# Spiritual help



## Sabathil (Jun 11, 2014)

Hello Brothers, I have been recommended by a friend to become a prince hall mason, I feel like I can contribute to the brotherhood and also I want something new in my life but, something inside me is telling me don't do it, it was always told to me that it was evil, I have good friends that are masons that explain in great details what it's origins for, and I I'm intrigued so, how do I fight this spiritual battle...


----------



## dfreybur (Jun 11, 2014)

A lunatic named Leo Taxil published a paper with that accusation in it.  He eventually recanted and admitted it was a forgery.  Recanting does not stop him from being considered a lunatic.

Masonry teaches faith, hope, charity and other virtues.  Think about what that says about the mental health of those who consider us evil.


----------



## MRichard (Jun 11, 2014)

Only you can determine whether it is right for you or not.


----------



## jjjjjggggg (Jun 11, 2014)

Freemasonry isn't for everyone. One may very well find freemasonry conflicts with their spiritual convictions. 

Though freemasonry strongly encourages each man to live out the principles of their own respective faiths, it does not place one religion over another in importance nor condemn a man inferior for not subscribing to one particular faith.

That being said, and I'm assuming you are a Christian, if you were to join you take an obligation to brothers who will come from various religious traditions who don't give Jesus the same exalted position as you, and may conflict with the biblical imperative to not "yoke" yourself to an "unbeliever" (2 Cor. 6:14).


Sent From My Freemasonry Pro App


----------



## Sabathil (Jun 11, 2014)

Thank you all, you make a great point Jaime. Guinn,  I feel like it will conflict with my Christianity but it doesn't have too,  needing something new in my life and I see how masonry treats my friends, a little worried about the backlash I'll receive from Christian family members...


----------



## Sabathil (Jun 11, 2014)

jamie.guinn said:


> Freemasonry isn't for everyone. One may very well find freemasonry conflicts with their spiritual convictions.
> 
> Though freemasonry strongly encourages each man to live out the principles of their own respective faiths, it does not place one religion over another in importance nor condemn a man inferior for not subscribing to one particular faith.
> 
> ...


Thank you all, you make a great point Jaime. Guinn,  I feel like it will conflict with my Christianity but it doesn't have too,  needing something new in my life and I see how masonry treats my friends, a little worried about the backlash I'll receive from Christian family members...


----------



## MRichard (Jun 11, 2014)

Sabathil said:


> Thank you all, you make a great point Jaime. Guinn,  I feel like it will conflict with my Christianity but it doesn't have too,  needing something new in my life and I see how masonry treats my friends, a little worried about the backlash I'll receive from Christian family members...



You can control who knows to some degree except for your immediate family. Some are very open about it and some guys are not and you would never know they were a Mason. Depends on the individual.


----------



## BroBook (Jun 11, 2014)

No my brother masonry does not conflict with Christianity according the Book we hold dear the true religion is to take care of widows and orphans and we as masons meet on the level there is no uneven yoke involved!!!


Bro Book
M.W.U.G.L. Of Fl: P.H.A.
Excelsior # 43
At pensacola


----------



## Sabathil (Jun 11, 2014)

What's a 'yoke'???


----------



## jjjjjggggg (Jun 11, 2014)

Sabathil said:


> What's a 'yoke'???



A yoke is a wooden beam that secured oxen together when pulling a plow. The scripture is from 2 Corinthians 6:14, which says, " Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness?"

When I was a part of a fundamentalist Christian denomination I was told that this meant Christians should not bind themselves to non-believers, such as masons do in our obligations to each other (as not all masons are Christian).

In fact, it was the interpretation that Jesus, being the light of the world, and the only way to the Father, that any organization preaching that salvation was not by Jesus alone was false, and the Christian should avoid it, which would include freemasonry. 

This is why many evangelical and fundamentalist sects of Christianity have stated they are anti-masonic and warn their adherents that they are in danger of going to hell if they participate in any group that doesn't exalt the primacy of Jesus and faith in him alone to save.




Sent From My Freemasonry Pro App


----------



## BryanMaloney (Jun 12, 2014)

The Fundamentalist interpretation of 2 Cor 6:14 would mean that a Fundamentalist cannot work in the same place that has non-Fundamentalist employees, shop at stores with non-Fundamentalist employees or customers or, indeed, live in the same country as one that has non-Fundamentalist citizens. One wonders how they manage to get along.


----------



## jjjjjggggg (Jun 12, 2014)

BryanMaloney said:


> The Fundamentalist interpretation of 2 Cor 6:14 would mean that a Fundamentalist cannot work in the same place that has non-Fundamentalist employees, shop at stores with non-Fundamentalist employees or customers or, indeed, live in the same country as one that has non-Fundamentalist citizens. One wonders how they manage to get along.



Agreed. Martin Luther led a movement to place the Bible as the supreme guide in faith as opposed to a pope, and since then there have been countless break offs with each group claiming to have arrived at the only "true" understanding of the scriptures, each with their own unique ways of approaching the issue of how much should a follower of Christ be involved in the world... some going as far as sequestering themselves totally.

Still, the doctrine that Jesus alone is the Light of the world, is core in all main branches of Christianity, and when we talk about masons seeking "light masonically" Jesus isn't emphasized and therefore the contradiction comes into play. So the logical proof would read "if Jesus alone is the Light and Freemasons do not give primacy to Jesus as the light, then freemasonry is incompatible with Christianity"... or so the arguments have been made in anti-masonic Christian circles. 


Sent From My Freemasonry Pro App


----------



## crono782 (Jun 12, 2014)

I think that it is very possible to overthink the situation and/or come to preconceived opinions about it.

I do not see Freemasonry at odds with my religion at all. It is a philosophical institution that, while spiritual in some aspects, makes no attempt to encroach on the domain of religion. I've heard and participated in several discussions on the topic and have heard many thoughts on it. There are a few "popular" concerns that most will cite, the above discussion being one of them (don't associate with folks outside your circle). Sometimes these come from uninformed non-members, other times from ill-informed members. Sometimes they come from well-informed members that have had a change of opinion on the matter.

Freemasonry is an idea, a philosophical teaching, a way of life; not a path to salvation, not a religion, not a substitute for God, church, or family. It seems to me a lot of the issues that arise with churches (besides straight up internet crazy misinformation, of course) come from not understanding this.


----------



## Sabathil (Jun 12, 2014)

Wow!!! Lot of great info... Feel a little more confident now about my future prince hall brothers, why does it have to be so complicated???


----------



## Morris (Jun 12, 2014)

crono782 said:


> Freemasonry is an idea, a philosophical teaching, a way of life; not a path to salvation, not a religion, not a substitute for God, church, or family.




This statement should be in every lodges webpage under the FAQ section. The simple truth. 

Sent From My Freemasonry Pro App


----------



## Sabathil (Jun 12, 2014)

So what if I joined and realized this is not for me, then what???


----------



## caution22113 (Jun 13, 2014)

Then you would probably stop paying dues and stop participating in lodge functions/events.


----------



## crono782 (Jun 13, 2014)

That could be a jurisdiction thing, never heard of it. Here you can just demit or stop coming hah. 


Sent From My Freemasonry Pro App


----------



## BryanMaloney (Jun 13, 2014)

You can "voluntarily demit", which amounts to "deactivation until you decide otherwise". In essence, you're not "erased from record", but you're certainly not expected to participate from that point, on (as if you're expected to in the first place, it's more like "tickled pink if you participate").


----------



## dfreybur (Jun 13, 2014)

AmigoKZ said:


> If I'm not mistaken



You are definitely mistaken.  I've read though your posts and my conclusion is you are an anti gradually escalating your rhetoric until you get ejected.  Rather than watch to see how long that takes I'll try out the forums new "Ignore" feature on you to see how it works.


----------



## BryanMaloney (Jun 13, 2014)

AmigoKZ said:


> How can you just "demit", if when you become a freemason, you start to know some masonic gestures/secrets etc.?!



Because it's in the rules. Every GL in the USA has provisions for voluntarily demitting. Have you ever actually MET a Freemason?


----------



## tldubb (Jun 13, 2014)

AmigoKZ said:


> "Listen" to your heart!


Ditto! 

Sent From My Freemasonry Pro App


----------



## RyanC (Jun 14, 2014)

Jamie if look at Freemasonry in a more esoteric way you will find that Jesus is more into masonry than you think. Three is a very common and special number in masonry why. Next read the old charges everyone starts with a prayer to God the Son and the Holy Ghost.  


Sent From My Freemasonry Pro App


----------



## jjjjjggggg (Jun 14, 2014)

RyanC said:


> Jamie if look at Freemasonry in a more esoteric way you will find that Jesus is more into masonry than you think. Three is a very common and special number in masonry why. Next read the old charges everyone starts with a prayer to God the Son and the Holy Ghost.



Ryan, without giving up any secrets I'll say that I've noticed allusions to Jesus in some parts of the ritual as well as the overt mentions. But I have a problem with some of it because I'm not a Christian. For me I have taken the allusions as allegorical and instructional instead of literal by demanding a faith in Christ. 

I do enjoy the esoteric side of masonry with all the allegorical teachings. "The Meaning of Freemasonry" by Wilmshurst is one of my favorite works.


----------



## BroBook (Jun 14, 2014)

Us if you want to technically you work with us too


Bro Book
M.W.U.G.L. Of Fl: P.H.A.
Excelsior # 43
At pensacola


----------



## BryanMaloney (Jun 14, 2014)

AmigoKZ said:


> No. I haven't.
> I heard about "makin' sleep" from Russian Freemasons.
> They're workin' with Scottish Rite, I suppose & they recognized by UGLE.



A group can claim to be "with Scottish Rite" and that means nothing. It says nothing about their legitimacy, because "Scottish Rite" has nothing to do with Scotland. There is no legal restriction against claiming to be "Scottish Rite", no matter how fraudulent the claim might be. Likewise, given the history and suppression of Freemasonry in Russia until quite recently, it is highly likely that groups calling themselves "Freemasons" in that country are frauds. Who is their current Grand Master? What is their national mailing address? Tell me those things, and I can tell you if you're dealing with real Masons or just frauds.


----------



## BryanMaloney (Jun 14, 2014)

Liberal Freemasons? No such thing. The first site is the web site for the Regular Russian Grand Lodge, but it would have NOTHING TO DO with so-called "Liberal Freemasons". That sounds like some kind of atheistic "Grande Oriente" nonsense. And so you posted two obviously NON-ASSOCIATED web sites you could have looked up on Google. THAT PROVES NOTHING. Demitting is possible in Freemasonry. Anyone who claims it is not is either a liar or has been lied to, it's that simple. So, which are you?


----------



## crono782 (Jun 14, 2014)

To me that sounds like a poetic interpretation by an individual rather than an officially worded stance. 


Sent From My Freemasonry Pro App


----------



## BryanMaloney (Jun 15, 2014)

AmigoKZ said:


> Thanx for the answer.
> I understood -- "demittin'" is possible.
> But, I clearly remember, that one of the masons told sth like: "...There's no such thing as ex-freemason.
> Once you became -- you'll be freemason. But, if for example you've dissapointed you can not
> ...




I think I now understand what they tried to tell you. When a man voluntarily demits from Masonry, the record of his membership is not destroyed. If he ever wishes to return, all he has to do is present himself at a Lodge, pay the dues for that year, and he is restored in full degree and honors. He doesn't have to start over and do the degrees again. That sounds like what they meant when they talked to you about the matter.

However, that being said, that is the only difference between a voluntary demission and a man who has never been a Mason at all. From the standpoint of daily life, there is no difference, except that a demitted Mason who then violates the Obligation is not going to be allowed to reactivate his membership. It's simply to keep dishonest mean from "cheating"--taking the Obligation while planning on demitting, thinking that it means the Obligation no longer would apply to them.


----------



## BryanMaloney (Jun 16, 2014)

AmigoKZ said:


> Hi.
> But, how can you admit to Fraternity "cheater"?
> Don't you make references/inquiries about the candidate before you invite him?
> Or, maybe I don't understand sth correctly.



There is no invitation. One must apply of his own will and accord. A man who waits around for a Masonic invitation will wait forever. An investigation is done of an applicant. However, the Freemasons are not some kind of infallible Secret World Government, with unlimited power and reach. People can get in who shouldn't have been let in. It's like any other organization. If governments of world powers can be fooled, certainly a private organization with far less resources can be fooled. The Boy Scouts does far more extensive background checking on adults who wish to apply for troop/pack leader positions than does the Freemasons. Since I was accepted by a Cub Scout Pack as an assistant leader, there certainly wasn't anything that would have stood in the way of initiation into the Freemasons.


----------



## pointwithinacircle2 (Jun 24, 2014)

Sabathil said:


> So what if I joined and realized this is not for me, then what???


If you join Freemasonry and decide that you no longer wish to be a Mason there is an established process for leaving the fraternity.  You simply write a letter to your Lodge stating that you wish to demit.  They will process your request and should send you a confirmation letter stating the day on which your Masonic membership ended.


----------



## pointwithinacircle2 (Jun 24, 2014)

jamie.guinn said:


> I do enjoy the esoteric side of masonry with all the allegorical teachings. "The Meaning of Freemasonry" by Wilmshurst is one of my favorite works.


Jamie - This is one of my favorites as well.  I wonder if you have read Roscoe Pound's "Philosophy of Masonry"?  It is available as a free download from the Masonic Service Association or from Google books.  I consider it a must read for anyone interested in understanding the craft.


----------



## JamesMichael (Jun 24, 2014)

Sabathil said:


> Hello Brothers, I have been recommended by a friend to become a prince hall mason, I feel like I can contribute to the brotherhood and also I want something new in my life but, something inside me is telling me don't do it, it was always told to me that it was evil, I have good friends that are masons that explain in great details what it's origins for, and I I'm intrigued so, how do I fight this spiritual battle...




I also was taught by my mother that Freemasonry was satanic. Even though my dad was highly involved. I became a born again Christian as a teenager. Later as an adult I faced similar feelings that you describe. I wish I could say that joining will answer all your questions or calm all your fears. But it won't. Even after I entered the Lodge I wondered if I had lost my salvation because of becoming a freemason. It takes many years to unlearn things from our youth but with patience and perseverance you can follow your heart and move beyond superstitious beliefs. Most of my Mason friends are imperfect, like me, and they all believe in Jesus. If you come from a fundamentalist church upbringing this may be too difficult for you. Maybe seek out a Freemason who is also a minister and ask him all your questions, that's what I did. Hope that helps you.


----------



## jjjjjggggg (Jun 24, 2014)

pointwithinacircle2 said:


> Jamie - I wonder if you have read Roscoe Pound's "Philosophy of Masonry"?



I wasn't aware of it, but i am now, so off to download it!



Sent From My Freemasonry Pro App


----------



## ROLLO (Jun 26, 2014)

Follow your heart. Listening to other people it took me almost 10 years to finally petition in which I'm in the process to be raised soon. 

Sent From My Freemasonry Pro App


----------



## Sabathil (Jun 27, 2014)

ROLLO said:


> Follow your heart. Listening to other people it took me almost 10 years to finally petition in which I'm in the process to be raised soon.
> 
> Sent From My Freemasonry Pro App


Why so long???


----------



## Sabathil (Jun 27, 2014)

JamesMichael said:


> I also was taught by my mother that Freemasonry was satanic. Even though my dad was highly involved. I became a born again Christian as a teenager. Later as an adult I faced similar feelings that you describe. I wish I could say that joining will answer all your questions or calm all your fears. But it won't. Even after I entered the Lodge I wondered if I had lost my salvation because of becoming a freemason. It takes many years to unlearn things from our youth but with patience and perseverance you can follow your heart and move beyond superstitious beliefs. Most of my Mason friends are imperfect, like me, and they all believe in Jesus. If you come from a fundamentalist church upbringing this may be too difficult for you. Maybe seek out a Freemason who is also a minister and ask him all your questions, that's what I did. Hope that helps you.


Yes it actually does, thank you, the internet doesn't really help ether, better to do my own research!


----------



## ROLLO (Jul 2, 2014)

Sabathil said:


> Why so long???



Because I listened to other people. I would ask one person's advice and would leave the situation alone then revisited it then I did it again and final time I said forget it and followed my heart. One if the best decisions I've ever made.

Sent From My Freemasonry Pro App


----------



## AndreAshlar (Jul 22, 2014)

I would suggest praying for discernment and meditating.  Asking other people what you should do is an exercise in futility.  You are your own man and you must be at peace with your own choices.


----------



## goldsquare (Jul 30, 2014)

I was in a similar quandary when I was deciding on becoming a Freemason as my grandfather before me. If you listen to people on the outside looking in you will end up with all types of mis-information. I talked to Mason who was also a minister and he laid it out plain and simple that if the craft was satanic he could not be involved and that the system of Masonary itself alludes to biblical principles.  Seek and you shall find......look for the light if you take on this journey.



Sent From My Freemasonry Pro App
St. Petersburg Lodge #109
MWUGL of Florida Prince Hall Affiliated


----------



## Sabathil (Aug 6, 2014)

I'm in the exact situation! How has masonry changed your life??


ROLLO said:


> Because I listened to other people. I would ask one person's advice and would leave the situation alone then revisited it then I did it again and final time I said forget it and followed my heart. One if the best decisions I've ever made.
> 
> Sent From My Freemasonry Pro App[/Your


----------



## AndreAshlar (Aug 7, 2014)

JamesMichael said:


> I also was taught by my mother that Freemasonry was satanic. Even though my dad was highly involved. I became a born again Christian as a teenager. Later as an adult I faced similar feelings that you describe. I wish I could say that joining will answer all your questions or calm all your fears. But it won't. Even after I entered the Lodge I wondered if I had lost my salvation because of becoming a freemason. It takes many years to unlearn things from our youth but with patience and perseverance you can follow your heart and move beyond superstitious beliefs. Most of my Mason friends are imperfect, like me, and they all believe in Jesus. If you come from a fundamentalist church upbringing this may be too difficult for you. Maybe seek out a Freemason who is also a minister and ask him all your questions, that's what I did. Hope that helps you.



@JamesMichael I wish I could like this response twice.  Perfect articulation of my masonic experience thus far and my reservations prior to petitioning my lodge.  @Sabathil My masonic walk, thus far, has enhanced my spirtuality or so it seems.  I feel more spiritual and I feel more informed about God and my relationship to/with Him.  Not to mention the greater awareness I feel about life, in general.  Pray and meditate and be receptive to the answers you receive as a result of your prayers.  It can be eye opening, liberating, fun and enriching if you allow yourself to receive truth.  Personally, I had to get out of my own way and move beyond the guilt of questioning different things that I'd been taught.  Tradition is powerful in my life and I imagine yours too.  The reality is, tradition and truth are not always synonymous.  That's a hard pill to swallow for most of us.


----------

