# France's return to the fold.



## bjdeverell (Jun 16, 2014)

I heard that the UGLE has decided to reestablish full Recognition with the Grande Loge Nationale Française. Does anyone know what concessions were made on the part of our French Brethren that appeased the UGLE to allow Recognition again? Also, even though most Regular GL's follow the lead of the UGLE in regards to Recognition; what is the current relationship status between your GL and the GLNF? Our Fraternity has always faced problems with our French Brothers, hopefully it holds together this time.


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## Mike Martin (Jun 16, 2014)

I'm not too sure what you're trying to imply. There were no concessions, the GLNF has just returned to practising regular Freemasonry. 

You will easily find the details all around the Internet regarding why recognition was removed in the first place.


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## bjdeverell (Jun 16, 2014)

I wasn't trying to imply anything. I was only wanting to know the details of what was done to make things right again after all of the political dabbling in which the GM had been involved and whatnot. If no concessions or general changes had to be made, then how is it that they returned to practicing Regular Freemasonry?


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## MarkR (Jun 17, 2014)

bjdeverell said:


> I wasn't trying to imply anything. I was only wanting to know the details of what was done to make things right again after all of the political dabbling in which the GM had been involved and whatnot. If no concessions or general changes had to be made, then how is it that they returned to practicing Regular Freemasonry?


For one thing, the Grand Master who caused the problems, Francois Stifani, has been expelled.


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## Mike Martin (Jun 17, 2014)

bjdeverell said:


> I wasn't trying to imply anything. I was only wanting to know the details of what was done to make things right again after all of the political dabbling in which the GM had been involved and whatnot. If no concessions or general changes had to be made, then how is it that they returned to practicing Regular Freemasonry?


You've just detailed what the problem was, I've already told you that it has stopped, so I don't see what it is you're looking for. Unless you're looking for some gossip which of course is not a Masonic thing to seek.


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## dfreybur (Jun 17, 2014)

MarkR said:


> For one thing, the Grand Master who caused the problems, Francois Stifani, has been expelled.



Wow.  I figured he would just be elected out at their next annual communication.


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## BryanMaloney (Jun 17, 2014)

dfreybur said:


> Wow.  I figured he would just be elected out at their next annual communication.



Given that his regime ended with that Grand Lodge having its affairs being run by a court-appointed administrator (Maitre Monique Legrand), and she was not a Mason, either.


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## BryanMaloney (Jun 17, 2014)

GODF is atheist and has been since the late 19th century, thus, it abandoned one of the Landmarks.
GLDF is a schism from GODF that nominally abandoned GODF's atheism but has never had regular relationships with UGLE. It is now in a friendly relationship with GODF.
GLNF was formed in the early 20th century. I don't know much about its history, other than that it has usually been on good terms with UGLE.
Droit Humaine pretty much has tossed the Landmarks out the window.


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## BroBook (Jun 17, 2014)

What do the letters stand for?
I know G=grand , L=lodge any ideas?


Bro Book
M.W.U.G.L. Of Fl: P.H.A.
Excelsior # 43
At pensacola


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## dfreybur (Jun 17, 2014)

GLNF - *Grande Loge Nationale Française*


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## BroBook (Jun 17, 2014)

Thanks, what about GODF & the other one ?


Bro Book
M.W.U.G.L. Of Fl: P.H.A.
Excelsior # 43
At pensacola


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## MarkR (Jun 18, 2014)

Grand Orient de France, Grande Loge de France, Grande Loge Nationale Française

In English, Grand Orient of France, Grand Lodge of France, French National Grand Lodge.


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## Glen Cook (Jun 18, 2014)




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## Glen Cook (Jun 18, 2014)

That was an unsuccessful attempt to post an image of the Home GL's letter on the subject.


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## bjdeverell (Jun 22, 2014)

Mike Martin said:


> You've just detailed what the problem was, I've already told you that it has stopped, so I don't see what it is you're looking for. Unless you're looking for some gossip which of course is not a Masonic thing to seek.



Easy there. Don't have to be so short about it. I wasn't looking for gossip, and the implication isn't well received. Forgive me for not living so close to France. Being 4,000 miles away, separated by half of the American continent and a sizable body of water makes it somewhat difficult to keep abreast of every little detail in circumstances that happened in France. Here's the problem. Jurisdictions handle things differently everywhere in the World - so, as I'm sure you can imagine, my familiarity with the rules of the Europeans isn't as sharp as yours may be. Aim your accusations of "gossip" elsewhere Brother. I'm a curious Man, and want nothing more than to learn. Most would agree education to be a VERY Masonic thing to seek.


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## Glen Cook (Jun 22, 2014)

bjdeverell said:


> I wasn't trying to imply anything. I was only wanting to know the details of what was done to make things right again after all of the political dabbling in which the GM had been involved and whatnot. If no concessions or general changes had to be made, then how is it that they returned to practicing Regular Freemasonry?


As indicated, the leadership has changed and the organization is no longer under the control of the appointed government administrator.  

This was a difficult period for my GLNF brethren, and we should be very happy this is beginning to turn around. There will still need to be rapprochement between brethren and restoration of recognition by US GLs who acted.


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## Mike Martin (Jun 24, 2014)

bjdeverell said:


> Easy there. Don't have to be so short about it. I wasn't looking for gossip, and the implication isn't well received. Forgive me for not living so close to France. Being 4,000 miles away, separated by half of the American continent and a sizable body of water makes it somewhat difficult to keep abreast of every little detail in circumstances that happened in France. Here's the problem. Jurisdictions handle things differently everywhere in the World - so, as I'm sure you can imagine, my familiarity with the rules of the Europeans isn't as sharp as yours may be. Aim your accusations of "gossip" elsewhere Brother. I'm a curious Man, and want nothing more than to learn. Most would agree education to be a VERY Masonic thing to seek.


It wasn't meant as an accusation so please don't take it as one, it was a question based on the fact that you already knew all there was to know.


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## bjdeverell (Jun 24, 2014)

Oh, Ok.  See - that's the problem with reading text instead of speaking face to face. Intention is pretty often lost when you don't get to see body language and hear the inflection in a person's voice. I guess that's why so many people get into fights on Facebook lol. I'm so glad I walked away from that.


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## dfreybur (Jun 24, 2014)

Mike Martin said:


> ... you already knew all there was to know.



I expected there to be more to the story.  Bad guy ousted, event not on TV ...  It's a clean outcome but not an expected one to me.


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## Mike Martin (Jun 24, 2014)

No problem


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## Warrior1256 (Aug 21, 2014)

Glad to have them back in the fold.


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## memphisrite (Nov 11, 2015)

For Spain this was a delicate situation while it lasted: as hundreds of brothers requested Masonic assilum (in order to stay regular) in spanish lodges and suddenly the Grand lodge of Spain went from 5000 to 12000 members. So, even if GLNF is back in the fold, it suffered a lot of damage as an institution and may take decades to recover from this episode.


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## Lazza21 (Nov 19, 2015)

Having a holiday home in France and been a fairly regular visitor to "Eleanor D'Aquitaine Lodge" under GLNF when they were suspended by the UGLE (and most if not all the European Grand Lodges) my English friends living in France who were members of that lodge had to resign in order to remain regular with UGLE. Along with many other French lodges "Eleanor D'Aquitaine" broke away from GLNF, because of the problems, and formed a separate body. I can vouch for the regularity of that lodge from my days of visiting in the past. Unfortunately when the GLNF came back into the fold and recognition was reinstated the breakaway GL couldn't be recognised as UGLE will only recognise one GL per country (State in the USA) so I and my friends in France cannot join or visit that lodge but socially members and former members still meet. I used to enjoy visiting in France and can only hope that eventually the rift will be healed. In the meantime social meetings with friends continue,


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## Bloke (Nov 20, 2015)

For a sort of related item, see here


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## Warrior1256 (Nov 21, 2015)

Bloke said:


> For a sort of related item, see here


A great gesture!


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