# Investigation question



## SeattleMason0613 (Nov 4, 2013)

I wasn't on the investigative committee but I was present and asked the petitioner this question...

If you were master of your lodge and your lodge was failing and most likely wouldn't be around next year due to lack of membership.
Three young petitioners come in and you first get a very bad vibe from them and after getting to know then you know deep down they would not make good brothers.
Would you for the sake of saving your lodge allow these brothers to be elected to receive the degrees of masonry or would you deny them and this ending your lodge? 

I want to know what you would do and why? 


My Freemasonry


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## Plustax (Nov 4, 2013)

Too many hypotheticals. Not realistic to present to a petitioner who probably doesn't even know about Worshipful Master much less about Freemasonry.  It's like asking if 2 soldiers were injured laying on the ground & one was a close friend, only one could be saved.... who would you save?  I just don't believe it's a fair question to ask someone who know very little about masonry.  Question... you being a mason with knowledge, how would you answer it and why?


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## JJones (Nov 4, 2013)

Given the scenario? No, I'd keep them out.

My reasoning is that there's no guarantee that they'll stick around and stay active enough to keep the lodge open anyhow.  Not only that but I've found that negative people are very poisonous to a lodge so even if they -did- stick around they'd probably do more harm than good and discourage men who are actually good from joining.

IMO letting unfit people join for the sake of numbers has caused enough problems for Freemasonry.


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## BroBook (Nov 4, 2013)

SeattleMason0613 said:


> I wasn't on the investigative committee but I was present and asked the petitioner this question...
> 
> If you were master of your lodge and your lodge was failing and most likely wouldn't be around next year due to lack of membership.
> Three young petitioners come in and you first get a very bad vibe from them and after getting to know then you know deep down they would not make good brothers.
> ...



What may I ask was his reply?


My Freemasonry


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## SeattleMason0613 (Nov 4, 2013)

It's a very fair question you don't need to know anything about freemasonry to really answer this question. It's simple do you save the lodge by initiating unfit people or do you let it die and not. I would let the lodge die. I don't feel that any one lodge is worth poisoning the good of masonry. It shows what the person cares most about if they can't answer it right off the bat. 


My Freemasonry


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## SeattleMason0613 (Nov 4, 2013)

It's a human moral intuition question...used in psychology and I would do nothing I can't choose between two human beings. 


My Freemasonry


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## Zack (Nov 4, 2013)

JJones said:


> Given the scenario? No, I'd keep them out.
> 
> My reasoning is that there's no guarantee that they'll stick around and stay active enough to keep the lodge open anyhow.  Not only that but I've found that negative people are very poisonous to a lodge so even if they -did- stick around they'd probably do more harm than good and discourage men who are actually good from joining.
> 
> ...



Thank you Brother JJones.


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## rpbrown (Nov 5, 2013)

I agree with Brother Jones on this.
1) who is to sat that they would make a good Mason? Gut feelings usually are correct.
2) What if they dont stick around to help the lodge
3) and I feel this is the most important, what if they do stick around and join other lodges to spread their agenda/poison throughout Masonry.

Keep them out rather than taking that chance.


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## SeattleMason0613 (Nov 5, 2013)

His reply was to not allow them in lodge. However it took quite along time for him to answer this he beat around the bush asked allot of if and or questions, tried to make other suggestions. But after I reminded him that it is a simple question in or out?...he replied with not allowing them to be initiated and thus ending the lodge 


My Freemasonry


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## BryanMaloney (Nov 5, 2013)

Were I asked that, I would have had to have answered honestly: "It would be extremely arrogant and presumptuous of me to make such judgments when I do not know if I am even to be initiated."


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## SeattleMason0613 (Nov 5, 2013)

Purely hypothetical 


My Freemasonry


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## Plustax (Nov 5, 2013)

That's why I made my comment about it not really being a fair question at that point in time. Here is a person that's brand new, ony knows what he's read about Masons or has been told about this "group" of men. He's interested enough that he'd like to learn more by requesting to join this fraternity, has no idea about "bad apples" or "poisoning" or anything of the sort and yet, during his very first visit by these 3 gents ( or 1 or maybe even 5), he's asked "what would you do if you were in charge" of letting masonry die honoranly or live on with a 50/50 chance that people coming in MIGHT be bad for masonry. Personally, I think that's a lot to lay on a person that knows very little on the inner workings, architecture, history or retention issues (if any) that may be taking place. It could really get to him.... "did I give the correct answer, am I going to be accepted based on what I know up to this point"? Many petitioners are very nervous (including wives) when being visited the very first time (no matter how much we try to relax them).


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## SeattleMason0613 (Nov 5, 2013)

Agree to disagree 


My Freemasonry


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## BryanMaloney (Nov 5, 2013)

SeattleMason0613 said:


> Purely hypothetical



Irrelevant. Humility includes admitting when one simply is not sufficiently experienced to even answer "purely hypothetical" questions. Arrogance includes refusing to admit such things.


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## SeattleMason0613 (Nov 5, 2013)

Agree to disagree 


My Freemasonry


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## BryanMaloney (Nov 5, 2013)

SeattleMason0613 said:


> Agree to disagree



That's cute, but it doesn't actually address the issue. Instead, it is a retreat into blind dogmatism.


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## SeattleMason0613 (Nov 5, 2013)

What questions do you ask?


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## SeattleMason0613 (Nov 5, 2013)

That is kind of insulting towards me to be honest with you...I believe I'm in no wrong in asking a hypothetical question which I insured to the candidate it was. If you think I'm wrong in doing so...so be it? I value your opinion and see exactly were your coming from I just don't agree 100%


My Freemasonry


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## crono782 (Nov 5, 2013)

You're right, there's no lasting harm in the question. Personally, however, I think the question was unfair to ask a new candidate who knows nothing about our troubles within. To ask them to enter with a clear mind, but then burden them with worries about the craft seems counterproductive. But to each IC their own.


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## SeattleMason0613 (Nov 5, 2013)

I was not on the investigation committee simply asked to step in and ask a question and that's what I asked. No one in my lodge who heard it had no objections. 


My Freemasonry


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## crono782 (Nov 5, 2013)

I got ya. These are just our opinions (and we're certainly an opinionated bunch, hah). Like I said, it is a most thought provoking question to us, but I can't see the benefit of it to a candidate. Though again your IC may.


My Freemasonry


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## Plustax (Nov 5, 2013)

Not meant to insult you brother and if it was received that way, I apologize.  I just gave my opinion and that's all it is.. nothing more.. nothing less.  As I always say  "It's GREAT to be MASON".  



SeattleMason0613 said:


> I was not on the investigation committee simply asked to step in and ask a question and that's what I asked. No one in my lodge who heard it had no objections.
> 
> 
> My Freemasonry


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## SeattleMason0613 (Nov 5, 2013)

No harm done! And I was not referring to your post as insulting someone else's. I couldn't agree more it's a good thing we are all very well opinionated keeps us from being boring. However the more I think about it I could have worded it a little different or used another question similar in nature and not masonic related to figure out his moral outlook on the position but the question has already been asked so what's done is done! 

It is good to be a mason! 


My Freemasonry


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## dfreybur (Nov 5, 2013)

SeattleMason0613 said:


> What questions do you ask?



Why they decided to become a Mason.  If they understand the time requirements.  If the wife understands the time requirements and is on board.  A reiteration of the questions on the form with any explanations on what they mean in the very broadest sense.  Generally the sequence outlined in one of the booklets I've read about being an investigator.

I also call the recommenders and chat with them about the candidate.  Is he level headed and honest.  Has the candidate told the recommender there are no invitations to Masonry (some states allow non-Masons as character witnesses in addition to the member lines).


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## BroBook (Dec 20, 2013)

SeattleMason0613 said:


> It's a human moral intuition question...used in psychology and I would do nothing I can't choose between two human beings.
> 
> 
> My Freemasonry



So he would never make it cloudy , he is from wonderland!!!


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## caution22113 (Dec 21, 2013)

I was raised in June, and have not been on an IC yet. But I have been asked by several men "How do I become a Mason?" My reply is always, "Why do you want to be a Masom?"

I believe that is the most important question. Although it is a simple question, most cannot answer it.


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## dfreybur (Dec 23, 2013)

caution22113 said:


> I was raised in June, and have not been on an IC yet. But I have been asked by several men "How do I become a Mason?" My reply is always, "Why do you want to be a Masom?"
> 
> I believe that is the most important question. Although it is a simple question, most cannot answer it.



My answer is - You have to ask someone you believe to be a Mason who to become one.  In general there are no invitations.  You just took the first step.  I can go get you a petition for membership if you like.  Want to download one on line and print it out?


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## SeattleMason0613 (Dec 25, 2013)

I just feel every-time I hear that question asked I hear the same type of answers


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## Warrior1256 (Oct 4, 2014)

SeattleMason0613 said:


> It's a very fair question you don't need to know anything about freemasonry to really answer this question. It's simple do you save the lodge by initiating unfit people or do you let it die and not. I would let the lodge die. I don't feel that any one lodge is worth poisoning the good of masonry. It shows what the person cares most about if they can't answer it right off the bat.
> 
> 
> My Freemasonry


Agreed!


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