# Just Venting.



## Brian Davis (Apr 23, 2017)

Evening brothers,
I recently went through my 2nd degree, and I have noticed a trend. I have very little to no contact at all with any of the brothers from the lodge, until its time to do my degree work. I study on my own, but don't feel like I'm getting much light that way.
I reach out to the brothers from the lodge, and they tell me they are working on putting a study hall together, but nothing has materialized as of yet. I feel like the only time they want me around, is when it's time to pay for degree work. I will be getting raised in a few weeks, and honestly, I don't feel like i possess the light, to consider myself a master mason.


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## CLewey44 (Apr 23, 2017)

James is correct to a degree, but we are all FCs as much as we are MMs (and EAs for that matter) and they should be helping you more and certainly be working with you on the cat lec. Another good point James made is that you do need to dig yourself some and not rely on them too much, maybe with some guidance from them as to not get off in left field too much. And at the end of the day, people are busy and hopefully when you're in the shoes of some of your mentors, you'll do a better job than they did with new guys. It can be tough to break away from your family or job to make time to teach others these things. However, it is a responsibility if you agreed to do it.

I'm sorry it's not going as you expected or as it should. Hopefully when you are raised, you can start making good changes in your lodge if you feel it needs it.  Show interest in becoming an officer and hopefully you'll be selected and then you can start having more of a voice. Staying active and setting a standard is important too. When new guys show up to be initiated, spend a lot of time with them that night, make them feel welcomed and special. Go out afterwards and get a beer maybe. Freely talk with them about their initiatory experience, give your input and ask their opinion as well.

Best of luck to you!


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## Thomas Stright (Apr 23, 2017)

How do you study on your own? All work is mouth to ear.....


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## Brother JC (Apr 23, 2017)

Thomas Stright said:


> How do you study on your own? All work is mouth to ear...


Not everywhere. And you're referring to the proficiency. An FC is charged with studying considerably more than that and its all available in the nearest library.


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## acjohnson53 (Apr 23, 2017)

All is true on all that's said, We are Fellows of the Craft. What I recommend to you go to the Junior Deacon and seek guidance, go up the chain to seek your answers, if you are not satisfied go to the Worshipful Master he has the answer to all your questions


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## Glen Cook (Apr 23, 2017)

acjohnson53 said:


> All is true on all that's said, We are Fellows of the Craft. What I recommend to you go to the Junior Deacon and seek guidance, go up the chain to seek your answers, if you are not satisfied go to the Worshipful Master he has the answer to all your questions


Why the JD?


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## Derek Harvey (Apr 23, 2017)

Hello brother.  You might want to check out The Masonic Lodge of Education.  It's a website that educational on all the degrees.  It also tests you to see if you are ready. It may help to feel in some gaps. The journey is in the man and what he makes it.

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## Derek Harvey (Apr 23, 2017)

Also just ask away here on the forums. There are lots of brother with far more time in than me who will gladly help you.

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## Ripcord22A (Apr 23, 2017)

Glen Cook said:


> Why the JD?


I was wondering the same thing.  It must be a PHA CA thing as Bro AC has mentioned this in the past

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## MarkR (Apr 24, 2017)

Thomas Stright said:


> How do you study on your own? All work is mouth to ear.....


As was stated above, this is not true of many jurisdictions.  We have a two-letter cipher book, and part of the coaching we do with our initiates is how to read the cipher, so they can study at home as well as with their coach.


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## Thomas Stright (Apr 24, 2017)

MarkR said:


> As was stated above, this is not true of many jurisdictions.  We have a two-letter cipher book, and part of the coaching we do with our initiates is how to read the cipher, so they can study at home as well as with their coach.



Did not know this. Only MM can use a cipher here. 


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## jermy Bell (Apr 24, 2017)

Thomas Stright said:


> How do you study on your own? All work is mouth to ear.....
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using My Freemasonry


We had a booklet.or the short version to memorize.


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## tldubb (Apr 24, 2017)

In our jurisdiction the SD conducts the class just as well he also conducts the candidates. Through the various stations while receiving their degrees. The JD assists him in doing so. The SW, acts as the dean of instruction and assures that the SD is conducting instructions and Masonic knowledge within the guidelines of the constitution and lodge bylaws.

I've been of the opinion that the sponsor of the candidate has responsibility of being a mentor and should assist the candidate/brother in his Masonic Education. In my jurisdiction we have booklets for EA,FC degrees issued from our GL for proficiency purposes and lectures after they are initiated and passed. They also are to take the time to study on their own and participate in degree classes.


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## Keith C (Apr 24, 2017)

Tidubb - Pretty similar on the GL of PA side, with the exception of the responsibilities.  Our lodges have a Masonic Education Committee responsible for helping new brothers through the necessary learning through the degrees.  We have a packed of information for each degree as well as one that is given tp the Candidate between the time they are balloted successfully and their EA degree.  The committee meets with degree candidates monthly and is composed of 3 PMs and another senior brother at our lodge.

I like your idea of the sponsor or, as we say, first line signer, to have the responsibility of mentoring the candidate.  I was lucky as the chair of the Education Committee was my first line signer.

I would love to see how you do things.  I am going to try to find a free 3rd Sunday night and try to visit your lodge sometime.


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## acjohnson53 (Apr 24, 2017)

The Junior  Deacon is the Sharpest person in the Lodge. Of course all Brothers are knowledgeable, It's not a PHA-Ca thing, that's just my opinion Brothers...FYI I welcome all profanes with open arms, especially if I petition them to become Master Masons. He wouldn't be on here seeking help.....


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## Ripcord22A (Apr 24, 2017)

acjohnson53 said:


> The Junior  Deacon is the Sharpest person in the Lodge. Of course all Brothers are knowledgeable, It's not a PHA-Ca thing, that's just my opinion Brothers...FYI I welcome all profanes with open arms, especially if I petition them to become Master Masons. He wouldn't be on here seeking help.....


What led you to that opinion?

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## Thomas Stright (Apr 25, 2017)

acjohnson53 said:


> The Junior  Deacon is the Sharpest person in the Lodge. Of course all Brothers are knowledgeable, It's not a PHA-Ca thing, that's just my opinion Brothers...FYI I welcome all profanes with open arms, especially if I petition them to become Master Masons. He wouldn't be on here seeking help.....



Why would you petition anyone to become a Mason. They are the ones that need to ask...


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## coachn (Apr 25, 2017)

Thomas Stright said:


> Why would you petition anyone to become a Mason. They are the ones that need to ask....


Spot on!


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## Keith C (Apr 25, 2017)

acjohnson53 said:


> The Junior  Deacon is the Sharpest person in the Lodge. Of course all Brothers are knowledgeable, It's not a PHA-Ca thing, that's just my opinion Brothers...FYI I welcome all profanes with open arms, especially if I petition them to become Master Masons. He wouldn't be on here seeking help.....



Wow, I appreciate your opinion, but that is far from the truth in most lodges.  I speak from my own perspective of being asked to serve as Junior Deacon in my lodge 4 months after being raised.  IMHO there are usually MANY PMs who are far "Sharper", more knowledgeable and more wise than the most junior officer in the line.


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## coachn (Apr 25, 2017)

acjohnson53 said:


> The Junior  Deacon is the Sharpest person in the Lodge. Of course all Brothers are knowledgeable, It's not a PHA-Ca thing, that's just my opinion Brothers...FYI I welcome all profanes with open arms, especially if I petition them to become Master Masons. He wouldn't be on here seeking help.....


Define "Sharp".


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## Ripcord22A (Apr 25, 2017)

Is it because he guards the outter door and it is his job to purge the lodge?

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## coachn (Apr 25, 2017)

Ripcord22A said:


> Is it because he guards the outter door and it is his job to purge the lodge?
> 
> Sent from my LG-H918 using My Freemasonry mobile app


Wouldn't a heavy does of  Exlax do the same job?


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## David Duke (Apr 25, 2017)

coachn said:


> You are sadly mistaken.



How so, are not petitioners required to ask if there own free will and accord?

While it is okay to talk freely about how we may think someone would be a good fit for the fraternity we are forbidden to solicit members, if we do that it would not be of their own accord. 


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## Keith C (Apr 25, 2017)

David Duke said:


> How so, are not petitioners required to ask if there own free will and accord?
> 
> While it is okay to talk freely about how we may think someone would be a good fit for the fraternity we are forbidden to solicit members, if we do that it would not be of their own accord.
> 
> ...



That depends on your jurisdiction.  In PA we are permitted to invite men of good character to petition.

From the Grand Lodge of PA Website:


> Our tradition was to wait for you to seek membership entirely of your own free will and accord. Today, however, we allow our members to selectively invite men of good character, who will be a credit to our Fraternity. But this doesn’t mean that you have to wait to be invited to join the Freemasons of Pennsylvania. Your interest is enough, if you meet the qualifications.



Even if you are invited it is still of "your own free will and accord" to petition.  No one will force you to sign.


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## coachn (Apr 25, 2017)

David Duke said:


> How so, are not petitioners required to ask if there own free will and accord?
> 
> While it is okay to talk freely about how we may think someone would be a good fit for the fraternity we are forbidden to solicit members, if we do that it would not be of their own accord.


Oops!  My Bad!  When I read his "Why would you petition anyone to become a Mason. They are the ones that need to ask...." I took the "They" to be fellow Masons.  

Fixed!


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## Glen Cook (Apr 25, 2017)

David Duke said:


> How so, are not petitioners required to ask if there own free will and accord?
> 
> While it is okay to talk freely about how we may think someone would be a good fit for the fraternity we are forbidden to solicit members, if we do that it would not be of their own accord.
> 
> ...


 I'm not sure the individual meant his jurisdiction allows solicitation. I think it may have been  some poor wording. However, 
 some jurisdictions do allow solicitation. UGLE: there is no objection to a neutrally worded approach being made to a man who could be considered a suitable candidate for Freemasonry. There can be no objection to his being reminded, once, that the approach was made. Information for the Guidance of Members of the Craft, 2013, page 36.


Utah: The definition of improper solicitation of a potential candidate is any proposal by a Mason that involves coercion or implied negative retaliation of any kind. 2012 Proceedings Page 39.


Minnesota rule: 

Proper solicitation shall consist of the following: A man of sterling qualities may be approached and informed, but only once. He must be

left to make his own decision. He should not be badgered


The current understanding in CA is that a mason could tell someone that they think that they would be a good mason.  After that if asked the mason may provide more information.


TX allows a neutrally worded invitation


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## David Duke (Apr 25, 2017)

Even if you are invited it is still of "your own free will and accord" to petition.  No one will force you to sign.[/QUOTE]




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## David Duke (Apr 25, 2017)

David Duke said:


> Even if you are invited it is still of "your own free will and accord" to petition.  No one will force you to sign.






Sent from my iPhone using My Freemasonry mobile app[/QUOTE]

Whoops forgot to enter the text. What I meant to say is that it would be of his own free will, however, it would not be of his own accord since it was not his original idea to petition. That being said if it is allowed in your jurisdiction SMIB. 


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## Glen Cook (Apr 25, 2017)

David Duke said:


> Sent from my iPhone using My Freemasonry mobile app



Whoops forgot to enter the text. What I meant to say is that it would be of his own free will, however, it would not be of his own accord since it was not his original idea to petition. That being said if it is allowed in your jurisdiction SMIB.


Sent from my iPhone using My Freemasonry mobile app[/QUOTE]
Umm, accord means to agree, not to initiate the concept.


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## David Duke (Apr 25, 2017)

Sent from my iPhone using My Freemasonry mobile app[/QUOTE]
Umm, accord means to agree, not to initiate the concept.[/QUOTE]

It all depends on usage of the phrase I believe it should be interpreted as below found in the Oxford English Dictionary in particularly the one which says "voluntary or without outside intervention"

Phrases
in accord with
According to.
‘things didn't happen quite in accord with expectations’
More example sentencesSynonyms
of one's own accord

Voluntarily or without outside intervention.
‘he would not seek treatment of his own accord’
‘the rash may go away of its own accord’


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## Glen Cook (Apr 25, 2017)

Voluntary does not prohibit intervention, only compulsion. The proposed examples all indicate agreement; lack of coercion. No, outside intervention is not the key.

an example : You will find similar words in an enlistment oath , but these words are still insufficient to vitiate the voluntariness of the agreement. Indeed, they demonstrate the voluntariness

Evidently,  Texas accepts solicitation .


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## Brother JC (Apr 25, 2017)

NM Code 308. SELECTIVE INVITATION.
Any Master Mason in good standing may invite a man he knows to be of good character and morals to join the fraternity if he qualifies under Codes 301, 302 and 303 above.


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## Brother_Steve (Apr 26, 2017)

JamestheJust said:


> Hi Brian
> 
> I regret that you will not receive much light if you rely upon your brethren.  The official reason for that is disclosed in the 3rd degree but that is just an excuse.
> 
> The real problem, in my experience, is that very few brethren attempt the work of the FC.


I would argue it is the Second Degree, more specifically, the MC lecture tells the Brother to never stop learning.

We have to remember that Masonry existed in a time where the Trivium (Grammar, Rhetoric and Logic) were the fundamental basics of an education. Anyone that went on to be a scholar  had to be educated in the Quadrivium (Arithmetic, Geometry, Music and Astronomy).

Masonry has many different meanings to different people, but one core principle of Masonry is to never stop learning.

We are given the tools and instructions to prove ourselves master masons in open lodge. However, life experience and education never stops We are all Fellows of the Craft if you think about it in that way and manner.

edited: in my opinion. I will agree that the third does leave its mark and makes an impression.


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## acjohnson53 (Apr 26, 2017)

let me rephrase that, it's the Senior Deacon I was referring..... They approach me, I deemed worthy Brothers, I petition them, My results, 6 P.M., 2 33d, I find that a good reason to petition good Brpthers....


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## tldubb (Apr 26, 2017)

We refer the SD by candidates as our "affectionate friend".


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## The Traveling Man (Apr 26, 2017)

Sorry to hear that you dont feel you've received the Light yet, but that will change. I wont give you any suggested books to read, as that list may differ by Jurisdiction, but I'll suggest reading North East Corner part 2 for the FC degree.  Nothing is given in Masonry, you must A.S.K. If you dont feel things are moving in Lodge, change it. Start speaking up and bringing in ideas. 

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## Brother_Steve (Apr 27, 2017)

Ah, the SD...

The Senior Deacon is the first true test to see if that brother is ready to hold an elected chair in the line. He is 7th in seniority, but only 3 years out of the East.


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## Warrior1256 (Apr 27, 2017)

Brother_Steve said:


> Ah, the SD...
> 
> The Senior Deacon is the first true test to see if that brother is ready to hold an elected chair in the line. He is 7th in seniority, but only 3 years out of the East.


I was placed in this chair four months after being raised! Talk about having to play catch up, lol.


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## Brother_Steve (Apr 27, 2017)

Warrior1256 said:


> I was placed in this chair four months after being raised! Talk about having to play catch up, lol.


I don't know how you do it beyond opening and closing. I hope they hold off on degree work for several months so you can study. Do they hold you back until you get comfortable or are you nominated for the South the following year?

My lodge is lucky in the fact that we've never had a repeat master since being chartered in 1881. It takes roughly 6 to 8 years to get to the east in my lodge depending on whomever drops, if anyone drops. We always have people wanting to get in line. None of whom are past masters.

I could not imagine starting in that chair and running the Lodge in 3 years.


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## Warrior1256 (Apr 27, 2017)

Brother_Steve said:


> I don't know how you do it beyond opening and closing. I hope they hold off on degree work for several months so you can study. Do they hold you back until you get comfortable or are you nominated for the South the following year?


I held the position for the full year and did a LOT of practice. The Past Masters in my mother lodge were very helpful in drilling the knowledge into me for both SD and JW. By the time that my year was up as SD I was ready to take my place in the south. This past December I was installed as SW.


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## The Traveling Man (Apr 27, 2017)

Brother_Steve said:


> I don't know how you do it beyond opening and closing. I hope they hold off on degree work for several months so you can study. Do they hold you back until you get comfortable or are you nominated for the South the following year?
> 
> My lodge is lucky in the fact that we've never had a repeat master since being chartered in 1881. It takes roughly 6 to 8 years to get to the east in my lodge depending on whomever drops, if anyone drops. We always have people wanting to get in line. None of whom are past masters.
> 
> I could not imagine starting in that chair and running the Lodge in 3 years.


In my Lodge I was elected JW 7 months after being raised. There are talks of me going to the East next year, which will mean I will have went from EA to WM in less than 2 years. . . . 
I have previous Masonic experience, having previously been a member of another Order not recognized by my current GL. That may have had something to do with it, but it's still out of the norm. 

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## Warrior1256 (Apr 27, 2017)

The Traveling Man said:


> In my Lodge I was elected JW 7 months after being raised. There are talks of me going to the East next year, which will mean I will have went from EA to WM in less than 2 years. . . .


Sometimes you get thrown into the deep end, lol.


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## Brother_Steve (Apr 27, 2017)

Warrior1256 said:


> Sometimes you get thrown into the deep end, lol.


with sharks with freaking laser beams attached to their heads.


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## tldubb (Apr 27, 2017)

Brother_Steve said:


> with sharks with freaking laser beams attached to their heads.



Those Grumpy Past Master's remind of the shark shooting laser beams at you if you miss a word...lol


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## Keith C (Apr 28, 2017)

I was raised last December, I was appointed JD at the beginning last month.  The WM, SW and JW approached me last week and said that the current SD is not attending district schools and has made no effort to learn the work necessary to be elected JW in December.  They highly recommended that I lean the work as soon as I can, with the goal of being "signed off" by the District Principal in September on the necessary proficiency (Every word for every participant for opening & closing both ways, Business of the Lodge and the EA degree.)  That is my goal for the summer!


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## Warrior1256 (Apr 28, 2017)

Keith C said:


> They highly recommended that I lean the work as soon as I can, with the goal of being "signed off" by the District Principal in September on the necessary proficiency (Every word for every participant for opening & closing both ways, Business of the Lodge and the EA degree.) That is my goal for the summer!


I know the feeling, good luck!


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## MRichard (May 8, 2017)

Brian Davis said:


> Evening brothers,
> I recently went through my 2nd degree, and I have noticed a trend. I have very little to no contact at all with any of the brothers from the lodge, until its time to do my degree work. I study on my own, but don't feel like I'm getting much light that way.
> I reach out to the brothers from the lodge, and they tell me they are working on putting a study hall together, but nothing has materialized as of yet. I feel like the only time they want me around, is when it's time to pay for degree work. I will be getting raised in a few weeks, and honestly, I don't feel like i possess the light, to consider myself a master mason.



What grand lodge do you belong to? I looked at some of your previous posts and the issue was raised. Do you belong to with the Grand Lodge of Florida or the PHA grand lodge in your state, I believe it is Most Worshipful Union Grand Lodge of Florida or something like that.


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## Brian Davis (May 8, 2017)

Since my last post, a lot has changed. I was raised, and afterwards, it was explained why things were done a certain way. I was introduced to a lot of the brother families, and I felt bad for thinking ill of them.


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## MRichard (May 8, 2017)

Brian Davis said:


> Since my last post, a lot has changed. I was raised, and afterwards, it was explained why things were done a certain way. I was introduced to a lot of the brother families, and I felt bad for thinking ill of them.



Yes but what grand lodge do you belong to?


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## Brian Davis (May 8, 2017)

MRichard said:


> Yes but what grand lodge do you belong to?


Prince Hall.


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## MRichard (May 8, 2017)

Brian Davis said:


> Prince Hall.



Is that Prince Hall Affiliated or PHA? In Florida it is Most Worshipful Union Grand Lodge of Florida for PHA.


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## Brian Davis (May 8, 2017)

MRichard said:


> Is that Prince Hall Affiliated or PHA?


PHA.


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## Brian Davis (May 8, 2017)

Brian Davis said:


> Prince Hall.


MWGU of FL, PHA


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## acjohnson53 (May 9, 2017)

what is y'all membership like, two's and fews or or u can open up with out filling seats, what do the P.M. think about it???I praise you from coming from the South to getting to East.../G\SMIB


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## acjohnson53 (May 9, 2017)

Does not matter his affiliation, he is headed East.....


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