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Visiting Overseas

Jake_O'Rear

Registered User
My father-in-law is moving to Amsterdam this year, and my wife and I are planning on visiting him while he is over there. I'd like to visit a lodge while I'm over there. From what I've seen, Rotterdam will be the closest English speaking lodge near Amsterdam.

Has anyone visited a lodge in a different country, and if so, what all is needed when doing so? I wouldn't want to show up and be turned away.

Thanks in advance.
 
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Elexir

Registered User
My father-in-law is moving to Amsterdam this year, and my wife and I are planning on visiting him while he is over there. I'd like to visit a lodge while I'm over there. From what I've seen, Rotterdam will be the closest English speaking lodge near Amsterdam.

Has anyone visited a lodge in a different country, and if so, what all is needed when doing so? I wouldn't want to show up and be turned away.

Thanks in advance.

Talk to your lodge secretary about it, he will know the procedure and can get started on the contacts needed (it has to go through your GL)
Dont try to contact any lodge or GL yourself as its not considerd proper protocol.
 

Winter

Premium Member
What Elexir said. All communication with a foreign GL needs to be handled by the respective Grand Secretaries. They'll exchange the required niceties and documents. You'll be given paperwork to carry with you to present to whoever your contact will be. Start the process early as it can take weeks sometime to get approval for visitation. Sometimes it is a matter of a phone call. Expect to be examined when you do show up, which can be interesting if their ritual is very different from your home one. Visitation is fun and I hope you have a great experience.
 

Brother JC

Moderating Staff
Staff Member
I spoke with my secretary on Tuesday, he said all I would need is my current dues card and be ready to be examined.

No offense to your Secretary but the Netherlands lodges don’t have dues cards so you my be unpleasantly surprised when you get there. But I will keep a positive outlook and hope you have an incredible time.
 

Mark Stockdale

Premium Member
No offense to your Secretary but the Netherlands lodges don’t have dues cards so you my be unpleasantly surprised when you get there. But I will keep a positive outlook and hope you have an incredible time.

We don't have them in Scotland either, but the Secretary can issue a 'Clearance Certificate' that states we are in good standing.
 

Jake_O'Rear

Registered User
As in, no contact with the jurisdiction before you visit is needed? Sorry, but that sounds like some bad advice.

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Yeah, it didnt sound right to me either. I know my uncle has traveled to various states without contact before, but I've never known anyone to go overseas. I have always thought it would be more to it than "just have your dues card".

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Winter

Premium Member
Yeah, it didnt sound right to me either. I know my uncle has traveled to various states without contact before, but I've never known anyone to go overseas. I have always thought it would be more to it than "just have your dues card".

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Between states is one thing. I've never had a problem. Particularly in places like Florida that see a large influx of out of state visitors every year. But traveling to a foreign country with a plan to visit will almost always include your Grand Secretary contacting their foreign counterpart to see what their requirements are. It could very well be that they say just show up and be prepared to be tested. But it can just as easily be much more involved and require letters of good standing. Which, a dues card may or may not serve for.

If you know where you are going, try checking to see if the GL there has a website. And FIRST check they are regular and recognized. And then see if their site has a section for potential visitors and what may be required.

Be advised. Many jurisdictions prohibit contacting a foreign GL on their own without going through your Grand Secretary's office. Although I have had chance encounters with Masons while traveling and after checking my bona fides invited me to Lodge.

But, if the instructions you got (hopefully in writing) were to bring your dues card and go have fun, well give it a go. Either way, have fun and I hope you get to sit in a foreign lodge and make friends!

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Jake_O'Rear

Registered User
Between states is one thing. I've never had a problem. Particularly in places like Florida that see a large influx of out of state visitors every year. But traveling to a foreign country with a plan to visit will almost always include your Grand Secretary contacting their foreign counterpart to see what their requirements are. It could very well be that they say just show up and be prepared to be tested. But it can just as easily be much more involved and require letters of good standing. Which, a dues card may or may not serve for.

If you know where you are going, try checking to see if the GL there has a website. And FIRST check they are regular and recognized. And then see if their site has a section for potential visitors and what may be required.

Be advised. Many jurisdictions prohibit contacting a foreign GL on their own without going through your Grand Secretary's office. Although I have had chance encounters with Masons while traveling and after checking my bona fides invited me to Lodge.

But, if the instructions you got (hopefully in writing) were to bring your dues card and go have fun, well give it a go. Either way, have fun and I hope you get to sit in a foreign lodge and make friends!

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Thanks for all the info.

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Bloke

Premium Member
We don't have them in Scotland either, but the Secretary can issue a 'Clearance Certificate' that states we are in good standing.
Hi Bro Mark

A Clearance Certificate shows you have resigned from a lodge in Good Standing.
What a traveling Brother needs is his a Travel Letter which confirms he is a member and in Good Standing. Americans will generally use a current Dues Card as the equivalent of a Travel Letter. Here, a Travel Letter is written by a Lodge Sec, and preferably supplied to our GL for the Grand Lodge seal to be affixed.

More generally, while in most Constitutions, GL to GL correspondence needs to be via a Grand Sec, we have a loophole in our Const - we can correspond personally with Freemasons (our Const is silent on this). I often write to Lodges and Freemasons "in a personal capacity" when researching (that's what you and I are doing now :) ) . Some might see that as a bit naughty, but I do it often. I would also say, as an experienced brother with access our GL records, I know which Lodges are recognised and not - most of the time it does not matter and I am just after info on long deceased brothers... so Regularity is irrelevant anyway..
 

Mark Stockdale

Premium Member
A Clearance Certificate shows you have resigned from a lodge in Good Standing.

I'm only going by what he called it, as I've not traveled out of he country yet for any visits it will be my first time I need anything. I shredded my receipt ( as I normally do after a few months) and then was told I could use my receipt for the test fees as proof. I will have to remember to keep the one I get this year.
 

Roy_

Registered User
Jake, I'm not a member of the Grand Orient myself, but us Dutch are pretty easy-going. Just send an email to the lodge you intend to visit and the secretary will let you know what's next. This lodge (working in Dutch) basically says how it works. And while you're here, be sure to visit the new Masonic Museum in Den Haag (the Hague). And wouldn't it be nice to just visit a Dutch-speaking lodge? Here's an Amsterdam Dutch speaking lodge with information in English.
 
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Elexir

Registered User
Jake, I'm not a member of the Grand Orient myself, but us Dutch are pretty easy-going. Just send an email to the lodge you intend to visit and the secretary will let you know what's next. This lodge (working in Dutch) basically says how it works. And while you're here, be sure to visit the new Masonic Museum in Den Haag (the Hague). And wouldn't it be nice to just visit a Dutch-speaking lodge? Here's an Amsterdam Dutch speaking lodge with information in English.

Actully what your saying is exatly the reason who people should always go through their GL.
Most people do the misstake that the masonic landscape is similar to their own so they actully dont know wich GL to go to wich could end up with them facing problems.
 

Roy_

Registered User
I think you got me wrong. When Jake would contact the secretary, this secretary will just give the information he needs, including if he is allowed to visit and how the lodge prefers to check this. That works a lot better than trying to think what a lodge may think, go through your GL, bring a piece of paper that the foreign lodge has no idea what it is and then have to check things. Things work a lot easier if there has been contact beforehand. So 'easy-going' in the meaning: nobody will mind if Jake contacts the lodge first and establish the 'official contacts' later.
 

Elexir

Registered User
I think you got me wrong. When Jake would contact the secretary, this secretary will just give the information he needs, including if he is allowed to visit and how the lodge prefers to check this. That works a lot better than trying to think what a lodge may think, go through your GL, bring a piece of paper that the foreign lodge has no idea what it is and then have to check things. Things work a lot easier if there has been contact beforehand. So 'easy-going' in the meaning: nobody will mind if Jake contacts the lodge first and establish the 'official contacts' later.

Problem is that when you have any situation with multiple GLs in a country where only one is recognised you have to know wich GL your GL recognises (and no, not all regular GLs recognise each other. Its a minefield where if you make a misstake you can have charges pressed against you)
 

Roy_

Registered User
Certainly, but a letter of good standing by his GL isn't going clear that up. And even his his Grand Secretary checked if they are in amity with the Dutch Grand Orient, I'd still contact the lodge before showing up at the door.
That said, Jake, see my links a few posts up.
 
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