# Racism & Religious Hate



## fmasonlog (Mar 27, 2017)

Brothers, 

I need some advice. I am a newly raised MM. I love Freemasonry and my brothers. With that being said... something has been bothering me for a while. I am seeing brothers who are very nice to me, but in incognito they're either racist towards a race, or a certain religion. How do I know? Facebook. I am sick and tired of it... it literally makes my stomach turn. I will also discuss this with my PM. Should I join Prince Hall lodge? Another lodge? Does your lodge have certain individuals? How do you deal with that. 

Thank you. 


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## Ripcord22A (Mar 27, 2017)

Call em on their crap!  Respectfully but call em on it

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## fmasonlog (Mar 27, 2017)

Ripcord22A said:


> Call em on their crap!  Respectfully but call em on it
> 
> Sent from my LG-H918 using My Freemasonry mobile app



Thanks for the suggestion bro. I am confused right now. I hope to build up the courage to call them out. 


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## Glen Cook (Mar 27, 2017)

As one who had been the subject of religious bigotry in the fraternity (though it has been two months ), I don't think leaving your GL will change anything.  You will find bias even in PHA.


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## tldubb (Mar 28, 2017)

Ripcord22A said:


> Call em on their crap!  Respectfully but call em on it
> 
> Sent from my LG-H918 using My Freemasonry mobile app



I strongly agree call them out on it because their behavior is un-masonic. Be that change agent in your lodge I'm sure there are brothers in your lodge that feel the same as you do. 


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## coachn (Mar 28, 2017)

fmasonlog said:


> ...I need some advice. ...


I caution you as to calling them out.  Unless you can show yourself to have an unbiased view and do so within an unbiased arena, civilly, rationally and know that you can maintain respectful composure to any responses/reactions, it is extremely risky. 

Even the most vigilantly anti-(whatever) person will soon be accused of the same thing that is being called out by wolves who wear the cloak of "victim" to these behaviors. 

I witnessed an exchange between members recently.  One Fraternal member repeatedly throw out what "he was" and he was finally asked to elaborate on his choice to continually call himself what he blatantly threw out, and unnecessarily so.  The questioned member went full ballistic on the person asking him to expand upon his clearly baiting language.  As he attacked this Brother, his words showed clear irrationality.  He twisted and misrepresented the words of the questioning Brother.  He assumed things that showed his clear bias.  He even lied as to what was actually stated.  He even accused the questioner of things that had no relevance to the question put forth.  When others tried to point all this out, he then attacked those who dared to point these things out.

It became clear that he was waiting to unload a powder keg of animosity that had been filling up for years; the questioning and supporting Brothers had no idea how much hate was hiding underneath the surface of this attacking member.  The barrage of hate unloaded upon these attacking member's targets was undeserved.  It got very nasty and it revealed how biased this attacking Fraternal member actually was, along with all those other members who supported his biased view. 

Ironically, he wore the cloak of someone fighting against the very thing that he clearly believed he was fighting against.   I've seen this kind of thing occur many times.

Be Vigilant!  But above all Be Cautious!  Even the "victims" are not what they appear to be.


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## Brother JC (Mar 28, 2017)

Unfollow them on Facebook, let them wallow in their own filth there. Be civil when you meet in lodge. Find other Brethren to emulate, be the Mason you wish others to be.
There is only one person you can change, work on that person.


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## Warrior1256 (Mar 28, 2017)

Ripcord22A said:


> Call em on their crap! Respectfully but call em on it


Agree, but people can have unpopular views but still not be considered un-Masonic.


Glen Cook said:


> I don't think leaving your GL will change anything. You will find bias even in PHA.


As well as in all groups.


coachn said:


> I caution you as to calling them out. Unless you can show yourself to have an unbiased view and do so within an unbiased arena, civilly, rationally and know that you can maintain respectful composure to any responses/reactions, it is extremely risky.





coachn said:


> Be Vigilant! But above all Be Cautious! Even the "victims" are not what they appear to be.


Agreed!


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## Keith C (Mar 28, 2017)

Brother JC said:


> Unfollow them on Facebook, let them wallow in their own filth there. Be civil when you meet in lodge. Find other Brethren to emulate, be the Mason you wish others to be.
> There is only one person you can change, work on that person.



Awesome advice!

We all have bias and social media has become an open forum for everyone's misguided opinions.  I only post about food, beer, motorcycles, travels and family.  I leave the "social commentary", politics, religion to others and if I have "friends" who overly post about those subjects I unfollow.

I know there are jurisdictional differences but in mine part of my obligation was to correct brothers when they stray from masonic behavior.  To those who say not to bring this to the brother in question, do you feel yourself under the same obligation and, if so, how do you reconcile that advice to what you are obliged to do?


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## coachn (Mar 28, 2017)

Brother JC said:


> Unfollow them on Facebook, let them wallow in their own filth there. Be civil when you meet in lodge. Find other Brethren to emulate, be the Mason you wish others to be.
> There is only one person you can change, work on that person.


Amen!


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## fmasonlog (Mar 28, 2017)

All advices are very helpful brothers. Thank you . I will though take bro JC's advice for now. 


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## tldubb (Mar 28, 2017)

fmasonlog said:


> All advices are very helpful brothers. Thank you . I will though take bro JC's advice for now.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using My Freemasonry



Best of luck good Brother!


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## Warrior1256 (Mar 29, 2017)

fmasonlog said:


> All advices are very helpful brothers. Thank you
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I hope that it all works out for the best, whatever that may be.


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## Brother_Steve (Mar 29, 2017)

listen to your closing charge and take it from there. (do you have a closing charge?)


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## fmasonlog (Mar 29, 2017)

Brother_Steve said:


> listen to your closing charge and take it from there. (do you have a closing charge?)



I don't feel comfortable disclosing anything that's done in the lodge, bro. As I'm new as well, when experienced I'll answer more questions if I can 


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## Brother_Steve (Mar 29, 2017)

fmasonlog said:


> I don't feel comfortable disclosing anything that's done in the lodge, bro. As I'm new as well, when experienced I'll answer more questions if I can
> 
> 
> Sent from my  using My Freemasonry


fair enough. But if you have one, go to that sacred retreat in your mind and think about it.

Also, don't forget your ea working tools. You shape yourself with them not others. If you try to shape another with your common gavel, you may be disappointed.


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## fmasonlog (Mar 29, 2017)

Brother_Steve said:


> fair enough. But if you have one, go to that sacred retreat in your mind and think about it.
> 
> Also, don't forget your ea working tools. You shape yourself with them not others. If you try to shape another with your common gavel, you may be disappointed.



Thank you for the wise words bro. Means a lot. 


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## fmasonlog (Mar 29, 2017)

tldubb said:


> Best of luck good Brother!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using My Freemasonry



Thanks Brother. 


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## fmasonlog (Mar 29, 2017)

Warrior1256 said:


> I hope that it all works out for the best, whatever that may be.



Thanks bro 


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## CLewey44 (Mar 30, 2017)

There are some downright racist lodges for sure. That's why I say merge PHA and non-PHA lodges into one. That'll cull out the racists on both sides real quick.


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## Glen Cook (Mar 30, 2017)

CLewey44 said:


> There are some downright racist lodges for sure. That's why I say merge PHA and non-PHA lodges into one. That'll cull out the racists on both sides real quick.


Well, it may result in a culling, but not in the manner for which you hope.  I suspect it would mean the minority would be excluded, and we'd be back where we started.


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## CLewey44 (Mar 30, 2017)

I guess it could go either way. I would hope that the good would outweigh the bad in that situation. If not, we may need to take a look in the mirror at ourselves.


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## Warrior1256 (Mar 30, 2017)

Glen Cook said:


> Well, it may result in a culling, but not in the manner for which you hope. I suspect it would mean the minority would be excluded, and we'd be back where we started.





CLewey44 said:


> I guess it could go either way. I would hope that the good would outweigh the bad in that situation. If not, we may need to take a look in the mirror at ourselves.


True on both counts.


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## fmasonlog (Mar 30, 2017)

Ideal 


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## CLewey44 (Mar 30, 2017)

fmasonlog said:


> Ideal
> 
> 
> Sent from my  using My Freemasonry



Lol, beautiful!


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## Bill Lins (Mar 30, 2017)




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## fmasonlog (Mar 30, 2017)

Bill Lins said:


> View attachment 5620



Very cool  lol


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## Brother JC (Mar 30, 2017)

Keith C said:


> I know there are jurisdictional differences but in mine part of my obligation was to correct brothers when they stray from masonic behavior.


Mine said to whisper wise council. Sadly, the type of person described by the OP rarely listen to whispers or wise council. But it is always right to try.


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## Warrior1256 (Mar 31, 2017)

Bill Lins said:


> View attachment 5620


Creepy, lol.


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## grayflannelsuit (Mar 31, 2017)

Not to hijack the thread, but it's been an interesting experience for me becoming Facebook friends with lodge brothers, and getting a chance to see the part of their personalities I don't witness in lodge. Fortunately I haven't seen anything like the racism or hateful things described by the OP. Suffice it to say that these brother simply share a drastically different view of things like society or politics than I do. I have embraced the opportunity to not put myself in an echo chamber by muting/unfriending them, nor have I opted to let it change the way I treat them in person. I have to say it's been a growing experience in my young Masonic life, even if it hasn't been easy.


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## Warrior1256 (Mar 31, 2017)

grayflannelsuit said:


> Suffice it to say that these brother simply share a drastically different view of things like society or politics than I do. I have embraced the opportunity to not put myself in an echo chamber by muting/unfriending them, nor have I opted to let it change the way I treat them in person.


Totally agree. We can have very different views and still be tolerant of each other. A friend of around 30 years was instrumental in getting me into Masonry. We are Facebook friends and have almost totally opposite political views. We almost always disagree with each others posts. However, we do so respectfully and neither one of us would even dream of unfriending the other.


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## Bill Lins (Mar 31, 2017)

Warrior1256 said:


> Creepy, lol.


What- you don't like the Blues Brothers?


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## Brother JC (Apr 1, 2017)

Bill Lins said:


> What- you don't like the Blues Brothers?



I was wondering the same thing...


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## Warrior1256 (Apr 1, 2017)

Bill Lins said:


> What- you don't like the Blues Brothers?





Brother JC said:


> I was wondering the same thing...


Actually I do Bill. But it still struck me as a little creepy, lol.


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## MRichard (Apr 1, 2017)

Glen Cook said:


> Well, it may result in a culling, but not in the manner for which you hope.  I suspect it would mean the minority would be excluded, and we'd be back where we started.



Well said, Brother! It might work in some jurisdictions but definitely not all. I advocate dual and plural affiliations for both regular and  recognized grand lodges in each state where there is amity.

There is not a good reason where there isn't at least recognition without visitation of the PHA grand lodges in the 9 states where there is no amity.

One of the tenets of freemasonry is taking good men and making them better. Something ain't working in some jurisdictions.


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## Brother JC (Apr 1, 2017)

The black & white makes it a little Addam's Family-ish.


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## Warrior1256 (Apr 2, 2017)

MRichard said:


> There is not a good reason where there isn't at least recognition without visitation of the PHA grand lodges in the 9 states where there is no amity.


This is the way that it started out in Kentucky. Then this past year both the Kentucky and PHA GLs voted to allow visitation. Great day for Masonry in Kentucky!


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## bupton52 (Apr 2, 2017)

I wonder what the brothers in the states where recognition agreements are not in place have been doing to make a change, if anything.  


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## Dontrell Stroman (Apr 6, 2017)

bupton52 said:


> I wonder what the brothers in the states where recognition agreements are not in place have been doing to make a change, if anything.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using My Freemasonry


Blaming each other.


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