# Solicitation of funds from Grand Lodge of Texas AF & AM



## Blake Bowden (Jun 7, 2013)

So today I was going through all my mail and suddenly I noticed a letter from the Grand Lodge of Texas. Typically I throw their letters away because 9 out of 10 times it's soliciting money, yet for some odd reason I opened it. Low and behold, please send money. Many of you know my views on the Grand Lodge facility, but for those of you who don't, I suggest we sell it.

Back to the letter, it was a guilt trip letter how honorable Masons built it, the first meeting was in the 1940's and that we need to carry on the burden, I mean tradition, of keeping it up. The funds available for maintenance are currently in the range of $3,000.000.00 but they need $15,000,000.00 to modernize the facility. My jaw dropped. First of all, if we don't have the money to maintain the facility NOW, how are we after blowing $15 mill to modernize it? It would take every member of the GLoTX AF & AM to donate $166.66 to reach that goal, and that's being generous on membership statistics.

In the 1940s, there were twice as many Freemasons as there are now and we've continued to loose thousands per year, mostly due to age. We're not in the golden age of freemasonry anymore where we can afford such a lavish facility. Why not build an administrative building and museum? For $15 million, you could easily do that. Annual Grand Lodge Communications could be held at different facilities each year. 

Hey Grand Lodge, want to spend some cash? Spend it on education and lets get back to what made Masonry so successful. Having that money pit in Waco is only going to burden Brethren, at least for the foreseeable future.

/end rant


----------



## Bill Lins (Jun 7, 2013)

Blake Bowden said:


> Why not build an administrative building and museum? For $15 million, you could easily do that.


Better yet, build or buy a multi-story office building with a parking facility and rent everything except for the floor needed for our offices & museum. That way, the building could support itself and maybe even turn a profit. And put it in Austin, NOT Waco!


----------



## JJones (Jun 8, 2013)

I knew what to expect as soon as I got the letter.  Once I confirmed they just wanted more money I tossed it in the trash.

My mother lodge has enough financial problems, as do other local lodges around me.  If I'm going to donate any extra money it'll be local first.  The GL is an impressive building but keeping it just so the GM can have his palace doesn't seem financially responsible.

Has anyone ever looked at pictures of other GLs?  Some of them are rather quaint compared to ours.


----------



## Blake Bowden (Jun 8, 2013)

I wish this site had a 10000000000x "Thanks" button! Well said! Pride shouldn't make our beloved Fraternity bankrupt. The purpose of Freemasonry was never to build lavish buildings, but to make good men better. That's a fact. Our Local Lodges are teetering on the brink of demise and with that, our appendant bodies; it's a ripple effect. If our Grand Lodge is healthy, our appendant bodies will be as well, yet under our current policies, everyone is suffering.


----------



## masonicknight (Jun 8, 2013)

Just an insight of California's GL. It is located on Nob Hill in San Francisco. One of the most expensive places to be. The tax rates for tourists and other visitors is enormous compared to the rest of the state. Yet the GL refuses to move to a more centralized area that is less expensive. 

It seems that a good portion of the problem is related to who actually owns the building and why it cannot be sold. The Masonic Homes of California apparently has a big chunk of ownership and controls that well. But the GL is stuck with the bills and maintenance of the building and of course paying the various people who work there. 

They also feel that to move away from this location would somehow lesson the "experience" one has when the Annual Communications take place. 

The local lodge literally around the corner from me has lost membership for years. It finally combined with another a few miles away. It had a high appraisal but has finally ended up being sold for less than half that amount. The city fouled up one sale and the GL then required a re-submission of all documents from the previous sale in order to approve the current sale of the same property. We all asked the question as to what happened to all the documents on file already. No real answer. Feels like the government more and more with them.

We get the same letters, and like you many of us utilize the round file regularly.


----------



## bupton52 (Jun 8, 2013)

I bet if two GLs met in that building you could find the funds needed to renovate and modernize it............


S&F
Bro. Byron Upton


----------



## widows son (Jun 8, 2013)

*Solicitation of funds from Grand Lodge of Texas AF &amp; AM*

"I bet if two GLs met in that building you could find the funds needed to renovate and modernize it............"

•  Well stated brother.


----------



## BryanMaloney (Jun 8, 2013)

Mausoleums are always expensive.


----------



## Robert G (Jun 8, 2013)

We are having the same issue in Florida. We have a GL building in Jacksonville (of all places!) which has been a money-pit for years. The GL proposed raising the per-capita to pay for maintenance. This was voted down at the GL Communication in May. I'm trying to find out what, if anything, is going to be done about the building. We have a very beautiful masonic home campus in St Petersburg where I think the GL should move to. It would make a lot of sense. Parts of the Jacksonville building are disused because of many years of neglect. It's seems rather odd to me how these GLs are clinging to these buildings which we can no longer afford to carry.


----------



## BryanMaloney (Jun 8, 2013)

At least Waco is still the major city closest to the Texas center of population (although not for much longer, if the trend continues).


----------



## dfreybur (Jun 8, 2013)

The California GL building is at least rented out as a conference center.  It turned a profit for a lot of years.  Note to any lodge planning on buying a building - It may cost more to get a property that turns a profit but that property will be a blessing for a very long time.  A lodge in one of my districts meets upstairs from a strip mall.  They do great as the renters pay for maintenance.

Illinois has always voted against buying a GL building.  This thread is why.

Sharing office - You mean like Washington state.  An example my brothers worthy of all emulation.


----------



## BryanMaloney (Jun 9, 2013)

I met a traveller from an antique land
Who said: "Two vast and trunkless legs of stone
Stand in the desert. Near them on the sand,
Half sunk, a shattered visage lies, whose frown
And wrinkled lip and sneer of cold command
Tell that its sculptor well those passions read
Which yet survive, stamped on these lifeless things,
The hand that mocked them and the heart that fed.
And on the pedestal these words appear:
`My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings:
Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair!'
Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare,
The lone and level sands stretch far away".
--Shelley


----------



## jwhoff (Jun 9, 2013)

I'd like to hear something from one of our Colorado brothers on their Grand Lodge situation.  If I'm not terribly mistaken the Grand Lodge there was not long ago in Golden.  A year or two ago I was much surprised to see that it is now in Colorado Springs.

Is this correct? And, if so, what caused the location shift?

p.s.
I, too, believe those "pillars half buried in the sand" of which Brother Maloney refers, were also called the pillars of Enoch at one time in antiquity.  And that they may have been fashioned by one of his offspring, Jabael.  

Anyone, please free to correct me on this to get the records straight.


I love this website.


----------



## Roy Vance (Jun 9, 2013)

BryanMaloney said:


> Mausoleums are always expensive.



It gets used about as often!


----------



## JFS61 (Jun 9, 2013)

The problem I see with this thread is that everyone assumes that the members will still cough up 15 million dollars even if we go ahead and jettison the building. In reality that won't happen, and in the end we'll end up no better off than before, except that we will now meet in a local No-Tell motel instead of a worthy edifice. We became Masons not because it was easy or without struggle, and to turn our backs on the legacy our forefathers entrusted us with because it has become "inconvenient" is an idea I find troublesome.


----------



## dfreybur (Jun 10, 2013)

I like the version of Ozymandias Revisited that has the ruins turned into a tourist trap offering postcards of your visit.  Even more ignominious.

The lesson of the second degree lecture definitely applies.  Too bad the part about this has been moved to the long form in the monitor that is rarely given during degrees.  Masonry has survived a lot worse than a crumbling building.


----------



## chrmc (Jun 10, 2013)

I think what a lot of us wants, both in Texas and elsewhere, is the Grand Lodge actually start talking about some of the problems we have and issues we see out there in the local lodges. Joint affiliation with PHA, economy on local and grand lodge levels, Traditional Observance etc. are all things we talk a lot about, but most of us haven't heard any GL officers address these issues. 
They may be talked about behind the scenes, but not out in the open. 

The various GLs have to remember that they that exist solely to serve the local lodges. If you as a "governing body" lose connection with your rank and file membership it often does not end well.


----------



## crono782 (Jun 10, 2013)

I'm willing to open my closed wallet if they are willing to open their closed minds...


Freemason Connect Mobile


----------



## JJones (Jun 10, 2013)

> The problem I see with this thread is that everyone assumes that the members will still cough up 15 million dollars even if we go ahead and jettison the building.



Why would we need to continue to raise 15mil to refurbish a building we sold?



> In reality that won't happen, and in the end we'll end up no better off than before, except that we will now meet in a local No-Tell motel instead of a worthy edifice. .



I think that's a bit pessimistic, don't you?  With the money we made off selling the old place we could probably have a nice place built.  It'd be smaller, yes, but the GL doesn't need to rival the capital building, does it?



> We became Masons not because it was easy or without struggle, and to turn our backs on the legacy our forefathers entrusted us with because it has become "inconvenient" is an idea I find troublesome



We aren't turning our backs on anything, the masonic legacy is still there.  By not making financially prudent decisions about our GL building now, however, we are creating a legacy for the next generations of masons...time will tell what kind of legacy that will be.


----------



## rpbrown (Jun 12, 2013)

Sell the current building, take the money from the sale plus the 3m in the fund now and buy or build another, more modern building. The GLoT is like a figure head, often seen but seldom used. It's not like the MWGM and his officers are there daily, they are too busy traveling the state.
In fact, if you want to save money, curb their travels somewhat.


----------



## Bro. Stewart P.M. (Jun 12, 2013)

rpbrown said:


> Sell the current building, take the money from the sale plus the 3m in the fund now and buy or build another, more modern building. The GLoT is like a figure head, often seen but seldom used. It's not like the MWGM and his officers are there daily, they are too busy traveling the state.
> In fact, if you want to save money, curb their travels somewhat.



I am under the impression that the Officers travel costs are paid by themselves, not by the Grand Lodge. At least in Texas anyhow.


----------



## Bill Lins (Jun 13, 2013)

Oh, my dear Bro. Stewart- we _need_​ to talk.  :wink:


----------



## cog41 (Jun 14, 2013)

*Solicitation of funds from Grand Lodge of Texas AF &amp; AM*

Sell it and relocate.


----------



## jaanthony (Jun 15, 2013)

This question was brought up at our stated meeting "why so much,  I'm willing to donate but I want to know what it's being spent on."  The answer I gave was bringing the building up to code.  It is not my belief that the building be sold or that we relocate. 

Freemason Connect Mobile


----------



## Blake Bowden (Jun 15, 2013)

crono782 said:


> I'm willing to open my closed wallet if they are willing to open their closed minds...
> 
> 
> Freemason Connect Mobile



Bingo!


----------



## OKGRSEC (Jun 15, 2013)

*Solicitation of funds from Grand Lodge of Texas AF &amp; AM*

Ah, the old "Grand Lodge isn't worth it" argument...again. Universal across every state.  The majority of our members don't want to spend more than $20 a year for dues, bitch about electronic vs hard copy newsletters & don't want to spend a dime for building maintenance (including their own lodges).  

If you think you can run a Grand Lodge staff and Grand session out of a strip mall, go spend a little time sitting with Gr Sec & staff.  Sit down & ask questions before coming to any conclusions. While expensive (and getting more so each year) they are the most substantial symbol of our fraternity, and in many cases, historic treasures.  Normally we could get federal aid to keep them up, but there are always strings attached.

The longest tradition of Masonry isn't ritual: it's complaining about Grand lodge.  Freemasonry is a democracy ;  if you don't like it, put in a resolution to get it changed.  And be graceful enough to accept the results.


----------



## Mike Martin (Jun 17, 2013)

Here in England, we realised that our Freemasons' Hall (London) needed to be as self supporting as possible, which is why if any of you have ever watched:
 the UK TV programmes: Spooks, Poirot and Foyle's War, the Films, Green Zone (Matt Damon), Hitchhikers' Guide to the Galaxy (John Malkovitch), Johhny English (Rowan Atkinson), Sherlock Holmes (Robert Downey Jnr) you have not only seen the front door countless times but much of the interior corridors and Grand Temple.

Each year London Fashion Week and many media events are hosted in our building, in fact Freemasons' Hall London is one of the most sought out film locations in London


----------



## dfreybur (Jun 17, 2013)

Mike Martin said:


> Here in England, we realised that our Freemasons' Hall (London) needed to be as self supporting as possible, which is why if any of you have ever watched:
> the UK TV programmes: Spooks, Poirot and Foyle's War, the Films, Green Zone (Matt Damon), Hitchhikers' Guide to the Galaxy (John Malkovitch), Johhny English (Rowan Atkinson), Sherlock Holmes (Robert Downey Jnr) you have not only seen the front door countless times but much of the interior corridors and Grand Temple.
> 
> Each year London Fashion Week and many media events are hosted in our building, in fact Freemasons' Hall London is one of the most sought out film locations in London



This applies to lodges as well as grand lodges.  My mother lodges rents to the TV industry (Unsolved Mysteries, JAG when I was a local) plus to weddings and all sorts of societies.  The building pays for itself.  A lodge in the district owns a strip mall with the lodge on the second floor.  That building also pays for itself.  In comparison I've seen smaller buildings take down at least two lodges.  One couldn't maintain their building so they merged with my mother lodge and we sold the building to a church.  I'm also a member of a lodge that went the other way.  We couldn't afford to maintain our building so we sold it to a bank, became a tenant and eventually merged with our landlord lodge.  Sure enough lodges that have buildings that turn a positive cash flow are lodges that flourish in the long term.

The California GL building covers most of its expenses and for many years rented at a net profit.

Magnificent or not a building is going to run at a profit or at a loss.  The ones that run at a loss eventually become albatrosses on their lodges.  It might happen in a few years or it might happen in a few decades.  As a life member (called endowed member in Texas) I'll still be on the books long after I'm dead and that helps me have a long term perspective. Buildings that turn a profit are much more expensive to build or acquire but can we afford any building that will eventually become an albatross?


----------



## JFS61 (Jun 17, 2013)

*Re: Solicitation of funds from Grand Lodge of Texas AF &amp; AM*



OKGRSEC said:


> Ah, the old "Grand Lodge isn't worth it" argument...again. Universal across every state.  The majority of our members don't want to spend more than $20 a year for dues, bitch about electronic vs hard copy newsletters & don't want to spend a dime for building maintenance (including their own lodges).
> 
> If you think you can run a Grand Lodge staff and Grand session out of a strip mall, go spend a little time sitting with Gr Sec & staff.  Sit down & ask questions before coming to any conclusions. While expensive (and getting more so each year) they are the most substantial symbol of our fraternity, and in many cases, historic treasures.  Normally we could get federal aid to keep them up, but there are always strings attached.
> 
> The longest tradition of Masonry isn't ritual: it's complaining about Grand lodge.  Freemasonry is a democracy ;  if you don't like it, put in a resolution to get it changed.  And be graceful enough to accept the results.



Well said. If you've got a problem with Grand Lodge, take it up with them - Don't take it out on the building


----------



## Bill Hosler (Jun 17, 2013)

My mother Grand lodge, the Grand Lodge of Indiana has a pretty decent set up.  In 1909 The Brethren of Indianapolis wanted a new temple.  The GL, Indy York Rite and blue lodges went in together and build a new temple a block from the Indianapolis Scottish rite cathedral.  Each group owns a share of the building which is governed by a building committee which oversees the maintenance..etc The Grand Lodge has their offices on the ground floor of the building along with the auditorium and the Blue lodges, York Rite..etc occupy the remaining floors.

Around 2006 a per capita of $2.00 per member in the state was assessed to refurbished the building to get it ready for the centennial  celebration in 2009. The building was completely renovated and the Indiana Masonic museum was moved from the Masonic home in Franklin (which was usually closed, no one ever went there) to the Grand Lodge building and will soon be open to the public. 

http://www.indytemple.org/centennial/


----------



## relapse98 (Jun 17, 2013)

JFS61 said:


> to turn our backs on the legacy our forefathers entrusted us with because it has become "inconvenient"



Is the legacy Texas Masonry or a building?

I will fully admit that we may not be able to find a buyer for the building, but why must we maintain such a stupendous edifice? Apparently we aren't able to maintain it to the degree it should be maintained. Don't see why we couldn't have a much more modest office/library/museum somewhere and have Grand Lodge in different cities each year.


----------



## dfreybur (Jun 17, 2013)

relapse98 said:


> Is the legacy Texas Masonry or a building?



Bingo.



> I will fully admit that we may not be able to find a buyer for the building, but why must we maintain such a stupendous edifice? Apparently we aren't able to maintain it to the degree it should be maintained. Don't see why we couldn't have a much more modest office/library/museum somewhere and have Grand Lodge in different cities each year.



Waco has the advantage of being centrally located based on population.  Waco has the disadvantage of being small.  There isn't a big convention market for the building to be used for enough other events.  I take it the building was erected long before the big convention center a few blocks north so at one point it had some amount of convention business to help pay for itself.

Without a building GL could be held in rotating locations.  Houston, Dallas, etc.  Spread the inconvenience of travel around.  Illinois tried that for a while then eventually settled on Springfield as centrally located.  Even though it's the state capital Springfield is tiny to this big city boy and it's larger than Waco.


----------



## BryanMaloney (Jun 20, 2013)

*Re: Solicitation of funds from Grand Lodge of Texas AF &amp; AM*



JFS61 said:


> Well said. If you've got a problem with Grand Lodge, take it up with them - Don't take it out on the building



What if the problem with Grand Lodge is expenditures on dead stones (buildings) instead of live men (Freemasonry)?


----------



## BryanMaloney (Jun 20, 2013)

Note that Indiana also rents out Freemasons' Hall to other groups, and thus manages to finance it at least in part that way. Freemason's Hall (and the Scottish Rite Temple) in Indianapolis are both popular places to rent for events. I used to live in Indy, some years ago (before I petitioned).


----------



## Bill Lins (Jun 20, 2013)

dfreybur said:


> I take it the building was erected long before the big convention center a few blocks north so at one point it had some amount of convention business to help pay for itself.


I don't know that they ever utilized it for that reason, although they should have. 

The reason I suggest moving GL to Austin is, besides being the seat of state government, it is more centrally located in terms of transportation- airlines actually go there. That's important for folks in El Paso, the Panhandle, and the RGV.


----------



## Bill Lins (Jun 20, 2013)

dfreybur said:


> This applies to lodges as well as grand lodges.  <snip> The building pays for itself.  <snip> Sure enough lodges that have buildings that turn a positive cash flow are lodges that flourish in the long term.


That's the future, whether we like it or not. The economic model we've used for so long no longer works, primarily due to increases in the cost of insurance, maintenance, & utilities. If Lodges are going to be required to own buildings (something I strongly oppose) those buildings must be able to pay for themselves. We must loosen the restrictions regarding usage of Lodges by others.


----------



## Bill Hosler (Jun 20, 2013)

BryanMaloney said:


> Note that Indiana also rents out Freemasons' Hall to other groups, and thus manages to finance it at least in part that way. Freemason's Hall (and the Scottish Rite Temple) in Indianapolis are both popular places to rent for events. I used to live in Indy, some years ago (before I petitioned).



You are right. But it is hard to rent out because the GL of Indiana doesn't allow alcohol in the building. It really limits the amount of business you can get. 

I was the manager of the temple in Fort Wayne. It took years to get the approval to allow alcohol in the building for wedding receptions. We were months away from closing our doors until that passed now the building is in its way to recovery. 


Freemason Connect Mobile


----------



## Bro_Vick (Jun 22, 2013)

Bill_Lins77488 said:


> I don't know that they ever utilized it for that reason, although they should have.
> 
> The reason I suggest moving GL to Austin is, besides being the seat of state government, it is more centrally located in terms of transportation- airlines actually go there. That's important for folks in El Paso, the Panhandle, and the RGV.



Excellent point, when the Grand Lodge was established in Waco, it was because all trains passed through there, but who takes the train anymore?  I mean beside hipsters.  Getting flights to Austin, Dallas, Houston is far easier than anything to Waco.

S&F,
-Bro Vick


----------



## BryanMaloney (Jun 22, 2013)

How many Freemasons does it take to change a light bulb?
Candles were good enough for our forebears, they are good enough for us!


----------



## JFS61 (Jun 22, 2013)

Bro_Vick said:


> Excellent point, when the Grand Lodge was established in Waco, it was because all trains passed through there, but who takes the train anymore?  I mean beside hipsters.  Getting flights to Austin, Dallas, Houston is far easier than anything to Waco.
> 
> S&F,
> -Bro Vick



It was located in Waco as it was considered the most neutral of the large cities in the state at that time - Houston would not have tolerated a GL in Dallas (or Fort Worth) or vice versa.


----------



## Bill Lins (Jun 22, 2013)

JFS61 said:


> It was located in Waco as it was considered the most neutral of the large cities in the state at that time - Houston would not have tolerated a GL in Dallas (or Fort Worth) or vice versa.


Previous to being moved to Waco, GL _was_ in Houston.


----------



## JFS61 (Jun 22, 2013)

Bill_Lins77488 said:


> Previous to being moved to Waco, GL _was_ in Houston.



Just relaying what some elderly masons from back in the day told me many years ago (take it for what it's worth).


----------



## Bro_Vick (Jun 23, 2013)

JFS61 said:


> Just relaying what some elderly masons from back in the day told me many years ago (take it for what it's worth).



Yeah, it was based off access to the train, and all trains at the time went through Waco.  Even the oldest member agrees, unless they are projecting some grudge...

Sent from my Desire HD using Freemasonry mobile app


----------



## dfreybur (Jun 23, 2013)

These days taking a train is like taking a ship.  The transportation itself *is* the destination.  Cruises on ships and scenic lines on trains.  I've taken Amtrak to get from point A to point B but it was less convenient and slower then even taking a bus.  But looking out of the windows the train went through beautiful regions.  The idea that I might take a train to Waco nowadays is like the idea that I would have a party line on my phone.

On the one hand Waco is centrally located.  On the other hand it's tiny even compared to a small city like San Antonio.  It's too small to justify as a destination itself.  We went to Waco a couple of weekends ago.  We saw the GL building and then started searching out other touristy places.  The Dr Pepper Museum was small but fun.  Then we went to Austin for dinner.  Austin is small compared to Dallas, Houston, Atlanta, Los Angeles,etc but it's much larger than Waco.  I am not convinced that for Texas being centrally located is worth it.  That barely works for Springfield in Illinois and then only because it's the state capitol and we don't own a large building.


----------



## JJones (Jun 23, 2013)

The problem is that Texas is so big that even a centrally located city is still a long ways for some people.

BTW, if you like Mexican food then you should try out Chewie's next time you're in Waco.


----------



## BryanMaloney (Jun 24, 2013)

At latest calculation, the center of population for Texas is very close to the Center Lake Cemetery between Little River and Holland. It is within 10 miles of the Killeen-Temple-Fort Hood metropolitan statistical area (~400,000 population). It is almost equidistant between Waco and Austin, proper. Round Rock is a bit closer to the center of population than is Waco. Given historical trends, it will continue to move in a line trending toward Houston, passing through Milam, Burleson, Washington, etc. counties. The trend says "Houston". Given Houston's economic vs. Waco and its less dysfunctional "growth" policies vs. Austin, this trend will likely continue. Waco is the past.


----------



## jaanthony (Jul 28, 2013)

Rumor has it that TGLoT is going to ask the Lodges of Texas to donate $2,000.00 to help with the building fund. 

Freemason Connect Mobile


----------



## Mac (Jul 29, 2013)

I second the notion of selling the GL building, moving into a smaller more appropriate venue in Austin, and rotating the state convention each year.  A historic library/ management office in Austin would require far less in upkeep, and would be endowed for quite the length of time via the funds from the sale of the first building.


----------



## Roy Vance (Jul 29, 2013)

jaanthony said:


> Rumor has it that TGLoT is going to ask the Lodges of Texas to donate $2,000.00 to help with the building fund.
> 
> Freemason Connect Mobile



I, for one, have not seen or heard this rumor. My lodges, neither of them, that I know of, have received any kind of solicitation to that effect. Being a principle officer in both lodges, I would have been made aware of such, or so I would think.


----------



## Roy Vance (Jul 29, 2013)

Mac said:


> I second the notion of selling the GL building, moving into a smaller more appropriate venue in Austin, and rotating the state convention each year. A historic library/ management office in Austin would require far less in upkeep, and would be endowed for quite the length of time via the funds from the sale of the first building.



I quite agree with you on this one. The cost of maintenance and such for the dinosaur in Waco, in my estimation, has gotten out of hand. The location, as others have mentioned, is no longer central to anything in the state, and also, other states have their Grand Lodge Communications in different locations every year. New Mexico is one of them. The city chosen for the Communiction could have the local lodge sponser it and make arrangements with the convention centers or whatever. It would sure spread some revenue around the state and let some of the other Master Masons attend from time to time.


----------



## Plustax (Jul 29, 2013)

Why not make the GLoT mobile in that it's held at different locations every December? The museum & other permanent artifacts could be placed in a much smaller place (or even build one). Annual meeting could be held in convention centers in different cities. The savings woud be awesome. Kind of like the way Tranquility Lodge is done throughout the year. Or why not rent a much smaller place if office space is needed? If I can manage multi million dollar projects remotely from home & work with teams all over the world, then surely it can be done throughout Texas. We have the tools and technology to maintain the GLoT from different areas. OR is it that people want to continue using old methods? This is a "do-able" solution, we just need to accept & get with "the times". I'm not asking to dilute Masonry... Just manage the GLoT more efficiently & smarter.  Face it.... Financial times are not getting better in our State for many reasons.. Immigration, population growth, education, longer life expectancy, Medicare/Medicaid cuts, VA cuts, etc... We need to work/manage more efficiently.


----------



## RedTemplar (Jul 29, 2013)

Instead of bricks and mortar, Masons everywhere should be more concerned about the needs of the Temple that is taught in the Northeast Corner of the EA Degree.


----------



## relapse98 (Jul 30, 2013)

Mac said:


> I second the notion of selling the GL building, moving into a smaller more appropriate venue in Austin, and rotating the state convention each year.  A historic library/ management office in Austin would require far less in upkeep, and would be endowed for quite the length of time via the funds from the sale of the first building.



The only problem I have with this, and otherwise I completely love it and think we could build a nice looking building for the museum, library, archive and offices, is that who on earth would buy it?


----------



## dhouseholder (Jul 30, 2013)

I'm betting that GLoT assesses each Texas Mason a few bucks for the next few years to pay for the renovations.


----------



## relapse98 (Jul 30, 2013)

dhouseholder said:


> I'm betting that GLoT assesses each Texas Mason a few bucks for the next few years to pay for the renovations.



I don't believe that can happen without being voted on at Grand Lodge, they can only ask.


----------



## dfreybur (Jul 30, 2013)

Plustax said:


> Why not make the GLoT mobile in that it's held at different locations every December?



States that rotate locations have a tendency to settle on one city for a while.  I suspect if you look over a long enough time scale it becomes a cycle of wandering, settling, then wandering again.


----------



## relapse98 (Jul 30, 2013)

dfreybur said:


> States that rotate locations have a tendency to settle on one city for a while.



Have Texas OES and Rainbow run into that problem?

(I kind of know the answer, OES seems to move all the time, never staying in 1 place more than 2 years from what I can find and Rainbow the same thing although that might be changing here soon for them)


----------



## Plustax (Jul 31, 2013)

Here... Here.... I second that.   Well said brother.



dalinkou said:


> Several years ago, I realized that I needed to make some radical decisions in order to secure my financial future.   I sold a beloved automobile, several firearms, paid off all my bills, downsized into a smaller home, and improved my career options.  Thankfully, I now enjoy the benefit of having made the effort.
> 
> If a man, a country, or an organization of any kind does not do the same, what is the destiny that can be expected?
> 
> Regardless of what side of the fence you are on, this cannot end well if GLoT cannot get it together.  If that means downsizing into smaller accommodations, then that is what we need to do……not to save the Grand Lodge, or money, but Masonry in Texas.


----------



## Brother_Steve (Aug 1, 2013)

dalinkou said:


> Several years ago, I realized that I needed to make some radical decisions in order to secure my financial future.   I sold a beloved automobile, several firearms, paid off all my bills, downsized into a smaller home, and improved my career options.  Thankfully, I now enjoy the benefit of having made the effort.
> 
> If a man, a country, or an organization of any kind does not do the same, what is the destiny that can be expected?
> 
> Regardless of what side of the fence you are on, this cannot end well if GLoT cannot get it together.  If that means downsizing into smaller accommodations, then that is what we need to do……not to save the Grand Lodge, or money, but Masonry in Texas.


While I agree with your sentiment, history has proved over and over what large corporations and governments have done.

Politics are not to play a part in Masonry but you're seeing what politicking does in the organization and it is not limited to masonry.


----------



## Godfrey Daniel (Aug 1, 2013)

Mark 12:17


----------



## jvarnell (Aug 1, 2013)

Godfrey Daniel said:


> Mark 12:17



Man your on a roll today.


----------



## Jericho2013 (Aug 1, 2013)

I guess I'm torn on this.  I'm against a $15 mil. expansion but I do like the idea of having a grand lodge that looks grand to represent masonry in the state of Texas.  It would be nice if it were in Houston because then I could see it.  Of course the reality is that the masons themselves represent masonry in Texas.  I certainly don't want to ever see local lodges hurting over the expanding bloat of the GLoT.


----------



## Mac (Aug 3, 2013)

relapse98 said:


> The only problem I have with this, and otherwise I completely love it and think we could build a nice looking building for the museum, library, archive and offices, is that who on earth would buy it?



Honestly, I think Baylor might consider buying the building.  It's historic and could be made use of for new purposes, including performances or ceremonies possibly.


Freemason Connect HD


----------



## timgould (Aug 7, 2013)

I agree that these ranting are fruitless. I find it disturbing that so many "masons" can openly disparage other Masons. They may be Grand Officers, but they are also Master Masons. I seem to remember something in the Master Mason obligation.... and these comments I find very inappropriate.  I think for all of you out there that seems to have such a problem with our Grand Lodge, and it's current state, that YOU petition to join the Grand Lodge as a Leader so that you can direct your passion to help correct the problem. Otherwise, all this is only back biting, and defaming. And what is the point of that...masons? It's time now to MAN UP and be true Masons. Be part of the solution, or quiet yourself. Offer solutions to the GLoT with the respect they have earned and rightly deserve. You are embarrassing our fraternity by openly spouting off on this NON TILED forum.


----------



## JD Price (Aug 7, 2013)

timgould said:


> I agree that these ranting are fruitless. I find it disturbing that so many "masons" can openly disparage other Masons. They may be Grand Officers, but they are also Master Masons. I seem to remember something in the Master Mason obligation.... and these comments I find very inappropriate.  I think for all of you out there that seems to have such a problem with our Grand Lodge, and it's current state, that YOU petition to join the Grand Lodge as a Leader so that you can direct your passion to help correct the problem. Otherwise, all this is only back biting, and defaming. And what is the point of that...masons? It's time now to MAN UP and be true Masons. Be part of the solution, or quiet yourself. Offer solutions to the GLoT with the respect they have earned and rightly deserve. You are embarrassing our fraternity by openly spouting off on this NON TILED forum.



I could not agree more 


Freemason Connect HD


----------



## Traveling Man (Aug 10, 2013)

Wow, I cannot believe that some individuals here are trying to stifle creative debate and conversation under the banner of "proper Masonic protocol".
It would appear that it must have not become apparent that "we" as the fraternity "are" the grand lodge and the "elected" are our representatives. As if it has not become obvious, we are suggesting viable alternatives. The bottom line will be, we will vote with our wallets. We are suggesting practical alternatives, is there a problem with that?
No one here is disparaging anyone in the grand lodge. These discussions do not have to be held in a tiled meeting or forum that in anyway stifles creativity. If the grand lodge does not receive the money, then the brethren have spoken. Small lodges that are in financial straights need not be strained to the breaking point to finance a white elephant that's barley used, and cannot accommodate the in rush when grand lodge is in session.


----------



## JJones (Aug 10, 2013)

Last I heard we've gotten about 200k this year out of the 8mil that's been projected (I also learned that 8 mil was a very conservative estimate).  I'd second that the brothers are voting with their wallets.


----------



## timgould (Aug 13, 2013)

Personally I do not mind an open discussion. But if one reads through all these comments, one can see that many of these comments go beyond simple Brain storming or honest opinions. Those are the posts to which I take exception.


----------



## Texan92 (Aug 13, 2013)

I for one travel through Waco not to Waco.  Reasons why nothing to see that takes more than an hour.  I do not mean to offend anyone in Waco.  Something must and will be done and not all will like it.  There are many options and we will have to decide. 


Freemason Connect HD


----------



## Jericho2013 (Aug 14, 2013)

Just hearing from our secretary and treasurer the other day saying that we currently will be $1200 short this year changes my opinion about this.  Our lodge building is a historical landmark being that it is the second oldest lodge in continuous operation in the state of Texas.  Such a shame if we can't keep it going.  I will be donating what I can.


----------



## timgould (Aug 14, 2013)

The Temple was also dedicated to as a Memorial to the WWII vets. Just heard about this in my stated Blue this past week by our DDGM.


----------



## Mac (Aug 14, 2013)

We're also talking about the current deficit. We are a shrinking organization and this building won't get any cheaper to maintain over time. It was a grand gesture, including its dedication to veterans, but a new more reasonable home building could be rededicated in its place. 


Sent via mobile app (Freemason Connect HD)


----------

