# Widows Sons crossing state lines



## pointwithinacircle2 (Jan 3, 2018)

I have no desire to rehash the "should we or shouldn't we" debate concerning the WS.  My question is simply this: I live in a state the recognizes the WS as a legitimate Masonic organization and I am now a member.  What happens if I were to travel to a state where the WS is not considered a legitimate Masonic organization?


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## Brother JC (Jan 3, 2018)

Don’t show up to lodge wearing your patch.
Recognition of a social group is purely for joining purposes, IMO, and has nothing to do with which state you ride in.


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## Warrior1256 (Jan 3, 2018)

Brother JC said:


> Don’t show up to lodge wearing your patch.
> Recognition of a social group is purely for joining purposes, IMO, and has nothing to do with which state you ride in.


Excellent advice.


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## Glen Cook (Jan 3, 2018)

pointwithinacircle2 said:


> I have no desire to rehash the "should we or shouldn't we" debate concerning the WS.  My question is simply this: I live in a state the recognizes the WS as a legitimate Masonic organization and I am now a member.  What happens if I were to travel to a state where the WS is not considered a legitimate Masonic organization?


Just travel through a state, as compared to relocating there?  I can’t imagine any GL taking action. Simply because UT doesn’t allow WS, or UGLE doesn’t allow OES (for which we give thanks ), doesn’t mean they impose that restriction on members of other jurisdictions. Many of the US GMs who visit UGLE Communication are in OES.


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## Bloke (Jan 4, 2018)

pointwithinacircle2 said:


> I have no desire to rehash the "should we or shouldn't we" debate concerning the WS.  My question is simply this: I live in a state the recognizes the WS as a legitimate Masonic organization and I am now a member.  What happens if I were to travel to a state where the WS is not considered a legitimate Masonic organization?


Just don't tell 'em...


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## chrmc (Jan 4, 2018)

As Glen says, traveling isn't an issue, but watch out with moving there...


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## dfreybur (Jan 4, 2018)

pointwithinacircle2 said:


> I have no desire to rehash the "should we or shouldn't we" debate concerning the WS.  My question is simply this: I live in a state the recognizes the WS as a legitimate Masonic organization and I am now a member.  What happens if I were to travel to a state where the WS is not considered a legitimate Masonic organization?



Don't petition for membership a WS club based in that state.  Such clubs should not exist, but they probably do exist anyways.

Do attend a ride of your own club that happens to ride across state lines.  It's a club chartered in a state that sponsors the club.  Riding is not limited by state lines here in the US.

As to attending a blue lodge in that state, you technically don't even have to remove any WS lapel pin.  After all it's a club sponsored by one of the jurisdictions you're a member of.  But switching such a lapel pin to your pocket is a discreet nicety.


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## Warrior1256 (Jan 4, 2018)

dfreybur said:


> As to attending a blue lodge in that state, you technically don't even have to remove any WS lapel pin. After all it's a club sponsored by one of the jurisdictions you're a member of. But switching such a lapel pin to your pocket is a discreet nicety.


Sound advice.


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## Keith C (Jan 5, 2018)

dfreybur said:


> As to attending a blue lodge in that state, you technically don't even have to remove any WS lapel pin.  After all it's a club sponsored by one of the jurisdictions you're a member of.  But switching such a lapel pin to your pocket is a discreet nicety.



Unless you happen to visit PA.  In PA only Blue Lodge associated lapel pins should be worn in a Blue Lodge meeting, and then only ONE pin.  So a S&C is OK but a WS pin, Any York or Scottish rite pin, Shriner, Sojourner etc is discouraged.


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## Warrior1256 (Jan 5, 2018)

Keith C said:


> and then only ONE pin.


I like this. I limit myself to two lapel pins for each suit / sport jacket. IMHO more start to look gaudy. I have seen Brothers with both lapels totally covered in pins.


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## MarkR (Jan 6, 2018)

Freemasonry was very much based on individual autonomy.  Telling someone how many lapel pins he can wear seems to fly in the face of that freedom.  Personally, I only wear one at a time, but some very fine Masons in my lodge have needed the Masonic Lapel Extender to accommodate all the pins they wore.  And if I want to wear my VFW pin, an American flag pin, or a Scottish Rite pin, that should not be prohibited, either.


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## Warrior1256 (Jan 6, 2018)

MarkR said:


> Telling someone how many lapel pins he can wear seems to fly in the face of that freedom.


Have to respectfully disagree with you on this Brother. Limiting the number or type of lapel pin(s) is no different than requiring a coat and tie, suit, color of suit, tux or whatever the GL dress code or lodge by laws call for.


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## Keith C (Jan 6, 2018)

MarkR said:


> Freemasonry was very much based on individual autonomy.  Telling someone how many lapel pins he can wear seems to fly in the face of that freedom.  Personally, I only wear one at a time, but some very fine Masons in my lodge have needed the Masonic Lapel Extender to accommodate all the pins they wore.  And if I want to wear my VFW pin, an American flag pin, or a Scottish Rite pin, that should not be prohibited, either.



I would ask you, what is the purpose of wearing all of these pins in a Blue Lodge Meeting?  Most of the "pin lovers" I have encountered treat them like badges of honor.  The philosophy of only having one blue lodge related pin, is to maintain the principle of "Meeting on the Level."  The same reason we have a dress code, so that outward appearance doesn't denote station in life. The principle of Meeting on the Level is far more important in a Masonic setting than "individual autonomy."

If individual autonomy,  were a principle on which Freemasonry was based, we wouldn't have an essential elected dictatorship as the basis of how the lodge operates.  You wouldn't have dress codes, require permission to speak in Lodge, permission to enter and leave the lodge, etc.


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## Ripcord22A (Jan 6, 2018)

I think it’s silly.  You should encourage brothers to wear 1 or 2 appendent body pins. It can start convos


Sent from my iPhone using My Freemasonry


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## hanzosbm (Jan 7, 2018)

While I might agree with the sentiment, and personally am not a fan of the hundred lapel pin look, I think proscribing the details of a man's accessories goes too far.


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## Bro. Stewart P.M. (Jan 7, 2018)

Ripcord22A said:


> I think it’s silly.  You should encourage brothers to wear 1 or 2 appendent body pins. It can start convos
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using My Freemasonry



I’d like to be a fly on the wall when someone either friend or family locates and goes through my pin & coin collection... A conversation starter, years post mortem.


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## Companion Joe (Jan 7, 2018)

I have a pretty set rotation of pins, and I only ever wear one at a time* not for Masonic reasons but because I'm sort of particular about the way I dress.
Non-Masonic function - Plain S&C pin so there won't be any doubt among the general public.
Blue Lodge events not at my lodge and 3rd Degrees at my lodge - PM pin.
Anything else  - KYCH or RCC (just depending on what I feel like).
Anything YRC related - YRC pin.

*The only time I wear more than one is on my red Chapter coat. I don't like doing it, but they are all important. Left - KYCH and RCC paired together. Right - A special recognition pin by the Grand Chapter.


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## Warrior1256 (Jan 7, 2018)

Bro. Stewart P.M. said:


> I’d like to be a fly on the wall when someone either friend or family locates and goes through my pin & coin collection... A conversation starter, years post mortem.


Yeah, I have a bunch of them but only wear one or two at a time.


Companion Joe said:


> Non-Masonic function - Plain S&C pin so there won't be any doubt among the general public.
> Blue Lodge events not at my lodge and 3rd Degrees at my lodge - PM pin.
> Anything else - KYCH or RCC (just depending on what I feel like).
> Anything YRC related - YRC pin.
> ...


Good plan!


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## Companion Joe (Jan 7, 2018)

I usually wear my KYCH jewel to any degree work whether at my lodge or visiting. In which case, I don't wear a KYCH lapel pin. I don't wear it (most of the time) to stated meetings.


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## chrmc (Jan 7, 2018)

Companion Joe said:


> *The only time I wear more than one is on my red Chapter coat. I don't like doing it, but they are all important. Left - KYCH and RCC paired together. Right - A special recognition pin by the Grand Chapter.



If one were to be cheeky one could comment that they are only important because you want the recognition and show to others that you've obtained that honor. No one makes you put them on if you don't like it. 

I totally get it, and most of us probably still struggle with the same thing, but if we look at it from a Masonic perspective it's a classic sign of the Ego still talking that hasn't been overcome.


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## Bro. Stewart P.M. (Jan 7, 2018)

I think we are really loosing focus on our Fraternity when the debate is of lapel pins.

Just my addition to the obviously diverted original discussion.


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## Companion Joe (Jan 7, 2018)

chrmc said:


> If one were to be cheeky one could comment that they are only important because you want the recognition and show to others that you've obtained that honor. No one makes you put them on if you don't like it.
> 
> I totally get it, and most of us probably still struggle with the same thing, but if we look at it from a Masonic perspective it's a classic sign of the Ego still talking that hasn't been overcome.



I've _earned_ the honor, so I am qualified to wear them.


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## Warrior1256 (Jan 7, 2018)

Companion Joe said:


> I've _earned_ the honor, so I am qualified to wear them.


Absolutely correct!


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## chrmc (Jan 7, 2018)

Companion Joe said:


> I've _earned_ the honor, so I am qualified to wear them.



Absolutely. Never implied that you hadn't and that they aren't fully deserved. But in your original posted you commented on how you didn't like wearing all three of them, and as I replied, no one is forcing that. 
I totally get why we all like to show off the accomplishments that we have earned, but you have to agree that it is the Ego talking when that happens. 

Why else are you wearing the pins when you don't to?


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## Keith C (Jan 7, 2018)

chrmc said:


> If one were to be cheeky one could comment that they are only important because you want the recognition and show to others that you've obtained that honor. No one makes you put them on if you don't like it.
> 
> I totally get it, and most of us probably still struggle with the same thing, but if we look at it from a Masonic perspective it's a classic sign of the Ego still talking that hasn't been overcome.



You put it far better than I.


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## Companion Joe (Jan 8, 2018)

chrmc said:


> Absolutely. Never implied that you hadn't and that they aren't fully deserved. But in your original posted you commented on how you didn't like wearing all three of them, and as I replied, no one is forcing that.
> I totally get why we all like to show off the accomplishments that we have earned, but you have to agree that it is the Ego talking when that happens.
> 
> Why else are you wearing the pins when you don't to?



Nobody forces anyone to wear anything with a S&C on it either. When one wears a Masonic ring in public is it because their ego wants the recognition of being a Freemason?


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## Dontrell Stroman (Jan 8, 2018)

Glen Cook said:


> Just travel through a state, as compared to relocating there?  I can’t imagine any GL taking action. Simply because UT doesn’t allow WS, or UGLE doesn’t allow OES (for which we give thanks ), doesn’t mean they impose that restriction on members of other jurisdictions. Many of the US GMs who visit UGLE Communication are in OES.


Glen cook, why are the OES not recognized by the UGLE and why do yall give thanks ?

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## Warrior1256 (Jan 8, 2018)

Companion Joe said:


> When one wears a Masonic ring in public is it because their ego wants the recognition of being a Freemason?


Good question.


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## chrmc (Jan 8, 2018)

Companion Joe said:


> Nobody forces anyone to wear anything with a S&C on it either. When one wears a Masonic ring in public is it because their ego wants the recognition of being a Freemason?



Yes, to a certain extent. But also because of pride. However I think the important difference is whether it is something that shows an affiliation or a distinction of honor. One shows "see what I'm a member of" and the other is more "see what I've accomplished." It's some of the same parts of the ego that drives it, but I think there are vital differences. 

I do however think you're sidestepping some of my original questions


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## Glen Cook (Jan 8, 2018)

Travelling Man91 said:


> Glen cook, why are the OES not recognized by the UGLE and why do yall give thanks ?
> 
> Sent from my LG-LS997 using My Freemasonry mobile app


“The Board is also aware that there exist other bodies not directly imitative of pure antient Masonry, but which by implication introduce Freemasonry, such as the Order of the Eastern Star. Membership of such bodies, attendance at their meetings, or participation in their ceremonies is incompatible with membership of this Grand Lodge.”

The Thanks comment was an apparently poor joke.


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## Dontrell Stroman (Jan 8, 2018)

Glen Cook said:


> “The Board is also aware that there exist other bodies not directly imitative of pure antient Masonry, but which by implication introduce Freemasonry, such as the Order of the Eastern Star. Membership of such bodies, attendance at their meetings, or participation in their ceremonies is incompatible with membership of this Grand Lodge.”
> 
> The Thanks comment was an apparently poor joke.


I figured you were joking but at the same time I could understand why one would only want to be a apart of just masonry

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## Dontrell Stroman (Jan 8, 2018)

Do you brothers consider the OES to be a Masonic organization ?

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## Companion Joe (Jan 8, 2018)

chrmc said:


> Yes, to a certain extent. But also because of pride. However I think the important difference is whether it is something that shows an affiliation or a distinction of honor. One shows "see what I'm a member of" and the other is more "see what I've accomplished." It's some of the same parts of the ego that drives it, but I think there are vital differences.
> 
> I do however think you're sidestepping some of my original questions



I'm not intentionally sidestepping anything. If it's about wearing multiple pins, to me it's a style issue. I wear nice suits to Masonic functions. Putting a bunch of pins all over the lapel of a suit is tacky. I don't wear running shoes or caps when I wear a suit either.

KYCH and RCC pins show affiliation. The KYCH priory and the RCC conclave are separate bodies to which members belong. You can't apply for membership. You have to earn it. Perhaps the real issue is not ego but envy.


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## Warrior1256 (Jan 8, 2018)

Companion Joe said:


> I wear nice suits to Masonic functions. Putting a bunch of pins all over the lapel of a suit is tacky. I don't wear running shoes or caps when I wear a suit either.


Agreed.


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## dfreybur (Jan 8, 2018)

Keith C said:


> I would ask you, what is the purpose of wearing all of these pins in a Blue Lodge Meeting?



The same pattern as a Scout wearing a sash of merit badges or a military member wearing a placard of medals.  They are conversation starters.  They are a record of earned achievement.  They show an one-going pattern of being active in the order.  They are a walking resume.

They also require education by the person viewing them.  If you don't know the difference between a Silver Star and a Good Conduct, who's issue is it that you think the medals on the Master Chief PO's placard make him a "pin collector"?  Or Eagle versus a single-hobby merit badge.  Or a Golden Trowel pin versus a pin that commemorates visiting a lodge.

Given the educational requirement aspect they can also range from an inside joke through an old boys club.  Sort of like the childrens' game duck-duck-goose, the two types of bird sure look a lot alike and it makes for a fun game.


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