# Freemasons commercialized and profiting?



## VinnyC (Aug 19, 2010)

I was on you tube looking around and I decided to type in Freemason.  One of the videos came on and it was a Rap song about Freemasons and it was titled that.  I also have seen pictures of younger Freemasons taking pictures as if it was a gang.  I am not a Freemason just yet.  But, how do you guys feel about people "commercializing" Freemasons and profiting from it?


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## JTM (Aug 19, 2010)

sounds fine.


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## HKTidwell (Aug 19, 2010)

There are alot of things on the internet, without seeing the video I'd prefer not to comment on it.  

I'll use this link as an example.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4oFeKJKoaKc - by Howie Damon
I have no issue with this and if he makes money to recoup his cost and also makes some money off of it I have no issue.  This reflects Masonry in a positive light and personally I think it will help with growth.  

However if the sole purpose of somebodies actions is self gratification and profit, I would have an issue with it.  I also would highly doubt that person was a mason.  As I mentioned in another thread I don't wear anything masonic when I'm doing political or business activities or anything that could be conscrewed as a either of those activities.


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## VinnyC (Aug 19, 2010)

Here is the link

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kw8SyaFXOqw

I don't think it is right to make money from it by commercializing.  Just my 2 cents.


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## owls84 (Aug 19, 2010)

You know at first I am like man I don't like it but I can appreciate how different people express themselves in different ways and I happen to know Jay-Z to be a PHA Mason. I assume Rick Ross is as well. I don't look at it as profiting but more expressing how he feels about Masonry. The first line is AWESOME: "This is to all the men who see the light at midnight." How cool is that? Now he goes on to use words I would not but this is his expression and I personally love it. Masonry if taught right has a way of engulfing all you do. You talk about it non stop and it comes up in every conversation. If this man is new or has been overcome with the craft he would have no choice but to write a song to express himself. 

I say awesome way to express you feelings of Masonry. The more I listen I love it.


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## Zack (Aug 19, 2010)

I couldn't understand 80% of it.


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## rhitland (Aug 19, 2010)

I loved the line "I quit writing so I do it mentally".  Josh said it best and I agree.  We express ourselves how we know how and since most of us did not grow up in the ghetto we would never understand or get why the ghetto does what it does to people. That song although some money may be made from it will dispense light all throughout that community so it has my vote.  I kinda view them the same as the masons who sale masonic rings and garb, plus its music.


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## HKTidwell (Aug 19, 2010)

You also have to realize that Jay-Z has been hammered over Masonry for a while.  I've never confirmed whether he is or is not a Mason, however you listen to the song and somebody associated with that song was a mason or has done alot of research.  

To me parts of the song are offensive but coming from his background and the context behind the song, I could see why they would say it.  Not a song I would personally be involved with but I understand why they might have gone with it.  

I don't consider it profiteering/commercialization of it.  I realize he may be profiting from it but there is a depth to it and it isn't his sole focus.  

Perhaps it will cause somebody to dig deeper into masonry then 75% of the junk you find on the internet.


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## JTM (Aug 19, 2010)

> This is for the soldiers
> the see the sun at midnight, ya dig
> let me slow down
> itâ€™s so incredible
> ...



here are the lyrics for the jay z song.


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## JTM (Aug 19, 2010)

i actually like this song.  of course, i like any song with a beat + meaning.  i don't know if he did it on purpose, but you can apply a lot of meaning to that.


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## Bill Lins (Aug 20, 2010)

"cryptic codes" is correct!


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## Blake Bowden (Aug 20, 2010)

I'm not comfortable with the words "bitch", 'fuck" and "nigga" being associated with our beloved Craft.

:001_unsure:

FYI there is no evidence that Jay Z is PHA or mainstream.


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## Bill Lins (Aug 20, 2010)

Gotta remember- PHA has different rules than we do. For one, they ARE allowed to use their Masonic affiliation for business & political purposes, I'm told. In addition, I'm also told that a felony conviction of one of them is NOT an automatic expulsion, as it would be for one of us. The difference in laws may be one reason GLoT & PHA are still separated.


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## rhitland (Aug 20, 2010)

Good point brother Bill about the laws, that could def. be a reason we cannot co-mingle.  This song really has got me to thinking about how differently we express ourselves but ultimately are saying the same thing.  That song was all about making yourself better and not being a wanna be sheep in society, it just kinda came of harsh at first to my country boy ears.


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## Wingnut (Aug 20, 2010)

I agree with Blake dont like the words used.  Imagine that being read or said or played in some of the lodges we have discussed before.  There would be hell to pay..


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## owls84 (Aug 20, 2010)

Yeah you are right Wingnut, heads would roll, but as I have said the topics they cover are amazing. If you get past the language and listen to the message it is powerful. I personally get excited just listening to it. I am not a fan of rap but I appreciate the message. 

Blake - You are right. When I first looked months ago it was at the height of the Jay-Z rumors and there were a ton of sites saying he is. It looks like now it is the other way. 

Bill - What says that if you have a felony you are NOT allowed in our Fraternity? My understanding, which came from the GS, is a crime against a child is the only one that is automatically is a no go. Now you can't get a felony while you are a Mason but you can have one before you join. Is tha correct? I was under the impression when I read your post that no person convicted of a felony can join Masonry.


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## Dave in Waco (Aug 20, 2010)

I agree about some the language of the song being too harsh.  Kind of gives the wrong inmpression of Masonry being a bit thugish.

As for the felony, if I remember the GL law correctly, I believe it states a crime involving "moral turpitude".


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## owls84 (Aug 20, 2010)

That is not in the law but on the petition. And that is just so the investigators can inquire about it. The words from the Grand Secretary, while at a secretary's school, were only a crime against a child is an automatic no. The rest should be based on case by case and up to the investigators.


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## Wingnut (Aug 20, 2010)

Yes Bro Dave that is what it says...  now get 2 lawyers to agree what that is!


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## Ashton Lawson (Aug 20, 2010)

I'll have to go back and try to read the words, because honestly, I have a very difficult time tuning into a message that is that rife with expletives, racial epithets, and offensive language. 

If someone spoke to me like that in a lodge, I'd ask them to leave the lodge, their message be damned.

Delivery is important.


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## Dave in Waco (Aug 20, 2010)

Wingnut said:


> Yes Bro Dave that is what it says... now get 2 lawyers to agree what that is!



If 2 lawyers could agree, we wouldn't need judges. LOL


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## Frater Cliff Porter (Aug 20, 2010)

I have listened to Lost Secret's Queens Hall of Science and was moved that, although this is not my present form of self expression, Masonry moved these men to write about the philosophies of the Craft and share them with the world in a way that they could.

Swear words are not agreeable in all cultures, but the truth is a well aimed swear word can get peoples attention.  So, I don't like the music, but admire that young Masons are doing what they can to express how important Masonic philosophy is in their lives.

We don't get upset when people sell Masonically themed books, sell regalia, etc...

I will be honest, I think we go overboard to appear that we are not supporting our Brothers.  

I will hire, retain, work with, etc...a brother before others...because I trust them and we share a common bond.  The Aggies don't apologize for knocking rings and neither should we.


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## JTM (Aug 20, 2010)

i'm with FCP

gonna give it the shelton!


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## HKTidwell (Aug 20, 2010)

A bit off topic
I had a interesting conversation in the past week with a Brother.  He commented that in the 70's "ring jobs" were a common thing.  I was a bit perplexed and he went on to explain that if you were a Mason you would receive preferential treatment over better qualified person.  This turned him off at the time because of the way it was presented to him.  He didn't join till years down the road and now he is a very active member and very much what Masonry is about.  

Like FCP I agree, at the same time it will never be an exclusive reason for me.  It will list as a high priority as long as he doesn't try to sell himself as a Mason first and business man second..  We should be doing everything we can to help a brother, this includes mentally, physically, and financially if it is within our power.


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## TexMass (Aug 20, 2010)

Commercializing on Freemasonry and profiting from it?  National Treasure?


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## Benton (Aug 20, 2010)

TexMass said:


> Commercializing on Freemasonry and profiting from it?  National Treasure?



National Treasure popped into my mind as well, but it wasn't in your face the whole time, at least not in my opinion. It was mentioned, and gave us some good media, but I didn't feel like it was about us, just that Freemasonry played a role in a larger story.


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## swole (Aug 20, 2010)

I have to jump in on this thread being that I for one am a hip hop producer and two, curse like a sailor. lol. I believe everyone has a different upbringing and way of life and sometimes we tend to be closed minded about things like this. Now I have to admit that I wouldn't go bumpin' this with the windows down while I'm driving to a lodge, but hip hop among other types of music have been in my upbringing. I am a firm believer in "there is a time and place for everything" and all though I listen to hip hop, I would not expect the older gentlemen in my lodge to listen to this and thus I respect that. Same as the manner that I speak. I do not speak the same to the brothers in my lodge as i do to my non-mason friends. I say this because it is a different type of love. I can respect my brothers in my lodge which bring a certain feeling of kinship and brotherhood as well as my non-mason friends all the same with different approaches. I would not approach "Say say, playa? what's the price fo' that whip" while trying to purchase a vehicle at a car dealership. Neither would I approach individuals on the street "Pardon me gentlemen, but could I happen to trouble you for some sugar?". I understand that there are various environments in society and forms of communication that we use to communicate with our peers in the respective surroundings.

This song is currently my profile song in my facebook page and has been for about a week before I even made my EA Degree. It is a very powerful track in which Rick Ross and Jay Z express their feelings about Free Masonry. Now although I do believe that they are both to be masons, I do not know what lodge or jurisdiction they fall under. I do not think that in this music they have violated any Free Mason laws nor is the music for everyone but it does touch an audience that can benefit from Free Masonry. I know this myself because not only as a producer do I make Hip Hop music, but I as well am part of that audience and have already begun to benefit from the brotherhood. With this said I hope many of you brothers approach the music with open ears and arms as it is merely a form of self expression.

 I have never met with Rick Ross but have worked with companies pitching tracks for him but nothing in the company of Free Masonry. Rick Ross has been in the company of Free Masons including a brother here (T-Berry) and is clearly a Free mason but I am a bit unsure about Jay-z. He did say at a point on his verse "I said a was amazing, not that I'm a Mason" which honestly he is correcting an audience that misunderstood what he said on one of his other songs. But, a correction of one word does not exclude being a part of the brotherhood.

I also think that this particular track was not really for profit in its intentions. Music is a HUGE form of expression and a lot of us make music as an outlet or when we have something to say.


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## Bill Lins (Aug 21, 2010)

Bro. swole, I am _not_ flaming you, but please remember that you now represent the entire Fraternity and do your best to conduct yourself accordingly- you just never know who's watching & listening.


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## Blake Bowden (Aug 21, 2010)

What evidence do you have that Jay Z aka Shawn Corey Carter is a Freemason? It's not about culture, but respect for the Craft.


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## swole (Aug 21, 2010)

AAAAGGGHHH! How the flames burn!!! JK! lol.....I agree Bro. Bill. It is always best to represent ourselves as good men and live by what we are being taught in addition to what we know. I'm just beginning to learn and have instantly fallen in love with Masonry! The Aura of the brothers there is out of this world. I am proud to have decided to become a Mason I constantly have this in my head. This is why I stated about applauding these artists in spreading their word. Masonry to me was a wake up call literally yelling in my face "There are good men out there!" So by this I model myself accordingly, and set myself to mold myself into a better man and Mason.


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## swole (Aug 21, 2010)

@ Blake I too would like to see what evidence that Jay-Z is a Mason other than the rumors that have been spread. Like I said before I am unsure about him even being one. In fact the previous lyrics I was talking about before were merely correcting a previous song neither denying nor accepting the claims of being a Free Mason. Interesting thread


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## Blake Bowden (Aug 21, 2010)

Hah no flames here Bro. Swole, just open discussions. There's no definitive authority of Freemasonry on this forum. We're here to learn, exchange ideas and in some cases, participate in friendly debates. Nobody is right, nobody is wrong. We may disagree, but that will not divide us.


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## Blake Bowden (Aug 21, 2010)

swole said:


> @ Blake I too would like to see what evidence that Jay-Z is a Mason other than the rumors that have been spread. Like I said before I am unsure about him even being one. In fact the previous lyrics I was talking about before were merely correcting a previous song neither denying nor accepting the claims of being a Free Mason. Interesting thread


 
Same here. I didn't mean to single out Jay Z, as there are many people who've been labeled Freemasons with no proof whatsoever. The Wright Brothers, Santa Anna and Bob Hope to name a few.


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## swole (Aug 21, 2010)

LOL @ Borat!!!! I was teasing brother bill a bit on the flameing. I do agree with him 100%. The aim is to become better men and represent ourselves as such. I feel Masonry to me is a giant spot light on a road which I did not see before and I think this is why I have been so hyper lately! I would love to see if there is evidence on  Jay-Z being a Free mason though. Im sure it would be an interesting read.


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## swole (Aug 21, 2010)

haha! There are so many conspiracy theorists out there it's crazy to see a lot of these people labeled as Free Masons. Although I wouldn't see anything wrong with them being Free Masons, I am sure that they can become one if they weren't. The majority of these claims are made from a bunch of misunderstood statements, words, etc.


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