so I can fellowship with Brethren.
> 
> 
> Maurice D. Lewis
> ...



If you want to visit the Grand Lodge of Texas, you will probably need to affiliate with a local lodge. The GLOT recognizes the PHA grand lodge in Texas but not California as of yet.


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## PM. Lewis (Nov 3, 2019)

MRichard said:


> If you want to visit the Grand Lodge of Texas, you will probably need to affiliate with a local lodge. The GLOT recognizes the PHA grand lodge in Texas but not California as of yet.



Thanks for the wise counsel!


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