# Just Initiated and loving it so far



## aw3552

Last night, I was initiated as an Entered Apprentice and it was one of the most awesome things I have been through.  It made me just want to learn so much more and get to Fellow craft as soon as I can so I can be more involved in the Lodge.  I had posted in here before, and gratefully appreciate the advice I received from the Brethren who helped me.


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## SimonM

Congratulations and welcome!


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## Bloke

Congratulations !


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## Scoops

Congratulations, Brother!


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## Warrior1256

Congratulations Brother!


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## Ethan W

Congratulations Brother!

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## dfreybur

Welcome to the family once adopted Brother.


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## aw3552

Brethren,

Thanks for the kind words...now, time to get proficient.


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## MeCorby

Well done...!!! Wont be long for me...!!!


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## Derinique Kendrick

Congratulations! Stick with it, it gets even better!


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## aw3552

Thanks, again, for all the kind words.  I test on the first section at the next stated meeting.


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## aw3552

I'm not rushing to get to the "finish line", for lack of a better term.  I am just really wanting to serve and contribute.  Plus, I love learning and try to learn as much as I can from the Brothers around me.  My lodge is a fountain of information with a lot of Past Masters who are more than willing to teach.


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## Warrior1256

aw3552 said:


> My lodge is a fountain of information with a lot of Past Masters who are more than willing to teach.


Although I am 60 years old I did not join the lodge until Aug. 2014. I, too, was fortunate in that I joined a lodge with a lot of PMs willing to take me under their wing and teach me.


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## Tyme / NJRGL of Georgia

Welcome brother ..... ☺


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## Ripcord22A

What does njrgl mean?

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## Tyme / NJRGL of Georgia

jdmadsenCraterlake211 said:


> What does njrgl mean?
> 
> Sent from my LG-H811 using My Freemasonry Pro mobile app


New Jerusalem Regular Grand Lodge of Georgia


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## Ripcord22A

Oh....check ur inbox

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## mrpierce17

aw3552 said:


> Last night, I was initiated as an Entered Apprentice and it was one of the most awesome things I have been through.  It made me just want to learn so much more and get to Fellow craft as soon as I can so I can be more involved in the Lodge.  I had posted in here before, and gratefully appreciate the advice I received from the Brethren who helped me.


Congratulations travel liGht


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## Ripcord22A

Tyme / NJRGL of Georgia said:


> New Jerusalem Regular Grand Lodge of Georgia


Breathern please help me in explaining why this GL is bogus.  Ive been speaking with him in PMs but I cant seem to get it across why this GL is not a regular and recognized GL....thanks


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## mrpierce17

jdmadsenCraterlake211 said:


> Breathern please help me in explaining why this GL is bogus.  Ive been speaking with him in PMs but I cant seem to get it across why this GL is not a regular and recognized GL....thanks


http://www.thephylaxis.org/bogus/


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## aw3552

I went on Phylaxis and couldn't find it listed, but maybe it's just not up to date?


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## mrpierce17

aw3552 said:


> I went on Phylaxis and couldn't find it listed, but maybe it's just not up to date?


Probably not  the way bogus GL's are popping up daily it's pretty cut and dry in the US there are only two regular and recognized GL's here that would be GL of state and the PHA GL's of state anything else is clandestine


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## Ripcord22A

mrpierce17 said:


> Probably not  the way bogus GL's are popping up daily it's pretty cut and dry in the US there are only two regular and recognized GL's here that would be GL of state and the PHA GL's of state anything else is clandestine


That's what I told him.  Also I went to the NJRGL twitter and they were chartered, another red flag, by some weird GL from Mayland.  They also signed a pact with the Gran Logia d'italia, which If memory serves me correctly is clandestine as well, I thinik because they accept athiests.


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## aw3552

True, the site says last updated 2006 for GA, also.  There are 3 New Jerusalem GL's listed for other states.


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## Tyme / NJRGL of Georgia

jdmadsenCraterlake211 said:


> That's what I told him.  Also I went to the NJRGL twitter and they were chartered, another red flag, by some weird GL from Mayland.  They also signed a pact with the Gran Logia d'italia, which If memory serves me correctly is clandestine as well, I thinik because they accept athiests.



Doesn't every lodge have to have a charter to operate ?? ...


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## Tyme / NJRGL of Georgia

jdmadsenCraterlake211 said:


> Breathern please help me in explaining why this GL is bogus.  Ive been speaking with him in PMs but I cant seem to get it across why this GL is not a regular and recognized GL....thanks



Recognized by who ?? ... 
The internet or By God ?? ...


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## Ripcord22A

Tyme / NJRGL of Georgia said:


> Doesn't every lodge have to have a charter to operate ?? ...


yes they do but GLs don't charter other GLs, sometimes they do but it is a red flag.  Also once a GL is formed by subordinate lodges, those lodges turn in their charters to the Jurisdiction that they come from and the new GL issues a charter.


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## Tyme / NJRGL of Georgia

GRAND LODGE OF ITALY 

HOUSTON TEXAS USA  November 8, 2013

The Most Serene Grand Master of the Grand Lodge of Italy umsoi was in the organized meetings

the Regular Grand Lodge of Texas associated with the American Grand Lodges UMA (UNITED MASONIC ASSEMBLY).

On this occasion the Grand Master Gian Franco Pilloni signed two new treaties of recognition, with

REGULAR GRAND LODGE OF GEORGIA

NEW JERUSALEM AND THE REGULAR GRAND LODGE OF NEW JERSEY.

These two American Grand Lodges are in addition to other 5 in addition to the Supreme Councils which were signed Decrees of Bilateral Recognition.


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## Tyme / NJRGL of Georgia

http://www.granloggiaditalia.com/sito/


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## aw3552

The UGLE does not recognize that Grand Lodge: http://www.ugle.org.uk/about/foreign-grand-lodges.  Correct me if I am wrong, since I am new, but doesn't UGLE have to recognize the Lodge for it to be considered regular?


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## Tyme / NJRGL of Georgia

I typed it in on that site & it did come up ...


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## Tyme / NJRGL of Georgia

Grand Lodge of Greece Symbolic Grand Lodge of Hungary Grand Lodge of Iceland (Icelandic Order of Freemasons) Regular Grand Lodge of Italy Grand Lodge of Latvia Grand Lodge of Lithuania Grand Lodge of Luxembourg Grand Lodge of Macedonia Sovereign Grand...


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## aw3552

Regular Grand Lodge of Italy This one does, the one you mentioned does not.


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## mrpierce17

aw3552 said:


> The UGLE does not recognize that Grand Lodge: http://www.ugle.org.uk/about/foreign-grand-lodges.  Correct me if I am wrong, since I am new, but doesn't UGLE have to recognize the Lodge for it to be considered regular?


Not necessarily although you do have to trace your lineage back to the UGLE


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## mrpierce17

Tyme / NJRGL of Georgia said:


> GRAND LODGE OF ITALY
> 
> HOUSTON TEXAS USA  November 8, 2013
> 
> The Most Serene Grand Master of the Grand Lodge of Italy umsoi was in the organized meetings
> 
> the Regular Grand Lodge of Texas associated with the American Grand Lodges UMA (UNITED MASONIC ASSEMBLY).
> 
> On this occasion the Grand Master Gian Franco Pilloni signed two new treaties of recognition, with
> 
> REGULAR GRAND LODGE OF GEORGIA
> 
> NEW JERUSALEM AND THE REGULAR GRAND LODGE OF NEW JERSEY.
> 
> These two American Grand Lodges are in addition to other 5 in addition to the Supreme Councils which were signed Decrees of Bilateral Recognition.


The Regular GL of Texas is not a recognized GL as well haven the world Regular in your title is almost a dead giveaway in the US


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## dfreybur

Tyme / NJRGL of Georgia said:


> Doesn't every lodge have to have a charter to operate ?? ...



Yes but that's not how it works with GLs.  Only a very few GLs are directly sponsored by other GLs and that is never done in any territory where a regular GL already exists.  With grand lodges what matters is *recognition*.  If a jurisdiction points to a charter that's a very bad sign.  Jurisdictions that have plentiful recognition tend to note any charter as historical trivia or have it as a non-profit corporation in their state for tax purposes only.  I have no idea how many jurisdictions yours trades recognition with but you definitely can't just look up the local lodge while traveling and visit the way we can.

One of the two starting points for judging regularity is the United Grand Lodge of England.  If a GL from your state is listed (Grand Lodge of Georgia is listed) but yours is not you need to have a great deal of history as to why your jurisdiction would be valid in addition to the UGLE recognized one - http://www.ugle.org.uk/about/foreign-grand-lodges see the North America tab.

The other of the two starting points is the Conference of Grand Masters Prince Hall - http://www.conferenceofgrandmasterspha.org/gjlinks.asp  They list the Most Worshipful Prince Hall Affiliated Grand Lodge of Georgia not yours.

Put together this makes it clear you joined a clandestine lodge.  Chances are near zero you knew that at the time.  Chances are near zero most of the members of your lodge know that.  Only grand lodge officers necessarily know and by the time they find out they have far too much time invested to start their degree over.

Please understand that clandestine lodges tend to be forces for good in their communities.  After all they teach what we teach except for dealing with out of town Brothers.  Members of clandestine lodges tend to be wonderful guys.

If you don't care about heritage you don't have to care.  Our jurisdictions have 300 years of history from their modern founding point and several centuries farther back than that in operative forms.  But our mythical history extends back millennia to King Solomon's Temple.  Who knows how far back your jurisdiction's founding was but it was definitely separate from the continuous body.  And of course your jurisdiction's mythical history also extends back to KST.

Most of the members here would love for you to apply for healing http://mwphglga.org/ or http://www.glofga.org/


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## mrpierce17

Brother no one here is trying to bash you or be disrespectful we just hate to see a good man get duped into joining a clandestine organization


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## aw3552

mrpierce17 said:


> The Regular GL of Texas is not a recognized GL as well haven the world Regular in your title is almost a dead giveaway in the US


 My Lodge is in the Grand Lodge of Texas, and I thought that was a red flag.  The only ones I am aware of that are recognized in Texas are the Grand Lodge of Texas, AF&AM, and the Prince Hall Grand Lodge of Texas.


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## dfreybur

aw3552 said:


> The UGLE does not recognize that Grand Lodge: http://www.ugle.org.uk/about/foreign-grand-lodges.  Correct me if I am wrong, since I am new, but doesn't UGLE have to recognize the Lodge for it to be considered regular?



It's not a complete 100% correlation.  The entire family of PHA jurisdictions is regular but the UGLE only recognizes once local recognition is in place and then the PHA jurisdiction has to make the request - Oklahoma so far has not made the request.

There are some countries where it's not clear which jurisdiction to chose.  Both France and Italy have competing jurisdictions.

What we can say is if the jurisdiction is on that list their are absolutely regular.  But there are regular jurisdictions not (yet) on their list.


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## mrpierce17

aw3552 said:


> My Lodge is in the Grand Lodge of Texas, and I thought that was a red flag.  The only ones I am aware of that are recognized in Texas are the Grand Lodge of Texas, AF&AM, and the Prince Hall Grand Lodge of Texas.


That's correct but if there is a lodge that is styled Regular Grand Lodge of Texas it is not recognized I only know of one recognized GL that uses Regular in there title and that's The Regular Grand Lodge of the Republic of Libera AF&AM  witch is Prince Hall Affiliated


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## Tyme / NJRGL of Georgia

aw3552 said:


> My Lodge is in the Grand Lodge of Texas, and I thought that was a red flag.  The only ones I am aware of that are recognized in Texas are the Grand Lodge of Texas, AF&AM, and the Prince Hall Grand Lodge of Texas.



So there was no meeting on


aw3552 said:


> My Lodge is in the Grand Lodge of Texas, and I thought that was a red flag.  The only ones I am aware of that are recognized in Texas are the Grand Lodge of Texas, AF&AM, and the Prince Hall Grand Lodge of Texas.



So there was no meeting in 
HOUSTON TEXAS November 8, 2013


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## aw3552

dfreybur said:


> It's not a complete 100% correlation.  The entire family of PHA jurisdictions is regular but the UGLE only recognizes once local recognition is in place and then the PHA jurisdiction has to make the request - Oklahoma so far has not made the request.



About the only issue I could see with that is that many members of the military who are PHA have overseas lodges that fall under the Oklahoma PHA jurisdiction.


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## aw3552

Tyme / NJRGL of Georgia said:


> So there was no meeting on
> 
> 
> So there was no meeting in
> HOUSTON TEXAS November 8, 2013


I am not a PHA mason, my lodge is under the Grand Lodge of Texas, AF&AM.  We do recognize the Texas PHA Grand Lodge, but only the MWPHGL is recognized as regular, to the best of my knowledge.  Their information is here: http://www.mwphglotx.org


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## Tyme / NJRGL of Georgia

dfreybur said:


> It's not a complete 100% correlation.  The entire family of PHA jurisdictions is regular but the UGLE only recognizes once local recognition is in place and then the PHA jurisdiction has to make the request - Oklahoma so far has not made the request.
> 
> There are some countries where it's not clear which jurisdiction to chose.  Both France and Italy have competing jurisdictions.
> 
> What we can say is if the jurisdiction is on that list their are absolutely regular.  But there are regular jurisdictions not (yet) on their list.



So if there are regular jurisdictions not (yet) on their list .... 
Then they won't be "recognized" until the internet is updated ..... Correct ??? ... 
Therefore "recognition", relies on the internet .....


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## Tyme / NJRGL of Georgia

aw3552 said:


> The UGLE does not recognize that Grand Lodge: http://www.ugle.org.uk/about/foreign-grand-lodges.  Correct me if I am wrong, since I am new, but doesn't UGLE have to recognize the Lodge for it to be considered regular?





aw3552 said:


> The UGLE does not recognize that Grand Lodge: http://www.ugle.org.uk/about/foreign-grand-lodges.  Correct me if I am wrong, since I am new, but doesn't UGLE have to recognize the Lodge for it to be considered regular?



The UGLE recognizes ...
Grand Lodge of Greece Symbolic Grand Lodge of Hungary Grand Lodge of Iceland (Icelandic Order of Freemasons) Regular Grand Lodge of Italy Grand Lodge of Latvia Grand Lodge of Lithuania Grand Lodge of Luxembourg Grand Lodge of Macedonia Sovereign Grand...


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## Ripcord22A

Tyme / NJRGL of Georgia said:


> So if there are regular jurisdictions not (yet) on their list ....
> Then they won't be "recognized" until the internet is updated ..... Correct ??? ...
> Therefore "recognition", relies on the internet .....


No. The internet is just a tool for those of us that dont have the grand secretaries of ever jurosdiction on speed dial. The GL secretary must petition the UGLE for recognition.

Being in the US just know this....if your lodge is not the GL of ENTER STATES NAME HERE or the MOST WORSHIPFUL GL of ENTER STATE HERE then its a clandestine organisation and you cant just walk up to any lodge of GL of ENTER STATES NAME HERE or the MOST WORSHIPFUL GL of ENTER STATE HERE and attend their meetings the way we can.

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## Tyme / NJRGL of Georgia

I was first made a mason in my heart ....
"Recognition" had nothing to do with that ... 
I joined this site looking for brothers to connect with. 
Sorry i wasted your tyme & mine ...


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## Ripcord22A

Sir we were just trying tolet you know that you got duped

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## Bloke

Tyme / NJRGL of Georgia said:


> I was first made a mason in my heart ....
> "Recognition" had nothing to do with that ...
> I joined this site looking for brothers to connect with.
> Sorry i wasted your tyme & mine ...


Hi Bro. No ones trying to waste time, but if you ever try to visit regular lodges after having been initiated in an unrecognized lodge, you become acutely aware of this issue. In my state, we have 12,000 freemasons in just under 300 lodges. An 'irregular' mason visiting our  jurisdiction can visit about 2 lodges of about 80 people in a co-masonic lodge. That's the only notable irregular group i know of here


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## The Traveling Man

Tyme / NJRGL of Georgia said:


> I was first made a mason in my heart ....
> "Recognition" had nothing to do with that ...
> I joined this site looking for brothers to connect with.
> Sorry i wasted your tyme & mine ...



It is VERY hard to convince someone that they are not a Mason. I belong to most of the Masonic Facebook groups and trust me you are not alone. Regular Masons are seekers of Truth. Clandestine men are the exact opposite, they don't listen to facts, they don't listen to reason, they won't see anything outside of what their lodge teaches them. They get duped, waste their money and in the end miss out on the true Masonic experience. The truth is that none of the Lodges you listed are recognized by any regularly constituted Grand Lodges anywhere in the world. That is a fact. If you choose to overlook it then that is on you. But you have a group on real Masons here trying to whisper wise council and steer you in the right direction. I suggest you do as I'm sure you learned in your 1st degree and put your pride to the side, subdue your passions and Learn so that you may improve yourself in a Regularly Constituted Lodge of Masons.


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## dfreybur

Tyme / NJRGL of Georgia said:


> I was first made a mason in my heart ....



And the best way to act on that is to switch to a regular jurisdiction.

I understand.  You've just been told that your jurisdiction is bogus and you were given the ways to look that up.  You're frustrated at us for telling this to you out of loyalty to your own lodge.  Take your time looking up regularity and recognition.  Let it simmer like a slow cook kettle of beans.  Let it ferment like a good wine.  Understand that few or none of the members of your lodge have any idea they joined a counterfeit.  Then on your own schedule join us in our assemblies.


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## dfreybur

Tyme / NJRGL of Georgia said:


> So if there are regular jurisdictions not (yet) on their list ....
> Then they won't be "recognized" until the internet is updated ..... Correct ??? ...
> Therefore "recognition", relies on the internet .....



Not even slightly correct.  They won't be recognized because they are not regular, not ever.  Jurisdictions without valid lineage can never be regular and thus can never be recognized.

Shock to your system.  You went in with the best intentions and then you learn this.  You would rather think we are full of it than think your sponsor's sponsor's sponsor duped your sponsor's sponsor.  And thus down the chain so you ended up duped.  Not your fault but very shocking.  Look it up.  Take your time.


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## Ripcord22A

dfreybur said:


> Jurisdictions without valid lineage can never be regular


Now i have a question about that....i thought it was possible to be regular, in that their ritual and requirements for membership and landmarks ect are regular but they could never be recognized and would forever be clandestine?



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## Bloke

jdmadsenCraterlake211 said:


> Now i have a question about that....i thought it was possible to be regular, in that their ritual and requirements for membership and landmarks ect are regular but they could never be recognized and would forever be clandestine?
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my LG-H811 using My Freemasonry Pro mobile app




For sure. If a breakaway group of Masons started a competing GL in England in competition to UGLE its not going to be recognised. We've had such a situation here, but the new irregular GL died.


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## dfreybur

jdmadsenCraterlake211 said:


> Now i have a question about that....i thought it was possible to be regular, in that their ritual and requirements for membership and landmarks ect are regular but they could never be recognized and would forever be clandestine?



The best known example would be the PHA branch of our American family.  They all descend from African 459 of the Premier GL of England. They were declared regular and that gives hope to clandestine jurisdictions, right?  It doesn't work that way.  There's more to it than that.  1) They had no other choice because they were not accepted by the other branch of our American family in that era.  And 2) they remained loyal to the Premier GL.  That second point is crucial.

During the merger of the Antients and Moderns in 1812/13 all of the American lodges were dropped from the roll but up until that point African 459 had continued sufficient correspondence.  African 459 attempted to continue their correspondence.  They had demonstrated a lineage that was continuous even though they had had to hive other lodges to form their own jurisdiction(s).

The situation of other splinter clandestine jurisdictions does not have that lineage.

There are ways to become regular.  Healing agreements could be worked out.  The model might be the original merger of the Antients and Moderns.  But can you imagine a GM of a clandestine jurisdiction agreeing to take his degrees over again?


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## Ripcord22A

dfreybur said:


> The best known example would be the PHA branch of our American family.  They all descend from African 459 of the Premier GL of England. They were declared regular and that gives hope to clandestine jurisdictions, right?  It doesn't work that way.  There's more to it than that.  1) They had no other choice because they were not accepted by the other branch of our American family in that era.  And 2) they remained loyal to the Premier GL.  That second point is crucial.
> 
> During the merger of the Antients and Moderns in 1812/13 all of the American lodges were dropped from the roll but up until that point African 459 had continued sufficient correspondence.  African 459 attempted to continue their correspondence.  They had demonstrated a lineage that was continuous even though they had had to hive other lodges to form their own jurisdiction(s).
> 
> The situation of other splinter clandestine jurisdictions does not have that lineage.
> 
> There are ways to become regular.  Healing agreements could be worked out.  The model might be the original merger of the Antients and Moderns.  But can you imagine a GM of a clandestine jurisdiction agreeing to take his degrees over again?


No I understand the lineage part, my question is about being regular in workings and what not but being straight clandestine.  to me PHA never should have been considered clandestine, as you pointed out above, they trace lineage to African 459 that came from the Premier GL.


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## mrpierce17

jdmadsenCraterlake211 said:


> No I understand the lineage part, my question is about being regular in workings and what not but being straight clandestine.  to me PHA never should have been considered clandestine, as you pointed out above, they trace lineage to African 459 that came from the Premier GL.


I think you may be confusing clandestine and sporadic there is also irregular for example any of our southern stats GL of state & there PHA counterpart who don't have mutual recognition with each other are considered clandestine to one another even though they are both regular ( weird I know ) , sporadic lodges just formed out of nowhere with no lineage  , irregular lodges may have somethings in the way they work or the manner in witch they where formed that doesn't quit line up with regular Masonic protocol landmarks exc. any my submit to the jurisdiction of a legally   constituted GL and therefore become regular and recognized if I am wrong someone pleas help me out this sort of thing can become very confusing


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## Dontrell Stroman

I read where a brother stated that "PHA" has the oldest charter. Can someone verify ? Also, if this is true, then wouldn't that mean said GL of state would need to apply for recognition from PHA ?

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## mrpierce17

Travelling Man91 said:


> I read where a brother stated that "PHA" has the oldest charter. Can someone verify ? Also, if this is true, then wouldn't that mean said GL of state would need to apply for recognition from PHA ?
> 
> Sent from my 831C using My Freemasonry Pro mobile app


That is correct we have the oldest original charter on American soil there are lodges that where chartered before African Lodge but due to unexpected circumstances lost , fires exc. they where issued copies PHA still holds there original charter it is kept under lock and key in the safety deposit box it is put on display every now and then when African Lodge number 459 reopens the Phylaxis Society had it on display at a event a while back


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## Ripcord22A

So its not the oldest in terms of when it was issued just oldest original

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## mrpierce17

jdmadsenCraterlake211 said:


> So its not the oldest in terms of when it was issued just oldest original
> 
> Sent from my LG-H811 using My Freemasonry Pro mobile app


Correct


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## Dontrell Stroman

That explains it

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## dfreybur

jdmadsenCraterlake211 said:


> No I understand the lineage part, my question is about being regular in workings and what not but being straight clandestine.



Lineage is a part of regularity.

As to regular for the rest of the list of criteria, I'm sure plenty of most clandestine jurisdictions have everything else.  I regularly point out that clandestine brothers are often forces for good in their neighborhood.

Edit - I added the word "most".  Some clandestine jurisdictions are pretty out there but most are great guys without the lineage.


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## pipoyviste

Me corby what is all about on your profile photo?


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