# clandestine masonry



## JustinScott (Oct 3, 2012)

I know these are fake and you will be banned if you are affiliated with them but how can you tell the difference?


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## Brent Heilman (Oct 3, 2012)

There are a multitude of ways to tell. First and foremost will be are they recognized by any other GL or the UGLE. Go to the GL website for Florida and see if the Lodge is listed on their locator. If it isn't there then more than likely they are clandestine.


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## towerbuilder7 (Oct 3, 2012)

a safe way, Justin, is to stick with communication on this Forum and in the outside world with either Mainstream Brethren, or Prince Hall Affiliated (PHA) Brethren.   Any Brother hailing from either Grand Body has proper affiiation and recognition needed to be recognized Worldwide.     in Florida, the PHA Grand Lodge is named Union Grand Lodge, F&AM, PHA...................BRO JONES


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## JustinScott (Oct 3, 2012)

towerbuilder7 said:


> a safe way, Justin, is to stick with communication on this Forum and in the outside world with either Mainstream Brethren, or Prince Hall Affiliated (PHA) Brethren.   Any Brother hailing from either Grand Body has proper affiiation and recognition needed to be recognized Worldwide.     in Florida, the PHA Grand Lodge is named Union Grand Lodge, F&AM, PHA...................BRO JONES



OK my lodge is a free and accepted mason lodge (F&AM) so this lodge is prince hall affiliated?  What dose that mean and how dose it effect me?


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## JustinScott (Oct 3, 2012)

Brent Heilman said:


> There are a multitude of ways to tell. First and foremost will be are they recognized by any other GL or the UGLE. Go to the GL website for Florida and see if the Lodge is listed on their locator. If it isn't there then more than likely they are clandestine.



OK so basically if it is cleared and advertised by the GL I have nothing to worry about?  Are there a lot of fake masons in Florida and what is the purpose of there existence?  To take down masonry or misguide us?


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## bupton52 (Oct 4, 2012)

JustinScott said:


> OK so basically if it is cleared and advertised by the GL I have nothing to worry about?  Are there a lot of fake masons in Florida and what is the purpose of there existence?  To take down masonry or misguide us?



Money and titles. Many people are just misinformed and don't know the difference and those are the men that these clandestine GLs prey on.


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## widows son (Oct 4, 2012)

I too am a bit ignorant on the subject, what are some of the names of the Clandestine GL's?


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## BryanMaloney (Oct 6, 2012)

JustinScott said:


> OK my lodge is a free and accepted mason lodge (F&AM) so this lodge is prince hall affiliated?  What dose that mean and how dose it effect me?



No. F&AM does not automatically mean Prince Hall Affiliated. "PHA" means Prince Hall Affiliated.


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## Blake Bowden (Oct 8, 2012)

http://www.masonsoftexas.com/showth...-Difference-Between-A-F-amp-A-M-and-F-amp-A-M


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## 1LNSTR (Oct 14, 2012)

At the end of the day, the correct answer is to contact your Grand Lodge if you are at all unsure of a lodge's status before traveling.


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## widows son (Oct 14, 2012)

Has anyone ever conversed with someone for
A irregular lodge?


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## Frater Cliff Porter (Oct 14, 2012)

I have not held Masonic communication with them, but I have even invited members of Co-Masonry to lecture at my Scottish Rite temple and they were extremely well received.  I have visited their GL and so has my GM.

I have also conversed with men of all different sorts of irregular Masonry.  Some great men...some complete nutjobs.


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## Frater Cliff Porter (Oct 14, 2012)

Oh and a ton of the Grand Orient guys...which were great.  But, of course, we do not recognize.  But very learned men.


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## widows son (Oct 14, 2012)

Ya the grand orient is something else


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## Jono Quioc (Oct 15, 2012)

Brethren, here in the Philippines, we have a clandestine grang lodge called the independent grand lodge of the Philippine islands "IGLPI", it was founded by a group of runaways from the grand lodpge of the philippines, they also have produced a number of subordinate lodges and are fast increasing, pls be careful not to visit their lodges or converse masonicaly with them, of these pla take due notice and let us govern ourselves accordingly


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## widows son (Oct 15, 2012)

Is there more irregular lodges on your country than regular?


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## polmjonz (Oct 16, 2012)

Brother Jono, that is unfortunate that the rift between these two groups got to the point of them breaking off with a few lodges and is now apparently growing, hopefully in the future some concessions may be made to bring them back into the fold.  Hopefully the future of freemasonry remains strong for our Filipino brethren.  On a separate not I will be in Manila in the beginning of November and hope to meet a brother or two while I am there.  Ingat Brother.


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## widows son (Oct 17, 2012)

Has there ever been a reconciliation attempt before?


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## Virgin Islands Brother (Oct 17, 2012)

We a have a few irregular lodges in the Virgin Islands. What I have come to realize is many of the members don't realize they are irregular or what irregular means. As an English mason, I try to educate them as much as I am allowed to, in hopes that they will come to the true light. My lodge is growing. In fact, tonight we initiate 4 new men who happened to demit from an irregular lodge. They were MMs in that lodge and found it necessary to leave based on the irregular status, and a genuine search for the light and fraternal bond we have to offer. I admire these men for the willingness to start their journey from the beginning. I suspect that not many are willing to do this. However, I feel it is our duty to try to convince these potentially good brothers of the beautiful aspects of Ancient Free & Accepted Masons. 

Brothers, these men belong in our midst. I would encourage you to reason with them, as tactfully as possible for many are loyal. Educate them to the benefits and beauty of the regular lodge. Let them know of the ability to participate in other lodges when they travel. Some don't even know they can do this if they were in a regular lodge. Those who love knowledge will listen to you and they may eventually demit. The craft is to beautiful to allow good men to be lead astray and initiated into what, in many cases, is a well dressed gang. 
Although UGLE does not permit us to recognize these lodges, I believe we should recognize that many men have been deceived into believing they are participating in true masonry. We can guide them to the light and as a consequence increase our numbers.


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## widows son (Oct 17, 2012)

Well put. I'm not sure if it's a problem here in Canada, as I've never heard of irregular or clandestine lodges or masons until I joined this forum


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## martin (Oct 18, 2012)

Oh there is brother here in Woodbridge there is a group of old Italian guys they call there self mason they r recognize by some GL in south Italy but not from us , Oslo in Quebec is lodges recognize from a GL in France but again not recognize from the grand lodge of Canada


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## widows son (Oct 18, 2012)

Any grand lodge that doesn't have a charter from the UGLE isn't recognized and deemed irregular. I also learned that irregular and clandestine lodges are wholly out for profit and make a brother pay through each degree.


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## towerbuilder7 (Oct 18, 2012)

Brothers, you can refer to the Phylaxis Society's Research website for more LIGHT on Clandestine, Bogus, and Irregular Masonry in the Black Community here in America.     www.phylaxis.org     It has quite a few links to view, and you can enlighten yourself on what we as Prince Hall Affiliated, (PHA) Free and Accepted Masons are faced with rather frequently.............It's an epidemic that can only be controlled with proper education regarding recognition and affiliation for Brothers, as well as profanes and petitioners to our Mainstream and PHA Lodges...................


Bro Vincent C Jones, Lodge Chaplain, Bayou City Lodge #228
Prince Hall Affiliation, Free and Accepted Masonry, Houston, Texas
Most Worshipful Prince Hall Grand Lodge of Texas, Est 1878


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## bupton52 (Oct 19, 2012)

widows son said:


> Any grand lodge that doesn't have a charter from the UGLE isn't recognized and deemed irregular. I also learned that irregular and clandestine lodges are wholly out for profit and make a brother pay through each degree.



Actually, a GL doesn't have a charter. Lodges would have to be chartered from one of the mother GLs and form the GL. Every Regular GL has lineage this way. Recognition works differently. There are regular GLs in the US that don't recognize each other, but that does not make them irregular. It can get complicated, kind of, but once you learn what the rules are, it becomes easy to spot a clandestine organization from a mile away.


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## CajunTinMan (Oct 19, 2012)

Now that's funny right there. People are always trying to figure out the inner workings of Masonry while we are busy trying to figure out our own inner workings.  Lol


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## widows son (Oct 19, 2012)

I'm still a bit confused. I'm still a bit new to the "politics" of masonry as I've only been a member for less than a year. So correct me if I'm wrong. UGLE gives warrants for GLs and GLs give charters for Lodges?


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## bstew12 (Oct 19, 2012)

JustinScott- What I do when the brothers in the dark are pretending or wanting to be tried ( they really don't know) I start asking them simple questions! What lodge are you from?  What district are you from? What jurisdiction are you from?  These type of questions are easy and effortless! What these brothers in the dark and light don't realize is, these question are the most important questions to ask! If they get that far then look at the rest of it as a display of pure beauty of the craft!  Travel Light!


Celestial Lodge #231 Dallas, Tx 
MWPHGL of Tx


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## BryanMaloney (Oct 20, 2012)

widows son said:


> I'm still a bit confused. I'm still a bit new to the "politics" of masonry as I've only been a member for less than a year. So correct me if I'm wrong. UGLE gives warrants for GLs and GLs give charters for Lodges?



It's not that top-down authoritarian. UGLE has never warranted the Grand Lodges of Ireland or Scotland, for example. Nobody has. Their lineage makes them regular. UGLE did not warrant the Grand Lodges of the several states of the USA, at least not as Grand Lodges of the various states. The Grand Lodge of Texas has no warrant from UGLE and does not need one. Our lineage shows our regularity. For a time, UGLE refused to recognize any of them on the grounds that they represented men in rebellion against the Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland.

Freemasonry is not a top-down authoritarian body. It's a herd of cats.


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## Traveling Man (Oct 20, 2012)

It may be heard of cats, but with some form of pedigree.


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## widows son (Oct 20, 2012)

Then why the need for recognition if GLs don't need a warrant from UGLE


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## CajunTinMan (Oct 20, 2012)

I think masonry was in Scotland long before was in England begin with.


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## widows son (Oct 20, 2012)

Well I can see why. There are numerous carvings at roslyn that appear to depict the first degree, and there are even two pillar that stand in the chapel. And according to the Hiram key authors the lay out or floor plan is the same as a lodge. A little food for thought I guess.


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## BryanMaloney (Oct 21, 2012)

widows son said:


> Then why the need for recognition if GLs don't need a warrant from UGLE



While UGLE has not warranted all regular grand lodges, UGLE has maintained a status as a "hub" for Masonic communication. At one time, it was probably due to its central location in the capital of the world's largest empire. Now that the empire has collapsed and gone the way of the Archaeopteryx, UGLE still fulfills a hub function from tradition and gentleman's agreement, not top-down, legalistic authority.


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## widows son (Oct 21, 2012)

I see. I still need to further this research tho...


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