# Boaz Jakin



## Daniele

Zoob e Nikai In an old Italian ritual of 1860 the veil of boaz Jakin falls giving different meaning to the two pillars, the words are reversed, someone is aware of it among your rituals?

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## coachn

Daniele said:


> Zoob e Nikai In an old Italian ritual of 1860 the veil of boaz Jakin falls giving different meaning to the two pillars, the words are reversed, someone is aware of it among your rituals?
> 
> Sent from my DIG-L01 using My Freemasonry mobile app


Where are you a Freemason?


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## Daniele

coachn said:


> Where are you a Freemason?


I am a Freemason in Catania Sicily, Serenissima Gran Loggia Italian Scottish descent from Piazza del Gesù.

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## coachn

Daniele said:


> I am a Freemason in Catania Sicily, Serenissima Gran Loggia Italian Scottish descent from Piazza del Gesù.
> 
> Sent from my DIG-L01 using My Freemasonry mobile app


Thank you?


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## Matt L

Daniele said:


> I am a Freemason in Catania Sicily, Serenissima Gran Loggia Italian Scottish descent from Piazza del Gesù.
> 
> Sent from my DIG-L01 using My Freemasonry mobile app


Benvenuto nel forum, mio fratello. Vengo dall'eredità siciliana. La mia famiglia è originaria di Castelbuono. Ho famiglia a Sciacca e Siracusa. Nessuno è massone. La mia famiglia è arrivata negli Stati Uniti nel 1903.


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## Daniele

Matt L said:


> Benvenuto nel forum, mio fratello. Vengo dall'eredità siciliana. La mia famiglia è originaria di Castelbuono. Ho famiglia a Sciacca e Siracusa. Nessuno è massone. La mia famiglia è arrivata negli Stati Uniti nel 1903.


Grazie fratello mio, sono contento di aver trovato un compaesano di origine siciliana,
Dove vivi adesso?

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## Matt L

[QUOTE = "Daniele, post: 190949, member: 20869"] Thank you my brother, I am happy to have found a fellow citizen of Sicilian origin,
Where you live now?

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My family settled in Brooklyn, New York.  I live in Tennessee.


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## Daniele

beautiful, my dream to visit the United States of America. if by chance you should come to Sicily I would be pleased to meet you and welcome you in my Lodge.

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## Warrior1256

Daniele said:


> Zoob e Nikai In an old Italian ritual of 1860 the veil of boaz Jakin falls giving different meaning to the two pillars, the words are reversed, someone is aware of it among your rituals?


Huh?


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## Daniele

Warrior1256 said:


> Huh?


the Masonic ritual of the 30th Degree, published secretly in Naples, in 1869. About the sacred words of the 1st and 2nd Degree, says in the note on p. 15 that "out of curiosity of our readers, we do not want to deprive them of our observation made by us (Domenico Angerà) on the island of Malta in time of our thirteen year old exile. By attending to us the Masonic works that were celebrated on that island, and seeing the initials "B" and "J" of the sacred words of the first two Symbolic Degrees ie "Booz" and "Jackin", reading for said words, that is, reading them on the reverse side from right to left, there were the words "Zoob" and "Nikai". Among the Maltese, who speak a corrupt Arabic language, these two words are those for which they express themselves [...], that is, two ugly words




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## CLewey44

Booz and Jackin....sounds like a miserable Saturday night....sorry, had to...


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## coachn

Daniele said:


> the Masonic ritual of the 30th Degree, published secretly in Naples, in 1869. About the sacred words of the 1st and 2nd Degree, says in the note on p. 15 that "out of curiosity of our readers, we do not want to deprive them of our observation made by us (Domenico Angerà) on the island of Malta in time of our thirteen year old exile. By attending to us the Masonic works that were celebrated on that island, and seeing the initials "B" and "J" of the *sacred words of the first two Symbolic Degrees* ie "Booz" and "Jackin", reading for said words, that is, reading them on the reverse side from right to left, there were the words "Zoob" and "Nikai". Among the Maltese, who speak a corrupt Arabic language, these two words are those for which they express themselves [...], that is, two ugly words
> Sent from my DIG-L01 using My Freemasonry mobile app


All well and good, with this one exception: _There are no sacred words within Freemasonry._


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## Daniele

coachn said:


> All well and good, with this one exception: _There are no sacred words within Freemasonry._


why do not there exist sacred words and passages in your rituals? The Fr. '. Arturo Reghini has written a book on sacred words and the passage of Freemasonry. great book!

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## goomba

The order and spelling of various words differ between some grand jurisdictions for various reasons.  On top of that the ritual can vary greatly between different grand jurisdictions.  I think the misunderstanding is because of language.  I don't think sacred would be how we explain them.


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## Warrior1256

CLewey44 said:


> Booz and Jackin....sounds like a miserable Saturday night....sorry, had to...


Lol!


goomba said:


> The order and spelling of various words differ between some grand jurisdictions for various reasons. On top of that the ritual can vary greatly between different grand jurisdictions. I think the misunderstanding is because of language


Yep.


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## dfreybur

Daniele said:


> why do not there exist sacred words and passages in your rituals?



We are a fraternity not a religion.  There are points in our degrees where some religious texts get quoted, but which ones vary by country and region.


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## coachn

Daniele said:


> why do not there exist sacred words and passages in your rituals? The Fr. '. Arturo Reghini has written a book on sacred words and the passage of Freemasonry. great book!
> 
> Sent from my DIG-L01 using My Freemasonry mobile app


A valid question, albeit, very off the point.

You claimed in your post that the words in question are sacred.  They are not.  They are words that come from scripture.  They are not however sacred in and of themselves as applied to Freemasonry itself and they are not representative of any words that Freemasonry holds as sacred.  

As posted elsewhere.  Freemasonry is not a religion.  There are no sacred words within its ritual.  It may quote sacred texts, but that does not mean what it quotes is sacred to Freemasonry and are Freemasonry's sacred words.  They are not.

Additionally, I suspect your statement, "why do not there exist sacred words and passages in your rituals?" is telling me that you may not be a Freemason.  I shall chalk this up to a language challenge for now.


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## Warrior1256

coachn said:


> Additionally, I suspect your statement, "why do not there exist sacred words and passages in your rituals?" is telling me that you may not be a Freemason.


I agree.


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## Daniele

I'm sorry you think it's not a Freemason, but they are! I have no knowledge of the rituals of other countries, but in Italy in the ritual of the three degrees sacred words are mentioned.

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## Daniele

I can not attach files from the phone to send a copy of the ritual but there are several on the internet, and mention sacred words

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## Daniele

The Expert leads the Neophyte first from the 2nd Supervisor and then from the 1st Supervisor. They will ask him for the Order, the Sign, the Touch and the Holy Word.






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## Daniele

This is a passage from the ritual ... Where the sign, the tact and the sacred word is mentioned  

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## Daniele

http://www.stichtingargus.nl/vrijmetselarij/s/goi_r1.html. I enclose a site where there is an Italian ritual that is similar to what they have in our institution

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## Daniele

I am very saddened not to recognize myself as a freemason brother, because my brothers recognize me for this, even if I have raised this hope I have made my small contribution and have

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## Daniele

Made known an aspect of Freemasonry (Italian). I said.

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## CLewey44

Could be a translation issue. Don't weat it.


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## Glen Cook

Daniele said:


> I am a Freemason in Catania Sicily, Serenissima Gran Loggia Italian Scottish descent from Piazza del Gesù.
> 
> Sent from my DIG-L01 using My Freemasonry mobile app


And so not in amity with either Grand Orient or the Regular Grand Lodge of Italy?


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## hfmm97

The term “sacra” as in “parola sacra” apparently has a shade of meaning other than “holy” or “sacred” - I don’t know much Italian, but in other languages which I do know, “heaven” and “sky” are both “cielo” in Spanish.


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## hfmm97

For Fr Daniele - “sacra” oltre parola per “segretto”?


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## hfmm97

Could “sacra” be another word for “secret”?


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## coachn

I've seen these types of queries go sideways very quickly...


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## Daniele

In every degree the word of passage and the sacred one expressly recall a peculiar aspect of the degree itself and therefore whenever they are remembered or pronounced they indicate to the Massone the commitment taken 

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## hfmm97

I think that Daniele is trying to discuss esoteric work which I thought was not allowed in this forum


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## hfmm97

Parole sacra - if you mean the esoteric word of the degree then I understand esoteric work is NOT to be discussed in this open forum.


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## Daniele

I apologize if I have created confusion and I have not respected the forum rules

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## hfmm97

Daniele said:


> http://www.stichtingargus.nl/vrijmetselarij/s/goi_r1.html. I enclose a site where there is an Italian ritual that is similar to what they have in our institution
> 
> Sent from my DIG-L01 using My Freemasonry mobile app



This website I have found to be nothing more than inappropriate exposés of esoteric work - and like most exposés - inaccurate and obsolete.


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## Daniele

inappropriate exposed and obsolete? do you mean that our rituals are not adequate? 

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## Daniele

Here are the differences that unfortunately do not combine Freemasonry in a single world institution

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## Daniele

Man always has to say and repudiate what one exposes that does not conform to his thought

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## Warrior1256

coachn said:


> I've seen these types of queries go sideways very quickly...


It appears to be doing so now.


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## Daniele

Thanks anyway for the comparison is trust 

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## hfmm97

I apologize for the misunderstanding, Daniele. I took classes in the Italian language over 25 years ago but I can still read it. I  am NOT saying all the exposés are inaccurate - but I did naively think that the esoteric work should stay esoteric. I think the biggest problem here is the language barrier here. To avoid any further ill will, I respectfully withdraw from this discussion. 


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## coachn

Warrior1256 said:


> It appears to be doing so now.


Yep


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## coachn

Daniele said:


> inappropriate exposed and obsolete? do you mean that our rituals are not adequate?
> 
> Sent from my DIG-L01 using My Freemasonry mobile app


We tend to be kinder when someone is exposing any purported freemasonic  ritual... hint nint


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## hfmm97

coachn said:


> We tend to be kinder when someone is exposing any purported freemasonic  ritual... hint nint



Thanks coachn - I respect your criticism: I need diplomacy lessons 


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## coachn

hfmm97 said:


> Thanks coachn - I respect your criticism: I need diplomacy lessons


When you find them, let me know. I need to brush up.


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## Daniele

#coachn what ritual are you? what is your obedience called?

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## goomba

Daniele said:


> #coachn what ritual are you? what is your obedience called?
> 
> Sent from my DIG-L01 using My Freemasonry mobile app



Being that most of the members of this site from the USA are sleeping I'll attempt to answer.  I work night shift so I'm up at odd hours.

Unless I'm mistaken Coach's lodge works a variation of the Preston-Webb Ritual as do most lodges in the USA.  I have belonged to three different grand lodges in the USA and they all work a variation of the Preston-Webb Ritual, primarily.  Some lodges work an alternate ritual such as Emulation, Modern Scottish, AASR, etc., with permission from their grand lodge.  My current grand lodge has lodges working five different rituals (Preston-Webb, Emulation, Modern Scottish, AASR, and Irish).  Additionally our lodges work in eight different languages (English, Spanish, German, Farsi, Armenian, Turkish, Italian, and French).  Most are in English and most work our variation of the Preston-Webb Ritual.

As far as obedience Coach and most of the active users of this site belong to a grand lodge recognized by  the UGLE, Conference of Grand Masters of North America, and Conference of Grand Masters, PHA.  With that being said we welcome those who belong to other fraternities even if those lodges are not in amity with our own.  But we do our best not to violate our obligations.  Especially with this being a public forum and not a tiled/tyled (see this is a word where spelling varies) lodge.


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## Daniele

goomba said:


> Being that most of the members of this site from the USA are sleeping I'll attempt to answer.  I work night shift so I'm up at odd hours.
> 
> Unless I'm mistaken Coach's lodge works a variation of the Preston-Webb Ritual as do most lodges in the USA.  I have belonged to three different grand lodges in the USA and they all work a variation of the Preston-Webb Ritual, primarily.  Some lodges work an alternate ritual such as Emulation, Modern Scottish, AASR, etc., with permission from their grand lodge.  My current grand lodge has lodges working five different rituals (Preston-Webb, Emulation, Modern Scottish, AASR, and Irish).  Additionally our lodges work in eight different languages (English, Spanish, German, Farsi, Armenian, Turkish, Italian, and French).  Most are in English and most work our variation of the Preston-Webb Ritual.
> 
> As far as obedience Coach and most of the active users of this site belong to a grand lodge recognized by  the UGLE, Conference of Grand Masters of North America, and Conference of Grand Masters, PHA.  With that being said we welcome those who belong to other fraternities even if those lodges are not in amity with our own.  But we do our best not to violate our obligations.  Especially with this being a public forum and not a tiled/tyled (see this is a word where spelling varies) lodge.


Thank you and nice to know the different aspects of Freemasonry is to establish friendly relations with other brothers.

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## coachn

Daniele said:


> #coachn what ritual are you? what is your obedience called?
> 
> Sent from my DIG-L01 using My Freemasonry mobile app


You'll find all that in my profile in the information tab if you know how to connect the freemasonic dots: http://www.myfreemasonry.com/members/coachn.2329/


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## coachn

goomba said:


> Being that most of the members of this site from the USA are sleeping I'll attempt to answer.  I work night shift so I'm up at odd hours.
> 
> Unless I'm mistaken Coach's lodge works a variation of the Preston-Webb Ritual as do most lodges in the USA.  I have belonged to three different grand lodges in the USA and they all work a variation of the Preston-Webb Ritual, primarily.  Some lodges work an alternate ritual such as Emulation, Modern Scottish, AASR, etc., with permission from their grand lodge.  My current grand lodge has lodges working five different rituals (Preston-Webb, Emulation, Modern Scottish, AASR, and Irish).  Additionally our lodges work in eight different languages (English, Spanish, German, Farsi, Armenian, Turkish, Italian, and French).  Most are in English and most work our variation of the Preston-Webb Ritual.
> 
> As far as obedience Coach and most of the active users of this site belong to a grand lodge recognized by  the UGLE, Conference of Grand Masters of North America, and Conference of Grand Masters, PHA.  With that being said we welcome those who belong to other fraternities even if those lodges are not in amity with our own.  But we do our best not to violate our obligations.  Especially with this being a public forum and not a tiled/tyled (see this is a word where spelling varies) lodge.


Yep.  And most all of us do not support the discussion, identification and posting of exposes in public.


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## Warrior1256

goomba said:


> But we do our best not to violate our obligations. Especially with this being a public forum and not a tiled/tyled (see this is a word where spelling varies) lodge.





coachn said:


> And most all of us do not support the discussion, identification and posting of exposes in public.





coachn said:


> We tend to be kinder when someone is exposing any purported freemasonic ritual... hint nint


Absolutely!


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