# widows son



## jvarnell (Sep 29, 2012)

I am at the bikes blue and bbq in fayetville ar and and met some widows sons member. They held. To the obligations and said they did not understand the texas GoL stance.  They did not have a hotie on there patch and did not look like 1%ers.  So. Is what what the GoL thinks bout them right?


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## widows son (Sep 29, 2012)

Is that the Masonic biker group? One of the brothers in my lodge rides and is interested in join a widows son group. I think it's bad ass LOL


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## California Master (Sep 29, 2012)

I helped organize our chapter of the Masonic Widow's Sons club. It is Masons riding with Masons. We have a national organization with specific by-laws. Not surprising they resemble lodge by-laws. We are recognized in all jurisdictions. However, some chapters got themselves into trouble and have caused some grand lodges to exclude them. I'm thinking that Texas is one. The problem arose when these motorcycle clubs decided to hold ritual degrees in order to join the Widow's Sons. Not a very smart idea! We have a chapter in the bay area of California that is being watched by the Grand Master for doing this as well. They have been told to stop and I think that they were smart enough to stop.

Our chapter in this area is called the Shasta Craftsmen. Most chapters take names associated in some way with our Masonic history. For instance, names such as Brazen Pillars and Brothers of the 3rd Degree are just a few. Our purpose is to support our lodges and especially, our widows. We can do poker runs and hold raffles and so forth to raise money for our lodges and widows. Our chapter organized in January of this year. We currently have 18 members. We enjoy motorcycles and each other. We have 4 stated meetings per year and election of officers in November.

All in all, we take our visibility and actions very seriously and we would never do anything to tarnish our reputation as Masons or Widow's Sons.


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## chrmc (Sep 29, 2012)

There is a longer discussion on this topic here, just for your info. http://www.masonsoftexas.com/showthread.php?15084-The-Widow-s-Sons


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## widows son (Sep 29, 2012)

Sounds awesome, although I'm confused.  You said these grand lodges are excluding these widows sons chapters because they were performing rituals to get into the widows sons? Just not sure if I read that right


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## California Master (Sep 29, 2012)

widows son said:


> Sounds awesome, although I'm confused.  You said these grand lodges are excluding these widows sons chapters because they were performing rituals to get into the widows sons? Just not sure if I read that right



That is exactly what I am saying. As you know there are only the 3 degrees of Masonry approved by Grand Lodges.....not counting the approved York and Scottish Rite degrees. Those Widow's Sons were making up their own ritual to become a member. We must all remember that we are beholding to our respective Grand Lodges. We meet only at the descretion and approval of Grand Lodge. Independant rituals cannot be tolerated.


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## Bro. Stewart P.M. (Sep 30, 2012)

chrmc said:


> There is a longer discussion on this topic here, just for your info. http://www.masonsoftexas.com/showthread.php?15084-The-Widow-s-Sons



Thank you good Sir! You are correct, there is already a Long running discussion on this topic here at this site...


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## widows son (Sep 30, 2012)

Got it. Makes sense tho, I've heard of them parking out in a field with their bikes in a circle perform the 3 degrees of craft lodge, but
Not making up rituals


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## jvarnell (Sep 30, 2012)

chrmc said:


> There is a longer discussion on this topic here, just for your info. http://www.masonsoftexas.com/showthread.php?15084-The-Widow-s-Sons


  This is why I started this new thread because the GoL of Texas in 2008 upout a edict that I would hope would be changed.


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## jvarnell (Sep 30, 2012)

I meet a totle of  deferent chapters at Blues bikes and BBQ in AR  none said there was any thing else except be a Mason.  Some except all three degrees and some just MM.  There also was a thread here that ask how to make Masonery more atractive on it to let EA's and FC's ride with MM and learn more about being a mason.  After meeting these guy the weekend I hope the GoL will review the Widow son RC.  The FMRC will only except MM and I have never meet a single one of them at any event.


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## Bill Lins (Sep 30, 2012)

jvarnell said:


> I meet a totle of  deferent chapters at Blues bikes and BBQ in AR  none said there was any thing else except be a Mason.  Some except all three degrees and some just MM.



Bro. Varnell- it doesn't matter what the "chapter" does or does not allow. GLoT law prohibits any member from joining any group predicating membership upon being a Mason until he not only has been raised a Master Mason, but also has been judged proficient in the MM work.

*Art. 439 (3)   Examination in Master's Degree* 

"It shall be unlawful and shall constitute a Masonic disciplinary violation for a Brother who has not passed his examination for proficiency in the Master’s Degree to apply for or receive membership or any degree in any rite, body, order or organization in which membership is predicated upon Masonic affiliation."

Even if the "Widow's Sons" were approved for Masonic membership in Texas, EAs, FCs, & MMs who had not yet turned in their work could not join the group.


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## jvarnell (Oct 1, 2012)

Bill_Lins77488 said:


> Bro. Varnell- it doesn't matter what the "chapter" does or does not allow. GLoT law prohibits any member from joining any group predicating membership upon being a Mason until he not only has been raised a Master Mason, but also has been judged proficient in the MM work.
> 
> *Art. 439 (3) Examination in Master's Degree*
> 
> ...



The Widow Son members I meet were truly perplexed on what happend at the GLoT.  I am not trying to get y'all to except my ideas in any of the threads I have comented on, I am trying to understand and see if anyone has the same thoughts as I do.

So I want to say.

I know what you are saying but do you want more people to start the path of the craft or just say why is our membership down.  Do you think that the GLoT could see that an orginaztions like the widow son allowing EA's and FC's to be top rocker members and not being a full patched meber till they are a MM.

In most MC when you are a prospect you wear the top rocker (the club name) and maybe the bottom rocker (location)  with out the full center patch untill being excepted as what is called a full patch member (MM).

Also I have heard that the GLoT will re-hear the wideos son petition this year is that true and should who ever is the petitioner could they bring attestation from the GL'es that have the Widow son in good graces.


I know I have only just had my FC degree and not turend in my proficiency yet but that is like joining any MC/RC/RA you one of them while prove yourself before becomming a full patched member but you are still apart of the group.

Here is a WS patch setup and you could see how it would work.  EA and FC would ware the top and botom rockers and after becomming a MM they can ware the big center patches.


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## Ed Nelson (Oct 1, 2012)

Your idea of "prospecting" follows the setup of an outlaw motorcycle club...the Widows Sons are a motorcycle riding group, and are much less formal about membership and patches, although we do have specific requirements for membership eligibility.

My Chapter (Shasta Craftsmen, Northern California) wear a different patch than the one you posted as the back piece, but we also wear a round square and compass patch above that. It's that Square and Compass patch that unites us in masonry, not the Widows Sons patch (thank you Bro. Moffet for that).

We do not "earn" our patches and rockers in stages like an outlaw  club...we buy them and sew them on. It's that Master Mason Degree that  binds our members in fellowship. If someone wants to join just to have a  fancy backpatch, then they are joining for the wrong reason.

Membership should be clear in the Grand Lodge's eyes. Master Mason only if you want the GL to give their blessing as a full Masonic organization. We do allow associate members who are not riding members, but who are interested in helping and supporting the mission of the Chapter (that was the issue for the Grand Lodge of Texas), but Associate Members do not (and should not) wear the patches or participate as a full member does as far as riding and voting (they don't ride and they don't vote).


I support having Entered Apprentices and Fellowcraft who ride motorcycles to come ride along with the Chapter as guests and even attend the meetings as non-paying, non-voting visitor of they wish. This gives them an incentive to get themselves to the 3rd degree and join to become a full member. Heck, even a non-mason guest should be invited...it may spark an interest in masonry. Once they get their 3rd degree, they are invited to join  the Widows Sons as a member. No need to do a prospect program with one or two patches and complicate matters.


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## jvarnell (Oct 1, 2012)

Ed Nelson said:


> Your idea of "prospecting" follows the setup of an outlaw motorcycle club...the Widows Sons are a motorcycle riding group, and are much less formal about membership and patches, although we do have specific requirements for membership eligibility.
> 
> My Chapter (Shasta Craftsmen, Northern California) wear a different patch than the one you posted as the back piece, but we also wear a round square and compass patch above that. It's that Square and Compass patch that unites us in masonry, not the Widows Sons patch (thank you Bro. Moffet for that).
> 
> ...




I understand all of that.  Its like the Outlaw groups but the problem I am trying to fix is that the GLoT has a problem with EA's and FC's being members of a MC/RC/RA of masions.  The EA's and FC's need a since of beloning but the way thing are setup some don't untill a year after potisining.  I want to belong to eather of these Groups FMRC or Widows Son and some states include EA's and FC's more than others in the Widows Son but not at all in the FMRC.   I have sean and meet many Widow Son members but have found no FMRC members that will even tell me where they meet. 

So I think as I progress through the degrees I would like to get to know and "belong" to a group that trys to be sociable to those of a lesser degree like the Widows Son.   What I was saying above was a way for that can happen where the GLoT and the MC/RC/RA could know who was of what degree I thought this would help.  

But you do earn your patch by becoming a MM because you don't belong to the MC/RC/RA untill then.

If you go the prospect rought you will see that they belong but in there non-voting.  If you don't do that you get what you have now men that are working through the degrees that don't have the since of beloning to anything untill they are a MM.


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## Bill Lins (Oct 1, 2012)

jvarnell said:


> Do you think that the GLoT could see that an orginaztions like the widow son allowing EA's and FC's to be top rocker members and not being a full patched meber till they are a MM.



No. Besides the fact that most of the members of the Grand Lodge are not exactly thrilled that some of us ride, they are not about to make a special exception for one RC and not allow the same privilege for the Scottish and York Rites, much less the Shrine.



jvarnell said:


> Also I have heard that the GLoT will re-hear the wideos son petition this year is that true



We won't know until the book with the proposed Resolutions to be considered @ Grand Lodge is distributed to the Lodges- usually happens in late October or early November.



jvarnell said:


> who ever is the petitioner could they bring attestation from the GL'es that have the Widow son in good graces.



They could. Whether or not it would make any difference is not known.


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## jvarnell (Oct 2, 2012)

Bill_Lins77488,

Do you think any of the officers of the GLoT read any of these threads?  I would like to think that they listen to the frustrations of new masons and think about them.


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## widows son (Oct 2, 2012)

Is it true they park in a field at night in a field and perform the craft degrees


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## eagle1966 (Oct 3, 2012)

Many Texas Lodges perform outdoor degrees even the GofT at times!  Does this answer your question?


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## widows son (Oct 3, 2012)

Not in particular to the widows sons


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## California Master (Oct 4, 2012)

Ed Nelson said:


> Your idea of "prospecting" follows the setup of an outlaw motorcycle club...the Widows Sons are a motorcycle riding group, and are much less formal about membership and patches, although we do have specific requirements for membership eligibility.
> 
> My Chapter (Shasta Craftsmen, Northern California) wear a different patch than the one you posted as the back piece, but we also wear a round square and compass patch above that. It's that Square and Compass patch that unites us in masonry, not the Widows Sons patch (thank you Bro. Moffet for that).
> 
> ...



You are absolutely correct Brother Ed. Good to see you commenting on this thread. For everyone else, Brother Nelson and I belong to the Shasta Craftsmen. He's a good Brother and and a good Mason. I'm proud to ride with him.


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