# Do you believe in a supreme being?



## Bro.doyleUK

When I first went to my lodge for my "chat" about becoming a mason I was asked all the usual questions about why I wanted to join and of course I answered the best I could giving only honest answers of course.
Now, I hope no one here gets offended or annoyed by this but I do not consider myself to very religious at all. I am very spiritual though so if I had to choose one id say I'm a spiritualist or maybe even a bit pagan ( I know nothing about paganism  other than I believe I am part of the earth and we should care for it).

So when the question came " do you believe in a supreme being or something higher than ourselves?"
I said yes, and when asked what it was I said that I believed that everything in the universe is energy including consciousness and that I believed "God" is both. 
Now I received a few funny/ surprised looks at this point mixed with a few impressed facial expressions.

My question is did any body else give an unusual answer to this question seeing as we all come from a wide variety of religious backgrounds?


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## Companion Joe

If you can't honestly and sincerely answer yes to that question, then you have come to the wrong shop. Masonry is not a religion and does not ask to which religion you subscribe, but it does ask you to seriously declare upon your honor that you believe in a supreme being to whom all men are ultimately accountable.


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## Bro.doyleUK

My answer was yes


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## Radical540

I got asked if I believe in a Supreme being, and I said "yes".  And there was no further questioning on the topic.


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## BroBook

I am glad you phased this thread topic like you did, to answer the thread,yes 
but has anyone ever considered that "a" is singular and therefore the question is better understood as a statement along the lines of " you do know that somewhere there is an ultimate authority?


Bro Book
M.W.U.G.L. Of Fl: P.H.A.
Excelsior # 43
At pensacola


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## Morris

I was never asked a follow up question and was actually told to answer yes or no


Jeff


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## admarcus1

JMorris said:


> I was never asked a follow up question and was actually told to answer yes or no
> 
> 
> Jeff


That is as it should be. 


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## Glen Cook

Companion Joe said:


> ...
> Masonry ...does not ask to which religion you subscribe....



Umm, in some areas it does.


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## Companion Joe

If you want to go straight literal, then yes, you are correct. Our state petitions ask if you belong to a church, followed by which one. In the Commandery, you promise to defend Christianity.

I was talking in a broader sense.


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## pointwithinacircle2

I have always had to accept that not everyone who believes in God believes the same things about God that I believe.  Even some of the people who go to my church believe things about God that are radically different from me, and from each other.  This is why I never say more than "I believe in a supreme being and I call him God".  If someone presses me for more I say, "I really can't explain God" and I leave it at that.


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## dfreybur

Bro.doyleUK said:


> When I first went to my lodge for my "chat" about becoming a mason I was asked all the usual questions about why I wanted to join and of course I answered the best I could giving only honest answers of course.
> Now, I hope no one here gets offended or annoyed by this but I do not consider myself to very religious at all. I am very spiritual though so if I had to choose one id say I'm a spiritualist or maybe even a bit pagan ( I know nothing about paganism  other than I believe I am part of the earth and we should care for it).
> 
> So when the question came " do you believe in a supreme being or something higher than ourselves?"
> I said yes, and when asked what it was I said that I believed that everything in the universe is energy including consciousness and that I believed "God" is both.
> Now I received a few funny/ surprised looks at this point mixed with a few impressed facial expressions.
> 
> My question is did any body else give an unusual answer to this question seeing as we all come from a wide variety of religious backgrounds?



The distinction between religious and spiritual is not one that is often discussed and there is no good agreement on what it means.  Among those who make the distinction it's not to be expected they mean even slightly the same distinction.  There is strength in diversity.  I consider religion to be a human construct, pointing at something that is beyond us.  I selected one such construct once I reached peace with the notion of religions being human constructs.  I consider the spiritual to be the non-human something that human constructed religions are trying to point to.  Spiritual might or might not address the divine - I don't know how that works but I have seen both aspects in action.

For members of faiths that don't much address deity the word "existence" tends to get a lot of consideration before the candidate answers yes.  Buddhism, Taoism.  Probably other faiths.  The brother who obligated me on my third is a practicing Buddhist and it's fascinating to get him well away from our buildings after knowing him several years so he's willing to discuss the topic.

For members of faiths that are polytheist in various ways the word "supreme" tends to get a lot of consideration before the candidate answers yes.  Shinto, all native animist faiths and all pagan and heathen category religious are at least in theory polytheist.  Whether Hindu gets listed here or not is a matter of interpretation.  Last year Florida was in the news with a list of modern faiths of this type.  As furious as I was remotely, I have no idea how I would have reacted had I been a Florida Mason at that time.

My mother jurisdiction does not ask any follow up question so I had no need to explain my yes at any level of detail.  I find it a strange variation among jurisdictions that some do ask in more detail.


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## pointwithinacircle2

dfreybur said:


> The distinction between religious and spiritual is not one that is often discussed and there is no good agreement on what it means.


This is very true.  Personally, I define Spirituality as _what_ I do and Religion as _how_ I do it.


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## Bro.doyleUK

My main reason for declaring myself as "spiritual" in the first place was because  I had my friend teach me Reiki healing at when I was 17 just after I was told my mum had terminal cancer. She's ok now!
I have never really used Reiki on anyone other than myself but I'd never discuss this at lodge because I'm pretty sure the brethren would look at me like its nonsense.


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## Companion Joe

I think this thread needs to be locked. There are, quite frankly, some things being said here that, to me, are beyond comprehension. There is a reason religion is not to be discussed in open lodge. When asked if you believe in a supreme being, it's really not a cafeteria plan where you chose what you like. There is one supreme being. You are either washed in the blood or you are not. 

I don't know what every jurisdiction does, but the Masonry I practice is pretty clear. The scripture quoted throughout comes from one place and one place only. The first great light of Masonry is one book and one book only. While I am not as Bible-thumping as some of my local folks (yes, there are some Appalachian snake handlers), some things are pretty iron clad.


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## Glen Cook

Companion Joe said:


> ...You are either washed in the blood or you are not.



So, are you indicating we must be Christian to be a Freemason?


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## Companion Joe

I'm not indicating anyone MUST be Christian to be Freemason or anything else in life. Every man is free to make his own everlasting choices. 

To (semi) quote a Hollywood movie, the choices we make in live echo in eternity.

John 3:16


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## crono782

I do not feel as though anything said so far in this thread is contrary to peace and harmony. Well mannered discourse is a joy to participate in and edifying, and besides we are not in a tyled lodge. Carry on gents. 


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## Brother JC

Companion Joe said:


> The first great light of Masonry is one book and one book only.


I have many Brothers who would disagree, and would never alienate you as you have just done to them. The Volume Of Sacred Law is different for different Freemasons.


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## BryanMaloney

Companion Joe said:


> I think this thread needs to be locked. There are, quite frankly, some things being said here that, to me, are beyond comprehension. There is a reason religion is not to be discussed in open lodge. When asked if you believe in a supreme being, it's really not a cafeteria plan where you chose what you like. There is one supreme being. You are either washed in the blood or you are not.
> 
> I don't know what every jurisdiction does, but the Masonry I practice is pretty clear. The scripture quoted throughout comes from one place and one place only. The first great light of Masonry is one book and one book only. While I am not as Bible-thumping as some of my local folks (yes, there are some Appalachian snake handlers), some things are pretty iron clad.



To equate belief in a Supreme Being with "being washed in the blood" plainly says that one considers belief in a Supreme Being to be restricted not just to Christians but only to a subset of Christians who subscribe to that particular soteriological standpoint.


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## Companion Joe

While posting last night, it was well past more normal bed time. Also, I am about as far from an Evangelist as you can get. I believe the differences in the world's major religions are more differences in interpretation than anything. I had just read some of the posts and gotten a bit carried away. It was a reaction to my interpretation of those. But, I have trouble wrapping my head around the thoughts of Masonry and polytheism or religions without a concept of deity in the  same sentence. 

I probably didn't do a good job of articulating my thoughts last night, and I believe I am still having trouble doing so. For that, I am sorry. Maybe elsewhere ritual is different, but in my state, the scripture recited when a candidate enters a Lodge for the first time to the scripture read during his Masonic funeral comes from one place.


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## pointwithinacircle2

Companion Joe said:


> While posting last night, it was well past more normal bed time. Also, I am about as far from an Evangelist as you can get. I believe the differences in the world's major religions are more differences in interpretation than anything. I had just read some of the posts and gotten a bit carried away. It was a reaction to my interpretation of those. But, I have trouble wrapping my head around the thoughts of Masonry and polytheism or religions without a concept of deity in the  same sentence.
> 
> I probably didn't do a good job of articulating my thoughts last night, and I believe I am still having trouble doing so. For that, I am sorry. Maybe elsewhere ritual is different, but in my state, the scripture recited when a candidate enters a Lodge for the first time to the scripture read during his Masonic funeral comes from one place.


Brother Joe - I have been known to use the "ignore user" feature on this forum (and it is especially useful on this thread), but I not found a reason to employ it in your case.  I have no problem with a Mason who knows what is right for him, or even one who believes that what is right for him is right for everyone else (as long as he is respectful to others).  I am always open to intelligent, logical, respectful debate.  It is only when a mans conversation degenerates into mean spirited  ignorance that I no longer wish to hear what he has to say.  I realize that I may get that type of response to this post, fortunately I already have those users on ignore.


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## pointwithinacircle2

Companion Joe said:


> I'm not indicating anyone MUST be Christian to be Freemason or anything else in life. Every man is free to make his own everlasting choices.
> 
> To (semi) quote a Hollywood movie, the choices we make in live echo in eternity.
> 
> John 3:16


To quote another Hollywood movie:


pointwithinacircle2 said:


> "The nature of our immortal lives is in the consequences of our deeds that go on replicating(?) themselves throughout all time".
> 
> "Our lives are not our own, from womb to tomb we are bound to others, past and present, and by each crime and every kindness we birth our future".


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## Glen Cook

Companion Joe said:


> Maybe elsewhere ritual is different, but in my state, the scripture recited when a candidate enters a Lodge for the first time to the scripture read during his Masonic funeral comes from one place.



But of what significance is this?  Are you indicating all Masons must believe in the Bible?


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## Glen Cook

Companion Joe said:


> I'm not indicating anyone MUST be Christian to be Freemason or anything else in life. Every man is free to make his own everlasting choices.
> ...
> 
> John 3:16



So, then, what did you mean by the statement, "You are either washed in the blood or you are not"?  I don't mean this in a baiting way, but in making such pronouncements, particularly in a Masonic forum, a denial of the apparent meaning leads to further inquiry.


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## admarcus1

pointwithinacircle2 said:


> Brother Joe - I have been known to use the "ignore user" feature on this forum (and it is especially useful on this thread).


There is an ignore user feature?  How does it work?

If I am one of the user's you are ignoring, I hope someone else can answer. 


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## pointwithinacircle2

admarcus1 said:


> There is an ignore user feature?  How does it work?
> 
> If I am one of the user's you are ignoring, I hope someone else can answer.


left click on someones picture (or blank picture) and a window opens.  click on the word ignore on the right side of the box.     Their posts will no longer be visible to you.  Should you wish to read the missing posts on a specific thread a "show ignored user" button will appear at the bottom of each page that an ignored user has posted on.  (I do not recommend using it though, it is better to go with your first instinct)


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## Companion Joe

Glen Cook said:


> So, then, what did you mean by the statement, "You are either washed in the blood or you are not"?  I don't mean this in a baiting way, but in making such pronouncements, particularly in a Masonic forum, a denial of the apparent meaning leads to further inquiry.



As I said, I was tired and somewhat caught up. I didn't do a good job of expressing myself. I am not one to debate religion or politics and tried to talk myself out of even joining in on this thread. I in the future listen to my own counsel and not revisit it.


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## Glen Cook

Companion Joe said:


> ... and tried to talk myself out of even joining in on this thread. I in the future listen to my own counsel and not revisit it.



Well, likely we have all ignored our own counsel at times.


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## NoNoSansSon

What is the relationship with Freemasonry and Nimrod if any? Is there a direct connection, as I am pursuing taking my journey soon.


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## dfreybur

NoNoSansSon said:


> What is the relationship with Freemasonry and Nimrod if any? Is there a direct connection, as I am pursuing taking my journey soon.



Nimrod is a character in the Bible's story about Noah.  That story is not used in Masonry since about 1723. 
Maybe the story was used before 1723.  The records aren't clear.

If you intend to petition a lodge I recommend against reading the content of the degrees.  Read all you like about the philosophy and history of Masonry.  The degrees are initiatory in nature.  That means they are supposed to come as a surprise like a kid opening Christmas presents.  Reading the details of the degree is like searching for the Christmas presents before the big day.  It spoils the emotional impact.  Christmas comes every year so you have the chance to try again.  You only experience your degrees once.


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## Warrior1256

JMorris said:


> I was never asked a follow up question and was actually told to answer yes or no
> 
> 
> Jeff


I was under the impression that we were NOT supposed to ask this follow up question, that each Brother's religious beliefs were private and not to be discussed in Lodge.


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## pointwithinacircle2

I find it interesting that I want to cut and paste the answer that I just wrote here: http://www.myfreemasonry.com/threads/grand-lodge-of-the-united-states.23655/#post-133839 into this thread

I find it fascinating that my reasoning for both answers should be so similar.


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