# Memphis-Misraim Rite



## bupton52 (Nov 19, 2012)

Has anyone ever heard of this? Are there any organizations that are lawfully practicing this rite in the United States or anywhere?


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## widows son (Nov 19, 2012)

I also heard it had been banned, I ask this in an earlier thread with no response. I think has something to do with these rite emerging from the grand orient de France which is not recognized by the UGLE


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## Ceasare (Nov 19, 2012)

Seems to be unrecognized. . .any offical word?


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## CajunTinMan (Nov 19, 2012)

Michigan masonic law 1800s

Egyptian Rite of Memphis.
Inquiry is made as to whether a Master Mason in any way violates his obligations by joining the so-called Egyptian Rite of Memphis, pretending to be Masons; and whether he would render himself liable to charges for unmasonic conduct for affiliating or associating with an expelled Master Mason, and aiding in the formation of Egyptian Rite Masons.
The only limitation placed upon Masons in joining organizations, other than that of Ancient Craft Masonry, is contained in Article 8, Section 2, which reads as follows:
"Section 2. Any and all organizations, associations or persons within the State of Michigan professing to have any authority, powers or privileges in Ancient Craft Masonry not derived from this Grand Lodge, are declared to be clandestine and illegal, and all Masonic intercourse with, or recognition of them or any of them, is prohibited."
If the Egyptian Rite of Memphis claims to exercise any of the " authority, powers or privileges of Ancient Craft Masonry," all Masonic intercourse with it, or recognition of it, is prohibited, and Masons connecting themselves with it, or lending aid and assistance to it, would be amenable to Masonic discipline.
G. M. Bowring (21), 1896, p. 23.


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## CajunTinMan (Nov 19, 2012)

Pulled from another forum:

No  ... it is of clandestine nature because it does not conform to the 3 degree system of 'regular' Freemasonry as required since 1817 union of the Ancients & Moderns which formed the UGLE.  In most regular GLs, this system is specifically banned for a number of reasons.   ... As for any educational value, that would be up to the individual as to what he find interesting.


Clandestine Lodges that use this system in attempt to claim more ancient Masonic heritage and legitimacy because of lack of recognition from 'regular' Gls & of the UGLE.   ... The fact is, the old 'operative' Masonry only had TWO degrees and in most cases only one general Obligation. The multiple degrees of modern Freemasonry were developed in the 1700's. Then separated in 1817 by agreement & Union of the Ancients & Modern GL into the 'Craft Lodge' (3 degrees) and the SR or YR (4th thru 32 degrees).


The Memphis Misraim system developed in the early 1800 and continued to expand the number of it's degrees thought out the 1800's.   I believe it does contain a little similarity to 'regular' Freemasonry in the first 32 degrees. (I have to recheck this myself).  Much of this Masonic system is of French origin or Continental based.  


Because it became very political in the mid- 1800's, it was banned in several European countries, abt 1840. Memphis Misraim system is known to have died a couple of times, therefore the resurrection of the system by certain individuals is questionable. It's continued line of authority is questionable as well as modern revision of some of the degrees (< 50 years ??).


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## widows son (Nov 20, 2012)

Ya there something like 70 degrees total. But I'm still wondering, what exactly isnt recognized? Is their degrees different?


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## CajunTinMan (Nov 20, 2012)

From what I have been able to find out is that they have their own first 3Â°. Which is contrary to the rights of theGrand lodge which has jurisdiction over all the first 3Â°.  There was a time when the Scottish Rite had their own first 3Â°.  But that was done away with with the union of the two grand lodges in England back in the 1800s.  Ever since that time the grand lodges have had sole jurisdiction over first 3Â°. There are a few lodges here in Louisiana that still put on Scottish Rite blue lodge degrees but they're not done under the Scottish Rite and only done with permission of the Louisiana Grand lodge.


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## widows son (Nov 20, 2012)

I see thanks for the clarification. I assume they are unspiritual, if it emerged in France where masonry is unspiritual.


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## suomilander (Nov 20, 2012)

The Grand Orient of France in 1862 assumed control from the two creators and promptly shelved it. Any lodges from it were prohibed from conferring any of the higher degrees. All titles of the rite were prohibed.


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## CajunTinMan (Nov 20, 2012)

Some people try to make something of Masonry that it is not. Not just the profane and the fake Masons, but some within Masonry too. They try to form connections that are not there becuse they want Masonry to be more then it is. Thats why we have a lot of the clandestine bodies who claim to have the "true" Masonic mystical knowledge that regular Blue lodge Masons don't. You know the ones that shine a false dark light on Masonry. Im not talking about Masons who seek knowledge about the true mysteries of Masonry. I'm talking about the ones who go beyond searching for light, into the realm of pure fantasy, and then onto false teachings. Although some of they're teachings may seem interesting and they're claimed mystical connections exciting they are still perverse and un-Masonic. It is the duty of the Grand Lodges to determine which organizations Masonry should be connected with.


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## KSigMason (Nov 20, 2012)

The Grand Orient of Italy I believe practices this Rite and they are currently recognized by America.  In the US the authority over these rites clandestine rites actually falls under the Grand College of Rites.


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## CajunTinMan (Nov 20, 2012)

It does but the State Grand Lodges also have the authority to ban membership in different bodies.


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## BryanMaloney (Nov 21, 2012)

A few words on the subject by Mr. Pike and Mr. Cummings:

http://scottishrite.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/9.Memphis.pdf


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## widows son (Nov 21, 2012)

I am going to read that in full, but just have glanced over it, seems quite interesting to say the least, thx for the info.


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## Brother JC (Nov 21, 2012)

There are Grand Lodges outside the US, recognized by many of our Grand Lodges (check your pantagraph, a.k.a. list of grand lodges), which practice the M+MR. And yes, you can sit in their Lodge with them.


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## widows son (Nov 21, 2012)

I'm still curious as to why the college of rites is the only that has these rites in their possession, I know its for Masonic research but in terms of practice why have them of they're irregular?


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## Bro_Vick (Nov 22, 2012)

widows son said:


> I'm still curious as to why the college of rites is the only that has these rites in their possession, I know its for Masonic research but in terms of practice why have them of they're irregular?



I did a lecture on this, that I have given a couple of times.  In practical terms it started with the Grand Orient of France becoming an irregular body, and the fact that the degree system itself and its origins is very suspicious, Pike believed the entire thing to be a money scam, and fought vigorously against it.  While all degrees in Freemasonry are somewhat convoluted in their origin, the Memphis Rite comes across as being flat out fraudulent.  Marconis de Negre claimed that a man by the name of Samuel Honis, a native of Cairo, brought it from Egypt in 1814.  Marconis used the "degrees" as a method to gain favor and regularity within the Grand Orient of France, where the rite was recognized.  Please realize that during this time in Western Europe Egypt was very in vogue and fashionable.  When it was imported in to the US, its home camp was set up in Detroit, and the degrees 4 - 95 were conferred in an hour and a half.  Pike found this to be nothing more than degree peddling as degrees were about $100 (~$2000 in today's money), and Pike declared that the degree numbers could not be used in any correspondence with a AASR.

It became a struggle between the Scottish Rite and the Memphis Rite, but as other eluded to, the Scottish Rite always yielded jurisdiction to the Grand Lodge, and the Memphis Rite not so much.  It didn't help that the leaders of the Memphis Rite in America were not that upright as Masons.  So the degrees are often compared to degree peddling and used for Masonic schemes.

Recent organizations in America who took the Marconis approach include the Grand Orient of USA, Regular Grand Lodge of North Carolina and others.

So that is why it is banned, Arturo De Hoyos has done comparison of the degrees several times over, and they seem to provide little to no additional light.

Getting the degrees really isn't worth your time, and could cause expulsion as the Rite has a bad reputation in most western countries.

S&F,
-Bro Vick


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## widows son (Nov 22, 2012)

Very interesting. So does the grand orient de France give a different version of the craft degrees, and the AASR is prevalent there as well correct?


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## Bro_Vick (Nov 23, 2012)

widows son said:


> Very interesting. So does the grand orient de France give a different version of the craft degrees, and the AASR is prevalent there as well correct?



I don't want to hijack the thread to discuss the convoluted workings of French Freemasonry, which is nothing more than a lot of Human Drama.

S&F,
-Bro Vick


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## widows son (Nov 23, 2012)

Lol. I hear they dont even acknowledge the GAOTU, and the GM meets with goverment ministers. According to Wikipedia anyway.


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## bjdeverell (Nov 30, 2012)

For one: they allow women which is a big no no. Other than that, they allow non-Master Masons to join and go through their EA FC and MM then the 4th - 95th Degrees. It's clandestine in every sense of the words and if a Regular MM joins then yes you will be breaking your Masonic Oath and are subject to suspension or even expulsion.


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## suomilander (Dec 1, 2012)

The Rite has been banned since 1862 by the Grand Orient of France after the GOF absorped it and put all on the shelf. Any MMr lodges were banned from conferring any degree above 3rd and 1-3 had to conform to GOF rituals. All MMR titles & honors were also banned.


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## suomilander (Dec 1, 2012)

The GOF had Adoptive rites which didn't sit well. In 1870 the GOF was de-recognized by most of the world because it abolished the office of GM and disavowing the belief in GOD.


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## suomilander (Dec 1, 2012)

the creators of the rite added 62 degrees to the SR 33 by purloining other degrees from defunct rites


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## bjdeverell (Dec 2, 2012)

I knew all that except that the GOF dissolved the office of Grand Master. How does that even work? Who is the leader of the GOF if they've no Grand Master?


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## suomilander (Dec 12, 2012)

The Grand Orient of France abolished the office of Grand Master in the 1870's replacing it with a board of comissioners.
the National Grand Lodge of France, the current GL not recognized, extended the term of GM to five years starting with the new GM, but the GM presiding at the time thought it applied to him and wouldn't give up the office...went to court etc.


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## widows son (Dec 12, 2012)

The French.


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## athelstane839 (May 29, 2013)

Ok let's make sure we are not misinformed. The rite of Memphis- Mizraim. At one point was allowed in tge usa and in other countries and is still functioning as a masonic rite for instant United Grand lodge of England acknowledges the rite so does France, Ireland, Canada and Spain. 
The fact that women are members is not the problem, throughout Freemasons rich history there have been woman mason even up to this very day so how on earth is that a big no no. That closed minded thinking. Look it up for your self before you start preaching woman can't join they have to join a  all female masonic lodge. Here a question god made Adam and Eve and in the garden they both wore aprons yes or no? 
So how can a woman not be a masons all woman has to do is trace he Masonic bloodline starting with queen Sheba than to tubalcain mother and even tubalcain sister Awan but to eve in the garden it will become clear that females have a right to masonry. 
The reason that Memphis-mizraim is not practice in the USA comes to politics and old fashion way of thinking you would think that if freemasonry started in Egypt than they would have an Egyptian rite. I heard of the Memphis-mizraim rite after becoming the knights commander for the knights of St.Andrews and it was from a active 33rd who invited me into it as an invitational  only order. 
The biggest problem with grand lodges is that the Memphis rite has degrees 1-3 and this conflicts with them even degrees 4-33 it conflicts with the Scottish rite if the Memphis mizraim who drop the first 33 degrees than it can become a activate body for the general brothers. And allow brothers more light by obtaining degrees 34-99 usually degrees 96-99 is for officers and I even heard of degree100 but thats tgeir version of sovereign grand commander 


Freemason Connect Mobile


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## Jackel (Oct 20, 2013)

I had done some research of my own a while ago when I first heard of the Egyptian Rite. From what I was able to determine, one of the main reasons that it is irregular is that supposedly the degrees deal with alchemy and apotheosis.


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## BryanMaloney (Oct 20, 2013)

First, freemasonry didn't start in Egypt.
Second, Memphis-Misraim is as Egyptian as my grandmother's china hutch from Sears.


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## dfreybur (Oct 21, 2013)

Jackel said:


> From what I was able to determine, one of the main reasons that it is irregular is that supposedly the degrees deal with alchemy and apotheosis.



Since our craft lodges degrees deal with alchemy and apotheosis that doesn't really make sense.  The mysticism is there for the noticing.

I think their degrees might work in the context of exhibition degrees within the Allied masonic Degrees framework.  They would be interesting for educational purposes as long as done carefully so as never to claim to make Masons.


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## Jackel (Oct 21, 2013)

I don't recall there being any portion of my craft lodge degrees pertaining to actually becoming God...


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## dfreybur (Oct 21, 2013)

[h=2]aÂ·pothÂ·eÂ·oÂ·sis[/h]  [uh-poth-ee-oh-sis, ap-uh-thee-uh-sis]  Show IPA  
   noun, plural aÂ·pothÂ·eÂ·oÂ·ses  [uh-poth-ee-oh-seez, ap-uh-thee-uh-seez]  Show IPA . 1. the elevation or exaltation of a person to the rank of a god. 

2. the ideal example; epitome; quintessence: This poem is the apotheosis of lyric expression.  



*Origin: * 
 1570–80;  < Late Latin  < Greek.  See apo-, theo-, -osis 

Thanks for getting me to look up the word apotheosis!  Until then I only knew the word under its second meaning - setting an ideal example.  Or rather targeting an ideal example.  So between the two meanings number one does not appear in any degree I've seen or read and if it appears in M-M that explains why it is irregular.  And number two appears in pretty much all of our degrees.

The alchemy part is there whether you look for it or not.  Targeting an ideal example ...


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## Jackel (Oct 21, 2013)

The point I am trying to make is that the Rites of Memphis-Misraim supposedly deal with how someone can actually become God through the use of mysticism and has heavy occult influences.


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## BryanMaloney (Oct 21, 2013)

Freemasonry is highly Platonic, thus the "theos" of Masonic "apotheosis" is not the "ho Theos" of theology and religion. This "theos" would be closer to the "essence" or "substantia"--to shed the unnecessary and become "more human".


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## MarkR (Oct 22, 2013)

John 10:34
Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, ye are gods?

Yes, Freemasonry teaches us to seek the divine within.


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## BryanMaloney (Oct 22, 2013)

MarkR said:


> John 10:34
> Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, ye are gods?
> 
> Yes, Freemasonry teaches us to seek the divine within.



How would Islam see that? They are rather persnickity about separating the Divine from human in all points and aspects.


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## dfreybur (Oct 22, 2013)

BryanMaloney said:


> How would Islam see that? They are rather persnickity about separating the Divine from human in all points and aspects.



They encourage personal excellence, which when it comes down to it is doing your best to emulate divine.  There's a line in the sand somewhere.  One side of the line is encouraged excellence.  The other side of the line is hubris.  I think the position of the line varies more by individual than by sect.

I slept on it.  In the morning I thought about a spectrum.  Setting an example.  Living up to an ideal.  Emulating the divine in your actions.  The two meanings listed in the dictionary aren't as different as I thought when I first read them.  They form a spectrum that does not have to cross the line to hubris.  How much can one person emulate those in our sacred writings before drawing the admiration of some and the ire of others?


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## Brother JC (Oct 22, 2013)

One point of interest (and gasoline to the fire); the _Rite_ of Memphis-Misraim is not irregular, any more than the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite is. The majority of the Grand Lodges practicing it, however, *are* irregular and unrecognized.


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## crono782 (Oct 22, 2013)

Does this mean that there are/were regular recognized lodges practicing this currently/in the past?


My Freemasonry HD


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## Brother JC (Oct 22, 2013)

Yes, there are GLs in other parts of the world that practice it and are recognized. I don't have exact locations, though I believe there are some in South America, and also some in the Balkan region.


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## Brother JC (Oct 22, 2013)

This takes us back to our old friend, the List of Lodges - Masonic (Pantagraph). In it, the Rite a Grand Lodge practices are usually listed, along with whether your GL recognizes them.

As to the RM+M, and the A&PRM, there are Lodges in Venezuela and the Dominican Republic that you may visit. Also, Italy and Romania.


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## Devyn (Dec 30, 2013)

What intrigues me about Memphis-Misraim is that, arguably, the first sacred temples erected in stone were dedicated to pre-Judeo-Christian concepts of God. Further, the Egyptians were responsible for so many developments in the sciences and arts that their contributions to humanity can't be easily ignored. It makes perfect sense to me that Egyptian iconography, spirit, cosmology, mysticism, and culture can play as strong a role in this beautiful system of allegory as the raising of the great temple of the Jewish people.

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## dfreybur (Dec 31, 2013)

Devyn said:


> What intrigues me about Memphis-Misraim is that, arguably, the first sacred temples erected in stone were dedicated to pre-Judeo-Christian concepts of God.



I'm not sure how arguable that is.  There are plenty of archeological sites with temples older than Abraham.  Humans have been devout in one way or another going back much further than him.



> Further, the Egyptians were responsible for so many developments in the sciences and arts that their contributions to humanity can't be easily ignored. It makes perfect sense to me that Egyptian iconography, spirit, cosmology, mysticism, and culture can play as strong a role in this beautiful system of allegory as the raising of the great temple of the Jewish people.



If you have a chance to check out an AMORC museum or lodge room, definitely go for it.  They are filled with such references.

I would like Allied Masonic Degrees to try out Memphis-Misraim for these reasons.


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## memphisrite (May 4, 2014)

Ceasare said:


> Seems to be unrecognized. . .any offical word?



Dear Brother:

Memphis Rite, Misraim Rite and "Memphis-Misraim Rite" are three different rites, not to be confused.

As right now, Ancient and Primitive Memphis Rite Is regular in the Dominican Republic under the recognition of Grand Lodge of the Dominican Republic (Gran Logia de la Republica Dominicana), and in Ecuador, Under the recognition of the Grand Lodge Of Ecuador. Both Grand Lodges are recognized by the UGLE.

It works on the three degrees system and follows all Landmarks. As Happens with other rites, there is irregular lodges working on this rite, and mos probably, any lodge working it outside the DR and Ecuador are Irregular.

Even so, in the USA there's no Regular Lodge working on this rite.

At this moment, Im W:.M:. of my lodge, "Caballeros de Memphis no.50" which works in the A.P.M.R. in the Dominican Republic.

The so called "Memphis Misraim Rite" and the "Misraim Rites" have nothing to do with this rite...


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## MRichard (May 24, 2014)

Here is an interesting link regarding Weston Jarvis and Memphis Misraim. http://www.ssanctuaryusa.com/landmarks.html . Apparently, he used to be a member and was expelled.


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## vangoedenaam (May 26, 2014)

^^ soap opera ^^


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## Warrior1256 (Aug 29, 2014)

KSigMason said:


> The Grand Orient of Italy I believe practices this Rite and they are currently recognized by America.  In the US the authority over these rites clandestine rites actually falls under the Grand College of Rites.


Thank you for this information. Until your response I had not even heard of the Grand College of Rites.


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## ClandestineRite (Sep 22, 2016)

For any that wish to further their studies in Egyptian Masonry:

ClandestineRite.weebly.com


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