Prince Hall and Mainstream Freemasonry

[bupton52]

I'm really not sure how your statement has as anything to do with the question that was posed and the answer I gave. Exactly how are "we" to blame for the racial sentiments that would have deprived us from practicing Freemasonry? This particular topic has nothing to do with any of us being bigots. That's a different topic all together. This topic pertains to the reason Prince Freemasonry was and is still needed. The individual somewhat made a case against PH and I simply made a case for it. So Im a little confused as about your post.


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The very fact that we still NEED PH Masonry is a indicator that we have a long way to go. I mentioned bigotry because it is a major player in the reason that PH masonry is needed in 2013. If we can get rid of the bigots, we just might be the universal brotherhood that our institution used to talk about.

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[Bill Lins]

If we can get rid of the bigots, we just might be the universal brotherhood that our institution used to talk about.

So mote it be!

 

[tldubb]

You can't blame Prince Hall Masonry for the division between "mainstream" and Prince Hall. History is history if the tenets of masonry were followed more than 200 years ago it would be a different story. But unfortunately that was not the case. So, we move on Prince Hall has been recognized from the inception and verified from the UGLE. The fact that the States that were under reconstruction act post civil war are the same one's holding out recognition of PHA is of no surprise. I commend the GLOFTX, for there forward thinking and fact they truly live by spirit of the Craft!


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[bupton52]

You can't blame Prince Hall Masonry for the division between "mainstream" and Prince Hall. History is history if the tenets of masonry were followed more than 200 years ago it would be a different story. But unfortunately that was not the case. So, we move on Prince Hall has been recognized from the inception and verified from the UGLE. The fact that the States that were under reconstruction act post civil war are the same one's holding out recognition of PHA is of no surprise. I commend the GLOFTX, for there forward thinking and fact they truly live by spirit of the Craft!


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You'd be surprised brother. We all play a part.

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[Shahkem]

The very fact that we still NEED PH Masonry is a indicator that we have a long way to go. I mentioned bigotry because it is a major player in the reason that PH masonry is needed in 2013. If we can get rid of the bigots, we just might be the universal brotherhood that our institution used to talk about.

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Brother. Pardon me if I'm misunderstanding you, but if you would, go back to the question that started this thread. An individual was challenging the "Prince Hall part" of Freemasonry by inculcating that Prince Hall disrupts the intent of our Fraternity as it pertains to uniformity. I simply gave him the reason that Prince Hall existed. Prince Hall Masonry doesn't exist because we have bigots in PH Lodges. The fact that there are bigots in PH is accurate, but totally irrelevant to this thread. Like I said to u previously, that's a different topic.

U stated that "the very fact that we still need PH masonry is an indicator that we have a long way to go." Exactly my point! But all though PH has long way to go, PH doesnt have long way to go as it pertains to this thread because PH masonry was birthed out of the bowels of a racist environment. And if it wasn't for PH declaring itself a GL, we as African American would have been denied the privileges of this Fraternity due to the fact that we were African American, not bigots!

Im not saying that all PH masons are perfect ashlars. It seems to me that you're so desperate to defend the very corrupt institution that created this problem that you're unwilling to see the substance if this thread.

If I had 5 sons, but I didn't like the appearance if one of them because his complexion was to dark so I excluded him from our family activities. I even denied him housing. Well be grows up and decides to build his own house, only natural. Over time his house starts to look just as nice as mine and all of a sudden one of his brothers ask him this dumb question, " y do u have to have your own house? We are in the same family and we already have a family house, so y are u trying to compete with our house?" This is the best way I can sum this up for u. Just go back to the original question that replied to and keep the analogy in mind that I just gave u. Brother it's not Prince Hall's fault that PH exists, it's PH right!


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[Blake Bowden]

Why does PH Masonry exist? Because of bigotry and racism -- plain and simple. In a perfect world, ALL Masons would follow the tenants of the Craft where we could all meet upon the level as equals.

I respect your viewpoint, but if you knew what we've tried to accomplish here in Texas, you may give us a little more credit. I've had close friends put their dues card on the line hoping the MWPHGLofTX would back them to extend visitation. Guess where that got them? Nowhere other than being shunned, masonic charges being filed and harassment by our own Grand Lodge (MWGLofTX).

I can't even get my own Grand Lodge, much less the Prince Hall Grand Lodge to respond to an email. It's all about politics. My Grand Lodge is content keeping the Prince Hall Grand Lodge at a distance and the Prince Hall Grand Lodge is fine with a business as usual mentality. I'm just waiting for a Grand Master from either side to initiate something that would fundamentally change Freemasonry.

 

[Shahkem]

Why does PH Masonry exist? Because of bigotry and racism -- plain and simple. In a perfect world, ALL Masons would follow the tenants of the Craft where we could all meet upon the level as equals.

I respect your viewpoint, but if you knew what we've tried to accomplish here in Texas, you may give us a little more credit. I've had close friends put their dues card on the line hoping the MWPHGLofTX would back them to extend visitation. Guess where that got them? Nowhere other than being shunned, masonic charges being filed and harassment by our own Grand Lodge (MWGLofTX).

I can't even get my own Grand Lodge, much less the Prince Hall Grand Lodge to respond to an email. It's all about politics. My Grand Lodge is content keeping the Prince Hall Grand Lodge at a distance and the Prince Hall Grand Lodge is fine with a business as usual mentality. I'm just waiting for a Grand Master from either side to initiate something that would fundamentally change Freemasonry.

Hey Blake, the first sentence in your post really sums up what I've been saying. The question posed by the individual suggested that PH existence is unnecessary. I just wanted him to understand y PH existed in the first place, and u just said it- bigotry and racism. And the the initial charge lies at the feet of so called mainstream Masonry.

Now when you start getting into what you all have been fighting for in Texas and other places, it's a different topic. It's a topic that's needed. But it wasn't pertinent to the answer I gave the individual as to reason of PH existence. But now that I see that the topic is evolving, which is fine with me by the way, I deeply appreciate what you all are doing in Texas. I'm very aware of the fact that not all white masons are stiffed neck and confined to bad cultural habits. Im also aware of the fact that there are PH masons so bitter about the past that they're unwilling to make progress.

I live in South Carolina where the GL of Sc and the PH GL of Sc still don't recognize each other. And being that Im a consultant for Verizon Wireless, I meet fellow masons on a daily basis. And I have meet some of my white brethren who made it crystal clear to me about their disgust of our current situation. And they have been emailing their GL and they ask me to keep emailing mine. So im fully aware that progress, however slow as it me be, is being made. I was aware of the that when I posted my first statement in this thread, but where we're at now just wasn't pertinent to my initial post.


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[tldubb]

I agree with Bro. Blake it is a good thing what Texas is doing. Bro. Upton I can only speak for my jurisdiction. The word "we" is to loose and cannot speak for all of Prince Hall.

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[marty15chris]

I by no means condone the actions by some of the brothers in the so called "mainstream" lodges but I believe the one main sticking point that some claim is that "PHA lodges where never permitted by their original charter to create new lodges" still holds back the PHA fraternity. Not saying I agree with it in this time of age but that may be one reason. Feel free to correct me if I am wrong in this thought.


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[tldubb]

I by no means condone the actions by some of the brothers in the so called "mainstream" lodges but I believe the one main sticking point that some claim is that "PHA lodges where never permitted by their original charter to create new lodges" still holds back the PHA fraternity. Not saying I agree with it in this time of age but that may be one reason. Feel free to correct me if I am wrong in this thought.


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That has already been settle by the mother lodge UGLE. So, what is the excuse now? The fact that there are numerous GL'S that don't have there original charter or were created under far dubious circumstances. Yet people like yourself use the same lame argument. So answer me this what other authority besides UGLE, has the right to question PHA lineage? Yes, in my opinion your wrong. Do your due diligence.

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[bupton52]

I by no means condone the actions by some of the brothers in the so called "mainstream" lodges but I believe the one main sticking point that some claim is that "PHA lodges where never permitted by their original charter to create new lodges" still holds back the PHA fraternity. Not saying I agree with it in this time of age but that may be one reason. Feel free to correct me if I am wrong in this thought.


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Yet no one questions the thousands of organizations that start up just because people assume the right to call themselves freemasons. At what point do we trust the research that has been checked and rechecked for hundreds of years?

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[BryanMaloney]

As a white man in PH I get more slack from white members in other lodges, it makes me more proud to be a part of PH than in a prominently white lodge, the way they give me a hard time, I stand up for my brothers and ask them to visit our lodge. They have yet to come. White lodges seem to still have some kind of grudge against PH, like we aren't the real thing. I refuse to believe that and will proudly stay were I'm at. Until the bi
laws bring us together and everyone accepts it. We will need PH. That day may never come. Stay strong and in due bounds my brothers.

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I think you mean "flack". To "get slack" is to get ease or consideration instead of being held to a "tight" standard.

 

[BryanMaloney]

That has already been settle by the mother lodge UGLE. So, what is the excuse now? The fact that there are numerous GL'S that don't have there original charter or were created under far dubious circumstances. Yet people like yourself use the same lame argument. So answer me this what other authority besides UGLE, has the right to question PHA lineage? Yes, in my opinion your wrong. Do your due diligence.

All of the colonial Grand Lodges were eliminated except for Loyalist/Tory lodges, and these all then dissolved or moved to Canada. Therefore, none of the state Grand Lodges of the USA were regular. None of them possessed legitimate charges, due to actions by UGLE during the Revolution. Does this mean that all state Grand Lodges are currently irregular?

 

[BryanMaloney]

Yet no one questions the thousands of organizations that start up just because people assume the right to call themselves freemasons.

On my "side" of things, they are not questioned because the presumption is that they are thoroughly bogus, without needing to investigate.

 

[bupton52]

On my "side" of things, they are not questioned because the presumption is that they are thoroughly bogus, without needing to investigate.

Exactly!! I was speaking in terms of the members of those organizations trying to find that "gotcha" with the legitimate organizations instead of focusing on their own.

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[Brother JC]

All of the colonial Grand Lodges were eliminated except for Loyalist/Tory lodges, and these all then dissolved or moved to Canada. Therefore, none of the state Grand Lodges of the USA were regular. None of them possessed legitimate charges, due to actions by UGLE during the Revolution.

UGLE didn't exist during the Revolution, and at the time a large number of Lodges had Scottish Warrants.
Nearly every "colony" proudly touts their pre-revolution lineage, so I'm not sure how you can say they were all dissolved.

 

[tldubb]

I'm a Prince Hall Mason, so I must leave this forum. I find most to be...well I must subdue my passions. I'm satisfied with being s PHA Mason. GB!

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[marty15chris]

I'm a Prince Hall Mason, so I must leave this forum. I find most to be...well I must subdue my passions. I'm satisfied with being s PHA Mason. GB!

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Brother I have to say I'm sorry to see you leave the forum. Good luck in all your future travels. If you happen to find yourself here again I hope it will be more rewarding for you.


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[Blake Bowden]

I'm a Prince Hall Mason, so I must leave this forum. I find most to be...well I must subdue my passions. I'm satisfied with being s PHA Mason. GB!

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Why? You are aware that Prince Hall Masons are welcome here -- in matter of fact we have PHA members on our Staff. If you see a post that you feel shows PHA Masonry unfavorably, hit the "!" button at the bottom and we'll review it. That being said, thread closed.