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Visitation Between Prince Hall and Regular Lodges

Glen Cook

G A Cook
Site Benefactor
To quote from the 2006 Commission report

PRINCE HALL CONFERENCE OF GRAND MASTERS

A letter has been received from the Prince Hall Conference of Grand Masters requesting:

  1. That all Prince Hall Grand Lodges be declared regular by the Conference of Grand Masters of North America, and
  2. That the policy of Exclusive Territorial Jurisdiction be clearly defined so that universal Masonry can prevail while keeping the Brotherhood Man through the Fatherhood of God; a viable cause for Freemasonry as a whole.
It has become generally accepted that Prince Hall Freemasonry is regular in form and practice. The Prince Hall Grand Lodges derive their origin from African Lodge No. 459, which received a charter from the United Grand Lodge of England in 1784. There are approximately 40 member Grand Lodges of the Conference of Grand Masters of North America that have established a fraternal relationship with one or more Prince Hall Grand Lodges. Therefore, the question of regularity does not seem to be an issue any longer. A current list and addresses of the member Grand Lodges of the Prince Hall Conference of Grand Masters is being requested, and will be posted on the Commission website as soon as it is received.

The issue of Exclusive Territorial Jurisdiction is one of the standards for recognition that has been strictly observed by this Conference. It is held that only one legitimate Grand Lodge will be recognized in a particular state or country, unless by treaty or mutual consent two Grand Lodges agree to share the same jurisdiction. This is the mechanism by which our Grand Lodges have established a fraternal relationship with Prince Hall Grand Lodges. The terms of such an agreement are usually negotiated and ratified by the two Grand Lodges in question and no change in that process is recommended.

We continue to be of the opinion that establishment of fraternal relationships with Prince Hall Grand Lodges remains the prerogative of each individual Grand Lodge.
 

MRichard

Mark A. Ri'chard
Premium Member
Bro Richard, im lost. If they werent formed the same way, what was the difference in their forming ?

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Please look at the link I posted earlier regarding the UGLE report on Prince Hall Masonry on Bessels. Might also want to read Landmarks of our Fathers.

One thing I noticed is that the start of PHA was considered 1775 or 1778 (can't remember) by PHA but the UGLE report only referenced the charter issued in 1784 to African #459.
 

Companion Joe

Premium Member

In December 1811 (I accidentally said 1812 earlier), the lodges in Tennessee had a convention in Knoxville and decided to ask the Grand Lodge of North Carolina and Tennessee for permission to form the Grand Lodge of Tennessee. A letter/petition was drawn up and submitted to the Grand Lodge at its communication in November 1812. A committee was appointed to look into it. At the annual communication in Raleigh in 1813, the GM authorized it.
(Quotes are direct from the proceedings but shortened in the interest of getting to the point.)
"...the number of Lodges and the interest of the Craft require the establishment of a Grand Lodge in the State." "...we confidently hope that our proceedings will meet the cordial approbation of our Mother Lodge." "We solicit also in the genuine spirit of fraternal affection the friendly assistance and advice ... aid to the organization of our Grand Lodge."
What Tennessee received wasn't technically a "charter" as much as just an official relinquishing of authority of the lodges west of the mountains.
"...they are hereby authorized and empowered ... to constitute a Grand Lodge for the State of Tennessee." "...the Grand Lodge of Tennessee, thus constituted, shall be vested with all the powers and authorities which any other Grand Lodge, known among our Craft, has a right to use and exercise; and they they may make and constitute new Lodges at their discretion within their jurisdiction..."
Then, on Dec. 27, 1813, dignitaries from both states met in Knoxville, had a ceremony, and symbolically laid the cornerstone of the GLoT.
 

Dontrell Stroman

Premium Member
In December 1811 (I accidentally said 1812 earlier), the lodges in Tennessee had a convention in Knoxville and decided to ask the Grand Lodge of North Carolina and Tennessee for permission to form the Grand Lodge of Tennessee. A letter/petition was drawn up and submitted to the Grand Lodge at its communication in November 1812. A committee was appointed to look into it. At the annual communication in Raleigh in 1813, the GM authorized it.
(Quotes are direct from the proceedings but shortened in the interest of getting to the point.)
"...the number of Lodges and the interest of the Craft require the establishment of a Grand Lodge in the State." "...we confidently hope that our proceedings will meet the cordial approbation of our Mother Lodge." "We solicit also in the genuine spirit of fraternal affection the friendly assistance and advice ... aid to the organization of our Grand Lodge."
What Tennessee received wasn't technically a "charter" as much as just an official relinquishing of authority of the lodges west of the mountains.
"...they are hereby authorized and empowered ... to constitute a Grand Lodge for the State of Tennessee." "...the Grand Lodge of Tennessee, thus constituted, shall be vested with all the powers and authorities which any other Grand Lodge, known among our Craft, has a right to use and exercise; and they they may make and constitute new Lodges at their discretion within their jurisdiction..."
Then, on Dec. 27, 1813, dignitaries from both states met in Knoxville, had a ceremony, and symbolically laid the cornerstone of the GLoT.
Is there talk about TN GL recognizing TN PHA ?
 

Companion Joe

Premium Member
Has PH in Tennessee sought recognition? I don't know the answer to that, and I don't know the answer to your question.
I can honestly say that I don't recollect ever participating in a conversation about recognition one way or the other in my local lodge. I have also never been in a lodge conversation about global warming, the Suez Canal, Kim Kardashian, or 10 million other topics.
Sorry, but I simply don't know.
 

Dontrell Stroman

Premium Member
Has PH in Tennessee sought recognition? I don't know the answer to that, and I don't know the answer to your question.
I can honestly say that I don't recollect ever participating in a conversation about recognition one way or the other in my local lodge. I have also never been in a lodge conversation about global warming, the Suez Canal, Kim Kardashian, or 10 million other topics.
Sorry, but I simply don't know.
Would you like to see PHA recongized in TN ?

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Companion Joe

Premium Member
All you ever do is ask open-ended, gotcha questions. Similar to a series of private messages you engaged me with several months ago, it was one after the other with very little to offer in return. You claimed to be from Tennessee but repeatedly declined to say where from. I eschew the political arena and debate simply because that isn't my thing.

I wish everybody would get along and go fishing. I don't have anything else to add to this thread. I apologize for participating in it in the first place. My intent was to add to the historical record because one particular topic I am versed in was broached. I am a historian, not a philosopher; I will therefore exit stage right.
 

Glen Cook

G A Cook
Site Benefactor
In December 1811 (I accidentally said 1812 earlier), the lodges in Tennessee had a convention in Knoxville and decided to ask the Grand Lodge of North Carolina and Tennessee for permission to form the Grand Lodge of Tennessee. A letter/petition was drawn up and submitted to the Grand Lodge at its communication in November 1812. A committee was appointed to look into it. At the annual communication in Raleigh in 1813, the GM authorized it.
(Quotes are direct from the proceedings but shortened in the interest of getting to the point.)
"...the number of Lodges and the interest of the Craft require the establishment of a Grand Lodge in the State." "...we confidently hope that our proceedings will meet the cordial approbation of our Mother Lodge." "We solicit also in the genuine spirit of fraternal affection the friendly assistance and advice ... aid to the organization of our Grand Lodge."
What Tennessee received wasn't technically a "charter" as much as just an official relinquishing of authority of the lodges west of the mountains.
"...they are hereby authorized and empowered ... to constitute a Grand Lodge for the State of Tennessee." "...the Grand Lodge of Tennessee, thus constituted, shall be vested with all the powers and authorities which any other Grand Lodge, known among our Craft, has a right to use and exercise; and they they may make and constitute new Lodges at their discretion within their jurisdiction..."
Then, on Dec. 27, 1813, dignitaries from both states met in Knoxville, had a ceremony, and symbolically laid the cornerstone of the GLoT.
So, back to the question: was GL TN established by a convention?
 

Dontrell Stroman

Premium Member
All you ever do is ask open-ended, gotcha questions. Similar to a series of private messages you engaged me with several months ago, it was one after the other with very little to offer in return. You claimed to be from Tennessee but repeatedly declined to say where from. I eschew the political arena and debate simply because that isn't my thing.

I wish everybody would get along and go fishing. I don't have anything else to add to this thread. I apologize for participating in it in the first place. My intent was to add to the historical record because one particular topic I am versed in was broached. I am a historian, not a philosopher; I will therefore exit stage right.
I have told you where Im from. Its not an open ended question, I asked you a question to see if my assumption about you was accurate. I believe its men like you that call yourself a mason the reason why some southern jurisdiction GLS refuse to recognize PH. You couldnt answer the question if you would oppose or if you consider them to be your brother. Pretty simple to answer. If i were asked that question, my answer would be no I wouldnt oppose it and yes I see most GL masons as my brother. If you oppose so be it, your not at the ballot box were its a secret unless you want your personal beliefs about it to remain a secret, and if so I understand. Thank you for your time.
 
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Dontrell Stroman

Premium Member
Ive come to the conclusion about something as a Freemason. It burdens my heart for issues such as race to be a barrier in our ancient craft. I understand that their will alway be masons that believe only whites should be masons, but i would like to see all PH and GL masons recongize each other. For the ones that want to fellowship awesome, for the ones that want to continue their bigotry to heck with them.

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Bloke

Premium Member
Right, but was the GL formed by convention or by the lodges?

May I ask for some assistance/clarification Bro Glen on the word "convention" ?

Are you (and I assume it's a standard term which needs to be defined for me) using "convention" in the sense a body stylized as GL had been operating for years and then sort recognition by virtue of it having operated, or in the sense that a group of Freemasons meeting under regular warrants had a meeting (a convention) and resolved to form Grand Lodge without requesting a charter for the same, but to seek recognition for that new GL from established Regular Grand Lodge(s) which had issued their lodge warrants and then from other GLs? The later was the case with UGLV which combined lodges with EC, SC & IC warrants and also from "Grand Lodge Victoria" (est 1883 of lodges mainly from the IC) who met and declared themselves United Grand Lodge Victoria (1889) and sort and received recognition from the Grand Lodges of Ireland, Scotland and England soon thereafter. (Grand Lodge Victoria was dissolved into United Grand Lodge Victoria).

To put it another way, are you using "convention" as in by convention (by virtue of operating) or in a convention (through a meeting of Freemasons) ?

In anticipation; thanks !
 
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