# How does this go??



## mrpierce17 (Jan 13, 2015)

Ok maybe someone can explain this one to me I am a member of The Most Worshipful Union GL of FL PHA , & looking at the UGLE website and they don't show current recognition to FL PHA as of yet although the do recognize the Most Worshipful Prince Hall GL of MA witch I am a honorary member of , so my question is let's say I wanted to join Internet lodge would they except me ???


----------



## Bro. Stewart P.M. (Jan 13, 2015)

mrpierce17 said:


> Ok maybe someone can explain this one to me I am a member of The Most Worshipful Union GL of FL PHA , & looking at the UGLE website and they don't show current recognition to FL PHA as of yet although the do recognize the Most Worshipful Prince Hall GL of MA witch I am a honorary member of , so my question is let's say I wanted to join Internet lodge would they except me ???


 
The question that you are asking will be more easily and accurately answered by representation of the "Internet Lodge". From what information that I can gather from the UGLE website, you are correct in that the GL you belong to is not Recognised by them. http://www.ugle.org.uk/about/foreign-grand-lodges

I would refer your question to the site that you are attempting to join.


----------



## Brother_Steve (Jan 13, 2015)

mrpierce17 said:


> Ok maybe someone can explain this one to me I am a member of The Most Worshipful Union GL of FL PHA , & looking at the UGLE website and they don't show current recognition to FL PHA as of yet although the do recognize the Most Worshipful Prince Hall GL of MA witch I am a honorary member of , so my question is let's say I wanted to join Internet lodge would they except me ???


The Grand Lodge of Florida has senior rights when it comes to the sovereign jurisdiction. Therefore in order to gain recognition with the UGLE, you first have to be recognized by the jurisdiction in which your GL resides. Think of it as connecting the dots. The Grand Lodge and PHA lodge in FL need to get together and establish recognition and visitation.

This is why you do not see Georgia, South Carolina, etc on UGLE list either.

Edited: Your question could best be answered by the Internet Lodge. From my readings of their site (I was interested in it too) you need to be a Mason in good standing (paying dues) in a lodge that is recognized by the UGLE.

Do you have any kind of official identification on you that says you are a member of a particular lodge in MA that the secretary can attest that you are indeed a card carrying member?


----------



## MRichard (Jan 13, 2015)

Another issue is whether your grand lodge allows plural or dual memberships.


----------



## mrpierce17 (Jan 13, 2015)

Makes sense


----------



## mrpierce17 (Jan 13, 2015)

Brother_Steve said:


> The Grand Lodge of Florida has senior rights when it comes to the sovereign jurisdiction. Therefore in order to gain recognition with the UGLE, you first have to be recognized by the jurisdiction in which your GL resides. Think of it as connecting the dots. The Grand Lodge and PHA lodge in FL need to get together and establish recognition and visitation.
> 
> This is why you do not see Georgia, South Carolina, etc on UGLE list either.
> 
> ...


I believe this should do and I am a MM in good standing of MWUGLofFL


----------



## Brother_Steve (Jan 13, 2015)

Any hints at FL moving towards mutual recognition?


----------



## mrpierce17 (Jan 13, 2015)

MRichard said:


> Another issue is whether your grand lodge allows plural or dual memberships.


I believe this is the one exception with dual membership in Prince Hall Masonry African  lodge No.459 & MWPHGL of Mass


----------



## mrpierce17 (Jan 13, 2015)

Brother_Steve said:


> Any hints at FL moving towards mutual recognition?


I can only pray that the GAOTU put it in our brethren's hearts to meet each other on the Level here in FL


----------



## MRichard (Jan 13, 2015)

mrpierce17 said:


> I believe this is the one exception with dual membership in Prince Hall Masonry African  lodge No.459 & MWPHGL of Mass



That's my point. That is a Prince Hall lodge and it is honorary. But joining the internet lodge which has a warrant from the UGLE directly, is like trying to join another grand lodge.


----------



## mrpierce17 (Jan 13, 2015)

That's why I like this forum ask questions get answers


----------



## MBC (Jan 13, 2015)

Normally Honourary members are not count as members, except you have the grand lodge certificate or other documents from the grand lodge that accept you as a member of that grand lodge.
If your mother grand lodge don't allow you for plural GLs membership then you can't join the Internet Lodge here because you'll be an official UGLE members for joining this Internet Lodge and you'll received a GL certificate from the UGLE.
However there's no recognition TO the "Union Grand Lodge of Florida", "Stringer Grand Lodge of Mississippi" and some other PHGLs from the UGLE. So you may need to resign your GL and join the recognised one that allow plural GLs membership to join the Internet Lodge of UGLE if you want to join.


----------



## Mike Martin (Jan 13, 2015)

Just to add some meat to MBC's response:

On receipt of your application to become a Joining Member of the Internet Lodge No. 9659, its Secretary will make enquiries with the Grand Secretary's Office at Freemasons' Hall in London who will talk to the Grand Secretary of your own Grand Lodge to verify your bona fides. 

If you are not a member of a Grand Lodge that is recognised by the UGLE your application will be rejected.

Having just properly read the document you have shown above your "Honourary" Membership is predicated upon your actual membership of another PHA Lodge rather than you being a member of a Lodge under MWPHAGL of Mass. The certificate is from the Lodge, it is not from the Grand Lodge, so it will not count.


----------



## MBC (Jan 13, 2015)

Mike Martin said:


> Just to add some meat to MBC's response:
> 
> On receipt of your application to become a Joining Member of the Internet Lodge No. 9659, its Secretary will make enquiries with the Grand Secretary's Office at Freemasons' Hall in London who will talk to the Grand Secretary of your own Grand Lodge to verify your bona fides.
> 
> ...


Yes Brother Martin is correct.
Thank you Brother for more explanations.


----------



## mrpierce17 (Jan 13, 2015)

Thank you for clearing that up that is the answer I was looking


----------



## MRichard (Jan 13, 2015)

mrpierce17 said:


> Thank you for clearing that up that is the answer I was looking



You had kinda already answered your own question cause if your grand lodge does not permit dual or plural memberships, then even if you were a member of MWPHGLMa or any PH Grand Lodge that the UGLE recognizes; you would still not be permitted to join another grand lodge. That is to the best of my understanding and grant it, I am still learning.


----------



## Ripcord22A (Jan 16, 2015)

My question is....is that pha lodge a real gl?  Every pha lodge i have ever seen is MWPHGLofXX.  Ive never seen MWanythingelseofXXX


----------



## MBC (Jan 16, 2015)

jdmadsenCraterlake211 said:


> My question is....is that pha lodge a real gl?  Every pha lodge i have ever seen is MWPHGLofXX.  Ive never seen MWanythingelseofXXX


"Union" GL and "Stringer" GL are the two Prince Hall GLs got generally accepted in all US jurisdictions but just simply not the UGLE.
Your grand lodge should recognised these two GLs and you should check it up yourselves.


----------



## MRichard (Jan 16, 2015)

jdmadsenCraterlake211 said:


> My question is....is that pha lodge a real gl?  Every pha lodge i have ever seen is MWPHGLofXX.  Ive never seen MWanythingelseofXXX



Interesting that you mention that since your grand lodge recognizes the Prince Hall grand lodge in your state since 1997 according to http://bessel.org/masrec/phachart.htm which may be out of date but still has useful information and UGLE http://www.ugle.org.uk/about/foreign-grand-lodges . Visitation may or may not be allowed as I couldn't find a definitive source but you can always contact the secretary of your lodge or your grand lodge for further information.


----------



## MRichard (Jan 16, 2015)

MBC said:


> "Union" GL and "Stringer" GL are the two Prince Hall GLs got generally accepted in all US jurisdictions but just simply not the UGLE.
> Your grand lodge should recognised these two GLs and you should check it up yourselves.



There are other Prince Hall grand lodges not recognized in other states as well. They are regular but these are mainly southern states where other issues may come into play with the exception of West Virginia (not considered a southern state). Prince Hall grand lodges are not recognized in Louisiana, Arkansas, Mississippi, Florida, West Virginia, Georgia, Tennesse, Alabama, & South Carolina. If you look at the UGLE site, it would appear that that there are only around 30 Prince Hall grand lodges recognized but some of the Prince Hall states were chartered by a Prince Hall grand lodge in another state so it gets a little confusing at times to the best of my knowledge.


----------



## dfreybur (Jan 17, 2015)

MBC said:


> "Union" GL and "Stringer" GL are the two Prince Hall GLs got generally accepted in all US jurisdictions but just simply not the UGLE.
> Your grand lodge should recognised these two GLs and you should check it up yourselves.



Here's the place to look for regular PHA jurisdictions - http://www.conferenceofgrandmasterspha.org/gjlinks.asp

All the others on the list match the pattern MWPHGLof(state).  Some have "and jurisdictions" in their name.  Sometimes this says they cover a nearby state.


----------



## mrpierce17 (Jan 17, 2015)

If you click on Florida it will direct you to The Most Worshipful Union Grand Lodge of Florida  The recognized Prince Hall GL here in FL  a BOGUS group already uses the name Prince Hall Grand Lodge of FL so I can see how this may confuse some if you care to visit our GL website you can read our history and see how this distinction came about


----------



## Glen Cook (Jan 17, 2015)

MBC said:


> "Union" GL and "Stringer" GL are the two Prince Hall GLs got generally accepted in all US jurisdictions but just simply not the UGLE.
> Your grand lodge should recognised these two GLs and you should check it up yourselves.


Just to clarify, Union and Stringer are accepted by the PHA Conference of Grandmasters.  I am unaware of them being excepted by members of CGMNA.


----------



## Glen Cook (Jan 17, 2015)

dfreybur said:


> ...
> 
> All the others on the list match the pattern MWPHGLof(state).  Some have "and jurisdictions" in their name.  Sometimes this says they cover a nearby state.


For  instance, the two Prince Hall lodges in Utah are members of MW Prince Hall GL of Colorado and it's Jurisdictions. 

I am pleased to say they both rent space in Grand Lodge of Utah buildings.


----------



## MBC (Jan 17, 2015)

dfreybur said:


> Here's the place to look for regular PHA jurisdictions - http://www.conferenceofgrandmasterspha.org/gjlinks.asp
> 
> All the others on the list match the pattern MWPHGLof(state).  Some have "and jurisdictions" in their name.  Sometimes this says they cover a nearby state.


Ah thanks bro dfreybur. But I think I just only need to stick to the UGLE then I'm fine.


----------



## Ripcord22A (Jan 17, 2015)

MRichard said:


> Interesting that you mention that since your grand lodge recognizes the Prince Hall grand lodge in your state since 1997 according to http://bessel.org/masrec/phachart.htm which may be out of date but still has useful information and UGLE http://www.ugle.org.uk/about/foreign-grand-lodges . Visitation may or may not be allowed as I couldn't find a definitive source but you can always contact the secretary of your lodge or your grand lodge for further information.


Yes both Oregon and New Mexico recognize PHA and both PHAGLs are MWPHGLofXX i had never heard of stringer or union and.was just wondering if.they were bogus....thanks.to.mrprince for.clearing that up


----------

