# Separate But Equal?



## Blake Bowden (Jan 26, 2017)

In Texas, we recognize the Most Worshipful Grand Lodge of Texas and the Most Worshipful Prince Hall Grand Lodge of Texas as equals.

That being said, every day we receive dozens of messages from those seeking membership. Where do we lead them? Prince Hall is predominately African-American and if you know PHA history, you'll understand why. Mainstream (I hate that term) Freemasonry, had a history of bigotry and racism but is slowly becoming more diverse. 

Is profiling okay in Freemasonry? If an individual is African American, should we automatically point him towards PHA simply because of his skin color? Would he feel more at home? If a white guy asked for guidance should we automatically send him to a "mainstream" Lodge?

For me, the existence of two Grand Lodges under one jurisdiction is a contradiction. I understand why they both exist, but it sucks. Your thoughts?


----------



## Elexir (Jan 26, 2017)

As a sidenote: In Denmark three diffrent masonic orders with different rituals are under 1 GL.


----------



## goomba (Jan 26, 2017)

Working and living in the DC gets even more complicated, DC, MD, and VA that's six grand lodges.  Generally if they live in Maryland, the state I live in, I'll direct them to the my grand lodges website and help them find a lodge close to them.  I've had one person ask about PHA and I showed him their website as well.  In Maryland the lodges and Masons I've seen "mainstream" has a great mix and no one should feel out of place.  On the flip side I would expect a Prince Hall Mason to refer any person to their grand lodge website unless asked otherwise.  It's not that I think one is better than the other we each individually know our lodge and grand lodge.


----------



## coachn (Jan 26, 2017)

Blake Bowden said:


> In Texas, we recognize the Most Worshipful Grand Lodge of Texas and the Most Worshipful Prince Hall Grand Lodge of Texas as equals.
> 
> That being said, every day we receive dozens of messages from those seeking membership.


Who is this "we" to which you refer?


Blake Bowden said:


> Where do we lead them?


Why not have a series of open ended questions that lets you know what they are seeking specifically?


Blake Bowden said:


> Prince Hall is predominately African-American and if you know PHA history, you'll understand why. Mainstream (I hate that term) Freemasonry, had a history of bigotry and racism but is slowly becoming more diverse.
> 
> Is profiling okay in Freemasonry?


Of course it is.  However, you're not writing out the true question:  is RACIAL profiling okay?

And the answer to that is a no brainer.


Blake Bowden said:


> If an individual is African American, should we automatically point him towards PHA simply because of his skin color?


Of course not.  It's not about what we assume about a person's interests.  It's about what they are looking for that we should be most interested.


Blake Bowden said:


> Would he feel more at home?


Again, what is HE looking for?


Blake Bowden said:


> If a white guy asked for guidance should we automatically send him to a "mainstream" Lodge?


No Way!  I know many Brothers who think of themselves as "white" who want what PHA is offering.


Blake Bowden said:


> For me, the existence of two Grand Lodges under one jurisdiction is a contradiction. I understand why they both exist, but it sucks. Your thoughts?


It only sucks if you believe there is both a conflict and a contradiction.  I do not believe these exist anywhere other than in the hearts and minds of those who don't understand the true reason for grand lodges, and they are not to rule and govern over any territory or the lodges within that territory.  They exist to support lodges and to assure there is consistency.  Unfortunately, they have been given far too much power and in doing so, they have cut off their lodges from their collective manhoods.


----------



## SimonM (Jan 26, 2017)

coachn said:


> It's not about what we assume about a person's interests.  It's about what they are looking for that we should be most interested.


This is really interesting, how would do you describe the differences for a potential candidate to help him find what he searches for? I have never set foot in any american lodge, and have only a vague notion of the differences between PHA and "mainstream" so I couldn't do it.


----------



## MRichard (Jan 26, 2017)

I don't refer to any grand lodge as mainstream. I use state grand lodges or my grand lodge and then PHA cause they are the regular and/or recognized grand lodges in the US. I would advise someone interested in his options and explain the differences between the grand lodges so that he can make an informed choice for himself.


----------



## CLewey44 (Jan 26, 2017)

I think Bro Blake is really asking, why is this even the situation still in the 21st century? PHA was brought about out of necessity of those horrible times in America when black men and white men were separated due to a skin pigmentation difference. I really wish we were all under one GL and maybe PHA be an appendant body perhaps. I don't want it to go away because it has such a rich history. I simply want them to merge. Let masons be masons. I don't foresee that happening because it's such a deep tradition. Even though it has no intentions of seeming a little Jim Crowish, it simply does scream 'separate but equal'.


----------



## MRichard (Jan 26, 2017)

CLewey44 said:


> I think Bro Blake is really asking, why is this even the situation still in the 21st century? PHA was brought about out of necessity of those horrible times in America when black men and white men were separated due to a skin pigmentation difference. I really wish we were all under one GL and maybe PHA be an appendant body perhaps. I don't want it to go away because it has such a rich history. I simply want them to merge. Let masons be masons. I don't foresee that happening because it's such a deep tradition. Even though it has no intentions of seeming a little Jim Crowish, it simply does scream 'separate but equal'.



There is really no need to merge and who would want to merge to become an appendant body? Dual and plural memberships for both grand lodges is what I would advocate. There are multiple grand lodges in practically every state. Although I see people on both sides supporting it.


----------



## CLewey44 (Jan 26, 2017)

I meant all blue lodges merge into one GL instead of two. PHA could be an appendant/concordant body to not lose that legacy. I don't know, it just seems a little too 1805 or 1960s in the south to me and a lot of people. It is almost primarily in the U.S. that the PHA and non-PHA standard is going on and it shouldn't be necessary anymore. If any racists on either side didn't like it, then they'd probably be culled out pretty quick and no longer apart of this fraternity. It's an unnecessary divide in my opinion.


----------



## MRichard (Jan 26, 2017)

CLewey44 said:


> I meant all blue lodges merge into one GL instead of two. PHA could be an appendant/concordant body to not lose that legacy. I don't know, it just seems a little too 1805 or 1960s in the south to me and a lot of people. It is almost primarily in the U.S. that the PHA and non-PHA standard is going on and it shouldn't be necessary anymore. If any racists on either side didn't like it, then they'd probably be culled out pretty quick and no longer apart of this fraternity. It's an unnecessary divide in my opinion.



I know what you meant. Just don't think that's the best path but I respect your opinion. 

I live in the South. Dealing with some of these issues will take decades. 

If you just told the racists to leave if they don't like it out here, I don't even want to speculate what would happen.


----------



## Bloke (Jan 26, 2017)

CLewey44 said:


> I meant all blue lodges merge into one GL instead of two. PHA could be an appendant/concordant body to not lose that legacy. I don't know, it just seems a little too 1805 or 1960s in the south to me and a lot of people. It is almost primarily in the U.S. that the PHA and non-PHA standard is going on and it shouldn't be necessary anymore. If any racists on either side didn't like it, then they'd probably be culled out pretty quick and no longer apart of this fraternity. It's an unnecessary divide in my opinion.



Sounds like a good idea.. but why doesnt GL TX become and appendant body of the PH GL in TX ? Does that still sounds like a good idea ??

I think the relationship need to normalise as one between two Soverign GLs - interventionist policed by lodges at their West Gate. Perhaps the current onerous system arose because GL TX became aware there were subordinate lodges which would block their West Gate?  It's either that or the GLs are control freaks or taking a tiny baby step.. lets hope baby steps soon move to strides...


----------



## Glen Cook (Jan 26, 2017)

CLewey44 said:


> I think Bro Blake is really asking, why is this even the situation still in the 21st century? PHA was brought about out of necessity of those horrible times in America when black men and white men were separated due to a skin pigmentation difference. I really wish we were all under one GL and maybe PHA be an appendant body perhaps. I don't want it to go away because it has such a rich history. I simply want them to merge. Let masons be masons. I don't foresee that happening because it's such a deep tradition. Even though it has no intentions of seeming a little Jim Crowish, it simply does scream 'separate but equal'.


PHA an appendant body?  Thus giving up its sovereignty?  

In most jurisdictions, the brothers of colour would again be a minority in their craft. I'm only a religious minority and haven't faced bigotry since last night. 

The PHA lodges with which I'm familiar have a close relationship with the African American churches. I'm afraid the SGLs have lost that Church connection. 

We have jurisdictions which are shared amongst the Home GLs and a national GL. It's the respect for the other GLs that is the key. The distinctions are maintained with amity.


----------



## MRichard (Jan 26, 2017)

Glen Cook said:


> The PHA lodges with which I'm familiar have a close relationship with the African American churches. I'm afraid the SGLs have lost that Church connection.



Some would argue too close. Blurred lines.


----------



## Glen Cook (Jan 26, 2017)

MRichard said:


> Some would argue too close. Blurred lines.


Umm, yeah. I have seen some posts where the Laying on of Hands was performed at a Masonic meeting.


----------



## CLewey44 (Jan 26, 2017)

Bloke said:


> Sounds like a good idea.. but why doesnt GL TX become and appendant body of the PH GL in TX ? Does that still sounds like a good idea ??




In this regard I would simply say non-PHA masonry had been around longer. It's not a competition but masonry has been around before 1784. I know the point is moot.


----------



## MRichard (Jan 26, 2017)

Glen Cook said:


> Umm, yeah. I have seen some posts where the Laying on of Hands was performed at a Masonic meeting.



I saw the same posts. PHTT


----------



## Dontrell Stroman (Jan 26, 2017)

Can someone answer what the difference between PHA and State GL is ? I guess im a little lost. I thought both practiced the same freemasonry. Is anything different ?

Sent from my LG-LS997 using My Freemasonry mobile app


----------



## Dontrell Stroman (Jan 26, 2017)

Blake Bowden said:


> In Texas, we recognize the Most Worshipful Grand Lodge of Texas and the Most Worshipful Prince Hall Grand Lodge of Texas as equals.
> 
> That being said, every day we receive dozens of messages from those seeking membership. Where do we lead them? Prince Hall is predominately African-American and if you know PHA history, you'll understand why. Mainstream (I hate that term) Freemasonry, had a history of bigotry and racism but is slowly becoming more diverse.
> 
> ...


Thank you for your concern on a divided brotherhood. I share the same thoughts amd concerns.


----------



## MRichard (Jan 26, 2017)

Travelling Man91 said:


> Can someone answer what the difference between PHA and State GL is ? I guess im a little lost. I thought both practiced the same freemasonry. Is anything different ?
> 
> Sent from my LG-LS997 using My Freemasonry mobile app



Don't start.


----------



## Dontrell Stroman (Jan 26, 2017)

MRichard said:


> Don't start.


Im being serious. Other than maybe culture, what is the difference? I have always said masonry is masonry (Meaning regular lodges)


----------



## MRichard (Jan 26, 2017)

Travelling Man91 said:


> Im being serious. Other than maybe culture, what is the difference? I have always said masonry is masonry (Meaning regular lodges)



You answered your own question. Regular masonry is regular masonry regardless of the various labels and whatnot.


----------



## Glen Cook (Jan 26, 2017)

Travelling Man91 said:


> Can someone answer what the difference between PHA and State GL is ? I guess im a little lost. I thought both practiced the same freemasonry. Is anything different ?
> 
> Sent from my LG-LS997 using My Freemasonry mobile app


This will be a somewhat oblique answer:  there are differences in all jurisdictions that can run deeper than ritual. Even between provinces in England there are such.


----------



## Dontrell Stroman (Jan 26, 2017)

There are different cultures within the same GL, so what would a man have to be looking for in order for him to be pointed in PHA direction or vise versa State GL direction ?

Sent from my LG-LS997 using My Freemasonry mobile app


----------



## Dontrell Stroman (Jan 26, 2017)

Glen Cook said:


> This will be a somewhat oblique answer:  there are differences in all jurisdictions that can run deeper than ritual. Even between provinces in England there are such.


That is what I was getting at. I really dont know the difference espically when each Jurisdiction does something a little different regardless if its PHA or GL of State


----------



## Brother JC (Jan 26, 2017)

Glen Cook said:


> Umm, yeah. I have seen some posts where the Laying on of Hands was performed at a Masonic meeting.


I was heard a sitting GM, while opening a constituent lodge, ask his home lodge Chaplain to "get us started with a good old Baptist prayer!"
But that's a whole other discussion.


----------



## MRichard (Jan 26, 2017)

Travelling Man91 said:


> There are different cultures within the same GL, so what would a man have to be looking for in order for him to be pointed in PHA direction or vise versa State GL direction ?
> 
> Sent from my LG-LS997 using My Freemasonry mobile app



That's up to the individual unless he is in certain jurisdictions.


----------



## Dontrell Stroman (Jan 26, 2017)

MRichard said:


> That's up to the individual unless he is in certain jurisdictions.


Fair enough.


----------



## Dontrell Stroman (Jan 26, 2017)

Like TN ...... Wait I didn't just say that. 

Sent from my LG-LS997 using My Freemasonry mobile app


----------



## Dontrell Stroman (Jan 26, 2017)

Brother JC said:


> I was heard a sitting GM, while opening a constituent lodge, ask his home lodge Chaplain to "get us started with a good old Baptist prayer!"
> But that's a whole other discussion.


Ha ha. Doesnt surprise me.


----------



## Dontrell Stroman (Jan 26, 2017)

MRichard said:


> That's up to the individual unless he is in certain jurisdictions.


You know how sad that is ? To tell a man "Hey, I know you would make a good Freemason" but people of your skin color are not allowed.


----------



## Brother JC (Jan 26, 2017)

Travelling Man91 said:


> Im being serious. Other than maybe culture, what is the difference? I have always said masonry is masonry (Meaning regular lodges)


I was fortunate enough to be Raised in a state that already had full recognition. At my first GL Communication I met and sat with the PHA GM. To me, the PHAGLNM has always been a group of Brothers with a different, but equal, lineage. Just like every other Grand Lodge.


----------



## Dontrell Stroman (Jan 26, 2017)

I have a bone to pick. If certian southern GLS dont allow blacks to join their GL and they belive PHA lodges are bogus and clandestine, why do they tell blacks to go check out PHA lodges. If you believe a lodge or GL  isnt legit why would you send somone there ?

Sent from my LG-LS997 using My Freemasonry mobile app


----------



## Dontrell Stroman (Jan 26, 2017)

Brother JC said:


> I was fortunate enough to be Raised in a state that already had full recognition. At my first GL Communication I met and sat with the PHA GM. To me, the PHAGLNM has always been a group of Brothers with a different, but equal, lineage. Just like every other Grand Lodge.


In your opinion, what was different ?


----------



## MRichard (Jan 26, 2017)

Travelling Man91 said:


> I have a bone to pick. If certian southern GLS dont allow blacks to join their GL and they belive PHA lodges are bogus and clandestine, why do they tell blacks to go check out PHA lodges. If you believe a lodge or GL  isnt legit why would you send somone there ?
> 
> Sent from my LG-LS997 using My Freemasonry mobile app



Who said life was fair?


----------



## Dontrell Stroman (Jan 26, 2017)

MRichard said:


> Who said life was fair?


It should be fair ?


----------



## MRichard (Jan 26, 2017)

Travelling Man91 said:


> It should be fair ?



It is what it is.


----------



## goomba (Jan 26, 2017)

PHA GL of BLANK is just another jurisdiction to me.  No different than UGLE or any other grand lodge that is not mine.  It's just a different jurisdiction that my brothers belong to because that is the grand lodge they joined.

Even when I was in a grand lodge that didn't recognize PHA I considered them my brothers!  All regular Masons are our brothers regardless of what grand lodge they belong to.  I am opposed to the idea of a merger as each grand lodge has their own rich history.  Plus it is a constant reminder that even in  the face of hate our craft was able to overcome human ignorance to spread the light of Freemasonry.


----------



## Brother JC (Jan 26, 2017)

Travelling Man91 said:


> In your opinion, what was different ?


I have nothing to compare, it was my Grand Lodge's communication. I have not had the pleasure of visiting a PH jurisdiction yet.


----------



## dfreybur (Jan 27, 2017)

Travelling Man91 said:


> In your opinion, what was different ?



For ritual the differences are about the same as between any two.  Open book or not.  Cipher or written mostly out or not.  A sentence added here or subtracted there.  Scenes added or subtracted from the third degree.  The usual wildly different rod work.  Lodges being fussy about good ritual versus lodges just getting it done to get candidates through.

For other rules and traditions, similar.  Single membership versus allowing as many memberships as you can afford.  Limited number of visits before requiring a petition versus forever visiting.  Gift honorary memberships or not under assorted names.  Grand line advancing every year, every 2 years, not advancing.  Wide variety in recognition lists.

That's in the 3 pairs I have attended.  As more get visited I figure the list would get longer but stabilize.


----------



## SimonM (Jan 27, 2017)

So what you should do is give the potential candidate a list of nearby lodges, both PHA and GLS, and help him understand the style and intrest of the different lodges (observant, etc)?


----------



## MRichard (Jan 27, 2017)

SimonM said:


> So what you should do is give the potential candidate a list of nearby lodges, both PHA and GLS, and help him understand the style and intrest of the different lodges (observant, etc)?



Judgment call. If you already know that the person is interested in one particular regular grand lodge, you might just mention the other grand lodge and proceed accordingly.


----------



## dfreybur (Jan 27, 2017)

MRichard said:


> Who said life was fair?



Life is as fair as the fairness I put onto it and insist upon.


----------



## BullDozer Harrell (Jan 27, 2017)

Interestingly enough, I've recently spoke with a gentlemen in the world who was not only interested in becoming a Mason. Strangely he was very specific about a certain lodge, Oriental. In Illinois, both GLs have subordinate lodges. There's an Oriental#33 and Oriental#68. 
Instead of complicating the situation, i simply gave him this information and suggested that he contact both jurisdictions to discover which one he meant. 
The way I saw it, it wasn't my burden to involve myself too much beyond his doing his own legwork.

A message to Brothers is to supply the information you carry, and leave the rest to the inquirer. 

Android OS Nougat 7.0


----------



## BullDozer Harrell (Jan 27, 2017)

SimonM said:


> So what you should do is give the potential candidate a list of nearby lodges, both PHA and GLS, and help him understand the style and intrest of the different lodges (observant, etc)?


Yes

Android OS Nougat 7.0


----------



## BullDozer Harrell (Jan 27, 2017)

dfreybur said:


> For ritual the differences are about the same as between any two.  Open book or not.  Cipher or written mostly out or not.  A sentence added here or subtracted there.  Scenes added or subtracted from the third degree.  The usual wildly different rod work.  Lodges being fussy about good ritual versus lodges just getting it done to get candidates through.
> 
> For other rules and traditions, similar.  Single membership versus allowing as many memberships as you can afford.  Limited number of visits before requiring a petition versus forever visiting.  Gift honorary memberships or not under assorted names.  Grand line advancing every year, every 2 years, not advancing.  Wide variety in recognition lists.
> 
> That's in the 3 pairs I have attended.  As more get visited I figure the list would get longer but stabilize.


Respectfully those are small differences for lack of a better word. 

Honestly these are variations on a theme to me more than real differences. 

However, i will point out something very contrast between both jurisdictions that i've noticed. It's centering around the OES and prayer. 

In my PH jurisdiction, it's like members of the OES are given a Masonic like status and prayer tends to be overemphasized. Across jurisdictional lines, GL of IL customs tend not to be as reverential of the Adoptive Rite and of prayer.

Oh, and i shouldn't leave out stiff protocol when addressing GLO's. 

99.9% of the time in my jurisdiction, a MW is always a MW and a RW is always a RW. Never just say Brother so& so. Lol





Android OS Nougat 7.0


----------



## goomba (Jan 28, 2017)

BullDozer Harrell said:


> 99.9% of the time in my jurisdiction, a MW is always a MW and a RW is always a RW. Never just say Brother so& so. Lol
> Android OS Nougat 7.0



A number of years ago we were having a weekend practice and masons from the surrounding area were there.  One of them was a PGM who is probably the most humble PGM I've ever seen.  The senior warden was serving lunch to everyone and said "what would you like brother".  The PGM stopped him and thanked him for calling him that.  He said he gets so tired of always being PGM to everyone and always being MW that they forget he is still just their brother.


----------



## the_widows_son (Jan 28, 2017)

Brother JC said:


> I was fortunate enough to be Raised in a state that already had full recognition. At my first GL Communication I met and sat with the PHA GM. To me, the PHAGLNM has always been a group of Brothers with a different, but equal, lineage. Just like every other Grand Lodge.


You were raised in NM? What lodge?

Sent from my SM-G930P using My Freemasonry mobile app


----------



## Brother JC (Jan 28, 2017)

the_widows_son said:


> You were raised in NM? What lodge?


Montezuma #1, affiliated with Cerrillos XIX two-and-a-half months later.


----------



## the_widows_son (Jan 28, 2017)

Nice Im out of Clovis Lodge #40 I was Newly raised last Tuesday, before that I was PHA. 

Sent from my SM-G930P using My Freemasonry mobile app


----------



## CLewey44 (Jan 28, 2017)

the_widows_son said:


> Nice Im out of Clovis Lodge #40 I was Newly raised last Tuesday, before that I was PHA.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930P using My Freemasonry mobile app



Like that uni brother. I use to wear that too.


----------



## Brother JC (Jan 28, 2017)

the_widows_son said:


> Nice Im out of Clovis Lodge #40 I was Newly raised last Tuesday, before that I was PHA.


Welcome to NM, Brother. I used to know Clovis fairly well; I grew up in Roswell and we would drive (very fast) to Clovis to cause trouble.
My interaction with #40 is limited to spirited debates with a certain Brother there.
Oh, and thank you for your service.


----------



## the_widows_son (Jan 28, 2017)

I really appreciate that, When I was PHA we use to go to the Roswell lodge, mainly to do the staircase lecture. I like Roswell I also went out there to get certified on the intoxicalyzer for my job. Let me know if you are ever through these woods, or should I say desert. Would love to fellowship 

Sent from my SM-G930P using My Freemasonry mobile app


----------



## Brother JC (Jan 28, 2017)

I don't get back often, especially south of the 40, but I'll definitely let you know if I do.


----------



## dfreybur (Jan 28, 2017)

the_widows_son said:


> I was Newly raised last Tuesday



Welcome again, and again, to the family thrice adopted Brother.


----------



## the_widows_son (Jan 28, 2017)

dfreybur said:


> Welcome again, and again, to the family thrice adopted Brother.


Thank you Brother

Sent from my SM-G930P using My Freemasonry mobile app


----------



## the_widows_son (Jan 28, 2017)

Brother JC said:


> I don't get back often, especially south of the 40, but I'll definitely let you know if I do.


I hear you bro

Sent from my SM-G930P using My Freemasonry mobile app


----------



## Glen Cook (Jan 28, 2017)

BullDozer Harrell said:


> Interestingly enough, I've recently spoke with a gentlemen in the world who was not only interested in becoming a Mason. Strangely he was very specific about a certain lodge, Oriental. In Illinois, both GLs have subordinate lodges. There's an Oriental#33 and Oriental#68.
> Instead of complicating the situation, i simply gave him this information and suggested that he contact both jurisdictions to discover which one he meant.
> The way I saw it, it wasn't my burden to involve myself too much beyond his doing his own legwork.
> 
> ...


Off topic: I've attended Oriental 33


----------



## dfreybur (Jan 29, 2017)

Glen Cook said:


> Off topic: I've attended Oriental 33



Me too.  They are one of the most active lodges in the Chicago metro area.


----------



## Doubleagle357 (Jan 29, 2017)

Blake Bowden said:


> In Texas, we recognize the Most Worshipful Grand Lodge of Texas and the Most Worshipful Prince Hall Grand Lodge of Texas as equals.
> 
> That being said, every day we receive dozens of messages from those seeking membership. Where do we lead them? Prince Hall is predominately African-American and if you know PHA history, you'll understand why. Mainstream (I hate that term) Freemasonry, had a history of bigotry and racism but is slowly becoming more diverse.
> 
> ...


I understand completely, However, although you may invite me to your home and tell me to make myself at home, this brotherly invite does not mean I should burn my house down.


----------



## Dontrell Stroman (Jan 30, 2017)

the_widows_son said:


> Nice Im out of Clovis Lodge #40 I was Newly raised last Tuesday, before that I was PHA.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930P using My Freemasonry mobile app


If you don't mind me asking, why did you leave your PHA lodge ?


----------



## the_widows_son (Jan 30, 2017)

Travelling Man91 said:


> If you don't mind me asking, why did you leave your PHA lodge ?


I left because the Prince Hall jurisdiction I was in was not conducive to the Freemasonry that I needed in order to build my inner temple. I have nothing against Prince Hall Freemasonry as a whole. Because I was raised right and I earned everything that I got. The NM jurisdiction that i demitted to from the WA jurisdiction did not want to do things in Due and ancient form. I spent 7 yrs trying to help where I could but brothers were stuck in there ways. I won't speak on the many lodge indiscretions on here. But I had to fight like hell just to get out. When I did get out those brothers who worked with me started supplanting my lawful undertakings. I saw how AF&AM in this state standards to the ritual and how seriously they excercise the bylaws and the respect they give their Brothers. So I wanted to go where my hardwork and where I can grow as an upright Man and Mason and have Brothers that show commitment and comraderie. I'll forget in Okinawa the start of my path with PHA and all the upright brothers I looked up to in the start of my  military career all the ncos and SNCOs and my Captain that led us in Camp Bucca Iraq all sparked my intrest on this path. But I'm proud of the moves I have made and am looking forward to the next chapter in my life and I know that whether or not you are PHA or State you have to find what you feel is comfortable whether moving lodges or jurisdictions. At the end of the day you have to go to that undiscovered coutry where no traveler returns by yourself. 

Sent from my SM-G930P using My Freemasonry mobile app


----------



## Glen Cook (Jan 30, 2017)

Brother JC said:


> Welcome to NM, Brother. I used to know Clovis fairly well; I grew up in Roswell and we would drive (very fast) to Clovis to cause trouble.
> My interaction with #40 is limited to spirited debates with a certain Brother there.
> Oh, and thank you for your service.


My Mom's family was from Portales. I would go over there in summers


----------



## the_widows_son (Jan 30, 2017)

Really it is a small world. I actually live out there, I like the quiet atmosphere I chat with a few of the brothers from Portales lodge from time to time. 

Sent from my SM-G930P using My Freemasonry mobile app


----------



## Brother JC (Jan 31, 2017)

Glen Cook said:


> My Mom's family was from Portales. I would go over there in summers


Nice, warm summers.


----------



## Glen Cook (Jan 31, 2017)

Brother JC said:


> Nice, warm summers.


We lived in OK. Without AC.


----------



## Blake Bowden (Jan 31, 2017)

Great discussion and feedback.


----------



## Brother JC (Jan 31, 2017)

Glen Cook said:


> We lived in OK. Without AC.


Touché.


----------

