# Introduction



## ess1113 (Jan 5, 2014)

Never really looked this deep into the site but wanted to speak on behalf of National Sojourners.

The Purposes of National Sojourners shall be to organize Commissioned Officers, Warrant Officers, Senior Non-Commissioned Officers of the uniformed services (past and present) of the United States, and Honorary Members, who are Master Masons, into Chapters, for the promotion of good fellowship among its members, for assisting such as may be overtaken by adversity or affliction, for cultivating Masonic ideals, for supporting all patriotic aims and activities in Masonry, for developing true Patriotism and Americanism throughout the Nation, for bringing together representatives of the uniformed forces of the United States (past and present) in a united effort to further the military need of National Defense, and for opposing any influence whatsoever calculated to weaken the National Security.

What will you get from membership:  A furthered sense of brother love and inclusion with brothers that share common membership in the armed forces.  

We spend time making patriotic presentations to local schools and civic organizations.  Sponsor essay contests around the themes of patriotism and national pride, and we sponsor youth leadership conferences around the nation.

We present awards to local senior and junior ROTC cadets and units in recognition of leadership abilities and achievement.  

I have personally gained great friends and loved every minute at ROTC and JROTC units meeting and recognizing cadets.  

I would encourage eligible brothers to look into a local chapters.  The national website has links to local chapters. 
Meetings are not  tiled so spouses and friends are welcome to attend also.  

Please feel free to contact me with questions.

http://www.nationalsojourners.org/index.php


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## MarkR (Jan 7, 2014)

Good timing on this thread, because I've recently been considering it.  I obtained the rank of Master Sergeant (E-8) in the Army Reserves.  My highest rank in the active Army was Sergeant E-5. I know the E-5 doesn't work, but does reserve rank?  And what proof is needed?  I never got a new DD214 when I left the reserves; the only one I have is the one from active duty.  I can probably come up with some other paperwork from the reserves that show the Master Sergeant rank.


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## ess1113 (Jan 7, 2014)

Brother Robbins, 
Reserve rank does indeed count.  There is no difference in the eyes of National Sojourners.  
An ID card, or any document that shows that you achieved E-7 or higher would suffice.  
Please do not hesitate to contact me if you have any other questions.

Eric


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## MarkR (Jan 8, 2014)

I found my promotion orders from E-7 to E-8, so I have that going for me.  Next I'll have to check out the local chapter.


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## ess1113 (Jan 8, 2014)

Minnesota?

*Minnesota #25
*(1st Mon)(Robert Morris Camp) 
Sec: 1LT Donald A. Wurden (Carole) 
623 Watersedge Terrace 
Mendota Heights, MN 55120-1931 
651-688-8150 


Pres: MR. Kenneth P. Hill 
10201 York Lane 
Bloomington, MN 55431-3254 
952-831-4723
Email: don@wurden.net


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## MarkR (Jan 9, 2014)

Thanks.  After finances settle down from Christmas and renewing all my Masonic memberships, I'll check further...lol!


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## CLewey44 (Nov 29, 2015)

Should be sewing on E-7 Dec 1st so I will look into this finally. Sounds very interesting.


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## Bloke (Nov 29, 2015)

ess1113 said:


> .... in a united effort to further the military need of National Defense, and for opposing any influence whatsoever calculated to weaken the National Security



I know next to nothing about this group but i read the above quote and it sounds political... can anyone help me out and explain further ?

(Also congrats on promotion  )


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## Glen Cook (Nov 29, 2015)

http://www.nationalsojourners.org


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## ess1113 (Nov 29, 2015)

Bloke said:


> I know next to nothing about this group but i read the above quote and it sounds political... can anyone help me out and explain further ?
> 
> (Also congrats on promotion  )


I see absolutely nothing political about the purpose statement, however I encourage you to look at the national website and explore it further. If it turns out something that you don't subscribe to them please do not seek membership. This Masonic organization has been active throughout the US and various overseas posts for years and have always upheld the principles of Freemasonry. The fact that we subscribe to a strong national defense doesn't make it political, it makes it patriotic. 
Thank you for your valuable question.


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## Glen Cook (Nov 29, 2015)

Bloke said:


> I know next to nothing about this group but i read the above quote and it sounds political... can anyone help me out and explain further ?
> 
> (Also congrats on promotion  )


Well, I don't disagree with you. However, this is not lodge.  I am unaware of any prohibition on side orders engaging in such purposes.  

There is a nationalistic bent in US Freemasonry.  At one time, GL CA forbade members of the Communist Party.  The AASR SJ has a committee specifically devoted to "Americanism."  See e.g., https://alexandriascottishrite.org/committee/education-and-americanism

Many GLs have the Pledge of Allegiance to the US flag in the opening of lodge.  

I do note that at the close of lodge or at the festive board, it is common for UGLE lodges to sing God Save the Queen.


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## ess1113 (Nov 29, 2015)

Bro Cook
Well said. Much better than I could compose.

Eric


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## Bloke (Nov 29, 2015)

Thanks. Victorian Lodges (Australia) also sing God Save the Queen - as our head of state..

Thank you for your responses.


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## Warrior1256 (Dec 20, 2015)

Great info! I may look into joining.


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## Warrior1256 (Dec 20, 2015)

Glen Cook said:


> Many GLs have the Pledge of Allegiance to the US flag in the opening of lodge.


This is done at all lodges in Kentucky.


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## Randy81 (Feb 14, 2016)

I went to a meeting for the National Sojourners in Alexandria, LA a couple of weeks ago. It was basically dinner and the meeting at the same time. It was a good group of guys and they do some good stuff around the state. I was probably the youngest guy by around 25-30 years and I'm 34! Lol! I enjoyed the fellowship there and will likely join the organization.


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## L.E.Avery (Mar 30, 2016)

Correct me if I am wrong but were we not subject to being judged fit to join the Masons when we petitioned the lodge?  With that being said I feel that we were judged on a level and we are to be on the square.  So how can the National Sojourners limit the membership to E-7 and above and be associated with Masons? 
I understand that there are rules but it seems that if they were open to all ranks that would be more square in their dealings.  I have served and will never see E-7 because of Medical Issues from my deployments, but because of the E-7 or above rule I can not join. 
I know that there are other Brothers that served in the Military that might like to join but can not due to the fact that they maybe did one enlistment and got out, or they were medically retired, or they received wounds in combat that made them unfit before they attained the rank of E-7.  Does that make them not worthy of being a National Sojourners?  It should not.
So it is with a heavy heart that I will not promote the National Sojourners until they open their organization to lower enlisted Masons.


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## Ripcord22A (Mar 30, 2016)

L.E.Avery said:


> Correct me if I am wrong but were we not subject to being judged fit to join the Masons when we petitioned the lodge?  With that being said I feel that we were judged on a level and we are to be on the square.  So how can the National Sojourners limit the membership to E-7 and above and be associated with Masons?
> I understand that there are rules but it seems that if they were open to all ranks that would be more square in their dealings.  I have served and will never see E-7 because of Medical Issues from my deployments, but because of the E-7 or above rule I can not join.
> I know that there are other Brothers that served in the Military that might like to join but can not due to the fact that they maybe did one enlistment and got out, or they were medically retired, or they received wounds in combat that made them unfit before they attained the rank of E-7.  Does that make them not worthy of being a National Sojourners?  It should not.
> So it is with a heavy heart that I will not promote the National Sojourners until they open their organization to lower enlisted Masons.


 
Bro do you want us to open Blue Lodge to Women too?  this isnt everybody gets a trophy.  Im a SSG(E-6) when/if i make 7 will join this organization.  Think about it man, are you an NCO?  if not then this wont apply but as an NCO I dont want a bunch of PVTs sitting around me.  This Organization is the same thing.  most people who get out at e5 and below did so because they were disgruntled or got kicked out.  by making it a group that is open to Senior enlisted and above only it makes sure that only people who are proud of their service and have experience are able to join.  Honestly i think it should be E7-E9 and then 03-O10 only.  LTs shouldnt be able to join for the same reason SGTs and SSGs cant.


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## L.E.Avery (Mar 30, 2016)

So are you saying that I am not proud of my service?  I am very proud of my service.  I am still an MP.  I will get out as an E-6.  I have ran the Admin, Supply, and Training for a Unit.  I have the Purple Heart.  Multiple Deployments and because I will not make E-7 I can not join?  It goes against being on the level.


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## L.E.Avery (Mar 30, 2016)

I have better things to worry about than being able to join the National Sojourners.  I was just asking.  I feel that they go against what we are taught as Masons.  We look to the heart of a man.  Not what rank he is wearing.


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## Ripcord22A (Mar 30, 2016)

L.E.Avery said:


> So are you saying that I am not proud of my service?  I am very proud of my service.  I am still an MP.  I will get out as an E-6.  I have ran the Admin, Supply, and Training for a Unit.  I have the Purple Heart.  Multiple Deployments and because I will not make E-7 I can not join?  It goes against being on the level.


 I am not saying that about you at all.  But you have to admit that the majority of people who dont make it to 7 and get out are disgruntled, its just away to make sure that the organisation doesnt have a bunch of people who didnt make it through BT but have a 214 so they can join.  I meant no offense.  There are so many groups with in Masonry that "discriminate"  Look at the KT you must profess to be (or to protect- depending on the commandery) the christian faith.  look at all of the invitation only appendant bodies.


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## Ripcord22A (Mar 30, 2016)

L.E.Avery said:


> I am still an MP.  I will get out as an E-6.


 
Are you positive that you wont make 7 on this board that is coming up?  Also I was an MP beofre becoming a Recruiter.  I was in Germany with the 527th MP CO and at Mother Bragg with the 65th MP CO (ABN).  what about you man?

BTW thanks for your sacrafice!  Hopefully that PH isnt soemthing crazy that you have to deal with for the rest of your life


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## L.E.Avery (Mar 30, 2016)

I know I wont get the E-7.  Pissed off the right person this time.  lol.  It is all good.  The PH was for a road side IED 03-04 Baghdad.  Nothing staying away from an MRI can not fix.  

I totally get the requirements I am just saying that maybe they could vet a lower enlisted to join their ranks.  Through 214's and such.  To keep out the Basic Training ranger.


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## L.E.Avery (Mar 30, 2016)

Started out in the MOARNG went AD AF for 8years.  Got out because they would not let me reclass.  Took a 10 year break and got talked into joining the MOARNG to finish out my 20.  I have been with the 1139th MP Co. deployed with them to Iraq attached to the 82nd AB.  Then moved to the 3175th MP Co.  Then took the Admin for the 3175th MP Co.  Moved to the 1140th MP Co. to be the Training NCO for them.  Now I am with the 2175th MP Co.  Fun times.  I have applied for recruiting but never accepted for the position.  So I will just continue to do what I do which is deal with order, JPAS, DTS, DTMS, AFCOS, ATRRS and a whole slew of other abbreviated programs.


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## Ripcord22A (Mar 30, 2016)

L.E.Avery said:


> Started out in the MOARNG went AD AF for 8years.  Got out because they would not let me reclass.  Took a 10 year break and got talked into joining the MOARNG to finish out my 20.  I have been with the 1139th MP Co. deployed with them to Iraq attached to the 82nd AB.  Then moved to the 3175th MP Co.  Then took the Admin for the 3175th MP Co.  Moved to the 1140th MP Co. to be the Training NCO for them.  Now I am with the 2175th MP Co.  Fun times.  I have applied for recruiting but never accepted for the position.  So I will just continue to do what I do which is deal with order, JPAS, DTS, DTMS, AFCOS, ATRRS and a whole slew of other abbreviated programs.


 ah ok..now your comment about pissing off the right person makes more sense.  NG...


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## L.E.Avery (Mar 30, 2016)

NG but still a go getter.  The NG just worked out better for me to serve.


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## CLewey44 (Mar 30, 2016)

L.E.Avery said:


> So are you saying that I am not proud of my service?  I am very proud of my service.  I am still an MP.  I will get out as an E-6.  I have ran the Admin, Supply, and Training for a Unit.  I have the Purple Heart.  Multiple Deployments and because I will not make E-7 I can not join?  It goes against being on the level.



You could maybe make the same argument for York Rite having a Christian requirement. Honestly, when I was an E-6, I was told I could probably join with no problem. They make exceptions and I'd imagine their membership is sort of dwindling. You could always enquire about it. E-6s to me are for the most part running their sections and should be treated as such maybe but rules are rules as with YR. To be a Shriner back in the day, you had to be a 32d degree SR member. So there has always been some restrictions on appendant bodies vs. Blue Lodge.


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## Ripcord22A (Mar 30, 2016)

L.E.Avery said:


> NG but still a go getter.  The NG just worked out better for me to serve.


I just meant your comment about pissing off the right person made more sense.  Cause the NG boards are handled differently than AC boards


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## L.E.Avery (Mar 30, 2016)

The NG Boards are a joke.  Plus the Person that I pissed off was sitting on the board.  Lucky me.  lol


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## L.E.Avery (Mar 30, 2016)

CLewey44 I do agree with what you have said.  Right now I am just looking forward to studying and doing all I can for my Lodge maybe later I will seriously look at trying to venture further out on my Masonic travels.


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## Glen Cook (Mar 30, 2016)

National Sojourners was once limited to Officers.  We went through the same discussion during that change.  I suspect the organization will eventually be opened up to all ranks, as fewer Officers (well, fewer anyone) now join Freemasonry.  

We have any number of bodies for which the prerequisite is that of Master Mason, but which have additional requirements.  Sometimes those requirements are simply "I like you."  At least Sojourners has a transparent requirement.


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## Bloke (Mar 30, 2016)

L.E.Avery said:


> ..... they could vet a lower enlisted to join their ranks.  Through 214's and such.  To keep out the Basic Training ranger.



We're freemasons and part of that is mutual respect and growth but bro, your comment made me laugh. You start with complaint against the Sojourners for not letting in all military personnel, then propose keep other military personnel out.

Its a special interest group for officers but will likely keep dropping the rank requires to join. As others have said, there is all sorts of prerequisites for joining certain masonic group, including personal core (non-masonic) beliefs such being a Trinitarian Christian.


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## Ripcord22A (Mar 30, 2016)

Bloke said:


> We're freemasons and part of that is mutual respect and growth but bro, your comment made me laugh. You start with complaint against the Sojourners for not letting in all military personnel, then propose keep other military personnel out.
> 
> Its a special interest group for officers but will likely keep dropping the rank requires to join. As others have said, there is all sorts of prerequisites for joining certain masonic group, including personal core (non-masonic) beliefs such being a Trinitarian Christian.


 
Hes not propsing keeping other military people out.  there is a huge number of people in America that claim to have served and have paperwork to back that up.  However they never made it past Basic or were kicked out shortly after getting to their first unit for failure to adapt to military life or for a slew of other reasons that amount to that person being to weak to serve their country after swearing to.  To the general public these people served.  To those of us that have actually served they are worse then those people who never served but say crap like " I almost joined" or "I couldt serve cause if a Drill Sgt yelled at me Id yell right back at him"


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## Bloke (Mar 30, 2016)

Thanks for the clarification


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## Glen Cook (Mar 30, 2016)

Bloke said:


> ?..
> 
> Its a special interest group for officers but will likely keep dropping the rank requires to join. .../QUOTE]



The requirement to be an officer was dropped sometime ago


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## Brother JC (Mar 31, 2016)

CLewey44 said:


> You could maybe make the same argument for York Rite having a Christian requirement.


The York "Rite" doesn't have a Christian requirement, the Chivalric Orders do.


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## dfreybur (Mar 31, 2016)

If you want to be in a unit that will take any Brother who is an Honorably Discharged veteran, check to see if your local Shrine has a military unit.  Many do.

If you want to be in an organization that takes veterans, look at the Amvets, American Legion, Veterans of Foreign Wars.  They each have their own specific rules as to who qualifies and who does not.


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## CLewey44 (Mar 31, 2016)

Brother JC said:


> The York "Rite" doesn't have a Christian requirement, the Chivalric Orders do.



I'm not a member of the YR but I've been told that by several members and going by the petition says. 

From what I understand to receive the last few degrees you must be a Christian or at least favor that religion. I don't think I'm too far off base here. Not so much to merit correction I wouldn't think.


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## ess1113 (Mar 31, 2016)

L.E.Avery said:


> Correct me if I am wrong but were we not subject to being judged fit to join the Masons when we petitioned the lodge?  With that being said I feel that we were judged on a level and we are to be on the square.  So how can the National Sojourners limit the membership to E-7 and above and be associated with Masons?
> I understand that there are rules but it seems that if they were open to all ranks that would be more square in their dealings.  I have served and will never see E-7 because of Medical Issues from my deployments, but because of the E-7 or above rule I can not join.
> I know that there are other Brothers that served in the Military that might like to join but can not due to the fact that they maybe did one enlistment and got out, or they were medically retired, or they received wounds in combat that made them unfit before they attained the rank of E-7.  Does that make them not worthy of being a National Sojourners?  It should not.
> So it is with a heavy heart that I will not promote the National Sojourners until they open their organization to lower enlisted Masons.



The Shrine has the Legion of Honor and there are National Sojourners throughout the world.  Both predicate their membership on honorable service in the armed forces.
Technically, anyone of any rank can join National Sojourners but that makes you an honorary member.  
I have difficulty finding fault in any Masonic organization that predicates their membership off of patriotism and national pride regardless of their membership qualifications.  
While I am disappointed in your attitude towards National Sojourners, perhaps we can both survive you not counting yourself as a member.


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## CLewey44 (Mar 31, 2016)

Damn....


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## Glen Cook (Mar 31, 2016)

Well, I guess I just moved down in the grouchy rankings


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## Brother JC (Apr 1, 2016)

CLewey44 said:


> I'm not a member of the YR but I've been told that by several members and going by the petition says.
> 
> From what I understand to receive the last few degrees you must be a Christian or at least favor that religion. I don't think I'm too far off base here. *Not so much to merit correction I wouldn't think.*


 I disagree...
There are three separate bodies within the York path; Chapter, Council, and Commandery. Only Commandery has religious requirements. I know a number of Brethren who are quite active in Chapter and Council who aren't members of Commandery due to their beliefs. I also know Brothers who could be in Commandery but aren't. Frankly, they can't stand the uniforms.
Don't let the Commandery requirement keep you from pursuing your Mark or the Royal Arch.


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## CLewey44 (Apr 1, 2016)

Brother JC said:


> I disagree...
> There are three separate bodies within the York path; Chapter, Council, and Commandery. Only Commandery has religious requirements. I know a number of Brethren who are quite active in Chapter and Council who aren't members of Commandery due to their beliefs. I also know Brothers who could be in Commandery but aren't. Frankly, they can't stand the uniforms.
> Don't let the Commandery requirement keep you from pursuing your Mark or the Royal Arch.



I fully plan to. I'm not denying Christianity but my original point on the thread was that some appendant bodies have requirements, ie. Sojourners requiring E7 and up. YR requiring Christian belief, at least to receive Commandery title. Not knocking YR and would love to petition when I can later this year.


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## L.E.Avery (Apr 1, 2016)

Brother ess1113 I was merely posing a question to the members.  I was not trying to be rude just trying to gain some light on the Organization. 


ess1113 said:


> While I am disappointed in your attitude towards National Sojourners, perhaps we can both survive you not counting yourself as a member.


It was an honest question and was not ment to be filled with attitude. 
I am sorry if you took it in that form.


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