# questions brothers ask and answer in public?



## JMartinez

Brethren, I've noticed in my masonic careers their are several questions that Masons ask and answer in pubic when they are being tried or being recognized, these questions are "Are you a traveling man?" Have you seen my dog Hiram?" etc. how do you Brothers feel about this form of trying, and recognition among Brethren in public. please feel free to private message me other "questions and answers" you have came across that are similar to these, NOT THE QUESTIONS FROM MASONIC DEGREE WORK


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## Bro. Michael

A word of advice that I recently received about this. Though you are not wrong for asking the question, a person trying to pose as a Mason who is not, in fact, our Brother, may see this and use the information regarding these questions to better pretend his way into receiving the benefits of Masonry, even though he is not entitled to them. I made a similar post (fairly recently) and a Brother offered me this counsel which proved to be very useful. He also offered me this: "It is sometimes better to be overly cautious than not cautious enough"

Others here may disagree, but it seemed worth mentioning. After all, we are all always learning

If any Brother present, disagrees with this, then I would be glad to know your reasoning behind it. This is the counsel that I was offered, and it is only through the counsel of those wiser than ourselves that we may truly grow.


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## Brother JC

The questions I generally ask a man I believe to be a Brother are, "Are you a Mason?" and "Which Lodge do you belong to?"


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## Bro. Stewart P.M.

trysquare said:


> The questions I generally ask a man I believe to be a Brother are, "Are you a Mason?" and "Which Lodge do you belong to?"



No games. Simple and straight forward.

That's how I roll!


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## MarkR

trysquare said:


> The questions I generally ask a man I believe to be a Brother are, "Are you a Mason?" and "Which Lodge do you belong to?"





Bro. Stewart said:


> No games. Simple and straight forward.
> 
> That's how I roll!


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## Companion Joe

I generally use "I see you're a travelin' man" because I think it is a nice, friendly way to greet someone new. It's not a real method of "trying" someone, nor does it need to be. I am not going to meet someone for the first time in Walmart, a restaurant, or a party and start discussing Masonic degree work with them.

For that matter, if I bump into one of the members of my own lodge in one of those settings, esoteric work isn't going to really be discussed, either.

There is a difference between recognizing someone as a Mason and trying someone.


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## Mike Martin

trysquare said:


> The questions I generally ask a man I believe to be a Brother are, "Are you a Mason?" and "Which Lodge do you belong to?"



Same here!

Although I know that some of our Scots brethren like to ask each other how old their Mothers are, with the answer being the Lodge's number apparently.


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## BryanMaloney

trysquare said:


> The questions I generally ask a man I believe to be a Brother are, "Are you a Mason?" and "Which Lodge do you belong to?"



I like this! After all, this is not an era when a major political party exists with "Ban Freemasonry" in its platform.


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## Brother_Steve

I think it is fun to use the "hey hiram" or similar sayings. A true mason will not try to gain the secrets of Masonry from another on the street. If you encounter someone who approaches you as a mason and tries to get you to acknowledge them masonically they are most likely clandestine.

I had a "hey Hiram" thrown out at me because of my Masonic Keychain. We spoke about everything BUT masonry (asides lodge numbers, meeting nights and friendly invites). A 5 minutes greet can turn into an hour if the wife is not there to break up the party!:53:


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## cacarter

I usually just stick my hand out and like trysquare say "Hi, are you a mason?" But I do always enjoy hearing "I see you're a traveling man" from a stranger when I'm not anywhere close to home.


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## 4570

I live in Alberta Canada.
I am currently a FC.

No one has told me anything about sayings like "hey hiram" we could use to recognise Brothers.

Is this training reserved for MM's?
Or localized only?


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## 4570

My Dad was a Mason.
He passed on a couple of years ago.

As a kid I was quite curious about the Lodge.
He did not tell me much.


I asked him once why he wore the ring and his friend Tom did not.
I recall him telling me there was a way to recognize a Mason from across the room.
Perhaps I will learn more when I become a MM, hopefully this spring.


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## brother josh

4570 said:


> My Dad was a Mason.
> He passed on a couple of years ago.
> 
> As a kid I was quite curious about the Lodge.
> He did not tell me much.
> 
> 
> I asked him once why he wore the ring and his friend Tom did not.
> I recall him telling me there was a way to recognize a Mason from across the room.
> Perhaps I will learn more when I become a MM, hopefully this spring.



Enjoy the journey I'm sure your father would've been proud


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## JamesMichael

As I understand, these forums are not private. Ie. Google.  Maybe keep discussions on modes of recognition in a private forum.? 

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## jjjjjggggg

Though I haven't encountered this yet, I've heard a popular question has been, "traveling east?"

Though I look forward to making MM, and there is a ring I've been eying, I'm undecided whether or not I want to wear it on-duty, as I don't want someone to expect a favor or break because I'm a brother and I don't want there to ever be a question about my integrity.


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## dfreybur

jamie.guinn said:


> I'm undecided whether or not I want to wear it on-duty, as I don't want someone to expect a favor or break because I'm a brother and I don't want there to ever be a question about my integrity.



The brother who obligated me on my first degree is an LA County Sheriff deputy.  He wore his De Molay ring while one duty.


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## Brother_Steve

A mason should never assume another person is a mason.

I've met someone who is a mason but I've never sat in a lodge of Master Masons with him.

He gripped me right off the bat even when I was concealing my grip. It was the most awkward handshake I ever experienced. I felt like I was wrong to conceal because he was so forceful with the grip.


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## Warrior1256

I haven't been inducted yet but I find this to be very informative stuff.


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## Brother_Steve

Warrior1256 said:


> I haven't been inducted yet but I find this to be very informative stuff.


I think what we have come to experience in real life as a mason is not as glorified as the internet makes it out to be.


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## afterlodgejason

I think traveling man is the way to go here. I once asked a guy this who I had reason to believe was a brother. He said not really I rarely travel for work. He had no idea what I was eluding to and it was that strange of a question. 

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## Blake Bowden

I always ask "Are you a traveling man"


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## brother josh

Yea I asked a guy one time if he was a traveling man and I quote he said( I have been to Wisconsin a few times)


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## afterlodgejason

brother josh said:


> ( I have been to Wisconsin a few times)
> 
> 
> Sent From My Freemasonry Pro App



This will now be my standard answer to this question from now on. After his confused look I will then explain. 

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## jjjjjggggg

"PENCIL-VAIN-YUH" (producer Bruce voice)


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## AfterLodgeBruce

I actually recorded myself saying Pennsylvania about a half dozen different times, each with different inflections, and tones.  Although we ended up going with that one, I'm pretty sure that recording is still lurking around somewhere.  Maybe in another 10 shows or so, when we have enough "extras" to fill an hours worth of time, we can work that in there.


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## vangoedenaam

The way you guys say certain words is, well, interesting. But we digress, albeit masonically.


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## brother blaine

When I met another I just ask if he is a traveling brother and what lodge he belongs to, but I never talk of the inter workings of masonry unless it's in a tiled lodge 


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## vangoedenaam

There are some special questions we ask in my country, but discussing them here wouldnt be helpful... 


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## Go49ersuk

In the UK 'caution' and 'cautious' goes a long way.


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## brother blaine

Thank you brother it's nice meeting new brothers of the craft and getting to know them, we all know what goes on in the lodge if we are true brother of masonry no reason to bring up the inter workings of it, maybe just me but the ones that want to talk about the Inter workings maybe are outsiders 


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## marty15chris

I met a brother in the chow hall just yesterday. All I had to do was say"Hi I noticed your ring from across the room"  I introduced myself and what lodge I was from as did he and that was all that needed to be said. He is going to email the schedule for the lodge here and once we are at lodge we'll get a the formal questions asked and answered. 


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## Brother JC

I was signing a customer in for service yesterday and he asked me, "Are you a Mason?" I said yes, he said me, too, and a quick conversation followed. Turns out we've crossed paths at Officer Association meetings, but never actually met.


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## dfreybur

vangoedenaam said:


> The way you guys say certain words is, well, interesting. But we digress, albeit masonically.



That works well within a jurisdiction because it leads by a circuitous path to a discussion of local lodges.  Furthermore since the wording is different jurisdiction to jurisdiction the grand hail might not be noticed even by a brother.  Any obsolete or repetitive wording or grammar is worth checking on.


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## Virgin Islands Brother

Yea I asked a guy one time if he was a traveling man and I quote he said( I have been to Wisconsin a few times)

I'm sorry, but I'm running with this one. I will cite you as the source. However, I'm going to wear this out.


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## TheHelix

_I think it is kind of ridiculous to challenge, try or examine a man, you have never met in your entire life, just because you think or suspect he may be fraternal. Before I became a brother, I was at a church convention, wherein I was leading a Bible study and afterwards, an elderly gentleman walked up to me and asked.....Something tells me you are a traveling man.....working in advertising sales, all I could answer with was.....Yep, I travel a lot for work. Challenges and attempts at examination, should not be as easily shared aloud, as they sometimes are._


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## Ripcord22A

This discussion is not about modes of recognition its about how to ask someone if they are a Bro Mason.  I prefer the When were u raised approach.


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## AndreAshlar

Are you a mason?  Are you a traveling man?  Both are simple and straight forward.  They work for me.


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## Warrior1256

I was told simply to stick out my hand and say "Hi, I from St. Matthews Lodge 906 Kentucky, where are you from?"


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## Willaim Perkins

One of my favorites is "So where were you hit in the head?"


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## jwhoff

trysquare said:


> The questions I generally ask a man I believe to be a Brother are, "Are you a Mason?" and "Which Lodge do you belong to?"


Tricky!  But if they are listening close, they ought to be able to answer either of these.  I suppose.


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## cemab4y

I like to inject some humor!  Like "Watch out for those (number) guys"!    "They will hit you right in the (body part)"  or "I see you have kissed the (****), etc.


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## Jay Welch

I was asked by a Mason if I was a travelling man? To which I replied Yeah man aren't we all! I was not yet a Mason but I was most certainly a travelling man since I was working on a pipeline job hundreds of miles from home as were all the other men on the jobsite. It quickly became clear to the fellow that he had made a mistake. But all things happen for a reason, this guy turned out to be a very positive force in my life an is one of the biggest reasons that I eventually joined the lodge. An ole fellow that went by the nickname Popeye.  Popeye if you're out there I love you man thanks for all of your time! I would say keep it very simple and don't be bashful. I love being asked by brother Masons or Non Masons. I always walk away with a smile...and maybe a new friend!


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## BroBook

I heard a new one in the bank a couple of weeks ago " hey, I don't know you but there is a rumor, that you are a traveling man.


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## Dontrell Stroman

Companion Joe said:


> I generally use "I see you're a travelin' man" because I think it is a nice, friendly way to greet someone new. It's not a real method of "trying" someone, nor does it need to be. I am not going to meet someone for the first time in Walmart, a restaurant, or a party and start discussing Masonic degree work with them.
> 
> For that matter, if I bump into one of the members of my own lodge in one of those settings, esoteric work isn't going to really be discussed, either.
> 
> There is a difference between recognizing someone as a Mason and trying someone.


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## Canadian Paul

Mike Martin said:


> Same here!
> 
> Although I know that some of our Scots brethren like to ask each other how old their Mothers are, with the answer being the Lodge's number apparently.


I've heard of that question but if its asked of a member of a Scottish Lodge like me you may get some rather odd answers - in my case, "Sixteen hundred and seventy-nine"!


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## Warrior1256

Mike Martin said:


> Same here!
> 
> Although I know that some of our Scots brethren like to ask each other how old their Mothers are, with the answer being the Lodge's number apparently.


I have been asked this question but instead of "mother" it was "grand mother".


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## Vonte Kirkland

what are more questions that Mason's ask other Mason's in public


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## Vonte Kirkland

What are tricky questions another Mason may ask you if you're being tried


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## Dontrell Stroman

If you were a MM you would know ? Have you been initiated ?

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## acjohnson53

If I am lit up and I am approached some brothers would say there Lodge name, or we share thoughts on the weather. I meet a lot of brothers in the airport and they are very receptive by offering me assistance if needed...


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## acjohnson53

I see you brother Steve, they call me by my whole name Hiram


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## Bloke

Vonte Kirkland said:


> What are tricky questions another Mason may ask you if you're being tried



Are you going to finish that meal or can I have it ?


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## DwayneM

My late father was a PM, and I remember as a kid, whenever we'd see some "stranger" and him greet each other as old friends, we'd ask my mom,  "Fireman or Mason?" It was always one or the other. The only question we caught, though, was "I see you're a traveling man. " To which my father replied,  "Have you been to the East? "


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## Warrior1256

DwayneM said:


> My late father was a PM, and I remember as a kid, whenever we'd see some "stranger" and him greet each other as old friends, we'd ask my mom,  "Fireman or Mason?" It was always one or the other. The only question we caught, though, was "I see you're a traveling man. " To which my father replied,  "Have you been to the East? "


I've heard a similar exchange.


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## acjohnson53

I generally give my name and Lodge affiliation when approached...or Brothers approach me and give their name and Lodge affiliation..


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## Warrior1256

acjohnson53 said:


> I generally give my name and Lodge affiliation when approached...or Brothers approach me and give their name and Lodge affiliation..


Same here. When first raised I asked my mentor how he handled this time of situation. I thought that there must be some formal, secret way that Masons introduced themselves. He told me that he stuck out his hand and said "Hi. My name's Mark I'm from lodge so and so. What lodge are you from?'. So much for the secret greeting, lol.


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## RhushidaK

Well bringing back an old thread from the dead..
Are these questions location-dependent? Coz I've never been taught through any of the three degrees any of them.


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## Ripcord22A

They arent official in any jurisdiction....some PHA lodges do teach ways to "protect your light"

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## Warrior1256

Ripcord22A said:


> They arent official in any jurisdiction.


True. When I first joined I asked my mentor how I should respond if someone should ask me something like "Are you a traveling man?" I figured that there was some super secret reply. My mentor advised me to stick out my hand and say "Hi, I'm so and so from such and such lodge. Where are you from?" Lol.


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## Dontrell Stroman

I love those questions. 

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## jermy Bell

I know this post is way old, but here this past winter, I was wearing my masonic Hoodie out, when I had an older gentleman wearing a masonic ring ask me how old is my grandmother,  I was like huh ? So, I kindly nodded and left. When I got home I asked my father in law what that meant,  he replied that the gentleman was asking what my lodge number was.


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## jermy Bell

Brother_Steve said:


> A mason should never assume another person is a mason.
> 
> I've met someone who is a mason but I've never sat in a lodge of Master Masons with him.
> 
> He gripped me right off the bat even when I was concealing my grip. It was the most awkward handshake I ever experienced. I felt like I was wrong to conceal because he was so forceful with the grip.


I hele, I conceal, what do you conceal? All the secrets of masons in masonry.


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## Brother_Steve

jermy Bell said:


> I hele, I conceal, what do you conceal? All the secrets of masons in masonry.


Some have this glamorous view of fellow masons trying each other outside of Lodge. It may have been a common practice before regularity/recognition between lodges became the norm, but nowadays, it seems to be an act of rudeness to assume you have the right to try another man and "disqualify" him as a Mason even though he is in fact a Brother just because you didn't like his response.

One should really avoid masonic topics outside of Lodge unless you're with someone you know from lodge.

I'm weary of people I do not know that insist on discussing ritual with me after I explain to them that I'm not comfortable doing so because we just met and never sat together in Lodge. Those people either forgot their first lesson or are trying to pass themselves off as a mason.

To be honest, the one Brother I mentioned in the post you quoted of mine...Do you know how I knew he was most likely a mason? After exchanging lodge names, of which we both recognized, we talked for 40 minutes about everything but masonry!

I eventually made it up to his lodge to sit with him.


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## Warrior1256

Brother_Steve said:


> nowadays, it seems to be an act of rudeness to assume you have the right to try another man and "disqualify" him as a Mason even though he is in fact a Brother just because you didn't like his response.


I agree. I have even heard of some people telling some one that they have to give up the Masonic "bling" if they do not answer the questions to the other person's satisfaction. Yeah, right.


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## acjohnson53

I feel at this stage of masonry, i've been often tried, never denied and willing to be tried again, I travel all of the United States and approached by many Brothers who often extend their hand, as Brothers should do, or i could be sitting in an airport(i always have my ball cap on)Brothers would shoot me a sign and I would smile to show that i recognize them....


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## Warrior1256

acjohnson53 said:


> I travel all of the United States and approached by many Brothers who often extend their hand, as Brothers should do, or i could be sitting in an airport(i always have my ball cap on)Brothers would shoot me a sign and I would smile to show that i recognize them....


Very good, nothing wrong with this at all. But if someone that I have never laid eyes on before came up to me and started questioning me in such a way that to answer them would mean me divulging lawful Masonic information (trial) I would simply refuse to participate.


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## Matt L

I was in the Bahamas, my cab driver was wearing a S&C hat.  I said "I like your hat" he said, "thanks I died for it".


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## Warrior1256

Matt L said:


> I was in the Bahamas, my cab driver was wearing a S&C hat.  I said "I like your hat" he said, "thanks I died for it".


Good one!


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## Ripcord22A

Yeah i like that one

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## RayverInColorado

Me too 


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## Canadian Paul

jermy Bell said:


> I know this post is way old, but here this past winter, I was wearing my masonic Hoodie out, when I had an older gentleman wearing a masonic ring ask me how old is my grandmother,  I was like huh ? So, I kindly nodded and left. When I got home I asked my father in law what that meant,  he replied that the gentleman was asking what my lodge number was.



I have always wanted someone to ask me that question in public - just to see the faces of anyone overhearing my answer. (My lodge is Number 1679 on the roll of the Grand Lodge of Scotland!)


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## Brother_Steve

or the opposite...

two lodges in my district are 4 and 18. That would be strange indeed.


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## Brother JC

Yeah, my Mother is 1...


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## PM. Lewis

Brother JC said:


> The questions I generally ask a man I believe to be a Brother are, "Are you a Mason?" and "Which Lodge do you belong to?"



I like to keep it simple like the questions above because you just never know, especially in public. Also I prefer "Mines for yours" so we can swap dues cards and check IDs.


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## bupton52

PM. Lewis said:


> I like to keep it simple like the questions above because you just never know, especially in public. Also I prefer "Mines for yours" so we can swap dues cards and check IDs.



Why would swapping dues cards and IDs be appropriate in public if a brother is just speaking?


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## PM. Lewis

bupton52 said:


> Why would swapping dues cards and IDs be appropriate in public if a brother is just speaking?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using My Freemasonry mobile app


In that instance it wouldn't be.


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## Ripcord22A

Brother JC said:


> Yeah, my Mother is 1...


So is your aunt 19? Bwhaha

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## Bloke

Ripcord22A said:


> So is your aunt 19? Bwhaha
> 
> Sent from my LG-H918 using My Freemasonry mobile app



My grandmother's one and her child is two and her grandchild's seven


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## Warrior1256

Ripcord22A said:


> So is your aunt 19? Bwhaha
> 
> Sent from my LG-H918 using My Freemasonry mobile app





Bloke said:


> My grandmother's one and her child is two and her grandchild's seven


Wow! This would be very confusing to someone that doesn't actually understand it, lol.


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## Ripcord22A

I don't understand..

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## C Note

Bro. Michael said:


> A word of advice that I recently received about this. Though you are not wrong for asking the question, a person trying to pose as a Mason who is not, in fact, our Brother, may see this and use the information regarding these questions to better pretend his way into receiving the benefits of Masonry, even though he is not entitled to them. I made a similar post (fairly recently) and a Brother offered me this counsel which proved to be very useful. He also offered me this: "It is sometimes better to be overly cautious than not cautious enough"
> 
> Others here may disagree, but it seemed worth mentioning. After all, we are all always learning
> 
> If any Brother present, disagrees with this, then I would be glad to know your reasoning behind it. This is the counsel that I was offered, and it is only through the counsel of those wiser than ourselves that we may truly grow.


I usually reply with the standard statement of “ I am that I am”


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## David612

I have no intention of discussing secrets in public so whether someone is a brother or not is irrelevant, ultimately they might get a bit more superficial chit chat on the street


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## Warrior1256

David612 said:


> I have no intention of discussing secrets in public


Sounds good to me.


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## acjohnson53

I am often approached by Brother who greet me by giving their name and Lodge and often extend themselves to make sure I'm comfortable while I visit their town or city... In which that's what Brother do. To me it's not trying to try me for my Light. But to offer Brotherly Love, We should always Travel this way, regardless to our affiliation...


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## David612

acjohnson53 said:


> I am often approached by Brother who greet me by giving their name and Lodge and often extend themselves to make sure I'm comfortable while I visit their town or city... In which that's what Brother do. To me it's not trying to try me for my Light. But to offer Brotherly Love, We should always Travel this way, regardless to our affiliation...


Bingo


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## Warrior1256

acjohnson53 said:


> I am often approached by Brother who greet me by giving their name and Lodge and often extend themselves to make sure I'm comfortable while I visit their town or city.


This is the way that it should be, a simple introduction and invitation. Funny story.....when I was first brought into Masonry I asked my mentor how I should respond if someone were to ask me something like "Are you headed East?" I thought that there would be some ritualistic answer. He advised me to stick out my hand and say "My name is Larry Herron and I'm from St. Matthews Lodge 906. What lodge are you from?"


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## David612

Warrior1256 said:


> This is the way that it should be, a simple introduction and invitation. Funny story.....when I was first brought into Masonry I asked my mentor how I should respond if someone were to ask me something like "Are you headed East?" I thought that there would be some ritualistic answer. He advised me to stick out my hand and say "My name is Larry Herron and I'm from St. Matthews Lodge 906. What lodge are you from?"


Yep... that’s exactly it.
As fun as living out the train scene from “the man who would be king” in daily life would be...


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## Warrior1256

David612 said:


> Yep... that’s exactly it.
> As fun as living out the train scene from “the man who would be king” in daily life would be...


Lol!


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## David612

Good film if you haven’t seen it


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## pmvi

yes great movie indeed. happy new year to all my brethren's


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## Dontrell Stroman

David612 said:


> Yep... that’s exactly it.
> As fun as living out the train scene from “the man who would be king” in daily life would be...


What is the name of this movie ?? 

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## Glen Cook

Travelling Man91 said:


> What is the name of this movie ??
> 
> Sent from my LG-LS997 using My Freemasonry mobile app


The Man Who Would Be King


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## Dontrell Stroman

Glen Cook said:


> The Man Who Would Be King


There has been many discussions on this board about Mason's indulging in "street talk". This movie explains how Mason's can meet on the street without exchanging dues cards.

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## pmvi

I have not yet experienced having to show  my due card in public nor i dont believe it is neccessary!.


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## Warrior1256

pmvi said:


> I have not yet experienced having to show my due card in public nor i dont believe it is neccessary!.


I can't think of ANY reason why I would show my dues card(s) in public!


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## David612

Why would you need to confirm anyone’s standing when meeting randoms In public?


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## AndreAshlar

I've never felt the need to prove anything publicly. Never will. 

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## Warrior1256

David612 said:


> Why would you need to confirm anyone’s standing when meeting randoms In public?





AndreAshlar said:


> I've never felt the need to prove anything publicly. Never will.


Exactly!


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## Dontrell Stroman

Brethren, if you go back to older threads you will find discussions concerning "Masonic intercourse on the street". Many have argued you wont know who is truly a mason unless you have sat in lodge with them. This movie clearly shows how one could know another mason. Granted its a movie, but still relevant reguarding recent posts. The reason I brought dues cards up is because many believe this is the only sure way to know another brother, but again this movie somewhat proves that theory wrong.

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## dfreybur

David612 said:


> Why would you need to confirm anyone’s standing when meeting randoms In public?



To prove your own ignorance and insecurity.  If someone actually mandated it of me I'd laugh in their face.  Prima facia demonstration they are a member of a clandestine lodge to make such a demand.

It's trivial to know if a man is a Brother without any of the buzzwords or documentation.  Trade a few comments about events at lodge, though I have noticed Masons and Oddfellows can have each other rolling on the floor laughing by trading jokes about lodge events.


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## pmvi

Been tried, never denied, and willing to be tried again.... good morning all!


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## Dontrell Stroman

dfreybur said:


> To prove your own ignorance and insecurity.  If someone actually mandated it of me I'd laugh in their face.  Prima facia demonstration they are a member of a clandestine lodge to make such a demand.
> 
> It's trivial to know if a man is a Brother without any of the buzzwords or documentation.  Trade a few comments about events at lodge, though I have noticed Masons and Oddfellows can have each other rolling on the floor laughing by trading jokes about lodge events.


Im not disagreeing with you, I dont try brothers on the street, but if a man needed something that required me to completely go out of my way and he identified himself as a freemason I would want to know if he was a brother in good standing and of a recongized GL. Many ask what difference does it make, hes a man in need ?? My response to this is "I will go the extra mile for a brother mason" you may disagree and Im completly fine with that.

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----------



## CLewey44

Travelling Man91 said:


> Im not disagreeing with you, I dont try brothers on the street, but if a man needed something that was completely out of my way and he identified as a freemason, I would want to know if he was a brother in good standing and of a recongized GL. Many ask what difference does it make, hes a man in need ?? My response to this is "I will go the extra mile for a brother mason" you may disagree and Im completly fine with it.
> 
> Sent from my LG-LS997 using My Freemasonry mobile app



I feel you and agree with the last part for sure. If we can't do that then what was the point of some of those obligations we took.


----------



## Warrior1256

dfreybur said:


> If someone actually mandated it of me I'd laugh in their face.


Same here.


dfreybur said:


> Prima facia demonstration they are a member of a clandestine lodge to make such a demand.


Very possible.


dfreybur said:


> Trade a few comments about events at lodge


This is exactly how I would react if someone identified himself as a Mason to me. I'd stick out my paw, introduce myself, and inform him of the lodges that I belong to and ask about his. However, there would be no "trial" or exchange of lawful Masonic information.


----------



## Warrior1256

Travelling Man91 said:


> Many ask what difference does it make, hes a man in need ?? My response to this is "I will go the extra mile for a brother mason" you may disagree and Im completly fine with it.


Absolutely!


CLewey44 said:


> I feel you and agree with the last part for sure. If we can't do that then what was the point of some of those obligations we took.


Agreed!


----------



## Dontrell Stroman

Warrior1256 said:


> Same here.
> 
> Very possible.
> 
> This is exactly how I would react if someone identified himself as a Mason to me. I'd stick out my paw, introduce myself, and inform him of the lodges that I belong to and ask about his. However, there would be no "trial" or exchange of lawful Masonic information.


Thats where the confusion lies. Asking a few question concerning his affiliation and standings doesnt constitute a "Trial" for me. I think we are getting the "Examination" portion of how a visiting brother is done when trying to gain admission into a lodge confused with simple basic questions one mason can ask another. Granted, these questions can be learned online or from a duncan ritual but non the less these questions help you identity who is really a mason. 

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----------



## dfreybur

Travelling Man91 said:


> Im not disagreeing with you, I dont try brothers on the street, but if a man needed something that required me to completely go out of my way and he identified himself as a freemason I would want to know if he was a brother in good standing and of a recongized GL. Many ask what difference does it make, hes a man in need ?? My response to this is "I will go the extra mile for a brother mason" you may disagree and Im completly fine with that.



That's a good distinction.  If I give the sign of distress it's on me to show my dues card.  If it's a social meeting, it's on me to laugh.

If there isn't time I'll fly to the relief and exchange dues cards later.  First, let's work together to push that car off the railroad tracks before we hear a train coming.  Whew, that done let's show each other our cards.


----------



## Dontrell Stroman

dfreybur said:


> That's a good distinction.  If I give the sign of distress it's on me to show my dues card.  If it's a social meeting, it's on me to laugh.
> 
> If there isn't time I'll fly to the relief and exchange dues cards later.  First, let's work together to push that car off the railroad tracks before we hear a train coming.  Whew, that done let's show each other our cards.


Good point. Agreed. If I met you on the the street say you had on a ball cap and I approached wanting to be social about masonry (what lodge you hail from, and masonic events) I see no need to show dues cards as we are not talking masonic just about the masonic lodge lol. If you gave the GHSD for such an event where your car was stuck and a train was coming I would not ask for your dues card. Now say after I helped you move your car and you asked me to take you down the road three hours I would probably ask for a dues card because that is completely out of my way, but for a brother mason I found to be worthy I would.

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----------



## frehm

Just ask "Are you a Mason?"
Then you follow the secret ways of recognizing a brother with words and grip.


----------



## David612

frehm said:


> Just ask "Are you a Mason?"
> Then you follow the secret ways of recognizing a brother with words and grip.


I disagree, words and grips have no place outside of the temple, unless working with a brother to learn.

The point is that a random in the streets standing at lodge is irrelevant, you don’t know this person from Adam.
Should they be distressed and need your assistance I would help them in the same manner I would help anyone.
Additionally calling on brothers to produce dues cards may be and issue aswell, as far as I know it’s only the US that use due cards.


----------



## hiram357

David612 said:


> I disagree, words and grips have no place outside of the temple, unless working with a brother to learn.



Really? What's the point then? Either the ritual has meaning or it doesn't. It's quite clearly stated that grips are for knowing a Brother in "darkness as well as light", which would imply, at least to me, that they can be used anytime, anywhere. Now, an argument can be made that they are perhaps inutile in these times when a cowan can easily find them in a book or on the internet, but to limit them to use inside the Lodge is an exercise in futility.


----------



## David612

hiram357 said:


> Really? What's the point then? Either the ritual has meaning or it doesn't. It's quite clearly stated that grips are for knowing a Brother in "darkness as well as light", which would imply, at least to me, that they can be used anytime, anywhere. Now, an argument can be made that they are perhaps inutile in these times when a cowan can easily find them in a book or on the internet, but to limit them to use inside the Lodge is an exercise in futility.


I would argue it’s more important to protect the secrets you took an obligation to protect by not testing randoms in the street when their standing in a lodge, regular or not has no bearing on the interaction, being prudent on when one should put someone under the usual Masonic scrutiny is another way to guard our secrets.
Should this person want to visit your lodge then the time to test them is prior to being allowed through the west gate.


----------



## Bloke

David612 said:


> I would argue it’s more important to protect the secrets you took an obligation to protect by not testing randoms in the street when their standing in a lodge, regular or not has no bearing on the interaction, being prudent on when one should put someone under the usual Masonic scrutiny is another way to guard our secrets.
> Should this person want to visit your lodge then the time to test them is prior to being allowed through the west gate.


Which is outside lodge... just say'n


----------



## David612

Bloke said:


> Which is outside lodge... just say'n


You cheeky so n so, personally I was fortunate to learn in a convenient pub adjoining the lodge with knowing nods replacing some elements. realistically I couldn’t care if people want to test each other all day long if it is actually relevant to upholding our obligations but public testing of randoms for the sake of getting to use modes of recognition is silly.

would you not help this person if they wherent a mason?


----------



## Brother JC

“These generous principles are to extend further. Every human being has a claim upon your kind offices.”


----------



## Dontrell Stroman

Again, who said anything about testing a brother, which is the same as an examination. I clearly said ask a couple of questions. Not the full long drawn out process. I have to disagree with grips etc only being used in lodge. Maybe your jurisdiction teaches that but mine does not. In the case where a brother doesnt have a dues card then we will go from there. Point im making, "Freemasonry is about brothers taking care of brothers" im going out of my way to help a worthy brother verses a complete stranger. 

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----------



## Dontrell Stroman

frehm said:


> Just ask "Are you a Mason?"
> Then you follow the secret ways of recognizing a brother with words and grip.


This question is fine if were just dicussing when our lodge meets and what appendent body we belong to. But If a man identifies as a freemason and is asking for help as a freemason he is getting asked more than just "Are you a freemason". 

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## David612

Making good men better, to other masons.

I think the teachings are supposed to extend to all people, not just your brothers.


----------



## Dontrell Stroman

David612 said:


> Making good men better, to other masons.
> 
> I think the teachings are supposed to extend to all people, not just your brothers.


I agree and disagree. The teaching express and go into dept about taking care of your fellow brother mason. This is not to say we arent suppose to help others out, but I get so tired of masons speaking as if we are obligated to everyone as if they are the same as a brother mason. In my opinion there is a difference.

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----------



## David612

Travelling Man91 said:


> I agree and disagree. The teaching express and go into dept about taking care of your fellow brother mason. This is not to say we arent suppose to help others out, but I get so tired of masons speaking as if we are obligated to everyone as if they are the same as a brother mason. In my opinion there is a difference.
> 
> Sent from my LG-LS997 using My Freemasonry mobile app


Fair enough, I personally am cautious with charity as I have spent a lot of time on people who asked for help but wherent in a position to make use of it.
Now I extend my help to deserving people, Masons invariably are deserving as I know at a base level they are fundamentally good people even when we don’t see eye to eye,
That said should any other good person reasonably call on me for help I would treat them as a brother, be they man, woman or child.


----------



## Dontrell Stroman

David612 said:


> Fair enough, I personally am cautious with charity as I have spent a lot of time on people who asked for help but wherent in a position to make use of it.
> Now I extend my help to deserving people, Masons invariably are deserving as I know at a base level they are fundamentally good people even when we don’t see eye to eye,
> That said should any other good person reasonably call on me for help I would treat them as a brother, be they man, woman or child.


I think for the most part we can all agree to that. Helping anyone in need is the right thing to do, but dont confuse making the decision to help as being the same as obligated to help.

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----------



## David612

Travelling Man91 said:


> I think for the most part we can all agree to that. Helping anyone in need is the right thing to do, but dont confuse making the decision to help as being the same as obligated to help.
> 
> Sent from my LG-LS997 using My Freemasonry mobile app


I belive it to be an obligation as a person of the world who is fortunate enough to be in a position to help my fellow man be they a mason or not.
Striving to be a better person, in my opinion, should have a man looking beyond the bounds of creed, religion and lodge affiliation etc.
Consider the north east charge while it speakes to a brother in distress I would like to think it extends beyond the bounds of fraternal brotherhood.
Granted I may go the extra mile for someone who is a mason but that will be because they are also my friend.
Just my 2c


----------



## pmvi

Going the extra mile for my brethren is in my opinion only is what i want to do, because i would like it done to me in a especially in a foreign country etc. True story, i had a brother from spain migrate to canada with his family, with no relatives he decided to find a lodge and found one knocked and now he had brothers all around the city and province, we do the small things that make big differences in ones lives.


----------



## MarkR

If the _*modes of identification*_ are not to be used outside of a tyled lodge, then there's no need for them whatsoever.  I know the brothers in lodge.  I've been gripped on the streets of cities in Scotland.


----------



## Dontrell Stroman

David612 said:


> I belive it to be an obligation as a person of the world who is fortunate enough to be in a position to help my fellow man be they a mason or not.
> Striving to be a better person, in my opinion, should have a man looking beyond the bounds of creed, religion and lodge affiliation etc.
> Consider the north east charge while it speakes to a brother in distress I would like to think it extends beyond the bounds of fraternal brotherhood.
> Granted I may go the extra mile for someone who is a mason but that will be because they are also my friend.
> Just my 2c


in deeper meanings our obligation may extend to the outside world, but I literally took my obligation to help a fellow worthy brother Mason if within the length.................

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----------



## Warrior1256

Travelling Man91 said:


> in deeper meanings our obligation may extend to the outside world, but I literally took my obligation to help a fellow worthy brother Mason if within the length.................


Agreed.


----------



## pmvi

Agree also


----------



## LK600

Testing and being able to recognize a Brother on the street, in my opinion are vastly different things.  You want to make sure I'm a Brother?  I'm fine with that.  You want to test me for no real reason, Don't waste my time.  Want to take my things?  Prepare to have a bad day.

     While I will do my best to help anyone within my line of sight, I will go out of my way to assist a Brother.  Charity in Freemasonry actually refers to kindness, and while we are to show kindness to all, our obligation to each other is on another level as it should be.


----------



## Dontrell Stroman

LK600 said:


> Testing and being able to recognize a Brother on the street, in my opinion are vastly different things.  You want to make sure I'm a Brother?  I'm fine with that.  You want to test me for no real reason, Don't waste my time.  Want to take my things?  Prepare to have a bad day.
> 
> While I will do my best to help anyone within my line of sight, I will go out of my way to assist a Brother.  Charity in Freemasonry actually refers to kindness, and while we are to show kindness to all, our obligation to each other is on another level as it should be.


I cant agree more. Very well said brother. I am against testing someone on the street for the sole purpose of finding out what he knows about masonry. I find it pointless and immature. If your concerned about what I know attend my lodge during lecture night and we can discuss all you want. Thats if ! he can pass the same examination to gain admission into the lodge he is trying to give me on the street .

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----------



## pmvi

LK600 said:


> Testing and being able to recognize a Brother on the street, in my opinion are vastly different things.  You want to make sure I'm a Brother?  I'm fine with that.  You want to test me for no real reason, Don't waste my time.  Want to take my things?  Prepare to have a bad day.
> 
> While I will do my best to help anyone within my line of sight, I will go out of my way to assist a Brother.  Charity in Freemasonry actually refers to kindness, and while we are to show kindness to all, our obligation to each other is on another level as it should be.




Well said


----------



## hanzosbm

I think that there's another facet of this that hasn't been discussed.  I will sometimes use little clues ('are you a traveling man', etc) purely because if they are not a Mason, I don't necessarily want them knowing that I am.  Freemasonry generally has a positive reputation, but there are still lots of crazies out there who believe the conspiracy theories, and I have no desire to accidently step into their accusations.  I enjoy meeting brothers I haven't previously met, so I'm all for approaching a stranger who, for one reason or another has given a hint at being a Mason (a ring or S&C...I wouldn't bother, I'd just come out and introduce myself as a Mason) cautiously.


----------



## Dontrell Stroman

hanzosbm said:


> I think that there's another facet of this that hasn't been discussed.  I will sometimes use little clues ('are you a traveling man', etc) purely because if they are not a Mason, I don't necessarily want them knowing that I am.  Freemasonry generally has a positive reputation, but there are still lots of crazies out there who believe the conspiracy theories, and I have no desire to accidently step into their accusations.  I enjoy meeting brothers I haven't previously met, so I'm all for approaching a stranger who, for one reason or another has given a hint at being a Mason (a ring or S&C...I wouldn't bother, I'd just come out and introduce myself as a Mason) cautiously.


I didnt want to come out and say it, but yes little subtle questions like you stated helps you identity who is a freemason. 

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----------



## David612

Personally I don’t care who knows I’m a mason but i also don’t broadcast it, to the average guy on the street it makes no difference.

I have had a few times where for example a guy has pulled out a zippo with knights templar motifs and wears rings with Templar iconography on it I notice and ask if he’s a traveling man and get blank looks back, try again and ask are you a mason? Again to returning blank looks..
He couldn’t have been more confused.
He just thought knights where cool.


----------



## Warrior1256

LK600 said:


> Want to take my things? Prepare to have a bad day.


Absolutely!


LK600 said:


> While I will do my best to help anyone within my line of sight, I will go out of my way to assist a Brother.





LK600 said:


> while we are to show kindness to all, our obligation to each other is on another level as it should be.


Absolutely!


hanzosbm said:


> Freemasonry generally has a positive reputation, but there are still lots of crazies out there who believe the conspiracy theories, and I have no desire to accidently step into their accusations.


Can't blame you there.


David612 said:


> Personally I don’t care who knows I’m a mason but i also don’t broadcast it, to the average guy on the street it makes no difference.


I wear a Masonic ring and a Knight Templar ring as well as Masonic or appendant polo shirts so I guess that I am a walking advertisement, lol.


----------



## David612

Warrior1256 said:


> Absolutely!
> 
> 
> Absolutely!
> 
> Can't blame you there.
> 
> I wear a Masonic ring and a Knight Templar ring as well as Masonic or appendant polo shirts so I guess that I am a walking advertisement, lol.


Very much a different culture, no one I have seen wears any Masonic clothes, just don’t feel the need I guess.


----------



## Dontrell Stroman

David612 said:


> Personally I don’t care who knows I’m a mason but i also don’t broadcast it, to the average guy on the street it makes no difference.
> 
> I have had a few times where for example a guy has pulled out a zippo with knights templar motifs and wears rings with Templar iconography on it I notice and ask if he’s a traveling man and get blank looks back, try again and ask are you a mason? Again to returning blank looks..
> He couldn’t have been more confused.
> He just thought knights where cool.


Prime example of a basic question that you asked and you were able to determine he was not a mason. 

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----------



## Bro Book

I wear a square circle almost always since 84 , when it is noticed and inquired about , I have lil replies that convince people Quick, if they know and shut them down if they don't, my favorite is something like I was grave robbing or something, or what you know about that? their response whatever it is will inform the well informed !!! !

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----------



## Glen Cook

David612 said:


> ...Masons invariably are deserving as I know at a base level they are fundamentally good....



Sigh. If only it were so.


----------



## LK600

Glen Cook said:


> Sigh. If only it were so.


Don't destroy my make believe world!


----------



## Dontrell Stroman

Bro Book said:


> I wear a square circle almost always since 84 , when it is noticed and inquired about , I have lil replies that convince people Quick, if they know and shut them down if they don't, my favorite is something like I was grave robbing or something, or what you know about that? their response whatever it is will inform the well informed !!! !
> 
> Sent from my RCT6973W43 using My Freemasonry mobile app


"What you know about that" is a very common phrase where I live. Normally when a brother responds in this kind of way I just say I know a little and end the conversation because in previous conversations it turned into a "examination" on the street over just inquiring over a symbol. Might I add, more common amongst PHA masons in my jusdriction. **Before anyone gets their undies in a wad and claim its not just PHA masons that do it, I am a PHA mason and im speaking from my experience in my jusdriction and even more so my district.

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----------



## David612

Travelling Man91 said:


> "What you know about that" is a very common phrase where I live. Normally when a brother responds in this kind of way I just say I know a little and end the conversation because in previous conversations it turned into a "examination" on the street over just inquiring over a symbol.
> 
> Sent from my LG-LS997 using My Freemasonry mobile app



Exactly the right way to go in my opinion, I love talking masonry, esoterics and philosophy with people but not at the checkout line.
I’m happy to hang out with anyone and have a civil discussion over a meal, beer or both but there are unfortunately people out there that are jackasses and life’s better with out em imposing their opinions on you.


----------



## Dontrell Stroman

David612 said:


> Exactly the right way to go in my opinion, I love talking masonry, esoterics and philosophy with people but not at the checkout line.
> I’m happy to hang out with anyone and have a civil discussion over a meal, beer or both but there are unfortunately people out there that are jackasses and life’s better with out em imposing their opinions on you.


Agreed brother. Finding brothers that "Enjoy" discussing Freemasonry with the intent to learn and share knowledge can at times be difficult. Im not interested in discussing masonry with brothers that want to belittle other brothers and prove their "superiority knowledge" over another. We can all learn something from each other. 

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----------



## pmvi

Travelling Man91 said:


> Agreed brother. Finding brothers that "Enjoy" discussing Freemasonry with the intent to learn and share knowledge can at times be difficult. Im not interested in discussing masonry with brothers that want to belittle other brothers and prove their "superiority knowledge" over another. We can all learn something from each other.
> 
> Sent from my LG-LS997 using My Freemasonry mobile app




Caring is sharing, sharing is learning


----------



## David612

Travelling Man91 said:


> Agreed brother. Finding brothers that "Enjoy" discussing Freemasonry with the intent to learn and share knowledge can at times be difficult. Im not interested in discussing masonry with brothers that want to belittle other brothers and prove their "superiority knowledge" over another. We can all learn something from each other.
> 
> Sent from my LG-LS997 using My Freemasonry mobile app


Totally agreed, I think something fairly unique to Freemasonry is that so often both parties can be correct in their opinions and yet disagree with one another based solely on slight ritual changes, wording, local customs or what have you.
Ultimately however I think we all take slightly different eastbound paths.


----------



## Dontrell Stroman

David612 said:


> Totally agreed, I think something fairly unique to Freemasonry is that so often both parties can be correct in their opinions and yet disagree with one another based solely on slight ritual changes, wording, local customs or what have you.
> Ultimately however I think we all take slightly different eastbound paths.


Correct. Example: I went to visit a GA lodge recently and the wording in the ritual varied slightly. After the meeting was over me and another brother dicussed the differences from his jurisdiction to mine. As I was sharing differences about my jurisdiction, he stopped me and told me we were doing it all wrong. Long story short he was closed minded and believed it was GA way or the highway. Point made, instead of arguing about which ritual is right and what makes more sense, embrace the differences.

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----------



## Bloke

David612 said:


> You cheeky so n so, personally I was fortunate to learn in a convenient pub adjoining the lodge with knowing nods replacing some elements. realistically I couldn’t care if people want to test each other all day long if it is actually relevant to upholding our obligations but public testing of randoms for the sake of getting to use modes of recognition is silly.
> 
> would you not help this person if they wherent a mason?


I believe in helping people as much as I can, regardless of who they are.... but I would be much more open to taking a risk helping a Brother than a stranger.


----------



## David612

Bloke said:


> I believe in helping people as much as I can, regardless of who they are.... but I would be much more open to taking a risk helping a Brother than a stranger.


True, the thing about masons is that you KNOW they are at some level a good person, you may not agree with them on everything but at a fundamental level, they are well intentioned.
Generally.
Theoretically.
I like to think.


----------



## Glen Cook

LK600 said:


> Don't destroy my make believe world!


Lo siento hermano.


----------



## Glen Cook

David612 said:


> True, the thing about masons is that you KNOW they are at some level a good person, you may not agree with them on everything but at a fundamental level, they are well intentioned.
> Generally.
> Theoretically.
> I like to think.


Generally, Masons are good people. Generally, most people are good people. In 35 years of practice as an attorney and judge, I’ve only met a handful of truly bad people. However, having been involved in over 100 Masonic body disciplinary matters, I  know that not all Masons are well intentioned.  

The salve is that we, as Masons, do care, and we do have processes to protect the title of Mason.


----------



## LK600

Glen Cook said:


> Lo siento hermano.



No necesitas disculparte, La verdad algunas veces hiere.


----------



## MarkR

David612 said:


> True, the thing about masons is that you KNOW they are at some level a good person, you may not agree with them on everything but at a fundamental level, they are well intentioned.
> Generally.
> Theoretically.
> I like to think.


Nah.  I had an uncle (now deceased) who was not at all a good person.  He was fired from his police department in a corruption scandal.  He ran a business, and told his son "you have to cheat your friends; your enemies don't do business with you."  He became a Mason so he could become a Shriner so he could be on the Shrine motorcycle drill team.


----------



## David612

MarkR said:


> Nah.  I had an uncle (now deceased) who was not at all a good person.  He was fired from his police department in a corruption scandal.  He ran a business, and told his son "you have to cheat your friends; your enemies don't do business with you."  He became a Mason so he could become a Shriner so he could be on the Shrine motorcycle drill team.


How was he admitted with a significant corruption scandal to his name?


----------



## Warrior1256

Glen Cook said:


> Sigh. If only it were so.





LK600 said:


> Don't destroy my make believe world!


Lol!


Bro Book said:


> I wear a square circle


I am not familiar with this term.


----------



## Brother_Steve

Warrior1256 said:


> Bro Book said:
> 
> 
> 
> I wear a square circle almost always since 84 ,
> 
> 
> 
> I am not familiar with this term.
Click to expand...


Too many pancakes making square masons round!

Jurisdictional, but think of the FC proficiency. Particularly towards the beginning. At least this is what I'm being reminded of by the term.


----------



## LK600

Brother_Steve said:


> Too many pancakes making square masons round!



It is well established that if the default shape of a group of people is round, you are no longer overweight but conisdered well within the realm of normal and appropriate.


----------



## Brother JC

Travelling Man91 said:


> I went to visit a GA lodge recently and the wording in the ritual varied slightly. After the meeting was over me and another brother dicussed the differences from his jurisdiction to mine. As I was sharing differences about my jurisdiction, he stopped me and told me we were doing it all wrong. Long story short he was closed minded and believed it was GA way or the highway. Point made, instead of arguing about which ritual is right and what makes more sense, embrace the differences.


This is such a ridiculous notion. I doubt any GL in this country works _exactly_ the same way as any other. One of the things I love about our Craft is the variation between Grand Lodges, and even Lodges.
It's sad that there are members out there who are so short-sighted. I'm guessing he's never traveled outside his jurisdiction...


----------



## Dontrell Stroman

Brother JC said:


> This is such a ridiculous notion. I doubt any GL in this country works _exactly_ the same way as any other. One of the things I love about our Craft is the variation between Grand Lodges, and even Lodges.
> It's sad that there are members out there who are so short-sighted. I'm guessing he's never traveled outside his jurisdiction...


I dont believe so. I've invited him to my lodge and he has yet to come.

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----------



## Warrior1256

Brother_Steve said:


> Jurisdictional, but think of the FC proficiency. Particularly towards the beginning. At least this is what I'm being reminded of by the term.


I think I have it, thanks Brother.


Brother JC said:


> One of the things I love about our Craft is the variation between Grand Lodges, and even Lodges.


Yeah, here things are different from lodge to lodge let alone jurisdiction to jurisdiction. The GL of Kentucky recognizes four different ritual books. As long as you base your openings, closings and ritual on one of these you are in compliance with the GL


----------



## Bloke

Travelling Man91 said:


> ...... As I was sharing differences about my jurisdiction, he stopped me and told me we were doing it all wrong. ......




That brother's never heard of the small event of 1751 being the split betweem "ancients" and "moderns" which divided Freemasonry for about 60 years and which still ripples through our ceremonies and structure..


----------



## Bloke

David612 said:


> How was he admitted with a significant corruption scandal to his name?


Assuming the scandal was pre-initiation, i would presume  because he did not have a serious conviction, was seen as fulfilling prerequisites, had propsers, was not blackballed.

Im not surprised someone replied to your absolute statement about all Freemasons being good. Every barrel will have its bad apples.


----------



## dfreybur

Travelling Man91 said:


> As I was sharing differences about my jurisdiction, he stopped me and told me we were doing it all wrong



Those are words that need an echo chamber to make them sound like an announcer on a cheesy TV commercial - Other jurisdictions are doing it wrong.

It's almost as funny as a Big Bang Theory with the physicists telling the geologists they're doing it wrong.


----------



## David612

Bloke said:


> Assuming the scandal was pre-initiation, i would presume  because he did not have a serious conviction, was seen as fulfilling prerequisites, had propsers, was not blackballed.
> 
> Im not surprised someone replied to your absolute statement about all Freemasons being good. Every barrel will have its bad apples.


Quite right too, hence my trepidation at the end of the post. 
Thing is in my jurisdiction every mason I have met have been at least decent to me, beyond that I couldn’t really care.
The way people choose to live their lives is their business and as long as their behaviour that I have experienced is decent they are fine in my books as that’s all I expect from them, im not in a position to be passing judgment on anyone so I just handle my own affairs and should someone ask for help I’ll assess the request on its merit.

If you get hung up on people not behaving the way you feel they should you are in for a life of disappointment.


----------



## acjohnson53

Meet and Greet that's all that need to be said.....


----------



## MarkR

David612 said:


> How was he admitted with a significant corruption scandal to his name?


  He was already a Mason and Shriner long before the scandal.  And as far as I understand it (he and my dad weren't speaking to each other) he was not criminally charged, just allowed to "retire" without his pension.

My only point was that he was not a good man, and he was a Mason.  Once when I was talking to my older brother about Masonry, he brought up Uncle Bill.  I could only say "not everyone who kneels at the altar of Masonry really tries to live their obligations."


----------



## David612

MarkR said:


> He was already a Mason and Shriner long before the scandal.  And as far as I understand it (he and my dad weren't speaking to each other) he was not criminally charged, just allowed to "retire" without his pension.
> 
> My only point was that he was not a good man, and he was a Mason.  Once when I was talking to my older brother about Masonry, he brought up Uncle Bill.  I could only say "not everyone who kneels at the altar of Masonry really tries to live their obligations."


Unfortunately I haven’t met these people nor the circumstances so I can’t really judge the situation, however this does reinforce my position of being conservative when deciding to extend charity to deserving people but generous when I do.


----------



## Warrior1256

Bloke said:


> Every barrel will have its bad apples.


Sad but true.


----------



## Warrior1256

Travelling Man91 said:


> I went to visit a GA lodge recently and the wording in the ritual varied slightly. After the meeting was over me and another brother dicussed the differences from his jurisdiction to mine. As I was sharing differences about my jurisdiction, he stopped me and told me we were doing it all wrong.


Sounds a lot like some Past Masters that I know, lol.


Bloke said:


> I would be much more open to taking a risk helping a Brother than a stranger.


Same here.


----------



## pmvi

have any of you encountered a brethren who has hyperhidrosis (sweaty palms) when gripping? how do you react to it?


----------



## CLewey44

Hand sanitizer or 'bathroom break' to wash them. That's just me.


----------



## Warrior1256

CLewey44 said:


> Hand sanitizer or 'bathroom break' to wash them. That's just me.


Lol....I'll remember this.


----------



## CLewey44

Even though sweat is pretty clean it's still like. "yeessshhh, is that just sweat or what?"


----------



## Warrior1256

CLewey44 said:


> Even though sweat is pretty clean it's still like. "yeessshhh, is that just sweat or what?"


Oh, I totally understand Brother.


----------



## LK600

pmvi said:


> have any of you encountered a brethren who has hyperhidrosis (sweaty palms) when gripping? how do you react to it?


I would hope that at the point I'd be shaking his hand, he'd be self aware.  Beyond that, what Clewey44 said.


----------



## CLewey44

LK600 said:


> I would hope that at the point I'd be shaking his hand, he'd be self aware.  Beyond that, what Clewey44 said.


Wasn't the FC degree outstanding? Probably my favorite. Beautiful degree.


----------



## LK600

I thoroughly enjoyed it this weekend.  Tonight I'll start preparing/studying for it's return.


----------



## Symthrell

LK600 said:


> I thoroughly enjoyed it this weekend.  Tonight I'll start preparing/studying for it's return.


Congrats on being "Passed" ! FC was a really wonderful degree! I am glad you enjoyed it!!

As to the question originally to start this thread, yesterday a gentleman asked me the old "How old is your grandmother?". I answered and we spoke for a bit outside the store I had just left.


----------



## Bloke

pmvi said:


> have any of you encountered a brethren who has hyperhidrosis (sweaty palms) when gripping? how do you react to it?


That's what the gloves are for ! LOL

That said, when the gloves are off (in the context of brotherly love) just remember, he's obviously feeling more pressure than you are !


----------



## MarkR

Bloke said:


> That's what the gloves are for ! LOL
> 
> That said, when the gloves are off (in the context of brotherly love) just remember, he's obviously feeling more pressure than you are !


We don't wear gloves in my jurisdiction.


----------



## Warrior1256

Symthrell said:


> yesterday a gentleman asked me the old "How old is your grandmother?". I answered and we spoke for a bit outside the store I had just left.


Yeah, I have heard this one before.


----------



## acjohnson53

The question is always asked "How do you recognize a Brother in the Dark?" By his Grip"


----------



## David612

acjohnson53 said:


> The question is always asked "How do you recognize a Brother in the Dark?" By his Grip"


So you should use the grips when meeting any man of mature age in hopes of recognition?


----------



## Bloke

David612 said:


> So you should use the grips when meeting any man of mature age in hopes of recognition?


While many do, I don't. However, I will often wear a S&Q when at functions, that's the tool I use, and unless admitting someone to a lodge, or talking the specifics of degrees, there is no real reason to prove a man a Fremason.

I also find, the following- every heard of "gay-dar" which refers to the ability of one person to pick another as gay ? I have "free-dar" where I often sense someone is a brother... but I dont use a grip, I tend to throw in some words if I want to probe, or, simply ask.. My proposer was a master of this, he'd meet a guy and suddenly they'd be talking Lodge, really without anything especially happening, I'm not that good at it yet, but working on it


----------



## Warrior1256

Bloke said:


> unless admitting someone to a lodge, or talking the specifics of degrees, there is no real reason to prove a man a Fremason.


This is the way that I look at it. If a guy I just meet says that he is a Freemason I will ask what lodge he belongs to and chit chat a bit but I am not about to start sharing lawful Masonic information with him.


----------



## acjohnson53

yep


----------



## David612

I guess I just don’t get it..
I see no reason to quiz people claiming to be Masons in public...


----------



## Warrior1256

David612 said:


> I guess I just don’t get it..
> I see no reason to quiz people claiming to be Masons in public...


Me either....no reason at all. As I said, I wouldn't answer their questions anyway.


----------



## Brother_Steve

Bloke said:


> While many do, I don't. However, I will often wear a S&Q when at functions, that's the tool I use, and unless admitting someone to a lodge, or talking the specifics of degrees, there is no real reason to prove a man a Fremason.
> 
> I also find, the following- every heard of "gay-dar" which refers to the ability of one person to pick another as gay ? I have "free-dar" where I often sense someone is a brother... but I dont use a grip, I tend to throw in some words if I want to probe, or, simply ask.. My proposer was a master of this, he'd meet a guy and suddenly they'd be talking Lodge, really without anything especially happening, I'm not that good at it yet, but working on it


we tend to use words in every day language that would be considered archaic and unnecessary. It isn't a code by any means, but it is a good indicator of who you may be talking with.


----------



## Warrior1256

Brother_Steve said:


> we tend to use words in every day language that would be considered archaic and unnecessary. It isn't a code by any means, but it is a good indicator of who you may be talking with.


Good point!


----------



## David612

I think the reason I take issue with using grips publicly is that essentially it’s unnecessarily putting something you where entrusted to keep secret at risk either from the possible brother who may be a Cowan or onlookers but there is nothing to be gained from establishing this persons standing beyond a moment of fellowship, hence it should be reserved for the lodge where it can be private and the visitor put through the usual Masonic test, not just a grip from anyone.
Remember we needed to take an obligation to get the grip, why would you do it to just anyone who says they are a mason, especially given the number of clandestine orders the world over..


----------



## Warrior1256

David612 said:


> why would you do it to just anyone who says they are a mason, especially given the number of clandestine orders the world over..


Excellent point.


----------



## Bloke

Brother_Steve said:


> we tend to use words in every day language that would be considered archaic and unnecessary. It isn't a code by any means, but it is a good indicator of who you may be talking with.


Mind you, my GF told me something was "equidistant" last year.... now that got my attention LOL.... and she does say I "err" a lot.... OMG ! That fits, because I often think she's being irregular !!!!! IT ALL FITS NOW !!!!!!


----------



## Warrior1256

Bloke said:


> Mind you, my GF told me something was "equidistant" last year.... now that got my attention LOL.... and she does say I "err" a lot.... OMG ! That fits, because I often think she's being irregular !!!!! IT ALL FITS NOW !!!!!!


***snicker snicker***


----------



## Axeman

it’s unnecessarily putting something you where entrusted to keep secret at risk either from the possible brother who may be a Cowan or onlookers

Is this mason stuff really still as kept secret as it used to be? I mean my mum was dating this guy who was in no way quiet about his books he has to learn and his other masons, he made no effort to keep his voice down when my friend and i were walking upstairs into my mothers where we then listened to him telling the whole house where my aunt and sister were also present about how he was stuck in traffic on the way to the city and his fellow brother was shouting out to him hello brother 'name' and he's returning the greeting by calling him brother followed by the guys name, it was actually through his big mouth that i learned my late uncle was a mason too but unlike this lodge he kept it secret. Funny thing is i have that conversation on video as my friend was filming for kicks that day. But the times i heard him talking of masons and when they would go to a bar on wk.end trips it would appear he'd waste no time in his attempts at striking conversations and handshakes with Barmen and customers. And i'd also hear of higher masons freely telling youngsters about Freemason history, beliefs and things,  I just wondered if it's losing it's traditions or if it's just the odd mason here and there. I'm just only lately interested in Freemasonry as my friends fathers are all involved and some of the things they told me of the buildings and expertly made halls and rooms etc their dads have been in sounded amazing, my father has built half of the city over the years but sadly he doesn't seem involved.


----------



## Keith C

Axeman said:


> Is this mason stuff really still as kept secret as it used to be?



The things you describe, acknowledging others as Masons, saying that you are a Mason, discussing the history, precepts or benefits of Freemasonry, are not the "Mason Stuff" that we keep secret.  None of what you describe is out of line or ever was.  Perhaps in the 19th Century when the Anti-Masons were a big movement, one wouldn't discuss such things for fear of stigmatization,  but it was never "unmasonic" to discuss such.

The secrets we keep are mostly how to officially "prove" you are a Mason.  As others have said, unless you are seeking to be admitted into a Lodge meeting, there is no need to "prove" yourself.

Oh, and there is no such thing as "Higher Masons," we all meet on the level.


----------



## Warrior1256

Keith C said:


> The things you describe, acknowledging others as Masons, saying that you are a Mason, discussing the history, precepts or benefits of Freemasonry, are not the "Mason Stuff" that we keep secret.


Exactly.


Keith C said:


> The secrets we keep are mostly how to officially "prove" you are a Mason. As others have said, unless you are seeking to be admitted into a Lodge meeting, there is no need to "prove" yourself.


Yep.


Keith C said:


> Oh, and there is no such thing as "Higher Masons," we all meet on the level.


Lol....as soon as I hear someone refer to "high ranking Masons" I know that what they are saying is BS.


----------



## Glen Cook

Keith C said:


> .....
> Oh, and there is no such thing as "Higher Masons," we all meet on the level.


I was right with you until the addendum.

The issue is  whether we meet on the level as to our Masonic position. 

A Master has certain powers when acting in office, varying by jurisdiction. For instance, in my mother jurisdiction, a Master's ruling cannot be appealed. In most, he governs the lodge when it is at work. In many, he can rap a person down. In some, stop the meetings and conduct a disciplinary process for acts in the lodge. 

If you have served as Master in the US, I suspect you assented to the ancient charges (in the language of that time), including the "homage" due a Grand Master and his officers for the time being, and "veneration" of the successors of the original rulers. You may have assented to the Ancient Charges. Those indidicate in the language of that century the "reverence" due a Master and wardens. 

It is typical in English speaking jurisdictions to have a charge to the brethren at the installation/investiture: " brethren, such is the nature of our institution that as some must of necessity rule and teach, so others must learn to submit and obey." 

Importantly, it continues: "Humility in each is an essential duty." 

It is common that Masonic lodges are constructed so that officers sit above others during the meeting. That, of course,, means they are physically not on the level. You will agree that in Masonry, our ritual is symbolic. There is symbolic meaning to this physical placement during the meeting.

End of quibble.


----------



## livelolight

Someone asked me..

WC CM U? WTF does that mean?


----------



## hfmm97

livelolight said:


> Someone asked me..
> 
> WC CM U? WTF does that mean?



If you are a Freemason, you would know the answer to your question


Sent from my iPhone using My Freemasonry mobile app


----------



## livelolight

hfmm97 said:


> If you are a Freemason, you would know the answer to your question
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using My Freemasonry mobile app


I am a Mason, Mother lodge is George Price 2096, UGLE. 
Im MM and currently Inner guard of my lodge.
And just because I don't know all the Masonic acronyms doesnt mean im not a mason.


----------



## hfmm97

Apologies Bro: we have had non-masons ask these types of questions. Appears to be cypher for esoteric work.


Sent from my iPhone using My Freemasonry mobile app


----------



## hfmm97

This may refer to North American workings (did not notice that you were from the UK)


Sent from my iPhone using My Freemasonry mobile app


----------



## dfreybur

livelolight said:


> And just because I don't know all the Masonic acronyms doesnt mean im not a mason.



Why would you assume acronyms are involved?


----------



## CLewey44

It's actually not an acronym but ciphered.


----------



## Bloke

livelolight said:


> Someone asked me..
> 
> WC CM U? WTF does that mean?


LOL... think about it.. it is in Emulation Ritual I believe - in the full close of the lodge in the third and refers to a warden's line.


----------



## Bloke

And failing that, ask a PM


----------



## Keith C

Well, I still don't get it.  I am willing to wager that whatever it is, we don't have it in PA ritual!


----------



## hfmm97

Keith C said:


> Well, I still don't get it.  I am willing to wager that whatever it is, we don't have it in PA ritual!


Bro Keith C

Is PA ritual based on Preston-Webb or British Emulation work?


Sent from my iPhone using My Freemasonry mobile app


----------



## Keith C

hfmm97 said:


> Bro Keith C
> 
> Is PA ritual based on Preston-Webb or British Emulation work?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using My Freemasonry mobile app



It is based on the Ritual of the Antient Grand Lodge of England, before they merged with the "Moderns" to form the UNITED GLoE in 1813.  At the time of the union between the Grand Lodges, PA was the only jurisdiction with no Lodges operating under the "Modern" Grand Lodge, so the ritual of the Antients was retained.


----------



## hfmm97

Bro Keith C
Thanks for my daily advancement in Masonic knowledge-do you all (or yenz ) use the plain white apron for MMs or are the EA, FC, and MM aprons distinct as in some parts of Canada and the UK?


Sent from my iPhone using My Freemasonry mobile app


----------



## hfmm97

My Pennsylvanian friends use “yinz” instead of “you all” or “youse”


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----------



## hfmm97

Not sure about the spelling


Sent from my iPhone using My Freemasonry mobile app


----------



## Rifleman1776

JMartinez said:


> Brethren, I've noticed in my masonic careers their are several questions that Masons ask and answer in pubic when they are being tried or being recognized, these questions are "Are you a traveling man?" Have you seen my dog Hiram?" etc. how do you Brothers feel about this form of trying, and recognition among Brethren in public. please feel free to private message me other "questions and answers" you have came across that are similar to these, NOT THE QUESTIONS FROM MASONIC DEGREE WORK




I believe you are complicating what is essentially a non-issue. I have never met anyone posing as an MM. No reason why anyone would. A "hello" and handshake or "hello Brother" are usually sufficient to introduce ourselves. Asking what Lodge might follow. Relax. This is all about friendship.


----------



## CLewey44

hfmm97 said:


> My Pennsylvanian friends use “yinz” instead of “you all” or “youse”
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using My Freemasonry mobile app


Lol i have an old AF buddy from Pittsburgh that always said "yinz"...never heard anyone else say that.


----------



## Ripcord22A

Glen Cook said:


> I was right with you until the addendum.
> 
> The issue is  whether we meet on the level as to our Masonic position.
> 
> A Master has certain powers when acting in office, varying by jurisdiction. For instance, in my mother jurisdiction, a Master's ruling cannot be appealed. In most, he governs the lodge when it is at work. In many, he can rap a person down. In some, stop the meetings and conduct a disciplinary process for acts in the lodge.
> 
> If you have served as Master in the US, I suspect you assented to the ancient charges (in the language of that time), including the "homage" due a Grand Master and his officers for the time being, and "veneration" of the successors of the original rulers. You may have assented to the Ancient Charges. Those indidicate in the language of that century the "reverence" due a Master and wardens.
> 
> It is typical in English speaking jurisdictions to have a charge to the brethren at the installation/investiture: " brethren, such is the nature of our institution that as some must of necessity rule and teach, so others must learn to submit and obey."
> 
> Importantly, it continues: "Humility in each is an essential duty."
> 
> It is common that Masonic lodges are constructed so that officers sit above others during the meeting. That, of course,, means they are physically not on the level. You will agree that in Masonry, our ritual is symbolic. There is symbolic meaning to this physical placement during the meeting.
> 
> End of quibble.



Yeah it makes me laugh because when nonFreemasons (that ones for you @coachn) use it they are referring to it like the military and that all Lodges are interconnected.  However if you said Illustrious Ronald Seale was a “high ranking Freeemason”. That would be a correct statement.  As he is in charge of all Scottish Rite Lodges/Freemasons in the Southern Jurisidictions.
While it is true if he went to a blue lodge meeting he would be “just another PM” you are seriously kidding yourself if you think he’s not going to be welcomed as a VIP and offered a seat in the E with the WM.


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----------



## Keith C

CLewey44 said:


> Lol i have an old AF buddy from Pittsburgh that always said "yinz"...never heard anyone else say that.



Pittsburgh area is "yinz", Philly area is "Youse"  or "Youse Guys".

I live near Philly, but grew up in Connecticut, so I say "all of You" lol!


----------



## hfmm97

I stand corrected - yep it was the kind folks from Pittsburgh


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----------



## Pvogieguy2007

Well I'm 4 years late on this thread. I'm very fresh on my journey, and someone asked me the other day "you look familiar, do I know you?" and I still wonder if he was just asking me, or if he was a brother". I answered "I don't think so".


----------



## dalinkou

Normally you will hear questions about traveling, where you travel from, traveling East, or something like that.  Follow up might mention what you are searching for, and so on.  But I’ve never seen a set standard for that.


----------



## Winter

dalinkou said:


> Normally you will hear questions about [REDACTED], or something like that.  Follow up might mention [REDACTED], and so on.  But I’ve never seen a set standard for that.


You sure that's the kind of thing you want to post on a public forum?


----------



## Winter

Pvogieguy2007 said:


> Well I'm 4 years late on this thread. I'm very fresh on my journey, and someone asked me the other day "you look familiar, do I know you?" and I still wonder if he was just asking me, or if he was a brother". I answered "I don't think so".


Just be careful about posting anything on a public forum that might be used by cowans to pose a Brother.

Also, nice to get your necro post out of the way! lol


----------



## Pvogieguy2007

Winter said:


> Just be careful about posting anything on a public forum that might be used by cowans to pose a Brother.


Oh I know. I don't discuss anything I would say in lodge in public.


----------



## dalinkou

Winter said:


> You sure that's the kind of thing you want to post on a public forum?





Winter said:


> You sure that's the kind of thing you want to post on a public forum?


----------



## Winter

Did you forget to type something dalinkou? All you did was quote my post.


----------



## dalinkou

Winter said:


> You sure that's the kind of thing you want to post on a public forum?


These are questions I’ve been asked in public settings…meaningless without context and missed by all except those who could respond.  Kind of funny though.  A new brother asks a question and oddly he gets something generic that he can use and we’re afraid some secret is revealed.  Don’t worry, light is so well hidden that most lodges can’t find it.


----------



## usar123

So true you should never assume someone to be a Mason !


----------



## Reginald/G\

It all depends on how serious the question and how the question was given. And look to see their position when asking the questions. I have been taught to be cautious. And if a person wants to go further. I simply say yours for mines. If they can't produce. I'm off this conversation.


----------



## Reginald/G\

Companion Joe said:


> I generally use "I see you're a travelin' man" because I think it is a nice, friendly way to greet someone new. It's not a real method of "trying" someone, nor does it need to be. I am not going to meet someone for the first time in Walmart, a restaurant, or a party and start discussing Masonic degree work with them.
> 
> For that matter, if I bump into one of the members of my own lodge in one of those settings, esoteric work isn't going to really be discussed, either.
> 
> There is a difference between recognizing someone as a Mason and trying someone.


I agree. There is a difference when someone is just greeting. "Cautious" will let you know when someone is off are from. But when someone wants to search. I say yours for mines. If they can't produce then I'm off the conversation. But I see nothing wrong with just greeting another brother.


----------



## usar123

I agree ! With so much that is going on in the world you never know who is a Mason or Not !


----------



## Reginald/G\

Right.


----------



## Reginald/G\

There was a person who wore the emblem and was very loud and signaling sings in a store. He was asking me where you at. Where you at. due to I wore my emblem. So I just looked did not respond turned and walked away. We have that right to not respond if a person conduct their selves in this manner. He was not concealed. I am very proud to be a mason. I know when and where and who to share light with. We must be "CAUTIOUS" at all times. Meet and greet is cool. But if ya wanna get to the next level produce what you have that proves you are who you say you are. Then we can talk.


----------



## G Sears

TMI


----------



## Winter

Reginald/G\ said:


> There was a person who wore the emblem and was very loud and signaling sings in a store. He was asking me where you at. Where you at. due to I wore my emblem. So I just looked did not respond turned and walked away. We have that right to not respond if a person conduct their selves in this manner. He was not concealed. I am very proud to be a mason. I know when and where and who to share light with. We must be "CAUTIOUS" at all times. Meet and greet is cool. But if ya wanna get to the next level produce what you have that proves you are who you say you are. Then we can talk.


I guessing that you are a Prince Hall Brother? They usually have a much more elaborate question and answer for meeting in public than we see outside PHA.


----------



## Reginald/G\

I am. But not all of us conduct our selves in a manner that would conflict our obligation.


----------



## Winter

Reginald/G\ said:


> I am. But not all of us conduct our selves in a manner that would conflict our obligation.


I agree. I was just commenting that if a PHA Brother met a non PHA there might be more than a little headsctatching at some of the questions asked because of the streams we come from.


----------



## Reginald/G\

Gotcha. It's crazy. U will know who is serious about who they are versus those who just wanna b seen as if they are. I'm proud of who I am. And I conceal at every cautious.


----------



## Glen Cook

Reginald/G\ said:


> It all depends on how serious the question and how the question was given. And look to see their position when asking the questions. I have been taught to be cautious. And if a person wants to go further. I simply say yours for mines. If they can't produce. I'm off this conversation.


Do you mean my dues card for your dues card?


----------



## Reginald/G\

Correct.


----------



## Glen Cook

Reginald/G\ said:


> Correct.


Thanks. 
That leaves three  problems:
Not all GLs have dues cards. 
Clandestine masons have dues cards.
One shouldn’t be surprised if they get a laugh unless requesting to see a dues card when being examined to sit in lodge, particularly if asking a senior mason to prove his status outside of lodge.


----------



## MarkR

Glen Cook said:


> One shouldn’t be surprised if they get a laugh unless requesting to see a dues card when being examined to sit in lodge, particularly if asking a senior mason to prove his status outside of lodge.


Exactly.  Unless I'm seeking admission to your lodge, with no one to vouch for me, I don't have to prove anything to anybody.

The times I've visited Scotland (which my studies leads me to believe is the birthplace of Freemasonry) and worn a cap with a square and compass, the only thing I was ever asked on the street, and in a friendly, curious, non-challenging manner, was "what's your mother lodge."


----------



## Glen Cook

MarkR said:


> … was "what's your mother lodge."


Aye, those sly cunning Scots with their tricky questions.


----------



## Reginald/G\

Correct. I've encountered simple question also. But when a person wanted to find deeper info then that's when I ask my question just being cautious and to find out if the person is on the square legally. I can't just give up info just cause they know those simple questions that doesn't make them to be real.


----------



## Winter

Glen Cook said:


> Thanks.
> That leaves three  problems:
> Not all GLs have dues cards.
> Clandestine masons have dues cards.
> One shouldn’t be surprised if they get a laugh unless requesting to see a dues card when being examined to sit in lodge, particularly if asking a senior mason to prove his status outside of lodge.


I'd be out of luck.  I don't even keep my dues card on me if I am not heading to Lodge.


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## Glen Cook

hmm. I don  think you addressed any of the points: how do you determine they are on the square, “legally.”

And what “deeper” information would you discuss on the street?


Reginald/G\ said:


> Correct. I've encountered simple question also. But when a person wanted to find deeper info then that's when I ask my question just being cautious and to find out if the person is on the square legally. I can't just give up info just cause they know those simple questions that doesn't make them to be real.


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## Reginald/G\

Up to date with dues.


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## Glen Cook

Right. And how do you determine that?  Not all of us have dues cards. Clandestine masons have dues cards. 

You didn't address what "deeper" information you would discuss in public. 


Reginald/G\ said:


> Up to date with dues


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## Reginald/G\

Ok. I see now. It has me thinking. What if I was to encounter some one that's not of the same affiliated as I am. From the info you share. As for deep info in public. I stay concealed to that lever.


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## Glen Cook

I happily respond to “Hey, brother, where you hail from?”  with either “Salt Lake 17” or “Lodge of Concord, Cheshire.” depending on where I am and the  role I’m filling. I’ll then likely ask, “What’s your grand lodge?  You tell me.  I shake your hand, and introduce my wife if she’s with me. 

As we will not be discussing anything anything deeper in public, that’s all that’s needed.


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## Reginald/G\

Yes sir correct. These are the simple questions I was talking about. I have no problem with answering those. Greeting and meeting new brothers is always a great feeling to connect with. But when the person wants to another level I want to make sure that I'm not getting on the level with an imposter. Then if he's real we can set up a ph call are meet some where lest cloudy.


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## Dontrell Stroman

Reginald/G\ said:


> Yes sir correct. These are the simple questions I was talking about. I have no problem with answering those. Greeting and meeting new brothers is always a great feeling to connect with. But when the person wants to another level I want to make sure that I'm not getting on the level with an imposter. Then if he's real we can set up a ph call are meet some where lest cloudy.



Brother Glen Cook has made some very valid points in his prior comments. Sir, what you are alluding to is what many call “Street Masonry” or “Catch-E-Kisms”. Questions and answers that can resemble parts of the ritual. As a few brothers have already noted, there is no need to prove anything outside of a lodge. Say you ask for my dues card, and I produce it. Is that enough to truly verify “Good standing” ? As far as you know, I could have found that on the street and started passing myself off as a mason. A simple hello, what GL, exchange lodges dates and times and move on should suffice. Also, the only place that’s “Least Cloudy” would be in a tyled lodge sir.


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## Glen Cook

Dontrell Stroman said:


> ...As far as you know, I could have found that on the street and started passing myself off as a mason.


Well, we had wondered. . 

I love ya brother!


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## Reginald/G\

Your right as far as I know what I've been taught to handle situations.


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## Dontrell Stroman

Glen Cook said:


> Well, we had wondered. .
> 
> I love ya brother!



Love ya too Brother Cook.


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## Dontrell Stroman

Reginald/G\ said:


> Your right as far as I know what I've been taught to handle situations.



What exactly were you taught ?


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## Reginald/G\

Not enough. Just pieces and bits it seems to be as I'm thinking this whole things over. I'm great full for the knowledge that you brothers took the time to share with me. I need to travel a different way that I can gain more. Not just bits in pieces that's still not enough. I thirst for knowledge but wasn't getting what I need. The more I sit here and think the more I'm getting upset. Yrs of sitting a the lodge but no knowledge was truly given but pieces and bits.


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## Dontrell Stroman

Reginald/G\ said:


> Not enough. Just pieces and bits it seems to be as I'm thinking this whole things over. I'm great full for the knowledge that you brothers took the time to share with me. I need to travel a different way that I can gain more. Not just bits in pieces that's still not enough. I thirst for knowledge but wasn't getting what I need. The more I sit here and think the more I'm getting upset. Yrs of sitting a the lodge but no knowledge was truly given but pieces and bits.



My brother,

I wouldn’t go as far as to say “No knowledge”. What you spoke on earlier is exactly what is taught in many PH lodges. Does it make it right or wrong ? That’s the question, and the answer you must discover on your own. What I can say is this, some must unlearn the idea of “proving” their self. I encourage you to seek the “knowledge” you’re looking for from seasoned masons within your lodge or GL. Reason being, many GLS do things different and to prevent Imitating something your GL doesn’t do, it’s best to stick to your own jurisdictional practices.


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## Reginald/G\

Ok. Thks


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## Glen Cook

Reginald/G\ said:


> Not enough. Just pieces and bits it seems to be as I'm thinking this whole things over. I'm great full for the knowledge that you brothers took the time to share with me. I need to travel a different way that I can gain more. Not just bits in pieces that's still not enough. I thirst for knowledge but wasn't getting what I need. The more I sit here and think the more I'm getting upset. Yrs of sitting a the lodge but no knowledge was truly given but pieces and bits.


We are all still  gaining knowledge. Some of us have had opportunities to broaden our knowledge base, but we are or should still be learning.


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## MarkR

Don't despair, Brother Reginald.  The more I learn, the more I find out how little I really know.  We're here for you.


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## Reginald/G\

Thks.


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## Chris H

I’m a mason with more than 25 years experience. I must say that if someone asked me if I was a travelling man here on the street in England, it would go straight over my head. The stronger meaning here is (respectfully) “Are you a gypsy?”


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## Winter

Chris H said:


> I’m a mason with more than 25 years experience. I must say that if someone asked me if I was a travelling man here on the street in England, it would go straight over my head. The stronger meaning here is (respectfully) “Are you a gypsy?”


Everything I know about gypsies in the UK I learned from Brad Pitt's character in Snatch.


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## Chris H

A decent portrayal as I remember. They can be pretty tough according to my limited knowledge. Witness heavyweight boxing champion Tyson Fury, The Gypsy King.  I don’t think they come much tougher than that!


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## Glen Cook

Chris H said:


> I’m a mason with more than 25 years experience. I must say that if someone asked me if I was a travelling man here on the street in England, it would go straight over my head. The stronger meaning here is (respectfully) “Are you a gypsy?”


Or, more appropriately, Romani.


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## Seniorwardeninthewest

Mike Martin said:


> Same here!
> 
> Although I know that some of our Scots brethren like to ask each other how old their Mothers are, with the answer being the Lodge's number apparently.


My mother is very young. She is 31.


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## Chris H

Glen Cook said:


> Or, more appropriately, Romani.


Good thought, but I personally wouldn’t risk that. The numbers of Romany / Roma are relatively tiny as far as I know. I looked it up on the UK government stats website.


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## Glen Cook

First, note that traveller was a joint designation with Gypsy, rather than Gypsy alone,  and second, it was 11 years ago. My experience as a legal professional is that I could be subject to discipline for use of the term Gypsy.

 See also https://www.grammarphobia.com/blog/2019/03/gypsy.html

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/Gypsy (scroll down)

“Throughout history, the words “Gypsy”, “Tsigane/Zigeuner”, and similar terms, have been used. These words have taken a derogatory connotation in very many languages.” https://www.enar-eu.org/frequently-asked-questions-1167/


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## Chris H

That would have been you and Tyson Fury in trouble then. The 2012 stats should be due any day now. Let’s wait and see what’s changed.


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## Glen Cook

There is a difference between how one describes himself, particularly when they are a showman, and the labels others use.

To the best of my knowledge, Fury has never qualified as a solicitor. It would not be the same standard.

Given his incredible record, I don’t think I will challenge him as to what he calls himself. I don’t wish to find my name next to Austin Theory’s. Even worse, if I weren’t around to read it.


Chris H said:


> That would have been you and Tyson Fury in trouble then. The 2012 stats should be due any day now. Let’s wait and see what’s changed.


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## usar123

I agree straight forward Questions no beating around the bush !


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