# Is Freemasonry Prestigious?



## pointwithinacircle2 (Jul 16, 2014)

Recently I had a conversation about why there has been a decline in the number of young men petitioning for initiation to the fraternity.  One of the possible reasons suggested was that in past decades men wanted to become Masons because of the prestige of belonging to the Lodge.

As a Mason, do you feel that belonging to a Masonic Lodge is considered to be a source of prestige to non-Masons?  Do you feel that the prestige of belonging to the Lodge has diminished over the years.  What do you feel are the reasons that this generation, or the last couple generations, would see the Lodge as less prestigious than their fathers generation did?  And finally, should we seek to increase our membership by reviving the prestige of being a Mason, or should we look to other ways of providing value to the current generation?


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## Brother JC (Jul 16, 2014)

I'm not a fan of the numbers game, personally. I feel we outgrew our reality during the "boom," when every Tom, Dick, and Harry was accepted just because he knew someone, or worked for this or that company. We became another service organization, which is not what we were meant to be.


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## pointwithinacircle2 (Jul 16, 2014)

Thanks for the reply, but before this thread gets out of hand I would like to clarify something.  This thread is not about membership numbers.  I am asking two things.  First, how much prestige do you personally think you receive from being a Mason?  Second, do you think that Masonry is seen as prestigious by those outside the fraternity?


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## JJones (Jul 16, 2014)

pointwithinacircle2 said:


> As a Mason, do you feel that belonging to a Masonic Lodge is considered to be a source of prestige to non-Masons?  Do you feel that the prestige of belonging to the Lodge has diminished over the years.
> 
> What do you feel are the reasons that this generation, or the last couple generations, would see the Lodge as less prestigious than their fathers generation did?



Our society has become much more casual than it once was.  Outside of professions (and sometimes within them) everyone is on a first name basis with one another, titles are rarely used (Mr., Mrs.), we wear slippers to go shopping...I could go on.  Unfortunately, when you approach something with a casual attitude then it is perceived to be less valuable and loses it's prestige.

Anyhow, long story short, we should treat the fraternity the way we want it to be viewed.  It may take a paradigm shift to get the majority of the brothers to look at the craft less casually however we should be the change we want to see.

The last couple of generations look at how older generations treat the fraternity...I think that's why there's such a big misconception that it's a 'good ol' boy club' for 'old men'.


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## jjjjjggggg (Jul 16, 2014)

I don't care much for prestige. I didn't join the fraternity to gain prestige or to inflate my ego. All the regalia, pageantry, and titles don't impress me. Call yourself the grandmaster of the universe, but if you are a jerk to your fellow human being, then I have no use for you. 

And I think today's young people have gotten pretty good at spotting BS. They want something meaningful to them personally that will improve their character and be an avenue to do real change in the community. They don't want fake and pretentious parades of snobbishness.

Quite simply, young folks want what's real. If we can't offer them that, they'll stay away... or we'll only draw the types we don't want.


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## Brother JC (Jul 16, 2014)

I don't really feel that I gained any prestige by becoming a Freemason. Perhaps I hold my head a little higher, perhaps I show more patience and consideration in my day-to-day life. But it's a change within myself I have found, not some outward gilding.


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## Companion Joe (Jul 16, 2014)

Up until the last 30-35 years or so, Masonry was elite in this country. Masons were the elite in their communities. Elite is different from "elitist." Elitist has a negative and snobbish connotation. Elite means (paraphrasing) superior in quality. We need to get back to that. Instead of worrying about numbers and wondering how we can get them in the Lodge, we need to get back to the point of the best of the best wanting to seek admittance and taking only the best of them.

If I knew a sure fired way to do that, I'd share, but I don't. Today's sense of entitlement and desire for instant gratification are a major roadblock.

We don't need to be making accommodations to bring in young members. What we need to do is identify the best of the best of young men who would be interested in Masonry and in becoming good Masons. Get them on board, then the others will start to ask why some men are Masons and they are not. That will put the prestige back in Masonry and ultimately, I think, lead to better times for our fraternity and our communities.


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## JohnnyFlotsam (Jul 17, 2014)

Companion Joe said:


> Up until the last 30-35 years or so, Masonry was elite in this country.


Actually it goes a little further back than that. Freemasonry lost much of it's prestige when it became a social club in the post-war years of the mid-twentieth century. Wherever you place the date though, the transformation that accompanied that membership boom has marred the fraternity to this day.  We can blame "modern society" for failing to appreciate the things that once made Masonry so meaningful, and to a large extent that's true, but there are men who still do seek that kind of light. They're just having a hard time finding it in so many lodges today.


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## dfreybur (Jul 17, 2014)

Companion Joe said:


> Up until the last 30-35 years or so, Masonry was elite in this country. Masons were the elite in their communities. Elite is different from "elitist." Elitist has a negative and snobbish connotation. Elite means (paraphrasing) superior in quality. We need to get back to that. Instead of worrying about numbers and wondering how we can get them in the Lodge, we need to get back to the point of the best of the best wanting to seek admittance and taking only the best of them.
> 
> If I knew a sure fired way to do that, I'd share, but I don't. Today's sense of entitlement and desire for instant gratification are a major roadblock.
> 
> We don't need to be making accommodations to bring in young members. What we need to do is identify the best of the best of young men who would be interested in Masonry and in becoming good Masons. Get them on board, then the others will start to ask why some men are Masons and they are not. That will put the prestige back in Masonry and ultimately, I think, lead to better times for our fraternity and our communities.



I suggest the answer is a return to the original plan - Membership by invitation.  I have no idea how long ago the change was made to move away from invitation but the modern results in the US don't seem to work like European jurisdictions that have been by invitation for centuries.  I'm well aware brothers get up in arms about any mention of invitation - There is no conflict and never has been any conflict with free will.  Get past that false notion, please.


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## admarcus1 (Jul 17, 2014)

dfreybur said:


> I suggest the answer is a return to the original plan - Membership by invitation.  I have no idea how long ago the change was made to move away from invitation but the modern results in the US don't seem to work like European jurisdictions that have been by invitation for centuries.  I'm well aware brothers get up in arms about any mention of invitation - There is no conflict and never has been any conflict with free will.  Get past that false notion, please.




That was actually made explicit under the rules of the Grand Lodge of Massachusetts. I'd have to go back and look up when that was, but it is mentioned in the member's handbook we receive as an EA. One is allowed to ask if someone is interested. No pressure, no coercion. 


Sent From My Freemasonry Pro App


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## jjjjjggggg (Jul 17, 2014)

JohnnyFlotsam said:


> They're just having a hard time finding it in so many lodges today.



I find myself becoming overly critical sometimes, until I go to lodge and get around my brothers. And not just my lodge, but the handful that I've been able to visit the last few months. Sometimes I find it easy to say it would be better if freemasonry would just X or Y, but then I remember what my uncle told me when I submitted my petition... that I won't get out of masonry what I put in, but I'll get back ten times as much. So instead of complaining about why we don't do this or that, I have decided that change starts with me, enthusiasm starts with me, and jumping and getting to work starts with me. Above all, I find it's my attitude that needs to be in check.


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## JJones (Jul 17, 2014)

dfreybur said:


> I suggest the answer is a return to the original plan - Membership by invitation.  I have no idea how long ago the change was made to move away from invitation but the modern results in the US don't seem to work like European jurisdictions that have been by invitation for centuries.  I'm well aware brothers get up in arms about any mention of invitation - There is no conflict and never has been any conflict with free will.  Get past that false notion, please.



I'm willing to be open minded about something like this but I'd need something I could read...or some kind of evidence, that this used to be the case...I suspect if it was then it probably got changed around the time of the Baltimore Convention?

I've encountered numerous men who've thought the Fraternity was invitation only anyhow.


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## Brother JC (Jul 18, 2014)

Here's the GLNM's line on invitation:
"Code 308. SELECTIVE INVITATION.Any Master Mason in good standing may invite a man he knows to be of good character and morals to join the fraternity if he qualifies under Codes 301, 302 and 303 above."
Note the word "selective."


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## BroBook (Jul 18, 2014)

pointwithinacircle2 said:


> Recently I had a conversation about why there has been a decline in the number of young men petitioning for initiation to the fraternity.  One of the possible reasons suggested was that in past decades men wanted to become Masons because of the prestige of belonging to the Lodge.
> 
> As a Mason, do you feel that belonging to a Masonic Lodge is considered to be a source of prestige to non-Masons?  Do you feel that the prestige of belonging to the Lodge has diminished over the years.  What do you feel are the reasons that this generation, or the last couple generations, would see the Lodge as less prestigious than their fathers generation did?  And finally, should we seek to increase our membership by reviving the prestige of being a Mason, or should we look to other ways of providing value to the current generation?


"Personally" we I think have a tendency to forget that we do not masons we just enable brothers to prove that they have gone though the ceremonies, if we (masons) go 
back and live our charges and obligations they will come 


Bro Book
M.W.U.G.L. Of Fl: P.H.A.
Excelsior # 43
At pensacola


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## BryanMaloney (Jul 18, 2014)

trysquare said:


> Here's the GLNM's line on invitation:
> "Code 308. SELECTIVE INVITATION.Any Master Mason in good standing may invite a man he knows to be of good character and morals to join the fraternity if he qualifies under Codes 301, 302 and 303 above."
> Note the word "selective."



Okay, but does that say that this is the only way someone can petition? This could easily exist in parallel with men petitioning on their own initiative. Where does it say that petitions on ones own initiative are not allowed?


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## Willys (Jul 18, 2014)

I would tell a worthy friend that I am a Mason.  I would then tell that friend that I think he would make a good Mason.  Followed by explaining however that Freemasonry forbids soliciting membership so if he feels he would like to inquire about Masonry or join then I'd be glad to help him where I could.  And finish with _'that would be the first and last time I'll say that, and any further action is up to him.'_


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## Willys (Jul 18, 2014)

Oh yeah, and the idea of _'prestigious'_ along with Freemasonry can only be a broken thought.  The two don't relate and do not compute.  But if one insists, then in a pyramid of _'prestige'_, Freemasonry would be the pinnacle.

*'No greater honor...'*


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## Brother JC (Jul 18, 2014)

BryanMaloney said:


> Okay, but does that say that this is the only way someone can petition?


Not at all, it merely addresses the question of invitation. "Seek, Ask, Knock" is still the preferred method, and the "2B1" stickers are still stacked near the front door.


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## dfreybur (Jul 18, 2014)

admarcus1 said:


> That was actually made explicit under the rules of the Grand Lodge of Massachusetts.



Illinois has an "Invitation to Petition" process.  So involved I never used it.  US jurisdictions have been inching towards invitations in recent years.  I think the trend started well over 10 years ago with Pennsylvania's "Friend to Friend" program.


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## Glen Cook (Jul 18, 2014)

There is no longer, in my view, prestige in belonging to the fraternity. It is no longer a mark of someone finding you of worth.  It is no more selective than Walmart inviting me to shop there.  It doesn't reflect my economic status (for some that is a mark of prestige) as again, it is likely no more expensive than Walmart.


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## JJones (Jul 18, 2014)

Glen Cook said:


> There is no longer, in my view, prestige in belonging to the fraternity. It is no longer a mark of someone finding you of worth.  It is no more selective than Walmart inviting me to shop there.  It doesn't reflect my economic status (for some that is a mark of prestige) as again, it is likely no more expensive than Walmart.




Thankfully, I haven't seen any Brothers come to lodge dressed like some of the folks I've seen at Walmart. 

Something that's cheap and easy to get really can't be very prestigious can it?  If it's cheap then it's easy to forget about or walk away from and if it's too easy to get into then that must mean that the standards aren't very high at all either.  It'd be hard to make any organization sound prestigious with a 'cheap and easy' philosophy.


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## chrmc (Jul 18, 2014)

In some jurisdictions (especially in Europe) there is still prestige in belonging to the fraternity. But I would say that in the areas where an invite and vote is as easy to get a Costco membership card, there is little prestige left. 
Now whether we can (or even want to) change this that is the interesting question...


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## cacarter (Jul 20, 2014)

Not a bit. If someone hears that I am a mason they do not look at me with a sense of awe. It's been mentioned by others here that it is too cheap to be in freemasonry, we charge Walmart prices and get Walmart level prestige. I can see an argument that every man should be able to access the secrets of freemasonry, and why should a price tag keep a man from something which he is searching for? But modern masonry is not about striving to perfect the inner, we've become about community service over anything else. Like others have said we are more like the Lions. The craft has "strayed" from its "original" purpose, and thus cheapened our own worth. 


Sent From My Freemasonry Pro App


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## Companion Joe (Jul 21, 2014)

I don't relate dues to prestige. What does the general public know about your Lodge's dues prices anyway? On the line of thinking, the local country club should be prestigious. It's not. Most of the members are well off financially (or at least they want you to think they are), but they are the sorriest people around. People equate driving a Mercedes with being prestigious. It may be a sign of affluence, but that doesn't always make the owner prestigious.

The actions of the members should be what makes Masonry prestigious, not a dollar amount.


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## BryanMaloney (Jul 21, 2014)

I can get prestige. It's not hard to find. All it amounts to is to be attached to something that happens to be fashionable at the moment.


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## Warrior1256 (Aug 5, 2014)

Companion Joe said:


> Up until the last 30-35 years or so, Masonry was elite in this country. Masons were the elite in their communities. Elite is different from "elitist." Elitist has a negative and snobbish connotation. Elite means (paraphrasing) superior in quality. We need to get back to that. Instead of worrying about numbers and wondering how we can get them in the Lodge, we need to get back to the point of the best of the best wanting to seek admittance and taking only the best of them.
> 
> If I knew a sure fired way to do that, I'd share, but I don't. Today's sense of entitlement and desire for instant gratification are a major roadblock.
> 
> We don't need to be making accommodations to bring in young members. What we need to do is identify the best of the best of young men who would be interested in Masonry and in becoming good Masons. Get them on board, then the others will start to ask why some men are Masons and they are not. That will put the prestige back in Masonry and ultimately, I think, lead to better times for our fraternity and our communities.


This sounds like a great idea to me. Obviously if the Fraternity is to survive we need more quality young people to join.


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