# Gay Men in Masonry



## CLewey44 (Dec 24, 2016)

Any thoughts on gay men being able to join Masonry? I know this topic has been hit on a lot but I work with a man that is gay and interested in Masonry. He's a Marine, upstanding guy but he is gay and has a partner. Would any of you object to allowing a gay man join?  Would you be comfortable in that situation?


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## Matt L (Dec 24, 2016)

He is a Marine and has served his country. Is he a good citizen and good to his partner? Does he believe in a supreme being?  If he would pass an investigation committee, regardless of his preference in partners, I would have no problem embracing him as a brother.


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## CLewey44 (Dec 24, 2016)

I agree. I have zero problem with it and I've been guiding him along but I was curious how other folks from other GLs felt on the issue. Very nice guy, spiritual person. I think he'd make an excellent Mason.


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## Matt L (Dec 24, 2016)

I do not speak for my GL, only for myself. I was in the minority


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## Brother JC (Dec 24, 2016)

It's none of my business how he loves. His other qualifications sound spot on.


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## zacbrown (Dec 24, 2016)

Looking at our ritual alone, it makes no distinction on the sexual orientation of the candidate. 

Grand Lodges that explicitly ban something like this are asinine. 


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## dfreybur (Dec 24, 2016)

There are no questions on the topic on the petitions in any of my jurisdictions.  No issue to me.  Even if informed I might forget as it's not an interesting topic to me.

Petition?  You said petition!  Now that's interesting.


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## vangoedenaam (Dec 25, 2016)

Its no problem in my country, The Netherlands. Just dont join in Tennessee


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## Elexir (Dec 25, 2016)

I dont understand why people should even care what sexual orientation or what skin color one has.


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## CLewey44 (Dec 25, 2016)

I think most fellas wouldn't care one bit.


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## flttrainer (Dec 25, 2016)

It wouldn't bother me a bit. I cannot remember a single time this conversation ever came up in my lodge. 


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## Bro. Stewart P.M. (Dec 26, 2016)

Until the question is clearly addressed on the Petition for Degrees (and shouldn't be), we as a Fraternity should really have no opinion in the matter.

If the candidate can answer all of the current questions correctly and honestly and meets the current qualifications, then there should be no reason to deny his receiving the degrees of Freemasonry. The days of hidden bigotry are long being exposed, it is a great time in our Fraternity to finally be living up to our own high standards and not double standards.


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## J. Earl (Dec 26, 2016)

I don't think it should be an issue. I wouldn't have a problem with it. 


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## Ripcord22A (Dec 27, 2016)

I have a man in my lodge now that is gay, no problem here.....but im gonna play devils advocate....do you consider homosexuality to be immoral? Because if you do then i think you would have to black ball him.....

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## coachn (Dec 27, 2016)

Ripcord22A said:


> I have a man in my lodge now that is gay, no problem here.....but im gonna play devils advocate....do you consider homosexuality to be immoral? Because if you do then i think you would have to black ball him.....


http://www.matthewvines.com/transcript/


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## CLewey44 (Dec 27, 2016)

Ripcord22A said:


> I have a man in my lodge now that is gay, no problem here.....but im gonna play devils advocate....do you consider homosexuality to be immoral? Because if you do then i think you would have to black ball him.....
> 
> Sent from my LG-H918 using My Freemasonry mobile app



I see your point but I think we sort of glaze over other issues that are 'immoral' and we allow those things. Is an overweight brother(not due to medical reasons) immoral because he's a glutton and eats fast food all the time and drinks Bud Heavy? A guy that dips, chews or smokes immoral? He's destroying his temple. Is someone that drinks immoral? Cusses a lot (military here and believe me I have to watch my language a lot) Eats shrimp or whatever? I think what's immoral is subjective. Heck, there's 'gay churches' that allow it so I would say they are under the impression they aren't being immoral. I don't think Masonry subscribes to strong conservative, evangelical views.  If it did, then being another religion alone would be considered 'immoral' and we all know that is not tolerated in lodge.


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## Elexir (Dec 27, 2016)

I would say that what is considerd sins are not really a question for freemasonry but is a religous idea that should be left at the door since no ones interpitation of a religous text should rank higher then any others.

I think when looking at morals there are more important things to look at then what people do in the bedroom.


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## Ripcord22A (Dec 27, 2016)

(Again just devils advocate here) being overweight doesnt mean ur glutton, maybe u just dont exercise.  Tobacco and alcohol use as long as its not in excess (doesnt cause undue strain on personal or professional relationships/life or financial well being...my definition) cussing? Other then not taking the Lords name in vain where does it say u cant cant cuss?

But you are right...morality is subjective.  There are alot of things that the Bible says is a sin that dont bother me then again there are things that it says can be forgiven that i dont agree with either....
Vote with your heart and for the good of freemasonry...

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## CLewey44 (Dec 27, 2016)

Ephesians 4:29, First Peter 3:10 and James 3: 9-12 in the Christian VSL say that. These could be interpreted however, again subjective. Who do you know that uses tobacco that doesn't use it in 'excess'? Spending $70 a week (that's only at one pack per day) on cigs in NY is pretty expensive and there is no way around it, tobacco and nicotine is bad for you.  And actually, your diet has everything to do with being overweight unless you have a medical problem. If you eat terrible and excessively, you can't exercise your self out of being overweight. Eating 3500 calories a day and then burning 200 off, you're still going to be overweight. Alcohol, if you can't go a weekend without drinking more than 2 or 3 drinks, you may be an alcoholic 'by definition' and that is physically damaging. I'm not judging anyone and  I think we're just arguing in circles here but the point is definitely subjective. 

My point is that what is an immoral lifestyle? Someone eating a lot or dipping Skoal doesn't bother me one bit because it doesn't effect me (other than insurance premiums going up due to bad life choices of others) and I would not vote down on them if they were a good guy and neither does a guy that's attracted to other dudes. Doesn't effect me one bit.  I'd hate to vote out a good addition to my lodge due to his personal preferences.


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## dfreybur (Dec 27, 2016)

Ripcord22A said:


> I have a man in my lodge now that is gay, no problem here.....



Given that gay folks are somewhere around 5-10% of the population nearly all lodges have gay Brothers.  We just have no idea which Brothers they are.

This teaches something interesting.  Knowing what we see at lodge about a guy we judge him good.  Yet he declines to discuss specific religious topics because that's a landmark.

Sometimes I write about learning religious tolerance with a story - We sit in lodge with Brother X for many years.  We work together at the annual fund raising breakfast and other events.  One day we're driving around and there's Brother X walking his family into the building of Religion Y to attend services.  All these years you knew Brother X to be a good guy but suddenly he's "one of *those* people".  One of our prejudices goes BOOM and we are better men for the experience.

Masonry is *supposed* to be an asylum from religious oppression and religious judgment.  Even an asylum against our own prejudices.  Who's the better man - The one who comes to Masonry knowing that and then judges, or the man who comes to Masonry and then remains silent?  Not an easy question to answer I hope.

Remember that we have adopted as kin members of every faith in the world, and that each faith has its own rules.  We knew that going in.  Simple does NOT equal easy!


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## Ripcord22A (Dec 27, 2016)

CLewey44 said:


> I think we're just arguing in circles here but the point is definitely subjective. .


Isnt that what all debates are?



CLewey44 said:


> My point is that what is an immoral lifestyle?.


Up to interpretation of the individual brother.  In Christianity most just say that that person will be damned to hell lest they repent.  In Muslim country's they stone or hang the "offenders" to death. Again up to interpretation.



CLewey44 said:


> a guy that's attracted to other dudes. I'd hate to vote out a good addition to my lodge due to his personal preferences.


And this is where it gets tricky.  My son knows what "gay" is.  My daughter has a friend who has 2 moms, she doesnt really understand it.  Theres even a cartoon now that has 2 dads.  But I dont want my kids seeing PDA. From straight or homosexual couples.  So in my opinion if the man applying presented himself as a respected man and acted as a man and kept his personal life personal, i would have no issue.  But m if that man tended to be more on the effeminate side and dressed as such and was always wanting to flaunt his sexuality then yeah id have a problem.  Even if it was a straight man that was always seen displaying gross displays of PDA, id have a problem.

As i said before there is a gay man in my lodge now.  i not only consider him my fraternal brother but also one of my great friends!


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## CLewey44 (Dec 27, 2016)

Ripcord22A said:


> Isnt that what all debates are?
> 
> 
> Up to interpretation of the individual brother.  In Christianity most just say that that person will be damned to hell lest they repent.  In Muslim country's they stone or hang the "offenders" to death. Again up to interpretation.
> ...



Fair enough. I wouldn't imagine that there are too many effeminate gay guys beating down the doors in the west trying to come hang out with a bunch of Masons. I don't think anyone would be comfortable with any person flaunting any sexuality if they walked in to petition a lodge and I don't think any gay man that would want to join would be that way. There are definitely standards. The guy I know, you' d "never know he was gay". He's a Marine. Hits the gym all the time etc. Drives a Jeep Wrangler if that paints a picture.   PDA between any two can be a little off putting and to be honest, I've never seen two guys kiss or anything in person(other than tv) so I wouldn't say there's really an issue there no more than straight people doing so.  I don't think there'll ever be a influx of effeminate or transgender or whatever guys trying to join.


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## RhushidaK (Dec 28, 2016)

CLewey44 said:


> Any thoughts on gay men being able to join Masonry? I know this topic has been hit on a lot but I work with a man that is gay and interested in Masonry. He's a Marine, upstanding guy but he is gay and has a partner. Would any of you object to allowing a gay man join?  Would you be comfortable in that situation?



I have no problem with gay brethren. After all, their personal lives are not upto us to judge. What we do need to see is that they're good men, and as many brethren here pointed out, good to their family (which in their case would be their gay partner).

If we start judging and black-balling candidates as per our own personal religious preferences, we'd be doing Freemasonry a disservice as we'd be imposing our religious ideals on it.

Blackballing a gay candidate for being gay is like a Christian brother blackballing a Muslim candidate for not believing Jesus as son of God, or a Hindu brother blackballing a Christian candidate for eating beef, or so on. As Freemasons, while we are not forced to follow the beliefs of our brethren, we are at the same time required to respect and honour our brethren's beliefs, without imposing our own beliefs on them.


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## CLewey44 (Dec 28, 2016)

RhushidaK said:


> I have no problem with gay brethren. After all, their personal lives are not upto us to judge. What we do need to see is that they're good men, and as many brethren here pointed out, good to their family (which in their case would be their gay partner).
> 
> If we start judging and black-balling candidates as per our own personal religious preferences, we'd be doing Freemasonry a disservice as we'd be imposing our religious ideals on it.
> 
> Blackballing a gay candidate for being gay is like a Christian brother blackballing a Muslim candidate for not believing Jesus as son of God, or a Hindu brother blackballing a Christian candidate for eating beef, or so on. As Freemasons, while we are not forced to follow the beliefs of our brethren, we are at the same time required to respect and honour our brethren's beliefs, without imposing our own beliefs on them.



Yes brother, that was exactly my point originally. You are spot on.


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## Brother JC (Dec 31, 2016)

The moment you start imposing your perception of morality in lodge you have broken the "no religion" rule. My church welcomes gays, regardless of some individual's interpretation and cherry-picking of millennia old laws.
Sexuality is not a question on the petition.


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## Bobby V (Dec 31, 2016)

Bigots view gay men as having an abnormal sexuality disorder. They then condemn this sexual disorder as characteristic of sexual predators. Gay or straight ... sexual predators should have no home in Masonry. As a Master Mason for over 42 years, I remember when petitions from men of color were as welcome as an ex's petition for an increase in alimony. Our great fraternity will weather this latest tempest. 

"There is only one good, knowledge; and one evil, ignorance." Seneca

Fairport-Flower City 476 F&AM (GLNY)
Valley of Dallas, Orient of Texas


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## Brother JC (Dec 31, 2016)

Ripcord22A said:


> I have a man in my lodge now that is gay, no problem here...



Not sure who you mean (and it doesn't matter) but I remember the first openly gay candidate Cerrillos had... there was a bit of fuss and a good bit of discussion. When the dust settled we Initiated him. I don't think anyone has really thought about it since. As it should be.


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## Ripcord22A (Dec 31, 2016)

Brother JC said:


> Not sure who you mean (and it doesn't matter) but I remember the first openly gay candidate Cerrillos had... there was a bit of fuss and a good bit of discussion. When the dust settled we Initiated him. I don't think anyone has really thought about it since. As it should be.


We arent speaking of the same man.  Im not sure who ur talking about but the one im speaking of is a transfer from another Grand Jurisdiction

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## samelevel (Dec 31, 2016)

Brother JC said:


> Not sure who you mean (and it doesn't matter) but I remember the first openly gay candidate Cerrillos had... there was a bit of fuss and a good bit of discussion. When the dust settled we Initiated him. I don't think anyone has really thought about it since. As it should be.



I'm wondering what happened to tolerance?


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## The Traveling Man (Dec 31, 2016)

Most Jurisdictions would have no problem with a gay man joining Masonry. I have met gay Masons, and have sat in Lodge with 1. His sexual preference does not determine his character.


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## Brother JC (Dec 31, 2016)

samelevel said:


> I'm wondering what happened to tolerance?



It won. As I said, the man is now a Brother.


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## dfreybur (Jan 1, 2017)

samelevel said:


> I'm wondering what happened to tolerance?



Tolerance is not agreement.  It is agreeing to disagree and moving on to other topics.

Tolerance is not acceptance of the actions.  It is acceptance that the person has value.

Tolerance wins, eventually.  As we are seeing across our lives.


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## Warrior1256 (Jan 2, 2017)

Elexir said:


> I dont understand why people should even care what sexual orientation or what skin color one has.


Same here.


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## Brother_Steve (Jan 11, 2017)

If Masonry is going to subject itself to biblical law, then any man who has been divorced, had sexual relations outside of marriage, ...shall I go on ... should be just as guilty as the gay man in their eyes and should be unfit for Masonry. I wonder how many Masons that are anti-gay would go poof if would could wave that magic wand?

I guess you did hit on a point though. Some men are not comfortable with themselves based on the preferences of others.. Therefore, a gay man in lodge would just make them constantly think, "oh my god, does he want to have sex with me?!" every time that individual spoke with them.

The problem isn't with the Gay man. It's with those in power who cannot get over the fact that they have these uncontrollable emotional knee-jerk reactions when a gay man might walk up to them to have a friendly conversation. The argument that it is breaking some moral law is just something tangible for them to hide behind. Nothing more in my opinion.


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## CLewey44 (Jan 11, 2017)

Brother_Steve said:


> If Masonry is going to subject itself to biblical law, then any man who has been divorced, had sexual relations outside of marriage, ...shall I go on ... should be just as guilty as the gay man in their eyes and should be unfit for Masonry. I wonder how many Masons that are anti-gay would go poof if would could wave that magic wand?
> 
> I guess you did hit on a point though. Some men are not comfortable with themselves based on the preferences of others.. Therefore, a gay man in lodge would just make them constantly think, "oh my god, does he want to have sex with me?!" every time that individual spoke with them.
> 
> The problem isn't with the Gay man. It's with those in power who cannot get over the fact that they have these uncontrollable emotional knee-jerk reactions when a gay man might walk up to them to have a friendly conversation. The argument that it is breaking some moral law is just something tangible for them to hide behind. Nothing more in my opinion.



I would have to say, a lack of humility and thoughts of self-grandeur may be involved if you think every gay man (or woman too if that's one reason why they aren't allowed to join) that walks up to you wants to have sex lol.


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## Brother_Steve (Jan 12, 2017)

CLewey44 said:


> I would have to say, a lack of humility and thoughts of self-grandeur may be involved if you think every gay man (or woman too if that's one reason why they aren't allowed to join) that walks up to you wants to have sex lol.


Homophobia is real. I am not homophobic, however those that are in a position to make sweeping decisions that affect thousands most likely ... are


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## Wesley Kierstead (Jan 12, 2017)

If he is found worthy by investigation committee he can join.  Period.  Sexual preference is not something that should be prohibitory.

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## Warrior1256 (Jan 12, 2017)

Wesley Kierstead said:


> If he is found worthy by investigation committee he can join.  Period.  Sexual preference is not something that should be prohibitory.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 6P using My Freemasonry mobile app


Agreed!


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## Blake Bowden (Jan 13, 2017)

Wesley Kierstead said:


> If he is found worthy by investigation committee he can join.  Period.  Sexual preference is not something that should be prohibitory.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 6P using My Freemasonry mobile app



Works for me.


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## zenotornado (Feb 7, 2017)

Why should it be a problem to be gay? In Germany it's no problem and if someone found his love I'm happy about it


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## CLewey44 (Feb 7, 2017)

Most people don't seem to mind. Others may just be uncomfortable with it due to religious views I think or they just aren't comfortable with it in general. As a matter of fact, statistically, there is likely at least one or two gay men in most lodges and the other fellas just don't know it since it is not apart of the screening process.


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## jermy Bell (Feb 15, 2017)

Don't ask, don't tell. Kinda like masonry.


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## BullDozer Harrell (Mar 30, 2017)

CLewey44 said:


> Any thoughts on gay men being able to join Masonry? I know this topic has been hit on a lot but I work with a man that is gay and interested in Masonry. He's a Marine, upstanding guy but he is gay and has a partner. Would any of you object to allowing a gay man join?  Would you be comfortable in that situation?


That would be an issue for the particular lodge whenever it comes before them to decide. If there's a silence in the law then it's open discussion for them to exercise their will & pleasure. 

Lodges are strange sometimes though. Just like the people who make up their membership. Rather than vote with their own hearts and mind, some guys just go with the flow. Supposedly 'to preserve peace & harmony within'. Yeah right.


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## Warrior1256 (Mar 30, 2017)

BullDozer Harrell said:


> Lodges are strange sometimes though. Just like the people who make up their membership. Rather than vote with their own hearts and mind, some guys just go with the flow. Supposedly 'to preserve peace & harmony within'. Yeah right.


Unfortunately true.


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## nobleadj (Jun 7, 2017)

I can't believe this is even being entertain.

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## Ripcord22A (Jun 7, 2017)

nobleadj said:


> I can't believe this is even being entertain.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using My Freemasonry


What dou mean?

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## Warrior1256 (Jun 7, 2017)

Ripcord22A said:


> What dou mean?


yeah, it could be taken two ways.


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## Keith C (Jun 7, 2017)

nobleadj said:


> I can't believe this is even being entertain.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using My Freemasonry



Welcome to the forum!   Quite an enigmatic first post.  Can you expand on your comment?  What is it you are tying to get across?  Several complete sentences explaining your position on the subject being discussed would be quite helpful to contribute to the conversation.


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## jermy Bell (Jun 8, 2017)

I don't find this to be a real issue.  Don't ask, don't tell, and don't flaunt it. Should be focusing on the men that are corrupting freemasonry, and bring dishonor to the fraternity.


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## Warrior1256 (Jun 8, 2017)

jermy Bell said:


> I don't find this to be a real issue. Don't ask, don't tell, and don't flaunt it. Should be focusing on the men that are corrupting freemasonry, and bring dishonor to the fraternity.


Good point.


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## Bloke (Jun 8, 2017)

nobleadj said:


> I can't believe this is even being entertain.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using My Freemasonry



Either way it's a dead end comment. Whether i and other readers agree with his view is irrelevant. His position seems fixed.


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## LK600 (Jun 9, 2017)

I personally am not joining this or any other group to espouse my, or any other members heterosexuality.  Nor would I be interested in seeing / hearing anyone else's homosexuality.  So, I'm not sure what someone's sexuality has to do with anything.  And lastly, let's not get into the "it's against my religious beliefs and is a sin" argument.  Being Christian myself, I would gladly explain how that argument doesn't support ostracizing a person for one sin while completely ignoring thousands more to fit your desires is worse.   A sin is a sin correct?  let's move on.


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## Warrior1256 (Jun 9, 2017)

LK600 said:


> I personally am not joining this or any other group to espouse my, or any other members heterosexuality. Nor would I be interested in seeing / hearing anyone else's homosexuality. So, I'm not sure what someone's sexuality has to do with anything.


Sounds good to me.


LK600 said:


> let's not get into the "it's against my religious beliefs and is a sin" argument. Being Christian myself, I would gladly explain how that argument doesn't support ostracizing a person for one sin while completely ignoring thousands more to fit your desires is worse.


Agreed!


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## RayverInColorado (Jun 11, 2017)

LK600 said:


> I personally am not joining this or any other group to espouse my, or any other members heterosexuality.  Nor would I be interested in seeing / hearing anyone else's homosexuality.  So, I'm not sure what someone's sexuality has to do with anything.  And lastly, let's not get into the "it's against my religious beliefs and is a sin" argument.  Being Christian myself, I would gladly explain how that argument doesn't support ostracizing a person for one sin while completely ignoring thousands more to fit your desires is worse.   A sin is a sin correct?  let's move on.



SMIB



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## PhoenixPelican99 (Jul 8, 2017)

Sexuality is the raw form of sensual and spiritual practices.  There are lodges that rely more heavily on "Christian Ways" than the original ways of mysticism. The mastery that Christ wielded.  It is long believed that Jesus had bisexual sensual relationships with his disciples and with Mary Magdalene.  It is probable that this balanced energy in his body allowed it to raise to such  level that he was then able to perform what seemed like "miracles". A man or woman's sensuality determines the level at which he or she attains self mastery.


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## Ripcord22A (Jul 8, 2017)

PhoenixPelican99 said:


> Sexuality is the raw form of sensual and spiritual practices.  There are lodges that rely more heavily on "Christian Ways" than the original ways of mysticism. The mastery that Christ wielded.  It is long believed that Jesus had bisexual sensual relationships with his disciples and with Mary Magdalene.  It is probable that this balanced energy in his body allowed it to raise to such  level that he was then able to perform what seemed like "miracles". A man or woman's sensuality determines the level at which he or she attains self mastery.


Wtf?  Seriously?

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## Warrior1256 (Jul 8, 2017)

Ripcord22A said:


> Wtf? Seriously?


Ditto!


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## Bro. Stewart P.M. (Jul 8, 2017)

PhoenixPelican99 said:


> Sexuality is the raw form of sensual and spiritual practices.  There are lodges that rely more heavily on "Christian Ways" than the original ways of mysticism. The mastery that Christ wielded.  It is long believed that Jesus had bisexual sensual relationships with his disciples and with Mary Magdalene.  It is probable that this balanced energy in his body allowed it to raise to such  level that he was then able to perform what seemed like "miracles". A man or woman's sensuality determines the level at which he or she attains self mastery.



There are going to be many of us here that would like to see this post/comment explained a bit better. I can personally see that it is already creating a stir.


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## Glen Cook (Jul 9, 2017)

PhoenixPelican99 said:


> Sexuality is the raw form of sensual and spiritual practices.  There are lodges that rely more heavily on "Christian Ways" than the original ways of mysticism. The mastery that Christ wielded.  It is long believed that Jesus had bisexual sensual relationships with his disciples and with Mary Magdalene.  It is probable that this balanced energy in his body allowed it to raise to such  level that he was then able to perform what seemed like "miracles". A man or woman's sensuality determines the level at which he or she attains self mastery.


I would be interested in a reference to Christ's supposed bisexuality.
There has long been a theme that he and Mary Magdalene were married, and even that the wedding in Caanan was his.


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## GKA (Jul 9, 2017)

PhoenixPelican99 said:


> Sexuality is the raw form of sensual and spiritual practices.  There are lodges that rely more heavily on "Christian Ways" than the original ways of mysticism. The mastery that Christ wielded.  It is long believed that Jesus had bisexual sensual relationships with his disciples and with Mary Magdalene.  It is probable that this balanced energy in his body allowed it to raise to such  level that he was then able to perform what seemed like "miracles". A man or woman's sensuality determines the level at which he or she attains self mastery.




You need to cite references when you make a comment like this


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## Warrior1256 (Jul 9, 2017)

GKA said:


> You need to cite references when you make a comment like this


Absolutely!!!


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## tldubb (Jul 9, 2017)

CLewey44 said:


> Any thoughts on gay men being able to join Masonry? I know this topic has been hit on a lot but I work with a man that is gay and interested in Masonry. He's a Marine, upstanding guy but he is gay and has a partner. Would any of you object to allowing a gay man join?  Would you be comfortable in that situation?



I wouldn't.


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## Ripcord22A (Jul 9, 2017)

tldubb said:


> I wouldn't.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using My Freemasonry mobile app


You wouldnt object to what part?

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## tldubb (Jul 9, 2017)

Ripcord22A said:


> You wouldnt object to what part?
> 
> Sent from my LG-H918 using My Freemasonry mobile app



Having a gay lodge brother or gay man petition a lodge. I'm heterosexual, but what business is it of anyone what two consenting adults do behind closed doors. 


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## Ripcord22A (Jul 9, 2017)

Just curious cause there were 2 questions that countered each other....but im with ya bro

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## Warrior1256 (Jul 10, 2017)

tldubb said:


> I'm heterosexual, but what business is it of anyone what two consenting adults do behind closed doors.


Same here.


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## Glen Cook (Jul 10, 2017)

tldubb said:


> Having a gay lodge brother or gay man petition a lodge. I'm heterosexual, but what business is it of anyone what two consenting adults do behind closed doors.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using My Freemasonry mobile app


Without addressing the underlying issue, but only the rationale---we do inquire as to what occurs behind closed doors.  Many jurisdictions limit the conduct between a Master Mason and another Master Mason's wife, even if consenting. I have seen a PGM suspended for just this conduct.


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## tldubb (Jul 10, 2017)

Glen Cook said:


> Without addressing the underlying issue, but only the rationale---we do inquire as to what occurs behind closed doors.  Many jurisdictions limit the conduct between a Master Mason and another Master Mason's wife, even if consenting. I have seen a PGM suspended for just this conduct.



Well, my answer was not to anything contrary to the Ob that we take. We only ask the constitutional questions that are required in my jurisdiction. Sleeping with another brothers wife, daughter..etc, is violation of you OB. So, to clarify I meant two consenting adults, that's not in violation of your OB.


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## LK600 (Jul 10, 2017)

PhoenixPelican99 said:


> Sexuality is the raw form of sensual and spiritual practices.  There are lodges that rely more heavily on "Christian Ways" than the original ways of mysticism. The mastery that Christ wielded.  It is long believed that Jesus had bisexual sensual relationships with his disciples and with Mary Magdalene.  It is probable that this balanced energy in his body allowed it to raise to such  level that he was then able to perform what seemed like "miracles". A man or woman's sensuality determines the level at which he or she attains self mastery.



Are you referring to Tantra and/or a path to the super-conscious? This school is very much Pagan in nature regardless what one or two Yogi's (and Dan Brown) will tell you.  I'm very interested in your thoughts behind your post.


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## Brother JC (Jul 10, 2017)

tldubb said:


> Sleeping with another brothers ...daughter...is violation of you OB.



Guess there are a lot of unmasonic marriages out there, then.


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## Keith C (Jul 10, 2017)

Brother JC said:


> Guess there are a lot of unmasonic marriages out there, then.



I was thinking the same thing.  My Son-in-Law was thinking about petitioning, if this is the case I better warn him off.


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## tldubb (Jul 10, 2017)

Keith C said:


> I was thinking the same thing.  My Son-in-Law was thinking about petitioning, if this is the case I better warn him off.



Lol


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## Warrior1256 (Jul 11, 2017)

Keith C said:


> I was thinking the same thing. My Son-in-Law was thinking about petitioning, if this is the case I better warn him off.


***snicker snicker***


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## MasterBulldawg (Jul 14, 2017)

CLewey44 said:


> Any thoughts on gay men being able to join Masonry? I know this topic has been hit on a lot but I work with a man that is gay and interested in Masonry. He's a Marine, upstanding guy but he is gay and has a partner. Would any of you object to allowing a gay man join?  Would you be comfortable in that situation?


I would say this is a issue that should be left up to the local Lodge unless there's a Grand Lodge rule or edict against it. But having said that it must also be pointed out that just because man meets the minimum qualifications to join the lodge doesn't mean he should automatically be admitted to Lodge. Freemasonry is not for everybody. 

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## CLewey44 (Jul 14, 2017)

MasterBulldawg said:


> I would say this is a issue that should be left up to the local Lodge unless there's a Grand Lodge rule or edict against it. But having said that it must also be pointed out that just because man meets the minimum qualifications to join the lodge doesn't mean he should automatically be admitted to Lodge. Freemasonry is not for everybody.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930P using My Freemasonry mobile app



I agree. I think if a person has poor character, zero class, bad person or whatever, they can definitely get black-balled. However, I don't think because someone is gay they should get black-balled. If they come in dressed like they've been at a rave all night, they probably would not be eligible to join. But if they respectfully visit our lodge, look presentable, I wouldn't even care one way or the other who he loved or was attracted to. I think if that is something that can get you black-balled or disqualified with joining, it should be on the petition. But then again, how can we expect to be accepted  if we are not accepting of others ourselves.  It is not for everyone and I have no reason to believe that overly effeminate, obnoxious, disrespectful gay men are beating down our lodge doors to join. Just as there are not douchey, obnoxious disrespectful straight guys doing the same. We expect our new members to be well rounded men that have respect for the institution. Now what they do outside of lodge, as long as it's lawful, is none of my concern whatsoever and Masonry would be delving too far into politics if they suddenly took a stance on the matter.


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## Warrior1256 (Jul 14, 2017)

MasterBulldawg said:


> But having said that it must also be pointed out that just because man meets the minimum qualifications to join the lodge doesn't mean he should automatically be admitted to Lodge. Freemasonry is not for everybody.


Totally agree. I just don't think that being gay in and of it's self should be a disqualifier.


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## MasterBulldawg (Jul 14, 2017)

Warrior1256 said:


> Totally agree. I just don't think that being gay in and of it's self should be a disqualifier.


I believe in having a strong Westgate if the local lodges do their job and protect the Westgate and only let in men that are worthey then things are fine. I'm tired of lodges taking the in men that meet the minimum qualifications and that have the cash in hand only to add members of the sake of adding to membership. It should be quality not quantity that matters. And if a gay man is found worthy then that is fine. But I do not agree that just because a man is gay he should automatically get a pass to join if he wants to because we do not want to look as if we're homophobic he should have to be held to the same standards as anybody else and be found worthy to join.

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## Bro. Stewart P.M. (Jul 14, 2017)

Just a reminder...

At least in the Grand Jurisdiction that I reside (Texas), the question of sexual relationship preference is NOT on the petition for election.

Until the subject becomes such an "issue" that it be included with the basic questions that include "crimes of moral turpitude", "belief in Higher Power", then we can not discriminate, dictate, nor discipline potential members or members relating to their bedroom behavior.

The larger question, do WE really want to pose this question upon petitions for election? Does being homosexual make a person truly unworthy as a person or Brother? In a time where we are all battling the "old guard" and pushing to remove walls and build bridges, this would certainly in my opinion force us two steps backwards as a Fraternity.


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## CLewey44 (Jul 14, 2017)

I don't think anyone is saying a gay man should get a pass on meeting requirements, brother. Quality over quantity? I couldn't agree more, sir.


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## MasterBulldawg (Jul 14, 2017)

CLewey44 said:


> I don't think anyone is saying a gay man should get a pass on meeting requirements, brother. Quality over quantity? I couldn't agree more, sir.


I'm not necessarily saying people are but in today's day and age and Society it seems like more and more they have to have a disqualification not to be accepted. Because if a person that is gay gets turned down for something in this case masonry and you don't have a big glaring disqualification then the critics are going holler that he was blackballed simply because he was gay. And that the institution of Freemasonry is homophobic.

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## CLewey44 (Jul 14, 2017)

MasterBulldawg said:


> I'm not necessarily saying people are but in today's day and age and Society it seems like more and more they have to have a disqualification not to be accepted. Because if a person that is gay gets turned down for something in this case masonry and you don't have a big glaring disqualification then the critics are going holler that he was blackballed simply because he was gay. And that the institution of Freemasonry is homophobic.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930P using My Freemasonry mobile app



Oh,  believe me I know what you're saying. We (not just Masons but everyone) overcorrects sometimes.


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## Warrior1256 (Jul 14, 2017)

MasterBulldawg said:


> But I do not agree that just because a man is gay he should automatically get a pass to join if he wants to because we do not want to look as if we're homophobic


Oh, absolutely! I most certainly am not advocating that being gay is an automatic qualifier for Freemasonry! I am simply saying that banning someone from Freemasonry simply because of their sexual orientation is wrong.


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## Center (Sep 2, 2017)

The fact of being "gay" is putting somebody in a box, after all this word meant being marry, happy. So basically not being kinda Bruce Willis in the movie Die Hard 1 or 2. Even the psychology says that there is a scale of being gay.  So  for instance in growing "gayness" order one fellow  can be less macho in the personal taste( ex like ballet etc), another one can have movements, voice more feminine that the man stereotype, another one can have had a dream, or  in secret curiosity to approach the same sex, another one has had an experience in the past in secret, another one could try to hit(or giving the feeling) the other associates or having kinda of narcisistic and dramatic feminine behaviours.  I think in a man association, ( I do not speak about ritual direct to the Freemasonry because I am not a direct member) the last 2 cases could generate some problem.  Said that  one of  two my favorite human beings was Gay: Plato! (The other one not : Diego Armando Maradona.)


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## Brother_Steve (Sep 3, 2017)

Ron White said it best. Everyone is gay. It's just establishing how gay they are. 

I won't link the video here, but there is some truth in comedy!


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## Bro. Stewart P.M. (Sep 3, 2017)

Old Discussion Topic. This Thread Closed.

Please start new discussion if there is need to do so.


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