# Poll: Masonic Member Retention



## Traveling Man (Jul 7, 2011)

I just examined a lot of statistical data regarding Masonic Retention. It appears (without mortality even entering into the picture) our losses stem from demits and suspension for nonpayment of dues, or dropout.
Dropout being classified as those brethren through nonpayment of dues have fashioned their own mechanism of demit. When the mortality tables are included in these data sets it highly suggest that we are past the point of diminishing return.


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## MikeMay (Jul 7, 2011)

Personality conflicts


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## jwhoff (Jul 7, 2011)

All on the list and more.  Yes, personality conflicts included.  Many folks just get tired of folks trying to shove their profane world beliefs down everyone's throats claiming those who don't agree couldn't be good masons.  That crowd obviously is unlearned and doesn't have the slightest idea masonry blossomed during the Age of Enlightenment.  

Generational differences play a part.  

Money also plays a role, whether coming in the form of dues or secondary employment to make ends meet.


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## JJones (Jul 8, 2011)

I think 90% of dropouts can be avoided by informing potential candidates at the time of their interviews.  Everything in the poll plays a factor, but if we sit down and inform the candidate what masonry stands for, what would be expected of them (timewise, monetarily, and memorywork, as well as finding out why they wish to join and confirming or denying if that's a valid reason.

At that point the candidate should know if he wishes to join or not.  If not then they don't join and that's one less figure for retention.

I've seen personality conflicts take their toll as well but I suppose that cant really be helped.


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## barryguitar (Jul 8, 2011)

politics. the Grand Masters edict concerning the widows sons, combined with the B.S. with the directors staff has decimated our lodge.


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## RAY (Jul 8, 2011)

A lot of drop outs could possibly be avoided by proper investigations and better informed as to what is expected of them. Many who have ideas on what Masons are find out after the fact its not what "they" expected and never take any instructions. Over the years its been proven the percentage of drop outs are not related as to the esoterical work required and reducing the amount of work will not salvage that particular EA.


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## Bill Lins (Oct 19, 2011)

barryguitar said:


> the B.S. with the directors staff



Not sure what you're referring to here- could you please explain?


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## vanderson78102 (Oct 22, 2011)

I don't know about your lodges, but I've seen a lot of infighting in some lodges.  Older brothers just do not want to pass along responsibilities to younger brothers for one reason or another and a rift starts to form.  I've seen a lot of good, newer, masons just stop coming to lodge entirely because they get frustrated.  I've found myself coming close to that point myself.  When even mundane business becomes a battle, brothers just get tired and give up.


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## BroBill (Oct 22, 2011)

Agree with most of the brothers so far and I would add that we also do not do a good job informing/reminding brothers that if they need to "drop" for financial or personal reasons that they can request a demit and protect their options.  The number of suspensions is up, particularly in the York Rite. I think effective education and mentorship is crucial and we really need to look there for some- not all obviously- of our solutions. IMHO.  S&F  BroBill


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## Brent Heilman (Oct 24, 2011)

BroBill said:


> Agree with most of the brothers so far and I would add that we also do not do a good job informing/reminding brothers that if they need to "drop" for financial or personal reasons that they can request a demit and protect their options.  The number of suspensions is up, particularly in the York Rite. I think effective education and mentorship is crucial and we really need to look there for some- not all obviously- of our solutions. IMHO.  S&F  BroBill



This is so true Bro. Bill. It wasn't until our last stated meeting that I even knew this was an option. While I am not going to fault anyone in particular in my Lodge there are some small details that I did not learn until I either observed them from someone else or heard about them. There are so many things that the Brothers that have been doing this for years and years do and don't think about that never gets passed along. I understand there will always be things that pop up every now and then that haven't been dealt with for years, but sometimes it is the things like dues that get overlooked and the new Master Masons learn by trial and error.


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## cog41 (Oct 25, 2011)

I think everything on the list could be a reason. Some in combinations of 2 or 3.

I think it simply varies from lodge to lodge, grand to grand.

I, like many here have read articles, discussions and even parts of books about the decline.

I don't think you can put your finger on one thing and absolutley, positively say that's it!


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## curt (Oct 26, 2011)

I have been approached by quite a few young men about Feemasonry and they always reference the Television shows. They all seem to at least want to believe, that Freemasons actually do run the world and that we have the inside track on everything. I have met alot of fellows , who went through the degree's only to quit a few months later. Their usual response is "what a joke". I personally have struggled with staying with the lodge, due in part to infighting about everything from procedure to what we were having for refreshments. I have to admit, I am very tired of it. I believe in Freemasonry and I doubt I will ever leave the lodge, but in my humble opinion, the lodge is as close to dying as it has ever been and if we dont do something to strengthen it, we will have lost a precious piece of history.

I cannot remember the last time, I saw ANY group of masons out in public, performing any acts of charity. I have seen the Knights of Columbus out, every year! I think maybe its time to get our act together Brothers.


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## coachn (Nov 2, 2011)

My experience of Freemasonry so far tells me that the root cause of each and every one of the above listed reasons stem from either not doing the Work OR others not doing the Work.

Candidates not doing the Work:

Politics? *Circumscription/Subduing/Due Bounds/Plumb-Level-Square Development - EA Work*
No time to dedicate to the fraternity*? Time Management / Values Inventory - EA Work*
Conflicts of beliefs*? Values-Morals Inventory - EA Work*
Family issues*? Time Management / Values Inventory - EA Work*
Work conflicts* ? Time Management / Values Inventory - EA Work* 
Others not doing the Work:

Memorization work too demanding? - *Misinformed by Brothers*​
Disappointment? - *Misinformed by Brothers*​
Disillusionment as to what they were getting into? - *Misinformed by Brothers*​
Either way, the main problem that gets in the way is the Work focus. Few GOOD men stay and participate if told they will be BETTER by joining and then never realize this promise. 

The organization is invested in preserving itself, as it should be BUT the majority of the members of Freemason organization have yet to wake up and actually deliver upon that "Good to Better" promise. And, for the record, memorization of anything does not make a good man better. All memorization does is install inventory between the ears. Unapplied inventory Burdens; it doesn't Empower.

Many Good men leave because what is offered holds little value to them. If the activities nurtured them, they would do whatever is necessary to participate. 

If you want to attract good men and keep them interested, you have to do more than show them the path. The organization and its members must live it.

$0.02

Bro. Coach N


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## khilles (Nov 3, 2011)

So true


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## Steve Cumbie (Jan 8, 2012)

jjones said:


> i think 90% of dropouts can be avoided by informing potential candidates at the time of their interviews.  Everything in the poll plays a factor, but if we sit down and inform the candidate what masonry stands for, what would be expected of them (timewise, monetarily, and memorywork, as well as finding out why they wish to join and confirming or denying if that's a valid reason.
> 
> At that point the candidate should know if he wishes to join or not.  If not then they don't join and that's one less figure for retention.
> 
> I've seen personality conflicts take their toll as well but i suppose that cant really be helped.



_diddo_


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## dreamer (Jul 6, 2012)

JJones said:


> I think 90% of dropouts can be avoided by informing potential candidates at the time of their interviews.  Everything in the poll plays a factor, but if we sit down and inform the candidate what masonry stands for, what would be expected of them (timewise, monetarily, and memorywork, as well as finding out why they wish to join and confirming or denying if that's a valid reason.
> 
> At that point the candidate should know if he wishes to join or not.  If not then they don't join and that's one less figure for retention.
> 
> I've seen personality conflicts take their toll as well but I suppose that cant really be helped.


I have to agree. It starts here and should end here. No point to add numbers to our fraternity, unless they are committed. Please Obsever the Craft.


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## Frater Cliff Porter (Jul 7, 2012)

I think men find that what they studied about and what they found are different.  We chronically undervalue Freemasonry, the lodge is then underfunded, and the lodge experience unfulfilling.  

We need to treat Masonry as special as it is.


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## Chalms (Jul 7, 2012)

In my short time with Masonry I have found one key issue...  The Lodge is completely inwardly focused.  Whether that is manifested by infighting or political shenanigans, lack of purpose, lack of participation, etc...  At the end of the day, most of the folks that bother to show up are just going through the motions.  We don't go from good to better by memorizing our Obligation, we go from go to better by living our Obligation, outside the Lodge as we do within it...


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## Michael Hatley (Jul 7, 2012)

Laziness.


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## Bro_Vick (Jul 8, 2012)

Work conflicts, i.e. getting relocated or getting put on nights.  Life altering events, death in the family, etc.  A handful because of personality conflicts and politics in the lodge.

When ever we get a visitor I always tell them to be sure to go to a couple of different lodges, and that they don't have to choose this lodge because they showed up once.  Living in a metropolitan area allows for a potential candidate to find a lodge that will met THEIR requirements for Freemasonry, rather than being told, "this is what you get".

S&F,
-Bro Vick


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## jwhoff (Jul 8, 2012)

Politics and inertia aside are those of us who could, and should, provide more light just to damn busy with other masonic obligations to make these lodges "rock/"  

Let the power players play on, let us "island hop" the inert, let us start providing those programs that folks really joined masonry for. 

Or, are we just expecting to much?


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## dreamer (Jul 9, 2012)

JJones said:


> I think 90% of dropouts can be avoided by informing potential candidates at the time of their interviews.  Everything in the poll plays a factor, but if we sit down and inform the candidate what masonry stands for, what would be expected of them (timewise, monetarily, and memorywork, as well as finding out why they wish to join and confirming or denying if that's a valid reason.
> 
> At that point the candidate should know if he wishes to join or not.  If not then they don't join and that's one less figure for retention.
> 
> I've seen personality conflicts take their toll as well but I suppose that cant really be helped.


 
I agree. We really need to be as honest as possible and nor paint only a rosy picture. Sometimes, we desire to increase our membership, but we can no longer afford to get the wrong people in. We really need to do what's best for the Craft. We we need to be tough. I would rather have committed Brothers than just a card carrying Brother. It's not about me, it's not about you, it's about the Fraternity!


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## NativeSteel (Aug 28, 2013)

" semper anticus "


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## dfreybur (Aug 28, 2013)

As I read this discussion I come to a different conclusion than some -

This is why brothers in the line and grand line are supposed to focus on "more men in Masonry".  Half of us die still current in our membership.  Half leave for some reason or another.  We need to figure out why brothers leave and improve, certainly.  We also need to find twice as many candidates as we conduct funerals for Masonry to survive across the generations.

This also applies to attendance percentages.  We need to figure out why brothers fail to attend and improve - And think what value Traditional Observance lodges with their high attendance should have.  We also need to find 10 times as many candidates as we see attending lodge for our own lodge to survive across the generations.  I'm okay with pumping brothers through degrees if all they plan on doing is moving on to appendant bodies or wear their ring, as long as they don't say they are going to come to lodge monthly then don't.


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## rhitland (Aug 28, 2013)

IMHO
I believe most men leave because lodge is not stimulating them or their minds.  When they finally get raised if they make it that far find that the majority of our secret conversations and brightest minds are philosophizing on the quandary of dwindling membership.  In short our focus is misplaced, not the candidates.


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## Thulsa Doom (Aug 28, 2013)

Here's an idea - stop dragging your feet and get busy including men into the fraternity. Investigate him well. Make sure he's the guy you want to include in the fraternity. Once you like him, include him. Do something fun. Entertain the new guy. Make him glad he joined. We call him Brother - how about making him a friend? 
Everyone is so hung up on formality. Did anyone ever ask the candidate if that's what he specifically wants? Did he join for the ritual or the camraderie? Is he enthusiastic? Don't bore him out of his enthusiasm. After festive board does everyone go home not to see each other until next month? Yeah that sounds like a good time. Next year when he's writing that check with his wife looking over his shoulder, asking what he gets for those membership dues and if they can take that out of the budget as a wasted expense, does he give in because it's just not that big a deal to him anymore? Has he moved on?
We want him to give his time and energy learning proficiency and ritual and his money for dues. What does he get in return? If he's not a guy that feels great personal reward by learning proficiency and ritual acting is just not his thing then what else is the lodge providing him with? A business meeting and a bowl of soup?


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## Brother JC (Aug 28, 2013)

dfreybur said:


> I'm okay with pumping brothers through degrees if all they plan on doing is moving on to appendant bodies or wear their ring...


I'm not. Might as well stop investigating candidates and take every man with a checkbook. And water down the Degrees while you're at it. Oh, yeah, install a bar, too, that's all the candidates really want, anyway.


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## JTM (Aug 28, 2013)

most of the people I know that have a "problem with masonry" really have other problems that they act out through masonry.


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## Blake Bowden (Aug 29, 2013)

Meetings that are nothing more than just paying bills and passing around signup sheets for fundraisers to keep the lights on will run off members. Visit the Education forum of this site, find an interesting article, print it out and share it at the next meeting. When Brethren learn something at Lodge, it gives them an incentive to come back for more.


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## 4thGenMason (Aug 29, 2013)

I have to agree with a lot of what has been said here. I often hear complaints about candidates being raised and still have a lot of questions. When they ask fellow brothers, they're met with, "I don't know." Many men want to learn, to thrive in masonry, but because there isn't any education beyond that taught in degrees, they feel dissatisfied. Let's face it, to really learn a LOT about masonry one must do a lot of research on their own and many just don't have the time. I'm not saying that fixing this problem will make a noticeable difference. But every little bit counts, and will eventually add up. 

I also agree we should strive for quality candidates, not quantity. Will you make more from 20 candidates who quit after a year or 2, or from 3 who stay in it for life and participate in keeping the fraternity alive and well?

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