# Everyone Participate.. !



## owls84 (Dec 8, 2009)

Ok, you are a voting member of the Grand West. We have the ability to have visitation with the Prince Hall Grand Lodge of Texas, F&AM. The doors are tiled and the vote it to be taken. I want to know would you allow the visitation between the two.

Please everyone Vote. I honestly would like to see if this would go over. It is totally anonymous so vote how you really feel.


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## Bill Lins (Dec 8, 2009)

So far, it's me & you, Bubba!


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## Blake Bowden (Dec 8, 2009)

I was looking for the "Hell Yes" option.


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## Jay (Dec 9, 2009)

Wellllll.. . Tell me this Owles, Are YOU going to have to be there?? See I'm kind of funny about just who I sit in lodge with.....HAHA LOL... ...But for real I dont care about the color of a mans skin as much as his conduct and the character of his hart, So my vote... YES!


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## Bigmel (Dec 9, 2009)

I Voted Yes, They are no different than any other Grand Jurisdiction recognized by GLOT


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## rhitland (Dec 9, 2009)

Vote brethren beginning on Josh's right.


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## JTM (Dec 9, 2009)

i don't think we have a good representation of texas masonry on these forums, so the voting might be a bit biased.  

that being said, i voted yes.


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## TCShelton (Dec 9, 2009)

JTM said:


> i don't think we have a good representation of texas masonry on these forums, so the voting might be a bit biased.
> 
> that being said, i voted yes.



+1.


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## jonesvilletexas (Dec 10, 2009)

The Prince Hall Grand Lodge has not asked us to allow the visitation.


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## rhitland (Dec 10, 2009)

jonesvilletexas said:


> The Prince Hall Grand Lodge has not asked us to allow the visitation.



That is not correct or at least from what I have been told. PHGL was looking for full recognition from us to pursue recognition with another GL not sure which but I believe it was across the pond point being they came to us with a compact approved by their GL that requested full recognition including visitation.   I have yet to be able to find the compact signed and I know I will never get the original so I see know real way of knowing this is true or not expect for to take the Mason who told me at his word.  

Even if the PHGL had not asked what would it hurt us to even if it breaks tradition in the since the new guy has to ask. There is no law saying we cannot ask. Plus if we do not start covering ourselves on this issue we might find ourselves held liable for something crazy in this "politically correct sue your butt off" world we live in.


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## Traveling Man (Dec 28, 2009)

rhitland said:


> Plus if we do not start covering ourselves on this issue we might find ourselves held liable for something crazy in this "politically correct sue your butt off" world we live in.



Or the very least be able to have military lodges on base, not demit because of some ubiquitous clause during the federal judge screening process and a whole lot of other public/political offices. 

And those are just starters... VBG


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## TexMass (Jan 3, 2010)

You know my vote.


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## Benton (Dec 11, 2010)

I know of no reason why we shouldn't have visitation.


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## blackbeard (Dec 11, 2010)

jonesvilletexas said:


> The Prince Hall Grand Lodge has not asked us to allow the visitation.


 have YOU asked THEM?...just sayin.  it's a moot point in my jurisdiction, we have recognized each other for quite some time now.


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## JohnnyFlotsam (Dec 11, 2010)

I'm wondering if any of the (at present) eight who voted "no", will ever have the guts to try to defend their position.


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## Bro. Stewart P.M. (Dec 11, 2010)

YES!

Not only YES but HELL YES!!! This recognition AND visitation is long, long over due.


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## Bill Lins (Dec 11, 2010)

jonesvilletexas said:


> The Prince Hall Grand Lodge has not asked us to allow the visitation.


 
This statement is no longer true, according to PGM Harrison.


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## ShadyGrove821 (Dec 12, 2010)

Yes, yes, a thousand times yes!


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## Dave in Waco (Dec 13, 2010)

I vote "yes"!!


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## dhouseholder (Dec 13, 2010)

rhitland said:


> Even if the PHGL had not asked what would it hurt us to even if it breaks tradition in the since the new guy has to ask.



Besides, all it takes is for one GL to ask. I'd really like to think that it would be embarrassing for either GL to turn the other away.


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## Tony Siciliano (Apr 15, 2011)

GLoNC finally recognized PHM last year.  

In my Masonic experience, the brethren in PHM are some of the most enthusiastic and learned Freemasons I have ever met.  

Unfortunately, PHM is a target for MANY, MANY bogus African-American Grand Lodges.  There are 16 bogus GLs in Texas...


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## Jacob Johnson (Apr 15, 2011)

I like "traveling". If we allowed visitation, I'd LOVE to go visit a PH lodge. I can't think of any reason to disallow visitation. If the traditions are THAT different, just restrict visitation to MMs only.

and i did vote yes.


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## poppatattoo (Apr 15, 2011)

As a Prince Hall Mason I would love to see how the 4 letters do it, I know things can't be that different.  When this is allowed come and see us Pride Of The South lodge 324


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## Tony Siciliano (Apr 17, 2011)

"the 4 letters"?  I've never heard that before.  What does that mean?


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## Jacob Johnson (Apr 17, 2011)

i think it means AFAM vs PHA


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## Bill Lins (Apr 17, 2011)

AF&AM vs. F&AM


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## Tony Siciliano (Apr 17, 2011)

Got it.  That's what I thought!


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## barryguitar (Apr 18, 2011)

In this hypothetical situation, Are they offering to turn in their Grand Charter, and come in under the jurisdiction of the Grand Lodge of Texas, and agreeing to abide by the Laws there-of?
Then Yes, absolutely.


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## Beathard (Apr 18, 2011)

Neither side is likely to ever turn in their grand charter to join the other. Visitation is probably the next step.


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## Bill Lins (Apr 19, 2011)

barryguitar said:


> In this hypothetical situation, Are they offering to turn in their Grand Charter, and come in under the jurisdiction of the Grand Lodge of Texas, and agreeing to abide by the Laws there-of?
> Then Yes, absolutely.


 
I take your answer to mean that, if they remained independent, you would not allow visitation- is that correct?


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## Beathard (Apr 19, 2011)

Other grand lodges are independent (e.g. Maine), yet we still can visit. Texas says PH is regular, but does not allow visitation. It's just strange.


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## Brent Heilman (Apr 19, 2011)

Beathard said:


> Other grand lodges are independent (e.g. Maine), yet we still can visit. Texas says PH is regular, but does not allow visitation. It's just strange.


 
I believe Oklahoma is the same way also. Indeed it is strange. I don't agree with it and hope that in the future it will change.


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## Txmason (Aug 2, 2011)

No I would not want it


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## Brent Heilman (Aug 2, 2011)

Brent Heilman said:


> I believe Oklahoma is the same way also. Indeed it is strange. I don't agree with it and hope that in the future it will change.



I was wrong on the above statement. Oklahoma does allow visitation. I apologize for my misinformation.


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## Bill Lins (Aug 2, 2011)

Txmason said:


> No I would not want it



Would you mind telling us why not?


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## Bill Lins (Aug 2, 2011)

Brent Heilman said:


> I was wrong on the above statement. Oklahoma does allow visitation. I apologize for my misinformation.



I seem to remember that, when Oklahoma first recognized PHA, they did not allow visitation but have since changed their minds.


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## Brent Heilman (Aug 2, 2011)

Bill_Lins77488 said:
			
		

> I seem to remember that, when Oklahoma first recognized PHA, they did not allow visitation but have since changed their minds.



You are correct sir. When they first did it they only recognized them with no visitation. A committee was formed that came up with the guidelines that allowed visitation.

Sent from my iPhone using Freemasonry


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## Bill Lins (Aug 2, 2011)

Brent Heilman said:


> A committee was formed that came up with the guidelines that allowed visitation.



Any chance you could post a copy of those guidelines for us?


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## Brent Heilman (Aug 3, 2011)

View attachment 1954


No problem. I posted a power point presentation on another thread but I don't remember which one. The power point will show both the old compact, the proposed changes, and the new compact that was signed. Anyway, here it is.


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## Mac (Aug 3, 2011)

Thank you for sharing, brother.


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## Brent Heilman (Aug 3, 2011)

You're welcome. Hopefully Texas can follow Oklahoma for a change instead of the other way around.

Sent from my iPhone using Freemasonry


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## LukeD (Aug 3, 2011)

I voted yes, because it would be interesting to visit a prince hall lodge, and I have a few friends and coworkers who are PHA. Do prince hall masons share the same enthusiasm as some of the brothers on this thread concerning recognition and visitation?


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## TCShelton (Aug 4, 2011)

LukeD said:


> Do prince hall masons share the same enthusiasm as some of the brothers on this thread concerning recognition and visitation?



Yep.


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