# 25 British-born Muslims are plotting to bomb airliners...



## Blake Bowden (Dec 28, 2009)

Lovely...

Cops fear 25 British-born Muslims are plotting to bomb Western airliners | The Sun |News


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## Bill Lins (Dec 28, 2009)

It's past time we quit screwing around and began profiling as we should have been doing all along. Political correctness will be our undoing if we remain "stuck on STUPID"!


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## Hippie19950 (Dec 28, 2009)

One of the local news stations (KBTX) put up a poll and asked if the viewers thought the TSA was doing a good enough job after the Christmas Day event. Hmm, not sure OUR TSA missed the guy. Have not checked to see if WE provide them in other countries to check passengers coming to the U.S. As for me, I used to love to fly, and may have to do it again someday to visit family in other states, but at this point in time, it is far too complicated to get on board a plane to make a legitimate trip. My reason for flying in the near future is to avoid long trips contributing to sever back pain. I can't stand in line as long as they require now, and pretty much takes away from the reason for flying... I do expect safety for all who do fly, but there has to be a better, and faster way to do this. I was able to get in the military faster!! But, back to the point: The U.S. is going to have to take a stand as mentioned. We either get after this stuff, and make it work, or give up. I DON"T GIVE UP!!! I had to take 40 hours of classes every two years as a Texas Peace Officer, so I would not offend a CROOK. What about the countless people he offended, when he robbed, raped, or killed them? And now it's extended to Terrorists. Many, this has been a night of rants for me, sorry Brothers...


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## Blake Bowden (Dec 29, 2009)

Bill_Lins77488 said:


> It's past time we quit screwing around and began profiling as we should have been doing all along. Political correctness will be our undoing if we remain "stuck on STUPID"!


 
Absolutely.


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## JTM (Dec 29, 2009)

anything we do can be countered easily, including profiling.  i'm scared of what my profile would be, anyway.

"General distrust for govt"
"Willingness to voice criticism off the cuff"
"Pissed off Texan"
"10 guns in his house"

etc etc etc.


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## Bill Lins (Dec 29, 2009)

I rest my case.  :wink:


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## drapetomaniac (Dec 30, 2009)

Bill_Lins77488 said:


> It's past time we quit screwing around and began profiling as we should have been doing all along. Political correctness will be our undoing if we remain "stuck on STUPID"!


 
How do you profile a Muslim?

Most are Asian. The failed underpants bombers was Nigerian.

I shaved my beard on 911 specifically because of this idea.  Luckily I wasn't Sikh, as many were murdered due to idiotic profiling and anger.

What other profiling should we do?
Nation & World: 60 right-wing terror plots foiled - US News and World Report
SPLC report: The "Second Wave" of militia activity is now upon us | Crooks and Liars

I remember when the Oklahoma bombing happened, everyone in my building was yelling "damn muslims" even though it was the anniversary of Ruby Ridge, which was mentioned on the news in the morning and forgotten by the time another excuse to for lazy xenophobia to rear up.

I guess lessons learned in the first degree about outward qualifications only apply to the lodge room.

I'm not impressed with the idea that because I look Arab at times, I should be treated different than a guy who looks like like the Oklahoma bomber, the Shoe Bomber or a huge number of domestic terrorists.

But thanks anyway brothers.


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## drapetomaniac (Dec 30, 2009)

By the way, security profiling who aren't political pundits don't generally accept profiling
Schneier on Security: Profiling

Behavioral and complete individual profiling (investigation) is how you can accurately tell and predict.  Anything else is lazy idiocy in most situations.

This thread is about 25 men, and the solution is to profile about a third of the worlds population (Muslims) plus Arabs who aren't Muslim plus any Black or Asian or might be Muslim..  Sound productive?


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## Blake Bowden (Dec 30, 2009)

I remember awhile back the family and I were in Denver airport and we were one of those "random" families who were thoroughly searched. They made my us wake up my 12 month old baby and get him out of his stroller and examined us up and down. Now, I haven't seen anyone in a baby stroller behead soldiers or fly planes into buildings but if they did, I would understand targeting people such as myself. Instead of political correctness, we should implement some of the tactics used by EL AL. Some of these include passenger profiling, rigorous questioning and psychological evaluations. Yup, profiling sucks, but EL AL is also one the safest airlines in the world.

Drape, you make a good case though..:thumbup1: I just find these random searches politically motived and not really effective.


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## Bill Lins (Dec 31, 2009)

blake said:


> Drape, you make a good argument though..lol.


 
Not really. So far, the bad guys/girls tend to be from teens to early 40's. Why waste time & resources checking blue-haired Midwestern grandmas, infants, & others who OBVIOUSLY do not fit that profile? Only one who mentioned "Muslim" or "Arab" was drape.


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## Blake Bowden (Dec 31, 2009)

He mentioned "Muslim" because that was the subject of the article.


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## drapetomaniac (Dec 31, 2009)

blake said:


> I just find these random searches politically motived and not really effective.


 
All of the security airlines actions are politically motivated.  In many cases, random searches are more effective than profiling.

Cuba is also safe (except for when attacked by a guy on our payroll).  North Korea and similar countries are very safe domestically.


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## drapetomaniac (Dec 31, 2009)

Bill_Lins77488 said:


> Not really. So far, the bad guys/girls tend to be from teens to early 40's. Why waste time & resources checking blue-haired Midwestern grandmas, infants, & others who OBVIOUSLY do not fit that profile? Only one who mentioned "Muslim" or "Arab" was drape.


 
What kind of profiling were you suggesting earlier that we do that we aren't right now due to political correctness?

Infants have a history of being used in attacks - BTW.  I recommend checking out out domestic terrorism history for "others" we might not think about.


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## Traveling Man (Dec 31, 2009)

drapetomaniac said:


> Sound productive?



Is profiling productive, let's see here shall we?

The safest airline in the world, it is widely agreed, is El Al, Israel’s national carrier. The safest airport is Ben Gurion International, in Tel Aviv. No El Al plane has been attacked by terrorists in more than three decades, and no flight leaving Ben Gurion has ever been hijacked. What are the Israelis doing that we aren’t?

The Israelis understand that it is the people who are threats, not the objects that they are carrying.
Airports in the United States and many other countries are built around convenience while in Israel it’s all about security. We get our boarding passes online and check our baggage at the curb.

At T.S.A. checkpoints, youths stare at screens, doing the best they can to not look at nor talk to us.

Contrast this with an Israeli airport where you stay with your bags until your security check is complete, and airline and highly trained security personnel talk to you and watch you constantly. You’re not allowed to approach the ticket counter until you are cleared by the security system, while in the United States, security is an apparent afterthought.

Israeli airport security, much of it invisible to the untrained eye, begins before passengers even enter the terminal. Officials are constantly monitoring passengers’ behavior, alert to clues that may hint at danger. 

Profilers make a point of interviewing travelers, sometimes at length, and oftentimes asking questions that don’t seem to make any sense at all — and that’s the idea. The point of the long questioning is to find inconsistencies in a terrorist’s cover story, or to agitate him into a panic. If you are lying or distracted by something, the profilers will soon figure that out, and you will be marked as a possible threat and action will be taken.

While the T.S.A. is busy confiscating cosmetics, small pocket knives and water bottles, the Israelis understand that it is the people who are threats, not the objects that they are carrying. To a much greater degree than in the United States, security at El Al depends on intelligence and intuition rather then performing rote actions.

In my opinion, the T.S.A. should be hiring ex-Mossad operatives as advisers and college-educated screeners with degrees in security or psychology. Is there a 100 percent guarantee of safety? No there is not. But in three decades, not one El Al plane has been attacked from within, and those are pretty good odds.

I was on a cruise not long ago in Israel where some baggage was not claimed after three requests over the public address system. The result? The Mossad blew the luggage up! 

Me thinks the proof is in the pudding...


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## drapetomaniac (Dec 31, 2009)

Traveling Man said:


> Is profiling productive, let's see here shall we?
> ...
> Contrast this with an Israeli airport where you stay with your bags until your security check is complete, and airline and highly trained security personnel talk to you and watch you constantly. You’re not allowed to approach the ticket counter until you are cleared by the security system, while in the United States, security is an apparent afterthought.


 
You're describing behavioral profiling. Something the many security experts who laugh at current TSA efforts have always supported.

In the context of this discussion - what about political correctness has prevented "behavioral" profiling from happening in the US?


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## JTM (Dec 31, 2009)

Traveling Man said:


> Is profiling productive, let's see here shall we?
> 
> The safest airline in the world, it is widely agreed, is El Al, Israel’s national carrier. The safest airport is Ben Gurion International, in Tel Aviv. No El Al plane has been attacked by terrorists in more than three decades, and no flight leaving Ben Gurion has ever been hijacked. What are the Israelis doing that we aren’t?
> 
> ...


 this works for a country that is a constant state of near war, where everyone has spent time in the military.  

in the united states where people yell "come and take it" and sayings like "those who would trade liberty for security deserve neither" are prevalent... this doesn't exactly work.


imo, the government should have nothing to do with security at airports.  then, you can go to the airlines where they do a full body scan and racial profiling, and i probably will to, but at least it wouldn't be the government.

right now, the government has a problem: too little security OR too little privacy.  it's a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation. privatization solves all this.


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## drapetomaniac (Dec 31, 2009)

JTM said:


> in the united states where people yell "come and take it" and sayings like "those who would trade liberty for security deserve neither" are prevalent... this doesn't exactly work.



After all North Korea hasn't had a passenger plane get bombed that I know of.  



JTM said:


> imo, the government should have nothing to do with security at airports.  then, you can go to the airlines where they do a full body scan and racial profiling, and i probably will to, but at least it wouldn't be the government.



Canada has a fine security history too - and their airports are run by nonprofits.




JTM said:


> right now, the government has a problem: too little security OR too little privacy.  it's a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation. privatization solves all this.



The best security you will find in an airport will be in an authoritarian state.  The best domestic security will be in an authoritarian state.


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## JTM (Dec 31, 2009)

i agree.  i also wouldn't stand for it.


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## Traveling Man (Dec 31, 2009)

> this works for a country that is a constant state of near warâ€¦In the context of this discussion - what about political correctness has prevented "behavioral" profiling from happening in the US?



And we havenâ€™t been in a constant state of war since the USS Cole? Maybe thatâ€™s the problem; we are under siege and we roll over after seeing the alarm clock reads 9:11 and hit the snooze button again.

In the land of Alice in Wonderland Mad hatter logic it would make sense to jack with little old ladies and babies for bombs while avoiding the reality that a 6 year old can see for themselves. This twisted logic can only be brought to you byâ€¦ the government; you know the ones whom are charged in the constitution with the national defense. While the Washington ruling class elite fly around on our dime unfettered whilst we the sheeple get to be terrorized by TSA and the terrorist, are we having fun yet? Itâ€™s become quite evident that the terrorist are not afraid of the US or itsâ€™ security. And while weâ€™re at it letâ€™s expose all of our intelligence; there will be a major bombing attempt in Bali during the New Year celebrations and the Wahabi lobby has been told  that they were successful in killing 8 of our CIA agents. Please note the eight werenâ€™t contractors, civilians, etc. 

Will someone please tell me we are not living in Alice in Wonderland.


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## JTM (Dec 31, 2009)

okay, yea, we have permanent wars going on, but none are on our doorstep.  vaguely reminds me of 1984.  actually, not vaguely.  seriously reminds me of 1984.


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## drapetomaniac (Dec 31, 2009)

I always considered the level of awareness when a person talked about "after 911", etc.  We've been very insulated, because we've been at war with Osama and many others for decades.  There are others we're battling that Americans have no awareness of and only come up as a foreign policy line item on a budget somewhere.


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## Traveling Man (Dec 31, 2009)

JTM said:


> okay, yea, we have permanent wars going on, but none are on our doorstep.  vaguely reminds me of 1984.  actually, not vaguely.  seriously reminds me of 1984.


 
So I'm guessing here, 911 wasn't on our doorstep, and if this latest panti bomb was succesful that wouldn't be either? What a strange world we live in...


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## drapetomaniac (Dec 31, 2009)

Traveling Man said:


> So I'm guessing here, 911 wasn't on our doorstep, and if this latest panti bomb was succesful that wouldn't be either? What a strange world we live in...


 
9-11-2001

You're a civilian in a country at war.  Tell an Afghan or Iraqi civilian war is at your doorstep anywhere near the level it is on theirs (our war on theirs) and they'll either cry or laugh.


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## Traveling Man (Dec 31, 2009)

drapetomaniac said:


> 9-11-2001
> 
> You're a civilian in a country at war.  Tell an Afghan or Iraqi civilian war is at your doorstep anywhere near the level it is on theirs (our war on theirs) and they'll either cry or laugh.


 
Any time there is a target on your back you better be on the defensive: period. The old rules of war and the new PC rules don't apply today. Like it or not, you're it! And we better get used to it.


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## Hippie19950 (Jan 1, 2010)

If you look at me without the Santa hat, it might be easy to confuse me with one of those who are regarded to be of the "Terror nations" as we have come to be taught. The only thing that would save me, is my German heritage, and the fact that I burn, and don't tan... I have actually been confused by some who have no real idea of what is going on, as a "Muslim", because they group all together, and just figure if you have a beard, and possibly long hair, you just might be one... Now, as for those who are properly trained, it is not a problem (yet). I do fit a portion of the profile though. I usually pay cash, I don't need 5 suitcases just to spend the weekend someplace (usually 2-3 pair of jeans, 2-3 T-shirts and if needed, a couple of shirts with some buttons on them), which can easily be carried in a paper sack under my arm, like.... Ok, like a lunch. But, I am the farthest from someone meaning to do harm to anyone in this country, or any other country, unless you directly tread on me. Then it's Katy Bar the Door!!!!! I don't like the word profiling, because like Muslim, it is too broad, and usually used in the wrong way. As a Peace Officer, I can profile. It's legal. It's not like what is being talked about here, or in the news. If there is something that happens, and I have witnesses who give me a good description, I can check ANYONE who matches that description. It may only be white, hispanic, Asian, (East, Mid-East etc), or black. But, the people you detain and investigate, HAVE to match the PROFILE of the DESCRIPTION you were given, and not "maybe they fit". I myself do not intend to offend anyone, Brother or not. But, as many are expressing here, and elsewhere, WE are tired of being offended, and attacked. In the United States, We the People have NO RIGHTS, until we commit a crime. Those who are exercising their Rights, have either committed an offense, or are being investigated for the commission of the crime. We have reasonable expectations of these Rights, but don't expect them just whenever you think you want them. Just look around. I have a good friend who has a tag line I like, If you don't stand be hind our troops, feel free to stand in front of them. I want to know how many Muslims were present when the Revolutionary Was was fought, or how many came here with the Pilgrims to settle here, to get away from the King? But yet, we must allow them to share OUR Rights, and buckle to their being offended... I am one of MANY Proud Veterans here who served to make sure this Country remained Free, and to be a safe place for us all.

Disclaimer: The toes I have stepped on were not done intentionally, but they were there, in my way, and it was not within my ability to avoid pouncing as hard as I could before they were moved. My rant is over for now...


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## Traveling Man (Jan 1, 2010)

And here we have some more Alice in Wonderland Mad hatter logic…



> During flight, passengers will be asked to follow flight crew instructions, such as stowing personal items, turning off electronic equipment and remaining seated during certain portions of the flight.



And of course not following the flight deck personel instuctions is a Federal crime…

This would mean our “Flying Dutchman” friend would be a criminal while the “alleged” “Undie-Bomber” (not to be confused with the “Uni-Bomber“) will receive all the “rights we can bestow“.

Just to be clear:

We have to love the paranoid “Victims of mistaken Profiling” throwing themselves upon the altar of the innocence. (in the real world we call this “baiting” with a “straw man“) That notwithstanding we are discussing “character” and “behavior” profiling through “validated observations” and “actions“, i.e. sorting for ducks while picking out a few pigeons (only pigeons dressed as ducks, i.e. ducks seem to appear to have a walk unlike those of pigeons) to satisfy some group that tries to hamstring and use intimidation tactics (and terrorize) individuals that are trying to protect the flying masses (and everyone else) from the few. As hard as one likes, they still will not fit “The Profile”. I suppose one could if they really wanted to, but then they should be culled for a “melon examination“; grounds for profiling.

As Continentals’ motto: “Work hard, fly right (intimidated, scared and without dignity)”.

Is it just me or has anyone else ever noticed that when flying the first international flights out in the morning, when arriving early for your “strip search and loss of dignity” ritual that the TSA is not there as prescribed? Yet we have to be there two hours early, for what, because they can?

None of the above is intended to be offensive, please do not construe it as such.


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## drapetomaniac (Jan 2, 2010)

Traveling Man said:


> We have to love the paranoid “Victims of mistaken Profiling” throwing themselves upon the altar of the innocence. (in the real world we call this “baiting” with a “straw man“) That notwithstanding we are discussing “character” and “behavior” profiling through “validated observations” and “actions“, i.e. sorting for ducks while picking out a few pigeons (only pigeons dressed as ducks, i.e. ducks seem to appear to have a walk unlike those of pigeons) to satisfy some group that tries to hamstring and use intimidation tactics (and terrorize) individuals that are trying to protect the flying masses (and everyone else) from the few. As hard as one likes, they still will not fit “The Profile”. I suppose one could if they really wanted to, but then they should be culled for a “melon examination“; grounds for profiling.


 
After each of these attacks or attempted attacks there is open discussion about racial and religious profiling.  From talking heads to elected officials and certainly 

Maybe the confusion is the consistent complaint of Political Correctness and "not profiling."  While there have been several suggestions that we aren't talking about racial, ethnic or religious profiling - but *only* behavioral profiling, nobody has seemed to explain what is "politically incorrect" about profiling based on behavior and who is objecting to the idea of full behavioral profiling?

I've seen many call for it over the years.  

I'm glad you joined the thread talking about behavioral profiling, but I don't think that's the profiling first mentioned or joined in by others in this thread.  And again, maybe its the consistent complaints against "PC" joined in on the subject, which today indicates race, ethnicity and religion.


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## ljlinson1206 (Jan 2, 2010)

[9-11-2001

You're a civilian in a country at war.  Tell an Afghan or Iraqi civilian war is at your doorstep anywhere near the level it is on theirs (our war on theirs) and they'll either cry or laugh.[/QUOTE]

Brother Drape, If you absolutely do not think that this country is at war, then I implore you to come work a couple of shifts with me on patrol.  I can not dispute that we, in the states, are not being bombed on a regular basis. But i can say with no uncertainty that depending upon where you live within the U.S. you do have to be very careful so that you are not gunned down in the street, just as you would in a third world country.  I am not threatened on a daily basis with someone trying to kill me, however after 13 years of service I have been there on more than one occasion. And as mentioned before, whenever someone pulls a knife or gun on me I have be as delicate as possible with them in order to not infringe upon thier civil rights!!!!!  WHY?  Polital correctness!  Liberals! Democrats!  Take your pick.  

It is my opinion that if the war being fought in the middle east was to end and our boys brought home, the front line would be ON OUR DOORSTEP!  Our way of life is afforded us because of the blood of brave men and women who have paid the greatest price that could ever be paid.  For what?!  So that it can be destroyed from the inside out by a man that can't even produce a valid birth certificate!!!!!!!  

That's all have to say for now!!!!!!!!!!!!!  I may have more to say when I calm down.  Sorry for the rant Brothers.


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## drapetomaniac (Jan 2, 2010)

ljlinson1206 said:


> Brother Drape, If you absolutely do not think that this country is at war, then I implore you to come work a couple of shifts with me on patrol.  I can not dispute that we, in the states, are not being bombed on a regular basis.



Thank you - the immediate topic was whether there was "war on our doorstep."  I don't think we can compare Iraq and Afghanistan to life in the United States.



ljlinson1206 said:


> But i can say with no uncertainty that depending upon where you live within the U.S. you do have to be very careful so that you are not gunned down in the street, just as you would in a third world country.  I am not threatened on a daily basis with someone trying to kill me,



If you were on patrol in Iraq oer Afghanistan, your threats would rise dramatically.  I realize we commonly use war as an analogy for many things in our country, but do you really think you can sit down with a veteran from our recent wars and say you're going through the same thing?



ljlinson1206 said:


> however after 13 years of service I have been there on more than one occasion. And as mentioned before, whenever someone pulls a knife or gun on me I have be as delicate as possible with them in order to not infringe upon thier civil rights!!!!!  WHY?  Polital correctness!  Liberals! Democrats!  Take your pick.



Well, thank God!  I grew up between cops and criminals - for more than 13 years. One side targeting me for crime and one seeing themselves at war with me.  You can complain about "civil rights" laws, but because people do and because people make gross generalizations and want to act impulsively on them instead of with thought and training - we have the set of laws we do.

I used to laugh when I lived in Tucson and they talked about rising rates of crime, "gangs", etc. because the number of numbers in a year would sound like new years day in Philly.

That said, if I pull a knife on you, you can shoot me and have widespread support.  If I pull a stick on you, you could shoot me with support - or at most a reprimand.  That said, the Department of Justice is sometimes reviewing this which is why Austin came under review and finally got some reforms.

Thanks for the invitation to patrol, but I know enough dead people to appreciate the dangers you discuss.  And I don't think having my "civil rights" rescinded would have helped my mortality growing up or now.



ljlinson1206 said:


> It is my opinion that if the war being fought in the middle east was to end and our boys brought home, the front line would be ON OUR DOORSTEP!



I absolutely agree - except for "if it was to end" - it has to end. It has to end right and the best way is with friendly stable governments.
But, as you said - it's not on our doorstep, the topic of my prior post.



ljlinson1206 said:


> Our way of life is afforded us because of the blood of brave men and women who have paid the greatest price that could ever be paid.  For what?!



Describe that way of life?  Does it involve the much maligned "civil rights" ?



ljlinson1206 said:


> So that it can be destroyed from the inside out by a man that can't even produce a valid birth certificate!!!!!!!



Seriously? Forged newspaper clippings from decades ago, forcing support of a GOP Hawaiian governor on the legitimacy of the documentation and the Manchurian candidate - to support a secret Muslim (and radical Christian) who eventually will tie a nuke to him and walk into a mall?

I'm thinking Denzel shouldn't have been in the last Manchurian Candidate movie.


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## Hippie19950 (Jan 3, 2010)

There is a war on our doorstep, two-fold, but it is NOT the war in which most are referring to. This war is one that Brother LJ, myself, and many others have been engaged in for quite some time. Some will laugh, and say it really isn't a war, and continue to speak out against it, until it involves one of their loved ones, and then we are not doing enough. On top of that, we cannot directly use the U.S. Military to fight either of these. They can only assist us, and not in a direct way. This is part of the so called Rights of the criminal, and making sure our politics are correct. Other wise, heads roll, and this war is set back, and funding taken away. Now, you being in Austin, may not even know about it, or may not have been affected by it, but I know different. You having been in Tuscon, have been affected by it. I am from the Indianapolis area, via Az., and Austin. So, been there, fought the fights, and taken the hits when they came. I am of a strong German background. First thing folks say or think, is what occurred during WWII. My family is still paying for those PC incorrect actions, and will continue, even though WE did NOT have anything to do with them. As with insurance here, if you keep crashing your car, I end up paying for it... I really don't give a Rat's A** about being politically correct. It SUCKS big time!!! I have never been able to walk on any kind of egg without breaking it, and I refuse to spend all my life trying to walk on them, and not break them... It ain't gonna happen. Get over it!! If you don't like the treatment you, or others are getting here, feel free to go anyplace else in this World that seems to have a better handle on what YOU want. Many chose to run to Canada during the draft of the Viet Nam War. I had the choice to go as well. I stayed, was drafted (#33 IN LOTTERY), and served. Didn't like it, but I didn't run, I stood for what MY Country stood for. When I came home, and TRIED to go to college with my G.I. Bill of Rights, I was constantly attacked by those who said it was not right to do what I did. They were not there where I was, had no idea what any of us actually faced, and didn't want to take the time to find out. After the second physical altercation (not provoked by me), I was expelled from the university. Apparently I was not politically correct material for standing up, and trying to exercise my Rights to get a further education. The persons who started the problems were not given any punishment. As I said in another post, each Texas Peace Officer MUST spend 40 hours every two years on Continued Education. A BIG part of that, is Cultural Diversity. Learning how NOT to OFFEND other races, nationalities, sexes, religions, political affiliations, and the list goes on. And yet, there are those who swear we have a Police State! Get real, and most of all GET OVER IT!!!!! I love this Country, I am satisfied for the most part of what we are doing, and the way I am treated. When I disagree with what the government is doing, I contact my elected officials, and express my views and concerns. If they don't like it, they still heard from me. If they hear from enough of us, and it isn't changed, we look for someone who will. I am NOT impressed with what the current leader of the Country is doing, how he got there, or where we are headed with it. I voted, and hope ALL others here voicing their griefs have done so as well. I would sure hate to think someone who didn't have time to vote, can find time to bitch about this stuff. It is easy enough to find out if I voted, as it is Public Record in Franklin, Texas. If anyone needs bus fare, or gas money to find a better set of Rights, let me know  Oh, and be sure to see my Disclaimer..............


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## drapetomaniac (Jan 3, 2010)

Hippie19950 said:


> As I said in another post, each Texas Peace Officer MUST spend 40 hours every two years on Continued Education. A BIG part of that, is Cultural Diversity. Learning how NOT to OFFEND other races, nationalities, sexes, religions, political affiliations, and the list goes on. .



Other than what?  These groups you speak of are part of the police departments, or should be.

I'm glad to hear Police are required to learn how to communicate effectively with the full depth of the community.

Perhaps the absolute anger at learning to communicate effectively with the communities they must work with is why it is needed.  There is no question the history of police action in this country encourages the necessity, but the continued apathy or anger towards having to listen to or communicate with  "other sexes" and "other races" shows it even more.  

The most effective police departments (outside of authoritarian states) are those that engage with the community, regardless of them being an "other."  You can't work with a community if you're not educated about them.

Good police departments engage with communities, as do medical facilities and many other public facing jobs and departments (education, fire safety, energy).  Even smart nonprofits and businesses pushing their wares do this.  

They can assume or demand a community simply comply with their own perceptions, or they can have a dialogue and discussion.  This dialogue also provides a two way communication so the community can hear the concerns of the police as well.


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## HKTidwell (Jan 3, 2010)

Well I've said this a thousand times to friends, one American Soldier is worth at least Ten Thousand of anybody else.  We stopped WWII by the only means that would have stopped the Japanese.  Yes it was bloody and regretful but it was a culture that had to be broken.  Shermans March broke the Souths' heart and helped stop the war.  Kadalfe(Libya leader) kept doing stuff to the US, we dropped missiles in his palace, killed members of his family, and shut him up for nearly 20 years.   In every war that is successful you will find a person that says screw the political correctness and lets finish this in a manner that wins.  

We should be tolerant except of intolerance and when you encounter intolerance it should be burned to the ground.  I'm very adamant about slum not being rewarded but I'm first in line to help a person that needs help/wants help.  You can only help those who want help, otherwise it is a waste of time.  I think every person is a profiler, whether you admit it or not we do it.  While profiling can help, you must not be locked into a 100% state of mind,  what I mean by this is the old man that drives the beat up old truck, talks slow, wears old clothes that have seen better days could quite possibly be a Millionaire.  Sometimes what seems to meet the eye is not actually what it is.  Reminds me of the photo of the skull.







Just my two cents.


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