# Cipher Books In Lodge



## Blake Bowden (Mar 2, 2013)

Have you seen a cipher book used in Lodge? Votes are anonymous.


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## Trip (Mar 2, 2013)

I've heard if them but never seen one in person.


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## jwhoff (Mar 2, 2013)

Talk about putting you on the spot!  

Here yeah one and all.  

Please, please never put this ole cajun boy in that situation in a Texas lodge room under our current unconstitutional statutes.


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## jwhoff (Mar 2, 2013)

Ouch!  Talk about putting you on the spot!

Of course, there may be other jurisdictions where it would be legal.


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## Michael Hatley (Mar 3, 2013)

We pretend they don't exist while in the lodge building - our district instructor still reckons they are evil.  And to be honest, I like the funny dynamic - because I don't think we should rely on them.  The time spent learning the ritual mouth to ear is one of the special things about this stuff, and the differences between the CoW way of doin things and the book that shall not be named is how you can identify the fellas who have done it the old way.  I like being able to pick those fellas out, personally, because chances are we're on the same sheet of music about how this whole enchilada ought to be eaten.


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## Bill Lins (Mar 3, 2013)

jwhoff said:


> under our current unconstitutional statutes.



Huh? Don't understand.


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## Blake Bowden (Mar 4, 2013)

The results don't surprise me. Personally, I wish they were allowed during practice. It's hard to get things right when Brethren are bickering over how to open/close Lodge, much less confer a degree. I'd rather permit a code book during practice than to have piss poor work performed when it counts. This would be extremely helpful for rural Lodges where participation is slim to none or the DI is already stretched thin.


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## crono782 (Mar 4, 2013)

Bill_Lins77488 said:


> Huh? Don't understand.



Translation: "under our current statutes that render the subject of this topic unconstitutional."

I think. 

Personally, I think it should be allowed for degree practice. After all, isn't that what most people go to the book for? I think yes, the book should be disallowed completely during instruction both by the instructor and instructee and forbade during _open_ lodge. Beyond that, it should be able to be used. I guess the problem would be how to keep a leash on it, so every brother isn't toting one around. I actually think the stimga is good in some ways. Just need to find the sweet spot I guess.


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## jwhoff (Mar 4, 2013)

Thanks crono782.  That was my point although my verbage was lacking.

Who knows how this code book issue will go in the future.  Hopefully not much further than being able to purchase correct renditions from Grand Lodge who would, coincidentally, receive the revenue generated.  That is as far as I would be willing to go.  Not to excited about seeing noses buried in code books when working in lodge.


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## crono782 (Mar 4, 2013)

> Not to excited about seeing noses buried in code books when working in lodge.


Hmmm yeah, that would be most disappointing to see everyone with their heads in a code book even during practice. Kinda takes the whole "brotherhood" out of practice and makes it feel sterile (IMO). It really is a tricky balance to find.


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## Bro_Vick (Mar 5, 2013)

I have seen them out during lodge meetings in other jurisdictions, but not in Texas. 

S&F,
-Bro Vick


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## Brent Heilman (Mar 11, 2013)

I always have mine in my car. During practice nights I will get it out, but never in a tiled lodge (big no-no). During a practice it is inevitable that there will be some confusion over a word here and there and it settles the matter rather quickly. As an aid in instruction, I will only look at it before the instruction is to begin. By doing that I know I am getting it right and not trying to insert my own verbiage into the lesson.


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## XcaliburDK (Mar 11, 2013)

As stated in the EA degree "from time immimorial my brother lessons have been passed from instrucive tongue to attentive ear" and I think it should stay that way and apparently so does the committee on works in The Grand Lodge of Texas.....otherwise we are not keeping to ancient operative masonic beliefs and teachings...and are not being in due form as a lodge....and our new masonic brrthren won't learn "True Masonry" if we keep trying to change things....this is my opinion though

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## crono782 (Mar 11, 2013)

> from time immimorial my brother lessons have been passed from instrucive tongue to attentive ear



I agree to some extents. My opinion, however, is that three words in that statement require particular emphasis: lessons, instructive, attentive.

Lessons: I believe that, in being instructed in the EA, FC, and MM work, ciphers should NOT be used. You are learning the work. The particular brother instructing you will have his own interpretations and understandings of the work and your learning will be shaded by those interpretations. This is what forges the bond between the teacher and student. You take his views and galvanize your teachings with your own formulated understandings. After you have learned the work (and I do realize that, truly, learning never stops) a refresher in the base material is beyond the scope of the initial learnig.

Instructive: The instructive tongue that relates the material to the student is just a conduit of the mind that is relating said material. It would seem that after a number of years, the instructiveness of the mind (and thus, the tongue) require a refresher in instructiveness so to speak.

Attentive: The attentive ear should always strive to perfect and hone the knowledge being given to it. Beyond the initial work, a desire to perfect one's usages of it should develop and may require a rule by which to measure the correctness of the work.

All that just to say, that I believe that in open lodge, it's just lame to crack a cipher book. During instruction, it really ruins the whole point of the word of mouth and rote learning practices. ^_^


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## Star Mztyk (Mar 13, 2013)

I Am Recognized by the Grand Lodge of Texas....my A Certificate hangs on the wall.  Now Listen to me..  if you take your cannidate through his degrees ...you should already be sharing secrets with him and informing him that  Bond that you are his Brother and he would have to commit murder or be involved in treason before you  would tell anyone.  I have had to hold my tongue....but the magic of this is that being a Brother is greater at times than being the Minister of Their Church. Masonry is a cabletoe of Spirit...that is hand to hand.


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## texasmason791 (Mar 14, 2013)

Under the Grand Lodge of Texas you are allowed to have one but they are not allowed In the lodge building. They are a great memory aid. The book should not be used to teach from just to help if you get " stuck" in one area or another. 


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## BEDickey (Mar 15, 2013)

*yes, and no...*

I see them in lodge all the time, but officers are not allowed to use them. We have one person, generally the sec'y as a "prompter", if you get stuck. And the Chaplain is allowed to use the monitor for reciting the charges and prayers, of they have yet to memorize them.


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## RHS (Mar 16, 2013)

They aren't brought into my lodge 


RHS

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## Benjamin Baxter (Apr 11, 2013)

I have not seen them in my lodge. For pratice purposes I believe they could be of value. I have seen many brethren need to learn the material right the first time, instead of practicing it wrong for a while and then finding out it was wrong and having to relearn it again. 

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## Bill Lins (Apr 11, 2013)

Bro. Bennylee said:


> I have not seen them in my lodge. For practice purposes I believe they could be of value. I have seen many brethren need to learn the material right the first time, instead of practicing it wrong for a while and then finding out it was wrong and having to relearn it again.



That's the responsibility of the instructor. If we began allowing the books to be used at practice sessions, before long I see them showing up @ tiled meetings. IMHO, far better to use them only as permitted currently.


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## jwhoff (Apr 11, 2013)

I must profoundly agree with that statement!


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## Ecossais (Apr 12, 2013)

After the FC Degree, I watched a Past Master of a Fort Worth lodge (in the big temple downtown) read the entire FC Lecture out of a code book one evening. He stood at the lectern and read the Lecture to the candidate. It was obvious that he was reading it. It was truly amazing. I almost couldn't believe it was happening. This was back in the 1990s, before cypher books were made legal for individual use. It was somewhat comical, as he read the entire old Lecture, including the parts that were taken out a long time ago.


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## crono782 (Apr 12, 2013)

Wow. I live here in FW and it saddens me to hear that. 


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## Bro. John (Apr 12, 2013)

I don't see the problem with code books, other than using one in lodge meeting. I wish I had one. They are cool. And without knowledge no non mason would be able to read it.


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## dfreybur (Apr 12, 2013)

Bro_Vick said:


> I have seen them out during lodge meetings in other jurisdictions, but not in Texas.



Yep.  Different jurisdiction, different rules.

In my first jurisdiction some of the elderly brothers told tales of the controversy around the GL printing cipher books but it was long over by the time before I petitioned, went through my degrees and went through the line.  I have a collection of the old books from before the change as very elderly brothers died and their families wanted to give their Masonic paraphernalia to someone who appreciates it.

In my second jurisdiction the change to printing out the entire ritual with the modes of recognition replaced by underscores had happened so long ago it predates any living member.  Any controversy that had happened had been forgotten long before.  Even 65 year members cannot remember events before they were born 86+ years ago.

When I affiliate in Texas I'll be a member in jurisdictions in all three conditions.  Mouth to ear, cipher, written except for modes of recognition.  Wonderful diversity.  There is strength in diversity.  There is strength in unity.  That both are true at the same time is one of those mysteries of life.


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## Benjamin Baxter (Apr 12, 2013)

Bill_Lins77488 said:


> That's the responsibility of the instructor. If we began allowing the books to be used at practice sessions, before long I see them showing up @ tiled meetings. IMHO, far better to use them only as permitted currently.



I can see how they would be abused, I wish we could get our district instuctor over for more of our practices. We have been going to his lodge as of late to get in on certifying in may.:thumbup: 

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## Bill Lins (Apr 13, 2013)

Bro. Bennylee said:


> I wish we could get our district instuctor over for more of our practices.



The rule is that he has to be asked- we're not supposed to go to Lodges unless they ask us to.


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## Benjamin Baxter (Apr 13, 2013)

Bill_Lins77488 said:


> The rule is that he has to be asked- we're not supposed to go to Lodges unless they ask us to.



Understood I will have to ask. Good to know. I will not have a good excuse now. Thanks Bro Bill:thumbup:

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## Michael Hatley (Apr 13, 2013)

We're so blessed in 30A to have Brother Emile Bussemey for a district instructor.  His time at our lodge instructing is something several of us wouldn't miss for the world.  Patient, takes the time to teach the whys and whatfors, and is a very intelligent man (retired geophysicist) who has been around masonry a long time.

He is at Holland #1 mostly, but he comes to our lodge sometimes and we go to Holland to see him too.  I've heard stories here and there where some folks have butted heads with their DI, but if you're blessed to have a good one like ours I can highly recommend it.  Its one of my favorite things to do, especially degree practice or round robin Q&A's.  It feels like a team sport sorta.

That, and the relationship built when learning the initial Q&As between the candidate and his instructor is why I figure the codebook ought to be used conservatively.  The mouth to ear business is just awesome for building relationships between brothers.


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## Belcher (Apr 13, 2013)

have seen them for sale on ebay. are the books the same from state to state


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## crono782 (Apr 13, 2013)

I've seen a few different ones specific to various states and they are all quite different. The Texas one specifically contains a number of inaccuracies as well.


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## JFS61 (Apr 13, 2013)

I remember several years ago the Committee for Work wanted to work with Allen Publishing to correct the inaccuracies, but the members of Grand Lodge at the annual communication voted the resolution down. Never understood the thinking behind that - If cipher books are legal, then why shouldn't they be accurate as well? Furthermore, why not have Grand Lodge publish the cipher books directly themselves as other GL's do - Think of the much needed revenues that would generate.


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## Bill Lins (Apr 13, 2013)

Belcher said:


> have seen them for sale on ebay. are the books the same from state to state



No. Some GLs' rituals are similiar to, but not exactly the same as ours, while others are completely different.


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## Bill Lins (Apr 13, 2013)

crono782 said:


> The Texas one specifically contains a number of inaccuracies as well.



I've always wondered if some of those "inaccuracies" weren't intentional- back when they were illegal, that was one way you could tell if "Brother AB" had been using a cipher.

Here's an example- in the 1945 edition, the explanation of the Lights of the Lodge in the EA Lecture is correctly worded. In the 1984 edition, by the same publisher, the wording is incorrect. You tell me. :wink:


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## Bill Lins (Apr 13, 2013)

Michael Hatley said:


> We're so blessed in 30A to have Brother Emile Bussemey for a district instructor.



Yes, y'all are- Bro. Emile is a great guy. Sometime, when we're enjoying some BBQ :wink:, I'll tell you a couple of "Bro. Emile" stories! :beer:


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## Belcher (Apr 13, 2013)

i found one that is dated in late 1800's. the brother it belonged to was from wy. 
bought it due to age. ( collection item  ) not as a study reference.


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## marinesgt2322 (Apr 15, 2013)

I'm newly raised to the sublime and I was told from day 1 the cipher book was not to be used until after the master masons work was turned in. It is suppose to be used as a reminder ONLY not to learn from. 


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## Zack (Apr 16, 2013)

IMO the cipher book is a great learning/teaching tool when a Brother is not available to help instruct you.  I learned much of the three lectures using the cipher and then getting help with the encoded parts.  It is an invaluable tool in learning the ritual.

In my jurisdiction it is not allowed to be used in open Lodge.


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## Raymond Walters (Apr 17, 2013)

NO!!!


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## Raymond Walters (Apr 17, 2013)

Belcher said:


> have seen them for sale on ebay. are the books the same from state to state




NO!!!


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## Michael Neumann (Apr 17, 2013)

Ritual varies from state to state so if you did purchase one it would only be valid for that specific GL... and if that GL does not produce one then you cannot be sure that the cipher book you are studying from is presenting you with proper form for that GL... see the catch?


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