# Cabletow



## Bro. A (Mar 15, 2019)

How long is a cabletow?


----------



## Glen Cook (Mar 15, 2019)

http://www.themasonictrowel.com/Articles/degrees/degree_1st_files/the_cabletow_length_gltx.htm


----------



## Bro. A (Mar 15, 2019)

Glen Cook said:


> http://www.themasonictrowel.com/Articles/degrees/degree_1st_files/the_cabletow_length_gltx.htm



Yes! As long as you want it to be is what I was looking for.


----------



## Bloke (Mar 16, 2019)

Bro. A said:


> Yes! As long as you want it to be is what I was looking for.


Like many questions in Freemasonry, there is often more than one answer


----------



## coachn (Mar 16, 2019)

Bro. A said:


> How long is a cabletow?


*Within the context of Freemasonic Mythology: *The length of an individual's cable tow is determined by and proportional to _that individual's skills in properly maintaining his responsibilities, duties and obligations_ external to the Freemasonic organization. 

Any instance where an individual doesn't appropriately maintain his responsibilities, duties and obligations external to his Freemasonic activities, roles, obligations is the moment he has exceeded the length of his cable tow.

*How long is a cable tow? *As long as each individual's properly maintained external responsibilities, duties and obligations.


----------



## Bloke (Mar 16, 2019)

coachn said:


> *Within the context of Freemasonic Mythology: *The length of an individual's cable tow is determined by and proportional to _that individual's skills in properly maintaining his responsibilities, duties and obligations_ external to the Freemasonic organization.
> 
> Any instance where an individual doesn't appropriately maintain his responsibilities, duties and obligations external to his Freemasonic activities, roles, obligations is the moment he has exceeded the length of his cable tow.
> 
> *How long is a cable tow? *As long as each individual's properly maintained external responsibilities, duties and obligations.


Acknowledging how you use the words, wouldn't you say "Masonic Mythology" rather than "Freemasonic"  or is "Masonic" only concerned with logic and facts ?


----------



## coachn (Mar 16, 2019)

Bloke said:


> Acknowledging how you use the words, wouldn't you say "Masonic Mythology" rather than "Freemasonic"...


I wouldn't say that.  Freemasonry is about the organization; "cable-tow" is an organizational term, defined by the organization and used within ritual to convey the limits of ritual obligations as I have conveyed by the precursory "*Within the context of Freemasonic Mythology:*".


Bloke said:


> ...or is "Masonic" only concerned with logic and facts ?


Masonry is about building.  Logic and facts are but small parts of building.


----------



## Bloke (Mar 17, 2019)

coachn said:


> I wouldn't say that.  Freemasonry is about the organization; "cable-tow" is an organizational term, defined by the organization and used within ritual to convey the limits of ritual obligations as I have conveyed by the precursory "*Within the context of Freemasonic Mythology:*".
> 
> Masonry is about building.  Logic and facts are but small parts of building.


See, I don't see the cable tow in an Organizational sense, perhaps extending to society, perhaps to family, but much more personal.. about the obligations I take on as a man; some of these are masonic, but the the most important ones stand outside the fraternity..


----------



## coachn (Mar 17, 2019)

Bloke said:


> See, I don't see the cable tow in an Organizational sense, perhaps extending to society, perhaps to family, but much more personal.. about the obligations I take on as a man; some of these are masonic, but the the most important ones stand outside the fraternity..


This is why I premised it with: "*Within the context of Freemasonic Mythology:*"

It is an *organizational term* that's all about the _*burdens* each of us have *outside* the organization._


----------



## dfreybur (Mar 17, 2019)

Bro. A said:


> How long is a cabletow?



GL of Illinois defines it as 50 miles then ignores that definition and says each Brother defines it for themselves.

It's 50 miles because if you petition a lodge farther than that from home you're supposed to get a lodge closer to your home to submit a "Waiver of Jurisdiction" form to give you permission. It's a rule that gets ignored but the last time I looked the form is still available.

It's also the state border no matter how close you live to the border.

In either case any one Brother can go whatever distance he is willing.


----------



## Bloke (Mar 17, 2019)

JamestheJust said:


> Given that the first degree penalty comes under naval jurisdiction (below high tide) it may be that the cable tow is a further reference.


Might be a long bow.. but it is an interesting idea...


----------



## Warrior1256 (Mar 18, 2019)

Great information, as usual, on this forum. I have learned so much here over the years and continue to do so. Thanks Brothers!


----------



## Rifleman1776 (Mar 22, 2019)

The Oxford English Dictionary defines a cable length as "about 100 fathoms: in marine charts 605.56 feet, or one tenth of a sea mile.


----------



## coachn (Mar 22, 2019)

Rifleman1776 said:


> The Oxford English Dictionary defines a cable length as "about 100 fathoms: in marine charts 605.56 feet, or one tenth of a sea mile.


Is a "cable-tow" equivalent to a "cable length"?


----------



## Rifleman1776 (Mar 23, 2019)

coachn said:


> Is a "cable-tow" equivalent to a "cable length"?



That would take a little research to verify. But, if my aging memory serves me, a "cable length" is the distance a level ships cannon could fire a ball before it hit water. Range was increased by raising the muzzle. An enemy ship might be several cable lengths away and adjustments were made to try to hit it.


----------



## Winter (Mar 23, 2019)

Rifleman1776 said:


> The Oxford English Dictionary defines a cable length as "about 100 fathoms: in marine charts 605.56 feet, or one tenth of a sea mile.



Just curious, how does this relate to the Masonic Cable Tow we learn about in our rituals?


----------



## acjohnson53 (Mar 23, 2019)

My Cable Tow does not have a length,Always willing to assist in anyway I can, I only look down on Brothers when I'm helping them up./G\SMIB, I was raised that that way...


----------



## Bro. A (Mar 23, 2019)

acjohnson53 said:


> My Cable Tow does not have a length,Always willing to assist in anyway I can, I only look down on Brothers when I'm helping them./G\SMIB, I was raised that that way...



Yes!!! The Cabletow shouldn't have a length. It should be endless.


----------



## Brother JC (Mar 23, 2019)

I remember asking my mentor how long it was (after it had become a part of my life). He told me, “only you can answer that.”


----------



## coachn (Mar 24, 2019)

acjohnson53 said:


> My Cable Tow does not have a length,...


Are you seriously implying that its use within ritual as a rule, guide and healthy limit to your freemasonic involvement and obligations is just lip service when it comes to your health, your family and your vocation and that they are not really priorities over the Craft?


acjohnson53 said:


> ...Always willing to assist in anyway I can...


But you just boldly stated that your cable-tow does not have a length!  "Anyway I can" implies that you actually DO have a limit.  So, which is it?


acjohnson53 said:


> ...I only look down on Brothers when I'm helping them.....


Why would you ever look down on your Brothers?


acjohnson53 said:


> I was raised that that way...


Are you stating you were raised to put Brothers and the Craft first and your health, family and vocation second, in direct opposition with the very intent of the Cable-Tow Clause?


Bro. A said:


> Yes!!! The Cabletow shouldn't have a length. It should be endless.


Really?  Then what good purpose does it even serve being put within ritual and repeated endlessly for candidates?  Is it merely a quaint and manipulative statement to quell their imagined fears and fool them into agreeing with obligations that will overshadow their obligations outside the Craft?

At this point I believe we all need to better comprehend your original question and its main term:


Bro. A said:


> How long is a cabletow?


1) In your mind, what is a freemasonic "cabletow"?
2) To your best understanding, what is a cabletow's freemasonic purpose?
3) For what intent is the freemasonic cabletow mentioned within ritual?
4) Why is it mentioned within ritual where it is?


----------



## Warrior1256 (Mar 24, 2019)

Bro. A said:


> Yes!!! The Cabletow shouldn't have a length. It should be endless.


Agreed!


----------



## Bro. A (Mar 24, 2019)

coachn said:


> Are you seriously implying that its use within ritual as a rule, guide and healthy limit to your freemasonic involvement and obligations is just lip service when it comes to your health, your family and your vocation and that they are not really priorities over the Craft?
> 
> But you just boldly stated that your cable-tow does not have a length!  "Anyway I can" implies that you actually DO have a limit.  So, which is it?
> 
> ...





coachn said:


> Are you seriously implying that its use within ritual as a rule, guide and healthy limit to your freemasonic involvement and obligations is just lip service when it comes to your health, your family and your vocation and that they are not really priorities over the Craft?
> 
> But you just boldly stated that your cable-tow does not have a length!  "Anyway I can" implies that you actually DO have a limit.  So, which is it?
> 
> ...



Coachn, I think you've  missed the entire point of what I was trying to make my brother.  We all know what the "text book" definition of the cabletow is. And I'm definitely not saying put Masonry before family, vocation, or refreshment or sleep. But I will say this... if a Brother calls and needs help or just want to sit and talk to get something off of his chest. Guess what, I'm there. Let me clarify myself on something, my cabletow does have a "length" when it comes to me physically being there for brothers across the globe. I can not get each and every brother in person. That's just not possible. But with the power of the internet and cell phones,  my cabletow is endless, if a Brother needs to talk and just needs to be heard, I WILL ALWAYS be there no matter what.
Maybe I should have asked the question in a different way and my apologies for the confusion.
Think about this, WE are ALL having a conversation about the length of the cabletow. Right now, at this very second, I'd say it's very long and endless.....


----------



## coachn (Mar 24, 2019)

Bro. A said:


> Coachn, I think you've  missed the entire point of what I was trying to make my brother.


Yeah, I totally get that you think that I think  that.


Bro. A said:


> We all know what the "text book" definition of the cabletow is.


Actually, we all do NOT know what the "text book" definition is.  That's the entire point of my responses. I thought you'd get that point without me having to point it out.


Bro. A said:


> And I'm definitely not saying put Masonry before family, vocation, or refreshment or sleep.


But you are saying exactly that when you say: _Yes!!! The Cabletow shouldn't have a length. It should be endless._

That's the point! The cable-tow is a point put within ritual to point out that there is a limiting point where we must consider and honor our external obligations OVER our Craft obligations.

And you are never going to be able to do that not understanding the point of this being pointed out at a specific point in ritual.


Bro. A said:


> But I will say this... if a Brother calls and needs help or just want to sit and talk to get something off of his chest. Guess what, I'm there.


But you must do that _within the length of your cable-tow _or you are not honoring freemasonic instruction.  It is not an honorable act to exceed the length of your cable-tow. It is detrimental to your life.


Bro. A said:


> Let me clarify myself on something, my cabletow does have a "length" when it comes to me physically being there for brothers across the globe. I can not get each and every brother in person. That's just not possible. But with the power of the internet and cell phones,  my cabletow is endless, if a Brother needs to talk and just needs to be heard, I WILL ALWAYS be there no matter what.


_...within the length of your cable-tow..._


Bro. A said:


> Maybe I should have asked the question in a different way and my apologies for the confusion.


Agreed and accepted.


Bro. A said:


> Think about this, WE are ALL having a conversation about the length of the cabletow. Right now, at this very second, I'd say it's very long and endless.....


But we are NOT all having a conversation about _"the length of the cable-tow"._  There is at least one of us who is actually deviating from that "conversation" and asking _what it is, why it is and how it is used.  _And the questions are NOT being addressed in your contribution to this "conversation".


----------



## Bro. A (Mar 24, 2019)

coachn said:


> Yeah, I totally get that you think that I think  that.
> 
> Actually, we all do NOT know what the "text book" definition is.  That's the entire point of my responses. I thought you'd get that point without me having to point it out.
> 
> ...



Ok... you see it one way and I see it another.... you have a great day Brother.


----------



## Winter (Mar 24, 2019)

Bro. A said:


> Ok... you see it one way and I see it another.... you have a great day Brother.



I see some of the points you might be trying to make, Brother. But if you post something in a discussion forum you probably should be prepared to defend it or expound upon it.  Your reply is a pat response that does nothing to move the exchange of ideas forward and makes the implication that you are unwilling to discuss the difference in views.



Bro. A said:


> Yes!!! The Cabletow shouldn't have a length. It should be endless.



You said our Cable Tow should have no length, be endless. Are you implying everything in our lives should come second to Freemasonry?  While I like the sentiment, it is directly refuted by the teaching every one of our Apprentices receives in the first degree.


----------



## Bro. A (Mar 24, 2019)

Winter said:


> I see some of the points you might be trying to make, Brother. But if you post something in a discussion forum you probably should be prepared to defend it or expound upon it.  Your reply is a pat response that does nothing to move the exchange of ideas forward and makes the implication that you are unwilling to discuss the difference in views.
> 
> 
> 
> You said our Cable Tow should have no length, be endless. Are you implying everything in our lives should come second to Freemasonry?  While I like the sentiment, it is directly refuted by the teaching every one of our Apprentices receives in the first degree.



I asked a question and got some pretty good responses. I wasn't unwilling to discuss the topic but I'm not going to sit here and argue about something that I've already addressed. I see the cabletow in a certain way and others may see it in another. And thats fine. Masonry is interpreted and understood in many different ways. Is your way of thinking right or wrong? Is my way of thinking right or wrong? 
And not once did I say Masonry comes before anything else. My personal life comes before Freemasonry.


----------



## coachn (Mar 24, 2019)

Bro. A said:


> Ok... you see it one way and I see it another.... you have a great day Brother.


And what actual ways are they?


----------



## coachn (Mar 24, 2019)

Winter said:


> > Bro. A said: ↑
> > Ok... you see it one way and I see it another.... you have a great day Brother.
> 
> 
> I see some of the points you might be trying to make, Brother. But if you post something in a discussion forum you probably should be prepared to defend it or expound upon it.  *Your reply is a pat response that does nothing to move the exchange of ideas forward and makes the implication that you are unwilling to discuss the difference in views*.


^^THIS^^




> > Bro. A said: ↑
> > Yes!!! The Cabletow shouldn't have a length. It should be endless.
> 
> 
> You said our Cable Tow should have no length, be endless. Are you implying everything in our lives should come second to Freemasonry?  *While I like the sentiment, it is directly refuted by the teaching every one of our Apprentices receives in the first degree.*


^^AND THIS^^


----------



## Bro. A (Mar 24, 2019)

coachn said:


> ^^THIS^^
> View attachment 6505
> 
> ^^AND THIS^^
> View attachment 6505



If you're trying to get me to argue with you and see things YOUR way. It won't work brother.


----------



## Winter (Mar 24, 2019)

Bro. A said:


> And not once did I say Masonry comes before anything else. My personal life comes before Freemasonry.



It is exactly what you said.  While the *length *of the cable tow must be personally interpreted, the *definition *is constant.  It is the length you are willing to go for Masonry.  Your exact words are that it should have no length, implying nothing comes before the Craft.  But you also said your personal life comes before Freemasonry.  I think before we debate the length of the cable tow, we should see how far apart our definition of the cable tow is.  If I may ask, what Masonic body do you belong to and how do they define the Cable Tow?  If we compare that to the definition of other bodies, maybe we can see where we are disconnecting.


----------



## coachn (Mar 24, 2019)

Bro. A said:


> If you're trying to *get me to argue with you* and *see things YOUR way*. It won't work brother.


^^This^^ is a Red Herring response...

If you earnest believe that I am trying to get you to do anything other than _clarify what I have asked you to clarify_, you are misleading yourself.

But, go ahead... avoid the very thing that would enlighten us as to the very core of your awareness and understanding by throwing superficialities, distractions and accusations forth instead of well-founded and authentic light.


----------



## coachn (Mar 24, 2019)

Winter said:


> It is exactly what you said.  While the *length *of the cable tow must be personally interpreted, the *definition *is constant.  It is the length you are willing to go for Masonry.  *Your exact words are that it should have no length, implying nothing comes before the Craft.*  But you also said your personal life comes before Freemasonry.  *I think before we debate the length of the cable tow, we should see how far apart our definition of the cable tow is.*  If I may ask, *what Masonic body do you belong to and how do they define the Cable Tow?*  If we compare that to the definition of other bodies, maybe we can see where we are disconnecting.


^^AND THIS TOO!^^


----------



## Bro. A (Mar 24, 2019)

coachn said:


> ^^This^^ is a Red Herring response...
> 
> If you earnest believe that I am trying to get you to do anything other than _clarify what I have asked you to clarify_, you are misleading yourself.
> 
> ...


----------



## coachn (Mar 24, 2019)

Bro. A said:


> Look gentleman,


<sigh> a salutation setting the stage for a dismissive exit...


Bro. A said:


> I'm not going to keep going on with this.


Good choice Bro.!  You can't dig yourself out of a hole of contradictions once you've dug yourself into it.


Bro. A said:


> Brother Winter and Brother Coachn, you guys have a great day and bless your hearts.


And there ya go... offering insincere platitudes as he exits.


----------



## Keith C (Mar 26, 2019)

We have two definitions to the "length" of our Cable Tow.  

1) Is 3 miles from the place of meeting of your Lodge.  This is the distance within which you are obligated to attend Lodge if summoned.  "Except in case of sickness or some other unavoidable occurrence"  This is explicit and likely should be revised due to automobiles, trains, busses, Uber etc vs walking or a horse as when it was put in place!  

2) Is the allegorical definition, as in putting service to God, yourself, your family and your work before Masonic commitments.

One is concrete and the other requires thought.  The one that requires though also varies from Brother to Brother, but it is certainly impossible for it to be infinite.


----------



## coachn (Mar 26, 2019)

Keith C said:


> We have two definitions to the "length" of our Cable Tow.
> 
> 1) Is 3 miles from the place of meeting of your Lodge.  This is the distance within which you are obligated to attend Lodge if summoned.  "Except in case of sickness or some other unavoidable occurrence"  This is explicit and likely should be revised due to automobiles, trains, busses, Uber etc vs walking or a horse as when it was put in place!
> 
> ...


#1 has been updated to an hour's transit based upon the 3 mile limit being walked and taking about an hour.  
#2 is spot on! Suffer any one of these and you have allowed a Brother to walk in between your three great lights and you.


----------



## Keith C (Mar 27, 2019)

coachn said:


> #1 has been updated to an hour's transit based upon the 3 mile limit being walked and taking about an hour.



Well, I am glad to hear it has been updated in some Jurisdictions, here in "Ancient" PA it is still 3 miles!


----------



## Brother_Steve (Mar 30, 2019)

I took this as a joke post that went over everyone's head.

How long is a cabletow?

As long as it wants to be.


----------



## acjohnson53 (Mar 30, 2019)

As much as I travel abroad, no matter where I'm at Brothers always extend them selves when I'm in their town or city, So it's not a question on how long a Brothers Cabletow is. We should our obligation...Especially that last part of the third degree...


----------



## Warrior1256 (Apr 1, 2019)

Brother_Steve said:


> How long is a cabletow?
> 
> As long as it wants to be.


Lol!


----------



## Luigi Visentin (May 22, 2019)

In Prichard's "Masonry dissected" this lenght appears in a fully different meaning:
"_All this under no less Penalty than to have my Throat cut, my Tongue taken from the Roof of my Mouth, my Heart pluck’d from under my Left Breast, them to be buried in the Sands of the Seas, the Length of a Cable-rope from Shore, where the Tide ebbs and flows twice in 24 Hours, my Body to be burnt to Ashes, my Ashes to be scatter’d upon the Face of the Earth, so that there shall be no more Remembrance of me among Masons. _"
It was indeed a part of punishment to indicate a ground not consecrated. It comes from a Middle Age belief that excommunicated persons could not be buried on the ground because the solid ground would have spit them out.  A tidal plain was not solid ground and neither "sea", therefore was considered a good solution. In other words the crime or revealing something of Freemasonry was considered equal one o the crime which cause the Church to excommunicate a man.


----------



## David612 (May 22, 2019)

A cable tow and a cables length are different things-
the latter is a nautical unit of measure and is equal to 100 fathoms.

As for crimes bad enough to warrant excommunication, In the Middle Ages there are records of slugs and other animals being tried and excommunicated for crimes like ruining gardens and crops..


----------



## Keith C (May 22, 2019)

Luigi Visentin said:


> In Prichard's "Masonry dissected" this lenght appears in a fully different meaning:
> 
> ...
> 
> It was indeed a part of punishment to indicate a ground not consecrated. It comes from a Middle Age belief that excommunicated persons could not be buried on the ground because the solid ground would have spit them out.  A tidal plain was not solid ground and neither "sea", therefore was considered a good solution. In other words the crime or revealing something of Freemasonry was considered equal one o the crime which cause the Church to excommunicate a man.



Are you a Freemason?  If so, what Lodge and Grand Lodge do you work under?


----------



## Luigi Visentin (May 23, 2019)

Keith C said:


> Are you a Freemason? If so, what Lodge and Grand Lodge do you work under?


Yes Officer! I'm of the Grande Oriente d'Italia, Orient of Milan, Iniziated by the Lodge n° 6... ehi! I have the right to call my lawyer! I know my rights!

Seriously speaking, don't you think you are a little to abrupt on your question?


----------



## David612 (May 23, 2019)

Luigi Visentin said:


> Yes Officer! I'm of the Grande Oriente d'Italia, Orient of Milan, Iniziated by the Lodge n° 6... ehi! I have the right to call my lawyer! I know my rights!
> 
> Seriously speaking, don't you think you are a little to abrupt on your question?



You make it sound like he’s asking for your bank info, it’s a pretty straightforward question to someone you don’t know to be a mason.


----------



## coachn (May 23, 2019)

On the other hand, with 104 posts and a membership here since May 12, 2016, you'd have thought the question would have been asked sooner.


----------



## Keith C (May 23, 2019)

Luigi Visentin said:


> Yes Officer! I'm of the Grande Oriente d'Italia, Orient of Milan, Iniziated by the Lodge n° 6... ehi! I have the right to call my lawyer! I know my rights!
> 
> Seriously speaking, don't you think you are a little to abrupt on your question?



Since you wrote the portion of your original post that I omitted,  and in most jurisdictions I am aware of the writing of such invokes the penalty you reference I though asking if you were a Mason was a valid question.

Edit - Asking Uncle Google I discovered that your Grand Lodge is not recognized by the UGLE and is not recognized by my Grand Lodge, so perhaps you are not bound by the same Oath and Obligation as other Freemasons.


----------



## Luigi Visentin (May 23, 2019)

David612 said:


> You make it sound like he’s asking for your bank info, it’s a pretty straightforward question to someone you don’t know to be a mason.


In Italy three questions one after the other doesn't sound "friendly", but more as an inquisition.  In any case I have updated my profile, therefore you can find the information you need there. The nickname I use is not the real name as it is the one for publication and this is the only information I do not put in a forum for personal reasons.

With reference to my post I have quoted a part of a famous work of 1730 that any scholar of Freemasony (Brother or not) knows and available in many books, publications and websites (Masonic or not).

I have not written if it is still used or not and I will not either answer to the question if in Italy is used or not or which is the Oath and Obligations we take. It as simple citation and there are others about document in the past that refers to this "symbol".


----------



## David612 (May 23, 2019)

Luigi Visentin said:


> In Italy three questions one after the other doesn't sound "friendly", but more as an inquisition.  In any case I have updated my profile, therefore you can find the information you need there. The nickname I use is not the real name as it is the one for publication and this is the only information I do not put in a forum for personal reasons.
> 
> With reference to my post I have quoted a part of a famous work of 1730 that any scholar of Freemasony (Brother or not) knows and available in many books, publications and websites (Masonic or not).
> 
> I have not written if it is still used or not and I will not either answer to the question if in Italy is used or not or which is the Oath and Obligations we take. It as simple citation and there are others abut document in the past that refers to this "symbol".


Not sure what it’s currency has to do with anything, but as per my above post a cables length and a cable tow aren’t the same thing.


----------



## Luigi Visentin (May 23, 2019)

In order to go deeper in the examination of this matter, my suggestion is to read "An Examination of Early Masonic Catechisms" of H. Carr. At question 14, which illustrates various different cases in which the terms "cable rope", "cable lengtht" and "Cable-tow" appears with different meaning. He grouped all the different versions together even if in some cases they clearly seem to refer to different thing.


----------



## David612 (May 23, 2019)

Perhaps then the meaning of the term is not the reason they are grouped together and it would be erroneous to assume them to mean the same.
I will simply say a cables length is an established unit of measure and a cable tow is not.


----------



## coachn (May 23, 2019)

David612 said:


> Perhaps then the meaning of the term is not the reason they are grouped together and it would be erroneous to assume them to mean the same.
> I will simply say a cables length is an established unit of measure and a cable tow is not.


lol... Perhaps?!?!?!


----------



## Glen Cook (May 23, 2019)

Keith C said:


> Since you wrote the portion of your original post that I omitted,  and in most jurisdictions I am aware of the writing of such invokes the penalty you reference I though asking if you were a Mason was a valid question.
> 
> Edit - Asking Uncle Google I discovered that your Grand Lodge is not recognized by the UGLE and is not recognized by my Grand Lodge, so perhaps you are not bound by the same Oath and Obligation as other Freemasons.


Actually, I show that your GL does recognize GO Italy, as do most US GLs. 

And, even regular GLs vary in their obligation.


----------



## Elexir (May 23, 2019)

Keith C said:


> Since you wrote the portion of your original post that I omitted,  and in most jurisdictions I am aware of the writing of such invokes the penalty you reference I though asking if you were a Mason was a valid question.
> 
> Edit - Asking Uncle Google I discovered that your Grand Lodge is not recognized by the UGLE and is not recognized by my Grand Lodge, so perhaps you are not bound by the same Oath and Obligation as other Freemasons.



In Italy there is a problem with using this logic as UGLE and most european GLs recognises the regular GL of Italy and the US GLs recognises the Grand Orient.
When it comes to recognition you should never trust anything other then your own GLs lists of recognised GLs.


----------



## Keith C (May 24, 2019)

Glen Cook said:


> Actually, I show that your GL does recognize GO Italy, as do most US GLs.
> 
> And, even regular GLs vary in their obligation.



Interesting.  Thanks for the clarification.  But even more reason not to write what was written.


----------



## Glen Cook (May 24, 2019)

Keith C said:


> Interesting.  Thanks for the clarification.  But even more reason not to write what was written.


He quoted from a well known, centuries old expose’. By objecting, you’ve confirmed it is a current ritual. 

Remember, what is secret in your jurisdiction, may not be secret in others.


----------



## coachn (May 24, 2019)

Glen Cook said:


> ...By objecting, you’ve confirmed it is a current ritual.
> 
> Remember, what is secret in your jurisdiction, may not be secret in others.


<cough> Some things never change... https://buildinghiram.blogspot.com/2015/04/a-brother-asks-when-someone-posts.html


----------

