# Dressing Down And Blimping Up -- A Reflection of Freemasonry



## Bro_Vick (Jun 12, 2012)

We have had a couple of heated discussions on this board regarding the lack of formal wear, or heck normal wear in a lodge building.  WM wearing shorts and flip-flops at a stated meeting, etc.  The tired old argument of "It is the internal, not the external..." is used a catch phrase as common as "whateva, whateva, I do what I want!"

Article from Forbes on the Dressing Down and Blimping Up of America

So I have a couple questions for the members here.  Is the lack of formal wear within the fraternity a by-product of laziness within the craft or is it second order effects from a society that has taken up being "casual" as some delusional form of "Freedom of Speech"?

Can't say both as that is too easy, while both are involved, which of it is a major contributor to it?  

S&F,
-Bro Vick


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## Cigarzan (Jun 12, 2012)

*The following is a statement of personal opinion and in no way is intended to disparage differing thoughts*

This is Texas. In view of that enlightening statement, let me put this forward. Jeans, a nice shirt and proper footwear (boots!) are fine and dandy for lodge. I believe that shows proper decorum. If the Brethren want to wear something nicer they are surely welcome to do it. If the officers want to wear a suit or slacks and a sport coat for installation, more power to 'em. It would be a mistake to require Masons to dress up for lodge. My church doesn't tell me what to wear and neither should my WM. The day I'm required to suit up for lodge will be the day I become one of the guys that you wish you could demit by a vote of the lodge! 

So I don't think it's laziness. We Texans are, for the most part, fiercely independent and just ain't nobody, nowhere gonna tell us what to wear! If I was a member of a lodge in one of those high falutin' jurisdictions, I'd prolly feel different about it. I'd have known I gotta be all fancy and take it or leave it!

I will say, however, If a guy shows up in shorts and a tee with flip flops I doubt he'll be well received. Shorts aren't allowed in the courthouse. Against the peace and dignity of that august locale, dontcha know. Dignity and all. There is something to be said for that. And there is such a thing as taking something too far.


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## A7V (Jun 12, 2012)

I spent 10 years in the Navy being told when and how to dress and now that I am out I wouldn't touch a suit with a ten foot pole, reminds me too much of a uniform.   

I don't think a regular blue lodge should have a formal dress requirement but a minimum should be stated, that minimum should be middle of the road and not a suit and tie or else.   I think most people would agree to no shorts and no flip flops.

I don't have an issue with "special" lodges requiring a suit or tux, something like a traditional observance or research lodge doing it is fine.   You have to really want to join those lodges for what they do differently and if you do buying and wearing a suit won't bother you.


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## A7V (Jun 12, 2012)

Bro_Vick said:


> So I have a couple questions for the members here.  Is the lack of formal wear within the fraternity a by-product of laziness within the craft or is it second order effects from a society that has taken up being "casual" as some delusional form of "Freedom of Speech"?



I certainly do not feel that it is any type of laziness in Freemasonry, but more of societal norms moving in this direction.  This may be a stretch but I am sure that people in the 1950's who by today's standards were always formally and over dressed would look at the Victorian era much the same way, with the attitude of how could they wear that it looks so uncomfortable etc.

Also, I don't feel it is delusional to think your style of dress is a form of Freedom of Speech.  For many dressing casual is a way of trying to break free from the stodgy constraints of corporate America or ideals of the 50's.

I think the overall reason why people don't dress up as much is because we have been told since for decades that the outside isn't what is important and recently we are seeing billionaires and major internet companies that let employees wear anything they want and are highly successful, this only hammers that in to people.

I know in my case that I have full sleeve tattoos and wear long sleeves at work, and usually when people find out I am heavily tattooed they can't believe it because "I work so hard" as if people with tattoos don't work hard.   So it is all stereotypes and judgement and hopefully all of it will be broken down.    

As you can tell, I don't believe in the "the clothes make the man" nonsense


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## Cigarzan (Jun 12, 2012)

A7V said:


> I spent 10 years in the Navy being told when and how to dress and now that I am out I wouldn't touch a suit with a ten foot pole, reminds me too much of a uniform.
> 
> 
> > I feel yer pain! I was in the Texas Highway Patrol for 26 years and wore the same clothing and haircut every single day.  NO SUIT FOR YOU!!!  (Suit Nazi)  hahaha


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## JJones (Jun 12, 2012)

I say it's mostly society's fault but laziness plays a role as well.  When I go to church and people I've known most of my life look at my suit and ask if I'm supposed to preach, I blame society.  When people say suits are too much trouble or say they can't afford one (they can) then I blame laziness.

I know this is Texas and there's a certain pride in our independence, I also know that's not likely to change any time too soon.  I'd ask, however, if certain values like that are worth keeping if they're holding us back from taking pride in our appearance or, heaven forbid, attending a lodge due to their dress code.

I had to wear uniforms in the Air Force and I hated it at the time, so I can understand that, but I've grown to really appreciate what a suit can do for a man.  This was something older generations understood as well, I've seen pictures of homeless men during the Great Depression that still managed to dress nicer than most folks today.

/rant :6:


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## A7V (Jun 12, 2012)

JJones said:


> I know this is Texas and there's a certain pride in our independence, I also know that's not likely to change any time too soon.  I'd ask, however, if certain values like that are worth keeping if they're holding us back from taking pride in our appearance or, heaven forbid, attending a lodge due to their dress code.



What makes you think we don't take pride in our appearance because we don't wear a suit?  I shave and cut my hair, I wear nice clothes. they aren't stained or ragged.   



JJones said:


> I had to wear uniforms in the Air Force and I hated it at the time, so I can understand that, but I've grown to really appreciate what a suit can do for a man.



Now this is interesting because I know many good people who distrust a man in a suit.   Judgement goes both ways sadly.


There is no end to this argument, I have been around this forum since 2009 and seen countless threads on dress.  I almost wish we would put a moratorium on the conversation


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## A7V (Jun 12, 2012)

Brothers,

I don't know why this subject ruffles my feathers so much but I will try to make this my last post on the subject.

If we are supposed to be equals in the lodge including the officers; why does it matter what anyone wears?

If you truly believe that a Brother who has gone through the same process as you to become a Mason and sit in lodge with you as your equal why would you give a second thought to what he wears?  The man in the 1000$ suit and the man in thrift store jeans are both our Brothers and deserve the same respect.

Outsiders can't sit in lodge and see how we dress so they can't be the reason we care, a visitor from another lodge shouldn't care because once again he is sitting in a lodge with his Brothers, his equals.

FREEMASONRY is a great equalizer amongst men, princes sit in lodge with trash collecters, with the same authority.  Why are we arguing over clothing unless we are worried about being better or lower than our other Brothers and that is not acceptable.


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## Bro_Vick (Jun 12, 2012)

Cigarzan said:


> We Texans are, for the most part, fiercely independent and just ain't nobody, nowhere gonna tell us what to wear! If I was a member of a lodge in one of those high falutin' jurisdictions, I'd prolly feel different about it. I'd have known I gotta be all fancy and take it or leave it!



You are being entirely too defensive about this, if you read the article, it talks about a man who showed up in slacks, and a button down shirt to a college graduation where people were wearing bathing suits.  His point was that our casual attitude has gone too far, no where did I write that you have to wear a suit (I dare you to point out otherwise).  My point is that all the time you see this over casual attitude bleed into Freemasonry and it is excused away (similar in the fashion that you did).  Is it being excused away within the craft that putting on a pair of pants and a clean shirt to lodge, is entirely too much to ask.  Or do people have respect for the Work but show up and  look like they did a day of yard work, or coming in from the pool.

Dressing appropriately for the occasion is lost on Americans (yes, Texas is part of America), period.  Showing up to a formal wedding wearing a "You know if your a redneck" shirt and ripped jeans is disrespectful to the host, not a course of freedom of speech, and not a "Texas Thing".  The "Its Texas" is a thinly veiled excuse for not having what some would call respect for the event.

We had a black tie event, that was clearly marked black tie, and a few showed up in jeans and a t-shirt, sorry, but that is a lack of respect for the event.  There are far more Masonic events that one can show up in a t-shirt and jeans than to a formal event, and when approached we get the "It's the inner not the outer..."  When they could of easily not have come.

The Craft has become a victim to the over casual attitude and excuses it away as "It is the inner not the outer...", and lodges that dare to have any type of standard of a dress code you refer to as "high falutin' jurisdictions".

So I will ask again, the over casual attitude in Masonic lodges, is it a product of laziness within the craft or societal norms in a lack of "dressing for an event"?

S&F,
-Bro Vick


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## Cigarzan (Jun 12, 2012)

Bro. Vick, I think we are agreeing. I had read the article and agree with the point of the author. As I stated in my original post, "there is such a thing as taking something too far." As far as being defensive, I apologize for sounding so. I was having a little fun while responding and my intent was misunderstood, which is entirely my fault. 

Maybe my experience is different from what others have seen or heard, but I have never seen anyone come to any lodge I have ever sat in except in acceptable attire. Agreed. No one, especially a WM or his rep should show up to lodge clad in beachwear! Now then...I still ain't wearin' no suits! 


Peace and Harmony prevailing (I hope!),

KD


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## chrmc (Jun 12, 2012)

Being from Europe originally, but having lived in Texas for several years, I think a lot of the issue comes down to cultural differences. 
Good or bad Texas is not that formal a place. You rarely see people wearing ties, even in business, and dressing up to go out to eat or the theater is not something that is done as much down here compared to some other places in the world. 
I think that this reflects over to the attire worn in lodge. If you are generally not used to suiting up, or wearubg a tux for that matter you are less likely to do so. 

Personally I like a standard being set for stated, but it should reflect the place and culture. I'm personally in favor for suit and tie for stated meetings, as I think it lends itself to a greater respect and reverence, also but don't mind short and a t-shirt for normal instruction nights. 

What I do however think is important is that new brothers are coached when you see them in lodge. If a guy is showing up in a sleeveless shirts and flip flops when the lodge culture is different, have one of the officers pull him aside politely and point out what he may want to wear. Dresscode does not come naturally to many people, so helping is probably appreciated.


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## Bro_Vick (Jun 13, 2012)

A7V said:


> If we are supposed to be equals in the lodge including the officers; why does it matter what anyone wears?



You also missed my point, my point wasn't that we should wear tuxs to lodge, my point is that Freemasons are quick to dress down for an event or not bother dressing appropriately at all.  If that is the case, is this a reflection of society or is this laziness within the Craft?  If a lodge permits their members to wear bathing suits and use a kiddie pool as an alter, that is their lodge culture.  It's when there are outside Masonic events or other lodges that have a suit and tie requirement and that lodge shows up in bathing suits, claiming as you just did "If we are suppose to be equals..." and in essence crash the event with complete lack of respect for the host.  It has gotten to the point when I hear the "It is the inner not the outter..." in our work I want to role my eyes over it.

If you don't agree with wearing a suit, then simply don't go to those events, it saves everybody some unwanted drama.



A7V said:


> Why are we arguing over clothing unless we are worried about being better or lower than our other Brothers and that is not acceptable.



Because as a Mason you should be respectful enough of lodges and events that do have a standard and not show up to those events like you just did yard work, and have respect for your brothers that do have a dress code.  Not show up dressed down as a matter of free speech and disrespect the hosts and your brother.

S&F,
-Bro Vick


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## Michaelstedman81 (Jun 13, 2012)

Bro_Vick said:


> So I have a couple questions for the members here.  Is the lack of formal wear within the fraternity a by-product of laziness within the craft or is it second order effects from a society that has taken up being "casual" as some delusional form of "Freedom of Speech"?
> 
> Can't say both as that is too easy, while both are involved, which of it is a major contributor to it?


 
First of all, for some reason the author of that article just annoyed the tar out of me...lol  As for my opinion, I don't think really anyone puts on what they choose to wear that day and says to themselves "This is me expressing my right to free speech".  But you really can't answer this question without admitting that is is a combination of the laziness in the craft and society both.  Like you said, both are involved, but I think looking at things from a "direct or indirect" approach both contribute more.

Indirectly, I think that society contributes more.  Whether it is "Freedom of speech", comfort, style, or whatever, society being lazy is the reason we have migrated to attending everything casual.  Society has allowed people to start showing up to these kinds of events in less and less "dress to impress" clothes, so now folks are showing up in sandals to a graduation ceremony.  People don't care anymore, or at least as much as they should.  Though, I really highly doubt that that graduation ceremony was nearly as bad as that author made it sound (he made it sound like he was the onlly doggone person there dressed up). I don't know, this part is kind of hard because you do have some people that just are plain lazy and don't care, and then you have some that actually did take time to get dressed and believe they look good and presentable for an event like that wearing cargo shorts, a button up shirt, and flip flops, but that is just the way specific trends are.  Some guys will wearing those BAGGY jeans sagging below their butt, baggy shirt, and a ball cap turned half sideways with the pricetag still on it....To them, that IS dressed up and looking nice.  That is just the culture of that person.  There just seems to be no more set standards that are across the board...

As for directly contributing to things, I think the lodge is more at fault.  I gotta tell you.  I believe whole heartedly in the whole thing of the internal vs. external.  I really could care less what this guy wears, or what kid of shoes this guy has on.  In fact, I absolutely hate when I have to wear shoes haha.  If I could get away with wearing shorts and flip flops or my Vibram Five Fingers for the rest of my life, I would...lol  BUT, when I go to lodge I do try to dress up and look decent for meetings.  Practice, I'll do my normal thing, but for Stated or Called meetings, I will make sure that I am wearing jeans, shoes, and a button up or a collared shirt.  At least.  Sometimes I do the kahkis thing.  I will not wear shorts and sandals to official meetings, but I have been to a couple of lodges where they would have a couple Brothers dressed like that.  It is the lodges fault because they allowed this kind of stuff to happen, and then you get new young Masons coming seeing this and they think that it is all good to do it, so pretty soon they are doing it, and even involving whatever style they are into.

For an organization that is supposed to hold true to the fact that the internal is what is important, I think that it would be a bit hard for them come out and have some sort of standard guidance on what is to be worn without losing a little face.  But, I do think that they should be able to say that you need to show up and dressed decent.  I have heard that a lot of the lodges over on the East Coast require the members to show up to meetings in a suit and tie.  Even heard that they have it at places where it has to be a black suit and tie.  I think that that would keep close to being true to the internal principle and being able to have the members for sure showing looking presentable because everyone is wearing the same thing.  BUT, I don't want that to be how it is here...lol  I like it how we have it.  I really haven't had too much of an issue about what a Brother wears to Lodge behind our doors.  Lol something public that you obviously need to be dressed to impress, or even a funeral and a Brother shows up in shorts.....  Not gonna happen, guy.  He can go home for all I care for not respecting the event....


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## Michaelstedman81 (Jun 13, 2012)

If you are attending a suit and tie event, or a "black tie event", common sense says don't show up in jeans.  Show up in a suit and tie.....lol  I'm all about being comfortable and wearing my shorts and flip flops whenever I can, BUT I do try to use common sense....lol


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## A7V (Jun 13, 2012)

Bro_Vick said:


> You also missed my point, my point wasn't that we should wear tuxs to lodge, my point is that Freemasons are quick to dress down for an event or not bother dressing appropriately at all.  If that is the case, is this a reflection of society or is this laziness within the Craft?  If a lodge permits their members to wear bathing suits and use a kiddie pool as an alter, that is their lodge culture.  It's when there are outside Masonic events or other lodges that have a suit and tie requirement and that lodge shows up in bathing suits, claiming as you just did "If we are suppose to be equals..." and in essence crash the event with complete lack of respect for the host.  It has gotten to the point when I hear the "It is the inner not the outter..." in our work I want to role my eyes over it.
> 
> If you don't agree with wearing a suit, then simply don't go to those events, it saves everybody some unwanted drama.
> 
> ...



I said I wasn't going to say anything else but this just bothers me.   This idea that dressing a certain way shows respect or disrespect is archaic and should have no place in our society. 

No one is disrespecting the craft by what they wear, they may be offending YOUR sensibilities but unless they start hopping up on the altar or eating chicken wings and rubbing their nasty hands all over the place, or yelling how much they hate Masons and everyone in the lodge, the way they are dressed is not disrespect.     

The craft is not about clothes, or black tie events or fundraisers.    Black tie events and dress codes are just a form of discrimination and have little or nothing to do with Freemasonry.    It is about seeking Light and Brotherhood.   Last time I checked, I could be wearing a fig leaf and still participate in being a good Brother and seeking more Light.   

People want more people to become Masons, you want more people to come to the stated meetings but when they come you want to bitch about how they look!!!   This same thing happens with churches, they only want you there to save your soul if you can dress the way they think someone whose soul deserves to be saved should dress.    The Bible doesn't say anything about how you should dress to come to church and I can't find any documents that state how a Mason should dress to come to stated meeting.

This joke about proper attire reminds me of this whole thing



> One Sunday morning an old cowboy entered a church just before services were to begin. Although the old man and his clothes were spotlessly clean, he wore jeans, a denim shirt and boots that were very worn and ragged. In his hand he carried a worn out old hat and an equally worn out old bible. The church he entered was in a very upscale and exclusive part of the city. It was the largest and most beautiful church the old cowboy had ever seen. It had high cathedral ceilings, ornate statues, beautiful murals and stained glass windows, plush carpet, and velvet like cushioned pews. The building must have cost many millions of dollars to build and maintain. The men, women and children of the congregation were all dressed in the finest and most expensive suits, dresses, shoes, and jewelry the old cowboy had ever witnessed.
> 
> As the poorly dressed cowboy took a seat the others moved away from him. No one greeted him. No one welcomed him. No one offered a handshake. No one spoke to him. They were all appalled at his appearance and did not attempt to hide the fact. There were many glances in his direction as the others frowned and
> commented among themselves about his shabby attire. A few chuckles and giggles came from some of the younger members.
> ...


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## Bro_Vick (Jun 13, 2012)

A7V said:


> I said I wasn't going to say anything else but this just bothers me.   This idea that dressing a certain way shows respect or disrespect is archaic and should have no place in our society.



Well at least it doesn't piss you off anymore.  I know it is hard dealing with people that have different values than you do, even worse when they have a shared common interest.  I have tried to be respectful towards your view point and I get nothing from you but how my value system is intrinsically bigoted because I expect people to respect a request who claim they are my brothers.

I don't buy the whole "discrimination" case as I got a tux from Goodwill for $75 including the shirt, bow tie and cumberbun , where there are stores that sell t-shirts by Alexander McQueen for $250, so it is a matter of priority and taste, not of means.  



A7V said:


> The Bible doesn't say anything about how you should dress to come to church and I can't find any documents that state how a Mason should dress to come to stated meeting.



By-Laws of my lodge are written that for stated meetings member will wear a coat and tie and visitors will be in business casual.  As a duly and regular constituted lodge, it is a document that states how a Mason will be dressed to come to a stated meeting.

Regarding eating chicken at the alter, there are some strange things a foot in my home state of Colorado. 

S&F,
-Bro Vick


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## tomasball (Jun 13, 2012)

A7V said:


> I don't have an issue with "special" lodges requiring a suit or tux, something like a traditional observance or research lodge doing it is fine.   You have to really want to join those lodges for what they do differently and if you do buying and wearing a suit won't bother you.



I think my lodge is special.  My dress reflects my feelings.


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## A7V (Jun 13, 2012)

tomasball said:


> I think my lodge is special.  My dress reflects my feelings.



I'm sure you do..


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## BryanMaloney (Jun 13, 2012)

Of course, there is also a rigid "non-dress code". When I first attended my mother-in-law's church, I wore a suit. That sort of dress is what I am comfortable in when it comes to Church. I was accused of trying to act superior, because I didn't conform to the local "non-dress" code.


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## Star Mztyk (Jun 13, 2012)

.....I looked at our Wall of Honor (Past Masters)....and I saw back to 1855 that one PM had a pic of railroad overalls. We keep all our old Bylaws that of course are suppose to be revised ever so often and never saw anything about dress codes. Most of the pics during the early decades of the 20th century were suit and tie. During that time, they were the high faluting of our community....and we  to a lesser degree still are those of high regard. As I understand dress.....everything is internal and only the apron is worn external. Several of us are present at every Masonic funeral.....I wear a suit and tie...I rarely wear bluejeans.....our Chaplain is always in his overalls and I would not recognize him in any other dress.

    Light N Up... and as  a joke....You will not find me at an outdoor degree.....at a Nudist colony.... during the dead of winter.


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## S.Courtemanche (Jun 15, 2012)

A7V said:


> Bro_Vick said:
> 
> 
> > So I have a couple questions for the members here.  Is the lack of formal wear within the fraternity a by-product of laziness within the craft or is it second order effects from a society that has taken up being "casual" as some delusional form of "Freedom of Speech"?
> ...



Like you I am sleeved and wear long sleeves and see the same reaction as you brother.


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## Michaelstedman81 (Jun 15, 2012)

S.Courtemanche said:


> Like you I am sleeved and wear long sleeves and see the same reaction as you brother.



Bro. Courtemanche (and A7V, if you want to answer as well, I know you have been trying to exit the conversation), what kind of reaction do you get from your lodge Brothers when they saw that you have full sleeves?  What is their reaction now after getting used to you with them?  Or do you wear long sleeve shirts every time your at lodge, including practice nights?

I only ask because the two lodges that I have been a member of, I havne't gotten negative feelings said to me about my tatttoos.  Granted, mine aren't full sleeves, but if I don't wear a long sleeve shirt, your going to notice them.  I have what I guess you can call a "quarter sleeve" or a "half sleeve".  I mean my whole arm is tattooed, except using my blank skin as the artwork.  On my other arm, I have my crossed sabers just above my elbow.  Pretty obvious stuff.  But I have never once had anyone at lodge say anything to me about it or look twice at it.  A Brother of mine that got initiated a couple weeks before I did back in 2006 had a full sleeve.  He was worried about everyone seeing it during his initiation, but nothing has been said about anything.  At least not to our faces lol.  I'm just curious to know if the Brothers in ya'lls lodge were pretty relaxed about tattoos being visible at lodge during meetings and practices.


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## S.Courtemanche (Jun 16, 2012)

Bro Mike absolutely none from the brothers from the first time that I met them and still have not had an issue. 

I get more of a reaction from individuals that I work with. I work for Booz Allen Hamilton and they are a pretty top firm out there in the contracting world. For the most part my counterparts wear suits throughout the Firm. It's funny because the subject came up during a visit to McLean VA (Tyson's Corner) this past week on the second day about three hours into the day I rolled my sleeves up and glanced around as I always do and caught one female an two guys frowning at me, when they realize that they were caught (I smiled at them in a knowing way)! The female and one guy were obviously embarrassed (the female it turns out had a tat on her back) the other guy turned instantly arrogant for the remainder of the day. I have learned to deal with people such as these and I just smile at them. 

As for dressing up in lodge, I do when it's warranted. I wear jeans and a button up long sleeved shirt for called and stated meetings. Practice jeans a a tasteful t-shirt or polo.


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## Ashlar (Jun 16, 2012)

I will be honest , I was once a member here under a different name and left in a huff over this subject , I have even gotten into a huff over not long ago . But my tune has changed since then and let me tell you why .

A little background first .... I am a member of two different lodges , one country and one city . Now my country lodge is full of country boys and I know there is no way I could ever get them into a suit and tie for degree work . I am a PM and current Master and it is one battle I knew I would not win so I left it alone so I would turn the brethren against me .

In my second lodge , I will be Master next year and I told them that I will be instituting a dress code . Suit and ties during degree work for all officers , candidates deserve the best we have to offer and suit and ties look great and leave a lasting impression . 

Now why I changed my mind , a couple of young Masons told me how disappointed they were when , after their MM OB , they were brought to light and there stood the Master in a t-shirt , dirty jeans and flip flops . I was always of the mind that we should , at the very least , wear slacks , dress shoes and a polo shirt but that was beyond the pale and I have heard stories that are much worse . I told myself and my lodge officers that this will not happen in our lodge . Now for stated meetings , I instituted the uniform of slacks (no jeans) , dress shoes and a very nice button down lodge shirt for all officers . We will all look uniform and be comfortable while listening to the minutes and paying the bills .


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## Michaelstedman81 (Jun 16, 2012)

Our incoming WM addressed myself (the JW-elect) and the SW-Elect about and idea that he had for this coming Masonic year.  All three principle officers will wear at least khakis with a jacket, or a suit to all the Stated Meetings and called meetings of importance.  He even went and bought all three of us the same tie with the S&C on it.  I'm pretty excited about us doing it.

(Just adding something that I was pretty excited about since Ashlar brought up something like it)


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## Cigarzan (Jun 17, 2012)

Aww, skip it.


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## SeeKer.mm (Jun 17, 2012)

My lodge we where jacket and tie, I like to wear a black suit.  The officers a,ll wear tuxedos, The last stated meeting before summer break...we wear Hawaiian Shirts, shorts and flip flops and hold a Ham and pineapple dinner prior to opening.


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## Ashlar (Jun 17, 2012)

I have read the other posts and Cigarzan , I DO see your point . It IS according to where the lodge is located .

Like I said , my mother lodge is a country lodge . It is a blue jeans and work boots lodge , we are far out in the country and do not receive visitors from other states or the GL officers . I am the only member who wears a jacket and tie to degree work , but they are just country boys ( so am I for that matter but...) and I would not want them any other way . Most all of our candidates come from the same area so they come in knowing all these brethren and do not expect suits or tuxes .

My city lodge is the jewel of the district , it is huge and beautiful , and smack dab in the middle of town . We get visitors from all over , we get many visits from Grand Lodge officers  so we (will) dress to impress .

We all want different things out of Freemasonry and I hold nothing against brethren who want to show up to lodge in CLEAN jeans , a nice shirts and cowboy boots . Let's face it , I do not want to wear a tuxedo to lodge myself , but if other Masons do , then that is their prerogative .

I will go out on a limb and say that cut off blue jeans/shorts , tank tops and flip flops have no place in any lodge UNLESS there is a special occasion as stated above by SeekerMM for a special "dress down" meeting .


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## Bro_Vick (Jun 17, 2012)

Ashlar said:


> a couple of young Masons told me how disappointed they were when , after their MM OB , they were brought to light and there stood the Master in a t-shirt , dirty jeans and flip flops .



Yeah, didn't you tell him "This is Freemasonry!  It's the inner not the outer that counts, this ain't some 'high falutin' jurisdiction'."  Really I have heard it before from some brothers that have gone through, that it was lacking and was upset about the way it was executed, or the lack of protocol, the top three gripes I have heard from newly raised brothers, include:

1)  Lack of formalitity during the ritual - Dress is a big issue, but also lack of respect for the event.  I just witnessed an EA where one of PMs talked during the entire ritual to a visiting brother.  I mean, clearly the candidate heard it during the circle of ablation, completely disrespectful.  We have to understand as Master Masons or Past Masters, you may have seen the degree a million times, but the candidate is seeing it for the first, and we have a responsibility to make it special for them.  Joking, screwing around or holding conversation during the event shows disrespect towards the work.

2)  Forgetting the name of the candidate, this has to be one of the worse Master Mason degrees I ever witnessed.   The District degree team came and did this degree on a brother, when our lodge was completely capable of doing it (his mentor wanted it this way).  The acting Senior Deacon completely forgot his name, and made one up!  Seriously, can you imagine going through the degree and the Senior Deacon makes up a name for you?

3)  The Lecture -- Men who read the lecture as if they are reading from a book, and is so fast the candidate can't even start to get the message.  Great you got your cert, but can you at least slow down and show some enthusiasm?  

As much as I dislike Patton as a leader, he had a good point.  When men can't dress themselves appropriately, you can't give them greater responsibility.  When a man enters Freemasonry he has already given a lot more than 95% of his peers would do, we owe it to him to make it as special as possible, in dress, work, and decorum. 

Individuals here have accused me of me wanting nothing more than a social club, but that is farther from the truth.  Go to Goodwill or another second hand store and buy a freakin' suit when you are putting the degree on.  It means a lot to the candidate and will be a good investment in the Fraternity.  

S&F,
-Bro Vick


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## SeeKer.mm (Jun 17, 2012)

@ Bro Vick...HERE HERE!!!


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## JJones (Jun 17, 2012)

> 2) Forgetting the name of the candidate, this has to be one of the worse Master Mason degrees I ever witnessed. The District degree team came and did this degree on a brother, when our lodge was completely capable of doing it (his mentor wanted it this way). The acting Senior Deacon completely forgot his name, and made one up! Seriously, can you imagine going through the degree and the Senior Deacon makes up a name for you?



I recently attended an EA in a nearby lodge that I hadn't visited before.  They had a dry-erase board in the east with the candidate's name on it...if you can't remember his name, look east.  Problem solved.


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## Michaelstedman81 (Jun 18, 2012)

JJones said:


> I recently attended an EA in a nearby lodge that I hadn't visited before.  They had a dry-erase board in the east with the candidate's name on it...if you can't remember his name, look east.  Problem solved.



Lol we could have used that idea the other night.


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## SeeKer.mm (Jun 30, 2012)

Happy to say my lodge brothers remembered my name during my recent 3rd degree


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