# Having your light taken



## mrpierce17

I know of a brother who was healed over into Prince Hall from international he has been a MM for at least 3 yrs under PHA and every time I see the brother he is Masonic from head to toe he has been warned several times by the craft not to ware anything Masonic until he can defend it he was tried by a brother and could not answer the question asked therefor his jacket was taken ... Long story short the brother is upset about his things being taken from him but what do you do when you have warned a brother about this issue time after time again he feels as if he is being picked on I think he is being tought a valuable lesson in knowing how to protect his emblems ijs ....what do the brothers here think on this subject..


----------



## MarkR

I'm not a fan of the idea that a Mason can be compelled to "defend" his property or have it taken from him.  Taking someone's property by force or threat of force is a crime in pretty much every state, and not something Masons should be doing.  However, I'm not a Prince Hall Mason, so it's just my opinion.


----------



## mrpierce17

MarkR said:


> I'm not a fan of the idea that a Mason can be compelled to "defend" his property or have it taken from him.  Taking someone's property by force or threat of force is a crime in pretty much every state, and not something Masons should be doing.  However, I'm not a Prince Hall Mason, so it's just my opinion.


No one said it was taken by force and no threat was made keep in mind these are brothers from the same lodge not just someone who he just met on the street , in saying that how would you feel if you saw a E.A. You know to be a E.A.  and you had already had the discussion on when to and when not to be wearing Masonic light walking around with the M.M emblem on ??  Is it not still his property ? dose he still have the same right to wear it ?did he earn it ? is he worthy and .... well....you know the rest ..how shall I know him unless I try him


----------



## pointwithinacircle2

I find it interesting that the challenging Masons feel it is proper to confiscate Masonic items while they apparently feel no obligation to educate their Brother.


----------



## Brother JC

You say he is a Master Mason wearing Masonic emblems, correct? Then no one in his own lodge should be challenging him. An EA wearing Masonic emblems, on the other hand, should have wise counsel whispered in his ear. No Master Mason should have to "defend" himself in his own lodge.


----------



## mrpierce17

I guess this is why they say we PHA brothers do things a little different the only way I will know him to be a brother is by strict trial and due examination at least that's the way it is in my jurisdiction interesting comments though thank you for sharing


----------



## Glen Cook

mrpierce17 said:


> No one said it was taken by force and no threat was made keep in mind these are brothers from the same lodge not just someone who he just met on the street , in saying that how would you feel if you saw a E.A. You know to be a E.A.  and you had already had the discussion on when to and when not to be wearing Masonic light walking around with the M.M emblem on ??  Is it not still his property ? dose he still have the same right to wear it ?did he earn it ? is he worthy and .... well....you know the rest ..how shall I know him unless I try him


As I understood your post (punctuation is our friend, you know ), the individual was a Master Mason, not an entered apprentice.  Apparently your area has a custom of issuing Masonic challenge questions and if deemed not answered correctly, some how there is a demand for an article of clothing.  This is not a custom of which I would approve, since you ask. I do not understand this to be the way to treat a brother.  However, it is not my grand lodge or lodge.  I also suspect it is not part of your GL code/constitution/bylaws. 

In your second post, you pose that the individual is an EA.  I would take him aside and advise him that we don't wear the S&C until we are an MM, if that is your GL rule.  I would not seek to embarrass him or take his belongings

I also question referring to an article of clothing or jewelry as "Light."  We could probably fill a server with references to Masonic Light (I would invite attention to AASR SJ 32nd Degree), but until now I had not heard of items of apparel considered "light."  In fact, I could argue they impede light.


----------



## caution22113

The brotherly thing to do would be to educate the brother, rather than humiliating him.


----------



## mrpierce17

pointwithinacircle2 said:


> I find it interesting that the challenging Masons feel it is proper to confiscate Masonic items while they apparently feel no obligation to educate their Brother.


If you read closely you will see that the brother was previously caution not to wear any emblems that he could not defend if you can't tell me what it is and it's use masonicly you should not have it on .I see many newly raised brothers on this app asking the question when can I wear my ring ..most answers are in the fashion of When you are comfortable being tried or when you can defend it


----------



## mrpierce17

I honestly think the brother was not trying to embarrass him just showed him a little tuff love better a brother from your lodge than a stranger I think this sort of thing was more common in the older days guess this guy was old school the I'm sure the property was gave back with the instruction to go back to your ritual and become better informed


----------



## dfreybur

mrpierce17 said:


> ... the only way I will know him to be a brother is by strict trial and due examination at least that's the way it is in my jurisdiction ...



I can sit with a brother in conversation for a few minutes and know if he is a brother without any proficiency challenge whatsoever, so I don't understand the tradition in your jurisdiction.  But it's the tradition in your jurisdiction so it's what you're taught to do.  I have little need to check dues cards and go over recognition issues unless a man presents himself at lodge.  Out in public I don't have to care about that level of detail.

I take it this brother has basically failed to learn or retain his proficiencies.  I wonder if the responses he gives are still from his "mother jurisdiction" and thus clandestine or incorrect in other ways.  If you and I were to decide to go over our proficiencies I'd deliver parts that I remember word for word, parts that I remember the story and parts that mix my jurisdictions together.  You would quickly understand that I know my degrees but that I learned some different details.  Can you tell if this is what's happening with him versus not knowing the story?


----------



## mrpierce17

@dfreybur I sent you a PM


----------



## Levelhead

How many brothers wear shirts with the 47th problem of Euclid and have no idea how to explain it ? 

Im not going to take a brothers shirt like im smarter and i busted him so im gonna pull rank (not literally).

NO i sit down with a brother and go over the subject with him. Now he's educated! 

Im starting to realize why PH is not recognized in FL more and more every time i hear stories like this.


----------



## Warrior1256

pointwithinacircle2 said:


> I find it interesting that the challenging Masons feel it is proper to confiscate Masonic items while they apparently feel no obligation to educate their Brother.


I agree. I'm a new MM and not sure about Masonic law but I would think that wearing Masonic clothing, trinkets, etc. while not entitled would be a violation of Masonic law if you are a member of a lodge. If so action should be taken. However, taking someone's private property seems wrong and, if anyone tried that with me, dangerous.


----------



## japool

Levelhead said:


> Im starting to realize why PH is not recognized in FL more and more every time i hear stories like this.



That was uncalled for.


----------



## Levelhead

So is pretty much punking a person down and taking something they paid for.

Just saying.


----------



## japool

Levelhead said:


> So is pretty much punking a person down and taking something they paid for.



I agree.


----------



## Levelhead

japool said:


> I agree.


Just to add. I wish they were recognized and i would treat a ph brother as i would treat any brother from my lodge. 

Im actually against the un recognized crap. Just to clear that up. 

-carl


----------



## samuelrobyn

Levelhead said:


> Just to add. I wish they were recognized and i would treat a ph brother as i would treat any brother from my lodge.
> 
> Im actually against the un recognized crap. Just to clear that up.
> 
> -carl


I never could understand that. Why won't the two come together? is there something stoping that? Also why is it when I talk about freemasonry every expects I'm talking about joint ph is there such a huge difference?


----------



## MaineMason

Levelhead said:


> Just to add. I wish they were recognized and i would treat a ph brother as i would treat any brother from my lodge.
> 
> Im actually against the un recognized crap. Just to clear that up.
> 
> -carl


The Grand Lodge of Maine recognizes PHA. Given the history of Freemasonry in Maine, this is hardly surprising.


----------



## dfreybur

samuelrobyn said:


> I never could understand that.



Always good to hear from folks who treat certain topics as historical curiosities.  When folks talk race I consider Daytona 500.  When folks talk color I consider the color of their uniform (so civilians are rainbow? ;^).  But it has not been thus for long on a Masonic time scale of centuries.



> Why won't the two come together? is there something stoping that?



If you mean unification that gets discussed every now and then, but the two US branches of our family are older than the country.  Many think that much heritage would be lost.  There are plenty of countries in the world with overlapping jurisdictions so the world outside the US does not expect or require unification.



> Also why is it when I talk about freemasonry every expects I'm talking about joint ph is there such a huge difference?



Guys make a guess based on appearance.  All historical these days but the two branches of our family have heritage that influences membership statistics.

The differences are in the details, mostly trivial.  Wear gloves at meetings versus only at funerals.  When to put on the apron.  Singing a song or not.  Mostly the same amount of difference you see when traveling state to state.


----------



## tldubb

My Jurisdiction is one of the oldest amongst PHA and challenges is strictly prohibited.  It should have no place in Masonry,  there is a time and place for such.


----------



## BroBook

Levelhead said:


> How many brothers wear shirts with the 47th problem of Euclid and have no idea how to explain it ?
> 
> Im not going to take a brothers shirt like im smarter and i busted him so im gonna pull rank (not literally).
> 
> NO i sit down with a brother and go over the subject with him. Now he's educated!
> 
> Im starting to realize why PH is not recognized in FL more and more every time i hear stories like this.


Maybe I missed something what does that foolery have to do with racism in masonry? I am PH in fl went from what we call 4 letter to 3 letter, and have never had anyone attempt to take anything nor have I tried, but am 
a big believer if you can't protect it don't wear it, I would strongly suggest that you put it up or give it away, a cousin of mine just gave me a watch and I told "thanks because I did not want to get a call saying he got his arm cut off" :-(


----------



## Levelhead

BroBook said:


> Maybe I missed something what does that foolery have to do with racism in masonry? I am PH in fl went from what we call 4 letter to 3 letter, and have never had anyone attempt to take anything nor have I tried, but am
> a big believer if you can't protect it don't wear it, I would strongly suggest that you put it up or give it away, a cousin of mine just gave me a watch and I told "thanks because I did not want to get a call saying he got his arm cut off" :-(


Dont put racism in my post. That word was not used or insinuated.


----------



## dfreybur

Levelhead said:


> That word was not used or insinuated.



The "ism" word that challenges bring to my mind is professionalism.  The purpose of challenges is to attend a tiled meeting.  Your jurisdiction, your rules/traditions as usual.


----------



## tldubb

dfreybur said:


> The "ism" word that challenges bring to my mind is professionalism.  The purpose of challenges is to attend a tiled meeting.  Your jurisdiction, your rules/traditions as usual.


100% correct Brother defreybur!


----------



## BroBook

dfreybur said:


> The "ism" word that challenges bring to my mind is professionalism.  The purpose of challenges is to attend a tiled meeting.  Your jurisdiction, your rules/traditions as usual.


What about often .... Never & willing


----------



## BroBook

tldubb said:


> My Jurisdiction is one of the oldest amongst PHA and challenges is strictly prohibited.  It should have no place in Masonry,  there is a time and place for such.


Are challenges prohibited or the taking of items? What jurisdiction ?


----------



## BroBook

Levelhead said:


> Dont put racism in my post. That word was not used or insinuated.


Did mean to offend you sir, but you lumped all PHA in one group, plus the mainstream of fl is not a Masonic role model


----------



## dfreybur

BroBook said:


> What about often .... Never & willing



Does not apply when not trying to get into a tiled lodge.  All that stuff is what we are told to keep secret so it doesn't make sense to conduct challenges in public where eavesdroppers can piece it all together one bit at a time.  I get that folks can look it up at the library, but I promised to not help any outsider do that.  Challenges in public hand out a bit at a time.

I should really write "visible to the public" so "in public" is really a shorthand for that.  We can be out in public and whisper something into each others ears.  That's clearly not what is meant by challenges in public.

I'm also puzzled how challenges in public might handle clandestine membership issues.  I can hang out with a man and in minutes know he's a brother as long as I don't care about clandestine membership, but until we get to a tiled meeting I don't need to care about that.  Aren't we supposed to avoid exchanging the secrets with a clandestine member?  Public challenges seem to not take that into account - Except in this case where members of his own lodge are frustrated by one of their own and reacting out of that frustration.


----------



## Morris

This whole thing is silly. You try taking something from me and you will likely get shot. Sounds blunt but it's reality. 
We abide by the laws of the land, and taking someone's property is unlawful. 

Challenging is meant to get into a tiled lodge. And only challenge to the extent to prove he is a MM.


----------



## Warrior1256

Morris said:


> This whole thing is silly. You try taking something from me and you will likely get shot. Sounds blunt but it's reality.
> We abide by the laws of the land, and taking someone's property is unlawful.
> 
> Challenging is meant to get into a tiled lodge. And only challenge to the extent to prove he is a MM.


I feel the same. If anyone tried to take my personal property there would be a problem.


----------



## Levelhead

Morris said:


> This whole thing is silly. You try taking something from me and you will likely get shot. Sounds blunt but it's reality.


Florida = Gunshine State


----------



## Levelhead

BroBook said:


> Did mean to offend you sir, but you lumped all PHA in one group, plus the mainstream of fl is not a Masonic role model


Its all good!


----------



## mrpierce17

Brethren I just wanted to come back to this post and say " if I have said Anything that has offended any of the brethren here that was not my intention and please except my most humble apology . I did not mean to cause such a big issue on the subject  . I guess I was looking at it from the perspective that iron sharpens iron but looking back on things I can see how this could be viewed as negative conduct depending on ones take on the subject , very interesting comments by everyone  by the way ..this will definitely prove helpful in my travels       

                          S&F
                 Bro.R.Pierce


----------



## tldubb

BroBook said:


> Are challenges prohibited or the taking of items? What jurisdiction ?


Yes, it is my Jurisdiction is the MWPHGL Jurisdiction of Pennsylvania, and in our constitution and bylaws doesn't condone "challenges" and or the taking of so called masonic sybalism. I'm sure in your constitution and bylaws like in mine it tells us how we should carry ourselves amongst our brethren outside of lodge settings and amongst "strange brethren". The understanding of masonic intercourse, and how to handle a brother who comes up lacking in that intercourse. 

The only time any type of challenge is when a brother is visiting from another lodge and/ or amiable(recognized with full visitation) foreign jurisdiction and that particular brother is unknown to any of the Brethren present in a tiled lodge. That is when the Worshipful Master sends a committee or a brother to ascertain if the individual is worthy and well qualified to be admitted and only with the WMs permission. Peace!


----------



## bupton52

Taking any items from anyone is a foolish practice. We aren't a part of a gang and we don't steal from brothers.


----------



## goldsquare

bupton52 said:


> Taking any items from anyone is a foolish practice. We aren't a part of a gang and we don't steal from brothers.[
> 
> I remember my grandfather who was a MM would tell me stories of how if you didn't know certain challenges and you had on a ring that it could be taken. After I was raised I was hesitant about wearing the square and compass, however brothers encourage me to do so to ascertain more light in my travels. This motivated me to CRAVE for more knowledge and when you are approached asked about getting more knowledge if you do not know. Stay on the square my brothers and enlighten each other rather than take away,


----------



## EQNUPE

As a FC, I've never worn "Light", but in the realm of BGLO's(Black Greek Letter Organizations),it was common practice. We used it as a way to identify who "Pledged", and who didn't. The problem is, challenge questions are largely regional, and there is no way of authentication of information. I've never done this, and it never has happened to me. At the end of the day, if a "brother" would rather demand my belongings than educate me, he is not a brother. Likewise, if I hand over my belongings, I am in error.


----------



## mrpierce17

EQNUPE said:


> As a FC, I've never worn "Light", but in the realm of BGLO's(Black Greek Letter Organizations),it was common practice. We used it as a way to identify who "Pledged", and who didn't. The problem is, challenge questions are largely regional, and there is no way of authentication of information. I've never done this, and it never has happened to me. At the end of the day, if a "brother" would rather demand my belongings than educate me, he is not a brother. Likewise, if I hand over my belongings, I am in error.[/QUOTE very good answer


----------



## Brother_Steve

mrpierce17 said:


> I know of a brother who was healed over into Prince Hall from international he has been a MM for at least 3 yrs under PHA and every time I see the brother he is Masonic from head to toe he has been warned several times by the craft not to ware anything Masonic until he can defend it he was tried by a brother and could not answer the question asked therefor his jacket was taken ... Long story short the brother is upset about his things being taken from him but what do you do when you have warned a brother about this issue time after time again he feels as if he is being picked on I think he is being tought a valuable lesson in knowing how to protect his emblems ijs ....what do the brothers here think on this subject..


A Mason represents the Craft when he publicly displays the emblem of a Master Mason. It is almost like accepting the job of being one of the many the voices of the Fraternity when out in the public's eye as an individual.

You are going to be approached and asked questions by non masons. You best be able to answer those questions accurately otherwise you should not make yourself visible. Remember the name given to the Entered Apprentice.

Here is my take on it. If the questions are regarding his official proficiencies then he should not be a Master Mason until such time that he can prove it via examination in open lodge. 

If these are chatch-a-kism questions out of a book not sponsored by the MWPHGL then shame on his Brethren for belittling him.


----------



## Bro. David F. Hill

There are some gun-ho brothers (i use this lightly) that play this game.  I have continuously stated on many sites that I do not play this game.   It is people like them that turn people away from the craft.


----------



## Levelhead

Well i mean a MM should be able to answer at the least any of his chetachism answers within the range of his jurisdiction unless hes like 90 and got raised 50 years ago.


----------



## Bro. David F. Hill

Not on the street and not from that little book they use.  I could always pull out my book "Masonry Defined"  and catch many of those same people.  This is what should be going on in study hall.


----------



## Levelhead

On the street lol. Id laugh at someone trying to challenge me on the street. I mean get a life!


----------



## Glen Cook

Levelhead said:


> Well i mean a MM should be able to answer at the least any of his chetachism answers within the range of his jurisdiction unless hes like 90 and got raised 50 years ago.


I didn't view it as being the ability to answer a question, but one brother punishing another for that perceived deficiency. It smacks more of college fraternity hazing than of a brotherhood who venerates the great architect who freely gave his life rather than betray the trust reposed in him.


----------



## Levelhead

Oh i just thought it was questions to be answered.


----------



## Warrior1256

Levelhead said:


> On the street lol. Id laugh at someone trying to challenge me on the street. I mean get a life!


Exactly right. The "challenge" in public is bad enough but if I don't answer to the challenger's satisfaction or refuse to participate he is going to confiscate my personal property? I don't think so.


----------



## Levelhead

I just dont see this happening in florida at all. Everyone is packing heat here. And that pretty much is a robery!


----------



## Warrior1256

Levelhead said:


> I just dont see this happening in florida at all. Everyone is packing heat here. And that pretty much is a robery!


So right! In any southern state where gun rights are a big deal this sort of thing could be dangerous. As you say, taking someone's personal property is actually a crime.


----------



## RyanC

Warrior1256 said:


> So right! In any southern state where gun rights are a big deal this sort of thing could be dangerous. As you say, taking someone's personal property is actually a crime.


Yes it is a crime and someone could get hurt, in the end what is the person trying to prove. I'm smarter than you. I guess in the end the are not meeting on the level or parting by the square.


----------



## Warrior1256

RyanC said:


> Yes it is a crime and someone could get hurt, in the end what is the person trying to prove. I'm smarter than you. I guess in the end the are not meeting on the level or parting by the square.


Whole heartedly agree.


----------



## Dontrell Stroman

I have seen multiple threads about taking brothers "Light/emblems" First, I think it is unmasonic and a crime. After being raised I brought the question up about wearing Masonic emblems. Brothers in my lodge advised me that since I was a master mason now thatvi could, but that I shouldw be proficient in my degree work in case a brother challenged me. I then asked challenged me on what , they then states that there is an unofficial book with q&a about how to defend your emblem. I have only seen this book once, they have it in our lodge. I have never had a brother challenge me rather I have been asked a question that any worthy master mason would know. To be honest if a brother started trying to challenge me, I would probably tell the brother nice meeting you and walk away.


----------



## acjohnson53

I totally agree with u Bruh Traveling man91, I figure if a brother wants to challenge me from whence I came he ought to Pay some of dues cards I got and then challenge on Bruh.....


----------



## MaineMason

It does not occur to me to say anything to a brother let alone take his jacket. At my two lodges, and in the appendent bodies I belong to, we are used to donating jackets, not taking them away. That being said, in my GL jurisdiction it is customary for only MMs to wear Masonic pins, rings, etc. While it is technically improper to wear Scottish or York Rite pins or pocket jewels in Blue Lodge it is seen sometimes. Here, it is up to the Master to decide on that stuff. We recently had officer installation at my affiliate lodge where I am an officer and York and Scottish rite stuff was all over the brethren in the form of lapel pins, rings, and pocket jewels.


----------



## Dontrell Stroman

I'm not sure where all the taking brothers belongings came from. I couldn't sleep right knowing that I took another brothers property. Plain and simple it against my obligation to defraud another mason.


----------



## Bloke

Travelling Man91 said:


> Plain and simple it against my obligation to defraud another mason.



More, defrauding *anyone* is unmasonic behaviour


----------



## mrpierce17

DeusLuxVitam said:


> Do you feel they were discriminating this brother because he was international?


Nope after further investigation and speaking with him it was a member from his original lodge who was also healed into PHA and went back international also the jacket had the international lodge name on it so he no longer cares for it I must say he is now doing well in his travels I posted that a little prematurely without getting all the details my apologies for the confusion I think this boils down to the jacket was from a lodge and affiliation he was no longer a part of and should have been left home in the closet


----------



## PM. Lewis

We do not do this in California.


----------



## acjohnson53

Greeting's PM Lewis/G\


----------



## Warrior1256

PM. Lewis said:


> We do not do this in California.


It would seem that taking someone's personal property (rings, jackets, whatever) could be a dangerous business!


----------



## jermy Bell

When  I became a EA, passed to FC, I was told and reminded that I could not yet wear the light until I was raised. I respected the wishes of my brothers, not to wear the light until I was raised. Then I felt I had earned it.


----------



## Thomas Stright

Warrior1256 said:


> It would seem that taking someone's personal property (rings, jackets, whatever) could be a dangerous business!



It would be for anyone trying to relieve me of anything on my person. 


Sent from my iPhone using My Freemasonry mobile app


----------



## Warrior1256

Thomas Stright said:


> It would be for anyone trying to relieve me of anything on my person.


My sentiments exactly! Someone that I don't know from Adam comes up to me asking me questions requiring me to dispense lawful, Masonic information to them? And if I don't they are going to take my personal property? I don't think so!


----------



## PM. Lewis

acjohnson53 said:


> Greeting's PM Lewis/G\



Greetings Square 


Sent from my iPhone using My Freemasonry mobile app


----------



## Warrior1256

popedecosby said:


> Please can you help me join the Freemason? I am in Ghana Accra and I would be very grateful if you could link me to someone in the fraternity.


This is not the forum for this kind of request!


----------



## Bill Lins

popedecosby said:


> Please can you help me join the Freemason? I am in Ghana Accra and I would be very grateful if you could link me to someone in the fraternity.


The United Grand Lodge of England has a large number of Lodges in Accra. You should be able to locate & contact them locally or look them up on the UGLE website.


----------



## Bill Lins

Apparently you will need to find someone you know there (& who knows you) who can do so.  Good luck.


----------



## Brother_JSavage

Brother_Steve said:


> A Mason represents the Craft when he publicly displays the emblem of a Master Mason. It is almost like accepting the job of being one of the many the voices of the Fraternity when out in the public's eye as an individual.
> 
> You are going to be approached and asked questions by non masons. You best be able to answer those questions accurately otherwise you should not make yourself visible. Remember the name given to the Entered Apprentice.
> 
> Here is my take on it. If the questions are regarding his official proficiencies then he should not be a Master Mason until such time that he can prove it via examination in open lodge.
> 
> If these are chatch-a-kism questions out of a book not sponsored by the MWPHGL then shame on his Brethren for belittling him.







Sent from my iPhone using My Freemasonry mobile app


----------



## Brother_JSavage

Brother_JSavage said:


> Sent from my iPhone using My Freemasonry mobile app



Well that's goes back to the beginning of the craft when we became E.A. When it states "Never been tried Never denied and ready to be tried again" and with him becoming a MM he should know his books so if is ever tried he won't be denied as being a Mason on a M.M. But if he show them his dues card he shouldn't have to give up his masonic jacket 


Sent from my iPhone using My Freemasonry mobile app


----------



## Glen Cook

Brother_JSavage said:


> Well that's goes back to the beginning of the craft when we became E.A. When it states "Never been tried Never denied and ready to be tried again" and with him becoming a MM he should know his books so if is ever tried he won't be denied as being a Mason on a M.M. But if he show them his dues card he shouldn't have to give up his masonic jacket
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using My Freemasonry mobile app


Not all rituals are the same. That is not in the EA in my jurisdiction. 

The points made previously are that there is no place for a trial absent claiming the privileges of a Mason, to include entering lodge. 

Not all GLs have dues cards, I don't show mine without need, and no one except the Government takes my property.


----------



## Ripcord22A

Brother_JSavage said:


> Well that's goes back to the beginning of the craft when we became E.A. When it states "Never been tried Never denied and ready to be tried again" and with him becoming a MM he should know his books so if is ever tried he won't be denied as being a Mason on a M.M. But if he show them his dues card he shouldn't have to give up his masonic jacket
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using My Freemasonry mobile app


Ive heard...."often been tried...." 
As Glen said above, no one trashes my property

Sent from my LG-H918 using My Freemasonry mobile app


----------



## Warrior1256

Glen Cook said:


> no one except the Government takes my property.





Ripcord22A said:


> no one trashes my property


Anyone that attempts to take my personal property may end up with assorted lumps, bumps, bruises and abrasions.


----------



## Ripcord22A

Warrior1256 said:


> Anyone that attempts to take my personal property may end up with assorted lumps, bumps, bruises and abrasions.


Got ur cane ready do ya?

Sent from my LG-H918 using My Freemasonry mobile app


----------



## Warrior1256

Ripcord22A said:


> Got ur cane ready do ya?
> 
> Sent from my LG-H918 using My Freemasonry mobile app


Lol....don't use a cane Bro, I'm still strong, fast and accurate.


----------



## Brother JC

Cane Fu... look it up.


----------



## Glen Cook

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baritsu


----------



## oldjumpmaster

Unfortunately, this was a common theme in many of the Military Lodges in Europe. It deals with catechism and a question and answer session. For instance, if an individual would place a Masonic emblem on their car it was not unusual for brothers to be met with examination by an individual using their hand to cover up the emblem while receiving answers to their questions. If answered correctly they would uncover their “light” or emblem, if they could not answer the questions it was common that the emblem would be removed from the car. Hence, “protecting” your light. Basically, if you cannot pass an examination you should study and gain proficiency before displaying masonic emblems. Though many brothers attempted to utilize this method as a form of forcing proficiency, regrettably, it sometimes left a bad taste in an individual’s mouth.


----------



## Warrior1256

oldjumpmaster said:


> For instance, if an individual would place a Masonic emblem on their car it was not unusual for brothers to be met with examination by an individual using their hand to cover up the emblem while receiving answers to their questions. If answered correctly they would uncover their “light” or emblem, if they could not answer the questions it was common that the emblem would be removed from the car. Hence, “protecting” your light. Basically, if you cannot pass an examination you should study and gain proficiency before displaying masonic emblems. Though many brothers attempted to utilize this method as a form of forcing proficiency, regrettably, it sometimes left a bad taste in an individual’s mouth.


As I have said before, if someone that I have never laid eyes on before starts asking me questions that will require me to divulge lawful, Masonic information I'd refuse to do so. If that person then decided that because of my refusal that they were going to "take" my personal property....they would have a really big, and probably painful, problem.


----------



## Glen Cook

oldjumpmaster said:


> Unfortunately, this was a common theme in many of the Military Lodges in Europe. It deals with catechism and a question and answer session. For instance, if an individual would place a Masonic emblem on their car it was not unusual for brothers to be met with examination by an individual using their hand to cover up the emblem while receiving answers to their questions. If answered correctly they would uncover their “light” or emblem, if they could not answer the questions it was common that the emblem would be removed from the car. Hence, “protecting” your light. Basically, if you cannot pass an examination you should study and gain proficiency before displaying masonic emblems. Though many brothers attempted to utilize this method as a form of forcing proficiency, regrettably, it sometimes left a bad taste in an individual’s mouth.


Should that happen to me on base, their CO and I would be having a word.


----------



## Warrior1256

Glen Cook said:


> Should that happen to me on base, their CO and I would be having a word.


Exactly. I believe that under the UCMJ, as well as in civilian law, this would be called THEFT.


----------



## oldjumpmaster

I don’t believe it ever got to the level of violence or talking with anyone’s command. Not sure of your familiarity of military lodges, however, a majority of the brothers are acquainted with one another due to the proximity. Again, not condoning this action or agreeing with the reasoning, just sharing some insight on what I’ve witnessed many years ago in Germany.


----------



## Warrior1256

oldjumpmaster said:


> Again, not condoning this action or agreeing with the reasoning,


Understood. It's just that I've seen this topic discussed many times on this forum and it just burns me up that someone would think that they have the right to be judge and jury and simply take the property of someone else. Lol....I guess that you could say that this is a pet peeve of mine.


----------



## oldjumpmaster

Understood, now that I know what your PP is I'll make sure to rehash this occasionally to keep you on your toes .


----------



## Warrior1256

oldjumpmaster said:


> Understood, now that I know what your PP is I'll make sure to rehash this occasionally to keep you on your toes .


Lol, sounds like a plan!


----------



## Ripcord22A

oldjumpmaster said:


> Understood, now that I know what your PP is I'll make sure to rehash this occasionally to keep you on your toes .


Spoken like a CSM...."Hey ya know what Joe hates?...sweeping the motor pool.....lets make them do that, every week, maybe even twice a week!"....lol

Sent from my LG-H918 using My Freemasonry mobile app


----------



## oldjumpmaster

They only hate it if you let them hate it. Besides there is nothing like a clean motor pool floor. They’ll appreciate you for it later.


----------



## hwood

This makes me sick to think a brother would do this to another brother. I think some people have forgotten what it means to be a true Mason. 
I for one would only offer you my hand outside a recognized lodge. 


Sent from my iPhone using My Freemasonry


----------



## Warrior1256

Ripcord22A said:


> Spoken like a CSM...."Hey ya know what Joe hates?...sweeping the motor pool.....lets make them do that, every week, maybe even twice a week!"....lol





oldjumpmaster said:


> They only hate it if you let them hate it. Besides there is nothing like a clean motor pool floor. They’ll appreciate you for it later.


Lol!!!


----------



## Warrior1256

hwood said:


> This makes me sick to think a brother would do this to another brother. I think some people have forgotten what it means to be a true Mason.
> I for one would only offer you my hand outside a recognized lodge.


Exactly!


----------



## oldjumpmaster

Warrior1256, just when you thought you had it put to bed! Your PP is brought to the surface again. It wasn't even me this time. Someone else is keeping you on your toes! Lol


----------



## goomba

As a Mason I am in the search of light.

If that search (spiritual or physical) is attained from taking light from another I do not wish to receive that light.  If anyone wishes to wear something they are free to do so.  The greatest light a brother can have is within and we should strive to help that light grow.  I could not imagine using my "superior" "knowledge" to take away from a "lesser" brother.

Story time from Uncle Goomba:

While on active duty (US Army) 1SG Green* was approached by SFC Brown.  SFC Brown instantly went to parade rest an then addressed 1SG Green.  This was odd and 1SG Green was known for not requiring anyone to stand at parade rest.  He knew he was a 1SG.  When SFC Brown walked away 1SG Green said "When SPC Green reported for duty at Fort Maroon SGT Brown treated him like crap.  Now SFC Brown knows to always address 1SG Green as 1SG and to always stand at parade rest.  NCO's look to your left.  Tomorrow that Soldier may be on your right."

Thus ends the story.

*names have been changed to protect the innocent lol

For those of you who have never served I'll give a simple break down.  In a platoon formation the squad leaders stand at the far right and individuals to their left are by seniority.  Green was Brown's subordinate at one point.  However, Green was squared away and eventually outranked Brown.

The Mason you take from today may be your Worshipful Master,  Grand Master, or the one to come to your aid tomorrow.  We are builders and we are brothers!

Crazy long ass rant over.


----------



## Warrior1256

oldjumpmaster said:


> Warrior1256, just when you thought you had it put to bed! Your PP is brought to the surface again. It wasn't even me this time. Someone else is keeping you on your toes! Lol


Yeah, I can handle it...lol.


goomba said:


> If that search (spiritual or physical) is attained from taking light from another I do not wish to receive that light.





goomba said:


> The Mason you take from today may be your Worshipful Master, Grand Master, or the one to come to your aid tomorrow. We are builders and we are brothers!


Absolutely!


----------



## lilhut3579

I get the idea, but honestly him being healed in a just lawfully constituted lodge, being a member in good standing, holding a current dues card is all the protection he needs.


----------



## Ripcord22A

lilhut3579 said:


> I get the idea, but honestly him being healed in a just lawfully constituted lodge, being a member in good standing, holding a current dues card is all the protection he needs.


He doesnt even need that....his ring hat car emblem ect ect IS PRIVATE PROPERTY!  A private citizen can display what ever they want as long as they arent trying to defraud some one.  Such as someone wearing a FULL set of military camo amd saying things that make non military think they are in the military.  Shoot they dont even have to say anything. Most places offer some.kind of military discount so wearing the uniform is getting them something they havent earned.

Wearing or displaying a S&C or a double balled cane wont get you anything except a wave and a hand shake, maybe a conversation if you have time.

Sent from my LG-H918 using My Freemasonry mobile app


----------



## GKA

I sometimes wish we did that, it is irritating to see an EA, wearing, a "masonic" ball cap, with accompanying jacket, pins, ring, masonic lighter etc etc


----------



## goomba

GKA said:


> I sometimes wish we did that, it is irritating to see an EA, wearing, a "masonic" ball cap, with accompanying jacket, pins, ring, masonic lighter etc etc



If it's against your Grand Lodge code handle it that way. But the idea of stealing from another is unmasonic.


----------



## GKA

goomba said:


> If it's against your Grand Lodge code handle it that way. But the idea of stealing from another is unmasonic.



I do not think that the OP was implying the theft of anything, I read it as confiscation to prevent the brother from displaying the colors of that lodge, I assumed that it would be returned to him once he was found proficient.
I also assumed that whatever action taken by the brethren of that lodge would be in accordance with their by-laws


----------



## goomba

GKA said:


> I do not think that the OP was implying the theft of anything, I read it as confiscation to prevent the brother from displaying the colors of that lodge, I assumed that it would be returned to him once he was found proficient.
> I also assumed that whatever action taken by the brethren of that lodge would be in accordance with their by-laws


I'm a law enforcement officer, you literally just discribed theft at a minimum in every legal jurisdiction I've worked.  

The Grand Lodge of Alabama have an edict or constitutional rule saying only Master Masons can display our fraternal emblems. This and only this is only avenue of discipline within that Grand Lodge. But then it's not too stop or take items. It's because they aren't following our rules.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


----------



## GKA

You may call it what you wish brother, but........if the ability to do so is sanctified by their GL, and the brethren of that jurisdiction agree to it, then I would have to say that "theft" is a strong and improper word for it.
But hey, thats just my opinion


----------



## Warrior1256

Ripcord22A said:


> He doesnt even need that....his ring hat car emblem ect ect IS PRIVATE PROPERTY!


Exactly!!!!!


goomba said:


> If it's against your Grand Lodge code handle it that way. But the idea of stealing from another is unmasonic.


...and attempting to take someone's personal property could be hazardous to your health!


----------



## Warrior1256

goomba said:


> I'm a law enforcement officer, you literally just discribed theft at a minimum in every legal jurisdiction I've worked.


Absolutely right! It dosen't matter what a GL sanctions. City, county, state and federal law trumps GL rules.


----------



## Ripcord22A

GKA said:


> I do not think that the OP was implying the theft of anything, I read it as confiscation to prevent the brother from displaying the colors of that lodge, I assumed that it would be returned to him once he was found proficient.
> I also assumed that whatever action taken by the brethren of that lodge would be in accordance with their by-laws


No Brother, they are talking about see some random person wearing a ring hat ect and asking questions(read:strict trail or due examination) to see if the wearer is in fact a Mason and if not then take it from them, forcibly if necessary.  Now ive seen degrees in 4 jurisdictions and all of their obligations are different and all of their questions are different...no way i pass..... say....Minnesota's(a jurisdiction ive never sat in) catechism if some rando just comes up and starts asking questions.

Both of the jurisdictions i belong to have rules that only MM can wear a piece of jewelry or display our emblems on our cars.  But nothing about wearing a hat with the lodge name and number on it

Sent from my LG-H918 using My Freemasonry mobile app


----------



## GKA

Thank you for the clarification brother, I was off the mark on that one, lol


----------



## LK600

GKA said:


> You may call it what you wish brother, but........if the ability to do so is sanctified by their GL, and the brethren of that jurisdiction agree to it, then I would have to say that "theft" is a strong and improper word for it.
> But hey, thats just my opinion


Maybe, but to be clear... whether it is sanctioned or not is irrelevant to the fact that it is a crime and will get you arrested. (ex-law enforcement myself)


----------



## Thomas Stright

LK600 said:


> Maybe, but to be clear... whether it is sanctioned or not is irrelevant to the fact that it is a crime and will get you arrested. (ex-law enforcement myself)



Arrested?   It'll get you shot here....


----------



## LK600

Thomas Stright said:


> Arrested?   It'll get you shot here....


lol... yes... that to.


----------



## GKA

We are obviously talking about two different things, perhaps if I clarify it better...
If the offending brother were asked to surrender said property until he was found worthy of wearing it.
I do not condone the forced action


----------



## goomba

Grand Lodges are adminstrative bodies of the Craft, nothing else. They are not a source of morality.  In a court room they are a admin body of a private club.

The laws of the government aren't a source of morality. Saying taking property from another without their consent is illegal is not a moral concept. Someone believing the taking is justified does not change the legality. 

If the Craft ever teaches to take from another by force is unmasonic  I believe it's violating a principle teaching. Master Mason's sound immediately recognize this teaching and think back to whom they represented. 

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


----------



## goomba

GKA said:


> We are obviously talking about two different things, perhaps if I clarify it better...
> If the offending brother were asked to surrender said property until he was found worthy of wearing it.
> I do not condone the forced action


It's good to know you are not talking about confiscating the property of another person and rationalizing that action under Masonic authority. 

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


----------



## GKA

goomba said:


> Grand Lodges are adminstrative bodies of the Craft, nothing else. They are not a source of morality.  In a court room they are a admin body of a private club.
> 
> The laws of the government aren't a source of morality. Saying taking property from another without their consent is illegal is not a moral concept. Someone believing the taking is justified does not change the legality.
> 
> If the Craft ever teaches to take from another by force is unmasonic  I believe it's violating a principle teaching. Master Mason's sound immediately recognize this teaching and think back to whom they represented.
> 
> Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk



Just to be clear, I never said, nor did I imply that anything should be taken from any brother by force.


----------



## LK600

GKA said:


> We are obviously talking about two different things, perhaps if I clarify it better...
> If the offending brother were asked to surrender said property until he was found worthy of wearing it.
> I do not condone the forced action


Nor did I ever think you were.  I was trying to be clear that taking someone else's belongings (whether earned or not or lodge/grand lodge approved or not) is illegal.  Beyond that, I also think it is a bad idea for any WM or brother to have another brother surrender any belonging to them.  You will be taking a huge risk.  (coercion, etc)


----------



## Ripcord22A

GKA said:


> We are obviously talking about two different things, perhaps if I clarify it better...
> If the offending brother were asked to surrender said property until he was found worthy of wearing it.
> I do not condone the forced action


I disagree, tell him that according to GL rules he cant wear it, amd should take it off, if he refuses then speak the the JW and let him the SW and WM handle it from there.

Sent from my LG-H918 using My Freemasonry mobile app


----------



## goomba

LK600 said:


> Nor did I ever think you were.  I was trying to be clear that taking someone else's belongings (whether earned or not or lodge/grand lodge approved or not) is illegal.  Beyond that, I also think it is a bad idea for any WM or brother to have another brother surrender any belonging to them.  You will be taking a huge risk.  (coercion, etc)



Yep. This bigger issue is the person not following GL rules. We should follow of rules. Give the new brother guidance if he doesn't want to comply then he shouldn't be in our Craft.  

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


----------



## LK600

goomba said:


> Give the new brother guidance if he doesn't want to comply then he shouldn't be in our Craft.



This.


----------



## Warrior1256

LK600 said:


> Maybe, but to be clear... whether it is sanctioned or not is irrelevant to the fact that it is a crime and will get you arrested. (ex-law enforcement myself)


Absolutely!


goomba said:


> The laws of the government aren't a source of morality. Saying taking property from another without their consent is illegal is not a moral concept. Someone believing the taking is justified does not change the legality.


Right!


LK600 said:


> or did I ever think you were. I was trying to be clear that taking someone else's belongings (whether earned or not or lodge/grand lodge approved or not) is illegal. Beyond that,


Yep!


LK600 said:


> Beyond that, I also think it is a bad idea for any WM or brother to have another brother surrender any belonging to them. You will be taking a huge risk. (coercion, etc)


Also true!


Ripcord22A said:


> tell him that according to GL rules he cant wear it, amd should take it off, if he refuses then speak the the JW and let him the SW and WM handle it from there.


Right!


goomba said:


> Give the new brother guidance if he doesn't want to comply then he shouldn't be in our Craft.


Also true.


----------



## Glen Cook

In another forum, I asked a defender of this practice a question on the list.  He couldn't answer it. I asked for his ring. He stopped his advocacy. I may continue that as a practice.


----------



## goomba

Another Master Mason and I were just having fun. We were asking each other the questions from our jurisdictions. He said "you missed a word". I said "that word isn't in this section of my Grand Lodge". 

Things are similar 3 X 2 = 6. But so does 2 x 3, 6 x 1, etc.  The grips aren't universal, the words aren't universal, the ritual isn't either. What is universal is the spirit. It transcends our limited understanding. 

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


----------



## Warrior1256

Glen Cook said:


> In another forum, I asked a defender of this practice a question on the list. He couldn't answer it. I asked for his ring. He stopped his advocacy. I may continue that as a practice.


Lol! Great!

This is a pet peeve of mine. What rational person would believe that they have a right to take someone's personal property because that person can not / would not answer their questions??? The whole idea is just ridiculous!


----------



## MarkR

Glen Cook said:


> In another forum, I asked a defender of this practice a question on the list.  He couldn't answer it. I asked for his ring. He stopped his advocacy. I may continue that as a practice.


With the price of gold these days, you could probably make a nice part-time job out of this!


----------



## CLewey44

Should be retitled "Having Your Life Taken" because I know some brothers that would put a gun to a person's head if they tried to take their personal items over some Q&A session.


----------



## Warrior1256

MarkR said:


> With the price of gold these days, you could probably make a nice part-time job out of this!


Lol!


CLewey44 said:


> Should be retitled "Having Your Life Taken" because I know some brothers that would put a gun to a person's head if they tried to take their personal items over some Q&A session.


Actually, a very real concern!


----------



## acjohnson53

I don't condone quote "Taking someones Light", cause if they approach the wrong person it might not be nice, But I do believe in educating brothers...or in a public environment I would simply this is not the time or the place to discuss this and keep it moving...or if approached wrong I would sell it to them. Cause Masonic Junk is not cheap....Lol


----------



## Warrior1256

acjohnson53 said:


> I don't condone quote "Taking someones Light", cause if they approach the wrong person it might not be nice,


VERY true!


acjohnson53 said:


> in a public environment I would simply this is not the time or the place to discuss this and keep it moving


Also true.


----------



## mika Breland

mrpierce17 said:


> I know of a brother who was healed over into Prince Hall from international he has been a MM for at least 3 yrs under PHA and every time I see the brother he is Masonic from head to toe he has been warned several times by the craft not to ware anything Masonic until he can defend it he was tried by a brother and could not answer the question asked therefor his jacket was taken ... Long story short the brother is upset about his things being taken from him but what do you do when you have warned a brother about this issue time after time again he feels as if he is being picked on I think he is being tought a valuable lesson in knowing how to protect his emblems ijs ....what do the brothers here think on this subject..





mrpierce17 said:


> I know of a brother who was healed over into Prince Hall from international he has been a MM for at least 3 yrs under PHA and every time I see the brother he is Masonic from head to toe he has been warned several times by the craft not to ware anything Masonic until he can defend it he was tried by a brother and could not answer the question asked therefor his jacket was taken ... Long story short the brother is upset about his things being taken from him but what do you do when you have warned a brother about this issue time after time again he feels as if he is being picked on I think he is being tought a valuable lesson in knowing how to protect his emblems ijs ....what do the brothers here think on this subject..[/QUOTE
> Good evenin...coming from a Sistar,before a brother or Sistar decides to head to toe know what it is he/she is wearing hit the books so when he/she is called out he/she will know how to answer when being questioned bout your embel,your color,lodge or chapter


----------



## Ripcord22A

Not that easy.  The questions that PHA would ask, our branch of the family tree wouldn't necessarily know.  Also why would someone think it ok to question another person they don't know from Adam about something then try to take it.  Maybe the person isnt a Mason and just wearing their grandpas ring, maybe they are a Mason and just don't understand what's being asked, maybe and this would be me they aren't going to be tried in public.....why do y'all think its ok to do this?

Sent from my LG-H918 using My Freemasonry mobile app


----------



## mika Breland

Ripcord22A said:


> Not that easy.  The questions that PHA would ask, our branch of the family tree wouldn't necessarily know.  Also why would someone think it ok to question another person they don't know from Adam about something then try to take it.  Maybe the person isnt a Mason and just wearing their grandpas ring, maybe they are a Mason and just don't understand what's being asked, maybe and this would be me they aren't going to be tried in public.....why do y'all think its ok to do this?
> 
> Sent from my LG-H918 using My Freemasonry mobile app


You are right but it is also good to have knowledge for what you stand for is all I am saying,so if an individual is questioned


----------



## Elexir

mika Breland said:


> You are right but it is also good to have knowledge for what you stand for is all I am saying,so if an individual is questioned



The problem is that ritual differs between juristictions wich can mean that something that is important in one juristiction might be completly diffrent in another.


----------



## mika Breland

Elexir said:


> The problem is that ritual differs between juristictions wich can mean that something that is important in one juristiction might be completly diffrent in another.


You are very correct Elexir,rituals are different in some jurisdiction as time goes on for me I have learned alot and still learning in the light that I am traveling


----------



## Warrior1256

Ripcord22A said:


> Also why would someone think it ok to question another person they don't know from Adam about something then try to take it.


Exactly!


Ripcord22A said:


> Not that easy. The questions that PHA would ask, our branch of the family tree wouldn't necessarily know.





Elexir said:


> The problem is that ritual differs between juristictions wich can mean that something that is important in one juristiction might be completly diffrent in another.


Absolutely!


----------



## PH3-427

I know when I was raised (in a PHA Lodge in FL) I was warned about wearing Masonic Jewelry before I could defend it. However, I was instructed on the proper way to do so. Being in the military I have ran into brothers from jurisdictions that don't do catches, even further some do catches that aren't common in most rituals. What I'm getting at is it's jurisdictional, but it's always safe to train newly raised bros. I know I was talking to a bro who I knew to be on the Square and I hit him with a catch and he returned with one that made me go back and look through my books. We had a laugh after but definitely opened my eyes. 

Sent from my SM-G928V using My Freemasonry mobile app


----------



## Warrior1256

PH3-427 said:


> I know I was talking to a bro who I knew to be on the Square and I hit him with a catch and he returned with one that made me go back and look through my books. We had a laugh after but definitely opened my eyes.


Totally understandable. But this is a pet peeve of mine. What in the world makes someone think that they have the right to take someone's personal property from them simply because IN THEIR OPINION ONLY the other person didn't answer a question properly. I believe that this is called theft.


----------



## CLewey44

Warrior1256 said:


> Totally understandable. But this is a pet peeve of mine. What in the world makes someone think that they have the right to take someone's personal property from them simply because IN THEIR OPINION ONLY the other person didn't answer a question properly. I believe that this is called theft.


Yeah, this seems like a dangerous practice and really what does potentially humiliating someone because they couldn't answer some obscure Masonic question have to do with 'whispering good counsel' etc.


----------



## Ripcord22A

I'm a CCW holder...ijs 


Sent from my iPhone using My Freemasonry


----------



## Warrior1256

CLewey44 said:


> Yeah, this seems like a dangerous practice and really what does potentially humiliating someone because they couldn't answer some obscure Masonic question have to do with 'whispering good counsel' etc.


Yes!


Ripcord22A said:


> I'm a CCW holder...ijs


As are many, many other people. Something to seriously keep in mind before practicing such an outlandish, dangerous act.


----------



## goomba

Warrior1256 said:


> Yes!
> 
> As are many, many other people. Something to seriously keep in mind before practicing such an outlandish, dangerous act.


I think that's the point.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


----------



## PH3-427

I was told there were a few places that do it mainly University Lodges or strict Military Lodges. Now I want to be clear that I'm not bashing anyone for their practices. I was brought up in a military lodge and when I was told some places did that I had the mindset of "I wish someone would." I know I didn't wear my first ring or necklace until about 6 months ago and I was raised in 2013. I've met with a lot of flack on different thing to include: open, closing, training, even instructing new bruhs on how to trace their lodge legitimacy through UGLE, Lodge history, and Prince Hall history. I've been told that's the military lodge way or "southern way". Further instilling a difference in jurisdictions. I have also heard people getting their dues card confiscated as well so there are some crazy things going on. However, you train your people and they understand the magnitude of wear their light in public and what it represents you should have this issue. My biggest fear was disappointing the PMs and Bros when they would hit me with a catch. If I couldn't answer they'd shake their head and walk off, to me that's worse. But, lastly bruhs (sorry for the long essay), but we are also obligated to protect ourselves, family and property and with how things are going now days just be careful. We definitely need to educate one another because things were different back in the day. I'm 26 and have moved around with the military and seen the changes in places so just be careful.

Sent from my SM-G928V using My Freemasonry mobile app


----------



## CLewey44

Ripcord22A said:


> I'm a CCW holder...ijs
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using My Freemasonry


 Lol, yes which alludes back to my original post on here before, this forum could be called 'Having Your Life Taken"....


----------



## David612

No one has the right.. no idea why anyone would try to enforce something like this.


----------



## Warrior1256

CLewey44 said:


> this forum could be called 'Having Your Life Taken"....


True!


David612 said:


> No one has the right.. no idea why anyone would try to enforce something like this.


Also true!


----------



## goomba

The practice speaks of arrogance.  Forget the ritual differences and for a moments lets assume magically they all because identical.  However, each grand lodge kept its current advancement requirements.  Here we would still have an issue.  Lets say a brother has never learned a Q&A format of Masonic education.  Lets say that same brother is a published Masonic author.  Do you really think because you know a question with a predetermined answer that this brother doesn't that you are uniquely qualified to take his property?  My thoughts for this example would be our late Brother John J. Robinson.  Before he was an EA he had already written one of  the most popular Masonic books in modern history.

So while he probably couldn't answer a question the day he was raised in the Q&A situation he could school you on Masonic history and his theory.  The same goes for Brother Manly P. Hall.  The day he became a MM he may not have known ritually why he became a MM.  But I would venture the vast majority of Freemasons today couldn't hold a flame to him regarding esoterics at the end of their Masonic life compared to him before he was initiated.  

I see no part relating to Friendship, Morality, and Brotherly Love that fits into "give me your stuff.  you don't know what I think you should."


----------



## Warrior1256

goomba said:


> The practice speaks of arrogance





goomba said:


> Do you really think because you know a question with a predetermined answer that this brother doesn't that you are uniquely qualified to take his property?





goomba said:


> I see no part relating to Friendship, Morality, and Brotherly Love that fits into "give me your stuff. you don't know what I think you should."


Absolutely....very well said!


----------



## LK600

goomba said:


> The practice speaks of arrogance.  Forget the ritual differences and for a moments lets assume magically they all because identical.  However, each grand lodge kept its current advancement requirements.  Here we would still have an issue.  Lets say a brother has never learned a Q&A format of Masonic education.  Lets say that same brother is a published Masonic author.  Do you really think because you know a question with a predetermined answer that this brother doesn't that you are uniquely qualified to take his property?  My thoughts for this example would be our late Brother John J. Robinson.  Before he was an EA he had already written one of  the most popular Masonic books in modern history.
> 
> So while he probably couldn't answer a question the day he was raised in the Q&A situation he could school you on Masonic history and his theory.  The same goes for Brother Manly P. Hall.  The day he became a MM he may not have known ritually why he became a MM.  But I would venture the vast majority of Freemasons today couldn't hold a flame to him regarding esoterics at the end of their Masonic life compared to him before he was initiated.
> 
> I see no part relating to Friendship, Morality, and Brotherly Love that fits into "give me your stuff.  you don't know what I think you should."


Well said!


----------



## LK600

I'd be fine with Brothers testing me, but not taking my things.  If I was found lacking, then be my Brother and help me.  In my current level, many Brothers know more than me in reference to memorization of Q & A, but I also know a great deal more than some of them concerning other things about the Craft (from years of reading/study).  From my point of view... everything I gain in Masonry is priceless... so how do you think things are going to go when someone tries to take something that is priceless to me?


----------



## Warrior1256

LK600 said:


> I'd be fine with Brothers testing me,


I feel the same if it is someone that I know to be a Freemason. However, if someone that I don't know from Adam came up to me on the street and started asking me to reveal lawful Masonic information I'd tell them to take a hike.


LK600 said:


> From my point of view... everything I gain in Masonry is priceless... so how do you think things are going to go when someone tries to take something that is priceless to me?


Agreed.


----------



## acjohnson53

Everyone has some good feed back on this topic, but if I'm approached by someone, i will make it known that this is not the time or place to challenge me on my knowledge of Masonry and ill be off. if they persist to question me then i would report them, because that is unbecoming of a Master Mason. My theory is "To reach one Teach One..."If it so important for you to challenge me teach me how to wear my light...


----------



## acjohnson53

In all my years in Masonry, I've been challenged once.


----------



## David612

I think if someone tried to steal from someone be they a brother or not they would end up quite hurt, honestly as long as the person isn’t holding a weapon I know I wouldn’t just hand over my belongings because someone insists.


----------



## Bloke

David612 said:


> ...I know I wouldn’t just hand over my belongings because someone insists.



You've obviously not married


----------



## Bloke

Bloke said:


> You've obviously not married


or divorced lol


----------



## David612

Haha married 6 years and togeather 12, trIck is to have things she dosnt want


----------



## Overworked724

David612 said:


> Haha married 6 years and togeather 12, trIck is to have things she dosnt want



Ok...that is one very wise piece of advice. 


Sent from my iPhone using My Freemasonry mobile app


----------



## Warrior1256

acjohnson53 said:


> if I'm approached by someone, i will make it known that this is not the time or place to challenge me on my knowledge of Masonry and ill be off. i


Exactly!


David612 said:


> I think if someone tried to steal from someone be they a brother or not they would end up quite hurt, honestly as long as the person isn’t holding a weapon I know I wouldn’t just hand over my belongings because someone insists.


Yes!


Bloke said:


> You've obviously not married





Bloke said:


> or divorced lol


Lol!


----------



## Daniel Parker

First off as far as MWPHGL of Illinois thats not done. I have also been Healed from an international lodge but we prided ourselves on knowing our ish. As a Master Mason in P.H. it is highly recommended you attend school of instruction and lecture at least once a month. I wish a brother would try it. There are easy ways to shut that line of questioning down (Mine for yours). I'll be off from ya and leave ya wondering. I DO NOT have to play 100 questions with you. I'll mess ya head up and go straight biblical. A BROTHER should be treated better by his brothers. Period. Travel Light Brethren.


----------



## Glen Cook

Daniel Parker said:


> First off as far as MWPHGL of Illinois thats not done. I have also been Healed from an international lodge but we prided ourselves on knowing our ish. As a Master Mason in P.H. it is highly recommended you attend school of instruction and lecture at least once a month. I wish a brother would try it. There are easy ways to shut that line of questioning down (Mine for yours). I'll be off from ya and leave ya wondering. I DO NOT have to play 100 questions with you. I'll mess ya head up and go straight biblical. A BROTHER should be treated better by his brothers. Period. Travel Light Brethren.


That was a two year old post.


----------



## Daniel Parker

Glen Cook said:


> That was a two year old post.


Yet, you too responded. The information still stands true. Just as I remarked on a thread from 2 yrs ago..you sir did the same. Travel Light brother.


----------



## Glen Cook

Daniel Parker said:


> Yet, you too responded. The information still stands true. Just as I remarked on a thread from 2 yrs ago..you sir did the same. Travel Light brother.


Umm, no, I responded to a post from today, but I don’t want to do a back and forth in the matter, and will leave it there.


----------



## David612

the failings of this forum are;
A. Randoms wanting to join online.
B. Necroposting


----------



## Brother_Steve

David612 said:


> the failings of this forum are;
> A. Randoms wanting to join online.
> B. Necroposting


Sometimes you read an old thread via a site or Google search, become passionate, forget where/when you are and reply.

I've done it hear and elsewhere on accident. The reply was on topic. What would you rather have, a repost?


----------



## jermy Bell

My masonic light of mine, I'm gonna let it shine , let it shine let it shine. Let it shine.

 Ok I'm done.


----------



## Glen Cook

jermy Bell said:


> My masonic light of mine, I'm gonna let it shine , let it shine let it shine. Let it shine.
> 
> Ok I'm done.


I had to sing that in my head, you know.


----------



## David612

Brother_Steve said:


> Sometimes you read an old thread via a site or Google search, become passionate, forget where/when you are and reply.
> 
> I've done it hear and elsewhere on accident. The reply was on topic. What would you rather have, a repost?


Yes.
A current post with current participants is always better than continuing an old post.
Extra true when the subject was pretty iffy to begin with.


----------



## TonyT2020

MarkR said:


> I'm not a fan of the idea that a Mason can be compelled to "defend" his property or have it taken from him.  Taking someone's property by force or threat of force is a crime in pretty much every state, and not something Masons should be doing.  However, I'm not a Prince Hall Mason, so it's just my opinion.


Totally agreed; a different approach is needed in my opinion.


----------



## Warrior1256

TonyT2020 said:


> Totally agreed; a different approach is needed in my opinion.


Totally agree! This is a pet peeve of mine. If someone would try to take my personal property from me they are likely to have a rude awakening....and a painful one at that.


----------

