# Challenges on the street



## lmeeks357

I love my pha brothers, and I also like when they challenge a brother everytime they see light. I for one don't have a problem with it but a lot of my 4 letter brothers think its ridiculous what u brothers think?  It personally ceeps me sharp for example,  a pha brother saw my ring and said , "what if I took the screw out of that,  what would happen" lol i looked at that brother like he had a booger in his nose . Lol but I love old school they can teach u a thing or too 

357


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## bupton52

lmeeks357 said:


> I love my pha brothers, and I also like when they challenge a brother everytime they see light. I for one don't have a problem with it but a lot of my 4 letter brothers think its ridiculous what u brothers think?  It personally ceeps me sharp for example,  a pha brother saw my ring and said , "what if I took the screw out of that,  what would happen" lol i looked at that brother like he had a booger in his nose . Lol but I love old school they can teach u a thing or too
> 
> 357




I personally don't respond to any challenges like that. It is not something that is taught ritualistically. Every jurisdiction has something "different" that they do, so how does he know that what he is learning at his home is the same thing that you do in yours? How will that brother react when you don't know the answer to his question? When someone approaches me with that, I will gladly invite him to our instruction meetings and we can sharpen each other in the lodge. Also, "4 letter" is just not an accurate term.


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## lmeeks357

Well in my particular district brothers go by three or four letter, n what i was taught , u should never leave a brother the way you found em , for me it really doesnt matter rather they do or don't , knowledge is knowledge and if a brother believes he has somthing to offer regardless on how its presented I'm all ears,  if its masonic it can't hurt brother.  But as I stated before it really don't matter rather they do ir don't but pha where I'm from Is always doing that, of course there more militant also in there work and I find in intriguing

357


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## brother josh

Willing to be tried


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## lmeeks357

And never denied and willing to be tried again ;-)

357


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## youth1

Never heard that before! Take the screw out? Lol
I gotta find out about that

Pioneer Lodge #1


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## lmeeks357

U like that huh lol yea it blew my mind too bro !

357


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## youth1

You got me thinking about calling my WM!  

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## youth1

Also, the term 3 letter / 4 letter is common talk in PHA lodges. At least from my history stand point


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## crono782

Weird. Wonder what they call non-PHA in states like Cali, Alabama, Georgia, Florida, Indiana, and many others that are F&AM....


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## youth1

Im not sure what others call us but as for PHA it shortens the conversations for us by saying 3's or 4's
But respect for the fraternity is #1

Pioneer Lodge #1


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## bupton52

youth1 said:


> Im not sure what others call us but as for PHA it shortens the conversations for us by saying 3's or 4's
> But respect for the fraternity is #1
> 
> Pioneer Lodge #1



That is not how it is in every PHA jurisdiction.


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## lmeeks357

Of course brother 

Omg thank you!  Lol mines too and I'm 4 letter I'm not even pha and I know that respectively from history of course

And bro youth call him lol I have plenty more brother lol 

357


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## brother josh

In ky we call ph brothers sadly it has taken so long 


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## BroBook

lmeeks357 said:


> Well in my particular district brothers go by three or four letter, n what i was taught , u should never leave a brother the way you found em , for me it really doesnt matter rather they do or don't , knowledge is knowledge and if a brother believes he has somthing to offer regardless on how its presented I'm all ears,  if its masonic it can't hurt brother.  But as I stated before it really don't matter rather they do ir don't but pha where I'm from Is always doing that, of course there more militant also in there work and I find in intriguing
> 
> 357



Well I am Prince Hall from Florida we use 3&4 because at one time we were one group,the leaders fell out with each what happened depends on who is telling the story one group goes by I think the original name Most Worshipful Union Grand lodge f&am Prince hall affiliated & the other became Most Worshipful Prince hall Grand lodge af&am 


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## bupton52

Most Worshipful Prince Hall Grand Lodge of Florida are not Prince Hall masons. 

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## bupton52

There are no AF&AM PHGLs except for Liberia. 

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## lmeeks357

Brobook where u hail from?

357


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## bupton52

I can see why it would be easy for our GL of State brothers to be confused. 

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## lmeeks357

Yea bro history is what we go by 

You guys associate with the shriners ? I hear the blue house don't get along with those guys

357


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## bupton52

Everything is cool as far as I know. In Texas this is around thr time that they start having their galas and banquets. 

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## BroBook

Wright #85 according to legend they the grand lodge has both charters, I was not aware of the controversy until years later lately have been hearing strange things about source of the charter being fought over, really considering going what I hear now being referred to as mainstream , not really sure.


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## BroBook

bupton52 said:


> There are no AF&AM PHGLs except for Liberia.
> 
> My Freemasonry HD



Says who ?


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## lmeeks357

Oh wow ! They fighting over the charter? Who was presented with it first? 

357


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## BroBook

lmeeks357 said:


> Oh wow ! They fighting over the charter? Who was presented with it first?
> 
> 357



This dispute started way before my time I read a paper called the Living schism some of the grand officers took the charter for what they call um Masonic conduct by the grand and others took refuge under somebody 


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## lmeeks357

Wow 

357


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## bupton52

BroBook said:


> Says who ?
> 
> 
> My Freemasonry HD



Says the COGM and every PH jurisdiction in the United States and overseas.


S&F
Bro. Byron Upton


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## bupton52

http://www.conferenceofgrandmasterspha.org/


S&F
Bro. Byron Upton


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## lmeeks357

York rite is losing members seems like every new mm is going Scottish , I know I get blasted when I say I plan on going Scottish 

357


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## BroBook

bupton52 said:


> http://www.conferenceofgrandmasterspha.org/
> 
> 
> S&F
> Bro. Byron Upton



Thanks for the link my brother more help than you know!!


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## bupton52

BroBook said:


> Thanks for the link my brother more help than you know!!
> 
> 
> My Freemasonry HD



No problem

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## lmeeks357

Why would phs wait a whole year to raise there brothers? I think that's too long

Pha I ment

357


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## Brother JC

There are a number of "George Washington" Lodges and Jurisdictions that take their time with the Degrees, often a year between each one. It allows the new Brother to study the lessons and truly understand the meaning of the symbols and tools of the Degree he has received. Often, a paper is required before the next Degree.


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## dfreybur

trysquare said:


> Often, a paper is required before the next Degree.



I've talked to brothers who had to do that while going through their degrees in a European lodge.  Has anyone heard of it in the Americas?  Doing a research paper is a very different kind of education than memorizing a proficiency.


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## lmeeks357

Me personally I never heard of it 

357


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## BroBook

lmeeks357 said:


> Brobook where u hail from?
> 
> 357



Wright #85 out of warrington fl 1948 , but I am being told there are no 4 letter prince hall masons in fl I rode for real.


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## BroBook

dfreybur said:


> I've talked to brothers who had to do that while going through their degrees in a European lodge.  Has anyone heard of it in the Americas?  Doing a research paper is a very different kind of education than memorizing a proficiency.



I wonder about _** (ritual reference removed by mod) **_ Or *_* (ritual reference removed by mod) **_

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## bupton52

BroBook said:


> Wright #85 out of warrington fl 1948 , but I am being told there are no 4 letter prince hall masons in fl I rode for real.
> 
> 
> My Freemasonry HD



There is no such thing as a "4 Letter" Prince Hall Mason in the United States. Feel free to inbox me if you have any questions.


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## lmeeks357

Ok ima stop this right now because the subject has been going on for too long my brothers smh lol ok ph is f&am but technically they are af&am because of there charter over seas in England , prince hall waited 9 years for this charter along with 14 other brothers so its yes and no according how deep you brothers want to go n if I'm wrong then I challenge any brother too dispute this I was pha before af&am and that's wat I was taught if its wrong then I stand corrected 

357


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## bupton52

lmeeks357 said:


> I was pha before af&am and that's wat I was taught if its wrong then I stand corrected
> 
> 357



You were PHA before you were recently raised? Why did you leave?


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## BroBook

BroBook said:


> I wonder about _** (ritual reference removed by mod) **_ Or *_* (ritual reference removed by mod) **_
> 
> My Freemasonry HD



Thanks my brother and to the others on the this forum, I meant to say 
When I came in back in the day1984 my people required it verbatim because you can not decide who will try you or how! I try to stay ready to explain what I believe & why.


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## lmeeks357

Long story brother

357


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## lmeeks357

Lonnng story brother smh 

357


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## Brother JC

dfreybur said:


> I've talked to brothers who had to do that while going through their degrees in a European lodge.  Has anyone heard of it in the Americas?  Doing a research paper is a very different kind of education than memorizing a proficiency.


Brother Doug, at least two TO Lodges I know of do it. The paper is in addition to the memorization required by their GL.


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## Brother JC

lmeeks357 said:


> Ok ima stop this right now because the subject has been going on for too long my brothers smh lol ok ph is f&am but technically they are af&am because of there charter over seas in England , prince hall waited 9 years for this charter along with 14 other brothers so its yes and no according how deep you brothers want to go n if I'm wrong then I challenge any brother too dispute this I was pha before af&am and that's wat I was taught if its wrong then I stand corrected
> 
> 357


At the time African Lodge 459 was chartered there were two Grand Lodges working in England; the Premier Grand Lodge and the Ancient Grand Lodge. AL 459 was chartered by the Premier Grand Lodge, which is why the recognized Prince Hall GLs (those tracing directly back to AL 459) today use F&AM (if they use initials at all). "George Washington" Grand Lodges have varied legacies; those that trace to the Premier GL usually use F&AM, those that trace to the Ancient GL generally use AF&AM.
The District of Columbia and South Carolina have different designations, and I will let someone else decipher why.

(Once again posting this link of US GLs for reference.)


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## Blake Bowden

I've been tried a couple of times out of the blue. The first time I blew it. I was recently Raised and was on a tour of Israel when a guy in the van saw my ring and proceeded to test me. I got through it but explained that I had yet to turn in my work. I passed with flying colors a couple of years later when I was tried again. 

What's funny is that many non-Masons think it's possible to simply google our modes of recognition or words, but there's so much more to it than physical actions and/or what we say. google doesn't make a man a Mason.


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## MarkR

dfreybur said:


> I've talked to brothers who had to do that while going through their degrees in a European lodge.  Has anyone heard of it in the Americas?  Doing a research paper is a very different kind of education than memorizing a proficiency.


There's a "Traditional Observance" lodge in the Twin Cities that does this.


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## BroBook

Blake Bowden said:


> I've been tried a couple of times out of the blue. The first time I blew it. I was recently Raised and was on a tour of Israel when a guy in the van saw my ring and proceeded to test me. I got through it but explained that I had yet to turn in my work. I passed with flying colors a couple of years later when I was tried again.
> 
> What's funny is that many non-Masons think it's possible to simply google our modes of recognition or words, but there's so much more to it than physical actions and/or what we say. google doesn't make a man a Mason.



Yes brother I was told a long time ago and it is true if you did not come through the door those who did can tell .

P.S. may our Great God bless you and who ever helps you with this sight I love this forum, I have never had the opportunity to have these kinds of 
Discourses with such a wide variety of Brothers

SMIB BroBook


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## BroBook

trysquare said:


> At the time African Lodge 459 was chartered there were two Grand Lodges working in England; the Premier Grand Lodge and the Ancient Grand Lodge. AL 459 was chartered by the Premier Grand Lodge, which is why the recognized Prince Hall GLs (those tracing directly back to AL 459) today use F&AM (if they use initials at all). "George Washington" Grand Lodges have varied legacies; those that trace to the Premier GL usually use F&AM, those that trace to the Ancient GL generally use AF&AM.
> The District of Columbia and South Carolina have different designations, and I will let someone else decipher why.
> 
> (Once again posting this link of US GLs for reference.)



That is interesting there was some type schism between 1717 & 1777 ? Any idea what happened?


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## bupton52

BroBook said:


> That is interesting there was some type schism between 1717 & 1777 ? Any idea what happened?
> 
> 
> My Freemasonry HD


The Athol Grand Lodge, or Grand Lodge of Ancient Masons, had formed in England several decades after the formation of the Grand Lodge of England, which dates to 1717.http://forum.mastermason.com/RTE_textarea.asp?mode=reply&ID=1954#_edn1  The exact date of the founding of the Athol Grand Lodge is not known due to “the carelessness with which Masonic history was written.” The Grand Lodge of England and the Athol Grand Lodge were often bitter rivals and the Athols described the Grand Lodge of England as “Modern Masons.”  This was meant to be a derogatory term, in that the Athols felt themselves to be “Ancient” and, therefore, more in line with the old traditions, rituals, and teachings of Freemasonry.  In 1813, these two Grand Lodges eventually united to form the current United Grand Lodge of Ancient Free and Accepted Masons of England, but not before the rivalry had spread to the American Colonies and, thus, to the new United States of America.  Having their roots in York, England, the Ancients are often referred to as York Masons or Ancient York Masons.  It is important to note that the York Masons and the Modern Masons refused to recognize one another as Masons and both parties viewed the other as innovators and invaders.
__http://forum.mastermason.com/RTE_textarea.asp?mode=reply&ID=1954#_ednref1Mackey, Albert G. _The History of Freemasonry._ New York: The Masonic History Company, 1898, pp. 1104-1134.

Mackey, Albert G. _The History of Freemasonry in South Carolina,_ Columbia, SC: South Carolina Steam Power Press, 1861, p. 61.


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## lmeeks357

You can't deny truth and u sure can't deny history

357


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## bupton52

Also @lmeeks357 I found this:

Incidentally, there are two jurisdictions which use neither F&AM nor AF&AM: The District of Columbia uses FAAM, and South Carolina uses AFM. Again, these are distinctions without any real difference.
Various suppositions are made about "four-letter" Lodges vs. "three-letter" Lodges and relationships to Prince Hall (PHA) Masonry and issues of recognition, but these are entirely unfounded.

http://www.themasonictrowel.com/Articles/General/lodge_files/difference_between_lodges.htm


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## BroBook

bupton52 said:


> The Athol Grand Lodge, or Grand Lodge of Ancient Masons, had formed in England several decades after the formation of the Grand Lodge of England, which dates to 1717.http://forum.mastermason.com/RTE_textarea.asp?mode=reply&ID=1954#_edn1  The exact date of the founding of the Athol Grand Lodge is not known due to â€œthe carelessness with which Masonic history was written.â€ The Grand Lodge of England and the Athol Grand Lodge were often bitter rivals and the Athols described the Grand Lodge of England as â€œModern Masons.â€  This was meant to be a derogatory term, in that the Athols felt themselves to be â€œAncientâ€ and, therefore, more in line with the old traditions, rituals, and teachings of Freemasonry.  In 1813, these two Grand Lodges eventually united to form the current United Grand Lodge of Ancient Free and Accepted Masons of England, but not before the rivalry had spread to the American Colonies and, thus, to the new United States of America.  Having their roots in York, England, the Ancients are often referred to as York Masons or Ancient York Masons.  It is important to note that the York Masons and the Modern Masons refused to recognize one another as Masons and both parties viewed the other as innovators and invaders.
> __http://forum.mastermason.com/RTE_textarea.asp?mode=reply&ID=1954#_ednref1Mackey, Albert G. _The History of Freemasonry._ New York: The Masonic History Company, 1898, pp. 1104-1134.
> 
> Mackey, Albert G. _The History of Freemasonry in South Carolina,_ Columbia, SC: South Carolina Steam Power Press, 1861, p. 61.



Thanks my brother good stuff


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## Benjamin Baxter

I have never been challenged on street, but here recently when shaking brothers hands I am getting a grip.


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## BigBill

I wouldn't have an answer for that question.  Did you?

Bill P.  Ambler 19. Ambler, PA.


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## Benjamin Baxter

BigBill said:


> I wouldn't have an answer for that question.  Did you?
> 
> Bill P.  Ambler 19. Ambler, PA.



They are brothers that I know,  not strangers.  Sorry I may have misled.  I didnt mean to.


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## brother josh

Haven't been challenged on the streets got challenged over the phone yesterday tho lol


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## BroBook

brother josh said:


> Haven't been challenged on the streets got challenged over the phone yesterday tho lol
> 
> 
> My Freemasonry HD



Did you meet the challenge ?


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## brother josh

Indeed I believe I did it was a lil different due to my state is different from the brothers but I'm glad to have meet a new true and worthy 


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## BroBook

brother josh said:


> Indeed I believe I did it was a lil different due to my state is different from the brothers but I'm glad to have meet a new true and worthy
> 
> 
> My Freemasonry HD



Good and pleasant may GOD come and find us doing what we should be doing!!!

SMIB BroBook


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## youth1

brother I crave the answer to that ring question!

Pioneer Lodge #1


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## BroBook

youth1 said:


> Never heard that before! Take the screw out? Lol
> I gotta find out about that
> 
> Pioneer Lodge #1



Gave it some thought let there be light?


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## lmeeks357

Lol did u get the answer to that ring question youth1?

357


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## larrytrip357

youth1 said:


> brother I crave the answer to that ring question!
> 
> Pioneer Lodge #1



Brother me too!!!! Lol


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## youth1

No brother! Still seek the answer? 

Pioneer Lodge #1


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## larrytrip357

Yes!


Sunbeam #235


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## lmeeks357

Brobrook do u guy's have any association with the shriners in your state ?

357


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## KyPastMaster

I am not PHA but this is my thoughts as I have been approached in public . The only time I need to prove myself a Mason  is when I am visiting a lodge where I am unknown . I will not be tested/tried/challenged when "on the street" , the extent of my Masonic knowledge or even if I am Mason is of no concern to anyone outside of a lodge setting .


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## lmeeks357

That's commendable

357


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## John Schnitz

This guy needs to be banned!!!!!!and a lot of prayer.

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## tantbrandon

Trolling masons won't gain you anything my friend. 


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## Blake Bowden

tantbrandon said:


> Trolling masons won't gain you anything my friend.
> 
> 
> My Freemasonry HD



Well said and thank you for reporting the offensive post. You've been promoted to Premium Status. Enjoy!


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## BroBook

lmeeks357 said:


> Brobrook do u guy's have any association with the shriners in your state ?
> 
> 357



IDK I stayed Blue might go up after healing, but there is a big hadji shrine here in pensacola 


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## lmeeks357

Wat u mean by "healing " brother?  Never heard of that terminology

357


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## lmeeks357

Wat is healing?  Iv never heard of that terminology? Is it that u have received bad knowledge n just now getting the truth of things? 

357


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## BroBook

lmeeks357 said:


> Wat u mean by "healing " brother?  Never heard of that terminology
> 
> 357



Going from "unrecognized " to "recognized"
P.H to P.A. Or mainstream 


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## BroBook

lmeeks357 said:


> Wat is healing?  Iv never heard of that terminology? Is it that u have received bad knowledge n just now getting the truth of things?
> 
> 357



And no my brother I did not received bad knowledge just was not aware of the controversy when I came in from dark


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## bupton52

lmeeks357 said:


> Wat u mean by "healing " brother?  Never heard of that terminology
> 
> 357



I recall you saying that you used to be a PHA mason. Did your jurisdiction not have healing? To my knowledge, every PH jurisdiction offers it in some form.


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## lmeeks357

No brother I petitiond a pha lodge n in the two month waiting period sum stuff had went dwn n wind up going else where , but with in that time period I had a chance to see wat the fellas of that particular lodge had to offer n me I didn't see my Masonic career getting off to a good start there , it was a pissing contest n if I wanted to be in competition with anyone I would try out for the Olympics

357


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## lmeeks357

I did not get initiated as a pha member brother bupton52

357


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## bupton52

lmeeks357 said:


> I did not get initiated as a pha member brother bupton52
> 
> 357



Ok. Thanks for the clarification.


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## lmeeks357

No problem 

357


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## lmeeks357

Pha always been militant in there work?

357


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## bupton52

lmeeks357 said:


> Pha always been militant in there work?
> 
> 357



meaning?


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## lmeeks357

I can't explain it in tex form brother 

357


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## lmeeks357

I guess when u guys give the signs u do it slightly different from us 

357


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## bupton52

lmeeks357 said:


> I guess when u guys give the signs u do it slightly different from us
> 
> 357



Not sure. All I can safely say is that there are jurisdictional differences that exist even in PHA.


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## lmeeks357

Yea I thought so , iv seen differences and its quite intriguing 

357


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## Prince Saif Shallah

No lecture obligation token or password should be giving outside a lodge.



Prince Saif Shallah


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## laruewhite53

As this TOKEN ALLUDES. A grip is a token and it is given anywhere.


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## Warrior1256

brother josh said:


> In ky we call ph brothers sadly it has taken so long
> 
> 
> My Freemasonry HD


I agree!


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## ARizo1011

Prince Saif Shallah said:


> No lecture obligation token or password should be giving outside a lodge.
> 
> 
> 
> Prince Saif Shallah




That's makes completely no sense. When your token will be used outside lodges. Traveling masons will understand. You meet a mason outside lodge. You try him. How will he be tried. I guess only a Freemason would know


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## mrpierce17

ARizo1011 said:


> That's makes completely no sense. When your token will be used outside lodges. Traveling masons will understand. You meet a mason outside lodge. You try him. How will he be tried. I guess only a Freemason would know


I agree


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## goldsquare

bupton52 said:


> Most Worshipful Prince Hall Grand Lodge of Florida are not Prince Hall masons.
> 
> My Freemasonry HD


@bupton....the Most Worshipful Union Grand Lodge of Florida is Prince Hall, looked at the website and our MWM Anthony T. Stafford is the chairman for the Southern Region.


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## mrpierce17

goldsquare said:


> @bupton....the Most Worshipful Union Grand Lodge of Florida is Prince Hall, looked at the website and our MWM Anthony T. Stafford is the chairman for the Southern Region.




I believe bro bupton was referring to the Prince Hall Grand Lodge of FL out of Orlando who are a clandestine Organization they are not a part of the MWUGLofFL witch is regular P.H.A. Masonry 410 Broad st Jacksonville Florida


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## Levelhead

This makes no sense. So regular lodges in florida (for some stupid reason) don't recognize PH. 

And there are some PH lodges that dont recognize some other PH lodges? 

Bit confusing!


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## bupton52

Levelhead said:


> This makes no sense. So regular lodges in florida (for some stupid reason) don't recognize PH.
> 
> And there are some PH lodges that dont recognize some other PH lodges?
> 
> Bit confusing!



All PH GLs recognize each other. There is an entity called Prince Hall Origin (PHO), but they are clandestine.


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## Levelhead

Got cha! Ok makes sense!


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## Warrior1256

In Kentucky PH Masons and F&A Masons recognize each other but visitation is not allowed between the two. Not sure why.


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## BryanMaloney

Warrior1256 said:


> In Kentucky PH Masons and F&A Masons recognize each other but visitation is not allowed between the two. Not sure why.



Frequency of old white southern men in Kentucky, I'd say. Nasty thing to admit, but it's the most likely explanation. Are you aware that "F&A Masons" is actually meaningless. The Grand Lodge of Texas is AF&M, for example.


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## dfreybur

Levelhead said:


> And there are some PH lodges that dont recognize some other PH lodges? Bit confusing!



Clandestine jurisdictions often include the words "Prince Hall" in their names.  That's the confusing part.

If I made my own cars and called them "Ford St James Company" I'd get sued by "Ford Motor Company" over trademark infringement but "Prince Hall" is a person's name so it can't be trademarked.  Plus Ford has a lot more money to throw lawyers at me than all of the regular Prince Hall regular jurisdictions in the world.


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## Warrior1256

BryanMaloney said:


> Frequency of old white southern men in Kentucky, I'd say. Nasty thing to admit, but it's the most likely explanation. Are you aware that "F&A Masons" is actually meaningless. The Grand Lodge of Texas is AF&M, for example.


Thaks for the info brother.


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## tldubb

lmeeks357 said:


> Pha always been militant in there work?
> 
> 357


You really sound ignorant.


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## tldubb

@Imeeks357 What's your Grand Lodge?


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## tldubb

I've been on the sight not that long but you sound like a person who is still amongst the profane. Because some of the things that come out your mouth/post "brother" Imeeks357 are really amazing and could only be spoken from someone who is truly...pretending to be a brother.


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## mrpierce17

lmeeks357 said:


> Why would phs wait a whole year to raise there brothers? I think that's too long
> 
> Pha I ment
> 
> 357


Because Prince Hall Masonry raises Worthy and Well Qualified Master Masons not microwave brothers I have heard stories of our ancient brethren waiting seven years to be entered passed and raised that would make us all microwave brothers these rules and regulations can differ from jurisdiction to jurisdiction it's a Minimum of 120 days in Florida


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## dfreybur

"Microwave brothers".  Instant classic!  Crude humor that explains vividly through poetic imagery.

I chose to take multiple months between my degrees knowing most of it are in for life.  It was a lesson in patience for me.  I have a lot of problems learning patience so I deliberately stretch myself on the issue at times.

In my mother jurisdiction the degree ends with telling the new brother he will need to learn a proficiency before proceeding to his next degree.  For each degree I waited until there was another brother taking that degree and I presented my proficiencies those degree nights to show the new brother what the proficiency involved.  Then I asked for my next degree to be scheduled.

Inside I was inpatient and chomping at the bit the whole time.  When you manage to reign yourself in and "rush slowly", others think that's patience.


----------



## Warrior1256

dfreybur said:


> "Microwave brothers".  Instant classic!  Crude humor that explains vividly through poetic imagery.
> 
> I chose to take multiple months between my degrees knowing most of it are in for life.  It was a lesson in patience for me.  I have a lot of problems learning patience so I deliberately stretch myself on the issue at times.
> 
> In my mother jurisdiction the degree ends with telling the new brother he will need to learn a proficiency before proceeding to his next degree.  For each degree I waited until there was another brother taking that degree and I presented my proficiencies those degree nights to show the new brother what the proficiency involved.  Then I asked for my next degree to be scheduled.
> 
> Inside I was inpatient and chomping at the bit the whole time.  When you manage to reign yourself in and "rush slowly", others think that's patience.


Very good self discipline.


----------



## Dontrell Stroman

I should have been in on this discussion. Just had a conversation with a guy that stated the same thing. "You don't need to prove a guy is a mason on the streets."


----------



## Levelhead

Yes you DONT need to prove anything on "the streets"


Sent from Mossy Oak Swamp Bottom.


----------



## Glen Cook

Travelling Man91 said:


> I should have been in on this discussion. Just had a conversation with a guy that stated the same thing. "You don't need to prove a guy is a mason on the streets."


I agree there is no such need.  Even if he were seeking treatment/benefit as a brother, I would not rely  upon unofficial challenge questions, but would contact his Grand Lodge to verify his standing.


----------



## Dontrell Stroman

Glen Cook said:


> I agree there is no such need.  Even if he were seeking treatment/benefit as a brother, I would not rely  upon unofficial challenge questions, but would contact his Grand Lodge to verify his standing.



That is true, that's why I say verifying membership is important, maybe not for small talk, but any thing else yes.


----------



## BroBook

Levelhead said:


> This makes no sense. So regular lodges in florida (for some stupid reason) don't recognize PH.
> 
> And there are some PH lodges that dont recognize some other PH lodges?
> 
> Bit confusing!


For some stupid reason regular lodges in Florida don't recognize prince hall, what may I ask what is that stupid reason?


----------



## Levelhead

Well im from fl and say a few reasons.

Before i start any brother who has been raised in the same manner as me is a brother to me no matter or what ethnic group or color of their skin.

With that said. Here are a couple reasons.

-The "challenges on the street"
-Being stripped of your "light" if you cant prove yourself, or answer upmanning questions.
-BRANDING. Yes i said BRANDING!! I know 2 prince hall members that have brands. One of a S&C and the other from the barrel if a .38 revolver. All done in their lodge as part of "their lodges" ritual.
-difference in ritual. Esoteric and floor work.

The only way we can all try each other is to be somewhat on the same page "literally"

If both grand lodges came together and had one UNIVERSAL FLORIDA monitor, floor work and cetachism book then it would be much easier to be understood from both sides. 



Sent from Mossy Oak Swamp Bottom.


----------



## Glen Cook

Levelhead said:


> Well im from fl and say a few reasons.
> 
> Before i start any brother who has been raised in the same manner as me is a brother to me no matter or what ethnic group or color of their skin.
> 
> With that said. Here are a couple reasons.
> 
> -The "challenges on the street"
> -Being stripped of your "light" if you cant prove yourself, or answer upmanning questions.
> -BRANDING. Yes i said BRANDING!! I know 2 prince hall members that have brands. One of a S&C and the other from the barrel if a .38 revolver. All done in their lodge as part of "their lodges" ritual.
> -difference in ritual. Esoteric and floor work.
> 
> The only way we can all try each other is to be somewhat on the same page "literally"
> 
> If both grand lodges came together and had one UNIVERSAL FLORIDA monitor, floor work and cetachism book then it would be much easier to be understood from both sides.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from Mossy Oak Swamp Bottom.


I don't doubt what you say, but question whether these are members of the MW Union GL..of Florida...

Remember, the shooting in the Fellowcraft Club initiation was in a predominantly white State GL.  The Jester criminals were members of historically Caucasian GLs.  I attended an MM agree in the mountains of a southern GL.  I noticed that the SW column wasn't raised in the second section of the MM degree.  After watching the antics, I realized why. Extremes aren't limited to historically black GLs.  

I also note that in UGLE I can name eleven different rituals (some will indicate more).   My own province--the oldest Masonic province-- has differing rituals.  We have no issue determining who is a Mason.


----------



## Glen Cook

Travelling Man91 said:


> That is true, that's why I say verifying membership is important, maybe not for small talk, but any thing else yes.


And to belabor the necessity of this, I have seen fakes over the years.  There was one fellow who tried to get in saying I could vouch for him.....till it turned out I was there.  In a one day class, a Mason who had been refused advancement tried to sneak in to the degrees.


----------



## BroBook

I too am from Florida I was entered, passéd and raised, (1984) in a lodge working under the protection of the MWPHGL of Florida, which broke off from the MWUGL of Florida in about 1910, after finding this site ( thanks masons of Texas ) I came to a greater understanding of what it means to be regular, so I went through a process known as healing in Prince hall lingo. As for street challenges my instructor taught me to never challenge anyone, he also insisted that I learn the written work word for word, so I am willing to be tried often. I wear I C&S around my neck almost always visible and from time to people will mention it, some say Prince Hall, I say yes. Some what's that, I say lil something I found in a grave looking for the owner can't find him, what you know about this. That ends it no harm no foul. Branding I have heard of but never seen we call that hazing and it's a masonic offense that will  get you expelled. Ritual differences really, I prepared first in my ...,..and then in a ......next...., since coming to this forum I discovered that we ( brothers) are different and alike. I will stop now, rules of order.


----------



## Glen Cook

Br. Book, I think it takes courage to give up an alliance of decades.  Many would just continue on the path of error.  A fine example.


----------



## Brother JC

The local pipe band had a drum teacher (non-Mason) who was pushing everyone to extremes, trying to make a national competition level crew out of some hobbyists. One of the long-time pipers finally blew up and went off on him. The teacher stormed out belittling Masonry in general and saying how he expected more from such men...
The fact is we are all human, with human frailties. We are not, nor shall we ever be, perfect. People (including ourselves) seem to forget that at times.
Glen, the Asst. Sec. of my English lodge listed nearly fifty variations once, and those just in UGLE. Of course, most have been dormant for decades, but still.


----------



## Glen Cook

trysquare said:


> Glen, the Asst. Sec. of my English lodge listed nearly fifty variations once, and those just in UGLE. Of course, most have been dormant for decades, but still.



Right.  I was thinking of actively worked.  We just lost a Time Immemorial lodge in Cheshire that had its own ritual.  Sad.


----------



## Dontrell Stroman

Bro. Level head, I've seen two masons from the GL of TN with the S&C tattooed. And I've always also seen Prince Hall do it. I will always believe it's each individual man that makes that decision. Because truth is, I was told not to get any Masonic tattoo, so it couldn't be Prince Hall as a whole. I will tell you something I dont agree with that some Prince hall brothers do, they will start a lodge on a college campus and treat it like a Greek fraternity. Have paddles, "stepping on the ground" hazing etc. ALL OF THAT IS UNMASONIC IF YOU ASK ME!


----------



## Brother JC

Tattoos are a whole other conversation (search the forum for threads). No prohibitions against them, but certainly an "each to there own" situation.


----------



## Dontrell Stroman

Yes that's why I said I believe its each individual that makes that decision. But me personally I wouldn't won't one, but I'm not going to disown a brother that has one. I've seen more Prince Hall brothers with Shriner tattoos than Masonic tattoos.


----------



## Glen Cook

Brother JC said:


> Tattoos are a whole other conversation (search the forum for threads). No prohibitions against them, but certainly an "each to there own" situation.


Indeed, there are a number of Masonic tattoo sub lists. A member of my lodge has a tattoo shop.  While I do not personally engage in skin art for religious reasons, there is a substantial segment of the fraternity which does.  Besides, I can barely decide what tie to wear every day, let alone commit to a something that lasts a life time


----------



## mrpierce17

Levelhead said:


> Well im from fl and say a few reasons.
> 
> Before i start any brother who has been raised in the same manner as me is a brother to me no matter or what ethnic group or color of their skin.
> 
> With that said. Here are a couple reasons.
> 
> -The "challenges on the street"
> -Being stripped of your "light" if you cant prove yourself, or answer upmanning questions.
> -BRANDING. Yes i said BRANDING!! I know 2 prince hall members that have brands. One of a S&C and the other from the barrel if a .38 revolver. All done in their lodge as part of "their lodges" ritual.
> -difference in ritual. Esoteric and floor work.
> 
> The only way we can all try each other is to be somewhat on the same page "literally"
> 
> If both grand lodges came together and had one UNIVERSAL FLORIDA monitor, floor work and cetachism book then it would be much easier to be understood from both sides.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from Mossy Oak Swamp Bottom.


I happen to hail from The Most Worshipful Union Grand Lodge of Florida and I can assure you there is absolutely no hazing aloud, in fact new candidates sing a No hazing agreement form get yourself caught  up hazing someone  and you can kiss your Masonic status goodbye  are you sure these men where from MWUGLofFL PHA and not from The Most Worshipful Prince Hall GL of FL AF&AM  who broke away from the regular PH family or some other group of imposters ??? I personally think 2 things are holding up the process of unity in Florida and  other southern states # 1 prejudice & 
# 2 Pride and it seems to be more so among the older Generation


----------



## GKA

I saw a brother with a collection of masonic tattoos, he also had the jacket, ball cap and necklace to match, looked ridiculous to me but who am I to judge another mans passion?


----------



## Dontrell Stroman

mrpierce17 said:


> I happen to hail from The Most Worshipful Union Grand Lodge of Florida and I can assure you there is absolutely no hazing aloud, in fact new candidates sing a No hazing agreement form get yourself caught  up hazing someone  and you can kiss your Masonic status goodbye  are you sure these men where from MWUGLofFL PHA and not from The Most Worshipful Prince Hall GL of FL AF&AM  who broke away from the regular PH family or some other group of imposters ??? I personally think 2 things are holding up the process of unity in Florida and  other southern states # 1 prejudice &
> # 2 Pride and it seems to be more so among the older Generation



Which one of these Grand Lodges are actually Prince Hall. I don't believe Prince Hall has any AF&AM lodges.


----------



## Dontrell Stroman

Why is the MWUGL of FL not called MWPHGL of FL , like everyone other state ?


----------



## Levelhead

No idea. Honestly. I just call them prince hall.


Sent from Mossy Oak Swamp Bottom.


----------



## Dontrell Stroman

Lol, well both of them can't be Prince Hall.


----------



## Glen Cook

The issue is not being Prince Hall, but Prince Hall _Affiliated_. For the history, see http://www.mwuglflorida.org/mwuglhistory.htm


----------



## mrpierce17

*




*
In 1865, Brother Charles F. Dailey accepted the Deputy Grand Mastership for the Southern Jurisdiction, under Hiram Grand Lodge of Pennsylvania. Brother Charles F. Dailey, was born in St. Thomas, West Indies in 1820. In 1840, he was in the fruit trade between Florida and Europe. He was the leading black Mason in the South. Brother Dailey received his first three degrees in a lodge in Liverpool, England and the Scottish Rite in Glasgow, Scotland and was knighted at Greenock, Scotland. It is believed that Brother Dailey was unaware of the irregularities of Hiram Grand Lodge of Pennsylvania and the National Compact Lodge at the time of his appointment. Brother Dailey was a man of unusual ability to be able to organize black men in the south during the time period of high racial tension.

*  In 1867, the first three lodges were established by Brother Dailey in the state of Florida: Solomon Lodge # 50, Saint Johns Lodge # 51, and Mt. Moriah Lodge # 52. The lodges were chartered by Hiram Grand Lodge of Pennsylvania*. (Note: Hiram Grand Lodge was a spurious offspring of the Most Worshipful Prince Hall Grand Lodge of Pennsylvania. The two Grand Lodges later reconciled after the dissolution of the National Compact). On June 17, 1870 in the city of Jacksonville, Florida, a general assembly of the Craft was called to meet, presided over by the RW Charles F. Dailey, Deputy Grand Master for the Southern Jurisdiction, under Hiram Grand Lodge of Pennsylvania, with RW Charles H. Pierce as Grand Secretary. The convention lasted two days. A code of laws for the jurisdiction was adopted and the lodges were consolidated, renumbered, and charted by the Most Worshipful Union Grand Lodge of Florida. The following Grand Officers were elected for the ensuing year: *Harry H. Thompson, Grand Master; John H. Robinson, Deputy Grand Master; Robert Smith, Grand Senior Warden; James Roberts, Grand Junior Warden; Emanuel Fortune, Grand Treasure; F.H. Dunkins, Grand Secretary; Rev. Charles H. Pierce, Grand Chaplin.* This is the creation of The Most Worshipful Union Grand Lodge of Florida. In 1877, in Wilmington, Delaware, the dissolution of the National Compact Grand Lodge occurred. A resolution was unanimously adopted: *Resolved that each State is its Sovereign head… etc.* With this action being taken, the State of Florida was on its own to decide if it would go its own way or be affiliated with other Prince Hall Bodies. The State chose to be among the legal and legitimate Prince Hall Bodies and became Prince Hall Affiliated.


----------



## mrpierce17

In 1870 there was already a group operating using the name Most Worshipful Prince Hall Grand Lodge of Florida


----------



## Dontrell Stroman

Okay, so is the MWUGL of FL Prince Hall Affiliated ?


----------



## Dontrell Stroman

Never mind, I check checked out the article bro. Cook posted.


----------



## Dontrell Stroman

The reason I asked which one was Prince Hall Affiliated is because In the movie "Rosewood" that takes place in Rosewood Florida, there is a Prince Hall lodge in there that is AF&AM. I've never know Prince Hall affiliated to be AF&AM


----------



## AndreAshlar

All regular PHA GLs don't have the term "Prince Hall" in their name.


----------



## Dontrell Stroman

If you don't mind, will you name a few that doesn't ?


----------



## mrpierce17

The Most Worshipful Union Grand Lodge of Florida  ,  The Most Worshipful Stringer Grand Lodge ( Mississippi) , & The Grand Lodge of Masons AF&AM Liberia are all regular Prince Hall Affiliated Grand Lodges


----------



## Keith D. McKeever Jr.

That sounds about right! The Most Worshipful Stringer Grand Lodge had me confuddle when I was in Mississippi.


----------



## AndreAshlar

A brother whom I'd never met recently asked me about a little dog with a collar around his neck.  It almost went over my head...


----------



## mrpierce17

AndreAshlar said:


> A brother whom I'd never met recently asked me about a little dog with a collar around his neck.  It almost went over my head...


Did it make you feel as if he was trying to challenge your Masonic affiliation or just a friendly brother trying to see if you where on your toes always willing to be t____ ???? ( The little dog that's old school)


----------



## acjohnson53

Catchcism, I got one she is chawienie....


----------



## AndreAshlar

mrpierce17 said:


> Did it make you feel as if he was trying to challenge your Masonic affiliation or just a friendly brother trying to see if you where on your toes always willing to be t____ ???? ( The little dog that's old school)


It was all good.  He just wanted to make sure that I was on my toes.


----------



## Sammcd

I was passing through Denver last  year and stopped for a Burger. I was challenged by a man who ask me if I Was a traveling man. I responded that I was indeed, traveling from the west to east. He ask how old my dog was. I told him my dog's age had nothing to do with wether or not I was Mason and ask him what lodge he was from and if he had a current dues card. He then said that he should remove my ring. I responded that this was not going happen. My Order arrived and I left. I Felt bad about this encounter during the rest of the trip.


----------



## AndreAshlar

Sammcd said:


> I was passing through Denver last  year and stopped for a Burger. I was challenged by a man who ask me if I Was a traveling man. I responded that I was indeed, traveling from the west to east. He ask how old my dog was. I told him my dog's age had nothing to do with wether or not I was Mason and ask him what lodge he was from and if he had a current dues card. He then said that he should remove my ring. I responded that this was not going happen. My Order arrived and I left. I Felt bad about this encounter during the rest of the trip.


You handled it perfectly


----------



## Dontrell Stroman

Sammcd said:


> I was passing through Denver last  year and stopped for a Burger. I was challenged by a man who ask me if I Was a traveling man. I responded that I was indeed, traveling from the west to east. He ask how old my dog was. I told him my dog's age had nothing to do with wether or not I was Mason and ask him what lodge he was from and if he had a current dues card. He then said that he should remove my ring. I responded that this was not going happen. My Order arrived and I left. I Felt bad about this encounter during the rest of the trip.


Again, what is all the talk about taking a brothers ring, emblems, lapel pins etc ? Is this custom practiced throughout all Prince Hall jurisdictions ?


----------



## Dontrell Stroman

What is the challenge for ? It's almost as if brothers are in competition to see who is more knowledgeable in Freemasonry.  I often wonder if some of the division within both GL are due to customs that one refuses to adopt. Being a military man myself, I've been able to meet quite a few brothers. I have have seen members from both GL ask each other's questions from the degrees; just as a way of starting a conversation, but I can say, from all the GL brothers I have spoke with(Not PH), most of them have never heard of a challenge nor taking another brothers property. I think it's a custom only within PH masonry


----------



## AndreAshlar

I've never witnessed a "challenge" being anything more than playful and witty masonic intellectualism.  As long as it's relegated to that, I have no issue with it.  I enjoy them...


----------



## mrpierce17

Travelling Man91 said:


> What is the challenge for ? It's almost as if brothers are in competition to see who is more knowledgeable in Freemasonry.  I often wonder if some of the division within both GL are due to customs that one refuses to adopt. Being a military man myself, I've been able to met quite a bit of brothers. I have have seen members from both GL ask each other's questions from the degrees just as a way of starting a conversation, but I can say, from all the GL brothers I have spoke with, most of them have never heard of a challenge nor taking another brothers property. I think it's a custom only within PH masonry


I think it's customary in clandestine masonry more so with older clandestine made masons who where possibly hazed when they went through, I wear a S&C on my hat , ring , or necklace almost all the time and my job requires me to visit from home to home sometimes  my customers are Mason's those who are usually will say are you a mason or ask a question only a mason could answer the conversations always go pleasantly , only had one older gentleman who once he found out I was a Prince Hall mason tell me " the problem with  PH Mason's is that they don't have a legitimate charter "  I laughed and cut the conversation short at that point and advised him to visit The phylaxis society.org if he wanted to research the legitimacy or origin of Prince Hall masonry


----------



## Dontrell Stroman

mrpierce17 said:


> I think it's customary in clandestine masonry more so with older clandestine made masons who where possibly hazed when they went through, I wear a S&C on my hat , ring , or necklace almost all the time and my job requires me to visit from home to home sometimes  my customers are Mason's those who are usually will say are you a mason or ask a question only a mason could answer the conversations always go pleasantly , only had one older gentleman who once he found out I was a Prince Hall mason tell me " the problem with  PH Mason's is that they don't have a legitimate charter "  I laughed and cut the conversation short at that point and advised him to visit The phylaxis society.org if he wanted to research the legitimacy or origin of Prince Hall masonry


I would agree with you, but I have spoke with Grand Officers in PH and they stated that if you were an emblem you must protect your "Light". I enjoy simple phases also, but I dont get going into all three degrees outside of a lodge in public.


----------



## Dontrell Stroman

Truthfully I believe this "street knowledge masonry" came when brothers didn't know how to read as good, so they took phrases out of all three degrees and made a unofficial street test.


----------



## AndreAshlar

Travelling Man91 said:


> Truthfully I believe this "street knowledge masonry" came when brothers didn't know how to read as good, so they took phrases out of all three degrees and made a unofficial street test.


I disagree.  You base this theory on what?


----------



## AndreAshlar

Travelling Man91 said:


> I enjoy simple phases also, but I dont get going into all three degrees outside of a lodge in public.


What do you mean my "going into all three degrees in public"?


----------



## AndreAshlar

Travelling Man91 said:


> they took phrases out of all three degrees


False.  You've experienced this?


----------



## mrpierce17

Travelling Man91 said:


> I would agree with you, but I have spoke with Grand Officers in PH and they stated that if you were an emblem you must protect your "Light". I enjoy simple phases also, but I dont get going into all three degrees outside of a lodge in public.


I have only "heard" stories of this as a sort of game between brothers who knew each other to be such having a battle of wits on the subject of masonry usually during hours or refreshments when one could not answer the next brothers question he would surrender a pice of Masonic property that property would be given to the owners WM and returned by the owners WM with a brief  explanation/lesson on the areas of Masonic discussion in question.... That being said it is no longer practiced in these day in time at least in Florida jurisdiction where it is considered a form of hazing and such actions can lead up to Masonic charges/suspension or possibly expulsion of ones membership


----------



## AndreAshlar

mrpierce17 said:


> I have only "heard" stories of this as a sort of game between brothers who knew each other to be such having a battle of wits on the subject of masonry usually during hours or refreshments when one could not answer the next brothers question he would surrender a pice of Masonic property that property would be given to the owners WM and returned by the owners WM with a brief  explanation/lesson on the areas of Masonic discussion in question.... That being said it is no longer practiced in these day in time at least in Florida jurisdiction where it is considered a form of hazing and such actions can lead up to Masonic charges/suspension or possibly expulsion of ones membership


I've never heard of this occurring in a tiled lodge


----------



## Dontrell Stroman

AndreAshlar said:


> False.  You've experienced this?


Okay, let's break this down 1st. You do what a challenge is right ?


----------



## Dontrell Stroman

AndreAshlar said:


> What do you mean my "going into all three degrees in public"?


Have you ever been challenged ?


----------



## AndreAshlar

Travelling Man91 said:


> Okay, let's break this down 1st. You do what a challenge is right ?


Absolutely


----------



## AndreAshlar

Say it again


----------



## mrpierce17

AndreAshlar said:


> I've never heard of this occurring in a tiled lodge


Not during a tiled lodge but during chit chat after meeting and I have only "heard" stories of this game never witnessed or participated in & probably way before my time becoming a mason


----------



## acjohnson53

Brother's this is not the time nor place to have this discussion, Y'all getting deep, come on Masters


----------



## mrpierce17

acjohnson53 said:


> Brother's this is not the time nor place to have this discussion, Y'all getting deep, come on Masters


Agreed this is not the place for discourse rather the place for enlightenment


----------



## mrpierce17

acjohnson53 said:


> Catchcism, I got one she is chawienie....


Speaking on enlightenment can you expound  on this by way of PM ...never heard that one I must add it to my arsenal


----------



## Dontrell Stroman

I'll never break my obligation. I was just going to let the brother know that the questions are from the three degrees. Although I still don't know why we challenge each other. I get having fun and asking questions only masons know, but when you get into taking a brothers belongings then I have a problem with it


----------



## Dontrell Stroman

mrpierce17 said:


> I have only "heard" stories of this as a sort of game between brothers who knew each other to be such having a battle of wits on the subject of masonry usually during hours or refreshments when one could not answer the next brothers question he would surrender a pice of Masonic property that property would be given to the owners WM and returned by the owners WM with a brief  explanation/lesson on the areas of Masonic discussion in question.... That being said it is no longer practiced in these day in time at least in Florida jurisdiction where it is considered a form of hazing and such actions can lead up to Masonic charges/suspension or possibly expulsion of ones membership


See that right there shows you something ain't right with some brothers. If a brother mason ask me a question and I don't know the answer, he should enlighten me. What good is it to take my belongings and have the WM "skool" me on something that the brother questioning me should have done.


----------



## Dontrell Stroman

Travelling Man91 said:


> See that right there shows you something ain't right with some brothers. If a brother mason asks me a question and I don't know the answer, he should enlighten me. What good is it to take my belongings give it to the WM and have him "skool" me on something in order to get my stuff back. That should be the duty of ever mason, not just the WM. It would make me wonder if the brother questioning me knew the answer.


----------



## mrpierce17

Travelling Man91 said:


> See that right there shows you something ain't right with some brothers. If a brother mason ask me a question and I don't know the answer, he should enlighten me. What good is it to take my belongings and have the WM "skool" me on something that the brother questioning me should have done.


I totally agree and as I have said such things are forbidden within my jurisdiction there is a time and a place for such quizzes like during GL jewel contest and such to be carried out accordingly if one desires to test wits with his fellow brethren


----------



## Dontrell Stroman

mrpierce17 said:


> I totally agree and as I have said such things are forbidden within my jurisdiction there is a time and a place for such quizzes like during GL jewel contest and such to be carried out accordingly if one desires to test wits with his fellow brethren


I could do something like that. That would be something fun to do with a large group of brothers, but on the street.... No. Too man cowans out here. That's why in TN a brother will always show his dues card first then talk. If you don't have one then..... It stays "off"


----------



## Dontrell Stroman

Mrpiece 17 you be careful in Florida, there are a lot of clandestine masons there. Especially the IFAAM. Of course in PH we are clueless because they have the key that's unlocks everything ha ha


----------



## mrpierce17

Travelling Man91 said:


> Mrpiece 17 you be careful in Florida, there are a lot of clandestine masons there. Especially the IFAAM. Of course in PH we are clueless because they have the key that's unlocks everything ha ha


Lol I once met a IF&AAM when I asked him what GL he was operating under he told me they are headquartered out of Chicago needles to say I was off at that point I hate the fact that people are out there being misled in clandestine organizations because he was a stand up guy


----------



## Dontrell Stroman

mrpierce17 said:


> Lol I once met a IF&AAM when I asked him what GL he was operating under he told me they are headquartered out of Chicago needles to say I was off at that point I hate the fact that people are out there being misled in clandestine organizations because he was a stand up guy


I agree brother, but you know what. One of my first memories of freemasonry was of an IFAAM. He was my JROTC teacher. I remember asking him what was on his ring. He finally one day said  "look, I'm an international mason son". I said what's that. He said "I can travel anywhere in the world and be taken as a brother." I thought that was so cool.


----------



## Bloke

I had to look IFAAM up and found this relavant to the thread http://www.midnightfreemasons.org/2015/04/the-amway-of-freemasonry-clandestine.html


----------



## Dontrell Stroman

Very good article.


----------



## AndreAshlar

Travelling Man91 said:


> Very good article.


Indeed


----------



## Dontrell Stroman

AndreAshlar said:


> Indeed


Bro Andre what GL do you hail from ?


----------



## AndreAshlar

Travelling Man91 said:


> Bro Andre what GL do you hail from ?


MWPHGLMD


----------



## Dontrell Stroman

AndreAshlar said:


> MWPHGLMD


Good to meet you, I'm hailing from MWPHGL of TN


----------



## AndreAshlar

Travelling Man91 said:


> Good to meet you, I'm hailing from MWPHGL of TN


The pleasure is mine Square.  Greetings!


----------



## Warrior1256

Sammcd said:


> I was passing through Denver last  year and stopped for a Burger. I was challenged by a man who ask me if I Was a traveling man. I responded that I was indeed, traveling from the west to east. He ask how old my dog was. I told him my dog's age had nothing to do with wether or not I was Mason and ask him what lodge he was from and if he had a current dues card. He then said that he should remove my ring. I responded that this was not going happen. My Order arrived and I left. I Felt bad about this encounter during the rest of the trip.


In my opinion you handled this situation very well. It really galls me that someone would think that they have to right to take someone's personal property because someone would refuse to answer their questions or didn't answer them to their satisfaction.


----------



## Dontrell Stroman

Warrior1256 said:


> In my opinion you handled this situation very well. It really galls me that someone would think that they have to right to take someone's personal property because someone would refuse to answer their questions or didn't answer them to their satisfaction.


That has always been my argument. I'm not giving my ring or anything else I bought. The only person that will ever get my Masonic regalia will be my son when I die or if he chooses to become a mason when he becomes of age.


----------



## Dontrell Stroman

I believe we need to specify, please don't think a brother asking you if you are a ....... Or about the little dog is a challenge. The majority of brothers that ask these questions are just having fun or being cordial.  You can tell by the way a brother approaches you if he's trying to challenge you or not. I refuse to take any challenges from anyone outside of a tiled lodge.  Me and my brothers cut up sometimes in the lodge, but its nothing serious. These questions also serve a purpose when in the presence of non masons. For instance, how many guys have you met that wear a ring that was given to them, or they "claim" they are a freemason. I've met some. If you were to ask a guy that "claims" he is a mason because he is wearing a ring, if he is a mason; he would probably say yes.  It would be kinda hard to answer these questions unless you are a mason. Because even if you have read online and memorized something, there's things you can only learn within lodge.


----------



## Derinique Kendrick

Travelling Man91 said:


> Mrpiece 17 you be careful in Florida, there are a lot of clandestine masons there. Especially the IFAAM. Of course in PH we are clueless because they have the key that's unlocks everything ha ha


I just laughed so hard at this.
Greetings brother from the MWPHGL of Ga


----------



## Warrior1256

Travelling Man91 said:


> That has always been my argument. I'm not giving my ring or anything else I bought.


Agreed! If they get my personal property they'll have to take it!


Travelling Man91 said:


> I believe we need to specify, please don't think a brother asking you if you are a ....... Or about the little dog is a challenge. The majority of brothers that ask these questions are just having fun or being cordial.


I understand this and totally agree.


----------



## Warrior1256

Travelling Man91 said:


> Because even if you have read online and memorized something, there's things you can only learn within lodge.


Yeah, I've looked at many of these sites that lay out rituals and claim that they are authentic and they all have one thing in common....all of them have some parts right and some parts wrong.


----------



## Dontrell Stroman

I have a serious question for brothers that are a little more informative on the "challenge" what happens if a brother can't answer a question and he refuses to take his emblems off ?


----------



## Dontrell Stroman

Derinique Kendrick said:


> I just laughed so hard at this.
> Greetings brother from the MWPHGL of Ga


Greetings brother


----------



## acjohnson53

mrpierce17 said:


> Speaking on enlightenment can you expound  on this by way of PM ...never heard that one I must add it to my arsenal



U were a Fellow Craft, due guard


----------



## acjohnson53

Travelling Man91 said:


> I have a serious question for brothers that are a little more informative on the "challenge" what happens if a brother can't answer a question and he refuses to take his emblems off ?



I was in the same boat u were in, I called those kind of brothers that don't have nuttin else better to do... I just look at them....But at the end of the day u took that obligation, and that don't make them any better than u...I have a hard time remembering stuff, but when the gavel is dropped it's show time....U hear it so much to where u basically memorize the opening and closing of the Lodge, Degree work becomes almost second nature to u. So don't trip...I had a Brother like that and he was wearing his light upside down because he didn't want to be challenged. I had to enlighten him...


----------



## dfreybur

Travelling Man91 said:


> I agree brother, but you know what. One of my first memories of freemasonry was of an IFAAM. He was my JROTC teacher. I remember asking him what was on his ring. He finally one day said  "look, I'm an international mason son". I said what's that. He said "I can travel anywhere in the world and be taken as a brother." I thought that was so cool.



The sad part is he can't be taken as a brother everywhere in the world if he actually tries it.  Yet those of us in regular and recognized jurisdictions can.  He probably still does not know that to this day.

I encountered some International lower-case-b brothers or step brothers near Chicago.  They said their jurisdiction was out of Ohio.  Interesting how the stories different member to member or location to location.


----------



## Warrior1256

dfreybur said:


> Interesting how the stories different member to member or location to location.


It is, isn't it?


----------



## Keith D. McKeever Jr.

Travelling Man91 said:


> I have a serious question for brothers that are a little more informative on the "challenge" what happens if a brother can't answer a question and he refuses to take his emblems off ?


Nothing should happen! If another brother forces himself on another to take their property; that theft! I don't think the GAOTU would like that!


----------



## Warrior1256

Keith D. McKeever Jr. said:


> Nothing should happen! If another brother forces himself on another to take their property; that theft! I don't think the GAOTU would like that!


I don't think that the offending party would like my fists, feet, elbows and knees either.


----------



## Dontrell Stroman

Warrior1256 said:


> I don't think that the offending party would like my fists, feet, elbows and knees either.


I laughed so hard at this. I would be doing the same thing and probably try to bring Masonic charges up on him.


----------



## Glen Cook

Deleted


----------



## Derinique Kendrick

Travelling Man91 said:


> I have a serious question for brothers that are a little more informative on the "challenge" what happens if a brother can't answer a question and he refuses to take his emblems off ?


Realistically, what really CAN happen?


----------



## Dontrell Stroman

dfreybur said:


> The sad part is he can't be taken as a brother everywhere in the world if he actually tries it.  Yet those of us in regular and recognized jurisdictions can.  He probably still does not know that to this day.
> 
> I encountered some International lower-case-b brothers or step brothers near Chicago.  They said their jurisdiction was out of Ohio.  Interesting how the stories different member to member or location to location.


Your absolutely right. I bet that is one of the cons to their recruitment techniques. Speaking on Chicago, thats were he was made a mason. Truthfully I don't believe anyone is an "International mason" only for the sole purpose of not every Masonic affiliation is recognized by their counterparts.


----------



## mrpierce17

Derinique Kendrick said:


> Realistically, what really CAN happen?


Absolutely nothing you walk away ....


----------



## Derinique Kendrick

mrpierce17 said:


> Absolutely nothing you walk away ....


Exactly where I was going with it. There's no way a true brother would go out of his way, breaking the law by the way, just to make you remove an emblem because you refused to answer a question or you got it wrong in his eyes. I really doubt any true brother would risk masonic charges, let alone criminal charges over a piece of clothing or an emblem on a car, and if people really feel they have to take it to that level, they should really evaluate why they are even a "brother" in the first place.


----------



## Dontrell Stroman

Furthermore, the key words are  "true brothers". I know y'all have heard the older generation say "long time ago if a man was caught wearing Masonic emblems and he's not a mason, something bad could happen." Heckler I was told this before I was raised. I remember clear as day a brother saying don't wear anything Masonic affiliated, because the wrong brother seeing it may try you and if you can't prove yourself then you could get himed up.whatever that meant.


----------



## Dontrell Stroman

When I use to be apart of the Elks before I became a mason. I remember many freemasons would attend parties there. One night while I was there, I remember members of the Omega Psi Phi fraternity were there partying. Well, one of the masons was doing a lot of barking "one of their fraternities chants". I remember seeing a Omega guy fly across the room and start questioning this brother. This brother had been drinking and was just barking trying to impress the ladies. Well the Omegas didn't like it. They asked the brother multiple times to stop barking and he refused. They waited to he went to the restroom and roughed him up a little. The only thing that stoped him from getting hurt real bad was some of his Masonic brothers came to his aid and broke it up. See to me this is how gangs operate. I will not condom nor be apart of such behavior. Senseless. Every time I hear masons talking about taking a brothers belongings it reminds me of  street gangs and Greek fraternities.


----------



## AndreAshlar

It boils down to a simple question :  are we a gang or a collective of upright men seeking to better ourselves and our communities using sacred law as our guide?  It's the latter.  Everything about us should speak to that reality.


----------



## Dontrell Stroman

AndreAshlar said:


> It boils down to a simple question :  are we a gang or a collective of upright men seeking to better ourselves and our communities using sacred law as our guide?  It's the latter.  Everything about us should speak to that reality.


Your right brother


----------



## Warrior1256

Derinique Kendrick said:


> and if people really feel they have to take it to that level, they should really evaluate why they are even a "brother" in the first place.


Very true.


----------



## mrpierce17

No question about it to take another's belongings is a crime plan and simple


----------



## Warrior1256

mrpierce17 said:


> No question about it to take another's belongings is a crime plan and simple


Exactly! That's why I can't understand why a person would think that they have to right to do this. It's completely ridiculous!


----------



## acjohnson53

I wouldn't put myself in a position to call myself a gang member, gang bangers caryy knives and guns and attempt to do bobily harm, Me as a Master Mason Spread Knowledge and Wisdom with the Attempt to spread Brotherly Love. Or as we say, Faith, Hope and Charity....Now in the open Lodge if a young Master Mason ask me a question I would try to answer his question as best I can...


----------



## Dontrell Stroman

acjohnson53 said:


> I wouldn't put myself in a position to call myself a gang member, gang bangers caryy knives and guns and attempt to do bobily harm, Me as a Master Mason Spread Knowledge and Wisdom with the Attempt to spread Brotherly Love. Or as we say, Faith, Hope and Charity....Now in the open Lodge if a young Master Mason ask me a question I would try to answer his question as best I can...


That's what your suppose to do. Educate and spread brotherly love. Not defraud brothers.


----------



## acjohnson53

Good morning Sir. I up catching up on what I missed the last coupla days...


----------



## Dontrell Stroman

acjohnson53 said:


> Good morning Sir. I up catching up on what I missed the last coupla days...


Good morning brethren. No problem. I check this app throughout the day daily lol


----------



## Warrior1256

Travelling Man91 said:


> That's what your suppose to do. Educate and spread brotherly love. Not defraud brothers.


Exactly!


----------



## acjohnson53

As I read in this forum it is intriguing how we forget that when we first became Master Masons we studied like the dickens to be proficient in our degrees to go the next level, and when we enter the Lodge we hear the same stuff all the time, so it becomes embedded in our mines on what's next, So I don't worry about it...I just go with flow...


----------



## acjohnson53

3 Letter, 4 Letter, we are all Masters in this Universe, At the end of the day we all answer to the higher Being /G\


----------



## Dontrell Stroman

acjohnson53 said:


> 3 Letter, 4 Letter, we are all Masters in this Universe, At the end of the day we all answer to the higher Being /G\


What GL do you hail from brother ?


----------



## Glen Cook

acjohnson53 said:


> 3 Letter, 4 Letter, we are all Masters in this Universe, At the end of the day we all answer to the higher Being /G\


I'm a member of both, and one of my GLs was four letter (outside of PHA, the number of letters doesn't matter).


----------



## MRichard

Glen Cook said:


> I'm a member of both, and one of my GLs was four letter (outside of PHA, the number of letters doesn't matter).



Most clandestine lodges are four letter. They like to use it as a pretense to show that they are somehow legitimate. More of an issue in the Black community. (And no that is not racial).


----------



## Bloke

We're 4 letter and regular. Dont rely on this observation....


----------



## Glen Cook

MRichard said:


> Most clandestine lodges are four letter. They like to use it as a pretense to show that they are somehow legitimate. More of an issue in the Black community. (And no that is not racial).


As I said, in the black community, Not in SGLs.  See my sig line.  We've got our own troubles, thanks


----------



## MRichard

Glen Cook said:


> As I said, in the black community, Not in SGLs.  See my sig line.  We've got our own troubles, thanks



I was simply clarifying. I missed the part where you said in the Black community. You mentioned PHA. The point was that the bogus lodges use 4 letters often.


----------



## Glen Cook

MRichard said:


> I was simply clarifying. I missed the part where you said in the Black community. You mentioned PHA. The point was that the bogus lodges use 4 letters often.


No.  That is primarily in the black freemasonry, not clandestine lodges per se


----------



## MRichard

Glen Cook said:


> No.  That is primarily in the black freemasonry, not clandestine lodges per se



edited after further consideration


----------



## Glen Cook

MRichard said:


> edited after further consideration


There are significant points in my life where I would like to have that option


----------



## MRichard

Glen Cook said:


> There are significant points in my life where I would like to have that option



Every once and awhile, you got to throw up the white flag and move on and lick your chops. Not always a pleasant feeling though. Lol


----------



## Warrior1256

MRichard said:


> Every once and awhile, you got to throw up the white flag and move on and lick your chops. Not always a pleasant feeling though. Lol


Lol....been there, done that!


----------



## AndreAshlar

Bloke said:


> We're 4 letter and regular. Dont rely on this observation....


Though not reliable in "mainstream masonry, it's reliable within PHA masonry.


----------



## Dontrell Stroman

AndreAshlar said:


> Though not reliable in "mainstream masonry, it's reliable within PHA masonry.


Lol. It's so funny because I've noticed when I meet a mason that is apart of an irregular lodge. The conversation goes, hey brother, what Lodge are you apart of ' ' oh okay. So your PH. I say yes and I ask what Lodge are they in and it's some off the wall name and the GL sounds like something made up two days ago. Then conversation almost always end with were not PH but we are just like them.


----------



## mrpierce17

AndreAshlar said:


> Though not reliable in "mainstream masonry, it's reliable within PHA masonry.


There is 1 the GL of Liberia AF&AM
http://www.grandlodgeofliberia.org/pages1.php?pgID=36


----------



## Warrior1256

Travelling Man91 said:


> The conversation goes, hey brother, what Lodge are you apart of ' ' oh okay. So your PH. I say yes and I ask what Lodge are they in and it's some off the wall name and the GL sounds like something made up two days ago. Then conversation almost always end with were not PH but we are just like them.


Lol, I like that. They are not PH but are "just like them".


----------



## AndreAshlar

Travelling Man91 said:


> Lol. It's so funny because I've noticed when I meet a mason that is apart of an irregular lodge. The conversation goes, hey brother, what Lodge are you apart of ' ' oh okay. So your PH. I say yes and I ask what Lodge are they in and it's some off the wall name and the GL sounds like something made up two days ago. Then conversation almost always end with were not PH but we are just like them.


That's why you gotta be careful.  Even when you ask someone if they're Prince Hall.  He can tell you yes, not be lying and still be irregular.  He might be PHO.  I always ask specifically if they are PHA!


----------



## Warrior1256

AndreAshlar said:


> He might be PHO.


Excuse my ignorance Brother, but what is PHO?


----------



## MRichard

Prince Hall Origin (National Compact) - irregular. PHO reported became extinct at some point and another clandestine group revived it. It reportedly isn't the same as the original PHO which shared lineage with PHA until the split. I haven't researched it thoroughly but that is what I have picked up so far. So take it with a grain of salt.


----------



## mrpierce17

AndreAshlar said:


> That's why you gotta be careful.  Even when you ask someone if they're Prince Hall.  He can tell you yes, not be lying and still be irregular.  He might be PHO.  I always ask specifically if they are PHA!


I just ask what GL are you working under it saves a lot of time and confusion if they are Prince Hall Affiliated , GL should be The Most Worshipful Prince Hall Grand Lodge of said state ( with the exception of Florida witch adds union in their name  , Mississippi uses Stringer in their name & Liberia  witch is 4 letter AF&AM and actually uses Regular in their name) ALL others are MWPH GL of state


----------



## Dontrell Stroman

I do the same now, it's easier than trying to explain what subordinate lodge your in and where it's located, unless they are familiar with the area you live in. Not too long after I was raised, I remember meeting a guy in a restaurant establishment. While I was eating  he either noticed my ball cap or ring. He  came to my table and shook my hand. After shaking my hand he introduced himself said what subordinate lodge he was from. Not being familiar with all subordinate lodges in Alabama,  (BECAUSE THERE ARE SO MANY IN EACH STATE) I had to ask his affiliation. He said PHA. From that day on, I only ask what GL are you from. That nips it in the bud right there and prevents a conversation from turning Masonic if you can find out if there are clandestine from the start.


----------



## Glen Cook

From the GL Utah Fraternal Relations Report today: 
We do wish to take the opportunity to again caution about interaction with clandestine Masons, but from a different vantage point.  For centuries, the primary caution has been to ensure the lodge one visits is a regular lodge.  With the advent of social media, we must be particular about the admonition to avoid engaging in Masonic intercourse with clandestine Masons.  Many of these individuals, to be fair, are unaware that their grand lodge is clandestine, and do not set out to purposely mislead.  Others have a designed pattern of deception.  While we should be respectful and courteous, that does not extend to conversing on the secrets of Freemasonry.


----------



## Warrior1256

Glen Cook said:


> With the advent of social media, we must be particular about the admonition to avoid engaging in Masonic intercourse with clandestine Masons.


VERY true.


----------



## Bloke

Glen Cook said:


> From the GL Utah Fraternal Relations Report today:.......  With the advent of social media, we must be particular about the admonition to avoid engaging in Masonic intercourse with clandestine Masons.....  While we should be respectful and courteous, that does not extend to conversing on the secrets of Freemasonry.



So what is Masonic Intercourse ? I assume it does not involve taking your clothes off 

For me, being a Freemasons does not restrict our Freedom of Association. ... To me, the focus in the above is "does not extend to conversing on the secrets of Freemasonry."..... Obligations and Constitutions vary. For me, I cannot write the secrets of freemasonry.. which means I cannot share the signs, tokens and words associated with them... I cannot enter  a lodge with a brother (or sister) who we are not in amity with... but I must say I've learned a lot speaking to brothers AND sisters on the web and  I am able to do that without violating my obligation or Constitution... The reality is, Freemasons on the web might be interested in ritual and differences in jurisdictions, but never ask about "secrets" because they know them, and even if they know they vary and are curious, they aint gonna ask about them... that's why it is great to get visitors from other jurisdictions who are in amity - because you can learn a lot..

Me, I am more than happy to tell you details like we take our obligations in the east and do not have a pedestal in the middle of the lodge (like many American lodges do). Here, we do not regard these things as "secrets". However I can also feel brothers reading sometimes shift in their seats in discomfort as they read something they see which they feel cannot be written, and I try to respect that... knowing that line is much harder than knowing my obligations..


----------



## MRichard

Bloke said:


> So what is Masonic Intercourse ?



Your second paragraph answers that. Just a term that is used to describe not discussing the secrets of Freemasonry with a clandestine mason or any other person.


----------



## Warrior1256

Bloke said:


> So what is Masonic Intercourse ? I assume it does not involve taking your clothes off


Lol....good one!


Bloke said:


> but I must say I've learned a lot speaking to brothers AND sisters on the web and I am able to do that without violating my obligation or Constitution...


Absolutely! No one says that we can not have a casual conversation with anyone.


----------



## Dontrell Stroman

MRichard said:


> Your second paragraph answers that. Just a term that is used to describe not discussing the secrets of Freemasonry with a clandestine mason or any other person.


I see where brother Bloke is coming from. I thought every regular freemason took the same obligation, but after joining this forum and reading a thread earlier last year I realized that was not so. I guess what bounds one brother, May not bound the other.


----------



## Warrior1256

Travelling Man91 said:


> I see where brother Bloke is coming from. I thought every regular freemason took the same obligation, but after joining this forum and reading a thread earlier last year I realized that was not so. I guess what bounds one brother, May not bound the other.


Very true. From what I have seen ritual and obligation can vary not only from country to country but from lodge to lodge in the same state.


----------



## Glen Cook

MRichard said:


> Your second paragraph answers that. Just a term that is used to describe not discussing the secrets of Freemasonry....


Yes, that is how I used the term.  Note, I did not delineate what those secrets were.


----------



## Dontrell Stroman

Warrior1256 said:


> Very true. From what I have seen ritual and obligation can vary not only from country to country but from lodge to lodge in the same state.


Indeed. Although it is kind of confusing, because I'd like to know the man that went through the same steps as me took the same obligation,  I remind myself that this is one of the many things that makes freemasonry great and strong.


----------



## Bloke

Travelling Man91 said:


> Indeed. Although it is kind of confusing, because I'd like to know the man that went through the same steps as me took the same obligation,  I remind myself that this is one of the many things that makes freemasonry great and strong.



They are going to be broadly the same... keep the secrets, be a good man, obey some sort of rules, be a brother to others. If you get someone on the web detailing how to give a sign or token, you can be sure he either has broken his obligation or is not a mason.

Hmmmmm... there is a tyled forum here, yes ? I really should join it to continue this conversation..


----------



## Dontrell Stroman

Bloke said:


> They are going to be broadly the same... keep the secrets, be a good man, obey some sort of rules, be a brother to others. If you get someone on the web detailing how to give a sign or token, you can be sure he either has broken his obligation or is not a mason.
> 
> Hmmmmm... there is a tyled forum here, yes ? I really should join it to continue this conversation..


I wouldn't even trust a tyled forum. We are taught against it on social networking sites.


----------



## mrpierce17

Travelling Man91 said:


> I wouldn't even trust a tyled forum. We are taught against it on social networking sites.


How would you examine a visitor who's charter would you use???


----------



## Glen Cook

mrpierce17 said:


> How would you examine a visitor who's charter would you use???


I don't understand the reference to a charter


----------



## Glen Cook

Warrior1256 said:


> Very true. From what I have seen ritual and obligation can vary not only from country to country but from lodge to lodge in the same state.


It varies, but having conferred in Utah and UGLE, seen a Scottish EA as late as last Tuesday, and seen others throughout the US, it is fairly similar. Indeed, on occasion , when someone is arrogant enough to direct us all to remember our obs., and I respond that the claimed limitation isn't in my ob., it really isn't in theirs either


----------



## mrpierce17

Glen Cook said:


> I don't understand the reference to a charter


At the forming of any tiled lodge meeting the charter is among other things that must be present


----------



## Glen Cook

mrpierce17 said:


> At the forming of any tiled lodge meeting the charter is among other things that must be present


Ahh, got it.  I usually understand better with simple pictures. 

I didn't understand the Idea to be a tyled meeting, but simply a requirement that all be regular Masons.


----------



## Warrior1256

Glen Cook said:


> It varies, but having conferred in Utah and UGLE, seen a Scottish EA as late as last Tuesday, and seen others throughout the US, it is fairly similar. Indeed, on occasion , when someone is arrogant enough to direct us all to remember our obs., and I respond that the claimed limitation isn't in my ob., it really isn't in theirs either


Agreed. The wording may be a little different or the movements slightly different. but in the end the message is the same.


----------



## dfreybur

Bloke said:


> So what is Masonic Intercourse ?



Doing the stuff that will get you to pass a tiler into a tiled meeting.  Whether it's to a tiler, at the altar at a degree, in private for instruction ...

The obligations say we are not to divulge our secrets but they do not say what those secrets are.  Some brothers go majorly overboard by not asking what is and isn't secret.  The amount that is secret varies by jurisdiction but it never extends to discussing fund raising events.


----------



## Warrior1256

dfreybur said:


> Some brothers go majorly overboard by not asking what is and isn't secret.


I believe that this is one of the causes of those crazy conspiracy theories.


----------



## Dontrell Stroman

Hey where is your lodge located ? I can't talk about it, it's a secret. What can you talk about, nothing. Lol


----------



## Warrior1256

Travelling Man91 said:


> Hey where is your lodge located ? I can't talk about it, it's a secret. What can you talk about, nothing. Lol


Exactly, Lol.


----------



## acjohnson53

Brothers I travel a lot in and out of airports Light shining bright, and I have been approached by many brothers spreading knowledge and wisdom, and like any true Brother they are always willing to assist a Brother, I don't ask who they are affiliated with, It's the Brotherly Love that spreaded...and if I see a distressed and worthy Brother I would do the same...


----------



## Bloke

Where is the double like button ?


----------



## Dontrell Stroman

acjohnson53 said:


> Brothers I travel a lot in and out of airports Light shining bright, and I have been approached by many brothers spreading knowledge and wisdom, and like any true Brother they are always willing to assist a Brother, I don't ask who they are affiliated with, It's the Brotherly Love that spreaded...and if I see a distressed and worthy Brother I would do the same...


Can you elaborate on spending knowledge and wisdom ?


----------



## acjohnson53

You know how brothers gather in the Northeast corner and talk about Last Night...


----------



## acjohnson53

mrpierce17 said:


> At the forming of any tiled lodge meeting the charter is among other things that must be present


So true, it's the first thing I look for...No Charter, No Me....


----------



## Dontrell Stroman

acjohnson53 said:


> You know how brothers gather in the Northeast corner and talk about Last Night...


Talking about what happened last night within a tyled lodge is considered Masonic intercourse. Although we want to see everyone as a brother mason. The sad part is our Masonic obligation forbids it.


----------



## acjohnson53

dfreybur said:


> Doing the stuff that will get you to pass a tiler into a tiled meeting.  Whether it's to a tiler, at the altar at a degree, in private for instruction ...
> 
> The obligations say we are not to divulge our secrets but they do not say what those secrets are.  Some brothers go majorly overboard by not asking what is and isn't secret.  The amount that is secret varies by jurisdiction but it never extends to discussing fund raising events.





Travelling Man91 said:


> Talking about what happened last night within a tyled lodge is considered Masonic intercourse. Although we want to see everyone as a brother mason. The sad part is our Masonic obligation forbids it.



We know how far to go with our obligation, do cigarettes come with that Masonic intercourse..../G\


----------



## acjohnson53

As a matter of fact, If I see the WM start to do Lodge business I'll interrupt and ask to see it...


----------



## Dontrell Stroman

I understand what you are saying and I know many brothers that hold Masonic conversations with gentleman that were made masons in "clandestine" lodges. My obligation forbids me to hold Masonic intercourse with clandestine made masons.


----------



## mrpierce17

Masonic intercourse to my knowledge is discussing signs , passwords, grips or degree work  anything else is fair game who cares about when the next fish fry is or what bills need to be payed no secrets there just my 2 cent but to each his own


----------



## Dontrell Stroman

mrpierce17 said:


> Masonic intercourse to my knowledge is discussing signs , passwords, grips or degree work  anything else is fair game who cares about when the next fish fry is or what bills need to be payed no secrets there just my 2 cent but to each his own


Talking about lodge finances is a no no.


----------



## mrpierce17

If you search the topics you will see many on here speaking on dues and such is that not finances ...I wouldn't expect anyone to flat out run around telling what money was on hand in treasuries or light bill amount that wouldn't make for good conversation and is flat out tmi but I get where your coming from and I can agree with that no one likes to talk about money


----------



## Dontrell Stroman

mrpierce17 said:


> If you search the topics you will see many on here speaking on dues and such is that not finances ...I wouldn't expect anyone to flat out run around telling what money was on hand in treasuries or light bill amount that wouldn't make for good conversation and is flat out tmi but I get where your coming from and I can agree with that no one likes to talk about money


Agreed, I'm speaking on what's given in the treasury report, not general conversation. "Oh they raised our dues"


----------



## Warrior1256

Travelling Man91 said:


> My obligation forbids me to hold Masonic intercourse with clandestine made masons.


Same here.


----------



## acjohnson53

it's not an open discussion, my thing is how can we make our Lodge Stronger, How can we ensure that the next group get their tools to work with, or what causes can we donate to, or our sickness and distressed can see that the Lodge got their back during their time of need....


----------



## PHAmily!

crono782 said:


> Weird. Wonder what they call non-PHA in states like Cali, Alabama, Georgia, Florida, Indiana, and many others that are F&AM....
> 
> 
> My Freemasonry HD


I am in Florida. lake hall lodge no.33 we call them the same thing 3 letter and four letter


----------



## PHAmily!

BroBook said:


> For some stupid reason regular lodges in Florida don't recognize prince hall, what may I ask what is that stupid reason?


I was recently passed pha I have heard bad things about pha I have heard good I still went prince hall I am an e.a. so we will see and when I did pass they warned me at my own consequence about wearing paraphilia so I have not worn anything but this the way most black Greek fraternity's work am I right  and they were taught by mason's so may be its a cultural  thing ....


----------



## acjohnson53

First Free Masonry is not Greek, this is not a college fraternity, second you are an Entered Apprentice you should stop listening to what people tell you and get proficient  for the next degree.. If You have questions you should get with the Brother that is in charge of your Degree Team, he can answer all your questions. if you are reading this stuff on this site you have to much time on your hand.....I am a Prince Hall Mason....in California they call us Prince Hall Masons....go to MWPHGLCA....


----------



## acjohnson53

WANT SOME KNOWLEDGE "Look to the East"


----------



## acjohnson53

I see u Bro Warrior1256, I spent a lot time in the Louisville area, Shawnee Park in the summer time. Executive Lounge, King's Chicken, Freedom Hall during concert season.....I was station at Ft Knox in the early 80's


----------



## tldubb

MRichard said:


> Most clandestine lodges are four letter. They like to use it as a pretense to show that they are somehow legitimate. More of an issue in the Black community. (And no that is not racial).


They like to confuse especially to the profane who really don't know the difference.


----------



## Warrior1256

acjohnson53 said:


> I see u Bro Warrior1256, I spent a lot time in the Louisville area, Shawnee Park in the summer time. Executive Lounge, King's Chicken, Freedom Hall during concert season.....I was station at Ft Knox in the early 80's


I moved to this area from WV after retiring from Corrections. I really like it here.


----------



## Derinique Kendrick

PHAmily! said:


> I was recently passed pha I have heard bad things about pha I have heard good I still went prince hall I am an e.a. so we will see and when I did pass they warned me at my own consequence about wearing paraphilia so I have not worn anything but this the way most black Greek fraternity's work am I right  and they were taught by mason's so may be its a cultural  thing ....


Are you a MM, brother?


----------



## Derinique Kendrick

PHAmily! said:


> I was recently passed pha I have heard bad things about pha I have heard good I still went prince hall I am an e.a. so we will see and when I did pass they warned me at my own consequence about wearing paraphilia so I have not worn anything but this the way most black Greek fraternity's work am I right  and they were taught by mason's so may be its a cultural  thing ....


Are you a, MM? If you are, pardon me asking, it's just that I am having a hard time understanding your wording. You stated that you were recently passed, and then turned around and said you were an EA. Do you mind clarifying for me, so I won't come off as ignorant?


----------



## Derinique Kendrick

Going off of what I am reading, you are not. I could be making an honest mistake though so if I am, please forgive me. However, @PHAmily! if you are NOT a MM, please remove your Masonic avatar until you have earned the right to use it as you do not even know what ALL of the symbols (tools) in it represent as of yet. I mean no harm, just a little wise counsel.

Have a great day,

Brother Kendrick
Greensboro Lodge No. 223 (Current JW)
Greensboro, Georgia
MWPHGLGA


----------



## Randy81

Derinique Kendrick said:


> Going off of what I am reading, you are not. I could be making an honest mistake though so if I am, please forgive me. However, @PHAmily! if you are NOT a MM, please remove your Masonic avatar until you have earned the right to use it as you do not even know what ALL of the symbols (tools) in it represent as of yet. I mean no harm, just a little wise counsel.
> 
> Have a great day,
> 
> Brother Kendrick
> Greensboro Lodge No. 223 (Current JW)
> Greensboro, Georgia
> MWPHGLGA


His posts confused me as well. They were very hard to follow.


----------



## Dontrell Stroman

Derinique Kendrick said:


> Going off of what I am reading, you are not. I could be making an honest mistake though so if I am, please forgive me. However, @PHAmily! if you are NOT a MM, please remove your Masonic avatar until you have earned the right to use it as you do not even know what ALL of the symbols (tools) in it represent as of yet. I mean no harm, just a little wise counsel.
> 
> Have a great day,
> 
> Brother Kendrick
> Greensboro Lodge No. 223 (Current JW)
> Greensboro, Georgia
> MWPHGLGA


How far are  you from Atlanta ?


----------



## Derinique Kendrick

Randy81 said:


> His posts confused me as well. They were very hard to follow.


Ok great so I'm not the only one that got threw for a loop


----------



## tldubb

I was scratching my head as well.


----------



## acjohnson53

Young Brother don't passify his need for knowledge. remember warn off cowans and eavesdropper's. I put it like they meet PH Mason's and wonder what we do that's so different...I put my left leg in first...


----------



## acjohnson53

Bro Wilson it's been a minute...


----------



## acjohnson53

They call non PHA Brothers, Brother..


----------



## PHAmily!

Derinique Kendrick said:


> Are you a MM, brother?


no I was recently initiated I am an entered apprentice


----------



## acjohnson53

Brother I'm not trying to tell you how to gain your knowledge in masonry , but this is not the place. These Brothers will eat you alive including myself. this place will miss lead on some important stuff you will gain in the future.. I recommend you come back to this sight when you gain more knowledge...


----------



## MRichard

acjohnson53 said:


> Brother I'm not trying to tell you how to gain your knowledge in masonry , but this is not the place. These Brothers will eat you alive including myself. this place will miss lead on some important stuff you will gain in the future.. I recommend you come back to this sight when you gain more knowledge...



What will this place mislead you on? That is some peculiar advice.


----------



## PHAmily!

acjohnson53 said:


> Brother I'm not trying to tell you how to gain your knowledge in masonry , but this is not the place. These Brothers will eat you alive including myself. this place will miss lead on some important stuff you will gain in the future.. I recommend you come back to this sight when you gain more knowledge...


thanks brah its ok having been often tried never denied and willing to be tried AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!#357


----------



## MRichard

PHAmily! said:


> thanks brah its ok having been often tried never denied and willing to be tried AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!#357



Somehow, I doubt that. Focus on section about subduing your passions.


----------



## PHAmily!

MRichard said:


> Somehow, I doubt that. Focus on section about subduing your passions.


sounds great will do!!!!!


----------



## mrpierce17

PHAmily! said:


> thanks brah its ok having been often tried never denied and willing to be tried AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!#357


Brother I would suggest you take heed to the above advice and remember your new name masonry is a journey not a race and I believe you where taught to be off when the time comes congratulations on being entered and I wish you peace and blessings on your Masonic journey remember your precious jewels given to you in the E.A. lecture


----------



## Warrior1256

MRichard said:


> What will this place mislead you on? That is some peculiar advice.


I'd like to know the answer to this myself! I've learned a great deal on these forums.


mrpierce17 said:


> Brother I would suggest you take heed to the above advice and remember your new name masonry is a journey


Very true.


----------



## Bloke

acjohnson53 said:


> .... this is not the place. These Brothers will eat you alive including myself. this place will miss lead on some important stuff you will gain in the future.. I recommend you come back to this sight when you gain more knowledge...



I, Bloke, Thrice Past Master and a Zombie Shriner, despite, as a Zombie and member of the eternally damned, and obviously having a penchant for brains and human flesh generally, hereby,  most sincerely promise and swear, to resist eating anyone on this board, whether dead or alive. regular, or irregular, or just dropping by. I further promise and swear not to eat those nearest and dearest to him in the persons of his wife, sister, brother, child, second cousins once removed, neighbours or anyone else he knows, or his pets or anything else living and breathing and close to him, with the exception of any fish, fowl, other and all game, cattle, chickens,and any other living, or once living produce, readily available within the laws of the land, especially the chickens, whether supplied to me in a raw, or unraw state, whether free or at a hopefully slightly below market value, without detriment to myself, himself, or our connections.

So help me webmaster,  and me steadfast, denying my poor, weak and brains-thirsty zombie nature.

SO MOTE IT BE !


----------



## Warrior1256

acjohnson53 said:


> These Brothers will eat you alive


What do you mean by this? Ever since I have been a member of this forum I have been treated with dignity and respect and have been given a great deal of information!


----------



## Warrior1256

Bloke said:


> I, Bloke, Thrice Past Master and a Zombie Shriner, despite, as a Zombie and member of the eternally damned, and obviously having a penchant for brains and human flesh generally, hereby,  most sincerely promise and swear, to resist eating anyone on this board, whether dead or alive. regular, or irregular, or just dropping by. I further promise and swear not to eat those nearest and dearest to him in the persons of his wife, sister, brother, child, second cousins once removed, neighbours or anyone else he knows, or his pets or anything else living and breathing and close to him, with the exception of any fish, fowl, other and all game, cattle, chickens,and any other living, or once living produce, readily available within the laws of the land, especially the chickens, whether supplied to me in a raw, or unraw state, whether free or at a hopefully slightly below market value, without detriment to myself, himself, or our connections.
> 
> So help me webmaster,  and me steadfast, denying my poor, weak and brains-thirsty zombie nature.
> 
> SO MOTE IT BE !


LOL!!!


----------



## MRichard

Warrior1256 said:


> What do you mean by this? Ever since I have been a member of this forum I have been treated with dignity and respect and have been given a great deal of information!



Some people just tend to be overly dramatic. Some of these posts are just in left field.


----------



## acjohnson53

Brother Warrior1256 I was simply referring him self as an EA..


----------



## acjohnson53

referring to the brother that called him an ea


----------



## BroBook

I think he was saying, since you don't know what are talking about don't talk !!!


----------



## Ripcord22A

@BroBook your profile says that you are a member of
Home Lodge:
Wright#85 A.f. & A.M.
Grand Lodge:
Prince Grand lodge of fl.
However PHA is F&AM and i cant find that lodge on the on the MWUGLof FL website.  you also claim..."I am a avid seeker of truth" how can this be if you have been a clandestine mason for over 30 years?


----------



## tldubb




----------



## MRichard

jdmadsenCraterlake211 said:


> @BroBook your profile says that you are a member of
> Home Lodge:
> Wright#85 A.f. & A.M.
> Grand Lodge:
> Prince Grand lodge of fl.
> However PHA is F&AM and i cant find that lodge on the on the MWUGLof FL website.  you also claim..."I am a avid seeker of truth" how can this be if you have been a clandestine mason for over 30 years?



If memory serves me correct, he was healed over a year or two ago. Probably never updated his profile but he has mentioned longing to Excelsior lodge or something under the PHA grand lodge in Florida.


----------



## PHAmily!

when is one said to be a mason is the first degree or after one is raised I am hearing conflicting info


----------



## MRichard

PHAmily! said:


> when is one said to be a mason is the first degree or after one is raised I am hearing conflicting info



You are a freemason when initiated. Most jurisdictions teach their EAs & FCs not to use any symbols of the craft (like your avatar) until after you are raised and become a Master Mason. Usually advised not to visit unless you were with a brother from your lodge.


----------



## PHAmily!

MRichard said:


> You are a freemason when initiated. Most jurisdictions teach their EAs & FCs not to use any symbols of the craft (like your avatar) until after you are raised and become a Master Mason. Usually advised not to visit unless you were with a brother from your lodge.


Thanks


----------



## Ripcord22A

tldubb said:


>


 not sure what the point of this was.....


----------



## BroBook

I have question for you My good sir, are you implying that only " regular " masons are looking for the truth? And no I have not been clandestine for over 30, that word has come to mean something that it does not, there was, is or will be nothing secret about my masonic affiliation. Bro Richards already vouched that reported being healed, that was done because of this forum of well informed brethren, since you looked at my profile, why did you  not do a through investigation, and read some of my post/comments!


----------



## tldubb

Well In my jurisdiction MWPHGL of PA..all lodges open & close on the 3rd...the lodge is lowered and or raised do to any degree work.


----------



## MRichard

BroBook said:


> I have question for you My good sir, are you implying that only " regular " masons are looking for the truth? And no I have not been clandestine for over 30, that word has come to mean something that it does not, there was, is or will be nothing secret about my masonic affiliation. Bro Richards already vouched that reported being healed, that was done because of this forum of well informed brethren, since you looked at my profile, why did you  not do a through investigation, and read some of my post/comments!



There are alot of good brothers that started off as clandestine. I wouldn't argue about what I consider clandestine. It is what it is. What matters is that you are now part of a regular lodge. Doesn't matter if it is not recognized yet. Hopefully, all the regular but unrecognized grand lodges will get recognition someday.


----------



## Derinique Kendrick

tldubb said:


> Well In my jurisdiction MWPHGL of PA..all lodges open & close on the 3rd...the lodge is lowered and or raised do to any degree work.


Likewise in Georgia


----------



## Derinique Kendrick

MRichard said:


> Hopefully, all the regular but unrecognized grand lodges will get recognition someday.


Patiently waiting on that day


----------



## Ripcord22A

BroBook said:


> I have question for you My good sir, are you implying that only " regular " masons are looking for the truth? And no I have not been clandestine for over 30, that word has come to mean something that it does not, there was, is or will be nothing secret about my masonic affiliation. Bro Richards already vouched that reported being healed, that was done because of this forum of well informed brethren, since you looked at my profile, why did you  not do a through investigation, and read some of my post/comments!


 
 The only reason I looked at your profile was your comment about keeping his mouth shut.  It seemed kinda rude, and Ive only experienced that type of behaviour form Clandestine Masons.  So i took a peek and i saw that you had listed a clandestine lodge and GL.  So I said what I said.  I appoligize if I came off rude.  Just trying to guard that west gate! 

Yes I would say that only regular mason are seekers of truth.  Because if you are duped in to joining a bogus lodge and you never find out, then you obviously having been seeking truth.  Any one can get duped, i had no idea about fake freemasonry prior to joining the craft.  However a simple search of Freemasony on line will pull up plenty on the subject.....But its good to know that you found the light.


----------



## Ripcord22A

tldubb said:


> Well In my jurisdiction MWPHGL of PA..all lodges open & close on the 3rd...the lodge is lowered and or raised do to any degree work.


   NM PH is the same way,  I am curious.....if you have a profeciency that needs to be turned in you make the BRO wait outside till the lodge is opned and then lowered and then make him leave after his profeciency?  Also so you make the candidte leave after the degree is completed but before lodge is closed?


----------



## BroBook

You do understand that there was no "on line " in 1984? Also the Grand lodge I was under split from the one I am now under in 1910. Lastly in Florida and five other Deep South " states all of Prince Hall is still considered clandestine, and no I was not being rude I was trying to point to the new name given to an EA in most jurisdictions, but thanks you made me update my profile. WWEA, SMIB!!!


----------



## Derinique Kendrick

jdmadsenCraterlake211 said:


> NM PH is the same way,  I am curious.....if you have a profeciency that needs to be turned in you make the BRO wait outside till the lodge is opned and then lowered and then make him leave after his profeciency?  Also so you make the candidte leave after the degree is completed but before lodge is closed?


Exactly how it is in Georgia. They opened on the third as normal, lowered to 1 and 2 for my initiation and passing, I left after those degrees, and they went back up to 3 for closing.


----------



## Ripcord22A

BroBook said:


> You do understand that there was no "on line " in 1984? and no I was not being rude I was trying to point to the new name given to an EA in most jurisdictions, but thanks you made me update my profile. WWEA, SMIB!!!


 
yes I know that there was no internet in 1984.  Hence why i said anyone could be douped. 

New name for EAs?  Never heard anything but EA.  can you elaborate.

also WWEA?  not familar with that one....

Again I am sorry for coming accross as i did!


----------



## dfreybur

BroBook said:


> You do understand that there was no "on line " in 1984?



For most of the world on-line happened in 1993 when AOL introduced Internet support.

Before that you have to be at a government research center, on a military base, at a university.  Because so many universities gave out accounts to every student the number with Internet access was trickling in.

We used to joke about September because of the newbies coming on line who needed to learn the culture.  I remember being a September person but since my access was through a government research center my symbolic September happened in July.  Then 1993 happened and we've been in "Eternal September" ever since.



> Lastly in Florida and five other Deep South " states all of Prince Hall is still considered clandestine



Incorrectly of course.  Regular is the opposite of Clandestine.  Even 50 year members confused clandestine and not-recognized.  Sad.


----------



## Ripcord22A

Derinique Kendrick said:


> Exactly how it is in Georgia. They opened on the third as normal, lowered to 1 and 2 for my initiation and passing, I left after those degrees, and they went back up to 3 for closing.


 was a brother assigned to you to walk out with you and sit with you and what not till it was closed?  Also did you get to stay in lodge while the rest of the business was done or as soon as the lec was complete you had to leave?


----------



## Derinique Kendrick

jdmadsenCraterlake211 said:


> was a brother assigned to you to walk out with you and sit with you and what not till it was closed?  Also did you get to stay in lodge while the rest of the business was done or as soon as the lec was complete you had to leave?


I was instructed to come in and stay downstairs until a brother came down to get me. The tiler was the one who came downstairs to get me when they were done with the opening. I retired from the lodge after the degrees and lectures. I got my date as to when I was expected back for proficiency and next degree and after that I was out the door.


----------



## Ripcord22A

Derinique Kendrick said:


> I was instructed to come in and stay downstairs until a brother came down to get me. The tiler was the one who came downstairs to get me when they were done with the opening. I retired from the lodge after the degrees and lectures. I got my date as to when I was expected back for proficiency and next degree and after that I was out the door.


 
Thats crazy to me.  In both my Jurisdictions lodge can be opened and work done on all 3 degrees.  Also from the moment a candidate walks through the door on degree night he is not left alon till he is placed in the prep room for the chamber of reflection.  Then after the degree hes not alone till he leaves the building with everyone else.


----------



## MRichard

BroBook said:


> Lastly in Florida and five other Deep South " states all of Prince Hall is still considered clandestine, and no I was not being rude I was trying to point to the new name given to an EA in most jurisdictions, but thanks you made me update my profile. WWEA, SMIB!!!



There are nine states (LA, MS, TN, WV, FL, GA, AL, AR, & SC) that don't recognize PHA grand lodges. I don't know if they consider PHA clandestine in all nine states. Those PHA grand lodges are regular but unrecognized regardless how a grand lodge considers them. Each grand lodge is sovereign so they can basically make up their own rules on recognition to some extent when recognizing other grand lodges.


----------



## Dontrell Stroman

MRichard said:


> There are nine states (LA, MS, TN, WV, FL, GA, AL, AR, & SC) that don't recognize PHA grand lodges. I don't know if they consider PHA clandestine in all nine states. Those PHA grand lodges are regular but unrecognized regardless how a grand lodge considers them. Each grand lodge is sovereign so they can basically make up their own rules on recognition to some extent when recognizing other grand lodges.


I thought West Virginia decided to recognize PHA ?


----------



## acjohnson53

That's how it's done, there are know profanes in the Lodge until the Lodge is lowered to that degree they are working on...


----------



## MRichard

Travelling Man91 said:


> I thought West Virginia decided to recognize PHA ?



I doubt it.


----------



## Derinique Kendrick

jdmadsenCraterlake211 said:


> Thats crazy to me.  In both my Jurisdictions lodge can be opened and work done on all 3 degrees.  Also from the moment a candidate walks through the door on degree night he is not left alon till he is placed in the prep room for the chamber of reflection.  Then after the degree hes not alone till he leaves the building with everyone else.


I guess they do it that way to make sure the candidate doesn't get more than they are supposed to get at that time.


----------



## BroBook

jdmadsenCraterlake211 said:


> yes I know that there was no internet in 1984.  Hence why i said anyone could be douped.
> 
> New name for EAs?  Never heard anything but EA.  can you elaborate.
> 
> also WWEA?  not familar with that one....
> 
> Again I am sorry for coming accross as i did!


No problem my brother, caution, world without end amen!!!


----------



## Ripcord22A

EAs are being called Caustions now?


----------



## Dontrell Stroman

BroBook said:


> No problem my brother, caution, world without end amen!!!


Did for forget your obligation ????? (⊙＿⊙)


----------



## Bloke

jdmadsenCraterlake211 said:


> EAs are being called Caustions now?


Never heard of read that...


----------



## BroBook

Did I drop something?


----------



## dfreybur

Travelling Man91 said:


> I thought West Virginia decided to recognize PHA ?



Involved story.  Edict, revolution by the next cycle of grand line officers, eventual expulsion of the edicting PGM.  Very much an embarassment to all involved. Web search for PGM Haas.


----------



## Dontrell Stroman

dfreybur said:


> Involved story.  Edict, revolution by the next cycle of grand line officers, eventual expulsion of the edicting PGM.  Very much an embarassment to all involved. Web search for PGM Haas.


I'm not understanding, so are they recognized or not ?


----------



## MRichard

Travelling Man91 said:


> I'm not understanding, so are they recognized or not ?



They are one of the states that don't recognize PHA as I mentioned earlier.


----------



## Bill Lins

jdmadsenCraterlake211 said:


> I am curious.....if you have a proficiency that needs to be turned in you make the BRO wait outside till the lodge is opened and then lowered and then make him leave after his proficiency?  Also so you make the candidate leave after the degree is completed but before lodge is closed?


GLoTX did the same until 2007- all Lodges opened on the 3rd Degree and called down for degree work & proficiencies. All other business was done in a MM Lodge only.


----------



## Dontrell Stroman

MRichard said:


> They are one of the states that don't recognize PHA as I mentioned earlier.


Yes but I read an article and spoke with some brothers that said they had received  recognition. I'll do more research. Maybe it was up for discussion.


----------



## MRichard

Travelling Man91 said:


> Yes but I read an article and spoke with some brothers that said they had received  recognition. I'll do more research. Maybe it was up for discussion.



I think it would have made the masonic news if it happened. Haven't heard anything. But you never know.


----------



## Dontrell Stroman

MRichard said:


> I think it would have made the masonic news if it happened. Haven't heard anything. But you never know.


Yes your right. Again, I'll look into it more. I know for most it was a shocker for NC.


----------



## MRichard

They is a brother here that lives in the area but doesn't post much anymore. @raymondswalters  He would know for sure.


----------



## dfreybur

Travelling Man91 said:


> I'm not understanding, so are they recognized or not ?



Apparently were recognized for a short time by edict from Haas.  That's when the revolution happened by the rest of the grand line moving up.

You asked "are" in the present tense.  I gave history.  The present tense answer is no but the history is interesting in sort of the way people on the highway slow down to look at a wreck.


----------



## MRichard

dfreybur said:


> Apparently were recognized for a short time by edict from Haas.  That's when the revolution happened by the rest of the grand line moving up.
> 
> You asked "are" in the present tense.  I gave history.  The present tense answer is no but the history is interesting in sort of the way people on the highway slow down to look at a wreck.



I didn't realize that they even recognized them at all. The version I heard was he got in trouble cause they didn't want Black men joining their grand lodge and he tried to make it easier.


----------



## Bloke

MRichard said:


> I didn't realize that they even recognized them at all. The version I heard was he got in trouble cause they didn't want Black men joining their grand lodge and he tried to make it easier.



Is there much difference?  If you act in a racist way, you're racist ? I think so...


----------



## acjohnson53

yeah it's a great big mix up with them blue house and them shriners in some jurisdictions...


----------



## The Traveling Man

jdmadsenCraterlake211 said:


> NM PH is the same way,  I am curious.....if you have a profeciency that needs to be turned in you make the BRO wait outside till the lodge is opned and then lowered and then make him leave after his profeciency?  Also so you make the candidte leave after the degree is completed but before lodge is closed?



In Michigan it would work like this:
If  there was an EA and FC present who both had to do proficiency, Lodge would open in the EA. The EA would give his proficiency, then he and the FC would leave. Lodge would go to MM for a vote. Then it would be lowered to FC. The FC would re-enter, do his proficiency then leave. They would go to MM again for vote. Then go back to EA, both the EA and FC would re-enter. The business would be conducted in the EA and then close in the EA. If there were FCs and no EAs present in the above scenerio, the Lodge would open and close on the FC.


----------



## Warrior1256

The Traveling Man said:


> In Michigan it would work like this:
> If  there was an EA and FC present who both had to do proficiency, Lodge would open in the EA. The EA would give his proficiency, then he and the FC would leave. Lodge would go to MM for a vote. Then it would be lowered to FC. The FC would re-enter, do his proficiency then leave. They would go to MM again for vote. Then go back to EA, both the EA and FC would re-enter. The business would be conducted in the EA and then close in the EA. If there were FCs and no EAs present in the above scenerio, the Lodge would open and close on the FC.


I have never run into this situation but I think that this is probably the way that we would do it here.


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## dfreybur

In my jurisdictions a candidate can present proficiency at a Stated meeting, a Special/Called meeting or before his degree.

At a degree we open to the degree of the degree (no kidding), call down, admit the Brother, do the proficiency, call up.  At that point he becomes a candidate because he isn't of that degree yet.  The degree ceremony starts.

At a Stated meeting we open to that degree.  Same with a Special/Called meeting specifically for a proficiency.  So far I have never encountered brothers of other degrees presenting on the same night.  There's always the meeting next week for that.

It can happen in theory.  Open in EA.  Do EA proficiency.  Dismiss EAs.  Call up to FC.  Do FC proficiency.  Call down to EA.  Admit EAs.  Same pattern for any combination of proficiencies.  I've only done this in practices not in opened meetings so far.

So that's slightly less complex than Michigan.


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## The Traveling Man

We've had an EA, FC and MM do proficiencies in the same night. A lot of opening and closing. But with our busy schedule, candidates in waiting, EAs and FCs still waiting to be passed and raised, I guess it's better that way.


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## acjohnson53

Y'all  were burning some Mid-night oil on that one.../G\


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