# demiting from prince hall mason to mainstream



## draekell (Nov 13, 2013)

i was wondering what the process is to demit from PH masonry to mainstream is there a fee i know brothers who went from main stream to PH any info would be helpful


My Freemasonry


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## Masontruth (Nov 13, 2013)

I believe in California at some point you would have to denounce your other Grand Lodge. I remember years back we had a Brother join us from Prince Hall Grand Lodge of Alaska. My Brother, if I am not overstepping boundaries what might be your reason for doing so? I am from a mainstream Grand Lodge and have always (even before Recognition) considered our Prince Hall Brethren as Mainstream. Most states share some type of Recognition. I am not sure if there are any holdouts... G-d Bless and good luck with whatever decision you make.. Fraternally, Manny Blanco


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## jwhoff (Nov 13, 2013)

I, too, am a "mainstream" mason.  Not sure how that rings in your ears.  But for me it sounds strange in that Prince Hall masonry's ties to the Grand Lodge of England are ever bit as strong as my jurisdiction here in Texas.  Here in Texas we have vibrant and strong jurisdictions thriving side by side.  I would not wish to see "raids" between the two legitimate jurisdictions begin in any form.  

Brethren are free to join either jurisdiction they wish here.  There is no co-membership of course.  Though visitation is forbidden between the jurisdictions here, we do recognize each other as legitimate masons.  

Let me be clear, I speak not about clandestine Prince Hall masonry.  Rather legitimate Prince Hall masonry with its roots extending to the Grand Lodge of England.

Hopefully your decision has nothing to do with legitimacy and everything to do with personal reasons.  That said, I wish you well in your masonic journey:  a journey worth your while.  We all, Prince Hall and "mainstream," fill an important place in this world.  We are so small in numbers verses the profane world, it behooves us to trust and support each other in our efforts to spread the light.

May the GAOTU bless and keep you brother.


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## FlBrother324 (Nov 13, 2013)

draekell said:


> i was wondering what the process is to demit from PH masonry to mainstream is there a fee i know brothers who went from main stream to PH any info would be helpful
> 
> 
> My Freemasonry



My Br. Draekell,

I would strongly suggest you contact the Grand Lodge Jurisdiction in your state (verify it to be "main-stream" & "recognized/legitimate"), advise them as to your current status regarding PH affiliation. They can advise you which Lodges are in your area to which you can petition. You will need to go through the 3 degrees again if voted into a Lodge, also you will probably need to pay the Lodge you petition their usual fees/dues required for membership. The Lodge should posses a book of affiliated Grand Lodges, and Blue Lodges recognized by them  for verification purposes if you're not sure. 

Though there are "Main-stream" Grand Lodge Jurisdictions that recognize and allow visitation which you might want to check out before demiting from your PH Lodge.

Hope you find what it is you're looking for Brother.
 May you be Blessed in your Travels.

p.s.

Attached, is a site posted by Br. Freyburger 
on other threads that might help you as well.
http://bessel.org/masrec/phamap.htm


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## Masontruth (Nov 13, 2013)

Brother Jwolf, your post is good and wise counsel. I did go by Worshipful Paul Bessel's site http://bessel.org/webindex.htm and looked up Recognition of Prince Hall by Mainstream Grand Lodges. It seems as if some of the Southern Stated have not currently Recognized our Prine Hall Brethren. The good of Masonry will eventually make that happen in time. BTW: Worshipful Bessel's site is an AWESOME site for mostly all Masonic information.


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## MarkR (Nov 14, 2013)

FlBrother324 said:


> My Br. Draekell,
> 
> I would strongly suggest you contact the Grand Lodge Jurisdiction in your state (verify it to be "main-stream" & "recognized/legitimate"), advise them as to your current status regarding PH affiliation. They can advise you which Lodges are in your area to which you can petition. You will need to go through the 3 degrees again if voted into a Lodge, also you will probably need to pay the Lodge you petition their usual fees/dues required for membership. The Lodge should posses a book of affiliated Grand Lodges, and Blue Lodges recognized by them  for verification purposes if you're not sure.
> 
> ...


It may not be necessary to go through the degrees again.  We had a man who had been raised in a PHA military lodge overseas while working for a military contractor.  He moved to our town, and the nearest PHA lodge is in the Twin Cities, 80-90 miles away.  He contacted us, and the guidance we got from our Grand Lodge was that once we got confirmation of his good standing from the PHA Grand Lodge of Washington (state) we could affiliate him directly into our Lodge.  Not a problem, did not have to go through the degrees again.


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## Blake Bowden (Nov 14, 2013)

Great information Brothers.


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## draekell (Nov 14, 2013)

Blake Bowden said:


> Great information Brothers.



thank all of you for the good info


My Freemasonry


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## dfreybur (Nov 14, 2013)

draekell said:


> i was wondering what the process is to demit from PH masonry to mainstream is there a fee i know



According to your posting history you were in Hawaii.  Are you still in Hawaii?  When the MWPHAGLofHI split from California you inherited the agreement made between the MWPHAGLofCA+HI and the GLofCA.  That agreement happened in the mid-1990s when I was a deacon in the line.  The agreement says there are to be no dual affiliations so you can't just apply for dual membership.  You do in fact have to include your demit paperwork with your petition for affiliation.  Should your petition be approved (it's very rare to turn away a brother) the demit is sent and your membership switches.

California lodges charge an affiliation fee that is set per lodge.  It's nominal in every case I've seen.  GLofCA+HI split somewhere around 1990 before I petitioned.  I have no reason to think Hawaii has changed that tradition since then.  There will be some affiliation fee that is likely to be nominal, as in smaller than the degree fees you paid years ago.

As you are a member of a regular and recognized jurisdiction there will be no special ceremony to bring to aboard.  No healing, no repeated degrees.  Just a petition for affiliation with a check attached, a bunch of paperwork between jurisdictions to confirm current standing, a visit from an investigating committee to confirm you're not homeless and that your wife does not object, a vote to accept you, a bill for prorated dues for the year and sending the demit form to your previous lodge.  By far the longest part of the sequence will be the paperwork moving jurisdiction to jurisdiction.  Both Hawaii GLs are tiny so they are unlikely to be fast in processing paperwork.


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## DIAMOND.M.ROBINSON (Nov 15, 2013)

Keep in mind brethren that it is very difficult to get out of Prince Hall Masonry seeing that demits have to be voted on and approved...and Prince Hall Lodges do not allow one to demit into a Non Prince Hall Lodge. This causes a bit of an uproar once the Lodge finds out you're leaving one for the other. 


There are two ways it can happen in Hawaii: 

1.) You renounce your membership completely in Prince Hall via certified mail to Prince Hall Grand Lodge of Hawaii so that the Grand Secretary is in receipt. (Prince Hall does not allow a demit into a non Prince Hall Lodge) Then you apply to the Lodge in which you want to be a member of and get voted in. You are now considered a "Free Agent" with no ties to your previous Lodge. Once accepted you go through the degrees again because the Grand Lodge of Hawaii  does not have a formal healing process. 

2.) You must have an approved demit from your Lodge in good standing, then apply to one of the "Mainstream" Lodges. Once the majority of the brethren vote and you are accepted the Grand Master will come in and declare you a Mason on sight and you will sign the bylaws and receive a dues card to that particular Lodge. 

D.M. ROBINSON
Honolulu Lodge F.&A.M. 
Worshipful Master

Senior Grand Deacon 
Grand Lodge of Hawaii F.&A.M. 

Also a member of: 

Trinity Valley Lodge No. 1048
Grand Lodge of Texas A.F.&A.M. 

Walhalla Lodge No. 69 
United Grand Lodge of Victoria A.F.&A.M.
(Australia)


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## dfreybur (Nov 15, 2013)

DIAMOND.M.ROBINSON said:


> Keep in mind brethren that it is very difficult to get out of Prince Hall Masonry seeing that demits have to be voted on and approved...and Prince Hall Lodges do not allow one to demit into a Non Prince Hall Lodge.



Wow.  I was not even aware it was allowed to refuse a demit request.  Thanks for the education.

If the demit is allowed the GM needs to get involved?  That sounds to me like a local variation.  As any one recognized PHA GL is just another recognized GL does that mean to demit to Hawaii from any GL the GM needs to get involved or do PHA jurisdictions get special treatment in this?


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## DIAMOND.M.ROBINSON (Nov 16, 2013)

dfreybur said:
			
		

> Wow.  I was not even aware it was allowed to refuse a demit request.  Thanks for the education.
> 
> If the demit is allowed the GM needs to get involved?  That sounds to me like a local variation.  As any one recognized PHA GL is just another recognized GL does that mean to demit to Hawaii from any GL the GM needs to get involved or do PHA jurisdictions get special treatment in this?



It is sort of a local variation my Brother. The way Hawaii works on recognition is: we recognize all Prince Hall Grand Lodges that are recognized by their mainstream counterparts i.e. If the Grand Lodge of ?? recognizes the Prince Hall Grand Lodge of ?? then we automatically recognize them as well. 

The Grand Master comes into the picture because we don't have a formal healing process and he declares that particular brother a Mason on Sight once he follows the options I listed in the previous message. But if you are a member of a recognized Grand Lodge and wish to affiliate you can do so of your own free will and accord. 

It would be great to see cross affiliation between the two, but seeing as if you are a member of a PHA Lodge you can only be a member of one Lodge then demit every time you move (which is crazy to me, but that's the way it is) 

Hopefully that answers any questions anyone might have. 

Side note: The Grand Lodge of Hawaii enjoys the relationship with The Prince Hall Grand Lodge of Hawaii. Check out my Lodge website and see for yourself the beauty of Masonry shared with all of our Brothers from all over the world. 

www.honolulufreemasons.org


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