# Falsely claiming masonic membership?



## JMartinez (Oct 31, 2013)

Brethren, I was wondering if it is illegal to falsely claim masonic membership? In a way it is similar to walking around with a veteran's hat and never served, or wearing a class ring and never attended school. These examples are not extremely similar but I found them to be close enough to prove my point.


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## masonicdove (Oct 31, 2013)

I'm just a FC and still learning. I await to see what some of the seasoned brothers will say. However, that goes beyond being a mason it comes down to personal integrity and what values you stand for. As a member of a historically black Greek organization, I have heard stories of how we and other orgs have dealt with impersonators/imposters.


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## crono782 (Oct 31, 2013)

It is not really illegal to misrepresent yourself sadly. Not much legal recourse. Though if you were to forcibly try to take a falsely worn item, you might be looking at charges. 


My Freemasonry


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## Bill Lins (Nov 1, 2013)

JMartinez said:


> Brethren, I was wondering if it is illegal to falsely claim masonic membership? In a way it is similar to walking around with a veteran's hat and never served, or wearing a class ring and never attended school. These examples are not extremely similar but I found them to be close enough to prove my point.


Unless one intentionally misrepresents oneself in order to obtain financial benefits to which one would otherwise not be entitled, such as a pension or the like, no law has been broken. :sad:


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## BryanMaloney (Nov 1, 2013)

JMartinez said:


> Brethren, I was wondering if it is illegal to falsely claim masonic membership? In a way it is similar to walking around with a veteran's hat and never served, or wearing a class ring and never attended school. These examples are not extremely similar but I found them to be close enough to prove my point.



It is not illegal to wear a veteran's hat and never served, nor is it illegal to wear a class ring and never attended that school--not in the USA, at least. If one uses such appearances to commit fraud as defined by law--and merely lying is not fraud, then the fraud is illegal. Thus, it is not illegal to claim to be a Freemason without Lodge membership. In any case, there is no legal definition of Freemason in the USA. You can legally start your own "Grand Lodge", no matter how bogus it is.


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## tomasball (Nov 1, 2013)

Just to add information here, there was a law making it illegal to wear a military award like the Medal of Honor if you hadn't received it legitimately.  That law was found unconstitutional.


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## Thegentlesoldier (Nov 1, 2013)

I know of a case where 2 brothers demited without privileges and continued to do fundraisers for the lodge and keep the money for themselves and have went to funerals and wore their aprons even after being called out for not being members refused to take off their aprons and sit in the chairs. The Grandlodge has contacted them and are working with them to either be a Moson or not be a Mason, but quit misrepresenting themselves and if they do not decide within a certain timeframe they will have a lifetime bar in the state as well as potential fraud charges.


My Freemasonry


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## bupton52 (Nov 1, 2013)

There is legislation in some states that make it unlawful for a non-mason to wear the emblems.


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## tomasball (Nov 1, 2013)

Thegentlesoldier said:


> I know of a case where 2 brothers demited without privileges and continued to do fundraisers for the lodge and keep the money for themselves and have went to funerals and wore their aprons even after being called out for not being members refused to take off their aprons and sit in the chairs. The Grandlodge has contacted them and are working with them to either be a Moson or not be a Mason, but quit misrepresenting themselves and if they do not decide within a certain timeframe they will have a lifetime bar in the state as well as potential fraud charges.
> 
> 
> My Freemasonry



I'm not sure what is meant by "demitted without privileges".  In the GLoT, it is ok for demitted masons to participate in funerals, or sit in lodge.  The fundraising business, however, sounds like grounds for a lawsuit.


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## dfreybur (Nov 1, 2013)

The word is cowan.  Someone who claims to be a Mason but is not.  There are Masonic rules against making such a claim but Masonic rules do not apply to non-Masons.  Of course cowans ignore such rules.


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## MarkR (Nov 2, 2013)

bupton52 said:


> There is legislation in some states that make it unlawful for a non-mason to wear the emblems.


And given the fact that the Supreme Court struck down the Stolen Valor Act as an unconstitutional infringement on speech, such state laws would likely be struck down if challenged.



> Justice Kennedy announced a plurality opinion  â€“ joined by the Chief Justice, Justice Ginsburg, and Justice Sotomayor â€“  and concluding that the Stolen Valor Act infringes on protected speech.  The plurality reasoned that, with only narrow exceptions, content-based  restrictions on speech face strict scrutiny, and are therefore almost  always unconstitutional. False statements of fact do not fall within one  of these exceptions, and so the Stolen Valor Act can survive strict  scrutiny only if it is narrowly tailored to a compelling government  interest. The Court concluded that the Stolen Valor Act is  unconstitutional because the Government had not shown that the statute  is necessary to protect the integrity of the system of military honors â€“  the interest the Government had identified in support of the Act.


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## BroBook (Nov 2, 2013)

JMartinez said:


> Brethren, I was wondering if it is illegal to falsely claim masonic membership? In a way it is similar to walking around with a veteran's hat and never served, or wearing a class ring and never attended school. These examples are not extremely similar but I found them to be close enough to prove my point.



Bad thought what if after detecting the impostor you endowed him or them with something that 
Would make them even more apparent !!! No violence please !!!


My Freemasonry


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## laruewhite (Jan 24, 2014)

Does that apply to starting a AF&am lodge?(clandestine)

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## CStevenson (Jan 24, 2014)

I know this is not the OP's main point but I have a thought.  

Not everyone who wears a Veteran's hat or a Mason's symbol is trying to pose as such.  I have worn many professional football team jerseys around with out the intention of deceiving people that I am a professional athlete.  My father is a Vietnam vet and many times I wore many of his service items to school with pride.  Again, I was not trying to fool anyone into thinking I was a vet myself.  I am a fan, plain and simple.  Would we want to keep fans of Freemasonry from publicly showing their support?  Now if one attempts to deceive others to gain access to information which they should not have, well that should be protected by a properly tiled lodge room and well educated brothers.  The worst situation is one who poses as a Mason and attempts to give Freemasonry a bad name.  I am no lawyer but I do believe that is slander and can be prosecuted.  Just my 2 cents on the matter.


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## ThorsTrowel (Jan 24, 2014)

You are never JUST a Fellowcraft...but it understand your comment.


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## dfreybur (Jan 24, 2014)

laruewhite said:


> Does that apply to starting a AF&am lodge?(clandestine)



Many clandestine GLs are registered as non-profit corporations in their state of origin.  As such they are legal according to state laws.

We also use the term "laws" referring to our own constitutions and bylaws.  They are not legal in this Masonic sense.

Asking if it's "legal" is ambiguous for this reason.  It's legal to form a non-profit corporation as long as the words are not trademarked in that state.  Many states have declared our words long since public domain.  It's not legal as far as our constitutions and bylaws are concerned, which is why these organizations are clandestine.


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## laruewhite (Jan 24, 2014)

I am torn apart inside. if I go somewhere else will everything I have achieved be thrown away?

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## BryanMaloney (Jan 24, 2014)

bupton52 said:


> There is legislation in some states that make it unlawful for a non-mason to wear the emblems.



Which states? I'd love to read those statutes directly.


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## BryanMaloney (Jan 24, 2014)

laruewhite said:


> I am torn apart inside. if I go somewhere else will everything I have achieved be thrown away?



It's very simple. There are only two legitimate Masonic organizations in the USA: PHA and the "mainstream" Grand Lodges (with all that appends from these two).


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## laruewhite (Jan 24, 2014)

That doesn't answers my question.

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## crono782 (Jan 24, 2014)

laruewhite said:


> I am torn apart inside. if I go somewhere else will everything I have achieved be thrown away?



Not necessarily. A lot of GLs have a "healing" process for transferring over.


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## laruewhite (Jan 24, 2014)

I was raised to mm 4 months ago.just got royal arch and Knights Templar.

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## laruewhite (Jan 24, 2014)

Do you have any info about this healing process?

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## dfreybur (Jan 24, 2014)

laruewhite said:


> Do you have any info about this healing process?



It's going to vary from jurisdiction to jurisdiction so descriptions by brothers who have been healed can give you a general idea of what is involved.  To find out for sure contact a regular and recognized lodge near you.  You're in Los Angeles so that's the MWPHGLofCA or GLofCA.


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## bupton52 (Jan 24, 2014)

laruewhite said:


> Do you have any info about this healing process?
> 
> Sent From My Freemasonry Pro App




As dfreybur mentioned, it will vary from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. If you send me a PM I may be able to put you in touch with either a brother in your jurisdiction that will be able to explain the specifics.


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## laruewhite (Jan 24, 2014)

Not shy! 

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## bupton52 (Jan 24, 2014)

laruewhite said:


> Not shy!
> 
> Sent From My Freemasonry Pro App



I removed your phone number.


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## tomasball (Jan 25, 2014)

In the GLoTx, there is no process for "healing" someone initiated in a clandestine lodge.  The only available route is for the man to sever all ties with the clandestine body, and start over from scratch by petitioning a lodge belonging to the GLoTx. Can anybody inform us whether any of the so-called "mainstream" grand lodges have any different philosophy on the matter?


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## bupton52 (Jan 25, 2014)

tomasball said:


> In the GLoTx, there is no process for "healing" someone initiated in a clandestine lodge.  The only available route is for the man to sever all ties with the clandestine body, and start over from scratch by petitioning a lodge belonging to the GLoTx. Can anybody inform us whether any of the so-called "mainstream" grand lodges have any different philosophy on the matter?



That is the process across the board as far as I know. 

Sincerely and Fraternally


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## dfreybur (Jan 25, 2014)

tomasball said:


> In the GLoTx, there is no process for "healing" someone initiated in a clandestine lodge.  The only available route is for the man to sever all ties with the clandestine body, and start over from scratch by petitioning a lodge belonging to the GLoTx. Can anybody inform us whether any of the so-called "mainstream" grand lodges have any different philosophy on the matter?



The GL of Hawaii has adopted a healing ceremony.  A description was posted on this forum a few months ago.


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## Levelhead (Jun 7, 2014)

Frustrating at the least. My wifes step dad wears a gold master mason ring. Now he DOES NOT KNOW IM A MASON. And since in a fellowcraft (not for much longer) i dont wear a ring or am allowed to until im raised.

It just gets me a little mad because he wears it. I had asked him one day " Hey are you a freemason"? He starts to walk away and waves hand and says "yea i gotta go down and fill my paperwork out" laughing like ITS THAT EASY!

I work hard and i cant wear a ring and it pisses me off that he wears a master mason ring and dont even know the process of becoming a mason.

When i get raised soon i will have my ring (which i already ordered) and if he comments on it or asks im going to say (Yea i wear it because i am actually a real mason and it means something, you wear it cause you think your something your not".

Sorry for the rant but we as True Free and Accepted Masons work hard to get raised and volunteer and help out, to have the privilege to wear that ring with pleasure to myself and honor to the fraternity.


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## MarkR (Jun 10, 2014)

BryanMaloney said:


> Which states? I'd love to read those statutes directly.


I've just recently become aware that Minnesota has such a statute.  I still don't think it would pass muster if challenged, and am not aware of it having been enforced any time since I've been a Mason. It reads:



> *333.135 IMPROPER USE OF INSIGNIA.*
> Every person who shall willfully wear the insignia or rosette of the Military Order of the Loyal Legion of the United States, or the badge or button of the American Legion, the Veterans of Foreign Wars, the Disabled American Veterans of the World War, or of any other veterans' organization, or any similitude thereof; or who shall willfully wear any badge, emblem, or insignia pertaining to the order of Masons, Odd Fellows, Knights of Pythias, or any other secret order or society, or any similitude thereof; or who shall use any such badge, button, or insignia to obtain aid or assistance, or who shall use the name of any such order or society for gain, unless entitled to so use the same under the constitution, bylaws, rules, and regulations of such order, is guilty of a misdemeanor.


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## Warrior1256 (Aug 17, 2014)

crono782 said:


> It is not really illegal to misrepresent yourself sadly. Not much legal recourse. Though if you were to forcibly try to take a falsely worn item, you might be looking at charges.
> 
> 
> My Freemasonry


I saw a story on this forum or another, not sure which. Anyway, the brother said that he was traveling and two men approached him and stated that if he could not answer some of their questions to their satisfaction they would have to decide whether or not to ALLOW him to keep the Masonic ring that he was wearing. I know that as a Freemason that I am supposed to practice peace and brotherly love, but if I were in that situation my reply would be "This ring is my personal property and I have earned the right to wear it and if you want this ring you will have to TAKE it!".


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## Levelhead (Aug 17, 2014)

Well some people wear a jordan jersey and arent jordan nor play basketball...

Im all for non masons NOT wearing a masonic ring. Try them , make a "fool" out of them, then walk away in peace!


Sent From Bro Carl's Freemasonry Pro App


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## GKA (Jul 31, 2015)

If it was illegal to claim Masonic membership, there would be no point in enforcing it, what authority would the accused recognize?
I feel sorry for someone who needs inclusion so bad as to fake acceptance.


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## Rifleman1776 (Aug 1, 2015)

tomasball said:


> In the GLoT, it is ok for demitted masons to participate in funerals, or sit in lodge


 
That, to me, is simply bizzare.


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## Glen Cook (Aug 1, 2015)

Rifleman1776 said:


> That, to me, is simply bizzare.


It's relatively common, though there may be limitations  on how long he may do so or how many times he may attend a particular lodge.


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## Glen Cook (Aug 1, 2015)

Deleted


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## Bill Lins (Aug 1, 2015)

Rifleman1776 said:


> That, to me, is simply bizzare.


Brethren demit from their Lodges for any number of reasons. An "unaffiliated" Mason is still a Brother- his action is voluntary, not imposed upon him as a punishment. I see no reason that he shouldn't be allowed to participate in the funeral of a deceased Brother. Further, I see no reason that he shouldn't have the freedom to move his membership from one Lodge to another, should he so choose.

Under our jurisdiction, he may visit a Lodge up to three times without petitioning for membership. Let's say that a Brother decides that he is not a good fit in his particular Lodge, or is not finding what he feels that he should get from Masonry in his Lodge, and demits. He can visit as many Lodges as he likes, up to three times each, until he finds one that suits him. While it would, to me, be preferable for him to maintain his membership in his Lodge while looking for one that he prefers, and then transfer his membership, our Law doesn't require him to do so.


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## Ripcord22A (Aug 1, 2015)

Bill_Lins77488 said:


> Brethren demit from their Lodges for any number of reasons. An "unaffiliated" Mason is still a Brother- his action is voluntary, not imposed upon him as a punishment. I see no reason that he shouldn't be allowed to participate in the funeral of a deceased Brother. Further, I see no reason that he shouldn't have the freedom to move his membership from one Lodge to another, should he so choose.
> 
> Under our jurisdiction, he may visit a Lodge up to three times without petitioning for membership. Let's say that a Brother decides that he is not a good fit in his particular Lodge, or is not finding what he feels that he should get from Masonry in his Lodge, and demits. He can visit as many Lodges as he likes, up to three times each, until he finds one that suits him. While it would, to me, be preferable for him to maintain his membership in his Lodge while looking for one that he prefers, and then transfer his membership, our Law doesn't require him to do so.


Same in new mexico


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## Rifleman1776 (Aug 2, 2015)

In my opinion, still bizzare. A demit is quitting. Even changing lodges, one is 'out' until voted into the new lodge. I have been through it. Years ago I demited out of all York Rite bodies. It is unlikely any would allow me to visit.


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## Mindovermatter Ace (Mar 8, 2016)

In many states, it is illegal to impersonate or deceive someone into thinking you are a mason. In the past some people have been arrested, prosecuted, convicted, jailed and fined for impersonating a Mason. Because Grand Lodges do not put as much effort into the prevention of spurious mason, it's become a growing epidemic in America.


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## Glen Cook (Mar 8, 2016)

Mindovermatter Ace said:


> In many states, it is illegal to impersonate or deceive someone into thinking you are a mason. In the past some people have been arrested, prosecuted, convicted, jailed and fined for impersonating a Mason. Because Grand Lodges do not put as much effort into the prevention of spurious mason, it's become a growing epidemic in America.


After Alvarez, such statutes likely are invalid.


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## Mindovermatter Ace (Mar 8, 2016)

Glen Cook said:


> After Alvarez, such statutes likely are invalid.



Alvarez? I'm not familiar with that.


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## Glen Cook (Mar 8, 2016)

Mindovermatter Ace said:


> Alvarez? I'm not familiar with that.


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Alvarez


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## Rifleman1776 (Mar 8, 2016)

Mindovermatter Ace said:


> In many states, it is illegal to impersonate or deceive someone into thinking you are a mason. In the past some people have been arrested, prosecuted, convicted, jailed and fined for impersonating a Mason. Because Grand Lodges do not put as much effort into the prevention of spurious mason, it's become a growing epidemic in America.


 
I find that highly unlikely. I believe you have been misinformed. A state would not bother to make laws regarding membership in a private organization. Please list those states which you claim have such laws and post just one of those supposed laws.


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## Warrior1256 (Mar 8, 2016)

Glen Cook said:


> After Alvarez, such statutes likely are invalid.


Excellent point.


Rifleman1776 said:


> I find that highly unlikely. I believe you have been misinformed. A state would not bother to make laws regarding membership in a private organization. Please list those states which you claim have such laws and post just one of those supposed laws.


I,too, would like to see this.


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## Glen Cook (Mar 8, 2016)

Rifleman1776 said:


> I find that highly unlikely. I believe you have been misinformed. A state would not bother to make laws regarding membership in a private organization. Please list those states which you claim have such laws and post just one of those supposed laws.


Although the rather harsh response was not directed at me, this would come close:

http://law.justia.com/codes/utah/2006/title76/76_0a070.html


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## Warrior1256 (Mar 8, 2016)

Glen Cook said:


> Although the rather harsh response was not directed at me, this would come close:
> 
> http://law.justia.com/codes/utah/2006/title76/76_0a070.html


Thanks for sharing this brother.


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## Mindovermatter Ace (Mar 8, 2016)

Glen Cook said:


> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Alvarez




Thanks. It reads, although they couldn't enforce the stolen valor law, Alvarez was still imprisoned on fraud charges. I guess I would be difficult to prove clandestine organizations are attempting to defraud when many believe they are acting in good faith.


Aaron Christopher


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## Mindovermatter Ace (Mar 8, 2016)

Rifleman1776 said:


> I find that highly unlikely. I believe you have been misinformed. A state would not bother to make laws regarding membership in a private organization. Please list those states which you claim have such laws and post just one of those supposed laws.




Actually there are laws specifically for masons in the states of New York and Kentucky.

Are you aware that this has been taken to court numerous times in courts across the country?

The most prominent one being the Matthew Thomson fraud case.


Aaron Christopher


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## Rifleman1776 (Mar 8, 2016)

Mindovermatter Ace said:


> Actually there are laws specifically for masons in the states of New York and Kentucky.
> 
> Are you aware that this has been taken to court numerous times in courts across the country?
> 
> ...


 No. I am not aware of and of that. Time spent searching for something about your comment came up with nothing . Please provide specifics.


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## Joe Ellis (Mar 8, 2016)

JMartinez said:


> Brethren, I was wondering if it is illegal to falsely claim masonic membership? In a way it is similar to walking around with a veteran's hat and never served, or wearing a class ring and never attended school. These examples are not extremely similar but I found them to be close enough to prove my point.



It is possible, within England, to face a charge of false misrepresentation. If you say you are something and are not, in English law, it is illegal.


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## Glen Cook (Mar 8, 2016)

Rh


Mindovermatter Ace said:


> Actually there are laws specifically for masons in the states of New York and Kentucky.
> 
> Are you aware that this has been taken to court numerous times in courts across the country?
> 
> ...


As you may surmise, I am familiar with Thompson. In that case, it was common law fraud, as he had taken money. Now that could apply to many of the bogus GLs


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## Glen Cook (Mar 8, 2016)

Mindovermatter Ace said:


> Thanks. It reads, although they couldn't enforce the stolen valor law, Alvarez was still imprisoned on fraud charges. I guess I would be difficult to prove clandestine organizations are attempting to defraud when many believe they are acting in good faith.
> 
> 
> Aaron Christopher
> ...


The topic here was simply claiming you are a Mason. I believe selling the degrees could be subject to a fraud prosecution. See _Thompson_


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## Mindovermatter Ace (Mar 9, 2016)

Glen Cook said:


> The topic here was simply claiming you are a Mason. I believe selling the degrees could be subject to a fraud prosecution. See _Thompson_




Noted. But are not degrees essentially sold because you incur a fee  prior to receiving them? 

My perception is that spurious Freemasonry is fraudulent in the sense that people are unwilling victims and purchase degrees with no merit in the recognized Masonic world, and are operating on the boundaries of loopholes between Masonic jurisprudence and common law. 

There are plenty of courts that have scrutinized spurious freemasonry while others have been conservative. 




Aaron Christopher 
Cervantes #5 
Grand Lodge of Louisiana F&AM


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## The Traveling Man (Mar 14, 2016)

Rifleman1776 said:


> I find that highly unlikely. I believe you have been misinformed. A state would not bother to make laws regarding membership in a private organization. Please list those states which you claim have such laws and post just one of those supposed laws.



He is not misinformed. Many states have similar laws.

Michigan Law states: 

Unlawful Use of Name and Insignia:
Whenever there shall be an actual or threatened violation of the above act, an application may be made to the court or judge having jurisdiction to issue an injunction upon notice to the defendant or defendants of not less than 5 days, for an injunction so restraining such actual or threatened violation, or if it shall appear to such court or justice that the defendant or defendants is or are in fact using the name of a military, ex-military, patriotic, benevolent, humane, fraternal or charitable corporation or organization, or a name so nearly resembling it as to be calculated to deceive the public, or is wearing or exhibiting the recognized or established badge, insignia or emblem of such corporation or organization without authority thereof and in violation of the above act, an injunction may be issued by said court or justice enjoining or restraining such actual or threatened violation, without requiring proof that any person has in fact been misled or deceived thereby.

There are a few other laws in Michigan with similar wordings, and a few laws pertaining specifically to Freemasonry.


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## dfreybur (Mar 15, 2016)

There may be laws, but public prosecutors are not interested in what to them appear to be trademark battles.

Our jurisdictions have tiny legal budgets and I would not have that otherwise.  We lack the ability to drive out clandestine jurisdictions for financial reasons everywhere, legal reasons depending on the state.  I would rather have this happen than GL have the legal budget to go around suing random folks.


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## Glen Cook (Mar 15, 2016)

dfreybur said:


> There may be laws, but public prosecutors are not interested in what to them appear to be trademark battles.
> 
> Our jurisdictions have tiny legal budgets and I would not have that otherwise.  We lack the ability to drive out clandestine jurisdictions for financial reasons everywhere, legal reasons depending on the state.  I would rather have this happen than GL have the legal budget to go around suing random folks.


Yeah. We leave that up to GEKT.


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## Derek Harvey (Apr 11, 2016)

That's horrible


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## Bill Lins (Apr 11, 2016)

Joe Ellis said:


> It is possible, within England, to face a charge of false misrepresentation. If you say you are something and are not, in English law, it is illegal.


In this country, one has to prove an intent to commit fraud. Simple misrepresentation by itself is not enough.


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## Ripcord22A (Apr 11, 2016)

Bill_Lins77488 said:


> In this country, one has to prove an intent to commit fraud. Simple misrepresentation by itself is not enough.


 That is why most Stolen Valor Cases never get prosecuted.  Even the ones that you have on camera talking about well Im Sgt maj So-inSo and you better speak to me as such.  Unless you can prove that they represented themselves as a member of the Military, or in the case of this discussion a Mason, falsely with a direct intent to defraud someone, like the case of the person who wore a military uniform on Black Friday in order to attempt to get a military discount on top of the already discounted prices, you cant do anything.


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## Glen Cook (Apr 11, 2016)

jdmadsenCraterlake211 said:


> That is why most Stolen Valor Cases never get prosecuted.  Even the ones that you have on camera talking about well Im Sgt maj So-inSo and you better speak to me as such.  Unless you can prove that they represented themselves as a member of the Military, or in the case of this discussion a Mason, falsely with a direct intent to defraud someone, like the case of the person who wore a military uniform on Black Friday in order to attempt to get a military discount on top of the already discounted prices, you cant do anything.


I cannot tell you to take 'em out back and thump 'em.


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## Dontrell Stroman (Apr 12, 2016)

I heard years ago a person that impersonated to be a freemason had problems. Maybe a PH thing, I don't know

Sent from my 831C using My Freemasonry Pro mobile app


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## Warrior1256 (Apr 13, 2016)

Glen Cook said:


> I cannot tell you to take 'em out back and thump 'em.


Unfortunately, lol.


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## acjohnson53 (Apr 14, 2016)

People do it all the time, claiming to be who they are not...(SMDH)Till you call them on it...


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## Warrior1256 (Apr 15, 2016)

acjohnson53 said:


> People do it all the time, claiming to be who they are not...(SMDH)Till you call them on it...


Almost as bad are the "title hunters", people that will join the York Rite, Scottish Rite, etc. and then never attend a single function.


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## The Traveling Man (Apr 15, 2016)

I ran into a true cowan on Facebook the other day.  He was on a Masonic page looking for Brothers in TX. A few Brothers chimed in. I noticed his wording implied he may not be a Mason, despite his default pic being the S&C so I spoke on it. He changed his pic immediately. He said he wasn't a Mason. I don't know why but I decided to check out his page. He had lots of symbology on his page. Then I run across a pic of him wearing a Masonic pendant. Then it got worse and I found a pic of his tattoo, a big S&C on his arm. So I question him and he says he isn't a Mason but he represents it. WHAT!?? The conversation took a turn for the worse. He got defensive and said he doesn't have to explain himself because he only answers to God. . . Only thing worse than a Clandestine Mason is a person who has no ties at all trying to deceive people. I went from wanting to help him find a Lodge to telling him there's no place in Masonry for a person like him. He ended up leaving the group.


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## Warrior1256 (Apr 15, 2016)

The Traveling Man said:


> Only thing worse than a Clandestine Mason is a person who has no ties at all trying to deceive people.


Totally agree!


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## TonyStarks357 (Mar 21, 2017)

bupton52 said:


> There is legislation in some states that make it unlawful for a non-mason to wear the emblems.



What states?


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## TonyStarks357 (Mar 21, 2017)

The Traveling Man said:


> I ran into a true cowan on Facebook the other day.  He was on a Masonic page looking for Brothers in TX. A few Brothers chimed in. I noticed his wording implied he may not be a Mason, despite his default pic being the S&C so I spoke on it. He changed his pic immediately. He said he wasn't a Mason. I don't know why but I decided to check out his page. He had lots of symbology on his page. Then I run across a pic of him wearing a Masonic pendant. Then it got worse and I found a pic of his tattoo, a big S&C on his arm. So I question him and he says he isn't a Mason but he represents it. WHAT!?? The conversation took a turn for the worse. He got defensive and said he doesn't have to explain himself because he only answers to God. . . Only thing worse than a Clandestine Mason is a person who has no ties at all trying to deceive people. I went from wanting to help him find a Lodge to telling him there's no place in Masonry for a person like him. He ended up leaving the group.




Someone who wears our emblems should KNOW that they will be approached by a brother in public.  A lot of these eavesdroppers won't wear anything publicly, but some will.  I've taken a ring or three from some false advertisers.  It's crazy how these same people are too scared or simply unwilling to go through what it takes to be a MM.  I live in Colorado now, but PHA don't play in Texas, nor D.C.  Some people are just trying to hide behind our symbols to achieve some unknown purpose, but they assume the symbols give them status. Sad.


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## Elexir (Mar 21, 2017)

TonyStarks357 said:


> Someone who wears our emblems should KNOW that they will be approached by a brother in public.  A lot of these eavesdroppers won't wear anything publicly, but some will.  I've taken a ring or three from some false advertisers.  It's crazy how these same people are too scared or simply unwilling to go through what it takes to be a MM.  I live in Colorado now, but PHA don't play in Texas, nor D.C.  Some people are just trying to hide behind our symbols to achieve some unknown purpose, but they assume the symbols give them status. Sad.



And how do you know that he is a brother?


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## Glen Cook (Mar 21, 2017)

TonyStarks357 said:


> Someone who wears our emblems should KNOW that they will be approached by a brother in public.  A lot of these eavesdroppers won't wear anything publicly, but some will.  I've taken a ring or three from some false advertisers.  It's crazy how these same people are too scared or simply unwilling to go through what it takes to be a MM.  I live in Colorado now, but PHA don't play in Texas, nor D.C.  Some people are just trying to hide behind our symbols to achieve some unknown purpose, but they assume the symbols give them status. Sad.


And just how did you take the ring?


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## Glen Cook (Mar 21, 2017)

TonyStarks357 said:


> What states?


Do a search for use of fraternal emblem prohibited.


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## Warrior1256 (Mar 21, 2017)

TonyStarks357 said:


> I've taken a ring or three from some false advertisers.


You've TAKEN it from them?


Glen Cook said:


> And just how did you take the ring?


I'd like to know this also. If someone would try to take my personal property from me, whether they think that I am entitled to it or not, they are going to have a real problem!


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## Ripcord22A (Mar 21, 2017)

TonyStarks357 said:


> I've taken a ring or three from some false aadvertisers.


Uhhhh NO!  Just because hes wearing a ring doesnt mean hes "false advertising"  and even if he is its not illegal to, except in some states, but in all states its illegal to take(steal) something from another!  Very unmasonic! Amd if i was in your jurisdiction I would report you to your WM, Wardens and DDGM!


Sent from my LG-H918 using My Freemasonry mobile app


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## Warrior1256 (Mar 21, 2017)

Ripcord22A said:


> in all states its illegal to take(steal) something from another! Very unmasonic!


Absolutely!


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## TonyStarks357 (Mar 21, 2017)

Elexir said:


> And how do you know that he is a brother?


I hope you're not serious.  I've been a Master Mason for 22 years. I'll leave it at that.


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## TonyStarks357 (Mar 21, 2017)

Glen Cook said:


> And just how did you take the ring?



I asked them to give it to me, and they did. I don't know where  or how some of you brothers handle things.  But I was raised a certain way, and things were done a certain way.  At the end of the day, once I give the profane a full explanation of what he is doing by wearing that ring, they give it to me. Always. Besides, my masonry is not for play.  Maybe I joined the wrong site because I sense a lot of sensitivity reading through these forums.


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## TonyStarks357 (Mar 21, 2017)

Ripcord22A said:


> Uhhhh NO!  Just because hes wearing a ring doesnt mean hes "false advertising"  and even if he is its not illegal to, except in some states, but in all states its illegal to take(steal) something from another!  Very unmasonic! Amd if i was in your jurisdiction I would report you to your WM, Wardens and DDGM!
> 
> 
> Sent from my LG-H918 using My Freemasonry mobile app



I can respect your opinion.  However, You obviously don't have ANY idea about who you're talking to, and it wouldn't make a difference WHO you went and "reported" me to in my District. 22 years in the craft, young man.  Anyone you would have or want to go and "talk" to would know why it was taken.  Besides, the violator always, ALWYAS gave it to me, after I explained why they should not wear it.  Maybe you consider Masonry your country club, but there are MANY places in this country where it would not be wise to wear Masonic regalia and you're NOT a Mason.  I'm still at a crossroads about the whole, "I would report you..." statement. Lol.


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## Bro. Stewart P.M. (Mar 21, 2017)

I can see this thread tracking out of "due bounds" quickly. All heed this "good council" and let's tone it down a notch or three.


Stewart M. Owings, 32 °, P∴ M∴
Lead Moderator


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## Glen Cook (Mar 22, 2017)

TonyStarks357 said:


> I asked them to give it to me, and they did. I don't know where  or how some of you brothers handle things.  But I was raised a certain way, and things were done a certain way.  At the end of the day, once I give the profane a full explanation of what he is doing by wearing that ring, they give it to me. Always. Besides, my masonry is not for play.  Maybe I joined the wrong site because I sense a lot of sensitivity reading through these forums.


And you've done this in Colorado?

And I assure you, my Masonry is not for play. That is why some of us are bothered by your statements.  Yes, there is a sensitivity to what, at first glance, may be bragging of illegal activity by a Mason. We don't play at Freemasonry. 

To respond to another statement, no, we don't know who you are. Equally, you don't know who we are. I'd encourage you to hang around a bit and get to know us before you jump in with both feet and imply we play at Masonry, are too sensitive, and are not as experienced as you in the fraternity. It's always good to pause and look around when you are the new kid on the block.


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## Warrior1256 (Mar 22, 2017)

TonyStarks357 said:


> Besides, the violator always, ALWYAS gave it to me, after I explained why they should not wear it.


O.K., this is a little different and better than taking it by force or threat there of!


Glen Cook said:


> And I assure you, my Masonry is not for play. That is why some of us are bothered by your statements. Yes, there is a sensitivity to what, at first glance, may be bragging of illegal activity by a Mason. We don't play at Freemasonry.
> 
> To respond to another statement, no, we don't know who you are. Equally, you don't know who we are. I'd encourage you to hang around a bit and get to know us before you jump in with both feet and imply we play at Masonry, are too sensitive, and are not as experienced as you in the fraternity. It's always good to pause and look around when you are the new kid on the block.


Absolutely!


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## Warrior1256 (Mar 22, 2017)

TonyStarks357 said:


> but there are MANY places in this country where it would not be wise to wear Masonic regalia and you're NOT a Mason.


I also respect YOUR opinion Brother. However, I wonder how anyone that does not know me could know for sure I am an MM. I wear a Masonic ring but if someone I don't know from Adam came up to me on the street and started asking me to reveal lawful Masonic information (trial) I would absolutely refuse to co- operate. I would tell them that I am, indeed, a MM but if that was not good enough for them, tough.


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## Keith C (Mar 22, 2017)

Warrior1256 said:


> I also respect YOUR opinion Brother. However, I wonder how anyone that does not know me could know for sure I am an MM. I wear a Masonic ring but if someone I don't know from Adam came up to me on the street and started asking me to reveal lawful Masonic information (trial) I would absolutely refuse to co- operate. I would tell them that I am, indeed, a MM but if that was not good enough for them, tough.



I would do the same.  The admonition is to not reveal secrets to those who have not been proven to be Masons (from GL recognized by your GL).  I never swore nor was I instructed to hunt down cowens and take any masonic items from them, just not to discuss secrets or let them in an open lodge.  

I find it audacious that someone, who I have no knowledge of their regularity vis the GL of PA, would demand proof from me or attempt to take my ring or lapel pin.  As I would not ever discuss the secrets with someone I just met in public even if I recognized them as the RWGM of PA Masons, why would I feel the need to try them or allow them to try me because of a piece of jewelry?


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## Ripcord22A (Mar 22, 2017)

I think of ur GM came up and griped/asked u something you would answer accordingly...lol...or actually maybe not as it might be a test.....lol

Sent from my LG-H918 using My Freemasonry mobile app


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## Warrior1256 (Mar 22, 2017)

Keith C said:


> I would do the same.  The admonition is to not reveal secrets to those who have not been proven to be Masons (from GL recognized by your GL).  I never swore nor was I instructed to hunt down cowens and take any masonic items from them, just not to discuss secrets or let them in an open lodge.
> 
> I find it audacious that someone, who I have no knowledge of their regularity vis the GL of PA, would demand proof from me or attempt to take my ring or lapel pin.  As I would not ever discuss the secrets with someone I just met in public even if I recognized them as the RWGM of PA Masons, why would I feel the need to try them or allow them to try me because of a piece of jewelry?


Absolutely agree 100%.


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## Blake Bowden (Mar 23, 2017)

OP from 2013....thread closed.


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