# Dealing with lazy EA's



## Blake Bowden (Jan 20, 2012)

Our Lodge has a handful of EA's who attend meetings, but fail to continue, much less finish their work and many of them have gone over their one year deadline. How should they be dealt with?

Ironically, when I was first initiated, EA's and FC's couldn't attend a stated meeting as business was conducted in a MM's Lodge. At the time, I was all for removing that requirement, but now, I think it may of been a good thing. Why should someone who fails to complete the work and pay dues, have virtually the same benefits?


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## robert leachman (Jan 20, 2012)

Is anyone working with them the nights they are at lodge?
Is anyone working with them through out the rest of the week/month?  
If they are stuck at a certain point, maybe attending an EA degree would help them "make it all click!"


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## Txmason32 (Jan 20, 2012)

while attending the meeting is great FUN  we are talking almost 3 hrs with the meal and chit chat that they could have used to find the point where it all clicked so to speak . Have you thought about calling an EA lodge where EAs are invited and you confer a mock degree ? is that acceptable in Texas ? it may help them get interested in the work again ?


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## coachn (Jan 20, 2012)

Please do not confuse "entitlements" with "benefits."  They are entitled to some things.  They have yet to do the Work, so they shall not benefit one bit.


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## Ashlar (Jan 20, 2012)

We have several EAs' ourselves . We open and do all business on the MM degree and I refuse to vote to change it .

As one of the Lodge mentors I was asked to make calls and push them into studying their catechisms . I will not push anyone into anything . I gave them my phone number and address , I told them I am here for them when they are ready , I am not going to waste my time calling them and begging them to study . We all came to Freemasonry of our own free will and accord , we progressed through the degrees of our own free will and accord  , I called my mentor when I was ready to study , not the other way around  . If they do not want to be Masons , then let them go on their merry way .

 I know many see it differently but I went through the same degrees they have , I took the time to call my mentor and ASK for his help , I worked my way through the degrees , I recognized that the brethren took time out of their lives to come and confer the degrees and/or sit on the sidelines  So I thought , if they can take the time out of their lives , then I should return the favor by studying . I did not not need to be "pushed" because I wanted to be a Master Mason .

Just my 2 pence .


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## JJones (Jan 20, 2012)

I was going to post almost the same thing as Ashlar.  The EA always came across to me as the stage in Masonry where the wheat gets separated from the chaff.

I've noticed that if someone isn't interested in learning what they need in order to advance, it will often be the most apparent with EAs.  I say if they aren't interested, let them be.


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## filmgeekben (Jan 20, 2012)

I agree with what Robert said. I have just recently been passed after a couple months as an EA. In that time I sat in lodge once and attended an EA degree.

One night the lodge opened on the third degree and a brother(MM) sat with me and we practiced the EA catechism. That was very helpful in inspiring me to nail the proficiency and continue on.


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## Benton (Jan 20, 2012)

I'm inclined to agree with the above. If they don't want to come, don't make them. You can invite them all you want, but if they aren't interested, you'll just be forcing them to do something they don't want to do, and as soon as that push disappears, they will too. You won't be doing either yourself or the individual much benefit. 

Send them an invite, email, text, sure, but don't bother begging/persuading, etc, its wasted effort.


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## eagle1966 (Jan 20, 2012)

I tend to agree with all that has been said here. My take on Lazy EAs is "you can't push a rope" if they don't have the desire or drive to complete the work needed then either it was not made clear in investigation  the amount of time reqired or this was not what they were expecting.


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## cleighty (Jan 20, 2012)

As an EA myself currently our lodge will not open in the first degree unless there is a a reason for EA's to attend. Personally that gives me a reason to finish my last two degrees. I was able to learn my work in a couple of months performed my proficiency very well I even helped my examiner in a few places. I am anxiously waiting for my next degree in a week and a half and start studying the work for my FC. 

If they can attend lodge as an EA what is there incintive to finish in a timely fashion. Don't get me wrong they should want and desire to learn and do there work in a fashion that brings them closer to the brotherhood.


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## MikeMay (Jan 21, 2012)

My two cents...just from thinking about a possible solution...from the very beginning, make sure candidates are not overburdened with their vocation and family life before they are initiated.  Some good men might be great candidates, but it may not be the right time for them to begin the journey of masonry.

Again just my two cents.


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## s_pike (Jan 21, 2012)

Here's my outlook on lazy EA's. 
I Became a Mason in 2008.  I was, and still am working 12 to 14 hour days...  a lot of the weeks I work(ed) 6 days and I do work a lot of 7 day work weeks too. With that said, I always found the time to call my instructor to set up a study day so I could work on my proficiency. Now, it almost took me the entire year to complete my EA work, but I did it!  I was exhausted but determined to become a Master Mason and being proficient in the EA degree was my first step.  I was not permitted into the Lodge during Stated Meetings because at that time, only MM's could attend the business meetings... That made me want it even more!   I wanted to be a part of the whole process of our Lodges daily activities and I was determined to get to my goals. If its easy to attain.... It's probably not worth diddly squat in the end!  Hard work ALWAYS pays off!  I tell that to every EA that walks through our doors.  Only the men who truely want what Masonry can bring into their lives will make every effort to attain their goals. We can't force anyone to do anything... It's all up to them!


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## Ashlar (Jan 21, 2012)

JJones said:


> The EA always came across to me as the stage in Masonry where the wheat gets separated from the chaff.


 
Exactly , this is where we find those who want to be MASONS and those who do not want to work for it .

On a side note , I deliver many lectures or confer the degree myself in the EA (well , all three degrees) and I can tell by the look in their eyes who are serious and who we will never see again .  You can see the boredom , the disconnect , the lack of enthusiasm in their eyes and when the degree work is over , the lodge closed and the candidate on his way home , I will tell the Craft that we will never see them again . You can tell who is hungry for Masonry and who is not . I have been correct in all my assessments of candidates save one , he really surprised me .

Funny story ... my Father-in-law , who gave me my petition and top signed it , thought I would be one of those who would not take it serious and never return my EA catechism . Here I am , many years later  a Past Master and current Master of my Mother lodge , SW in my second lodge and future DDGM in my district . I guess I showed him .


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## hlnelson (Jan 21, 2012)

If these EAs are lazy now what makes you think they'll change if or when they are raised. If their vocation, family obligations or anything else is a problem with their time for study, practice or meetings its up to them to let the WM or lodge know. 
These are grown men who came I suppose of their own free will and accord. I wouldn't waist my time trying get grown men to do what they should in the first place. I would give them notice, if that don't work then I would cut my loses and move on. 
Just my opinion


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## Ashlar (Jan 21, 2012)

I have heard EAs' use the work and /or family excuses many times . What I find odd is that they are to busy to study for 30 minutes to an hour with a mentor a couple of times a week , but they have time to go fishing , hunting , 4 wheeling , going to or sitting for hours in front of the TV on the weekend watching  sporting events . 

One makes time for what is important and taking a couple of hours a week to study is not to much to ask for and will not break up marriages (well , if it does then the marriage was doomed from the start) .


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## JJones (Jan 21, 2012)

I always say it's not usually a matter of time so much as it is a matter of priorities.


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## jwhoff (Jan 21, 2012)

I agree that begging EAs to finish their work is of no value.  The eager will, the lifeless are lost causes in waiting. 

And it has crossed my mind that allowing EAs to attend business meetings has been of little value.  In fact, we have EAs attending who have progressed little if any in their work.  

The biggest problem I see is that there is so much light that could be imparted to masters that can't be discussed in the presence of EAs and FCs.  In short, we are stunting the growth, development, and interest of newly made MMs in many cases.  I am toying with the idea of a monthly study program only for MMs.  This could dangle the apple before non masters but it's sure to offer the apple for those who hunger most.

Just a thought on the topic.  I think it is a good one.  Thanks Brother Blake.


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## RedTemplar (Jan 21, 2012)

Masonry does not revere the beehive for nothing!  A lazy EA wants something for nothing. The fruits of a lazy person usually costs himself little or nothing. A lazy EA is simply not endowed with all the good and essential qualifications necessary to fulfill the requirements of a FC or MM.


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## chancerobinson (Jan 21, 2012)

Opening on the EA degree for a Stated Communication is at the discretion of the Master.  Several lodges in our area continue to open on the third degree for all Stated Communications.  We also occasionally open an EA Lodge of Instruction to further explain the lessons of the first degree and the workings of the lodge, especially when we have several brothers who are newly initiated.

As others have suggested, the best solution to this problem is during the investigation period.  Some have the desire to complete their journey, and others do not.


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## chancerobinson (Jan 21, 2012)

On a side note others return and complete their catechism, 25-40 years after their initiation, and become active Masons and contributors to our fraternity...personally I know of two brothers who fall in to this category.


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## Blake Bowden (Jan 21, 2012)

Ashlar said:


> What I find odd is that they are to busy to study for 30 minutes to an hour with a mentor a couple of times a week , but they have time to go fishing , hunting , 4 wheeling , going to or sitting for hours in front of the TV on the weekend watching sporting events .



Bingo! 

Let me clarify my original post. While some of the EA's were initiated and never came back, there are some whom I consider active members. Unfortunately, progressing through the degrees isn't a priority, which is the problem.

I don't have my GL Lawbook handy, but what can be done if an EA fails to complete his work within a year? Is his dues card no longer valid?


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## Bill Lins (Jan 21, 2012)

Blake Bowden said:


> what can be done if an EA fails to complete his work within a year? Is his dues card no longer valid?


 
Basically, nothing. He is still an EA and can, if willing, complete his instruction & turn in his work at any time. The only thing is, if he has gone "out-of-time", he'll have to petition for advancement before he can receive his FC degree.


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## Blake Bowden (Jan 22, 2012)

Bill_Lins77488 said:


> Basically, nothing. He is still an EA and can, if willing, complete his instruction & turn in his work at any time. The only thing is, if he has gone "out-of-time", he'll have to petition for advancement before he can receive his FC degree.



Instead of voting on his advancement after a year, I'd like for the Lodge to have the power to invalidate his dues card and remove him from the fraternity. I'm not saying it would be a common practice, but having that power may "encourage" lazy EA's to get on the ball or risk expulsion.


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## Bill Lins (Jan 22, 2012)

Sounds like you need to get busy writing up your resolution- needs to be to the GSec by May 15th. :wink:


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## chancerobinson (Jan 22, 2012)

Blake,

As it stands you can bring masonic charges and suspend or expel an EA or FC if necessary, but they do not pay dues nor hold voting rights until they are a MM.  They are not entitled to the honors and privileges of a Master Mason.  If you want to keep them from attending the stated meeting simply inform the lodge that you will be opening on the Masters degree, invite them to the meal before, open on the 3rd degree, and inform them that the Stewards need some help in the kitchen from the EAs and FCs.  I do not think that this would be any more a detriment to peace and harmony than informing them that Grand Lodge law changed and the lodge just voted you guys out.  Maybe twenty years from now their priorities will change, and they will return or maybe if explained to them properly they will decide to buckle down now.

Personally I like the system in Texas the way it is, if someone does not complete their work in the prescribed time the door is always open for them to return, and I do not think that suspension for not completing their work is a necessary tool because after all they have much more to work towards.  It sounds as though the only privilege extended to them is attending the stated, if the Master sees it as a problem he can always remedy that without changing grand lodge law.  I mean no disrespect with my comments, simply my opinion.

Respectfully and Fraternally,

Chance Robinson


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## Ed Nelson (Jan 22, 2012)

This was brought up at a District Officers meeting I attended this week.

One person brought up that it is essential that the candidate investigation committee meet with the potential member and explain exactly what masonry is, what will be expected for them.

It was said that many new candidates come in not really or fully knowing what masonry is. Some think they are going to levitate 3 feet off the ground or be giving some type of power or influence (too many movies)once they are members.

The reality is that it's a lot of work for them initially and they are going to have to put in some time studying, memorizing, and learning.  They need to know that, understand that, and agree to that before their petitions are ever even read in lodge.


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## Bill Lins (Jan 22, 2012)

chancerobinson said:


> As it stands you can bring masonic charges and suspend or expel an EA or FC if necessary


 
Not for simply failing to work.


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## Bill Lins (Jan 22, 2012)

Ed Nelson said:


> The reality is that it's a lot of work for them initially and they are going to have to put in some time studying, memorizing, and learning.  They need to know that, understand that, and agree to that before their petitions are ever even read in lodge.


 
I have emphasized this with those who have approached me asking for a petition. Seems to work with half of them- the other half disappear after their initiations. Some just aren't cut out to be Masons, for others the time just isn't right yet.


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## chancerobinson (Jan 22, 2012)

Bill_Lins77488 said:


> Not for simply failing to work.



Agreed ... I failed to state "if necessary"... for a masonic disciplinary violation.


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## Mac (Jan 23, 2012)

Blake Bowden said:


> Bingo!
> 
> Let me clarify my original post. While some of the EA's were initiated and never came back, there are some whom I consider active members. Unfortunately, progressing through the degrees isn't a priority, which is the problem.


 
One idea discussed on this forum and others is that of asking the newly initiated, passed, or raised brother to write a paper or presentation on some aspect of the degree in which he just participated.  I have to admit, I've been disappointed by how little people seem to retain from the symbolism of the EA degree, and the FC is all but a stepping stone to so many brothers.  They remember something about stairs and that's about it.  

I think by having them study the process through which they just went, you have them own it.  Right now, they get an old lecture with a power point.  I would like to see a degree where the WM utilizes a tracing board of some kind for the lecture.  

I have a friend being initiated soon, and I'm currently working on a Masonic Education presentation on the symbolism of the EA degree.  A second lecture, delivered less formally and in an almost conversational manner.


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## Brent Heilman (Jan 23, 2012)

I know for me when I was an EA I had the drive and will to see this through. In Oklahoma all stated meetings are conducted on the MM degree. It cannot be done on any other degree. Just being a part of my first meeting was an exciting experience. I wanted to contribute to the Lodge as much as I could. I knew that other than showing up a breakfast or an EA degree was my limits. I couldn't be a part of anything that to me was worthwhile without being a MM. I took the time when I was initiated to to talk to my mentor and set up times with him when we could meet and study. Except for maybe 2 or 3 times I kept those appointments through all 3 degrees. At the time my mentor was also the WM and I also saw this as an opportunity to prove to him and myself that I had the initiative to be of service. I think that many times some of these candidates come in with a preconceived notion of what Masonry is and usually it isn't what they thought it would be and simply disappear. The books and movies trend we are seeing is helping that out. The lazy ones are more than likely a lost cause from the beginning. I didn't have anyone in my family that was involved with Masonry to influence my decision to join or give me a preconceived notion of what I was getting into. Sometimes I think that by going in blind, so to speak, like I did also helped me develop the drive that I have. All we can do is reach out and let them know we are there for them and if they need the help and want it all they have to do is ask.


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## K.S. (Jan 23, 2012)

I really think a small part of the blame lies in the MM's of the lodge. EA's need to be looked after a little bit, as a father might look after his own son.
     It took me 6 years from initiation to raising. When I was a newly minted EA, it was a lonely, dark time. Not much contact with the lodge, trying to study ciphers that looked like gibberish, and it cause me to fall through the cracks for a time.
     I had a sick child in the hospital on and off for 2 years, wife lost her job, and I had to try to pick up extra hours at work. 3 years after initiation I came back to the lodge got passed, a few months later, suffered an injury at work, almost lost my house and spent alot of time in rehabilitation.
     I went back to work, into a flurry of negative changes in the company I work for, now I was forced to work overtime, on a late shift, a mountain of debt to work off while putting my wife through nursing school (still) and took another 3 years until the dust somewhat settled and I could come back to lodge. I finally was raised a month and a half ago, and NONE of it was due to being a "lazy EA".
     I know they are out there, and I believe that Masonry needs to be explained before one submits a petition, so our time and their time isn't wasted on the 1Â°.
     But they shouldn't automatically be written off as Lazy. EA is a lonely spot to be in, they have to want to do the work, but it is up to the MM's to extend the hand of fellowship.
     .............................(Just my 4 cents)


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## s_pike (Jan 23, 2012)

I copied this from an earlier post on this thread. 

"One idea discussed on this forum and others is that of asking the newly initiated, passed, or raised brother to write a paper or presentation on some aspect of the degree in which he just participated."

Nothing in the Degree work can be written down on anything!  Remember your EA Obligation my Brother.


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## JJones (Jan 23, 2012)

Some things can be written...there have been countless books written on Freemasonry and I doubt each of those authors broke their obligations.

I think it's important to note in your quote that the brother mentioned writing about aspects of the degree (such as the lessons, symbolism, ect) and not the degree itself.  This is a pretty important difference, in my opinion.


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## s_pike (Jan 24, 2012)

Agreed my Brother.


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## Mac (Jan 24, 2012)

s_pike said:


> I copied this from an earlier post on this thread.
> 
> "One idea discussed on this forum and others is that of asking the newly initiated, passed, or raised brother to write a paper or presentation on some aspect of the degree in which he just participated."
> 
> Nothing in the Degree work can be written down on anything!  Remember your EA Obligation my Brother.


 
haha, I remember the obligation quite well.  I should have been more clear:

I believe you are only forbidden from writing down the words of the ceremony and the "secrets" that are conferred.  If it was a blanket prohibition, then there would be no research societies.  

I believe a brother writing on the entrance into the room, on circumabulation, black and white tile, etc, helps him embrace the degree.  That is just my opinion, though, and as I've expressed in other threads, I hope to one day create a "different" lodge where Masonic education is the focus more than bill-paying and the reading of the minutes.


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## relapse98 (Jan 24, 2012)

JJones said:


> I was going to post almost the same thing as Ashlar.  The EA always came across to me as the stage in Masonry where the wheat gets separated from the chaff.
> 
> I've noticed that if someone isn't interested in learning what they need in order to advance, it will often be the most apparent with EAs.  I say if they aren't interested, let them be.



You aren't kidding.

In our lodge, we seem to have about a 50% EA dropout rate. About half of them, they'll do the degree and then you never again see hide nor hair of them. Its not like they don't know where we are, they've been coming and having coffee and meals with us for a few months to get their petition signed. I think they just decide that after seeing the degree that it isn't anything they want, which is sad, but its their choice.


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## Thestoat (Jan 24, 2012)

*hi*

It seems to me that my jurisdiction is quite different, as I didn't have to turn in that much work before passing.

I had a shaky start to masonry, and I nearly left, but with support and a change of lodge, I became fired up for freemasonry.

I definitely wasn't lazy before passing, I bought my own ritual book to gain a greater understanding of the rituals and meaning, I learnt the working tools, inner guard bits, all on my own at home.

But for me, it was a hard path, my opinion is, if they are offered help and guidance, yet still can't turn in the work they need to do, either they are genuinely lazy, and therefore not having, and as such is this the fault of the original investigators on their application.

Or the guys concerned have personal issues, work issues, or some sort of stress in their life, we all work hard, but if you want it, you'll do it.

Perhaps there's too much on getting people in quickly, without preparing them enough before initiation.

Just my thoughts.

And hello to my Texas brethren


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## Brent Heilman (Jan 24, 2012)

K.S. said:


> I really think a small part of the blame lies in the MM's of the lodge. EA's need to be looked after a little bit, as a father might look after his own son.
> It took me 6 years from initiation to raising. When I was a newly minted EA, it was a lonely, dark time. Not much contact with the lodge, trying to study ciphers that looked like gibberish, and it cause me to fall through the cracks for a time.
> I had a sick child in the hospital on and off for 2 years, wife lost her job, and I had to try to pick up extra hours at work. 3 years after initiation I came back to the lodge got passed, a few months later, suffered an injury at work, almost lost my house and spent alot of time in rehabilitation.
> I went back to work, into a flurry of negative changes in the company I work for, now I was forced to work overtime, on a late shift, a mountain of debt to work off while putting my wife through nursing school (still) and took another 3 years until the dust somewhat settled and I could come back to lodge. I finally was raised a month and a half ago, and NONE of it was due to being a "lazy EA".
> ...


 
I really understand what you are saying. Truly life does get in the way sometimes. I would never consider what you went through as qualifying for the title of "lazy" and more than likely the opposite of that. I commend you and your will stick it out through the hard times and come back to the Lodge when you could. I think that sometimes when a mentor is assigned to an EA they sometimes fail to live up to the "mentor" title. A phone call or a visit here and there goes a long way in helping someone move forward. We are initiating a candidate next week and we have had numerous volunteers to step forward and teach the lectures to him and check in on him to make sure everything is going good and if he needs help with anything. One of the problems I see though is sometimes the relationship between EA and MM isn't a reciprocal one, which it needs to be if it is to succeed.


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## youngsandy (Jan 25, 2012)

Call me picky but there are no MOCK degree's in Freemasonry, you work a degree with a Substitute Candidate.Don't devalue what we have by using words like Mock.


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## K.S. (Jan 25, 2012)

I guess there were several issues going on at my lodge for a few years about the time of my 1Â°, a bunch of EA's fell by the way side. Only a handful of us made the trek through the darkness somewhat on our own.
     A change in leadership and some brothers departed the lodge, not necessarily on the square, and things got better around the time of my 2Â°. When it came time for my 3Â°, the ship had righted itself, and now we have a great lodge with a good group of members who attend regularly. I'm glad and proud that I stuck thru it.
     Thank you brother Heilman for understanding the dark times of an EA. As I progress further with my lodge, I intend to make sure myself and our candidates coach extend a hand in the dark, so other men don't have to feel as if they are alone in their 1st step.


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## Preston DuBose (Jan 25, 2012)

chancerobinson said:


> As it stands you can bring masonic charges and suspend or expel an EA or FC if necessary, but they do not pay dues nor hold voting rights until they are a MM. They are not entitled to the honors and privileges of a Master Mason. If you want to keep them from attending the stated meeting simply inform the lodge that you will be opening on the Masters degree, invite them to the meal before, open on the 3rd degree, and inform them that the Stewards need some help in the kitchen from the EAs and FCs.



I just wanted to second Bro. Robinson's suggestion here. Perhaps they need the right motivation. I'd suggest handling it Brother to Brother rather than looking to a change in Grand Lodge Law. How about asking the person who recommended the candidate on his petition or some other well-respected Brother to have a word with the EA in question? _Not_ begging to the EA to do the work, but rather making clear statement of expectation. "This is how it works. This is what we expected of you. And this is the consequence of failing to meet that expectation. It's time to man up." Couple that with opening your stated meetings as a MM lodge for a few months and they'll either decide to fish or cut bait.


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## BigLew808 (Jan 26, 2012)

Brothers, I went through some of the same things with lack of mentoring. What another EA and I decided to do was to assist each other to study. We also took it upon ourselves to inquire with our WM and other Officers if we could assist those other EA's that came after us. 
Our Lodge even had an education committee that hardly met with us. Taking a little time either before dinner or the meeting to help them might make a huge difference for them? It helped our Brothers here in Hawaii and it might help your EA's as well. 
Just my opinion


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## Ashlar (Jan 27, 2012)

We invite our EAs' to our monthly dinners and set up weekly classes for them . I have sat at lodge for hours many , many times waiting for just one EA to show up , but all the EAs' were no-shows , they are not interested . So it is not because of a lack of interest on our (the mentors  , the Master Masons) part . As soon as the EA degree is over with , they are given a list of names , phone numbers and addresses of mentors to no avail .

I have given up much of my time to teach them so it is not the lodge's fault . Again , I am not going to beg them to study . I (we , my lodge) extended our hand to guide them through the EA degree and they slapped it away , so all blame falls squarely on their shoulders .


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## Preston DuBose (Jan 27, 2012)

Ashlar said:


> I have given up much of my time to teach them so it is not the lodge's fault . Again , I am not going to beg them to study . I (we , my lodge) extended our hand to guide them through the EA degree and they slapped it away , so all blame falls squarely on their shoulders .



Bro. Ashlar,

Do you know if the investigating committees make a point of explaining to the applicants that after initiation they will have to apply themselves to months of memorization work, none of which is written down? I know each lodge is different and I think the new investigation reports have a line encouraging members to do so. I just know from personal experience that nobody told me squat about what would happen. I was very newly married, and if I'd had any idea of the time commitment involved I certainly would have reconsidered the timing. It put a lot of stress on my marriage, and in fact once I was raised I left Lodge for about 5 years (but stayed current on dues). 

I think some brothers are unclear about what is secret and what is not secret in our fraternity. Erring on the side of caution, they speak of next to nothing to the detriment of candidate, potential candidate, and the public at large.


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## Ashlar (Jan 27, 2012)

We make it a point to inform them that they will have memorization work to perform to advance to the next degree . We ask them if they have the time ( which I still can not see a couple of hours  a week and one night a month at lodge as a hardship) . We also make it a point to inform them that if they do not wish to put in the work to advance , to let us know then (at their investigation ) and we will go no further . We also explain in great detail , what is secret and what is not . So they are not coming in blind and are well informed .

We even reinforce this before we go to open lodge on their Initiation night . We sit them down and ask again if they are willing to put in the work of all that is expected of them . I am very blunt , and I will tell them not to waste their's and our time if they are not willing to work with a mentor . All we hear is " I am ready to put in the work !" , and then we never hear from them again .

Now this is for those EAs' who have never came back . We have those who truly want Freemasonry and had taken their time to study and put in the work .


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## BigLew808 (Jan 27, 2012)

Brother Ashlar,

Point well taken and I completely agree now with your statement.


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## Bill Lins (Jan 27, 2012)

Ashlar said:


> As soon as the EA degree is over with , they are given a list of names , phone numbers and addresses of mentors


 
This may be part of the problem. In our Lodge, we expect the Brother who gave the prospect his petition to be his mentor (not to be confused with his instructor). The mentor is responsible for finding a suitable instructor for the new Brother, monitoring his progress, and helping to resolve any issues which may arise. To me, the personal relationship with both the mentor and the instructor is more likely to result in the EA staying interested and enthusiastic than just giving him a list of names & numbers & expecting him to go down it until he finds someone to work with. Why don't y'all give it a try?


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## Ashlar (Jan 28, 2012)

We call our "Instructors" mentors and/or coaches . Those who proposed the candidates are what we here in my area call "friends and family" as we do not get many outsiders who are unknown to at least a few members of my lodge . Almost all of our EAs' are friends or family members of our Master Masons , so it is not a lack of contact with any of our Master Masons , so that does not fly .

Our proposers do stay in contact with them , but I see this as a way to weed out those who do not want Masonry . I wanted Masonry so I took it upon myself and called a member of my lodge to coach me , it was not the job of my Father-in-law (who proposed me) to do this for me . I guess I see things a little differently and you can consider me a hard a** but I came looking for them , they did not come looking for me . I was an enthusiastic EA and FC , I am a full grown man who was explained how it works (and how to get in touch with an "instructor") and because I wanted to be a Mason I did not need any hand holding  .

And that is my point . Some want us out there begging , pleading and babying these EAs' to work with their coaches . They are all full grown men also and if they do not want Masonry , let them stay as EAs or leave the Fraternity all together . When I had questions , I called my coach or someone else in lodge and they either answered them or put me in touch with someone who could . Because of an accident , I was in so much pain going through the degrees , they had to allow me to sit down to catch my breath . They tried to postpone my degrees , but I would not allow it because I wanted to be a Mason . I made the call on my own and studied and worked with my mentor (aka: instructor) in the same mind numbing pain , sometimes while in bed , because I wanted to be a Mason . I do not think it is too much to ask a man to make a call on his own and work for something important .

Do not take what I am saying wrong as I do agree with you that the proposer should stay in touch with the EA (and FC) whom he had given the petition too , but I do not think he should be begging and pushing him to study his catechism . I talk to MY EAs' all the time , but I do not push them , if they do not want it then it is no skin off my nose . Just gave me good practice conferring the EA degree for those who do want to be Masons .


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## Bill Lins (Jan 28, 2012)

Didn't say anything about "begging or pushing" and I am not in favor of doing either. What I was referring to is letting the candidate know that we are interested in him & how he is progressing and that we are invested in his succeeding in his efforts. I have seen more than a few EA's who were basically abandoned by the Brethren of their Lodges and left to find their own way.

Masonry is far removed from most of the experiences of the profane. An initiate can and, I believe, often does become overwhelmed. Just as college fraternities and our military provide new members with guides or mentors to encourage them and help them learn the ropes in the new and unfamiliar situation they are in, I believe our Brethren and Lodges, as well as our EA's, would be well served by emulating their example.


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## Rescue51 (Feb 4, 2012)

I have been an EA for a while now. (too long) but, I am in the Military and a Husband and Father. I have been deployed, transferred, and otherwise busy with family, school, and work. I am currently looking for a lodge around Saginaw, Tx. I would love to finally finish my degree work, but my time is very limited. Any suggestions? Always looking for guidance.


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## K.S. (Feb 4, 2012)

WOW. That's all I've got. It seems to me like everything else in life, once you've been doing something for a long time, it's real easy to get complacent and forget what it was like to be a poor blind candidate.
     If my lodge would have taken a "get with the program or get down the road" attitude, I would have bid masonry farewell. But I do see your point about not wanting to push them to do their degree work.
     I guess it's all matter of opinion and lodge discretion, but remember that masonry at the EA level can be exciting and mysterious, but scary and lonesome all at the same time. I've been there. We all have. -Just my opinion.


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## K.S. (Feb 4, 2012)

My suggestion brother Rescue51, keep up on your degree work when you can and keep in touch with your lodge as much as you can. That way you won't fall by the wayside as I did when I was an EA. Good luck brother, keep in touch. -from a fellow sea-farer. (Navy)


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## Mac (Feb 5, 2012)

The points raised in this thread, namely that of balancing the responsibility bestowed on the candidate with his ability to make it work in his own life are good reasons to reconsider how much we give him to do.  Honestly, the memorization is nice and all, but there are word-perfect brothers out there who know very little about the degrees through which they have passed.  I think a paper or presentation on the degree shows ownership more than recitation does.


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## cjapgar (Feb 6, 2012)

I agree Mac. A paper or presentation engages the Brother into a better understanding of the degree work and instills those moral and spiritual lessons that guide us through our lives. Our lodge has an alternate proficiency for each degree which is a written test then a recital of certain parts of the cats. They have a choice to do this or a full memorization and recital. I did the alternate proficiencies for my FC, and thought it to be a lot more in depth.


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## towerbuilder7 (Feb 18, 2012)

I will keep my response simple. The attitude of an EA should be of service with freedom, fervency, and ZEAL Brother. If these gentlemen aren't showing that zealous attitude toward the most important aspect of their Masonic "youth", that lends itself to a thought provoking point.  Brothers spend a lot of their time teaching, so a Man who comes in on his own free will and accord should do the same.  Asked and he received.   Sought and he found it.  Knocked and that door has been opened......but, no Brother can nor should they insist or even urge a Man to put in his memory work.  Release them.


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## towerbuilder7 (Feb 18, 2012)

As I mentioned on the thread, a Man who enters on his own free will and accord after "asking and having received, seeking and having found, and knocking and having the door opened should in no way be urged, compelled, nor even asked repeatedly to memorize his degree work.  As a "youth " in Masonry, one should serve with freedom, fervency, and zeal.....after that one year Brother, I would politely inform the Men their affiliation would be discontinued. If the commitment isn't there now, what type of workers would they become upon completion of their degree work and raising?.  I suspect not much different.  I pray you will make the decision that is in the best interest of your Lodge Brother.......


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## Rescue51 (Feb 18, 2012)

I have not completed my EA work because I am in the military(reserves now), full time husband, full time father, I have a full time job and I go to school full time at nights. I do this so I don't have to be active duty and deployed all the time. I don't have time for myself let alone finishing my EA work. I know that there are " lazy" EA's out there, and I know that this thread is about them, but not all of us who haven't completed out obligations as EA's are all "lazy" or bad workers.  I just wanted to share my two cents. I know this wasn't about me personally, but those EA's may have other problems that you are not aware of. Others are just Lazy. Have a great weekend everybody!


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## Mac (Feb 18, 2012)

I think it's never a good idea to make sweeping generalizations.  If you have a genuinely lazy EA, then just consider him cut loose.  If you have an EA who has a rough schedule and can't find the time to meet with a "well informed brother" an hour a day like so many want, but you think he is a good addition to the Craft, then invest your time and energy into working with his schedule.  

The whole point of a brotherhood is fraternity, give and take with our brothers.


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## Bill Lins (Feb 19, 2012)

towerbuilder7 said:


> As a "youth " in Masonry, one should serve with freedom, fervency, and zeal.....after that one year Brother, I would politely inform the Men their affiliation would be discontinued.


 
Under current GLoT law, there is no provision for doing so.


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## Bill Lins (Feb 19, 2012)

Rescue51 said:


> I know that there are " lazy" EA's out there but not all of us who haven't completed out obligations as EA's are all "lazy" or bad workers.  Those EA's may have other problems that you are not aware of


 
Precisely why their mentors & instructors should stay in touch with them- not to push or "beg" them, but so the Lodge will know their situation & let them know that their Brethren have not forsaken them.


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## jwhoff (Feb 19, 2012)

Bill_Lins77488 said:


> Originally Posted by towerbuilder7
> As a "youth " in Masonry, one should serve with freedom, fervency, and zeal.....after that one year Brother, I would politely inform the Men their affiliation would be discontinued.
> 
> 
> Under current GLoT law, there is no provision for doing so.


 
Still more unfortunately, there's no current GLoT provision for "_fervency, and zeal_" service of MMs either.

There's always a catch ... isn't there?

 :38:


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## BryanMaloney (Feb 19, 2012)

Gee, maybe I should hope that I don't get that job with the on call hours, irregular schedule, and overtime. Doing what it takes to support my family might show that I have insufficient "ZEAL"...


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## towerbuilder7 (Feb 20, 2012)

I can certainly appreciate the mindset and situations such as Brother "Rescue51" endured, and the comments made by Brother Bill_Lins77488.......In no way would I nor any Brother in my Lodge diminish the efforts of a Brother who has work, family, or Military obligations.  These are things that are discovered during the Investigation process, and of course, that EA's sponsor would be the FIRST but certainly not the only Brother who would and should check on and encourage a good Man through his degree work.  I am not familiar with GLoT law, as I am a Prince Hall GLoT member.   However, I have observed only a few subtle differences in ways and means of accomplishing the same objective we both share-----fostering relationships with Men who aspire to become members of our Brotherhood.   I was expressing my sentiments toward Bro. Bowden's question of how to deal with LAZY EA's, not Brothers with legitimate obligations.  We had an EA in this current class who did not show the initiative of working toward becoming proficient with his Degree Work.   His sponsor expressed concerns to the proper Officers in the Lodge, and like mentioned in a few posts above, the EA was spoken with, and Brothers expressed their expectations.  We even allowed other members of his class to speak with him privately in their own manner, and they did the same.   Brothers called him at home, checked on him regularly, and he would always claim that "things were getting better". There was no improvement in meeting attendance, memory work, and all we seemed to get were excuses.   So, when proficiency testing came up, the other two members of the class scored well, and he did not.   He was informed that he would not be eligible for Passing at that time, and that he would have to re-petition for any subsequent advancement, and we encouraged him to continue his studies. He never returned.   This is an example of a time when Brothers should not beg nor continually lecture a Man about improving his study habits, or adjusting his priorities.  We were never made aware of any LIFE obligations, work issues, or any other issue which may have inhibited this Man's progress.  We do not make a habit out of shunning Men who are making honest, good faith efforts, or who have legitimate LIFE obligations; My post was directed in response to any Man who is not doing his very best to become a Master Mason, the way each of us did----perseverance, investment of time, and HARD WORK..............I am happy that Brothers can dialogue on this issue in a respectful and Brotherly manner..........I have also taken notes from the more experienced and well-informed Brethren who posted responses.....thanks for the LIGHT!              Bro Vincent C. Jones, Sr., Bayou City Lodge #228, PHA, Houston, Texas


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## jwhoff (Feb 23, 2012)

BryanMaloney said:


> Gee, maybe I should hope that I don't get that job with the on call hours, irregular schedule, and overtime. Doing what it takes to support my family might show that I have insufficient "ZEAL"...



Don't take it brother.  I can tell you from personal experience there's not much ZEAL left after those 60-70 hour weeks.  Just to find eight hours somewhere along the line.  

Your point is well taken.  Still there's the matter of "dead weight."


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## Angler (Mar 13, 2012)

I know that some of the younger EAs are a bit intinidated by the cranky old MMs.  They look to us for guidance.  I make clear to my students when I am available, how to communicate with me and what is "normal" in their studies.  Then I suggest a schedule and confirm days and times.  They really need that.

Constant positive reinforcement for a job well done produces motivated, conscientious  students.

Next time you see a new EA at dinner, call him aside and give him your phone number.  Tell him you want to help him with his work.  The EA will get a great feeling that he is respected and valued as a man and a mason.  You will be surprised how motivated they get.


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## dreamer (Mar 28, 2012)

Before a petitioner(whether he knocked on the door or was invited in) becomes an EA it is our responsibility to ensure we did the most we could during the investigation process. If, there is a spouse/girlfriend was she present during the investigation, was the petitioner informed of the time needed to do the proficiencies, does he have time to attend meetings, does he think we will unleash the "so-called" secrets and that is all he wants. Do we ask him what does he expect from the Fraternity, Lodge or Brothers. Do we tell the petitioner should he become a Brother what we might expect of him. Of course, a petitioner can answer in to what we are expecting to hear, but we have to ascertain much as possible to determine if the person would make a good mason as well as being active(we can only pray), so that neither him or us become disappointed. And should he become an EA are we there every step of the way! Some lodges may be very good at this, while some lodges are more interested in getting new members. What can we expect an EA to think, or for that matter show up again or complete the proficiency if we lose touch with him. Again, it's not fair to him and it's not good for the Fraternity. Just my short opinion.


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## jwhoff (Mar 29, 2012)

Good advice RayW and dreamer.  That's good advice indeed.


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## Timothy Fleischer (Mar 30, 2012)

Since this post began, the Grand Master announced his keynote program for 2012: 
Pass it On.
Look into it for every candidate and implement the help it has for the candidates and young brothers.
It will help build the bond between teacher and student in many ways and make our ties to the Fraternity that much stronger.

When I went through, I met regularly with my teacher at his home. He opened it to me and invited me in once a week. We did not practice at the lodge. I was not able to attend Lodge until I was raised, so there was a long time between when I was initiated and raised. But it built a strong relationship with my Mentor.

If each of us will take one new brother under our wings and give him the time he deserves, we will built better Masons.
NOT ON THE PHONE
NOT AT THE LODGE

Face to face in our homes.

My two cents.


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## TexasMason73 (Apr 4, 2012)

With a low post count and myself being an EA, my opinion might not account for much but here it goes. I was Initiated on January 30th at Orphan's Friend Lodge #17 here in Grimes County, Tx. The lodge has an appointed instructor as I am sure most all lodges do. The instructor had been working really hard to get a member thru his FC so I told him that when he had the time and was ready to let me know and I would be there. I didn't want to overload him for the main reason he is 82 years old. The WM opened an EA lodge every month so that I could sit in and pick up on bits and pieces. I finally started my lessons during the second week of March. I let the Instructor set the times and days in which we met. It was Mon. Wed. and Fri. for 1 1/2 hours each day at his home. I am not sure how all other Lodges operate but here you turn in the 1st section by itself and then the 2nd and 3rd together. I was able to turn in the 1st section at the last stated meeting on 4/2/12 without any assistance. In the same meeting the Instructor received his 40+ year pin. During this time period I was told that the Lodge had several other EAs that had been initiated last year but never heard from again even after trying to contact them. My point being. If a man wants to be a Mason then you would not have to try to persuade them to take on the responsibilities that are required to be such. Focus your energy on the more interested and dedicated, to help guide him thru the journey.


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## Colby K (Apr 28, 2012)

I am recently raised and just starting my journey but I have already experience a lazy EA. At first we invited him through email, he'd never show. Next we invited him via phone calls, he'd make promises but still never show. Finally we offered to come to him and help him. He told us that now wasn't a good time because he was too busy with "life." At that we backed off to allow him to work out what issues he told us he had. We live in a rather small community here of about only 2-3 thousand Americans. We use a facebook group as a kind of craigslist. During this time that the EA was too busy with life he was looking to start taking piano lessons and Italian lessons and posting the "want ads" on the facebook group. This frustrated all of the brothers that were trying so hard to assist him. In the end he informed us that he wasn't interested in being a mason anymore. All of our other EA's have been extremely motivated and on top of it so this was a learning experience. We now handle the lazy EA differently and allow them to choose to do the work. We are always there to assist when requested, but they have to want it bad enough to request in the assistance.


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## Michael Hatley (May 7, 2012)

I would like to confirm RayW's comments.  He was in fact my teacher, and remains so.  The setting the schedule is very important in my opinion.  As are goals, at least loose ones.  I always had a ballpark time frame I was shooting for to turn in my work, and I find that sans at least a fuzzy deadline that things tend to fall off my radar in this busy world.  Things without a deadline (at least a loose one) tend to get pushed for things that do.  That is why I'm looking to pick a date for certification to work towards actually.

I'm thinking that Grand Lodge might be an interesting carrot to put in front of a couple of EAs we currently have.  

I am also of mixed feelings now about the value of opening lodge in EA.  I'm thinking it might be best to have one or two called meetings a month planned to be done in EA, while the stated and perhaps one other called meeting planned to be MM.  My reasons are long winded and I could ramble about them, but the important bit is to retain something for the candidate to work toward, and to ensure the full weight of the MM obligation is imposed upon every member conducting the business of the lodge.


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## anthonywilson (May 13, 2012)

The Worshipful Master at my Lodge always says "We can get you through the door, after that, it's up to you." There's a factor that wasn't addressed, maybe the fraternity didn't match up to the expactions that the EA had. Maybe he was looking for the "dark, evil, satanic" cult that sacrifices animals. Or maybe he was searching for something that would enhance his psychic and magic powers. It sounds silly, but I've talked to a few people that think that's what I learn/do at the Lodge. So rather than go to the Worshipful Master and say "I want out," he'd rather let his one year time frame run out.


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## Pscyclepath (May 18, 2012)

Sometimes life does get in the way...  Last night, I had the privilege of serving as senior deacon as we conferred the FellowCraft degre on a brother who had taken his EA obligation over 28 years ago...   Brother L. had family obligations, then some health problems, then eventually hooked up with our lodge and attended my EA initiation back the first of February.  It took a lot of work to get him back through his EA proficiency, as that sort of memory just doean't work as well at 76 years as it did way back when, but we got him through, and with the earnest advice that we won't let him take that long to turn in for his masters.  In fact, he was passed last night, and we're starting on his FC proficiency by taking him visiting to another FC degree tonight at a neighboring lodge...


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## jjjjjggggg (Jul 20, 2014)

There was a guy who showed up and asked for a petition. He immediately introduced himself and show up to the dinners before meetings so the brothers could get to know him.

After being initiated he took the initiative and started cleaning the lodge on his own, and helping serve dinners. He'd stick around during the meetings, though he wasn't allowed in, and helped clean up. 

Since being raised he still shows up to meet several times a week with his mentor to work on floor work, clean the lodge, and has begun memorizing the junior deacon position to help fill in when the appointed one doesn't show up. He also started taking the educational correspondence courses offered by his grand lodge and visiting area lodges to meet more brothers and to support the one receiving the degree.

His reason he says is because he wants to show how much he appreciated the brothers for bringing him in and for them to be proud they made the right choice. He says he also believes in what masonry offers and hopes that by his example it will draw other young men in to see how great freemasonry is.

Point is, he didn't wait for others to to make it interesting for him, or pat him on the back, or build his self-esteem. He got to work and is still going strong.


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## Levelhead (Jul 23, 2014)

No one called me to study, no one reminded me to do anything. I took it upon myself to meet with my coach on my time and study.

If an EA don't have time or motivation to even learn his chetachism then he wont have time to help out, and volunteer. We need help at breakfasts, family nights and so on. Its nice for an EA to show initiative by coming down and helping. 

Some people are in it to " say they are a mason" and some people are in it to "live as a mason". There are members and there are brothers.

If an EA needs to be called or reminded then they will need to be called or reminded when the lodge needs help.


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## pointwithinacircle2 (Jul 23, 2014)

Levelhead said:


> Some people are in it to " say they are a mason" and some people are in it to "live as a mason". There are members and there are brothers.


Yes, and some of each kind are EA's and some of each kind have been Masons for decades.  I understand getting mad and wanting to dump on someone.  When I was new I asked for help to learn the ritual and no one had the time or cared enough to help me.  It works both ways.

But the fact is that _how I treat you_ is not about who you are or how you act, it _is about who I am_.  Period.  I learned that in Masonry.


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## RyanC (Jul 26, 2014)

I'm a new MM but I know that in say the last five years their has been about 4 to 5 Brother in my lodge that have not gone past the EA degree, I understand that a grow man should not be begged to show up. But would it be wise to contact this people, see why they have not progressed, and what could be done to change things and get them back active.


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## Warrior1256 (Aug 5, 2014)

JJones said:


> I was going to post almost the same thing as Ashlar.  The EA always came across to me as the stage in Masonry where the wheat gets separated from the chaff.
> 
> I've noticed that if someone isn't interested in learning what they need in order to advance, it will often be the most apparent with EAs.  I say if they aren't interested, let them be.


I agree. You are either interested in continuing or you are not. Being recently raised I can still readily remember that when I reached EA I was eagerly looking forward to studying and advancing.


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## DJGurkins (Aug 16, 2014)

Hello Brothers
I was initiated last year in March. I started showing up at the lodge one night before a meeting and haven't stopped. I was Raised in August. When I was initiated the WM. told me he was available on Sun mornings around 9am for study and another Brother told me to call anytime I was off and he would help as well. The point is they started the ball and then it was up to me to continue to push it as hard and as fast as I wanted or needed.


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