# F&AM and AF&AM



## EZFlyer (Aug 28, 2012)

So I understand there is a difference between F&AM and AF&AM. However, my question is can you belong to both? When I joined I was informed that non-PHA lodges are the ones you would have to join to get up to the 33rd degree, and PHA only goes to 32nd. Is it possible to be both F&AM and AF&AM so you can receive the most light as possible?


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## kosei (Aug 28, 2012)

False, i know plenty of PHA masons that are 33rd and didn't have to cross over to AF&AM. That was a tactic used by irregular bodies who use(AF&AM) to deter them from joining a PHA F&AM lodge. They also use to say that if a PHA mason wanted to go thru the Scottish Rite he would have to come over to the AF&AM side which is false.


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## scialytic (Aug 28, 2012)

Damn! That's some shady @$&$...F&AM PHA...these Brothers will get you taken care of.


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## EZFlyer (Aug 28, 2012)

Okay. Thanks. I was raised within this last year so I am still learning everything. I have already traveled to the Virgin Islands and met a brother out there. Now I am studying a few Manly P Hall books.


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## Bro. David F. Hill (Aug 29, 2012)

The Grand Lecturer has created a online education class that may be something to help you on your journey.  Hit me up if you want more information.


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## towerbuilder7 (Sep 14, 2012)

Bro EZFlyer, where do you hail from?    just curious.........I'm with Bro Kosei on this one...........That is the same lame argument I heard for three years when I was a member of an AF&AM "Grand Lodge" here in Houston.    They always told me that "I had to come back to the Scottish Rite to get the REAL degrees anyway".    By calling AF&AM Masonry "The Scottish Rite", I discovered how mis-informed some actually were.    The Scottish Rite is a set of Degrees WITHIN Masonry, not a form of Masonry.   After doing my research, I made the decision to petition to a PHA F&AM Lodge.    I will always love the Brothers there, but I had to re-affiliate for ME and my benefit.            Bro Jones


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## JTM (Sep 16, 2012)

Good answers, brethren.


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## EZFlyer (Sep 23, 2012)

I am from a lodge in East Texas but I moved to Austin.


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## kosei (Sep 25, 2012)

EZFlyer said:


> I am from a lodge in East Texas but I moved to Austin.



Does your lodge have a name and what grand lodge is it under?


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## BryanMaloney (Sep 27, 2012)

One little detail: Scottish rite degrees are not higher degrees. There is only one high degree in Freemasonry: Master Mason. That is the highest degree within Freemasonry. Any group that tells you any degree is higher than this is violating basic tenets of Freemasonry.


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## Brother JB (Mar 19, 2013)

What is the difference between F&AM and AF AM? I'm new to this App and I'm a newly made and Young EA I was initiated last month

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## bupton52 (Mar 20, 2013)

Brother JB said:


> What is the difference between F&AM and AF AM? I'm new to this App and I'm a newly made and Young EA I was initiated last month
> 
> Freemason Connect Premium App



Now, I hate to be redundant, but I don't want the following information to get misunderstood. This information ONLY refers to either of the TWO REGULAR Grand Lodges in each state: The GL of State or the MWPHGL of State. With that being said, the following should answer your question.


In actuality, it does not matter whether you join an AF & AM lodge or an F & AM lodge in the United States.
In the U.S., every regular lodge is under the jurisdiction of its state Grand Lodge.  Due to the fact that there is no Grand Lodge Headquarters for each state's separate Grand Lodge, each state's Grand Lodge is, therefore, its own "headquarters" within that state's jurisdiction.
All Freemasons, both AF & AM (which means *A*ncient *F*ree and *A*ccepted *M*asons, as well as *F* & *AM*, which means Free and Accepted Masons, trace their allegorical history back to the building of Solomon's temple in the Holy Scriptures.
Freemasonry was exported to the British Colonies in North America in the 1730s—with both the "Ancients" (sometimes also referred to as "Antients") and the "Moderns" (as well as the Grand Lodges of Ireland and Scotland) which chartered offspring ("daughter") lodges, and organized various Provincial Grand Lodges.
After the American Revolution, independent U.S. Grand Lodges formed within each state.

[h=3]Ancient Free and Accepted Masons versus Free and Accepted Masons[/h]From 1751 to 1813, there were actually 2 Grand Lodges in England.  The difference in AF and AM vs F and AM states goes back to a disagreement between these 2 Grand Lodges in London at that time. 
One group was called the "Moderns", but was actually the older of the 2 English Grand Lodges.  The other group was called the "Antients", which became the "Ancients" in AF and AM.

Due to this disagreement, the 2 groups broke into separate Grand Lodges.  The disagreement was later healed around 1880, but by that time, there were lodges and Grand Lodges all over the United States that were descended from one group or the other, and so each group kept their corresponding initials with which they were formed, (which is the reason for which there are small differences within different states' ritual wording and Grand Lodge By-Laws and procedures).
Most Grand Lodges in the U.S. recognize each other and treat each other's members as valid Masons.
Also, all of the U.S. Grand Lodges recognize (and are recognized by) the official Grand Lodges of England, Ireland, Scotland and the Grand Lodges in most of Europe, Asia, Africa, South America, Thailand, India, etc.
[h=3]Prince Hall Masonic Lodge[/h]
Historically, the regular (mainstream) Grand Lodges did not recognize the lodges under the "Prince Hall" Grand Lodges.
The Prince Hall Masonic Lodge descends from a lodge of Black Freemasons in Boston begun by a Black man by the name of Prince Hall. 
Prince Hall Free Masonry began during the War of Independence, when Prince Hall and fourteen other free black men were initiated into Lodge # 441, Irish Constitution, attached to the 38th Regiment of Foot of the British Army garrisoned at Castle Williams...now called Fort Independence, at Boston Harbor on March 6, 1775. 
Later, they applied for and received a Charter from the Grand Lodge of England. 
After Prince Hall passed away, the lodge ceased to function.  Many years later, Black Masons established their own Prince Hall Masonic Grand Lodge.  They subsequently issued charters to Black men for subordinate lodges. 
Today, many Prince Hall Masonic Grand Lodge are recognized by the regular (mainstream) Grand Lodges.  In other states, they are termed as affiliated. 
Any Prince Hall Masonic Grand Lodge which is not recognized by their regular counterparts are termed as irregular (non-mainstream) lodges.
--------------------------------------------------------------------​​​AF and AM vs F and AM states grand lodges may be determined as to which state is which, below.

[h=3]AF and AM vs F and AM States... vs AFM States... vs FAAM States[/h][h=3]--------------------------------------------------[/h][h=3]AF & AM States[/h]*AF & AM *- Ancient Free and Accepted Masons​​​These 24 AF & AM states include:  CO, CT, DE, ID, IL, IA, KS, ME, MD, MA, MN, MO, MT, NE, NM, NC, ND, OK, OR, SD, TX, VA, WV, WY.​​​[h=4]F & A M States:[/h]*F & AM* - Free and Accepted Masons​​​These 25 F & AM states include:  AL, AK, AR, AZ, CA, FL, GA, HI, IN, KY, LA, MI, MS, NH, NJ, NV, NY, OH, PA, RI, TN, UT, VT, WA, WI.​​​All Prince Hall lodges are also F. & A.M.​​​[h=4]AFM State:[/h]*AFM* - Ancient Free Masons​​​There is 1 AFM state:  SC   ​​​[h=4]FAAM District:[/h]*FAAM* - Free And Accepted Masons​​​The District of Columbia is F.A.A.M.​​​---------------------------------------------------------------------​​​​​​So, what is the difference between Ancient Free and Accepted Masons, and Free and Accepted Masons and the members of Accepted Free Mason states and Free and Accepted Mason states?​​​The few intrinsic differences between *AF and AM* vs *F and AM* states grand lodges, the *AFM* grand lodge in South Carolina, and the *FAAM* in Washington, D.C., are minimal.​​​While both AF and AM vs F and AM states exist, along with AFM states and FAAM in the District of Columbia, (with small differences in ritual wording, some officer titles, etc.) in essence, these minimal differences are not as important as the shared brotherhood between all of these groups within the fraternity. ​​​ 
The only time that this difference might be important is if you purchase a piece of Masonic jewelry, a Past Master apron, a Masonic shirt, Masonic certificate, or other item which is engraved, embroidered or printed with a specific jurisdictional designation.
Some of these items are pre-printed with a specific designation. Therefore, knowing the designation of your particular lodge (AF and AM vs F and AM states, etc.), proves helpful so as not to mis-order an item.


Read more: http://www.masonic-lodge-of-education.com/af-and-am-vs-f-and-am-states.html#ixzz2O58IdzH0


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## Bro. Stewart P.M. (Mar 20, 2013)

Heck, I am both AF&AM as well as F&AM.

There isn't anything "regular" about me! LOL!!


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## KSigMason (Mar 20, 2013)

I like using graphical representations, and this is one I've posted on other threads and sites. I used the same info from bupton's post above.


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## JFS61 (Mar 21, 2013)

The use of the AF&AM and F&AM suffix is a bit problematic and not always a true indicator of either Ancient or Modern descent. For example, The Grand Lodge of Pennsylvania derives its charter from the Ancient Grand Lodge of England, but uses F&AM. The Grand Lodge of Louisiana, which is descended from the Ancients via The Grand Lodge of Pennsylvania and The Grand Lodge Of South Carolina (AFM), uses the F&AM suffix as well. And as we all know, The Grand Lodge of Texas, a descendant of the abovementioned three Grand Lodges, uses (quite rightfully) the AF&AM suffix. Thus (as is the case in much of masonic history), the answer is really not quite as simple nor clear cut as it appears to be on the surface.


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## KSigMason (Mar 21, 2013)

JFS61 said:


> The use of the AF&AM and F&AM suffix is a bit problematic and not always a true indicator of either Ancient or Modern descent. For example, The Grand Lodge of Pennsylvania derives its charter from the Ancient Grand Lodge of England, but uses F&AM. The Grand Lodge of Louisiana, which is descended from the Ancients via The Grand Lodge of Pennsylvania and The Grand Lodge Of South Carolina (AFM), uses the F&AM suffix as well. And as we all know, The Grand Lodge of Texas, a descendant of the abovementioned three Grand Lodges, uses (quite rightfully) the AF&AM suffix. Thus (as is the case in much of masonic history), the answer is really not quite as simple nor clear cut as it appears to be on the surface.


Excellent point.


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## MarkR (Mar 23, 2013)

Brother JB said:


> What is the difference between F&AM and AF AM? I'm new to this App and I'm a newly made and Young EA I was initiated last month
> 
> Freemason Connect Premium App


I just looked at your profile, and it lists your Grand Lodge as "The Most Worshipful Sons of Light, California and Oregon Incorporated."  That is neither F&AM nor AF&AM.  It is an entirely clandestine organization, not recognized by any regular Masonic body.


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## dfreybur (Apr 4, 2013)

BryanMaloney said:


> One little detail: Scottish rite degrees are not higher degrees. There is only one high degree in Freemasonry: Master Mason. That is the highest degree within Freemasonry. Any group that tells you any degree is higher than this is violating basic tenets of Freemasonry.



My valley teaches that the degrees they present are "further not higher".


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## scialytic (Apr 4, 2013)

I've heard Chapter and Council use the terminology "Honorary Degree of ..." I thought that was pretty respectful of our foundation...


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## Bro. Staton (Oct 20, 2014)

Bro. David F. Hill said:


> The Grand Lecturer has created a online education class that may be something to help you on your journey.  Hit me up if you want more information.


 Could you provide me this information....

Thank you
Bro Staton


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