# Are you a Born Again Fundamentalist Freemason?



## Todd M. Stewart (Oct 23, 2019)

Having only recently discovered the work of MWB Dwight L. Smith, my first though was 'How is it I have been a MM for 13 years and not discovered this before?  My second was 'I appear to be very much a 'Fundamentalist Freemason.'  "Whither are we Traveling" and "Why This Confusion at the Temple", two essays over  55 years old and yet still speaking so directly to the struggles Freemasonry faces today.  Smith’s universal answer to the problems of Freemasonry as an institution was to “Try Freemasonry.” That is, return the fraternity to its most basic tenets, strip it of its innovations, and get back to the business of concentrating on making men better ones, one Mason at a time.  Some stark questions come to mind that I will not enumerate here, but leave for discussion.  In addition I found an interesting essay from 2004 entitled, "Laudable Pursuit: A 21st Century Response to Dwight Smith" from the Knights of the North. An effective recapitulation of brother Smith's works in a modern context.  From the introduction: 

"We are poised on a ledge, and can either fall into oblivion, or turn around and head a direction different from the one we are going. Not to become just another service club, like Lions or Kiwanis. Not to become more like the “animal” fraternities by turning our Lodges into bars and billiard halls. Not to become crass, noisy, self-aggrandizing back-patters for our charities."

Brutal honesty?  In this brother's humble opinion, yes.  What say ye?  Are you a Born Again Fundamentalist Freemason?  I have attached Bro. Smith's essays as well as Laudable Pursuit


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## Winter (Oct 23, 2019)

I used to speak at length to my Lodge on those papers and they served as impetus when we formed our EC Lodge.  I am glad Brothers are still discovering them and finding inspiration from them. But saddened that they are still relevant so many decades later as we have not learned the lessons within. 

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## Winter (Oct 23, 2019)

Of course you are going to get blank looks when you ask Brothers questions that have nothing to do with the centuries old traditions Brothers have been raised in.  Its great you study deeper.  But you can't apply standards to Brothers that haven't been part of Freemasonry for 300 years.  To do so is rather arrogant, as if only you practice the "real" Masonic work.  Freemasonry is today exactly what we tell our initiates it is. A system of morality, veiled by allegory, and taught by symbols. It is no longer, if it ever was, a practical system of science. Brothers absolutley should go deeper in the hidden mysteries if they feel the desire to. But it is no longer the litmus for what constitutes a "good" Freemason. That you would question Brothers about the historical aspects of Freemasonry and imply they are lacking because they can't answer your questions is improper to say the least. We are what we are now. Not what well meaning modern psuedo mystics want us to be. 

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## Brother_Steve (Oct 24, 2019)

JamestheJust said:


> Personally I think that Freemasonry took a wrong turn in 1717.  After that did any lodges teach Masonic Science, based as it is upon the spiritual sciences of old?
> 
> Within a generation, the identity of the Blazing Star had been lost.
> 
> ...


Some would say mystery (singular) which changes the meaning slightly.


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## coachn (Oct 25, 2019)

JustJames said:
			
		

> Personally I think that Freemasonry took a wrong turn in 1717.


Which is truly difficult to do since that's about the year when Freemasonry as we know it came into being.


			
				JustJames said:
			
		

> After that did any lodges teach Masonic Science, ...


<sigh> What is this thing you call _Masonic Science?_


			
				JustJames said:
			
		

> ...based as it is upon the spiritual sciences of old?


What do you mean by _spiritial science of old_?


			
				JustJames said:
			
		

> Within a generation, the identity of the Blazing Star had been lost.


<chuckle> Do you actually know the history as to when the "Blazing Star" was originally introduced into Freemasonic Ritual?


			
				JustJames said:
			
		

> So Freemasonry became a semi-public institution promoting morality and brotherly love - the work of the EA.


This, assuming that it was not this way from its very beginnings.


			
				JustJames said:
			
		

> Where were the lodges teaching the work of the FC - the hidden mysteries of nature and science?


They weren't teaching the FC Work. 

Just because ritual tells members it's valuable to learn doesn't mean the lodges ever implemented an actual institutionalized teaching program.  Self-study appears to be the only way to learn what is pointed toward by ritual, unless you actually attend a school that teaches these concepts.


			
				JustJames said:
			
		

> Some of that was taken up by the SRIA and its descendants, but it was not taught by any lodge of which I have heard.


Is the SRIA an actual Freemasonic Order?


			
				JustJames said:
			
		

> And where is the work of the MM taught?


Please describe this _MM Work_ so we know what you are asking.


			
				JustJames said:
			
		

> I have asked many senior brethren including 33rd, what is the work of a lodge of MMs when all are properly trained in the ritual and there are no candidates in sight?


Do you differentiate the _work of the Freemasonic lodge_ from the _MM Work?  _Are they the same? How do they differ?


			
				JustJames said:
			
		

> Not one brother could tell me.     And yet the answer is given in the EA TB where we are told that a Freemason's lodge extends from E to W and N to S and from the center of the Earth to the Heavens.


Yeah, lofty _description of the lodge_... _but what is the MM Work?_


			
				JustJames said:
			
		

> The task of management of that huge temple has been largely ignored for some centuries but at last the current generation of school children has taken up the task.


So, for you the word "lodge" means _building/temple_ and not _the men who constitute the members who meet in that building/temple?_


			
				JustJames said:
			
		

> What then  is the future of Freemasonry?  I rather think we must await a green fields replacement.


It'll continue to be what it is; perfect for what it does: _An Introduction to Masonry... but not Masonry itself._


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## Elexir (Oct 19, 2020)

I think one of the reasons is that the word science in the 20th century has gotten more of link to natural science rather then humanities. Natural science in itself dont concern itself with morality.

Neuro-linguistic programming has it orgins of neuro-science and is not a science but rather an applikation of science.


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## Winter (Oct 21, 2020)

JamestheJust said:


> The core of a science is being able to produce great results from small efforts.
> A _science _of morality needs to be concealed so that the unworthy do not manipulate the moral values of others - e.g. when entering into an agreement.
> _Systems_ of morality need not be veiled - unless they are illegal.
> Here is a reference to a science of morality:
> ...



You assert that Freemasonry is a "science" which doesn't always work even if we are directed to study the arts and sciences.  Our Order is not, itself, a science.  Science ≠ Morality.

https://www.npr.org/sections/13.7/2010/05/04/126504492/you-can-t-derive-ought-from-is


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## Elexir (Oct 22, 2020)

No the core of any science is to produce results wich can be tested and verified.
Sciences are never concealed but rather they are pretty straightforward and precise wich is why scientist sometimes seem to be speaking another laungage.
For exampke I currently study computer science and words that I found a bit esoteric before makes a lot more sense now and they are better and more precise to pin-point excatly what is going on than simpler words. It should also be noted that in computer science small results where took great effort.

The systems of morality is not conceld due to legality but rather to force you to pick it apart and examine how you can use it in your life.


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## Elexir (Oct 24, 2020)

JamestheJust said:


> >Sciences are never concealed
> 
> Except for new weaponry and by scientists waiting to publish and by those working in areas contrary to the standard scientific beliefs e.g. scalar fields, and by alchemists and by those working on human cloning,  and time travel etc



That has nothing to do with science though but rather with legal and security concerns. Let seperate the two. Scientist that are enployed are bound by contracts.
Scientists keeping information secret until they get published is not about conceling but rather that scientists tend to aviod publishing unfinished material as it serves no purpose. Most scientific texts that are published serve to either prove or disprove a hypotesis and in order for that to work the text must be complete before publishing.


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## Bloke (Oct 25, 2020)

Todd M. Stewart said:


> Having only recently discovered the work of MWB Dwight L. Smith, my first though was 'How is it I have been a MM for 13 years and not discovered this before?  My second was 'I appear to be very much a 'Fundamentalist Freemason.'  "Whither are we Traveling" and "Why This Confusion at the Temple", two essays over  55 years old and yet still speaking so directly to the struggles Freemasonry faces today.  Smith’s universal answer to the problems of Freemasonry as an institution was to “Try Freemasonry.” That is, return the fraternity to its most basic tenets, strip it of its innovations, and get back to the business of concentrating on making men better ones, one Mason at a time.  Some stark questions come to mind that I will not enumerate here, but leave for discussion.  In addition I found an interesting essay from 2004 entitled, "Laudable Pursuit: A 21st Century Response to Dwight Smith" from the Knights of the North. An effective recapitulation of brother Smith's works in a modern context.  From the introduction:
> 
> "We are poised on a ledge, and can either fall into oblivion, or turn around and head a direction different from the one we are going. Not to become just another service club, like Lions or Kiwanis. Not to become more like the “animal” fraternities by turning our Lodges into bars and billiard halls. Not to become crass, noisy, self-aggrandizing back-patters for our charities."
> 
> Brutal honesty?  In this brother's humble opinion, yes.  What say ye?  Are you a Born Again Fundamentalist Freemason?  I have attached Bro. Smith's essays as well as Laudable Pursuit


Hi Bro Todd

I suggest you have a look at the longer version of Wither are we Traveling

https://www.freemasonry.bcy.ca/aqc/whither_are_we_travelling_aqc.pdf


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## Todd M. Stewart (Oct 28, 2020)

Bloke said:


> Hi Bro Todd
> 
> I suggest you have a look at the longer version of Wither are we Traveling
> 
> https://www.freemasonry.bcy.ca/aqc/whither_are_we_travelling_aqc.pdf


Thank you brother!


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