# Beyond the craft



## David612 (Jul 29, 2019)

In my jurisdiction one must be a master mason for two years prior to being considered for membership in an appendant body, in time I hope to go through both the Royal Arch and the Scottish Rite however in your opinion brethren, where would you start?


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## Matt L (Jul 29, 2019)

My advice is to take it slow.  In some jurisdictions they are handing Brothers petitions for the York Rite and Scottish Rite right after you're raised and overwhelming them.  Learn the meaning of the lessons of each degree, start learning a part in your lodge before you go further. 

When you do, I would start in the York Rite, it answers a lot of questions that you may have from your 3 degrees. The Order of the Temple is some of the most beautiful work in Masonry.  The Scottish Rite Rite work in full form is outstanding too.  

All the best,

Matt


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## David612 (Jul 29, 2019)

Matt L said:


> My advice is to take it slow.  In some jurisdictions they are handing Brothers petitions for the York Rite and Scottish Rite right after you're raised and overwhelming them.  Learn the meaning of the lessons of each degree, start learning a part in your lodge before you go further.
> 
> When you do, I would start in the York Rite, it answers a lot of questions that you may have from your 3 degrees. The Order of the Temple is some of the most beautiful work in Masonry.  The Scottish Rite Rite work in full form is outstanding too.
> 
> ...


Thank for the tip-
The restrictions in my jurisdiction as well as my time o can allocate to the craft give me no option but to go slow.
I was thinking I would look to the Royal Arch in about a year when eligible


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## Winter (Jul 29, 2019)

Both York and Scottish Rite are wonderful experiences.  I have gone through both.  But Craft Masonry has such a deep well to explore. Don't be so hasty to move on.


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## David612 (Jul 29, 2019)

I have no intention of moving on, I intend to add too my Masonic experience.
As it stands I’m holding office in two craft lodges and have no intention of that stopping any time soon


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## David612 (Jul 29, 2019)

That said, I’m going to have to say no at some point.. one cannot serve as a principal officer in more than one lodge I have been advised  however I’m position myself to be able to go through every chair and avoid being rushed eastward.


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## Winter (Jul 30, 2019)

The degrees for both Rites are great and an experience I recommend them for any Brother. And just because you join the Rites doesnt mean you have to be active in them to the exclusion of Craft Masonry either.  Though that does become the case for many and the Rites themselves will likely try to encourage more activity.  At the end of the day, find the niche in Freemasonry that makes you happy. Looking forward to your impressions after going through the degrees. 

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## Brother JC (Jul 30, 2019)

I love how David made no mention of the York Rite and yet every US Mason went right there...
I’d say to go Royal Arch first, personally, when the time comes.


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## Winter (Jul 30, 2019)

Brother JC said:


> I love how David made no mention of the York Rite and yet every US Mason went right there...
> I’d say to go Royal Arch first, personally, when the time comes.



In the United States, the Royal Arch is part of the York Rite.


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## Brother JC (Jul 30, 2019)

But David isn’t in the US and specifically stated Royal Arch. He also stated he has to wait two years but everyone told him to take his time. So many assumptions and no one really reads the question.
But please, carry on. *rolls eyes*


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## Winter (Jul 30, 2019)

Brother JC said:


> But David isn’t in the US and specifically stated Royal Arch. He also stated he has to wait two years but everyone told him to take his time. So many assumptions and no one really reads the question.
> But please, carry on. *rolls eyes*



I honestly didn't know the York Rite and Royal Arch were separate overseas and was posting based on how what i knew.  And your post moves the discussion forward, how?


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## David612 (Jul 30, 2019)

Brother JC said:


> I love how David made no mention of the York Rite and yet every US Mason went right there...
> I’d say to go Royal Arch first, personally, when the time comes.


To illustrate the differences, the AASR in my area is Trinitarian Christian only and while I don’t meet that qualification there is talk of change to adopt the universal AASR ritual as practiced elsewhere in my jurisdiction, where as the Royal Arch is universal.
I think the Royal arch is the way forward as it also has a lot of support in my area-
When it comes to AASR I may just have to do the Master craftsman thing to fill the time until the changes happen.


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## Bloke (Jul 31, 2019)

Winter said:


> I honestly didn't know the York Rite and Royal Arch were separate overseas and was posting based on how what i knew.  And your post moves the discussion forward, how?


There is no such thing as "York Rite" in Australia.

A MM has a few options here in Victoria
1 Mark Master Mason
2 Holy Royal Arch
3 18th Degree (Rose Croix) which is in the AASR (either under Scotland or Australia) which would lead onto 30th etc
4 SRIA (the Masonic Rosicrucians - Societas Rosicruciana in Anglia )
5 and some others like OSM (Order of the Secret Monitor) or RER (Rectified Scottish Rite) or even The Shrine (AANOMS)

Most would go for 1 then 2 OR 3  but lots of MMs seem to be joining just Holy Royal Arch..
http://www.lodgedevotion.net/devoti...ic-Orders-Worked-by-Victorian-Masons-200904-1
http://www.lodgedevotion.net/devoti...ic-Orders-Worked-by-Victorian-Masons-200904-1


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## Winter (Jul 31, 2019)

That's interesting to know.  So, in the HRA there, how many degrees are there? I confess very limited knowledge of that side of the appendent bodies of Freemasonry. I took the YR degrees through KT but decided I wasnt a good fit and left.  

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## bro.william (Jul 31, 2019)

This is the structure, such as it is, of the side degrees in English Freemasonry.  I would imagine there to be similarities in Australia, but that's just an only-slightly-educated guess.  I'm sure Bro. Bloke can comment further.  Basically, though, there is no York Rite as it exists in the States.  The side degrees operate independently (though some do share admin via Mark Masons Hall in London).  The Holy Royal Arch is, in English Freemasonry, considered to be the "completion" of the 3rd degree (that particular wording being a relic of the merger between the Moderns and the Antients), and is administered by Freemason's Hall, as is the Craft, and I'd guess that most English Freemasons who stick around after raising are members of Chapter as well as the Craft.  (In fact, English Chapters bear the same lodge no. as their associated Craft lodge.)  Other than that, though, there's no sense of going up the ranks as I assume there would be in the York Rite.


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## Winter (Jul 31, 2019)

A full half of the appendent bodies there are restricted to Trinitarian Christians? Is there ever any pushback on that in these days of inclusiveness?

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## bro.william (Jul 31, 2019)

To be honest, I do not know.  I'm still new enough that I'm still feeling my way around, and I've only got as far as the Royal Arch, in any case.  Wish I could help you more.  Speaking only for myself, I'm an inclusive sort of guy.  

I was under the impression that the AASR in the States also required Trinitarian belief.  Or am I wrong?


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## David612 (Jul 31, 2019)

Winter said:


> A full half of the appendent bodies there are restricted to Trinitarian Christians? Is there ever any pushback on that in these days of inclusiveness?
> 
> Transmitted via R5 astromech using Tapatalk Galactic


Not sure about the UK but here in my jurisdiction there isn’t push back as there are other things to do however the appendant bodies are learning that either they adapt to the changing demographic of the blue lodge or in time they will be handing in charters.

Here, the whole Animal Farm “some are more equal than others” thing tends to get get little traction and my generation seem to just be refusing to engage at all with these orders locally, but RA and OSM are doing quite well (as well as an organisation who draws its membership from the blue lodge can be anyway)


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## Brother JC (Jul 31, 2019)

Winter said:


> your post moves the discussion forward, how?



It helped to educate at least one person and may have made others do a bit of research before they posted, something we’re supposedly good at.

And in case you didn’t get a direct reply, there is one degree in the HRA; the HRA.


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## Winter (Jul 31, 2019)

bro.william said:


> I was under the impression that the AASR in the States also required Trinitarian belief.  Or am I wrong?



Unless they changed it when I wasn't paying attention, the Scottish Rite here in the States is open to all Master Masons.  (I'm in the Orient of Florida, myself) 

The Chapter and Council of the York Rite also open to non Christians while the Commandery has been traditionally for those who profess the Christian faith. Though in recent years, exceptions have been made for those who will swear willingness to defend the Christian faith. 

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## Elexir (Jul 31, 2019)

I think we might have a diffrence in culture here. In general there is a more conservative culture in Europe then in the USA in regards to orders in general.


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## Winter (Jul 31, 2019)

Elexir said:


> I think we might have a diffrence in culture here. In general there is a more conservative culture in Europe then in the USA in regards to orders in general.


I believe that.  I can also see how it might lead to slower change as well.  

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## David612 (Aug 1, 2019)

And Australia is different again.


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## Matt Ross (Aug 1, 2019)

David612 said:


> In my jurisdiction one must be a master mason for two years prior to being considered for membership in an appendant body, in time I hope to go through both the Royal Arch and the Scottish Rite however in your opinion brethren, where would you start?


I just became a Master Mason in June, but here in Michigan you're allowed to join Appendent bodies as soon as you get your dues card. I'm starting with York Rite first simply because I know I'll do both rites eventually and I know I want to do all the Scottish Rite degrees and that will take some time.


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## Winter (Aug 1, 2019)

David612 said:


> And Australia is different again.



Is this what the Appendant Bodies look like in Australia?


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## David612 (Aug 4, 2019)

We don’t use dues cards here- originally I was sure my hopes of joining the AASR was going to be in vain (short of driving 3 hours to a universal chapter) but it sounds like there may be hope yet.


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## CLewey44 (Aug 5, 2019)

Winter said:


> Unless they changed it when I wasn't paying attention, the Scottish Rite here in the States is open to all Master Masons.  (I'm in the Orient of Florida, myself)
> 
> The Chapter and Council of the York Rite also open to non Christians while the Commandery has been traditionally for those who profess the Christian faith. Though in recent years, exceptions have been made for those who will swear willingness to defend the Christian faith.
> 
> Transmitted via R5 astromech using Tapatalk Galactic


Great point, I know a guy that was not a Christian but said because his family members were all Christians he would defend it. Made sense to me I suppose. We'll see if the KT is ever called to go back to 'crusading' if he'd follow the leader then lol.


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## Bloke (Aug 11, 2019)

Winter said:


> Is this what the Appendant Bodies look like in Australia?


Hahahahhahaa!


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## Bloke (Aug 11, 2019)

Winter said:


> ...So, in the HRA there, how many degrees are there?...


.

Well, that's an interesting question. In Holy Royal Arch, one might say no degrees, but rather the Third Degree is Completed... but putting that detail aside, there are two ceremonies..


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## jermy Bell (Aug 24, 2019)

After I was raised I was quickly approached to join Scottish rite and the shrine. I. Said I had no intention to leave my blue lodge. I want to learn everything I can about my blue lodge.


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## bro.william (Sep 17, 2019)

jermy Bell said:


> After I was raised I was quickly approached to join Scottish rite and the shrine. I. Said I had no intention to leave my blue lodge. I want to learn everything I can about my blue lodge.



I joined the HRA pretty sharpish after being raised, as it's considered in the UGLE to be the "completion of the third" and your local HRA chapter is, in effect, an extension of your craft lodge.  I've since been approached about the KTs (which I reckon I'll eventually do), and I've made enquiries about the Mark (which I expect will be my next degree), but my heart is most fundamentally with my craft lodge, because that's the basis and root of it all.  Whatever other degrees any of us might or might not do, we are all Master Masons, and that's where my sense of brotherhood lies.


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## David612 (Sep 17, 2019)

bro.william said:


> I joined the HRA pretty sharpish after being raised, as it's considered in the UGLE to be the "completion of the third" and your local HRA chapter is, in effect, an extension of your craft lodge.  I've since been approached about the KTs (which I reckon I'll eventually do), and I've made enquiries about the Mark (which I expect will be my next degree), but my heart is most fundamentally with my craft lodge, because that's the basis and root of it all.  Whatever other degrees any of us might or might not do, we are all Master Masons, and that's where my sense of brotherhood lies.


I too would like to go through the arch, it does seem like the thing to do- and my blue lodge can do the mark man degree...
The AASR is looking at a restructure locally as I have premised but there are some ardent trinitarians who say that if it goes universal they are leaving- obviously better to see it die.
Still I (and the religiously ambiguous youth) would rater not be seen as a reason for the change.


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## bro.william (Sep 17, 2019)

I don't personally have a problem swearing an oath of belief in the Trinity — I had to do it before my bishop when I was ordained!   — but neither do I have a problem with sitting in any lodge or allied degree with those of other faiths or no heavily defined faith.  In fact, as a "professional Christian" (so to speak), one of the things I love about the non-sectarian nature of the craft lodge is that it's the one place in this city where I can take off my clericals, breathe easy, hang around a bunch of guys who share my values and interests, and just be plain old Brother Will instead of Father Will. 

I can see how the Christian symbolism that I gather is in some of these degrees might or might not jar for someone who isn't a Christian.  But I can't imagine I'd leave a masonic-related organisation just because they opened up.  The brotherhood of all men of good will towards God and each other is  the whole premise of the craft lodges that got us all started down this road.


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## CLewey44 (Sep 17, 2019)

David612 said:


> In my jurisdiction one must be a master mason for two years prior to being considered for membership in an appendant body, in time I hope to go through both the Royal Arch and the Scottish Rite however in your opinion brethren, where would you start?



With the "take it slows" all said, it depends what you're into as well. SRIA in England is a good way to go for that esoteric itch or the Hermetic Order of Martinists as well. They definitely go down the rabbit hole, not that HRA or SR doesn't. Several others as well.


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## Brother JC (Sep 17, 2019)

CLewey44 said:


> With the "take it slows" all said, it depends what you're into as well. SRIA in England is a good way to go for that esoteric itch or the Hermetic Order of Martinists as well. They definitely go down the rabbit hole, not that HRA or SR doesn't. Several others as well.



While I am a great fan of that particular rabbit hole, I believe SRIA is invitation only.


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## Elexir (Sep 17, 2019)

Brother JC said:


> While I am a great fan of that particular rabbit hole, I believe SRIA is invitation only.



SRICF ( Societas Rosicruciana in Civitatibus Foederatis wich is the American) is invitation only. You can write to SRIA (Societas Rosicruciana in Anglia) regarding membership.


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## David612 (Sep 18, 2019)

This info is great!
I’m still a year off being eligible for consideration and things going that way makes me think that perhaps it would be advantageous to wait until I have sat in the east?


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## Brother JC (Sep 18, 2019)

Elexir said:


> SRICF ( Societas Rosicruciana in Civitatibus Foederatis wich is the American) is invitation only. You can write to SRIA (Societas Rosicruciana in Anglia) regarding membership.



Thank you for the correction, Brother.


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## Scoops (Sep 18, 2019)

David612 said:


> This info is great!
> I’m still a year off being eligible for consideration and things going that way makes me think that perhaps it would be advantageous to wait until I have sat in the east?


Whilst I've joined Mark here, I'm waiting until I've gone through the Craft chair before joining Chapter. I'll probably wait until after I've been through the Mark chair before joining RAM. 

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## CLewey44 (Sep 18, 2019)

Scoops said:


> Whilst I've joined Mark here, I'm waiting until I've gone through the Craft chair before joining Chapter. I'll probably wait until after I've been through the Mark chair before joining RAM.
> 
> Sent from my EML-L09 using Tapatalk


Royal Ark Mariner? The U.S. includes that in AMD to the best of my knowledge.


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## Scoops (Sep 18, 2019)

CLewey44 said:


> Royal Ark Mariner? The U.S. includes that in AMD to the best of my knowledge.


Yup, Royal Ark Mariners. In England and Wales it's controlled by the Grand Lodge of Mark Master Masons. Every RAM Lodge is "moored" to a Mark lodge and bears the same name and number. For example, I'm a member of Ashlar Lodge of Mark Master Masons #1090 and Ashlar Lodge of Royal Ark Mariners #1090 is moored to us. 

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## Keith C (Sep 18, 2019)

CLewey44 said:


> Royal Ark Mariner? The U.S. includes that in AMD to the best of my knowledge.



Yes, this is true in the US.  As I was recently invited to join AMD this was one of the Degrees that was mentioned.  In the US it is a requirement to be a member of a Holy Royal Arch Chapter in order to be invited to join AMD.


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## CLewey44 (Sep 18, 2019)

Keith C said:


> Yes, this is true in the US.  As I was recently invited to join AMD this was one of the Degrees that was mentioned.  In the US it is a requirement to be a member of a Holy Royal Arch Chapter in order to be invited to join AMD.


That's the way I understood it myself. I'm receiving RA degree next week so maybe down the road I'll get the nod for AMD.


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## Keith C (Sep 19, 2019)

CLewey44 said:


> That's the way I understood it myself. I'm receiving RA degree next week so maybe down the road I'll get the nod for AMD.



It was a surprise for me that I was invited.

The PM that I have been working on the 3rd degree with nonchalantly told me as we were about to start our practice session; "Oh, by the way on Saturday I nominated you for membership in AMD and we unanimously approved you, you will be getting an invitation letter in the next week or so."  I suppose it is one of those things that just happens if enough members know you and think you would be a good fit and they have an opening.  I also have been told it is one of those thing that the surest way to not be invited is to ask!


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## David612 (Sep 19, 2019)

Keith C said:


> It was a surprise for me that I was invited.
> 
> The PM that I have been working on the 3rd degree with nonchalantly told me as we were about to start our practice session; "Oh, by the way on Saturday I nominated you for membership in AMD and we unanimously approved you, you will be getting an invitation letter in the next week or so."  I suppose it is one of those things that just happens if enough members know you and think you would be a good fit and they have an opening.  I also have been told it is one of those thing that the surest way to not be invited is to ask!


I don’t get it... why wouldn’t you want someone who’s keen?


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## Keith C (Sep 19, 2019)

David612 said:


> I don’t get it... why wouldn’t you want someone who’s keen?



It is like the 33rd Degree in AASR, it is considered an honor, just to a lesser degree (pun intended!)  The thought process is that you do not bestow an honor on someone who actively seeks an honor.


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## CLewey44 (Sep 19, 2019)

Keith C said:


> It was a surprise for me that I was invited.
> 
> The PM that I have been working on the 3rd degree with nonchalantly told me as we were about to start our practice session; "Oh, by the way on Saturday I nominated you for membership in AMD and we unanimously approved you, you will be getting an invitation letter in the next week or so."  I suppose it is one of those things that just happens if enough members know you and think you would be a good fit and they have an opening.  I also have been told it is one of those thing that the surest way to not be invited is to ask!


Oh nice, that's great they invited you. I've heard you should never ask to join AMD and other masonic bodies. I think showing an interest is not a bad thing and has worked in my favor. But that's different than saying "Hey I want to join XYZ, sign me up!"


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## bro.william (Sep 19, 2019)

Masonic etiquette can be a very nuanced thing ... and, as everyone around here will point out, it varies from jurisdiction to jurisdiction.  As someone fairly new to it all, my policy is to show interest in most of the things I come across, but also be careful to listen and learn, ask questions, and err on the conservative side of protocol.  I don't think anybody would mistake the fact that I'm game for all the new masonic experiences I can get; but I always try to ask stuff and express interest in ways that make clear I'm not wanting to step on toes or make unwarranted assumptions.


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## Warrior1256 (Sep 24, 2019)

CLewey44 said:


> I'm receiving RA degree next week so maybe down the road I'll get the nod for AMD.


Congratulations!


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## EVG Yumul (Dec 17, 2019)

Winter said:


> Is this what the Appendant Bodies look like in Australia?


 
Actually, it depends which State you're in.
I've attached the Masonic Orders charts for NSW & ACT, Victoria, and Queensland.

We're all upside-down anyway and all of our animals will actively kill you, so why bother visiting us?


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## Bloke (Dec 23, 2019)

EVG Yumul said:


> Actually, it depends which State you're in.
> I've attached the Masonic Orders charts for NSW & ACT, Victoria, and Queensland.
> 
> We're all upside-down anyway and all of our animals will actively kill you, so why bother visiting us?


How funny ... And I see the Victorian one was " authorized" by RWBro Terry Bates (Colonel Terrance Raymond “Terry” Bates ) .. not sure why he was cited as "Authorizing" it..  Commerce is still going - sadly Bro Terry is not, he passed in 2015. There are two errors I see for Victoria; August Order of Light is missing, as is AAONMS.


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## Bloke (Nov 4, 2020)

Someone liked something in here and I was re-reading.
Surprised I had not posted this
https://www.lodgedevotion.net/devot...ies/masonic-orders-worked-by-victorian-masons


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