# Visiting With Prince Hall



## Blake Bowden (Jan 23, 2017)

Next month I would like to invite a Prince Hall Brother to attend Lodge with me. I've been told inter-visitation is accepted, until I saw the requirements. Really? Forms, approval, etc? It's more of visitation with heavy restrictions.

To the MW Grand Lodge of Texas and the MW Prince Hall Grand Lodge of Texas, drop the suffocating requirements. Seriously.


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## Benjamin Baxter (Jan 23, 2017)

I was confused by a few of the resolutions that were presented at the annual communication. They appeared to help inter-visitation, and the grand master and past grand masters kept getting up and stating that prince hall is regular and recognized. They didn't get into the details. I was wanting to get a new book of constituent lodges so I could look and see if any prince hall lodges are listed. We are not seeing any great stride towards inter-visitation in my area. The grand lodge needs to work harder to streamline it. If you make it too difficult, fewer will participate. 



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## Bro. David F. Hill (Jan 23, 2017)

The process seems long but it works. With this in place you can verify that the brother is what he says he is. Many times we meet a mason only to find out that he is inactive, suspended or actually a member of one of the many bogus lodges. This helps to verify that. Also, it gives the lodge a chance to say that the night may not be a good idea as something that is internal is being discussed. Remember that this is a one time process and after that the person can visit anytime they want. My wish is to see joint events and projects between the lodges. 

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## MRichard (Jan 23, 2017)

Blake Bowden said:


> Next month I would like to invite a Prince Hall Brother to attend Lodge with me. I've been told inter-visitation is accepted, until I saw the requirements. Really? Forms, approval, etc? It's more of visitation with heavy restrictions.
> 
> To the MW Grand Lodge of Texas and the MW Prince Hall Grand Lodge of Texas, drop the suffocating requirements. Seriously.



That would be tough. You have to submit the paperwork to your grand secretary who then sends it to his counterpart who then sends it to the WM of the lodge.

I recently created a Facebook group Bridge Builders of Freemasonry (US) to bring brothers of both grand lodges together. Feel free to join. Link is in my profile also.


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## dfreybur (Jan 23, 2017)

Bro. David F. Hill said:


> Also, it gives the lodge a chance to say that the night may not be a good idea as something that is internal is being discussed.



One time visiting the PHA lodge that is a tenant in my mother lodge's building they said that.

I offered to replace the tiler so more of their own members could be inside participating in the members only private discussion.


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## Ripcord22A (Jan 23, 2017)

Benjamin Baxter said:


> new book of constituent lodges so I could look and see if any prince hall lodges are listed.



there wont be as the PHA lodges are not constituents of the GLoTX.  the book you need to look in is called the book of Lodges Masonic(at least that is what it is called here in NM and in Oregon.)  It is a book of all the GLs that you GL recognizes.  they say "im from lodge XXX #YYY of the MWPHAGLoPA" and you look up that GL and yup we recognize them, then you check to make sure that that lodge is in fact a constituent lodge of that GL.  Make sure they have a valid dues card and bada bing bada boom all that's left is the tylers oath to make sure he knows his stuff.



Bro. David F. Hill said:


> The process seems long but it works. With this in place you can verify that the brother is what he says he is. Many times we meet a mason only to find out that he is inactive, suspended or actually a member of one of the many bogus lodges. This helps to verify that. Also, it gives the lodge a chance to say that the night may not be a good idea as something that is internal is being discussed. \.



What about other jurisdictions?  Im a member of OR and NM GLs, both have PHA recognition which means that we recognize all PHA GLs that have local recognition.  we have no silly extra steps, just show up or at most give a courtesy email or call to the SEC that we are coming. 

there is nothing that stops a brother from a different jurisdiction from just showing up at a Lodge of either GL in question.


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## Bill Lins (Jan 23, 2017)

Ripcord22A said:


> there wont be as the PHA lodges are not constituents of the GLoTX.  the book you need to look in is called the book of Lodges Masonic(at least that is what it is called here in NM and in Oregon.)  It is a book of all the GLs that you GL recognizes.


The book we use in Texas is titled "List of Lodges Masonic", published by Pantagraph Printing of Illinois.


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## Ripcord22A (Jan 23, 2017)

Same thing....

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## Benjamin Baxter (Jan 24, 2017)

My apologies I said the wrong book. Thanks for keeping me straight....I went to the grand lodge library last weekend. I seen a lot of titles....lol


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## Blake Bowden (Jan 26, 2017)

Thank you for the responses. There was another post similar to this but I wanted to focus on Texas Masonry. While I'm thankful that we have a process for inter-visitation, I still think it stinks. It's more prohibitive than anything...probably by design. I just don't understand why we can't show our dues cards and call it a day. I think both Grand Lodges are more than capable of informing their subordinate lodges of what to look for in regards to legitimate dues cards. When I visit a Lodge, they do a quick interview, look at my ID and dues card and call it a day. Why can't it be that easy?


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## goomba (Jan 26, 2017)

Blake Bowden said:


> Thank you for the responses. There was another post similar to this but I wanted to focus on Texas Masonry. While I'm thankful that we have a process for inter-visitation, I still think it stinks. It's more prohibitive than anything...probably by design. I just don't understand why we can't show our dues cards and call it a day. I think both Grand Lodges are more than capable of informing their subordinate lodges of what to look for in regards to legitimate dues cards. When I visit a Lodge, they do a quick interview, look at my ID and dues card and call it a day. Why can't it be that easy?



I'm with you brother!  Treat each other like any brother from another jurisdiction and let that be it.  With smartphones finding out if a lodge is a real masonic lodge is getting easy.


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## Dontrell Stroman (Jan 26, 2017)

You brothers are on it. 

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## dfreybur (Jan 27, 2017)

goomba said:


> With smartphones finding out if a lodge is a real masonic lodge is getting easy.



I've heard the excuse "but how do we tell which lodges are the valid ones" enough times that I roll my eyes and write off the statement as a lame excuse.


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## Bill Lins (Jan 27, 2017)

Blake Bowden said:


> Why can't it be that easy?


It SHOULD be.


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## BullDozer Harrell (Jan 27, 2017)

What's up with the informal network? A Brother that knows a Brother across jurisdictions who can vouch for membership. Verification is just a phone call away. 

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## BullDozer Harrell (Jan 27, 2017)

dfreybur said:


> I've heard the excuse "but how do we tell which lodges are the valid ones" enough times that I roll my eyes and write off the statement as a lame excuse.


Yep if it sounds like bs then it's 99.9% chance that it's a turd thrown at you.

Android OS Nougat 7.0


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## bupton52 (Feb 19, 2017)

Blake Bowden said:


> Thank you for the responses. There was another post similar to this but I wanted to focus on Texas Masonry. While I'm thankful that we have a process for inter-visitation, I still think it stinks. It's more prohibitive than anything...probably by design. I just don't understand why we can't show our dues cards and call it a day. I think both Grand Lodges are more than capable of informing their subordinate lodges of what to look for in regards to legitimate dues cards. When I visit a Lodge, they do a quick interview, look at my ID and dues card and call it a day. Why can't it be that easy?



I believe that this paperwork has to be submitted for each and every lodge that you plan to attend. That first visit is most definitely going to have to be planned, but afterwards you can visit that particular lodge freely. 


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## Bro. David F. Hill (Feb 19, 2017)

What you have to remember is that this is Texas. A former republic and member of the confederacy.  Even though the vote passed both Grand Lodges, there's people on both sides that hold on to old beliefs and prejudices. Remember that the local lodge has to vote on the request and at that time those feelings may surface from some member(s).  This helps to keep the embarrassment of showing up at a meeting and being treated with less than brotherly love.  To date most of the visits have been in major metropolitan areas where more people are willing to not dwell on the differences but the current political climate may aid or hinder further easing of the process depending on the deep seated beliefs of the minority of members that will silently or vocally show discontent.  That's my personal 2 cents.


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## Bro. Stewart P.M. (Feb 19, 2017)

Bro. David F. Hill said:


> What you have to remember is that this is Texas. A former republic and member of the confederacy.  Even though the vote passed both Grand Lodges, there's people on both sides that hold on to old beliefs and prejudices. Remember that the local lodge has to vote on the request and at that time those feelings may surface from some member(s).  This helps to keep the embarrassment of showing up at a meeting and being treated with less than brotherly love.  To date most of the visits have been in major metropolitan areas where more people are willing to not dwell on the differences but the current political climate may aid or hinder further easing of the process depending on the deep seated beliefs of the minority of members that will silently or vocally show discontent.  That's my personal 2 cents.



This "old beliefs & prejudices" that you speak of is not exclusive to Texas. Should there ever be any doubt, just do a bit of traveling.

The key factor in much of this is more related to the physical "age" of the Lodge membership. This age is the primary reason that you are seeing more involved cross-visitation in the major metropolitan areas. The more of the younger Brethren who speak out against the "old guard" publicly, the faster we will put all of this behind us, and the more normal interaction will become. We can not allow the generations prior to silence the future of this great and honorable Fraternity of Men.

Trust me, it is very difficult to tell a Pearl Harbor Veteran to stop making bigoted jokes and comments, but it can be done.

Spoken by a true Son of both the Republic Texas & the Confederacy. My two cents.


Stewart M. Owings, P∴ M∴
Lead Moderator


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## tldubb (Feb 20, 2017)

In PA with have visitation between both GL's for quite some time and it really is a beautiful thing no paperwork required, just brotherly love.


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## Bro. David F. Hill (Feb 22, 2017)

Bro. Stewart P.M. said:


> This "old beliefs & prejudices" that you speak of is not exclusive to Texas. Should there ever be any doubt, just do a bit of traveling.
> 
> The key factor in much of this is more related to the physical "age" of the Lodge membership. This age is the primary reason that you are seeing more involved cross-visitation in the major metropolitan areas. The more of the younger Brethren who speak out against the "old guard" publicly, the faster we will put all of this behind us, and the more normal interaction will become. We can not allow the generations prior to silence the future of this great and honorable Fraternity of Men.
> 
> ...


I have met with quite a few Brothers from the Grand Lodge of Texas and I have been impressed with the reception that I received. Not once did any of them show any un-masonic attitudes towards me or Prince Hall masonry. I tip my hat to PM Stewart for his honesty for being able to acknowledge his past but also show that it didn't keep him from changing his attitude as he traveled.  We all have scars from our pasts but they don't determine where we are going.  They only show where we have been.


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## Kenneth NC Mason (Feb 24, 2017)

It has been my experience as a NC Mason that visiting prince hall even in our state is a little bit tricky. Most visitation apparently happens in city areas, not rural. The Prince Hall GL website does not list the numbers for the masters and secretaries, only the DDGMs. Ours is the opposite. 

It gets rather frustrating when I've got to call a DDGM only to find out he's not the head over the district of the lodge I'd like to visit , and then be told I don't know what district that's in by the DDGM. It makes for quite a bunch of calls to make , just to find out if I'll even be accepted into their local lodge. Unfortunately; even though there is recognition I've been yelled at over the phone for a solid 30 minutes on more than one occasion by a particular Prince Hall AGL for wanting to visit lodges that are Prince Hall in NC....even in his district 

His question to me " Why do you find prince hall Masonry interesting ( and no this wasn't in a friendly tone )" ? And " Why on earth do you want to visit our lodges"? 

How about , it is steeped in tradition and history , they do tons of service for the community and their ritual is quite different than NC Mainstream ritual PLUS we have recognition. I've also heard more racial slurs then I care to count in my local lodge that I'm from about prince hall brothers, I want to prove some brethren in my lodge wrong as far as their actions by the love I choose to extend to ALL brethren , if that makes sense. 

Another avenue where things get tricky as far as my experience with prince hall has been finding out transportation to lodge meetings or degree work ( I can't drive due to a visual impairment)

Recently , I've been invited to a district raising in Durham . That's 30 minutes from my campus. The master of the lodge is looking into people to get me there, dome hell or high water. He did advise me to check locally as well. So that's what I did. The local PH DDGM lives near my campus . I asked him if any of the members of his lodge or district were attending. He said no, which was fine. But then he said something that threw me for a loop . He told me to call the Grand Secretary for MWPHGLNC and ask him about finding transportation..... 

As much as I'm willing to try that I'd rather not run the risk of pissing any more Prince hall brothers off. But then again I'm not in Masonry to be a people pleaser 

I love fellowshipping with my prince hall brothers , I just wish it wasn't such a tough process to go visit.


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## Ripcord22A (Feb 24, 2017)

Kenneth NC Mason said:


> The local PH DDGM lives near my campus . I asked him if any of the members of his lodge or district were attending. He said no, which was fine. But then he said something that threw me for a loop . He told me to call the Grand Secretary for MWPHGLNC and ask him about finding transportation.....
> 
> Yeah... I'll get right on that , not.. My Freemasonry


Maybe you should.  They might have a carpool set up.  Its worth a try.  Just call and introduce yourself and say you were inquiring about carpools to the district raising.  There mught be a Bro coming right thru your area



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## BullDozer Harrell (Feb 24, 2017)

Bro. David F. Hill said:


> What you have to remember is that this is Texas. A former republic and member of the confederacy.  Even though the vote passed both Grand Lodges, there's people on both sides that hold on to old beliefs and prejudices. Remember that the local lodge has to vote on the request and at that time those feelings may surface from some member(s).  This helps to keep the embarrassment of showing up at a meeting and being treated with less than brotherly love.  To date most of the visits have been in major metropolitan areas where more people are willing to not dwell on the differences but the current political climate may aid or hinder further easing of the process depending on the deep seated beliefs of the minority of members that will silently or vocally show discontent.  That's my personal 2 cents.


Brother, i must counterpoint your opinion with all due respect. Even understanding that the State of Texas are politically of a Rebel persuasion, it's 2017 and we're well past the days of the Confederacy. Besides the issue went through both GLs successfully and there's no reason whatsoever that the process should be as bureaucratic as what I'm hearing about.


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## MRichard (Feb 25, 2017)

BullDozer Harrell said:


> Brother, i must counterpoint your opinion with all due respect. Even understanding that the State of Texas are politically of a Rebel persuasion, it's 2017 and we're well past the days of the Confederacy. Besides the issue went through both GLs successfully and there's no reason whatsoever that the process should be as bureaucratic as what I'm hearing about.



Perception and reality are two different things. Brother Hill is probably a lot closer to the truth than most would like to admit. There is a reason that the process is bureaucratic and gives the lodge the option to decline visitation or sometimes the communication network breaks down. There are sides in both grand lodges that really don't care for the visitation process.

I thought we were well past the days of the Confederacy as well but not everyone feels that way.


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## BullDozer Harrell (Feb 25, 2017)

MRichard said:


> Perception and reality are two different things. Brother Hill is probably a lot closer to the truth than most would like to admit. There is a reason that the process is bureaucratic and gives the lodge the option to decline visitation or sometimes the communication network breaks down. There are sides in both grand lodges that really don't care for the visitation process.
> 
> I thought we were well past the days of the Confederacy as well but not everyone feels that way.


Duly noted.


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## Bloke (Feb 25, 2017)

MRichard said:


> ......I thought we were well past the days of the Confederacy as well but not everyone feels that way.



Only one way to move beyond them: move beyond them....


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## MRichard (Mar 3, 2017)

My lodge just visited a local PHA lodge and we got to witness a FC degree. Great experience. I created a Facebook group called the Bridge Builders and we will try to do at least quarterly visits to a PHA lodge if not more.


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## Dontrell Stroman (Mar 7, 2017)

MRichard said:


> My lodge just visited a local PHA lodge and we got to witness a FC degree. Great experience. I created a Facebook group called the Bridge Builders and we will try to do at least quarterly visits to a PHA lodge if not more.


Awesome !! Was there much difference bro ?


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## MRichard (Mar 7, 2017)

Travelling Man91 said:


> Awesome !! Was there much difference bro ?



Yes but mostly similar. The work is slightly different.


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## Alfred Taylor (Apr 17, 2017)

MRichard said:


> That would be tough. You have to submit the paperwork to your grand secretary who then sends it to his counterpart who then sends it to the WM of the lodge.
> 
> I recently created a Facebook group Bridge Builders of Freemasonry (US) to bring brothers of both grand lodges together. Feel free to join. Link is in my profile also.



Requested to join group


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## bupton52 (Apr 17, 2017)

Alfred Taylor said:


> Requested to join group



Are you already a Freemason or looking to join? I believe that group is for members. 


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## Alfred Taylor (Apr 17, 2017)

I'm already a Freemason. My dues card has been posted on one of these threads. I can produce it again if need be??


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## bupton52 (Apr 17, 2017)

Alfred Taylor said:


> I'm already a Freemason. My dues card has been posted on one of these threads. I can produce it again if need be??



Naw. You are good. 


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## BullDozer Harrell (Apr 17, 2017)

Brother Taylor, i sent the contact information to your inbox. Call Brother Black.


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