# Strongly Discouraged...



## Bro. Stewart P.M. (Sep 23, 2012)

Brethren,

I come before all of you in a personal rant. I recently found out that our beloved AASR is raising the cost for new Brothers to join the goup. From what I have been told that the cost for initiation & dues is being raised from $250 to $500 (each)!!

As most of you know, I am very active in my home Lodge as well as the York Rite. I had originally intended to go through the AASR once I finished my year in the East at Thomas B. Hunter. However due to this recent change, it appears that I will never see the other side of the "pyramid" in freemasonry. I can not, nor will I ever be able to afford this venture. Gentlemen, I ENDOWED in both my Lodges as well as my YR Chapter & Council for $500!!

Out of humor, the members of the Grand Prairie AASR jokingly suggest that I join before the end of the year... My reasoning for waiting is in both time and money, therefore not a viable option. Sorry. Of course the positive side of me believes that this cost increase is going to do nothing but increase the membership and involvement in York Rite!



Fraternally,
Dedicated Permanently to York Rite Masonry


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## Bro. Kurt P.M. (Sep 23, 2012)

I see both sides of the coin with this .  I hope some day to see you get capped.  See you at lodge.


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## Bro. Stewart P.M. (Sep 23, 2012)

Bro. Kurt said:


> I see both sides of the coin with this .  I hope some day to see you get capped.  See you at lodge.



I know that you are also right Bro. Kurt. Things often change for a reason. I just can not justify such a cost for dues in a masonic body that I have no intention to become active in...

Photo of me Capped


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## Tony Uzzell (Sep 23, 2012)

I've found that, dues and price increases aside, most Masons will find the money (and the time, for that matter) to be active in those things that they find value in.

For example, I find value in activity. I get bored with organizations where there's nothing for me to do. As much as I've enjoyed the symbolism and the esotericism in the Scottish Rite, but the meetings I've attended have generally been dull outside of the fellowship and conversations I've had. That's nothing against the Scottish Rite, it's just the nature of the organization. That is, in the AASR's defense, why Waco, and a lot of other Scottish Rite groups, have worked to find a way to make their meetings more involved for the general membership. In all honesty, I've been working to find a way to get back into the Scottish Rite and hopefully I'll be more active toward the end of this year and the beginning of the next.

That is also, however, why I got involved and active with the York Rite when I first joined here in Waco. They put me immediately to work and into the Chairs and I stayed involved, hence the list of titles in my signature.

TU


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## Bro. Stewart P.M. (Sep 23, 2012)

Tony Uzzell said:


> I've found that, dues and price increases aside, most Masons will find the money (and the time, for that matter) to be active in those things that they find value in.
> 
> For example, I find value in activity. I get bored with organizations where there's nothing for me to do. As much as I've enjoyed the symbolism and the esotericism in the Scottish Rite, but the meetings I've attended have generally been dull outside of the fellowship and conversations I've had. That's nothing against the Scottish Rite, it's just the nature of the organization. That is, in the AASR's defense, why Waco, and a lot of other Scottish Rite groups, have worked to find a way to make their meetings more involved for the general membership. In all honesty, I've been working to find a way to get back into the Scottish Rite and hopefully I'll be more active toward the end of this year and the beginning of the next.
> 
> ...



Well said.


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## Bro. Kurt P.M. (Sep 23, 2012)

Brother Stewart, the $500 is for initiation which includes a list of items. 
Your Cap
14th degree ring ( in a plastic pyramid )
Dues for the year
Morals and Dogma ( book)
A bridge go light ( book)
Lapel Pin
And a few other items. 
The Scottish Rite actually lost money in the past.   I'm sure this is part of the reason for the increase.  

Just sayin


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## BroBill (Sep 23, 2012)

Bro. Stewart, I definitely feel your pain. I endowed in both my blue lodges, my Scottish Rite Valley, and my York Rite (including one of my Commanderies), yet I still support each with an additional check each year to cover per capita + a bit extra.  

I've been approached by other bodies about joining and in addition to the time and committment, cost is becoming a big factor, even for those of us who are endowed members. It definitely takes some soul searching when it comes to matching time to masonic body and also to $$.  

For me it became easier as I progressed in the York Rite and I discovered my passion for the work and the relationship to the first three degrees.  Ultimately we have to choose our path and the one that is the "rite fit" (pardon the pun, couldn't resist). I wish you luck as you work through your decisions and journey; any masonic body that finds you laboring in their quarry is a lucky body indeed...  

Hum, managed to use a lot of words and really didn't say much - other than there are brothers that understand and empathize with you!

BroBill


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## tomasball (Sep 23, 2012)

along with SR initiation also comes membership in the Master Craftsman program, which is a bargain at any price.


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## JustinScott (Sep 23, 2012)

Bro. Stewart said:


> Brethren,
> 
> I come before all of you in a personal rant. I recently found out that our beloved AASR is raising the cost for new Brothers to join the goup. From what I have been told that the cost for initiation & dues is being raised from $250 to $500 (each)!!
> 
> ...






A perpetual membership at my lodge cost 200 dollars down and a total off 1400 dollars and is increasing too 2400 dollars total I feel your pain. How come yours is less expensive?


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## Hndrx (Sep 23, 2012)

I joined the Scottish Rite at the last reunion.  I went ahead and did an endowment.  (I'm glad from my own personal standpoint that I went ahead and did that.)  Had the dues increase occurred before my reunion, I would have reconsidered doing it.  I would have most likely went with a different Masonic group.


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## Ashlar (Sep 24, 2012)

I went through the SR years ago before they raised the fees . Honestly I found no value in the SR that I could not do on my own . I could not continue paying dues to a body that I can not be active in . It is over 150 miles (one way ) from my home to my Valley's Temple . Between my time and cost of fuel , it is just not worth it . If they were to raise their petition fee / dues / degree fees to $500 , I just do not see it worth it for anyone in my area to join the SR . 

We have another Valley somewhat closer , around 110 miles (one way) away , but they never travel to our area to hold reunions . And 110 miles is still to far to be active .

We do have a SR Club , but it is not worth my time and gas to get out for nothing more than listening to them talk about how many petitions they need .

I was "strongly discouraged" shortly after my reunion and it had nothing to do with money , but that they had nothing to offer me that I could not do on my own because , as I stated above , was over lack of being able to be active . I knew after the newness wore off that I would be demitting and regretted spending the money that could have went to something else .


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## Bro. Stewart P.M. (Sep 24, 2012)

I am really enjoying everyone's input in this discussion, thanks!


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## MarkR (Sep 25, 2012)

Bro. Stewart said:


> I know that you are also right Bro. Kurt. Things often change for a reason. *I just can not justify such a cost for dues in a masonic body that I have no intention to become active in*...


I have to question why anybody would join a Masonic body that they have no intention of becoming active in, regardless of cost.  Just to have another dues card in your wallet?


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## Bro. Stewart P.M. (Sep 25, 2012)

No, I wanted to see what the AASR had to offer for the good of masonry. I am curious as to the variance in lessons on the "other side" of the pyramid. I by no means am in for a dues card hunt.


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## Ashlar (Sep 25, 2012)

MarkR said:


> I have to question why anybody would join a Masonic body that they have no intention of becoming active in, regardless of cost.  Just to have another dues card in your wallet?




You would be surprised by the answer to that question . A very VERY small percentage of Masons in my area are active in the SR . There are no active members in my two lodges , none are willing to drive the distance . We have the YR right here in our backyard . Dues are about the same in both bodies , yet the petition and degree fees are cheaper in my YR bodies . BUT the SR is by far more popular . Why ? I know the reason and would love to see if anyone here can take a guess to that answer ?


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## dreamer (Sep 25, 2012)

Ashlar said:


> You would be surprised by the answer to that question . A very VERY small percentage of Masons in my area are active in the SR . There are no active members in my two lodges , none are willing to drive the distance . We have the YR right here in our backyard . Dues are about the same in both bodies , yet the petition and degree fees are cheaper in my YR bodies . BUT the SR is by far more popular . Why ? I know the reason and would love to see if anyone here can take a guess to that answer ?



My guess might be way off, but I think a Brother is a 32 degree sounds impressive and looks look at the end of a signature.


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## BroBill (Sep 25, 2012)

I had to join both SR and YR to see which was right for me. I became very active in York Rite and not so much in the Scottish Rite. I joined SR first and endowed before I joined the York Rite. Once I took the first Chapter degree I knew I would spend a lot of time in York Rite labors.


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## Pscyclepath (Sep 25, 2012)

Scottish Rite fees here in Arkansas are $150 for initiation and the first year's dues.  I have not petitioned yet, but probably will  do so next spring or fall, if my cable tow permits.  Like Bro. Stewart, I did join the York Rite, and have really liked about every bit of time I've put into that...  definitely hooked on the York.

As for why the SR is so popular, it's those 32nd and 33rd degree guys who get into all the movies and conspiracy plots, and attract all the hot chicks.  Plus, in many case in York Rite you work thru yuor degrees one by one, like the blue lodge with no proficiency lecture...  whereas in the SR you spend a day and a half or so in the Reunion and come out the end as as 32nd.   Easier that way if the Shrine is (was) one of your goals...


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## Nate Riley (Sep 25, 2012)

Bro. Stewart said:


> I know that you are also right Bro. Kurt. Things often change for a reason. I just can not justify such a cost for dues in a masonic body that I have no intention to become active in...
> 
> Photo of me Capped



I was seriously hoping this was a photo of you in a fez!!! I don't see why you are so worried about the Scottish Rite, you're already a Shriner!:17::beer2:


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## Brent Heilman (Sep 26, 2012)

For my Scottish Rite Valley the charge is $175 for the degrees, loot, and first years dues. I enjoy going to the reunions each Spring and Fall and seeing the degrees. I work at each reunion so I am not just sitting in a chair watching it all take place. I am also on a degree team for two of the degrees. If you want to take them time to dig into to each degree there is a lot there to learned. It is a 4 hour drive to get to the Temple but it is 4 hours of some of the Brothers from my Lodge to have a nice long conversation about life and Masonry. Like anything else in Masonry you will get out of it what you put into it. If it is something that means anything to you the work and learning process isn't a chore, but a pleasure.


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## Bro. Stewart P.M. (Sep 26, 2012)

Nate Riley said:


> I was seriously hoping this was a photo of you in a fez!!! I don't see why you are so worried about the Scottish Rite, you're already a Shriner!:17::beer2:



I have one of me in a fez too, on my FaceBook page. I belong to Hella Temple in Dallas!


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## barryguitar (Sep 26, 2012)

Brother Stewart, Having met you last year at a forum in Grand Prairie I was instantly impressed by the seriousness in which you practice the craft. I am so thankful to you and the other moderators here on MoT. This was upsetting to me that you feel this way. I took a little time thinking I would compose some long winded retort in defense of Scottish Rite. I will just say this: All the esoteric stuff that I thought I was looking for when I became a Mason but didn't receive in the symbolic lodge I did find in the AARS. The number one thing that the Scottish Rite offers, specially here in the valley of Dallas is the University Symposium Lecture Series, and it is not required that you be a SR mason to attend. We have an education night, last Thursday of every month, that features a different speaker each month on a wide range of topics, and believe me they have been marvelous! The fellowship after the meetings are often as good and informative as the lectures themselves. I would like to extend to you an invitation to come join us in Dallas for one of these nights and get a good taste of what you will be missing.


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## MarkR (Sep 27, 2012)

Pscyclepath said:


> ...in many case in York Rite you work thru yuor degrees one by one, like the blue lodge with no proficiency lecture...  whereas in the SR you spend a day and a half or so in the Reunion and come out the end as as 32nd.   Easier that way if the Shrine is (was) one of your goals...


Not so around here.  The York Rite bodies have been doing one-day "festivals" I think they call them.  In my SR Valley of Rochester, we don't do reunions at all; we confer or communicate all 29 degrees over a ten month schedule each year.  The Minneapolis Valley to our north confers all 29 degrees in full form twice a year (over about five months each time) and they do a spring reunion, and the St. Paul Valley confers all 29 over the course of a year and also does a reunion.


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## Bro. Stewart P.M. (Sep 29, 2012)

barryguitar said:


> Brother Stewart, Having met you last year at a forum in Grand Prairie I was instantly impressed by the seriousness in which you practice the craft. I am so thankful to you and the other moderators here on MoT. This was upsetting to me that you feel this way. I took a little time thinking I would compose some long winded retort in defense of Scottish Rite. I will just say this: All the esoteric stuff that I thought I was looking for when I became a Mason but didn't receive in the symbolic lodge I did find in the AARS. The number one thing that the Scottish Rite offers, specially here in the valley of Dallas is the University Symposium Lecture Series, and it is not required that you be a SR mason to attend. We have an education night, last Thursday of every month, that features a different speaker each month on a wide range of topics, and believe me they have been marvelous! The fellowship after the meetings are often as good and informative as the lectures themselves. I would like to extend to you an invitation to come join us in Dallas for one of these nights and get a good taste of what you will be missing.



Bro. Barry, many thanks for your compliments. I do indeed take our fraternity and its rituals Very seriously. Masonry means the world to me and I am a better person for having been a small part of it!! Bro. Kurt Joye (also posting here) has also invited me to these open nights that the SR puts on. unfortunately these have a habit of conflicting with the floor school or degree nights at TBH, since we are active on both Tuesday and Thursday evenings. As a senior officer, I am obligated to attend. I do wish to make one ot the SR educational events in the near future though!! Please keep me posted!


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## Bro. Stewart P.M. (Sep 29, 2012)

Brothers, I have NOTHING against the AASR. Please do not misunderstand my sentiments. Financially, I have my "eggs" in one basket... The increased cost of the AASR just simply comes at a bad time in my masonic career. I have been and always will be dedicated to my home lodge, and to the YR. Maybe some day after I can pay my endowments in my other appendant bodies, then I can afford the AASR... One can always hope!!


Keep your work True and Squre!

Stewart


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## BroBill (Sep 29, 2012)

MarkR said:


> Not so around here.  The York Rite bodies have been doing one-day "festivals" I think they call them.



We do both forms in Texas- full form, single-degree and Festival form.  Everyone has preferences and/or opinions as to which is "best"; for instance I prefer the single degree, long form. However there is a place and need for both forms and both serve York Rite Masonry in Texas very well.  

I would never endorse one form over the other as "best", but I would certainly say I personally prefer the single-degree, full-form when the candidates are able to schedule and be present at each degree. 

I did the Reunion form Scottish Rite degrees and by the time I drove home, all the degrees ran together in my mind. I freely admit that the cause could be "my mind", but I'm not sure how well I was educated in that forum.  I will admit however that it could be because of the difference between the Y.R. and S.R. I may have had a different take-away from a Y.R. Festival since the work is so close to the Blue Lodge degrees.  In the S.R. it's so different that I had no frame of reference and that may have accounted for why it "ran together" in my mind. 

That's all from the "for what it's worth" department.....


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## tomasball (Oct 3, 2012)

Let me insert a little perspective here.  The Scottish Rite has gone through a lot of changes in its long history. In the twentieth century, the requirement that you had to be either a 32nd degree mason or a Knight Templar to join the Shrine influenced the Rite's practices quite a bit.  A lot of men who had no interest in the Rite's teachings and philosophy were joining just so they could "get in on the fun" in the Shriners.  The Scottish Rite responded by making it easier to become a 32nd degree mason...abbreviated reunions became popular, and what had once taken an investment of considerable time, money, and mental effort was being conferred in a few hours.  Then the Shrine dropped its requirement, and suddenly the Scottish Rite was forced to deal with a new generation of masons who were coming to the Scottish Rite in smaller numbers, but with higher expectations. They were looking for MEANING in each of its degrees.  A process of dusting off the more sublime, intellectual aspects of the Scottish Rite began, initially with the formation of the Scottish Rite Research Society, and with the publication of many books that allowed members to glimpse the iceberg under the water's surface.  Now the leadership has made some fundamental decisions.  The Scottish Rite isn't for everyone.  We are going back to the full presentation of all degrees, in some cases over the course of months, and following it up by providing the members with a framework to study and understand the degrees after they have received them.  And that is going to cost money.  People need to understand that they aren't just buying a cap anymore...everyone is going to have the benefit of the full scope of the Scottish Rite experience.  If you don't think that's worth $500, then you're not who we're marketing to.


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## scialytic (Oct 3, 2012)

Did anybody establish whether it is $500 for the degrees, or each degree?


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## tomasball (Oct 3, 2012)

All the degrees, 4 through 32


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## scialytic (Oct 3, 2012)

That sounds far more reasonable. So $500 up front and then annual dues? About what do the dues run? (Rough average.) I'll look back in the thread, but when's the effective date?


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## Pscyclepath (Oct 4, 2012)

The Reunion fee typically covers the degrees, first year's due, and some swag like the 14th degree ring, cap, and a copy of "A Bridge to Light" or sometimes "Morals & Dogma."  And putting on two days' worth of ritual isn't cheap by itself.

We have the fall reunion for the Valley of Little Rock going on up here at the end of the month, with the current fee being $150.  I have not petitioned yet, as I'm still working to finish up my Commandery degrees the weekend after next and getting settled into the York Rite routine, and doing a lot of memory work for my (hopefully) lecturer's card as well as moving up to the Senior Deacon's chair in December.  I do plan to try out the Scottish Rite next year, once I works a little slack into my cable tow...   The Valley here in Little Rock is one of Albert Pike's old haunts, and I understand the reunions heer are awesome.  Looking forward to finding out...


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## Hndrx (Oct 4, 2012)

I was very disappointed that the Valley of Houston didn't give the copy of Morals and Dogma.  They ran out and gave a few of us a coupon for one.  Unfortunately, when I called to get them to mail my copy they said they wouldn't do that because the $4 or $5 for book rate shipment would cost too much. Personally, I don't think having to take off work to drive 4 hours round trip and spending more than $50 in gas money is cheap either.  I had hoped that they would be more helpful.  I don't know at this point when or if I'll get my copy.


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## Txmason (Oct 7, 2012)

@hndrx
Try getting one on line. Or from an antique dealer. Or buy one from amazon.com 

I submitted my petition to the Houston Valley. I hope I get accepted


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## Txmason (Oct 7, 2012)

@hndrk

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/192684243X/ref=mp_s_a_1?pi=SL75&qid=1349663947&sr=8-1


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## scialytic (Oct 7, 2012)

I got one published in 1928 on Amazon for about twenty bucks (maybe a little more, I can't remember). Good condition too. I know part of it is that it was expected, but that sounds like it won't be rectified. Sorry for that...


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## tomasball (Oct 8, 2012)

The version of M and D that's being distributed now is the Annotated Morals and Dogma, edited by Art DeHoyos.  Somewhat easier to read because of its internal organization and, even more wonderful, it shows the sources Pike was quoting.


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## scialytic (Oct 8, 2012)

I may be looking for that in a couple of years. Thanks Brother!


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## Michaelstedman81 (Oct 8, 2012)

So, just to go back and see if I can get an "official" number, what are the annual dues going to be? 

From what I am understanding, it is just the cost of going through the degrees that has gone up. Joining the Scottish Rite is going to become $500, does anyone know when this will go into effect? Once it does, how much will it be every year?


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## Hndrx (Oct 8, 2012)

Michaelstedman81 said:


> So, just to go back and see if I can get an "official" number, what are the annual dues going to be?
> 
> From what I am understanding, it is just the cost of going through the degrees that has gone up. Joining the Scottish Rite is going to become $500, does anyone know when this will go into effect? Once it does, how much will it be every year?




I found this:

http://www.houstonscottishrite.org/?p=1474


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## Hndrx (Oct 8, 2012)

Regarding my copy of Morals and Dogma that the SR owes me, I've decided to give them another call and see if I have better luck talking to someone else and if not I think I may get them to bring it to a stated meeting that I'll be able to attend in Nov or Dec.  I'm still a little aggravated with them but I've calmed down some.


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## Hndrx (Nov 25, 2012)

Hndrx said:


> Regarding my copy of Morals and Dogma that the SR owes me, I've decided to give them another call and see if I have better luck talking to someone else and if not I think I may get them to bring it to a stated meeting that I'll be able to attend in Nov or Dec.  I'm still a little aggravated with them but I've calmed down some.



I finally talked them into mailing it to me and I sent them a check for the amount of postage needed to mail it.


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## drapetomaniac (Nov 30, 2012)

Tony Uzzell said:


> I've found that, dues and price increases aside, most Masons will find the money (and the time, for that matter) to be active in those things that they find value in.



I agree.  One difference is this is an initiation fee for something a Brother has no experience with yet...


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## dfreybur (Apr 4, 2013)

tomasball said:


> ...and suddenly the Scottish Rite was forced to deal with a new generation of masons who were coming to the Scottish Rite in smaller numbers, but with higher expectations. They were looking for MEANING in each of its degrees.



This is happening in blue lodge as well.  It's amazing the interests some of the young fellows have.



> We are going back to the full presentation of all degrees, in some cases over the course of months



Is there a valley within 2-3 hours of San Antonio that does this?  I may well affiliate if there is.  I see no sign of it in the monthly bulletin I get from my valley in California.  We continue to do the same pattern of reunions lasting one or two weekends.



> and following it up by providing the members with a framework to study and understand the degrees after they have received them.



Is that the Master Builder program mentioned in this thread?  The SR degrees contain a ton of content.


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## chrmc (Apr 4, 2013)

dfreybur said:


> Is there a valley within 2-3 hours of San Antonio that does this?  I may well affiliate if there is.  I see no sign of it in the monthly bulletin I get from my valley in California.  We continue to do the same pattern of reunions lasting one or two weekends.



I know the Valley of Houston has a discussion group that meet at Holland lodge once a month where they discuss the degrees. Think they spend a session or more on each degree, and once they've been through all 32 of them, they start over.


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## Plustax (Apr 15, 2013)

My disappointment in the SR of Texas in the anount of dues that has drastically been increased. I moved my Blue Lodge membersip from GA to TX a few years ago since I now permanently live here (I was raised In GA while in Military). I now have a Endowed membership in my local Lodge. I also joined the Shrine here in Texas. I had also joined the Scottish Rite while stationed in Germany in 1988. This year the American Military Scottish Rite was dissolved and all it's members were transferred to the Washington DC SR body. We had a choice to remain there or transfer to another body. I checked in to transferring to the SR body in Dallas, Tx. I also asked what it would cost & was told it was something like 1000k + to transfer. I told the secy that I've been in SR for 25+ yrs and have only been paying $50 per year since 1988. He said things have changed and that was the new fee. Well.... I'vd decided to stay with the DC SR since their fee is no where near what TX charges. I believe TX SR is aboht to have a SERIOUS impact on membership. So.... I'm disappointed in SR of TX.... "Nuff Said"


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## Michael Neumann (Apr 16, 2013)

Hndrx said:


> I finally talked them into mailing it to me and I sent them a check for the amount of postage needed to mail it.


 Here is a free Kindle edition http://www.amazon.com/Ancient-Accep...tmm_kin_title_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1366087177&sr=1-1


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## chrmc (Apr 16, 2013)

Plustax said:


> My disappointment in the SR of Texas in the anount of dues that has drastically been increased. I moved my Blue Lodge membersip from GA to TX a few years ago since I now permanently live here (I was raised In GA while in Military). I now have a Endowed membership in my local Lodge. I also joined the Shrine here in Texas. I had also joined the Scottish Rite while stationed in Germany in 1988. This year the American Military Scottish Rite was dissolved and all it's members were transferred to the Washington DC SR body. We had a choice to remain there or transfer to another body. I checked in to transferring to the SR body in Dallas, Tx. I also asked what it would cost & was told it was something like 1000k + to transfer. I told the secy that I've been in SR for 25+ yrs and have only been paying $50 per year since 1988. He said things have changed and that was the new fee. Well.... I'vd decided to stay with the DC SR since their fee is no where near what TX charges. I believe TX SR is aboht to have a SERIOUS impact on membership. So.... I'm disappointed in SR of TX.... "Nuff Said"



I don't want to comment on whether or not 1,000 USD is high to move membership, but the fact that you expect the prices to remain the same since 1988 seems a little unrealistic to me. The fact of the matter is that inflation is going up, membership is going down and the temples aren't becoming any cheaper to maintain. Not saying that any masonic organization should skin their members to cover these costs, but if you're getting a good product, why not pay for it?


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## Mac (Apr 16, 2013)

chrmc said:


> ...but if you're getting a good product, why not pay for it?


I don't mean this with regard to the SR specifically (I love the SR, in fact), but rather Masonry in general:

If we're going to pay, there had better be a decent product.


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## Plustax (Apr 16, 2013)

I do understand about inflation & membership, but the flip side is that older members (not only in age, but long time members) don't have the same type of income as younger members. Fact is that none of this appears to matter only that more money is needed to maintain the same lifestyle of a masonic body (GL, SR, YR, Shrine). I don't know the solution only that new membership is costing more which may be OK as young new members make a higher salary as this is set acvording to these times. However that's for NEW membership, but what about those that are old members OR are reaching a FIXED income. How can they be expected to remain members? It's bad enough that seniors are having to make decisions between food, rent & medicine & now add to that rising membership dues? It's just going to be a difficult situation for many seniors some day. Again, I still understand about economic times changing, but I also see limited fixed income approaching for many. Also, it seems that times are not that hard for DC as their annual dues are $55 compared to those in Texas. I know... 2 different States, 2 different areas, etc.. I just still don't understand why a 25+ Yr member pays the same amount as a new incoming member. No matter... It is what it is. And the product has always been good and we are all paying fir it... just that some are paying more than others for the same, good product.



chrmc said:


> I don't want to comment on whether or not 1,000 USD is high to move membership, but the fact that you expect the prices to remain the same since 1988 seems a little unrealistic to me. The fact of the matter is that inflation is going up, membership is going down and the temples aren't becoming any cheaper to maintain. Not saying that any masonic organization should skin their members to cover these costs, but if you're getting a good product, why not pay for it?


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## MarkR (Apr 17, 2013)

It is absolutely untrue that younger members have more disposable wealth than older members.  In fact, demographics indicate that AS A GROUP, older men have more money than younger men.  Even after I retire in the next couple of years, I'll be better off financially than many of the younger men in my Lodge, who have less income and have children to take care of.  On top of which, my house is paid for, my cars are paid for, and I have no other significant debts.

My point is that a blanket rule of only raising dues on newer members, while exempting older ones, can be totally unfair and wrong.  Fifty five dollars a year is incredibly low.  That's barely over a dollar a week. We should be willing to pay more than we spend on coffee.


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## Plustax (Apr 17, 2013)

MarkR said:


> It is absolutely untrue that younger members have more disposable wealth than older members.  In fact, demographics indicate that AS A GROUP, older men have more money than younger men.  Even after I retire in the next couple of years, I'll be better off financially than many of the younger men in my Lodge, who have less income and have children to take care of.  On top of which, my house is paid for, my cars are paid for, and I have no other significant debts.
> 
> My point is that a blanket rule of only raising dues on newer members, while exempting older ones, can be totally unfair and wrong.  Fifty five dollars a year is incredibly low.  That's barely over a dollar a week. We should be willing to pay more than we spend on coffee.



  We can agree to disagree & that's OK. Just as there may be many that are "better off" as seniors, there are probably just as many not in that GROUP. I guess it all depends on what side of the fence one stands or the demographics where one resides. I just think that there are many that can't afford it (whether a dollar a week or 50 cents a week) and will soon have to make tough decisions.


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## crono782 (Apr 17, 2013)

New member does not always equate young member. I attended the Dallas reunion recently and there was a guy who appeared in his late 70's-80's. If someone is having to choose between food, rent, and medicine, I would think membership dues in a fraternity should be the least of their worries. I'm always told that my and my family's well being comes first before Masonry. I suppose a small decrease could be given in dues just as in some Valleys, new members under 30 have lower petition fees, but nothing drastic. You get what you pay for IMO, if you like it contribute to its well being. If someone twice my age is twice as active and pays half the dues, is that fair?


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## flaxgord (Apr 18, 2013)

All, I am in a lodge in the United Kingdom and our dues are considered low ( we pay Â£90.00 pa approx $140.00) most of us over here are willing to pay Â£5.00pw (Â£250.00 pa approx $380.00 pa). Maybe it's down to demographical and social trends and what you get in return. I was always under impression that the US lodges have very decorative/ornate lodges, which does you credit. I know we all are suffering in this austere time, but so is Freemasonry. Maybe there should be a national amount in the US of say $150.00, a national amount in the UK of Â£100.00 and so on.


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## seanbenjamin (Jun 7, 2013)

I'm glad I read this thread. It makes me feel fortunate because our valley dues are nowhere near that. That said, yours includes some nice gifts.  

Up here in the NMJ I enjoy the SR. Some of my close bros don't like it relative to YR. 

If I could get them to go back to some of the old degrees I'd certainly pay more. The 4th degree up here is like a timeshare pitch or a flight orientation. 


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## scialytic (Jun 7, 2013)

Texas is $500 for the conferring of the Degrees. That being said, I was able to receive ALL 29 Degrees during my Reunion. That is not the norm everywhere, but it is here. The Valley of Dallas confers the 4th - 32nd Degrees Spring and Fall; Terminal for Summer Reunion. For a full production theatre for all of that Light...way worth it! The main difference with Scottish Rite really comes down to the educational aspect. To say it is more scholarly than other Bodies would be unfair; but, I am finding way more to dig into than any other Body that I am in. 

The other fact is that YR and SR are very similar in most all aspects. The main differences are in delivery and numbers. Each Valley is VERY large compared to any other Body, bar the Shriners, from what I've seen. If all of the Chapters in the Dallas area you'd need some bigger numbers to pay for everything too. Both YR and SR operate on mainly dues, now-a-days. At one point there were hundreds of Candidates for Reunions and Festivals...it's just not that way anymore. 

The reality is: You either pay up front or throughout the year--nothings free. Any Brothers in Grotto want to chime in on that? From what I understand, you pay little up front, but to be an active member is pretty expensive. I'd say it's a wash between the two. 

Dues are going up everywhere. If they aren't going up in your Lodge and you aren't merging with others...you are either doing something right--or totally wrong! It depends on the situation, but we need larger Lodges, bigger events, and more elaborate functions. Keeping Brothers active and potential Candidates interested is going to take more than an empty Lodge in a ricketty building isn't going to cut it for the incoming generations.

Sucks to come in when the cost just gets raised...but it has to happen sometime--it needs to be happening more frquently--and all over.


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