# concealed carry



## LukeD (Jun 28, 2011)

Texas is well known for it's many concealed handgun carriers. I was curious if concealed carry is allowed in a lodge of your State's license, or one that shares reciprocal jurisdiction. I've asked a few brothers in my lodge. Answers varied from "sure, why not?", to "are you serious?  No way." I carry concealed whenever possible, but do not carry into the lodge during any type of meeting.


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## nwendele (Jun 28, 2011)

In my Lodge we all turn our pistols over to the secretary to lock up in the office before the meeting starts.  Our lodge is downtown, no longer the nicest part of our fair city, and nobody wants to leave them in our cars or motorcycles.  Looks like a military armory before big meetings!  Nobody carries into the lodgeroom.

It took me a little while to ask, but I was glad I did.  The WM and I had talked outside of the lodge about CHL, and I knew he had one.  I finally asked during a dinner before practice.  He told me not to leave it in the car and give it to the secretary.  Brother Secretary opened a locking drawer and there were 7 pistols and holsters in it.  There were 10 people at the meeting.


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## Beathard (Jun 28, 2011)

We do the same. Even peace officers lock them up in the secs office.


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## calee (Jun 29, 2011)

We lock ours up as well!


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## Brent Heilman (Jun 29, 2011)

Same here too. Our WM is also a law enforcement official and locks his up too. The lodge is one place I usually don't carry my gun to.

Sent from my iPhone using Freemasonry


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## JJones (Jun 29, 2011)

We have several law enforcement officers that our members of our lodge that carry concealed firearms.  It may not be allowed in the near future but I personally don't see any harm in it if the brother is an officer.


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## choppersteve03 (Jun 29, 2011)

i carry here in iowa but not into lodge, ive got no beef with carry in the lodge,as long as the brothers a cop or has the proper permit. i just dont feel the need to arm myself when in lodge,i mean the place has no widows for cripes sake, if you dont feel safe in lodge youve got problems.


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## LukeD (Jun 29, 2011)

True, no windows. But, some lodges are not located in the best parts of town.  There is a front door to the building that remains open for brothers who may show up late.  We have had a few questionable individuals wander in. Last time I checked our Tyler wasn't an expert swordsman.  However,  It's not something I worry about during meetings. I was more interested in the legality of the issue, and seeing how Texas is one of the larger CHL states, I was interested in what brothers did with their firearms before a meeting.


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## JJones (Jun 30, 2011)

> if you dont feel safe in lodge youve got problems.



It's actually other people's problems that I worry about.  We live in a time where people will even go into churches and start shooting the place up.  Lots of people have wrong ideas about the craft, all it would take is one nutjob who thinks they'd be doing the world a favor.  Lots of lodges, mine included, haven't been as vigilant as they should about who they let through the west gate in the past either.

People always say masonry should change with the times, take the tyler's sword away and give him a sidearm!


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## THemenway (Jun 30, 2011)

LukeD said:


> Last time I checked our Tyler wasn't an expert swordsman.



Hope I'm not out of line here, but this made me literally laugh out loud.


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## Bill Lins (Jun 30, 2011)

LukeD said:


> I was more interested in the legality of the issue, and seeing how Texas is one of the larger CHL states, I was interested in what brothers did with their firearms before a meeting.


 
*Art. 226. (266). Weapons. *
Weapons, either offensive or defensive, must not be carried into the Lodgeroom.

Most of the Brethren I know who hold CHL's either leave their weapons in their vehicles or secure them in the Secretary' office. I'm told that the old Temple Lodge #4 near Houston PD downtown had actual gun lockers for the use of the Brother officers.


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## robert leachman (Jun 30, 2011)

As a peace officer I always carry 
I just leave my handgun in a little room outside the lodge room
Depending on your neighborhood and town leaving it in the car vs locked in an office would just depend.
I don't think I need a firearm in lodge because of my brothers but because of who may show up at lodge and I've got to get from home/work to lodge and back.


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## choppersteve03 (Jun 30, 2011)

i hear you bro nwedele, there should be up dated security measures. i didnt think of the nut jobs getting in, but if you carry conceled and lock it up, how can it protect you unloaded and locked up. btw im playing devils advocate here. but i carry 24-7 locked and loaded even at home i have it on me till bed, then it gets secured but is still accesable locked and loaded.


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## choppersteve03 (Jun 30, 2011)

sorry that last message was mis directed, it sould have been adressed to jjones.


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## nwendele (Jun 30, 2011)

I agree completely choppersteve03, I carry 'till I'm in bed, then it goes into crossbreed bed-mount holster.  Lodge is the one place where I don't carry, and am able to let down my guard.  If some crazy busts in shooting up the place, well, slidin' out the backdoor becomes the only option.


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## Kenneth Lottman (Jun 30, 2011)

Here's a idea let's just change up what the Tyler carries... Get rid of the sword and give him a AR-15 with a 30 rd magazine!  ;-)


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## MikeMay (Jun 30, 2011)

Kenneth Lottman said:


> Here's a idea let's just change up what the Tyler carries... Get rid of the sword and give him a AR-15 with a 30 rd magazine!  ;-)


 
LOL, I can see it now, Tyler Qualification requires an afternoon at the range for weapon proficiency...:thumbup1:   :41:

So then when there is an alarm at the door, hopefully the Tyler will be calm enough not to do anything like...:33:


Or, we could just give the Tyler a Light Saber...

:45:


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## JBD (Jun 30, 2011)

Hmmmm so that's what all those funny little boxes are for!!!  I thought it was Hampster storage for all the snakes or they were storage for the goat stirrups.


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## MikeMay (Jun 30, 2011)

JBD said:


> they were storage for the goat stirrups.




That box is clearly marked...."Easy Rider"


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## JBD (Jun 30, 2011)

MikeMay said:


> That box is clearly marked...."Easy Rider"


 
ROFL - so that's what that means - whew I have been wondering - no one could esplain it to me -


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## MikeMay (Jun 30, 2011)

Glad I could help, brother, glad I could help!  ;-)


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## jwhoff (Jul 1, 2011)

No one has mentioned bayonets.  

Fixed bayonets on the end of that AR-15 would give the Tyler the best of both worlds.

Here's another thought:  Velcro instead of leather holsters.  

Tear, Stick, and shoot 'em off the end I always say.


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## Seqenenre Tao (Jul 1, 2011)

I find this thread very informative. I've always wondered about this because I too am a CHL holder and have difficulty parting with my babygirl. I never carry into the lodge but i have thought about keeping it locked in my briefcase while in lodge but i dont and never will. I agree with some posts that carry until bed time; right on bros.

SHAW


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## choppersteve03 (Jul 1, 2011)

2nd amendment brothers


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## scrappy (Jul 2, 2011)

*Chl*

In our obligation it states that we will not have ANYTHING offensive or defensive about us in lodge


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## nwendele (Jul 2, 2011)

Hmmm, I remember that not being in an obligation, but what condition a person, who was not yet a brother, was required to be in at a particular period in time.

Are we getting a little too specific for a public forum....?


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## Seqenenre Tao (Jul 2, 2011)

Yes a lil too specific I'd say. Notwithstanding, concealed is just that, concealed. It is a violation of course to even expose it regardless of the circumstances so if someone kept it on the hush hush then who would actually know? Lets just look at it this way: the lodge would be truly tiled instead of duly tiled.


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## JJones (Jul 2, 2011)

I look at it this way: taking the rule out about carrying weapons to lodge would likely cause problems and adding an amendment to allow concealed weapons would do the same.  That being said, I've noticed most brothers tend to look the other way if the carrier is in law enforcement.

Putting your guns in the secretaries desk or in a gun locker seems about as useful defensively as not having brought them at all.  If some nut busts into lodge with a gun we'd all be in the Celestial Lodge before anyone could scramble for something to defend themselves with.

I get the purpose of not bringing anything offensive or defensive into a lodge but it goes without saying that times change.  Don't get me wrong, I've known some brethren that I wouldn't trust with a gun (that ties back to watching the West gate) but I doubt I'll ever complain if I know a peace officer is concealing.


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## nwendele (Jul 2, 2011)

JJones said:


> Putting your guns in the secretaries desk or in a gun locker seems about as useful defensively as not having brought them at




You are 100% correct, but we are carrying for the drive to the lodge, or if we came straight from work.  We carry all the time.  Locking them up isn't trying to defend ourselves in Lodge, it is removing our defenses of the outside world once we get to Lodge.


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## Bro. Stewart P.M. (Jul 2, 2011)

I have only a few words here...


Remember your E.A. work & Lecture
Leave all weapons at home or in secured lock up

I would also like to note in addition to the "gun" discussion that I have also seen Brethren asked to leave their pocket knives outside of the Lodge Room, this includes a current visiting DDGM's personal guests.

Leave the Offensive and Defensive weapons at home or in your car, boys!!


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## LukeD (Jul 2, 2011)

I'm sure the State and district have a lot to do with how comfortable Brothers are with concealed carry in and around the lodge. Some Brothers go to lodge in blue jeans, T-shirt, and boots. Others are coattails and white gloves.  It just depends on the personality of the lodge. I think this will be an actual issue if something ever does happen in a lodge, just like everything changed in out airports and schools. Times are changing, and there are more nut jobs who take it upon themselves to inflict harm on those they do not understand or agree with.  Masonry is one of those organizations people constantly mislabel, or spread false rumors and accusations about.


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## Bill Lins (Jul 2, 2011)

Once again, Brethren...

*Art. 226. (266). Weapons.* "Weapons, either offensive or defensive, must not be carried into the Lodgeroom."

There is nothing in _any_ of the obligations, except the first "furthermore" of the Master's, which addresses this issue.


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## LukeD (Jul 2, 2011)

Out of curiosity, could a Lodges' bylaws change this rule to allow it?  Or, can they not change or take away anything from the GL law book?


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## Bill Lins (Jul 2, 2011)

A Lodge's bylaws cannot conflict with GL law.

*Art. 220. (260). By.Laws: Void if Conflicting with Constitution or Laws.* 

"All by-laws or regulations of a Subordinate Lodge contravening, or in conflict with, the Constitution or Laws of the Grand Lodge, shall be null and void and such is the case even though the Grand Lodge may have approved such by-laws or regulations."


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## LukeD (Jul 2, 2011)

Good info to know. Thank you.


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## Bro. Stewart P.M. (Jul 2, 2011)

Bill_Lins77488 said:


> Once again, Brethren...
> 
> *Art. 226. (266). Weapons.* "Weapons, either offensive or defensive, must not be carried into the Lodgeroom."
> 
> There is nothing in _any_ of the obligations, except the first "furthermore" of the Master's, which addresses this issue.


 
I corrected my original comment to "lecture".


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## DanielFerszt (Jul 3, 2011)

Good idea!


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## cemab4y (Jul 7, 2011)

I am in Atlanta for a brief business trip. I have visited a couple of Georgia lodges, and prominently posted, there is a poster up on the wall in every lodge room, stating, that no one is permitted to carry a weapon into the lodge room. I spoke with a retired law enforcement officer (Mason), and he stated that the Grand Master will not make an exception even for law enforcement officers on duty. A couple of his co-workers, withdrew their petitions, when they were informed that weapons were not permitted in the lodge room.


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## nwendele (Jul 7, 2011)

cemab4y said:


> and prominently posted, there is a poster up on the wall in every lodge room,


This might open up a whole 'nother can of worms, but Lodge is my home away from home.  I don't have any signs saying what I can't do in my living room, I sure as heck don't want one hanging up in my lodge.  Maybe that is just my grumpy independent Texan side speaking, or maybe I think Brethren can tell each other the rules of the house face to face.


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## LukeD (Jul 7, 2011)

I was just thinking the other day about my last CHL course, and how I was told a business, or other establishment actually has to post a sign on their building stating that concealed carry is not permitted if there is no legal reason why a person couldn't carry there. This does not pertain to the already off-limits areas such as schools, churches, bars, airports, Federal buildings, ect...  Not that I have a problem with my lodge rules, but I just put it out there for thought.


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## Mac (Jul 8, 2011)

I guess they're not really legally banning us from carrying concealed by civilian law (sign required).  The rules of our group just forbid us from doing it.  A brother in Idaho was joking with me about the gun safe in his secretary's office where brothers could check their weapons in before meetings... 

And I thought WE were the wild west.


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## choppersteve03 (Jul 12, 2011)

me and a brother at lodge where talking about this tonight, we both carry he a snub .38 smith and i a beretta 9mm. under iowas laws any vet with an honerable dicharge and a dd214 can get a permit here, no class or nuthn just 50 bucks and honerable service to the country. well long story short we leave our guns in the trucks,but we live in small town iowa half of us dont even lock our trucks down town.


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## jwhoff (Jul 15, 2011)

Similar situation down here in Houston.  Only difference is, the car thieves are the ones who leave 'em unlocked when they finish stripping 'em down.

:crying:


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## LukeD (Jul 15, 2011)

Ouch. Did you loose one?  Or, was it stolen I should say?


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## choppersteve03 (Jul 16, 2011)

i havent had one stolen yet,knock on wood.


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## robert leachman (Jul 16, 2011)

In the "Lodge Room" is NOT the sane as carrying in the lodge building!
As a Texas peace officer I carry every where I go. (yes in church too-whole nother discussion there). As I stated somewhere else on those pages, I don't vast on the lodge room itself when it's a tiled meeting, I leave it in a little room next to the door.  My home lodge peace officers   Do this and I've seen it done in other lodges too.


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## choppersteve03 (Jul 16, 2011)

you brothers in texas take this shit seriously.


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## THemenway (Jul 17, 2011)

yippee ki-yay My Friend


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