# Masonic symbols use in brand



## Peterhuppel (Aug 25, 2019)

I'm starting a clothing brand. 
I've always been interested in freemasonry (not a mason myself) and want to use the some masonic symbolism in the logo.
I don't want to offend any one or something. So wanted to ask do you guys think it's ok, or is it not appreciated.


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## jermy Bell (Aug 25, 2019)

That's a loaded question. There are companies that manufacturers clothing for masonic purposes. And other items. So, if it kept affordable and don't think your gonna get rich quick. I would say it's alright.


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## David612 (Aug 25, 2019)

Nope.


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## Bill Lins (Aug 25, 2019)

Peterhuppel said:


> I'm starting a clothing brand.
> I've always been interested in freemasonry (not a mason myself) and want to use the some masonic symbolism in the logo.
> I don't want to offend any one or something. So wanted to ask do you guys think it's ok, or is it not appreciated.


Unless you intend to sell to Masons only, it definitely would NOT be "ok".


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## Peterhuppel (Aug 25, 2019)

Thanks for the reply guys.
I respect ya'll, thats the whole reason I'm asking .
Maybe I can elaborate a bit further and get your opinions.

The logo will have a 33 and a compass. 

Thatsbasically the references. If its still not appreciated, I understand, but just wanted to know .
Thanks


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## Winter (Aug 26, 2019)

So you wan't to monetize the symbols of our fraternity with zero respect to what they actually mean?  You may want to revise your business model.  Even though there are laws on the books in most states that make this illegal, they are no longer enforced.  That being said, it would not be appreciated by a significant amount of us.


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## Peterhuppel (Aug 26, 2019)

Thanks for the reply.

No it's definitely not about profit or anything. I just wanted to make a nice clothing brand, that looked nice.
But I will probably change it then.
All tough it was not like I was going to use a full masonic symbol or anything.

Only the number "33" and a "compass" and the word Degree.

I don't think a compass and a number on it's own is inappropriate, but I don't know, so thats why I'm asking. And I appreciate the responses.

If you guys think its not appropriate. I wont do it. Thanks again


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## CLewey44 (Aug 26, 2019)

It probably would not be appreciated since some of the Masonic symbols are so specific to the fraternity. 

However, you could look into a more Hermetic/Kabbalistic route and keep it pretty subtle. Even a more illuminati look but all that's probably been done before.


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## Bill Lins (Aug 26, 2019)

Peterhuppel said:


> I don't think a compass and a number on it's own is inappropriate,


My question would be that if you don't think it represents Masonry, then what DO you think it represents and why do you wish to use it?


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## Peterhuppel (Aug 26, 2019)

Bill Lins said:


> My question would be that if you don't think it represents Masonry, then what DO you think it represents and why do you wish to use it?


Yeah I guess you're right. I wanted to make a logo with a light reference to Masonry. I think it makes the logo a little mysterious. But I understand that it's not appreciated and will see how I can change it  . I see these references in some other brands too, for instance "Volcom" it may be not so obvious. You in no way have to answer, but I'm curious what you think of a logo like the Volcom one.


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## Winter (Aug 26, 2019)

You.dont need our approval. It really isn't worth our time to go after manufacturers who use Masonic symbolism in their clothing.  And no person on this forum can give you offical approval either.  Only our opinion on the subject. 

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## David612 (Aug 26, 2019)

Peterhuppel said:


> Yeah I guess you're right. I wanted to make a logo with a light reference to Masonry. I think it makes the logo a little mysterious. But I understand that it's not appreciated and will see how I can change it  . I see these references in some other brands too, for instance "Volcom" it may be not so obvious. You in no way have to answer, but I'm curious what you think of a logo like the Volcom one.


Not sure what you are getting at with the volcom reference?


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## jermy Bell (Aug 26, 2019)

If you by a shirt or hat or jacket etc with the square and compass on it, your guilty of buying a product from a company that has no masonic ties. So what's the difference ? Someone or company is cashing in and I haven't seen a dime. But pay through the nose for something I like...........


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## Winter (Aug 26, 2019)

jermy Bell said:


> If you by a shirt or hat or jacket etc with the square and compass on it, your guilty of buying a product from a company that has no masonic ties. So what's the difference ? Someone or company is cashing in and I haven't seen a dime. But pay through the nose for something I like...........


True. Especially in these days of internet stores you never know who you are purchasing from. 

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## Peterhuppel (Aug 27, 2019)

Thanks for the reply.
I didn't want to put the square and compass on it. Only the compass (in another angle then on the symbol of your fraternity). But as a whole it was meant as a reference to Masons, but I by no means wanted to fully copy your symbols.

Would you consider a brand name like "degree 33" to be inappropriate on it's own, or is it more the use of the compass.

I know you guys speak of your own accord and can't speak for Freemasons as a whole, but I appreciate your opinions.


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## Bill Lins (Aug 27, 2019)

Peterhuppel said:


> I'm curious what you think of a logo like the Volcom one.


Personally, I see no symbolism in their logo which I would regard as even faintly Masonic.


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## Bill Lins (Aug 27, 2019)

jermy Bell said:


> If you by a shirt or hat or jacket etc with the square and compass on it, your guilty of buying a product from a company that has no masonic ties. So what's the difference ? Someone or company is cashing in and I haven't seen a dime. But pay through the nose for something I like...........


The only Masonic items I purchase I buy from our Grand Lodge- that way at least part of the money goes to support our Fraternity. YMMV.


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## Bill Lins (Aug 27, 2019)

Peterhuppel said:


> Would you consider a brand name like "degree 33" to be inappropriate on it's own, or is it more the use of the compass.


I personally would- it has a specific meaning in our Fraternity & should not be used commercially, IMHO.


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## Brother JC (Aug 27, 2019)

Seriously reaching to get masonic symbolism from the Volcom logo!


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## Peterhuppel (Aug 28, 2019)

I'm a bit disappointed, because I really liked the logo.
*Going from all of your opinions, I will change it*, because the purpose it not to offend anyone, or disrespect anyone.


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## Peterhuppel (Aug 28, 2019)

Just wanted to show you guys the logo. It may change your opinions as to whether its appropriate or not. (maybe if I removed the compass)
Anyway I'm not about to use it anymore taking all your opinions in account, but I am disappointed. Because I think it looks nice. Hope the image is not offending anyone as I post it on here. Else I'll remove it 

p.s. I also found someone else who has "degree 33 surfboards" as a name. Never actually looked if someone else already had the name. Of course it can also be interpreted as temperature. It's just what you think with it. 

If I made a little temperature circle with it and removed the compass, maybe that switches the interpretation enough. So it's no longer linked to masonry?


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## Winter (Aug 28, 2019)

Peterhuppel said:


> Just wanted to show you guys the logo. It may change your opinions as to whether its appropriate or not. (maybe if I removed the compass)
> Anyway I'm not about to use it anymore taking all your opinions in account, but I am disappointed. Because I think it looks nice. Hope the image is not offending anyone as I post it on here. Else I'll remove it
> 
> p.s. I also found someone else who has "degree 33 surfboards" as a name. Never actually looked if someone else already had the name. Of course it can also be interpreted as temperature. It's just what you think with it.
> ...


Go do what you're going to do.  We arent an approving authority for companies using symbols that may or may not be related to our organization. 

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## Bill Lins (Aug 28, 2019)

Peterhuppel said:


> If I made a little temperature circle with it and removed the compass, maybe that switches the interpretation enough. So it's no longer linked to masonry?


No. Scottish Rite Masons use the number of their degree followed by the "little temperature circle" to state their rank.


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## David612 (Aug 28, 2019)

The issue in my opinion is that you are knowingly trying to infer Masonic affiliation but aren’t a mason yourself, are employing symbols you don’t understand and are simply trying to cash in on our iconography because it “looks cool”
There isn’t an issue using Masonic iconography really as the symbol on products, look at Masonic Revival for example but I don’t see why you would want to employ symbols you don’t understand to represent your brand.


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## BroBook (Aug 28, 2019)

Why?

Sent from my LML212VL using My Freemasonry mobile app


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## vangoedenaam (Aug 28, 2019)

Hey, you can sell shirts with a cross on it without being a christian. The symbols are free, meaning is private. I have no problem with it, but an explanation to go with the product would be appreciated. Kinda like free advertising... 

Why all the nopes? You cant own symbols that are older than you or your (our) organization. 


Sent from my iPhone using My Freemasonry Mobile


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## David612 (Aug 28, 2019)

vangoedenaam said:


> Hey, you can sell shirts with a cross on it without being a christian. The symbols are free, meaning is private. I have no problem with it, but an explanation to go with the product would be appreciated. Kinda like free advertising...
> 
> Why all the nopes? You cant own symbols that are older than you or your (our) organization.
> 
> ...


Refer to my post above- 
Tl;dr why use a symbol you don’t understand to represent your brand even more so when the intent is to invoke an assumed Masonic affiliation, an organisation with which you have no affiliation.

No one is saying he can’t, it just is a bit puzzling as to why you would want to.


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## Winter (Aug 28, 2019)

vangoedenaam said:


> Hey, you can sell shirts with a cross on it without being a christian. The symbols are free, meaning is private. I have no problem with it, but an explanation to go with the product would be appreciated. Kinda like free advertising...
> 
> Why all the nopes? You cant own symbols that are older than you or your (our) organization.
> 
> ...


You may want to check the law on that one. Many jurisdictions around the world have a trademark filed for Masonic symbols.  Though it is rarely enforced these days.  And you cant equate Freemasonry to Christianity.  One is a global religion and the other a fraternal order.  To completely different animals. 

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## Brother JC (Aug 28, 2019)

vangoedenaam said:


> Hey, you can sell shirts with a cross on it without being a christian. The symbols are free, meaning is private. I have no problem with it, but an explanation to go with the product would be appreciated. Kinda like free advertising...
> 
> Why all the nopes? You cant own symbols that are older than you or your (our) organization.



And tee shirts with crosses are sold to a specific audience, one who understands the symbol. Not a lot of non-christians wearing them...

Circle back to the looming question; why do it?


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## Peterhuppel (Aug 29, 2019)

I don't know the exact meaning behind the symbols thats true. I however have a few friends that are Masons. I also asked them.
They think it's ok. What I really like it is that every Mason can have his own opinion about things! (not relevant but, I was also accepted to a Lodge, but I got cold feet in the end.)
I do agree with vangoedenaam (Dutchie here too  ), that in the end it's a symbol of a tool, that you also adopted and put meaning too. There are also people who use this tool on a daily who are not Masons. 
But it was my intention to make the association with Masonry, so I will not beat around the bush 

*To answer the question "Why":*
I see in a lot of pop-culture references to Masonry, I think thats why I wanted to adopt it with my own brand. 
The whole reason I got curious about Freemasonry is that I saw references to it, in music etc. (free publicity) Now of course that often goes along with crazy conspiracies etc. Which I don't want to do. I will do my best to treat every symbol that has meaning to people with respect. As I will do with Christianity or any other faith. (When you are actually interested and do some research and talk to some Masons, you'll know that most of the conspiracy theories totally ridiculous).


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## Bloke (Aug 29, 2019)

Peterhuppel said:


> Just wanted to show you guys the logo. It may change your opinions as to whether its appropriate or not. (maybe if I removed the compass)
> Anyway I'm not about to use it anymore taking all your opinions in account, but I am disappointed. Because I think it looks nice. Hope the image is not offending anyone as I post it on here. Else I'll remove it
> 
> p.s. I also found someone else who has "degree 33 surfboards" as a name. Never actually looked if someone else already had the name. Of course it can also be interpreted as temperature. It's just what you think with it.
> ...


Good to see it - it helps a lot. it makes me think of Freemasonry, but am about to go against the flow - I think your adopting a quasi masonic reference rather than our logo or something specific, and hence have no objection.

(dodges tomatoes  )


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## Bloke (Aug 29, 2019)

As a bit of fun and for interest - I started a poll http://www.myfreemasonry.com/threads/could-a-non-freemason-use-the-logo-pictured-below.30476/


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## rpbrown (Aug 30, 2019)

Change the 33 to anything else (personally I like 360) and I would be okay with it


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