# York Rite/ Scottish Rite



## Bro. Craftsman777 (Aug 31, 2013)

Here's a random question that popped in my head yesterday. I realized in my life I have driven by quite a few different Scottish Rite lodges, and never once recall driving by a York Rite lodge. I was wondering, is the Scottish Rite more "popular" or "open" (for lack of better words) than the York Rite? I'm going to google search York Rite locations in the Toronto area because I wouldn't mind actually driving by to actually notice one. 


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## bupton52 (Aug 31, 2013)

I cant really say that there is a SR or YR lodge. Those bodies often meet in regular masonic lodges on different nights. 

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## JJones (Aug 31, 2013)

I've found that while SR bodies may usually have their own building, most YR bodies tend to share buildings with blue lodges.


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## peruvian (Aug 31, 2013)

Passwords and touches are the same, but the location of the 1st. And 2 nd lights differ. Another big difference bettween them is the rite, in fact you will notice since the bigining, but the stations are distributed in the same way. A trpple fraternal  hug.

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## Bro. Craftsman777 (Aug 31, 2013)

bupton52 said:


> I cant really say that there is a SR or YR lodge. Those bodies often meet in regular masonic lodges on different nights.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Freemason Connect HD mobile app



I'm pretty sure the Valley of Toronto on Keele Street, has its own lodge for only Scottish Rite reunions etc, not 100 percent sure on that but I believe that is what I heard. 



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## Bro. Craftsman777 (Aug 31, 2013)

JJones said:


> I've found that while SR bodies may usually have their own building, most YR bodies tend to share buildings with blue lodges.



Ya I was kind of thinking the same thing because I had never seen a specific building with the words York Rite on it.


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## JJones (Aug 31, 2013)

I think part of the reason is that YR lodges tend to have very low dues, I know our dues are not much more than the per capita.  Many YR lodges can't justify having higher dues than that and it'd be hard to have a building for them self with so little income.


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## Bro. Craftsman777 (Aug 31, 2013)

JJones said:


> I think part of the reason is that YR lodges tend to have very low dues, I know our dues are not much more than the per capita.  Many YR lodges can't justify having higher dues than that and it'd be hard to have a building for them self with so little income.



Ya that makes sense


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## Bro. Stewart P.M. (Aug 31, 2013)

KJohnson said:


> Here's a random question that popped in my head yesterday. I realized in my life I have driven by quite a few different Scottish Rite lodges, and never once recall driving by a York Rite lodge. I was wondering, is the Scottish Rite more "popular" or "open" (for lack of better words) than the York Rite? I'm going to google search York Rite locations in the Toronto area because I wouldn't mind actually driving by to actually notice one.





bupton52 said:


> I cant really say that there is a SR or YR lodge. Those bodies often meet in regular masonic lodges on different nights.





JJones said:


> I've found that while SR bodies may usually have their own building, most YR bodies tend to share buildings with blue lodges.



Could the answer to your question be contained within the actual Ritual... The first degrees of Freemasonry are that of the York Rite. It makes perfect sense therefor to "share" facilities with the Blue Lodges, no real need to have their own building.


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## crono782 (Aug 31, 2013)

Also by nature of the degree work, most SR valleys tend to have their own space. 


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## bushwickrich (Aug 31, 2013)

Not many differences between the two until you get past the 3rd degree. Some of the wording is a little different jurisdiction to jurisdiction but passwords are same. If you ever see a Prince Hall Lodge most of those follow the York rite. 


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## MarkR (Sep 1, 2013)

I don't know about Canada, but in the U.S., most states have only a very few Scottish Rite Valleys, while York Rite has Chapters, Councils, and Commanderies in many locations.  As a result, the Scottish Rite Valleys have larger memberships, but are also much farther apart.  I travel 90 miles to Scottish Rite, while there are five or six York Rite Chapters much closer than that.  So, these much smaller bodies generally meet in local lodges, while the larger Scottish Rite bodies are more likely to have their own building.

For example, here in Minnesota, there are four Scottish Rite Valleys (Minneapolis, St. Paul, Duluth, and Rochester) while there are 35 Royal Arch Chapters and 23 Knights Templar Commanderies.


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## Brother JC (Sep 1, 2013)

That's an excellent point. NM has two SR facilities, 300+ miles apart, with a number of YR groups scattered throughout the state. Unfortunately, the Santa Fe SR Temple is likely to be on the auction block soon...


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## dfreybur (Sep 1, 2013)

bupton52 said:


> I cant really say that there is a SR or YR lodge. Those bodies often meet in regular masonic lodges on different nights.



Is that status standard throughout PHA jurisdictions?  As I've traveled around the country I've seen plenty of SR cathedrals plus plenty of lodges with lists of emblems.  The YR emblems are common in those lists.  The only times I've ever noticed an SR emblem in the list I've seen "PHA" or "Prince Hall" on the building.


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## widows son (Sep 9, 2013)

In Ontario we either share with other York bodies and blue lodges or have our own chapter buildings, though rare to see. 

KJohnson, how's the petitioning coming along? We need to visit!


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## Bro. Craftsman777 (Sep 10, 2013)

widows son said:


> In Ontario we either share with other York bodies and blue lodges or have our own chapter buildings, though rare to see.
> 
> KJohnson, how's the petitioning coming along? We need to visit!



It's coming along well but it feels extremely slow lol. I met last week at the lodge with my cousin (not during a meeting day) and we talked and filled out the application form and the WM and the Secretary were both present and vouched for us on our applications. I must admit, it felt great knowing the WM vouched for me lol. We were told that because there are like 9 guys about to be Passed, that we would most likely have to wait until January to be initiated .
Apparently we will be the first to pay the new initiation fee that has been doubled from $400 to $800 which also sucks lol BUT I believe the investment is worth it!


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## widows son (Sep 10, 2013)

"It's coming along well but it feels extremely slow lol. I met last week at the lodge with my cousin (not during a meeting day) and we talked and filled out the application form and the WM and the Secretary were both present and vouched for us on our applications. I must admit, it felt great knowing the WM vouched for me lol. We were told that because there are like 9 guys about to be Passed, that we would most likely have to wait until January to be initiated ."

• Ya January is a pretty long wait. Patience though, its well worth it. 

"Apparently we will be the first to pay the new initiation fee that has been doubled from $400 to $800 which also sucks lol BUT I believe the investment is worth it!"

• Ya a lot of lodges in Ontario have been increasing their initiation fees and yearly dues, but I have never heard of it being at $800.00.


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## widows son (Sep 10, 2013)

"It's coming along well but it feels extremely slow lol. I met last week at the lodge with my cousin (not during a meeting day) and we talked and filled out the application form and the WM and the Secretary were both present and vouched for us on our applications. I must admit, it felt great knowing the WM vouched for me lol. We were told that because there are like 9 guys about to be Passed, that we would most likely have to wait until January to be initiated ."

• Ya January is a pretty long wait. Patience though, its well worth it. 

"Apparently we will be the first to pay the new initiation fee that has been doubled from $400 to $800 which also sucks lol BUT I believe the investment is worth it!"

• Ya a lot of lodges in Ontario have been increasing their initiation fees and yearly dues, but I have never heard of it being at $800.00.


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## Bro. Craftsman777 (Sep 10, 2013)

"Ya a lot of lodges in Ontario have been increasing their initiation fees and yearly dues, but I have never heard of it being at $800.00."

- Ya, they said there is another lodge whose initiation fee has gone up to $1500, I was like WOW lol




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## Bro. Kenneth Brown (Sep 10, 2013)

Which would you suggest SR or YR and why?


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## BryanMaloney (Sep 15, 2013)

bushwickrich said:


> Not many differences between the two until you get past the 3rd degree. Some of the wording is a little different jurisdiction to jurisdiction but passwords are same. If you ever see a Prince Hall Lodge most of those follow the York rite.



No regular Scottish Rite body confers the 1st-3rd degrees, ever. If a "Scottish Rite" body claims to confer the "first" three degrees, then it is a bogus/fake organization that merely pretends to be Scottish Rite.


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## BryanMaloney (Sep 15, 2013)

dfreybur said:


> Is that status standard throughout PHA jurisdictions?  As I've traveled around the country I've seen plenty of SR cathedrals plus plenty of lodges with lists of emblems.  The YR emblems are common in those lists.  The only times I've ever noticed an SR emblem in the list I've seen "PHA" or "Prince Hall" on the building.



This is a result of some unfortunate history involving the failed "National Compact", from what I've read.


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## bupton52 (Sep 15, 2013)

BryanMaloney said:


> This is a result of some unfortunate history involving the failed "National Compact", from what I've read.



Some of it is. There are much more spontaneous groups than those resulting from the Compact. There are groups created simply because someone didnt get to be the WM of a lodge or the GM was stealing all of the money. 

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## Warrior1256 (Aug 24, 2014)

I'm a newly raised MM and very much looking forward to joining the YR in the near future. After that may take a look at the SR.


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## MarkR (Sep 1, 2014)

BryanMaloney said:


> No regular Scottish Rite body confers the 1st-3rd degrees, ever. If a "Scottish Rite" body claims to confer the "first" three degrees, then it is a bogus/fake organization that merely pretends to be Scottish Rite.


I'm surprised this went so long without being addressed.  While your point is essentially true, there are a number of Lodges, about ten I think, in New Orleans that were originally chartered as Scottish Rite Craft Lodges, and still operate as such with the permission of the Grand Lodge of Louisiana.  Most famous of these is Lodge Etoile Polaire #1.


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## KSigMason (Sep 1, 2014)

MarkR said:


> I'm surprised this went so long without being addressed.  While your point is essentially true, there are a number of Lodges, about ten I think, in New Orleans that were originally chartered as Scottish Rite Craft Lodges, and still operate as such with the permission of the Grand Lodge of Louisiana.  Most famous of these is Lodge Etoile Polaire #1.


I've actually been to this Lodge.


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## MarkR (Sep 3, 2014)

KSigMason said:


> I've actually been to this Lodge.


I've had lunch in their building and have been in the Lodge room, but not while they were meeting, unfortunately.


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## dfreybur (Sep 3, 2014)

Outside of the US there are regular and recognized jurisdictions that use the SR version of the scripts for the first three degrees.

Inside the US it's not quite only the 10 near New Orleans.  California has a French lodge descended from them that retains dispensation to use that first degree script, but they do all other work in a French translation of the YR version of the scripts used everywhere in California.


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## Brother JC (Sep 3, 2014)

Many of the lodges in Central and South America, as well as the Caribbean, work in the SR system. I know a Brother who moved to Puerto Rico and was a tad confused the first time he attended lodge.


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## Warrior1256 (Sep 17, 2014)

Bro. Stewart P.M. said:


> Could the answer to your question be contained within the actual Ritual... The first degrees of Freemasonry are that of the York Rite. It makes perfect sense therefor to "share" facilities with the Blue Lodges, no real need to have their own building.


Makes sense to me. I also like the fact that there seem to be numerous places where they meet, my lodge is one of those places so it will be very convenient for me.


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## Bro. Craftsman777 (Sep 21, 2014)

Brothers, I apologize. I know I started this thread but haven't had much time to look at it.  I have a question though that maybe some of you can help me with. I'm going to be Passed in October.  Hopefully raised in Dec or January and I know i should wait a little before going on to join the Scottish rite or York rite. I was speaking to our JW a little about the York rite, he said he was going to join, one of the reasons being that apparently in England you're not a true MM unless you've gone through the first degree or whatever it's called,  of the York Rite, so my question is this, which body would you prefer, and can you please elaborate on some of the "benefits" (for lack of a better word) of growing through that body.


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## Brother JC (Sep 21, 2014)

Actually, he was speaking of the Royal Arch, which is the fourth degree of the American York Rite (and a separate body elsewhere).
While I agree that all Masons should receive the Royal Arch, I still think you should wait awhile. Of course, I'm in favour of taking your time between degrees anyway.


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## Morris (Sep 21, 2014)

Bro. Craftsman777 said:


> I was speaking to our JW a little about the York rite, he said he was going to join, one of the reasons being that apparently in England you're not a true MM unless you've gone through the first degree or whatever it's called,  of the York Rite.



You're a true MM once you've been raised and that is done solely at the blue lodge level. Although I am a member of an appendant body, it is in no way a requirement to finish the degrees. 

Trysquare gave some good advice for you.


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## Companion Joe (Sep 22, 2014)

Joining one of the appendant bodies does not make you more of a Mason. Once you are a Master Mason, you are as much of a Mason as any other man on the planet. What joining the York Rite does is make you a better informed Mason. It completes the story.


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## Warrior1256 (Sep 23, 2014)

Companion Joe said:


> Joining one of the appendant bodies does not make you more of a Mason. Once you are a Master Mason, you are as much of a Mason as any other man on the planet. What joining the York Rite does is make you a better informed Mason. It completes the story.


I really like this answer, makes a lot of sense.


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## Bro. Craftsman777 (Sep 23, 2014)

trysquare said:


> Actually, he was speaking of the Royal Arch, which is the fourth degree of the American York Rite (and a separate body elsewhere).
> While I agree that all Masons should receive the Royal Arch, I still think you should wait awhile. Of course, I'm in favour of taking your time between degrees anyway.







Morris said:


> You're a true MM once you've been raised and that is done solely at the blue lodge level. Although I am a member of an appendant body, it is in no way a requirement to finish the degrees.
> 
> Trysquare gave some good advice for you.







Companion Joe said:


> Joining one of the appendant bodies does not make you more of a Mason. Once you are a Master Mason, you are as much of a Mason as any other man on the planet. What joining the York Rite does is make you a better informed Mason. It completes the story.


 
Thank you brothers, I agree with you all. I will absolutely take my time between being raised and moving on to join an appendant body.


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## Warrior1256 (Sep 23, 2014)

Bro. Craftsman777 said:


> Thank you brothers, I agree with you all. I will absolutely take my time between being raised and moving on to join an appendant body.


I know how you feel. I was raised last month on the 4th. On the advice of brothers on this forum and in my lodge I was going to wait six months before joining the York Rite. However, next month there is going to be a two day class by which you can go through the entire YR at half the cost of taking it degree by degree. Therefore I have decided to go ahead with it.


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## jjjjjggggg (Sep 23, 2014)

In Oklahoma one either has to have been a master mason at least six months or turned in their proficiency before joining an appendant body.


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## Warrior1256 (Sep 24, 2014)

Here in Kentucky you're qualified to join an appendant organization the day that you are raised a Master Mason.


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## chrmc (Sep 24, 2014)

Warrior1256 said:


> I know how you feel. I was raised last month on the 4th. On the advice of brothers on this forum and in my lodge I was going to wait six months before joining the York Rite. However, next month there is going to be a two day class by which you can go through the entire YR at half the cost of taking it degree by degree. Therefore I have decided to go ahead with it.



From experience you will get a lot more out of taking the degrees individually though. My brain is usually fried after the 3rd one and I just don't get anything out of the later ones. If you just want to get the box ticked go for a one day class. If you want to get something out of it and have time for contemplation a couple at a time is much more advisable.


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## Warrior1256 (Sep 24, 2014)

chrmc said:


> From experience you will get a lot more out of taking the degrees individually though. My brain is usually fried after the 3rd one and I just don't get anything out of the later ones. If you just want to get the box ticked go for a one day class. If you want to get something out of it and have time for contemplation a couple at a time is much more advisable.


I understand what you are saying. I talked to my mentor of the YR about this. He stated that over time I will attend many rituals time after time if that is what I want to do and each time I will notice and learn something new. I really want to join the YR and as my wife and I are both retired and living on a fixed income the cheaper two day course is what I chose.


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## crono782 (Sep 24, 2014)

Seeing the rituals repeatedly certainly helps. Just remember though, you only get to go through them once. In a festival, at most you'll get 9 opportunities to participate. In a class of, say 20, you may be sidelined more often. In the Scottish Rite, it can't really be helped, but you have a real opportunity to get your degrees one by one and really experience them in the York Rite. I'm not totally poo-pooing on festivals, because they serve a purpose, just consider it. I was able to take my Capitular and Cryptic degrees individually, but had to resort to a festival of sorts for my Orders. Such a bummer.

That cheaper amount looks real appealing until a year down the road and you wish you'd experienced all of it first-hand. That's just my .02 though.


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## chrmc (Sep 24, 2014)

Warrior1256 said:


> I understand what you are saying. I talked to my mentor of the YR about this. He stated that over time I will attend many rituals time after time if that is what I want to do and each time I will notice and learn something new. I really want to join the YR and as my wife and I are both retired and living on a fixed income the cheaper two day course is what I chose.



That is a very good point to. In each case we all have to do what's best for us. Whilst you only get one chance to be the candidate on the receiving end, I'm certain you can still have much enjoyment and Light from a festival. 
Best of luck and let us hear how it went!


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## Warrior1256 (Sep 24, 2014)

chrmc said:


> That is a very good point to. In each case we all have to do what's best for us. Whilst you only get one chance to be the candidate on the receiving end, I'm certain you can still have much enjoyment and Light from a festival.
> Best of luck and let us hear how it went!


Thank you for the kind words brother, I'll keep everyone updated.


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## Willaim Perkins (Dec 28, 2014)

Bro. Kenneth Brown said:


> Which would you suggest SR or YR and why?
> 
> 
> Freemason Connect HD


YR for several reasons:
1. Franklin Chap. # 8 RAM, sponsored the Alton DeMolay Chap and as a kid I was headed down the wrong path and it got me straightened out.
2. The ceremonies are to my liking, both what they inculcate and I enjoy doing them.
3. The RA really completes the journey began in the Blue Lodge & the RSM explains how.  I enjoy the military aspect to the Knights Templar to include the sword work & drill.
4.  The SR Cathedral is about 40 miles away, YR metings are held at Franklin Lodge which is between work and home.

Ultimately both paths are well traveled and beneficial, it is the person who decides one or both.


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## Warrior1256 (Dec 28, 2014)

Willaim Perkins said:


> YR for several reasons:
> 1. Franklin Chap. # 8 RAM, sponsored the Alton DeMolay Chap and as a kid I was headed down the wrong path and it got me straightened out.
> 2. The ceremonies are to my liking, both what they inculcate and I enjoy doing them.
> 3. The RA really completes the journey began in the Blue Lodge & the RSM explains how.  I enjoy the military aspect to the Knights Templar to include the sword work & drill.
> ...


Excellent reasons.


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## Willaim Perkins (Jan 20, 2015)

Bro. Kenneth Brown said:


> Which would you suggest SR or YR and why?
> 
> 
> Freemason Connect HD


While both are excellent paths, I went with the YR for several reasons.  The military aspect of the RAM Chapter sponsored our DeMolay Chapter (DeMolay turned me around when I was headed down the wrong path), YR completes the journey begun in Lodge, I liked all the sword work of Chapter and Commandery, the   cost, the uniforms, and while SR meet 45 miles from here, the YR meets at the Lodge between my work and home.


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## MarkR (Jan 21, 2015)

York Rite tends to be localized, with chapters, councils, and commanderies co-located with blue lodges, while Scottish Rite tends to be regional, with only a few valleys in the state.  This is both a strength and a weakness for both.  York Rite is usually closer to the average Mason, often in his own lodge or the next town, while Scottish Rite may be a long distance.  However, I've seen that the much smaller membership in the local York Rite bodies causes them to be unable to put on the degrees by themselves, while the larger Scottish Rite valleys are pretty self-sufficient and thus put on the degrees on a regular schedule.


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## Willaim Perkins (Jan 21, 2015)

MarkR said:


> York Rite tends to be localized, with chapters, councils, and commanderies co-located with blue lodges, while Scottish Rite tends to be regional, with only a few valleys in the state.  This is both a strength and a weakness for both.  York Rite is usually closer to the average Mason, often in his own lodge or the next town, while Scottish Rite may be a long distance.  However, I've seen that the much smaller membership in the local York Rite bodies causes them to be unable to put on the degrees by themselves, while the larger Scottish Rite valleys are pretty self-sufficient and thus put on the degrees on a regular schedule.


I have to agreed with you. In the Alton Metroplx there is one each and we have members from the surrounding area.  Down in the Metro-east there are 4 Chapters, 2 Councils and 2 Commanderies, and all of us help each other.  The Metro-east is also where the Valley is located which has strong participation primarily from the surrounding area.


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## Willaim Perkins (Feb 18, 2015)

While I don't know a great deal about the SR I've always been a fan of the York Rite from my days as a DeMolay.  I've mentioned it before that the RAM Chap. sponsored my Chapter.


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## Warrior1256 (Mar 22, 2015)

Warrior1256 said:


> I understand what you are saying. I talked to my mentor of the YR about this. He stated that over time I will attend many rituals time after time if that is what I want to do and each time I will notice and learn something new. I really want to join the YR and as my wife and I are both retired and living on a fixed income the cheaper two day course is what I chose.


Update....decided to go the traditional route. Was voted into the YR this past Wednesday and start my Mark Master degree next month.


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