# criminal records



## kevhumph

Good day everyone.
I am in Australia and wanting to join. I have a lengthy criminal record from my late teens and have 3 convictions spending 5 years in prison. This was a very tough, rough, very different time for me.
It has now been around 8 years since committing an offence, and I am a different man.
Will this stop me from joining however?


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## David612

kevhumph said:


> Good day everyone.
> I am in Australia and wanting to join. I have a lengthy criminal record from my late teens and have 3 convictions spending 5 years in prison. This was a very tough, rough, very different time for me.
> It has now been around 8 years since committing an offence, and I am a different man.
> Will this stop me from joining however?


Depending on the crimes I would guess, in my jurisdiction (A.C.T)  we now require a police check.
What sort of crimes are we talking about?


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## kevhumph

Range of serious offences including armed robbery. Nothing heanous or child related just grew up a crook since a kid. Now I've changed my life and have done so over the last 8 or so years I believe the time given is enough to merely state I am now a "law abiding citizen" without considering my good character and will.
I want to join because although. I have my own family and live a good life, I know for some reason that masonry will teach me more about myself and the world i live in. I genuinely want to learn which is why I would be upset if I wasn't allowed to because of the life I lived in the past as even a teenager. Is there no way?


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## David612

kevhumph said:


> Range of serious offences including armed robbery. Nothing heanous or child related just grew up a crook since a kid. Now I've changed my life and have done so over the last 8 or so years I believe the time given is enough to merely state I am now a "law abiding citizen" without considering my good character and will.
> I want to join because although. Is it have my own family and live a good life, I know for some reason that masonry will teach me more about myself and the world i live in. I genuinely want to learn which is why I would be upset if I wasn't allowed to because of the life I lived in the past as even a teenager. Is there no way?


It would very much be at the discretion of the membership committee, do you know any masons currently that would be willing to vouch for you?


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## kevhumph

No I don't. My wife's family were stonemasons in the craft which created my curiosity. After researching there's something that tells me this is where I'm supposed to be.


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## David612

kevhumph said:


> No I don't. My wife's family were stonemasons in the craft which created my curiosity. After researching there's something that tells me this is where I'm supposed to be.


Best bet would be to apply for the membership assistance scheme, visit the website of the Grand lodge of your jurisdiction and be upfront and honest about your past, it is a long process for those of us with a clean past and I imagine an even longer one for those with a record, They either will or won’t accept you and their decision you will need to live with.


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## kevhumph

Thankyou for your help. I do appreciate it. Hope I can become a part


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## David612

No problem, given the nature of your past you may well face significant resistance but if that is the case remember there is nothing to stop you helping in your community, learning and trying to better yourself of your own accord.


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## kevhumph

Yes you are right.
Thankyou again


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## kevhumph

Thanks for that, I do worry how to put it to someone though.
I grew up pretty rough and poor. Slept on the streets as a kid.  Not sympathy searching but any time I've just been open and honest about my past or reasons for this or that it never goes unjudged. I just feel if they were to judge me on my past they would be convicting an innocent man, but everywhere I look seems to be quite strict about the rule, which I get.
Probably not likely to go through is it?


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## David612

Can’t speculate really, may well happen.
Masons are human after all and we live in the same world with the same problems, we all have pasts.
If you are in my neck of the woods (Canberra) flick me a message and we can grab coffee sometime.
Not that I’m in any position to advocate for you nor can I help your goal of joining but I’m happy to chat.


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## Bloke

David612 said:


> It would very much be at the discretion of the membership committee, do you know any masons currently that would be willing to vouch for you?



Greetings.

It might not be at the discretion of a membership committee, if you are in Victoria, your application would definitely be referred to the Grand Master.

If you can't clearly demonstrate a change, you're sunk, and the reality is a custodial sentence in addition to a conviction will be something they will be looking for more details on.  And 8 years ago is not two decades....

How you present is critical, and I'm not talking about superficial things likes if you have tats, but your personality and character. I would be asking about if you have kids and how you provide for them, what's your employment situation and your current associates, the stability and path of your current life today and in recent years, what community contribution do you currently make - I would be looking for a sustained change as a starting point before I would look at such an applicant. (Sorry, but being upfront). The reality is I have a person close to me who has had a custodial sentence, but 30 years ago, and I would propose him in a flash, but his application would have the great benefit of a well known Freemason advocating on his behalf, a history of raising a family in a stable and caring environment, volunteering in the community, raising two wonderful sons, a work history showing dedication and a willingness to work hard at menial jobs to provide for his children and wife, the complete absence of drug or violent crime; and armed robbery charge is a very serious one indeed - but again, (and don't answer), how often was the offense committed and at what age and circumstance and how long ago.

However I would say this, your interest in Freemasonry sounds driven by self improvement, the regardless of if you can or cannot become a Freemason, that change is what's important and there are many paths to travel to achieve it.


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## Warrior1256

Bloke said:


> It might not be at the discretion of a membership committee, if you are in Victoria, your application would definitely be referred to the Grand Master.


Correct. For example here in Kentucky you would be refused simply for having a felony on your record.


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## Jason Gilmore

A felony will bar you in Texas as well. It was voted on last year at Grand Communication that any felony conviction, regardless of how long it has been since the most recent conviction is automatically barred from membership.


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## Bill Lins

Bro. Gilmore, your information is incorrect and out-of-date. In 2011 the law was changed to bar convicted felons from petitioning for the Degrees. The following year that change was rescinded. See Art. 393 of the GLoTX Law.


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## Jason Gilmore

Bro. Lins,
   The Law was changed again at last year’s Grand Lodge to add all felony convictions, regardless of the nature of the crime or the amount of time that has passed. I was the JW of my Lodge and put the update into our Lodge copy myself.


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## Mike Martin

kevhumph said:


> Good day everyone.
> I am in Australia and wanting to join. I have a lengthy criminal record from my late teens and have 3 convictions spending 5 years in prison. This was a very tough, rough, very different time for me.
> It has now been around 8 years since committing an offence, and I am a different man.
> Will this stop me from joining however?


The first thing I would say is that this is NOT the place to find an answer to your question as it will depend on which Grand Lodge the Lodge that you Petition comes under as the "rules" are not "universal" as each and every Grand Lodge is a separate and sovereign body. So you need to reach out and talk to somebody at the Grand Lodge of your home state, google will identify it for you.

So amongst the "opinions" I'll add mine and please excuse my frankness. Freemasonry generally accepts men who are demonstrably of good moral character and upstanding in the community, it is very easy to see that you have not been until very recently! So any Lodge Committee is going to be worried by that fact and it will affect your chances. If I was considering your application I would be looking to see what* evidence* you can provide of what you have personally done so far in order to balance out the impact of your previous lifestyle on Society, this would not be nice words but actual evidence. Supposing you got past this point, you will be spending a period of time where your Proposer ands Seconder will get to know you personally and that will underpin their decision whether to put your name forward or not.


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## Warrior1256

Mike Martin said:


> Freemasonry generally accepts men who are demonstrably of good moral character and upstanding in the community, it is very easy to see that you have not been until very recently! So any Lodge Committee is going to be worried by that fact and it will affect your chances. If I was considering your application I would be looking to see what* evidence* you can provide of what you have personally done so far in order to balance out the impact of your previous lifestyle on Society, this would not be nice words but actual evidence. Supposing you got past this point, you will be spending a period of time where your Proposer ands Seconder will get to know you personally and that will underpin their decision whether to put your name forward or not.


Absolutely and very well put.


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## David612

Mike Martin said:


> The first thing I would say is that this is NOT the place to find an answer to your question as it will depend on which Grand Lodge the Lodge that you Petition comes under as the "rules" are not "universal" as each and every Grand Lodge is a separate and sovereign body. So you need to reach out and talk to somebody at the Grand Lodge of your home state, google will identify it for you.
> 
> So amongst the "opinions" I'll add mine and please excuse my frankness. Freemasonry generally accepts men who are demonstrably of good moral character and upstanding in the community, it is very easy to see that you have not been until very recently! So any Lodge Committee is going to be worried by that fact and it will affect your chances. If I was considering your application I would be looking to see what* evidence* you can provide of what you have personally done so far in order to balance out the impact of your previous lifestyle on Society, this would not be nice words but actual evidence. Supposing you got past this point, you will be spending a period of time where your Proposer ands Seconder will get to know you personally and that will underpin their decision whether to put your name forward or not.


I was thinking the same about demonstrating change and community involvement but thought it was akin to giving people answers for a test, that said what we do isn’t secret so knowing what we look for shouldn’t be a surprise


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## Brother JC

I can’t speak for Australia but in California you wouldn’t be allowed to join. Or at least not without Grand Lodge intervention.


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## Warrior1256

Brother JC said:


> Or at least not without Grand Lodge intervention.


Same here in Kentucky.


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## SCStrong

Brother JC said:


> I can’t speak for Australia but in California you wouldn’t be allowed to join. Or at least not without Grand Lodge intervention.


 I believe the same is true here, in South Carolina, too.
 Good luck to you  - may you continue on the positive path ...... I am a firm believer that all men can improve themselves and overcome any past misdeeds with the help of God and a good attitude.


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## Bill Lins

Jason Gilmore said:


> Bro. Lins,
> The Law was changed again at last year’s Grand Lodge to add all felony convictions, regardless of the nature of the crime or the amount of time that has passed. I was the JW of my Lodge and put the update into our Lodge copy myself.


Please provide your cite.


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## Bill Lins

Jason Gilmore said:


> Bro. Lins,
> The Law was changed again at last year’s Grand Lodge to add all felony convictions, regardless of the nature of the crime or the amount of time that has passed. I was the JW of my Lodge and put the update into our Lodge copy myself.


Bro. Gilmore, you are referring to Bro. McCrae's Resolution #19, which did NOT pass. The following is the current version of Art. 393:

*Art. 393. Qualifications.* 
_A candidate for the degrees of Masonry must be free-born, sound in mind, of good moral character, a full eighteen years of age on or before the day his petition is received by the Lodge, and without maim or defect which will render him incapable of earning his own living or receiving and imparting, Masonically, all that is required by the ritual of the several degrees: provided that as to physical maims and defects Articles 27 and 401 of these Laws shall be applicable. However, an individual who has been found guilty of, or has pleaded no contest to charges of pedophilia (such as Indecency with a Child by sexual contact or any other means, Aggravated Sexual Assault with a child by any means, Sexual Assault with a Child by any means) shall be disqualified to submit a petition for the degrees of Masonry. After the foregoing requirements have been strictly met, the question of the candidate’s mental, moral, and such physical qualifications as do not come within the restrictions of Art. 401 is one to be decided within the sound discretion of the members of the Lodge petitioned. (Revised 2015)_


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## Jason Gilmore

Bill Lins said:


> Bro. Gilmore, you are referring to Bro. McCrae's Resolution #19, which did NOT pass. The following is the current version of Art. 393:
> 
> *Art. 393. Qualifications.*
> _A candidate for the degrees of Masonry must be free-born, sound in mind, of good moral character, a full eighteen years of age on or before the day his petition is received by the Lodge, and without maim or defect which will render him incapable of earning his own living or receiving and imparting, Masonically, all that is required by the ritual of the several degrees: provided that as to physical maims and defects Articles 27 and 401 of these Laws shall be applicable. However, an individual who has been found guilty of, or has pleaded no contest to charges of pedophilia (such as Indecency with a Child by sexual contact or any other means, Aggravated Sexual Assault with a child by any means, Sexual Assault with a Child by any means) shall be disqualified to submit a petition for the degrees of Masonry. After the foregoing requirements have been strictly met, the question of the candidate’s mental, moral, and such physical qualifications as do not come within the restrictions of Art. 401 is one to be decided within the sound discretion of the members of the Lodge petitioned. (Revised 2015)_


I stand corrected. For some reason that resolution stuck in my head. Bro. Lin, I apologize.


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## BullDozer Harrell

kevhumph said:


> Good day everyone.
> I am in Australia and wanting to join. I have a lengthy criminal record from my late teens and have 3 convictions spending 5 years in prison. This was a very tough, rough, very different time for me.
> It has now been around 8 years since committing an offence, and I am a different man.
> Will this stop me from joining however?


Mr. Kevhumph, i really hope you consider that there the men who have to decide upon your Petition for membership into their Fraternity might have very real reasons for their decisions.

In Lodges, you will more than likely have men whom aren't allowed to associate with convicted felons. It could cost them loss of jobs in some cases if discovered. Even though we like to think that Freemasonry is something apart from the larger society. But in reality it's not. 

The politics of the outer societies influence the workings of our inner Brotherhood.

Good luck.

Sent from my SM-T377P using My Freemasonry mobile app


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## Warrior1256

BullDozer Harrell said:


> In Lodges, you will more than likely have men whom aren't allowed to associate with convicted felons. It could cost them loss of jobs in some cases if discovered. Even though we like to think that Freemasonry is something apart from the larger society. But in reality it's not.


Most certainly another thing to consider.


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## Randy81

In Louisiana, a felony doesn't automatically disqualify you, but I think it'd definitely raise some red flags.


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## Bird_n_hand

Is it really a freemasons secret to becoming a better man? I too was convicted 15 years ago, I was the last person in my state to go through the youth offender placement, a program that once sent juveniles to adult prisons. It was later seen as cruel and they changed the rules about that. Neither here nor their, I don't have much family and the family i did have passed away while I was incarcerated. I literally was released as a man with the life experience of someone who should've still been in high school. It's been along time since i seen a jail cell. I'm a changed man and I don't feel like my past is accurate to who i am today, my question is why all the secrets. If freemasons purports to make good men better men then even if I'm barred from petitioning then wouldn't a good man have some form of compassion and shed light on a man who wants to better himself? I for one love to help people and people whom I feel i can enlighten I do so willingly. I've lived alot and seen alot that most people can't imagine and I've been able to help people in somewhat similar circumstance. I'm an accomplished proud  man like most of you, needless to say if all men share a father making us brothers would you let your brother stay outside in the cold weather when he's asking to be let in all because he made mistakes in his past, let the man without any mistakes throw the first black ball I say


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## Mike Martin

Bird_n_hand said:


> I'm an accomplished proud  man like most of you, needless to say if all men share a father making us brothers would you let your brother stay outside in the cold weather when he's asking to be let in all because he made mistakes in his past, let the man without any mistakes throw the first black ball I say



I refer you to my response to the original question which I suspect you may not have read!


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## Bird_n_hand

Mike Martin said:


> I refer you to my response to the original question which I suspect you may not have read!


I have read. In my home state of Washington any felon is barred from petitioning, period. So moot point. Also what is a prosper and seconded? I'm assuming it's the investigative committee? And how much away does an individual lodge have in accepting a petition apart from the GL?


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## Bloke

Bird_n_hand said:


> I have read. In my home state of Washington any felon is barred from petitioning, period. So moot point. Also what is a prosper and seconded? I'm assuming it's the investigative committee? And how much away does an individual lodge have in accepting a petition apart from the GL?



You're 31 years of age and convicted at 15 hears ago, so you were convicted at 16 ? Here, that would be significant.... 

"Also what is a prosper and seconded?" -  a Freemason who proposes you to become a Freemason and a Freemason who seconds that application.

"And how much away does an individual lodge have in accepting a petition apart from the GL?" Varies, but everything - GL will never make you a Freemason, a lodge will, but the rules of GL can stop you becoming one. As a senior lodge member, I can put a motion to change those rules, I wold also expect quickly get a meeting if I requested one with the Grand Master, Grand Sec etc who might have the power to give a dispensation to the rules.

If such a man approached me, and the charge was not for unjustifiable violence, rape or significant drug trafficking, I would likely give him a hearing.. but the rules can be very tight in the States and other places.

An application to join is not like a court where its better to set a guilty man free than convict and innocent one - its better to miss a good candidate than let a bad one in. That's my view, but I would think most Freemasons would agree.


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## Bird_n_hand

Bloke said:


> You're 31 years of age and convicted at 15 hears ago, so you were convicted at 16 ? Here, that would be significant....





Bloke said:


> If such a man approached me, and the charge was not for unjustifiable violence, rape or significant drug trafficking,


Yes I was 16, convicted and sent to prison at 17. One caveat though. A juvenile can only be tried as an adult for robber, aggravated assault, assault with a deadly weapon, drive by shooting, murder or rape. Drug crimes get defered to juvenile court.  Not making excuses for myself I deserved to go to prison. It was the only way I could wisen up and walk a different path


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## Warrior1256

Bloke said:


> An application to join is not like a court where its better to set a guilty man free than convict and innocent one - its better to miss a good candidate than let a bad one in. That's my view, but I would think most Freemasons would agree.


Agreed. The West Gate should be securely guarded indeed!


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## dfreybur

Bird_n_hand said:


> Also what is a prosper and seconded? I'm assuming it's the investigative committee?



Proposer - Top line signer, must be a member of that specific lodge.  Seconder - Other signers on the petition, in many jurisdictions they only need to be members of that jurisdiction but the rules vary.  In most jurisdictions the investigating committee may not have men who signed your petition because the signers are supposed to have already investigated your character.



> And how much away does an individual lodge have in accepting a petition apart from the GL?



Leeway only adds restriction one level at a time.  If a candidate is barred at any level, that's it.  Barred by GL rules, the check gets returned.  Not recommended by the investigating committee, might never even go to ballot.  Fail the ballot, not invited to take our degrees.  In no case can any one level say yes overriding a previous level.  More local levels can only say no.

Just checking - Are you aware that there are 2 regular and recognized jurisdictions in the state of Washington?  I don't know the rules of both of them but there will be differences in details.  It might be worth checking the rules of both jurisdictions to see if this particular rule is one of the points of difference.


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## Bird_n_hand

dfreybur said:


> Just checking - Are you aware that there are 2 regular and recognized jurisdictions in the state of Washington? I don't know the rules of both of them but there will be differences in details


I wasn't aware. I thought all freemasons were the same. And that all were under the same grand lodge. Can you give me more guidance in this fact because I will definitely look into it


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## Bloke

Bird_n_hand said:


> I wasn't aware. I thought all freemasons were the same. And that all were under the same grand lodge. Can you give me more guidance in this fact because I will definitely look into it


There are responses from members of more than 10 Grand Lodges in this thread - all will have slightly different rules...


dfreybur said:


> ....It might be worth checking the rules of both jurisdictions to see if this particular rule is one of the points of difference.



Good suggestion - but a felony will be a tricky thing in most places in the States.


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## Brother JC

There are nearly one hundred recognized grand lodges in the US alone, and other countries have one or more, as well.


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## Warrior1256

Bloke said:


> Good suggestion - but a felony will be a tricky thing in most places in the States.


Yep.


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## Bloke

dfreybur said:


> Proposer - Top line signer, must be a member of that specific lodge....



Not here. The Proposer can be from another lodge and even Jurisdiction.. generally done for family reasons..


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## Ripcord22A

Bloke said:


> Not here. The Proposer can be from another lodge and even Jurisdiction.. generally done for family reasons..


So theoretically speaking I could sign someone's petition for your lodge?

Sent from my SM-G386T using My Freemasonry mobile app


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## Warrior1256

Bloke said:


> Not here. The Proposer can be from another lodge and even Jurisdiction.. generally done for family reasons..


Really!


Ripcord22A said:


> So theoretically speaking I could sign someone's petition for your lodge?


I find this interesting as well.


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## Ripcord22A

Warrior1256 said:


> Really!
> 
> I find this interesting as well.


I feel like the proposer would need to be known to be a Freemason 

Sent from my SM-G386T using My Freemasonry mobile app


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## Glen Cook

Bloke said:


> Not here. The Proposer can be from another lodge and even Jurisdiction.. generally done for family reasons..


Same in UT. My father and a friend in OK signed for my UT petition.


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## dfreybur

Bloke said:


> Not here. The Proposer can be from another lodge and even Jurisdiction.. generally done for family reasons..



Fun variation.  It must bring up the occasional recognition issue.  Someone from Le Droit Domain signs, hilarity ensues.

My original petition had signature slots for members (of the specific lodge) and for character witnesses (who don't even need to be Brothers).  I had some Prince Hall friends sign for me as character witnesses back before recognition happened and before I knew anything about recognition among jurisdictions.  California is the only jurisdiction I know of that has lines for character witnesses that don't have to be Masons.  Different for the sake of being different on some random topic that does not touch a landmark, happens all the time.


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## Keith C

Here the First Line signer must be a member of the lodge being petitioned.  The second line signer just must be a member of a lodge under the jurisdiction of the GLofPA.  A good friend of mine from church was my 2nd line signer, although he lived locally he worked in Philadelphia and was a member of a lodge there.  He did accompany me to my first dinner at my lodge and was at my degrees.


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## Warrior1256

Keith C said:


> Here the First Line signer must be a member of the lodge being petitioned.


Same here.


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## Bloke

dfreybur said:


> Fun variation.  It must bring up the occasional recognition issue.  Someone from Le Droit Domain signs, hilarity ensues...



Not really an issue, for this purpose, a Freemason is only one in a regular recognized jurisdiction who we (UGLV) are in amity with. I've only seen it twice - and its always family members from England or Interstate - who will have a great concern with regularity. We just dont have the issues with irregular GLs which Europe and the America's have; there is only 1 other in Victoria - Le Driot Humane and even if a new Freemason does not know the details, the presence of Ladies there will ring alarm bells very loudly....


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## Ripcord22A

dfreybur said:


> California is the only jurisdiction I know of that has lines for character witnesses that don't have to be Masons.  Different for the sake of being different on some random topic that does not touch a landmark, happens all the time.


OR petitions have spots for 3 references as does NMs petition for affiliation.  They don’t sign the petition the petitioner put their name and contact info like on a job application




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## Bloke

Ripcord22A said:


> I feel like the proposer would need to be known to be a Freemason
> 
> Sent from my SM-G386T using My Freemasonry mobile app


Indeed - and one from a GL in Amity, and not just "regular".



Ripcord22A said:


> So theoretically speaking I could sign someone's petition for your lodge?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G386T using My Freemasonry mobile app


Yep, you could.


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## Ripcord22A

Bloke said:


> Indeed - and one from a GL in Amity, and not just "regular".
> 
> 
> Yep, you could.



So it would have to someone who has sat in lodge with a member of your lodge correct?


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## Glen Cook

dfreybur said:


> Fun variation.  It must bring up the occasional recognition issue.  Someone from Le Droit Domain signs, hilarity ensues.
> 
> My original petition had signature slots for members (of the specific lodge) and for character witnesses (who don't even need to be Brothers).  I had some Prince Hall friends sign for me as character witnesses back before recognition happened and before I knew anything about recognition among jurisdictions.  California is the only jurisdiction I know of that has lines for character witnesses that don't have to be Masons.  Different for the sake of being different on some random topic that does not touch a landmark, happens all the time.


UT does not require character references be Masons


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## Bill Lins

GLoTX, on the other hand, requires the 1st & 2nd line signers ("recommenders") to be members of the Lodge petitioned and 3 other references, who must be Masons of either GLoTX or another GL with whom we are in amity.


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## Bloke

Ripcord22A said:


> So it would have to someone who has sat in lodge with a member of your lodge correct?


No - just someone who _could _sit in lodge. The problem with this is we should not communicate Lodge to Lodge, but Grand Sec to Grand Sec, so when it happens - I need to write to my Grand Sec and my Grand Sec writes to his Grand Sec, who might have to write to his lodge, then ..... you get the idea. I've never had to do one myself, but I've seen the applications - the proposer puts down all his details, name, rank, serial number, lodge  - all to try to speed it up. Last time it was a grandfather interstate - seen that twice, that seems to always moves fast - but the bros have always been "connected" at either end... the Constitution and application form is pretty silent on all this, so I guess it works by convention in the GL Sec office.. The guy we will initiate in Dec was going to be proposed from New Zealand, but it all looked too hard, so we just did it by dispensation, where GL signed off on a proposer (WM) and seconder (Sec) who do not know the candidate, but  he is "proposed by dispensation"....


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## Ripcord22A

Bloke said:


> No - just someone who _could _sit in lodge. The problem with this is we should not communicate Lodge to Lodge, but Grand Sec to Grand Sec, so when it happens - I need to write to my Grand Sec and my Grand Sec writes to his Grand Sec, who might have to write to his lodge, then ..... you get the idea. I've never had to do one myself, but I've seen the applications - the proposer puts down all his details, name, rank, serial number, lodge  - all to try to speed it up. Last time it was a grandfather interstate - seen that twice, that seems to always moves fast - but the bros have always been "connected" at either end... the Constitution and application form is pretty silent on all this, so I guess it works by convention in the GL Sec office.. The guy we will initiate in Dec was going to be proposed from New Zealand, but it all looked too hard, so we just did it by dispensation, where GL signed off on a proposer (WM) and seconder (Sec) who do not know the candidate, but  he is "proposed by dispensation"....



In a situation like that.....couldn’t that man just come to dinner and some events a few times until someone is comfortable enough to make it happen?


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## Bloke

Ripcord22A said:


> In a situation like that.....couldn’t that man just come to dinner and some events a few times until someone is comfortable enough to make it happen?


Cannot propose someone until I know him personally for more that 12 months, and the reality is I would not propose someone unless I knew him quite well... which isn't going to happen under those circumstances...


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## Ripcord22A

Bloke said:


> Cannot propose someone until I know him personally for more that 12 months, and the reality is I would not propose someone unless I knew him quite well... which isn't going to happen under those circumstances...



So the “2B1ASK1” isn’t a thing down under


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## Bloke

Ripcord22A said:


> So the “2B1ASK1” isn’t a thing down under


Not really, our GLs do not use it, and its only exposure to it on the web resulting in how I know what it means.


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## Warrior1256

Bloke said:


> Not really, our GLs do not use it, and its only exposure to it on the web resulting in how I know what it means.


Ah, so this is just an American thing. Didn't know that.


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## Andy Fracica

In Indiana, the two people recommending must be members of our lodge. We require three character references but they do not have to be masons. Our lodge requires a criminal background check, which the petitioner pays for, in addition to meeting with the Investigation Committee. 

It is up to the individual lodge to decide to accept or reject a petitioner with a felony.


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