# Why Prince Hall Masonry?



## Blake Bowden

Why is it that a majority of African Americans prefer Prince Hall? Is it because you felt unwelcome in a "mainstream" aka a non-PHA Lodge? Were you serving overseas during that time and had no other option? Did PHA seem more in touch with you and your community? 

I've heard of a FEW cases where racism has reared is ugly head on both sides. PHA doesn't need the "white man" in it's ranks and a small minority of "mainstream" members would refuse to sit in Lodge with a "ni**er". Sorry for the language, but let's call out bigotry and racism. 

IMO, we could be like the general public and sweep things under the rug and pretend they don't exist, but I'll put my dues card on the line to call things out. Trust me, I'll be the first person to admit they're far from perfect. I'm not commenting to demean a Brother, no matter what his thoughts are, but to address certain issues we all have in the back of our minds.  

FYI, I'm what you consider "mainstream" and/or "non-pha", that being said, the relationship between our respective Masonic bodies facinaties me.


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## Brent Heilman

It is strange to see this thread. I just got back from the McAlester Valley Scottish Rite Reunion this weekend and me and a few others were talking about the same thing. We have in our Valley almost all white members. There are a few from other ethnic backgrounds but none are African-Americans. Well, there is one that is African-American but he is white. In my town we have a "Brother" that is a PHA Mason, but he will do whatever he can to keep some of the potential petitioners that are African-American away from our Lodge. The problem is that the closest PHA Lodge is over 30 miles away and for some that just wouldn't be the ideal situation. If some of these were to petition our Lodge they would be welcomed but there would be problems from him. It is a sad situation to say the least. I think that a lot of the problems we see in this debate come from both sides. While we here in Oklahoma do have visitation and such with PHA and are no longer fighting that fight there are other smaller battles to be fought still. I think racism plays a big part. Whether it is admitted to or not it comes from both sides. _

_


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## bupton52

So what can we, the little guys, do to change this? I hear more and more people saying lets change it. What do we need to do?


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## SeeKer.mm

bupton52 said:


> So what can we, the little guys, do to change this? I hear more and more people saying lets change it. What do we need to do?


 
I am sure there is no one solid answer to this one but for starters we can all agree to be different.  A lot of people ask me as a non-Caucasian why I didn't join Prince Hall..quite honestly, it turns out that in the State of CT both factions recognize each other as regular so I should have no problem visiting...that and the lodge I belong to is where I was first introduced to Masonry, is right near my house, and has a very diverse membership.  Now I know there are differences between the way the two GLs do things and I respect the separate distinctions due to the history behind it all.  I do not see, however, how someone could take oaths that we take, and then at the same time be a racist...are we all not men  regardless of our skin color? 

I have made mention to this before in similar discussions and the rebuttal I get is that PH is not recognized by some GLs not because of racism, but due to an irregular history or not being properly chartered...The UGLE recognizes PH as regular right?  So what is the problem?  I don't know...to me as long as the ancient charges are being held to and things are done in due form...what is the problem?  This is a topic of great interest to me as well so i am glad it was brought up!


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## sands67

I am writing from an an area in Canada where there are no lodges of Prince Hall Masons and my area is 99.9 % caucasian. We have one lodge member who is not caucasian and he is treated the same as any other lodge member.  He has reached the level of Grand High Priest in our provinces Royal Arch Masons. I have a hard time dealing with racism as I was never the victim of or never knowingly subjected anyone to racist remarks but I am far from perfect. I may sound a little cliche when I say this, but I believe masons are to make good men better men. No where in our obligations did it say white men were better or that black men were better or Hispanics, Chinese Koreans, etc were better . We are ALL level under the square in my mind and anyone thinking otherwise has no place in masonry. Maybe we should ask those who discriminate  to remember those obligations rather than letting them go on thinking what they are believing and saying is okay.


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## cjapgar

Sands67, great points all around.  In my Lodge in Washington there are several Brothers of different ethnic backgrounds.  When I walk into the Lodge room, I see nothing but my Brothers.  I don't see a black man, or a hispanic man, or an asian man, I see my Brethren.  I feel the same way about Prince Hall Freemasons.  At my office there are 3 of us Brothers from different Lodges throughout the country.  I am the only local Mason at work, one is from LaClede #83 in Lebanon, MO, and the other is from Surfside #9 PHA in Oceanside, CA.  We all treat each other with the dignity and respect we'd expect from each other as men and Masons.  It really bothers me that racism exists in the world.  I've visited Lodges in several different states, and I've always asked if Prince Hall Masons are allowed to visit, and everywhere I've been except South Carolina allows them to visit and vice versa.  I believe the same is true here in Washington State.  Another friend at work who just found out that he was raised in a clandestine Lodge in Virginia (unfortunately, he truly didn't know, he was mis-led) told me that it was in their Lodge by-laws to not even converse Masonically with Prince Hall Masons.


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## towerbuilder7

The MIS-information is what seems to be killing the potential for some to extend a hand of fidelity.   Generations of teaching "mouth to ear", and relying on what an Elder, well respected Brother in Lodge may have told someone rather than researching for self enrichment, can easily injure a Younger brother's perspective on *either* side of this *One Brotherhood*, *One Planet*, *ONE ALMIGHTY GOD-fearing Brotherhood *we all profess to love and cherish.  *"Irregular History?!"  "Not being Properly Chartered?!"   *I have heard these baseless claims over and over again, in regard to our PHA Brotherhood.   I have even heard one Mainstream Brother at my job profess that he "heard Prince Hall Masonry was clandestine, because Prince Hall was only issued a FIRST DEGREE CHARTER".........NO SUCH THING....Upon initiation in Lodge #441, Grand Lodge of Ireland, in Boston, on March 6, 1775, the Brothers were allowed to "meet, celebrate and march on St John's Day, and bury their dead in manner and form....."  Prince Hall did not settle for that; he wanted 
equality in the Craft for himself and his newly initiated brethren. 

To be honest, I really think Brothers will join a Lodge where they feel the most welcomed and accepted, if that individual chooses to look into BOTH GLoTX as well as MWPHGLoTX before making his decision.   My decision was based on two things----I had a very close friend of mine who was a member of the PHA Lodge where I petitioned, and I always had an immense amount of respect for the History and Legacy attached to Prince Hall Masonry in the community where I live.   I wasn't "anti-GLoTX", just more "Pro-Prince Hall".   To me, where a Brother decides to join isn't the issue; *it's whether he can accept and extend a hand of fellowship and fidelity to a Brother Mason of another race, creed, national origin, etc*.  If he can do that, this becomes an asset to BOTH Lodges, and opens the door to joint community projects, fundraisers, or, simply a meet and greet, where you meet Brothers of the same Craft from a different walk in life.  This has a dual benefit in the community, for they see Men of different races and creeds together for a common cause-----*FREEMASONRY*.  Being a member of this Forum caused me to do some research on the history of the GLoTX, and I was enlightened by that which I did not know.  Respect and Love for the CRAFT caused me to pursue this history, so I could learn more about the GL from whence the Brothers with whom I have been communicating come from.   


The warrant Prince Hall sought was granted on Sept 29, 1784, and received, after several delays, on April 29, 1787.   This warrant, which was in standard form for those issued during that time period, had NO restrictions, and named Prince Hall as Master, Boston Smith as Senior Warden, and Thomas Sanderson as Junior Warden. 


Come on Brothers........we are all supposed to be *Scientists in a Progressive Science*, investigating History, Philosophy, The 7 Liberal Arts and Sciences, and the Ancient Mysteries.   We are also supposed to be seekers of *TRUTH.*   If you are a TRUE student of Masonry, and American History, then the* histories *of what we know as Mainstream AND Prince Hall Masonry should be part of your sojourn.  If you judged the formation of most current Grand Lodges by TODAY'S CRITERIA, then a good number of Mainstream Grand Lodges would be considered clandestine also.   Most were formed or given dispensation by a Grand Lodge in another State, instead of receiving their original dispensation or charter from the UGLE, which was how Prince Hall formed his first two subordinate Lodges in Rhode island and Pennsylvania.  This was the order of the day, and was *not *an issue in that day and time, due to a little conflict known as the American Revolution, in late 18th Century, and another small battle we know as the Civil War in the latter part of the 19th century.  There was little, if any, contact with England regarding Masonry in this period.  


As time progressed, each Mainstream GL in their respective State went back and sought recognition from UGLE.   If one cares to read about the History of Prince Hall Masonry, one would discover that he petitioned for and received a *regular *Charter in Sept. of 1787.  The name of the Lodge on the roster of the Premier Grand Lodge of England (Moderns) was *"African Lodge #459".   *As late as 1792, African Lodge had been renumbered to *#370*, and was still carried on the rolls of the Grand Lodge of England (Moderns).  Prince Hall sought to maintain contact with the Grand Lodge of England, sent relief regularly, notified England of current rosters and deceased Brethren, and never received any followup correspondence.   


Upon his death in 1807, the Brothers sought to preserve his Legacy by continuing to practice Freemasonry in accordance with the "rules governed by his permit issued", (Charter) as well as the "General Regulations" passed by African Lodge in 1779, which governed their particular Lodge, and incorporated phrases and work from Anderson's Constitutions.   By 1827, they had not received any further correspondence, so they placed a letter declaring their "independence" in their local Newspaper.   Prince Hall Grand Lodge was formed, and each subordinate Lodge from its lineage has been deemed* "regular in origin, and of exemplary regularity today...."   (Quarterly Communication of UGLE, December 1994)    

*A great book for those who seek to satisfy their curiosity about Prince Hall Masonry, is* "Inside Prince Hall", by Bro. David Gray*.   I purchased it on Amazon.   Another good read is* "Recognizing Prince Hall; An Eleven Year Journey to Honesty", by Bro.* *Dan Weatherington*.  *The first book is a detailed account of research performed by Bro. Gray, who is considered by some to be a preminent scholar regarding Prince Hall History*.   He discusses formation of what we know today as Prince Hall Masonry, its struggles, and even the issues concerning BOGUS or CLANDESTINE LODGES, which are a thorn in the side of Prince Hall Affiliated Brothers world-wide.  They give Masonry a bad name and image.    *The second book touches on the issue discussed in THIS very thread.  Bro. Weatherington speaks on the fight in the state of North Carolina among Mainstream Brethren to officially recognize and grant visitation to Prince Hall Affiliated (PHA) brethren in NC.* *It details his fight with bigotry, ignorance, racism, and old ideals as well as MIS-information regarding Prince Hall brethren among his Brethren throughout the State of NC*.  I would call them a must read for those who want fact based information about Prince Hall Freemasonry, and its place in AMERICAN History.   

If anyone has any further questions, wants further LIGHT, or just has a comment about anything I have submitted, I welcome words from the Brotherhood.   In MY view, I see a Square and Compass, a Holy Bible (and/or Koran), and Three Tapers, at an Altar, with GOD fearing Men of all creeds and origins in Lodges WORLD-WIDE practicing Masonry in its purest form, and professing loyalty and love for this "beautiful system of morality, veiled in allegory, and illustrated by symbols."   (Of course, I only recognize those who are members of the GLoTx or MWPHGLoTX, as regular and recognized.)    

*Humbly and Fraternally submitted, Bro. Vincent C. Jones, Sr., Bayou City Lodge #228, PHA, F&AM, Houston, Texas*


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## SeeKer.mm

With all due respect Mr. Jones, and forgive my ignorance on the topic, but I read your post and agree that we should all attempt to research those things that we don't know about, and furthermore thank you for the enlightening information...I do have something troubling me though since I read your post.  After all the information provided about how PH Masonry is regular and recognized you go on to end your post saying that you only recognize the Texas Grand Lodges as regular and recognized...what about the rest  the lodges around the country and world that are chartered regularly?  Do you not recognize them as brothers in Masonry? I appreciate your time and am sure your response will be enlightening.  Thank you.


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## bupton52

I may be wrong SeeKer.mm and hopefully towerbuilder7 will clarify, but I believe that he is talking about within the state of Texas, members from those two GLs are the only ones that are recognized.


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## towerbuilder7

I appreciate Brother Upton from District 15 (Houston, Texas) for backing me up on this issue.  Brother Seeker, I appreciate you reading my post, and am glad you were able to find it enLIGHTening........allow me to clarify......When I said that I only recognize Brothers of the GLoTx and MWPHGLoTX as regular and recognized, I was referring to brothers within the Great State of Texas, due to the fact that these are the only two GL's recognized as being Regular and possessing the Lineage which traces back to the UGLE........Of course Brother, when you broaden the scope, and begin to refer to other States, and even other Lodges around the World, ANY Freemason initiated, passed, and raised in a Regular and Recognized Lodge will receive the respect and recognition he is due within our Bond from ME.............I hope that made my statement a little more clear........Bro. Jones


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## SeeKer.mm

Thank you, Bro. Jones and Bro. Upton for the clarification in the matter.  I hope that I can one day make it to to the great state of Texas and cross paths with you and other upstanding brothers.  In the meantime I look forward to seeking more light, and engaging in stimulating conversation with all of my brothers here on the forum.  Thanks again!


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## towerbuilder7

Anytime, Brother...........always seek further LIGHT, share that LIGHT with younger, less-informed Brethren in your Lodge, be a beacon of LIGHT to those in your local community, and allow that LIGHT from GOD to guide you in your daily travels in LIFE.....


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## hipcatscience

Greetings Brothers
My name is Brother L. David Stewart II
Proud member of  Allen Stewart Sr #1903 AF&AM Chicago Illinois

As a relatively newly raised Mason (Raised 12/31/11) I have become QUITE fascinated with this discussion. Allow me to elaborate.
I am an African American man who comes from a generation of Masons. I am a 4th Generation Mason myself. And I love the Brotherhood truly. However it is true that racism and classicism pervades the harmony. I have had the pleasure of observing racism and dealing with Classicism first.  A good friend of my whom I am also a fraternity member with (A Black Greek Letter Organization) whom I knew to be a Brother I called shortly after I was raised. I shared with him I was recently raised, and he hit me with the Jurisdiction question.. at the time perplexed we had a discussion and I told him that I was AF&AM and he called me "Clandestine" To say i was hurt was an understatement.  He said the traditional "...if you are not from the UGLE or can trace your lineage then you are not real. I then did my research and begun the research that I have been doing since. Why is is that amongst African American Masons alone is there this Classicism? But when you take them to the 25 Landmarks they back up... why? My question I ask is, If I am giving the Grand Hailing Sign of Distress are you gonna ask me am I 3 letter 4 letter or 5 letter, even if I show you how you can know me as a Mason?

With regards to racism and Freemasonry
Agreed it is the ugly 800lb gorilla in the room. As we dont want to truly discuss it. However we must if we are to truly understand our Brothehood.  The fight that Prince Hall had to make to become a Mason in THAT TIME i can only admire and would have LOVED to talk with the Brother on his trials. As well I would have LOVED to speak with those Brothers who saw him fit to be a Mason regardless of skin color.  If we look at Masonry and the beauty therein, it can be said that truly all men meet on the level, yet if we review history, the aristocracy that led to the "revival" of Masonry was based in aristocracy. As England at the time creating the Grand Lodge of that time coincidentally had the might to rule the world as it did at that time.  So to many the concept of a Black man being a Mason was a ludicrous as as Black Man being Free. Ergo over time after Prince Hall and the other brothers of the African Lodge began to create offshoots it became a separate but equal paradigm. And there are generations of Prince Hall Masons who can trace their roots and that is a beautiful thing.  However the smudges of racism continue to pervade throughout US history alone as demonstrated by the story of Rosewood Florida which was about this very topic of racism and Freemasonry.

Racism runs parallel in all facets of US history and Freemasonry is no different.
What we have today in my humble opinion is that the subsets of counter cultures that have been created that prevent men of all uniqueness from meeting on the level. When we think back to the ritual  those were united men. And it must get back to that.  However it starts from discussions like this From Brothers of all walks of life. Because in the end.. its not about what color you are or if you are PHA PHO AFAM FAM IFAAM ETC. its about who YOU took your OBLIGATION too and kissed the VSL too.

SMIB
Bro. L David Stewart II
CEO
I.C.M.S.
Institute of Christian & Masonic Studies
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Institute-of-Christian-Masonic-Studies/180193412076718
ldavid@icmstudies.org
"And God Said Let Their Be Light!"


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## SeeKer.mm

Thanks for your post, and welcome to the forums!  I am new here too and I can vouch that this forum is unique and full of light!  Your post states that your friend called your lodge clandestine because it is AF&AM?  My lodge here in CT is AF&AM and our lineage traces back to the UGLE.  DO you know if you lodge is recognized by UGLE?  If so then your lodge is certainly regular....  Perhaps this is a topic for another thread!  I look forward to your future posts!


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## PHA TRAVELER

Brother L. David Stewart II,what Grandlodge are u with? i notice that u said "The fight that Prince Hall had to make to become a Mason in THAT TIME i can only admire and would have LOVED to talk with the Brother on his trials" So why didnt u join a Prince Hall Lodge?


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## bupton52

I honestly don't think that racism is the reason behind the multitude of clandestine lodges and GL that exist in the United States. Your friend was giving you the correct information. At the end of the day, it would be in your best interest to research the history of your GL and also familiarize yourself with the rules that freemasonry adheres to. As for the side of the road statement, if I were going to offer assistance, it would be because there was another human in need of help, not because of your affiliation or if you are a mason or not. Honestly, there are other masons that I would be cautious around and depending on how late at night it is, I probably still won't stop. I will call some help for you though.


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## hipcatscience

@PHA Traveler, King Jesus Grand Lodge AF&AM of the State of Tennessee
@bupton52 I understand the nature of statement, as I'd like to think we all are. I just find it interesting and worthy of merit that has we find ourselves to be so divisive over issues that keep us from true fidelity. I am interested in conversing with you more on the matter as well. As i am looking to get perspectives from all Brothers worldwide to learn more.


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## polmjonz

As bupton52 said the "S&C" always catch my attention and rendering assistance on the side of the road would be from the lessons learned towards our fellow man and affiliation would not be an issue, but to discuss the "secrets" or converse on things Masonic I would have to verify that I would not be breaking my obligation prior to the discussion.  
To second him on a another statement. I also believe your friend to be correct.  Based on the currently provided information I would not be comfortable discussing anything other than what I would with somebody who was beginning to ask questions about the fraternity.


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## towerbuilder7

Brother Hipcat science, you appear to be a knowledgable brother, with the perspective you presented regarding Freemasonry and racism.....However, I must provide some LIGHT for you, in regard to the portion of the post in which you speak on *"classcism".   *You posed a question as to why classcism is so pervasive among African American Masons.  If you'll lend me an attentive ear, I will give you my insight.

I, too, am also a proud member of a Black Greek Letter Collegiate Fraternity.  I am a Spring 1989 Initiate of Alpha Phi Alpha Fraternity, Incorporated, and pledged 12 weeks to EARN the right to WORK for, share bonds with Brothers within, and represent this Fraternity that I love dearly.  My Chapter has a Charter issued by the National Organization, and operates to this day under Key #453, the MU NU Chapter, chartered April 24, 1976.  It is recognized by our National Organization as a legitimate Undergraduate Chapter at an accredited institution of Higher Learning. As a true student of history like yourself, I aspired to become a Freemason once I discovered the ties that my Founders had to Prince Hall Freemasonry.   I decided to become a Mason, and eventually became initiated, passed, and raised in what is known as a Black Four Letter Lodge here in Houston, Texas. (Mt. Sinai Grand Lodge)  

Like you, I pursued this TRUTH due to the love I have for history, philosophy, and esoteric teaching.   A good friend of mine who happened to be a Prince Hall Mason, spoke with me shortly after I was raised, and strongly encouraged me to research the lineage of my Grand Lodge, in order to ascertain whether or not it had ties to the UGLE.  After two years of research, all I got were incomplete answers from the Brothers, who referred me to a certain Brother from another State that appeared to be very knowledgable in the Craft and "our" history in the Grand Lodge and Jurisdiction.   I never discovered any ties to the UGLE, nor did I confirm any OFFICIAL RECOGNITION of our Grand Lodge by the Grand Lodge of Texas, or the MW Prince Hall Grand Lodge of Texas. 

I felt restless, upset, and, in a way, taken for granted.   I had been an honest, hard working, dues paying member of this Grand Lodge for nearly three years, ($300/year) had memorized the Ritual which we studied (Lester's Look To The East), begun teaching newly initiated Brethren, and also read any and every source of esoteric teaching that I could obtain.   However, as my Prince Hall friend patiently and gently reminded me, all of the *titles*, *offices*, *regalia,* and even the knowledge I pursued through my Grand Lodge would not mean anything, if I were UNABLE  to receive the REAL "rights, lights, and benefits" of this Craft in a regular and recognized Lodge.

He was speaking of my affiliation with a duly constituted Lodge, with a Charter or Warrant issued by a RECOGNIZED and competent body, which empowers me to WORK.  The "Prince Hall vs 4 Letter" debate within the Black Community did not evolve from "classcism" as you allege, Brother, but from *greed, deceipt, and abuses of power *among Men who chose to exploit the ignorance of their Fellow Man in the mid-19th Century.   Obviously, Black Men in America were NOT welcome to join predominantly White Lodges in that era, and racism was the clear rationale and reasoning behind this. The Black Man and his Prince Hall Masonry was considered "clandestine", not because it didn't meet the requirements as stated in the Landmarks, and notwithstanding the CHARTER received from the Premier Grand Lodge of England in 1787 which empowered African Lodge #459 to practice REGULAR Masonry, but simply because of the mindset of that time toward newly freed or first generation freed Men of Color here in America. 

There were Black Men at that time who were traveling from State to State, conferring degrees on Black Men, making them Masons on sight for an agreed upon fee.   There were also Prince Hall Masons that had been EXPELLED from the Order, who continually conferred degrees on Men AND FORMED LODGES FOR THOSE MEN eager to join what they thought was the premier bond of Brotherhood among Free Black Men at that time.   These so-called Grand Lodges, styled as "Ancient Free and Accepted", had NO ties to the UGLE, and were NOT recognized as regular by either the Prince Hall Grand Lodge of the particular State, nor the Mainstream GL.   

This evolved into all forms of what is known as clandestine, or even Bogus Masonry in the Black Community.  For example, "Five Letter" masonry, otherwise known as International Modern and Free, is set up as a corporation, has a "Supreme Grand Master" who styles himself as a "CEO", and PAYS members for RECRUITING new members, something which a REAL LODGE OF FREEMASONRY WOULD NEVER DO.  The age old adage of "we're all brothers", or "the information is all the same", or even "would you assist this Brother if he were in distress?" are all common questions asked by 4 or 5 Letter Brothers, as they question the Prince Hall Brother's reluctance to recognize his form of Masonry as that which is recognized and has a documented lineage to the UGLE. I took an obligation to a Craft which supports assisting any Man in need, if within my ability to do so.


It has NOTHING to do with classcism, and everything to do with what is recognized as adherence to Landmarks, Constitutions and By-Laws, and Oaths of Allegiance taken by Prince Hall Brothers in every Jurisdiction.  It isn't an adherence that possesses hostility, racism, classcism, or even egotism.......It is an adherence to something that was not CREATED by Brother Prince Hall, but rather BESTOWED upon him and 14 other Men by Sgt. J D Batt of an Irish Military Lodge Foot Regiment, working under Charter issued by the Grand Lodge of Ireland.   It was this "something" that earned Prince Hall the right to ask for and receive the Charter for African Lodge #459, which is the foundation of a form of Masonry which the UGLE has determined is regular in practice.    Each and EVERY Prince Hall Affiliated (PHA) Lodge can tie their lineage back to this particular Lodge.

I generated this correspondence in an effort to enlighten you and others who read this about the differences between the LINEAGE AND RECOGNITION of the Freemasonry which I practice, and the Masonry which you practice in the Lodge and Grand Lodge in which you belong.  I do not consider myself "better", or "above" any Brother who does not belong to one of the two recognized Grand Lodges of each State in the USA.  (Mainstream and Prince Hall Affiliated)    Brother, I came from the same "4 Letter" background, and was always VERY defensive anytime a Mainstream or Prince Hall Brother at my job called me a member of a clandestine Lodge.   I researched this issue for one year, before making the decision to leave that Lodge.  I do not regret this move ONE BIT.   I am now embraced by these same Brothers, not because I am any different as an individual; I am embraced because my *Masonic Affiliation *is different.   

I made mention of my Undergraduate Fraternity Chapter receving a Charter from the National Organization, for one reason.  In Masonry, a subordinate Lodge receives its dispensation and/or Charter from the Grand Lodge which empowers it to work.  In order for that Grand Lodge and Subordinate Lodge to be considered "regular *AND* recognized", they must be able to prove lineage or ties to the *United Grand Lodge of England*.  Unfortunately, there is *NO* Black 4 Letter Lodge or Grand Lodge styled "Ancient Free and Accepted" that is able to do so; hence, while they may practice a regular form of Masonry with Three Great Lights, VSL, and Altar, they are not RECOGNIZED by a legitimate Masonic body, which in turn is recognized by the UGLE.


I have been where you are, studied what you have studied, and walked in the Masonic shoes you're wearing at this moment.   Your affiliation does not make you a bad Man, by any means, Brother; It simply makes you a Man that will be limited in your affiliation with Masonic bodies that are recognized as *legitimate and regular *here in America.  Regularity and Masonic Recognition are the foundation(s) of any Mason's criteria for Masonic affiliation with another Mason, if he is a member of the mainstream Grand Lodge or Prince Hall Affiliated Grand Lodge of any State in the Union.   

I wish you well in your continued studies and research, and hope that you will consider my offering above as enlightenment, rather than condescending banter.   I simply wanted to make you aware that I was in your very shoes until I became healed into a Prince Hall Affiliated Lodge in August 2010.   I appreciate the Brothers in my Old Lodge for teaching me what they did, but I appreciate the Brother who brought me to FURTHER Light in Prince Hall Masonry, my Worshipful Master, Bro. William Ross, 32, even more.   He simply provided the key to the door; I stepped in and continued my research and studies, and have an amazing wealth of information at my disposal NOW that I didnt have before.   Most importantly, I have a Masonic Recognition and a Certified Lineage that I can share with my two Sons when they become Men.   I sincerely hope you would consider the possibility of reaffiliation, as I did.   You will not have ONE regret, provided that you consult with and join a Mainstream or Prince Hall Affiliated Lodge with which you feel comfortable.    


Fraternally Submitted, Bro. Vincent C. Jones, Sr., Bayou City Lodge #228, PHA, F&AM, Houston, Texas


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## bupton52

Bro. Jones, I think that about said it all! Very enlightening post!


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## polmjonz

Bro. Jones very well said and thanks for the informative post.


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## hipcatscience

First let me say Bro. Jones, thank you for your thoughtful and detailed response as I am enjoying the discussion.
I'd like to retort on some of the points listed.

"I, too, am also a proud member of a Black Greek Letter Collegiate Fraternity. I am a Spring 1989 Initiate of Alpha Phi Alpha Fraternity, Incorporated, and pledged 12 weeks to EARN the right to WORK for, share bonds with Brothers within, and represent this Fraternity that I love dearly. My Chapter has a Charter issued by the National Organization, and operates to this day under Key #453, the MU NU Chapter, chartered April 24, 1976. It is recognized by our National Organization as a legitimate Undergraduate Chapter at an accredited institution of Higher Learning. As a true student of history like yourself, I aspired to become a Freemason once I discovered the ties that my Founders had to Prince Hall Freemasonry. I decided to become a Mason, and eventually became initiated, passed, and raised in what is known as a Black Four Letter Lodge here in Houston, Texas. (Mt. Sinai Grand Lodge"

I relate to you well Brother as I too am a member of Alpha Phi Alpha Fraternity Incorporated, Initiated into Xi Lambda Chapter, April 10, 2005, and indeed regardless for that alone Goodwill is truly the monarch of this House...
That being said I enjoy the LIGHT being shared here. And you are absolutely right.  The GO recognizes the subordinate chapters of the Fraternity and has to be from an accredited four year university. I do not argue that in the least bit.
Let me however direct you to Point 4 of the Landmarks of Freemasonry. With that alone one depending on interpretation has the opportunity to question the very Masonic Legality of the UGLE. As the question I pose is, what was Masonry BEFORE 1717? If the "story" we so ardently read is true then what makes 1717 so precious in the space of time as it comes off to the untrained eye and ear that Masonry didnt exist PRIOR to 1717. This "Revival" goes to the aristocratic nature of Masonry being adopted was by far more speculative than operative.

Now lets also consider point 25 of the Landmarks. And again this is not for argument or changing anyone's mind who is in eye or earshot just debating. Based on point 25, of the landmarks. Could not the very thing that made F&AM and AF&AM be considered a violation of the Landmarks? Just a point to consider and we haven't gotten to PHA or the PHA/PHO debate.

To some critics , they point to point 13 of the Landmarks but what reference is made to a MOTHER Lodge? Or United depending on language. as well point 17 can be said to supercede that. Which in organizational structure would make the Craft different from the Frat, as we know our Frat has regions but the regions deal at the behest of the GO.

As well Brother you bring up within America and we focus on America and England. Playing devils advocate to myself I see your point but are we truly naive enough to believe that we can only obtain a Master's wages between England and North America. The very nature of what makes us "Free" is to travel. And again I stress this is not to be combative as I am learning and I do see your points but I can help but to ask, the question that might be blasphemy to some, but  WHO was the UGLE to make itself the MOTHER if we are part of something that goes back to the days of the Temple. There seems to be a vacuum that no one either has or wants to address that fascinates me and fuels my knowledge...more to come on that Brother Jones

"It has NOTHING to do with classcism, and everything to do with what is recognized as adherence to Landmarks, Constitutions and By-Laws, and Oaths of Allegiance taken by Prince Hall Brothers in every Jurisdiction. It isn't an adherence that possesses hostility, racism, classcism, or even egotism.......It is an adherence to something that was not CREATED by Brother Prince Hall, but rather BESTOWED upon him and 14 other Men by Sgt. J D Batt of an Irish Military Lodge Foot Regiment, working under Charter issued by the Grand Lodge of Ireland. It was this "something" that earned Prince Hall the right to ask for and receive the Charter for African Lodge #459, which is the foundation of a form of Masonry which the UGLE has determined is regular in practice. Each and EVERY Prince Hall Affiliated (PHA) Lodge can tie their lineage back to this particular Lodge."

Penny for your thought good Brother.Prince Hall asked and received the Charter for 459# correct?  It is documented fact that after Prince Hall passed there was a vacuum. So where did the phrase PH Masons come from and how is it assumed that it is  under the Grand Lodge of England when Ireland "Irish Military Lodge" was under GL of Ireland which considered itself and Antient (Ancient).  A good example of this reference I make is even seen in all places a movie, not counting scholarly sources of Masonry, which I can send you but I dont want to inundate the board with links.  When you get a chance Brother, revisit the movie Rosewood and look when they are in the Lodge again. and you will see something that might catch your eye. and that is just a movie indeed. However I am willing to share true scholarly references as we men of scholarship as well.

I have much more to say yet work awaits me but I humbly await your response and others on this matter and this is a good discussion and I hope to learn more on the subject

Bro. Stewart


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## towerbuilder7

Well Brother, I have read your points, and all I can suggest to you is that you continue on your quest for knowledge.  Your line of questioning is indicative of your hunger for knowledge, which is good.   You should continue to converse with more well-informed Brethren, which can enhance your knowledge.    Debates are what some insecure Brothers do, but please understand that I won't do that, nor do I feel as if I have to* "defend" *Prince Hall Affiliated Masonry;  I have 237 years of History to back me and my form of Freemasonry.   Prince Hall Affiliated History is intertwined with American History.    Most of us that are true students of this "progressive science" with trained eyes and attentive ears are fully aware that Freemasonry didn't *ORIGINATE* in 1717.   There are reports which date the mention of Freemasonry back to King Athelstan in England as early as 926 CE, and even a little poem called the "Regius Poem" in the 1300's.  TRUE scholars are already aware that there is no documented "beginning" for WHAT WE KNOW NOW as FREEMasonry.

When you question how affiliations were styled, i.e.,* F&AM, AF&AM,* etc., this relates to the discussion between the "Antients" and the "Moderns", in early European FreeMasonry.  This isn't anything secret, so I won't be in violation of my Masonic obligation by pointing this out to you.   Look it up.  The information is available, and once you discover WHO these gentlemen were and what their differing philosophies were in relation to the Craft, then you will get a better understanding and a deeper respect for how they came together on common ground under the auspices of the Duke of Sussex in 1813. 

 The year 1801, and the State of South Carolina both carry some historical significance for what is commonly known as MODERN American based Freemasonry.    I will direct you to a Man named Albert Pike, and also another Man named Albert Gallatin Mackey, neither of whom believed that Freemasonry was to be shared with the Black Man.  It is simply a closed-minded opinion held by the two.   However, they each have a strong legacy left behind in American Freemasonry, with *Pike's "Morals and Dogma*", and *"Mackey's Jurisprudence"* being two literary offerings that come immediately to mind.  The *PHA/PHO debate *isn't a hard one.  At THIS time, Prince Hall Origin is NOT currently recognized by either the PHA or Mainstream Grand Lodges in either State.   There is some history behind that, in regard to what was known as the National Compact in 1847.  I can suggest a book for you with further LIGHT, titled,* "Inside Prince Hall", by David Gray*.   For ANY student of the Craft, it is a great read.  It delves into the history of Prince Hall Masonry, and how it is intertwined with American History, and also discusses the root of what we call "Black 4 Letter" masonry.     I got it on Amazon.


The Landmarks are and were established as GUIDELINES for the Craft.  I made no mention of being limited in *MY *ability to travel and receive Master's wages, because the PHA Masonry to which I am affiliated allows me to travel to States and Countries other than USA and England, and visit other Lodges, both PHA and Mainstream.   Unfortunately for you, the Masonry styled "AF&AM" in Black communities, commonly referred to as "4 Letter masonry", will most definitely limit which Lodges YOU can visit, due to it being *"regular, but NOT RECOGNIZED"*.   Four and Five Letter Brothers (IFAAM) often grow tired of this as it is mentioned, but this is the system of Masonry which we practice, and one SHOULD NOT want to affiliate with a Masonic Body that does not offer *FULL *rights and benefits.  This is one of the reasons that I left, and petitioned a Prince Hall Affiliated Lodge, Brother.   

ALL of the research, studying, lively debates, Offices held, etc., didn't equate to ANYTHING, because here in Houston, and in most cities around the Country, these "4 Letter Grand Lodges" that co-exist in the same cities, don't even affiliate with EACH OTHER.  And, furthermore, and most importantly, I was unable to visit Masonically with my friends and co-workers who were Prince Hall Brothers, because the MWPHGLTX does NOT recognize Black 4 Letter Masonry, and neither does the GLoTx, AF&AM.   So, I was in a precarious position, so to speak.   The only Masons that recognized me were the Brothers in my own "Grand Lodge", and General Grand Masonic Congress affiliated (John G Jones) "Grand Lodges" in other States, NONE OF WHICH were recognized in their respective States by PHA or Mainstream Grand Lodges.  Had I chosen to stay there, these were the only Lodges with whom I would be able to legally and masonically affiliate.  I didn't become a FREEmason to be limited in my travels or my thinking.


Another thing you have to understand is that sometimes, brothers in this day and time judge Freemasonry and things done in the  past based on what and how we practice TODAY.   The UGLE is considered the hub of MODERN Freemasonry as we know it; NO ONE in a Regular and Recognized Lodge will debate that, due to the establishment of the *Modern* form of Freemasonry and its ways and means which eminate from England, Ireland, and Scotland.      In regard to your reference to "The Temple", what a student of History reads about in Biblical and Masonic History and research in reference to the Temple is indeed considered an *ancient operative tradecraft*, with secret signs, symbols, touches, and apprenticeships, and for some, even a requirement of family lineage or relation.  

 Masonry was mentioned as early as the book of Genesis, Chapter 3, as the Tower of Babel was constructed, but it is fully operative in scope and function, and can be considered a PROGENITOR of what I practice.   I am truly a *SPECULATIVE Freemason of a Progressive Science*, who lives his life according to GOD's word, as well as the morals and lessons that are taught using symbols and tools once used by Operative Stonemasons, to inculcate a series of lessons and a moral standard for my daily walk. 

 I am also a student and avid reader of the esoteric teachings found regarding Alchemy, Mysticism, Pagan Rite and Ritualism, The Temple at Cheops, Egyptian Mystery Schools, Jesus and the Essenes, African Pantheism and its evolution into modern religion, etc.   *But, please be careful and mindful that no matter what you read or become exposed to in your studies*, *NEITHER OF THESE are or should be practiced in conjunction with or in place of PURE FREEMASONRY in a REGULAR AND RECOGNIZED Masonic Lodge*.  Mainstream and Prince Hall Affiliated Masonry have evolved, and are a lot more organized in scope and function than they were 100 years ago; a good example is THIS FORUM, where one can exchange ideas with another across the country via the Internet.    

And a word of caution for you, since you are young in your Masonic travels.   There are some VERY spurious forms of BOGUS MASONRY out there, some of which contain as many as *96 DEGREES*, and will attempt to convince you that you must infuse an African (Egyptian) influence into what we practice in Modern Freemasonry.  They will also attempt to convince you that you must conform to Masonry with an "Egyptian influence" in order to be closer to your African heritage.   I am NOT a Shriner yet, however, I know enough about Esoteric Teachings at this point to know that the knowledge is already THERE; *YOU JUST HAVE TO AFFILIATE YOURSELF WITH THE PROPER LODGES AND HIGHER HOUSES TO RECEIVE THE PROPER KNOWLEDGE FROM LEGITIMATE* *SOURCES*.   No need to continue to practice what some term the BOGUS, un-recognized, or clandestine Masonry as others do, and ADD or subtract information to or from an already established system of Masonic education; just affiliate yourself with the right Lodge, and study each of your Degrees from the PROPER RITUAL, and you will DISCOVER THE INFLUENCE.   Others NOT affiliated with either Mainstream or PHA Masonry will attempt to tell you that none of what I'm saying matters, because "it's all the same".   

Trust me, I have seen BOTH sides,* IT ISN'T THE SAME*.   That's why I don't feel the need to debate, simply enlighten......And last, but certainly not least, *where* are you getting your Prince Hall history?   There was no "vacuum" in the practice of Masonry after Prince Hall's death in 1807.   Also, you questioned where we got the phrase "PH Masons" from.   Our form of Masonry was renamed such as a dedication and testament to the Man who did his part to make this legacy possible here in America for the Black Man.   We declared our independence from the United Grand Lodge of England in 1827, by printing a letter in a Boston newspaper, and forged ahead with the plan to continue to make Free and Accepted Masonry available to the Man of Color in other States, namely Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, Ohio, New York, and other States west of the Allegheny Mountains, for starters.  The State of Ohio is one of the MOST influential in the expansion of Prince Hall Freemasonry, as it spread to States to the South and West.   

The Council of Grand Masters again agreed to name each PHA Grand Lodge as such in 1944, as States agreed to style themselves Most Worshipful Prince Hall Grand Lodge of ......, Free and Accepted Masons.     If you purchase the book I made mention above, it will outline information for you about that which you are inquiring.   Prince Hall Affiliated Masonry has been recognized as "regular in origin" since 1994, by the United Grand Lodge of England.  Prince Hall and 14 others were raised in a Military Lodge on *March 6, 1775*, which was under the control and governance of Grand Lodge of Ireland.  

So, I didn't develop a sense of identity and pride in Prince Hall Affiliated Freemasonry simply because the UGLE made a statement "declaring us to be regular" in 1994.   My pride eminates from the fact that Prince Hall requested and received a Charter from the Premier Grand Lodge of England in 1787, while many of our people were still in bondage, allowing him and the Brothers of African Lodge #459 to operate as a regular and recognized Lodge of Free and Accepted Masonry.   This Charter is still in a Bank Vault in Boston, Massachusetts.   *NO need to beg for recognition, when you've had it the entire time*..............I hope you were able to receive some LIGHT that you desired, Young Brother.  And, do yourself a favor, pick up that book.......I have a list of others whenever you're ready..........see you on the other side..........*Bro. Vincent C. Jones, Bayou City Lodge #228, P.H.A., F&AM, Houston, Texas*


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## Phre-massen.nash

Why Prince Hall Masonry? In the begining I did not know that there were AF & AM and F & AM.  When I first decided to petition for degree work, I called the closest Lodge (AF&AM) and spoke to the Secretary, set up an appointment, even came ten minutes early.  The day of my appointment I knocked on the door, to be greeted by a Mason, who not only did not let me in the door but told me "you might want to try the Lodge in------------" whose name I will not dispose.  So I was thinking he came at me in an awkward way.  I brushed it off and was like I'm thinking about it the wrong way.

But to my suprise I was right in the way I was approached.  I went to the Lodge, that he suggested, which was also AF & AM.  I was told by the WM that it may be hard to get in, but he is willing to stick his next out for me.  And that if I do not get in he would step down.  So I petitioned the Lodge and got blackballed for 5 yrs.  Exact words of the WM "some rednecks came out that night, thought it was funny, and voted against you"

Sure enough WM Noyce stepped down.  I contacted GLofTX months later and filed a complaint/report.  But they had no record of me even petitioning the Lodge. Needless to say I sturred up some commotion.  Months later I moved to Beaumont, TX and was Initiated, Passed, and Raised at Pride of Beaumont Masonic Lodge #291, P.H.A.

So back to the question: Why Prince Hall Masonry?
Answer: this was in 2003 with this incident.  Here it is, I have been a Prince Hall Master Mason since November 2003, and the same issues still apply. The issue is racism.  

There are some AF & AM white Masons that will pull up along side me and throw me a sign, and there are others that will not even acknowledge me.  In my opinion and this is coming from being a Mason almost ten yrs: F & AM will let a white man in quicker than AF & AM will let a black or hispanic man in.  So the real question should not be "Why Prince Hall Masonry?" But something along the lines of "Why is Masonry still segregated?"

If this organization is about brotherly love, relief, and truth, making good men better, applying the same tools as Operative Masons to build up ourselves, then why is there so much hatred and disbelief, and racism.

Last point: If you say you are a Freemason, do you live the life of a Phre-Massen. Or do you just pay dues, go to meeting and functions, wear emblem, etc. Or do you square your actions, knock off the superfluities of life, and spread the cement of brotherly love. How well do you use your 24 inch gauge?


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