# is freemasonry what you thought it would be when you first joined?



## • RM (Jan 13, 2019)

I'd say in some ways yes .. in other ways some improvements could be made. When speaking to a potential new candidate the question came up. Caught me a little by surprise.. thoughts ?


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## Brother JC (Jan 13, 2019)

Not really. It was there, but buried in rubble. I had to look to other lodges for inspiration and then help create change from within my own.


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## Bloke (Jan 14, 2019)

I went in with a fairly open mind, not really knowing what to expect but I found the values expounded to be there.. and the fraternal aspect of my lodge was strong, so yes, by not having strong fixed expectations and a wiliness to walk away, it actually exceeded my expectations..  One of the problems with the Craft is you do not get to really try before you buy..


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## coachn (Jan 14, 2019)

• RM said:


> is freemasonry what you thought it would be when you first joined?


Nope.  But it took me several years to first realize this and then several years more to finally figure out why the overwhelming hype doesn't come anywhere close to matching the reality.


• RM said:


> I'd say in some ways yes .. in other ways some improvements could be made. When speaking to a potential new candidate the question came up. Caught me a little by surprise.. thoughts ?


The reality of Freemasonry is brilliantly masked by three centuries of obfuscation that uses a barrage of romantic notions, wishful thinking and misleading words that even its most prominent and most learned members use, unaware themselves of the game a foot. 

Fortunately, the game is one of moral purpose and most members ignorantly stumble toward that end even when they make every effort to fight it.


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## CLewey44 (Jan 14, 2019)

I expected better facilities, on point ritual, deep conversations, respectfully dressed, little to no banter, a meal not from a chain pizza place on paper plates, etc. The ingredients were there ritually, but it didn't click much until I had seen it again and after reading on it in literature. I always wonder, what if 50 years ago they weren't so concerned with keeping 4M members but more about quality and had actually raised dues in line with European lodges, kept their buildings nice and either classically old (not 70s engineering old) or up to date and modern what the fraternity in the U.S. would be like. They had a 50/50 choice there and chose the wrong 50.  I think we are in the middle of the 'crisis' and small lodges will continue to close left and right. Eventually the 'larger' ones will close when people simply stop paying their dues due to lack of interest.

I would imagine raising them too much now wouldn't help a whole heap since men that haven't been in lodge for 5, 10, 20 or 30 years (and they make up about 80% of lodge 'membership) would be angry about paying $300 a year with the expectation that lodge would still fail to deliver like it always has. Then, they'd simply stop paying and the lodge would be paying the tab. I think scrapping most lodges and just completely starting over is the best answer in many cases. Consolidating, which is unpopular I've seen on here before, but it'd allow for better growth as a lodge and a better experience keeping members engaged, not just paying dues so they get a Masonic funeral like that is going to matter to them once they are deceased. These lodges that have 150 members and 8-12 (4 of which actually pull the load as we discussed recently) show up regularly is absolutely ridiculous and really pointless. It becomes a burden on those active members killing their outlook on Masonry themselves.

I think Masonry, hopefully, will settle in between 100K-250K members in the U.S. Members that want to be there and are active in lodge, ritually, educationally, community and socially among each other. This means a lot of lodges will close but the ones left standing will be as strong as ever with Masons that want to be there.


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## CLewey44 (Jan 14, 2019)

coachn said:


> Nope.  But it took me several years to first realize this and then several years more to finally figure out why the overwhelming hype doesn't come anywhere close to matching the reality.
> 
> The reality of Freemasonry is brilliantly masked by three centuries of obfuscation that uses a barrage of romantic notions, wishful thinking and misleading words that even its most prominent and most learned members use, unaware themselves of the game a foot.
> 
> Fortunately, the game is one of moral purpose and most members ignorantly stumble toward that end even when they make every effort to fight it.



I had 21st century Victorian in mind haha.


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## chrmc (Jan 14, 2019)

I think there are some issues with the general state of the lodges and the organization as we've discussed many, many times on this board. 

But if we look at Freemasonry as a Craft, I'd to some extent say yes. The one thing that has surprised me a lot is how little of a "curriculum" there is. Which is probably natural, considering when things were developed. But it very much is a thing where you youself has to dig, seek, focus on something make it something for yourself. If you sit back and expect to become a better man just by going to lodge, then it'll never happen.


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## Elexir (Jan 14, 2019)

Is freemasonry what I thought it would be?

Yes and maybe even more.

Im impressed by the work thats being done to try to fully understand what our ritual creators had in mind when the rituals was created and changed. The solem nature of the ritual work.

The food has at times been "meeh" but that is due to things out of our control.


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## coachn (Jan 14, 2019)

CLewey44 said:


> I had 21st century Victorian in mind haha.


LOL!


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## CLewey44 (Jan 14, 2019)

Elexir said:


> Is freemasonry what I thought it would be?
> 
> Yes and maybe even more.
> 
> ...


Glad someone is.


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## goomba (Jan 14, 2019)

No.  I joined thinking it was just a social club that my grandfathers enjoyed.  I stayed because it may be the best tool I've seen to unite men and better our minds.  Our Craft is amazing beyond words.


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## Keith C (Jan 14, 2019)

Frankly I didn't know what to expect.  I assumed it would be mostly guys my age (58) or older and that the path to leadership would be a long and slow one, built on experience.  I expected the Lodge room to be impressive as well as the rest of the facilities. I expected the meals to be on the order of "average banquet" meals.  I also expected that there would be experienced brothers to lead me though the lessons in the degrees and onward.  Finally I had the notion that how the Lodge was run was consistent over time.

I found reality to match expectations in some areas and to be far from expectations in other areas.

Things that aligned with my expectations:

The average age was what I expected, HOWEVER the range was greater than expected ( see below)

There were experienced Brothers who acted as Mentors and taught, explained, encouraged growth and guided me through my first year.

Things that were different than my expectations:

While the PLAN for the path to leadership would take some time, in reality those willing and able to advance are few and far between.  4 Months after my raising I was appointed Junior Deacon, 5 Months later I was appointed Senior Deacon, 1 year and 2 weeks after my Raising I was Elected Junior Warden.

The Lodge room was once impressive but was suffering from many years of neglect.  I learned that prior to the merging of two Lodges 2 years prior to my joining, the Lodge that owned the building was cash strapped and did not have the funds to keep up the building.  The merger brought the needed funds, but the building required a lot of work before fixing up the Lodge room made sense.  What I later found out the work on the building itself had been ongoing, all the stonework was repaired and re-pointed, the roof was replaced and the HVAC system replaced.  Last summer the Lodge room was completely re-done and now looks the way I expected it to.  This coming summer the kitchen and social hall will be refurbished and the entire place will be as I expected.

I did NOT expect that the Senior and Junior Wardens elected at the first Stated Meeting I attended would both be under 26 years old.  It was exciting to see young men stepping into leadership.

I did not expect the food to be as good as it is at such a reasonable cost.  When I was going through my Degrees we had a Brother who owned a catering business doing the food and it was "White Tablecloth Restaurant" quality for $10.00.  The following year we had a group from a PMs church do the meals and while they were not "fancy" they were awesome PA Dutch style and delicious.  From last year forward we have a Brother who is a Chef as Head Steward and we are back to the "White Tablecloth" type meals.  All in all WAY better than my expectations.

Finally the reality that the lodge experience is highly dependent on the Worshipful Master.  While the "Line" had several meetings prior to last Masonic Year,  and we all agreed on a path that we could carry through for the next several years, the WM went "off script" and frankly had us shaking our heads for much of last year.  Hopefully with our current WM and myself plus the help of several Past Masters, we can get things back on track and provide a consistently good experience going forward.

Sorry for the long winded reply!


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## David612 (Jan 14, 2019)

Nope-
I thought it would be more collaborative however it seems that to get what I want from the craft I’m required to do this alone.
Being involved with the lodge however I get to get out once every now and then and have a meal- the gents of my lodge are lovely guys and great to share a beer with however this is an added bonus but not why I came to the craft


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## Bro. David F. Hill (Jan 14, 2019)

CLewey44 said:


> I had 21st century Victorian in mind haha.


I really don't see the humor in that response. And to think that they are from a published author that seems to have such a negative believe in the things that he wrote about. 

Brother David Hill


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## Brother JC (Jan 14, 2019)

CLewey44 said:


> Glad someone is.



Notice that came from outside the states?


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## • RM (Jan 14, 2019)

JamestheJust said:


> I was at a 3rd degree practice last night.  The DC and I were the only experienced brethren there.  The new officers asked for more knowledge about Masonry - after I had pointed out several Egyptian aspects to our 3rd degree ritual.
> 
> And the DC said that he needed instruction in the hidden mysteries of nature and science.
> 
> In my experience such enthusiasm only lasts a few days.



You can only be enthusiastic if its available to you imo . I'm sure there plenty of brothers not getting enough light. And the spark goes out.


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## CLewey44 (Jan 14, 2019)

Bro. David F. Hill said:


> I really don't see the humor in that response. And to think that they are from a published author that seems to have such a negative believe in the things that he wrote about.
> 
> Brother David Hill



I'm sorry...what???


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## Bro. David F. Hill (Jan 14, 2019)

Not your response though you joked about it but the one by Coach N. 

Brother David Hill


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## Hancock (Jan 14, 2019)

No, Freemasonry, as I have experienced it in the 1 1/2 years I have been in it is not what I exexpected. My lodge is like a composite of every complaint about lodges. Boring meetings, no communication, no Masonic education, poor ritual work, VERY bad dinners (my dogs eat raw, I don't,) aprons that haven't seen bleach since it came in a glass bottle, and the list goes on.

90% of the members are "In Dues Only" members, who only stay current on their blue lodge dues because it is a requirement for the appendant bodies. I still haven't gotten my apron. I did however, recieve my dues renewal form.

This is why I no longer go to lodge meetings anymore, and may demit next year.


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## David612 (Jan 15, 2019)

Hancock said:


> No, Freemasonry, as I have experienced it in the 1 1/2 years I have been in it is not what I exexpected. My lodge is like a composite of every complaint about lodges. Boring meetings, no communication, no Masonic education, poor ritual work, VERY bad dinners (my dogs eat raw, I don't,) aprons that haven't seen bleach since it came in a glass bottle, and the list goes on.
> 
> 90% of the members are "In Dues Only" members, who only stay current on their blue lodge dues because it is a requirement for the appendant bodies. I still haven't gotten my apron. I did however, recieve my dues renewal form.
> 
> This is why I no longer go to lodge meetings anymore, and may demit next year.


I was thinking the same honestly.
That said seeing the spark inside a new EA who had been assigned to you to teach makes it hard to walk away- the light of that egar Brother makes all the indifference and general neglect seem less pressing.

Once he is raised I may look at other lodges to expand my experience.


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## CLewey44 (Jan 15, 2019)

Hancock said:


> No, Freemasonry, as I have experienced it in the 1 1/2 years I have been in it is not what I exexpected. My lodge is like a composite of every complaint about lodges. Boring meetings, no communication, no Masonic education, poor ritual work, VERY bad dinners (my dogs eat raw, I don't,) aprons that haven't seen bleach since it came in a glass bottle, and the list goes on.
> 
> 90% of the members are "In Dues Only" members, who only stay current on their blue lodge dues because it is a requirement for the appendant bodies. I still haven't gotten my apron. I did however, recieve my dues renewal form.
> 
> This is why I no longer go to lodge meetings anymore, and may demit next year.


I hate to hear that. Hopefully you can find something in other bodies or "shop" around for a lodge that may be further away but only meets once a month or even every 5th Saturday kind of thing. 

Btw, are you saying bleach used to come in a glass bottle?


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## CLewey44 (Jan 15, 2019)

Bro. David F. Hill said:


> Not your response though you joked about it but the one by Coach N.
> 
> Brother David Hill


Yes I did and that is okay good sir.


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## dfreybur (Jan 15, 2019)

CLewey44 said:


> Btw, are you saying bleach used to come in a glass bottle?



It used to come in a ceramic jug but folks confused it with moonshine. So they switched to that newfangled glass stuff.

I came to Freemasonry for the civic activities. We actually do some of those.

I stayed for the fellowship. To me a Stated meeting is a chance to spend time with my Brothers so we conduct business to make sure everyone remembers to be there on the same day. As a result I'm never bored by Stated meetings. The reason I'm there is the Brothers and that's where they are.

I also came and stay for the philosophy and history. So I make up and present Masonic education talks at most Stated meetings and offer one from my repertoire any time I go for a visit. Actually presenting talks also helps me never be bored. It's even more interesting wen someone else gives a presentation.


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## Hancock (Jan 15, 2019)

CLewey44 said:


> Btw, are you saying bleach used to come in a glass bottle?



Yes. Back in the days when we had to beat hydrogen and oxygen against a rock just to make water.


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## David612 (Jan 15, 2019)

Hancock said:


> Yes. Back in the days when we had to beat hydrogen and oxygen against a rock just to make water.


Now hipsters do it cause it’s retro.


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## JJones (Jan 15, 2019)

It definitely did not live up to my expectations.

There are several brothers working to improve the Masonic experience in their lodges and jurisdictions, however, and I applaud their efforts.


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## Elexir (Jan 16, 2019)

JamestheJust said:


> What really surprised me was that no GL had sent out search parties to find the genuine secrets.   After 300 years they were still content to sit and wait.  They had more patience than I.



How do you know?


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## LK600 (Jan 16, 2019)

• RM said:


> I'd say in some ways yes .. in other ways some improvements could be made. When speaking to a potential new candidate the question came up. Caught me a little by surprise.. thoughts ?[/Q



My answer to the original question would be both yes and no.  To start with the negative, I must say that my original thoughts on The Lodge side of Freemasonry were probably unfair by being slightly unrealistic in my expectations of Brothers within the Lodge.  I expected the Brotherhood to be without clicks and all Brother's being supportive and respectful of each other.  Well, like any organization, there is some reflection of society in general within our ranks, and people will be human.  Still, it was (and to some degree still is) a shock to observe and experience the bickering, infighting, and maneuvering.  

On the positive side of things, everything I was looking for was there.  If not openly practiced or understood, it was all contained within the material either in Lodge, or within the numerous books and papers written over the course of the last hundred and some years.  I personally love to read, and thoroughly enjoy researching.  I am looking to address those Brothers who do not enjoy those things in a manner that benefits them and helps them find whatever aspect of Masonry they are looking for. 

As I and others have said previously, the Brothers do not exist to support the Lodge, but the Lodge exists to support the Brothers.


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## Warrior1256 (Jan 16, 2019)

Nope.....it is BETTER than I thought it would be.


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## jermy Bell (Jan 17, 2019)

Not sure anymore. Learn rituals, initiation of new brothers, business meetings. (Repeat) x's.


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## coachn (Jan 17, 2019)

jermy Bell said:


> Not sure anymore. Learn rituals, initiation of new brothers, business meetings. (Repeat) x's.


You forgot fundraisers Bro.!  Don't forget the fundraisers!!!!


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## CLewey44 (Jan 17, 2019)

jermy Bell said:


> Not sure anymore. Learn rituals, initiation of new brothers, business meetings. (Repeat) x's.


Open, vote, close, repeat...i think that was a techno song 5 or 10 years ago.


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## Olmecwarrior (Jan 17, 2019)

I agree with most of what everyone is saying. It's not what I expected fully,  but does have the potential and I do recieve satisfaction of the fraction of what I am receiving through my blue lodge. I will say, if I had to rely on my lodge meetings, fish fry's, and the annual car wash we do, I would be totally dissatisfied. Instead,  I supplement my Masonic experience by researching and reading from the thousands of books and literature devoted to freemasonry..... watching Masonic talk shows like Masonic Roundtable & Prince Hall Think Tank..... listening to Masonic podcasts such as X-Oriente & Whence Came You.... and engaging in the Masonic online world through Masonic communities like this and many others. These things give me hope that it can be better. So I'd advise brothers ( myself included) to be the change in your lodge and make it what you expect it to be. It may take a while to get others on board, but the possibility of your expectations being met and reality hopefully can meet somewhere in the middle.


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## LK600 (Jan 18, 2019)

Olmecwarrior said:


> ...Instead, I supplement my Masonic experience by researching and reading from the thousands of books and literature devoted to freemasonry..... watching Masonic talk shows like Masonic Roundtable & Prince Hall Think Tank..... listening to Masonic podcasts such as X-Oriente & Whence Came You.... and engaging in the Masonic online world through Masonic communities like this and many others.



Very much the same here.  I must say... I've learned more from my ever growing library than I have from being present in Lodge (and I enjoy my lodge).


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## Warrior1256 (Jan 18, 2019)

LK600 said:


> I've learned more from my ever growing library than I have from being present in Lodge (and I enjoy my lodge).


I've learned a lot more on this forum than I have in lodge!


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## CLewey44 (Jan 18, 2019)

Warrior1256 said:


> I've learned a lot more on this forum than I have in lodge!


If I were to include this site, it's definitely raised my overall experience.


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## • RM (Jan 18, 2019)

CLewey44 said:


> If I were to include this site, it's definitely raised my overall experience.


Likewise


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## Bloke (Jan 18, 2019)

CLewey44 said:


> If I were to include this site, it's definitely raised my overall experience.


I agree. 

I would also point out; who took responsibility for taking the initiative and then signing up here, and then kept coming back to either directly participate by posting or indirectly by reading, or just using the "like" button. In doing that, we all took some sort of active independent step in our Masonic Experience. . So many of us are told, you get our of Freemasonry what you put into Freemasonry, and again, so many are shocked when they do not take ownership of their own Masonic growth and make not effort, but leave it to others to spoon feed them, and they get disappointed with Freemasonry.. 

There is the lovely question to explore -  "Is Freemasonry a Team Sport of an Individual Pursuit ? " 
We know it is both because we cannot perpetuate Freemasons nor make Freemasons unless we are in a Lodge (a team sport) but also  the hardest challenges are not learning likes or understanding arcane ideas or words, it is applying and living the values of Freemasonry in our daily lives as individuals. Further, coming to quickly understand that Freemasonry is not a 3 meeting mystical self help system, it is indeed a life journey. S_ymbolic/Speculative_ Freemasonry is indeed is a  system of morality, veiled in allegory and illustrated by symbols.. I have not yet mastered that and expect to keep discovering "hidden mysteries" until the day I die. However, like a football team, when comprised of individual highly fit athletes who seek out teams coached by excellent leadership, the team result will be better. Sadly, so many Brothers all over report they find their team leadership lacking. More sadly, so many men discard Freemasonry because it has not come up to their expectations in the first year or two.. or their love of a dedicated water boy or two,  keeps them going back to the stadium. 

But I am not an idiot, Lodges can be very hard places to be sometimes and at some point in everyone's journey, and often more frequently, require resolve... as does living an honourable and worthwhile life


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## Warrior1256 (Jan 19, 2019)

Bloke said:


> Lodges can be very hard places to be sometimes and at some point in everyone's journey, and often more frequently, require resolve... as does living an honourable and worthwhile life


Well said Brother Bloke.


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## Bloke (Jan 19, 2019)

Warrior1256 said:


> Well said Brother Bloke.


Thank you Brother.


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## frehm (Feb 2, 2019)

It's even bigger and deeper than I thought.


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## Warrior1256 (Feb 2, 2019)

frehm said:


> It's even bigger and deeper than I thought.


I feel the same!


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## Elexir (Feb 2, 2019)

frehm said:


> It's even bigger and deeper than I thought.



You havent seen nothing yet


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