# Prop 5



## Blake Bowden (Dec 7, 2009)

Brethren,

I've read through numerous arguments, but I feel the passing of Prop. 5 was a HUGE disservice to our Craft. Can any Brother tell me how this will benefit our Lodges? Do you honestly believe this will IMPROVE the quality of our ritual work? Sorry, but it was a vote of convenience, NOT Freemasonry.


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## ddreader (Dec 7, 2009)

i feel like this was a step backwards for us.( my opinion). we lost the vote. but not the ability to try to change it back. i felt like this was more of a you cannot tell us what to do in our subordinate lodge . and a in your face kind of thing. i mean if you think the grand east is big brother. maybe you missed the point of it all somewhere. (my opinion.) i do not remember the grand lodge of Texas asking me to join. i think it was what i wanted to do. and i kinda remember agreeing to fallow their rules before i did so. how about you. did you do that to. or was it just me? i will respect the fact that we were out voted and fallow the new rules as i should. i hope that the quality of the work improves. now that our lodges do not have to meet. a required standard of excellence . they can just do what they think is best as they see fit. i wander what other kind of overbearing requirement will be on the list next time? may god bless us as we head down this knew road of freedom.


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## Bill Lins (Dec 7, 2009)

ddreader said:


> i hope that the quality of the work improves. now that our lodges do not have to meet. a required standard of excellence .



Fat chance of *that* happening.  :sad:


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## ddreader (Dec 7, 2009)

well written brother.


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## Bro. Stewart P.M. (Dec 7, 2009)

I have to agree with what has been said thus far. I believe that this is a step backwards from the direction that we should be heading.


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## rhitland (Dec 7, 2009)

What stops a Lodge from adopting in their rules or regulations that your WM has to be certed by the DI. Why does GL have to make us do it why can we not be big boys and do it on our own. Sure you have Lodges who do not give a stink but that law did not change them last year nor will it change them in the future. If you want your Lodge to have a focus on knowing the ritual then make it so, I do not see the value in having GL do the work that should be done by a lodge. Next thing you know we will pass a law to have GL come mow our lodges grass or maybe wipe our ___.. ! If we as lodges get so dependent on GL to make sure we are responsible then why have lodges at all.


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## owls84 (Dec 7, 2009)

Rhit, beat me to the punch. What stops the individual lodges from adding a requirement that the Lodge officers hold a "c" certificate from the CoW? I know this is a shock coming from me but we want our Lodges to have more power yet we want Grand Lodge to govern us. Can't have both. All the Lodges that hold the higher standard will survive through the time ahead. We are about to drop members like tempratures at night and only the strong lodges will survive. If people don't have a reason to be at a Lodge they won't come. To me it doesn't matter one way or the other. We (at my Lodge) will continue to have the bar raised for our officers to meet it.


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## Bigmel (Dec 7, 2009)

I am a 40 + year Mason and I have seen a lot of change in the Law Book.  I have no problem with the Form 101 and that is what this is all about.  Every lodge should be able to open and close their Lodge.  And the East is not a Training ground for that. However, it is not the Grand East job to tell or certify a Master for that position.  Several years a go the Law book stated that the elected Master Shall be able to open and close the lodge and most Lodges set their Lodge Instructor to labor instructing the line Officers in their duties for opening the lodge in the correct manner and the results was reported to said lodge, They had Pride that their Masters and Line Officers could do their duties., and that was left up to the Lodge to determine if he was.. And the then it was changed Should, a big difference in the word.  That is when the Lodges started loosing their pride. Our young Masons should be trained not given the history of our Fraternity


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## TCShelton (Dec 7, 2009)

I'm gonna bring this up next Monday about adding a DI certification for our officers in our by-laws.  We need to be qualified to open and close.  The other stuff on the "c" cert, I don't really care about.


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## rhitland (Dec 7, 2009)

Our lodge has hurt a few peoples feelings that wear them on their sleeve so much so in some cases they left all together but the goods ones come back and stick around because their is discipline and something to work for. 

I am with you WM we need to add that to our rules or regs not the by-laws though that takes GL approval and rules and regs are just as binded and much easier and quicker.


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## jonesvilletexas (Dec 7, 2009)

Brethren I hear a lot of Big Brother, The Grand Lodge is makings us do this or do that and so on.
Who do you think Grand Lodge is? When YOU as a lodge vote in a brother into office,  now that cannot NOR has the desire to learn the opening and closing of the lodge, YOU have put a vote in the hands of a brother that I am not quite sure I would won’t voting for me at Grand Lodge.


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## rhitland (Dec 7, 2009)

jonesvilletexas said:


> Brethren I hear a lot of Big Brother, The Grand Lodge is makings us do this or do that and so on.
> Who do you think Grand Lodge is? When YOU as a lodge vote in a brother into office,  now that cannot NOR has the desire to learn the opening and closing of the lodge, YOU have put a vote in the hands of a brother that I am not quite sure I would wonâ€™t voting for me at Grand Lodge.



My question is why in the world would a Lodge vote in an officer who turns their nose to the ritual work? What happened to the prestige of the chairs. The "old guys" used to make being an officer something to attain and work for, now the chairs are just babysitters and mediators most of the time at best. There are many causes to this problem but one major one is the fact lodges and Masons believe someone in Waco has a magic wand to fix their lodges problems.


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## jonesvilletexas (Dec 7, 2009)

The By-Laws of the Lodge once approved by the By-Laws Committee become an extension of The Grand Lodge Laws and if they are not in conflict with them the lodge can put ant regulation they won’t. Please check me out.


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## TCShelton (Dec 7, 2009)

rhitland said:


> I am with you WM we need to add that to our rules or regs not the by-laws though that takes GL approval and rules and regs are just as binded and much easier and quicker.



How so?  What do you mean "rules and regs?"


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## TCShelton (Dec 7, 2009)

rhitland said:


> My question is why in the world would a Lodge vote in an officer who turns their nose to the ritual work?



Come on now, like we haven't seen crazier stuff in Masonry?


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## RAY (Dec 7, 2009)

Prior to election we test our own officers as to proficiency in there respective office. We hold instruction every week and we don't need GL to wipe our noses for us. It's each lodges responsibility to see that the required level of knowledge is achieved. Last year I saw officers in lodge that couldn't open a door much less a lodge that were passed by GL instructors. It's up to us to see that we raise the quality of officers needed period. Resolution 5 was voted on and passed so its a done deal and I am glad to see it gone since it didn't work as it should.PGM Griffith stated in GL that he would never fail a Brother if he was trying to learn. I see no up grading any lodge with that statement. If a Brother can't learn opening and closing a lodge it make's me wonder how he passed his esoterical


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## owls84 (Dec 7, 2009)

Hey why do degree's? I say we nix them too. What the hell.. ! Why have the Committee on Work? Why have Grand Lodge then? We can keep going. If there is no uniformity then the system has failed. I agree the Lodges can govern themselves but some don't plain and simple. The ones that don't can't be forced if there is no rule or regulation to do so. Otherwise the GL is powerless. 

What do you do when you get you brother initiated and in the small town they give him a code book to tlearn the work because no one knows the work? Just let it happen? Why not, its going perfect at YOUR Lodge. Our system is flawed and this is the mindset that people don't want to come to the realization that needs to be tweaked to stop the Lodges that are taking care of the fact that just because it is not written don't mean you don't have to do it. I personally get tired of pwople with the blinders on. Travel to a lodge and sit in a HORRIBLE opening and closing. The light is dim and is the Square and compass sign out front is the only thing letting these guys pay dues then that is a problem that our GL should be able to take care of. We just stopped them from doing so. So I have to stand and applaud the ones that voted to pass this resolution and say thank you for making Masonry that much better (<---- Sarcasm). For once our GL took a stand on an issue and our Grand West dropped the ball. If the lodges would do their job we wouldn't have the issues we currently have. 

For those that run perfect Lodges, this is not to you. I do challenge you to go to other Lodges and as many as you can. If in your travels you visit a Lodge where everyone is uneasy and you start to feel real bad for the guy in the east because you know he is very embarrased to have a visitor and can't open and close (like I had to go through) you will understand and maybe, just maybe you can help find a solution. Oh and just because your master can lead a fundraiser and make a good brisket that don't make him be able to spread Masonry, that makes him a good public relations committee chairman. I want someone to explain the symbolism and allegories and lead the Lodge. 

Hey, I'm just a Secretary Pro-Tem what do I know. Apparently nothing. Tom, Soap Box is yours.


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## js4253 (Dec 7, 2009)

owls84 said:


> Hey why do degree's? I say we nix them too. What the hell.. ! Why have the Committee on Work? Why have Grand Lodge then? We can keep going. If there is no uniformity then the system has failed. I agree the Lodges can govern themselves but some don't plain and simple. The ones that don't can't be forced if there is no rule or regulation to do so. Otherwise the GL is powerless.
> 
> What do you do when you get you brother initiated and in the small town they give him a code book to tlearn the work because no one knows the work? Just let it happen? Why not, its going perfect at YOUR Lodge. Our system is flawed and this is the mindset that people don't want to come to the realization that needs to be tweaked to stop the Lodges that are taking care of the fact that just because it is not written don't mean you don't have to do it. I personally get tired of pwople with the blinders on. Travel to a lodge and sit in a HORRIBLE opening and closing. The light is dim and is the Square and compass sign out front is the only thing letting these guys pay dues then that is a problem that our GL should be able to take care of. We just stopped them from doing so. So I have to stand and applaud the ones that voted to pass this resolution and say thank you for making Masonry that much better (<---- Sarcasm). For once our GL took a stand on an issue and our Grand West dropped the ball. If the lodges would do their job we wouldn't have the issues we currently have.
> 
> ...



Keep up the good work. I'm sure you will be able to improve your Lodge.


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## owls84 (Dec 7, 2009)

js4253 said:


> Keep up the good work. I'm sure you will be able to improve your Lodge.



Please don't get me wrong we are taking the steps to add this in our by-laws. We have for the past few years raised our bar so high that we are growing in a positive direction exponetially. We have been asked to do programs at Lodges all over our district and I know of 4 Lodges the programs in some form have been implimented with results. This is for Lodges we can't reach. This is for the guy that is trying to change his lodge but don't have the other 4 guys it takes to out number the good ole boy system that his Lodge has. This was not for me Brother, this was for that Mason that all he needed was a little help from Grand Lodge to throw a wrench in the current system at his Lodge and because this passed. We failed.


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## js4253 (Dec 7, 2009)

owls84 said:


> This was not for me Brother, this was for that Mason that all he needed was a little help from Grand Lodge to throw a wrench in the current system at his Lodge and because this passed. We failed.



Josh, I was just messing with you.  I can tell you are very passionate about making Masonry all it should be.  We need more can do people.


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## owls84 (Dec 7, 2009)

Brother, please there is no need for apologies. This actually allows me to add clarification to what we are trying to say anyway. 

Just because something is going well at your Lodge does not mean that the system as a whole could not use a resolution passed. I know my Lodge is raising the bar but it has taken so much work from the people before me to do and set the standard for me to meet. I am honored to be a part of this change. I also know that for sometime they could not make changes because they did not have the numbers to fix the good ole boy system. We now do. We now are able to use the numbers to our advangtage. I just know there are others that are trying to do what the one before me have done and I think that since some members could not see past their nose they did not hear nor see the brother asking for help. It is what it is and I thank you for allowing me to clarify this.


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## HKTidwell (Dec 7, 2009)

I wrote this the other day and deleted it, however I'll try to rewrite it.  

A lodge should be proud of the traditions, a lodge should be humble about their history, a lodge should be proud of who they are, a lodge should be humble about today, a lodge should be proud of their abilities, but a lodge should be humble.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that the lodges and members make the Grand Lodge, the grand lodge does not make the lodges.  Each lodge should have enough honor, respect, and integrity to further Masonry in a good light.

Yes we have our issues in my lodge, sometimes things aren't opened exactly right or closed as they should be but I've never seen it done perfect either.  I've never seen a degree preformed perfect they all have mistakes.  If the lodges are making Masons then does it matter.  When I say Masons I'm not meaning members, I'm mean MASONS in every sense of the word. 

Do I think everybody should strive to make things better, yes I do!  I think we all have a responsibility to step up to the plate.  If a brother needs help then we need to help them, and not Grand Lodge.  If we have a brother that doesn't know his work why should it be the Grand Lodges' issue?  If the brothers in that lodge do not have what it takes to make their lodge better then give them time they will fail.  If they ask for help then it is our duty to fly to their relief.  Also if one of us is traveling or visiting a lodge and see it is struggling then perhaps we should join that lodge and take it upon ourselves to try to make a difference.

I see both sides to this proposition, but in the end I think that it is the responsibility of the lodges to ensure longevity of themselves unless they ask for help.  Just my opinion.


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## caeservi (Dec 7, 2009)

As I set there and watched the vote being taken, I grew more and more disappointed.  I have visited a lot of small lodges; some are very sharp and take pride in their work, some are flat-out embarrassing to watch.  I'm sorry, while in general I say let the lodges decide, there are some lodges that don't care and should not have the final say on proficency of their officers.  I've seen a SW try to hand his jewel over to a PM to open a FC lodge.  If I hadn't brought it to the DDGM's attention (he was sitting right beside me), they would have violated grand lodge law and not thought a thing about it.


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## Bill Lins (Dec 7, 2009)

TCShelton said:


> I'm gonna bring this up next Monday about adding a DI certification for our officers in our by-laws.



Don't bother, guys. We tried it last year & got shot down by the ByLaws Committee. I appealed it to Tommy Griffin & he said "no". I was shocked!

Their reasoning was that the requirements are stated in Grand Lodge Law & individual Lodges do not have the authority to change them, even if the change is more restrictive rather than less. :-(


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## TCShelton (Dec 8, 2009)

Bill_Lins77488 said:


> Don't bother, guys. We tried it last year & got shot down by the ByLaws Committee. I appealed it to Tommy Griffin & he said "no". I was shocked!



We will do as Bro. Rhit said, and add them to our lodge rules and regulations, so GL has nothing to do with it.

The more I think about it, I'm not really sure that GL is prepared to handle certifying lodges and all that anyway.  I've had enough problems getting anyone down there to answer simple questions, let alone be responsible for a statewide initiative.


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## Wingnut (Dec 8, 2009)

Just a few points:

People live up to the expectations placed on them.  We see this everyday at work as we raise the expectations.  This is true of course up to a point, but if that point is just barely hitting minimal standards, folks need to man up.  It seems if the energy spent bitching and moaning about having to be able to open and close was put into learning how to open and close we could have shortend a lot of the discussion...

At work at one time we converted contractors to a 1st line manager position when they reached the end of their contract.  Something that we had to constantly keep in mind was that once they were converted they would be equal to every 1st line manager in the company.  They could also move to any 1st line manager job in the company and even be promoted to 2nd line.  Many were good at their job, no doubt, but many should never have been let loose to move to other management jobs.  Once a person is raised by a lodge that is pencil whipping the proficency, certifications and learnings it does the entire craft a disservice.


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## Gerald.Harris (Dec 8, 2009)

Bigmel said:


> I am a 40 + year Mason and I have seen a lot of change in the Law Book.  I have no problem with the Form 101 and that is what this is all about.  Every lodge should be able to open and close their Lodge.  And the East is not a Training ground for that. However, it is not the Grand East job to tell or certify a Master for that position.  Several years a go the Law book stated that the elected Master Shall be able to open and close the lodge and most Lodges set their Lodge Instructor to labor instructing the line Officers in their duties for opening the lodge in the correct manner and the results was reported to said lodge, They had Pride that their Masters and Line Officers could do their duties., and that was left up to the Lodge to determine if he was.. And the then it was changed Should, a big difference in the word.  That is when the Lodges started loosing their pride. Our young Masons should be trained not given the history of our Fraternity



 My Brother, I well remember the days of which you speak, I also remember that it was the duty of the DI or a Member of the Com on Work, to sign a document (Form 71- I think) That had to be signed by an Installing Officer at Installation stating that the brethren were all certified. This changed at the end of RW Mike Gower's tenure as Grand Master because it was his recommendation that the form be done away with. A short  year or two later the wording in Art. 276-A was changed from Shall to Should. In a few short years the ritualistic opening and closing ended up where it was in 2008, when the GM requested the DI's grade the lodges to see where they were in their profeciency in the O&C ritual. Being a DI, I can tell you that in some cases it was worse then terrible in some lodges. So at the end of RW Griffin's year he recommended a change to Art 276-A once more, and the word was changed to Shall again. Now in one short year, we have reverted back on the road to mediocracy again. 
 In answer to your statement that it is not the Grand East who should tell a lodge if their officers are certified or not, I say to you, Then to whom does the responsibility lie? Where are the laws made and changed, why would the Grand Lodge leave it to the lodges to enforce a Grand Lodge Law?
 The simple fact of the matter is, that if the lodges are left to their own system of enforcement, then there are several of them that will not even begin to see that their Master is Certified because they simply don't care. I do not understand this line of thinking, but history convinces me that I am right.  
  I also listened to RW Harrison make a statement that wasn't helping a brother out what Masonry was all about? I say that how are we helping a brother out if we do not make him accountable for his actions.


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## TCShelton (Dec 8, 2009)

Gerald.Harris said:


> I say that how are we helping a brother out if we do not make him accountable for his actions.



Well said.  I think this speaks to the majority of the issues we face, not just learning how to open and close.


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## owls84 (Dec 8, 2009)

Very wise words Brother Harris.


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## Sirius (Dec 8, 2009)

Gerald.Harris said:


> The simple fact of the matter is, that if the lodges are left to their own system of enforcement, then there are several of them that will not even begin to see that their Master is Certified because they simply don't care. I do not understand this line of thinking, but history convinces me that I am right.



If the Lodges were left to their own, I feel a great many things would go to the wayside. We already have Lodges ,Big Cat Lodge, that do exactly what they want with reckless abandon. Lodges left completely unchecked begins the step decline into the darkness of the oblivion.


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## kmfisher1 (Dec 9, 2009)

A Mason's proficiency is performed to the satisfaction of his Lodge each step of the way. With that in mind, I believe his Lodge would also help him decide whether or not his work is up to par enough to be WM, or any other principal officer for that matter. Each member willing to put forth the time and effort it takes to help, lead, amd assist in his Lodge knows good work from bad and so do the rest of the members. I've also attended enough forums and workshops to know that much that goes on there is very subjective. Even many of the DI don't agree on certain things, how they're said, or performed in certain ways...this will be the case regardless. 
This is one reason why I feel strongly that now that the code book has been recognized and that it exists with limitations. It's time that a correct one be kept that way, each time the work changes. That way, everyone would have a proper reference, which would overall lead to much better work.

I've listened to and seen many A & B cert holders that really weren't any better than some C, tell me how this really does our craft any good?
holders.


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## Wingnut (Dec 9, 2009)

Hey Papa long time Brother!


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## ddreader (Dec 10, 2009)

halfassism has no place in masonry. i think that about covers it. don't you agree?


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## RAY (Dec 10, 2009)

Brothers,
It's always going to be a word or so different no matter how we do it. Knowing of the situation GM Brian Dodson removed the DI's in 2006 so things could regroup and get it together. It did help but no matter what system written or verbal words will be dropped or changed by accident. This is where the mass of your proficient Brothers come into play. Putting your heads together can and will make a difference in your lodge and this is a good place to start. Having regular study nights in your lodge on degrees and the rituals will increase every ones knowledge and also strengthens fellowship. I never tell a Brother he is wrong but inform him that's not the way I have it. How we handle situations also can increase fellowship with that all important Peace and Harmony.


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## Chris_Ryland (Dec 10, 2009)

Brethren,

I see the points on both sides of this debate, however, I have to side with Brother Harris.  If we don't have some type of certification process, then many lodges and brothers will never learn how to open and close lodge properly.  Our ritual has been preserved for generations because Masons have taken pride in the learning of this ritual.  The ritual has, in the past few years, taken a back seat in several lodges because of lack of participation.  In several lodges, Worshipful Masters are elected by "who hasn't been Master yet" rather than by who is the best to lead their lodge for the upcoming year.  In my humble opinion, we needed this process to ensure that everyone that was opening and closing lodges was qualified to do so.  I don't want our great state to be embarassed if we have a visitor from another Grand Jurisdiction visit a small lodge anywhere in the state.  We should all have Masonry's best interest at heart and not just our personal lodge's best interest when we consider laws such as this.


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## JEbeling (Dec 11, 2009)

most of the objection to the idea of the DI involved in Certification of the WM of a  lodge was the idea of "Big Brother" .. ! and most DI's worked hard to get the brethren to learn the work.. ! but the question always came up.. ! what if they didn't..? no one had a good answer..? what if you were and installing officer and you installed a brother that was not certified.. ! was Grand Lodge going to remove him..? don't think so..? 

I still think this kinda of thing must be taken care of on a local level.. ! the state is just to big and to many lodges to run some kind of Certification program.. ! it has to be in the pride of the incoming Master to learn the work right.. ! 

having said that .. ! I can remember the first nite as a WM of the Lodge and having Grand Lodge officers in the room.. ! and holding an A Cert.. ! I couldn't have gotten my Name right if some would have ask me..?


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## owls84 (Dec 11, 2009)

JEbeling said:


> what if they didn't..? no one had a good answer..? what if you were and installing officer and you installed a brother that was not certified.. ! was Grand Lodge going to remove him..? don't think so..?



Should the answer be Yes? Grand Lodge step in and enforce the Law that was written. The problem is EVERYONE in the state know it won't though and that is why it has reached this point. Do you know how many times I have personally heard, "What is Grand Lodge going to do about it?". A ton. That is sad because they have been right. Please prove me wrong.


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## Chris_Ryland (Dec 11, 2009)

As DDGM last year, I had to sign a form--101--that said that a brother was proficient and had the qualifications to move into the East of his lodge.  I, personally told every SW that if I didn't have the required paperwork that I would personally make sure that they were not installed in their lodge.  They had 6 months to comply and everyone did.  They all knew the consequences of not taking care of business.  We should all have the pride to take care of the business of learning to be leaders of our respective lodges, whether it is learning and certifying in the opening and closing or the L.I.F.E. Program.  I am proud that I was a part of these brothers learning there work and even helped several of them with it.


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## TCShelton (Dec 11, 2009)

owls84 said:


> Should the answer be Yes? Grand Lodge step in and enforce the Law that was written. The problem is EVERYONE in the state know it won't though and that is why it has reached this point. Do you know how many times I have personally heard, "What is Grand Lodge going to do about it?". A ton. That is sad because they have been right. Please prove me wrong.



+1.


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## owls84 (Dec 11, 2009)

Chris_Ryland said:


> As DDGM last year, I had to sign a form--101--that said that a brother was proficient and had the qualifications to move into the East of his lodge.  I, personally told every SW that if I didn't have the required paperwork that I would personally make sure that they were not installed in their lodge.  They had 6 months to comply and everyone did.  They all knew the consequences of not taking care of business.  We should all have the pride to take care of the business of learning to be leaders of our respective lodges, whether it is learning and certifying in the opening and closing or the L.I.F.E. Program.  I am proud that I was a part of these brothers learning there work and even helped several of them with it.



Had there been a Form 101 would they have learned it on their own?? My bet is no. So my next question is how does the form 101 hurt a lodge if it is under GL control? I still don't see the other side. If you can't take the time to learn the open and close then what? You learned more in the Q&A so you can learn. Oh, maybe they didn't learn the Q&A either.....:38: I see now.


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## Gerald.Harris (Dec 11, 2009)

RAY said:


> Brothers,
> It's always going to be a word or so different no matter how we do it. Knowing of the situation GM Brian Dodson removed the DI's in 2006 so things could regroup and get it together. It did help but no matter what system written or verbal words will be dropped or changed by accident. This is where the mass of your proficient Brothers come into play. Putting your heads together can and will make a difference in your lodge and this is a good place to start. Having regular study nights in your lodge on degrees and the rituals will increase every ones knowledge and also strengthens fellowship. I never tell a Brother he is wrong but inform him that's not the way I have it. How we handle situations also can increase fellowship with that all important Peace and Harmony.



 Brother Ray, I for one do not see where RW Dodson's move made any diffrence. There are still some DI's out there who have problems with an A Certificate Exam. Being that the gross number of people who are even intrested in obtaining an A Certificate continues to dwindle each year it wont be too terribly long before there wont be anyone to keep each of our lodges even close to the way that the COW teaches it.
 I also say that Practice for the sake of practice is counter productive and can do more harm than good. If the group is not practicing their work using the correct form and verbage, then guess what? Their work will most likely never be correct. They may get very proficient with their own ritual, but will it be the way that the Committee on Work teaches it? In the end we will have a multitude of stand alone little Grand Lodges of "anywhere " with their own ritual.


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## Chris_Ryland (Dec 11, 2009)

I don't believe that is entirely accurate.  Most of these brothers were already studying and working on these items.  I would venture to say that 7 of the 8, if not all 8, would have been proficient in opening and closing.  This just made them work harder to get certified.  I would have like for this particular Resolution to fail and to give this a chance to really take hold.  I don't think one year is a good time frame to repeal something like this.


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## Gerald.Harris (Dec 11, 2009)

kmfisher1 said:


> A Mason's proficiency is performed to the satisfaction of his Lodge each step of the way. With that in mind, I believe his Lodge would also help him decide whether or not his work is up to par enough to be WM, or any other principal officer for that matter. Each member willing to put forth the time and effort it takes to help, lead, amd assist in his Lodge knows good work from bad and so do the rest of the members. I've also attended enough forums and workshops to know that much that goes on there is very subjective. Even many of the DI don't agree on certain things, how they're said, or performed in certain ways...this will be the case regardless.
> This is one reason why I feel strongly that now that the code book has been recognized and that it exists with limitations. It's time that a correct one be kept that way, each time the work changes. That way, everyone would have a proper reference, which would overall lead to much better work.
> 
> I've listened to and seen many A & B cert holders that really weren't any better than some C, tell me how this really does our craft any good?
> holders.



 Brother Ken, I do not disagree with you on much of what you said, however a true Code Book has not been written in Texas and the chance of it happening was just voted down by the Grand West. With that in mind , what is our next step?
  I have sat in a minimum of 4 to 6 forums and exams in the last 7 years ( ever since I became a DI.) I sat in 1 to 2 a year that were exclusively for DI's and or Examiners. I have not seen a great diffrence from any of the guys in the South East Texas area ( the same area that you reside in) and I frankly have not seen that big of a gap in each Instructors work. I wonder if we are mixing up the components of an A Certificate with the form that the COW also sets and teaches as a part of contention? Correct me if I am wrong, but to my knowledge , the requirements of an "A" Certificate is only to be able to verbalize the work .


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## Gerald.Harris (Dec 11, 2009)

kmfisher1 said:


> A Mason's proficiency is performed to the satisfaction of his Lodge each step of the way. With that in mind, I believe his Lodge would also help him decide whether or not his work is up to par enough to be WM, or any other principal officer for that matter. Each member willing to put forth the time and effort it takes to help, lead, amd assist in his Lodge knows good work from bad and so do the rest of the members. I've also attended enough forums and workshops to know that much that goes on there is very subjective. Even many of the DI don't agree on certain things, how they're said, or performed in certain ways...this will be the case regardless.
> This is one reason why I feel strongly that now that the code book has been recognized and that it exists with limitations. It's time that a correct one be kept that way, each time the work changes. That way, everyone would have a proper reference, which would overall lead to much better work.
> 
> I've listened to and seen many A & B cert holders that really weren't any better than some C, tell me how this really does our craft any good?
> holders.



 Brother Ken, I for one do not see the necessity of having more then one certification. The premise of the B and C certificate was that it would promote more people to become certified, that it would help or encourage a brother to work towards getting an "A" certificate. I for one do not see that it has been successful, but this is my own opinion. I think it promotes complicity. What are your thoughts on this subject?


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