# Islam and Freemasonry



## Jimmy91 (Jun 22, 2016)

Peace to everyone. I am a Muslim Soldier in the United States Army and I'm curious to hear from those with knowledge about this topic. Before I start understand I feel I know the basic foundations of masonry and I highly respect it. Anything I choose to do whether it be a soldier, a Muslim, and father or whatever title I may hold I am deeply committed to being the best I can be as a man trying to strive for goodness in myself and others. I'm here stationed out of Texas and plan to stay after getting out. 
Now down to the question... I see that some lodges they wear crosses, etc. As a Muslim I respect all faiths and religions now would me becoming a Freemason have me contradict or go against my beliefs in forms of maybe rituals, clothing and or events? 
I look to you guys for guidance on this because I am seriously wanting to become apart of this great fraternity and lineage. 
Thank you guys much respect and may peace be upon you. 


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## Bloke (Jun 22, 2016)

Jimmy91 said:


> ...Before I start understand I feel I know the basic foundations of masonry and I highly respect it. Anything I choose to do whether it be a soldier, a Muslim, and father As a Muslim I respect all faiths and religions now would me becoming a Freemason have me contradict or go against my beliefs in forms of maybe rituals, clothing and or events?.....



Thanks for your well wishes.

Short version: there would be nothing in Craft Freemasonry which goes against or contradicts your beliefs.

I cannot speak for Texas specifically, but knowing what i do of lodges there, think it would be fine. I am in Australia, and here, we have Muslim Freemasons of long and respected standing. A few years ago one ably led us 

In terms of Faith, Freemasonry is only interested if you have a belief in a Supreme Being, beyong that, each man's religion is his own affair. Your race or religion, your bank balance or profession are not what matters, what matters is your character and you can afford the fee hundred dollars each year it costs to become and remain a member.

When I became a Freemason, i promised myself if i ever saw something in the rituals i did not like, i would leave, I never did.

At the end of the day, you're not joining sime weird Cult, if it's not for you, you can simply resign.

Please do ask more questions, but joining Freemasonry was one of the best decisions I've made and i recommend it to you.


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## Bloke (Jun 22, 2016)

mustaneer fawad said:


> freemasosn
> 
> freemasosn is the biggest enemy of islam;  islam basic ideology is that muslim are fistincted from the rest of nations / freemasons are zionist / whos fraternity have been made on the lives of million people abd banking system / freemasons are responsible for the 911 / they are responsible for the killing of million of jews / those jews which are poor / freemasons looted africas wealth of diamind / they are believer of false god antichrist / in islam any one who will join this antichrist organization will be non muslim / islam has nothing to do with freemasons / islan only taught us respect of other religion by safeguarding their worshiping places and special rights / when there is islamic state / freemasons are not even jews or christian / they are amalgam of religious o economic system / they ruoe the world economy / these banks are involved in the world wars / socialism freemasons dictatorship /



LOL. You have no idea what you are talking about.


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## coachn (Jun 22, 2016)

(response to troll) You obviously do not belong here.


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## Jimmy91 (Jun 22, 2016)

Being a Muslim I know that's not true and I also understand certain historical events where people would think one sided about things and since they have no real knowledge of freemasonry judge it for something it's not. I'm not ignorant I'm open minded to knowledge and the betterment of men. 


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## Bloke (Jun 22, 2016)

mustaneer fawad said:


> yes  im gonaa kill you mitherfuckers



*sigh*

I don't think we need hate speech on this board and the account mustaneer fawad should be removed.


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## Jimmy91 (Jun 22, 2016)

Agreed I blocked him and reported the content of his message. 


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## Winter (Jun 22, 2016)

Ignoring the moronic troll in the room....

I know a few Muslim Masons and I know of nothing that would conflict with your faith. As for some Lodges using Christian crosses, Craft, or Blue Lodge in the US, is non-sectarian.  Some Lodges may have appendant bodies that are Christian in nature that meet in the same building, but you are not required to participate in those.  

Welcome to the forum and I wish you joy in your journey!

Transmitted via my R5 astromech.


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## coachn (Jun 22, 2016)

User reported and blocked...


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## Jimmy91 (Jun 22, 2016)

Thank you gentleman more than appreciated and wish you all the best as well


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## Winter (Jun 22, 2016)

Please ask questions if you have any.  We are happy to help. Freemasonry is wonderful in that there is no other place you will find Christians, Muslims, and Jews coming together as brothers with no rancor for how the other worships God.  My lodge has members from all three of the major faiths and keeps all three holy books open upon the alter when we meet. We are proof that there can be peace.  

Transmitted via my R5 astromech.


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## Bloke (Jun 22, 2016)

Winter said:


> Please ask questions if you have any.  We are happy to help. Freemasonry is wonderful in that there is no other place you will find Christians, Muslims, and Jews coming together as brothers with no rancor for how the other worships God.  My lodge has members from all three of the major faiths and keeps all three holy books open upon the alter when we meet. We are proof that there can be peace.
> 
> Transmitted via my R5 astromech.



Three ? Nice
We've got Five


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## Winter (Jun 22, 2016)

Bloke said:


> Three ? Nice
> We've got Five


That's great! What are the other two? I'm guessing Bagavad Gita and the Tipitaka. Am I close?

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## Jimmy91 (Jun 22, 2016)

Wow that's great ... So what do you guys think be patient and wait till the meeting day sometime and go speak to someone or could I go speak to someone any day? 


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## Winter (Jun 22, 2016)

There should be contact info for your local Lodge either on their Webpage or the Grand Lodge Web page for Texas.  I recommend reaching out that way.  You can stop by on a meeting night, but you cannot actually attend a meeting without being a member.  If you arrive after the meeting begins there may not be anyone available to meet with you and answer questions.  

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## Jimmy91 (Jun 22, 2016)

Winter said:


> There should be contact info for your local Lodge either on their Webpage or the Grand Lodge Web page for Texas.  I recommend reaching out that way.  You can stop by on a meeting night, but you cannot actually attend a meeting without being a member.  If you arrive after the meeting begins there may not be anyone available to meet with you and answer questions.
> 
> Transmitted via my R5 astromech.



Ok because I didn't know if not coming in person and giving a call first would of been taken the wrong way. Sounds good. Is there anything I should be cautious of? because for say in Islam you have different types of Muslims who practice differently. Now I understand this is not a religion but are there different types of sects in a way? I think you will understand what I'm getting at lol 


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## Bloke (Jun 22, 2016)

Winter said:


> That's great! What are the other two? I'm guessing Bagavad Gita and the Tipitaka. Am I close?
> 
> Transmitted via my R5 astromech.



Indeed.


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## Winter (Jun 22, 2016)

I get what you are saying.  There are as many flavors of Freemasonry as there are Masons. A small rural Lodge out in the country may have a different reaction to a Muslim petitioner than a large Lodge in the city with a more cosmopolitan makeup.  Masonic Lodges are still made up of humans after all. It can be an adjustment for a small Lodge that has never had membership from whatever the local brand of Christianity is.  But the majority of Masons are good people who value reason.  Give them a chance. 

The only real caution I would advise is to make sure you are contacting a Regular Lodge that is chartered under the legitimate Grand Lodge for your jurisdiction. There are a lot of pretenders out there.  

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## Bloke (Jun 22, 2016)

Jimmy91 said:


> Ok because I didn't know if not coming in person and giving a call first would of been taken the wrong way. Sounds good. Is there anything I should be cautious of? because for say in Islam you have different types of Muslims who practice differently. Now I understand this is not a religion but are there different types of sects in a way? I think you will understand what I'm getting at lol
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using My Freemasonry Pro



I would suggest you wait for one of the Texas Masons to post here - there are a lot of them on this board..... many work, but they tend to pop in, and certainly by the weekend. Me, I am a big fan of people emailing me first. The problem might arise that you drop in on  busy night when you will not get the attention you need or deserve. I would definiately make contact via phone or email...

I am not sure, but here we have "dry" lodges and "wet" lodges which refer to drinking alcohol. Not sure if that is an issue for you.... actually, are'nt Texas Lodges all dry ? A TX Brother will be able to tell us.


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## Bloke (Jun 22, 2016)

Winter said:


> ....The only real caution I would advise is to make sure you are contacting a Regular Lodge that is chartered under the legitimate Grand Lodge for your jurisdiction. There are a lot of pretenders out there.



Indeed. There seems to be several in Texas. I would wait for one of the TX bros to drop into this thread.


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## Jimmy91 (Jun 22, 2016)

Ok hopefully in time someone drops in; easy day for me here so just able to relax done by 1130 hopefully.  


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## Jimmy91 (Jun 22, 2016)

I'll change the thread name lol that should help 


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## Brother JC (Jun 22, 2016)

All four of the lodges I have been a member of have Muslim Brethren. One will be Master of his lodge in the next year or so, and I'm glad to have witnessed his Degrees.


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## Bro. Landry (Jun 22, 2016)

I have brothers in my lodge, here in Louisiana, who practice the Muslim faith, and consider them friends, Bros, and Masonic mentors. You definitely should have no problems.


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## dfreybur (Jun 22, 2016)

Jimmy91 said:


> I'm here stationed out of Texas and plan to stay after getting out.



Welcome to what seems to be the most pro-military state in the union.



> I see that some lodges they wear crosses, etc.



Please do not confuse the lodge with the members.  All of my lodges have members who wear their cross, members who wear other symbols, members who don't.  The lodge itself never does.  To be adopted into our family you need to be comfortable around good men of any faith, often having no idea what faith a man has decided upon.  You'll only know their choice for those among us who decide to wear a symbol openly.

Also please do not confuse optional appendent orders with the lodge.  There exist optional orders that use the cross as a part of their symbolism.  They aren't our most popular optional orders.

If you encounter a place that calls itself a lodge that uses a cross, as a lodge not as some of the individual members, that group is clandestine.  We promise to not have contact with them as a part of the obligations we take going through our degrees.



> As a Muslim I respect all faiths and religions now would me becoming a Freemason have me contradict or go against my beliefs in forms of maybe rituals, clothing and or events?



No.  I have been to degrees of both Shiite and Zuni candidates.  More than one of my lodges have long time active members who are Muslim.

Be informed that our degrees tell a story out of the Old Testament.  Our degrees are participatory theater in the round with the candidate playing a part.  To participate in our degrees one must reach a comfort level in one's own faith to the point of not objecting to playing a character in an Old Testament story.  Usually it takes extra consideration for a member of a non-JCI faith to decide they are willing to participate in such a story.  I've read the Koran and no such objection is to be found in it anywhere.

I've seen in the news that some Muslims would not be willing to be a character in such a play, but all of the Muslims I know have been at lodge and at work.  None of the Brothers minded and none of my friends at the office have cared about my membership.


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## Jimmy91 (Jun 22, 2016)

Thank all you fine gentleman for your words of knowledge and of course I more than appreciate it. I called my local lodge and sounds good hopefully everything works for the best. I wish you all nothing but good. Thank you 


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## coachn (Jun 22, 2016)

Jimmy91 said:


> Thank all you fine gentleman for your words of knowledge and of course I more than appreciate it. I called my local lodge and sounds good hopefully everything works for the best. I wish you all nothing but good. Thank you
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using My Freemasonry Pro


One thing you might mention to those doing your degree is how your faith treats your holy book.  I know that there is one lodge to my knowledge that knows that the Koran is to be kept closed when kissed.


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## Jimmy91 (Jun 22, 2016)

coachn said:


> One thing you might mention to those doing your degree is how your faith treats your holy book.  I know that there is one lodge to my knowledge that knows that the Koran is to be kept closed when kissed.


Ok will do 


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## Levelhead (Jun 23, 2016)

Blue lodge and crosses? You wont find that., the KT has crosses but its an appendant body and for Christians of the belief of.  


Sent from Mossy Oak Swamp Bottom


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## MRichard (Jun 23, 2016)

Unfortunately, you will find that many Texas lodges have a heavy Christian influence. But there are diverse lodges here as well. Due some research first, if you are near a large Metropolitan area, it shouldn't be a problem. But some lodges are primarily Christian. So it depends on where you live and which grand lodge you are interested in petitioning.


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## ChristopherNance (Jun 23, 2016)

Levelhead said:


> Blue lodge and crosses? You wont find that., the KT has crosses but its an appendant body and for Christians of the belief of.
> 
> 
> Sent from Mossy Oak Swamp Bottom


I know of several blue lodges in my State that have the Christian symbols in the temple. That's not even including the ones that have the antique Lord's prayer posted in lodge. Your statement is not 100% accurate. 

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## ChristopherNance (Jun 23, 2016)

Jimmy, every lodge is different. Some are more "progressive" than others. If you go to a blue lodge and see something you don't agree with, do not join that lodge. Instead search for another lodge that you will feel more at home with. 

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## mrpierce17 (Jun 23, 2016)

Winter said:


> Please ask questions if you have any.  We are happy to help. Freemasonry is wonderful in that there is no other place you will find Christians, Muslims, and Jews coming together as brothers with no rancor for how the other worships God.  My lodge has members from all three of the major faiths and keeps all three holy books open upon the alter when we meet. We are proof that there can be peace.
> 
> Transmitted via my R5 astromech.


Is there a certain chapter/verse the other VSL's are opens on (Holy Koran exc.) in each degree ??? I have tried to get a straight forward answer to this from a few brothers but never could get a answer you can PM me I know this may be sensitive information


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## dfreybur (Jun 23, 2016)

mrpierce17 said:


> Is there a certain chapter/verse the other VSL's are opens on (Holy Koran exc.) in each degree ??? I have tried to get a straight forward answer to this from a few brothers but never could get a answer you can PM me I know this may be sensitive information



Not all jurisdictions specify specific verses when using the King James Version.  I was quite surprised when I first visited in a jurisdiction that specifies.  Now that I'm affiliated in 3 jurisdictions 1 does 2 don't.

I've never heard of specifying verses in other sacred writings.  Should there be specifications in lands where a specific faith is the local majority I'd ask them and go with their recommendations.  At some point someone has to make up such a specification so it may as well be someone who is deeply familiar with that VSL.


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## mrpierce17 (Jun 23, 2016)

dfreybur said:


> Not all jurisdictions specify specific verses when using the King James Version.  I was quite surprised when I first visited in a jurisdiction that specifies.  Now that I'm affiliated in 3 jurisdictions 1 does 2 don't.
> .



Wow that's interesting


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## Bloke (Jun 23, 2016)

dfreybur said:


> Not all jurisdictions specify specific verses when using the King James Version.  I was quite surprised when I first visited in a jurisdiction that specifies.  Now that I'm affiliated in 3 jurisdictions 1 does 2 don't.



Things differ. We just open the VSL to any page without reference to the content on that page. There would be nothing stopping a lodge here opening a lodge using a VSL which is not a Bible, here there are a couple of lodges which use a Torah. What is interesting is how grumpy some of our (Christian) PMs get when every VSL of members is not present when lodge is open, they see the plurality of our membership as a point of pride and every craft lodge I am in has at least one Muslim (my mother lodge), in my other lodge, I do not even know how many we have, maybe 5-6 but as you know, we really do not keep track.... but our pedestal is very crowded with VSLs ! 

While the membership of TX lodges might comprise Christians, that in no way makes Freemasonry Christian. I would hope and expect those Lodges would be happy and proud to accept a man of good character who has a  belief in a Supreme Being  as a member


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## Jimmy91 (Jun 23, 2016)

While the membership of TX lodges might comprise Christians, that in no way makes Freemasonry Christian. I would hope and expect those Lodges would be happy and proud to accept a man of good character who has a  belief in a Supreme Being  as a member


I hope so too


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## dfreybur (Jun 24, 2016)

Bloke said:


> While the membership of TX lodges might comprise Christians, that in no way makes Freemasonry Christian. I would hope and expect those Lodges would be happy and proud to accept a man of good character who has a  belief in a Supreme Being  as a member



So far I have been to degrees in Texas on the Koran and Bagavat Gita.  That only counts candidates who decided to ask to use a specific book.

It does not include candidates who decided to go into their first degree cold.  When I petitioned I decided to put myself into the hands of the members and I went in having no idea what would happen.  I didn't even know there was a Bible in the room before I first entered.  My degrees were in another jurisdiction but the principle applies everywhere.

I think in a lot of cases the Brothers have no idea whatsoever how religiously diverse the membership is.  Plenty of Brothers never discuss religion in lodge so some incorrectly figure the membership is more uniform than it actually is.

Demographics of the local population might supply a good guess as to the lodge membership for religion, but think about that for a moment.  We exclude atheists.  We are openly proud of our religious diversity so that will cause some to exclude themselves.  We have spent centuries building a reputation for religious diversity so that can draw a higher percentage from minority religions than would be suggested by local demographics.


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## Bloke (Jun 24, 2016)

dfreybur said:


> So far I have been to degrees in Texas on the Koran and Bagavat Gita.  That only counts candidates who decided to ask to use a specific book.
> 
> It does not include candidates who decided to go into their first degree cold.  When I petitioned I decided to put myself into the hands of the members and I went in having no idea what would happen.  I didn't even know there was a Bible in the room before I first entered.  My degrees were in another jurisdiction but the principle applies everywhere.
> 
> ...



We actually ask at the Committee of Inquiry. 

Do you believe in a supreme being ? (tick)
Now, every freemason makes a promise using his volume of the sacred law when making that promise, we have members who Christian who use the Bible when making that promise, Muslims who use the Koran, Jews who use the Torah, are you comfortable with the Bible (or we use the their VSL if we know they are not Christian) or would you prefer to use another VSL?

It is a standard question in our Committee of Inquiries because increasingly our candidates do use other books other than the Bible as their VSL.


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## MRichard (Jun 24, 2016)

Bloke said:


> While the membership of TX lodges might comprise Christians, that in no way makes Freemasonry Christian. I would hope and expect those Lodges would be happy and proud to accept a man of good character who has a  belief in a Supreme Being  as a member



Of course it doesn't. There is diversity in the state but there are many smaller lodges that are not.


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## Bro Asad (Jun 25, 2016)

Salaam good sir
Freemasonry in no way conflicts with your personal beliefs. All that is required in terms of belief is that you believe in a supreme being and the immortality of the soul. There are many Christian undertones within the craft and you are given a bible upon being raised; you seem like a level-headed gentleman and understand that there is a wealth of valuable information found within the Bible as well as the Quran, Torah, Vedas, etc. Do not be dissuaded from Freemasonry if you (might) feel that it is reserved for just men of Christian faith. It's a wonderful journey and learning experience, as a Muslim, Christian, Jew, or whatever your faith may be. 
I hope to call you my brother soon.


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## Jimmy91 (Jun 26, 2016)

Bro Asad 
Peace be unto you also brother and I hope so also; I called a Prince Hall Lodge and they haven't got back to me so I was thinking should I just attempt a mainstream lodge. I'm not sure I am really interested but I'm from New York not Texas so it's hard to meet people that can help guide me on ground here; it'd be nice if someone near Fort Hood, TX would PM me so I can attempt to meet someone and move forward because I have no doubts that I can be accepted I'm a guy who wants nothing but good for my family and people  


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## fawad ali (Jun 26, 2016)

Jimmy91 said:


> Peace to everyone. I am a Muslim Soldier in the United States Army and I'm curious to hear from those with knowledge about this topic. Before I start understand I feel I know the basic foundations of masonry and I highly respect it. Anything I choose to do whether it be a soldier, a Muslim, and father or whatever title I may hold I am deeply committed to being the best I can be as a man trying to strive for goodness in myself and others. I'm here stationed out of Texas and plan to stay after getting out.
> Now down to the question... I see that some lodges they wear crosses, etc. As a Muslim I respect all faiths and religions now would me becoming a Freemason have me contradict or go against my beliefs in forms of maybe rituals, clothing and or events?
> I look to you guys for guidance on this because I am seriously wanting to become apart of this great fraternity and lineage.
> Thank you guys much respect and may peace be upon you.
> ...


Dear, 
I'm a muslim and a freemason.
For me both are totally compatible as both ask you to work first on your insight,  trying to know you than beleive in good and create the fraternity amongs others.  Believing in a entity who had create everything where you can get back to have peace its something universal,  with different names amongs all the religions around the world. 
Hope its help to make your mind


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## Bloke (Jun 26, 2016)

Jimmy91 said:


> Bro Asad
> Peace be unto you also brother and I hope so also; I called a Prince Hall Lodge and they haven't got back to me so I was thinking should I just attempt a mainstream lodge. I'm not sure I am really interested but I'm from New York not Texas so it's hard to meet people that can help guide me on ground here; it'd be nice if someone near Fort Hood, TX would PM me so I can attempt to meet someone and move forward because I have no doubts that I can be accepted I'm a guy who wants nothing but good for my family and people
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using My Freemasonry Pro



Don't forget we're volunteers and it can take some time to get back to people. Last year when our secretary died, some of our potential candidates got ignored for months (they were very understanding).


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## The Undertaker (Jun 27, 2016)

To be frank, I have concerns that maybe someone may be able to help me with. I may be completely wrong (and I hope I am), but aren't non-Muslims considered "infidels" according to Islamic teaching? And aren't "infidels," such as Jews and Christians, unworthy of Muslim friendship? My point is this: would a Muslim Mason ever be compelled to turn on another Mason, say a Jewish Mason, or a Christian Mason, since such are (?) considered infidels? I'm not talking about faith, I'm talking about principle. Or does a Mason, who is Muslim, consider our brotherhood sacred, and truly believe that his Jewish and Christian (and any other faith) brothers are equal? With so much unrest in the world concerning Islam, my trust-factor is curious, as well as dubious. 

And if Islam truly teaches that all others than Muslims are infidels, and unworthy, how does Masonry and Islam truly, really fit? Are Muslim Masons living not in-step with Islamic foundations, beliefs, teachings? 

Are the teachings, foundations, principles of Islam more vital, more important, than the tenets of Freemasonry? When it comes down to brass tacks, will Muslim brothers turn on non-Muslim brothers? 

Thank you for any decent input. Nasty comments, snarky attitudes have no place here. But constructive, helpfulness does.


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## MRichard (Jun 27, 2016)

The Undertaker said:


> To be frank, I have concerns that maybe someone may be able to help me with. I may be completely wrong (and I hope I am), but aren't non-Muslims considered "infidels" according to Islamic teaching? And aren't "infidels," such as Jews and Christians, unworthy of Muslim friendship? My point is this: would a Muslim Mason ever be compelled to turn on another Mason, say a Jewish Mason, or a Christian Mason, since such are (?) considered infidels? I'm not talking about faith, I'm talking about principle. Or does a Mason, who is Muslim, consider our brotherhood sacred, and truly believe that his Jewish and Christian (and any other faith) brothers are equal? With so much unrest in the world concerning Islam, my trust-factor is curious, as well as dubious.
> 
> And if Islam truly teaches that all others than Muslims are infidels, and unworthy, how does Masonry and Islam truly, really fit? Are Muslim Masons living not in-step with Islamic foundations, beliefs, teachings?
> 
> ...



As someone who has belonged to lodges with Muslim brothers, it is not an issue. I am not an expert on Islam not do I claim to be. If you do your due diligence on a candidate before he comes in the West gate, you should be able to weed out the bad apples regardless of which religion they believe in.


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## The Undertaker (Jun 27, 2016)

MRichard said:


> As someone who has belonged to lodges with Muslim brothers, it is not an issue. I am not an expert on Islam not do I claim to be. If you do your due diligence on a candidate before he comes in the West gate, you should be able to weed out the bad apples regardless of which religion they believe in.


Thank you very much. Your comments are helpful in (re) forming my thoughts.


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## mrpierce17 (Jun 27, 2016)

The Undertaker said:


> To be frank, I have concerns that maybe someone may be able to help me with. I may be completely wrong (and I hope I am), but aren't non-Muslims considered "infidels" according to Islamic teaching? And aren't "infidels," such as Jews and Christians, unworthy of Muslim friendship? My point is this: would a Muslim Mason ever be compelled to turn on another Mason, say a Jewish Mason, or a Christian Mason, since such are (?) considered infidels? I'm not talking about faith, I'm talking about principle. Or does a Mason, who is Muslim, consider our brotherhood sacred, and truly believe that his Jewish and Christian (and any other faith) brothers are equal? With so much unrest in the world concerning Islam, my trust-factor is curious, as well as dubious.
> 
> And if Islam truly teaches that all others than Muslims are infidels, and unworthy, how does Masonry and Islam truly, really fit? Are Muslim Masons living not in-step with Islamic foundations, beliefs, teachings?
> 
> ...


I know quite a few Muslims that have no problem with people who are Christians or even Jews for that matter sounds like this information may have come from someone who was very radicalized in there belief the same could be said about a radical Christian person the gentleman has already previously stated that he would have no problem befriending people of different faiths


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## Bloke (Jun 27, 2016)

The Undertaker said:


> To be frank, I have concerns that maybe someone may be able to help me with. I may be completely wrong (and I hope I am), but aren't non-Muslims considered "infidels" according to Islamic teaching? And aren't "infidels," such as Jews and Christians, unworthy of Muslim friendship? My point is this: would a Muslim Mason ever be compelled to turn on another Mason, say a Jewish Mason, or a Christian Mason, since such are (?) considered infidels? I'm not talking about faith, I'm talking about principle. Or does a Mason, who is Muslim, consider our brotherhood sacred, and truly believe that his Jewish and Christian (and any other faith) brothers are equal? With so much unrest in the world concerning Islam, my trust-factor is curious, as well as dubious.
> 
> And if Islam truly teaches that all others than Muslims are infidels, and unworthy, how does Masonry and Islam truly, really fit? Are Muslim Masons living not in-step with Islamic foundations, beliefs, teachings?
> 
> ...



I'm a proud 'infidel' just as my Muslim friends and brothers are proud 'infidels' and/or "pagans" to me: its a relative term. They have a strong enough faith in "Allah" and I have a strong enough faith in "God" to let our respective Fathers sort it out. For me, love one another is the greatest commandment and seems to serve all well.

Islam, like Christianity, is a diverse religion and the type of man from each tradition who joins and stays in Freemasonry will recognize the Brotherhood of man, regardless of each individual religion which, as Freemasons, we should respect.


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## The Undertaker (Jun 28, 2016)

@ MrPierce17, thank you again. My questions are not is Masonry compatible with Islam; my questions are about Islam being compatible with Masonry. And you're correct, the information that I've gleaned _may be incorrect, _and I'm open to correction. But, unlike your good-self, my brother no Muslim has responded to my post. 

@ bloke, thank you for your response. I am not asking for personal opinion, but facts, to steer me in the correct direction. To you, infidel and pagen (?) are relative terms. I do not understand that comment. "Love one another . . . " is a wholly Christian term, and I would agree with your assertion that it is the greatest commandment; but, I still ask if that hold true for Muslims toward non-Muslims. I, a Freemason, respect all religions, including Islam, if that was, indeed, your question/insinuation. Again, that is not my question: my question lies in whether Islam respects Freemasonry, and non-Muslim Masons.


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## Bloke (Jun 28, 2016)

The Undertaker said:


> @ MrPierce17, thank you again. My questions are not is Masonry compatible with Islam; my questions are about Islam being compatible with Masonry. And you're correct, the information that I've gleaned _may be incorrect, _and I'm open to correction. But, unlike your good-self, my brother no Muslim has responded to my post.
> 
> @ bloke, thank you for your response. I am not asking for personal opinion, but facts, to steer me in the correct direction. To you, infidel and pagen (?) are relative terms. I do not understand that comment. "Love one another . . . " is a wholly Christian term, and I would agree with your assertion that it is the greatest commandment; but, I still ask if that hold true for Muslims toward non-Muslims. I, a Freemason, respect all religions, including Islam, if that was, indeed, your question/insinuation. Again, that is not my question: my question lies in whether Islam respects Freemasonry, and non-Muslim Masons.



My mother lodge has 2 Muslims, my second lodge has....5 or 6 that i can think of. One of the Muslim in my mother lodge is a PM twice and has been a member of Grand Teams. Obviously hanging out with Christians is not an issue for these Muslim Brothers.  These are facts not opinions. Two bros i am very close two are Muslims, met their families, had them in my house etc.... our respective religions do not affect our ability to be friends or brothers.

Islam as a whole is a large umbrella term. There will be Muslim sects who officially condemn freemasonry,  just as there are Christian Churches who do.


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## Ressam (Jun 28, 2016)

The Undertaker said:


> @ MrPierce17, thank you again. My questions are not is Masonry compatible with Islam; my questions are about Islam being compatible with Masonry. And you're correct, the information that I've gleaned _may be incorrect, _and I'm open to correction. But, unlike your good-self, my brother no Muslim has responded to my post.
> 
> @ bloke, thank you for your response. I am not asking for personal opinion, but facts, to steer me in the correct direction. To you, infidel and pagen (?) are relative terms. I do not understand that comment. "Love one another . . . " is a wholly Christian term, and I would agree with your assertion that it is the greatest commandment; but, I still ask if that hold true for Muslims toward non-Muslims. I, a Freemason, respect all religions, including Islam, if that was, indeed, your question/insinuation. Again, that is not my question: my question lies in whether Islam respects Freemasonry, and non-Muslim Masons.




Greetings, Sir!
If it has to be said shortly:
Islam is -- From GAOTU.
Have no doubt about that!
The issue is that -- as always, and, after so many years, some people like interpretetin' The Teaching in accordance with their -- personal ego's, selfishness, fantasies, benefits.
So simple.


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## Bloke (Jun 28, 2016)

The Undertaker said:


> .....To you, infidel and pagen (?) are relative terms. I do not understand that comment. ......



Who the holy men in Mecca, Rome or Canterbury call non-believers will vary, hence "infidel" is a relative term.


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## mrpierce17 (Jun 28, 2016)

The Undertaker said:


> @ MrPierce17, thank you again. My questions are not is Masonry compatible with Islam; my questions are about Islam being compatible with Masonry.


as someone who has practiced Islam I can assure you that the koran teaches love the term Muslim only means one who submits to the will of Allah  Allah being God one could say we are all Muslim if we are submitting to the will of God , the answer to your question may differ from person to person that depends on the amount of love and respect they have for their fellow man but does the teachings of Islam go against Freemasonry I would have to say no


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## The Undertaker (Jun 28, 2016)

Bloke said:


> My mother lodge has 2 Muslims, my second lodge has....5 or 6 that i can think of. One of the Muslim in my mother lodge is a PM twice and has been a member of Grand Teams. Obviously hanging out with Christians is not an issue for these Muslim Brothers.  These are facts not opinions. Two bros i am very close two are Muslims, met their families, had them in my house etc.... our respective religions do not affect our ability to be friends or brothers.
> 
> Islam as a whole is a large umbrella term. There will be Muslim sects who officially condemn freemasonry,  just as there are Christian Churches who do.


Excellent points, especially the reflection of condemnation of Freemasonry by Christian churches. True, unfortunately. My dealings with Muslims have been professional, and not Masonic. And your experiences have been good in lodge, which is valuable information for those of us without such associations. 

I find it intriguing/bothersome that there has been no feedback, no input whatsoever to our conversation by any Muslim. That in itself makes me suspect all the more. Religion has innumerable facets, levels, interpretations (as individual as the believer), so most likely my queries are moot. With world-wide upheaval, terrorism, and evil today surrounding Islam, I remain dubious, due in large part to the seeming lack of concern from non-fanatical, non-violent Muslims in the United States about fanatical, violent Muslim activities, including killings, in our country. I do not recall any out-pour of sympathy, much less outrage by Muslims, after the September, 2001 New York City/Pennsylvania terrorist attacks. If I stand to be corrected, so be it. My dis/mistrust of Islam is not unfounded, nor unique, or isolated.

This is the very crux of my concern; where does Islam stop, and Freemasonry begin? Or, where does Freemasonry stop, and Islam begin? During this country's own Civil War, there was consideration when Freemasonry was shared, even between enemies. Would that hold true between Islamic Masons and non-Islamic Masons? Lots to consider beyond religion, I realize. Principle, background, and myriad subjective ideas for Muslim, and non-Muslim.


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## The Undertaker (Jun 28, 2016)

Ressam said:


> Greetings, Sir!
> If it has to be said shortly:
> Islam is -- From GAOTU.
> Have no doubt about that!
> ...


So simple is an interpretation as well. A prevalent mind-set is that Islam "simply" wants to convert the entire world to Islam, as set-out in the Koran. But that is definitely not simple. There is no other religion so determined at any cost, whether "From GAOTU." or not. Freemasonry is a safe-haven for all religions, not just one. Are the two in-congruent??? There in lies the tale.


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## Ressam (Jun 28, 2016)

The Undertaker said:


> So simple is an interpretation as well. A prevalent mind-set is that Islam "simply" wants to convert the entire world to Islam, as set-out in the Koran. But that is definitely not simple. There is no other religion so determined at any cost, whether "From GAOTU." or not. Freemasonry is a safe-haven for all religions, not just one. Are the two in-congruent??? There in lies the tale.




If possible, could You, please, tell -- where in Kuran -- it's written that -- "Entire World should be 'converted' to Islam"?
Surah number. Thanks.


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## Bloke (Jun 28, 2016)

The Undertaker said:


> Excellent points, especially the reflection of condemnation of Freemasonry by Christian churches. True, unfortunately. My dealings with Muslims have been professional, and not Masonic. And your experiences have been good in lodge, which is valuable information for those of us without such associations.
> 
> I find it intriguing/bothersome that there has been no feedback, no input whatsoever to our conversation by any Muslim. That in itself makes me suspect all the more. Religion has innumerable facets, levels, interpretations (as individual as the believer), so most likely my queries are moot. With world-wide upheaval, terrorism, and evil today surrounding Islam, I remain dubious, due in large part to the seeming lack of concern from non-fanatical, non-violent Muslims in the United States about fanatical, violent Muslim activities, including killings, in our country. I do not recall any out-pour of sympathy, much less outrage by Muslims, after the September, 2001 New York City/Pennsylvania terrorist attacks. If I stand to be corrected, so be it. My dis/mistrust of Islam is not unfounded, nor unique, or isolated.
> 
> This is the very crux of my concern; where does Islam stop, and Freemasonry begin? Or, where does Freemasonry stop, and Islam begin? During this country's own Civil War, there was consideration when Freemasonry was shared, even between enemies. Would that hold true between Islamic Masons and non-Islamic Masons? Lots to consider beyond religion, I realize. Principle, background, and myriad subjective ideas for Muslim, and non-Muslim.



Some Muslim brother will see it at some point and hopefully chime in. Australian and many other Muslim leaders condemned 9/11 etc etc. I would suggest if you have not seen such condemnations, it strongly reflects the media you watch or read.

See
http://indianexpress.com/article/wo...eaders-condemn-orlando-terror-attack-2850344/

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/muslim-clerics-condemn-terrorism_us_566adfa1e4b009377b249dea
That's all typical....

I woulds suggest Islam is not the problem you refer to above, it's extremism. Respectfully I would suggest you think on this.... who exactly is resisting "ISIS/L" on the ground ? It's other Muslims.....

To continue further risks running us into both religion AND politics, two topics we should try to steer clear of, but I know Muslim extremists represent my Muslim friends as much as Robert Lewis Dear represents my view of Christianity.

Let's not also not forget this whole thread was started by an American Muslim who wears your county's uniform in defense of it and who is drawn to the values of Freemasonry.


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## The Undertaker (Jun 28, 2016)

Bloke said:


> Some Muslim brother will see it at some point and hopefully chime in. Australian and many other Muslim leaders condemned 9/11 etc etc. I would suggest if you have not seen such condemnations, it strongly reflects the media you watch or read.
> 
> See
> http://indianexpress.com/article/wo...eaders-condemn-orlando-terror-attack-2850344/
> ...



Agreed, wholeheartedly, with your statements this go-round. And yes, my views are only those that are given us in the United States; I make no comment, nor have a qualm with other countries of which I have no knowledge of news reporting. As for the American Muslim defending our country, I am eternally grateful for his service, as with each and every American soldier. My forefathers fought in the Revolutionary War here, and every war since, barring Vietnam, so patriotism is important to me.

Best point, too, is that of running amok with religion, and/or politics. I will keep my quest of answers to myself, and appease this forum. And I thank all of you who have chimed-in, and thank this forum for indulging my questions.


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## Ripcord22A (Jun 28, 2016)

Ive served a total of 27 months in Iraq, working shoulder to shoulder with Iraqi Army and Police and civilians.  I can tell you from 1st hand knowledge that the terrorists do not represent the Islamic or Muslim majority.  The problem is that in a lot of the regions of Muslim countries the population cannot read or write, so all they have to go off of is the extremist cleric that tells them that when the Koran says "convert everyone to Islam" what it really means is that those that wont must die, they don't know any better.  Then that spreads.  Muslims from America and other places see us killing Muslims and it makes them want to help them. 

Think about it like this, If a Christian Army invaded Israel and Russia came to its defense and started wrecking shop there would be a lot of Christians that would join the "Christian Cause" even if it was wrong.


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## The Undertaker (Jun 28, 2016)

@jdmadsenCraterlake211   Thank you very much, and extremely well-put. And a much larger "THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE," my brother. I take what you wrote to heart, and will do my best to bend my old brain around a bit. You worded your experiences, and knowledge, very succinctly, and I appreciate that very much.


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## Ripcord22A (Jun 28, 2016)

I wholeheartedly understand your stance though.  I too am very caustious of middle easterners that I do not know, Especially if they are speaking Arabic or one of its dialects.  But I wont be standoffish.  I will shake that mans hand and speak to him as a person until he proves me otherwise.


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## The Undertaker (Jun 28, 2016)

jdmadsenCraterlake211 said:


> I wholeheartedly understand your stance though.  I too am very caustious of middle easterners that I do not know, Especially if they are speaking Arabic or one of its dialects.  But I wont be standoffish.  I will shake that mans hand and speak to him as a person until he proves me otherwise.



Excellent approach, to be aware of one's surroundings at all times. Needless to say, be friendly, be vigilant, and come home safe, whole of mind, body, and spirit, my brother.


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## Bloke (Jun 28, 2016)

jdmadsenCraterlake211 said:


> Ive served a total of 27 months in Iraq, working shoulder to shoulder with Iraqi Army and Police and civilians.  I can tell you from 1st hand knowledge that the terrorists do not represent the Islamic or Muslim majority.  The problem is that in a lot of the regions of Muslim countries the population cannot read or write, so all they have to go off of is the extremist cleric that tells them that when the Koran says "convert everyone to Islam" what it really means is that those that wont must die, they don't know any better.  Then that spreads.  Muslims from America and other places see us killing Muslims and it makes them want to help them.
> 
> Think about it like this, If a Christian Army invaded Israel and Russia came to its defense and started wrecking shop there would be a lot of Christians that would join the "Christian Cause" even if it was wrong.



Well done on this post, i think it's spot on.


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## Brother JC (Jun 29, 2016)

Having followers of Islam in lodge is nothing new. I don't know when the first one was Raised but Kipling sat in lodge with them well over a century ago. And there are plenty of Christians that feel everyone else are "infidels."
By the way, have you actually looked up the meaning of "infidel?" It's someone who doesn't follow your religion. That's it. I suggest you stop painting every follower of the Islamic religion with the same brush and start looking at the humanity within each person. It's the Masonic thing to do.


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## DJGurkins (Jul 4, 2016)

I live in Floresville, Tx and see no reason you couldn't just show up at a meeting night. Most of the lodges have a meal before we meet and would be very welcoming to a potential member or some just curious about what it takes to join. Welcome to the forum.


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