# Pope says that Masonic Lobby worse of a Problem than Homosexuality



## Bro_Vick (Jul 29, 2013)

From the Popes recent statements in Brazil he said the following:

â€œThe problem is not having this orientation,â€ he said. â€œWe must be brothers. The problem is lobbying by this orientation, or lobbies of greedy people, political lobbies, Masonic lobbies, so many lobbies. This is the worse problem.â€

Do Masons outside of France do political lobbying?  Or is he directly talking to the GOdF which constantly puts out statements condemning him?

Thoughts?

S&F,
-Bro Vick


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## LittleHunter (Jul 29, 2013)

Whatever he said doesn't apply to American mainstream Freemasonry.


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## Bro_Vick (Jul 29, 2013)

And you know this how?  The Pope makes distinctions between regular and irregular Masonic practices?

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## stalban (Jul 29, 2013)

So this statement was in response to the "gay lobbies". I wonder if his comment on the Masons was somehow connected to those efforts or just a general statement. 


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## widows son (Jul 29, 2013)

I think he is referring to both English/American Freemasonry and The GOdF and its bodies. I'm sure the Church knows quite a bit about about the Craft including regularity and what not. It wouldn't surprise me at all if it had quite an extensive amount of of knowledge about Freemasonry, there have always been a vast number of scholars within the Church.


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## Bro_Vick (Jul 29, 2013)

widows son said:


> I think he is referring to both English/American Freemasonry and The GOdF and its bodies. I'm sure the Church knows quite a bit about about the Craft including regularity and what not. It wouldn't surprise me at all if it had quite an extensive amount of of knowledge about Freemasonry, there have always been a vast number of scholars within the Church.



I honestly don't think the church cares about what is regular or isn't, scholars or no scholars...


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## widows son (Jul 29, 2013)

"I honestly don't think the church cares about what is regular or isn't, scholars or no scholars..."

• I think it has to do with more with "knowing your enemy" than whether they care who's regular and not. Those scholars collected information regardless. But your probably right, in their eyes Freemasonry is still Freemasonry regardless of affiliation or deviation.


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## Brother_Steve (Jul 29, 2013)

widows son said:


> "I honestly don't think the church cares about what is regular or isn't, scholars or no scholars..."
> 
> • I think it has to do with more with "knowing your enemy" than whether they care who's regular and not. Those scholars collected information regardless. But your probably right, in their eyes Freemasonry is still Freemasonry regardless of affiliation or deviation.


I have read otherwise. I will dig up a link. It had to do with the church punishing a mason under the french lodge.

Nm: after rereading the source, it was not from the rcc


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## Blake Bowden (Jul 30, 2013)

*Pope Francis and the Catholic Church*

Pope Francis...

"If a person is gay and seeks God and has good will, who am I to judge him?

The problem is not having this orientation. We must be brothers. The problem is lobbying by this orientation, or lobbies of greedy people, political lobbies, Masonic lobbies, so many lobbies. This is the worst problem," he said.

Hold up. So if a person is gay and has good will, they get a free pass, but since I'm a Freemason I'm not extended the same courtesies? Francis, did you know that my Lodge handed me a Bible and encouraged me to read it? Did you know that my Lodge encouraged me to be active in my Church (Baptist)?


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## BryanMaloney (Jul 30, 2013)

*Re: Catholic church*

You did not actually listen but picked out what you wanted to pick apart:



Blake Bowden said:


> "If a person is gay and seeks God and has good will, who am I to judge him?
> 
> The problem is not having this orientation. We must be brothers. The problem is lobbying by this orientation, or lobbies of greedy people, political lobbies, Masonic lobbies, so many lobbies. This is the worst problem," he said.
> 
> Hold up. So if a person is gay and has good will, they get a free pass, but since I'm a Freemason I'm not extended the same courtesies? Francis, did you know that my Lodge handed me a Bible and encouraged me to read it? Did you know that my Lodge encouraged me to be active in my Church (Baptist)?



The problem is lobbying, not being. Does Freemasonry become an excuse to form a political pressure group? Do you go around and demand special laws be made for Freemasons? Go re-read the quote you post and actually read it.


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## BryanMaloney (Jul 30, 2013)

Bro_Vick said:


> And you know this how?  The Pope makes distinctions between regular and irregular Masonic practices?



How much lobbying does Freemasonry in the USA, the UK, etc. do? Do not let your hatred and paranoia blind you.


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## BryanMaloney (Jul 30, 2013)

Why isn't anyone yowling and puling that Francis hates all political processess and wants to ban all free elections and voting? After all, he also spoke against "political lobbies". Looks to me like the intolerant are accusing him of intolerance.


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## colbats (Jul 30, 2013)

*Re: Catholic church*

Ok quick question,  what about the Filipinos(Philippines)? Majority of the Filipino are Catholic,  and also a brother. I don't think the Catholic Churches in the Phillipines have problem with Masonry. Can someone shed a light on this? Thanks.

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## Zack (Jul 30, 2013)

I don't understand why we, as Freemasons, should be concerned about what the Pope says or thinks of our Fraternity.

We are not trying to win a popularity contest are we?


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## jmflores (Jul 30, 2013)

*Re: Catholic church*



Blake Bowden said:


> Pope Francis...
> 
> "If a person is gay and seeks God and has good will, who am I to judge him?
> 
> ...



That's too bad I really hoped he would be different.  All he's really saying is just repeating what the catechism says about gays, yet he chooses to omit that they must be in a chaste relationship according to the catechism.

I have a quick question, what kind of Bible does the lodges give?

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## Jericho2013 (Jul 30, 2013)

*Re: Catholic church*



jmflores said:


> That's too bad I really hoped he would be different.  All he's really saying is just repeating what the catechism says about gays, yet he chooses to omit that they must be in a chaste relationship according to the catechism.
> 
> I have a quick question, what kind of Bible does the lodges give?
> 
> Sent from my HTCEVOV4G using Freemasonry mobile app



My lodge gave me the King James version.


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## jmflores (Jul 30, 2013)

*Re: Catholic church*



Jericho2013 said:


> My lodge gave me the King James version.



That's great, I was just wondering if anybody ever had any preference for one version?


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## widows son (Jul 30, 2013)

"I don't understand why we, as Freemasons, should be concerned about what the Pope says or thinks of our Fraternity.

We are not trying to win a popularity contest are we?"

• I don't think that's the reason as to why Masons like myself care. To condemn an entire group because one group says "go discover God" while the other is saying "come through me to get to God."  There are many good Masons out there who are also Catholic, and keep their membership secret, purely because they are afraid of their church finding out. This is not ok. Like i said before, the church probably knows more about Freemasonry than most people think, and I believe it is aware of the esoteric nature we prop up. I think this is the main issue between Masonry and the Church.


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## otherstar (Jul 30, 2013)

BryanMaloney said:


> Why isn't anyone yowling and puling that Francis hates all political processess and wants to ban all free elections and voting? After all, he also spoke against "political lobbies". Looks to me like the intolerant are accusing him of intolerance.



Pope Francis appears to me to be opposed to all forums of political corruption more than he is opposed to free elections and voting. Could you provide a source where he says he is opposed to free elections and voting, because I cannot find such a source.


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## jmflores (Jul 30, 2013)

I'm not sure if the Church knows so much about Freemasonry, I have read a little about the way that they can learn more about Freemasonry is by engaging in discussion with Masons, similar to how they engage other religions through ecumenism. Supposedly that has been going on. 

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## JohnnyFlotsam (Jul 30, 2013)

otherstar said:


> Pope Francis appears to me to be opposed to all forums of political corruption more than he is opposed to free elections and voting. Could you provide a source where he says he is opposed to free elections and voting, because I cannot find such a source.


The RCC has a long history of meddling in secular affairs, including the governments of sovereign nations. While they are much less, let's call it "enthusiastic", in their approach today than in centuries past, they will still take everything that they can get in the area of political power and influence. As a staunch believer in the principal of an entirely secular system of law and government, I call that (a church meddling in government) corruption. Others call it Sharia, or Dominionism, so to be fair, it must be said that the RCC is hardly alone in this regard. Whatever it's name, it is unwelcome in a place where the authority of the government is held to flow from the consent of the governed. Freemasonry has a history of fostering the kind of thinking that recognizes and appreciates this "separation" of church and state. It is for that reason that the RCC has such a dim view of the Craft.


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## JohnnyFlotsam (Jul 30, 2013)

*Re: Catholic church*



BryanMaloney said:


> You did not actually listen but picked out what you wanted to pick apart:
> 
> 
> 
> The problem is lobbying, not being. Does Freemasonry become an excuse to form a political pressure group? Do you go around and demand special laws be made for Freemasons? Go re-read the quote you post and actually read it.


What "special laws" are the LGBT community lobbying for? Last I heard, they only wanted what everyone else is entitled to already.


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## JTM (Jul 30, 2013)

*Re: Catholic church*

If you see some posts "out of order" I think another thread was mistaken for this one.  I moved the posts into here.


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## dfreybur (Jul 30, 2013)

Zack said:


> I don't understand why we, as Freemasons, should be concerned about what the Pope says or thinks of our Fraternity.



I, as a Mason who is not Catholic, don't need to be concerned about it.  There are many of Catholic masons, though.  Such statements by the Pope put their values in conflict.  Self determination as a Masonic principle versus obedience to the hierarchy as a Catholic principle.



> We are not trying to win a popularity contest are we?



A prior generation of brothers wanted to apologize and ended up retreating from our principles in the process.  I have no interest in apologies.  If some organization objects to our principles that tells me much about the values of that organization.


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## Blake Bowden (Jul 30, 2013)

You need to research the history of the catholic church and freemasonry. Not exactly a warm relationship.

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## rhitland (Jul 30, 2013)

lobbying is a curious choice of words for the Pope to use even more curious though was his shout out to Masonry why in the heck did he feel the need to mention us?  The average age in my lodge is around 79 and they are not burning up the social scene.  Good Press or Bad Press it all the same now a days though!!!  I'll get my petitions ready.


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