# Reflection Chamber



## anthonywilson (May 4, 2013)

Brothers,

Today during our certification exam a letter, that was written by our Grand Master, was read and it appears that Lodges are turning their anteroom into a "Reflection Chamber" which is a room painted black, with mirrors, and candles; this is based off of European Lodges (or rites). If you visit, or know of, lodges that use this room (or any elements of it) please contact your D.D.G.M so he can contact Waco for an investigation.


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## crono782 (May 4, 2013)

Let the witch hunt begin... -_^


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## JJones (May 5, 2013)

crono782 said:


> Let the witch hunt begin... -_^
> 
> 
> Freemason Connect Mobile



When I heard him speak about the COR he simply stated that they weren't legal and lodges would need to submit the proper resolutions if they wanted to see them acceptable to use.

That's what he -said-, mind you.  Because the impression I got was that he didn't like them and it does sound like he's out to get anyone that's using them.


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## Bro. Stewart P.M. (May 5, 2013)

anthonywilson said:


> Brothers,
> 
> Today during our certification exam a letter, that was written by our Grand Master, was read and it appears that Lodges are turning their anteroom into a "Reflection Chamber" which is a room painted black, with mirrors, and candles; this is based off of European Lodges (or rites). If you visit, or know of, lodges that use this room (or any elements of it) please contact your D.D.G.M so he can contact Waco for an investigation.



Sounds to me like you were given some miss-information or miss-interpreted the letter. News of Lodges actually doing such a thing would have already spread like wildfire across the internet and sites like this one. Personally, I have heard nothing of the sort and I DO have several valid and dependable sources locally and in Waco. The letter from the GM is quite simply a warning as to not deviate from the ritualistic guidelines and standards set forth by the governing body of the Grand Lodge of Texas.


In addition, there is already a open for this topic. I will list it below:

http://www.masonsoftexas.com/showthread.php?17990-GM-Conference-and-Chambers-of-Reflection&highlight=chamber+reflection


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## JFS61 (May 5, 2013)

crono782 said:


> Let the witch hunt begin... -_^



Great - Masons narcing on each other.


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## Bro_Vick (May 5, 2013)

JJones said:


> When I heard him speak about the COR he simply stated that they weren't legal and lodges would need to submit the proper resolutions if they wanted to see them acceptable to use.
> 
> That's what he -said-, mind you.  Because the impression I got was that he didn't like them and it does sound like he's out to get anyone that's using them.



I give Texas little to no chance of ever adapting it, first it isn't part of the York Rite ritual our blue lodges come from.  Second Texas is far from progressive on such matters, and don't want to cause a revolt in the rural lodges or the lodges that have a tradition of producing Certificate A holders.

Maybe we should try to use it properly in our apendent bodies and their respected degrees.  I have not witnessed it being properly implemented there, where it is completely legal to use.

S&F,
-Bro Vick


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## chrmc (May 5, 2013)

Out of curiosity how many lodges has received this letter? Mine has gotten a similar one, and we almost though it was something we did wrong. Is this a standard one that has been sent out to all lodges or?


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## Bro. Stewart P.M. (May 5, 2013)

chrmc said:


> Out of curiosity how many lodges has received this letter? Mine has gotten a similar one, and we almost though it was something we did wrong. Is this a standard one that has been sent out to all lodges or?



What is being referred to in this thread is a single letter presented to a group of Brethren during the Forum & Certificate Exams conducted by the GLoTX Committee on Work members, and local District Instructors. It is obvious that this will be covered at all of the scheduled Forum & Exams around the State, because it pertains to ritual and performance there of. This sounds very similar to the language that is currently also being presented at the various Grand Master's conferences around the State.

There has also been a similar message that the various Lodge Secretary's have presented, per the Grand Master & Grand Secretary. This was part (I believe) of one month's "Monthly Secretary's Maintenance" that is e-mailed to subscribers.


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## mthaneey (May 5, 2013)

Hurnt till the end
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## Frater Cliff Porter (May 5, 2013)

Yes, I would hate to see men reflecting.  We need to make certain no thinking or reflecting goes on...the GL is in charge of thinking and reflecting....

and Vick since one of your GL elected officers is "pro" Chamber I am not certain "never" is accurate.


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## anthonywilson (May 6, 2013)

Bro. Stewart said:


> Sounds to me like you were given some miss-information or miss-interpreted the letter. News of Lodges actually doing such a thing would have already spread like wildfire across the internet and sites like this one. Personally, I have heard nothing of the sort and I DO have several valid and dependable sources locally and in Waco. The letter from the GM is quite simply a warning as to not deviate from the ritualistic guidelines and standards set forth by the governing body of the Grand Lodge of Texas.
> 
> 
> In addition, there is already a open for this topic. I will list it below:
> ...



I may misinterpreted it and I'll get a second opinion tonight at Lodge but I do remember hearing that two Lodges under the GLoT have been using these rooms and Most Worshipful Rogers isn't happy with additions to the Work or breaking of the by-laws; and Right Worshipful Brown didn't sound happy either because he stressed the importance of this being stopped now. I tried the link but something was up. Also if you could, please contact your sources and let me know what they say.


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## relapse98 (May 7, 2013)

Bro_Vick said:


> I give Texas little to no chance of ever adapting it,
> first it isn't part of the York Rite ritual our blue lodges come from.



Not sure how to say this nicely, but I frankly don't care about that.

Does the CoR add to or subtract from what the candidate experiences in the degrees? I would argue that
we have seen that it certainly doesn't subtract and appears to add to it, building up some anticipation and
causing the candidate to do some soul searching and thinking.



> Second Texas is far from progressive on such matters,



Right now. Just takes enough older past masters to pass on and enough new
past masters who believe it adds meaning to the degrees.



> and don't want to cause a revolt in the rural lodges or the lodges that have a tradition of producing Certificate A holders.



That's possibly true, however I don't want CoR to be a requirement but merely something a lodge is allowed to do. Rural
lodge doesn't want to do it? That's fine with me, I feel they are only hurting themselves and their candidates.


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## Bro_Vick (May 7, 2013)

relapse98 said:


> Not sure how to say this nicely, but I frankly don't care about that.



Yeah I know, we only invoke the name of tradition when it meets our personal views, otherwise, screw it.

You can isolate a candidate before in the anti-room to reflect, play him the tape that Grand Lodge did so many years ago and have him reflect on the journey he is about to begin.  Just because it doesn't have a desk, with a skull, hour glass, etc, doesn't mean the candidate can't be mentally prepared.  I sat in the anti-room for 30 minutes meditating and reflecting, I guess I missed out because it wasn't dressed up.

Do lodges fed the candidate then slap them on the back change them and get it over with?  Yes, but you don't need to have a formal chamber of reflection to establish the right mindframe. Those lodges still would never adopt it, even if it were allowed.



relapse98 said:


> Right now. Just takes enough older past masters to pass on and enough new
> past masters who believe it adds meaning to the degrees.



Unless some of the new past masters agree with the old, don't assume that because someone isn't 65, they suddenly agree with your POV.



relapse98 said:


> That's possibly true, however I don't want CoR to be a requirement but merely something a lodge is allowed to do. Rural
> lodge doesn't want to do it? That's fine with me, I feel they are only hurting themselves and their candidates.



Realize that I am playing devil's advocate.  The Chamber of Reflection is an addition, but you can put the candidate in the right mind set without the props.


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## relapse98 (May 7, 2013)

Bro_Vick said:


> Yeah I know, we only invoke the name of tradition when it meets our personal views, otherwise, screw it.



Its not like the ritual has not changed over the years.



> Unless some of the new past masters agree with the old, don't assume that because someone isn't 65, they suddenly agree with your POV.



I know. It just takes some changing of the guard for new ideas to be allowed.


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## anthonywilson (May 7, 2013)

Bro_Vick said:


> Yeah I know, we only invoke the name of tradition when it meets our personal views, otherwise, screw it.
> 
> You can isolate a candidate before in the anti-room to reflect, play him the tape that Grand Lodge did so many years ago and have him reflect on the journey he is about to begin.  Just because it doesn't have a desk, with a skull, hour glass, etc, doesn't mean the candidate can't be mentally prepared.  I sat in the anti-room for 30 minutes meditating and reflecting, I guess I missed out because it wasn't dressed up.
> 
> ...



I agree with you, I'd also add that the candidate should already be reflecting when the interviewers come to visit him, everyone does it differently. It isn't really an issue of having a CoR, the issue is adding without permission. I was talking with a former DDGM last night and he went on about how you just can't add something for the sake of adding it.


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## crono782 (May 7, 2013)

I'm starting to tilt my perspective on this issue...
I am not for tradition ONLY for tradition's sake. Being progressive isn't necessarily bad. Plenty of other issues have had to be dragged into the 21st century kicking and screaming and in the end those doing the dragging were thanked for it (thank you Tyler Durden).
My views still stand in regards to the overarching premise of this debate. Does the GL have control over things done posterior and anterior to the ritual? What level of involvement should it have? Will the GL start dictating how a bible presentation should/shouldn't be done? Can the committee on work dictate the tone of voice you do the lecture in or the expression on your face during opening and closing? Where does it stop (and start)?

After further thinking on the subject, I'm not sure that a CoR will or will not enchance or detract from the ritual. As Vick stated, I think the premise of giving the candidate time to reflect regardless of decoration would be sufficient, but how long until that is regulated? It would seem to me that the statement that a LOT of masons state "that is unmasonic" where they actually mean "that was not MY masonic experience" holds true. As well many masons hold dear THEIR masonic experience which is great. Except that those would deny a different experience to another brother based on theirs.

I'm no longer saying the CoR should be allowed. Would I like to see it? Sure. Do I think it enhances the ritual? I'm undecided. Rather, I'm saying that the stodgy attituted of villifying those who would ask for change should at least be dialed down. Both sides should present to each other their wants and reasoning and come to an accord. Tradition should not be blindly thrown to the wind, but neither should a progressive attituted be shunned, in my opinion.


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## JJones (May 7, 2013)

I don't think it's a secret that GL wants the ritual for each lodge to be exactly the same.  Get with your district instructor sometime, they have the ritual down to when you are supposed to step, when you're supposed to drop your arm, when to stand up, etc.

I think the best way to find out if the CoR is beneficial would simply be to allow it to be used at the lodges option.  If it runs candidates off or if it's more trouble than it's worth then lodges will likely drop it.  If the opposite is true however, it will become more popular and more lodges will adopt it.

I like the idea of a CoR but I am willing to accept that it may not be the route to take.  I don't see how GL can say for sure one way or another without allowing some experimentation though.


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## relapse98 (May 7, 2013)

JJones said:


> I don't think it's a secret that GL wants the ritual for each lodge to be exactly the same.  Get with your district instructor sometime, they have the ritual down to when you are supposed to step, when you're supposed to drop your arm, when to stand up, etc.



So where do things like the bible presentation (or lack thereof) fall? Is that an undocumented (please point out if it is documented), optional item?

And if we allow the bible presentation and its various versions, and I have no problem with it, then why does the CoR cause such apparent heartache?



> I like the idea of a CoR but I am willing to accept that it may not be the route to take.  I don't see how GL can say for sure one way or another without allowing some experimentation though.



Yep. We are taught to think etc., can we not apply that to our own (our own being Freemasonry, not a specific lodge) rituals?


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## anthonywilson (May 7, 2013)

The point of this post to let everyone know that something is going and things are being added/changed without permission from the higher ups, the idea of reflection/contemplation isn't the issue. This was just something to share so if anyone here visits a lodge that does this in conjunction with the three degrees, the DDGM has to be contacted (I know I keep repeating this). As far the Committee on Work, we got lectured on how to stand (back straight arms and hands at our sides), how to use the gavel (set it down after each wrap), lighting (must remain on during the meetings and degrees, nothing can be turned off), the Bible (no covers on it or the pages) and so on. Anything can be regulated, provided if it meets the approval. If anyone has questions of the letter, call Grand Lodge;


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## JJones (May 7, 2013)

> So where do things like the bible presentation (or lack thereof) fall? Is that an undocumented (please point out if it is documented), optional item?



The Bible presentation is on page 89 of my monitor.  A quick glance doesn't reveal any alternative presentations in my book.



> And if we allow the bible presentation and its various versions, and I have no problem with it, then why does the CoR cause such apparent heartache?



My opinion?  Because it's -scary- and might run someone off.



> lighting (must remain on during the meetings and degrees, nothing can be turned off)



This I did not know.  So much for my aspirations of turning down the light level and using candles. :/


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## relapse98 (May 7, 2013)

JJones said:


> The Bible presentation is on page 89 of my monitor.  A quick glance doesn't reveal any alternative presentations in my book.



Ugh. teach me not to look at my monitor more often!


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## Benjamin Baxter (May 7, 2013)

I think that the point of this thread by brother anthony was not how the grand lodge is telling what to do, but that if you want any changes within masonry submit a resolution. I went to grand lodge last year and there was a resolution like to change the grand organist to grand musician. If this can make it to the floor and pass, then all of the things that have been talked about stand a chance. There were several things that we will too have to change at our lodge according to the committee of work. i.e. lights in degrees,when the columns are changed, etc:thumbup:

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## Roy Vance (May 8, 2013)

anthonywilson said:


> lighting (must remain on during the meetings and degrees, nothing can be turned off)



I had not heard of this one. We almost always use the lights in our degrees when a brother is brought to light. I have had our district instructor on several of my degree teams and he has never said anything to me about not turning off any of the lights during degrees. We also had a member of the Committee on Work present for one of our MM degrees and he also never said anything about turning off any of the lights. That may be just the district in which you reside, I don't know. I am at a loss on that one.


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## widows son (May 8, 2013)

It probably is a district thing. We do our third in darkness.


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## Benjamin Baxter (May 8, 2013)

I would hope that the committee men would be consistant across the board. Im sure they are as consistent as they can be. I wouldnt think that the districts within Texas would be that different if they listen to the c.o.w. I am sure that there are brethren that will think they know better. I am also sure there are brethren that take it more seriously and listen to every detail. 

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## Observer (May 9, 2013)

It would be nice if some of the lodges would clean out their anterooms. The quality of reflection in a cluttered, dusty "closet" can't be that good.


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## anthonywilson (May 14, 2013)

Sorry for the lack of replies, the notification e-mails have been going to my spam box for some reason. To answer the questions, yes, you can't play with the lights during the degree; we have a brother who liked to turn all of the lights off (with the exception of a couple) to create a more dramatic effect, after the forum it's not happening anymore. There was also something that was brought up in regards to the Bible, when it's open to the specific verses, the pages cannot be turned under no circumstances (even during the degrees). As Bro. BennyLee said, there are proper channels to get stuff changed/added, such as the chamber of reflection, do it properly. If anyone has the ability to attend a forum, please do so that way everyone can get the proper context on what I'm saying.


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## relapse98 (May 14, 2013)

anthonywilson said:


> To answer the questions, yes, you can't play with the lights during the degree; we have a brother who liked to turn all of the lights off (with the exception of a couple) to create a more dramatic effect, after the forum it's not happening anymore.



Can you explain this further, as you understand it.

You have to have every light in the room on during a degree? Or once the degree is started you leave the switches alone? There is a big difference between the 2 and I just want to make sure I understand what you think you heard (this sounds like a horrible game of telephone).

Every light in the room on for the entire degree.. blind and headache from fluorescent. Can't turn them on/off during a degree, just fine.


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## JJones (May 14, 2013)

relapse98 said:


> Can you explain this further, as you understand it.
> 
> You have to have every light in the room on during a degree? Or once the degree is started you leave the switches alone? There is a big difference between the 2 and I just want to make sure I understand what you think you heard (this sounds like a horrible game of telephone).
> 
> Every light in the room on for the entire degree.. blind and headache from fluorescent. Can't turn them on/off during a degree, just fine.



I'm curious then how GL feels about dimmers?  Technically the lights stay on but they're dim.

There's a certain point where the GL nit-picking about every aspect our our lodges feels a bit excessive.  It just struck me.  :confused1:


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## dfreybur (May 14, 2013)

anthonywilson said:


> To answer the questions, yes, you can't play with the lights during the degree; we have a brother who liked to turn all of the lights off (with the exception of a couple) to create a more dramatic effect, after the forum it's not happening anymore.



Is this a detail that changes regularly in Texas?  It changed in my jurisdictions faster than the details of the floor work and I don't remember a year that didn't have a floor work change.  It seems like every ritual school I attended put on by certified instructors the instruction on how to work the lights changed.  Some times it would be don't change any lights during a degree.  Other times just leave on the G and altar light the rest and not taught.  Other times this is the point where you turn the lights on if you do degrees dimly lit.

I've noticed that a lot of brothers near the switches have no idea about the dramatic timing involved in changing lighting levels.  Don't change the lights the second the brother is shown the great lights.  All that does is dazzle him so he doesn't see anything at all.  Every so often I've seen a brother count one one thousand, two one thousand, three one thousand and then gradually turn the dial.  That way the candidate starts out seeing nothing but the three great lights and the three lesser lights and then gradually the rest of the lodge comes into view so he sees the brethren gradually as a part of a dramatic unveiling.  It's great the rate times it happens.  The look on the faces of the first degree candidates shows how much impact it has when it happens like that.

But given how common it is to do it wrong I'm not surprised if many jurisdictions has settled on not touching the lights during a degree.  Even with a slide show during a lecture it's easy to get the lighting wrong.


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## anthonywilson (May 14, 2013)

relapse98 said:


> Can you explain this further, as you understand it.
> 
> You have to have every light in the room on during a degree? Or once the degree is started you leave the switches alone? There is a big difference between the 2 and I just want to make sure I understand what you think you heard (this sounds like a horrible game of telephone).
> 
> Every light in the room on for the entire degree.. blind and headache from fluorescent. Can't turn them on/off during a degree, just fine.



Leave the switches alone. We have a P.M who liked to leave the "G," the two lights over the East, Lesser lights, and the light over the alter on; to give more of an effect after the obligation (hint hint hint).However, we were told to leave the switches alone during open lodge, even though people like to "dim" or turn them off during that specific part.  However, I don't want to mislead anyone that reads this thread, so if anyone would like to contact Bro. Brown I'll get his information.


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## Mac (May 14, 2013)

Our candidates are absolutely blinded in their ceremonies. I've asked since I came in if we could alter the lighting during our degrees and was given the answer seen above. Leave the switches alone. 

So we'll keep blinding them and on and on we go. 


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## dfreybur (May 15, 2013)

Last night I was at an OV where the Chamber of Reflection was discussed.  It seems there was at least one lodge that took the candidate from the dark room directly into a tiled space.   No wonder it was banned.  There is no way a non-obligated man should be allowed into an opened lodge (insert comment about at refreshment here) in any way except the way all candidates have gone before them.  That's also not how a Chamber of Reflection is supposed to work.  Maybe had they done it correctly there might not be any controversy about it now.  The entire Chamber of Reflection event is supposed to take place and be complete before the lodge opens.  As such it's not a part of the ritual and thus just some social event that happens to be deeply meaningful.  Screwing it up in this way made it a part of the ritual and thus under direct control of the Committee on Ritual.  The result was very predictable.  The practice got banned and the memory of it is probably going to keep it banned.

I know of one lodge that practices Chamber of Reflection - Vallee de France in Pasadena, CA.  They are a tenant in the building owned by my mother lodge.  They work in French and they were chartered out of New Orleans before the California GL was formed.  Their charter allows them there own special first degree and it does include a Chamber of Reflection.  The candidate is put in the Chamber before lodge opens.  The candidate is moved from the Chamber to the tiler's room before the lodge opens.  The lodge opens, the candidate's written responses read, the degree starts and the candidate is admitted in the usual manner.

I rather like the idea of a Chamber as an optional event that happens and completes before the lodge opens.  But not smashed into the middle of a degree with a non-obligated man going into an opened lodge.  That was never what Chamber of Reflection was supposed to be about.


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## Frater Cliff Porter (May 17, 2013)

Brother Jim Tresner senior said you could tell the success/health of an organization by the amount of rules.  Organizations that are dying sit around and nitpick rules...successful and healthy organizations are too busy doing real work to do so.


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## tomasball (May 17, 2013)

I've said this before, but I think it bears repeating.  There are several important parts of our ceremonies that have become "optional" which, in my estimation, deserve more attention than ceremonies that have never been part of our work.  I would be willing to bet that most of the brethren complaining that the Committee on Work won't let them put a skull in their preparation room don't give their candidates the lectures on the fixed and movable jewels, the ornaments of the lodge, the tenets of masonry, the importance of Geometry, the explanations of the orders of architecture, or the Master's Carpet.  If you feel that you need to give your candidates "something extra" to enhance their initiatic experience, may I humbly suggest that you avail yourself of the material approved by the GLoT before you start looking for  material from other jurisdictions?

Tom Ball
PM 1173 and 1010
33*, KYCH, OPC


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## dfreybur (May 17, 2013)

tomasball said:


> I've said this before, but I think it bears repeating.  There are several important parts of our ceremonies that have become "optional" which, in my estimation, deserve more attention than ceremonies that have never been part of our work.  I would be willing to bet that most of the brethren complaining that the Committee on Work won't let them put a skull in their preparation room don't give their candidates the lectures on the fixed and movable jewels, the ornaments of the lodge, the tenets of masonry, the importance of Geometry, the explanations of the orders of architecture, or the Master's Carpet.  If you feel that you need to give your candidates "something extra" to enhance their initiatic experience, may I humbly suggest that you avail yourself of the material approved by the GLoT before you start looking for  material from other jurisdictions?



Last night after lodge closed I had a discussion with the RW district ritual instructor about differences between California and Texas ritual.  I quoted a couple of small bits that are present in California ritual that are absent in Texas ritual.  He asked about other differences.

I pointed out that a huge part of the staircase lecture is done by the SD in all of the other jurisdictions where I've seen 2nd degrees.  Look at the pillars, give that part, walk forward.  Look at the number three, give that part, walk forward.  Etc.  The first time I attended a Texas 2nd degree I sat there with my mouth hanging open astonished that almost the entire second section had been deleted.  But then the missing parts were delivered from the east instead of by the SD.  Okay, I've seen parts moved to other officers so why not this one.  But when it stopped there were still parts missing.  The part about the rise and fall of civilizations and the arch of history is some of my favorite material in all of the degrees.  It's why the second degree is my favorite.  I quoted lines about numberless worlds to the RW district ritual instructor.

He smiled sadly and told me I had just quoted parts of the long form lecture of the second degree to him.  They appear in the monitor but are rarely delivered in lodge these days.  There are other long/short options.  The long/short apron lecture option is present in all of the variations I've seen.

But back to the Chamber of Reflection.  Don't think that because no one local remembers a time when it was used that it was never a part of the ritual.  There are long forms that are now being lost because they are rarely used.  There are also forms that were lost in the past for the same reason.  The Chamber of Reflection is one of those lost forms.  Long ago is not the same as never.  Think about the wonderful variety of prayers at the opening and closing ceremonies in Texas.  All but two are lost in Illinois.  Just because something is lost in one jurisdiction doesn't mean it's lost in all jurisdictions either.

Chamber of Reflection is a restoration not an innovation.  Taking a candidate directly from the Chamber to the inside of a tiled lodge screwed it up completely.  That's the Chernobyl approach to it.  It'll leave a bad reaction that folks will remember for many years.  It took an idea that works when done correctly and did it totally wrong.  And now people will view the entire thing as a disaster not just the part that was wrong.


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## Roy Vance (May 18, 2013)

dfreybur said:


> Last night after lodge closed I had a discussion with the RW district ritual instructor about differences between California and Texas ritual. I quoted a couple of small bits that are present in California ritual that are absent in Texas ritual. He asked about other differences.
> 
> I pointed out that a huge part of the staircase lecture is done by the SD in all of the other jurisdictions where I've seen 2nd degrees. Look at the pillars, give that part, walk forward. Look at the number three, give that part, walk forward. Etc. The first time I attended a Texas 2nd degree I sat there with my mouth hanging open astonished that almost the entire second section had been deleted. But then the missing parts were delivered from the east instead of by the SD. Okay, I've seen parts moved to other officers so why not this one. But when it stopped there were still parts missing. The part about the rise and fall of civilizations and the arch of history is some of my favorite material in all of the degrees. It's why the second degree is my favorite. I quoted lines about numberless worlds to the RW district ritual instructor.
> 
> ...



Brother Freyburger;
I wholeheartedly agree with your last paragraph. In my parent lodge, San Angelo #570, our SD is the degree officer who delivers that part of the dialogue in the 2nd degree, all the way past the SW. I have never seen it done any other way. Maybe I am one of the lucky ones. My lodge had a rep for having one of the best degree teams in the area, I was told. That has been several years back, but, there are still some of the older ones from that team, one of which was my mentor/instructor, that like to do things the old way.


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## Frater Cliff Porter (May 18, 2013)

Claiming the Chamber is an innovation because it is not found in the lodge minutes is like claiming the same for a preparation room.  We don't write in the minutes that a man entered the preparation room, nor did lodges write they a man entered the chamber.  It is done outside the lodge.


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## Benjamin Baxter (May 20, 2013)

I will assume with all the defense and support of the Chamber of Reflection we will see a resolution. I will look for it at Grand Lodge this year.


Granbury #392
Glen Rose # 525


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## Roy Vance (May 26, 2013)

Bro. Bennylee said:


> I will assume with all the defense and support of the Chamber of Reflection we will see a resolution. I will look for it at Grand Lodge this year.
> 
> 
> Granbury #392
> Glen Rose # 525



I'll be surprised if it makes it to Grand Lodge. It would be cool if it did, but I don't think there will be enough backing to get it up there for consideration. Just my opinion, though. Too much controversy.


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## Benjamin Baxter (May 27, 2013)

I agree.  I wouldn't  want to be the one reading it in grand lodge.  I bet the room would be quiet for a minute,  though. It has been very controversial and read about a lot this year. :what:

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## chrmc (May 27, 2013)

Bro. Bennylee said:


> I agree.  I wouldn't  want to be the one reading it in grand lodge.  I bet the room would be quiet for a minute,  though. It has been very controversial and read about a lot this year. :what:



The sad thing is just that many people feel like this. We need to start having some of these discussion at Grand Lodge as part of the democratic process. A cornerstone of masonry is listening to opposing viewpoints and then making the best decision for the Craft as a whole. 
That is what we owe ourselves, past and future generations of Masons.


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## scialytic (Jun 18, 2013)

anthonywilson said:


> Sorry for the lack of replies, the notification e-mails have been going to my spam box for some reason. To answer the questions, yes, you can't play with the lights during the degree; we have a brother who liked to turn all of the lights off (with the exception of a couple) to create a more dramatic effect, after the forum it's not happening anymore. There was also something that was brought up in regards to the Bible, when it's open to the specific verses, the pages cannot be turned under no circumstances (even during the degrees). As Bro. BennyLee said, there are proper channels to get stuff changed/added, such as the chamber of reflection, do it properly. If anyone has the ability to attend a forum, please do so that way everyone can get the proper context on what I'm saying.



As with most things, "allowed" and "preferred" can be presented interchangably by those that are in positions to standardize things and feel compelled to do so. To my knowledge (confirmed by two separate DIs) the lights may beturned off and on at THE appropriate times. If you are being graded and you miss the timing it will get you dinged. It is not something that is "not allowed"--it just must be done properly. 

There are many variations to the strict versions presented at forums. Forums are a GREAT thing. So are the slight traditional enhancents and points-of-emphasis. To talk in absolutes about an oral tradition is fairly absurd when there are over 800 Lodges with histories going back over 150 as a sovereign jurisdiction. I understand what you are conveying, but Lodges that have the Chaplain pray at the furniture at opening and closing will not likely change their routine. To them that is an appropriate focus and not something that will likely be successfully challenged. That is something that has evolved over time and is a very appropriate innovation in my mind--if it is one--but it definately is a departation from the "instructed" ritual.

I guess my point of this rambling is to point out that not all "innovation" or differences from what you'll hear about in Forums are not "bad" and it is how our Ritual historically functions. We are clearly averse to change, but Freemasonry does evolve, and it is necessary. Standardizing ritual instruction definately helps keep things from moving quicker by promoting a "standard" and convincing us "Newer-Masons" from subscribing to radical innovations. Travel often and you will see differences that have evolved under the purview of their Masters for decades, and that is the way it has always been...and will be.

Be wary of innovation, but not obstinate. Weigh it and determine its appropriateness in Masonry and your heart. Freemasonry is dynamic and will always be. It is in our nature as Freemasons. There is always bad in good, and good in bad (checkered pavement). So search into "innovations" (at least to Texas Ritual) like the CoR and find what is appropriate to be applied. Clearly anteroom is a place for introspection, maybe that is something that could be encouraged. Making that time a place of solemnity and focus will clearly benefit the Candidate. Maybe black walls, skulls, and candles is a bit much for your Lodge; but clearly the intention of the room is in keeping with Masonic tradition. We need to analyze and synthesize in order to further Masonry for ourselves and especially the Candidate. Whether something is sanctioned or not I always try to look at what can I pull from all things and apply to improve myself, which is why you'll see me ask stupid questions and throwing out whacky ideas, but what I walk away with is an improved prospective.


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## scialytic (Jun 18, 2013)

As I mentioned in a previous post, this is a perfect example of a conversation that could (or should in my opinion based on the level of detail that we are delving into) be held in a private section for Master Masons only. I'm sure nothing is being violated, but one that is not otherwise privvy to the Forums in Texas may be able to extrapolate some very specific information from this thread. I'd suggest we try to be a little less direct in our descriptions here. I mean this to be a very respectful comment. I pray that it is received as such.


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## Roy Vance (Jun 18, 2013)

scialytic said:


> As with most things, "allowed" and "preferred" can be presented interchangably by those that are in positions to standardize things and feel compelled to do so. To my knowledge (confirmed by two separate DIs) the lights may beturned off and on at THE appropriate times. If you are being graded and you miss the timing it will get you dinged. It is not something that is "not allowed"--it just must be done properly.
> 
> There are many variations to the strict versions presented at forums. Forums are a GREAT thing. So are the slight traditional enhancents and points-of-emphasis. To talk in absolutes about an oral tradition is fairly absurd when there are over 800 Lodges with histories going back over 150 as a sovereign jurisdiction. I understand what you are conveying, but Lodges that have the Chaplain pray at the furniture at opening and closing will not likely change their routine. To them that is an appropriate focus and not something that will likely be successfully challenged. That is something that has evolved over time and is a very appropriate innovation in my mind--if it is one--but it definately is a departation from the "instructed" ritual.
> 
> ...



As long as you can benefit from something you see or hear in your travels, nothing is wasted. IMO, the "standardized" ritual is just that, "standardized", so that there is a guideline for all of us to follow in our degrees and opening and closing the Lodges. If we all gather around the Altar at closing for the Closing Charge and prayer, as is done in some lodges, then that is what, like you noted before, has evolved over the generations of Masters and Chaplains in those Lodges. I see nothing wrong or worrisome(?) about continuing to do it that way. We all take away from the Lodge something different each time we attend, because Masonry means something different to each of us and in different depths of the myth, symbols, and allagories. I am still finding things out about myself, with the help of Masonry, that I was not sure of.


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## JJones (Jul 16, 2013)

Not trying to resurrect a dead thread but I've read on this thread (and elsewhere) that a COR is used in the Yorkrite ritual somewhere.  Could someone direct me where to start looking to learn more about this, or at least point me to the correct body?

Please PM me if you can't say without giving away too much info.


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## dhouseholder (Jul 16, 2013)

Here's an idea...

If a lodge wants to do a CoR, let them do it well before the time the candidate is ready for initiation. Does GL have a law determining what a lodge can do with a candidate before the degree? Is this a subversive idea?


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## crono782 (Jul 16, 2013)

I've heard it suggested to do it a couple hours or even a day prior. Hard to make the argument that its part ritual when it's not even the same night hah. 


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## tomasball (Jul 16, 2013)

It is a ceremony.  Don't do ceremonies on candidates that aren't part of the prescribed Texas work.  Yes, there is a COR in the York Rite.  I don't think it would be appropriate to be more specific.  If you want to see it, take the York Rite.


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## JJones (Jul 16, 2013)

tomasball said:


> .  If you want to see it, take the York Rite.



Brother, I have taken the York Rite, all the way through KT.  That being said, my degrees were conferred in a festival which I spent the majority of sitting on the sidelines observing after working a nightshift the evening before.

I don't recall seeing or participating in a COR during the festival, which I why I asked.


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## tomasball (Jul 16, 2013)

Ah, well, let me private message you, then.


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## dhouseholder (Jul 16, 2013)

tomasball said:


> It is a ceremony.  Don't do ceremonies on candidates that aren't part of the prescribed Texas work.  Yes, there is a COR in the York Rite.  I don't think it would be appropriate to be more specific.  If you want to see it, take the York Rite.



Then why aren't Table Lodges verboten? 

I understand that my line of questioning would certainly give my DDGM gray(er) hairs, but do you see my point here?

Moreover, I am surprised none of the Traditional Observance lodges are pushing for this.


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## JJones (Jul 16, 2013)

Bro Tomasball brings up a good point about using a COR.  Even if you claim you aren't using it as part of the ritual its still pretty iffy and actions like that may make it more difficult for such a practice to get accepted in the long run.

Has anyone seriously thought about making a proposal and going about it legitimately?

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## tomasball (Jul 16, 2013)

Table Lodges were approved for use several years ago by a vote of Grand Lodge.  It was presented in a commitee report, I think Membership Maintenance, talked over, and approved.


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## dfreybur (Jul 16, 2013)

dhouseholder said:


> Here's an idea...
> 
> If a lodge wants to do a CoR, let them do it well before the time the candidate is ready for initiation. Does GL have a law determining what a lodge can do with a candidate before the degree? Is this a subversive idea?



It's too late for that for the next few years.  Some lodge failed to understand what is and isn't a part of the ritual so they mixed it in the middle of the ritual.  From this what people will remember is "chamber of reflection bad" not "mixing random stuff into the middle of ritual bad".  It's the wrong lesson but it was triggered by the wrong implementation.


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## rhitland (Jul 17, 2013)

I believe it is to late this year to submit resolutions although it would be wise to present it in a year with a pro CoR GM is in the Grand East and if Brother Porter is correct looks like we will have one soon.  
I was under the impression the ritual started with the knock on the door is that incorrect?  
I can see how painting a room black and putting a bunch of mirrors in it could cause alarm in Texas and that was maybe to much but I am sure the intent was to enhance the new brothers experience and I sure hope he is not caught up in the middle of this tizzy.  I wonder what else they did if they had instructions for the candidate or a task to complete before being initiated because it seems a little over bearing to care how the ante room is decorated or what mystical name a lodge chooses to give it.  I know this has been an issue for quiet some time in our Grand jurisdiction and I never really understood who and why they had an issue with it.  I know the CoW could not condone such actions because it is not specifically stating in our ritual to paint the ante room black and call it a CoR but what is curious is that so much energy is put into trying to legislate these problems away as opposed to educate.  
With that said there is nothing wrong with letting the candidate absorb what was read to him from the monitor for an appropriate amount of time but the much more important portion is as brother tomasball said in that we need to be proficient in the tools we do have available to us before we start trying to fashion or retro fit old ones.


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## JJones (Jul 17, 2013)

I agree Bro. dfreybur, there are certain channels and procedures that must be followed to have the CoR accepted.  I know many of us Texans have a rebellious attitude sometimes but trying to circumvent GL law will ultimately do more harm than good to get it accepted.

A black room with mirrors and skulls may be too much for some, it's true.  I feel it would at least be good, in my opinion, to get CoRs accepted along with official guidelines for their their use and furnishings.  Even if it's just a dark anteroom with some of the less controversial symbolism (as opposed to being used as a storage room) it'd be a good start.  Using one could be completely optional to the lodge and if it gains popularity or becomes more accepted then baby-steps could be taken to introduce the other elements.


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## dfreybur (Jul 19, 2013)

JJones said:


> I agree Bro. dfreybur, there are certain channels and procedures that must be followed to have the CoR accepted.



Thing is I've seen bible presentations and "knife and fork degrees" that were done with no conflict.  It was because they were conducted at a point between the end of the degree and the beginning of the closing in the case of the bible presentation or after the closing in the case of knife and fork.  We're supposed to teach when non-ritual action is allowed to take place.  Had that teaching been followed I suggest this problem would never have happened.



> I know many of us Texans have a rebellious attitude sometimes but trying to circumvent GL law will ultimately do more harm than good to get it accepted.



My initial reaction was "It happens outside of tile lodge and is  therefore not a part of the ritual.  That makes it outside of the bounds  of rulings by the committee on work or the GM".  Then I learned what had actually been done.

The problem was *not* actually doing a Chamber of Reflection.  The problem was introducing in during the tiled ritual not at a point normally reserved for free form activities.  I am not sure if the grand line used this mistake as an excuse to hammer Chamber of Reflection (bad move by unlearned brothers) or if it was because of screwing with ritual (good move by well learned brothers).  Either way this debacle has ensured it needs legislation.

I have a long list of items I'd rather put forward for legislation most of which I'll never get around to before I would want to deal with restoring lost ritual items.


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## rhitland (Jul 19, 2013)

Ah I knew there was more to it than black paint and mirrors!  



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## JJones (Jul 19, 2013)

> Thing is I've seen bible presentations and "knife and fork degrees" that were done with no conflict. It was because they were conducted at a point between the end of the degree and the beginning of the closing in the case of the bible presentation or after the closing in the case of knife and fork. We're supposed to teach when non-ritual action is allowed to take place. Had that teaching been followed I suggest this problem would never have happened.



Ah, I didn't realize anyone was trying to use it during a tiled ritual.  If a candidate had been put in a CoR well before the ritual started then it may have been a non-issue.  It seems it'd be unwise to try and do that now since it's gotten the attention of the GL though.

I agree there are other matters that are probably more pressing which need to be addressed.


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## dfreybur (Jul 19, 2013)

JJones said:


> Ah, I didn't realize anyone was trying to use it during a tiled ritual.  If a candidate had been put in a CoR well before the ritual started then it may have been a non-issue.



Right, but it does depend on the insecurity and learnedness of the grand line.  They could object anyways.  But that's a hypothetical case now.  It's hypothetical case that triggers by rebellious side but it is not what happened.


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## crono782 (Jul 19, 2013)

dfreybur said:


> Right, but it does depend on the insecurity and learnedness of the grand line.



It seems to me that those traits are rarely in proper proportions. 




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## lourocks (Jul 20, 2013)

Im from grand lodge of ny before my first degree i was placed in the reflection chamber what a experience

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## giovanni (Jul 20, 2013)

anthonywilson said:


> Brothers,
> 
> Today during our certification exam a letter, that was written by our Grand Master, was read and it appears that Lodges are turning their anteroom into a "Reflection Chamber" which is a room painted black, with mirrors, and candles; this is based off of European Lodges (or rites). If you visit, or know of, lodges that use this room (or any elements of it) please contact your D.D.G.M so he can contact Waco for an investigation.



I think that only Lodges working AASR ritual adopted the CoR. Mine did, as well as most Italian lodges of Grande Oriente d'Italia. Emulation lodges have no CoR.


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## widows son (Jul 21, 2013)

We use the emulation here in Ontario Canada. And there definitely is no chamber of reflection.


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