# Study on the present conditions of Freemasonry in the world.



## vinceatwork (Dec 13, 2015)

I am searching for information for a *Study about the present conditions of Freemasonry in the world, *which I have undertaken. I already have the answers for Pennsylvania, Montana, New Brunswick, Cuba, Germany, and Italy.

Masonic Protocol does not permit me to contact Grand Lodges directly, and since such information is rarely or not at all available on the internet, I wonder whether any of you can answer a list of questions  I have prepared for this study as pertaining to any Masonic Jurisdiction in any part of the world.  Here is the List:


The purpose of this research is to form a snapshot of the* Present Conditions of Masonry in the world*,as compared to the past, and draw from it lessons that may help us Masons work to address present issues, recognize successes or failures, and find solutions for the better future of our Craft.  The sources of the information I may receive will remain completely confidential, and under no circumstance I shall disclose it. At the conclusion of this study I will disclose my findings, but not the sources, to all those who have contributed, and they will be free to use this information as they deem it proper.

Questions:

1.  Total number of members in your Grand Jurisdiction - Are the numbers up or down? (As compared to 10 years ago)

2.  On the whole, do you feel the lodges in your jurisdiction are prospering or declining?

3.  What are the causes of this prosperity, or decline?

4.  Which segments of the population/professions constitute the membership in your area?

5.  What is the average age now found among the members? Is the age average now changed (up or down) as compared to the past?

6.  What is the average membership size of yourLodges?


7.  What percentage of the membership is usually present at the lodge meetings?

8.  How often do members meet, in lodge or socially, each month?

9.  Do your lodges meet in the summer months?

10.  With the exception of members who can not attend the meetings, due to illness or distance, what remedies or sanctions are enforced against the defaulting members (e.g. complaint, summons to appear and to justify their absence, expulsion or other ....); how common are these cases?

11.  Are the temple’s building generally the property of the lodge, co-owned with other lodges, or rented from others (commercial enterprise)?

12.  Are the membership fees sufficient to pay for the maintenance of the Temple, or are some of the Temple facilities rented to the public, to balance income and expenses?

13.  What is the average cost of admission (Initiation), and the annual fees (proportionally to the the average daily earning from employment in your country)? Are there additional fees charged for each degree?

14.  What are the most common reasons today in your Grand Jurisdiction that entice a petitioner to join a Lodge?

15.  Must the Petitioner be known to one or more members of the Lodge?

16.  What investigations about the Applicant for membership are conducted by the lodge after receiving an application for membership – how thorough are these investigations?

17.  Is it usual for an Applicant to be rejected - What are usually the reasons for rejection?

18.  How does an Apprentice qualify for the next level; and the Fellow-craft for the Master's degree? How long does it take for these qualification as a rule?

19.  Is a Candidate required to present in lodge one or more Papers (Lectures) to qualify for the next level?

20.  Are apprentices permitted to speak in Lodge?

21.  Is the belief in a “Creator” an indispensable condition for the admission of an applicant?

22.  Are any believers of other (not mainstream) faiths excluded from membership?

23.  Is the belief that the Scriptures (of any religion) constitute the will of God - a determining factor for the approval of an applicant?

24.*  Universality*. - for example: Would a just, righteous and reputable North American Indian (true believer in its traditional spirituality) be admitted in a lodge of your Grand Jurisdiction? - such an Indian having no Bible or equivalent Holy Scriptures, but his spirituality and his faithfulness is represented by the Eagle Feather, holding which he swears and feels bound by it. You will find the reasons for this strange question here: http://www.freemasonryresearchforumqsa.com/the-eagle-feather.php

25.  Besides the Bible, what other holy writings are permitted to be displayed on the altar of the Lodges in your Grand Jurisdiction?

26.  Except for the conferral of degrees (Rituals), what other activities are usually undertaken by the lodge?

27. What public activities for the benefit of the community do the lodges carry on?

28.  What is the perception of Freemasonry by the general public in your area? (City, State, Province or Country)

29.  Does the assertion: “Masonry is not only the most ancient, but the *most moral human institution* that ever existed” still sounds true to your members?

30.  Does this assertion sound true to the general (profane) public in your area?

31.  Is any activity of the lodge made public in the media?

32.  Do lodges advertise in their website or in the media, to entice new candidates to join the lodge? (To join Freemasonry.)

33.  After a Brother has completed his term as Master of the Lodge, does he keep his W. Bro. title, or is addressed simply as Brother?

34.  How common is the resignation of a brother? What are usually the reasons for resigning?

35.  Is there any other information about the present practice of Masonry in your Grand Jurisdiction that would render this study more complete and useful?

= = = = = = = =

For further information on this Study, feel free to contact me: Bro. Vincent Lombardo – P.M. Quinte St. Alban’s Lodge No. 620 G.R.C., Thornhill, Ontario, Canada, +1 905 - 731-0504 vince.lombardo.to@gmail.com


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## Bloke (Dec 13, 2015)

Hi Brother

I think a lot of these questions would be best answered by a Grand Secretariat. Members are likely to supply guesses rather than facts.

That said, I will answer what I can:


1. Total number of members in your Grand Jurisdiction - Are the numbers up or down? (As compared to 10 years ago)

About 12K and it is down from about 14K

2. On the whole, do you feel the lodges in your jurisdiction are prospering or declining?

Mixed. Many warrants have been handed in, all lodges I am involved in are prospering with one exception.

3. What are the causes of this prosperity, or decline?

Prosperity - vibrant membership supported by occasional social
Decline - failure to attract members and exhaustion of the leaders

4. Which segments of the population/professions constitute the membership in your area?

Mixed. Male LOL.


9. Do your lodges meet in the summer months?

Our lodges do no go dark and meet 11 times a year skipping Jan or Dec according to when they meet in the month.

10. With the exception of members who can not attend the meetings, due to illness or distance, what remedies or sanctions are enforced against the defaulting members (e.g. complaint, summons to appear and to justify their absence, expulsion or other ....); how common are these cases?

Default, as in dues ? (The question could be clearer). Automatic exclusion after 3 years non-payment.

11. Are the temple’s building generally the property of the lodge, co-owned with other lodges, or rented from others (commercial enterprise)?

Co-owned, often not rented.

12. Are the membership fees sufficient to pay for the maintenance of the Temple, or are some of the Temple facilities rented to the public, to balance income and expenses?

Generally no, external hire is the key feature in supporting a temple in metro areas.

13. What is the average cost of admission (Initiation), and the annual fees (proportionally to the the average daily earning from employment in your country)? Are there additional fees charged for each degree?

  Initiation$250 GL Fee, $104.50 GL capitation. Lodges set their own fees. No degree fee



15. Must the Petitioner be known to one or more members of the Lodge?

No. They can be proposed by GL via dispensation. It is becoming common. It's helping us build membership. They are still interviewed and some declined. 

16. What investigations about the Applicant for membership are conducted by the lodge after receiving an application for membership – how thorough are these investigations?

References and interviews.

17. Is it usual for an Applicant to be rejected - What are usually the reasons for rejection?

It happens, but generaally before application. Rejection of an applicant comes prior to voting, generally on character grounds or some personality problem.

18. How does an Apprentice qualify for the next level; and the Fellow-craft for the Master's degree? How long does it take for these qualification as a rule?

EA to FC, not less than 12 weeks. EA to MM, not less than 52 weeks. They must undertake education courses as an EA before advancing to each degree.

19. Is a Candidate required to present in lodge one or more Papers (Lectures) to qualify for the next level?

No, such a regulations exists on a lodge level.

20. Are apprentices permitted to speak in Lodge?'

Yes. and vote


21. Is the belief in a “Creator” an indispensable condition for the admission of an applicant?

Yes.

23. Is the belief that the Scriptures (of any religion) constitute the will of God - a determining factor for the approval of an applicant?

No.

24.* Universality*. - for example: Would a just, righteous and reputable North American Indian (true believer in its traditional spirituality) be admitted in a lodge of your Grand Jurisdiction? - such an Indian having no Bible or equivalent Holy Scriptures, but his spirituality and his faithfulness is represented by the Eagle Feather, holding which he swears and feels bound by it. You will find the reasons for this strange question here: http://www.freemasonryresearchforumqsa.com/the-eagle-feather.php

There is nothing in the const. prohibiting such an initiation. I would support such an applicant.

25. Besides the Bible, what other holy writings are permitted to be displayed on the altar of the Lodges in your Grand Jurisdiction?

They are not regulated.

26. Except for the conferral of degrees (Rituals), what other activities are usually undertaken by the lodge?

Talks, socials, fundraising.

27. What public activities for the benefit of the community do the lodges carry on?

It varies greatly from lodge to lodge.

31. Is any activity of the lodge made public in the media?

Yes, open days, open socials, open installations.

32. Do lodges advertise in their website or in the media, to entice new candidates to join the lodge? (To join Freemasonry.)

Yes.

33. After a Brother has completed his term as Master of the Lodge, does he keep his W. Bro. title, or is addressed simply as Brother?

WBro.

34. How common is the resignation of a brother? What are usually the reasons for resigning?

On a lodge level, uncommon, usual reason is moving interstate.


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## vinceatwork (Dec 13, 2015)

Bloke said:


> Hi Brother
> 
> I think a lot of these questions would be best answered by a Grand Secretariat. Members are likely to supply guesses rather than facts.
> 
> ...





vinceatwork said:


> I am searching for information for a *Study about the present conditions of Freemasonry in the world, *which I have undertaken. I already have the answers for Pennsylvania, Montana, New Brunswick, Cuba, Germany, and Italy.
> 
> Masonic Protocol does not permit me to contact Grand Lodges directly, and since such information is rarely or not at all available on the internet, I wonder whether any of you can answer a list of questions  I have prepared for this study as pertaining to any Masonic Jurisdiction in any part of the world.  Here is the List:
> 
> ...



= = = = =
(I hope this is the right place to post a reply - I am new to this medium . . . )

Thank you, Brother.

Are you in the Grand Jurisdiction of Vermont?

Yes, the Grand Secretary would be the Brother to ask these questions but - I have been directed by my Grand Master - through the Grand Secretary - not to contact by letter or email any Grand Jurisdiction outside my own, under the penalty of suspension (and/or expulsion) . . . so, even if more difficult to find, I have no choice but to ask the Brethren, wherever so dispersed upon the face of the earth.


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## pointwithinacircle2 (Dec 13, 2015)

vinceatwork said:


> 29.  Does the assertion: “Masonry is not only the most ancient, but the *most moral human institution* that ever existed” still sounds true to your members?


I am fascinated by this question.  This conclusion may be implied in the mythology of Masonry but using the phrase "that ever existed” implies that there is sure knowledge of everything that has ever existed.  To me this seems like a logical impossibility.


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## Bloke (Dec 13, 2015)

The V in UGLV is for Victoria in Australia.

It's pretty standard for Constitutions to direct members to correspond with other jurisdictions via their own Grand Secs... you can understand it, I would hate our GL Sec to get daily mail from masons writing to them from other jurisdictions, the volume might be huge.

What you might be able to do is find a Grand Sec who want's the answers, and you assist him... Without quantifiable answers from Grand Lodges, your data is going to be very questionable... frankly of no statiscial weight... it's all going to be hearsay and opinions.

Given you are looking for answers now compared to the past, I assume you have a set of reliable answers from the past ?


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## Glen Cook (Dec 13, 2015)

You did contact jurisdictions directly though, as I recollect. I would recommend you go through your grand secretary. You also asked Many questions, appearing to make an undue claim on the secretary's time.

If you wish to have any validity to your research, anonymous internet responses simply won't do.

Some of your questions are easily found by looking the recent MSANA report.  

Some of your questions would be unknown in many jurisdictions,  i.e., the reasons a candidate is reacted.

I also note you brought up the eagle feather issue, leading one to suspect you have an agenda on that issue. This would, in many jurisdictions, require a jurisprudential review.  The likelihood of doing so for an unknown person outside of the responding jurisdiction is decreased.

I would recommend you rethink your goal, consult with MSANA, consult with a more experienced Mason, and obtain official support from either MSANA or your GL


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## vinceatwork (Dec 14, 2015)

JamestheJust said:


> It seems there is some history here.
> 
> Perhaps if you state what propositions you wish to support or refute then it would save the responders a lot of effort.





James, there is indeed some history here: When I started this project I knew to answer those questions would require spending considerable time in research on the part of the responded; I was also aware that asking my Grand Secretary to contact on my behalf the 583 Grand Lodges in the world would have been obscene and without hope; so I decided to write directly to the Grand Lodges, and did so, starting with my own country, and with some of its neighbors in North America. Apparently a great number of those Grand Lodges I had contacted complained to my Grand Lodge (for breach of protocol), thus followed the injunction of my Grand Master.  Fortunately, a small number of those Grand Lodges weren’t stuck on protocol, and generously gave me detailed and useful information, asking me to share with them the results of my research.

I wish to support or refute no proposition of any kind.  The purpose of my study is clearly spelled out in the preamble to my list of questions.


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## vinceatwork (Dec 14, 2015)

Bloke said:


> Hi Brother
> 
> I think a lot of these questions would be best answered by a Grand Secretariat. Members are likely to supply guesses rather than facts.
> 
> ...





Bloke, after spending the all day yesterday soliciting help from any Body (other than Grand Lodges), I finally had the opportunity to closely review your answers.  I am not surprised of what you wrote in answer to Qs. 2 and 3. I thank you for it.


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## Glen Cook (Dec 14, 2015)

vinceatwork said:


> James, there is indeed some history here: When I started this project I knew to answer those questions would require spending considerable time in research on the part of the responded; I was also aware that asking my Grand Secretary to contact on my behalf the 583 Grand Lodges in the world would have been obscene and without hope; so I decided to write directly to the Grand Lodges, and did so, starting with my own country, and with some of its neighbors in North America. Apparently a great number of those Grand Lodges I had contacted complained to my Grand Lodge (for breach of protocol), thus followed the injunction of my Grand Master.  Fortunately, a small number of those Grand Lodges weren’t stuck on protocol, and generously gave me detailed and useful information, asking me to share with them the results of my research.
> 
> I wish to support or refute no proposition of any kind.  The purpose of my study is clearly spelled out in the preamble to my list of questions.


The Grand Secretary likely has CGMNA GLs on email. For them, it would be an easy task.


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## vinceatwork (Dec 14, 2015)

Glen Cook said:


> You did contact jurisdictions directly though, as I recollect. I would recommend you go through your grand secretary. You also asked Many questions, appearing to make an undue claim on the secretary's time.
> 
> If you wish to have any validity to your research, anonymous internet responses simply won't do.
> 
> ...




Glen, you write above "You did contact jurisdictions directly though, as I recollect."  Please see what I wrote in this regard to James below. 
MSANA has some numbers, but not the answers to how those numbers came to be, nor the answer to all my questions.
The "Eagle Feather" - I have no agenda, but a desire to know how we understand Universality and Tolerance.
You say: "I would recommend you rethink your goal,..."  - I have already given it long and serious thought: I should persevere.
"... consult with a more experienced Mason..." - that is exactly what I am doing.
"... and obtain official support from ...  or your GL" - that support has been denied to me.


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## vinceatwork (Dec 14, 2015)

pointwithinacircle2 said:


> I am fascinated by this question.  This conclusion may be implied in the mythology of Masonry but using the phrase "that ever existed” implies that there is sure knowledge of everything that has ever existed.  To me this seems like a logical impossibility.




Point, you have a point.  But, if after strict examination, you find that Masonry is indeed "the *most moral human institution* that ever existed," would you not go to the main square with fife and drum and tell it to the world?


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## Glen Cook (Dec 14, 2015)

vinceatwork said:


> Glen, you write above "You did contact jurisdictions directly though, as I recollect."  Please see what I wrote in this regard to James below.
> MSANA has some numbers, but not the answers to how those numbers came to be, nor the answer to all my questions.
> The "Eagle Feather" - I have no agenda, but a desire to know how we understand Universality and Tolerance.
> You say: "I would recommend you rethink your goal,..."  - I have already given it long and serious thought: I should persevere.
> ...


MSANA uses numbers from the GLs, which duplicate some of your information.

My suggestion for more experienced Masons would be to help struture your research. 

From your prior posting on the eagle feather, it would appear there is an agenda on the subject.  I also suggest that Bulgaria really would be perplexed by the question. 

Why was support from your GL declined?

Have you sought support from MSANA?  They would be better poised to help you. 

Really, resorting to the internet for anonymous input will not provide you the official position of each GL


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## vinceatwork (Dec 14, 2015)

Glen Cook said:


> MSANA uses numbers from the GLs, which duplicate some of your information.
> 
> My suggestion for more experienced Masons would be to help struture your research.
> 
> ...




- Thank you, Glen. I am open and grateful for any help in restructuring my research.
- The Eagle Feather, as declared in my question, is taken as an example - in how to deal with qualified applicants who otherwise do not have a widely acknowledged "book" or "sacred writing." 
- As explained this morning, my GL told me to stop contacting other Grand Lodges, following those Gls. complaining of my breach of protocol.
- I have no experience with MSANA.  I looked at their website and found no place there. where to ask for assistance.  If you know how to do it, please, let me know.
- The internet . . . what other choice do I have? and how reliable is "the official position" of each GL? which I cannot obtain, because ... we are going around in circles, aren't we? And my own GL has told me they cannot give me the answers - because it would take them too much time and effort to find them, time and effort they cannot afford - But they also told me they'll be interested to know the result of my research ...

But tell me, Glen: if you have any answer to my questions, related to your Jurisdiction, why not give them to me?


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## Glen Cook (Dec 14, 2015)

Could I suggest that rather than using the example of the eagle feather, just ask the question you wish answered.  However, I'm guessing the answer will be what is called for in ritual and recognition: They use the VSL.  

Contact for MSANA: http://www.msana.com/contact.asp

You have not indicated why your GL will not help you contact other jurisdictions, at least for CGMNA.  I understand you may not contact them directly and they don't have time to respond to your question.  My thrust is different: Draft the email and letter to be sent with two clicks by your GSec.    

I am not authorized to speak on all of those issues for my jurisdictions and some of the information you already have available from MSANA. And that is the weakness of your approach to the internet: It is so much gossip.

Another suggestion, at CGMNA in Wisconsin in February, seek approval to submit a SHORT Yes/No questionnaire to either the GM's or the GSec's.  You could also do this at the various Regional Masonic Conferences.  

Also, have you looked at Paul Bessel's site?


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## dfreybur (Dec 14, 2015)

vinceatwork said:


> I am open and grateful for any help in restructuring my research.



Based on proceedings from Lodge of Research in a few states you have bitten off far more than one article justifies.  You have questions about population, interpretations of ritual committees, details of requirements.  That's at least 3 papers that your own jurisdiction's Lodge of Research may well be interested in.



> The Eagle Feather, as declared in my question, is taken as an example - in how to deal with qualified applicants who otherwise do not have a widely acknowledged "book" or "sacred writing.



I am dubious most jurisdictions have ever addressed the question.  Much better to ask them if they have encountered the situation at all.  In some cases the topic may have come up locally with GL having no idea it happened.



> As explained this morning, my GL told me to stop contacting other Grand Lodges, following those Gls. complaining of my breach of protocol.



When I read the questions in your list I was puzzled why you were sending them to the Grand Secretary at all.  The population data is published by the Masonic Service Association of North America and might or might not be available at all for world wide jurisdictions.  Several questions would have been appropriate for the Grand Lodge Library of each jurisdiction usually run by their Lodge of Research.  Several questions are matters of personal opinion best done ad hoc as you have here.  Several questions you'd be able to answer by downloading the petition from the web site of each jurisdiction.


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## vinceatwork (Dec 14, 2015)

Glen Cook said:


> Could I suggest that rather than using the example of the eagle feather, just ask the question you wish answered.  However, I'm guessing the answer will be what is called for in ritual and recognition: They use the VSL.
> 
> Contact for MSANA: http://www.msana.com/contact.asp
> 
> ...




Thank you, Glen.
When I started this project I knew to answer those questions would require spending considerable time in research on the part of the responded; I was also aware that asking my Grand Secretary to contact on my behalf the 583 Grand Lodges in the world would have been obscene and hopeless; so I decided to write directly to the Grand Lodges, and did so, starting with my own country, and with some of its neighbors in North America. Apparently a great number of those Grand Lodges I had contacted complained to my Grand Lodge (for breach of protocol), thus followed the injunction of my Grand Master: not to contact directly by post or email any Grand Lodge outside my own, under penalty of suspension and even expulsion. Needless to say, my own Grand Lodge declined to give me the answers, for to find them would require them to spend much time and effort. This is why I cannot count on my Grand Secretary, even for two clicks of the mouse.

I am not in the position to travel to the various Regional Masonic Conferences, but I will contact MSANA. Thanks for the link.  I will also look into the Bessel site.


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## vinceatwork (Dec 14, 2015)

dfreybur said:


> Based on proceedings from Lodge of Research in a few states you have bitten off far more than one article justifies.  You have questions about population, interpretations of ritual committees, details of requirements.  That's at least 3 papers that your own jurisdiction's Lodge of Research may well be interested in.
> 
> I am dubious most jurisdictions have ever addressed the question.  Much better to ask them if they have encountered the situation at all.  In some cases the topic may have come up locally with GL having no idea it happened.
> 
> When I read the questions in your list I was puzzled why you were sending them to the Grand Secretary at all.  The population data is published by the Masonic Service Association of North America and might or might not be available at all for world wide jurisdictions.  Several questions would have been appropriate for the Grand Lodge Library of each jurisdiction usually run by their Lodge of Research.  Several questions are matters of personal opinion best done ad hoc as you have here.  Several questions you'd be able to answer by downloading the petition from the web site of each jurisdiction.


= = = = 

Thank you, Doug.
My initial request to the Grand Secretaries was for putting me in contact with "a person or persons in their jurisdiction who might have knowledge of the matters dealt with by my questions." Five jurisdictions in the US and Canada did just that, and I now have their answers.  Some have ignored my request, and many others have complained to my Grand Secretary, for breach of protocol.  Cuba and Italy have given me the answers, with the blessing of their G. Masters; I obtained the response from Germany through direct correspondence with German Brethren I have corresponded with for many years.

Have I bitten off far more than one article justifies? I don't drink (much) and I don't spend time chasing girls.  What else can an old man do, in the last days of his life? - my aim is not "an article," but a study on the present condition of Masonry; where we were, where we are going; what we did and do successfully or foolishly; so the newer members may take notice and make it better.

Lodges of Research?   I am exploring them too.


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## vinceatwork (Dec 14, 2015)

JamestheJust said:


> It seems to me that the questions you have given are about the body of Masonry.
> 
> As we know however from observation, bodies die when the soul is weak or the spirit has left.
> 
> While the body of Masonry displays symptoms of its dis-eases, it rarely displays the causes - otherwise the dis-eases would have been dealt with long ago.



= = = =

James, I have to agree with you on all three counts.  Do you have any information on what was not done, or is done, or will be done about them in your jurisdiction, to cure the disease?


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## pointwithinacircle2 (Dec 14, 2015)

vinceatwork said:


> Point, you have a point.  But, if after strict examination, you find that Masonry is indeed "the *most moral human institution* that ever existed," would you not go to the main square with fife and drum and tell it to the world?


Honestly no, I would not.  There is a difference between information and knowledge.  Demonstrations in the main square may expose people to information but they seldom impart knowledge.


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## vinceatwork (Dec 14, 2015)

pointwithinacircle2 said:


> Honestly no, I would not.  There is a difference between information and knowledge.  Demonstrations in the main square may expose people to information but they seldom impart knowledge.


= = = =
It may arouse their curiosity, though.  And all our secrecy doesn't help either.


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## pointwithinacircle2 (Dec 14, 2015)

vinceatwork said:


> It may arouse their curiosity, though.  And all our secrecy doesn't help either.


Secrecy doesn't help who?  Check your VSL and see if you can find a place where it recommends keeping things secret in your heart.  I know mine does.


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## vinceatwork (Dec 14, 2015)

pointwithinacircle2 said:


> Secrecy doesn't help who?  Check your VSL and see if you can find a place where it recommends keeping things secret in your heart.  I know mine does.


= = = = = 
Secrecy does not help the Craft, but rather gives rise to suspicion among the profanes.  We are concerned about the general declining membership; would visibility hurt the Craft in any way? And finally, what do we have to hide? our strive for enlightenment? our bond of friendship? our dedication to charity, in all its forms?


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## vinceatwork (Dec 14, 2015)

JamestheJust said:


> My jurisdiction is shrinking at 3% a year as it has done for decades.
> 
> My own view is that the breakaway Grand Lodge of London and Westminster in 1717 constituted a wrong turning as demonstrated in 1727 when it implicitly admitted in the new version of the 3rd degree (Hiram rather than Noah) that the genuine secrets were lost to it.
> 
> ...


= = = = = =

I have just received this morning from a brother in Kansas the statistics for that state 
(scroll down to p. 8): https://www.kansasmason.org/cms/images/KansasMason-Winter2014.pdf
and also for the whole USA. The trend is similar to that of your jurisdiction.

As for the Lost Secrets, you may want to look at what was said about them by a hard-working Mason two centuries ago: http://www.freemasonryresearchforumqsa.com/kraus/00-21e-03-furtherremarks2.php#a4


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## vinceatwork (Dec 14, 2015)

Glen Cook said:


> Could I suggest that rather than using the example of the eagle feather, just ask the question you wish answered.  However, I'm guessing the answer will be what is called for in ritual and recognition: They use the VSL.
> 
> Contact for MSANA: http://www.msana.com/contact.asp
> 
> ...


= = = == 

Glen, I have looked at the Bessel site: good information, but dated (2000).  Useful though, as it can be compared to the most recent from the Masonic Service Association of North America (2014). Is not a pretty picture - now, with my study I hope to find the "whys"


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## Bloke (Dec 14, 2015)

Glen Cook said:


> . Also, have you looked at Paul Bessel's site?



Great site, but the information is becoming dated and is no longer updated.



Glen Cook said:


> ....that is the weakness of your approach to the internet: It is so much gossip



I tend to agree with Glen. After consulting an "experience brother" I would then consult someone qualified and experienced in surveys & research like this, they will poke holes in the questions you have written, and hopefully offer suggestions... *If you are going to do this, you need to do it right*, especially to solicit help from whom you need Brother... *. *If you are going to engage with respected GLs, they will only take the time with quality research (no offense intended).

You need to think about this;


> *Qualitative* research gathers information that is not in numerical form. For example, diary accounts, open-ended questionnaires, unstructured interviews and unstructured observations. *Qualitative data* is typically descriptive *data* and as such is harder to analyze than *quantitative data*



There is another great problem in trying to collect data like this -many GL's will not have hard data on some of your questions. I know our GL (and Freemasons including me) does sampling of a sort - but there are often biased and the sample not truly random.

I think you have several issues
1 - the format and design of the questions themselves - text responses do not allow you to quantify answers. Quantitative rather than Qualitative responses will make analysis easier and the data more transparent..
2 - the delivery of the questions - how will you get a true sample from GLs (and if you randomize it via the web, your responses will be biased by the type of men who answer surveys on the internet). How did you deal with the road block of not being able to contact GLs ? (If your rich, just employ a non-freemason to do it for the purposes of "Fraternal Study")
2a - of you cannot get GLs to participate and use individual masons, you sample will need to BE HUGE to get decent aggregate data, but even then it will be more opinion in nature.

I've got stuck on this sort of thing before, my answer was  to remove any question which could not be put on a scaled response with a numerical or yes/no response, but I've never faced the problem of getting a decent sample...

Have you done this sort of research before ? Do you have any informal or formal training in such research and the following analysis ?


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## Glen Cook (Dec 15, 2015)

vinceatwork said:


> = = = ==
> 
> Glen, I have looked at the Bessel site: good information, but dated (2000).  Useful though, as it can be compared to the most recent from the Masonic Service Association of North America (2014). Is not a pretty picture - now, with my study I hope to find the "whys"


Do you know how many articles have been written on the "why"?


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## vinceatwork (Dec 15, 2015)

Glen Cook said:


> Do you know how many articles have been written on the "why"?


No, Glen, I don't.  Would you tell me?

Also, do you have the answers to my questions for Utah?


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## pointwithinacircle2 (Dec 15, 2015)

Glen Cook said:


> Do you know how many articles have been written on the "why"?


In any situation, it is easier to think about it than to do something about it.


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## vinceatwork (Dec 15, 2015)

Bloke said:


> Great site, but the information is becoming dated and is no longer updated.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


= = = = =


Bloke, I can’t and I won’t argue with your observations.  My study is not a survey that I am conducting for money, and therefore ought to be professionally structured and marketable to be successful – it is a study, by which I hope to form a picture of what the brethren are doing in their jurisdictions that makes their lodges prosper, or decline, perhaps to extinction, as we can see in many example of lodges amalgamating or going dark.  You have given me the answers for Victoria, for which I thank you, and from which one can already draw lessons.

Since I have no shame, I going to ask of you still more: do you know of any brother who can give me the information I seek regarding the other Australian states, and perhaps New Zealand?  You know already I cannot ask the Grand Lodges directly, and all the attempts I have so far made by other means and through other bodies have born no results.


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## Glen Cook (Dec 15, 2015)

vinceatwork said:


> No, Glen, I don't.  Would you tell me?
> 
> Also, do you have the answers to my questions for Utah?




I would guess over a hundred in the last 20 years.  Before beginning a research project, do a literature review.

I am not authorized to speak on all of these issues on behalf of Utah, Oklahoma or UGLE.


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## Bloke (Dec 15, 2015)

I think you should reflect on what I wrote.

I am actually an editor of a masonic newsletter of sizable international distribution....  find a third party site (even facebook will do) and i'll shoot it to my editorial team but i doubt we will form the view to promote it as the methodology will not be seen as sound. For the same reason i will not be promoting it to my personal contacts.

Like it or not brother, you do need to 'market' your survey, particularly as u do not have a GL to promote and drive it. With some digging, i could obtain more answers than i gave but your not successfully motivating me to invest time in your project, esp now in the busy race to Christmas.....


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## vinceatwork (Dec 15, 2015)

Glen Cook said:


> I would guess over a hundred in the last 20 years.  Before beginning a research project, do a literature review.
> 
> I am not authorized to speak on all of these issues on behalf of Utah, Oklahoma or UGLE.


= = = = =

Fair enough. Can you speak on your own behalf, and share your knowledge with me?


----------



## vinceatwork (Dec 15, 2015)

Bloke said:


> I think you should reflect on what I wrote.
> 
> I am actually an editor of a masonic newsletter of sizable international distribution....  find a third party site (even facebook will do) and i'll shoot it to my editorial team but i doubt we will form the view to promote it as the methodology will not be seen as sound. For the same reason i will not be promoting it to my personal contacts.
> 
> Like it or not brother, you do need to 'market' your survey, particularly as u do not have a GL to promote and drive it. With some digging, i could obtain more answers than i gave but your not successfully motivating me to invest time in your project, esp now in the busy race to Christmas.....


= = = == 

I acknowledge having hit another wall. Would that newsletter (any issue) contain any of the information I am seeking?  would I be able to access it?

I thank you for all you have done, and I wish a Marry Christmas to you and to the all Australian brethren and their families.


----------



## dfreybur (Dec 15, 2015)

vinceatwork said:


> Secrecy does not help the Craft, but rather gives rise to suspicion among the profanes.



I say secrecy helps the craft specifically because it makes profanes of poor quality that much easier to identify.  It helps guard the western gate.

There's old the old saying "You can't learn everything about a man by who his friends are, but you can learn a lot.  You can learn even more about a man by who his enemies are than by who his friends are."  I look at the antis and I thank God for making it so easy to judge.



> We are concerned about the general declining membership; would visibility hurt the Craft in any way?



As a researcher you are aware that the Craft grew out of bounds during the WWI-WWII period and it is now returning to the levels or ancestors enjoyed in centuries before that.  As a result the word "We" in your post refers not to you, not to me, not to many of the other members of this board but rather to those brothers not well read in our history.



> And finally, what do we have to hide? our strive for enlightenment? our bond of friendship? our dedication to charity, in all its forms?



Many of our secrets are the type that can be shouted from the roofs and still remain secret.  The advantage remains that secrecy draws out into the open those who would otherwise oppose us in private.  The fact remains that being able to shout certain of our secrets from the roofs and they remain secret explains that many among the mundanes are no ready for some of our types of light.


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## vinceatwork (Dec 15, 2015)

dfreybur said:


> I say secrecy helps the craft specifically because it makes profanes of poor quality that much easier to identify.  It helps guard the western gate.
> 
> There's old the old saying "You can't learn everything about a man by who his friends are, but you can learn a lot.  You can learn even more about a man by who his enemies are than by who his friends are."  I look at the antis and I thank God for making it so easy to judge.
> 
> ...


= = = = = 


Doug, to some extent, I do not agree with you about secrecy.  As for the miseries of the Craft during WW2, I just got a book written some time ago by Ralf Melzer, and translated into English by Glennys Waldman (the librarian at the Grand Lodge of Pennsylvania).  I didn’t get to read it yet, but I hope to do so soon.  I also have a book on the history of Archimedes lodge in Altenburg (Germany) from its inception in 1743 to the present, which deals with its troubles during the Napoleonic wars, the Nazi era, and during the DDR era.  As soon as I am done with the Study on the present condition of Masonry, I will translate this history for my brethren.

I see you have ties to lodges in Texas, California, and Illinois.  Do you have any information regarding my questions, that you can share with me for those States?


----------



## dfreybur (Dec 15, 2015)

California answers.

1.  Total number of members in your Grand Jurisdiction - Are the numbers up or down? (As compared to 10 years ago)

Down.  53136 end of 2013, 50781 end of 2014.  The 2015 report is not yet out and I don't keep older reports.

2.  On the whole, do you feel the lodges in your jurisdiction are prospering or declining?

Some lodges in each situation.  Individual lodges move back and forth between the two situations.  My mother lodge has been through 2 up and down cycles in my 20 years of membership when counting the number of degrees confirmed, though the total membership continues to decline because of the giant boom that ended about 1960.

3.  What are the causes of this prosperity, or decline?

Number of activities each year has a large influence but local economy has also been a large driver.

4.  Which segments of the population/professions constitute the membership in your area?

I don't know how to answer this as the data on profession only appears in petitions and is not tracked in any database.

5.  What is the average age now found among the members? Is the age average now changed (up or down) as compared to the past?

69.31 right now for my mother lodge.  There is no report that I could find for past or for the entire jurisdiction.  I think average age is falling becasue so many elderly brothers from the boom are dying.

6.  What is the average membership size of yourLodges?

550 per lodge

7.  What percentage of the membership is usually present at the lodge meetings?

Under 10% as usual for American lodges

8.  How often do members meet, in lodge or socially, each month?

Monthly family dinner 12 times.  Other social and fund raising events 12 times.

Lodge opens at least for practice every Tuesday except the night of the family dinner.

9.  Do your lodges meet in the summer months?

Yes.  No skipped meetings.

10.  With the exception of members who can not attend the meetings, due to illness or distance, what remedies or sanctions are enforced against the defaulting members (e.g. complaint, summons to appear and to justify their absence, expulsion or other ....); how common are these cases?

No sanctions.  During the meeting we welcome back any member not a regular for positive reinforcement.

11.  Are the temple’s building generally the property of the lodge, co-owned with other lodges, or rented from others (commercial enterprise)?

The temple corporation is a stock company with many owners.  Pasadena Lodge holds well over 90% of the stock but we have never been able to gather all shares.  Some shares were sold to individuals during the construction fundraising and some of those individuals have no known estate.

12.  Are the membership fees sufficient to pay for the maintenance of the Temple, or are some of the Temple facilities rented to the public, to balance income and expenses?

No.  A large fraction of the income comes from trust fund proceeds and the profit from building rentals.  The life membership fund does not see even interest withdrawals.  The combination of building rental profits and trust fund proceeds puts our lodge far above the majority of lodges for income.

13.  What is the average cost of admission (Initiation), and the annual fees (proportionally to the the average daily earning from employment in your country)? Are there additional fees charged for each degree?

I'm a life member so I send them checks but I don't pay attention to current fees.

14.  What are the most common reasons today in your Grand Jurisdiction that entice a petitioner to join a Lodge?

High opinion of the order.

15.  Must the Petitioner be known to one or more members of the Lodge?

In theory yes.  In practice if you pull out a petition pens start pointing at you immediately.

16.  What investigations about the Applicant for membership are conducted by the lodge after receiving an application for membership – how thorough are these investigations?

California requires character witnesses.  They are called by telephone.  The committee visits the home of every candidate before the ballot.

Candidates sign permission forms for background checks.  Background checks are not required by GL and few lodges conduct them.

17.  Is it usual for an Applicant to be rejected - What are usually the reasons for rejection?

Unusual to reject a candidate.  It is forbidden to ask why a cube is dropped.  No reason is ever announced in the rare cases that the committee's recommendation is a no.

18.  How does an Apprentice qualify for the next level; and the Fellow-craft for the Master's degree? How long does it take for these qualification as a rule?

There is a memorized proficiency to be delivered in tiled lodge between EA and FC, between FC and MM.  Often this is down before the next degree.

There is a memorized proficiency after the MM degree but it is only required to hold an elected office in a lodge.  In California all lodges elect JW. SW, SE, TR, WM and appoint all other officers.

19.  Is a Candidate required to present in lodge one or more Papers (Lectures) to qualify for the next level?

No.

20.  Are apprentices permitted to speak in Lodge?

Speak yes.  Vote no.

21.  Is the belief in a “Creator” an indispensable condition for the admission of an applicant?

No.  Only belief in the existence of a supreme being.

22.  Are any believers of other (not mainstream) faiths excluded from membership?

No.  The religious diversity in California is vast.

23.  Is the belief that the Scriptures (of any religion) constitute the will of God - a determining factor for the approval of an applicant?

No.  Not consistent with religious diversity.

24.*  Universality*. - for example: Would a just, righteous and reputable North American Indian (true believer in its traditional spirituality) be admitted in a lodge of your Grand Jurisdiction? - such an Indian having no Bible or equivalent Holy Scriptures, but his spirituality and his faithfulness is represented by the Eagle Feather, holding which he swears and feels bound by it. You will find the reasons for this strange question here: http://www.freemasonryresearchforumqsa.com/the-eagle-feather.php

As I posted elsewhere if he wants to bring his own VSL it would have to be a book.  The book would have to be approved by vote of the lodge members at the initiation.  The GL publishes a list of pre-approved VSLs of numerous well known faiths.  Some lodge members might prefer the book be vetted by members of Lodge of Research.  I know that a book on Scientology has been declined by local vote at one point.  Putting a feather into the book would not be an issue.

25.  Besides the Bible, what other holy writings are permitted to be displayed on the altar of the Lodges in your Grand Jurisdiction?

§402.060. ALTERNATE HOLY WRITINGS
...
A.
If the candidate does not wish to be obligated on the Holy Bible, he must select an
alternate Holy Writings in book form from a list promulgated from time to time by the
Grand Master of the Holy Writings of those recognized religions whose theology is
notinconsistent with a belief in a Supreme Being and a future existence. The Grand Master’s
list shall at all times include the al-Kitab al-Aqdas of Bahaism, the Tripitaka of
Buddhism, the Analects of Confucianism, the Vedas of Hinduism, the Koran of Islam,
the Tanach of Judaism, the Koji-ki of Shintoism, the Adi Granth of Sikhism, the Tao-te
Ching of Taoism and the Zend Avesta of Zoroastrianism. In selecting an alternate Holy
Writings, the candidate must state that the book chosen is the Holy Writings of his
religious faith;
...
E.
When an alternate Holy Writings is used during a degree, a closed Holy Bible of any size
must be on the altar; and
...

I note this list is not exhaustive as it provides a means to add VSLs.  The current list has not changed since it was passed back in the late 1990s.

26.  Except for the conferral of degrees (Rituals), what other activities are usually undertaken by the lodge?

Social events.  Charity fund raisers.  District meetings don't always teach ritual.  Regional conferences generally don't include rituals.

27. What public activities for the benefit of the community do the lodges carry on?

Some volunteer events like painting a school.  Blood drives at the district level.

28.  What is the perception of Freemasonry by the general public in your area? (City, State, Province or Country)

Very high in California.

29.  Does the assertion: “Masonry is not only the most ancient, but the *most moral human institution* that ever existed” still sounds true to your members?

I've never heard the expression before so the word "still" makes no sense.  Masonry has never tried to compete with other orders.

30.  Does this assertion sound true to the general (profane) public in your area?

I have no idea.

31.  Is any activity of the lodge made public in the media?

Our charity fund raising events are listed in the local newspaper.  Rental events at our building are often listed in the local building.

32.  Do lodges advertise in their website or in the media, to entice new candidates to join the lodge? (To join Freemasonry.)

The GLofCA has a published PR program with camera ready artwork.  No lodge I know of has ever used the material.

33.  After a Brother has completed his term as Master of the Lodge, does he keep his W. Bro. title, or is addressed simply as Brother?

Worshipful.  It is very common for a PM to wear his own PM apron from then on.

34.  How common is the resignation of a brother? What are usually the reasons for resigning?

Rare.  I have seen brothers go to appendent bodies and never attend again but I don't think that's what you mean.

Because California does multiple and plural memberships it is not common to demit to other lodges.

35.  Is there any other information about the present practice of Masonry in your Grand Jurisdiction that would render this study more complete and useful?

= = = = = = = =

For further information on this Study, feel free to contact me: Bro. Vincent Lombardo – P.M. Quinte St. Alban’s Lodge No. 620 G.R.C., Thornhill, Ontario, Canada, +1 905 - 731-0504 vince.lombardo.to@gmail.com[/QUOTE]


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## vinceatwork (Dec 15, 2015)

dfreybur said:


> California answers.
> 
> 1.  Total number of members in your Grand Jurisdiction - Are the numbers up or down? (As compared to 10 years ago)
> 
> ...


[/QUOTE]
= = = = = 

Doug, this is great.  Thank you very much.
for No. 1, I have the figures from another source (for California as well). No. 8 - Family dinner, should I read once a month? and 2 Lodge Meetings monthly? No. 13 - can you find out what these fees are for non life members?  No. 34 - you are correct: my question refers to brethren that leave Masonry.


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## Glen Cook (Dec 15, 2015)

My personal view

1. Total number of members in your Grand Jurisdiction - Are the numbers up or down? (As compared to 10 years ago). A: See MSANA report

2. On the whole, do you feel the lodges in your jurisdiction are prospering or declining? A: See MSANA report

3. What are the causes of this prosperity, or decline? A: Likely the same reasons as other GL's

4. Which segments of the population/professions constitute the membership in your area? A: It is unclear what "segments of the population" means.  If it means professions, this is unknown, as the statistics are not kept by the GL. Additionally, it is not clear if trades are included in the word "professions."  I individually know tattoo artists, military members, lawyers, bankers, doctors, a rocket scientist, retirees; production line supervisor; flower grower.

5. What is the average age now found among the members? Is the age average now changed (up or down) as compared to the past? A: Refer to GL. It is not thought that there would be historical information.

6. What is the average membership size of your Lodges? A: Refer to GL


7. What percentage of the membership is usually present at the lodge meetings? A: Unknown by GL.  

8. How often do members meet, in lodge or socially, each month? A: Varies with lodge

9. Do your lodges meet in the summer months? A: Varies with lodge

10. With the exception of members who can not attend the meetings, due to illness or distance, what remedies or sanctions are enforced against the defaulting members (e.g. complaint, summons to appear and to justify their absence, expulsion or other ....); how common are these cases? A: It is unclear what "defaulting members" means.  If this refers to Masonic Complaints, refer to GL Code, available in Amazon

11. Are the temple’s building generally the property of the lodge, co-owned with other lodges, or rented from others (commercial enterprise)? A: Varies with lodges.

12. Are the membership fees sufficient to pay for the maintenance of the Temple, or are some of the Temple facilities rented to the public, to balance income and expenses? A: In Salt Lake City proper, no.  Refer to individual lodges

13. What is the average cost of admission (Initiation), and the annual fees (proportionally to the the average daily earning from employment in your country)? Are there additional fees charged for each degree? A: Varies with lodge.  Each lodge sets own fees. The average daily earning in the US is unknown. The requester would have this information and it is inappropriate to ask others to determine that information.

14. What are the most common reasons today in your Grand Jurisdiction that entice a petitioner to join a Lodge?  A: Unknown.  Refer to petitioners. It is likely the same across the US

15. Must the Petitioner be known to one or more members of the Lodge? A: Yes.

16. What investigations about the Applicant for membership are conducted by the lodge after receiving an application for membership – how thorough are these investigations? A: Varies with Lodge. See also http://www.wasatchlodge.org/wp-content/petition.pdf

17. Is it usual for an Applicant to be rejected - What are usually the reasons for rejection? A: Refer to the Code on discussion of rejections.  GL does not keep statistics on how many are rejected.

18. How does an Apprentice qualify for the next level; and the Fellow-craft for the Master's degree? How long does it take for these qualification as a rule? A: Refer to Code. GL does not have information on a rule as to how long it takes.

19. Is a Candidate required to present in lodge one or more Papers (Lectures) to qualify for the next level? A: No. Refer to Code

20. Are apprentices permitted to speak in Lodge? A: If the degree is open on the appropriate degree, yes

21. Is the belief in a “Creator” an indispensable condition for the admission of an applicant? A: See   sample petition http://www.wasatchlodge.org/wp-content/petition.pdf

22. Are any believers of other (not mainstream) faiths excluded from membership? It what is meant by mainstream faiths.  A: See petition http://www.wasatchlodge.org/wp-content/petition.pdf

23. Is the belief that the Scriptures (of any religion) constitute the will of God - a determining factor for the approval of an applicant? A: See petition http://www.wasatchlodge.org/wp-content/petition.pdf

24.* Universality*. - for example: Would a just, righteous and reputable North American Indian (true believer in its traditional spirituality) be admitted in a lodge of your Grand Jurisdiction? - such an Indian having no Bible or equivalent Holy Scriptures, but his spirituality and his faithfulness is represented by the Eagle Feather, holding which he swears and feels bound by it. You will find the reasons for this strange question here: http://www.freemasonryresearchforumqsa.com/the-eagle-feather.php
A: See petition http://www.wasatchlodge.org/wp-content/petition.pdf

25. Besides the Bible, what other holy writings are permitted to be displayed on the altar of the Lodges in your Grand Jurisdiction? A: It is unclear what "holy writings" means.  The Koran, Vida; others; Refer to Grand Lodge for specifics.

26. Except for the conferral of degrees (Rituals), what other activities are usually undertaken by the lodge? A: Varies with lodge. Recommend survey of lodges.

27. What public activities for the benefit of the community do the lodges carry on? A: Various: Food banks, charitable donations; scholarships; sub for Santa. Recommend survey of lodges. The Masonic Foundation of Utah makes significant grants

28. What is the perception of Freemasonry by the general public in your area? (City, State, Province or Country). A: In the view of Glen Cook: Many people have never heard of Freemasonry.

29. Does the assertion: “Masonry is not only the most ancient, but the *most moral human institution* that ever existed” still sounds true to your members? A: Unknown.  Glen Cook does not recollect having ever heard of that, and would disagree with it.  Survey of members recommended.

30. Does this assertion sound true to the general (profane) public in your area? A: Unknown, as have not surveyed them. Glen Cook suspects some would find it offensive, as it would indicate their religious faith was not moral. 

31. Is any activity of the lodge made public in the media? A: Yes

32. Do lodges advertise in their website or in the media, to entice new candidates to join the lodge? (To join Freemasonry.) A: What does "advertise" mean?  There are websites.

33. After a Brother has completed his term as Master of the Lodge, does he keep his W. Bro. title, or is addressed simply as Brother? A: He retains Worshipful

34. How common is the resignation of a brother? What are usually the reasons for resigning? A: It is unclear what is meant by resignation.  Demit? Reunciation?  No reasons are required for either. 

35. Is there any other information about the present practice of Masonry in your Grand Jurisdiction that would render this study more complete and useful?  A: Refer to Code.  Read the Communication reports. Do an internet search on Grand Lodge of Utah. Review the Lodge websites and FB pages. Review the history of Masonic discrimination against Latter-day Saintsnd the antipathy between the two organizations


----------



## vinceatwork (Dec 15, 2015)

Glen, I go by the assumption you are a member of a Lodge (or more than one); that you have been around Masonry for some time; that you are well-read in Masonic matters, and as such, you have some knowledge regarding the questions I ask.  If a stranger and a Profane in the street were to ask you my questions - how would you answer him? In my neck of the woods, if you ask a lawyer "what time is it?" and he answers you, theoretically he is legally entitled to bill you for it.  Now, if by the same theory your reluctance is motivated by fear of becoming in some way legally liable (under masonic laws or under that blessed protocol) in answering my questions, then I understand you; and I also understand how deeply troubling is our dedication to secrecy and protocol.  I am not asking you to speak of policies and laws of your Grand Lodge, or to speak for it. Tell me, if you know it, how many time lodges in your area meet each month, generally; what are the fees for joining the lodge, generally; what activities do lodges carry on in your area, generally; how common is the sad occasion of a new member to undergo his initiation, and then never to return to lodge, and why, if any, generally; and so on.  Glen, I am not asking for state secrets. My questionnaire may well be imperfect - but what is there to lose, and by whom, in answering those questions?

Let me add: would you not want to know what practices have caused other lodges in other areas to fail and disappear; or to prosper? Would it not be prudent on the part of every lodge, and every Grand Lodge to acquire such knowledge? – and free of charge! However imperfect in the manner in which it was obtained, since I am not a lawyer, nor a professional pollster. However, Brother Glen, I wish a Merry Christmas to you too.


----------



## Glen Cook (Dec 15, 2015)

vinceatwork said:


> Glen, I go by the assumption you are a member of a Lodge (or more than one); that you have been around Masonry for some time; that you are well-read in Masonic matters, and as such, you have some knowledge regarding the questions I ask.  If a stranger and a Profane in the street were to ask you my questions - how would you answer him? In my neck of the woods, if you ask a lawyer "what time is it?" and he answers you, theoretically he is legally entitled to bill you for it.  Now, if by the same theory your reluctance is motivated by fear of becoming in some way legally liable (under masonic laws or under that blessed protocol) in answering my questions, then I understand you; and I also understand how deeply troubling is our dedication to secrecy and protocol.  I am not asking you to speak of policies and laws of your Grand Lodge, or to speak for it. Tell me, if you know it, how many time lodges in your area meet each month, generally; what are the fees for joining the lodge, generally; what activities do lodges carry on in your area, generally; how common is the sad occasion of a new member to undergo his initiation, and then never to return to lodge, and why, if any, generally; and so on.  Glen, I am not asking for state secrets. My questionnaire may well be imperfect - but what is there to lose, and by whom, in answering those questions?
> 
> Let me add: would you not want to know what practices have caused other lodges in other areas to fail and disappear; or to prosper? Would it not be prudent on the part of every lodge, and every Grand Lodge to acquire such knowledge? – and free of charge! However imperfect in the manner in which it was obtained, since I am not a lawyer, nor a professional pollster. However, Brother Glen, I wish a Merry Christmas to you too.



No, the attorneys in your area are not required to bill, even in theory.  In fact, the CBA encourages pro bono. 

See the answers above, which point out some of the deficiencies in your questions and your lack of knowledge and experience in the GL system. 

Yes, you really are asking me to speak for my GL, you just don't understand that, and that is one of the problems in this enterprise.

It is not a dedication to secrecy.  It is an issue of protocol, agency and manners.  I am a retired US Naval officer.  I did not speak for the CINC.  I spoke for my Command.  I do not have permission to speak on some matters for the fraternity.  It is also a matter of arrogance.  We have pleny of Masons for a Minute who are happy to opine as to protocol, law, ritual and custom throughout the Masonic universe, including Mars.  It would appear you don't really wish authoritative information.  My reading is that you have a hobby horse, and you wish to fill the blanks on a spread sheet regardless of whether the information is valid. Really, you hadn't even bothered to look at the MSANA stats. 

We already have information on membership issues.  You just seem unaware of it. There are so many papers on why the Craft is failing that seeking yet more personal views adds nothing.  Much like the MSANA, you haven't bothered to research the topic.  Read the Masonic Society, the Philalethes, Masonic Restoration Foundation, CGMNA reports, WCRMGL proceedings, regional Masonic conference proceedings, Shrine Membership Seminar, AASR publications, and more online comments than my system can generate. 

Nevertheless, as indicated, I've replied to your survey. You can now indicate that someone in Utah had never heard that Freemasonry was the best moral system ever.


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## vinceatwork (Dec 15, 2015)

Glen Cook said:


> No, the attorneys in your area are not required to bill, even in theory.  In fact, the CBA encourages pro bono.
> 
> See the answers above, which point out some of the deficiencies in your questions and your lack of knowledge and experience in the GL system.
> 
> ...


 == = = =
Thank you, Glen.


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## Browncoat (Dec 15, 2015)

I have to agree with a few others who have pointed out the flaws with your study. Aside from a high school level research paper, the methodology used here simply wouldn't hold up as a valid form of research. I'm not sure that any worthwhile data could be gathered, and it's validity is suspect at best. I think your intentions are noble, but I also think the results (if ever completed) would be so inaccurate that they would overshadow the purpose of the study. Realistically, several key factors are unknown:

Are respondents real Masons?
Are the questions being answered with factual data or opinion?
If factual data, can it be sourced and referenced?
Additionally, many of the questions are inconsistent. One minute, you're asking for a single person to speak for an entire jurisdiction, the next, at the local lodge level, and the next on a personal level. This alone invalidates the study for all practical reasons because the demographic hasn't been zeroed in.

Again, I will agree with others and say that it seems like you're trying to paint a picture with a snowblower. Restructure your questions. Refine your study. Redefine your purpose.


----------



## Warrior1256 (Dec 16, 2015)

dfreybur said:


> I say secrecy helps the craft specifically because it makes profanes of poor quality that much easier to identify. It helps guard the western gate.
> 
> There's old the old saying "You can't learn everything about a man by who his friends are, but you can learn a lot. You can learn even more about a man by who his enemies are than by who his friends are." I look at the antis and I thank God for making it so easy to judge.


Very so brother, very so.


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## vinceatwork (Dec 16, 2015)

JamestheJust said:


> If the question is: "how can Freemasonry survive?" then there are a number of options to consider:
> 
> - A much smaller Freemasonry
> - Follow the practice of many Christian clergies:  when you run out of men, admit women
> ...





JamestheJust said:


> If the question is: "how can Freemasonry survive?" then there are a number of options to consider:
> 
> = = = = =
> 
> ...


----------



## vinceatwork (Dec 17, 2015)

Browncoat said:


> I have to agree with a few others who have pointed out the flaws with your study. Aside from a high school level research paper, the methodology used here simply wouldn't hold up as a valid form of research. I'm not sure that any worthwhile data could be gathered, and it's validity is suspect at best. I think your intentions are noble, but I also think the results (if ever completed) would be so inaccurate that they would overshadow the purpose of the study. Realistically, several key factors are unknown:
> 
> Are respondents real Masons?
> Are the questions being answered with factual data or opinion?
> ...


= = = = = 


To Browncoat, James and whoever else may read this:

As I promised to James yesterday, the following is the information I received from Masons in two jurisdictions, so far representing the most successful and the worse.  I will at the end comment on your posts.

*Study on the present conditions of Freemasonry in the world.*

The purpose of this research is to form a *snapshot* of the* Present Conditions of Masonry in the world*,as compared to the past, and draw from it lessons that may help us Masons work to address present issues, recognize successes or failures, and find solutions for the better future of our Craft.  The sources of the information I may receive will remain completely confidential. At the conclusion of this study I will disclose my findings, but not the sources, to all those who have contributed, and they will be free to use this information as they deem it proper.

Information received from one European Jurisdiction [See Note 1 below]

Questions: 


1. Total number of members in your Grand Jurisdiction - Are the numbers up or down? (As compared to 10 - 20 years ago)
A.  22,000 members, growing [16,000 in 204; 22,223 in 2014; in 834 lodges, of which 22 newly chartered in 2014]



2. On the whole, do you feel the lodges in your jurisdiction are prospering or declining?
A.  Prospering, but the education's level is mostly unsatisfactory



3. What are the causes of this prosperity, or decline?
A.  Many young people hope to find their values, because they are deluded by politics and religion.



4. Which segments of the population/professions constitute the membership in your area?
A.  Graduates, mid-class and professionals, some students. Few blue collars.



5. What is the average age now found among the members? Is the age average now changed (up or down) as compared to the past?
A.  Average 50 years old, moving toward 40



6. What is the average membership size of yourLodges?
A.  25-30



7. What percentage of the membership is usually present at the lodge meetings?
A.  50 - 60%



8. How often do members meet, in lodge or socially, each month?
A.  Twice a month as lodge.



9. Do your lodges meet in the summer months?
A.  Sometimes



10. With the exception of members who can not attend the meetings, due to illness or distance, what remedies or sanctions are enforced against the defaulting members (e.g. complaint, summons to appear and to justify their absence, expulsion or other ....); how common are these cases?
A.  Not very common. Often complaints, very rarely expulsion due to absences or misbehavior (these Brethren are urged to demit).



11. Are the temple’s building generally the property of the lodge, co-owned with other lodges, or rented from others (commercial enterprise)?
A.  In the biggest cities they are owned by a company controlled by Grande Lodge: in small towns they are rented.



12. Are the membership fees sufficient to pay for the maintenance of the Temple, or are some of the Temple facilities rented to the public, to balance income and expenses?
A.  They are sufficient; fully covered by membership fees.



13. What is the average cost of a) admission (Initiation), and b) the annual fees? Are there additional fees charged for c) each degree?
A.  a) 500 - 800 euro; b) 500 euro; c) yes, 250 - 270 euro



14. What are the most common reasons today in your Grand Jurisdiction that entice a petitioner to join a Lodge?
A.  Good reputation, good culture and interest in our traditions.  Desire to become a better man, in every respect. The quest of spirituality, fee from dogmas, plays a significant role, too, even if not for the majority of petitioners.



15. Must the Petitioner be known to one or more members of the Lodge?
A.  Preferably yes, but not necessarily. A Brother must sign the petition, vouching for him. If unknown, the time for acceptance is longer. [See Note 1 below]



16. What investigations about the Applicant for membership are conducted by the lodge after receiving an application for membership – how thorough are these investigations?
A.  Usually, three Brethren have a chat with him, trying to understand the very reasons of his request, plus: Police report and investigations at his workplace, and within his family.



17. Are Applicants ever rejected - What are usually the reasons for rejection?
A.  Some 10% are rejecteddue to bad information from Brethren, for not believing in a supreme being. A petitioner is also rejected if he appears to be neither a free man nor of good report.



18. How does an Apprentice qualify for the next level; and the Fellow-craft for the Master's degree? How long does it take for these qualification as a rule?
A.  It depends on the lodge. Some lodges require his regular attendance, some others ask for a paper, too. Generallythe behavior of the Apprentice and Fellow in the Lodge and outside the Lodge is a factor. For the Fellows the quality of their Papers in the Lodge is also a factor. The elapse of time between each degree is one year, but in some lodges it is longer, typically 3 years from Apprentice to Fellow; 1 to 2 years from Fellow to Master.



19. Is a Candidate required to present in lodge one or more Papers (Lectures) to qualify for the next level? [See answer above]


20. Are apprenticespermittedto speakinLodge?
A.  Not at all. Unless asked by the W. M.



21. Is the belief in a “Creator” an indispensable condition for the admission of an applicant?
A.  Yes.



22. Are any believers of other (not mainstream) faiths excluded from membership?
A.  No.



23. Is the belief that the Scriptures (of any religion) constitute the will of God - a determining factor for the approval of an applicant?
A.  No. The sense of transcendence is sufficient.



*24. Universality*. – As an Example, would a just, righteous and reputable North American Indian (true believer in its traditional spirituality) be admitted in a lodge of your Grand Jurisdiction? - such an Indian having no Bible or equivalent Holy Scriptures, but his spirituality and his faithfulness is represented by the Eagle Feather, holding which he swears and feels bound by it. You will find the reasons for this strange question here: http://www.freemasonryresearchforumqsa.com/the-eagle-feather.php
*A.  *Yes



25. Besides the Bible, what other holy writings are permitted to be displayed on the altar of the Lodges in your Grand Jurisdiction?
A.  Those requested by the Brethren.



26. Except for the conferral of degrees (Rituals), what other activities are usually undertaken by the lodge?
A.  Discussion on lectures or papers on a wide variety of topics, except Politics and Religion, delivered by Brethren and candidates for advancement.  All the Brethren (except Apprentices) are encouraged to participate in the discussion.



27. What public activities for the benefit of the community do the lodges carry on?
A.  Public meetings (conventions). Also, we do charity work both at the central level (GL) and at the local level, based on the economic capabilities of the lodges and of the regional district. We do help individuals and also have institutions for helping homeless and people in need.



28. What is the perception of Freemasonry by the general public in your area? (City, State, Province or Country)
A.  Bad, in times and the regions where the Catholic Church or political parties demonize Freemasonry as a secret society with ulterior purposes. But the GL is actively pursuing the goal to change this sentiment through transparency, good behavior and public activities.



29. Does the assertion: “Masonry is not only the most ancient, but the *most moral human institution* that ever existed” sounds true to your members? [Note: this question was not present in List of Questions when this study was initiated.]


30. Does this assertion sound true to the general (profane) public in your area? [Note: this question was not present in List of Questions when this study was initiated.]


31. Is any activity of the lodge made public in the media?
A.  Rarely.



32. Do lodges advertise in their website or in the media, to entice new candidates to join the lodge? (To join Freemasonry.)
A.  No the lodges, but the GL does.



33. After a Brother has completed his term as Master of the Lodge, does he keep his W. Bro. title, or is addressed simply as Brother?
A.  Simply as Brother.



34. How common is the resignation of a brother? What are usually the reasons for resigning?
A - It is uncommon (2 to 3%). A Brother resigns if he did not find what he had sought. Some people look for political aid, some others for occult mental powers, others hope to facilitate their business.


Is there any other information about the present practice of Masonry in your Grand Jurisdiction that would render this study more complete and useful? [None received.]


NOTE 1: The information received from the second European Jurisdiction is in all aspects very much similar to the first reported above.  Noteworthy in this jurisdiction are two lodges directly known to me (I have attended their meetings) of which in one the brethren usually regularly meet 8 - 9 times per month.

NOTE 2: In this Jurisdiction the application for membership must also include the _curriculum vitae_ of the Applicant; certificate of residence; Police clearance; a number of photos (this number varies depending on the place of residence); all the information, including the photo and the scheduled dates for the ballots (2 ballots are taken), is transmitted to the district and to GL; an office in charge of these matter then distributes this information to all lodges in the Jurisdiction. Many other steps follow, but for the purpose of this study, I put forward three most peculiar: 1) the first ballot is taken in lodge at the date announced in the circulation of information mentioned above; the second ballot is taken on the following regular meeting of the lodge. 2) *Visitors* can and *must* cast their ballots on the application. 3) In this Jurisdiction one is and can be a member of only one lodge. 4) The preparation (education) of a candidate is executed by weekly study sessions conducted by 3 M.M.s with the candidate, covering a large amount of material contained in books (not like our black booklets) issued by the GL, the Apprentice’s 195 pages long; the Craftsman’s 170 pages; the Master’s 270 pages.


= = = = = = = = =


Information received from one North-American Jurisdiction

Questions:

1.  Total number of members in your Grand Jurisdiction - Are the numbers up or down? (As compared to 10 - 20 years ago)

A.  Our membership has been on a steady decline since 1960. Historically we have always had the second smallest Masonic membership in this Jurisdiction. This was in part due to its ethnic makeup, which precluded membership among Roman Catholic men. In 1960 we had 8,961 members, as at December 31, 2014 we had 2,842 members.


2.  On the whole, do you feel the lodges in your jurisdiction are prospering or declining?

A.  [See above]


3.  What are the causes of this prosperity, or decline?

[See above]


4.  Which segments of the population/professions constitute the membership in your area?

A.  Unknown.


5.  What is the average age now found among the members? Is the age average now changed (up or down) as compared to the past?

A.  The average age is around 65 years.


6.  What is the average membership size of yourLodges?

A.  72 members.


7.  What percentage of the membership is usually present at the lodge meetings?

A.  We tend to use the rule of thumb that 20% of the members are active and attend lodge. Of course this varies from lodge to lodge.


8.  How often do members meet, in lodge or socially, each month?

A.  Typically members meet once a month at lodge meetings. A few of our lodges have regular social events but they are not monthly.


9.  Do your lodges meet in the summer months?

A.  We have a couple of lodges that meet in the summer. The rest of the lodges recess for the summer months.


10.  With the exception of members who can not attend the meetings, due to illness or distance, what remedies or sanctions are enforced against the defaulting members (e.g. complaint, summons to appear and to justify their absence, expulsion or other ....); how common are these cases?

A.  None.


11.  Are the temple’s building generally the property of the lodge, co-owned with other lodges, or rented from others (commercial enterprise)?

A.  The bulk of our lodges own their building. There are four lodge buildings in the jurisdiction that house more than one lodge. (Three of these have two lodges using the building and in the case of the Masonic Temple in XXXXX there are six lodges that meet there.) There are at least four lodges that meet in a public type of building where they pay a rental fee.


12.  Are the membership fees sufficient to pay for the maintenance of the Temple, or are some of the Temple facilities rented to the public, to balance income and expenses?

A.  Generally speaking lodge dues are far too low in this jurisdiction. The Masonic Temple in XXXXXX has commercial properties on the ground floor of the building.


13.  What is the average cost of admission (Initiation), and the annual fees? Are there additional fees charged for each degree?

A.  Initiation fees range from $75.00 to $250.00. Annual dues range from around $60.00 to $150.00. There are no additional fees charged for each degree.


14.  What are the most common reasons today in your Grand Jurisdiction that entice a petitioner to join a Lodge?

A.  Unknown.


15.  Must the Petitioner be known to one or more members of the Lodge?

A.  No.


16.  What investigations about the Applicant for membership are conducted by the lodge after receiving an application for membership – how thorough are these investigations?

A.  A cursory investigation takes place.


17.  Are Applicants ever rejected - What are usually the reasons for rejection?

A.  Rejection of an applicant is a very rare occurrence in this jurisdiction.


18.  How does an Apprentice qualify for the next level; and the Fellow-craft for the Master's degree? How long does it take for these qualification as a rule?

A.  In this jurisdiction there is a proficiency requirement consisting of an examination and in some lodges reciting the obligation is also required. All of our lodges with the exception of one (my lodge, XXX No. X) employ the 3X3 rule, three degrees in three months.  In my lodge there is a minimum of three months between degrees.


19.  Is a Candidate required to present in lodge one or more Papers (Lectures) to qualify for the next level?

A.  There is only one lodge in this jurisdiction that has that requirement and that is my lodge.


20.  Are apprentices permitted to speak in Lodge?

A.  In certain circumstances yes.


21.  Is the belief in a “Creator” an indispensable condition for the admission of an applicant?

A.  Yes.


22.  Are any believers of other (not mainstream) faiths excluded from membership?

A.  Not that I am aware of.


23.  Is the belief that the Scriptures (of any religion) constitute the will of God - a determining factor for the approval of an applicant?

A.  Generally speaking yes.


24.  *Universality*. – As an Example, would a just, righteous and reputable North American Indian (true believer in its traditional spirituality) be admitted in a lodge of your Grand Jurisdiction? - such an Indian having no Bible or equivalent Holy Scriptures, but his spirituality and his faithfulness is represented by the Eagle Feather, holding which he swears and feels bound by it.  You will find the reasons for this strange question here: http://www.freemasonryresearchforumqsa.com/the-eagle-feather.php

A.  Good question. Not sure what the response would be in this jurisdiction.


25.  Besides the Bible, what other holy writings are permitted to be displayed on the altar of the Lodges in your Grand Jurisdiction?

A.  Besides the VOSL of the Jewish faith I am not sure that any other VOSLs are in use at the current time. We did have a Muslim member in my lodge but he has moved west. During his time in lodge the Koran was opened on the altar.


26.  Except for the conferral of degrees (Rituals), what other activities are usually undertaken by the lodge?

A.  Some of our lodges have been making an effort to include some form of Masonic education as part of their programming. In the case of my lodge and one other we hold a number of Agapes each year.


27.  What public activities for the benefit of the community do the lodges carry on?

A.  The primary activity in this Jurisdiction are [is] fund raising efforts for Camp Goodtime, a yearly weeklong camp for children afflicted with Cancer that is put on by the XXXX Cancer Society. This camp is fully funded by the Masons of XXXXX through our charitable arm the XXXX Masonic Charities and Housing.


28.  What is the perception of Freemasonry by the general public in your area? (City, State, Province or Country)

A.  Not sure that the general public is all that aware of Freemasonry in this Area and further to that not all that sure that they want to be. The general public really does not care as to whether we exist or not.


29.  Does the assertion: “Masonry is not only the most ancient, but the *most moral human institution* that ever existed” sounds true to your members? [Note: this question was not present in List of Questions when this study was initiated.]


30.  Does this assertion sound true to the general (profane) public in your area? [Note: this question was not present in List of Questions when this study was initiated.]


31.  Is any activity of the lodge made public in the media?

A.  On a very limited basis the answer is yes. Certainly the amount of press that Freemasonry receives is greatly diminished from what it was years ago.


32.  Do lodges advertise in their website or in the media, to entice new candidates to join the lodge? (To join Freemasonry.)

A.  Our Grand Lodge web site has a section on how to join as do the websites of the few lodges that utilize this technology. There are frequent inquiries to our webmaster from individuals who are interested in joining. Our webmaster forwards those inquiries to a lodge closest to the individual who has made the inquiry.


33.  After a Brother has completed his term as Master of the Lodge, does he keep his W. Bro. title, or is addressed simply as Brother?

A.  In this jurisdiction rank is retained at both the lodge and Grand Lodge level.


34.  How common is the resignation of a brother? What are usually the reasons for resigning?

A.  By resignation I assume that you are referring to taking a demit. In this jurisdiction we are seeing approximately 2.5% of our membership requesting and taking a demit each year. There has been a significant increase in the number yearly number of demits since 2007. Not sure why.


Is there any other information about the present practice of Masonry in your Grand Jurisdiction that would render this study more complete and useful?

A.  I could go on for hours and hours on this subject. Certainly it is far too long to type out and I am not sure that I would want it recorded for posterity anyway. Freemasonry in this jurisdiction is in a great deal of trouble and over the next five years is going to be greatly diminished from what it is now with far fewer lodges.



= = = = = = = =

Now, if you really believe the information contained in the answers above is useless, because the method in obtaining it was designed in a high-school-like fashion, and faulty in innumerable ways, then smile amused in your doctoral satisfaction, keep what you know about these questions for yourself, and move on. But if, perchance, you feel any of this information could be useful to your Brethren and your Lodge, to stop the decline into irrelevance, or to prevent falling into it, by all means: make use of it, even if was collected by a third grade Masonic student, who knew not how professionally dress his questionnaire. After all, Browncoat, I did not propose myself to research and write a doctoral treatise, but just to take a “snapshot.”

Too often ideas or initiatives proposed by others are dismissed a priori if they appear too ambitious, or lacking a certain degree of elegance, the measure of which rests usually in the eyes of the critic. Another often present reason for the dismissal of ideas and initiatives rests in the easy to take way out: why bother – it won’t work anyway – and do nothing.

Those Brethren who answered my questions did not question my method.  If you have any information regarding my questions for your area, what harm is there in sharing it with me? – After all, I am not asking you to speak for your Grand Lodge – but only for yourself.  And if you really want to help: ask my questions to your Grand Secretary! You are allowed to – while, I am not.


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## Browncoat (Dec 17, 2015)

vinceatwork said:


> After all, Browncoat, I did not propose myself to research and write a doctoral treatise, but just to take a “snapshot.”



The only difference between opinion and fact is credibility. 

We have "snapshots" for the reasoning behind the decline of Freemasonry all over the place. Books have been written about the subject. Internet forums and blogs are littered with the same. We all pay a certain amount of lip service to those opinions, as many of us have seen those things happening right in front of us. However, at the end of the day, it's all gossip.

A study points to factual information from which reasonable conclusions and hypotheses can be drawn. If the data is flawed, then so will the results be. That is why the data must be carefully cultivated and sourced so that it is known to be true. So that you can effectively remove the X Factor of opinion and inject a healthy dose of credibility. When a study like that is crafted on this subject, it will be a very useful tool. As I said, your intentions are noble. But this study has a long way to go before it's anything but just another opinion.


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## vinceatwork (Dec 18, 2015)

Browncoat said:


> The only difference between opinion and fact is credibility.
> 
> We have "snapshots" for the reasoning behind the decline of Freemasonry all over the place. Books have been written about the subject. Internet forums and blogs are littered with the same. We all pay a certain amount of lip service to those opinions, as many of us have seen those things happening right in front of us. However, at the end of the day, it's all gossip.
> 
> A study points to factual information from which reasonable conclusions and hypotheses can be drawn. If the data is flawed, then so will the results be. That is why the data must be carefully cultivated and sourced so that it is known to be true. So that you can effectively remove the X Factor of opinion and inject a healthy dose of credibility. When a study like that is crafted on this subject, it will be a very useful tool. As I said, your intentions are noble. But this study has a long way to go before it's anything but just another opinion.


= = = = = 

How true, this lip service, and all that gossip. But you ask for facts, Browncoat: you must be from Missouri.

Membership Report 2014 – U.S. - Missouri: 42,850 (2013) - 40,862 (2014) - 1,988 (decrease)

Source: The Masonic Service Association of North America

The information contained in the two examples I submitted yesterday comes directly from the Brethren the two respective Grand Lodges had appointed to answer my questions; and in the case of the European one, corroborated by the 2014 Grand Secretary’s report of that Grand Lodge.

Other than that, I confess, I did not verified, or in any manner audit, their figures and statements, as I take them for educated and factual.

I thank you for calling my effort “noble,” in contrast with our Brother from Utah, who questioned my motives, and suggested ulteriority.

Utah: 1,935 (2013) – 1860 (2014) – 75 (loss) – The same source.

Now, Browncoat, I will dance with you a while longer – but not too long, as there is a great deal of work I need to do, in order to reach the other 517 Jurisdictions (out of 583) I have not yet contacted. Which I can only do indirectly, or risk suspension or expulsion, as promised by my Grand Master.

You say: “We have "snapshots" for the reasoning behind the decline of Freemasonry all over the place. Books have been written about the subject. Internet forums and blogs are littered with the same. We all pay a certain amount of lip service to those opinions, as many of us have seen those things happening right in front of us. However, at the end of the day, it's all gossip.”

So, where do we go from here? Stop searching? Stand back and sit down – waiting for miracles? Do nothing?

With my two examples yesterday I asked: is there anything useful in that information (be it factual or opinionated) that our lodges can use to reverse the downward trend and revive Masonry where it is dying, or prevent mistakes, where it is now prospering?

And now I ask you, Browncoat: do you have any factual information, or if not factual, educated opinion, regarding the matters my questions seek to ascertain, that you can contribute to my study?

As an inducement, I give the words of a Brother, who around 1810 wrote, and I quote (the translation):

*"One, who in viewing the deficiency in human relations, the perverseness, the corruption among men, drops his hands and complains of evil times, is no man. Just in this that you are capable of seeing men as deficient, lies upon you a holy calling to make them better. If everything was already what it ought to be, there would be no need of you in the world and you would as well have remained in the womb of nothingness. Rejoice that all is not yet as it ought to be, so that you may find work and can be useful toward something."*


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## flipster (Jan 3, 2016)

I attempted a paper in college, as I recall now, to see if GPA in each of 53 colleges were correlated to their ACT composites.  I did a good study, plenty of letters and was disappointed to find out only 3 of the colleges required ACT, and none could supply composites.  It was a good study, just not well thought out.  You must know there are no average lodges.  And the information, should you collect it all, and work through it, would be so vast as to not be cipherable.  Your GL has told you how to proceed or not.  We had a member a couple years back who argued that he should be able to purchase a read our Blue Book.  He was told to write GL and purchase it.  He did.  We haven't seen him since.  It's how it rolls sometimes.


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## vinceatwork (Jan 13, 2016)

Hi to all, and happy New Year!

I am in the process of sorting out and make some sense of the information so far received.  I have no information at all for the jurisdictions of South America, New South Wales, Queensland, South Australia, Tasmania, Western Australia, New Zealand, Ireland, Scotland, the Baltic states, and Russia.

Any help anyone can give me for these regions will be greatly appreciated.


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## vinceatwork (Jan 13, 2016)

Thank you, James.

Your information for Queensland is very similar to that of Victoria, North America, and England.  Central America and Continental Europe offer a much prettier picture, the details of which I am now compiling.

Personally, and independently of my study, I concur with what you have written, and in that sequence.  Perhaps I am an optimist, but I like to believe there is hope your last line “So far there is not a lot of interest” may one day change.


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## vinceatwork (Jan 13, 2016)

There is, indeed, something to learn from our French brethren.  I came across a week or two ago a presentation made by a French brother at an international gathering, where he explains the historical and political reasons of their deviation from the precepts imposed by UGLE, and their consequent alienation from it, and inviting those present to work on reconciliation and mutual recognition.  I cannot put my hands on it right now, but I know I have saved it somewhere, intending to use it in my comments following the results of my study.  I will post it here, when I find it.


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## vinceatwork (Feb 29, 2016)

vinceatwork said:


> There is, indeed, something to learn from our French brethren.  I came across a week or two ago a presentation made by a French brother at an international gathering, where he explains the historical and political reasons of their deviation from the precepts imposed by UGLE, and their consequent alienation from it, and inviting those present to work on reconciliation and mutual recognition.  I cannot put my hands on it right now, but I know I have saved it somewhere, intending to use it in my comments following the results of my study.  I will post it here, when I find it.


= = = = = =

February 29, 2016

I have completed my Study, and it is now published here: http://www.freemasonryresearchforumqsa.com/conditions-of-freemasonry.php

I express my sincere thanks to those of you who have taken the time to find and give me the information regarding your lodge or jurisdiction.

fraternally,  vinceatwork.


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## dfreybur (Feb 29, 2016)

Good job and tenacity!


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## pointwithinacircle2 (Feb 29, 2016)

JamestheJust said:


> One of the great gaps is modern Masonry is the lack of knowledge of the work of the MM.


 I am currently reading "The Way of Initiation" by Rudolph Steiner.  I wonder if his description of initiation is pertinent to the work of a MM.


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## pointwithinacircle2 (Mar 1, 2016)

I agree with you that much of the old wisdom has moved into the public sector.  Someone once asked me where all the Prophets had gone and I replied that today they are all corporate trainers.    Indeed, much of the book echos (while predating) the work I did decades ago while working through the "A Course in Miracles" workbook.  However there is a difference between knowing the information and doing the work.  There appears to be a knowing that inspires one to do the work and a knowing that is the result of doing the work.  Rather like the difference between knowing the Grand Canyon exists and knowing what it is like to stand at the edge and look into it.


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## Bloke (Mar 1, 2016)

Firstly, thank you for delivering on your promise and sharing your findings.

Secondly, well done on a large amount of work.

Thirdly, it is going to take me a while to read that, but I will go through it. I'm only on the second response, but am interested to see there is a bit of self criticism, it's good to acknowledge when you write a poorly worded question, and it is only when you get responses that you find our it is poorly worked (experience talking here). Also, well done in not changing the question but sticking with it so all responses are consistent.

Loved this quote "though admitting a modest increase in membership, laments the general decline in lodge vitality"

Indeed. Vitality is key. Ten motivated men are going to achieve more than 1,000 who do nothing; sure there is potential in the 1,000 but if they don't achive anything, then its wasted..


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