# Past Masters degree



## Bro. Landry (May 25, 2018)

Since being elected WM, I received the Past Master’s degree. Is this degree part of the York Rite?


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## hanzosbm (May 25, 2018)

Eh...sorta.

There is a Past Master degree in the York Rite.  At one time, you had to be a Past Master to progress, so the YR introduced a Past Master degree to get everyone up to speed without having to actually spend the time in the East.  
You received the ACTUAL Past Master degree, but that doesn't mean that you're a member of YR.  As to how similar the two degrees are, well...you'd either have to go through both or find someone who has who is willing to tell you.


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## Bro. Landry (May 25, 2018)

First part I knew but the second part was what I really wanted to know thank you


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## Bloke (May 25, 2018)

hanzosbm said:


> Eh...sorta.
> 
> There is a Past Master degree in the York Rite.  At one time, you had to be a Past Master to progress, so the YR introduced a Past Master degree to get everyone up to speed without having to actually spend the time in the East.
> You received the ACTUAL Past Master degree, but that doesn't mean that you're a member of YR.  As to how similar the two degrees are, well...you'd either have to go through both or find someone who has who is willing to tell you.


Would the phrase not be "virtual past master" ?


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## Bloke (May 25, 2018)

Bro. Landry said:


> Since being elected WM, I received the Past Master’s degree. Is this degree part of the York Rite?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using My Freemasonry Mobile


That's interesting.

We (Craft) have rules about discussing  the "Master's Degree" (as in WM) so I can't be too transparent with you.

We have an "Installed Board of Masters" who eject all below MM and conduct a ceremony with the man being installed as Master of the Lodge. However, this is never referred to as a "Master's Degree" or "Past Masters Degree" -  but an _*Installation*_.

You mentioned you were WME - did you get this "Degree" when you became WM or before - and does your Const actually call it a "Degree" or is that a term you're using having looked at the YR tree of degrees ?

Thanks -always looking for more light !


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## Bro. Landry (May 25, 2018)

WME? I received it after. It is an actual degree.


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## Bloke (May 25, 2018)

Bro. Landry said:


> WME? I received it after. It is an actual degree.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using My Freemasonry Mobile


WME = Worshipful Master Elect.

Cool. Enuff said. Not _described _as a Degree here


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## Bro. Landry (May 25, 2018)

I know you can’t speak too much, but does your installation have the things you would receive when getting a degree?


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## Bloke (May 26, 2018)

Bro. Landry said:


> I know you can’t speak too much, but does your installation have the things you would receive when getting a degree?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using My Freemasonry Mobile


Yep, a gavel and an apron and a new title


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## Warrior1256 (May 26, 2018)

Here in Kentucky we have a Past Master Society where you are put through the Past Master Degree.


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## Bro. Landry (May 26, 2018)

Warrior1256 said:


> Here in Kentucky we have a Past Master Society where you are put through the Past Master Degree.



We have a Past Master’s Council here that does the same. We asking call it “passing of the chair”


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## Canadian Paul (May 28, 2018)

Here at an Installation the Lodge is Passed and Raised and, all (except the Master-Elect) who are not Installed Masters (ie Past Masters or Reigning Masters) leave, and a  "Board of Installed Masters" is opened, where the Master receives certain signs, tokens and words reserved to Installed Masters. 

This is not considered a seperate 'degree' by the GL of Scotland. Visiting Reigning or Past Masters from jurisdictions which do not have such a ceremony and who would therefore not know the 'secrets' attached to it ARE permitted to remain during the ceremony.

While I cannot discuss the details of the ceremony I will say that a certain part of it remains the most vivid memory I have of my own Installation as Master of my lodge.


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## Warrior1256 (May 29, 2018)

Canadian Paul said:


> Here at an Installation the Lodge is Passed and Raised and, all (except the Master-Elect) who are not Installed Masters (ie Past Masters or Reigning Masters) leave, and a "Board of Installed Masters" is opened, where the Master receives certain signs, tokens and words reserved to Installed Masters.


Its done the same way in Kentucky.


Canadian Paul said:


> While I cannot discuss the details of the ceremony I will say that a certain part of it remains the most vivid memory I have of my own Installation as Master of my lodge.


Agreed!


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## Keith C (May 29, 2018)

Here in PA it is called "receiving the "Word of the Chair" and is the final part of the installation of a WM.  The MM Lodge is closed after the installation of officers (if it was not an open installation) and all who do not possess the "Word of the Chair" are dismissed, then something happens!  If all goes according to plan I will find out what in December of 2019, and still won't be able to tell you any more than I have!

As far as York Rite is concerned, there is NO 5th degree, (Past Master or Virtual Past Master) in Chapter in PA.  As the York Rite bodies are under direct control of the Grand Lodge of PA, and The Grand Lodge reserves that to the Blue Lodge.


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## Warrior1256 (May 29, 2018)

Keith C said:


> Here in PA it is called "receiving the "Word of the Chair" and is the final part of the installation of a WM.


Here in Kentucky the Degree of Actual Past Master is not required to sit in the East. Only if you decide to join The Society of Past Masters of Kentucky do you go through this degree.


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## Bro. Landry (Jun 1, 2018)

Keith C said:


> Here in PA it is called "receiving the "Word of the Chair" and is the final part of the installation of a WM.  The MM Lodge is closed after the installation of officers (if it was not an open installation) and all who do not possess the "Word of the Chair" are dismissed, then something happens!  If all goes according to plan I will find out what in December of 2019, and still won't be able to tell you any more than I have!
> 
> As far as York Rite is concerned, there is NO 5th degree, (Past Master or Virtual Past Master) in Chapter in PA.  As the York Rite bodies are under direct control of the Grand Lodge of PA, and The Grand Lodge reserves that to the Blue Lodge.



You’ll enjoy it!


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## Companion Joe (Jun 2, 2018)

In Tennessee, we have the Virtual Past Master degree conferred in the Chapter. If you join one of the Past Masters Associations, an almost identical degree is conferred along with a three others. The three others are (I consider) fun degrees designed to teach newly installed WMs humility and to trust the advice of those who have sat in the chair before you.


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## Glen Cook (Jun 2, 2018)

Companion Joe said:


> In Tennessee, we have the Virtual Past Master degree conferred in the Chapter. If you join one of the Past Masters Associations, an almost identical degree is conferred along with a three others. The three others are (I consider) fun degrees designed to teach newly installed WMs humility and to trust the advice of those who have sat in the chair before you.


Are you going to be at the UGIC meetings in Memphis?


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## Companion Joe (Jun 2, 2018)

Glen Cook said:


> Are you going to be at the UGIC meetings in Memphis?


No, I hate not to, and I'd like to be there to support Joe Harrison, but Memphis is about 8 hours from where I live. I have to be in West Tennessee later this year for Grand Chapter meetings, and I don't want to make that drive twice in one year. It's crazy, but I can drive to Windsor, Canada or Jacksonville, Fla. quicker than I can a city in my own state. I think some of the guys from my conclave are going.


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## Brother_Steve (Jun 2, 2018)

In New Jersey, the master masons are kicked out of one of the last meetings of the masonic year and a lodge of past masters is opened. The Master Elect is invested with the modes of recognition for Past Master. We call it "Qualifications."

The funny thing is, he cannot witness another Qualification until he is installed as Worshipful Master even though he has seen the degree.

Another fun fact for NJ. You are a Past Master the moment your butt hits the chair during your installation.


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## Warrior1256 (Jun 2, 2018)

Companion Joe said:


> In Tennessee, we have the Virtual Past Master degree conferred in the Chapter.


We have the same in Kentucky.


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## Bloke (Jun 2, 2018)

Brother_Steve said:


> ...Another fun fact for NJ. You are a Past Master the moment your butt hits the chair during your installation.


Interesting, you are a PM here as soon as your successor is Installed and not while Installed as Worshipful Master - during that time you are a Worshipful Master, once your successor is Installed, then you become a Worshipful Past Master (generally shortened to Past Master unless in lodge).


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## Warrior1256 (Jun 3, 2018)

Brother_Steve said:


> Another fun fact for NJ. You are a Past Master the moment your butt hits the chair during your installation.


Again, same here in Kentucky. The moment you are installed you are eligible to join the Past Master Society of Kentucky.


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## Companion Joe (Jun 3, 2018)

Most of our officer installations are in December. Our Past Masters Association has its first meeting of the year, and that's when most people join it. But to officially earn recognition as a Past Master, you have to preside over a lodge for six months. Nobody really calls as sitting WM "past" until their year ends, but after six months you are one officially and become a voting member of the Grand Lodge.


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## Mike Martin (Jun 4, 2018)

Interestingly (or not) under the UGLE "Past Master" is just a term for a Master who has completed a year in the Chair his Masonic "rank" is that of Installed Master.


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## Keith C (Jun 4, 2018)

Companion Joe said:


> Most of our officer installations are in December. Our Past Masters Association has its first meeting of the year, and that's when most people join it. But to officially earn recognition as a Past Master, you have to preside over a lodge for six months. Nobody really calls as sitting WM "past" until their year ends, but after six months you are one officially and become a voting member of the Grand Lodge.



Interesting. In PA, sitting WMs and Wardens have a vote at Grand Lodge, in addition to PMs.  Each Lodge effectively have 4 potential votes in Grand Lodge, the WM, SW, JW and Official representative to GL. In our Lodge the Official Representative to GL is traditionally the immediate Past Master, but other lodges use a different means to nominate theirs. Other PMs have an individual vote if they attend the GL Communications.


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## Brother_Steve (Jun 4, 2018)

Installed as Worshipful Master
Title is Worshipful Brother
Automatically a Past Master.
We were told by the District GM that we cannot refer to a Worshipful Master as "Sitting" Master during introductions.

So, when I sat as Senior Deacon and introduced the following brethren and we had a Master from a neighboring Lodge, I cannot introduce him as Sitting Master of Blank Lodge. He has to be introduced as Worshipful Brother Smith, Worshipful Master of Blank Lodge.

Next question is: what order do you introduce?
Current Most Worshipful who would be the GM. Last year, the GM was from our district so we saw and introduced him a lot.
Past MW
Sitting Grand Staff
Past Rite Worshipfuls
Current Masters, if in attendance
Past Masters, starting with the most time out of the East culminating with the immediate past master who is just referred to as Worshipful Brother.

I tried to get the year they sat in the east if I was brave that night.


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## Warrior1256 (Jun 4, 2018)

Brother_Steve said:


> Next question is: what order do you introduce?


Here it is in ascending order.


Keith C said:


> Each Lodge effectively have 4 potential votes in Grand Lodge


Here each lodge has only one vote which is cast by it's representative, usually the sitting WM.


Keith C said:


> Other PMs have an individual vote if they attend the GL Communications.


Here Past Masters have one collective vote.


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## Companion Joe (Jun 4, 2018)

Keith C said:


> Interesting. In PA, sitting WMs and Wardens have a vote at Grand Lodge, in addition to PMs.  Each Lodge effectively have 4 potential votes in Grand Lodge, the WM, SW, JW and Official representative to GL. In our Lodge the Official Representative to GL is traditionally the immediate Past Master, but other lodges use a different means to nominate theirs. Other PMs have an individual vote if they attend the GL Communications.



Here, WMs and Wardens have the lodge votes, but all PMs are permanent voting members of the GL. 
Honestly, in my opinion, I wished we didn't. Many of our problems trying to move forward come from voting PMs. I'd really like it if it were one lodge, one vote with delegates voting the will of the lodge.
We've gotten into arguments before over that very issue. Come GL time we've had people try to make motions that everyone vote for or against a proposal. I've refused because my vote is mine, and if that conflicts with the membership, so be it. I'm going to vote my conscience. The lodge reps need to vote how the lodge wants, but PMs' votes are their personal votes.


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## dfreybur (Jun 4, 2018)

Companion Joe said:


> Here, WMs and Wardens have the lodge votes, but all PMs are permanent voting members of the GL.
> Honestly, in my opinion, I wished we didn't. Many of our problems trying to move forward come from voting PMs. I'd really like it if it were one lodge, one vote with delegates voting the will of the lodge.
> We've gotten into arguments before over that very issue. Come GL time we've had people try to make motions that everyone vote for or against a proposal. I've refused because my vote is mine, and if that conflicts with the membership, so be it. I'm going to vote my conscience. The lodge reps need to vote how the lodge wants, but PMs' votes are their personal votes.



In the California system each lodge has 4 votes.  WM, SW, JW.  Plus all of the PMs assembled get a vote on topics they can agree upon.  Some lodges achieve this agreement by assigning that vote to a specific PM but there are no jurisdiction wide rules for how to conduct that vote.  To me it's a good mellowing compromise without an influence that lasts a very long time.


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## Companion Joe (Jun 4, 2018)

dfreybur said:


> In the California system each lodge has 4 votes.  WM, SW, JW.  Plus all of the PMs assembled get a vote on topics they can agree upon.  Some lodges achieve this agreement by assigning that vote to a specific PM but there are no jurisdiction wide rules for how to conduct that vote.  To me it's a good mellowing compromise without an influence that lasts a very long time.



I honestly think one lodge, one vote would be the best with a member acting as a delegate for the will of his lodge. I have seen with my own eyes van loads of PMs show up just in time for jurisprudence, vote on a particular contentious proposal, and immediately leave. The way our state is geographically and GL always being in Nashville, a group of PMs from Middle Tennessee can turn up in numbers and pass or reject anything they want.


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## MarkR (Jun 5, 2018)

Here, the only ways a PM gets a vote in Grand Lodge are:
Being a current Grand Lodge Officer
Being a proxy for the WM, SW, or JW (only PMs can be proxies)
Being a permanent member of Grand Lodge (PGM, or having served in a non-line GL office for ten years or more)


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## Warrior1256 (Jun 5, 2018)

Companion Joe said:


> all PMs are permanent voting members of the GL.


Here the permanent members of the Grand Lodge are:
Past Grand Masters
Past Masters of subordinate lodges
Current Masters of subordinate lodges


Companion Joe said:


> all PMs are permanent voting members of the GL.


Here Past Masters have one collective vote.


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## dfreybur (Jun 5, 2018)

Having current grand lodge officers get a vote sounds like it might not matter compared to each lodge getting at least 3 votes, but is it?  District deputies are GL officers.  In some jurisdictions even certified ritualists are GL officers.  I remember GLofIL wanting to expand the number of GL officers and it got voted down, so the GM  appointed them pro-tem.  Serving at the will of the GM they weren't listed as GL officers so they didn't get votes.

Past GL officers can be a similar issue.  There might be vast numbers of former district deputies.  At least one of my jurisdiction defines "past" as a previous elected officer and "former" as a previous appointed officer for this reason.


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## Warrior1256 (Jun 5, 2018)

dfreybur said:


> At least one of my jurisdiction defines "past" as a previous elected officer and "former" as a previous appointed officer for this reason.


I had not heard this before. Learned something new.


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## Bro. Landry (Jun 7, 2018)

Keith C said:


> Interesting. In PA, sitting WMs and Wardens have a vote at Grand Lodge, in addition to PMs.  Each Lodge effectively have 4 potential votes in Grand Lodge, the WM, SW, JW and Official representative to GL. In our Lodge the Official Representative to GL is traditionally the immediate Past Master, but other lodges use a different means to nominate theirs. Other PMs have an individual vote if they attend the GL Communications.



Same here


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