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Grand Master of Florida Bans Certain Religions

Brother JC

Moderating Staff
Staff Member
Which Landmark says you judge? The one the GM quoted says, "by whatever denominations or persuasions they may be distinguished." There is no judgement.
If an Odinist says he believes in a Supreme Being, he is probably thinking of Odin, the All-Father, who is Supreme in his faith. And if he is willing to take the same oath I took, who am I, or any Mason, to say it's wrong?
 

jwhoff

Premium Member
How does one get from there (Grand Master's chair) to this?

Some things are better left alone. And ... some people.
 

CajunTinMan

Registered User
I don't really know what is correct. You can read Mackey, Hall, Pike, and others as well and still find that everything is wide open to interpretation. My opinions are just that, opinions.
 
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CajunTinMan

Registered User
[SIZE=+1]This is the part that I am refering to. I am more then open to a better understanding if it can be given. I would be glad to here any comments but please do don’t attack other religions when trying to make a point. There are Christian Brothers on here as well as Jewish, Islamic and Brothers of other faiths. I am trying to base my opinions on Landmarks and the meanings behind them not personal feeling about how I think things should be.

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[SIZE=+1]I. Concerning GOD [SIZE=+1]and R[/SIZE] ELIGION. A Mason is oblig'd by his Tenure, to obey the moral Law; and if he rightly understands the Art, he will never be a stupid Atheist noran irreligious Libertine. But though in ancient Times Masons were charg'd in every Country to be of the Religion of that Country or Nation, whatever it was, yet 'tis now thought more expedient only to oblige them to that Religion in which all Men agree, leaving their particular Opinions to themselves; that is, to be good Men and true, or Men of Honour and Honesty, by whatever Denominations or Persuasions they may be distinguish'd; whereby Masonry becomes the Center of Union, and the Means of conciliating true Friendship among Persons that must have remain'd at a perpetual Distance.

What is the Religion in which all men agree?


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Brother JC

Moderating Staff
Staff Member
What is the Religion in which all men agree?

Continue reading, it says it right there:

"that is, to be good Men and true, or Men of Honour and Honesty, by whatever Denominations or Persuasions they may be distinguish'd; whereby Masonry becomes the Center of Union, and the Means of conciliating true Friendship among Persons that must have remain'd at a perpetual Distance. "

CTM, I never wanted to argue with you, I just want to know who decides if a man's vision of Supreme Being is right or wrong? And what gives them the right to make that decision?
 

BryanMaloney

Premium Member
While Odinism is polytheistic (many gods), that does not mean it requires its adherents to deny that one of them is "Supreme".
 

Casey

Mandalorian
Premium Member
I've replied many times when asked about the "Masonic" religion. "Masonry doesn't save souls, or reform sinners." This blurb is to profess up front that my religion is not Masonry. Masonry affords me the opportunity to band together with men from all walks of life, and various religions in our common goals. When my goals are purely related to my religion I will handle that on Sundays... at church. You know.... where religion belongs. (not that we should only practice our faith inside the church walls, but for this issue it should be looked at in this way.)

I feel once we deviate down this path what is to stop us from eventually someone deciding that Mormons(LDS), Presbyterians, Judaism, Church of Christ, etc. don't belong in our fraternity.

I also think a lot of these types of issues arise when brothers only attend lodge, and do not actively attend church. It's almost as if they feel they are practicing their faith and worship whilst attending lodge. I could be wrong, but that's my two cents.
 

widows son

Premium Member
I think his actions will do more harm, there are those who don't follow religions, but whose philosophy can be found in the banned religions, such as myself. I don't believe in Odin, but he is the Norse supreme being and has the same attributes as God. If one believes in a supreme being, who cares what the name is, besides how can something that created everything in existence have a name? Wouldn't it be beyond a personality? Especially if all our souls/consciousness stem from it?
 

ess1113

Premium Member
For discussion:
GLOT requires
Art 18.4.A Acknowledgement of a belief in God the Father of all men.

Does that preclude any polytheistic religion since God is specifically singular in this statement?
Does that specifically exclude agnosticism since we require a "firm belief in the existence of God"?
 
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dhouseholder

Registered User
For discussion:
GLOT requires
Art 18.4.A Acknowledgement of a belief in God the Father of all men.

Does that preclude any polytheistic religion since God is specifically singular in this statement?
Does that specifically exclude agnosticism since we require a "firm belief in the existence of God"?

Once a brother fills out his petition to the lodge's satisfaction and declares a faith in God, all questions about a brother's faith, ideology, philosophy, paradigm, religion, spiritual system, etc., should stop. That is his own business and certainly none of mine.
 

DWSCHULZ

Premium Member
Once a brother fills out his petition to the lodge's satisfaction and declares a faith in God, all questions about a brother's faith, ideology, philosophy, paradigm, religion, spiritual system, etc., should stop. That is his own business and certainly none of mine.

When I was sitting Chaplin we once had a candidate declare his faith in Jesus Christ where the ritual expects the reply "God". It was fuel for a playful debate after Lodge over cake. Of course, one Past Master took great pleasure in asking "What's the difference?" Our conclusion was that, in our Lodge a declaration of faith in Jesus Christ was the same thing as a declaration of faith in God. The question "What if a faith in the Holy Spirit had been declared?" and "Is Christian three parts of God (Father, Son and Holy Spirit) still considered the practice of monotheism as implied in code?".

It's important to keep in mind that we would NEVER conduct this conversation in open Lodge and especially not during degree work but we encourage spirited debate in the basement.
 

chrmc

Registered User
When I was sitting Chaplin we once had a candidate declare his faith in Jesus Christ where the ritual expects the reply "God". It was fuel for a playful debate after Lodge over cake. Of course, one Past Master took great pleasure in asking "What's the difference?" Our conclusion was that, in our Lodge a declaration of faith in Jesus Christ was the same thing as a declaration of faith in God. The question "What if a faith in the Holy Spirit had been declared?" and "Is Christian three parts of God (Father, Son and Holy Spirit) still considered the practice of monotheism as implied in code?".

It's important to keep in mind that we would NEVER conduct this conversation in open Lodge and especially not during degree work but we encourage spirited debate in the basement.

Personally I have less problems with a brother saying that I believe in Jesus / Allah / Buddhism / Paganism etc. than the other approach of a lodge saying that you MUST believe in a certain religion.
I will agree that a statement in tyled lodge about what a brother believes in can spark controversy and discussion, but as long as a brother believes in something that is good for me. If he also declares his belief in a neutral way, I have little cause to be offended personally.
 

dhouseholder

Registered User
When I was sitting Chaplin we once had a candidate declare his faith in Jesus Christ where the ritual expects the reply "God". It was fuel for a playful debate after Lodge over cake. Of course, one Past Master took great pleasure in asking "What's the difference?" Our conclusion was that, in our Lodge a declaration of faith in Jesus Christ was the same thing as a declaration of faith in God. The question "What if a faith in the Holy Spirit had been declared?" and "Is Christian three parts of God (Father, Son and Holy Spirit) still considered the practice of monotheism as implied in code?".

It's important to keep in mind that we would NEVER conduct this conversation in open Lodge and especially not during degree work but we encourage spirited debate in the basement.

A spirited discussion of religion, I feel, should be encouraged. Debate, however, should be forbidden.
 

ess1113

Premium Member
One of the definitions of debate is: To deliberate on; consider.
I dont think anything is wrong with that. I know we are talking semantics but its important to define the proper terms so we can control the discussion or debate properly.
I dont have a problem with discuss, argie, debate, dispute, or contend.

Synonyms: discuss, argue,
debate
, dispute, contend
These verbs mean to talk with others in an effort to reach agreement, to ascertain truth, or to convince.
Discuss involves close examination of a subject with interchange of opinions: My therapist discussed my concerns with my
parents.

Argue emphasizes the presentation of facts and reasons in support of a position opposed by others: The lawyer argued the plaintiff's case.
Debate involves formal, often public argument: The candidates debated the campaign issues.
Dispute implies differences of opinion and usually sharp argument: The senators disputed over
increases in the proposed budget.

To contend is to strive in debate or controversy: She contended that her theory was easily
proven.
 
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BryanMaloney

Premium Member
For discussion:
GLOT requires
Art 18.4.A Acknowledgement of a belief in God the Father of all men.

Does that preclude any polytheistic religion since God is specifically singular in this statement?

While Odinism, for example, is polytheistic, Odin, specifically, is known as "Odin All-Father". Likewise, Hindus might recognize multiple deities, but they also have a concept of a single "God" from which all things ultimately flow, including the gods. So, it depends.
 
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