# Dual Lodge Membership



## Derinique Kendrick (Apr 6, 2016)

This doesn't pertain to me, but it is just a question I am asking out of curiosity. Is there a purpose for dual lodge membership? I guess what I am trying to ask is, what would be some of the reasons a brother joins multiple lodges.


----------



## Ripcord22A (Apr 6, 2016)

Funny you should ask that...i was wondering the same thing....however there are different circumstances at play.  I am a member of both a blue lidge amd Scottish Rite valley in Oregon and NM.  Oregon is where i joined the Craft and will always maintain my membership there, even if I dont return.  When the Army moved me to NM i joined here.  The reason being so i could take part in more then just sitting in lodge.  Whem the Army Moves me again I will demit from both lodge and valley here as I never plan to return here to live ever again.  Where I move to I will join there and demit when I leave.  
What i dont understand is when a brother joins multiple lodges in the same town.

Sent from my LG-H811 using My Freemasonry Pro mobile app


----------



## MRichard (Apr 6, 2016)

Derinique Kendrick said:


> This doesn't pertain to me, but it is just a question I am asking out of curiosity. Is there a purpose for dual lodge membership? I guess what I am trying to ask is, what would be some of the reasons a brother joins multiple lodges.



I believe we refer to it as plural membership. You can join as many lodges as you want to the best of my knowledge. Each lodge is different. You might have a small lodge with a few members and then you might have a big lodge in large city with many members.

Some lodges are rather specific in the type of members they want. Some might be more social. Each lodge is different.


----------



## hanzosbm (Apr 6, 2016)

Some lodges have something going on several times a week.  Pancake breakfasts, stated meetings, degrees, social clubs, ritual practice, etc.  Others have one stated meeting per month and go dark for a few months out of the year.  If you lived in an area where the lodges only got together 9 times a YEAR, that might not be enough for you.  But if you joined several different ones, together they might keep you as active as you'd like.  
Or, I've got friends in Lodge A and friends in Lodge B and I enjoy the company of both, I think I'll go to both.  Or, as Brother MRichard pointed out, Lodge A is social and Lodge B focuses on philanthropy and Lodge C hosts a great discussion on Masonic topics.  I like all three of those aspects but can't find them all in any one lodge. 
There's a number of different reasons.


----------



## Derinique Kendrick (Apr 6, 2016)

jdmadsenCraterlake211 said:


> Funny you should ask that...i was wondering the same thing....however there are different circumstances at play.  I am a member of both a blue lidge amd Scottish Rite valley in Oregon and NM.  Oregon is where i joined the Craft and will always maintain my membership there, even if I dont return.  When the Army moved me to NM i joined here.  The reason being so i could take part in more then just sitting in lodge.  Whem the Army Moves me again I will demit from both lodge and valley here as I never plan to return here to live ever again.  Where I move to I will join there and demit when I leave.
> What i dont understand is when a brother joins multiple lodges in the same town.
> 
> Sent from my LG-H811 using My Freemasonry Pro mobile app


Your case is very understandable. I happen to like that perspective. I now have this to take into consideration as this case may be the same for a lot of the other brothers as well.


----------



## Derinique Kendrick (Apr 6, 2016)

MRichard said:


> I believe we refer to it as plural membership. You can join as many lodges as you want to the best of my knowledge. Each lodge is different. You might have a small lodge with a few members and then you might have a big lodge in large city with many members.
> 
> Some lodges are rather specific in the type of members they want. Some might be more social. Each lodge is different.


Yes, that is what I meant, just worded it differently. But seeing that each lodge is different, wouldn't it just be best to just choose which lodge worked for you the best instead of joining both. Make sense?


----------



## Derinique Kendrick (Apr 6, 2016)

hanzosbm said:


> Some lodges have something going on several times a week.  Pancake breakfasts, stated meetings, degrees, social clubs, ritual practice, etc.  Others have one stated meeting per month and go dark for a few months out of the year.  If you lived in an area where the lodges only got together 9 times a YEAR, that might not be enough for you.  But if you joined several different ones, together they might keep you as active as you'd like.
> Or, I've got friends in Lodge A and friends in Lodge B and I enjoy the company of both, I think I'll go to both.  Or, as Brother MRichard pointed out, Lodge A is social and Lodge B focuses on philanthropy and Lodge C hosts a great discussion on Masonic topics.  I like all three of those aspects but can't find them all in any one lodge.
> There's a number of different reasons.


Understandable, in fact I like the idea. But, why not just hold membership in the one lodge you enjoy the most, and just VISIT or affiliate the others that you like?


----------



## MRichard (Apr 6, 2016)

Derinique Kendrick said:


> Yes, that is what I meant, just worded it differently. But seeing that each lodge is different, wouldn't it just be best to just choose which lodge worked for you the best instead of joining both. Make sense?



Hazosbm stated it better than me. I only belong to one lodge now but it is quite a good distance from me. I am also interested in looking at some lodges closer in the foreseeable future. I could actively be a member of several lodges as long as there was no conflicts with meeting times. I will be looking for something different if I affiliate with another lodge (s).


----------



## Sprout (Apr 6, 2016)

It might be to help another lodge from loosing there charter. 

Sent from my SM-G900V using My Freemasonry Pro mobile app


----------



## Derinique Kendrick (Apr 6, 2016)

jdmadsenCraterlake211 said:


> What i dont understand is when a brother joins multiple lodges in the same town.
> 
> Sent from my LG-H811 using My Freemasonry Pro mobile app


Ditto!


----------



## Derinique Kendrick (Apr 6, 2016)

Sprout said:


> It might be to help another lodge from loosing there charter.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900V using My Freemasonry Pro mobile app


That's a good reason.


----------



## Derinique Kendrick (Apr 6, 2016)

MRichard said:


> Hazosbm stated it better than me. I only belong to one lodge now but it is quite a good distance from me. I am also interested in looking at some lodges closer in the foreseeable future. I could actively be a member of several lodges as long as there was no conflicts with meeting times. I will be looking for something different if I affiliate with another lodge (s).


I am starting to get it better now from an active service standpoint.


----------



## Derinique Kendrick (Apr 6, 2016)

But if it's merely for fellowship purposes, why not just visit when you can? @MRichard


----------



## MRichard (Apr 6, 2016)

Sprout said:


> It might be to help another lodge from loosing there charter.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900V using My Freemasonry Pro mobile app



This is a good point. This is how some of the smaller lodges survive. They may not want to merge or go dark permanently.


----------



## hanzosbm (Apr 6, 2016)

Derinique Kendrick said:


> But, why not just hold membership in the one lodge you enjoy the most, and just VISIT or affiliate the others that you like?


Well, ongoing visitation is (at least in the jurisdictions I'm familiar with) a bit of faux pas.  It's like always showing up to other people's parties and eating their food without putting in.  Being a guest from time to time is fine, but you've got to be careful not to overstay your welcome.  As far as affiliation vs dual membership...what's the difference?


----------



## MRichard (Apr 6, 2016)

Derinique Kendrick said:


> But if it's merely for fellowship purposes, why not just visit when you can? @MRichard



Technically, you are only supposed to visit a limited # of times before affiliating. @Bill_Lins77488 would know for sure. It is not just fellowship. You are looking for something different. Some guys visit alot of lodges each month all over the state. They are looking for fellowship. Especially if they retired.


----------



## MRichard (Apr 6, 2016)

I think dual means another jurisdiction. Not sure. Plural is more than one in your jurisdiction.


----------



## Derinique Kendrick (Apr 6, 2016)

hanzosbm said:


> Well, ongoing visitation is (at least in the jurisdictions I'm familiar with) a bit of faux pas.  It's like always showing up to other people's parties and eating their food without putting in.  Being a guest from time to time is fine, but you've got to be careful not to overstay your welcome.  As far as affiliation vs dual membership...what's the difference?


as far as the affiliation vs dual membership, if it's the same thing pardon me. I figured affiliation would pretty much be the same as visiting more than actually holding membership in another lodge. I get your point to an extent though. If that is the case, when you visit (in another post I mentioned from time to time or when you want to, not necessarily each and every meeting night) let the WM or whomever know when you plan to come and arrange to contribute to the meal so that that idea of coming eating without putting in doesn't come up.


----------



## Derinique Kendrick (Apr 6, 2016)

MRichard said:


> I think dual means another jurisdiction. Not sure. Plural is more than one in your jurisdiction.


I'm not sure. The word I was looking for when I started this thread was indeed plural, I realized that after you mentioned it. Dual may or may not even be a real term. Like I said, I don't know much about it.


----------



## Derinique Kendrick (Apr 6, 2016)

MRichard said:


> Technically, you are only supposed to visit a limited # of times before affiliating. @Bill_Lins77488 would know for sure. It is not just fellowship. You are looking for something different. Some guys visit alot of lodges each month all over the state. They are looking for fellowship. Especially if they retired.


For clarification, If affiliating means actually joining that lodge pardon me as I didn't exactly know the usage of the term in that sense. But if its the same as visiting, you can't limit an amount a time someone else visits another lodge, can you?


----------



## Derinique Kendrick (Apr 6, 2016)

MRichard said:


> Technically, you are only supposed to visit a limited # of times before affiliating. @Bill_Lins77488 would know for sure. It is not just fellowship. You are looking for something different. Some guys visit alot of lodges each month all over the state. They are looking for fellowship. Especially if they retired.


But, can't you look for something different and get it from visits, without actually going through the joining process. Personally, my home lodge lacks a few things I am interested in. For what I am seeking more, I can just visit and fellowship with another lodge if it doesn't conflict with my normal meeting nights, right? Two birds in one stone in my eyes.


----------



## hanzosbm (Apr 6, 2016)

A few times, yes.  But eventually you'd want to join in order to support them.


----------



## Derinique Kendrick (Apr 6, 2016)

hanzosbm said:


> A few times, yes.  But eventually you'd want to join in order to support them.


You'd be supporting either way though, wouldn't you?


----------



## Derinique Kendrick (Apr 6, 2016)

By the way @hanzosbm & @MRichard, or any other brother who may be watching, for that matter. By no means am I trolling. Just trying to get a better viewpoint or see the need/purpose of doing so. Valid points for sure have been presented, but I feel as if all of that still can be done without having to actually join.


----------



## Derinique Kendrick (Apr 6, 2016)

Furthermore, after discussion with brothers who have gave their input thus far, I do see the benefits of doing so if said brother chooses to have plural membership. Wanted to make it clear that I do understand.


----------



## dfreybur (Apr 6, 2016)

Derinique Kendrick said:


> But, why not just hold membership in the one lodge you enjoy the most, and just VISIT or affiliate the others that you like?



Some lodges expect a petition to affiliate after a certain number of visits.  Other lodges welcome unlimited visits.  So it might be a clash of requirements.

Affiliation is full membership in all of my jurisdictions.

I took my degrees in my mother lodge.  I paid for a life/endowed membership.  I went through the line, experienced consolidations and I'm now a Past Master.  Why would I ever demit?  I'm at least as puzzled at the idea of single lodge membership as you are at multiple membership.  As it is if I ever show up at California GL I get to vote.  Since California GL is in San Francisco it's desirable for my wife as well as for me.  Plenty of tourist stuff in SF.

At one point we moved the Seattle metro.  I affiliated.  We didn't live there long enough to go through the line or purchase a life/endowed membership.  So when we moved out of state again I sent a demit.  I do get that sometimes it makes sense to demit when moving out of town.

Then we moved to Chicago.  I affiliated.  I went through the line again, experienced a consolidation again, purchased a life/endowed membership again.  Now I have a vote in Illinois GL if I go.  Demitting would give that up.

Which leads me to why I ended up having two Illinois memberships.  I got a job in a different part of the metro area.  I started attending a lodge on the way home form that work location.  I entered their degree team.  I delivered Masonic education talks at all of their Stated meetings.  After several years they voted me an Honorary membership.  Why would I ever demit from such a gift?

Now in Texas I'm going through the line again, predictably.  Once I'm PM and life/endowed member why should I ever demit.

Had I never left town I might never have been a member of more than one lodge.  My feet are too itchy for that.  Or they were.  We'll see at some point.


----------



## Derinique Kendrick (Apr 6, 2016)

dfreybur said:


> Some lodges expect a petition to affiliate after a certain number of visits.  Other lodges welcome unlimited visits.  So it might be a clash of requirements.
> 
> Affiliation is full membership in all of my jurisdictions.
> 
> ...


I got just one question for ya? Care to donate a life/endowed membership to a worthy brother? Do Ya? lol


----------



## Derinique Kendrick (Apr 6, 2016)

dfreybur said:


> Some lodges expect a petition to affiliate after a certain number of visits.  Other lodges welcome unlimited visits.  So it might be a clash of requirements.
> 
> Affiliation is full membership in all of my jurisdictions.
> 
> ...


Wow! Most definitely in your case it has greatly benefited you to be able to have such luxury!


----------



## dfreybur (Apr 6, 2016)

Derinique Kendrick said:


> Care to donate a life/endowed membership to a worthy brother?



The years I've been Junior Warden I worked out with the Sec that I could save up the grocery receipts across the year and instead of getting reimbursed the money would go to the endowment.  A couple of hundred per month during the year as JW was a significant stretch but it was a savings plan that worked for me.


----------



## MRichard (Apr 6, 2016)

Derinique Kendrick said:


> By the way @hanzosbm & @MRichard, or any other brother who may be watching, for that matter. By no means am I trolling. Just trying to get a better viewpoint or see the need/purpose of doing so. Valid points for sure have been presented, but I feel as if all of that still can be done without having to actually join.



I went to visit a relative so I know you are not trolling. You are not the first PHA brother to ask these questions and I am sure you won't be the last. I wish I could join a PHA lodge while still keeping my membership in my current grand lodge. One day, it might be possible. In some jurisdictions, it is.


----------



## MRichard (Apr 6, 2016)

Derinique Kendrick said:


> But, can't you look for something different and get it from visits, without actually going through the joining process. Personally, my home lodge lacks a few things I am interested in. For what I am seeking more, I can just visit and fellowship with another lodge if it doesn't conflict with my normal meeting nights, right? Two birds in one stone in my eyes.



It's different in your jurisdiction. Of course, you can visit other lodges and fellowship with the brothers. Unfortunately, if you find a lodge you really like, you would have to demit and join the other lodge. Is that right? Things vary by jurisdictions so it gets confusing.


----------



## MRichard (Apr 6, 2016)

Derinique Kendrick said:


> For clarification, If affiliating means actually joining that lodge pardon me as I didn't exactly know the usage of the term in that sense. But if its the same as visiting, you can't limit an amount a time someone else visits another lodge, can you?



Affiliating in my jurisdiction means joining a lodge. They have to vote on whether to accept you but if denied, you are still a master mason and you can try again unlike petitioning where you have to wait a certain length of time depending on how many black cubes you got.


----------



## Warrior1256 (Apr 6, 2016)

Shortly after being raised I was so impressed with one of the lodges that I visited and the people there that I wanted to be a member. Simple as that.


----------



## Bill Lins (Apr 7, 2016)

MRichard said:


> Technically, you are only supposed to visit a limited # of times before affiliating.


That only applies to an unaffiliated Mason, i.e. one who does not belong to _any_ Lodge. That's to prevent a Brother from visiting Lodges forever without paying dues anywhere. As to why have plural memberships- I've joined other Lodges because, in one instance, the new Lodge was very active in conferring degree work and I enjoy working in degrees. Another Lodge needed help and I was friends with many of the members there. I joined a third Lodge because of its unique history and because it is located in an area where I spent my teenage years. There are many more reasons a Brother might join multiple Lodges and, as long as he can afford to financially support his Lodges, I have no problem with it.


----------



## Derinique Kendrick (Apr 7, 2016)

dfreybur said:


> The years I've been Junior Warden I worked out with the Sec that I could save up the grocery receipts across the year and instead of getting reimbursed the money would go to the endowment.  A couple of hundred per month during the year as JW was a significant stretch but it was a savings plan that worked for me.


That's actually a really great plan. Glad it worked out for you! I'm sure you are too!


----------



## Derinique Kendrick (Apr 7, 2016)

Warrior1256 said:


> Shortly after being raised I was so impressed with one of the lodges that I visited and the people there that I wanted to be a member. Simple as that.


Fair enough!


----------



## Derinique Kendrick (Apr 7, 2016)

Bill_Lins77488 said:


> As to why have plural memberships- I've joined other Lodges because, in one instance, the new Lodge was very active in conferring degree work and I enjoy working in degrees. Another Lodge needed help and I was friends with many of the members there. I joined a third Lodge because of its unique history and because it is located in an area where I spent my teenage years. There are many more reasons a Brother might join multiple Lodges and, as long as he can afford to financially support his Lodges, I have no problem with it.


All great reasons! Thanks for your input, brother!


----------



## Brother JC (Apr 7, 2016)

jdmadsenCraterlake211 said:


> What i dont understand is when a brother joins multiple lodges in the same town.


I was a member of both 1 and 19. I found more of what I sought in 19, but 1 was my Mother and I wasn't ready to separate myself.


----------



## Ripcord22A (Apr 7, 2016)

Brother JC said:


> I was a member of both 1 and 19. I found more of what I sought in 19, but 1 was my Mother and I wasn't ready to separate myself.


Montezuma was the first lidge i went to here, it was a long drawn out business meeting.  I picked a terrible night to vist- finance comittee report, lodge elections, and a report on the roof contractor that bamboozled the lodge...the next week i went to Cerrillos(on Scott Js invatation)-great meal, presentation no bills and what not loved the small group feel.  Affiliated the next month.  Still go to Montezuma from time to time and under the direction of WM DeGiovanni its getting better but this last meeting the first 30min was the reading of 3 sets of minutes.  At cerrillos the minutes are emailed out to all the members a few days prior for our review, then if need be are discussed and accepted as emailed or ammended...also our bylaws allow for the secretary to just pay bills.  The meetings are always worthwhile. 

Sent from my LG-H811 using My Freemasonry Pro mobile app


----------



## Glen Cook (Apr 8, 2016)

jdmadsenCraterlake211 said:


> Montezuma was the first lidge i went to here, it was a long drawn out business meeting.  I picked a terrible night to vist- finance comittee report, lodge elections, and a report on the roof contractor that bamboozled the lodge...the next week i went to Cerrillos(on Scott Js invatation)-great meal, presentation no bills and what not loved the small group feel.  Affiliated the next month.  Still go to Montezuma from time to time and under the direction of WM DeGiovanni its getting better but this last meeting the first 30min was the reading of 3 sets of minutes.  At cerrillos the minutes are emailed out to all the members a few days prior for our review, then if need be are discussed and accepted as emailed or ammended...also our bylaws allow for the secretary to just pay bills.  The meetings are always worthwhile.
> 
> Sent from my LG-H811 using My Freemasonry Pro mobile app


Reading the minutes????????  I can't remember the last time I heard them read.


----------



## Ripcord22A (Apr 8, 2016)

Yeah.  There was another brother sitting next to me from my lodge and we were both looking at each other like "really?  Is he gonna word for word read the minutes?"

Sent from my LG-H811 using My Freemasonry Pro mobile app


----------



## Warrior1256 (Apr 8, 2016)

Bill_Lins77488 said:


> That only applies to an unaffiliated Mason, i.e. one who does not belong to _any_ Lodge. That's to prevent a Brother from visiting Lodges forever without paying dues anywhere.


Exactly. Here in Kentucky if you are a member of a lodge you can visit other lodges as many times as you like.


Glen Cook said:


> Reading the minutes???????? I can't remember the last time I heard them read.


They are read here at every meeting that I have been to.


----------



## Bill Lins (Apr 8, 2016)

We read the minutes of meetings held since & including those of the last stated meeting @ every stated meeting but we don't spend a lot of time doing it.


----------



## Ripcord22A (Apr 8, 2016)

See to me that is THE worst part of the meeting.  Id rather talk about bills.  At leatlst with those you can discuss ways to lower them.  The only discussion on minutes is " um i believe it was brother smith not brother doe who proposed that, or um its actually Right worshipful not just worshipful...." thats why we email them out so you can go over them before the meeting and then theres only that discussion...not 20min of reading them then discussion

Sent from my LG-H811 using My Freemasonry Pro mobile app


----------



## Warrior1256 (Apr 9, 2016)

Bill_Lins77488 said:


> We read the minutes of meetings held since & including those of the last stated meeting @ every stated meeting but we don't spend a lot of time doing it.


Same here.


----------



## Bill Lins (Apr 9, 2016)

jdmadsenCraterlake211 said:


> not 20min of reading them then discussion


*20 MINUTES?!?* Holy Cow! No wonder y'all figured something else out!  If we spend 3 minutes it was quite a busy month! Of course, *OUR* Secretary leaves out the crap like" The Worshipful Master led the Brethren in the Pledges of Allegiance to the flags of the United States of America and the Great State of Texas." Since that's done at EVERY meeting, we see no need to include it in the minutes.


----------



## Bloke (Apr 9, 2016)

jdmadsenCraterlake211 said:


> Montezuma was the first lidge i went to here, it was a long drawn out business meeting.  I picked a terrible night to vist- finance comittee report, lodge elections, and a report on the roof contractor that bamboozled the lodge...the next week i went to Cerrillos(on Scott Js invatation)-great meal, presentation no bills and what not loved the small group feel.  Affiliated the next month.  Still go to Montezuma from time to time and under the direction of WM DeGiovanni its getting better but this last meeting the first 30min was the reading of 3 sets of minutes.  At cerrillos the minutes are emailed out to all the members a few days prior for our review, then if need be are discussed and accepted as emailed or ammended...also our bylaws allow for the secretary to just pay bills.  The meetings are always worthwhile.



There is a simple message in the above. JD, visited a lodge which had drawn out business and another lodge which did not  - which lodge did he join ?

I'm always shocked when I go to a lodge a hear the minutes read. As WM, if they have not been circulated via email for some reason, unless there is something VERY critical (like confirmation of a vote), I have them put aside until next meeting. We can do that, or more to the point, there is nothing saying the minutes from the last meeting must be presented at the next. I am not going to let some sec (even a good one) burn our time because he has not got around to circulating the minutes...


----------



## Bill Lins (Apr 9, 2016)

Bloke said:


> I'm always shocked when I go to a lodge a hear the minutes read.


As you can see below, we are required under GLoTX Law to read the minutes of previous meetings at our stated meetings. As over half of our membership doesn't do email, there's no point in sending the minutes to those who do- we'd still have to read them regardless. As the requirement to read them is listed first in the Order of Business, I take it that they're serious about it.

_*Art. 333. Order of Business. *At stated meetings after opening of the Lodge in due and ancient form, a quorum being present, the Order of Business, unless otherwise ordered by the Lodge or the Worshipful Master, shall be as follows:
1. Reading, correcting and approval of Minutes of previous meetings._


----------



## Bloke (Apr 9, 2016)

Bill_Lins77488 said:


> As you can see below, we are required under GLoTX Law to read the minutes of previous meetings at our stated meetings. As over half of our membership doesn't do email, there's no point in sending the minutes to those who do- we'd still have to read them regardless. As the requirement to read them is listed first in the Order of Business, I take it that they're serious about it.
> 
> _*Art. 333. Order of Business. *At stated meetings after opening of the Lodge in due and ancient form, a quorum being present, the Order of Business, unless otherwise ordered by the Lodge or the Worshipful Master, shall be as follows:
> 1. Reading, correcting and approval of Minutes of previous meetings._



The order of business, unless otherwise ordered... hmm.. as WM I would give a *order *that the minutes be circulated by email or by post where necessary and taken as read. On my summons I'd have "Minutes". In in the minutes we would record "The minutes as circulated were adopted"



Bill_Lins77488 said:


> .....As over half of our membership doesn't do email, there's no point in sending the minutes to those who do- we'd still have to read them regardless._....._



Does that mean you have to post your summons ? Expensive.... and very wasteful....

People used to say that here... in a lodge of 40, we only have 3 without email.. we've lost a few older members in recent years, but every one of them had email. In my other lodge of about 45 - there is only one member without email. It is amazing how quickly people who "do not have email" will give you none when you explain it is costing the lodge $x to send it out OR a recent departure of a young brother(s) was because they didn't join Freemasonry to hear minutes and we can easily remove one obstacle in our way to success by you giving me an email address... Incentivize them in some way; 100 members x 50 cents = $50 x 11 meetings = $550 you could give to charity. 2 mins every meeting x 11 meetings = a 22 minute lecture on masonic education. It's boring... etc etc You need to look for the right levers to change this. I'm 44 year old. Nothing upsets me more than folk wasting my time. Every lodge renewal program says they same, don't waste members time on minutes... If my GL made me read minutes I'd have a motion in there so fast my head would spin.... but I would test rule 333 above, but you would need the support of the members to do that....

I hope your secretary reads at breakneck speed. Our business is already bad enough without adding such a useless waste of time to it... It also does not allow members to consider the minutes or have a personal record of what went on.

God. Sorry to say, but thank the GAOTU I am no longer subjected to Sec's reading minutes, reading minutes basically died out about 10 years ago here, and the lodges which kept reading their minutes tend to die. 

Darwinism is not survival of the fittest, it's survival of the most adaptable and adapting means change...

(you have no idea how the idea of listening to minutes has got my goat LOL).


----------



## dfreybur (Apr 10, 2016)

Bill_Lins77488 said:


> *20 MINUTES?!?* Holy Cow! No wonder y'all figured something else out!  If we spend 3 minutes it was quite a busy month!



It only seems to take 3+ minutes if the Secretary was out sick the month before and there were several degrees in the previous two month.  If it's taking 20 minutes to read the events of one previous month you'd better have discussed the three different offers that were received to buy your lodge building and its land!  (Been there, done that, got that tee shirt).



> Of course, *OUR* Secretary leaves out the crap like" The Worshipful Master led the Brethren in the Pledges of Allegiance to the flags of the United States of America and the Great State of Texas." Since that's done at EVERY meeting, we see no need to include it in the minutes.



It's not like I'm ever going to take up arms against Texas even if there's a revolution of some sort but I still find the double pledge strange.

Sort of like when there was an Order of Amaranth meeting in the room next to my mother lodge and the played both the Star Spangled Banner and O Canada on their piano to start their meetings.  In Los Angeles metro.  Kind of far from the Canadian border to get to that particular building.


----------



## Warrior1256 (Apr 10, 2016)

dfreybur said:


> It only seems to take 3+ minutes


Same here, we don't go over the minutes in detail.


----------



## Bill Lins (Apr 11, 2016)

Bloke said:


> The order of business, unless otherwise ordered... hmm.. as WM I would give a *order *that the minutes be circulated by email or by post where necessary and taken as read. On my summons I'd have "Minutes". In in the minutes we would record "The minutes as circulated were adopted"



You just might get tarred & feathered if you tried that here. Masters (and prospective Masters) need to keep foremost in their minds that they hold their positions in order to *serve* the Craft, not order them around. Much better to find out what the members desire and provide it.



Bloke said:


> Does that mean you have to post your summons ? Expensive.... and very wasteful....



No- the only time "summons" are sent are in the event of a special emergency called meeting. In the 17 years I've been in the Lodge, we've never had one. I send out an agenda by email for each meeting & in the event of something out of the ordinary, I call those Brethren who don't have email & advise them of the circumstances.



Bloke said:


> I hope your secretary reads at breakneck speed.



Not really. I *ARE* the Secretary and it rarely, if ever, takes more than a couple of minutes to get through them unless discussion is desired, such as in the case of unfinished business.


----------



## Bill Lins (Apr 11, 2016)

dfreybur said:


> It's not like I'm ever going to take up arms against Texas even if there's a revolution of some sort but I still find the double pledge strange.



You've been here long enough to have learned that Texans don't much care what you furriners consider strange.


----------



## Bloke (Apr 11, 2016)

Hi Bro Sec Bill 



Bill_Lins77488 said:


> You just might get tarred & feathered if you tried that here. Masters (and prospective Masters) need to keep foremost in their minds that they hold their positions in order to *serve* the Craft, not order them around. Much better to find out what the members desire and provide it.



I agree. It's the same here. I've seen members boycott a lodge for a year because of a bossy master... If you do not have the respect of your members you can't do anything meaningful nor bring the team together...  If you try to be autocratic, you'll generally get no where. I know, I've done things like get my lodge to permanently change the night it has met since foundation, it took 2 minutes in lodge to do, and only because the "Old Statesmen" of the lodge stood up to say how wonderful it was. Those 2 minutes took months to set up.... I used the word "order" in the sense of exploiting the wording in the Const to avoid having the minutes read.. I think you could legitimately take them as read if the members had got a copy before...

That said, I've seen those sitting in the East give orders in the true sense, I've given them, and I had to follow them, and willingly. The trick having a master with social capital and good clear goals which allow him to do such a thing when needed... but it is very rare and better to say "decision" or "determination" rather than order...

At the end of the day, a Master is actually the *real* Head Steward of the lodge, there to serve, anticipate problems, shepherd the lodge  and create the conditions towards success.

Serving the craft does not mean being a  lemming, and many GL's and PMs sometimes expect that..... just like being a Master or GM does not make you God... at the end of the day, you're leading volunteers, do a bad job and they will walk (or they might stay and be the last members your lodge ever  has LOL). If you want to know how to run a lodge well, my advice is ask a successful combat infantry commander who's been in the hot zone for a while but also served as a staff officer and done well in both rolls; they always give the best education on how to lead a lodge..


----------



## acjohnson53 (Apr 11, 2016)

What's the purpose of dual membership?You getting the same stuff. Don't make know sense to be a member of two different Blue Lodges???


----------



## Bloke (Apr 11, 2016)

acjohnson53 said:


> What's the purpose of dual membership?You getting the same stuff. Don't make know sense to be a member of two different Blue Lodges???



When I was a MM, esp a deacon,  I got to act in more than once lodge at once - which really skilled me up. At the moment, I am ADC (assist director of ceremonies) in two lodge which again is skilling me up (although I've ended up acting as DC in one).

Double meetings. Double rehearsal. Two sets of PMs to learn from. Two sets of leadership teams to observe.... two sets of friends - being in two lodges has been great for me.... and I think I've been able to make great contributions in both.

Shortly after taking JD, I've always been involved in other lodges... supporting one for years as IG because they needed me, being a honourary member in another and not taking office but filling any gap (except chaplain because I've never learned the work..which is a bit naughty because I should know it)...

I decline offers of honourary membership nowdays. Two lodges have chased me already this year - mainly again because of the skills I strengthened being a member of two lodges, but now I make them my main focus and only have  couple of other lodges I regularly put my hand up to do work in...


----------



## Derinique Kendrick (Apr 11, 2016)

Bloke said:


> Double meetings. Double rehearsal. Two sets of PMs to learn from. Two sets of leadership teams to observe.... two sets of friends - being in two lodges has been great for me.... and I think I've been able to make great contributions in both.


Great way to put it! Definitely a way to increase learning and gain more friends.


----------



## Ripcord22A (Apr 11, 2016)

acjohnson53 said:


> What's the purpose of dual membership?You getting the same stuff. Don't make know sense to be a member of two different Blue Lodges???


See my posts in this thread...also *no....lol

Sent from my LG-H811 using My Freemasonry Pro mobile app


----------



## dfreybur (Apr 11, 2016)

Bill_Lins77488 said:


> You've been here long enough to have learned that Texans don't much care what you furriners consider strange.



Exactly.  Of course the feeling is mutual and friendly.

I don't consider strange to equal bad.  I'm aware that humans are herd animals so most want to be in the middle of the herd, but in some particular or another all of us are unlike the herd enough to be strange at something.


----------



## dfreybur (Apr 11, 2016)

acjohnson53 said:


> What's the purpose of dual membership?



There's no way I'm ever going to demit from a lodge where I've been through the line.



> You getting the same stuff.



Sounds like you've never even visited within your own state.  Every lodge is different and every jurisdiction is different.


----------



## Bloke (Apr 11, 2016)

dfreybur said:


> There's no way I'm ever going to demit from a lodge where I've been through the line.



Yep, I hear you brother ! Thank goodness it is only two lodges and I am not in other orders... as a PM I feel a special responsibility to support the lodge and its members... giving back what it gave me...


----------



## Warrior1256 (Apr 11, 2016)

Bill_Lins77488 said:


> You just might get tarred & feathered if you tried that here. Masters (and prospective Masters) need to keep foremost in their minds that they hold their positions in order to *serve* the Craft, not order them around. Much better to find out what the members desire and provide it.


Very true!


Bill_Lins77488 said:


> it rarely, if ever, takes more than a couple of minutes to get through them unless discussion is desired, such as in the case of unfinished business.


Exactly. As I said, we don't go into detail, just a brief summary.


----------



## Warrior1256 (Apr 11, 2016)

Bloke said:


> Double meetings. Double rehearsal. Two sets of PMs to learn from. Two sets of leadership teams to observe.... two sets of friends - being in two lodges has been great for me.... and I think I've been able to make great contributions in both.


Great answer brother!


dfreybur said:


> There's no way I'm ever going to demit from a lodge where I've been through the line.





dfreybur said:


> Sounds like you've never even visited within your own state. Every lodge is different and every jurisdiction is different.


Two more great answers.


----------



## Bill Lins (Apr 11, 2016)

acjohnson53 said:


> What's the purpose of dual membership?You getting the same stuff. Don't make know sense to be a member of two different Blue Lodges???


You might go back & re-read post #34.


----------



## Bill Lins (Apr 11, 2016)

dfreybur said:


> Of course the feeling is mutual and friendly.


Yeah, but you HERE- we AIN'T there!


----------



## acjohnson53 (Apr 11, 2016)

I have visited several Lodges, did Degree work as well, some were different some were the same..Traveled outside my Jurisdiction some different some the same..I don't judge, I just go with the flow..


----------



## Sammcd (Apr 29, 2016)

Sprout said:


> It might be to help another lodge from loosing there charter.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900V using My Freemasonry Pro mobile app


This was my reason.


----------



## Warrior1256 (Apr 30, 2016)

acjohnson53 said:


> I have visited several Lodges, did Degree work as well, some were different some were the same..Traveled outside my Jurisdiction some different some the same..I don't judge, I just go with the flow..


Same here.


----------



## CLewey44 (May 1, 2016)

Derinique Kendrick said:


> This doesn't pertain to me, but it is just a question I am asking out of curiosity. Is there a purpose for dual lodge membership? I guess what I am trying to ask is, what would be some of the reasons a brother joins multiple lodges.



I haven't read most of the other responses to your question, but I joined my father's lodge as my "second" lodge to basically help it out. It is an old lodge and its membership is dwindling. Also, I'm the 4th generation of Leweys to be a member of  that lodge. So really it's just for personal/nostalgic reasons. I don't know how long, however, I'll continue to do that since I've never even visited the lodge. Also, around here we have what's call a Traditional Observance Lodge that I've considered joining. The reason for that is simply having a different experience altogether in lodge. I know I could just visit and that'd be completely legal but I couldn't vote or be an officer in that lodge or really participate by bringing anything I felt I could bring to the table.


----------



## Ripcord22A (May 1, 2016)

My lodge here in NM is the first TO lodge in NM.  Its awesome

Sent from my LG-H811 using My Freemasonry Pro mobile app


----------



## babyjo (May 2, 2016)

I am a plural Lodge member. I was made a Mason in New Jersey. I now live in New York. I would never think to demit from my Mother Lodge as they are responsible for Raising me. It is for this reason that I am a plural (dual ) member. I use the term 'plural' because I know many Brothers who affiliate with more than two Lodges. Especially with those who Travel to other states for work or to visit family. My daughter lives in Illinois. I have considered affiliating with a Lodge near her, in addition to the two Lodges to which I already belong. In order to joint he Royal Arch Chapter here in NY, I had to be a member of a New York Lodge. That is another reason for plural membership. This happens to retirees a lot. They will stay current at their Mother Lodge, but perhaps they moved elsewhere when they retired. There is a member of my Lodge with whom I have Traveled to Cuba. He is a permanent member of the Lodge down there, because he visits so frequently.


----------



## dfreybur (May 2, 2016)

CLewey44 said:


> Also, I'm the 4th generation of Leweys to be a member of  that lodge. So really it's just for personal/nostalgic reasons.



Spell and/or pronounce your name slightly difference and man are you ever.  Lewis - A Mason whose father is a Mason, ideally his father raised him in his third degree.


----------



## Bloke (May 3, 2016)

dfreybur said:


> Spell and/or pronounce your name slightly difference and man are you ever.  Lewis - A Mason whose father is a Mason, ideally his father raised him in his third degree.




Here, a Lewis is a son *or nephew* of a Freemason who's been initiated.


----------



## Ripcord22A (May 3, 2016)

HMMMM....never heard that term before


----------



## dfreybur (May 3, 2016)

jdmadsenCraterlake211 said:


> HMMMM....never heard that term before



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lewis_(lifting_appliance)

See the illustration near the bottom for St Peter's Key.


----------



## Ripcord22A (May 3, 2016)

dfreybur said:


> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lewis_(lifting_appliance)
> 
> See the illustration near the bottom for St Peter's Key.


 how does that apply to freemasonry though?


----------



## dfreybur (May 3, 2016)

The lewis was a tool of operative Masonry to lift carved stones to their final locations in the buildings.

Lewis is the speculative term for a Mason whose father is also a Mason. The more generations back the more levels.  Illinois has a nice Lewis badge that can be extended for any number of generations of names.

It's symbolic.  Ideally the father is there at the raising to whisper the word or at least to physically participate in the physical lifting part.  Notice that the generations work in the opposite order operative to speculative.  Maybe it used to refer more to attendance at Masonic funerals than at raisings.

I figure it also has some allusion to the position of hands and limbs during the raising.


----------



## Ripcord22A (May 3, 2016)

I guess im dense...i don't see how that tool/term applies to the son of a mason......

Sent from my LG-H811 using My Freemasonry Pro mobile app


----------



## Bloke (May 3, 2016)

jdmadsenCraterlake211 said:


> I guess im dense...i don't see how that tool/term applies to the son of a mason......
> 
> Sent from my LG-H811 using My Freemasonry Pro mobile app



It's often spoken about in the context of a lewis (the mason) supporting (lifting) parents in their old age through financial and other support.


----------



## Warrior1256 (May 4, 2016)

Bloke said:


> It's often spoken about in the context of a lewis (the mason) supporting (lifting) parents in their old age through financial and other support.


Interesting! I hadn't heard this before.


----------



## Glen Cook (May 4, 2016)

http://nymasons.org/2016/masters-projects-programs__trashed/lewis-jewel/


----------



## Warrior1256 (May 5, 2016)

Glen Cook said:


> http://nymasons.org/2016/masters-projects-programs__trashed/lewis-jewel/


Great!


----------



## Ripcord22A (May 5, 2016)

See what i dont get is why the father isnt called the lewis as hes the one doing the lifting?

Sent from my LG-H811 using My Freemasonry Pro mobile app


----------



## Glen Cook (May 5, 2016)

jdmadsenCraterlake211 said:


> See what i dont get is why the father isnt called the lewis as hes the one doing the lifting?
> 
> Sent from my LG-H811 using My Freemasonry Pro mobile app


Because at the point of entry into the fraternity, the son is nearing up his father in his old age?


----------



## Bloke (May 5, 2016)

jdmadsenCraterlake211 said:


> See what i dont get is why the father isnt called the lewis as hes the one doing the lifting?
> 
> Sent from my LG-H811 using My Freemasonry Pro mobile app



I am sure many fathers have wondered the same ! LOL... but I guess, as Glenn says, being at least 18 yo, the traditional view is a man has a duty to look after his parents...


----------



## MarkR (May 6, 2016)

jdmadsenCraterlake211 said:


> See what i dont get is why the father isnt called the lewis as hes the one doing the lifting?
> 
> Sent from my LG-H811 using My Freemasonry Pro mobile app


The lewis doesn't lift, the block and tackle do.  The lewis is a passive device that the block and tackle attach to so the stone can be lifted.


----------



## Bloke (May 6, 2016)

MarkR said:


> The lewis doesn't lift, the block and tackle do.  The lewis is a passive device that the block and tackle attach to so the stone can be lifted.


True. So, why  do you think the connection ?


----------



## Ripcord22A (May 6, 2016)

MarkR said:


> The lewis doesn't lift, the block and tackle do.  The lewis is a passive device that the block and tackle attach to so the stone can be lifted.


Ok...that just makes.my question if not more so then just as valid....if the block is what is being lifted(candidate) amd the lewis is what the attaches to the stone and allows it to be lifted...why is the father not called the lewis....

Sent from my LG-H811 using My Freemasonry Pro mobile app


----------



## Ripcord22A (May 6, 2016)

Here is something offered from a brother from my lodge...
"Maybe it's not so much the father acting as the lewis tool to the son, rather it's the son lifting the fraternity up through his dedication to Freemasonry."
And "If the father has traveled from youth to old age, from rough ashlar to perfect ashlar, then the son is moving his father's perfect ashlar into position as the crowning achievement of his father's work. "

Both of these make sense to me

Sent from my LG-H811 using My Freemasonry Pro mobile app


----------

