# Have you read the entire Bible?



## Blake Bowden (Feb 22, 2010)

Have you read the entire Bible?


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## JTM (Feb 22, 2010)

yea, put it on the back of my toilet and read a few pages a day for a long while.  after a while, was done with the old testament.  was surprised how it seemed how fast the thing went.


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## Traveling Man (Mar 1, 2010)

I have enjoyed reading most of the other revisions of the bible as well as many other vsls.


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## ShadyGrove821 (May 25, 2010)

A number of years ago, I tried to slog my way through the King James Version. The 400 year old English is pretty, but rather difficult for me to follow.

I did some research on later English translations, and chose for my Old Testament: The Jewish Study Bible.
http://www.amazon.com/Jewish-Study-Bible-Publication-Translation/dp/0195297512
Somewhat different from Christian Old Testaments, and containing copious footnotes. A real education for me.

For my New Testament reading, I chose the Holman Christian Standard Bible.
http://www.amazon.com/Holy-Bible-Holman-Christian-Standard/dp/1586400681

It took me over three months to make my way through, but I'm glad I persevered.


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## MikeMay (Mar 12, 2011)

I have several times.  I don't attempt the King James anymore, it gives me a headache with all the Thee's Thou's and thus's...I use the New International and the New American Standard Versions for my studies...


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## Martin O (Mar 12, 2011)

I have but I'm enjoying using an iPhone app called "bible" it allows me to flip between many different translations on the fly and allows me to set notations


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## jwhoff (Mar 13, 2011)

I've been all over it.  And, with the help of Cecil B. DeMille, Charlton Heston, Yul Brenner, Mel Brooks and others, I suspect I've covered 98 percent.  Spend a lot of time in Sunday School in the old days.  Have also delved into other sacred texts as well.  My commit would be that yes, the King James version does appear to have fallen from favor.  It's noticeable too.  Candidates have a very hard time with the centex of the KJV:  especially when you mix it with Texas SPEAK.

_post script_:
Thanks too to Disney and others for converting many of the Vedas to adventure stories along the way.


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## bgs942 (Mar 13, 2011)

Blue Letter Bible has a great iPhone app as well. I have to say I still prefer the KJV but these days the giant print edition of it. LOL


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## Frater Cliff Porter (Mar 13, 2011)

Several versions.  The NASB remains my fav.


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## fairmanjd (Mar 13, 2011)

I actually have an affinity for the King James. Probably because its what I grew up on. My favorite Bible is my 1611 Edition King James Version. The old language imparts a certain feeling of reverence to me.
The way I see it though, the best version of the Bible is the one you'll read.


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## jwhoff (Mar 13, 2011)

fairmanjd said:


> I actually have an affinity for the King James. Probably because its what I grew up on. My favorite Bible is my 1611 Edition King James Version. The old language imparts a certain feeling of reverence to me.
> The way I see it though, the best version of the Bible is the one you'll read.



Gentlemen, I suppose we are all aware that the KJV was edited by a brother mason.  I think I'll throw a poll at you to test your skills.


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## Frater Cliff Porter (Mar 14, 2011)

http://www.amazon.com/One-Year-Bibl...6928/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1300109568&sr=8-2

For those seeking to have a "system" by which to tackle this hefty read, there are a number of "One Year" Bibles designed to take you through the book, cover to cover in 365 readings.

Above is the NASB version, but NIV, KJ, ESB, etc. are all available


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## tom268 (Mar 14, 2011)

I have never read the book from cover to cover, but I work much with biblical texts in my masonic books, and I surely have read all parts of the bible in parts. I usually use the Luther Version of 1984 or the catholic german standard bible, as our ritual contains several phrases taken from pseudo-apocryphics like Book of Wisdom or Jesus Sirach (_*Ecclesiasticus)*_.


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## Brent Heilman (Mar 14, 2011)

I have read it cover to cover many times. My grandfather was a preacher so it was a day-to-day part of my life growing up. I still have a love of the King James Version and use it most of the time but our Church has leaned toward the NIV. I use Bible Gateway on my iPhone and online. It has just about any version you could dream of in just about any language, and they also can include the Deuterocanonical (Apocrypha) books.


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## Bro.BruceBenjamin (Mar 19, 2011)

Yes I have 3 or 4 times.


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## Beathard (Mar 20, 2011)

I voted yes under the assumption you meant the current canon of the bible. I was a theology major in college and read many additional books that are not approved by one of the organized churches. Luther removed 7 books. The catholic church removed many more. Some theologians believe there are as many as 600 books belonging to the early bible. One of my favorites is Solomon's Book of Wisdom. I also enjoyed studying the 14 books of the Apocrypha.


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## Jacob Johnson (Apr 11, 2011)

I've read the bible cover to cover several times. I used to want to be a pastor, and spent much of my time reading the bible. The first few times I did it cover to cover, but tbh, you get bogged down in Genesis that way. several times i used the "bible in a year" type of programs, and more recently I've spent time with a parallel translation of the Torah in Hebrew and English. My goal is to eventually learn enough hebrew, greek, and latin to read as much of the bible from the early texts as possible.


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## jwhoff (Apr 14, 2011)

Jacob Johnson said:


> I've read the bible cover to cover several times. I used to want to be a pastor, and spent much of my time reading the bible. The first few times I did it cover to cover, but tbh, you get bogged down in Genesis that way. several times i used the "bible in a year" type of programs, and more recently I've spent time with a parallel translation of the Torah in Hebrew and English. My goal is to eventually learn enough hebrew, greek, and latin to read as much of the bible from the early texts as possible.


 

I had an older friend back in Lake Charles (LA) who did the same.  He eventually received a DD degree with a specialty in Greek, of all things.  Of course, he was well versed in Hebrew and Latin as well.  Anyway, his desire was to read the Bible in its purest form ... without all the hoopla and translation errors.  Surprise, he said much had been twisted over the years, cultures, and translations.  Most unintentional, but misinterpreted nevertheless.  

Last I hear he was in charge of a non-demonational ministry for the poor in the Lake Charles area.  

Anyway, he got there from here.  If one struggles long enough, light will develop.

These are the guys who ruin opportunities to make lots of money for the rest of us selling differences as opposed to our agreed upon beliefs.  To top it all off, these folks prove most of our spats are about misinterpretations anyway.

Go figure!


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## Bro. Bennett (Apr 17, 2011)

jwhoff said:


> Anyway, he got there from here.  If one struggles long enough, light will develop.
> 
> To top it all off, these folks prove most of our spats are about misinterpretations anyway.
> 
> Go figure!


 
I have read the Bible many times in my quest for LIGHT, and for my studies in the ministry. I too have read many of the "lost" or left out books that did not make it into our modern book. With the study of these additional texts, the KJ, along with several other translations, one can have a much broader understanding of the purest Biblical meanings we should apply to our lives. 

I highly suggest the Broadman Holeman Christian Standard Bible for those wishing to use a modern interpretation of the KJ bible. 

May you all find Light in your daily journey...


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## jwhoff (Apr 17, 2011)

Thanks Brother Bennett.  I'll get one.


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## Kenneth Lottman (Apr 17, 2011)

I have read many different versions of the bible. Growing up I went to a private Lutheran school and we were in the bible more than any other subject. I would have to say my favorite version is Holeman Christian Standard Bible it's alot easier read than the KJV! But I LOVE the bible app on my iPhone that way I can look at many different versions and study different interpretations!


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## Michael Hatley (Apr 23, 2011)

I read the Bible through when I was very young, KJV because that was what my grandparents owned.  My best friend had died, and it was a difficult time.  No doubt I did not understand much of what I was reading, but I became an altar boy after which was a positive experience.

I've not studied it in a completion direction way as an adult, but when I pick up the Bible now its the Oxford Annotated version.  Personally I find things that didn't make Constantine's muster interesting, like the Book of Thomas and the like.  The intersection with Buddhism, or at least eastern thought is made manifest in those - in my opinion.


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## ptah khafre (May 20, 2011)

Bro.BruceBenjamin said:


> Yes I have 3 or 4 times.



So all surely know that it is plagarized form older more ancient texts of the Negroids, Africans called Sumerians in Mesoptamia.  Such texts are the Enuma Elish, Gilgamesh Epics, and others that have been watered down in English KJV and others versions to hoodwink and control the minds of the masses.  And if you do not know the language (signs and symbols) that the original scriptures were revealed/reveiled in you are lost to the author's stories and mistranslations. It conveys a very, very different story, not his-story, her-story - ourstory, my-stories, called mysteries, all taken or stolen from the Ancient Egiptian Mystery System of the reality of just from whence you came.  And the many others that followed or came that same way to learn the Wisdom of the Ancient Egiptians from whence all Masonry was planed - its true roots in Egipt, the land of the Negroids.  These are all ancient truths and lost facts that all Masons show know by now, particurlary if well read, traveled and not blinded by the light of ignorance.  What secrets lie in the Lost Word or revealed word of GOD, or Anunnaki, Anakim, or Eloheem.  Well, all brothers in the lodge should know this if they truly study to rightly divide or divine the word, to show themselves approved in this book placed on the sacred altar of Freemasonry ; great light (knowledge) found in the quarries of Masonry for what it is.  As Masons we should know the facts which can be found worldover in plain view on the walls of the many strutures in African and in the museums or libraries.  Many noted and celebrated authorities on religion, philosophy and science know this. Once initiated in the lodge and so-called "higher" degrees, such secrets of the words, meanings, etc in the VSL or Holy Writings are made know to a brother Mason, if this knowledge or light is available and it is in many lodges from time and immemorial.  It is his choice to know and travel as far as he wants toward the truth and reality of many questions that have been answered for many years. Well, continue to RE-add (read) and keep the secrets sacred or sacred secret.  No beliefs, legends, and myths just confirmed facts or truth in the Masonic Lodge.  Truth is a divine attribute and the foundation of every good virtue and one of the first lessons we are taught as Masons.  Learn the truth by learning the language that veiled (concealed/hid) allegories in this beautiful system of morality. The Bible is quite a book to read and learn from.  That is what we said we came to the lodge to do, is learn... so you have to RE-add (read) this great light and know just what is in it. What it means to subdue passions, because many brothers will get emotion about this post based on belief or indoctrination of what they have been taught rather than re-searching the facts as Masons have vowed to do etc.  To be fair and upright man and Mason.   Improve your self in the Great and Sacred work of Our Craft.


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## rhitland (May 20, 2011)

Have not made it through it yet but I am reading any VSL I can get my hands on.


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## TCShelton (Jun 13, 2011)

Yep.  And the whole Koran, Torah, and a bunch of others.


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## THemenway (Jul 10, 2011)

I am going through it now, for the first time. I joined a Men's Bible study group. Turned out that 4 of the 5 members are Masons!
They are older, very wise gentlemen and have welcomed me with open arms. I am very appreciative of them.


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## calee (Jul 11, 2011)

I have a New King James version to read and the New Living Translation on CD, I listen to it while I'm driving.


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## cog41 (Sep 6, 2011)

Yes.

Prefer the New American Standard and New King James for study. 
Prefer the English Standard Version and New International Version for reading.


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## Cigarzan (May 25, 2012)

I haven't read it through and neither do I know that I ever will.  But, from what I have read, I'm in favor of it!


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## BryanMaloney (May 27, 2012)

ptah khafre said:


> So all surely know that it is plagarized form older more ancient texts of the Negroids, Africans called Sumerians in Mesoptamia.



The funny thing about claiming "plagiarism" with such a work is that there is no way to tell which way the "plagiarism" went. That far back, the Sumerians could have simply written down the oral traditions of the Hebrews and claimed them for their own. If the Hebrews didn't yet have writing, who could argue?


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## CajunTinMan (Oct 12, 2012)

I'm in Lake Charles. I would be very interested in talking to him if you know where I could  locate him.


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## CajunTinMan (Oct 12, 2012)

BryanMaloney said:


> The funny thing about claiming "plagiarism" with such a work is that there is no way to tell which way the "plagiarism" went. That far back, the Sumerians could have simply written down the oral traditions of the Hebrews and claimed them for their own. If the Hebrews didn't yet have writing, who could argue?


That has ways been an argument of mine also.  I think few people stop to consider that.


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## widows son (Oct 13, 2012)

Growing up in catholic schools we had to, especially the new testament. I've done it a few times in the past.


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## jwhoff (Nov 6, 2012)

CajunTinMan said:


> I'm in Lake Charles. I would be very interested in talking to him if you know where I could  locate him.



My old home town!  I missed it.  Who are you trying to locate?


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## CajunTinMan (Nov 7, 2012)

Your friend you were speaking of in Lake Charles


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## Phre-massen.nash (Dec 12, 2012)

I am Jewish but study all forms of Religion.  My favorite VSL is the Catholic Bible, because it contains some stories, and books that many people do not know about.


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## crono782 (Dec 12, 2012)

I'm a KJV man, myself. I haven't read it all the way through. I've read most of the New Testament and A few books of the Old Testament, but certainly not in sequence, just in snippets here and there over the years. I ought to try the audio version some time and maybe I could get through it all. Although audio isn't very ideal for study.


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## STLamb (Dec 27, 2012)

I use a canonical reading plan I got from Rick Warren's website here: http://saddlebackmediawest.s3.amazo...618732&Signature=LHptwGWQhp0lgIPeUHOhxXotsX0= Every year, I start on a new translation. For example, this year, I did the NIV - Starting January 1, I will start with the NASB. I have done the NLT in the past, but haven't had the gumption to work up to the KJV yet. I also recommend an app called You Version on android. great if you want an electronic bible. 
Update: if the link doesn't work, try this one, and look for reading plans: http://purposedriven.com/books/pdlbook/#purpose


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## jwhoff (Dec 28, 2012)

crono782 said:


> I'm a KJV man, myself. I haven't read it all the way through. I've read most of the New Testament and A few books of the Old Testament, but certainly not in sequence, just in snippets here and there over the years.




I ask each of my new candidates if they have ever read the KJV or the works of Shakespeare.  This is a good gauge as to how hard it will be to get them in the right verbiage ... :7: ... at least until we run into the Texacan verbiage :32:.


_Life is but a tire swing_!


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## widows son (Jan 17, 2013)

I find myself reading passages out of the bible. My favorite quote is when God banishes Adam and Eve, and says "in death you truly will die" and " to the dust you shall return". IMO one the most true literal statements to be found in the bible.


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## crono782 (Jan 17, 2013)

I've started on a one year reading plan and I'm doing good so far. Using the YouVersion app. Unfortunately, the one year plan I'm doing is only for NLT version. It's actually easier to read, but not as "bibley" sounding.


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## jwhoff (Jan 20, 2013)

I believe we can take those both literally ... and to the bank.:mellow:


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## otherstar (Mar 6, 2013)

I've read the entire New Testament and probably 80 percent (if not more) of the Old. My preferred translations are the New American Bible (raised Catholic, and I'm used to the translation), and the New Revised Standard Version-Catholic edition (can't seem to shake my Catholic heritage, I like some of the "extra" books in the Catholic version of the Old Testament). For more casual reading, I like the New International Version.


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## CzarAlexis (Aug 24, 2013)

I have read the New International Version (NIV) cover to cover. I'm currently reading the New Living Translation Paraphrased. 


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## safehouse (Sep 11, 2013)

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## safehouse (Sep 11, 2013)

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## LittleHunter (Sep 17, 2013)

Studying parts of the OT in Hebrew, parts of the NT in Greek, trying to understand cultural context and seeking translations based on different extant versions of various texts have given me a nuanced take on "The Bible." For me it is, and always will be, a library, an anthology, a collection of books about our Creator ... Not a monolithic manual or lawbook written by Him.


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## Brother JC (Sep 17, 2013)

safehouse said:


> In addition to that Virginia Rammey Mollencott one of the lead translators is a prominent figure in the Gay and Lesbian movement a lifestyle that is not in key with the writings or the spirit of the txt, yet she has made major adjustments to it to make her sexuality agenda fit. She has not got the write or anyone on change those txts.


You might want to check your facts (and your conspiracy theory). Dr. Mollenkott was a consultant hired by the translators five years into the project.
Several decades ago it was proven that our former ability to translate ancient languages was quite flawed, thus the meeting at Trinity Christian College in 1965 and the decision to have the New York Bible Society revisit the original texts.


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## safehouse (Sep 20, 2013)

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## Brother JC (Sep 21, 2013)

safehouse said:


> I wonder would our constitutions accept the New Inclusive language version of the NIV ? As the volume upon which to take our oaths. I think not


Our Constitutions do not stipulate which translation may or may not be used, but I must say, in all candor, that any Lodge that inspects a Candidate's Bible, and may reject him because of its translation, is no Lodge that I wish to sit in, more or less join.



safehouse said:


> Peace and harmony brother


Agreed, Brother. This is why we forbid these conversations in Lodge.


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## safehouse (Sep 21, 2013)

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## Brother JC (Sep 21, 2013)

Given that, I doubt a seeker of our Light would wish to use such a version.

But I still become defensive at the thought of inspecting personal Bibles.


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## safehouse (Sep 21, 2013)

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## BryanMaloney (Sep 21, 2013)

safehouse said:


> Just wondering how accommodating lodges should go, in terms of translations, because if the translation of the New inclusive language version of the NIV is rejected as a bible by the Trinitarian and international Bible societies then should the Lodges accept such a translation. ?



If it is meet and proper to reject a specific translation of the Bible to represent the Volume of Sacred Law, then it would be equally proper to reject the Koran. After all, the Koran differs from the KJV even more than does any English version of the Bible.


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## LittleHunter (Sep 22, 2013)

This is an interesting discussion. When I was raised it was explained that although the Lodge's Bible is the "default" VSL that we should take our oathsnon whatever VSL we personally adhere to whether it be the Torah, the Koran, the Dammapada or a particular translation of The Bible. Personally, Id rather see a new Brother take his oaths on the book he believes in rather than one that he doesn't


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## safehouse (Sep 22, 2013)

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## LittleHunter (Sep 22, 2013)

safehouse said:


> It's interesting discussion, And one we need be careful about. Revelations 22 says clearly not to alter the words of the bible so the real question is, what version of the Volume of the sacred law is acceptable? And who decides that ?
> 
> 
> My Freemasonry HD



Wait a minute, nobody is talking about re-writing anyone's scripture. As a non-Christian I support The idea Of Lodges using non Christian scriptures as a VOL.  A non sectarian and tolerant Feternity is the Masonry I was taught. Maybe in some jurisdictions it's only for those who revere the King James versiÃ³n of The Bible as a valid VOL but that's news to me. Let's be real... If it's wrong to "change" anything in the Bible should we play it safe and be using The Hebrew and Greek versions?


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## safehouse (Sep 22, 2013)

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## dfreybur (Sep 22, 2013)

safehouse said:


> what version of the Volume of the sacred law is acceptable? And who decides that ?



In the California Masonic Code does give a minimum list of VSLs authorized by vote of GL that can be expanded by the GM.  It does not specify version of any of them.  So far I've never encountered a brother who wants a specific version, but the month isn't over yet so I never know ...

I'm not comfortable with having a list at all because the keystone of qualification is the question on the petition so there should be no list of authorized religions.  At least some religions teach that an oath is in force independent of swearing on any book.

Â§402.060.  ALTERNATE HOLY WRITINGS.

A candidate for a degree in Masonry may select an alternate Holy Writings on which he will be obligated, but only under the following circumstances: 


21
A.       If the candidate does not wish to be obligated on the Holy Bible, he must select an alternate Holy Writings in book form from a list promulgated from time to time by the Grand Master of the Holy Writings of those recognized religions whose theology is not inconsistent with a belief in a Supreme Being and a future existence.  The Grand Master’s list shall at all times include the al-Kitab

 al-Aqdas of Bahaism, the Tripitaka of Buddhism, the Analects of Confucianism, the Vedas of Hinduism, the Koran of Islam, the Tanach of Judaism, the Koji-ki of Shintoism, the Adi Granth of Sikhism, the Tao-te Ching of Taoism and the Zend Avesta of Zoroastrianism.  In selecting an alternate Holy Writings, the candidate must state that the book chosen is the Holy Writings of his religious faith; 

B.        The particular book selected for use on the altar during the ceremonies of a candidate’s degrees must be of a suitable size as determined by the Ritual Committee; 

C.        Grand Lodge shall make available all books on the list.  Grand Lodge shall loan any book on the list upon request to a Lodge which requires it for a degree; 

D.        The book selected shall remain on the altar throughout the meeting during which it is used for a candidate’s degree, unless the Lodge schedules more than one candidate to receive a degree at a meeting and all candidates receiving a degree on that occasion will not be obligated on the same book of Holy Writings.  In that event, the book shall be changed when the Lodge is at refreshment between the degrees; 

E.         When an alternate Holy Writings is used during a degree, a closed Holy Bible of any size must be on the altar; and 

F.         Alternate Holy Writings may be used only at a Lodge meeting during which a candidate selecting the alternate Holy Writings receives a degree and on no other occasion. 

[Source:  Section 26295 of the 1991 California Masonic Code.]


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## safehouse (Sep 22, 2013)

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## dfreybur (Sep 22, 2013)

dfreybur said:


> The Grand Master’s list shall at all times include the al-Kitab al-Aqdas of Bahaism, the Tripitaka of Buddhism, the Analects of Confucianism, the Vedas of Hinduism, the Koran of Islam, the Tanach of Judaism, the Koji-ki of Shintoism, the Adi Granth of Sikhism, the Tao-te Ching of Taoism and the Zend Avesta of Zoroastrianism.



I don't know if I've read all or just part of - al-Kitab and Tripitaka.  A couple of weeks ago I finished a list of Buddhist legendary books but I don't know if all of the parts of the Tripitaka were included.  I have more Ba'hai books in my queue so I might complete al-Kitab in the next year or so.

I've read all of - Analects, Koran, Tenach (Old Testament), Tao-Te Ching, Holy Bible (Old and New Testaments)

On my reading list - Vedas, Koji-ki, Adi Granth, Zend Avesta.  And any other VSL I can find in English translation.

Interesting choice for Hindu.  I've read Baghavat Gita and I'm currently going through the Ramanyana.  I would have expected either Gita or Upanishads rather that the Vedas.


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## LittleHunter (Sep 22, 2013)

The Hymn to Purusha in the Vedas is amazing. The sage who composed it was definitely a monotheist who received a profound, cosmic vision of God... It's really mind-blowing


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## safehouse (Sep 22, 2013)

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## LittleHunter (Sep 22, 2013)

I've only read small parts of the Zohar. That's some pretty deep stuff. Some of it I understand...some of it just makes me feel really ignorant, lol!


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## BryanMaloney (Sep 23, 2013)

safehouse said:


> It's interesting discussion, And one we need be careful about. Revelations 22 says clearly not to alter the words of the bible so the real question is, what version of the Volume of the sacred law is acceptable? And who decides that ?



And when a Koran is that VSL? What about a Bhagavad Gita? How about a Book of Thoth (for the rare Sabean who might show up)? As for claims about what Rev. 22 says about the Bible as a whole--what is your familiarity with Greek and with the assembly of Scripture? "The Bible" did not exist as a single "book" for quite some time after Revelation was written. That is "this book" could simply refer only to Revelation and not any of the other "books" of the Bible. Ever notice that each portion of the Bible is referred to as a "book" in its own right? The ancient use of "book" confirms this. What we now call a "book" in common English was originally called a "codex". In the 5th century AD, Isadore of Seville explained that "A codex is composed of many books; a book is of one scroll. It is called 'codex' by way of metaphor for the trunks of trees or vines, as if it were a wooden stock, because it contains in itself a multitude of books, as if it were of branches."

 Likewise, there are quotations within the New Testament that make it quite plain that it was the Septuagint (LXX) that was the "Old Testament" preferred by Christ and the Apostles and not the "Masoretic". Thus, the KJV would not qualify as being "not altered" if the prohibition were to apply to the Bible as a whole. In addition, the so-called "Apocrypha" were originally part of the KJV but were later omitted. Does this mean that the "inspired" KJV actually has been "altered"? Placing your trust in a single English translation is not borne out by the history of Canonical assembly nor by the history of that specific translation in the first place.

Finally, up through the early 200s there were still disputes over whether or not Revelation even belonged in the Bible or should be considered a "secondary" work of some sort. Where would that put it in terms of "this book" it referred to?


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## jvarnell (Sep 23, 2013)

safehouse said:


> It's interesting discussion, And one we need be careful about. Revelations 22 says clearly not to alter the words of the bible so the real question is, what version of the Volume of the sacred law is acceptable? And who decides that ?
> My Freemasonry HD



I see it as translation as not altering the word.  I think it says to not alter the meaning of the word.  When you read Revelations 22 you did it in English and it was written in Greek.  Did you read it in a translation?  The problems it not were the words altered but the meaning.  I see this in 22:19.  I have read the bible in 3 def. versions.  Mohammed went as far as saying don't write this down  just pass it on moth to ear so was writing the Quran down by his uncle a problem.  I have read it only in one version as I have the Gita and Zohar.  

I don't see that when I discuss any of these with people of other religions (friends) I understand them deferent than they do except one.  It is when we take a translation and use our word as fact and not meaning we go wrong.  This is why I am always trying understand why others understand thing the way they do.  It is not to inforce my opinion but to try and understand theirs.


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## Lowcarbjc (Sep 23, 2013)

At what stage did the latin word Lucifer start to appear in bibles?


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## Brother JC (Sep 23, 2013)

Lowcarbjc said:


> At what stage did the latin word Lucifer start to appear ?



The late 4th-century Vulgate. It's a shame, too, because heōsphoros sounds so much cooler.


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## BryanMaloney (Sep 24, 2013)

safehouse said:


> I understand it that the AV authorised version r King James Version are direct translations from
> Hebrew and Greek. The NIV however is a translation from Latin late 16th century Vulgate txts. The new inclusive language version of the NIV for instance is a translation from mans ideas and mans desire on how they think the scriptures should be interpreted.



Whoever told you that is a bald-faced liar. The NIV is translated directly from Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek texts. It is a new translation that was not based on older translations. This is one reason for some differences in wording. In addition, different Greek versions were used for the NIV vs. the KJV. The Textus Receptus of the KJV actually has more Latin Vulgate in it than does the "critical text" used by the NIV, which is heavily influenced by the Alexandrian texts. The KJV Textus receptus is an inferior text, based on only 6 partial manuscripts, and it had several gaps, including in the New Testament. So Erasmus ended up back-translating some Latin Vulgate. There are complete non-critical texts that do tend to adhere to traditional interpretations, such as the Byzantine texts, but even the Alexandrian texts do not deviate far. 

Actually, when the NIV came out in the 1980s the big problem that it was considered to have was that it was too "pro-Evangelical" in its "translation" choices. As its own organization states: "The purpose of the Committee shall be to prepare a contemporary English  translation of the Bible as a collegiate endeavor of evangelical  scholars" and membership was restricted to those "who are willing to subscribe to the following affirmation of faith: ‘The  Bible alone, and the Bible in its entirety, is the Word of God written,  and is therefore inerrant in the autographs’; or to the statements on  Scripture in the Westminster Confession, the Belgic Confession, the New  Hampshire Confession, or the creedal basis of the National Association  of Evangelicals; or to some other comparable statement". Indeed, the NIV was originally rife with errors that creep in from attempting to pre-impose a specific Evangelical Protestant interpretation on Scripture. For example, Romans 3:25-26 has the Greek "dikaiosyne Theou", which means "righteousness of God". The NIV originally had "righteousness from God"--very different. It has since been corrected in later editions of the NIV. It also would translate a single Greek word as "traditions" or "teachings" depending on whether or not the word was used negatively or positively. If it is good, it is called "teachings", if it is bad, it is called "traditions". However the Greek word and intended Greek meaning is the same: Teachings = Traditions.

Many, but not all, of these outright translational falsifications have been corrected since the 1980s, which may not have set well with some people. Finally, the NIV did not have "gender neutral language" until 2011. Before then, there was a "TNIV" that used this, but the NIV as such did not.



> But as masons been tolerant is one thing but there are things we should not tolerate, slavery, abuse in all it's forms, poverty, social injustices and distortion a of the truth (new translations)  or deviations away from it or an embracing of things the the VOL deems as dark and speak against.



Your KJV is nothing but a "new translation" from the point of view of my Church. So, for that matter, would any Latin version be. Likewise, are you going to demand that lodges in Germany use the KJV? How about lodges in Italy, in Greece, in Russia? The Russians would look to their far more senior Slavonic and wonder why the new translation of the KJV is any better than the slightly more new translation of the NIV, and the Greeks? They can read the New Testament in the original Greek...


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## LittleHunter (Sep 24, 2013)

My translation of the Bible is The only correct one; God told me so ;-P


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## BroBook (Sep 24, 2013)

I,P&R 1984 I am not neither do I know if I will ever be !


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## BroBook (Sep 24, 2013)

Yes H.I.M. Sends a new translation my way every couple of years since 1981 and read until l I have read the whole thing or it starts to fall a part!


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## NonNobis (Sep 25, 2013)

I have personally translated New Testament scripture from Ancient Greek while pursuing studies at St. John's College. Greek is a very difficult language to translate and many words have a multitude of meanings. Logos, for instance, is taken to mean "word" as in "en arxei en ho logos" or "in the beginning there was the word" of John 1:1. However, logos is also used throughout Greek philosophical texts predating the New Testament to mean thought, speech, idea, plea, opinion, expectation, word, speech, account, reason, etc. The "best" translation, in my humble opinion is either an interlinear Greek (with the Greek and possible translations for each word) or the New World Translation, which I have found to be much more literal and less liberal with the Greek than the King James Version (and I am not a Jehovah's Witness, merely a student of language). I also believe, however, that one should have a very personal experience with their chosen religious text, and while the more literal versions speak to me another translation may better touch the heart of another. Having only been raised earlier this year, I am not a scholar of Masonic Law, but it seems to make sense and be in the spirit of the fraternity to be obligated on the text that most speaks to your personal spiritual journey and holds the highest reverence.

On a side note - I am a first time poster and greatly enjoy reading the opinions of my worthy brethren and finding out more about the nuances of legal Masonic workings from other regions than my own. More than once I have taken a discussion or thought from here to discuss at my home lodge, Joseph W. Summers #173 Morgantown, WV. Many thanks for spreading the light!


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## Brother JC (Sep 25, 2013)

Welcome, Brother. I, too, have gotten inspiration from these threads for educational talks to share with the Brethren.


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## BroBook (Sep 30, 2013)

CajunTinMan said:


> That has ways been an argument of mine also.  I think few people stop to consider that.



I have read a lot of bibles and other "religious books"and non as well , touching upon plagiarism since we as brothers at least I think  
Know that GOD made one man why are we surprised that the different tribes are telling similar stories. One of my favorite verses says that GOD says if we can talk to each other there is nothing we can't accomplish . I found a good/different translation called the lexham study bible under the verbum app.



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## jonesvilletexas (Sep 30, 2013)

Yes, The 1611 KJV, 1 time per year.


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## BryanMaloney (Oct 1, 2013)

jonesvilletexas said:


> Yes, The 1611 KJV, 1 time per year.



And this includes, of course, the so-called "Apocrypha", since they were in the 1611 KJV, I presume. And let us not forget the translators' preface, which is part of the 1611 KJV.


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## BroBook (Oct 2, 2013)

BryanMaloney said:


> And this includes, of course, the so-called "Apocrypha", since they were in the 1611 KJV, I presume. And let us not forget the translators' preface, which is part of the 1611 KJV.



Every time I see a different translation I try to read the preface ( pre- face)


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## dfreybur (Oct 3, 2013)

BryanMaloney said:


> And this includes, of course, the so-called "Apocrypha", since they were in the 1611 KJV, I presume. And let us not forget the translators' preface, which is part of the 1611 KJV.



When I wanted to read the Apocrypha none of my Bible copies had them.  I needed to go get a separate copy.  Thanks for the lesson in what versions have what contents.


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## CuAllaidh (Jan 21, 2014)

Yup, I have read the Bible.

Should point out this poll should have the option of "yes, and my VSL is not the bible"


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## jjjjjggggg (Feb 14, 2014)

Use to read the bible through all the way once a year when I was a Christian.

I've read the Koran (didn't like it), lots of Jewish side texts and rabbinical thought, lots of buddhist texts (favorite being the kalama, metta, and heart sutras).

I've read a lot of samurai texts, miyamoto mushashi's book of five rings my favorite, as well as the bushidoshoshinshu).

Recently I've been into taoist texts, my two most favorite being brian browne walkers translation of the hua hu ching and wei wu wei ching... these being the two I pull most of my spiritual inspiration from.


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## goomba (Feb 14, 2014)

Yes.  I follow Professor Grant Horners Bible Reading Plan.  www.challies.com/sites/all/files/attachments/professor-grant-horners-bible-reading-system.pdf


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## BryanMaloney (Feb 15, 2014)

I heartily suggest that one read the Bible from start to finish, in order. It has been given a particular order, why refuse to use that order? Why do people prefer all these schemes and "methods". Yes, that means you hop around from "subject to subject". LIFE hops around from "subject  to subject". Yes, it means that things tend to repeat in "odd" orders. So does life. Yes, it means that things "pop up out of nowhere" or even "don't come in a logical order". SO DOES LIFE. Scripture is not a novel, to be read and put away. Read it, re-read it from start to finish, in order. Don't abandon thematic study, but if you are "reading" it, then read it as it is, don't cut it up into paper dolls and read it in someone else's order. Read the Bible in the Bible's order. It will be hard. It will be confusing. So is life.


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## eXillmatic (Feb 24, 2014)

BryanMaloney said:


> I heartily suggest that one read the Bible from start to finish, in order. It has been given a particular order, why refuse to use that order? Why do people prefer all these schemes and "methods". Yes, that means you hop around from "subject to subject". LIFE hops around from "subject  to subject". Yes, it means that things tend to repeat in "odd" orders. So does life. Yes, it means that things "pop up out of nowhere" or even "don't come in a logical order". SO DOES LIFE. Scripture is not a novel, to be read and put away. Read it, re-read it from start to finish, in order. Don't abandon thematic study, but if you are "reading" it, then read it as it is, don't cut it up into paper dolls and read it in someone else's order. Read the Bible in the Bible's order. It will be hard. It will be confusing. So is life.



Well said, I've always been a supporter of thematic reading methods, but only after one has already read the bible cover to cover. They are very helpful for focusing on related events, but it still feels "correct" to me to read from cover to cover.


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## Thegentlesoldier (Mar 31, 2014)

I've read the OT 3 times and the NT. 5 times. Each time I learn more. I've taken classes on Old Testament History and New Testament History at Missouri Baptist University. I've learned so much during the re-reading of it. 
We teach the importance of the word inculcate, I do stress the meaning in my Lodge. How many other Brothers instill the value of 'learning through repetition'?


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## Garrettsdaddy (Apr 11, 2014)

Yes several times, when I was a teenager I wanted so bad to become a Minister, I let my father talk me out of it

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## jrmorgan919 (Apr 11, 2014)

Yes and other VSLs 


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## wgarciarivera (Apr 12, 2014)

Yes I have


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## masonicdove (Apr 13, 2014)

Yes


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## promason (Apr 15, 2014)

yes,yes,continue,every day,every day,yes,yes,


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## promason (Apr 15, 2014)

yes,


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## promason (Apr 15, 2014)

blessed and enlighted beginning of week everyone,always honoured and proud to be here,always,always,thanks everyone,yes,yes,yep,


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## Tom Jr. (Apr 15, 2014)

Yep


Spes mea in Deo est


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## Flatworlder (Jul 11, 2014)

Glad I stumbled on this posting. I was thinking what book do I want to read next.. 
What better Book to read then the BOOK of all Books.. 
all 66 books.. that comprise the book.. or is it 73? No matter.. 
The Book..


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## BroBook (Jul 12, 2014)

It is actually 70 the book of psalms is really five Book!!!


Bro Book
M.W.U.G.L. Of Fl: P.H.A.
Excelsior # 43
At pensacola


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## admarcus1 (Jul 12, 2014)

BryanMaloney said:


> I heartily suggest that one read the Bible from start to finish, in order. It has been given a particular order, why refuse to use that order? Why do people prefer all these schemes and "methods". Yes, that means you hop around from "subject to subject". LIFE hops around from "subject  to subject". Yes, it means that things tend to repeat in "odd" orders. So does life. Yes, it means that things "pop up out of nowhere" or even "don't come in a logical order". SO DOES LIFE. Scripture is not a novel, to be read and put away. Read it, re-read it from start to finish, in order. Don't abandon thematic study, but if you are "reading" it, then read it as it is, don't cut it up into paper dolls and read it in someone else's order. Read the Bible in the Bible's order. It will be hard. It will be confusing. So is life.


There is no single order. While very similar, Catholic and Protestant Bibles have differences, different editions over the years have changed. The Jewish Bible, or Tanakh, is not identical to the Christian Old Testament. 


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## BroBook (Jul 12, 2014)

Yes, that was really his overall point "I" think read translation you are reading in the order that the compilers put it unless you are studying a particular subject, and in closing there are  way more "Books"
someone said "If all the things he had begun to do and teach were written I suppose there would not be enough room"


Bro Book
M.W.U.G.L. Of Fl: P.H.A.
Excelsior # 43
At pensacola


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## dfreybur (Jul 15, 2014)

admarcus1 said:


> The Jewish Bible, or Tanakh, is not identical to the Christian Old Testament.



When I found a siding page translation Tanakh I compared the list of books against a King James version.  It's convenient how good books like this appear in the storage chamber under the altar at lodge when a new body starts meeting in your building.  ;^)  I did not see any differences in the tables of contents.  Did I not compare the lists closely enough or do you refer to the translation?  I've read the New Testament all the way through in I think 3 translations and read various parts of the Old Testament in various translations.


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## admarcus1 (Jul 15, 2014)

dfreybur said:


> When I found a siding page translation Tanakh I compared the list of books against a King James version.  It's convenient how good books like this appear in the storage chamber under the altar at lodge when a new body starts meeting in your building.  ;^)  I did not see any differences in the tables of contents.  Did I not compare the lists closely enough or do you refer to the translation?  I've read the New Testament all the way through in I think 3 translations and read various parts of the Old Testament in various translations.




I got my facts a little confused. A number of the books in the Septuagint, the Greek translation of the Bible used by Jews and early Christians, were later removed by Jews as being historical rather than divine. Eventually, they were separated out of the Old Testament and became the Apocrypha, and were usually published as part of the KJV, but apparently not anymore. I believe these books, or at least some of them, are still part if Catholic and Orthodox bibles. 

Translations are definitely different, and within Judaism, you will find a number I'd different translations with varying levels if acceptance. Not too much is made if those differences in religious circles since we read and study in Hebrew. 

Thanks for fact checking me, Brother! A lot of years of religious education has left me a little too sure of myself. Never hurts to be proven wrong from time to time. 


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## BroBook (Jul 15, 2014)

You read Hebrew, (cool)!!! Have not received enough patience yet to learn a second language, still trying to master english after 55 years!!!


Bro Book
M.W.U.G.L. Of Fl: P.H.A.
Excelsior # 43
At pensacola


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## BroBook (Jul 15, 2014)

CuAllaidh said:


> Yup, I have read the Bible.
> 
> Should point out this poll should have the option of "yes, and my VSL is not the bible"


What is your VSL my brother?


Bro Book
M.W.U.G.L. Of Fl: P.H.A.
Excelsior # 43
At pensacola


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## jjjjjggggg (Jul 15, 2014)

Must one only have one volume of sacred law? The bible itself is made of many books.


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## dfreybur (Jul 15, 2014)

admarcus1 said:


> A number of the books in the Septuagint, the Greek translation of the Bible used by Jews and early Christians, were later removed by Jews as being historical rather than divine. Eventually, they were separated out of the Old Testament and became the Apocrypha, and were usually published as part of the KJV, but apparently not anymore. I believe these books, or at least some of them, are still part if Catholic and Orthodox bibles.



The KJV at home when I grew up lacked the Apocrypha so it never occurred to me to look for those books in either the KJV bibles at lodge or in the Tanakh that appeared at lodge.  A couple of years ago I finally got around to reading the Apocrypha so those books I've only seen in one translation so far.

I thought the difference was the books of the Tanakh were written in (Ancient) Hebrew while the books of the Apocrypha were written in (Attic?) Greek therefore I would not have expected to see any books from Apocrypha in the Tenakh.  Hhhm, the word written here probably means the oldest known version is written in that language so the current best scholarship puts their composition in that language.


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## dfreybur (Jul 15, 2014)

jamie.guinn said:


> Must one only have one volume of sacred law?



One of the reasons I try to read the VSL of every faith I can.  They are all sacred to their members and as such sacred to me.  Less directly sacred to me, but sacred nonetheless.


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## admarcus1 (Jul 15, 2014)

BroBook said:


> You read Hebrew, (cool)!!! Have not received enough patience yet to learn a second language, still trying to master english after 55 years!!!
> 
> 
> Bro Book
> ...


It was made easy for me. I started learning modern Hebrew in Kindergarten and Biblical in first grade (I went to Jewish religious private school). We started on Aramaic in 8th grade as we first started studying Talmud. That wasn't too hard because with some letter substitutions and grammar shifts, you can rely on knowledge of Hebrew,'and a short list of key words. 

It definitely helped that Hebrew has been revived as a modern language, so that the classes themselves could be conducted entirely in Hebrew and without translation. 

It's been a long time since school, so I definitely struggle more than I did when I was younger. It helps, though, that the daily prayers are in Hebrew bit keeps it familiar. 

I wish schools would teach second languages as early as mine did. It's so much easier when you are that young. I started learning Frenchnat age 13, and I struggled.  So much easier at 5 or 6. You absorb it like a sponge. 


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## jjjjjggggg (Jul 15, 2014)

dfreybur said:


> One of the reasons I try to read the VSL of every faith I can.  They are all sacred to their members and as such sacred to me.  Less directly sacred to me, but sacred nonetheless.



I agree totally with your sentiments. Not only the typically "sacred" books, but also some books folks wouldn't consider so sacred.


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## Flatworlder (Jul 15, 2014)

After spending a few weeks in this Forum I have found a new language. Brotherhood...The language of brotherhood..


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## Rifleman1776 (Jul 26, 2014)

I should. We all should. I believe the Bible is the inspired word of God. Which means the so-called books that were left out are not part of the Bible. If God intended them to be, they would be part of the Bible. Good history and interesting maybe but not part of the Bible. I don't try to read the whole thing because much is confusing to me. I tend to look for contradictions, old newspapermans habit. e.g early in Genesis it is written God created.....including man and woman. Then later on, it says Adam is lonely and God does the rib thing and gives him woman. Uh-Oh! In my mind, I question, what happened to the woman God created earlier in the chapter? I let my Pastor explain for me on Sundays.
BTW, old Hebrew writings do 'explain' the first woman. Her name was Lilith.


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## ARizo1011 (Aug 17, 2014)

I don't know what bible it was but I read one In high school I had gotten from my grandmother when I was attending church. But I want to buy and read the bible they have on the alter normally for degrees. I just like that it's bigger and looks nice


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## Rifleman1776 (Aug 18, 2014)

ARizo1011 said:


> I don't know what bible it was but I read one In high school I had gotten from my grandmother when I was attending church. But I want to buy and read the bible they have on the alter normally for degrees. I just like that it's bigger and looks nice


 
 I was presented with a Bible when I was raised in Arkansas. It is a large book with many Masonic references. In most large cities there will be a well stocked Christian book store. You should be able to find something that suits you  there. Or, that source of everything books, Amazon.


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## 83cross (Jul 6, 2015)

I need you help Brothers, I'm working on my research about bible verses for 1st 2nd and 3rd degree on Torah and Quran. (Islamic influence within masonry)


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## dfreybur (Jul 6, 2015)

83cross said:


> I need you help Brothers, I'm working on my research about bible verses for 1st 2nd and 3rd degree on Torah and Quran. (Islamic influence within masonry)



Since the events of our degrees take place in the Old Testament times you need to reference parts of the Tenach other than the Torah.

I have read the Koran but I have not studied it with that part of history in mind.  Stories of the Old Testament do get mentioned in the Koran but I don't remember if stories from 1st and 2nd Kings are among them.


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## Toolshed (Jul 6, 2015)

...Enoch is highly suggested


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## 83cross (Jul 7, 2015)

Thanks Brothers, I read this article and now I got more confusion and questions on Slam and Freemasonry, at first my only purpose is to research on the bible verses but now I realize I need to expand my research. it mentioned here Prophet Elijah Muhammad connection to Freemason, and how it affects the Shia and Sunni Muslim. I hope you can time time to read this and share your thoughts, because as a young mason I am really eager to learn more. 

http://dailygrail.com/blogs/fahim-knight/2007/12/Freemasonry-and-Islam-What-do-they-share


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## Rifleman1776 (Jul 12, 2015)

No. And I don't intend to. It is very confusing and I get hung up on apparent contradictions. e.g. Genesis begins: vs 27 ".....male and female He created them."  But, wait, there is more. Later Adam is lonely and God does the rib thing (Gen. 2, vs. 22 & 23) and makes another female, Eve, for him. Huh? What happened to the first female from Gen. 1, verse 27?  For me, that is an example of why reading the whole Bible is almost impossible for me. I do go to it often for reference however.


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## dfreybur (Jul 13, 2015)

83cross said:


> Thanks Brothers, I read this article and now I got more confusion and questions on Slam and Freemasonry, at first my only purpose is to research on the bible verses but now I realize I need to expand my research. it mentioned here Prophet Elijah Muhammad connection to Freemason, and how it affects the Shia and Sunni Muslim. I hope you can time time to read this and share your thoughts, because as a young mason I am really eager to learn more.
> 
> http://dailygrail.com/blogs/fahim-knight/2007/12/Freemasonry-and-Islam-What-do-they-share



I found the article strangely organized.  It discusses ancient history from before the unification of the two kingdoms then abruptly jumps to the modern era.  If the goal is to find Egyptian roots that's a different project than finding Muslim roots and that distinction is glossed over in the article.

If you wish to look to the history of the Southern Kingdom as a root for many modern cultures, the Bible is not the place to look.  Moses and the events surrounding him happened after the unification of the Northern Kingdom and Southern Kingdom.  You need to look farther back into Egyptian history than appears in the Old Testament.  Expect Egyptian history to disagree with the Old Testament on assorted details.  Among them is about the time of Moses there was a dynasty of desert men suggesting the Jews were in charge and ejected in a revolt.

If you wish to look into the history of Muslim influence coming into Masonry the place to start is the emergence of records of Masonry in England about the same time as the records of the crusades and the Knights Templar.  Following those two threads until they intersect.


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## LAMason (Jul 13, 2015)

83cross said:


> Thanks Brothers, I read this article and now I got more confusion and questions on Slam and Freemasonry, at first my only purpose is to research on the bible verses but now I realize I need to expand my research. it mentioned here Prophet Elijah Muhammad connection to Freemason, and how it affects the Shia and Sunni Muslim. I hope you can time time to read this and share your thoughts, because as a young mason I am really eager to learn more.
> 
> http://dailygrail.com/blogs/fahim-knight/2007/12/Freemasonry-and-Islam-What-do-they-share



*Did ancient Greek religion and culture derive from Egypt?*

The idea that Greek religion and philosophy has Egyptian origins derives, at least in part, from the writings of ancient Greek historians. In the fifth century BC Herodotus was told by Egyptian priests that the Greeks owed many aspects of their culture to the older and vastly impressive civilization of the Egyptians. Egyptian priests told Diodorus some of the same stories four centuries later. The church fathers in the second and third centuries AD also were eager to emphasize the dependency of Greece on the earlier cultures of the Egyptians and the Hebrews. They were eager to establish direct links between their civilization and that of Egypt because Egypt was a vastly older culture, with elaborate religious customs and impressive monuments. But despite their enthusiasm for Egypt and its material culture (an enthusiasm that was later revived in eighteenth and nineteenth-century Europe), they failed to understand Egyptian religion and the purpose of many Egyptian customs.

Classical scholars tend to be skeptical about the claims of the Greek historians because much of what these writers say does not conform to the facts as they are now known from the modern scholarship on ancient Egypt. For centuries Europeans had believed that the ancient historians knew that certain Greek religious customs and philosophical interests derived from Egypt. But two major discoveries changed that view. The first concerned a group of ancient philosophical treatises attributed to Hermes Trismegistus; these had throughout the Middle Ages and into the Renaissance been thought of as Egyptian and early. But in 1614 the French scholar Isaac Casaubon demonstrated that the treatises were actually late and basically Greek. The second discovery was the decipherment of hieroglyphics, the official system of Egyptian writing, completed by 1836. Before decipherment, scholars had been compelled to rely on Greek sources for their understanding of Egyptian history and civilization. Once they were able to read real Egyptian texts, and could disregard the fanciful interpretations of hieroglyphics that had been circulating since late antiquity, it became clear to them that the relation of Egyptian to Greek culture was less close than they had imagined. Egyptian belonged to the Afroasiatic language family, while Greek was an Indo-European language, akin to Sanskrit and European languages like Latin.

On the basis of these new discoveries, European scholars realized that they could no longer take at face value what Herodotus, Diodorus, and the Church fathers had to say about Greece's debt to Egypt. Once it was possible to read Egyptian religious documents, and to see how the Egyptians themselves described their gods and told their myths, scholars could see that the ancient Greeks' accounts of Egyptian religion were superficial, and even misleading. Apparently Greek writers, despite their great admiration for Egypt, looked at Egyptian civilization through cultural blinkers that kept them from understanding any practices or customs that were significantly different from their own. The result was a portrait of Egypt that was both astigmatic and deeply Hellenized. Greek writers operated under other handicaps as well. They did not have access to records; there was no defined system of chronology. They could not read Egyptian inscriptions or question a variety of witnesses because they did not know the language. Hence they were compelled to exaggerate the importance of such resemblances as they could see or find.

*Did the theory of the transmigration of souls come from Egypt?*

Because he tended to rely on such analogies as he could find, Herodotus inevitably made some false conjectures. Herodotus thought that Pythagoras learned about the transmigration of souls from Egypt, when in fact the Egyptians _did not believe_ in the transmigration of souls, as their careful and elaborate burial procedures clearly indicate. Herodotus tells us that he wrote down what the Egyptians told him; but when they spoke, what did he hear? Since he did not know Egyptian, his informants could have been Greeks living in the Greek colony of Naucratis in the Nile Delta, or Egyptians who knew some Greek. How well-informed were his informants? On the question of origins, at least, it seems that neither group had any more than a superficial understanding of the other's culture. Perhaps someone explained to him about the Egyptian "modes of existence," in which a human being could manifest itself both materially, or immaterially, as _ka_ or _ba_or a name, and that death was not an end, but a threshold leading to a new form of life. Belief in these varied modes of existence required that bodies be preserved after death, hence the Egyptian practice of mummification. Greeks, on the other hand, believed that the soul was separated from the body at death, and disposed of bodies either by burial or cremation. In any case, there is no reason to assume that Pythagoras or other Greeks who believed in transmigration, like the Orphics and/or the philosopher-poet Empedocles, got their ideas from anyone else: notions of transmigration have developed independently in other parts of the world.

*Did Plato Study in Egypt?*

Plato never says in any of his writings that he went to Egypt, and there is no reference to such a visit in the semi-biographical Seventh Epistle. But in his dialogues he refers to some Egyptian myths and customs. Plato, of course, was not a historian, and the rather superficial knowledge of Egypt displayed in his dialogues, along with vague chronology, is more characteristic of historical fiction than of history. In fact, anecdotes about his visit to Egypt only turn up in writers of the later Hellenistic period. What better way to explain his several references to Egypt than to assume that the author had some first-hand knowledge of the customs he describes? For authors dating from the fourth century and earlier, ancient biographers were compelled to use as their principal source material the author's own works. Later biographers add details to the story of Plato's Egyptian travels in order to provide aetiologies for the "Egyptian" reference in his writings. The most ironic anecdote of all is preserved by Clement of Alexandria: Plato studied in Egypt with Hermes the "Thrice Great" (Trismegistus). This is tantamount to saying that Plato studied with himself _after his death_. The works of Hermes could not have been written without the conceptual vocabulary developed by Plato and Aristotle, and is deeply influenced not just by Plato, but by the writings of Neoplatonist philosophers in the early centuries AD. In any case, whoever these teachers were, Plato seems never to have learned from them anything that is characteristically Egyptian, at least so far as we know about Egyptian theology from Egyptian sources. Instead, Plato's notion of the Egyptians remains similar to that of other Athenians; he did not so much change the Athenian notion of Egyptian culture as enrich and idealize it, so that it could provide a dramatic and instructive contrast with Athenian customs in his dialogues.

*Was there ever such a thing as an "Egyptian Mystery System?"*

Even after nineteenth-century scholars had shown that the reports of Greek visitors to Egypt misunderstood and misrepresented what they saw, the myth that Greek philosophy derived from Egypt is still in circulation. The notion of an Egyptian legacy was preserved in the literature and ritual of Freemasonry. It was from that source that Afrocentrists learned about it, and then sought to find confirmation for the primacy of Egypt over Greece in the fantasies of ancient writers. In order to show that Greek philosophy is in reality stolen Egyptian philosophy, Afrocentrist writers assume that there was in existence from earliest times an "Egyptian Mystery System," which was copied by the Greeks. The existence of this "Mystery System" is integral to the notion that Greek philosophy was stolen, because it provides a reason for assuming that Greek philosophers had a particular reason for studying in Egypt, and for claiming that what they later wrote about in Greek was originally Egyptian philosophy. But in reality, the notion of an Egyptian Mystery System is a relatively modern fiction, based on ancient sources that are distinctively _Greek_, or Greco-Roman, and from the early centuries AD.

In their original form, ancient mysteries had nothing to do with schools or particular courses of study; rather, the ritual was intended to put the initiate into contact with the divinity, and if special preparation or rituals were involved, it was to familiarize the initiate with the practices and liturgy of that particular cult. The origin of the connection of Mysteries to education in fact dates only to the eighteenth century. It derives from a particular work of European fiction, published in 1731. This was the three-volume work _Sethos, a History or Biography, based on Unpublished Memoirs of Ancient Egypt_, by the Abbé Jean Terrasson (1670-1750), a French priest, who was Professor of Greek at the Collège de France. Although now completely forgotten, the novel was widely read in the eighteenth century..Of course Terrasson did not have access to any Egyptian information about Egypt, since hieroglyphics were not to be deciphered until more than a century later.

*Why claim that Greek philosophy was stolen from Egypt?*

Perhaps the most influential Afrocentrist text is _Stolen Legacy_, a work that has been in wide circulation since its publication in 1954. Its author, George G. M. James, writes that "the term Greek philosophy, to begin with is a misnomer, for there is no such philosophy in existence." He argues that the Greeks "did not possess the native ability essential to the development of philosophy." Rather, he states that "the Greeks were not the authors of Greek philosophy, but the Black people of North Africa, The Egyptians." It is not hard to understand why James wishes to give credit for the Greek achievement to the Egyptians, even if there is little or no historical foundation for his claims. Like the other nationalistic myths, the story of a "Stolen Legacy" both offers an explanation for past suffering, and provides a source of ethnic pride.

But although the myth may encourage and perhaps even "empower" African-Americans, its use has a destructive side, which cannot and should not be overlooked. First of all, it offers them a "story" instead of history. It also suggests that African-Americans need to learn only what they choose to believe about the past. But in so doing, the Afrocentric myth seeks to shelter them from learning what all other ethnic groups must learn, and indeed, face up to, namely the full scope of their history.

What people on earth have had a completely glorious history? While we point to the great achievements of the Greeks, anyone who has studied ancient Greek civilization knows that they also made terrible and foolish mistakes. Isn't treating African-Americans differently from the rest of humankind just another form of segregation and condescension? Implied discrimination is the most destructive aspect of Afrocentrism, but there are other serious problems as well. Teaching the myth of the Stolen Legacy as if it were history robs the ancient Greeks and their modern descendants of a heritage that rightly belongs to them. Why discriminate against them when discrimination is the issue? In addition, the myth deprives the ancient Egyptians of their proper history and robs them of their actual legacy. The Egypt of the myth of the Stolen Legacy is a wholly European Egypt, as imagined by Greek and Roman writers, and further elaborated in eighteenth-century France. Ancient Egyptian civilization deserves to be remembered (and respected) for what it was, and not for what Europeans, ancient and modern, have imagined it to be.

*What is the evidence for a "Stolen Legacy?"*

James's idea of ancient Egypt is fundamentally the imaginary "Mystical Egypt" of Freemasonry. He speaks of grades of initiation. In these Mysteries, as the Freemasons imagined them, Neophyte initiates must learn self-control and self-knowledge. He believes that Moses was an initiate into the Egyptian mysteries, and that Socrates reached the grade of Master Mason. In his description of the Greek philosophy, he emphasizes the Four Elements that play such a key role in Terrasson's Memphis and Masonic initiation ceremonies. He speaks of the Masonic symbol of the Open Eye, which based on an Egyptian hieroglyph but in Masonry has come specifically to represent the Master Mind. As in the University/Mystery system invented by Terrasson, Egyptian temples are used as libraries and observatories.

What then are the Greeks supposed to have stolen from the Egyptians? Are there any texts in existence that be found to verify the claim that Greek philosophy was stolen from Egypt? How was the "transfer" of Egyptian materials to Greece accomplished? If we examine what James says about the way in which the "transfer" was supposed to have been carried out, we will find that that few or no historical data can be summoned to support it. In fact, in order to construct his argument, James overlooked or ignored much existing evidence.

*Did Aristotle raid the Library at Alexandria?*

No ancient source says that Alexander and Aristotle raided the Library at Alexandria. That they do not do so is not surprising, because it is unlikely that Aristotle ever went there. Aristotle was Alexander's tutor when Alexander was young, but he did not accompany him on his military campaign. Even if he had gone there, it is hard to see how he could have stolen books from the library in Alexandria. Although Alexandria was founded in 331 BC, it did not begin to function as a city until after 323. Aristotle died in 322. The library was assembled around 297 under the direction of Demetrius of Phaleron, a pupil of Aristotle's. Most of the books it contained were in Greek.

*Did Aristotle plagiarize Egyptian sources?*

If Aristotle had stolen his ideas from the Egyptians, as James asserts, James should be able to provide parallel Egyptian and Greek texts showing frequent verbal correspondences. As it is, he can only come up with a vague similarity between two titles. One is Aristotle's treatise _On the Soul_, and the other the modern English name of a collection of Egyptian texts,_The Book of the Dead_. These funerary texts, which the Egyptians themselves called the _Book of Coming Forth by Day_, are designed to protect the soul during its dangerous journey through Duat, the Egyptian underworld, on its way to life of bliss in the Field of Reeds. Both Aristotle and the Egyptians believed in the notion of a "soul." But there the similarity ends. Even a cursory glance at a translation of the _Book of the Dead_ reveals that it is not a philosophical treatise, but rather a series of ritual prescriptions to ensure the soul's passage to the next world. It is completely different from Aristotle's abstract consideration of the nature of the soul. James fails to mention that the two texts cannot be profitably compared, because their aims and methods are so different. Instead, he accounts for the discrepancy by claiming that Aristotle's theory is only a "very small portion" of the Egyptian "philosophy" of the soul, as described in the Egyptian _Book of the Dead_. On that basis, one could claim that any later writer plagiarized from any earlier writer who touched on the same subject. But why not assume instead that the later writer was influenced by the earlier writer, or even came up with the some of the same ideas independently, especially if those ideas are widespread, like the notion that human beings have souls?

James also alleges that Aristotle's theory of matter was taken from the so-called Memphite Theology. The Memphite Theology is a religious document inscribed on a stone tablet by Egyptian priests in the eighth century BC, but said to have been copied from an ancient papyrus. The archaic language of the text suggests that the original dates from sometime in the second millennium BC. According to James, Aristotle took from the Memphite theology his doctrine that matter, motion, and time are eternal, along with the principle of opposites, and the concept of the unmoved mover. James does not say how Aristotle would have known about this inscription, which was at the time located in Memphis and not in the Library of Alexandria, or explain how he would have been able to read it. But even if Aristotle had had some way of finding out about it, he would have had no use for it in his philosophical writings. The Memphis text, like the Egyptian_Book of the Dead_, is a work of a totally different character from any of Aristotle's treatises.

The Memphite text describes the creation of the world as then known (that is, Upper and Lower Egypt). It relates how Ptah's mind (or "heart") and thought (or "tongue") created the universe and all living creatures in it: "for every word of the god came about through what the heart devised and the tongue commanded." From one of his manifestations, the primordial waters of chaos, the sun-god Atum was born. When Ptah has finished creating the universe, he rests from his labors: "Ptah was satisfied after he had made all things and all divine words."

In form and in substance this account has virtually nothing in common with Aristotle's abstract theology. In fact, in_Metaphysics_ Book 11, Aristotle discards the traditional notion of a universe that is created by a divinity or divinities, in favor of a metaphysical argument. If there is eternal motion, there is eternal substance, and behind that, an immaterial and eternal source of activity, whose existence can be deduced from the eternal circular motion of the heavens. The source of this activity is what is called in English translation the "unmoved mover."All that this theory has in common with the Memphite theology is a concern with creation of the universe. On the same insubstantial basis, it would be possible to argue that Aristotle _stole_ his philosophy from the story of creation in the first book of Genesis.

 Not out of Africa by Mary Lefkowitz


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## coomby (Jul 17, 2015)

I have it sitting in my bedside drawer. I've considered reading it, but never have gotten to it. I did start reading it when I was in my early teens. I don't recall how much I read, but it ended up being put aside. Maybe I'll try again one day soon.


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## Archangel Raised (Jul 18, 2015)

JTM said:


> yea, put it on the back of my toilet and read a few pages a day for a long while.  after a while, was done with the old testament.  was surprised how it seemed how fast the thing went.



THAT is buhrillant!  Heading to the can, now!


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## promason (Jul 31, 2015)

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*3 - Solomon's Seal and the Treasure of the World*

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*Solomon’s Seal and the Treasure of the World*

As with Tolkien’s One Ring, the Ring of Solomon went underground, or under a mountain if you like, disappearing from sight without textual mention for centuries.  The legend survived and eventually resurfaced in writing; we can note and anchor it there.  Not so the ring itself; the truth is, the fate of the ring can only be guessed.

Before we do that, though, let’s address the legend and the shape it took.  There’s the Western tradition and an Eastern one, both of which naturally center on esoteric mysticism and occult practice.

In the Abrahamic tradition of the West, the ring surfaces in one of the books of the historian Josephus, composed in the first century CE.  His is the mindset of an aristocratic Hebrew scholar descended from royal lineage on his mother’s side and from the High Priests of the temple of Jerusalem on his father’s.  A dynamic Jewish commander and brash opportunist, he survived the destruction of his nation by Rome successfully enough to become a Roman citizen, a diplomat, chronicler, and historian - writing many books about his people and its history.  His work constitutes an accurate view of events and concerns at the time (from a certain perspective) as well as a voicing of some of the traditions passed down within Jewish culture.  He mentions Solomon and magic rings in the following passage:

“…God also enabled him [Solomon] to learn that skill which expels demons, which is a science useful and sanative to men. He composed such incantations also by which distempers are alleviated. And he left behind him the manner of using exorcisms, by which they drive away demons, so that they never return; and this method of cure is of great force unto this day; for I have seen a certain man of my own country, whose name was _Eleazar_, releasing people that were demoniacal in the presence of Vespasian, and his sons, and his captains, and the whole multitude of his soldiers. The manner of the cure was this: He put a ring that had a root of one of those sorts mentioned by Solomon to the nostrils of the demoniac, after which he drew out the demon through his nostrils; and when the man fell down immediately, he abjured him to return into him no more, making still no mention of Solomon, and reciting the incantations which he composed. And when Eleazar would persuade and demonstrate to the spectators that he had such a power, he set a little way off a cup or basin full of water, and commanded the demon, as he went out of the man, to overturn it, and thereby to let the spectators know that he had left the man: and when this was done, the skill and wisdom of Solomon was shewed very manifestly...”  (History of the Jews; 8:2:5)






This remarkable passage doesn’t mention Solomon’s ring, but rather a contemporary magic ring in context with Solomon’s fabled occult skills with demons, incantations which apparently had been transmitted to others down through the ages.  It sets the stage for what will come.

Not long afterward, about the 3rd-5th century CE, the Babylonian Talmud is written by Jewish scholars in Mesopotamia, and it contains extensive references to Solomon, Asmodeus, and a ring with the divine name engraved (Tractate Gittin, Mishna).

A long account of Ashmedai appears in the Talmud, relating how King Solomon succeeded in capturing him and forcing him into service for the building of the Temple.  Later Aggadic legend depicts him as a merry trickster rather than an evil demon, while according to some sources his influence is actually beneficent and is directed to guarding the moral order of the universe.

The Demon Asmodeus and Solomon Trade Places

For many years after the Temple was completed, Solomon kept the demon Ashmedai prisoner in his dungeon. One day Solomon said to him, “How can you call yourself King of Demons if I, a mere man of flesh and blood, can hold you captive?"

"Release me from my chains and give me your magic ring," answered Ashmedai. "Then we shall see who is king."

Confident of his own power, Solomon granted Ashmedai's wish. Instantly the demon seized the king's crown, and with a single flick of his powerful wing, hurled Solomon four hundred miles from Jerusalem.

Ashmedai then flung Solomon's magic ring into the sea, where it was swallowed by a fish. For Ashmedai thought, "If anyone should gain possession of the ring, he will know what I have done."

Then the Demon King disguised himself as Solomon and sat down upon his golden throne.  –ATS.com






According to the Talmud, Solomon’s ring was engraved with the shem ha-meforesh—the Ineffable Name of GOD. And Islamic authors tell us that it contained “the Most Great Name of GOD,” along with four jewels that had been given to Solomon by angels.  The jewels are said to be inscribed with phrases. The first jewel gave Solomon dominion over the winds, and was inscribed “To GOD [Allah] belong power and greatness.” The second gave him dominion over birds and beasts, and was inscribed “Let all living things praise GOD.” The third gave him dominion over earth and water, and was inscribed “Heaven and earth are the servants of GOD.” The fourth gave him dominion over the jinn, and was inscribed “There is no GOD but GOD, and Muhammad is His messenger.”  _[There exist several curious explanations for the anachronism.  Another variant of the story has the jewels bestowing power over the four elements.]_

The ring served King Solomon as a signet ring, for sealing letters and decrees. But it was also the source of his supernatural powers. With it he was able to control the winds, and to fly about on a wind-borne carpet. It allowed him to communicate with animals (and even with flowers). But its most notable use involved the jinn. By means of his ring, Solomon could summon these otherworldly spirits and make them do his bidding. He could also exorcise them from possessed persons.  –ProfessorSolomon.com






The legend of the Seal of Solomon was developed primarily by medieval Arabic writers, who related that the ring was engraved with the name of God and was given to the king directly from heaven. The ring was made from brass and iron, and the two parts were used to seal written commands to good and evil spirits, respectively.  In one tale, a demon, either Asmodeus, or _Sakhr_, obtained possession of the ring and ruled in Solomon's stead for forty days.  In a variant of the tale of the ring of Polycrates from Herodotus, the demon eventually threw the ring into the sea, where it was swallowed by a fish, caught by a fisherman, and served to Solomon.  –Wikipedia






So it was that the Medieval Arabic authors, delving into the implications of Josephus and the Talmud, began to refer to it regularly as the signet ring of Solomon, or the Seal of Solomon, a practice followed later by Jewish Kabbalists and Western occultists and Alchemists, complete with mythology, esoteric symbols and sigils, and prescriptive and ritual incantations with an emphasis on the summoning of spirits and demons.  Because of Josephus’s reference to a heritage of magical teachings from Solomon, the validity of an ancient magical/ritual corpus had a foundation that could be pointed to, and lends justification for such claims made to this day.  Before long the signet itself would gain emphasis as the source of the ring’s power (in conjunction with incantation), not from the jewels or a holy stone with the name of God written on it.  The Seal was depicted in either a pentagram or hexagram shape; the latter also known as Shield of David or Star of David in Jewish tradition.  However, the evolution of the tale of the ring into the Great Study of the Seal sprang from medieval Islam in Spain, North Africa, and the Middle East.






Through the study and practice of occult magic the one Seal developed into many seals, or keys - symbols for personal and ritual magic to guide the focus of the magician, as well as talismans for protective shielding against hostile energies, often inscribed on amulets to be worn.  Whole systems were developed as an aid to the practice and grimoires were compiled in esoteric fashion, largely for purposes of spirit and demonic contact in pursuit of some magical goal of will.











We know that the hexagram is a very ancient symbol with multi-cultural lineage, the two interlaced triangles representing (a) a twining of dual powers or functions of the phenomenal world or (b) aligned point to point as a conjunction, vortex or wormhole symbol (actually this is a pentagram).








To the hexagram and pentagram were added various other sigils and geometric conflations, often compounding the sacred and magical elements with astrological themes.  The evolution of adding sigils and runes of pagan mysticism, numbers, Hebrew letters, and alchemical symbols into format with the hexagram, or with the similarly ancient pentagram, and morphing the geometry into a coherent shape, is said to have developed the subtle tuning of the talisman, to assist the working of energies according to the will and skill of the occult practitioner.  Use of the Seals of Solomon for occult practice and study has grown over time, and in modern practice is still associated with the summoning of spirits and demons.













The Eastern tradition concerns the making of the ring, and so we'll turn back to Solomon's time, close on a thousand years BCE.

It begins with a very ancient meteorite, fallen somewhere in the Tibetan/Mongolian mountainous plateau, that was formed in the shape of a shield tetrahedron and was composed of a greenish tektite sometimes called Moldavite (technically, if it doesn’t come from Moldavia, or modern Slovakia, then it’s not Moldavite.)  These tektites are glassy and magnetic, formed as the meteor’s surface is vaporized in the atmospheric fireball and re-formed in glassy ripples, found scattered near the impact site or as a skin striated upon the remnants of the meteorite itself, which would have been metallic.  They exist in various colors, but are quite rare. 






Their magnetic properties are curious and are considered to be psychic accelerators, varying from stone to stone, from meteor to meteor.  The stone which concerns us is undoubtedly the most famous tektitic meteor of all.

It’s called the Chintamani stone, or the wish-fulfilling jewel, or the Treasure of the World, and it figures in the traditions of both the Buddhist and Hindu canon.  In Buddhism the Chintamani is sometimes said to be one of four relics that came in a chest that fell from the sky.  Within Hinduism it is connected with the gods, Vishnu and Ganesha. In Hindu tradition it is often depicted as a fabulous jewel in the possession of the Naga king or as on the forehead of the Makara.  --Wikipedia

A maṇi-jewel; magical jewel, which manifests whatever one wishes for (Skt. maṇi, cintā-maṇi, cintāmaṇi-ratna). According to one's desires, treasures, clothing and food can be manifested, while sickness and suffering can be removed, water can be purified, etc. It is a metaphor for the teachings and virtues of the Buddha. … Said to be obtained from the dragon-king of the sea, or the head of the great fish, Makara, or the relics of a Buddha.  –Digital Dictionary of Buddhism

Skt: Cinta-mani. This is represented in art as a bluish colored stone as large as a crystal ball. Mani literally means "stone", in contrast to the word "jewel" (ratna). The term Cinta means "thought". The Cintamani is literally the "thought-stone" or the stone which magnifies one's thoughts, i.e., fulfils one's wishes.  –China Buddhism Encyclopedia

According to many occult writings, the Stone is kept in the hidden (or sometimes underground) city of Shambhala where live the Ascended Masters, or the Eight Immortals (Taoist), beings of high resonance and consciousness; fragments of it are lent out to humanity to assist them in the time of great change or opportunity.  Ancient Tibetan texts reveal a tradition of shards having been sent to King Solomon, Genghis Khan, and Akbar the Great, among others.  Nicholas Roerich, the Russian artist and mystic, Rosicrucian Martinist and Kalachakra initiate, received just such a shard in 1923, laid in an antique casket, to present to the League of Nations which was forming at the time; upon the failure of the League, Roerich returned ‘the Stone’ to the East.









Chintamani, the wish-fulfilling jewel mentioned in Tibetan religious tradition and Hindu legend, was one of the names Nicholas and Helena Roerich used for a possession which had two manifestations: firstly as a ‘spiritual treasure’, by which was meant the psychic faculty or ‘instrument’ each of them utilized; and secondly as the symbolic counterpart of the ‘treasure’ in material reality, which was a talisman of mineral nature. This is said to have been a ‘chip’ or piece from the main mass of a large meteoritic stone located at a place known by a legendary name – Shambhala. […]






The ‘chips’ or pieces of the Chintamani stone were believed to have a special property, which was to enhance psychic communication, and in particular to open channels to receive instruction and guidance from the ‘Ascended Masters’ of Shambhala. Pieces of the Chintamani stone were said to maintain a ‘magnetic connection’ with a main stone located at Shambhala – which, for the Roerichs, was likely to have had an identifiable location. The idea is found most clearly in Nicholas Roerich’s book Himalayas – Abode of Light, and the passage in which it occurs is perhaps the most informative statement about the Stone in any of the Roerichs’ writings: ‘Many… wonderful things have been told by educated Buriats and Mongols… of the miraculous stone coming from a far star, which is appearing in different places before great events… The chief body of this stone is lying in Shambhala, and a small piece of it is given out and wanders all over the earth, keeping magnetic connection with the main stone’.  –Chintamani of the Roerichs, Chap. 1

Roerich described the stone as greenish Moldavite with an undeniable psycho-magnetic energy; the Russian paranormal scientist Barchenko, who analyzed it in Moscow before sending it on to Roerich in Paris on behalf of the Panchen Lama of Tibet, wrote that the extra-terrestrial stone is stronger than penetrating Radium and its dynamic rays can instantly increase a person’s own vibratory frequency.



Many myths are attached to the stone.  It is also considered by some to symbolize an aspect of awakening or attainment, but may not be a physical object - contradicting the old Tibetan tradition of sending out pieces of an actual stone to exceptional persons.

For us, the meteoritic reality of the stone is first alluded to by Madame Blavatsky after she visited the Tashilumpo Monastery in Tibet and its Panchen Lama, late in the nineteenth century.  Nicholas Roerich’s extensive contacts with Russian, Mongolian, Indian, and Tibetan personages led to the shard being sent to him.  Helena Roerich, Nicholas’s wife, an associate and translator of Blavatsky, was a spiritual medium who encouraged her husband and son to travel to Tibet and Mongolia in 1925 after the failure of the League of Nations, to return the stone and find Shambhala.  Helena Roerich handled the stone while her husband had it in his keeping, used it for séances, and wrote about it in her diaries.


There is not enough room in this essay to fully expound on this topic, so we’ll here leave the East and the modern age and return to King Solomon, who reportedly received a shard of the Chintamani as a gift from the ‘King of the World’ in Shambhala, a piece of which he then set into his ring.  This then would be the ring that conjured ‘demons’, a greenish stone, a conveyor of great wisdom – a quality for which Solomon was renowned, in some legends found inside a great fish, a psycho-magnetic tektite from an iron meteorite that enabled a resonant connection with its parent specimen and with the Ascended Masters in Shambhala.

It is possible to speculate that if this were in fact the scenario, the high priest and elders of Jerusalem might have distrusted the ringstone’s pedigree and powers, and hid it away deep under the Temple Mount after Solomon had died, so that it may be lost.

Sources:

Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seal_of_Solomon, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cintamani, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus 

Professor Solomon: http://www.professorsolomon.com/ringofsolomon.html

Jewish Encyclopedia.com: http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/13843-solomon-seal-of

Silverhoofs.com: http://www.silverhoofs.com/seals_so.htm

Kaballah Online/Practical Kabbala: http://www.kabbala.co.il/site.php?page=sgulot11.html 

China Buddhism Encyclopedia: http://www.chinabuddhismencyclopedia.com/en/index.php?title=Cintamani..Wish_Fulfilling_Gem

James Axler.com: http://www.jamesaxler.com/outlanders...mani_stone.htm

Roerich Museum NY: http://www.roerich.org/

Roerich and Chintamani: http://roerichandchintamani.wordpre...inary-tales-of-an-extra-terrestrial-talisman/

Aruarian: http://www.aruarian.com/cintamani-stone/

Biblioteca Pleyades: http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sociopolitica/sociopol_shambahla09a.htm

http://www.esotericonline.net/profiles/blogs/3-solomon-s-seal-and-the-treasure-of-the-world

good read everyone!!!!!late but FANTASTIC JULY 4TH!!!!!!!!!!blessings!!!!!!!!!always HUMBLED AND ILLUMINATED when come back here!!!!!!!!!always!!!!!!!!!!!always!!!!!!!!!!weekend!!!!!!!!!http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sociopolitica/sociopol_shambahla09a.htm


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## promason (Jul 31, 2015)

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Mystic
*3 - Solomon's Seal and the Treasure of the World*

Raymondo PasseroView Blog












*Solomon’s Seal and the Treasure of the World*

As with Tolkien’s One Ring, the Ring of Solomon went underground, or under a mountain if you like, disappearing from sight without textual mention for centuries.  The legend survived and eventually resurfaced in writing; we can note and anchor it there.  Not so the ring itself; the truth is, the fate of the ring can only be guessed.

Before we do that, though, let’s address the legend and the shape it took.  There’s the Western tradition and an Eastern one, both of which naturally center on esoteric mysticism and occult practice.

In the Abrahamic tradition of the West, the ring surfaces in one of the books of the historian Josephus, composed in the first century CE.  His is the mindset of an aristocratic Hebrew scholar descended from royal lineage on his mother’s side and from the High Priests of the temple of Jerusalem on his father’s.  A dynamic Jewish commander and brash opportunist, he survived the destruction of his nation by Rome successfully enough to become a Roman citizen, a diplomat, chronicler, and historian - writing many books about his people and its history.  His work constitutes an accurate view of events and concerns at the time (from a certain perspective) as well as a voicing of some of the traditions passed down within Jewish culture.  He mentions Solomon and magic rings in the following passage:

“…God also enabled him [Solomon] to learn that skill which expels demons, which is a science useful and sanative to men. He composed such incantations also by which distempers are alleviated. And he left behind him the manner of using exorcisms, by which they drive away demons, so that they never return; and this method of cure is of great force unto this day; for I have seen a certain man of my own country, whose name was _Eleazar_, releasing people that were demoniacal in the presence of Vespasian, and his sons, and his captains, and the whole multitude of his soldiers. The manner of the cure was this: He put a ring that had a root of one of those sorts mentioned by Solomon to the nostrils of the demoniac, after which he drew out the demon through his nostrils; and when the man fell down immediately, he abjured him to return into him no more, making still no mention of Solomon, and reciting the incantations which he composed. And when Eleazar would persuade and demonstrate to the spectators that he had such a power, he set a little way off a cup or basin full of water, and commanded the demon, as he went out of the man, to overturn it, and thereby to let the spectators know that he had left the man: and when this was done, the skill and wisdom of Solomon was shewed very manifestly...”  (History of the Jews; 8:2:5)






This remarkable passage doesn’t mention Solomon’s ring, but rather a contemporary magic ring in context with Solomon’s fabled occult skills with demons, incantations which apparently had been transmitted to others down through the ages.  It sets the stage for what will come.

Not long afterward, about the 3rd-5th century CE, the Babylonian Talmud is written by Jewish scholars in Mesopotamia, and it contains extensive references to Solomon, Asmodeus, and a ring with the divine name engraved (Tractate Gittin, Mishna).

A long account of Ashmedai appears in the Talmud, relating how King Solomon succeeded in capturing him and forcing him into service for the building of the Temple.  Later Aggadic legend depicts him as a merry trickster rather than an evil demon, while according to some sources his influence is actually beneficent and is directed to guarding the moral order of the universe.

The Demon Asmodeus and Solomon Trade Places

For many years after the Temple was completed, Solomon kept the demon Ashmedai prisoner in his dungeon. One day Solomon said to him, “How can you call yourself King of Demons if I, a mere man of flesh and blood, can hold you captive?"

"Release me from my chains and give me your magic ring," answered Ashmedai. "Then we shall see who is king."

Confident of his own power, Solomon granted Ashmedai's wish. Instantly the demon seized the king's crown, and with a single flick of his powerful wing, hurled Solomon four hundred miles from Jerusalem.

Ashmedai then flung Solomon's magic ring into the sea, where it was swallowed by a fish. For Ashmedai thought, "If anyone should gain possession of the ring, he will know what I have done."

Then the Demon King disguised himself as Solomon and sat down upon his golden throne.  –ATS.com






According to the Talmud, Solomon’s ring was engraved with the shem ha-meforesh—the Ineffable Name of GOD. And Islamic authors tell us that it contained “the Most Great Name of GOD,” along with four jewels that had been given to Solomon by angels.  The jewels are said to be inscribed with phrases. The first jewel gave Solomon dominion over the winds, and was inscribed “To GOD [Allah] belong power and greatness.” The second gave him dominion over birds and beasts, and was inscribed “Let all living things praise GOD.” The third gave him dominion over earth and water, and was inscribed “Heaven and earth are the servants of GOD.” The fourth gave him dominion over the jinn, and was inscribed “There is no GOD but GOD, and Muhammad is His messenger.”  _[There exist several curious explanations for the anachronism.  Another variant of the story has the jewels bestowing power over the four elements.]_

The ring served King Solomon as a signet ring, for sealing letters and decrees. But it was also the source of his supernatural powers. With it he was able to control the winds, and to fly about on a wind-borne carpet. It allowed him to communicate with animals (and even with flowers). But its most notable use involved the jinn. By means of his ring, Solomon could summon these otherworldly spirits and make them do his bidding. He could also exorcise them from possessed persons.  –ProfessorSolomon.com






The legend of the Seal of Solomon was developed primarily by medieval Arabic writers, who related that the ring was engraved with the name of God and was given to the king directly from heaven. The ring was made from brass and iron, and the two parts were used to seal written commands to good and evil spirits, respectively.  In one tale, a demon, either Asmodeus, or _Sakhr_, obtained possession of the ring and ruled in Solomon's stead for forty days.  In a variant of the tale of the ring of Polycrates from Herodotus, the demon eventually threw the ring into the sea, where it was swallowed by a fish, caught by a fisherman, and served to Solomon.  –Wikipedia






So it was that the Medieval Arabic authors, delving into the implications of Josephus and the Talmud, began to refer to it regularly as the signet ring of Solomon, or the Seal of Solomon, a practice followed later by Jewish Kabbalists and Western occultists and Alchemists, complete with mythology, esoteric symbols and sigils, and prescriptive and ritual incantations with an emphasis on the summoning of spirits and demons.  Because of Josephus’s reference to a heritage of magical teachings from Solomon, the validity of an ancient magical/ritual corpus had a foundation that could be pointed to, and lends justification for such claims made to this day.  Before long the signet itself would gain emphasis as the source of the ring’s power (in conjunction with incantation), not from the jewels or a holy stone with the name of God written on it.  The Seal was depicted in either a pentagram or hexagram shape; the latter also known as Shield of David or Star of David in Jewish tradition.  However, the evolution of the tale of the ring into the Great Study of the Seal sprang from medieval Islam in Spain, North Africa, and the Middle East.






Through the study and practice of occult magic the one Seal developed into many seals, or keys - symbols for personal and ritual magic to guide the focus of the magician, as well as talismans for protective shielding against hostile energies, often inscribed on amulets to be worn.  Whole systems were developed as an aid to the practice and grimoires were compiled in esoteric fashion, largely for purposes of spirit and demonic contact in pursuit of some magical goal of will.











We know that the hexagram is a very ancient symbol with multi-cultural lineage, the two interlaced triangles representing (a) a twining of dual powers or functions of the phenomenal world or (b) aligned point to point as a conjunction, vortex or wormhole symbol (actually this is a pentagram).








To the hexagram and pentagram were added various other sigils and geometric conflations, often compounding the sacred and magical elements with astrological themes.  The evolution of adding sigils and runes of pagan mysticism, numbers, Hebrew letters, and alchemical symbols into format with the hexagram, or with the similarly ancient pentagram, and morphing the geometry into a coherent shape, is said to have developed the subtle tuning of the talisman, to assist the working of energies according to the will and skill of the occult practitioner.  Use of the Seals of Solomon for occult practice and study has grown over time, and in modern practice is still associated with the summoning of spirits and demons.













The Eastern tradition concerns the making of the ring, and so we'll turn back to Solomon's time, close on a thousand years BCE.

It begins with a very ancient meteorite, fallen somewhere in the Tibetan/Mongolian mountainous plateau, that was formed in the shape of a shield tetrahedron and was composed of a greenish tektite sometimes called Moldavite (technically, if it doesn’t come from Moldavia, or modern Slovakia, then it’s not Moldavite.)  These tektites are glassy and magnetic, formed as the meteor’s surface is vaporized in the atmospheric fireball and re-formed in glassy ripples, found scattered near the impact site or as a skin striated upon the remnants of the meteorite itself, which would have been metallic.  They exist in various colors, but are quite rare. 






Their magnetic properties are curious and are considered to be psychic accelerators, varying from stone to stone, from meteor to meteor.  The stone which concerns us is undoubtedly the most famous tektitic meteor of all.

It’s called the Chintamani stone, or the wish-fulfilling jewel, or the Treasure of the World, and it figures in the traditions of both the Buddhist and Hindu canon.  In Buddhism the Chintamani is sometimes said to be one of four relics that came in a chest that fell from the sky.  Within Hinduism it is connected with the gods, Vishnu and Ganesha. In Hindu tradition it is often depicted as a fabulous jewel in the possession of the Naga king or as on the forehead of the Makara.  --Wikipedia

A maṇi-jewel; magical jewel, which manifests whatever one wishes for (Skt. maṇi, cintā-maṇi, cintāmaṇi-ratna). According to one's desires, treasures, clothing and food can be manifested, while sickness and suffering can be removed, water can be purified, etc. It is a metaphor for the teachings and virtues of the Buddha. … Said to be obtained from the dragon-king of the sea, or the head of the great fish, Makara, or the relics of a Buddha.  –Digital Dictionary of Buddhism

Skt: Cinta-mani. This is represented in art as a bluish colored stone as large as a crystal ball. Mani literally means "stone", in contrast to the word "jewel" (ratna). The term Cinta means "thought". The Cintamani is literally the "thought-stone" or the stone which magnifies one's thoughts, i.e., fulfils one's wishes.  –China Buddhism Encyclopedia

According to many occult writings, the Stone is kept in the hidden (or sometimes underground) city of Shambhala where live the Ascended Masters, or the Eight Immortals (Taoist), beings of high resonance and consciousness; fragments of it are lent out to humanity to assist them in the time of great change or opportunity.  Ancient Tibetan texts reveal a tradition of shards having been sent to King Solomon, Genghis Khan, and Akbar the Great, among others.  Nicholas Roerich, the Russian artist and mystic, Rosicrucian Martinist and Kalachakra initiate, received just such a shard in 1923, laid in an antique casket, to present to the League of Nations which was forming at the time; upon the failure of the League, Roerich returned ‘the Stone’ to the East.









Chintamani, the wish-fulfilling jewel mentioned in Tibetan religious tradition and Hindu legend, was one of the names Nicholas and Helena Roerich used for a possession which had two manifestations: firstly as a ‘spiritual treasure’, by which was meant the psychic faculty or ‘instrument’ each of them utilized; and secondly as the symbolic counterpart of the ‘treasure’ in material reality, which was a talisman of mineral nature. This is said to have been a ‘chip’ or piece from the main mass of a large meteoritic stone located at a place known by a legendary name – Shambhala. […]






The ‘chips’ or pieces of the Chintamani stone were believed to have a special property, which was to enhance psychic communication, and in particular to open channels to receive instruction and guidance from the ‘Ascended Masters’ of Shambhala. Pieces of the Chintamani stone were said to maintain a ‘magnetic connection’ with a main stone located at Shambhala – which, for the Roerichs, was likely to have had an identifiable location. The idea is found most clearly in Nicholas Roerich’s book Himalayas – Abode of Light, and the passage in which it occurs is perhaps the most informative statement about the Stone in any of the Roerichs’ writings: ‘Many… wonderful things have been told by educated Buriats and Mongols… of the miraculous stone coming from a far star, which is appearing in different places before great events… The chief body of this stone is lying in Shambhala, and a small piece of it is given out and wanders all over the earth, keeping magnetic connection with the main stone’.  –Chintamani of the Roerichs, Chap. 1

Roerich described the stone as greenish Moldavite with an undeniable psycho-magnetic energy; the Russian paranormal scientist Barchenko, who analyzed it in Moscow before sending it on to Roerich in Paris on behalf of the Panchen Lama of Tibet, wrote that the extra-terrestrial stone is stronger than penetrating Radium and its dynamic rays can instantly increase a person’s own vibratory frequency.



Many myths are attached to the stone.  It is also considered by some to symbolize an aspect of awakening or attainment, but may not be a physical object - contradicting the old Tibetan tradition of sending out pieces of an actual stone to exceptional persons.

For us, the meteoritic reality of the stone is first alluded to by Madame Blavatsky after she visited the Tashilumpo Monastery in Tibet and its Panchen Lama, late in the nineteenth century.  Nicholas Roerich’s extensive contacts with Russian, Mongolian, Indian, and Tibetan personages led to the shard being sent to him.  Helena Roerich, Nicholas’s wife, an associate and translator of Blavatsky, was a spiritual medium who encouraged her husband and son to travel to Tibet and Mongolia in 1925 after the failure of the League of Nations, to return the stone and find Shambhala.  Helena Roerich handled the stone while her husband had it in his keeping, used it for séances, and wrote about it in her diaries.


There is not enough room in this essay to fully expound on this topic, so we’ll here leave the East and the modern age and return to King Solomon, who reportedly received a shard of the Chintamani as a gift from the ‘King of the World’ in Shambhala, a piece of which he then set into his ring.  This then would be the ring that conjured ‘demons’, a greenish stone, a conveyor of great wisdom – a quality for which Solomon was renowned, in some legends found inside a great fish, a psycho-magnetic tektite from an iron meteorite that enabled a resonant connection with its parent specimen and with the Ascended Masters in Shambhala.

It is possible to speculate that if this were in fact the scenario, the high priest and elders of Jerusalem might have distrusted the ringstone’s pedigree and powers, and hid it away deep under the Temple Mount after Solomon had died, so that it may be lost.

Sources:

Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seal_of_Solomon, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cintamani, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus 

Professor Solomon: http://www.professorsolomon.com/ringofsolomon.html

Jewish Encyclopedia.com: http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/13843-solomon-seal-of

Silverhoofs.com: http://www.silverhoofs.com/seals_so.htm

Kaballah Online/Practical Kabbala: http://www.kabbala.co.il/site.php?page=sgulot11.html 

China Buddhism Encyclopedia: http://www.chinabuddhismencyclopedia.com/en/index.php?title=Cintamani..Wish_Fulfilling_Gem

James Axler.com: http://www.jamesaxler.com/outlanders...mani_stone.htm

Roerich Museum NY: http://www.roerich.org/

Roerich and Chintamani: http://roerichandchintamani.wordpre...inary-tales-of-an-extra-terrestrial-talisman/

Aruarian: http://www.aruarian.com/cintamani-stone/

Biblioteca Pleyades: http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sociopolitica/sociopol_shambahla09a.htm

http://www.esotericonline.net/profiles/blogs/3-solomon-s-seal-and-the-treasure-of-the-world

good read everyone!!!!!late but FANTASTIC JULY 4TH!!!!!!!!!!blessings!!!!!!!!!always HUMBLED AND ILLUMINATED when come back here!!!!!!!!!always!!!!!!!!!!!always!!!!!!!!!!weekend!!!!!!!!!http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sociopolitica/sociopol_shambahla09a.htm


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## LAMason (Jul 31, 2015)

promason said:


> My Page
> Chat
> 
> All Blog Posts
> ...



Total BS.


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## AndreAshlar (Feb 5, 2016)

Indeed I have.  The ESV. 

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## adrianchen (Feb 5, 2016)

Yes

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## Rifleman1776 (Feb 5, 2016)

No. And I don't intend to. I find the contradictions confusing.


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## Randy81 (Feb 5, 2016)

I have, but have not read the Old Testament in quite some time!


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## AndreAshlar (Feb 5, 2016)

Randy81 said:


> I have, but have not read the Old Testament in quite some time!


The OT is tough reading.


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## Randy81 (Feb 5, 2016)

AndreAshlar said:


> The OT is tough reading.


It certainly is! I often like to say I'm  a New Testament believer so that's my excuse! lol


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## dfreybur (Feb 5, 2016)

My next VSL project is the Book of Mormon.  It's the largest member of the JCI family whose VSL I have not yet read.  I have my eye out for the VSLs of smaller still family members like Rastafarian and Druse.

After the Book of Mormon I finally found a English translation of one of the a Shinto VSLs.  I gradually work through the list of world religions by population.


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## Bloke (Feb 6, 2016)

dfreybur said:


> My next VSL project is the Book of Mormon. .



I tried that, picked it up second hand... gave up....


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## Andrewsmith8504 (Sep 1, 2017)

I stick to the NIV, and a great book to read with the Bible is Don"t know much about the Bible. I used it to better understand the inconsistencies and understand the form and flow.

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## Brandon T Cole ᎡᏙᎰᎢ (Sep 6, 2017)

I prefer the King James Version when reading in English and the Reina Valera Version when reading in Spanish.

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## Derek Harvey (Sep 9, 2017)

Three or more times.

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## afrah (Sep 21, 2017)

My mom says to read the the whole Bible  is like that to get a higher education.


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## afrah (Sep 21, 2017)

My mom says to read the whole Bible is like that to get a higher education.


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## SivadSemaj (Jun 15, 2019)

ShadyGrove821 said:


> A number of years ago, I tried to slog my way through the King James Version. The 400 year old English is pretty, but rather difficult for me to follow.
> 
> I did some research on later English translations, and chose for my Old Testament: The Jewish Study Bible.
> http://www.amazon.com/Jewish-Study-Bible-Publication-Translation/dp/0195297512
> ...




One to consider using would be the Tree of Life Version.


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## jermy Bell (Jun 17, 2019)

With any book, read the first 3 pages and the last 2. You'll pretty much get the whole thing. Lol.


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