# If many or most young people demit, is it worth joining?



## John Doe123 (Mar 10, 2015)

Hello Masons.  I am not a Mason, but I was going to seek admission today.  That is, until I learned that the average age of masons near me was around 60.  This seems very high.  Too high to be possible.  I don't know if this number is accurate, but if it is, it implies that new people are demitting or are not joining.  In other words, this implies that there isn't value in staying a member.  So my question is, should I be discouraged?  Is this a legitimate reason to seek fellowship elsewhere?  I don't want to step aboard a sinking ship.  I only want to be on winning teams.

Any thoughts would be most appreciated.


----------



## Morris (Mar 10, 2015)

If you are worried about the ship sinking then don't get onboard. If you can put your trust in the Captain then do it.


----------



## John Doe123 (Mar 10, 2015)

Morris said:


> If you are worried about the ship sinking then don't get onboard. If you can put your trust in the Captain then do it.


Thank you Morris for your reply.  Well, both of these mutually exclusive questions are 100% true for me.  

To break the tiebreaker I am here to learn.  On the downside, the time investment and drawbacks in being a member are considerable.  For one thing, it is very hard to know who I know is a Mason and two people must co-sign the petition. Another known downside is being hated by many conspiracy theorists.  All these downsides make me question if it is worthwhile.


----------



## n8blanchard (Mar 10, 2015)

While older age averages may be a discouragement to some I would encourage a new initiate to remember, you will only get out of Freemasonry what you put into it.
If you view it as a sinking ship, then you may want to reconsider your intent to join. 
I would encourage you to think of the older Brethren as a source of wisdom and knowledge that you will never find anywhere else as opposed to "a loosing team". 
If you look at it this way your experience will be much more rewarding. 
Brotherly love and friendship has no age boundaries.


----------



## David N. (Mar 10, 2015)

If I had to guess, I'd say that the _average_ age around here is pretty high when it comes to membership.  And that's membership on paper.  Men who have been paying their dues for 40 years but I wouldn't know them on sight (and I'm pretty active.)  But alot of younger motivated guys are taking leadership roles in my area.

_I only want to be on winning teams_

Can you...sort of clarify what you mean by this?  Serious question.  I didn't become a Freemason to be part of a winning team as far as numbers/demographics go.  I actually can't put that into any sort of reasonable perspective.


----------



## John Doe123 (Mar 10, 2015)

n8blanchard said:


> I would encourage you to think of the older Brethren as a source of wisdom and knowledge that you will never find anywhere else as opposed to "a loosing team".
> If you look at it this way your experience will be much more rewarding.
> Brotherly love and friendship has no age boundaries.



Thanks you n8blanchard for your advice.  I fully agree.  Indeed, I respect the elderly more than most anyone.  The only use of age in the equation to me is that it implies there is not enough value to new members for them to stay or join.


----------



## JJones (Mar 10, 2015)

If there wasn't enough value in the fraternity then we wouldn't find 60+ year old members who have been in the fraternity longer than I've been alive across the board.

Yes, there are some problems that need addressed and hurdles that we need to overcome, both at the GL and local levels, but as a mason who's considered young by most standards I can vouch that the value is there.

That being said, there are a lot of men my age who I've seen raised only to be discouraged or frustrated by older members.  Freemasonry is a labor of love and if you tend to walk away from things when they become problematic then you may want to look elsewhere.  Not trying to imply anything here, it's just something I've observed numerous times.


----------



## John Doe123 (Mar 10, 2015)

David N. said:


> *I only want to be on winning teams*
> 
> Can you...sort of clarify what you mean by this?



Sure, of course. What I am saying is that if I have an option to join a team, I would avoid a team that has a bad record.  If I am picking a stock, I would first filter by the sector, to make sure that is doing well.  If it were the 1990s, I would avoid investing in the #1 typewriter company.  In the past decade some publishing houses have declared bankruptcy.  I would avoid taking a job with an old school publishing house.  If I were looking for a job, I would avoid taking an offer of a company that is in debt and low on cash and with a declining stock.  The old ages imply something is very wrong with this organization.  If the entire outfit might be defunct soon and it isn't of benefit to others who've become Masons, I don't want to make a lifetime commitment.

There are certainly wealthy philanthropists who have extra time and money to help out people in need.  If Masons fit into that category, I would probably only do them a disservice by joining, since my own resources are limited.


----------



## n8blanchard (Mar 10, 2015)

While I understand the desire to question the of "Value" of the craft I will retort back to my original comment.
"Value" is personal and subjective, and depends entirely on what you "think" it is going to do for you.
Again the value you get will be proportionate to the value you give.

I sit in Lodge with many members who have been active for 50 years (Not age - Active). The other night I visited a lodge that celebrated three Masonic Birthdays of 47, 49 & 50 years respectively. 

The true value lies in our beautiful institution, that has for almost 300 years, stood the test of time and continues to make good men better.


----------



## n8blanchard (Mar 10, 2015)

P.S. As you can see by several of the posters in this thread we are not all old. 
Additionally I would suggest that there is an upswing in younger gentlemen, specifically in my area, who are joining.


----------



## Companion Joe (Mar 10, 2015)

I will go ahead and say that from the sounds of your posts, you might want to go ahead and look somewhere else if you are trying to find a fraternal organization. Freemasonry isn't about winning teams or whatever that is about. Age is a number. Those men are fountains of experience. The type of young men that don't recognize  that are not the type of young men I particularly care to associate with.

Don't concern yourself with the longevity of Freemasonry. The fraternity as we know it has been alive and well for 298 years. It will continue to be alive and well long after others have gone the way of the dodo. There are ebbs and flows in everything, but Freemasonry has withstood the tides of time.

As for worrying about conspiracy theorists, well, lions don't concern themselves with the opinions of sheep.


----------



## Ripcord22A (Mar 11, 2015)

Campanion Joe i was waiting for.someone to say it.  I would drop a black.cube if i was voting on his.petition


----------



## rpbrown (Mar 11, 2015)

I look to our older members for wisdom and teaching. We have one of our lodges founding members still active (66 years and counting). Yes, we have younger members, some that are only 18. But they are taking it for what it is, a learning experience. Only a few younger people from our lodge have dropped but I feel that they were looking for Masonry to provide them something that it didn't, although I cant imagine what it was.
If you want a brotherhood with a long, steep tradition, and you want to learn those traditions, help others and have a fellowship, then Masonry is the right place.


----------



## JJones (Mar 11, 2015)

> As for worrying about conspiracy theorists, well, lions don't concern themselves with the opinions of sheep.



Especially crazy sheep!


----------



## amaya14 (Mar 11, 2015)

John Doe,

I will echo all what it have said and I will only add that freemasonry is what form this country with our founding fathers who were Freemasons.


----------



## John Doe123 (Mar 11, 2015)

Again guys I really respect older people and that isn't an issue for me.  See my prior comment to that effect.

"It seems to me that the real issue is what you are joining to find."

Thus far I haven't indicated what I'm looking for.  My purpose in posting is to resolve the paradox.  I see this,



Companion Joe said:


> ...lions don't concern themselves with the opinions of sheep.



which is a statement implying Masons are a strong fraternity.  And yet there seems to be a problem in keeping young members, at least in my state.  I know that some lodges are closing doors.  It is a concern.   The collective judgment of young people is nearly about all I have to go on, for they have much more knowledge about what benefits of being a Mason are than can I until or unless I successfully join.

So let me answer your question JamestheJust [about what my goals are] so that I can get better advice, although my original question still stands and is really separate, in my opinion.  What I would value in life now is advice from experienced *and successful* people about how I can fail less often in my business and personal life and how I can succeed more often.  I'm not saying I'm doing that poorly now.  Rather, that I have a feeling I am not hitting on all cylinders, so to speak.  If I had someone to tell me what not to do I am sure it would be of use and value.  Does Masonry still offer that (as much as it did in the 1950s when membership peaked), or is that a reason younger membership is apparently an issue in some lodges?  If on the other hand I am only going to be learning about viet nam, perhaps it is best to not join.


----------



## n8blanchard (Mar 11, 2015)

Good morning again John Doe,

Try to keep in mind, in my humble opinion,  the true strength and value in Masonry is not in our numbers. I will leave that at that.

Addressing your second and more direct question;
While I can assure you, you will find friends and mentors within your journey that I am sure can offer you any valuable life lesson you seek, I will suggest that if that is your primary reason for joining you should look elsewhere. 
IMHO - It is not a business and networking platform meant to give you incredible connections and business acumen. Yes, that MAY happen outside of Lodge, but If that is your only objective try a business seminar or life coach.

Regards,
NTB


----------



## crono782 (Mar 11, 2015)

Part of the reason for the large skew in age of membership is due to the affectionately termed "GAoF" or the Golden Age of Fraternalism. This was a post WWII and beyond period of massive membership rushes in most fraternal organizations, Freemasonry being among them. The remnants of which we now see as a hyper-inflated membership age range. What you are seeing now is things equalizing. Yes, there are many members who are long in the tooth, but that does not mean that younger men are not joining. Yes, some Lodges are closing their doors, but that does not mean others are not growing.

I get it that you do not what to join an organization, put lots of time into it, only to see it go defunct. Like others have said, Freemasonry, has stood the test of time through drastic swings in membership, when it was outright outlawed in areas, had active political bodies rally against it, etc.

There is a wealth of knowledge to be passed on from the older generation which, in turn, you can pass on yourself.


----------



## dfreybur (Mar 11, 2015)

The dropout rate isn't any different from what it has always been.  About half of all men initiated to Entered Apprentice are still members when they die.

The average age has a pair of causes.  First as mentioned above was an out of pattern large influx of members during the WWI and WWII generations.  That introduced a bump with similar effects in Masonry that the Baby Boom generation has in general American society.  Second was the Me Generation of late Boomers generally didn't join any organizations so the positive demographic bump was followed by a negative demographic bump.  We got so many Granddads but so few Dads.  Or Great-granddads and Granddads depending on your age.

Now the rate of petitioners is back to what it was before a century ago.  But the minimum age is 18 these days and there is only one person alive on Earth who's 118 years old and she's not a brother.  Our records show the trend quite clearly but it has taken longer than living memory to happen.

The new generation is petitioning in floods.  Life balance seems to be a theme among a generation who saw their parents be workaholics.  We are one of the primary places that teach life balance.

You appear to want something trendy.  Right now we're watching the guys who joined us as part of a trend die of old age.  Trendy isn't something we'd learned to find appealing.


----------



## pointwithinacircle2 (Mar 11, 2015)

John Doe123 said:


> What I would value in life now is advice from experienced *and successful* people about how I can fail less often in my business and personal life and how I can succeed more often.  I'm not saying I'm doing that poorly now.  Rather, that I have a feeling I am not hitting on all cylinders, so to speak.  If I had someone to tell me what not to do I am sure it would be of use and value.


John, It depends on how you define success.  If you mean money then you are in the wrong place.  If you see success as having an inner sense of Honor, Happiness, and Integrity then you are asking the right question.  But I caution you that just as no man is forced to become a Mason, no Mason is forced to learn these lessons.  The lessons are offered to Masons in the form of symbols and allegory.  It is up to the individual to study and decipher their meaning.  It is not an easy task.  Yes, having older, wiser men to guide you is a plus.  But remember this: _Some things cannot be taught using words, they must be experienced to be understood._  What Masonry offers is the experience of Manhood, of Character Building, of Individual Self Improvement.  The work to make these things your own is up to you.  When I was a new Mason I expected to be given these things, and I was disappointed.  I considered quitting.  What I discovered was that my disappoint was of my own making.  That was disappointment was due to what Masons call my own "vices and superfluities"  A good definition of this is:

*Vices and Superfluities*
The word "vice" comes from Latin where it means "a flaw or weakness."  A stone with a flaw is not suited to the builder's use.  Its flaw will weaken the whole building.  A man with a flaw is – well, all of us.  Don't kid yourself.  We are all imperfect, even if we rise to the level of "good enough to pass."  Vice is about not living up to the ideals we know are there, the ideals we strive for.  It's about failing to care about other people and the hurtful consequences of our actions.  Living in the moment is a good thing, but not if you lack compassion for others, not if you are only thinking about your own pleasure, wealth, or power.

One of the first things a Mason is taught is that he should begin ridding himself of these.  For me it didn't happen easily or quickly, but the _experience_ and the _understanding_ that I acquired as a result have made me the man I am today.

As for the age of the members; I find that in my Lodge the younger people may be outnumbered but they are the ones who are taking the leadership roles.


----------



## David N. (Mar 11, 2015)

John Doe123 said:


> ,
> If on the other hand I am only going to be learning about viet nam, perhaps it is best to not join.



This sorta jumped out at me.  A Past Master of my Lodge is a Vietnam Vet, and he has taught me much about life, about being a good man.  Vietnam doesn't really come up.  And it really does sound like you are looking to join for the wrong reasons.
I have become a better businessman having become a Mason, but...I think you're looking at it the wrong way.  Business isn't really discussed.  I've improved in most areas of my life.  It's what happens when you take it seriously.
You are free to join a more successful organization.  No one is going to sell you on being a Freemason.
And, hate to say it; but going solely by what you've posted here, I don't think I'd want you in my Lodge.


----------



## Companion Joe (Mar 11, 2015)

I wrote these words somewhere else, but I will share them here now because they are germane.

_The types of young men who join and leave or simply never join because they are looking for some material gain or prize are not the sort that make good Masons. You don't "win" anything by joining Freemasonry; it isn't a competition. What you do is gain perspective and the association of good people.
_
As for younger people joining _... Millennials are a "me, me, me" group who, when they consider joining something, ask "what can I get out of this?" With Freemasonry - or any number of other such worthwhile organizations - you should ask "what can I contribute?" I think many might join Freemasonry because they have watched too many TV shows and believe they will get some kind of secret knowledge or preferment by becoming a Mason. When they realize the true gain from Freemasonry is knowledge about oneself and how to live your life as a good person and good citizen, they become disenfranchised. Despite what some nuts might think, special benefits for its members is not the purpose of Freemasonry. If you want to make business connections, join Rotary or Kiwanis. If you want special treatment just because you are a member, join a college Greek fraternity._


----------



## chrmc (Mar 11, 2015)

John Doe123 said:


> Is this a legitimate reason to seek fellowship elsewhere? I don't want to step aboard a sinking ship. I only want to be on winning teams.



I don't think you should seek membership. If what you are looking for is fellowship as the first and primary point and you're very concerned about being associated with something that is trendy, masonry is definitely not for you. There'll be much better organizations to socialize or further your career for that matter. 

If you however want a fraternal organization that will make you a better man, then Masonry is a good choice. However from your post I don't think you're ready for what masonry has to offer presently and do not believe you'd enjoy it.


----------



## MarkR (Mar 12, 2015)

Hmm.  I'm a Viet Nam vet, and I don't think I've ever talked about it in lodge.  If I have, it's because I was asked.

We have about 140 due-paying members of the lodge.  If you calculated the average age, it's probably fairly high.  But a lot of them are men who haven't been to lodge in decades, some no longer even live in the area (retired to warmer climates) but maintain their membership in their "mother lodge."  Of those who regularly attend lodge, only a few of us are over 60 years old.  The officer line is all men in their 20's, 30's, and 40's.

So, looking at the average age of the lodge doesn't give an accurate picture of what goes on in lodge.


----------



## pointwithinacircle2 (Mar 12, 2015)

Companion Joe said:


> As for younger people joining _... Millennials are a "me, me, me" group who, when they consider joining something, ask "what can I get out of this?"_


OK, being young is generally a _"me, me, me"_ time of life.  However demographic research suggests that the millennial generation is more focused on values, family, and personal relationships than any generation since the 50's.  For them life is about caring and having genuine, meaningful interactions with others.  Advertisers, who have spent hundreds of millions of dollars studying millennial men, are creating ads that talk about respect, honor, and pride because their research indicates that these are the core values that appeal to them. 

Baby Boomers grew up in the Hippie Generation that didn't care about Masonic values.  The Gen X'ers were a generation dominated by despair.  The Millennial Generation is the generation of Hope.  These are young men who who actually believe they can make the world a better place.  We have a responsibility to show them that Masonry can teach them the skills they need to accomplish that goal.  It is OUR responsibility, not theirs.  And if our ACTIONS do not demonstrate that Masonry is a valuable resource for improving the world, well, that is OUR failure as well.


----------



## Brother_Steve (Mar 12, 2015)

We just initiated 4 18 year olds, a 30 something and an early 40 something with dispensation.

We are on track to make 10 master masons before the summer break and we still have enough in waiting to do another three degrees after the break if we can squeeze them out. The men petitioning the lodge are on average 20 ~ 40 years old.

Here is the kicker. You will eventually be that 60 year old that you are afraid of right now. Masonry will also teach you that this will come no matter what you do in life.


----------



## cemab4y (Mar 12, 2015)

You may enjoy this article:

http://freemasoninformation.com/2009/06/there’s-a-hole-in-our-bucket/

(I used to work for the US Census Bureau, in statistical data collection and analysis).

Freemasonry experienced a huge "bump" in membership in the years following WW2, as has been discussed here.

In the 1950-1960-1970 decades, men found other leisure activities. Not only Masonry,  but other clubs and fraternal organizations are experiencing a "graying" of their membership.

Of course, if your opinion of Freemasonry is favorable, then by all means, ask for a petition. If, after joining, you determine that it is not right for you, you are then free to demit (resign), and leave the organization.

If associating with men who are older than you are, presents a problem, then Freemasonry may prove a disappointment to you. Myself, I have met many fine men in this Craft, and I have always enjoyed the fraternity.


----------



## dfreybur (Mar 12, 2015)

Thanks for the reference to the article abut the last century!

Grand lodge Freemasonry will have been been around for 3 centuries in 2017.  That means there are 2 more centuries to take into account.

Before I petitioned I read a book that gave tabular data about membership in the Grand Lodge of New Hampshire for two and a half centuries.  In addition to the up and down trend by generation in the 20th century it showed a century long up and down trend.  There was a bottom in the 1840s anti-Masonic movement and a peak after the Civil War as well as the up and down swing of the 20th century.

When I looked at that data I realized that a century long swing in membership is twice the membership lifetime of men.  I petitioned in 1993 and I estimated that 50 year members then had seen membership declining the entire time.  First degree rates then total membership.  But they are mortal men.  The men who were old 50 years ago had seen the opposite and so on back to the beginning.

I predicted that I was taking my degrees near the bottom and that I would likely see rising degree rates and then eventually rising membership my entire Masonic life.  Now 20 years in I have indeed seen rising degree rates the entire time.  I've seen lodges fail for being unable to handle the large influx of petitioners.  I've seen lodges go through drama for trying to absorb the large influx of petitioners.  I've seen jurisdictions bottom out in total membership and start growing again.

I may only see one 50 year phase of a trend that lasts 100 years, but I'm a bookworm and amateur history buff.  Just because I didn't see it myself, I see it in books.

Eventually I'll be one of the oldest members because I took my degrees near the bottom of the trend.  Then the trend will reverse again.  Just like it has in the previous centuries.

Ride that wave!


----------



## Companion Joe (Mar 12, 2015)

pointwithinacircle2 said:


> OK, being young is generally a _"me, me, me"_ time of life.  However demographic research suggests that the millennial generation is more focused on values, family, and personal relationships than any generation since the 50's.  For them life is about caring and having genuine, meaningful interactions with others.  Advertisers, who have spent hundreds of millions of dollars studying millennial men, are creating ads that talk about respect, honor, and pride because their research indicates that these are the care values that appeal to them.
> 
> Baby Boomers grew up in the Hippie Generation that didn't care about Masonic values.  The Gen X'ers were a generation dominated by despair.  The Millennial Generation is the generation of Hope.  These are young men who who actually believe they can make the world a better place.  We have a responsibility to show them that Masonry can teach them the skills they need to accomplish that goal.  It is OUR responsibility, not theirs.  And if our ACTIONS do not demonstrate that Masonry is a valuable resource for improving the world, well, that is OUR failure as well.



I certainly hope you are correct.


----------



## Companion Joe (Mar 12, 2015)

dfreybur said:


> Thanks for the reference to the article abut the last century!
> 
> Grand lodge Freemasonry will have been been around for 3 centuries in 2017.  That means there are 2 more centuries to take into account.
> 
> ...



We have raised 12 in the last year. Only two were over age 45. The youngest was four months removed from his 18th birthday and is most likely the youngest we will ever raise. He turned 18 in mid May, submitted his petition by the June stated meeting and got his degrees in July, August, and September.


----------



## John Doe123 (Mar 12, 2015)

dfreybur said:


> Then the trend will reverse again.  Just like it has in the previous centuries.
> 
> Ride that wave!



This is really a better way of looking at it.  When I was giving the declining stock analogy, I knew I wasn't being totally complete.  I was being short.  Really, you want to buy at the bottom and ride it to a peak, if you are trading.  Ideally.  To do that, you need to know why a stock is going down.  You also need to compare it to other stocks/companies that went bankrupt to know why it is different from thos.  I know the analogy is rotten, since this is totally different, but the common similarity is that if there is a decline and you aren't allowed to or can't know why, it is some sort of a caution signal.  I've gotten some reasons here in the thread having to do with the baby boomers, but it isn't really explaining it, since the effect in lodges is magnified by some mysterious reason.  I know why there was a decline in the 1830s.  I know why there is a mini boom near 2010 (guess: some dan brown movies).  I will need to buy a $25 book (author commented in above url) to learn more, I think.  My guess is that something promoted masonry in the 1950s. Yes, it might have been talk inside of ?regiments? in WWII.

I think with the rise of the internet, there is a lot of blame placed upon masons.  Regardless of how false it is, this is a deterrent since it means there are some people who will not like it that I know.  Sort of like wearing a republican sticker on my shirt (if that is what I am).  I couldn't afford to offend democrats.  That is my best theory for the decline thus far.  And my fear is that there is little masons can do to reverse this. 

One bad sign is in response to my question someone mentioned the long history.  I know there is a long history.  That is the issue.  You had great people.  Now you may have less great people.  Telling me you had great people 300 years ago is like telling me you have mediocre people now.  The lists of living and famous masons seems to be getting shorter.

I noticed that some lodges have a broken website, or no website.  It suggests to me that they either don't want new members or they are incompetent. If so, I have to respect that by not petitioning.

Perhaps that want me to think they are incompetent?  Seems unlikely.

Another possibility would be that lodges want to be secret, but that is contradicted by all authoritative sources saying clearly that masonry is not a secret fraternity but a fraternity with secrets. 

There was a comment that younger people do all the work.  This is what I'd expect.  Like any family.  You pay your dues and prove yourself so that you can relax a bit when older.  As it should be.  I respect that.


----------



## cemab4y (Mar 13, 2015)

QUOTE:

I noticed that some lodges have a broken website, or no website.  It suggests to me that they either don't want new members or they are incompetent. If so, I have to respect that by not petitioning.

Perhaps that want me to think they are incompetent?  Seems unlikely.

Another possibility would be that lodges want to be secret, but that is contradicted by all authoritative sources saying clearly that masonry is not a secret fraternity but a fraternity with secrets.

There was a comment that younger people do all the work.  This is what I'd expect.  Like any family.  You pay your dues and prove yourself so that you can relax a bit when older.  As it should be.  I respect that. end QUOTE

Your observation about the quality/quantity of masonic websites, is exactly on point. Not all lodges (and Grand Lodges) have embraced the 'net with equal enthusiasm.

Lodge websites run the whole spectrum. Some are terrific, some are mediocre, some are awful, and many lodges have no internet presence at all! I visit a lot of websites, and I always cringe when I see a lodge advertising a fish-fry that occurred three years ago!

I encounter your experience often. A young man sees a documentary about Masonry on "Discovery" channel. Then he googles Freemasonry in his home town. There is no webpage, and he assumes that there is no lodge in his town, or that the lodge is not interested in new members.

(I am sending you a URL for a discussion, that I would like you to see. Some Masons actually are opposed to their lodge having any internet presence)

Your contention that Masonry is not secret, is quite correct. Masons wear rings, belt buckles, ballcaps, etc. Many states have an official Masonic license plate issued by their Dept of Motor Vehicles. Masonic buildings are clearly marked and visible. There are hundreds of books and internet sites, promoting the Craft. There are secrets, but very very few. I like to compare Masonry to a football team. Practice sessions are held in private, often under tight security. But the team takes the field on Sunday, on national television, and what they practiced in secret is broadcast to all the world. So it is in Masonry.

One minor nit to pick: Masonry is a non-profit organization. The huge majority of work is done by volunteers. In some lodges, the younger men are there for every event, and donating many man-hours of labor. In some lodges, the retired members have more free time, and they are in every event, also donating their time and labor. If you petition, and join our Craft you will see this.


----------



## cemab4y (Mar 13, 2015)

Masonry did realize a huge "spike" in membership in the years following WW2. There were many contributing factors to this "boom". Returning veterans sought out the similar camaraderie that they experienced while in uniform. The rituals and brotherhood were enjoyed. And there were fewer leisure activities than there are today. You should take a look at the "Flintstones" cartoon show. Hanna and Barbera were Freemasons. and they patterned the "Water Buffalo Lodge", after Freemasonry.

The decline in membership in the 1960/1970 time frame, has several causative factors. More leisure activities, Cable TV, and most particularly a more mobile population.

Prior to WW2, most men would be born , be educated, and live in the same community where their fathers and grandfathers lived. WW2 scattered the male population all over the USA. The huge growth of Los Angeles, and other western cities, is the direct result of men being stationed in these western areas during the war.

Men used to join the same organizations that their fathers/grandfathers used to. No more.

The rise of social media, (and other factors) has reduced interest in social and fraternal organizations. Younger men have family and career commitments.

Maybe I am optimistic, but I feel that the current generation of young men may be seeking the camaraderie and fellowship that organizations like Freemasonry offer. The interest in the Dan Brown films/books, has had a positive effect.

It is an exciting time to be Mason!


----------



## cemab4y (Mar 13, 2015)

The list of Masons who are famous, is long and distinguished.

See:

http://www.masonicinfo.com/famous1.htm

With the overall decline in our membership cohort, the number of famous masons will be less.

One of my favorite celebrity Masons, is the late Mel Blanc. He did the voices for the cartoons I enjoyed as a child (and still enjoy).

Another is the late Clerow "Flip" Wilson, a pioneer of television, he was the first black entertainer to host a national comedy/variety show. He created the unforgettable "Geraldine Jones".


----------



## RyanC (Mar 13, 2015)

[QUOTE="Companion Joe, post: 143188, member: 14089"
As for younger people joining _... Millennials are a "me, me, me" group who, when they consider joining something, ask "what can I get out of this?" With Freemasonry - or any number of other such worthwhile organizations - you should ask "what can I contribute?"_[/QUOTE] 
I think you might have missed the point here,"Freemasonry make good man better". It says nothing about a group but a people, so yes what can "I" get out of Freemasonry. I hope gain that knowledge through Freemasonry to make "me" the better person, that I (I, is again me) hope to become. But like every thing else after I gain the knowledge it is my duty to pass it on to the newer brothers.


----------



## cemab4y (Mar 13, 2015)

John Doe123 said:


> Thank you Morris for your reply.  Well, both of these mutually exclusive questions are 100% true for me.
> 
> To break the tiebreaker I am here to learn.  On the downside, the time investment and drawbacks in being a member are considerable.  For one thing, it is very hard to know who I know is a Mason and two people must co-sign the petition. Another known downside is being hated by many conspiracy theorists.  All these downsides make me question if it is worthwhile.



Do not be concerned, that you do not have a long-term relationship with any Masons. Most men approach the fraternity "cold", without any close relationships with any Masons. If your opinion of Freemasonry is favorable, the lodge will assist you in locating a sponsor or sponsors. Some states do not require that you have any Masonic signers, only that you can provide the names/addresses of two people who know you, and can vouch for your character.

You need not be concerned about any conspiracy theorists. Fringe people are willing to believe anything, you should pay them no mind.


----------



## cemab4y (Mar 13, 2015)

John Doe123 said:


> Sure, of course.
> 
> There are certainly wealthy philanthropists who have extra time and money to help out people in need.  If Masons fit into that category, I would probably only do them a disservice by joining, since my own resources are limited.



Again, do not be concerned. Masonry is NOT a charitable organization. This may sound odd, considering the fact that Masonically-affiliated charities donate over $2.6 million dollars per day to various charitable causes.

Freemasonry is a fraternal organization, but it is more. It has been described as a "peculiar [unique] system of morality, veiled in allegory, and illustrated by symbols". The Craft teaches many things. One thing you will hear is "Freemasonry makes good men, better". This is quite true.

I am hardly a man of means, and certainly no philanthropist. The primary donors of charitable funds, in the Masonic family of organizations, are the appendant bodies, like the Shrine.

I joined when I was in college, and I was not wealthy then, and I not wealthy now.


----------



## dfreybur (Mar 13, 2015)

John Doe123 said:


> I've gotten some reasons here in the thread having to do with the baby boomers, but it isn't really explaining it ...



Sometimes the problem runs one way sometimes the other.  Being a member of the workaholic non-joiner generation I'm willing to judge the majority of my generation - Most of us have no idea about life balance.  I was that type of workaholic until I hit 35.  The problem was with the general trend in that generation not with Masonry.  Now the new generation knew up watching the workaholics of my generation and they are looking for life balance.  So they are petitioning in droves.  This time it's a generational trend that benefits Masonry.  But consider - That workaholic attitude held up the economy of the entire world as the Soviet Union struggled then collapsed.  Was it worth it to each of us individually to give our lives to work and end up seeing little return?  Probably not.  Was it worth it to the world that our workaholics made the economy continue through that gigantic cultural change?  Definitely.  Yet me got called the Me Generation.  It's a mixed bag.



> One bad sign is in response to my question someone mentioned the long history.



Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.  Those who do learn from history are doomed to watch the rest repeat it.



> You had great people.  Now you may have less great people.  Telling me you had great people 300 years ago is like telling me you have mediocre people now.  The lists of living and famous masons seems to be getting shorter.



Read Homer's Iliad and Odyssey again.  Those books are 5000 yeas old and they report the same view of previous and current generations.



> It suggests to me that they either don't want new members or they are incompetent.



Or that they are low budget volunteer groups and as with every such group it takes vast membership and/or vast budget to have a good web site.


----------



## cemab4y (Mar 13, 2015)

quote

It suggests to me that they either don't want new members or they are incompetent.

Or that they are low budget volunteer groups and as with every such group it takes vast membership and/or vast budget to have a good web site. end quote

Not all Masonic lodges are embracing the internet with equal enthusiasm. Some lodges have members who opposed to having any internet presence at all.

As an IT professional, I must disagree that it is beyond the reach of lodges to have an internet presence. You can get a Facebook page for free. There are many website providers who will cut a non-profit discount. And a lodge can sell ads on their website, and defray the cost.

IMHO- Any lodge that does not have some type of internet presence, is doing so of their own choosing.


----------



## JJones (Mar 13, 2015)

Honestly, I think so many lodges don't have good websites (or any at all) is because they are made up of older members who don't appreciate the value of the internet.  They aren't stupid or incompetent...but many of them have little or no experience with the internet.  How can you appreciate the value of something you don't fully understand?

My old lodge had a website and a Facebook.  My current lodge has one of the old broken websites and the majority of the members are older.  I've come to lean towards the opinion that a Facebook page is more than adequate.


----------



## MarkR (Mar 14, 2015)

Thanks for reminding me to update the lodge website.  I haven't changed the information about the "next meeting" since it occurred on Tuesday!

There . . . done!


----------



## dalinkou (Mar 14, 2015)

John Doe123 said:


> I don't want to step aboard a sinking ship.  I only want to be on winning teams.



There are many good organizations out there, and many of them are doing good things.  You should keep looking.


----------



## Derinique Kendrick (Mar 15, 2015)

@John Doe123 I felt exactly how you feel as far as the curiosity as to why younger men don't seek to join lodges. But at the same token I don't dwell on it, because it benefits me in no way. I think nowadays some of the younger generation either don't necessarily know about masons, haven't really been exposed to it (seeing that they don't recruit), or maybe they just don't care about it [at the moment or period unformately]. I can only speak for myself. I'm 24. I'm not a mason [yet] By the way. The lodge I petitioned, the youngest member that they have if I had to take a guess would be late 30s to early 40s. Like I mentioned earlier when I noticed that I wondered why there were no younger members, but I quickly killed that though because I thought what should it really matter, if it's something I want to do and I know my reason for why I want to join, why should me being the youngest member [if initiated] matter. 

I have the thought of if I am given the opportunity to join, I would use myself to promote the fact that a young man is a part of the lodge and hopefully be a role model and lead by example to hopefully get the younger generation to become interested, learn about it, and to eventually petition for membership. 

My advice from a fellow seeker to another, don't look too deeply into the reasons there aren't many young masons compared to older masons, gather your reasons for potentially wanting to join  and just go for what you want if you decide it is something that you want to do. I hope I was able to help in some way or another. I used my situation to give feedback and offer support. If you decide to petition, best of luck!


----------



## phulseapple (Mar 17, 2015)

Good Morning Mr. John Doe -  After reading your initial question and subsequent replies, I would encourage you to look elsewhere to join.  I can say for a fact that in my lodge, we are seeing an upswing in the number of younger members.  Our most recent group of 8, included 7 under the age of 40.  Our current officer line of 13 is comprised of 8 under the age of 40.  Our average age has dropped dramatically from roughly 50-60 down to about 40-45.  In reality, it is not about the numbers of members.  It is about the quality of the membership.  Over the past year, my lodge had 15 men approach us about joining.  Of those 15, we brought in 8.  The other 7 were in a similar stage in life as you appear to be.  They were more interested in simply completing the degrees quickly and being a mason in name only.  They too were concerned with how many younger guys were there and not with the quality of men they would be associating with.  They were advised to either wait a few years and reevaluate their intentions, or to simply look at other lodges who may be more accustomed to their churn 'em and burn 'em philosophy.  Masonry is not a race to be won.  It is a life long journey to be enjoyed.


----------



## Ripcord22A (Mar 18, 2015)

^^^^^Hes right ya know!(said in my best Morgan Freeman voice)


----------



## JMartinez (Mar 19, 2015)

From personal experience, I joined masonry at 18. I was a senior in high school. Being young it was difficult to be taken seriously. Even now at 21 and JW of my lodge I am still some what segregated. My brothers do support me. I don't come from a Masonic lineage so there are brothers who try to play the "father role". Just the other day I was called out by a brother in a very unmasonic manner, and to my surprise every brother in the lodge had my back. I'll never leave.


----------

