<sigh> yep
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UGLE
- Thread starter JM-MWPHGLGA
- Start date
The romantic in me wants so much to affirm this.
However, the critical thinker in me says: The available evidence is pretty clear that Freemasonry and its Morality plays came into being soon after the first quarterly dinner party and, from all outward indications, as an afterthought.
This doesn't make it any less grand. It just puts it into a much clearer perspective.
Bloke
Premium Member
I agrre it doesn't make it any less grand. Were Ashmole or Moray described as "admitted" "accepted" or "initiated" into a lodge. If the later, it suggests an initiation ceremony existed when they joined. If your not sure, we can check, but later..
Something you might enjoy reading: http://buildinghiram.blogspot.com/2014/07/building-free-men-chapter-iv-accepting.html
Dontrell Stroman
Premium Member
"Freemasonry began with the founding of the Grand Lodge of England on the 24th of June 1717, on St John’s Day actually, which was the first Grand Lodge in the world". If this has already been explained, please point me to the correct thread. My question is, does anyone know how Masonic lodges were governed before the GL of England was formed ? I find this very interesting.
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Freemasonry existed long before this
And the rabbit hole goes deep!
Sure it did; it started in Ancient Greece and it involved goats, chorales and at least one masked actor.
Yep. I laughed too, at first...
You might want to go back a little further than Ancient Greece way back
Dontrell Stroman
Premium Member
How do you think lodges operated ? Do you think they operated as what we know lodges to be today ? Do you think signs have changed etc
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Nah. All else is conjecture.
dfreybur
Premium Member
Notice you jump between the Grand Lodge level and the Lodge level.
Plenty of lodges existed before the 1717 organizational change. They they had masters and/or wardens as they had for generations. Some functioned as operative labor unions. Some functioned as speculative lodges. Some of the operative lodges took non-laboring members for the money rather like we now take non-attending members for the money after they move on to appendent bodies.
Maybe there were large scale organization among lodges before 1717 and maybe there was not, but leadership at the Grand Lodge level did not change how individual lodges were lead. At least not at first. That took time and evolution.
Lol I like how you put that
Dontrell Stroman
Premium Member
What is quoted is from an article I read online. Do you think what we know masonry as today was the same in 16th century ?
Bloke
Premium Member
We know its not. For instance the third degree did not exist in the 16th century, if there was something akin to speculative masonry, it was more likely about Noah ( can't think of the supporting doc. That weakens my point - sure someone will help) tha HA, a character from the yet to be incorporated 3rd degree..
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What we have today is Freemasonry and it is theatrically based. It is no where near like it was in 1717.
What existed prior to 1717 was a bunch of stonecraft organizations. Some took on members who had no interest in stonecrafting, but wanted to belong to the organization anyway.
Dontrell Stroman
Premium Member
Do you brothers think signs, ob. Etc are the same ?
Heck, the stuff you're asking about ain't universal today.