Masonic Recognition

[Brother JStoffo]

The Masonic Obligation taken in Florida includes a phrase relating to not having Masonic communication with members of "clandestine" Lodges. Yet this term seems to apply to various groups depending on which State you are in. Some Southern states do not recognize Prince Hall Lodges for example. However, the Prince Hall Masonic Lodges have a charter from the Grand Lodge of England, same as "recognized" Grand Lodges in the United States. I have occasionally attended Masonic Philosophical discussions and it was stated that this group calls themselves "co-Masonry" and includes women. So, is there such a thing as a "real" Masonic group? If yes and it is determined by a Charter from the Grand Lodge of England, which other Masonic groups should be recognized in the United States?

 

[Winter]

 

[Mike Martin]

The Masonic Obligation taken in Florida includes a phrase relating to not having Masonic communication with members of "clandestine" Lodges. Yet this term seems to apply to various groups depending on which State you are in. Some Southern states do not recognize Prince Hall Lodges for example. However, the Prince Hall Masonic Lodges have a charter from the Grand Lodge of England, same as "recognized" Grand Lodges in the United States. I have occasionally attended Masonic Philosophical discussions and it was stated that this group calls themselves "co-Masonry" and includes women. So, is there such a thing as a "real" Masonic group? If yes and it is determined by a Charter from the Grand Lodge of England, which other Masonic groups should be recognized in the United States?

So you've bundled various questions into the one BIG question here, I think I can help with some of it:

"Clandestine" is a pretty American term when it comes to Freemasonry and each of your individual Grand Lodges decide what they consider to be clandestine and then communicate this to their members.

PHA Grand Lodges do not operate under a Charter from the UGLE. The first Lodge (African Lodge No. 459) that Prince Hall started after his Mother Lodge left the Americas and left him and his friends Lodge-less did and that Warrant was granted by the Premier Grand Lodge of England. The events that led to the UGLE came later. The rest of the PHA system was self started as these guys were unable to join main-stream Lodges due to the prevailing situation in America at the time.

The American War of Independence put an end to influence by the British (England, Ireland & Scotland) aka Home Grand Lodges in American Freemasonry, including Africa Lodge No. 459. All of the Grand Lodges in America are sovereign and independent not just of the UGLE but of each other too. However, that does not stop them choosing to cooperate with other Grand Lodges.

Co-Masonry is generally not recognised by traditional men-only Freemasonry for obvious reasons although it fails all of the "Basic Criteria for Recognition" used by the Home Grand Lodges.

I hope that this is a bit helpful.

 

[Bloke]

The Masonic Obligation taken in Florida includes a phrase relating to not having Masonic communication with members of "clandestine" Lodges. Yet this term seems to apply to various groups depending on which State you are in. Some Southern states do not recognize Prince Hall Lodges for example. However, the Prince Hall Masonic Lodges have a charter from the Grand Lodge of England, same as "recognized" Grand Lodges in the United States. I have occasionally attended Masonic Philosophical discussions and it was stated that this group calls themselves "co-Masonry" and includes women. So, is there such a thing as a "real" Masonic group? If yes and it is determined by a Charter from the Grand Lodge of England, which other Masonic groups should be recognized in the United States?

So you've bundled various questions into the one BIG question here, I think I can help with some of it:

I agree with Bro Mike.. but at the end of the day,.. to keep my answer really simple, is what really and only counts which what your Grand Lodge says about which GL you do ad do not recognised..

And I wonder if "Masonic communication"is defined somewhere ?

 

[Glen Cook]

Br Martin covered the majority of your questions. These are the standards your GL uses to determine recognition:

Commission on Information for Recognition

All submissions and requests to make presentations must be submitted to the Commission Secretary by December 1 at commissionsecretary22@gmail.com. should you not receive an acknowledgement, please contact the Secretary by phone: +801-554-4154 (also WhatsApp). Our next meeting will be Monday, 18...

masonicrecognition.org

 

[Brother JStoffo]

Thank you, Brothers. I am happy to say that even in Florida, the Grand Lodge is discussing cooperation and communication with Prince Hall Lodges and most Florida Masons agree that the time is well past due for this. So yes, the short answer is that a Mason operates under his US State Grand Lodge rules. Any Oregon Masons on this thread? I am in Oregon until the end of Hurricane season.

 

[Glen Cook]

Thank you, Brothers. I am happy to say that even in Florida, the Grand Lodge is discussing cooperation and communication with Prince Hall Lodges and most Florida Masons agree that the time is well past due for this. So yes, the short answer is that a Mason operates under his US State Grand Lodge rules. Any Oregon Masons on this thread? I am in Oregon until the end of Hurricane season.

To clarify, GL of FL is in amity with Union GL of FL, PHA.

 

[coachn]

The Masonic Obligation taken in Florida includes a phrase relating to not having Masonic communication with members of "clandestine" Lodges.

Does the GL of FL actually define, "Masonic communication" anywhere in its literature?

 

[Brother JStoffo]

I just spoke with the Grand Lodge of Florida. There is no written definition of "Masonic Communication". It is understood to be any communication that you would have to be a Grand Lodge Mason to participate in. This would include anything that happens inside of a Lodge at Labor. Also, the Grand Lodge representative said that Florida is working on a cooperative program with Prince Hall Lodge right now. We are in Amity at a Grand Lodge level and are working on independent Lodge level visitations now. So, baby steps are required to proceed with a situation that has been on the move for 240 years.

 

[Mike Martin]

I just spoke with the Grand Lodge of Florida. There is no written definition of "Masonic Communication". It is understood to be any communication that you would have to be a Grand Lodge Mason to participate in. This would include anything that happens inside of a Lodge at Labor. Also, the Grand Lodge representative said that Florida is working on a cooperative program with Prince Hall Lodge right now. We are in Amity at a Grand Lodge level and are working on independent Lodge level visitations now. So, baby steps are required to proceed with a situation that has been on the move for 240 years.

I don't know if you noticed but the words above seem to put an onus on you for caution when you're involved with the philosophical meetings you mentioned at the top. The rules of your Grand Lodge seem to prevent you discussing "anything that happens inside a Lodge at Labour" which means you may not discuss these with people who are irregular or are members of Lodges under unrecognised jurisdictions.

 

[coachn]

I just spoke with the Grand Lodge of Florida. There is no written definition of "Masonic Communication". It is understood to be any communication that you would have to be a Grand Lodge Mason to participate in. This would include anything that happens inside of a Lodge at Labor. Also, the Grand Lodge representative said that Florida is working on a cooperative program with Prince Hall Lodge right now. We are in Amity at a Grand Lodge level and are working on independent Lodge level visitations now. So, baby steps are required to proceed with a situation that has been on the move for 240 years.

Here's why I asked:

Words and terms take their meaning from surrounding context. Hence, the definition is by way of "use within context".

It's pretty safe to say, by anyone who is well schooled in the Trivium, from context that "communications" is about a specific type of masonic event where a Lodge is open for business. So, to not have masonic communication with so and so is to not sit in open lodge with the wrong people.

However, because so many members are NOT schooled well in the Trivium, many unschooled members will be led to believe that masonic communication is taking about masonic things.

Of course, the GM is the ONLY member of any GL that can provide an interpretation, regardless of schooling, so, you know, no matter what you come up with, you'll get overruled if you're not "the guy".

 

[Bloke]

Here's why I asked:

Words and terms take their meaning from surrounding context. Hence, the definition is by way of "use within context".

It's pretty safe to say, by anyone who is well schooled in the Trivium, from context that "communications" is about a specific type of masonic event where a Lodge is open for business. So, to not have masonic communication with so and so is to not sit in open lodge with the wrong people.

However, because so many members are NOT schooled well in the Trivium, many unschooled members will be led to believe that masonic communication is taking about masonic things.

Of course, the GM is the ONLY member of any GL that can provide an interpretation, regardless of schooling, so, you know, no matter what you come up with, you'll get overruled if you're not "the guy".

Hey ! We're not taking about logic here but rules - they don't always match

But a bit of Logic and thought might help

We don't define "Masonic communication" in our Rules 1 to 415 in Our Constitution or the Schedules which follow. But we have three Foundational Documents before Rule 1

These include "THE CHARGES OF A FREEMASON For the use of Lodges" which is from Anderson's Constitution (1723). Beside the actual Degree Obligations, they are what I would use as my guide. These include:

4. BEHAVIOUR IN PRESENCE OF STRANGERS NOT MASONS.
You shall be cautious in your words and carriage, that the most penetrating stranger shall not be able to discover or find out what is not proper to be intimated; and sometimes you shall divert a discourse, and manage it prudently for the honour of the Worshipful Fraternity.

5. BEHAVIOUR AT HOME AND IN YOUR NEIGHBOURHOOD.
You are to act as becomes a moral and wise man; particularly not to let your family, friends, and neighbours know the concerns of the Lodge, etc., but wisely to consult your own honour, and that of your Antient Brotherhood, for reasons not to be mentioned here. You must also consult your health by not continuing together too late or too long from home after Lodge hours are past; and by avoiding of gluttony or drunkenness, that your families be not neglected or injured, nor you disabled from working.

6. BEHAVIOUR TOWARDS A STRANGE BROTHER.
You are cautiously to examine him in such a method as prudence shall direct you, that you may not be imposed upon by an ignorant, false pretender, whom you are to reject with contempt and derision, and beware of giving him any hints of knowledge.

But if you discover him to be a true and genuine Brother, you are to respect him accordingly; and if he is in want you must relieve him if you can, or else direct him how he may be relieved. You must employ him some days, or else recommend him to be employed. But you are not charged to do beyond your ability; only to prefer a poor Brother that is a good man and true before any other poor people in the same circumstances.