# Should individual lodges be able to serve alcohol?



## cemab4y

Before the disaster of prohibition, individual lodges in the USA, had the option of serving alcohol. In George Washington's time, at refreshments, they passed a jug around. Brother George ran a distillery.

In nearly all countries where Masonry is practiced, alcohol is available in the lodges. Only in the USA, are (some, but not all )lodges "dry".

What do YOU think? Should we return to the splendid tradition of having wine/beer/liquor in our lodges?

(This poll is for discussion ONLY, I am not interested in changing the policies of any lodge or Grand Lodge.


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## Glen Cook

I recollect temperance lodges in England in the last 12 years. I am aware of US GLs which allow alcohol.


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## crono782

I think it would be fine, with a few ground rules (partly for peace and harmony, partly to comply with law). I think hard liquors would be best left alone (though I thoroughly enjoy my whiskeys), but beer and wine, if served AFTER a meeting, would be excellent!


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## dfreybur

I rather like the tradition of toasts with drink at Table Lodge.  I think it hilarious when done with juice.  But your jurisdiction, your rules.  I rather like the California rules on how to have beer and wine available after the tiled meeting is over or at events where the lodge is not tiled.  But that's only 1 of my 3 jurisdictions.

The rules have to follow state law so they need to be different in each state.  I rather like that brothers in my Texas lodge tend to go have a beer after some of our meetings.  So you don't have to allow drink on our premises or in our meetings for it to happen.  Arguably the Shrine emerged as a result of drink being banned at the blue lodge level in most/all of the US around a century ago.


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## cemab4y

I visit a lodge in Fredericksburg VA, when I am able. After the meeting is over, some of the men will walk a block down the street to a tavern, and enjoy a brew. I once visited a lodge in Florida, which adjourned and then we strolled to a nearby tavern.

I believe sincerely, that we can return to the tradition of the moderate use of alcohol in our lodge buildings. Maybe brandy and cigars after the meeting. Or beer and wine with the festive board.

We are all adults, and I believe sincerely, that we can enjoy beverages in moderation.


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## Ripcord22A

I am all for it.....however what about jurisdictions that 18 is the lawful age to be made a mason?


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## cemab4y

I do not see a problem. If a lodge has a license to serve alcohol, then each person will have to show ID, that they are of legal majority. In fraternal organizations, they have family events, where alcohol is served.


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## goomba

Yes 100% yes.  There is something unique about spirits with friends.


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## Bill Lins

dfreybur said:


> I rather like that brothers in my Texas lodge tend to go have a beer after some of our meetings.  So you don't have to allow drink on our premises or in our meetings for it to happen.



That's how we handle it @ my Lodge. We have some Brethren who do not drink or care to be around those who do. By leaving the Lodge premises, those Brethren can leave without offending or being offended. The rest of us walk next door to a restaurant where we can fellowship over adult beverages & cigars. Works well for everyone.


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## dalinkou

I don't drink, but I'm good with it either way.


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## pointwithinacircle2

Everything we do teaches us something.  Spending an evening drinking with friends teaches one way to enjoy life.  Spending an evening not drinking with our Brothers teaches us another way to enjoy life.  

I do not believe that spending one evening a month without drinking should constitute a hardship for any good man.  If it does then perhaps they should join one of the fraternal drinking clubs.


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## Bro. Stewart P.M.

Personally speaking, the Lodge is not the place for drinking. For me, Lodge is for being with like minded Brethren working in harmony together in the Quarries. Now, that being said I DO enjoy good cigars and frosty beverages with friends... there are other times and places for just that.

Just my thoughts on the question.


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## MarkR

Minnesota allows alcohol in the building, just not in the actual lodge room itself.  We retire downstairs after lodge for a couple of beverages.  This is a university town, and we found that it was difficult to fellowship in any of the bars downtown, because they are just too loud in the evenings.


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## mrpierce17

I'm for it as long as it's downstairs after all other business is adjourned


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## Tpower31

Our lodge is a licenced establishment and we have a fully stocked bar open on special nights.


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## Dontrell Stroman

Against it. What does alcohol have to do with freemasonry ? Why not leave the Lodge and go have a drink. I'm so tired of seeing brothers post pictures with Masonic emblems on while drinking. Sorry, off my rant now

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## Bloke

Travelling Man91 said:


> Against it. What does alcohol have to do with freemasonry ? Why not leave the Lodge and go have a drink. I'm so tired of seeing brothers post pictures with Masonic emblems on while drinking. Sorry, off my rant now
> 
> Sent from my 831C using My Freemasonry Pro mobile app


The same thing food and fellowship and conversation has to do with the Craft..


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## Ressam

IMHO,
No vodka&beer, but,
Good Red Wine!


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## Ripcord22A

Ressam said:


> IMHO,
> No vodka&beer, but,
> Good Red Wine!


Again ur not a freemason so you dont get an opinon...honest or not!

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## Dontrell Stroman

I'm speaking on what I have observed. There are pictures of freemasons on social media sites while holding alcoholic beverages with Masonic emblems on while in a club. What are your thoughts on this ?

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## dfreybur

Travelling Man91 said:


> I'm speaking on what I have observed. There are pictures of freemasons on social medias sites with holding alcoholic beverages with Masonic emblems while in a club. What are your thoughts on this ?



Both sides for me.

One of the reasons I petitioned the Masons instead of the Elks is the Masons had no bar on the premises.

I know we were founded at a tavern to hold Table Lodge meetings with drink.  I'm enough of a history buff to understand that the American stance against drink comes from the Prohibition era, which failed in epic ways.

Combining the two views this is why I occasionally like to go across the street with the Brothers to have a beer, why I occasionally attend Shrine events and have a glass of something, why I like to attend Table Lodge at places that have drinks before the meeting starts in states where that's allowed.


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## Bloke

Travelling Man91 said:


> I'm speaking on what I have observed. There are pictures of freemasons on social media sites while holding alcoholic beverages with Masonic emblems on while in a club. What are your thoughts on this ?
> 
> Sent from my 831C using My Freemasonry Pro mobile app



My thoughts: why wasnt i there !?


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## Winter

We're Freemasons, not Puritans.

My EC Lodge in Wisconsin works in the traditional style in that we do not have a building.  A local private club provides us a floor twice a month for our meetings.  Before the meeting we gather for a drink and socialization (the club has multiple staffed bars on the premises) and then we retire to the Lodge room for the stated meeting.  Business in an EC Lodge is handled in a way to not take time away from the Freemasonry of the evening. (Really, who wants to come together and just pay bills?) As soon as the meeting is closed, the Brothers retire to the dining room for the festive board that happens at every meeting. Brothers can have adult beverages with their dinner or not as their conscience dictates.  And since we are all Freemasons and remember our Ob, I have never seen an issue of intemperance at a Festive Board.

When the majority of your Masonic meeting night takes place around the table with good food and drinks, having fellowship with your Brothers, the Masonic experience takes on a whole different tone.  The club staffs the kitchens and provides the wait staff so that all Brothers take part and we don't have those few Brothers always left out because they feel compelled to always volunteer in the kitchen.


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## Ripcord22A

What is an EC lodge?

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## Winter

jdmadsenCraterlake211 said:


> What is an EC lodge?
> 
> Sent from my LG-H811 using My Freemasonry Pro mobile app


EC is European Concept Lodge.  It is very similar to a Traditional Observance Lodge.  

http://www.masonicdictionary.com/european.html

Transmitted via my R5 astromech.


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## Bloke

Winter said:


> EC is European Concept Lodge.  It is very similar to a Traditional Observance Lodge.
> 
> http://www.masonicdictionary.com/european.html
> 
> Transmitted via my R5 astromech.



How interesting. I saw "EC" and thought it meant English Constitution. EC, SC, IC, being English Constitution, Scottish Constitution and Irish Constitution are commom abreviations here, esp on engravings - no doubt to save space and cost. All three were present here before our GL was founded.


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## Ripcord22A

Thats what i thought too

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## Winter

There is a lot of similarity between a Traditional Observance Lodge and a European Concept Lodge.  But I can see where the confusion could happen over using just EC.


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## Warrior1256

Winter said:


> We're Freemasons, not Puritans.


True!


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## Warrior1256

jdmadsenCraterlake211 said:


> Again ur not a freemason so you dont get an opinon...honest or not!
> 
> Sent from my LG-H811 using My Freemasonry Pro mobile app


Also true!


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## mrpierce17

Travelling Man91 said:


> I'm speaking on what I have observed. There are pictures of freemasons on social media sites while holding alcoholic beverages with Masonic emblems on while in a club. What are your thoughts on this ?
> 
> Sent from my 831C using My Freemasonry Pro mobile app



I personally don't have a problem with it as long as they are carrying themselves in a respectful manner this is not a religious organization as some may think I feel the same way when I see the catholic priest drinking and smoking cigarettes in movies we are men and Mason's but we where men first just as the priest is a man to each it his own IMO


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## mrpierce17

Bloke said:


> My thoughts: why wasnt i there !?



Because I drink everything up before we could call you


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## mrpierce17

Travelling Man91 said:


> Against it. What does alcohol have to do with freemasonry ? Why not leave the Lodge and go have a drink. I'm so tired of seeing brothers post pictures with Masonic emblems on while drinking. Sorry, off my rant now
> 
> Sent from my 831C using My Freemasonry Pro mobile app



Sorry but I don't take my ring off just because I go into a bar to have a drink not saying I frequently go out because I'm comfortable sitting home but my point is just because some may take off there Masonic jewelry doesn't mean they all of a sudden stop being a Mason     what's to hide you think people aren't going to notice that liGht on the left hand corner of your automobile when you leave ???


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## Ripcord22A

mrpierce17 said:


> left hand corner of your automobile when you leave ???


Is that a PHA thing. i ask cause my buddy i work with is PHA and thats where he has his.....


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## mrpierce17

jdmadsenCraterlake211 said:


> Is that a PHA thing. i ask cause my buddy i work with is PHA and thats where he has his.....
> 
> 
> Sent from my LG-H811 using My Freemasonry Pro mobile app



Yes it is and I have heard a thousand reasons as to why the one I like to use is what was the first step you took in masonry ?


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## mrpierce17

Ressam said:


> IMHO,
> No vodka&beer, but,
> Good Red Wine!





jdmadsenCraterlake211 said:


> Again ur not a freemason so you dont get an opinon...honest or not!
> 
> Sent from my LG-H811 using My Freemasonry Pro mobile app



Mr Ressam you got to learn when to hold them and when to fold them tread cautiously here


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## Warrior1256

mrpierce17 said:


> I personally don't have a problem with it as long as they are carrying themselves in a respectful manner this is not a religious organization as some may think I feel the same way when I see the catholic priest drinking and smoking cigarettes in movies we are men and Mason's but we where men first just as the priest is a man to each it his own IMO


Totally agree.


mrpierce17 said:


> Because I drink everything up before we could call you


Lol!


mrpierce17 said:


> Sorry but I don't take my ring off just because I go into a bar to have a drink





mrpierce17 said:


> Mr Ressam you got to learn when to hold them and when to fold them tread cautiously here


To both, once again, totally agree.


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## Glen Cook

mrpierce17 said:


> Sorry but I don't take my ring off just because I go into a bar to have a drink not saying I frequently go out because I'm comfortable sitting home but my point is just because some may take off there Masonic jewelry doesn't mean they all of a sudden stop being a Mason     what's to hide you think people aren't going to notice that liGht on the left hand corner of your automobile when you leave ???


No decals on my car.  Have you seen the way I drive?


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## Ripcord22A

Glen Cook said:


> No decals on my car.  Have you seen the way I drive?


I havent, but your old amd a lawyer so i can only imagine....lol

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## Glen Cook

jdmadsenCraterlake211 said:


> I havent, but your old amd a lawyer so i can only imagine....lol
> 
> Sent from my LG-H811 using My Freemasonry Pro mobile app


I was given all those numbers on the speedometer to use.  I would be an ungrateful steward of the gifts I was given if I didn't use them. 

Now, I do have a military license plate.  They expect Navy guys to fly fast and low


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## Glen Cook

jdmadsenCraterlake211 said:


> I havent, but your old amd a lawyer so i can only imagine....lol
> 
> Sent from my LG-H811 using My Freemasonry Pro mobile app


My office car is a Chrysler 300C with a Hemi. My other car is a Porsche Carrera.  I rode an Indian Springfield.


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## Ripcord22A

Bwhahaha!

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## Warrior1256

Glen Cook said:


> No decals on my car.  Have you seen the way I drive?





jdmadsenCraterlake211 said:


> I havent, but your old amd a lawyer so i can only imagine....lol
> 
> Sent from my LG-H811 using My Freemasonry Pro mobile app


Always ganging up on the old guys? Let's get him Brother Glen. Lol


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## Glen Cook

Warrior1256 said:


> Always ganging up on the old guys? Let's get him Brother Glen. Lol


Just tell him to get off our lawn


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## mrpierce17

Glen Cook said:


> Just tell him to get off our lawn



Turn on your sprinkler system that aught to move him lol


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## Warrior1256

Glen Cook said:


> Just tell him to get off our lawn





mrpierce17 said:


> Turn on your sprinkler system that aught to move him lol


Sounds like a plan, lol.


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## mrpierce17

Warrior1256 said:


> Always ganging up on the old guys? Let's get him Brother Glen. Lol



I like using the word seasoned as opposed to old


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## Warrior1256

mrpierce17 said:


> I like using the word seasoned as opposed to old


True, also mature or experienced, lol.


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## Winter

I don't get older. I level up. Currently level 44. Only a few more XP to reach the next level!

Transmitted via my R5 astromech.


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## Brother JC

365 XP per level? I have 29 XP to go till level 58!


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## Mark Stockdale

I think on this one we have it better than the USA, as most if not all Scottish lodges have a bar, which is opened for the Harmony (what you guys would call the Festive Board), after the meeting has closed, it also helps us to hire the halls out for functions and is a source of income for the lodges.


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## Rifleman1776

As with most issues there is more than one side. My observation is that institutions that serve alcohol (Elks, VFW, Moose, etc.) are the ones that thrive and gain membership. OTOH, our local VFW has a reputation for having trouble getting the official meetings started because no one wants to leave the bar.


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## Winter

Rifleman1776 said:


> As with most issues there is more than one side. My observation is that institutions that serve alcohol (Elks, VFW, Moose, etc.) are the ones that thrive and gain membership. OTOH, our local VFW has a reputation for having trouble getting the official meetings started because no one wants to leave the bar.


My Lodge has a bar. And there has never been an incident or issue. Either with behavior or attendance. If we are behaving as Masons then the issue doesn't even come up and the warden doesn't need to even perform his duties to see the craft does not convert the means of refreshment into intemperance or excess. 

If a Lodge does have issue because they have alcohol there, then I would say the problem is with the Lodge. Not the alcohol. 

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## coachn

Travelling Man91 said:


> Against it. *What does alcohol have to do with freemasonry ?* Why not leave the Lodge and go have a drink. I'm so tired of seeing brothers post pictures with Masonic emblems on while drinking. Sorry, off my rant now
> 
> Sent from my 831C using My Freemasonry Pro mobile app



LOL!  Freemasonry grew up in *ale houses* and *taverns*.  They were Freemasonry's wombs!  Alcohol was Freemasonry's amniotic fluid!   Alcohol has EVERYTHING to do with Freemasonry!


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## Warrior1256

coachn said:


> LOL! Freemasonry grew up in *ale houses* and *taverns*. Alcohol has EVERYTHING to do with Freemasonry!


Sounds good to me! A TOAST TO FREEMASONRY!!!!!!


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## Glen Cook

coachn said:


> LOL!  Freemasonry grew up in *ale houses* and *taverns*.  Alcohol has EVERYTHING to do with Freemasonry!


Indeed, that’s where my lodge met for over a hundred years. https://www.dhi.ac.uk/lane/record.php?ID=1561


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## Bill Lins

Rifleman1776 said:


> our local VFW has a reputation for having trouble getting the official meetings started because no one wants to leave the bar.


Mebbe they should just have the meetings IN the bar!


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## rpbrown

Just think how fast a Stated Meeting would be over if there were drinks afterwards 

On another note though, if a lodge had a bar and someone let intoxicated, had an accident and injured or worse someone else (or himself for that matter) in Texas I believe the lodge could be held liable.


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## Winter

rpbrown said:


> Just think how fast a Stated Meeting would be over if there were drinks afterwards
> 
> On another note though, if a lodge had a bar and someone let intoxicated, had an accident and injured or worse someone else (or himself for that matter) in Texas I believe the lodge could be held liable.


I'm going to sound like a broken record. If we are behaving as Masons, the issue never comes up.  If Brothers cannot remember their Ob. Because they had a glass after Losge them there are other issues. 

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## rpbrown

Winter said:


> I'm going to sound like a broken record. If we are behaving as Masons, the issue never comes up.  If Brothers cannot remember their Ob. Because they had a glass after Losge them there are other issues.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk



Although I do agree with you, I have seen people have 1 drink, be fine but get into an accident. Doesn't have to even be their fault. Just saying as sue happy as everyone in this country seems to be, you never know


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## Winter

rpbrown said:


> Although I do agree with you, I have seen people have 1 drink, be fine but get into an accident. Doesn't have to even be their fault. Just saying as sue happy as everyone in this country seems to be, you never know


True. Sadly, this is the world we live in now.  

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## Mark Stockdale

Oh, we have the bar in the lodge, but it would never be open before a meeting, only after the meeting. The only exception to this would be at the annual installation, when the bar is open during the proceedings for the brethren who are not part of the installing board.


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## Bloke

Rifleman1776 said:


> As with most issues there is more than one side. My observation is that institutions that serve alcohol (Elks, VFW, Moose, etc.) are the ones that thrive and gain membership. OTOH, our local VFW has a reputation for having trouble getting the official meetings started because no one wants to leave the bar.


It can be an issue actually.. but I would not blame the booze because many often only have a cup of tea or coffee.. the problem is not generally the booze, it is the conversation.. what is interesting is our members now turn up about 30 mins to an hour early to break open a bottle of wine and chat. What's also interesting, is knowing there will be no cold beer at that point, many bring a cold 6 pack to share... I'd rather start a happy lodge 10 mins late than a grumpy one on time.... but people do move upstairs because they know if we start 30 mins late, it means dinner will start 30 minutes later... the real issue is probably the guy who turns up 5 minutes before lodge and pours himself a drink or starts to make a coffee.. Maybe we should call last drinks before the meeting starts.. that's probably a good idea.. or get them upstairs beside the lodge room - but that splits the smokers and nonsmokers..


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## Mark Stockdale

Bloke said:


> but that splits the smokers and nonsmokers



One good thing about the smoking ban in the UK, is that smokers have to go outside to light up, and with our weather it's a perfect reason to stay indoors.


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