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Pledge of Allegiance

Lucky7812

Registered User
[h=5]"I have a question regarding observation of the Pledge of Allegiance.

Does anyone find it ironic that the Pledge is recited by rote in most lodges, but a discussion of it in that same lodge would likely be prohibited because the topics involved are so politically and religiously fraught?"
[/h][/QUOTE]

I would find it best not to discuss it in open lodge, then it gets left alone. The more people talk about a subject the easier it becomes to edit the content. That's my opinion.
 

BryanMaloney

Premium Member
Why would an allegedly free Republic of free Men need a loyalty oath, anyway? As for the "religious" issue--the GI Generation grew up without the words "under God". Does that mean they didn't deserve to win WWII and build the USA up during the 1950s?

More about the history and underlying truth behind this "pledge of allegiance" from the noted conservative group the Cato Institute: http://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/whats-conservative-about-pledge-allegiance

"What’s so conservative about the Pledge? Very little, as it turns out. From its inception, in 1892, the Pledge has been a slavish ritual of devotion to the state, wholly inappropriate for a free people. It was written by Francis Bellamy, a Christian Socialist pushed out of his post as a Baptist minister for delivering pulpit-pounding sermons on such topics as “Jesus the Socialist.†Bellamy was devoted to the ideas of his more-famous cousin Edward Bellamy, author of the 1888 utopian novel Looking Backward. Looking Backward describes the future United States as a regimented worker’s paradise where everyone has equal incomes, and men are drafted into the country’s “industrial army†at the age of 21, serving in the jobs assigned them by the state. Bellamy’s novel was extremely popular, selling more copies than other any 19th century American novel except Uncle Tom’s Cabin. Bellamy’s book inspired a movement of “Nationalist Clubs,†whose members campaigned for a government takeover of the economy. A few years before he wrote the Pledge of Allegiance, Francis Bellamy became a founding member of Boston’s first Nationalist Club."
 
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Traveling Man

Premium Member
Bellamy's goal was to sell flags...

In 1891, Daniel Sharp Ford, the owner of the Youth's Companion, hired Bellamy to work with Ford's nephew James B. Upham in the magazine's premium department. In 1888, the Youth's Companion had begun a campaign to sell American flags to public schools as a premium to solicit subscriptions. For Upham and Bellamy, the flag promotion was more than merely a business move; under their influence, the Youth's Companion became a fervent supporter of the schoolhouse flag movement, which aimed to place a flag above every school in the nation. By 1892, the magazine had sold American flags to approximately 26,000 schools. By this time the market was slowing for flags, but was not yet saturated...

In 1892, Upham had the idea of using the 400th anniversary of Christopher Columbus reaching the Americas to further bolster the schoolhouse flag movement. The magazine called for a national Columbian Public School Celebration to coincide with the World's Columbian Exposition. A flag salute was to be part of the official program for the Columbus Day celebration to be held in schools all over America. And so it started.
 

LittleHunter

Registered User
In my jurisdiction we recite the Pledge before the Lodge is opened and tyled. Never IN a tyled Lodge. Personally, I believe it is appropriate. Masonry holds a special place in the founding of our Republic. Reciting the Pledge has become a part of our tradition as Americans. I may not agree with everything my government does but I am still proud of my country and countrymen. Are we here to better our country because we love it or are we ere to destroy it because we might be angry at a particular politician or party? The Pledge urges us to take the former approach. It promotes solidarity. If someone hates the Pledge the I would wider if they hate America and if a man hates America I might not want to vote him into my Lodge... Such a man has some maturing to do, he might not bw ready for the responsibilities a Mason must shoulder. We don't discuss politics in Tyled Lodge because politics are divisive... That doesn't mean we can't be patriotic.


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BryanMaloney

Premium Member
I take that to mean you believe reciting the Pledge prior to opening lodge is appropriate, but not in a tyled lodge?

Further, that having any objection to its rote recitation is unpatriotic? Or indicates that the objector is somehow angry at a particular politician or party? Or by extension, hates America? Does it promote solidarity or homogeneity?

I'm in complete agreement that Masonry held a special place in the founding of our Republic - perhaps nowhere as significantly a place as in the separation of Church and State, followed closely by what was at the time an unheard of right of citizens - freedom of speech.

And for at least a century after the foundation of the USA, there was no such "pledge". How did Freemasonry, or America, ever survive? :blink:
 

LittleHunter

Registered User
I don't really have strong feelings about it. If the Grand Lodge of FL wants to get rid of the flag ceremony I'm not going to quit over it but I'm not going to support an effort to abolish it either. What would that accomplish? If ya'll want to kill the flag ceremony have at it... I'll sit back and watch what happens


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BryanMaloney

Premium Member
If our Canadian brother attended lodge here, we obviously wouldn't expect him to recite the Pledge of Allegiance. Nor would we expect a Brother who believed his religious beliefs were being compromised to do so.


Agreed, but there won't be such slack cut for "Honor the Texas flag"--that national stuff is okay, but Texas is IMPORTANT
:w00t:.


If I felt strongly that the Pledge had no place in lodge and exercised my Constitutional right of free speech and refrained from reciting it, would I be separating myself from the fold and be viewed as unpatriotic or irreligious? I contend that for some, perhaps many, that would be the reaction - unpatriotic in particular.

Because public piety means everything--the public face is all that matters to some people, unfortunately... (Matt 6:1-6)
 

Tx4ever

Registered User
When the "Shrine" became international they changed the pledge said at each meeting to reflect this new international shrine, I still recite the pledge I learned in elementary school . I also was never in the military so I remove my Fez and place my hand over my heart. I get told all the time , You can leave your fez on etc etc, NOT ME. I take the pledge to the US flag as an honor, and if it offends so be it. If I happen to be in your country I will stand quietly while you pledge to your flag .
 

Lucky7812

Registered User
MS By-laws require the Pledge of Allegiance after the opening of the lodge. It is proper curtsy and standard practice that the Master remove his hat before asking the brethren to join him in giving the Pledge of Allegiance, so if a brother choses not to participate they are welcome to do so.

§19-15.1 ORDER OF BUSINESS
The Order of Business for Stated Communications of Subordinate Lodges shall be as follows:
1. Opening of the Lodge
2. Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag
 

BryanMaloney

Premium Member
When the "Shrine" became international they changed the pledge said at each meeting to reflect this new international shrine, I still recite the pledge I learned in elementary school . I also was never in the military so I remove my Fez and place my hand over my heart. I get told all the time , You can leave your fez on etc etc, NOT ME. I take the pledge to the US flag as an honor, and if it offends so be it. If I happen to be in your country I will stand quietly while you pledge to your flag .

Of course, removing the hat and hand/hat over heart is not the original delivery. The "pledge" was originally meant to begin with a military-style salute (even if done by schoolchildren). When the words "I pledge allegiance" were said, the salute was to change to a straight-arm-out salute toward the flag. It strongly resembled a salute used by a certain Austrian wannabe-architect's party: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bellamy_salute

Thus, it got changed.
 

crono782

Premium Member
I wonder how many strange looks I would get if I did a Bellamy salute these days. Of course some guys in most lodges probably remember it!


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Traveling Man

Premium Member
When the "Shrine" became international they changed the pledge said at each meeting to reflect this new international shrine, I still recite the pledge I learned in elementary school . I also was never in the military so I remove my Fez and place my hand over my heart. I get told all the time , You can leave your fez on etc etc, NOT ME. I take the pledge to the US flag as an honor, and if it offends so be it. If I happen to be in your country I will stand quietly while you pledge to your flag .

To me all this is a tempest in a tea pot. In other countries they have their pledges and I have respectfully acknowledged theirs as I would my own, this too was done in tyled lodges...

The United States Congress opens each session with the pledge of allegiance and a prayer...
 
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Traveling Man

Premium Member
Nor would we expect a Brother who believed his religious beliefs were being compromised to do so. Is that a subtle form of exclusion? If I felt strongly that the Pledge had no place in lodge and exercised my Constitutional right of free speech and refrained from reciting it, would I be separating myself from the fold and be viewed as unpatriotic or irreligious? I contend that for some, perhaps many, that would be the reaction - unpatriotic in particular.

If one were so inclined why would he be bothered by what others think? Nice mix by the way your statement, "unpatriotic or irreligious" that being in and of itself divisive.
In fact it is my understanding that the very few religious groups that take umbrage with "the flag" wouldn't kneel at an altar before a man.
 
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