# Is Freemasonry anti-Christian? I think not.



## breddell (Apr 8, 2012)

All,

I am a FC mason (about to turn in my material and move on to the next level) and have really enjoyed masonry so far. I am finding that it really does seem to answer fundamental questions I have been thinking about my whole life. Because of this, I feel that it has caused me to really think about where I am spiritually and to rededicate myself and family to going to church.

I've recently read articles that state Masonry is anti-Christian with a whole slew of topics that just don't seem right from what I have learned so far. The main arguement is that Jesus's name not really spoken in Masonic Lodges and that Masonry offers other routes th obtaining 'salvation' than from Jesus Christ.

To be a Mason, one has to believe in God and most of the degree work seems to be focused on getting closer to God. Although it doesn't explicitly call out any particular God, this alone doesn't mean it is anti-Christian. It allows one to tailor Masonry with respect to their own religous beliefs, and for me, that has given me the green light to pursue my Christian faith even more. Masonic teachings have supplemented the religous work and provided 'tools' to live my life in a manner which promotes my relationship with God in many ways that is compatible with religous teachings (and nothing that is incompatible). I understand that Jesus's name, and for that matter, Buddha or Allah as well, is not mentioned either because Masonry tries to be 'generic' so that it can accomodate anyone's religion. What is important is that Masonry provides the fundamental framework that each person must deal with on their own level, thus making it unique and special to each individual person with respect to their own religion.

I am not sure if I am saying this right, but am I missing something? I would like to hear how folks on this forum deal with this topic.

Thanks!


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## free and accepted (Apr 8, 2012)

One thinv battles me when im in the lodge next to another he beleives in om and thd other next to me hashem and i Allah the one who beleives in om is not the same god as i beleive as he worships idles om is part of hinduism same as you mentioned bhudda i cant worship bhudda or ganesh as my god so what makes us the same as brothers however islam beleive in moses david soloman and jesus but as gods messengers the kast being mohammed yet jesus stated the last prophet will bs mohammed yet the pope and high christian preists unfortunatly erased that from the bible and re wrote many things be true in your faith yet we are not supose to talk on religion when you die you will be asked 3 questions by thd angel of death do you know what you will say also remember this life is an illusion material world yet mankind crave it the next life is eternalyou only take your deeds not your wealth your house not even your masonic jewels nor your family its you alone infront of the one who created you


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## BryanMaloney (Apr 8, 2012)

There will be no "3 questions" from some "angel of death".


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## BryanMaloney (Apr 8, 2012)

breddell said:


> To be a Mason, one has to believe in God and most of the degree work seems to be focused on getting closer to God. Although it doesn't explicitly call out any particular God, this alone doesn't mean it is anti-Christian. It allows one to tailor Masonry with respect to their own religous beliefs, and for me, that has given me the green light to pursue my Christian faith even more. Masonic teachings have supplemented the religous work and provided 'tools' to live my life in a manner which promotes my relationship with God in many ways that is compatible with religous teachings (and nothing that is incompatible). I understand that Jesus's name, and for that matter, Buddha or Allah as well, is not mentioned either because Masonry tries to be 'generic' so that it can accomodate anyone's religion. What is important is that Masonry provides the fundamental framework that each person must deal with on their own level, thus making it unique and special to each individual person with respect to their own religion.



Actually, what I've been taught is that one must believe in "a Supreme Being", which is not the same thing as "God" in the way you or I would use it. Hindus can become Masons because their many gods are all reflections of a single "God principle", but this "God principle" is not necessarily a personal "God" as you or I would think of Him but can be a purely abstract conception of "Divine Being"--something not worshipped or personally known. Buddhism might or might not have a Supreme Being, depending on the type. In Mahayana Buddhism, the Buddha is seen as a "Supreme Reality". However, in other Buddhist traditions, all gods are false and there is no Supreme Being--the Buddha is merely a wise man for them.

Likewise, there are religions that Freemasonry cannot accomodate, such as certain Neopagan and Wiccan beliefs, which might have multiple "gods" but no Supreme Being.


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## breddell (Apr 8, 2012)

Thanks for your reply.  I think you are right in the difference between a Supreme Being and God..as far as what is taught. But I don't understand what you mean when you say they are not the same thing in the way that you and I would use it. Assumming you are Christian, what do you mean by this?

Since you didn't list Christianity as a religion that cannot accomodate Freemasonry, I assume you believe it can. Also, if you are Christian, how do you respond to people who say a Christian can't be a Freemason (i.e. how do you reconcile any construed/interpreted violations such as those listed in my original post)?


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## Blake Bowden (Apr 9, 2012)

The MM Degree with a Presentation of my Book of Faith did it for me. No preacher has ever made me that humble, in my case, to Christ.


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## coachn (Apr 9, 2012)

BryanMaloney said:


> ...Likewise, there are religions that Freemasonry cannot accomodate, such as certain Neopagan and Wiccan beliefs, which might have multiple "gods" but no Supreme Being.


Brother Bryan,

This assumes that SB is an entity.  There are other ways of understanding SB.  SB also denotes and includes "Ultimate Manner", of which all the Work of FM points us toward without exception.

BTW - I have a Wiccan Brother who was Duly Raised in a Recognized Lodge in TN.  FM certainly does accommodate his Faith.

If he is my Brother and I recognize you, than he is your Brother too. 

F&S,

Coach N


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## coachn (Apr 9, 2012)

breddell said:


> ... how do you reconcile any construed/interpreted violations such as those listed in my original post?


A man who has not done the Work that Masonry points toward (EA - Heart, FC -Head) does not have the capacity to comprehend what Freemasonry points men toward.  Trying to explain FM to such a person is like trying to explain the use of imaginary numbers to someone who is still struggling with basic math.  They simply cannot understand.


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## BryanMaloney (Apr 9, 2012)

coachn said:


> BTW - I have a Wiccan Brother who was Duly Raised in a Recognized Lodge in TN.  FM certainly does accommodate his Faith.


 
His "certain" (I should have said particular) beliefs do accept a Supreme Being. Other "certain" ("particular", "specific", etc.) wiccan groups do not. What I had meant to say regarding neopagans and wiccans is that some do accept a "Supreme Being" in a way similar to how Hinduism accepts a Supreme Being--such as "Ultimate Manner", which would be similar to how I describe Hinduism's Supreme Being. However, other wiccan and neopagan groups explicitly reject any sort of Supreme Being. Isaac Bonewitz, for example, both accepts the existence of "gods" and is atheist. That is, his "gods" are merely creations of their worshippers and, thus, can be destroyed by them. Some Thelemics are atheist and "Will" is merely an abstraction with no actual reality. Other Thelemics hold that "Will" is a sort of Supreme Being.

I apologize for having expressed myself poorly. Some neopagans and wiccans do accept a Supreme Being, but others do not.


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## coachn (Apr 9, 2012)

BryanMaloney said:


> His "certain" (I should have said particular) beliefs do accept a Supreme Being. Other "certain" ("particular", "specific", etc.) wiccan groups do not. What I had meant to say regarding neopagans and wiccans is that some do accept a "Supreme Being" in a way similar to how Hinduism accepts a Supreme Being--such as "Ultimate Manner", which would be similar to how I describe Hinduism's Supreme Being. However, other wiccan and neopagan groups explicitly reject any sort of Supreme Being. Isaac Bonewitz, for example, both accepts the existence of "gods" and is atheist. That is, his "gods" are merely creations of their worshippers and, thus, can be destroyed by them. Some Thelemics are atheist and "Will" is merely an abstraction with no actual reality. Other Thelemics hold that "Will" is a sort of Supreme Being.
> 
> I apologize for having expressed myself poorly. Some neopagans and wiccans do accept a Supreme Being, but others do not.


Thanks.  Generalizing about Faith can cause a lot of misunderstanding.


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## BryanMaloney (Apr 9, 2012)

coachn said:


> A man who has not done the Work that Masonry points toward (EA - Heart, FC -Head) does not have the capacity to comprehend what Freemasonry points men toward.  Trying to explain FM to such a person is like trying to explain the use of imaginary numbers to someone who is still struggling with basic math.  They simply cannot understand.


 
So, you are saying that the following question cannot be answered if asked by a "profane":

Does Freemasonry offer "other routes of salvation than Jesus Christ"?

One would think that this question would be very easy to answer in the definite "yes" or "no", and what I have been taught is "no". Freemasonry offers no route of salvation at all. Freemasonry offers tools that a man can use in his route of salvation, but does not specify the route. Consider the non-exclusively-Masonic tool called "reading". A man who cannot read cannot read Scripture and is dependent on the word of others or his own memory. If he acquires the tool of "reading", then he is able to check out the claims of others for himself. This would, of course, make religious leaders who rely on ignorance of the laity rather unhappy.

That being said, Freemasonry does not demand that individual Masons choose Christ, and those individual Masons are not prohibited from using a common system that is entirely non-Christian. They are not prohibited from forming additional groups and coming together in those groups. But, by the same token, Freemasonry absolutely prohibits requiring any Mason to use that system or route and prohibits requiring membership in those additional groups.

I invite correction, of course. Am I wrong? Does Freemasonry impose its own salvific system outside of Christian doctrine? My answer is "no".

Authoritarian/Totalitarian Christian leaders hate Freemasonry for the same reason they hate everything else--it allows for individual conscience. It allows for thinking. It allows for personal interpretation and encourages learning.

Regarding mention of Christ: When I was moving vending machines for Coca Cola, at no time was Christ mentioned officially on the job. Does that mean Coca Cola is satanic?


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## TexasAggieOfc1273 (Apr 9, 2012)

I have never seen where Masonry provides anyone with a plan of salvation. What I have seen though is that through it's teachings, you are more drawn to understand the GAOTU. It is not a religion, or religious, but we are compelled to spend some time dedicating ourselves to God, in order to build ourselves into better men.

As Bro. Maloney said, Masonry allows you to have an influence from outside the church, which is why it is depised by certain Christian faiths. I was once a member of the Lutheran Church - Missouri Synod. My pastor happened to be my (then) father-in-law. At the time I was considering joining the Lodge in Nebraska, but he made it very clear that he would excommunicate me personally if I did. He didn't have any reasons for the LCMS having a problem with it (their website has an answer, but it's not a respectable one), he just had preconcieved notions that what we do is wrong and horrible. 

I have found that some of your other congregations that have a problem with Masonry also have a problem with television that isn't TBN, music that isn't the Statler Brothers, and any books that don't have KING JAMES VERSION stamped on the side of them. What does that tell you?

Masonry has encouraged me in my own faith. I don't go to church (or Lodge for that matter) as much as I should, but the light revelaed to me through the Lodge, has helped me also seek further light in that great instruction book.

In the words of Kinky Friedman - May the God of your choosing bless you!


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## coachn (Apr 9, 2012)

BryanMaloney said:


> So, you are saying that the following question cannot be answered if asked by a "profane":
> 
> Does Freemasonry offer "other routes of salvation than Jesus Christ"?


Oh, it can be answered, but not knowledgeably by a profane, and sadly, some Freemasons.


BryanMaloney said:


> One would think that this question would be very easy to answer in the definite "yes" or "no", and what I have been taught is "no". Freemasonry offers no route of salvation at all. Freemasonry offers tools that a man can use in his route of salvation, but does not specify the route. Consider the non-exclusively-Masonic tool called "reading". A man who cannot read cannot read Scripture and is dependent on the word of others or his own memory. If he acquires the tool of "reading", then he is able to check out the claims of others for himself. This would, of course, make religious leaders who rely on ignorance of the laity rather unhappy.
> 
> That being said, Freemasonry does not demand that individual Masons choose Christ, and those individual Masons are not prohibited from using a common system that is entirely non-Christian. They are not prohibited from forming additional groups and coming together in those groups. But, by the same token, Freemasonry absolutely prohibits requiring any Mason to use that system or route and prohibits requiring membership in those additional groups.
> 
> I invite correction, of course. Am I wrong? Does Freemasonry impose its own salvific system outside of Christian doctrine? My answer is "no".


I agree. But of course, you and I are Freemasons, so we are OBVIOUSLY "under the influence". :2:



BryanMaloney said:


> Authoritarian/Totalitarian Christian leaders hate Freemasonry for the same reason they hate everything else--it allows for individual conscience. It allows for thinking. It allows for personal interpretation and encourages learning.


Yup!


BryanMaloney said:


> Regarding mention of Christ: When I was moving vending machines for Coca Cola, at no time was Christ mentioned officially on the job. Does that mean Coca Cola is satanic?


I think you can rearrange the letters in "cola" to render "coal" which as we all know is emblematic of the fiery furnaces of hell. Satanic for sure! :32:


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## breddell (Apr 9, 2012)

After reading the conversations so far, I am feeling quite comfortable with my view of Masonry and my Faith. I know this is a tough subject, but hearing how others reconcile this topic is very interesting and educational. Thanks to all (BM, BB, coachn, TexAgg - I didn't understand what Free and Accepted wrote, but thanks for replying to my question) for confirming some of my thoughts. Hopefully this thread stays alive a bit longer so we can hear what others might say. Thanks again!


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## BryanMaloney (Apr 10, 2012)

While I am flattered to be addressed as "Brother" and referred to as a Freemason on this board, I should remind folks that I am still merely a petitioner who has only been repeating what I have been taught.


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## TexasAggieOfc1273 (Apr 10, 2012)

BryanMaloney said:


> While I am flattered to be addressed as "Brother" and referred to as a Freemason on this board, I should remind folks that I am still merely a petitioner who has only been repeating what I have been taught.


 
My apologies, sir, and the best of luck to you!


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## Blake Bowden (Apr 11, 2012)

BryanMaloney said:


> While I am flattered to be addressed as "Brother" and referred to as a Freemason on this board, I should remind folks that I am still merely a petitioner who has only been repeating what I have been taught.



When did you petition?


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## BryanMaloney (Apr 11, 2012)

I petitioned in February, and interviews have started this month.


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## promason (Apr 11, 2012)

Freemasonry is founded in the divine spiritual and moral roots of Christianity and its high spiritual base and Summit is the Divine Temple of Solomon,all Masonry is about divine elevation


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## promason (Apr 11, 2012)

I definitely believe that the one who enters in Masonry elevates his spiritual and moral level and becomes a better individual


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## BryanMaloney (Apr 11, 2012)

promason said:


> Freemasonry is founded in the divine spiritual and moral roots of Christianity and its high spiritual base and Summit is the Divine Temple of Solomon,all Masonry is about divine elevation


 
How might a Hindu Mason, for whom Solomon is just another foreign sage, interpret this? Just wondering.


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## promason (Apr 12, 2012)

Masonry roots are the Divine roots of Christianity,Masons are sons and daughters of Solomon and build day and night the Divine Temple of Solomon,God Bless Masonry,the best of humanity


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## BryanMaloney (Apr 12, 2012)

promason said:


> Masonry roots are the Divine roots of Christianity,Masons are sons and daughters of Solomon and build day and night the Divine Temple of Solomon


 
And how might a Hindu Freemason interpret such claims? Why are you refusing to answer this question?


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## CTx Mason (Apr 13, 2012)

It depends on who you ask. My "brand" of Freemasonry is different from many at my Blue Lodge, and I have found nothing in Freemasonry that was anti-Christian or offering an alternative path to salvation, contrary to some publications I have read. 
Nor have I found it to be a religion, even though our membership is populated with religious men. 
Freemasonry to me is about the free exchange of thought, fellowship with Good Men, and a haven where one may rest from the profane. ~meant in more ways than one.

I enjoy the direct link with History, not just through the Masons in my ancestry, but to those that I know to be masons and the great events they participated in, knowing that being a Freemason influenced their good actions.


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## promason (Apr 15, 2012)

I off course recognize and welcome Hindu brothers,all spiritualities can search and find common grounds and have a common ground,the notion of divine,including,concerning Hinduism and Bouddhism,through multiple avatars or manifestations,and together all spiritualities can build the temple


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## cog41 (Apr 25, 2012)

I like the "my" brand of freemasonry.

Interesting indeed.


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## Nate Riley (Apr 28, 2012)

BryanMaloney said:


> Actually, what I've been taught is that one must believe in "a Supreme Being", which is not the same thing as "God" in the way you or I would use it. Hindus can become Masons because their many gods are all reflections of a single "God principle", but this "God principle" is not necessarily a personal "God" as you or I would think of Him but can be a purely abstract conception of "Divine Being"--something not worshipped or personally known. Buddhism might or might not have a Supreme Being, depending on the type. In Mahayana Buddhism, the Buddha is seen as a "Supreme Reality". However, in other Buddhist traditions, all gods are false and there is no Supreme Being--the Buddha is merely a wise man for them.
> 
> Likewise, there are religions that Freemasonry cannot accomodate, such as certain Neopagan and Wiccan beliefs, which might have multiple "gods" but no Supreme Being.



While Masonry offers a good medium for a man to explore is own beliefs as they may related to a particular religion, sometimes too much is read into the belief in a Supreme Being issue (particularly by outsiders).  Although there are a number of reasons for Masonry to require a man to have a belief in God, there is one primary reason and it has to do with what a makes a man a Mason.

With that said, the steps that a lodge goes to determine a candidate's level of belief in God may be lacking.  As some amoung us have violated those same things that make a man a Mason, I would have to question the sincereity of their belief in deity.

These comments will likely only make sense to those who are Masons. To the OP, there is nothing in Freemasonry that is in violation with Christianity.  The challenge with both is that they are made of human beings which are naturally flawed. Therefore, any falacies with each are related to that fact.

Someone referred to GAOTU, an acronym that is often used by anti-Masonic groups to say that we are worshipping another "god". The acronym stands for Grand Architect of the Universe.  Some will say the Great or Supreme Architect of the Universe. Either way it is a descriptive name for God, like King of Kings, Prince of Peace or Jehovah Jireh (God our provider).  When you consider what an architect does in the building process, I really like it. It has actually been used by theologians, as well, like John Calvin.


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## cog41 (Apr 28, 2012)

Nice post bro. Nate.
This has certainly been an interesting thread.
I've been asked by Christian anti masons"Who is this GAOTU? SAOTU?". I ask them "who do you think is the Creator of the universe?" Their answer, "Jesus of course, He's the Son of God, He is God." I'm a Christian so I tell them that I agree with them. Col 1:15-19 is my beginning reference point and as I scroll the scriptures (Gen 1,Isa 40, Psa. 102, Prov.3 Heb. 1, etc.) with them I explain to them why I believe this Creator is an architect, designer, master builder, and who else could perform this work but a "Grand", Supreme" Master designer. I then ask them, "as a Christian, Isn't Jesus Grand, Supreme and Master?" Mostly I get a raised eyebrow and hear crickets.
 It's simple I know, but it's something.

Interesting thread indeed.


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