# Give it to me straight



## Awoken (Jul 7, 2018)

Hi, I'm new to this board.

I have spoken with multiple masons who tell me completely different things and when I go to deep on them because I am not asleep, they look awfully paranoid and say they can't talk about it anymore. The veil is lifting, my 3rd eye is open, I see things for what they are and understand there's a completely different world in reality than what most people actually know to be true. Will I be able to go up financially in this world if I join and will I be able to unlock the ancient knowledge I already have some of and go farther down the rabbit hole? I already know the answers to both of those questions is yes but my main one is can I do this while keeping my integrity and not selling out? Will I be able to do this and still be the same good-hearted caring, loving person I am now? If it means compromising myself in any way then I will never join and would rather stay poor with less knowledge. I have no interest in hearing a low level masons response to this because you guys are being totally lied to by the 32nd and 33rd degrees and have no clue. I also have no interest in the high levels who will be dishonest with me on their answer because as I said the veil is lifting and the collective consciousness is waking up to the BS and there is zero you can do to stop that.

Thanks


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## Bro. Stewart P.M. (Jul 7, 2018)

Well, as a Mason, Past Master, 32nd Degree Scottish Rite Mason, and Templar Knight (York Rite) I can tell you this with 100% confidence... You will not benefit financially from Masonry. You will unlock a plethora of ancient knowledge during your journey, if you are willing to learn. I can also tell you that the tone of your statement relating to “low level Masons” will be and was taken as insulting. It is well known to all true Masons that the 3rd Degree is in fact the highest degree that can be earned at any point along out journey, and if that is what you refer to as “low level” then you are completely under informed.

Masonry isn’t about self benefit other than that of Light or knowledge, and Brotherhood of fellow man. It is not about wealth of money. To insinuate such completely disregards our initial lessons learned as Apprentice and Fellow.

You asked for truth. Here you have it. I am quite certain that other enlightened Brothers will follow this introduction.


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## coachn (Jul 7, 2018)

Awoken said:


> Hi, I'm new to this board.


Welcome!


Awoken said:


> I have spoken with multiple masons who tell me completely different things and when I go to deep on them because I am not asleep, they look awfully paranoid and say they can't talk about it anymore.


It could be because you're talking non-sense... just a thought...


Awoken said:


> The veil is lifting, my 3rd eye is open, I see things for what they are and understand there's a completely different world in reality than what most people actually know to be true.


Kudos!


Awoken said:


> Will I be able to go up financially in this world if I join ...


Join what?  Freemasonry?  I hope you have a day job...  Freemasonic activities are not cheap, they are usually a time sponge and your only benefit is pal-ing around with good men.


Awoken said:


> ...and will I be able to unlock the ancient knowledge


Ancient knowledge like how to roast enough pigs to make a profitable fundraising?


Awoken said:


> ...I already have some of and go farther down the rabbit hole?


If you have any of that ancient knowledge, I hope some of it is common sense enough to know better than to join thinking you're going to learn anything other than how not to fall asleep at business meetings.


Awoken said:


> I already know the answers to both of those questions is yes...


Someone gave you the wrong answers dude!


Awoken said:


> ...but my main one is can I do this while keeping my integrity and not selling out?


Only if you have it to begin with. That being said, if you have a screw loose, Freemasonry will not tighten it.


Awoken said:


> Will I be able to do this and still be the same good-hearted caring, loving person I am now?


If you mean by "do this" to mean "join, engage and contribute", then "yes".


Awoken said:


> If it means compromising myself in any way then I will never join


Rest assured, if you're sane when you come in, the likelihood of you remaining sane, even when faced with some of the nutcases that try to join, you should remain fairly sane over time.  Your mileage may vary.


Awoken said:


> ...and would rather stay poor with less knowledge.


Don't expect to gain any knowledge dude.  The lodge is a wasteland and the only thing it will offer to you is a map to the gold, but not the gold itself.  Metaphorically speaking of course.


Awoken said:


> I have no interest in hearing a low level masons response to this because you guys are being totally lied to by the 32nd and 33rd degrees and have no clue.


As a 32nd degree mason I can assure you that the only lies you shall encounter are the ones you'll tell yourself about the fraternity; much like that last statement about being lied to.  Say that enough and you'll likely find yourself alone and scratching your head wondering why your lie is not matching the reality.


Awoken said:


> I also have no interest in the high levels who will be dishonest with me on their answer


I think you might want to try a different group dude.  Your baggage will certainly not fit through the door if you try to bring it in with you.


Awoken said:


> ...because as I said the veil is lifting and the collective consciousness is waking up to the BS and there is zero you can do to stop that.


You're assuming a lot here.  I'll not pick it apart though.  Too many directions and not enough time to waste.


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## Warrior1256 (Jul 7, 2018)

In my opinion....TROLL ALERT!!!! Total non-sense.


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## Bro. Stewart P.M. (Jul 7, 2018)

And it is my pleasure to introduce to you, coachn!


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## Awoken (Jul 7, 2018)

I'm really not trolling. I've just heard so many conflicting things about freemasonry and been programmed to think it's negative. Also certain masons have told me things that made me very wary as well. I'm just trying to figure it out. Thank you guys for taking the time to respond.


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## Awoken (Jul 7, 2018)

Is it ok if I message somebody 1 on 1 to ask some questions about masonry so I can try to figure it out?


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## Bro. Stewart P.M. (Jul 7, 2018)

Awoken said:


> I'm really not trolling. I've just heard so many conflicting things about freemasonry and been programmed to think it's negative. Also certain masons have told me things that made me very wary as well. I'm just trying to figure it out. Thank you guys for taking the time to respond.



In all seriousness. I would better check the reliability your sources of information. This site is loaded with truth, all of it is public knowledge. You want truth, you can find it here.

Tread lightly, listen fully. You’ll learn much.


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## Awoken (Jul 7, 2018)

Ok thanks I appreciate that. I really wasn't trying to come off hostile I just have had a lot of people in my ear lately tell me freemasonry is evil and stuff and I kind of let it get to me I guess. After I had some interest people started judging me and saying I shouldn't and telling me all kinds of different things. I'll take your advice and search around on the site. I plan on going to one of the meetups around my area also so they should be able to answer some questions too.


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## Bro. Stewart P.M. (Jul 7, 2018)

Awoken said:


> Is it ok if I message somebody 1 on 1 to ask some questions about masonry so I can try to figure it out?



It is okay to question. You won’t find out more privately than publicly. The Fraternity doesn’t work that way. We actually like answering what we are able to. In fact I’d encourage the questions in public forum for the sole reason of allowing a more well versed Brother to answer the question. Contrary to popular belief and opinion, one of us individually can’t possibly hold all the Masonic information in the world. Collectively, we do.

Ask away. I am quite certain that at this stage in this conversation that no one will laugh at your questions as long as they are serious and honest. We’ve nothing to hide.

By the way, welcome to the Forum.


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## MarkR (Jul 8, 2018)

Awoken said:


> I have no interest in hearing a low level masons response to this because you guys are being totally lied to by the 32nd and 33rd degrees and have no clue. I also have no interest in the high levels who will be dishonest with me on their answer because as I said the veil is lifting and the collective consciousness is waking up to the BS and there is zero you can do to stop that.


So who do you want to hear from, if the "low-level Masons" have no clue, and the "high-levels" will be dishonest with you, that leaves . . . exactly no one to answer you.

If you are expecting to "go up financially" as a result of Freemasonry, you're both delusional and seeking involvement for precisely the wrong reason.


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## hfmm97 (Jul 8, 2018)

Awoken said:


> Hi, I'm new to this board.
> 
> I have spoken with multiple masons who tell me completely different things and when I go to deep on them because I am not asleep, they look awfully paranoid and say they can't talk about it anymore. The veil is lifting, my 3rd eye is open, I see things for what they are and understand there's a completely different world in reality than what most people actually know to be true. Will I be able to go up financially in this world if I join and will I be able to unlock the ancient knowledge I already have some of and go farther down the rabbit hole? I already know the answers to both of those questions is yes but my main one is can I do this while keeping my integrity and not selling out? Will I be able to do this and still be the same good-hearted caring, loving person I am now? If it means compromising myself in any way then I will never join and would rather stay poor with less knowledge. I have no interest in hearing a low level masons response to this because you guys are being totally lied to by the 32nd and 33rd degrees and have no clue. I also have no interest in the high levels who will be dishonest with me on their answer because as I said the veil is lifting and the collective consciousness is waking up to the BS and there is zero you can do to stop that.
> 
> Thanks



Awoken, I can give you my PERSONAL opinions as a man who has been honored to be a Freemason for over 20 years:

1. Anybody can call themselves a Mason, that doesn’t mean they are truly so: how do you know they were bona fide and/or had a negative experience (people in any group can be mean)?

2. Anyone looking to better his financial situation by joining Freemasonry is a.) wasting his time and b.) if he gives this as a reason for joining, he will almost always be rejected for membership. If anything, Masonry has certain costs associated with joining and being a member of a lodge (initiation fees, application fees, charitable contributions, yearly dues etc).

3. I have gone through the 32nd degree Scottish Rite Mason-what most people outside the fraternal organization don’t understand is that the highest degree in Masonry is the 3rd degree and that 32nd degree/33rd degree are still subject to the Grand Master of the particular state, territory, region or nation and it is my understanding that theoretically the only requirement to be Grand Master is to be a 3rd degree Mason (in terms of degrees, there may be required positions a Grand Master must hold). 33rd degree Scottish Rite Mason honors are given to those 32nd degree Scottish Rite Masons who have distinguished themselves by exceptional service to Freemasonry or to the world at large after MANY years of service.

4. You really seem confused (and most non-Masons are) about 32nd and 33rd degree Scottish Rite Masons. These degrees, as any beyond the 3rd degree, are EXTRA-NOT HIGHER degrees and these are OPTIONAL degrees.

5. A 3rd degree Grandmaster has power over all Masonic organizations related to his Grand Lodge in his territorial jurisdiction. This can include shutting down certain Masonic organizations such as youth groups that do not comply with the policies set forth by the Grand Lodge. Of course, from a practical point of view by the time a Freemason becomes a Grandmaster, he will have many Masonic honors bestowed upon him.

6. Not familiar with this 3rd eye business: sounds like something studied in specific metaphysical traditions - I have not seen this concept as a specific Masonic teaching.

7. I assume (hope) that you have come to this forum in good faith-please remember that Freemasons are a family and please consider being as courteous to the Freemason family as you would be to the family of someone outside your immediate family that you respect. 

8. Thank you for giving me the opportunity to give you my personal opinions on Freemasonry: I wish you nothing but the best in whatever comes your way in life  I invite you to come down to meet the brothers at a true and bona fide lodge (there do exist spurious and irregular groups that call themselves “Masons”-avoid  these): as I think that you are a fair-minded individual let the brothers on the Forum know and the admins can direct you to the legitimate Freemason lodges in your area.


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## hfmm97 (Jul 8, 2018)

Awoken: It’s late (or early) for me so I missed your statement about “paranoid” Masons-there are aspects about Freemasonry which we can discuss with the public at large and other aspects of Freemasonry that are limited to the membership (as part of our becoming members, we have taken certain obligations and given our word).
Secrets: The biggest Masonic secret is-
We make good men better.


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## Warrior1256 (Jul 8, 2018)

MarkR said:


> So who do you want to hear from, if the "low-level Masons" have no clue, and the "high-levels" will be dishonest with you, that leaves . . . exactly no one to answer you.


Lol! Exactly.


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## coachn (Jul 8, 2018)

Awoken said:


> Is it ok if I message somebody 1 on 1 to ask some questions about masonry so I can try to figure it out?


You could message someone, but you're not going to get any more from that path than if you posted it here.  

BTW - In your question is a problematic mindset:  You seriously believe that you're going to get different responses to your questions if it's answered privately.  _This tells me that you're harboring a strong and unspoken mistrust and no matter what path you take, that mistrust will negatively affect all that you hear/read/receive/get/glean/understand.
_
There's also a second problematic mindset here.  You believe you can figure Freemasonry out.  I can assure you that _you won't do that as long as you're... 
1) Harboring anything that has you seeing it for what it isn't, 
2) Believing without question either the society's dogma or the delusional anti-masonic propaganda, and 
3) Assuming you're going to get anything from belonging other than opportunities to improve and/or overextend yourself, bore yourself silly at business meetings and eat lots o' fried fish (at a cost)._


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## Warrior1256 (Jul 8, 2018)

coachn said:


> ou believe you can figure Freemasonry out. I can assure you that _you won't do that as long as you're...
> 1) Harboring anything that has you seeing it for what it isn't,
> 2) Believing without question either the society's dogma or the delusional anti-masonic propaganda, and
> 3) Assuming you're going to get anything from belonging other than opportunities to improve and/or overextend yourself, bore yourself silly at business meetings and eat lots o' fried fish (at a cost)._


TRUE!


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## David612 (Jul 8, 2018)

I hope you take the time to discover what the fraternaty offers if you are indeed a man meeting our criteria for entry.
Additionally it would be of benefit to humble yourself a little when asking for knowledge, it’s tragic to see a man who professes to have had the veil lifted and his third eye opened and yet be so blind as to presume to know about an organisation he is not familiar with.
You do not know what lies through the west gate- regardless of the information you have gathered, what lies to the east can not be exposed by sensational documentaries and propaganda nor can it be written to satisfy the meaning- all that you find is a veil- you may touch onto our mysteries but are blind to them- this I assure you.


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## Awoken (Jul 8, 2018)

David612 said:


> I hope you take the time to discover what the fraternaty offers if you are indeed a man meeting our criteria for entry.
> Additionally it would be of benefit to humble yourself a little when asking for knowledge, it’s tragic to see a man who professes to have had the veil lifted and his third eye opened and yet be so blind as to presume to know about an organisation he is not familiar with.
> You do not know what lies through the west gate- regardless of the information you have gathered, what lies to the east can not be exposed by sensational documentaries and propaganda nor can it be written to satisfy the meaning- all that you find is a veil- you may touch onto our mysteries but are blind to them- this I assure you.


That taste of the mysterious has me wanting more and my intuition is  telling me to go deeper and deeper. I know I haven't scratched the surface, that's why I'm interested in joining because I know I'll be able to.


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## hfmm97 (Jul 8, 2018)

Awoken, think (and feel) and answer these questions: 1.) Why do you want to be a mason and 2.) most importantly how can you contribute to the lodge (I’m not speaking from a monetary sense) in terms of service? 

Good answers to these questions are not fill-in-the-blank, or multiple choice: I like to think of the answers to these questions as a sort of dialog between the candidate and the admissions committee.

It takes a good amount of resources to support a candidate through his progression from non-Mason to Master Mason.
This is true both from the perspective of the candidate (who invests time and money in joining and the lodge which also invests mostly the time of the brothers putting on the degrees) I think that candidates should be sincere and enter into the process in good faith.
Your last statement is a bit optimistic, seeing as how at least in Texas a candidate must be deemed worthy to submit  a petition (with references), undergo an investigation (including background check and interviews with lodge brothers) and finally must be voted upon.


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## hfmm97 (Jul 8, 2018)

Awoken said:


> Is it ok if I message somebody 1 on 1 to ask some questions about masonry so I can try to figure it out?



You can message me if you like....



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## David612 (Jul 9, 2018)

Awoken said:


> I'm interested in joining because I know I'll be able to.


Keep in mind that acceptance to the Fraternity is not a right or sure thing afforded any man.
The most you can hope for is to patition, be candid and see IF the lodge will have you- to join is a privilege.


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## hfmm97 (Jul 9, 2018)

Used the wrong word: not “optimistic” - PRESUMPTUOUS!


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## Warrior1256 (Jul 9, 2018)

David612 said:


> Keep in mind that acceptance to the Fraternity is not a right or sure thing afforded any man.
> The most you can hope for is to patition, be candid and see IF the lodge will have you- to join is a privilege.


Very true!


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## Awoken (Jul 9, 2018)

David612 said:


> Keep in mind that acceptance to the Fraternity is not a right or sure thing afforded any man.
> The most you can hope for is to patition, be candid and see IF the lodge will have you- to join is a privilege.


When I said Ill be able to I meant I know I'll be able to scratch the surface and go deeper into the knowledge. I was replying to someone who said I didn't know anything about the ancient truths. I was not implying I know for sure I'll become a mason.


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## David612 (Jul 9, 2018)

Awoken said:


> When I said Ill be able to I meant I know I'll be able to scratch the surface and go deeper into the knowledge. I was replying to someone who said I didn't know anything about the ancient truths. I was not implying I know for sure I'll become a mason.


Fair enough, can be hard to convey tone and inflection via text.
Can I give you advise I insist you take to heart- Abandon the notion on low and high ranking Masons, in practice there is no degree higher than the third, every degree numerically higher is in reality a lateral move in terms of “rank” as it isn’t relevant to the Blue lodge but rather side orders you may or may not be qualified to join, i for example will never be able to claim the rank of 32 or 33 as in my area the only Scottish rite requires a trinitarian Christian faith- I cannot profess this, as men who meet on the level “rank” holds no benefit in terms of the ability to reap the benefits of freemasonry.
I myself am a fellowcraft- in many US constitutions I would have achieved this rank on my second meeting, Here people take months or years between degrees- at my lodge I’m still exposed to more light than I can process every meeting.


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## Bro Book (Jul 9, 2018)

Good and wholesome responses Brothers.

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## hfmm97 (Jul 10, 2018)

Bro Book-Thanks for your input: I confirmed with a Masonic brother from South America that early in their Masonic careers they are required to do research into different Masonic and non-Masonic subjects and present papers in front of their respective lodges (like research lodges in the USA and elsewhere) in addition to the memory work of each degree-and it can take over 3 years to do the work to be raised to the sublime degree of a Master Mason


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## Warrior1256 (Jul 10, 2018)

hfmm97 said:


> I confirmed with a Masonic brother from South America that early in their Masonic careers they are required to do research into different Masonic and non-Masonic subjects and present papers in front of their respective lodges (like research lodges in the USA and elsewhere) in addition to the memory work of each degree-and it can take over 3 years to do the work to be raised to the sublime degree of a Master Mason


Wow! Obviously dedicated people!


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## hfmm97 (Jul 10, 2018)

This same brother from South America told me that rarely would a lodge be more than sixty (60) brothers.


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## hfmm97 (Jul 10, 2018)

Dress code is minimum black jacket, tie, pants and shoes with white shirt and gloves and an apron that is similar to some British/Canadian lodges (azure trimmed with rosettes for Master Mason)


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## Warrior1256 (Jul 10, 2018)

hfmm97 said:


> Dress code is minimum black jacket, tie, pants and shoes with white shirt and gloves and an apron that is similar to some British/Canadian lodges (azure trimmed with rosettes for Master Mason)


Cool, I like it!


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## jermy Bell (Jul 14, 2018)

Did I miss something?


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## Warrior1256 (Jul 14, 2018)

jermy Bell said:


> Did I miss something?


Lol....a lot. Quite a lively discussion went on here.


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