# The word Mason; Is it universal?



## casanova (Oct 3, 2010)

Now, I know friends who would prefer a African-American Man who is a Mason a Black Mason. Why is that? Whereas by the end of the day he is a Man of God and a Mason.


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## Traveling Man (Oct 3, 2010)

Could it possibly be because the self described individual named himself so? Where I've traveled throughout the world they call themselves and are called masons. Just a thought...


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## rhitland (Oct 3, 2010)

I would think being black in our society adds its sweetness to being a mason.  Kinda like I like to be called a Texas Mason, because I want to honor all those worthy brothers of the past who busted their butts to carve out such a mark on society as Texas Masons have made.  Not in any way to imply that a Yankee Mason  is of any less value than I.  Now we all now how far the black society and society as a whole has come in our country since its inception and I would think a black man would want to honor all those before him who had cleared the way for him to enjoy the craft as freely as he does today.  This is the opinion of a whitey though!


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## ChrisB (Oct 3, 2010)

I'm a prince hall mason. And I don't wanna be recognized as no black mason. I just wanna be recognized as a mason. And yes it true, we do like to honor those that paved the way before us. But prince hall himself don't know that most black lodges are called prince hall. He died thinking that the masonry he was teaching was the same in any lodge black or white. To him his lodge was known as African lodge # 459 back in 1784 the oldest charter I believe to be in the united states.


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## casanova (Oct 3, 2010)

ChrisB said:


> I'm a prince hall mason. And I don't wanna be recognized as no black mason. I just wanna be recognized as a mason. And yes it true, we do like to honor those that paved the way before us. But prince hall himself don't know that most black lodges are called prince hall. He died thinking that the masonry he was teaching was the same in any lodge black or white. To him his lodge was known as African lodge # 459 back in 1784 the oldest charter I believe to be in the united states.



Is that why theres a major conflict between PHA Order and other Masonic orders?


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## casanova (Oct 3, 2010)

Most my friends are "Whiteys" and so they would call a African-American who is a Mason a Black Mason. I was so confused when I first heard that and didnt say anything sense I'm not a Mason.


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## rhitland (Oct 3, 2010)

casanova said:


> Is that why theres a major conflict between PHA Order and other Masonic orders?



No, ignorance caused this conflict and education is fixing it.


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## MacFie (Oct 3, 2010)

I wouldn't want to be known as anything other than a Mason myself.  First lodge was St John's Lodge, which was chartered in 1733 by the Grand Lodge of England.


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## rhitland (Oct 3, 2010)

I think he is referring to the oldest original charter.  Most original charters where lost predominantly through fire or other manner but the PHA charter is the oldest original in America if memory serves me right.  I will have to go find some cites on this because I just vaguely remember reading it.


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## ChrisB (Oct 4, 2010)

No the problem is a black and white thing, not the charter. You see G Washington was your first president of the united state, he was also a master mason and a slave owner. Upon his death bed he ask that all his slaves be freed when his wife died. He wanted this because he knew that as a man and a mason that slavery was wrong. But after g Washington died, his wife freed the slaves the same day. I don't know if she did that to for fill what g wanted or because she feared for her life, scared that a slave might kill her for their freedom. Or just maybe she felt slavery was wrong also. Black people are good enough to clean you house, cook and watch your kid, sing and dance for some white people, But not good enough to sit in a Masonic lodge together. I myself will never visit a lodge in texas. And I hope to never meet any of those racist texas so called  slave master mason here in new york or in my life. Bastards!

_*This post earned this user an infraction. - JTM*_


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## owls84 (Oct 4, 2010)

ChrisB I understand that this is something that you hold dear to your heart but to assume that ALL Lodges in Texas are racist is incredibly unfair. Our history in Texas is one of very stubborn people. Just look at our great battles with Mexico like the Battle of Gonzales and the Alamo. Masonry, even in the North, does not change overnight but takes years. My lodge currently has 3 black members and we have several more looking to petition. One of which is an officer and will soon be Master if all goes well and he chooses to do so. 

As far as George Washington you are speaking of a totally different time when the mentality was one that had Blacks that were seen as less than a white man in the South as well as the North. Was it right with today's statdards? NO. But at that time it was socially acceptable in the North or the South. Just as the labor standards of the time deemed unacceptable by today's standards. It was until decades later that it was socially unacceptable to own slaves in the North. This was because the need was not there with the industrialization era. You are comparing apples to oranges with this comparison of George Washington. 

We are taking steps to further seek open relationships but that comes with education not hatred. I for one find your statement of "Black people are good enough to clean you house, cook and watch your kid, sing and dance for some white people" to be counter productive to the cause and could be considered racist on its own. Not one person on this site once said anything like this and to ellude that people in Texas still has slaves is very offensive.


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## ShadyGrove821 (Oct 4, 2010)

There are members of PHA Lodges who are not African-American. Why would one refer to them as "Black Masons?"
Likewise, there are Masons of color in "mainstream" Lodges. Should we call them "White Masons?"
A Mason is a Mason.


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## owls84 (Oct 4, 2010)

Could not agree more Brother Bob. A Mason is a Mason. 

That being said why do people use the term "32nd Degree Scottish Rite Mason" as if he is a higher degree than I because he spent $150 and sat down for a day while a degree was performed. This is something I find degrading. If you are a Mason you should introduce yourself as such. 

This was not to make a Scottish Rite Mason mad but to educate that a Mason is a Mason. Nothing higher than a Master Mason, period.


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## Dave in Waco (Oct 4, 2010)

owls84 said:


> Could not agree more Brother Bob. A Mason is a Mason.
> 
> That being said why do people use the term "32nd Degree Scottish Rite Mason" as if he is a higher degree than I because he spent $150 and sat down for a day while a degree was performed. This is something I find degrading. If you are a Mason you should introduce yourself as such.
> 
> This was not to make a Scottish Rite Mason mad but to educate that a Mason is a Mason. Nothing higher than a Master Mason, period.



Exactly!  Personally, "32nd Degree Scottish Rite Mason" is for the most part redundant, since almost every SR Mason is at least a 32 degree these days, or at least they are in the US.  I do hear that across the pond, it's a bit different and the higher degrees in SR are more of an achievement.  

But everyone is a Master Mason first, SR second.


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## JEbeling (Oct 4, 2010)

I knew two Prince Hall Grand Masters... ! one worked for me for years and the other was a Sheriff in Columbus and neither had the attitude of ChrisB... ! They were both very gentle souls and were great masons ... ! would see nothing wrong with sitting in lodge with them.. ! Last year at Grand Lodge of Texas in Waco there were black masons walking around and one DDGM.. ! and nobody seem to notice they were black... ! just another mason... ! 

The problem with the Prince Hall Lodges is that there is not ONE Prince Hall Grand Lodge... ! and the lodges are at odds with each other... ! its the problem of dealing with other masons that we can not vouch for...? to admit to lodge.. ! The Prince Hall Grandmasers that I knew said that they would rather have their own lodge .. ! to be their own Worship Master.. ! and it had nothing to do with being black.. ! and they had more class to ever use any term like that.. ?


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## owls84 (Oct 4, 2010)

JEbeling said:


> The problem with the Prince Hall Lodges is that there is not ONE Prince Hall Grand Lodge... ! and the lodges are at odds with each other... ! its the problem of dealing with other masons that we can not vouch for...? to admit to lodge.. ! The Prince Hall Grandmasers that I knew said that they would rather have their own lodge .. ! to be their own Worship Master.. ! and it had nothing to do with being black.. ! and they had more class to ever use any term like that.. ?



I would agree with everything you said except this statement. We recognize The Most Worshipful Prince Hall Grand Lodge of Texas, F&AM just as we do any other jurisdiction. The issue was not with other Grand Lodges. To say that would imply there is but one Grand Lodge of Texas and as many post on this site have indicated there are many that exist. The major problem with PHGLoTX and GLoTX was the fact that they would have to decide territorial jurisdiction. The Grand Lodge of Texas states it controls all degrees in Texas and the same goes for Prince Hall Grand Lodge. In 2007 a compact was signed between the two Grand Lodges recognizing each other as "Regular" Masons and even stated that since 1875 we both have shared Territorial Jurisdiction. The only requirement is tha we did not allow visitation. This does not prevent ANY Mason to visit or support the other Grand Lodge during an open function. This only prevents you from entering a tiled meeting or hold "Masonic Communication". Which mearly means, at this time we can not discuss the esoteric or "secret" parts of Masonry. 

Times are changing though and now that The Most Worshipful Prince Hall Grand Lodge of Texas, F&AM has recognition from the UGLE and each year passes with other Grand Jurisdictions allowing "full" recognition there will be a lot of pressure for the GLoTX to open that communication back up and see if it's members will want visitation. We could point fingers back and forth but that gets us no where but with a bunch of cramped hands. Now is the time to educate that way when the oppurtunity does arise we can make sure we answer the call if it is agreed to be in the best intrest of both parties.


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## Dave in Waco (Oct 4, 2010)

JEbeling said:


> would see nothing wrong with sitting in lodge with them.. !



To add the legal warning for those that don't know, this is currently against GL Law.  But, it is a law that most all of us here hope to get changed to full recognition and visiting rights between both Grand Lodges.  So, I do echo Bro. Jack's sentiment.  

Afterall, it is the internal not the external qualifications.


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## JEbeling (Oct 4, 2010)

Well the problem is that what They want or is that what you want... ! everyone of the Prince Hall Masons That I talk to wants Recongnitation... ! but they don't want to become part of our Grand Lodge... !

PS: would they have to learn the 2nd and 3rd sections of the EA before we give them "Full Recongnition"... ? 
would we need to send the District Inquisitor's around to make sure they open and close lodge right...? 
would all their masters of their lodges need to complete the Life Program before we could let them in....? 
would they have to submit that form to the District Inquisitor's every year before installation... ? 
would we need to send the District Inquisitor's around to grade each one...?


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## Blake Bowden (Oct 4, 2010)

ChrisB said:
			
		

> Black people are good enough to clean you house, cook and watch your kid, sing and dance for some white people, But not good enough to sit in a Masonic lodge together. I myself will never visit a lodge in texas. And I hope to never meet any of those racist texas so called  slave master mason here in new york or in my life. Bastards!



Banned


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