# cub scouts



## LRG (May 1, 2009)

At Grand Lodge this past, we voted for the unite between the cub scouts-boy scouts and the lodge. It was a close vote but failed. Lots of children have no idea what DeMolay is or what it stands for and with a great argument concerning the cub scout to boy scout to DeMolay and then to a Master Mason could have been agreat idea.
Just like DeMolay the population has no idea about the FreeMason and with the introduction from a cub scout or boy scout to DeMolay, This road when be a great introduction for future petitions.


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## Blake Bowden (May 2, 2009)

I agree 100%.


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## LRG (May 2, 2009)

Maybe at the next GL, someone can reintroduce this belief once again.


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## owls84 (May 5, 2009)

I disagree. As soon as we allow Boy Scouts I believe the DeMolay will be gone. I think that we need to focus more on getting the public educated with Masonry and the DeMolay rather than allowing a body that teaches good things but we have no control on what they teach. I keep hearing people saying lets let the boy scouts in, I say no. I say lets focus and get the animal instinct on pitching DeMolay to the schools just as Boys Scouts do. Just MHO.


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## TCShelton (May 5, 2009)

owls84 said:


> I disagree. As soon as we allow Boy Scouts I believe the DeMolay will be gone. I think that we need to focus more on getting the public educated with Masonry and the DeMolay rather than allowing a body that teaches good things but we have no control on what they teach. I keep hearing people saying lets let the boy scouts in, I say no. I say lets focus and get the animal instinct on pitching DeMolay to the schools just as Boys Scouts do. Just MHO.



+1.


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## Blake Bowden (May 5, 2009)

That's a great viewpoint if you have a nearby DeMolay Chapter, however there are many Lodges out there who are nowhere near one but DO have a local Boy Scout troop. I support having the Scouts 100%. By allowing them access to the Lodge it may provide the seeds to start new Chapters. I don't see the Scouts and DeMolay as competition.


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## RJS (May 5, 2009)

That is a good point.  I know where I grew up there was only Boy Scouts.


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## owls84 (May 5, 2009)

Well that is good that you point that out but why not start a demolay chapter if it really concerns us? 

Note: I was a Boy Scout.


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## RJS (May 5, 2009)

How are Demolay Chapters started?


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## Blake Bowden (May 5, 2009)

We're struggling just to keep the doors open and chairs filled much less taking on a huge responsibility of starting a new DeMolay Chapter. What are the downsides for allowing the Scouts?


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## LRG (May 5, 2009)

What are the ages for boyscouts versus the ages for DeMolay?


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## Blake Bowden (May 6, 2009)

"have completed the fifth grade and are at least 10, or who are 11, but not yet 18 years old"
http://www.scouting.org/BoyScouts/Youth.aspx

"be between the ages of 13 and 21"
http://www.albertpikedemolay.org/

Boy Scouts->DeMolay->Masons...I like that formula..hah


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## JTM (May 6, 2009)

boyscouts have things to do all the way up to eagle scout, which takes more than just 2 years 

boy scouts and demolay would be in competition, i would imagine.


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## TCShelton (May 6, 2009)

JTM said:


> boy scouts and demolay would be in competition, i would imagine.



Yeah, sounds about right.


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## Blake Bowden (May 6, 2009)

Maybe, but why not leave it up to the individual Lodges? Those who are close or already have a DeMolay could simply deny the scouts, while others who do not can open the doors.


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## TCShelton (May 6, 2009)

I don't like it, but I don't think it should be prohibitted.  Just another one of those things that shouldn't matter.


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## LRG (May 6, 2009)

blake said:


> Maybe, but why not leave it up to the individual Lodges? Those who are close or already have a DeMolay could simply deny the scouts, while others who do not can open the doors.


Great idea.
The exposure between the lodge and children as they grow up would be A+.


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## owls84 (May 6, 2009)

I guess my stance is it is probably just as easy to get the DeMolay in a Lodge as it is for a Boy Scout troop. Why would you not want to allow an orginization that we can control? One that we know will teach Masonic views. I just think that we can do so much more for the DeMolay but we want to take the easy way and let someone else do the work and allow the Boy Scouts in because they are established. I think our question should be, how do we get the DeMolay as successful as the Boy Scouts?


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## LRG (May 6, 2009)

owls84 said:


> I guess my stance is it is probably just as easy to get the DeMolay in a Lodge as it is for a Boy Scout troop. Why would you not want to allow an orginization that we can control? One that we know will teach Masonic views. I just think that we can do so much more for the DeMolay but we want to take the easy way and let someone else do the work and allow the Boy Scouts in because they are established. I think our question should be, how do we get the DeMolay as successful as the Boy Scouts?


 Wow, that hit a spot.


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## Blake Bowden (May 7, 2009)

owls84 said:


> I guess my stance is it is probably just as easy to get the DeMolay in a Lodge as it is for a Boy Scout troop.



Like it or not, there are far more Boy Scout Troops than DeMolay Chapters. Where will Lodges find Brothers to start a Chapter much less keep it going? This may not be a problem if you have a active lodge with many members. If that's the case, chances are you already have a DeMolay Chapter 




owls84 said:


> Why would you not want to allow an orginization that we can control? One that we know will teach Masonic views.



Here's the Scout Motto:

"On my honor I will do my best
To do my duty to God and my country
and to obey the Scout Law;
To help other people at all times;
To keep myself physically strong,
mentally awake, and morally straight."

While the Scouts aren't a Masonic organization, I would be more than happy to have them meet at our Lodge. They share similar Morals and upright conduct.



owls84 said:


> I just think that we can do so much more for the DeMolay but we want to take the easy way and let someone else do the work and allow the Boy Scouts in because they are established



Don't get me wrong, our priority should be the DeMolay over the Scouts, however I would prefer the Lodge to decide whether to allow them access to the Lodge facilities, not Waco. I don't understand why my Brothers feel it would be a competition. The DeMolay is a Masonic organization and will always have close ties to the Lodge. When it comes to Boy Scouts, I would like for them to have an opportunity to use our facilities. Since many of our local Boy Scouts meet at church, could the same argument be applied? Are they competition for the churches youth organizations? Of course not. It's one thing to give a Den Master a set of keys to use a facility, it's a whole new ballgame when you want a Lodge to start a new DeMolay Chapter! What better way to snag the interest of a youth than to allow them access to the Lodge? Many of you scoff at this, but visit a rural Lodge and listen to their Treasurers report or see the empty chairs and protem'd stations. Goto the Grand Lodge website and view the hundreds of rural Lodges there are. They are hurting and hurting BAD. To deny those Lodges a wonderful opportunity to support the community and organizations like the scouts would be a shame. Again, I support the Boys Scouts USE of Lodge facilities if they so desire.


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## owls84 (May 7, 2009)

I really wish we could have a DeMolay weigh in on this. I will just have to disagree with you on this topic. I just feel as soon as Lodges allow Boy Scouts in we can kiss the DeMolay bye. Of coarse they would compete. The reason Church groups don't compete is their parents take them to Church with them on Sundays, or what ever days they meet. It is convieniece for the families. You mean to tell me that if you had a DeMolay Chapter and a Boy Scouts Troop you wouldn't choose one or the other? Of Coarse you would they conflict with activities too much. I know that you don't have a choice at this point but a lot of area do have both. I just think that if there are enough kids to have a Boy Scout Troop then why not start asking if they would be intrested in a DeMolay Chapter. Start heading it up. Sure it will be hard work but if we are that dedicated I think we could accomplish having a DeMolay Chapter installed. If you are saying that membership is down in the Lodge and you can't get this to happen, I feel the least of our worries is with the kids. We need to find out how to get Memebers we have active. We are combining two issues that we really shouldn't. Again I will just have to disagree on this on Brother.


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## Blake Bowden (May 7, 2009)

owls84 said:


> You mean to tell me that if you had a DeMolay Chapter and a Boy Scouts Troop you wouldn't choose one or the other?



This isn't about the Boy Scouts and DeMolay co-existing, at least from my perspective. I just want the choice left to the Lodge. With your argument, a Lodge cannot open it's doors to a wonderful organization because of DeMolay, which in our case is over 75 miles away. While things may work out well in the larger cities, it is a much larger hurdle for us rural folks.




owls84 said:


> I just think that if there are enough kids to have a Boy Scout Troop then why not start asking if they would be intrested in a DeMolay Chapter.



That's a wonderful idea but you need Brothers who can take on that responsibility. In many small Lodges, there may be 60-70 members, but 5  do most of the work. As much as I would love to have a local DeMolay Chapter, it would be almost impossible to find the people to get one started. Think about this, if we did allow scouts use of the facility, not only could we leave a good impression of Masonry on them but their Fathers. 




owls84 said:


> If you are saying that membership is down in the Lodge and you can't get this to happen, I feel the least of our worries is with the kids.



That is absolutely true, however give my Lodge the power to invite the Scouts in. Just because one thing works well in a certain area, doesn't mean it will work in another. By denying the Scouts use of our facilities is another way we Masons can continue the generation gap we see today.




owls84 said:


> . Again I will just have to disagree on this on Brother.



I enjoy all viewpoints whether I agree with them or not. Without debates things would get pretty bland..


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## RJS (May 7, 2009)

Is DeMolay like a Masonic boyscout?


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## LRG (May 7, 2009)

I have 3 boys and 2 girls, Wharton County does not have DeMolay-they use to- Furthermore i would have to wait until my boys reach the age of 13, before i would even think about the process of starting a chapter-if i even could-.
My oldest son is 8 and is active w/cub scouts, he will then become a boyscout@ 10yrs, with that being said the cub scouts are always switching locations for meet. 
In other words if no Demolay in area than maybe each lodge should have the option to allow cub/boy scouts within the lodge.


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## LRG (May 7, 2009)

RJS said:


> Is DeMolay like a Masonic boyscout?


 I have no idea never heard about DeMolay untill a year ago.


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## Blake Bowden (May 8, 2009)

LRG said:


> In other words if no Demolay in area than maybe each lodge should have the option to allow cub/boy scouts within the lodge.




Exactly. We have to face reality here. We can wish for DeMolay Chapters all we want, but unless we have the manpower, it ain't happening. I look at DeMolay as a relative to Masonry, while the Scouts are merely a guest at the house.


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## brwdmason (May 9, 2009)

Brethren,

I am new to this forum.  I can tell you that our Pack and Troop is chartered by our Lodge.  The Boy Scouts meet at the lodge.  Not during our stated meetings obviously.  I am an active leader in the Cub Scout pack.  My son is 9.  I do not know of a Demolay Chapter here.  I can tell you that if you look at the Cub/Boy scouts, there are many similarities.  You must believe in a God or you cannot join.  Take a look at the cub Scout hand shake.


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## Blake Bowden (May 10, 2009)

brwdmason said:


> Brethren,
> 
> I am new to this forum.  I can tell you that our Pack and Troop is chartered by our Lodge.  The Boy Scouts meet at the lodge.  Not during our stated meetings obviously.  I am an active leader in the Cub Scout pack.  My son is 9.  I do not know of a Demolay Chapter here.  I can tell you that if you look at the Cub/Boy scouts, there are many similarities.  You must believe in a God or you cannot join.  Take a look at the cub Scout hand shake.



Great insight Brother.


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## owls84 (May 11, 2009)

Honestly - Slowly coming around to the idea. Still would love to get some DeMolay's opinion. I asked some from the forum to comment.


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## Chance.Chapman (May 31, 2009)

Some of the brethern said they wanted the "DeMolay opinion" on this subject. I hope I can help. I'm a Past State Master Councilor of Texas DeMolay, which is like Grand Master of the Grand Lodge for those who aren't familiar with DeMolay. I'm also a Master Mason, York Rite Mason, and Scottish Rite Mason. 3 out of 5 of my other State Officers were also Master Masons during my term (2007-2008). the last 9 State Master Councilors of Texas have also become Master Masons, and many more before them have too. I'm only 19 years old. I'm still an "Active DeMolay".

Just an update to some info, the age was changed from 13 to 12 almost a decade ago. I joined 3 days after I turned 12.

I'm strongly opposed to opening the Lodge doors to a non-masonic youth group. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with Boy Scouts. I think its a great organization. A good friend of mine served as SMC of OK the same year as me, and he was an Eagle Scout. Its a GREAT organization. But, DeMolay and Masonry are tied together in ways that Boy Scouts could never be. It prepares the youth to become Masons. If you can, go to a DeMolay Chapter and watch the degrees. If there isn't one close to you, you can always attend the State Conclave in July every year and see the best of the best. There is also Competition in Arlington every year where Chapters and boys all of the US come to compete in. If you witness the degrees, you can see why DeMolay is such a great organization for the Lodges to support. Also, a Chapter might also be willing to travel to your lodge and do the degrees for you.

For those of who say tat there aren't enough guys in your area to have a Chapter, that's fine. The boys can still get in, and they can start a "DeMolay Club" and still enjoy the benefits. This also helps with the "problem" that some Lodges don't have enough help from its members to support a Chapter. It only takes about 2 or 3 dedicated men to serve as Advisors. If your Lodge has 70 members, and only 5 are active, maybe two of the 65 inactive ones would serve as Advisors and perhaps get back into being active in the Lodge. Just a thought.

DeMolay and Scouts would compete. They already do. Its just like how York Rite, Scottish Rite, Grotto, Shrine, OES, and all the other bodies compete. That's just the nature of the two organizations.

As for having kids "too young", DeMolay has a younger version called Squires of the Round Table. It is for 10 to 12 year olds.

There is also a group of DeMolay called Priory. IT is for 16-21 year old DeMolays, and it is closely related to the Commandery of the York Rite. There are always plenty of options for DeMolays. If you have a small group of 3 guys or a large group of 30 guys, DeMolay can exist in your area if you choose to let it and help it.

I'm not putting down Boy Scouts or saying its a bad organization. I couldn't disagree with that line of thought more. I just firmly believe that DeMolay is the answer in bringing in a younger generation. If you want ANY information, please feel free to message me or visit www.demolay.org and www.texasdemolay.org. I hope this sheads some light on to the subject.


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## LRG (Jun 1, 2009)

Hey thats great and thanks for your knowledge


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## Bro. Kurt P.M. (Jun 1, 2009)

That is very valuable information brother ... Thank you for sharing


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## Chance.Chapman (Jun 1, 2009)

I don't want anyone to be offended by anything I said. I hope no one feels otherwise. Just trying to say that even if you have 1 man who can be an Advisor and 2 boys, DeMolay can exist in some form. I hope this has help some Brethern and possibly opened the door for some new DeMolays and possibly future Master Masons.


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## RJS (Jun 1, 2009)

Thank you for sharing!


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## Blake Bowden (Sep 9, 2009)

Pooh! We were recently approached by an individual who asked if the Lodge was interested in supporting a new Boy Scout Troop. I wish this was changed at GL.  I want my Lodge to have the ability to sponsor a little league team (Just as the elks, oddfellows, rotary and lions), cub/boy scout troops, etc. It would have such an impact and put us front and center of the community, but instead we're limited to doing our own little thing...


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## Anson575 (Sep 9, 2009)

blake said:


> I want my Lodge to have the ability to sponsor a little league team (Just as the elks, oddfellows, rotary and lions), cub/boy scout troops, etc. It would have such an impact and put us front and center of the community, but instead we're limited to doing our own little thing...



As the Worshipful Master of a small town Lodge I cannot stress this enough. Our membership is dwindling and we are busting our humps to keep our Lodge in the public eye. The more we can do to get out there and help out our community the better.


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## TCShelton (Sep 9, 2009)

Anson, I would like to see some of you Brothers from the rural lodges come and discuss your issues like this in some urban lodges, where we have a lot of Grand Lodge voters.  As it stands, there is a big disconnect between us and y'all, where there shouldn't be one.  I'd be glad to vote for something like that which I previously didn't see a point in, knowing the scope and intentions behind it that some other lodges may have.


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## owls84 (Sep 9, 2009)

TCShelton said:


> Anson, I would like to see some of you Brothers from the rural lodges come and discuss your issues like this in some urban lodges, where we have a lot of Grand Lodge voters.  As it stands, there is a big disconnect between us and y'all, where there shouldn't be one.  I'd be glad to vote for something like that which I previously didn't see a point in, knowing the scope and intentions behind it that some other lodges may have.



Totally +1 here.


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## nick1368 (Sep 9, 2009)

I can see both sides.  I have to agree with Bro Chance that we would see a better return from an investment in DeMolay than we would in Boy Scouts.  But with that said I strongly feel we need to be more visible in our communities supporting "youth" activities.  So what do we do?  I am not sure there is a "sure" answer to this problem as long as GL ties our hands in saying what organizations we can and can't support.  I think "members" of GL need to realize that what is good for  Holland Lodge may in turn hurt if not kill Yellow Pine Lodge.


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## owls84 (Sep 9, 2009)

nick1368 said:


> I can see both sides.  I have to agree with Bro Chance that we would see a better return from an investment in DeMolay than we would in Boy Scouts.  But with that said I strongly feel we need to be more visible in our communities supporting "youth" activities.  So what do we do?  I am not sure there is a "sure" answer to this problem as long as GL ties our hands in saying what organizations we can and can't support.  I think "members" of GL need to realize that what is good for  Holland Lodge may in turn hurt if not kill Yellow Pine Lodge.



This is exactly how I feel on this one.


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## Blake Bowden (Sep 9, 2009)

nick1368 said:


> I can see both sides.  I have to agree with Bro Chance that we would see a better return from an investment in DeMolay than we would in Boy Scouts.



Why not leave it up to the individual Lodges? In Gonzales, theres not a snowballs chance in hell that we'll have a DeMolay anytime soon. It just ain't gonna happen. I'm all for DeMolay, but my BLUE LODGE and it's future takes priority. By supporting our local Boy/Cub Scouts we could bring recognition to our Lodge and a renewed interest in Freemasonry.

I'll use Gonzales as an example. If you're just an average guy, what would induce you to join our Lodge? If you didn't know much about Masonry or what we're all about, chances are you could care less about petitioning. Say you went to a little league game with your boy and saw sponsors such as the Lions Club, Rotary, Odd Fellows, etc. Would you be more attracted to those organizations which are ACTIVE in your community? Probably so.


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## nick1368 (Sep 9, 2009)

I understand where you are coming from Blake, that is why I said...



nick1368 said:


> But with that said I strongly feel we need to be more visible in our communities supporting "youth" activities.  So what do we do?  I am not sure there is a "sure" answer to this problem as long as GL ties our hands in saying what organizations we can and can't support.  I think "members" of GL need to realize that what is good for  Holland Lodge may in turn hurt if not kill Yellow Pine Lodge.



We not only need to be visible in our communities but we need to be contiributing to them as well. There is nothing we can do about it until we become "members".  And I am talking about every thing from giving local lodges some freedoms in sponsoring clubs to specialty plates. Until the "old guard" sees that they as "members" of GL are killing Texas Masonary by sitting on their hands we will have to sit on the side line.   

Please understand that I am NOT saying all "members" of GL are the same and against everything we younger guys think.  I know there are some very competent PM on here and I enjoy their insight to the workings of Masonary as I prepare for my year in the East.


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## rhitland (Sep 9, 2009)

Blake your point of letting the Lodge have the right to govern itself it well taken but I think with the invention of the Grand Lodge that power was given up and a small lodge like Gonzales suffers at the hands of the majority, for one like Brother Tom said no one knows the issue or the reasoning to fix it and second all the voting members of GL see is more problems like the Masonic home and school, I know that seems crazy to aqaute the two but I promise that had alot to do with it failing and in the ned if something happened we would be responsible. I am fortunate and have a great DeMolay chapter the Malvern H Marks chapter and all I see is some boys becoming men and I would be happy to have any of them in my lodge. A brother that wants to get his Lodge going again would be wise to start there seems like. Starting a DeMolay chapter would be a great way to get in the public eye! Brother Chance what are the rules on asking someone to join DeMolay is it like Masonry or can we "recruit"?


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## LRG (Sep 9, 2009)

nick1368 said:


> I can see both sides. I have to agree with Bro Chance that we would see a better return from an investment in DeMolay than we would in Boy Scouts. But with that said I strongly feel we need to be more visible in our communities supporting "youth" activities. So what do we do? I am not sure there is a "sure" answer to this problem as long as GL ties our hands in saying what organizations we can and can't support. I think "members" of GL need to realize that what is good for Holland Lodge may in turn hurt if not kill Yellow Pine Lodge.


 
Well put B/Nick


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## Anson575 (Sep 10, 2009)

TCShelton said:


> Anson, I would like to see some of you Brothers from the rural lodges come and discuss your issues like this in some urban lodges, where we have a lot of Grand Lodge voters.  As it stands, there is a big disconnect between us and y'all, where there shouldn't be one.  I'd be glad to vote for something like that which I previously didn't see a point in, knowing the scope and intentions behind it that some other lodges may have.



We have a pretty good relationship with members of the larger Lodges in Abilene (about 30 miles south) but they aren't having the membership issues that we have and so we have trouble communicating the troubles and how we think we should approach them.


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## Anson575 (Sep 10, 2009)

nick1368 said:


> Until the "old guard" sees that they as "members" of GL are killing Texas Masonary by sitting on their hands we will have to sit on the side line.



Change doesn't come easy to be sure.


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## Blake Bowden (Sep 13, 2009)

Sir Robert Baden-Powell (1857-1941), returning from the Boer War which had lasted from 1999 to 1902, was suddenly a public figure. During this war he became famous in Britain for the defence of Mafeking. This town, under his command, had withstood a siege of 215 days, in spite of famine and sickness in his ranks. Baden-Powell maintained the defence successfully and earned the rank of Major-General. On his return to England he felt most strongly that the courage and skill of the scouts in the army should not be lost. These scouts had made such a significant contribution to the successful outcome of the war, that their skills should he passed on. Simultaneously he was convinced that the young people in Britain were not receiving enough physical exercise and experience in the outdoor life. He knew that by teaching scouting skills to young people -who would become the leaders of the future -he would be meeting two objectives.

In 1907 he started the Boy Scout movement in Great Britain by working with just twenty boys. To keep track of the many useful facts he was teaching the boys he wrote notes. These developed into a book that was first published in 1908 as the Boy Scout Handbook. In the years that followed, many millions of copies were sold and avidly absorbed by young boys throughout the world. From the sale of this book came the need for leaders and the huge organization which scouting is today. The scouting world is extensive by anyone's standards because scouting is active in over 150 countries and is recognised by the World Bureau in 117 countries with more being recognised each year.

In the 1990s there were more than 23 million scouts and adult leaders belonging to Boy Scout units in countries belonging to the Boy Scout World Conference. While the numbers have dropped in recent years the membership has been broadened to include girls, younger boys and female leaders in all areas. The range of ages in the movement at the present day are Keas from 6-7 years, Cubs from 8-10 years, Scouts from 11-14 years, Venturers from years and Rovers from 18-26 years old. After this leaders may take out warrants from the age of 18 with apparently no age limit but after many years some leaders join (with ex Guide Leaders) the Baden-Powell Guild for the rest of their lives.

Adult leaders of the organization have, over the years, taken their training in various camp grounds throughout the world but the most famous is Gilwell Park in the south of England. This is the International Training Camp. All leaders who have completed the training courses wear with pride the Gilwell Scarf and woodbeads, all over the world.

With the large number of men in the scouting movement and many common interests it was fairly natural that scouter's lives would become interwoven in different ways. Many attended the same churches and had similar hobbies -most loved the outdoors. Due to the principles inculcated in scouting, which in many ways parallel those in Masonry, many scouters gravitated towards the masonic order and found they attended lodges with other scouters. The common interest in Scouting gave them strong bonds to other scouters within the Craft.

The parallels are easily found and in fact nothing can be found in the Scout Law and Promise that is not found in Masonry. The first important thing is that each scout must make a promise to abide by certain guiding principles and subscribe to the Scout Law in the same way a mason does in his obligation, promising to practise masonic precepts. The scout and mason must both believe in God and cannot be accepted in either organization if they are atheists. Like Masonry, the Scout Movement does not involve itself in any form of political activity.

A meeting of scouters was held at scout headquarters, 19 Elizabeth St., Melbourne on 6th June 1929 for the purpose of forming a masonic lodge. This meeting was chaired by the Chief Commissioner, Arch Hoadley. The idea for such a venture had been a regular topic for discussion between Lord Somers, then Grand Master, Chief Scout and Governor of Victoria, and W.D. Kennedy, C.A. Hoadley and W.E Waters during the years 1927-30 when Lord Somers was able to devote considerable time to his scouting interests and outdoor activities. The ten scouting brethren at the meeting agreed to hold meetings on the 4th Monday of each month and to approach United Service Lodge No. 330 to sponsor a petition to Grand Lodge seeking permission to form a new, and as yet unnamed lodge.

M.W. Bro. His Excellency Lt.-Col. the Right Hon. Arthur Herbert Tennyson, Baron Somers, K.C.M.G., D. S. O., M.C., Governor and Chief Scout of Victoria, and Most Worshipful Grand Master of the day was appointed to be the first Master of the new lodge. W. Bro. Charles Archibald Hoadley was appointed as Deputy Master, for it was realised that Lord Somers would have difficulty in regularly attending meetings. Bro. George Homan Thomas was appointed as S.W. and Bro. William Duncan Kennedy as J. W.

In Britain, and many other countries, when a masonic lodge exceeds fifty members, the members begin to discuss whether to start another lodge and split from the mother lodge. Several lodges were in this condition when the Third World Jamboree was held at Arrowe Park in August 1929. During this gathering, a meeting of over one hundred masonic scouters discussed the possible formation of scout lodges with members being drawn exclusively from the scout movement. In this way they could form a double bond of fraternity. These 100 men with this aim left the Jamboree for homes throughout the world. The leader of the Australian Jamboree contingent, C.A. Hoadley, in conjunction with W.D. Kennedy were charged to mention the proposed new lodge to the newly created Baron Baden-Powell of Gilwell, and to seek his consent to the use of his name for this new Scout lodge. He readily consented.

It is worthy of note that the naming of the lodge after a living person was not only unusual, but naming it after a man who himself was not a freemason, was a break with tradition. Lord Baden-Powell had often openly expressed his admiration for our fraternity, and while in Melbourne in 1931 he suitably inscribed the flyleaf of their Volume of the Sacred Law, 'With best wishes for the success of the Lodge in its good work. Baden-Powell of Gilwell. 12 May 1931.' (The following issue noted that Baden-Powell had presented this VSL to the lodge.) This most treasured possession is still in regular use. On 22nd August, 1930 the United Grand Lodge of Victoria granted a Charter to form a new lodge to be named Baden-Powell Lodge No. 498. Approval was also received for the proposed Foundation Members' jewel. Apart from the masonic content and traditional scouting green, a yellow diagonal arrow across the jewel was designed to perpetuate the Arrowe Park Jamboree discussions relating to the naming of the lodge. It is noted that this arrow is also part of the design of the Baden-Powell New Zealand lodge.

The first lodge recorded as a scout lodge therefore was Baden-Powell Lodge No. 488, United Grand Lodge of Victoria, Australia. The Australian brethren were single minded in doing what they said and wasted absolutely no time and the lodge was consecrated on 29th September, 1930, just one year later. The foundation Master for this lodge was Lord Somers, Governor of the State of Victoria.

The names of scouting lodges are interesting in their direct relationship to scouting. Some of these names are: Quest, Venturer, Gauntlet, Venture, Pathfinder, Pinewood, Red Scarf, Arrowhead, Kudu (the African Deer), Compass, and Woodsmoke.

Although it has often been argued that Lord Baden-Powell was a mason, there is no evidence of this and Dame Olive Baden-Powell denied it categorically. The confusion may have arisen because his younger brother, Major P. Baden-Powell, was indeed a member of the Craft and Bro. the Hon. David Michael Baden-Powell, (grandson of the founder), is at present Junior Warden of Baden-Powell Lodge No. 488, Victoria. There have, however, been other masons who were also heavily involved in scouting and some of these were: M.W. Bro. H.R.H. the Duke of Kent, Grand Master of the United Grand Lodge of England and President of the Boy Scout Movement in 1975; V.W. Bro. Archbishop Lord Fisher; Bro. Rudyard Kipling; M.W. Bro. Edward, Prince of Wales -Chief Scout in 1911; M.W. Bro. The Duke of Kent, GM, UGLE 19391942, Commodore of the Sea Scouts 1929-1942; V.W. Bro. the Very Rev. Israel Brodie, Chief Rabbi, who was a member of the Boy Scouts Council; and Lord Somers, Governor of Victoria and foundation Master of Baden-Powell Lodge No. 488, who became Chief Scout in 1941 upon Lord Baden-Powell's death.

Scout lodges differ little from regular lodges except the name and the background of the members. In addition, the members usually have one meeting each year when they attend in scout uniform and wear masonic regalia over their uniform. At the festive board of scout lodges it is fairly common to add to the list of toasts, 'Lord Robert Baden-Powell of Gilwell. ' These lodges often have meetings where Scouters and or Rovers may be asked to attend for presentations. When this happens, and the lodge has been called off for this purpose, the young men see the leaders they admire in a fraternal setting. It is through this first contact with masonry and seeing the principles of masonry in operation that induces many young men to aspire to membership in the Craft.

This is a wonderful opportunity for the Craft to expand its teachings. Indeed in Auckland we also have a short commemoration to Baden-Powell which we adopted from Queensland and through our regular contacts with the Australian lodges we even place the scarves of both countries together on the pavement with the 'lemon squeezer' on the centre, all surrounded by the pennants of the four patrols at Baden-Powell's first camp at Brownsea Island in 1907, to represent the going home of our founder.


Bro. Bainbridge
Baden-Powell Lodge #38
Auckland, NZ


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