The Age Old Question: Is Freemasonry A Religion?

Bro. Jamie,

I have no doubt that it will be pointed out that none of these writers speak for Freemasonry, their opinions are their own, etc., etc.
However, you have indeed illustrated that the answer is not an unequivocal "no". It depends both on the individual's understanding of what "religion" is and what Freemasonry is. As evidenced by this thread and others I've followed, there are many different opinions of both. That makes for a fascinating discussion, but one with no resolution. That's not a bad thing, and hopefully it lowers the stakes so that there can be less contention in the discussion.

Regarding referencing Wikipedia, I will admit that I did not realize your comment to be tongue in cheek. I have seen Wikipedia cited as an authoritative source so often, that it never surprises me, despite the fact that I was taught in grade school to never use an encyclopedia as a source, but as a place to start to find the sources.


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I think that it is quite difficult to come to a single definition for religion. Whoever is defining it is necessarily bringing their own perspective and culture to the definition.

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Very true. What someone considers religion can be a very different experience from what someone else would consider to be the same thing.

Still, I've never had an religious experiences with Freemasonry. Has it made me a more religious or spiritual person? I'd like to think so, it's certainly made me want to do so, at least...but that's been a personal journey between myself and my faith. The Lodge can not and will not ever be able to replace going to church on Sunday for me...and I think that applies regardless of a man's faith. That's also why I don't believe Freemasonry is or ever could be considered a religion...because it simply cannot replace or substitute a man's usual religious experiences.

I've never heard a man claim his faith to be "Freemasonry".

Finally, and this is more a personal musing than anything else...but Freemasonry has always struck me more as a system of philosophy. Can a philosophy come close? Possibly...I can certainly see how it may seem that way sometimes. Most religions seem to be philosophic but not all philosophy has to be religious...and I think this is where the different lies. If Freemasonry is a philosophy it may have some strong religious undertones but I believe those are more a by-product of the era in which it was born than any real attempt to be taken as a religion.

I hope that was coherent enough, it's late.

Very good points. The thing about freemasonry is it's a personal journey. Some take it a lot further than others.

jamie.guinn said:

The thing about freemasonry is it's a personal journey.

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BINGO! Each man finds something within Freemasonry. That something can be similar to, but not identical to the next man because it a personal thing. Much like Religion, which is a personal relation ship between the man, and his comprehension of the teachings of his Religion. However, in my own experience, Freemasonry cannot be a religion as it clearly states in our ritual where each Mason should turn for guidance.

The most complete and definitive examination of modern Freemasonry that I have found was written by a Harvard law professor 99 years ago. He examines the influence and direction given to Masonry by four of it's most notable contributors. Most Masons are aware of two of them, William Preston and Albert Pike. Less well known, but equally influential I think, are Karl Christian Friedrich Krause and George Oliver.

The understanding of Freemasonry that we have today comes largely from the influence and direction given by these four men. If one wants to understand modern Freemasonry I can offer no better explanation than to recommend the book Philosophy of Freemasonry by Roscoe Pound. It is available for free from dozens of web sites. The version that I enjoy reading is found here: https://archive.org/stream/cu31924030286466#page/n5/mode/2up

jamie.guinn said:

Brother Ernest Borgnine said that freemasonry was enough religion for him, and I concur.

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In lodge we teach to agree, but that's not a lesson I'm good at. I'm obedient to the rules but I disagree with a lot of stuff. I value Bro Borgnine's work in his profession and our craft but on this point I think he did us a disservice.

One can be a brother without having a religion. We require a belief in the existence of a supreme being and that's not the same as having a religion. I know men who believe in the existence of a supreme being who will not accept membership in either organized or disorganized religion. I had a phase of that myself in my youth. Perhaps this is what our departed brother meant? I think so.

jamie.guinn said:

Albert Pike declares in Morals and Dogma, "Every Masonic lodge is a temple of religion, and its teaching are instructions in religion…this is true religion revealed to the ancient patriarchs; which Masonry has taught for many centuries, and which it will continue to teach as long as time endures."

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I see, so then, Pike is an infallible guide to Freemasonry and every word he says must be taken as literal truth.

Why do you have this crusade to turn Freemasonry into some kind of church?

Albert Mackey says in the Encyclopaedia of Freemasonry, "The religion of Masonry is non-sectarian. It admits men of every creed within its hospitable bosom. It is not Judaism, though there is nothing to offend the Jew. It is not Christianity, but there is nothing in it repugnant to the faith of a Christian.

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This does not say "Freemasonry is a religion." It is using "religion of Freemasonry" to refer to those traits that distinguish it as a non-sectarian organization. The "religion of the US government" is entirely non-sectarian as well, since it has no religion. Do you contend that the US government is a religion.

Mackey further argues, "Look at its ancient landmarks, its sublime ceremonies, its profound symbols and allegories - all inculcating religious doctrine, commanding religious observances, and teaching religious truth, and who can deny that it is eminently a religious institution...? Masonry then, is indeed a religious institution; and on this ground mainly, if not alone, should then religious Mason defend it."

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I see, so then, Mackey is an infallible guide to Freemasonry and every word he says must be taken as literal truth.

Why do you have this crusade to turn Freemasonry into some kind of church?

Maybe you should just openly demand that all Christians, Jews, and Muslims be EXPELLED from Freemasonry, since that's what you really want to happen.

I have been flatly told at my Lodge that Freemasonry is not a religion. FLATLY TOLD THAT! Are you telling me that former Grand Lodge officials are liars?

It is obvious that you are desperate to get everyone to "admit" that Freemasonry is a religion. Why is that? What deep-seated need in your life is not being met so that you have to pretend that Freemasonry is a religion (and that it Christians shouldn't be allowed in Freemasonry)? What is the real issue you refuse to face?

jamie.guinn said:

Very good points. The thing about freemasonry is it's a personal journey. Some take it a lot further than others.

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Ah, so those who do not consider Freemasonry to be a religion just aren't as deep and true Freemasons as those who do.

BryanMaloney said:

"I see, so then, Pike is an infallible guide to Freemasonry and every word he says must be taken as literal truth."

"Why do you have this crusade to turn Freemasonry into some kind of church?"

"Maybe you should just openly demand that all Christians, Jews, and Muslims be EXPELLED from Freemasonry, since that's what you really want to happen."

"I have been flatly told at my Lodge that Freemasonry is not a religion. FLATLY TOLD THAT! Are you telling me that former Grand Lodge officials are liars?"

"It is obvious that you are desperate to get everyone to "admit" that Freemasonry is a religion. Why is that? What deep-seated need in your life is not being met so that you have to pretend that Freemasonry is a religion (and that it Christians shouldn't be allowed in Freemasonry)?"

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I really didn't read Bro. Jamie's post that way. He did clearly challenge the statement that Freemasonry is not a religion, which I have been taught is absolutely true. He also showed by example, that there are those, such as Pike and Mackey, who described it as such (according to their understanding of what that means). That certainly does not prove that Freemasonry is a religion (I still hold that it is not), but it does demonstrate that different people may have different opinions of the question, depending on their perspective.

I certainly don't think that he was suggesting that Christians, Jews, and Muslims be expelled - I certainly hope not. Even if you expelled just the Christians, we would have a hard time getting enough guys to open the lodge. I also don't think that he is calling anyone a liar. My Grand Lodge has also stated the position clearly that Freemasonry is not a religion. The fact that someone may disagree with that doesn't make it a Grand Lodge of liars, but one that does not share the same opinion. A difference of opinion doesn't mean that one person believes the other to be lying. I am a statistician who works with epidemiologists. Many of them are of the opinion that p-values are useless statistics that do more to obscure the nature of the data than enlighten, and that confidence intervals should always be used in their place. I believe that p-values can be extremely useful tools in a defined set of circumstances with clearly articulated assumptions. We strongly disagree with each other on a very basic tool that we use in our work together. No one is saying that the other is lying, and no one is trying to get the other kicked off the research team. We have different perspectives on the same issue, and each perspective can find ample support among some very respected voices in the literature. None of us would claim, however, that any of those voices are infallible. Well, except maybe for Ken Rothman. Many epidemiologists consider him infallible. He is certainly influential. He may be the Mackey of epidemiology.

Admarcus,

Thank you... You caught what was saying. I have Bryan on ignore so I wasn't aware of his post. I don't think Christians or anyone else should be expelled, but I already told him that, though he's convinced I have some secret agenda.

I wanted to point out that whether freemasonry can be called a religion has already been a long debate. And certainly anyone can make it a religion unto themselves. It isn't my religion, but I have no need for it to be either/or.

jamie.guinn said:

Frank C.Higgins maintains: “It is true that Freemasonry is the parent of all religions” (Ancient Freemasonry p. 10)

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BINGO!
What is more common in science than the desire to know or discover the unknown about the universe?
What is more common in religion than the desire to know or discover the unknown about mans relationship to the universe?
Geometry teaches us that by studying the universe we can discover our relationship to the universe.
Geometry is a science. Freemasonry is a science. The study of science can lead one to the knowledge of God.

jamie.guinn said:

33rd Degree Freemason Norman Vincent Peale, says: “I consider Masonry to be the purest form of religion on earth” (Masonic Monitor, May 1992 pg.17).

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admarcus1 said:

I really didn't read Bro. Jamie's post that way.

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In another thread Bro Jamie mentioned that he had passed through a phase of being a fundamentalist in one of the sects that condemns Masonry. I figure that memory has left him with something that might be called "mental indigestion" on the topic and he's trying to work his way through the topic. I see it as more similar to him treating this forum in part like group therapy than like him taking the side of antis for the sake of argument.

My normal approach to antis is to point out how they are nuts, pray for their mental healing and to recommend avoiding contact to avoid getting cooties from them. Seeing Bro Jamie as a cured former nut, probably not all that helpful to him in his current situation.

Maybe it's something like PSTD to get over, folks treat that by telling their story again and again until it gets old and toothless to them as the story teller. Like having a tire with a bump and fixing it by wearing out the bump on a long road trip.

Dfreybur,

Lol, actually a pretty good assessment. In my neck of the woods fundamentalism and biblical literalism is pretty typical... there is a reason they call us the buckle of the Bible Belt.

I guess this is sort of a little therapy for me, though I hate for it to be such. And I have to admit its hard to see Christianity outside of the way I lived it for 12 years. So when I presented the original question it was more or less a way for me to see how my Christian brothers make the leap and help broaden my own perspective.

I never would have thought I would end up being accused as having a secret agenda of getting all Christians expelled from masonry in some grand conspiracy. Because getting on a message board totally makes sense to make that happen. Or I could have just got in contact with my satan worshipping lizard alien illuminati friends instead.

jamie.guinn said:

Or I could have just got in contact with my satan worshipping lizard alien illuminati friends instead.

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In Star Trek fandom we call those Gorn. I've never seen a Gorn at lodge. The rumor mill says they are all atheists and that's why. Contact them all you like, it looks like as atheists they are irrelevant to Masonry. ;^)

Trying to prove that Christianity is incompatible with Freemasonry and refusing to take the word of Brothers, given in good faith, that it is compatible with Freemasonry, brothers who are both Freemasons and Christians is good reason to conclude that someone does not want Christians to be Freemasons.

Saw this blog post on Freemason Information. The take away for me and a good point that though freemasonry could be classified as a "religion" it CANNOT be classified as a "faith"... a subtle distinction but very important.

Freemasonry: the religion of not being a religion
http://freemasoninformation.com/2014/07/freemasonry-the-religion-of-not-being-a-religion/

Sigh...
"Is <insert religion here> compatible with Freemasonry?" is a question that can not be answered. We don't (or shouldn't) make such judgements. We ask one question about belief of our candidates and that doesn't include any specifics about the form or practice of that belief. There is no "proof" to be had.

The question, "Is Freemasonry compatible with <insert religion here>?" is one that we (the institutional "we") likewise can not answer. "We" are not an authority on any given religion, much less on the subtle and highly personal interpretations any given believer may have. For the Brother who is struggling with some such conflict, the best we can do is act as a sounding board for his thinking, and as a "fact checker" for the all-too-common cases where some ill-informed relative, friend, or clergy is twisting the facts about Freemasonry. But when it comes right down to it, the question of how one must comport one's self with regard to the doctrine of his chosen religion is a matter of faith. We can not, should not, be making that for any of our Brothers.

jamie.guinn said:

The take away for me and a good point that though freemasonry could be classified as a "religion" it CANNOT be classified as a "faith"... a subtle distinction but very important.

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I find that most people, Freemasons included, can do a much better job of defining religion than they can of defining Freemasonry. The definition of Freemasonry that I would give you today is drastically different than the one I would have given you even five years ago.

There are people who practice their religions philosophically and those who practice their philosophies religiously.
There are men within the ranks of the Freemasonic Organization who are no exception to these practices in any way.
Because of whom they are, each of them will take Freemasonry as he chooses to and each of them will see it as he takes it.

Is Freemasonry A Religion? Who cares? Why is it SO important to even ask this question? What possibly important meaning do you assign to your involvement in the order by answering this for yourself? Does the answer provide what you want and need from your involvement or does Freemasonry do that regardless of your response? Even if you chose to respond, why would you truly care what other people think if it is viewed one way or another by you?

Two groups wish to classify Freemasonry as a religion: Those who wish to destroy Freemasonry and those who have no religion of their own and try to make Freemasonry their substitute.