# Change Nobody Believes In



## Blake Bowden (Dec 22, 2009)

As many of you know, I supported the idea of Universal Healthcare but this bill is a travesty. Thoughts?

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704398304574598130440164954.html


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## drapetomaniac (Dec 22, 2009)

I think that's an opinion piece linked above - not journalism.

I don't know the answer to this - but find the number of people who believe "death panels" are real and how much it has increased in the past many months.

And let me know if I need to re-post the links that show we have ACTUAL death panels in TX since before 2000.


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## Payne (Dec 25, 2009)

I know I am against that bill they passed. I don't believe it will bring Universal Health-care. I think what the bill will do is raise my taxes and make it harder for me and my family to get the needed health care. ObamaCare  is a joke and not a funny one.


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## JTM (Dec 26, 2009)

drapetomaniac said:


> I think that's an opinion piece linked above - not journalism.
> 
> I don't know the answer to this - but find the number of people who believe "death panels" are real and how much it has increased in the past many months.
> 
> And let me know if I need to re-post the links that show we have ACTUAL death panels in TX since before 2000.


 
who runs the death panels in texas?


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## wwinger (Dec 26, 2009)

It would be nice to have free health-care, but I don't think I can afford it!


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## ljlinson1206 (Dec 26, 2009)

drapetomaniac said:


> I think that's an opinion piece linked above - not journalism.
> 
> I don't know the answer to this - but find the number of people who believe "death panels" are real and how much it has increased in the past many months.
> 
> And let me know if I need to re-post the links that show we have ACTUAL death panels in TX since before 2000.


 
I would like to see that link myself.


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## Hippie19950 (Dec 27, 2009)

When I worked EMS, we would take patients to the hospital from their home, or a nursing home with various problems, and often they were admitted, and treated for the ailment(s). Some were very serious, and needed hospital care. They would be discharged after the care was complete, and return to the home. We would get a call, to pick them up again, and return to the hospital with them, as the problem had come back. They would be held in the E.R. for hours, and then usually returned to their home, or nursing home, with no further advanced treatment, because Medicare, or Medicaid would not allow it so soon after the first treatment. Many times, the Dr. could sneak them in for a 23 hour observation, but that was it. Now, if they could find some other reason to keep them, they could continue the needed treatment, as well as the "new one". These are both government funded care plans, and headed up by some of the same people YOUR health care will be regulated by. If the patients were taken to another hospital, and admitted, just to try to bypass the last care time, it would be denied by the agency, and the patient or family were then responsible for the care. This is the same thing people are talking about. I don't know if these qualify as Death Panels, but they do set the pace for it. Now, on the other side, there have been so many Doc's and facilities who have robbed the system, they have to be more critical of what goes on, and what is paid. But we ALL suffer. Now, back to my $5.00 Healthcare Plan...(I've made several posts around the web about this) We have around 10 million people in Texas who are employed right now. If each one paid $5.00 a week toward a State healthcare plan, the first week, we have $50,000,000.00. In 6 weeks, we are at about a quarter BILLION dollars.... Right now, the coverage in Congress will not be really available until 2014 for the most part. If we had a moratorium for 1 year on OUR money, we could start off pretty good right here in OUR State. If other States joined in, it would get better. Even if we put up $10.00 a week, it would still work with twice as much seed money, and would not be that much of a burden on each one of us. Even the small employers could afford to chip in $5.-10.00 a week for the employees. This would take care of the individual, as well as their family. Now, before you start fussing and cussing about those lazy slobs who don't work, at $5.00 a week, I DON'T CARE!!!!!!!! We can cover them a lot more cheaply than we are now, or with the New Guv'mint Plan... I spend $5.00 a day on coffee and a soda at lunch, so I'll drink a glass of ice water one day a week.. The reasons this cannot be done, is that no one wants to admit it will work first of all. Second, there will be too many trying to get their hands on OUR money. Third, no one listens. I have been saying, and posting this for almost 4 years now. I can't get a response from any elected official, and the big newspapers do not post it in the comments/editorials. Maybe I am crazy, but some of you finance wizards look at it, and see where it can go....
Hippie


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## TexMass (Dec 28, 2009)

Hippie,
10 million workers at 10$ per worker comes to 100 million dollars a week.  Matching funds from employers would make it 200 million a week.  Multiply that by 52 weeks and that's 10.4 billion dollars per year.  Wow that seems so simple.  Employers would have no problem with 10$ per employee a week as opposed to providing a health care plan at hundreds per employee.  If that same principle was applied nation wide at 250 million worrkers that would come to...260 billon per year and 1.04 Trillion by 2014.  Wow, we could really do this.  You officially have my vote!!!!!


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## JTM (Dec 28, 2009)

TexMass said:


> Hippie,
> 10 million workers at 10$ per worker comes to 100 million dollars a week.  Matching funds from employers would make it 200 million a week.  Multiply that by 52 weeks and that's 10.4 billion dollars per year.  Wow that seems so simple.  Employers would have no problem with 10$ per employee a week as opposed to providing a health care plan at hundreds per employee.  If that same principle was applied nation wide at 250 million worrkers that would come to...260 billon per year and 1.04 Trillion by 2014.  Wow, we could really do this.  You officially have my vote!!!!!


 
... ?

Almost $1.7 trillion spent on health care in '03

USATODAY.com - Almost $1.7 trillion spent on health care in '03


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## Hippie19950 (Dec 28, 2009)

"Ours" is done without any government taxation, or contribution from them... Now, if the extra money was required to meet any shortcomings, it still would not be as much as we are spending today as for the government part. Is my "plan" perfect?? Nope, but maybe it is headed in the right direction. Sure looks a lot cheaper in the long run, and then we tackle to over pricing that is done to recover the losses by the healthcare providers because some don't pay, or don't have the means, and this cuts the overall cost. Then we hit the drug manufacturers (Ow, that's gonna hurt someplace!!), and get them to be reasonable on their costs, or show significant progress in their search for better drugs or cures. If not, WE THE PEOPLE tell them to get in line, or WE WILL go out of country to buy the same thing they are selling there for less money. They can either put up, or shut up. Of course, right now they have more money than "WE" do, so they can still call the shots, but LOOK OUT!!! 
Wait a minute, someone is knocking at my door, looks like some kind of official...
Hippie


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## Blake Bowden (Dec 29, 2009)

A few weeks ago I applied for Health Insurance through Cigna. Time had passed so I called them up requesting a status update and was told that I would be receiving their decision in the mail. A week later I recived the letter and was shocked that we were denied health insurance because I did not disclose that a member of my family "took prescription medication on a monthly basis". I was puzzled since none of us are on any form of medication, then I realized they were talking about my wifes IUD. The IUD is good for 5 years so it isn't your typical monthly birth control. Good grief, imagine if we had a pre-existing condition? Sorry but health insurance sucks in this country. If you get health insurance through your employer cool beans, but if you're self employed it's VERY expensive and I won't even get into maternity insurance...it's damn near impossible to get.


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## JTM (Dec 29, 2009)

yea, but thinking govt health insurance will be any better is a pipe dream.


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## wwinger (Jan 3, 2010)

Hippie19950 said:


> ...$5.00 Healthcare Plan... We have around 10 million people in Texas who are employed right now. If each one paid $5.00 a week toward a State healthcare plan, the first week, we have $50,000,000.00...


The Texas Hospital Association, which represents only a portion of the hospitals in Texas, says its members employ 350,000 "health care professionals". 

If the fifty million per week is used only for compensating these people, thats about $150.00 per week each. Thats less than minimum wage and well below the poverty level. 

If we employed only ONE-SEVENTH of these people we could pay them $1000 per week, (not "professional" pay), but there still wouldn't be any hospitals, beds, drugs or equipment to work with.

JTM says that health care cost us 1.7 TRILLION DOLLARS in '03. I doubt if its gotten any cheaper. 

'TexMass' doubles the $5.00 plan to $10.00 per week, then matches it with like employer contributions and ends up nationally with $260 billion per year. 

I don't think we can cut the cost of health care enough to make it work.

Nice idea though!


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## Hippie19950 (Jan 3, 2010)

Like I said, it can work, but there are too many extra "professionals" standing with their hand out. These funds need to be put into an interest bearing account(s), and a moratorium put in effect for a period of time to allow this to accumalate some extra funds. With what I am reading and hearing now, the "new healthcare" program is not going to be working (if it EVER will) untill 2014 or longer. As for professional pay, I never made anywhere near a grand a week as a Peace Officer, FF, or Paramedic... I still had to attend school, and have certifications, and licenses to work for just a little above minimum wage. Get real with some of the pricing, cut out the excess, and it can work. The meds are apparently way over priced here, if we can buy the same drugs in Canada for less money, with shipping. Some say they are inferior, so if that is the case, the drug companies need to be re-evaluated for doing this to another group of human beings... Like I said, it can be done, but who wants to give up the 3 extra beach house, the apartment in downtown New York, and the 3 week vacations in other parts of the World looking down on others while considering themselves to be God, and many of them (U.S.) don't even believe in God... 
Now, as for being jealous, Nope, I'm not. I have everything I want, and most of what I need. I have looked at myself, and my life, and decided what was improtant. I do not live like a pauper, but I don't live like a king either. I don't have to worry about my next meal, or anything else like that. I planned early on, and am comfortable. I even have a 15 year old daughter at home, and am able to support her while maintaining a nice life. I do still work, even though I have a retirement available. My work is considered professional, and I am an "Expert WItness" in several areas when needed in court. But, this all came about by watching to see what I would need later on. I see no reason why others cannot do this especially if they are Medical Professionals, without robbing the people who need the help. No whare do any of us take an oath to make the most money of anyone, but rather to help others in their time of need. Cop, FF, EMS, Mason, or DOCTOR...


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## JTM (Jan 3, 2010)

sorry hippie, but that's just gonna push me closer to wanting to brutally beating government officials/congressmen.


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## HKTidwell (Jan 3, 2010)

I think we can all agree that the US Government runs the VA Hospitals and the quality of care.

Looks like a strong future for our universal health care.
http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=6037885n&tag=api


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## JTM (Jan 4, 2010)

any links on the Texas death panels?


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## Frater Cliff Porter (Jan 4, 2010)

> but if you're self employed it's VERY expensive and I won't even get into maternity insurance...it's damn near impossible to get.



Very true.  My wife owns a small business and has for over a decade.  She used to purchase her own health insurance, but it got to the point that they wanted 1,200 a month because she was labeled as a "possible child bearer"....like it is a bad condition to have.

My mother is a church secretary for a small Methodist church and puts in 30 hours a week, then 30 hours a week caring for an elderly lady.  Neither job pays health care benefits.  My mom owns outright a small two bedroom house that is paid off so she has too much in the "asset" column to qualify for government assistance.

So my mom, a tax payer, working two jobs, who owns a home can't get health care in this country.

I am not claiming that the government will help.  I am libertarian and believe that the insurance industry should be abolished and we simply negotiate the price of our care with our doctors and allow the markets to drive the price of care in any particular region.  Sounds crazy right?  Well, in America at one time a doctor would often get paid in crops, preserves, and livestock...whatever the towns folk could give.  Everyone knew the doc and he knew them....crazy right?

I am not certain how to repair the system, but when hard working American's can't get care, there is a problem.


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## ljlinson1206 (Jan 4, 2010)

I guess the death panel link has "died".


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## drapetomaniac (Jan 4, 2010)

JTM said:


> who runs the death panels in texas?


 
Individual hospitals and their doctors.  And their finance departments.

http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Texas_baby_removed_from_life_support_against_mother's_wishes

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advance_Directives_Act


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## JTM (Jan 5, 2010)

ah, okay.  that's what i thought.  in our current system, if you can't pay the electricity, your power gets shut off.  



> Under the Texas Futile Care Law, health care workers are allowed to remove expensive life support for terminally ill patients if the patient or family is unable to pay the medical bills.


that's pretty much what happened here.  as much of an asshole that makes me sound, i would've gladly put some money toward it had someone asked me to, and encouraged others to do the same.  however, if nobody is going to pay for it, it's not a matter of sympathy at that point, it has to be turned off.

the difference with government health care is that we'll presumably all have the same coverage.  there will have to be panels who decide who gets what.  and how do they decide?  

the problem is magnified when people pay for varying levels of government health care.


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## ljlinson1206 (Jan 6, 2010)

What ever happened to "quality" of life?  Are we in such a hurry to look at the negative aspect of something that we forget to review it from ALL aspects?  I know my point of view is going to make me sound cold and callous, but again, as a lawman thats been a first responder I've seen terrible things that gives me a different perspective.

First of all in the Hudson case, was the mothers expectations reasonable?  In her quote she stated that the Texas Childrens Hospital was supposed to be a "miracle" hospital.  No one wants someone close to them to die.  It is however a fact of life.  The ONLY one thing that can be counted on in this life is that we WILL die.  Another point that I find interesting is that she stated that she was "forced" to give up her rights.  In the bill itself it stated that you are given 10 days to either find another facility or take legal action.  No where does it say that you are forced to give up your rights.  I understand that 10 days is not alot of time, but if you read a little case law you will find that people have obtained injunctions over and over and over again.  I sympathise with Ms. Hudson on the loss of her child, but sounds to me like she's out for money.  How is it that she couldn't find an attorney before the termination of the life support but could afterwards?  Why would a greiving mother want to show her dead baby on TV?  Doesn't sound like something a normal parent would do.

As far as the bill itself, a person has more "rights" now than they did before.  Before, the care facility didn't have to give any prior notification that they were going to end treatment.  Now a person is given 10 days after an ethics consultation.  If the decision is not agreed upon then there are options and steps that can be taken.  Again, noone wants to see a loved one pass, but this is far from a "death panel".

In each case I've read, many I didn't read because it would just take too long, the same things were present.  Terminally ill patient, treatment only slightly prolonging life, and no other facility taking patient because nothing more could be done.  We are not talking prolonging your life for a few months while you get your affairs in order or take a trip or do the one thing in life you wish you'de have done earlier.  We're talking about laying in a bed, heavily sedated or comatose with tubes running throughout your body.  who does this benefit?  Your family that has to come in and see you this way?  I have already signed a DNR at the age of 36.  For those that don't know DNR is do not resesitate.  I believe in the quality of my life, not how long I can live.  But that's just me.  We all have to face the reality of death at some point in our life.


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## drapetomaniac (Jan 6, 2010)

ljlinson1206 said:


> Before, the care facility didn't have to give any prior notification that they were going to end treatment.  Now a person is given 10 days after an ethics consultation.  If the decision is not agreed upon then there are options and steps that can be taken.  Again, noone wants to see a loved one pass, but this is far from a "death panel"....For those that don't know DNR is do not resesitate.  I believe in the quality of my life, not how long I can live.  But that's just me.  We all have to face the reality of death at some point in our life.


 
You've signed a DNR.  Is your definition of quality of life the only correct one? Enough to be imposed on others?

That ethics consideration includes a billing consideration.  If there is enough wealth, the ethics board is never consulted because the finances are in place.

A person can't pay their bill.
They are terminally ill.
They have signed that they want to have every measure taken to keep them alive for as long as possible.
That signed statement of the person's will to live or DNR is ignored.
Their life status is determined by a panel and their finances.


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## drapetomaniac (Jan 6, 2010)

JTM said:


> ah, okay.  that's what i thought.  in our current system, if you can't pay the electricity, your power gets shut off.
> ..however, if nobody is going to pay for it, it's not a matter of sympathy at that point, it has to be turned off.


 
It's a matter of sympathy, it's just not present.

This same argument could be used to endorse abortion, since finances are the primary consideration.

Poverty has most certainly has been used as a reason to forcibly sterilize women in our country in the past.  So, using it as a reason for voluntary abortions is a much bigger improvement.  If  we're going to force people to follow our ethics panels for living, we could at least encourage voluntary abortions unless people's budgets line up.  And consistent with quality of life arguments.  

Hunger is on the rise in the US after all.


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## ljlinson1206 (Jan 6, 2010)

*You've signed a DNR. Is your definition of quality of life the only correct one? Enough to be imposed on others?*

I'm pretty sure I indicated that this is MY belief, what's in MY heart.  I am not imposing my will on anyone.  But since you brought it up, isn't the family imposing THIER will on the person that can't speak for themselves?  I understand that in the case of small children the parent have the underlying decision, but there are numerous cases of this happening with adults.  And just for your understanding, the reason I have a DNR already is so that my family doesn't have to make that decision.

*That ethics consideration includes a billing consideration. If there is enough wealth, the ethics board is never consulted because the finances are in place.*

As far as wether the panel is consulted on the basis of finance, I can neither agree nor disagree.  I am neither a doctor or on any of these panels.  I cannot say that if you are rich they (the doctors) wouldn't tell the family the same thing.  I simply do not know.  However, I can assume that if you are rich and willing to spend your money frivolously, then someone will take your money and keep you alive, and I use that word loosly!  In our country, if you have enough money you can get anything.  The origan question though was about "DEATH PANEL"!  I do not find this bill or course of action to be either one.

*This same argument could be used to endorse abortion, since finances are the primary consideration.*

I missed the part of the bill that stated that *FINANCE* was the *MAJOR*consideration.  I have read it several times, but I will go back and read it again.

Nope, didn't find it.  It is a consideration, but not the MAIN consideration.  There are multitudes of people that go to the hospitals without money and recieve treatment.  I think the main consideration is going to be TERMINAL ILLNESS.  I could be wrong, but then we are not in a position to know that are we?  Unless you happen to be on one of theses panels.  I'm not.

*Poverty has most certainly has been used as a reason to forcibly sterilize women in our country in the past.*

Amazingly the three reasons listed for forcible sterilization are  eugenic (concerned with heredity), therapeutic (part of an even-then obscure medical theory that sterilization would lead to vitality), or punitive (as a punishment for criminals). This came from the same sources that you have listed....Wikipedia.  I found nothing stating that poverty had anything to do with it in this country.

*Hunger is on the rise in the US after all. *

This is because of a whole other set of Liberal rules that are nothing but a load of propiganda!!!!


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## drapetomaniac (Jan 6, 2010)

ljlinson1206 said:


> I am not imposing my will on anyone.  But since you brought it up, isn't the family imposing THIER will on the person that can't speak for themselves?  I understand that in the case of small children the parent have the underlying decision, but there are numerous cases of this happening with adults.  And just for your understanding, the reason I have a DNR already is so that my family doesn't have to make that decision.



Would you support a doctor ignoring it?  This bill doesn't do that, because yours favors death. But it does override the directives of others.



ljlinson1206 said:


> The origan question though was about \"DEATH PANEL\"! I do not find this bill or course of action to be either one.



And there aren't any in the health care bill, yet a wide variety people have encouraged the idea.  When I posted the linked the first time, it was to show that while people complained about fictional death panels in the federal bill to demonize it, we had our own in Texas.

A panel of doctors can override your directives or the directives of your family.  Even if you can pay (as you seemed to clarify). 
A panel of people who meet to determine if someone is going to die.  That's what we have in Texas.

Would we support this if it were in the federal bill?  What would people who hate the bill call that portion?

Either way, I guess I was off base bringing it up since people seem ok with having a panel override personal decisions on health.



ljlinson1206 said:


> *Poverty has most certainly has been used as a reason to forcibly sterilize women in our country in the past.*
> 
> Amazingly the three reasons listed for forcible sterilization are  eugenic (concerned with heredity), therapeutic (part of an even-then obscure medical theory that sterilization would lead to vitality), or punitive (as a punishment for criminals). This came from the same sources that you have listed....Wikipedia.  I found nothing stating that poverty had anything to do with it in this country.



Well, it's an issue I've followed for many years and have seen in a wide variety of research settings.  Eugenics often seeks to "solve poverty" and "overpopulation," often linking the two and attacking that way.

Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buck_v._Bell
"Her adopted family had committed her to the State Colony as "feeble-minded" (a catch-all term used at the time for not only the mentally disabled but also promiscuous women, poor women, uneducated women and anyone not deemed normal), no longer feeling capable of caring for her."

Even when I was going through school, our "current events" we debated and wrote papers on included *forcing* women on welfare to use new birth control.  Which is at least temporary eugenics and with testing new forms of birth control, consistent with our use of poor women in the past which has been known to have sterilizing effects when they go wrong.  
You can be hungry or take a test pill.

Something more modern: http://thinkprogress.org//09/24/louisiana-sterilize/

Judges ordering people not to have children: http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2008/09/12/can-a-judge-order-a-woman-to-stop-having-childen/

Mention of the Virginia "apology" to 7000+ people, including a veteran sterilized earlier in life because he was a runaway: http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2002/05/02/virginia-eugenics.htm

Poverty has a history of being seen as evil in this country.

In Puerto Rico,  a third of women were forcibly sterilized at one time to fix "underemployment" and "stabilize" the island.  Law 116 was instituted on the island in 1937 and finally repealed in the 1960s.

I remember watching the Virginia apology go through its legislation several years back.  Their apology was phrases like "We apologize for exercising our legal authority and right to sterilize" - basically in a way not to show fault and open up to law suits.



ljlinson1206 said:


> *Hunger is on the rise in the US after all. *
> This is because of a whole other set of Liberal rules that are nothing but a load of propiganda!!!!


 
Of course.  Our secret cabal to ruin the world.


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## Hippie19950 (Jan 6, 2010)

Looks like another ongoing battle that NO ONE will win. Politicians are going to be blasted either way they go with their votes, the PEOPLE who speak out will be wrong, and those who sit and wait, will LOSE biggest. It's not going to be a "winnable" deal. It needs to be scrapped, and revert to what we have now. Either way, those of us who work, are the one's who will foot the bill for it. My plan has already been shot down, without any real research, and we have since reverted to a back and forth discussion of what history has shown, and who has wronged who by it. Time to get over it, and make something happen, and not keep gooing back to what CANNOT be changed. I have NOT apologized for ANYTHING, and have absolutley no intention of it. If I'm wrong, so be it. As for medical care, I no longer really care. I am a Veteran, and it has been noted NONE of my healthcare will be affected by this. Myabe I am a bit one sided, but that is who I am. I have tried to be reasonable at times, and all I get it shot down, for being who I am.


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## drapetomaniac (Jan 6, 2010)

> Illness and medical bills caused half of the 1,458,000 personal bankruptcies in 2001, according to a study published by the journal Health Affairs.
> 
> The study estimates that medical bankruptcies affect about 2 million Americans annually -- counting debtors and their dependents, including about 700,000 children.
> 
> ...



Read more: http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2005/bankruptcy_study.html#ixzz0bsD8p1Hh

That's the middle class outlook on health care.  BTW - its also one of the reasons I didn't support Biden (being from my home state of Delaware, he helped push through making bankruptcies tougher much longer before he even considered health care - the two are linked)


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## Hippie19950 (Jan 6, 2010)

Guess I'm middle class then. But, when you look at statistics, I'm definitely NOT alone. Where do each of you fit???


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## ljlinson1206 (Jan 6, 2010)

I'm pretty sure I'm middle class, probably lower portion.


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## drapetomaniac (Jan 6, 2010)

Middle class, largely due to the support system helping while I was poor.


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## ljlinson1206 (Jan 6, 2010)

*Surprisingly, most of those bankrupted by illness had health insurance. More than three-quarters were insured at the start of the bankrupting illness. However, 38 percent had lost coverage at least temporarily by the time they filed for bankruptcy*

Wouldn't this fall under the catagory of an Insurance problem rather than a health care problem?  Seems to me we should have insurance reform and not health care reform.


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## drapetomaniac (Jan 6, 2010)

ljlinson1206 said:


> Wouldn't this fall under the catagory of an Insurance problem rather than a health care problem?  Seems to me we should have insurance reform and not health care reform.


 
Our medical care is intertwined with the ability to pay.  Most of our ability to pay is through insurance.  If you can't pay, you don't get care.  Or you go bankrupt.  If you provide care to everyone - you're a commie.

Aren't a good portion of the complaints about the reform financial?


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## Hippie19950 (Jan 7, 2010)

I am in middle class, because that is where I am happy. I have everything paid for, have money left over each payday after paying bills, and have a 15 year old daughter still at home. My wants are few, and my needs are less. I learned a long time ago, the more you have, the more who want to take it, or don't like you because you have it. I prefer not to be a burden on those people. I feel that if they don't have to spend time envying me, maybe they can do something good to change the World. My daughter is planning her college. Since I am a Viet Nam Vet, there are some programs that will provide scholarships for her. I have also learned that any funds I did not use from my G.I. Bill of Rights can be transferred to her for her college education. We have a nice home, with a nice shop for me to work on my customs in. We have two vehicles and two motorcycles. We have a cat, not a dog, so that probably blows the whole ideal life out of the water, but we are probably happier than many others are. Bro. LJ is in good shape too. We have another Brother on here who has a daughter in the same grade and school as we do, and he's doing pretty good. I have retirement to draw from, but have not started that yet. My wife has not worked since my daughter was born. It was a little tough at times, but we both felt better knowing that if our daughter needed to be home due to illness, she would be available. This knocked some of the stats around too, because there were no lost days of work due to a child's illness. I can sit here, and bicker back and forth for many more years, but I am growing tired of it, and it really is cutting into my much needed party time before going to a nursing home (again, paid for by the V.A. Man don't you just LOVE this Government!), and I really do need to get a few other things done. I'm about to kick 60 right between the eyes real hard, so you should know I'm not much for contributing to society much longer. I have done my share, and then some over the years. I am enjoying some of this time looking into my mother's side of the family. Seems we hail from Jamestown in the 1700's, and then all the way back to the Normans. Now, if I could just get the German side of my family to come around, I might have a really unique heritage to brag about. Til then, I'll find you someplace else.............................


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## Blake Bowden (Jan 7, 2010)

Amen.


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