# One Day Journey



## Nemesis242 (Jun 17, 2011)

I understand some of the concerns that are being voiced over One Day Journeys, what is not being taken in consideration is the alarming rate of the loss of our Masonic Brothers. On Oct. 30, 2010 a massive recruitment was done in PA where an initiate could become a Master Mason, Receive 32 Degree, and become a Shriner all in one day, there was 1,937 Initiates. Sounds like a lot but there are more statistics that frighten me more. In 2009 alone, there was a total loss of 2,918 Brothers for various reasons (death, illness, etc.) and in 2010 a total gain of 449, the first membership growth in 50 years!! That's Frightening!! If these journeys are not taken there won't be anyone to pass the knowledge & skills on to cause not enough members are joining. I too just was Raised in a One Day Journey on 6-11-2011 but I have every intention of getting all knowledge & skills being offered to me. When I look at the other Brothers in my Lodge I see the past (meaning none of them are young) I myself am 47 years old and most of them are in their late 50's & 60's and retired. The younger crowd aren't interested in joining an that scares me. If someone else has some input on this I would love to read it. Please don't be too quick to judge. Good Luck Brothers!!


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## nwendele (Jun 17, 2011)

I hate to hear that, and I know this has been discussed many times before.  My lodge is in a town of less than 100,000 people, and I know we do* at least* 1 EA a week, and have over 350 members.  We have a solid core of every age demographic.  I hold nothing against ya'll for having to do this, I am sad to see it get to that point.  Maybe letting it happen once will get in a core group of dynamic people who will grow masonry in your area.  If changes are not made to fix the problems that caused this decline in the first place, nothing will get better.  

I am 32, and far from the youngest member of our lodge.  I like history, the stability of tradition, and trying to be a better man.  I knew masonry had something to do with all three of these.  I tried it out and discovered so much more.  What has been done to get the word out about what Masonry does in your area?  If young men think Masonry is just and old mens club, I would think the lodges are not doing enough out in the community to change that perception.


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## cemab4y (Jun 17, 2011)

I used to work for the US Census Bureau (Statistical Data Collection). The demographic trends in Masonry, are frightening. In 2009 (Last year national statistics were available), of the 51 Grand Lodges listed, (This does not include Prince Hall), 48 Grand Lodges showed a net decrease in membership. When your average age is over 65, and the human life span is 73, you can see, that in 8 years, you are in real trouble.

The trends can be reversed, if the lodges/Grand Lodges choose to turn it around!

-Statewide open houses. Already Massachusetts and Maryland have a state wide open house. Every lodge in the state is open on a Saturday, and the event is announced on statewide media. 

-Increased internet presence. New York has precise instructions on how to locate and petition a lodge, and a downloadable petition form.

-Recruiting! Every Mason should be able to invite good men, to join our fraternity. The states that have prohibitions against recruiting, are digging their own grave. Some states even forbid the " 2B1 ASK1" bumper sticker.

You can go on whistling past the graveyard, or turn Masonry around.


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## nwendele (Jun 17, 2011)

I posted what attracted me to Masonry.  I will talk to some of the even younger brothers in our lodge to see what really brought them in.  I strongly feel it can be turned around without such drastic measures as one day journeys.  However, my lodge is in good shape, so it is a bit easier for me to say!  Several older lodges around here have the same issues, but many younger Masons are joining and have plural memberships.  It is a great temporary patch, but again, it has to be the local community to save each lodge.  If the lodge is not known and respected (but not intimidated by!) by the local community, it will die.


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## Bro. Stewart P.M. (Jun 17, 2011)

Again I will voice that I am openly against the "One Day" formatted festivals, and especially the "At Sight" option. To me this cheapens the whole process and leaves me feeing dirty.

This fraternity has lasted from the early ages in time not because we let "everyone" though the West Gate. Our rituals serve several purposes, first to teach the moral lessons by signs and words; secondly the proficiencies protect us from those who do not wish to "work" or put forth effort for something that in my opinion is Earned. The whole process is established based on experience, trial and error, and welcomed through it's doors the greatest men of all times.

I suppose, point blank what I am trying to say is this. One Day Masons should be held accountable to the same standards as the status quo as far as proficiency. Get all of your degrees in one day, fine. However, you should still learn the work and be tested as everyone else otherwise no one is "equal". Equality is what makes this Ancient Fraternity unique, and worth while.

Every organization witnesses some form of membership decline from time to time, it is a naturally occurring cycle. When there is a decline, there eventually is an increase. Time is the only variable.


So may it also be noted, my opinions expressed are not meant to offend any of those contrary. These are simply my opinions. Those who have gone the one day route are indeed my equals as the Laws and Edicts state, I accept as required to do so. I am after all meeting and parting on the level...


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## M.M.Wood (Jun 17, 2011)

I would have to agree with Brother Stewart. I am also openly against the "One day" initiative. This really takes the journey out of things. I understand that we have a membership issue and can't say that I have an answer. I do however have some suggestions as to contributing factors. The men out there are not reaching out to the younger generation and letting them know that we are here to make them better. Also the generation these days have a lot of men out there that may not have not had a stable father figure in their life to guide them. I can honestly say that I am 33 years old and was raised by my mother. My parents divorced when I was 9 but my Dad was always there for me. Not in the capacity that he should have all the time but that is neither here nor there. I was attracted to Masonry out of curiosity and doing my own research. I have found since being raised that not all brother are as friendly, open and accepting of the younger generation. I feel like if you want to increase the numbers we need to spread the good word if you will. I am not implying that Lodges are not out there trying to increase membership but I think that actually talking to young guys and seeing what is on their mind would help get them interested. Sorry if I went on and on but I am passionate about the subject.


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## Brent Heilman (Jun 17, 2011)

I can't honestly say that I am totally against "One-Day classes" but I would not want that for myself. In the course of the last few months as I embarked on this journey I thought that might be an option for me but as I travel more and receive more light I realize that the "normal" process is what makes this journey so special. I know that there a great many Brothers out there that were raised in these one-day classes and the Fraternity is better off having them. There is at least one of the more public figures in Masonry that was a part of a one-day class. His passion and knowledge of Masonry is as great as a person that went through the degrees the traditional way. If I would have gone through one would I have the same passion for Masonry as I do now? I would like to think so. I feel that if a person truly wants what this great Fraternity has to offer he will do the work regardless of whether he went the traditional way or the one-day way. Again, it would not be my choice but I can see how it might be for someone else.


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## cemab4y (Jun 17, 2011)

Some rural lodges in Texas, are surviving, only because some Masons hold plural memberships, and "commute" between the different lodges. This is a "ticking time bomb"! When these men with plural memberships, cease to participate in Masonry, throught retirement, transfer, resignations, or death, then ALL of the lodges where they hold memberships, will cease to function. 

Masonry can grow, and reverse the trends, and not necessarily have to rely on one-day classes.


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## JJones (Jun 17, 2011)

It's about quality of membership, not quantity.  People keep mentioning declining membership as though it signals the end of masonry but I don't feel that's the case at all.

Out of 1.937 candidates, I wonder how many of them will actually be active?  I'm also curious how you are supposed to properly investigate so many potential members without compromising your west gate.

I'm against this.  I feel they cheapen the fraternity and do more harm than good.  An active lodge shouldn't have trouble with membership if they are really out there in the public eye and involved with the community.  That's my opinion though.



> Some rural lodges in Texas, are surviving, only because some Masons hold plural memberships, and "commute" between the different lodges. This is a "ticking time bomb"! When these men with plural memberships, cease to participate in Masonry, throught retirement, transfer, resignations, or death, then ALL of the lodges where they hold memberships, will cease to function.
> 
> Masonry can grow, and reverse the trends, and not necessarily have to rely on one-day classes.



I'm going to probably sound like an ogre here but I think there are a lot of lodges that should probably just consolidate.  I could add more to that but I'm really treading carefully here!

I agree masonry can grow and I believe in parts of the state it is growing, that certainly seems to be the case here.  I don't believe there's any such thing as a 'quick fix' though, it'll take lots of activity and elbow grease.


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## kwilbourn (Jun 17, 2011)

For me personally, I have found that I frequently enjoy life's journeys more than the destination.  A one day class, or even a reduction in the proficiency requirements would remove some of that enjoyment for me.  I am young in my journey, but hold the work I have done with my mentors in high regard; there are few experiences that can compare to the feeling of slowly weaving the lessons into the tapestry of your life while becoming closer to your Brothers.

As others have mentioned, if you make 2,000 new Masons, but fail to engage and retain many of those men in Masonry it is a disservice to those men and the Fraternity.


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## Benton (Jun 17, 2011)

JJones said:


> I'm going to probably sound like an ogre here but I think there are a lot of lodges that should probably just consolidate. I could add more to that but I'm really treading carefully here!



I'm inclined to agree. Having been made a Master Mason very recently, it's still kind of ridiculous to me how many bodies are supported solely through plural memberships. As an outsider looking in, it's simply a bandage on a deep wound. It's kind of silly.


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## cacarter (Jun 18, 2011)

I don't like the idea of one day classes, but I can see why some Grand Lodges do them.  I applaud you for not being satisfied with what was given to you so quickly, and wanting more light.  

I've heard that one of the biggest problems Texas, and I'm sure most states, has is the retention of candidates once they've been initiated as EAs.  Either the lessons are too difficult, other constraints come up, or worse they get in and realize that masonry isn't what they thought it was and want nothing more to do with it.  My concern is how many one day MM's get all of the light and then realize this isn't what they wanted.  The more work I've put into something, the harder I find to give up on it.

We could make the topic of rural lodges an entirely different thread.


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## S.Courtemanche (Jun 18, 2011)

Bro. Stewart said:


> Again I will voice that I am openly against the "One Day" formatted festivals, and especially the "At Sight" option. To me this cheapens the whole process and leaves me feeing dirty.
> 
> This fraternity has lasted from the early ages in time not because we let "everyone" though the West Gate. Our rituals serve several purposes, first to teach the moral lessons by signs and words; secondly the proficiencies protect us from those who do not wish to "work" or put forth effort for something that in my opinion is Earned. The whole process is established based on experience, trial and error, and welcomed through it's doors the greatest men of all times.
> 
> ...



Agreed 100%


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## jwhoff (Jun 18, 2011)

I don't feel masonry will ever die.  The light can never be extinguished.  Ideals are stronger than bullets or bricks.  Sure, we may not be able to afford either but is that our quest?

All said, brethren today have not been faced with the ultimate test of survival or betrayal. Or have we?

There's so much to consider.


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## Bro. Stewart P.M. (Jun 19, 2011)

*Re: you cannot destroy the strongman's goods...*



Lastone said:


> this may not be a bad thing, what fruit has masonry produce in the last 50 years. legacy masons, like selfish Kings


 
I do not think that it is SO selfish to expect that everyone be expected to Travel the same Journey. I have already stated that I accept the "One Day" Mason format, as long as those Brethren are held to the same exacting standards of proficiency. If we allow these Brothers to take a "One Day" festival, and not require them to learn the work then they IMO are not meeting upon the Level of Internal Qualifications with the thousands of other Brethren of this great and honorable Fraternity.

Remember this phrase: "Meet upon the Level, Act upon the Plumb, and Part upon the Square"


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## Bro. Stewart P.M. (Jun 19, 2011)

Lastone said:


> I agree ancient ways Are the high road. only god is able to do that 1 day  thing. masonry is not fast food. it takes more time to learn to fish. and that is level, we act on the square, then, behold, part on the plumb. we cannot make a fellow worthy.


 
Amen Brother, well said!


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## M.Prejean (Jun 19, 2011)

Well said indeed, Lastone!
The heart of this matter seems to be the numbers. Being new to Masonry, please enlighten me. Has a consensus been reached that has declared our current membership to be the minimal or optimal? What makes us feel the need for constant growth? Again, I'm new, but has the fraternity financially extended itself to the point where we require the dues of a determined number of brothers? I hope not & doubt that's the case. I'd rather think that its our fear of losing our beloved fraternity through decline that has us willing to take what appear to me to be drastic measures.
I'm a bit of an optimist and an accused dreamer, so take this for whatever its worth. I'm inclined to trust in the foundation of Freemasonry. It has shown a steady light and been a beacon throughout the ages. Lets not take down the West Gate just to oil the hinges.


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## LCWebb (Jun 20, 2011)

Why is it necessary in a one day process to also become a shriner and 32 degree srm? I am very new to the Fraternity and while I plan on joining both shrine and Sr there is something to be said for the journey.


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## Bro. Stewart P.M. (Jun 20, 2011)

LCWebb said:


> Why is it necessary in a one day process to also become a shriner and 32 degree srm? I am very new to the Fraternity and while I plan on joining both shrine and Sr there is something to be said for the journey.


 
This basically creates a "ready made" Shriner. The Shrine requires that a petitioner not only be a Master Mason but also either a 32 degree SR Mason or Templar Knight of the YR. This smells to me of this exact process which Lodges in the past have been put in hauc over.


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## Traveling Man (Jun 20, 2011)

Bro. Stewart said:


> This basically creates a "ready made" Shriner. The Shrine requires that a petitioner not only be a Master Mason but also either a 32 degree SR Mason or Templar Knight of the YR. This smells to me of this exact process which Lodges in the past have been put in hauc over.




Correction if I may, Bro. Stewart:



> Imperial Shrine by-laws, Article 23 states
> Membership Requirements as:
> 
> a.) Prerequisite. A temple may not accept a petition from a candidate unless he is in good standing as a Master Mason of a lodge recognized by or in amity with the Conference of Grand Masters of North America.


 Just a Master Mason; nothing more, nothing less is required. (And this too will change).

I'm not trying to be a $mart a$$, I just thought you might want to know...


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## Benton (Jun 20, 2011)

The Shrine requirement that a man be a Knight Templar or a 32nd Degree Scottish Rite Mason is, as was pointed out above, no longer in effect.


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## Nemesis242 (Jun 20, 2011)

I reiterate doesn't  50 years of membership declination speak for itself?? If that isn't a time to get alarmed, when is?? Just my humble opinion.


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## nwendele (Jun 20, 2011)

Nemesis242 said:


> I reiterate doesn't 50 years of membership declination speak for itself?? If that isn't a time to get alarmed, when is?? Just my humble opinion.



Of course it it time to be alarmed!  However, it should be a call to arms for Brother Masons to get in gear and work harder! Make Masonry more visible in their communities, wear their jewelry, be proud, and answer questions when asked and refer good men in the right direction.  You can't make men join without recruiting by just hanging out in Lodge with your Brothers.

If your classic car is running rough, do you pour more love and hard work into it, or trade it in on a new Honda?  One day journeys are a path do a different Masonry, not fixing the one we love.


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## Kenneth Lottman (Jun 21, 2011)

Forgive me brethren i have only been a MM for a few months but here are my 2 cents.... I believe a "one day journey" cheapens our fraternity! It took me a year to complete my 3 degrees alot of time and effort was put into becoming a MM and it will be a year I will never forget! If this is their solution to increase membership in our great fraternity they have missed the mark big time. 

I remember growing up in Chicago I would see emblems on cars, the masons and shriners were in every parade and brothers decked out in hats, rings and shirts.  I rarely ever see this anymore and this is what we have lost. We are no longer a presence in our community anymore. We are just a building with a logo on the front. 

This has to change or we will continue to see the decline. We need to find new ways to connect to the communities that we live in and show our neighbors what we are all about!


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## Bro. Stewart P.M. (Jun 21, 2011)

Traveling Man said:


> Correction if I may, Bro. Stewart:
> 
> Just a Master Mason; nothing more, nothing less is required. (And this too will change).
> 
> I'm not trying to be a $mart a$$, I just thought you might want to know...



As much as I would love to be perfect I am not. At one time this was a requirement of the organization. As to the "and this too will change", this will (if it happens) become the worst mistake that the AAONMS ever makes. IMO.



Benton said:


> The Shrine requirement that a man be a Knight Templar or a 32nd Degree Scottish Rite Mason is, as was pointed out above, no longer in effect.


 
I stand corrected.


My previous statement appears to be out of date. However, the facts presented did occur in the past was not widely accepted by the GL's.


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## Traveling Man (Jun 21, 2011)

> As much as I would love to be perfect I am not. At one time this was a requirement of the organization. As to the "and this too will change", this will (if it happens) become the worst mistake that the AAONMS ever makes. IMO.



None of us are perfect, that wasn't the point. That's why I stated the part of being a $mart a$$; sorry!

I too was against that change; but things becoming what they are now and will be, they might not have a choice. As mentioned here things need to change and change fast, if we intend to arrest this situation. I'm with you brother.


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## rhitland (Jun 21, 2011)

Nemesis242 said:


> I reiterate doesn't  50 years of membership declination speak for itself?? If that isn't a time to get alarmed, when is?? Just my humble opinion.



What if the problem was the large numbers we had 50 years ago and Masonry is just correcting itself?


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## rhitland (Jun 21, 2011)

*Re: you cannot destroy the strongman's goods...*



Bro. Stewart said:


> I have already stated that I accept the "One Day" Mason format, as long as those Brethren are held to the same exacting standards of proficiency.



FYI as well Brother Stewart is that Texas is one of the few states which still require memory work to progress through degrees.  Something to be proud of as Texans though is that no other jurisdiction in the world has to memorize as much as we do in our catechism but the standards of being proficent do vary greatly.


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## M.M.Wood (Jun 21, 2011)

I can honestly say that I am proud of the journey,proud to have learned the work purely by memory and honestly feel that it is what makes us who we are.


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## jwhoff (Jun 21, 2011)

LCWebb said:


> Why is it necessary in a one day process to also become a shriner and 32 degree srm? I am very new to the Fraternity and while I plan on joining both shrine and Sr there is something to be said for the journey.



Most reunions for Scottish Rite are two-day events.  Eight to 10 degrees are bestowed.  However, like anything else if you desire the light from the further degrees you must apply yourself and study.  Each month most of the valleys of Texas have a study class which goes over the 29 degrees in some detail.  Also, there are Craftsman I and II programs to provide more light.  Guthrie, Oklahoma offers a series of courses in its masonic university.  Too, you can simply attend enough reunions to see all 29 degrees.  Short of that, you can spend a long weekend up in Guthrie and see all or most.

Light is everywhere for those who look.  Unfortunately, the greater percentage of appendant body masons make no greater effort there than in their blue lodges.  And, brother, it shows.


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## JJones (Jun 22, 2011)

I'm not alarmed at all, Freemasonry is still the same regardless of how many people practice it, be it 100 or 100,000 people.  Honestly, I'm probably a minority here, I'd rather see membership dip to low numbers rather than cheapen the craft for everyone by having one day journies.

Masonry is about learning how to better ourselves as men and part of that process involves everyone going through the rituals and learning the appropriate memory work, at a minimum.  I understand in today's society we tend to think more of something is a good thing but that just doesn't apply here.  If someone wants to join the lodge then they should go through each degree individually and learn the work associated with it, this is a firm belief of mine.

If someone doesn't have the time or patience to do so then it's best to wait and reconsider joining another time.


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## Benton (Jun 22, 2011)

JJones said:


> Honestly, I'm probably a minority here, I'd rather see membership dip to low numbers rather than cheapen the craft for everyone by having one day journies.



You're definitely not the only one.


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## Traveling Man (Jun 22, 2011)

JJones said:


> If someone doesn't have the time or patience to do so then it's best to wait and reconsider joining another time.



And maybe some should realise that Masonry is not for everyone; the time, discipline and dedication are not what all individuals can achieve. Then there are others whom just want to become Shriners that will never set foot in a blue lodge again (let alone their mother lodge). I recently was asked to sign a petition of a candidate I knew that lacked the discipline and diligence it required for the work; I passed signing his petition, he has been an E.A. for 2 1/2 years... He'd be an excellent McMason!


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## Bro. Stewart P.M. (Jun 23, 2011)

"McMason"

I like the usage of the new noun. I find it very fitting.


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## jwhoff (Jun 26, 2011)

It's always disappointing to hear a man prove by his own words and actions that he has absolutely no idea of the principles of the brotherhood he is so proud of being a member.  Very disappointing.


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## Zack (Jun 26, 2011)

*Re: you cannot destroy the strongman's goods...*



rhitland said:


> FYI as well Brother Stewart is that Texas is one of the few states which still require memory work to progress through degrees.  Something to be proud of as Texans though is that no other jurisdiction in the world has to memorize as much as we do in our catechism but the standards of being proficent do vary greatly.



In my jurisdiction, Florida, the EA catechism consists of 1,808 words.
                                     the FC is                             1,490 words.
                                     the MM is                            1,770 words.
                                                                              ----------------
                                                                              5,068 total.

If Texas has more than that....man, that is a mouthful of words.


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## jwhoff (Jun 26, 2011)

I'm in Texas and I only counted the total number of questions and answers.  WOW!  1808 words.  

That's some serious delving into the work there brother.

WOW!

:001_cool:


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## Bro_Vick (Jun 28, 2011)

One Day Classes and a Mason at-sight have been around for as long as the fraternity has, it isn't anything new, the strict memorization methods because a trademark of the fraternity in the last two centuries.  I mean Joesph Smith (Founder of the LDS) for instance was made a Mason "at-sight", it's been happening for a long time.

The one day classes also help struggling lodges get new people through the degrees to become active participants.  Celebrated Masonic author Chris Hodapp went through the EA in a traditional manner, then his lodge was having difficulty putting together a team for the FC, as time was running short they sent him to a one day class, he is now one of the most sought after speakers and have been on the Discovery channel and History channel discussing the rich history of Freemasonry.

Using the term "McMason" is disrespectful to brothers like Bro Chris, and I respectfully ask that it not be used.

The fraternity grew entirely too large in the 1940s and 1950s the previous generation of Freemasons warn the GI Generation brothers that things are getting too big too fast and that no one was watching the West Gate, the fraternity was never meant to be that large.  For the last 30 years Freemasonry has been feeling a sharp decline and it will continue to decline as there is a generational gap between the current young crop of Freemasons and members of the Silent Generation will sometime conflict as the Boomers abandoned anything their father had anything to do with (though some are petitioning Freemasonry now as the approach retirement).  This large gap can sometimes make communication difficult and also have a hard time finding similar interests and hobbies (It's not impossible, and I know it happens all the time).

Every organization has it's challenges, and I think most of the men here are very well aware of the challenges facing our fraternity.  I don't claim to know what Freemasonry is like in Dallas let alone Pennsylvania, and put faith that those lodges and their Grand Lodge is doing what it can to not only preserve the integrity and the teachings of Freemasonry, but are meeting the needs of it's brothers and candidates.

S&F,
-Bro Vick


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## tmcguire (Jun 30, 2011)

Cemaby,

Where did you source your data for the demographic trends in Masonry? I find this kind of thing very interesting.


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## rhitland (Jul 1, 2011)

*Re: you cannot destroy the strongman's goods...*



Zack said:


> In my jurisdiction, Florida, the EA catechism consists of 1,808 words.
> the FC is                             1,490 words.
> the MM is                            1,770 words.
> ----------------
> ...



We have a few more than that so I have been told but I have never counted them myself.  By my rough estimate we have around 3200 hundred words for the EA and about 1,500 for the FC and around the same for the Masters.  THis is a really rough estimate and I would need to talk to some old timers to get a definite answer on this but I would be willing to bet my estimate is a little low.
We have a saying here in the Lone Star State "Everything is Bigger" and we try our darndest to hold true to that, for better or worse!


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## Traveling Man (Jul 3, 2011)

First off, I owe an apology to those brethren that choose to take umbrage with my derogatory term (which I will not use again).  Although context is everything, it was meant to be humorous in that context. (See guarding the west gate allusion and that particular candidate.)

Making a mason on sight is truly a grand masters prerogative and in no way has ever been meant to be construed into ODC s. (If one wants to use it as a crutch, so be it.) Examples of that particular unique function are Bros. such as Bro. Richard Dreyfuss et al.  Masonic Dictionary, Masons made at sight  If one notes the candidates listed are not candidates of the ODC phenomenon that we are witnessing today, this function was reserved. (And in some jurisdictions both are deemed as irregular and illegal)

One has to wonder if a candidate does not have the time for the traditional IPR and mentoring, (the very foundation of our institution) will he have time for masonry?  I also wonder what dates are imprinted on the inner bib of their apron? Again, what comes to my mind is the Tyler’s oath? That aside (I know my next statement will elicit the response; “who gives a flying fig”), does the candidate not realize that internationally the time between degrees is one year? Whether we want to acknowledge this or not, we are part of an international institution.
(And these actions (ODC s) are considered internationally with great disdain.) Are we that concerned about quantity over quality? Or is this a mechanism of bowing to the pressure of the de-pendant bodies political pressure on their loss of new candidates? For whatever reason, are we failing to recognize that maybe some lodges need to close or consolidate? Without a doubt the halcyon days of behemoth lodges are long gone.

I was regularly IPR as a single candidate but it took at least  two stated meetings for me to come to the realization that none of the principle officers could confer my degrees and that it was a contest of individuals practicing “on me” as the candidate. Is this the impression one wants to leave with the candidate? 

Has anyone surveyed these candidates after the appropriate time for progression  into major offices about their feedback?  

As far as the generational gap, I think perhaps the generations have different cultures, values and ethics.
Perhaps submitting oneself to be judged by others does not fit within their norms. As with other groups such as the Rotary etc. Have we become irrelevant? I do not have all of the answers to these questions, but just submit them as food for thought.


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## Bro. Stewart P.M. (Jul 3, 2011)

*Re: you cannot destroy the strongman's goods...*



Bro_Vick said:


> Using the term "McMason" is disrespectful to brothers like Bro Chris, and I respectfully ask that it not be used.



I can respect your concern over the usage this term. I assure you that it has little to do with the individual Brothers, but as to the method. It is certainly not my desire to Offend anyone personally here or elsewhere & I am sorry if I have done so by using this term.



rhitland said:


> We have a few more than that so I have been told but I have never counted them myself.  By my rough estimate we have around 3200 hundred words for the EA and about 1,500 for the FC and around the same for the Masters.  THis is a really rough estimate and I would need to talk to some old timers to get a definite answer on this but I would be willing to bet my estimate is a little low.
> We have a saying here in the Lone Star State "Everything is Bigger" and we try our darndest to hold true to that, for better or worse!


 
I was thinking that the EA was 2300, but I think that you are correct with the FC & MM or at least close.


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## david918 (Jul 3, 2011)

Reminds me when I used to visit a lodge in Louisana they said our ritual reminded them of someone who walked around the whole block to open the front door


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## Bro_Vick (Jul 6, 2011)

Traveling Man said:


> does the candidate not realize that internationally the time between degrees is one year? Whether we want to acknowledge this or not, we are part of an international institution.



If you are going to bring up this comparison than you need to also state that European lodges mert once to four times a year versus American Lodges where the majority meet one to twice a month year round (some retire during the summer or winter months, depending on location).  So really there is isn't much to compare, while we are an international community, in America the state Grand Lodge controls the time between degrees and the criteria that the candidate is initiated, passed and raised.

I have traveled from one end of this globe to the other and have sat in lodge with many brothers.  I have seen men join the blue lodge, do the memorization work to get raised and never be seen again, either to the shrine or another apendent body, or leave fulfilling a promise to a relative.  I have also met and sat in lodge with men who went through the dreaded one day class and have done more for Freemasonry than most do in their lifetime.

My viewpoint was once like yours that anything worth doing, is worth doing well.  But I have realized that while the ritual is a key part of Freemasonry, the contributions of men is what keeps it going and make it still alive.  The young struggling lodge is far more valuable than the Past Masters Club that knows all the words to all the parts in all three degrees.  While a man needs to go through the degrees and meet the criteria of his Grand Lodge, the greater comment on his character isn't how he goes through the degrees to be me made, but how he contributes to our great fraternity in perpetuating it's legacy for future generations.

Two final points, then I will get off of my soapbox:

1)  Texas in the near future has no threat of ever doing one day classes, it won't be happening anytime soon.  For other states, as I have written before I trust their Grand Master and their Past Masters to be making the right decisions for their state and their respective lodges.  I am not going to sit in San Antonio and wave the finger of shame at another jurisdiction, not knowing the full story of what is going on in that jurisdiction.

2)  The fastest way to turn away men from the fraternity is to disparage ones who have gone through the one day class.  A brother is a brother and you do him harm by belittling his entry into the fraternity.

S&F,
-Bro Vick


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## JJones (Jul 6, 2011)

You have several valid points Brother Vick.  I was going to leave this thread be, having said my piece, but your post prompted me to add a little more.  If everyone bears with me I'll be quiet after this.  Also I've woken up at a very unusual hour for me this morning so I'll try to piece my thoughts together as legibly as possible. 



> 1) Texas in the near future has no threat of ever doing one day classes, it won't be happening anytime soon. For other states, as I have written before I trust their Grand Master and their Past Masters to be making the right decisions for their state and their respective lodges. I am not going to sit in San Antonio and wave the finger of shame at another jurisdiction, not knowing the full story of what is going on in that jurisdiction.



This is true, it's hard to know another jurisdiction's story without actually living there and it's really their own business how they choose to represent themselves there.  Wagging our finger from Texas wont do anyone any good and one day journies may be a very good thing for that place and time.  Really, I don't suppose I care much about how other jurisdictions operate,  I hope that doesn't make me a bad mason.  I suppose what I do care about are practices I see as detrimental being conducted here in Texas though.  Like you say, there's probably little chance of that happening any time soon.  *knocks on wood*



> I have traveled from one end of this globe to the other and have sat in lodge with many brothers. I have seen men join the blue lodge, do the memorization work to get raised and never be seen again, either to the shrine or another apendent body, or leave fulfilling a promise to a relative. I have also met and sat in lodge with men who went through the dreaded one day class and have done more for Freemasonry than most do in their lifetime.



I feel it really depends on the mason, not how they were raised.  If someone joins just to satisfy a whim or to go on to the Shrine then they'll be gone no matter what you do.  If someone joins because they actually want to get involved in the fraternity then they'll likely want to stay and make themselves useful however they can.

Sitting through a mass degree doesn't make a brother less of a mason but I do feel it cheats them out of some very important experiences.  Like I mentioned before, I was made a Yorkrite Mason/Templar in a one day festival and I don't feel like any less of a Royal Arch Mason or Knight but I do feel as though I missed out on a majority of the experience just by sitting there.


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## Benton (Jul 6, 2011)

JJones said:


> Sitting through a mass degree doesn't make a brother less of a mason but I do feel it cheats them out of some very important experiences. Like I mentioned before, I was made a Yorkrite Mason/Templar in a one day festival and I don't feel like any less of a Royal Arch Mason or Knight but I do feel as though I missed out on a majority of the experience just by sitting there.



This is important. 

The York Rite degrees that I remember best were the ones where I was the candidate. The ones I remember least are the ones where I sat on the sideline, watching another candidate go through. I'm not necessarily saying it should be changed, but its far, far more affecting for the candidate to actually be the candidate, not an observer. Something I would like to see preserved in blue lodge.


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## bullrack33 (Jul 7, 2011)

Bro_Vick said:


> The fraternity grew entirely too large in the 1940s and 1950s the previous generation of Freemasons warn the GI Generation brothers that things are getting too big too fast and that no one was watching the West Gate, the fraternity was never meant to be that large.




In my opinion, this is indeed true. I hope that I offend no one with this statement but I believe that quantity is NEVER better that quality. Today, more that at any other time in our nation's history, everything is being cheapened. Freemasonry included. There are a great number of lessons that are taught us through the memory work in the Degrees that are of the utmost importance to our Brethren's and indeed our Fraternity's Masonic edifice. 

I had the privilege of attending a Stated Meeting of Dublin Lodge #2 in Dublin Ireland a couple of years ago. This lodge was chartered in 1727. This subject came up in conversation and the Brethren there were absolutely dumbfounded by the idea of a "one day journey".


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## Benton (Jul 7, 2011)

bullrack33 said:


> Today, more that at any other time in our nation's history, everything is being cheapened.



We very much live in an instant gratification society, and I do think that's a contributing factor in this debate. There are many men who may otherwise be good men, but don't necessarily have the patience to take the time and do things 'right' as such. 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not in favor of one day journeys at all. But we do live in an instant gratification society. Instant news, instant calls, instant text, heck, the internet is in my pocket, and I can access wikipedia, one of the largest sources of general human information in our history, while I'm sitting waiting for my digital 3D megasound uber action movie to start.  

I don't think we should bend to that inclination, because that's not what we're about. We're about a lifelong journey of introspection and brotherhood, not instant gratification. But it is something we all should be aware of.


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## KFerguson84 (Jul 7, 2011)

jwhoff said:
			
		

> It's always disappointing to hear a man prove by his own words and actions that he has absolutely no idea of the principles of the brotherhood he is so proud of being a member.  Very disappointing.



Well put, Brother.

Kyle Ferguson, FGCR


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## KFerguson84 (Jul 12, 2011)

Nemesis242 said:
			
		

> I understand some of the concerns that are being voiced over One Day Journeys, what is not being taken in consideration is the alarming rate of the loss of our Masonic Brothers. On Oct. 30, 2010 a massive recruitment was done in PA where an initiate could become a Master Mason, Receive 32 Degree, and become a Shriner all in one day, there was 1,937 Initiates. Sounds like a lot but there are more statistics that frighten me more. In 2009 alone, there was a total loss of 2,918 Brothers for various reasons (death, illness, etc.) and in 2010 a total gain of 449, the first membership growth in 50 years!! That's Frightening!! If these journeys are not taken there won't be anyone to pass the knowledge & skills on to cause not enough members are joining. I too just was Raised in a One Day Journey on 6-11-2011 but I have every intention of getting all knowledge & skills being offered to me. When I look at the other Brothers in my Lodge I see the past (meaning none of them are young) I myself am 47 years old and most of them are in their late 50's & 60's and retired. The younger crowd aren't interested in joining an that scares me. If someone else has some input on this I would love to read it. Please don't be too quick to judge. Good Luck Brothers!!



Bro. 
What was your motivation for joining, if you don't mind me asking? You seem to be very "scared" and "frightened" by the state of the Fraternity. 

I think a point that is missed here is that Freemasonry is not about getting as many members as we can. It is a way of life that is taught through degrees. In my opinion, there should be several months between degrees, not several minutes. 

Numbers will not save the Fraternity. Quality will. Quality in everything we do. 100 quality brothers who practice the teachings and philosophy are better than 300,000 brothers who have no idea about the interior work. The information taught in the degrees can never be fully communicated in 8 hours. One degree needs to be taken and dwelled upon for months before advancement to the next.

Kyle Ferguson, FGCR


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