# Is there a specific color and styles for the Worshipful Masters hat.



## amaya14 (May 12, 2017)

I will be in the East next year and I am thinking of Panama fedora white hat, any suggestions 


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## Ripcord22A (May 12, 2017)

Its up to your GL....some specify a very specific hat...others leave it up to the master.  Ive seen cowboy hats, black and white top hats, fedoras and bowlers

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## MarkR (May 13, 2017)

Some jurisdictions require these things.  Not the top hat on the GM, the other one.


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## Brother_Steve (May 13, 2017)

MarkR said:


> Some jurisdictions require these things.  Not the top hat on the GM, the other one.
> View attachment 5737


Well, that is the closest hat I've seen that resembles a "crown" which the hat is supposed to symbolize.


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## amaya14 (May 13, 2017)

Thank you, I will continue looking


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## George Coombs (May 14, 2017)

Just don't wear that frown


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## Keith C (May 15, 2017)

Black top hat mandated in PA.  Check with your GL, if it is permitted, wear what you like.


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## rpbrown (May 15, 2017)

Although not a good picture, this was my hat when I was in the East


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## MWS (May 15, 2017)

Interesting. 
We have never had a requirement to wear a hat...I have never seen one warn by the WM.


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## Ripcord22A (May 15, 2017)

MWS said:


> Interesting.
> We have never had a requirement to wear a hat...I have never seen one warn by the WM.


What GL?

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## MWS (May 15, 2017)

Ripcord, Grand Lodge of Canada in the Province of Ontario.


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## MarkR (May 16, 2017)

Scotland RWM's don't wear a hat.  I don't think English do, either.  In Sweden, everybody does.  We're talking about a primarily American thing here.


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## Elexir (May 16, 2017)

MarkR said:


> Scotland RWM's don't wear a hat.  I don't think English do, either.  In Sweden, everybody does.  We're talking about a primarily American thing here.



I think you mean Denmark not Sweden.
In Denmark all MMs and up wear tophat while as a Swedish MM I dont.


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## Ripcord22A (May 16, 2017)

MWS said:


> Ripcord, Grand Lodge of Canada in the Province of Ontario.


I assumed so, ive spoken to a few brothers on here and elsewhere from Canada and they said no hat. @Bloke do y'all wear a hat @ WMs down under?



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## Bloke (May 16, 2017)

Ripcord22A said:


> I assumed so, ive spoken to a few brothers on here and elsewhere from Canada and they said no hat. @Bloke do y'all wear a hat @ WMs down under?
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my LG-H918 using My Freemasonry mobile app



Nope.


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## Ripcord22A (May 16, 2017)

I wonder where the practice if WMasters wearing hats originated?

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## SimonM (May 16, 2017)

Ripcord22A said:


> I wonder where the practice if WMasters wearing hats originated?
> 
> Sent from my LG-H918 using My Freemasonry mobile app



My guess would be that everyone had hats 200years ago, when fashion changed some felt  that hats where important and mandated that some or all of the brothers should wear them in lodge. After that GLs start to improve and change the design and add symbolism to it.


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## chrmc (May 16, 2017)

Ripcord22A said:


> I wonder where the practice if WMasters wearing hats originated?
> 
> Sent from my LG-H918 using My Freemasonry mobile app



I've no historical evidence to base this on, but have been told that it is often connected with the concept of a "free" man. In some jurisdictions, like the US, the Master was covered, because it was a show of his station. Probably inspired by kings etc. 
In others it was a sign of being a free man that you wore a hat, which is why all Masons do that in some countries. 

Again, no idea if there is any truth to this, but makes sense to me.


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## Warrior1256 (May 16, 2017)

SimonM said:


> My guess would be that everyone had hats 200years ago,


Good an opinion as any that I have heard.


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## Warrior1256 (May 16, 2017)

Other than the lodge supplied "crown" style hats the only kind that I have seen a WM wear around here is a black fedora style.


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## Scoops (May 16, 2017)

MarkR said:


> Scotland RWM's don't wear a hat.  I don't think English do, either.  In Sweden, everybody does.  We're talking about a primarily American thing here.


Indeed, we don't wear a hat here south of the border.

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## MarkR (May 17, 2017)

Elexir said:


> I think you mean Denmark not Sweden.
> In Denmark all MMs and up wear tophat while as a Swedish MM I dont.


Thanks for the correction.


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## JanneProeliator (May 19, 2017)

Wait a minute!
I know I have only been in two lodge meetings so far but no one was wearing any hats...


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## Bloke (May 19, 2017)

JanneProeliator said:


> Wait a minute!
> I know I have only been in two lodge meetings so far but no one was wearing any hats...


Customs vary from Jurisdiction to Jurisdiction..


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## Warrior1256 (May 19, 2017)

Bloke said:


> Customs vary from Jurisdiction to Jurisdiction..


Very true.


JanneProeliator said:


> Wait a minute!
> I know I have only been in two lodge meetings so far but no one was wearing any hats...


What jurisdiction are you in?


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## Brother JC (May 19, 2017)

Ripcord22A said:


> I wonder where the practice if WMasters wearing hats originated?


Yet another American innovation.


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## oldjumpmaster (May 19, 2017)

MarkR said:


> Some jurisdictions require these things.  Not the top hat on the GM, the other one.
> View attachment 5737



Does anyone know the name of this hat?


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## Thomas Stright (May 19, 2017)

JanneProeliator said:


> Wait a minute!
> I know I have only been in two lodge meetings so far but no one was wearing any hats...



WM here always has a cowboy hat on. 


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## JanneProeliator (May 20, 2017)

Warrior1256 said:


> Very true.
> 
> What jurisdiction are you in?


Under Grand Lodge of Finland


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## Elexir (May 20, 2017)

Intressting fact, the GL of Finland is F&AM and has its charter from New York.


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## JanneProeliator (May 20, 2017)

Elexir said:


> Intressting fact, the GL of Finland is F&AM and has its charter from New York.


That is true. If I'm correct that is different in all the other Scandinavian countries.


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## Elexir (May 20, 2017)

Yes, F&AM or anything else is not used at all but we use the term order of freemasons instead.


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## Ripcord22A (May 20, 2017)

Elexir said:


> Intressting fact, the GL of Finland is F&AM and has its charter from New York.


How does a GL have a charter?

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## Bloke (May 20, 2017)

Ripcord22A said:


> How does a GL have a charter?
> 
> Sent from my LG-H918 using My Freemasonry mobile app


GLs can declare themselves or be chartered by another GL. 

Even if the declare themselves they will still have Foundation Documents. Some have a declaration, we have Articles of Union.... maybe people also call these charters ?


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## Matt L (May 20, 2017)

I wore a black Homburg while in the east.


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## Brother JC (May 20, 2017)

Back in NM it was 90% cowboy hats, about 8% fedoras, and the random Homberg.
My lodge in Cali has had the same Master since I joined and he wears his grandfather's top hat.


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## Bill Lins (May 20, 2017)

Ripcord22A said:


> How does a GL have a charter?


Generally, US GLs hold corporate charters from the states in which they are located, often for tax purposes. Not the same as the charter (or warrant) issued to a subordinate Lodge by its Grand Lodge.


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## Elexir (May 20, 2017)

Ripcord22A said:


> How does a GL have a charter?
> 
> Sent from my LG-H918 using My Freemasonry mobile app



Easy, its the charter they had to create lodges in the first place.


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## Ripcord22A (May 21, 2017)

Elexir said:


> Easy, its the charter they had to create lodges in the first place.


My understanding is that a GL charters subordinate lodges...then if these lodges are in an area with no GL and there are at least 3 lodges in that area they can join together and form a GL and in doing so they then turn in the charters to the orig GL then issue charters to those 3 lodges, but the GL doesn't have a charter.

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## Elexir (May 21, 2017)

Thats was what the meaning behind what I said, sometimes I dont get my point across in english though. The GL of NY charterd the first lodges as well as giving the rituals.


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## Warrior1256 (May 21, 2017)

Ripcord22A said:


> My understanding is that a GL charters subordinate lodges...then if these lodges are in an area with no GL and there are at least 3 lodges in that area they can join together and form a GL and in doing so they then turn in the charters to the orig GL then issue charters to those 3 lodges, but the GL doesn't have a charter.





Elexir said:


> Thats was what the meaning behind what I said, sometimes I dont get my point across in english though. The GL of NY charterd the first lodges as well as giving the rituals.


Got it. Thanks for the info.


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## Ripcord22A (May 21, 2017)

Elexir said:


> Thats was what the meaning behind what I said, sometimes I dont get my point across in english though. The GL of NY charterd the first lodges as well as giving the rituals.


No worries bro! I wasnt sure cause every jurisdiction is different, especially over seas

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## Glen Cook (May 21, 2017)

Ripcord22A said:


> My understanding is that a GL charters subordinate lodges...then if these lodges are in an area with no GL and there are at least 3 lodges in that area they can join together and form a GL and in doing so they then turn in the charters to the orig GL then issue charters to those 3 lodges, but the GL doesn't have a charter.
> 
> Sent from my LG-H918 using My Freemasonry mobile app


Just as a clarification: a GL can establish  another GL. See Page 7, Pt 1. http://ugle.org.uk/document-archive...for-the-guidance-of-members-of-the-craft/file


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## Ripcord22A (May 21, 2017)

Glen Cook said:


> Just as a clarification: a GL can establish  another GL. See Page 7, Pt 1. http://ugle.org.uk/document-archive...for-the-guidance-of-members-of-the-craft/file


Can of worms opened....
1)it says "His revealed will....." What if the candidate belives in a female deity?
2)it talks about sovernign jurisdiction, how do provincial GLs fit in to that as they are over the lodges but the GL is over them?
3)it says "no Masonic Intercourse.......with bodies that admit women to membership" so if they are saying that having Masonic Intercourse with bodies that admit women(Eastern Star) makes you clandestine, are they essentially saying that all GLs, that allow their membership to join OES, are clandestine?  Or is the thought that OES isnt "Masonic Communication?" 

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## Glen Cook (May 21, 2017)

Ripcord22A said:


> Can of worms opened....
> 1)it says "His revealed will....." What if the candidate belives in a female deity?
> 2)it talks about sovernign jurisdiction, how do provincial GLs fit in to that as they are over the lodges but the GL is over them?
> 3)it says "no Masonic Intercourse.......with bodies that admit women to membership" so if they are saying that having Masonic Intercourse with bodies that admit women(Eastern Star) makes you clandestine, are they essentially saying that all GLs, that allow their membership to join OES, are clandestine?  Or is the thought that OES isnt "Masonic Communication?"
> ...


Noting I do not speak for UGLE...

1.  Hmm. Perhaps it is using the masculine pronoun as inclusive in the way we refer to man, but refer to mankind?  

2. Correct,  PGLs are not sovereign. They are an administrative device. They do not warrant lodges or issue GL certificates to members. 

3. OES is the body which admits women, not GLs. It is OES which can't play in our club.


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## Ripcord22A (May 21, 2017)

Glen Cook said:


> Noting I do not speak for UGLE...
> 
> 1.  Hmm. Perhaps it is using the masculine pronoun as inclusive in the way we refer to man, but refer to mankind?
> 
> ...


Well Id say your our resident UGLE expert....lol....thanks for clarify that.

Btw...i sent you a PM

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## BullDozer Harrell (May 21, 2017)

Bloke said:


> GLs can declare themselves or be chartered by another GL.
> 
> Even if the declare themselves they will still have Foundation Documents. Some have a declaration, we have Articles of Union.... maybe people also call these charters ?


???


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## Brother JC (May 21, 2017)

And to really stir the pot, how about the one US GL that was formed by individual Masons, not a group of Lodges?


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## Warrior1256 (May 21, 2017)

Brother JC said:


> And to really stir the pot, how about the one US GL that was formed by individual Masons, not a group of Lodges?


Which one was that?


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## Brother JC (May 21, 2017)

NJ


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## Warrior1256 (May 21, 2017)

Brother JC said:


> NJ


Cool!


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## Bloke (May 22, 2017)

BullDozer Harrell said:


> ???


I think Bro Glen covered this



Glen Cook said:


> Just as a clarification: a GL can establish  another GL. See Page 7, Pt 1. http://ugle.org.uk/document-archive...for-the-guidance-of-members-of-the-craft/file


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## Glen Cook (May 22, 2017)

Brother JC said:


> And to really stir the pot, how about the one US GL that was formed by individual Masons, not a group of Lodges?


I recollect a consensus that TN was formed by a convention of Masons


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## Brother JC (May 22, 2017)

Glen Cook said:


> I recollect a consensus that TN was formed by a convention of Masons



It was originally the GL of NC & TN, and then TN formed its own, but I was pretty certain several lodges were involved. I'll have to dig into my files for my sources, but I researched it previously as part of GLNM's genealogy.


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## Brother JC (May 22, 2017)

"On December 27, 1813, in Knoxville, representatives for eight Lodges met and formed the Grand Lodge of Tennessee."
There we go...


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