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Secession

Akiles

Registered User
Would it be a Masonic Offense to support the Texas Independence movement- or secession?

Let's not get into a discussion of the sanity of it, just would it be an offense. After all, our most famous Mason whose image is in all Texas Lodges, fought a war because he wanted to secede from Britain.

To me, it is clearly not a Masonic offense.... If you feel you country is Texas, you are supporting your country....

I'm from Spain. And I was initiated in Mexico, and now I live in Panama....Did you know that the first lodge in Panama was constituted with the permission of the Great Lodge of Spain???, And most of the principal masons of that lodge were presidents of Panama a time after that???, Same with Mexico and other Latin American countries..... So, at the time of the independence, they were Spanish, but at same time Mexican, Panamanian, etc.... And they felt Mexico as their country, not Spain (most of them were born in America but their parents were born in Spain... And for example, Simon Bolivar was a military of the Spanish army before he rise against Spain, and he was studying and learning in Spain....).

And even you, in USA, have the same thing.... There are a lot of mason who signed the independence chart.... From the UK, so, really they were Britains the moment before....

Sorry for my English.
 

hanzosbm

Premium Member
As some other brothers have stated, I think it all comes down to whether it is done within the bounds of the law.

I find that many people try to justify their breaking of an obligation. Even if the United States turned into Nazi Germany, your obligation still holds you to the laws of that country, regardless of how wrong they are. Now, whether you choose to then break that obligation is up to you. And, of course, one could argue that there are other parts of the ritual stating that it will not interfere with any duties to...various groups and/or entities, and it is possible that these can come into conflict. That's where it gets grey.
Here's an example:
You are subpoenaed for a trial against a brother Mason. The crime is something less than murder. He confessed to you in secrecy. The law says that you must testify against him. You have sworn to keep his secrets as well as conform to the law, yet in this case, you can't possibly do both. This is definitely a grey area.

In my mind, the founding fathers who were Masons did in fact break their obligations (assuming that was part of the obligation at the time, I haven't researched it). Taxation without representation sucks, but I'd have a hard time believing that allowing it to continue somehow breaks some kind of other obligation.
 

Glen Cook

G A Cook
Site Benefactor
As some other brothers have stated, I think it all comes down to whether it is done within the bounds of the law.

I find that many people try to justify their breaking of an obligation. Even if the United States turned into Nazi Germany, your obligation still holds you to the laws of that country, regardless of how wrong they are. Now, whether you choose to then break that obligation is up to you. And, of course, one could argue that there are other parts of the ritual stating that it will not interfere with any duties to...various groups and/or entities, and it is possible that these can come into conflict. That's where it gets grey.
Here's an example:
You are subpoenaed for a trial against a brother Mason. The crime is something less than murder. He confessed to you in secrecy. The law says that you must testify against him. You have sworn to keep his secrets as well as conform to the law, yet in this case, you can't possibly do both. This is definitely a grey area.

In my mind, the founding fathers who were Masons did in fact break their obligations (assuming that was part of the obligation at the time, I haven't researched it). Taxation without representation sucks, but I'd have a hard time believing that allowing it to continue somehow breaks some kind of other obligation.
Umm. What part of my ob. holds me to the laws of my country?

Not all GLs use an ob that keeps crimes a secret.
 

hanzosbm

Premium Member
Umm. What part of my ob. holds me to the laws of my country?

Not all GLs use an ob that keeps crimes a secret.

Fair enough. As I am obviously not familiar with the MM obligation in every jurisdiction, I will recant my previous statements. That being said, mine most certainly does both.
 

Canadian Paul

Registered User
My Obligation requires me to keep a brother's lawful secrets. I am also obliged to pay due obedience to the magistrates of my native country and those of any country that gives me protection.

I don't think there is an easy answer to the question originally asked at the beginning of this thread.
 

Warrior1256

Site Benefactor
My Obligation requires me to keep a brother's lawful secrets. I am also obliged to pay due obedience to the magistrates of my native country and those of any country that gives me protection.

I don't think there is an easy answer to the question originally asked at the beginning of this thread.
Very true.
 
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