UGLE

[JM-MWPHGLGA]

It was not a grand lodge. This is much tougher than I thought it would be.

Lol, I didn't say it was a grand lodge. Forget about the lodges, grand lodges. A charter was not present then for those non-operative lodges whatever they were.


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[JM-MWPHGLGA]

Lol, I didn't say it was a grand lodge. Forget about the lodges, grand lodges. A charter was not present then for those non-operative lodges whatever they were.


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Don't miss the motive. I'm not here to learn about the UGLE lodge, only here to say a universal brotherhood is deeply missing. I can see some changes but we have a long way to go to stand on the square.


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[Glen Cook]

Of course I did and it refers to every regular Mason concerning clandestine. But that doesn't mean I can't think of something like this. Like its ban. We have agreed those four lodges didn't care for regular or irregular because they are "time immemorial" which means in today's time they can be considered clandestine lodges that later in 1813 came to form UGLE. My point is to get a universal brotherhood to become one and stop throwing around terms like regular and irregular hopefully in the future.


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I don't quite understand everything you wrote, but no, we don't agree that those lodges didn't care about regularity. It would be more accurate that we don't know whether they did or the standards they used. They may have been warranted by other lodges, as seen by the example of Mother Kilwinning. Or they may not have been. The concept of regularity then doesn't reflect in the concept of regularity now. Law changes and evolves. We find the same in the progression of the law in the recognition of nation states.

If the Masonic fraternity did not evolve, we might still be conferring two degrees.

Would you recognize every GL? Even those which haze and engage in physical abuse?

And...may I ask for your reference that all four of the lodges of the Premier GL were still there at the founding of UGLE?

 

[Glen Cook]

Lol, I didn't say it was a grand lodge. Forget about the lodges, grand lodges. A charter was not present then for those non-operative lodges whatever they were.


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How do you know a warrant wasn't present?

 

[JM-MWPHGLGA]

How do you know a warrant wasn't present?[/QUOTE. It doesn't say on the UGLE site. Can you give me a direct link that says it was?


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[JM-MWPHGLGA]

I don't quite understand everything you wrote, but no, we don't agree that those lodges didn't care about regularity. It would be more accurate that we don't know whether they did or the standards they used. They may have been warranted by other lodges, as seen by the example of Mother Kilwinning. Or they may not have been. The concept of regularity then doesn't reflect in the concept of regularity now. Law changes and evolves. We find the same in the progression of the law in the recognition of nation states.

If the Masonic fraternity did not evolve, we might still be conferring two degrees.

Would you recognize every GL? Even those which haze and engage in physical abuse?

And...may I ask for your reference that all four of the lodges of the Premier GL were still there at the founding of UGLE?

Your right laws change everyday. So why is it so difficult for a brother like me to want change now. There's nothing wrong with that. No wrong or right. The UGLE don't recognize PHA right now because of racial concerns in Georgia. We don't do hazing or that sort.


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[JM-MWPHGLGA]

Your right laws change everyday. So why is it so difficult for a brother like me to want change now. There's nothing wrong with that. No wrong or right. The UGLE don't recognize PHA right now because of racial concerns in Georgia. We don't do hazing or that sort.


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Note: I'm a young brother, there are many young eager brothers who will want the same objective as me. This is the new generation. This is true brotherhood, if lodges want to do hazing they will not be included. Soon every lodge will be on the square together not worrying about white or black, which is a color crayon color. Equality is what need to be practice. The craft does not belong to any lodge but to the Supreme being. He who sets the standards for ancient and modern man.


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[JM-MWPHGLGA]

I don't quite understand everything you wrote, but no, we don't agree that those lodges didn't care about regularity. It would be more accurate that we don't know whether they did or the standards they used. They may have been warranted by other lodges, as seen by the example of Mother Kilwinning. Or they may not have been. The concept of regularity then doesn't reflect in the concept of regularity now. Law changes and evolves. We find the same in the progression of the law in the recognition of nation states.
Once again you don't know either. Because of the lack of evidence this conversation can be noted as unnecessary.
If the Masonic fraternity did not evolve, we might still be conferring two degrees.

Would you recognize every GL? Even those which haze and engage in physical abuse?

And...may I ask for your reference that all four of the lodges of the Premier GL were still there at the founding of UGLE?

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[Glen Cook]

Your right laws change everyday. So why is it so difficult for a brother like me to want change now. There's nothing wrong with that. No wrong or right. The UGLE don't recognize PHA right now because of racial concerns in Georgia. We don't do hazing or that sort.


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No problem with wanting change, and that is a desire if many of us.

To be more precise, UGLE is not in amity because of a lack of treaty between GLGA and PHA GA, which is in part due to racism, but problematic based on an understanding that PHA GA is in amity with GLdF.

 

[Glen Cook]

As indicated a number of times, including in the link I previously posted, we don't know if a warrant (the current term in this jurisdiction) was I present.

 

[Glen Cook]

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Note: I'm a young brother, there are many young eager brothers who will want the same objective as me. This is the new generation. This is true brotherhood, if lodges want to do hazing they will not be included. Soon every lodge will be on the square together not worrying about white or black, which is a color crayon color. Equality is what need to be practice. The craft does not belong to any lodge but to the Supreme being. He who sets the standards for ancient and modern man.


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The ageism is noted. As you gain experience, you will find some brothers agree with you regardless of age, and some disagree with you regardless of age. Try the Deception of International Masons FB page and see the response of young brothers there to some of your views (be sure and mention your theory on Egyptian origination).

Your comments as to colour are at best mislaid, if not misleading. This is not an issue of colour, as PHA has been vocal in its condemnation of clandestine GLs within the black community, even devoting a website to it. Yes, equality does need to be practiced, and many of us have been doing so since around the time you were born. I sat on the board of my local NAACP and was the attorney of the year in 1996. I sat as a pro tem officer in a PHA lodge in 1997. I argued to allow our PHA lodges to meet in our Utah GL buildings--successfully. It was at my instance that my mother GL recognized PHA NC before UGLE did so. It was my direction that letters be sent to PHA GLs seeking recognition? Please don't presume to lecture me about equality.

I did not see a response to whether you would recognize GLs which allow hazing and abuse. Would you also recognize feminine and co-ed GLs? What about GLs which are Christian?

nb. I make no claim that the Craft belongs to the Supreme Being. It is a man made organisation and makes no pretense of divine origination or even sanction.

Please understand, I have no objection to any Master Mason giving an opinion as to what he wishes Freemasony to be; what he wants it to be. That is different than declaring what Freemasonry is.

But other than that I have no strong feelings

 

[MRichard]

Note: I'm a young brother, there are many young eager brothers who will want the same objective as me. This is the new generation. This is true brotherhood, if lodges want to do hazing they will not be included. Soon every lodge will be on the square together not worrying about white or black, which is a color crayon color. Equality is what need to be practice. The craft does not belong to any lodge but to the Supreme being. He who sets the standards for ancient and modern man.


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You will find that others want change as well. Nothing will happen overnight but there are only 9 states left that do not recognize the PHA grand lodge in their state. Ten years ago, that number would have been higher. So there has been change.

Each grand lodge is sovereign. They set their own standards for the most part. The Supreme Architect doesn't set the standards for the craft. Grand lodges do. You were asked if you believe in a higher power cause your Obligation would be worthless if you didn't. Unfortunately, some grand lodges are influenced by the religious beliefs of their members. That has become a divisive issue lately in a few grand lodges.

 

[Ripcord22A]

. The craft does not belong to any lodge but to the Supreme being. He who sets the standards for ancient and modern man.

Saying things like this on am open forum, and speaking as a Master Mason, someone might think you speak for the craft and it sounds like you are saying the Craft is a religion.

Also I too am a younger Mason and my recomendation to you is to step back and look at tue craft for what it is...a fraternity with moral teachings to help you be a better person. Really no.differnt then going to shrink so to speak. Dont turn in to someone like a member or two on here is think that god is invested in FM and is taking an active part in the degree ceremonies.



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[JM-MWPHGLGA]

Saying things like this on am open forum, and speaking as a Master Mason, someone might think you speak for the craft and it sounds like you are saying the Craft is a religion.

Also I too am a younger Mason and my recomendation to you is to step back and look at tue craft for what it is...a fraternity with moral teachings to help you be a better person. Really no.differnt then going to shrink so to speak. Dont turn in to someone like a member or two on here is think that god is invested in FM and is taking an active part in the degree ceremonies.



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I don't think the craft to be a religion. I'm sorry if you think that. I'm only pointing out the Egocentric attitudes that I believe can be erased. My Egyptian theory is accepted by more than just me. The Supreme Being is the one who laid out the plan for man to stand upright in the beginning not just all of a sudden in three degrees. I'm not speaking on him dwelling in the midst of the ceremonies, I don't feed into that kind of spookism so to speak.


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[JM-MWPHGLGA]

You will find that others want change as well. Nothing will happen overnight but there are only 9 states left that do not recognize the PHA grand lodge in their state. Ten years ago, that number would have been higher. So there has been change.

Each grand lodge is sovereign. They set their own standards for the most part. The Supreme Architect doesn't set the standards for the craft. Grand lodges do. You were asked if you believe in a higher power cause your Obligation would be worthless if you didn't. Unfortunately, some grand lodges are influenced by the religious beliefs of their members. That has become a divisive issue lately in a few grand lodges.

And that's a good start.


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[JM-MWPHGLGA]

The ageism is noted. As you gain experience, you will find some brothers agree with you regardless of age, and some disagree with you regardless of age. Try the Deception of International Masons FB page and see the response of young brothers there to some of your views (be sure and mention your theory on Egyptian origination).

Your comments as to colour are at best mislaid, if not misleading. This is not an issue of colour, as PHA has been vocal in its condemnation of clandestine GLs within the black community, even devoting a website to it. Yes, equality does need to be practiced, and many of us have been doing so since around the time you were born. I sat on the board of my local NAACP and was the attorney of the year in 1996. I sat as a pro tem officer in a PHA lodge in 1997. I argued to allow our PHA lodges to meet in our Utah GL buildings--successfully. It was at my instance that my mother GL recognized PHA NC before UGLE did so. It was my direction that letters be sent to PHA GLs seeking recognition? Please don't presume to lecture me about equality.

I did not see a response to whether you would recognize GLs which allow hazing and abuse. Would you also recognize feminine and co-ed GLs? What about GLs which are Christian?

nb. I make no claim that the Craft belongs to the Supreme Being. It is a man made organisation and makes no pretense of divine origination or even sanction.

Please understand, I have no objection to any Master Mason giving an opinion as to what he wishes Freemasony to be; what he wants it to be. That is different than declaring what Freemasonry is.

But other than that I have no strong feelings

Note: you can't base the color agenda off of one particular state without actually being in it or around it regardless of what PHA have with other clandestine lodges. Those are truly great achievements. That's all I'm saying is working together as a unit can solve a lot of things. Complacency can became a regular road if not careful.


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[Ripcord22A]

What GL doesnt think SAotU isnt still around always watching, knowing all?

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[dlacaille]

I make absolutely no claims to the truth of the referenced book below or the reputation of its authors. I also sincerely hope that I break no laws regarding copyright here as I'm excerpting only a few sentences.

But regarding the first 4 lodges, I recently read this in the book "Freemasonry: Rituals, Symbols & History of the Secret Society" By Mark Stavish & Lon Milo DuQuette:


Masons met in taverns and coffeehouses, naming their lodges after the places they met. In February 1717, the Apple Tree, the Crown, the Goose and Gridiron, and the Rummer and Grapes lodges met in the Apple Tree Tavern on Charles Street in the Covent Garden district of London. Of the four lodges present, three of them were composed primarily of Operative erative Masons, with some Accepted Masons in the ranks. Rummer and Grapes was a different story, composed exclusively of Accepted Masons, all gentlemen, and a few nobles as well. Their discussion centered around the future of Freemasonry in England.


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[Ripcord22A]

Refusal of candidates based on religion or color might also be issues on which the GAOTU takes umbrage.

I disagree....he made us speak different languages to drive us appart so we couldn't finish the tower of babel....so essentially we are just carrying on exactly what he wanted




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[dlacaille]

If you are Christian, Muslim or Jewish perhaps.


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