# In need of light and assistance.



## BroCaution (Jan 18, 2017)

Not sure if this is the correct channel to even ask this but I am in need of assistance. Long story short, I am not very knowledgeable of Masonry, and the only mason I know personally is my brother. I have been interested for about 8 years now, I am 26 years old. This past month I have petitioned to join my brother's lodge and was entered.

  After the initiation, I was very excited to dive into the knowledge that was presented to me, and started researching even heavier than before. I purposely left parts of it to surprise, because I wanted to leave the "mystique" to it.  With doing my diligent research I was devastated to learn the existence of clandestine organizations purporting to be true masons. I am African-American and was unaware of the various groups midleading people, since I had no prior connection to this network. It was not explained to me that I was not becoming a Free and Accepted Mason, but an International Mason. After grasping a slight understanding of recognition and history I asked the brothers of my lodge about their affliation with this body and why it wasn't explained to me and nobody gave me a real answer. I also inquired about the history and who allowed International to be created, and why I couldn't seem to find any history past 1950 about the order, also with no explanation from my lodge.

In conclusion, what am I to do? I have just been initiated and paid fees so I don't even have a dues card yet. How do I respectfully bow out of this lodge ? Also how can I get in touch with official brother who will be able to lead me in there right path? Even though I have only taken the first degree, I am very serious about the craft and being a part of a clandestine organization is not something I can be a part of. Please help if you can.

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## Brother JC (Jan 18, 2017)

First, where are you? You will need to look for a recognized lodge in your area.


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## BroCaution (Jan 18, 2017)

Sorry about the double post, didn't realize it. I'm from Chicago, IL


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## CLewey44 (Jan 18, 2017)

Wow, I'm sorry it went down like that. I would look on this site and see if you can find a lodge near you.

http://go.masonicconnections.com/Site/GrandLodgeIllinois/Information/LodgeLocator.aspx

From the looks, obviously a lot of lodges around. I would be willing to bet you'd have to go through the initiation again and whatever additional things IL requires. However, it's a minor hiccup and as far as being a member at the 'clandestine' lodge still, I would just explain that to whichever secretary you email or speak with from the GL of IL site. I'm sure it'd be understood and they may ask that you demit your prior membership before being allowed to join. Being out XXX amount of dollars is a little frustrating too I'm sure. Hopefully it all gets resolved.


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## BroCaution (Jan 18, 2017)

Appreciate the response. I've sent emails to the GL of IL, hopefully I can get some assistance.

I also would have no problem starting over, i'm the type of person who would rather do things right.


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## MRichard (Jan 18, 2017)

Your other option is PHA: http://www.mwphglil.com/


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## BroCaution (Jan 19, 2017)

MRichard said:


> Your other option is PHA: http://www.mwphglil.com/



That is the direction i'm looking to head in. Thank you sir.


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## Bloke (Jan 19, 2017)

BroCaution said:


> Not sure if this is the correct channel to even ask this but I am in need of assistance. Long story short, I am not very knowledgeable of Masonry, and the only mason I know personally is my brother. I have been interested for about 8 years now, I am 26 years old. This past month I have petitioned to join my brother's lodge and was entered.
> 
> After the initiation, I was very excited to dive into the knowledge that was presented to me, and started researching even heavier than before. I purposely left parts of it to surprise, because I wanted to leave the "mystique" to it.  With doing my diligent research I was devastated to learn the existence of clandestine organizations purporting to be true masons. I am African-American and was unaware of the various groups midleading people, since I had no prior connection to this network. It was not explained to me that I was not becoming a Free and Accepted Mason, but an International Mason. After grasping a slight understanding of recognition and history I asked the brothers of my lodge about their affliation with this body and why it wasn't explained to me and nobody gave me a real answer. I also inquired about the history and who allowed International to be created, and why I couldn't seem to find any history past 1950 about the order, also with no explanation from my lodge.
> 
> ...



Wow... what did your brother say?

Not everyone knows about irregular/clandestine etc. If I suddenly found my GL was irregular after 13 years, I probably wouldn't care, because I don't travel and have a lot of friends in it.... 

Your brother might not have the same view as you, these groups often survive because they are tight knit, he might be firmly entrenched there;  although it's sometimes  obvious  it's how "masons" make a living, churning through candidates to make a wage... that's  not how regular Freemasonry works.. many regular freemasons regard these groups as a scam.. sadly, some are exactly that..

If you were my friend, I'd definitely recommend leaving before you get in too deep in sunk costs of cash and time, and also before making new friends which might make it tricky to leave.... (but if it was me, I'd be tempted to do the degrees to see how different they were  but I'm a naughty non-conformist.....)


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## BroCaution (Jan 19, 2017)

Bloke said:


> Wow... what did your brother say?
> 
> Not everyone knows about irregular/clandestine etc. If I suddenly found my GL was irregular after 13 years, I probably wouldn't care, because I don't travel and have a lot of friends in it....
> 
> ...



When I questioned my brother about it, he tried convincing me that the difference wasn't major (mind you he's 20 years my senior)..but that's something I can't accept. I want to do this the correct way so I can be in unity.


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## BullDozer Harrell (Jan 19, 2017)

BroCaution said:


> Sorry about the double post, didn't realize it. I'm from Chicago, IL


Good news for you. You're within the territory of my GL's jurisdiction. I'm a member of the Prince Hall Grand Lodge of Illinois. I hope to be of assistance to you.

A bit of mixed news though, you might have to just chalk up a financial loss with that organization. It's the William V. Banks group, right? But hey you'll save yourself from throwing away future monies. It's cheaper to just walk away NOW.

If you have the time, please take a few moments to check my GL's website and my subordinate lodge's as well.

Respectively, they are www.mwphglil.com and www.cornerstone91.com.

Android OS Nougat 7.0


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## BroCaution (Jan 19, 2017)

BullDozer Harrell said:


> Good news for you. You're within the territory of my GL's jurisdiction. I'm a member of the Prince Hall Grand Lodge of Illinois. I hope to be of assistance to you.
> 
> A bit of mixed news though, you might have to just chalk up a financial loss with that organization. It's the William V. Banks group, right? But hey you'll save yourself from throwing away future monies. It's cheaper to just walk away NOW.
> 
> ...




Sir I was just reading about your lodge last night. Do you guys have a building around 42nd? I attended De La Salle high school not too far from there.


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## BroCaution (Jan 19, 2017)

And yes sir, i'd rather not mention the lodge and it is a William v Banks affiliated group.

I'm a reader, so after researching his "incorporated" group. I knew that this wasnt the organization I was looking to join.


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## BullDozer Harrell (Jan 19, 2017)

BroCaution said:


> Sir I was just reading about your lodge last night. Do you guys have a building around 42nd? I attended De La Salle high school not too far from there.


Our Grand Lodge Temple is located on 42nd pl & Cottage Grove

Android OS Nougat 7.0


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## BullDozer Harrell (Jan 19, 2017)

BroCaution said:


> And yes sir, i'd rather not mention the lodge and it is a William v Banks affiliated group.
> 
> I'm a reader, so after researching his "incorporated" group. I knew that this wasnt the organization I was looking to join.


International Free & Accepted Masonry founded by Banks started out as a splinter group from Modern Free & Accepted Masons founded by a guy named J. Baldwin. 

Neither Banks nor Baldwin were ever Regular Masons. So their organizations are not traceable to a competent Masonic authority. Both sprung up from out of nowhere.

At least, John G. Jones and John A. Bell were Regular Masons at one point. However both were expelled for conferring degrees illegally and establishing lodges unlawfully throughout the U. S.

Android OS Nougat 7.0


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## BroCaution (Jan 19, 2017)

Thank you for the information, and I will be in contact soon.

God works in mysterious ways, I was definitely on your lodges website last night as I was researching PHA Masons on the South Side of Chicago.

Thanks again for all the responses guys, furthermore proving that this is a great brotherhood.


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## CLewey44 (Jan 19, 2017)

@BroCaution Looks like this has fell right into place! Congrats and good luck.


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## Glen Cook (Jan 19, 2017)

BroCaution said:


> And yes sir, i'd rather not mention the lodge and it is a William v Banks affiliated group.
> 
> I'm a reader, so after researching his "incorporated" group. I knew that this wasnt the organization I was looking to join.


Just a note: being incorporated isn't a sign a group is clandestine (though this one is). It is an issue when the rely upon incorporation as a source of legitimacy


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## dfreybur (Jan 19, 2017)

In America please never wait on a response in email.  Many lodges are terrible at responding.  Look up when they meet.  Knock on the door.  Introduce yourself and tell them your situation.


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## Dontrell Stroman (Jan 19, 2017)

BullDozer Harrell said:


> International Free & Accepted Masonry founded by Banks started out as a splinter group from Modern Free & Accepted Masons founded by a guy named J. Baldwin.
> 
> Neither Banks nor Baldwin were ever Regular Masons. So their organizations are not traceable to a competent Masonic authority. Both sprung up from out of nowhere.
> 
> ...


In TN modern free & accepted masons run rapid. Good luck convincing these guys their charter is bogus. Myself and other PHA masons has asked these guys why wont they leave modern free alone and joim a recongized lodge. I havent ever been given a answer.


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## BullDozer Harrell (Jan 20, 2017)

dfreybur said:


> In America please never wait on a response in email.  Many lodges are terrible at responding.  Look up when they meet.  Knock on the door.  Introduce yourself and tell them your situation.


Funny you would say so, Brother.  It's so true. 
Told him the exact same thing recently. I rarely check the lodge's email account. My preferences are personal email accts. My reasons are to control the quality of inquiries and volume i choose to deal with sometimes. Lots of cranks & kooks out there. The lodge's email attracts all. 


Android OS Nougat 7.0


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## Bloke (Jan 20, 2017)

BullDozer Harrell said:


> Funny you would say so, Brother.  It's so true.
> Told him the exact same thing recently. I rarely check the lodge's email account. My preferences are personal email accts. My reasons are to control the quality of inquiries and volume i choose to deal with sometimes. Lots of cranks & kooks out there. The lodge's email attracts all.
> 
> 
> Android OS Nougat 7.0



It amazes me how little crazy email I get to my lodge accounts.... what does shock me is the number of spammers trying to sell me regalia.

My recommendation is not to have an email you only check once a month. I have one like that, but it actually says "inquiries from this contact form are rarely checked and it might be several months before we reply" then lists other ways to contacts us via other sites "for a more speedy response". By chance I checked it yesterday and thought about removing it, it's only been used 3 times in 6 months to contact us (I'd easily get double that many external emails a day to my other masonic accounts). I will check my analytics to see if folk are using the links to other sites I control.

Not replying to a reasonable and sincere question is rude, especially if you've invited people to ask questions. Have you considered supplying an email and not checking it is similar ? Many visiting brothers I respond to say they've contacted other Lodges without a response and it creates a bad impression of those lodges and Freemasonry. If you're not going to check your email weekly, then I suggest you just refer people to GL.....

This is a bug bear of mine, so many potential bros spend months trying to contact lodges, if your not going to answer inquiries, please don't create the false impression you will reply by giving out an ignored email address. It your  going to have a web presence, don't create a poor impression of local Freemasonry by not responding to people who use it to contact you.... if your not able  to commit to replying, then simply refer people to others who will.


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## Tela.B (Mar 17, 2017)

It seems to me while we fussing about who's and who's wrong we need to come together as one while the 3 and 4 letter white mason is continuing to build a bridge and us that's right I said US feel like we the ones who started this first. I been on both sides of fence if PHA feels like FA&AM is not legit take them to court, but all the back and forward is very childish.


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## jermy Bell (Mar 18, 2017)

CLewey44 said:


> Wow, I'm sorry it went down like that. I would look on this site and see if you can find a lodge near you.
> 
> http://go.masonicconnections.com/Site/GrandLodgeIllinois/Information/LodgeLocator.aspx
> 
> From the looks, obviously a lot of lodges around. I would be willing to bet you'd have to go through the initiation again and whatever additional things IL requires. However, it's a minor hiccup and as far as being a member at the 'clandestine' lodge still, I would just explain that to whichever secretary you email or speak with from the GL of IL site. I'm sure it'd be understood and they may ask that you demit your prior membership before being allowed to join. Being out XXX amount of dollars is a little frustrating too I'm sure. Hopefully it all gets resolved.


The grand lodge secretary of Illinois is WRB frank cline.


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## acjohnson53 (Mar 27, 2017)

The Brothers has pretty much summed it up on what you  have to do....now get on out there and get raised right Brother....


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## acjohnson53 (Mar 27, 2017)

I just Love to see Brothers at work...Cudo's to Brother Bulldozer Harrell......Makes me remember my obligation...


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## acjohnson53 (Mar 27, 2017)




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## BullDozer Harrell (Mar 27, 2017)

acjohnson53 said:


> I just Love to see Brothers at work...Cudo's to Brother Bulldozer Harrell......Makes me remember my obligation...


I'm humbled very much by you. Kudos to you too.


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