# YR equivalent of 33rd degree



## Ripcord22A (Aug 16, 2016)

can someone tell me what the highest rank in the YR is?  What I mean is that in order to be a member of the AASR supreme council you must be a 33rd degree, in order to be member of the Grand Encampment KT and Chapter and Council equivalent what rank must you hold?


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## chrmc (Aug 16, 2016)

jdmadsenCraterlake211 said:


> can someone tell me what the highest rank in the YR is?  What I mean is that in order to be a member of the AASR supreme council you must be a 33rd degree, in order to be member of the Grand Encampment KT and Chapter and Council equivalent what rank must you hold?



You are trying to compare two organizations that are not the same, so as such there isn't an equivalent. If you look at the 33rd degree as an honorary degree due to long service, then we can start comparing.

I'm not a York Rite expert, but believe that in order to become member of the Grand Encampment etc. you just simply have to run for it. Just like you would for your Grand Lodge line. And remember that the Grand Encampment doesn't control the Chapter and Council. They are separate organizations.


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## chrmc (Aug 16, 2016)

A very quick Google search brought up their statues which states
http://www.knightstemplar.org/csd.pdf

OFFICERS Section 19. The Officers of the Grand Encampment shall be: A Grand Master, A Deputy Grand Master, A Grand Generalissimo, A Grand Captain General, A Department Commander for each department into which Grand Commanderies and Subordinate Commanderies may be grouped, A Grand Senior Warden, A Grand Junior Warden, A Grand Prelate, A Grand Treasurer, A Grand Recorder, A Grand Standard Bearer, A Grand Sword Bearer, A Grand Warder, A Grand Captain of the Guard, 

The first four of whom and the Grand Treasurer and the Grand Recorder shall be elected and installed. 

The Department Commanders and a Grand Prelate shall be appointed by the Grand Master and shall be installed. The remaining officers shall be appointed by the Grand Master and shall not be installed. (1964, p. 6 & 334 - 338)


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## Brother JC (Aug 17, 2016)

Scottish Rite is an actual rite and a single entity overseen by its leadership. York Rite is an amalgamation of three groups with three grand bodies that have no power over the other bodies.
Apples and pomegranates, my friend.


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## Ripcord22A (Aug 17, 2016)

Brother JC said:


> Scottish Rite is an actual rite and a single entity overseen by its leadership. York Rite is an amalgamation of three groups with three grand bodies that have no power over the other bodies.
> Apples and pomegranates, my friend.


I understand that brother.
, I understand that you can stop when ever you want but cant start wherever you want.   my thought process was that since you have to go through council and chapter first that KT must be considered higher, I was wondering if there is a rank or decoration within any of the 3 national bodies that is equal to a 33rd in stature if not actually equal to....


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## chrmc (Aug 17, 2016)

jdmadsenCraterlake211 said:


> I understand that brother.
> , I understand that you can stop when ever you want but cant start wherever you want.   my thought process was that since you have to go through council and chapter first that KT must be considered higher, I was wondering if there is a rank or decoration within any of the 3 national bodies that is equal to a 33rd in stature if not actually equal to....



The issue is that your question isn't really clear. Initially you ask if there is a rank one must hold in order to be a member of the Grand Encampment. Which there clearly isn't as those positions are elected. We can start talking about qualifications that you most likely must have, but not a rank. 

If you look at the 33rd degree being a honorary degree and comparing that to marks of distinction in the YR then it's not really the same either. The KT doesn't have an honorary rank (as far as I know), but there are a number of appendant bodies you can/may be invited to based on merit. 
KT itself has as number of honors http://www.knightstemplar.org/KnightTemplar/articles/20140828.htm that can be awarded, but I compare them more to the Grand Cross within the SR, not really the 33rd degree. 

Again it is two very different organizations that aren't really comparable. But to answer your direct question. No, there isn't a rank or decoration that is similar to 33rd.


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## Ripcord22A (Aug 17, 2016)

chrmc said:


> The issue is that your question isn't really clear. Initially you ask if there is a rank one must hold in order to be a member of the Grand Encampment. Which there clearly isn't as those positions are elected. We can start talking about qualifications that you most likely must have, but not a rank..



I apologize for this, the reason my original question was worded that way is because I assumed that there was.



chrmc said:


> If you look at the 33rd degree being a honorary degree and comparing that to marks of distinction in the YR then it's not really the same either. The KT doesn't have an honorary rank (as far as I know), but there are a number of appendant bodies you can/may be invited to based on merit.
> KT itself has as number of honors http://www.knightstemplar.org/KnightTemplar/articles/20140828.htm that can be awarded, but I compare them more to the Grand Cross within the SR, not really the 33rd degree.



See and with the Grand Cross you have to be a 33rd to get that, this is where my confusion came from.  I assumed that like the SR you had to hit certain prereqs to either hold office or receive certain awards.  Having done more research I realize that is not true and that the YR seems to be about who ya know as much as what you've done.  I noticed within the AMD any brother can be recommended for almost all of their "awards and honors"



chrmc said:


> Again it is two very different organizations that aren't really comparable. But to answer your direct question. No, there isn't a rank or decoration that is similar to 33rd.


  Thank you!

I came up with this question when preparing a presentation for my lodge on lesser known masonic bodies and was preparing my notes on the Swedish Rite and their 10th deg being equivalent to the 32nd and if you were a 32 you could visit a lodge that was opening in the 10th there and that their 11th degree being equivalent to the 33rd and I was trying to see if there was an equivalent to the YR.  I figured that the easiest was was to find out of there was 33rd to YR equivalent.


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## SimonM (Aug 17, 2016)

jdmadsenCraterlake211 said:


> I apologize for this, the reason my original question was worded that way is because I assumed that there was.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If you have your presentation written down and would like to share it I would be very interested in reading it. I have found that other views highligts portions that I take for granted and dont reflect on. 


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## chrmc (Aug 17, 2016)

If you're highlighting honors within the York Rite I'd focus on the KYCH. It's mainly earned by merit, but think it'll be one of the ones you see around and which does require a considerable body of work. 
http://www.yorkrite.com/kych/info.html



jdmadsenCraterlake211 said:


> Swedish Rite and their 10th deg being equivalent to the 32nd and if you were a 32 you could visit a lodge that was opening in the 10th there and that their 11th degree being equivalent to the 33rd



Just a small correction there. X degree in the Swedish Rite isn't really the same as the 32nd degree. If you're a 32nd degree you can visit up to VIII degree in the Swedish Rite. And if you're a X degree in the Swedish Rite you can visit up to 33rd. Check your Scottish Rite monitor. They have a nifty little conversion chart. Around page 143-148 or so if I remember correctly.


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## Ripcord22A (Aug 17, 2016)

I just took notes off of Wikipedia and the stuff I believe it was you told me several month back.  I was really surprised at just how hard it was to find info relating to ritual and lodge room set up and what not for these lesser known degrees and bodies.  the blue lodge ritual here in the sates is readily available on line.  it may not be exactly what is used today or by your GL but you can find the grips and words and dugards and penal signs all over the net...I couldnt find crap on these other degrees


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## Winter (Aug 17, 2016)

Perhaps look into a membership in the Grand College of Rites. They maintain most all of the thousands of Masonic degrees. Even the clandestine ones.  

Transmitted via my R5 astromech.


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## SimonM (Aug 17, 2016)

chrmc said:


> Just a small correction there. X degree in the Swedish Rite isn't really the same as the 32nd degree. If you're a 32nd degree you can visit up to VIII degree in the Swedish Rite. And if you're a X degree in the Swedish Rite you can visit up to 33rd. Check your Scottish Rite monitor. They have a nifty little conversion chart. Around page 143-148 or so if I remember correctly.


The conversion table is different for different jurisdictions, some have that a X can visit a 33rd, others limit X to 32nd.


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## Ripcord22A (Aug 17, 2016)

Winter said:


> Perhaps look into a membership in the Grand College of Rites. They maintain most all of the thousands of Masonic degrees. Even the clandestine ones.
> 
> Transmitted via my R5 astromech.


I plan on it after my next military move


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## chrmc (Aug 17, 2016)

SimonM said:


> The conversion table is different for different jurisdictions, some have that a X can visit a 33rd, others limit X to 32nd.



Aye. Conversion charts are never uniform it would seem. On the 33rd degree specifically I think the lot of confusion will be around the fact that nothing ever meets in the 33rd degree (as far as I know). It's an honorary degree that is bestowed upon people, but it's not like there's a 33rd degree lodge being opened regularly - except of course if you read Dan Brown, but in that case I'm not sure they'll let you in. 

I've always though that the most interesting debate regarding conversions and intervisitations comes when you look at invitational orders. So a VII degree would be able to visit the CBCS or the SRCIF for instance if you just look at it. But would these orders let them in?


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## SimonM (Aug 17, 2016)

chrmc said:


> I've always though that the most interesting debate regarding conversions and intervisitations comes when you look at invitational orders. So a VII degree would be able to visit the CBCS or the SRCIF for instance if you just look at it. But would these orders let them in?


 The Grand Priory of Helvetia have 3 degrees

4. Maitre Ecossais de Saint André -
5. Ecuyer-Novice
6. Chevalier Bienfaisant de la Cité Sainte

For the 4th you need at least VI,
5th at least VII
6th at least VIII




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## Brother JC (Aug 17, 2016)

JD, the York requirements you mentioned aren't even standard. Some jurisdictions only require Chapter before Commandery; Council is often the bastard step-child. It is (imltho) one of the downfalls of the American Amalgamation. I would have preferred completely separate bodies, personally.


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## Ripcord22A (Aug 17, 2016)

chrmc said:


> It's an honorary degree that is bestowed upon people, but it's not like there's a 33rd degree lodge being opened regularly


Well I guess that the part of the biennial session when the 33rd and KCCH are bestowed would count as this as only KCCHs and 33rds are allowed


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## chrmc (Aug 17, 2016)

SimonM said:


> The Grand Priory of Helvetia have 3 degrees
> 
> 4. Maitre Ecossais de Saint André -
> 5. Ecuyer-Novice
> ...



Exactly. You should be able to visit. However the CBCS in the US is one of the hardest organizations to get into, and I'm not sure they'd let you into the meeting even though you technically qualify. Think that if you didn't know the right people you wouldn't get through the door...


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## Ripcord22A (Aug 17, 2016)

chrmc said:


> Exactly. You should be able to visit. However the CBCS in the US is one of the hardest organizations to get into, and I'm not sure they'd let you into the meeting even though you technically qualify. Think that if you didn't know the right people you wouldn't get through the door...


@Glen Cook maybe you can shed some light on this Brother?


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## Warrior1256 (Aug 18, 2016)

I'm an officer in both Chapter and Council as well as being a Knight Templar but, for various reasons as well as those already stated, I doubt that this question can ever be answered satisfactorily..


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## Glen Cook (Aug 18, 2016)

chrmc said:


> Aye. Conversion charts are never uniform it would seem. On the 33rd degree specifically I think the lot of confusion will be around the fact that nothing ever meets in the 33rd degree (as far as I know). It's an honorary degree that is bestowed upon people, but it's not like there's a 33rd degree lodge being opened regularly - except of course if you read Dan Brown, but in that case I'm not sure they'll let you in.
> 
> I've always though that the most interesting debate regarding conversions and intervisitations comes when you look at invitational orders. So a VII degree would be able to visit the CBCS or the SRCIF for instance if you just look at it. But would these orders let them in?


Well, not exactly. Supreme Council meets on the 33.  We open on the 33 to confer the degree.  It is a substantive degree.


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## Ripcord22A (Aug 18, 2016)

Are you on the SC brother?

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## Glen Cook (Aug 18, 2016)

jdmadsenCraterlake211 said:


> Are you on the SC brother?
> 
> Sent from my LG-H811 using My Freemasonry Pro mobile app


Me?  No. My Valley confers the 33.  Even if you go through in DC, you come back and do the degree in Utah.


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## George Coombs (Aug 20, 2016)

jdmadsenCraterlake211 said:


> can someone tell me what the highest rank in the YR is?  What I mean is that in order to be a member of the AASR supreme council you must be a 33rd degree, in order to be member of the Grand Encampment KT and Chapter and Council equivalent what rank must you hold?


The 33rd degree of the AASR isn't an honorary degree. It's an actual degree and you are an honorary member of the supreme council.  To be an active member of the supreme council you have to be selected by the  Grand Comander. Some say the KYCH in the york rite is the equivelent of the 33rd degree.


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## mrpierce17 (Aug 20, 2016)

George Coombs said:


> The 33rd degree of the AASR isn't an honorary degree. It's an actual degree and you are an honorary member of the supreme council.  To be an active member of the supreme council you have to be selected by the  Grand Comander. Some say the KYCH in the york rite is the equivelent of the 33rd degree.



QUOTE="George Coombs, post: 165312, member: 4418"]The 33rd degree of the AASR isn't an honorary degree. It's an actual degree and you are an honorary member of the supreme council.  To be an active member of the supreme council you have to be selected by the  Grand Comander. 
That's the way it works in the orient of Florida 

Some say the KYCH in the york rite is the equivelent of the 33rd degree.[/QUOTE]


That's not entirely true though some say it ....in order to become a KYCH you must sit in the East in each of the YR houses....in order to become a 33rd in AASR you must be recognized and recommend for your outstanding work in the Scottish Rite even if you are recommended your name goes before a board to be voted on and approved not everyone that is recommended gets approved


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## dfreybur (Aug 20, 2016)

George Coombs said:


> The 33rd degree of the AASR isn't an honorary degree.



Wording detail.  All other degrees can/must be petitioned for.  The 33rd can not be petitioned for.  The 33rd must be awarded without being asked for.  This is one of several meanings of the word "honorary" but it is a very useful meaning and the one that applies to the 33rd degree when it is called honorary.

I get that having a degree team makes it a real degree, but real is not an opposite of honorary.


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## Warrior1256 (Aug 20, 2016)

dfreybur said:


> Wording detail.  All other degrees can/must be petitioned for.  The 33rd can not be petitioned for.  The 33rd must be awarded without being asked for.  This is one of several meanings of the word "honorary" but it is a very useful meaning and the one that applies to the 33rd degree when it is called honorary.
> 
> I get that having a degree team makes it a real degree, but real is not an opposite of honorary.


This is pretty much the way that it was explained to me.


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## KSigMason (Aug 20, 2016)

jdmadsenCraterlake211 said:


> can someone tell me what the highest rank in the YR is?  What I mean is that in order to be a member of the AASR supreme council you must be a 33rd degree, in order to be member of the Grand Encampment KT and Chapter and Council equivalent what rank must you hold?


While it's hard to compare and contrast the two, the closest thing may be the Knights of the York Cross of Honor (KYCH) or CBCS/KBCH.


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## Glen Cook (Aug 21, 2016)

George Coombs said:


> The 33rd degree of the AASR isn't an honorary degree. It's an actual degree and you are an honorary member of the supreme council.  To be an active member of the supreme council you have to be selected by the  Grand Comander. Some say the KYCH in the york rite is the equivelent of the 33rd degree.


Though, the Convent General is a separate stand alone, self governed body.


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## Brother JC (Aug 21, 2016)

Glen Cook said:


> ...the Convent General is a separate stand alone, self governed body.



I'll take "Things the York Rites Bodies Have In Common" for $600, Alex.


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## Warrior1256 (Aug 21, 2016)

Brother JC said:


> I'll take "Things the York Rites Bodies Have In Common" for $600, Alex.


Lol!


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## Companion Joe (Aug 22, 2016)

The two top honors in York Rite are KYCH and Red Cross of Constantine.
KYCH is earned, as previously noted, and then you have to be balloted on where every KYCH in your state has a chance to object.
Red Cross of Constantine is something you have to be nominated for, have a write up done on you that is considered nationally, and if approved, your conclave ballots on. You can't ask for it. The number of people with the RCC in the U.S. is somewhere in the neighborbood of 5,000 (give or take).

Although there is no direct crossover, I have heard KYCH compared to the SR's KCCH and Red Cross of Constantine compared to 33rd.

Another thing about RCC, conclaves are restricted in size. You may be the most worthy person to ever walk the planet, but if your conclave is full, you have to wait until someone dies.


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## Glen Cook (Aug 22, 2016)

Companion Joe said:


> The two top honors in York Rite are KYCH and Red Cross of Constantine.
> KYCH is earned, as previously noted, and then you have to be balloted on where every KYCH in your state has a chance to object.
> Red Cross of Constantine is something you have to be nominated for, have a write up done on you that is considered nationally, and if approved, your conclave ballots on. You can't ask for it. The number of people with the RCC in the U.S. is somewhere in the neighborbood of 5,000 (give or take).
> 
> ...


The prerequisite body for RCC is Royal Arch only. RCC is  self governed, unlike the 33rd. While it doesn't detract from your position, membership is not approved nationally in the US  before a local ballot occurs   http://www.redcrossconstantine.org/resource-docs/RCC-Constitution-Statutes-Regulations-2016.pdf

KYCH is also a separate body from the so called York Rite.  If a local bylaw requires every KYCH in the state to approve, that is not a national requirement, and if I were personal rep for that area, they would be reviewed to ensure they are consistent with the national bylaws.


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## Companion Joe (Aug 22, 2016)

In Tennessee, when someone is put up for KYCH, the list of that year's candidates is sent out for all the KYCHs in the state to see. If you meet the requirements, there has to be a valid reason for an objection, and I think it has to be more than one. In former times, a reason didn't have to be given, and one person with a grudge could prevent you from getting it. That has been corrected. 
The way we do RCC, a proposal is read at your conclave's meeting, the proposal is forwarded on, then if returned favorably from the national body, the name is sent out to all the members of the conclave in case someone was not at the meeting, and it is balloted on by the members of the conclave at the next meeting. Maybe that's just the way we do it, and maybe it's always been done incorrectly, but the proposal is sent off before we vote. 


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## Glen Cook (Aug 22, 2016)

Companion Joe said:


> In Tennessee, when someone is put up for KYCH, the list of that year's candidates is sent out for all the KYCHs in the state to see. If you meet the requirements, there has to be a valid reason for an objection, and I think it has to be more than one. In former times, a reason didn't have to be given, and one person with a grudge could prevent you from getting it. That has been corrected.
> The way we do RCC, a proposal is read at your conclave's meeting, the proposal is forwarded on, then if returned favorably from the national body, the name is sent out to all the members of the conclave in case someone was not at the meeting, and it is balloted on by the members of the conclave at the next meeting. Maybe that's just the way we do it, and maybe it's always been done incorrectly, but the proposal is sent off before we vote.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using My Freemasonry Pro


Members of other KYCH priories have no right  object to members in your priory under national bylaws.  If I have time, I shall address this at Convent General this week. You are giving up your priory's rights. 

Review the RCC statutes I sent and identify where the national approval is stated. If that's the way your IG wants to run his division, that's his call. I don't do that in my division.


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## Companion Joe (Aug 22, 2016)

We only have one KYCH priory for the whole state. I am going to look at the RCC info when I get home and don't have to try to see it on my phone. If we aren't doing something correctly, I'll point it out. I've only been a member for 2 years, so I take it the guys have been in for years know what they are doing. 


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## Glen Cook (Aug 23, 2016)

Companion Joe said:


> We only have one KYCH priory for the whole state. I am going to look at the RCC info when I get home and don't have to try to see it on my phone. If we aren't doing something correctly, I'll point it out. I've only been a member for 2 years, so I take it the guys have been in for years know what they are doing.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using My Freemasonry Pro


Ahh.  I hadn't thought there would be only one in such a Masonically large state. 

Again, if your IG wants to send to Imperial, that's his choice but I'm not sure of the purpose.


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## Companion Joe (Aug 23, 2016)

Yeah, there is only one KYCH priory, and the annual meeting/conferral is once a year during Grand Lodge week.
We have five RCC conclaves. Again, I don't know if the way ours handles proposals is something the IG wants or something our secretary just does because he thinks that's the way it's supposed to be. I'm not an officer. I'm just a sideliner who goes with the flow in this one.


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## Glen Cook (Aug 23, 2016)

dfreybur said:


> Wording detail.  All other degrees can/must be petitioned for.  The 33rd can not be petitioned for.  The 33rd must be awarded without being asked for.  This is one of several meanings of the word "honorary" but it is a very useful meaning and the one that applies to the 33rd degree when it is called honorary.
> 
> I get that having a degree team makes it a real degree, but real is not an opposite of honorary.


Oh, the CBCS in the US cannot, nor can Red Cross


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## goomba (Sep 1, 2016)

As the YR is not a unified body and the invitational bodies are different; it would depend on the brother individually which order is the biggest honor.  Just my 2 cents.


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## Warrior1256 (Sep 2, 2016)

goomba said:


> As the YR is not a unified body and the invitational bodies are different; it would depend on the brother individually which order is the biggest honor.  Just my 2 cents.


I agree.


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## Mark.y (Dec 27, 2016)

I have always heard that the approximate equal of the 33 degree I the York Rite is being a member of the Red Cross of Constantine. Being a member is sometimes designated by the "Red Cross" medal worn on the Templar uniform and only allows a membership of 33 at a time.


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## Matt L (Dec 27, 2016)

Brother JC said:


> JD, the York requirements you mentioned aren't even standard. Some jurisdictions only require Chapter before Commandery; Council is often the bastard step-child. It is (imltho) one of the downfalls of the American Amalgamation. I would have preferred completely separate bodies, personally.



My thoughts exactly. I'm a PHP, PIM and now an Emmiment Commander.  We changed our stated meeting nights, Chapter Council on one night, Commandery on another.


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## Glen Cook (Dec 27, 2016)

Mark.y said:


> I have always heard that the approximate equal of the 33 degree I the York Rite is being a member of the Red Cross of Constantine. Being a member is sometimes designated by the "Red Cross" medal worn on the Templar uniform and only allows a membership of 33 at a time.


Well, no, the Red Cross on the Templar uniform should have nothing to do with the RCC, as that is not the manner approved by RCC. Note, the prerequisite for RCC is HRA, not KT.  No, the Imperial Constitution does not limit the number in a conclave to 33, though a particular conclave might do so.


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## Mark.y (Dec 28, 2016)

The Red Cross on the Templar uniform has a pre-requisit of the RCC, that's where it comes from. I am not talking about the passion crosses or the Mateze crosses (when in Grand Commandery) I am talking about the one that would be in a single medal form and sits next to the white Maltese cross from the order of Malta in that order on a uniform on the left chest. The conclaves in our state, at minimum, are limited to 33 active members, there can be honorary members, but only 33 active.


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## Mark.y (Dec 28, 2016)

Yes HRA is a component, members are called Knight Companions because of the association with the Templar degrees..


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## Glen Cook (Dec 28, 2016)

If you, as REGC, and the Intendant General allow the RCC jewel to be worn on on the left side in your jurisdiction, it's not my place to gainsay. However, I would invite your attention to
410.010. REGALIA AND JEWELS
Collar Ribbons for Jewels. Collar ribbons shall be used for all Jewels of the Order, except the Knight Grand Cross. ...

As to the subsequent post, indicating RCC uses the appellation of knight because of its association with Templary, I would disagree, but certainly would be interested in a citation.   HRA isn't just a "component ", it is the prerequisite of RCC.  The degrees within RCC would be components.    Templary is not a prerequisite and has no association with RCC of which I'm aware, but again, I'm willing to be educated.


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## Mark.y (Dec 28, 2016)

And looking through other posts, you cannot petition to become a member of the RCC, you must be nominated by a member, when there is an opening, it is voted on whether to accept the nomination, and then it is sent to the Imperial Council for approval, if accepted, they are then voted on to become a member and if elected for membership are put through the degree followed by the points.


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## Glen Cook (Dec 28, 2016)

Mark.y said:


> And looking through other posts, you cannot petition to become a member of the RCC, you must be nominated by a member, when there is an opening, it is voted on whether to accept the nomination, and then it is sent to the Imperial Council for approval, if accepted, they are then voted on to become a member and if elected for membership are put through the degree followed by the points.


Well, while there must be a clearance  before the invitation is sent, the process you outlined is not set by Imperial.  See §804.115. REGULAR MEMBERSHIP.


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## Mark.y (Dec 28, 2016)

Grand Encampment code calls for all medals, starting with the order of Malta which every Knight is entitled to wear, except for Grand Encampment medals to be worn on the left chest. Having visited Utah's Grand Sessions, I know that medals are worn on the left chest in Utah also and we are both members of the Northwest Department where we all meet in Boise Idaho every October and one of the subjects discussed this year was the wearing of medals. Left chest, and the Red Cross worn there is for RCC.


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## Glen Cook (Dec 28, 2016)

Mark.y said:


> Grand Encampment code calls for all medals, starting with the order of Malta which every Knight is entitled to wear, except for Grand Encampment medals to be worn on the left chest. Having visited Utah's Grand Sessions, I know that medals are worn on the left chest in Utah also and we are both members of the Northwest Department where we all meet in Boise Idaho every October and one of the subjects discussed this year was the wearing of medals. Left chest, and the Red Cross worn there is for RCC.


No. UT is SW Dept.  Yes, I've attended your YR Grand Sessions as well and no, we've not authorized the RCC jewel to be worn in Utah Grand Commandery,  as it is not currently approved by RCC for that purpose--and will not be for the next six months unless Imperial directs otherwise. 

As a slightly different note, I've wondered about the reason for   the increasing number of gongs/ribbons approved for KT uniforms: KYCH, veterans, PCA, and, you indicate, RCC. We are starting to look like South American generals (apologies to my SA brethren).


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## Glen Cook (Dec 28, 2016)

Ahh, I think I see the confusion. It is the Order of the Red Cross jewel which is worn on the KT uniform , not the Red Cross of Constantine jewel. See http://www.knightstemplar.org/gckt/nj/Uniform.htm

The Order of the Red Cross is conferred by KT. Red Cross of Constantine is conferred by an RCC Conclave. Different orders, organizations and, indeed, jewels


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## Companion Joe (Dec 28, 2016)

Yes, I agree that there is some confusion here. As noted above, the Red Cross within the Commandery and the Red Cross of Constantine are two completely different entities. 

At least in Tennessee, all Knights Templar have the Order of the Red Cross, and (can) wear the medal on their uniform. It's the first step in the Commandery followed by the Order of Malta and the Order of the Temple.

RCC is by invitation only, and membership in conclaves is usually limited to a certain number. I have heard that there are no more than about 7,000 Red Cross of Constantine members in the United States. Glenn can probably speak more knowledgeably about that.


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## KSigMason (Dec 28, 2016)

Mark.y said:


> I have always heard that the approximate equal of the 33 degree I the York Rite is being a member of the Red Cross of Constantine. Being a member is sometimes designated by the "Red Cross" medal worn on the Templar uniform and only allows a membership of 33 at a time.


The Red Cross of Constantine is very prestigious. However, the Red Cross of Constantine and the Illustrious Order of the Red Cross are two different bodies. The former is an invitational group that requires one to be Christian and a Royal Arch Mason. The latter is an order (a degree) conferred within the Commandery of Knights Templar. The jewels of these two groups are both red crosses, but are different in design.

http://www.travelingtemplar.com/2012/03/order-of-knights-of-red-cross-of.html

http://www.travelingtemplar.com/2014/08/the-illustrious-order-of-red-cross.html


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## Mark.y (Dec 28, 2016)

My humblest apologies if I have led anyone astray, being late in the night I was not separating the two as they should have been in my mind. The Order of the Red Cross is the degree previous to the Order of Malta in succession, where the RCC is an invitation only group. 

Back to the original subject matter - A group that could be considered as equal to the 33rd degree possibly - HRAKTP ( Holy Royal Arch Knight Templar Priests, they are invitation only, only one group per state (as far as I have knowledge) limited membership (33 in our state with 7 emeritus possible I believe) contains two of the three bodies of the York Rite (Council is not represented in the title at least, and really not in the degree either) . So only a very few are nominated and gain entrance within this group and is  York Rite based... Thoughts??.....


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## Glen Cook (Dec 28, 2016)

HRAKTP limits the number of tabernacles by commandery membership in that state; there may be more than one.  

A review of the statutes indicates that only commandery service is needed for membership, not HRA or Council.  http://www.hraktp.org/STATUTES.pdf

Historically, cryptic degrees were performed by this body. http://www.hraktp.org/history.html


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## Companion Joe (Dec 28, 2016)

This is why it's hard to make a direct comparison between SR 33 and anything YR. With all the YR bodies having, in most cases, separate governing organizations instead of a blanket leadership, what is considered the most prestigious is somewhat left in the eye of the beholder. Personally, it's Red Cross of Constantine. HRAKTP might be if Commandery is the most important thing to someone. Although it tries to be the bull of the woods when it comes to YR, Commandery has no more or less authority over the YR than do the Chapter and Council. Just because one (or two) bodies is/are prerequisites for another doesn't mean the last in the line is more important... despite what many of its adherents think. 

This isn't my comparison, but I like the one I've heard that puts KYCH equal to SR red hat and RCC equal to SR white hat. 
Others argue that KYCH is above RCC. Their opinion has merit, too.


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## Mark.y (Dec 28, 2016)

I would agree that in the statutes, one must be a Past Commander to be considered for membership, but to be a Knight, one must first become a Companion, and without going into detail, the degree, opening and closing all use references to the Blue Lodge, The Royal Arch and the Templar degree's and maybe in my mind only, the name "Holy Royal Arch" Knight Templar Priest would add some degree of preference to the Chapter..


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## Mark.y (Dec 28, 2016)

I would absolutely agree that there are some who believe that because the Templar degrees are the last in succession, that they are the highest level of the York Rite, but I would absolutely disagree with these thoughts. Each body is individual unto itself and although successive, have no more importance in my eyes. They are just added light. The Chapter degrees are among some of my favorite degrees in Masonry, with wonderful lessons for all who take the time to learn their meanings. Commandery degree also contain great lessons, but ultimately they are separate and equal in my eyes, although I'm sure there are some who would argue differently.


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## SimonM (Dec 28, 2016)

Mark.y said:


> ...but ultimately they are separate and equal in my eyes, although I'm sure there are some who would argue differently.


Since they are separate and equal, why do they have to be taken in a specific order? Are there references in later degrees to earlier which makes it more easy to understand if they are taken in that way?


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## Mark.y (Dec 28, 2016)

In most of the obligations it will state that you have (such & such) in a preceding degree, sometimes referring to a degree from another body. Does it "flow" better that way.... No , in the Royal Master degree ( a Council degree if you aren't familiar) it actually states that the order in which things happened is often not the order in which they are presented, yet you find how well it fills the gaps in our knowledge. This is evident right away as after the tragedy of the third degree you proceed to the Mark Master where HA is again alive and well. 

There is a festival in Colorado where the degrees are put on in their chronological order from EA through the order of the Temple, it is extremely interesting, but I must admit, I understood it better the way it is done in lodge. I have a copy of the order somewhere, if I dig for it I'm sure I could come up with it  interesting though.


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## Mark.y (Dec 28, 2016)

Historically I think you would find that the Royal Arch degree was the cause behind the schism between the Ancients and the Moderns which is what led to Mackey's land Mark #2. The Order of the Temple came to the US in 1769's in St. Andrews Royal Arch Lodge in Boston and was a military degree. When it became popular over time, formation of the Grand Encampment formed. As the Royal Arch was basically accepted a natural advancement from the Blue Lodge Degree's or in many cases part of it, the Order of the Temple became an "Additional" degree and so the order would have been formed at about this time frame. This is my opinion anyway as to why they are in this order and why they are separate, yet equal as they were only for a short time at best, governed by the same authority.


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## goomba (Dec 28, 2016)

For me the pinnacle in York Rite is SRICF.  However, this isn’t really York Rite as the only Masonic requirement is being a Master Mason.  But honestly the 33rd degree is an honor within the AASR.  So being invited to any YR invitational body can be seen as an equal honor of sorts. 


Here’s the truth (to me at least) the highest honor is that of Entered Apprentice.  It was during this degree I became a Mason, was introduced to Masonry, and was “invited” by the fraternity after a clear vote.  I truly believe this first degree is the most important and honorable degree any Mason can have.  It is the base of our Masonic life.  If we follow its teachings and live up to its lessons this alone will make us rock solid Masons.  The type of Masons we all should want to be.  What is more honorable than that?


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## Mark.y (Dec 28, 2016)

Goomba, I could not agree with you more. A few years ago, my youngest son petitioned my lodge. The serving Master of my home lodge asked if I would like to perform the Master Mason degree on him when the time came. I was honored of course, but made the request that I be able to do the Masters part for his EA degree instead. I was asked by several Brothers why I would make this choice and my answer was much like your's here. This is where you become a Brother in the lodge, yes the MM is the culmination of that experience, but this is a degree you will hold in your heart your whole life, the first time you are brought to light as a Mason. I honestly will remember that night for the rest of my life, I think he will too. It's a very special time


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## Glen Cook (Dec 28, 2016)

Mark.y said:


> I would agree that in the statutes, one must be a Past Commander to be considered for membership, but to be a Knight, one must first become a Companion, and without going into detail, the degree, opening and closing all use references to the Blue Lodge, The Royal Arch and the Templar degree's and maybe in my mind only, the name "Holy Royal Arch" Knight Templar Priest would add some degree of preference to the Chapter..


In the US, one must first be a companion, yes. Remember though, HRKTP came to us from England, which does not have the conglomerate known as York Rite.


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## Bloke (Dec 29, 2016)

Mark.y said:


> ..Back to the original subject matter - A group that could be considered as equal to the 33rd degree possibly - HRAKTP ( Holy Royal Arch Knight Templar Priests, they are invitation only, only one group per state (as far as I have knowledge) limited membership (33 in our state with 7 emeritus possible I believe) contains two of the three bodies of the York Rite (Council is not represented in the title at least, and really not in the degree either) . So only a very few are nominated and gain entrance within this group and is  York Rite based... Thoughts??.....



Firstly, disclaimer...I am only a member of the Craft (and Shrine, but unaffiliated at the moment).

KTPs (HRAKTP, but we just use KTP here) came to mind in thinking on this question..also SRIA... but I think a better way to ask the question might be "what in the York Rite is as hard to obtain as the 33rd Degree"... but that kinda does not work either - because we don't think in terms of "York Rite" and have you never noticed its sometimes called "American Rite"..... as many generally think of York Rite being a group of progressive degrees, its simply not that hard to get them here, but leading them is a different story, in an American context, maybe the equvilent "rank" to a 33rd would be KYCH ?

A slightly different spin, we have several invitation only orders which would probably not be thought of as "York Rite" . Order of Athelstan for instance, you need to be a MM and a HRA Mason... before being considered.. Royal Order of Eri is very small here which is invite only and you need to be Grade VII in SRIA before being invited -we have only one ROEri group working it in the state... Likewise the Commemorative Order of St Thomas of Acon; invite only and you need to be a KT and then invited..it has 5 groups, three in the State of Victoria, one in South Australia and one in New Zealand not I know a lot more in Acon than ROEri.... RCC's qualificatons here are MM and HRA.....my mentor was MP Sovereign of a RCC, but said the "hardest" degree was SRIA ... he'd asked to be in ROEri but was never invited...

Back to the KTPs, you need to be subscribing in the KT and PM in the Craft and "RAC" which I would assume is Royal Arch Chapter (HRA).. you certainly need to be a serious mason to get into it but my money is on ROEri as one of the hardest Orders to join here..but none of that really answers the question... one thing for sure, Craft PDGM is a rare rank - I know less of them than 33rds...which is *really* hard to get here.. because  I dont think its conferred but must be obtained through holding an active position on the Supreme Council. I really need to find out more about AASR here, because these sort of questions often come up...


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## Companion Joe (Dec 30, 2016)

I can't subscribe to the Rosicrucians being the top of the heap. I don't see it as directly related to the Craft story. I was around about asked if I'd like to be proposed. I said "please don't" - mainly because I don't need to have another dues card (and bill) at the moment; I'm not one to go down the esoteric rabbit hole; and if I wanted to join later, officially declining an invite would probable not go over well. I mean, come on, if they'd have me as a member, how exclusive can it be? 

I'd like to jump in my wayback machine and tell the SR to not assign numbers to its degrees. That's where a lot of Masons, non-Masons, and conspiracy theorists get led astray. The SR slapped numbers on everything, so 4-14-32-and 33 are all HIGHER than 3, so they must be more important. The YR just has names for the degrees and orders, therefore it isn't as easy for the human brain to draw a line. 

If you say to someone "I'm a 33rd degree Mason" they say "Oooooooh, you must know where the gold is." If you say to someone "I am a KYCH" or "I have the Red Cross of Constantine" they say "You better go get a shot for that."


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## Elexir (Dec 30, 2016)

Considering that SRIA dont consider themself a masonic order but rather a order that only admits masons Im not sure why they or the RoE is listed here.


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## goomba (Dec 30, 2016)

Companion Joe said:


> I can't subscribe to the Rosicrucians being the top of the heap. I don't see it as directly related to the Craft story. I was around about asked if I'd like to be proposed. I said "please don't" - mainly because I don't need to have another dues card (and bill) at the moment; I'm not one to go down the esoteric rabbit hole; and if I wanted to join later, officially declining an invite would probable not go over well. I mean, come on, if they'd have me as a member, how exclusive can it be?
> 
> I'd like to jump in my wayback machine and tell the SR to not assign numbers to its degrees. That's where a lot of Masons, non-Masons, and conspiracy theorists get led astray. The SR slapped numbers on everything, so 4-14-32-and 33 are all HIGHER than 3, so they must be more important. The YR just has names for the degrees and orders, therefore it isn't as easy for the human brain to draw a line.
> 
> If you say to someone "I'm a 33rd degree Mason" they say "Oooooooh, you must know where the gold is." If you say to someone "I am a KYCH" or "I have the Red Cross of Constantine" they say "You better go get a shot for that."



I've been involved in some conspiracy chats in the past concerning the lodge.  I laugh we people talk about the SR degrees and tell them that the 32nd degree is awarded fairly quickly after joining the SR.  I hate those numbers as nonMasons obsess over them.

I say the Blue Friars run everything by the logic small is more powerful.  Just blame Brent Morris since he's on TV.


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## Ripcord22A (Jan 3, 2017)

Companion Joe said:


> "I have the Red Cross of Constantine" they say "You better go get a shot for that."


you win the internet today Brother!


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## Kalip78 (Jan 11, 2017)

There is beautiful chart by NMJ comparing the structure of American Freemasonry. And I think there are very wise words in it: “A Mason in York Rite advances 10 degrees, known by name and not by degree number. On chart are figures he meets at each degree or the degree symbol. Figures are: temple workman, Past Master (Virtual), Israel tribesman, High Priest of Jews, King Hiram of Tyre, Knight of Malta, Knight Templar, equal IN PRESTIGE to 33 degree in Scottish Rite”. In my opinion the word “prestige” is a key word when comparing Masonic systems.  Everything else is not comparable I think.

Frats from Poland


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## Glen Cook (Jan 12, 2017)

Kalip78 said:


> There is beautiful chart by NMJ comparing the structure of American Freemasonry. And I think there are very wise words in it: “A Mason in York Rite advances 10 degrees, known by name and not by degree number. On chart are figures he meets at each degree or the degree symbol. Figures are: temple workman, Past Master (Virtual), Israel tribesman, High Priest of Jews, King Hiram of Tyre, Knight of Malta, Knight Templar, equal IN PRESTIGE to 33 degree in Scottish Rite”. In my opinion the word “prestige” is a key word when comparing Masonic systems.  Everything else is not comparable I think.
> 
> Frats from Poland


https://www.facebook.com/carbonlodg...3520761334474/480810678605479/?type=1&theater

It's wrong.


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## Companion Joe (Jan 12, 2017)

The picture is from Life Magazine. It was inside its Oct. 8, 1956 issue that featured Freemasonry. The cover has a huge group shot of all the state Grand Masters. I have the magazine and really love that picture. I use it as my desktop photo from time to time. It was not, however, commissioned by any Masonic body. It is a creation of the Life art department. Creating the stair step look with _ascending_ degrees has helped create much confusion within and without Freemasonry.

If  you have never read that particular copy of Life, I suggest you try to track down a copy. I good portion of the issue is devoted to Freemasonry.


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## Warrior1256 (Jan 12, 2017)

Companion Joe said:


> At least in Tennessee, all Knights Templar have the Order of the Red Cross, and (can) wear the medal on their uniform. It's the first step in the Commandery followed by the Order of Malta and the Order of the Temple.


Same here in Kentucky.


Companion Joe said:


> With all the YR bodies having, in most cases, separate governing organizations instead of a blanket leadership, what is considered the most prestigious is somewhat left in the eye of the beholder.


Agreed.


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## Peck1988 (Jan 29, 2017)

To get to 33rd you can join rose croix which puts you at 18th degree then work your way up, am hopefully going to be joining rose croix soon, am a MM, RA and joining KT next year 


Sent from my iPhone using My Freemasonry


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## Glen Cook (Jan 30, 2017)

Peck1988 said:


> To get to 33rd you can join rose croix which puts you at 18th degree then work your way up, am hopefully going to be joining rose croix soon, am a MM, RA and joining KT next year
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using My Freemasonry


No, I'm afraid one doesn't work their way up to 33, especially in England. Indeed, I suspect you know very few 32 degree AAR Masons.


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## Peck1988 (Jan 30, 2017)

There are 3 in my lodge, all 3 very high ranking masons all grand officers, I don't know the process no I admit I just thought it would be the same as my craft lodge, haven't been given much information on rose croix as I don't really want to know want to go in to it blind, so sorry if my answer was wrong.


Fraternal Hello
Bro. Scott Peckham 
Thermopylae Lodge 4386, England, Cheshire
UGLE


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## Glen Cook (Jan 30, 2017)

Peck1988 said:


> There are 3 in my lodge, all 3 very high ranking masons all grand officers, I don't know the process no I admit I just thought it would be the same as my craft lodge, haven't been given much information on rose croix as I don't really want to know want to go in to it blind, so sorry if my answer was wrong.
> 
> 
> Fraternal Hello
> ...


To clarify, you only know three 32. 

We are all still learning. 

And hello from across the province. 

PPrJGW, Lodge of Concord 323
PPrAGSoj and Third Principal elect, Samaritan Chapter 368


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## Peck1988 (Jan 30, 2017)

Yes they are all 32 degree masons, it confused me when I first found out because I thought there wasn't a Degree system in York rite.

Wow I shall be calling you sir from now on  



Fraternal Hello
Bro. Scott Peckham 
Thermopylae Lodge 4386, England, Cheshire
UGLE


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## BullDozer Harrell (Jan 30, 2017)

Ripcord22A said:


> I understand that brother.
> , I understand that you can stop when ever you want but cant start wherever you want.   my thought process was that since you have to go through council and chapter first that KT must be considered higher, I was wondering if there is a rank or decoration within any of the 3 national bodies that is equal to a 33rd in stature if not actually equal to....


I guess you could consider KYCH as the York Rite equivalent of the SR 33rd.


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## Glen Cook (Jan 30, 2017)

BullDozer Harrell said:


> I guess you could consider KYCH as the York Rite equivalent of the SR 33rd.


Well, KYCH isn't a degree, and is a separate, stand alone organisation not governed by any of the three YR groups. I really don't know anyone that considers it equivalent.


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## Glen Cook (Jan 30, 2017)

Peck1988 said:


> Yes they are all 32 degree masons, it confused me when I first found out because I thought there wasn't a Degree system in York rite.
> 
> Wow I shall be calling you sir from now on
> 
> ...


You are correct, the degrees aren't number in the poorly named York Rite (another discussion), unless you consider just the symbolic degrees of the craft lodge.  Indeed, we don't have the YR in England; there is no perceived progression from RA to Cryptic to KT. 
Note, the Ancient and Accepted Rite is not York Rite.


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## BullDozer Harrell (Jan 30, 2017)

Glen Cook said:


> Well, KYCH isn't a degree, and is a separate, stand alone organisation not governed by any of the three YR groups. I really don't know anyone that considers it equivalent.


Absolutely correct and explained well, Brother Cook. I was just pandering to those whom might have carried the opinion.


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## Glen Cook (Jan 30, 2017)

BullDozer Harrell said:


> Absolutely correct and explained well, Brother Cook. I was just pandering to those whom might have carried the opinion.


I'm not above pandering, but only when there is a benefit.


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## Kalip78 (Feb 2, 2017)

Well, looking for eqivalents causes many funny situations. Just look at France and their "irregular landscape". When they tried to find equivalents between AASR and French Rite (intervisitation!) they simply found out that when you are at the top of French Rite you are poorly half as good Mason, as 33 degree Mason is...  Well, there are many different systems and for me, when you get to the top, you are the top Mason in THAT system and it means you are equal in prestige with Brethern whe are at the top of THEIR systems.

But yes, there are systems similar to each other. Let's compare Royal Arch + KT to continental Rectified Scottish Rite. You will find a lot of similarities between Royal Arch degree and Scottish Master of St. Andrew on one hand and between KT/KM and CBCS on the other hand. Thats why there are mutual agreements between RSR Priories and KT Priories and intervisitation is allowed. At least in Europe.

In other words - there are systems that you can compare, a those that you can't. In my opinion. 

Frats from snowy Warsaw!


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## Warrior1256 (Feb 2, 2017)

Kalip78 said:


> Let's compare Royal Arch + KT to continental Rectified Scottish Rite. You will find a lot of similarities between Royal Arch degree and Scottish Master of St. Andrew on one hand and between KT/KM and CBCS on the other hand. Thats why there are mutual agreements between RSR Priories and KT Priories and intervisitation is allowed. At least in Europe.


Didn't know this, thank you for the info. Am going to read up on this. Interesting.


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## Kalip78 (Feb 3, 2017)

This is from the website of Grand Prieuré de Belgique (http://www.gpbel.org):

"_The Great Priory of Belgium and its Prefectures in Australia maintain a friendly international working relationship with the majority of Great Priories of Knights Templar around the world. For many years now, a mutual right of visitation is in place. Members of the Great Priory of Belgium who hold the degree of Knight Beneficent of the Holy City can visit Knight Templar meetings of officially recognised Great Priories. In return Knights Templar of recognised Great Priories can visit meetings in the degree of Knight Beneficent of the Holy City in the Great Priory of Belgium and its Prefectures in Australia._"

The same point of view represents Independent Grand Priory of Helvetia, Mother-Grand Body of RSR.

It seems that Templar family is united in Europe. To RSR and KT you can add Swedish Rite as well. There are official agreements between RSR, KT and SwR, too.

S&F from Warsaw!


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## Lemegeton (Feb 5, 2017)

I consider the Purple Cross through the York Rite College to be the equivalent of the 33rd Degree AASR in terms of being an honorary title. A lot of KYCH brothers consider the KYCH to be the 33rd Degree equivalent, however the KYCH is pretty obtainable. Think of how easy it'd be to obtain the KYCH if you just continue staying active inside of the York Rite.

If your York Rite is anything like mine, just simply showing up and doing the work is good enough to get you into higher chair officer positions. The hardest part of the KYCH (and we all know this) is finishing up your year in the oriental chair of your blue lodge.


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## Glen Cook (Feb 5, 2017)

I really didn't find it that hard to finish my required term in the Craft. HRA was far more demanding for me.


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## Kalip78 (Feb 13, 2017)

Finally, I managed to find it! It's official equivalent chart of AASR of Switzerland.

Maybe this will help. 

Frats from Warsaw!

PS: GNM3W means German Große National-Mutterloge „Zu den drei Weltkugeln“ which has its own system.


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## Ripcord22A (Feb 13, 2017)

Thats cool, not much help but cool

Sent from my LG-H918 using My Freemasonry mobile app


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## Kalip78 (Feb 13, 2017)

Well, that's the way they do it in Switzerland...

;-)

S&F


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## Warrior1256 (Feb 13, 2017)

Kalip78 said:


> Well, that's the way they do it in Switzerland...


Interesting!


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## FriendshipCube (Aug 3, 2017)

Kalip78 said:


> This is from the website of Grand Prieuré de Belgique (http://www.gpbel.org):
> 
> "_The Great Priory of Belgium and its Prefectures in Australia maintain a friendly international working relationship with the majority of Great Priories of Knights Templar around the world. For many years now, a mutual right of visitation is in place. Members of the Great Priory of Belgium who hold the degree of Knight Beneficent of the Holy City can visit Knight Templar meetings of officially recognised Great Priories. In return Knights Templar of recognised Great Priories can visit meetings in the degree of Knight Beneficent of the Holy City in the Great Priory of Belgium and its Prefectures in Australia._"
> 
> ...




_*There is a Chapel for the Priory of Knights Templar, in England.     The stained glass windows feature ancient symbolism.  There are Arch-Angels in the upper corners of the six walls with stained glass windows, placed there to oversee and protect the Knights.*_




_"Remove not the ancient landmark which thy fathers have set." -Proverbs 22_​


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## Warrior1256 (Aug 4, 2017)

Very nice!


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## KSigMason (Aug 7, 2017)

That is beautiful!


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## Jim Barr (Sep 2, 2017)

I've heard that the Red Cross of Constantine is the closest equivalent to the 33rd in the York Rite.


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## Glen Cook (Sep 2, 2017)

Jim Barr said:


> I've heard that the Red Cross of Constantine is the closest equivalent to the 33rd in the York Rite.


Except that RCC only requires HRA: 
804.115. REGULAR MEMBERSHIP.


Regular Membership in a Conclave may be attained only by invitation, which invitation shall be extended only after proper clearance through the Grand Recorder’s Office, if required. Only Royal Arch Masons on whom the Constantinian Order of Christian Knighthood may be conferred and Knights Companions of this or any sister Jurisdiction holding a Demit, Certificate of Good Standing or similar document may be invited as Regular Members of the Conclave.


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## FriendshipCube (Sep 18, 2017)




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## Warrior1256 (Sep 19, 2017)

Cool graphic!


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## Warrior1256 (Feb 22, 2018)

Lemegeton said:


> I consider the Purple Cross through the York Rite College to be the equivalent of the 33rd Degree AASR in terms of being an honorary title.


I would be interested to know how others feel that the York Rite Sovereign College of North America fits into this conversation.


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## hanzosbm (Feb 22, 2018)

As others have stated, I think it's difficult due to the different structures of the two groups.  33rd is WITHIN the SR.  RCC is outside of the YR.  But, as the YR is made up of separate bodies, it becomes difficult to really say what the most prestigious grade within the rite is.  If you start going down the rabbit hole of 'this group requires being of a certain level within this other group', it starts to get really messy.  Imagine one invitational body that requires membership of both Chapter and Commandery, and another only Counsel, but the latter limits their numbers to a smaller group, or also has a requirement of PM in blue lodge...which is more prestigious?  And, as the SRICF was brought up earlier, yes it is invitational and rather exclusive, but doesn't require membership in any other appendant body.  Theoretically, you could be raised on Monday and be invited on Tuesday (a gross exaggeration).  And then of course, you get into some of the, shall we say, non-public organizations, which are not only invitational, but whose requirements might span both SR and YR.  It quickly gets all mixed up.


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## Warrior1256 (Feb 22, 2018)

hanzosbm said:


> As others have stated, I think it's difficult due to the different structures of the two groups.


I totally understand. It is just that since we are discussing this subject anyway I was curious as to where the other Brothers thought that the York Rite College would fit in.


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## EVG Yumul (Mar 13, 2019)

Ripcord22A said:


> Thats cool, not much help but cool
> 
> Sent from my LG-H918 using My Freemasonry mobile app



Not quite sure why you mentioned that the chart doesn't help, it's exactly what you were asking for, Brother.
The chart lists the Swedish Rite equivalents of the degrees of other Masonic Orders and Bodies.
A quick Google Translate will show that it compares AASR, Swedish Rite, York (American) Rite, RER, et al.


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## Jim Barr (Mar 13, 2019)

OK, I responded a couple years ago, and some things have changed personally, so here's an update....

It's difficult to draw a clean comparison, because the AASR consists of continuous degrees, culminating with the 33rd. The York Rite in the U.S.A. on the other hand, consists of 3 distinct bodies: Royal Arch Chapter, Council of Royal and Select Masters, and the Commandery. All bodies are independent of each other, are co-equal in stature, and yet some build on others. You have to be a member of the Royal Arch to join the Council and the Commandery, but you don't have to be a member of the Council to join a Commandery. I've seen in some states where the Commandery has been elevated to a prestigious level above the other bodies, but sadly arrogance and ego tends to drive it. In South Carolina, we seek for unity and equality, viewing all bodies as necessary to gain all of the Masonic Light that the YR has to offer.

In addition to the three bodies are many Appendent bodies that confer additional degrees and honors. Some simply follow on, and others are invitation only organizations. Some delve into the esoteric, some fill in gaps left in the YR degrees, and some are for honor and recognition for service and support.

The KYCH is an honor, but to me it's more of a milestone. You earn it by completing service as Master of a Blue Lodge, High Priest of a Royal Arch Chapter, Illustrious Master of a Council, and Commander of a Commandery. There are specific administrative requirements that can vary from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. And when you serve as a grand head of one or more of the four bodies, you can receive the KYGCH, or Knight York Grand Cross of Honour. For each grand head position you serve, you receive a "quadrant" on your jewel of the color of the body. So when I served as Most Illustrious Grand Master of the Grand Council of Royal and Select Masters of South Carolina, I received the KYGCH with one purple quadrant for having served the Grand Council.

The Red Cross of Constantine is an honorary degree and organization. It is limited in members, and is by invitation only. Like the 33rd degree and other honor organizations, you do not ask for it. I received the RCC last year, and I was told that it is accepted by the Supreme Council AASR as equivalent to the 33rd degree. There are no cross-visitation rights, it's only the "culmination" of standard York Rite Masonry. And like most honor and appendent bodies, there are officer and rankings at the local, Grand, and General Grand levels. 

Each of the YR bodies also has "high honor" awards and honors specific to the body. For example, the General Grand Council of Cryptic Masons International has the Order of the Secret Vault that has very limited membership. I was honored this weekend to receive it at South Carolina's Grand York Rite assembly. I did not ask for it, nor was it expected.

The point is that there is no direct correlation between the degrees and honors of the ASSR and the YR, but each does recognize exceptional service and devotion. And remember, that in Freemasonry, there is NO higher degree than the 3rd Degree, that degree on which all Master Masons are on the level.


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## Glen Cook (Mar 13, 2019)

Jim Barr said:


> OK, I responded a couple years ago, and some things have changed personally, so here's an update....
> 
> It's difficult to draw a clean comparison, because the AASR consists of continuous degrees, culminating with the 33rd. The York Rite in the U.S.A. on the other hand, consists of 3 distinct bodies: Royal Arch Chapter, Council of Royal and Select Masters, and the Commandery. All bodies are independent of each other, are co-equal in stature, and yet some build on others. You have to be a member of the Royal Arch to join the Council and the Commandery, but you don't have to be a member of the Council to join a Commandery. I've seen in some states where the Commandery has been elevated to a prestigious level above the other bodies, but sadly arrogance and ego tends to drive it. In South Carolina, we seek for unity and equality, viewing all bodies as necessary to gain all of the Masonic Light that the YR has to offer.
> 
> ...


Excellent summation in large, though the SC does not accept RCC as equivalent to 33. It says nothing about it. 

Since RCC does not have KT or Cryptic as a prerequisite, it is hard to see how it would be a culmination of York Rite.


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## EVG Yumul (Mar 13, 2019)

I get that, Brother, and I agree.
I was simply pertaining to answer the original intent of the question in this thread:
What rank/degree in the "American" Rite would you need to possess to visit a certain degree in the Swedish Rite, knowing that the AASR does have equivalencies in the Swedish Rite?


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