# Boy - this will sure make you think!!!!!



## jonesvilletexas (Jan 7, 2010)

OBITUARY 
Born 1776, Died 2008  

It does not hurt to read this several times.
Professor Joseph Olson of Hamline University School of Law, St. Paul,  Minnesota, points out some interesting facts concerning last November's Presidential election:                                  
a.. Number of States won by: Obama: 19    McCain: 29    b.. Square miles of land won by: Obama: 580,000    McCain: 2,427,000 Population of counties won by: Obama: 127 million        McCain: 143 million 
Murder rate per 100,000 residents in counties won by: 
Obama: 13.2    McCain: 2.1 
Professor Olson adds: "In aggregate, the map of the territory McCain won was mostly the land owned by the taxpaying citizens of the country. 
Obama territory mostly encompassed those citizens living in low income tenements and living off various forms of government welfare..." 
Olson believes the United States is now somewhere between the "complacency and apathy" phase of Professor Tyler's definition of democracy, with some forty percent of the nation's population already having reached the "governmental dependency" phase. 
If Congress grants amnesty and citizenship to twenty million criminal invaders  called  illegalâ€™s and they vote, then we can say goodbye to the  USA in fewer than five years. 
If you are in favor of this, then by all means, delete this message.
If you are not, then pass this along to help everyone realize just how much is at stake, knowing that apathy is the greatest danger to our freedom.


----------



## drapetomaniac (Jan 7, 2010)

Click to continue thinking: http://www.snopes.com/politics/ballot/athenian.asp


----------



## js4253 (Jan 8, 2010)

As long as government has ACORN working for them the silent majority will be in trouble.  Even if that article is false, it does make you think.  The problem is, the silent majority of people who disagree with the direction our country is taking, will sit back and watch it go to hell.


----------



## B.Eddlemon (Jan 8, 2010)

drapetomaniac said:


> Click to continue thinking: http://www.snopes.com/politics/ballot/athenian.asp


 



I am unsure which way you were going with your post but, I fell that you are just a little off with you website suggestion. That takes you to the 2000 election between Bush and Gore. The 2009 election numbers prove that there were a major major major (i cant quote the exact number) amount of the American population who had never voted but voted this election that: 
1. Are un-employed
2. Receive some sort of Government Assistance

Me personaly, I could care less what color of skin the person has or what sex they are if they do a good job. I fell that this election was very racialy biased and that is wrong. I would have rather voted for Condoleezza Rice for President. Lets kill two birds with one stone......She is African-American and a woman. 

Again numbers speak for themselves just look at the Presidents approval rating. Never has congress had as many law breakers in office as right now.


----------



## JTM (Jan 8, 2010)

B.Eddlemon said:


> I am unsure which way you were going with your post but, I fell that you are just a little off with you website suggestion. That takes you to the 2000 election between Bush and Gore. The 2009 election numbers prove that there were a major major major (i cant quote the exact number) amount of the American population who had never voted but voted this election that:
> 1. Are un-employed
> 2. Receive some sort of Government Assistance
> 
> ...



this email is the same as the 2000 election email regarding this issue, except with Obama and McCain instead of Gore/Bush.


----------



## B.Eddlemon (Jan 8, 2010)

I see. Im sorry, I had not received that email and had only seen it here. Thank you for clearing it up.


----------



## drapetomaniac (Jan 8, 2010)

It does make you think.  Of how easy it is to demonize fellow Americans and how its a common tactic, especially when you put the poor on the other end of the stick.

Since you brought it up, I would love to see the theories on how this election was racially biased and how people were forced to put their secret ballot in for a Black man.  And why prior Black candidates failed to even win the primary of either party.  The idea that Obama was voted for because he was Black is ridiculous.  There have been many candidates in the past who didn't make it far, and others who didn't win their primaries - in both parties.  The same goes for women before Hillary.



> Never has congress had as many law breakers in office as right now.



Well, let's wait for the indictments to catch up to the W era: http://www.citizen.org/congress/articles.cfm?ID=17803



> The 2009 election numbers prove that there were a major major major (i cant quote the exact number) amount of the American population who had never voted but voted this election that: 1. Are un-employed 2. Receive some sort of Government Assistance



God forbid the poor should get involved with their government.

As often as I see these emails I have to wonder why people are so proud to be American if their fellow Americans are such scum.

The gist of this email is that liberals are lazy murderers.  And its been recycled (whoever changes the names know they are actively lying) in the same circles for a decade now.

It doesn't make you think, it makes you regurgitate lies and paranoid schemes while demonizing extremely large populations of Americans.


----------



## JTM (Jan 8, 2010)

> God forbid the poor should get involved with their government.



this has actually proven to be a very bad idea time and time again.  for the poor to get involved with the government, that it.



> It doesn't make you think, it makes you regurgitate lies and paranoid schemes while demonizing extremely large populations of Americans.



sure, but let's remember that everybody does this.


----------



## B.Eddlemon (Jan 8, 2010)

First, my reply wasn’t meant to strike a nerve so let me apologize for that. I am in my opinion considered in todays income range as poor. I live pay check to pay check like alot of Americans. I vote and have voted for several years so I don’t see where being poor has anything to do with getting involved with government. 

Second, I have been involved in numerous political conversations and until the election of the current president none of my conversation ever resulted in the disagreeing parties getting mad. Say something negative about George Bush and most don’t say a word, but let someone express their opinion against Obama and supporters lose their minds. At this point in the game neither you nor I can do anything about decisions made by President Obama therefore it is useless for us to bicker back and forth as to the reason for his election. It still should not matter if he is black, white, or purple is he is capable of running this country properly and not running it into the ground. We can procrastinate all day long about how well or bad he might do but only time will tell. I only hope that for the sake of my children and grand children that my opinion is incorrect.

Last, I hope that no matter what both of political views are that we can put any and all differences of opinions behind us and practice more on Brotherly love and our passion for Masonry. Good day Sir. Bryan


----------



## drapetomaniac (Jan 8, 2010)

JTM said:


> this has actually proven to be a very bad idea time and time again.  for the poor to get involved with the government, that it.



I don't doubt it - but the more educated *everyone* is and the more accessible society is (jobs, upward mobility, equally education, etc) the less of an issue.

However, right now, Latin America just had a huge shift in left leaning elections - and this knew upsurge of the poor has put into power Leftists with economic experience and degrees in the field.  So while the focus is left - it's not as socialist as it would have been 20 years ago.



JTM said:


> sure, but let's remember that everybody does this.



No reason for us to.  Even the ones celebrating our military or other servicemen and women frequently end by slamming other Americans.

While I stopped listening to Air America because its just as shrill as Rush Limbaugh, in the chain mail area liberals are beat hands down.  I can remember one or two liberal oriented ones in the past 15 years or so.  And frankly, liberals tend to acknowledge we have a fairly incompetent and mealy mouthed propaganda or media machine.  (Which is why Air America almost went under)


----------



## JTM (Jan 8, 2010)

B.Eddlemon said:


> First, my reply wasn’t meant to strike a nerve so let me apologize for that. I am in my opinion considered in todays income range as poor. I live pay check to pay check like alot of Americans. I vote and have voted for several years so I don’t see where being poor has anything to do with getting involved with government.
> 
> Second, I have been involved in numerous political conversations and until the election of the current president none of my conversation ever resulted in the disagreeing parties getting mad. Say something negative about George Bush and most don’t say a word, but let someone express their opinion against Obama and supporters lose their minds. At this point in the game neither you nor I can do anything about decisions made by President Obama therefore it is useless for us to bicker back and forth as to the reason for his election. It still should not matter if he is black, white, or purple is he is capable of running this country properly and not running it into the ground. We can procrastinate all day long about how well or bad he might do but only time will tell. I only hope that for the sake of my children and grand children that my opinion is incorrect.
> 
> Last, I hope that no matter what both of political views are that we can put any and all differences of opinions behind us and practice more on Brotherly love and our passion for Masonry. Good day Sir. Bryan


 
i don't think you struck a nerve, more like struck a conversation!


----------



## JTM (Jan 8, 2010)

drapetomaniac said:


> I don't doubt it - but the more educated *everyone* is and the more accessible society is (jobs, upward mobility, equally education, etc) the less of an issue.
> 
> However, right now, Latin America just had a huge shift in left leaning elections - and this knew upsurge of the poor has put into power Leftists with economic experience and degrees in the field.  So while the focus is left - it's not as socialist as it would have been 20 years ago.



the plebes will bring us down.



> No reason for us to.  Even the ones celebrating our military or other servicemen and women frequently end by slamming other Americans.
> 
> While I stopped listening to Air America because its just as shrill as Rush Limbaugh, in the chain mail area liberals are beat hands down.  I can remember one or two liberal oriented ones in the past 15 years or so.  And frankly, liberals tend to acknowledge we have a fairly incompetent and mealy mouthed propaganda or media machine.  (Which is why Air America almost went under)


 
i didn't say we needed a reason, but everybody does it.


----------



## drapetomaniac (Jan 8, 2010)

JTM said:


> i didn't say we needed a reason, but everybody does it.


 
Yeah - my kids know better better than to use the ol' "they did it too"  routine. :17:

Yeah, everyone does it.  Now, cut it out and use our tools.:6:


----------



## drapetomaniac (Jan 8, 2010)

B.Eddlemon said:


> First, my reply wasnâ€™t meant to strike a nerve so let me apologize for that. I am in my opinion considered in todays income range as poor. I live pay check to pay check like alot of Americans. I vote and have voted for several years so I donâ€™t see where being poor has anything to do with getting involved with government.



My nerve is struck on "my perception" of demonizing the poor.  I see it in a lot of emails, a lot of political strategy and unfortunately a lot among a lot of men who are associated with being charitable.  Anyone has the right to strike that nerve, I'm just less in the habit of remaining silent about that.  And, when I can't take the heat, I'll get out of the thread.  I've done that in other topics and simply joined back in when I'm more tempered.



B.Eddlemon said:


> Second, I have been involved in numerous political conversations and until the election of the current president none of my conversation ever resulted in the disagreeing parties getting mad. Say something negative about George Bush and most donâ€™t say a word, but let someone express their opinion against Obama and supporters lose their minds.



Hopefully asking you to qualify your statements doesn't include "losing my mind."  I don't think anyone lost their mind in this thread.  

I will point out that GWB is in the lowest 3 of presidents for approval ratings, so that may affect how many people step forward to protect him - that said, I assure you there was a time where it was unpatriotic to criticize him.  The media will admit they submitted to that.  Even now there are people protecting him saying there was never a domestic attack under Bush.  With wars on, the talk of respecting the "commander in chief" is always extremely high, and I can assure you its been in full effect in the past many years.



B.Eddlemon said:


> At this point in the game neither you nor I can do anything about decisions made by President Obama therefore it is useless for us to bicker back and forth as to the reason for his election.



You insinuated he won an election because he was Black and that somehow forced others to vote for him (even though others tried the same thing before him in both parties).  I am truly interested in the often repeated concept that people in private voting booths were forced to vote for a man because he was Black.  I can certainly provide  the flashbacks the Black community has been experiencing since his campaign on public use of race if needed.  If voting federal monitors and an AG under a GOP administration fully overlooked and didn't report massive fraud, that would be interesting too.

I have a vested interest - if I can become president, that's something to look into.  I've had the opposite experience and expectation until now.  



B.Eddlemon said:


> Last, I hope that no matter what both of political views are that we can put any and all differences of opinions behind us and practice more on Brotherly love and our passion for Masonry. Good day Sir. Bryan


 
I hope the same.  And while we are more especially  supposed to act as such amongst ourselves, hope we can reflect our wider Brotherhood as well.

This is a publicly facing forum on most topics.


----------



## Smokey613 (Jan 9, 2010)

While President Obama was not my choice, he is the President. I respect the office even if the person I did not vote for occupies it. I am sure he like every President before him, once they took that oath of office and got flooded with all the information that is for "his eyes only" he thought... whoah..... too much information. Can you imagine what it would be like to have millions of people judging every action of you and your family, even remote cousins you forgot about.  Not to mention knowing how your actions could and will impact millions of people around the globe. It takes a special kind of person to survive that for 4, much less 8 years. Just be thankful we live in a country where we can express our concerns and have the opportunity to make a change via the voting booth.


----------



## JTM (Jan 11, 2010)

Smokey613 said:


> respect the office


 
i'm starting to like this sentiment less and less.


----------



## z28_1969 (Jan 16, 2010)

amen smokey.


----------



## JTM (Jan 16, 2010)

drapetomaniac said:


> Yeah - my kids know better better than to use the ol' "they did it too"  routine. :17:
> 
> Yeah, everyone does it.  Now, cut it out and use our tools.:6:


 
yes, but to blame one side without blaming the other is foolish.  both are to blame.  that's why my mother sat me and my sister down to stare at each other for hours in the hall.


----------

