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West Gate

Rttbro

Registered User
Brethren, I really want to thank you for all of the responses... The discussion thus far has helped me develop a new understanding of the topics at hand. That said, I would like to elaborate a slight bit in the hopes of further discussion for academic as well as practical purposes...


In my own uneasiness in saying so, I may have understated the extent of one of our petitioners "limitation". I'm not talking about dyslexia, or a mild learning disability, poor memorization skills, or merely "a bit slow". There would be no doubt at all in accepting such an individual based on their desire for light and enthusiasm for knowledge. We have worked with many a brother with such challenges, and have seen them flourish. We have brothers with great willingness and patience put in time and assist with those who need it, and are in fact, more than happy to do so. It gives me great joy to see such a brother light up when they put in the hard work and then conquer their challenge and shine. In fact we have had dyslexic, and "slow" (for lack of a better term) guys go on the be some of the best Masters, their difficulty in memorization does not limit their ability to be good Masons or to lead. In this case we are talking mild to moderately retarded. I'm not sure he will be able to even simply repeat back the o&o given just a few words at a time, let alone review later and absorb any meaning from it. That said, allowing him to try will certainly bring happiness to him. I have love for this fellow, I want to see him succeed and be happy, and it would be great for him not to be left out anymore. THAT said, I have been present for many discussions among Masons over the years in which we talk about the fact that we can make Masons of those with certain disabilities (some physical, some mental) but we don't make Masons when the Mental deficiency will prevent the understanding of the o&o (whether it be madman, fool, or more as in this case). It is this that has me on the fence... Knowing it to be such, what is my duty?


I still am unclear on this one... My heart breaks for this guy... Please continue to discuss, your thoughts are greatly appreciated!
 

admarcus1

Registered User
Rttbor, thank you for asking the question. I think this has been a great discussion.

I guess that in your position, I would voice my concerns privately to the WM. Again, it can be hard for any one of us to judge what is in another man's heart or mind, and how much he does or does not understand. If it is the judgement of the IC and WM that this man should be allowed to try, then I would cast a white ball. Having voiced my concerns, I would feel I had done my duty.
 

japool

Registered User
If he is mild to moderately retarted like you say, do you think that the Initiation would frighten him or put him under any undue stress?


Sent From My Freemasonry Pro App
 
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MasterBulldawg

Registered User
What secrets could he be tricked into revealing that are not readily available? It's far easier to look up the modes of recognition online than try to trick someone. When I was researching Freemasonry when I was thinking about joining, I had to make an effort not to learn those secrets I didn't want to know. I wish some of these sites would put "Spoiler Alert" on their pages.

To paraphrase what has often been told to me, and what I've read elsewhere - we don't keep these things secret because they are true secrets - they are not. Keeping are obligation is not to protect the secrets - they are already out. It is a measure of a man's integrity that he keeps his obligations. If some individual were to go to the trouble of tricking this man into exposing the secrets of the fraternity, well, shame on him for a) being a jerk and b) wasting his time doing something unnecessary.

Actual harm to the Fraternity: Zero

That is my point is the simple minded can not keep the obligations and should not be voted in. But this is MHO.


Sent From My Freemasonry Pro App
 

JJones

Moderator
Knowing it to be such, what is my duty?

Better yet, when you start making exceptions then where do you draw the line? Who knows, we could be accepting anyone that has the money and initiating them in masse here in a few years. /rant

You probably know what is best for your lodge, or at least have an idea. I could tell you what I'd do in your situation but after judging the other replies in this thread I'd probably come across as an ogre. :)
 

jvarnell

Premium Member
Brethren, I really want to thank you for all of the responses... The discussion thus far has helped me develop a new understanding of the topics at hand. That said, I would like to elaborate a slight bit in the hopes of further discussion for academic as well as practical purposes...


In my own uneasiness in saying so, I may have understated the extent of one of our petitioners "limitation". I'm not talking about dyslexia, or a mild learning disability, poor memorization skills, or merely "a bit slow". There would be no doubt at all in accepting such an individual based on their desire for light and enthusiasm for knowledge. We have worked with many a brother with such challenges, and have seen them flourish. We have brothers with great willingness and patience put in time and assist with those who need it, and are in fact, more than happy to do so. It gives me great joy to see such a brother light up when they put in the hard work and then conquer their challenge and shine. In fact we have had dyslexic, and "slow" (for lack of a better term) guys go on the be some of the best Masters, their difficulty in memorization does not limit their ability to be good Masons or to lead. In this case we are talking mild to moderately retarded. I'm not sure he will be able to even simply repeat back the o&o given just a few words at a time, let alone review later and absorb any meaning from it. That said, allowing him to try will certainly bring happiness to him. I have love for this fellow, I want to see him succeed and be happy, and it would be great for him not to be left out anymore. THAT said, I have been present for many discussions among Masons over the years in which we talk about the fact that we can make Masons of those with certain disabilities (some physical, some mental) but we don't make Masons when the Mental deficiency will prevent the understanding of the o&o (whether it be madman, fool, or more as in this case). It is this that has me on the fence... Knowing it to be such, what is my duty?


I still am unclear on this one... My heart breaks for this guy... Please continue to discuss, your thoughts are greatly appreciated!
I say get an english distionary fromas close to the founding of the mother lodge and see how it defines fool. This my be the clue. Words do change meaning over time. An example of that is the word gay in my 1828 dict. And 2005 dict.
 

BroBook

Premium Member
A fool is one that says there is no GOD , not one that cannot understand or explain!!!


Bro Book
 

Warrior1256

Site Benefactor
My logic is that our job as a lodge to take good men and make them better, therefore, if any petitioners come along that are either not (a.) Good men AND (B.) Expressing a desire to become better men then their goals are not in harmony with the goals of the lodge. Joining to join another organization conflicts with that goal IMO.

Anyhow, as far as I know a black ball shouldn't hurt the group. That's just based off what I know here in Texas though.
I agree. I plan on joining the York Rite as soon as I am raised an MM but I also intend to remain active in my home lodge.
 
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