# Widows Sons



## rhitland (Sep 15, 2010)

Can anybody shed some light on this group?  I had a brother ask me what they are all about but I was clueless.

http://www.widowssons.com/


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## Bboc (Sep 15, 2010)

What do you want to know their about us page pretty much sums them up.


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## tomasball (Sep 16, 2010)

I don't have a current copy of Grand Lodge Laws in front of me.  Are they on the list of approved organizations?  We had a bit of a controversy a couple of years ago concerning approval of masonic biker clubs.


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## Bboc (Sep 16, 2010)

I'm not sure. Dose that list change from state to state. They do have a list of their chapters on their site. If you call your grand lodge I'm sure they will know. I'm in tn. So I don't know how much I can help.


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## rhitland (Sep 16, 2010)

That was the main thing I was wondering if it was legal or not in TX?  I believe at GL 2 years ago this very group was denied recognition which I was not sure if a TX mason can legally be apart of it?


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## david918 (Sep 16, 2010)

I don't think they are on the approved list here in Tx just the FMRC.I do know they are approved in almost all of the rest of the states as well as overseas.


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## tomasball (Sep 16, 2010)

david918 said:


> I don't think they are on the approved list here in Tx just the FMRC.I do know they are approved in almost all of the rest of the states as well as overseas.


 
If that is the case, then any mason belonging to it, (and there would seem to be many) is subject to disciplinary action.


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## tomasball (Sep 16, 2010)

I meant, of course that any TEXAS mason belonging to it is subject to disciplinary action.


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## owls84 (Sep 16, 2010)

That would appear to be the case because there are a list of chapters in Texas. 

Texas
Tribe of Naphtali (Dallas East)
Rough Ashlars (Dallas West)
Stonecutters (Fort Worth)
East Wind Riders (Terrell)
Tribe of Huaco (Waco)
King Solomons Travelers (Austin)
Ancient Brothers (Odessa)
Sons of Solomon Chapter


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## LRG (Sep 16, 2010)

The picture with the female was the cause of the no-vote from Texas GL. As I know it, FreeMasons Riding Club is the only riding club approved by Texas GL


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## JOHN STONE (Sep 16, 2010)

tomasball said:


> if that is the case, then any mason belonging to it, (and there would seem to be many) is subject to disciplinary action.


 i believe that statement is in-correct...the widow's sons are not recognized by grand lodge of texas, but neither is the shrine or scottish rite. Just not
being recognized, does not mean it is a clandestine group subjecting any member to disciplinary action by the grand lodge. The widow's sons are simply a bunch of master masons that enjoy motorcycles and foster masonry
with our rides. Contact bro. Roger moore, widows sons grand lodge president @ 214-734-1147 for further information. Sincerely,
john stone
tribe of napthali


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## tomasball (Sep 16, 2010)

I would refer you to the Laws of the Grand Lodge of Texas, Article 505, part 22.  It is a masonic disciplinary violation for a Texas mason to "Participate in, approve, or aid in the formation of any organization predicating its membership on Masonic membership or in the formation of any local chapters or groups, by whatever name called, of any organization predicating membership on Masonic membership.  It shall be a Masonic offense for any Texas Mason to be, remain, or continue as, a Member of any organization predicating its membership or affiliation on Masonic membership unless such organization is now currently approved or recognized in Article 225 or Article 225a."  Article 225 lists the organizations approved by the Grand Lodge of Texas, and yes, that list included the Shrine and the Scottish Rite.  

I don't see how there could be room for any confusion here.

now, if the Widow's Sons allowed women or non-masons as members, they would not fall under article 505. But if you have to be a mason to join, then in Texas you answer to the laws of the Grand Lodge of Texas.


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## rwmoore (Oct 10, 2010)

tomasball said:


> I would refer you to the Laws of the Grand Lodge of Texas, Article 505, part 22.  It is a masonic disciplinary violation for a Texas mason to "Participate in, approve, or aid in the formation of any organization predicating its membership on Masonic membership or in the formation of any local chapters or groups, by whatever name called, of any organization predicating membership on Masonic membership.  It shall be a Masonic offense for any Texas Mason to be, remain, or continue as, a Member of any organization predicating its membership or affiliation on Masonic membership unless such organization is now currently approved or recognized in Article 225 or Article 225a."  Article 225 lists the organizations approved by the Grand Lodge of Texas, and yes, that list included the Shrine and the Scottish Rite.
> 
> I don't see how there could be room for any confusion here.
> 
> now, if the Widow's Sons allowed women or non-masons as members, they would not fall under article 505. But if you have to be a mason to join, then in Texas you answer to the laws of the Grand Lodge of Texas.



Brother,
You are correct, "IF" the Widows Sons of Texas predicated it's membership on being a Mason we WOULD be in violation.  It is nowhere in our By-Laws that it is said that you have to be a Mason to join or be a member of the Widows Sons of Texas.  We are set up just like the Lodge, with a Grand Chapter and subordinate Chapters, and each are autonomous to operate as they wish.  The other misconception is that we are a "Motorcycle Club" which we are not, we are a riding club.  Unlike the FMRC, which is recognized, we DO NOT belong to the Confederation of Clubs, or COC, which is operated by the Bandidos, BoozeFighters and other Motorcycle Clubs of local and National origin. We do not seek their recognition, or approval.  We are just a group of men who share a common bond and wish to ride and fellowship together. 

If you have any other questions, feel free to contact me privately.

Roger Moore
President
Widows Sons of Texas
Grand Chapter


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## Blake Bowden (Oct 10, 2010)

Thanks for the info!


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## Wingnut (Oct 10, 2010)

rwmoore said:


> Brother,
> The other misconception is that we are a "Motorcycle Club" which we are not, we are a riding club.



True but it does give the impression of a M/C with the 3pc cut.



rwmoore said:


> Unlike the FMRC, which is recognized, we DO NOT belong to the Confederation of Clubs, or COC, which is operated by the Bandidos, BoozeFighters and other Motorcycle Clubs of local and National origin. We do not seek their recognition, or approval.



Yes the FMRC is a member of the CoC but that has NOTHING to do with GLoTX recognition.  As you know FMRC was granted recognition at the same GL communication that the WS was considered, approved and later denied.  No need to go into the details here.

For those that dont know the 'biker world' is a very different world than many are used to.  Its really a matter of respect and recognition.  The Confederation of Clubs is a way to eliminate a lot of the issues that have come up in many parts of the country between the Dominate Clubs and minor clubs.  The CoC is not just made up of M/C but Riding Clubs and independents as well.  Being a part of the CoC does not make you a part of any 1% club or M/C.  CLICK HERE if you wish to learn more about the difference between a M/C and R/C and HERE for CoC information!

Your comments seem to be implying that FMRC is a M/C or part of 1% world.  I know  that was not your intention but those that dont know otherwise may assume that's what you meant.


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## rwmoore (Oct 11, 2010)

rwmoore said:


> Brother,
> You are correct, "IF" the Widows Sons of Texas predicated it's membership on being a Mason we WOULD be in violation.  It is nowhere in our By-Laws that it is said that you have to be a Mason to join or be a member of the Widows Sons of Texas.  We are set up just like the Lodge, with a Grand Chapter and subordinate Chapters, and each are autonomous to operate as they wish.  The other misconception is that we are a "Motorcycle Club" which we are not, we are a riding club.  Unlike the FMRC, which is recognized, we DO NOT belong to the Confederation of Clubs, or COC, which is operated by the Bandidos, BoozeFighters and other Motorcycle Clubs of local and National origin. We do not seek their recognition, or approval.  We are just a group of men who share a common bond and wish to ride and fellowship together.
> 
> If you have any other questions, feel free to contact me privately.
> ...




Brother,
I received your PM but cannot respond due to not having posted enough times.  Please send me an email address so that I can respond, I have some good information for you that I think will ease your mind.
Fraternally,
Roger


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## rwmoore (Oct 11, 2010)

Wingnut said:


> True but it does give the impression of a M/C with the 3pc cut.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Brother Wingnut,
You are correct, I did not mean to imply anything other than association with the group itself. As far as the cut, or vest, our Chapter cuts are 2 pc. and designed that way to avoid the problems you mentioned.  We only wqnt to ride, fellowship and have fun.
Fraternally
Roger "007" Moore
Metropolitan #1182 (Senior Deacon)
Widows Sons of Texas


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## tomasball (Oct 11, 2010)

rwmoore said:


> Brother,
> I received your PM but cannot respond due to not having posted enough times.  Please send me an email address so that I can respond, I have some good information for you that I think will ease your mind.
> Fraternally,
> Roger


 
Okay, I messaged you my email address


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## kmfisher1 (Oct 15, 2010)

I personally know several good Brothers that belong to this group.
As MM we all work very hard every day to protect & project the positve image of ourselves and our beloved fraternity.
Whether we belong to any other organizations or appendant bodies we have our blue lodge obligations to uphold in our daily lives. 
Applying the golden rule to everyone we come in contact with in our daily lives does so much in showing the world who and what we are. 
Ride safe!


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## TCShelton (Oct 15, 2010)

Out of curiousity, what was the reasoning behind the Widow's Sons being denied by GL?


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## owls84 (Oct 15, 2010)

LRG said:


> The picture with the female was the cause of the no-vote from Texas GL. As I know it, FreeMasons Riding Club is the only riding club approved by Texas GL


 
I think this was the reason Tom.


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## Wingnut (Oct 16, 2010)

That was a big part of it...  There were some others but Ill let Bro Moore reply to that part.


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## tomasball (Oct 18, 2010)

rwmoore said:


> Brother,
> I received your PM but cannot respond due to not having posted enough times.  Please send me an email address so that I can respond, I have some good information for you that I think will ease your mind.
> Fraternally,
> Roger



Well, I sent my email a week ago, and no response.  If he has some information, I would like to hear it.


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## owls84 (Oct 18, 2010)

Why doesn't someone just send a request for a Grand Master's Decision on this? If it was rejected by the Grand Lodge body for recognition I am confused as to how it would be legal. I really don't know though.


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## LRG (Oct 18, 2010)

It was rejected to a re-vote and from the way the story goes, it was passed and all the supporters left in celebration. Well, while they were gone, it came up for vote again and it got voted down. IMHO

I am more than certain that others with more knowledge than I,could shed further light


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## Bill Lins (Oct 18, 2010)

Best I can tell, they're claiming that they do not restrict membership to Masons only, thus exempting them from Art. 225(a). 

What happened to them @ Grand Lodge was that their request for recognition was approved, then Bro. Duncan Chapman moved for reconsideration, citing their "naked lady" logo. His motion was approved & the WS request was denied upon reconsideration.


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## tomasball (Oct 18, 2010)

...and so they decided they didn't really need Grand Lodge recognition, and went on like it never happened.


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## Bill Lins (Oct 18, 2010)

Seems that way...


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## Blake Bowden (Oct 19, 2010)

So they didn't get approval because of a logo?


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## Hippie19950 (Oct 19, 2010)

Blake Bowden said:


> So they didn't get approval because of a logo?


 
Pretty much so, and pretty much the reason most of us are FMRC. I prefer the "Blessing" of the GLoTx myself...


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## TCShelton (Oct 19, 2010)

tomasball said:


> ...and so they decided they didn't really need Grand Lodge recognition, and went on like it never happened.



Lol, nice.


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## Crash (Oct 19, 2010)

Why all the questions, if they dont fall under the grand lodge. We cannot tell them they can't wear the sqaure and compass after all they are Master Mason and are granted all the right there within.


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## tomasball (Oct 19, 2010)

Crash said:


> Why all the questions, if they dont fall under the grand lodge. We cannot tell them they can't wear the sqaure and compass after all they are Master Mason and are granted all the right there within.


 
I don't really understand why you think they might not fall under the grand lodge.  The Grand Lodge is the supreme authority for all masonic activity within the State of Texas.  Shrine, Scottish Rite, York Rite, Grotto, Eastern Star, High Twelve...none can exist in Texas without the approval of the Grand Lodge of Texas.

I also don't understand why Bro. Moore says they don't require their members to be Masons, since both their state and national websites say it is a requirement.


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