My Freemasonry | Freemason Information and Discussion Forum

Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

The big pink elephant in the room...

Status
Not open for further replies.

Bro. Vincent

Registered User
As an aside, I served in one of those units, which still exists today. 9th Cavalry, Headhunters Battalion, under 3rd Brigade (Grey Wolf) of 1st Cavalry Division. It has a lot to do with why the issue matters to me, because I was, in fact, a Buffalo Soldier and am proud to have been so. The vast majority of the men I served with, in a dangerous line of work were men of color, and in a unit with a deep and real history.

That is impressive sir. And I have deep and profound respect for your service to this nation. I am also interested In the information on military lodges. I am not well versed In them. How did they begin?


Freemason Connect Mobile
 

Michael Hatley

Premium Member
I don't know much more than the general bit about the Brits bringing Freemasonry to the States in traveling military lodges back in the 1700s. Personally I didn't join the craft till after I was done with my tour.

There are some Brethren about though that are currently serving in military lodges that hopefully can chime in. I think though that each of them get a dispensation from different places and all have their own unique story.

Personally, when a military friend of mine asks me about Freemasonry I usually urge them to join the Fraternity under the auspices of a Grand Lodge while they are abroad. Reason being that often those Grand Lodges have relations with both main Grand Lodges in each of the states in the US, meaning they have no barrier to fraternal visitation to either. One more way to thread the needle.

I believe that getting together, in person, will do a whole lot. Breaking bread together. Serving in degrees together. Heck, BBQing ribs together. In person, face to face, getting to know each others families. Its why I really want visitation to get fixed up here in Texas.

Another thing - the Shrine has talked about removing the Master Mason's requirement some recently. Really, I hate the idea - but I will say that, in Texas, it might have a side benefit of maybe, just maybe, being a place where GLoTX and PH folks could come together under one roof for well and true. But that is a whole can of worms for a fact with good arguments on both sides.
 

Bro. Vincent

Registered User
I don't know much more than the general bit about the Brits bringing Freemasonry to the States in traveling military lodges back in the 1700s. Personally I didn't join the craft till after I was done with my tour.

There are some Brethren about though that are currently serving in military lodges that hopefully can chime in. I think though that each of them get a dispensation from different places and all have their own unique story.

Personally, when a military friend of mine asks me about Freemasonry I usually urge them to join the Fraternity under the auspices of a Grand Lodge while they are abroad. Reason being that often those Grand Lodges have relations with both main Grand Lodges in each of the states in the US, meaning they have no barrier to fraternal visitation to either. One more way to thread the needle.

I believe that getting together, in person, will do a whole lot. Breaking bread together. Serving in degrees together. Heck, BBQing ribs together. In person, face to face, getting to know each others families. Its why I really want visitation to get fixed up here in Texas.

Another thing - the Shrine has talked about removing the Master Mason's requirement some recently. Really, I hate the idea - but I will say that, in Texas, it might have a side benefit of maybe, just maybe, being a place where GLoTX and PH folks could come together under one roof for well and true. But that is a whole can of worms for a fact with good arguments on both sides.

Interesting stuff. Thank you for the insight brother.


Freemason Connect Mobile
 

dfreybur

Premium Member
Another thing - the Shrine has talked about removing the Master Mason's requirement some recently. Really, I hate the idea - but I will say that, in Texas, it might have a side benefit of maybe, just maybe, being a place where GLoTX and PH folks could come together under one roof for well and true. But that is a whole can of worms for a fact with good arguments on both sides.

Not even the local Shrines attend together? Yikes. I should have thought of that with the rest of the no-visitation discussion but that aspect never occurred to me. Not having members of the two local GLs mixed together at a Shrine meeting? Visitors from PHA are common at meetings in Illinois. Shaking my head at how this lack of visitation keeps rolling over the top of what I consider normal routine.
 

Michael Hatley

Premium Member
Well PH has its own Shrine as I understand it:


http://www.aeaonms.org/


The "Ancient Egyptian Arabic Order Nobles of Mystic Shrine" (A.E.A.O.N.M.S) - which is a different organization than "Shriners International"


http://www.shrinersinternational.org/



Shriners International is "Ancient Arabic Order of the Nobles of the Mystic Shrine" (A.A.O.N.M.S), note no "Egyptian" bit.

Shriners International are the folks who are affiliated with the hospitals and that is their main charitable outlet.

Whereas A.E.A.O.N.M.S list the "NAACP, the Legal Defense Fund, the Urban League, and United Negro College Fund, along with Annual Grants to several institutions of higher learning and hospitals throughout the land, for medical and other research projects" as its charitable recipients.

Two totally different organizations. The A.A.O.N.M.S was formed in 1870, the A.E.A.O.N.M.S in 1893.

So like I say, its a whole can of worms within a can of worms, I guess.

Truth is I'm not sure if a PH Freemason can join the A.A.O.N.M.S or not. It might be an overlooked loophole, to tell the truth.
 

Bro. David F. Hill

David F. Hill
Premium Member
Today I met a man that had been traveling for 50+ years while sitting in Walgreens waiting for my prescription. I found out he was a Mason when he commented on liking my masonic dog-tags. We talked quite a bit until they announed my order was ready and as I got ready to go, the GAOTU touched my heart and led me to take off my tags and give them to him. He protested but I insisted and he proudly put them on. I may never see him again until that lodge meeting in heaven but doing this act between brothers has touched me more than many that I done. I will miss those tags as they opened many conversations with brothers from the GLofTX and not one showed any hint of racism. These older men came from my generation or before and it could be understood if they did harbor those feelings but they met me on the level and departed upon the square. There is hope and I can't wait till we all can truly live up to our obligations and treat each other as brothers without any regard for race.

SMIB
 

Bro. Vincent

Registered User
Today I met a man that had been traveling for 50+ years while sitting in Walgreens waiting for my prescription. I found out he was a Mason when he commented on liking my masonic dog-tags. We talked quite a bit until they announed my order was ready and as I got ready to go, the GAOTU touched my heart and led me to take off my tags and give them to him. He protested but I insisted and he proudly put them on. I may never see him again until that lodge meeting in heaven but doing this act between brothers has touched me more than many that I done. I will miss those tags as they opened many conversations with brothers from the GLofTX and not one showed any hint of racism. These older men came from my generation or before and it could be understood if they did harbor those feelings but they met me on the level and departed upon the square. There is hope and I can't wait till we all can truly live up to our obligations and treat each other as brothers without any regard for race.

SMIB

Thank you so much for sharing that beautiful story. Man when I hear those kind of stories it's lets me know to keep trying... Thank you brother. Again what a beautiful story and a great heart. May the GAOTU bless you...

This is the feed back I love when brothers can get together and fellowship. This thread has taken 50 turns and twist and still comes back to brotherly love... All the different valid thoughts and opinions and brothers of all races chiming in (even NASCAR races lol) has been simply beautiful. I'm sorry bro. Blake but I would love for this thread to reach a 100 hits before we move on... Thank you everyone!


Freemason Connect Mobile
 
Last edited by a moderator:

widows son

Premium Member
I apologize in advance for hijacking your thread, but since we are on the topic of PHA, I was at the lodge last night and happen to read the Tyler's list. For Prince Hall GL's all it had was the PHGL of Connecticut, PHGL of NY(I believe that it was NY) and PH GL of Ontario and jurisdictions. I was under the impression that we recognized all PH GL's in America. I wondering what "Ontario and jurisdictions" mean.
 

bupton52

Moderator
Premium Member
I apologize in advance for hijacking your thread, but since we are on the topic of PHA, I was at the lodge last night and happen to read the Tyler's list. For Prince Hall GL's all it had was the PHGL of Connecticut, PHGL of NY(I believe that it was NY) and PH GL of Ontario and jurisdictions. I was under the impression that we recognized all PH GL's in America. I wondering what "Ontario and jurisdictions" mean.

I assumed that it meant whatever location that lodges are chartered outside of the state geographical boundaries. ie, a military lodge operating overseas chartered by a PHGL in the states, wherever they meet, is operating under the authority of that GL's jurisdiction. That's how I understood it.
 

dfreybur

Premium Member
... but since we are on the topic of PHA, I was at the lodge last night and happen to read the Tyler's list. For Prince Hall GL's all it had was the PHGL of Connecticut, PHGL of NY(I believe that it was NY) and PH GL of Ontario and jurisdictions.

Did you happen to check the year of the book? By the list it would be a book maybe 15-20 years old when PHA recognition was a new thing.
 

dfreybur

Premium Member
This is the feed back I love when brothers can get together and fellowship.

Not sure how many places I've posted either of these.

1) When I petitioned for my degrees I took the paperwork to two old friends. They looked at the form and told me they could not sign because the signatures are for members of that particular lodge and they were members of different lodges. I checked the form carefully and pointed out there were lines for character references. My friends were happy to sign there. Before I'd ever heard of Prince Hall my investigating committee knew exactly where I would stand on the topic of recognition. Both of my character references were 50 year PHA Masons. I am glad to report that recognition happened while I was progressing through the line before I attended my first GL session. I didn't need to vote for recognition because it was a done deal by the time I attended my first GL session in 1997.

2) One evening after a first degree I was walking to refreshment with a couple of elderly brothers. One said - "If my father knew what we just did he would turn over in his grave." I asked - "What do you mean?" He answered - "I'm glad you are too young to understand." It took until the next morning for me to put the pieces together. Our new EA brother was black. My elderly brother had grown up in a world where racists were not automatically marginalized on detection and he'd grown out of it. He was glad I'd grown up in a world where that was not a part of it.
 

widows son

Premium Member
"Did you happen to check the year of the book? By the list it would be a book maybe 15-20 years old when PHA recognition was a new thing."

It was from July 2012

I'm wondering if it has something to do with the fact that there are already numerous men from different ethnicities already members of
what would be deemed "mainstream" masonry here in Ontario.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

dfreybur

Premium Member
If anyone wants to discuss color - We're a blue family. My Honorable Discharge is from the Navy (dark blue?). My older daughter's Honorable Discharge is from the Air Force (light blue?). My son-in-law is current active duty USAF. My younger daughter's Honorable Discharge is from the Navy as is her (they aren't married so he isn't my son-in-law. I guess he's my son-out-law). Yep, blue all the way.
 

Bro. Vincent

Registered User
If anyone wants to discuss color - We're a blue family. My Honorable Discharge is from the Navy (dark blue?). My older daughter's Honorable Discharge is from the Air Force (light blue?). My son-in-law is current active duty USAF. My younger daughter's Honorable Discharge is from the Navy as is her (they aren't married so he isn't my son-in-law. I guess he's my son-out-law). Yep, blue all the way.

Dude you are hilarious! But I like that.... We are a blue family! I think I might borrow that one.


Freemason Connect Mobile
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top