# Help with Identifying 1900s Uniform



## Marina-R (Apr 19, 2017)

Hello! I've been doing a lot of genealogy research lately, and I'm very curious about this illustration of my 2nd great grandfather.




 

 

His name was William H. Foelker, born 1868 in Philadelphia, and he was in Philadelphia his entire life. I haven't been able to find his grave though. He looks to be about 35 or 40 in this picture, so I estimate the creation being somewhere in the 1900s. The picture isn't dated, but it seems to have been done in pastels and the frame is the original.

I've been trying to identify the uniform myself, but I'm really not sure where to look. We don't know any specifics, and everyone my mom and I could ask about this is gone, so any help would be much appreciated. Thanks so much!

Edit 4/23: I took new photos with my webcam--these are smaller but much clearer.


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## Bro. Stewart P.M. (Apr 19, 2017)

Looks like a classic York Rite Commandry (Knights Templar) uniform to me.


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## Elexir (Apr 20, 2017)

Bro. Stewart P.M. said:


> Looks like a classic York Rite Commandry (Knights Templar) uniform to me.



But does the KT uniform really have a sash?


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## goomba (Apr 20, 2017)

https://www.pinterest.com/rupellow/masonic-knights-templar/

I think it is indeed an early KT uniform.  There are a handful on this link that look very similar.


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## Marina-R (Apr 20, 2017)

Thanks for all your responses! I'll look into lodges around Philly at the time and see what I can find.


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## Keith C (Apr 20, 2017)

Marina-R said:


> Thanks for all your responses! I'll look into lodges around Philly at the time and see what I can find.



Contact the Grand Lodge of Pennsylvania.  The library staff there is AMAZING!.  The following link will take you to the Library page of the Grand Lodge Website:   https://pamasonictemple.org/library/

In the lower left corner is a section on Genealogy, submit a request and they will, in due time, get back to you with his Masonic history in PA.

On another note, if you ever get to Philly, go take the tour of the Masonic Temple...It is awe inspiring!


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## Bro. Stewart P.M. (Apr 20, 2017)

Elexir said:


> But does the KT uniform really have a sash?



Yes. As I recall some of the early versions did include a sash of sorts. Of course by the looks of this photo, the triangular shaped black apron wasn't too very far removed.

The chapeau was a big clue for me too...



Marina-R said:


> Thanks for all your responses! I'll look into lodges around Philly at the time and see what I can find.



You are very welcome. Let us know what you end up with!


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## Marina-R (Apr 20, 2017)

Keith C said:


> Contact the Grand Lodge of Pennsylvania.  The library staff there is AMAZING!.  The following link will take you to the Library page of the Grand Lodge Website:   https://pamasonictemple.org/library/
> 
> In the lower left corner is a section on Genealogy, submit a request and they will, in due time, get back to you with his Masonic history in PA.
> 
> On another note, if you ever get to Philly, go take the tour of the Masonic Temple...It is awe inspiring!



That's super cool! I didn't know about this, thank you! You know, we really should go see it--I like any excuse to take a train.



Bro. Stewart P.M. said:


> Yes. As I recall some of the early versions did include a sash of sorts. Of course by the looks of this photo, the triangular shaped black apron wasn't too very far removed.
> 
> The chapeau was a big clue for me too...



When my mom told me about this picture, I was hoping it would be in acrylic or oil, because we could all see the details much easier. But from quick google searches, it seems that it is indeed an early KT uniform.


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## Warrior1256 (Apr 22, 2017)

Bro. Stewart P.M. said:


> Looks like a classic York Rite Commandry (Knights Templar) uniform to me.


Yep, sure is.


Elexir said:


> But does the KT uniform really have a sash?


It did in earlier days.


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## Marina-R (Aug 4, 2017)

Hey everybody! I'm back with some more interesting information!  : o )

Genealogy had to take a back seat for a while, but I got back into it this week and I'm doubly curious about what I've found.

I suppose I'll start with Will Foelker, who I first posted about. I found more of his vital information, and now know:
Full birthname: Wilhelm Heinrich Fölker
Date/place of birth: June 24, 1869; Philadelphia
Date/place of death: April 8, 1945; Upland, PA

I also went back and took a careful gander at his uniform--then drew what I could of the possible badges/pins he was wearing. I didn't get too far, but I think this page is much more useful than the original drawing (zooming in will make it clearest).


I figure the pin on the sash could be an antique version of this: 


Last time I forgot to mention something else: His one brother was named Benjamin Franklin Foelker. This quickly made me realize that this family must've been more into their masonry than I'd thought. So, as I went up the family tree, I found something very interesting--on Will's uncle's grave site.

To backtrack a little: I found a bunch of newspaper articles through Philadelphia Free Library that helped me identify and then confirm several of Will's paternal uncles. It was pretty easy, because George Foelker, Will's father, owned a popular "wooden willow ware" store for a few decades in Philly (George Foelker & Co).

What I found out: Will's entire family, including his mother's side, had actually started out in Allentown--not Philadelphia! The brother I'm going to talk about is one John Conrad Foelker (born Johann Konrad Völker).

He was a previously well-known veterinarian of the Allentown area. The whole family came here from Heidenheim, Wuerttemburg, Germany in 1849 for his education. Two of John's sons, Samuel and Jacob, became vets as well. I even have a picture of John--it's small but I'm happy to have it. It didn't take me long to find John's family cemetery plot... it's hard to miss. I was so happy to see that familiar symbol on the main stone of the grave site!




That was all fun to find, but it took me maybe another hour to find a whole bunch of stuff on John and George's parents, including their marriage record in Germany in 1825. Next stop: Researching masonry in 1700s & 1800s Germany...?

Anyhow, I hope this provides more ideas as to the nature of Will's membership. I'm doubly intrigued... and the tradition probably would have carried on if he & Lena hadn't had six daughters!


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## Bloke (Aug 4, 2017)

Marina-R said:


> Hey everybody! I'm back with some more interesting information!  : o )
> 
> Genealogy had to take a back seat for a while, but I got back into it this week and I'm doubly curious about what I've found.
> 
> ...



I love doing this sort of research 

Well done on your efforts and make sure you share them around with other family members.


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## Derek Harvey (Aug 4, 2017)

vintage knights templar uniform. 

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## Bill Lins (Aug 4, 2017)

Could possibly be Knights of Columbus also- very similar to KT.


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## Marina-R (Aug 5, 2017)

Thanks all for the additional replies--this research is really addictive. 

I actually remember staring at that exact uniform photo. To me it looks like it could be a later version of the same uniform. The hat throws me off, because I'm not well-versed in hats. 

Has Knights of Columbus always been strictly Catholic? This entire family had nothing but Lutheran records; Evangelical, Episcopal, etc. (In fact, my mom's side was so protestant that our only Irish ancestors were in Northern Ireland, the most protestant region of Ireland.) I'm completely open to the idea though!


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## Bloke (Aug 5, 2017)

Marina-R said:


> ..Has Knights of Columbus always been strictly Catholic? ...



Yes, exclusively Catholic.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knights_of_Columbus


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## Warrior1256 (Aug 5, 2017)

Derek Harvey: Another cool uniform!


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## Marina-R (Aug 6, 2017)

Bloke said:


> Yes, exclusively Catholic.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knights_of_Columbus



Ah okay--in that case, it's not likely. I can definitively say this family has all Lutheran records going back to the very early 1800s. But if I find someone with Catholic records, I'll keep it in mind! 

I forgot to say before: I didn't contact the Phila. Temple because they state on the main page of their site that they don't have access to York Rite records. I didn't want to bug them, so I contacted the PA Grand Commandery instead about two weeks ago. No response yet, but maybe they'll write back with something interesting.  If they don't or it's been a while, I'll ask the library for advice.


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## Bloke (Aug 6, 2017)

Marina-R said:


> Ah okay--in that case, it's not likely. I can definitively say this family has all Lutheran records going back to the very early 1800s. But if I find someone with Catholic records, I'll keep it in mind!
> 
> I forgot to say before: I didn't contact the Phila. Temple because they state on the main page of their site that they don't have access to York Rite records. I didn't want to bug them, so I contacted the PA Grand Commandery instead about two weeks ago. No response yet, but maybe they'll write back with something interesting.  If they don't or it's been a while, I'll ask the library for advice.



Keep at it. As you'll probably know, Freemasonry is a voluntary organization and it can take a while to get a response... the trick if finding the right experts... Like others here, it also  looks like an early KT uniform to me.


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## vetemike (Oct 18, 2017)

We still use the sash in the Order work.


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## vetemike (Oct 18, 2017)

I am currently the Grand Sword Bearer of the Grand Commandery, KT in Delaware.


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## vetemike (Oct 18, 2017)

I have some ideas that might help you in your search and would be glad to answer any questions I can.  Please feel free to call me directly.  (302) 249-7282


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## KimJ (Jan 21, 2018)

I found this post doing a google search for Royal Arch Masons and Knights Templar.
I am trying to date my grandfather's picture and find out what all the symbols mean on his sword.
If anyone can help I'd appreciate it, if I am in the wrong place I apologise.
2 symbols on a small part of his sword.


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## Matt L (Jan 21, 2018)

That is a Knight's Templar sword.  If it is your relatives, and he had it made, it could have his name engraved on the blade and his initials on the grip.  It should also have a makers mark and sometimes be dated that way.

The Crown within the cross represent the reward awaiting in Heaven that the Faithful will receive after the suffering and trials of this life on Earth; the cross secures and the crown assures. Some have interpreted it to stand for the meaning of the life, ministry, message, and glory of our Blessed Redeemer, our Savior, Jesus Christ.


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## KimJ (Jan 21, 2018)

Matt L said:


> That is a Knight's Templar sword.  If it is your relatives, and he had it made, it could have his name engraved on the blade and his initials on the grip.  It should also have a makers mark and sometimes be dated that way.


Yes his name is engraved on it.
And yes the makers on it.
So how do I date it?
And Thank you!


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## Matt L (Jan 21, 2018)

Henderson Ames Swords were made between 1893 and 1933.  Does the sword have any gold touches to it?  There are some sword forums that may be able to date it closer by the way the scene is etched  into the sword.  
H&A Swords were well made and are collectable.  It's a great piece of family history.


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## Matt L (Jan 21, 2018)

With Sir Knight Foelker being in the Allentown area, you may try contacting the local Commandery there.;
Allen-Beauceant Commandery No. 20, 1524 Linden St. Allentown.  
My Commandery has records dating back to 1825 and have helped folks in the past.


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## KimJ (Jan 22, 2018)

Matt L said:


> With Sir Knight Foelker being in the Allentown area, you may try contacting the local Commandery there.;
> Allen-Beauceant Commandery No. 20, 1524 Linden St. Allentown.
> My Commandery has records dating back to 1825 and have helped folks in the past.



I live in Jersey but he lived in Illinois, so I would need to contact a chapter there correct?
I' am doing a family tree and would really like to know the approximate date of the sword.
Besides the fact that this is very interesting.
Thank you.


Matt L said:


> Henderson Ames Swords were made between 1893 and 1933.  Does the sword have any gold touches to it?  There are some sword forums that may be able to date it closer by the way the scene is etched  into the sword.
> H&A Swords were well made and are collectable.  It's a great piece of family history.


Thank you.
No gold I can tell but dont know.


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## KimJ (Jan 22, 2018)

This is my grandfather with the sword.
He died young at 36. and the Masons were in charge of his funeral.
I have a paper that says Commander Geo. I. Bush notifies all members to attend the funeral.
That's about all the information I have.
So I'd really like to get some information and dates if I could.


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## CLewey44 (Jan 22, 2018)

I know this has been answered but this is looking pretty York Ritish. Specifically Knights Templar? I'm not a member but others obviously are.


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## KimJ (Jan 22, 2018)

CLewey44 said:


> I know this has been answered but this is looking pretty York Ritish. Specifically Knights Templar? I'm not a member but others obviously are.


 Is that something different?
I am not familiar with all of this.


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## CLewey44 (Jan 22, 2018)

Is the York Rite different from Masonry?


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## KimJ (Jan 22, 2018)

CLewey44 said:


> Is the York Rite different from Masonry?


Yes, all we had in notes was that he was a Royal Arch mason.
But all family members are gone.
So this is all we have.


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## CLewey44 (Jan 22, 2018)

So, it sounds like he was a Mason for sure and a member of an appendant body called the York Rite. It is made up of three independent bodies within itself. The Royal Arch (Chapter), Cryptic Council and the Knights Templar (Commandery). Based on his pics, it looks like he was a all three most likely. His outfit there is most likely Knights Templar. If I'm not mistaken, in order to be in the KT, you have to be a member of the other two bodies (Royal Arch and Cryptic Council)


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## KimJ (Jan 22, 2018)

CLewey44 said:


> So, it sounds like he was a Mason for sure and a member of an appendant body called the York Rite. It is made up of three independent bodies within itself. The Royal Arch (Chapter), Cryptic Council and the Knights Templar (Commandery). Based on his pics, it looks like he was a all three most likely. His outfit there is most likely Knights Templar. If I'm not mistaken, in order to be in the KT, you have to be a member of the other two bodies (Royal Arch and Cryptic Council)


Thank You!
That will give me a lot to look up and search.
Makes me sad that all of this is lost and forgotten.


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## Marina-R (Jan 22, 2018)

vetemike said:


> I have some ideas that might help you in your search and would be glad to answer any questions I can.  Please feel free to call me directly.  (302) 249-7282
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using My Freemasonry


Hey, sorry y'all, I didn't get notifications for the latest posts on this thread. Thanks so much for this offer and I'll keep it in mind once my research picks up again.



Matt L said:


> With Sir Knight Foelker being in the Allentown area, you may try contacting the local Commandery there.;
> Allen-Beauceant Commandery No. 20, 1524 Linden St. Allentown.
> My Commandery has records dating back to 1825 and have helped folks in the past.


I had no idea about that! Thank you! That would be so helpful in discovering how far back in the family this goes (at least for America), because the Foelkers came here in 1849. Awesomesauce!



KimJ said:


> This is my grandfather with the sword.
> He died young at 36. and the Masons were in charge of his funeral.
> I have a paper that says Commander Geo. I. Bush notifies all members to attend the funeral.
> That's about all the information I have.
> ...


Thanks for sharing all your pictures! It's been hard to find well-matching York Rite/Knights Templar pictures for the era I'm looking for, and it's so cool to see yours. It looks like Will Foelker and your grandfather were the same-ish generation, which means I get to see what his sword/other details may have looked like. I may have taken a long break, but this still super fascinates me and I always love to find out more. And if you got more photos, feel free to post em just 'cause.


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## KimJ (Jan 22, 2018)

Marina-R said:


> Hey, sorry y'all, I didn't get notifications for the latest posts on this thread. Thanks so much for this offer and I'll keep it in mind once my research picks up again.
> 
> 
> I had no idea about that! Thank you! That would be so helpful in discovering how far back in the family this goes (at least for America), because the Foelkers came here in 1849. Awesomesauce!
> ...



This is all I have sadly.
 All the details on these swords is amazing.
I'm still trying to find more information.


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## Bloke (Jan 22, 2018)

KimJ said:


> Thank You!
> That will give me a lot to look up and search.
> Makes me sad that all of this is lost and forgotten.


The specific details may be obscured by time, but it's not forgotten - he was part of organisations that still meet today and that young guys under 30 still join...

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## Bloke (Jan 22, 2018)

Have you thought about walking into antique stores and asking their opinion ? A old weapons dealer might glance at it and be able to tell you a lot about the sword..

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## KimJ (Jan 22, 2018)

Bloke said:


> Have you thought about walking into antique stores and asking their opinion ? A old weapons dealer might glance at it and be able to tell you a lot about the sword..
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920I using My Freemasonry mobile app


No, Never thought about that.
Mostly I wanted to know what the sword represented, I think that's been answered.
And I wanted to know what the men on horseback and the men on the other side running at them represented.
Just all the little details of what each image meant.
To me, this is the most awesome thing in my family.


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## dfreybur (Jan 23, 2018)

CLewey44 said:


> Is the York Rite different from Masonry?



The heart of Masonry is the first three degrees.  There's enough material there to study for more than one lifetime.

All other orders are optional and additional.  The York Rite is one of those optional and additional bodies.  As such all York Rite members are Masons but not all Masons are York Rite members.  The Scottish Rite and Shrine are other well known optional and additional Masonic organizations.

The York Rite teaches chivalry.  The symbols on that exquisite sword are symbols of chivalry across the centuries.


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## CLewey44 (Jan 23, 2018)

dfreybur said:


> The heart of Masonry is the first three degrees.  There's enough material there to study for more than one lifetime.
> 
> All other orders are optional and additional.  The York Rite is one of those optional and additional bodies.  As such all York Rite members are Masons but not all Masons are York Rite members.  The Scottish Rite and Shrine are other well known optional and additional Masonic organizations.
> 
> The York Rite teaches chivalry.  The symbols on that exquisite sword are symbols of chivalry across the centuries.


Lol, yeah I knew that, I was just asking for clarification of their question.


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## Warrior1256 (Jan 23, 2018)

dfreybur said:


> The heart of Masonry is the first three degrees.


Totally agree. The Blue Lodge always comes first.


dfreybur said:


> The York Rite teaches chivalry.


Very true. I totally enjoy the York Rite!


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## KimJ (Jan 23, 2018)

dfreybur said:


> The heart of Masonry is the first three degrees.  There's enough material there to study for more than one lifetime.
> 
> All other orders are optional and additional.  The York Rite is one of those optional and additional bodies.  As such all York Rite members are Masons but not all Masons are York Rite members.  The Scottish Rite and Shrine are other well known optional and additional Masonic organizations.
> 
> The York Rite teaches chivalry.  The symbols on that exquisite sword are symbols of chivalry across the centuries.


Thank you.
Do you know what makes very sad and somewhat angry?
This is my grandfathers sword. My sister has it hanging on her wall.
She had no idea who this man was, just that he was a relative.
I have been doing my family tree and it took me a couple years to get her to give me pictures of it.
She has no desire past knowing who he is.
No interest in the story or history behind any of it.
Sadder still, it will go to her son who cares even less.
He wants it just because "It's cool"


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## CLewey44 (Jan 23, 2018)

Your grandfather is in a place now where none of this stuff matters to him. He's been divested of all things and is at total peace I'm sure. I know it's memorable for the family though. Wish you the best, @KimJ


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## KimJ (Jan 23, 2018)

CLewey44 said:


> Your grandfather is in a place now where none of this stuff matters to him. He's been divested of all things and is at total peace I'm sure. I know it's memorable for the family though. Wish you the best, @KimJ


You're right.
And thank you


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## Bloke (Jan 23, 2018)

KimJ said:


> Thank you.
> Do you know what makes very sad and somewhat angry?
> This is my grandfathers sword. My sister has it hanging on her wall.
> She had no idea who this man was, just that he was a relative.
> ...



Same thing happened to our family bible from the 1850's - it went to one of the few non-church attending members of the family without much sense of history, the only value in it for them will be its old and belonged to my GGGrand father - hopefully that will keep it preserved and because it will be worth a few bucks.. but, it's only a thing, and like us, will only exist for a moment.... but I'd like if the moment was in my care !


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## KimJ (Jan 23, 2018)

Bloke said:


> Same thing happened to our family bible from the 1850's - it went to one of the few non-church attending members of the family without much sense of history, the only value in it for them will be its old and belonged to my GGGrand father - hopefully that will keep it preserved and because it will be worth a few bucks.. but, it's only a thing, and like us, will only exist for a moment.... but I'd like if the moment was in my care !


Sad.
To me these things have no monetary value, they are to be treasured, protected, passed on to a caretaker.
They are just things, but they are things that meant something to someone, so they should mean something to us.
Life will go on after us, but how much richer the world will be with our treasured memories!


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