# Origins of Masonry?



## TCShelton (Oct 1, 2008)

What do you guys believe to be the origins of Masonry?

1.  Knights Templar
2.  Stone Masons
3.  Other


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## scottmh59 (Oct 14, 2009)

hmmm..uh..PASS..next question


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## Sirius (Oct 14, 2009)

The stone masons defiantly had a role to play, even if that role was simply the adoption of their symbols. It is curious that the Templers disappeared into Scotland and the we see Masonry spring up. However I think the origins of Freemasonry lay in antiquity. Masonry has always existed ,under many guises and many names, but always what we call Freemasonry. The philosophy of Freemasonry has been handed down from generation to generation from time immemorial.


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## rhitland (Oct 14, 2009)

Other


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## scottmh59 (Oct 14, 2009)

be a little more specific there rhity


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## TCShelton (Oct 14, 2009)

scottmh59 said:


> be a little more specific there rhity



+1.  Can't wait to hear this... lol


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## rhitland (Oct 14, 2009)

My disclaimer is I have never been mainstream.

Kabbalah, Qabalah or Cabala. It comes from the Hebrew word QBL meaning "oral tradition". 

What the Kabbalah does is present a symbolic explanation of the origins of the universe.

The foundation of all foundations, and the pillar of all wisdom is to know that there is God who brought into being all existence.

Ancient Kabbalistic teachings where taught in the same manner as our degrees are now. One of the settings of the ancient kabbalah plays is based about the building of King Solomon's Temple. The ancients had to take their teaching underground and what used to be a secrect sanctuary for knowledge this fraternity has evovled to teach any man of good character. Many things about kabbalism matched Masonry close enough for me to lean toward that direction.


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## TCShelton (Oct 14, 2009)

I can dig that.


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## JEbeling (Oct 14, 2009)

Stone Masons... !


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## Hippie19950 (Oct 14, 2009)

I'll go with # 2. That is what I was "taught", but find other venues may well have come into play as well.


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## js4253 (Oct 15, 2009)

I'll go with #3.  I believe Masonic teaching predates Knights Templar and stone masons.  We will never know for sure I suppose.


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## Gerald.Harris (Oct 15, 2009)

Other....... Perhaps in or by another name, but the principals that we believe in, have been handed down from time well before the first building made of stone or brick. Perhaps since the beginning of humankind its-self. Who passed on the concept of God or Supreme Architect ? I suspect that our group actually began when mankind first looked into the heavens, and knew that he did not arrive here by chance.


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## Wingnut (Oct 15, 2009)

3


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## MGM357 (Oct 15, 2009)

King Solomon, according to God, was the wisest man of all time.To me Masonry started the bulding of King Solomon's Temple.


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## Gerald.Harris (Oct 15, 2009)

MGM357 said:


> King Solomon, according to God, was the wisest man of all time.To me Masonry started the bulding of King Solomon's Temple.



I agree with you partially on this subject, but MASONS built King Solomans Temple. There had to exist some knowledge and levels of skill in the work of stone , well before the temple was erected. I can certainly see where the influence of such a wise and good a man as King Soloman would have offered great influence into the speculative side of masonry. Hiram was the actual builder, his influence , skills, and knowledge were used to decorate and adorn the stones. ( Where did he gain all this knowledge)


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## Sirius (Oct 16, 2009)

MGM357 said:


> King Solomon, according to God, was the wisest man of all time.To me Masonry started the bulding of King Solomon's Temple.



According to God? I'm curious, what is your source for this statement?


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## MGM357 (Oct 16, 2009)

The Bible (Greatest Light in Masonry) Reads 1 Kings Chapter 3 Verses

1 Kings 3 records how God asked Solomon what he desired, and it was wisdom that he sought. Because it was selfless in motive, God gave him this ability: 


5In Gibeon the LORD appeared to Solomon in a dream by night: and God said, Ask what I shall give thee. 

6And Solomon said, Thou hast shewed unto thy servant David my father great mercy, according as he walked before thee in truth, and in righteousness, and in uprightness of heart with thee; and thou hast kept for him this great kindness, that thou hast given him a son to sit on his throne, as it is this day. 

7And now, O LORD my God, thou hast made thy servant king instead of David my father: and I am but a little child: I know not how to go out or come in. 

8And thy servant is in the midst of thy people which thou hast chosen, a great people, that cannot be numbered nor counted for multitude. 

9Give therefore thy servant an understanding heart to judge thy people, that I may discern between good and bad: for who is able to judge this thy so great a people? 

10And the speech pleased the LORD, that Solomon had asked this thing. 

11And God said unto him, Because thou hast asked this thing, and hast not asked for thyself long life; neither hast asked riches for thyself, nor hast asked the life of thine enemies; but hast asked for thyself understanding to discern judgment; 

12Behold, I have done according to thy words: lo, I have given thee a wise and an understanding heart; so that there was none like thee before thee, neither after thee shall any arise like unto thee. 


Note verse 12 no one shall be like you before nor after.


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## Wingnut (Oct 16, 2009)

Many of the earlier Masonic rituals referenced the Tower of Babble...


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## Sirius (Oct 16, 2009)

MGM357 said:


> The Bible (Greatest Light in Masonry) Reads 1 Kings Chapter 3
> 
> Note verse 12 no one shall be like you before nor after.



Well there you go. Very informative.


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## rhitland (Oct 17, 2009)

Gerald.Harris said:


> Hiram was the actual builder, his influence , skills, and knowledge were used to decorate and adorn the stones. ( Where did he gain all this knowledge)



Phoenicians where wicked smart builders, this is the wisdom King Solomon had to choose the best of the best stone builders for his monument to God and the best in those times was the Phoenicians. They where great sailors of the sea as well as skilled builders and with a vast navy they sailed to every corner of the globe gathering knowledge from all cultures they visited and then brought this knowledge back to their home land to be incorporated into their already vast amount of knowledge. Hiran King of Tyre was especialy known for ingenuity and  having a vast army of skilled and cunning workmen. Would be really nice to check some books out from the Libary of Alexandria on the building techniques of the Phoenicians.


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## HKTidwell (Oct 18, 2009)

I was sitting in a restruant the other night and a two couples behind me were talking about how "progressed" we are in thinking versus the past.  My thoughts immediately  reflected upon history.  All great societies have had a power graph.  Typically you see a spike in growth based around a military, then you start seeing the demise in a county with social programs.  Romans, Spanish, etc..  You also need a tyrant for growth.  It can be said that Hitler, created more world growth in technologies then any other.  I will site America for this, look at our road system, jet engines, motors, sciences, it is countless how many things took off due to WW II.  Even though I say this Hitler was psychotic and caused so much damage.

I happen to agree with a comment that was said earlier in this thread, the lessons of Freemasonry have been here since time immemorial.  I think the concepts, ideas, and basis for us have grown and expanded with time.  We have had members who were great thinkers, innovators, and orators.  These individuals have caused certain points in times to stand out more then others.  Albert Pike, The founders who put together the first over site, Templers, Temple Builders, and World Travelers.

I don't have a clue when the first time a lesson was put together but I would be willing to bet it was before A.D., and before the first stone of the temple was cut.



owls84 said:


> Does anyone ever wonder, if the dark ages never happened, how much more advanced we will be. Also, why throughout time does it seem technology seem to take a huge step back? It has several times throughout the history of man and will it happen again? I think about this a lot, especially when I watch a show about the Romans.
> 
> Note: As I type this I think of the progression and degression of lodges, one could say that throughout time Lodges will flourish then almost fall. Almost like mini-civilazations. Man, I am really thinking now. Thanks for the posts.


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## LRG (Oct 18, 2009)

Knight Templars were the beginning of our craft.
They took advantage of the stone guild masons to hide and travel.

They adopted templar from King Solomons Temple.

B/Wing please go on


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## Nate Riley (Oct 18, 2009)

I believe it started with operative stone masons in guilds and grew into a speculative craft as non-operative individuals were allowed to join.  As others have indicated, those operative masons guilds could go way back even before King Solomon's Temple.  It is also reasonable to believe that the Knights Templar took solice or became involved in the masons guilds (or masonic lodges) and influenced the spread of speculative freemasonry.


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