# California Freemason Applicant: Disclose Expunged Criminal Cases ?



## Tiger Keys (Feb 4, 2017)

Do criminal cases that have been Expunged count as not having pled guilty ?

If you saw an applicant with two cases (misdemeanor petty theft and felony possession of controlled substance) from 4 years ago but were both expunged, if they showed good character would you White Ball that person ?


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## Brother JC (Feb 4, 2017)

Odds are that if it were an issue you wouldn't make it to a vote. If it weren't an issue the voters would probably never know.


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## Bloke (Feb 4, 2017)

I don't know exactly what expunged means in your legal system, but not its not a pardon nor not guilty.

My expectation would be disclosure and explanation via letter which pleads your case. Four years ago is not long , even noting you're 25. The Constituion and relationship with the proposer would be important as would be your current conduct.

Don't lie is the Golden Rule.

Don't submit an application likely to be blackmailed, better to wait and put some distance between you and your convictions also establishing your good conduct, a petty theft at 21 does not worry me as much as the drug offence with type and amount and intent being of interest to me. If you had a kilo of cocaine, I would not bother applying for the next 6 years...

It will vary from place to place and lodge to lodge.


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## Ripcord22A (Feb 5, 2017)

If u had a kilo of cocaine dont bother applying at all

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## dfreybur (Feb 6, 2017)

According to the constitution and regulations of GLofCA as long as the conviction is listed on the petition the candidate is allowed to progress through the process.  That still leaves the investigation committee and the ballot box.

If the committee gives a negative or mixed recommendation then the process does not continue and we don't reach the situation of your question.

I will note that the rules are about felony convictions not about misdemeanor convictions.  You really are only asking about that one felony conviction and you happen to be offering more history for the purpose of context.  Context does matter.  The California legal machine is fast to accept plea deals that avoid putting a second strike on a person's record because of the three strike principle there.  Then again the California legal machine is fast to enter a felony charge on a third strike when presented with a person who already has two strikes.  As a sort of balance.

California is very fussy about the landmark that ballot secrecy is sacrosanct.  As such I decline to suggest how I would likely vote. The context of the second conviction would weigh heavily upon me even though it is not a felony.


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## Glen Cook (Feb 6, 2017)

dfreybur said:


> According to the constitution and regulations of GLofCA as long as the conviction is listed on the petition the candidate is allowed to progress through the process.  That still leaves the investigation committee and the ballot box.
> 
> If the committee gives a negative or mixed recommendation then the process does not continue and we don't reach the situation of your question.
> 
> ...


Is an expungement counted as a conviction under the CA GL code?


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## goomba (Feb 6, 2017)

I would say the firm answer, as is the case in most questions like this, is "it depends".  There are facts and circumstances surrounding the incidents you mention that I would need to make a definitive answer.  Also information regarding how the person has grown in the years that followed. 

But one sure rule is be honest.  Any information withheld is surely to not go well.

Grand lodges generally have rules that cover certain things.  But even with that the lodges have their own "way" to working within the general rules.  The best bet is to ask the lodge your interested and be very specific.  Or most grand lodges have staff that work M-F and I'm sure at least one of them is a mason with some knowledge on the grand lodges policy.


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## dfreybur (Feb 7, 2017)

Glen Cook said:


> Is an expungement counted as a conviction under the CA GL code?



The code is silent on the matter of expungement.

In order to have an expungement happen, there needed to be a conviction, guilty plea, no contest plea or other felony outcome.  The expungement removes the case from legal status but does not remove the felony from having happened.


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## Glen Cook (Feb 7, 2017)

dfreybur said:


> The code is silent on the matter of expungement.
> 
> In order to have an expungement happen, there needed to be a conviction, guilty plea, no contest plea or other felony outcome.  The expungement removes the case from legal status but does not remove the felony from having happened.


Thanks. Under CA civil law, the case is treated as dismissed. There are even limitations under CA labour laws as to what questions may be asked in that context. Would the status as a dismissed case make a difference under CA Masonic law?


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## dfreybur (Feb 7, 2017)

Glen Cook said:


> Thanks. Under CA civil law, the case is treated as dismissed. There are even limitations under CA labour laws as to what questions may be asked in that context. Would the status as a dismissed case make a difference under CA Masonic law?



Sorry, out of my depth at this point.  My depth was reached at the point where the CA code is silent on the topic of expungement.  That would be a Grand Masters Decision or Grand Masters Recommendation and that fact that the code is silent on the topic says the topic has not yet been addressed.  I will add - As of two years ago which is the most recent time I downloaded the PDF.


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## Brother JC (Feb 8, 2017)

From the 2016 (most recent version) CMC:
"No person shall hold or be eligible for membership in any Constituent Lodge who has pleaded guilty or nolo contendere to, or has been convicted of, a crime involving a violation of the moral law unless, for the reason that he did not commit the offense, he either has been pardoned or had his judgment of conviction vacated or reversed."


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## Glen Cook (Feb 8, 2017)

Brother JC said:


> From the 2016 (most recent version) CMC:
> "No person shall hold or be eligible for membership in any Constituent Lodge who has pleaded guilty or nolo contendere to, or has been convicted of, a crime involving a violation of the moral law unless, for the reason that he did not commit the offense, he either has been pardoned or had his judgment of conviction vacated or reversed."


That would seem to,rule out expungement, and use the standard of actual innocence. Thanks


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## Brother JC (Feb 8, 2017)

There are several more paragraphs following that (that I'll gladly forward you if you'd like), but this is the base premise.


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## acjohnson53 (Jan 12, 2018)

if needed we have a Judge, that's a P.M., 33rd...


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## Glen Cook (Jan 12, 2018)

acjohnson53 said:


> if needed we have a Judge, that's a P.M., 33rd...


It’s GL of CA, rather than PHA.


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## Dontrell Stroman (Jan 13, 2018)

acjohnson53 said:


> if needed we have a Judge, that's a P.M., 33rd...


What is your fascination with the 33rd ?

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## acjohnson53 (Jan 13, 2018)

I've reached the top.....


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## Glen Cook (Jan 13, 2018)

33 is the top?  I shouldn’t think so. SGIG and SGC are on the top of that Rite. Even a 33 is subject to a GM.


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## Warrior1256 (Jan 14, 2018)

Bloke said:


> Don't lie is the Golden Rule.





goomba said:


> But one sure rule is be honest. Any information withheld is surely to not go well.


Very true!


Glen Cook said:


> 33 is the top? I shouldn’t think so. SGIG and SGC are on the top of that Rite. Even a 33 is subject to a GM.


Yep.


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## fmasonlog (Jan 14, 2018)

Freemasons judge you as what you are today in present tense. Be honest and show if you’ve improved or show what your character is today. 


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## Warrior1256 (Jan 15, 2018)

Bottom line.....give it a try and apply, be honest, and see what happens.


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