# Make Room For A New GL in Texas



## bupton52 (May 24, 2014)

We have the pleasure of yet another GL being formed in the Great State of Texas. Your thoughts?


----------



## japool (May 24, 2014)

How can they get away with that?


Sent From My Freemasonry Pro App


----------



## bupton52 (May 24, 2014)

Nobody stops them. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using My Freemasonry HD mobile app


----------



## bupton52 (May 24, 2014)

They just..........do it. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using My Freemasonry HD mobile app


----------



## vangoedenaam (May 24, 2014)

You can roll your own if you want. Just dont expect to be regular


Sent From My Freemasonry Pro App


----------



## bupton52 (May 24, 2014)

Got some more pics to share.


----------



## bupton52 (May 24, 2014)




----------



## bupton52 (May 24, 2014)

The guy in the middle is Rick Wells, the one that lied to the UGLE to become a member of Internet Lodge #9659 and subsequently gain admittance into a lodge in Massachusetts, if I'm not mistaken. The guy on the right also lied about being a member of Internet Lodge #9659 and claimed to have been named Provincial Grand Master of the East Lancashire District of the UGLE.


----------



## SkiKing76 (May 24, 2014)

what's a praise dancer?


----------



## jjjjjggggg (May 24, 2014)

I am curious as to why it seems most clandestine lodges in America exist in Texas, and predominantly in the black community? I ask this purely from ignorance and true interest. 

Do other countries/territories deal with this same issue? I know France seems to be the home to co-masonry and is considered irregular by American lodges.


Sent From My Freemasonry Pro App


----------



## MRichard (May 24, 2014)

bupton52 said:


> The guy in the middle is Rick Wells, the one that lied to the UGLE to become a member of Internet Lodge #9659 and subsequently gain admittance into a lodge in Massachusetts, if I'm not mistaken. The guy on the right also lied about being a member of Internet Lodge #9659 and claimed to have been named Provincial Grand Master of the East Lancashire District of the UGLE. View attachment 4227



Interesting, these guys are the modern day John Jones of bogus masonry. The other guy is Weston Jarvis. Did they create this new grand lodge?


----------



## MarkR (May 25, 2014)

jamie.guinn said:


> I am curious as to why it seems most clandestine lodges in America exist in Texas, and predominantly in the black community? I ask this purely from ignorance and true interest.
> 
> Do other countries/territories deal with this same issue? I know France seems to be the home to co-masonry and is considered irregular by American lodges.
> 
> ...


Texas isn't as bad as Illinois and New York.  Check out http://www.thephylaxis.org/bogus/bogusgrandlodges.php to see the bogus grand lodges by state.


----------



## chrmc (May 25, 2014)

Amazing. What I don't get is what do they get out of it? Is there money in it so they are something as simple as a con artist, or is it the prestige of the degrees or?


----------



## MRichard (May 25, 2014)

chrmc said:


> Amazing. What I don't get is what do they get out of it? Is there money in it so they are something as simple as a con artist, or is it the prestige of the degrees or?



There is definitely money involved. I was reading somewhere that Jarvis gets paid $5.00 from each member for his personal salary. They also charge you money to vote and sell other things. It adds up.

Some of these guys if not most are con artists. Some could probably never join a recognized regular lodge due to their criminal history. Then others see that some titles are easier to obtain if they play the game.


----------



## BryanMaloney (May 28, 2014)

They make sure everything LOOKS so very grand, don't they?


----------



## jjjjjggggg (May 28, 2014)

All the pageantry, costumes, and jewelry in the world will never make a man better. It's unfortunate that folks fall for this, lord knows I have a time or two.


Sent From My Freemasonry Pro App


----------



## BryanMaloney (May 29, 2014)

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BeautyEqualsGoodness


----------



## Glen Cook (May 31, 2014)

Well, recognized Masons have some of the same _ordens hunger_ which motivate these men.  We also clamour after rank, position and the honors of men.  Our GL regalia in many cases is identical to that portrayed here.  One wonders if "that for which we have so long wrought" is a title.  Lodges are divided or even fail because of competing egos, like the irregular grand lodges.  

And, they have some really cool names.


----------



## MoonlightMadness357 (May 31, 2014)

The major issues I have is that they are one profiting off the name of our charitable organization and secondly the misrepresented actions and acts of the clandestine create the ill-deserved rumors and urban myths that are associated with our time honored organization. I do believe that unity between all of "us regular masons" both PHA and GWA (George Washington Affiliated, a term coined by another brother on here that I particularly like) as well as all other lodges in good standing with the UGLE is required to bring an end to this attack on our name. Yes I am a relatively new MM but and to propose a sort of central office of Masonic records may seem ludicrous to some but with technology today we have to be able to better validate one's traveling documents and hold each other accountable for the state of the craft.


----------



## BryanMaloney (May 31, 2014)

Here's the problem, Bro. Lovett: Nobody in the USA "owns" the term "Freemasonry", "Masonic", or associated indicia. They aren't trademarked, and the barn door's been open far too long to seek trademark protection. There is no legal definition of "legitimate" Freemason. As private associations, the only laws that could apply would be fraud, and those are tricky when it comes to establishing historical legitimacy. So long as the claims are vague enough, there's a lot of skirting that can be done. Solution? Education is all we have.


----------



## Glen Cook (May 31, 2014)

Of course, no one condones selling of the degrees, i.e.,  making a profit from them.  Yet, in AASR-SJ, we charge for the 33.  In UGLE we charge for promotion to past rank.  

One wonders how much responsibility the GLs of the CGMNA bear responsibility for the particular problem of bogus GLs in the African American community, as we in the State GLs labeled all of them clandestine, an error still extant. If all are clandestine (to the majority view), then why does it matter which clandestine group I join?  

In CGMNA GLs, there is a list of lodges available to make decisions about who to admit. Remember, not all GLs issue cards.  

Additionally, the root problem pointed out by some is that the petitioner doesn't know what's legit and what is clandestine. A central repository won't do any good.  

UGLE isn't the grand arbiter of regularity. Indeed, they recognize a different GL in Italy than CGMNA GLs.  Many CGMNA GLs have not suspended recognition with GLNF, as the Home GLs have done. 

Oh, I am actually sojourning in Maryland this weekend.


----------



## crono782 (May 31, 2014)

So there's no way to smack the bogus ones down. Maybe a good plan B is to start campaigns by legit GLs trumpeting their legitimacy/superiority/etc. if you can't put the others down, outshine them maybe. 


Sent From My Freemasonry Pro App


----------



## MoonlightMadness357 (May 31, 2014)

BryanMaloney said:


> Here's the problem, Bro. Lovett: Nobody in the USA "owns" the term "Freemasonry", "Masonic", or associated indicia. They aren't trademarked, and the barn door's been open far too long to seek trademark protection. There is no legal definition of "legitimate" Freemason. As private associations, the only laws that could apply would be fraud, and those are tricky when it comes to establishing historical legitimacy. So long as the claims are vague enough, there's a lot of skirting that can be done. Solution? Education is all we have.


 
I agree with your statement and that's what is so frustrating about the situation. At some point in history there was no need to do this, everyone who was a mason could identify one another thru our means and it would be ok real was real and fake was fake now they have so much that they almost blur the lines of truth. Incorporated Fraternities and Sororities don't have these issues pretending only gets you so far you start your own chapter of Tau Kappa Epsilon or Kappa Alpha Psi you're getting sued. I guess it’s sad to me that the oldest of all fraternities can't do the same to protect its self


----------



## MoonlightMadness357 (May 31, 2014)

Glen Cook said:


> Oh, I am actually sojourning in Maryland this weekend.


 Well brother welcome to Maryland in advance.


----------



## Warrior1256 (Nov 4, 2014)

I can see why some people would be taken in because the photos look impressive. Looks can definately be deceiving.


----------



## jjjjjggggg (Nov 4, 2014)

If I remember right, there is a term in the New Testament about white-washed walls... all sharp and snazzy on the outside, rotten and corrupt on the inside. I'll feel bad for the guys that for sucked in. Not only are they not legit when they think they are, they got extra steps to go trough should they decide to go the right route.


----------



## Kyle Samuel (Nov 4, 2014)

When you say extra steps, what are you talking about? Just wondering. Also i have to say if they are not legit what are they teaching?


----------



## crono782 (Nov 4, 2014)

Extra steps as in the process of being "healed".


----------



## psargent (Apr 24, 2015)

Nor would anyone in a lodge that's not legally constituted (regular) be able to join appendant bodies such as the SR, YR, or Shrine. Meaning if they do so wish they have to start over and learn what's proper.


----------



## Glen Cook (Apr 24, 2015)

psargent said:


> Nor would anyone in a lodge that's not legally constituted (regular) be able to join appendant bodies such as the SR, YR, or Shrine. Meaning if they do so wish they have to start over and learn what's proper.


There are irregular appendant bodies as well


----------



## Bro Mathews (May 9, 2015)

Have any one heard of this lodge i cant find who there under New Hope lodge# 253 have any one heard of this lodge in Somerville, TX 77879


----------



## MRichard (May 10, 2015)

Bro Mathews said:


> Have any one heard of this lodge i cant find who there under New Hope lodge# 253 have any one heard of this lodge in Somerville, TX 77879



Only thing I could find was a facebook post where some guy said he was a member. Clandestine. There are New Hope lodges in both grand lodges in Texas but not in that city and with a different #.


----------



## Bro Mathews (May 15, 2015)

thanks


----------



## MRichard (May 15, 2015)

Just did another search and this popped up. That was from last year though. Didn't see it last time. https://www.facebook.com/events/1503475706547584/permalink/1503502739878214/


----------



## Bro Mathews (May 15, 2015)

i told a few of the guys that they was clandestine and they kinda got mad at me i was not doing it to be mean just wanted to help them buy letting them in on the truth.... did not go so well they start talking bad about prince hall


----------



## MRichard (May 15, 2015)

They need to know. Some in them might be in denial, some surely know, and the others are in the dark. But it takes about 5 minutes or less to find out the truth.


----------



## MBC (May 29, 2015)

Bro Mathews said:


> i told a few of the guys that they was clandestine and they kinda got mad at me i was not doing it to be mean just wanted to help them buy letting them in on the truth.... did not go so well they start talking bad about prince hall


Oh that's too bad Bro Matt. Prince Hall Masonry may have some variations with other jurisdictions but they are not bad.
Maybe I should have a contact with them and let them talking bad about the United Grand Lodge of England lol


----------



## Roy Vance (Jun 18, 2015)

Maybe I should start my own GL. LOL.


----------



## Roy Vance (Jun 18, 2015)

Kyle Samuel said:


> When you say extra steps, what are you talking about? Just wondering. Also i have to say if they are not legit what are they teaching?


 The extra steps mentioned is called "healing".


----------



## Glen Cook (Jun 18, 2015)

In 2008, I had a clandestine lodge come to me with a request to have the lodge come into our jurisdiction. I said sure, let me get you petitions...


----------



## hiram357 (Nov 24, 2015)

My view of it, is who cares? Legit obediences probably lose a few prospective members, but if the clandestine grand lodges bring people fulfillment and encourage their members to live better lives, then whatever! Now if they are nothing but pyramid scheme scams (which I imagine some are) then of course that's bad. But if these men are living the tenets of the Craft, it's a net gain to humanity.


----------



## Warrior1256 (Dec 6, 2015)

Glen Cook said:


> Well, recognized Masons have some of the same _ordens hunger_ which motivate these men.


True. I've only been a MM for 16 months and I've already met a few "Title Hunters"....men who join the York Rite or Scottish Rite with no intention to participate, just want another title after their name. After I want inducted into the Order of the Knights Templar I was asked by one that went through with me "Are you really going to be active?'. My reply was why join something if you don't intend to go to meetings and participate?


----------



## Glen Cook (Dec 6, 2015)

Warrior1256 said:


> .... After I want inducted into the Order of the Knights Templar I was asked by one that went through with me "Are you really going to be active?'. My reply was why join something if you don't intend to go to meetings and participate?



Huh. Shall we have a pool for when he goes NPD?


----------



## Warrior1256 (Dec 6, 2015)

Glen Cook said:


> Huh. Shall we have a pool for when he goes NPD?


Actually I think he will keep his dues paid up because I think that he was just buying another title to put by his name. The kicker is this guy is not new to Masonry. He is an older guy that has been in for decades. He stated that he has been in the AASR for a long time and still has his black hat. I'll bet one of the main reasons is he never shows up to meetings or functions and doesn't help out with same..


----------

