# Freemasons can't date?



## Capricornguy (Mar 21, 2018)

Couldn't find a topic on this.

I'm a young guy, and I want to join because of family history having been masons however I think there is something against dating (correct me if I'm wrong).

I'm not trying to get married anytime soon I was offered but I have a lot I want to see and accomplish before I settle down.

This day and age with Instagram,snapchat, twitter its hard for a fellow guy to maintain a girlfriend.

Dumb question but I'm curious what the rules of this are.


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## David612 (Mar 21, 2018)

Freemasonry has no views on dating explicitly however as in all things you should carry yourself with dignity and treat all you encounter with respect.
I’m not sure what you mean about social media making it hard to maintain a girlfriend however.


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## coachn (Mar 22, 2018)

Capricornguy said:


> ... I think there is something against dating (correct me if I'm wrong)...


Where on earth did you get such an idea?


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## Warrior1256 (Mar 22, 2018)

David612 said:


> Freemasonry has no views on dating explicitly


I wonder if he has heard of a certain portion of the MM obligation that may have him confused on this subject?


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## coachn (Mar 22, 2018)

Warrior1256 said:


> I wonder if he has heard of a certain portion of the MM obligation that may have him confused on this subject?


Hence the question.


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## Bloke (Mar 22, 2018)

Not surprising there is not a thread on this - but did you search for a "good pickup lines" thread ? Much more likely to find that topic here.

I am not even sure I am curious where this impression arose.

As I see it, and I am sure my Brothers here would agree, you can date and do anything around that which is legal and doesn't hurt anyone and still be regarded as a "good Freemason".


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## CLewey44 (Mar 22, 2018)

Just dont date the wives of masons and you should be ok....


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## Glen Cook (Mar 22, 2018)

CLewey44 said:


> Just dont date the wives of masons and you should be ok....


Indeed, I know of a PGM who was suspended after trial for just that.


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## David612 (Mar 22, 2018)

Warrior1256 said:


> I wonder if he has heard of a certain portion of the MM obligation that may have him confused on this subject?


That’s true, I haven’t taken that obligation however I would be quite surprised if in following basic etiquette and behaving in a respectful and dignified way with a willing, unattached person is frowned apon by the fraternity, additionally it is outside of the scope of what Freemasonry has been presented to me as thus far and is really none of the fraternities business in an official capacity.
Perhaps this is different in your jurisdiction?
However I know many master masons who enjoy dating and while their endgame may be different (TBH I have no idea as the dating lives of others is quite low on my lists of interests) I know them to be good men in my experiences with them so I wouldn’t expect them to be breaking their obligations with regularity.


I can’t imagin freemasonry as a whole being so vague on what explicitly constitutes “Morality” within its ritual considering it’s intent to allow for the participation of all men from all religious and cultural backgrounds and then in the MM degree to then come forward and say that a mason may not date, I can only speculate but that sounds at odds with what I have experienced.


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## CLewey44 (Mar 22, 2018)

Warrior1256 said:


> I wonder if he has heard of a certain portion of the MM obligation that may have him confused on this subject?



That was my initial thought but "dating" and violating the chastity of certain women is technically different. However, wives are off limits in either case lol.


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## Warrior1256 (Mar 22, 2018)

CLewey44 said:


> Just dont date the wives of masons and you should be ok....





CLewey44 said:


> However, wives are off limits in either case lol.


WHAT!!!! WHY DID NO ONE TELL ME THIS BEFORE!!!!! Just kidding, lol.


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## David612 (Mar 22, 2018)

I feel like if “dating” and “violating” are synonyms for you in this context you might be dating wrong...


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## CLewey44 (Mar 22, 2018)

Warrior1256 said:


> WHAT!!!! WHY DID NO ONE TELL ME THIS BEFORE!!!!! Just kidding, lol.


 
Lolol, well they were supposed to tell you!


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## CLewey44 (Mar 22, 2018)

And to be honest with you, the title "Freemasons can't date?" really had me confused until I read the actual post.  I had never come across a scenario where Freemasons were dating each other.


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## hanzosbm (Mar 22, 2018)

CLewey44 said:


> That was my initial thought but "dating" and violating the chastity of certain women is technically different.


Depends on the jurisdiction.  Perhaps Warrior can clarify as my KY MM obligation is a bit rusty, but if I recall, the wording isn't quite as dramatic as violating the chastity.  While it wouldn't preclude dating, in a strict observation of it, the relationship could not necessarily progress fully...if I'm not being too subtle.


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## David612 (Mar 22, 2018)

hanzosbm said:


> Depends on the jurisdiction.  Perhaps Warrior can clarify as my KY MM obligation is a bit rusty, but if I recall, the wording isn't quite as dramatic as violating the chastity.  While it wouldn't preclude dating, in a strict observation of it, the relationship could not necessarily progress fully...if I'm not being too subtle.


I’m obviously not going to look up the exact wording but it seems as an odd point to take a stand on given all the expectations placed on a brother if he follows the obligations strictly.


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## CLewey44 (Mar 22, 2018)

hanzosbm said:


> Depends on the jurisdiction.  Perhaps Warrior can clarify as my KY MM obligation is a bit rusty, but if I recall, the wording isn't quite as dramatic as violating the chastity.  While it wouldn't preclude dating, in a strict observation of it, the relationship could not necessarily progress fully...if I'm not being too subtle.


I'm picking up what you're putting down.


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## David612 (Mar 22, 2018)

CLewey44 said:


> I'm picking up what you're putting down.


No picking up!

It’s forbidden


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## Warrior1256 (Mar 23, 2018)

hanzosbm said:


> violating the chastity


These are the words.


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## hanzosbm (Mar 23, 2018)

Warrior1256 said:


> These are the words.


Interesting.  That's not how I remembered it, so I dug through my old things and found my KY obligation and it is different.  Looks like, at least at one point in time, different KY lodges were using different obligations.  Without putting the words out there, a physical relationship which went 'all the way' with one of several kinds of female relations to a brother which is, according to an online dictionary, "forbidden by law, rules, or custom".  Like I said, it's fairly ambiguous and the way it was explained to me was, as long as you're not breaking the law and nobody is upset about it, play ball!


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## Rifleman1776 (Mar 23, 2018)

Some obligations do prohibit sexual activity between a MM and the wife, widow or daughter of another MM. Pretty broad and restrictive, IMHO. In fact, many of our social activities revolve around other Brothers and their spouses. If the Brother passes, it is only natural that a single MM friend might start dating the widow and eventually have relations with her. I see no wrong in this.


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## Warrior1256 (Mar 23, 2018)

hanzosbm said:


> Looks like, at least at one point in time, different KY lodges were using different obligations.


Yeah, who would have thought, lol.


hanzosbm said:


> Like I said, it's fairly ambiguous and the way it was explained to me was, as long as you're not breaking the law and nobody is upset about it, play ball!


Pretty much the way that I see it.


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## CLewey44 (Mar 23, 2018)

Rifleman1776 said:


> Some obligations do prohibit sexual activity between a MM and the wife, widow or daughter of another MM. Pretty broad and restrictive, IMHO. In fact, many of our social activities revolve around other Brothers and their spouses. If the Brother passes, it is only natural that a single MM friend might start dating the widow and eventually have relations with her. I see no wrong in this.



I agree, I would rather my widowed wife be with a good, honest person than not and most Masons are such. Same with someone dating my daughter, I would be confident that a fellow MM would have at least a half-way decent moral compass.


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## Symthrell (Mar 23, 2018)

Rifleman1776 said:


> Some obligations do prohibit sexual activity between a MM and the wife, widow or daughter of another MM. Pretty broad and restrictive, IMHO. In fact, many of our social activities revolve around other Brothers and their spouses.



We had a situation where a young man going through the MM training for learning his obligations at our lodge announced he could not be a mason to his coach. The coach looked at him and asked why. He blushed and said he was dating the adult daughter of a member of our lodge and that they were expecting a child but weren't married. His coach asked him if they were planning to marry and he said they were. He asked if the young lady's father objected to their relationship and the answer was no. His coach told him he would be okay and that was the end of it. Well kind of, people still had fun giving him a hardtime about it for a bit. They are happily married and have a wonderful baby boy!


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## hanzosbm (Mar 23, 2018)

CLewey44 said:


> I would rather my widowed wife be with a good, honest person than not and most Masons are such. Same with someone dating my daughter...



Got pictures?  

Just kidding of course.


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## CLewey44 (Mar 23, 2018)

Shes a little underage at this point. Very underage actually.


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## Matt L (Mar 23, 2018)

It's a good thing we can't date, my wife would kill me.


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## Warrior1256 (Mar 24, 2018)

Matt L said:


> It's a good thing we can't date, my wife would kill me.


Lol....As with my wife yours is kind enough to allow our evening absences to attend to Masonic business. That's asking enough of them.


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## Capricornguy (Mar 27, 2018)

I meant can I get a tinder account and "play the field". Or would it be weird if I brought a different date to every gathering or party where you can bring someone?


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## Glen Cook (Mar 27, 2018)

Capricornguy said:


> I meant can I get a tinder account and "play the field". Or would it be weird if I brought a different date to every gathering or party where you can bring someone?


Think about whether it’s going to be a great date for a casual relationship. 

I question whether, even in the US, you will have that many occasions to take someone to events.


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## dfreybur (Mar 28, 2018)

Capricornguy said:


> I meant can I get a tinder account and "play the field". Or would it be weird if I brought a different date to every gathering or party where you can bring someone?



Early when I was dating my wife it became time to meet each other's families.  Since my relatives were across the continent I took her to lodge to meet my adoptive kinfolk.  It was the February family dinner with the theme of wives and fiancees.

Do you really want to take a casual date to meet your family?  That is EXACTLY what it means to take a date to lodge.  Unless you are serious, don't bring her.

Pay attention to the lessons taught to you in your degrees.


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## hanzosbm (Mar 28, 2018)

Capricornguy said:


> I meant can I get a tinder account and "play the field". Or would it be weird if I brought a different date to every gathering or party where you can bring someone?


Etiquette on when to bring a date to an event or not aside, when it comes to playing the field, there are no rules against it.  We are taught to live moral lives, but the definition of that is up to each man.  For some men, that might go to the extremes of celibacy.  For others, internet broadcast gangbangs are fair game.  Again, we are taught to be moral, and while there are nuances within the degrees that one could use to argue the moral line to the left or right, ultimately, it's up to you and what you feel is morally upright behavior.


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## Warrior1256 (Mar 28, 2018)

dfreybur said:


> Do you really want to take a casual date to meet your family? That is EXACTLY what it means to take a date to lodge. Unless you are serious, don't bring her.


Well, If I were single and there was an open dinner, like for officer installation, I really wouldn't see the problem with bringing a casual date.


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## Capricornguy (Mar 28, 2018)

I wouldn't bring a casual date to a meeting. I'd bring a long term person but I'm just curious if you guys look down on dating around.

I'm a young not trying to get married anytime soon. Not opposed it but I want to see the world.


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## juscurious1 (Mar 28, 2018)

Just giving you all a heads up there were some posts years back in regards to a Ricardo Wells aka Rick Wells perpetrating as a mason.He is not a good guy and it appears he is in Austin representing masons horribly. His Facebook is Rick Django Wells, forewarned is forearmed beware of the perpetrators


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## jgil1970 (Mar 29, 2018)

Rifleman1776 said:


> Some obligations do prohibit sexual activity between a MM and the wife, widow or daughter of another MM. Pretty broad and restrictive, IMHO. In fact, many of our social activities revolve around other Brothers and their spouses. If the Brother passes, it is only natural that a single MM friend might start dating the widow and eventually have relations with her. I see no wrong in this.



I believe the key is unlawful, so 2 consenting, otherwise unattached adults are good.


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## jgil1970 (Mar 29, 2018)

Glen Cook said:


> Think about whether it’s going to be a great date for a casual relationship.
> 
> I question whether, even in the US, you will have that many occasions to take someone to events.



Lots of Shrine activities are geared toward couples...


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## Warrior1256 (Mar 29, 2018)

jgil1970 said:


> I believe the key is unlawful, so 2 consenting, otherwise unattached adults are good.


Same here.


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## Keith C (Mar 29, 2018)

I was considering taking a date to my Lodge's "Ladies Appreciation banquet" last year, but then my wife wanted to go so I brought her! 

I think I should have went with the date, since now I have to attend her OES chapter Worthy Matron's banquet and it is a "Dress in the style of your favorite decade" theme.  I loath "dress up" parties.  I wonder if the 1770's would be acceptable as my favorite decade?


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## hanzosbm (Mar 29, 2018)

jgil1970 said:


> I believe the key is unlawful, so 2 consenting, otherwise unattached adults are good.


If that's what your jurisdiction uses as the wording the obligation, that's correct.  But not all do.


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## Glen Cook (Mar 30, 2018)

jgil1970 said:


> Lots of Shrine activities are geared toward couples...


Yes. That’s my experience.


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## Warrior1256 (Mar 30, 2018)

Keith C said:


> I was considering taking a date to my Lodge's "Ladies Appreciation banquet" last year, but then my wife wanted to go so I brought her!





Keith C said:


> I wonder if the 1770's would be acceptable as my favorite decade?


Lol!


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## rpbrown (Mar 30, 2018)

CLewey44 said:


> Lolol, well they were supposed to tell you!



What, you mean I can't date my wife??? She's not going to be happy


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## CLewey44 (Mar 30, 2018)

rpbrown said:


> What, you mean I can't date my wife??? She's not going to be happy



Lol, you date your girlfriend; you annoy your wife.


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## Capricornguy (Mar 30, 2018)

Are freemason girls hot or eastern star or whatever the type is? Do you two mix and match?


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## Glen Cook (Mar 30, 2018)

Capricornguy said:


> Are freemason girls hot or eastern star or whatever the type is? Do you two mix and match?


It’s not a college fraternity, sport. And most of those will be other Masons’ wives, daughters and mothers you are discussing.


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## Warrior1256 (Mar 30, 2018)

Glen Cook said:


> It’s not a college fraternity, sport. And most of those will be other Masons’ wives, daughters and mothers you are discussing.


So true!


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## David612 (Mar 30, 2018)

Capricornguy said:


> Are freemason girls hot or eastern star or whatever the type is? Do you two mix and match?


 it is indeed part of your obligation to be hot, it is an offence to be unattractive and you will be brought up on Masonic charges if the hot or not council find you below 7/10


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## Capricornguy (Mar 30, 2018)

Glen Cook said:


> It’s not a college fraternity, sport. And most of those will be other Masons’ wives, daughters and mothers you are discussing.



Oh I understand now. I wasn't sure.


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## Bloke (Mar 30, 2018)

David612 said:


> it is indeed part of your obligation to be hot, it is an offence to be unattractive and you will be brought up on Masonic charges if the hot or not council find you below 7/10


Brings new meaning to the phrase "rough ashlar"


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## Capricornguy (Mar 31, 2018)

David612 said:


> it is indeed part of your obligation to be hot, it is an offence to be unattractive and you will be brought up on Masonic charges if the hot or not council find you below 7/10



aww jeez. Even freemasonry will deny me due to my plebeian facial aesthetics.


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## David612 (Apr 1, 2018)

Capricornguy said:


> aww jeez. Even freemasonry will deny me due to my plebeian facial aesthetics.


Afraid so, we are searching for light and the last thing we need is uggos darkening our doorsteps, plus when trying to take over the world the ugly always get cast as villains and the beautiful are visionary.. we have had enough bad press.. 

I have no idea really I’m talking out of my butt, however if you are interested in freemasonry I’d recommend making contact with a local lodge and seeing if you can’t speak with someone and share a meal if possible, it great to be able to speak with someone one on one about these sorts of things and you won’t lose anything by taking that meeting and at the very least people will see you out with a good looking fella.

As a side note about achieving things prior to settling down being a deterrent to relationships, I humbly recommend meditating on this as it’s easy to get caught in the notion that the beginning of married life is the end of that independent drive and ambitiousness, I currently am 29 and have been with my wife for nearing 13 years, having a partner who understands and shares your goals (and you theirs) is truely an asset and she helps me greatly maintain my compass and I her (I hope).


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## Capricornguy (Apr 3, 2018)

David612 said:


> Afraid so, we are searching for light and the last thing we need is uggos darkening our doorsteps, plus when trying to take over the world the ugly always get cast as villains and the beautiful are visionary.. we have had enough bad press..
> 
> I have no idea really I’m talking out of my butt, however if you are interested in freemasonry I’d recommend making contact with a local lodge and seeing if you can’t speak with someone and share a meal if possible, it great to be able to speak with someone one on one about these sorts of things and you won’t lose anything by taking that meeting and at the very least people will see you out with a good looking fella.
> 
> As a side note about achieving things prior to settling down being a deterrent to relationships, I humbly recommend meditating on this as it’s easy to get caught in the notion that the beginning of married life is the end of that independent drive and ambitiousness, I currently am 29 and have been with my wife for nearing 13 years, having a partner who understands and shares your goals (and you theirs) is truely an asset and she helps me greatly maintain my compass and I her (I hope).


 Speaking of movies: Whats with all the symbolism? I always thought its just masons in the industry trolling people.

You are a phenomenon at this day and age. Happy for you.


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## CLewey44 (Apr 3, 2018)

Fellas, it's hard to convey sarcasm sometimes via text....


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