# Criminal Background Check Resources



## nfasson

The Lodge that I'm petitioning to has requested that I run my own criminal background check as part of the application process, but I'm not sure where to start.

They suggested the State Police, but I was handed an application that requires a notary public to sign and weeks to process.

Any ideas as to the best avenue to get one done that's both legit in the eyes of the Lodge and doesn't take long? Thanks for any info.


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## Mike Martin

You should speak to a Law Enforcement professional where you live.


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## admarcus1

Try asking the Grand Lodge to find out is they have any preferred providers. There are any number if companies that will do it for you. The Grand Lodge if MA has a link to one on their website. The federal check is almost instant. Local depends on where you are.


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## BroBook

Is this a new lodge or did they just implement the rule? they should already know who you need to see .


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## admarcus1

Criminal background checks don't have to go through a LEO or find someone with connection.  Anytime you apply for a job, they do a background check.  You can be sure that the police wouldn't want to deal with all those requests.  Private companies do it for you. 

GL of MA uses Infocheckusa. The link is below.  They send the report directly to you (not the lodge or GL), so there is no reason you can't use it out of MA, I imagine.


http://www.infocheckusa.com/masons-ordering-mass.html


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## nfasson

admarcus1 said:


> Criminal background checks don't have to go through a LEO or find someone with connection.  Anytime you apply for a job, they do a background check.  You can be sure that the police wouldn't want to deal with all those requests.  Private companies do it for you.
> 
> GL of MA uses Infocheckusa. The link is below.  They send the report directly to you (not the lodge or GL), so there is no reason you can't use it out of MA, I imagine.
> 
> 
> http://www.infocheckusa.com/masons-ordering-mass.html




Great. That helps immensely. Thanks!


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## MaineMason

My Blue Lodge has a PM who is a former police chief, and our Secretary is the former Fire Chief. As far as I know, online background checks are not done in my lodge. They much prefer to interview candidates and their friends and family.


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## MaineMason

Another thought: I am a line officer. In a handful of years, God Willing, I'll be Master of my lodge. Unless my sense leaves me, I would not troll around the internet while looking at a candidate. There was no internet when my second great grandfather was made a Mason in England, or when my great grandfather was made one in Massachusetts, or when my grandfather was made one in New Jersey, or even when my father was made one in Massachusetts. The men who vouched for me went to church with me. I was honest on my application. That should be enough. Digging around, in my opinion, is un-Masonic and when the day comes, I won't run my lodge like that.


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## MaineMason

And yet another thought: The Massachusetts Consistory (of which I am a member) and its bodies did not go searching for me when they accepted me.


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## Brother JC

It may not be your choice... NM requires a background check and the petitioner knowingly pays the fees. I've personally discovered reasons to object (as part of an Investigation Committee) to a petitioner, just from looking at local court records.


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## MaineMason

trysquare said:


> It may not be your choice... NM requires a background check and the petitioner knowingly pays the fees. I've personally discovered reasons to object (as part of an Investigation Committee) to a petitioner, just from looking at local court records.


As far as I know the Grand Lodge of Maine does not require a background check. I might know, because I have served in an IC here. For many years, before I became a Mason, I was a liturgical musician and was subjected to background checks. All of which I passed. That being said, I have an issue with the idea of going too far into the history of a candidate as men can be measured better by interview than by "objective" information one might find on line.


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## dfreybur

Multiple GLs are in the process of requiring criminal background checks conducted by the GL office so they are standard state wide.  Getting it in place is a bumpy process because there are so many legal details.  When I lived in Illinois I voted on more than one GLofIL proposal about it.  This year in December GLofTX will vote on one.

I favor a standardized process but I think expecting a candidate to do one one himself is fraught with potential problems and is not a good idea.  But your jurisdiction your rules.


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## MaineMason

If a man has a past which includes less than honorable behavior, it suggests to me that it would come to light in conversation. I know many of you don't agree with me on this, but how can one build trust when a candidate's background is so heavily researched? What ever happened to "properly avouched for"?


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## admarcus1

MaineMason said:


> If a man has a past which includes less than honorable behavior, it suggests to me that it would come to light in conversation. I know many of you don't agree with me on this, but how can one build trust when a candidate's background is so heavily researched? What ever happened to "properly avouched for"?


The background check in MA in no way replaces an investigation, and no one pokes around on the internet. The petitioner is required to order the background check to be delivered to himself, not the lodge or the GL. They must be willing to show it to the investigation committee, but it is never given to them or recorded anywhere. What this does is weed out anyone who would seek to hide a criminal past.  The responsibilities of the IC members are the same as before the background check was implemented.   It's a painless extra check to discourage those who may misrepresent themselves.  It's not "heavily researched'. As I said earlier, the federal check is close to instantaneous, and local takes a little longer (though not by much). If you have ever applied for a job or for a volunteer position dealing with children, you have almost certainly had a background check on you done. Whether you know it or not, you almost certainly authorized such a check on your  application. Should we do no less?

For a job, you probably authorized a credit check as well.


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## Brother JC

Several decades ago you would have called a petitioners references, gone to his home, spoken to his friends and co-workers. That's police investigation level snooping.
I have done a simple search on a single website and discovered patterns of dangerous recklessness, spousal abuse, and criminal indebtedness, none of which came to light during conversations with the various petitioners, or the paid "background check." We can agree to disagree, Brother Maine, but trusting any of those men with the Tools of the Craft would have been a grave mistake.


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## Warrior1256

A criminal background check is not required in Kentucky but if this were proposed I would be in favor of it.


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## nfasson

I agree. I have no problem with the check bc I'm clean, but I just find it odd that I'm running it on myself. If I was dishonest, I could just run one locally and not include national or use some cruddy online site.

I would think it would be a lot better for the Investigation Committee to perform the check and just charge me for the processing. That would ensure it's legit and thorough enough to their satisfaction. I don't want any doubts when it comes time to vote!


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## admarcus1

nfasson said:


> I agree. I have no problem with the check bc I'm clean, but I just find it odd that I'm running it on myself. If I was dishonest, I could just run one locally and not include national or use some cruddy online site.


In Massachusetts, there is a particular site you have to use for the background check, so you can't find a cruddy online site that will do whatever you want.  The company has been vetted.  Also, you go through a particular link.  You couldn't run one locally and not include national because a report from both are required.

See the first page of the background check report I received from InfoCheck USA.  You can see that it is immediately apparent that I did both the national and country.

As for running it yourself, it's a privacy issue.  In MA, not only do you run it yourself, but at no time does the lodge take possession of it.  You are required to show it to them, not give it to them, and they don't want it.  No information from your background check is retained in the records of the Lodge or Grand Lodge.


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## admarcus1

nfasson said:


> Great. That helps immensely. Thanks!


You should check with the GL in the jurisdiction where you are petitioning.  If the local lodge is asking, the Grand Lodge can probably give you the info (though the local lodge secretary should be able to give you the info).  I wouldn't want you to spend money on a report from the link I posted if your GL has its own requirement.


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## MaineMason

trysquare said:


> Several decades ago you would have called a petitioners references, gone to his home, spoken to his friends and co-workers. That's police investigation level snooping.
> I have done a simple search on a single website and discovered patterns of dangerous recklessness, spousal abuse, and criminal indebtedness, none of which came to light during conversations with the various petitioners, or the paid "background check." We can agree to disagree, Brother Maine, but trusting any of those men with the Tools of the Craft would have been a grave mistake.


"Criminal indebtedness"? My goodness, we have no debtor's prisons in Maine. I am not against rigorous research, however, I guess I just take a more old fashioned view in the way to do it. "Criminal indebtedness", by the way, is the subject of a book all Masons should read: "Slavery By Another Name :The Re-Enslavement of Black Americans from the Civil War to World War II" by Douglas A. Blackmon.  

"Criminal indebtedness"? Really? My goodness. Two-thirds of the Masons on Wall Street and in Washington should be expelled for that!

Perhaps that's a little hyperbole, but I know plenty of Masons, and good ones, who had some scrapes with the law in their background, most of them for being "outside agitators" in the South some decades ago and some decades even more near to our own.


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## Morris

MaineMason said:


> "Criminal indebtedness"? My goodness, we have no debtor's prisons in Maine. I am not against rigorous research, however, I guess I just take a more old fashioned view in the way to do it. "Criminal indebtedness", by the way, is the subject of a book all Masons should read: "Slavery By Another Name :The Re-Enslavement of Black Americans from the Civil War to World War II" by Douglas A. Blackmon.
> 
> "Criminal indebtedness"? Really? My goodness. Two-thirds of the Masons on Wall Street and in Washington should be expelled for that!
> 
> Perhaps that's a little hyperbole, but I know plenty of Masons, and good ones, who had some scrapes with the law in their background, most of them for being "outside agitators" in the South some decades ago and some decades even more near to our own.



If criminal indebtedness bothers you then substitute it with another criminal offense and read it again. Point would be the same. 

Either way, it's just differing points of view. We always have three trustworthy men assigned as investigation team and I trust they will fully vet each candidate to determine whether they are good people.


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## MaineMason

Indeed that's true. Fifth generation here.


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## MaineMason

Morris said:


> If criminal indebtedness bothers you then substitute it with another criminal offense and read it again. Point would be the same.
> 
> Either way, it's just differing points of view. We always have three trustworthy men assigned as investigation team and I trust they will fully vet each candidate to determine whether they are good people.


We vet them, too. I wonder, however, what "good" means sometimes. Sometimes I wonder that has implications that have nothing to do with their suitability  for Freemasonry and more with personal prejudices and I'm not talking about race here. I will say, however, were I serving on that investigative committee, I would never have approved J. Edgar Hoover, master investigator and life-long blackmailer. Is that a Mason we should be proud of?


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## Morris

MaineMason said:


> We vet them, too. I wonder, however, what "good" means sometimes. Sometimes I wonder that has implications that have nothing to do with their suitability  for Freemasonry and more with personal prejudices and I'm not talking about race here. I will say, however, were I serving on that investigative committee, I would never have approved J. Edgar Hoover, master investigator and life-long blackmailer. Is that a Mason we should be proud of?



That's why we trust. I would put my trust in you in an investigation to determine what good means. However someone vets a person as long as they can be confident in their assessment I will be happy. 

As far as Hoover is concerned, I'm sure there are lists of Masons that individuals are proud and not proud to call brother.


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## Bill Lins

Morris said:


> If criminal indebtedness bothers you then substitute it with another criminal offense and read it again. Point would be the same.


Hot check writing, i.e. theft by check, could be considered "criminal indebtedness". I would not want to initiate a man as a Mason who was known to write hot checks. We must guard our reputation closely.

One thing I take into consideration when investigating a petitioner is, that if we were to induct him and he were to later visit another Lodge where I was known and had close friends, how would he reflect upon my and my Lodge's reputation.


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## Warrior1256

Bill_Lins77488 said:


> Hot check writing, i.e. theft by check, could be considered "criminal indebtedness". I would not want to initiate a man as a Mason who was known to write hot checks. We must guard our reputation closely.
> 
> One thing I take into consideration when investigating a petitioner is, that if we were to induct him and he were to later visit another Lodge where I was known and had close friends, how would he reflect upon my and my Lodge's reputation.


Sounds good to me.


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## Rick Carver

Kansas has used infocheckusa.com for several years


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## nfasson

admarcus1 said:


> Criminal background checks don't have to go through a LEO or find someone with connection.  Anytime you apply for a job, they do a background check.  You can be sure that the police wouldn't want to deal with all those requests.  Private companies do it for you.
> 
> GL of MA uses Infocheckusa. The link is below.  They send the report directly to you (not the lodge or GL), so there is no reason you can't use it out of MA, I imagine.
> 
> 
> http://www.infocheckusa.com/masons-ordering-mass.html



Now, the question is... if I use the MA check site will it only look at MA-related offenses or is it national?


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## Bird_n_hand

MaineMason said:


> "Criminal indebtedness"? My goodness, we have no debtor's prisons in Maine. I am not against rigorous research, however, I guess I just take a more old fashioned view in the way to do it. "Criminal indebtedness", by the way, is the subject of a book all Masons should read: "Slavery By Another Name :The Re-Enslavement of Black Americans from the Civil War to World War II" by Douglas A. Blackmon.
> 
> "Criminal indebtedness"? Really? My goodness. Two-thirds of the Masons on Wall Street and in Washington should be expelled for that!
> 
> Perhaps that's a little hyperbole, but I know plenty of Masons, and good ones, who had some scrapes with the law in their background, most of them for being "outside agitators" in the South some decades ago and some decades even more near to our own.


I guess Henry David Thoreau would've been a tax cheat and a bad bad bad man for failing to pay taxes XD it's interesting the background check goes only 7 years back, and the current county you live in,  not very Thoreau if you ask me lol.  In Washington background checks can only go back 7 years as well. And for renting a home they can't even run a background anymore. It's been proven to not be effective in determining who a person really is it just hurts good people who have moved forward in life. People grow up yah know remember that. It's not a good thing being a paranoid soccer mom type vetting everyone down to the gardener girlfriends sisters boyfriend. While letting politicians and whoever else with a little bit of clout slide through like a fat man at a hot dog stand. Just saying. Character is what is important and when I did interviews as a highering manager I only asked people to bring copies of their resume so I had scratch paper to write on. Maybe that's why this lodge wants them to bring a background check in. So they can have something to write their thoughts on XD


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## Bird_n_hand

MaineMason said:


> We vet them, too. I wonder, however, what "good" means sometimes. Sometimes I wonder that has implications that have nothing to do with their suitability  for Freemasonry and more with personal prejudices and I'm not talking about race here. I will say, however, were I serving on that investigative committee, I would never have approved J. Edgar Hoover, master investigator and life-long blackmailer. Is that a Mason we should be proud of?


The modern prison industrial complex is out of control now. I'll say this for the first and last time on this site. IT'S NO LONGER ABOUT IF YOU'VE COMMITED A CRIME WORTH JAIL OR PRISON TIME. IT'S EITHER YOU HAVNT GOT CAUGHT BECAUSE YOUR LUCKY. OR YOU HAVE A GOOD LAWYER AND MONEY TO SPEND ON THEM, Laws are not meant to Protect us but to enslave us. And police are not meant to uphold peace, but to uphold laws and the interpretation of them from judges. 50 or 60 years ago crime and punishment was just a book. Laws have evolved so much now that things that were not crimes 50 years ago are crimes worth prison time now. 100 years ago people wouldn't even be talking about this. Society needs a positive change and we need good men like yourself to step up and help make that happen. Not just following the big groups of scared people running around


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## Keith C

Well, this thread took quite a turn.

In our case the GL does a background check and informs the lodge if anything shows up, it is then up to the lodge to determine the candidates suitability.  As far as looking into a candidates character, standing in society and fitness to be made a mason, you can rest assured that once a name is read in lodge and a committee formed Brothers will be googleing his name, checking his social media posts, etc.  We have had several candidates where the committee visited the candidate and coming away with a positive impression and then have the candidates FB page pointed out to them and re-interviewing and subsequently find not in favor of granting their prayer of petition.  Some folks can put on a good show for an hour, but their true character be revealed by how they act on-line.

I think we have to closely guard the Western gate as I would not want to see our lodge mentioned or associated with some of the stuff people post online.


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## Warrior1256

Keith C said:


> checking his social media posts





Keith C said:


> Some folks can put on a good show for an hour, but their true character be revealed by how they act on-line.


I've tried to warn some young folks that the stuff that they post on line can come back to bite them when it comes to getting a job, etc.  "Say it, forget it. Write it, regret it".


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## Howard Giang

Warrior1256 said:


> I've tried to warn some young folks that the stuff that they post on line can come back to bite them when it comes to getting a job, etc.  "Say it, forget it. Write it, regret it".


Great advice Warrior1256! 
My Dad once said/advised that between two choices: it is better to drink poison than to talk poison. Explain: when a person drinks poison, people are willing to help to save his/her life, but when a person talks poison, there are people willing to do harm to him/her.

I always give a benefit  of doubt that men & women in general are good by default and never jump to a conclusion even though I understood what it meant, but I still want to ask to explain what it is meant by that. I hope everyone on here will do the same for me. Thanks.


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## Andy Fracica

Late this year we started requiring criminal background checks that the candidate pays for. The background report is shared with the investigation committee but we don't make copies of it or keep it, it is returned to the candidate after we have met with him.


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## dpk Shah

Keith C said:


> Well, this thread took quite a turn.
> 
> In our case the GL does a background check and informs the lodge if anything shows up, it is then up to the lodge to determine the candidates suitability.  As far as looking into a candidates character, standing in society and fitness to be made a mason, you can rest assured that once a name is read in lodge and a committee formed Brothers will be googleing his name, checking his social media posts, etc.  We have had several candidates where the committee visited the candidate and coming away with a positive impression and then have the candidates FB page pointed out to them and re-interviewing and subsequently find not in favor of granting their prayer of petition.  Some folks can put on a good show for an hour, but their true character be revealed by how they act on-line.
> 
> I think we have to closely guard the Western gate as I would not want to see our lodge mentioned or associated with some of the stuff people post online.



Brother, in my case, police clearance was part of the application form. A 3 Brother committee came to my house to have a ‘chat’ with me, spoke with the wife.


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## Athena

I firmly agree with the criminal background check. From an outsiders perspective if someone has made a criminal offense a few months ago that could be detrimental to the cause. However I feel the way to go about it is conduct an interview first ask him questions about his criminal history and see if he admits to it. Then request consent to submit a background check after the interview. If the background check shows that he has lied, hid, or told half truths about any felonies then that's a sign of dishonesty. My criminal record is adjudicated so I have the potential to say no and it wouldn't show up. However by word of mouth it could present itself. I have a felony for arson age 14. Then around 2 misdemeanors. One for I think disorderly conduct and attempting to evade arrest/resisting arrest whatever it's called I ran away because I was scared there were 2 big undercover cops that I thought were normal people angry at what I was doing. Second one was basic assault and battery. Somewhere around 15-16 were the misdemeanors. My point is yes I agree that personally talking and knowing a person is better then reading a piece of paper. However if both are done and the felony is very very recent it might be wise to blackball I guess or disqualify. I am 25 now and I am a changed now and I feel that I am a way better person than I used to be. However I know that I do not meet other qualifications and I may petition many years from now. It's an honor to be able to communicate with masons the very few that I met irl along with one open lodge visit at 18 was very pleasurable and I have not met one mason that I know of for sure that is unpleasant. Including the ones online in which I know way more then I have met in the past offline. One way I feel I can distinguish is if someone truely is a mason if they say they are is there character, the way they act, what they do. I firmly believe that freemasonry is good for society even though I've never first hand experienced it but I am sure that it is good. Whatever this light is that I keep hearing about, it seems noble and good.


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## CLewey44

I think background checks are ok however I think we are putting too much emphasize on that as if it's going to be a save-all. We call it 'guarding the west' but that's not what the main problem, criminal backgrounds. It's more about letting idiots into the fraternity that have no business being in their anyways.


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## LK600

Where I am they do a criminal background check, check social media, call three references, and a 3 person committee visits their home.  The candidate is also requested to come to lodge several times before any vote.  Not sure if if any of that would help stop idiots from getting in.


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## CLewey44

Lol it may help. Definitely meeting with them, getting a feel for them. See what they plan on contributing to Masonry. I think some lodges require a contribution of something of Masonic value. Meeting with them a couple of times, require they come to three pre-meeting dinners maybe. Meet them at their home helps paint a picture.


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## Warrior1256

CLewey44 said:


> I think background checks are ok however I think we are putting too much emphasize on that as if it's going to be a save-all. We call it 'guarding the west' but that's not what the main problem, criminal backgrounds. It's more about letting idiots into the fraternity that have no business being in their anyways.


Agreed!


CLewey44 said:


> Meeting with them a couple of times, require they come to three pre-meeting dinners maybe. Meet them at their home helps paint a picture.


This is the way it was with me.


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## Howard Giang

I also think it is important to know if a prospective brother wan2be is honest and truthful. Great idea to at least meet and interact at home or at Lodge. I came to this Forums for the same reason to getting to know the culture and determine whether I can fit in. Meet in person definitely will be different. Regardless, Whatever I typed on this Forums were honest and truthful. I think Clint misunderstood one of my responses.  For example, I have never been in side the United Grand Lodge or Local Lodge, but I had been inside a Masonic Temple in Sacramento many times. It sounds fiction or bull but not. In fact, certain like a ballroom on a 4 th floor of the Temple was rented/used for meeting and wedding events. I know the less I write reader can be misunderstanding, but the more I write it also can cause a misunderstanding, so I am going to keep it to a minimum.


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## Howard Giang

CLewey44 said:


> See what they plan on contributing to Masonry.


Definitely, in addition, I now think it is important to have more members that following Masonry especially with a diverse of backgrounds. Furthermore, a faithful and loyal Mason will more likely to have a positive view in line with the majority views among his Brothers. Personally, I would not play hard to get in this scenario. It is not to be funny, but I just like to end with an emoji.


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## Andy Fracica

The Indiana Grand Lodge mandated a criminal background check for all candidates. So here it is the law of the land.


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## Bloke

LK600 said:


> Where I am they do a criminal background check, check social media, call three references, and a 3 person committee visits their home.  The candidate is also requested to come to lodge several times before any vote.  Not sure if if any of that would help stop idiots from getting in.


It does help for out the cut of a fellows jib. One guy sank himself when we went to the pub and was really rude to a waitress- I guess he felt she was beneath him or he was showing off or something. We were not going to have that sort of bloke around... Freemasonry calls you to be the best person you can, if you're thinking of applying, try just doing that for a while before you try to join...

Sent from my SM-G920I using My Freemasonry mobile app


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## CLewey44

Bloke said:


> It does help for out the cut of a fellows jib. One guy sank himself when we went to the pub and was really rude to a waitress- I guess he felt she was beneath him or he was showing off or something. We were not going to have that sort of bloke around... Freemasonry calls you to be the best person you can, if you're thinking of applying, try just doing that for a while before you try to join...
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920I using My Freemasonry mobile app



Now see, this is guarding the West. Love it...


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## Warrior1256

Bloke said:


> One guy sank himself when we went to the pub and was really rude to a waitress- I guess he felt she was beneath him or he was showing off or something. We were not going to have that sort of bloke around


Great!


CLewey44 said:


> Now see, this is guarding the West. Love it...


Good example.


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## hanzosbm

I am personally in favor of having as much information as is reasonably possible before making a decision.

Regarding a candidate, I make it known to every man who petitions that my vote is my own and I don't rely on the investigation committee.  Furthermore, my default vote is 'no'.  Therefore, I will readily make myself available for he and I to get together so that I can get to know him prior to my vote. 

Short version: we need to meet prior to the vote and you need to convince me that you're worthy or I'm going to vote you down.


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## Warrior1256

hanzosbm said:


> Short version: we need to meet prior to the vote and you need to convince me that you're worthy or I'm going to vote you down.


Nothing wrong with that. Good deal Brother.


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## Mark Petro

CLewey44 said:


> Lol it may help. Definitely meeting with them, getting a feel for them. See what they plan on contributing to Masonry. I think some lodges require a contribution of something of Masonic value. Meeting with them a couple of times, require they come to three pre-meeting dinners maybe. Meet them at their home helps paint a picture.



I plan on going to several dinners-before-meetings and attending several open functions with the lodge before I plan on even petitioning. I want to build friendships with the other members, regardless if I petition or not. My wife and I are both attending the open house at the lodge this Saturday.


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## Warrior1256

Mark Petro said:


> I plan on going to several dinners-before-meetings and attending several open functions with the lodge before I plan on even petitioning. I want to build friendships with the other members, regardless if I petition or not. My wife and I are both attending the open house at the lodge this Saturday.


This is a good plan....you are starting off well.


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## Rifleman1776

nfasson said:


> The Lodge that I'm petitioning to has requested that I run my own criminal background check as part of the application process, but I'm not sure where to start.
> 
> They suggested the State Police, but I was handed an application that requires a notary public to sign and weeks to process.
> 
> Any ideas as to the best avenue to get one done that's both legit in the eyes of the Lodge and doesn't take long? Thanks for any info.



Puzzling requirement. If you committed crimes you were there and know about them. Whatever you do, do not lie on your petition. Even with a record, the man you are now is what is important. But not being truthful on the petition would be bad news. One of the finest MMs I know had a troubled time as a teen youth. Today he is a respected person in the community and Lodge.


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## plg2017

Rifleman1776 said:


> Puzzling requirement. If you committed crimes you were there and know about them. Whatever you do, do not lie on your petition. Even with a record, the man you are now is what is important. But not being truthful on the petition would be bad news. One of the finest MMs I know had a troubled time as a teen youth. Today he is a respected person in the community and Lodge.


Even if you have a background regardless of what it is, as long as you tell the truth and be honest. Then that would help when petitioning? Would it save more time to contact that lodge Secretary to avoid time wasted?


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