Grand Lodge of the United States

[Rick Carver]

Exactly right. A GL of the USA would turn us into even more of a republic organization where we elect representatives that as SUPPOSED to handle things in our best interests. There is some sort of national organization for the Grand Master and Past Grand Masters. I am sure this helps spread the word and keep us fairly well aligned between jurisdictions, although there is no requirement that any particular GM be a member.

 

[Warrior1256]

I'm a new MM and not sure that I am even qualified to have an opinion but all things considered I am most certainly NOT in favor of more bureaucracy.

 

[Glen Cook]

There is some sort of national organization for the Grand Master and Past Grand Masters. I am sure this helps spread the word and keep us fairly well aligned between jurisdictions, although there is no requirement that any particular GM be a member.

The Conference of Grand Masters in North America (CGMNA, see my precious posts in this thread) is for sitting GM's, though PGM's will participate on committees. Except for the Commission on Information for Recognition whose opinions carry some weight, it is a conference for idea sharing, much like our regional conferences. It does not otherwise have the power to act to keep the sovereign grand lodges "aligned" in my view.

 

[Rifleman1776]

Obviously the first question would be "why" and I'm not sure there really are enough pros to back this idea.

The first pros in my mind are governing laws over PHA and Washington (for lack of a better word). Another would be, in theory, ease of travel and it would also put a face to our lodges.

Again, not sure I could ever justify the "why" but...

Sent From My Freemasonry Pro App

This is obviously a very hot topic. It has been discussed in other threads regarding the situation in Arkansas. Essentially, several years ago the Arkansas GM incorrectly condemned an MM and Shriner for allegedly wrong behavior. The GM expelled the Brother and declared Shrine "clandestine". The expelled Brother was cleared of any wrongdoing. And the bonds between the Grand Lodge were, perhaps forever, broken. No where in Masonic law does a GM have authority to declare an entity clandestine, but he did it and further he expelled many MMs for merely being Shriners. Under his fantasy belief that he can "do anything he wants" I suppose he could do the same to the Lions Club or Baptist Church. Sadly, his successors have supported what he did and Arkansas has lost many members to other states, including me. Arkansas is the only (maybe one more, not sure) state that allows Shrine membership without being a MM. I'm sure a national oversight authority would have told the Arkansas GM he doesn't have that kind of 'hang them all at will' authority. I favor it. I had to demit out of my own Arkansas Lodge where I was raised simply because I am also a Shriner. And some Arkansas Lodges will not allow an MM who is also a Shriner to even attend. This is not Masonic and is heartbreaking sad. Arkansas GL has lost so many members it is now in financial trouble and the possibility of it folding up completely looks close at hand.

 

[Glen Cook]

...No where in Masonic law does a GM have authority to declare an entity clandestine ....

Perhaps not in Arkansas, but he does in other jurisdictions.

 

[dfreybur]

Perhaps not in Arkansas, but he does in other jurisdictions.

I've seen GMs declare groups applying for concordant body status not regular, but that only applies until the GL annual communication. It has to be approved or rejected by vote of the delegates.

If the delegates assembled at GL approved the (now Past) GM's edict, then I say it's the entire jurisdiction that has jumped the shark. Allowing themselves to get embroiled in a whizzing match with Shrine Imperial. The only way for either side to win such a game is to not start playing in the first place.

In my jurisdictions if a GM's decision is not ratified at GL it ends with his term. Later GM's can duplicate the decision if they wish but the cycle repeats every year.

 

[dfreybur]

Under his fantasy belief that he can "do anything he wants" I suppose he could do the same to the Lions Club or Baptist Church.

Power and authority are NOT the same thing. Power is what you can get away with. Authority is what the rules say you can do. Sometimes authority grows when a leader exceeds his authority, gets away with it, and the action gets ratified by vote. It's a long term danger that happens again and again across history.

 

[Rifleman1776]

Perhaps not in Arkansas, but he does in other jurisdictions.

Bro. Glen, in other threads the consensus was that the GM had no authority (or power) over non-affiliated entities. e.g. Lions Club, Baptist Church, etc. I have not read the entire Arkansas and those who have are unclear as to whether the GM has that authority. Personal loyalty by the GL line is what gives him the "power". The Shriners in Arkansas were affiliated only in "amity" and that word was/is the source of non-ending debate as to what it means. To me, it means Brothers acting like Brothers. The GL officers and succeeding GMs seem to have supported the actions by simply doing nothing. He had no authority to declare Shrine clandestine. Under Arkansas law there is a process for expelling MMs but the process was not followed. He simply had spies attending Shrine events and reporting back, often by cell phone. MMs who were Shriners were expelled summarily. I was sitting next to a Shriner/Brother at a Shrine event when he got a text on his cell phone expelling him two weeks before he was to receive his 50 year pin from his Lodge. "authority/power"? I don't know but I am of the opinion that is not Masonic behavior.

 

[Glen Cook]

And I heard the appeal of the ARK matter at Imperial and signed the report. Not the point. I was correcting the implication that the your GMs authority applies across jurisdictions. It is always wrong to say always <G>.

 

[Rifleman1776]

Sorry you read it that way. If any implication it the GM believes he has the power to make delcarations and, thus far, has not been challenged or reversed.

 

[Glen Cook]

Sorry you read it that way. If any implication it the GM believes he has the power to make delcarations and, thus far, has not been challenged or reversed.

I will accept that is the case, but it is not correct throughout Masonry. It is always dangerous to to imply the same rule throughout Masonry.

 

[Rifleman1776]

I was with some Mason/Shriners over the weekend from two states. Heard numbers about how many MMs have been lost in Arkansas. It is staggering and very sad. And pretty well conceded that a clique from the Little Rock area control the GL line and probably will for many years to come. It comes down to a matter of personal agrandizement of those in line whose only objective is to one day become GM. Nothing else matters. Has a state GL ever folded? Arksansas is on the precipice of perhaps being the first. Did I say "sad"? Personally, I am broken hearted that I had to leave my hometown Lodge where I was raised and go out of state. Upside is, I like my new lodge and the people in it. Very dedicated Masons.

 

[Brother JC]

Sad indeed, Brother.

 

[dfreybur]

Has a state GL ever folded?

In the 1840s during the height of the AntiMasonic movement in the US multiple state GLs folded. Of my jurisdictions Illinois is on its second GL as the first folded during that era.

As sad as it is it might be necessary. The legend of the Phoenix. The legend of the third degree. The legend of the Chicago fire, the San Francisco earthquake, the fall of Rome and the rise of the Renaissance.

 

[Rifleman1776]

Thanks. Interesting history. In this day and age, how would a new GL be (re)constituted? With no central American National Grand Lodge authority, who would oversee formation of a new state GL?

 

[dfreybur]

Thanks. Interesting history. In this day and age, how would a new GL be (re)constituted? With no central American National Grand Lodge authority, who would oversee formation of a new state GL?

To form a new GL there has to be a state or territory with no current GL. At that point other jurisdictions are allowed to charter lodges there. Once there were enough lodges they can decide to band together and form their own GL.

This recently happened in Hawaii. MWPHGLofHI and MWPHGLofCA used to be the MWPHGLofCA+HI. GLogHI and GLofCA used to GLofCA+HI a few decades before that. This is the simple case of only one sponsoring parent GL.

This recently happened in Alaska. Lodges from GLofCA, GLofWA at least used to function in Alaska. Maybe lodges from other jurisdictions. At some point they decided to band together and form their own GL. California and Washington immediately issued edicts of recognition that were later voted into formal recognition. The rest of the world followed suit recognizing.

Similar has happened in most other states. When the lodges in Illinois got together to form the second GL charters from more than one state were surrendered.

The current GL has to fail first for this to happen. I take it few wish for that to happen.

Or ... Jurisdictions all over the place could decide that GLofAR has "jumped the shark" so badly they start pulling recognition. If enough do that then "there is no GL in AR" and steps can proceed from there. In the unlikely case this happens it gets better. The MWPHGLofAR exists, is regular, and is thriving. They would be THE GL in the state. Not a bad outcome I figure.

 

[Morris]

Thanks. Interesting history. In this day and age, how would a new GL be (re)constituted? With no central American National Grand Lodge authority, who would oversee formation of a new state GL?

I can't see how they would fold. Not willingly I suppose and I'm not sure if there is a way to force a closing

 

[Rifleman1776]

I can't see how they would fold. Not willingly I suppose and I'm not sure if there is a way to force a closing

Closing is theoretical , of course. But what happens if they run out of money? The GL could not pay rent, utilities or the full time Secretary. It could not stage the annual meeting of the GL, etc. Reports are the money situation is getting very serious.

 

[Glen Cook]

Many GLs do not have a FT Grand Secretary. Communications can be done quite inexpensively. Some GLs charge an attendance or registration fee. It doesn't cost that much to hold a meeting. If the GL owns a hall, it can be done for the cost of lights.

 

[Rifleman1776]

Arkansas does have a full time secretary. Annual GL meetings are held in a hotel that charges. The building where the GL rents space does have ample space for the annual meeting, but for whatever reason they prefer fancier. BTW, the building they are in is called the Scottish Rite temple. It is a huge magnificent building, albiet not maintained, that should be preserved for history. But, I'm no longer part of the group and can only vent here.