# how when and where



## Marc lester

Hi! Freemason is very popular in the philippines I'm very interested of joining the Freemason but I'm currently residing here in Japan and very far from Tokyo is there any way I could join or can you refer me ?i live in Niigata  300km away from Tokyo and oh yeah I heard that philippine lodge supports the Tokyo grand lodge and I'm Filipino resident here in Japan ... My reason for joining first was I find masonry cool and as I research more and more that I wanna learn  more and grow helping others searching the light  hope I could get a reply thanks in advance oh! makes me more interested is our national hero in the Philippines Jose Rizal is a Freemason too


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## robert leachman

Welcome !
Did you check the internet for the Grand Lodge of Japan to see if there is a lodge near where you live?


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## Marc lester

I did try to check their site but the site gives a little information about them


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## Marc lester

Found the list of lodges here in Japan nothing closer than 300 km distance will try to find a way to get closer with the lodges listed


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## Txmason

Come to Texas and we will get you done up right!

Sent from my iPhone using Freemasonry


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## Blake Bowden

LIST of GRAND LODGES RECOGNIZED by the UNITED GRAND LODGE of ENGLAND; plus Overseas English Districts, Inspectorates and unattached Lodges


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## polmjonz

Marc, Kumusta ka? Ako asawa cebuana.  will you be in Japan for a long time.  If not it may benefit you to wait until you return to the Philippines.  Waiting sucks, I know, I had to wait about 4 years until I was in a place to petition a regular lodge.  As said above make sure to verify any potential lodges on the UGLE website to ensure no future problems.


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## Dr.martin

Add Content


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## Dr.martin

*dr.martin*

I have been interests in being a mason for years even when I was a  lil boy I like the loyalty an the brother hood thay share if someone is will to take me under that wing an really take me in I will be more then thankful


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## promason

Masonic lodges in subsaharan Africa will definitely help populations in their quest for progress


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## polmjonz

Doc Martin,  I am slightly confused by your post by what do you mean " to take me under that wing an really take me in."  No disrespect meant to you sir but in your profile it says that you are MM. This may very well be an inadvertent error or misunderstanding on my part.


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## Marc lester

Uy sir thanks sa reply pag na punta ka dito sa Japan contact me interested ako Talaga thanks in advance sir sorry kala ko wala na mag reply sa post ko late na tuloy ako naka reply


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## BryanMaloney

Marc, are you Pinoy? (I'm related to the Suacos, who used to own Suaco Pharmaceuticals, a very long time ago. My great-grandfather was Antonio Suaco, who studied at Purdue University in the USA and then went back to the Philippines.)


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## Marc lester

Yes I'm a pinoy living here in Japan sir  I'm sure I heard that family name somewhere when I was in the Phil just can't remember , if you grandfather was a pharmaceutical company owner then you must be from a higher class of society sir and your grandfather has powerful influential man in Philippines  okay now I remember it's Wyeth suaco laboratories now you must be a millionaire sir heheh!


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## Marc lester

P


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## BryanMaloney

Marc lester said:


> Yes I'm a pinoy living here in Japan sir  I'm sure I heard that family name somewhere when I was in the Phil just can't remember , if you grandfather was a pharmaceutical company owner then you must be from a higher class of society sir and your grandfather has powerful influential man in Philippines  okay now I remember it's Wyeth suaco laboratories now you must be a millionaire sir heheh!


 
Alas, no. Although Grandpa Tony was the senior son, he married without family approval while he was at Purdue. Eventually, he divorced my great-grandmother and returned to the Philippines. His children from a subsequent marriage inherited the Suaco properties.


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## jvarnell

Marc lester said:


> Yes I'm a pinoy living here in Japan sir  I'm sure I heard that family name somewhere when I was in the Phil just can't remember , if you grandfather was a pharmaceutical company owner then you must be from a higher class of society sir and your grandfather has powerful influential man in Philippines  okay now I remember it's Wyeth suaco laboratories now you must be a millionaire sir heheh!



I was just having fun reading this thread until I saw this post.  In Masonary there is no classes of society.


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## SeeKer.mm

jvarnell said:


> I was just having fun reading this thread until I saw this post.  In Masonary there is no classes of society.



In Masonry, you are right, no there aren't.  But our friend here is not a Mason and societal classes are in fact a part of the profane world.  While we all have a lot to learn, we as Masons, also have a lot to teach.  Even if a man never actually takes the step to become a Mason, there is still much he can learn from our great fraternity, even if it is just by example alone and nothing else. This is where it SHOULD be fun, not only in our self improvement, but in the opportunity to help improve others as well.  Just my two cents, whatever its worth


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## polmjonz

Marc, Hopefully you have found something on a more local lodge to you the search results for the grand lodge of japan are disappointing as it appears they may be rebuilding their website.  I don't think i have any contacts left in japan who are masons to help out with finding a lodge.  Here is what i found on the nippon lodge #9 website from Sasebo Japan.  Yu can see if any of these are close to you.  Wish you the best of luck.

The Most Worshipful Grand Lodge of Japan: http://www.japan-freemasons.org
Far East Lodge #1, Yokohama: http://www2.gol.com/users/lodge/index.html
Square & Compass Lodge #3, Kunitachi: http://square-compass3.org/moodle/
Kokusai Lodge #15, Tokyo: http://www.kokusailodge.yolasite.com/
Kintai Lodge #16, Iwakuni: http://iwakunimastermason.com/home
Yokosuka Lodge #20, Yokosuka: http://www.yokosukalodge20.com


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## BryanMaloney

I see a severe shortage of Japanese (Yamato) Masons in the lodge pages that were still up. Is this typical of Freemasonry in Japan--that it's pretty much for foreigners?


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## Frater Cliff Porter

> In Masonry, you are right, no there aren't.


 Statement made in reference to "classes."

There are also classes in Masonry.  We must not just look at wording, but at practice and there most certainly are.

This is okay.  Submission is a part of enlightenment and in allowing submission does not mean we allow weakness.  But there are certainly classes.  Texas officer installation ritual even references that it falls to certain individuals to lead.

Fear of division is is common, but it shows a fracture in the psyche.  This stems from the same psychosis that creates complexes with authority that are detrimental.  

When we can learn to know ourselves, feel good about who we are, we don't need to run around screaming about false equalities...it becomes unnecessary.


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## jvarnell

Frater Cliff Porter said:


> Statement made in reference to "classes."
> 
> There are also classes in Masonry. We must not just look at wording, but at practice and there most certainly are.
> 
> This is okay. Submission is a part of enlightenment and in allowing submission does not mean we allow weakness. But there are certainly classes. Texas officer installation ritual even references that it falls to certain individuals to lead.
> 
> Fear of division is is common, but it shows a fracture in the psyche. This stems from the same psychosis that creates complexes with authority that are detrimental.
> 
> When we can learn to know ourselves, feel good about who we are, we don't need to run around screaming about false equalities...it becomes unnecessary.



Oh man,  This is mixing leadership roles and classes.   The Freemasons are a group of people that have three leavels of knowledge not classes.  When you vote on a new person the people that vote are at a leavel that has the most knowledge (MM) and not EA or FC but this is all classless.  The officers are not of a higher class but the same class.  When you have a cass type system there are classes and classes don't mix, mary or anything else.  Masionary has rolls that anyone with the knowledge can fill.  This is apart of freedom.

And somethings are more equal than other thing


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## Frater Cliff Porter

Leadership and class are often the same thing...ergo the ruling class.

Active Mason versus lazy Mason is an informal class.

We honor good ritualist, active members.  We give pagentry to Grand Lodge officers.  We most definitely celebrate class division.  

It is not necessarily bad.  But with all things, there are positive energies that can be derived from it as well.


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## jvarnell

Frater Cliff Porter said:


> Leadership and class are often the same thing...ergo the ruling class.
> 
> Active Mason versus lazy Mason is an informal class.
> 
> We honor good ritualist, active members.  We give pagentry to Grand Lodge officers.  We most definitely celebrate class division.
> 
> It is not necessarily bad.  But with all things, there are positive energies that can be derived from it as well.



I know you are up in the Masonery ranks.  But in many counteries the ruling classes are dictators which force people to do thing and force is not leadership.....ergo no class.  Being free we can do as much as we wont or need to do or push the limits and lead.  And in the world outside of the US it maybe jumping classes.  As Masons we are of the same class but not equel in our ablitys, desires or skills....some lead and some don't it is up to us as free men.  We celebrate good leaders and how they serve their followers.  That is why we call is serving as ????? of the Grand lodge of ???????

Marxism talks of classes and how to divide and conquer them so they are subservient to the rulers.  You see I did not say Leaders.


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## Frater Cliff Porter

> I know you are up in the Masonery ranks.



Thank you for the vote of confidence, but I am not up in the Masonry ranks Brother.  

I think you are arguing semantics at this point.  Before we had klassenbewusst to describe our situation in the Marxist form that you are using, we had natural tendencies to divide and even to self segregate in some regards.  Girls will hangout with girls until age such and such.  We watch class form as one group of kids is always allowed to play sports, one group or kid is always at the top of the jungle gym, etc.  It is part of natural societal configuration.  I am not pretending its all positive.  But I won't pretend after observing Masonry that it doesn't exist either so that I feel good about it.  

A bigger question is do we truly believe a dues card or patent makes men who call themselves Masons equal?  I don't.  I happen to think that Mason is a title earned through a life lived daily like a Mason.


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## jvarnell

Cliff,  You need to google your self and see what you find.  There is a lotmore about you out there than little old me.  I am just an EA about to take my profishency test tonight but I do know a few things about Masons you don't seam to remember from that and about life.  I was the kid on the bench that is very comfortable with that.  I am not a past Grand lecturer,  but I know I am the same as you but I use the brain I was given to server so I can lead and not classify so I can say I am a leader. I beleive a Mason earns his title in life by serving to be a leader.  I don't care about titles I just care about my brothers.  I don't know what you are saying with your german I see no class consciousness in what I said.


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## BryanMaloney

Frater Cliff Porter said:


> Leadership and class are often the same thing



Class is a specific sociological concept in the context of this conversation. A "ruling class" is a class in that it is a mostly hereditary group united by specifics of status, power, dialect, familial relation, economics, profession groups, and many other elements beyond merely exercising "leadership".


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## SeeKer.mm

Now I can really see where this thread is getting fun.  I think I understand where both sides are coming from.  Seeing that we are taught as Masons that we meet on the level, it is a rather difficult concept to understand when it is said that there are classes in Masonry.  However, I also see the point in giving allegiance and respect to those who take lead and we honor and respect them for their character and actions.  I had a good lessons in this balance tonight.  As luck would have it, I went to a table lodge, and unbeknownst to me, our Most Worship Grand Master of the State of CT Gary W. Arseneau was in attendance (he is a member of the host lodge).  The man has a great charisma and emulated good character and leadership when he spoke to us as a group of Brethren.  When the man spoke, people shut up and listened however, when he came to our table and spoke to us as individuals, I really felt at ease in conversing with him on the level and truly felt his brotherly love and friendship.  When he gave me his Grand Master's Pin, I felt very honored and will wear it with pride.  When I stated earlier in the thread that Masonry has no classes, I think I was thinking in more of the sociological sense of the word that Brother Maloney described, however, after experiencing tonight's table lodge, I see where leadership falls into play and in a way creates a class within the Fraternity, even it may be perceived and not necessarily inherited by birth, or determined on how much money you have, but then again a Master's Wages are not usually monetary....anyways I digress.  To my EA Brothers and anyone else who has not been to a table lodge, I wholeheartedly recommend attending one.  I know in the State of CT all table lodges are open on the EA degree so all can participate in this fellowship.  Not sure about any other jurisdictions.


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## jvarnell

Well said SeeKer.mm as you can see I am notvery good at getting my word on paper (webpage) but I know that not having classes and welcoming others to the fraternity on the same level is what attracted me to masonary.  I want the guy from the philippines that is now in Japan to want to be a Mason because of this.


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## Brent Heilman

I think some of the difference people are talking about here depend on how you are defining class. Like so many words in the English language it has multiple meanings and because one person is using it in a way you are not does not make them wrong. Yes, we all are on the level we each other, but one could just as easily say that the different classes of people we see in Masonry could be divided as the people who lead being one class, those who follow a different, and those that just want everything to stay the same in another. I agree with Brother Porter there is a class system at work here. Like he said we pay honors to certain people and acknowledge them in a certain way. It isn't a bad thing that we have it either. I just think that when someone says there are different classes people have a tendency to think of it like a royalty v. commoner type class. Besides if I recall correctly there is a little something we are all familiar with about there being 3 classes of workmen at the building of King Solomon's Temple.


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## BryanMaloney

A class system presumes rigidity--the low remain low with little to no opportunity to be raised and little to no inclination for the high to help raise them.


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## jvarnell

Brent Heilman said:


> I think some of the difference people are talking about here depend on how you are defining class. Like so many words in the English language it has multiple meanings and because one person is using it in a way you are not does not make them wrong. Yes, we all are on the level we each other, but one could just as easily say that the different classes of people we see in Masonry could be divided as the people who lead being one class, those who follow a different, and those that just want everything to stay the same in another. I agree with Brother Porter there is a class system at work here. Like he said we pay honors to certain people and acknowledge them in a certain way. It isn't a bad thing that we have it either. I just think that when someone says there are different classes people have a tendency to think of it like a royalty v. commoner type class. Besides if I recall correctly there is a little something we are all familiar with about there being 3 classes of workmen at the building of King Solomon's Temple.




The original message had an infurance of social classes and I was trying to say to the new guy that we as free men and Masons are equal.  I also don't see that the 3 degrees as classes but that of levels of knowledge as I think operative masons would about there knowledge.  And the deferent postions within the lodge are levels of leadership and knowledge.  Leaders that impart the knowledeg are serving their peers not teaching lower clases.


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## Brent Heilman

Only in certain systems though. There is also the idea of socio-economic mobility which allows people to move up in class through things like better education resulting from higher paying jobs, marriage, and other ways to change class through economic means. There is also intergenerational mobility and intragenerational mobility. There is mobility in classes through acheivement. Looks at some of the politicians today. Would say Marco Rubio is in the same class now as he was born in to? How about some of the NBA players? I would be hard pressed to call them in the same class now as they were when they were 10. 

The problem here is how we are defining class. There are and will always be classes of people no matter where you look including Masonry. This is just my opinion though.


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## jvarnell

Ok I will holler Calf Rope.


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## SeeKer.mm

jvarnell said:


> Ok I will holler Calf Rope.



LOL HUH?  What's that mean?


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## jvarnell

SeeKer.mm said:


> LOL HUH? What's that mean?



Well in the literal since it mean I have roped the calf and tied 3 of his legs together and he is prepaired for branding.  When someone says it on a foram this is what I say it  means,  I am tired of this and will stop arguing about it.


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## SeeKer.mm

jvarnell said:


> SeeKer.mm said:
> 
> 
> 
> LOL HUH? What's that mean?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well in the literal since it mean I have roped the calf and tied 3 of his legs together and he is prepaired for branding.  When someone says it on a foram this is what I say it  means,  I am tired of this and will stop arguing about it.
Click to expand...


Ahhh I get! Thanks!


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## Marc lester

And that is why I want to to be a Freemason ! After seeing this thread and sharing me more knowledge I just hope I could a find a lodge near my place , was so surprise that this thread is so active and saw some of you sharing their points of view and knowledge  thanks guys !


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## jvarnell

Thank you for asking.


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## Frater Cliff Porter

I think to in our American culture especially, we have infused in our collective consciousness a distaste for the idea of class and a love of the underdog.  It makes sense, we broke the royal class system supposedly when we formed our country.  However, immediately it returned and provided much contention by the time of the Jefferson presidency when an entire political party was dedicated to the idea of a ruling aristocracy that shared power. 

I simply think it is intellectually dishonest or even dangerous to decide something does not exist in place a or b because we love it and we don't like this thing we are discussing.  Better to recognize its existence and manage it.  The story of the shadow.  Denial equals psychosis and recognition equals balance.


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## Frater Cliff Porter

From a message from Jvarnell


> I don't understand why with all of things you have studied and writen you don't understand about classes. I can only guess that the EA work in your state is not the same as the great state of Texas. You do sound like a self serving detective I knew in the Dallas PD that now after the DNA project in Texas has had has had about 28% of his cases overturned where the people had bencovicted.
> 
> Please think about your EA work and what qulifys a man to be made a mason. If you are a real Mason and can remember your work you will know what I am talking about in not look up the word Cowan. This whole thing about class makes me wonder.



I have always found it interesting that some will be cruel in private and not in public while trying to convince someone to be "Masonic."

I don't think men need to agree to be Brothers.  I also don't think that sending a private message with personal pokes and insults is necessary.  I think it shows a certain level of immaturity of thought.

Brother Jvarnell, you are my Brother.  We disagree.  Its not the end of the world.  Masonry isn't about men always agreeing, its about men that don't agree agreeing to still love one another in spite of those differences.  

I don't think that sending private attacks while maintaining a public face of harmony is Masonic.  I don't respond to these kinds of things and have private close door arguments.  What I have to say I am comfortable saying right here on the forum or I do not say them.


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## SeeKer.mm

I agree we should agree to disagree for if we all agreed the forums would be quite boring!


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## polmjonz

Having been in the Philippines and having plenty of Filipino family and friends i can suggest that Masonry has a tendency to be regarded as reserved for the well to do, and the thought of being a part of it can be a big deal to somebody who may not be from that upbringing.  I remember i took a school teacher friend of mine to a Christmas party in Bahrain that was sponsored by the Traveler's Tribe there among a few other organization. we had a long discussion on the ride back to his house about what i thought about Masonry and what his thoughts were. Unfortunately at the time i was speaking as a profane outside the door and my discussion was based on what i have seen from the Masons i had known until that time and how i perceived them.  I wish this gentleman luck in is search as i know it can be a difficult one especially when you are hungry.  Marc make sure you are trying to join for the right reasons and those my friend only you will know although I'm sure you will be asked multiple times during your quest.  I will tell you that Masonry in and of itself will not make you financially wealthy and should not be relied up on for it's relief, but will put you in the company of many good men whose ideals are some of the best in the world.  As I've said before Sir, Good Luck to you and if i can be of further assistance in anyway please let me know.


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## polmjonz

BTW, good on you Bro. Porter. although i have no knowledge of that topic i must agree with your stance.


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## jvarnell

Frater Cliff Porter said:


> From a message from Jvarnell
> 
> 
> I have always found it interesting that some will be cruel in private and not in public while trying to convince someone to be "Masonic."
> 
> I don't think men need to agree to be Brothers. I also don't think that sending a private message with personal pokes and insults is necessary. I think it shows a certain level of immaturity of thought.
> 
> Brother Jvarnell, you are my Brother. We disagree. Its not the end of the world. Masonry isn't about men always agreeing, its about men that don't agree agreeing to still love one another in spite of those differences.
> 
> I don't think that sending private attacks while maintaining a public face of harmony is Masonic. I don't respond to these kinds of things and have private close door arguments. What I have to say I am comfortable saying right here on the forum or I do not say them.



I was not trying to be "cruel"  I was trying to under stand and I thought that this was better done between brothers.  This was far from being an attack.  I just belive you are wrong!   I also thought that if you looked at your EA and actuly think about what it says you will see you are wrong.  I also and sorry that you are so wrong in your thinking that you thought that my privet messages was to attack you it was to try to get you to think about the word class and where it cam from.

I don't mind schooling author in public about the base or root of something.  I was doing a privet message so that you had time to rethink some of the most basic parts of masanry this was not about YOU it was about Masonary and the guy in Japan getting off to a good starts of the tenants in Masonary.  I already hollered cafe rope and sent you a privet message so we could continue this discussion.   I JUST DON'T UNDERSTAND why some of the symbols in the EA have alluded you.  

Did you want me to say more in Public..............................


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## Frater Cliff Porter

You can feel free to say as you wish.  I understand your emotional response to the subject.  You can "school" me all you like.  I didn't write a book to stop learning, I wrote a book to share the process of learning that I am undergoing with others.

There is an edge to your tone and an underlying sub-context to your words indicative of someone who has some long standing thoughts and issues with groups or people they have relegated to authoritative.  In other words, you have created a class; but me in one and you in the other  

I don't believe its necessary for me to single out the personal insults that were intended as such.  I take no offense and understand that we all respond to disagreement differently.

Instead of repeating that I don't understand something, as I recall all of the working tools of the EA degree and the other symbols present to include the point within the circle bordered by two parallel lines are all monitorial.  Why not provide how Masonry, in its teachings and ritual, are anti-class as you have claimed?  I don't believe this argument can be supported well when the practices of Freemasonry are taken into consideration and would be happy to provide legitimate argument of the same once I understood your position more than a simple accusation that I misunderstand Freemasonry.


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## Marc lester

Thank you sir polmjonz  I do understand that I wouldn't get a financial wealth being a mason I  want to acquire more than a financial wealth  knowledge and I wanna become a better man through freemasonry teachings again thanks for piece of knowledge that I gained here again today


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## jvarnell

I don't know what I can and can not say but it had nothing to do with working tools it had to do with why you did certain things in it ritual.  Also all of the working tools are just that tools to implement conecpts thought to us in the rituals to the end all to be all.  I was hoping your mind would have focused on what I trying to point out and not what I was pointing with.

I don't know who you are, we are not within the confines of a lodge and I don't really know how much I am able to say on a forum like this that is public.  You have already posted a privet message and I take the Obligation to hart.

It is done,  say your last words to try to cut me down to a lower class ;^) and that not said as a personal insult.


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## Brent Heilman

I think we just need to agree to disagree. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions. Classes or no classes in Masonry is not a life changing topic. Some us say there are classes and some don't think so. Whatever the case may be they are nothing more than opinions. Nothing about the classes is factual, and is all open to interpretation. The symbols used in Masonry are but that, symbols. I may interpret one thing in one way and some other guy may interpret it in a different way. Neither of us are wrong, we simply have different opinions on what a particular symbol may mean. This is no different and I think we are starting to drift too far off topic and need to look at what the original question was and get back on topic. If you want start a new thread and continue there without the attacks.


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## polmjonz

Marc, 
Also be aware that there are currently two non-PHA Grand Lodges in the Philippines.  A number of years ago a group of lodges from the Cavite area and one from Pampanga ceded from the grand lodge of the Philippines.  I am yet unaware that they have been granted recognition by the UGLE.  So if you were to decide to return to the Philippines to start your journey i would find out which lodge your petitioning to and if the Independent Grand Lodge Philippine Islands has received recognition from UGLE.  It may not matter much in your local experience but it may play into some of the global benefits of being a Mason.  There used to be a lengthy dissertation of what an why the separation occurred on the IGLPI website and there is some very good information on the site historically speaking of Masonry in the Philippines.  Again Pare, If you need any assistance or further help with information let me know and ill help out as much as i can.


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## JustinScott

It says the same for me and I am not one either the forums says I am by default


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