# Entered Apprentice- Question



## Jeff Simpkins (Apr 8, 2018)

Hello Brothers,

What are your thoughts on how well we’ve been able to guard our secrets throughout the years? Especially in regards to the internet.

Thanks!


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## chrmc (Apr 8, 2018)

The internet may have made it a little easier for things to spread, but ever since the early 1700s there has been Masonic exposures telling the rituals, signs, secrets etc. So if that is the standard, then we haven't been very good. 
More or less any rite we have can be found out there, even the Swedish Rite, which is know for being pretty buttoned up. 

I do however also think it's one of the things we at times worry a little to much about. Truth be told I don't think the profane world to a large extend cares about what we do in our rituals most of the time. Of course doesn't mean that there shouldn't be the proper confidentiality, but it is as much a signal to how we treat the Craft and interact with each other, as it's a hope to not let the "secrets" out.


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## Roy_ (Apr 9, 2018)

It depends on what you call "the secrets". If you're talking about rituals, then I follow Chrmc. They've been available to the regular public since the beginning. That's not entirely true though. Sure, rituals have been available in print and on the web, but there are so many rituals that the chance that somebody would be able to find the current version of the rituals of a certain lodge is very small. Most available rituals are outdated and (like I said) only a small part actually _are_ available.

So perhaps "our secrets" is about saying who is Freemason. I think Masons are fairly good in not saying about living members who don't 'out' themselves are members. 

Or are "our secrets" our experiences of the rituals? I doubt that these could be exposed. Would you be able to tell a non-Mason what you experienced during your initiation?


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## CLewey44 (Apr 9, 2018)

Jeff Simpkins said:


> Hello Brothers,
> 
> What are your thoughts on how well we’ve been able to guard our secrets throughout the years? Especially in regards to the internet.
> 
> Thanks!



Terrible actually.  We can wordplay around all day about "what's a secret?", "what's not a secret?"..."Are there any secrets?" etc...at the end of the day, the cat's out of the bag and the info is accessible to anyone. It's one reason why there is less interest in Masonry. It has lost the intrigue and mystery it used to have. If someone wanted to know anything about it, they could find out in a bout 2 minutes.

I don't know if it was information released by ego-driven Masons seeking attention so they could have THE website that had all of this mysterious information by creating sites devoted to putting full rituals out there. It could also have been former Masons disgruntled or 'found _religion_ and saw the evil in Masonry'. The information getting out on the net was inevitable but Masons could use maybe better caution and some damage control.

I understand that books have been around for centuries on the subject but there is a big difference between finding an obscure book on ritual or 'secrets' of Masonry 100-200 years ago vs. going to Google.com now and having endless access to this data. Over the last 50 or so years, more and more books have been written on it and they are pretty accessible but the internet reaches a much larger audience. The 'Satanic Panic' of the 80s along with 100s of books over the last couple of decades have fed the lack of interest in the Craft I think. The internet just amplified it by about a million.


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## Rifleman1776 (Apr 9, 2018)

I've seen a few of those videos. Some are fairly accurate. Many are wildly inaccurate. The uninitiated won't know which is which. So, to an extent, our secrets remain such.


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## coachn (Apr 9, 2018)

Jeff Simpkins said:


> Hello Brothers,
> 
> What are your thoughts on how well we’ve been able to guard our secrets throughout the years? Especially in regards to the internet.
> 
> Thanks!


What Secrets?


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## Bro. Stewart P.M. (Apr 9, 2018)

We have secrets?


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## SørenSweR(I) (Apr 10, 2018)

Rifleman1776 said:


> I've seen a few of those videos. Some are fairly accurate. Many are wildly inaccurate. The uninitiated won't know which is which. So, to an extent, our secrets remain such.


^THIS

The conspiracy nuts have done us a service and themselves a disservice by flooding the web with all sorts of information, so you'd have to be a mason in order to know if the information you're examining is actually correct.



JamestheJust said:


> Some of the secrets are concealed in the ritual and in the furnishings.  For example the peculiar knocks and the arrangement of the pavement.



I can't say for other rites than the Swedish, but here nothing seems to be arbitrary or random. Even down to placement of trapdoors and brothers' coats-of-arms


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## coachn (Apr 10, 2018)

SørenSweR(I) said:


> ^THIS
> 
> The conspiracy nuts have done us a service and themselves a disservice by flooding the web with all sorts of information, so you'd have to be a mason in order to know if the information you're examining is actually correct.
> 
> ...


And not to mention the proper placement, coloring and size of the goat(s) of each degree.


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## Elexir (Apr 10, 2018)

SørenSweR(I) said:


> ^THIS
> 
> The conspiracy nuts have done us a service and themselves a disservice by flooding the web with all sorts of information, so you'd have to be a mason in order to know if the information you're examining is actually correct.
> 
> ...



Considering all the diffrent ritual revisions that happend before 1800s its no wonder. 
The CoA is a diffrent story, thankfully we have gotten stricter now , some older shields are awful


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## jgil1970 (Apr 10, 2018)

coachn said:


> What Secrets?



The secrets of Freemasonry are highly guarded pancake recipes.


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## dfreybur (Apr 11, 2018)

Bro. Stewart P.M. said:


> We have secrets?



Slight of hand.

We discuss the ritual as if it were secret even though it's been revealed to the public long ago.  Now it's a matter of integrity to limit discussion of the ritual more than is allowed by most jurisdictions, less than is unsaid in the obligations.  We rarely even teach what parts are supposed to be secret and what parts aren't because the ritual isn't the real secret.

Some of our secrets are the type that can be shouted from the rooftops but still remain secret because they are experiential.

The word occult means hidden.  I repeat the term slight of hand.


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## dfreybur (Apr 12, 2018)

JamestheJust said:


> Sleight of hand?



Thanks for the improved spelling.  Yes exactly.

Parlor magic is a modern science that finds and exploits flaws in human perception or human reason.  It's best advertised use is the parlor magic I use for its name but there are plenty of other uses.

The best known recent example of exploiting flaws in human perception is "the dress" that appears white and gold to some, black and blue to others.

One common strategy is distracting the attention so some act goes unnoticed.  This is standard in card tricks and in modern politics but it also applies in lodge.  We use our ritual to distract men from noticing the experiential nature of our other lessons.  Let's go practice ritual.  Let's not mention that while we do that we practice fellowship, learn teamwork, hone the mind through repetition.


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## CLewey44 (Apr 12, 2018)

dfreybur said:


> Thanks for the improved spelling.  Yes exactly.
> 
> Parlor magic is a modern science that finds and exploits flaws in human perception or human reason.  It's best advertised use is the parlor magic I use for its name but there are plenty of other uses.
> 
> ...



It's funny you mentioned the dress example. Our neighbors were over and we showed a pic of it and the neighbors saw it gold and white (or whatever it was) and my wife and I saw it differently. They didn't believe us and thought we were playing a joke. So, we got my 3 year old to look at it and asked "What color is that dress?" and he said "it's bwue and bwack."


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## Overworked724 (Apr 12, 2018)

Well...to chime in with my meager 2 cents as a Fellowcraft (planning on returning my catechism in the next couple of weeks).

My question:  Does it matter whether the 'secrets' of masonic ritual are on the I-net or published in a book?

Regardless of whether the information available to the general public is accurate or not...the key issue at stake is the integrity of the individual brother mason and strength of his oath.  His word is his bond to himself, his brethren, and his deity. The fact that a true brother will not forswear his oath brings with it an air of mystery (and frustration to conspiracy theorists and freemason haters) that the information you can scrounge up will never be openly confirmed or denied by any freemason.

So, I think the answer to the question is - the West Gate is well and truly guarded by true brethren of the fraternity, and always will be...since I believe the West Gate resides not in a lodge room, but in the heart of every brother.

(Hope that doesn't sound too poetic - but for me it rings true)


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## Keith C (Apr 12, 2018)

Overworked724 said:


> Regardless of whether the information available to the general public is accurate or not...the key issue at stake is the integrity of the individual brother mason and strength of his oath.
> 
> So, I think the answer to the question is - the West Gate is well and truly guarded by true brethren of the fraternity, and always will be...since I believe the West Gate resides not in a lodge room, but in the heart of every brother.



Well, in my opinion that is how it SHOULD be.  

However, since the information IS "out there" and has been since the mid 18th Century in some form or another, the West Gate was and is somewhat porous in SOME lodges, or the information would never have been shared.  It is a caution for us to more closely guard, but to state that it is and always will be closely guarded is obviously false.


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## Overworked724 (Apr 12, 2018)

Keith C said:


> Well, in my opinion that is how it SHOULD be.
> 
> However, since the information IS "out there" and has been since the mid 18th Century in some form or another, the West Gate was and is somewhat porous in SOME lodges, or the information would never have been shared.  It is a caution for us to more closely guard, but to state that it is and always will be closely guarded is obviously false.



I do agree with the above statement, Brother.  But to clarify, I did reference the West Gate being guarded by 'true brethren'.  Sadly, when a brother acts upon some inner decision to openly share specific secrets of the fraternity, I believe he is no longer a true a lawful brother.  In that sense, the best way to become more diligent is to continually reassess the process and care by which candidates are selected to receive the degrees of freemasonry.  No process (or person) is ever perfect.  Apologies for speaking above my head...but I am a true believer in taking a man at his word...unfortunately, there is no instrument to gauge the strength of a man's oath.  But I like to have faith!

On a lighter note...Go Cubs!


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## Keith C (Apr 12, 2018)

I think we have a difference of opinion of the meaning of "Guarding the West Gate."

For me, the "West Gate" is the portal to Freemasonry thorough which one passes to be made a Mason.  Guarding said gate is the responsibility of each individual lodge.  Guarding the Gate means to not admit anyone who is not a "Good Man" who will keep and perform that which is laid out in the obligations of the various degrees.  If someone is made a Mason by a lodge and then does not abide by their oath and obligation, then the Lodge did a poor job in discerning this individual's character and fitness to be made a Mason.

Again, for me, "Guarding the West Gate" is not an internal mental or emotional inclination to keep and maintain a solemn oath one has sworn.  That is simply good character and a man keeping his word.  "Guarding the West Gate" is not something a man does for himself, but rather something a lodge must do to keep out those who should not be made masons.


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## coachn (Apr 12, 2018)

Overworked724 said:


> Well...to chime in with my meager 2 cents as a Fellowcraft (planning on returning my catechism in the next couple of weeks).
> 
> My question:  *Does it matter whether the 'secrets' of masonic ritual are on the I-net or published in a book?*
> 
> ...


It matters not. 

Here's the background on all these secrets.:

Giving a secret to a candidate and obligating him to keep it is a Trojan Horse Activity and a manhood developing burden.  To follow through on his obligation, that candidate must develop every single last one of the theological and cardinal virtues to keep that secret secure.  Think about the discipline a candidate must cultivate to keep a secret and you'll cover every last one of those virtues.  Sheer and Absolute Genius!


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## Overworked724 (Apr 12, 2018)

coachn said:


> It matters not.
> 
> Here's the background on all these secrets.:
> 
> Giving a secret to a candidate and obligating him to keep it is a Trojan Horse Activity and a manhood developing burden.  To follow through on his obligation, that candidate must develop every single last one of the theological and cardinal virtues to keep that secret secure.  Think about the discipline a candidate must cultivate to keep a secret and you'll cover every last one of those virtues.  Sheer and Absolute Genius!



And thus making good men better...love the 'Trojan Horse' analogy.


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## coachn (Apr 12, 2018)

Overworked724 said:


> And thus making good men better...love the 'Trojan Horse' analogy.


Delighted to hear this.  I've contemplated the role of keeping secrets from day one and found that this one analogy hits home the best.  We all know why we keep secrets.  The method of developing manly virtues is rarely provided though, and neither is the subversive manner to which men are brought into manhood by one man saying to another, "here kid, hold this and don't give it away to the wrong people."  BRUTALLY INGENIUS!


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## dfreybur (Apr 13, 2018)

Keith C said:


> I think we have a difference of opinion of the meaning of "Guarding the West Gate."



One of the best topics to disagree on to me!  There is strength in unity - We treat each other as kin.  There is strength in diversity - We should and do disagree on this topic and on many other topics.


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## Warrior1256 (Apr 13, 2018)

Rifleman1776 said:


> I've seen a few of those videos. Some are fairly accurate. Many are wildly inaccurate. The uninitiated won't know which is which. So, to an extent, our secrets remain such.


Exactly! I haven't seen one yet that gets it right in all regards.


coachn said:


> And not to mention the proper placement, coloring and size of the goat(s) of each degree.


****snicker snicker****


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## frehm (Apr 21, 2018)

Even if rituals might have leaked out, the true masonry cannot be revealed. Because the true freemasonry has to be experienced. You can read as much text as you want (even if I wouldn't recommend it since it ruins quite a bit), but the true and real experience is actually your own personal experience of the ritual. Which cannot be described in a ritual text.


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## Warrior1256 (Apr 21, 2018)

frehm said:


> Because the true freemasonry has to be experienced. You can read as much text as you want (even if I wouldn't recommend it since it ruins quite a bit), but the true and real experience is actually your own personal experience of the ritual. Which cannot be described in a ritual text.


Very good point!


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## Jeff Adair (Apr 30, 2018)

Something that I've told all of our new candidates... Don't watch any History channel show or search anything on the web about the secrets of the Craft until after you're a Master Mason.  Brothers, sadly all of our secrets are out there but for every truth there are 10 lies.  Our young candidates don't entirely know truth from falsehood and it will more than likely mislead them.    I've been a Master Mason for over 5 years and now sit in the West, I watch some of these History Channel shows and laugh at just how far fetched they are.  I also cringe at some of the things they get VERY close.


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## Warrior1256 (May 1, 2018)

Jeff Adair said:


> I watch some of these History Channel shows and laugh at just how far fetched they are. I also cringe at some of the things they get VERY close.


Same here!


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## acjohnson53 (May 21, 2018)

The more you read, you still need to understand what you are reading. That’s why they give so much to read, not to confuse you...


Sent from my iPhone using My Freemasonry mobile app


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## Paul Borrott (Dec 3, 2018)

From the perspective of a yet to be accepted "non Mason" it is interesting to see rifleman1776 state that unless you are a mason you won't know what is correct and what isn't. I have attempted to do a little research to find out a little before being admitted. And decided to just wait and get the correct information from the correct source. As I wouldn't want to spend hours of time learning the wrong things. One of the brothers that belongs to the lodge I am hoping to,join suggested that I get the information from them rather than hoping to,get it right from other sources.

I hope to,be voted on tomorrow, and start my journey soon.


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## Warrior1256 (Dec 4, 2018)

Paul Borrott said:


> I hope to,be voted on tomorrow, and start my journey soon.


Congratulations!


Paul Borrott said:


> I have attempted to do a little research to find out a little before being admitted. And decided to just wait and get the correct information from the correct source. As I wouldn't want to spend hours of time learning the wrong things.


Very good decision!


Paul Borrott said:


> One of the brothers that belongs to the lodge I am hoping to,join suggested that I get the information from them rather than hoping to,get it right from other sources.


Very wise council.


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