# Three lesser lights.



## Levelhead (Aug 18, 2015)

Ok ive been in many lodges and also have seen many pictured of the three lesser lights which are places IATPATA. 

Problem is, ive noticed the third in some lodges to the right and some to the left. 

I would say it was a setup mistake but all of them are hard wired so its where it goes.

Now i know the correct way they should be! 

Anyone else ever notice this?


Sent from Mossy Oak Swamp Bottom.


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## BroBook (Aug 18, 2015)

Interesting, I had a problem with them appearing to be to far north, but left or right it still forms that triangle, the difference could lay in the ancient vs modern thing?


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## Levelhead (Aug 18, 2015)

No ive been in only F&AM lodges and saw this. 
I first noticed because I am practicing to put on an entered apprentice degree from the east when I went to a different lodge i was practicing from the east I pointed towards the lights when I pointed towards the third light there was nothing there it was on the other side! Lol i stopped and was like soooo somethings wrong. 

I checked my floor work book and know what the correct way is.


Sent from Mossy Oak Swamp Bottom.


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## Levelhead (Aug 18, 2015)

And btw these lights are hardwired into the ground this way! 


Sent from Mossy Oak Swamp Bottom.


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## Brother JC (Aug 18, 2015)

Every jurisdiction is different, but lodges within a single jurisdiction should all be the same.


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## Glen Cook (Aug 18, 2015)

Brother JC said:


> Every jurisdiction is different, but lodges within a single jurisdiction should all be the same.


Oh? Why should lodges within a jurisdiction be the same?  My mother GL doesn't require such.


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## goomba (Aug 18, 2015)

Some US grand lodges require a uniformed set up.  But some don't.  In Alabama (were I became a Mason) the lights are next to the alter on the N and S sides.  When I visited in Mississippi the lights were all on the S side. 

I visited a lodge in DC (http://fiatlux1717.org/) and the lights were directly in front of the stations (Bro. Cook this may be familiar to you).  But not all Washington DC lodges have the same set up.  The grand lodge of DC allows lodges to use different rituals so long as they are recognized Masonic rituals and not something you thought up last Tuesday.

It's not the placement of the lights but the alignment so to speak that conveys the message.  That's at least my understanding, more educated brothers please correct me if I'm wrong.


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## Pscyclepath (Aug 19, 2015)

The arrangement will vary from jurisdiction to jurisdiction...  because each GL is entitled to do things their own way ;-)

One excellent reference that I've been using is Bro. Robert G. Davis' "The Mason's Words: The History and Evolution of the American Masonic Ritual," (Guthrie, OK, Building Stone Publishing, 2013).  Davis goes into the arrangement of the lights and how they're set up in some 12 arrangements.   Even traveling through lodges here in Arkansas, I've noticed that some lodges have different arrangements within the same jurisdiction, depending on just who assembled the altar.

Some are hardwired into the altar, others are portable.  Ours are portable, since the OES and Rainbow borrow the meeting room and have their own setup arrangements.   Our Lodge's arrangement is pretty much by the ritual, and explained therein, but in part of the unwritten words, so I will be circumspect...


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## Erickson Ybarra (Aug 19, 2015)

I was told the lesser lights are arranged around the altar according to which degree they open in. I'm just an EA so I haven't seen other arrangements yet...could be wrong.


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## dfreybur (Aug 19, 2015)

Levelhead said:


> And btw these lights are hardwired into the ground this way!



I've seen at least one lodge where the socket in the floor was in the wrong place.  I guess it is safer or more convenient to place the trio of lights where the plug incorrectly is than to run a cord around the altar risking a trip.

I've seen lodges with the lesser light all having separate pedestals.  I see in very many illustrations that the candles are literally placed around the altar but every lodge now seems to cluster them together. I get the impression that someone tripped over a pedestal with a candle and set off a fire, then lodges all over the country switched to a safer arrangement.


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## Brother JC (Aug 19, 2015)

Glen Cook said:


> Oh? Why should lodges within a jurisdiction be the same?  My mother GL doesn't require such.


I stand corrected. My Mother GL requires it and states the placement in the ritual.


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## Levelhead (Aug 19, 2015)

My floor work book shows how it IS AND SHOULD BE for the entire district. But some lodges i guess are just wrong lol


Sent from Mossy Oak Swamp Bottom.


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## GKA (Aug 19, 2015)

I have only seen them to the right


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## Ripcord22A (Aug 19, 2015)

In oregon the are placed around the alter in nm the are to the right


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## Bill Lins (Aug 19, 2015)

Erickson Ybarra said:


> I was told the lesser lights are arranged around the altar according to which degree they open in. I'm just an EA so I haven't seen other arrangements yet...could be wrong.


Under GLoTX, Lodges have the option of arranging the LL according to the degree in which they are opened or in what one could call the "standard" arrangement.


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## Warrior1256 (Aug 20, 2015)

Interesting. As a relatively new MM (one year this month) I have visited numerous lodges (in my state only) and the LL were all arranged the same.


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## dfreybur (Aug 21, 2015)

Bill_Lins77488 said:


> Under GLoTX, Lodges have the option of arranging the LL according to the degree in which they are opened or in what one could call the "standard" arrangement.



So far all of the degrees I have attended in Texas have used the standard arrangement.  I look forward to seeing this local variation at some point.


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## Bill Lins (Aug 21, 2015)

dfreybur said:


> So far all of the degrees I have attended in Texas have used the standard arrangement.  I look forward to seeing this local variation at some point.


San Marcos Lodge was the sponsor of the resolution requesting the option. You might plan a visit there.


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## Companion Joe (Aug 22, 2015)

Our state has them placed E, S, W of the altar specified at a 3-4-5 distance. Ours are brass pole lamps (if you think about one without a shade) about 3 feet tall. We use the S&C bulbs. They have to be portable (our altar is also on rollers) because so many different bodies meet in our building.


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## Canadian Paul (Aug 22, 2015)

In all the lodges under both jurisdictions here the lights are placed in front of the pedestals of the Master and the two Wardens, not around the Altar. In most there is a bit of elabourate floorwork by Senior Deacon in lighting or extinguishing them as needed as the Lodge is Opened, Passed, Raised, Reduced and Closed.


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## GKA (Aug 22, 2015)

I love those S&C bulbs, but can't find them


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## crono782 (Aug 23, 2015)

Macoy and JP Luther both carry them. I believe Macoy is more expensive, but better customer service.


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