# Resolution proposals for next GL session



## Mac (Feb 18, 2012)

Brethren,

Out of curiosity:  What are some potential resolutions you would like to see sent into Grand Lodge for the next session?

I guess an example of one that caught my attention previously was the one requesting that we be allowed to publicly recognize our new EA's, since we currently can't.


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## Brother Mark (Feb 18, 2012)

I wouldnt mind having all Masonic teachers have a class "c" certificates. That way they have been ok'd by the committee on work.


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## JJones (Feb 18, 2012)

I was thinking about this lately actually, and I have two:

1. Drastically decrease the amount of masons needed to form a new lodge.

2. Allow Master Masons to be able to vote and have a voice in Grand Lodge, removing the requirement to be a past master.

Just my .02


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## Brother Mark (Feb 19, 2012)

I would agree with that jjones


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## Larry Burks (Feb 19, 2012)

Well, I find there is already problems with the Grand Master's recommendation that pasted last year, so I think a recommendation to change it is in order - actually I am working on that already.  Seems the only people who can sit in the East are ones who have a certificate, and completed the LIFE PROGRAM or Warden's retreat.  What about the small lodges who are going back though their Past Masters?  Shouldn't there be a provision for their experience?  What about our District instructor?  Past Master, Certificate holder, but has not attended a Warden's Retreat and not completed the LIFE program, has been a mason for over 50 years, and though it would be unlikely he would be asked to set in the East for a full year he can't because he will not complete the LIFE books, and I don't blame him.  Anyway that is one resolution I think needs to be made.


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## Larry Burks (Feb 19, 2012)

JJones said:


> 2. Allow Master Masons to be able to vote and have a voice in Grand Lodge, removing the requirement to be a past master.


JJones, I have thought about this for some time.  I believe that gaining membership into the Grand Lodge, being able to vote and make decisions that affect all Texas Masons is the most important part of sitting in the East.  I know there are others who disagree, but that should be an incentive to each member of the lodge to get into the chairs.  I do respect your opinion, and this is just mine. Have a great day, and may your pathway always be lit by the Great Light.


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## JJones (Feb 19, 2012)

Bro. Burks, I'd offer a counter point but that might lead to us derailing this thread. 

In regards to the requirements to going to the East I agree with you but I'd like to elaborate a bit also.  The recommendation would work very well if good ritual were to equal good leadership but that isn't always the case.  Good ritual is important, don't get me wrong, but we really need are better leadership programs IMO.


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## Larry Burks (Feb 19, 2012)

JJones said:


> but we really need are better leadership programs IMO.



Amen!!!!


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## jwhoff (Feb 19, 2012)

Larry Burks said:


> JJones, I have thought about this for some time.  I believe that gaining membership into the Grand Lodge, being able to vote and make decisions that affect all Texas Masons is the most important part of sitting in the East.  I know there are others who disagree, but that should be an incentive to each member of the lodge to get into the chairs.  I do respect your opinion, and this is just mine. Have a great day, and may your pathway always be lit by the Great Light.



My issue with this is that it is the responsibility of the sitting Worshipful Master to vote per the desires of the lodge as a whole.  Thereafter, he can vote as he pleases.  

By letting all MMs vote you are reducing to minimal the wishes of those members who are prevented to attend Grand Lodge due to work, age, and / or monetary reasons.

I cannot support the right of all master masons to cast a vote in Grand Lodge proceedings.  Masonry was never set up as a democracy.  Rather, it is a representative form of government.  On some issues, an oligarchy at best.


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## dpteskeys (Feb 19, 2012)

Jjones, why would you want to decrees the amount needed to start new lodges? Do you think we need more lodges?


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## JJones (Feb 19, 2012)

Let's just say I'm a fan of a lot of the Tradition Observance ideas...

Smaller lodges make more sense to me, when a lodge gets to be a certain size then it can split.  You deserve a better explanation but my brain is a bit tired tonight.

I know there are lodges out there that are barely running, we have a few near where I live, but that doesnt mean there still arent lodges booming the next town over that are getting too large.


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## Brother Mark (Feb 19, 2012)

JJones said:


> The recommendation would work very well if good ritual were to equal good leadership but that isn't always the case.  Good ritual is important, don't get me wrong, but we really need are better leadership programs IMO.



I couldnt agree more with that statement.


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## Bill Lins (Feb 19, 2012)

Larry Burks said:


> Seems the only people who can sit in the East are ones who have a certificate


 
Art. 276a does _not _require a prospective WM or Warden to have a Certificate- all it requires is that the Brethren in question demonstrate their ability to open & close the 4 Lodges _to the satisfaction of the Lodge, _in addition to either attending a Warden's Retreat or completing the LIFE program.



Larry Burks said:


> he will not complete the LIFE books, and I don't blame him.


 
Why won't he? It's hardly an onerous requirement. Even those who have previously served as WM can use a refresher, especially since our Laws have changed so much over the years.


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## dpteskeys (Feb 19, 2012)

Myself being the charter master of the new Fort Worth Stock Show Lodge #1460 I would love to have some of the members  from these BIG lodges instead of starting new ones. New lodges should be started for other reasons other than membership being to large


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## dpteskeys (Feb 19, 2012)

While I am on the box,, lol. To respond to the ritual topic of WM. How many of us have gone to other lodges who could not open or close properly? Stock Show Lodge 1460 voted Saturday that all Sr officers must have at least a B certificate to serve in those positions. Set the mark high and keep it there.


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## Blake Bowden (Feb 20, 2012)

dpteskeys said:


> While I am on the box,, lol. To respond to the ritual topic of WM. How many of us have gone to other lodges who could not open or close properly? Stock Show Lodge 1460 voted Saturday that all Sr officers must have at least a B certificate to serve in those positions. Set the mark high and keep it there.



Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't this have to be amended to the Lodge by-laws, which in turn has to be approved by Grand Lodge? Would this even be enforceable?


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## dpteskeys (Feb 20, 2012)

You cannot add that to your by laws, but can add it to the minutes as a gentlemans word.


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## anthonywilson (Feb 20, 2012)

Requiring the Lodges to vote on those who want to become teachers.


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## owls84 (Feb 20, 2012)

dpteskeys said:


> You cannot add that to your by laws, but can add it to the minutes as a gentlemans word.



I have not heard of this. This would be a violation of the article Bro. Bill referenced above and not allowed even if it is a wink wink deal this per the GL law. Now if a few people want to just raise that standard without saying you can't progress without it it may be fine but that is going to be a tough sell to everyone. Seems someone could get upset if they get passed over for that reason. 

Plus as anther brother has stated there is much more to the leading of the lodge than the ritual. He needs to be a good manager financially and personnel wise. This is what you touch on in the LIFE and wardens retreat are about.


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## Mac (Feb 20, 2012)

Are there any other ideas anyone has for revisions?  I agree with an above poster as to why giving all MM's a vote in GL would be a bad idea (diluting a lodge's vote and giving larger groups the greater voice).  



JJones said:


> I was thinking about this lately actually, and I have two:
> 
> 1. Drastically decrease the amount of masons needed to form a new lodge.


 


JJones said:


> Let's just say I'm a fan of a lot of the Tradition Observance ideas...


 
I'm in the same boat as brother Jones.  When I looked into the possibility of creating a local lodge that followed either a European Concept or Traditional Observance style, I found out that in a city with a decent population and at least one already-operating lodge, you need something like 50 brethren to open a new lodge.  EC/TO Lodges are focused more on quality than quantity.  I think if you can find 20 brothers of a like mind, they should be a sufficient core group with which to open a new Lodge.



owls84 said:


> Plus as anther brother has stated there is much more to the leading of the lodge than the ritual. He needs to be a good manager financially and personnel wise.


 
Amen, brother.


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## dpteskeys (Feb 21, 2012)

Work


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## Mac (Feb 22, 2012)

I wonder if we should reconsider how we recognize organizations that predicate membership upon being a Master Mason.  

Is Philalethes permanently banned, or can that topic be revisited?

The Masonic Society is a research society with a great quarterly publication (The Journal of TMS).  Can we add that to the list of recognized groups?


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## tomoso (Feb 22, 2012)

If we allowed ALL MM's to vote, Lodges in the vicinity of Waco would be in a much stronger position than those in Amarillo, El Paso, Atlanta, Brownsville, etc.


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## JJones (Feb 22, 2012)

I see what you brothers are saying about my 2nd suggestion.  It's nothing something I'm as sold on as my first suggestion but it also seems to me that this sort of encourages a rushed progressive line.  I also feel that, if there is no greater degree than that of Master Mason, we shouldn't exclude the right to vote in Grand Lodge from them.

Voting in GL wouldn't have to change much, I think.  Instead of lodge representatives voting yes or no they could instead turn in the numbers from when their lodge voted on it. (I.E. 10 For, 5 against)

Anyhow, I'm loving this discussion.


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## Michaelstedman81 (Feb 22, 2012)

jwhoff said:


> I cannot support the right of all master masons to cast a vote in Grand Lodge proceedings.  Masonry was never set up as a democracy.  Rather, it is a representative form of government.  On some issues, an oligarchy at best.


 
Is the issue about all MMs getting a vote referring to just those that are present during GL proceedings, or are we talking about extending the right to vote to ALL MMs in the GLoT jurisdiction?  If it is the latter that is what is being discussed, how would everyone get to vote and how would they count all the votes?  One worry that I have is on really hot topics that the whole thing of "voter fraud" or misplacing ballots could arise.  Or at least the accusations of that kind of stuff.  Just the logistics and getting the timing done right seems like a huge headache.

I don't think that I support the idea of all MMs getting a vote.  However, that is just right now and my mind remains open and not in concrete on that decision.  By no means am I a "Masonic lawyer", nor do I pretend to know all the ins and outs of the Fraternity, but I have also been under the understanding that Masonry has pretty much been set up in the representative form (sort of).  I also do like the fact that PMs and others get to cast their own vote as well, but I think that opening the ballots up to ALL MMs can open the door for some unforseen troubles.  


Just my two cents, Brothers.  I also really hope that my view as it stands at this time doesn't offend any Brothers.  Like I said, it is just my humble opinion as of right now, and is subject to change if more information is provided.


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## JJones (Feb 22, 2012)

It's 'either or' Bro. Stedman.

As mentioned by another brother, if we just extend the right to Master Masons present at Grand Lodge then it creates a sort of unfair advantage for lodges in close proximity.

If it was state wide however, then the lodges could just vote on the resolutions during their stated meeting before Grand Lodge meets and a representative could attend GL with the numbers.  You've got a possibility of fraud, of course, but don't lodges send representatives to vote on their behalf anyhow?  It wouldn't be much different aside from the fact our representatives are turning in numbers instead of simple yes/no answers.

I'm not sure it'd make much difference in the long run, but who knows.

And no offense taken, I enjoy a good discussion.


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## Bill Lins (Feb 22, 2012)

JJones said:


> If it was state wide however, then the lodges could just vote on the resolutions during their stated meeting before Grand Lodge meets and a representative could attend GL with the numbers.  You've got a possibility of fraud, of course, but don't lodges send representatives to vote on their behalf anyhow?  It wouldn't be much different aside from the fact our representatives are turning in numbers instead of simple yes/no answers.
> 
> I'm not sure it'd make much difference in the long run, but who knows.



The problem with this idea is that resolutions can be, and often are, amended before they are voted on. Sometimes, once amended, they barely resemble what was originally proposed. I have, more than once, changed how I was going to vote on an issue due to amendments made to a resolution.


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## Bill Lins (Feb 22, 2012)

Mac said:


> Is Philalethes permanently banned, or can that topic be revisited?
> 
> The Masonic Society is a research society with a great quarterly publication (The Journal of TMS).  Can we add that to the list of recognized groups?


 
Both organizations could be added to the list of recognized groups Texas Masons are allowed to join. It would require resolutions to do so being submitted & then convincing the Grand West to approve them.


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## Beathard (Feb 22, 2012)

I actually like the new officer requirements. Yes, an officer needs something beyond ritual, but the requirement is based on C certificate material. Officers should be able to open and close. They should also be able to assist new members with questions. I think this the the bar that they should strive for. B certificates require one to be a really dedicated ritualist. Ritualists do not necessarily make the best officers.


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## Blake Bowden (Feb 23, 2012)

Mac said:


> The Masonic Society is a research society with a great quarterly publication (The Journal of TMS).  Can we add that to the list of recognized groups?



From what I've been told, the GLofTX doesn't approve, nor disapprove of TMS. Staying outside of the fray may be best solution if you know what I mean


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## Mac (Feb 23, 2012)

How about loosening the restrictions on Apron design?  As long as it's 16x16 and tasteful, isn't that sufficient?  Or maybe we could at least amend the entry to reflect the popular trend in ornate PM aprons.


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## Benton (Feb 23, 2012)

Mac said:


> How about loosening the restrictions on Apron design?  As long as it's 16x16 and tasteful, isn't that sufficient?  Or maybe we could at least amend the entry to reflect the popular trend in ornate PM aprons.


 

I'd be all for custom aprons designs period, personally. If someone wants to express the symbols they hold most dear through a custom apron, why not let them? We can still give a pure white apron to new MM's and all the appropriate symbolism is intact. If they wish to purchase their own customized apron, then more power to them.


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## Mac (Feb 23, 2012)

Brother Benton, I agree entirely!


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## JJones (Feb 23, 2012)

I think so long as it's tasteful then it's like a form of self-expression.  Ever see Brother Franklin's apron?


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## Benton (Feb 24, 2012)

Yeah, so long as the symbolism is Masonic in nature, I don't see the harm. But the first time I see a Metallica apron, I think I'd throw a fit.


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## Brother Mark (Mar 1, 2012)

I wish we could have stricker rules on the investagtion of people wanting to become masons. I have known of brothers doing the investagtion at the lodge instead of going to the candidates house. Also having only 1 person ask the questions and the others just going thru the motions.


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## Bro_Vick (Mar 2, 2012)

Mac said:


> Is Philalethes permanently banned, or can that topic be revisited?
> 
> The Masonic Society is a research society with a great quarterly publication (The Journal of TMS).  Can we add that to the list of recognized groups?



As long as certain members are alive and active in the GLoTX, Philalethes is banned in Texas, and that most likely won't change.

S&F,
-Bro Vick


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## Brother Mark (Mar 2, 2012)

As long as certain members are alive and active in the GLoTX, Philalethes is banned in Texas, and that most likely won't change.



Why are the Philalethes banned?


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## JJones (Mar 2, 2012)

longhorn817 said:


> I wish we could have stricker rules on the investagtion of people wanting to become masons. I have known of brothers doing the investagtion at the lodge instead of going to the candidates house. Also having only 1 person ask the questions and the others just going thru the motions.


 
 Brother, this could be handled on a lodge level if your lodge is willing to commit to improve the quality of investigations.  For example, our lodge has adopted a few policies for our investigating committees to follow.


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## Bro_Vick (Mar 2, 2012)

longhorn817 said:


> Why are the Philalethes banned?



Official reason was that the group "recognized" a co-masonic organization in France it was put to a vote at Grand Lodge and passed to ban the society from Texas, even though Philalethes is still recognized by the rest of North America.

Of course there is more to the story, but it is not appropriate to discuss in an open forum.

S&F,
-Bro Vick


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## Brother Mark (Mar 3, 2012)

Thank you Bro Vick, and JJones


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