Exorcism

[Godfrey Daniel]

"daemon"

 

[Hndrx]

" I'm not talking about the kind of people you see on TV, but people that don't even really like to talk about it openly. It is VERY difficult to get people to talk about the real deal. "

• could you provide some references for further inquiry?

"21. As to the origin of demons, Christian theology generally points to the idea that they are non-human intelligent beings (ie., angels) that served God at one time but have rebelled and now war against both God and mankind. I believe this to be the case and my belief is supported by the fact that demons have a very strong aversion to the name of Christ, invocation of the authority of God, etc."

• What about other cultures that have different origins to evil spirits, such as Hindu, Maya, and Native Americans, and older cultures such as pre-Islamic Persia?

The problem is that many people that have experienced the real deal both as victims and as those that fought demons are not quick to talk about it. Most of them are very quiet on the subject and don't publicly advertise the fact.

Regarding other cultures, most of them aren't able to deal with evil spirits effectively in most cases. The methods they just don't work as well and they have a much more limited success rate. Given the fact that demons don't like being in a spotlight, it isn't too unusual that they sometimes disappear when any form of attention is put on them. In some parts of the world, Catholic and Orthodox priests are sometimes called on by families to secretly do exorcisms on Buddhists and Muslims.

In the first example of an encounter with the demon (the mind reading girl), she was being "treated" by African folk religion and also voodoo for her possession. It did nothing to help, as a matter of fact, she got MUCH MUCH worse and it spread to include her sister. The demon involved feared anything Christian and would become very fearful in the presence of anyone Christian or Christian objects. Unfortunately, the family fled the area and I don't know their ultimate fate.

 

[dfreybur]

What about other cultures that have different origins to evil spirits, such as Hindu, Maya, and Native Americans, and older cultures such as pre-Islamic Persia?

Nearly every religion discusses spirits so you'll be able to find references. Whether you'll be able to find discussion of possession I can't say. When I read the Koran it mentions the Djinn. I am currently reading a collection of legends about Buddha and there is plenty of discussion of spirits being in his presence.

 

[BryanMaloney]

Asura/Ahura vs. Deva/Daeva, which is godly, which is demonic? Depends on whether you're Indian or Persian.

 

[Michael Neumann]

I'll try to summarize my thoughts on the subject:


14. Exorcism isn't an instant cure. It is an ongoing battle with attacks and counter attacks until they move on to easier targets. In the second situation that I alluded to, we performed multiple house blessings (ie., minor exorcisms) before it had a major effect.

Not necessarily spirits, just al little extra mental activity we cannot accept/explain.

 

[Rauchbier1987]

I agree with you that our minds are capable than most of us realize but I have also been a victim of a demonic infestation and performed an exorcism on a Ouija board. The bible sights demons and their abilities and so cannot be ignored

Brother Morris

 

[Silje-Madeleine]

All signs lead to this*

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[barryguitar]

Interesting read. Can we give some Kudos to the author of "Paradise Lost" for corrupting our understanding of the source of "evil"? There is nothing created that did not come from the creator. Why then must we ascribe our understanding of the existence of evil to the divine? It seems so apparent to me that evil exists no-where in the universe except the hearts of men and that is is purely the result of our separation from the divine and is a necessary result brought about by the freedom given to us by God to reject him. Are we really still saying "The Devil made me do it"?

 

[Rauchbier1987]

Not necessarily. I don't agree with people blaming their shortcomings and evil hearts on the demonic but every religion recognizes a negative entity to the positive creator. Now whether the cause of this is negative is merely the allowance of the divine to permit testing as is evident in the book of job or due to an independent will of the negative is based on your own understanding of what is written and what you chose to believe. However, the irrefutable fact stands that if you are part of any of the belief systems associated with masonry its somewhere in the book you read and worship out of.

Brother Morris

 

[Silje-Madeleine]

Heaven

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Freemasonry mobile app

 

[BryanMaloney]

Interesting read. Can we give some Kudos to the author of "Paradise Lost" for corrupting our understanding of the source of "evil"? There is nothing created that did not come from the creator. Why then must we ascribe our understanding of the existence of evil to the divine? It seems so apparent to me that evil exists no-where in the universe except the hearts of men and that is is purely the result of our separation from the divine and is a necessary result brought about by the freedom given to us by God to reject him. Are we really still saying "The Devil made me do it"?

The Jewish answer to this, continued by some Christian traditions, is that "evil" is how we perceive the absence of God, just like "darkness" is how we perceive the absence of light. Neither has an actual existence, it is our name for an absence. As God has made us, for whatever reason, a favored part of creation, we have been given the privilege to exclude Him from our thoughts, and by so doing, do evil. Note that mindfulness of God is not the same thing as piety. The two only coincidentally meet.

 

[barryguitar]

That's awesome, spot- on, Brian.

 

[JohnnyFlotsam]

Are we really still saying "The Devil made me do it"?

Oh, hell yes. Without naming names, there are a lot of religions that teach this, and still more whose members come to believe it regardless of the teachings of that religion. The ability to blame something supernatural for one's own failings and/or poor choices is very convenient.

 

[JohnnyFlotsam]

Not necessarily. I don't agree with people blaming their shortcomings and evil hearts on the demonic but every religion recognizes a negative entity to the positive creator.

That is incorrect.

However, the irrefutable fact stands that if you are part of any of the belief systems associated with masonry its somewhere in the book you read and worship out of.

Really? What "belief systems" would those be, Brother?

 

[Rauchbier1987]

I have yet to find a religion that isn't based solely in theology that does not have a negative entity in it somewhere. Though it is quite possible I am wrong but what religion in Freemasonry does not brother? I am always interested in learning more, can you please elaborate on your reply?

Brother Morris

 

[BryanMaloney]

There would be forms of Mayahana Buddhism that do not posit a "negative entity" on any cosmic scale. There might be individual "demons", but even they can become enlightened and achieve Nirvana.

 

[Rauchbier1987]

Interesting. I just learned something brother. I didn't know Buddhists could be masons and I was not aware that their evil spirits could become positive. I had thought that Buddhism didn't hold a theology and was solely based in philosophy. But do they not still have negative spirits to the positive ones? I'm not sure exactly how that works

Brother Morris

 

[Rauchbier1987]

Or do the negative spirits not hold any level of influence over men?

Brother Morris

 

[dfreybur]

I didn't know Buddhists could be masons

Some sects of Buddhism deal with deity some don't and none of them have rules against dealing with deity. As a result it is up to the individual Buddhist to address the topic or not. Many do and as a result there are practicing Buddhists who are Masons. The brother who raised me is a practicing Buddhist who in order to petition did decide to address the topic. When at social events well away from the building it is fascinating to discuss with him how he came to our doors.

and I was not aware that their evil spirits could become positive.

A matter of theology. Any being can turn to the positive. Should not demons in other faiths be in theory able to do so? Other than suggesting "Can versus actually do" I have no answer for anyone but myself and insufficient study of various religions on the topic.

I had thought that Buddhism didn't hold a theology and was solely based in philosophy.

If your definition for the word theology does not include what is done by the third largest faith on the planet (or are they currently fourth after Hindu) I suggest it's time for an expansion event inside your own mind. Break out of that definition.

But do they not still have negative spirits to the positive ones? I'm not sure exactly how that works

I don't know enough about the religion to address that. The Dhama Phada, the recorded sayings of the Buddha, does not address the topic. I recently finished listening to "Buddhist Writings" which are public domain translations of the legendary material that evolved around the Buddha. Those stories do address deities and spirits. The ones mentioned in those tales are positive ones.

 

[dfreybur]

... but what religion in Freemasonry does not brother? ...

The topic does make wording difficult, doesn't it? As Masonry isn't a religion a literal view of "religion in Freemasonry" could lead to an answer of "There is no such thing".

If I get your point correctly you mean the set of religions that have practicing members who are Masons. That would be every one either of us have heard of and many more. "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." is the best I can answer. Seek for some faith that fits your criteria and you'll find one. As usual in Masonry the result of such a search is an educational experience that "Makes good men better".