# What Bums Me Out



## seanbenjamin (Jun 20, 2013)

Brothers and those interested in masonry for whatever reason,

I'm Sean an MM, SR, YR from Ohio and there is something that truly bums me out and puzzles me. 

In my life I have met a lot of different people from different backgrounds and I have seen a lot of greed, carelessness, selfishness, etc. in the world. Then I became a mason and found out that there ARE people who care, there ARE people who want to see good prevail, to serve their God, community, and family.  

Being around my brothers is the coolest thing in the world for me. Then, someone outside the craft sees my ring, or I go on YouTube looking for videos about the Royal Arch. What do I get? People bashing masons, saying the polar opposite of what I have witnessed. 

What bums me out is that if these anti masons online and in the real world truly care about the things they say. If they honestly fear we are the bad guys, then in reality they would probably love what masonry really is. 

Am I off base here?



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## Brother_Steve (Jun 20, 2013)

It is a double edged sword.  If everyone was how you wanted them to be then the fraternity would not have to exist because in essence, we'd all practice masonic ways.  I look at the Freemason issue like a math problem. The equation has to balance out. The more we do as a fraternity will be met with the equal but opposite resistance.  I would be worried when the hate stops.  Remember, the good men find their way through the BS and that is what matters.


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## Ratchet (Jun 20, 2013)

I have encountered the anti-masonic people on You Tube also.
You can politely responded to their comments. It's not too hard to disprove what they believe about us.
Some are so far out in left field, I just chuckle & ignore them. 
They have been mislead and probably would embrace the Craft if they understood it. Others are so narrow minded and would never understand.


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## seanbenjamin (Jun 20, 2013)

Those are both excellent answers. I appreciate them. I will say though that some of the anti masonry is difficult to disprove because in doing so you would have to reveal parts of the degrees, which I won't do. That's not always the case but when they say allege a Masonic deity or something, dealing with a particular York rite degree. You could so easily say "oh no no no, you misunderstand ....." But doing so would be tricky without violating an oath. 


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## Ratchet (Jun 20, 2013)

You're right about having to watch what you say in response to their allegations.
I know what you mean about dealing with a particular York rite degree. 
I saw one where they were taking pot shots at Shrine too !!!!


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## Blake Bowden (Jun 21, 2013)

seanbenjamin said:


> What bums me out is that if these anti masons online and in the real world truly care about the things they say. If they honestly fear we are the bad guys, then in reality they would probably love what masonry really is.
> 
> Am I off base here?
> 
> ...



Before I petitioned a Lodge, I scoured the Internet for information about Freemasonry and what I found was shocking. There are so many anti-Freemason sites, not to mention youtube videos. Some believe this site was launched to compete with the official GLOTX website, but that's not the case. It was meant to combat anti-Masonry and provide assistance to those worthy to seek membership.


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## Brother_Steve (Jun 21, 2013)

Blake Bowden said:


> Before I petitioned a Lodge, I scoured the Internet for information about Freemasonry and what I found was shocking. There are so many anti-Freemason sites, not to mention youtube videos. Some believe this site was launched to compete with the official GLOTX website, but that's not the case. It was meant to combat anti-Masonry and provide assistance to those worthy to seek membership.


My wife had zero clue what freemasonry was so when I approached her I let her borrow my freemason for dummies book and told her not to google freemasonry. I was up front with her that a lot of nut jobs out there have zero clue what masonry is about.


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## seanbenjamin (Jun 21, 2013)

Oh yeah there is that one video where the YouTuber ambushes an old Shriner outside of a hospital. And you could tell the Shriner was just fed up with the kid. The old "pure and virtuous" video. I'm not in the Shrine or anything yet but to drag their name through the mud after all they do for kids with the hospitals is just disgusting. 


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## seanbenjamin (Jun 21, 2013)

But to my original point. I'm not so much talking about the posters of the anti masonry videos so much as some of the people who watch them and get the wrong idea. 

If people watch the videos and worry it doesn't reconcile with their faith..Don't! I have never been more inspired to pursue my relationship with my faith than since I joined. 

If they worry it is a big government big brother conspiracy...Don't! We are people from all political ideologies with one common principle, freedom. 




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## dfreybur (Jun 23, 2013)

seanbenjamin said:


> If they honestly fear we are the bad guys ...



Why would you think any anti is honest?

Many antis are delusional.  They are not able to tell truth from fiction.  Pray for their mental healing and move on.

Many antis are authoritarian/fanatics who are the enemies of freedom.  I am not convinced that the hate they hold for free men and free thinkers is honest in the way we normally think of.  To the extent opposition and hate can be called sincere I suppose the best of these antis could be called sincere, but their opposition rarely cares about truth.  Pray for the civilization of freedom to overwhelm their cause.


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## widows son (Jun 23, 2013)

The anti view point has more holes in it than Swiss cheese. Some are delusional at best.


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## MarkR (Jun 24, 2013)

For the most part, I've found it pointless to argue with antis.  They usually respond with one of two counters to any facts you give them: "You aren't high enough up to know the truth."  Like they, not a Mason at all, have access to information that we, as "low-ranking" Masons don't.  Or "you wouldn't admit to the truth because you've taken a vow not to."  So, unless I know the person and can say "who do you want to believe, me whom you know personally, or somebody on the internet?"


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## DJGurkins (Jun 24, 2013)

I had the pleasure  of being asked by a coworker the other day if I was a mason. I told him I was and he proceeded to ask me about the one world order conspiracy stuff. I looked at him and said with as much conviction as I could muster. We are in the planning stages of that, if we could only decide on a date and time it would be done already. We both got a laugh out of that.


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## rpbrown (Jun 24, 2013)

The sad part of this is that when good men are looking for information prior to turning in a petition, they see this garbage and make the decision not to turn it in.


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## widows son (Jun 24, 2013)

"The sad part of this is that when good men are looking for information prior to turning in a petition, they see this garbage and make the decision not to turn it in."

• This is true. I've mentioned that I was an anti on another thread. Even after I knew for sure that there was nothing evil about Freemasonry, on the back of my head, there was the nagging voice on an anti. That was smothered out very quickly.


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## BryanMaloney (Jun 24, 2013)

Ratchet said:


> I have encountered the anti-masonic people on You Tube also.
> You can politely responded to their comments. It's not too hard to disprove what they believe about us.
> Some are so far out in left field, I just chuckle & ignore them.
> They have been mislead and probably would embrace the Craft if they understood it. Others are so narrow minded and would never understand.



Pet peeve: It's "right field", NOT left field. Anyone who plays baseball knows that you ALWAYS expect something to come at you from out of left field, since almost all right-handed hitters hit to left field, and the field plays almost always, therefore, come out of left field. Thus, it is right field that is wacky, strange, weird, crazy, and lunatic, not left field.

Left field: Normal.
Right field: Lunatic.


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## BryanMaloney (Jun 24, 2013)

MarkR said:


> For the most part, I've found it pointless to argue with antis.  They usually respond with one of two counters to any facts you give them: "You aren't high enough up to know the truth."  Like they, not a Mason at all, have access to information that we, as "low-ranking" Masons don't.  Or "you wouldn't admit to the truth because you've taken a vow not to."  So, unless I know the person and can say "who do you want to believe, me whom you know personally, or somebody on the internet?"



That's pretty much the thing about all conspiracy theories. Somehow, there is this world-spanning, all-powerful conspiracy that has managed to keep its true aims and might a perfect secret, except for the Super Special People who Know the Truth. Likewise, the Conspiracy is Evil and Ruthless--it will Stop At Nothing (TM). So, the promulgators of the conspiracy theory are Risking Their Lives (TM). The Conspiracy can assassinate anyone with impunity too keep their secrets, but they somehow aren't able to rub out some fringie with a web site?


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## widows son (Jun 24, 2013)

A YouTube video with red text bubbles all over it should be a red flag. But alas...

Bryan, what if your a switch hitter? Lol


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## widows son (Jun 24, 2013)

I also love how this masonic one world conspiracy is over 300 years old, and according to the Anti's it's still happening, but yet after 300 years nothing has happened. Some conspiracy. I thought the masons controlled everything? Wouldn't be easy to bring this about if you control everything, especially if you've had 300 YEARS to prepare. Swiss cheese I say.


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## jvarnell (Jun 24, 2013)

I want to first say that it is hitting are the hart of what some of y'all seam to misunderstand what I say on this whole forum. The people that say they can disprove something are always on the wrong side of things.  I always say what can you prove about your own theory.  They may be able to make thing look bad for Masons on individuals things but when you put them together anti-masons have no leg to stand on.  Nothing is 100% when humans are involved.  There are bad humans and good humans but we as masons try to weed the bad ones out.  I am conservative and a Tea Party member and considered right wing by MSNBC.  Bro. Bryan this whole right and left thing is a distraction and just a label someone that wants to hurt someone else uses. I am right and that is what I am is right.  The research I did even looking at YouTube is what made me petition.  When I saw the help Masons have done and how they can pull all religions together to do this I saw what I think the founding fathers saw.  We meet on the level and do better than others in our endeavors because of that.  No one is any better that anyone else.


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## BryanMaloney (Jun 24, 2013)

widows son said:


> A YouTube video with red text bubbles all over it should be a red flag. But alas...
> 
> Bryan, what if your a switch hitter? Lol



Switch hitters are not common. Thus, "right field" is still abnormal, while "left field" is normal.


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## BryanMaloney (Jun 24, 2013)

jvarnell said:


> I want to first say that it is hitting are the hart of what some of y'all seam to misunderstand what I say on this whole forum. The people that say they can disprove something are always on the wrong side of things.  I always say what can you prove about your own theory.  They may be able to make thing look bad for Masons on individuals things but when you put them together anti-masons have no leg to stand on.  Nothing is 100% when humans are involved.  There are bad humans and good humans but we as masons try to weed the bad ones out.  I am conservative and a Tea Party member and considered right wing by MSNBC.  Bro. Bryan this whole right and left thing is a distraction and just a label someone that wants to hurt someone else uses. I am right and that is what I am is right.  The research I did even looking at YouTube is what made me petition.  When I saw the help Masons have done and how they can pull all religions together to do this I saw what I think the founding fathers saw.  We meet on the level and do better than others in our endeavors because of that.  No one is any better that anyone else.



Let me guess, you don't play baseball.


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## jvarnell (Jun 24, 2013)

BryanMaloney said:


> Let me guess, you don't play baseball.



No but I do know Trig and the concepts you were talking about.  The thing that can control the direction of the ball could also do with the braking of the wrist or time of impact to the ball and where it is over the plate.  I have not played any sports since I was 12.  At that time I told one of the jock types he did not have to just hit it hard he just had to hit it between the infield and out field where they were not expecting it to get a base hit.  He said it is had to be hard or nothing for him.  He always got out I did not.  The jock type person was my twin brother.  I was the youngest and smallest on any team so I quit being on the teams to do other things.

So the right or right field is where all the well thought out or mathematically sound things come from and should have not been brought into this conversation. The wack-o's I see always try to tell you why you are wrong or prove your theory wrong instead of having there own theory and proving it right.


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## BryanMaloney (Jun 24, 2013)

jvarnell said:


> No but I do know Trig and the concepts you were talking about.  The thing that can control the direction of the ball could also do with the braking of the wrist or time of impact to the ball and where it is over the plate.  I have not played any sports since I was 12.  At that time I told one of the jock types he did not have to just hit it hard he just had to hit it between the infield and out field where they were not expecting it to get a base hit.  He said it is had to be hard or nothing for him.  He always got out I did not.  The jock type person was my twin brother.  I was the youngest and smallest on any team so I quit being on the teams to do other things.
> 
> So the right or right field is where all the well thought out or mathematically sound things come from and should have not been brought into this conversation. The wack-o's I see always try to tell you why you are wrong or prove your theory wrong instead of having there own theory and proving it right.



Given that I'm left-handed, the left is where all well thought-out or mathematically sound things (have I mentioned I make my living through statistical analysis and molecular neuroscience?--I probably know a thing or two about math and thinking out theories--if you want to play the whole right/left brain thing, okay, then most people are innately inferior by your reasoning, since they are right-handed but left-brain dominant) come from.


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## jvarnell (Jun 25, 2013)

BryanMaloney said:


> Given that I'm left-handed, the left is where all well thought-out or mathematically sound things (have I mentioned I make my living through statistical analysis and molecular neuroscience?--I probably know a thing or two about math and thinking out theories--if you want to play the whole right/left brain thing, okay, then most people are innately inferior by your reasoning, since they are right-handed but left-brain dominant) come from.


 no on the contrary I believe that is a good design component of the human body having the opposite side of the brain control the opposite side of the body for motor skills.  Also for thought you know that the brain was created to be more artistic/creative and the left more logical.  But none of the left or right discussions has anything to do with this thread.


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## rhitland (Jun 27, 2013)

The EA charges covers attempting to defend the craft and how we should not waste our zeal on ignorance.  The anti masonry movement is one fo the best things for Masonry IMHO.  Not only have most of these folks done stellar research if you can untwist their facts they also discourage ingnorance and narrow minded folks from our doors.  Not to mention most of these folks are attempting to procure information to get you to donate money or your time to spread ignorance.  Masonry's stance on not defending itself from wack-a-do is one of the greatest tools to teach us to stay on the path of knowledge and building not destruction and hatered.


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## James F Jackson (Jun 27, 2013)

Good afternoon to all. I have visited a you tube site regarding anti freemasonry. The funny thing was that after viewing some of the nonsense i still knew i wanted to become a freemason. 

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## jvarnell (Jun 27, 2013)

James F Jackson said:


> Good afternoon to all. I have visited a you tube site regarding anti freemasonry. The funny thing was that after viewing some of the nonsense i still knew i wanted to become a freemason.
> 
> Freemason Connect Mobile



That's not funny it is you understanding you need to look at what the Freemasons ar for your self and come to your own conclusions your self.  That is where I came from is researching the anti-mason movement and finding only good a wholesome ideals.  Come on positions your local lodge and you will see.


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## LittleHunter (Jun 27, 2013)

considering the source of most anti-Masonic propaganda it's reasonable to presume Freemasons are good company


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## BillCarroll (Jun 27, 2013)

Although it is aggravating to listen to ignorant people, sometimes it is amusing to hear some of the conspiracy theories and just how incredibly ridiculous their ideas are about Masonry.


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