# Not wanting to go to lodge anymore.



## Levelhead (Apr 1, 2016)

This is sad. I hate when theres something you love to do and are passionate about but it becomes not fun and stressful so you are forced to stop due to a situation. 

Well im the JW in my lodge but me and the SW who at one time i considered my best friend had put a bad taste in my mouth to where i don't want to attend lodge and maybe either demit or just attend my other lodge more. 

But being the JW i have a duty to fulfill until the end of the year.

Its a long story but doing business with a friend of for that matter a "brother" is never a good idea. 

Just sucks because my wife told me today "you were so passionate about Freemasonry and your lodge and now your just different and seem like you are drifting away".

The reality of that really hurt me.   




Sent from Mossy Oak Swamp Bottom


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## Classical (Apr 1, 2016)

Oh no! Sorry to hear that, for what it's worth. Pray about it?


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## Bloke (Apr 1, 2016)

How about some trite sayings like time heals all wounds and the lowest ebb marks the turn of the tide.

Sorry you've had some sort of bad experience brother. If the conflict is personal, but makes it even harder... sound like you've got some dishonourable treatment...


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## Levelhead (Apr 1, 2016)

Just a shame. 


Sent from Mossy Oak Swamp Bottom


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## Bloke (Apr 2, 2016)

Was he dishonest in his dealings or just incompetent... ?


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## Levelhead (Apr 2, 2016)

Well in respect i would not tell the story because its unfair to a person who is not here to defend themselves.

Pretty much in a vague nuttshell..

He was doing some work. He got me into it. But he was un insured.  And could only get paid cash due to personal situations.

He would work for cash only.

Big contracts wanted ins and pay check to a company.

Well im insured, and own a company. We ran everything through my company with my ins. and was running his money through my company.

The big companies said "well your guy cant work on our jobs with no ins or 10/99. 

I asked him to chip in on ins and were good. He refused and kept wondering why they werent using him no more and using me.

I mean really? 

Now i guess he's sore thinking im stealing all the work.

The work i do is alot of OSHA job sites and 1mil ins is required for anyone who steps foot on a jobsite. 

And somehow im hearing from other brothers about out "friendship problem" even the WM tried to talk to me about it. I told him "thats personal and not lodge biz" guess the guy is crying in lodge trying to make me look bad.


Sent from Mossy Oak Swamp Bottom


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## Zack (Apr 2, 2016)

I wondered why I didn't see you last time I was there.
Please stay a member somewhere in the district.  A lot of lodges can use your ritual abilities.


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## Levelhead (Apr 2, 2016)

Zack said:


> I wondered why I didn't see you last time I was there.
> Please stay a member somewhere in the district.  A lot of lodges can use your ritual abilities.



Thx for the kind words. Makes me feel good.
I will. I have texted the brother and tried to reach out to him but have not gotten a response.

Ive always wondered why he got run out of his recent lodge and his prior lodge, then had to come back to his recent lodge once the people he pissed off have left  , but now i know why.


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## Warrior1256 (Apr 2, 2016)

I'm very sorry to hear of your troubles brother. Will say prayers that this is resolved in a good way.


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## Levelhead (Apr 2, 2016)

Im great full to just have brotherly support.


Sent from Mossy Oak Swamp Bottom


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## gshukha (Apr 2, 2016)

I think that you should see if you can fix things with him , if not just go to another lodge, if you love masonary dont just go 

Sent from my STV100-1 using My Freemasonry Pro mobile app


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## Levelhead (Apr 2, 2016)

I have reached out to him 3 times to meet up, he stood me up all 3 times. Then i texted him last night and still no response. He's a compulsive phone user and on fb nonstop so i know he got the message but wouldn't answer back because he was posting on FB.


Sent from Mossy Oak Swamp Bottom


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## coachn (Apr 2, 2016)

Levelhead said:


> I have reached out to him 3 times to meet up, he stood me up all 3 times. Then i texted him last night and still no response. He's a compulsive phone user and on fb nonstop so i know he got the message but wouldn't answer back because he was posting on FB.


Bro.!  Please stop seeking to reconcile with him.   You shall never find peace and satisfaction with this man based upon the game that is being played by him.

From what you wrote, you did him a favor and he didn't want to reciprocate professionally.  He didn't want to contribute his fare share to assure that he could continue working with you.  That reeks of obligation violation.

Furthermore, payment in cash means he doesn't want to have his income tracked.   The fact that he will work for "cash only" tells me that he is involved in an unethical and potentially illegal game financially and wants to usurp whatever rules that govern his financial situation.

You are doing things legally, morally and ethically and he expects you to not do this to have him involved.  He does not have the right to complain if you offered him an opportunity to work with you under specific conditions that prevent YOU from getting in trouble.

Brother.  Stop the game.  He is offering you a place in his *Drama Triangle* to control you and to obtain power over you and over all that will listen to his "story".  He is engaged in emotional blackmail and manipulation and that is not what friends or Brothers do to one another.

Don't give it to his game.  Accept that he doesn't see that he is not one the level with you, not being upright and is being immoral in his choices and expectations.  You deserve better and should demand it.

If all that you say is true, you have done NOTHING WRONG, other than allow yourself to feel unnecessary guilt over all this.


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## Bro Asad (Apr 2, 2016)

Don't leave Masonry based on the actions of one or even a few brothers. I've been in a situation where I feel the same way you do; Masonry is what you make it, right? Getting caught up in the intricacies of lodge/personal politics/issues will result in you losing sight of the "bigger picture". What I witnessed in lodge should be more than enough for me to denounce Freemasonry and never look back.. but I refuse to believe that the actions carried out by a few brothers ecompasses the character of the organization as a whole. Stay. Make uninformed brothers more aware of the tenents of Freemasonry, otherwise nothing will change for the better. As someone else suggested, you can always join another lodge. I've received more 'light' and love from jurisductions outside of my state than in my own mother lodge. Despite this I love all my brothers the same and decided to stick with my mother lodge in hopes that our situation gets better, and it will. As it will for you


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## CLewey44 (Apr 2, 2016)

Levelhead said:


> This is sad. I hate when theres something you love to do and are passionate about but it becomes not fun and stressful so you are forced to stop due to a situation.
> 
> Well im the JW in my lodge but me and the SW who at one time i considered my best friend had put a bad taste in my mouth to where i don't want to attend lodge and maybe either demit or just attend my other lodge more.
> 
> ...



If it makes you feel any better, I have learned from your mistake. I've considered doing business with guys from my lodge, particularly closer friends, and now I know that it's a big risk. I know it's cheesy, but money really is the root of all evil and can split people (family, spouses, friends) up quicker than anything. When we all meet in that house not made with hands, this money business won't mean a thing.  I also think you are seeing his true colors and better sooner than later. Maybe he was in it all along for the wrong reasons.


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## Levelhead (Apr 2, 2016)

Thank you and it seems like ive heard words that describe this person. One word ive heard and is the main word i use when speaking if this person is MANIPULATION.  This is the main word that i can use to describe him. 

He manipulates people to get info. 

Cant believe that from my story that word was seen. Thats 100% on point.


Sent from Mossy Oak Swamp Bottom


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## Bill Lins (Apr 3, 2016)

CLewey44 said:


> I also think you are seeing his true colors and better sooner than later. Maybe he was in it all along for the wrong reasons.


It sure sounds like that's the case. Coach Nagy said exactly what I was thinking, but in a much more concise & elegant manner.


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## darenjames (Apr 3, 2016)

coachn said:


> Bro.!  Please stop seeking to reconcile with him.   You shall never find peace and satisfaction with this man based upon the game that is being played by him.
> 
> From what you wrote, you did him a favor and he didn't want to reciprocate professionally.  He didn't want to contribute his fare share to assure that he could continue working with you.  That reeks of obligation violation.
> 
> ...





I have been here three times with the same person and just ignored the signs.  It became a point where my anger almost caused me to become violent.  But I took a step back and realized that I am in control of the situation.  Everything I do is a reflection of me and if a brother who clearly knows what he is doing , does not talk to me because of his own negativity then so be it .  Now I just slowly detached myself from the politics because I know my name has been tainted but as long as I am not fuelling the fire there is no fire.  I still go to meetings and still do my part but I just act like a proper mason 


Bro Daren James


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## Levelhead (Apr 3, 2016)

Thx! The crappy part is im the JW hed the SW. Im looking towards the east. But hell manipulate people to make sure i DO NOT go into the west next year. Thats just his style.

He's the kinda guy who if there was a new petition in. And the person he didn't like, he would make up stories and persuade people to vote against.

All with mental manipulation.

The guy is a fired cop so at one time he was a cop. But don't use leo style mind work on innocent people to get your way.


Sent from Mossy Oak Swamp Bottom


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## coachn (Apr 3, 2016)

Levelhead said:


> Thank you and it seems like ive heard words that describe this person. One word ive heard and is the main word i use when speaking if this person is MANIPULATION.  This is the main word that i can use to describe him.
> 
> He manipulates people to get info.
> 
> Cant believe that from my story that word was seen. Thats 100% on point.


Brother,

Because of my varied professions ( I wear 4 business hats), I have many opportunities to do business with Brothers; and I do just that -- _Business._ 

I now have engagement letters that establish what is required and expected in any business arrangement.  Very few Brothers dishonor me due to me:

1) being up front with what is expected to be engaged in and delivered from each of us; and
2) expecting them to do the same.​-- And doing all this IN WRITING!

When I am asked to participate in anything underhanded, no matter how slight, I say no deal and move on. 

It's an interesting experience to have a Brother spell out in writing what they expect from me.  Most will not spell out anything underhanded because they realize by writing it out, they are admitting that they are asking me to engage in something that is wrong _*to some degree*_ (yes, punned allusion intended!). 

I have many great business deals with my Brothers and I shall continue to do the same as long as I am still working. 

I've had a few dishonoring engagements that drove me to use an engagement letter for all opportunities.  These dishonoring Brothers are still in debt to me for what I provided to them.  The interesting thing is that these Brothers are so bogged down due to other accountabilities that they are trying to out run that they will likely go to their death never cleaning up the messes that they are making.  The sad aspect is many of them have no clue that they are engaging in life dishonorably. They have no clue that the obligation about wronging, cheating and defrauding covers not only material (physical, legal, moral or ethical) things, but intellectual, emotional, and spiritual things as well. 

Case in point, by asking you to engage as your Brother desires you to engage, _how would you be wronged, cheated or defrauded out of material (physical, legal, moral or ethical), intellectual, emotional, and spiritual values that you hold in high regard?  _As a business professional, I see quite a few things immediately and I hope that you do too.

I hope this question puts a different focus on your situation!

The engagement letters I currently have and employ have helped me minimize the influence of unethical and irresponsible Brothers and others on my life and I waste less time with these sorts than ever before.  I whole heartedly recommend that you do the same into the future.  

You have had a lot of lesson presented to you in this situation.  They were lessons only though.  If you wish to learn from them, your behavior must change in line with the lessons presented. 

You could avoid doing business with your good Brothers.  That behavior change might protect you from them but it won't protect you from the true problem that you caused by not have good business practices in place when it comes to working with anyone - known or unknown.

You can also do business with your good Brothers and others in a way that protects you and them from the situation at hand. 

You know what you should do to assure good business into the future.  Do it.


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## pointwithinacircle2 (Apr 3, 2016)

I find that Disinterested Compassion is a useful tool.  To me it means to care about, and offer assistance to, others without becoming caught up in the results of my actions.  In modern psycho-babble it is sometimes called setting boundaries.  Masonically it is the length of my cable-tow.  I have found that I harm myself and others when I become emotionally involved with the results of my charity.  This means of course that sometimes I must sometimes place my personal boundaries where others might not want them to be.  This especially true of those who wish to take advantage of me.


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## Levelhead (Apr 3, 2016)

Sad that a written agreement has to be made with a brother;(

I should of made a written agreement when i installed baseboards and trimmed out his whole house for free! Lol oh well i felt good helping out a brother for free. I never get a free ride ever.




Sent from Mossy Oak Swamp Bottom


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## coachn (Apr 3, 2016)

Levelhead said:


> Sad that a written agreement has to be made with a brother;(
> 
> I should of made a written agreement when i installed baseboards and trimmed out his whole house for free! Lol oh well i felt good helping out a brother for free. I never get a free ride ever.


Yup.  Sad is true.  However, there's a huge difference between rolling up your sleeves in fellowship and doing so in business affairs.


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## The Undertaker (Apr 3, 2016)

I am sorry to learn of this big issue, and at the same time, not surprised. What's worse is that we expect our Brethren to be on the level, as we have with them. However, please continue to contribute by your attendance, and knowledge, regardless of which lodge. I do not attend my lodge much any longer (and I'm a past master) for personal reasons, not as extreme as yours. But trust me, there are wonderful lodges that will genuinely want you. That said, I'm sadly disappointed when "these things happen" because we are Masons. These things aren't as likely to happen to Brothers . . . but they do. Which makes my resolve, and maybe yours, even more concrete. Lodges need us good men, period, as much (or more) than we need them. Keep that in mind, move forward doing good. Here endeth the lesson . . . .


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## Levelhead (Apr 3, 2016)

And on top of it me and me wife are in the OES , my wifes the marshall,and him and his wife are in the west. 

Cluster **** 


Sent from Mossy Oak Swamp Bottom


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## Bloke (Apr 3, 2016)

Levelhead said:


> Sad that a written agreement has to be made with a brother;(
> Sent from Mossy Oak Swamp Bottom



I disagree.

I've been in business with my father and brother by blood. I am currently in business with a brother.

In all these activities, we act professionally by documenting agreements in writing to allow mutual understanding and a record to refer back to. That's got nothing to do with 'honesty' but is indeed a bit to do with mistrusting the human ability to clearly recall snd/or interpret what was agreed. Clearly writing it all down and all approving that record, whether in the form of a contract or minutes, gives us all a record of what was agreed.

I am currently employed by two groups of building owners comprised of Freemasons, again documented by exchange of letter forming a contract.

This has always been incredibly useful to look back in months and years passed to make sure we are all meeting our obligations.

Recording agreements in writting is busineess 101.

As an aside, if we dont need such mechanisms - why do lodges keep minutes ? We keep them so we have mutually accepted record of events and agreements and a way to communicate them for future reference


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## Dontrell Stroman (Apr 4, 2016)

Sorry to hear that brother. Your right, it is a shame. You should be able to do business with a brother mason and not worry about issues like your having. Like I was told from a brother awhile ago, freemasonry is brothers taking care of brothers.

Sent from my 831C using My Freemasonry Pro mobile app


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## Levelhead (Apr 4, 2016)

Ive realized there are Masons and there are Brothers.


Sent from Mossy Oak Swamp Bottom


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## Dontrell Stroman (Apr 4, 2016)

Levelhead said:


> Ive realized there are Masons and there are Brothers.
> 
> 
> Sent from Mossy Oak Swamp Bottom


Well said brother.


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## David Carroll jr (Apr 5, 2016)

coachn said:


> Bro.!  Please stop seeking to reconcile with him.   You shall never find peace and satisfaction with this man based upon the game that is being played by him.
> 
> From what you wrote, you did him a favor and he didn't want to reciprocate professionally.  He didn't want to contribute his fare share to assure that he could continue working with you.  That reeks of obligation violation.
> 
> ...


Damn Straight!


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## David Carroll jr (Apr 5, 2016)

Speaking from experience. If you have an option extricate yourself from that situation post haste. Like Coach said, He has drawn you into his Drama Triangle and you need to get away for your own mental well being. 

I had a similar situation in my Mother Lodge. It got to the point where I hated going so I demitted, joined another lodge and regained my love for the Craft. This is up to you now.


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## Warrior1256 (Apr 5, 2016)

Levelhead said:


> Ive realized there are Masons and there are Brothers.
> 
> 
> Sent from Mossy Oak Swamp Bottom


Excellent point.


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## Zack (Apr 5, 2016)

Levelhead said:


> Ive realized there are Masons and there are Brothers.
> 
> 
> Sent from Mossy Oak Swamp Bottom



A wise old PM once told me..."not all good men are Masons and not all Masons are good men".


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## Derinique Kendrick (Apr 5, 2016)

Levelhead said:


> Ive realized there are Masons and there are Brothers.
> 
> 
> Sent from Mossy Oak Swamp Bottom


Sad you have to look at it that way, but it is definitely the truth


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## Derinique Kendrick (Apr 5, 2016)

Zack said:


> A wise old PM once told me..."not all good men are Masons and not all Masons are good men".


Ohhhh yes! I too have come across some "brothers" whom I wish had never made it past the west gate, heck, the ballot box for that matter!


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## Warrior1256 (Apr 5, 2016)

Derinique Kendrick said:


> Ohhhh yes! I too have come across some "brothers" whom I wish had never made it past the west gate, heck, the ballot box for that matter!


So true!


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## MRichard (Apr 5, 2016)

Derinique Kendrick said:


> Ohhhh yes! I too have come across some "brothers" whom I wish had never made it past the west gate, heck, the ballot box for that matter!



I think everybody has met that brother. Unfortunately, it is not just a small number of them.


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## acjohnson53 (Apr 5, 2016)

Bro I'm sorry to the solution is always there read about your short comings, But always remember to "Look to the East" the solution is always there. tighten up on his cable tow to find out the problem, and then fix it from there


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## Levelhead (Apr 5, 2016)

I plan on staying in this lodge because he runs people off whom he fears. Not me. Not falling for his trap. 


Sent from Mossy Oak Swamp Bottom


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## Derinique Kendrick (Apr 6, 2016)

MRichard said:


> I think everybody has met that brother. Unfortunately, it is not just a small number of them.


Precisely!


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## Derinique Kendrick (Apr 6, 2016)

Levelhead said:


> I plan on staying in this lodge because he runs people off whom he fears. Not me. Not falling for his trap.
> 
> 
> Sent from Mossy Oak Swamp Bottom


Good Call!


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## Warrior1256 (Apr 6, 2016)

Levelhead said:


> I plan on staying in this lodge because he runs people off whom he fears. Not me. Not falling for his trap.
> 
> 
> Sent from Mossy Oak Swamp Bottom


Love it!


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## JMartinez (Apr 6, 2016)

Brother I feel 100% the same way. For five years I've shown up to lodge every week. I loved freemasonry at one time. Now I'm burnt out, tired, annoyed, frustrated, stressed, and feel demoralized. I recently stop attending lodge. And to be honest it's extremely hard to go back. I now see what all the hype is about leaving and never coming back. But the thing is my brother... It's negative hype. I am SW. Out of frustration I said I wouldn't continue next year. I am afraid to return to lodge for fear of being shunned by those who were once my brothers take my advise brother. Take some time away from lodge, let them know in advance that you're taking some time off. But don't stay away too long my brother. I'll pray for you and your friend. Please pray for me. I miss my lodge and brethren. Even the ones I can't stand


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## Bill Lins (Apr 7, 2016)

Bro. Martinez,  
There are quite a few Lodges in your area. Rather than just stay home, why not visit some of those other Lodges & see if you can find what is lacking in your home Lodge? Every Lodge has a different "vibe"- you just might find one that's a better fit for you. In the meantime, we'll be praying for you.


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## coachn (Apr 7, 2016)

JMartinez said:


> ... I recently stop attending lodge. ... I am SW. ...


How can you be the SW and not show up?


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## Levelhead (Apr 7, 2016)

coachn said:


> How can you be the JW and not show up?


He said hes the SW!


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## coachn (Apr 7, 2016)

Levelhead said:


> He said hes the SW!


Oops!  Fixed. Thanks.


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## JMartinez (Apr 7, 2016)

I have been a lodge officer since my first year of being a MM. I always saw myself as a spectator and participant. Never an officer. I was put through the chairs in hopes my feelings would change by now. But I feel now that "I've been in the back, and have seen how the sausage is made". I don't have the stomach to be WM. I've been a MM since I was 18, I am now 22 and SW. I feel like I joined too young. In my heart I feel the lodge line up is an older mans game.


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## Derinique Kendrick (Apr 7, 2016)

JMartinez said:


> I've been a MM since I was 18, I am now 22 and SW. I feel like I joined too young. In my heart I feel the lodge line up is an older mans game.


I humbly disagree brother. I am 25 and a JW and like you have been an officer since my first year (Raised and elected at 24, 2016 is first FULL year in craft). I don't feel like you joined too young. I give you that it may seem to be an "old mans game", but we, as younger brother, are the future of the lodge and in my opinion that is just as important as the older members because we have a legacy to carry on. Just my two cents. I also hope your mind changes about lodge. I would hate the lodge to lose a good brother such as yourself (you wouldn't have been elected SW if they thought you weren't a good brother). It does indeed get discouraging and frustrating, but we have to stick it out and ultimately be the change we want to see. The changes you may want to see are most definitely not going to happen if you aren't there to see to it that they do start to happen. Best of wishes, brother!


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## MRichard (Apr 7, 2016)

JMartinez said:


> I have been a lodge officer since my first year of being a MM. I always saw myself as a spectator and participant. Never an officer. I was put through the chairs in hopes my feelings would change by now. But I feel now that "I've been in the back, and have seen how the sausage is made". I don't have the stomach to be WM. I've been a MM since I was 18, I am now 22 and SW. I feel like I joined too young. In my heart I feel the lodge line up is an older mans game.



Since you are still young, you can go through the line again later when you are ready. Might give you a different perspective. Not everyone desires to go through the line.


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## Derinique Kendrick (Apr 7, 2016)

MRichard said:


> Since you are still young, you can go through the line again later when you are ready. Might give you a different perspective. Not everyone desires to go through the line.


This is very true. I see it in Lodge now. Guys who have sat in the South and West, but will not take on the East.


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## dfreybur (Apr 7, 2016)

JMartinez said:


> In my heart I feel the lodge line up is an older mans game.



Going through the line is like compressing an entire career into 7 years.  From corporate go-fer to small company president as the chairs process.  That is much more beneficial to a man still young in hos career to learn the lessons at lodge and apply them to work.  That is less beneficial to a man long progressed in his career who learned the lessons at work and applies them at lodge.


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## acjohnson53 (Apr 7, 2016)

He figures if he runs everybody off, he could get to the east must faster.../G\


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## acjohnson53 (Apr 7, 2016)

When is your next election????


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## Bloke (Apr 7, 2016)

JMartinez said:


> I have been a lodge officer since my first year of being a MM. I always saw myself as a spectator and participant. Never an officer. I was put through the chairs in hopes my feelings would change by now. But I feel now that "I've been in the back, and have seen how the sausage is made". I don't have the stomach to be WM. I've been a MM since I was 18, I am now 22 and SW. I feel like I joined too young. In my heart I feel the lodge line up is an older mans game.



That's something to reflect on brother,a PM in my lodge went through the chair in his early 20's (pressured by his dad) and he says he was ill-equipped and too young. but I've seen other guys go through of the same age and do an outstanding job. One thing I know  - every capable WME I've seen has been excited , but in the weeks before got scared and the jitters..

The chair is certainly a mature man's game, but that is not the same as an "old" man's game. I've been through the East three times, and every term has taught me valuable lessons.

I love Freemasonry. It's my hope all my members make a contribution - the thing to decide is how you will make yours in a way which is best for you, and best for Freemasonry....


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## Bill Lins (Apr 7, 2016)

acjohnson53 said:


> When is your next election????


It will be June 21st.


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## Derinique Kendrick (Apr 8, 2016)

acjohnson53 said:


> He figures if he runs everybody off, he could get to the east must faster.../G\


No point in being in the East alone if you run everyone off.


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## Warrior1256 (Apr 8, 2016)

Derinique Kendrick said:


> but we, as younger brother, are the future of the lodge and in my opinion that is just as important as the older members because we have a legacy to carry on.


Exactly, very well said brother!


MRichard said:


> Since you are still young, you can go through the line again later when you are ready.


True.


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## Levelhead (Apr 8, 2016)

acjohnson53 said:


> When is your next election????


Well in florida its just nominations, to real voting or election.


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## Levelhead (Apr 8, 2016)

acjohnson53 said:


> He figures if he runs everybody off, he could get to the east must faster.../G\


100% true


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## Levelhead (Apr 8, 2016)

Another fun fact or history facts.

This brother was at one time in the past a member of the lodge were in together now, but he got suspended and somehow had major problems with brothers so he joined my "other" lodge.

He got pretty much got the boot there too.

Then after the people he pissed off in the first lodge had blackballed his re petition he had to plan the vote on a day when those brothers were not there.

Well he got lucky and got voted back in.

Same thing happened in the OES chapter. Waited until the people weren't there then got voted in.

Crazy but it happened.

Now hes campaigning to get everyone to not like the brothers who didnt like him so they cant come back to shine the light on the crap he was accused of in the first place!  

Also since hes been the SW the attendance has been the worse i have ever seen it.


Sent from Mossy Oak Swamp Bottom


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## MRichard (Apr 9, 2016)

Levelhead said:


> Then after the people he pissed off in the first lodge had blackballed his re petition he had to plan the vote on a day when those brothers were not there.
> 
> Well he got lucky and got voted back in.



I don't see how it is possible that he could have planned to have a vote when certain brothers were not there when he wasn't even a member of the lodge.


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## Levelhead (Apr 9, 2016)

He was a member but got booted. He just knew people there. 


Sent from Mossy Oak Swamp Bottom


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## Bloke (Apr 9, 2016)

Levelhead said:


> He was a member but got booted. He just knew people there.



Here, according to the Constitution, a joining member vote must be on the summons. If that was not done but is required, the validity of the vote might be questionable, but if the subsequent minutes were passed, that would probably the weaken any protest.... but I am not sure I would want to go down that route but would follow the old adage "give a man enough rope and he will hang himself" but I am not sure it's really masonic behaviour to do that.... but it will probably turn out to be true...


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## Levelhead (Apr 14, 2016)

Well being a good Mason I tried to subdue my passions. Last night I was at a volunteer function and this said brother was there. I walked up to him and said hey brother can we just take 10 minutes to step aside and speak real quick. I can't believe this brother had the nerve after all I've done for him to say "what's been said is said and what's been done is done I have nothing further to say to you I do not want to talk to you" wow I was surprised to hear that being that i have done so much for this brother financially and helped him out a lot. I just looked at him and said well I'm not going anywhere I am staying in this lodge so you're going to have to deal with it.

Sucks. Because he is the senior warden and I am the Junior Warden so I guess he will try to block me from moving any further oh well I guess I have to deal with it.


Sent from Mossy Oak Swamp Bottom


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## Zack (Apr 14, 2016)

Levelhead said:


> Sucks. Because he is the senior warden and I am the Junior Warden so I guess he will try to block me from moving any further oh well I guess I have to deal with it.
> 
> 
> Sent from Mossy Oak Swamp Bottom



My Brother,
do your job as your ability permits, as I have no doubts that you will.  There are some wise Brothers in that lodge who can read between the lines.  Nothing is sure about his being elected next year.  Who knows...it could be you that advances to the East.  One small piece  of unasked for advice....don't do or say anything you  wished you hadn't done or said.

If you need to vent, you have my #.


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## Levelhead (Apr 14, 2016)

Thx brother. Id like to meet for dinner one day! Thank you for your kind words and eastward direction. 


Sent from Mossy Oak Swamp Bottom


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## Ripcord22A (Apr 18, 2016)

Levelhead said:


> Sucks. Because he is the senior warden and I am the Junior Warden so I guess he will try to block me from moving any further oh well I guess I have to deal with it.


 
Why dont you bring this to the WM and ask for meeting between you, the WM, the brother in question, and the SD(as he will probably be the JW next year)  and get this all handled.  There could possibly be grounds for masonic charges or even small claims court.....


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## Levelhead (Apr 18, 2016)

If a person does not want to speak to you in general, the WM really cant do nothing. 

And i REFUSE to beg for peace and friendship.  Gave too much to try to mend this. 


Sent from Mossy Oak Swamp Bottom


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## Levelhead (Apr 18, 2016)

Well when im the Jw and hes the sw its hard.


Sent from Mossy Oak Swamp Bottom


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## pointwithinacircle2 (Apr 18, 2016)

It is hard to realize that you are the better man, and therefore it falls to you to do the right thing, because the other man is too weak, and then you have to love him anyway.   I guess nobody said that becoming a better man was easy.


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## Levelhead (Apr 18, 2016)

I know its a setup for destruction and high rage feelings that can only get worse.


Sent from Mossy Oak Swamp Bottom


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## Bloke (Apr 18, 2016)

pointwithinacircle2 said:


> It is hard to realize that you are the better man, and therefore it falls to you to do the right thing, because the other man is too weak, and then you have to love him anyway.   I guess nobody said that becoming a better man was easy.



Yes, as I often say, this sort of situation is an opportunity for you to shine...


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## Levelhead (Apr 18, 2016)

How so?


Sent from Mossy Oak Swamp Bottom


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## Bloke (Apr 18, 2016)

In a difficult situation you have three choices
1 Be the man you are
2 Be a lesser man than you are
3 Be a better man than you are

Number 3 takes work and conscious choice and is still a better option than 1 even if you're a top bloke


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## Brother_Steve (Apr 19, 2016)

Levelhead said:


> Well in respect i would not tell the story because its unfair to a person who is not here to defend themselves.
> 
> Pretty much in a vague nuttshell..
> 
> ...


Laws require a copy of workman's comp, insurance policy and tax ID of every person on-site. That is out of your hands. You're cable toe can not be extended to where you put yourself in jeopardy with the law. If your "Brother" cannot understand that, then you may have to do what you see fit to keep your sanity.

You are in an elected office. The elections for next year will cause disharmony in the Lodge if he creates a line in the sand by having two nominations for SW. You and whomever he wants to replace you with, if he stoops that low.

You can keep your ear to the ground and nominate yourself and run for WM as well.

Are you stooping to his level? Maybe, but why should you be the one to relent? Life isn't about bowing out _all_ the time. Sometimes you have to fight for what is right. He doesn't deserve to lead the Lodge if what you say is true.

If you decide to run against him in the coming year, just do it right so you do not violate any masonic laws concerning electioneering.


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## Levelhead (Apr 19, 2016)

If i ran for WM and won, he manipulate all the army he's recruited against me to either not be active or move lodges. Thats how he rolls.


Sent from Mossy Oak Swamp Bottom


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## coachn (Apr 19, 2016)

Levelhead said:


> If i ran for WM and won, he manipulate all the army he's recruited against me to either not be active or move lodges. Thats how he rolls.
> 
> 
> Sent from Mossy Oak Swamp Bottom


Forgive the 2x4 approach here Bro., but the problem at this point is not him; it's you. 

If you're in a hostile unsupportive environment, leave.  You are holding yourself hostage to "your place in line". 

As long as you choose to stay put, you have no right to complain about what you have chosen to be a part of.    

Complaining in any direction that will make any difference whatsoever is whining and counterproductive.

You're the solution.  Apply it.


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## Levelhead (Apr 19, 2016)

I understand. I just to be there in harmony with myself. If im not in harmony with myself its hard to with others. 


Sent from Mossy Oak Swamp Bottom


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## pointwithinacircle2 (Apr 19, 2016)

coachn said:


> You're the solution.  Apply it.


I once went to a self-awareness/experiential learning seminar that lasted for eleven days spread out over four weeks.  The self examination was intense.  If you answered "I don't know" the reply would be "What would the answer be if you did know?"   I always knew the answer to THAT question, I just usually didn't want to admit it.

Sometimes when I feel stuck I still ask myself "What would the answer be if you did know?"


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## coachn (Apr 19, 2016)

pointwithinacircle2 said:


> I once went to a self-awareness/experiential learning seminar that lasted for eleven days spread out over four weeks.  The self examination was intense.  If you answered "I don't know" the reply would be "What would the answer be if you did know?"   I always knew the answer to THAT question, I just usually didn't want to admit it.
> 
> Sometimes when I feel stuck I still ask myself "What would the answer be if you did know?"


And most of the time we already know the answer and don't like it.


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## dfreybur (Apr 20, 2016)

JamestheJust said:


> Are we not obliged to withdraw from the lodge room if there is a brother with whom we are at variance?
> 
> This rule is not arbitrary.  It is because the Blessings from On High only enter where there is harmony.



What I was taught is we are to emulate as best we can work and agreement.

It did not say work on what so I took it as work on myself.  If a Brother wanted to use me as a tool that amounted to tax evasion I'd blow him off on that, very explicitly in private, and act like he'd never tried that, in public.  Praise in public, chastise in private.

It did not say agree on what so I took it as agree that we are all working on the principles.  The goal is to be better this year than you were last year, not to be better than him.  The goal is to be holier this year than you were last year, not holier than him.

If possible let it wash over you and pass you like water off a duck's back.  Or to the extent it's possible do that.

This too shall pass - One day you'll be PM and it'll all be a lesson to teach others.  Maybe that will have to be in some other lodge.


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## pointwithinacircle2 (Apr 21, 2016)

JamestheJust said:


> I was taught that a Freemason's lodge extends from E to W and N to S and from the center of the Earth to the Heavens, and I doubt that faking it fools the brethren in the temple in the heavens.


I find that the only person I am usually fooling is myself.  My capacity to fool myself appears to be limitless.  In order to protect me from myself I have adopted certain principles.  There are two principles that I find most useful.  

The first is to assume that everything is my fault.  This allows me to see past the defenses I build to protect myself.  let's face it, if I am in a bad situation I have done SOMETHING to get me there.  Unless I can find and face that something I have little chance of dealing with the situation appropriately.  

The second way I protect myself is to be ruthlessly honest about my faults.  Even if I believe that I am only one percent at fault I try to focus ONLY on that one percent.  The reason is that MY faults are the only thing that I can change.  If I want things to be different I will have to change me.  Ever hear the saying "You can't cheat an honest man"?  Well, "You can't manipulate an honest man".  If I have no secrets, no secret guilt or desire, then I have no buttons that you can push to manipulate me.  And yes, sometimes I walk away from things I really want because I am not willing to compromise myself to get them.  

If remember right, the first of Buddha's four noble truths is "Life is Difficult".  The other three seem to be about how to deal with the first.


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## dfreybur (Apr 21, 2016)

JamestheJust said:


> Fake it until you make it?



I was thinking in terms of figuring out how to blow off those who irk me, to ignore those who attempt to engage me in illegal activities like tax evasion, to be not bothered by the chattering of others by listening to the quite inside of me.


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## Levelhead (Apr 22, 2016)

Went to lodge and for the first time in a month. i got all my "words" perfect!! Chuckled under my breath (quietly) hearing "his" mess ups.

Felt good to go back and do my part!


Sent from Mossy Oak Swamp Bottom


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## Bloke (Jun 19, 2016)

Still going ?


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## Levelhead (Jun 19, 2016)

Yes i dont mis a meeting. I do the job that i promised at installation. Its hard dealing with this problem but im worrying about myself! 


Sent from Mossy Oak Swamp Bottom


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## BullDozer Harrell (Jun 25, 2016)

Levelhead said:


> If a person does not want to speak to you in general, the WM really cant do nothing.
> 
> And i REFUSE to beg for peace and friendship.  Gave too much to try to mend this.
> 
> ...


Not so true. The WM has the perogative to order a sitdown between you& this brother to find out what's really going on especially if it's causing disharmony in his lodge.

Sent from my SM-N910P using My Freemasonry Pro mobile app


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## BullDozer Harrell (Jun 25, 2016)

The PM council members should never allow this beef to grow worse in the following election year. 
If you two can't reach an agreement about how to act professionally as the 2 top lodge officers then neither he should be WM nor you SW.
I hope the Past Masters are looking at this sad situation.

Sent from my SM-N910P using My Freemasonry Pro mobile app


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## Levelhead (Jun 25, 2016)

Ive tried. Im done begging.


Sent from Mossy Oak Swamp Bottom


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## acjohnson53 (Jun 27, 2016)




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## Warrior1256 (Jun 27, 2016)

Used the above as a screen saver, hope you don't mind.


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## Glen Cook (Jun 27, 2016)

BullDozer Harrell said:


> Not so true. The WM has the perogative to order a sitdown between you& this brother to find out what's really going on especially if it's causing disharmony in his lodge.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910P using My Freemasonry Pro mobile app


Not in my jurisdictions


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## Glen Cook (Jun 27, 2016)

BullDozer Harrell said:


> The PM council members should never allow this beef to grow worse in the following election year.
> If you two can't reach an agreement about how to act professionally as the 2 top lodge officers then neither he should be WM nor you SW.
> I hope the Past Masters are looking at this sad situation.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910P using My Freemasonry Pro mobile app


Not all jurisdictions have such a council, though I agree with the result you suggest.


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## Levelhead (Jun 27, 2016)

So i had sent a "heres a problem , can i have advice, FOR YOUR EYES ONLY, " email to the grand secretary. 

And i guess he didnt read the part that said "please keep this to yourself and let me know what you think needs to be done and who needs to see this BEFORE you forward it to anyone so i can see what the outcome of it would be. " 

Well it went to the MWGM and i got a call from my DDGM tonight. Oh well ummm ill see where this goes.  


Sent from Mossy Oak Swamp Bottom


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## Glen Cook (Jun 27, 2016)

Levelhead said:


> So i had sent a "heres a problem , can i have advice, FOR YOUR EYES ONLY, " email to the grand secretary.
> 
> And i guess he didnt read the part that said "please keep this to yourself and let me know what you think needs to be done and who needs to see this BEFORE you forward it to anyone so i can see what the outcome of it would be. "
> 
> ...


And the GSec acted appropriately. He answers to the GM. 

This may be a good thing. It doesn't appear the situation can get worse between the two of you.  What's the worst that can happen?  He really, really, doesn't like you? 

Remember, Freemasonry doesn't put bread in the table or make our wives and children love us more. At the end of the day, there is little harm that can come to us because we do, or do not, have success in the fraternity


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## acjohnson53 (Jun 28, 2016)

Bro if I find it, use it....


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## acjohnson53 (Jun 28, 2016)

Bro don't let no one steal your passion. We Master Mason Builders of King Solomon's Temple....Even the ruffians couldn't stop us....


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## Warrior1256 (Jun 28, 2016)

Levelhead said:


> So i had sent a "heres a problem , can i have advice, FOR YOUR EYES ONLY, " email to the grand secretary.
> 
> And i guess he didnt read the part that said "please keep this to yourself and let me know what you think needs to be done and who needs to see this BEFORE you forward it to anyone so i can see what the outcome of it would be. "
> 
> ...


I surely do hope that everything works out well for all concerned Brother.


Glen Cook said:


> And the GSec acted appropriately. He answers to the GM.
> 
> This may be a good thing. It doesn't appear the situation can get worse between the two of you.  What's the worst that can happen?  He really, really, doesn't like you?
> 
> Remember, Freemasonry doesn't put bread in the table or make our wives and children love us more. At the end of the day, there is little harm that can come to us because we do, or do not, have success in the fraternity


Very true.


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