# Worshipful Master



## Blake Bowden

Should Worshipful Masters hold a Certificate?


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## Sirius

While I do think a Master should at least have a 'c', I don't think a requirement for it should be required. 'Recommended' would work. I'm always shy of GL requiring anything. 

Good question, Bro Blake.


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## jonesvilletexas

The Master of the Lodge sets the example of the lodge. The certificate is part of that example that he should set for other members.


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## JTM

there are other reasons to install a worshipful master than just ritual.

some people will never be good ritualists, but are good leaders.


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## JEbeling

Has nothing to do with being Master.. !


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## Blake Bowden

JTM said:


> there are other reasons to install a worshipful master than just ritual.
> 
> some people will never be good ritualists, but are good leaders.



Amen.


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## david918

So what would you do in a small town lodge where none of the brothers has a certificate.Make them hand in their charter.Can't have a lodge without a Worshipful Master.

David Broman
PM&Secy El Campo#918
MC Wharton#621


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## jonesvilletexas

I cannot speak for Blake, but I take it as not mandatory but would be good for him to have one, see my last post on this matter on how I feel.


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## TexMass

A certificate in what?  Ritual?


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## JEbeling

The Grand Lodge has no business telling Lodges who can or can't be worshipful master..! 
the one year they tried this I was district instructor.. with nine lodges.. we ran around in a circle .. the day of installation trying to get everybody certified.. ? it was a zoo.. ? works fine on paper.. but not in the real world.. !


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## RJS

I don't think that it should be a requirement.  Encouraged, but not required.


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## JTM

david918 said:


> So what would you do in a small town lodge where none of the brothers has a certificate.Make them hand in their charter.Can't have a lodge without a Worshipful Master.
> 
> David Broman
> PM&Secy El Campo#918
> MC Wharton#621



the DI for a lodge close to mine said that on a lodge visit, they had a really hard time opening the lodge correctly, much less confer a degree.

i do remember hearing about a suggestion to GL that they make it so that officers all have to be able to open and close a lodge or they can't hold lodge at all.


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## TexMass

TexMass said:


> A certificate in what?  Ritual?



What is this certificate everyone is talking about?


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## TCShelton

Absolutely not.


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## TexMass

TexMass said:


> What is this certificate everyone is talking about?



Can someone tell me what this certificate is?


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## TCShelton

A, B, or C certificates.  Says that you have been examined to be able to proficiently do different levels of ritual work by memory.


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## TexMass

Oh, ok.  Thanks.


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## TexMass

There is no requirment for Masters in MA in that respect but it is "expected" that you cover every degree in your turn.  They call it "doing all your work".  In fact the Master has the right to deligate all his work but it almost never happens.


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## rhitland

the only way I wouold agree to requiring a cert. is if it was Lodge by-laws not GL law. GL has there hands full with all the laws they have to enfoce now. I have also heard the same thing by a DI here in D/FW that when officers where req. to be certed in opening in closings it turned into a zoo making it almost impssible for the DI to get it done properly at least. Not to mention that is a heck of a spot to be in if a lodge cannot open and close properly and the DI has to fail them. The memory work was not meant to be a burden to the Master Mason it was meant to give them more light b/c no matter how wide your eyes are open you cannot see squat without light and the more light you have the more you can see. The memory work is almost an inexaustable source of light and all you have to do is memorize words and click the switch flips on and more light fills your life.


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## Wingnut

Ive been trying to get the L.I.G.H.T. books for a long time...


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## scottmh59

i have no opinion one way or the other


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## rhitland

scottmh59 said:


> i have no opinion one way or the other



I am so glad you told us this!


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## scottmh59

just here to help:thumbup1:


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## Bill Lins

I think a WM should have enough pride in himself & consideration for his Brethren to learn to open & close Lodge correctly. I've also been in Lodges where the WM was incapable of opening & closing- some were so bad that it would have been preferable for the Lodge to have not opened at all.

Our current requirement of certifying WM's in opening & closing is not onerous. All I look for is for the WM to be able to get the 4 Lodges opened & closed without needing to be prompted. After all, that will be part of his job. I do not insist that he be letter-perfect. It's more like a proficiency than a certificate exam.

As to a Chinese fire drill after elections, I refuse to participate. There are a number of Committee on Work Forums & exams given in our area in the spring (5 this year) that those who desired to be elected to the office of WM could attend & get certified at. In addition, I held a certification exam the Saturday following the last election in our District. Any one who could not make it to a Forum could come to my session, which I notified the Lodges about back in January. Everyone had ample opportunity to tend to their business. I only had one "Brother" who waited until the last minute & tried to pressure me into signing off on him without demonstrating his proficiency (of which he had none). Guess what? He ain't the WM of his Lodge this year.


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## cambridgemason

in my view, it is one more thing for the master to do, one more thing for the GL to do. While I think it is important that something be done to help, it is up to the PM of the lodge to step in if whatever needs to be done.  Here in Mass. we have a masters path that all masters MUST attend.  It goes over the duties, how to run a business meeting, committees etc. I have seen men that can not put two words together but do some great things for the lodge.  Others that can spit out the ritual in their sleep, forward and backwards, but do crap for the lodge. Do lodges in Texas hold a class called the masters path and make the masters go to it?  voted unsure on this topic


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## HKTidwell

There are some here who know that I would like to see myself and some others I know go for our certs in the next year or so.  However I would not want the GLoTX to mandate/force/require this to be.  My personal opinion about mandates and requirements is once you start requiring one person then it is expanded to two then three and so forth.  Each lodge should take pride in their lodge and making sure the officers, and degree teams are run efficently and as close to perfect as possible.  No matter how good a person is they will screw something up.

:6:


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## JTM

no, there are other reasons that a master of a lodge should be installed than just memorized ritual.


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## js4253

JTM said:


> there are other reasons to install a worshipful master than just ritual.
> 
> some people will never be good ritualists, but are good leaders.





I agree.  I think the policy of being tested by the DI or COW is good though.  A Brother who is traveling to the East should be able to open and close the Lodge.  His leadership ability and the fact that the Lodge wants him to be WM is what counts most.


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## rhitland

The GLoT has had no rquirments on the work for a long time and look at where it got us collectivley. No 2 lodges open lodge the same as it should be and especially going into the leadership role of the lodge and not knowing the work to me would like being CEO of beef company and being a vegan. You have to have a basic understanding of your job you have commited yourself to and as all jobs there are certian requirments that must be met and a basic knowledge of your job, in order to be an effective leader. In my humble opinion if you are WM and do not know how to open and close for your brothers you are giving tehm a distinct impression you do things half expletive.


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## owls84

I really enjoy Bro. Bill's input into this. From the eyes of a DI. 

My feelings on the Brother that stated the what do we do about the small town lodges that can't open and close? My answer is, GL give plenty of resources to learn the work. Every district has a DI that is capable of teaching them the work if it is wanted. How can one spread light of masonry and not know the rituals? I think at minimum a C should be required. If am man can't take the time to learn a few lines then how can he be a leader? It is not that complicated. 

Has anyone else seen Lodges that go through the motions of having different people be WM but the same people run the lodge? I just see this as preventing unqualified people becoming PMs. Truthfully I think PM has become watered down in our Jurisdiction.

These are just my feelings right now. I may change 5 years down the road but I just don't see the big deal in having Masters show a slight commitment.


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## owls84

After posting my last response I re-read what cambridgemason had to say about how they don't require it but it is expected. 

I think about the things that were told me when I spoke to some older members about this. They said a long time ago the memory work wasn't required but it was taught and you were expected to learn it. At some point someone said well if it isn't required I am not doing it. Then if you were going to be an officer period you were to have the knowledge of what now is an A certificate. It wasn't required and someone said if it is not required we can bend the tradition a little an now look. We have lodges that can't open and close much less do a degree. These things never changed but because it is not required people felt like it doesn't matter. He told me that you didn't do it to learn the memory work it was proof that you were committed and that you can pass that along to the next guy. 

That is just the point of view from an elderly Brother that I spoke to.


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## js4253

cambridgemason said:


> in my view, it is one more thing for the master to do, one more thing for the GL to do. While I think it is important that something be done to help, it is up to the PM of the lodge to step in if whatever needs to be done.  Here in Mass. we have a masters path that all masters MUST attend.  It goes over the duties, how to run a business meeting, committees etc. I have seen men that can not put two words together but do some great things for the lodge.  Others that can spit out the ritual in their sleep, forward and backwards, but do crap for the lodge. Do lodges in Texas hold a class called the masters path and make the masters go to it?  voted unsure on this topic



In Texas we have Warden's retreats. Junior Wardens prepare for the Senior Warden job. Senior Wardens prepare for Worshipful Master job.  I do think there is room for improvement, but GLOT does attempt to provide Leadership training.


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## Bill Lins

We also have the L.I.F.E. program for those who cannot get to a Wardens' Retreat. As John & others have posted, the resources are available- it's up to the Brother to avail himself of them.


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## nick1368

JTM said:


> there are other reasons to install a worshipful master than just ritual.
> 
> some people will never be good ritualists, but are good leaders.



and just because they are able to be good ritualist doesn't mean they are good leaders.  while I think it sets a good example of what the Lodge members should strive for, I don't think GL should make it a requirement to hold a C, B, or A certif.


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## Bill Lins

nick1368 said:


> I don't think GL should make it a requirement to hold a C, B, or A certif.



I agree, but I do think the WM ought to be able to open & close his own Lodge. You know, this only became an issue when GL deleted the requirement for a few years. Had it been in effect all along, nobody would have thought twice about it.


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## js4253

Bill_Lins77488 said:


> We also have the L.I.F.E. program for those who cannot get to a Wardens' Retreat. As John & others have posted, the resources are available- it's up to the Brother to avail himself of them.



I can't imagine anyone taking the WM position and not trying to prepare himself for the job.


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## Bill Lins

Me either, but it does happen. :-(


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## fairbanks1363pm

it think to be master mean should master something.  either know the work or law book. my opinion has changed on this issue because i have seen great masters who didnt know the ritual but do a great job as master and dealing with the issues that come with the East. i now think the most important issue is to be a leader.  we need leadership in freemasonry. it would be gret for masters to do all the ritual but, in todays society i dont see it happening.


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## TCShelton

Yes, some Masons are good ritualists, some are good leaders.  To be WM, you should at least have a little of both.  At least be able to open and close.


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## RedTemplar

TCShelton said:


> Yes, some Masons are good ritualists, some are good leaders.  To be WM, you should at least have a little of both.  At least be able to open and close.



What about a leadership certificate for those desiring to become WM? The criteria could include a little of both, maybe a lot, or somewhere in between.


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## TCShelton

Templar, I'd be all for that.  It would be really simple at this point.  Just combine the ritual cert with the LIFE program card.


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## Gerald.Harris

blake said:


> Should Worshipful Masters hold a Certificate?



 Brother Blake, I voted yes on this issue for several reasons. The first of which is Article 187 which requires that the three principal officers of a new lodge must be able to collectively confer all three degrees in Due form.  I know that there are those who will argue that we are not seeking dispensation to open a lodge. On that point I agree, but I feel that if it is a requirement for a new lodge, why shouldn't it be the same for an established lodge.
 Secondly, I have been a District Instructor for going on 8 years. I have seen  the lodges all perform their work, both during degree conferral, and during opening and closing ceremonies.The lodges that have  Masters or Wardens who have certificates , all do better ritualistic work, hands down then lodges that do not. They also seem to have more confidence in the way that they conduct their business.  I feel that if a Master has his ritualistic work memorized, then he does not spend hours worring about if he is right or wrong, and has more time to devote to carrying on the non ritualistic business of the lodge.
 Thirdly, I believe that if a brother has the iniative to even consider working the chairs and becoming a Worshipful Master of his lodge, then he should commit himself to learning the work. I find it hard to understand why a brother who does not know his work would want to sit in the East and embarrass himself and his Lodge in front of his own members or visitors. If he does not feel this way, then I would question his reasons for accepting the nomination in the first place. Is he seeking recognition, self satisfaction, or is he doing this simply to make some one else happy? 
 Fourthly, I feel that he should have it in his heart to conduct the business of a Masonic Lodge in its entirety, without help from an outside source.  He should have enough pride in himself and his Lodge to want to be able to do what is required of a Masonic Lodge, What would happen if his was the last Lodge standing after some great disaster that destroyed all surrounding lodges. Who would carry on the work?
 Lastly, I want to state that I feel there is a place for all brethren in this great fraternity of ours, the ritualist, the business men, the lawyers, the intellectuals, philosophers, any and all good men who wish to better themselves, their lodge, and the fraternity in general. I know brothers who will never be ritualist who are some of the greatest masons I know and love. I still state that if they want to become a Worshipful Master they should at least learn how to open and close a lodge, teach a candidate the required work of each degree, and listen to a visitor give a trial oath, to determine if they are a mason or not. All of the requirements for a "C" Certificate.


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## Bill Lins

RedTemplar said:


> What about a leadership certificate for those desiring to become WM? The criteria could include a little of both, maybe a lot, or somewhere in between.



Red- that's basically what we're doing, except they only get an actual certificate for completing the LIFE program or for attending a Wardens' Retreat. The esoteric "C" certificate goes way beyond what little amount of ritual at which WM's are currently required to be proficient.


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## JEbeling

NO.. ! and I think most here know my reasons.. ! The lodge can elect any one they want for WM.. ! and he should NOT have to be blessed by committee on "Hope and Change" or anyone else.. ! if he is a master mason in good standing and the lodge elects him .. ! should be end of story..? if you don't like him and don't think he would be good for your lodge then VOTE... ! if you go to some other lodge and your don't like the WM.. ! Then don't go back.. !


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## Bill Lins

JEbeling said:


> NO.. ! and I think most here know my reasons.. !



Yes.. ! You just don't like Tommy Griffin.. !  ;-)


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## TCShelton

Bill_Lins77488 said:


> Yes.. ! You just don't like Tommy Griffin.. !  ;-)



LMAO!!!  Sounds like an intersting story.. ?


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## scottmh59

JEbeling said:


> NO.. ! and I think most here know my reasons.. !  !



what are your reasons...?...?


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## JEbeling

I think my reasons are clear... ! don't like Grand Lodge sitting around thinking of things for local lodges to do.. ! and telling them its good for them..? they treat local lodges they are too dumb to handle their own business...? some local lodges require an "A" cert. to run for the south.. and if thats their desire fine...! but the Grand Lodge should NOT tell them how to run their lodge.. ? 

And yes I believe Tommy was wrong on this..!!


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## Bigmel

I voted unsure. even though I think that the line officers should meet the proficency requirements listed above.  our lodge was chartered in 1888 and for many years it was the lodge instructor/instructors responsiablty to certify that the officers were proficent they signed a lodge form and announced in lodge the status of incoming officers.  and this worked very well.  in the last few years this requirement stopped working.  over the years we have had Excelent WM's, Good and Poor ones, however we have survived and in many cases grown stronger.  I think that it is not the GL requirement that bothers most brothers, it is the fact that someone outside our individual lodges are telling them what to do.  However, it is our fault as individuals because failed to do (inside our lodges) what we know is right what we should do.


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## Bill Lins

TCShelton said:


> LMAO!!!  Sounds like an intersting story.. ?



I'll tell you about it in Waco!


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## Gerald.Harris

JEbeling said:


> I think my reasons are clear... ! don't like Grand Lodge sitting around thinking of things for local lodges to do.. ! and telling them its good for them..? they treat local lodges they are too dumb to handle their own business...? some local lodges require an "A" cert. to run for the south.. and if thats their desire fine...! but the Grand Lodge should NOT tell them how to run their lodge.. ?
> 
> And yes I believe Tommy was wrong on this..!!



 It would appear that you were in the minority on this issue my Brother, since the members of the Grand Lodge of Texas ( who do run Masonry in Texas) voted to pass the recomendation. I for one do not believe that this issue says that the GLOT thinks the lodges are dumb, it simply states that if we are to continue on with masonry in this state in a manner that is recognizable with the rest of the craft across the nation, then the proper ritual of opening and closing should be folowed. This is not something personal, or directed towards one lodge. It is for all lodges in Texas.


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## JEbeling

Brother you are right.. ! it did pass.. ! but it doesn't change my view on Local Lodge Control... !


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## owls84

JEbeling said:


> Brother you are right.. ! it did pass.. ! but it doesn't change my view on Local Lodge Control... !



Then change it...! Pass a resolution and get people to back you...! There is another resolution to pull it back to the Local Lodges..! It to will more than likly go down in flames...! This is something OUR local Lodges passed...! And overwhemlingly support...! I for one feel if a Lodge can't open or close then there is no way Masonry can be taught by the officers...! Just because you are doing fundraisers and scholarships don't make you a Masonic Lodge...! Not everyone should get a turn in the East, it is an Honor not a right...!


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## Sirius

owls84 said:


> Not everyone should get a turn in the East, it is an Honor not a right...!



Seconded!


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## js4253

!!!...--I remember back when I was Worshipful Master....!!!???...I thought it was MY DUTY to be able to open and close Lodge...!!!...???----???...Even though I couldn't confer all the degrees....!!!???...IT WAS MY DUTY, RIGHT????????


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## Bill Lins

Y'all are SO BAD!  :9:


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## Gerald.Harris

JEbeling said:


> Brother you are right.. ! it did pass.. ! but it doesn't change my view on Local Lodge Control... !



  My brother , your views may never change regarding local lodge control,I for one hope that they never change  I don't think anyone is pushing that issue and it is not the issue we were discussing in this thread. 
 The question was should a WM hold a Certificate before he is installed in the East ? The question was not Should it be a requirement of the Grand Lodge to force a WM to hold a certificate before he is installed.  
 I personally believe that the wording in article 276 A - should have NEVER been changed several years ago , then there would not be all the controversy over the subject today. For many years, it was a requirement that the  WM shall be certified to open and close all of the lodges, and it was the duty of the installing officer to sign a Form, that attested to the fact that this was so. Most Installing officers had no idea whether a brother was certified or not and had a great problem signing the form. So the form was done away with and the wording was changed from shall to should. Once it became a recomendation instead of a requirement, many brothers  just quit trying to learn how to perform the ritual properly.


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## JEbeling

Well there are a couple of question with this.. ! who has the wisdom of Solomon to dictate to ALL lodges in the state of Texas should be done..? there are a lot of small lodges who are just hanging on..? others in far west Texas that are miles for each other, traveling miles to install brethern.. ! what do you do when you get there with a crowd waiting for installation and you tell him he is not ready..? don't think so...? This is a big state with all different types of lodges.. ! think we should understand that we are ALL brethern and they will do whats best for Masonary.. ! 

The other part is the Committee on "hope and change" .. ! when you talking about opening and closing a lodge.. ! then why the Lodge of Sorrow..? something they sat around and made up.. ! was a mason for years and never opened a lodge of sorrow...  ! our lodge open and closed every lodge the day of the service.. ! and this still can be done.. ! by the funeral master.. ! doesn't have to be done by the sitting master.. ! why the opening and closing of the EA and FC... ! something else they sat around made up.. if you can open a MM lodge and call off..? you don't have to open the EA or FC lodge by itself..?


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## Wingnut

Im pretty sure that at one time in some place all our rituals came about because someone sat around and made them up.  Id much rather open an EA lodge or a FC than to open a MM and call it off if I was going to be doing business in EA as most stated meetings are done in.  Or in the case of degrees just open up in that degree and get er done.

Why would an incoming WM wait until the day of installation to get certified?  At most of the lodges Im a member of a person knows a few years in advance when he is heading to the East.  I would think if person were serious about being the WM (and assume he did the LIFE or Wardens Retreat) he would do a little planning well ahead of installation day...!


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## scottmh59

Wingnut said:


> Im pretty sure that at one time in some place all our rituals came about because someone sat around and made them up.  Id much rather open an EA lodge or a FC than to open a MM and call it off if I was going to be doing business in EA as most stated meetings are done in.  Or in the case of degrees just open up in that degree and get er done.
> 
> Why would an incoming WM wait until the day of installation to get certified?  At most of the lodges Im a member of a person knows a few years in advance when he is heading to the East.  I would think if person were serious about being the WM (and assume he did the LIFE or Wardens Retreat) he would do a little planning well ahead of installation day...!



well put...!


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## Gerald.Harris

JEbeling said:


> Well there are a couple of question with this.. ! who has the wisdom of Solomon to dictate to ALL lodges in the state of Texas should be done..? there are a lot of small lodges who are just hanging on..? others in far west Texas that are miles for each other, traveling miles to install brethern.. ! what do you do when you get there with a crowd waiting for installation and you tell him he is not ready..? don't think so...? This is a big state with all different types of lodges.. ! think we should understand that we are ALL brethern and they will do whats best for Masonary.. !
> 
> The other part is the Committee on "hope and change" .. ! when you talking about opening and closing a lodge.. ! then why the Lodge of Sorrow..? something they sat around and made up.. ! was a mason for years and never opened a lodge of sorrow...  ! our lodge open and closed every lodge the day of the service.. ! and this still can be done.. ! by the funeral master.. ! doesn't have to be done by the sitting master.. ! why the opening and closing of the EA and FC... ! something else they sat around made up.. if you can open a MM lodge and call off..? you don't have to open the EA or FC lodge by itself..?



 NO ONE brother has the wisdom to do what is right for every lodge, BUT that is why the Grand Lodge is made up of thousands of brothers, just like you and me. We are all supposed to take a look at our brothers in the rural areas and the lodges in the metropolitan areas, and the lodges in-between. After we take a look , we are supposed to deliberate and try and come up with a system that is good for all of us. 
 I have traveled miles to install several brothers in the rural areas, and everyone I have installed could open and close all of the lodges.
 As for the Lodge of Sorrow, I have conducted well over 200 Masonic funerals in the last 30 years sadly enough, and it certainly is nice in the busy world I live and work in , to just show up at a grave site and conduct a funeral, without having to go to the lodge, open it, and then go back and close it once the service is concluded. The Lodge of Sorrow has been around since around 1981 or 82, and I for one love the system. What is wrong with making changes that are not derogatory to our fraternity and are in fact more conducive to making it possible for more brothers to be present.
 On the opening of EA and FC lodges without opening a Masters Lodge, when the proposal  first went to the Grand Lodge floor, I was not a proponent, but except for a couple of cases where a lodge or two are getting rusty at calling from labor to refreshment and back, I have not seen any other adverse effects.


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## jwardl

This will always be a split issue, as the lodge means different things to different people.

Some brothers are attracted to the esoteric aspects, the introspective exams, the deeper meanings of the ancient mysteries -- while for others, it is primarily about the fraternity, the brotherhood... and for some, it's basically a boys' club -- a place to get away from work, the family, responsibilities... and kick back for awhile.

IMHO, however, the esoteric aspects are what make us different from other fraternities, and we cannot afford to become too lax on this aspect. Without proficiency requirements, the work will, in time, fade away. How sad it is for lodges to exist in which no officers are proficient (advanced age is no excuse -- many seniors remain sharp), and the only way to properly hold lodge or even put on a degree is to seek outside help.

To that end, every worshipful master should hold, at a bare minimum, a "C" certificate -- and preferably an "A." Yes, this alone doesn't make a brother a good choice for WM. As has been mentioned, talents, time, capabilities, etc. should be heavily considered... but the one who leads the lodge should, above all others, be one to whom others can depend on to be a source of knowledge about our ceremonies.

As for those lodges currently comprised of older brothers who aren't proficient and aren't interested in learning (don't tell me they CAN'T), no... don't close them down. But rules could be enacted that require newly-initiated brothers, before being seated in the east, to hold a certificate. Unfair? Not at all.


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## Dave in Waco

jwardl said:


> This will always be a split issue, as the lodge means different things to different people.
> 
> Some brothers are attracted to the esoteric aspects, the introspective exams, the deeper meanings of the ancient mysteries -- while for others, it is primarily about the fraternity, the brotherhood... and for some, it's basically a boys' club -- a place to get away from work, the family, responsibilities... and kick back for awhile.
> 
> IMHO, however, the esoteric aspects are what make us different from other fraternities, and we cannot afford to become too lax on this aspect. Without proficiency requirements, the work will, in time, fade away. How sad it is for lodges to exist in which no officers are proficient (advanced age is no excuse -- many seniors remain sharp), and the only way to properly hold lodge or even put on a degree is to seek outside help.
> 
> To that end, every worshipful master should hold, at a bare minimum, a "C" certificate -- and preferably an "A." Yes, this alone doesn't make a brother a good choice for WM. As has been mentioned, talents, time, capabilities, etc. should be heavily considered... but the one who leads the lodge should, above all others, be one to whom others can depend on to be a source of knowledge about our ceremonies.
> 
> As for those lodges currently comprised of older brothers who aren't proficient and aren't interested in learning (don't tell me they CAN'T), no... don't close them down. But rules could be enacted that require newly-initiated brothers, before being seated in the east, to hold a certificate. Unfair? Not at all.



I would think it would be a benefit to the WM to hold at least a C.  He is already required to be certified in opening and closing all 4 lodges to be WM.  Of course that qualification has loosened a bit.  But he should be able to do the questions and answers too.

Personally, I would love to see all the officers be required to do their parts in degrees.  If your lodge places you in a chair, then that should be part of your duties in that chair IMO.


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## Beathard

If one can open and close all 4 lodges and answer questions from new members about the EA, FC & MMs trials, I don't think you need a certificate to be an officer. But if you know all of this why wouldn't you get a certificate. 

Remember that our newest members look up to the key officers as THE EXAMPLES of the perfect masons. When we cant open and close the lodge or answer their questions we destroy their image of masonry before the understand enough to travel independently. 

I believe we owe it to our newest brothers to be proficient. If you do not want to dedicate the time to become proficient, support the lodge with labors other than that of an officer.


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## jwardl

Well said, brother.


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## Benjamin Baxter

I agree on the recommended


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## tom268

What is tested in a certification process? How are the grades determined?


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## Beathard

In Texas the C certificate requires the questions and answers from all three degrees, the Tilers Oath, and opening and closing of all lodges. The B certificate adds all degree work except the lectures. The A certificate adds the 3 lectures.

  The exams are verbal and given by a member of the grand lodge committee on work. One must be reasonably proficient to pass.

In Texas the WM is supposed to be proficient in opening and closing the lodges. All masons are supposed to know the questions and answers from the trial lectures and the tilers oath. I don't understand why officers are not required to have a C certificate.


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## tom268

Ah, interesting. That is very much memo-work for an A, I believe. I don't know the US degrees, but if they are similar to the english Emulation work, it is very much text. I agree, that at least a C certificate sounds reasonable, maybe with special dispensation for lodges in dire situations.


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## Beathard

Agreed.


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## jwhoff

JTM said:


> some people will never be good ritualists, but are good leaders.


 
That's a very sound argument.  The skills are mutual exclusive.  Of course, it would be a nice package for any master.


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## Bill Lins

jwhoff said:


> That's a very sound argument.  The skills are mutual exclusive.


 
I have to disagree here. To begin with, any Brother who was able to learn the Q&A's should be capable of learning the opening & closing ritual- it's not nearly as extensive. Secondly, a Brother who will not learn to perform the duties of his office, such as opening & closing his Lodge in a proficient manner is not, IMHO, demonstrating leadership. Can a Brother handle the administrative functions of the office of WM without being competent in the ritual? Sure. Does that make him a "leader"? Absolutely not.


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## jwhoff

I was a pretty good basketball player in high school. But my best footwork was serving a "place" under a master who never opened or closed the same way ... in 22 chances.  It sure kept you on your toes.  But I have also served under two masters who, for whatever reason, knew their work and put degrees on well but didn't possess certifications.  One was a very good leader and the other so-so.  I understand and agree with your premise.  It would show more leadership to hold a certificate.


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## JJones

My opinion is by the time a brother becomes Worshipful Master he should be proficient enough in the work to obtain a certificate anyhow.  I don't think it should be required...but assuming a lodge is electing the most capable brother that's eligible I would hope that means the WM elect would be capable of getting a C certificate at least.



> there are other reasons to install a worshipful master than just ritual.
> 
> some people will never be good ritualists, but are good leaders.



Amen, there's far, far, more to it than just that...a fact with is often overlooked I think.  Still, I'm not sure it matters how sharp your leadership skills are if you can't even open and close the lodge proficiently.  I think if it's someones goal to become WM then they at least owe it to themselves and their lodge to become familiar with the ritual.  I also think it's fair to say that you don't have to be perfect at it, we're only human, but I don't think they are looking for perfection when it's time to certify either.


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## tomasball

Since when does being able to open and close a lodge make you a ritualist?  Memorization is learning.  If you can't learn, then there's something wrong with you.


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## Beathard

We just had an 80 year old learn the fellowcraft lecture and give it. You can do it at any age.


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## jwhoff

Still though.  That's impressive Brother Beathard. Eighty years old, WOW!


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## Beathard

After the degree, on the way down the stairs, he said that should put an end to those 60 year olds saying they're too old to memorize the work. I just had to smile.


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## Bill Lins

We have a Brother who, at the age of 82, earned his first "A" certificate. He got his 65 Year pin last year.


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## jwhoff

So mote it be!


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## Cigarzan

_Should_ he hold a certificate?  Sure.  Should he be _required_ to hold a certificate?  Naw.


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## otherstar

I don't think officers should be required to know any more than be able to open and close the Lodge. Optimally, they should at least have a "C" certificate. Early in my masonic career, my home lodge had a WM who could do little more ritual than open and close (and he had his lapses at first), but he was a fine leader and had a very good year in the East. Being a good ritualist and a good leader are not related. I've known good leaders who were good ritualists, good leaders who were not good ritualists, bad leaders who were good ritualists, and bad leaders who were bad ritualists. I would classify being a ritualist as one of those "external qualifications" we hear about.


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## Mac

I agree with that sentiment.  I've met plenty of men, ritualist and non, who couldn't lead their way out of a paper sack!  Hopefully the head of your Lodge has a good mix of ritual ability and actual leadership, but if I had to pick one... I'd gladly prompt the good leader of men for a year rather than suffer through a bad year where our only achievement was not losing points on a graded visit.


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## SeeKer.mm

Sirius said:


> While I do think a Master should at least have a 'c', I don't think a requirement for it should be required. 'Recommended' would work. I'm always shy of GL requiring anything.
> 
> Good question, Bro Blake.



agreed


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## Brent Heilman

Sometimes I think that the one requirement that should be in place is that they want to be in a chair and care about doing the best job they can. We have one Brother that sits in a chair who doesn't really seem to care about much of anything other than making it to the East and moving on so he can be called Past Master. The sad thing is that I have as of yet voted for him to be in a chair. I think that someone who puts forth some effort and seems to truly want to be there should be filling the role. 

As to the poll question, I think that it should be highly recommended to hold at least a "C" certificate, but I am cautious of requiring one.


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## jwhoff

Personally, I obtained one the year before and this year that I am in the East.

But can't say I remember anything in there about how to lead a group of men offering their time freely who don't always have the same opinions about everything but can only be considered good men doing their best.  Don't remember anything about that in the certification.

Therefore, I agree, a C Cert is good but should not be required.  I do think Grand Lodge got it right when they decided that officers setting at stations should know how to open and close the four lodges.


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## Mac

Absolutely a great way to look at it, brother!  Well said.


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