# PHA visitation



## solomon1979 (Jul 22, 2013)

So if i were to visit a PHA lodge. Would I be be able to? I am a "mainstream" MM. I have heard that some PH lodges don't or even forbid visitation to and from there lodge. Is this true? Im curious to know how and why this started. 


Freemason Connect Mobile


----------



## widows son (Jul 23, 2013)

Your GL and the PHA would have to first recognize each other and have visitation rights between them for you to visit.


----------



## bro jimmie (Jul 23, 2013)

*Mainstream MM*

You refer to yourself as a Mainstream MM.
WOW So what does that make me A PHA a minor Mason? I know you did mean to offend after all you are interested in visiting a PHA lodge. Please do so.


----------



## bro jimmie (Jul 23, 2013)

*Visit*

Sorry I did not mean to be negative in anyway. I think that it is important that MM visit the different  branches the masonic order. You are doing what all master masons should be doing. 
Enjoy your visit my Brothers Solomon


----------



## solomon1979 (Jul 23, 2013)

Im in no way referring to my self as mainstream. Thats what I hear brothers call it. I



Freemason Connect Mobile


----------



## dfreybur (Jul 23, 2013)

First you need to look up if your GL recognizes the PHA GL in question.  If they can do you can present yourself for visitation.  It's technically up to them to look up if that recognition is mutual.  That leads to a second step that's nice if you have the data ...

When I looked up the list in California they supplied me a list of PHA GLs that had granted mutual recognition and a list of PHA GLs that had not yet responded to.  If you have a resource like that it is very nice to use it as it makes their job much easier.  If you know they aren't allowed to let you in don't go.  But not all GLs publish lists with that extra bit of data.  So you go and trust in the spirit of the law ...

As to Brother Jimmie I've long since objected to the term mainstream.  Sometimes I use the never official "George Washington GL" that every US Mason understands but is a dodge.  Sometimes I use the initials of a specific GL like GLofTX and MHPHAGLofTX.

If I recall correctly you're moving to Florida?  They don't have recognition.


----------



## perryel (Jul 23, 2013)

I'm not aware of MWPHGL witholding recognition from a corresponding GL in any state.  That being the case, you would be welcomed as a Brother at any PHA Lodge.


----------



## bro jimmie (Jul 23, 2013)

Ok thanks you for clearing that up.
we are All on the same Level.


----------



## solomon1979 (Jul 23, 2013)

What is strange is PHA is recognized by the UGLE. Its up to state lodges that also have recognition by UGLE to have visitation but they don't. In Illinois they do. If Florida doesn't? That is ridiculous. It seems that defeats the universal brotherhood purpose of masonry. I have looked at calenders of PHA lodges and they are busy with work and functions. Other lodges are blank or have a few things going on. Maybe PHA has something more to offer and all other lodges should pick up on those ideas and promote them. If there was intervisitation and national recognition by all state GLS'. We would see more of the benefits of the principals,tenets and virtues of our brotherhood. 


Freemason Connect Mobile


----------



## Bro. Stewart P.M. (Jul 23, 2013)

solomon1979 said:


> What is strange is PHA is recognized by the UGLE. Its up to state lodges that also have recognition by UGLE to have visitation but they don't. In Illinois they do. If Florida doesn't? That is ridiculous. It seems that defeats the universal brotherhood purpose of masonry. I have looked at calenders of PHA lodges and they are busy with work and functions. Other lodges are blank or have a few things going on. Maybe PHA has something more to offer and all other lodges should pick up on those ideas and promote them. If there was intervisitation and national recognition by all state GLS'. We would see more of the benefits of the principals,tenets and virtues of our brotherhood.
> 
> 
> Freemason Connect Mobile



The MWPHGLoTX & the GLoTX do recognize each other, there is no visitation currently though. Both consider themselves "regular" and not clandestine as several other rogue GL's in the State that decided that they wanted to start their own "deal". In the case of TX, there are a lot of PHA lodges that are not recognized because they can not directly tie their beginnings back to Europe.


----------



## perryel (Jul 23, 2013)

This is the first I have heard of a PHA Lodge that cannot trace its lineage to the Premiere Lodge of England.   The type of Lodge you describe, based on my experience, would represent an anomaly in PHA Freemasonry.


----------



## widows son (Jul 23, 2013)

"This is the first I have heard of a PHA Lodge that cannot trace its lineage to the Premiere Lodge of England. The type of Lodge you describe, based on my experience, would represent an anomaly in PHA Freemasonry."

• If I could expand on this question and ask, is this because some PHA GL came from the NGL?


----------



## Jericho2013 (Jul 23, 2013)

You could always go by and have dinner with them if they will have you even if you aren't allowed to sit in lodge.  Taking steps for fellowship among brothers is a good first step.


Freemason Connect Mobile


----------



## solomon1979 (Jul 23, 2013)

There is a irregular clandestine lodge close to town and few others in surrounding areas. They all Claim to be PHA but they are not. Some tried to visit our lodge and were often tried always denied and ready to be denied again. There is one in florida to and its on facebook. Its called the regular gl of florida. Its a bunk lodge. Also a few in st louis. I know this because we have guys that come for healing or go through initiation again. Other lodges do to.


Freemason Connect Mobile


----------



## dj9684 (Jul 23, 2013)

In order for mainstream masons and PHA mason to meet there has to be a mutual recognition between the two Grandlodges.  I am a PHA mason in Georgia (  not a mutual recognition state); we can trace our lineage to UGLE because of African Lodge#459 in Boston just like any other PHA Grandlodge.  However, there are clandestine lodges operating in the name of Prince Hall and others can not tell the difference. This irregular Masonic affiliation is known as P.H.O ( Prince Hall Origin). They operate under a National Grandlodge that preside over the Grandlodges in each state, which goes against one of the land marks in freemasonry.

Freemason Connect Mobile


----------



## Scorpionlawz (Jul 24, 2013)

solomon1979 said:


> So if i were to visit a PHA lodge. Would I be be able to? I am a "mainstream" MM. I have heard that some PH lodges don't or even forbid visitation to and from there lodge. Is this true? Im curious to know how and why this started.
> 
> 
> Freemason Connect Mobile



I live in MA, while making an attempt to visit a PHA Lodge, I was told not to show up. I had to call the secretary and let the WM know when I was coming a few weeks in advance. I know this does not represent PH Masonry, but even with full recognition between our grand Lodges, there is still a spirit of suspicion which should not be. 
As an African American member of the GL of MA, I thoroughly enjoy visiting with PH brothers. I'm always learning new things. 
Go visit, broaden your horizons and meet some great men. 


Bro. Junior A. Knight 
Chicopee Lodge
GL Massachusetts AF&AM


----------



## Aeelorty (Jul 24, 2013)

I have gone to a joint table lodge that was great and an EA degree no problems with either. During the degree we had a DDGM and PM with us who were called to be seated in the East.


----------



## dfreybur (Jul 24, 2013)

solomon1979 said:


> What is strange is PHA is recognized by the UGLE. Its up to state lodges that also have recognition by UGLE to have visitation but they don't. In Illinois they do. If Florida doesn't? That is ridiculous. It seems that defeats the universal brotherhood purpose of masonry.



http://bessel.org/masrec/phamap.htm

There's a map of states that do and don't have PHA recognition.  Florida is not on the list and yes I and many others agree that's ridiculous.  As Illinois has blanket recognition you can visit a PHA lodge in any of the states marked blue on that map.  As Illinois has blanket recognition I have not found any list of PHA jurisdictions that return recognition so it's up to them to figure out if they can let you in for any of the states marked blue on the map.

http://www.ugle.org.uk/about/foreign-grand-lodges

That's the UGLE list for recognition.  Select North America and you'll see which PHA jurisdictions they recognize.  The lists aren't quite the same as the map above.  I think they haven't caught up yet and are likely to soon.



> Maybe PHA has something more to offer and all other lodges should pick up on those ideas and promote them.



True for any active lodge that's doing many degrees.


----------



## dj9684 (Jul 24, 2013)

In Georgia, there is no mutual recognition. However, my lodge (exodus lodge #593 PHA) and Gate City lodge #2 had a joint community service event with habitat for humanity in 2010. The first time in Georgia's history that a PHA lodge and a Mainstream Lodge engage in some form of activity together. Gate City caught a lot of flack years ago for initiating a Black man into the lodge and now he is currently the WM their now. I heard that other lodges in Georgia tried to have Gate City labeled as clandestine and attempted removed them from the Georgia's jurisdiction but failed. Its sad to say the reason that PHA is not fully recognized in the U.S. is because of race. Majority of the states that are not recognized are southern states.

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Freemasonry mobile app


----------



## solomon1979 (Jul 24, 2013)

Thats the type of stories of perseverance we need to hear. This color/race issue has got to stop. Hopefully enough people have the cojones to come together to make changes and move forward out of stagnation.


Freemason Connect Mobile


----------



## bupton52 (Jul 25, 2013)

Bro. Stewart said:


> In the case of TX, there are a lot of PHA lodges that are not recognized because they can not directly tie their beginnings back to Europe.



I have heard this several times, but I have yet to see these other PHA lodges. I believe that you may be talking about the many predominately black A.F.& A.M GLs that we have in TX.


----------



## bupton52 (Jul 25, 2013)

widows son said:


> "This is the first I have heard of a PHA Lodge that cannot trace its lineage to the Premiere Lodge of England. The type of Lodge you describe, based on my experience, would represent an anomaly in PHA Freemasonry."
> 
> â€¢ If I could expand on this question and ask, is this because some PHA GL came from the NGL?



Even if a PHA GL comes through the NGL, it would retain the lineage to England.


----------



## Jamarr/G\ (Jul 25, 2013)

Thankfully Tennessee does recognize PHA lodges. Visitation is allowed both ways. .

Freemason Connect Mobile


----------



## Bro. Stewart P.M. (Jul 25, 2013)

bupton52 said:


> I have heard this several times, but I have yet to see these other PHA lodges. I believe that you may be talking about the many predominately black A.F.& A.M GLs that we have in TX.



Yes, I am sorry. You are correct. I do recall several Brothers at work referring to their "four letter" Lodges... AND, some mainstream PHA co-workers clearly showing me "who" to stay away from, or better who was not legit.


----------



## BroParker (Jul 27, 2013)

I'm fairly new to the brotherhood, but I had the chance to travel with brothers from our lodge to Memphis to visit a lodge for the weekend and learned how other jurisdictions were. I am all for fellowship amongst brothers it would make the fraternity stronger.

Freemason Connect Mobile


----------



## Cblack (Jul 27, 2013)

Jamarr/G\ said:


> Thankfully Tennessee does recognize PHA lodges. Visitation is allowed both ways. .
> 
> Freemason Connect Mobile



The MWPHGLoTN and the GLoTN does not have mutual recognition or visitation. .Why would you make such an untrue statement? 

Freemason Connect Mobile


----------



## Cblack (Jul 27, 2013)

Bro. Stewart said:


> Yes, I am sorry. You are correct. I do recall several Brothers at work referring to their "four letter" Lodges... AND, some mainstream PHA co-workers clearly showing me "who" to stay away from, or better who was not legit.



Bro. Stewart...you have to watch them...I have seen photos where Clandestine masons have been in tyled lodges with GLoState brethren...I think that the members of the GLoState are so worried about being labeled as racist that any African American freemason that they see are assumed to be PHA....

Freemason Connect Mobile


----------



## Jamarr/G\ (Jul 27, 2013)

Cblack said:


> The MWPHGLoTN and the GLoTN does not have mutual recognition or visitation. .Why would you make such an untrue statement?
> 
> Freemason Connect Mobile



?  

Sent from my VS870 4G using Freemasonry mobile app


----------



## bupton52 (Jul 27, 2013)

Cblack said:


> The MWPHGLoTN and the GLoTN does not have mutual recognition or visitation. .Why would you make such an untrue statement?
> 
> Freemason Connect Mobile



That is correct Bro. Black. Those two GLs do not allow visitation. 

Freemason Connect Mobile


----------



## Cblack (Jul 27, 2013)

Jamarr/G\ said:


> ?
> 
> Sent from my VS870 4G using Freemasonry mobile app



What statement needs to be clarified? 

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Freemasonry mobile app


----------



## Jamarr/G\ (Jul 27, 2013)

I apologize brother this is all new news to me. . I've only been a MM for 3months and I was never told this. . Sorry for any misconception 

Freemason Connect Mobile


----------



## Cblack (Jul 27, 2013)

Jamarr/G\ said:


> I apologize brother this is all new news to me. . I've only been a MM for 3months and I was never told this. . Sorry for any misconception
> 
> Freemason Connect Mobile



It's not a problem...If I sounded a little too overbearing or out of line I apologize my Brother

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Freemasonry mobile app


----------



## Jamarr/G\ (Jul 27, 2013)

Cblack said:


> It's not a problem...If I sounded a little too overbearing or out of line I apologize my Brother
> 
> Sent from my SPH-L710 using Freemasonry mobile app



No your fine!  I appreciate you sharing li/G\ht brother. . I needed to know that information 

Freemason Connect Mobile


----------

