# I have received 6 Blackballs



## Randy See (Mar 8, 2018)

I have received 6 Blackballs
The reason for my blackballing is because someone from the other lodge has complained about me.

What can I do to join again? 
Do I have to ask permission from the lodge I was blackballed in that i would be joining another lodge?
Thank you


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## Warrior1256 (Mar 8, 2018)

These questions depend on what jurisdiction that you are in. Contact the Grand Lodge over your area and ask them.


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## Bloke (Mar 8, 2018)

Randy See said:


> I have received 6 Blackballs
> The reason for my blackballing is because someone from the other lodge has complained about me.
> 
> What can I do to join again?
> ...


How do you know how many black balls were received ?


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## dfreybur (Mar 8, 2018)

Bloke said:


> How do you know how many black balls were received ?



Be sure that the answer is written taking into account that it is forbidden to tell or ask your vote and that the report is never other than positive or negative.

Thus the only possible way is to petition 6 times.  If I'd been turned down I would have been sad for a week then I would have joined the Elks.


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## CLewey44 (Mar 8, 2018)

Yeah, it sounds like it's just not going to happen with this lodge. You could try others or other groups, as Bro. Doug said, the Elks, Lions something like that. Would you like to share why it is they are voting nay on you?

-I edited my piss poor grammar there lol.-


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## Warrior1256 (Mar 8, 2018)

Bloke said:


> How do you know how many black balls were received ?





dfreybur said:


> Be sure that the answer is written taking into account that it is forbidden to tell or ask your vote and that the report is never other than positive or negative.


This one slid right by me.


CLewey44 said:


> Yeah, it sounds like it's just not going to happen with this lodge.


Agreed.


CLewey44 said:


> Would you like to share why it is they are voting you nay on you?


I would be interested in this answer also.


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## jgil1970 (Mar 10, 2018)

Here in TX, upon an unfavorable ballot, the WM says how many years the person is barred from joining. 3 Black Balls is one year, 4 is 2, etc. If this person was told how long they are barred for, it could be an easy deduction to figure out how many black balls they received.


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## Warrior1256 (Mar 11, 2018)

jgil1970 said:


> Here in TX, upon an unfavorable ballot, the WM says how many years the person is barred from joining. 3 Black Balls is one year, 4 is 2, etc. If this person was told how long they are barred for, it could be an easy deduction to figure out how many black balls they received.


Ah, o.k. Didn't know this. Here in Kentucky you must wait 12 months to re-petition if a ballot to elect to membership is negative regardless of the number of black cubes.


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## Bloke (Mar 11, 2018)

Warrior1256 said:


> Ah, o.k. Didn't know this. Here in Kentucky you must wait 12 months to re-petition if a ballot to elect to membership is negative regardless of the number of black cubes.


The number of black balls is not disclosed, it is a simple yes or no. I've never seen anyone back balled, but have seen applications withdrawn in the expectation they would not be succesful. I had to look the (UGLV) rule up, not knowing it, but here it is

_226.
The Master of every Lodge in which a candidate has been withdrawn, blackballed, or not balloted for within a period of six months from the date of his being proposed shall immediately report the fact to the Grand Secretary, who shall place the matter on file. No candidate for initiation who has been blackballed in any Lodge shall be proposed for initiation or joining in the same or any other Lodge within a period of six months from such rejection. A Lodge may, however, resolve that a further period shall elapse before any rejected candidate can again be proposed in that Lodge_.

I would check a withdrawal out, but I seen it happen several times simply because a candidate moved or got a new job and the lodge he was petitioning no longer suited him. A negative vote is another matter, I'd be spending a lot of time on that to fully understand the circumstances... and would be expecting to have official GL correspondence on the matter before the application appeared on the summons, much less being voted on.

Randy has not come back, but Warrior's initial response and advice is probably the best - all the rest is chat between us comparing differences..


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## jermy Bell (Mar 11, 2018)

My question is why so many black balls ? Or should I ask why the rejection.


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## MarkR (Mar 12, 2018)

Did he get blackballed six different times, or get six black balls in one balloting?


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## Bloke (Mar 12, 2018)

MarkR said:


> Did he get blackballed six different times, or get six black balls in one balloting?



"the" lodge makes it sound like one, but its still worth asking your question


Randy See said:


> ...Do I have to ask permission from the lodge I was blackballed...


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## dfreybur (Mar 12, 2018)

jermy Bell said:


> My question is why so many black balls ? Or should I ask why the rejection.



It's obviously made up.  The reason for the rejection is the application was fictional.  As such the person is unqualified for membership due to not being of sound mind.  A troll.


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## rpbrown (Mar 12, 2018)

dfreybur said:


> It's obviously made up.  The reason for the rejection is the application was fictional.  As such the person is unqualified for membership due to not being of sound mind.  A troll.



I have to agree. He hasn't been on the forum since posting his question and appears to have been his only post.


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## Warrior1256 (Mar 12, 2018)

dfreybur said:


> It's obviously made up. The reason for the rejection is the application was fictional. As such the person is unqualified for membership due to not being of sound mind. A troll.





rpbrown said:


> I have to agree. He hasn't been on the forum since posting his question and appears to have been his only post.


Agreed.


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## BullDozer Harrell (Mar 15, 2018)

dfreybur said:


> It's obviously made up.  The reason for the rejection is the application was fictional.  As such the person is unqualified for membership due to not being of sound mind.  A troll.


You hit it right on the head of possibilities. He has too much information about a private ballot which he wasn't supposed to have known any particulars about how many votes were cast unfavorably.

Sent from my SM-T377P using My Freemasonry mobile app


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## okielabrat (Aug 6, 2018)

Whatever the circumstances, it looks like he earned every single one of those blackballs. There has to be something in his background that the lodge to which he petitioned didn't like, or it could have been how he conducted himself when the screening committee interviewed him. And quoting the number of blackballs........as the others have said, how would he have known, unless he's just spouting off something off the top of his head?

Oh well, moving on............


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## Randy See (Aug 6, 2018)

Sorry I've been busy with work . 
I got blackballed 6 times in a single ballot by a certain lodge to clarify the queries . The reason why I know is because my friends inside the lodge told me . Whether it be true or not . They were the one who told me that 6 masters blackballed me . I did not ask why nor did I ask who . But the reason for me being blackballed is because someone from a different lodge complained that I was his gfs ex .


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## Thomas Stright (Aug 6, 2018)

Randy See said:


> The reason why I know is because my friends inside the lodge told me . Whether it be true or not . They were the one who told me that 6 masters blackballed me .



Unless your "friends" are the JW, SW or WM, there is absolutely no way they know. As those 3 are the only ones that check the ballot box.
Any any that would disclose the number of blackballs do not deserve to sit in their respective chairs.


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## Randy See (Aug 6, 2018)

They are the junior Warden and worshipful master.
They told me I was blackballed 6 times and that I am not welcome anymore to join their fellowship dinners


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## Warrior1256 (Aug 6, 2018)

Thomas Stright said:


> Unless your "friends" are the JW, SW or WM, there is absolutely no way they know. As those 3 are the only ones that check the ballot box.
> Any any that would disclose the number of blackballs do not deserve to sit in their respective chairs.


Spot on!


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## rpbrown (Aug 6, 2018)

Thomas Stright said:


> Unless your "friends" are the JW, SW or WM, there is absolutely no way they know. As those 3 are the only ones that check the ballot box.
> Any any that would disclose the number of blackballs do not deserve to sit in their respective chairs.



Even at that, they wouldn't know who blackballed him. Its a secret ballot.


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## Thomas Stright (Aug 6, 2018)

rpbrown said:


> Even at that, they wouldn't know who blackballed him. Its a secret ballot.



True.... OP should seek out another lodge.


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## MarkR (Aug 7, 2018)

In Minnesota, anyone (much less a principal officer of the lodge) discussing the results of a ballot would be subject to expulsion.


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## okielabrat (Aug 7, 2018)

Something just doesn't seem right here..........................


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## Warrior1256 (Aug 7, 2018)

MarkR said:


> In Minnesota, anyone (much less a principle officer of the lodge) discussing the results of a ballot would be subject to expulsion.


Same here in Kentucky.


okielabrat said:


> Something just doesn't seem right here..........................


Agreed!


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## okielabrat (Aug 7, 2018)

Warrior1256 said:


> Agreed!



Which is why I will say no more on this thread. Some things are best left alone.


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## CLewey44 (Aug 7, 2018)

Sounded like a birth defect initially....


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## Rifleman1776 (Aug 7, 2018)

Still smells fishy to me. Members are supposed to vote for the good of Masonry. If you were blackballed it means someone, or six, did not think you would be a good Mason or good for the fraternity. Personally, I suggest you move on and find another outlet for your free time. Good luck.


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## Warrior1256 (Aug 7, 2018)

Rifleman1776 said:


> If you were blackballed it means someone, or six, did not think you would be a good Mason or good for the fraternity. Personally, I suggest you move on and find another outlet for your free time.


Agreed.


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## The Traveling Man (Dec 25, 2018)

Randy See said:


> I have received 6 Blackballs
> The reason for my blackballing is because someone from the other lodge has complained about me.
> 
> What can I do to join again?
> ...



6 black cubes? That is a significant number, and not one that I've seen before. It'd be tough for me to even consider joining the Lodge. Knowing that 6 members don't think I am a good fit, in a Lodge which promotes Brotherly Love, would be enough for me to seek membership elsewhere. Rules vary by Jurisdiction, and by Lodge, with regards to what you can do next. In some Jurisdictions you cannot repetition that Lodge for 30 days to 6 months. In other Jurisdictions you can't petition any Lodge in that Jurisdiction for a certain period of time. I notice, after I started typing this comment, that this post is about 9 months old, so I am curious how you ended up handling this situation.


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## coachn (Dec 25, 2018)

> I have received 6 Blackballs


WOW!  I only received two and they were white.  Still got 'em too.


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## David612 (Dec 26, 2018)

coachn said:


> WOW!  I only received two and they were white.  Still got 'em too.


This is a question a brother didn’t ask-


But hey free knowledge isn’t anything to sneeze at I guess.


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## coachn (Dec 26, 2018)

David612 said:


> This is a question a brother didn’t ask-
> 
> 
> But hey free knowledge isn’t anything to sneeze at I guess.


Or turn your head and cough at either


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## Warrior1256 (Dec 26, 2018)

coachn said:


> Or turn your head and cough at either


Lol!


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## jermy Bell (Jan 10, 2019)

Did they run out of white balls ?


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## coachn (Jan 11, 2019)

jermy Bell said:


> Did they run out of white balls ?


Not if they're real men...


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## Warrior1256 (Jan 11, 2019)

jermy Bell said:


> Did they run out of white balls ?





coachn said:


> Not if they're real men...


LOL!!!!!


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## Rifleman1776 (Jan 11, 2019)

Practices vary with jurisdiction and lodge. But, I agree, there is no legitimate way the petitioner would know how many black balls or cubes were dropped. In my former lodge the master would simply say "cloudy" for one ball or "dark" for more than one. But just one was enough to reject.


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## Warrior1256 (Jan 11, 2019)

Rifleman1776 said:


> Practices vary with jurisdiction and lodge. But, I agree, there is no legitimate way the petitioner would know how many black balls or cubes were dropped. In my former lodge the master would simply say "cloudy" for one ball or "dark" for more than one. But just one was enough to reject.


In my jurisdiction we know if there was only one black cube or more than one black cube. If there is only one black cube a second ballot must be taken to insure that the black cube was not a mistake. If there is more than one black cube there is no second ballot. However, we can not know how many more than two black cubes there are.


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## CLewey44 (Jan 11, 2019)

Warrior1256 said:


> In my jurisdiction we know if there was only one black cube or more than one black cube. If there is only one black cube a second ballot must be taken to insure that the black cube was not a mistake. If there is more than one black cube there is no second ballot. However, we can not know how many more than two black cubes there are.


That really makes the most sense.


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## Bill Lins (Jan 11, 2019)

Under GLoTX, it takes 3 blackballs to reject but the WM will announce the ballot as being "Unfavorable" and state that the petitioner is rejected for one, two, or three years. This tells us that the ballot contained 3 (1 year), 4 (2 years), or 5 or more (3 years) blackballs.


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## David612 (Jan 11, 2019)

6, 6 balls ah ah ahh

That’s a lot of blackballs!


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## Number4 (Dec 22, 2019)

Warrior1256 said:


> In my jurisdiction we know if there was only one black cube or more than one black cube. If there is only one black cube a second ballot must be taken to insure that the black cube was not a mistake. If there is more than one black cube there is no second ballot. However, we can not know how many more than two black cubes there are.



Same here in Virginia.


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## Randy See (Oct 3, 2022)

sorry , i was not able to reply because of my busy schedule
anyway
i am no troll, nor is this fictional
I will tell you my story since that is what you clamor for.

The reason of my blackballing is because I had a past lover who was also a lover of a mason from a province. that mason has a lodge under their name. since they are a  very powerful and rich clan in their province . I have spent 3 years of my life knocking in that lodge. being their servant and what not. but because of the relationship I had with this girl. my application to become a mason has been blocked. my cousin and friends who was also in that lodge that I was applying to could not do anything , the worshipful master was also a good friend of my rival. I was told I was blackballed 6 times. it has been more than 4 years. it is sad . but life goes on. I have sent my apologies to the ones who complained about me. but it fell on deaf ears. you see people in the provinces in the philippines are very arrogant , especially if they come from war chiefs and war lords. They are Gods in their lands.

Masonry in the United states may be for brotherly love and everything good that all of you have mentioned.
But here in the philippines it is different. I was actually idealistic and my views about it was the same as all of you.
but after experiencing it first hand,  I can say that it is the opposite here in the philippines
some or all of you might call me unworthy to join your craft . 

during the 3 years of knocking in that lodge, I served them well. I did everything they asked me to, I lied to their wives when they were off whore mongering 
and alot more, some in criminal by nature. Its just sad that since someone else from a distant lodge told my lodge that i was not good. they blackballed me because of
the status of that family. You see they are very influential in that province
the uncle is congressman, the wives are mayors and vice mayors, their sons are councilors.

Bless everyone here and i hope to join you someday , in this life or the next


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## coachn (Oct 4, 2022)

Randy See said:


> ... I was told I was blackballed 6 times....


You're better off.  Any lodge that allows information out like this is not a lodge worthy of membership.

That being said...


Randy See said:


> I lied to their wives...


Freemasonry is better off not having another immoral member.


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## Randy See (Oct 6, 2022)

have you not been immoral in ANY part of your life


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## coachn (Oct 6, 2022)

Randy See said:


> have you not been immoral in ANY part of your life


You're the one who's complaining about being blackballed, justifying lying as your worthiness to join,and selling your soul to join a group of criminals and whoremongers.


*RANDY SEE: The reason of my blackballing is...
1) ... because I had a past lover who was also a lover of a mason from a province.
2) I did everything they asked me to, I lied to their wives when they were off whore mongering 
and alot more, some in criminal by nature.*​


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## Randy See (Oct 7, 2022)

I guess you didnt read my whole posts
arent masons supposed to make a person better?
i didnt justify anything
i merely stated facts


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## coachn (Oct 7, 2022)

Randy See said:


> I guess you didnt read my whole posts


You have guessed wrongly.  I read your posts in their entirety quite a few times so as to assure I was not reading anything into them.  After that, I merely focused upon your behavior.  That was enough.


Randy See said:


> arent masons supposed to make a person better?


No. We take "GOOD" men and _*provide to them a path*_ that they can take_* to make themselves better. *_* 

We cannot take "BAD" men and reform them.  A man who willingly sells his soul to join an admittedly corrupt Lodge, speaks volumes about his morality.*


Randy See said:


> i didnt justify anything


When you cannot see what you are doing, *no manner of reflection will ever bring sight to your eyes.*


Randy See said:


> i merely stated facts


Yes.  And your stated facts reflect who you are.  I merely reflected who you are back to you.  If you do not like your reflection, that's on you.


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## usar123 (Oct 16, 2022)

I agree I would look at other fraternal Organizations!


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## Winter (Oct 19, 2022)

Here is a related question. Does anyone here actually use black balls in their ballot? I've only ever seen cubes.


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## Thomas Stright (Oct 19, 2022)

Winter said:


> Here is a related question. Does anyone here actually use black balls in their ballot? I've only ever seen cubes.



We have both.


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## Keith C (Oct 19, 2022)

Winter said:


> Here is a related question. Does anyone here actually use black balls in their ballot? I've only ever seen cubes.



You will likely not ne surprised that PA uses Black Balls.


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## Winter (Oct 19, 2022)

Thomas Stright said:


> We have both.


You have both black balls and black cubes in your ballots? That must be confusing. 


Keith C said:


> You will likely not ne surprised that PA uses Black Balls.


You're correct. If anyone was going to be different, it would be our esteemed Brothers from the GLofPA!


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## Thomas Stright (Oct 19, 2022)

Winter said:


> You have both black balls and black cubes in your ballots? That must be confusing.


The cubes are what our blind member would select to cast a blackball.


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## Winter (Oct 19, 2022)

Thomas Stright said:


> The cubes are what our blind member would select to cast a blackball.


That's interesting.  The way the ballot boxes are constructed in all the Lodges I have sat in, we are all blind.


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## MarkR (Oct 20, 2022)

We have a few ballot boxes.  Some have black and white balls, some have white balls and black cubes.  We can see into all of them to see what we're picking; we just can't see into the chamber that they to into when we vote.


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## Winter (Oct 20, 2022)

MarkR said:


> We have a few ballot boxes.  Some have black and white balls, some have white balls and black cubes.  We can see into all of them to see what we're picking; we just can't see into the chamber that they to into when we vote.


Ours you can't see your hand.  You feel the shape you want and drop it into the drawer at the back.  The more things are the same in Freemasonry, the more they're different!


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## MarkR (Oct 21, 2022)

Ours are like this one.  The balls/cubes are in the front box, you pick the one you want and drop it into the little chute.  After everyone has voted, the Senior Deacon closes the front box, goes to the Wardens and Master to show them the contents of the back box.


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## Winter (Oct 21, 2022)

Ours is like this.  You put your hand in and select the shape you want.  It is always interesting seeing the small variations in jurisdictions.


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## JanneProeliator (Oct 24, 2022)

Thomas Stright said:


> The cubes are what our blind member would select to cast a blackball.


What if they accidentally take out black ball instead of white one?


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## Thomas Stright (Oct 24, 2022)

JanneProeliator said:


> What if they accidentally take out black ball instead of white one?


We have both white ceramic balls and white rubber balls.


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## JanneProeliator (Oct 24, 2022)

Thomas Stright said:


> We have both white ceramic balls and white rubber balls.


Okay.

So if there is black cubes and black balls and white rubber balls and white rubber balls in the ballot then how does the blind brother know how he votes?


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## Thomas Stright (Oct 24, 2022)

JanneProeliator said:


> Okay.
> 
> So if there is black cubes and black balls and white rubber balls and white rubber balls in the ballot then how does the blind brother know how he votes?


For him a cube rejects and a rubber ball elects.
He would not pick a ceramic ball.


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## Winter (Oct 24, 2022)

Thomas Stright said:


> For him a cube rejects and a rubber ball elects.
> He would not pick a ceramic ball.


Still don't understand why you would need a ceramic ball and rubber ball in the ballot box. Wouldn't the shape of a sphere feel the same for someone who is visually impared, regardless of material?


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## Thomas Stright (Oct 24, 2022)

Winter said:


> Still don't understand why you would need a ceramic ball and rubber ball in the ballot box. Wouldn't the shape of a sphere feel the same for someone who is visually impared, regardless of material?


So rubber feels like ceramic?

I don't understand what's so hard to understand.

Do you need a photo?


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## coachn (Oct 24, 2022)

...ceramic and rubber neither feel nor behave the same.


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## Winter (Oct 24, 2022)

Thomas Stright said:


> So rubber feels like ceramic?
> 
> I don't understand what's so hard to understand.
> 
> Do you need a photo?


The part that is difficult to understand is that a sphere does not feel like a cube. It doesn't matter what they're made of. If a person can't see them, wouldn't the difference in shape be enough for them to cast their ballot correctly? I'm obviously missing something here.


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## Thomas Stright (Oct 25, 2022)

Winter said:


> The part that is difficult to understand is that a sphere does not feel like a cube. It doesn't matter what they're made of. If a person can't see them, wouldn't the difference in shape be enough for them to cast their ballot correctly? I'm obviously missing something here.


I didn't create the system, just explaining what we use.


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## Keith C (Oct 25, 2022)

MarkR said:


> Ours are like this one.  The balls/cubes are in the front box, you pick the one you want and drop it into the little chute.  After everyone has voted, the Senior Deacon closes the front box, goes to the Wardens and Master to show them the contents of the back box.
> View attachment 6978




Ours look just like this.  But only balls, black and white.  Same procedure as outlined above.


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## JanneProeliator (Oct 26, 2022)

Thomas Stright said:


> For him a cube rejects and a rubber ball elects.
> He would not pick a ceramic ball.


OK. Got it. Thanks.


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## coachn (Oct 26, 2022)




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## Bloke (Oct 31, 2022)

Winter said:


> Here is a related question. Does anyone here actually use black balls in their ballot? I've only ever seen cubes.


Yes. We use black and white spheres and not cubes. Indeed, I have never seen cubes in Victoria Australia -but am sure they are out there somewhere. Our Constitution actually speaks of "black balls" 

_225. No person can be made a Freemason if, on the ballot, three black balls appear against him, though a Lodge may resolve that two black balls shall be sufficient to exclude a candidate. It is permissible for two or more candidates to be balloted for together, but if, on examination of the ballot, the number of black balls required for exclusion is found, the Master shall declare that ballot void and shall proceed to conduct a separate ballot for each person._


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