# WV Freemasonry



## Kenneth NC Mason (Dec 8, 2015)

Greetings Brothers,

I am a 19 year old MM from North Carolina who just raised in Feb. 2015. I'm quite interested in jurisdictional differences. My uncle from VA was my third ruffian and my Uncle from Ohio Raised me. My step dad who a PDDGM in NC did all of my degrees and was my catechism coach. I did my proficiency a week after I was raised thanks to him and have now done the EA and FC lectures thanks to his motivation ( he , along with no one else in out lodge knows the lectures, we always had to have a guy drive 2 hrs to do ours)

I'm interested in finding out differences between different states. I've sat in lodge with people from Japan, Mississippi,Virginia, West Virginia, South Carolina, Deleware, PHA NC, Pensylvannia ( three from that state) Tennessee, and Marylans. From what I understand the state of WV is different than that of VA and even NC in terms of policies. Is it true that in WV, you don't say the pledge of alliegance during meetings, African Americans can't become Mason's, if you have a psychical impairment you can't join, DeMolay chapters aren't sponsored etc? I heard that from my Uncle since he's in Ohio, and wondering if any of that is true. I would ask the Brothers that visit our lodge every spring, but I don't want them to take my inquisitiveness in a wrong light. I'm always to type guy who wants to know the how's and whys of the beliefs and actions behind different people and groups. Can anyone comment on the WV question? Can African Americans become Mason's in the other southern states ( I think Virginia, Texas, Kentucky, and NC are exempt from this since we all have recognition of PHA, but I don't know squat about the rest of the states) I  know in WV they make you learn ALL lectures and degrees there, which I wish was the case in NC since all you have to do to be WM is serve as Warden. That's extent of my WV knowledge 

If I visit a different state, Ex: WV or PA, should I expect some noticeable differences in dress or ritual? I know in PA they don't have a FC lecture ( I was told this by a PA PM) and that their third degree probably isn't as intense as the one I had. If I'm traveling to a different state, would a sweater vest, long sleeved button up dress shirt, brown dress shoes, and khakis with a black suit jacket work as proper attire?

Are there any other states other than WV that make you learn the lectures  to be Master? I just found out I'm Junior Descon this year, so I'm curious to see what other states make you do , proficency wise to become WM or even Warden ( in VA they have something called the Wardens Certificate )? Is NC the only state to have varied awarded levels of ritual proficiency Here, we have Certified Instuctor where you have to know all the degrees with each of the parts memorized plus the apron lecture and FC lecture along with the catechisms of all degrees then we have a Certified Lecturer, which is everything I just mentioned plus the EA and MM lectures) . I'll hopefully be getting my CI Certificate next August If not, what are the requirements for your individual state ?


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## Kenneth NC Mason (Dec 8, 2015)

Side conversation, I'm a Protestant and am considering converting to the LDS faith. Are there any LDS brothers out there who could comment on the similarities of the Boue Lodge Ritual vs the LDS temple ceremonies ?


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## Classical (Dec 9, 2015)

Kenneth NC Mason said:


> Side conversation, I'm a Protestant and am considering converting to the LDS faith. Are there any LDS brothers out there who could comment on the similarities of the Boue Lodge Ritual vs the LDS temple ceremonies ?


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## dfreybur (Dec 9, 2015)

Kenneth NC Mason said:


> If I visit a different state, Ex: WV or PA, should I expect some noticeable differences in dress or ritual? I know in PA they don't have a FC lecture ( I was told this by a PA PM) and that their third degree probably isn't as intense as the one I had. If I'm traveling to a different state, would a sweater vest, long sleeved button up dress shirt, brown dress shoes, and khakis with a black suit jacket work as proper attire?



Dress varies widely.  Coat and tie always works for visitors.

Ritual varies but not widely.  Collect the pass or not.  Longer or shorter degrees.  Some states like Texas abbreviate the lectures significantly as you describe for PA.  But always the differences are tiny compared to the vast common content.



> Are there any other states other than WV that make you learn the lectures  to be Master? I just found out I'm Junior Descon this year, so I'm curious to see what other states make you do , proficency wise to become WM or even Warden ( in VA they have something called the Wardens Certificate )?



California at least and probably many others require knowing the lectures to be able to be installed in the chairs.  I learned the staircase lecture to be the SD (a half length version is given from the east in Texas). I learned the entire 1st degree from the east including the lecture to be installed JW.  I learned the entire 2nd degree from the east (including the lecture that is completely deleted in Texas replaced by half of the staircase) to be installed SW.  I learned the entire 3rd degree from the east including the 25 minute lecture to be installed WM.



> Is NC the only state to have varied awarded levels of ritual proficiency Here, we have Certified Instuctor where you have to know all the degrees with each of the parts memorized plus the apron lecture and FC lecture along with the catechisms of all degrees then we have a Certified Lecturer, which is everything I just mentioned plus the EA and MM lectures) . I'll hopefully be getting my CI Certificate next August If not, what are the requirements for your individual state ?



Very many states have several levels of ritual certification.

On the one hand I don't get the point of having them in a state where you need to learn the entire degrees to be installed in pedestal chairs.  On the other hand I very much value the principle of praise-in-public so having achievement awards is a good thing in my view.


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## Bloke (Dec 9, 2015)

dfreybur said:


> Ritual varies but not widely.  Collect the pass or not.  Longer or shorter degrees.  Some states like Texas abbreviate the lectures significantly as you describe for PA.  But always the differences are tiny compared to the vast common content.



I agree the intent is the same and generally familiar, but not that ritual does not vary widely.... and not just in slight ways or a few words, some rituals are significantly different.


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## BroBook (Dec 9, 2015)

If you are not a great pretender you need to breathe, my brother, patience is really a virtue !!!


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## Glen Cook (Dec 9, 2015)

Kenneth NC Mason said:


> Side conversation, I'm a Protestant and am considering converting to the LDS faith. Are there any LDS brothers out there who could comment on the similarities of the Boue Lodge Ritual vs the LDS temple ceremonies ?


A great deal of information can found on the Internet, including here. See http://www.myfreemasonry.com/threads/mormonism-and-freemasonry.21220/page-2#post-135039

You could also see the DVD: http://www.amazon.com/Mormons-Masons-Connection-Matthew-Brown/dp/1598119834


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## Kenneth NC Mason (Dec 17, 2015)

Does anyone have to learn the degrees and lectures to be warden or master in your State? In NC we don't, so I'm curious to see what other states require. I think a Master should know how to confer the degrees and at least know the FC lecture since the SD is supposed to do it.

Also, which lecture for any of you was the hardest? I spent this past summer learning the FC, then it took me two months to learn the EA, and I'm working on the MM now. Everyone I talk to in my state says the EA lecture is the longest and toughest to learn and deliver well, not just rattling it off. I've heard PHA ritual , particularly  in the third degree can get VERY lively and dramatic. Having met some PHA brothers at GL, I'm definitely wanting to visit one soon to note the difference between our ritual and theirs. Side note : I wish more GLs in the south recognized prince hall. With us ( NC), TX, KY, And VA having recognition I'm curious as to why others don't?  If they can sit in GL with our grand line AND NC PHA officers, they should have no problem letting PHA brothers visiting their respective jurisdictions lodges. In GA, where some of my family lives, they have African American brothers, yet, PHA is clandestine? This makes zero sense to me. I've met brothers from Non PHA recognizing states, and they're some fine brothers. I guess GL gets in the way with how things are run sometimes. I am proud to be a part of a state that just recently voted to recognize ALL PHA GLs that had recognition with their state counterpart.  I was there at Annual Communication the day it was approved and the whole room erupted in cheers and applause. For someone whose been a mason less than a year, that was a monumental occasion for me,   since I have so many PHA friends that I now know I can converse with.


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## Glen Cook (Dec 17, 2015)

In Ut


Kenneth NC Mason said:


> Does anyone have to learn the degrees and lectures to be warden or master in your State? In NC we don't, so I'm curious to see what other states require. I think a Master should know how to confer the degrees and at least know the FC lecture since the SD is supposed to do it.


In Utah the WM must be able to confer the degrees, including KS, and know the lecture of one of the degrees.


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## dfreybur (Dec 18, 2015)

Kenneth NC Mason said:


> Does anyone have to learn the degrees and lectures to be warden or master in your State? In NC we don't, so I'm curious to see what other states require. I think a Master should know how to confer the degrees and at least know the FC lecture since the SD is supposed to do it.



In GLofCA you need to be qualified for the chair you get installed in.  SD needs to be able to deliver the staircase lecture.  JW needs to be able to do the open, obligate, lecture, close of the first.  SW needs to be able to do the open, obligate, wages lecture, close of the second.  WM needs to be able to do the open, obligate, lecture, close of the third.

Each lodge has PMs better at lectures than the installed officer.  I delivered the staircase and wages lectures in my SD and SW years but the other two years I demonstrated the lectures to (district, officers coach) and asked a PM to do the lectures for live candidates.



> Also, which lecture for any of you was the hardest?



You'd think I found the longest lecture the hardest, but I actually found the shortest lecture the hardest.  In California the lengths go third (long form), third (short form), first (long form), first (short form), staircase, wages, apron (long form), apron (short form).  The wages lecture is my favorite (sad that it is completely dropped in Texas) and the shortest but I had the most trouble with it anyways.  I think it's because it jumps form topic to topic.  I could never achieve a steady cadence when quoting it.

This year California finally voted to allow the lectures to be learned as modules and have different brothers deliver each module.  This method works extremely well in at least Illinois.



> Everyone I talk to in my state says the EA lecture is the longest and toughest to learn and deliver well, not just rattling it off.



Even with the vast overlap of content, the lectures are different lengths jurisdiction to jurisdiction.


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## Warrior1256 (Dec 20, 2015)

I've discussed with brother raymondswalters on this forum the various differences in WV Masonry. Without going into details I'll just say that I am glad I joined in Kentucky.


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