# Does Masonry  cause Marital conflicts???



## youngblood2002 (Sep 14, 2012)

I have recently reached being made an EA. I am committed to becoming a MM. I have been married for 13 years.I have 4 children and 1 grandaughter. My concern is the time required to participate in Masonic-related activities going to cause a strain within the context of my marriage? The last thing I want is my wife being resentful toward Masonry.:confused1:


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## daddyrich (Sep 14, 2012)

In California, our candidate's initial interviews are recommended w/ spouses involved. Was this not the case with your Lodge?


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## SeeKer.mm (Sep 14, 2012)

In CT we prefer the spouse to be present that the investigation, however, it is not required.   Youngblood to answer your question, the amount of time it takes to be involved in Masonic activities is entirely up to you.  Once you become a Master Mason you are entitled to all the rights light and benefits of the lodge, but are never required to put Masonry in front of your family.  There will also be many activities that your wife and family will be able to participate in.  No one in your lodge should push you to put the lodge in front of family.  Quid pro quo, I am sure your wife will also support your decision and be understanding that there will be some time that you are at lodge...something you should have probably already discussed prior to even taking the EA, but of course there is no time like the present.  If you were to decide to become an officer in your lodge down the road, do remember that more of your time would be taken.  The short answer, how much you are able to dedicate and are willing to dedicate is entirely up to you.


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## towerbuilder7 (Sep 14, 2012)

It shouldn't even be an issue, Brother.   Your family is your PRIMARY obligation, and while Masonry includes obligations at certain points of your journey, there should be NOTHING that you put before your Wife and Children.  Masonry should reinforce the positive priorities that you currently have in your life, not rearrange them.     You never want your Wife or children to resent Masonry, because you spend all of your free time at the Lodge or at Lodge activities.    My goal is to make one stated meeting per month.     While you are going through your Degree work, you may have to spend a little more time away from home, but always make sure things at home are taken care of.                 Bro. Jones


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## T.N. Sampson (Sep 14, 2012)

youngblood2002 said:


> The last thing I want is my wife being resentful toward Masonry.


Some jurisdictions, I am told, require the candidate to remove his wedding band prior to the EA ceremony.  In such jurisdictions, I'd assume a wife's reaction to that would provide the best clue to her views and/or objections.  Cordially, Skip


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## youngblood2002 (Sep 14, 2012)

Thank you for your insight and wisdom. My wife does support me in my journey. In any activities I have been involved in the past I have always made an extra effort to let my wife know she is still a priority.I wanted more input from brothers that had more experience than myself. As I am invited to different events,working on degree activities I want to make the right decisions along the way....


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## chrmc (Sep 15, 2012)

In my opinion it shouldn't, unless she is against the idea of freemasonry, in which case that was probably a discussion that should be had before you even joined. 
Masonry, like many other interests, can take up a lot of time if you let it, but so can football, the softball club, your poker buddies etc. Hopefully masonry should help you grow as a man, which will benefit the family life. 

With regards to taking off the wedding ring for degrees, that is for purely esoteric reasons, and should not be a cause for concern. In no way to you swear any kind of allegiance that makes masonry more important than your wife. Quite the opposite I would say.


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## martin (Sep 15, 2012)

Here in Canada they actually ask the wife if she's not happy or she dosnt agree u can't be a mason , I think that is up to you too if u try to put masonry b4 your family I don't think that's right family first , masonry can take a lot of time in your life but again is up to the person how to manage the time and try not to interfere whit family matters


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## martin (Sep 15, 2012)

We have a guy in the lodge he actually wasn't married yet when he apply , he's wife to be wasn't really happy that he was going to be a mason because her dad was a night of Columbus  but in the case we ask him so what you want to do , that s not a strong reason of her for you not to b a mason in this case that's ur call , you r not married yet so really she's got nothing on u yet  , so he join the order and they still got married


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## Michael Hatley (Sep 15, 2012)

Methinks the success and strength of a marriage has very little to do with 2-3 meetings a month.  If it can't survive that, then there are or were relationship issues that has little to do with masonry goin on.  In that context, it doesn't matter if its a regularly organized poker game, a bowling league, a church prayer group or whatever - everything will likely exacerbate the problems.

Now if once a MM you join every appendant body available to you and every day of the week go out to do something masonic then of course you will run into trouble.   The well is deep in masonry, and you can spread yourself thin if you try to do all of it.  It is why the majority of those types are retirees, they have more time.  All of that stuff is optional.  Just be willing to say no to some of it.  

Masonry is not very time consuming really if you don't try to be Super Mason, and few younger dudes try and do that - especially the married types.  Your family comes first, period.


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## SeeKer.mm (Sep 15, 2012)

T.N. Sampson said:


> Some jurisdictions, I am told, require the candidate to remove his wedding band prior to the EA ceremony.  In such jurisdictions, I'd assume a wife's reaction to that would provide the best clue to her views and/or objections.  Cordially, Skip


 
I think you are twisting the point.  You aren't asked to take off your wedding band to symbolize a loss of connection with your spouse...but you take off your school ring, your necklace, earrings, glasses...  I won't go into the lessons or into any other details as not to cross the line of breaking secrecy, but really...some people take their wedding rings off to go to sleep so I think your comment is reaching a little bit.  Please take no offense either, just giving my opinion on the comment..thanks.


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## Ashlar (Sep 15, 2012)

I think if a wife has a problem with her husband attending lodge two or three times a month , there are bigger issues at play . I find it unhealthy for my wife and I to be up each others butts 24/7 . We need our outside interests that does NOT include one another to keep our marriage healthy . and I am at one lodge or another several times a month . If she want me to to come home early , I will leave lodge early or I will not go at all . BUT , I do not put lodge before her needs in that if she has plans for us , I will skip a Masonic function like tonight , I was asked to help out with a sister lodge's degree work but she has plans so i told the lodge no . The one thing I will say is , the wife and I love one another , but we do not dictate when and where each other goes . We may be married , but we do not own one another . We need our "me time" away from one another .

As for the ring . I have never understood men and/or their wives getting upset over it's removal for a couple of hours , in a room full of men . I was not allowed to wear mine on the job due to the danger of losing a finger . My wedding band does not prove my love and dedication to my wife , no , that would be our 18 year marriage of love and devotion .


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## jvarnell (Sep 15, 2012)

My doesn"t really care that i am a ea and in the process she does'nt understand what i can't go to stated meeting untill i am a mm.  I try to explan it and it dose'nt work.  I keep telling her that she will that this is good.  My wife dosen't care if i am a mason  she just wants me  make her do the othe orgs that she could belong too.


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## Bill Lins (Sep 15, 2012)

The question was "Does Masonry cause Marital conflicts?" The answer is "It can* IF You Let It*". The Fraternity is not in the business of breaking up relationships or marriages. The petitioner or Brother is responsible for ensuring that his participation in Masonry does not interfere with his duties to his family- those duties MUST come first.


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## T.N. Sampson (Sep 15, 2012)

SeeKer.mm said:


> I think you are twisting the point.


I'm familiar with the Rite of Destitution and it's intent.  My point was more that the wife would know of, and approve, the requirement beforehand.  I'd assume that would be the case.



> Please take no offense either, just giving my opinion on the comment..thanks.


None taken, as I hope is the case with my remarks.  Cordially, Skip.


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## dhouseholder (Sep 15, 2012)

T.N. Sampson said:


> I'm familiar with the Rite of Destitution and it's intent.  My point was more that the wife would know of, and approve, the requirement beforehand.  I'd assume that would be the case.



From being married for barely 6 years, I can with full faith say that if one's wife would get mad at something as simple as momentarily taking off a wedding ring, then there would be a whole list of other things that are wrong in that marriage in the first place. 

As other brothers have said, family first. Masonry second. 

My wife jokes about sometimes she is a Masonic widow, and I know that she would rather have me all to herself, but she also knows that going to lodge and learning about Masonry makes me happy and that ultimately it makes me a better person, so she is OK with it. 

_ALTHOUGH,_ she has threatened to leave me if I get any *more* Masonry in my life (appendant bodies, etc...) :laugh:


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## Blake Bowden (Sep 15, 2012)

I would say no if you remain within the length of your cable tow. FAMILY first period. As you grow as a Mason, your Wife will respect you even more as a Man.


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## RedTemplar (Sep 16, 2012)

I was a Past Master before I ever met my wife.  When we were dating and through the first few years of marriage she would occasionally throw a pity party when I wanted to attend lodge.  In the past few years, however, my wife seems to look forward to lodge night more than I do.  Maybe I need to have a pity party, myself.


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## Ashlar (Sep 16, 2012)

Bill_Lins77488 said:


> The question was "Does Masonry cause Marital conflicts?" The answer is "It can* IF You Let It*". The Fraternity is not in the business of breaking up relationships or marriages. The petitioner or Brother is responsible for ensuring that his participation in Masonry does not interfere with his duties to his family- those duties MUST come first.


 
This is true , some Masons get out of control and try to be at every function in their area . The brethren I have in mind when I read these types of threads are the men married to women who want to control when/where their husbands can go and what they can do . I know a few young Masons who want to be (more) active but can not because their wives will not allow them ONE night a month at lodge . This does not make for a healthy marriage  . There are DUTIES to your family and then there is  trust and control issues . These are two different animals and something I would not stand for myself .


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## Bro_Vick (Sep 16, 2012)

youngblood2002 said:


> I have recently reached being made an EA. I am committed to becoming a MM. I have been married for 13 years.I have 4 children and 1 grandaughter. My concern is the time required to participate in Masonic-related activities going to cause a strain within the context of my marriage? The last thing I want is my wife being resentful toward Masonry.:confused1:



Not really, if my wife doesn't want me to go to a function I simply don't go, no drama. If the function is important enough than I give her plenty of notice and she has never bulked at my attendance.

During the summer when we don't have anything and a lot of bodies don't meet, she asks "Don't you have Masons soon?"  

S&F,
-Bro Vick


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## Ashlar (Sep 16, 2012)

Bro_Vick said:


> During the summer when we don't have anything and a lot of bodies don't meet, she asks "Don't you have Masons soon?"
> 
> S&F,
> -Bro Vick



When I am getting on the wife's nerves , a by-product of being up each other's butts , she will ask me "Isn't there a lodge somewhere you can go !? "


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## Michael Hatley (Sep 16, 2012)

Something else I might mention, is that if you wind up joining the Shriners you might have the same experience as I had.  My wife actually wound up more into going to Shriner stuff than me, which was a surprise.  Bingo and dances and whatnot seemed way too nerdy for her, or so I thought.

Here is the trick that I lucked into: wait till there is an event that she sorta wants to go to at the Shrine...for me it was a bingo/poker night.  Then go lazy and beg off going the night of.  Its like the playing hard to get bit I guess, because now she reads the newsletter thingie and pesters me about goint to every event on the calendar :8:


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## Bro. Stewart P.M. (Sep 16, 2012)

I say no. However, I must admit that I probably get away with "being away" so much only because of my wife's active involvement in the Order of the Eastern Star.

Otherwise, I probably would not be as active as I currently am...


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## Traveling Man (Sep 16, 2012)

Re: Skip Sampson's comment: Hint, he already knows. He's trying to be divisive again. Old saw, same Â¢rap, he won't give up. City's...


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## BryanMaloney (Sep 16, 2012)

My wife is already champing at the bit to start OES. She can go ahead before I'm raised, since her grandfather was a Master Mason.


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## Tx4ever (Sep 16, 2012)

My wife of 30 years has fully supported my masonic journey.  I have been secretary,JW,SW and now WM.Grand Lodge every year,Fundraisers .degree teams etc etc. I am also very active in the shrine. With out her *full support  *i could not  be as active as i would like to be. We are also members and officers in OES. The first week of each month is tough. Shrine Monday, Lodge Tuesday and OES on Thursday.We LOVE IT! PS We both still work full time jobs and have a very active Hunting/Fishing schedule. I thank God everyday for all the blessings ive been given.


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## California Master (Sep 17, 2012)

T.N. Sampson said:


> Some jurisdictions, I am told, require the candidate to remove his wedding band prior to the EA ceremony.  In such jurisdictions, I'd assume a wife's reaction to that would provide the best clue to her views and/or objections.  Cordially, Skip


 
It's almost universal in all jurisdictions to have the candidate remove *all *metallic objects during initiations. You must use descretion. If removing a wedding band would offend the candidate, wrap the ring with tape and explain to him that this is symbolic of him not having the metal in possession. All of which will be explained to him when he receives his degree. After becoming an Entered Apprenctice Mason, it shouldn't be an issue.


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## T.N. Sampson (Sep 17, 2012)

California Master said:


> If removing a wedding band would offend the candidate, wrap the ring with tape and explain to him that this is symbolic of him not having the metal in possession.


The HI GL addressed it thusly in their 2010 Code:





> 2688a.  Where a candidate refuses to be divested of all minerals and metals, insisting on retaining a wedding ring on his finger because of his marriage vows, he should be rejected, and the Master should so declare at the next regular meeting of the Lodge.  If minerals and metal cannot be removed, as where a finger has become too large to permit removal of a ring, substantial compliance may be permitted, and the ring maybe taped and disregarded.


Few GL Codes that I've seen address the issue, so I do not know if all jurisdictions maintain the same policy as does HI.  The CA GL deleted the Code section allowing the ring to be taped in 2006 and the WI GL seems to follow HI should the candidate refuse to remove his ring.  I do not have access to the TX GL code.

My earlier point was that if the wife did not know that her husband would be required to remove his wedding band, it might cause the type of problems inherent in the thread title.  Thus, it would appear wise to ensure that the interview process made the issue plain to both.  A candidate not prepared for the demand would find himself in a bit of a quandry, and in effect, forced to choose between his wedding vows and Masonry.  Cordially, Skip.


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## Brent Heilman (Sep 17, 2012)

My wife is fully supportive of me. Her dad was a Mason so she knows what all that entails. If we have a family function or plans on a Lodge night or degree night I simply tell the Brothers I will not be there. It has never been an issue and most likely won't ever be. My wife was not present during my investigation simply because she was out of town. She gives me a hard time about being at the lodge so long when I am there but she has no problem with it, and believe me if she did she would let me know! The only way that it can cause problems is if Masonry starts to replace her. If you go to every single get together, meeting, and join every appendant body and attend every function of theirs then I can see it causing problems in a marriage. If we divide our time liek we are taught then there is no problem.

As far as the whole wedding ring issue goes, if your wife has a problem with you taking it off for a very short amount of time then there are much larger issues that need to be dealt with. I one of my former jobs I didn't wear rings while at work. I didn't want a degloving accident or to lose a finger. If my wife thought because I was removing my ring at work meant that I wasn't faithful or I didn't honor my vows we wouldn't have stayed married anyway. Of course we did get a divorce later because of her actions not because I didn't wear my ring at work. 

Another question is how would she ever know? I know for one I didn't get home the night of my initiation and go on about how I had to remove my wedding ring. I can only see the ring being an issue for those that want to make it one. If there is such a hang up about removing it you probably shouldn't be petitioning anyway. It isn't like I have to remove it every time I walk through the doors. 

I personally feel that if a person is making such a big deal about a wedding ring then they are looking for an excuse to get out already. They will not be an asset to the Lodge and will soon go suspended.


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## T.N. Sampson (Sep 19, 2012)

Brent Heilman said:


> Another question is how would she ever know?


Better question:  what would she do if she found out afterwards?  I don't believe that a wife must know your every thought or your every action; however, she should be aware of things that pertain to your marriage.  Ensuring she knows is the ounce of prevention.  Cordially, Skip.


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## cemab4y (Sep 19, 2012)

Does Masonry cause Marital conflicts?  There is no easy answer. Each marriage is unique, so each time that a man takes up some activity, like fishing or bowling, there is a "ripple"effect. 

As for myself, my wife is 100% supportive. Although she does not wish to know the specifics, she has no problem with me associating with good men, a couple of times a month. In fact, she looks forward to the privacy, and getting to control the TV set. 

I would encourage any candidate for Masonry, who has concerns in this regard, to have his wife talk it over with some other Masonic wives. Women are truthful to one another, and I believe that any concerns would be addressed.

My lodge has very few "co-ed" activities. But the Shrine has all types of dinners, dances, parties, barbecues, etc, for the member AND his lady. That is one reason that I encourage all MMs to seriously consider the Shrine, for the activities for the wife and kids. 

My wife was never interested, until I took her to a "hillbilly" club (A Shrine organization). She was "hooked" right away. The Hillbillies have country dancing,and covered dish suppers, and barbecues, that are terrific. 

As far as having to remove your wedding band during Masonic degree work, if a man has promised his wife that he wishes to keep the ring on, he is free to cover the ring with white adhesive tape during the degree work. Wearing a ring does'nt make you married, any more that putting on a badge makes you a police officer.


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## Brent Heilman (Sep 19, 2012)

T.N. Sampson said:


> Better question:  what would she do if she found out afterwards?  I don't believe that a wife must know your every thought or your every action; however, she should be aware of things that pertain to your marriage.  Ensuring she knows is the ounce of prevention.  Cordially, Skip.


 
I can tell you what my wife would say, and that is nothing. I take off my rings at night when I go to bed, sometimes I forget to put them back on. It isn't a big deal to her. She will give me a hard time about it, but takes no offense. The ring you wear is nothing more than a symbol or token of your vows. I have a couple of friends whose ring hides a tattoo. So when the ring is removed there is a tat there that still symbolizes their union. In reality if your marriage can be threatened by the removing a ring then you need a marriage counselor. Something this trivial and being made such a big deal of is ridiculous. It is almost like what is being said is if I don't wear my MM ring then I am not upholding my obligations and can't be considered a Mason.


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