# Morals and Dogma



## drapetomaniac (Feb 6, 2010)

Have you ever read Morals and Dogma or plan to?

I'm considering reading maybe a chapter a month or something similar.


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## Traveling Man (Feb 6, 2010)

Nice poll; where's the selection for "I have"?

Or is this one of those, "do you still beat your wife" questions?


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## drapetomaniac (Feb 6, 2010)

Ha!  I knew I forgot an option when I was filling it out - just added it.


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## TexMass (Feb 6, 2010)

I may not.  I have been told by active readers that it's a very difficult read on many levels.  I have trouble with it if it doesn't keep my interest all the way.


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## Wingnut (Feb 8, 2010)

believe it or not, Pike actually is easier to understand if you read it out loud.  There is also MOrales and Dogma for the 21st century written by 4 North Texas Masons that is just updating the language but not changing the meaning.


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## JTM (Feb 8, 2010)

if i read it like i did the bible, i read a few pages a day over several months.  

sat it by the john and took my time


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## drapetomaniac (Feb 8, 2010)

Wingnut said:


> believe it or not, Pike actually is easier to understand if you read it out loud.  There is also MOrales and Dogma for the 21st century written by 4 North Texas Masons that is just updating the language but not changing the meaning.


 
This one is also supposed to be synched so you can read it with the original page by page I believe.

I believe de Hoyos is working on something as well due out this year.


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## drapetomaniac (Feb 8, 2010)

TexMass said:


> I may not.  I have been told by active readers that it's a very difficult read on many levels.  I have trouble with it if it doesn't keep my interest all the way.


 
This is part of why I brought this up.  It seems to me this is one of those few items which every mason knows off the top of their head because they hear and repeat it so often.

To me, it strikes me as telling a student  "Don't try math it's hard."  You build up a lot of stress for someone before someone can even look at the page.  

If you can understand absolutely everything in an educational work, I'd suggest moving up a level until you're actually learning.

I've been tempted to put the text in a wikipedia format - which would allow hypertext links to certain terms and concepts...


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## Artificer (Feb 8, 2010)

I agree with others that it is much easier to understand if you read it out loud.  There is also no hard and fast rule that you start with the EA degree. I usually suggest that you start with a chapter for a degree that you found particularly compelling, or perhaps the degree you perform in, etc...  except for chapter 28 (Knight of the Sun - worked as 27th degree today).  That is another matter.  :001_smile:


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## Wingnut (Feb 8, 2010)

drapetomaniac said:


> This one is also supposed to be synched so you can read it with the original page by page I believe.
> 
> I believe de Hoyos is working on something as well due out this year.


 
Yes it does and has the same paragraph numbers for reference.  But I must say it is easier to read BUT its not dumbed down its still a higher level and rather difficult read.


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## Wingnut (Feb 8, 2010)

Speaking of Good Timing!  Brother Artificer is one of the tireless Brothers that wrote M&D for the 21st Century!!!


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## rhitland (Mar 14, 2010)

drapetomaniac said:


> I've been tempted to put the text in a wikipedia format - which would allow hypertext links to certain terms and concepts...


 
That would be quite the laborious task but I bet it would be used very often.  I for one us Morals and Dogmas as a reference book.  In the end I might end up reading it all but to sit down and read it cover to cover might spoil something for me since I am just a 3rd degree MM. lol


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## Jamesb (Mar 16, 2010)

There's an app for that!


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## Frater Cliff Porter (Mar 16, 2010)

I have read M/D three times through.  Once just without notes, etc...then I marked stuff up and used a bunch of post its and studied some stuff on the second read.  Took me a year.  Then I did a third read through having studied, took me a few days.

I LOVE this book.  Difficult schmifficult I say.  It is great, simply one of the most dynamic compilations and interpretations I have ever had the pleasure to read.  It is a philosophical, political, and social all at once, yet separately tackling each issue.  Loved it, loved, loved it.


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## Payne (Mar 17, 2010)

I have a PDF copy of it I have yet to read but I plan on reading it.


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## Smokey613 (Mar 19, 2010)

Do you have that somewhere we can download? If not, I can provide a place for you to upload it.


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## dhouseholder (Mar 22, 2010)

Smokey613 said:


> Do you have that somewhere we can download? If not, I can provide a place for you to upload it.



http://www.archive.org/details/moralsdogmaofanc00pikeiala
Look in the box on the left.

I read it all the way through the MM, I didn't want to spoil any future light. I plan on reading it again soon. I"m not a huge fan of all of the political meandering, but hey, its an interesting read.


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## AhimanBeard (Oct 9, 2010)

I'm not going to lie, and maybe this is just my take, but I feel to those who are only in the blue lodge (or maybe in the york rite), the first three degrees (The ones an average mason should be familiar with) kinda hits you square in the face. On reflection, they initially made the least amount of sense and probably should have made more (for me, someone not yet S.R.). 

I will say that it's just the way of impenetrable victorian prose. 
For those looking to start again, go to the 4th degree chapter and just read it like a piece of comparative religion and philosophy and it'll become much more enjoyable and accessible.


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## Frater Cliff Porter (Oct 9, 2010)

Esoterika is a more mature Pike and is a great read on the first three degrees.


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## TJGore (Oct 17, 2010)

Smokey613 said:
			
		

> Do you have that somewhere we can download? If not, I can provide a place for you to upload it.



You can get the book through the gutenberg project. By default if you have an Apple iPad or iPhone the iBook application automatically links into the Gutenberg repository. 

If you don't have either of those you can go to www.gutenberg.org and search for the book. It's available in a couple of formats including a kindle, pub, html, plain text, and etc.


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## MacFie (Oct 17, 2010)

Never even heard of it until this post.  Then some gal at work donated a few of her dads old books and there's this ancient red book with Morals and Dogma on it.  Might try and snatch it before we donate it to the lodge.


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## jwhoff (Oct 17, 2010)

I have read both Morals and Dogma and the newer publication by the brothers out of north Texas.  I got so interested in that one I chased the setting sun all around the yard each evening during the two-week aftermath of Hurricane Ike.  Once you've gotten into Pike you can move along well enough.  For the most part, his work is well worth the effort.  However, I do admit there were a few chapters that were more work than worth.  His work was momumental at the least.


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## bjdeverell (Oct 18, 2010)

Yeah, the thing about Pike is his flow. Once you're used to his sentence structure and delivery you should be good to go. Especially if you're well versed in ancient religions and history. It's the same as any of the works of Manly P. Hall. They both use extremely out of date terminology that will throw you off until you get used to it. Prime example, they both call Muslims, Mohammedens. Not really a big deal, just not used today. Other than that they were two of the greatest minds we've ever had.


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## TCShelton (Oct 18, 2010)

Yep.  One of my bathroom books.


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## peace out (Oct 18, 2010)

Now one of my iphone books.


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## Frater Cliff Porter (Nov 26, 2010)

Morals and Dogma is one of the best put together encyclopedic studies of comparative religion with social and political commentary that has ever been constructed.

The annotated version will be out shortly so we can actually see some of the sources for the first time, which were painstakingly translated by Pike before Babel Fish made it everyone's game, some of which included "dead" languages and archaic text of the Druze.  

I do not think you can have a true understanding of the Scottish Rite if you don't read this book.  If it is hard.  Good.  Masonry is labor, why do we want Masonry to be easy?  Go for it.  It will be hardwork and you will be better for it.


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## rhitland (Nov 27, 2010)

I am starting it tonight, thanks for the inspiration Cliff.


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## Frater Cliff Porter (Nov 28, 2010)

Enjoy Brother.  I have made a huge study of this tome...so PM me if you run up against something...I may have run up against the same thing and sourced it, etc.


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## cemab4y (Feb 20, 2011)

There have been some posts about the new "translation". Please see http://www.morals-and-dogma.com The text has been updated, into 21st century English. I also recommend "Commentaries on Morals and Dogma" by Henry Claussen. It is a "cliff's notes" version, and an excellent introduction into the text.


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## jwhoff (Feb 20, 2011)

Frater Cliff Porter said:


> The annotated version will be out shortly so we can actually see some of the sources for the first time, which were painstakingly translated by Pike before Babel Fish made it everyone's game, some of which included "dead" languages and archaic text of the Druze.


 
Please keep us posted on this version.  I've studies many of the resources of Morals and Dogma, but not all.  

I do find this the most interesting of all the aspects of Brother Pike's work.  Considering all his adventures in life, including the years in the Indian territories, where did he get all the time to prowl the best libraries.  He quotes from many many ancient and later works.

Oh but to get a grant to live among the volumes at the Library of Congress.  With spell check and a scanner to boot!


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## Jacob Johnson (Jul 21, 2011)

I answered the poll with "I have not", and "I hope to someday", thought to be more accurate I'd have answered "It's a part of my summer reading list". I'm at an idle on the MM degree chapter right now, so I can finish another, shorter book which is more specific to my interests (Harmonies of Heaven and Earth: Mysticism in Music from Antiquity to the Avant-Garde). That one should only take a few more days, so I plan on really hitting M&D hard this weekend, after the Reunion on Saturday. 

It's not hard reading, really. It is all about understanding the rhythm and syntax that Pike uses. That should take about a chapter to get used to, if you're used to reading college texts. Also, I will agree that these LECTURES (don't forget that that's what they are) are intended to be heard aloud, and reading a bit aloud may help you "get" Pike's style. Although, that method is super slow, and once you've got the flow of the book, you can abandon it.

That said, I started reading it with a PDF. What a horrible reading experience! Dunno about you brothers, but I can't read 800 pages from a computer screen or a cell phone. Anything over a page is just painful. The good news is that a 1963 copy in good condition was only like 10 bucks, with maybe 3 bucks shipping.


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## Mac (Jul 21, 2011)

I'm with the brother who posted above. Buy a cheap copy off Ebay. 

I read through all of it as part of the Master Craftsman program. It's not required, but I found it to make the endeavor much more enriching. As you read the Ritual Monitor and Guide for each degree, I recommend reading the associated chapter in Morals and Dogma.


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## Benton (Jul 21, 2011)

> That said, I started reading it with a PDF. What a horrible reading experience! Dunno about you brothers, but I can't read 800 pages from a computer screen or a cell phone. Anything over a page is just painful. The good news is that a 1963 copy in good condition was only like 10 bucks, with maybe 3 bucks shipping.



I'm the same way. There's been a couple of times when people link long Masonic documents on these forums where, as soon as I open them, I either close them, or immediately get up and take a break, because I find it a real strain reading long documents digitally. For short spurts that I can skim, digital is great, but if I'm going to have to spend awhile looking at it (something like M&D) I'd rather read from paper. 

That said, I haven't read M&D. Waiting until I go through the SR degrees, so it'll be more immediately relevant and hopefully make more sense.


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## Jacob Johnson (Jul 22, 2011)

Mac said:


> I read through all of it as part of the Master Craftsman program. It's not required, but I found it to make the endeavor much more enriching. As you read the Ritual Monitor and Guide for each degree, I recommend reading the associated chapter in Morals and Dogma.



I didn't have my copy of M&D til I'd finished MCI, but I'm doing exactly that with MCII.


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## jwhoff (Jul 24, 2011)

Mac said:


> I'm with the brother who posted above. Buy a cheap copy off Ebay.
> 
> I read through all of it as part of the Master Craftsman program. It's not required, but I found it to make the endeavor much more enriching. As you read the Ritual Monitor and Guide for each degree, I recommend reading the associated chapter in Morals and Dogma.



Totally agree with that statement.  I also read _*Magnum Opus or the Great Work*_ and the _*Franchen Manuscript 1783*_ to get a broader picture of the degree.  Careful though, they aren't always the same degrees.


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