# 1 Day Chance To Advance Classes



## JJones (Jul 18, 2013)

"I'm concerned about the chance to advance classes. I'm a lifetime member in Missouri and now live in Central Michigan. With the new classes & no proficiencies being returned I wonder if a new brother really has a chance to experience the teachings & know what it means to be a mason. I don't expect everyone to be a ritualist, but if we never ask anything from a man, how can we expect anything from a man. This just feels like a path for revenue instead of a path to better the fraternity."



Indeed.  Giving the secrets of Freemasonry away en mass may make a lot of members but it's not guaranteed to make many masons.


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## Bro Darren (Jul 18, 2013)

I am yet to become a mason, but I am seeking to do this. I have approached the GL in Victoria Australia and look forward to the journey ahead.

I guess I have a different view as I'm the one on the outside, the one that has many reasons in becoming a mason and for me it's about being part of a close group. The "secrets" will come when they come, but knowing a secret does not make a man a mason at heart. My mission, my path is to improve me, so that I am a better man, husband and father. I can't wait to participate in the learning, mastering the knowledge and being rewarded with the degrees that come with the journey.

From the outside, I see the fraternity with so much tradition and culture and that what makes a mason a mason inside. 

From the inside flows who we are and knowing a secret does not change who we are.

IMO as a brother to be


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## crono782 (Jul 19, 2013)

Personally I think the one day classes are completely counter to the point of the degrees. Might as well just pay for the dues card and call it a day. ;P As an aside, I also think YR shouldn't be done in festival format. If there was a practical way to not do SR reunions I'd say that's better as well. Unfortunately, it would probably take an entire year to pull it off at best. 


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## crono782 (Jul 19, 2013)

dalinkou said:


> First, if I am way off base and misunderstanding this post, please forgive me.  It appears that the thread pertains to the practice of initiating/passing/raising in a one-day seminar.  If I perceive this incorrectly, then delete this at your leisure.



On the contrary, I could not have said it better myself! Well said brother. 


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## dfreybur (Jul 19, 2013)

I have been through Scottish Rite classes.  They work.  Their controversy is no so long ago no living member experienced it but sure enough they went through the exact same process over a century ago.

*I* prefer the individual degrees, but I've already been through  mine.  The degrees are no longer about me.  They are abut the  candidates.  I have seen a candidate fail to show up for his degree at lodge and then show up when he was offered a class.  He then became active in lodge.  In this case the class was FC/MM and he was already an EA, but the principle is the same.

If a brother wants to proceed directly to the Shrine and all we'll ever see of him is when he signs the by-laws and sends in his dues, why not speed his path to that organization?


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## Bill Lins (Jul 19, 2013)

crono782 said:


> If there was a practical way to not do SR reunions I'd say that's better as well. Unfortunately, it would probably take an entire year to pull it off at best.


What would be wrong with that? I'd like to see one degree per month with a study session in between to discuss the lessons of the degree just witnessed. So what if it took 29 months to complete the Degrees? I think those who went through such a program would be very well grounded in Scottish Rite Freemasonry.


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## crono782 (Jul 19, 2013)

Bill_Lins77488 said:


> What would be wrong with that? I'd like to see one degree per month with a study session in between to discuss the lessons of the degree just witnessed. So what if it took 29 months to complete the Degrees? I think those who went through such a program would be very well grounded in Scottish Rite Freemasonry.



Nothing wrong at all. I think that would be the most ideal way in fact. I just think scheduling commitments would be a nightmare given the geographic size of some valleys. 


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## Blake Bowden (Jul 20, 2013)

Mods, why is this in the employment section?


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## Bro. Stewart P.M. (Jul 20, 2013)

Blake Bowden said:


> Mods, why is this in the employment section?



Moved.


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## Roy Vance (Jul 20, 2013)

Blake Bowden said:


> Mods, why is this in the employment section?



I'm confused. I thought this was the General Masonry section. Unless I jumped in after it was moved.


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## Bro. Stewart P.M. (Jul 20, 2013)

Roy Vance said:


> I'm confused. I thought this was the General Masonry section. Unless I jumped in after it was moved.



Yes. I just relocated the topic. Sorry for the confusion.


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## Bro_Vick (Jul 20, 2013)

JJones said:


> Indeed.  Giving the secrets of Freemasonry away en mass may make a lot of members but it's not guaranteed to make many masons.



Ohio was the first state to do it, one day classes have the same retention rate as Masons who individually take the degrees (~30%).  Personally I think that New Mexico has the right idea and its treatment of the one day classes, they have the most judicious application process.

I am not blind to the fact that every time this comes up I don't jump up and damn one day classes.  But my travels across this country have shown me that good men and good Masons are products of these classes, including some of my closest friends.  I won't post again on this, but realize that these classes aren't the destruction of Freemasonry that many make them out to be.

S&F,
-Bro Vick


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## lourocks (Jul 20, 2013)

One day classes are a joke they are banned here in ny that's horrible they still do that in some jurisdictions

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## streeter (Jul 20, 2013)

dalinkou said:


> Brothers,
> 
> First, if I am way off base and misunderstanding this post, please forgive me.  It appears that the thread pertains to the practice of initiating/passing/raising in a one-day seminar.  If I perceive this incorrectly, then delete this at your leisure.
> 
> ...



hear! hear! - brilliant...


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## lourocks (Jul 20, 2013)

What a response my brother greatly put savor the moment there is no rush its a lifetime commitment

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## LittleHunter (Jul 22, 2013)

I agree that this would be a better way to go. When I petitioned last year I actually expected a more rigorous process. As it stands, I'm glad that I was expected to learn all 3 catechisms completely. When a man Works for something he values it more highly.


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## Bill Lins (Jul 22, 2013)

Bro_Vick said:


> I think that New Mexico has the right idea and its treatment of the one day classes, they have the most judicious application process.


What do they do differently there?


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## Roy Vance (Jul 22, 2013)

I have not seen any of these one day classes, but, depending on the circumstances, I can see where there might be some advantage to a man taking one to become a Master Mason. I would not, myself, I don't think, want to do it that way, because I think that something that you earn by working for is more highly regarded than something that is given you, that is, most of the time. There *ARE* certain things that are given that cannot be earned, so don't start in on me about that. LOL.


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## MarkR (Jul 23, 2013)

crono782 said:


> Personally I think the one day classes are completely counter to the point of the degrees. Might as well just pay for the dues card and call it a day. ;P As an aside, I also think YR shouldn't be done in festival format. If there was a practical way to not do SR reunions I'd say that's better as well. Unfortunately, it would probably take an entire year to pull it off at best.
> 
> 
> Freemason Connect Mobile


Our current WM came via a one-day class, so they do work out.  We've had very few do it that way.

As far as Scottish Rite "reunions," my Valley doesn't do reunions.  We confer or communicate all 29 degrees over a ten month schedule, one night a month with a few months being twice a month.

The Minneapolis Valley is the most ambitious that I know of.  The do all 29 degrees in full form twice a year by meeting every Thursday night, and then also do a reunion weekend once a year.  So, they run through three classes a year, and you can choose whether to do them all in full form or do a reunion.


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## Brother_Steve (Jul 23, 2013)

lourocks said:


> One day classes are a joke they are banned here in ny that's horrible they still do that in some jurisdictions
> 
> Freemason Connect Mobile


I think it has its place. Military men for example should be eligible for ODC.

I will never ask someone if they were a ODCer though. I chose to go through the degrees on the advice of a friend who sparked my interest into the fraternity. I went through each degree with one month (28 days) in between.

Having said that, the hatred I see towards a one day class (not the man specifically though) is because it is making a mason on site. Here is the crux of it though. Masonry is about learning over your lifetime. 3 months or one day ... you still have your whole life to experience masonry if you are serious about it.

A ODC does not bestow any sacred knowledge to the candidate that undermines anyone who went through the degrees.

To me, the only difference between a ODC mason and a 90 day mason is that the 90 day mason can recite his EA OB and FC OB and both of you are learning the MM proficiency.

There is more to masonry than just reciting ritual. Both are green and learning regardless of the degree work.


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## nfasson (Jul 23, 2013)

As someone who is going to attend a meeting to meet the local lodge members and hope to petition to start the process, I have to say being able to complete all the degrees in one day seems, well, too easy.

I want to take my sweet time, not rush things... life is full enough of rushing things already!


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## crono782 (Jul 23, 2013)

nfasson said:


> As someone who is going to attend a meeting to meet the local lodge members and hope to petition to start the process, I have to say being able to complete all the degrees in one day seems, well, too easy.
> 
> I want to take my sweet time, not rush things... life is full enough of rushing things already!
> 
> ...



That's a good attitude to have. 


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## David N. (Jul 24, 2013)

I am only an FC, and can only speak to my experience, but I'm glad my state requires 28 days between degrees.
Those months have been spent with 3-4 nights a week studying (and getting to know my coach, whom I am now proud to call my Brother and friend, as well as the more active members and officers).
Basically immersing myself in each degree, proving proficiency, helping out with fundraisers, etc. has I believe given me a good "foundation" as well as "introduction", especially in my home lodge.
It also gave me a chance to travel around and observe several 1sts and 2nds in my jurisdiction.
I now have alot of guys from mine and neighboring lodges supporting me, and eager to attend my third.
I did not know any of these men, save one, the night of my initiation.
The only downside is that my lodge had a 3rd right before going dark for two months, and I was barely ineligible!


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## lourocks (Jul 24, 2013)

Well one a month maybe its good for you could work in my lodge besides being proficent you must prove that you are ready to advance we donot want whats called a pariot mason just because  you can memorize a ritual are you ready my lidge has set a new standerd for us in the past they were just sendin people threw  

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## Brother_Steve (Jul 26, 2013)

lourocks said:


> Well one a month maybe its good for you could work in my lodge besides being proficent you must prove that you are ready to advance we donot want whats called a pariot mason just because  you can memorize a ritual are you ready my lidge has set a new standerd for us in the past they were just sendin people threw
> 
> Sent from my GT-P3113 using Freemasonry mobile app


I went through the degrees and we have a PM who loves to talk about masonry. A few weeks after each degree, he holds a class for the degree we just went through. He breaks down the OB, lecture and charges to plain english and makes sure we understand what they mean.

I would not have such a problem with a ODC if it carried a stipulation of mandatory educational classes to go over each degree in depth.


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## lourocks (Jul 29, 2013)

Im glad My state doesn't do it we have a waiting period of 6 months in between degrees

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## Brother_Steve (Jul 29, 2013)

lourocks said:


> Im glad My state doesn't do it we have a waiting period of 6 months in between degrees
> 
> Freemason Connect Mobile


NY has a 6 month period between degrees?

That has to be rough. Many if not all states open in the third because of the incident in the 1800's so lodges could keep out pretenders to keep them from spying on the lodges to see where the money went. However I would not mind seeing lodges open in the first in today's day and age where the anti-masonic sentiment is not what it used to be.

a) you could charge dues on EA and FC masons.

b) It would wash out those not serious with the craft.

c) The time between degrees would not seem as long when participating in the business of the lodge.

d) You could vote and possibly travel easier as a card carrying EA or FC.

e) It would eliminate the one day class program because the point of the class, in my opinion, is to generate numbers for the grand lodge. EA's and FC's paying dues would supplement GL's need for it's cut and newly made masons could be educated properly without going through gutted memory work.


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## Bro Darren (Jul 29, 2013)

I found out that in Victoria (Australia) that you need to be a mason for 12 months before you can become a Master Mason.


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## lourocks (Jul 29, 2013)

Its not.a order we actually only have a 2 week rule but my lodge is setting a,new a standard for the brothers which im in full agrreiance with there is no time limit on the degrees one should be proficent in every way not be passed because they can rember a few pages just my opinion but the rule is 2 weeks between degrees in nys

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## David N. (Jul 29, 2013)

lourocks said:


> we have a waiting period of 6 months in between degrees
> 
> Freemason Connect Mobile





lourocks said:


> Its not.a order we actually only have a 2 week rule but my lodge is setting a,new a standard
> 
> Freemason Connect Mobile



So does your Lodge have a 6 month minimum between degrees?


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## dhoover (Aug 19, 2013)

I am in a unique situation. I did my EE, and FC degrees in my local Lodge, and finished my MM degree at a one day class.

having experienced both methods, I can tell you that the experience is much more personal and meaningful doing it at you local lodge.


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## Michael Hatley (Aug 19, 2013)

I think it has gotten to the point that in much of Masonry in the United States, Past Master is the new Master Mason.  Sure and it is another name and a different ball of wax.  But with lodges so small nowadays and most people going through the line in 4-5 years, and most active Masons doing so....

Obviously one day is just an introduction.  A taste.  If it gets men into the line, where the real work is at - well, thats the lot we've been dealt I reckon.

Personally I'd see the TO way of doing things....insomuch as PM was not the goal, but MM was - but in mainstream lodges it just is what it is and you gotta work with what we have.


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## JJones (Aug 19, 2013)

> Personally I'd see the TO way of doing things....insomuch as PM was not the goal, but MM was - but in mainstream lodges it just is what it is and you gotta work with what we have.



I prefer to see it this way as well.  Unfortunately it is like you say and many lodges put brothers in the East way before they are ready regardless of if they're qualified to be leaders or not.


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## dfreybur (Aug 19, 2013)

dhoover said:


> I am in a unique situation. I did my EE, and FC degrees in my local Lodge, and finished my MM degree at a one day class.



My attitude towards classes changed when a brother failed to show yup to his second degree at lodge then he did show up at a class and then became active after that.  This in Illinois where classes are FC+MM not all 3 in the same day.  Variation of a theme.


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## Rufus (Aug 21, 2013)

JJones said:


> Indeed.  Giving the secrets of Freemasonry away en mass may make a lot of members but it's not guaranteed to make many masons.



It is important not quantity but quality.


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## Gibson90kb (Aug 22, 2013)

I took the one day class. While everything was compressed , I was still able to retain almost all of the knowledge. Thank G for literature! 


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## Rufus (Aug 23, 2013)

I'm very sorry for the grammatical errors.



If you looked at human nature, then:

1. The man always wants what he does not . And trying to achieve it (get it)
This is the force that drives him.

2. when a man got what he wanted, then to lose interest.


3. The rise of classes, can reduce a person's interest to further improve.
But he's  already got something that sought, but quickly enough and now his desire is not strong, purposeful.

4.This lost personal experience.
When one person is initiated, then he has a different experience.
When several people initiated, it is quite another.
When one (1) then experiences stronger ritual feelings ,   than when obtained by a group of initiation.


I think so.


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## Benjamin Baxter (Aug 23, 2013)

The experiences that I have had going through the degrees has been a great one. I feel that having had it condensed into me day would have short-changed me a bit. There are very few circumstances that this is fair to the candidate in my opinion. Going off to serve our country and terminal illness would be my examples of these circumstances. It are these experiences that help make us better men, why should we rush that process.


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