dwashington55
Registered User
I am AF&AM and would like to become PHA. Does anyone know what to do? I've spoke to a few brothers and no one had an answer.
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Switching from AFAM to PHA
- Thread starter dwashington55
- Start date
djgiles1984
Registered User
From my understanding brother it should be a simple transfer. PHA does recognize AF&AM.
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J
jdmadsen
Guest
Well my question to u is do you mean "mainstream Af&am" or do u mean four letter pha? If u mean four letter pha or "john jones" masonry then u must go through a healing process.
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dwashington55
Registered User
I'm "mainstream AF&AM"
dfreybur
Premium Member
Depending on the jurisdiction they might or might not ask you to do a healing process. I was told Texas would but I don't know if that was an opinion or the result of looking it up in the book.
Depending on the jurisdiction they might or might not ask you to demit from all other lodges in the process. Back at the time of recognition in the 1990s California would but I don't know if that is still how their rules work.
A healing process might be fun depending on the content. I am a life/endowed member in two jurisdictions so far so I can not foresee ever petitioning a lodge in a single lodge membership jurisdiction.
J
jdmadsen
Guest
Just find a pha lodge near you. Find out when they meet and go, that is if ur current jurisdiction is recognized by them ave vice versa
dwashington55
Registered User
Thanks for all the info!
jwardl
Registered User
Currently, the "mainstream" Grand Lodge (AF&AM) and PHA Grand Lodge (F&AM) have full recognition and intervisitation. However, one cannot be a member of both simultaneously. If you're a member of either GL and seek to join the other, it's necessary to first demit.
In time, I'm sure this requirement will be dropped.
There is no 4 letter PHA that I know of. Those are clandestine lodges. PHA is usually F & AM although that may be some exceptions.
That depends on what state you live in.
jwardl
Registered User
True... I meant to edit the quoted post I was responding to such that it referred specifically to Texas, and neglected to do so. Thank you helping to clarify.
Ripcord22A
Site Benefactor
Hence why i said that youd have to go thru a healing process. And why i refernced them as john jones masonry
Archangel Raised
Registered User
Bro @dwashington55 many Brothers have given you correct and thoughtful brotherly advice. . . so my below is premised specifically for California.
In addition to the salient advice above, you will have to resign from mainstream masonry to join a PHA blue lodge. It is not due to the your mainstream side. . . your fraternal (AF&AM) brothers allow dual affiliation.
No healing is necessary to PHA jurisdiction. You aren't seen as clandestine as a (AF&AM) brother.
It is because of the protective mechanisms of MWPHGL of California.
You will have demit/resign from mainstream because PHGL does not allow even dual affiliation within PHA blue lodges.
One blue lodge to a brother.
I am starting my work to have this reviewed.
My strong suggestion is to use the opportunity of intervisitation to become my lodge brother. Ride the fence between both jurisdictions and before too long, we will be able to lower these survival mechanisms.
The future of Prince Hall should be about inclusion of mainstream, and vice versa for both of our survival.
Fraternal Light,
Tevis
In addition to the salient advice above, you will have to resign from mainstream masonry to join a PHA blue lodge. It is not due to the your mainstream side. . . your fraternal (AF&AM) brothers allow dual affiliation.
No healing is necessary to PHA jurisdiction. You aren't seen as clandestine as a (AF&AM) brother.
It is because of the protective mechanisms of MWPHGL of California.
You will have demit/resign from mainstream because PHGL does not allow even dual affiliation within PHA blue lodges.
One blue lodge to a brother.
I am starting my work to have this reviewed.
My strong suggestion is to use the opportunity of intervisitation to become my lodge brother. Ride the fence between both jurisdictions and before too long, we will be able to lower these survival mechanisms.
The future of Prince Hall should be about inclusion of mainstream, and vice versa for both of our survival.
Fraternal Light,
Tevis
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You said 4 letter PHA or John Jones.
dfreybur
Premium Member
Bro Tevis,
When you write that you are starting your work to have this reviewed, do you mean the "one blue lodge to a brother" policy of the MWPHGLofCA or do you mean the "no cross affiliation" restriction of the recognition compact? A reminder that either way you'll need to go through the line to have a voting membership at grand lodge.
If you mean the MWPHGLofCA policy that no brother can be a member of more than one lodge, to me that falls under the "your jurisdiction your rules" category. I consider it strange. I have no plans to demit from either of the jurisdictions where I am a Past Master and life (endowed) member so I have no plans to ever affiliate with a lodge that has that rule but I don't consider it problematic. If you want to work to change that policy go for it but all I can do from this side is cheer you on.
If you mean the original recognition compact from the 1990s that allows visitation (been there, done that) but not cross affiliation, I do not like that from either side. It set up a second class recognition that has never been resolved. If you wish to work legislation to amend the compact to "Full traditional recognition without restrictions on the part of our jurisdiction. As usual if the recognized jurisdiction imposes restrictions that is up to them" I am willing to coordinate with you on the effort. I am a PM in GLofCA so I can submit legislation on our end. I'd be able to get enough signatures just in my mother lodge but I doubt getting a signature from at least one PM in every lodge in my district will be difficult.
The schedule for GLofCA legislation goes like this - GL is the Thu-Sat on the weekend before Columbus Day in October. The proceedings comes online about February of every year. The deadline for legislation is the beginning of May. The window to present at Stated meetings and gather signatures is the March and April Stated meetings.
Archangel Raised
Registered User
Blessings Worshipful Bro @dfreybur, and thank you for your thoughtful and measured response.
It is a massive uphill battle, this fight I am proposing.
I had a heated discussion with the WM of my blue lodge last night. The usual, ". . .innovate or die", on my part; and the and the, ". . . stop rocking the boat/dont embarass yourself/it's just the way it's done," from this 72 year old brother.
Supremely frustrated, I am of the mind to just demit and be done with it.
I am NOT retired, and don't have the luxury of endless time to devote to this.
So the penultimate question. . . .
. . . we are tasked to grow within the craft by striving to seek the light. . . which is our main focus?
OR
. . . are we tasked to be builders to sustain the craft, even with fierce opposition from the PMs?
Brothers, your thots?
It is a massive uphill battle, this fight I am proposing.
I had a heated discussion with the WM of my blue lodge last night. The usual, ". . .innovate or die", on my part; and the and the, ". . . stop rocking the boat/dont embarass yourself/it's just the way it's done," from this 72 year old brother.
Supremely frustrated, I am of the mind to just demit and be done with it.
I am NOT retired, and don't have the luxury of endless time to devote to this.
So the penultimate question. . . .
. . . we are tasked to grow within the craft by striving to seek the light. . . which is our main focus?
OR
. . . are we tasked to be builders to sustain the craft, even with fierce opposition from the PMs?
Brothers, your thots?
Change doesn't happen overnight. It takes time. If you really want change, go through the line.
dfreybur
Premium Member
It must be both. With one or the other our Craft is lost to future generations. Any one brother may make a personal choice or either/or, but we as the sum of members absolutely can not make it and either/or choice. We must make it AND.
Striving to seek the light within leads to us living the sort of life that has others ask to join us. Being builders through the process of degrees, degree instruction, line and organizational efforts allow us to replicate forward into the next generation. Even in the "lost generation" or "me generation" of late boomers who mostly did not join any society some joined our assemblies (I am among these). Even without those of my generation the generation before me lived long enough to move Masonry forward to the generation after me.
As you post I grow less sure of what it is you intend to change. If you encounter resistance, understand that the first lesson we learn is patience. For many including me it's the hardest to learn. Also understand that water is patient. When faced with a wall water will seek a way over that wall, under that wall, around that wall, or to gradually erode the wall away by action of the waves. By discussing a switch from jurisdiction to jurisdiction might you be trying to work around an obstacle by going the longest possible way? I suggest that you likely don't even need to leave your lodge just do it, whatever "it" is.
Archangel Raised
Registered User
Wise words Worshipful Brother. Thank you!