# Kind of a Roll Call- 4 questions



## MasterBulldawg (Feb 2, 2014)

Brothers,

I am looking to find info on lodges in other parts of the country or in other countries:

Q1- What is the initiation fee?

Q2- What is the dues for your lodge?

Q3- How many members do you have at a stated or call meeting vs. total membership?

Q4- What kinds of meetings do you have?  i.e. 2 stated  or 1 stated & family night etc.

thanks for you time in responding.


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## MasterBulldawg (Feb 2, 2014)

Here is my lodges info:
Brothers,

I am looking to find info on lodges in other parts of the country or in other countries:

Q1- What is the initiation fee? *Ours is $50 for each degree *

Q2- What is the dues for your lodge? *Ours is $55 a year*

Q3- How many members do you have at a stated or call meeting vs. total membership? 
*We have about 150 members at a stated meeting we have between 6 to 12 member on the sideline with the all the chairs filled.*

Q4- What kinds of meetings do you have?  i.e. 2 stated  or 1 stated & family night etc. *We have 2 stated a month with 2 open events ( widows lunch and  Americanism night) a year.*


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## Companion Joe (Feb 2, 2014)

1. Our initiation fee is $100 paid up front before the EA.
2. Our dues are $64.
3. Our membership is about 150. We generally have 25-30 at stated meetings and 35-50 for degree work.
4. We have one stated meeting for business. We do degree work as needed. Some months, we might have 3-4 degree nights in addition to the stated meeting. Some months, none.


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## JJones (Feb 2, 2014)

_Q1- What is the initiation fee?_

My lodge charges $100 for each degree if I'm not mistaken.  We also charge $40 for a background check when a petitioner turns in his paperowrk.

_Q2- What is the dues for your lodge?
_
$75

_Q3- How many members do you have at a stated or call meeting vs. total membership?_

About 10-20/70 on average.  It's a pretty good ratio when you compare it with other local lodges.

_Q4- What kinds of meetings do you have? i.e. 2 stated or 1 stated & family night etc.
_
1 stated per month with practices on a weekly basis.


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## KSigMason (Feb 2, 2014)

MasterBulldawg said:


> Q1- What is the initiation fee?


$300



> Q2- What is the dues for your lodge?


$125



> Q3- How many members do you have at a stated or call meeting vs. total membership?


20-25 active members vs ~170 total members



> Q4- What kinds of meetings do you have?  i.e. 2 stated  or 1 stated & family night etc.


Stated meetings, initiations, practice nights, table lodges, picnics, and fellowship nights (go somewhere fun to hang out).


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## rfuller (Feb 3, 2014)

1) $185 (I think)
2) $60
3) 20-30 out of 200
4) 1 stated meeting, weekly floor practice, degrees as needed.


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## MarkR (Feb 4, 2014)

Total of fees and assessments for initiation: $122.50.  $30 application fee, $25 at each degree, $12.50 Minnesota Masonic Foundation, $5 George Washington Masonic Memorial fee

Annual dues $70

20-30 out of about 140 (but being a northern lodge, a lot of the brothers still on the rolls don't live in the area anymore.)

Two stated communications a month; one for business and lodge education, one for business and conferring degrees.  Nothing in Minnesota Masonic Code prohibits conferring degrees at stated communications.  Dark in July and August, only one stated in December.


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## Brother_Steve (Feb 4, 2014)

MasterBulldawg said:


> Q1- What is the initiation fee?


$350. 100 dollar app fee. 250 due at initiation. Covers dues for the year and other degree items passed out.



MasterBulldawg said:


> Q2- What is the dues for your lodge?


104 if you go through paypal so figure three dollars off that fee.



MasterBulldawg said:


> Q3- How many members do you have at a stated or call meeting vs. total membership?


Our average is roughly 20 not including officers. We have 250ish members. We could not seat every member if they came out though.



MasterBulldawg said:


> Q4- What kinds of meetings do you have?  i.e. 2 stated  or 1 stated & family night etc.


- 1st monday of the month = Craftsman's Club. It is an informal dinner open to members and friends. Our senior warden discusses fundraising ideas here. Sometimes we have a presentation from the fire department or police department.

- 2nd and 4th Monday is our stated meeting.

- 3rd Saturday is our Breakfast with Hiram. It is open to the public and we cook breakfast to order. If it is in our fridge we will cook it up (so long as it is breakfast food!)



MasterBulldawg said:


> thanks for you time in responding.


Anytime.


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## DJGurkins (Feb 4, 2014)

MasterBulldawg said:


> Brothers,
> 
> I am looking to find info on lodges in other parts of the country or in other countries:
> 
> ...



We don't go dark any time thru the year. we will probably start opening up for socializing 2 Saturdays a month.


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## goomba (Feb 4, 2014)

Q1- What is the initiation fee?  Going to $200.00 this year plus a $15.00 back ground check.

Q2- What is the dues for your lodge?  Going to $100.00 this year.

Q3- How many members do you have at a stated or call meeting vs. total membership?  7-15 out of 70.

Q4- What kinds of meetings do you have? i.e. 2 stated or 1 stated & family night etc.  Two stated meetings per month, two degree practices per month, family meals at local establishments as often as possible (usually once a month).


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## cacarter (Feb 4, 2014)

Q1- $100 for EA/FC, $125 for MM. $325 total

Q2- $100

Q3-  ~20 at practice, ~30 at meetings. Total membership is ~100. 

Q4- Monthly stated. Practice weekly. Degrees as needed. Widow's night, family night, etc.


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## Companion Joe (Feb 4, 2014)

Here is a question for those of you from Lodges with (what I consider) high fees/dues $100+:

How does this impact your Lodges trying to bring in young members or retaining older ones? In our area, I honestly think it would destroy the Craft. How does a young man just starting out afford dues/fees that high - especially if he has a family to support? How does an older member on a fixed income do it? We have a Grand Lodge officer that keeps telling about these Lodges elsewhere with high dues and saying "We are selling Masonry too cheap. We need to raise the price to make people want to come out for their money's worth." That's great in theory, but if people don't have the money in the first place, how do we get them in? 

I am already a life member of both my Chapter and Council. I will do a life membership for my Lodge later this year to avoid increasing dues and per capita tax. When I joined the Lodge at at 22, the fee was $66 (which my dad must have paid, because I don't remember doing it), and dues were $25. I remember in my early 30s when they started creeping up toward where they are now, I never failed to pay my dues, but I did have to think ahead and put a little back each month to make sure I had it come December. I've lived paycheck to paycheck. It's not fun. If a man has to decide what is more important, spending $100 to make sure his family has what it needs or belonging to a fraternity, the decision had better not be a hard one. If I had been 22 and the Lodge asked me for $350 the night of my EA, I guess I would have had to turn around and leave. Now at 42 and making what I feel is a good living, I could afford it. Back then, it wouldn't have mattered how much I loved Masonry, I simply wouldn't have had that much available for dues.

Granted, living in New York City or Dallas or somewhere, $100 isn't what it is where I live today, and $100 today sure wasn't what it was when I became a Mason 20 years ago, but still, I ask: What is the balancing point between "selling Masonry too cheap" and pricing yourself out of reach?


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## JJones (Feb 4, 2014)

> How does this impact your Lodges trying to bring in young members or retaining older ones? In our area, I honestly think it would destroy the Craft. How does a young man just starting out afford dues/fees that high - especially if he has a family to support? How does an older member on a fixed income do it? We have a Grand Lodge officer that keeps telling about these Lodges elsewhere with high dues and saying "We are selling Masonry too cheap. We need to raise the price to make people want to come out for their money's worth." That's great in theory, but if people don't have the money in the first place, how do we get them in?



I've only been a mason for about ten years but I've found that all petitioners my age were really surprised by how cheap the craft is.  They came to our lodge expecting something ancient, solemn, and exclusive and were willing to pay fees proportional to their expectations.  (One brother expected to pay at least 1k by the time he was a MM).

That being said, I doubt highers dues would destroy the craft.  Would every brother be able to afford higher dues? No, frankly, many of them can't afford them every year as it is.  That being said, if a brother being unable to pay their dues isn't a chance to practice some masonic charity then I don't know what is.

I'm not in favor of raising dues just for the sake of raising them however.  My opinion is dues should be high enough to support the lodge and the cultivation of whatever benevolence the lodge sees fit.


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## cacarter (Feb 4, 2014)

Those are good points CompanionJoe.  I'm 25, and like you became a mason at 22. When I joined (the same lodge as rfuller, and dues were $40 back then) I was shocked at how "cheap" masonry was. It's similar to what JJones said. I paid more in dues and initiation fees for my college organization (not a fraternity and those are even more expensive). I figured I was willing to pay whatever price for masonry. The degree fees were thankfully payable before each degree, not upfront. 

The older members on fixed income is something to consider when raising dues now. My new lodge is more expensive and we have a number of young guys joining. It will be interesting to find out what happens if they start having families soon. Because I'm a couple of years away from a family, my fiancÃ©e and I have agreed to pay for as many endowed/life memberships as possible now so I never have to worry about them again. As of now, I have to save $30 a month to pay for all the dues (2 blue, chapter/council, Commandery, Shrine). 

I guess if it's worth it to a man, he'll find a way. And if he can't, I'm willing to extend a helping hand just like JJones said.


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## Brother JC (Feb 5, 2014)

As we've mentioned in other threads, a person can easily spend $4 a cup for coffee every day without blinking, buy a beer or two every night, have a (useless) gym membership, a huge TV, a monster truck... but .50 (that's fifty cents) a day is too much for Masonry? Priorities.


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## Brother JC (Feb 5, 2014)

My little lodge in NM set dues for seniors at $74, while others pay $240. Mind you, that includes 12 meals. Do essentially you're paying $120 in dues and $10 a meal. And no, you don't get it back if you don't attend.


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## Txmason32 (Feb 5, 2014)

So some of you really think it's OK to pay less than 100 a YEAR ??? Do any of you belong to any other associations or organizations?  What do you pay . I belong to ACCA (air conditioning Contractors of America ) dues are 800 a year . Service round table 50 a month . My wife's veterinarian professional service groups are more than lodge dues . Rotary ? Lions club? Even church is 10% .... If a man  has an investment in something he will hold it more important . dues should at least be 1.00 a day .... is your fraternity not worth that ... and yes you should receive something for it such as learning and enlightenment ... older masons paying less who have time should be studying and teaching .. I don't mean just ritual ... There is so much more to masonry than ritual work 

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## rfuller (Feb 5, 2014)

Txmason32 said:


> So some of you really think it's OK to pay less than 100 a YEAR ???



I'm a member of a lodge where dues are only $60, and I think they should be higher.  cacarter and I have spoken about this at length.  We're selling our building this month to move into the SR building here.  So that tells you where low dues will get you.  Building upkeep aside, I think they should still be $100-120 at a Minimum.  I also think we should lock in members' dues when they reach 65.  That might seem like a nightmare for a secretary, but if you've already got all the addresses in excel, adding a special dues rate in there shouldn't be a big deal.  I gave a lecture at our last meeting about the "value" of masonry, and I think low dues has a big part in that.  At $5/month, Masonry is practically disposable, and I hate that.


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## cacarter (Feb 5, 2014)

Might have to replace a lot of secretaries to bring the lodges into the 21st century and have dues on Excel.


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## nixxon2000 (Feb 5, 2014)

Just thought I should chime in on the 100$+ dues. You really have to think about your community, economy, and those who are members. In the town that I live in we have less the. 1000 people. 80-90% are retired and those that aren't are farmers. So with dues over 100$ most of the members would not be able to afford it. We pay 88$ in dues and give charitable donations as often as possible. 

Now when I lived in Orlando Fl with 500k + people and a higher cost of living I expected to pay more and should have. It really does depend on where you live and the economy around you. To have a blanket statement that it should be a specific fee I feel is wrong. 

I feel that Freemasonry is an awesome life changing experience so far. I know I'm not a MM until next month and really do see the priceless value in it. If a lodge can support the fees then by all means it should but sometimes the smaller older lodges need to do whatever they feel is right for their community. 

It's just my opinion and not intended to start an argument. However moving from a major metropolitan area to ultra small town gave me a different perspective. 



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## Txmason32 (Feb 5, 2014)

Most at 65 are normally endowed ... too bad they voted down raising endowment to 1000. My sr and shrine endowments are more than lodge and it should be the other way 

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## rfuller (Feb 5, 2014)

cacarter said:


> Might have to replace a lot of secretaries to bring the lodges into the 21st century and have dues on Excel.



That is absolutely the saddest thing I've read all day.


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## nixxon2000 (Feb 5, 2014)

rfuller said:


> That is absolutely the saddest thing I've read all day.



Agreed


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## Txmason32 (Feb 5, 2014)

I would think most sec. Would be more than happy to learn new stuff ... that's what the fraternity is about any ways 

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## dfreybur (Feb 5, 2014)

JJones said:


> I've only been a mason for about ten years but I've found that all petitioners my age were really surprised by how cheap the craft is.



Twenty years ago when I was raised they handed me my dues bill as a part of the usual presentations after a raising.  My response was "This is per month, right?"  The dues situation has been low for a long enough time even the elderly guys laughed at my expectations.  For all I know it was that many silver dollars back when dollar coins were approximately an ounce of silver (1964) and had been dropping close to inflation ever since.

If you can afford the annual dues monthly I suggest you do exactly that.  In many jurisdictions that offer life/endowed memberships it costs 22 times dues or less.  That's 24 monthly payments including the dues in advance for the first and second years.  Here's the fun part - You're used to paying that much so petition the next order and do it there, too.


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## Txmason32 (Feb 5, 2014)

In Texas the endowment is only 500 ... funny when I was raised they said the dues were 45 and I too thought that was per month lol in 2002 

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## JJones (Feb 5, 2014)

There's a local lodge that's over 90% endowed members.  A few decades ago a well meaning (and apparantly wealthy) brother bought endowments for everyone and, as a result, the lodge has no income from dues and has to rely completely on fund raising to get by.

I think part of the problem is that many brothers think an endowed membership equals a lifetime membership.  Texas doesn't actually offer lifetime memberships if I  understand correctly, endowments were intended to be more of a long term investment in your lodge than a means to avoid paying dues.

Keep in mind that endowments don't have to be kept at 500, especially if they prove detrimental to your lodges financial health.  We raised ours to 1k last year.


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## tomoso (Feb 5, 2014)

I remember reading an article in the Illinois Freemasonry magazine several years ago that said that dues were originally set at about one month's wages with the rationale that it should be enough to  be important to you.  Traveling abroad has taught me that the cost of membership is much higher, even in lower income countries.


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## Brandon Smith (Feb 5, 2014)

Our dues are $120. I believe that to be on the low side. Think about it, thats only $10 a month. Most people pay over $100 for their cable bill


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## Txmason32 (Feb 5, 2014)

Brother Jones didn't they try to raise endowment from 500 to 1k at Grand lodge  and it was voted down 

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## dfreybur (Feb 5, 2014)

Txmason32 said:


> Brother Jones didn't they try to raise endowment from 500 to 1k at Grand lodge  and it was voted down



My Texas lodge voted in 2013 against moving to 1000 as their local number.


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## JJones (Feb 5, 2014)

Txmason32 said:


> Brother Jones didn't they try to raise endowment from 500 to 1k at Grand lodge  and it was voted down
> 
> Sent From My Freemasonry Pro App



I believe so.  GL sets minimums but they don't usually set maximums (as far as I know).  If passed it would have raised the minimum cost for endowments to 1k but, as you know, it didn't pass for whatever reason.  A lodge can still raise it, the cost just has to be in certain increments (I think increments of 100 but I don't have  a law book handy right now).


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## Companion Joe (Feb 5, 2014)

I salute everyone on their apparent ability to pay. As nixxon2000 said, you have to consider your local market. Here, $100+ dues would be very high. Just thinking of our officers alone, three are retired, and three are young and under employed. It would be tough on them. It's not as much a matter of what you think Masonry is "worth" as much it is you can't spend what you don't have. Of course it is a Masonic virtue to help your brother, and we regularly vote to commute the dues of elderly brothers' who are in bad physical and financial shape. But if half of the members are regularly paying twice the dues because others can't, that goes beyond helping, aiding, and assisting. 

As for how much dues cost way back when compared to now, yes they were considerably more expensive. I call your attention to the fact that at the time, Freemasonry was quite elitist - and I suspect that in a number of other countries it still is. As great as our founding fathers were, they were mostly wealthy/upper crust. It is said that Freemasonry is the only place where a prince and a pauper can meet on the level. Well, I suspect that wasn't really the case up until the post WWII boom. Do we want Freemasonry to be elitist going forward by pricing it beyond working people? 

It's easy to say "if it's worth it to you, you'll find a way" when you have money. That's the song of politicians born into wealthy families as they pass laws impacting Americans, whose shoes they've never walked in. Can I and would I pay more, yes, thankfully. I am blessed with a good job, and so is my wife. I just remember being young and struggling. That's why I will do a lifetime membership for as many bodies as possible sooner rather than later so I don't have to worry about it when I retire. I had a Past Grand Illustrious Master tell me that exact thing the other day, how glad he was that he did lifetime memberships, or it would be tough on him now paying all his dues in his 70s.

Our lifetime memberships are 20x whatever your dues+per capita tax is. My Chapter and Council lifetime memberships were $600 for both. When I do my Lodge lifetime membership this year, it will be about $1300; then I won't have to worry about it. About 10 years ago, the the same Past Grand Illustrious Master advised me to do a lifetime membership then. I would have loved to, but there was no way I had what then would have been about $1100 to spend. It would be paying for itself by now. It didn't matter how much I wanted to do it, or how I thought is was worth, that was dang near what I brought home in a month.


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## Brother JC (Feb 5, 2014)

I'm on my way to discuss the term "elitist" with my lodge right now. The fact that we require a petition, an investigation, and a unanimous ballot makes us, by at least one definition, elitist. (Not trying to hijack the thread...)


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## Txmason32 (Feb 5, 2014)

I don't see anything elitist about any of this . It's called keeping the doors open and doing more than carrying a card . The folks in the 20s and 30s weren't the founding fathers and paid much more because it was important to them . We were important to them because they wanted to leave us their great fraternity . What's funny is most of the people griping will spend way more on a hobby or coffee or TV  . I admit it's hard to see the value because most people don't attend lodge because they get nothing from it and they don't quit because it's cheap and nothing they miss . The younger guys demit because value isn't built and they get tired of some guy yelling about the word being that instead of the lol .... elitist no ... selective yes ... sorry even in the old days they did not let everyone in like they do now . Secretive no private yes .... even IBM won't let you in a board meeting but it's not secret or elitist . But hey what we are doing has been working great .... 

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## JJones (Feb 5, 2014)

I agree that it isn't elitism.  I also don't think elite is a dirty word, heck, if we were elite then we wouldn't have to worry about membership would we? We could have our pick of good men.


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## Brother JC (Feb 6, 2014)

Going to answer the original questions for Paideia 852 only:
Q1- What is the initiation fee? $250.00
Q2- What is the dues for your lodge? $336.10
Q3- How many members do you have at a stated or call meeting vs. total membership? 50-75% of the membership, plus a regular selection of visitors.
Q4- What kinds of meetings do you have?  i.e. 2 stated  or 1 stated &amp; family night etc. Three meetings; School of Perfection, Stated Communication, and Lodge of Instruction followed by Agape.


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## dfreybur (Feb 6, 2014)

trysquare said:


> I'm on my way to discuss the term "elitist" with my lodge right now. The fact that we require a petition, an investigation, and a unanimous ballot makes us, by at least one definition, elitist. (Not trying to hijack the thread...)



We also keep lists of famous Masons.

We teach personal excellence and "we make good men better".  How could we possibly be anything other than elitist?

There are many conundrums for how Masonry works.  This is one of them - We are openly and blatantly elitist yet we lead the world in teaching the equality of all men.  Is this like a Zen koan where you can meditate on it for years with no answer?  I don't think so.  I think our lessons about equality and about excellence are about what any one person CAN do.  I think our elitism is about what any one person ACTUALLY does.  We hold each other to to high standards.  Most reach them.  Some exceed them dramatically.

{For the Tao to prevail in the Empire, the Emperor must encourage personal excellence} - paraphrase from the Tao Te Ching

Masonry leads us to this principle.  Masons aren't horses.  We all drink some at least during our degrees.  Some drink more than others of the font of excellence.


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