What would you like to see changed in the Masonic experience?

[cemab4y]

CM: "In my experience, there is no memorization, after the Craft degree lectures. "

??? You mean other than funeral ceremonies, installation, master's ob, closing charge and, as someone said, 100 side orders (a number I question)?

--I see your point of course. I should have said, there is no mandatory memorization, to advance through the Craft degrees, other than the lectures.

Of course, there are ceremonies, and cornerstone-laying, etc. These memorizations are required of officers and participants. I never looked upon the Craft as a "memorization club". Myself, I cherish the rituals. I visit a lot of lodges, and I have been in lodges where one of officers would be absent. The WM would ask for a volunteer to fill in for an officer. No one there would volunteer, so I have often helped out. The level of individual Masons in their ability to memorize is uneven.

 

[LAMason]

To that point, see "Origins of Speculative Masonry" by John Palmer, Rocky Mountain Mason, Vol. 2, Issue 2, 2015

It looks like you have to have a subscription to get the article, but there is a lot of information at: http://freemasonry.bcy.ca/aqc/history_theories.html

 

[cemab4y]

There are easily over 100 appendant and concordant bodies affiliated or otherwise included in the Masonic "family" of organizations. Some are well-known, almost everyone has heard of the Shriners. Some are obscure, like the Royal Order of Quetzlcoatl. Some are small, like the "Constellation" (an organization for young ladies, which exists only in the state of New York. Some are invitation only, like the Royal Order of Jesters. Some are only loosely connected, like the Philalathes Society, an independent research society. Another of more obscure is the "Society of Blue Friars". "The Society of Blue Friars" was formed in 1932, explicitly "to recognize Masonic Authors." It is probably the smallest, and certainly one of the oddest, concordant bodies in Masonry. It has no fixed ritual or ceremonies, no dues or fees, and very few records. There are "widow's sons" motorcycle clubs, and other theme-based clubs.

There is the "Order of the Builders for Boys" , which exists only in Kentucky. It is for young men, 11 to 21, who are related to a Master Mason. There is the "Confederate Military Lodge of Research" , which is not really a "lodge" .but an organization of Masons who are interested in the War between the States.

I believe, that it is important that every Mason should have a basic understanding of the appendant/concordant bodies. I am an (inactive) Shriner. My wife and I have enjoyed the fellowship and fun of the Shrine. If a Mason is interested in the historical and esoteric aspects of Freemasonry, there is the York and Scottish Rites.

 

[Glen Cook]

There are easily over 100 appendant and concordant bodies affiliated or otherwise included in the Masonic "family" of organizations. ..Snip.

Yes, those of us involved in the side orders are aware of them. My question, as someone involved in them, is if there are over 100, Simply repeating the claim and describing a few groups does not make the claim true. So, citation?

Now, a more productive area of discussion would be whether the increasing number of side orders actually hurts the fraternity by diminishing our time with the symbolic degrees. I know that is the case for me.

 

[cemab4y]

Yes, those of us involved in the side orders are aware of them. My question, as someone involved in them, is if there are over 100, Simply repeating the claim and describing a few groups does not make the claim true. So, citation?

Now, a more productive area of discussion would be whether the increasing number of side orders actually hurts the fraternity by diminishing our time with the symbolic degrees. I know that is the case for me.

ns
Here is a partial list of the groups that exist nationally:

http://www.bessel.org/append.htm

and

http://freemasonry.bcy.ca/texts/masonic_degrees.html

I do not agree that there are an "increasing" number of appendant/concordant bodies. My feeling is that the large number of groups in our "family", is a benefit. Each individual Mason, can seek out the type of club or group, which will give him enjoyment and satisfaction. I have transported children and parents to the Shrine hospitals. The Shrine is far removed from Craft Masonry. But, my Shrine experiences have been wonderful, and I could not be a Shriner without Masonry.

Sadly, many of the appendant bodies are experiencing a reduction in numbers, similar to what we are seeing in Craft Masonry.

 

[Glen Cook]

ns
Here is a partial list of the groups that exist nationally:

http://www.bessel.org/append.htm

and

http://freemasonry.bcy.ca/texts/masonic_degrees.html

I do not agree that there are an "increasing" number of appendant/concordant bodies. .

Not 100.

No increasing number?
Scarlet Cord
Operatives
Acon
Athelstan
Spiritual Knights
Pilgrim Preceptors
The now disolved KT rectified rite

 

[cemab4y]

I said here is a PARTIAL list. There are many groups that are not national. The "Constellation" exists only in New York state. There are allied Masonic degrees, not extant nationally. If you do an internet search, you will find easily over 100 different groups that are affiliated with Masonry, or have a Masonic connection.

 

[Glen Cook]

I said here is a PARTIAL list. There are many groups that are not national. The "Constellation" exists only in New York state. There are allied Masonic degrees, not extant nationally. If you do an internet search, you will find easily over 100 different groups that are affiliated with Masonry, or have a Masonic connection.

Citation to over 100?

So you agree that the number of side orders are expanding?

 

[cemab4y]

If you do an internet search, you will easily find over 100 appendant/concordant bodies. The royal order of Beauceant. The Daughters of Mokanna (wives of Grotto members), the heroines of Jericho, the Memphis-Mizraim, and the "Rite of Memphis" has 99 degrees alone, the list goes on and on.

See:

• Freemasonry

• Order of Freemasons under the Grand Orient of the Netherlands
• Order of Freemasons under the Grand Chapter of Higher Degrees in the Netherlands
• Department of the Masters' Degree
• Supreme Council of the 33rd and Last Degree of the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite in the Netherlands
• York Rite
• Grand Chapter of the Holy Royal Arch in the Netherlands
• Provincial Grand Lodge of the Royal Order of Scotland for the Netherlands
• District Grand Lodge of the Mark Masters in the Netherlands
• United Religious, Military, and Masonic Orders of the Temple, and of St.John of Jerusalem, Palestine, Rhodes, and Malta
• Knight Templar Priests
• Royal and Select Masters
• Knights of York Cross of Honour
• Order of the Red Cross of Constantine
• Societas Rosicruciana in Anglia
• International Order of Co-Masonry 'Le Droit Humain'
• Dutch Grand Lodge of Co-Masonry
• Dutch Association of Freemasons
• Ancient and Primitive Rite of Memphis-Misraïm
• Order of the Secret Monitor
• Order of the Allied Masonic Degrees
• Order of Eri
• Knights Beneficent of the Holy City
• Masonic Order of Athelstan
• Order of the Knight Masons
• August Order of Light
• Order of St. Thomas of Acon
• Adoptive Rite
• Ancient Arabic Nobles of the Mystic Shrine (Shriners)
• Ancient Egyptian Order of Sciots
• Mystic Order of Veiled Prophets of the Enchanted Realm (Grotto)
• Ancient Toltec Rite

• Ancient Arabic Order of Daughters of Sphinx
• Daughters of the Nile
• Ladies Oriental Shrine of North America
• Daughters of Isis
• Daughters of Mokanna
• Order of the Eastern Star
• Order of the Golden Chain
• Order of Rainbow for Girls
• International Order of Job's Daughters
• Order of the Amaranth
• Order Star of Bethlehem
• Order of the White Shrine of Jerusalem
• Heroines of Jericho
• Order of the True Kindred
• Ladies of Knights Templar
• Order of DeMolay
• Order of the Builders
• Swedenborgian Rite
• Royal Order of Jesters
• Order of Quetzalcoatl
• Tall Cedars of Lebanon
• National Sojourners / Heroes of '76
• Social Order of the Beauceant

I will agree that the number of appendant/concordant bodies has increased in the past years. Considering the decline in Craft Masons in previous years, and the projected continuing decline, I do not foresee any major expansion in the number of appendant organizations. Statistical inference would lead me to forecast a concurrent decline in both the number of participants in the appendant bodies, and a reduction in the number of organizations.

 

[Glen Cook]

I'm relatively sure that the Nederlands groups aren't active in the US, but I could be wrong. Rite of Memohis is not legitimately worked in the US. OSM is part of AMD in the US. I think you copied and pasted the wrong list.

As you are giving your opinion on the side orders, in which are you involved?

 

[cemab4y]

When I say appendant/concordant groups, I mean ALL bodies which have a connection to Freemasonry. Whether they exist in the USA, or in one state, or in a foreign country. Many (but not all) of the groups in that list, are active in the USA.

I do a lot of international work. I have been working in Iraq/Afghanistan, and I am flying to Kuwait soon. I am a Craft Mason, and I belong to the Alexandria VA Scottish Rite bodies. I demitted from the Shrine some years ago. I was in the "Turtles" for a while. I took the classes to be a DeMolay advisor, but I was never a DeMolay in my teen years.

I do not claim to be an expert on all of the appedant/concordant bodies. As to my opinion, I think it is great, that there are so many different and varied groups in the Masonic family of organizations. Many (but not all) of the groups support a whole rainbow of charities. One of my favorite is the Grotto, which has a program that provides free dental care to handicapped children.

 

[Glen Cook]

I agree that world wide, clandestine and irregular, there are likely a hundred.

And, it appears that you are not involved with any side orders, regardless of their laudable programs.

 

[cemab4y]

I agree that world wide, clandestine and irregular, there are likely a hundred.

And, it appears that you are not involved with any side orders, regardless of their laudable programs.

See my previous posting:

quote I belong to the Alexandria VA Scottish Rite bodies. unquote. And see my signature at the end of this posting.

I have been a Scottish Rite Mason since 1988 (not continuously). The Scottish Rite (southern jurisdiction USA) supports several charitable programs. Our principal charity is a network of childhood speech/language/hearing disorder clinics. I do a lot of work in foreign locations, and I am unable to participate in Masonry, and the appendant bodies, when I am living in a country like Kuwait, where Masonry is illegal.

Once I am finished with international work, I plan to be very active in the Shrine. When I lived in Columbus OH, I was active in the Shrine, I belonged to five Shrine clubs, and I was president of one of them.

 

[LAMason]

@cemab4y

Your modus operandi of "If you can't dazzle them with brilliance baffle them with bs" doesn't work on people who are better informed than you are.

Quite frankly I find your bloviating and attempts at self aggrandizement tiresome.

 

[Glen Cook]

Brother Martin: you really can't just give a straight answer, can you? Whether about attendance at a Tyled PHA meeting or this question, you must obfuscate. No one asked about the Rite's charitable activities. No one asked about your future intent. You've told us repeatedly about travel for work in othe instances of avoiding a question .

The fact is, your not involved in side orders. I suspect you're not much involved in Masonry at all.

This is mid-April. I will bet $100 to the Salt Lake Children's Learning center you can't give simple direct one word answers to two questions: How many Masonic meetings have you been to this year? How long have you been in the states since your last contract?

 

[cemab4y]

Here you are:

How many masonic meetings have I attended in 2015:
Zero.
(This is a one-word answer)

How long have I been in the USA since completing my last international contract?
I left Afghanistan, on 24 January 2014.
( I have been on-call for immediate international departure. I am leaving for Kuwait next week)
I cannot answer the second question with a one-word answer, so you win.

I am "involved" with the Alexandria VA Scottish Rite. My only involvement is my membership.

 

[Glen Cook]

Here you are:

How many masonic meetings have I attended in 2015:
Zero.
(This is a one-word answer)

How long have I been in the USA since completing my last international contract?
I left Afghanistan, on 24 January 2014.
( I have been on-call for immediate international departure. I am leaving for Kuwait next week)
I cannot answer the second question with a one-word answer, so you win.

I am "involved" with the Alexandria VA Scottish Rite. My only involvement is my membership.

See, I knew you couldn't give one word answers. You could have said zero and app 15 months.

But the point is that you really aren't involved in Freemasonry. You are an Internet Mason. You put forth opinions about what GL policies are, the state of appendent bodies, what programs are in place, but you don't really know because you aren't involved, as demonstrated by your forced, still slightly obfuscating answers.

 

[crono782]

I'm seeing fewer and fewer constructive replies in this thread related to "what would you like to see changed in the Masonic experience" and more hashing out aggravations. Hit the reset button and get the topic back on track or leave it be please.

 

[cemab4y]

I must agree. Let's keep the discussions on point, and within the scope of the topic.

 

[cemab4y]

“I am not an advocate for frequent changes in laws and Constitutions. But laws and institutions must go hand in hand with the progress of the human mind. As that becomes more developed, more enlightened, as new discoveries are made, new truths discovered and manners and opinions change, with the change of circumstances, institutions must advance also to keep pace with the times. We might as well require a man to wear still the coat which fitted him when a boy as civilized society to remain ever under the regimen of their barbarous ancestors.”

― Thomas Jefferson

This statement could easily apply to Freemasonry