# Been reading some weird stuff Aleister Crowley, Mithraism, Adam Weishaupt



## b-mac (May 30, 2013)

Okay I have recently stumbled upon things that I read up on after watching tv and I guess you could say they are interesting at the most. I have read that their was an order started by Adam Weishaupt called the Bavarian Illuminati which was apparently an actual order and Adam apparently actually became a freemason and somehow the 2 are connected? and I have also read about something called the ordo Templi Orientis which was an order Alesiter Crowley joined and apparently had similarities to freemasonry. Also I have read about something called Mithraism which was some cult that people believe we have adopted? I find all this very confusing and weird i'm not saying that I believe something crazy is going on but I wanted to get some help on understanding this. What do these people believe about all of this and what do we as masons say about it. Like I said I find myself very confused brothers. So if anyone could enlighten me on any of this that would be great. @_@

Thank You!


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## nilson (May 30, 2013)

Dont believe every thing you read


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## Brennan (May 31, 2013)

I can't speak for the rest of it but I do know that the Illuminati were not connected to Masonry in its inspection. The guy who founded it became a mason a year after the illuminati was created.


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## geraldcyso (May 31, 2013)

OTO was never a regular masonic lodge to start with, it is a pseudo-masonic organization at best given the fact that they copy masonic rituals.

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## b-mac (May 31, 2013)

Oh okay that is interesting to know. I know they are apparently their own fraternity now and claim not to be a part of masonry on their website with some more stuff. I read that Alister Crowley joined a masonic lodge called "Anglo Saxon Lodge #343" I believe in Mexico?? but apparently it wasn't a recognized lodge and there was some other issues amongst his time.


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## BryanMaloney (May 31, 2013)

Weishaupt intentionally adopted Masonic trappings, as did OTO. Neither one of them were Masonic organizations. They just tried to ride Freemasonry's coat-tails. As for Mithraism, it was a religion popular among Roman soldiers and nobility. Mithra as known in Roman Mithraism, was some sort of solar figure, but little actual information has survived to the present day. Attempts to equate the Roman Mithra with the Persian Mithra are best consigned to the trash heap of conspiracy theory and junk history. Rome's Mithra may have began as the Persian Mithra but ended up a very different figure--a mish-mash of many sources. There were initiatory grades in the religion, and its buildings were very different from other Roman religious buildings. Claims about its competition against Christianity have been over-stated in the past and were probably based upon its popularity among the privileged elite of Rome for a time. There is no reliable evidence that Mithraism survived past the 5th century AD.


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## dfreybur (May 31, 2013)

Search Amazon for Mithraism or Mithraic and you'll find plenty of books.  In college I read a book on Mithraism for some course.  I think this is the one:

http://www.amazon.com/Origins-Mithraic-Mysteries-Publisher-University/dp/B004X1JLQQ

Something about the discovery of the precession of the equinoxes meaning the stars are not fixed.  Must have been strange to folks in the pre-Newton times.


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## filmgeekben (May 31, 2013)

Crowley, the OTO and Golden Dawn (not to be confused with the political party of the same name) are interesting figures on the very periphery of Masonic history. They do not figure into any regular lodge, however. Crowley and other members of such esoteric groups seem to pilfer certain elements from Masonry and then draw much wilder conclusions.

There's plenty of talk about how Masons worship satan, demons, Baphomet, Mithra, etc. And we do use allusions of the sky, sun, light, which may seem to be pagan imagery (if you ignore all of the nature imagery in the Bible) so I suppose that's where that comes from.


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## b-mac (May 31, 2013)

All very interesting I didn't know a lot of that. I actually read that around the 1700-1800's I believe a lot of "masonic rites" started popping up claiming to be a part of masonry. The only thing I figure is possibly they where given the okay in the beginning and where cut off once people caught wind of what they where doing etc? That is just a possibility I thought of. Not  saying its right so correct me if I am wrong. And I actually found a OTO member on the internet and it's interesting because it seems he claimed it's a part of "Irreguler-co masonry" And I suppose nobody can stop them from claiming such things but everything I have read has told me they aren't considered a a part of freemasonry by us "Regular" Freemasons as he would call it I suppose. Interesting to learn about Mithraism I knew nothing about it never heard of it. Thanks for the book recommendation Brother Freyburger. Returning to the thought of "Masonic Rite" branches that I guess you could say are pseudo has anyone heard of this http://egyptianmasonicacademy.blogspot.com/ I mean I couldn't find a lot on them but I found it weird because they go up to 99 degrees which is weird because I have always been told the highest degree out of blue lodge anyways is the 33rd degree which is an honor and not something you can just obtain. So yeah anyone know of it???


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## dfreybur (May 31, 2013)

OTO calling itself a part of irregular CoMasonry.  I bet CoMasonry authorities will report they consider OTO clandestine same as we do.

The 99 degree system is Memphis and Misriam.  Clandestine almost but not quite everywhere.


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## Bro M. Perry (Aug 7, 2013)

Freemasonry was big at the time of these men, and people wanted in. Not all were accepted so offshoot branches of Masonic like orders were created. Now if an occultist was a Mason and for whatever reason left the fraternity, he would have knowledge of the degrees and would be able to use them for their rituals. As far as mr. crowley is concerned, a friend of his was one of the above mentioned Masons and it is my understanding that the this friend performed all three degrees in a privet unchartered lodge. No 7, 5, 3. Which makes it null and void. mr. crowley was not a MM. 


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## Frater Cliff Porter (Aug 7, 2013)

3rd degree of Masonry is the highest degree of blue lodge Masonry.  Can I ask your interest specifically?


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## Tony Uzzell (Aug 9, 2013)

Here's the issue: Freemasonry was seen as very successful and popular among all levels of society in the 18th and 19th centuries, but, while many men wanted membership in the Fraternity for a multitude of reasons, not all men were admitted. In other cases, men joined and later decided they no longer wanted to be members or were suspended/expelled.

This led to two major developments:

(1) the development of non-related non-Masonic organizations that were modeled on the "Lodge system". Some of these organizations became quite famous: the Grange, the Elks, the Eagles, the Knights of Columbus, and the entire Greek college fraternity-sorority system among them. Most you've never heard of because they were limited to specific regions or were so short-lived they never had the time to make a mark on history. These organizations provided social outlets, opportunities for civic involvement, political connections, life insurance, etc. These organizations claim no connection to the Craft and have typically many members in common with the Masonic Lodge (talk to your fellow Masons; many of them are also in the Rotary, the Elks, the Optimists, etc., all of which fall into this category).

(2) the development of what we typically call "pseudo-Masonic organizations" that take a typically-Lodge-like system and focus on the darkest parts of esotericism and base their rituals on bastardizations of Masonic and Masonic-like rituals. These organizations include (but, as above, are not limited to): Thelema, the Ordo Templi Orientis, the Golden Dawn, and the Rite of Memphis-Misraim (In fact, the 95 or 99 degrees of the Rite of M-M take the names of their first 33 degrees mostly from the Ancient and Accepted Rite of Freemasonry, although there was not a direct connection between the two organizations). Many of these organizations claimed connection to the Masonic Order and some were actually started by Lodges that became clandestine by Masonic practice. And you may find a few members of the Masonic Lodge that are a part of these organizations, but they usually have a hard time getting into recognized Lodges due to their...unusual...religious beliefs. It's also worth noting that Crowley was a member of such a Masonic Lodge (as mentioned above), as was Generalissimo Antonio Lopez de Santa Anna, former President of the Republic of Mexico and "Butcher of the Alamo", among many other derisive titles he tends to possess in those lands that use to fall under Mexican rule. I mention this because you often hear both of these men referred to as Masons, when the reality is that they were both clandestine Masons, thus not part of recognized Masonry (I know, good luck explaining the rules of Masonic recognition to those who are not members of the Craft and are often simply out to besmirch its character).

As for co-Masonry, my understanding is that co-Masonry is not recognized by any regular Grand Lodge (the reason for this is due to the fact that they recognize both men and women as "Master Masons", which is strictly forbidden by UGLE and, thus, by all of the Grand Lodges in fraternal concordance with UGLE, which obviously includes both the Grand Lodge of Texas and Prince Hall Grand Lodge of Texas). However, Adoptive Masonic orders (such as the Eastern Star, Amaranth, White Shrine of Jerusalem, etc.) are recognized in many Grand Lodges (although not part of Freemasonry, they do require regular Masonic connection for female members and regular Masonic membership for male members).

TU


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## Zaden (Aug 13, 2013)

Tony Uzzell said:


> (2) the development of what we typically call "pseudo-Masonic organizations" that take a typically-Lodge-like system and focus on the darkest parts of esotericism and base their rituals on bastardizations of Masonic and Masonic-like rituals. These organizations include (but, as above, are not limited to): Thelema, the Ordo Templi Orientis, the Golden Dawn, and the Rite of Memphis-Misraim (In fact, the 95 or 99 degrees of the Rite of M-M take the names of their first 33 degrees mostly from the Ancient and Accepted Rite of Freemasonry, although there was not a direct connection between the two organizations). Many of these organizations claimed connection to the Masonic Order and some were actually started by Lodges that became clandestine by Masonic practice. And you may find a few members of the Masonic Lodge that are a part of these organizations, but they usually have a hard time getting into recognized Lodges due to their...unusual...religious beliefs. It's also worth noting that Crowley was a member of such a Masonic Lodge (as mentioned above), as was Generalissimo Antonio Lopez de Santa Anna, former President of the Republic of Mexico and "Butcher of the Alamo", among many other derisive titles he tends to possess in those lands that use to fall under Mexican rule. I mention this because you often hear both of these men referred to as Masons, when the reality is that they were both clandestine Masons, thus not part of recognized Masonry (I know, good luck explaining the rules of Masonic recognition to those who are not members of the Craft and are often simply out to besmirch its character).
> TU


"Thelema" is a rather broad term, some calling it a religion, others a philosophy, others a "magickal system". The OTO, being the Thelemic organization of the 3 organizations you refer to, is the only one that began as an admittedly pseudo-Masonic order. They, from what I've read, as I'm not a member, admit this and state that they no longer claim to make Masons. The M & M Rite is as you say. The Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn was, according to their legends, founded on (admittedly questionable) "Cipher Documents" (unrelated to Cypher/Cipher books that are used in some jurisdictions of Masonry), and never claimed to be Masonic (and included/includes a wide range of religious beliefs from Roman Catholic to Pagan just like any number of other "rosicrucian" orders that arose around that time). There were clear similarities, and perhaps ideas were taken (since the founders were Masons, as were several members, eg. Arthur Edwarde Waite), but they never crossed the line (nor do the modern versions or the Crowley descendant called the A.'.A.'.) of claiming to make Masons. 

Regarding your assesment of Crowley it is also worth noting that he, like many of his time period, tended to be a "collector" of titles. This isn't a defense of him, simply an attempt to put things in context. His ego tended to get in his and everyone's way, though he was in many ways a product of his times.

I thought M & M admitted women (http://www.memphis-misraim.us/) and didn't think one could be a part of regular Masonry and part of Co-Masonry.


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## BroBook (Sep 25, 2013)

*Re: Been reading some weird stuff Aleister Crowley*

You will always have those that say things that are not true and tell half truth,that is why it is important to study to show yourself approved. Always go back and remember what you were told and asked things like what you come here for,
In whom do you trust and most importantly
On being given light did you see and what did it say and in closing remember in the end this beautiful system of morality will show by us who  
Surrendered to its tenets what it is.


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