# The Philosophy of "Making Good Men Better"



## pointwithinacircle2 (Sep 15, 2015)

Lest anyone think that I am being critical, let me begin by admitting my faults.  Early in my Masonic career I wondered why no one tried to "Make Me Better".  It seemed that no cared if I learned anything more than what was needed to pass my examinations.  Other than giving me some pat answers or responding to my questions by saying the answer is "in the ritual", no one tried to educate me.  This confused me.  I wondered if I was I the only one who saw some deeper meaning in Masonry.

My first response to this was to feel unwanted and alone.  Why weren't they helping me learn?  Had I failed some unspoken Masonic test, I wondered?  Did I seem unworthy of their help?  Was I being ignored as part of some ritual hazing that all new Masons had to go through to prove their dedication and worthiness?

My second response was to feel cheated and angry.  Had I mistakenly joined a Lodge where no one knew how to, or cared to, improve themselves?  Were these men as good as it got?

I could go on listing my petty resentments but you get the point.  Obviously I was not that good of a man yet.  But I hung in there.

My first great teacher was not an old PM but a newcomer who petitioned my Lodge.  When his petition was read in Lodge I recognized his name, although we had never met.  I decided that I did not want him to feel as  unwanted and ignored as I had felt when I joined.  So I sought him out, introduced myself and told him I had heard his petition read in Lodge.  I asked him about himself, his work, and why he wanted to be a Mason.

Another time I invited him to my home and we talked in my kitchen while I made lunch.  I explained that after his initiation the Lodge would assign him a mentor to teach him the examination but that I would be happy to answer any questions that I could.  I showed him my Masonic books and said that when he was ready I would be happy to loan them to him.  We became friends.

This man taught me that I had it all wrong.  "Making Good Men Better" is not the responsibility of any Lodge or Grand Lodge.   It is not something that my Brother Masons owe to me, it is something that I owe them.  There is a secret truth, a secret meaning in this phrase.  Today I believe that "Making Good Men Better" is the obligation that I owe to Masonry.  Viewed in this way it becomes the secret key that unlocks many of the mysteries and much of Truth and Beauty.

When I became a Mason I was lazy and waited for someone else to do the work for me.  But all that changed because I began to care about the experience of one stranger who petitioned my Lodge.  And that has made all the difference.


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## dfreybur (Sep 15, 2015)

It's one of the hidden mysteries.


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## JJones (Sep 15, 2015)

JamestheJust said:


> Some of us feel that we have some sort of mission in life, a higher calling.



I'd put forth that what you're describing is simply the human ego.  Everybody wants to feel important, everybody wants to be the center of the universe or special in some way, even if it's small.  If everyone that felt they had a higher calling truly had a higher calling then being exceptional would be the norm and we wouldn't need Freemasonry or religion.

I believe it's possible to become exceptional, I wouldn't be a Freemason if I didn't believe this.  But as the OP stated, we become exceptional, or polished, by our own hands.


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## coachn (Sep 16, 2015)

re: Human Ego...

http://www.mind-development.eu/ego-autonomy.html


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## Ressam (Oct 16, 2015)

IMHO, it's impossible to "make good man better" by works in The Lodge!
The man can only "become better" in his routine day life, bein' surrounded by different people.
Or, I am wrong?


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## dfreybur (Oct 17, 2015)

Ressam said:


> IMHO, it's impossible to "make good man better" by works in The Lodge!
> The man can only "become better" in his routine day life, bein' surrounded by different people.
> Or, I am wrong?



A matter of interpretation.  Exposure to the good men at lodge teaches a brother what being a good man means.  Then it's up to him to emulate them or not.


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## Ressam (Oct 17, 2015)

dfreybur said:


> A matter of interpretation.  Exposure to the good men at lodge teaches a brother what being a good man means.  Then it's up to him to emulate them or not.


Agreed!
It's logical!
But "up to him" means that -- "he may not become better"!


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## Bill Lins (Oct 17, 2015)

Ressam said:


> But "up to him" means that -- "he may not become better"!


True. All we can provide is the opportunity and the guidance. The Brother has to prove himself worthy by emulating that which he sees as admirable in others and NOT emulating that which he sees as deficient. It truly is up to him.


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## Classical (Oct 18, 2015)

No man can truly save another man, but we can do all we can to show them a path worth following!


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## dfreybur (Oct 19, 2015)

Bill_Lins77488 said:


> True. All we can provide is the opportunity and the guidance. The Brother has to prove himself worthy by emulating that which he sees as admirable in others and NOT emulating that which he sees as deficient. It truly is up to him.



Would some brothers like to switch our logo from "We make good men better" to "We teach how to become a better man"?  Not an official program just brothers starting to use the different wording to see if it is better understood.


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## Kevin Arnold (Nov 27, 2016)

Ressam said:


> IMHO, it's impossible to "make good man better" by works in The Lodge!
> The man can only "become better" in his routine day life, bein' surrounded by different people.
> Or, I am wrong?


I totally agree with you, it is the people you are surrounded by that can make you a better person...


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## pointwithinacircle2 (Nov 27, 2016)

JamestheJust said:


> I wonder how many people have moved on from having making themselves better as the primary goal.  Many seem to want to make the world better.  Is that stage 2?


Personally, I would say no.  Most of the people I know who want to make the world better are ego driven.  I think the world is a better place when we work on ourselves and leave others to work out their own form of improvement.


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## dfreybur (Nov 28, 2016)

JamestheJust said:


> I wonder how many people have moved on from having making themselves better as the primary goal.  Many seem to want to make the world better.  Is that stage 2?



According to Scientology self is level 1, family is level 2, society is level 3.  I like to learn from all religions.  According to AA it's step 12.  I like to learn from organizations other than religions, too.

Masonry is less direct about the topic.  We do charity because good men are charitable, including the ambiguous meaning between generosity and love.  We urge of Brothers to be more active at church and in civics without giving any guidelines about what to do there or which one to pick.


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## Warrior1256 (Feb 10, 2017)

Classical said:


> No man can truly save another man, but we can do all we can to show them a path worth following!


Very good. I like this.


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## jermy Bell (Feb 11, 2017)

So, do you need to take 3 obligations, and go threw the 3 rituals to learn to become a better man ? I mean like unselfishly helping a neighbor,  helping at a charity event. Treating others as you would like to be treated, help someone that needs help without judgment,  I could go on.  So, if you couldn't do these acts before you became a mason, do you think becoming a mason would intice you to do these things ? I didn't need to wear a apron before to go  and do the right things and what I was taught by an older generation about helping others with no expectations of a reward,  believing in god, I joined masonry to meet others like myself and to help for the greater cause.


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## Warrior1256 (Feb 12, 2017)

jermy Bell said:


> I joined masonry to meet others like myself and to help for the greater cause.


Excellent. Totally agree.


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## coachn (Feb 12, 2017)

jermy Bell said:


> So, do you need to take 3 obligations, and go threw the 3 rituals to learn to become a better man ?


Of Course Not!  However, if it never occurred to you to become a better man, Freemasonic Obligations are a great way to stir those thoughts.  They are not the only way though; I am living proof.  I was well on the path before I joined and had taken upon myself bettering myself long before I joined.


jermy Bell said:


> I mean like unselfishly helping a neighbor,  helping at a charity event. Treating others as you would like to be treated, help someone that needs help without judgment,  I could go on.  So, if you couldn't do these acts before you became a mason, do you think becoming a mason would intice you to do these things ?



If you *couldn't* before, what stopped or prevented you?   
If you *wouldn't* before, why did you choose or decide not to?



jermy Bell said:


> I didn't need to wear a apron before to go  and do the right things and what I was taught by an older generation about helping others with no expectations of a reward,  believing in god, I joined masonry to meet others like myself and to help for the greater cause.


Kudos!


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## Warrior1256 (Feb 12, 2017)

coachn said:


> However, if it never occurred to you to become a better man, Freemasonic Obligations are a great way to stir those thoughts. They are not the only way though; I am living proof. I was well on the path before I joined and had taken upon myself bettering myself long before I joined.


This reminds me that I once read somewhere about the principal of only accepting men of good character to begin with. It was something like "Our mission is to make good men better, not bad men good".


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## coachn (Feb 12, 2017)

Warrior1256 said:


> This reminds me that I once read somewhere about the principal of only accepting men of good character to begin with. It was something like "Our mission is to make good men better, not bad men good".


Yep.  

However, although it might not be our mission, the Work path does get rid of bad, when committed to and done thoroughly.


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## Warrior1256 (Feb 12, 2017)

coachn said:


> the Work path does get rid of bad, when committed to and done thoroughly.


I'm a relatively new MM but I can already see where this is true. The things that we stand for and strive to keep true would not be conducive to retain those "bad".


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## coachn (Feb 12, 2017)

Warrior1256 said:


> I'm a relatively new MM but I can already see where this is true. The things that we stand for and strive to keep true would not be conducive to retain those "bad".


Yes, and that "bad" includes what is found within each of us.


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## jermy Bell (Feb 12, 2017)

Isn't it to help and set an example to man kind on what a a better man can be and charity towards others.


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## coachn (Feb 12, 2017)

jermy Bell said:


> Isn't it to help and set an example to man kind on what a a better man can be and charity towards others.


Isn't *"What"* to help and set an example to man kind on what a better man can be and charity towards others?


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## pointwithinacircle2 (Mar 9, 2017)

jermy Bell said:


> Isn't it to help and set an example to man kind on what a a better man can be and charity towards others.


I'm going to jump in here and say "not for me".  If I build myself a great house it is because I want to live in a great house and I am willing to do the work to accomplish that goal.  Someone may see my house and think "there is an example of a great house", they may even ask me to teach them the skills to build such a house, but that is not my purpose - that is a bonus.


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## jermy Bell (Mar 9, 2017)

I hear and see a lot of that answer. Then what was the point of becoming a mason?  Unless it was to become a shriner. I ask this question to many new EA's. And I get some saying,  well, it's a cool organization to belong to. What's cool about it if you do nothing?


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## coachn (Mar 9, 2017)

jermy Bell said:


> I hear and see a lot of that answer. Then what was the point of becoming a mason?  Unless it was to become a shriner. I ask this question to many new EA's. And I get some saying,  well, it's a cool organization to belong to. What's cool about it if you do nothing?


But we do do something... we make members, we call them "masons; brothers, etc..." and then we make effort to have them participate in making the next batch.


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## JJones (Mar 9, 2017)

jermy Bell said:


> I hear and see a lot of that answer. Then what was the point of becoming a mason?  Unless it was to become a shriner. I ask this question to many new EA's. And I get some saying,  well, it's a cool organization to belong to. What's cool about it if you do nothing?



It's 'cool' in that you are learning how to make yourself a better person. Through self-improvement you improve (obviously), which improves your quality of life over time and eventually ensures you have the resources to help, aid, and assist other people. Mason and neighbor alike.


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## Warrior1256 (Mar 9, 2017)

JJones said:


> It's 'cool' in that you are learning how to make yourself a better person.


Exactly!


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## JJones (Mar 9, 2017)

JamestheJust said:


> Masonry does little to direct the process.
> I suspect that the lack of management of the process of becoming a better person is one key to the decline in Masonry.  There are more effective self-improvement processes freely available in all cities.
> There must be more to Masonry if the current system is to survive



It's all there in the teachings, ritual, and symbolism, but I agree, there is little being done to direct the process in many lodges. There's this notion which is often unspoken but heavily implied, and that is that we make men better by rushing them through a memorization process, putting them in a position, and holding fundraisers. Furthermore, by doing this, we are somehow making men better.

Lodges need education and mentorship programs if they want to take charge of the process.


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## Ripcord22A (Mar 9, 2017)

Theres the saying "Do unto others as you would do unto your self" and also "love you neighbor like you love yourself" well i heard it put a different way last night
 "what you do to others u do to your self" 
"as you love you love your neighbor you love yourself"
Meaning everything you do to someone else you are also doing to yourself.......

Sent from my LG-H918 using My Freemasonry mobile app


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## Bloke (Mar 10, 2017)

It's  interesting. I was sent a pathway plan for new freemasons today.  It echoes corporate life and I'm still thinking on the practicality of implementing such a thing ( it came from QLD James).... but it's worth thinking on the merits of a sort of Professional Development Plan rather than what we currently do... which is lay down vague paths to simple goals around history, ritual,  the esoteric,  or developing knowledge or skill which a newer bro is seeking.  A PDP might be a good way too go, but it would really need to be owned by the student rather than a sec or mentor.... but someone would need to participate in assisting the student to develop it...



JamestheJust said:


> Masonry does little to direct the process.
> 
> I was at a lodge the other day and an elderly and much respected member referred to a deceased brother as "a nasty piece of work".  I wondered at the time why the lodge permitted the deceased brother to belong for 20 years.
> 
> ...





JJones said:


> It's all there in the teachings, ritual, and symbolism, but I agree, there is little being done to direct the process in many lodges. There's this notion which is often unspoken but heavily implied, and that is that we make men better by rushing them through a memorization process, putting them in a position, and holding fundraisers. Furthermore, by doing this, we are somehow making men better.
> 
> Lodges need education and mentorship programs if they want to take charge of the process.





coachn said:


> But we do do something... we make members, we call them "masons; brothers, etc..." and then we make effort to have them participate in making the next batch.





jermy Bell said:


> I hear and see a lot of that answer. Then what was the point of becoming a mason?  Unless it was to become a shriner. I ask this question to many new EA's. And I get some saying,  well, it's a cool organization to belong to. What's cool about it if you do nothing?



All interesting comments.  

One thing about Freemasonry.... its no quick path to success to true personal development,  but it is a true vocation and challenging...,  but above all it puts you in the company of good men with shared values and that's been of incredible value to me..


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## Warrior1256 (Mar 10, 2017)

Bloke said:


> its no quick path to success to true personal development, but it is a true vocation and challenging..., but above all it puts you in the company of good men with shared values and that's been of incredible value to me..


Agreed!


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## Bro MBGellner RAM; 32nd (Mar 10, 2017)

It is easy to become obsessed with a billion explanations of our symbols. The craftsman should reflect on his teachings and works. The deeper meanings will occur to you more over time and with practiced reflection.

In the end, we are but a copy made in an image. And our teachings are to practice this image. It is a sacred truth that if you are a copy; then the one true form exists. We are rough longing to be perfect and by the symbolism of the dialogue the allegory teachings are a prophecy to us that the perfect one does exist.

God is at its center
And we are God's followers.
God calls us a priesthood.
We are the priests. 
We have chosen a side because we choose light. Light is good. And there is no darkness in God.


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## Ripcord22A (Mar 10, 2017)

Bro MBGellner RAM; 32nd said:


> It is easy to become obsessed with a billion explanations of our symbols. The craftsman should reflect on his teachings and works. The deeper meanings will occur to you more over time and with practiced reflection.
> 
> In the end, we are but a copy made in an image. And our teachings are to practice this image. It is a sacred truth that if you are a copy; then the one true form exists. We are rough longing to be perfect and by the symbolism of the dialogue the allegory teachings are a prophecy to us that the perfect one does exist.
> 
> ...


Y do u keep posting that?

Sent from my LG-H918 using My Freemasonry mobile app


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## jermy Bell (Mar 10, 2017)

I with draw my comment.


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## Ripcord22A (Mar 11, 2017)

Huh?

Sent from my LG-H918 using My Freemasonry mobile app


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## Brother JC (Mar 11, 2017)

The pigpen cypher is extremely common. I learned it in the scouts and taught it in the navy. I've used on event posters and other graphics as well.


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## Bloke (Mar 11, 2017)

Brother JC said:


> The pigpen cypher is extremely common. I learned it in the scouts and taught it in the navy. I've used on event posters and other graphics as well.



I saw a CA ritual book the other day..... looked tricky....


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## Brother JC (Mar 11, 2017)

Mm, yeah, I see your point there. It still makes me cross eyed looking at it. NM is fairly straightforward so CA was a bit of a shock.


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## Warrior1256 (Mar 11, 2017)

Ripcord22A said:


> Y do u keep posting that?


I was asking wondering this myself!


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## coachn (Mar 11, 2017)

Bro MBGellner RAM; 32nd said:


> It is easy to become obsessed with a billion explanations of our symbols.


Only when you are not doing the Work.  When you do the Work, you tend to filter out a lot of BS fairly quickly.


Bro MBGellner RAM; 32nd said:


> The craftsman should reflect on his teachings and works.


Yeah, in an ideal world.  But, as you might have gathered, Freemasonry doesn't support this.


Bro MBGellner RAM; 32nd said:


> The deeper meanings will occur to you more over time and with practiced reflection.


LOL!  Not if the light's on and no one's home.  I know members who have gone to their graves buying into this "stuff" you shared never getting deeper than the rubbish that's shoved their way by others.  Deeper meaning comes with Work, not time.


Bro MBGellner RAM; 32nd said:


> In the end, we are but a copy made in an image.


I call shenanigans!  Who is this "we"? It sounds all warm and goey, but it's not sticking to the wall.


Bro MBGellner RAM; 32nd said:


> And our teachings are to practice this image.


Who is this "our" of which you speak?  I have yet to actually practice anything that was actual provided Freemasonic teachings.  All of it is training.  There's a huge difference.


Bro MBGellner RAM; 32nd said:


> It is a sacred truth that if you are a copy; then the one true form exists.


Copy? Sacred Truth?  One True Form?


Bro MBGellner RAM; 32nd said:


> We are rough longing to be perfect ...


Who is this "We" and how are you defining "perfect"?


Bro MBGellner RAM; 32nd said:


> ...and by the symbolism of the dialogue the allegory teachings are a prophecy to us that the perfect one does exist.


Gees!  Could I please get a small hint of what you are smokin'?


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## Bloke (Mar 11, 2017)

( Hey Coach, you will like this one...a while back in here there was some lovely story or post or something, and we're (including me) all replying with approval; sorry, can't remember details but Freemasonry(Masonry in nod to you) was the hero. You made some comment, not inappropriate but slightly not like the rest, and I realised, we were all being _very_ *sentimental* while you were being _VERY_ *rationalist*... just thought I'd let you know in the hope you might take that as a complement.... i'm starting to see it as a divide within Freemasonry ( like and other "divide", skin colour, religion, wealth, politics etcetera ) but still just part of our tapestry)


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## 88DAM88 (Aug 4, 2017)

I find that we should be concerned with quality not quantity when it comes to Lodge membership. We should guard that West Gate closely. We should be a fraternity striving to "make good men better." not make men good men. I feel that there one should be at a certain level of character and spirit before even being considered. I like this paraphrased text from an article by L. _Vallejos_ in Elephant Journal. We should be looking for good men to bring in, not collecting dues from nice guys:
____________________________________________________________

*Are you a Nice Guy or a Good Man?*

If that seems like an odd question, bear with me for a moment, because there is a distinct difference between the two.

A nice guy will tell a pretty lie to avoid the discomfort of telling an ugly truth.
A good man will deliver the truth, however unpleasant, because his integrity will not let him deceive anyone for his own comfort.

A nice guy will do nice things with unspoken expectations attached. He will take a woman on a date, expecting to get something in return.
A good man does things without expectation of a payoff, but because he is acting in accordance with his core values. Should he receive a return—it’s simply a bonus.

A nice guy is worried about his reputation, but a good man is only concerned with his character.

A nice guy fears rejection and so he seeks validation.
A good man is self-validated and does not tie his worth to whether he is accepted or rejected.

A nice guy will cloak his intentions and be unclear, while a good man will be upfront with his intentions and be very clear about his aim.
The good man leaves no space for ambiguity.

A nice guy will have loose boundaries and will bend over backwards just to seem nice. A good man has clear boundaries and, thus, earns the respect of the people around him.

A nice guy will smother his current love interest and will make her the center of his universe.
A good man will give appropriate attention to a lover without becoming overbearing or taking over her life.

A nice guy will blame others, circumstances, or fate for his lot in life.
A good man recognizes his role in whatever has transpired, takes responsibility and, when necessary, redirects his course.

A nice guy will make lofty promises to look good.
A good man will only make the promises he knows he can keep.

A nice guy wants to play the knight in shining armor, but is quick to disappear when sh*t gets real.
A good man knows it’s not his job to rescue anyone but will show up and have your back when needed.

A nice guy will discard anything and anyone that is no longer useful to him.
A good man will respect another persons’ inherent dignity and treat them kindly even when they no longer have a role or purpose in his life-plan.

A nice guy lacks leadership abilities and is content to let others guide his life.
A good man takes charge of his life and becomes the master of his own fate.

A nice guy will do anything to avoid hurting someone’s feelings.
A good man realizes that sometimes, the kindest thing one can do for another may initially be hurtful, but will eventually be helpful.

A nice guy will say what others want to hear.
A good man will say what others need to hear.

A nice guy won’t apologize even when he’s wrong because he thinks it makes him weak.
A good man is quick with apologies and even faster with reparations.

A nice guy lives in service of himself and his desires.
A good man lives in service of humanity.

At the core, the major difference between a nice guy and a good man is that a nice guy is concerned with appearances and etiquette.
The good man is concerned with character and morality.

The nice guy takes the easy road.
The good man is committed to his development and is willing to do the work to become a better man.
The good man realizes that he is not going to get there by taking shortcuts, in life, business, or relationships.

The good man will do the work, and reap the benefits.
A nice guy looks on in envy.

If you’re a nice guy, it’s okay. You can become a good man.

Start by speaking your truth, owning your life and choices, and start living for a higher purpose.

Start making decisions that align with being a good man. Change your approach to living.

If you’re a good man—thank you. The world needs more of you.


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## coachn (Aug 5, 2017)

Bloke said:


> ( Hey Coach, you will like this one...a while back in here there was some lovely story or post or something, and we're (including me) all replying with approval; sorry, can't remember details but Freemasonry(Masonry in nod to you) was the hero. You made some comment, not inappropriate but slightly not like the rest, and I realised, we were all being _very_ *sentimental* while you were being _VERY_ *rationalist*... just thought I'd let you know in the hope you might take that as a complement.... i'm starting to see it as a divide within Freemasonry ( like and other "divide", skin colour, religion, wealth, politics etcetera ) but still just part of our tapestry)


Just saw this.  AWESOME!  Thank You!  (and KUDOS!)


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## hanzosbm (Nov 6, 2017)

I know I'm a bit late to this party, but as I recently presented a paper on exactly this topic, I couldn't help but add on.  Most of the paper discussed our teachings a little too in depth for me to post here, but one of the conclusions I came to was the Freemasonry does NOT make good men better.  Rather, it gives good men the tools to make themselves better.


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## Warrior1256 (Nov 7, 2017)

hanzosbm said:


> Freemasonry does NOT make good men better. Rather, it gives good men the tools to make themselves better.


I like this!


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## Pointwithinacircle3 (Nov 10, 2017)

Perhaps guarding the West gate means keeping out people who are not prepared for better tools.     ?????


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## Warrior1256 (Nov 10, 2017)

Pointwithinacircle3 said:


> Perhaps guarding the West gate means keeping out people who are not prepared for better tools. ?????


It seems to me that you wouldn't know this until after they are members. This is where "wise council" would come in.


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## jermy Bell (Nov 10, 2017)

I'm' still curious on this one., all I'm ever told is go to these schools we put on, you need to learn the rod, and floor work.  This will make me a better man and mason ? You need to come to these schools we put on and learn ritual, and learn the lectures. This will make me a better man and a mason ? (The famously deer in the head light look) so, how does one explain to a new brother how to be a better man and a mason, when we can' get past ritual and floor work ?


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## Bloke (Nov 10, 2017)

jermy Bell said:


> I'm' still curious on this one., all I'm ever told is go to these schools we put on, you need to learn the rod, and floor work.  This will make me a better man and mason ? You need to come to these schools we put on and learn ritual, and learn the lectures. This will make me a better man and a mason ? (The famously deer in the head light look) so, how does one explain to a new brother how to be a better man and a mason, when we can' get past ritual and floor work ?


I guess my responds would be something about self-discipline and understand Freemasonry by learning its ritual..... but there are many paths to being a good Freemason, some of the best ones I know are not really interested in ritual, but they live it's messages.


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## Pointwithinacircle3 (Nov 10, 2017)

Learning the ritual and the floor work will perpetuate the the system.  While perpetuating the system a man may (or may not) become a better man.  It makes me wonder, how shall we define "a good man"?  Is there an objective standard or does each man set his own standard?  Is becoming a good man something a man can do on his own or does it require (or possibly, is it made easier by) interaction with other men?


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## Brother JC (Nov 10, 2017)

The lessons you were given during the degrees contain the tools you need. The floorwork is to pass those lessons on to the next candidates.


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## coachn (Nov 10, 2017)

jermy Bell said:


> I'm' still curious on this one., all I'm ever told is go to these schools we put on, you need to learn the rod, and floor work.  This will make me a better man and mason ? You need to come to these schools we put on and learn ritual, and learn the lectures. This will make me a better man and a mason ? (The famously deer in the head light look) so, how does one explain to a new brother how to be a better man and a mason, when we can' get past ritual and floor work ?


https://buildinghiram.blogspot.com/2015/01/the-road-map-talk-what-candidates.html


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## Warrior1256 (Nov 11, 2017)

Brother JC said:


> The lessons you were given during the degrees contain the tools you need. The floorwork is to pass those lessons on to the next candidates.


Agreed.


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## hanzosbm (Nov 13, 2017)

Brother JC said:


> The lessons you were given during the degrees contain the tools you need. The floorwork is to pass those lessons on to the next candidates.


I wish I could like this more than once.

I think what frustrates me is the amount of emphasis placed on the floorwork.  In my opinion, this is done by those who are either unwilling or unable to grasp or work on the lessons taught in the ritual and therefore focus on that minutia of the exoteric work they CAN grasp.  We recently had a 15 minute argument among 60 officers of our district on whether the common gavel ought to be held vertically or at a 45 degree angle while giving the tools lecture.  15 minutes (I timed it) heatedly arguing about the slight turn of the wrist.  And I've never heard a word spoken about the symbolism of the tools aside from whether they can get the words of the lecture right. 

Learning the degrees is important to be able to pass them along, but in order to improve oneself, it requires contemplation on the lessons taught within them, and then, once the lessons are understood, the real work of putting those lessons into practice begins.


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## Warrior1256 (Nov 13, 2017)

hanzosbm said:


> Learning the degrees is important to be able to pass them along, but in order to improve oneself, it requires contemplation on the lessons taught within them, and then, once the lessons are understood, the real work of putting those lessons into practice begins.


Very true!


hanzosbm said:


> We recently had a 15 minute argument among 60 officers of our district on whether the common gavel ought to be held vertically or at a 45 degree angle while giving the tools lecture. 15 minutes (I timed it) heatedly arguing about the slight turn of the wrist.


I would have gotten up and walked out. I refuse to waste my time on such foolishness.


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## Brother JC (Nov 13, 2017)

@hanzosbm  No offense to your GL but that is ridiculous! This is exactly the sort of thing that drives the newer members away.


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## hanzosbm (Nov 13, 2017)

Brother JC said:


> @hanzosbm  No offense to your GL but that is ridiculous! This is exactly the sort of thing that drives the newer members away.


No no, by all means, LOTS of offense to them.  I'm just thankful that this happened in the officers' school of instruction so that only the officers were forced to endure this.  Most of us can simply roll our eyes and smile till the clock runs out.  I can't imagine what this might do to the average brother.  I don't make a great secret of my dislike for the bureaucracy of Grand Lodge.  The really sad part is, just like any form of politics, only someone willing to immerse themselves in all of the political BS would be able to rise to a position capable of making meaningful changes.  Sadly, the kind of people who have the desire to make those changes wouldn't be able to stand all of the politicking long enough to reach those levels.  Myself included.


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## coachn (Nov 13, 2017)

“For as to what we have heard you affirm, that there are other kingdoms and states in the world inhabited by human creatures as large as yourself, our philosophers are in much doubt, and would rather conjecture that you dropped from the moon, or one of the stars; because it is certain, that a hundred mortals of your bulk would in a short time destroy all the fruits and cattle of his majesty’s dominions: besides, our histories of six thousand moons make no mention of any other regions than the two great empires of Lilliput and Blefuscu. Which two mighty powers have, as I was going to tell you, been engaged in a most obstinate war for six-and-thirty moons past. It began upon the following occasion. It is allowed on all hands, that the primitive way of breaking eggs, before we eat them, was upon the larger end; but his present majesty’s grandfather, while he was a boy, going to eat an egg, and breaking it according to the ancient practice, happened to cut one of his fingers. Whereupon the emperor his father published an edict, commanding all his subjects, upon great penalties, to break the smaller end of their eggs. The people so highly resented this law, that our histories tell us, there have been six rebellions raised on that account; wherein one emperor lost his life, and another his crown. These civil commotions were constantly fomented by the monarchs of Blefuscu; and when they were quelled, the exiles always fled for refuge to that empire. It is computed that eleven thousand persons have at several times suffered death, rather than submit to break their eggs at the smaller end. Many hundred large volumes have been published upon this controversy: but the books of the Big-endians have been long forbidden, and the whole party rendered incapable by law of holding employments. During the course of these troubles, the emperors of Blefusca did frequently expostulate by their ambassadors, accusing us of making a schism in religion, by offending against a fundamental doctrine of our great prophet Lustrog, in the fifty-fourth chapter of the Blundecral (which is their Alcoran). This, however, is thought to be a mere strain upon the text; for the words are these: ‘that all true believers break their eggs at the convenient end.’ And which is the convenient end, seems, in my humble opinion to be left to every man’s conscience, or at least in the power of the chief magistrate to determine.” 
― Jonathan Swift, Gulliver's Travels


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## Bloke (Nov 13, 2017)

hanzosbm said:


> I wish I could like this more than once.
> 
> I think what frustrates me is the amount of emphasis placed on the floorwork.  In my opinion, this is done by those who are either unwilling or unable to grasp or work on the lessons taught in the ritual and therefore focus on that minutia of the exoteric work they CAN grasp.  We recently had a 15 minute argument among 60 officers of our district on whether the common gavel ought to be held vertically or at a 45 degree angle while giving the tools lecture.  15 minutes (I timed it) heatedly arguing about the slight turn of the wrist.  And I've never heard a word spoken about the symbolism of the tools aside from whether they can get the words of the lecture right.
> 
> Learning the degrees is important to be able to pass them along, but in order to improve oneself, it requires contemplation on the lessons taught within them, and then, once the lessons are understood, the real work of putting those lessons into practice begins.


The argument on the gavel is dumb, it makes no difference to the lesson received. I often say, Freemasons often approach ceremonial like an occultist trying to cast a spell, every thing must be done right or it wont work. We're not doing that in lodge, we're teaching and learning (including those delivering the work), whether you hold the gavel at a certain angle, or indeed if you even hold it is immaterial compared to delivering the lessons. That said, I run the floor work in my lodge and do have a strong interest in getting everything as close to perfect as possible. A man only gets to do a degree once, so its important we do the best job we can, and as these skills and knowledge generally prove accumulative, it also means working hard polishes the stone. However, it is much better to see a MM having a go than an experienced Past Master working in perfection and showing off; we need to keep developing the next generation and that means mistakes will be made - which is fine, as long as everyone is trying. But that gavel discussion, that's _trying _in a very different kind of way !


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## hanzosbm (Nov 13, 2017)

Absolutely, and don't get me wrong, it is important to me that ritual is done well.  The words need to be right and flow naturally with the emphasis in the right places to help make the material more digestible and easier to understand.  In addition, I think that when the floor work is done well, it helps the candidate focus more on the lessons being taught rather than wondering why that guy walked a different way than that other guy.  But, I think those things are icing on the cake and unfortunately, I see a lot of time devoted to them while the cake itself (the lessons of the ritual) get pushed to the back burner.


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## Warrior1256 (Nov 14, 2017)

Bloke said:


> The argument on the gavel is dumb, it makes no difference to the lesson received. I often say, Freemasons often approach ceremonial like an occultist trying to cast a spell, every thing must be done right or it wont work. We're not doing that in lodge, we're teaching and learning (including those delivering the work),


Correct!


hanzosbm said:


> The really sad part is, just like any form of politics, only someone willing to immerse themselves in all of the political BS would be able to rise to a position capable of making meaningful changes. Sadly, the kind of people who have the desire to make those changes wouldn't be able to stand all of the politicking long enough to reach those levels. Myself included.


Sad but true.


hanzosbm said:


> I see a lot of time devoted to them while the cake itself (the lessons of the ritual) get pushed to the back burner.


I think that this is true in a LOT of lodges and GLs. I have seen it many times myself in my short Masonic career.


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## Brother JC (Nov 14, 2017)

It’s a system of making Members, not Masons. GLs are worried about getting another dues payment and lodges become account managers. Once you buy the product it’s like pulling teeth to get customer service to give you the instructions.


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## coachn (Nov 14, 2017)

Brother JC said:


> It’s a system of making Members, not Masons. GLs are worried about getting another dues payment and lodges become account managers. Once you buy the product it’s like pulling teeth to get customer service to give you the instructions.


BINGO!  WE HAVE A WINNER!


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## pointwithinacircle2 (Jan 9, 2018)

Brother JC said:


> It’s a system of making Members, not Masons. GLs are worried about getting another dues payment and lodges become account managers. Once you buy the product it’s like pulling teeth to get customer service to give you the instructions.


While I agree with what you have said, I think that perhaps it is only the tip of the iceberg.  I think there is a reason why Lodge members today are not given the instructions to become Masons.  I think it is because we stopped teaching the instructions so long ago that few Masons actually have them anymore, and those that do possess the instructions probably found them outside of the Lodge.  I know that's where I found the few instructions that I possess.


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## hanzosbm (Jan 9, 2018)

pointwithinacircle2 said:


> While I agree with what you have said, I think that perhaps it is only the tip of the iceberg.  I think there is a reason why Lodge members today are not given the instructions to become Masons.  I think it is because we stopped teaching the instructions so long ago that few Masons actually have them anymore, and those that do possess the instructions probably found them outside of the Lodge.  I know that's where I found the few instructions that I possess.


I agree.  ACTUAL Masonic education seems so foreign to so many that even when it's brought up, it confuses people.  I mentioned to someone a few months back that I really wanted our lodge to focus more on Masonic education, particularly surrounding the lessons taught in our rituals.  His initial response was "oh, you mean like better floorwork?"  No, I mean understanding the symbolism taught and how we can put those lessons into practice in our every day lives.  "oh, you mean like the history of who wrote the rituals?".  This kept going on and on.  Unfortunately, I would say that the majority of Masons today see the ritual simply as something that has to be memorized and performed in order to make members, as Brother JC put it.  It's almost as if its just a required step while going through the motions, which is a shame, because in my opinion, the ritual and the lessons it/they teach IS Freemasonry.


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## pointwithinacircle2 (Jan 9, 2018)

I once read something which was very meaningful to me, it went: "The purpose of ritual is that it allows those who do not understand the truth to pass the truth on until it reaches someone who can understand it".


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## hanzosbm (Jan 9, 2018)

pointwithinacircle2 said:


> I once read something which was very meaningful to me, it went: "The purpose of ritual is that it allows those who do not understand the truth to pass the truth on until it reaches someone who can understand it".


Wow, perfectly said.  I need to make it a point to remember that.


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## Warrior1256 (Jan 9, 2018)

pointwithinacircle2 said:


> I once read something which was very meaningful to me, it went: "The purpose of ritual is that it allows those who do not understand the truth to pass the truth on until it reaches someone who can understand it".


I like this.


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## coachn (Jan 9, 2018)

pointwithinacircle2 said:


> I once read something which was very meaningful to me, it went: "The purpose of ritual is that it allows those who do not understand the truth to pass the truth on until it reaches someone who can understand it".


*The purpose of ritual is to serve as a vehicle that carries directions to light*.

The purpose was never anything other than this.

Some members will never do anything more than maintain that vehicle, never looking inside it, never pulling out the roadmaps that direct those who can read them toward Light. 

Yes, it allows  those who will never understand it to maintain it.

No, it does not contain the truth men seek; it only points them toward that truth when they seek it.


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## richardmcmullan128 (Jan 9, 2018)

Hi guys I just recently joined freemasonry, March 2017 to be exact. I am just waiting on my master Mason next month. It’s all a bit confusing to me at the minute, I know I probably shouldn’t know that much at my stage, I would just like to gain a knowledge and know what it is ‘all about’ ? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## hanzosbm (Jan 9, 2018)

richardmcmullan128 said:


> Hi guys I just recently joined freemasonry, March 2017 to be exact. I am just waiting on my master Mason next month. It’s all a bit confusing to me at the minute, I know I probably shouldn’t know that much at my stage, I would just like to gain a knowledge and know what it is ‘all about’ ?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Freemasonry is unlike pretty much anything else that most of us will experience in this lifetime.  It's not surprising that it starts off confusing.  Tell us a little bit more about yourself (for instance, which Grand Lodge you're with for starters) and if there is anything in particular we can help you with.  As you learned in the first degree; seek, ask, knock.  It has been my experience that most brothers are happy to help answer questions or give you a helpful point in the right direction.


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## dfreybur (Jan 9, 2018)

richardmcmullan128 said:


> It’s all a bit confusing to me at the minute, I know I probably shouldn’t know that much at my stage, I would just like to gain a knowledge and know what it is ‘all about’ ?



Before a man petitions, it's about decided to join our assemblies.

Until the presentation of the third degree proficiency, it's about doing the work required for each degree.  This is arguably the only time it's easy to answer that question.

After that it's about becoming a better man this year than you were last year.  Some of that happens by regular attendance to associate with those here longer to work to emulate them.  Some of that happens by regular attendance to set a good enough example that the newer guys find you worthy of emulation.  As such we have a gradual escalation of excellence.

Thus the ritual is to have something to meet about and to have something to train the new guys on while they are getting an invisible education by association.  Plus it's all those virtues and stuff mentioned in the lectures.  And all the meaning you care to pour into it.  I happen to care to pour vast amounts of meaning into it.


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## Bloke (Jan 9, 2018)

richardmcmullan128 said:


> Hi guys I just recently joined freemasonry, March 2017 to be exact. I am just waiting on my master Mason next month. It’s all a bit confusing to me at the minute, I know I probably shouldn’t know that much at my stage, I would just like to gain a knowledge and know what it is ‘all about’ ?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Step 1 - show up.
Step 2 - listen & learn
Step 3 - think.
Step 4 - read
Step 5 - think
Step 6 - be patient
Step 7 - go back to step 1 and start again.

I've been a Freemason for over 10 years and am still following the above process


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## Athena (Jan 16, 2018)

Blake I like what you have to say.

Well the one thing I firmly agree with is that you guys take in people who are already good. If an organization good or bad just tries to mass recruit and get as big as possible even if it's to make bad people better. It causes ALOT of chaos within there group. Even the act of wanting to get bigger and bigger is CHAOTIC regardless of the organizations purpose due to how we are.

One thing that I find that is good. The true light that we must all pursue and continue to grow before we pursue other lights. Is to understand ourselves, and aknowledging that it is very important. Once we found this light it will continue to be a craft we must pursue that we will never fully grasp but to keep going until understanding oneself is no longer important as in.. There isn't a need we are gone to the next life which is much better then what we go through now.

Understanding that there is good and evil in this world is a fact and product of mankind and through mankind it manifests. Maybe the godless and or evil people that congregate within each other are powerful and perhaps.. Even more powerful then the good ones. The effort to fight this is what matters. In the end the only thing that matters is God (or supreme being), other people, and the knowledge that it will be better when it is all over.


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## Bro. ricardo hardy (Feb 19, 2018)

Love this. Thanks Brother


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