# Hello everyone!



## LeoValMer05 (Jan 23, 2018)

My name is Jose, and I am a master mason from Puerto Rico that is living temporarily in Mexico. My Puertorican lodge is from the Scottish Rite, and is called Porvenir #88.


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## Bloke (Jan 23, 2018)

Greetings and welcome brother !


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## Warrior1256 (Jan 24, 2018)

Greetings and welcome to the forum Brother.


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## Keith C (Jan 24, 2018)

Welcome Brother!


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## Daniele (Feb 2, 2018)

Welcome my brother


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## CLewey44 (Feb 2, 2018)

Can someone explain this to me? I'm not AASR but maybe I'm missing something.

"My Puertorican lodge is* from the Scottish Rite*, and is called Porvenir #88"


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## Glen Cook (Feb 2, 2018)

They use the ritual of the Scottish Rite in the symbolic degrees. They are not part of the AASR SJ, all protestations to the contrary.


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## Warrior1256 (Feb 3, 2018)

Glen Cook said:


> They use the Scottish Rite. They are not part of the AASR SJ, all protestations to the contrary.


Brother Glen, I am confused. What does he mean when he says that his lodge is "from the Scottish Rite" and what do you mean when you say they "use" the Scottish Rite? Also I thought that the AASR SJ had jurisdiction over U.S. territories which would include Puerto Rico.


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## Glen Cook (Feb 3, 2018)

Some of the lodges of that jurisdiction are reported to use as the symbolic degrees those of the Scottish Rite; sometimes known as the red degrees.  That is the ritual they are reported to use.

However, the AASR-SJ governs no Grand Lodge. This would violate the doctrine of sovereignty over the symbolic degrees.

I edited my comment to make more sense.


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## Bro. Stewart P.M. (Feb 3, 2018)

Long story,  but the Red Degrees are something one should not miss in person. You can find this practice remains active as close as Louisiana.

Been there, done that. Awesome.


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## Bro. Stewart P.M. (Feb 3, 2018)

Warrior1256 said:


> Brother Glen, I am confused. What does he mean when he says that his lodge is "from the Scottish Rite" and what do you mean when you say they "use" the Scottish Rite? Also I thought that the AASR SJ had jurisdiction over U.S. territories which would include Puerto Rico.



You can find additional information relating to the Scottish Rite (Red Lodge) version of the initial 3 degrees in multiple locations throughout this site. Simply preform a “search” for any of the key words.


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## Warrior1256 (Feb 3, 2018)

Glen Cook said:


> Some of the lodges of that jurisdiction are reported to use as the symbolic degrees those of the Scottish Rite; sometimes known as the red degrees. That is the ritual they are reported to use.


Got it.


Glen Cook said:


> However, the AASR-SJ governs no Grand Lodge. This would violate the doctrine of sovereignty over the symbolic degrees.


Oh...O.K. The AASR SJ has jurisdiction over the Orient of Puerto Rico but not over the GL. 

Thank you for clearing up my misconceptions Brother. I get confused easily...lol.


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## Glen Cook (Feb 3, 2018)

Warrior1256 said:


> ...
> 
> The AASR SJ has jurisdiction over the Orient of Puerto Rico but not over the GL.


Well put.


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## dfreybur (Feb 3, 2018)

While the Scottish Rite performs degrees 4 though 32, they do have scripts for degrees 1 through 3.  When they work in regions with a grand lodge they don't use their own scripts for 1-3.  There are regions of the world where SR jurisdictions arrived first and there they do perform the degrees 1-3 using their own scripts.

I've seen the French version of the 1st degree originating from Louisiana doing the so-called "red degrees" or SR scripts.  The first degree is longer and more involved but contains very much the same material expanded.

When I took my AASR-SJ degrees in the previous generation of the scripts, there were events as late as the 8th degree that contained material from what I had experienced in my 3rd degree.  This tells me that by the time we reach the 3rd degree in the SR system the content has diverged considerably.  I figure any of us would recognize the overlap in either direction, so differences are matters of degree.  If you've been following recent discussions of Pennsylvania retaining Antient origin material (or is it Modern origin material) it's probably that amount of difference.


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## Warrior1256 (Feb 3, 2018)

dfreybur said:


> While the Scottish Rite performs degrees 4 though 32, they do have scripts for degrees 1 through 3. When they work in regions with a grand lodge they don't use their own scripts for 1-3. There are regions of the world where SR jurisdictions arrived first and there they do perform the degrees 1-3 using their own scripts.
> 
> I've seen the French version of the 1st degree originating from Louisiana doing the so-called "red degrees" or SR scripts. The first degree is longer and more involved but contains very much the same material expanded.
> 
> When I took my AASR-SJ degrees in the previous generation of the scripts, there were events as late as the 8th degree that contained material from what I had experienced in my 3rd degree. This tells me that by the time we reach the 3rd degree in the SR system the content has diverged considerably. I figure any of us would recognize the overlap in either direction, so differences are matters of degree. If you've been following recent discussions of Pennsylvania retaining Antient origin material (or is it Modern origin material) it's probably that amount of difference.


Thanks for the lesson Brother. I learn something every single day on this forum. Sad to say I learn much more here than I do in lodge.


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## Bro. Stewart P.M. (Feb 3, 2018)

Warrior1256 said:


> Thanks for the lesson Brother. I learn something every single day on this forum. Sad to say I learn much more here than I do in lodge.



It’s not a sad thing. We all learn from both inside and outside the Lodge room.


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## Bloke (Feb 3, 2018)

dfreybur said:


> While the Scottish Rite performs degrees 4 though 32, they do have scripts for degrees 1 through 3.  When they work in regions with a grand lodge they don't use their own scripts for 1-3.  There are regions of the world where SR jurisdictions arrived first and there they do perform the degrees 1-3 using their own scripts.



Indeed, and these are not just demonstrations - but how men receive the first three degrees. Some of those GLs are regular. I only learned this recently with Master Mason visitors from South America of SR GLs.. The most recent  being from Chile "The Grand Lodge Of Chile is the only regular Masonic organization on Chilean territory. There are 200 Lodges that work under its obedience, of which 194 practice the Ancient Accepted Scottish Rite, two practice the York Rite and four practice the Schröder Rite. "

Source of the quote http://medianetworks.cl/logias/eng/glogia.htm


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## Warrior1256 (Feb 4, 2018)

Bloke said:


> four practice the Schröder Rite. "


I have never heard of this. All that I could find on it is that it was created by Fredrick Ludwig Shroder in 1801 and is practiced primarily in Germany and Brazil.


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## Glen Cook (Feb 4, 2018)

Bloke said:


> Indeed, and these are not just demonstrations - but how men receive the first three degrees. Some of those GLs are regular. I only learned this recently with Master Mason visitors from South America of SR GLs.. The most recent  being from Chile "The Grand Lodge Of Chile is the only regular Masonic organization on Chilean territory. There are 200 Lodges that work under its obedience, of which 194 practice the Ancient Accepted Scottish Rite, two practice the York Rite and four practice the Schröder Rite. "
> 
> Source of the quote http://medianetworks.cl/logias/eng/glogia.htm


Similarly, I understand in Brazil you can find these and the Rectified Rite.


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## Bloke (Feb 4, 2018)

Warrior1256 said:


> I have never heard of this. All that I could find on it is that it was created by Fredrick Ludwig Shroder in 1801 and is practiced primarily in Germany and Brazil.


I dont know much about it either beyond what you've said Bro Warrior, but there are many Craft Rituals beyond Emulation and Preston/Webb. Bro Glenn once posted a large list of them here.


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## Bloke (Feb 4, 2018)

Glen Cook said:


> Similarly, I understand in Brazil you can find these and the Rectified Rite.


So it's not just a South American thing ? However, is Sth America the only place you can become a MM within the SR system, so far, I understand that's the case...


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## Elexir (Feb 4, 2018)

Bloke said:


> So it's not just a South American thing ? However, is Sth America the only place you can become a MM within the SR system, so far, I understand that's the case...




Portugal as well.

We have a brother who was one who had to start over as we dont recognize that GL.


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## Bloke (Feb 4, 2018)

Elexir said:


> Portugal as well.
> 
> We have a brother who was one who had to start over as we dont recognize that GL.


So we can't even say "the Spanish speaking world"... nothing's ever simply is it  The GL of Chile where you an get your MM in the Scottish Rite is actually in Amity with my GL, so visitors and transfers don't have issues...


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## Glen Cook (Feb 4, 2018)

Elexir said:


> Portugal as well.
> 
> We have a brother who was one who had to start over as we dont recognize that GL.


Indeed, Portugal has the choice of a number of systems.


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## Warrior1256 (Feb 4, 2018)

Bloke said:


> The GL of Chile where you an get your MM in the Scottish Rite is actually in Amity with my GL, so visitors and transfers don't have issues...





Glen Cook said:


> Indeed, Portugal has the choice of a number of systems.


Interesting!


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