# Candles or Bulbs



## Blake Bowden

What is your preference? I prefer candles.


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## dhouseholder

I prefer candles but, man, after about a year, everything around them would be burnt and waxed up. Could you imagine if they fell on the Bible?

Those flickering bulbs really are sufficient. Just as long as they aren't those S&C bulbs. I think they look gaudy. (Just my opinion)


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## HKTidwell

I have never seen candles in use but think that it would actually be a better look then bulbs.


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## TCShelton

HKTidwell said:


> I have never seen candles in use but think that it would actually be a better look then bulbs.



+1.


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## owls84

I have always had an idea to do with the Burnt out bulbs (ones with S&C). I thought how great it would be to make a wood base with a lamp rod and socket that you could pick up from Home Depot and present it to one of the oldest members or pehaps the oldest living member of your Lodge. Call it something I don't know but we had one burn out at Lake Worth and we are looking at doing this. That way you are giving someone something symbolic for very little investment. 

Never been done yet but I have spoke to a few people about it. Who knows if it ever will.


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## cambridgemason

in massachusetts we use two sets of lights. the first set is at the top three stations and then we have candlestick holders that are used at the altar for the degrees.  the station lights are turned on during the opening and turned off at the closing. both sets form a triangle.


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## Wingnut

I think its up to local fire code.  For our outdoor degree we used citronella candles


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## Chaplin the Elder

HKTidwell said:


> I have never seen candles in use but think that it would actually be a better look then bulbs.




One lodge that I belonged to used candles, but they were the butane type and were really nice.  Because they were separate they could be placed in the proper positions at the alter.

Montgomery uses bulbs and they are nice but I don't feel they give quite the same feeling when being "brought to light" as the candles do.


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## scottmh59

being that the bulbs at my lodge have been broke ,we have to do something.candles would be nice


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## rhitland

I love those bulbs with the S&C but would love to have real fire in Lodge also.


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## Sirius

The candle is more symbolic than a light bulb. Since Masonry deal in symbolism, I would say the candle. But yes the S&C light bulbs are cool.


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## Bigmel

S&C light bulbs


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## kcir

I like candles as it is a nice touch to opening and closing the lodge.  In some lodges, the candles ar extinguished by the wardens and WM as part of the ritual in closing the lodge.


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## Raven

I have seen both flicker and S&C bulbs, but have never seen actual candles.
I personally would like to see the spring loaded dripless candles used when degrees are conferred. This type of candle is cost effective, very clean and comes in several sizes.


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## Christopher

I would love to see my Lodge use candles.  We have the flicker bulbs, and they're okay, but they're not the same.  Still, I suspect the AHJs would flip out if they thought we were burning candles in Lodge.  No point in getting fined, I guess.


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## Hippie19950

I went to Lodge in Franklin one night, and we lost power just before we started. The entire meeting was done by candle light. It was so neat. I would love to see a night when we all were able to have a meeting done by candle light only. We use the S%C bulbs, and need to replace one. The filament has separated, and looks like a butterfly inside.


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## PeterLT

I've seen both used and as mentioned above, I'm a fan of the S&C bulbs. Very nice touch to the lesser lights. Candles are too finicky, someone walks past and creates a current and poof, there goes the sun!

Peter


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## Bookend

Personally, I would prefer candles.   However, in our Constitution (South Australia) and in many others within this country, we have had to come to use electricity, simply for the purposes of insurance.   If we were to use candles, our insurance premiums would increase by as much as 600%!


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## tom268

In Germany, all lodges use candles. Three on the altar and one on each column. In higher degrees the number of candles grow and oil lamps add to the candles in some degrees. The highest number is our VIIIÂ° festive work with about 100 candles. I never saw candles waxing the bible, but from time to time they are waxing the floor. I even bumped into a column myself and hit down the candle. But a lightbulb can burn through too during the ritual. The risk is a bit higher, that's for sure, but in our ritual the light is carried by the WM and the wardens from the altar to the columns, and they spread light in the truest sense of the word.
We do have electric light for non-ritual lighting, so older brothers can find their seats and the ardens can read their ritual (it is read here, not memorized).


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## JTM

that could get a wee bit time consuming.  we sometimes have 4 degrees a month, and as junior deacon, i have the feeling i'd get to do some of that.

definitely bulbs. or get the ones that flicker and look like candles.

the filaments in our bulbs are little square and compasses.


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## tom268

what is so time consuming in lighting 3 candles?


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## JTM

i was referring to the 100 candles.


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## tom268

Oh that! *lol* well, it is a special festive lodge, done only once a year in the VIIIÂ°. One of the chivalric degrees.


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## Payne

I like the idea of candle but I don't think they would work in lodge due to the risk.


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## tom268

They worked pretty well in the centuries before gas- or electric light. And the masons back then were not known for burning up their lodge buildings. It it raises the insurance fees and a lodge wants to avoid it, that is an argument, but not that candles don't work. Masons used and still use candles longer than electric lights and outside the US, candles are still pretty common in lodges.


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## hbrown19

Went to a lodge in Guadalajara, Mexico and they had candles, BIG CANDLES!  and it was awesome.  Wish I could post a picture, I'd show you.


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## TexMass

I like the candles but up in MA where many of the lodges are very old, they kind of frown on them.


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## bullrack33

dhouseholder said:


> I prefer candles but, man, after about a year, everything around them would be burnt and waxed up.



Instead of regular candles, you could use the wax-less ones..... ;-)


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## Huw

Here in UGLE, we have no fixed rule on this.  Some of our buildings are equipped with electric bulbs, others are equipped with candles, both are common.  I've not seen the S&C lamps referred to in this thread, I don't think we have those over here, but we do sometimes use the slightly flickery imitation-candle bulbs.  Where we use actual candles, some places have traditional wax candles, but other places (such as UGLE HQ) have oil-filled (and re-fillable) waxless candles to avoid creating a mess.  (Incidentally the positioning of ours is different from yours, we have them at the edges of the room beside the WM and the Ws, so the hypothetical risk of damaging the VSL doesn't apply here.)

The main symbolic point, of course, is that it is a light, and the technology used to produce the light is a secondary issue.  Nevertheless, I much prefer candles, which I find maintain a more effectively authentic flavour in the proceedings.

T & F,

Huw


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## Dave in Waco

I've seen light bulbs, the S&C bulbs, and candles.  To me, the candles add to the atmosphere, especially in degrees.  I now there is an old Lodge in Praire Hill that still has an old style 2 story wood building with a community room downstairs and Lodge Room upstairs and they still use candles.  Plus in my Lodge, one of our S&C bulbs is a bit flaky.  It's kind of the unwritten duty of the JW to tap it to make it come back on during degrees.


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## tom268

WM:" What is the duty of the junior warden?"
JW:" To tap the lightbulb, so that the lodge is duely illuminated and every brother can see" 

*lol* I like that!


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## shadowwalker

I think the candles would be nice, although I have never seen them in use.  Like several others here, I would be worried about them being knocked over.  Some of our Brothers don't walk to steady anymore.


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## mark!

I've never seen candles in use, but I imagine it would give a better effect, pretty cool in my opinion.  But, as also mentioned, some of our elderly brothers don't walk to straight and strong any more, would be an issue if one was knocked over.


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## Colt.barker

I thought everyone used candles I've never seen bulbs used


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## Bro.BruceBenjamin

Candles.


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## Bro. Keye

the lodge I was raised in, Billie Mosse 1552, Denison Texas had the S&C bulbs and I thought that to be cool. Distinctive and related to the craft.  Other lodges I have been to use tapered bulbs and candles both.  They use candles on degree work and bulbs on business nights or alternate events.  The candles are messier and do present fire hazard.  I like the S&C bulbs.


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## JohnnyFlotsam

A fire hazard, to be sure, and there are probably fire codes in many places that prohibit the burning of candles in occupancies of a certain density, without sprinklers, etc. But I keep wondering, what about churches, and restaurants? I've seen one priest, one altar boy, and one 20' high tapestry ignited in separate incidents, and yet there appears to be no rule (or enforcement) aimed at these establishements. Why is that?


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## Pillar

That's interesting I always had candles present. I'm bro. E Tyson Houston, Tx


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## Jamesb

candles are neat but we have a very old building...open flames are not encouraged!


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## Frater Cliff Porter

My lodge uses only candles and our meetings have 6 tall tapers in the East, four in the West and two in the South.  We then have two large candelabras in the East.  The charter is lighted by three candles.  The secretary and treasurer likewise have candles at their stations, and the G in the East between two large pillars is softly lighted with dimmed stage lighting.

Fire has vibration and power that is not found in the bulb.  The act of lighting them and attending the altar is a solemn and beautiful act when done correctly.  We use an acolytes wand to light the three lesser and the flame is ignited in the East and carried to the three lesser lights.

The flame is that thing by which changes in operative alchemy occur.  Heat is required for transmutation.  We also find water present in the first penalty, air in the second, and fire in the third.  The earth is found in the chalk, charcoal and clay.

Lodge is not social hour, its not minutes, its not charity.  Its hard labor in speculative transformation of a man's soul.  It carves the foundation of his material existence so that he can stand transformed before the Great White Throne.  Candles were not an accident.

The idea that we can not trust grown men with three burning candles or a glass of beer or wine, men whom are supposed to be thoroughly vetted and the best men of the community is a disgustingly foolish idea.


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## JohnnyFlotsam

Frater Cliff Porter said:


> Fire has vibration and power that is not found in the bulb.  The act of lighting them and attending the altar is a solemn and beautiful act when done correctly.  We use an acolytes wand to light the three lesser and the flame is ignited in the East and carried to the three lesser lights.
> 
> The flame is that thing by which changes in operative alchemy occur.  Heat is required for transmutation.  We also find water present in the first penalty, air in the second, and fire in the third.  The earth is found in the chalk, charcoal and clay.
> 
> *Lodge is not social hour, its not minutes, its not charity.  *Its hard labor in speculative transformation of a man's soul.  It carves the foundation of his material existence so that he can stand transformed before the Great White Throne.  Candles were not an accident.


It is genuinely refreshing to see such eloquence and clarity about what our "work" really is, Brother Porter. Thank you for that. :14:


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## Timothy Fleischer

Brothers,

My Lodge uses the S&C bulbs.

I have attended one lodge that uses candles: University Lodge in Austin, Texas in an historic old building there. I was very impressed with the "lighting of the candles" at the opening of the lodge. Much better than tapping the bulb to make sure it turns on all the way.


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## tom268

mark! said:


> But, as also mentioned, some of our elderly brothers don't walk to straight and strong any more, would be an issue if one was knocked over.


 Well, I don't know, how lights are used in your ritual. In the ritual I know, candles are lit, after all brothers sat down, or are in positions where no brothers walk. At least in craft lodge.

I never saw anyone going up in flames and never heard about such an event in the history. I knocked over candles myself, but it only causes wax stain on the carpet. Candle flames are only dangerous when left alone. ... Unless you meet in a gas factory.

Candles in the temple should not be atmospheric decoration, but they are part of the ritual. They are used in fixed positions, and all of these positions are focus points of the attention. To run into them unintentionally is highly unlikely. Or how often are your lightbulbs ran down and splitter on the floor?

The ritual is usually a very well controled time, no running around, no groups standing around and talking, so the danger for the candles should be minimum. The costs for necessary insurances can be the only argument I see here. We in Germany need a fire insurance with or without candles, so it is no argument here.


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## Frater Cliff Porter

I am not certain that a falling candle is any more dangerous than hot exploding glass.

That being said, we have knocked over a candle and nothing happened.  It was out before it hit.  We cleaned up a little wax.  No big deal.

I would be curious to know if any lodge has ever actually burned down from a candle, just like a lodge sued for a Brother drinking at lodge and driving home.

Both, I believe, are Masonic myths.

We should drink and have candles. We are grown men and we can make good choices.  If you can't handle a tiny candle or a class of wine, bet the heck out of Masonry please.


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## Benton

I don't know about lodges, but I do know about a local Catholic Church that burned down a few years ago when some of the prayer candles that were lit were knocked down.  

Of course, that's the only case I've ever heard of any building burning down because of candles. I would love to seem them make a come back. Something about candle light is special.


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## jwardl

Candles = more impressive
Light bulbs = SAFER


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## Tony Siciliano

Three burning tapers.  



jwardl said:


> Light bulbs = SAFER



What are you guys doing that there would be a safety issue?  :blink:  lol.


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## tom268

I ask myself the same thing. A bunch of adult men, most of them sitting. We are not talking about a dancefloor here, aren't we?


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## Beathard

You mean you don't dance in German lodges?  Hmmm...  neither do we...


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## MikeMay

Tony Siciliano said:


> Three burning tapers.
> 
> 
> 
> What are you guys doing that there would be a safety issue?  :blink:  lol.



No kidding....:confused1:


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## Michaelstedman81

I really would like to use the candles at times.  I haven't seen any candles used except for when I was going through the Scottish Rite, but I would really like to see how it looks in my local lodge.  I do however, really like the bulbs with the Square and Compasses...lol  In fact, I would like to have one or two to have at the house to just keep.  Anyone know where to get those and about how much they are?


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## tomasball

I would favor the candles you see in some churches: not wax, but a candle-shaped lamp filled with as sort of oil.  Burns like a candle, but no drips.


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## Brent Heilman

Michaelstedman81 said:


> I would like to have one or two to have at the house to just keep. Anyone know where to get those and about how much they are?



I saw these while browsing around for an apron case. http://www.lauterer.com/bulb-masonic.aspx 
I am sure there are other places to find them also.


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## Michaelstedman81

Brent Heilman said:


> I saw these while browsing around for an apron case. http://www.lauterer.com/bulb-masonic.aspx I am sure there are other places to find them also.




Thanks....lol I knew I should have looked there.  Do they screw into a normal light socket, though?


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## Brent Heilman

I believe they do use a standard socket.

Sent from my iPhone using Freemasonry


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## vanderson78102

I'd prefer real candles but we use the bulbs at our lodge and just about every lodge I've been to.


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## Brent Heilman

I asked at my lodge to see why we don't use candles and I was told it had to do with fire regulations. It would be something I want to see at some point. For now I will just say I like the bulbs.

Sent from my iPhone using Freemasonry


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## Ashlar

Bulbs . Yes we are full grown men and should be trusted to use candles but we can not skirt the law , and local fire codes forbid us in using candles/open flames UNLESS we have a sprinkler system in my town/county . There is no way around it .


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## Jacob Johnson

I'd really like to see a degree with candles sometime. I always thought the refillable oil candles would be a great idea. I'm not too big a fan of the S&C lightbulbs.


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## jw21

*Light*

Oil lamps last alot longer and can be reused.


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## jw21

Candles are sufficient, depending on time and your surroundings. Oil lamps are the best option...they last for hours, depending on the size and they can be reused.


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## Bro_Vick

While bulbs seem cheesy and what not, this isn't 1717.  Candles are messy, have to be constantly replaced, etc.  Also the fire hazard in some of these old lodges would be too great.

I am such a wet blanket. 

S&F,
-Bro Vick


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## Cigarzan

Agree with Bro. Vick.  Plus, our fans whould play heck with live flames.  I like the S&C bulbs.  They were at my degrees so I know they're the way to go!  



Bro_Vick said:


> While bulbs seem cheesy and what not, this isn't 1717.  Candles are messy, have to be constantly replaced, etc.  Also the fire hazard in some of these old lodges would be too great.
> 
> I am such a wet blanket.
> 
> S&F,
> -Bro Vick


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## dreamer

I am in Lodges where we use bulbs and Lodges where we use candles. For me, candles are the way to go.


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## dfreybur

We're an order with tradition.  No newfangled LED lights.  Use those bulbs the way it's been done as far back as anyone can remember!  Chuckle.

Candles are very nice and give an aura to a degree, but they are a fire hazard.  Most jurisdictions now have the lesser lights on a single pedestal yet century old pictures show each light on its own pedestal.  I take it someone tripped, knocked down a candle and lit some building on fire once decades ago to trigger the switch.


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## Brother JC

The two lodgerooms I've been to here have used electric candles. They're better than the bulbs, but still aren't really "three tapers."


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## Browncoat

My lodge uses bulbs, and they're cheesy...but fire code prohibits using real candles.


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## bezobrazan

Brent Heilman said:


> I asked at my lodge to see why we don't use candles and I was told it had to do with fire regulations. It would be something I want to see at some point. For now I will just say I like the bulbs.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Freemasonry



Why do fire regulations apply to lodges but not churches?  They even let children walk with candles over runners. 


A true man learns to soften his heart and stiffen his spine.


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## brother josh

Candles keep original tradition going 


My Freemasonry


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## Warrior1256

Light bulbs simply for safety and cleanliness.


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## Pete Ramboldt

We use candles. They are 1.5" in diameter and about 18" long - made of bees wax. they burn clean and don't drip.


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## Levelhead

We use light bulbs with the filament shaped like a s/c inside. Pretty cool looking.

I prefer candles tho.


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