# Bogus, Clandestine, Unrecognized, and In All Ways Irregular



## My Freemasonry

​​The recent story about the bogus, clandestine, unrecognized, and _completely_ irregular "Masonic Police Department" that played itself out yesterday brings up a related point. I think there's something useful in putting an explanatory page on our grand lodge websites about what regularity and recognition mean Masonically. Those who join lodges under the jurisdictions that are considered irregular and unrecognized by the principal grand lodge in a state (or country) will not be allowed to visit and interact with the _overwhelming_ majority of the Masonic world, outside of their own isolated group. That's just truth in advertising, and people should understand what they are joining, and what they are not.

It doesn't do any of us any good to pretend other grand lodges aren't at work in our states. Anyone seeking membership in our jurisdictions by looking online is bound to run into other lodges or grand lodges that don't fit the mold of what we teach. (When I tell most American Masons that almost 20% of the Freemasons in France are women, they look at me like the dog talked.) We might as well acknowledge their existence and explain the difference.

This is a particularly vexing problem in the black community in the US. There are hundreds of small grand lodges or independent lodges at work, and many of them are listed by the Phylaxis Society's Commission on Bogus Masonic Practices. New ones pop up every day. As is stated on the Phylaxis site, _"There are more African American Bogus Grand Lodges in the United States than there are Legitimate Grand Lodge around the World." _(I recently saw a new one in Atlanta, with a well designed website, looking very official.) 

These "bogus" lodges and grand lodges are often spawned by arguments and ego clashes, or exist as money-making schemes for their organizers. They sometimes make wild claims about their pedigree, and often their members think they can intervisit in the greater Masonic world. Many also engage in wholly irregular practices, such as hazing violence. (Have a closer look above at the release form that petitioners must sign, from the "International Free & Accepted masons Inc," indemnifying them from legal action resulting from injuries suffered during degrees. Yeah.)

Unfortunately, people tend to join organizations that their friends, family or co-workers do, and bogus groups are somewhat self-perpetuating. They are fueled by new public awareness of Freemasonry from media sources, and the interest is growing. Opportunists see a chance to cash in on an ancient fraternity's history and reputation, and thus the problem continues. Regularity and recognition are issues that make outsiders' eyes glaze over, but I think ALL regular and overwhelmingly recognized grand lodges need to address the issue on their public material. It would help to put a stop to - or at least slow down -  the practice, and guide potential new members to the more widely welcoming world of Masonry.

Continue reading...


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## Dontrell Stroman

Good read. Very good point made : I've ran into Modern Free & Accepted Masons that were under the impression that they could visit any PHA or GL subordinate lodges. 

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## Bloke

Did you seen the disclaimer in the application letter ? Never seen anything like that...


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## Bill Lins

Bloke said:


> Did you seen the disclaimer in the application letter ? Never seen anything like that...


That, in and of itself, would have had me heading for the exit right then.


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## Bloke

Bill_Lins77488 said:


> That, in and of itself, would have had me heading for the exit right then.



Same here...


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## Winter

Wow. You have to wonder what kind of things are going on that a waiver like that is necessary. 



Transmitted via my R5 astromech.


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## Ripcord22A

3rd RUF uses real hammer and they dont catch you...lol....


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## Winter

jdmadsenCraterlake211 said:


> 3rd RUF uses real hammer and they dont catch you...lol....


Wait, it's NOT supposed to be a 3lb baby sledge?

Transmitted via my R5 astromech.


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## Ripcord22A

also they make you take an actual blood oath and ride a rabid goat


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## dfreybur

Travelling Man91 said:


> I've ran into Modern Free & Accepted Masons that were under the impression that they could visit any PHA or GL subordinate lodges.



They end up pretty surprised when their dues card is rejected.  Any clandestine jurisdiction not just that specific one.


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## Mel Knight

I can somewhat understand why there's a high number of African Americans joining bogus lodges.


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## Ripcord22A

How can u understand that?

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## laruewhite53

I was hazed when I belong to a bogus Lodge. I was HIT with a paddle. It hurt to the point I almost quit.


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## mrpierce17

Mel Knight said:


> I can somewhat understand why there's a high number of African Americans joining bogus lodges.


I can't they need only do a little research I did my research on both GL of state and PH before making the decision to join I wanted to be sure I was joining a legitimate branch  of freemasonry


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## Mel Knight

mrpierce17 said:


> I can't they need only do a little research I did my research on both GL of state and PH before making the decision to join I wanted to be sure I was joining a legitimate branch  of freemasonry



I agree with brothers doing some research in this day in age it's much easier to find information online. 

However what if a brother did not want to join PH and wanted to join a GL of State? There are a few southern states that still to this day has never raised an African American person. 

As a matter of fact this Friday, without reveling the state or lodge I'm attending the raising of the first American American of the GL of State.


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## Warrior1256

Bill_Lins77488 said:


> That, in and of itself, would have had me heading for the exit right then.





Winter said:


> Wow. You have to wonder what kind of things are going on that a waiver like that is necessary.
> 
> 
> 
> Transmitted via my R5 astromech.


Yeah, no kidding. I followed this story closely as it was just so weird.


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## Plustax

Sadly a few years ago while sitting in a Lodge in Tx and witnessing a degree, a Modern Day Mason sat in that lodge as well. I also saw when he was taken by lodge members to be examined before hand, but I still felt "uneasy" so I did some research later that day and discovered he belonged to a Free and Accepted Modern Day Mason lodge outside of Texas. I brought it to the attention of the WM and his response was a little "defensive" in stating that he attended the exam on the person and saw nothing wrong after seeing his DL and Membership Card was up to date so he let him in. That's the problem with many lodges during these times.... persons don't know how to examine properly. You would think that surely the WM would have known the process of using the Secretary's books of Lodges in Texas and the world. I believe it happens more often than we think, see and hear.


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## Bloke

Plustax said:


> Sadly a few years ago while sitting in a Lodge in Tx and witnessing a degree, a Modern Day Mason sat in that lodge as well. I also saw when he was taken by lodge members to be examined before hand, but I still felt "uneasy" so I did some research later that day and discovered he belonged to a Free and Accepted Modern Day Mason lodge outside of Texas. I brought it to the attention of the WM and his response was a little "defensive" in stating that he attended the exam on the person and saw nothing wrong after seeing his DL and Membership Card was up to date so he let him in. That's the problem with many lodges during these times.... persons don't know how to examine properly. You would think that surely the WM would have known the process of using the Secretary's books of Lodges in Texas and the world. I believe it happens more often than we think, see and hear.



The time to speak up was before... speaking up after put the WM in a very tricky position - thankfully not one I've been in. ... some of the key jobs of a WM are to comply with the const, preserve the landmark and preserve the warrant.. and the above event compromised all three. My advice - never reveal the lodge that happen in.... i am sure they would not have admitted him in subsequent meetings..


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## Warrior1256

Plustax said:


> Sadly a few years ago while sitting in a Lodge in Tx and witnessing a degree, a Modern Day Mason sat in that lodge as well. I also saw when he was taken by lodge members to be examined before hand, but I still felt "uneasy" so I did some research later that day and discovered he belonged to a Free and Accepted Modern Day Mason lodge outside of Texas. I brought it to the attention of the WM and his response was a little "defensive" in stating that he attended the exam on the person and saw nothing wrong after seeing his DL and Membership Card was up to date so he let him in. That's the problem with many lodges during these times.... persons don't know how to examine properly. You would think that surely the WM would have known the process of using the Secretary's books of Lodges in Texas and the world. I believe it happens more often than we think, see and hear.


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## Warrior1256

Plustax said:


> Sadly a few years ago while sitting in a Lodge in Tx and witnessing a degree, a Modern Day Mason sat in that lodge as well. I also saw when he was taken by lodge members to be examined before hand, but I still felt "uneasy" so I did some research later that day and discovered he belonged to a Free and Accepted Modern Day Mason lodge outside of Texas.


A very similar thing happened at a lodge that I visited.


Bloke said:


> The time to speak up was before... speaking up after put the WM in a very tricky position - thankfully not one I've been in. ... some of the key jobs of a WM are to comply with the const, preserve the landmark and preserve the warrant.. and the above event compromised all three. My advice - never reveal the lodge that happen in.... i am sure they would not have admitted him in subsequent meetings..


Agreed.


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## Dontrell Stroman

Off topic, but I see no need to start another thread when in same in the same category. I was speaking with the GL of TN and they said for a PHA mason to petition their lodges, he has to first denounce his membership. What are your brothers thoughts on this ?

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## Ripcord22A

I don't know about the terminology of denounce but PHA doesn't allow multiple dual whatever you want to call it memberships Sophia PHA member to join any Grand Lodge of State they would have to no longer be members of a PHA jurisdiction. I believe either Minnesota or Michigan is the only PHA jurisdiction that allows duel or plural membership.  Afaik PHA doesnt even allow its members to be members of more then 1 lodge in their own jurisdictions


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## Bloke

Travelling Man91 said:


> Off topic, but I see no need to start another thread when in same in the same category. I was speaking with the GL of TN and they said for a PHA mason to petition their lodges, he has to first denounce his membership. What are your brothers thoughts on this ?
> 
> Sent from my 831C using My Freemasonry Pro mobile app


Denounce or Renounce ?

Me, I am a fan of duel memberships - I can't see how a GL should restrict freedom of association  - esp with other regular freemasons from GLs you are in amity with...


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## MRichard

Travelling Man91 said:


> Off topic, but I see no need to start another thread when in same in the same category. I was speaking with the GL of TN and they said for a PHA mason to petition their lodges, he has to first denounce his membership. What are your brothers thoughts on this ?
> 
> Sent from my 831C using My Freemasonry Pro mobile app



They don't recognize any PHA grand lodge and most PHA jurisdictions don't allow you to have dual or multiple affiliations.


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## MRichard

Travelling Man91 said:


> Off topic, but I see no need to start another thread when in same in the same category. I was speaking with the GL of TN and they said for a PHA mason to petition their lodges, he has to first denounce his membership. What are your brothers thoughts on this ?
> 
> Sent from my 831C using My Freemasonry Pro mobile app



Not sure if you are really interested but you would have a better chance with the Grand Lodge of Georgia if you are still staying in the same place. Gate City Lodge #2 has several Black members. http://www.gatecity2.org/officers.html


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## Dontrell Stroman

Correction, renounce. The problem is, my GL is not in Amity with the State GL. (PHA and GL of state). He said the first step is to fill out a form to renounce PHA. Then you can petition a lodge. That means if the GL of state blue Lodge doesn't vote you in then you will no longer be a active mason in any Lodge. I'm pretty sure if a man renounced PHA and he didn't get in, PHA would not let him back in.


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## MRichard

Travelling Man91 said:


> Correction, renounce. The problem is, my GL is not in Amity with the State GL. (PHA and GL of state). He said the first step is to fill out a form to renounce PHA. Then you can petition a lodge. That means if the GL of state blue Lodge doesn't vote you in then you will no longer be a active mason in any Lodge. I'm pretty sure if a man renounced PHA and he didn't get in, PHA would not let him back in.



That is why you visit the lodge you want to join and discuss your situation many times before you denounce your membership. Other brothers have done it.


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## Dontrell Stroman

I tried to PM you, but it would not let me


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## Dontrell Stroman

What are your thoughts on renouncing your membership ?


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## MRichard

Travelling Man91 said:


> I tried to PM you, but it would not let me



Okay, will try to send you one


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## MRichard

Travelling Man91 said:


> What are your thoughts on renouncing your membership ?



Sent you a pm.


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## dizlwizl

I can understand if a grand body requires you to renounce your affiliation (PHA to mainstream or vice versa ) since PHA doesn't allow dual/plural membership between both GLs. 

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## Dontrell Stroman

You believe PHA would let someone back in if they renounce ?


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## MRichard

Travelling Man91 said:


> You believe PHA would let someone back in if they renounce ?



I have no idea. There are probably some brothers that would know.


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## dizlwizl

So far, no one that has left PHA (in TX ) and gone mainstream has come back and I'm pretty sure they wouldn't want to.

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## MRichard

dizlwizl said:


> So far, no one that has left PHA (in TX ) and gone mainstream has come back and I'm pretty sure they wouldn't want to.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using My Freemasonry mobile app



I think he means if the ballot was found unfavorable. If you were forced to renounce your membership, then you would be in bad shape then.


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## dizlwizl

Not exactly true. The brother that left PHA left for personal reasons. Demitted and I believe  was told that he had to renounce PHA upon restarting with the GLOTX. 

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## MRichard

dizlwizl said:


> Not exactly true. The brother that left PHA left for personal reasons. Demitted and I believe  was told that he had to renounce PHA upon restarting with the GLOTX.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using My Freemasonry mobile app



Not sure who you are responding to but he appears to be asking about his situation. He lives in Georgia not Texas. Totally different situation.


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## Joe Ellis

'A legitimate branch of Freemasonry'?


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## Glen Cook

Joe Ellis said:


> 'A legitimate branch of Freemasonry'?


Now, you know what is meant by that term and you are aware your obedience is not considered such by UGLE or CGMNA GLs.


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## Joe Ellis

Really?


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## Joe Ellis

Glen Cook said:


> Now, you know what is meant by that term and you are aware your obedience is not considered such by UGLE or CGMNA GLs.


Really?!


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## Bill Lins

JamestheJust said:


> I am not familiar with the obligation for the EA in either, but I wonder if both required him to always proclaim that lodge as his mother lodge.


That requirement is not in the EA obligation under GLoTX.


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## Tela.B

It seems to me while we fussing about who's and who's wrong we need to come together as one while the 3 and 4 letter white mason is continuing to build a bridge and us that's right I said US feel like we the ones who started this first. I been on both sides of  the fence if PHA feels like FA&AM is not legit take them to court, but all the back and forward is very childish.


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## Glen Cook

Tela.B said:


> It seems to me while we fussing about who's and who's wrong we need to come together as one while the 3 and 4 letter white mason is continuing to build a bridge and us that's right I said US feel like we the ones who started this first. I been on both sides of  the fence if PHA feels like FA&AM is not legit take them to court, but all the back and forward is very childish.


Using abbreviations really doesn't help with a characterization of whether a GL is regular. For instance, there is a regular FAAM GL. 
Depending on the civil jurisdiction, there may not be a cause of action to the bring a clandestine body to court. 
To be ckear, the state GLs are not trying to build bridges with the historically black GLs unless they are PHA.


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## Joe Ellis

My Freemasonry said:


> ​
> The recent story about the bogus, clandestine, unrecognized, and _completely_ irregular "Masonic Police Department" that played itself out yesterday brings up a related point. I think there's something useful in putting an explanatory page on our grand lodge websites about what regularity and recognition mean Masonically. Those who join lodges under the jurisdictions that are considered irregular and unrecognized by the principal grand lodge in a state (or country) will not be allowed to visit and interact with the _overwhelming_ majority of the Masonic world, outside of their own isolated group. That's just truth in advertising, and people should understand what they are joining, and what they are not.
> 
> It doesn't do any of us any good to pretend other grand lodges aren't at work in our states. Anyone seeking membership in our jurisdictions by looking online is bound to run into other lodges or grand lodges that don't fit the mold of what we teach. (When I tell most American Masons that almost 20% of the Freemasons in France are women, they look at me like the dog talked.) We might as well acknowledge their existence and explain the difference.
> 
> This is a particularly vexing problem in the black community in the US. There are hundreds of small grand lodges or independent lodges at work, and many of them are listed by the Phylaxis Society's Commission on Bogus Masonic Practices. New ones pop up every day. As is stated on the Phylaxis site, _"There are more African American Bogus Grand Lodges in the United States than there are Legitimate Grand Lodge around the World." _(I recently saw a new one in Atlanta, with a well designed website, looking very official.)
> 
> These "bogus" lodges and grand lodges are often spawned by arguments and ego clashes, or exist as money-making schemes for their organizers. They sometimes make wild claims about their pedigree, and often their members think they can intervisit in the greater Masonic world. Many also engage in wholly irregular practices, such as hazing violence. (Have a closer look above at the release form that petitioners must sign, from the "International Free & Accepted masons Inc," indemnifying them from legal action resulting from injuries suffered during degrees. Yeah.)
> 
> Unfortunately, people tend to join organizations that their friends, family or co-workers do, and bogus groups are somewhat self-perpetuating. They are fueled by new public awareness of Freemasonry from media sources, and the interest is growing. Opportunists see a chance to cash in on an ancient fraternity's history and reputation, and thus the problem continues. Regularity and recognition are issues that make outsiders' eyes glaze over, but I think ALL regular and overwhelmingly recognized grand lodges need to address the issue on their public material. It would help to put a stop to - or at least slow down -  the practice, and guide potential new members to the more widely welcoming world of Masonry.
> 
> Continue reading...


I just love being 'Irregular' - http://www.uniquefreemason.com

Meanwhile, back in the real world......


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## Bloke

Joe Ellis said:


> I just love being 'Irregular' - http://www.uniquefreemason.com
> 
> Meanwhile, back in the real world......


VWBro... well done on that rank. I hear it's not easy to get via UGLE... or did you get it post there ?


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## Glen Cook

Bloke said:


> VWBro... well done on that rank. I hear it's not easy to get via UGLE... or did you get it post there ?


No. He didn't get his rank via UGLE.


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## Joe Ellis

Bloke said:


> VWBro... well done on that rank. I hear it's not easy to get via UGLE... or did you get it post there ?



Thanks for visiting me website. Meanwhile, back in the real world.....


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## Joe Ellis

Glen Cook said:


> No. He didn't get his rank via UGLE.



http://jonaustinreporter.wixsite.co...abuse-by-Freemasons-revealed-by-whistleblower


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## Joe Ellis

Joe Ellis said:


> http://jonaustinreporter.wixsite.co...abuse-by-Freemasons-revealed-by-whistleblower


And why would anyone wish to stand and be abused? Mind boggles. Meanwhile, back in the real world...


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## Joe Ellis

Joe Ellis said:


> And why would anyone wish to stay and be abused? Mind boggles. Meanwhile, back in the real world...


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## Glen Cook

Joe Ellis said:


> And why would anyone wish to stand and be abused? Mind boggles. Meanwhile, back in the real world...


And if this behaviour occurred, it should be considered intolerable, regardless of whether you have the autism diagnosis or a neurological diagnosis. I'm surprised you didn't report the matter to the police and bring a civil action against those whom you indicate said these things.

However, the issue is your less than candid sig line. As one who purportedly sees things in black and white, surely you would wish to include your obedience so people don't think you are a UGLE Mason, an organisation from which you have separated yourself


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## Joe Ellis

Glen Cook said:


> And if this behaviour occurred, it should be considered intolerable, regardless of whether you have the autism diagnosis or a neurological diagnosis. I'm surprised you didn't report the matter to the police and bring a civil action against those whom you indicate said these things.
> 
> However, the issue is your less than candid sig line. As one who purportedly sees things in black and white, surely you would wish to include your obedience so people don't think you are masquerading as a UGLE Mason.



You seem more concerned about 'sig line' and other Mason issues then most things. Meanwhile, back in the real world...


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## Glen Cook

Joe Ellis said:


> You seem more concerned about 'sig line' and other Mason issues then most things. Meanwhile, back in the real world...


Oh, not at all, but this is a Masonic forum, and so we tend to discuss "Mason issues."


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## Tela.B

Understandable, it's like in masonry right regular guys and you have the outlaws both is wearing the square and compass but to keep down the commotion and confront the problem, we'll go back and forward about who is a true mason. If I was a true cop and somebody is acting like a cop I'll confront the person or persons take them to court and get the truth. that's why both sides need to seat down and have a discussion.


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## Glen Cook

Tela.B said:


> Understandable, it's like in masonry right regular guys and you have the outlaws both is wearing the square and compass but to keep down the commotion and confront the problem, we'll go back and forward about who is a true mason. If I was a true cop and somebody is acting like a cop I'll confront the person or persons take them to court and get the truth. that's why both sides need to seat down and have a discussion.


Not entirely sure what the two sides are which you are referencing, but if you are talking about PHA v Bogus GLs, nothing to discuss. We know that PHA is legitimate and the others aren't.

Here is the  Way the discussion would go: 

" You are bogus."

"No we're not."

"Yes, you are."  

Done


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## Warrior1256

Glen Cook said:


> if you are talking about PHA v Bogus GLs, nothing to discuss. We know that PHA is legitimate and the others aren't.


Agreed!


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