# Shrine Outlaws Confederate Battle Flag



## My Freemasonry

The Shrine has outlawed the Confederate battle flag in its parades and events:


_SHRINERS INTERNATIONAL
Special Order No. 4
Series 2015-2016_
_To the Potentates, Officers and Members of Shriners International, fraternal greetings: Attention has been drawn to the political debate over the Confederate Battle Flag in the wake of the recent incident in Charleston, SC. As a result, in my opinion, as Imperial Potentate, I believe it is in the best interest of the Order and the Nobility that no temple, unit, club or member of Shriners International shall display in any form the Confederate Battle Flag or any image that reasonably can be construed as a reference to the Confederate Battle Flag._
_Under the circumstances, it is my opinion, as the Imperial Potentate of Shriners International, that the following order with respect to the Potentates, Officers and Members of Shriners International should be, and hereby is issued._
_ORDER
Now, therefore, by virtue of the authority vested in me by § 206.5(a) (1) and (5) of the bylaws of Shriners International, IT IS HEREBY ORDERED:
CONFEDERATE BATTLE FLAG PROHIBITION
No Noble (in his capacity as a member of Shriners International) or club, unit, organization of Nobles or affiliated or appendant organizations of Shriners International, shall display any Confederate Battle Flag or any image that reasonably can be construed as a reference to the Confederate Battle Flag in Shrine or Civic Parades, Temple activities or in Shrine or non-Shrine public appearances.
No Noble (in his capacity as a member of Shriners International) or club, unit, organization of Nobles or affiliated or appendant organizations of Shriners International, shall participate in non-Shrine public appearances in which a Confederate Battle Flag or any image that reasonably can be construed as a reference to the Confederate Battle Flag is expected to be displayed by the organizer, promoter or by those in control of the premises or facility of the non-Shrine event._
_Dated this 10th day of August, 2015
Jerry G. Gantt, Imperial Potentate
ATTEST: Jack H. Jones, Imperial Recorder_

Continue reading...


----------



## Bro. Stewart P.M.

_SHRINERS INTERNATIONAL
Special Order No. 4
Series 2015-2016_
_To the Potentates, Officers and Members of Shriners International, fraternal greetings: Attention has been drawn to the political debate over the Confederate Battle Flag in the wake of the recent incident in Charleston, SC. As a result, in my opinion, as Imperial Potentate, I believe it is in the best interest of the Order and the Nobility that no temple, unit, club or member of Shriners International shall display in any form the Confederate Battle Flag or any image that reasonably can be construed as a reference to the Confederate Battle Flag._
_Under the circumstances, it is my opinion, as the Imperial Potentate of Shriners International, that the following order with respect to the Potentates, Officers and Members of Shriners International should be, and hereby is issued._
_ORDER
Now, therefore, by virtue of the authority vested in me by § 206.5(a) (1) and (5) of the bylaws of Shriners International, IT IS HEREBY ORDERED:
CONFEDERATE BATTLE FLAG PROHIBITION
No Noble (in his capacity as a member of Shriners International) or club, unit, organization of Nobles or affiliated or appendant organizations of Shriners International, shall display any Confederate Battle Flag or any image that reasonably can be construed as a reference to the Confederate Battle Flag in Shrine or Civic Parades, Temple activities or in Shrine or non-Shrine public appearances.
No Noble (in his capacity as a member of Shriners International) or club, unit, organization of Nobles or affiliated or appendant organizations of Shriners International, shall participate in non-Shrine public appearances in which a Confederate Battle Flag or any image that reasonably can be construed as a reference to the Confederate Battle Flag is expected to be displayed by the organizer, promoter or by those in control of the premises or facility of the non-Shrine event._
_Dated this 10th day of August, 2015
Jerry G. Gantt, Imperial Potentate_


*****REPOSTED TO MAKE LEGIBLE TO READERS*****


----------



## dfreybur

Eventually this order may need to be changed in detail to allow activities at museums.  For example at some historical sites in Texas there are displays of the 6 flags that have historically flown over the region.  In such a case it becomes just a piece of history not a statement of identity or policy.


----------



## Bro. Stewart P.M.

At this point my hobby of reenacting is over, and those of us with related tattoos are "in violation" no matter the reason.


----------



## Glen Cook

It does not effect reenactors.  I doubt if there are that many Shriners with a visible confederate flag tattoo.


----------



## Bro. Stewart P.M.

Glen Cook said:


> It does not effect reenactors.  I doubt if there are that many Shriners with a visible confederate flag tattoo.



Well, Civil War reenactments "display" several versions of Confederate Flags, including the Battle Flag.... So, no per the second paragraph as a non-Shrine event where....

As for tattoos, it would depend upon event and attire.


----------



## dfreybur

Bro. Stewart P.M. said:


> At this point my hobby of reenacting is over



Thus my comment on the exact wording.  One paragraph but not both mention "in their capacity".  So according to one paragraph Shriners can't attend.  And according to the other paragraph we just switch to our MM ring, take the Fez out of the trunk to leave it at home.

Reenactments are your hobby.  Going to museums is my hobby.  Both are hobbies affected with this wording.


----------



## LAMason

How does the Shrine define: "_in his capacity as a member of Shriners International"? _I am not a member of the Shrine, so I don't have a dog in this fight, but it seems to be an overreach and overreaction, saying that someone can not display something in/at a Shrine activity is one thing, to say they can't do it just because they are a member of the Shrine is an entirely different proposition.


----------



## vangoedenaam

I dont understand the fuss about this at all. I can flag as i want in my country. Freedom of flagch. Why is a 'picture' on a piece of cloth suddenly a problem? Sounds like the mohammed cartoons problem to me. Seems kinda backward. Of course, im no american, so i might be missing something here...


----------



## JJones

vangoedenaam said:


> I dont understand the fuss about this at all. I can flag as i want in my country. Freedom of flagch. Why is a 'picture' on a piece of cloth suddenly a problem? Sounds like the mohammed cartoons problem to me. Seems kinda backward. Of course, im no american, so i might be missing something here...



Because the possibility of offending someone, even if it is due to their own ignorance, has become an unthinkable crime here.  Better to do away with anything that might have the remote possibility of upsetting someone...it's the politically correct thing to do, even if you don't happen to be a politician.


----------



## GKA

This is a ridiculous overreaction
If you had outlawed the flag prior to the events in SC, then that would be a different matter
As it now stands, it looks like you are punishing those brothers who were legal before your edict, just to make a social political statement
What a shame


----------



## Bro. Stewart P.M.

This is the official "clarification" from Shriners International:

http://shrinersinternational.org/Press/SOStatementForSI.aspx


----------



## Bro. Stewart P.M.

This generic PR "cover" statement is not a correct interpretation of the verbiage of the Order. If so, then it needs re-written in such a manner that even dumb folks like me make absolutely no mistake with "interpretation".

If I can mis-it, so can a Temple...


----------



## BroBook

I have one thing to say brothers, and will not go further, whatever anyone feels or think, the basic rule is my hood my colors, as far as countries go, if I win you can not fly your flag unless you are ready to go to war!!!


----------



## Bro. Stewart P.M.

The thing is, this whole "Order" should not have even come up. This was not an issue within the Shrine, and now it is because a leader of a stated non-political group has taken a political stance.

We've come a long way in out great Fraternity to make everyone equal, including tearing down years of walls and misunderstanding. This going to do nothing more than drive folks away.

There is a very good reason why politics & religion are not discussed and candidates are admitted solely by the content of their inner character. And I am completely happy with the foundations of our Brotherhood.


That's just my humble 2-cents, I'll not comment further.


----------



## Glen Cook

Bro. Stewart P.M. said:


> Well, Civil War reenactments "display" several versions of Confederate Flags, including the Battle Flag.... So, no per the second paragraph as a non-Shrine event where....
> 
> As for tattoos, it would depend upon event and attire.


No, as you are not participating as a Shriner.  I doubt if there are that many Shriners with a visible Confederate flag tattoos. I actually doubt if there are that many Masons with such visible tattoos.


----------



## Levelhead

BroBook said:


> I have one thing to say brothers, and will not go further, whatever anyone feels or think, the basic rule is my hood my colors, as far as countries go, if I win you can not fly your flag unless you are ready to go to war!!!


I fly my flag in front of my house. 


Sent from Mossy Oak Swamp Bottom.


----------



## BroBook

This is America, freedom of speech, but don't say bomb unless their is one.


----------



## LAMason

BroBook said:


> the basic rule is my hood my colors



We do not go by "gangsta" rules in most of this Country.



BroBook said:


> you can not fly your flag unless you are ready to go to war!!!



Go to war with who?



BroBook said:


> but don't say bomb unless their [sic] is one



Who said anything about a bomb?


----------



## dfreybur

Levelhead said:


> I fly my flag in front of my house.



"My" flag, if we're talking battle flags, is the US Navy flag of the Cold War era (no change since then so this is the current US Navy banner).  Plus the banner from my squadron and maybe the banner from my boot camp company.    Just saying ...

My non-battle flags are the US flags during the time I have been alive (I'm a year younger than two states, so the 48, 49 and 50 star versions).  Plus the state flags of every state I have lived in long enough to have established residency.


----------



## Rifleman1776

Bro. Stewart P.M. said:


> At this point my hobby of reenacting is over, and those of us with related tattoos are "in violation" no matter the reason.


 That is a gross overreation IMHO. Decide where your priorties are and go that direction.


----------



## Bro. Stewart P.M.

Apparently not that gross of an "overreaction" if International is responding to e-mails about this Order with a standardized PR post on a web page. Obviously my "reaction"is not the only one of a similar nature to a poorly worded statement.... You think?


Submitted my Demit, yesterday.

Thanks.


----------



## Rifleman1776

Bro. Stewart P.M. said:


> Submitted my Demit, yesterday.
> 
> Thanks.


 Sorry to hear that. But we all make choices. In Arkansas, the Shrine is considered clandestine. I almost left Freemasonry to stay with Shrine. Fortunately, I was accepted into a Lodge in Missouri (I live near the state line) and now am both. But, I am also an historical reenactor of the Revolutionary Rifleman and display a Bennington flag at my home. If Masonry or Shrine banned that I would certainly leave. All the best to you.


----------



## Bro. Stewart P.M.

Rifleman1776 said:


> Sorry to hear that. But we all make choices. In Arkansas, the Shrine is considered clandestine. I almost left Freemasonry to stay with Shrine. Fortunately, I was accepted into a Lodge in Missouri (I live near the state line) and now am both. But, I am also an historical reenactor of the Revolutionary Rifleman and display a Bennington flag at my home. If Masonry or Shrine banned that I would certainly leave. All the best to you.



I revised my my post.


----------



## Pscyclepath

Civil War history is what brought me to Masonry in the first place, so the topic is a little near and dear to my heart.   Truthfully, this sort of reinforces the negative impression of the Shrine which I've been getting all along, I came into the Craft just after the Arkansas/Shrine blow-up back in 2011, so I admit what I've seen and heard of them has been negative in the first place.  

One thing Masonry seeks to teach us is tolerance, that every brother is to search within his own heart, and based on experience and the light, determine for himself what is good and true.  But the Shrine keeps saying they're not actually a Masonic organization, so I guess they're still following that line...


----------



## Dontrell Stroman

Wow, this is sad. Next thing you know, they'll be talking about removing the "Friend to Friend" monument.


----------



## Rifleman1776

Pscyclepath said:


> Civil War history is what brought me to Masonry in the first place, so the topic is a little near and dear to my heart.   Truthfully, this sort of reinforces the negative impression of the Shrine which I've been getting all along, I came into the Craft just after the Arkansas/Shrine blow-up back in 2011, so I admit what I've seen and heard of them has been negative in the first place.
> 
> One thing Masonry seeks to teach us is tolerance, that every brother is to search within his own heart, and based on experience and the light, determine for himself what is good and true.  But the Shrine keeps saying they're not actually a Masonic organization, so I guess they're still following that line...


 
You are right, Shrine is not a Masonic organization. But, it was formed on Masonic principals and, still, in most states, Shrine requires Masonic membership to join. But those are Shrine requirement. Masonry has no control over Shrine, they are separate organizations.


----------



## Glen Cook

Rifleman1776 said:


> You are right, Shrine is not a Masonic organization. But, it was formed on Masonic principals and, still, in most states, Shrine requires Masonic membership to join. But those are Shrine requirement. Masonry has no control over Shrine, they are separate organizations.


I avoid the argument of whether  shrine is a Masonic organization. It is, except in one state, an organization with a Masonic prerequisite. Therefore, a Grand Lodge does have control  over the members of the organization. That is the common law of masonry in this country.


----------



## LAMason

The order says  "Attention has been drawn to the political debate over the Confederate Battle", so it appears that the intent of the order is to take a stand in the political debate.  The Shrine claims that they stand for Freemasonry principles, so taking a stand _as an organization_ in a "political debate" certainly violates those principles.

If the Shrine had made a statement prohibiting the display of any emblem or symbol _at a Shrine event or facility_  that could be considered making a political statement that would have been different.  There are many symbols that denote a political affiliation or belief.  What if someone is displaying a political party symbol, a hammer and sickle, a picture of Malcom X or Nation of Islam Flag.

Again, full disclosure, I am not now, have never been, or ever will be a member of the Shrine.

Note:  I edited the original post by adding the text in italics to clarify that I was not referring to what a Freemason, Shrine member or not, does in the way of  having or making a personal political view or statement.


----------



## ChristopherNance

I refuse join the Shrine as long as this shameful law is in effect.

Keep politics out of Masonry. 

Sent from my SM-S975L using My Freemasonry Pro mobile app


----------



## Glen Cook

ChristopherNance said:


> I refuse join the Shrine as long as this shameful law is in effect.
> 
> Keep politics out of Masonry.
> 
> Sent from my SM-S975L using My Freemasonry Pro mobile app


And yet, we have GLs which "abhor" Communism, require support of the Constitution....


----------



## Bro. Stewart P.M.

It is important to note (though too late IMO) the Imperial Potentate rescinded the Order. It is no longer in effect.

I finally got confirmation of my Demit about 3 weeks ago, it was submitted in August 2015.


----------



## jermy Bell

i have found it to be very sad to watch the extremes that people go to over an inanimate object. it being a piece of cloth, or a symbol etched into something. If everyone could take two lessons from masonry, i would suggest ( learn to subdue your passions ,and see that we are one family under one mighty parent)..... but it doesn't work that way..........


----------



## Jason A. Mitchell

Glen Cook said:


> I avoid the argument of whether  shrine is a Masonic organization. It is, except in one state, an organization with a Masonic prerequisite. Therefore, a Grand Lodge does have control  over the members of the organization. That is the common law of masonry in this country.



This cannot be stated enough and applies to all organizations counted within the _Masonic Family_.


----------



## ChristopherNance

jermy Bell said:


> i have found it to be very sad to watch the extremes that people go to over an inanimate object. it being a piece of cloth, or a symbol etched into something. If everyone could take two lessons from masonry, i would suggest ( learn to subdue your passions ,and see that we are one family under one mighty parent)..... but it doesn't work that way..........


I concur. Who wants to be a part of an organization whom outlaws inanimate objects in lieu of politics.  

Sent from my SM-S975L using My Freemasonry Pro mobile app


----------

