# Visiting lodges that aren't in your jurisdiction



## Capricornguy (Feb 14, 2020)

So I ran into another mason that worked in my area. He sported the jacked mason jacked, wore the ring,  and necklace. I started talking to him. He claimed he was a 32nd degree scottish rite mason. I was like cool: You got your dues card? I showed him mine he showed me his. Mine was brown and his was Blue. 

I showed him mine he showed me his. We talked. Then I talked to my teacher about his lodge. He said his lodge is "recognized" under the GLofTX but not part of our jurisdiction. So It wouldn't be a good idea to talk to him about masonic stuff. 

We looked up his lodge online(facebook) and sure enough it looked like it was a group of people who just made a lodge and formed their own work and claimed to be masons. I am curious if this is common.

I was also told he couldn't attend our meetings nor the grandlodge meetings, and I wouldn't be able to attend theirs.

After our encounter he didn't wear any masonic apparel at all and avoided me since. We didn't have a bad chat we talked about how masonry improved our lives etc. Never spoke of the work.


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## Bill Lins (Feb 14, 2020)

Pretty common in Texas (especially Houston), Chicago, & NYC. The only other Grand Lodge in Texas that's recognized by GLoTX is the Prince Hall Affiliated (PHA) Grand Lodge of Texas which is based in Fort Worth. We can intervisit & hold Masonic discourse with them, but with no others.


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## Glen Cook (Feb 14, 2020)

Do you remember the lodge or grand lodge?


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## Thomas Stright (Feb 15, 2020)

Capricornguy said:


> I showed him mine he showed me his. We talked. Then I talked to my teacher about his lodge. He said *his lodge is "recognized" under the GLofTX* but not part of our jurisdiction. So It wouldn't be a good idea to talk to him about masonic stuff.




If they are recognized what is the issue with masonic discussion?


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## XUSMICO (Feb 15, 2020)

Capricornguy said:


> So I ran into another mason that worked in my area. He sported the jacked mason jacked, wore the ring,  and necklace. I started talking to him. He claimed he was a 32nd degree scottish rite mason. I was like cool: You got your dues card? I showed him mine he showed me his. Mine was brown and his was Blue.
> 
> I showed him mine he showed me his. We talked. Then I talked to my teacher about his lodge. He said his lodge is "recognized" under the GLofTX but not part of our jurisdiction. So It wouldn't be a good idea to talk to him about masonic stuff.
> 
> ...


****
Common, PHA and other clandestine lodges try and infiltrate regular lodges.  I have noted that many clandestine lodges are big into wearing Masonic clothing, large gaudy necklaces. hats ect.   Each year I have my lofgr get the YELLOW BOOK" that has the listing has all the regular & recognized lodeges.  Keep it in my truck or travel bag  to help when meeting a suspected Mason


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## Glen Cook (Feb 15, 2020)

XUSMICO said:


> ****
> Common, PHA and other clandestine lodges try and infiltrate regular lodges.  I have noted that many clandestine lodges are big into wearing Masonic clothing, large gaudy necklaces. hats ect.   Each year I have my lofgr get the YELLOW BOOK" that has the listing has all the regular & recognized lodeges.  Keep it in my truck or travel bag  to help when meeting a suspected Mason


PHA is NOT clandestine and they are a regular lodge.  Indeed, the GL TX , the jurisdiction of the OP, is in amity with PHA Texas.


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## Glen Cook (Feb 15, 2020)

Thomas Stright said:


> If they are recognized what is the issue with masonic discussion?


They appear not to be recognised. His was a mis-statement.


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## Capricornguy (Feb 15, 2020)

Glen Cook said:


> They appear not to be recognised. His was a mis-statement.



I guess my teacher meant "Acknowledge" them but they aren't under the Grand Lodge of TX.

So People actually create lodges and then.

This lodge is

he was trying to tell me they were the first, I asked my teacher and he said no we were the first in texas under the GLofTX. Maybe in his "Own" Jurisdiction. So how can I spot "real" masons and ones that are not in my jurisdiction. My mentor told me they have a book they go on and a dues card.
*UMW Scottish Rite Grand Lodge Af & AM of Texas Inc In Houston is his lodge he was referring to.*


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## Bill Lins (Feb 15, 2020)

Capricornguy said:


> I guess my teacher meant "Acknowledge" them but they aren't under the Grand Lodge of TX.
> 
> So People actually create lodges and then.
> 
> ...


He is, to be charitable, incorrect. Once again, the Prince Hall Affiliated Grand Lodge of Texas, based in Fort Worth, is the _*ONLY*_ other Texas Grand Lodge recognized by the GLoTX. UMW is one of many clandestine grand Lodges in Texas.


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## Bill Lins (Feb 15, 2020)

As an addendum, IIRC, the "Grand Medical Officer" of UMW is the doctor who was convicted of causing the death of Michael Jackson.


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## Glen Cook (Feb 15, 2020)

Capricornguy said:


> I guess my teacher meant "Acknowledge" them but they aren't under the Grand Lodge of TX.
> 
> So People actually create lodges and then.
> 
> ...


If by “acknowledge “, he means awareness, that is likely true. If he in any way implies acceptance, that is not true. It is not a regular body.


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## Glen Cook (Feb 15, 2020)

Bill Lins said:


> As an addendum, IIRC, the "Grand Medical Officer" of UMW is the doctor who was convicted of causing the death of Michael Jackson.


Yikes.


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## Capricornguy (Feb 16, 2020)

Bill Lins said:


> He is, to be charitable, incorrect. Once again, the Prince Hall Affiliated Grand Lodge of Texas, based in Fort Worth, is the _*ONLY*_ other Texas Grand Lodge recognized by the GLoTX. UMW is one of many clandestine grand Lodges in Texas.



Wow so stay away from this guy.


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## Glen Cook (Feb 16, 2020)

Capricornguy said:


> Wow so stay away from this guy.


Well, don’t harm your work relationship. To be fair, this may be what he has been told. Many of these group deceive their members.


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## Capricornguy (Feb 16, 2020)

Glen Cook said:


> Well, don’t harm your work relationship. To be fair, this may be what he has been told. Many of these group deceive their members.



How so deceive their members? Sorry I'm an FC at temple going to raised to MM soon but I did think a short time because I had time to spare so I'm still green in masonry. 

This person does not work with me but works in our building that we rent from. I just want to know moving forward what to say and what not to say.


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## Glen Cook (Feb 16, 2020)

Capricornguy said:


> How so deceive their members? Sorry I'm an FC at temple going to raised to MM soon but I did think a short time because I had time to spare so I'm still green in masonry.
> 
> This person does not work with me but works in our building that we rent from. I just want to know moving forward what to say and what not to say.


It is common among clandestine groups to make various misstatements half-truths:

They have a charter (it’s a charter to do business and not a Masonic charter);

That they are recognized (only by other clandestine groups);

That they can travel and visit other Lodges (only other clandestine lodges, not any large under the jurisdiction of UGLE, any state Grand Lodges, any PHA Grand Lodge...).

They are “Prince Hall,“ feeling to note that they are not Prince Hall Affiliated.

As noted above, there are only two Grand Lodges in Texas that are recognized: the Grand Lodge of Texas and Prince Hall Affiliated of Texas.  No one else.

I would defer to brethren of your jurisdiction regarding precisely what may be discussed.


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## Bill Lins (Feb 16, 2020)

Glen Cook said:


> As noted above, there are only two Grand Lodges in Texas that are recognized: the Grand Lodge of Texas and Prince Hall of Texas.  No one else.


The only other Grand Lodge recognized by GLoTX is the Prince Hall _*AFFILIATED*_ Grand Lodge. There are other, clandestine GLs here that style themselves Prince Hall XXXXX. ONLY PHA is recognized.


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## Glen Cook (Feb 17, 2020)

Bill Lins said:


> The only other Grand Lodge recognized by GLoTX is the Prince Hall _*AFFILIATED*_ Grand Lodge. There are other, clandestine GLs here that style themselves Prince Hall XXXXX. ONLY PHA is recognized.


Quite right. Thanks for the correction. I will amend the prior statement.


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## Capricornguy (Feb 17, 2020)

Glen Cook said:


> It is common among clandestine groups to make various misstatements half-truths:
> 
> They have a charter (it’s a charter to do business and not a Masonic charter);
> 
> ...



ok thanks for the tip I guess that’s why my mentor said I shouldn’t discuss masonry with these people. Their work is probably different then ours. Strange that they would make their own lodge. I’m surprised this happens and wonder why they don’t do this the regular way.


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## Glen Cook (Feb 17, 2020)

In my experience, there are a number of reasons:

They don’t know any better when they join. 

This is where there friends and family are. They are happy there. 

They seek after the honors of men, a fault shared with regular masonry. 

Petty pride and personality disorders. Some will have belonged to three different obediences with never moving. 

Corruption and desire for money.


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## Capricornguy (Feb 17, 2020)

Glen Cook said:


> In my experience, there are a number of reasons:
> 
> They don’t know any better when they join.
> 
> ...



when we spoke he was more interested in the networking and benefits. Also the ethics and moral it taught him. Strange how he become a “32 degree” mason in his own lodge.


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## Bill Lins (Feb 17, 2020)

Y'know, I can't really fault men who join clandestine Lodges. I joined the Fraternity because of men I knew & respected who were/are Masons. I knew nothing about "mainstream" or Prince Hall Lodges. Had my Masonic friends belonged to clandestine Lodges, I would have, unknowingly, joined them, like many Brethren I have since met- some of them now on these forums. I place the blame on the founders of those spurious GLs, especially those who did so for financial reasons.


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## Capricornguy (Feb 17, 2020)

Bill Lins said:


> Y'know, I can't really fault men who join clandestine Lodges. I joined the Fraternity because of men I knew & respected who were/are Masons. I knew nothing about "mainstream" or Prince Hall Lodges. Had my Masonic friends belonged to clandestine Lodges, I would have, unknowingly, joined them, like many Brethren I have since met- some of them now on these forums. I place the blame on the founders of those spurious GLs, especially those who did so for financial reasons.



But the bottom line is not the visit or go to their meetings?


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## J.R. Massey (Feb 17, 2020)

Capricornguy said:


> But the bottom line is not the visit or go to their meetings?


Correct, if you sit in an irregular lodge as a regular Mason it is grounds for your dismissal from your lodge.


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## Warrior1256 (Mar 6, 2020)

Glen Cook said:


> They don’t know any better when they join.


I find this VERY often to be the cause.


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