# Diversity



## BroBook

How many brothers have at least one person in their lodge of a different ethic group or race? Just wondering.


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## Keith D. McKeever Jr.

Not in my lodge, but I have heard about a brother from another ethnic group in a Prince Hall Lodge


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## Bill Lins

My home Lodge is quite diverse.


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## Glen Cook

Yep.


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## Ripcord22A

Not in my mother lodge but in my home valley we are quite diverse.  In my adopted lodge here in NM we have a couple blacks, a middle eastern PM and of course a bunch of hispanics


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## Archangel Raised

I brought in a white brother to my all black blue lodge.  He is my bestie, kindred brother, and colleague.  He has worked in the bowels of South Los Angeles, and (jokingly) he is blacker than I.

I believe the future of PHA is to bring righteous, socially active and responsible brothers into the craft. . . no matter what their skin tonality.  PHA is dying (at least in southern California).  We need to work with other organizations to effect positive change.

. . .lets not forget the South Carolina shootings.

We are the black intelligentsia, be it black or white!


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## dfreybur

I'm currently a member of 5 blue lodges.  They range from so wildly diverse you'd end up dizzy trying to figure out who's from where through being able to check off more than two boxes on the list from the Census Bureau.

A lesson from Serbs, Croats and Bosnians - Ethnic also means religion.  That dimension of diversity is even wider if you have the years it takes to meet guys well away from our buildings to be willing to discuss religion with them.

Different lodge, different degree of diversity.  Some visible some not.

There is strength in diversity.  There is strength in unity.  Sometimes that both are equally true is one of those mysteries of the universe.  The we enter lodge, she the brothers dwell together in unity, remember that there are topics we never discuss, wonder at the fact that have have unity and diversity mixed together and hardly even notice it.


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## Archangel Raised

SMIB, Bro. Freyburger!


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## Glen Cook

BroBook said:


> How many brothers have at least one person in their lodge of a different ethic group or race? Just wondering.


Do you?


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## MRichard

My lodge is very diverse, perhaps one of the most diverse lodges under the Grand Lodge of Texas but I am not that familiar with other areas; in Houston, it is clearly the most diverse lodge in the area.


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## BroBook

Glen Cook said:


> Do you?


Yes, one brother of European descent and one Latino that I have met so far.


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## Bro. Staton

My lodge has a hispanic brother with a unique story. He was doing some work in Raleigh, NC and it was a convention (Grand Session) going on and he saw a bunch of Mason's.. So he went up to one of the brothers and asked how he could become one. Well jokingly someone said go up and ask that man over there and he did just that and he was instructed to come to our lodge. That person that he asked was Milton Toby Fitch Jr our Grand Master for North Carolina Prince Hall Masons. True story he didn't know who he was until he came to our lodge and we explained that you got directions from the big man himself. He is going to be a fine Mason so I am grateful to have him in our lodge and to call him my brother.


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## Ripcord22A

Thats pretty funny


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## AndreAshlar

We're a small lodge that lacks racial diversity.   We're about 20 strong.  One Cuban American and the rest are African American. 

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## Bloke

Gee... hard question. I will pick one lodge. Most are Australia Citizens or have PR, thinking on this, it mainly goes to their "ethnic/cultural" heritage and their first languages of the language of their parents which those members speak like natives..

Off the top of my head without looking at a list and quantifying it...

Spanish Speakers (From Mexico, Spain and South America) about 3
Filipinos about 5
Greek about 4
African 1
Turkish 2
Italian about 3
Eastern European 2 (Slav)
Macedonian 1
Indian 2
Chinese 1
Malta 1
Balance of about 20 guys are "British" and/or Australian. 

We don't describe Melbourne as a multicultural city for nothing. We have the Bible, Koran and a Buddhist text (not sure which one, the name is in Sanskrit) out as VSLs


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## Randy81

In my lodge it's almost all white. There is one Hispanic guy, myself, and one guy from Guam. For those who are PHA, I can tell you around military bases they're very diverse. Any PHA lodge I've seen in my career around the base have a good mix of everyone.


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## Brother JC

My Mother Lodge represents nearly every race and religion. I don't believe there is a follower of Shinto, but that's about it.


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## Dontrell Stroman

Something I've never understood, why was other races allowed to join regular GL and subordinate lodges but not Blacks ? Most say it's  in reference to "Being free born" but other races were slaves also. It's almost as if racism is primarily a black and white thing. I can go to the most rural area and they will admit a Hispanic, Asian, Native American, etc, but it will be more  resistance if a black man tries to join. Could someone answer this, not looking for a debate, just an honest answer.


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## AndreAshlar

Travelling Man91 said:


> Something I've never understood, why was other races allowed to join regular GL and subordinate lodges but not Blacks ? Most say it's  in reference to "Being free born" but other races were slaves also. It's almost as if racism is primarily a black and white thing. I can go to the most rural area and they will admit a Hispanic, Asian, Native American, etc, but it will be more  resistance if a black man tries to join. Could someone answer this, not looking for a debate, just an honest answer.


The history between blacks and whites in America is unique.  Only in the past 50 years has it been about anything other than slavery, dominance, control and Jim Crow servitude imposed on blacks by the white majority.  

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## Dontrell Stroman

AndreAshlar said:


> The history between blacks and whites in America is unique.  Only in the past 50 years has it been about anything other than slavery, dominance, control and Jim Crow servitude imposed on blacks by the white majority.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910T using My Freemasonry Pro mobile app


But again, why was other races allowed to join "white" GL and subordinate lodges, but not blacks ? If a black man was free born then why couldn't he join ?


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## AndreAshlar

Travelling Man91 said:


> But again, why was other races allowed to join "white" GL and subordinate lodges, but not blacks ? If a black man was free born then why couldn't he join ?


The answer lies in the history my brother

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## Dontrell Stroman

AndreAshlar said:


> The answer lies in the history my brother
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910T using My Freemasonry Pro mobile app


You get where I'm coming from though ? Other races where slaves also. Which would mean they would be descendeds of slaves too.


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## dfreybur

There isn't a person in the world who isn't descended from slaves across the majority of their family tree.   Before it became common to use beasts of burden in farming and before the metal needed for that became easy to acquire, slavery in various forms was a brutal economic necessity across the world.  People knew it was wrong but the alternative was widespread starvation.  Once there was enough metal to hold together tack for beasts of burden every form of slavery started being abolished country by country, continent by continent.

Only in the Americas was it about race and there only because serfdom was being abolished across Europe as the colonies were founded so slaves had to be imported from elsewhere.  Because slavery was also being abolished in Asia at the time the only source market was from Africa.  By the time slaves were shipped to the American colonies it was about profit motives not about starvation so of course the institution was doomed in the Americas as it was everywhere else.  The founding fathers of the United States knew this but they also knew they could not at that time pull off a ban that would pull the support of several colonies and result in the short of disunity seen in Europe with endless wars.  Waiting a century to ban slavery and that with a large war was the price paid by the founders, knowing the result would be fewer wars than occur in Europe to this day.

Knowing the facts of history is vastly different from getting it on any emotional level.


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## Dontrell Stroman

dfreybur said:


> There isn't a person in the world who isn't descended from slaves across the majority of their family tree.   Before it became common to use beasts of burden in farming and before the metal needed for that became easy to acquire, slavery in various forms was a brutal economic necessity across the world.  People knew it was wrong but the alternative was widespread starvation.  Once there was enough metal to hold together tack for beasts of burden every form of slavery started being abolished country by country, continent by continent.
> 
> Only in the Americas was it about race and there only because serfdom was being abolished across Europe as the colonies were founded so slaves had to be imported from elsewhere.  Because slavery was also being abolished in Asia at the time the only source market was from Africa.  By the time slaves were shipped to the American colonies it was about profit motives not about starvation so of course the institution was doomed in the Americas as it was everywhere else.  The founding fathers of the United States knew this but they also knew they could not at that time pull off a ban that would pull the support of several colonies and result in the short of disunity seen in Europe with endless wars.  Waiting a century to ban slavery and that with a large war was the price paid by the founders, knowing the result would be fewer wars than occur in Europe to this day.
> 
> Knowing the facts of history is vastly different from getting it on any emotional level.


Thank you for your thoughts and point big view. You stated that everyone in some point had slaves in their ancestry. So with that being said, how do GL get away with such statements against blacks "being freeborn" if everyone had slaves in their family tree ? And again why was other races allowed to join GL but not blacks ? That's why PH had to go the route he did.


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## Randy81

Travelling Man91 said:


> Thank you for your thoughts and point big view. You stated that everyone in some point had slaves in their ancestry. So with that being said, how do GL get away with such statements against blacks "being freeborn" if everyone had slaves in their family tree ? And again why was other races allowed to join GL but not blacks ? That's why PH had to go the route he did.


In my opinion, we have PHA for the same reason we have HBCs and predominantly African American Churches, etc. It's because of segregation and racism Brother. I'm not saying it's ok, but that's why. As to other races being able to join the GL, I don't have an answer. I think it also depends what region that you're in. What you see in the Southeast isn't what you'll see in the Northeast.


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## Dontrell Stroman

I know there are blacks in GL today, I was asking about the old days. Why could other races join during George Washington times, but a free black couldn't ?


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## Randy81

Travelling Man91 said:


> I know there are blacks in GL today, I was asking about the old days. Why could other races join during George Washington times, but a free black couldn't ?


I have no idea Brother, nor do I know of any demographic break downs of Masonry then.


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## Dontrell Stroman

Thanks for you insight. I just don't get the strong tension between blacks and whites. I guess it's because whites owning blacks was the last current form of slavery in the US.


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## Randy81

Travelling Man91 said:


> Thanks for you insight. I just don't get the strong tension between blacks and whites. I guess it's because whites owning blacks was the last current form of slavery in the US.


It could be because we sometimes have a false sense of security in the Army brother. We are all willing to fight and die for another regardless of race or religion. I'm right there with you.


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## Bloke

Travelling Man91 said:


> I know there are blacks in GL today, I was asking about the old days. Why could other races join during George Washington times, but a free black couldn't ?



Racism, pure and simple. Fortunately there is a conscious effort to change that... Just as pure and simple: racism is unmasonic....


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## Dontrell Stroman

When I think about this subject within freemasonry, I'm reminded of what a brother mason once told me.  He said "Not all good men are masons, and not all masons are good men."


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## MRichard

Travelling Man91 said:


> But again, why was other races allowed to join "white" GL and subordinate lodges, but not blacks ? If a black man was free born then why couldn't he join ?



Again, he can and has joined in other places; maybe not in TN (I don't know). If you had lived in the South, you already know the answer to this question. You can't really change anything by bring up race on a message board. They were a group of guys from both grand lodges in Texas that used to meet for lunch or whatever before visitation was allowed. They called themselves Bridge Builders or something to that effect.


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## Dontrell Stroman

MRichard said:


> Again, he can and has joined in other places; maybe not in TN (I don't know). If you had lived in the South, you already know the answer to this question. You can't really change anything by bring up race on a message board. They were a group of guys from both grand lodges that used to meet for lunch or whatever before visitation was allowed. They called themselves Bridge Builders or something to that effect.


 Interesting, Where would I find information out about the "bridge builders' ?


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## dfreybur

Randy81 said:


> It could be because we sometimes have a false sense of security in the Army brother. We are all willing to fight and die for another regardless of race or religion. I'm right there with you.



Which is the direct result of Past Grand Master Most Worshipful Harry Truman's Executive Order when he was President of the United Stated.  The order happened before I was born and by the time I was in not a single person in the US military remembered a time before unit level integration.

On the one hand all that is history that happened before I was born.  On the other hand there's a town I will not set foot in because it's not history yet there.  Knowing the history does not mean I'll ever get it.


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## acjohnson53

This a touchy topic, being that America as a whole still has a lot of work to do. But headed into the new milliniem we have improved in many areas for equality. todays generation stand up for each other....


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## Bill Lins

Travelling Man91 said:


> Interesting, Where would I find information out about the "bridge builders' ?


Check your PMs.


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## acjohnson53

We have a much more diverse society, or we tolerate each other...


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## PHAmily!

Travelling Man91 said:


> But again, why was other races allowed to join "white" GL and subordinate lodges, but not blacks ? If a black man was free born then why couldn't he join ?


RACISM its why there are historically black universities its why prince hall was started he was born a freeman but yet could not join that's why prince hall was started and to the one brother you knew prince hall was a historically black lodge WHEN YOU JOINED.


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## PHAmily!

SIMPLY put racism prince hall was born a  freeman but yet could not join. I was crossing with a Spanish guy but his wife talked him out of it.


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## PHAmily!

Travelling Man91 said:


> Thank you for your thoughts and point big view. You stated that everyone in some point had slaves in their ancestry. So with that being said, how do GL get away with such statements against blacks "being freeborn" if everyone had slaves in their family tree ? And again why was other races allowed to join GL but not blacks ? That's why PH had to go the route he did.


YOU GOT IT prince hall basically said you wont let me join ill do my OWN THANG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## MRichard

PHAmily! said:


> SIMPLY put racism prince hall was born a  freeman but yet could not join. I was crossing with a Spanish guy but his wife talked him out of it.



He did join. He was initiated, passed, and raised in British military lodge along with 13 or 14 others. He encountered problems when that lodge left the US.


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## Brother JC

Indeed, he became a Mason under the Grand Lodge of Ireland, then African Lodge was chartered by the Grand Lodge of England.
Please check your history before jumping on the old soapbox.


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## Dontrell Stroman

PHAmily! said:


> YOU GOT IT prince hall basically said you wont let me join ill do my OWN THANG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


That has always been my issue with GL'S and  brothers that claim PHA is clandestine due to multiple GL'S being in one state. What other option did PH have other than to form their own GL ?


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## Bloke

Travelling Man91 said:


> That has always been my issue with GL'S and  brothers that claim PHA is clandestine due to multiple GL'S being in one state. What other option did PH have other than to form their own GL ?



If there is one thing which is completely clear about Prince Hall, is that the record shows he was regularly initiated.  The irony of the whole emergence of the Prince Hall System was it was born because that Irish Lodge which initiated him thought he was a man worthy of Freemasonry.

I applaud by Black Brethren for doing their own thing - every Grand Lodge was formed doing exactly that... I forgive the (white) men who stood in his way. I'm pleased that PH GL's who keep the landmarks are now in Amity with most GLs. Being of white skin is not a Landmark of Freemasonry, equality is.


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## Dontrell Stroman

Bloke said:


> If there is one thing which is completely clear about Prince Hall, is that the record shows he was regularly initiated.  The irony of the whole emergence of the Prince Hall System was it was born because that Irish Lodge which initiated him thought he was a man worthy of Freemasonry.
> 
> I applaud by Black Brethren for doing their own thing - every Grand Lodge was formed doing exactly that... I forgive the (white) men who stood in his way. I'm pleased that PH GL's who keep the landmarks are now in Amity with most GLs. Being of white skin is not a Landmark of Freemasonry, equality is.


Well said my brother. A lot your southern jurisdictions (PHA) that keep the ancient landmarks are not in Amity with their counterparts, but like I've heard so many times "times are changing" I hope to see that change in my life time. I'm still young so I pray I  see that change before the good Lord calls me home.


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## Dontrell Stroman

I will say this for the record though, you'd be surprised how many brothers are against the "way it is". Both GL brothers and PHA. I have met some really good GL brothers  that would have given their shirt off their back to help me and same for me. It's up to the individual mason to decide whether he agrees with the way things are. I was anti segregation before I became a freemason and I will be that way until I die. It took me awhile to understand why more brothers aren't speaking up against it. Some are afraid of being black balled and some understand that they have a better chance of changing it from within by staying under the radar.


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## Bloke

Imagining... one of the problems would be, and it remains today, is there a difference between "equality", "human rights" and "politics"? If non-political intervention and even prohibition on political discussion is a landmark (which I think *is* a good thing because we look for unity not division in freemasonry) , and something like segregation (to pick an issue) is being couched in politics, where does that leave lodges and Freemasonry ? I can understand something like the Grand Orient of Italy fighting the Papal States in the 1800's because the issues were not just political, they were seen as ones of human rights and Freedom. We all know the answer I guess, we need to act as individuals and keep Freemasonry the hell out of politics, and politics the hell out of Freemasonry, but our values of freedom and equality are guiding principles and when something like racism arises, it needs to be addressed in lodges, regardless of what's happening in the wider world because not to do so makes us hypocrites, but not also acting in the outside world, perhaps that also makes us hypocrites ? A toughie... But again, we come back to the truth that Freemasons should be able to hold and act on their individual political views, but just can't espouse them in a lodge or under the banner of Freemasonry because (regular) freemasonry is a-political. Look through a list of Famous Freemasons to see the diversity that proves this..

I'm hardly a political activist, but I certainly have been a social one... the visible absence of Freemasonry in social reform makes me wonder sometimes, but by the same token the values we share must drive some great men to affect change.. I guess Freemasonry can only do what it does - support the disadvantaged and needy through charity. Some might call that benevolence, some might call it charity, but another might couch it in some form of political terms rather than how we do - charity, benevolence and  justice.

I always go back to the virtues, prudence, temperance, fortitude and justice being the cardinal, and the theological, faith, hope and charity (the latter not just being about $$$ but also charity of spirit). I always end up on Faith, Faith that all will be well because despite the problems I perceive, it's all in God's hands, but I always like to know where I'm supposed to give His work a nudge...

Back to Prince Hall, one of the issues for the men in of the day was that Colour was not even seen in terms of race for some, it was seen as an issue of Human and Sub-human, where some would even debate if Africans had a soul.... We (fortunately) completely reject such thinking today .... Fortunately we are more enlightened now, but that needs to be reflected in our conduct of today. It's why lodges I an in are so "diverse", I dont even see them as such - just full men who happen to be from difference places and sociological origins and who speak different languages..


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## MRichard

Travelling Man91 said:


> Well said my brother. A lot your southern jurisdictions (PHA) that keep the ancient landmarks are not in Amity with their counterparts, but like I've heard so many times "times are changing" I hope to see that change in my life time. I'm still young so I pray I  see that change before the good Lord calls me home.



Since each grand lodge is sovereign, they can decide which landmarks to use to some degree.


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## Mel Knight

My lodge is very diverse I Love It


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## Glen Cook

Travelling Man91 said:


> Well said my brother. A lot your southern jurisdictions (PHA) that keep the ancient landmarks are not in Amity with their counterparts, but like I've heard so many times "times are changing" I hope to see that change in my life time. I'm still young so I pray I  see that change before the good Lord calls me home.


They have changed.  Not fast enough, but they have and will continue to do so. There was a time when none of the Southern GLs recognized the PHA counterparts.


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## acjohnson53

But in Prince Hall Masonry there is a lot diversity within the Lodges....


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## Bill Lins

AndreAshlar said:


> We're a small lodge that lacks racial diversity.   We're about 20 strong.  One Cuban American and the rest are African American.


Apparently not all of them.


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## AndreAshlar

The lack of diversity in my lodge is driven by the fact that those who've knocked have been an almost racially monolithic group. My jurisdiction is much more diverse than what's reflected in my lodge.


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## acjohnson53

I've visited Lodges that were well diversed..


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## Dontrell Stroman

acjohnson53 said:


> I've visited Lodges that were well diversed..


What do you consider diverse ?


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## acjohnson53

Multicultural...


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## Dontrell Stroman

Good answer

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## PHAmily!

I have freind that spotted a mason. The mason was a white guy my friend black he was told to go prince hall was this Racist? Any thoughts!


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## Dontrell Stroman

The "white" brother might have saved him some head ache. I would say,  if the brother knew he had no chance of getting in, he done the right thing by directing him to a lodge that would accept him and make him feel welcome. Nothing wrong with that. I have lead brothers to different lodges as well. Not based on race but personality and culture.


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## Bloke

I'm working hard to try to support a couple of military lodges here, but I've never been in the military. I support these lodges because of the important traditions they hold and their rich history. Prince Hall is kind of the same, it has a rich and distinct history which will only live on if it has members... me, I'd send brothers where they were needed.


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## Dontrell Stroman

Bloke said:


> I'm working hard to try to support a couple of military lodges here, but I've never been in the military. I support these lodges because of the important traditions they hold and their rich history. Prince Hall is kind of the same, it has a rich and distinct history which will only live on if it has members... me, I'd send brothers where they were needed.


You are in Australia right brother Bloke ? It is my understanding that the only military lodges in the US are PHA lodges due to the fact that they do not discriminate. I don't know how true this is though. Being in the military myself and talking with brothers that serve as well, this is what I have always heard.


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## Bloke

Hi Travelling Man. Yep, Australia 

There will be heaps of Military lodges outside PH. When I use the term, I am referring to lodges like Commando Memorial (warrant gone) Naval and Military, Army Lodge, Victoria Cross Lodge etc etc who have members of the military and preserve military history and traditions... If you are using the term "military lodge" to mean a traveling warrant where meetings are held on base by members of the military, you may or may not be right, I do not know.


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## Dontrell Stroman

Bloke said:


> Hi Travelling Man. Yep, Australia
> 
> There will be heaps of Military lodges outside PH. When I use the term, I am referring to lodges like Commando Memorial (warrant gone) Naval and Military, Army Lodge, Victoria Cross Lodge etc etc who have members of the military and preserve military history and traditions... If you are using the term "military lodge" to mean a traveling warrant where meetings are held on base by members of the military, you may or may not be right, I do not know.


Gotcha brother. That makes sense. I've always thought it was referring to actual lodge building on a base


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## Bloke

Travelling Man91 said:


> Gotcha brother. That makes sense. I've always thought it was referring to actual lodge building on a base



It might, but not how we use the term here....


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## Dontrell Stroman

Bloke said:


> It might, but not how we use the term here....


Is PHA over in Austrailia ? If so how is the relationship between GL and them ?


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## Bloke

Travelling Man91 said:


> Is PHA over in Austrailia ? If so how is the relationship between GL and them ?



There is no such thing as Prince Hall Lodges in Australia. It is a United States of America phenomenon.

As to who UGLV is amity with , I'm not sure. I know we have got Amity with some, but a GL writes to another GL requesting recognition and I doubt many PH GL's have bothered to write to us, but could be wrong....

There are a couple of parallels here though of "others/outsiders" in early Australian Freemasonry
1. Chinese
2 Convicts

Chinese, like in California, came for Gold. Sadly there were anti-chinese laws which evolved to become the "white australia policy". That said, the earlist known Australian Freemason of Chinese origin admitted into regular Freemasonry is:

Ø  Mei Quong Tart (Mei Guangda) (1850–1903), philanthropist, first Chinese Initiate in Australia in 1885 “was one of Sydney’s most famous philanthropists and well-loved personalities” initiated into the Lodge of Tranquility in 1885.

Source and others here http://www.lodgedevotion.net/devoti...nd-famous-australian-freemasons#_Toc439263598

The others are convicts. Not in the sense Americans use this word but as we do - men transported to Australia after being convicted in British Courts. When freed or pardoned, the became "ticket of leave" men or "Emancipists". Some were convicted of petty  crimes, some were political prisoners, some guilty of bad deeds. Some were Freemasons before or became so after transportation. Some became leaders of note in Australia, even according state funerals . It's a very interesting topic....

See here for a description of some:
http://www.lodgedevotion.net/devoti...nd-famous-australian-freemasons#_Toc439263599


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## Dontrell Stroman

Bloke said:


> There is no such thing as Prince Hall Lodges in Australia. It is a United States of America phenomenon.
> 
> As to who UGLV is amity with , I'm not sure. I know we have got Amity with some, but a GL writes to another GL requesting recognition and I doubt many PH GL's have bothered to write to us, but could be wrong....
> 
> There are a couple of parallels here though of "others/outsiders" in early Australian Freemasonry
> 1. Chinese
> 2 Convicts
> 
> Chinese, like in California, came for Gold. Sadly there were anti-chinese laws which evolved to become the "white australia policy". That said, the earlist known Australian Freemason of Chinese origin admitted into regular Freemasonry is:
> 
> Ø  Mei Quong Tart (Mei Guangda) (1850–1903), philanthropist, first Chinese Initiate in Australia in 1885 “was one of Sydney’s most famous philanthropists and well-loved personalities” initiated into the Lodge of Tranquility in 1885.
> 
> Source and others here http://www.lodgedevotion.net/devoti...nd-famous-australian-freemasons#_Toc439263598
> 
> The others are convicts. Not in the sense Americans use this word but as we do - men transported to Australia after being convicted in British Courts. When freed or pardoned, the became "ticket of leave" men or "Emancipists". Some were convicted of petty  crimes, some were political prisoners, some guilty of bad deeds. Some were Freemasons before or became so after transportation. Some became leaders of note in Australia, even according state funerals . It's a very interesting topic....
> 
> See here for a description of some:
> http://www.lodgedevotion.net/devoti...nd-famous-australian-freemasons#_Toc439263599


Since there are no PHA lodges, I'm guessing lodges in Australia are full of men of different races ?


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## Bloke

Disclaimer - I'm Australian, and don't really care what colour your skin is, this can get me into trouble as is the fact I never talk about "black people", but is seems a useful term here. In Melbourne, if someone said "I'm black" I would automatically think Indegenous Australian, and African and African is diaspora would not really enter my mind...  This is how Australians can get themselves into trouble in this area... we just don't think like Americans on this issue... not the poster of the vid even explains it at the beginning.. comment is at 1 min 21 secs, poor Bert...








Travelling Man91 said:


> Since there are no PHA lodges, I'm guessing lodges in Australia are full of men of different races ?



Sort of. A fair few Asians, Italians and other 'Mediterranean" types (there is actually a Greek and an Italian Lodge  - but more a theme than just men from just those nations). Indians in Melbourne would vastly out-number the  'traditional" (black) people who would join Prince Hall lodges.

Interesting, I just watched the below and could see two Maori, two Mauritians, one Indian in the team. Looking at it, I'm thinking it's diverse but five guys is not that many, then I realised, we often define "Australianness" by how you speak.. and there is a lot of accents in that team ... 

Just checked wikipedia here which says "Large-scale immigration from Africa to Australia is only a recent phenomenon, with Europe and Asia traditionally being the largest sources of migration to Australia.' That's certainly what I thought - I can only think of three black Africans in our lodges, all those guys have been here less than 20 years and still carrying African accents. I can could the number of African Americans I've met here on one hand using three fingers.. Significant only because PH traditionally drew from an African American population - we simply seem not to have much of a population,... (I've just spent about 15 minutes looking at "the facts" on this... )

You can see on of our Grand Teams here


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## Dontrell Stroman




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## Ripcord22A

there is a military lodge in Orgon that only admits men that have or are serving in the military.


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## Glen Cook

jdmadsenCraterlake211 said:


> there is a military lodge in Orgon that only admits men that have or are serving in the military.


Which one?


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## Ripcord22A

Glen Cook said:


> Which one?


Oregon Military Lodge #223....Ive never attended I just remember seeing a flyer for it on the bulliten board in Klamath #77.  When I asked about it I was told that of course any MM could attend but the members were former or current military only.


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## dfreybur

jdmadsenCraterlake211 said:


> there is a military lodge in Orgon that only admits men that have or are serving in the military.



I take it they are very open about not accepting petitions from those who never served.

It used to be traditional that career types or nationalities gathered in specific lodges.  It's a tradition that is far more rare than it once was.  Police/fireman lodges, lodges of Arab immigrants, you name it.


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## Brother JC

They are still common outside the US. Several new ones have sprung up in England in the past year or so. (Sport specific and motorcycle enthusiast based come to mind.)


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## Warrior1256

dfreybur said:


> I take it they are very open about not accepting petitions from those who never served.
> 
> It used to be traditional that career types or nationalities gathered in specific lodges.  It's a tradition that is far more rare than it once was.  Police/fireman lodges, lodges of Arab immigrants, you name it.





Brother JC said:


> They are still common outside the US. Several new ones have sprung up in England in the past year or so. (Sport specific and motorcycle enthusiast based come to mind.)


Very interesting! Did not know this.


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## acjohnson53

Sounds like a form of discrimination to me...


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## Ripcord22A

acjohnson53 said:


> Sounds like a form of discrimination to me...


 Really?  how do you figure?  every brother can attend thier meetings just cant be a member.

with your line of thinking the fact that we dont allow fellons to join the craft then we are discriminating against them.


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## Bloke

Brother JC said:


> They are still common outside the US. Several new ones have sprung up in England in the past year or so. (Sport specific and motorcycle enthusiast based come to mind.)



Are they themed that way or do they really only admit folk who, say ride bikes ? For instance, here, we have a "youth lodge" and while focused on that, it has several members over 50 and a one over 70.


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## acjohnson53

um, with my line of thinking I try not to this about a whole lotta stuff, easier that way...


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## Brother JC

If I remember the article correctly, the Brothers all ride together, tour the islands and Europe, visit lodges.


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## Randy81

That's odd that they'd only admit military guys. Especially in Oregon where there is no major bases to my knowledge. Well, Army anyways.


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## Warrior1256

acjohnson53 said:


> Sounds like a form of discrimination to me...


Looking at it this way it could be said that all of us discriminate because we do not allow women to join.


jdmadsenCraterlake211 said:


> Really?  how do you figure?  every brother can attend thier meetings just cant be a member.
> 
> with your line of thinking the fact that we dont allow fellons to join the craft then we are discriminating against them.


I agree.  All organizations have qualifications and restrictions on membership. No one is eligible to belong to all organizations.


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## Ripcord22A

Randy81 said:


> That's odd that they'd only admit military guys. Especially in Oregon where there is no major bases to my knowledge. Well, Army anyways.


there are 331,632 vets living in oregon as of Oct 2014.  That s8% of the population.  I dont know about other states but that seems like a lot. Ive never lived in a more military friendly area then Oregon.


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## acjohnson53

So true


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## Randy81

jdmadsenCraterlake211 said:


> there are 331,632 vets living in oregon as of Oct 2014.  That s8% of the population.  I dont know about other states but that seems like a lot. Ive never lived in a more military friendly area then Oregon.


I was speaking more along the lines of still serving. I've never been to Oregon so I can't speak on it. Still seems odd to me... Why not join soujorners? I enjoy having a blend in my lodge.


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## Glen Cook

Randy81 said:


> I was speaking more along the lines of still serving. I've never been to Oregon so I can't speak on it. Still seems odd to me... Why not join soujorners? I enjoy having a blend in my lodge.


Junior enlisted don't currently qualify for Sojourners.

In England a Rugby lodge was just consecrated.  I belonged to an emergency services lodge in England. Affinity lodges aren't new.


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## Bloke

Glen Cook said:


> Affinity lodges aren't new.



Examples here include Teachers, Actors, Military, Jews, Youth, Italian, Germans, Greek, Musicians... even Lodge Philatelic # 552 (merged but later handed in warrant in 1985)

"OBITUARY. MR. S. ORLO-SMITH: Mr. S. Orlo-Smith, a leading figure in Masonic and philatelic circles, died in Melbourne on Wednesday. He was a past master and founding master of the first philatelic lodge in the world, as well as past master of the Surrey Hills (Victoria) lodge."

Above from this link here. Interesting, must look into that as I was in the suburb of Surrey Hills last night and know something of its masonic connections but has not heard of that one


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## Brother JC

Glen Cook said:


> In England a Rugby lodge was just consecrated.


I was thinking it was a rugby lodge but couldn't remember for certain.


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## Glen Cook

Brother JC said:


> I was thinking it was a rugby lodge but couldn't remember for certain.


http://eastkentfreemasons.org/a-new-lodge-is-consecrated/


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## acjohnson53

Sending Prayers from California......


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## acjohnson53

Sending Prayers and Condolences to the Family from California...


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