# JW Reading the Law



## Wingnut (Sep 4, 2009)

How often does your JW read a passage from the Masonic Law book?


----------



## Bill Lins (Sep 4, 2009)

See "Spanked" thread...


----------



## HKTidwell (Sep 4, 2009)

All I pulled up was Mancow when I did a search for that topic :S


----------



## Scotty32 (Sep 4, 2009)

Its in our by-laws the I read an article every stated meeting. Its a great idea.


----------



## RedTemplar (Sep 4, 2009)

Once in a great while, the WM will read a passage from the constitution. I agree with Texas on this issue. If subordinate lodges will not take it upon themselves to learn or be reminded of their duties and responsibilities, then the Grand Lodge should mandate it. If not the JW, maybe the JS or some younger member of the lodge could be charged to perform such reading.


----------



## JBD (Sep 4, 2009)

One of my Lodges does the other does not (have JW read each meeting)


----------



## Bill Lins (Sep 5, 2009)

HKTidwell said:


> All I pulled up was Mancow when I did a search for that topic :S



We'll discuss Mancow later this morning!


----------



## JTM (Sep 5, 2009)

it's in the WM's charge at installation that he cause the lawbook to be read during his meetings.


----------



## Bill Lins (Sep 5, 2009)

RedTemplar said:


> If not the JW, maybe the JS or some younger member of the lodge could be charged to perform such reading.



Bro. Red, Texas GL gives the JW charge of our Law in each Lodge & furnishes each new JW a copy of our Law Book free of charge (!).


----------



## RedTemplar (Sep 5, 2009)

Bill_Lins77488 said:


> Bro. Red, Texas GL gives the JW charge of our Law in each Lodge & furnishes each new JW a copy of our Law Book free of charge (!).



That would be"lodgical" since the JW is also the DA.


----------



## rhitland (Sep 6, 2009)

I will let 148's JW respond to this one!


----------



## Blake Bowden (Sep 7, 2009)

Bill_Lins77488 said:


> furnishes each new JW a copy of our Law Book free of charge (!).



I think I'll be WM by the time I receive a copy.


----------



## scottmh59 (Sep 7, 2009)

rhitland said:


> I will let 148's JW respond to this one!



i did...i was the first to vote....our JW can read?


----------



## Wingnut (Sep 8, 2009)

Interesting... over half dont read at every meeting.  Sounds about right for the number that dont do the Candidate Information program, ALL and LIFE.


----------



## Blake Bowden (Sep 8, 2009)

Wingnut said:


> Interesting... over half dont read at every meeting.  Sounds about right for the number that dont do the Candidate Information program, ALL and LIFE.



Yup


----------



## owls84 (Sep 9, 2009)

Wingnut said:


> Interesting... over half dont read at every meeting.  Sounds about right for the number that dont do the Candidate Information program, ALL and LIFE.



Well here is my question, does this need to be read EVERY meeting? I would say not really. I know some people that when you begain reading from the law book they get "sleepy head". I also know that there is some things people just won't listen to even if you tell them. I know at least in my Lodges if you read from the Law book you may just be speaking Greek. I say get people together who enjoy it then run through hypotheticals just like we do here and sit around a table when others asre working on floor school. Make it fun like a trivia game or something. 

Just some more brain storming. I just remember the glazed look some people give when you try to read or quote the law. I actually had a member come a tell me, "I get "sleepy head" when you do that."


----------



## rhitland (Sep 9, 2009)

I know we did for a while in our Lodge then it died out. Funny thing is all I can hear in my head right now is that quote from Tombstone when that bad guy was sashing Wyatt Earp saying "Law don't go around here, savy Kansas law dog?" Just seems it has become a pick and choose book.


----------



## TCShelton (Sep 10, 2009)

rhitland said:


> Just seems it has become a pick and choose book.



+1.


----------



## Wingnut (Sep 11, 2009)

Sadly I cant find it in the law book that its required, but Ive been told numerous times it is.  I cant help but wonder, if we pick and chose which customs, ideas, traditions we follow and observe how long will Masonry be Masonry as it was intended?


----------



## JBD (Sep 11, 2009)

Wingnut said:


> Sadly I cant find it in the law book that its required, but Ive been told numerous times it is.  I cant help but wonder, if we pick and chose which customs, ideas, traditions we follow and observe how long will Masonry be Masonry as it was intended?



****THE FOLLOWING COMMENTS ARE NOT DESIGNED TO BE POINTED AT ANYONE ON THIS SITE****

I conversely wonder if we pound on all those who do not know everything instead of instructing; if we judge those whom we have not set in Lodge with; we "report" him or them whom we hear to be not following every jot and tittle instead of investigating and nuturing, then how long it will be until Masonry returns to what is was intended - a brotherhood a fraternity.

I am more concerned that we are putting the "law" above the obligation and promises we made one to another to the point that we stifle the life out of Lodges.  Ask some of those who have been on the receiving end in the past few years.

It is a bit like getting hit going through an intersection with a green light while knowing the other guy is running the red and going to hit you. You had the "right of way"  you were "RIGHT" in your position - unfortunately he was going 70 mph and you ended up "dead right".  The final result is there was an impact and you could have avoided it by just applying some common sense.


----------



## Wingnut (Sep 11, 2009)

JBD said:


> I am more concerned that we are putting the "law" above the obligation and promises we made one to another to the point that we stifle the life out of Lodges.  Ask some of those who have been on the receiving end in the past few years.



The law SHOULD be a continuation of the obligations we made and a way to keep order instead of chaos.  The law, just as Grand Lodge, is not some mystical creature, but is US.  The Past Masters, current Masters and Wardens make the law.  If they are bad then we need to get them changed.  I sure know its not easy or fast but...  Using the ALL program as an example it was passed that all lodges should administer it to all newly raised MM.  Im sure most did for a year or so.  Now its outdated and seldom done or enforced.  IMHO it needs to be either updated or removed.  There is some good information there once you weed past the outdated things.  GL recently sent out a communication about reporting charitable deeds.  Why hasnt this been done since it was declared "Mandatory" several years back?



JBD said:


> It is a bit like getting hit going through an intersection with a green light while knowing the other guy is running the red and going to hit you. You had the "right of way"  you were "RIGHT" in your position - unfortunately he was going 70 mph and you ended up "dead right".  The final result is there was an impact and you could have avoided it by just applying some common sense.



Bad analogy Brother...   My wife, daughter and grandson got hit by someone like that last night that said they werent from around here and didnt see the light... WTF!  You dont stop on red where your from?  All there were taken to the ER by ambulance.  Luckily other than a few bumps, bruises, cuts and dislocations and sprains they are fine and all home.  Safe and sore.  But thats 2 cars I own that have been totaled in the last 3 weeks!!!


----------



## HKTidwell (Sep 11, 2009)

JBD said:


> I am more concerned that we are putting the "law" above the obligation and promises we made one to another to the point that we stifle the life out of Lodges.  Ask some of those who have been on the receiving end in the past few years.



I guess I took the meaning of this a bit different.  Perhaps JBD can better explain how he meant it but the way I took this statement is as follows.  I can either spend my time taking care of the obligation as it may come to my attention.  Or I can spend the same time that I would have given to the relief of a brother, pouring over the "Law" to determine what my brothers are doing wrong.  If I'm wrong in my interpretation JBD please forgive me.  The law is supposed to add to the lodge and not distract from the growth.  We can make the law a good or bad thing.  Also on the ALL program, and any other programs which may have been instituted but not updated, if we have  a mandate about using these programs and yet they are not updated then we are doing ourselves more harm then good.  In my humble opinion.



Wingnut said:


> My wife, daughter and grandson got hit by someone like that last night that said they werent from around here and didnt see the light... WTF!  You dont stop on red where your from?  All there were taken to the ER by ambulance.  Luckily other than a few bumps, bruises, cuts and dislocations and sprains they are fine and all home.  Safe and sore.  But thats 2 cars I own that have been totaled in the last 3 weeks!!!



Glad your family is doing good.  Were you in wreck?


----------



## Wingnut (Sep 11, 2009)

Thank you.  No I wasnt in it I was on my way from work to a lodge when I got the call.


----------



## JBD (Sep 11, 2009)

Wingnut said:


> The law SHOULD be a continuation of the obligations we made and a way to keep order instead of chaos.  The law, just as Grand Lodge, is not some mystical creature, but is US.  The Past Masters, current Masters and Wardens make the law.  If they are bad then we need to get them changed.  I sure know its not easy or fast but...  Using the ALL program as an example it was passed that all lodges should administer it to all newly raised MM.  Im sure most did for a year or so.  Now its outdated and seldom done or enforced.  IMHO it needs to be either updated or removed.  There is some good information there once you weed past the outdated things.  GL recently sent out a communication about reporting charitable deeds.  Why hasnt this been done since it was declared "Mandatory" several years back?
> 
> 
> 
> Bad analogy Brother...   My wife, daughter and grandson got hit by someone like that last night that said they werent from around here and didnt see the light... WTF!  You dont stop on red where your from?  All there were taken to the ER by ambulance.  Luckily other than a few bumps, bruises, cuts and dislocations and sprains they are fine and all home.  Safe and sore.  But thats 2 cars I own that have been totaled in the last 3 weeks!!!




Wingnut - first of all I am VERY happy your family is OK.  Cars and stuff can be replaced - people not so much.  We have neighbors who are dealing with the other scenario literally as I type this.  Prayers for the family of Alex Wilson would be in order.  He grew up with my daughter and he crashed his car about 24 hours ago and is on life support in Fort Worth.



Now to your points - Yes I agree it should be a continuation of the obligations - I wasn't arguing that simply that some would rather beat you with the law book than tap you on the shoulder and whisper information. Thanks for making my point with your specific examples.

The analogy is totally accurate - the timing may suck given what you have been through, but the analogy is still spot on.


----------



## owls84 (Sep 11, 2009)

So I was sitting to a Masters Degree and we were doing the Lecture and the Sybolism of the star came up and I thought of this very thing. I totally agree with helping each other along the way but you have to admit that everyone that just because the person has a dues card makes them a Mason. Your heart has to be in it and I know many people that don't. 

There have been times I have been discouraged by a "Mason" but "Masonry" has yet to let me down. Bros. Rhit, Tom, Scott, Anthony, Pace, Lester 1 & 2, Brock, and many many others show me that constantly.  It is hard to keep the two seperated. All I can say is keep on keeping on. Do what you enjoy and others will take note.


----------



## Bill Lins (Sep 11, 2009)

Wingnut said:


> Sadly I cant find it in the law book that its required, but Ive been told numerous times it is.



It's in the the duties of the Worshipful Master in the installation ceremony.

"The Book of Constitutions you are to search at all times. Cause it to be read in your Lodge, that none may pretend to ignorance of the excellent precepts it enjoins."



Wingnut said:


> I cant help but wonder, if we pick and chose which customs, ideas, traditions we follow and observe how long will Masonry be Masonry as it was intended?



Someone earlier said the obligation should take precedence over the Law. I guess they took a different one than I did. In mine, I swore to obey the Law in its entirety- not just the parts I liked or agreed with.


----------



## owls84 (Sep 12, 2009)

*Disclaimer: The following statements are made for the sake of discussion and education. It does not necessarily reflect the views of the person making the inquiry.​*


Bill_Lins77488 said:


> "The Book of Constitutions you are to search at all times. Cause it to be read in your Lodge, that none may pretend to ignorance of the excellent precepts it enjoins."
> 
> Someone earlier said the obligation should take precedence over the Law. I guess they took a different one than I did. In mine, I swore to obey the Law in its entirety- not just the parts I liked or agreed with.



1) If that was a literal translation would that not be only the 5 pages of The Constitutions that happens to be in the Law book and not the actual Laws? Could one make that argument? 

2) Does the obligation not cover the "Charges of a Freemason" and that cover "Moral Law"? 
*CONCERNING GOD AND RELIGION. â€“* _A Mason is obliged by his tenure to obey the moral law_, and if he rightly understands the art, he will never be a stupid Atheist, nor an irreligious Libertine.​
Could GL Law possibly condradict Moral Law thus allowing the GL Law not to be followed? (I know this would be very far fetched but I actually could see charges being brought up and this being a deffense as to why a Law may not be followed.)


----------



## Bill Lins (Sep 12, 2009)

owls84 said:


> 1) If that was a literal translation would that not be only the 5 pages of The Constitutions that happens to be in the Law book and not the actual Laws? Could one make that argument?



Both times I was installed as WM, the Installing Marshal lifted the entire Law book when the Installing Officer said "The Book of Constitutions...". I'm thinkin' he was referring to the entire book & not just a part or 2 of it. YMMV.



owls84 said:


> 2) Does the obligation not cover the "Charges of a Freemason" and that cover "Moral Law"?



I think it does.



owls84 said:


> Could GL Law possibly condradict Moral Law thus allowing the GL Law not to be followed? (I know this would be very far fetched but I actually could see charges being brought up and this being a deffense as to why a Law may not be followed.)



I think (& I would hope) that our system, as inefficient as it sometimes seems to be, would work to prevent a law from being passed that would contradict Moral Law. There's a lot of reviewing that happens between the time a proposed resolution arrives at GL and when it comes to the floor to be voted on. :beer:


----------



## Chaplin the Elder (Sep 13, 2009)

JTM said:


> it's in the WM's charge at installation that he cause the lawbook to be read during his meetings.



It is in the WM's charge at installation and is very important.  I have seen lodges where no one seemed to know what was allowed and what was not.  Including Past Masters of the lodge.  

As is the case when something like this happens we are at the mercy of perhaps one or two people in the lodge who can then decide what can and can not be done by a lodge.  Having witnessed this and the discord and lack of harmony in the lodge room caused by the lack of light amongst the brethren and the perversion of law by someone with his own agenda to follow I heartily recommend that JW read (he is the lodge attorney) from the Book of Constitutions at each and every meeting.


----------



## owls84 (Sep 13, 2009)

This is a good point Bro. Chaplin (Elder). My question is since not everyone enjoys the Law or even understands how to read it. Could it be better serve if a Lodge had a workshop on how to read the laws to better understand them and perform administrative duties? I just worry that if we just read just to read we are not doing any good. I envision a floor school with hypoteticals and what ifs to better prepare the officers and stage situations and see how to act and have the JW say "Stop, this is how the Law says this situation should be handled." 

I just worry that we have become complacent in just doing the minimum and doing things that don't work or that are not as effective when with a little brainstorming and effort we can knock it out of the park. Who is to say 10 years there may be a group to come up with a better method. Would you agree?


----------



## Chaplin the Elder (Sep 13, 2009)

HKTidwell said:


> I guess I took the meaning of this a bit different.  Perhaps JBD can better explain how he meant it but the way I took this statement is as follows.  I can either spend my time taking care of the obligation as it may come to my attention.  Or I can spend the same time that I would have given to the relief of a brother, pouring over the "Law" to determine what my brothers are doing wrong.



I don't think that is what he meant.  

We read the law during the meeting, not to determine what is being done wrong, but to inform the brothers of what is correct.  If we do not know what the law is how can we, as leaders of the craft, set them to work with good and wholesome instruction?  

Having said that I pose the question; If the brothers are not conversant with the law how will they know if a brother is perverting the law for his own agenda?  

Yes, I know that this is not supposed to happen, but I have seen it all too often in the last few years.  It only takes one brother doing this to ruin and destroy a lodge.  



> The law is supposed to add to the lodge and not distract from the growth.  We can make the law a good or bad thing.



My point exactly, if you use the law to point out every thing a brother is doing wrong then you become part of the disharmony of the lodge room.  But, if you use the opportunity of reading the law to the brethren then they will help make sure that it is not perverted for someone else's agenda.


----------



## Chaplin the Elder (Sep 13, 2009)

owls84 said:


> This is a good point Bro. Chaplin (Elder). My question is since not everyone enjoys the Law or even understands how to read it. Could it be better serve if a Lodge had a workshop on how to read the laws to better understand them and perform administrative duties?



Point taken.  Administrative duties are usually in the realm of the secretary. Because he is usually in office for a number of years he becomes, if we let him, de facto "authority" on the law.  I have seen this lead to a secretary following his own agenda and causing disharmony within the lodge.  All  because brothers did not know the law. 



> I just worry that if we just read just to read we are not doing any good.



I would not agree with that.  I have had brothers come to me after a meeting and tell me that they did not know that the law on a particular subject and were surprised at what had been allowed by so-called knowledgeable brothers.  

If we don't educate our brothers then how will they know if the laws are being circumvented for a brother's own gain?  Again, I have seen this happen all too  often in some lodges. 




> ... I just worry that we have become complacent in just doing the minimum and doing things that don't work or that are not as effective when with a little brainstorming and effort we can knock it out of the park. Who is to say 10 years there may be a group to come up with a better method. Would you agree?



You are correct.  But we have to start somewhere.  If we can educate the brothers on what is correct, according to law, then we can move forward, stop some of the archaic bickering and nay-sayers and lead ourselves, our brothers, our lodges, and eventually, our Grand Lodge into positive growth. 

And isn't that one of the purposes of Masonry? 

IMHO


----------



## owls84 (Sep 13, 2009)

I like the view point.


----------



## JBD (Sep 13, 2009)

Well I think I explained what I meant, but I will try again.  I never said the Obligation superceeded the Law, what I did say is that the Law does not superceed the obligation.  They are part and parcel of one another.  What I said in a later post was that instead of beating over someone over the head with the LAW book as the manner of some is, perhaps a tap on the shoulder and more restrained word to a Brother would be much more pleasant, much more congenial and effective PLUS would lead to more harmony.  

My obligation says I will ST and I do that.  I also will freely admit I do not have the law memorized and internalized like I do the obligation.  It has also become clear through this discussion that the JW is NOT required to read the law in every meeting. It has also become clear that the directive is in the charge to the Master and not a "LAW" per se with article and section directed to it (and before someone jumps me about the charge having the same weight, that is not my point just there is no specific law).  There is NO requirement for every meeting, no directive that the JW be the one to perform it, but rather the Master cause it to be read regularly.  It would appear to me we have people pushing traditions versus requirements.

One thing discussion has done is caused me to read the LAW more and more often.  It has also shown me that for some legalistic manuvering may be their preferred manner to deal with issues when common sense and civility may be in order to help improve a brother in Masonry; remembering we need to approach our brothers from where they are in their journey and knowledge - not from where we think we are.

I think I clarified what I meant so either agree, disagree or flame on.


----------



## Chaplin the Elder (Sep 13, 2009)

JBD said:


> Well I think I explained what I meant, but I will try again.  I never said the Obligation superceeded the Law, what I did say is that the Law does not superceed the obligation.  They are part and parcel of one another. ...



Good point. 



> ... What I said in a later post was that instead of beating over someone over the head with the LAW book as the manner of some is, perhaps a tap on the shoulder and more restrained word to a Brother would be much more pleasant, much more congenial and effective PLUS would lead to more harmony.  ...



Another good point.  However I submit there are some brothers who, unless you show them in print, chapter and verse, will insist on continuing causing disharmony in the lodge based on faulty or false information pertaining to law. 



> ...My obligation says I will ST and I do that.  I also will freely admit I do not have the law memorized and internalized like I do the obligation. ...



I find the brothers who do (or should IMHO) have the law memorized, et.al. are usually PMs, sitting Masters, or brothers who have, for one reason or another, been involved in legal (Masonic) wrangling within the lodge. 



> ... It has also become clear through this discussion that the JW is NOT required to read the law in every meeting. It has also become clear that the directive is in the charge to the Master and not a "LAW" per se with article and section directed to it (and before someone jumps me about the charge having the same weight, that is not my point just there is no specific law).  There is NO requirement for every meeting, no directive that the JW be the one to perform it, but rather the Master cause it to be read regularly.  It would appear to me we have people pushing traditions versus requirements. ...



True, there is no specific law that I can find.  Having the JW read it, as opposed to another brother has value as he is the attorney for the lodge and should start to become (if he has not already done so) familiar with this part of his duties and preparation for his eventual trip to the East .  



> ... One thing discussion has done is caused me to read the LAW more and more often.  It has also shown me that for some legalistic manuvering may be their preferred manner to deal with issues when common sense and civility may be in order to help improve a brother in Masonry; remembering we need to approach our brothers from where they are in their journey and knowledge - not from where we think we are. ...



As it has me.  Unfortunately I have witnessed some of the most blatant unmasonic conduct by a brother under the guise of the laws of GL which was allowed to progress simply because the rest of the brothers did not know any better.  This conduct alone has caused me to read and re-read the book.  The actions were neither civil nor used common sense, merely the brother trying to force the lodge to bend to his will.  (I once had a professor who said, "Common Sense isn't).  It is also one of the reasons I joined this group.  To learn more, become better as a Mason and as WM.  

We all have stories regarding - both personal and heresy - brothers who have attempted to pervert the law and the Lodge to their own agenda. 

Without knowledge of the law we cannot lead.  Without leaders we will cease to exist.

Just MHO


----------



## Bill Lins (Sep 14, 2009)

owls84 said:


> Could it be better serve if a Lodge had a workshop on how to read the laws to better understand them and perform administrative duties?  I envision a floor school with hypoteticals and what ifs to better prepare the officers and stage situations and see how to act and have the JW say "Stop, this is how the Law says this situation should be handled."



Bro. Josh, in 2005 we held GL workshops in every District doing exactly what you are proposing. I'd love to see us do it again.


----------



## Bill Lins (Sep 14, 2009)

Chaplin the Elder said:


> Good point.
> 
> 
> 
> Another good point.  However I submit there are some brothers who, unless you show them in print, chapter and verse, will insist on continuing causing disharmony in the lodge based on faulty or false information pertaining to law.



Amen!  Further, I feel the reason for having the JW read the Law regularly is for him to learn it by doing so. He is the officer responsible for enforcing it, after all.

Most of our Law was formulated in response to things that happened in the past. As many of us weren't around when some of these things happened, we cannot know what they were. To make decisions based only on what we personally know would not take the Law into account, & I do not feel that I personally possess all the wisdom accumulated by our Fraternity over the last 172 years. Thus I use the Law as a guide written by those who were solving our problems way before I was born.

In the workshops we had in 2005, there were two lessons. First, instead of reinventing the wheel, to check the book- chances are, whatever situation one is faced with has already been dealt with and a solution devised. Secondly, one needs to check the book each time. We tinker with the Law every year at the Grand Communication and just because you found the answer to a problem last year does not mean it is still the correct answer this year- the Law may have changed.


----------



## Chaplin the Elder (Sep 14, 2009)

Brother Bill, 

One of the points that Bro. owls84 stated was that he felt 





> ...What I said in a later post was that instead of beating over someone over the head with the LAW book as the manner of some is...



I believe that we, that is the Master, is charged with making sure the law is read to inform and teach the brothers, not to beat them over the head with and use the reading as a way of pointing out what the brother(s) did wrong.  

As a Master I feel we should follow that old adage, "Praise in public, chastise in private."   During my year in the West I found, in my lodge, the people who complained the most publicly about the law being violated where several Past Masters.  Interestingly enough every time I checked the law I found out that they were not only wrong in their interpretation of the law but, in some cases, didn't even know the law to begin with. 

Please understand, this is not a complaint nor a public airing of private lodge issues but a statement to illustrate my point.  Since becoming Master the complaints have stopped cold.  Part of this can be, I feel, attributed to the fact that I have caused the JW to read from the law at _every_ stated meeting.  The first 2 stated meetings I choose the articles to be read (these pertained to specific issues affecting the Lodge at that moment.) For the rest of my year, issues not withstanding, I will let the JW select the articles to be read.  

I have found that the brothers actually like the law to be read.  The reasons that I have been told about are; from the younger brothers, "It is good to know the law and understand what it is about." From the older brothers, "I'm glad you read that section.  It will put a stop to Bro. AB's constant complaining about....."

One of the side effects of having the law read that I have found - at least in my lodge - is that with knowledge comes the power of the brothers to collectively stop one man's agenda and thereby promote peace and harmony within the lodge.  This ensures the growth of the lodge and helps the brothers return to lodge who have stopped coming to lodge due to the disharmony caused by a few who feel they are the _only_ ones who have the right to say what the lodge or brother can or cannot do based on _their_ interpretation of the law. Generally speaking, upon further research, I have found that their _privileged_ interpretation, when not just incorrect, was blatantly in violation of said law.  This is what I mean when I speak of a brother with an agenda.  

I know that this reply is rather long but I feel so strongly about educating the brothers that I wanted my position clear.  

When we educate we remove the power of a few to dominate and pervert our brotherhood towards their own ends.  The brothers may choose to ignore their educational opportunities within the lodge (just as some do outside the lodge) but they will not be able to use the excuse of, "I didn't know" because there will always be a brother who was there when that part of the law was read in lodge. 

Just MHO


----------



## Wingnut (Sep 14, 2009)

IMHO, and for what its worth, part of the reading should include a discussion.  Questions that cant be answered should be directed to the DDGM who can then take them to the GM if there isn't a known answer or precedence.  That is part of their duty after all.

I wish we actually had more open discussions in a lodge room, and not as formal.  I agree 100% about the formality but either we need to have open civil discussion in the lodge or have a forum (no not this one) where discussion can take place.  I miss the quarterly education that the districts/regions used to do (havent seen one in a long time...).


----------



## Chaplin the Elder (Sep 14, 2009)

Wingnut said:


> IMHO, and for what its worth, part of the reading should include a discussion.  Questions that cant be answered should be directed to the DDGM who can then take them to the GM if there isn't a known answer or precedence.  That is part of their duty after all.
> 
> I wish we actually had more open discussions in a lodge room, and not as formal.  I agree 100% about the formality but either we need to have open civil discussion in the lodge or have a forum (no not this one) where discussion can take place.  I miss the quarterly education that the districts/regions used to do (havent seen one in a long time...).



I agree. In fact, until we started reading the law during the meetings we had a few brothers who would force their viewpoint during a discussion as "being the law" and (this one I LOVE) "Grand Lodge will come down and pull our charter if we do that".  A brother was actually called on that one, because we had checked with GL and they not only were in favor of what we were going to do but wanted to know how they could help us make it a success.

The item in question you may ask?  Opening a Community Builder's award to the general public.  

Discussion is always good, IMHO, because it helps bring new ideas, thoughts, and changes (when and where they are needed) to the forefront.  Of course, it is the sole responsibility of the Master to make sure that the discussion is orderly and does not create disharmony.


----------



## Bill Lins (Sep 15, 2009)

Chaplin the Elder said:


> I agree. In fact, until we started reading the law during the meetings we had a few brothers who would force their viewpoint during a discussion as "being the law" and (this one I LOVE) "Grand Lodge will come down and pull our charter if we do that".
> 
> The item in question you may ask?  Opening a Community Builder's award to the general public.



OK, now I'm . How could you have a closed meeting to present a CB award that is to be given to a non-Mason?


----------



## Chaplin the Elder (Sep 15, 2009)

Bill_Lins77488 said:


> OK, now I'm . How could you have a closed meeting to present a CB award that is to be given to a non-Mason?



It wasn't a closed meeting.  And that was the whole point.  We opened a MM lodge and called it to refreshment.  Included and presented at the same time was a Golden Trowel award and two scholarships.  Except for the Golden Trowel all the others were to non-masons.  

We filled the lodge room, got two new members and had a number of the community members want to know more about what we do (besides control the weather).


----------



## Bill Lins (Sep 15, 2009)

I guess I still don't understand why all the contention. GL prefers that CB, GT, Carter, & Lamar Awards be presented at special open meetings but there is nothing wrong with opening a MM Lodge & calling off first.


----------



## Wingnut (Sep 16, 2009)

We did one of our CBs in the City Council Chamber during a Council meeting since the recpt was on the City Council.


----------



## Gerald.Harris (Sep 16, 2009)

Wingnut said:


> We did one of our CBs in the City Council Chamber during a Council meeting since the recpt was on the City Council.



What a great way to be seen in the community ! Super idea..My congratulations to your WM.


----------



## Chaplin the Elder (Sep 16, 2009)

Bill_Lins77488 said:


> I guess I still don't understand why all the contention. GL prefers that CB, GT, Carter, & Lamar Awards be presented at special open meetings but there is nothing wrong with opening a MM Lodge & calling off first.



That was the special open meeting.  However, we had one old timer run around screaming that GL would come down and pull our charter.  He is part of what we call the "4 and 40" crowd.  He only wants 4 members in lodge and 40 dollars in the bank.


----------



## JBD (Sep 16, 2009)

Chaplin the Elder said:


> That was the special open meeting.  However, we had one old timer run around screaming that GL would come down and pull our charter.  He is part of what we call the "4 and 40" crowd.  He only wants 4 members in lodge and 40 dollars in the bank.



I soooo love and appreciate the "pull the charter" crowd.  Real inspiring, real compassion, real brotherly love.  I had a discussion on the very subject with someone just a few days ago.

My feeling is when your only tool is a hammer  - everything looks like a nail.

My position is Masonry affords me a whole box full of tools and none are a hammer.


----------



## Gerald.Harris (Sep 16, 2009)

JBD said:


> I soooo love and appreciate the "pull the charter" crowd.  Real inspiring, real compassion, real brotherly love.  I had a discussion on the very subject with someone just a few days ago.
> 
> My feeling is when your only tool is a hammer  - everything looks like a nail.
> 
> My position is Masonry affords me a whole box full of tools and none are a hammer.



Well said Brother... Sometimes it is difficult to determine which tool best fits the situation. I also agree that the "pull the charter crowd"  are usually only thinking with a hammer.


----------



## JBD (Sep 16, 2009)

Gerald.Harris said:


> Well said Brother... Sometimes it is difficult to determine which tool best fits the situation. I also agree that the "pull the charter crowd"  are usually only thinking with a hammer.



Ya know I liked the JBDism so well I edited it and made it part of my signature


----------



## Gerald.Harris (Sep 16, 2009)

And a good one it is.


----------



## Chaplin the Elder (Sep 16, 2009)

JBD said:


> I soooo love and appreciate the "pull the charter" crowd.  Real inspiring, real compassion, real brotherly love.  I had a discussion on the very subject with someone just a few days ago.
> 
> My feeling is when your only tool is a hammer  - everything looks like a nail.
> 
> My position is Masonry affords me a whole box full of tools and none are a hammer.



Well put.  And this is a brother who wants everything nailed shut, by him.  

He has not shown up in lodge since I became Master.  And neither has 98% of the contention we had in the lodge.  Could there be a correlation between the two?


----------



## Wingnut (Sep 17, 2009)

... and sometimes you need a BIG hammer just to get peoples attention (see [ame="http://masonsoftexas.com/showthread.php?t=8348"]Racism Thread[/ame])


----------



## Gerald.Harris (Sep 28, 2009)

blake said:


> I think I'll be WM by the time I receive a copy.



Brother Blake, If you have not received your copy, you can go downstairs to the book room at Grand Lodge, and ask for Brother Raywood, ( It is a small door in the hall where all the pictures of each lodge is posted)  he will check the record to see if your lodge secretary has already requested the same. If it has not been requested, he will give it to you and mark off that your lodge has indeed received it's copy. Hope this helps you.


----------



## MGM357 (Sep 28, 2009)

What scares me is the laws and bylaws of the GL are becoming like the laws of our country, which everyone seems to have their own interpertation. To me, Masonry is simple. We need to get back to keeping it simple. Before I knew hardly any laws of Masonry, I knew the obligations. Think about it. During everyone's EA, how many knews the laws of the GL. All I knew, that I had to believe in God, be a certain age (21 at that time), and having no felonies. Since that time Ihave learned so much more of what you can or can't do. To me the obligation dictates our actions throughout our daily lives, or how the public sees our actions.  The laws and bylaws of the GL are there to allow the lodges to operate, to take in new members, to suspend or expel for wrong doing, and so on. To me, how we act outside the lodge room is our total reflection. That's how I became interested in Masonry, by seeing how other Masons act.  I hope this helps, if I'm wrong, please enlighten me!!


----------



## Gerald.Harris (Sep 28, 2009)

MGM357 said:


> What scares me is the laws and bylaws of the GL are becoming like the laws of our country, which everyone seems to have their own interpertation. To me, Masonry is simple. We need to get back to keeping it simple. Before I knew hardly any laws of Masonry, I knew the obligations. Think about it. During everyone's EA, how many knews the laws of the GL. All I knew, that I had to believe in God, be a certain age (21 at that time), and having no felonies. Since that time Ihave learned so much more of what you can or can't do. To me the obligation dictates our actions throughout our daily lives, or how the public sees our actions.  The laws and bylaws of the GL are there to allow the lodges to operate, to take in new members, to suspend or expel for wrong doing, and so on. To me, how we act outside the lodge room is our total reflection. That's how I became interested in Masonry, by seeing how other Masons act.  I hope this helps, if I'm wrong, please enlighten me!!



My brother, you have a very valid point. I will say however, that the laws of the Grand Lodge, are very much like they were in 1977 when I first became a Master Mason. It is true that they have changed a bit along the way, but for the most part it was for the good of all. At least that is the way it was originally intended. I don't believe that one single member of GL has ever proposed a resolution or recommendation to the GLOT that he felt was a bad thing, and I don't think that the Grand West has ever passed a law that they thought was bad for masonry in general or the Grand Lodge of Texas in particular. I will also say that what we type or print here on these boards are our own opinions, and do not reflect the official answers from the Jurisprudence Committie who is charged with keeping the rest of us operating with in the limits of the law. If you ask the Grand Master for a ruling on any subject, he will most likely go to this committee for advice before he answers you.
 I know that this sounds like it is full of legal jargon, ( much like the laws of the country) but it is also the laws that we agree to uphold and live by. I do agree with you that things would be so much simpler if we could all just remember to abide by the obligations we took when we became masons.


----------



## MGM357 (Sep 28, 2009)

The only two changes that come to mind are the age was dropped to 18 and 14 days to wait between turning in your work and your next degree. 

There are alot of 18 yr olds still in high school, and in my mind peer pressure can play a role in keeping the secrets of Freemasonry. The canidate could answer all of the questions in the correct way, but still not show his maturity level. I understand it has to be taken at a case by case basis. What was wrong with keeping the minium at 21? 

If I remember correctly the time between degrees was a full lunar calendar. My opinion, what's the big hurry? I've seen alot of brothers hurry up and turn in their work and you never see or hear from them again. Maybe if it was still 28 days, the brother could slow down long enough to get to know the brothers at the lodge, interpret the work more, understand there is more light, and maybe make himself feel more at home with Masonry.

Your thoughts please!!


----------



## Gerald.Harris (Sep 28, 2009)

MGM357 said:


> The only two changes that come to mind are the age was dropped to 18 and 14 days to wait between turning in your work and your next degree.
> 
> There are alot of 18 yr olds still in high school, and in my mind peer pressure can play a role in keeping the secrets of Freemasonry. The canidate could answer all of the questions in the correct way, but still not show his maturity level. I understand it has to be taken at a case by case basis. What was wrong with keeping the minium at 21?
> 
> ...



My thoughts are the same as yours Brother. I still do not feel that a man has reached his maturity at 18. The large item that the pro 18s used was the fact that so many of our soldiers who are putting their lives on the line for the service of our country,were not 21. ( on that basis I agree with them) I am ok with the case by case basis, but in reality that is the way that we handle everything else when it comes to a potential candidate.

 On the other issue ( the one regarding time between degrees) I still agree with you. 28 days is fast enough in my book, however there is apparantly enough brothers out there who want fast track  ( all in a day) lodges. I believe the 14 day time was more or less a compromise between the two factions.

 Other items that have changes of late are the allowance of cypher books, the recognition of Prince Hall Grand Lodge, and allowing EA and FCs to sit in a Stated Meeting.


----------



## MGM357 (Sep 28, 2009)

The cypher books are the biggest crutch in learning the work. The rituals we use in C&C only make remembering the work harder. We're trying to not to use the rituals in opening or closing. So far it's getting better. In the long run it we hope to have a bigger group of companions attend C&C because we're not reading out of a book.

Allowing EAs and FCs to sit in stated meetings falls under the lets hurry up mentality. one of the first charges that was given to me by the WM was to await my time with patiences.


----------



## Gerald.Harris (Sep 28, 2009)

MGM357 said:


> The cypher books are the biggest crutch in learning the work. The rituals we use in C&C only make remembering the work harder. We're trying to not to use the rituals in opening or closing. So far it's getting better. In the long run it we hope to have a bigger group of companions attend C&C because we're not reading out of a book.
> 
> Allowing EAs and FCs to sit in stated meetings falls under the lets hurry up mentality. one of the first charges that was given to me by the WM was to await my time with patiences.



When the first code books hit the C&C, the rule was that they not be allowed in the lodges. It was only a short time, and there they were. I have had many companions tell me that they feel the books were the death of the organizations.
 I agree with you on the hurry up and the are we there yet mentality. I have a friend  who is presently a FC. He spent a year learning his EA, and told me not to expect him to turn in his FC until his time was short. He wanted to visit, and experience the degree as long as he could. I have another older brother who is an instructor, and this case drives him crazy. He just can't understand why this young man is procrastinating so.. I get tickled just thinking about this.


----------



## MGM357 (Sep 28, 2009)

I'm proud your friend is taking his time. Especially as a FC. That degree seems to never get the respect it deserves. I myself didn't realize how educational the degree was until after I had watched put on someone else. I wish I had relished more in the FC degree while I was a FC, especially after going through the York Rite festival.


----------



## Bill Lins (Sep 28, 2009)

Gerald.Harris said:


> Brother Blake, If you have not received your copy, you can go downstairs to the book room at Grand Lodge, and ask for Brother Raywood, ( It is a small door in the hall where all the pictures of each lodge is posted)



Bro. Blake, you are truly honored. You have been entrusted with the knowledge of the Sanctum Sanctorum of the Grand Lodge of Texas, aka Masonic Supply. Guard this knowledge & use it wisely, Grasshopper!


----------



## Blake Bowden (Jan 3, 2010)

By the time I receive a book, I'll be SW...hah!


----------



## owls84 (Aug 19, 2010)

I wonder if we shop the printing around? I can get things printed in those volumes in a weeks time by surfing the internet. Why does it take 6 months to get Law Changes?


----------



## Dave in Waco (Aug 19, 2010)

owls84 said:


> I wonder if we shop the printing around? I can get things printed in those volumes in a weeks time by surfing the internet. Why does it take 6 months to get Law Changes?



Agreed.  Why do they not put out a Request for Proposal?  They don't have to go with the lowest bid, but shopping the printing around has to get GL a better deal and more timely delivery.


----------



## Gerald.Harris (Aug 19, 2010)

Dave in Waco said:


> Agreed.  Why do they not put out a Request for Proposal?  They don't have to go with the lowest bid, but shopping the printing around has to get GL a better deal and more timely delivery.


 
Guys, The new books have been available for a good while now. I received mine a month or more ago. I don't know that it is so much a question of printing each year as it is a question of getting the book ready to go to the printer.


----------



## Dave in Waco (Aug 20, 2010)

Gerald.Harris said:


> Guys, The new books have been available for a good while now. I received mine a month or more ago. I don't know that it is so much a question of printing each year as it is a question of getting the book ready to go to the printer.



It's all the printing they do.  It took the printers months for the new Monitors this year.  They worked on those for about 5 months.


----------



## Bill Lins (Aug 20, 2010)

blake said:


> By the time I receive a book, I'll be SW...hah!


 
Why don't you try reordering it- they may have misplaced the original order. Just a thought.


----------



## TexasAggieOfc1273 (Aug 21, 2010)

I read ours at least every other stated meeting... though I'm working out of a 2007 version


----------



## Bill Lins (Aug 21, 2010)

TexasAggieOfc1273 said:


> I'm working out of a 2007 version


 
You should have a brand-new one- all your secretary has to do is ask for it. They're free.


----------



## Blake Bowden (Aug 21, 2010)

Well folks, I'm now SW and still haven't received a copy of the GL Bylaws. Thankfully I have a two year old PDF copy otherwise I'd be out of luck. At our last stated meeting I stood up and asked how many people own a copy of our Lodge bylaws. Only two hands were raised. Don't let that happen at your Lodge!


----------



## TexasAggieOfc1273 (Aug 21, 2010)

Thanks Bro. Bill... I'll address it on Monda


----------



## Bill Lins (Aug 21, 2010)

Blake- because our Lodge operates a little differently than most, I'm in the process of writing a Lodge Manual defining the duties & responsibilities of the various officers. Each Manual will include a copy of our bylaws & the little booklet on Masonic Parliamentary procedure. You might consider doing the same for your Lodge.


----------



## HKTidwell (Aug 21, 2010)

Bill_Lins77488 said:


> Blake- because our Lodge operates a little differently than most, I'm in the process of writing a Lodge Manual defining the duties & responsibilities of the various officers. Each Manual will include a copy of our bylaws & the little booklet on Masonic Parliamentary procedure. You might consider doing the same for your Lodge.


 
One of the many things I've been looking at putting togather for new MM is a CD.  The CD will have a electronic Petitions (Blue Lodge, Scottish rite, York Rite, and Shriners), Lodge Bylaws, Grand Lodge laws, and the ALL program.  Hopefully as time goes on I can add somethings to this but that is what I would like to start off with.  Any ideas?


----------



## Bill Lins (Aug 21, 2010)

Sounds great! May I have a copy when you get it done, please?


----------



## HKTidwell (Aug 21, 2010)

I will be more then willing to send you a copy.  However I had one of our PM contact Grand lodge(he was asking a question already) for a pdf version of the grand law and it wasn't availible as of a month ago.  I need to call them again and see if it is now availible.


----------



## Ashton Lawson (Aug 24, 2010)

I bought a cd of the current law book this weekend at the Masonic Supply office at Grand Lodge.


----------



## Papatom (Aug 24, 2010)

Bill_Lins77488 said:


> Blake- because our Lodge operates a little differently than most, I'm in the process of writing a Lodge Manual defining the duties & responsibilities of the various officers. Each Manual will include a copy of our bylaws & the little booklet on Masonic Parliamentary procedure. You might consider doing the same for your Lodge.


Is it possible to purchase one from you, or make a  donation to your lodge for a copy?


----------



## Dave in Waco (Aug 24, 2010)

Ashton Lawson said:


> I bought a cd of the current law book this weekend at the Masonic Supply office at Grand Lodge.



They didn't have any last week.  Looks like I need to go see Bro. Raywood on break today.


----------



## HKTidwell (Aug 24, 2010)

I should be in Waco on Wednesday and I may have to drop by and snag a copy of this and also a copy of "Masonry for the Texas Mason's Lady" (thanks Brother Lins).  Brother Ashton what was the cost on the cd?


----------



## Bill Lins (Aug 24, 2010)

Papatom said:


> Is it possible to purchase one from you, or make a  donation to your lodge for a copy?


 
There's no need. While donations to our Lodge are gratefully accepted & appreciated, I intend (if I ever get it finished) to post it online & make it available to any Brother who desires it.


----------



## Ashton Lawson (Aug 24, 2010)

$10


----------



## Spring TX MM (Aug 25, 2010)

We read a law every stated meeting last year. I admit it got old and only a few of us paid attention. This year the WM is having me go through the MM's Obligation. Yes, one month we will be doing two points and the rest will be one. Basically, I will say the part then break it down and explain it. The Brothers are more receptive to that then hearing what they consider a boring law every month. I also agree with and like what another Brother said in an earlier post about discussing the laws in a scenario based forum on study nights or floor work night with Brothers who are interested in learning about them.

Good Topic


Kyle


----------



## HKTidwell (Aug 25, 2010)

Ashton Lawson said:


> $10


 
Thank you picked that up and a couple other items too.


----------



## owls84 (Aug 26, 2010)

Spring TX MM said:


> We read a law every stated meeting last year. I admit it got old and only a few of us paid attention. This year the WM is having me go through the MM's Obligation. Yes, one month we will be doing two points and the rest will be one. Basically, I will say the part then break it down and explain it. The Brothers are more receptive to that then hearing what they consider a boring law every month. I also agree with and like what another Brother said in an earlier post about discussing the laws in a scenario based forum on study nights or floor work night with Brothers who are interested in learning about them.
> 
> Good Topic
> 
> ...


 
What if it was presented diffrently to make it to where Brethren didn't doze off? What if the JW did scenarios and had some of the members discuss how to properly handle the situation then give them how it should be handled as per the Law. That would give people an engagement activity and an intrest of what is being taught. If you have a well informed Brother ask him not to respond so the others could all get a chance.


----------



## rpbrown (Nov 19, 2012)

Every stated meeting


----------



## dhouseholder (Nov 20, 2012)

Wingnut said:


> How often does your JW read a passage from the Masonic Law book?



As JW at my lodge, I try not to read from the Masonic Law book. I actually read the lodge an article or a brief essay. A few that I have read this year deal with....

1) What is the significance of the letters A.F.A.M. in front of our name?
2) The symbolism of the Warden's columns.
3) A brief list of anecdotal tales of old customs and traditions of our lodge specifically. 
4) The symbolism of the Wardens and why their jobs are what they are.

Most brethren thank me for not reading the (dry) Law Book and coming up with something original.


----------



## Blake Bowden (Dec 11, 2013)

dhouseholder said:


> As JW at my lodge, I try not to read from the Masonic Law book. I actually read the lodge an article or a brief essay. A few that I have read this year deal with....
> 
> 1) What is the significance of the letters A.F.A.M. in front of our name?
> 2) The symbolism of the Warden's columns.
> ...



That's awesome

Sent from my XT1060 using My Freemasonry Pro mobile app


----------



## dfreybur (Dec 12, 2013)

Fun jurisdictional variations.  In California I was required to read the California Masonic Code to qualify as JW and there was a test, but there is no mention that any officer read from the book in opened lodge.  In Illinois there's a line in the WM installation that tells hims to read from the Illinois Masonic Code at each meeting.  Only one WM I have seen ever did so.  Here in Texas I have yet to see paragraphs from the Texas Masonic Law quoted anywhere but on this forum.


----------

