# Was this justified?



## owls84 (Aug 19, 2009)

Based on what is written in the story was that many shots justified? 

Click Here


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## JTM (Aug 19, 2009)

> "We have a large concern about the amount of shots fired," said Valoria Armstrong, president of the NAACP branch in Chattanooga.



well yea.  i've seen videos of a police sniper shooting a gun out of someone's hand.  they could've ended this some other way.


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## JBD (Aug 19, 2009)

Yes and I have seen the LA Bank Shoot out AND heard the Ron White explanation of these situations - "Let Poot Take Em Out"


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## Wingnut (Aug 19, 2009)

Gotta call BS on some of this story... he was laying down on top of the rifle but suffered shots to the face, chest, arms etc?  Who were the other 2 men that were wrestling over the gun per the report?  6 couldnt take a rifle from a man that had been hit with a stun gun?  No tazzer?  

Im also going to make a big assumption, the article says the LEOs were using .45s so Im going to assume Glock 21s which have a 10 shot mag.  There is 60 shots...  most departments train to shoot till the suspect is down.  Since they all shot at aproximatly the same time according to the story I agree with the assumption that they were justified in pulling the trigger.  Story states further that it took 30 secs, that really seems a bit slow to be honest.  30 secs for 10 rounds is a long time.  A couple of the LEOs seem to have some control issues.  Granted most first shots in a firefight are a miss.  A lot of second shots are, after that training kicks and and the nerves settle down a lot, many claim a tunnel vision effect sets in (dangerous in its self!).  For this reason most departments train to shoot for center of mass...


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## Wingnut (Aug 19, 2009)

we always refered to that type of shooting as "Spray and Pray"


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## owls84 (Aug 19, 2009)

JBD said:


> Yes and I have seen the LA Bank Shoot out AND heard the Ron White explanation of these situations - "Let Poot Take Em Out"



I so forgot about Poot that is great. I thought it was excessive my self. When I read they got close enough with a taser then how could they feel that threatened. I just think there is something missing. Plus it says 59 shots 6 LEOs so I thought of 10 shots each. Well in the story it says not everyone fired a shot and some reloaded.........what? You fired aprox. 10 shots and still feel the need to fire some more?? I mean Dude have you not priced bullets, lets save the tax payers money here. There is a librarian that lost her job because you decided to waste her weekly salary in brass.


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## JBD (Aug 19, 2009)

Bottom line?  
LEO's went home at the end of their shift.
BG - ehh..... not so much

I like this scenario than the opposite


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## Wingnut (Aug 19, 2009)

it said not all emptied their magazines... I need to find a youtube video to show you...  reloads under .05


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## Wingnut (Aug 19, 2009)

[video=youtube;O8bJ3TLEbZw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8bJ3TLEbZw&NR=1[/video]

I may not have put that in correctly, havent posted a video before...


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## owls84 (Aug 19, 2009)

You're right Bro. Wyndell, I read it as not all fired period but after going back not all "fired their bullets". It still seems that it was a bit excessive. 

"Police accounts and a patrol car video indicate the shots were fired in three volleys, all within 30 seconds. Each officer used a .45-caliber pistol. Some officers emptied their magazines, reloaded and fired again, while others didn't fire all their bullets, Weary said."

Just seems like if he wants to sit there and point a gun to his chin let him. It is at the point your life is in danger or someone elses becomes in danger than you need to nutralize the threat (disarm by any means). I mean you obviously don't want him to be killed but if that is what has to happen then fine, he put himself in that position. I am not buying the race card that it looks like Fox News is trying to add and good thing the NAACP don't look to be on board either, yet. 

Here is the sad part. 

Counts and Turner both said that during the first brief interruption in the barrage of police gunshots, they heard Heyward ask, "Why are you shooting me?"


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## Bill Lins (Aug 19, 2009)

Wingnut said:


> many claim a tunnel vision effect sets in...



BT,DT- absolutely true. You are concentrating on your target to the extent that that's all you see.

The time it happened to me, I was carrying a 4" Smith M29 with 200 gr. Speer ammo. I do not recall hearing the shot or feeling any recoil. All I remember is that the muzzle flash lit up the entire block (& that I missed the burglar but killed the piano next to him!).


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## Wingnut (Aug 20, 2009)

I dont know the history in Chatanooga very well, but about 15 years ago in Dallas, LEOs were getting shot at an alarming rate, including one of my cousins.  At the time they were still using .357 revolvers.  My cousins backup (2 officers) cornered the shooter and in the ensuing firefight the shooter was shot 18 times.  There wasnt another police shooting for a few years.  

as was stated, in the end the cops went home.  Justified, I think legally yes, abuse not hardly.  Still not buying all the items in the paper, they just dont add up.  As to the people that said they heard him say that, the police camera/recorders didnt pick it up, and depending on the range they were from the shooter and the LEOs, after hearing 30 or so shots from .45s I question if they heard it or if he was able to say it.  Id like to see the dash cams to see the full story if possible.
isnt the song... Dont shoot the piano player?

In that video that young man, Stage Name of Lead Dispenser shows how good some cowboy action shooters can be.  Im fast, but he hit everything lol  He is shooting .38spl that are reloaded at minimal power, I shoot .44mag that are somewhat watered down.  I need to get back into it, fun sport and good folks.


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## JTM (Aug 20, 2009)

Wingnut said:


> we always refered to that type of shooting as "Spray and Pray"



someone's played FPSes?


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## JBD (Aug 20, 2009)

owls84 said:


> You're right Bro. Wyndell, I read it as not all fired period but after going back not all "fired their bullets". It still seems that it was a bit excessive.
> 
> "Police accounts and a patrol car video indicate the shots were fired in three volleys, all within 30 seconds. Each officer used a .45-caliber pistol. Some officers emptied their magazines, reloaded and fired again, while others didn't fire all their bullets, Weary said."
> 
> ...



Josh - bottom line time again.  He isn't on the porch or in the street waving a gun around - there would be no police there.  He gives up the gun when commanded, no drawn weapons.  He precipitated this incident.  He continued the incident.  We weren't there, we didn't have to stand there and face a guy with a gun whom we do not know, have no idea about mental state, drug use, violent tendencies, previous weapons training or anything else.

All you get to decide is this - does he get a chance to kill me, my partner, one of the neighbors or himself.  

I am all for GG 1 - BG 0 - game over.


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## Wingnut (Aug 20, 2009)

JTM said:


> someone's played FPSes?



?


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