# Diffusion of York Rite and Scottish Rite across the World



## Taiuti (Apr 16, 2018)

Dear Brothers,
I have some questions about York and Scottish Rite, if you can help me: I'm writing from Italy and members of both rites in subject usually express to me quite the same symmetrical statements:

- We are absolutely the most widespread rite in the world;
- Our Rite derives from traditions that precede UGLE constitution in 1717 (York from the Ancients, Scottish from the older Scotland freemasonry);
- The *other one* is a later creation from the United States (York from the US military lodges that spread across Europe, Scottish that developed in US);
- We represent the most ancient, esoteric interpretation of traditional Freemasonry.

Any brothers that I talked to appear very sincere and proud of the Rite they belong to, but that's a bit confusing for me!

I give you my T ∴ F ∴ A ∴ (Triplice Fraterno Abbraccio, that in italian means Triple Fraternal Hug)


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## coachn (Apr 16, 2018)

Taiuti said:


> Dear Brothers,
> I have some questions about York and Scottish Rite, if you can help me: I'm writing from Italy and members of both rites in subject usually express to me quite the same symmetrical statements:
> 
> - We are absolutely the most widespread rite in the world;
> ...


You're going to get this from anyone who has bought into the script they were handed by the organization.  They either don't know any better OR they are maintaining their role played character in the hopes they will win over more members.  Either way, they are toeing the party line and will continue to do so to support the organization's needs.


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## hfmm97 (Apr 16, 2018)

Taiuti - Are you a Masonic brother (Lei é fratello massonico?)

I took Italian at university in the USA 30 years ago all I can do now is read it and the last time I tried to help a brother he got upset due to language differences.
This is an English speaking forum based in Texas - I don’t know if we can help you due to language differences I think you would get more help from your local Italian Brothers particularly those that are mason history scholars

Buona Fortuna (Good luck)


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## Taiuti (Apr 16, 2018)

So nice answer brother  my compliments for your ability in my beautiful and hard language! I'm an Entered Apprentice of Grand Orient of Italy.

I hope to meet you here in Florence or in your proud state!

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## hfmm97 (Apr 16, 2018)

I appreciate your enthusiasm for the history and rites of Freemasonry. Most of the brothers who study such topics have been Master Masons for many years to study such advanced topics.
Focus on the work that you need to do to complete your EA - these advanced studies would distract you from your primary goal of being a Master Mason...
I have been a Master Mason for over 20 years and have much interest in history and philosophy of Masonry but I started after I had 5 years as a Master Mason.


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## hfmm97 (Apr 16, 2018)

By the way, when I was much stronger in the very beautiful Italian language, I visited Rome in 1996-most beautiful Eternal City (Città Eterna) love to go back as soon as possible. I hope one day to visit your most Honorable and Respectable orient - buona fortuna mio fratello massonico! E buona sera di Texas!


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## Taiuti (Apr 17, 2018)

hfmm97 said:


> By the way, when I was much stronger in the very beautiful Italian language, I visited Rome in 1996-most beautiful Eternal City (Città Eterna) love to go back as soon as possible. I hope one day to visit your most Honorable and Respectable orient - buona fortuna mio fratello massonico! E buona sera di Texas!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using My Freemasonry mobile app


Buona Fortuna a te Fratellone, Good Luck Big Brother!

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## Taiuti (Apr 17, 2018)

hfmm97 said:


> I appreciate your enthusiasm for the history and rites of Freemasonry. Most of the brothers who study such topics have been Master Masons for many years to study such advanced topics.
> Focus on the work that you need to do to complete your EA - these advanced studies would distract you from your primary goal of being a Master Mason...
> I have been a Master Mason for over 20 years and have much interest in history and philosophy of Masonry but I started after I had 5 years as a Master Mason.
> 
> ...


Dear Brother, your advice is very wise and I will observe it, thank you.
I ask that question because in recent Grand Lodge meeting in Rimini of Grand Orient of Italy, I met many Master Masons brothers belonging to different Rites, that gave me precious suggestions and teachings, applicable to my grade.

Anyway, I would like to share withyku that long list of Rites that we have in Italy!

- Scottish Rite
- York Rite
- Memphis and Misraim Rite
- Ancient Primal Noah's Rite
- Italian Symbolic Rite
And 10-12 more!

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## hfmm97 (Apr 17, 2018)

I myself tried to study Freemasonry well before the world wide web (like the 1980s) and just got confused. I did not become initiated until 1996. 

I recommend, brother that you tell these brothers that want to discuss these advanced topics with you to thank them, but say that you are just beginning your journey in Masonry and want to go step by step - we all have to walk before we can run.


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## vinceatwork (Apr 21, 2018)

To Brother Taiuti:

There is a very instructive book on the confusing situation in Italy: “_Nuovi Fratelli, Storia e Segreti della Massoneria da Tangentopoli alle Inchieste P3 e P4_” – By Dino Arrigo, Lit Edizioni Srl, 2013.

As for the origins of (esoteric) Masonry, going far beyond 1717, there is a booklet by Frank H. Higgins, published in New York, 1916:

http://www.freemasonryresearchforumqsa.com/higgins-beginningofmasonry.php


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## hfmm97 (Apr 21, 2018)

Vinceatwork - This appears to be about the P2 irregular lodge scandal - this is not something that Bro Taiuti as an EA needs to concern himself with right now.

Bro Taiuti this book “New Brothers History and Stories of Masonry of Tangentopoli(?) P3 & P4 surveys(?) “ assuming this is a more or less correct translation
Mi piacere la frase italiana ed e vero traduttore e traditore (translator is a traitor) there were some organizations that FALSELY CLAIMED to be Masons in Italy that created a huge banking scandal - don’t waste your time with this right now


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## vinceatwork (Apr 21, 2018)

To: Bro. Taiuti (GOI)

Yes, perhaps Bro. Tony Flores (hfmm93) has a point: Unless you have unlimited time, as an Entered Apprentice, you should devote your time to the study of the (200 pages) manual “_L’Appendista Libero Muratore_” by Luigi Troisi, Bastogi Libri 2014.


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## Warrior1256 (Apr 22, 2018)

Interesting subject since I belong to both Rites.


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## hfmm97 (Apr 22, 2018)

Here in Texas, as I would assume for most of the rest of the USA/Canada, that EA/FC/MM studies are not about researching Masonic history and philosophy since they’re too busy focusing on the work they need to do for their degrees.


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## hfmm97 (Apr 22, 2018)

It seems that there is more of a focus on research in European Masonic lodges to advance to Master Mason - someone please confirm this - I just wouldn’t expect EA Masons to be doing research so early in their Masonic career


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## Mike Martin (Apr 24, 2018)

Taiuti said:


> - We are absolutely the most widespread rite in the world;
> - Our Rite derives from traditions that precede UGLE constitution in 1717 (York from the Ancients, Scottish from the older Scotland freemasonry);
> - The *other one* is a later creation from the United States (York from the US military lodges that spread across Europe, Scottish that developed in US);
> - We represent the most ancient, esoteric interpretation of traditional Freemasonry.



OOOPS!

The Grand Lodge of All England at York (1725 - 1734) actually practised exactly the same Ceremonies and Degrees as the Premier Grand Lodge in London, this is because the extra degrees didn't actually exist at that point in time. The Degrees making up the York Rite were invented at several points in time but had coalesced into a "Rite" and were practised by the handful of Lodges under the Grand Lodge of All England at York at its second incarnation (1762 - 1792). When the Grand Lodge at York died out in 1792 the last members took the "Rite" to America where it proved to be as successful as the French made "Scottish Rite" was and so it still exists but over here is usually known as the American Rite because there were only about 10 Lodges that ever practised it in England.


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## Warrior1256 (Apr 24, 2018)

Mike Martin said:


> The Grand Lodge of All England at York (1725 - 1734) actually practised exactly the same Ceremonies and Degrees as the Premier Grand Lodge in London, this is because the extra degrees didn't actually exist at that point in time. The Degrees making up the York Rite were invented at several points in time but had coalesced into a "Rite" and were practised by the handful of Lodges under the Grand Lodge of All England at York at its second incarnation (1762 - 1792).


Very interesting Brother.


Mike Martin said:


> When the Grand Lodge at York died out in 1792 the last members took the "Rite" to America where it proved to be as successful as the French made "Scottish Rite" was and so it still exists but over here is usually known as the American Rite because there were only about 10 Lodges that ever practised it in England.


Cool!


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## SørenSweR(I) (Jun 2, 2018)

All grand lodges of the Swedish Rite have their own dedicated research lodge on the national levels


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## Taiuti (Jun 17, 2018)

vinceatwork said:


> To Brother Taiuti:
> 
> There is a very instructive book on the confusing situation in Italy: “_Nuovi Fratelli, Storia e Segreti della Massoneria da Tangentopoli alle Inchieste P3 e P4_” – By Dino Arrigo, Lit Edizioni Srl, 2013.
> 
> ...



Sorry for late answer, I didn't see the notificatons, I have the first book  it was hard to find!

Your second link is so beautiful! Thank you very much I started reading  just after finding your link


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## Center (Jun 24, 2018)

Mike Martin said:


> OOOPS!
> 
> The Grand Lodge of All England at York (1725 - 1734) actually practiced exactly the same Ceremonies and Degrees as the Premier Grand Lodge in London, this is because the extra degrees didn't actually exist at that point in time..


small note: a couple of months ago  I visited the UGLE  central Temple as tourist in London I found on the Northern side, near the organ the triple tau of the York Rite.(If I well recall). The museum and the small temple of the Duke of Kent were of an astonishing beauty. The guide was so smart and sarcastic. Really Brit sphere and delicious Brit humour. Culturally speaking I would try to replicate one  funny pun, giving you my most profane compliments for the yesterdays 6-1 at the world cup


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## Glen Cook (Jun 24, 2018)

Center said:


> small note: a couple of months ago  I visited the UGLE  central Temple as tourist in London I found on the Northern side, near the organ the triple tau of the York Rite.(If I well recall). The museum and the small temple of the Duke of Kent were of an astonishing beauty. The guide was so smart and sarcastic. Really Brit sphere and delicious Brit humour. Culturally speaking I would try to replicate one  funny pun, giving you my most profane compliments for the yesterdays 6-1 at the world cup


Great Queen Street is Indeed beautiful.

I think you mean the Temple where the Grand Master’s lodge meets.

It would be the tau for the Holy Royal Arch, considered a part of ancient Freemasonry.


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## Center (Jun 25, 2018)

Exactly Glenn, God bless England.


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## Mike Martin (Jun 25, 2018)

Center said:


> small note: a couple of months ago  I visited the UGLE  central Temple as tourist in London I found on the Northern side, near the organ the triple tau of the York Rite.(If I well recall). The museum and the small temple of the Duke of Kent were of an astonishing beauty. The guide was so smart and sarcastic. Really Brit sphere and delicious Brit humour. Culturally speaking I would try to replicate one  funny pun, giving you my most profane compliments for the yesterdays 6-1 at the world cup


You should have come to see me as that is where I work 

The triple tau is displayed as a symbol of the Holy Royal Arch which is not exclusively a part of the "York Rite" but which is considered to be the completion of the Master Mason degree here in England 

The football was interesting but only the beginning of a long tournament.


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## Center (Jun 26, 2018)

Ah ok, you were the skinny tall, kind of red hair(do not remember) witty guy, then.
I loved your joke about the corner stone that in the years become the belly of the brothers, brilliant.

And I appreciated the organization maintained the fama fraternitatis at the beginning of the museum, this means a lot to me.

EDIT: I saw your pic on the internet, googling it, no you were the friend, that remained in the museum, but anyway thanks because also you replied my questions there.


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## Taiuti (Jun 27, 2018)

I'm glad to have started such an interesting and kind conversation.

Besides esoteric topics, that is too early for me to deal with, I'm still interested on the original question about the presence of the Rites worldwide.

That's an interesting topic specially in Italy, because the Rites have had a premiere role in international recognition of Grand Orient of Italy in the last century.

If you permit me a little digression, here they are some events of primary importance for italian Freemasonry:

In 1805 the Grand Orient of Italy itself was funded in Turin by Brothers initiated in french Scottish Rite (55 years before the birth itself of Italy as a state!);

In 1908 have happen a split between GOI and italian Supreme Council (generating the Grand Lodge of Italy, that have women and no separation between Blue Lodge and High Degrees). The work of Brothers of the newborn Supreme Council related to GOI was essential to mantain/regain international recognitions;

In 1993 a new split in GOI (driven by UGLE, as they did in Greece and in other countries) generate a brand new, pure Emulation Grand Lodge, the Regular Grand Lodge of Italy. The RGLI was immediately recognized by UGLE as planned, to the detriment of GOI that lose it, but thanks to the Brothers of the pretty young York Rite in Italy (at that time), we kept almost all mutual recognitions with United States and world Grand Lodges.

Today, in Italy we are in a pretty strange situation: Grand Orient of Italy is not recognized by UGLE, but has mutual recognition with almost all Grand Lodges of the world, that are recognized by UGLE 
At the same time, italian York Rite has mutual recognition with UGLE, even if UGLE doesn't recognize GOI, but italian York Rite has mutual recognition with GOI!


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## Warrior1256 (Jun 27, 2018)

Taiuti said:


> n 1908 have happen a split between GOI and italian Supreme Council (generating the Grand Lodge of Italy, that have women and no separation between Blue Lodge and High Degrees). The work of Brothers of the newborn Supreme Council related to GOI was essential to mantain/regain international recognitions;
> 
> In 1993 a new split in GOI (driven by UGLE, as they did in Greece and in other countries) generate a brand new, pure Emulation Grand Lodge, the Regular Grand Lodge of Italy. The RGLI was immediately recognized by UGLE as planned, to the detriment of GOI that lose it, but thanks to the Brothers of the pretty young York Rite in Italy (at that time), we kept almost all mutual recognitions with United States and world Grand Lodges.
> 
> ...


Whew!!! Making my head spin!


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## Center (Jun 30, 2018)

We Italians say we are machiavellic, that we use in the sense that we are complex.


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## EVG Yumul (Aug 6, 2018)

I'm guessing there is a confusion here, Brethren.
When you say "Rite" it means differently depending where you are.
It could mean Rite as an Appendant Body of Freemasonry.
Or Rite as the rituals used in the Three Symbolic Degrees.

I think what Brother Taiuti is asking about is Rite pertaining to the rituals used in the Three Symbolic Degrees.
English Rituals, American Rituals (also known as York Rite), Scottish Workings, Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite, and Swedish Rite are all examples of Rituals that are practised in Craft (Blue) Lodges, used to confer the three degrees.
The Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite has very esoteric elements and is practised in South America, Europe (France, Spain, Italy, et al), Africa, and some Lodges in the Pacific (Singapore, Papua New Guinea, and Australia).
I belong to a Craft lodge that practises the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite under the United Grand Lodge of New South Wales and the Australian Capital Territory.
The majority of Australia uses rituals based on the Emulation (English) Rituals or the Scottish Workings.

As to your original question, your observations are accurate, Brother Taiuti.
Even if you're just an Apprentice, continue on your research.
I understand that it is a requirement for your degree progression and you're doing well, I might add.
The pursuit of Knowledge should ever be the priority of any Mason.


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## Warrior1256 (Aug 7, 2018)

EVG Yumul said:


> The pursuit of Knowledge should ever be the priority of any Mason.


I can totally agree with this.


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## YHWH (Oct 27, 2018)

Taiuti said:


> Dear Brother, your advice is very wise and I will observe it, thank you.
> I ask that question because in recent Grand Lodge meeting in Rimini of Grand Orient of Italy, I met many Master Masons brothers belonging to different Rites, that gave me precious suggestions and teachings, applicable to my grade.
> 
> Anyway, I would like to share withyku that long list of Rites that we have in Italy!
> ...



You are forgetting the Rectified Scottish Rite o Order of the Knights Beneficient of The Holy City. 

The Italian situation is complicated by the fact that there are 2 regular Grand Lodges: the Grand Orient of Italy, the oldest and most authoritative, and the Regular Grand Lodge of Italy, derived from a "political" split, and currently recognized only by the "English circuit".
GOI admits these Rites, RGLI admits "Side Degrees".
However, the Rites are currently "specialization courses", beyond the craft.
I recommend the following books:
- http://www.atanoreditrice.it/prodotto/natale-mario-di-luca-la-massoneria-storia-miti-e-riti/
- https://www.unilibro.it/ebook/salvatore-farina/libro-completo-riti-massonici-e-book-pdf/80611856
- of course Emulation Ritual of EA or the Simbolic Ritual of the EA
And the following italian forum: http://lodgeroominternationals.com/massoneria/phpBB3/index.php?sid=00998af209598885b5ae8dee904999d4


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