# Alcohol In The Lodge



## Blake Bowden (Jan 29, 2009)

Is there anything prohibiting it in GL Bylaws? We had a big discussion on the old forums regarding alcohol in the Lodge. A couple of months ago a guy from Scotland visited our Lodge, and told me he didn't understand why Americans don't have drinks...lol


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## jonesvilletexas (Jan 29, 2009)

We are now able to rent out portions of the lodge (NOT the lodge room) and they can have alcohol, but MUST have a paid police officer and at least one member of the lodge present. I for one am not in fever of this.


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## caeservi (Jan 30, 2009)

some bible belt GL's are dry.  our neighbor to the west, New Mexico, is a wet GL


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## KD5NM (Jan 30, 2009)

I remember reading somewhere that the original Lodge(s) in England were formed and met in Taverns.


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## Bro. Stewart P.M. (Jan 30, 2009)

KD5NM said:


> I remember reading somewhere that the original Lodge(s) in England were formed and met in Taverns.



Well Brother, if I am not mistaken the Father of our country and Brother Mason George Washington met with his fellow Brothers at a Tavern. I'd be almost certain that someone had a drink or two on meeting night.


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## Brother Secretary (Jan 30, 2009)

post Morgan affair puritanical influence, yes there is a GL of TX article prohibiting alcohol in, "the lodge room," though I can't off the top of my head recite chapter and verse on that one. Now the article specifies only the lodge room, not necessarily in the entire building.  

In our neighbor to the east, GL of LA, I have visited Germania # 46 in New Orleans. They have a lovely lodge room upstairs and a nice dining room downstairs with a bar at one end complete with beer (I forget which brands) on tap!  

I was raised a Baptist, but I'll still say high to you at the liquor store


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## Brother Secretary (Jan 30, 2009)

KD5NM, you're correct. In point of fact the Grand Lodge of England was formed in 1717AD at the Goose and Gridiron Pub in London.

73s


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## ravickery03 (Jan 30, 2009)

blake said:


> Is there anything prohibiting it in GL Bylaws? We had a big discussion on the old forums regarding alcohol in the Lodge. A couple of months ago a guy from Scotland visited our Lodge, and told me he didn't understand why Americans don't have drinks...lol



Yeah and I got booed off the stage for bringing it up. j/k

I am curious though as I thought that alcohol was banned completely from the building just not the lodge room.  We have a dinning room downstairs and a lodge room upstairs in Army #1105.  I was always told no alcohol on the property (I guess guys would sit on the back porach for a while and have a beer after lodge in it's early years).

Maybe it's a rule specific to Army #1105 though, but I can't imagine a bunch of Army guys not wanting to have beer.  That seems, unnatural. 

-Bro Vick


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## nick1368 (Jan 30, 2009)

umm  for some reason I thought and I could be completely wrong, but I could have sworn that a few months ago our Secretary said that someone called about renting the banquet room but when he told them we were not allowed to have alcohol they said never mind.  I assumed we couldn't because of GL law.  Is this the case or maybe just a spoke rule or Bylaw in our lodge?


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## jwardl (Jan 30, 2009)

ravickery03 said:


> I am curious though as I thought that alcohol was banned completely from the building just not the lodge room.


 

My understanding as well. In my lodge we wanted to have wine for a special occasion last year, and were told we had to have a special dispensation from GL to do so. This, even though our lodge room is upstairs and the wine was to be consumed downstairs in our banquet area.

We never did it, btw.


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## Wingnut (Jan 30, 2009)

*Art. 505.  Certain Other Masonic Disciplinary Violations.*
  7.  Consume,  possess,  have  in  possession,  or  sell  intoxicating  liquor  in  any  portion  of  the  Grand  Lodge Memorial  Building,  or  of  any  building  or  portion  of  any  building  occupied  or  used  by  any  Lodge, provided, however, that this prohibition does not apply to small quantities of any such beverages or liquors required  by  existing  rituals  of  such  organization  in  the  conferring  of  its  degrees  or  orders,  or  in  the ceremonies in observance of special occasions required by existing regulations of such organizations;  and further, this prohibition shall not apply to space properly leased for commercial purposes.
         Constituent Lodges  may  meet  in buildings  where  alcoholic  beverages  may  from  time  to  time  be  served.  Constituent  Lodges  of the  Grand  Lodge  of Texas may  meet  in buildings  where other  appendant  Masonic organizations may,  from time to time, serve alcoholic beverages  so  long as such service  is not in progress  while the Lodge is open there. Constituent Lodges may let, lease, or rent portions of their buildings to other appendant  Masonic  organizations who may, from time to  time, serve  alcoholic beverages, so long as such service does not occur in the Lodgeroom  of the building.


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## Squire Bentley (Jan 31, 2009)

Early Lodges in Boston met at Taverns.

The Lodge in my home town of Lexington , MA was chrtered by Bro. William Munroe who was proprieter of Munroe's Tavern one of only two taverns in the town.  Hiram's Lodge met there for 40 years at his tavern but later moved to the neigboring town of Arlington, MA

Some GLs in the USA permit alcohol.  All Lodges in Australia, Canada, Britain, France, Germany, Italy and I could go on permit it. 

In many jurisdictions it is the duty of the Junior Warden to see that no intemperance takes place. If that is written into his duties then it has been the corruption of Freemasonry whereby certain jurisdictions have codified into their Masonic law their own personal religious beliefs.  

I am a member of the largest Christian denomination in the world and it says little to nothing about the consumption of alcohol except to not imbibe to excess.

When I visited Canadian Lodges I had a great time at their "Festive Boards" where we did a number of toasts of our favorite adult bevarage.  I saw nothing get out of hand.


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## cale (Jan 31, 2009)

I agree with you brother and hope that Texas Masons work to change the current rules.
However as long as that is the rule we ALL must folow our own laws.


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## Blake Bowden (Jan 31, 2009)

I would love to have a nice meal and glass of wine..lol







*A Toast to all our differences
			A Toast to common ground
			A Toast to what we're seeking
			A Toast to what we've found
			To what brings us together
			To what sets us apart
			A Toast to many different souls
			United with one heart.*


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## JEbeling (Feb 1, 2009)

The early Baptist ruled.. !


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## Bro. Stewart P.M. (Feb 1, 2009)

I am a bit undecided on the alcohol in the lodge issue. Part of me wants to enjoy a good brew before a meeting, and the other enjoys the fact that alcohol is no where to be found. Kind of funny ehh?


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## ravickery03 (Feb 1, 2009)

I find this change of heart from the earlier discussion on the old board, disturbing.


Seriously, where are all the people that were saying that they didn't want Masons to be associated with alcohol consumption?  Or that alcohol does not promote peace, love or harmony?

When I went to Mesa #68 in New Mexico after they closed lodge they brought out 6 beers, sodas for the 14 brothers that were there, 12 brothers stayed afterwards and talked and 4 beers were consumed.  Not one brother was sucking down all four beers, and most everyone stayed after the meeting and enjoyed each other’s company instead of darting out of the lodge building as fast as possible.

Beer, wine and spirit consumption in moderation is actually a natural thing in American society in social settings.  There are those that cannot control themselves in this consumption, if they choose to ignore the lessons of the EA and let their desires get the better of them, and then as Bro Fred has stated the JW has the charge to take control of the situation.

You can still have a festive board; you just have to do it outside of the lodge building.  While not convenient, it has its own benefits as well.

Personally I don't see this law changing anytime soon, many feel that if you are a Mason and you want to consume alcohol there is the Shrine, or the Grotto (if the Grotto serves alcohol) and see no benefit introducing it into the blue lodge.


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## david918 (Feb 1, 2009)

Some of us from Wharton lodge get together occasionally after lodge or practice at a local restaurant owned by bro LRG for a couple of drinks or a meal.We always have a great time  just remember to wear your boots the BS gets kinda deep at times.


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## Wingnut (Feb 1, 2009)

I havent researched this very well yet (long to do list), but I believe it originated with the Temperance movements lead by the very far right Christians.  Then the Prohibition Act...  Im sure there is some Morgan Affair backlash there also.   Tie this in with the discussion about Christianity and Masonry we just had and I think you can see why its still around.

There may of course be some connection to peace and harmony prevailing...


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## tomasball (Feb 13, 2009)

jonesvilletexas said:


> We are now able to rent out portions of the lodge (NOT the lodge room) and they can have alcohol, but MUST have a paid police officer and at least one member of the lodge present. I for one am not in fever of this.




Where do you get that bit about the police?  Is that maybe just your local lodge policy?

Tom 

PM Mercedes 1010


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## gortex6 (Feb 13, 2009)

What if your lodge predates the GLTX?


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## Smokey613 (Feb 13, 2009)

Even if it were permitted by GLoT it would not happen on our lodge property. Now I enjoy a glass of wine or even a beer while BBQing but I see no place for it on lodge property. Too easy for things to get out of hand and be perceived in a bad light by the public. We do not need to give the anti-masonic crowd any more ammunition.


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## Joey (Feb 13, 2009)

Smokey613 said:


> Too easy for things to get out of hand and be perceived in a bad light by the public. We do not need to give the anti-masonic crowd any more ammunition.



I agree


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## gortex6 (Feb 13, 2009)

This reminds me of general order #1 in Iraq and Afghanistan.  Each FOB is usually divided into sections: the Italian section, Polish section, Brittish section, Australian section, Japanese section, Korean section, and the non-alcoholic section (otherwise known as the Americans)  They are allowed to drink but never have problems resulting from it.  We are banned from drinking and it still remains a problem for us.

If you treat grown men like little kids they act like little kids.


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## Jon D. Smith (Feb 13, 2009)

I definitely enjoy a drink or two. I even brewed for 6 years before the twins got big enough that I had to give up my office/brewery room.
I'm quite happy to keep my personal libations seperate from the Lodge. If it was a special occassion/dinner, I wouldn't have a problem with a glass of wine or a beer but, I'm just fine without it.


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## rhitland (Feb 14, 2009)

I lodge in the Fort Worth Temple and on many ocasions I have seen Masons having parties down stairs in the ballroom with boos. I think that if a Mason cannot use temperance and prudence when consuming alcohol he needs to leave it alone on his own personal accord. I am always weary of laws that try to enforce a certian morality on the masses. My Brothers and I have some of the deepest and best Masonic discussion after a few drinks but we know our bounds.


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## rhitland (Feb 14, 2009)

In 1717 while founding the Premier Grand Lodge there where meeting held at the Apple Tree Tavern. 

I think Brother Benjamin Franklin Said it best:
"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy."

Brother Ben's wild sucsess and unconventional wisdom may have never blessed this earth without beer. If we sit and ponder we will not worry about off yonder.


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## Bubba (Apr 5, 2013)

How many Masonic organizations have alcoholic beverages at some of there dinners and/or banqeuts?

Red Cross of Constentine: They do at their banquets.
Knight Masons Counsels: They do at their dinner meetings.
Allied Masonic Degrees AMD Counsels do, too.
Scottish Rite: They has a cash bar at its big banquets.
Shriners: Both the Shrine Temple and the Shrine Clubs always have drinks with their dinners.
Knights of the Order of Acon: I'm not a member, but I was told that they had drinks at their annual banquet, with the ladies, in a lodge building.
National Sojourners: They do when they meet and eat.
York Rite: Ive been to York Rite banquets in Masonic lodge buildings where they had a cash bar.
Grand Masters Suite during Grand Lodge: It always has alcoholic drinks every year Ive been.
Lodge dinners: Ive been to Christmas banquets at hotels and country clubs, and other lodge dinners at the Scottish Rite building, where drinks were served before dinner, and wine was drank during dinner.
Plus, any lodge can let one of these orgnaizations can have a dinner in the lodge building with alcoholic drinks as long as its not in the lodgeroom, and the lodge not in session.

Read the lawbook. It allows all of that.

But, this year, the Grand Master doesnt allow it inspite of what the law says.

And Buddy Baccus nicknamed him "blue-bag" because he likes Crown Royal.


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## widows son (Apr 5, 2013)

I don't there is anything wrong with a social drink or two. I mean if your getting smashed after the meetings and jumping in your car, then that's problem.


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## Bill Lins (Apr 6, 2013)

Bubba said:


> this year, the Grand Master doesn't allow it in spite of what the law says.



First I've heard of this- could you please elaborate?


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## Michael Hatley (Apr 6, 2013)

Our lodge room is within our local Shrine temple.  We don't drink before lodge, and certainly never within the lodge room.  But after lodge?

Keeping in mind that there are pool tables, big screen tvs, poker tables and on and on in the various unit rooms on every side of our lodge room, above the lodge room, etc etc.  The Shrine temple property is like a mini Hogwarts for menfolk, and gated, so privacy is well assured.  Some nights we have boxing matches right across the hallway from our lodge too...full ring, undercards and all that stuff.

The man who was my top signer at the Shrine gave me a great rule of thumb the day I was initiated up there: "Drink all you want, but don't get drunk", and thats how we approach it.  Which means, don't make an ass of yourself, keep your wits about you and so forth.  Getting a DUI or God forbid hurting someone on the road, much less getting sloppy drunk and making your brothers uncomfortable isn't in the cards.  

And you're likely to make a hell of a donation to the capital improvement fund via the rake if you do that anyway


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## jwhoff (Apr 6, 2013)

Brother Secretary said:


> post Morgan affair puritanical influence, yes there is a GL of TX article prohibiting alcohol in, "the lodge room," though I can't off the top of my head recite chapter and verse on that one. Now the article specifies only the lodge room, not necessarily in the entire building.
> 
> In our neighbor to the east, GL of LA, I have visited Germania # 46 in New Orleans. They have a lovely lodge room upstairs and a nice dining room downstairs with a bar at one end complete with beer (I forget which brands) on tap!  I was raised a Baptist, but I'll still say high to you at the liquor store



*Oh my

*:17: *

... I hope it's not Jax or Falstaff!
*
*Oh my!*


*not all of my memories from back home are positive.  

**Oh my!*


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## cog41 (Apr 6, 2013)

Not in favor of having it at lodge. Peace and Harmony being our chief strength, why place ourselves in an easy position for disruption and trouble? I don't oppose drinking and certainly understand one's fondness for Crown Royal, but I think it could open the door for loose tongues which may lead to all types of hurt, angry and volatile feelings.


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## widows son (Apr 6, 2013)

Good point cog41. I'd like to think tho that the setting in which we are in (post meeting) would be enough to hinder one from loosing their tongue.


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## Mac (Apr 6, 2013)

Michael Hatley said:


> Our lodge room is within our local Shrine temple.  We don't drink before lodge, and certainly never within the lodge room.  But after lodge?
> 
> Keeping in mind that there are pool tables, big screen tvs, poker tables and on and on in the various unit rooms on every side of our lodge room, above the lodge room, etc etc.  The Shrine temple property is like a mini Hogwarts for menfolk, and gated, so privacy is well assured.  Some nights we have boxing matches right across the hallway from our lodge too...full ring, undercards and all that stuff.
> 
> ...



Sounds like an ideal setup!

Freemason Connect Mobile


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## cog41 (Apr 6, 2013)

widows son said:


> Good point cog41. I'd like to think tho that the setting in which we are in (post meeting) would be enough to hinder one from loosing their tongue.



Agreed. I'd like to believe the post meeting atmosphere would be one of top quality brotherly friendship and unity. That being the case, it could be taken elsewhere for the stronger refreshments. No sense in risking a potentially bad situation at the lodge.
I understand rules can be in place but someone must enforce those rules when broken or when members fail to subdue their "passions" or circumscribe their desire for more of a good thing gone bad. Thus the enforcer,or whatever who may call him, becomes the bad guy and before ya know it there is disagreement on who broke the rule(s) or if any were broken at all....blah blah blah, etc. etc....
I wouldn't be a stick in the mud if my lodge wanted them, I'd just slide on to the house when the time arrived and hear about the activities later.


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## Michael Hatley (Apr 6, 2013)

Mac said:


> Sounds like an ideal setup!



I think it must be a somewhat unique location.  And we don't do anything as an organized lodge event or anything like that.  Rules are the rules, and I'm about the last fellow to want to skirt them.  And to be clear, we aren't as a lodge organizing boxing matches or that sort of thing - its just a massive building and parts of it get rented to the public and whatnot.

FWIW, I've attended a TO  lodge, and libations are permitted at their table lodges.  I witnessed nothing but the most brotherly of conduct.  And come to think of it now, I've argued in the past that black tie might be unnecessary, but the truth is that I, and I think perhaps others are a touch more inclined to be on their best behavior when they dress the part. Don't know.

As I understand it (and wiser brethren I hope will correct me if I'm wrong), libations in Texas lodges were banned at the same time prohibition came about, and it was never changed back when prohibition went down.  But I've not seen written history on that and it may be a legend.

BTW, Holland Lodge #1 has a pub within walking distance to it.  Very convenient, if you can stand the hipster vibe


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## widows son (Apr 7, 2013)

There are a few guys who do have a bit of a problem with alcohol, but they know this and so do the brethren. I would assume that after the meeting they have their pops, but they don't have a drop while in the building. While that is commendable, at the same time it's just sweeping the problem under the rug. The addiction is still there.


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## jwhoff (Apr 7, 2013)

Mac said:


> Sounds like an ideal setup!
> 
> Freemason Connect Mobile



 Nice!  Nice catch Bro Mac, nice indeed.


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