# Considering



## ¤Jerr (Mar 22, 2015)

I'm considering to become a mason, im 19 and have take pride in helping people when my abilities allow me, although I may turn away more than I should, I want to know the vendors of joining the brotherhood, I am not religious neither am I strongly educated, I wear a ring because I believe my faith to be at one with the brotherhood. Meaning I do believe in 1 grand creator and I look to myself to find the answers I need to improve daily,
I do worry about the judgment people at give me if I consider this option openly and have no one to ask for true advice


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## ¤Jerr (Mar 22, 2015)

hello, and thanks. West London region of england,


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## Ripcord22A (Mar 22, 2015)

Do u mean you wear a Masonic ring?


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## ¤Jerr (Mar 23, 2015)

Yeah..


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## Ripcord22A (Mar 23, 2015)

And your not yet a mason?  Ive heard people make the argument that, "well people.wear spirts jerserys and no one.mistakes them for pro athletes"...and that's true but let a young man wear a high school jersery and everyone will think he goes to and plays for that school.  What i am saying is you havent earend the "RITE" to wear that ring.  Its not like wearing the hoodie of ur favorite college hoping you get accepted.  Please respect our craft and take it off until you have been raised


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## Ripcord22A (Mar 23, 2015)

Also you say you are from England but your English is a little off where are you from originally?


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## ¤Jerr (Mar 23, 2015)

@jdmadse nxraterlake211
I disagree with ur comment although I respect the craft, I also respect the morals and the methods, being RESPECTFUL and helpful to anyone in need, mason or not, so I will carry the meaning with me . Also as I previously stated, I am not educated. Ur judgement shows a lack of respect, any advice ur offering me I would kindly further decline and will mistake u for stuborn. You should be welcoming of my generation showing your guild an intrest, not trying to push us away. That's just rude and closed minded,


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## ¤Jerr (Mar 23, 2015)

Ur response shows ur more interested in being a slave to symbolism rather than helping others


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## Ripcord22A (Mar 23, 2015)

Your generation?  Im only30 bud.  I was just asking where your originally from.  

It its my duty as a Master Mason to keep a watchful eye for cowans and evesdropers so i just wanted to make sure you are genuine.  

And as far as my example if you showed up at a lodge seeking a petition i can almost guarantee they would admonish you for wearing that which you haven't earned.  Also I thought the English didn't wear rings and it was a mainly American thing?


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## ¤Jerr (Mar 23, 2015)

My generation, yes, that's an 11 year diffrence..
Iv said where im from, ur ignorence is bliss. So is ur judgment who my personal life.

Its ur duty to make new people surely feel welcome, not try n find reasons to push is away? I would like to question how genuine you are as your only concern has been about a band around my finger and not the motive Wichita u seemed to of ignored , 

Why would my country define how I would show faith and belief for what I believe true ? 
And I believe if a mason was to see me wearing a ring they would probably hold concern for my interstate..


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## dfreybur (Mar 23, 2015)

¤Jerr said:


> My generation, yes, that's an 11 year diffrence..



Ah the exuberance of youth when only a couple of centuries seemed like a long time.  ;^)



> Why would my country define ...



Different regions of the world have different methods to approach a lodge.  Were I to tell you how to approach a lodge in the US it would be of no help to you.



> And I believe if a mason was to see me wearing a ring they would probably hold concern for my interstate..



Believe as you wish.  You wear a symbol of rank not earned and write about respect?  When you do approach a lodge according to the method of your local jurisdiction I recommend not wearing a symbol that says you have already experienced the degrees and done the work required between your degrees.

http://www.ugle.org.uk/becoming-a-mason


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## pointwithinacircle2 (Mar 23, 2015)

¤Jerr said:


> Its ur duty to make new people surely feel welcome, not try n find reasons to push is away?


Please do not with feel that it is your responsibility to tell me my duty.  It is never necessary for me to find reasons to push prospective Masons away.  It is however necessary for prospective Masons to prove that they are worthy and well qualified.


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## Warrior1256 (Mar 23, 2015)

pointwithinacircle2 said:


> Please do not with feel that it is your responsibility to tell me my duty.  It is never necessary for me to find reasons to push prospective Masons away.  It is however necessary for prospective Masons to prove that they are worthy and well qualified.


Exactly!


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## caution22113 (Mar 23, 2015)

¤Jerr said:


> Ur response shows ur more interested in being a slave to symbolism rather than helping others


Being a "slave to symbolism" has nothing to do with a Mason taking offense to you wearing emblems you have neither earned the right to wear, nor understand the meanings of the symbols you display. Your statement "a slave to symbolism" is confusing to me. What do you think Masonry is? 

As far as your ring goes, legally, you can wear whatever you spend your money on. Morally, why would you display something you do not understand. Masonry is not something that you can learn from reading a book or watching others. Masonry has to be experienced.


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## ¤Jerr (Mar 24, 2015)

And as iv stated already this is to MY understanding. And don't lie in ur response .

The square, which symbolizes a state of moral rectitude. (a change I am undergoing)

"The compasses symbolize an implement of virtue by which we
     are taught to circumscribe (create a boundary around) our passions
     and keep our desires within due bounds."
This meaning I read, pretty self explanitory.. keep to boundaries in what u do, don't cross a line to disrespect another

But to wear the logo as a whole is to represent Freemasonry as a whole.. so I know im within my personal jurisdiction , as if I say a man, woman child, mason or not, in trouble, I would do my best to help. 
In all honesty, how many of you would do the same. No one has treated me with any respect yet. And this is the internet.


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## caution22113 (Mar 24, 2015)

You sir, are a Cowan, and I shall have no further involvement in this thread. Good luck, and God bless.


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## pointwithinacircle2 (Mar 24, 2015)

I do not understand why you wish to join an organization where you will be unhappy.  The Brothers here have offered you the truth and you have responded by calling them disrespectful and suggesting that they are liars.  

Cube


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## phulseapple (Mar 24, 2015)

Hello Jerr - Welcome to the boards.  It is always great having new and young members.  I, for one, hope you will post more questions.  

As for your current inquiry, at this point in time, you have not gone through the three degrees of Craft Masonry and are therefore not technically entitled to wear a Masonic ring.  Continuing to do so is considered disrespectful to those of us who have done the work associated with those degrees.  Since you indicate that you respect the craft, I am sure you can see the contradiction to your actions.  Whatever you may have read is not a substitute for the actual experience of working through the degrees.  Masonry is NOT something you can simply get by reading it in a book and applying your understanding to it.  While I am sure you have the qualifications to petition for membership, your responses here in this particular thread lead me to question whether or not your intentions are sincere.  Your responses also exhibit an air of immaturity.  All of us, regardless of our current stage in life, had at one point a similar level of immaturity.  If you are indeed sincere in your intentions, I urge you to reflect on how, as well as what, you have presented here.  One of the most difficult things in Masonry is taking an HONEST look inward and correcting your own weaknesses.


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## ¤Jerr (Mar 24, 2015)

As iv stated my reason for wanting to join. I believe that this world needs more people to connect in a more helpful manor and to meet people I would of thaught to have righteous mortals , I have come here to seek advice of the benefits of joining the brotherhood, not for people to pick and choose what part of my query they are going to reply to, surely my personal decisions do not interstellar you,  but im offering an expirienced member of the brotherhood to share some light on what I could be in for and the choice I should make, if its full of inconsiderate judgmental, and ignorent beings such as urselves I will pass,
If it is an oppertinuty to offer and recieve guidence, with other people who are grown up (in mentality, not just with age) and live life respecting 1 another and willing to pass down the lessons they have learnt in life, how to be healthy and happy rather than just greedy and wealthy like religions these days.. sign me up, here's ur opertunity to convince a younger generation this is a good, and meaningful way of life. Thanku


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## ¤Jerr (Mar 24, 2015)

@caution, be that your only input ? Or are u affraid I will see your behaviour to disrespectful and immoral too?


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## ¤Jerr (Mar 24, 2015)

@phulse in that case I will respect your guild and come back to the gift I was left. Though to call me immature when all I have so far recoeved is judgment and forms of persecution by your brothers is immature of you in my eyes. You do t know my past or the changes im making to correct certain ways of life. But I will stand up for myself if Somone is In the wrong.


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## phulseapple (Mar 24, 2015)

The opening post in this thread does not include a question of any sort, simply statements nor do I see any resemblance of a question in any of your replies.  What exactly is it you are looking for?    If you clearly state what information you are seeking, maybe you will get better answers.  You said "If it is an oppertinuty to offer and recieve guidence,".   Lashing out at every response you receive, makes it appear that you have some sort of issue with being presented with that which you do not want to hear. Each response here has been accurate and offers guidance, it may just not be what you want to hear because it apparently does not fit your purpose.  Freemasonry is NOT easy and it is NOT for everyone.  It requires you to take an honest, critical and sometimes harsh look at yourself as well as accepting the constructive criticism of others.  Those of you of the "Me Me Me" generation who are looking for what you can get out of joining, will be sorely disappointed.


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## Bro. Allen (Mar 24, 2015)

Brethren, this guy is simply a troll.  He knows that what he's saying will make us react.  I think everyone should just stop responding to this individual.


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## Ripcord22A (Mar 24, 2015)

I enjoy trolli.g trolls


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## ¤Jerr (Mar 24, 2015)

U guys r the trolls.


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## ¤Jerr (Mar 24, 2015)

N saying im a 'me me me' kind of person is an unfair judgment and wro g, against anything iv said about myself so far. Iv already talked myself down. All u had to do was tell me why it would be good. But maybe ur the same as every other religious cult, after more money and ways to be greedy of the "poor and weak" and show urselfs as almighty as some pathetic front. If u respond to this post. You are lower than me. And im nothing special, let bygones be gone.


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## phulseapple (Mar 24, 2015)

Dropping a lot of accusations there friend.  Got anything of substance to back that up with?  I mean you cannot come into a forum dedicated to a specific topic, drop accusations about that topic and then cry foul when you are proven wrong or otherwise called out.  Calling us a cult is not only offensive, but downright incorrect.  It PROVES without a doubt that you have no idea what you are talking about.


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## crono782 (Mar 24, 2015)

Let me take this opportunity to reset the thread as it has gotten off topic and off attitude.

My advice if you are looking to join, is to be able to take a long hard look at yourself and realize that there is plenty to be improved upon. Any man who thinks himself perfect will not benefit, conversely a wicked man who is not able to be improved would likewise gain nothing. Being able to stop, take a breath and objectively evaluate his character, moral makeup, temperance, and fortitude is often the crux of what makes Masons better men. You may see some of the responses harsh, but learning to take away grains of goodness from even the most staunch of views opposed to yours will surely sharpen your mind and soften your heart. Do not feel as though the men here want to play you as the "bad guy", but also do not consider yourself a victim for both are fruitless thoughts. 

As for the ring... Most, if not all, Freemasons are cognitively aware of the change that has taken place in their lives as a result of Freemasonry beginning with the ritual degrees and continuing with self evaluation. For them, it is quite like a trial by fire in the mind and heart. Such a transformation for us is symbolized by the square and compass or other symbols wrought into rings and other such. To the lot of us, the regalia we sport represents a very personal journey that should not be taken lightly. Also picture yourself should you one day become a master, that ring will mean something wholly different. Why wear it when the true meaning (not in the texts) must be revealed to yourself by yourself at the appropriate time. 

My advice to you is to take a step back and realize that this is the Internet and men are men, however Freemasonry is unlike the rest of society. When we admonish you to stop and evaluate yourself or your statements, we are not simply trying to stifle you, but to literally attempt to get you to take a hard look at how you interact with the world as it will surely change over time with experience.

Seriously though, slow down and state plainly your questions so they are not misconstrued (which is easy to happen on a forum). I myself am only 32 and I have learned that humbleness and humility go a long way to developing into greatness.

DQ
/mod


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## ¤Jerr (Mar 24, 2015)

Phulse , uv just copied my every response to people accusations against me, I never once said I was perfect.

One of my posts even says I am looking to further better myself, im not an educated person, tho im not dumb either iv been through slot as im sure u all have, and I would be untreated to learn new and better ways of dealing with life's issues aswell as being morraly stable to continue the life I find comfortable and happy.


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## ¤Jerr (Mar 24, 2015)

My question still remains the same.. what would I benefit from by joining the guildl, I have not got slot of education, though im a fast learner. I have a high standard of moralls in my life. And I do generally love people, and anyone I meet in the real world I tend to have great bonds with them almost instantaneously and this makes it easy to learn little lessons in life..


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## phulseapple (Mar 24, 2015)

Now there is a question, and a right good one at that. It is, however, one that has no one, single, correct answer. Each man gets something that only he can quantify. What I get out of Masonry can be similar to but not necessarily identical to anyone else. I, personally, have gotten some very meaningful and genuine friendships from my membership. I have also gained a lot of respect for the views of others and how to lead a more productive life. I have learned to have more trust in those who are not only fellow brothers, but also those in my life that truly matter.   All of that may seem trivial others,however it is a huge thing to me. What I have gained is a natural byproduct of my membership in this Fraternity. I am around men who may have a different view than I do, but are upright and Good people. When you are around those who have a similar goal, it makes improving yourself just a bit easier. That is not to say that the work is simple by any means. It gives you that "little bit more" to make you strive to the best that you can and then some.  What would you get out of it should you become a member? I cannot answer that. You alone would have to answer that for yourself.

I hope that this was in line with what you were looking for. I do still stand by my previous responses though. They are the types of thing you do need to take into account when considering whether Freemasonry is "right" for you and it is not "right" for everyone. My lodge encouraged some guys to look elsewhere or to reevaluate their reasons for seeking membership. They were all good and decent people, but they did not, at the time we were meeting with them, have a firm understanding of what the Fraternity is and what would be expected of them if they were to join my lodge. We are a lodge that holds to tradition and adheres to the ritual in a more strict manner. We do not see ourselves as "better" or "more right" than other lodges, it is just what we feel is important to us.


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## Mike Martin (Mar 25, 2015)

¤Jerr said:


> My question still remains the same.. what would I benefit from by joining the guildl, I have not got slot of education, though im a fast learner. I have a high standard of moralls in my life. And I do generally love people, and anyone I meet in the real world I tend to have great bonds with them almost instantaneously and this makes it easy to learn little lessons in life..


Hello there,
The problem that you have come across so far is that you are on an Internet Forum and we Freemasons who use these are probably too used to people coming onto them and misrepresenting themselves. To be honest your first posts did look a bit like that and so my American brothers took it the wrong way and sadly you replied in kind which just riled them up even more. I can see fault on both sides but there is no real harm done and all your slightly bruised egs can be easily fixed by just a couple of apologies.

As you are 19 you cannot join a Lodge in England yet, unless that Lodge wished to apply for a special dispensation asking the Grand Secretary if you can be Initiated below the minimum age. I would suggest that this would not be helpful to you, as you have a couple of years in which to become more familiar with the Craft and also to meet a Proposer and Seconder who would be the men who would introduce you to a Lodge.

It is obvious from your previous postings that you have done a bit of research on the masonic square and compass but however I can tell you that you haven't got the whole picture, there is a lot more to it than what you've quoted and this understanding will only come through the degree ceremonies and familiaity with the Lectures that go with them. However, you need to understand that although the symbolism and ceremonies are at the very core of the Freemasonry they are not its total point. It is a fraternity, that is a fellowship, made up of men from ALL backgrounds (religious, ethnic and social) who have their love of humanity and each other (not gay, brotherly) very high on their personal agendas. We rub off on each other and over the course of time become unshakeable friends all having the common experience of Freemasonry at the heart of our friendships.  This friendship based on this common experience can even extend beyond national boundaries.

My American brethren are right about one thing, we are not impressed by or happy about non-Masons wearing the insignia of the Craft as they are not beholden to behave in an appropriate manner as men and Masons. This has become even more of an issue since certain prominent US Rap artists (such as JayZ, Lil Wayne & Co) have made a lot of money out of selling gear emblazoned with it.

If you are serious about your wish to join a Lodge I am willing to correspond with you about it, my own Lodge meets in St James' (SW1) and so if I feel that you would benefit the Lodge and that it would benefit you I could act as your Proposer at some future point.

Mike


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## Ripcord22A (Mar 25, 2015)

Bro Mike I was waiting for your input...thank you


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## MRichard (Mar 26, 2015)

Once a candidate is initiated as an Entered Apprentice, he still does not earn the right to wear the insignia of the craft. The same holds true after you are passed to the degree of a Fellowcraft (but there is a Fellowcraft ring you can wear). You earn the right after you are raised to the sublime degree of a Master Mason. That is why the brethren were upset when you stated that you were a ring bearing the insignia of the craft.

I see people do it all the time on Facebook when they are asking how to join and they have a masonic avatar. First, you need to remove that before we can talk. They probably didn't know any better but they do once I bring it to their attention.


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## Mike Martin (Mar 27, 2015)

MRichard said:


> Once a candidate is initiated as an Entered Apprentice, he still does not earn the right to wear the insignia of the craft. The same holds true after you are passed to the degree of a Fellowcraft (but there is a Fellowcraft ring you can wear). You earn the right after you are raised to the sublime degree of a Master Mason. That is why the brethren were upset when you stated that you were a ring bearing the insignia of the craft..


 
While I understand that this is the case in many US Grand Lodges it is not true here in England. Once a man has been Initiated he is a Freemason and is entitled to wear the S&C emblem. However, we would encourage him not to do so until he has enough experience and knowledge of Freemasonry to be able to sensibly handle questions from non-Masons.


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## MRichard (Mar 27, 2015)

Mike Martin said:


> While I understand that this is the case in many US Grand Lodges it is not true here in England. Once a man has been Initiated he is a Freemason and is entitled to wear the S&C emblem. However, we would encourage him not to do so until he has enough experience and knowledge of Freemasonry to be able to sensibly handle questions from non-Masons.



Maybe it is more of an unofficial thing but seeing that anyone can stop you before you become a Master Mason, it's advice that I would follow.


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## dfreybur (Mar 27, 2015)

MRichard said:


> Maybe it is more of an unofficial thing but seeing that anyone can stop you before you become a Master Mason, it's advice that I would follow.



For a symbol to be justly worn it needs to be earned, there is sense in allowing EAs to wear the symbol of the EA.  I have seen EA lapel pins passed from brother to brother as they progress through their degrees but jewelry with the EA symbol is very rare.  I'm not sure I've ever seen an FC symbol just heard it described in the lecture and proficiency.

Official versus tradition does vary by state.  It even varies by GM as the EA symbol pins I have seen were handed out by a now PGM in one of my jurisdictions.


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## pointwithinacircle2 (Mar 27, 2015)

Fellowcraft paraphernalia is easier to find in some jurisdictions than others.  For instance this fine drinking mug.


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## dfreybur (Mar 27, 2015)

The EA symbol I have seen is the one described in the lecture not the S&C variation.  So the FC symbol I had in mind is the one described in the lecture not the S&C variation.  One of my lodges has an altar with the S&C in that arrangement.  It's a nice curiosity.

I love the mug!


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## Wbro.TimStreeter (Mar 27, 2015)

You have to be 21


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## Warrior1256 (Mar 29, 2015)

caution22113 said:


> You sir, are a Cowan, and I shall have no further involvement in this thread. Good luck, and God bless.


Same here!


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