Ladies Freemasonry in the UK video

[Dontrell Stroman]

I enjoy a "male" only fraternity. Our craft is ancient and should not be altered nor changed to pacifiy a hand full of people. If regular and recognized lodges start to admit women I will become inactive. I guess you can say I will no longer be a travelingman.

Sent from my LG-LS997 using My Freemasonry mobile app

 

[Bloke]

Was it the Oddfellows who where exclusively male then began admitting women in an attempt to bolster numbers, if not them than some order..
Either way while I don’t pretend to know what the future holds but I can see a misguided attempt to make masonry the family friendly organisation and say extend recognition to more diverse orders and as time goes on things change.
Just a pie in the sky idea but who knows, honestly I don’t worry myself with the dealings of grand lodges here or abroad as I have plenty going on at my home lodge.

**EDITED**
Original Post - IOOF is men only.
Edited Post - IOOF now admits women into, not just its Rebecca Lodges, but also its primary lodges which were traditionally men only.

 

[David612]

IOOF is men only.

Hmmm who am I thinking of.. I donno.
I guess it didn’t really matter it’s just an example to illustrate the point that the only reason I can see them extending recognition would be some misguided attempt to address an issue they don’t understand the cause of, not that I’m claiming to have answers on that front.

 

[Mike Martin]

UGLE seems to agree (although I often see this from secondary sources and not UGLE itself) that "...Freemasonry is not confined to men"

The 1999 declaration appears on page 46 of the UGLE booklet entitled "Information for Guidance of Members of the Craft" which you can read here: http://www.ugle.org.uk/images/files/Information_Booklet_-_2016_-_Website_Edition_Secured.pdf

 

[Mike Martin]

These female GLs being more than a century old must surely, by male example, be permitted to declare themselves time immemorial and thereby free of having to demonstrate authority.

For what purpose?

 

[Mike Martin]

IOOF is men only.

Not according to its website: http://www.ioof.org/

I quote "We are the family of Odd Fellowship, composed of Men, Women, and Youth, believing in a supreme being, the creator and preserver of the universe, who have come together in our local communities having the same beliefs and values as others, that; Friendship, Love and Truth are the basic guidelines that we need to follow in our daily lives. Through working in our local Communities, States, Provinces, or Nationally we understand that we can make a difference in the lives of people in our World."

 

[Mike Martin]

I'd be more than shocked if UGLE recognised them as regular.

As would I! Both feminine Grand Lodges have been applying for recognition every couple of decades for as long as they've existed.

 

[CLewey44]

Yeah something like Daughters of Rebekah maybe is apart of IOOFs. Maybe it's their OES? Not sure. However, to compare OFs with Freemasonry is a little different. I think an IOOF member would be able to clarify all of this vs. speculation.

 

[Bloke]

Not according to its website: http://www.ioof.org/

I quote "We are the family of Odd Fellowship, composed of Men, Women, and Youth, believing in a supreme being, the creator and preserver of the universe, who have come together in our local communities having the same beliefs and values as others, that; Friendship, Love and Truth are the basic guidelines that we need to follow in our daily lives. Through working in our local Communities, States, Provinces, or Nationally we understand that we can make a difference in the lives of people in our World."

I think they would be talking about auxiliaries like the Rebekah Lodges - like we have OES & Amaranth in some parts... but there are some IOOF members here who might be able to clarify... although I do note "Some branches of the order (i.e., some countries) have allowed women to join the Odd Fellows itself," https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independent_Order_of_Odd_Fellows#20th_century but I am moderately sure it remains a fraternity

 

[LK600]

It is better that lodges close than that women be admitted.

Agreed. We are what we are, and I am not interested in becoming something else. Maybe we should check with the Odd fellows to see how that worked out for them?

 

[LK600]

IOOF is men only.

To my knowledge Odd Fellows is not men only and hasn't been for some time. Maybe there's two separate orgs?

on edit, I found this:

 

[Warrior1256]

I enjoy a "male" only fraternity. Our craft is ancient and should not be altered nor changed to pacifiy a hand full of people. If regular and recognized lodges start to admit women I will become inactive. I guess you can say I will no longer be a travelingman.

Absolutely!

Fortunately Freemasons are made of sterner stuff. It is better that lodges close than that women be admitted.

Yes.

 

[Bloke]

Hmmm "The Odd Fellows opened general membership to women in 2001, said Dino Fioran, secretary for the provincial organization of Odd Fellows."
http://www.timescolonist.com/news/l...rs-woman-leads-victoria-odd-fellows-1.1734684

And

"When the Rebekah Degree was authorized by Odd Fellowship in the 19th Century, it was a huge breakthrough for women. Odd Fellows became the first fraternal order to admit women. Well, initially Odd Fellowship didn’t exactly admit women on the same par with men. The Rebekah Degree was created as an “honorary degree” than men could confer on their wives and daughters. Women were still not admitted into Lodges of Odd Fellows.... Essentially, the Odd Fellows Lodge became known as the “man’s Lodge” and the Rebekah Lodge became known as the “woman’s Lodge.” In fact, even today, some of the most senior members of the Order still refer to the Lodges in this fashion. That changed (thankfully) around the turn of the 21st Century, when membership in Odd Fellows Lodges was finally opened to women."

http://davislodge.org/dmc-degree-equality/
(and in the above link there is talk of the decline of the order)
And

"From 1945 to 2010 – a period spanning three generations – IOOF in California, and the rest of North America – saw a precipitous drop in membership. In California, membership dropped by over 90%. Clearly, the decline was unsustainable."

Its seems women are now part of mainstream IOOF Lodges, not just the Rebecca Lodges..

 

[Brother JC]

2017 FL Digest -

“Antiquity: Those beliefs and those practices which were fixed at the time when Freemasonry emerged from its prehistoric era into the period of recorded Masonic history.”

“Universality: A suggested Landmark has universality when it is one of the practices, principles, or beliefs which Masons everywhere accept, believe, and practice and without which there would be no Freemasonry.”

Section 2. The Most Worshipful Grand Lodge of Free and Accepted Masons of Florida hereby recognizes, as being Landmarks of Freemasonry, the following: (a) A belief in the existence of one ever living and true God.
(b) A belief in the immortality of the human soul and a resurrection thereof to a Future Life.
(c) The Volume of the Sacred Law, open upon the Altar, is an indispensable furnishing of every regular Lodge while at labor.
(d) The Legend of the Third Degree.
(e) Secrecy, which includes: The necessary words, signs, and tokens, whereby one Mason may know another to be such, ‘in darkness as in light,’ that every regular Lodge must be tyled while at labor; that every visitor seeking admission to the Lodge must be examined and prove himself a Mason, unless duly and properly avouched for; those other matters which cannot be written in any language.
(f) The symbolism of the Operative Art.
(g) Every candidate for Freemasonry must be a man, free born, of lawful age, being under the tongue of good repute, and well recommended, and unless Dispensation is granted by the Grand Master, having no maim or defect of body that may render him incapable of learning the art or of being advanced to the Several Degrees. (1992)

I guess I could go on to more directly discuss clandestine / irregular but since this is what keep s getting brought up....

This proves a woman can’t be a Freemason in the GL of FL. There is no universality (a myth) and “the landmarks” aren’t consistent or used by all GLs. But I understand that this his how you feel and what you believe. Nothing wrong with that, but you can’t try to impose your beliefs on the rest of the world. That’s hubris and shows a level of intolerance.
I’m finished here. We have a difference of opinions and nothing the other says will change that.
POTS

 

[Glen Cook]

I’ve yet to see a discussion of this issue which was not divisive and usually rancorous.

 

[Warrior1256]

you can’t try to impose your beliefs on the rest of the world. That’s hubris and shows a level of intolerance.

So who is trying to impose their beliefs on others? We're just giving our opinions same as you.

I’ve yet to see a discussion of this issue which was not divisive and usually rancorous.

Yep, you're right.

 

[LK600]

This proves a woman can’t be a Freemason in the GL of FL. There is no universality (a myth) and “the landmarks” aren’t consistent or used by all GLs. But I understand that this his how you feel and what you believe. Nothing wrong with that, but you can’t try to impose your beliefs on the rest of the world. That’s hubris and shows a level of intolerance.
I’m finished here. We have a difference of opinions and nothing the other says will change that.
POTS

The only thing I'll add is of course it's intolerant. Every time you put a rule or a stipulation on something making a requirement it is intolerant. And I agree, we could debate this for weeks and neither of us would be satisfied. As I've previously stated... we will have to agree to disagree, because going much further would indeed get... as Mr. Cook suggested, rancorous on both sides I'm sure.

 

[LK600]

So who is trying to impose their beliefs on others? We're just giving our opinions same as you.

Yes, both sides are expressing their beliefs. Neither side (that I know of) has suggested people can't do what they want in reference to this subject. Obviously we all have strong beliefs in Freemasonry... just in different directions.

 

[Bloke]

So who is trying to impose their beliefs on others? We're just giving our opinions same as you.

Agreed. And, none of us a vehemently pushing a barrow, especially to admit woman. I think this conversation is more around how far some of us do and do not extend the word "Freemason" and while acknowledging the UGLE statement, at the end of the day, sitting in tyled lodge with a female is neither permissible nor a wish of any of the current participants in this thread. And of course, learning something new about the Odd Fellows

 

[Warrior1256]

Yes, both sides are expressing their beliefs. Neither side (that I know of) has suggested people can't do what they want in reference to this subject. Obviously we all have strong beliefs in Freemasonry... just in different directions.

Agreed. And, none of us a vehemently pushing a barrow, especially to admit woman. I think this conversation is more around how far some of us do and do not extend the word "Freemason" and while acknowledging the UGLE statement, at the end of the day, sitting in tyled lodge with a female is neither permissible nor a wish of any of the current participants in this thread. And of course

Agreed.

And of course, learning something new about the Odd Fellows

Lol.