# The hidden mysteries !



## JonnyMM (Mar 15, 2017)

I've was raised to MM well over a year now and continue my studies into all aspects of the craft. During my fellow craft degree I was instructed to study the "hidden mysteries of nature and science" I'm afraid that instruction provided me with more questions than answers...the craft has me in total awe of the knowledge that exists within our ranks. I'm lucky to have some very long standing and high ranking masons in my lodge. Just words of advice for anyone who found themselves in the same situation...hang on in there! The blue lodge is fascinating...what I've learned has totally changed my perspective on many things. I look forward to progressing into the Royal Arch and to expand my knowledge....the craft is a wonderful thing and exceeded all my expectations.   


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## JonnyMM (Mar 15, 2017)

That's if I can win my wife round 


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## coachn (Mar 15, 2017)

JonnyMM said:


> ...During my fellow craft degree I was instructed to study the "hidden mysteries of nature and science" I'm afraid that instruction provided me with more questions than answers...


Yep, and if you start to do this without laying a proper foundation alluded to by the EA Degree, you'll likely be unprepared to properly learn.


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## Keith C (Mar 15, 2017)

JonnyMM said:


> I'm lucky to have some very long standing and high ranking masons in my lodge.
> Sent from my iPhone using My Freemasonry



Can you explain to me what a 'high ranking mason' is exactly?


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## Warrior1256 (Mar 16, 2017)

Keith C said:


> Can you explain to me what a 'high ranking mason' is exactly?


I always wonder the same thing whenever I see this term used.


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## coachn (Mar 16, 2017)

Warrior1256 said:


> I always wonder the same thing whenever I see this term used.


Wonder.... no more!


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## Warrior1256 (Mar 17, 2017)

coachn said:


> Wonder.... no more!
> 
> View attachment 5606


ALRIGHT!!!!!


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## Glen Cook (Mar 17, 2017)

Keith C said:


> Can you explain to me what a 'high ranking mason' is exactly?


Exactly?  No, I can't, as it would vary by jurisdiction. In the US,  it is often taken to mean one who holds, or has held, a senior elected GL  office, or national office.  

Before someone jumps in: Yeah, I know, the highest  rank is MM.  I was answering the question.


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## Warrior1256 (Mar 18, 2017)

Glen Cook said:


> Exactly? No, I can't, as it would vary by jurisdiction. In the US, it is often taken to mean one who holds, or has held, a senior elected GL office, or national office.
> 
> Before someone jumps in: Yeah, I know, the highest rank is MM. I was answering the question.


It's just that usually when I see the term "high ranking Mason" it's on one of the conspiracy theory sites that I look up for fun and entertainment. You know....where it has been confirmed by "high ranking Masons" that we are trying to take over the world, the financial institutions, all religions, etc., etc., etc.


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## Glen Cook (Mar 18, 2017)

Warrior1256 said:


> It's just that usually when I see the term "high ranking Mason" it's on one of the conspiracy theory sites that I look up for fun and entertainment. You know....where it has been confirmed by "high ranking Masons" that we are trying to take over the world, the financial institutions, all religions, etc., etc., etc.


Ohh in that case it means we don't really know and we're just making all this up.


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## Warrior1256 (Mar 18, 2017)

Glen Cook said:


> Ohh in that case it means we don't really know and we're just making all this up.


Yep....lol.


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## MarkR (Mar 19, 2017)

Since "there is no higher degree than the Master Mason degree," everyone they talk to is a "high-ranking Mason!"


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## coachn (Mar 19, 2017)

http://buildinghiram.blogspot.com/2017/03/a-brother-asks-what-is-highest-degree.html


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## Bro. Stewart P.M. (Mar 19, 2017)

coachn said:


> http://buildinghiram.blogspot.com/2017/03/a-brother-asks-what-is-highest-degree.html



That is certainly an intriguing outlook towards the initial 3 degree system.


Stewart M. Owings, 32 °, P∴ M∴
Lead Moderator


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## coachn (Mar 19, 2017)

Bro. Stewart P.M. said:


> That is certainly an intriguing outlook towards the initial 3 degree system.
> 
> 
> Stewart M. Owings, 32 °, P∴ M∴
> Lead Moderator


Yep, considering it was not initially a 3 degree system at all!


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## Warrior1256 (Mar 19, 2017)

MarkR said:


> Since "there is no higher degree than the Master Mason degree," everyone they talk to is a "high-ranking Mason!"


Good point, lol!


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## Warrior1256 (Mar 19, 2017)

coachn said:


> http://buildinghiram.blogspot.com/2017/03/a-brother-asks-what-is-highest-degree.html


Cool article coachn! I had read somewhere before that FC was originally the highest degree.


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## coachn (Mar 20, 2017)

> That was in the new Grand Lodge of London and Westminster.
> 
> A few years later the new GL had the  Noah 3rd degree but that was immediately replaced by the Hiram 3rd degree - a new ancient landmark.
> 
> ...


It's a secret.


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## jermy Bell (Mar 20, 2017)

Warrior1256 said:


> I always wonder the same thing whenever I see this term used.


You know, the half lizard half human masters. Isn't there any in your lodge ?


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## Warrior1256 (Mar 20, 2017)

jermy Bell said:


> You know, the half lizard half human masters. Isn't there any in your lodge ?


If so they are keeping it from their fellow lodge members. Maybe their true identities are known only to the Shriners and those that hold the 33rd degree!


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## Bro. Stewart P.M. (Mar 20, 2017)

jermy Bell said:


> You know, the half lizard half human masters. Isn't there any in your lodge ?





Warrior1256 said:


> If so they are keeping it from their fellow lodge members. Maybe their true identities are known only to the Shriners and those that hold the 33rd degree!



Yes. Yes we are keeping the lizard-half men secretly hidden with the herd of goats.

Dang it! You've figured it all out now... but now you've got to cross the "hot sands" to know for sure.


Stewart M. Owings, 32 °, P∴ M∴
Lead Moderator


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## Warrior1256 (Mar 21, 2017)

Bro. Stewart P.M. said:


> Dang it! You've figured it all out now... but now you've got to cross the "hot sands" to know for sure.


You are cunning but some of us are on too you!


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## Ripcord22A (Mar 21, 2017)

JamestheJust said:


> That was in the new Grand Lodge of London and Westminster.
> 
> A few years later the new GL had the  Noah 3rd degree but that was immediately replaced by the Hiram 3rd degree - a new ancient landmark.
> 
> ...


So lets get this back on track before it too gets shut down......
James do you have an answer for these questions?  I dont.  My opinion would be that nothing was wrong with the Noah 3rd but it was "masonic" themed.  Noah was a builder but he built a boat of wood not a structure of stone.  If the organization was the FreeCarpenters then that story would be perfect.

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## Warrior1256 (Mar 21, 2017)

Ripcord22A said:


> If the organization was the FreeCarpenters then that story would be perfect.


Lol...I like that!


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## Elexir (Mar 21, 2017)

JamestheJust said:


> Noah being raised by his sons might well be a copy of Asar (Osiris) being raised by his son Horus (the lord of life).  This legend has a parallel in Lazarus being raised by Jesus



Then there really is no change.
Other then that the rituals become more in tune.


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## Brother_Steve (Mar 22, 2017)

Keith C said:


> Can you explain to me what a 'high ranking mason' is exactly?


well, to be fair, when I was going through the degrees, we had a lot of purple in the lodge so I would have thought these guys knew more.


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## Brother_Steve (Mar 22, 2017)

coachn said:


> It's a secret.


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## coachn (Mar 22, 2017)

Brother_Steve said:


> well, to be fair, when I was going through the degrees, we had a lot of purple in the lodge so I would have thought these guys knew more.


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## Brother_Steve (Mar 23, 2017)

coachn said:


> View attachment 5611


As regards to masonry. Not world domination...


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## BullDozer Harrell (Mar 25, 2017)

coachn said:


> http://buildinghiram.blogspot.com/2017/03/a-brother-asks-what-is-highest-degree.html


Coach, a great blog about the highest degree in Masonry.

There's a bit of confusion in the Temple though. Are you saying that the Master Mason is a rank and not the last & sublime degree of our Craft system?

I understand your historical lesson that prior to the formation of the Grand Lodge of England, there's a strong likelihood that there was just a two degree system, EA & FC. The MM does appear as an innovation. It's sort of gloss or something added to the picture for whatever purposes these men had but never fully explained and understood by future generations.

Our system seems to have been complete with only the 2 degrees. In fact, the FC degree meshes well the Mark Master account without the necessity of the MM degree. However the MM doesn't naturally blend in except maybe with the introduction of the final working tool, the Trowel.

It's explained that only MMs are given a trowel. 

But anyways, i'm understanding where you're coming from historically. But i'm not sure if i can agree with you that after all this time, we should not still consider the MM degree as the final & highest?


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## Ripcord22A (Mar 25, 2017)

BullDozer Harrell said:


> . However the MM doesn't naturally blend in except maybe with the introduction of the final working tool, the Trowel.
> 
> It's explained that only MMs are given a trowel.
> ?


Well the trowel isnt the MM tool in foreign jurisdictions....its the pencil and skerrit and another one that im blanking on....so again an invention......



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## BullDozer Harrell (Mar 25, 2017)

Ripcord22A said:


> Well the trowel isnt the MM tool in foreign jurisdictions....its the pencil and skerrit and another one that im blanking on....so again an invention......
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my LG-H918 using My Freemasonry mobile app


You're correct and i state this not as a catch all for all jurisdictions. Only using my own as the frame of reference.

We can agree that the trowel is indeed a post 1717 invention.


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## MarkR (Mar 26, 2017)

Ripcord22A said:


> Well the trowel isnt the MM tool in foreign jurisdictions....its the pencil and skerrit and another one that im blanking on....so again an invention......
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my LG-H918 using My Freemasonry mobile app


Compass.


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## BullDozer Harrell (Mar 26, 2017)

MarkR said:


> Compass.


Are you indicating the compass as an innovative symbolic working tool of a MM that was introduced concurrently or shortly after the 3rd degree was added?


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## coachn (Mar 26, 2017)

Warrior1256 said:


> Cool article coachn! I had read somewhere before that FC was originally the highest degree.


And unless you know what that "FC" refers to, you'll not know which FC to which it refers.


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## coachn (Mar 26, 2017)

BullDozer Harrell said:


> Coach, a great blog about the highest degree in Masonry.


Thanks!  It sure was fun researching and putting it together.


BullDozer Harrell said:


> There's a bit of confusion in the Temple though. Are you saying that the Master Mason is a rank and not the last & sublime degree of our Craft system?


Yes.  That is exactly what I implied.  If the FC did the work that he was supposed to do, as spelled out within the dominant Preston-Webb Ritual practiced within the USA , then the MM Degree becomes a celebration of what the FC has Achieved and the FC comes into the Degree as "The Master's Word".

As it is now, it is a degree bestowing unearned rank where a substitute is provided because the candidate is not "The Master's Word" and he hasn't a clue as to what the Ritual is intended to point out: _*He is a Ruffian.*_


BullDozer Harrell said:


> I understand your historical lesson that prior to the formation of the Grand Lodge of England, there's a strong likelihood that there was just a two degree system, EA & FC.


Thanks!


BullDozer Harrell said:


> The MM does appear as an innovation.


I'm glad that you see this too.


BullDozer Harrell said:


> It's sort of gloss or something added to the picture for whatever purposes these men had but never fully explained and understood by future generations.


Yes!  See previous comments about "*He is a Ruffian."*


BullDozer Harrell said:


> Our system seems to have been complete with only the 2 degrees.


Agreed!


BullDozer Harrell said:


> In fact, the FC degree meshes well the Mark Master account without the necessity of the MM degree.


The breadcrumb trail is definitely thick with clues!  Unfortunately, very few see it and even fewer follow it.


BullDozer Harrell said:


> However the MM doesn't naturally blend in except maybe with the introduction of the final working tool, the Trowel.  It's explained that only MMs are given a trowel.


This is where I want to scream, "Wake Up!", but I won't and I'll let you just image that I did.

_Apprentices and Fellows of the Craft used/use the Trowel.; they HAD/HAVE TO!  The MM Degree is "Symbolic"._  In practice, ALL levels used ALL the Working Tools.  _*How else were/are each of our Craftsmen going to Learn the Craft????  *Explain, Show, Do!_


BullDozer Harrell said:


> But anyways, i'm understanding where you're coming from historically.


Good!


BullDozer Harrell said:


> But i'm not sure if i can agree with you that after all this time, we should not still consider the MM degree as the final & highest?


You could ageree, but it would require you to step back, remember that these degrees are all " symbolic" and _use common sense.  _


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## jermy Bell (Mar 26, 2017)

The 3rd degree was added in the 1700's. Not sure how it came to be, but what was the highest degree (?) Before the 3rd was added. I still can not find any information on this.


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## coachn (Mar 27, 2017)

jermy Bell said:


> The 3rd degree was added in the 1700's. Not sure how it came to be, but what was the highest degree (?) Before the 3rd was added.


The Entered Apprentice Prime Degree.  The "Master's Part" was ritual that bestowed the rank of Fellow Craft to a member who would assume the role of Lodge Master.  


jermy Bell said:


> I still can not find any information on this.


View the following video between times 10:00 and 23:00 to get the skinny on the light you seek:  http://www.molor.org/trumanlectureseries#spring2012

Then read through this link and its supporting links: http://buildinghiram.blogspot.com/2017/03/a-brother-asks-what-is-highest-degree.html

and then read through this as well, with supporting links: http://buildinghiram.blogspot.com/2017/03/a-brother-asks-about-highest-degree-post.html

Enjoy the Light Bro.!

F&S,

Coach


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## coachn (Mar 27, 2017)

> I rather think that the Grand Lodge of London and Westminster did not know very much.


<sigh> Rather than what?  Think that they were making it up as they went along?


> As I recall reading, in 1719 the Grand Master complained that Irish Masons were burning written materials so that the new GL would not have them.  The GM said that this was an irretrievable loss.  It seems that this was so.


Or that this too was made up to further establish credibility where there was none.


> And of course the question then arises whether the Masonic knowledge of the Irish Masons survived.


Assuming that any Irish Masonic knowledge surviving would have anything to do with our Freemasonic plays?


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## BullDozer Harrell (Mar 27, 2017)

JamestheJust said:


> I rather think that the Grand Lodge of London and Westminster did not know very much.  As I recall reading, in 1719 the Grand Master complained that Irish Masons were burning written materials so that the new GL would not have them.  The GM said that this was an irretrievable loss.  It seems that this was so.
> 
> And of course the question then arises whether the Masonic knowledge of the Irish Masons survived.


Are you referring to GM Payne of the new GL of England? Where did you read about his complaint of Irish Masons burning materials?

It would be something i'd like to check out because I have a hunch that it was probably the GL of England bunch themselves who might have destroyed or suppressed many written records which existed prior to 1717. 

I had told a Brother about this suspicion of mine. He indulged me with his attentive ear. Responded that it's plausible and possible that the new Grand Lodge would have wanted to secure their organization as the first ever organized GL system in world history by erasing all past records. Pretty much just  like the early Orthodox & Roman churches did in prior centuries.


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